Re: [compost_tea] Another type chamber, Ted

From: Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:34:46 -0700

Good. Stick with what works for you. I have free suspension systems up to=
 1000G running just fine. You know, this isn't a right or wrong yet. We d=
on't have enough definitive data to say: "This is right and this is the wro=
ng way." I give my experience based on a lot of experimentation. If you w=
ant to use a chamber, please do so. If you want to use a bag, please do so=
. It doesn't much matter to me as long as you get good results. I've got =
a WWTP who wants to build a 5000G based on free suspension -- by the way, a=
ll aerobic biodigesters are free suspension and one of the things that happ=
ens in that system is growth of bacteria.

Anyway, if it works for you, stick with it. I found in tests that my syste=
ms get better results when I analyze the plants and soil. So I will stick =
with my methods and tell people my experience. People are smart enough to =
figure it out when they start using the systems.

Ted Peterson
EW/SOE
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Anthony Quinlan
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Another type chamber, Ted


  I would like to throw my two cents in here.
  After spending a month on the US west coast in march. I saw pretty much e=
verything there could be seen with respect to ACT from San Francisco to Sea=
ttle.

  From the small KIS to the big mac of BOB's 2500G trailer set up and every=
 thing in between, I've now had a fair time digesting what I saw.

  At the end of the day the ideal scenario would be to have the compost fre=
e running in solution, this is what I started to do and learnt the hard way=
. I've have a 5G KIS and still put the compost in free, its an excellent ma=
chine and very effective for a garden situation, but for a 500 acre vineyar=
d you have to be practical.

  On a small scale- no problem you can easy de-clogg your watering can or w=
hatever, but like many here I am about large scale applications and filteri=
ng is just not the way to go about it -
  1. its a pain in the rear and
  2. your going to take out much of what your after- fungi.

  without blowing Bob's trumpet too loud, I believe his chamber system is a=
wesome. A lot of work has gone into his technique and in terms of practical=
ty its probably the most efficient I've come across.

  AQ


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Robert Norsen
    To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:51 PM
    Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Another type chamber, Ted


    Ted - excuse me but the chamber you described is a dead chamber where t=
here is little air being introduced to keep the stuffed, soaked mud chamber=
 from becoming anaerobic and where there is some washing action on the outs=
ide of this perforated cylinder.
       
    You compare that with your "open kettle" system where you put the nutri=
ents and compost in loose, stir it with air, then filter the compost from t=
he tea at the end of the brew cycle. I think your system is a big improveme=
nt over the two systems you describe. Yes I am very familiar with those sys=
tems. Yours is better.

    Now imagine a chamber where the compost and nutients are in a chamber w=
ith enough room and in water so they are free to move. Now introduce air i=
n the bottom to induce violent bubble action in the compost/water mix. Now=
 let the rising bubbles pump water in near the bottom thru a screen/ filte=
r and out thru a screen/filter near the top. retaining the compost but wash=
ing the microbes into the TEA. In this very active "washing" chamber the a=
ction is enough to keep most of the filter area "washed open' The freedom =
of action is like your open kettle method but much more intense. It cleans=
 the compost so that wood chips that go in covered with hard-to-remove surf=
ace of microbes become "polished", clean within an hour. Less compost is ne=
eded since all the life on the compost is removed to the TEA it. The life =
and soft particulate on the compost is removed to the tea where it circula =
tes lazily in the high nutrient laden water with a high DO2 condition impos=
ed by the many cubic feet of air pumped thru the extractor chamber every mi=
nute.

    This system was designed 7 years ago to escape the bag and chamber sys=
tems then on the market and to remove the centrifugal pump the little guys =
were subjected to every 3 to 5 minutes all thru the brew process.

    Over 7 years, out of many hundred users, scattered all over the world, =
 Ted, you told me of one who doesn't like this system. You won't and they =
haven't identified themselves or described their problem so I can't know wh=
at they found wrong. If they would let me know the problem I might be able=
 to correct it. It bothers the heck out of me to have a dissatisfied custo=
mer.

    We have a hundred or so SFI reports. As do some independent testers. =
Paul Sachs has made a great independent series of tests at the N Y SFI labs=
. He recorded them and he presents them in an easily read chart at his web =
site, www.norganics.com

    I wish I could tell you the name of this amazingly effective yet simple=
, inexpensive bewer system.and about the wide range of capacity it comes in=
 but advertizing is verboten on the list - Maybe Sunday I can reveal those =
details Bob

    Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net> wrote:
      I did desting with a bunch of different filters and even using panty =
hose. I looked at biomass because I don't have the ability to distinguish =
different fungi. So I sampled before I filtered and after and made slides.=
  I found the most reduction in biomass using panty hose yet there was stil=
l enough to work because that method was used on a vinyard and we did get d=
isease suppression. I think the recommendation is 5% fungi by volume or so=
mething close to that for foliar application and that was about what we end=
ed up with by my estimates. I bought different grades of agricultural filte=
rs. These are bags that come in different mesh. I think Steve posted a ha=
ndy conversion table. I just bought sizes from 200 which is small to 1000 =
which is quite large. They guy who sold me the bags asked what i was doing=
 with them and he said that three layers of window screen would allow the s=
maller pieces and fungi through and keep out t he larger pieces. He said 3=
 layers of screen compared to about 300 - 500 mesh. He recommended a bunch=
 of different ways to filter.

      Here is what I did:

      I built a frame out of pvc. I used 1/2 inch pvc pipe and flexible ho=
se that fit into the 1/2 inch fittings. The frame had two legs with T-conn=
ectors at the bottom and quad-connectors 18 inches above that. The flex ho=
se was connected to the frame had two legs and round plastic circles at the=
 bottom and at 18 inches that were perpendicular to the legs. The circles =
were a little smaller than the diameter of the bags (_at_ 10 inches diameter).=
  I got a soaker head which is a metal cylinder with holes in it and cleane=
d out the insides that are filled with a foam filter. I wrapped three laye=
rs of window screen around it and tie-wrapped them in place.

      Before I filter, I insert the frame into the bag then positon the soa=
ker head which is connected through a standard 5/8 inch hose to my Wayne ex=
traction pump inside the bag about to the bottom of the bag. I can pump ab=
out 150 gallons before the organic and other matter build up on the filter =
surface. Shaking it up and down knocks most of it off. If any get through=
 to the soaker head, I simply shake it in the brew and it comes right off. =
 The reason I use the frame is to give the suction head the largest possibl=
e area to extract the tea through.

      When I work this way, I get about a 10 to 20% reduction in biomass af=
ter filtering. To me, that is an acceptable loss considering that the free=
 suspension method extracts far more fungi, in my experiments, that any bag=
 or chamber system. I determined this by using the exact same compost in t=
he exact same amounts and the exact same volume of water with the exact sam=
e nutrients and brewing for the exact same amount of time using the differe=
nt systems. In my experiments:

      1. Bag systems were the least successful. Silt buildup on the bottom=
 of the brewer was noticible but not extreme depending on the compost. Aera=
tion was very difficult because air had to get into the center of the bag t=
o stop anaerobic conditions
      2. Chamber systems were more successful than bags but as the filter b=
ecame clogged effeciency and extraction dropped. Silt buildup here was sig=
nificant enough to promote anaerobic conditions on the bottom rather quickl=
y. Aeration was more difficult because like bags, air had to get into the =
compost in the center of the chamber.
      3. Free suspension and direct aeration that keeps the compost suspend=
ed produced the greatest biomass and ran the longest before anaerobic condi=
tions took over.

      Anaerobic conditions occurred in bag and chamber systems before free =
suspension systems however, eventually all became anaerobic over time.

      Ted Peterson
      EW/SOE


      ----- Original Message -----
        From: Mike Harvey
        To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:40 PM
        Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Parts for tea brewers


        How do you filter out all the compost particles without filtering o=
ut the fungi??
        Mike Harvey
          From: Ted Peterson


          If you are using linear air pumps and doing no mechanical aeratio=
n (impellers and such) why don't you do away with the bag and dump the comp=
ost directly into the water? I have been doing this for two years with my =
brewers and have great results. Plant assays and soil tests confirm my tea=
 is working as it should or better.

          Ted Peterson
          EW/SOE
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: savenmoney
            To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:44 AM
            Subject: [compost_tea] Parts for tea brewers


            Hi I am a potato grower in Colorado and we are going to use com=
post
            tea this year to try to cut back on the chemicals we use. I ha=
ve
            bought most of my pumps, tanks and things but am having a hard =
time
            finding tea bags. Do I have to buy the mesh and then sew it in=
to a
            bag or is there a place I can buy them. Also what size mesh is=
 the
            best 20, 30, 35. I have also bought some air stones for diffus=
ers
            they are a silica diffuser made with alumina, has anybody used=
 them,
            and will they produce to small of a bubble.

            Thanks
            Justin Rogers









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Received on Fri May 21 2004 - 23:34:21 EDT

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