From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Oct 22 22:22:22 EDT 1992 Article: 11549 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.gardens:11549 sci.environment:18705 Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens,sci.environment Subject: Methanol and improved yields (was Biosphere/coffee) Message-ID: <1992Oct20.141824.7870@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 20 Oct 92 14:18:24 -0500 References: Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 23 sigurd@ravel.udel.edu (Sigurd Andersen) writes: > An article in a quite-recent issue of Science News talked of many > crop plants growing faster & stronger, and maturing earlier, when > sprayed (lightly, it sounded like from the article) with alcohol > (methanol, I think) during "the heat of the noonday sun." > I don't have the article in front of me, but I believe that was > the essence of it. Photosynthesis is normally limited by availability of carbon dioxide or by light intensity or by temperature. At temperatures most of us consider comfortable, light intensity and carbon dioxide are limiting. If you add CO2 to a sealed greenhouse on a sunny day, the plants will grow faster. Add it on a cloudy day, though, and the plants won't have enough light to really make use of that extra CO2. The idea behind the methanol treatment was that the methanol could serve as an additional source of a one carbon compound, sort of like adding CO2. I haven't seen the original paper (just the blurb in Sci News)-- but it seems to me you could run into some real toxicity problems. Sounds intriguing, though. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!rutgers!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Mon Oct 26 09:26:48 EST 1992 Article: 11617 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rutgers!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Fertilizer & Misc. comments/questions Message-ID: <1992Oct24.204000.8067@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 25 Oct 92 01:40:00 GMT References: <1992Oct24.193537.8063@iscsvax.uni.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 115 Lowell Lutz, Syracuse University, 315-443-9056, lwlutz@mailbox.syr.edu > Along the same vein - fertilizer(s) - here are some questions. > > 1 - A lawn tip I found: The following liquid formula is an instant > snack that gets your lawn off and growing in both the spring and fall > when it is necessary for aggressive growing acction of roots and a > breakdown of thatch: 1 can beer, 1 pint ammonia, 1 cup liquid soap mix > into a 15-20 gal hose-end lawn sprayer and apply over your first > application of lawn fertilizer in the spring and over your last > application in the fall. This mixture covers 2,500 sq.ft. > > Q: ammonia is N, liquid soap is K, is beer P?!? This sounds like one of Jerry Baker's "eye of newt and toe of frog" recipes. Ammonia is indeed N. Liquid *soap* is potassium salts of fatty acids, so it's both a source of K and a general insecticide/ herbicide (_vide_ Safer's Sharp Shooter and Insecticidal Soap), and I think only God and Jerry Baker can answer "why beer?" It isn't a particularly good source of N, P or K, but unpasturized beer might have enough vitamin B1 to do some good as a rooting stimulant. (I'm the wrong person to ask about beer. I found out I could get drunk on 3-4 oz of beer in 1974, and haven't drunk EtOH since. I guess I have no ADH?!?!?) Anyhow, the ammonia is quite available to the grass, so you should see almost immediate greening. I'd have to sit down and work out the numbers, but I think this recipe would be a *very* light fertilization at the rate described. > 2 - A vacation tip: If you are going on vacation, cut your annuals > back to prevent runaway growth and promote late season blooms. Spray > with Anti-Drying Agent to retain moisture in foliage. Feed with a can > of beer and a cup of soap in 20 gallons of water before you leave. > > Q: again is beer for phosphates? Don't think so. How about 1 can of beer for the annuals and 5 for the gardener... (can't leave the stuff in the 'frig while you're on vacation!) > > And on bone meal: > Can I make my own by freezing, in a non-airtight container, bones (like > chicken which are "softer") until they dry out and then smash them with > a hammer? I'm on a budget and besides I'd like to be able to use all my > trash/waste/garbage if possible and if it will do some plant good. Why not just bury bones next to the plants when you're digging holes anyhow? Let the soil organisms do the work. > March: Apply your favorite brand of dry lawn food in both the > spring and fall at half the recommended rate. Apply Epsom salts (use a > hand-held whirley spreader set on #2) in both the spring and fall. > (finishes with above mentioned # 1 - A lawn tip) Hm. Now here I agree with him, though he probably would use a high N fertilizer and I'd use a balanced fertilizer. Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) can be helpful in soils starved for magnesium. There's a magnesium atom at the center of each chlorophyll molecule, so plants *do* need Mg! > April: Soil preparation for your "average" vegetable garden. > For each 50 sq.ft. till in: 1 pound Epsom salts, 15 pounds of > Pelletized Lime (Hyponex), 15 pounds of Pelletized Gypsum (Hyponex) Most of the soils around here are so limey that this is carrying coals to Newcastle. > and 5 pounds K-Grow Garden Food. Cut the heads off matches and put 3 > or 4 in the bottom of each hole before planting your garden plants. > The sulpher will: 1. Release elements locked in the soil. 2. Give > plants the sulphur they need in their diet. 3. Act as an insect killer. Yes, sulfur is a necessary plant nutrient (esp for sulfur-containing amino acid synthesis). Again, most of the soils around here have enough for plants. I'd prefer to see people spend a few $$$ on a soil analysis before "magicking" the soil. > > May: Plant roses, water and feed start-up meal: 1/2 gallon > warm tea, 1 teaspoon whiskey, 1 tablespoon liquid soap, 1 tablespoon > hydrogen peroxide, and 1 teaspoon vitamin B-1. Ah, we agree on the B-1 for transplanting. I normally use a couple of one-a-day multivitamins in a bucket of water. Cheap and on hand. > July: If a plant produces flowers, fruits or vegetables, > it's a girl. Most of 'em are bisexual! **but don't let Jesse Helms & Co. know. They'd probably declare plants unAmerican and a threat to Family Values!** Her diet must contain a great deal of phosphorous, potash > and only minimal nitrogen. I find that a water-soluble plant food > mixed at half the recommended rate with 1/2 ounce of liquid soap per > gallon once every 2 weeks does the trick. Yep, it should help. But don't use 43-1-1: try something more like 5-10-10! > > August: Hot, dry weather, following a wet spring, will raise > havoc with your lawns. To keep soil from drying out or to re-moisten > already dry soil, add 1 cup of children's shampoo to your 20-gallon Soaps and detergents are good wetting agents. I'd probably use Aerosol OT (sodium dioctyl sulfosuccinate) for this if I were inclined to try it, since it's an agricultural wetting agent that is safe for most plants. On the other hand, read the labels on shampoo! Sodium chloride! Formaldehyde! yech! Lowell, I'm not coming down on you. It's just that Jerry Baker's "magic recipe" style irritates the h*ll out of me... ;-) Kay From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!julia!ramirez Tue Oct 27 01:29:34 EST 1992 Article: 11494 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!julia!ramirez From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) Subject: Cherimoyas Message-ID: <1992Oct19.203256.24160@math.ucla.edu> Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department Date: Mon, 19 Oct 92 20:32:56 GMT Lines: 57 I thought I posted this, but then never saw it. If I am repeating myself, let me apolotize, but I really don't think this ever made it to the newsgroup. An answer to the poster's question about Annona cherimola, aka cherimoya, custard apple...they sprout easily from seed. Here in California named varieties are available (grafted onto seedling rootstock) and enthusiasts among friends in my beloved weird fruit group all have their Bfavourites. Cherimoya don't come true from seed any more than other fruit species do, but hey, you may end up lucky. if you don't have access to grafted named varieties it's worth a try. They make a pleasant loooking tree. They get to be (the ones I've seen) about 20 feet tall max. They are to be considered understory trees. That is, they don't like hot hot direct sun (at least not in my area. At least not in my garden where they do worse under strong sun, and better in partial shade). They are very pleasant trees with largish, soft, somewhat velvety gray-ish green leaves. But there is one thing very important you have to know about cherimoya, and this is the reason the fruits are so damn expensive in the markets. The female part of the flower is receptive early in the morning. The male part sheds pollen late in the afternoon, after the stigma is no longer receptive. What is commonly done is to collect the pollen in the afternoon, brushing it into some container, then going out in the morning and brushing last nite's pollen onto the newly opened flowers (and you can tell newly open from old. The old are rather spread out and shriveled looking by late after- noon, the fresh flowers are nice and green and the petals have not separated very far from the center of the flower). What I mean is, every flower that is newly open should be brushed with pollen. If you are lucky, these will "take" and you will start to grow cherimoyas. The common belief among the weird fruiters of california is that this species, which originated in the fog forests of Equador, are able to pollenate spontaneously because the fogs keep the female part viable long enough for the anthers to mature and shed. The basis for this belief is that cherimoya will often form spontaneously (without need of hand-pollenation) along the coast, whereas in the much drier inland areas (i.e. 5+ miles from the ocean) they will not fruit unless hand-pollenated. I once experimented with gibberelic acid (sp?), brushing a diluted solution of this onto the flower while still in its female stage. I did a number of flowers this way, treating them with the acid but not pollenating them, and was quite thrilled to see fruits form from these. As time passed, the fruits grew quite misshapen (I was willing to live with knobby weird fruits so this in itself wasn't a tragedy), then when about 2 inches across, max, dropped off. I was devastated. I had hoped, and temporarily believed, that I had solved a major agricultural fruit growing problem, one that would turn cherimoya into a major California ag-biz industry. Would b urn my name into the history of California fruit growing.... Sigh!! (but then I've tried this before. I was the one who thought sausage fruit might be another starch fruit, ate a piece to see how it tasted, and hallucinated. Another grandiose plan bites the dust. Oh well, better total obscurity than Death by Botany...I guess. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!psgrain!qiclab!therose!postmaster Thu Oct 29 18:49:49 EST 1992 Article: 11714 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!psgrain!qiclab!therose!postmaster From: Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Is there any gardening software Message-ID: <720350884.AA00000@therose.pdx.com> Date: 29 Oct 92 00:23:44 GMT Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com Lines: 12 Hello Peter! 26 Oct 92, Peter Wagner writes to All: PW> Does anyone know of any software that helps with the process of PW> planning a garden? Thanks. Peter I have many shareware garden programs for down load at my BBS, The Garden Pond BBS, 1-503-735-307. V.32 bis. No prevaladation to down load on your first visit. Jack From samba!concert!rutgers!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!mtask!Bob.Batson Sun Nov 1 09:47:37 EST 1992 Article: 11772 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rutgers!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Shocked Seeds Message-ID: <80.2af31054@ivgate> Date: 31 Oct 92 21:01:58 GMT Sender: news@ivgate.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Followup-To: rec.gardens Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Lines: 39 Higher Yields from Shocked Seeds?!?! That's the claim of researchers in India who sent a current of 250 milliamps (at an unspecified potential difference) through bitter gourd (Momordica Charantia) seeds for three minutes. Plants grown from treated seeds produced nearly four times as many female flowers, about three times as many fruits per plant, and nearly double the fruit weight compared to plants grown from untreated seeds. Is this phenomenon repeatable? Are yield increases possible from other kinds of plants grown from seeds subjected briefly to electrical currents? We [HortIdeas] invite amateur garden researchers to begin to answer these questions. This is the stuff of which winning science projects are made, we think. The original research was conducted by Raghvendra Kumar, R.P. Vyas, and R.D. Goyal, Dept. of Seed Technology, Kanpur 208 002, INDIA. Reference: Abstract 6546, _HORTICULTURAL ABSTRACTS_ 62(8), August, 12992, 771. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reprinted with permission from the October 1992 _HortIdeas_. Copyright 1992 by Greg and Pat Williams. HortIdeas is $15 (2nd class mail within the USA) for one year (12 issues). For more information or a subscription, write: HortIdeas, 460 Black Lick Road, Gravel Switch, KY 40328, USA. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FOR MORE INFO ON RESEARCH REPORTED IN HORTIDEAS ...write to the author(s) of the original article for a copy of it, and/or additional details. The accepted method for communicating research findings throughout the scientific community is via OFFPRINTS, which are simply reprints of published articles AVAILABLE FREE UPON REQUEST from their authors. If you're SERIOUSLY INTERESTED in learning more, send a postcard for an offprint! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org From samba!concert!rutgers!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!mtask!Bob.Batson Sun Nov 1 09:47:44 EST 1992 Higher Yields from Shocked Seeds?!?! That's the claim of researchers in India who sent a current of 250 milliamps (at an unspecified potential difference) through bitter gourd (Momordica Charantia) seeds for three minutes. Plants grown from treated seeds produced nearly four times as many female flowers, about three times as many fruits per plant, and nearly double the fruit weight compared to plants grown from untreated seeds. Is this phenomenon repeatable? Are yield increases possible from other kinds of plants grown from seeds subjected briefly to electrical currents? We [HortIdeas] invite amateur garden researchers to begin to answer these questions. This is the stuff of which winning science projects are made, we think. The original research was conducted by Raghvendra Kumar, R.P. Vyas, and R.D. Goyal, Dept. of Seed Technology, Kanpur 208 002, INDIA. Reference: Abstract 6546, _HORTICULTURAL ABSTRACTS_ 62(8), August, 12992, 771. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reprinted with permission from the October 1992 _HortIdeas_. Copyright 1992 by Greg and Pat Williams. HortIdeas is $15 (2nd class mail within the USA) for one year (12 issues). For more information or a subscription, write: HortIdeas, 460 Black Lick Road, Gravel Switch, KY 40328, USA. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FOR MORE INFO ON RESEARCH REPORTED IN HORTIDEAS ...write to the author(s) of the original article for a copy of it, and/or additional details. The accepted method for communicating research findings throughout the scientific community is via OFFPRINTS, which are simply reprints of published articles AVAILABLE FREE UPON REQUEST from their authors. If you're SERIOUSLY INTERESTED in learning more, send a postcard for an offprint! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!bae Tue Nov 3 11:36:14 EST 1992 Article: 11800 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: Pumpkin Companionate Planting Message-ID: Organization: UTCS Public Access References: Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 20:16:32 GMT Lines: 21 In article psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes: >I'm into companionate planting, but, unfortunately, I didn't use this >defense on one of my pumpkin patches. The result was a major ambush >by striped cucumber beetles. They killed some seedlings, and gave >bacterial wilt to some adults (they were particularly hard on >'Jack-Be-Littles'). I got some old issues of Organic Gardening at a rummage sale last week, and one has a letter from someone in Maryland who found that he could use the edible gourd Cucurbita lagenaria as a trap crop for cuke beetles. This gourd has large white flowers that open at night, then close and wither the next morning. He found that the withered flowers were full of cucumber beetles, and by removing and destroying them each morning, he got the population down to the point where he saw very few beetles and had no wilt the following year. This might be worth trying. I think I've seen this plant growing in gardens in Italian areas of Toronto. I've seen something listed as Lagenaria siceraria, or "zucca melon" in seed catalogs, but I'm not sure it's the same plant. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!bae Tue Nov 3 12:29:29 EST 1992 Article: 11800 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: Pumpkin Companionate Planting Message-ID: Organization: UTCS Public Access References: Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 20:16:32 GMT Lines: 21 In article psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes: >I'm into companionate planting, but, unfortunately, I didn't use this >defense on one of my pumpkin patches. The result was a major ambush >by striped cucumber beetles. They killed some seedlings, and gave >bacterial wilt to some adults (they were particularly hard on >'Jack-Be-Littles'). I got some old issues of Organic Gardening at a rummage sale last week, and one has a letter from someone in Maryland who found that he could use the edible gourd Cucurbita lagenaria as a trap crop for cuke beetles. This gourd has large white flowers that open at night, then close and wither the next morning. He found that the withered flowers were full of cucumber beetles, and by removing and destroying them each morning, he got the population down to the point where he saw very few beetles and had no wilt the following year. This might be worth trying. I think I've seen this plant growing in gardens in Italian areas of Toronto. I've seen something listed as Lagenaria siceraria, or "zucca melon" in seed catalogs, but I'm not sure it's the same plant. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!warwick!fulcrum!rct Fri Nov 13 13:51:55 EST 1992 Article: 11969 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!warwick!fulcrum!rct From: rct@fulcrum.co.uk (Richard Taylor) Subject: Re: Bee List (For ? Moroney at dec.com) Message-ID: Sender: news@fulcrum.co.uk Organization: Fulcrum Communications References: Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:36:10 GMT Lines: 35 >Bees - any group or mail lists? >----------------------------- > Here is the information on a bee list. Thanks to the people who replied - From: Kathie Hodge Apparently there's a list on bees and bee biology called Bee-L. I think it's based in Albany, New York State. If you'd like to try it out, send e-mail containing only the message: Subscribe BEE-L Your Name to: listserv@ALBNYVM1 (that's a bitnet address) They'll send confirmation of your subscription, info on listservers, and info on how to get copies of past discussion (archives). I'm not familiar with this group, I just happened to see it in a list of listserv groups shortly after reading your request in rec.gardens. Good Luck! PS -- For ?.Moroney - Couldn't get through to you at the address - 'moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com' to email you the details. Regards, ============================================================================ Richard Taylor DoD #981 (rct@fulcrum.co.uk) Heard on Radio 4:- "One of the first signs of the male menopause is buying a Harley Davidson." ============================================================================ Fulcrum Communications Ltd., Fordrough Lane, Birmingham, B9 5LD, ENGLAND. From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!psmith Wed Nov 18 22:32:53 EST 1992 Article: 12098 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!psmith From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) Subject: Ontario Market Gardening - followup Message-ID: Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:24:48 GMT Lines: 16 Thanks to those who responded to my original question re: what are good sources of information for persons wanting to get into market gardening. Although I still have a lot of research/learning to do, as many readers pointed out, the best source -- not surprisingly -- is your local Ont Ministry of Agriculture office (look in the blue pages of your phone book). I made one phone call, and they forwarded me a guide on financial planning for farmers and another on "getting started in part-time farming in Ontario". Although it won't answer all my questions, it gives reference to other publications/sources, and I was given the number of a local rep with whom you can just chat about things. good luck to anyone else with similar interests From samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!eng.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!lns Sun Nov 22 11:37:13 EST 1992 Article: 12070 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!eng.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!lns From: lns@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: amber snails, Succinea sp., diet Message-ID: <1992Nov17.144924.1888@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> Date: 17 Nov 92 14:49:24 -0500 Lines: 2 Information regarding amber snails, Succinea sp., requested. What is the diet of this critter? Thanks. From samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!uunet!van-bc!questor!myahgula Mon Nov 23 01:53:12 EST 1992 Article: 12182 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!uunet!van-bc!questor!myahgula From: myahgula@questor.org (Michael Yahgulanaas) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Fruit & Nut trees Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 23:54:22 PST Organization: Questor|Free Usenet News|Vancouver, BC: +1 604 681 0670 Lines: 22 There is asmall community of indigenous persons living at latitude 54 40 on the northern shores of a large archipelago called Haida Gwaii. The colonial maps read Queen Charlotte Islands. The climate is temperate and marine ( wet ) and major wind storms occurfrequently and especially in the fall. This community is considering planting an area of some 10 acres with food producing trees. The site includes standing water, 3 meter organic ( coniferious forest humus ) on top of marine gravels and sand. Slight northern aspect subjects lands to occasional arctic winds off south east Alaska. Looking for information on type of food producing trees that might be approriate, available. Important social reconstruction work underway. Thanks for the moment. Chief Councillor of the Village Council of Old Massett, Haida GWaiis/ s/ -- Michael Yahgulanaas (myahgula@questor.org) | QUESTOR: Free Dial-in Public Access to Usenet Health, Medical News | | & AIDS forums, and Info on Global Environment at +1 604 681 0670. | From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!C.B.Christie Sun Nov 29 18:28:16 EST 1992 Article: 12266 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!C.B.Christie Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Essential oil production from rose and tea tree Message-ID: <1992Nov29.223014.29346@massey.ac.nz> From: C.B.Christie@massey.ac.nz (C.B. Christie) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 22:30:14 GMT Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c Lines: 16 Hi Netters, Anyone had any experience growing and producing rose or tea tree oil? Details of specific clones/cultivars, climate requirements, yields, economics and any other useful info that might assist in a preliminary analysis for this project would be most helpful. Thanks very much Bruce Christie Department of Plant Science, Massey University Palmerston North, New Zealand email: C.B.Christie@massey.ac.nz From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cl27111 Tue Dec 8 15:28:23 EST 1992 Article: 12404 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cl27111 From: cl27111@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey) Subject: Re: Garden Software References: Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1992 16:32:27 GMT Lines: 12 earlyd@gecko.ee.byu.edu (David Early) writes: >A while back, there had been some talk about a shareware software program >for garden layout. >Where was it that I could get this??? There is a file called GARDENER on WUARCHIVE in the /msdos/database directory... It is more for vegetable gardens than flowers, etc... Christopher Lindsey -- Dept. of Landscape Architecture, Univ. of Illinois From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!uunet!icd.ab.com!iccgcc.decnet.ab.com!boldtp Thu Dec 10 00:23:11 EST 1992 Article: 12433 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!uunet!icd.ab.com!iccgcc.decnet.ab.com!boldtp From: boldtp@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (If ya think long, you'll think wrong.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Manual (Push-Along) Garden Seeders Message-ID: <1992Dec9.125128.9443@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> Date: 9 Dec 92 12:51:27 EST References: <1992Dec07.191212.32019@watson.ibm.com> <1992Dec8.014235.11280@samba.oit.unc.edu> Lines: 38 In article <1992Dec8.014235.11280@samba.oit.unc.edu>, london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) writes: > In article <1992Dec07.191212.32019@watson.ibm.com> irby@vnet.ibm.com writes: >> I was wondering if I could get some advice as to whether the garden seeders >>I see advertised in gardening catalogs are worth the money. My wife and I >>grow vegetables for local farmer's markets and anything that would speed >>up planting would be a help. > > I grow, organically, for market also and have found the EARTHWAY seeder to > be satisfactory most of the time. I think a modified wheel hoe may be > necessary to cut a groove to drop the seed in and to cover it when done. > I've built a 3-wheel wheel hoe that accepts a variety of tillage tools > to do this with. It plows and tills nicely as well. I'm working on enhanced > versions of this implement. > I have and EARTHWAY also. It performance is good, it's certainly much easier than hand planting for beans, carrots, peas, spinach, etc... This year I also tried it on very small seed ( lettuce, and onions ) with surprisingly good results. It has a couple of draw backs for my heavy ( clay ) organic ( lots of what farmers call trash ) soil. It's opener can be clogged, a disc would cut through much better. And it tends to push over forwards, but this can be fixed by turning the handle over. This is the seeder that you will see most often in garden catalogs. I got mine from Johnny's because the price was close to the lowest. Some other companies charge a lot more for the same device. I haven't used the Planet Jr. but it is available in both hand and tool bar mount. There is another one called a NIMEX ( sp? sorry I don't have the lit. here ) that is used as a toolbar mount, but I've also seen it either with a handle for pushing or mounted on a rototiller. It is also expensive, $400 or more as I recall. Good Luck Pete Boldt From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cobweb.mcc.com!breland Tue Dec 22 12:51:13 EST 1992 Article: 12587 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cobweb.mcc.com!breland From: breland@mcc.com (Mark A. Breland) Subject: Re: Pepper Seed Source Message-ID: <1992Dec22.151049.17143@mcc.com> Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: news@mcc.com Reply-To: breland@mcc.com Organization: MCC References: <31310@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:10:49 GMT Lines: 69 > In article 31310@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com, bkeating@ems.cdc.com (Bonnie Keating) writes: > > I posted a request about a week ago asking for a address for a company that > specializes in pepper seeds (or at least carries a large number of varieties of them) > and haven't received any replies, so I am starting to wonder if the > request ever got out. So I am posting the request again. Here's a list of pepper seed sources I got out of several distributed FAQs: Casa Moneo 210 W. 14th Street New York, NY 10011 Horticultural Enterprises P.O. Box 810082 Dallas, Texas 75381-0082 J.L. Hudson, Seedsman P.O. Box 1058 Redwood City, CA 94064 La Preferida, Inc. 3400 W. 35th Street Chicago, IL 60632 Native Seeds/Search 3950 W New York Drive Tucson, AZ 85745 Old Southwest Trading Company P.O. Box 7545 Albuquerque, NM 87194 Pepper Gal (The) 10536 119th Ave. North Largo, FL 34643 Plants of the Southwest 1812 Second Street Santa Fe, NM 87501 Porter & Son 1510 E. Washington St P.O. Box 104 Stephenville, TX 76401 Roswell Seed Co. 115-117 South Main P.O. Box 725 Roswell, NM 88201 (505) 622-7701 Seed Savers Exchange Rural Route 1, Box 239 Decorah, IA 52101 Shepherd's Garden Seeds 30 Irene St. Torrington, CT 06790 St. Thomas Vegetable Products Box 9519 St Thomas, VI 00801 --- Mark A. Breland - Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation (MCC) Ada Fault Tolerance | voice: (512) 338-3509 3500 West Balcones Center Drive | FAX: (512) 338-3900 Austin, Texas 78759-6509 USA | internet: breland@mcc.com From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!star.dec.com!dipirro Tue Dec 22 12:54:31 EST 1992 Article: 12588 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!star.dec.com!dipirro From: dipirro@star.dec.com (Steve DiPirro) Subject: Re: Pepper Seed Source Message-ID: <1992Dec22.153107.19103@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd.lkg.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:25:16 GMT Lines: 148 In article <31310@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com>, bkeating@ems.cdc.com (Bonnie Keating) writes... > >I thought I remembered an article here before that mentioned a place in >Florida that specialized in this but I can't find it in any of my saved >posts. I'm also doing my planning and grow lots of pepper varieties. However, I've been able to find most in Burpee and Park Seed catalogs, including Anaheims, poblanos, serranos, jalapenos, habaneros, cayenne, thai, etc. I've seen postings in the past couple of years of numerous places that specialize in peppers. The place you're referring to though is The Pepper Gal (Jenny Jacks) at P.O. Box 12534, Lake Park, Florida 33403-0534. They offer many varieties. However, I've heard that a number of people have had pretty serious germination problems with their seeds. I don't know if it's some varieties or all varieties. Organic Gardening magazine frequently lists seed sources for unusual things. You might try there. Also, here is some old data (a year or two ago) on pepper seed sources (and mail-order spice, etc. companies): The Whole Chile Pepper Out West Publishing 2425-C Monroe NE, P.O.Box 4278 Albuquerque, NM 87196 $15.95/6 Issues; $28.95/12 issues ("Just North of the Border" - cookbook $6.95) Jane Butel Associates (Pecos Valley Spice) 500 East 77th St., Suite 2324 New York, NY 10162 (212)628-5374 The Chili Pepper Emporium (catalog - food, gifts, chili wreaths, seeds, spice) 328 San Felipe NW Albuquerque, NM 87104 (505)242-7538 The Chili Shop (ceramics, New Mexican foods, chile) 109 E. Water St. Santa Fe, NM 87501 (505)983-6080 Cosmopolitan Foods (HOT AS HELL, Hottest chili sauce on Earth) P.O. Box 1877 Montclair, NJ 07042 (201)680-4560 Firueroa International (Melinda's Extra Hot Habanero Sauce & XXXtra Hot) 2323 Bainbridge Ave, Suite 122 Kenner, LA 70062 (504)468-8785 Jody Maroni's Sausage Kingdom (Sausages with chili) 2011 Ocean Front Walk Venice, CA 90291 (213)306-1995 Leonard Soloman's Wines and Spirits (Tequilapeno, a tequila w/Jalapeno) 1456 N. Dayton Chicago, IL 60622 (312)915-5911 McIlhenny Co. (Tabasco Country Store Mail order Catalog) Avery Island, LA 70513 (800)634-9599 Michael's Enterprises (Miz Grazi's Hot Stuff) P.O.Box 400 Rosedale, MS 38769 (601)759-6545 Mo Hotta - Mo Betta (catalog) P.O. Box 4136 San Luis Obispo, CA 93403 (800)462-3220 Old Southwest Trading Company (catalog clies, "Habanero Chiles") CR Division, Box 7545 Albuquerque, NM 87194 Orient Express (Hot As Hell - sauce w/Eastern peppers - Nick J Ten Velde) 138 Essex Ave Glen Ridge, NJ 07028 (201)743-4790 Pendery's Taste Merchants (Mexican Chile Supply) 304 East Belknap Street Ft. Worth, TX 76102 1-800-533-1870 (817)332-3871 The Pepper Gal (catalog of 200 chile seeds for SASE) Dorothy L. Van Vleck 10536 119th Ave. North Largo, FL 34643 Redwood City Seed Co. (Seed catalog $1, booklets - "Chili Peppers in CA" $4.50, "Peppers: Pickled, Sauces & Salsas" $5.00, "Pepper Hotness Test" $1.50) Box 361 Redwood City, CA 94064 Rockin' Roger Kaufman (Rockin' Roger's Soul Bar-B-Q Sauce) 187 Georgetown Rd. Weston, CT 06883 (203)266-5730 Santa Cruz Chili & Spice Company Box 177 Tumacacori, AZ 85640 (602)398-2591 Santa Fe Exotix (NM Sauces) Rt 9, Box 56C Santa Fe, NM 87501 (505)988-7063 Sierra Farms, Inc. (cheese w/peppers) P.O.Box 790 Tijeras, NM 87059 (505)281-5061 Southern Ray (Rib Sauce) P.O.Box 402552 Miama Beach, FL 33140 Southwestern Flavor Co. (Catalog) P.O.Box 315 Red River, NM 87558 (505)754-2221 Hot Stuff, Tucson Botanical Gardens 2150 North Alvernon Way, Tucson, AZ 85712 (602)326-9255 Dave DeWitt (2nd National Fiery Foods Show) P.O.Box 4980 Albuquerque, NM 87196 (505)873-2187 ------------ Steve DiPirro dipirro@star.dec.com --or-- dipirro@star.enet.dec.com --or-- ...!decwrl!star.dec.com!dipirro --or-- dipirro%star.dec@decwrl.dec.com ------------ From samba!sunSITE!london Tue Dec 29 09:36:20 EST 1992 Article: 12628 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!sunSITE!london From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Subject: Re: propagating bamboo Message-ID: <1992Dec28.192023.4250@samba.oit.unc.edu> Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill References: <0ZigwB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:20:23 GMT In article <0ZigwB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs-hrick@jwt.UUCP writes: >There is a small stand of very large bamboo plants on a vacant lot >in my neighborhood. (I'm in the Orlando area.) I'd like to get >a specimen of this species in my garden. Short of renting a >steam-shovel, how can I do it? They are growing in a very dense >clump and it doesn't look like it would be practical to dig up >part of the colony. Use a sharp axe and a standard nursery spade to chop/dig sections of bamboo rhizome for transplanting [use Transplantone to reduce transplant shock, liquid seaweed, liquid fish emulsion and compost to stimulate new growth]. It helps to add weight/length to the digging spade by braze-welding a section of steel black pipe (not galvanized pipe which gives off toxic fumes when heated) between the top of the steel-strapped wood handle and the d-handle grip at the top. The extra weight will enable the spade to more easily sever the root mass and the added length will add leverage when prizing clumps out of the ground. Sharpening the edge of the shovel blade helps tremendously; keep a file at hand for resharpening. Needless to say, safeguard your feet adequately; laying a small plywood board on edge on the ground in front of the toe of your boots and leaning the top of it back against your legs will provide considerable protection. I had three of these versatile tools made up years ago for a job I had transplanting many clumps of large bamboo; most of the transplants lived. Liming the planting site might be a good idea as it may like pH around 7. [Does anyone know pH preference of bamboo?] A friend has offered me specimens of giant bamboo, the kind that grows to 40 feet and 4 inch diameter. I hope to get a stand established this Spring. This is an extremely versatile wood product: gates, fences, trellises, greenhouses, cold frames/tunnels, radio antennas, cooking utensils, garden ornaments, water conduits for pools, birdbaths, irrigation (see a book on Japanese gardens). Lawrence london@sunsite.unc.edu From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!auvm!hemple Tue Dec 29 09:37:45 EST 1992 Article: 12634 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!auvm!hemple Organization: The American University - University Computing Center Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:26:56 EST From: William E. Hemple Message-ID: <92363.212656HEMPLE@auvm.american.edu> Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: propagating bamboo References: <0ZigwB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> Lines: 23 I would like to warn people of the very serious "downside" to propagating bamboo..................... `` F PF01 UNDEFINED qquit bamboo. Based on my experience, once a grove is established bamboo is a monster. It will drain nutrients from surrounding soil for 40-60 feet. It will sprout every which way and weaken and kill your (and your neighbor's) grass, rose bushes, ornamental trees and shrubs. It will sprout through swimming pool liners, and its root spread is impossible to stop. In some states it is classified a "noxious weed," not to be sold in commerce, and its owners can be responsible for the damage it causes to their neighbors' gardens and property. Commercial herbicides (e.g., "Roundup") affect it almost not at all, and removing it may well require a hiring a back hoe. It depresses property values, because no one in their senses would buy a house with bamboo in the yard, or on adjacent property. I struggled against this "Godzilla" for years, and, believe me, it has no redeeming qualities worth its destructiv eness. I lived in Japan two years, and, yeah, I know bamboo in Japanese garden s is lovely. But the Japanese take great care not to allow bamboo roots to spread by digging plants up and repacing them often, by growing them in buried concrete tubs, etc. You never see a thick grove of bamboo in a Japanese garden, because such a creature is a decidedly hostile act towards one's community. From samba!concert!rutgers!uwm.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!koko.csustan.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Tue Dec 29 09:40:07 EST 1992 Article: 12636 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rutgers!uwm.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!koko.csustan.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: raised garden beds? Message-ID: Date: 29 Dec 92 06:05:13 GMT References: <18966@mindlink.bc.ca> Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 6 A thought: You might just mound up the soil, as in the French-intensive and Chinese techniques. The mound can be about 4-5 feet wide. You get the benefits of raised beds without the cost of materials. Actually, the earthen beds may be better, since critters like snails and slugs may hide in the space between your material and the bed. Just my 2cents. From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bj368 Tue Dec 29 09:40:45 EST 1992 Article: 12637 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bj368 From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: propagating bamboo Date: 29 Dec 1992 08:19:16 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 17 Message-ID: <1hp1m4INN8vo@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu Surely bamboo deserves a bit more of respect and acceptance than the last posting indicates. I am not a botanist but I believe there are at least two main types: one of them grows in clumps and does not spread and the other type does send runners and spread. Also I have seen clumps of bamboo numerous times in gardens throughout North America and never heard that it poses a serious threat as far as taking away nutrients from nearby plants. In fact a great variety of plants do grow around bamboo. -- Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it looks promising.... |-) From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!olivea!uunet!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly Thu Dec 31 11:07:02 EST 1992 Article: 12661 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!olivea!uunet!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Worms and Home Composting in Winter Message-ID: <1hu1d1INN7lv@gap.caltech.edu> Date: 31 Dec 92 05:45:05 GMT References: <1htjioINN4pu@access.usask.ca> Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 83 NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu In article <1htjioINN4pu@access.usask.ca> goldie@herald.usask.ca (Hugh Goldie) writes: >I recently saw part of a Canadian news program from Winnipeg, about indoor >composting with red worms. I would be very thankful if someone could e-mail >or post some details about this, particularly where to get worms and how to >get started. It is -37 degrees centigrade in Saskabush right now and my >outdoor compost heap is probably working rather slowly... :-). Organic Gardening magazine had an article on this topic in the January 92 issue, by Mary Appelhof who wrote the book "Worms Eat My Garbage". The issue has plans for a *very* nice wormbin that fits well on a porch and doubles as a bench. It also included the following sources: Worms Eat My Garbage (book) for $10.50 (includ shipping) from: Flower Press 10332 Shaver Road Kalamazoo, MI 49002 Mary Appelhof also sells vermicomposting supplies including redworms and her latest worm composting system (a plastic rectangular container designed for indoor use, called 'The Worms Eat My Garbage Worm-a-way' made of recycled plastic manufactured by We recycle Corp. of Milton, Ont. Its manufacture provides employment for developmentally disabled individuals.) Write to: Flowerfield Enterprises 10332 Shaver Road Kalamazoo, MI 49002 (616) 327-0108 Also listed were: Cape Cod Worm Farm 30 Center Ave. Buzzards Bay, MA 02532 Carter Fishworm Farm Plains, GA 31780 Early Bird Ecology RR1 Smithville, ONT Canada L0R 2A0 (Not sure what they sell, but i would guess worms, and the plastic bin, perhaps the book.) Gardener's Supply 128 Intervale Rd Burlington, VT 05401 Free catalog, they sell the plastic bin, book and worms, and all three as a deal i believe. Redworms c/o Ron Clausen 2111 N. Century Blvd McDavid, FL 32568 Snooks Worm Farm Box 14 Harold, FL 32563 May I also add: Rainbow Worm Farm 24700 County Road No. 95 Davis, CA 95616 (916) 758-9906 I paid 21.00 (plus tax so it came to 22.31) for about two pounds of bedrun redworms, and they are very nice people. You *won't* get a 'flyer{ from them saying 'raising earthworms are so easy, even your wife could do it' as i got some certain farms located in places like georgia...:-) I've had bins (1'x 2'x 3' in size, 2 of them, made out of scrap wood with drainage holes,) outside for almost two years now, and i *love* them. I've had no problems with rats or flies or anything, they smell like dirt, not rotting stuff, and its just magic how my foodstuffs are turned into wonderful rich compost. I followed the directions in Mary's book, its a great book, and so is the OG article, and if your library has it, its free. I haven't tried her bin, nor seen one in person, so i can't comment on that. Kelly kelly@cco.caltech.edu From samba!concert!rutgers!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Dec 31 23:56:32 EST 1992 Article: 12676 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rutgers!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Books, etc. Message-ID: <1992Dec31.164541.9610@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 31 Dec 92 22:45:41 GMT Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 54 Just got through browsing the Pinetree Garden Seed Catalog over lunch [I was supposed to be editing my syllabi, but I'd sooner be thinking gardens ;-) ] and was pleased to notice that most of their seed prices are holding fairly steady, in the $0.50-$0.60 range. This is not meant as a testimonial, and I have no connection to the company except as a satisfied customer, but I've always found them to be truthful about their merchandise, and the seed quality quite good. However, they _also_ carry books and tools, and I noticed a few book bargains I thought I'd mention on the net... they appeal to my tight-fisted soul! ;-) How about the 1978 edition of _The Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening_ for $16.98? (The new edition is $30). Or Reddell & Galyean's _Growing Fragrant Plants_ for $15.98, marked down from $36 (I have a copy, and really like it.) Or Frances Perry's _Scent in the Garden_ for $15 instead of $35 (I like it, too) Or _Building & Using Greenhouses_ from the Grolier Homeowner series for $2.98, down from $10, or the LL Bean Guide to Outdoor Photography (Lefty Kreh) for $6 instead of $17? There are some newish books on the full-price list that look like they might answer some of the questions that pop up here fairly often, like _Pesto Manifesto_ by Lorel Nazzaro (110 pages of pesto recipes?!?!?) and Bill Adler's _Outwitting Critters: a surefire manual of confronting devious animals and winning_, or Ric Staines' _Market Gardening: Growing and selling produce_, which is supposed to have a major section on marketing strategies, or Ralph Hils' _Market what you grow_, a 50 pp workbook on the accounting needed in pricing commercial produce ($3 marked down from $10). I'm particularly looking forward to two books: Richard Goodman's _French Dirt_, about a year a New Yorker with no gardening experience, spent growing a garden the south of France-- mainly as a means of meeting people. (Hm... I've noticed even the stiffist Brit unbends and even smiles when talking to an enthusiastic Yank gardener ;-) ) The other book I'm not waiting for: I ordered it full price (gasp, choke!) Kathleen Yeoman's _The Able Gardener: Overcoming barriers of age and physical limitations_. She's an RN, writing about modifying garden techniques and tools for those of us with heart problems, back problems, arthritis, strokes, etc. I'll let you know how I like it... Pinetree Garden Seeds, Box 300, New Gloucester, ME 04260 (207) 926-3400 As I browse through other catalogs, I'll probably be bringing other bits and pieces to the attention of the net... Hope you'll share, too! Oh yes, got a nice note from Chiltern's the other day, with a packet of Desmodium gyrans that I'd been lusting for. Their catalog should be along any day now... 8-) Kay From samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!olivea!apple!netcomsv!netcom.com!hank Thu Dec 31 23:57:44 EST 1992 Article: 12644 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.gardens:12644 alt.sustainable.agriculture:492 Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!olivea!apple!netcomsv!netcom.com!hank From: hank@netcom.com (Hank Roberts) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,alt.sustainable.agriculture Subject: Re: Need alternative to chemical pesticides Message-ID: <1992Dec29.191336.5923@netcom.com> Date: 29 Dec 92 19:13:36 GMT References: <1992Dec28.220207.12425@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> <1992Dec29.023308.20434@samba.oit.unc.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 7 Today's (Tue, 12-29) NYTimes has a survey article worth reading: about resistance developing, and how to alternate among different poisons while leaving some unsprayed area, so the vulnerable genes stay in the local pest population. They give some references. Summary: use any one toxin including BT, and resistance develops. From samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!ivgate!mtask!Bob.Batson Sat Jan 2 11:29:57 EST 1993 Article: 12686 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!ivgate!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Internship Available at Callaway Gardens Message-ID: <04.2b455dc4@ivgate> Date: 01 Jan 93 12:53:15 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@ivgate.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 20 Internship Opportunity at Callaway Gardens Callaway Gardens, site of Victory Garden South, where segments of the PBS-TV series "The Victory Garden" are taped, is seeking an junior-level horticulture/agriculture/biology student to serve as an intern for March-August 1993. Duties will include assisting in all phases of horticultural activities for Victory Garden South and other vegetable plots, preparing for taping sessions, attending bi-weekly intern classes, and completing a special project. Compensation will include an hourly wage plus housing. For an application form (deadline: February 1, 1993) and additional information, write to Dr. William E. Barrick, Executive Vice President & Director of Gardens, Callaway Gardens, P.O. Box 2000, Pine Mountain, GA 31822. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reprinted with permission from the December 1992 _HortIdeas_. Copyright 1992 by Greg and Pat Williams. HortIdeas is $15 (2nd class mail within the USA) for one year (12 issues). For more information or a subscription, write: HortIdeas, 460 Black Lick Road, Gravel Switch, KY 40328, USA. From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!usc!not-for-mail Sat Jan 2 20:34:06 EST 1993 Article: 12688 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!usc!not-for-mail From: montana@mizar.usc.edu (Robert Montana) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Rose sources - Dainty Bess Date: 2 Jan 1993 13:34:20 -0800 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 9 Distribution: na Message-ID: <1i51osINNkkk@mizar.usc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu ...or was it Golden Wings. Somebody requested source for one of these varieties a couple of weeks ago. I just received a 1993 availability list from Vintage Gardens. They offer both varieties. Vintage Gardens 3003 Pleasant Hill Road Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 829-5342 From samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!netcomsv!cichlid!aab Sun Jan 3 22:49:30 EST 1993 Article: 12694 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.gardens:12694 rec.aquaria:16381 sci.aquaria:2922 Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!netcomsv!cichlid!aab From: aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) Subject: Re: pond underweater plants Message-ID: <1993Jan3.191701.10898@cichlid.com> Organization: Independent Software Contractor References: Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 19:17:01 GMT Lines: 18 In lp@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond) writes: >Does anyone in the Berkeley area have more pond under water (oxygenating) >plants than they need, or know of a source for cheap ones? They're so >expensive at the aquarium stores, and my fish have been eating them too fast >for them to really grow. Thanks. Underwater oxygenating plants are a pondkeepers myth -- they add scant oxygen to the water and in darkness actually compete with fish for oxygen. Water is oxygenated at the surface by absorbing atmospheric oxygen. Circulation and agitation will increase the amount of oxygen in water. Only grow plants if you like the way they look. Andy -- ============================================================================== Andrew A. Burgess aab@cichlid.com voice (408) 335 4779 ============================================================================== From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!amara!wybo Mon Jan 4 11:07:24 EST 1993 Article: 12698 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!amara!wybo From: wybo@adi.com (Dave Wybo) Subject: availability of a plant database Message-ID: <1993Jan4.144546.20640@adi.com> Sender: news@adi.com Nntp-Posting-Host: halibut Organization: Applied Dynamics Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:45:46 GMT Lines: 27 In trying to start up a native plant business, I quickly tire of manually matching appropriate plants to the clients growing conditions, habitat, color preferences, etc. I have found several very good references in hard copy form, but was wondering if anyone knows of an online form of any of these books, preferably in a database that can be quickly searched and sorted by a variety of classifications. Does anyone know of the availability of such a thing? If so, where can I get it? If not, do you think that, considering the number of flower books that are sold each year, that there would be a market for such a thing? Would you prefer UNIX, DOS, or MACOS? Any favorite data base packages to target it to? Thanks for your help. If there is enough interest, I will keep this newsgroup appraised of any progress. BTW, please respond directly, as I do not receive this newsgroup. Thanks a bunch. dave -- -- Dave Wybo Applied Dynamics, 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, MI 48108 (313) 973-1300 Internet: wybo@adi.com uucp: (sharkey|heifetz)!amara!wybo -- From samba!concert!gatech!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!yale!gumby!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!UB.com!quack!pharvey Tue Jan 5 11:39:50 EST 1993 Article: 12720 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.gardens:12720 alt.pagan:23180 Newsgroups: rec.gardens,alt.pagan Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!yale!gumby!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!UB.com!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: Herb names Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: Date: 5 Jan 1993 03:27:56 UTC Lines: 60 In article ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson) writes: >I have a list of plants with only common names. Most of the plants I >have been able to identify, but not all, so I am turning to the >netters for help. Here is the list: >S:t Joan's (or S:t John's) wort (the sun) Hypericum perforatum - St. John's wort. The herb and fruit are sometimes used as a tea. Flowers can be used for making mead. Eurasia. >all-heal (mars) Prunella vulgaris - Self-heal, All-heal. A refreshing beverage can be made by soaking the leaves, either freshly chopped or dried and powdered, in cold water. Young shoots and leaves are eaten raw in salads, cooked with other greens as a potherb, or added to soups and stews. Eurasia, naturalized in N. America. >betony (mars) Stachys officinalis - Betony, Bishop's wort. An infusion of the leaves and flowering tops makes a refreshing, aromatic beverage. Europe. >High Joan the Conqueress (or John the Conqueror) root(money) >broom tops (protection) Broomcorn for making brooms? Panicum miliaceum, Sorghum bicolor ... >gota cola (energy) Centella asiatica - Gotu-kola, Indian pennywort. The leaves are eaten raw in tossed salads, steamed and served with rice, or cooked in vegetable soups and stews. In Thailand the juice of the leaves is used as a refershing drink. A tea made from the leaves, called long-life tea, was regularly consumed by Professor Li Chung Yon, who reputedly lived 265 years and married 24 times. Warmer regions of the Old World. >The associations of the author of the book are listed to the right, >though I doubt that they will help. What I need, is some kind of other >identification, either another common name, or a systematic (latin) >name. The above common names are verbatim quotes. >The source of the names is Starhawk's _The_Spiral_Dance_. One last >question, are bay laurel and laurel the same plant? Lauraceae - Juss. Laurel Family. Dicot.; about 47 genera and 2,000-2,500 spp. of trees and shrubs, often aromatic, native mainly to trop. and subtrop. regions ... Among other economic products, members of the family yield camphor (Cinnamomum camphora), cassia (C. cassia), cinnamon (C. zeylanicum), the avocado (Persea americana), and important timbers (Aniba, Nectandra, etc.). So, many plants are called laurels, in fact some aren't even members of the family. THE Greco/Roman laurel is Laurus nobilis, aka laurel, bay laurel, sweet bay, the leaf used to make spaghetti sauce. The California laurel is Umbellularia californica, aka laurel, bay laurel, Oregon Myrtle, the leaf used to make spaghetti sauce. Ref: Cornucopia, A Source Book of Edible Plants, Stephen Facciola, Kampong Publications, Vista, CA, ISBN: 0-9628087-0-9 Hortus III, Macmillan Publishing, NY, Collier Macmillan Publishing, London From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!uniwa!nfm Tue Jan 5 11:40:36 EST 1993 Article: 12721 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!uniwa!nfm From: arkdr@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Dave Rindos) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: seed catalogs Date: 5 Jan 1993 10:06:25 +0800 Organization: The University of Western Australia Lines: 12 Message-ID: <1iaqf1INN60b@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> References: <1993Jan2.201613.29134@news.acns.nwu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au drmax@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marianna Max) writes: >Well this is probably a FAQ but here goes. I would like addresses, or >better yet phone numbers of seed companies so that I can order their >catalogs. I'm interested in both flower and veggie seeds, primarily though, >things that can be grown in containers. Check out the company listings in Stephen Facciola's _Cornucopia_ [Kampong Pub, Vista, 1990]. He gives *only* about 1400 sources [!] Dave, still overwhelmed by this book From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!torn!utgpu!richter Tue Jan 5 11:41:08 EST 1993 Article: 12722 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!torn!utgpu!richter From: richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) Subject: Re: Source for Holy Basil Message-ID: Organization: UTCS Public Access References: <1993Jan3.043202.6363@brtph560.bnr.ca> Distribution: na Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 06:49:43 GMT Lines: 27 In article <1993Jan3.043202.6363@brtph560.bnr.ca> bhaskar@brtph181.bnr.ca (Shaji Bhaskar) writes: > >Some time ago, someone had posted the address of a mail-order source >for this plant. > >Can someone email me this information or post it? Thanks a bunch. There are two basils that are sold as "holy" basil in North America. The first is what is more properly called "sacred basil" is _Ocimum sanctum_. It comes in several forms, including purplish and greenish forms (which are otherwise much the same). This basil is probably the one most commonly grown in India at temples, and is the one used in "prasad." Its flavour and odour is quite pleasant. The other "holy" basil is a hybrid between _Ocimum canum_ and _O. basilicum_ (the common sweet basil) with a strong spicy flavour. To avoid confusion with the true sacred basil, we call it spice basil. It too is recognized as sacred by Hindus, but it is not as common as_O. sanctum_. Both varieties are available from several herb outfits in the States. We carry seeds for both, and we ship to the U.S. -- Conrad Richter richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca Richters Herbs 71550.3411@compuserve.com Goodwood, ON L0C 1AO Canada Tel 416-640-6677 / Fax 416-640-6641 From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!news.qut.edu.au!qut.edu.au!rees Tue Jan 5 11:41:47 EST 1993 Article: 12723 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!news.qut.edu.au!qut.edu.au!rees From: rees@qut.edu.au Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: re: Worms and Home Composting in Winter Message-ID: <1993Jan5.171058.61439@qut.edu.au> Date: 5 Jan 93 17:10:58 EST Organization: Queensland University of Technology Lines: 44 I live in subtropical Australia. The native worms here are not at all suited to vermiculture ("worm growing"), and therefore it is standard practice to use imported "Europian" worms, in particular - Red wrigglers, or red worms (rubricus rubellus, from memory) or Tiger worms (eisenia foetida) - which I believe are the most common worms for worm-composting the world over. Here are a few worm-raising guidelines: 1) Allow plenty of drainage. Worm bedding should be wet enough that you can squeeze a few droplets of water from a handful 2) Try and keep the ph roughly neutral. Mix in some ground limestone (NOT garden lime or quicklime!) with their feed. You can be quite liberal. This keeps the feed from `souring'. 3) Feed them a relatively small amount at a time (if it starts to rot/ferment before they get to it they will likely get `sick') and be thoughtful about what you put in as feed. Throwing in large chunks of food is a bit silly, as it will need to decompose by microbial action before the worms can digest it and it is likely to sour their environment while doing so. Half rotted compost (with lots of lime) is ok. Some feeds they really seem to like are: Any kind of manure Coffee grounds or tea leaves Cereals Grass clippings 4) The worms will reproduce very quickly (especially if you are feeding them manure. You only need 50 or so to begin with. Remember they reproduce by colliding, so if you want them to breed, you should keep them fairly constricted - don't go putting 50 worms in a huge expanse of bedding material. The vermicompost the worms produce is extremely high in available nutrients, although you can use as much as you like without any chance of burning the roots of the recipient plant. In short, great fertilizer, and a great soil conditioner. Hope this info is useful to someone! Darryl Rees Queensland University of Technology d.rees@qut.edu.au From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!ivgate!mtask!Bob.Batson Tue Jan 5 11:43:31 EST 1993 Article: 12727 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!ivgate!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Source for Holy Basil Message-ID: <67.2b4949b3@ivgate> Date: 04 Jan 93 13:21:35 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@ivgate.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 26 bhaskar@brtph181.bnr.ca (Shaji Bhaskar) writes: > Some time ago, someone had posted the address of a mail-order source > for this plant. > Can someone email me this information or post it? Thanks a bunch. SANDY MUSH HERB NURSERY [CAT - $4] Rt. 2 [MIN. ORD. - $20] Surrett Cove Rd. Leicester, NC 28748 (704) 683-2014 -------- CATNIP ACRES HERB FARM [CAT - $2] 67 Christian St. Oxford, CT 06483 -------- CASA YERBA GARDENS [CAT - SASE] 3459 Days Creek Road Days Creek, OR 97429 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!dtix!oasys!cusanell Tue Jan 5 11:44:12 EST 1993 Article: 12728 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!dtix!oasys!cusanell From: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic Cusanelli) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Seedlings under lights and legginess Message-ID: <29247@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 5 Jan 93 12:00:32 GMT References: <1992Dec31.222454.16873@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <1993Jan4.130202.12959@walter.cray.com> Reply-To: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic Cusanelli) Distribution: na Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD Lines: 19 I've been growing tomatoes, peppers, and a whole host of other plants from seed indoors for years. They do take some careful attendence. However, the rewards are worth it! To answer your question - hardening off is extreeeeemly impor- tant. But long before this, any time a tomatoe plant becomes tall and week - simply snip off the lowest leaves and replant it in a deeper container. If you don't have something deeper, carefully bend the stem around in whatever you have and plant it right up to those bottom leaves. You will be amazed at the groth spurts you'll trigger. I do this at least THREE times befor the plants ever get outside. I also do this with most other plants - HOWEVER - each time I only plant the seedling about 1/2 to 1 inch deeper. Also remember - do not use fertilizer on the seedlings until they have at least 4 - 6 true leaves. Don't count the germination leaves. GOOD LUCK. From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!news Wed Jan 6 12:52:02 EST 1993 Article: 12741 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!news From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Pond underwater plants Message-ID: <1993Jan6.003327.7567@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Date: 6 Jan 93 00:33:27 GMT Sender: news@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT Lines: 46 In article 1993Jan4.175737.26340@voodoo.ca.boeing.com> mnb@miraca.boeing.com (Mike Burr) writes: > >In article <1993Jan3.191701.10898@cichlid.com> > aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) writes: >> >>Underwater oxygenating plants are a pondkeepers myth -- they add scant >>oxygen to the water and in darkness actually compete with fish for oxygen. >> > >Andy, > >Your statement is contradictory to everything I have read - both on pond >maintenance and general ecological reading. I'm sure other people are >curious as well as to how you have arrived at this conclusion. Could >you please your sources and/or data that have led you to this conclusion? > >Thanks, > > >-- >Michael Burr Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA > Email:mnb@voodoo.ca.boeing.com > Andy is correct. Plants produce oxygen only in the presence of light. How bright depends on the species. This is because plants have two respiratory cycles. One is the same as any animal, using oxygen and sugar to produceg CO2. The other, using light and chlorophyll uses CO2 and produces O2 and sugar. The first takes place all the time but is overpowered by the second when there is enough light. You sould find discussion of this in any basic biology text. What plants do help with is to absorb some of the waste products of fish, thus keeping the pond from getting to nutrified (provided that some of the weed are harvested from time to time). Pond weeds make GREAT mulch and compost. They are guaranteed to be weed-seed free and full of nutrients. I harvest the ones that grown at my beach area and haul them up to my garden. GOOD STUFF. --Jill -- A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | Miller Microcomputer Services | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcc05!hpcc01!jill Wed Jan 6 12:53:29 EST 1993 Article: 12742 of rec.gardens From: jill@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Jill Swenson) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:12:36 GMT Subject: Golden Gate Gardening Message-ID: <3740069@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> Organization: the HP Corporate notes server Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcc05!hpcc01!jill Newsgroups: rec.gardens Lines: 41 Kind of a postscript on the "what do gardeners want for Christmas" string... This is what I got and I LOVE it! My favorite Christmas present was a book especially for those of us gardening in the fog belt from Santa Monica up into Oregon. Specifically the foggy areas near the ocean with cool summers, warm autumns and mild winters. The book is called "Golden Gate Gardening" by Pam Peirce (yes, "e" before "i") and is available from agAccess in Davis (916) 756-7177. Call for a price. I don't know much about agAccess, but their catalog lists oodles of agriculture and horticulture books, videotapes and research services. Sounds pretty neat. The author has obviously gardened for years in San Francisco and isn't afraid to share both successes and failures. The book covers what will and will not grow in foggy, borderline and relatively sunny areas, recommends especially successful varieties and when to plant them. It shows how to interpret such statements as "as soon as the ground can be worked" in an area where the ground never freezes, tells about expected frustrations (a corn listed for 55 days takes 90 days in a sunny SF garden), and tells why our weather is the way it is. The book covers vegetables, herbs, fruit trees and some flowers in detail. The descriptions include likely pests and diseases and sources for seed/plants. She also not only mentions weeds, bugs and diseases, but tells which ones are likely to be a problem (the Colorado potato beetle hasn't shown up here yet, the tomato hornworm doesn't like coastal weather, but snails and slugs are rampant). She approaches problems by first telling you the least toxic way to deal with a situation, and works up to the chemicals. She also reviews common pesticides, explaining their toxicity and suggesting which one to use when you have a choice. Finally, she tosses in some recipes for using your harvest, references sources for seeds, plants, supplies, cooperative extension offices and educational outlets, and includes a detailed bibliography of books that she found useful. This book is absolutely wonderful, and the author really knows her stuff. The planting advice is pretty specific to the coast and won't apply as well to warmer areas such as Palo Alto or Santa Rosa, but many of the pest control and information resources are helpful for all. Check it out! Jill Swenson jill@corp.hp.com From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!scifi!watson!littlecheese.manassas.ibm.com!dave Fri Jan 8 15:57:42 EST 1993 Article: 12786 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!scifi!watson!littlecheese.manassas.ibm.com!dave From: dave@littlecheese.manassas.ibm.com () Subject: Re: selling tomato plants Sender: @watson.ibm.com Message-ID: <1993Jan08.113152.14598@watson.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 11:31:52 GMT Reply-To: irby@vnet.ibm.com References: Organization: IBM, Federal Systems Company Lines: 26 In article , psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes: I also sell at markets and we sell quite a few plants each spring. |> * # pots per pak; size of pots; and whether to use peat-type or |> plastic We use plastic paks with six cells per pack (leads to 48 cells/flat). We also cut the packs up for customers who don't want a full six-pack. We usually give a price break if they buy six of the same plant (we don't have to cut the pak up then). Other vendors at our markets use the peat pots and they seem to work well. I would suggest you just use whatever you would use for yourself. I have been thinking of switching to peat pots and while they certainly cost more than the plastic paks the cost isn't unreasonable. |> * any vegetable plants that sell well in the spring other than |> pepper/tomato If you grow any herbs (especially Basils) they tend to sell very well. We also had quite a few people asking for cucumber seedlings this year (although we don't grow any). -- David Irby irby@vnet.ibm.com Dammit Jim! - All ideas and opinions expressed herein are my own. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!convex!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!brtph560!brtph181!bhaskar Sat Jan 9 21:34:27 EST 1993 Article: 12799 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!convex!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!brtph560!brtph181!bhaskar From: bhaskar@brtph181.bnr.ca (Shaji Bhaskar) Subject: Re: Pond underwater plants Message-ID: <1993Jan9.153047.16806@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: BNR Inc. RTP, NC References: <1993Jan6.003327.7567@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <27753@sybase.sybase.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 15:30:47 GMT Lines: 19 In article <27753@sybase.sybase.com> karenp@sybase.com (Karen Paulsell) writes: > >This year, the "Parrot's Feather" that I planted a couple years >ago really took off, and the pond is the clearest it has been in >the four years I've lived here: I think that's it's because the >plant is competing with the algae for the nutrients. Opinions? This is a fairly well-accepted view in aquarium circles. Elodea aka Egeria aka Anacharis species is a faster-growing plant and is probably better at controlling algae. It, like the Parrot's Feather (Myriophyllum) should survive outdoors through the winter if you have a deep enough pond. Duckweed, if you can put up with its appearance, could help too, by cutting down the amount of light available to the algae. -Shaji -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Shaji Bhaskar BNR, Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 (bhaskar@bnr.ca) From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc13!afong Sat Jan 9 21:35:15 EST 1993 Article: 12800 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc13!afong From: afong@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Krell Kraver) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Worms and Home Composting in Winter Message-ID: <43250@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 9 Jan 93 19:24:29 GMT References: <43089@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> <1993Jan7.143118.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca> Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Organization: University of California, San Diego Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc13.ucsd.edu In article <1993Jan7.143118.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca> mnewton@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes: >sides near the top by hammering in nails. Seems to work fine. My only problem >seems to be an overabundance of fruit flies, just as the worm lady warned. I have found that the population levels go up and down. At one point there were a lot and I found them very annoying. Most of the time, however, there aren't very many. I wish I knew what influenced their numbers. I have found that there are 30 spiders living in the worm bin lid (they seem to have adapted well to the regular opening and closing!). I think they have a lot to do with keeping the numbers down, considering how many there are and how large they grow. You might try experiments with pH levels to see if you can produce an environment unfavorable to fruit fly breeding but favorable to composting. From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!pqq Sat Jan 9 21:36:55 EST 1993 Article: 12761 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.gardens:12761 rec.aquaria:16439 sci.aquaria:2929 Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!pqq Organization: Penn State University Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:49:16 EST From: Message-ID: <93006.204916PQQ@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria Subject: Re: pond underweater plants References: <1993Jan3.191701.10898@cichlid.com> Lines: 19 In article <1993Jan3.191701.10898@cichlid.com>, aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) says: >Underwater oxygenating plants are a pondkeepers myth -- they add scant >oxygen to the water and in darkness actually compete with fish for oxygen. >Water is oxygenated at the surface by absorbing atmospheric oxygen. >Circulation and agitation will increase the amount of oxygen in >water. Only grow plants if you like the way they look. This is very misleading. Many agressive plants (like milfoil) add substantial oxygen to water bringing it to well above saturation. We use plants in microcosms to teach students about the goings on of things aquatic, and 6 15cm long strands of milfoil in a 10 gal aquarium will grow quickly,overcoming sediment oxygen demand,and raising dissolved oxygen to 18+mg/L (well above theoretical saturation). Of course, the plants need a decent light source. Dick Pratt BITNET:pqq@psuvm INTERNET: pqq@psuvm.psu.edu 7 Ferguson Bldg. Penn State University Park, PA 16802 814/865-6942 From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!news Sat Jan 9 21:37:55 EST 1993 Article: 12741 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!news From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Pond underwater plants Message-ID: <1993Jan6.003327.7567@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Date: 6 Jan 93 00:33:27 GMT Sender: news@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT Lines: 46 In article 1993Jan4.175737.26340@voodoo.ca.boeing.com> mnb@miraca.boeing.com (Mike Burr) writes: > >In article <1993Jan3.191701.10898@cichlid.com> > aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) writes: >> >>Underwater oxygenating plants are a pondkeepers myth -- they add scant >>oxygen to the water and in darkness actually compete with fish for oxygen. >> > >Andy, > >Your statement is contradictory to everything I have read - both on pond >maintenance and general ecological reading. I'm sure other people are >curious as well as to how you have arrived at this conclusion. Could >you please your sources and/or data that have led you to this conclusion? > >Thanks, > > >-- >Michael Burr Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA > Email:mnb@voodoo.ca.boeing.com > Andy is correct. Plants produce oxygen only in the presence of light. How bright depends on the species. This is because plants have two respiratory cycles. One is the same as any animal, using oxygen and sugar to produceg CO2. The other, using light and chlorophyll uses CO2 and produces O2 and sugar. The first takes place all the time but is overpowered by the second when there is enough light. You sould find discussion of this in any basic biology text. What plants do help with is to absorb some of the waste products of fish, thus keeping the pond from getting to nutrified (provided that some of the weed are harvested from time to time). Pond weeds make GREAT mulch and compost. They are guaranteed to be weed-seed free and full of nutrients. I harvest the ones that grown at my beach area and haul them up to my garden. GOOD STUFF. --Jill -- A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | Miller Microcomputer Services | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | From samba!concert!gatech!emory!wupost!cs.uiuc.edu!vela!altern8!FredMail Sun Jan 10 14:31:41 EST 1993 Article: 12809 of rec.gardens From: Val.Gillman@altern8.mi.org (Val Gillman) Sender: FredMail@altern8.mi.org Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!wupost!cs.uiuc.edu!vela!altern8!FredMail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Northern Orchards Message-ID: <726623235.2@altern8.mi> Date: 07 Jan 93 00:00:00 EST Lines: 24 >Newsgroups: rec.gardens >I am in the process of planning a family orchard in Northern Michigan. >The area is in a zone 5 because of lake buffering but is surrounded >by zone 4. Can anyone give some advice on what types of trees will >do well here? I live in zone 5 in Freeland, MI. Apples and pears seem happy, peaches don't last forever but are worth it to me. Once tried Reliance peach which was super hardy, but it tasted inferior. Here we have the peach tree borer, which was instrumental in causing the demise of all my peaches. I read that the trees can resist borers easier if they aren't stressed by the cold already. Apricots bloom too early and get caught by frost most years. Cherries are o.k. Plums are hardy but I can't grow them because of rampant plum curculio which I've found impossible to control by organic means. Maybe they're not bad where you are. Last year I lost a persimmon but I can't tell if the split trunk was caused by non-hardiness. You could try paw paws. I have a couple babies so I haven't tried them long enough to reccomend them. Hope this helps. * XXYW 1.12 * I've got a Friends of Rutabaga meeting. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc10!cs161fcd Mon Jan 11 23:00:58 EST 1993 Article: 12828 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc10!cs161fcd From: cs161fcd@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Sean Maschue) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Setting-out onions by the moon Keywords: moon lunar gravity onions alliums Message-ID: <43344@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 11 Jan 93 22:36:43 GMT Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Lines: 16 Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc10.ucsd.edu Quick Question: What is the proper phase of the moon to set out onion bulbs by? Waning seems familiar to me, but I can't remember? Also, while on the subject of onions, does anyone know about this thing that the Guatamalan Mayan descendants do called onion terracing? Thanks. xoxo sean -- sean maschue From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!A.S.Chamove Mon Jan 11 23:01:40 EST 1993 Article: 12830 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!A.S.Chamove Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Questions concerning SALSIFY/VEGETABLE OYSTER Message-ID: <1993Jan11.234313.13285@massey.ac.nz> From: A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 23:43:13 GMT References: <1isao0INNjjf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c Lines: 29 Salsify used to be a common veg in Scotland and is sold in shops there on an irregular basis. People there grow it in poor, sandy soil like other root veg. I used to remove a trench, mix the soil half with lots of sawdust (locks up nitrogen and conditions soil) and sand, and then replace it. The seeds are slow germinating so plant with radish. I used to peel before cooking but after might be better as the peeling releases a sap that is difficult to remove from your hands. I find that a quick (5min) boil followed by a quick fry is the tastiest. The taste is sort of oyster but also like globe artichoke--very nice and good if you like variety. I was always of the opinion that gardens are best used to grow stuff that you cannot get in the shops or are expensive there, so I recommend Salsify on that basis too. If you are running out of space, why not consider a "deep bed"; there you grow more in a smaller space as long as you do not tread on the soil. Other interesting veg common on the continent are Jerusulem artichokes ( a knobly potatoe-like thing very easy to grow ). They grow easily in scotland so should do in most of the USA. Choose smooth tubers for planting if possible--eat cooked or raw also. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold Chamove Massey University Psychology Palmerston North, New Zealand From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!lgc.com!lgc.com!jrm Mon Jan 11 23:07:06 EST 1993 Article: 12831 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!lgc.com!lgc.com!jrm From: jrm@lgc.com (John Moore) Subject: epazote Message-ID: <1993Jan12.000445.7782@lgc.com> Sender: usenet@lgc.com Nntp-Posting-Host: moore.lgc.com Organization: Landmark Graphics Corp., Houston, Tx. Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:04:45 GMT Lines: 12 Does anybody know where I can get seed for some "epazote". It's an herb that looks like cilantro but tastes much different. The herb is used in tortilla soup, corn husk, chilaquiles, and the like. Any info would be appreciated. -- *-------------------------------------------------------------* * John R. Moore Landmark Graphics Corporation * 15150 Memorial Drive Houston, TX 77079-4304 * jmoore@lgc.com (713)-560-1080 From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ct076 Mon Jan 11 23:07:52 EST 1993 Article: 12837 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ct076 From: ct076@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael T. Loos) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Micronutrient Frits Date: 12 Jan 1993 01:21:11 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1it6e7INN8h8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu I am looking for a United States source for fritted micronutrients. The glass frits I have found are generally available to farmers and commercial green industry types working on a HUGE scale. Most of the chemical manufacturers do not deal with the retail public. I realize that there are fertilizers available which have micronutrients included, but I need something which does not easily dissolve. I would appreciate contacts. Michael Loos ct076@cleveland.freenet.edu Thank you From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Mon Jan 11 23:09:03 EST 1993 Article: 12840 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: When to Prune Damaged Trees? Message-ID: <1993Jan11.195524.9763@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 11 Jan 93 19:55:24 -0600 References: Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 18 In article , rmura@world.std.com (Ron Mura) writes: > We had a major snowstorm in mid-December and trees suffered > a lot of damage. Should limbs that were broken and are still > half-attached be cut off now, or should I leave them as-is until > warmer weather? (The tree in need of most attention is a hawthorn.) I prefer to prune just as soon as possible after the damage has occured because if limbs are still attached to the tree, more weather can pull the branches down more, taking off gory hunks of bark and possibly killing the tree. Sometimes it just isn't feasible to do a really good job of pruning right after a storm. In that case, I cut off as much of the branch as I can, just to relieve the weight of the branch. Then I do the proper tidying up just as soon as I can after that-- though it might be a month or more later. Kay Klier From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU!RCOOKE Tue Jan 12 12:13:54 EST 1993 Article: 12843 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU!RCOOKE From: rcooke@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (RON COOKE) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: epazote Message-ID: <1itfveINNcmi@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> Date: 12 Jan 93 04:03:58 GMT References: <1993Jan12.000445.7782@lgc.com> Reply-To: rcooke@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU Distribution: usa Organization: California State University, Chico Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: oavax.csuchico.edu In article <1993Jan12.000445.7782@lgc.com>, jrm@lgc.com (John Moore) writes: >Does anybody know where I can get seed for some "epazote". > >It's an herb that looks like cilantro but tastes much different. > >The herb is used in tortilla soup, corn husk, chilaquiles, and the like. > >Any info would be appreciated. >-- >*-------------------------------------------------------------* >* John R. Moore Landmark Graphics Corporation >* 15150 Memorial Drive Houston, TX 77079-4304 >* jmoore@lgc.com (713)-560-1080 Here are some sources: Horticultural Enterprises PO Box 810082 Dallas, TX 75381 Plants of the Southwest 3950 W.New York Drive Tucson, AZ 85745 Cat. $1.00 Richters Goodwood, Ontario Canada, LOC 1AO Cat. $2.50 Ron and Lucy Cooke ********************************************************** RON COOKE,CHEMISTRY DEPARTMENT CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY-CHICO CHICO, CA 95929-0210 RCOOKE@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!richter Tue Jan 12 12:14:37 EST 1993 Article: 12844 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!richter From: richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) Subject: Re: epazote Message-ID: Organization: UTCS Public Access References: <1993Jan12.000445.7782@lgc.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:11:59 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1993Jan12.000445.7782@lgc.com> jrm@lgc.com (John Moore) writes: >Does anybody know where I can get seed for some "epazote". > >It's an herb that looks like cilantro but tastes much different. > >The herb is used in tortilla soup, corn husk, chilaquiles, and the like. Isn't it great. I got to love it when I lived in Guatemala for a few months. It is also known as "American wormseed" because it was used as a vermifuge. Botanical name is _Chenopodium ambrosiodes_. We have seeds available: Packet/$1.25, 1g/$7, 10g/$29 (Canadian funds). -- Conrad Richter richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca Richters Herbs 71550.3411@compuserve.com Goodwood, ON L0C 1AO Canada Tel 416-640-6677 / Fax 416-640-6641 From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!veritas!oleg Tue Jan 12 12:15:56 EST 1993 Article: 12845 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.gardens:12845 rec.aquaria:16524 sci.aquaria:2952 Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!veritas!oleg From: oleg@Veritas.COM (Oleg Kiselev) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria Subject: Re: pond underweater plants Message-ID: <1993Jan12.011941.22964@Veritas.COM> Date: 12 Jan 93 01:19:41 GMT References: <1993Jan3.191701.10898@cichlid.com> <93006.204916PQQ@psuvm.psu.edu> Reply-To: oleg@veritas.com (Oleg Kiselev) Organization: Palo Alto Killifish Loft Lines: 20 PQQ@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >aquatic, and 6 15cm long strands of milfoil in a 10 gal aquarium will Which one of the milfoils were you using? There are several species of them and the one I have tried have tried was a very fast grower (in full unfiltered sunlight), but insisted on the immersed rather than submersed growing habit. In fact, very few of its leaves were underwater. >plants need a decent light source. What do you consider "a decent light source"? I.e. watt or lumen per sq. ft., type of lighting, etc. A fast-growing ammonia consumer is perfect plant for an unfiltered tank and I have not been able to strike the balance bewteen the light requirements and the usability in a small tank: Java moss grows too slowly, Cabomba requires way too much light... -- Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian. Oleg Kiselev oleg@veritas.com VERITAS Software ...!{apple|uunet}!veritas!oleg From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!amara!wybo Tue Jan 12 12:18:44 EST 1993 Article: 12848 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!amara!wybo From: wybo@adi.com (Dave Wybo) Subject: references on wildflowers Message-ID: <1993Jan12.144549.21441@adi.com> Sender: news@adi.com Nntp-Posting-Host: halibut Organization: Applied Dynamics Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:45:49 GMT Lines: 132 Here are some references, for those who expressed interest, on growing and/or propagating wildflowers. Forgive the slant towards the midwest, but the list would be *much* shorter if I tried to include all references, because I would have given up long ago. Those texts with comments are ones that I have personally read. Those with no comments are recommended from various sources but I have not reviewed them. I can recommend each of the sources that I have reviewed as being of value. I did find that a some texts will appear less valuable if you read them too early in your learning curve. Later on, you may find them to be more valuable as reference material. Anyway, have fun. There are also some very interesting organizations who are interested in wildflowers. I won't bother to try to gather a list, because most of them are regional or for a particular state. However, for a start, try: Clearinghouse of the National Wildflower Research Center 2600 FM 973 North Austin TX 78725 512-929-3600 They have tons of good info. I talked to a young lady there that was *most* interesting and helpful, but I won't tell you who. If you are interested in finding out more, you will eventually discover who it is. Text References The Wildflower Meadow Book, A Gardener's Guide Martin, Laura C. The Globe Pequot Press Chester, Connecticut 1990 ISBN 0-87106-436-7 Seemingly referenced by all meadow seed vendors Michigan Wildflowers Lund, Harry C. Altworger and Mandel Publishing West Bloomfield, MI 1992 ISBM 0-9614818-0-3 The Concise Encyclopaedia of Favorite Wildflowers Dietz, Marjorie J. Weathervane Books NY 1965 Old book, only b/w sketches, no photos, but still a good reference Perennials for American Gardens Clausen, Ruth Rogers and Ekstrom, Nicolas H. Random House 1989 A very good general reference on perennials, not just wildflowers, good color photos and details on main species of each genus Field Guide of N. American Wildflowers Eastern Region Audobon Society Alfred A. Knopf Publishers, NY 1988 ISBM 0-394-50432-1 Good reference, with photos and info regarding wildflowers, both meadow and woodland, of the east. Home Guide to Trees, Shrubs, and Wildflowers Grimm, William Carey Bonanza Books, NY 1965 Old book, only b/w sketches, no photos, but still a good reference Growing and Propagating Wildflowers Phillips, Harry R. Univ. of North Carolina Press 1985 ISBN 0-8078-1648-5 Hardcover ISBN 0-8078-4131-5 paperback Landscaping With Wildflowers Wilson, Jim Houghton Mifflin Co. 1992 ISBN 0-395-56520-0 The Wildflower Book, East of the Rockies Stokes, Donald and Lillian Little, Brown, and Co. 1992 ISBN 0-316-81786-4 Gardening By Mail III Barton, Barbara Wildflowers and Weeds Courtney, Booth and Zimmerman, James Van Nostrand, NY 1972 Illus. Flora of NE U.S. and Canada Gleason, Henry A. N.Y. Botanical Garden, NY 1974 Flora of Kalamazoo Co. MI Hanes, Clarence and Florence Anthoensen Press, Portland ME 1947 Wildflowers of the U.S. Part 1, NE States Rickett, H.W. N.Y. Botanical Garden, NY 1965 Michigan Wildflowers Smith, Helen Cranbrook Institute of Science, Bulletin 42, Bloomfield Hills MI 1961 313-645-3255 Michigan Flora Voss, Edward Cranbrook Institute of Science, Bulletin 42, Bloomfield Hills MI 1972 313-645-3255 How to Know the Wildflowers Dana, W.S. Growing Woodland Plants Birdseye and Birdseye Field Guide to Wildflowers Petersonand McKenny Gardening With Wildflowers Brooklyn Botanic Gardens The Prairie Garden Smith and Smith The Wildflower Gardener's Guide Art, Henry W. A Garden of Wildflowers Art, Henry W. Park's Success With Seeds Reilly, Ann -- -- Dave Wybo Real Time Consultants, P.O. Box 83, New Hudson, MI 48165-0083 Currently working at: (313) 973-1300 Internet: wybo@adi.com -- From samba!concert!gatech!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!kth.se!lysator.liu.se!ceci Tue Jan 12 12:22:47 EST 1993 Article: 12850 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!kth.se!lysator.liu.se!ceci From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Setting-out onions by the moon Keywords: moon lunar gravity onions alliums Message-ID: Date: 12 Jan 93 14:56:59 GMT References: <43344@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Sender: news@lysator.liu.se Organization: Lysator ACS at Linkoping University Lines: 24 cs161fcd@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Sean Maschue) writes: >Quick Question: >What is the proper phase of the moon to set out onion bulbs by? >Waning seems familiar to me, but I can't remember? Modern day people who like to do things by the moon, usually do things that involve seeding (literally or figuratively) by the waxing moon, harvesting on full moon and decaying/composting/pruning by the waning moon. If you see someone wearing a pentacle, they will know more. The pentacle is a symbol used by NeoPaganists in general. Check out alt.pagan for more information about moon-phases aswell as pentacles. >Also, while on the subject of onions, does anyone know about >this thing that the Guatamalan Mayan descendants do called >onion terracing? Sorry, no idea. --Ceci -- =====ceci@lysator.liu.se=========================================== "The map is not the territory." Alfred Korzybski =================================================================== From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!amara!wybo Tue Jan 12 12:23:59 EST 1993 Article: 12852 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!amara!wybo From: wybo@adi.com (Dave Wybo) Subject: plant database Message-ID: <1993Jan12.153233.21812@adi.com> Sender: news@adi.com Nntp-Posting-Host: halibut Organization: Applied Dynamics Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:32:33 GMT Lines: 53 To those of you that are interested, the only plant type database that I was able to find was a package called "sprout", which contains info pertaining to vegetable gardening. One of the respondents to my original post mentioned it, and later, I found it in one of the PC software catalogs. I have not found any public database on perennials/flowers/wildflowers. The Clearinghouse of the National Wildflower Research Center has quite an extensive native plant database that they maintain. One can request info about native plants in a given state, but they will send you only hardcopy. I asked when/if they might make the entire database available, and they said that they talk about it every so often, but its not likely to happen in the near future. Okay, so I want to create a CD-ROM with my database on it. I want to include the following data Genus Species Family Common Names Type (Perennial, Annual, Biennial) General description of Plant Description of Flower Picture of Flower Description of Leaf Description of Fruit Picture of Seed Pods Plant Height Plant Spacing Flowering Season Habitat - Soil Habitat - Sunlight Hardiness Zones Picture of Range Map Propagation Methods Ease of propagation Availability in U.S. Related Species Companion Plants Medicinal Plant Uses Additional Comments You will notice some references to pictures. I want this database to contain images. Now, which PC package will do this? Is this something that is appropriate for a MAC hypercard stack? or should I stick with an off-the-shelf RDMS? Any comments? Any other info you would like to see in this database? -- -- Dave Wybo Milford Wildflowers, P.O. Box 83, New Hudson, MI 48165-0083 (313) 685-7555 Reachable at: wybo@adi.com -- From samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsm!cbnewsl!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd Tue Jan 12 12:26:44 EST 1993 Article: 12854 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsm!cbnewsl!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Subject: Re: Cranberry bush Message-ID: <1993Jan12.170017.5108@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T References: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:00:17 GMT Lines: 18 Regarding cranberry bush, as the poster from Finland noted, you are probably talking about the vibernum commonly referred to as American high-bush cranberry. I have two in my yard and right now and they have a lot of showy red berries on them, which the birds eventually eat. The fruit does taste a lot like cranberries and is edible, but since each berry has a rather big seed, I don't think they will ever replace cranberries. I have seen them growing on the edges of woods, where they get pretty tall and rather rangy. Mine are supposed to be dwarf and compact, but they are already about 10' tall, and not very compact. Flowers are okay, and I think fall color is a nice yellow, but winter interest (red berries) is this shrub's forte. Dave Daulton From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!richter Tue Jan 12 22:58:23 EST 1993 Article: 12844 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!richter From: richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) Subject: Re: epazote Message-ID: Organization: UTCS Public Access References: <1993Jan12.000445.7782@lgc.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:11:59 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1993Jan12.000445.7782@lgc.com> jrm@lgc.com (John Moore) writes: >Does anybody know where I can get seed for some "epazote". > >It's an herb that looks like cilantro but tastes much different. > >The herb is used in tortilla soup, corn husk, chilaquiles, and the like. Isn't it great. I got to love it when I lived in Guatemala for a few months. It is also known as "American wormseed" because it was used as a vermifuge. Botanical name is _Chenopodium ambrosiodes_. We have seeds available: Packet/$1.25, 1g/$7, 10g/$29 (Canadian funds). -- Conrad Richter richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca Richters Herbs 71550.3411@compuserve.com Goodwood, ON L0C 1AO Canada Tel 416-640-6677 / Fax 416-640-6641 From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU!RCOOKE Tue Jan 12 22:58:46 EST 1993 Article: 12843 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU!RCOOKE From: rcooke@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (RON COOKE) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: epazote Message-ID: <1itfveINNcmi@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> Date: 12 Jan 93 04:03:58 GMT References: <1993Jan12.000445.7782@lgc.com> Reply-To: rcooke@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU Distribution: usa Organization: California State University, Chico Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: oavax.csuchico.edu In article <1993Jan12.000445.7782@lgc.com>, jrm@lgc.com (John Moore) writes: >Does anybody know where I can get seed for some "epazote". > >It's an herb that looks like cilantro but tastes much different. > >The herb is used in tortilla soup, corn husk, chilaquiles, and the like. > >Any info would be appreciated. >-- >*-------------------------------------------------------------* >* John R. Moore Landmark Graphics Corporation >* 15150 Memorial Drive Houston, TX 77079-4304 >* jmoore@lgc.com (713)-560-1080 Here are some sources: Horticultural Enterprises PO Box 810082 Dallas, TX 75381 Plants of the Southwest 3950 W.New York Drive Tucson, AZ 85745 Cat. $1.00 Richters Goodwood, Ontario Canada, LOC 1AO Cat. $2.50 Ron and Lucy Cooke ********************************************************** RON COOKE,CHEMISTRY DEPARTMENT CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY-CHICO CHICO, CA 95929-0210 RCOOKE@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!veritas!oleg Tue Jan 12 22:59:17 EST 1993 Article: 12845 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.gardens:12845 rec.aquaria:16524 sci.aquaria:2952 Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!veritas!oleg From: oleg@Veritas.COM (Oleg Kiselev) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria Subject: Re: pond underweater plants Message-ID: <1993Jan12.011941.22964@Veritas.COM> Date: 12 Jan 93 01:19:41 GMT References: <1993Jan3.191701.10898@cichlid.com> <93006.204916PQQ@psuvm.psu.edu> Reply-To: oleg@veritas.com (Oleg Kiselev) Organization: Palo Alto Killifish Loft Lines: 20 PQQ@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >aquatic, and 6 15cm long strands of milfoil in a 10 gal aquarium will Which one of the milfoils were you using? There are several species of them and the one I have tried have tried was a very fast grower (in full unfiltered sunlight), but insisted on the immersed rather than submersed growing habit. In fact, very few of its leaves were underwater. >plants need a decent light source. What do you consider "a decent light source"? I.e. watt or lumen per sq. ft., type of lighting, etc. A fast-growing ammonia consumer is perfect plant for an unfiltered tank and I have not been able to strike the balance bewteen the light requirements and the usability in a small tank: Java moss grows too slowly, Cabomba requires way too much light... -- Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian. Oleg Kiselev oleg@veritas.com VERITAS Software ...!{apple|uunet}!veritas!oleg From samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!klaava!phcu.helsinki.fi!aalto Tue Jan 12 22:59:31 EST 1993 Article: 12846 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!klaava!phcu.helsinki.fi!aalto From: aalto@phcu.helsinki.fi (Erkki '\\rkki' Aalto, University of Helsinki) Subject: Re: Cranberry bush Message-ID: <1993Jan12.083827.1@phcu.helsinki.fi> Lines: 24 Sender: news@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Uutis Ankka) Organization: University of Helsinki, Finland References: <1993Jan12.020321.27808@casbs.Stanford.EDU> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:38:27 GMT In article <1993Jan12.020321.27808@casbs.Stanford.EDU>, kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much) writes: > In article seeley@cerl.uiuc.edu (Joseph Seeley) writes: >>I'm looking for a screening plant (7-8 ft). A couple of places list >>a cranberry bush that looks promising -- right height (though I don't >>know how long it will take to get there), various colors during the >>year (white flowers, fall foliage), and edible berries. Since I don't >>need screening in the winter, this could work. What's the downside? >>Berries aren't that useful? Crops pretty small? Takes 20 years to >>reach full height? My edible landscaping book covers only the bog-type >>cranberry. > > To be very helpful, we need to know where you are, what kind of soil > you have, and your light conditions (full sun, shade, etc.). > Cranberries need dampness and acid soil. > Except that 'cranberry bush' is probably a species of Viburnum. It has acid red berries, but otherwise nothing to do with cranberries. It likes good alkaline soil and grows fast. I cannot comment the berries, my own specimen is still too small. Erkki Aalto Helsinki, Finland From samba!concert!gatech!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!kth.se!lysator.liu.se!ceci Tue Jan 12 23:00:02 EST 1993 Article: 12850 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!kth.se!lysator.liu.se!ceci From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Setting-out onions by the moon Keywords: moon lunar gravity onions alliums Message-ID: Date: 12 Jan 93 14:56:59 GMT References: <43344@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Sender: news@lysator.liu.se Organization: Lysator ACS at Linkoping University Lines: 24 cs161fcd@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Sean Maschue) writes: >Quick Question: >What is the proper phase of the moon to set out onion bulbs by? >Waning seems familiar to me, but I can't remember? Modern day people who like to do things by the moon, usually do things that involve seeding (literally or figuratively) by the waxing moon, harvesting on full moon and decaying/composting/pruning by the waning moon. If you see someone wearing a pentacle, they will know more. The pentacle is a symbol used by NeoPaganists in general. Check out alt.pagan for more information about moon-phases aswell as pentacles. >Also, while on the subject of onions, does anyone know about >this thing that the Guatamalan Mayan descendants do called >onion terracing? Sorry, no idea. --Ceci -- =====ceci@lysator.liu.se=========================================== "The map is not the territory." Alfred Korzybski =================================================================== From samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsm!cbnewsl!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd Tue Jan 12 23:00:42 EST 1993 Article: 12854 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsm!cbnewsl!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Subject: Re: Cranberry bush Message-ID: <1993Jan12.170017.5108@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T References: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:00:17 GMT Lines: 18 Regarding cranberry bush, as the poster from Finland noted, you are probably talking about the vibernum commonly referred to as American high-bush cranberry. I have two in my yard and right now and they have a lot of showy red berries on them, which the birds eventually eat. The fruit does taste a lot like cranberries and is edible, but since each berry has a rather big seed, I don't think they will ever replace cranberries. I have seen them growing on the edges of woods, where they get pretty tall and rather rangy. Mine are supposed to be dwarf and compact, but they are already about 10' tall, and not very compact. Flowers are okay, and I think fall color is a nice yellow, but winter interest (red berries) is this shrub's forte. Dave Daulton From samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!news.dell.com!milano!cobweb.mcc.com!breland Tue Jan 12 23:00:57 EST 1993 Article: 12855 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!news.dell.com!milano!cobweb.mcc.com!breland From: breland@cobweb.mcc.com (Mark A. Breland) Subject: Re: Setting-out onions by the moon Message-ID: <1993Jan12.162854.9785@mcc.com> Sender: news@mcc.com Reply-To: breland@cobweb.mcc.com Organization: MCC References: <43344@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:28:54 GMT Lines: 19 In article 43344@sdcc12.ucsd.edu, cs161fcd@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Sean Maschue) writes: > >Quick Question: > >What is the proper phase of the moon to set out onion bulbs by? >Waning seems familiar to me, but I can't remember? By old tradition (as documented in the Old Farmer's Almanac), a general rule of thumb is to plant top-bearing crops (tomatoes, peppers, etc) during a waxing moon, this includes both seeding and transplanting. Plant bottom-bearing crops (potatoes, onions, carrots, etc) during a waning moon. Above ground fruit in waxing, below ground fruit in waning. --- Mark A. Breland - Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation (MCC) Ada Fault Tolerance | voice: (512) 338-3509 3500 West Balcones Center Drive | FAX: (512) 338-3900 Austin, Texas 78759-6509 USA | internet: breland@mcc.com From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!rk30+ Tue Jan 12 23:01:45 EST 1993 Article: 12858 of rec.gardens Organization: Information Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!rk30+ Newsgroups: rec.gardens Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:26:22 -0500 From: Ruth Kline Subject: Re: Setting-out onions by the moon In-Reply-To: <43344@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> References: <43344@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Lines: 6 The old rule is that you plant root vegetables in the dark of the moon -- but as far as I know, that applies only to planting seeds. I don't think onion sets are particular about the moon phase, but it might be fun to experiment by planting half of them in the waning moon and half in the waxing moon. -- Ruth Kline, Carnegie Mellon University From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cl27111 Tue Jan 12 23:02:24 EST 1993 Article: 12862 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cl27111 From: cl27111@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey) Subject: Re: Cranberry bush References: Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:39:25 GMT Lines: 19 seeley@cerl.uiuc.edu (Joseph Seeley) writes: >I'm looking for a screening plant (7-8 ft). A couple of places list >a cranberry bush that looks promising -- right height (though I don't >know how long it will take to get there), various colors during the >year (white flowers, fall foliage), and edible berries. Since I don't >need screening in the winter, this could work. What's the downside? >Berries aren't that useful? Crops pretty small? Takes 20 years to >reach full height? My edible landscaping book covers only the bog-type >cranberry. What was probably listed is Viburnum trilobum, called the American cranberrybush viburnum. This is not the same plant that you get cranberry juice from (that's the bog version), but it is a nice landscaping plant, provided that it gets the right conditions. The soil needs to be well- drained, high in organic matter, and moist, or else it will tend to become scraggly and ungainly. Instead of planning on eating the berries, I would leave them on the plant; they sometimes will last through the entire winter... From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cl27111 Tue Jan 12 23:08:58 EST 1993 Article: 12865 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cl27111 From: cl27111@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey) Subject: Re: plant database References: <1993Jan12.153233.21812@adi.com> Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:44:49 GMT Lines: 13 Dave, hang on to your hat... If you can wait until May, I am planning on releasing my first version of the Plant Finder into the ShareWare market... It is setup to support any kind of database, with all of the information that you listed incorporated with some other goodies... Databases can be written by the user, or will be available pre-typed (wildflowers of NE US, trees, shrubs, grasses, etc.) I'm excited by this project, and the graphical computer environment I've created for it seems to be holding up... So, hopefully, it'll be out in May... Chris From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ct076 Tue Jan 12 23:11:08 EST 1993 Article: 12879 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ct076 From: ct076@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael T. Loos) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Currants and White Pines????? Date: 13 Jan 1993 02:51:07 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 29 Message-ID: <1j002rINN4ne@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu White pine blister rust exists in two phases of its life cycle on eastern and western white pine and on sugar pine in California. In opposite stages of its life it exists on currant, flowering currant and gooseberry The western white sugar and whitebark pines are even more susceptible to the blister rust than white pine, but in either case, robust dominant trees are more severely attacked, with frail individuals lightly infected. ... Of the Ribes species black currant is the most susceptible and dangerous. Cultivated red currants are somewhat resistant, causing a minimum (OOOPS) of pine infection; Viking and Red Dutch varieties are practically immune. Wild gooseberries and skunk currant are highly susceptible in the Northeast and so are western black currant, stink currant and red flowering currant. The greater susceptibility of Ribes species the more spores are produced to inoculate pines, with proportionate damage. This is copied nearly verbatim from the Westcott Plant Disease Handbook. I would suggest that if you already have the trees, DON"T take the chance of infecting them. I told my brother the same thing. (My edition of the Westcott is third ed., has anyone got any different information on the subject?) Michael Loos These view are my own and all that jazz. ct076@cleveland.freenet.edu From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 Thu Jan 14 23:26:41 EST 1993 Article: 12953 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Gobo/burdock Date: 15 Jan 1993 01:38:43 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1j54j3INNpu9@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu Burdock, better known as gobo to vegetarians and lovers of Japanese food, tastes something like salsify(oyster plant). If you like salsify, you might like gobo. ( I thought gobo was a character on Fraggle Rock:-) Anyway, the young leaves are edible as well as the roots. The cultivars have bigger roots than the wild variety. The leaves are a salad green or spinach substitute; the root is cooked as potherb with carrots, turnips or onions. I don't like it myself, but I have friends who think it's just great; to each his or her own. J. Del Col -- Jeff Del Col * DECONSTRUCTION--- the critical method invented A-B College * by Procrustes Philippi, WV * * From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!icd.ab.com!iccgcc.decnet.ab.com!boldtp Thu Jan 14 23:27:21 EST 1993 Article: 12954 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!icd.ab.com!iccgcc.decnet.ab.com!boldtp From: boldtp@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (If ya think long, you'll think wrong.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Need alternative to chemical pesticides Message-ID: <1993Jan11.115214.9550@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> Date: 11 Jan 93 11:52:14 EST References: <1992Dec28.220207.12425@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Followup-To: rec.gardens Distribution: usa Lines: 17 In article , karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) writes: > > Part of controlling aphids is controlling the ants which carry > them onto the plants and tend them (Q: is this true for all aphids or just > some varieties?). I haven't found the ideal solution, but cayenne barriers > or sprays and similar techniques can help discourage ants. Controlling the ants that PROTECT the aphids needs to be your first priority. Solution: Mix Borax and Honey. Leave around base of plant. The Honey is the lure, the Borax does the nasty work. It's not the lady bug's so much as their larve ( known as Aphid lions ) that will quickly clean the plants up. Insectacidle (sp?) soap also works on aphids, but I don't think it's the same as Ivory soap. From samba!concert!gatech!news.byu.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews!admin!clarke Fri Jan 15 20:26:15 EST 1993 Article: 12969 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!news.byu.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews!admin!clarke From: clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke) Subject: Re: Landscaping software Sender: news@watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster) Message-ID: <1993Jan15.222651.4440@watson.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 22:26:51 GMT Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM References: <1993Jan15.191325.12329@bnlux1.bnl.gov> Nntp-Posting-Host: lethe.watson.ibm.com Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center Lines: 24 In article <1993Jan15.191325.12329@bnlux1.bnl.gov>, nagy@bnlux1.bnl.gov (John Nagy) writes: |> A friend is looking for pointers to commercial, shareware, or public |> domain software for preparing landscaping drawings to scale (buildings, |> other structures, gardens, trees, etc.). Any help would be appreciated, |> including suggestion of a more appropriate news group. "The Home Series" by Autodesk has a landscape module in it. I bought this several weeks ago and am happy with it so far. It's about $39 dollars versus $495 for generic cadd + $495 for the landscape module. Both are made by the same company (Autodesk). Output can be on a LaserJet series printer, that's what I'm using. Needs a floppy, 640kb, PC/DOS(3.0 or more), hard disk, video display of 640x200 or better and a mouse. Can use 2MB of expanded memory, VGA or EGA and a math coprocessor. After figuring out how to convert surveyors angles ( North 30 degrees east == 60 degrees ) into a 0-360 degree equivalent, I put my own 1.1+ acre survey into the program. When I finished entering all the stuff, I was about 0.1 inch off ... ( I have two very wavey boundaries, a stone wall and a stream ). I'm happy with it so far. Next step is to buy a copy of our towns contour map. They have just finished (or are finishing) a map with two foot contour intervals. Landscape has facilities for this too. From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!ceylon!news.tufts.edu!pearl.tufts.edu!gellmore Sat Jan 16 10:46:13 EST 1993 Article: 12948 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!ceylon!news.tufts.edu!pearl.tufts.edu!gellmore From: gellmore@pearl.tufts.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: epazote Message-ID: <1993Jan14.155316.1@pearl.tufts.edu> Date: 14 Jan 93 20:53:16 GMT Sender: news@news.tufts.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA Lines: 16 Epazote seeds can be purchased from Nichols garden supply in Oregon. They are not easy to germinate, but since there are so many of them, some invariably make it. Yes, the plant is weedy (fast growing). It is in the same genus (Chenopodium) as Lambs Quarter, or Pigweed. BUT if you yank Epazote up, it won't return from root buds. The strange rust, if it was dark red (not brown) on the leaves, is due to a plant virus, not a rust fungus. Chenopodium is often infected by that virus which starts as red spots on leaves, then can produce entire red sectors on the leaves. I have found the largest Epazote plants around local horse stables. Good source of leaves for summer bean dishes, not to mention seeds to spread around my garden. From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!ames!olivea!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Mon Jan 18 21:36:16 EST 1993 Article: 12975 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!ames!olivea!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Question on deer proof plants Message-ID: <82.2b574256@axolotl> Date: 13 Jan 93 19:40:58 GMT Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Followup-To: rec.gardens Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Lines: 98 rahimi@vax.sonoma.edu writes: > I'd appreciate any info on the types of flowers, shrubs and trees > that are of no interest to deer. Also about deer proof bulbs? Deer-Resistant Plants FLOWERS Achillea lanulosa Native White Yarrow Achillea filipendulina var. Yarrow species Agastache cana Double Bubble Mint Berlandiera lyrata Chocolate Flower Cerastium tomentosum Snow-in-Summer Chrysanthemum leucanthemum Ox-eye Daisy Chrysopsis spp. Golden Aster species Coreopsis spp. Coreopsis species Dalea purpurea Purple Prairie Clover Delphinium spp. Delphinium species Digitalis lanata Grecian Foxglove Echinacea purpurea Purple Coneflower Euphorbia myrsinites Myrtle Euphorbia Gaillardia aristata Gaillardia, Indian Blanket Geranium spp. Hardy Geraniums Gutierrezia sarothrae Snakeweed Gypsophila spp. Baby's Breath Helianthus maximiliani Maximilian's Sunflower Helleborus spp. Hellebore species Hemerocallis spp. Daylilies Iris spp. Iris species Kniphofia spp. Poker Plant species Liatris punctata Gayfeathers Melampodium leucanthum Blackfoot Daisy Mentha spp. Mint species Mertensia spp. Mertensia species Mirabilis multiflora Wild Four O'Clock Monarda fistulosa Wild Monarda Narcissus spp. Daffodils Oenothera missouriensis Ozark Evening Primrose Origanum spp. Oregano species Origanum spp Marjoram species Paeonia spp. Peony species Penstemon spp.* Penstemon species Perovskia atriplicifolia Russian Sage Phlox subulata Creeping Phlox Psilostrophe tagetina Paperflower Ratibida columnifera Mexican Hat Coneflower Rheum spp. Rhubarb species Rudbeckia hirta Gloriosa Daisy Salvia officinalis Cooking Sage Santolina chamaecyparissus Santolina Senecio longiglobus Treadleaf Groundsel Senecio spartioides Broom Groundsel Silene laciniata Indian Pink Solidago spp. Goldenrod species Sphaeralcea spp. Globemallow species Thermopsis spp. Goldenbanner species Thymus spp. Thyme species Viguiera multiflora Showy Goldeneye Zauschneria spp. Zauschneria species Zinnia grandiflora Prairie Zinnia *NOTE: penstemons vary in palatability to deer SHRUBS Amorpha canescens Leadplant Amorpha nana Dwarf Leadplant Artemisia abrotanum Southernwood Artemisia tridentata Big Western Sage Atriplex canescens Four-wing Saltbush Caryopteris x clandonensis Bluemist Spirea Cercocarpus ledifolius Curlleaf Mountain Mahogany Chamaebatiaria millefolium Fernbush Chrysothamnus spp. Rabbitbrush species Cotoneaster spp. Cotoneaster species Cowania mexicana Cowania Euonymus alata Burning Bush Fallugia paradoxa Apache Plume Mahonia repens Creeping Mahonia Pinus edulis Pinon Pine Potentilla fruticosa Potentilla Spiraea spp. Spiraea species -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The above list of deer-resistant flowers & shrubs is from _The Xeriscape Flower Gardener: A Waterwise Guide for the Rocky Mountain Region_ by Jim Knopf (ISBN 1-55566-077-0), pages 146 & 147. As this book addresses the plants that can be grown in the states of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, and portions of Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Kansas -- it doesn't list all the deer-resistant plants. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Mon Jan 18 21:38:18 EST 1993 Article: 12976 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: HELP !! Mail-Order Info Message-ID: <55.2b5696ff@axolotl> Date: 14 Jan 93 20:00:06 GMT Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Followup-To: rec.gardens Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Lines: 28 mortiz@hpprdeb.prd.hp.com (Miguel Ortiz) writes: > Does anyone knows of mail-order houses (address and phone) that sells > gardening and landscaping supplies? I am more interested in getting > irri- > gation materials (valves, sprinklers, drip-irrigation,etc) and related > stuff. UPCO IRRIGATION [CAT - FREE] P.O. Box 506 Bouse, AZ 85325 -------- RAINDRIP, INC [CAT - FREE] P.O. Box 2173 21305 Itasca Street Chatsworth, CA 91313-2173 -------- THE URBAN FARMER STORE [CAT - $1.00.] 2833 Vicente Street [Deductible] San Francisco, CA 94116 -------- FLORIST PRODUCTS [CAT - FREE] 2242 North Palmer Drive Schaumburg, IL 60173 -------- GARDENER'S SUPPLY COMPANY [CAT - FREE] 128 Intervale Road Burlington, VT 05401 From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Mon Jan 18 21:39:52 EST 1993 Article: 12979 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Tomato varieties Message-ID: <1993Jan18.123330.9950@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 18 Jan 93 12:33:30 -0600 References: Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 12 In article , srsmart@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (susan r. smart) writes: > Last summer, after I had already planted the typical tomato varieties > available in nurseries, I read here how boring I was. Rutgers is an old favorite I rarely see in the nurseries these days, though seed is commonly available. I grow a lot of Italian paste tomatoes-- the commercial cultivar I like best is San Marzano, but I also have some home- saved seed from plants brought here from Italy in the 1920's. Personally, I like the meatier, drier flesh of the paste tomatoes-- and they don't "sog up" bacon and tomato sandwiches so badly! Kay From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv Mon Jan 18 21:40:15 EST 1993 Article: 12980 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Subject: Re: Tomato varieties Message-ID: <1993Jan18.141823.16921@walter.cray.com> Lines: 23 Sender: gwv@eastrg2 (George Vandenberghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: eastrg2-gate.cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: <1993Jan18.123330.9950@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 18 Jan 93 14:18:22 CST I find the combination of Early Girl for earliness and Better Boy for flavor difficult to beat here in the Mid Atlantic region (Wash DC). I also grow sweet 100 as my cherry tomato, and the Burpee Pixie variety for pots. One novelty you might want to try is growing a few of the varieties bred for Central and Northwest Canada. These are available through Stokes Seed and the really early ones grow little 15" tall and 2' wide bushes which set very early and lie on or close to the ground. They are determinate and I have heard they are VERY susceptible to Early Blight; the Sub-Arctic Maxi I tried was susceptible and died within a few weeks of the onset of humid summer weather. But they make a concentrated early crop before the big ones are ready. They do not thrive in our combination of shorter days and hotter weather but they are very good for lots of early red billiard ball sized tomatoes ready before summer heat really becomes entrenched. I never did trials comparing them with say "Pixie" a very early U.S. variety but they looked to me to be extremely early, late June in Central New Jersey in a cold spring. From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!pacbell.com!UB.com!quack!pharvey Tue Jan 19 23:17:00 EST 1993 Article: 13004 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!pacbell.com!UB.com!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: PawPaws Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: <1993Jan16.165003.26137@math.ucla.edu> Date: 19 Jan 1993 18:54:30 UTC Lines: 32 In article <1993Jan16.165003.26137@math.ucla.edu> ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes: >David had also expressed desire to get hold of a superior variety belonging >to a friend (I meant to say SCION of a superior variety) Accordcing to this >same article, PawPaws send out root suckers. Perhaps David's friend/ >acquaintance would be happy to part with a few of these, he could pot >them up and plant the healthiest. Root suckers of Pawpaw are difficult to transplant and are the origin of the belief that Pawpaws are difficult to transplant. The typical wild patch of pawpaws would be one seedling mother and hundreds of root suckers. It's a strange plant in the wild. >What little knowledge I have of PawPaws comes from articles out of >fruit or general horticulture magazines. If anyone has first-person >knowledge, please post. (I'd plant some seeds, but I figured that anything >that thrives in Indiana and places like that isn't going to like the >low-winter chill climate of So. Cal. If I am wrong, if anyone out there >in So. Cal is growing and fruiting PawPaws, please post or email me. I believe I remember either hearing or reading of a public garden in Santa Barbara that was growing several cultivars for ten years with no flowering resulting. But that location had no winter chill to speak of, avg. winter lows above 45oF, and cool maritime summers with little heat accumulation, so it's hard to say if it was the lack of chill or lack of a definite summer. I've never seen or heard any info on Pawpaw chill requirement. Since they are found native in USDA Eastern zone 8, they can't require a lot of chill, if any, unless there are northern and southern varieties with high and low chill requirements respectively. Pawpaw do require some summer heat accumulation as they fail to flower in the Eastern Maritimes which have more than sufficient chill but cool maritime summers. From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!soave!jane Tue Jan 19 23:20:49 EST 1993 Article: 13006 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!soave!jane From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Own-root roses Message-ID: <8884.9063@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 19 Jan 93 00:56:02 GMT References: <1993Jan13.023729.14059@microsoft.com> Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA Lines: 41 >How long does it take rose bushes (in particular, David Austin's >English Roses) growing on their own roots to reach blooming size? > >I've received a wonderful catalog from Heirloom Garden Roses, >of Oregon. They sell first-year own-root roses. > I have ordered from Heirloom Old Garden Roses, and have had very good luck with their own-root roses. The roses have, by the end of the first year, generally equaled the size and blooming of the grafted roses I have purchased from other sources. One of my Austin roses, Charles Austin, grew to 5 feet in its first year! (I might add the caveat that I plant in beds with LOTS of rotted manure dug in, and feed every two months with "Roots for Roses.) With the once-blooming old roses, you'll probably NOT get blossoms the first year. (I didn't.) With grafted roses, you'll get maybe a couple, if luck is with you (my Alchemyst was a grafted rose, but still didn't flower until its third year). This is because the once-bloomers flower on old wood, and there *is no* old wood. On the grafted roses, the blossoms have a possible chance of coming out of the grafted canes, which are usually a year or two old, and larger than the own-root rose. The repeat blooming roses *will* flower the first year, as a general rule, even without putting on a lot of top growth. "Wife of Bath" went straight into trusses of flowers, then grew into a bush. Mind you, this rose was only a foot high when it started flowering. Good and obliging plants, the Austin roses. I've found that the own-roots roses are generally healthier (no rose mosaic, which is spread via infected rootstock!) and sturdier. Be aware that some of the older varieties sucker profusely, though, so you may end up with a huge cluster of canes (all true to the parent, though). This may be either an advantage or disadvantage, depending on how you look at it. -- Jilara [jane@swdc.stratus.com] "Every now and then, a big rock falls out of the sky, and everyone has a *very bad* day." --from the PBS "Dinosaurs" special. From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!cornell!uw-beaver!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!janus.arc.ab.ca!rhea.arc.ab.ca!thacker Thu Jan 21 19:16:12 EST 1993 Article: 12987 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!cornell!uw-beaver!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!janus.arc.ab.ca!rhea.arc.ab.ca!thacker Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Everbearing Strawberry Yield Message-ID: <1993Jan18.171520.1@rhea.arc.ab.ca> From: thacker@rhea.arc.ab.ca Date: 18 Jan 93 17:15:20 MDT References: Organization: Alberta Research Council Nntp-Posting-Host: rhea.arc.ab.ca Lines: 53 In article , psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes: > I would like to know what a good-yielding variety of everbearing will > give from one plant over an entire season (assuming normal conditions > for Eastern Ontario, near Ottawa). > > If that is too difficult, I'd be happy with a best guess or an > estimate of, say, a 20 foot mattted row of a specified width. In Edmonton I grow Ogalla (Ogalalla?). Two years ago I put in 12 plants in a 10 ft by 10 ft. bed, with plants spaced about 2 ft apart in the row, 2.5 ft between rows. Around August the plants began to produce some berries and millions of daughter plants. The yield that year was only from the original 12 plants, amounting to about 0.5 litre per week at first, increasing to 1-2 litre per week by October. In mid-October, 27 cm of snow buried the plants, but when it melted away a week later another couple of litres had ripened (though taste was getting a bit bland). The daughter plants got semi-established to form a dense matted row at least a foot across. Plants were mulched with several inches of straw for the winter. In the next year the "June" yield (July here) was very good - 30 litres of berries (about 8 U.S. gallons). The biggest berries were on the outside of the row, the ones inside were pretty small and a pain to pick (I thinned the rows to about 8 inches across or so this fall). The plants began to produce a small crop of berries in August, but an early killing frost in August ruined the fall crop. I think it is fairly typical of "everbearing" to produce a heavy "June" crop, then a lighter crop extended into the fall. I think it is "day- neutral" types that are more even in berry production through the year, but they aren't reliably hardy here (I think they might be hardy in Ottawa). > I realize yield is less than June-bearing, but there is heavy > competition for that market in my area. Furthermore, a late frost > means disaster if one only has ever-bearing. The late frost problem can be controlled by leaving the straw mulch on for a while in the spring. Here, the early spring weather can fluctuate from summerlike to winterlike so you don't want the plants to start growing too early and then get caught by a killing frost when in bloom. I forget when I took off my mulch (I have it written down at home I think, if you're interested), but I would guess about mid-April. (Early April had temps as high as the low 20s C (low 70s F) and as low as -16C (3F). Mid-April is probably good for Ottawa also (I use to live there so I know the weather). > Thanks in advance BTW, some other posters had asked about sun or shade - definitely full sun, and someone had suggested that freezing temperatures could be fatal - I find the plants very hardy when they are in a dormant state - it can approach -40 (F or C) here in winter, although heavy frosts can of course take their toll on berries and blossoms on growing plants. From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!caen!batcomputer!ghost.dsi.unimi.it!newsserver.di.unipi.it!mac-resta.iei.pi.cnr.it!resta Thu Jan 21 19:18:02 EST 1993 Article: 12993 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!caen!batcomputer!ghost.dsi.unimi.it!newsserver.di.unipi.it!mac-resta.iei.pi.cnr.it!resta From: Giovanni Resta Subject: Re: Chiltern seeds catalogue review Message-ID: <1993Jan18.163028.272@cli.di.unipi.it> X-Xxmessage-Id: X-Xxdate: Mon, 18 Jan 93 18: 04:13 GMT Sender: netnews@cli.di.unipi.it (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: mac-resta.iei.pi.cnr.it Organization: IEI-CNR Italy X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13 References: Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 16:30:28 GMT Lines: 94 In article Cecilia Henningsson, ceci@lysator.liu.se writes: >Address: Chiltern Seeds > Bortree Stile > Ulverston > Cumbria LA12 7PB > ENGLAND >>Catalogue free, accept credit cards, ship overseas, 270 pages, >systematically-alphabetically ordered, no illustrations. [...............DELETED STUFF..........................] >I would be very happy to hear other people's experience with Chiltern, >as I intend to order from them. (I don't mind them selling my name, if >I get more catalogues, I'm all the happier.) >>--Ceci In the Spring of 1991 I found the address of Chiltern Seeds in an italian gardening magazine. I send them a mail like the following : "Dear Sirs, I have heard that you sell seeds. If this is correct, and if you can send them also to Italy, I want to know how can I buy your catalog, if you have one. ...." They never reply to my mail. They simply send me a (free) copy of their catalog. When I received it I was near to weep for joy. I think that one catalog can contain about 4000-5000 entries. One particular that I really appreciated is the systematic use of latin names, since I really dislike the use of common names. (Nothing personal, but they simply make information exchange harder. When someone, in rec.garden, says "Please help me with the plant Bugabuga" or "My favourite is Gaoler Lily", or something like that, I take my english dictionary and I throw it to the wall.) I belive that reading the catalog can give several hours of joy to every gardener. The only (comic) drawback I found is the following, that can be very subjective and also may depend in part from the fact that english is not my natural language : The catalog author is very convincing in describing as lovely all the thousands of entries. So after the first reading one signs with "IMHT" (I Must Have This) the 70% of the plants listed. Moreover a part of them do not look in reality as one imagines after the reading of the description, which is truly, yes, but sometimes so captivating that one can plant a daisy (a common name :-) thinking that something similar to an orchid has to sprout. I don't know if now there are fees for the catalog, since their policy is : if you buy something this year you automatically get a free catalog next year (without ask for it). And I bought ..... Chiltern normally sends the catalog at the end of the year, and some of my italian friend have received the 1993 catalog last week. I'm already waiting (since italian postal service are a shame) and getting frowning .... . Another particular (I refer always to 1991 and 1992 catalogs) is that one has to make two lists : the main seed list and a list of replacements. If they have to choose something in this second list they always choose the packets with prices higher than those of sold out packets. I'm not capable to say if their delivery service is fast or not, because italian postal service is randomized: sooner or later (i.e. in this century or in the next) you, with great probability (1/2), will receive what you are waiting for. I am satisfied of the overall service and also of the quality of the seeds. They sprout. I tried plants from all the continents. When they failed to germinate I often discover that I have made some mistakes in heating or watering or in the kind of soil used. Germination, viability and dormancy are often over human comprehension. Example: I have bougth a Lottery Misture Packet (of annuals). It is composed of absolutely anonymous seeds ranging from very common to what-is-this?. I planted some of them (the largest seeds) in pots and I have taken care of them as sons. I throw away the rest of the packet in an unattended corner of my garden. Of course nothing happens in the pots, but I found in that corner some never-seen flowers. In general they warning if the seed is dispatched from a refrigerated store and has to be planted immediately. Sometimes they warning that the growing of certaing plants (for example certain Cactaceae) is very slow, or that certain plant are not easy to germinate or to coltivate. They add a symbol that denote that certain plants are bulbous, and in general this means that they can take several years to reach the flowering size also if they are herbaceous. When they dispatch the packets they add a leaflet with some general planting direction. In some cases, when the plant is difficult (or rare or expensive) they add also dedicated directions. One can also decide to send some seeds or a bonus to a friend as BirthDay gift, specifing to Chiltern when to dispatch the present. They don't sell my name. I don't know if they sell the GB customers names. Ok. I have only to add that I don't work for Chiltern Seeds. (Of course, if Mr. Chiltern is listening, I can always accept some packets with his compliments :-) Giovanni From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cl27111 Thu Jan 21 19:24:38 EST 1993 Article: 13027 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cl27111 From: cl27111@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey) Subject: Re: Question on deer proof plants References: <1993Jan8.162727.1@vax.sonoma.edu> <8852.16708@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 06:45:30 GMT Lines: 41 Here's a list of plants that deer don't like that I posted a while back: Acanthus Kniphofia Aconitum Leucojum Agave Lirioe Allium Lychnis coronaria Amaryllis Melianthus Artemisia Melissa Arum Melittis Arundo Mentha Astilbe Mirabilis Campanula Myosotis Carex Nepeta Centaurea Origanum Ceratostigma Paeonia Chrysanthemum maximum Papaver Cortaderia Phormium Crinum Polygonatum Crocosmia Potentilla Dicentra Pulmonaria Digitalis Romneya Epimedium Rudbeckia Euphorbia Saliva Ferns Satureja Festuca glauca Scabiosa Filipendula Sisyrinchium Gaillardia Tellima Geranium Thalictrum Gerbera Tiarella Gunnera Trillium Helianthus Veratrum Helichrysum Vinca Hosta Iris Hope it helps! Chris Christopher Lindsey -- Dept. of Landscape Architecture, Univ. of Illinois From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!mcdphx!hlm Thu Jan 21 19:26:53 EST 1993 Article: 13037 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!mcdchg!mcdphx!hlm From: hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com (Heather Magill) Subject: Landtech products followup Message-ID: <1993Jan21.004040.11747@phx.mcd.mot.com> Keywords: organic products? Sender: Heather Magill Nntp-Posting-Host: cretan.phx.mcd.mot.com Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az. Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 00:40:40 GMT Lines: 51 Hi everyone. Well, the salesman was true to his word and sent me some information on the landtech products. Here's a quickie summary for those interested parties. Product Derived From -------------------- ------------------------------------ BioOrganic Fertilizer Chicken manure and gypsum. General Purpose Soil Activator rock phosphate, Irish peat moss, chick manure, silica sand, sulfate of potash, gypsum and EDDHA chelate. Activated Planting Medium same as General Purpose Soil Activator but with more peat moss :-( Activated Claybreaker Rock phosphate, silica pumice sand, chicken manure, sulfate of potash, EDDHA chelate Rx Host Spot Soil Treatment Irish peat moss :-(, pumice sand, General Purpse Soil Activator. Hydroblend Soil rock phosphate, Irish peat moss :-( chicken manure, sulfate of potash, gypsum, and EDDHA Chelate. Activated Iron Plus Concentrate iron mine tailings, chicken manure, gypsum, urea, and Irish peat moss. :-( Too bad they have to use peat moss. Could anyone explain what EDDHA Chelate is? I couldn't find it in my reference books. As far as the Activated Iron Plus containing concentrate iron mine tailings, I always thought arsenic and other nasties were often concentrated in mine tailings? Since I couldn't get any manure from my neighbors I think I am going to buy a couple of bags of the BioOrganic (3.99 / 40 lb bag) but definitely not any of the others. No need to encourage the plundering of peatbog biomes. If anyone wants to hear the marketing hype (like what absolutely fantastic things it will do) or application rates etc. send me email. Have a good day or good evening or ...... Heather Magill -- hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!bae Thu Jan 21 23:10:25 EST 1993 Article: 12943 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: altering soil pH Message-ID: Organization: UTCS Public Access Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 20:22:51 GMT Lines: 49 In article <1993Jan12.103827.10117@ac.dal.ca> misty@ac.dal.ca writes: >Is there anyone out there who can direct me to literature pertain- >ing to altering soil pH levels - i.e. what can I add to increase >or decrease soil pH for my plants? If so, then can they also >tell me if the literature contains any information as to whether >it is better to add the substance directly to the soil, or >should it be diluted and added to the soil via watering? Most good gardening books that have a chapter on soil will discuss liming and other pH adjustments. See if your public library has some - most of the books on organic methods have good information. Here are some general rules: Lime (calcium carbonate or crushed limestone or dolomite) is what is usually used to raise pH (to make soil less acid), although similar quantities of wood ashes will have the same effect. Don't use wood ashes from painted or other treated wood, as you may introduce toxic heavy metals to your garden (old paints often contained lead, mercury or cadmium, and modern wood preservative may contain chromium and arsenic). The method is to mix the material into the top 6-12" of the soil. It's best to do this in the fall or early spring, and depending on the material you use, it will take effect over the following weeks or months. You should first test your soil to determine what is necessary. You can get a kit that will do 10 tests for about $5. These kits usually come with instructions and a table of how much lime is necessary to raise pH how far in various types of soil, or you can find this information in some of the books mentioned above. pH can vary with the season (level of microbial activity), so check at the same time each year. If you need to change the pH more than 1 unit, many books advise that you do it over two or more years, to allow the soil microbes to adjust. In soil with good structure and plenty of organic matter, pH isn't as important, and most plants will do quite well even outside the 6 to 8 range. Organic matter will also act as a buffer to bring pH closer to neutral. To lower pH, you can use sulfur or large amounts of peat moss. This is the method people use for acid-loving plants like azaleas and blueberries. If you growing house plants or other potted plants, many books have formulas for potting soils with the right pH for particular types of plant, which is generally set by the amount of peat moss and lime in the blend. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!drmax Sat Jan 23 20:36:10 EST 1993 Article: 13106 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!drmax From: drmax@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marianna Max) Subject: Re: Clematis rehderiana Message-ID: <1993Jan23.225526.13097@news.acns.nwu.edu> Sender: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) Nntp-Posting-Host: unseen1.acns.nwu.edu Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois. References: <24.2b5e8100@axolotl> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:55:26 GMT Lines: 31 In article <24.2b5e8100@axolotl> bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org writes: >lienhard@daydreamer.metaphor.com (Steve Lienhard) writes: > > > Does anyone know of a source (plants or seeds) for the species clematis, > > Clematis rehderiana? In Stephen Lacy's book 'Scent in your Garden' it > > is described as the "most desirable of all clematis." > >In the 1992-93 catalog from THE FRAGRANT PATH (P.O. Box 328, Fort Calhoun, >Nebraska 68023, USA), eight varieties of fragrant Clematis species are >listed. They are Clematis crispa, C. macropetala, C. orientalis, C. >paniculata, C. pitcheri, C. recta purpurea, C. tangutica. and C. >viticella. Listed under ALTERNATIVES is Clematis texensis. > >You might contact the proprietor and inquire as to the availability of >Clematis rehderiana. > >You also might have luck by contacting the following> > > ARTHUR H. STEFFEN, INC. [CAT - $2] > P.O. Box 184 [MIN. ORD. $30] > 1259 Fairport Road > Fairport, NY 14450 > Is this the same critter that is generically called Evergreen Clematis? This one has a simple white flower that smells wonderful and keeps its leaves all year so it looks pretty decent even when it isn't in bloom. It also grows pretty quickly if my memory serves me. Max From samba!sunSITE!london Tue Jan 26 01:22:18 EST 1993 Article: 13125 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!sunSITE!london From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Subject: Re: Tell me all you know... Message-ID: <1993Jan25.214323.21804@samba.oit.unc.edu> Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill References: <1993Jan25.154202.11567@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:43:23 GMT In article <1993Jan25.154202.11567@cbfsb.cb.att.com> djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) writes: >One of the parks's staff members recently asked me how they might go about >using the park's PC (used to print the volunteer newsletters, to >keep track of volunteer hours, etc.) to access gardening bulletin boards, >such as rec.gardens. Buy a U.S. Robotics or a Zyxel external 9600baud V32bis FAXModem (about $350 or less by mail order), attach it to your PC and call: 1-919-9629911 9629921 9629931 9629941 in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, U.S.A. for free access to LaUNChpad (an experimental BBS operated at the University of North Carolina). With registration (just fill out a simple form and smail it back to the administrator) you get read/write access to Usenet newsgroups and Internet E-mail; without registration you get read only access to newsgroups. Other features and services are available there such as WAIS and access to library card catalogues. This is a good option if you can afford the long distance telco charges. Other options include many other dial-up public-access Internet sites, some free, some not: NYX-public access (Denver), a system in Seattle, Wash., Cleveland Freenet (and other Freenets), DELPHI. Data areas maintained here at sunSITE.unc.edu and WAIS-searchable from LaUNChpad are: FTP directories: ftp sunsite.unc.edu pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture /nc_botanical_garden /agronomy /nc_cooperative_extension /ncat-attra /national_agricultural_library You might also enjoy the alt.sustainable.agriculture newsgroup. Let me know if you need any more information. Lawrence london@sunsite.unc.edu From samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!news.tufts.edu!pearl.tufts.edu!gellmore Tue Jan 26 01:24:41 EST 1993 Article: 13129 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!news.tufts.edu!pearl.tufts.edu!gellmore From: gellmore@pearl.tufts.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: RE: Lilac pruning Message-ID: <1993Jan25.142358.1@pearl.tufts.edu> Date: 25 Jan 93 19:23:58 GMT Sender: news@news.tufts.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA Lines: 35 Lilacs sprout freely from suckers, so they CAN be mowed to the ground, but that is going to look terrible. Neglected Lilacs not only get too tall to see any flowers, but they also sprout so many whip-like suckers that there is little air and light on the inside of the shrub to support balanced plant growth. To prune (YES, winter is dormant season, get it done before March!), saw EVERY thing down EXCEPT 4 or 5 main trunks. That will get rid of the excessive bushiness. Then on the remaining 4-5 main trunks, if growth is too high, cut off the top on third. Yep, it'll look like a flat top, but flowers will bloom from branches that begin to form this Spring. Professionals keep those lilac shrubs low enough (lower than 10 feet) to give their owners the chance to see the flowers. I keep mine at about feet. Granted, when you mow off the top of your tree-like lilacs, you are going to feel as though a mistake has been made. Trust me. If not, try pruning one, and leave the others go. See which you prefer after a year of two. The stubs will look pale now, but will darken with age. If you want, spray some grey paint on the fresh cut, but its for your eyes, not the plant. Open wood is better than any efforts to cover it. Note that lilacs, like many woody plants, bloom heavy on ALTERNATE years. Finally, what about cutting off wilted flowers to improve growth? Its not worth the effort, provided you fertilize the plant a bit in the spring. and fall. The idea is to cut off wilted flowers that are on their way to making seeds, thereby saving resources that the plant would have put into those seeds. Fact is, that seeds are made within 6 weeks of flowering, and if you don't get the old flowers off within 3 weeks of flowering, you will have lost any marginal advantage that might have been gained. My experience is that the garden keeps me WAY too busy at Lilac flowering time, for me to snip off spent flowers. But maybe I'm not devoted enough... Good luck, and cut, cut, cut. From samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a2915 Tue Jan 26 01:25:27 EST 1993 Article: 13133 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a2915 From: Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code) Subject: Canadian catalogues - list Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:19:52 GMT Message-ID: <20033@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Lines: 161 WHERE YOU CAN WRITE FOR CANADIAN SEEDS Here are some general-interest B.C. and other Canadian company addresses. Unless otherwise indicated, the catalogues are free. --------------------- Territorial Seeds (Canada Ltd) P.O. Box 462254 Station G Vancouver, BC V6R 4G5 A regional catalogue listing vegetables, herbs and flowers appropriate to our coastal growing conditions. Detailed cultural directions geared to the west coast climate, with the emphasis on producing vegetables without pesticides. ("We all have favourite seed catalogues, but without doubt for West Coast gardeners, Territorial Seeds is the best. Not only are this company's seeds especially selected for our climate, but the catalogue is full of useful information on how to plan and sow for a year-round vegetable harvest." - David Tarrant, Vancouver Sun, Dec 28/91. --------------------- The Butchart Gardens P.O. Box 4010 Station A Victoria, BC V8X 3X4 Catalogue $1.00, refundable with first order. Fine selection of annual and perennial flower seed at reasonable prices. Good source for old-fashioned varieties. --------------------- Pacific Northwest Seed P.O. Box 460 Vernon, BC V1T 6M4 Catalogue $1.00. Excellent selection of flowers and vegetables. Useful growing instructions for coastal as well as interior conditions. Best coastal varieties are indicated. --------------------- Salt Spring Seeds P.O. Box 33 Ganges, BC VOS 1E0 Catalogue $2.00. High-protein seeds - dozens of bean varieties, quinoa, amaranth. All grown organically on Saltspring Island. List of 10 garlic varieties mailed in summer for fall delivery and planting. Owner Dan Jason says "I never rent, loan, or sell my mailing list." I've ordered from SaltSpring Seeds and I'm very happy with them. --------------------- Stokes Seeds, Ltd P.O. Box 10 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6R6 Over 2,500 varieties of vegetables, flower and herb seeds, for which germination requirements, needs of the growing plants, and pest control are outlined. Warning: if you order from Stokes, they'll sell your name to any direct-mail company that will buy it. You'll get lots of junk mail as a result of dealing with Stokes; you may want to use an alias when writing to them so you'll at least know who to blame for the junk mail that will follow. --------------------- Dominion Seed House Georgetown, Ontario L7G 4A2 Spring catalogue includes approximately 2,000 listings of flower and vegetables seeds as well as indoor and outdoor gardening and kitchen aids, books. Fall bulb catalogue. --------------------- T and T Seeds, Ltd P.O. Box 1710 Winnipeg, Manitoba R3C 3P6 Catalogue $1.00. A home and garden catalogue with reasonable prices. Vegetable and flower seeds, garden accessories, vitamins and health products. Early order discount. --------------------- William Dam Seeds P.O. Box 8400 Dundas, Ontario L9H 6M1 Catalogue 2.00, refundable with first order. None of this firm's seed is treated with pesticide. Vegetable selection includes European varieties. --------------------- McFayden Seed P.O. Box 1800 Brandon, Manitoba R7A 6N4 Mail order division of McKenzie Seeds sold locally. Comprehensive garden catalogue, including kitchen aids. Catalogue looks great! Spring and summer/fall catalogues. --------------------- Lindenburg Seeds Ltd 803 Princess Avenue Brandon, Manitoba R7A 0P5 A no-frills black and white catalogue (colour cover) with a wide range of vegetable and flower seeds at very attractive prices. --------------------- Alberta Nurseries and Seeds Bowden, Alberta T0M 0K0 Comprehensive colour catalogue; some unique varieties such as Forerunner and Chalon pansies. --------------------- Vesey's Seeds Ltd York, Prince Edward Island. C0A 1P0 This firm specializes in seeds for short seasons. Catalogue is mostly black and white, but has some colour sections. -------------- The information above was based on a newspaper article by Helen Chesnut, printed in the Province on November 5, 1991. I've added comments to her listings. --------------- Heritage Seed Program RR3 Uxbridge, Ontario, LP9 1R3 Offers rare heritage seeds free to program members. When you order seeds from the Heritage Seed Program, you make the commitment to grow the seeds properly (no cross- polination) and save the seeds of plants you grow to make them available to other Heritage Seed members across Canada. Write for a free pamphlet and find out how you can grow -and help save from extinction - some of the neatest plants you could imagine. ---------------- -- ========================================================================== Christine Code * * "A bear, however hard he tries, Vancouver, B.C, CANADA * Grows tubby without exercise." Christine_Code@MindLink.bc.ca * -A.A. Milne ========================================================================== From samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpl-opus!jewett Tue Jan 26 01:27:10 EST 1993 Article: 13134 of rec.gardens From: jewett@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Bob Jewett) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:30:48 GMT Subject: Re: Guide to Scented Geraniums? Message-ID: <64820022@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com> Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpl-opus!jewett Newsgroups: rec.gardens References: Lines: 84 > I'm looking for a guide to the identification of Scented Geraniums species > and varieties. Does anyone know of a guidebook along these lines? >From a previous posting: > I just wanted to second the request for anyone who has > it to share any information (books, nurseries, etc.) Some info from 'The Complete Geranium (Cultivation, Cooking and Crafts)', Susan Conder, Clarkson N. Potter Inc. publishers, distributed by Crown Publishers, Inc., 1992, ISBN 0-517-58883-8, US$18 list price: Scented-Leaved Geraniums: Rose scent P. 'Attar of Roses' P. capitatum P. graveolens (mint flavoured) 'Grey Lady Plymouth' 'Lady Plymouth' 'Lady Scarborough' 'Little Gem' 'Queen of Roses' P. radens 'Rober's Lemon Rose' Ginger scent 'Torento' Lemon scent P. crispum major P. crispum minor P. crispum 'Variegatum' 'Lemon Fancy' 'Mabel Grey' (mint falvoured) 'Pink Champagne' Lime scent P. x nervosum Apple scent P. odoratissimum Orange scent P. 'American Prince of Orange' P. 'Prince of Orange' Spicy scent P. fragile P. x fragrans P. x fragrans 'Variegatum' ('Creamy Nutmeg', Snowy Nutmeg') 'Lady Mary' P. trifolium Coconut scent P. grossularioides Mint scent 'Joy Lucille' P. tomentosum (mint flavoured) [The author points out that one plant may smell differently to different noses.] There is a list of five clubs and societies, including: International Geranium Society Mrs. Robin Schultz 4610 Druid Street Los Angeles, CA, USA 90032 Among the fourteen nurseries listed are these in North America: Logee's Greenhouse, Danielson CT, 203-774-8038 Fischer Geraniums, Homestead FL, 305-245-9464 Shady Hill, Batavia IL, 708-879-5665 Davidson-Wilson Greenhouses, Crawfordsville, IN, 317-364-0556 Cook's Geranium Nursery, Lyons KA, 316-257-5033 Oglevee, Ltd., Connellsville PA, 412-628-8360 Colonial Florists, Ltd., St. Catherine's, Ontario L2MIM4, 416-934-3196 Bob Jewett From samba!concert!gatech!udel!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Tue Jan 26 14:41:38 EST 1993 Article: 13145 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: kw0426@shire.ac.arknet.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Moss culture Date: 25 Jan 1993 23:22:02 -0600 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 11 Sender: daemon@cs.utexas.edu Message-ID: <00967290.46FAD860.13329@shire.ac.arknet.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu Hello! This is: kw0426@shire.ac.arknet.edu I am interested in any information anyone might have on the subject of moss culture. I am interested not only in mosses, but in all non-vascular plants. I am in need of tips for growing and maintaining these plants, and tips for culturing tissues from these plants (what Agar should I use? What recipe?) If anyone wishes to send me tips, or could point me in the direction for more information, I would be most grateful! Thanks for your time-- --Ken kw0426@shire.ac.arknet.edu From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!den0 Wed Jan 27 23:18:35 EST 1993 Article: 13193 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!den0 From: den0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DEAN E. NELSON) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: greenhouse plans Message-ID: <1993Jan27.235608.55689@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: 27 Jan 93 23:56:08 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 44 In article <1993Jan25.205613.11483@informix.com>, stevek@providence (Steven Klitzing) writes: >Where can I get hold of some plans for building my own greenhouse? What >companies can I contact who either sell plans or materials for building >greenhouses? > >Thanks in advance, > >Steve > I tried to send this via e-mail, but the host providence was unknown, because no domain is appended. I have information from two companies that manufacture kits. Pipe Engineering Corp. 353 Atlantic Ave. Clayton, NJ 08312 609-881-5880 Fox Hill Farm 20 Lawrence St. Rockville, CT 06066 203-875-6676 Another source of greenhouse supplies is Schaefer Supply 1-800-800-0042 When you call they will ask you where you got the number. I got it out of the Lancaster Farming weekly newspaper here in PA. Hope this helps... Dean -- Dean E. Nelson den0@lehigh.edu (Internet) (215)-758-4988 (That is d-e-n-zero, not the letter O) From samba!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Fri Jan 29 23:05:52 EST 1993 Article: 13213 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Moss culture Message-ID: <1993Jan28.190512.10328@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 28 Jan 93 19:05:11 -0600 References: <00967290.46FAD860.13329@shire.ac.arknet.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 13 In article <00967290.46FAD860.13329@shire.ac.arknet.edu>, kw0426@shire.ac.arknet.edu writes: > I am interested in any information anyone might have on the subject > of moss culture. I am interested not only in mosses, but in all > non-vascular plants. I am in need of tips for growing and maintaining > these plants, and tips for culturing tissues from these plants > (what Agar should I use? What recipe?) Knopf's solution + Nitsch's micronutrients + 1 drop FeCl2 per liter + 10g agar makes a good all-purpose fern and moss agar. You may need to adjust pH for special purposes. Most moss spores germinate in a few days on this agar; ferns take 3-10 days depending on species. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Mon Feb 1 23:42:18 EST 1993 Article: 13319 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Root-knot Nematode in Florida Message-ID: <1993Feb1.172726.10396@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 1 Feb 93 17:27:26 -0600 References: <9301272103.AA14889@sps070.lds.loral.com> <1993Jan29.122141.10339@iscsvax.uni.edu> <1kch74INNknm@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 13 In article <1kch74INNknm@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, arkdr@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Dave Rindos) writes: > This month's Gardening Australia came out a little while ago. In it > there was a letter on controlling nematodes (the bane of my life!). The > recommendation was for 1kg of common sugar dissolved in warm water per > 10 sq meters of garden. More highly recommended (for its fertilising > value and cheaper prices) was feed molasses at 4-20 kg (again diluted in > at least 3 parts water per part molasses) per 10 m2. Is the sugar supposed to plasmolyze the nematodes, or just encourage predatory fungi? Or something else? BTW, we're growing nematode- trapping fungi in Bio I lab this year... ;-) 8-) Kay Klier From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Mon Feb 1 23:42:46 EST 1993 Article: 13318 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: A couple of questions Message-ID: <1993Feb1.172140.10395@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 1 Feb 93 17:21:40 -0600 References: <1993Jan29.160254.24198@news.columbia.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 17 In article <1993Jan29.160254.24198@news.columbia.edu>, kevin@howdy.cc.columbia.edu (Kevin Harris) writes: > > Recently, in the Henrietta's Nursery catalog, I saw that they are selling > vitamin B1 tablets for US $.01 each. As a believer in the benefits of using > Superthrive when transplanting/repotting my houseplants, I was wondering if > these tablets would do just as well (disolved in a bucket of water) or if > there's some super-duper secret ingredient in Superthrive that I'd be missing. B1 retails in the chemical supply catalogs for about $20/100 grams, which is enough B1 to treat several corn fields.... ;-) Yes, you can buy B1 tablets and dissolve them in water, a la Superthrive or Transplantone. An equally effective substitute is an ordinary 1-a-day type vitamin tablet, dissolved in a quart or so of warm water. Vitamins + iron are sometimes marginally more effective, esp. in poor soils. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ct076 Mon Feb 1 23:44:04 EST 1993 Article: 13324 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ct076 From: ct076@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael T. Loos) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: House plants - Catalogs? Date: 2 Feb 1993 02:37:33 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 23 Message-ID: <1kkmpdINNp6a@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu Hmmm... should I even say *house plants*? The Glasshouse Works is an establishment that deals with some of the rarest plants in the world. The owners are both knowledgeable and reputeable. I have dealt with them for the last 5-6 years and find that I can safely recommend them to anyone. They carry both the bizarre and the commonplace, but I do have a few words of warning. The catalog text is almost entirely binomial nomenclature. It is not easy to read and there are only a few computeresque line drawings to help the immagination. If you are interested... Glasshouse Works Greenhouses Church St. P.O. Box 97 Stewart, OH 45778-0097 the catalog is $1.50 or $2.00 This place does ship overseas. Good luck Michael Loos ct076@cleveland.freenet.edu From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!daver!quack!pharvey Wed Feb 3 19:55:27 EST 1993 Article: 13353 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!daver!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) Subject: Grafting Book was Home Orchard Society Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: <1993Feb01.214648.28546@news.mentorg.com> Date: 2 Feb 1993 19:37:59 UTC Lines: 32 In article <1993Feb01.214648.28546@news.mentorg.com> rreid@rreid.mentorg.com (Richard Reid) writes: >PS> anyone know of a good book on grafting? "The Grafter's Handbook", R.J. Garner, Published in association with The Royal Horticultural Society, Cassell, London, ISBN: 0-304-32172-9 "A classic text which has stood pre-eminent for 40 years." -Philip McMillan Browse, Director of the Royal Horticultural Society's Gardens at Wisley. The Grafter's Hanbook, long established as *the* encyclopedia of plant propagation by grafting, is updated once again in this new fifth edition. Everything the dedicated amateur, the student, and the professional horticulturist wants to know about grafting is to be found in this book, clearly written in a concise and straightforward style, the distillation of a lifetime's careful study and research. The author's line drawings are complemented by well chosen photographs, and a new Appendix on micrografting by Dr. O.P. Jones of the East Malling Research Station completes the book. R.J. Garner was for many years based at the East Malling Research Station in Kent. His contribution to the knowledge, development and teaching of grafting techniques over the period cannot be overestimated. He long ago became *the* authority on his subject. The first and subsequent editions of The Grafter's Handbook have been an indispensable reference for gardeners and horticulturalists around the world for forty years. In the US, I got a new copy for about $20 from Sterling Publishing Company, 900 Magnolia Avenue, Elizabeth, New Jersey, 07201. I don't have a phone number for them, try directory assistance. From samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius Wed Feb 3 20:00:53 EST 1993 Article: 13365 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius From: Bob Klebba Subject: Re: a question about seeds Message-ID: <1993Feb3.032339.25217@nicmad.uucp> Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp Nntp-Posting-Host: mac_5 Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 03:23:39 GMT Lines: 33 In article Paul Harvey, pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us writes: >There are mountains and deserts in the western US and only a few passes, >that is why we have so few of the pests that plague the east. As for >that dirt road in the mountains, sounds like the Donner party to me. You've >heard the news recently about the husband and wife and child who were >going from Cali to Idaho and instead of waiting for I-80 to re-open, >decided to try the way through NE Cali? They survived, just barely, and >are undergoing reconstructive surgery after amputation for severe >frostbite. The West is wild in more ways than one. To answer your >question, yes you can smuggle plants in, but the local economies which >are heavily agricultural, especially Cali, and the local flora and fauna >will most likely suffer. Think of your impact first, then think of the >penalties second, then just don't do it. Right on! I live in an ecosystem that was only 10,000 years old when it was radically changed only 100 years ago. I have worked on meager attempts at native plant restoration, and it is amazing how well adapted the European plant species are for this climate. They are tenacious, hardy and some have even acquired hybrid vigor after crossing with North American spp. Most disconcerting though, is how effectively they are snuffing out the few remaining stands of native plants. I was amazed by the lack of exotics while I was hiking on the western slope of the Rockies a couple years ago. It dawned on me then how effective the mountains are as a natural barrier between ecosystems. It is important for us to respect these barriers! Bob Klebba Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4 Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu "Feed the soil, not the plant" From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc.edu!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sgi!wdl1!spl1.spl.loral.com!lcm Wed Feb 3 20:01:24 EST 1993 Article: 13369 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc.edu!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sgi!wdl1!spl1.spl.loral.com!lcm From: lcm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Luciana C. Messina) Subject: Advice on fast-growing ground covers for orchard Message-ID: <1993Feb3.213431.12610@wdl.loral.com> Sender: news@wdl.loral.com Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 21:34:31 GMT Lines: 5 I would appreciate any suggestions on plants for ground cover in a small home orchard. Specifically, the site has full sun, clay soil, and a slight slope (zone 16, SJ's Almaden Valley). I am looking for fast-growing (to keep the weeds down), perennial, drought-tolerant, low-maintenance plants that would be aesthethically pleasing with the semi-dwarf fruit trees (considerations listed in order of highest priority). Also, has anyone tried the flowering lawn mix sold by Smith and Hawkens ? Thanks, Luciana Messina lcm@luce.ssd.loral.com From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Feb 4 22:25:04 EST 1993 Article: 13400 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Interesting Annuals? Message-ID: <1993Feb4.125100.10512@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 4 Feb 93 12:51:00 -0600 References: <1993Feb3.222222.7090@cbnews.cb.att.com> Distribution: na Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 58 In article <1993Feb3.222222.7090@cbnews.cb.att.com>, gwb@cbnews.cb.att.com (gregory.blum) writes: > I would greatly appreciate recommendations of favorite slightly > unusual annuals. I don't really want any of the short little > over-used things one can pick up at the K-Mart; I'd really like > some things with a lot of height (say over three feet); that's > really all of the qualifiers I can think of, though I guess > fairly easy culture would be a plus. Cleome (spider flower) is dead easy... worst thing I can say about it is that it tends to volunteer, and it has some spines on the stem. White and violet strains are now available, along with the commoner pink. Odd-colored salvias, like the Salvia farinacea hybrids (blue salvia) Some strains of Bells of Ireland do well the first year, though it's technically a biennial. BIG coleus. Amaranthus tricolor and its hybrids Lavatera trimestris, like Silver Cup and related species and cultivars... various Malva species iceland poppy (Thompson and Morgan have some really wild strains) dahlia from seed lots more... will put together a better list when I've had time to think. ... > next couple of years. Anyway, I've noticed that several > of the seed catalogs claim that some perennials will bloom > the first year from seed if they are started indoors early > enough. None of my reference books seem to mention this. > So what have other people's experiences been? How early > should they be started, and what are some types that you've > managed to bloom from seed in the first year? I'm in > central Ohio, so we (usually) get hot, humid summers, and winters > with temperatures down to -10 F or so (officially on the boundary > between USDA zone 5 and 6)] Try Heuchera (coral bells), hybrid columbines, some of the strains of Delphinium. And hit up the neighbors for divisions of chrysanthemum, hosta, etc-- even if you don't like the strains, you can replace the divisions when your choices mature. Another source I've been pleased with for perennials is Bluestone perennials (address in the catalog FAQ). They sell 6-packs of perennial seedlings at VERY reasonable prices-- seem to be good quality seedlings, and a nice range. That'll save you a year on most perennials. kay klier From samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc10.harvard.edu!friedman Thu Feb 4 22:26:37 EST 1993 Article: 13406 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc10.harvard.edu!friedman Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Exotic fruit Message-ID: <1993Feb4.164611.20238@husc3.harvard.edu> From: friedman@husc10.harvard.edu (Dawn Friedman) Date: 4 Feb 93 16:46:09 EST References: <728286621.AA00184@bluedg.linet.org> Organization: Harvard University Science Center Nntp-Posting-Host: husc10.harvard.edu Lines: 34 I'd love to grow exotic fruit, but it's not possible just now. Since I can't grow it, I'd like to buy it, but the selection in produce stores is limited. Not long ago I heard rumors of a company called "AppleSource" that would ship heirloom/unusual apple varieties -- the fruit, that is, not the trees! Does anyone have an address for these people? Does anyone know of other people who will ship unusual fruit? I'm willing to pay through the nose -- I feel about rare fruit the way some people feel about colored diamonds. Here are some of the fruit I'd like to find: Ripe starfruit Muscadine grapes Canadice grapes (the vines are in every catalog!) Bing cherries, frozen, to eat out of season Plumcots Loquats Red currants and ripe gooseberries Now, I know some of these are problematical for various reasons -- there are restrictions on shipping Ribes which may apply to the fruit, and I have to admit I don't know _how_ frozen fruit is shipped or if these methods are available to anyone but big growers like Cascadian. (Does anyone know why Cascadian ships blackberries but not cherries?) Loquats and plumcots are too soft for commercial shipping, I hear. But surely there's a way... Please, I'm happy to be advised of other places to post this, but I'm posting here because gardeners will have heard of varieties that food fanatics don't know about. And I'd love to hear about other unusual (non-supermarket) varieties and species people have grown or sampled. --Dawn friedman@tammy.harvard.edu From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!vnet.ibm.com Thu Feb 4 22:27:27 EST 1993 Article: 13412 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!vnet.ibm.com From: boswell@vnet.ibm.com (Marvin Boswell) Message-ID: <19930204.110509.648@almaden.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 13:40:55 EST Subject: Re: Interesting Annuals? News-Software: UReply 3.0 Newsgroups: rec.gardens Lines: 39 In a previous message, you wrote: >In article <1993Feb3.222222.7090@cbnews.cb.att.com>, gwb@cbnews.cb.att.com (gregory.blum) writes: > Suggestions anyone? Perhaps I should phrase it as "if you > could only plant one annual from seed, and the rest had to > be from K-Mart, what would it be?" My vote would be for petunias. However, they are short and you are looking for height. This would lead me to Cosmos and Snapdragons. > > &One a realted note, I'm also trying to fill in most of the > garden with perennials, most of them also seed grown. The > emphasis on annuals above is because I have a lot of space, > and really didn't want it to be mostly green seedlings the > next couple of years. Anyway, I've noticed that several > of the seed catalogs claim that some perennials will bloom > the first year from seed if they are started indoors early > enough. None of my reference books seem to mention this. > So what have other people's experiences been? How early > should they be started, and what are some types that you've > managed to bloom from seed in the first year? I'm in > central Ohio, so we (usually) get hot, humid summers, and winters > with temperatures down to -10 F or so (officially on the boundary > between USDA zone 5 and 6)a > I am in a similar predicament. I have quite a bit of room for flowers but a small budget so I am trying to establish a perennial bed with plants all started from seed. This project only started last year so I have limited experience. As for perennials that bloom the first year; I have had Monarda Didyma, Rudbeckia (Black Eyed Susans), Echinacea purpurea (Purple Cone Flower), Chrysanthemums (mixture) and Gaillardias bloom the first year. Most seed packets will give you a number of weeks before transplanting that you can start the seeds in doors. For example, Agastache (Giant Hyssop) from Thompson and Morgan says that it will bloom the first summer if sown in early spring. The packet says to start the seeds indoors 6-8 weeks before last expected frost. This means that I will be starting these seeds in pots this weekend. Marvin Boswell Raleigh, North Carolina Zone 7/8 From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsk!cbnewsj!ihw Thu Feb 4 22:27:39 EST 1993 Article: 13413 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsk!cbnewsj!ihw From: ihw@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (irwin.h.walkenfeld) Subject: Re: Amaryllis Organization: AT&T Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 22:43:05 GMT Message-ID: <1993Feb4.224305.8705@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> Keywords: replanting References: <1993Feb4.071133.11715@compu.com> Lines: 38 Original poster wanted to know what to with an amaryllis that was started to grow again. So.... I've been growing amaryllis for several years, and the following is based on my experience and reading up. 1. Amaryllises like to be potbound and don't like their roots messed around with. Thus a. Keep the bulb in the same pot as long as possible, 3-4 years in a 6" pot is what I do. b. At the beginning of the new growing season, wash out some of the soil at the top of the pot and put in fresh soil. c. If repotting, try not to disturb the roots. If you're detaching some of the "babies" make sure they have enough of a root base. 2. Most years the amaryllis don't want to "die down" even when I stop watering them. Sometimes, I let them stay green but with a couple of months resting period - i.e., very little water. Other years, I force them to die down by withholding water and eventually taking them down to the basemaent where there's no light. They've always re-bloomed in the past. If they don't die down, there's just a lot more leaves, that's all. 3. After the resting period, water thoroughly and wait for new growth. When new leaves and/or flower stalks appear, keep moist but not wet. When the flower stalk is a decent size, start fertilizing (monthly). 4. I've found that is subsequent years, I don't always get the two flower stalks at the same time. Occasionally, I get one when I restart the plant, usually winter, and a second stalk in the spring, its natural flowering time. Irwin H. Walkenfeld From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!olivea!stratus!soave!jane Thu Feb 4 22:29:37 EST 1993 Article: 13414 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!olivea!stratus!soave!jane From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Help! They've got me by the roots! Message-ID: <8977.21276@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 5 Feb 93 02:00:11 GMT References: Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Distribution: na Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA Lines: 26 My experience with mints is that some are more vigorous than others. Spearmint and orange bergamot mint are rampant. On the other hand, I have yet to have varigated apple mint (sometimes called pineapple mint) last more than a season or two, let alone spread enough to be invasive. My "chocolate" mint, a scrumptuous variety that smells like chocolate mint patties, I wish *would* be rampantly invasive. It sends out underground runners, but the shoots are fairly sparse. I get a few handfuls, every year, enough to make a few mint julips, and that's it. I also believe that mints poison their own soil, after a while. For years, while I was growing up, we had a rank and rampant spearmint patch that we ripped back by the bushel and used as strewing herbs on the entryway floor. Then, after years of vigorous growth, it began to get sickly. Within three years, it was gone, and we had trouble growing anything else in the bed it had occupied for several years after that. There was also a damp culvert that had a rampant stand of mint in it, down the street from us. After a while, it died out, too. Does anyone know if mints have allelopathic tendencies? -- Jilara [jane@swdc.stratus.com] "Every now and then, a big rock falls out of the sky, and everyone has a *very bad* day." --from the PBS "Dinosaurs" special. From samba!concert!gatech!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!nntp1.radiomail.net!cronos!felix!falcao Fri Feb 5 21:00:38 EST 1993 Article: 13439 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!nntp1.radiomail.net!cronos!felix!falcao From: falcao@felix.metaphor.com (Ronnie Falcao) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: SMUGGLING (long) Message-ID: <2783@cronos.metaphor.com> Date: 5 Feb 93 21:47:15 GMT References: <1993Feb3.194113.19500@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cronos.metaphor.com Distribution: usa Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA Lines: 38 In article <1993Feb3.194113.19500@cascade.Stanford.EDU> beckwith@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Sharleen Beckwith) writes: [Lots of good stuff about the importance of complying with agricultural guidelines for bringing vegetable matter into California. Horrors of ground spraying, aerial spraying, stripping of fruits and vegetables in yards, worries about children and pets being exposed.] >Personally, if they ever catch the person who brought in the infested fruit, >I want to be in the crowd who stones him/her to death. I think people who >come here trying to smuggle in contraband items should be put on the next >flight back to where they came from as well as being fined. So maybe now you >can see why I don't think smuggling fruit, vegetables and plants into the >state is cute or funny or clever or smart. > >Please THINK before you act! I'm not so sure about stoning the offender, but I'd sure be angry. I live a block away from ground zero in the 1990 medfly scare in Mountain View. It really was awful having people wearing all this protective gear spraying around my house and yard. I worried plenty about both the people and the cats living in our house. And the nights when they sprayed from the helicopters were really upsetting. (I developed a strong association between helicopters and disaster during the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, and helicopters still make me nervous.) Really, there are good reasons for the agricultural guidelines. Please don't try to cheat or get around them somehow. - Ronnie falcao@metaphor.com From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!gmd.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sunic!lunic!my!omega!lysator.liu.se!ceci Sun Feb 7 12:54:08 EST 1993 Article: 13457 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!gmd.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sunic!lunic!my!omega!lysator.liu.se!ceci From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Square foot gardening? Message-ID: Date: 7 Feb 93 15:22:09 GMT References: <1993Feb3.140052.1@linus.claremont.edu> <1993Feb4.173915.29733@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <1krrqdINN5pu@transfer.stratus.com> Sender: news@lysator.liu.se Organization: Lysator ACS at Linkoping University Lines: 28 kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner) writes: >I have a book called "Back Yard Vegetable Factory" (A rose by any >other name ...) I ordered it from the Home-Style Book Club. It >outlines prety much the same style of gardening very similiar to the >square foot style. If you want to consult another source on >high-productivity, small-area styles of gardening, it's a good book. The UK gardening magazine, _The_Gardener_ started a series about vegetable growing in a 9'x4' bed with their March issue. They let several avid veggie growers in different areas in GB do a test on this size of a plot in their respective home gardens. The grower in the March issue used a trellis at the back of the bed for peas and beans and sheltered the bed from wind during spring. She claimed that the amount of vegetables she got out of the plot would suffice for one person. Looking at her yields, I'd say, that person mustn't be a vegetarian or she will go very thin. :) _The_Gardener_ has a new layout starting with the March issue. I'm not sure it's an ipprovement, but I haven't made my mind up quite yet. There is also a very good subscription offer in the March issue. Other topics of the March issue: Starting seeds indoors, two garden profiles, old-fashioned roses. The garden profiles regretfully lacked the very good coloured maps they used to have. The April issue will be about container plants, and the seed starting and old-fashioned roses articles will be continued. --Ceci -- From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!Msu.oscs.montana.edu!oapdn Sun Feb 7 23:35:02 EST 1993 Article: 13459 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!Msu.oscs.montana.edu!oapdn From: oapdn@Msu.oscs.montana.edu Subject: Re: Capilary Matting Message-ID: <00967C74.5B851FA0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> Sender: usenet@coe.montana.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: oapdn@Msu.oscs.montana.edu Organization: Montana State University References: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 20:29:30 GMT Lines: 24 In article , clarke@acheron.UUCP (Ed Clarke/10240000) writes: >Does anyone out there have a good source for capilary matting? I need >a piece about 4 x 2.5 feet for my seed starting hotbox. These could be >multiple pieces, as long as they're at least 2.5 feet. > >Gardener's Supply uses this in their APS system (which I've used), but >they don't seem to sell it seperately. I need this quick to complete >my hotbox. > >Please reply by mail as well as by posting, I don't want to miss any >replys ... > >Thanks > >Ed Clarke >clarke@acheron.UUCP I have used 1/8 inch thick acrylic felt which I bought at a local fabric store. It comes in various thicknesses and seems to be the same stuff that comes with the APS system. Don Nisewanger Internet OAPDN@MSU.OSCS.MONTANA.EDU Systems and Computing Services BITNET OAPDN@MTSUNIX1 Montana State University Phone (406)994-3042 Bozeman, MT 59717-0324 FAX (406)994-4600 From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!linus!philabs!acheron!clarke Sun Feb 7 23:35:22 EST 1993 Article: 13460 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!linus!philabs!acheron!clarke From: clarke@acheron.uucp (Ed Clarke/10240000) Subject: Hortica Message-ID: Organization: Ciliophora Associates Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 20:00:57 GMT Lines: 11 A few weeks ago I asked about "Hortica" ... I finally got to examine the book. The author is Alfred Byrd Graf, D.Sc. and it is published by Van Nostrand. The whole title is: Hortica: A color cyclopedia of garden flora of all climates and indoor plants. There are 1217 pages total, 900 of which are color plates with 9 plants per plate (8100 color photos). The author also has a book called "Tropica" which I didn't have time to look at. Hortica goes for $250!!! From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly Sun Feb 7 23:51:32 EST 1993 Article: 13467 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Square Foot Gardening...more of it! Date: 8 Feb 1993 04:01:21 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 32 Message-ID: <1l4luhINN54n@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu [Many good posts about Square Foot Gardening deleted...] For those of you interested in intensive gardening, the following books are also great: Jeff Ball's Sixty MInute Vegetable Garden, by Jeff Ball (he also has a flower garden book.) Topics include: How to save time, increase productivity, raised beds, season extending tunnels, vertical growing, soil management (making compost, long/short term amendments, solarizing the soil, etc,) drip irrigation, backyard integrated pest management, and plans for many of the ideas from backyard sinks to raised beds, tunnels, etc. His newly revised paperback edition is now out and available everywhere, I *highly* recommend this book! :) High Yield Gardening by Marjorie B. Hunt and Brenda Bortz. Topics include: raised beds (etc,) what to grow for highest yields, special techniques, season extending crops, devices, special regional probs and their solutions... this book discusses 'crops' how and what to grow more thoroughly than Jeff Ball's book who focuses more on technique. How to Grow More Vegetable by john Jeavons and published by Ecology Action, a group dedicated to biointensive gardening methods to 'feed the hungry of the world'. Ecology Action does still have a current catalog filled with their books, seeds, and products, its one of the original books about intensive methods and a lot of fun to read (yes, this is a revised edition.) If anyone else has suggestions to add to the list, stand up and be heard! :-) Kelly kelly@cco.caltech.edu From samba!concert!gatech!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!tbomb!time Mon Feb 8 09:34:14 EST 1993 Article: 13472 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!tbomb!time From: time@ice.com (Tim Endres) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Alan Chadwick 1979 Lecture on Anemone Culture Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 07:38:59 EST Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc. Message-ID: <1CE00001.pnfkjo@tbomb.ice.com> Reply-To: time@ice.com (Tim Endres) X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.7b6 Lines: 20 In article (rec.gardens), kjp@well.sf.ca.us (Karen Paulsell) writes: > Thank you, I enjoyed that immensely! More, you have more? > > I heard Chadwick speak once, and while I didn't (quite) get the urge > to throw up my life and move to Round Valley for the requisite year of > study, I could certainly understand that impulse in the many who did so. > I could hear his voice echoing through that post, and will look at my > anemones with new respect. > > I also enjoyed the post. Can someone tell me about his study program? Karen Endres karen@ice.com tim endres - time@ice.com (UUCP: heifetz!tbomb!time) USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!rfrench Mon Feb 8 23:28:06 EST 1993 Article: 13485 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!rfrench From: rfrench@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Robert S. French) Subject: New hydroponics mailing list Message-ID: <1993Feb8.222918.23662@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University. Distribution: na Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 22:29:18 GMT Lines: 8 Since I got a lot more response that usual this year, I'm starting a hydroponics mailing list. To be added (if you haven't already contacted me), send mail to: hydro-request@hawg.stanford.edu Rob From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpl-opus!walker Mon Feb 8 23:33:13 EST 1993 Article: 13494 of rec.gardens From: walker@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Rick Walker) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 03:00:13 GMT Subject: Re: Rosemary cuttings Message-ID: <64820023@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com> Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpl-opus!walker Newsgroups: rec.gardens References: <1CE00001.pku9s3@tbomb.ice.com> Lines: 31 In rec.gardens, jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org (John Spence) writes: > >cuttings but all my attempts have failed. Can some kind soul give > >me detailed instructions on taking the cuttings and the process for > >rooting? I've had some success with rosemary cuttings. Make sure you take a cutting that has some old wood on it. The new, tender growth wouldn't root for me. I had best luck with sections that were broken off of an older branch that included part of the main branch: / \/_ \/_ \/_ \/_ <---- tender, new growth \/_ \/_ / x======x <------ Section of mature woody branch ^ ^ <---- developing roots Just put the cuttings in a glass of water. Roots should start to develop in about 2 weeks. You might be able to up your percentage by using Rootone rooting hormone. You should be able to get this at any good garden shop. -- Rick Walker From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly Tue Feb 9 12:37:10 EST 1993 Article: 13500 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Catalog musings... Date: 9 Feb 1993 09:46:43 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 69 Message-ID: <1l7ui3INNfl2@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1l7s9vINNf5g@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu Well, with spring comes seed catalogs, and garden catalogs...here are some of the neatest things I've seen... (by the way, Garden's Supply is selling capillary matting, 1 yard for $4.95, in their latest catalog, its not the exact replica of what they use in their APS systems, but a little thicker, and more durable, from my experience.) Ok, has anyone tried those little 'paper pot makers' you always see listed in catalogs? Its a little wooden 'knob thing' that you wrap newspaper around, and 'twist' at the bottom that is suppose to create a usable pot for seedlings...Do they work? Are they worth the time and trouble? Crazy Garden Ornaments: No, no trolls, but birds made out of 'discarded' tools, rakes, shovels, etc, and painted. I like the flamingo best (although they also have a rooster and crow, and I have seen other more random shaped birds,) from: Walden's, 1 American Way, Roanoke, VA 24016. Prices are high, about $70-105 for these, developed in Kentucky, but then again, you're saving tools from landfills and promoting local business....and they're *cuuuute* :) Keep track of water usage: shower and hose meters at $17.95 each, a must for those of us living in drought zones (er, hey, we're already over 200% of maximum rainfall, not counting this weekend's storm, but really, thr drought is still on! Stop laughing!) or for the thrify: from Plow and Hearth (see address below) They also have just about every bird feeder one needs, and even a butterfly feeder...! Autographed copies of 'A Hummingbird in my House': this is a cute book, recommended for all hummingbird lovers to read from: Plow and Hearth PO Box 830, Orange, Virginia 22960 Snail and Slug barriers: 3" wide strips of copper you place around plants you wish to save, they work great, I tried them around lettuce and orchids I was trying to save last (and this,) year. From The Natural Gardening Company, 217 San Anselmo Ave, San Anselmo, CA 94960 Instant dissolving, no smell organic powdered fertilizers!: Tired of using fish emulsion? Well this year there seems to be a good alternative that won't clog your drip irrigation system: Ion 2000 who makes 'Plant Power' (16-15-16) and 'Flower Power' (10-45-10) contain: Ancient lake bed sludge, colloidal phosphate, atlantic seaweed, organic dandelion root extract, citric acid and leonardite. $10.95 for 12oz From: The Natural Gardening Company (see above) Rodent and Racoon resistant Vermicomposting system: This looks different from other plastic bins you've seen on the market, it has a hinged lid with interlocking sides that won't get lost or blown away, and are resistant to other clever intruders (although they can probably chew through the plastic if they wanted to...) and has a built in drainage system with tap so one can drain off excess liquid for a quick compost tea, 24"x20"x12" for $69.50. From Natural Gardening Company (see above) who also carry redworms and the 'Worms Eat My Garbage' book. Thistle Monster: a long handled (39") plier like instrument with brass teeth which allow you to pull out offending bramble withough getting stuck. Its huge, somewhat expensive, but clever, and an alternative to pesticides (especially if you like working out in the garden instead of the club...) $55.50 from The Natural Gardening Company (see above) Well these are the items which have stuck out in my mind as I browse the catalogs, does anyone have any other 'neat things you can't live without' or wishlist items to add? Kelly kelly@cco.caltech.edu From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!tbomb!time Tue Feb 9 12:47:26 EST 1993 Article: 13502 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!tbomb!time From: time@ice.com (Tim Endres) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Archive? Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 08:22:40 EST Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc. Message-ID: <1CE00001.pq6igu@tbomb.ice.com> Reply-To: time@ice.com (Tim Endres) X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.7b6 Lines: 7 Does anyone know if rec.gardens is archived somewhere? tim endres - time@ice.com (UUCP: heifetz!tbomb!time) USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!tbomb!time Tue Feb 9 12:47:55 EST 1993 Article: 13503 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!tbomb!time From: time@ice.com (Tim Endres) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: What is purslane? Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 08:49:13 EST Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc. Message-ID: <1CE00001.pq849x@tbomb.ice.com> Reply-To: time@ice.com (Tim Endres) X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.7b6 Lines: 33 In article <1993Feb9.133058.1@vxcrna.cern.ch> (rec.gardens), bonvicin@vxcrna.cern.ch writes: > I appreciate if somebody could answer this. What is purslane, which part > is edible, how do you fix it, and does it have other names (in other > languages, if you knew them). Is it American native or not. > > G. Bonvicini > BONVICIN@CERNVM.CERN.CH Purslane (portulaca oleraces) also known as pulsey is cultivated in holland and France. It is rich in flavor and nutrients. The whole plant is eatable. It can be eaten raw or cooked with vinegar and bacon. It is also used in soups and stews for it's thickening ( such as okra) and flavor. The seeds are edible as a grain. One plant can produce 52,000 seeds. 1/3 of a cup of purslane gets you: 24 calories 1.7 grams protien 78 mg calcium 39 gm phosphorus 3.5 mg iron 2500 IU vitamin A 25 gm vitiman C also good source of Omega-3 Mother Earth News June 92 has an article about wild foods in your garden that list this and about 5 other edible weeds. tim endres - time@ice.com (UUCP: heifetz!tbomb!time) USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!ra!shiva4175.nrl.navy.mil!user Wed Feb 10 00:09:49 EST 1993 Article: 13520 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!ra!shiva4175.nrl.navy.mil!user From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) Subject: Re: source for buddleia Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: usenet@ra.nrl.navy.mil Organization: NRL References: <1993Feb8.175551.5623@lotus.com> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 22:05:06 GMT Lines: 19 In article <1993Feb8.175551.5623@lotus.com>, phil@lotatg.lotus.com (Phil Ritari) wrote: > > Sometime ago on the Victory Garden they mentioned a particularly compact form > of buddleia called I believe "Petite Plum". Can anyone suggest a source for > this, or recommend any other particularly compact buddleias? The Wayside Gardens catalog (which just arrived) has 6 different buddleias, but only one sounds like what you're looking for. It's called 'Nanho Purple', has reddish purple flowers, & grows to 4-5 ft tall (that's considered dwarf). Their address is 1 Garden Lane, Hodges, SC 29695-0001; order & info phone number is 800-845-1124. I've never ordered from them so i cant vouch for them; however i've heard good things about them in general (given their prices, they'd better have good plants!). Hope this helps. Judy Karpen "pushing back the frontiers of science" karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC USA From samba!usenet Wed Feb 10 14:39:29 EST 1993 Article: 13537 of rec.gardens Xref: samba alt.drugs:35978 rec.gardens:13537 Newsgroups: alt.drugs,rec.gardens Path: samba!usenet From: Doug.Hemken@launchpad.unc.edu (Doug Hemken) Subject: history of plant breeding (& George Washington) Message-ID: <1993Feb10.165202.20453@samba.oit.unc.edu> Followup-To: rec.gardens Summary: who can say? Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service References: <1993Jan29.072456.16224@times.aux.apple.com> <1993Feb4.163534.26923@bradley.bradley.edu> <1993Feb5.191015.20660@linus.mitre.org> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 16:52:02 GMT In article <1993Feb5.191015.20660@linus.mitre.org> lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis) writes: >George Washington mentioned in his diary that he was trying to separate the >male hemp (a.k.a. marijuana) plants from the females. > [deleted stuff] > >My question is this: When did the practice of selective diploid breeding >(or hybridization) start? > Depends upon what you mean by most of the terms you employ in your question! "Diploid breeding" -- `diploid' is a modern (Genetics) term for an organism whose chromosomes pair in a simple way at mitosis & meiosis. If you want to be fussy :) you could claim that "diploid breeding" began when the theory of nucellar inheritance gained dominance over the theory of cytoplasmic inheritance. Arguably that was within the last 60-75 years (see the recent history of thiss debate by Jan Sapp). If you are interested in the *practice* of breeding diploids, as opposed to diploid breeding *theories*, humanity has been making selections in diploid species since Neolithic times (see the voluminous anthropological & archeological evidence)! "Hybridization" -- `hybrid' has two current meanings: (1) a within species hybrid, or (2) an inter-species hybrid. The concept of a within-species hybrid (e.g. "hybrid" corn) is quite recent, dating to the 1910s & 1920s, and involves mating two genetically unlike parentss (or parent populations) to produce stable offspring. The *practice* of producing F1 hybrids is older than the theory of genetics, i.e. predates 1900 (you'd have to go to primary historical sources to see this). Both scientists and farmers produced pre-Genetics hybrids. The older meaning of "hybrid" (and still used at times) is a cross between distinct species. Theories of the nature of species-hybrids and their role in "evolution" and "speciation" can be traced back to at least the early 1700s (see R. Olby 1985, _Origins of Mendelism_ 2nd edition). The *practice* of cross-species hybridization goes back at least that far, too, but probably much further if our old roses are any indication. "Selection" -- the *practice* of selection goes back to at least Neolithic times. What about selection as a theory or strategy for breeding & "plant improvement"? The ideas of `like engerders like' and deliberate selection of a seed parent probably go all the way back into prehistory. The idea of "selection" also has a long and complicated history in the scientific literature and in European "high farming" [upper class estate farming]. Darwin based his theory of "natural selection" on an analogy to the selections that seedsmen and stockmen made in their plants and animals (see his _Origin of Species_ or _Variation under Domestication_, both still easily readable). Agricultural practice became the basis of biological theory! Between the time of Darwin (1860s) and the reinterpretation of Mendel (1900s) "selection" was possibly the epitome of scientific breeding. But "selection" as a theory of breeding clearly predates Darwin, and probably predates the hybridists of the 1700s. Moreover, slection was used both by those who believed in the inheritance of acquired characteristics (incl. Darwin at times) and those who did not. So where does George Washington (GW) fit into these theories & practices? I don't know the specifics of the story of GW & hemp. It would be a mistake to assume that cultural practices with hemp then were thought of in just the same way they are now. Was there a theory *in GW's time* that separating male & female plants could improve fiber quality (or quantity)? Or was GW trying to do some selective breeding, based on the theories of inheritance *of his time*? GW was an avid experimentalist, ass were many other gentlemen farmers of his day (Thomas Jefferson being another famous example) -- there were no research station and professional scientists then. It would be really odd if GW were pursuing mid 20th century goals (sinsemilla) at the end of the 18th c.! -=> Doug Hemken -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly Wed Feb 10 14:40:27 EST 1993 Article: 13541 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: worm composting Date: 10 Feb 1993 18:55:33 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 38 Message-ID: <1lbj35INNsdm@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1CE00001.psqtv5@tbomb.ice.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu In article <1CE00001.psqtv5@tbomb.ice.com> time@ice.com (Tim Endres) writes: >Also can anyone tell me how many worms one needs to eat a gallon >pail of kitchen scraps a day and how much space they need? >Karen >karen@ice.com The following is advice from the book Worms Eat My Garbage by Mary Appelhof... To determine what size of worm bin is best for your household, you need to figure how many pounds of garbage you produce per day. So go ahead and weigh out how much you have at the end of the week, and divide by 7. So if I have 7 pounds of garbage at the end of the week, that is about a pound of garbage per day, average. Mary recommends a ratio of 2:1 for worms:average-garbage-produced-per-day, so if about 1 pound of garbage is produced per day, you'll need 2 pounds of worms. She says there are about 2000 bedrun size redworms in a pound. (Bedrun worms are worms of all sizes, while 'breeders' are large worms that are handpicked for fishing purposes. Mary recommends the bedruns since they are cheaper (don't need to be handpicked) and reproduce and ship as well as the breeders in the long run. She doesn't feel a bin gets started any quicker if you chose the breeder size worms.) [That 2:1 ratio means the *total* worms you'll need, not the amount of worms you'll need to add per day :) ] Since redworms are surface feeders you'll want a bin with a large surface area, for the pound of garbage produced per day, a large bin with about 7 square feet is recommended, or one with dimensions of about 1' deep by 2' wide by 3' long. Most commercial bins I have seen advertised are about 24"x20"x12", which just means you'd need two of them for a large household with lots of trash. I like using multiple smaller bins, since they are lighter, easier to move when/if full, and if I accidentally overfeed one, not all my bins are ruined. Kelly kelly@cco.caltech.edu From samba!concert!gatech!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!noc.msc.net!uc.msc.edu!raistlin!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv Thu Feb 11 00:53:13 EST 1993 Article: 13553 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!noc.msc.net!uc.msc.edu!raistlin!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Subject: Squash seeds Message-ID: <1993Feb10.160538.16756@walter.cray.com> Keywords: Squash Tahitian Lines: 15 Sender: gwv@eastrg2 (George Vandenberghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: eastrg2-gate.cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. Date: 10 Feb 93 16:05:37 CST The Park seed company has carried Tahitian winter squash for some years. It produces very sweet 10-30 pound fruits that look like giant butternut squashes on an extremely fast growing vine. They list it as 210 days but my experience with it has been that it needs about as much time as large pumpkins or sweet potatoes (around 120 days) Unfortunately they seem to have dropped it this year. Does anybody out there know of another source for the seeds? From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!adagio.panasonic.com!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly Thu Feb 11 13:24:29 EST 1993 Article: 13565 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!adagio.panasonic.com!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Sprouting w/o mold Date: 11 Feb 1993 10:03:06 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1ld88qINNi5g@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1993Feb10.181657.6451@rigel.econ.uga.edu> <1993Feb10.221356.4798@casbs.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu In article <1993Feb10.221356.4798@casbs.Stanford.EDU> kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much) writes: >jar in the sunlight. EVERY DAY (or twice a day), rinse the seeds with ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >warm water. You don't need to take the lid off; the screen lets the >water drain away. This is a good method for mung beans and other >human edibles as well as bird seed. I don't think this can be stressed enough, rinse rinse rinse! Toxins build up on the sprouts which are extremely toxic to the birds if not rinsed off very well (and they are also toxic to humans,) before being consumed. Kelly kelly@cco.caltech.edu From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!rfrench Fri Feb 12 21:23:13 EST 1993 Article: 13485 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!rfrench From: rfrench@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Robert S. French) Subject: New hydroponics mailing list Message-ID: <1993Feb8.222918.23662@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University. Distribution: na Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 22:29:18 GMT Lines: 8 Since I got a lot more response that usual this year, I'm starting a hydroponics mailing list. To be added (if you haven't already contacted me), send mail to: hydro-request@hawg.stanford.edu Rob From samba!concert!gatech!emory!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!infonode!debradfo@maven.b29.ingr.com Fri Feb 12 21:24:33 EST 1993 Article: 13602 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!infonode!debradfo@maven.b29.ingr.com From: debradfo@maven.b29.ingr.com Subject: Need Genetics Refresher Message-ID: <1993Feb11.232107.23928@infonode.ingr.com> Sender: usenet@infonode.ingr.com (Usenet Administrator) Reply-To: debradfo@maven.b29.ingr.com Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL. Distribution: na Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 23:21:07 GMT Lines: 22 Could someone please post a genetics refresher for me. I would like to know exactly what an F1 hybrid is. Is this the same as a plant/seed listed as just a hybrid? Is it true that by being hybrid, its seeds will produce a plant with one of its parents' genes, but will not reproduce the hybrid? How can this be assuming the hybrid has to have genes from both (or more?) parents? Is it just that the offspring has unpredictable traits? How do seed companies actually produce a lot of hybrid seed? Do they go around manually pollinating two parents and then collect the resulting seed? Finally, if I plant say, two melons in the same bed, one being hybrid and the other being an heirloom (which I presume means among other things that it is not a hybrid and will come true from seed), can the seeds from the heirloom melon get crossed with the hybrid? This would mean that I wouldn't want to save seed from that heirloom crop. Or would it? Thanks. -- Dave Bradford debradfo@maven.b29.ingr.com (Internet) From samba!concert!gatech!rpi!bu.edu!crsa!vida Fri Feb 12 21:24:45 EST 1993 Article: 13604 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!bu.edu!crsa!vida From: vida@crsa.bu.edu (Vida Jakabhazy) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Good Seed Germination Book Message-ID: <110216@bu.edu> Date: 12 Feb 93 13:40:50 GMT References: <3740074@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> Sender: news@bu.edu Organization: Boston University Lines: 5 Try Nancy Bubel's _The New Seedstarter's Handbook_ - it's quite helpful. From samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!netsys!decwrl!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd Fri Feb 12 21:26:17 EST 1993 Article: 13607 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!netsys!decwrl!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Subject: Re: Need Genetics Refresher Message-ID: <1993Feb12.154445.9222@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T References: <1993Feb11.232107.23928@infonode.ingr.com> Distribution: na Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 15:44:45 GMT Lines: 11 I understand the general idea behind F1 is to get each parent totally inbred, and then cross them to get really good hybrid vigor. True? (And even if true, please, someone provide the details). AND, on the subject of genetics, I got a book on Pawpaws that says they are, and I quote, "(2N=2X=) 18 chromosomes" while most related tropical fruit are "(2N=2X=) 16 chromosomes". Huh? Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio From samba!concert!gatech!rpi!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!tbomb!time Sat Feb 13 13:10:42 EST 1993 Article: 13471 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!heifetz!tbomb!time From: time@ice.com (Tim Endres) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Capilary Matting Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 07:36:40 EST Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc. Message-ID: <1CE00001.pnfg8m@tbomb.ice.com> Reply-To: time@ice.com (Tim Endres) X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.7b6 Lines: 39 In article <00967C74.5B851FA0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> (rec.gardens), oapdn@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes: > In article , clarke@acheron.UUCP (Ed Clarke/10240000) writes: > >Does anyone out there have a good source for capilary matting? I need > >a piece about 4 x 2.5 feet for my seed starting hotbox. These could be > >multiple pieces, as long as they're at least 2.5 feet. > > > >Gardener's Supply uses this in their APS system (which I've used), but > >they don't seem to sell it seperately. I need this quick to complete > >my hotbox. > > > >Please reply by mail as well as by posting, I don't want to miss any > >replys ... > > > >Thanks > > > >Ed Clarke > >clarke@acheron.UUCP > > I have used 1/8 inch thick acrylic felt which I bought at a local fabric store. > It comes in various thicknesses and seems to be the same stuff that comes with > the APS system. > Don Nisewanger Internet OAPDN@MSU.OSCS.MONTANA.EDU > Systems and Computing Services BITNET OAPDN@MTSUNIX1 > Montana State University Phone (406)994-3042 > Bozeman, MT 59717-0324 FAX (406)994-4600 > I also have used quilt batting (thin) when I could not locate the real matting. It works but doesn't have the same capilary action as the matting. The matting would pull fluid up vertically about 2' where as the batting will not ( about 1/2). However on a flAt surface I don't know if you could even tell a diference. Karen Endres karen@ice.com tim endres - time@ice.com (UUCP: heifetz!tbomb!time) USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph From samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!vnet.ibm.com Sun Feb 14 19:50:40 EST 1993 Article: 13634 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!vnet.ibm.com From: boswell@vnet.ibm.com (Marvin Boswell) Message-ID: <19930212.051918.463@almaden.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 08:13:40 EST Subject: Re: fruit tree sources Newsgroups: rec.gardens Lines: 14 In article <1le8oeINNqsb@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, kip@space.mit.edu (Karolen I. Paularena) writes: > > We can't seem to find any local nurseries that carry a VARIETY of fruit > trees. I assume that there must be mail-order nurseries that specialize? > I've looked (briefly) at the FAQ's, but perhaps I've missed what I need. > Please give me some good sources. > > We're interested in a variety of fruit (this is eastern Massachusetts), and > have some space. Disease resistance is a big plus! Thanks! I like Stark Brothers; they have an informative catalog and good service. Stark Bro's Nurseries & Orchards Co. Highway 54 West Louisiana MO 63353-0010 From samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!vnet.ibm.com Sun Feb 14 19:53:03 EST 1993 Article: 13634 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!vnet.ibm.com From: boswell@vnet.ibm.com (Marvin Boswell) Message-ID: <19930212.051918.463@almaden.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 08:13:40 EST Subject: Re: fruit tree sources Newsgroups: rec.gardens Lines: 14 In article <1le8oeINNqsb@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, kip@space.mit.edu (Karolen I. Paularena) writes: > > We can't seem to find any local nurseries that carry a VARIETY of fruit > trees. I assume that there must be mail-order nurseries that specialize? > I've looked (briefly) at the FAQ's, but perhaps I've missed what I need. > Please give me some good sources. > > We're interested in a variety of fruit (this is eastern Massachusetts), and > have some space. Disease resistance is a big plus! Thanks! I like Stark Brothers; they have an informative catalog and good service. Stark Bro's Nurseries & Orchards Co. Highway 54 West Louisiana MO 63353-0010 From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Sun Feb 14 22:46:43 EST 1993 Article: 13663 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Info on heirloom seeds, native plants, etc.? Message-ID: <56.2b7b8184@axolotl> Date: 11 Feb 93 16:28:38 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 55 selvin@nynexst.com (Al Selvin) writes: > Could anyone supply names of catalogs, reference books, or other sources > of information on heirloom seeds, native plants, and related topics? You might want to begin by obtaining the very good book _The Heirloom Garder_ by Carolyn Jabs. San Francisco, Sierra Club Books, 1984, ISBN 0-87156-803-9. Only the seed sources addresses in this book seem out-of-date. It also has a bibliography of historical gardening books (some of which have reprinted). Some seed sources follow. SOUTHERN EXPOSURE SEED EXCHANGE P.O. Box 158 North Garden, VA 22959 (FAX) 804-973-4703 NOTE! Their combination catalog & growing guide is $3, and IMHO, worth every penny. The price-list is free for a SASE. This is the only commercial source I've dealt with and recommend them highly! -------- SEEDS BLUM [CAT. $3] Idaho City Stage Boise, ID 83706 -------- SEEDS OF CHANGE [CAT. $3] 1364 Rufina Circle #5 Santa Fe, NM 87501 (Tel.) 505-438-8080 (FAX) 505-438-7052 -------- Native Seeds/SEARCH [CAT. $1] 2509 N. Campbell Ave. #325 Tuczon, AZ 85719 Send $18 for their quarterly newsletter & annual seed list. -------- An organization devoted with preserving heirloom seeds is the SEED SAVERS EXCHANGE (Rt. 3, Box 239, Decorah, IA 52101). Send them $1 plus an SASE for an informational brochure. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org "You're only young once but you can always be immature" From samba!concert!gatech!emory!wupost!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnews!cbnewsm!krs Tue Feb 16 00:05:07 EST 1993 Article: 13685 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!wupost!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnews!cbnewsm!krs From: krs@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (kevin.r.stiles) Subject: Re: Hops : Combining hobbies Organization: AT&T Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 22:22:31 GMT Message-ID: <1993Feb15.222231.27218@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> References: <1993Feb12.184011.22319@rchland.ibm.com> <1993Feb13.161312.14262@telerama.pgh.pa.us> Lines: 11 Another source for hop rhizomes is: Freshops 36180 Kings Valley Hwy. Philomath, OR 97370 (503) 929-2736 All of the rhizomes I've ordered have produced prolific vines. From samba!concert!gatech!emory!wupost!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Tue Feb 16 00:09:41 EST 1993 Article: 13692 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!wupost!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Child-safe gardening Message-ID: <1993Feb15.174704.10836@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 15 Feb 93 17:47:04 -0600 References: <1993Feb11.203959.7051@infonode.ingr.com> Followup-To: rec.gardens Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 32 In article <1993Feb11.203959.7051@infonode.ingr.com>, kdblake@b24a.b24a.ingr.com (Katherine Blake) writes: > > Anyway, I have two small children (read babies under the age of two) > and a yard that I am anxious to begin working on. I know pretty much > what I want to plant. What I am looking for is a book for the lay > gardener about plant toxicity. I know that the nandina "cherry berries" > (as my 22 mo. old calls them) are toxic, but I don't really know about > the daffodils. I haven't seen a book of this sort in my favourite > local bookstore and I haven't seen any reference to a book of this > sort in any of the magazines I read. Can anyone help me here? Daffodils are poisonous, and that, I believe, is the name of a book on the subject of poisonous garden plants. The book I grad most often, though, is _Human Poisoning from Native and Cultivated Plants_ (or close to that title): one of the authors is Jay Arena. Another attractive and poisonous garden flower is lily of the valley... Probably the best parental rule that can be laid down to deal with poisonous plants is, "Don't eat any plant unless I tell you it's OK". Of course, years later, I'm dealing with those who've had that rule inculcated at an early age, and I can't get them to chew on a sweet birch twig until I've practically devoured a whole branch by myself to "prove" it's OK to taste the methyl salicylate. (at least at that dosage). I believe the rec.pets.cats FAQ has a considerable list of common garden and houseplants poisonous to mammals. The initial list was culled from Arena's book. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Tue Feb 16 00:10:27 EST 1993 Article: 13693 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Need Genetics Refresher Message-ID: <1993Feb15.182120.10837@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 15 Feb 93 18:21:20 -0600 References: <1993Feb11.232107.23928@infonode.ingr.com> <1993Feb12.154445.9222@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Distribution: na Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 93 In article <1993Feb12.154445.9222@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) writes: > I understand the general idea behind F1 is to get each parent > totally inbred, and then cross them to get really good hybrid > vigor. True? (And even if true, please, someone provide the > details). Pretend you're a corn breeder, interested in producing high-yielding plants that are uniform from year to year. You will create (or use) a number of different lines of corn that have been extensively inbred, so that they are fairly homozygous (too homozygous and you can run into real trouble with decrepit plants ("inbreeding depression")) Take inbred line A and transfer pollen to the silks of the ears of inbred line B. The resulting seed produced will be the F1 hybrid of AxB. A and B will be remarkably scroungy looking corn plants, but AxB will be a big, beautiful, 250 bu/acre corn plant. The seed companies produce the F1 seeds and sell the seeds to the farmer who then plants the seed and gets 250 bu/acre (instead of the 25-50 bu/acre the seed company got!). As long as lines A and B remain stable, AxB can be produced, and it will be the same from one year to the next. Much commercial agricultural seed production is based on hybrids of inbred lines. And all of the F1's will look like each other-- they are virtually genetic carbon copies. If you let some of the seed of the F1 hybrid come up next year, some of the plants will look like A, and some will look like B, and some will look like the AxB F1 hybrid, and some will combine various characteristics of A and B in a variety of combinations (plant 1 might have striped leaves like A, and a red cob like B, and the ear size of A, but plant 2 might have the green leaves of B, the red cob of B, and the ear size of A...) This F2 population might yield close to the F1 hybrid, but they are NOT going to be uniform. This is a problem for a farmer using mechanized harvesting equipment. Most hybrid seeds are indeed F1 hybrids between lines-- but not always. We non-mechanized agriculturalists (i.e. home gardeners) can accept the variability that might crop up in an F2 hybrid population. Indeed, it might be useful to us-- if there's a drought when the corn is tasseling, a farmer may essentially lose the production of an entire field of uniform plants. In a non-uniform population, chances are only part of the yield is lost if rain comes in a reasonable length of time. Yet another kind of hybrid: Hybrid tea roses are hybrids between specific genetic types (say 'Peace' x 'Queen Elizabeth') but neither 'Peace' nor 'Queen Elizabeth' is an inbred line. The parents are not fairly homozygous, so the hybrid population produced will show a fair amount of variability. One of that hybrid population might show just the characteristics the breeder was hoping for-- so it would be vegetatively propagated and given a new cultivar name. And another sort of hybrid: hybrids between species. In animals, a horse x donkey hybrid is a mule, and is sterile. No chance of an F2 generation. Hybrids between mammal species are (generally? always?) sterile (at least I can't think of a counter example). But hybrids between bird species may not be sterile... and hybrids between reasonably closely related plant species are often not sterile. > > AND, on the subject of genetics, I got a book on Pawpaws that says > they are, and I quote, "(2N=2X=) 18 chromosomes" while most related > tropical fruit are "(2N=2X=) 16 chromosomes". Huh? Diploid organisms (those with a pair of chromosomes) are noted as 2N= some number. In plants, the convention is that if you count chromosomes in root tips or other diploid tissue, you report the number as 2N=10, but if you count meiotic tissue in the same plant (say pollen mother cells), you report the haploid number ("N=5"). Some plants have a series of chromosome numbers. For instance, some lilies have chromosome number in root tips of 10 in this plant, 20 in that one, 30 in another plant... so that species might have chromosome counts of 2N=10, 20, 30. X refers to the base number of chromosomes. Look at that series above. The lowest common denominator is 5, and chances are, that that lily had an ancestor with a chromosome count of 2N=10, or N=5. You can explain the 2N=20 count easily by imagining the 2N=10 plant becoming tetraploid. Old tetraploids tend to behave like diploids when you look at the chromosome pairing in meiosis. With a new tetraploid, you'd expect to see chromosomes in sets of 4 instead of sets of 2. Give 'em enough evolutionary time, and you'll see chromosomes in sets of 2 again -- the plant has become "diploidized"; it's acting like it's a diploid. So we'd consider the base number of this lily to probably 2X=10 (or X=5). Clear as mud, right? Might want to check a good text on chromosomal cytogenetics, or an evolutionary botany book that gets into the nitty-gritty detail about evolution of chromosomal complements. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg Tue Feb 16 11:01:13 EST 1993 Article: 13598 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg From: mg@pacman.WPI.EDU (Martha Gunnarson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Sources for fruit trees Date: 12 Feb 1993 13:25:47 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 9 Distribution: na Message-ID: <1lg8gr$o0a@bigboote.WPI.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.wpi.edu The most recent issue of Harrowsmith Country Life has an article about the North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX) and a list of nurseries that carry fruit trees. Martha Gunnarson Serials Librarian/Cataloger Gordon Library Worcester Polytechnic Institute Worcester, MA 01609 mg@wpi.wpi.edu From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!bnrgate!bmerh85!bmers248!sjane Wed Feb 17 00:20:47 EST 1993 Article: 13644 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!bnrgate!bmerh85!bmers248!sjane From: sjane@bmers248.bnr.ca (sjs) Subject: Re: Capilary Matting Message-ID: <1993Feb13.163149.17372@bmerh85.bnr.ca> Sender: news@bmerh85.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: Irrelevant, Ottawa, Canada References: <1CE00001.pnfg8m@tbomb.ice.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 16:31:49 GMT Lines: 20 In article <1CE00001.pnfg8m@tbomb.ice.com> time@ice.com (Tim Endres) writes: > >In article <00967C74.5B851FA0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> (rec.gardens), oapdn@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes: >> In article , clarke@acheron.UUCP (Ed Clarke/10240000) writes: >> >Does anyone out there have a good source for capilary matting? I need >> >a piece about 4 x 2.5 feet for my seed starting hotbox. These could be >> >multiple pieces, as long as they're at least 2.5 feet. >> > Capillary matting.. wonderful stuff.. how do people start seeds without it? (rhetorical question.. I assume you folks who get by without the mats are much more systematic about watering than I.) Anyway, I get my mats from: Lee Valley Tools, 1080 Morrison Dr., Ottawa, Ontario K2H 8K7 Canada 1-613-596-0350 -- It's not irrelevant; it's a hippopotamus. sjane@BNR.CA From samba!concert!borg.cs.unc.edu!not-for-mail Wed Feb 17 00:21:28 EST 1993 Article: 13648 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!borg.cs.unc.edu!not-for-mail From: kupstas@cs.unc.edu (Eileen Kupstas) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Capilary Matting Date: 13 Feb 1993 13:32:17 -0500 Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1ljerhINNg4s@hatteras.cs.unc.edu> References: <1CE00001.pnfg8m@tbomb.ice.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hatteras.cs.unc.edu In article <1CE00001.pnfg8m@tbomb.ice.com> time@ice.com (Tim Endres) writes: > >In article <00967C74.5B851FA0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> (rec.gardens), oapdn@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes: >> In article , clarke@acheron.UUCP (Ed Clarke/10240000) writes: >> >Does anyone out there have a good source for capilary matting? I need >> >a piece about 4 x 2.5 feet for my seed starting hotbox. These could be >> >multiple pieces, as long as they're at least 2.5 feet. >> > Gardener's Supply has the matting separately (about p. 9 of the Spring catalog -- I just ordered some). You can get it in 1 yd. and 3 yd. pieces (21 inches wide) for $4.95 and $12.95 (US). Does anyone know if this can be used as a wick for potted plants? I'm looking for a wicking material to make a "self-watering" system for some houseplants. The older books all recommend glass wool, but I can't find any with the several calls I've made in Chapel Hill, NC. Is there a mail-order source for this? Thanks for any pointers! Eileen kupstas@cs.unc.edu From samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Wed Feb 17 00:21:40 EST 1993 Article: 13653 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Capilary Matting Message-ID: <12.2b7cd428@axolotl> Date: 12 Feb 93 14:04:52 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 19 clarke@acheron.UUCP (Ed Clarke/10240000) writes: > Does anyone out there have a good source for capilary matting? I need > a piece about 4 x 2.5 feet for my seed starting hotbox. These could be > multiple pieces, as long as they're at least 2.5 feet. In the 1993 catalog, page 93, MELLINGER'S INC. (2310 W. South Range Rd., North Lima, OH 44452-9731; [tel. orders & cat. requests] 800-321-7444, [FAX] 216-549-3716) lists two pieces 18" X 48" of capillary matting for $10.99 plus shipping. BTW, their catalog is free. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@@mtask.omahug.org "You're only young once but you can always be immature" From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Wed Feb 17 00:21:59 EST 1993 Article: 13695 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Capilary Matting Message-ID: <1993Feb15.183503.10840@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 15 Feb 93 18:35:02 -0600 References: <1CE00001.pnfg8m@tbomb.ice.com> <1ljerhINNg4s@hatteras.cs.unc.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 12 In article <1ljerhINNg4s@hatteras.cs.unc.edu>, kupstas@cs.unc.edu (Eileen Kupstas) writes: > Does anyone know if this can be used as a wick for potted > plants? I'm looking for a wicking material to make a > "self-watering" system for some houseplants. The older > books all recommend glass wool, but I can't find any > with the several calls I've made in Chapel Hill, NC. > Is there a mail-order source for this? Sure, capillary matting cut in strips will work fine. So will cotton cord, braided fabric, and about anything else that will wick water. The advantage of capillary matting is that it's a non-rotting synthetic. From samba!sunSITE!london Wed Feb 17 00:22:15 EST 1993 Article: 13697 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!sunSITE!london From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Subject: Re: Capilary Matting Message-ID: <1993Feb16.051620.22188@samba.oit.unc.edu> Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill References: <1CE00001.pnfg8m@tbomb.ice.com> <1ljerhINNg4s@hatteras.cs.unc.edu> <1993Feb15.183503.10840@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 05:16:20 GMT Fiberglas rope used as caulking around woodstove doors might be ideal for wicking water into houseplant pots. It would be available at woodstove shops, building supply houses and possibly air conditioning parts houses. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!bilver!jwt!hrick Wed Feb 17 00:23:03 EST 1993 Article: 13571 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!bilver!jwt!hrick From: bbs-hrick@jwt.UUCP (Rick Harrison) Subject: tangerines Reply-To: bbs-hrick@jwt.UUCP Organization: The Matrix Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 23:42:53 GMT Message-ID: <725RyB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> Sender: bbs@jwt.UUCP Lines: 201 A DIRECTORY OF TANGERINES, TANGELOS AND TANGORS -- FIRST DRAFT Corrections and additions would be appreciated. Variety name, Classification (mandarin/tangelo/tangor), Hardiness (sensitive/hardy/very hardy), Tree-description, Ripe-fruit-season, Fruit-description, Pollinator-requirements, Notes V: Calamondin C: hybrid: mandarin X kumquat H: very hardy T: small, columnar R: year-round F: very small, red-orange skin, acidic flesh, sweet edible rind P: self-pollinating V: Changsha C: mandarin (grows true-to-type from seed) H: very hardy T: R: early F: small-to-medium, seedy, good flavor; "resembles Satsuma" P: self-pollinating V: Clementine (a.k.a. Algerian) C: mandarin H: T: small-to-medium, weeping habit, dense foliage R: early F: medium-size, red-orange skin, peels easily, sweet, juicy P: best when pollinated by Dancy, Kinnow, Orlando, Valencia V: Dancy C: mandarin H: hardy T: medium-to-large R: mid-season (Dec-Jan) F: medium-size, red-orange skin, distinctive oblate shape, easily F: peeled & segmented; rich flavor, pleasant aroma P: N: the quintessential tangerine, does best in Florida V: Encore C: mandarin H: T: medium, upright/spreading habit R: late season F: colorful speckled rind, easily peeled, rich and juicy P: V: Fairchild C: mandarin H: T: medium, rounded R: very early F: medium-size, sweet and juicy P: N: "best in the low deserts of California and Arizona" V: Honey C: mandarin H: T: medium-to-large, vigorous, spreading R: early F: yellow-orange skin, small to medium, very sweet P: N: beware of name confusion; many varieties of fruit are sold N: as "Honey tangerines"; Murcott and Minneola are sometimes N: called Honey or Honeybell V: Kara C: mandarin H: T: medium-large drooping tree with large, dark green leaves R: late F: medium-large, flavorful P: N: "best in interior California" V: Kinnow C: mandarin H: very hardy T: large, columnar R: mid-season F: medium-size, juicy, rich P: V: Lee C: H: T: R: F: P: V: Mediterranean (a.k.a. Willowleaf) C: mandarin H: hardy T: small-to-medium, spreading, with small narrow leaves R: F: medium-small, sweet, aromatic P: N: "hardy, but needs a very hot climate for best fruit" V: Minneola C: tangelo H: hardy T: medium-large, vigorous R: Dec-Jan F: large; thick red-orange skin; distinct "neck"; rich, tangy P: best when pollinated by Dancy, Clementine, Kinnow, Valencia V: Murcott C: tangor ?? H: semi-sensitive T: medium, upright R: Jan-Mar F: thin yellow-orange skin, medium-size, juicy, sweet P: N: slightly susceptible to scab fungus V: Nova C: mandarin H: T: R: F: medium-large, orange rind P: V: Orlando C: tangelo (Duncan grapefruit X Dancy tangerine) H: "more cold-tolerant than Minneola" T: cupped leaves R: Nov-Jan F: orange rind, medium-large, juicy, mildly sweet P: best when pollinated by Dancy, Clementine, Kinnow, Temple V: Page C: "resembles a sweet orange, but technically a mandarin" H: T: medium, round, dense foliage R: early F: small-to-medium, rich flavor P: V: Ponkan C: H: hardy T: R: Dec-Jan F: peels easily, "delicious but will not ship" P: V: Robinson C: mandarin H: hardy T: R: early (Oct-Dec) F: medium-size, orange or yellow-orange skin, juicy but bland P: best when pollinated by a tangelo or tangor N: susceptible to twig dieback; an inferior variety in my opinion V: Satsuma C: mandarin H: very hardy T: medium-small, slow-growing, dark leaves R: Sep-Nov F: yellow-orange skin, medium-size, mildly sweet P: V: Sunburst C: H: hardy T: R: Nov-Dec F: bright color, sweet P: best when pollinated by other varieties V: Temple C: tangor H: sensitive T: medium-small, bushy R: Jan-Mar F: medium-large, peelable, seedy, juicy, rich flavor P: self-pollinating N: somewhat susceptible to scab V: Wilking C: mandarin H: hardy T: small-to-medium, dense foliage R: F: medium-size, juicy, rich flavor P: N: alternate-bearing (heavy production every other year) ========================================================================== Rick Harrison 71174.2735@compuserve.com peora.sdc.ccur.com!jwt!bbs-hrick