Re: [compost_tea] same recipe - compost free in water
----- Original Message -----
From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] same recipe - compost free in water
There are some pumps that do not reduce organism numbers, or perhaps the =
more precise statement is, some pumps in the place and way they are configu=
red do not reduce organism biomass or activity.
Don't ask me which ones. The testing was done on someone else's dime, an=
d they don't want the information shared. And I'm not enough of an enginee=
r to be able to make generalizations about types of pumps.
>>> I have tried 5 different pumps set up differently. The ones that sho=
w the least damage are made by Wayne and they are the least expensive. I g=
ot one used at the WWPT plant that costs about $400 and is submersible. It=
uses some kind of induction system without an impellor or rotor but the en=
d results were not any more satisfactory using this model. I tried some bi=
g pumps for moving wines and tried a medical pump but none showed markedly =
better results than the Wayne's I tried. I did use one that was gas driven=
and needed lubrication but this pump totally destroyed the tea.
2. Any sprayer using fresh water to dilute the spray causes a shift in =
osmotic pressure and many bugs die from that. The action of the spray also=
shreds any fungi and kills some of the bacteria.
You should not make generalizations of this nature. Survival on addition=
to water depends on the quality of the fresh water, and what is in the "fr=
esh" water. Many fresh waters have enough hardness that there is no loss o=
f organism biomass or activity.
>>> Well, you are probably right. After I examined the result of the spra=
yer, I added fresh water to a sample drop by drop and watched the bugs. At=
a certain point which, using the drop methods I was using, I extimated to =
be roughly 50% I started seeing cellular membrans disrupt. It happend the =
three times I tested. The water was dechlorinated (aerated for 24+ hours) =
filtered tap water. No softened water. I took salinity readings of the te=
a using a bobbing salinometer used in salt water aquariums and compared it =
to the salinity of the fresh water. At least in my case, the tea (brewed w=
ith the same water) registered higher salinity than the tap water. I start=
ed reading about cellular membrane disruption in microorganisms and that in=
dication seemed to indicate that rapid changes in osmotic pressure resulted=
in membrane disruption. When I added a very small amount of ammonia sulfa=
te to the tap water, I did not see the same level of disruption. I tested t=
hree times with this also and got similar results.
Many sprayers do not shred fungi. In fact, most sprayers do not shred th=
e fungi. The critical factor appearst to be the nozzle configuration, and,=
again the pump.
>>> I probably miswrote here. With all sprayers I tested, the fungal mas=
s was made smaller after spraying. They didn't kill the fungi but broke th=
e fungal mass apart. These smaller parts still amounted to roughtly the sa=
me mass just in a different form. Overall, the mass was smaller and this c=
ould be because of dilution or destruction. I'm not 100% sure which.
3. Bacterial/fungal mass after spraying -- of the types of sprayers we =
tried -- was disrupted. However, enough was foliar applied to get results.=
That's why testing what ends up on the leaf is the most useful measure. =
If you get adequate coverage with bacteria and fungi, then the fact you may=
have lost some critters to get there doesn't matter.
4. After spray with dilution, the dimunition of biomass was in proportion=
to the dilution.
Dilution is not the appropriate way to talk about this. You need to think=
in gallons per ac applied, or in gallons per 100 sq feet. If I stand and =
spray 5 gallons onto one spot, it doesn't matter how much water I used duri=
ng that time, it matters how many critters end up on the leaf.
Water is just the carrier. Figure that you need to get coverage. Water =
isn't the important point, it's how much tea actually hit the surface.....
>>> Yes, you are of course right. However, I am talking about a fixed ma=
ss in the tea being diluted in a tank then sprayed. After I did my analyis=
is, I brewed more tea and diluted less. I ended up with approximately a 50=
% ratio of tea to water. The sprayer moved once through each row.
The organisms use the glue that they make to protect from UV. So I doubt=
it was the UV that killed the critters on the leaf surface. Dust. Air po=
llution. Pesticide drift. That's what kill the organisms on leaf surfaces=
most of the time.
>>> Could be dust, heat or lack of food. My reading and the people testi=
ng (a very good lab on the vinyard) seemed to think it was UV and they had =
some tests to prove it when I cried foul. There might be pesticide drift b=
ut unlikely since none was sprayed anywhere near where we were working. It=
seemed to occur vinyard wide but we had them on a three day cycle anyway s=
o the program worked. My reading seems to indicate that UV is bad for micr=
obes. Am I reading something wrong? The microbiology texts I have read in=
dicate that UV is the best antibacterial there is. What am I misinterpreti=
ng?
The bottom line seems to be that any transfer method kills some of the =
biomass and some of the protozoa. UV wipes out bacterial fungal population=
s within 72 hours but probably sooner if the conditions are correct.
Lack of plant nutrition probably also plays a part - if the plant is heal=
thy, then the plant should be feeding the organisms. Un-healthy plant - ma=
ybe no food.
>>> Ok. I'm dying to know. On a leaf, how is the plant feeding the bact=
eria/fungi?
We generally turn compost way too much for microarths to want to hang aro=
und, or for nematodes to want to reproduce. So compost is usually lacking =
in these critters. Except for Mark Sturges' worm compost, of course! Worm=
compost is more likely to have the bigger critters. .
24 hours isn't long enough for nematodes or microarths to reproduce, so t=
hey won't grow in the tea.
>>> I shouldn't have written in a way that seemed to indicate they grow i=
n the tea. I haven't seen nematode growth or don't recognize it even in te=
as that brew for 72 hours. I have seen them though. Now this is interesti=
ng because if I test at the beginning, I see few and I see more after about=
24 hours. Maybe it's that they are moving out of the compost looking for =
food or that as the bacteria grow and send out enzymes to feed, the nematod=
es respond. I'm not sure yet.
You were seeing insect larvae.
>>> Yeah, I finally figured it out. What I was pointing out was that t=
heir bodies withstood the process but they did not live generally. I was u=
nsure what exactly killed them in the process.
Vorticella and Volvox (the stalked ciliates typical in soil or compost) r=
elate more to anaerobic conditions, stagnant situations. Manures are gener=
ally anaerobic, so can have many stalked ciliates. But many other conditio=
ns also result in high numbers.
>>> I may be off here but I have pumped tons of air into my tea and these=
stalked cilliates grow like crazy if they are there. They look like Greek=
urns on a string and every once in a while spring back. Around their mout=
hs is an eddy of circulating water. They are cool to watch.
>>> Ted Peterson
>>> Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth
Received on Wed Mar 17 2004 - 18:19:35 EST
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