Re: [compost_tea] Re: Re: Re: Re: non-aerated teas?
Hi Kirk -
Yep, all I want is an excuse for a good beer.......
And, yep, it is hard to mess up good compost, but you can if you add too
many foods to the compost tea mix. The balance is between aeration and added
foods. You have to get that right.
I would disagree that I have implied that non-aerated teas mean
automatically anaerobic. I have, many times, distinguished between them. Non-aerated
with foods added usually are anaerobic, however. And I usually note that
condition as being bad news.
Adjuvant - hum, careful on the use of that term. It does not just mean any
kind of material added to something else. An adjuvant CARRIES something else.
It is a term from immunology, meant for a specific type of addition, not
just any additive. I'd have to dig up my old immunology notes to recall the
specific meaning, but the way you used it made me un-comfortable.
The variability issue is why we went to the condition where aeration held
high enough to prevent conditions where facultative anaerobes would win. We
wanted to select strictly for aerobe growth.
That message seems to have escaped a minor, but significant, portion of the
compost tea world. And it seems to be the same group that do not understand
that just because something exists in aerobic conditions does not mean it is
capable of growing. E. coli does not grow in fully aerobic conditions, when
lots of other organisms are present that are more capable of using those
conditions. Since E. coli is a facultative anaerobe, it will be out-competed in
those conditions.
This is not something where just paying attention to aerobic versus
anaerobic is adequate. That appears to be what Will Brinton would like to pretend I
am saying, but in fact, it is not what I said at all. Diversity is required
and active, growing sets of aerobes, is what I said. Plate counts and CO2
evolution do not enable one to assess the necessary conditions.
Kirk, be careful when you say this "because as oxygen in water is used by
microorganisms, the water will take up more oxygen." It sounds like you are
saying the water is being changed to take up more oxygen than it was able to
have before the microbes were doing their thing.
Diffusion is what has to be considered here. When aerobic microbes grow,
the use up O2 and release CO2. When O2 is depleted, that means a diffusion
gradient gets set up. O2 will be reduced at the surface of the water,
eventually, which will result in O2 movement from the higher concentration of the
atmosphere into the water. So, that's what you meant by "more oxygen", except it
is replacement oxygen for what was taken up by the microbes, not a higher
concentration than was present before.
Ah, language. Isn't it fun?
So, now the quiz.
1. If you put fungal foods into a liquid containing both bacteria and
fungi, would there be an increased oxygen demand that could drive the tea into
reduced oxygen conditions?
2. What is the critical information necessary to know if a tea will work as
a foliar spray?
Elaine
---------------------------------
Kirk wrote:
Elaine -- Got it. Look forward to that quiz and beer (and the
conversation:-).
I think there were just two points I was trying to make. One, it's hard to
do bad things with good compost, and two, non-aerated teas can be good, too,
and not anaerobic. Seems we agree. And yes, I understand that maximum
diversity (max food web) is the holy grail of both composts and teas.
A reason I got on this thread is that while you have not said non-aerated
equals anaerobic teas, you have implied that many times. There is a greater
risk there, but the risk also exists with aerated systems. "Properly made"
is indeed the principal condition. As you suggest, I would not use ACT
foods in non-aerated teas, except as "adjuvants," as I understand that
term - something added to a tea just before application, not during the
tea-making period. I do wonder if fungal foods might be ok, though.
I'd also suggest that the variability of non-aerated teas is not unique. It
is also an issue right now with aerated teas. Compost consistency seems to
be key to achieving tea consistency, however you make it.
I feel a need to qualify "non-aerated" for new folks, in case it's not
clear. "Aerated" as we're using it means air is pumped into the tea tank.
Non-aerated is a bit of a misnomer, because as oxygen in water is used by
microorganisms, the water will take up more oxygen. Stirring teas will
cause an oxygen exchange, as well, so unless you make tea in a sealed
container there's really no way to make a "non-aerated" tea.
Microorganism foods added to a compost tea will cause oxygen to be used
more, which is why aeration is a good idea if you want to use foods to grow
aerobic critters in the tea. The ability of water to take up oxygen can be
exceeded with too much oxygen-consuming stuff in it, leading to low or no
oxygen conditions, which is not a good thing. Right, Doc?:-)
On another note, I haven't ever used non-aerated tea as a foliar spray, but
I've heard some do. Would anyone care to say something about that?
-- Kirk
Received on Tue Jan 11 2005 - 18:36:51 EST
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