Re: [compost_tea] Compost Tea Mud/Sludge

From: Anthony <boofq_at_wn.com.au>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 06:26:11 +0800

Instrument is a Windaus (labortechnik) - WinLab Data Line Oxygen-Meter (DO)=
    www.windaus.de
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Robert Norsen
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Compost Tea Mud/Sludge


  Anthony - you have very impressive DO2 plots. I have never seen any so c=
learly made.
  Tell me what instrument you are using ?.

  As for the data. We made some runs with 1 hour and longer. The 1 hour p=
roved to have less, much less, bio content than brews at 2 hours and longer=
.

  Two clues to my 2 to 6 hour conclusion:
  1) It takes some time for water and not too gentle "percolation" to softe=
n the bacterial slime that holds bacterial and fungi in place. Only after =
this softeninig period would 'percolation' activity of the water separate t=
he microbess from the course compost materials.
  2) About 80 to 90% of the compost volume becomes desireable suspended mat=
ter in the ACT after 2 to 6 hours of 'percolation'. And this is not in a b=
ag where percolation is reduced by the bag. This is in an extraction chamb=
er where the compost is subject to direct violent action of a torrent of r=
ising mixed size bubbles. Bubbles that actually pump approx a hundred gal=
lons of water thru the extraction chamber every minute.

  Sludge on the bottom? That is the heavy fines that contain many of the m=
icrobes attached to what was compost particles. If left there veery long, =
yes they will stink. It is vital to get air and circulation to move all th=
at into suspension. that is why I recomend movein our air from the extract=
or to the bottom of the container early in the cycle. There are other ways =
to do this that add some cost.

  Looking at your curves. Where the bag was left in the microbe content of=
 your ACT was high enough to use more O2 than you had available. ( Microbes=
 IN the bag also use DO2) Your ACT went severely anarobic for several hour=
s. After the food was gone and the microbes died, ate each other, became =
dormant, DO2 use went low enough to re-establish higher DO2 levels. This w=
ould be "excellent" ACT if your O2 system was able to induce maybe three ti=
mes as much air ? .

  Your second curve where you took the bag out had few enough microbes so y=
our air system was able to keep D O2 ahead of microbe demand. This may be =
the better tea in this case only because it didn't run out of O2. Probably=
 "In good range".

  The other would have had many times the bacteria, fungi and protozoa if i=
t had had enough O2 to meet demand. Would have tested "Excellent".

  Yes your plants may like either ACT. I'm convincrd plants are even more =
friendly than dogs. They wag, nod, blossom, bear, taste good if we give em=
 any chance

  Do I know all about this stuff? Nope. Still learning. Bob
  Anthony <boofq_at_wn.com.au> wrote:
    Bob- you say 'Extraction is 95% completed in the first 2 to 6 hours'. D=
o you have data on this as I beg to differ. I am of the persuasion that pro=
vided the movement within the extraction bag/container is suffice, most of =
the extraction of organisms and nutrients will occur well before the hour i=
s up and more than likely within the first few minutes. As soon as the grea=
sy humus feel has gone from the compost that went in to the brew, all the c=
ritters are in solution doing their thing and the bag can be removed. Sludg=
e, left for along period of time is bound to harbor anaerobes. Attached, I =
have two DO curves for two separate brews, both with the same recipe, almos=
t same temp, the only difference was the bag was left in the brewing vessel=
 for at least 10 hrs, the other had the bag taken out at about the 45min ma=
rk. I know which curve I like!. And no I didnt have each one tested, but bo=
th s melled good after the brew had finished and after an overnight siesta =
in a jar with the lid on. I'd put money on the one that went to zero just e=
nded up with high bacteria and low or no fungi. I still put it on my plants=
 and they didnt seems to mind.
    If there is enough energy moving thru the chamber, the organisms are go=
ing to set sail early on in the piece and multiply and continue to multiply=
 and grow until all the food has gone. My bag holds inxs of 12kgs of compos=
t and I know even though the solution in the brewer is rolling around like =
a ten foot swell, the center of that bag is seeing very little of it.(when =
its not being agitated). So why not take it out!
    It is very hard to draw a conclusion from this info as there is just to=
o many variables to deal with. Was the compost the same?was the tank cleane=
d properly?does a difference of 3 degrees C mean that much?did moon opp Sat=
urn have an effect? Who knows, but it makes you think about it doesnt it!
    cheers
    AQ




    -You have to look at what you see
    ----- Original Message -----
      From: Robert Norsen
      To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 2:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Compost Tea Mud/Sludge


      Sbould I tell you this on List or off? It applies to all Bob' brewer=
s and from what I gather it may apply to many others and some home builts. =
So I will let all who don't want to read it hit Delete, NOW!!
       The "Chamber" is really and extraction chamber. It is somewnat like=
 a basket but much more active, drawing water in, exerting very active extr=
action and then pumping the water out. It is intended to act as an extract=
or for part of the cycle. Extraction is 95% completed in the first 2 to 6 =
hours. Time depends on the "solubility" of the compost. After that the wate=
r flowing in thru the screen and out thru the screen, tends to collect fung=
i fiber both in and out. .For that reason I advise removing the extractor c=
hamber early in the cycle, return the aeration probe to the bottom of the c=
ontainer, off to one side so the rising bubbles will create circulation acr=
oss the bottom, up and around and down. .The aeration prob needs a weight =
to stay at the bottom. I have begun to add a weight in the form of a 8" x =
3/8" iron rod inside the aeration tube. Some find clamping a weight to the=
 outside is more convenien t.

      In tests run early in developement, SFI found this sludge was very ri=
ch in fungi. By keeping it suspended in rapidly circulationg, well aerated=
 water, the fungi thrive. Next trick is to not have such course particulate=
s that they plug the application system.

       Filter? The ACT? Rather not filter. Filters take out long slender =
fungi that lay across the filter bars even if they would go thru the nozzle=
. Rather let the ACT settle for 5 minutes quietly. The really heavy "rock=
s" will fall out rapidly. Then take the ACT off an inch above the bottom o=
f the container. Use course nozzles, apply in rather large droplets. The =
bottom 1" of ACT ? Put it on your favorite plant with a bucket - or let it=
 inoculate the next brew if you are going to go again. ( Don't dump chlorin=
ated water on it.) or mix it into your compost. It may be the best part =
of each brew.

      About your question in your former message, Judi, Would ACT be a good=
 dormant spray? Applied in the fall and on warm winter days, like it will =
be tomorrow in your area, 50+ F , would the bacteria and fungi be effective=
 - eating the mite ( eggs?) and other hazards waiting on your trees? Do a=
ny of your members have the "spirit" to apply ACT this time of the year to =
find out? Maybe on just some fo their trees? Both Sat. and Sunday are sup=
posed to be warm this week end. Maybe I will try it here in West Seattle. =
 I remember days in February in Minnesota when it got to 50+F. Would it be=
 effective instead of the usual oil and sulfur? I would like to think ACT =
might be the universal magic !! Bob

      Judi Stewart <js_at_olympus.net> wrote: ( Note below)
        How do you all deal with the mud/sludge on the bottom
        of the brewers? Do you keep it moving in
        the brewer?

        Why don't I leave the compost in solution without the
        chamber and direct all the air to the bottom of the
        brewer, always keeping the compost in motion and in solution? The =
reason you don't do this, Judy is that the much more active extraction cham=
ber is more effective to extract the bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematode=
s from the compost than the placid water action the same air would create i=
n the larger container. And then even if the extraction was good enough in =
the chamber, now you have to filter the ACT as it leaves the container. so =
you lose fungi whose fibers are most suseptable too being caught by any fil=
ter. Just think about it. Fine invisible fiber that would go thru any nozzl=
e stands a good chance of being hung up over the bars of a filter.

        Coming next from Bob will be a screen that will not hang up the fib=
ers. This will be availabe to retrofit your BobO & Bitti, Judi. And anyone=
 elses. Probably most home builts and most other commercial brewers too.

        Can we test for effectivity at SFI.Elaine? Bob =
 

        Thank you,
        Judi









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> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/vnd.ms-excel name=DO curves.xls



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Received on Sat Jan 10 2004 - 19:03:16 EST

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