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Re: [compost_tea] Teeth Grinding
Having read Elain's post below, I retract my earlier post about ignoring
the bastards! Thank you Elain.
Seems like the soilsoup and growingsolutions machines would be great for
breeding e-coli! Probably someone is going to get seriously sick one
day from using them.
Lynton
soilfoodweb@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff -
>
> I have shown Ed Neff and Jerry Erickson the data that prove the
> SoilSoup machine doesn't make compost tea. Their response was to
> start a campaign with their distributors to say that fungi don't grow
> in compost tea.
>
> So, I demonstrated that fungi DO grow in compost tea.
>
> So then they told their distributors that fungi aren't important in
> compost tea.
>
> So now we're showing just how important fungi are in occupying leaf
> surfaces and keeping the "bad guy" fungi from getting a foothold on
> the leaf or root surface.
>
> So now Ed Neff tells people that you can hold your tea for any length
> of time without aeration and it doesn't hurt anything.
>
> I think Ed got this point of view from a graduate student from Oregon
> State University. In Steve's thesis he brewed some anaerobic teas
> that ON PLATE COUNT MEDIA, showed inhibition of pathogens.
>
> Any chance those toxic compounds would also inhibit and kill plant
> cells? Any chance those toxic compounds would also kill the
> beneficial organisms on the plant surfaces? Not a thought on the part
> of the University folk he was working with that this might be the
> case.
>
> These are TOXIC compounds being produced in anaerobic conditions.
> They are no different from any other pesticide.
>
> But you don't know what toxins you are dealing with, or in what
> concentration.
>
> It is sad that we have to go through this, but neither SoilSoup nor
> Growing Solutions wants to hear that their machines only make
> bacterial tea. They try to defend their products by trying to
> marginalize me. But no matter what they may or may not say about me,
> when those machines go anaerobic, we're talking about some serious
> toxins being produced.
>
> So, the best thing is if everyone who reads this makes sure that this
> message gets out.
>
> The message:
>
> 1. Neither SoilSoup nor Growing Solutions make compost tea machines.
>
> 2. They make bacterial tea machines, and you can't expect the same
> benefits from bacterial tea that you can get from aerobic compost
> tea.
> 3. You may well be dealing with some nasty compounds being made in
> anaerobic, bacterial tea machines, no better, and maybe worse, than
> any other pesticide.
>
> Can you get some benefits from bacterial tea? Sure. You can kill
> things, outright kill things, with those solutions. If the toxic
> material in an anaerobic tea is low enough to kill pathogens but not
> the plant cells, you'll see some interesting effects.
>
> But what is the cut off where the toxins go from not-killing plant
> cells to killing plant cells? Do either SoilSoup or Growing Solutions
> monitor that? They don't seem to even have a clue what dangers exist
> if the teas go seriously anaerobic.
>
> Will the USDA or FDA recognize this problem? Some really nasty
> bacteria can start growing in anaerobic bacterial tea - bacteria like
> Clostridium botulinum. Talk about dangerous!
>
> So, can everyone undertake the mission to let everyone know what the
> problems are here? Call up the nurseries and distributors that sell
> these potentially anaerobic materials, and explain the potential
> problems. At least if the people selling the machines understand what
> they need to be saying to their clients, maybe we can save the
> situation.
>
> What is it that needs to be said? Anaerobic tea can make some
> seriously toxic materials. Yes, those materials can kill plant
> pathogens, but they can also kill plants, and could be harmful to
> people. Increase the aeration in the machines so the anaerobic
> bacteria that make those toxic compounds do not grow. Make sure the
> teas stay aerobic. Make sure the beneficial fungi grow in the tea, as
> well as beneficial aerobic bacteria.
>
> Doesn't aerobic tea also make toxic compounds? No. The mechanisms
> for aerobic tea to prevent diseases is entirely different. Read the
> information on the ICTC website. They have a good explaination of how
> aerobic compost tea works.
>
> You cannot hold bacterial teas for any length of time without
> aeration.
>
> If you hold bacterial tea more than a few hours without aeration, you
> have to add 3% phosphoric acid to stop anaerobic metabolism. You then
> kill half the species present in the tea, but that's better than
> making something that can harm people.
>
> Can we all work to shut down this problem before it gets out-of-hand?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Elaine
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> www.soilfoodweb.com
> SFI Oregon, USA
> SFI Australia
> SFI New York
> SFI Europe
> SFI New Zealand
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