[compost_tea] Re: Re: USNOP non-example?

From: Kirk Leonard <kirk_at_oregonatural.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:39:49 -0700
A reply to Dave and Lloyd.

> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:17:32 -0700
> From: David Anderson <danderson_at_backpackgeartest.org>
> Subject: Re: USNOP non-example?

...snips throughout...

> I think the report was a good one and that it came to the right
> conclusions *for now*. We are, after all, talking about our food supply.
> I just wish they were as conscientious when it come to approving
> chemicals for use on our food.

I absolutely agree, Dave.  I get kinda mad, though, thinking what they've
done to ACT and manure and haven't done on chemicals.

> I really am on your side here, but I've got a lot of experience battling
> bureaucracies, and I have come to learn that there is often a good
> reason when they throw up a roadblock in the early going.

I don't disagree with this but their roadblocks on compost tea are still
over the top.  Rather than support good research on it, eveything they've
done (this is NOP - NOT NOSB, who have supported tea twice now) seems aimed
at banning it.  Richard Matthews' (NOP program manager) declaration at NOSB
meeting in Oct 2002 - "We have said no to compost tea." - took a lot of
people by surprise, I'm sure.  They have less data for their stance than we
have showing tea is beneficial and not pathogen-ridden.  How did NOP arrive
there?
...
> Why concentrate on human pathogens and manure? Because they first have
> to decide if it is safe to use it on food before they can decide if it
> helps the health of the plant. This is a good thing.

True, but NOP's behavior has told me they have another agenda.  I can only
illustrate with a little story.  The USNOP "Final Rule" made official in Oct
2002 was twelve (12) years in the making.  Manure (for husbanders) and
compost are first considerations of all organic farmers, yet NOP waits until
the last year to look at compost (vermicompost and compost tea) and then the
deadline comes, and "oops, we'll just have to do without these standards" -
there is still no such thing as vermicompost and compost tea is raw
manure...  Some growers have eliminated manures from the composts they use,
tea development has been slowed (if only because USDA hasn't funded as they
would if they wanted to), conventional ag proponents can still bad-mouth
both manure compost and tea.  Compost and teas ought to be a first priority
in any organic ag program, not the last.

I believe they have evidenced an agenda that's about banning compost tea or
at least delaying their support for it as long as possible.

> As for your mention of the sprouts, I agree with their rule 100%.
> Sprouts are only alive for a few days before consumption, so there is no
> time for pathogen die-off. They also have virtually no UV exposure.
> Pathogens on the sprouts *will* survive to be consumed.

"On" the sprouts was part of my question.  I don't think you'd use tea like
that with sprouts, but don't know, which is why I asked.  And what if your
tea tests "pathogen-free?"  Per Doc E and others, there is pathogen-free
compost out there, remember.  Why couldn't you use that with sprouts?  The
ban as I read recommendation #9 includes even teas for nutrient purposes,
and I'd sure think there is some serious benefit possible there.

> What I recommend for the next step would be to build a system, damn the
> cost, that can repeatedly deal with a pathogen overload. By overload, I
> am talking about doing something like going 50-50 compost and raw
> manure, with a good concentration of molasses added. <

I think such systems are already out there and sent a comment to NOSB
suggesting systems should be the focus of tests, not tea batches, since
ultimately what's tested (over and over and over...) is the system, so I
agree strongly here.
...
> Okay, I suppose that something like that might be over the top, but the
> point is that you have to start meeting their objections and not just
> objecting to their objections.

Ah, would that we could understand better what their objections were.  Since
we aren't privy to USNOP's deliberations, that's a toughie...  How is it a
positive NOSB tea recommendation in 2002 got turned into a negative
USNOP-edited statement that compost tea was "not eligible to satisfy" soil
fertility requirements?  Has anyone actually heard their objections?
Clearly the data doesn't support this conclusion.

> Fighting this report will get you nowhere, but *using* this report to
> increase the interest in more research is the way to get things moving.
> And don't just send the comments to the nosb, copy the message to your
> congresscritters.

Amen.

And Lloyd asked:

> >     Q. are the rules you all are discussing in relation to CT usage 1-
> >     specifically to do with organic certification?
> >     or 2 - food safety issues that will apply across all of commercial
> >     agriculture?

And Dave replied (to second question):

> Since the email address that Kirk gave was of the National Organics
> Standards Board, it seems that they are the group running this thing,
> and that their decision making ability is related only to organic
> certification.

Yes, it only applies to USNOP-certified growers, so the rest of the world
can go on no matter what, sorta.  NOSB is NOT the group running this,
though.  It's USDA & USNOP.  NOSB only "advises the Secretary" so nothing
they do or say is actually binding until USDA, specifically the Secretary of
Ag (and OMB, etc) says so.  That's why congressional and USDA contact is so
important.  Please look at the CTTF report and tell them what you think.

But the work done here will be useful across all agriculture, indeed, and if
NOP doesn't get behind compost tea, we can expect the whole would-be
industry and excellent organic practice to suffer.  Research will go
un-funded and chem-head ag will have a club to bash compost tea with.  All
the things Dave suggests needing to be done, and I don't think there are too
many doubters among us on that, will happen but only with difficulty.  We
gotta get USNOP on board and rowing with....

Gotta stop. (Whew!?)  Headed to Seattle today to spend some quality time
with a bunch of other compost tea folks at ICTC meeting!  Whoo Ya!

Kirk




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Received on Fri Jul 16 2004 - 01:17:51 EDT

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