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Re: Yuri receives hypocrite of the week award (was Re: Ecological Economics and Entropy)
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Subject: Re: Yuri receives hypocrite of the week award (was Re: Ecological Economics and Entropy)
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From: yuku@io.org (Yuri Kuchinsky)
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Date: 29 Nov 1996 14:07:37 GMT
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Article: 16750 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
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Followup-To: talk.environment,sci.environment,sci.energy,sci.econ,sci.agriculture,alt.sustainable.agriculture,tor.general
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Newsgroups: talk.environment, sci.environment, sci.energy, sci.econ, sci.agriculture, alt.sustainable.agriculture, tor.general
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Organization: Internex Online (shell.io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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References: <56musp$rhb@news1.io.org> <32a98316.432788038@nntp.net-link.net> <01bbd9b2$28d870e0$89d0d6cc@micron-p133> <579ocd$q7u@news1.io.org> <32cb3663.298408690@nntp.net-link.net> <57hk0f$lfi@news1.io.org> <57kqvq$gph@agate.berkeley.edu>
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Xref: newz.oit.unc.edu talk.environment:79370 sci.environment:113432 sci.energy:59362 sci.econ:61237 sci.agriculture:16528 alt.sustainable.agriculture:16750
I agree with Atanu overall. Nevertheless, there're some points where we
may diverge.
Atanu Dey (atanu@are.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
...
: Yet, I am forced to conclude that because I don't see any reason why
: the population explosion of the world cannot be halted humanely with
: the application of known technology and a few billion dollars. I
: believe that as long as the third world continues to have near
: subsistence level surplus population, wages would be sufficiently
: depressed so that labor intensive goods can be imported cheaply from
: there by the first world. And corruption and greed on the part of the
: 'leaders' of the third world would ensure a steady military struggle
: which would require the imports of armaments from the first world and
: continue the cycle of poverty and dependence.
: I don't doubt that the third world deserves every misfortune that it
: is prey to.
And I _doubt it_. They are simply people like others. They don't deserve
the Pope, and they don't need him to come around and to mess with their
minds. Sure, people in the 3 world are more vulnerable because they don't
have the education necessary to deal with the religious propaganda --
whether it's Ayatollah's or the Pope's.
: They are revealed to be weak and stupid.
Weak, yes -- but not stupid!
: Darwinian
: selection would take care of them in the not too long term.
You don't understand... The Darwinian selection is what's pushing them to
procreate excessively -- in part. It will produce more of them -- and this
will result in the destruction of their own culture and environment. On
top of that, they will arrive as refugees to the rich countries and will
contribute to problems there as well.
Also, this tragedy is in part created by misguided Western Aid. There are
major problems with this -- our responsibility. Often the do-gooders cause
more harm than good. Example: help them to increase their life expectancy
-- without ALSO helping them to reduce the birth rate. This is the major
CRIMINAL IRRATIONALITY of our often well-meaning aid.
: Yet I
: feel for the children who are born blameless and then grow up to
: contribute to the mess that is the third world.
: Wish I had the power to force the world leaders to live under grinding
: poverty and hunger for just a month. And the people who are so good
: at arithmetic to live on an empty stomach for 3 days - I wonder how
: comforted they will be by the thought that although they are hungry,
: there are more people living well today than ever before in the history
: of mankind.
It is the responsibility of these "world leaders" for the suffering and
poverty -- resulting mostly from overpopulation -- that I'd like to
stress. People are people, they are the same anywhere, they're weak,
they're greedy, they're prey to this and that illusion, etc. As a
scientist, my assumption is that they will always be the way they are. We
cannot change the people. What we possibly can change is our leaders, and
the _philosophical systems_ on which our societies are based.
Best,
Yuri.
--
** Yuri Kuchinsky in Toronto **
-- a webpage like any other... http://www.io.org/~yuku --
Most of the evils of life arise from man's being
unable to sit still in a room || B. Pascal
References: