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Re: The Limits To Growth



On 14 Dec 1996 17:28:00 GMT, davwhitt@med.unc.edu (David Whitt) wrote:

>
>In article <32b5d4c3.40782080@nntp.net-link.net>,
>Brian Carnell <brian@carnell.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:38:35 EDT, Toby Reiter <str4552@OBERLIN.EDU>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>After reading some of your posts, I'm beginning to become a little 
>>>scared.  There is no way you can sat that humans can operate an ecosystem 
>>>better than nature--it's just not true.
>>
>>Human beings are a product of nature.
>>Ergo, the way human beings manage the ecosystem *is* the way nature
>>manages the ecosystem.
>>
>>Your attempt to personify "nature" as some high minded manager is a
>>bit silly.
>
>
>And it is due to our efficient management of the ecosystem that we have
>caused one of the largest extinctions in all world history.  That is why
>carbon dioxide levels have doubled and there's a hole in the ozone layer
>over the poles and the rest is thinning (causing the number of causes of
>skin cancer to multiply).  While humans beings are a product of nature,
>their actions are not.  Natural actions are generally governed by instict,
>not ignorance, greed, or apathy.  The facts are, nature has done very well
>for the past several hundred million years without man.  Since the
>industrial age man has adversly affected the environment through
>artificial means (unless you want to imply that platics and DDT can occur
>in nature without any means of artificial production).  Why is this such a
>hard concept for you to understand?
>
>
>      ****                   David Whitt     davwhitt@med.unc.edu
>     ** ***
>         **                  No one can make you feel inferior
>         ***                 without your consent.
>         ****                                 -Eleanor Roosevelt
>        ***  *
>       ***   **   *          People often find it easier to be a result
>      ***    ******          of the past than a cause of the future.
>     ***       ***
>


Ignorance, greed, and apathy are not instincts? Look at any human two
year old. Concern about anything other than immediate self
satisfaction is a learned behavior.
Man was created by nature and his actions are a part of nature. He is
just better at it than any other species.
 
1) You want all of mankind to work together. That is not nature's way
2) You want to change man's natural behavior in ways that you think
would be better. 
3) You are trying to prevent certain changes in nature. That is not
nature's way. This biosphere we are a part of is always changing.
Species come and go. Temperatures go up and down. Coastlines move back
and forth. Change after change. Nature never sits still.

What you are proposing is not natural. 

Besides, it won't work anyway:
1) China is not listening to you. That's about a quarter of the
world's population. If you think the mess the USSR made was bad, wait
until you see what China does.
2) The need for energy in the second and third world is going up, up,
up.  Unless we start building them cheap nuclear plants, they will
biuld coal or oil plants and they won't put much in the way of
emissions controls on them.
3) You are not going to make the changes you want to in the US. The
rest of us won't let you.


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