Subject: NMFS OKs killing sea lions that eat steelhead

From: [email-masked] (John H. Kim)
Date: 14 Mar 1996 20:53:57 GMT

The National Marine Fisheries Service just told Washington
state's Department of Fish and Wildlife that it can kill any
sea lion that (1) has a history of eating steelhead, (2) is
oblivious to underwater noisemakers, and (3) is seen hunting
steelhead this season.

See http://www.cnn.com/wires/EARTH/03-14/sea_lions/index.html
for more details.

Followups to rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater and sci.bio.fisheries.
-- 
John H. Kim         "A citizen of America will cross the ocean to fight
[email-masked]       for democracy, but won't cross the street to vote in
[email-masked]  a national election."  -- Bill Vaughan

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From: TheMuskyDude <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:34:00 -0600

> Followups to rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater and sci.bio.fisheries.

I've been to the west coast, and when you salmon fish you can't even fight 
the fish without sea lion's attacking what you have hooked (on open water, 
not on river's).  I would rather see hunting for them (than just killing), 
but there is no question they are impacting the salmon and steelhead 
populations.  So I would applaud the move.

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From: Howard Itow <itow>
Date: 15 Mar 1996 23:21:01 GMT

The sea lions have been known to travel great lengths up river systems to get
the salmon and steelhead.  The further upriver they go, the easier it is for
them corale the fish.

Decades ago, both the Sea Lions and the fish lived in harmony.  Fish
populations, especially the Coho Salmon prospered, but something happened. The
fish now has more predators, and the Sea lions have only one, the shark.  As
our populations increase, the pressure on fish increase, via the demand for
water, not sportfishing.

The Sea Lion has had time to over populate, it is time to tip the scale the
other way, and either allow special native american hunting permits or detail
eradication alah Washington state.

I am tired of these fur balls wiping out our efforts to replenish the streams
with fish each winter with the return of the brood stock being wiped out at the
mouth of the rivers.  Our hatchery projects are simply a food factory for these
pests.  It is very unfortunate, but they simply have no fear due to their
protected status.  It's time to cull them out.

-- 
Howard

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From: Howard Itow <itow>
Date: 15 Mar 1996 23:27:11 GMT

Hey, why not open up a fishing season on the Sea Lion?  Lets get Larry Dalhberg
out there with his new Shimano Tiagra Reels (80lb model) and stand up gear.
Simply play catch and release.  If the sea lion is stupid enough to chase down
a salmon off another line again, after being hooked, landed, and tagged by Blue
Marlin gear, then put it out of its misery.  What do you think?  Is this
sporty?
-- 
Howard 
Obviously, another angler who has lost fish to a sea lion

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From: [email-masked] (MrQuixote)
Date: 17 Mar 1996 16:02:12 -0500

It may be native wildlife (seals) eating fish, but they're doing it so
effectively because man has created locks where the fish are forced to
congregate with no real avenue of escape.  We've skewed the odds against
the steelhead.  They've tried everything else to even things up, including
trapping the offending seal lions and releasing them off Santa Barbara,
California, only to have the same ones show up at the locks two to four
weeks later, knife and fork in flipper, bib on, chowing down on the
seafood special.
So maybe there is another choice besides killing the sea lions.  We could
require them to blow up the locks and attempt to turn the waterway back to
nature.  You like that idea better?  (I shoulda never asked.)

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From: [email-masked] (Mark Crafts)
Date: 17 Mar 1996 08:16:32 -0000

>Followups to rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater and sci.bio.fisheries.

Oh god, the NMFS is the biggest bunch of idiots ever to step foot in
Washington.
"Hey!  There's native wildlife EATING FISH!  Let's kill them."

        Mark

-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Mark Crafts                                                   Melbourne FL
           [email-masked]     http://digital.net/~mcrafts
      "You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough."

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From: Tom Wainwright <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:03:49 -0800

John H. Kim wrote:
> Sea lions were an endangered, now threatened species.  Steelhead were
> an unlisted, now endangered species.  Both are currently protected under
> the endangered species act.  What do you do when one protected animal
> starts eating another?  The steelhead run in Washington is about 100
> fish right now.  Sea lions number around 10,000.  They've already tried

A slight correction, John.  Steelhead are not listed anywhere under
the U.S. ESA.  They have been proposed for listing in the California-
Oregon border region ("Klamath Mountains Province") and have been
petitioned for listing everywhere in the lower 48 states, but none have
been listed at this time.

Also, the steelhead runs in Washington in general are quite strong.
It is Lake Washington where the run is so small.

-- 
Tom Wainwright, [email-masked]
National Marine Fisheries Service
Northwest Fisheries Science Center, Seattle, Washington, USA
**Any views expressed are my own, and not those of the U.S. government**

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From: Walter Rhee <[email-masked]>
Date: 20 Mar 1996 01:04:19 GMT

Mr. Kim, 

I am having some difficulties posting this, could you help me post
re: sea lions?  I would appreciate it.

Pleeeease don't kill the sea lions! I am sure the animal rights group
will love those furry animals for pets. Let each member of the animal 
rights group divvy up the sea lions and take them home as pets. I know 
they will give all the TLC. Whatever is going to be used for lawyers 
fees, I am sure they could use the money to feed them. Oh, by the way, 
they like steelheads. What to do? What to do? 

Also, do you think they would get back to Seattle from Florida?
Either via Panama Canal/Amtrak/Grey Hound/Air Lines/St. Lawrence River?
Hitchhiking?

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From: [email-masked] (John H. Kim)
Date: 18 Mar 1996 18:32:46 GMT

> "Hey!  There's native wildlife EATING FISH!  Let's kill them."

I guess I didn't include enough info.  I figured the steelhead/sea lion 
problem was pretty well known, but I guess you folks down in Florida are
a little detached from all this, Mark.

Sea lions were an endangered, now threatened species.  Steelhead were
an unlisted, now endangered species.  Both are currently protected under
the endangered species act.  What do you do when one protected animal
starts eating another?  The steelhead run in Washington is about 100
fish right now.  Sea lions number around 10,000.  They've already tried
noisemakers, playing orca sounds, shipping the "problem" sea lions to
Southern California (they swam back!).  I figured killing them would
eventually be inevitable.  I have to wonder what was the reasoning
behind a couple animal-rights groups filing a lawsuit against the
decision.
-- 
John H. Kim         "A citizen of America will cross the ocean to fight
[email-masked]       for democracy, but won't cross the street to vote in
[email-masked]  a national election."  -- Bill Vaughan

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From: [email-masked] (John H. Kim)
Date: 22 Mar 1996 03:45:14 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Curt Putnam <[email-masked]> wrote:

>I can't argue your listings data, but I'd still like to propose Fur &
>Fin Trips.  On each sport boat, there should be a drawing - and the
>winner gets to shoot a (1) sea lion - if caught poaching fish from the
>boat's anglers.

This is a little ridiculous.  Poaching?  Who told the sea lions
that a fish on your line is your property?

AR activists anthropomorphize animal behavior to make them appear
more human-like.  Then they use this as an excuse to say they have
rights just like humans.  Please don't use the same trick to demonize
sea lions as an excuse to kill them.

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From: [email-masked] (Curt Putnam)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 06:17:32 GMT

Tom,

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From: [email-masked] (Steve Thomas)
Date: 21 Mar 1996 22:46:57 GMT

In article [email-masked], Bob McClure <[email-masked]> () writes:
>Pssst!  These sealions aren't native to Puget Sound!
>

So, are they hatchery raised?
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From: Bob McClure <[email-masked]>
Date: 21 Mar 1996 21:08:58 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Jim Pook)
Date: 22 Mar 1996 16:00:54 -0800

I don't pretend to be an expert on this issue, but here's my opinion for
what it is worth:

The sealions have all but wiped out this one run of steelhead. They get
trapped in front of the locks and the sealions feast on them.

Ever since there has been a total ban on killing seals and sealions on the
Pacific coast, their populations have exploded. They have rebounded very
well!

What is needed now is a well regulated culling of the heards. Not a return
to the old days of "let's kill them all."

The real shame here is that this one bunch of sealions were not shot and
killed three or four years ago when there were still a good number of
steelhead in this one run. Now that we ARE allowed to shoot them - it may be
too late - thanks again to political correctness.

=============================================================================
- Jim Pook      -  Jim's Fishing Charters    -  The Fishing Guide Newsletter
     #316 - 2750 Cooperative Way, Vancouver, B.C., Canada, V5M 4S3
  Contact me about Salmon & Halibut fishing in SuperNatural British Columbia
           E-Mail: [email-masked] - Phone: (604) 433-8817
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          Many men go fishing all their lives
          without knowing that it is not fish they are after.
                                                    -  Henry David Thoreau
=============================================================================

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In article <[email-masked]>,

--

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From: TheMuskyDude <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:51:44 -0600

Jim Pook wrote:
> =============================================================================> - Jim Pook      -  Jim's Fishing Charters    -  The Fishing Guide Newsletter
Nice post Jim.  It would be nice to let nature be, but since man has stacked 
all the odds in the fur balls favor against the steelhead & salmon.  I don't 
see any other option.

Vince

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From: Rob Hillis <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 09:56:16 -0800

Jim Pook wrote:
> 	I just think it is sad when we start blaming an anamal for problems we created.