e coli (was --Re: [compost_tea] Re: Molasses as fungal food)

From: Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:27:12 -0800

It is my understanding that e. coli need higher temps and anaerobic conditi=
ons to grow. If I keep the temperature around 70 F (I know it is cretinous=
 of me to use Faren. temps but. . .) and provide O2, e coli growth is inhib=
ited because the beneficial bacteria outcompete the e coli for available re=
sources. I also understand (maybe incorrectly) that under the correct cond=
itions, e coli (which are generally smaller) can even be digested by other =
bacteria.

I don't see where molasses (or any other sugar) have a direct effect unless=
 other criteria (temp, O2) are met.

Ted Peterson
Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:31 AM
  Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Molasses as fungal food


  Ted -

  Both bacteria and fungi increase in biomass, or GROW, in the tea. (Stric=
tly speaking, fungi don't reproduce in actively aerated compost tea - that =
is, they don't produce spores of any kind within 24 hours in stirred liquid=
s. Picky point, but I am an academic. Bacteria can reproduce quite rapidl=
y in tea).

  Both bacteria and fungi have to be extracted from the compost.

  It depends on the growth conditions you provide whether bacteria will be =
better able to grow, or fungi better able to grow.

  Fungi typically need a bit more help in tea than the bacteria. Beneficia=
l fungi need a surface to attach to. Most bacteria do not.

  Molasses at LOW concentration help bacteria grow. At HIGH molasses conce=
ntrations, you CAN select for fungi, as long as the other conditions I ment=
ioned are also present.

  Certainly, high concentrations of molasses are not the best way to help t=
he fungi. But the focus on molasses goes back to some poor science that wa=
s done a year or so ago, and adopted by the Compost Task Force of the NOSB,=
 that said molasses causes human pathogens to grow. Molasses doesn't cause=
 E. coli to grow to a greater extent than it causes ANY bacterium that can =
use molasses to grow. Nothing selective about molasses for only E. coli gr=
owth!

  so, we did some experiments that show thatshow that molasses does not cau=
se E. coli to grow. If you don't have E. coli in the compost, E. coli will=
 not grow. If you have some E. coli, low concentrations of molasses does n=
ot cause E. coli to grow. Really high concentrations of molasses will inhi=
bit E. coli, and prevent its growth. Careful there, though. I said growth=
. Not presence. Even the reviewers of the scientific paper didn't get tha=
t straight in the first review.

  But regardless of past history, what you are doing is learning the condit=
ions, with your brewing machine, that result in the organism mix best for y=
our plants and soils.

  Sounds like you are doing a great job!

  Elaine Ingham
  President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
  SFI Corvallis, OR
  SFI Port Jefferson, NY
  SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
  SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
  SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
  www.soilfoodweb.com

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Received on Mon Nov 03 2003 - 16:57:11 EST

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