Re: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on compost tea, November 2004

From: Jeff Young <sharkman_04101_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:14:12 -0700 (PDT)

I just wanted to add my $.02 in on the powdery mildew conversation.
 
For about 7 years now we have had the largest grower of hops in Yakima, WA using our fish hydrolysate, Organic Gem, to control powdery mildew. He does three applications a year at 3 galllons of Gem per acre. He puts this out foliar with the Gem diluted at 30:1 with water. He has about 3,000 acres of hops.
 
Four years ago he convinced the manager of the 1,7000 acre Budweiser factory hop farm to do the same thing. That manager told me that the first year he used Gem gave him the greenest crop he had seen in his 20 years of running the farm. Since the first year, they have slowly backed off of doing their regular spraying for Powdery mildew. They are down to once a year. The Yakima grower will only do a chemical spray if he sees a need for it. The Budweiser grower feels that that may be too late, and corporate makes him do at least one spray.
 
Until we met Elaine, we didn't know why this was working. The oil in the Gem works as not only a sticker for the leaf surface, but also as a fungal feed. They are getting explosive fungal growth on the leaf surface from the fish, thus out-competing the powdery mildew. Thankfully, there was enough fungal diversity there to work with in the first place.
 
I don't have the data, only their testimonials and the fact that they buy a combined 9 truckloads a year of Gem.
 
Jeff Young
President
Advanced Marine Technologies
49 Hassey Street
New Bedford, MA 02740
T: (508) 991-5225
F: (508) 991-3033
www.organicgem.org


Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net> wrote:
 Matt et al:
 
This comports with my findings. It is interesting that there are different mildew pathogens for different plants. I wasn't aware of this. It leads me to question why the vinyards so consistently use roses at the end of vine rows as mildew indicators. Do you have any information on that? In the wine growing courses taught at our local ag university, roses are promoted as mildew indicators. Instead of checking the entire row, the rose is checked. If the rose shows mildew, there is a high certainty that the grapes have mildew. I work with 5 different vinyards in somewhat different microclimates and all use roses as indicators. Maybe the mildew that attackes roses does so before the mildew that attacks vines?
 
I quote from the Rodale's: All New Encyclopedia of Organic Farming. 1992, p. 290 (Under the heading Grape). Sulfur dust or spray helps prevent disease. If you've had past problems with disease, you may want to consider a regular preventive (sic) spray program. Coat all parts of the vines, including the undersides of leaves, before symptoms appear. Apply . . . every two weeks until 4-6 weeks before harvest.
 
On the same page, it list a beetle control using Bacillus thruingiensis.
 
Ted Peterson
EW/SOE
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan, Matthew
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on compost tea, November 2004


      Hi Ted, Tom, Titel, and others.

      

      It’s been a while since I posted last, but I do still read the posts and I thought that I could shed some light on this subject of powdery mildew and compost tea. First off, you guys are talking about different pathogens. Grape powdery mildew caused by Uncinula necator, which is different from the powdery mildew on roses which is caused by Sphaerotheca pannosa. Thus you can't really compare the effects from tea on the powdery mildew on these different plants because were talking about different pathogens. Second, since powdery mildew usually prefers dry weather and does not like rain, it is possible that spraying just plain water will result in a reduction of infection.

      

      In our research at Rodale we found that ACT did suppress grape powdery mildew at one of the vineyards in one of the two years were experimented, but this was only about 50% suppression and was not adequate from the grower’s perspective. In the second year we did not observe any powdery mildew suppression at any of the three vineyards we were collaborating with. So it seems like there is potential, but ACT for disease suppression really needs some major developments before it can be recommended with confidence (ie. purchase crop if suppression fails like Ted mentioned) to growers.

      

      I also wanted to mention that Tom has a good point - "As hard as I search I still haven’t found an article on disease suppression supporting ACT by your methodologies".

      

      I hope that I have not offended anybody, just wanted to shed some light in a constructive sense.

      

      Matt Ryan

      The Rodale Institute

      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
      Sent: Thu 10/21/2004 2:19 AM
      To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
      Cc:
      Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on compost tea, November 2004
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Titel Ryzhomer <mailto:thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
      To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:15 PM
      Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on compost tea, November 2004

      
      Hi Ted,
      
      Yes, I've actually observed with magnification the powdery mildew
      structure breaking down after spraying (under magnification it has a
      building block, almost geodesic (sp) structure) and eventually
      disappearing, sometimes leaving a scar. This efficacy has not been
      apparent with every batch of CT, however other batches have helped
      to control it as you have indicated regarding grape plants. I am
      aware that there are many types of powdery mildew and perhaps this
      CT is working only on the variety we have growing here on
      delphineas, roses, some herbs, Indian Hemp or Dogbane {Apocynum
      androsaemifolium} and a weed that appears to belong to the Evening
      Primrose family. It has been quite easy to induce the powdery mildew
      (for research purposes) through use of poor growing conditions, etc.
      
      I hope this helps to clarify.
      
      Regards,
      Titel
      
      
      
      Well, I will have to say this is amazing. In all the tests I have run here I have seen nothing like this. We have several vinyards using different brewers from different makers and some home ones knocked off of mine and Earth Works and a lot of different recipes. I haven't heard reports like yours from any of them. Most vinyards use Roses as indicator plants because powdery mildew will usually show up there before grapes. If the vinyard people see it on the roses they can be pretty sure it's in the vines. I tried spraying right on the roses with full strength tea and it did nothing to the mildew that was already there. It did prevent the mildew from spreading but did absolutely nothing to the existing mildew on the plant. In addition, I had to spray every day to prevent the spread. When I stopped spraying, the mildew started spreading in 1 to 2 weeks depending on mildew pressure.
      
      Do you have controls? Did you try spraying with just molasses or just water? Could it be that there was a residue of fungicide that was activated when you sprayed? Was the sprayer you used completely clean of fungicides? Did you add anything to the tea that was a form of organic fungicide that you didn't explain in your message?
      
      Here is the problem I have: I did not see and have not seen anything even close to what you are describing. If I believe what you say and go to a vinyard and present CT as able to cure powdery mildew and it doesn't, I am financially responsible for their loss of product. Are you sure enough of what you posted about eradication of powdery mildew to back up that claim to a grower? Would you be willing to go to a grower and state if he follows your directions and the mildew does not subside that you would compensate him for the loss?
      
      The tests I made were on conventional vines, organic vines and patches that were separated by enough distance to give pretty accuract results. One vinyard was in a medium to high mildew pressure area and the other was in an area that was traditionally low mildew pressure. I did see the outbreaks controlled in every vinyard I have applied tea instead of conventional fungicide but even in the most successful vinyards, we got minor outbreaks. I treated those with fungicide after I determined that tea could do nothing to eradicate the mildew. So your post is very interesting to me. Do you have any lab test to substantiate what you say? Would you be willing to let me contact the grower and find out his/her impression of what happened? If what you say is true, you may have found something worth a fortune to organic growers.
      
      I now have contracts with 5 vinyards and have sprayed a lot of tea over almost three years. I have done a lot of tests and am still unprepared to make the statement you have made after 7 months so I am very interested to learn where you are having success when nobody I know, even other consultants, are having the same results.
      
      You mentioned inducing mildew as the result of poor growing conditions. The spread of mildew has not been the result of poor growing conditions as far as I can tell. It attacks both conventional and organicically managed plants with equal vengence. I have seen it attack in extremely well managed vinyards and skip poorly managed vinyards and vice-versa.
      
      Ted Peterson
      EW/SOE

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Received on Tue Oct 26 2004 - 23:12:14 EDT

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