Re: Forgot to treat bean seeds with innoculant
Subject: Re: Forgot to treat bean seeds with innoculant
From: email@example.com (Beverly Erlebacher)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 21:33:36 GMT
Article: 35724 of rec.gardens
Organization: Ontario Cancer Institute - U of Toronto
In article <2tkd8b$333@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> firstname.lastname@example.org writes:
>This year, my planting of several varieties of bush and pole beans was done hastily
>and I forgot to treat the seeds with legume innoculant before planting. The seeds have just germinated in the last few days and I wondering if there is any point to
>trying to infuse some innoculant around each sprout (perhaps with a syringe and short
>piece of small-diameter tubing)? Does anyone have thoughts on this or a sense
>of how important it is to use innoculant. Thanks.
I forgot to one year as well, and since this was a new garden, formerly
lawn, I figured there might not be the right bacteria there. I just
mixed up some inoculant with plenty of water (not all that easy),
scratched a narrow trench next to the plants, poured the mix in and
covered the trench. When I pulled up the plants after they were done,
there were plenty of healthy nodules on the roots, so either it worked
or the soil already had the right bacteria. Too bad I didn't do a
controlled experiment: maybe you can. Tell me the results!
Now that I've cycled inoculated beans and peas through most of the
garden, I've stopped buying inoculant. Current wisdom is that beans
are 'lazy' and don't fix much nitrogen in the good soils likely to
be found in gardens, and I figure my soil is full of the right kind
of bacteria now anyway.
Toronto, Ontario Canada
Date: Mon 30 March 1992
Re: Re: Esperseth
-> I don't know the Latin name (it's not listed in _Hortus III_ either).
-> author of the article about this plant says it's from Switzerland whe
-> it's used as forage. She thinks it's related to alfalfa.
Well, now, knowing the Switzerland part, I dug out my couple
of German plant books... There's something that in German is
called 'Esparsette', grows wild in meadows, and is a desirable
forage plant. I do wonder whether that's what you're looking for...
Oh, botanical name for 'Esparsette' is Onobrychys viciaefolia.
Re: More Esperseth Info
Following is some descriptive information about esperseth (Onobrychys
viciaefolia ???) I neglected to post.
"...Distinguished by small pink and blue blossoms and vetch-like
pinnate leaves, this plant matures over years into massive and
deep-rooted clumps. They measure as much as three-feet wide at the
base, and grow over 20 inches high when in full bloom."
If you're familiar with this plant please notify me by e-mail. I have
a number of questions concerning espereth and its' uses.
Re: Re: ESPERSETH
Since you said the lady thought it was related to alfalfa, I looked a bit more
closely at the listings under medicago (alfalfa family) in Sturtevant's. I
found one possibility: Medicago denticulata, or bur clover, aka shanghai
trefoil. It says it is native to the North temperate region of the Old World
and that a fine, broadleaved variety was found to be much used by the Chinese
as a winter vegetable. The name bur clover suggest a possibly sharp seed to me,
and the fact of winter vegetable use suggests the possibility of a perennial.
Slim associations, I know, but perhaps you could look this plant up in some of
your sources and see if there are any stronger correlations.
(1743) Thu 2 Apr 92 13:08
Re: Re: ESPERSETH
Looked in some German plant books and found a listing for a
plant called `Esparcette' in the German language. It grows wild in
meadows, and is a desirable forage plant. Its' botanical name is
I looked-up O. viciaefolia in _Hortus III_ and found that is a member of
the Leguminosae family. The description follows:
SAINFOIN, HOLY CLOVER, ESPARCET. Perennial to 2 feet; leaflets in 6-12
pairs, oblong or linear, 1 inch long; peduncles longer than leaves,
racemes (many-flowered; flowers pink, rarely white, to 1/2 inch long
or more; fruit pubescent, many-toothed on 1 side, to 3/8 inch long.
Temperate Eurasia. Adapted to dry soil.
I think this might be what the articles author, Patricia Nell Warren,
calls esperseth. She concludes her article about esperseth with the
following. Hopefully, someone can answer her questions.
I've the following questions about esperseth. Please answer as many
as you can.
*In parts of the United States where there is greater summer or
year-round rainfall than in Montana, would esperseth have a more
tender growth, and be as palatable to cattle as it was in Switzerland?
*In these rainier areas, can esperseth begin to replace commercially
grown alfalfa--both as hay for dairy cattle, and as fresh forage in
dairy pasture? If it can, it would be a gift to farmers in
water-critical areas like California, where alfalfa farming is now
under fire because it demands so much water.
*Would the rugged deep-rooted plants be more resistant to close
grazing and trampling by livestock than are the more fragile grasses?
*Do sheep like esperseth? Goats? Horses? Llamas? Sheep and goats
feast on many plants--like leafy spurge and spotted knap--that cattle
*In drier parts of the U.S., would esperseth provide good
drought-resistant grazing for sheep and goats, who don't mind woody
*What about ranging poultry? Can esperseth stand up better than
standard pasture to the incessant scratching and digging by ranged
chickens and turkeys? Ranged poultry is an attractive alternative to
"factory chicken," but it can be destructive to land, in the same way
as intensive grazing by hoofed animals.
*What are the possible dangers to horses, of grazing on green
esperseth? Every horse-owner knows the risk of green alfalfa.
*What is espereth's long-term value (since it is a slow grower) in
revitalizing farmland and rangeland that is eroded and leached of
*Does esperseth have survival value for wild grazers like elk and
deer? Some private-landowners are learning that their strategy for
environmentally saner ranching and farming can also help support
local hard-pressed wildlife. I have seen white-tail deer feasting
happily on my Montana patch. Esperseth is still deep green in
August, at a time when most Western grasses are cured on the stem.
*What can esperseth add to our array of plants used for reclaiming
strip mines and other such areas damaged by strip mines?
*With its slow growth rate, does esperseth have any value as a
single-season green manure?
*Does esperseth--like alfalfa--have any medicinal value for humans?
These and other questions about this intriguing plant deserve to be
For further information and the possible availability of small
quantities of hand-gathered 1992 seed, interested persons can write to
Patricia Nell Warren, c/o _ACRES U.S.A._ (P.O. Box 9547, Kansas City,
MO 64133, U.S. of America) and letters will be forwarded. I also
would like to hear from _ACRES U.S.A._ readers in Europe who know
anything about esperseth history, and its uses in Europe today.
Re: Re: ESPERSETH
Looked up Onobrychys in Sturtevant. I only found Onobrychis
crista-galli, common name Hedgehog. It was mentioned as only
having ornamental use as a garden curiosity, though it "appears in some of our
seedsmen's lists." It was listed as a legume, but it seems to be not quite the
same thing or else I'm running into differences in nomeclature because the book
dates to 1910. It's been an interesting hunt, though. Good luck on finding out
To: Lawrence London
I have an old (1988) catalog from J.L. HUDSON, in which there's a listing
for Onobrychis sativa (=viciaefolia). If he still sells it, and a packet
of seeds is only $1.00, you might want to check with him besides Ms.
J.L. HUDSON, SEEDSMAN [Catalog - $1]
P.O. Box 1058
Redwood City, CA 94064
Re: Re: ESPERSETH
If you try O. vicaefolia (a.k.a. esperseth), let us know the results. BTW,
I think (?) Peaceful Valley Farm Supply also has seed for espetseth. It's
probably sold as either SAINFOIN or HOLY CLOVER.
Did one more glance at my German books, and all the additional
information I can come up with is: Likes dry, limestone type
soils, and seems to be a desirable component of hay.
I remember seeing it in Austria, in meadows with lots of
wildflowers. Later on (1981 to 1986) in central Germany, I saw
neither wildflowers nor esparsette. When I asked one of the
local farmers why there weren't any wildflowers like there used
to be, the answer was that today the meadows got fertilized, and
that provided the wrong nutrient balance for the wildflowers.
Re: Re: ESPERSETH
The address for PVFS is as follows:
PEACEFUL VALLEY FARM SUPPLY [Catalog - $2]
P.O. Box 2209 [Deductable from]
110 Springhill Boulevard [1st order]
Grass Valley, CA 95945
Re: Re: ESPERSETH
Re: Horticultural copyright
Subject: Re: Such thing as a "Horticultural Copyright"?
Date: 8 Jan 92 23:31:13 GMT
>|> I have a question regarding legalities around plant propagation. Is there
>|> the concept of a "horticultural copyright"? This copyright would prohibit
>|> propagation of plant varieties without a formal agreement with the
>|> original plantsman who produced the strain.
>I think patents do this. Yes, you can patent a new hybrid plant.
Are there patents for open-pollenated varieties too?
Say someone spends 20 years carefully selecting the best plants of a
variety of tomato until they manage to develop an improved variety?
I'm sure they would want to patent it (to be the sole legal vendor).
It seems to me that this would be a big issue for breeders since it's easy
to propagate open-pollenated varieties by seed.
'Plant Patents' have been around since the 1930s, in the USA. The give
the 'inventor' rights to all commercial propagation, if the plant is
propagated asexually. New potato varieties and new daylilies can be patented.
Existing varieties cannot be patented, and I believe any breeder can use the
material in further creations. I think private propagation is also allowed.
Historically, plants propagated by seed could not be accorded
proprietary rights. This was what made hybrids so appealing to breeders.
The two parents of a hybrid corn could be protected as a "trade secret", a
legal status which still accords the breeder the maximum in long term
proprietary rights. But hybrids of many species are not particularly
appealing to consumers, so in 1970 breeders succeeded in obtaining the
"Plant Variety Protection Act" (PVPA). This gives patent-like protection
to sexually propagated plants, with the proviso that farmers and breeders
can reproduce ti as much as they want for their own purposes. The original
PVPA had an exemption for the six Cambell's soup vegetables, but by 1980
breeders were able to get an amendment that included those too.
After working so hard to develop a property-rights scheme in which
breeders could still use the protected material in further breeding, a new
twist was added by molecular biologists and the US Patnt Office in the mid-
1980s. First they were granted "utility patents" (same as given for a
mechanical invention) for microbes, then for plants, and finally for
animals. This was a blow to breeders in that utility patents do not
allow breeders to use each others' creations. (That might have a beneficial
impact on the commercial gene pool.)
So if you have purchased a plant marked "patented", it is probably
something that is protected under the 1930s Plant Patent Act, and only for
asexual propagation. Feel free to propagate it for yourself. However,
if it is protected by a utility patent (I don't think anything much on the
market is, yet), your perogative to do this may technically be restricted.
(But feel free anyway :)). If you buy plant material that is marked "PVP"
then you can't propagate the seed and sell it to anyone. If its a hybrid
you can do as you please with the seed.
The European community has somewhat different laws.
Re: Soil loss through erosion (from Usenet, sci.environment)
Subject: Topsoil loss
Date: 24 Apr 92 20:29:43 GMT