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Re: British Beef Situation



 
In article <H7NISCAuL1fxEw3e@upthorpe.demon.co.uk>, Oz (Oz@upthorpe.demon.co.uk) writes:
>In article <wVtkvBAghyfxEwCg@chalex.demon.co.uk>, cmb
><cmb@chalex.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <4lhajd$jmc@news1.exit109.com>, "Nathan D. Justus"
>><nathan@exit109.com> writes
>>>In article <flOojiAmDzexEwd7@upthorpe.demon.co.uk>,
>>>   Oz <Oz@upthorpe.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Farmers in pre-fertiliser and pre-spray days farmed organically and 
>>>>achieved yields typically less than 1/3 of what we have today (UK). They 
>>>>actually knew what they were doing, were pretty smart and had 2000+ 
>>>>years of experience. If you think that, with much of the knowledge lost, 
>>>>and with little experience you are going to do any better then you 
>>>>merely expose your ignorance. I take it you are a practising organic 
>>>>farmer earning your entire income from it?
>>>>
>>the last sentence shows how we can become blinkered by the constraints
>>of modern western economic theory.  you do not have to be a practising
>>organic farmer or earn your entire income from it in order to contribute
>>both in theory and practice to (a) a more sustainable way of life (b)
>>producing healthy food. there are are many 'cottage farmers' doing very
>>nicely on a part time basis; they work in the 'nuts and bolts' economy
>>to earn the necessary cash and in spare time to produce their food and
>>preserve/improve the environment. If everyone used their available
>>resources from window boxes/ backyards/ farms to produce their own food
>>(EG using permaculture design principals) we would be better fed,
>>happier and using less non renewable resources in transport,
>>fertilisers, chemicals etc etc.  
>
>I'm all for it. Excellent. Unfortunately it typically doesn't begin to
>feed the family, much less others with no land. So it's far from being a
>solution to feeding the world. It does however make a lot of people very
>happy, and that's good.
>
>>of course the conventional economists don't like it because these
>>activities don't show up in the GDP, and the agri-businesses don't like
>>it because they feel threatened by it, 
>
>Eh? Absolutely not I would have thought. The effect is miniscule. If
>farmers thought about this dispassionately then they would encourage it.
>The reduced production would result in reduced supply and thus increased
>prices. Funny old world, ain't it?

Do you hold shares in ICI by any chance?

>>hence some of the agressive
>>replies in this thread. the conventional approach is not working so we
>>have a responsibility to look dispassionately at the alternatives 
>
>Well, the 'conventional' approach is actually feeding the world. This is
>a pretty good description of 'working' to me. The 'organic' route
>cannot, but it gives a great deal of pleasure to many people and that's
>good.

Oz, 

If you have a sense of humility, you won't mind me pointing out
that you don't KNOW (caps in place of italics) that the organic way
can't feed the world. Simply because we haven't tried and failed
yet. It's only just the beginning and there's a lot more to be done.

Nature will bring the world population into balance in time so we
really oughtn't to bother too much about. We will be much better
placed doing the best we can to feed ourselves and those local to us
in a sensible "organic" way. 

I'm curious as to your vision of the long-term future. Do you really
feel that we can carry on eating biocides and get away with it?
Whatever we do (that Mother Nature doesn't like) will be paid for.

Why give up before we've even started, seems a bit defeatist
(bordering on negative) to me. 

Haven't you got any hope?

Are you perhaps an existentialist? 

Is your signature something you believe in or is it merely meant to
be funny. 


>'Oz     "When I knew little, all was certain. The more I learnt,
>        the less sure I was. Is this the uncertainty principle?"

If the Sun and Moon should doubt they surely would go out. This is
the certainty principle.


David Libby:  112 Kedleston Rd, Derby, DE22 1FW, England
Tel: 01332 736775, Fax too but please ring first.





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