From stu@wpo.nerc.ac.uk Sun May 14 13:33:23 EDT 1995
Article: 191 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: stu@wpo.nerc.ac.uk (Stu Clough)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Pond Fertilization Info?
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 13:21:39
Organization: Natural Environment Reseach Council
Lines: 27
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>>
>>--
>>I'm looking for information about how much fertilizer per acre to use
>>in a small pond to help control the existing moss.  Currently, the
>>water is very clear, and a large build up of moss covers the bottom
>>and the bank edges.  Any info is appreciated...
>>
>You want to put fertilizer in a pond to reduce moss biomass?  Fertilizer?
>Are you sure you mean fertilizer?  You know that stuff with nitrates,
>phosphates, etc?  I could be mistaken but I thought fertilizer helped floral
>growth, and was not used to control biomass. 

I think I understand!!  The basic principle is to increase the amount of 
algae, in turn increasing the turbidity, and therefore the amount of light 
penetrating to the bottom, thus controlling the existing moss.  Plant biomass 
will increase, moss biomass will decrease.  I know of a pond where this has 
been tried, and have some data (somewhere!!) on dosage levels.  The 
fertilisation was a complete success, turning a clear pond in which the few 
stunted fish present were cagey and difficult to catch, into a good, well 
stocked fishery, with fish of good average size.

If I can find the figures I'll post them under pond fertilisation dosage 
levels (or similar)

Stu.
 


From v2sw002@owgmail.endicott.ibm.com Sun May 14 13:33:58 EDT 1995
Article: 186 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: v2sw002@news-owego.endicott.ibm.com (Erwin R. Williamson)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Aquariums and Tropical Fish
Date: 5 May 1995 18:29:50 GMT
Organization: Loral Owego
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Hello All!  I scanned the newsgroups hoping to find something on
aquarium fish, but this group is the closest thing to it I could 
find.  Any suggestions or maybe a pointer to a web site?  I'm sure
there are many Aquarium enthusiasts out there and I'm surprised 
that there isn't a newsgroup out there already!

Hank


From wyee@sedona.intel.com Sun May 14 13:33:59 EDT 1995
Article: 187 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: wyee@sedona.intel.com (Wai Fai Yee -FT-~)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Shrimp Breeding
Date: 5 May 1995 01:55:50 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation
Lines: 25
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Hello,

	Anyone here has information or can point me to information regarding
shrimp breeding?. Thanks you very much


PS... Yes, I am a circuit designer - but I also like shrimp. I checked a week
      ago and no one has objected to me posting shrimp breeding questions here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Les opinions exprimees ici me sont personnelles et n engagent pas le Intel.
Any opinions expressed here is solely mine and not of Intel.

Wai Fai, YEE   M/S CH6-210          
Intel Corporation
5000 W. Chandler Blvd        
Chandler, AZ 85226                 
Phone (602)554-4139, FAX (602)554-2241
wyee@sedona.intel.com          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
 Intel, Corp.
 5000 W. Chandler Blvd.
 Chandler, AZ  85226


From pcummins@clark.net Sun May 14 13:34:00 EDT 1995
Article: 188 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!pcummins
From: pcummins@clark.net (Michelle Cummins)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: MD Aquaculturists/Farmers
Date: 6 May 1995 22:10:42 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA
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Anyone in the state of Maryland who is interested in aquaculture might 
like a few numbers to get started.

Aquaculture Office MD AG Dept - Brad Powers, Roy Castle 410 841-5724

MD Aquaculture Association (Michelle Powell Cummins) 255-4501 for dates 
of next meetings or President Tom Hopkins (301) 353-0363

Aquaculture Info Center (Ag Library) College Park  504-5704 (301)

There is also an Aquaculture Advisory Committee Meeting on May 11 which 
is a group of many involved in Aquaculture including agency people and 
buyers.  The meeting will be held at the Dept of Ag building 7pm.

--
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////
\ P. Cummins Oyster Co., Inc.- Nursery oysters      /
\                            - Grow your own oysters/
\ Call (410) 255-4501  -or-                         /
\ Email pcummins@clark.net                          /
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////


From jcook@access5.digex.net Sun May 14 13:34:00 EDT 1995
Article: 189 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!news3.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: jcook@access5.digex.net (Jeff Cook)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Catch & Release
Date: 7 May 1995 00:40:30 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <3ohivu$a43@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

Yes, this message really involves fisheries...

I just came back to fishing after 20+ years, a friend is getting me into 
fly-fishing. I've just read an article in FLY ROD & REEL MAGAZINE (April 
95) discouraging catch & release fishing. The reasoning is that when an area 
has a kill-limit for a particluar species, it's because they really do want 
to thin out that part of the population...and to return all fish to the 
water is pretty much irresponsible. If you read the article, you'll see I'm 
not overstating the author's opinion.

Is there any sense among the bio-management specialists here that this 
is an appropriate attitude? The author names shifting balances in 
species populations and reproductive ages, disease, additive vs. 
compensatory mortality, etc. The title of the article is 'Killing Your 
Share' and states..."Take a look at the angling regulations on the waters 
you fish, think through what they are apparently trying to achieve and, 
if you're satisfied that the goals are being reached, go ahead and kill 
accordingly."

Catch & Release is a new concept to me (like I said, it HAS been 20 years!), 
but one that I happily practice. But I would appreciate any comments from 
the people who plan out these things. Thanks.

Jeff Cook



From laurence@cco.caltech.edu Sun May 14 13:34:01 EDT 1995
Article: 190 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: laurence@cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Laurence)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Aquariums and Tropical Fish
Date: 7 May 1995 07:53:09 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <3ohu95$4vj@gap.cco.caltech.edu>
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Peter Unmack <ez050581@peseta.ucdavis.edu> writes:

>There are at least three aquarium groups

>alt.aquaria, sci.aquaria, rec.aquaria.  There is also a plants one and 
>probably a marine one to.

There are indeed rec., alt., and sci.aquaria groups.  They are largely
redundant for historical reasons, but rec receives the best
propagation and will be the basis for creating subgroups in the
future.  The other two groups are obsolete except that the peculiar
history of the groups has resulted in some sites receiving only one of
the three groups, so that none can be removed at this time.

There is no group for planted aquaria that I am aware of; if such a
newsgroups exists as the current poster of the aquaria faq I should
probably be made aware of it.  There is no specifically marine group
(yet).

There is a rec.ponds group for pondkeepers, and a (poorly propagated)
alt.aquaria.killies for killifish fanciers.

That is all that comes to mind at the moment.

Dustin

-- 
Clues for the clueless:    It's _not_ the information superhighway.
(personal.peeves edition)  It isn't cyberspace either.
                           Reading news or web pages isn't called surfing.
                           "Proggie" is not acceptable for "program."


From stu@wpo.nerc.ac.uk Sun May 14 13:34:02 EDT 1995
Article: 191 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!demon!uknet!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!nerc-keyworth!whpc026.nerc-wareham.ac.uk!stu
From: stu@wpo.nerc.ac.uk (Stu Clough)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Pond Fertilization Info?
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 13:21:39
Organization: Natural Environment Reseach Council
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <stu.11.000D5CC5@wpo.nerc.ac.uk>
References: <3oamqu$t4p@wrdis02.robins.af.mil> <3oc9s1$s44@baygull.rtd.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: whpc026.nerc-wareham.ac.uk
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]


>>
>>--
>>I'm looking for information about how much fertilizer per acre to use
>>in a small pond to help control the existing moss.  Currently, the
>>water is very clear, and a large build up of moss covers the bottom
>>and the bank edges.  Any info is appreciated...
>>
>You want to put fertilizer in a pond to reduce moss biomass?  Fertilizer?
>Are you sure you mean fertilizer?  You know that stuff with nitrates,
>phosphates, etc?  I could be mistaken but I thought fertilizer helped floral
>growth, and was not used to control biomass. 

I think I understand!!  The basic principle is to increase the amount of 
algae, in turn increasing the turbidity, and therefore the amount of light 
penetrating to the bottom, thus controlling the existing moss.  Plant biomass 
will increase, moss biomass will decrease.  I know of a pond where this has 
been tried, and have some data (somewhere!!) on dosage levels.  The 
fertilisation was a complete success, turning a clear pond in which the few 
stunted fish present were cagey and difficult to catch, into a good, well 
stocked fishery, with fish of good average size.

If I can find the figures I'll post them under pond fertilisation dosage 
levels (or similar)

Stu.
 


From CJMOSE@delphi.com Sun May 14 13:34:03 EDT 1995
Article: 192 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.mathworks.com!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: CJMOSE@delphi.com
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Catch & Release
Date: 9 May 1995 03:18:28 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <3ommu4$d1h@news1.delphi.com>
References: <3ohivu$a43@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com

Quoting jcook from a message in sci.bio.fisheries
 jc: Path:
 jc:news1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!uunet!news1.digex.net!news3.digex.net!d
 jc:igex.net!not-for-mail From: jcook@access5.digex.net (Jeff Cook)
 jc:Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries Subject: Catch & Release
 jc: Date: 7 May 1995 00:40:30 -0400
 jc: Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
 jc: Lines: 25
 jc: Message-ID: <3ohivu$a43@access5.digex.net>
 jc: NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net
 jc: Yes, this message really involves fisheries...
 jc: I just came back to fishing after 20+ years, a friend is getting me
 jc:into fly-fishing. I've just read an article in FLY ROD & REEL MAGAZINE
 jc:(April 95) discouraging catch & release fishing.
            <<<deletions>>>
 jc:The title of the article is 'Killing Your
 jc: Share' and states..."Take a look at the angling regulations on the
 jc:waters you fish, think through what they are apparently trying to
 jc:achieve and, if you're satisfied that the goals are being reached, go
 jc:ahead and kill accordingly."
            <<<deletions>>>
>From  what I understand, the issue is primarily one of "quality" versus
quantity from the sportfisher's perspective. Populations managed with a
simple size minimum for harvest develop a paucity of older, larger fish over
the size limit. The fishing pressure "crops down" the population to that
size year after year, and few fish survive into the larger size category.
(And the ones that do have learned to avoid fishing lures.)

To promote more larger fish in a population, managers have experimented with
"slot-limits," which prohibit keeping fish within a certain range, i.e.,
between 11 and 15 in. for largemouth bass. They hope that the large
population of 10-11 in bass will be thinned by fishing pressure, which will
leave the larger bass and also give them more of the food forage base to
grow even larger. Unfortunately, many places that have tried slot limits
have found that anglers release bass regardless of size. Many slot limits
turn out in practice to be essentially catch and release (except for fish
larger than the upper slot, the trophy fish). The goal of thinning the
overabundant smaller fish often goes unfulfilled.

But many argue that this is not all bad, especially anglers who like to
catch a lot of fish and don't object that they are not very large. With a
pure catch and release situation you do get a lot of fish that do not grow
to their full potential, but still may be a lot of fun to catch.

So, in short, if the regs say you can take fish, take em if you want em to
eat. You'll have to decide for yourself whether you want quantity of
"quality" and whether you want to clean em!

Charles Moseley
cjmose@delphi.com

Rainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Test Drive



From CJMOSE@delphi.com Sun May 14 13:34:04 EDT 1995
Article: 193 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: CJMOSE@delphi.com
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: smallmouth x largemouth hybrid
Date: 9 May 1995 03:18:48 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <3ommuo$d1h@news1.delphi.com>
References: <3objis$hbi@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com

 wp: If this is the research I am thinking of it would have been
 wp: conducted about 10 years ago and was nicknamed the Mean Mouth Bass. The
 wp: feelings of the reaearcher at that time were that the fish was so
 wp: aggressive that it would be fished out if not released at a high
 wp: percentage and also a large portion of the fry died due to ingesting
 wp: prey too large to swallow.

I've taken the excellent, if shortsighted, advice of an e-mail respondent
and checked the original publication.  The article is "Bass Genetics as
Applied to Culture and Management" by William F. Childers in Black Bass
Biology and Management edited by Henry Clepper and published by the Sport
Fishing Institute, Washington, D.C. in 1975.

In his article, Childers describes the extraordinarily agressive behavior of
hatchery-produced hybrids (smallmouth males crossed with largemouth female)
that were kept in ponds. They routinely bit swimmers. This was annoying when
they were small but as they grew to about a pound were able to "lacerate the
skin." He recounts and attack upon a female swimmer who was wearing a
brightly colored swimsuit. Fish jumped from the water and struck her in the
head. He also recounts an incident in which a dog was attacked by these
fish. They jumped from the water and smashed into the dog. He also recounts
trying to inspect a nest and being unable to chase a guarding male away. He
thrashed at the fish with the tip of his fishing rod and the fish responded
by biting his legs.

I have to admit that I found this report to be fascinating. It was a little
disconcerting to find that, instead of seeing this as a possible threat to
the well being of the farm-pond-swimming public, Childers wondered whether
this was the birth of an extraordinary sport fish!

So, I did a little more research to see if any fishery biologist had been
intrigued by this behavior and what it might mean in the larger context of
things. Well, I have been disappointed in the curiosity of fishery
biologists. After all, this was 20 years ago! This was no tabloid report of
KILLER FISH, but a well-respected researher with some pretty provocative
personal esperience.

All I could find in the literature was a report by a state agency
evaluating the sportfish potential of the hybrid. They concluded that it
wasn't a decidedly better sport fish. But what AMAZED me was that, although
they noted the Childers report of agressiveness in their introduction, they
never addressed the question of agressive behavior in the report. Didn't
they have any curiosity about these fish? Did anybody get in the water to
see if what Childers reported was the case? You couldn't find out from the
report? Is this what science is all about?

Charles Moseley
cjmose@delphi.com

Rainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Test Drive



From necron@lakes.trenton.sc.us Sun May 14 13:34:05 EDT 1995
Article: 194 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!zeno.nscf.org!lakes!necron
From: necron@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Lord Necron)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Water Plants in ponds and their benifits.
Date: 8 May 1995 22:51:05 -0000
Organization: Lakes Public Access
Lines: 14
Sender: bbs@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Message-ID: <TV1s5c1w165w@lakes.trenton.sc.us>
Reply-To: necron@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Lord Necron)
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.trenton.sc.us

A mistake many fishfarmers make here in the South  is to delete and hold 
back the growth of aquatic plants.what they prefer is an empty hole of 
water with a thousand or so catfish,bream,bass,ect.
They never realise the potential for growth these fish have if their 
inviroment contains plant life.Plant life sustains crayfish,freshwater 
shrimp,snails,all contributing to the growth of these fish.
Back in april I went to an old Oxe bow of the Savannah River that was 
surrounded by old cypress trees and multitude of plant life in the water.
On that day I caught the biggest damn perch I have ever laid eyes on .
You could allmost put your thumb in his mouth,he was so large.I also 
caught bass and crappie ( monster size) all on the same little lure.
What I learned that day was that if you wanted pond fish to reach their 
potential,plant life was a must.If you use lillies that have the pink 
blooms you can easily sell the offspring for 10-20.00 each.


From necron@lakes.trenton.sc.us Sun May 14 13:34:05 EDT 1995
Article: 195 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!zeno.nscf.org!lakes!necron
From: necron@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Lord Necron)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: color inhancement of red tiger oscars
Date: 7 May 1995 20:19:39 -0000
Organization: Lakes Public Access
Lines: 14
Sender: bbs@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Message-ID: <TaZq5c1w165w@lakes.trenton.sc.us>
Reply-To: necron@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Lord Necron)
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.trenton.sc.us

I have a large breeding pair of red tiger oscars that are a breeding 
pair.
I presently have three seperate spawns of fish plus one new spawn of 
eggs.
My thirty day old fry reached selling size at about an inch but no red 
pigmentation like mon and dad.I have looked for answers from everywhere 
short of calling Singapore (where babies are farmed and allready are red 
by the time they are quarter size.) I have been told that hormones are 
used on the fish in their early stages to bring out the red coloration.
Surely such men who post from such lofty hieghts such as Woods hole will 
have such elemental knowledge and will be of service.
any comments will be apreciated.
Also I have a group of Australian Red claw crayfish that I am going to 
breed in the future. and would like info on this species.


From elassoma@cris.com Sun May 14 13:34:06 EDT 1995
Article: 196 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!vtc.tacom.army.mil!news1.oakland.edu!warp.cris.com!usenet
From: elassoma@cris.com
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,sci.bio.fisheries,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.brazil,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.venezuela
Subject: Piranha Lore Wanted
Date: 8 May 1995 12:23:31 GMT
Organization: Captive Maintenance Research
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3ol2g3$ad0@warp.cris.com>
Reply-To: elassoma@cris.com
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X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.09
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.anthropology:14476 sci.bio.fisheries:196 soc.culture.bolivia:3717 soc.culture.brazil:29918 soc.culture.colombia:6271 soc.culture.venezuela:31515



I am collecting any information that I can find on local customs, ceremony, 
and lore and legend that surround the carnivorous, South American family of 
fish (Serrasalmidae), that includes the Piranha.

I am compiling this information for a book that I am writing on Piranha and
their relatives.

I could even use some of those special local recipes for cooking these fine 
fish!

Any comment or reply is appreciated.  Email is preferred.


+---------------------------------------------------------+

Rodney W. Harper
Writer, Scientist, Philosopher, and connoisseur of exquisite fast foods.
Grand Bay, Alabama
Elassoma@cris.com
+---------------------------------------------------------+



From burrows@bcu.ubc.ca Sun May 14 13:34:07 EDT 1995
Article: 197 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!unixg.ubc.ca!burrows
From: burrows@bcu.ubc.ca (Jeff Burrows)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: color inhancement of red tiger oscars
Date: 8 May 1995 17:58:05 GMT
Organization: BioSciences Computing Unit
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3olm3d$q16@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>
References: <TaZq5c1w165w@lakes.trenton.sc.us>
NNTP-Posting-Host: light.bcu.ubc.ca

In article <TaZq5c1w165w@lakes.trenton.sc.us>,
Lord Necron <necron@lakes.trenton.sc.us> wrote:
>I have a large breeding pair of red tiger oscars that are a breeding 
>pair.
...
>any comments will be apreciated.

Maybe try:
alt.aquaria
rec.aquaria
sci.aquaria
	-Jeff.


From birdie@netcom.com Sun May 14 13:34:08 EDT 1995
Article: 198 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!netcom.com!birdie
From: birdie@netcom.com (Kathleen Ostridge)
Subject: Squaw fish invasion
Message-ID: <birdieD89wxJ.DyF@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 19:03:19 GMT
Lines: 24
Sender: birdie@netcom19.netcom.com


Someone introduced Squaw fish into the Eel River in Northern California. 
They are not native and they are direct conflicyt with the Salmon 
population as they eat baby Salmon. The Salmon population is near 
extinction due to logging, overfishing, water diversion, and...the Squaw
fish.

Any ideas on how to eradicate the non-native Squaw Fish and/or
control them? Is there any way to place sterilized stock in with the 
others to fool them into thinking they are breeding when all eggs will be 
in fact infertile?

Poison has been suggested and is NOT an option, and the latest is a 
campaign to get people out to fish for them. A contest for whoever 
catches the most might work out well, and, it would be nice to find a way to
catch them in big sweeps, but, I am afraid it will take more than that...

Any ideas?


-- 
"A few more trips around the sun & my face will look like a fault map!" 
                                                  
                                                  - birdie@netcom.com


From luc@aim.unizh.ch Sun May 14 13:34:09 EDT 1995
Article: 199 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,sci.bio.fisheries,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.brazil,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.venezuela
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From: luc@aim.unizh.ch (Leuzinger)
Subject: Re: Piranha Lore Wanted
Message-ID: <1995May9.184908.21768@rzu-news.unizh.ch>
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elassoma@cris.com wrote:


> I am collecting any information that I can find on local customs, ceremony, 
> and lore and legend that surround the carnivorous, South American family of 
> fish (Serrasalmidae), that includes the Piranha.

Famous is the "sopa de piranha", a soup that is supposed to give new 
strenghs to "tired" men ...
When we go to the Pantanal, and we have no better fish, we frie the 
piranha. You just have to cut up the whole side of the fish as many times 
as possible, so you break up the "spines" (?). Then it's even a delicious 
fish ...

> I am compiling this information for a book that I am writing on Piranha and
> their relatives.

> I could even use some of those special local recipes for cooking these fine 
> fish!

> Any comment or reply is appreciated.  Email is preferred.


> +---------------------------------------------------------+

> Rodney W. Harper
> Writer, Scientist, Philosopher, and connoisseur of exquisite fast foods.
> Grand Bay, Alabama
> Elassoma@cris.com
> +---------------------------------------------------------+



From san@nexuseur.demon.co.uk Sun May 14 13:34:10 EDT 1995
Article: 200 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: san@nexuseur.demon.co.uk (San Takashima)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Horseshoe Crab
Date: 10 May 1995 19:11:08 +0100
Organization: Nexus Network
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Dear sirs,
I'm looking for 2 persons named
C.N. Shoester (or may spell Schuster?) from William & Mary College
M. Orton from Fordham College(?)

They study about Horseshoe Crab.
Does anyone know about these people pr some people who study Horseshoe
Crab (Limulus)?

San Takashima
san@nexnet.com


From san@nexuseur.demon.co.uk Sun May 14 13:34:10 EDT 1995
Article: 201 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: san@nexuseur.demon.co.uk (San Takashima)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Horseshoe Crab
Date: 10 May 1995 19:12:38 +0100
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Dear sirs,
I'm looking for 2 persons named
C.N. Shoester (or may spell Schuster?) from William & Mary College
M. Orton from Fordham College(?)

They study about Horseshoe Crab.
Does anyone know about these people pr some people who study Horseshoe
Crab (Limulus)?

San Takashima
san@nexnet.com


From the_doctor@netins.net Sun May 14 13:34:11 EDT 1995
Article: 202 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.mathworks.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.netins.net!usenet
From: the_doctor@netins.net
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: PC FISHelp info on the Web
Date: 10 May 1995 19:50:53 GMT
Organization: INS Info Services, Des Moines, IA USA
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <0099026E.45C488FE@netins.net>
References: <3onub6$lch@panix.com>
Reply-To: the_doctor@netins.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.infonet.net

In article <3onub6$lch@panix.com>, das@panix.com (David Staschover) writes:
>Hello,
>
>Please excuse this online ad, but there is a website which contains
>information and a demo of a software program geared specifically for
>commercial fishing. 
>
>The URL is http://www.webscope.com/fishelp/info.html
>
>

I downloaded it but from what i can tell its only good for fishing ships.

		The_Doctor@Netins.Net 



From gcouger@olesun.agen.okstate.edu Sun May 14 13:34:12 EDT 1995
Article: 203 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: gcouger@jsun.okstate.edu (Gordon Couger)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Pond Fertilization Info?
Date: 9 May 1995 03:56:26 GMT
Organization: Biosystems and Agricultural Engineering
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <3omp5a$sde@bubba.ucc.okstate.edu>
References: <3oamqu$t4p@wrdis02.robins.af.mil> <3oc9s1$s44@baygull.rtd.com>
Reply-To: Gordon Couger <gcouger@olesun.agen.okstate.edu>=
NNTP-Posting-Host: jsun.agen.okstate.edu

In article <3oc9s1$s44@baygull.rtd.com>,
Robert Dejournett <hermes@rtd.com> wrote:
>In article <3oamqu$t4p@wrdis02.robins.af.mil>,
>GS-334-12 Danny Churchwell <dchurchw@robins.af.mil> wrote:
>>I'm looking for information about how much fertilizer per acre to use
>>in a small pond to help control the existing moss.  Currently, the
>>water is very clear, and a large build up of moss covers the bottom
>>and the bank edges.  Any info is appreciated...
>>
>You want to put fertilizer in a pond to reduce moss biomass?  Fertilizer?
>Are you sure you mean fertilizer?  You know that stuff with nitrates,
>phosphates, etc?  I could be mistaken but I thought fertilizer helped floral
>growth, and was not used to control biomass.  Anyways how eutrophic is your
>pond?  How much phosphates etc does it have?  Phosphate content is an 
>indication of how 'rich' a pond is, if there is too much (i.e. because of
>external pollution) there tends to be problems with algae, they are in
>very high numbers and cause all sorts of problems.  

Proper fertilization will allow alge to grow in the water greatly reducing
the clarity which will block the sunlight from the bottom decreasing the
depth that the weed can grow in. 

As I recall you should only be able to see a tin can lid at 12 to 14 inches
of depth of a properly fertilized pond. Contact your local extension agent
for more up to date info.

In my experiance ectreemly clear water has a high mineral or salt content
causing the silt to fall out much faster than in soft water. Be careful
adding fertilizer particularly in hot months it can use up all the 02
in the water.

Gordon

                            Gordon Couger                            
                            Biosystems & Agricultural Engineering              
                            Oklahoma State University                         
                            114 Ag Hall, Stillwater, OK  74074                 
gcouger@agen.okstate.edu 405-744-9763 day 624-2855 evenings 
    I do not speak for my employer


From das@panix.com Sun May 14 13:34:13 EDT 1995
Article: 204 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.mathworks.com!panix!not-for-mail
From: das@panix.com (David Staschover)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: PC FISHelp info on the Web
Date: 9 May 1995 10:31:02 -0400
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
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Hello,

Please excuse this online ad, but there is a website which contains
information and a demo of a software program geared specifically for
commercial fishing. 

The URL is http://www.webscope.com/fishelp/info.html

David Staschover
das@panix.com



From dfready@delphi.com Sun May 14 13:34:14 EDT 1995
Article: 205 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: dfready@delphi.com (Douglas Ready)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,sci.bio.fisheries,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.c
Subject: Re: Piranha Lore Wanted
Date: 9 May 1995 23:19:41 GMT
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.anthropology:14552 sci.bio.fisheries:205 soc.culture.bolivia:3781

Here's a popular saying about piranhas in the Northeast ( maybe elsewhere,
too ):

"Where there are piranhas, the alligator swims on his back"  

I have never actually observed this behavior, but I have been assured that
if you see alligators swimming on their backs, you should stay out of the
water.  


One more:  In some parts of Brasil the term "piranha" is applied to certain
           women of ill repute.
 

                           Regards,
                                  Douglas Ready



From scaldwell@dow.com Sun May 14 13:34:15 EDT 1995
Article: 206 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: scaldwell@dow.com (stevec)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Catch & Release
Date: 11 May 1995 15:14:03 GMT
Organization: Dow Chemical, Plaquemine LA
Lines: 47
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In article <3ohivu$a43@access5.digex.net>, jcook@access5.digex.net (Jeff Cook) writes:
Jeff Cook wrote:
snip--snip
>The reasoning is that when an area 
>has a kill-limit for a particluar species, it's because they really do want 
>to thin out that part of the population...and to return all fish to the 
>water is pretty much irresponsible. If you read the article, you'll see I'm 
>not overstating the author's opinion.
>
>Is there any sense among the bio-management specialists here that this 
>is an appropriate attitude? The author names shifting balances in 
>species populations and reproductive ages, disease, additive vs. 
>compensatory mortality, etc. 
snip--snip
>Jeff Cook
>
Well, a long time ago I had an undergraduate zoology project that involved 
population biology. I was supposed to write a simple computer model based on
different literature references that took into account food supply and
predator population. The target species was deer and the predator was cougar,
as well as I can remember (since 1975). The approach was very simplistic, but
I can tell you it was an eye-opener to me. With out predation, the population
 vs time graph tended to take on a very exaggerated saw tooth patten due to 
over population followed by famine and collapse of the deer population. It
really resembled the population response seen in the tragic African fammines.
It did not address the issues of size or permanent damage to the eco system. 

My experience with farm ponds has mirrored
the model pretty well, with a much more complex response. When predators were
introduced, the population smoothed out, and the population of deer and cougar
followed a staggered wave pattern. The assumptions of the model did not address
the disappearence of the deer from over predation. 

As a consequence, I have taught my children catch-and-kill small sunfish in 
ponds and lakes. Over population has been the bane of almost all good ponds
and lakes I have fished. It is necessary to consider the eco system and the 
species when making a decision, but I generally favor releasing the large fish
(the predators) and killing the small fish, especially where there is low
fishing pressure.

My brother is an experienced fisheries scientist (PhD) and has a similar
view. It is not just a simple question with a simple answer, contrary to 
what bureaucrats and lawmakers may think. If you are fishing and catching 
a *lot* of small fish (relative), think about killing rather than releasing,
if the law allows it. 

Steve C


From CJMOSE@delphi.com Sun May 14 13:34:15 EDT 1995
Article: 207 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: CJMOSE@delphi.com
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: purse seine buyout
Date: 11 May 1995 22:30:23 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <3ou35v$j25@news1.delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com

I've missed a lot of the exchange about the buyout of the yellowfin
commercial take off of Virginia Beach and I'd like to ask the group's
indulgence for a few questions that I have that might be replowing old
ground. I'll format this post as statements and questions.

As far as I know the issue of allocation of yellowfin tuna between 3 and 200
miles off the coast is the responsibility of the Secretary of Commerce (and
thus the NMFS). They can allocate the catch permited by ICCAT. So, is this
"agreement" a U.S. allocation decision, based upon a "private" agreement?

If this is so, will such an allocation agreement be binding upon commercial
fishers other than the ones involved in last years take off Virginia?

The money amount that has been mentioned--$350,000. Who is to receive that
amount. Each fishing boat? Any boat that expresses an interest in fishing
those waters? Some fund? I'd like some details.

What is the involvement of the Mid-Atlantic Fisheries Management Council?

Who negotiated this deal?

What is the authority for requiring a "stamp" for recreational fishers?

How are the monies to be transferred between the "public" (stamp purchasers)
and the "buyoutees" (the commercials, however many they are)? Who
distributes it and how?

Is this the kind of precedent that we want to establish for allocation
decisions? Some would say, YES, it's the marketplace at work. Others would
say it's blackmail at work, under government approval.

Is this a version of the government (the public) (recreational fishers)
paying the commercials for "not fishing"?

This whole deal seem so bizarre to me. I'd like to get some detailed
responses (or at least some pointers to where I could find out, since I know
there has been a lot of discussion about this prior to my involvement).
Thanks again. This has been an incredibly productive thread.

Charles Moseley
cjmose@delphi.com

Rainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Test Drive



From georgen@agora.rdrop.com Sun May 14 13:34:16 EDT 1995
Article: 208 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
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From: georgen@agora.rdrop.com (George Nandor)
Subject: Re: Squaw fish invasion
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Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 04:19:30 GMT
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Kathleen Ostridge (birdie@netcom.com) wrote:

: Someone introduced Squaw fish into the Eel River in Northern California. 
: They are not native and they are direct conflicyt with the Salmon 
: population as they eat baby Salmon. The Salmon population is near 
: extinction due to logging, overfishing, water diversion, and...the Squaw
: fish.

: Any ideas on how to eradicate the non-native Squaw Fish and/or
: control them? Is there any way to place sterilized stock in with the 
: others to fool them into thinking they are breeding when all eggs will be 
: in fact infertile?

: Poison has been suggested and is NOT an option, and the latest is a 
: campaign to get people out to fish for them. A contest for whoever 
: catches the most might work out well, and, it would be nice to find a way to
: catch them in big sweeps, but, I am afraid it will take more than that...

: Any ideas?

On the Columbia River they offer a bounty of $3.00 for each squawfish 
over 10 inches or some length like that.  Seems to have dramatically 
reduced the spawning population!  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over
 	if you just sit there."
						--Will Rogers

	George F. Nandor		georgen@agora.rdrop.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From CJMOSE@delphi.com Sun May 14 13:34:17 EDT 1995
Article: 209 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: CJMOSE@delphi.com
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: purse seine buyout
Date: 11 May 1995 08:25:24 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <3oshlk$eml@news1.delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com

I've missed a lot of the exchange about the buyout of the yellowfin
commercial take off of Virginia Beach and I'd like to ask the group's
indulgence for a few questions that I have that might be replowing old
ground. I'll format this post as statements and questions.

As far as I know the issue of allocation of yellowfin tuna between 3 and 200
miles off the coast is the responsibility of the Secretary of Commerce (and
thus the NMFS). They can allocate the catch permited by ICCAT. So, is this
"agreement" a U.S. allocation decision, based upon a "private" agreement?

If this is so, will such an allocation agreement be binding upon commercial
fishers other than the ones involved in last years take off Virginia?

The money amount that has been mentioned--$350,000. Who is to receive that
amount. Each fishing boat? Any boat that expresses an interest in fishing
those waters? Some fund? I'd like some details.

What is the involvement of the Mid-Atlantic Fisheries Management Council?

Who negotiated this deal?

What is the authority for requiring a "stamp" for recreational fishers?

How are the monies to be transferred between the "public" (stamp purchasers)
and the "buyoutees" (the commercials, however many they are)? Who
distributes it and how?

Is this the kind of precedent that we want to establish for allocation
decisions? Some would say, YES, it's the marketplace at work. Others would
say it's blackmail at work, under government approval.

Is this a version of the government (the public) (recreational fishers)
paying the commercials for "not fishing"?

This whole deal seem so bizarre to me. I'd like to get some detailed
responses (or at least some pointers to where I could find out, since I know
there has been a lot of discussion about this prior to my involvement).
Thanks again. This has been an incredibly productive thread.

Charles Moseley
cjmose@delphi.com

Rainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Test Drive



From mxw@dmu.ac.uk Sun May 14 13:34:18 EDT 1995
Article: 210 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: mxw@dmu.ac.uk (Maxine Wesley)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Humberside College of HE
Date: 11 May 1995 14:01:40 GMT
Organization: De Montfort University, Leicester, UK
Lines: 38
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At last a group for people with an interest in fisheries but may I add
that I hope it evolves into being a usefull forum for discussing all
aspects of the fishing industry and not into yet another 
alt.fish.tank.my.guppie.has.white.spot one. As previously posted there 
are groups already for that sort of talk. 

I am a graduate (B.Sc in Fishery Studies, 1988) of the Humberside College of 
Higher Education, Hull, UK (now the University Of Humberside) who after 
an initial effort to find a job related to my degree has settled down in 
Computing (firstly support, now programming).

I maintain my interest in the subject of fisheries and am curently hoping 
that it will be possible to utilise the computing knowledge I have gained 
in a fishery related post (I dream a lot too!!).

Anyway.. since it is a small group currently howzabout some of you saying 
why you have an interest in this group.. (and if you know of any jobs 
going you can always e-mail me...) 


As far as the Canada/Spain argument went I must say that I supported the 
efforts of the Canadians in this.. our own government penalises it's own 
fishermen here but Spain seem to support theirs by not policing the 
industry to such a rigid extent.. in which case pressure should be 
brought upon all those involved in a fishery to conform to it's rules.. 
else if we are not going to penalise the Spanish for their actions then 
we shouldn't be so strict with our own people.  



Cheerio for now



Maxine


From jjoy@calvin.stemnet.nf.ca Sun May 14 13:34:19 EDT 1995
Article: 211 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: jjoy@calvin.stemnet.nf.ca (Jonathan B. Joy)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Arctic Char Fingerlings 4 sale
Date: 12 May 1995 16:04:43 GMT
Organization: STEM~Net
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Newfoundland, Canada

Arctic char fry and fingerlings for sale

Contact: Graham Bailey  phone: 709 464 3555


From markh@mcdata.com Sun May 14 13:34:19 EDT 1995
Article: 212 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: markh@mcdata.com (Mark Henrichs)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Stocking new small mountain pond
Date: 12 May 1995 16:27:38 GMT
Organization: McDATA Corporation
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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We have just built a small pond (about 70' by 120') by damming up a small 
stream that runs year-around.  The stream comes from runoff and several 
small springs.  The deepest water is about 10' deep near the dam, and 
gradually slopes up to the inlet where the stream falls about a foot to the 
pond surface level.  We live at about 8,400' in the Rocky Mountains.

We would like to stock trout in this pond, and hopefully breed them.  The 
local fishery suggested brown and rainbow, but expected the brown to 
dominate eventually.  However, they were doubtful that we would ever be able 
to have them breed.  The entrance to the pond was made intentionally shallow 
(3 to 12 feet wide, about 20' long, a few inches deep) so we could try 
putting gravel here for breeding.

Is this a futile attempt?  Does anyone have any suggestions about how we 
might try to get trout to breed here?  Would other types of fish do better?

Any suggestions on how we could stock this pond to keep it clear from algae 
and weeds, but in a natural way (no chemicals that would harm the 
environment)?  Are there fish that would co-exist with the trout that would 
help keep down plant overgrowth?

Any suggestions for a good reference book on this topic?

-- 
  | |  Mark Henrichs      ___ http://www.mcdata.com/~meh0045/mark_h.html  |
 /| |  McDATA Corporation ___ http://www.mcdata.com/                      |
/ +-+--------------------                        Boulder, Colorado   USA  |
  | |  markh@mcdata.com            *** Opinions expressed are my own *****'



From pha6wf@leeds.ac.uk Sun May 14 13:34:20 EDT 1995
Article: 213 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,sci.bio.fisheries,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.c
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From: pha6wf@leeds.ac.uk (W. Falcone)
Subject: Re: Piranha Lore Wanted
Message-ID: <pha6wf.40.000E2CDB@leeds.ac.uk>
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Organization: University of Leeds
Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 14:11:15 +0100 (BST)
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    <9505091859592.DLITE.dfready@delphi.com>
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.anthropology:14594 sci.bio.fisheries:213 soc.culture.bolivia:3808

In article <9505091859592.DLITE.dfready@delphi.com> dfready@delphi.com (Douglas Ready) writes:

>"Where there are piranhas, the alligator swims on his back"  

>I have never actually observed this behavior, but I have been assured that
>if you see alligators swimming on their backs, you should stay out of the
>water.  
Being Brasilian I can confirm the saying but I've never observed that 
behaviour in caymans either.  I'll keep watching...

>One more:  In some parts of Brasil the term "piranha" is applied to certain
>           women of ill repute.
In some places in Brasil I have observed men swim on their backs  (or 
whatever the dry land equivalent may be...)

Waldemar



From grenard@herpmed.com Sun May 14 13:34:21 EDT 1995
Article: 214 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.bio.herp,sci.bio.fisheries,rec.pets.herp,bionet.general
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!noc.netcom.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!citicorp.com!spcuna!news2.new-york.net!news
From: grenard@herpmed.com
Subject: revised snakebite webpage/poisons database
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Thanks to the many excellent suggestions posted to me by readers,
the NA Snakebite webpage has been slightly revised in several areas
and linked to the international Poisons Database, a series of pages
which contains a list of all venomous species worldwide, antivenom sources,
as well as listings of toxinologists and poison control centers.
This partially alleviates my earlier concerns for providing information
on species exotic to us in the USA as well as to field workers and residents 
in foreign locales. The revised URL is::

http://www.xmission.com/~gastown/herpmed/snbite.rev

The issue of using pressure dressings and elastic bandaging on bites by
species with proteolytic action was recently addressed by Norris and Minton
in Vol6,No6 of Vivarium where they urge caution. There is a trade-off in
using the methods advocated in Australia for bites by their native species.
That trade-off may indeed include increased risk of local tissue damage
versus allowing the venom to reach vital organs. In any life or death
situation such factors must be weighed.    The technique is harmless if
little or no envenomation has ocurred. If significant envenomation
has ocurred it could be life saving. There is a gray area in-between where
local tissue damage may be incurred needlessly.  It is, in my opinion,
impossible to speculate on which of these three scenarios a victim may
face.  Therefore the webpage continues to recommend the Australian
method as the safest course of action in a potentially life threatening
bite. We have added the use of the Sawyer Extractor on a try-basis for
up to l-minute although there is no convincing evidence it is
entirely efficacious.  The earlier claims about the vast amount of
suction (1 atmosphere) it can generate continues to concern me. This
amount of vacuum is, according to the laws of physics, theoretically
impossible. If the amount of vacuum is even near that much, however,          
you risk closing/sealing the fang track. The page recommends free bleeding of  
bite first followed by no more than a minute's worth of attempt with the
extractor. If the wound is bleeding at all by itself at least the
extractor would not prevent the bleeding and it may work for a short time 
afterwards to remove some additional fluid/blood/venom from the bite
site.  If it is to be used at all, it should be done after allowing
free-bleeding and only for a few trys. The presence of a straight edged
razor blade in the extractor kit should NOT be construed as an invitation
to incise or cut into the flesh around the bite site. It is 
there to prep the skin around the bite (shaving hair off).  Hair around
the bite could prevent an effective seal between extractor and skin
surface.  

I look forward to continuinng this dialogue either on the public forum
of the two herp newsgroups or via private e-mail as one would prefer.

Steve Grenard
grenard@herpmed.com





















I look forward to a continuing dialogue on these subjects either in
the public forum of sci.bio.herp or rec.pet.herp or via e-mail.



 




 
As further improvements to this and linked pages are made I
will continue to report them. Again thank you to all who have 
responded with comments and suggestions.

NEW URL:

http://www.xmission.com/~gastown/herpmed/snbite.rev



Steve Grenard




From smj94002@uconnvm.uconn.edu Sun May 14 13:34:22 EDT 1995
Article: 215 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!paperboy.uconn.edu!raymond.sfa.uconn.edu!user
From: smj94002@uconnvm.uconn.edu ()
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Tilapia?
Followup-To: sci.bio.fisheries
Date: 10 May 1995 23:12:48 GMT
Organization: University of Connecticut
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <smj94002-100595191054@raymond.sfa.uconn.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: raymond.sfa.uconn.edu

Could anyone tell me about the new craze in Tilapia breeding?  It seems
that they are becoming very popular on the market.  Where are they native
to?  Size?  Flavor?  Salt or fresh water?  Any other info would be greatly
appreciated.
																																						Thanks,
																																											Steve Jordan
Email if you prefer


From the_doctor@netins.net Sun May 14 13:34:22 EDT 1995
Article: 216 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.netins.net!usenet
From: the_doctor@netins.net
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Catfish Farming
Date: 13 May 1995 10:03:55 GMT
Organization: INS Info Services, Des Moines, IA USA
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <00990477.C6BE58D0@netins.net>
Reply-To: the_doctor@netins.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.infonet.net

is ther anyone out there that farms catfish???

		The_Doctor@Netins.Net 


From dave@midnite.advance.com Sun May 14 13:34:23 EDT 1995
Article: 217 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!lgc.com!nntpserver.lgc.com!dave
From: dave@midnite.advance.com (Dave Diller)
Subject: Rogue River studies?
Message-ID: <DAVE.95May11103018@midnite.advance.com>
Sender: usenet@lgc.com
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Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 16:30:17 GMT
Lines: 5

Is anyone out there studying the Rogue River in Oregon?  (Particularly
the decline of the steelhead)?  If so, send me a note and I'll tell
you more about what my interests are.

				- Dave Diller


From JRC@OITVMS.OIT.UMASS.EDU Sun May 14 13:34:24 EDT 1995
Article: 218 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.mathworks.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.umass.edu!nic.umass.edu!usenet
From: JRC@OITVMS.OIT.UMASS.EDU (JOHN RICE COLE)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: tilapia
Date: 13 May 1995 19:07:35 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Amherst
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X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS v1.25

A local company is about to begin tilapia farming in tanks near here on the
Connecticut River floodplain. Apparently they have Conservation Commission
permission.

Should anyone worry, or have I read one too many Andrew Hall novel?!

--John
jrc@tei.umass.edu


From aqsys@aol.com Sun May 14 13:34:25 EDT 1995
Article: 219 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: aqsys@aol.com (Aqsys)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: White Amur - Isreal Carp
Date: 11 May 1995 20:43:37 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 21
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NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I have run across a situation where a pond owner, 1/2 acre who has just
bought the property, said that the pond was stocked with Israel Carp.  I
had not heard the term Israel Carp for over 20 years and since last I
heard the Israel Carp was a carp that ate vegetation, so I guess that I
have assumed for years that the Israel Carp was just another name for the
White Amur.

Is there a difference between the two or are they the same. From what the
pond owner has told me it sounds like these fish were stocked a couple of
years ago, the pond before this had never had any major algae problems,
now the pond is over run by algae and the owner at a lost as to what to
do.  I recommended that the algae be treated and the White Amur or Israel
Carp be removed and vascular weeds be planted to try and tie up some of
the excess nutrients.  

Is there any way to trap the White Amur, possibly using vascular
vegetation as bait.  The only two other options that I see are to kill off
the pond and restock it or try and seign the carp out.  Any suggestions or
observations would be appreciated.

Scott Seymour.


From grenard@herpmed.com Sun May 14 13:34:26 EDT 1995
Article: 220 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.med.pathology,sci.bio.herp,sci.bio.fisheries,rec.pets.herp,bionet.virology,bionet.parasitology,bionet.microbiology,bionet.general
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!rutgers!spcuna!news2.new-york.net!news
From: grenard@herpmed.com
Subject: Venomnous Snakebite WebPage
Nntp-Posting-Host: herpmed.com
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.med.pathology:456 sci.bio.herp:2637 sci.bio.fisheries:220 rec.pets.herp:34873 bionet.virology:2642 bionet.parasitology:683 bionet.microbiology:2092 bionet.general:14120


North American Venomous Snakebite- Emergency First Aid Web Page 

Several people with Netscape wrote to say they could not properly
access this page unless there was an htm or html tag attached.

Therefore, please be advised that the URL for this Web site has
now been modified and may be accessed as follows. I hope that this
modification will make the WebPage accessible by all Web Browsers
including Netscape.  Please contact the undersigned if there are
difficulties so they can be addressed. 

http://www.xmission.com/~gastown/herpmed/snbite.htm



Thank you for your attention and kind assistance in this project.

Steve Grenard
grenard@herpmed.com



From stewart@bud.peinet.pe.ca Sun May 14 13:34:27 EDT 1995
Article: 221 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!torn!news.unb.ca!cycor.ca!cycor.ca!not-for-mail
From: stewart@bud.peinet.pe.ca (Paul Stewart)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Koi?
Date: 14 May 1995 13:09:52 -0400
Organization: PEINet, Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada
Lines: 18
Sender: stewart@bud.peinet.pe.ca
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3p5a0g$ove@bud.peinet.pe.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bud.peinet.pe.ca

Does anyone have info or a contact for raising or otherwise dealing with 
Koi (sp?)?  I am searching info for a local biotech firm using this 
species for production of vaccine. Contact me directly or through this 
list. Also, is there a newsgroup for aquaculture I can post this to? Any 
Web sites would be appreciated too.

I am currently self-employed as a consultant biochemist for the growing 
aquaculture industry here, including fin-fish (so far, all salmonids). 
Anyone else out there with similar interests or in a similar position, I 
would love to hear from you. Need to expand my list of contacts, and this 
is the place to do it.

ABIOGEN c/o Paul Stewart
RR #2 Vernon Bridge
Prince Edward Island
CANADA   C0A 2E0
stewart@bud.peinet.pe.ca
(902) 651-3163


From td_hartzog@pnl.gov. Sun May 28 23:10:07 EDT 1995
Article: 257 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!osi-east2.es.net!oracle.pnl.gov!bbs.pnl.gov!news
From: td_hartzog@pnl.gov. (Tim Hartzog)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Stocking new small mountain pond
Date: 22 May 1995 15:26:06 GMT
Organization: Battelle Pacific Northwest Labs
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <3pqaee$ih4@bbs.pnl.gov>
References: <3p029q$sna@newsit2.mcdata.com> <3p7laf$ama@spacenns.space.honeywell.com> <3pd2rt$9cs@newsit2.mcdata.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: td_hartzog.pnl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14

(NOTE: everything cut this time)

Sir,

As you do not know myself or what I do or what my beliefs are,
I do care for your implication that I am trying to kill this news
group. It was not snipping. I was only giving someone who had checked his
facts a bravo. I had read your reply as snipping. You stated, and I quote

>I'm curious.  What impact did building the pond have on the wildlife, 
>plantlife and surroundings of the stream in general below you? Any 
>objections from any landowners?  What larger system did it feed and how 
is
>it going to affect it?

. He replied with a FULL reply and not a simple "YES". As I re-read this 
I now see that it was not snipping, merely a question. If I offened you 
I am sorry but I do not like being slandered by someone I do not even 
know. I am not looking for a flame war and will not respond to any flame 
bait. As for my leaving the part in about the army corp. of Eng. I merely 
cut part of the text so as not to repost the whole article. 

>You are not exactly overflowing with 
>activity to the point that you can afford to be quite as elitist as you
>and one or two others would like to be.  The majority on here are not
>only very intelligent, informed individuals; they are quite willing to
discuss issues and share that information.

When did posting lots make people authorities? Did I say anything that 
was elitist? I merely gave someone a bravo for covering all the bases, 
same as you did in the first part of your reply to my post. I am here out 
of curiosity, if this is the response that new people get I can see why 
there are only 25 poeple posting.


Tim
-- 
Opinions are mine and not the people who pay for
my time and existence on this earth.



From dwalker@island.net Sun May 28 23:10:08 EDT 1995
Article: 258 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!news.bc.net!news.island.net!usenet
From: dwalker@island.net (D. Walker)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Creel Surveys
Date: 22 May 1995 12:36:36 GMT
Organization: Island Internet
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3pq0gk$t7t@cliff.island.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip4.island.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.5

Does anyone have any general information on doing "Creel" surveys
(Catch per unit effort) for river(Bar) recreational fisheries.

Just looking for general tips on methodology and potential problems,
secondary (i.e. environmental measurements) and data management.

Any important cites or contacts would be helpful as well.

dwalker@island.net (Nanaimo, BC)



From cjones@rsmas.miami.edu Sun May 28 23:10:09 EDT 1995
Article: 259 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.mathworks.com!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!news.ecn.bgu.edu!newspump.wustl.edu!news.miami.edu!usenet
From: cjones@rsmas.miami.edu (Christopher Jones)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Tag and Release Workshop
Date: 23 May 1995 01:57:41 GMT
Organization: Uni Miami RSMAS
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3prfel$j66@umigw.miami.edu>
References: <3p9904$i6a@umigw.miami.edu>
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X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.5

In article <3p9904$i6a@umigw.miami.edu>, roffer@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu says:
>
>Does anyone know where one can get the results or proceedings of
>the recent workshop held in Virginia on the effects of tag and release.
>
>Thanks
>
>Mitch Roffer
>roffer@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu


The meeting held recently in Virginia Beach (May 8-10) dealt mainly 
with catch and release mortality, as opposed to effects of tagging.  
There was some mention made of mortality due to tagging, but no papers 
dealing directly to the topic.


Christopher Jones
jones@rsmas.miami.edu


From sfsfs@fail.com Sun May 28 23:10:11 EDT 1995
Article: 260 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!x15.pilot.net!newsprime.pilot.net!failure.news.pilot.net!usenet
From: Sarah Stegall <sfsfs@fail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Info on freshwater snails?
Date: 23 May 1995 20:23:51 GMT
Organization: Failure Analysis Associates, Inc.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3ptg8n$i3p@failure.news.pilot.net>
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X-URL: news:sci.bio.fisheries

Hi.  Please excuse me if I am posting to the wrong group.  I am a layman 
doing a little research into freshwater snails and their life cycles, 
with particular reference to breeding and early (larval?) stages.  I am 
NOT a biologist, but can make my way through most college biology texts.  
I would appreciate some references, particularly WWW references, on this 
subject.  Is there a book you have found particularly useful?  a 
pamphlet or other resource?  Please let me know.  You can post a reply 
or e-mail me at

munchkyn@netcom.com

Again, my apologies if this is an intrusion into the wrong group.  
Thanks for any help you can lend me.

Sarah Stegall

P.S. No, this is NOT a school project.




From hank@netcom.com Sun May 28 23:10:12 EDT 1995
From cjones@rsmas.miami.edu Sun May 28 23:14:53 EDT 1995
Article: 259 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.mathworks.com!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!news.ecn.bgu.edu!newspump.wustl.edu!news.miami.edu!usenet
From: cjones@rsmas.miami.edu (Christopher Jones)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Tag and Release Workshop
Date: 23 May 1995 01:57:41 GMT
Organization: Uni Miami RSMAS
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3prfel$j66@umigw.miami.edu>
References: <3p9904$i6a@umigw.miami.edu>
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X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.5

In article <3p9904$i6a@umigw.miami.edu>, roffer@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu says:
>
>Does anyone know where one can get the results or proceedings of
>the recent workshop held in Virginia on the effects of tag and release.
>
>Thanks
>
>Mitch Roffer
>roffer@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu


The meeting held recently in Virginia Beach (May 8-10) dealt mainly 
with catch and release mortality, as opposed to effects of tagging.  
There was some mention made of mortality due to tagging, but no papers 
dealing directly to the topic.


Christopher Jones
jones@rsmas.miami.edu


From sfsfs@fail.com Sun May 28 23:14:54 EDT 1995
Article: 260 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!x15.pilot.net!newsprime.pilot.net!failure.news.pilot.net!usenet
From: Sarah Stegall <sfsfs@fail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Info on freshwater snails?
Date: 23 May 1995 20:23:51 GMT
Organization: Failure Analysis Associates, Inc.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3ptg8n$i3p@failure.news.pilot.net>
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X-URL: news:sci.bio.fisheries

Hi.  Please excuse me if I am posting to the wrong group.  I am a layman 
doing a little research into freshwater snails and their life cycles, 
with particular reference to breeding and early (larval?) stages.  I am 
NOT a biologist, but can make my way through most college biology texts.  
I would appreciate some references, particularly WWW references, on this 
subject.  Is there a book you have found particularly useful?  a 
pamphlet or other resource?  Please let me know.  You can post a reply 
or e-mail me at

munchkyn@netcom.com

Again, my apologies if this is an intrusion into the wrong group.  
Thanks for any help you can lend me.

Sarah Stegall

P.S. No, this is NOT a school project.




From hank@netcom.com Sun May 28 23:14:55 EDT 1995
Article: 261 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!netcom.com!hank
From: hank@netcom.com (Hank Roberts)
Subject: Re: Stocking new small mountain pond: weeding/monitoring?
Message-ID: <hankD8zxsF.2Fu@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <3p029q$sna@newsit2.mcdata.com> <3p7laf$ama@spacenns.space.honeywell.com> <3pd2rt$9cs@newsit2.mcdata.com> <3pqaee$ih4@bbs.pnl.gov>
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 20:19:26 GMT
Lines: 16
Sender: hank@netcom17.netcom.com


I've got four culverts through which about 80-100 acres of high
watershed runoff gets consolidaed -- in starting to try to revegetate,
we're considering small impoundments so as to be able to water into
the dry summertime here (N. Ca. coast range).

This offers the possibility, perhaps, of measuring silt load, capturing
silt below the culverts and trying to spread the water out over the
hillside.

Too remote for a concrete truck; too steep for a dirt dam; too
many thunderstorms to under-design anything else it'll wash out.

Any thoughts welcome.  So far we've just been watching and are
going to set up photo transect posts soon, so we can reconsider over time.



From tad@sdc.cs.boeing.com Sun May 28 23:14:56 EDT 1995
Article: 262 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!bcstec!charlotte!sdc!tad
From: tad@sdc.cs.boeing.com (Tom Drews)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: marking captive fish
Message-ID: <14922@fury.SDC.CS.BOEING.COM>
Date: 22 May 95 18:00:47 GMT
References: <3pisvp$9j5@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <3pm9mg$kk8_001@pgh.nauticom.net>
Organization: Boeing Computer Services (ESP), Seattle, WA
Lines: 3

I don't think fin clipping as a method of id would work in his situation
since he will be studying swimming and the fin clips could have an impact
on the fishes' swimming pattern, performance, etc.


From epigo01@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de Sun May 28 23:14:57 EDT 1995
Article: 263 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-ulm.de!news.belwue.de!news.belwue.de!newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de!commlink!epigo01
From: epigo01@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Onno Gross)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: aquaculture for sea bream and spiny lobster?
Date: 23 May 1995 09:33:54 GMT
Organization: InterNetNews at ZDV Uni-Tuebingen
Lines: 9
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This request was posted to me and I think somebody can help

We would like to know informations about aquaculture for marine fishes,
especially " sea bream" and "spiny lobster".
   I'm student in Departament of Oceanography at Rio de Janeiro State
University, and I'm working with marine fishes aquaculture.
   Thank you,in advance,for your attention

 Gelcilio C. Barros Filho" <@vm.gmd.de:C9312035@BRUERJM.BITNET>.


From drouinl@ERE.UMontreal.CA Sun May 28 23:14:58 EDT 1995
Article: 264 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!CC.UMontreal.CA!drouinl
From: drouinl@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Drouin Louis)
Subject: World Fisheries congress: where?
Message-ID: <D91nEn.7rp@cc.umontreal.ca>
Sender: news@cc.umontreal.ca (Administration de Cnews)
Organization: Universite de Montreal
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 18:30:21 GMT
Lines: 8

I am looking for the Proceedings of the World Fisheries Congress, (1992)
in Athens.  If somebody have any info on these Proceedings, I would be
very grateful

Contact Francis





From td_hartzog@pnl.gov. Sun May 28 23:14:59 EDT 1995
Article: 265 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!osi-east2.es.net!oracle.pnl.gov!bbs.pnl.gov!news
From: td_hartzog@pnl.gov. (Tim Hartzog)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Stocking new small mountain pond
Date: 24 May 1995 15:38:15 GMT
Organization: Battelle Pacific Northwest Labs
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3pvjt7$fo4@bbs.pnl.gov>
References: <3p029q$sna@newsit2.mcdata.com> <3p7laf$ama@spacenns.space.honeywell.com> <3pd2rt$9cs@newsit2.mcdata.com> <3pqaee$ih4@bbs.pnl.gov> <3ptdla$9cp@spacenns.space.honeywell.com>
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Thank you Dan for your apology, accepted and done! :)

I was wondering if Mark would mind answering a few questions,
1> Are you stocking the pond/lake/body of water? If so with what?
2> Do you have to worry about draw down in the spring, what about low 
water in the summer? Is the water line static or is it lowered and raised 
with the flow of water?
3> Which is Better? (anyone who can answer is great!)
4> Do you have to worry about ice? If so does that influence what kind of 
fish should go in there?

I am a self confessed computer/business nerd and have only the talks with 
a friend of mine who has a degree in Marine Biology to prompt these 
questions and I don't even fish! Please be gentle, (G).


-- 
Opinions are mine and not the people who pay for
my time and existence on this earth.



From ihmacrae@comnet.au.ac.th Sun May 28 23:15:00 EDT 1995
Article: 266 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!EU.net!uunet!news.au.ac.th!comnet!ihmacrae
From: ihmacrae@comnet.au.ac.th (Ian H. Macrae)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: tilapia
Date: 25 May 1995 10:12:30 GMT
Organization: AuNet Assumption University
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3q1l6e$9kv@abac.au.ac.th>
References: <3p301n$a8p@nic.umass.edu>
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JOHN RICE COLE (JRC@OITVMS.OIT.UMASS.EDU) wrote:
: A local company is about to begin tilapia farming in tanks near here on the
: Connecticut River floodplain. Apparently they have Conservation Commission
: permission.

: Should anyone worry, or have I read one too many Andrew Hall novel?!

: --John
: jrc@tei.umass.edu

The lowest temperature tolerated by tilapia is 18 deg centigrade. It is a 
tropical/sub tropical species which originated in Africa and the middle 
east. And will grow in fresh and salt water, though it is basically a 
freshwater fish. They are very hardy and breed prolifically, some are 
mouth brooders ie. the mothers carry the young in a mouth pouch until 
free swimming. They are now widely spread throughout central and southern 
America, Africa, the middle east and south and south east asia, as well 
as I believe northern Australia.

Given the above great care should be exercised if intoduced in areas 
within their range - although if it is within their range they are 
probably there already !



From dan.rapp@stpete.honeywell.com Sun May 28 23:15:01 EDT 1995
Article: 267 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!src.honeywell.com!The-Star.honeywell.com!spacenns.space.honeywell.com!usenet
From: dan.rapp@stpete.honeywell.com (DLRapp)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Stocking new small mountain pond
Date: 23 May 1995 19:39:22 GMT
Organization: Honeywell-FL40
Lines: 21
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References: <3p029q$sna@newsit2.mcdata.com> <3p7laf$ama@spacenns.space.honeywell.com> <3pd2rt$9cs@newsit2.mcdata.com> <3pqaee$ih4@bbs.pnl.gov>
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OK, OK, we were both a little touchy.  You stated "BRAVO!!!! Way to cover 
all your bases against just this sort of thing!".  It was a little 
sarcastic; but then so am I. I'll own up to the fact that I overreacted.  
I've noticed a (very) few respondents in here that take offense at the 
"unwashed masses" commenting in this group and find it irritating.  I
included you as one of them after your comment.  Sorry about that.  As far
as slander, hardly.  I will stand by the fact that I think this forum 
needs to develope a more open atmosphere for discussion; dissent and
comments on the dissent.  A number of the people commenting on here have
advanced education in some specialized areas.  Being questioned in an
area of expertise can be irritating.  So can seemingly "stupid questions".

Anyway, I asked the original question only because I wanted to know the
answer.  You took it wrong and reacted accordingly.  I then overreacted 
and acted the same as those I find so irritating.  Basically, we both
were a bit foolish.  I accept your apology and extend mine in return.  Next
time, maybe we can find something really worthy of our somewhat dubious
talents.<grin>  Anyway, glad to have another curious non-expert on the
group.  Definitely quite a bit of good information here.

Dan


From ihmacrae@comnet.au.ac.th Sun May 28 23:15:02 EDT 1995
Article: 268 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!news.au.ac.th!comnet!ihmacrae
From: ihmacrae@comnet.au.ac.th (Ian H. Macrae)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: marking captive fish
Date: 25 May 1995 10:20:09 GMT
Organization: AuNet Assumption University
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3q1lkp$9kv@abac.au.ac.th>
References: <3pisvp$9j5@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>
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David Jones (hallman@bcu.ubc.ca) wrote:
: I need to find out a reliable technique for marking captive fish.  I
: can't use "T-tags" through the epaxial muscle because one of the exp'ts

: I was thinking about "branding" the fish (while anaesthetized) with a
: low power solering iron on the operculum.  I would only need a letter
: or two (just enough for a positive ID).  If anyone has any opinions or
: any suggestions for other techniques please let me know.

You might try freeze branding using a metal "number" cooled in liquid 
nitrogen, this produces a readable brand after a few hours. It is easy to 
produce a set of irons to do this - copper is best.



From ihmacrae@comnet.au.ac.th Sun May 28 23:15:03 EDT 1995
Article: 269 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!uunet!news.au.ac.th!comnet!ihmacrae
From: ihmacrae@comnet.au.ac.th (Ian H. Macrae)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Catfish Farming
Date: 25 May 1995 10:21:13 GMT
Organization: AuNet Assumption University
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3q1lmp$9kv@abac.au.ac.th>
References: <00990477.C6BE58D0@netins.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: comnet.ksc.net.th
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

the_doctor@netins.net wrote:
: is ther anyone out there that farms catfish???

: 		The_Doctor@Netins.Net 

What kind of catfish ?


From brett3@ix.netcom.com Sun May 28 23:15:04 EDT 1995
Article: 270 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: brett3@ix.netcom.com (brett rowley)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries,sci.bio
Subject: Re: tilapia introduction
Date: 25 May 1995 04:58:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 56
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3q12pg$rea@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3p301n$a8p@nic.umass.edu> <3pmboi$qfk@nuscc.nus.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-hou8-08.ix.netcom.com
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.bio.fisheries:270 sci.bio:23803

In <3pmboi$qfk@nuscc.nus.sg> scip3174@solar.cc.nus.sg (N Sivasothi)
writes: 
>
>JOHN RICE COLE (JRC@OITVMS.OIT.UMASS.EDU) wrote:
>: A local company is about to begin tilapia farming in tanks near here
on the
>: Connecticut River floodplain. Apparently they have Conservation
Commission
>: permission.
>
>: Should anyone worry, or have I read one too many Andrew Hall novel?!
>
>Over here in Southeast Asia, these African fish are all over the
place. 
>They are a pest in Singapore resevoirs because they tend to die in
>thousands, polluting the drinking water. But they are food fish in
other
>countries which have freshwater fisheries. 
>
>While there is concern about tilapia outcompeting native fish over
here,
>my impression is that these lacustrine fish are occupying only altered
>habitats, which the endemics have left anyway. We do not have
lacustrine
>fish (I think Southeast Asia does not have old lakes like in Africa),
so
>perhaps they are not a threat to endemics, but merely occupying a
niche
>that would otherwise be empty. 
>
>They cannot penetrate into forest streams due to the acidity, which is

>where endemics 'hang out'.
>
>Is there anyone out there who knows about this?
'm new to this group. I've been hanging out in rec.ponds. I'm a
fisheries biologist/fish culturist in Texas. I've worked with several
species of Tilapia and related fishes for about 15 years. They are all
tropical in nature, but some tolerate cold temperatures better than
others. In Southeast Texas, they will all die off in a hard winter.
They are fairly well established in non-natural heated habitats
(powerplant lakes, well outfalls, other unusually warm waters) and
controversial in this state. They are established in extreme South
Texas. Several farms are producing them here, mostly indoors. The
tilapia are sometimes stocked as bass forage in unheated small (less
than 1000 acres) reservoirs by the owners/fisheries managers. They
become quite numerous in summer and vulnerable to complete predation
when the water cools in winter.  I have never heard of tilapia commonly
overwintering in unheated areas North of Interstat 10 or a line from
Houston through San Antonio. Most have a lower lethal limit of about 50
degrees F. I don't believe that they could become a problem in unheated
waters North of Texas. I tend to believe the disturbed habitat/invader
theory postulated here. Not too many natural water habitats left in
Texas, many, many, heated reservoirs built in riverbeds where tilapia
thrive. Hope I wasn't too long winded, and Helpfull.
                   Brett


From ALAN_SIMCOE@MINDLINK.BC.CA Sun May 28 23:15:05 EDT 1995
Article: 271 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!line08.pm1.nwm.mindlink.net!ALAN_SIMCOE
From: ALAN_SIMCOE@MINDLINK.BC.CA (ALAN SIMCOE)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Acceptable Suspended Sediment levels
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 14:28:37
Organization: MIND LINK! Communications Corp.
Lines: 5
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NNTP-Posting-Host: line08.pm1.nwm.mindlink.net
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

I am looking for information on the suspended sediment levels tolerated by 
Rainbow Trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss), Bull trout (Salvelinus confluentus) and 
Mountain whitefish (Prosopium williamsoni).  If anyone has some references 
which quantify the acceptable levels I would appreciate hearing about them.  I 
can be reached at my e-mail: Alan_Simcoe@mindlink.bc.ca


From dwalker@island.net Sun May 28 23:15:06 EDT 1995
Article: 272 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!scipio.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.island.net!usenet
From: dwalker@island.net (D. Walker)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Soft Shell Crab culture
Date: 26 May 1995 23:57:19 GMT
Organization: Island Internet
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <3q5psv$5oa@cliff.island.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip4.island.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.5

I have recently been running across references to a seafood gaining
poularity called the soft shelled crab (quite small and you use the
entire animal). If anyone knows the specifics on their biology and
whether they are culturable let me know at:

dwalker@island.net



From BRSF000@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA Sun May 28 23:15:07 EDT 1995
Article: 273 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: "LANCTOT,PASCAL,MR" <BRSF000@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Newsgroups: sci.aquaria,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: I need a Fish egg counting technique.
Date: 26 MAY 95 22:15:10 EST
Organization: McGill University
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.aquaria:13908 sci.bio.fisheries:273

Does anyone know a good technique to count fish eggs (Rainbow
Trout)??  I have an extensive lab to work with. Any ideas
would be greatly appreciated.

                        Thanks, Pas from Montreal



From jkorrube@botzoo.uct.ac.za Sun May 28 23:15:08 EDT 1995
Article: 274 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!quagga.ru.ac.za!ucthpx!jkorrube.zoo.uct.ac.za!jkorrube
From: jkorrube@botzoo.uct.ac.za (Jan L. Korrubel)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Linear/Goal Programming in Fisheries....
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 11:12:36 GMT
Organization: Marine Biology Research Institute
Lines: 23
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Hi all,

I am doing a linear/goal programming exercise with some judgemental  data I 
have extracted from a group of "experts".  I haven't seen it much applied in 
the fisheries field and was wondering if any of you mangement/stats types out 
there might have a pointer or two for me.....?

Many thanks in advance,

Jan L. Korrubel
Marine Biology Research Institute
University of Cape Town
The 'new' South Africa.



+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
>>  New streamlined .SIG: brag list of titles removed, boast about 
>>  place of work removed, list of 5 email addresses removed, WWW
>>  home page removed, tel and fax numbers removed, stupid quote 
>>  removed.
>>  If you want more info, email:  jkorrube@botzoo.uct.ac.za
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+


From salmo@titan.oit.umass.edu Sun May 28 23:15:09 EDT 1995
Article: 275 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.mathworks.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.umass.edu!nic.umass.edu!titan.oit.umass.edu!salmo
From: salmo@titan.oit.umass.edu (James J Montgomery)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Creel Surveys
Date: 26 May 1995 02:58:24 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <3q3g4g$bj0@nic.umass.edu>
References: <3pq0gk$t7t@cliff.island.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.oit.umass.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

D. Walker (dwalker@island.net) wrote:
: Does anyone have any general information on doing "Creel" surveys
: (Catch per unit effort) for river(Bar) recreational fisheries.

: Just looking for general tips on methodology and potential problems,
: secondary (i.e. environmental measurements) and data management.

: Any important cites or contacts would be helpful as well.

: dwalker@island.net (Nanaimo, BC)

	You may want to stratify sampling schedule by weekday/weekend, 
weather, time after stocking, to increase precision.
	Make sure to always sample at different times of day.  How large 
is the study area?  You may have problems contacting all anglers present 
during sampling period.
	Pay attention to behavioral protocol on behalf of your surveyors.
	Important environmental measurements: air temp, water temp, river 
discharge,  water clarity.
	Get data as to fishing method (fly, lure, or bait).

	Also, I know, make sure there is adequate fishing pressure to get 
sufficient sample size for analysis!!

	email me personally or over the group with more specifics of your 
situation and I may be able to help you further.  I have some citations.

				-jamie (salmo@student.umass.edu)


From aqsys@inc.net Sun May 28 23:15:10 EDT 1995
Article: 276 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!carrera.inc.net!steve
From: aqsys@inc.net (Scott Seymour)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: New Pond & Lake Mail List
Date: 27 May 1995 19:09:08 GMT
Organization: Aquatic Systems Inc.
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <3q7tcm$jic@carrera.inc.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.95.160.219
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.10

Ponds-L: Pond & Lake Management Discussion List

List Title: ponds-l: Pond & Lake Management 
Discussion List
List Owner or Contact: Scott Seymour aqsys@inc.net

Description:

Ponds-L is an discussion group primarily directed 
towards the layman who owns or lives on a pond or 
small lake and commercial owners of ponds and small 
lakes.  Members of the educational & scientific 
communities and pond & lake professionals are welcome 
to join the list in an advisory capacity.

Some of the topics of discussion: (but not limited 
to)

Weed & Algae Control (chemical - mechanical - 
biological), fishery management, aeration and 
fountain systems, pond & lake restoration, biological 
augmentation, pond & small lake construction, 
shoreline stabilization, nutrient management, 
watershed issues, dredging & sediment removal, 
wildlife problems (geese, muskrats, beavers, otters 
and blue heron's.) and beneficial aquatic vegetation.

This group is for the discussion of pond and lake 
problems, commercial advertising or spams are not 
welcome.  No polite posting that is on subject will 
be rejected.

To subscribe to this list, send e-mail to 
listproc@inc.net; in the body of the message, type 
subscribe ponds-l [your name] example "subscribe 
ponds-l John Doe"

To unsubscribe from this list, send the command 
unsubscribe ponds-l in e-mail to listproc@inc.net

Send all other list-related commands to 
listproc@inc.net. For assistance, send the command 
HELP.

Language:
English

If you are interested in Ponds & Lakes here are the 
names of some other excellent groups that you might 
want to try:

rec.ponds   
A newsgroup that is directed towards the owners of 
decorative & ornamental ponds.  For people that enjoy 
water gardening, Koi, goldfish and other fish as a 
hobby, this group is very informative.

sci.bio.fisheries
A newsgroup that is directed towards aquaculture and 
fishery management on a very scientific and technical 
level.  If you are a serious fish grower or have a 
strong interest in the ecological aspects of the 
fishery around the world this is very good news group 
that might be right for you.. 


Lakes-L 
This is a mail list that deals with a wide variety of 
larger lake issues. Some of the topics that are 
covered are as follows:

Lake Management ideas; analytical tools, hardware and 
procedures related to lake ecology and lakes; all 
lake related biological, geological, and scientific 
topics. Particular emphasis is placed on behavioral, 
evolutionary, paleontological, theoretical, and 
community ecology; including assessment and 
management by applied mathematics, statistics and 
modeling, mathematical GIS, limnology, chemical 
ecology, etc:



From aqsys@inc.net Sun May 28 23:15:11 EDT 1995
Article: 277 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!carrera.inc.net!steve
From: aqsys@inc.net (Scott Seymour)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: New Pond Mail List
Date: 27 May 1995 19:15:27 GMT
Organization: Aquatic Systems Inc.
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3q7tof$jic@carrera.inc.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.95.160.219
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.10

I have just posted the announcement of Ponds-L to 
your group, I also am a member of sci.bio.fisheries 
and feel that it is an excellent group. At the bottom 
of the announcement for Ponds-L you will see that I 
have a short message recommending sci.bio.fisheries, 
I also plan on adding a recommendation for your group 
on the welcome page that new subscribers get when 
they subscribe to Ponds-L. I have not done this yet, 
if anyone would like to help me by sending me a short 
descriptive text on sci.bio.fisheries I would 
appreciate it.

Scott Seymour



From grenard@herpmed.com Sun May 28 23:15:12 EDT 1995
Article: 278 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.med.pathology,sci.bio.herp,sci.bio.fisheries,rec.pets.herp,bionet.general
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!rutgers!spcuna!news2.new-york.net!news
From: grenard@herpmed.com
Subject: WWW HerpMed HomePage
Nntp-Posting-Host: herpmed.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: news@news2.new-york.net (Network News)
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Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 18:56:22 GMT
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.med.pathology:592 sci.bio.herp:2751 sci.bio.fisheries:278 rec.pets.herp:35604 bionet.general:14344


The Herpmed HomePage can now be found located at:

http://www.xmission.com/~gastown/herpmed/


and provides clickable links to: NA Snakebite Emergency First-Aid
WebPage, The Virtual Herpetology Library (Harvard) and the 
WW Poisons Information Database. This database contains listings of
every venomous snake in the world and links to antivenom sources.

To listers of herpetology webpages: please delete the herpmed
snakebite page and replace with the above homepage  at your next
revision. Thank you. 




From bjford@cix.compulink.co.uk Sun May 28 23:15:14 EDT 1995
Article: 279 of sci.bio.fisheries
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!demon!btnet!news.compulink.co.uk!cix.compulink.co.uk!usenet
From: bjford@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Brian Ford")
Subject: Awareness
Message-ID: <D9953q.6tE@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Organization: Rothay House
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 19:35:50 GMT
X-News-Software: Ameol
Lines: 6


We are compiling a survey of sensitivity, response and 'awareness' in 
animals and plants. This brief multiple posting is to ask for contacts of 
current researchers, or relevant reports. Thanks.

Brian J Ford.


From bmurray@bud.peinet.pe.ca Sun May 28 23:15:15 EDT 1995
Article: 280 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!news.unb.ca!cycor.ca!ss-as01.peinet.pe.ca!bmurray
From: bmurray@bud.peinet.pe.ca (Barry Murray)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: American Lobster, Homarus americanus
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 16:09:30 LOCAL
Organization: PEINet
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In article <dickhuas-180595181359@msp2-7.nas.mr.net> dickhuas@InforMNs.k12.MN.US (Dale Dickhausen) writes:
>From: dickhuas@InforMNs.k12.MN.US (Dale Dickhausen)
>Subject: American Lobster, Homarus americanus
>Date: 19 May 1995 12:17:29 GMT

>Can somebody on the net give me the latest information about research on
>the American Lobster found in the Northwest Atlantic? How big can they get?
>How long do they live? I'd like to hear from some lobster fishermen. I was
>out in Maine two years ago and was fasinated by these guys. 
>-- 
>Have a good day. 

A good popular reference book is  The Lobster Almanac, Bruce Ballenger, The 
Globe Pequot Press, 1988.  There are 217 pages, with major sections on Lobster 
Culture, Lobster Science, The Culinary Lobster, and The Lobster Trade.  Its a 
good read, fairly accurate, generally what it seems you're looking for.  
F.Y.I., I'm a lobster fisherman in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

bmurray


From gcouger@agen.okstate.edu Sun May 28 23:15:16 EDT 1995
Article: 281 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: gcouger@jsun.agen.okstate.edu (Gordon Couger)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: marking captive fish
Date: 26 May 1995 21:39:42 GMT
Organization: Biosystems and Agricultural Engineering
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <3q5hqu$hte@bubba.ucc.okstate.edu>
References: <3pisvp$9j5@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <3q1lkp$9kv@abac.au.ac.th>
Reply-To: Gordon Couger <gcouger@agen.okstate.edu>=
NNTP-Posting-Host: jsun.agen.okstate.edu

In article <3q1lkp$9kv@abac.au.ac.th>,
Ian H. Macrae <ihmacrae@comnet.au.ac.th> wrote:
>David Jones (hallman@bcu.ubc.ca) wrote:
>: I need to find out a reliable technique for marking captive fish.  I
>: can't use "T-tags" through the epaxial muscle because one of the exp'ts
>
>: I was thinking about "branding" the fish (while anaesthetized) with a
>: low power solering iron on the operculum.  I would only need a letter
>: or two (just enough for a positive ID).  If anyone has any opinions or
>: any suggestions for other techniques please let me know.
>
>You might try freeze branding using a metal "number" cooled in liquid 
>nitrogen, this produces a readable brand after a few hours. It is easy to 
>produce a set of irons to do this - copper is best.
>

You can find the numbered copper branding iorns alredy made. Just go to
a veternary supply house ask for horn branding iorns. The are used to
brand numbers in the horns of cattle.

If you can't find them localy
Karl Myer had them the last time I was in there his number is
405 335 2158. Make sure the size he has suits you. If you call him tell
him I said hello to him and his wife Donna.
Gordon                                  

Gordon Couger - 624 Cheyenne, Stillwater, OK 74075
gcouger@master.ceat.okstate.edu 405-624-2855 evenings 
    I do not speak for my employer


From seliason@awod.com Sun May 28 23:15:17 EDT 1995
Article: 282 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!harbour.awod.com!sumter.awod.com!news
From: seliason@awod.com (Steve Eliason)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Stocking new small mountain pond
Date: 24 May 1995 23:27:40 GMT
Organization: A World of Difference, Inc.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3q0fdc$re1@sumter.awod.com>
References: <3p029q$sna@newsit2.mcdata.com> <3p7laf$ama@spacenns.space.honeywell.com> <3pd2rt$9cs@newsit2.mcdata.com> <3pqaee$ih4@bbs.pnl.gov> <3ptdla$9cp@spacenns.space.honeywell.com>
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<much deleted for space>
 
maybe we can find something really worthy of our somewhat dubious
>talents.<grin>  Anyway, glad to have another curious non-expert on the
>group.  Definitely quite a bit of good information here.
>
>Dan


  I hope that no one will be intimidated from posting thier questions, 
even a "stupid" question in some peoples minds are relevant to many.  As
you know fisheries is an ongoing field of research, we'll never know it
all. Hell, I ask "stupid" questions every day, and every once in a while 
I find out something new. Works for me, even if its for laughs.

-Steve-



From dcypser@nyx10.cs.du.edu Mon May 29 15:50:03 EDT 1995
Article: 283 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: dcypser@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Darlene Cypser)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,bburg.bev.general,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Why so few BATF agents in OK Federal Building
Date: 29 May 1995 07:27:46 -0600
Organization: University of Denver, Math/CS Dept.
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Could you folks remove sci.geo.geology from your cross-postings, please.  
It is not appropriate.

Darlene



From jmerola@vt.edu Mon May 29 15:50:04 EDT 1995
Article: 284 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.mathworks.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!merola.chem.vt.edu!jmerola
From: jmerola@vt.edu (Joseph S. Merola)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Why so few BATF agents in OK Federal Building
Date: Mon, 29 May 95 13:46:15 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Chemistry, Virginia Tech
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How did this thread end up in bburg.bev.general?  Could all of you
conspirators please change your postings so it doesn't come here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Joseph S. Merola
 Director of Graduate Education
 Department of Chemistry                Internet: JMEROLA@VT.EDU
 Virginia Tech                          Voice   : (703) 231-4510        
 Blacksburg VA 24061-0212               FAX     : (703) 231-3255        
                            
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From graham@cyclops.iucf.indiana.edu Mon May 29 15:50:05 EDT 1995
Article: 285 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: graham@cyclops.iucf.indiana.edu (Jim Graham)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,bburg.bev.general,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Why so few BATF agents in OK Federal Building
Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban,bburg.bev.general,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Date: 29 May 1995 13:44:32 GMT
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Carl J Lydick (carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU) wrote:
> In article <020304Z29051995@anon.penet.fi>, an113354@anon.penet.fi (Michel) writes:

> =So far nobody has explained to me how P-waves can show up on a trace
> =done by a device recording mainly S-waves, and have an amplitutde
> =which is *bigger* than the one from genuine S-waves. Yes, there can be
> =some cross influence between the two kinds of waves, but the
> =phenomenon would only be marginal.

> You seem to believe that there's something intrinsically different between the
> direction and frequency of the motion caused by an S wave and that caused by a
> P wave.  There's not.

So, Carl.  How about answering his question?  Heck, lay all this 
bantering about second-bomb conspiracies to rest.  Just explain to
him why the amplitude of the supposed reflection or secondary wave
was greater than the first.

> =Of course Carl will respond that I don't really understand the words
> =I write.

> You've demonstrated quite nicely that you know absolutely nothing about what
> you're gibbering about.

No, I think not.  He's demonstrated as have many others, that there is
an unanswered FUNDAMENTAL question about the seismograph recording.

If someone would actually answer this, we could avoid all of this
pompous bullshit from you armchair skeptics.

Jim Graham
--
DON'T TREAD ON ME ... EITHER!
ATTENTION BATF:  BITE Me!

Keywords for NSA/CIA/FBI/BATF search:  farming, rutabagas, turnips,
corn, crops, planting, cultivating, True Value Hardware, Interstate
Highway System, Seedy Motel, fertilizer, fuel oil, Mighty Morphin
Power Rangers, Hall's Cough Drops, matches, baby powder, republic,
tyranny, apple pie, Jesus, gravity, liberty, freedom, Boris Badenough,
Fearless Leader, Dudley Doright, Horse, Locke, Tocqueville, Jefferson,
Adams, Madison, Paine, Lincoln, Gerry, Reagan, garage sales, fatty foods.

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in
peace.  We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.  Crouch down and lick the
hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our contrymen."
(Samuel Adams)

Work: graham@iucf.indiana.edu
Home: jgraham@dolmen.bloomington.in.us
Sysop: The Portal Dolmen BBS (812)334-0418



From listproc@inc.net Mon May 29 15:50:06 EDT 1995
Article: 286 of sci.bio.fisheries
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From: aqsys@inc.net (Scott Seymour)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.environment,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: MAILING LIST: Pond & Lake Management
Followup-To: news.groups
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                           NEW MAILING LIST
           Ponds-L: Pond & Lake Management Discussion List

List Title: ponds-l: Pond & Lake Management Discussion List
List Owner or Contact: Scott Seymour aqsys@inc.net

Description:

Ponds-L is an discussion group primarily directed towards the layman who
owns or lives on a pond or small lake and commercial owners of ponds and
small lakes.  Members of the educational & scientific communities and pond &
lake professionals are welcome to join the list in an advisory capacity.

Some of the topics of discussion: (but not limited to)

Weed & Algae Control (chemical - mechanical - biological), fishery
management, aeration and fountain systems, pond & lake restoration,
biological augmentation, pond & small lake construction, shoreline
stabilization, nutrient management, watershed issues, dredging & sediment
removal, wildlife problems (geese, muskrats, beavers, otters and blue
heron's.) and beneficial aquatic vegetation.

This group is for the discussion of pond and lake problems, commercial
advertising or spams are not welcome.  No polite posting that is on subject
will be rejected.

To subscribe to this list, send e-mail to listproc@inc.net; in the body of
the message, type subscribe ponds-l [your name] example "subscribe ponds-l
John Doe"

To unsubscribe from this list, send the command unsubscribe ponds-l in
e-mail to listproc@inc.net

Send all other list-related commands to listproc@inc.net. For assistance,
send the command HELP.

Language:
English

If you are interested in Ponds & Lakes here are the names of some other
excellent groups that you might want to try:

rec.ponds
A newsgroup that is directed towards the owners of decorative & ornamental
ponds.  For people that enjoy water gardening, Koi, goldfish and other fish
as a hobby, this group is very informative.

sci.bio.fisheries
A newsgroup that is directed towards aquaculture and fishery management on a
very scientific and technical level.  If you are a serious fish grower or
have a strong interest in the ecological aspects of the fishery around the
world this is very good news group that might be right for you..

Lakes-L
This is a mail list that deals with a wide variety of larger lake issues.
Some of the topics that are covered are as follows:

Lake Management ideas; analytical tools, hardware and procedures related to
lake ecology and lakes; all lake related biological, geological, and
scientific topics. Particular emphasis is placed on behavioral,
evolutionary, paleontological, theoretical, and community ecology; including
assessment and management by applied mathematics, statistics and modeling,
mathematical GIS, limnology, chemical ecology, etc:


From dwalker@island.net Mon May 29 15:50:07 EDT 1995
Article: 287 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!news.bc.net!news.island.net!usenet
From: dwalker@island.net (D. Walker)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Creel Surveys
Date: 29 May 1995 14:30:59 GMT
Organization: Island Internet
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <3qclr3$ik6@cliff.island.net>
References: <3pq0gk$t7t@cliff.island.net> <3q3g4g$bj0@nic.umass.edu>
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In article <3q3g4g$bj0@nic.umass.edu>, salmo@titan.oit.umass.edu (James J Montgomery) says:
>
>D. Walker (dwalker@island.net) wrote:
>: Does anyone have any general information on doing "Creel" surveys
>: (Catch per unit effort) for river(Bar) recreational fisheries.
>
>: Just looking for general tips on methodology and potential problems,
>: secondary (i.e. environmental measurements) and data management.
>
>: Any important cites or contacts would be helpful as well.
>
>: dwalker@island.net (Nanaimo, BC)

>
>        You may want to stratify sampling schedule by weekday/weekend, 
>weather, time after stocking, to increase precision.

Yes, I did manage to come up with a bit of info on creel census and it 
appears that the "stratification" of sampling is very important, however
it was a liitle oblique on how best to approach randomizing the sampling 
schedule.

>        Make sure to always sample at different times of day.  How large 
>is the study area?  You may have problems contacting all anglers present 
>during sampling period.

ibid (same as strat of days ?); The sampling area is the (lower) Fraser 
river, from Sumas to Coquihalla R. ( Hope). Apparently we will have two
people in the field sampling at four sites ( 2 ea); with weekly flyovers for
total counts ... comments ?. Shuold there be spot checks outside of the
main study sites.

>        Pay attention to behavioral protocol on behalf of your surveyors.

I'm sorry, i am not sure what you mean here, how shy at approaching people
or the fact that not all fishers are created equal and may skew the data
(skewness being apparently another issue)

>        Important environmental measurements: air temp, water temp, river 
>discharge,  *water clarity*.

Sechhi disk ?, anything better ?


>        Get data as to fishing method (fly, lure, or bait).

Yes, very important

>        Also, I know, make sure there is adequate fishing pressure to get 
>sufficient sample size for analysis!!

Please clarify, we will be examining the exploitation of chinook and sockeye
primarily, so i suppose this falls somewhat under some of the assumptions
regarding mixed stock fisheries.

>
>        email me personally or over the group with more specifics of your 
>situation and I may be able to help you further.  I have some citations.
>
>                                -jamie (salmo@student.umass.edu)

Thanks for the tips, I am posting in the group as I have had a couple
of requests for summarys of any info I come up with from some of the readers.

dwalker@island.net


From jed@vulcan.earth.nwu.edu Mon May 29 15:50:08 EDT 1995
Article: 288 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!vulcan.earth.nwu.edu!jed
From: jed@vulcan.earth.nwu.edu (John DeLaughter)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,bburg.bev.general,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Why so few BATF agents in OK Federal Building
Date: 29 May 1995 16:32:12 GMT
Organization: Geological Sciences Department, Northwestern University
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In article <020304Z29051995@anon.penet.fi> an113354@anon.penet.fi writes:
>
>
>So far nobody has explained to me how P-waves can show up on a trace
>done by a device recording mainly S-waves, and have an amplitutde
>which is *bigger* than the one from genuine S-waves. Yes, there can be
>some cross influence between the two kinds of waves, but the
>phenomenon would only be marginal.

Ok, let me give this a swing.  I am not a full-time seismologist; right
now I'm researching coronae and geoid functions.  However, my master's
thesis dealt with earthquake statistics.  And, even better, I have at
hand three (out of many, many more) texts that *show* seismic traces
recorded on the same type of equipment as that located in Norman.

In _Earthquake Interpretation: A Manual for Reading Seismograms_ (R.B.
Simon, 1981), there are several exxamples of seismic traces which include
both P- and S-waves.  There are even several that show LQ and LR.
See pp.24-25, 36-37, 39, 41, 47... Heck, look at just about any page in
the book!

In _Introduction to Geophysical Prospecting_ (M.B. Dobrin and C. H. Savit,
1988), there is a very good description of how seismic waves propogate 
(Ch 2) and another on the type of instruments that are used to record
seismic traces (Ch 3).  Admittedly, this book is geared more toward
exploration seismology that toward earthquake seismology and so gives
more room to typical exploration geophones but, as one professor of mine
used to say, "The math don't care!"  There is also a nice discussion
of the growing use of S-waves in seismic surveys.

And, in _The Solid Earth: An Introduction to Global Geophysics_ (C. M. R.
Fowler, 1990), there are again several examples of both P- and S-waves 
arriving on the same instrument (pp. 96-97), as well as a good, basic 
discussion of seismic propogation.

In short, as long as you continue to argue that a seismometer can only
recieve P- or S- waves, and not both all types of properly oriented
waves, you will reveal the vast depths of your ignorance in the field.

John DeLaughter


From jpmork@primenet.com Mon May 29 15:50:10 EDT 1995
Article: 289 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!jpmork
From: jpmork@primenet.com (Jim Mork)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,bburg.bev.general,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Why so few BATF agents in OK Federal Building
Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban,bburg.bev.general,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Date: 29 May 1995 17:15:26 GMT
Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet (602)395-1010
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You mean facts are actually USED in these interminable rightwing rants?

Not so's I've noticed.  Why is it rightwingers can create their cases out 
of whole cloth and expect everybody else to do better?  In  most of these 
cases, "nobody knows" is the only truthful answer.  But, then, that would 
make for a lot of short threads.

--
========================================================================
He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition burns a picture
to obtain the ashes.
       Chinese Proverb
========================================================================



From an113354@anon.penet.fi Mon May 29 15:50:11 EDT 1995
Article: 290 of sci.bio.fisheries
Message-ID: <020304Z29051995@anon.penet.fi>
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,bburg.bev.general,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
From: an113354@anon.penet.fi (Michel)
X-Anonymously-To: alt.folklore.urban,bburg.bev.general,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Organization: Anonymous forwarding service
Reply-To: an113354@anon.penet.fi
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 01:54:12 UTC
Subject: Re: Why so few BATF agents in OK Federal Building
Lines: 70
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In article <3qai5s$pl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU foams:
>In article <3qacs6$s7q@news.primenet.com>, boylel@Primenet.Com (Lee Boyle) writes:
>=A textbook paranoid personality ranted:

It's amazing how predictable these gummint apologetics all are! If
they can't dispute the facts any longer, they resort to name calling,
and question the mental sanity of their opponents.

>=>
>=> You forgot my small surprise quizz, to prove that at least you know
>=>something about VAXen :)
>=>
>=
>=This side attack is quite revealing. 

Ah, the pop psychoanalysis continues. Probably so that he can claim
that it's not an ad hominem attack but rather the result of a careful
deduction.

>= Do you care at all about convicing
>=people that the bombing was a dark conspiracy, or do you just like
>=pretending that you know more than anybody else? 

I care about convincing that the bombing was a conspiracy, but in
this occasion I just wanted to make fun of somebody's stupid
signature.

>= I'm sure you find it
>=very comforting in the short term, but it doesn't really address your
>=underlying need for acceptance.  
>=
>=Is there somebody that you can talk to about this?
 Psychoanalysis again.

>
>To respond toi his sid quiz, it was yet another example of his babbling.  I

Aren't we getting a little bit nervous here? Spelling errors can be
quite revealing. (Sorry for the psychoing...)

>claim to understand VAXen and VMS.  His "quiz" had little to do with either:  I                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>was a question about a security bug in an O/S other than VMS that happened to
>run on VAXen.
        ^^^
Isn't there a small contradiction here? (Not that it is relevant to
the bombing, I'm just picking nits...)

So far nobody has explained to me how P-waves can show up on a trace
done by a device recording mainly S-waves, and have an amplitutde
which is *bigger* than the one from genuine S-waves. Yes, there can be
some cross influence between the two kinds of waves, but the
phenomenon would only be marginal.

Of course Carl will respond that I don't really understand the words
I write. Probable candidates are the words ad hominem, S-wave, P-wave,
psychoanalysis, and why not VAXen and VMS. Probably I'm just a team of
monkeys banging away at my keyboard. Hey, a few more candidate words.

Probably lots of other people will try to find comfort by showing
their pop knowlege of psychology.

Of course people don't want to appear to be predictable (sorry for the
psychoing), and will try to react differently. Or maybe some won't get
it.
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From boylel@Primenet.Com Mon May 29 21:46:31 EDT 1995
Article: 291 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!boylel
From: boylel@Primenet.Com (Lee Boyle)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.horses,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Why so few BATF agents in OK Federal Building
Date: 29 May 1995 18:36:35 GMT
Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet (602)395-1010
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In article <020304Z29051995@anon.penet.fi>,
Michel <an113354@anon.penet.fi> wrote:
>
>In article <3qai5s$pl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU foams:
>>In article <3qacs6$s7q@news.primenet.com>, boylel@Primenet.Com (Lee Boyle) writes:
>>=A textbook paranoid personality ranted:
>
>It's amazing how predictable these gummint apologetics all are! If
>they can't dispute the facts any longer, they resort to name calling,
>and question the mental sanity of their opponents.

  1. Every "fact" you have presented has been disputed thoroughly.

  2. I didn't really intend that as name-calling, just marvelling at
     how well this entire thread would fit into an Abnormal Psych
     textbook.  To anyone familiar with the diagnostic criteria for
     "paranoid personality", it's like saying "a man with a limp".
     That's not name-calling, it's simply stating the obvious.  I'll
     point out that it's not the same as "paranoid schizophrenic".


>I care about convincing that the bombing was a conspiracy, but in
>this occasion I just wanted to make fun of somebody's stupid
>signature.

  I didn't understand it as "making fun".  It seemed to come across
  as a test of his abilities, with the intent of impressing us all
  that you actually know more than he does.  The fact that you 
  pressed for an answer when he ignored you further confused me.

>>To respond toi his sid quiz, it was yet another example of his babbling.  I
>
>Aren't we getting a little bit nervous here? Spelling errors can be
>quite revealing. (Sorry for the psychoing...)

  Now here's an example of the difference between a person with training in
  psychological evaluation and "pop psychology".  Spelling errors are an
  excellent way to diagnose a sticky keyboard and possibly the importance
  attached to the message.  Personally, I would expect a person to be more
  attentive to his spelling if he was worried about the factual content,
  but I wouldn't make any decisions based on it unless I had seen samples
  of the person's typing under a variety of circumstances.

>
>>claim to understand VAXen and VMS.  His "quiz" had little to do with either:  I                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>was a question about a security bug in an O/S other than VMS that happened to
>>run on VAXen.
>        ^^^
>Isn't there a small contradiction here? (Not that it is relevant to
>the bombing, I'm just picking nits...)

  If I claimed to be an expert in the care of horses, it wouldn't be
  reasonable to test my claim by asking the name of the jockey who
  rode the winning horse in the 1957 Kentucky Derby.  People who
  understood what it means to be an expert in the care of horses 
  would immediately see that you don't understand it, and might even
  suspect that this was the only horse-related fact you knew.
 
--
-------------------
Lee Boyle
boylel@primenet.com


From carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU Mon May 29 21:46:32 EDT 1995
Article: 292 of sci.bio.fisheries
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,bburg.bev.general,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.ad.hominem,sci.geo.geology,alt.i.understand.vaxen.and.vms,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.carl.lydick,alt.flame,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,sci.bio.fisheries
Subject: Re: Why so few BATF agents in OK Federal Building
Date: 29 May 1995 04:33:06 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
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In article <020304Z29051995@anon.penet.fi>, an113354@anon.penet.fi (Michel) writes:
=Aren't we getting a little bit nervous here? Spelling errors can be
=quite revealing. (Sorry for the psychoing...)

Not at all, though you DO once again demonstrate your propensity to look for
imaginary, complex explanations where simple ones would do.  In this case, the
terminal I was using had a flakeey E key.

=>claim to understand VAXen and VMS.  His "quiz" had little to do with either:  I                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
=>was a question about a security bug in an O/S other than VMS that happened to
=>run on VAXen.
=        ^^^
=Isn't there a small contradiction here? (Not that it is relevant to
=the bombing, I'm just picking nits...)

Not at all, though I'm not surprised that you're stupid enough to think there
is.  Tell me, would you expect an automobile mechanic who specializes in GM
products to be an expert in repairing televisions just because some folks might
transport televisions in GM vehicles?  By far the vast majority of bugs found
in Ultrix have simply been bugs in code ported intact from BSD.  Such bugs
have nothing to do with VAXen per se.  Of course, as usual, you were just
bandying buzzwords you'd encountered in a field of which you're quite ignorant.

=So far nobody has explained to me how P-waves can show up on a trace
=done by a device recording mainly S-waves, and have an amplitutde
=which is *bigger* than the one from genuine S-waves. Yes, there can be
=some cross influence between the two kinds of waves, but the
=phenomenon would only be marginal.

You seem to believe that there's something intrinsically different between the
direction and frequency of the motion caused by an S wave and that caused by a
P wave.  There's not.

=Of course Carl will respond that I don't really understand the words
=I write.

You've demonstrated quite nicely that you know absolutely nothing about what
you're gibbering about.

=Probable candidates are the word