From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spang.Camosun.BC.CA!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!ua024 Thu Feb 18 00:29:45 EST 1993 Article: 13789 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spang.Camosun.BC.CA!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!ua024 From: ua024@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Diane Whitehead) Subject: Re: Need Plant Breeding Refresher Message-ID: <1993Feb17.053213.20290@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> Sender: news@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Network News) Nntp-Posting-Host: freenet.victoria.bc.ca Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 05:32:13 GMT Lines: 15 I used to use a Chromosome Atlas by Darlington, I think. It is long out of print, but should be in libraries.There are lists of chrosome numbers in various plant society journals, too. This is easier than squashing, staining and counting, unless you really enjoy that part of it. There are various plant breeding books forhobbiests, and an intermediate level book by Leslie Watts, Flower and Vegetable Plant Breeding, Grower Books, London,1980, which explains various breeding systems, for instance, obligate inbreeiding, cleistogamy, self-incompatibility etc. It gives information about breeding specific crops, breeding for disease resistance and so on.Good, but not daunting. I don't know whether it is still in print. -- From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Feb 18 00:30:20 EST 1993 Article: 13767 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Need Plant Breeding Refresher Message-ID: <1993Feb17.122358.10917@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 17 Feb 93 12:23:58 -0600 References: <1993Feb11.232107.23928@infonode.ingr.com> <1993Feb12.154445.9222@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <1993Feb15.182120.10837@iscsvax.uni.edu> <1lr103$fo8@armory.centerline.com> Distribution: na Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 31 In article <1lr103$fo8@armory.centerline.com>, mrh@centerline.com (Mike Huben) writes: > In article <1993Feb15.182120.10837@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes: >>Diploid organisms (those with a pair of chromosomes) are noted as 2N= >>some number. In plants, the convention is that if you count chromosomes >>in root tips or other diploid tissue, you report the number as 2N=10, >>but if you count meiotic tissue in the same plant (say pollen mother cells), >>you report the haploid number ("N=5"). > > I'm interested in trying some interspecific hybridizing, and would like to > check the chromosome counts of the potential parent species. I have a good > phase contrast microscope: can somebody recommend a reference that describes > specimen preparation for chromosome counting? (Or just describe it?) I still use ye olde Fuelgen and acetocarmine stains for chromosomal cytology. Prep is somewhat tedious. Will supply photocopies of how-to on request. I don't use phase contrast-- though there isn't any reason why it can't be used for chromosome counts. I just find that I get nauseated using phase for more than a few minutes (like 5?!?!?). > > Also, can someone give me a reference for storage of pollen? Some of the > things I'd like to hybridize don't bloom in the same month. It's alot more > work forcing things to bloom out of season. Most of the time, you can get away with storing pollen or anthers dry in a vial in refrigerator or freezer. A little dessicant (I like a HUGE single indicator silica gel crystal in a half-dram vial) works well for me. Kay From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!stanford.edu!casbs!kathleen Thu Feb 18 00:31:03 EST 1993 Article: 13758 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!stanford.edu!casbs!kathleen From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much) Subject: Re: Capilary Matting Message-ID: <1993Feb17.173950.12620@casbs.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@casbs.Stanford.EDU (CASBS News Service) Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences References: <1CE00001.pnfg8m@tbomb.ice.com> <1ljerhINNg4s@hatteras.cs.unc.edu> <1993Feb15.183503.10840@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 17:39:50 GMT Lines: 14 >In article <1ljerhINNg4s@hatteras.cs.unc.edu>, kupstas@cs.unc.edu (Eileen Kupstas) writes: >> Does anyone know if this can be used as a wick for potted >> plants? I'm looking for a wicking material to make a >> "self-watering" system for some houseplants. I had good luck with strips of old pantyhose (about 1" x 7") as wicks for my African violets. Cheap and easy to replace if it ever clogs with algae. I used a knitting needle to poke it into the bottom drain hole of the violet pot. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Kathleen Much, Editor |E-mail: kathleen@casbs.stanford.EDU CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd. |Phone: (415) 321-2052 Stanford, CA 94305 |Fax: (415) 321-1192 From samba!concert!gatech!news.byu.edu!ns.novell.com!novell.com!dhoward Thu Feb 18 00:31:58 EST 1993 Article: 13753 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!news.byu.edu!ns.novell.com!novell.com!dhoward From: dhoward@novell.com (Dirk W. Howard) Subject: Beware of Seeds Blum (Was: Info on heirloom seeds) Message-ID: Sender: usenet@Novell.COM (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: dhoward.nsd.provo.novell.com Organization: Novell, Inc. References: <56.2b7b8184@axolotl> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 17:09:22 GMT Lines: 29 In article <56.2b7b8184@axolotl> Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) writes: > SEEDS BLUM [CAT. $3] > Idaho City Stage > Boise, ID 83706 I would suggest that before anyone send ANY money to Seeds Blum that you call the BBB in Idaho about them and find out about the number of outstanding complaints against Seeds Blum. I place an order with Seeds Blum ($60.00) and they cashed my check, but never filled my order. My understanding is that Seeds Blum in now under investigation from the Idaho Attorney General and also the U.S. Postal Service for mail fraud. Better Business Bureau of South West Idaho 1233 W. Jefferson Boise, ID 83702 208-342-4649 Idaho Attorney General Office, Consumer Affairs 208-334-2424 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dirk W. Howard These are my personal opinions. No one else Novell Technical Support in their right mind would claim them. dhoward@novell.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!infonode!kdblake@b24a.b24a.ingr.com Thu Feb 18 17:20:36 EST 1993 Article: 13812 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.gardens:13812 misc.kids:50848 Newsgroups: rec.gardens,misc.kids Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!infonode!kdblake@b24a.b24a.ingr.com From: kdblake@b24a..b24a.ingr.com (Katherine Blake) Subject: Thanks for info on poison plants Message-ID: <1993Feb18.210450.5724@infonode.ingr.com> Sender: usenet@infonode.ingr.com (Usenet Administrator) Organization: Intergraph, Corp. Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 21:04:50 GMT Lines: 21 I would like to thank everyone who posted responses to my query about references for toxic plants. I have gotten the information I needed. Unfortunately, due to technical difficulties at our newsfeed site, I did not see all posted responses. I thank you for posting anyway. If you e-mailed me, and I did not respond, I'm sorry I didn't thank you personally. Several people asked me to share the information I received, so I am going to give a quick synopsis here. 1) contact local county extension agency 2) contact local poison control center 3) AMA Handbook of Poisonous and Injurous Plants 4) Sunset book "Making Your Home Child-Safe" 5) Kay Klier recommended a book she believes the title to be "Daffodils are Poisonous" (I'm going to look for this) She also recommended another book but believes it to be out of print. This information was posted to rec.gardening. 6) A coworker sent a list from rec.cats when she saw my posting It's long but I will e-mail it to anyone who sends me an email request for it. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!rtech!ingres!tad Thu Feb 18 17:21:43 EST 1993 Article: 13794 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!rtech!ingres!tad From: tad@Ingres.COM (Tom Drynda) Subject: Interesting info on rose pruning... Message-ID: <1993Feb18.093550.4908@pony.Ingres.COM> Followup-To: rec.gardens Keywords: rose pruning Reply-To: tad@Ingres.COM (Tom Drynda) Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501 Date: 18 Feb 93 09:35:50 GMT Lines: 47 I've just been reading an interesting snippet of information in "Gardening Which?" (March issue, p43, headline "Radical Pruning Best") regarding rose pruning. Apparently, it doen't matter how you prune your roses at all ! In a trial set up in 1990 with the Royal National Rose Society, they used eight established beds of roses, and pruned them in three ways : 1) Following traditional methods (the instructions on which can apparently run to several pages); 2) Just snipped all the shoots to the same height and removed any dead wood; 3) Pruned straight across at the same height with a hedge trimmer, leaving ragged ends and any dead wood. The article says that experts and enthusiasts were "startled" when the traditionally pruned roses didn't grow or flower as well as the others ! The results in the second year were the same. After three growing seasons they came to the conculsion that traditional pruning is unnecessary and that you will get "equally, if not more vigorous growth on strong healthy plants whether you cut straight across with secateurs or use a hedge trimmer". They go on to say not to worry where to cut because the stem will naturally die back to a strong shoot and will not die back any further. Hope you found that interesting. I can't wait to tell my dad about it - he being one of the 'traditionalists' ! Tom. Tom Drynda - tad@ingres.com | Ingres (UK) Ltd., ~~~ Machines were mice and men were lions | 15-19 Britten Street, (._.) once upon a time. | London, SW3 3TY (_) But now the opposite is true... | England. `---' it's twice upon a time. | +44-71-416 7770 ext 411 From samba!concert!gatech!udel!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pacbell.com!UB.com!quack!pharvey Thu Feb 18 17:23:07 EST 1993 Article: 13636 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pacbell.com!UB.com!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: ginger and bergamot Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: <64820025@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com> Date: 13 Feb 1993 08:10:17 UTC Lines: 47 In article <64820025@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com> walker@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Rick Walker) writes: >In rec.gardens, pchin@cheetah.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paulina Chin) writes: >> Are the basic principles the same for bergamot? Will it grow OK indoors? >> If I add a leaf or two to normal tea, will I get an "Earl Grey" flavour? >> (I love the Earl Grey tea aroma, which is why I ordered the bergamot; I >> hope I'm not in for disappointment in this respect.) What else can I do >> with bergamot? >Monarda didyma (aka bergamot, or bee balm) may smell a bit like Earl Grey, >but it doesn't taste like it. The real bergamot of Earl Grey fame is a >citrus tree called "bergamot orange". I've looked high and low for this >plant, but it doesn't appear to be commercially available. >Sorry. I made the same mistake. Cornucopia, Stephen Facciola, Kampong Pubs, Vista, Ca, ISBN:0-9628087-0-9: Citrus x bergamia - Bergamot. The peel is the source of a strongly pungent and agreeably aromatic essential oil used as a flavoring for hard candy, baked goods, chewing gum and desserts. The highly acid fruit juice is occasionally used as a vinegar or lime juice substitute. In Morocco, the flowers are prefered for making orange flower water. Cultivated. MORTON 1976, REUTHER, TANAKA, UPHOF, WOLFERT. Cultivars: Castagnaro: Round to obovate fruit, frequently with a short neck, sometimes slightly ribbed. Rind surface commonly rougher and the oil somewhat less aromatic than Femminello. The tree is more vigorous and upright and attains larger size than Femminello, but is somewhat less fruitful. REUTHER; O4 Femminello: Nearly spherical fruit with smooth rind. Oil somewhat more aromatic than that of Castagnaro, and hence prefered. Apparently a superior selection of Castagnaro, it is considered to be the best cultivar. The tree is somewhat less vigorous and smaller than Castagnaro, but earlier and more regular in bearing. REUTHER; O4 Sources: O4: Bertolami (A.) Nurseries - S.S. 18, Km. 382, 100, 88040 Lamezia Terme (CZ), Italy, 0968 209-124 (no telephone orders). Largest nursery in the Mediterranean area for citrus and olive plants. Also grows other fruit trees and ornamentals. CAT FREE, Retail&Wholesale,WIRE TRANSFER,OVERSEAS. REUTHER: Walter, H.J. Webber, and L.D. Batchelor. The Citrus Industry, Volume I. Revised edition, 1967. University of California Press, Berkeley. From samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!tulane!MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU Thu Feb 18 17:23:24 EST 1993 Article: 13783 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!tulane!MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU From: HI23AHG Subject: Wild Citrus Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-18750]: music.tcs.tulane.edu Message-ID: <17FEB93.21868432.0020@MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU> Lines: 9 Sender: usenet@MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU Organization: Your MUSIC System Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 02:14:54 GMT Lines: 9 I am trying to discover the name of a wild citrus that grows in SE Asia. I have been given many common names for it including Laos leaf, Kaffir lime, Makrut, and Makroot. The leaf is very aromatic and is an ingredient in Thai cooking. All of the material that I have on Citrus only talks about domesticated species and hybrids. Any suggestions, or better yet a name? Philip R. Mueller Tulane Univ. From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!UB.com!quack!pharvey Thu Feb 18 17:23:54 EST 1993 Article: 13793 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!UB.com!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: Wild Citrus Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: <17FEB93.21868432.0020@MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU> Date: 18 Feb 1993 07:19:22 UTC Lines: 30 In article <17FEB93.21868432.0020@MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU> HI23AHG writes: >I am trying to discover the name of a wild citrus that grows in >SE Asia. I have been given many common names for it including >Laos leaf, Kaffir lime, Makrut, and Makroot. The leaf is very >aromatic and is an ingredient in Thai cooking. All of the >material that I have on Citrus only talks about domesticated >species and hybrids. Any suggestions, or better yet a name? Ref: Cornucopia, Stephen Facciola, Kampong Pubs, Vista, CA, ISBN:0-9628087-0-9: Citrus hystrix - Kaffir lime, Ichang lime, Makrut, Djeruk purut. The fresh or dried leaves impart a pleasant citrus flavor when added to soups and curries. In Indonesia, fresh leaves are often pounded into a jelly and mixed with hot chili pastes. They also flavor an Indonesian soy sauce known as kecap. The rind is candied, or dried and used in curry pastes. The lemon-scented fruits are eaten with fish or made into drinks. Philippines. Cook, Crawford, Ochse, Shurtleff 1979, Steinkraus, Tanaka, Uphof; A45,C94,I83M,L90G,S54M Sources: A45: Ann's Dutch Import Co, 4357 Tujunga Ave., North Hollywood, CA 91604, (818) 985-5551, CAT FREE (Sells products) I83M: Pacific Tree Farms, 4301 Lynwood Drive, Chula Vista, CA 92010, (619) 422-2400, CAT $1.50 (Call first, may have gone out of business) S54M: Suanchareon Nursery L.P., 8/6 Krungkasem Rd., Bangkok 10200, Thailand, 02 280-3521, CAT FREE, Bank Draft, Overseas Shipping. Tanaka, Tyozaburo. Tanaka's Cyclopedia of Edible Plants of the World. 1976. Keigaku Publishing Co. Tokyo. From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly Thu Feb 18 21:44:58 EST 1993 Article: 13819 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: 'Organic Fungicides': What's best?? Date: 19 Feb 1993 00:26:20 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 20 Distribution: na Message-ID: <1m19fcINN68u@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu I was wondering if anyone has experience in using Horsetail (Equisetim) boiled and steeped in water and sprayed on plants to control various fungus (especially mildew) ?? Is this an effective control? How about the Safer fungicides (12% sulfur) or Garlic (3-10 cloves crushed in a quart of water, boiled and steeped,) or the 'new' baking soda type recipies? What about the 'Silkaben' which is advertised in Gardener's Supply catalog that is suppose to be sprayed or dusted on and forms a physical barrier to fungus...? I am looking for something to prepare for sweet pea and rose mildew this season. What have you found to be effective on what plants? (Be as specific as possible, especially if a 'recipe' is involved.) Thanks for all your input, I will post a summary if there is interest. Kelly kelly@cco.caltech.edu From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Fri Feb 19 11:17:54 EST 1993 Article: 13822 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Capilary Matting Message-ID: <60.2b8369b4@axolotl> Date: 17 Feb 93 15:44:38 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 30 kupstas@cs.unc.edu (Eileen Kupstas) writes: > In article <1CE00001.pnfg8m@tbomb.ice.com> time@ice.com (Tim Endres) > writes: > > [MUCH DELETED] > Does anyone know if this can be used as a wick for potted > plants? I'm looking for a wicking material to make a > "self-watering" system for some houseplants. The older > books all recommend glass wool, but I can't find any > with the several calls I've made in Chapel Hill, NC. > Is there a mail-order source for this? Since glass wool is just finely spun glass, you might look for some filter material used in a gas furnace. Some furnace models need a pretty big filter, and it was cut to shape from a roll about 3-feet wide and 50-feet long. Call some of the local Heating & Cooling companies & ask if they'll sell you a roll of furnace filter material. ^^^^ *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org "You're only young once but you can always be immature" From samba!concert!gatech!rpi!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius Fri Feb 19 11:19:18 EST 1993 Article: 13824 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius From: Bob Klebba Subject: Re: Something daft with Creosote... Message-ID: <1993Feb18.172311.25314@nicmad.uucp> Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp Nntp-Posting-Host: mac11 Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <1993Feb17.145618.4904@pony.Ingres.COM> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 17:23:11 GMT Lines: 37 In article <1993Feb17.145618.4904@pony.Ingres.COM> Tom Drynda, tad@Ingres.COM writes: > Well, I did something daft over the weekend. After >searching high and low through an endless number of nurseries, we >finally found the plant tubs we wanted (at the right price too). >They were wooden, fairly simple, and just the right size to put a >3ft dwarf conifer in. > > When I got home, I thought I'd better slap some wood >preservative on them. Of course, having just finished creosoting >the fence, I figured this would do fine for the tubs too. > > How about lining the tubs with something (considering >that creosote is an oil based substance which may cause plastics >to deteriorate, and perhaps consider drainage which may involve >piercing the lining which would give the plants some possible >access to the creosote) ? You should be able to line the tubs with a high-grade, thick polyethylene (polythene) plastic. Polyethylene is very inert and is used to store many organic solvents. The only problem is that solvents will migrate across the plastic and fumigate the soil, but to much lower level than without the liner. If you plant annuals, you won't have lost much in the experiment! There are some excellent wood preservation chemicals available for marine applications. Some include chemicals to prevent barnacle infestations, but others are much less toxic. There is a green, copper-naphthalene-based preservative that is common in the States and should be available in the UK as well. Do remember to protect yourself with a charcoal filter when applying any of these chemicals. The solvents can be quite dangerous, even if the active ingredients are not. Bob Klebba Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4 Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu "Feed the soil, not the plant" From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius Fri Feb 19 11:19:57 EST 1993 Article: 13826 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius From: Bob Klebba Subject: Re: Old Fashioned Lawn Mower Message-ID: <1993Feb19.022001.10696@nicmad.uucp> Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp Nntp-Posting-Host: mac11 Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <1993Feb17.191131.2091@VFL.Paramax.COM> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 02:20:01 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1993Feb17.191131.2091@VFL.Paramax.COM> Gary Palangian [RMTC/ISP], garyp@rmtc.paramax.com writes: >Any advice or recommendations on the old fashioned, push >lawn mowers (without any motors). I would like one for >both mowing the lawn and for mowing ground covers at the >end of the season. Reel mowers are great. Two pieces of advice: keep it sharp (have it professionally sharpened) mow often (at least once a week) You can often find reel mowers in a garage sale. They're very difficult in long grass situations. Bob Klebba Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4 Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu "Feed the soil, not the plant" From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!tandem!UB.com!quack!pharvey Fri Feb 19 11:20:57 EST 1993 Article: 13828 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!tandem!UB.com!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: 'Organic Fungicides': What's best?? Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: <1m19fcINN68u@gap.caltech.edu> Date: 19 Feb 1993 07:06:08 UTC Lines: 26 In article <1m19fcINN68u@gap.caltech.edu> kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) writes: >I was wondering if anyone has experience in using Horsetail (Equisetim) >boiled and steeped in water and sprayed on plants to control various >fungus (especially mildew) ?? Is this an effective control? >How about the Safer fungicides (12% sulfur) or Garlic (3-10 cloves >crushed in a quart of water, boiled and steeped,) or the 'new' >baking soda type recipies? What about the 'Silkaben' which is >advertised in Gardener's Supply catalog that is suppose to be sprayed >or dusted on and forms a physical barrier to fungus...? >I am looking for something to prepare for sweet pea and rose mildew >this season. 1. Do not wet or sprinkle foliage when irrigating. 2. Prune to open up plant to air and sun. 3. Use dusting sulfur with a hand-held duster, available at most Hardware or Garden Centers, like Orchard Supply or Woolworth's. 4. Try dusting with Bordeaux Mixture, the traditional dusting for grapes. 5. On deciduous plants, try dormant oil spray at leaf drop, full dormancy, bud swell. Also try sulfur dormant oil spray used for peach leaf curl. >What have you found to be effective on what plants? (Be as specific >as possible, especially if a 'recipe' is involved.) >Thanks for all your input, I will post a summary if there is interest. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!olivea!sgigate!sgi!cdp!libby Fri Feb 19 11:21:37 EST 1993 Article: 13675 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!olivea!sgigate!sgi!cdp!libby From: libby@igc.apc.org (Libby Goldstein) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Message-ID: <1453300112@igc.apc.org> Date: 14 Feb 93 18:54:00 GMT References: <1993Feb12.030111.13726@spang.cam> Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Lines: 3 Nf-ID: #R:1993Feb12.030111.13726@spang.cam:-1688219523:cdp:1453300112:000:275 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!libby Feb 14 10:54:00 1993 There are all sorts of plant societies specializing in particular plants. Many of them have both member and source lists. The National Gardening Assoc publishes a directory plant and seed sources. For more information you might want to send and e-mail to wschultz on econet. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew Fri Feb 19 11:23:14 EST 1993 Article: 13728 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew From: mcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: What We've Learned about Gardening Date: 16 Feb 1993 22:56:38 GMT Organization: Sun Lines: 66 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ichthous Keywords: square foot, container, mistakes, basics I've been asked to summarize some of the lessons my wife Michelle and I learned from our mistakes with last year's garden. To set the context a bit, we have an apartment with a common back yard, but with an individual patio area in front and back. Before starting this year's garden, we read 'Square Foot Gardening' cover to cover. Lesson #1: Plants need sunlight. Yes, I know this sounds stupid, but the most convenient location for our containers was in the back patio area, which faces roughly northeast. Since it got morning sunlight until 10am or so, we thought it would work out okay. Our new garden is in the front patio area, which faces roughly southwest. Also, since our garden is still somewhat shaded (by a tree), this year we've made a point of chosing shade tolerant crops. Trying to grow summer squash or beans in the shade is a bad idea. Lesson #2: Plants need good soil Typical "potting soil" packs down too much. When you water the containers, all the water runs around the sides and out the bottom, without really soaking in. Peas especially like good drainage. This year, we made our own soil using lots of peat moss, compost, and vermiculite. Lesson #3: Plants have seasons Onions only grow in the spring and summer; they start shutting down after the summer solstice. Planting them in the fall won't work--period, end of story. Likewise, planting tomatoes so late that the first harvest is due around the time of the first fall frost is a bad idea. Lesson #4: Plants need protection We have some jays around here that don't go after the plants themselves, but will dig 2" deep in the soil around the plants looking for worms or whatever. Scarecrows work for a while, but it's a pain to keep moving/changing them to keep the birds from figuring out they aren't dangerous. A physical barrier such as the cages recommended in 'Square Foot Gardening' sounds much easier and more effective. Lesson #5: Keep it close Gardens need attention; not an inordinate amount of it, but small amounts on a regular basis. This was something we did do right last year, although it backfired--the failures were right outside the kitchen window where we could see them. There is a community garden available, but it's 5-10 minutes away, which converts "working in the garden" from a step outside while dinner's cooking to an event that needs to be planned for. Lesson #6: Know what you're doing There is more to gardening than sticking seeds into the dirt and hoping something comes up. Reading a book or two is time well spent. The blurbs on the backs of the seed packets, on the potting soil bag, etc. just don't cut it. Darin.McGrew@Eng.Sun.COM The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or dumb? Who gives him sight Soli Deo Gloria! or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD?" From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spang.Camosun.BC.CA!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!ua024 Fri Feb 19 11:23:47 EST 1993 Article: 13789 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spang.Camosun.BC.CA!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!ua024 From: ua024@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Diane Whitehead) Subject: Re: Need Plant Breeding Refresher Message-ID: <1993Feb17.053213.20290@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> Sender: news@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Network News) Nntp-Posting-Host: freenet.victoria.bc.ca Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 05:32:13 GMT Lines: 15 I used to use a Chromosome Atlas by Darlington, I think. It is long out of print, but should be in libraries.There are lists of chrosome numbers in various plant society journals, too. This is easier than squashing, staining and counting, unless you really enjoy that part of it. There are various plant breeding books forhobbiests, and an intermediate level book by Leslie Watts, Flower and Vegetable Plant Breeding, Grower Books, London,1980, which explains various breeding systems, for instance, obligate inbreeiding, cleistogamy, self-incompatibility etc. It gives information about breeding specific crops, breeding for disease resistance and so on.Good, but not daunting. I don't know whether it is still in print. -- From samba!concert!fletcher!pisgah.unca.edu!unca.edu!wilson Fri Feb 19 11:33:04 EST 1993 Article: 13805 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!fletcher!pisgah.unca.edu!unca.edu!wilson Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Moss Propagation Message-ID: <1993Feb18.114855.1@unca.edu> From: wilson@unca.edu Date: 18 Feb 93 11:48:55 -0500 Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville Lines: 4 Has anyone heard of a method of propagating moss by putting a mixture of moss, beer and sugar in a blender and then spreading the results. I believe there was an article on this in "Fine Gardening" toward the end of 1991 but I cannot find a copy. Thanks, Ken From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!jimm Fri Feb 19 11:34:38 EST 1993 Article: 13815 of rec.gardens From: jimm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jim MacDonald) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 20:33:19 GMT Subject: Re: Worm Compost bin pH adjustment Message-ID: <9880049@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!jimm Newsgroups: rec.gardens References: <44666@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Lines: 129 Robert, Welcome to Ft. Fun. I received this from a co-worker here. I never tried it but it sure looks good. Jim ------------------------------ clip here ------------------------------ >2) Does anyone have a good and SIMPLE strategy for recycling clippings. > Any information, or pointers to resource material would be > appreciated. Try *fast* composting (although you may not find it too easy). Included below are some notes I've compiled from various sources: * _Easy Composting_, Vic Sussman, Rodale Press. * _How to Grow More Vegetables_, John Jeavons, Ten-Speed Press. * _The Rodale Guide to Composting_, Rodale Press. SUMMARY OF FAST COMPOSTING METHOD 1. Start with a correctly balanced C:N ratio (typical is 4 parts plant matter:1 part manure). (More on C:N ratio below.) 2. Greater variety of ingredients causes better composting. 3. Build heap all at one time and keep protected from rain. 4. Use a bin or enclosure for best results. 5. Minimum pile size is 3 feet square by 4 feet high. 6. Materials may be layered (Indore method) or mixed. 7. "Turn" the pile no less than every 2 or 3 days; not more than once a day. 8. Break composted materials into smallest possible parts. THE CARBON TO NITROGEN RATIO * The target Carbon to Nitrogen ratio (C:N) ranges between 25:1 to 30:1. * The correct C:N ratio is important to compost quickly and at high temperatures (which kill weed seeds). Temperatures above 160F are not uncommon. * Ratios lower than 25:1 can cause excessive ammonia to be produced. * Ratios higher than the 30:1 cause lower pasteurizing temperatures, resulting in slower composting and less weed seeds killed. Table 1: C:N ratios of various organic substances ---------------------------------------------------------------- Material C:N Material C:N ---------------------------------------------------------------- Alfalfa 13:1 Mature Sweet Clover 23:1 Alfalfa Hay 12:1 Oat Straw 80:1 Cornstalks 60:1 Paper 170:1 Food Wastes 15:1 Rotted Horse Manure 20:1 Fruit Wastes 35:1 Sawdust 500:1 Grass Clippings 19:1 Sewage Sludge: Activated 6:1 Green Sweet Clover 16:1 Sewage Sludge: Digested 16:1 Humus 10:1 Straw 80:1 Leaves 80:1-40:1 Sugar Cane Residues 50:1 Legume-Grass Hay 25:1 Wood 700:1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- * When calculating the C:N ratio of your pile, base it on the weight of materials. For example, if you have 100lbs of green grass clippings and 200lbs of leaves, your C:N ratio would be calculated as: 100 * 19 + 200 * 60 ------------------- = 46 => you need more grass clippings 300 (total lbs) TURNING SCHEDULE A reasonable turning schedule: 2nd, 4th, 7th, and 10th days. Temperatures should be: 110-120F by 2nd or 3rd day 130-160F by 4th or 5th day Pile is finished when temperature does not rise above 110F, usually around the 10th day if you used a vigorous turning schedule. (Usually it takes my pile two to three weeks to compost completely. I regularly achieve temperatures above 150 degrees F.) WHEN AND HOW TO APPLY COMPOST * Use only finished compost around growing plants; unfinished compost is best used in parts of the garden that have already been harvested. * Add rough or still-fibrous compost about 1 month before planting. * Use compost as a mulch for heat-loving plants (such as tomatoes) only after the soil has warmed up in the spring or early summer. * Plants that like "cool feet" (e.g., lettuce, cabbage, brocolli) can take compost as a mulch earlier. * In general, the best times to apply compost are: fall, winter, and early spring. * If soil is poor, apply organic material early in fall, working into the top 12 to 18 inches; leave soil rough. * Spread compost just before tilling in spring. * Summer is a good time because soil microbes are quite active. This is also a good time to add rock dust, bone meal, and greensand. * It's good to apply compost before a rain storm. * Apply 1/2- to 3-inch layer over growing areas once or twice during the growing season. Unless used as a mulch, work into the top 1 to 4 inches of soil, but be careful not to damage roots. From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!psmith Sun Feb 21 19:43:21 EST 1993 Article: 13710 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!psmith From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) Subject: Re: marigolds that repel pests? Message-ID: Keywords: marigold Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University References: <2B7F78AC.27297@ics.uci.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 14:08:03 GMT Lines: 28 In <2B7F78AC.27297@ics.uci.edu> mnaka@buckaroo.ics.uci.edu (Merri L Naka) writes: >Hi and happy seed starting to all! >I read somewhere that some "modern" marigolds may have had the >scent bred out of them, and that the scent is part of what repels >pests. (modern was not defined and I'd probably use odor, not scent!) >Could anyone tell me either which ones are good at repelling pests >or which ones are worthless for repelling pests? I'm especially >interested in smaller ones since they won't shade out my crops. According to Roger Yepsen Jr. (Organic Plant Protection), French and African marigolds are both effective. French are the shorter of the two. Note that marigolds are not just for repelling surface insects by scent. They have properties that repel nematodes in the soil. I have read that, for instance, strawberries interplanted with marigolds do much better than strawberries planted alone. Surface bugs repelled include: White Fly, Tomato Hornworm, Mexican Bean Beetle and (I think) either the corn earworm or European Corn Borer. Hope that helps From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sun Feb 21 19:44:47 EST 1993 Article: 13873 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: pOISONOUS PLANTS LIST Message-ID: <1993Feb21.152414.11044@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 21 Feb 93 15:24:14 -0600 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 295 Plants poisonous to humans: the list is divided into those known to have caused fatalities in humans and those with significant quantities of poisonous substances ***************************** Plants known to have caused human fatalities: List includes only North American natives and plants commonly grown in North America Poisonous parts* Scientific Name (fls=flowers; frt= (spp. = species fruit; lvs=leaves; Plant plural) rt=root) ---------------- --------------- ------------------- Angel's trumpet Datura all, esp. seed, lvs suaveolens Azalea Rhododendron lvs, fls spp. Baneberry Actaea spp. frt; rt Belladonna Atropa all, esp. frt, rt belladonna Black Cherry Prunus serotina bark, seed, lvs (frt OK) Black Locust Robinia pseudo- seed, lvs, inner acacia bark Black snakeroot Zigadenus spp. bulbs Buckeye Aesculus spp. seed, lv, stem, fls and honey made from nectar Caladium Caladium spp. all parts Carolina jessamine Gelsimium all parts sempervirens Castor bean Ricinus seed communis Chinaberry Melia azdirach frt, lvs Daphne Daphne mexereum all parts Death camas Zigadenus spp. bulbs Dieffenbachia Dieffenbachia all parts spp. Duranta Duranta repens frt English ivy Hedera helix frt, lvs False hellebore Veratrum spp. all parts Foxglove Digitalis all parts purpurea Golden chain tree Laburnum seed, fls anagyroides Horse chestnut Aesculus spp. seed, lv, stem, fls including honey made from nectar Jequirty bean Abrus seed precatorius Jimson weed Datura all parts, esp seed stramonium and Datura spp. Lantana Lantana camara unripe frt Lily of the valley Convallaria all parts majalis Lobelia Lobelia spp. all parts Mistletoe Phoradendron frt spp. Monkshood Aconitum spp. all parts Mountain laurel Kalmia lvs, stems, fls latifolia Moonseed Menispermum frt canadense Ne'em Melia azdirach frt, lvs Nightshade Solanum spp. unripe frt Oleander Nerium oleander all parts Poke Phytolacca rt, mature stems americana Precatory bean Abrus seed precatorius Rhododendron Rhododendron lvs, fls sp. Rhubarb Rheum leaf blades rhaponticum Rubber vine Cryptostegia all parts grandiflora Sandbox tree Hura crepitans milky sap and seed Tabacco (incl. tree Nicotiana spp all parts, esp lvs tobacco) Tansy Tanacetum lvs, fls vulgare Tung tree Aleurites all parts, esp seed fordii Water hemlock Cicuta spp. rt White snakeroot Eupatorium all parts rugosum Yellow oleander Thevetia all parts, esp frt peruviana Yew Taxus spp. all parts but "berry pulp" ____________________________________________________ PLANTS WITH SIGNIFICANT QUANTITIES OF POISONOUS SUBSTANCES Amaryllis Amaryllis spp. bulb Autumn crocus Colchicum all parts autumnale Bittersweet Celastrus seed scandens Bleeding heart Dicentra spp. all parts Bloodroot Sanguinaria all parts canadensis Blue cohosh Caulophyllum frt, lvs thalictroides Boxwood Buxus lvs sempervirens Buckthorn Rhamnus spp. frt Bushman's poison Acokanthera spp all parts Buttercup Ranunculus spp. all parts; toxicity varies from species to species; mostly causes blistering Buttonbush Cephalanthus lvs occidentalis Chincherinchee Ornithagalum all parts thyrsoides Colchicum Colchicum all parts autumnale Crown of thorns Euphorbia milky latex splendens Culver's root Veronicastrum root virginianum Daffodil Narcissus spp. bulb Delphinium Delphinium spp. young plants, seed Desert marigold Baileya radiata all parts Dutchman's breeches Dicentra all parts cucullaria Fly poison Amianthemum lvs, rt muscaetoxicum Four o'clock Mirabilis seed, rt jalapa Gloriosa lily Gloriosa spp. all parts Goldenseal Hydrastis rhizomes, lvs canadensis Holly Ilex spp. frt Hyacinth Hyacinthus spp. bulb Hydrangea Hydrrangea spp. buds, lvs Jack in the Pulpit Arisaema rt, lvs triphyllum Jessamine Cestrum spp. lvs, young stems Jonquil Narcissus spp. bulb Karaka nut Corynocarpus seed laevigata Kentucky coffee tree Gymnocladus frt dioica Larkspur Delphinium spp. young plants, seed Lignum vitae Guaiacum frt officinale Locoweed Astragalus and various parts; more Oxytropis spp. of a livestock poisoning problem Lupine Lupinus spp. various parts; primarilly frt, seed Mayapple Podophyllum all parts but ripe peltatum frt Mescal bean Sophora seed secundiflora Narcissus Narcissus spp. bulb Ngaio Myoporum laetum lvs Opium poppy Papaver unripe frt somniferum Philodendron Philodendron lvs, stems spp. Pittosporum Pittosporum frt, lvs, stems spp. Poinsettia Euphorbia milky latex pulcherrima Poison ivy Toxicodendron sap, lvs radicans Poison oak Toxicodendron sap, lvs diversilobum Poison sumac Toxicodendron sap, lvs vernix Prickly poppy Argemone spp. seed, lvs Privet Ligustrum seed, lvs vulgare Sneezeweed Helenium spp. all parts Snow on the mountain Euphorbia milky latex marginata Squirrel corn Dicentra all parts canadensis Star of Bethlehem Ornithagalum all parts umbellatum Sweet pea Lathyrus spp. seed ----------------------------------------- Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI in%"klier@iscsvax.uni" From samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!heffron Sun Feb 21 23:35:07 EST 1993 Article: 13851 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!heffron From: heffron@cco.caltech.edu (Matt Heffron) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: FYI: CRFG - Fruit growers organization Date: 20 Feb 1993 02:59:48 GMT Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. Lines: 155 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1m46r5INN96a@gap.caltech.edu> Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu For anyone who is interested in growing fruit, especially, less common varieties, I am plugging the California Rare Fruit Growers organization. Despite the name, this is a world-wide organization, with members in 37 countries. I've attached the text of the membership info/application below. If you want to grow fruits that aren't found in the produce section of your local market, or just want to find out about other varieties of "common" fruits, this is a great source. Matt Heffron CRFG member CRFG relevant disclaimer: I'm only a member, I am just passing this on to be helpful. (I get no "bounty" or "reward" if you join...:-) MH California Rare Fruit Growers ============================= MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION (with members throughout the world) IMAGINE mangos, guavas or white sapotes in your back yard. FACINATED with the new supermarket vegetables? Learn more about kiwano, pepinos, radicchio and others. GROW your own tropical, and subtropical fruits and exotic vegetables. FIND OUT how to grow the unusual and meet with people who do. ADD to your rare-fruit and edible-plant collection through local plant sales and seed gathered from all over the world. RECEIVE the Fruit Gardener magazine. BECOME a member of the largest amateur fruit-growing organization in the world. This non-profit educational society has members in 37 countries and 37 states. IT'S EASY: Fill in the application, attach your check and mail to the address shown, and you too will become a rare fruit grower. READ ON FOR MORE ABOUT CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, INC. PUBLICATIONS ------------ "Fruit Gardener" is published bi-monthly and contains articles about fruits and vegetables that are of general interest. Features include articles on pest control, tips for beginners, desert gardening, recipes, book reviews, question-and-answer column, a calendar of events, and reports on the latest seed acquisitions available to members. Advertisments offer rare, hardy and tropical fruit trees as well as equipment and materials needed in and around the garden. The December issue of the "Fruit Gardener" is an annual Journal, revolving around the Fruit of the Year. "Fruit Facts" contain concise descriptions of individual fruits, including botanical identification, description, culture notes based on California research and characteristics of cultivars. SERVICES -------- Fruit Specialists are available to answer specific questions relative to individual fruits. First-time members receive a list of those specialists along with a list of available back issues of CRFG publications and of nuseries that carry subtropical and tropical fruit trees, bushes and vines. Seed Bank collects exotic seeds and distributes them at nominal cost. It is generously replenished by members from their plantings and with seeds gathered in their travels. Book Service offers books that are not generally available at special reduced prices for members. ACTIVITIES ---------- Chapters in different parts of California hold scheduled meetings with educational programs. Members with similar growing conditions exchange experiances, listen to guest speakers, share fruits and fruit products and participate in a variety of activities. Members may join as many chapters as they desire. Fourteen local chapters are now located throughout the state. Foothill (along Foothill Freeway) Golden Gate Inland Empire Los Angeles Area Monterey Bay North San Diego County Orange County Redwwd Empire Sacramento Valley San Diego Area Santa Clara Valley South Bay (Santa Monica, Palos Verdes) Tri-Counties (Ventura, Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo) West Los Angeles Field Trips to members' plantings, nuseries, labs, etc. are scheduled periodically both by chapters and by CRFG. Annual Meeting is held on a Saturday in the spring of each year and includes speakers, demonstrations, slide shows as well as exhibits of fruits, books, and publications. A plant sale, tasting table and business meeting are held in conjunction with the meeting. Occasionally, a two-day event may be scheduled (Saturday, Sunday). ----------------cut here------------------------cut here-------------------- JOIN NOW AND ADD NEW EXCITEMENT TO YOUR GARDENING Memberships are for individual/couples and begin from the date dues are received. Each membership, annually, receives six bimonthly issues of "Fruit Gardener" magazine, one of which is the Journal edition. Canada/ Other Foreign U.S. Mexico (Surface) (Air) Annual Dues: $16 $25 $30 $40 Three Years: $45 $72 $85 $110 Life Memberships: $225 $350 Airmail only $545 Please print or type the way you want to be listed in our directory: Name (Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss)___________________________________________________________ first m.i. last Address_________________________________________________________________________ City____________________________________________________________________________ State___________ Zip Code____________ Country___________________________________ Phone_(_____)____________________________ Special Gardening Interests_____________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________ Occupation/Former Occupation____________________________________________________ I received this application from: (check one) Show/Fair_____ Friend_____ Nusery_____ Chapter_____ Other_____ Make checks payable to CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, INC. and mail to: California Rare Fruit Growers, Inc. Fullerton Arboretum California State University Fullerton, CA 92634 All payments in U.S. dollars only. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-10, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!gumby!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!ee.ualberta.ca!gilchr Mon Feb 22 11:09:28 EST 1993 Article: 13886 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!gumby!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!ee.ualberta.ca!gilchr From: gilchr@ee.ualberta.ca (Andrew Gilchrist) Subject: RoundUp (tm) Message-ID: Sender: news@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: eigen.ee.ualberta.ca Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada References: <1993Feb15.184349.28342@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> <1993Feb18.081659.29789@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> <1993Feb18.123231.23386@cs.rochester.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 08:15:41 GMT Lines: 30 dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: >This is confused. Roundup (glyphosate) blocks an enzyme that appears >only in plants. It has low toxicity for animals, and has not >been shown to be carcinogenic or mutagenic. Moreover, it is not >persistent; it is inactivated in soil in a short time, by binding >to clay and bacterial breakdown. One can plant in Roundup-treated >soil without waiting a year. It is used as a pre-planting >herbicide in agriculture. > Paul This is exactly correct. Roundup is a post-emergent herbicide. It soaks into the plant through the leaves (or needles) and inhibits the some rather important bio-chemical processes. It is non-selective, and will kill any plant. It is least effective on plants with waxy leaves (or needles) only because of the wetting agents used. The leaf coating reduces absorption of the glyphosphate. If you up the concentration, the plant will die. It binds with the soil and becomes inert. You can plant in roundup areas immediately. Incidentally, the patent for glyphosphate has recently expired, and several clone products have appeared. CIL Clear-It-2 is glyphosphate based as well. (CIL is now owned by ICI) -Andrew From samba!sunSITE!london Mon Feb 22 12:38:30 EST 1993 Article: 13889 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!sunSITE!london From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Subject: Re: RoundUp (tm) Message-ID: <1993Feb22.165317.22275@samba.oit.unc.edu> Summary: More information on safety of use of Roundup (tm) in gardens. Keywords: Not recommended anywhere near food-producing gardens (IMHO). Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill References: <1993Feb18.081659.29789@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> <1993Feb18.123231.23386@cs.rochester.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 16:53:17 GMT In article gilchr@ee.ualberta.ca (Andrew Gilchrist) writes: >dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: > >>This is confused. Roundup (glyphosate) blocks an enzyme that appears >>only in plants. It has low toxicity for animals, and has not >>been shown to be carcinogenic or mutagenic. Moreover, it is not >>persistent; it is inactivated in soil in a short time, by binding >>to clay and bacterial breakdown. One can plant in Roundup-treated >>soil without waiting a year. It is used as a pre-planting >>herbicide in agriculture. >> Paul >This is exactly correct. Roundup is a post-emergent herbicide. It soaks >into the plant through the leaves (or needles) and inhibits the >some rather important bio-chemical processes. It is non-selective, and will >kill any plant. It is least effective on plants with waxy leaves (or >needles) only because of the wetting agents used. The leaf coating >reduces absorption of the glyphosphate. If you up the concentration, >the plant will die. >It binds with the soil and becomes inert. >You can plant in roundup areas immediately. >Incidentally, the patent for glyphosphate has recently expired, and several >clone products have appeared. CIL Clear-It-2 is glyphosphate based >as well. (CIL is now owned by ICI) >-Andrew [from previous threads on Roundup (tm)]: Article 5620 (4 more) in rec.gardens: From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu ubject: Re: Killing Ivy Date: 5 Mar 92 17:14:37 GMT karen@synopsys.com (Karen Vahtra) writes: > I have about 1,000 square feet of ivy that needs killing along the back fence of my > property. I agree with the folks who suggested Roundup (or Kleenup, or some other brand of glyphosate). It is a non-selective herbicide, meaning that it kills almost anything it touches, but it has VERY low toxicity to anything that doesn't photosynthesize (like birds, insects, mammals...) Glyphosate is sprayed on the leaves, but is translocated to the roots, killing them too. You'll have to wait until the plants are beginning to show some new growth (almost any herbicide works better on actively growing plants) -- you might even want to fertilize and water your ivy to get it growing well before you kill it! Spray the leaves with the recommended concentration of glyphosate, then wait. As soon as the leaves start dying back (maybe 10 days?), you can assume that enough has hit the roots that you can cut out the top growth and remove it. At this point, I'd leave the soil bare for about a month and continue to water -- that way you can spot any new ivy shoots that might have accidentally survived the first dose, and hit'em again. After a month you can replant with whatever. When I spray with glyphosate, I wear gloves and a long sleeved shirt and long pants because some of the "inert" ingredients in most formulations can give you a skin rash. I wear a mask, too, since I'm asthmatic, and just about any particulates can set me coughing. Even a bandana over my nose is enough. I also mix up a bucket of water and a shovel full of soil, and keep it handy. Why? Glyphosate binds so tightly to soil particles that you can save any plant that gets hit accidentally by throwing some muddy water on it immediately. You can replant an area that has been treated with glyphosate immediately, since it does irreversibly bind to soil particles. And it breaks down to glycine (an amino acid) and phosphate (fertilizer component) in the soil fairly quickly -- how fast depends on which soil microorganisms you have in abundance. Glyphosate can also be applied with a paintbrush or cloth glove over a rubber glove if you're worried about spray drift. Just takes longer. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI PS I'm pretty cautious about herbicides, insecticides, fungicides, etc. The only herbicides I will use are glyphosate or boiling water (or hoes, etc.) I don't have the toxicity information immediately at hand, but you can poison yourself with aspirin 5x more easily than with glyphosate. Article 5682 (6 more) in rec.gardens: From: aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) ubject: Re: Killing Ivy Date: 7 Mar 92 17:37:31 GMT In article <1992Mar5.111437.2700@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes: >PS I'm pretty cautious about herbicides, insecticides, fungicides, etc. >The only herbicides I will use are glyphosate or boiling water (or hoes, >etc.) I don't have the toxicity information immediately at hand, but >you can poison yourself with aspirin 5x more easily than with glyphosate. Ingesting Roundup has killed people. I seems that the surfactant is more toxic than the glyphosate itself. There was a lengthy article posted here many months ago. I'll try to dig it up and repost. Andy Article 5683 (5 more) in rec.gardens: From: aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) ubject: Roundup Toxicity, was Re: Killing Ivy Date: 7 Mar 92 17:46:02 GMT Reply-To: aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) Here is the previously posted article on Roundup. Andy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ >From: brokaw@flamingo.weeg.uiowa.edu (Pete Brokaw) >Newsgroups: rec.gardens >Subject: Re: Is Roundup safe? (LONG reply) >Message-ID: <5793@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> >Date: 29 Apr 91 20:58:41 GMT >References: <2800028@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> <48034@ut-emx.uucp> >Sender: news@ns-mx.uiowa.edu >Organization: Weeg Computing Center, University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA ... I recently asked a friend the same questions and she gave me copies of some magazine articles. One deals primarily with the issue of "inert" ingredients in chemical concoctions like Roundup. This was printed in the "Journal of Pesticide Reform." A second article was very anti-Roundup but had very little in the way of facts, relying on anecdotal accounts. (e.g., "A twenty-eight-year-old laborer who had sprayed weeds with the recommended dosage of Roundup developed an itchy rash, nausea, and swelling of the limbs and joints." No evidence was provided to back up this or the other claims made.) The third article came from the Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides (NCAP). Written in 1987, it defines Roundup and lists 8 problems that "warrent concern when [it] is considered for use." At the time, I was looking for good reasons NOT to use Roundup (my last alternative to elminating creeping charlie--I decided to let it grow and start calling it "ground ivy" :-). Here are some excerpts from 2 articles. If people are interested, I can post the complete articles at a later date. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From NCAP's handout entitled "ROUNDUP". Written by Mary H. O'Brien, September 16, 1987. Roundup is a post-emergence herbicide that kills annual and perennial broadleaf plants and grasses. Roundup is widely used on sites where nonselective vegitation removal is wanted by some people... Its "active ingredient," glyphosate, also appears in Rodeo, a formulation designed for use in aquatic settings. Produced by Monsanto, glyphosate is a farily new herbicide, first registered for use in 1974. Glyphosate is primarily absorbed by plant foliage, but may be taken up by roots in soils that minimize adsorption to soil particles. It apparently kills plants by inhibiting synthesis of an essential amino acid, thereby resulting in a reduction of protein synthesis and an inhibition of growth. Glyphosate is readily translocated within the plant, inhibiting sprouting in perennial species. The following ... problems warrant concern when Roundup is considered for use: 1. PERSISTENCE. Although the claim is often made that Roundup is inactivated rapidly in soil, it is more accurate to say that it is usually absorbed to soil components. A sandy loam trated with glyphosate at recommended application rates (e.g., 2, 5, and 10 ug/g soil) was found to drastically reduce nitrogen fixation, growth, and nodulation of subterranean clover/Rhizobium trifolium/ planted 120 days after glyphosate treatment. Glyphosate clearly remains active in soils that do not adsorb it readily. Damage to vine maple and bigleaf maple was found to increase during the second year following treatment with glyphosate, indicating that glyphosate persists for extended periods in plants. 2. PHYTOTOXICITY. Because glyphosate is a nonselective herbicide, any desired vegetation must be completely protected from glyphosate drive, mist, or drip. As Monsanto notes in its Rounup label guide, "...minute quantities of this herbicide can cause severe damage or destruction to the crop, plants, or other areas on which treatment was not intended." 3. TOXICITY OF 'INERT' INGREDIENTS. [see next article -ed] 4. TESTING. [The article explains that testing on glyphosate by itself is inadequate since the inert ingredients are very important to making Roundup work. Most test results are "unpublished and developed by Monsanto or laboratories hired by Monsanto." [ Other points are made about lack of cancer testing and links to "human damage" including "conjunctivitis (inflammation oft he eyelid and eyeball mucous membrane), dermatitis (inflammation of the skin), and severe flu-like symptoms following exposure to glyphosate. Of 143 pesticides reported for causing human illness in California in 1986, glyphosate was fourth in the number of incidents reported." No further details on this statistic are given. -ed ] A "Roundup Information Packet" containing a series of articles on Roundup is available for $10.50 postpaid from NCAP; P.O. Box 1393; Eugene OR 97440. A file of these and additional glyphsate/Roundup articles is maintained at NCAP; these can be copied at 10 cents/page. [ These prices may not be current considering the article is nearly four years old. -ed ] [ five years now -andy ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From "Roundup, Vision, POEA, and 1,4-Dioxane: Why Full Formulations Are the Problem." Written by Mary O'Brien--a staff scientist for NCAP. Vol. 9, No. 4 of the Journal of Pesticide Reform. When a letter by four Japanese emergency medicine professionals appeared in the February 6, 1988 issue of the American medical journal, The Lancet, a Washington toxicology conultant, David Monroe, took note. The Japanese authors were noting that an "inert ingredient" in the herbicide Roundup (rather than the identified "active" ingredient, glyphosate) accounts for the acute toxicity they had found in patients poisoned (some fatally) by Roundup (JPR 8(1):30). Symptoms included gastrointestinal ("GI" -ed) pain and vomiting, swelling of the lungs and pneumonia, reduction of blood pressure, clouding of consciousness, and red blood cell destruction. The so-called "inert ingredient," polyoxyethyleneamine (POEA), actually refers to a family of chemicals. It is added to Roundup and Vision herbicide formulations as a surfactant, an ingredient that will help evenly spread the active ingredient, glyphosate, on target plants. The Japanese researchers noted that the acute lethal dose of POEA is less than one-third (i.e., POEA is three times as toxic) that of Roundup, and that POEA belongs to a class of surfactants that have been reported to cause adverse GI and central nervous system effects and damage to red blood cells. As POEA does not appear on the Roundup label (supposedly protected, as an inert, from public disclosure under the U.S. pesticide law...), Monroe first learned of its presense in Roundup through the Lancet letter. Monroe recalled a U.S. EPA memorandum that discussed the presence of 1,4-dioxane in two polyalkoxylated polyamine products ... manufactured by the Henkel Corporation. Knowing that POEA is a polyalkoxylated amine, Monroe suspected that 1,4-dioxane might be present as a contaminant of POEA. [ the article now describes the side effects of 1,4-dioxane, which include liver and kidney damage, and cancer in laboratory animals. "The liver and kidney damage can occur regardless of the route of 1,4-dioxane exposure (inhalation, oral ingestion, and/or skin application)." This section concludes with this statement: 'The International Agency for Research on Cancer indicates that evidence is "sufficient" to know that 1,4-dioxane causes cancer in animals and the U.S EPA regards 1,4-dioxane as a probable human carcinogen.' Researchers in British Columbia went on to test Vision (Canada's version of Roundup) checking for 1,4-dioxane contamination. From a 250ml sample, the CANTEST lab detected 350 parts per million 1,4-dioxane using a purge and trap method. That level is equivalent to .35 percent. Now quoting again from the article: ] A 1982 EPA memo ... also discussed 1,4-dioxane as being present in dichloroethyl ether. The 1982 EPA memo ... had been prompted by concern that 1,4-dioxane had been found in dichloroethyl ether at 0.42 percent and 0.55 percent. Under "comments/recommendations" in the memo, the EPA noted that the manufacturer of the contaminated dichloroethyl ether "reported that its employees and cutomers were being notified of the presence of 1,4-dioxane in dichloroethyl ether. In addition, the company reported that its current safety precautions inclue 'body-protective clothing and boots, eye protection, and monitoring of air levels of dichloroethyl ether.'" Users of Roundup and Vision are not informed that the formulation contains either POEA or 1,4-dioxane. Roundup is widely used by homeowners wearing no particular protective clothing, and the label merely states, "Avoid contact with eyes, skin, and clothing because of possible (eye and skin) irritation." The presence of 1,4-dioxane in Vision (and presumably in Roundup) is a classic example of the following: 1. Full formulations, "inert" ingredients, and contaminants, not merely the so-called "active" ingredient, can cause cancer and other adverse chronic effects; their exemption from testing for chronic toxicity is indefensible. 2. The current classification by the EPA of POEA as a "List 3" inert ingredient ("inert of unknown toxicity"), subject neither to listing on the label nor toxicological testing requirements, is indefensible. 3. Estimating the toxicity of glyphosate alone is meaningless when a full formulation (e.g., Roundup, Vision) containing POEA, 1,4-dioxane, and other unlisted ingredients and contaminants is the mixture to which people and the environment will be exposed. What you don't know can hurt you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Pete Brokaw, Weeg Computing Center, University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA 52242 >brokaw@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu 319-335-5453 >Disclaimer: I am not associated with Monsanto, or NCAP. I am merely an >interested party to this discussion. -- From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu ubject: Re: Killing Ivy Date: 9 Mar 92 00:38:51 GMT Organization: University of Northern Iowa aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) writes: > klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes: >>PS I'm pretty cautious about herbicides, insecticides, fungicides, etc. >>The only herbicides I will use are glyphosate or boiling water (or hoes, >>etc.) I don't have the toxicity information immediately at hand, but >>you can poison yourself with aspirin 5x more easily than with glyphosate. > > Ingesting Roundup has killed people. I seems that the surfactant is more > toxic than the glyphosate itself. There was a lengthy article posted here > many months ago. I'll try to dig it up and repost. True. The toxicity info I gave was for _glyphosate_, not Roundup. That's why I wear gloves when working with the commercial formulations. Kay Article 6061 in rec.gardens: From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Subject: Re: Roundup continued Date: 23 Mar 92 01:07:59 GMT Organization: University of Northern Iowa brianb@sprintcom (Brian Bailey) writes: > The discussion on round-up was a very interesting thread which just > seemed to stop without conclusion. If the active ingredient is harmless > which Kay says she can get, then is it commercially available to us > phlebes. If not is round-up worth the risk, or are there other viable > alternatives that are less toxic and still work. Straight glyphosate is available for investigational use, at about $20/gram for 96% purity. The "pure" stuff I used was part of a research study -- and we had some left over, so I got permission to use it up on a natural area that needed selective weed control. I don't know of any broad-spectrum herbicide that is any safer than glyphosate. The various commercial formulations add adjuvants and surfactants that increase the herbicidal activity. These are not considered to be "active" ingredients, so they do not have to be on the label. This is a major problem, IMHO, with current labeling laws. I did a quick search of the last five years of the AGRICOLA data base (National Ag. Library), without turning up any information on human toxicity of glyphosate or glyphosate preparations -- other than the mention of skin irritation. This correlates to the information in the 1990 herbicide handbooks that are on my reference shelf. I believe someone mentioned the possibility of dioxin contamination -- can you please give us a citation, because I'm not turning anything up on that. When dealing with any chemical or mixture of chemicals, you have to assess the risk on the basis of knowledge and (more often than not) on gut feeling. Any chemical -- including pure water -- is hazardous when taken in quantity. The Ames test for probable carcinogens is OK, but not perfect. The various animal tests are likewise OK, but not perfect -- there's just too much variation in toxic threshholds from one species to another. The best we can do is gather all the data we can, then take a deep breath and try to make a good decision. Barring startling new data turning up, I believe that the amount of Roundup or other glyphosate preparations I've used are a negligible risk to me and the environment, especially when compared to other risks that I take all the time without thinking about them: driving a car, eating peanut butter sandwiches, visiting cities, breathing exhaust fumes, sitting in the sun, drinking tap water.... Yes, I try to be careful in how I handle and apply it. If I spray, I use a coarse spray to minimize drift, and wear a mask and long sleeves and wash up afterwards. If I'm using a wipe applicator (gloves or "stamp licker", I've got a couple of pairs of gloves on of different materials (usually latex and vinyl) to prevent skin contact. Should I accidentally spill some on my pant legs (and I haven't yet), I doubt very much if I'd tear my clothes off and run screaming for the nearest source of water: instead I'd dump some muddy water on the spot, and change my jeans when I got back to wherever I stashed my pack. These are choices I've made after evaluating all the information I have available to me, and weighing the possible risks against the other choices: an impossible amount of hand labor, or using other chemicals of possibly greater toxicity. Each of us must decide these things for ourselves. Life is never risk-free. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI : : : : - Lawrence london@sunsite.unc.edu - From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!utgpu!richter Mon Feb 22 21:32:10 EST 1993 Article: 13906 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!utgpu!richter From: richter@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) Subject: Re: pOISONOUS PLANTS LIST Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: <1993Feb21.152414.11044@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 23:07:56 GMT Lines: 6 Where did this list come from, or is it your own compilation? Conrad Richter Richters Herbs Goodwood, Ontario L0C 1A0 Canada From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Mon Feb 22 21:33:28 EST 1993 Article: 13907 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Need answers to two questions Message-ID: <1993Feb22.172429.11081@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 22 Feb 93 17:24:29 -0600 References: <38657@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 38 mariou@astro.astro.ufl.edu (Mariou Gottesman) writes: > b) We have started a rose garden. Now roses do not do very well > in Florida because they get fungus and you must keep fighting. > My husband sprays the lot but I believe he is not as careful as > I would like him to be with the sprays. Where can Ibuy protective > clothing and mask? I am sure they is a place on this world but > where? If you choose rose cultivars that are resistant to various fungal diseases, you don't need to spray. Check with your local horticulture department, parks department or botanical garden for roses that do well in your area without spraying. Also, decide if you _must_ have catalog-perfect roses. Personally, I can tolerate a lot of black spot, rust, etc. on a rose _a lot_ easier than I can stand to see a lot of spray residue. Most plants and their plant diseases reach a compromise if you give them time. Most of the time plants do fine if you work a little harder on giving them the growing conditions you need and forget about the pesticides. Lime-sulfur, detergent, and baking soda all give adequate control of most rose pests in most circumstances. (Warning: when you switch from "hard chemical controls" to no sprays or low toxicity sprays, you can expect to see an upsurge in pest populations for a few weeks or months. Give 'em time, and they'll settle down to a much lower population level. As for finding protective clothing and respirators (a great idea for anyone doing a lot of spraying), check the yellow pages under "safety equipment", "farm supplies" and "grower supplies". Just as a reminder: if you're working with something really toxic (which most homeowners shouldn't be), masks need to be individually fitted and smoke-tested. The shape of your cheekbones, the width of your face, the presence of facial hair -- all of these can cause one mask to fit you better than another. *** And don't forget the goggles and neoprene gloves! *** Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!uwec.edu!mcelwre Tue Feb 23 10:55:12 EST 1993 Article: 13911 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!uwec.edu!mcelwre From: mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: ALCHEMY IN THE GARDEN Message-ID: <1993Feb22.192806.4303@cnsvax.uwec.edu> Date: 22 Feb 93 19:28:06 -0600 Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire Lines: 104 The principles described below could be applied to gardening. Chapter 17 of the book "The Secret Life of Plants" is titled "ALCHEMY IN THE GARDEN". BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ( ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ) ( ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ) A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the FACT of "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS" (reactions like Mg + O --> Ca, Si + C --> Ca, K + H --> Ca, N2 --> CO, etc.), as described in the BOOK "Biological Transmutations" by Louis Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS" [see Footnote] by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, 1973: (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight and number. (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper for three or four weeks. (4) Separately incinerate both groups. (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of the sprouted group will usually weigh at least SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for mineral content. [Some of the mineral atoms of the sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our own bodies. Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C --> Ca, (much faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. The two reactions Si + C <--> Ca, by micro-organisms, cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. The reaction N2 --> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, creates a CARBON-MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY! ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the currently accepted "laws" of physics. Footnote: Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". ENTIRE BOOK is FASCINATING! "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", 1st Edition, by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of Science, 1972, 163 Pages, Illustrated, Swan House Publishing Co., P.O. Box 638, Binghamton, NY 13902 "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, 1973, 402 Pages, Harper & Row, New York UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. Robert E. McElwaine B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd Tue Feb 23 10:57:46 EST 1993 Article: 13924 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Subject: Re: ALCHEMY IN THE GARDEN Message-ID: <1993Feb23.145048.15471@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T References: <1993Feb22.192806.4303@cnsvax.uwec.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 14:50:48 GMT Lines: 26 In article <1993Feb22.192806.4303@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: > snip snip snip > > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY! > > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics. > snip snip snip > This was the only part of the list that I recognized as maybe violating laws of physics. I have never heard of anything on the atomic level having an effect on the subatomic--except, perhaps, concentration of radioactive material to a "critical mass" (which is really dealing with the subatomic). That is, I can take a piece of uranium, shake it, pour chemicals on it, hit it with a hammer, and heat it white hot, but the radioactivity is totally unaffected. I cannot jar loose, or glue tight, even one proton. True? So, what plant can neutralize radioactivity? How? Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio, zone 5 From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!csus.edu!beach.csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Tue Feb 23 21:40:55 EST 1993 Article: 13937 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!csus.edu!beach.csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Nut orchard Ref. Message-ID: From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 16:57:10 GMT References: <1mbb9qINN9d0@shelley.u.washington.edu> Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 19 kcarroll@stein.u.washington.edu writes: > Can anyone suggest good titles, ref. books for nut trees that do well in the > Pacific Northwest? > > kris carroll I'd recommend the SUNSET WESTERN GARDEN BOOK and their FRUITS, NUTS, AND BERRIES book. Also, the Northwoods and Raintree Nurseries both provide informative catalogs, geared to Northwest growers. RAINTREE NURSERY 391 Butts Road Morton, WA 98356 (206)496-6400 NORTHWOODS RETAIL NURSERY 27635 S. Ogleby Rd. CANBY, OR 97013 (503) 266-5432 Both companies concentrate on fruits, nuts, and berries. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!csus.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Tue Feb 23 21:42:18 EST 1993 Article: 13939 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!csus.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Lime or Message-ID: From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 17:20:59 GMT References: <1993Feb23.091419.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 10 I don't know where you are looking, but the two Northwest catalogs I mentioned in answer to a question about Northwest nut growing information offer the trees. However, I'd think you'd be better off ordering from your coast; otherwise, the shipping charges might be as much as the tree. An old (ten year) Ortho book on growing Fruits an berries has some companies that might have what you are looking for. I can't vouch for whether or not they still exist ofr not. Bountiful Ridge Nurseries, Inc., Box 250, Princess Anne, MD 21853 Oh, you might also check the back of the ORTHO or HP book on citrus. The books are more current and they do have suppliers in the back. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sono!miklg Tue Feb 23 21:43:37 EST 1993 Article: 13946 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sono!miklg From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman ) Subject: Re: Old Fashioned Lawn Mower Message-ID: <1993Feb23.170215.320@acuson.com> Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California References: <1993Feb17.191131.2091@VFL.Paramax.COM> <1993Feb19.022001.10696@nicmad.uucp> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 17:02:15 GMT Lines: 15 I got mine at Home Depot. They had two types. I tried them in the store and the more expensive one (~$30) seemed worth the extra money. Thanks for the question. The other answers were very helpful and informative. - Michael Goldman -- No man ever said on his deathbed, "I wish I had spent more time on my business"--Senator Paul Tsongas Disclaimer: All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson. or [miklg@acuson.com] From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!cv3.cv.nrao.edu!cv3.cv.nrao.edu!fschwab Tue Feb 23 21:43:59 EST 1993 Article: 13947 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!cv3.cv.nrao.edu!cv3.cv.nrao.edu!fschwab From: fschwab@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Fred Schwab) Subject: Re: Wanted; weeping purple plum In-Reply-To: jon@umcc.ais.org's message of 23 Feb 1993 19: 34:08 GMT Message-ID: Sender: news@nrao.edu Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory References: <1mdu7gINN9ll@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 00:46:56 GMT Lines: 6 The catalog from Northwoods Retail Nursery (27635 S. Oglesby Rd., Canby, OR 97013; ph. 503-266-5432) lists "Weeping Santa Rosa Plum" ($19.50) which is described as: a "very ornamental weeping tree. Easy to keep small (8'). Fruits are large and cone shaped ...". From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Wed Feb 24 23:55:26 EST 1993 Article: 13960 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: New Cayenne Pepper Message-ID: <11.2b8aacb3@axolotl> Date: 22 Feb 93 18:20:52 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 24 NEW CAYENNE PEPPER AVAILABLE A new cayenne pepper ideal for home gardeners who want a compact, high-yielding variety for their chili and other spicy foods has been released by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The new pepper has been named CHARLESTON HOT and is resistant to all four known races of southern root knot nematode. It only grows to about 18-inches tall, is very colorful, and produces about 2 pounds of fresh peppers (134 to 150 pods) per plant. The peppers changes colors as it ripens. It begins yellow-green, changes to golden yellow, bright orange, and finally to a deep red when it matures. At maturity, the pepper is about 4-inches long and is very hot. Charleston Hot can be grown almost anywhere in the United States. LIMITED amounts of seed are available to breeders and gardeners. Just write to Philip D. Dukes, U.S. Vegetable Laboratory, 2875 Savannah Highway, Charlestown, SC 29414-5334; telephone (803) 556-0840, fax (803) 763-7013. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Wed Feb 24 23:56:52 EST 1993 Article: 13960 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: New Cayenne Pepper Message-ID: <11.2b8aacb3@axolotl> Date: 22 Feb 93 18:20:52 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 24 NEW CAYENNE PEPPER AVAILABLE A new cayenne pepper ideal for home gardeners who want a compact, high-yielding variety for their chili and other spicy foods has been released by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The new pepper has been named CHARLESTON HOT and is resistant to all four known races of southern root knot nematode. It only grows to about 18-inches tall, is very colorful, and produces about 2 pounds of fresh peppers (134 to 150 pods) per plant. The peppers changes colors as it ripens. It begins yellow-green, changes to golden yellow, bright orange, and finally to a deep red when it matures. At maturity, the pepper is about 4-inches long and is very hot. Charleston Hot can be grown almost anywhere in the United States. LIMITED amounts of seed are available to breeders and gardeners. Just write to Philip D. Dukes, U.S. Vegetable Laboratory, 2875 Savannah Highway, Charlestown, SC 29414-5334; telephone (803) 556-0840, fax (803) 763-7013. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org From samba!concert!theo!kk Wed Feb 24 23:57:15 EST 1993 Article: 13968 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!theo!kk From: kk@mcnc.org (Krzysztof Kozminski) Subject: Phototropism Message-ID: <1993Feb24.143026.18912@mcnc.org> Organization: MCNC Center for Microelectronics, RTP, NC Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 14:30:26 GMT Lines: 26 I am curious if anybody out there knows what are the usual and customary rates of phototropic response of seedlings. A couple days ago, I observed something that caught me by surprise. I got a bunch of seedlings (Arisaema flavum, in case it matters) recently germinated. They sit on a windowsil with eastern exposure, so all they get during most of the day is scattered light, and they grew merrily upright without problems On the second or maybe third day after they germinated I had my desk lamp turned on (18 watt fluorescent) for maybe an hour or two. At some point I looked at the seedling tray, and all of the 2-inch tall green guys were pointing at the lamp. So I swung the lamp over them, and some 45 minutes later, maybe an hour, they adjusted and were pointing at the bulb again. We're talkin here ~45 degree angle change ... This beats all I've seen before - most of the other seedlings I grow on windowsils need to be turned maybe once every two days, and even those two days are not enough to induce a very significant lean towards the sun. So, are my arisaemas unusual in the respect of their phototropism or what? Curiously yours, KK -- "Limit congressmen to two terms. One in office. One in jail." From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!moroney Wed Feb 24 23:58:19 EST 1993 Article: 13999 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!moroney From: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Beekeeping Message-ID: Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA References: <1993Feb24.004549.29430@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 02:16:45 GMT Lines: 15 dak1@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (darren.a.kall) writes: >Doe anyone out there keep bees? Is there a net group that >beekeepers write to? >I'm getting my first hive this April and just wanted >to talk to some people interested in the same thing. I do not believe there is an actual newsgroup, but there is a mailing list. Send a mail message to listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu with the body of the message consists of one line: "SUBSCRIBE BEE_L " -Mike (who had bees in the roof of my barn convince me to try beekeeping, although unable to move/save that colony) From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!duanej Fri Feb 26 15:41:42 EST 1993 Article: 14005 of rec.gardens From: duanej@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Duane Jacobson) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 22:13:30 GMT Subject: cash crop Message-ID: <9880052@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!duanej Newsgroups: rec.gardens Lines: 6 Does anyone have references, or experiences to share, pertaining to growing fruits/vegetables as a cash crop on a small farm? Related organizations or periodicals? ( I know about the "Growing for Market" newsletter.) I'm talking about a part-time venture here, and would guess that 5-10 acres would be plenty to keep one busy, yes? From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!psmith Fri Feb 26 15:44:29 EST 1993 Article: 14046 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!psmith From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) Subject: Re: Herbicides, Pesticides???? Message-ID: Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University References: <1993Feb25.150944.11186@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 14:36:55 GMT Lines: 30 In <1993Feb25.150944.11186@iscsvax.uni.edu> westendorf@iscsvax.uni.edu writes: >My husband and I are planning on selling vegetables at a farmers market this >summer. We would like to keep things as organic as possible, but being >realistic (time is a problem) I realize some chemicals might have to be used. >Does anyone out there know of ways to minimize chemicals and if I have to use >chemicals, how to mix and what kind to use on the crops. We are planning to >raise mostly tomatoes, beans, watermelon, cantelope and cucumbers. We might >need something to keep the squash bugs away. Any ideas. Thanks alot. >Mary I grown organically (100%), so I can only pass along non-chemical (I hate that term 'cause it isn't accurate) tips. First, get a good organic encyclopedia like "Organic Plant Protection" (Rodale press). If you're at all like me you'll experience cucumber beetle problems (my biggest headache with melons/cukes/cantelope). Start plants indoors if possible, plant radishes right in hills with plants, use rotenone if you want an "organic" pest deterrent and mulch heavily around the plants. I don't know why, but I keep hearing that cucumber beetles are discouraged by mulching. I'll keep my suggestions to that pest. Hopefully others will post re: some of the other plants and problems. Good Luck! From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!think.com!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller Fri Feb 26 15:46:42 EST 1993 Article: 14048 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!think.com!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Subject: Re:Seaweed use in outdoor gardens... Message-ID: <1993Feb26.145618.14159@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Sender: news@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 14:56:18 GMT Lines: 38 > I have a question regarding the use of seaweed in gardens, > (outdoors). I would like to know if anybody actually uses > seaweed in their gardens, and what methods they use. > eg: Do you chop it up first? Lay it on top or dig it in the > ground? > Thanks very much for any help/advice anybody may have/provide. > > David Scott & Helen Neiring who wrote "Living the Good Life", used seaweed (primarily rock-weed) as their major fertilizer source for years (they did not believe in 'enslaving' animals and so would not use manure, but that's another story). I believe they used some of it as mulch and composted some with oak leaves and pine needles for their blueberries. They lived on the coast of Maine. Whether one needs to chop it first or not depends on the type of seaweed. Most seaweed is pretty low (lacking?) in celulose so it will rot much faster and more completely than, say, sunflower or maize stems. I believe that the Faroe and/or Aran islanders used seaweed to create soil in bedrock pockets in order to grow potatoes. I have used lake weed for several years to mulch my garden. It's much stiffer than seaweed but rots down quite fast and any that is left at the end of the winter gets dug in when I turn my garden in the spring. I particularly like using lake weed because I think of it as killing two birds with one stone, I gain great mulch for my garden while removing nutrients from the lake, and I get to wade around chest deep in the lake during the hottest weather when I don't much like gardening anyway. :') :') --Jill -- A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | Miller Microcomputer Services | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!well!kjp Sat Feb 27 00:56:30 EST 1993 Article: 14056 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!well!kjp From: kjp@well.sf.ca.us (Karen Paulsell) Subject: Re: Herbicides, Pesticides???? Message-ID: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link References: <1993Feb25.150944.11186@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 18:10:41 GMT Lines: 18 Another book that you might want to have available as a reference: Common-Sense Pest Control by Olkowski, Daar, and Olkowski, from Taunton Press, (c) 1991, ISBN 0-942391-63-2. I've used nothing but insecticidial soaps, bacillus thurengensis, and Tree-Tanglefoot in my small urban garden for 4+ years. I have a mad diversity of flowers, always, to help provide food for the many beneficial insects that control pests. And when pests arrive, I try to give the beneficial bugs a chance before I consider even the least-harmful alternatives. The Rodale-Press books, and Common-Sense Pest Control, and other good books on non-chemical solutions can help you control outbreaks of particular pests, while building the long-term health of your garden. Best of luck, and I hope you let us know about your situations and successes. From samba!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat Feb 27 00:57:28 EST 1993 Article: 14059 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Making cut flowers last longer Message-ID: <1993Feb26.122522.11209@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 26 Feb 93 12:25:22 -0600 References: <1993Feb25.094638.2517@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> Distribution: world Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 24 In article <1993Feb25.094638.2517@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu>, troberts@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes: > What can I do to keep cut flowers fresh in a vase (particularly roses, > irises, narcissuses)? Is there a water treatment? I live in Washington, > D.C., and the tap water here is pretty good. The secret is to _condition_ the flowers after cutting. Cut the flowers, then take them to the kitchen sink and fill the sink with warmish water (baby bath water temp). With the cut ends of the stem under water, slice off another inch of stem with a _sharp_ knife or single-edged razor blade. Not scissors or secateurs. Immediately place the recut stem into a deep vase of warmish water, and then place the vase in a cool area (basement or not too-terribly cold refrigerator) for 12-24 hours. Then you can make your arrangement. Floral preservatives like FloraLife help, or you can substitute 1/4 cup lemon-lime soda (generic 7-up) (NOT DIET!) + 1 tsp chlorine bleach per quart of water for the FloraLife. The sugar in the soda helps feed the flowers as their own reserves are exhausted, and the bleach keeps the fungal and bacterial growth down. Don't forget to top up the water at least every day, and recut the ends and place in fresh FloraLife or substitute every 2-3 days. Kay Klier From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!ccsvax.sfasu.edu!f_griffith Sat Feb 27 00:58:35 EST 1993 Article: 14060 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!ccsvax.sfasu.edu!f_griffith From: f_griffith@ccsvax.sfasu.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: newsletter Message-ID: <1993Feb26.112833.3154@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> Date: 26 Feb 93 11:28:33 CST Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University Lines: 40 Some people are interested in gardening as a means of becoming more self sufficient as a response to societal and economic problems. Thus, some may be interested in the "Coping with Turbulent Times" newsletter which is beginning publication. For a free prelimi- nary issue, send a long, stamped addressed envelope to: Coping with Turbulent Times c/o III, Box 4630 SFA Sta., Nacogdoches TX 75962. Or send your U.S. mail address to me (INTERNET: F_GRIF- FITH@ccsvax.sfasu.edu) and I'll have a copy sent to you. The "Coping with Turbulent Times" theme, as may be evident from the title, is that the times we live in bring many problems and that there are lots of things we can do to be better prepared to meet them. Here's a summary of the content: Our Turbulent Times. This section covers the problems that make our times turbulent. It includes essays on some of the problems and current bits of information. Economic Outlook. Including: Brief discussion of how the economy looks currently, write-ups on how to judge or analyze the economy. Thinking about the Times. Ideas on clear thinking, world- views, media bias, scenarios, etc. Finances. Discussions of analyzing your financial position, improving your position, possibly some ideas on investing. Physical Preparation. Suggestions for what is needed in the way of skills, physical fitness, diet, health, food etc. storage, water, utilities, gardening, etc. to be prepared for the times. Working with Others. Topics such as family relationships, co-ops, neighborhood groups, political activism, etc. Resources. Reviews and sources of books, magazines, newslet- ters, etc. (possibly sources of goods too). From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius Sat Feb 27 10:48:19 EST 1993 Article: 14071 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius From: Bob Klebba Subject: Re: Seaweed use in outdoor gardens... Message-ID: <1993Feb27.011246.23238@nicmad.uucp> Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp Nntp-Posting-Host: mac11 Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <1993Feb23.172740.11458@ac.dal.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1993 01:12:46 GMT Lines: 31 In article <1993Feb23.172740.11458@ac.dal.ca> , cher@ac.dal.ca writes: >I have a question regarding the use of seaweed in gardens, >(outdoors). I would like to know if anybody actually uses >seaweed in their gardens, and what methods they use. >eg: Do you chop it up first? Lay it on top or dig it in the >ground? I used to use lake weeds (mostly millefoil) when I lived on the isthmus in Madison Wisconsin. They were harvested by the county and deposited in my yard in 10 cubic yard quantities. I could only deal with it once a season, but I found I had to be very attentive to the huge rotting pile of algae. It decomposes anaerobically very fast and should not be composted in the city. Lake weeds tend to have a lot of little fish and crustaceans in them as well which contribute to lake weeds' being a potential health hazard. I spread the lake weeds around in the garden and used them as mulch. I tried to get them to dry out as quickly as possible. I still found that maggots infested some of the dense and wet pockets. Nevertheless, I have never used a better mulch before or since. It is full of nutrients and decomposes to a beautiful humus by the end of the season. It has the added advantage of carrying no weed seeds. If you're going to use a lot of algae in the garden, talk to your neighbors to let them know the smell won't last forever! Bob Klebba Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4 Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu "Feed the soil, not the plant" From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsi!dak1 Sat Feb 27 21:27:05 EST 1993 Article: 13958 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsi!dak1 From: dak1@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (darren.a.kall) Subject: Beekeeping Organization: AT&T Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 00:45:49 GMT Message-ID: <1993Feb24.004549.29430@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> Lines: 9 Doe anyone out there keep bees? Is there a net group that beekeepers write to? I'm getting my first hive this April and just wanted to talk to some people interested in the same thing. darren kall dak@hocpb.att.com From samba!concert!theo!kk Sat Feb 27 21:27:41 EST 1993 Article: 13968 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!theo!kk From: kk@mcnc.org (Krzysztof Kozminski) Subject: Phototropism Message-ID: <1993Feb24.143026.18912@mcnc.org> Organization: MCNC Center for Microelectronics, RTP, NC Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 14:30:26 GMT Lines: 26 I am curious if anybody out there knows what are the usual and customary rates of phototropic response of seedlings. A couple days ago, I observed something that caught me by surprise. I got a bunch of seedlings (Arisaema flavum, in case it matters) recently germinated. They sit on a windowsil with eastern exposure, so all they get during most of the day is scattered light, and they grew merrily upright without problems On the second or maybe third day after they germinated I had my desk lamp turned on (18 watt fluorescent) for maybe an hour or two. At some point I looked at the seedling tray, and all of the 2-inch tall green guys were pointing at the lamp. So I swung the lamp over them, and some 45 minutes later, maybe an hour, they adjusted and were pointing at the bulb again. We're talkin here ~45 degree angle change ... This beats all I've seen before - most of the other seedlings I grow on windowsils need to be turned maybe once every two days, and even those two days are not enough to induce a very significant lean towards the sun. So, are my arisaemas unusual in the respect of their phototropism or what? Curiously yours, KK -- "Limit congressmen to two terms. One in office. One in jail." From samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!psmith Sat Feb 27 21:28:37 EST 1993 Article: 13969 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!psmith From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) Subject: Re: giant pumpkin Message-ID: Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University References: <1993Feb23.160813.5670@informix.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 14:32:37 GMT Lines: 48 In <1993Feb23.160813.5670@informix.com> stevek@providence (Steven Klitzing) writes: >Several years ago, I grew a giant pumpkin plant called 'Big Moon'. They >weren't kidding when they named it that. I had a 6' by 4' planting space >with lots of additional space for the vines to ramble. I prepared the >soil by dumping two 90 lb. sacks of steer manure into the soil, creating a >mound. I planted the seeds in the soil, knowing they would eventually tap >into the steer manure underneath it. When the seeds sprouted, I thinned >them down to the healthiest-looking plant. And from then on, I watered it >every day. The bigger a pumpkin plant gets, the more you have to water >it. So I soaked it every day. When the leaves droop, you better water it >quickly. In addition, during the growing season, I also used chemical >vegetable fertilizer on top of the soil, working it in a handful about >every three weeks or so. The results I got were amazing. >The plant bore 6 fruit. One was so heavy, two men couldn't lift it. It >tipped the scales at over 250 lbs. It was about 3 1/2 feet tall with pink >orange flesh and was so big it had to be carried in a wheel barrow. Two >other fruit came in at 150 and 125 lbs. The last three fruit wieghed >about 90 lbs. each. If I had cut off all the fruit except one, I'm sure >the one pumpkin would have been unbelievable. >I don't know if Atlantic Giant gets as big as Big Moon. I suspect, >though, that Big Moon has some Hungarian Mammoth Green Squash in its >genetic line, because Big Moon's color is not pure orange like other >Pumpkins. Anyway, to those of you who are growing Pumpkins this year, >have fun and good luck! That's very interesting, as I've never heard of Big Moon. Where did you get the seed from? The only contest pumpkins I have heard of around here were Atlantic Giant. Although you can find Big Max and Prizewinner varieties available up here, Atlantic Giant is the one all the seed catalogues carry as their contest-type pumpkin. It, like Big Moon, doesn't usually have very good colour. Prizewinner, on the other hand, has a beautiful reddish/orange colour. I think the winner for the last several years internationally has been an Atlantic Giant. I think the record is between 800-900 lbs. Someone also told me that there is a standing prize of $10,000(?) awaiting the first person to hit half a ton. I think that is from the interational pumpkin federation. So get growing! You might be rich next fall. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat Feb 27 21:29:19 EST 1993 Article: 13975 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: pOISONOUS PLANTS LIST Message-ID: <1993Feb24.123305.11149@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 24 Feb 93 12:33:05 -0600 References: <1993Feb21.152414.11044@iscsvax.uni.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 10 In article , richter@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) writes: > Where did this list come from, or is it your own compilation? Alas, the attribution somehow parted company with the text in uploading the file. It was stolen from Kingsley Stern's Introductory Plant Biology, 5th ed. Wm. C. Brown Co. It's one of the best beginning botany texts with a strong slant toward gardening that I know of. The information in the appendices is particularly useful for gardeners. Kay From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!hexnut!billmc Sat Feb 27 21:30:10 EST 1993 Article: 13976 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!hexnut!billmc From: billmc@microsoft.com (Bill McJohn) Subject: Annuals Message-ID: <1993Feb23.195103.1277@microsoft.com> Date: 23 Feb 93 19:51:03 GMT Organization: Microsoft Corp. Lines: 31 Now that I have finally tracked down the book, the article to which it is relevant has, of course, expired. Anyhow, anyone who is interested in growing a variety of annual flowers might look at: The Harrowsmith Annual Garden Jennifer Bennett and Turid Forsyth Camden House Publishing: Camden East, Ontario 176 pages, with color illustrations It's a colorful and interesting book. The first chapter discusses designing and preparing the garden; the second, sowing seed and raising transplants. The remainder of the book covers about 150 (very rough estimate) annual flowers, giving descriptions and cultural information, with color photographs of most of the flowers. The style is chatty, which makes it pleasant to read but difficult to use as a reference. I'm also not fond of the organization--separate chapters on short, tall, sun-loving, shade-loving, fragrant, etc. So if a plant happens to be tall, fragrant and sun-loving, where do I look? As a final blow, each chapter is alphabetical by common name of the commonest member of the genus--this means the flowers I call Bachelor's Buttons, Sweet Sultan, and Giant Sweet Sultan all show up as Cornflower in the medium-to-tall chapter. I like this book a lot; it's fun to read, pretty to look at, very encouraging, and quite informative, and will introduce the gardener to a wide variety of interesting plants. Bill McJohn From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat Feb 27 21:35:18 EST 1993 Article: 13988 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Wanted; weeping purple plum Message-ID: <1993Feb24.175044.11158@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 24 Feb 93 17:50:44 -0600 References: <1mdu7gINN9ll@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 11 In article <1mdu7gINN9ll@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>, jon@umcc.ais.org (Jon Zeeff) writes: > I'm looking for a weeping purple plum tree. Has anyone seen a source for > them (probably mail order, although in Michigan would be ok). >From the Lake County Nursery catalog (5052 South Ridge Rd, Perry, OH 44081-0122; 216 259-5571 Prunus serrulata 'Shirofugen': Shirofugen flowering cherry (bronze-green foliage, spreading shape) From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bj368 Sat Feb 27 21:55:11 EST 1993 Article: 14000 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bj368 From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: ALCHEMY IN THE GARDEN Date: 25 Feb 1993 03:02:45 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1mhcsmINN6a2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu Heyy....it COULD happen! Judy Tenuta -- Sir, I admit your gen'ral rule That every poet is a fool; But you yourself may serve to show it, That every fool is not a poet. A. Pope From samba!concert!gatech!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!stein.u.washington.edu!bbeer Sat Feb 27 21:56:37 EST 1993 Article: 14002 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!stein.u.washington.edu!bbeer From: bbeer@stein.u.washington.edu (Bob Beer) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: info on growing carniverous plants Date: 25 Feb 1993 03:29:38 GMT Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 54 Message-ID: <1mhef2INN49f@shelley.u.washington.edu> References: <9024.29421@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Feb22.233515.22378@pony.Ingres.COM> <1mhd7qINN3d2@shelley.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu I am too exhausted to write it all over again, but I will tomorrow. Let me just put in quickly that there is a CP listserv group. To subscribe, send a message to "listserv@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com" consisting of the one-line command: "SUB CP John Doe". Substitute your own given name for "John Doe". You can get a summary of other commands by sending the message "HELP" to the above address. A quick summary of what I had written: Darlingtonia - not so hard as long as you keep the roots cool. Either pour water through the pot once or twice a day, or put ice cubes on the surface on really hot days. Some water motion each day really helps. You can also grow them in white styrofoam coolers - this also helps. Another person I know grows them in a 20 gallon long aquarium in 8 inches of live sphagnum. The aquarium is propped up about 1/2 inch on one end, and water is kept in motion with plastic tubing and a cheapo aquarium pump. He has great success. He grows them in part shade (they, unlike Sarracenias, can take less sun), thereby keeping the root temperature down. Cephalotus - pretty easy, but *don't* grow on tray system. They will rot easily that way. Just keep them moist. Bright sun gives better coloration, but they will also grow in fairly low light. Many insects are not attracted to them - there is no sugar secretion. Certain ants go nuts over them though. Try carpenter ants! :) Sarracenia - lots of water during growing season, be careful of mold in the winter. Keep cool and just moist at that time. S. minor giant form grows in about a foot of water or more (yep, the crown is a foot or more underwater). Pinguiculas and sundews - these have many different cultural methods, depending on the region they come from. Most (but not all) sundews like bright light when in growth. Most pings cannot take full sun. Be sure and learn the dormancy requirements on these. Adrian Slack also has another book - Insect-Eating Plants and How to Grow Them. Out of print, but still available from some dealers. Probably the best one. It was put out by University of Washington Press. Cheers' new book has wonderful photos of plants in habitat, but several inaccuracies and partial information in cultural requirements. Beware. There is an International Carniverous Plant Society which publishes a quarterly newsletter. Information from the Fullerton Arboretum, California State University at Fullerton, California. This is really valuable - in addition to good articles written for beginners as well as plant physiologists, there is also a seed bank and want ads. That's all for now! Bob From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 Sat Feb 27 21:58:14 EST 1993 Article: 14007 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Lychees, and how to grow them (?) Date: 25 Feb 1993 11:51:45 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 32 Message-ID: <1mibshINNo3i@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1993Feb24.095441.1@molbiol.ox.ac.uk> Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, rpgrant@molbiol.ox.ac.uk () says: >Hello gardening-type folks! Being a plant-lover but living in a flat with a >tiny window, I have to make do.... >A month or so ago I had some lychees and planted 5 stones in some potting >compost with some Phostrogen, kept them warmand moist, and much to my surprise, > two of the stones have sent out roots. I didn't expect to get this far... >so, does anyone have any ideas of what I should do next?!!? ie growth >conditions, drainage, etc. And, what does a lychee plant look like ?? 8-() >I'd appreciate email as I might not have time to keep up with this group. >Many thanks from Bluebell-land, >Richard >-- >R. P. Grant <>< rpgrant@molbiol.ox.ac.uk >Sir William Dunn School of Pathology Fax. +44 865 275556 >University of Oxford, UK. Tel. +44 865 275 Unless you have access to a BIG tropical greenhouse, or at least semi-tropical, you shouldn't expect your lychee trees to do very well for very long. They cannot tolerate temperatures below freezing. They also require a good bit of sunshine year round. They need constant moisture, but the soil should be very well drained. Lychee trees also get quite large, 15-20 feet. Maybe you can keep it small through pruning. J. Del Col -- Jeff Del Col * DECONSTRUCTION--- the critical method invented A-B College * by Procrustes Philippi, WV * * From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!sgigate!olivea!gossip.pyramid.com!pyramid!infmx!news Sat Feb 27 22:00:18 EST 1993 Article: 14014 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!sgigate!olivea!gossip.pyramid.com!pyramid!infmx!news From: stevek@providence (Steven Klitzing) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Carnivorous plants Message-ID: <1993Feb25.160039.4416@informix.com> Date: 25 Feb 93 16:00:39 GMT Sender: news@informix.com (Usenet News) Organization: Informix Software, Inc. Lines: 63 I think carnivorous plants are fascinating and a great deal of fun to grow. Here's my experience and luck with them: Venus Fly Traps Easy to grow on the window sill. If you have some kind of clear container over them, this will provide the humidity they like. And they will flower and set seed which you can plant and grow new fly traps. Nepenthes Khasiana I've grown these from seed and from tiny plants that I got from Peter Paul's nursery in Canandaigua New York. Most of the seeds didn't sprout(they were Purchased from Park Seed when they carried them). I had them planted in a clear jar filled with damp peat Moss on my window sill. The ones that sprouted had slipped down the side of the jar, between the peat moss and the glass side of the jar, and had sprouted on the side that was AWAY FROM DIRECT SUNLIGHT. The humidity in the jar helped speed sprouting. Also, any moss or fungus that would kill the seeds stayed on top of the surface of the peat moss. I moved the seeds to their own peat moss containers where they grew rapidly into small plants. Nepenthese Khasiana loved heat and moisture. It grew bigger pitchers every time I fed the pitchers ants. However, when I fed the larger pitchers flies, a bad thing happened. Some type of worms or maggots sprouted in the pitchers and they started eating up the plant. Apparently, they were immune to the fluid inside the pitchers. Other insects, other than flies, made good food for the plants. I've heard you can also use egg whites but have never tried this. Cephalotus Folicularis (an Australian Pitcher plant bought through Peter Pauls) This plant was fascinating with wicked and colorul toothed maws on the pitcher. The main plant grew in peat moss, but needed drainage. You could feed it just about any insect. It also liked heat and humidity. So I built a container around it made of a 1-liter clear plastic coca-cola bottle. This worked well. It also grew on the window sill. Once it was established, it set out new plants on little runners. It also flowered and set seed. The plant is about the size of a silver dollar that sets out a circle or squat pitcher traps. Sundews Not my favorite. They don't like ants. The formic acid in ants seems to give them indigestion. Feed them other tiny bugs. Cogra Lily (Darlingtonia Californica) I have had no luck with these suckers. You'd think they would be easy to grow since they come from bogs in Northern California's Siskoyou Mountains. They just sort of sit there and slowly die when you try to grow them. I don't know what the trick is to growing these. If you want to read some good articles on Carnivorous plants, investigate some of the National Geographic magazine editions from the early 1960's. I believe there's a 1962 edition where they explore the islands of indonesia for carnivorous pitcher plants. It's a pretty neat article and actually shows you how to grow Nepenthes. That's where I learned how to grow them. Have fun! ---Steve From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.uoregon.edu!fp1-dialin-3.uoregon.edu!user Sat Feb 27 22:00:46 EST 1993 Article: 14017 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.uoregon.edu!fp1-dialin-3.uoregon.edu!user From: Pegasus@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Laurie E. W. Brandt) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: International Rose Test Garden Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: 25 Feb 1993 17:10:39 GMT Organization: The Polyhedron Group Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <1minsq$2sf@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: fp1-dialin-3.uoregon.edu In article <1minsq$2sf@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, GE777009@brownvm.brown.edu (jenna cole-steele) wrote: > > I'm looking for information pertaining to the > International Rose Test Garden in Portland Oregon. > > Specifically: a name and address to send snail mail. > Jenna Cole-Steele Rose Garden Washington Park 400 sw Kingston Portland Oregon Ph 503-248-4302 Laurie From samba!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!ogicse!das-news.harvard.edu!das.harvard.edu!hartman Sat Feb 27 22:07:07 EST 1993 Article: 14025 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!ogicse!das-news.harvard.edu!das.harvard.edu!hartman From: hartman@das.harvard.edu (Anthony Hartman) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: using horse manure Message-ID: <1993Feb25.193517.14276@das.harvard.edu> Date: 25 Feb 93 19:35:17 GMT Article-I.D.: das.1993Feb25.193517.14276 References: <19FEB199310121513@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> <19FEB199319282949@scsud.ctstateu.edu> <1993Feb21.153834.11046@iscsvax.uni.edu> Sender: usenet@das.harvard.edu (Network News) Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University Lines: 89 Henry Mitchell, in the latest collection of gardening columns that he wrote at the Washington Post, refers to horse manure in several places. In a piece entitled "Names from the Garden's guest book" he says: A dear person, assisted by another dandy woman, gave me twenty- two plastic trash bags of horse manure for Christmas, and in the last week's mild weather I got it spread on particular treasures in the garden. Ten roses on their arches had first claim, followd by the planting site of ten forthcoming tomato seedlings, then a dab for a crinum that should have bloomed in the summer but didn't, and a handful for the Princesse de Sagan ( a red rose sitting all by herself), and a bucketful for what I hope is a hardy palm. Like youth, horse manure goes all to quickly. Before you've got started good, it's gone and you wonder how it went so fast. In regard to the risk of weeds he says: This is also a fine time [September] to investigate any friends who have cows or horses, since manure is endlessly valuable in the garden. Some people say, "What about weed seeds?" As I could not possibly have more weeds than at present, this is no terror to me. You may have to wait till January to get manure from the country, when the barns start filling up. I never mind the straw mixed with it, considering that straw is as admirable as manure. Many books speak of cow manure, but horse manure is not to be sniffed at, being even better on heavy clay soils. Finally he has a something to offer to the "Gardeners gift" thread a couple months ago. A load of manure is regarded by all gardeners as a sign of almost divine favor. There is plenty of it around, but the trouble is transporting it. A stout plastic bag of manure is a splendid gift. I think a whole load is too much like giving emerald cufflinks -- a bit much, and rather improper, unless you know the gardner well. But a good sackful does not exceed the bounds The book is "One Man's Garden", Houghton Mifflin Company, 1992. The columns are organized by month. They are filled with advice and opinions on a wide variety of topics. He is particularly fond of water gardens and water lillies, but has practical suggestions for most plants found in the border. While much of the more practical advice can be found elsewhere, he has his own voice, and provides an interesting point of view in his aesthetic judgements. For example in discussing the relative beauty of two different gardens, one with a large box bush fronted by white Japanese anemone and a drift of fall crocus, and the other with forsythia, black-eyed Susans and marigolds, he favors the former. Some might argue that no plant is beautiful or ugly in itself, but all depends on how it is used. Those who think so are wrong. It's true that all plants are beautiful in their particular way, and of course it's unarguable that all plants are more beautiful or less beautiful depending on what is around them. Without wishing to enter a metaphysical debate, I will simply say that the first arrangement of garden plants will strike almost anybody as more beautiful than the arrangment of forsythia, black-eyed Susans, and marigolds. That is so even though the second arrangement is flawless in itself. He concludes: Take it as unarguable (and of course it can be argued forever) that box with white anemonies and violet crocuses is more beautiful than forsythias fronted with black-eyed Susans. Further, take it as unarguable that black-eyed Susans are not worth growing. Unless, of course, they remind you of something disreputable that happened one summer when you were seventeen. Which, I am sure, is why people grow them. Can't think of any other reasons. I must admit that I am rather fond of black-eyed Susans which I associate with sunny days in northern Wisconsin, none of which I remember as being very disreputable, sad to say. If anyone is getting sick of winter, this is a good book to help you make it to spring. Tony -- Tony Hartman hartman@harvard.harvard.edu From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!qiclab!therose!postmaster Sat Feb 27 22:08:11 EST 1993 Article: 14029 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!qiclab!therose!postmaster From: Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Victoria lily/ huge water lily Message-ID: <730661128.AA00000@therose.pdx.com> Date: 25 Feb 93 03:04:36 GMT Article-I.D.: therose.730661128.AA00000 Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com Lines: 41 Hello Abraham! 23 Feb 93, Abraham Londt writes to All: AL> I am looking for a source of the victoria lily -Victoria sp.- there are AL> two species and any would do. Do you know of any place from were seed AL> can be obtained or that just grows them. Maybe a botanical garden or so AL> in your area or on the other side of th e world. I can't tell where you are calling from, so I am giving a US address. Slocum Water Gardens 1101 Cypress Garden Blvd. Winter Haven, Florida 33884-1932 (813) 293-7151 Voice (813) 299-1896 FAX Victoria sp. (may be regia) $50.00 Postpaid in the USA. Slocum is a well respected Water Garden supply vendor. Active in the International Water Garden Society. A good place to shop. >::::::::::::::::::::::: William Tricker Inc. 7125 Tanglewood Dr. Independence, Ohio 44131 (216) 524-3491 Voice (216) 524-6688 FAX Victoria tricker (not a recognized sp. to some) $55.00 also Euryale ferox @ $74.00 I have had bad luck with this company. They may do well by you. I have a file of international water garden supply places you can down load from my BBS, The Garden Pond BBS, at 1-503-735-3074. The file is called WGSUPPLY.TXT. Jack From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg Sat Feb 27 22:12:08 EST 1993 Article: 14045 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg From: mg@pacman.WPI.EDU (Martha Gunnarson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: RE: Lingonberries Message-ID: <1ml82j$q2t@bigboote.WPI.EDU> Date: 26 Feb 93 14:05:07 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.wpi.edu Lingonberry plants are available from: St. Lawrence Nurseries R.R.5 Box 324 Potsdam, NY 13676 (315) 265-6739 Lingonberry, S"ussi -- Vaccinium vitis-idaea 3-6" plants $7.50 each "A low-growing (12 in. at maturity) circumpolar, evergreen groundcover closely related to partridgeberry. The berries ripen in August and are red, tart and smaller than cranberries but with a finer flavor. ... thrive in acid upland soils, pH 4-5. Their fragile root systems spread through the superficial soil layer by runners which develop buds and new shoots. S"ussi (patented - Balsgard, Sweden) is the first lingonberry to be bred for size and quantity of fruit. ... Plants are small and slow to establish. They need diligent hand-weeding, mulching, attention to pH, and adequate watering during the first two seasons. Northwoods Retail Nursery 27635 S. Oglesby Rd. Canby, OR 97013 (503) 266-5432 $9.50 each, 4 or more $8.25 each. (no mention of variety.) "For partial shade." Martha Gunnarson Serials Librarian/Cataloger Gordon Library Worcester Polytechnic Institute Worcester, MA 01609 mg@wpi.wpi.edu From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg Sat Feb 27 22:12:42 EST 1993 Article: 14045 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg From: mg@pacman.WPI.EDU (Martha Gunnarson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: RE: Lingonberries Message-ID: <1ml82j$q2t@bigboote.WPI.EDU> Date: 26 Feb 93 14:05:07 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.wpi.edu Lingonberry plants are available from: St. Lawrence Nurseries R.R.5 Box 324 Potsdam, NY 13676 (315) 265-6739 Lingonberry, S"ussi -- Vaccinium vitis-idaea 3-6" plants $7.50 each "A low-growing (12 in. at maturity) circumpolar, evergreen groundcover closely related to partridgeberry. The berries ripen in August and are red, tart and smaller than cranberries but with a finer flavor. ... thrive in acid upland soils, pH 4-5. Their fragile root systems spread through the superficial soil layer by runners which develop buds and new shoots. S"ussi (patented - Balsgard, Sweden) is the first lingonberry to be bred for size and quantity of fruit. ... Plants are small and slow to establish. They need diligent hand-weeding, mulching, attention to pH, and adequate watering during the first two seasons. Northwoods Retail Nursery 27635 S. Oglesby Rd. Canby, OR 97013 (503) 266-5432 $9.50 each, 4 or more $8.25 each. (no mention of variety.) "For partial shade." Martha Gunnarson Serials Librarian/Cataloger Gordon Library Worcester Polytechnic Institute Worcester, MA 01609 mg@wpi.wpi.edu From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!netcomsv!credence!steveh Sat Feb 27 22:13:44 EST 1993 Article: 14050 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!netcomsv!credence!steveh From: steveh@or.credence.com (Steve Holder) Subject: F1 Hybrids Message-ID: <1993Feb26.140705.8370@credence.com> Sender: news@credence.com Nntp-Posting-Host: amazon Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 14:07:05 GMT Lines: 24 I have a question that has been lingering around in the annoyance center of my brain for a few years. How do commercial seed providers maintain parent stock for F1 hybrids? My understanding of the creation of an F1 hybrid is that two or more parent lines are generated through successive inbreeding for desired traits. Then the two lines are cross bred to come up with the F1 seed. It seems to me that eventually one would run out of parent seed stock and that the grower would then have to start over. So, wouldn't this second batch of F1 have the possibility of being different from the first batch? Or are breeder able to control breeding to the extent that they can guarantee the consistency of F1 hybrids? Inquiring minds... Thanks, Steve -- "Well I carry a BIGGA' STICK, and I USE it too. 'WHAM'" - Y. Sam to B. Bunny ********* steveh@or.credence.com ******** From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!mmm.serc.3m.com!mmc.mmmg.com!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv Sat Feb 27 22:16:16 EST 1993 Article: 14064 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!mmm.serc.3m.com!mmc.mmmg.com!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Subject: Re: White Flies Message-ID: <1993Feb26.130844.22428@walter.cray.com> Lines: 39 Sender: gwv@eastrg2 (George Vandenberghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: eastrg2-gate.cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: Date: 26 Feb 93 13:08:44 CST In article , risgreen@cobfac.idbsu.edu@idbsu.edu (Gary I. Green) writes: |> We have started seedlings indoors and have noted white flies have appeared |> on tomato and basil plants. Various chemicals have not controlled these |> little pests. I have noticed that they appear to lay eggs on the bottom |> sides of leaves. I have tried removing the eggs with sticky tape. We |> seemed to have reduced the population, but have not eliminated the white |> flies. Do white flies also lay eggs in the soil? When we transplant, I do |> not wish for the flies to get outdoors and become a serious problem. Any |> recommnedations for those who would prefer organic gardening (the chemicals |> we used included soap solutions, hot peppers, etc.)? Thank you. Gary Try yellow boards covered with sticky grease left near the plants. They are attracted to yellow. I had this problem last year. I have cats and can't use the yellow sticky surface method. I took the plants outside and shook a lot of them off but the eggs (which are only laid on the leaves) kept hatching into new ones. The whiteflies died out in the spring when I took the plants outside; the fact that the spring was unusually cold and rotten probably contributed to their demise. But in 1977 I had a major plague of white flies from an infestation on indoor plants the previous winter. The spring of 1977 was warm and dry. I found that warm wet weather or regular hosing down of the infested plants discouraged them but my crops were still severely damaged that year. Something else you might try is a vacuum cleaner or dustbuster held next to the infested plant. The disturbance makes them fly and they get sucked to their deaths. I have been waiting to try it this winter but so far have no whiteflies (The @#^*^&*()*()_ red spider mites are hitting me this winter) To summarize They only lay eggs on leaves and stems. Spraying with water reduces heavy populations (personal experience). Yes they are a threat this spring. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sun Feb 28 10:34:09 EST 1993 Article: 14076 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: F1 Hybrids Message-ID: <1993Feb27.103541.11232@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 27 Feb 93 10:35:41 -0600 References: <1993Feb26.140705.8370@credence.com> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 35 In article <1993Feb26.140705.8370@credence.com>, steveh@or.credence.com (Steve Holder) writes: > I have a question that has been lingering around in the annoyance > center of my brain for a few years. How do commercial seed providers > maintain parent stock for F1 hybrids? My understanding of the > creation of an F1 hybrid is that two or more parent lines are > generated through successive inbreeding for desired traits. Then the > two lines are cross bred to come up with the F1 seed. Yep, you've got the main ideas. Maintaining parental lines is a very important part of the seed breeding process, with lots of time and energy expended on maintaining the same genetic stocks. Usually this involves growing the parental stocks in locations remote from any other strain of that plant. There are tables of required isolation distances for different types of plants (and different pollinators). Reputable seed companies also maintain a constant check on how the currently used parental strain compares with the originally used strain-- sometimes just visual checks, but more often these days they use isozyme electrophoresis or one of the DNA fingerprint techniques. Another reason why F1 seed is so expensive is that the inbred parents are generally pretty feeble plants from so much inbreeding. So the seed yield is low. You can really see this "inbreeding depression" in the seed corn stocks that are raised around here-- many are kinda mangy and chloritic, and look like putting out a single small ear is almost too much for them. This is in sharp contrast to the gigantic, lush, green F1's with three huge ears per stalk. Seed corn companies (the ones I'm most familiar with) contract with local farmers to produce the F1 seeds, and sometimes the inbred parents. It's a really picky job growing the seed, and the yields are pretty low per acre. Nevertheless, the companies pay a nice bonus for delivering good seed, and seed corn production is much more lucrative than most of the other crops commonly grown here. Kay Klier Biology Dept University of Northern Iowa From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!olivea!apple!ntg!dplatt Mon Mar 1 21:02:04 EST 1993 Article: 14095 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!olivea!apple!ntg!dplatt From: dplatt@ntg.com (Dave Platt) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: F1 Hybrids Message-ID: <1993Mar1.200629.2892@ntg.com> Date: 1 Mar 93 20:06:29 GMT References: <1993Feb26.140705.8370@credence.com> Organization: New Technologies Group, Inc. Palo Alto CA Lines: 73 > I have a question that has been lingering around in the annoyance > center of my brain for a few years. How do commercial seed providers > maintain parent stock for F1 hybrids? My understanding of the > creation of an F1 hybrid is that two or more parent lines are > generated through successive inbreeding for desired traits. My recollection of the genetics is somewhat out of date, so the explanation which follows is certainly oversimplified and may be incorrect in spots... I believe it's more accurate to say that the parent lines are generated through successive inbreeding for desired _genes_, not necessarily _traits_. The F0 (parent) strains are inbred over many generations, and are repeatedly "rogued out" - any plants which vary from a uniform appearance are removed from the gene-pool. After enough generations, the F0 strains become quite homozygous - they have two identical copies of each significant gene. This can (and often does) mean that the F0 strains are rather sickly, or lack otherwise- useful traits. However, they can continue to be inbred and rogued for many generations, without losing their basic character - crossing two F0 plants of the same strain results in the production of offspring which are almost identical to the parents. They aren't clones, but they share some of the same characteristics. > Then the > two lines are cross bred to come up with the F1 seed. Correct. The resulting F1 generation has _one_ copy of each gene-pair from each parent strain... and since the gene-pairs in each strain are usually identical, every F1 plant ends up with the same set of genes. The F1 plants are almost as genetically uniform as the F0 plants... but they have twice as many unique genes (and half as many of each variety as any particular parent). As a result, they benefit from hybrid vigor; they are usually larger, stronger, and more resistant to specific diseases and insects than the F0 strains were. > It seems to me that eventually one would run out of parent seed stock > and that the grower would then have to start over. So, wouldn't this > second batch of F1 have the possibility of being different from the > first batch? Or are breeder able to control breeding to the extent > that they can guarantee the consistency of F1 hybrids? My understanding is that the latter is true. Due to the genetic uniformity of each F0 strain, these strains can be "bred true" for many generations. The same is not true of the F1 generation, though. If you cross two F1 plants... even identical ones... then their complements of genes will recombine pretty much randomly in the F2 generation. Some of the F2 plants will resemble one F0 strain, some will resemble the other F0 strain, most of them will resemble a mismash of the two strains, and very few of them will be as vigorous as the F1 strain (or the original parent strains, before F0 inbreeding was begun). If you want to continue to raise F1 plants of a specific type, you must keep going back to the F0 parent strains and re-crossing them. The F1 strains have the benefit of great uniformity within each type... something which farmers like. However, if a new type of disease or insect evolves which an F1 strain has no resistance to, the ENTIRE crop of that strain may be lost in a single year. This sort of thing has happened - I believe that about 1/3 of the U.S. corn (or wheat??) crop was lost, one year back in the 1970s, when a new strain of rust evolved. It's scary to think that about 75% of the U.S. wheat crop, a couple of years ago, consisted of _six_ specific F1 cultivars. -- Dave Platt VOICE: (415) 813-8917 Domain: dplatt@ntg.com UUCP: ...netcomsv!ntg!dplatt USNAIL: New Technologies Group Inc. 2470 Embarcardero Way, Palo Alto CA 94303 From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!olivea!apple!ntg!dplatt Mon Mar 1 21:02:29 EST 1993 Article: 14095 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!olivea!apple!ntg!dplatt From: dplatt@ntg.com (Dave Platt) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: F1 Hybrids Message-ID: <1993Mar1.200629.2892@ntg.com> Date: 1 Mar 93 20:06:29 GMT References: <1993Feb26.140705.8370@credence.com> Organization: New Technologies Group, Inc. Palo Alto CA Lines: 73 > I have a question that has been lingering around in the annoyance > center of my brain for a few years. How do commercial seed providers > maintain parent stock for F1 hybrids? My understanding of the > creation of an F1 hybrid is that two or more parent lines are > generated through successive inbreeding for desired traits. My recollection of the genetics is somewhat out of date, so the explanation which follows is certainly oversimplified and may be incorrect in spots... I believe it's more accurate to say that the parent lines are generated through successive inbreeding for desired _genes_, not necessarily _traits_. The F0 (parent) strains are inbred over many generations, and are repeatedly "rogued out" - any plants which vary from a uniform appearance are removed from the gene-pool. After enough generations, the F0 strains become quite homozygous - they have two identical copies of each significant gene. This can (and often does) mean that the F0 strains are rather sickly, or lack otherwise- useful traits. However, they can continue to be inbred and rogued for many generations, without losing their basic character - crossing two F0 plants of the same strain results in the production of offspring which are almost identical to the parents. They aren't clones, but they share some of the same characteristics. > Then the > two lines are cross bred to come up with the F1 seed. Correct. The resulting F1 generation has _one_ copy of each gene-pair from each parent strain... and since the gene-pairs in each strain are usually identical, every F1 plant ends up with the same set of genes. The F1 plants are almost as genetically uniform as the F0 plants... but they have twice as many unique genes (and half as many of each variety as any particular parent). As a result, they benefit from hybrid vigor; they are usually larger, stronger, and more resistant to specific diseases and insects than the F0 strains were. > It seems to me that eventually one would run out of parent seed stock > and that the grower would then have to start over. So, wouldn't this > second batch of F1 have the possibility of being different from the > first batch? Or are breeder able to control breeding to the extent > that they can guarantee the consistency of F1 hybrids? My understanding is that the latter is true. Due to the genetic uniformity of each F0 strain, these strains can be "bred true" for many generations. The same is not true of the F1 generation, though. If you cross two F1 plants... even identical ones... then their complements of genes will recombine pretty much randomly in the F2 generation. Some of the F2 plants will resemble one F0 strain, some will resemble the other F0 strain, most of them will resemble a mismash of the two strains, and very few of them will be as vigorous as the F1 strain (or the original parent strains, before F0 inbreeding was begun). If you want to continue to raise F1 plants of a specific type, you must keep going back to the F0 parent strains and re-crossing them. The F1 strains have the benefit of great uniformity within each type... something which farmers like. However, if a new type of disease or insect evolves which an F1 strain has no resistance to, the ENTIRE crop of that strain may be lost in a single year. This sort of thing has happened - I believe that about 1/3 of the U.S. corn (or wheat??) crop was lost, one year back in the 1970s, when a new strain of rust evolved. It's scary to think that about 75% of the U.S. wheat crop, a couple of years ago, consisted of _six_ specific F1 cultivars. -- Dave Platt VOICE: (415) 813-8917 Domain: dplatt@ntg.com UUCP: ...netcomsv!ntg!dplatt USNAIL: New Technologies Group Inc. 2470 Embarcardero Way, Palo Alto CA 94303 From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Fri Mar 5 10:22:41 EST 1993 Article: 14218 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: New KiwiFruit Jourmal Message-ID: <49.2b97303d@axolotl> Date: 04 Mar 93 13:45:00 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 35 It's been strongly suggested to me that the following post did not out onto to the net. So if in fact, it did, my apologies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _KIWIFRUIT ENTHUSIASTS JOURNAL, VOLUME 6_ Now we know why we haven't heard much from Michael Pilarski for a while: he's been VERY busy editing this 192-page treasure trove of kiwi (Actinidia) lore. Michael has topped even his own previous stupendous publishing accomplishments! Among the topics which are briefly addressed (most are covered in great detail!) are kiwis for home gardens, propagation, pollination, organic methods, book reviews, other sources of information, research reports (mainly synopses, similar to research reports in _HortIdeas_), several longer articles (even a complete thesis written on Actinidia arguta!), several letters from amateur kiwi experimenters, marketing tips, and (of course) lists of plant sources. The journal is available from Friends of the Trees Society, P.O. Box 1064, Tonasket, WA 98855, for $17.20 U.S. postpaid in the U.S. and Canada; overseas, the price is $18.70 via surface mail and $29.90 via air mail. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reprinted with permission from the February 1993 _HortIdeas_. Copyright 1993 by Greg and Pat Williams. HortIdeas is $15 (2nd class mail within the USA) for one year (12 issues). For more information or a subscription, write: HortIdeas, 460 Black Lick Road, Gravel Switch, KY 40328, USA. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [NOTE!! I've no connection with the either the publisher or the author of the above Kiwifruit Journal. This has been posted for informational purposes only.] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Fri Mar 5 17:33:57 EST 1993 Article: 14233 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: F1 Hybrids Message-ID: <1993Mar5.125948.11416@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 5 Mar 93 12:59:48 -0600 References: <1993Feb26.140705.8370@credence.com> <1993Feb27.103541.11232@iscsvax.uni.edu> <1993Mar4.154636.23806@ncsu.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 27 In article <1993Mar4.154636.23806@ncsu.edu>, roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON) writes: > > In article <1993Feb27.103541.11232@iscsvax.uni.edu>, klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes: >> Path: taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier >> From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu >> >> Yep, you've got the main ideas. Maintaining parental lines is a very >> important part of the seed breeding process, with lots of time and energy >> expended on maintaining the same genetic stocks. Usually this involves >> growing the parental stocks in locations remote from any other strain of >> that plant. There are tables of required isolation distances for different >> types of plants (and different pollinators). . . . . >> > > I'm interested in what minimum distances would be allowable. Is 100 yards > considered remote enough or are we looking at 1/2 mile? - - Oh yeah - I'm > mainly concerned with pepper and tomato plants or does it also vary within > species? Will check. Don't have the isolation tables at hand. For bee-pollinated crops you need to know the sort of bees you're dealing with, and their ranges. Honeybees stick with one species at a time (and in some cases, one cultivar at a time), while wild bees (which often have larger ranges) may not display much "fidelity" to one species. Kay Klier From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!stoffel Fri Mar 5 17:35:30 EST 1993 Article: 14224 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!stoffel From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Gardening Software Message-ID: <32050@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 5 Mar 93 17:05:26 GMT References: <1n220eINNjh@bnsgd245.bnr.co.uk> Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel) Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC Lines: 22 In rec.gardens, mundy@nnsgs53.lon40.nt.com (Peter Mundy) writes: >My sister is thinking of starting a small business offering >the sevice of designing and laying out private gardens. >This is only intended to be on a small scale, but needs to >include many aspects from general layout / materials through >to plant / flower choices and colours and seasonal planning etc. >Does anyone know if there is any suitable software available >to cover these requirements? (She has a 486 PC Computer). I have a program called "Sprout" from Abracadata which does this for vegetable gardens. It looks like it should be reasonable simple to add other plants to the data base tho'. The version I have is for a Mac, but I'm sure there's a MS-DOS and/or Windows version too. If I can't confirm a DOS source I'll post Abracadata's address/phone # this weekend or Monday at the latest. Cheers - Bill __________________________________________________________________________ Bill Stoffel | CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC |<- x-DTRC | stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil | Code 859 | x-NSRDC | (410) 267-3825 | Annapolis, MD 21402 | x-DTNSRDC (et alia) | _________________________________________________|________________________| From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cx334 Fri Mar 5 17:35:50 EST 1993 Article: 14238 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cx334 From: cx334@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eileen V. Noel) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Pasilla peppers Date: 5 Mar 1993 21:42:45 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1n8hglINN8cb@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu I normally order seeds for pasilla peppers from Horticultural Enterprises in Dallas, TX each year, but this year they are out! Does anyone know another source for pasillas? Pasillas are 4-6 inches long, dark green turning to chocolate brown, cone shaped, and mild. Thanks in advance. I don't know if I can manage without pasillas. Post or e-mail is fine Eileen Noel noel@softdev.slc.paramax.com From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sgi!cdp!libby Sun Mar 7 20:07:25 EST 1993 Article: 14278 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sgi!cdp!libby From: Libby Goldstein Newsgroups: rec.gardens Date: 06 Mar 93 12:33 PST Subject: Re: asparagus and strawberries Message-ID: <1453300127@igc.apc.org> References: Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Nf-ID: #R:CMM.0.90.4.731344983.saari@magnu:-637103845:cdp:1453300127:000:276 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!libby Mar 6 12:33:00 1993 Lines: 5 Asparagus doesn't like ANY competition. It's a heavy feeder and very long lived. Keep it in its very own bed and manure it every winter. Grow your strawberries somewhere else entirely. You'll have to renew them every couple of years and that will really make the"grass" nuts. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!bu.edu!butyng.bu.edu!bailey Sun Mar 7 20:07:45 EST 1993 Article: 14222 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!bu.edu!butyng.bu.edu!bailey From: bailey@butyng.bu.edu (Sherry Bailey) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: "Water, Light and Love" -- book query Message-ID: <111365@bu.edu> Date: 5 Mar 93 15:49:38 GMT Sender: news@bu.edu Followup-To: rec.gardens Organization: Boston University Corp Ed Center Lines: 13 Someone recommended a book she said was called "WAter, Light and Love", a paperback under $10 and fairly new (within last 2 years she thought). It's supposed to be a very comprehensive book on plant propagation, seed starting, etc. I don't have an author or anything and the book does not appear in Books in Print under that title. Does anybody recognize the book who can give me a better clue? Thanks very much! Sherry From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!stoffel Mon Mar 8 22:37:35 EST 1993 Article: 14305 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!stoffel From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Gardening Software Message-ID: <32138@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 8 Mar 93 18:34:08 GMT References: <1n220eINNjh@bnsgd245.bnr.co.uk> <32050@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel) Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC Lines: 23 In rec.gardens, I wrote; >I have a program called "Sprout" from Abracadata which does this for >vegetable gardens. It looks like it should be reasonable simple to add >other plants to the data base tho'. The version I have is for a Mac, >but I'm sure there's a MS-DOS and/or Windows version too. If I can't >confirm a DOS source I'll post Abracadata's address/phone # this weekend >or Monday at the latest. As expected, there is indeed a DOS version as well. Abracadata's address; Abracadata, Ltd. P.O. Box 2440 Eugene, OR, USA 97402 I bought my copy from one of the Mac mail-order outfits. I expect it should also be readily available from the usual DOS sources. Cheers - Bill __________________________________________________________________________ Bill Stoffel | CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC |<- x-DTRC | stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil | Code 859 | x-NSRDC | (410) 267-3825 | Annapolis, MD 21402 | x-DTNSRDC (et alia) | _________________________________________________|________________________| From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Tue Mar 9 09:24:23 EST 1993 Article: 14315 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: lingonberriesRe: Lingonberries Message-ID: <81.2b9c7649@axolotl> Date: 08 Mar 93 18:02:22 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 37 brance@tempus.Kodak.Com (Michael Branciforte) writes: > In article <1993Feb26.144844.25356@mlfarm.com>, ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald > Florence) writes: > |> Ronald D. Erickson writes: > |> > |> Check with the closest Swedish Consulate office. > |> Lingonberries are a Scandinavian treat. > |> > |> Two helpful net readers sent the names of nurseries that carry > |> lingonberries: Northwoods Nursery in Oregon, and Raintree nursery in > |> Morton, Washington. > |> > |> Does anyone have an address, phone number, or fax number for either > |> or > |> both of these nurseries? Thanks. NORTHWOODS NURSERY [CAT - FREE] 28696 S. Cramer Road Molalla, OR 97038 (503) 651-3737 [TELEPHONE] RAINTREE NURSERY [CAT -FREE] 391 Butts Road Morton, WA 98356 (206) 496-5410 [TELEPHONE The above info is from _Gardening by Mail: A Source Book_ by Barbara J. Barton (ISBN 0-395-52280-3), 3rd edition. If you have any corrections to these addresses/tephones numbers, please mail them to me. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!dm Tue Mar 9 22:17:25 EST 1993 Article: 14342 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!dm From: dm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (james.d.mc swain) Subject: Re: favorite seed catalogs Message-ID: <1993Mar10.014350.13895@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T References: <1993Mar9.164114.1@ducvax.auburn.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 01:43:50 GMT Lines: 29 >From article <1993Mar9.164114.1@ducvax.auburn.edu>, by owen@ducvax.auburn.edu: > I just bought a house with a wonderful garden spot; the previous owner > built the house 60+ years ago, and was an avid gardener (some roses over > 50 years old, great fig trees, and on and on). So, for the first time > in 10 years, I've got a garden again! However, I've just moved in, and > am getting a late start this year; it's already too late, or at least > borderline, for many of the things I want to grow. I'll have to rely > on locally available seeds and plants for my initial plantings, but > I'm looking for sources of seeds and plants for later plantings. > > My interests are primarily vegetables and herbs, and I'd like to get > some recommendations on seed/plant catalogs. What are your favorites, > and how do you get them? In the Good Old Days, when I used to garden, > I got a lot of stuff from a place in Oregon that specialized in herbs, > but I can't remember the name; ring any bells? Thanks. > My personal favorite is Pinetree Gardens in New Gloucester, maine. Their number is 207-926-3400. Prices are excellent, service is excellent. Shipping and handling is not outrageous either. I believe Nichols nursery in in oregon. 503-928-9280. There is a FAQ seed catalog list posted here monthly. If I can find the last copy I will send it to you. good luck, dale dm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Wed Mar 10 17:13:43 EST 1993 Article: 14362 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: More on seed starting Message-ID: <1993Mar10.112222.11545@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 10 Mar 93 11:22:22 -0600 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 50 One of the questions that managed to make it through to my email-- apparently some mail messages to me have gone to The Great Bit Bucket In The Sky... Share some with me, please. I would like to start some seedlings indoors. I bought some Jiffy-7s and enlarged them this weekend. I read that the seeds should be kept at 70 degrees. That is not easy to do, is it? Can't I just place them in my house which I try to keep at 68 to 72 degrees? Then, I know after the seedlings emerge, I need to keep them under lights. I planned on using fluorescent lights, held about 2 inches from the plants. Won't that keep them from becoming leggy? Botanist who used to work in a seed testing lab.... Most temperate zone seeds do well at 68-75oF day temps, with a 10-15 degree drop at night. Most will also do well germinating at a +/- constant temp of 65-75oF (somewhere in that range, with temp fluctuations of +/- 5o won't hurt at all.) (Warning: soil temp may be well below room temp-- cooling due to evaporation... 8-) ) I used to start my seeds at home on top of the refrigerator, because it was the warmest spot in the house -- about 75o. I had a fluorescent light that I used to orient the seedlings -- that was about 4" above the trays. After the first true leaves were out, I moved them to a bright S window, temps perhaps 60-65 day, 50 at night, with another fluorescent about 4" above the leaves. Worked OK for me. I transplant into regular 6-paks or 9 paks* or whatever I can get cheap at the two true leaf stage (alternate leaved species) or two pairs of leaves (opposite leaved species). That's a bit later than most people transplant, but I sow seeds thinly, and it is what seems to work best for me. I also set young plants out in the garden ASAP-- I really detest transplanting some poor root-bound seedling into the great outdoors. When I see roots coming out the drain holes, I _definitely_ make time to transplant!!! I'm not too fond of Jiffy 7's or 9's for seedlings, 'cause they take SO much room. I normally sow on sterile potting soil, covering the seeds about 1/8" deep (tiny seeds) or 1/4" deep (marigold size) with milled sphagnum moss, which keeps the area around the seeds moist and kills damp-off fungi. Might check with your local library and see if they have Park's Success with Seeds or Bubel's Seed Starter's Handbook. Both pretty good! Kay From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!quack!pharvey Wed Mar 10 17:15:09 EST 1993 Article: 14368 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: Nitrogen fixing ground cover Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: <2B9C02E3.1381@news.service.uci.edu> <2B9C08C8.1980@news.service.uci.edu> Date: 10 Mar 1993 18:16:32 UTC Lines: 22 In article <2B9C08C8.1980@news.service.uci.edu> eamg052@orion.oac.uci.edu (Matthew Wesley Spitzer) writes: > Is it practical to grow nitrogen fixing plants between the rows of tall > plants (such as peppers, tomatoes, and okra) in my vegetable garden. If it >is, what would be good nitrogen fixers. I have heard about oat grass, rye >grass and clover. Do all of these fix nitrogen? Would any make a good choice? >Are there any other species I should consider? Finally, where could I get >the seeds? Thanks in advance to whomever responds. Understory plants must not compete with the main crop, grasses are very competitive, in fact they are the weediest of weeds. What you want is White Dutch Clover. Harmony Farm Supply, pobox 460, Graton, CA, 95444, 707-823-9125: White Dutch Clover: Use 1 lb/1000 sq.ft., low growing perennial clover recommended for lawns or undersowing in vegetable beds a la Fukuoka "One-Straw Revolution." Must be watered in summer. Rhizo-Koted. $2.99/lb Berseem Clover: Fall and Winter green manure crop, takes 22oF. $2.09/lb Buckwheat: Excellent summer green manure crop. $0.70/lb Calif. Wildflower Mix: $21.75/lb Calif. Native Per. Grass Mix: $10.45/lb All purpose insectary (predators & parasites) blend: $10.85/lb From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spang.Camosun.BC.CA!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!ua024 Fri Mar 12 11:29:45 EST 1993 Article: 14429 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spang.Camosun.BC.CA!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!ua024 From: ua024@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Diane Whitehead) Subject: Re: Books about garden design / landscaping Message-ID: <1993Mar12.042157.2672@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> Sender: news@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Network News) Nntp-Posting-Host: freenet.victoria.bc.ca Reply-To: ua024@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Diane Whitehead) Organization: The Victoria Freenet Association (VIFA), Victoria, B.C., Canada References: <93069.093336WJCMS@CUNYVM.BITNET> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 04:21:57 GMT Lines: 15 John Brooks has a number of books which are full of ideas for many kinds of gardens. Readers' Digest also has a couple of equally pictorial design books. They all have so many pictures I'd like to copy or adapt that each book I have bristles with bookmarks. My favourite design book, however, is almost devoid of pictures. It is The Education of a Gardener, by Russell Page. I must have read it half a dozen times at least. It is not about my style of gardening, my size of property, or even my climate, but I find it deeply inspirational. Because it isn't full of colour pictures, I am able to imagine the gardens he describes. I spent a Christmas cheque on The Gardens of Russell Page, a big colour book by Marina Schinz, but I haven't opened it yet. I suppose I don't want to replace my imaginary gardens. -- From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!infonode!ingr!dazixcon!dlippert Fri Mar 12 23:53:09 EST 1993 Article: 14413 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!infonode!ingr!dazixcon!dlippert From: dlippert@shrooms.ingr.com (Doris Lippert) Subject: RE: Are there plants that reduce indoor air pollutants? Message-ID: <1993Mar11.173522.5868@dazixco.ingr.com> Sender: news@dazixco.ingr.com Nntp-Posting-Host: shrooms Organization: Intergraph Corp. References: <07MAR93.23010925.0045@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 17:35:22 GMT Lines: 43 In article <07MAR93.23010925.0045@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>, Adrian Lau writes: > >In article johore@teal.csn.org (John Orendt) writes: >>Are there plants that reduce indoor air pollutants? >>-- >> >> JOHN ORENDT johore@csn.org .-~~~-, >> O ( ) >> H ( ) >>. >>. >According to Rockwood Gardens Inc.'s catalogue (Ontario, Canada), the >following houseplants has been proven by NASA to filter household air of >various harmful chemicals: >1. Schefflera Arboricola >2. Peace Lily >3. English Ivy >4. White Butterfly Plant >5. Tree Philodendron >6. Dieffenbachia 'Camille' >Sorry, I don't know their Scientific/Common names. I'm merely quoting >from the catalogue. > >Adrian Lau > >From notes I took on article I read somewhere a couple years ago: spider plant and golden pothos - remove formaldehyde (from carpeting...) English ivy - remove benzine (from paint...) peace lily, Gerbera daisy, Chrysanthemum - remove trichloroethylene (from dry cleaning, varnishes...) split leaf philodendron, bamboo, ficus - don't have notes on what they remove Also 1 plant covers about 100 sq. ft. That's all I have. Doris From samba!concert!rock!taco!roberson Sat Mar 13 00:00:43 EST 1993 Article: 14453 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!taco!roberson From: roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON) Subject: Re: ANCHO PEPPERS Message-ID: <1993Mar12.154609.20660@ncsu.edu> Originator: roberson@water1.bae.ncsu.edu Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos References: <111699@bu.edu> <32406@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 15:46:09 GMT Lines: 23 In article <32406@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic Cusanelli) writes: > Message-ID: <32406@oasys.dt.navy.mil> > > Ancho peppers also go by the name of Problano. They are very > easy to grow and grow quite vigorously and provide a good > amount of peppers per plant. Burpee has a good seed that I've > grown before - it's available in their catalogue - but you > can usually find the packets at any retailer that has a large > variety of Burpee seeds. > I just had a recall - The double name ancho vs problano is > because one name referrs to the dried version and one the fresh, > but I don't recall which is which. > I ordered ancho/poblano seeds from Burpee. This is the first time I've tried growing these. (I started the seeds ~3 weeks ago and they sprouted and are doing very nicely btw). When the pepper is fresh it is called poblano and when dried ancho. I understand from Diana Kennedy's 'The Art of Mexican Cooking' that in Mexico peppers have two names, one for fresh and one for dried. (I highly recommend this book.) jim From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!hacgate!oracle!deeds Sat Mar 13 00:06:03 EST 1993 Article: 14473 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!hacgate!oracle!deeds From: deeds@oracle (Deanna J. Deeds) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: A Book Review of Sorts Message-ID: <25493@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> Date: 12 Mar 93 22:00:49 GMT Sender: news@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM Reply-To: deeds@solaria.hac.com Lines: 9 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] I'm currently reading _The Gardener's Eye and Other Essays_ by Allen Lacy. What an inspirational delight! He is quite observant. Mostly contains ornamentals but I guess that's what the book is about: seeing the garden and individual plants and their aesthetic qualities with an artistic eye. Has anyone read any of his other books? -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Deanna J. Deeds deeds@solaria.hac.com From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spruce.pfc.forestry.ca!PFC.Forestry.CA!RWINDER Sat Mar 13 00:09:41 EST 1993 Article: 14476 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spruce.pfc.forestry.ca!PFC.Forestry.CA!RWINDER From: rwinder@PFC.Forestry.CA (Richard Winder) Subject: organics and storage Message-ID: <1993Mar12.182457.8368@spruce.pfc.forestry.ca> Sender: news@spruce.pfc.forestry.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: pfc.pfc.forestry.ca Reply-To: rwinder@PFC.Forestry.CA Organization: Forestry Canada (Pacific Forestry Centre) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 18:24:57 GMT Lines: 11 Does anyone out there know something about the storage properties of organically grown food? Informally, the common wisdom/experience seems to be that organic veggies, etc. keep longer. However, I can't seem to nail down any actual technical proof of this. I would appreciate help from anyone knowing of specific research on storage of organic crops. I'm also interested in specific changes in mineral compostion, secondary compounds, etc. Thanks, -RSW RICHARD WINDER Title: Visiting Fellow Forestry Canada Phone: (604) 363-0600 Victoria, B.C. Internet: RWINDER@A1.PFC.Forestry.CA From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spruce.pfc.forestry.ca!PFC.Forestry.CA!RWINDER Sat Mar 13 00:12:57 EST 1993 Article: 14476 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spruce.pfc.forestry.ca!PFC.Forestry.CA!RWINDER From: rwinder@PFC.Forestry.CA (Richard Winder) Subject: organics and storage Message-ID: <1993Mar12.182457.8368@spruce.pfc.forestry.ca> Sender: news@spruce.pfc.forestry.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: pfc.pfc.forestry.ca Reply-To: rwinder@PFC.Forestry.CA Organization: Forestry Canada (Pacific Forestry Centre) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 18:24:57 GMT Lines: 11 Does anyone out there know something about the storage properties of organically grown food? Informally, the common wisdom/experience seems to be that organic veggies, etc. keep longer. However, I can't seem to nail down any actual technical proof of this. I would appreciate help from anyone knowing of specific research on storage of organic crops. I'm also interested in specific changes in mineral compostion, secondary compounds, etc. Thanks, -RSW RICHARD WINDER Title: Visiting Fellow Forestry Canada Phone: (604) 363-0600 Victoria, B.C. Internet: RWINDER@A1.PFC.Forestry.CA From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Sat Mar 13 09:25:31 EST 1993 Article: 14478 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: favorite seed catalogs Message-ID: <65.2ba19579@axolotl> Date: 11 Mar 93 13:50:06 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 17 owen@ducvax.auburn.edu (Larry Owen) writes: > I just bought a house with a wonderful garden spot; the previous owner [TEXT DELETED > ........................ In the Good Old Days, when I used to garden, > I got a lot of stuff from a place in Oregon that specialized in herbs, > but I can't remember the name; ring any bells? Thanks. CASA YERBA 3459 Days Creek Road Days Creek, OR 97429 For a price list, send a long SASE plus $1, deductible from your first order. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Sun Mar 14 10:17:14 EST 1993 Article: 14489 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: ANCHO PEPPERS Message-ID: <47.2ba2e3eb@axolotl> Date: 13 Mar 93 19:41:50 GMT Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Followup-To: rec.gardens Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Lines: 23 LKEYS@BUPULA.BU.EDU (clementine) writes: > (Organization: BOSTON UNIVERSITY, Pulmonary Center) > I have a superior recipe for vegetarian black bean chili which calls for > ancho > chili peppers. A few years ago I found some, dried, at a grocery store > in the > midwest, but haven't seen them anywhere since. Almost everyone I know > has this > recipe and we're all on the look-out. Has anyone run across such a > pepper in > any of their seed catalogues? I have no idea what it looks like in the > flesh - > rather dark, I suppose, and the flavor of the dried ones I found was > almost > smokey. The Ancho chili is really the dried form of a Poblano pepper. You can get seed for Anchos in the mail-order source. HORTICULTURAL ENTERPRISES [CAT - FREE] P.O. Box 810082 Dallas, TX 75381-0082 From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mcdchg!tellab5!laidbak!ico!carnes Sun Mar 14 10:17:40 EST 1993 Article: 14490 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mcdchg!tellab5!laidbak!ico!carnes From: carnes@ico.isc.com (Steve Carnes) Subject: Re: favorite seed catalogs Message-ID: <1993Mar11.155414.22757@ico.isc.com> Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Boulder CO References: <1993Mar9.164114.1@ducvax.auburn.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 15:54:14 GMT Lines: 17 owen@ducvax.auburn.edu writes: >... but I'm looking for sources of seeds and plants for later plantings. Current favorites: High Altitude Gardens Ketchum ID (208)726-3221 Garden City Seeds Victor MT (406)961-4837 (motto: Lettuce Give Peas a Chance) Johnny's Selected Seeds Albion, ME (207)437-4301 Territorial Seed Co. Cottage Grove, OR (503)942-9547 Bountiful Gardens Willits, CA (707)459-6410 Shepherd's Garden Seeds Torrington, Conn. (203)482-3638 All but the last specialize in short season vegetables. Shepherd's specializes in European heirlooms. -- Steve Carnes carnes@ico.isc.com uucp: {ncar,nbires}!ico!carnes "I prefer a rude vigor to a polished banality." - Utah Philips From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!psmith Mon Mar 15 10:51:33 EST 1993 Article: 14505 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.gardens:14505 rec.gardens:14506 Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!psmith From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) Subject: Re: Death to Earwigs? Message-ID: Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University References: <93072.153351U49654@uicvm.uic.edu> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 12:50:34 GMT Lines: 55 In <93072.153351U49654@uicvm.uic.edu> Susan M. Singler writes: >Does anyone know how to get rid of earwigs? Are there any predatory >insects which kill earwigs? Last year the earwigs ate even the >marigolds. I would prefer a method which targets the earwigs and one >which is non chemical (or at least something not as bad as diazonon). >Thanks in advance. >Sue Singler. Marigolds: I know people who had the same problem, but they weren't sure of their Marigold's origin. For instance, another reader told me that he has tonnes of earwigs but they didn't touch his marigolds (which I believe were French). So I suppose if they are to have any impact one should determine whether they are an old strain that hasn't been too genetically diluted. However, although some people might not have had their marigolds eaten, I have not seen proof that the marigolds dissuaded earwigs from eating something else in the same garden. Praying Mantis: I have seen them eating earwigs, but unless you had a ton of them I doubt they would have a major impact. Birds: this is where my interest lies. I have heard that the wren, being a nocturnal bug eater, is a good one to attract. I am going to put up appropriate bird houses this spring! Traps: I've heard of many, but the ones that I have had success with are very simple. In the evening, put articles with long narrow crawl spaces in the infested garden area (pipes, corrugated cardboard...). When they are finished ravaging for the night the earwigs will enter the hiding places you have laid out. The next morning you have many trapped. When using tubes, I would just wrap them on a patio stone and squash them as they tumbled out (sometimes there are hundreds so I dump them into a cauldron of hot water). For the cardboard, you can either walk on it or burn it. A final trap which works well (I find), is placing a margarin container, semi-buried in the garden. Half fill it with water, and pour a bit of vegetable oil or beer into it to attract the earwigs, and run a bit of oil around the lip of the container to make it slippery. Depending on the infestation, i have caught anywher from a few to 50 in a night in one of these traps. They smell the bait and when they crawl to the lip, they slip in and drown. I'm tired of typing. Good Luck! From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller Mon Mar 15 10:52:19 EST 1993 Article: 14508 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Subject: Re: Death to earwigs Message-ID: <1993Mar15.144339.21475@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Sender: news@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT Distribution: na Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 14:43:39 GMT Lines: 22 > In psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) replies to Susan M. Singler : > Birds: this is where my interest lies. I have heard that the wren, being > a nocturnal bug eater, is a good one to attract. I am going to put up > appropriate bird houses this spring! Don't know where you heard this one. Wrens are definitely NOT nocturnal. They do eat lots of bugs. Most nocturnal birds eat moths and other flying insects. I would put my money on a toad in the garden for the earwigs (and slugs, they LOVE slugs). I've never figured out how to keep one in my garden. Probably too warm and dry. --Jill (the bird-watcher) -- A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | Miller Microcomputer Services | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Mon Mar 15 14:38:22 EST 1993 Article: 14499 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: New Rose Book Message-ID: <71.2ba43503@axolotl> Date: 14 Mar 93 14:14:53 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 28 _MODERN ROSES 10_ More than 16,000 rose cultivars are listed and described briefly in this huge (over 600 pages!) book. It's available for $50 postpaid (in the U.S.) from the American Rose Society, P.O. Box 30,000, Shreveport, LA 71130. Plans are being made to provide computer access to a database containing the information in _Modern Roses 10_, with continuing updates. We'll [HortIdeas] let you know how to "plug into" the database when more details are available. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reprinted with permission from the February 1993 _HortIdeas_. Copyright 1993 by Greg and Pat Williams. HortIdeas is $15 (2nd class mail within the USA) for one year (12 issues). For more information or a subscription, write: HortIdeas, 460 Black Lick Road, Gravel Switch, KY 40328, USA. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [NOTE!! I've no connection with the either the publisher or the author of the _Modern Roses 10_. This has been posted for informational purposes only.] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org OR bob.batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Mon Mar 15 14:39:18 EST 1993 Article: 14500 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: REPOST (Was Re: USDA ARS & "Charleston Hot" Cayenne Peppers) Message-ID: <73.2ba43505@axolotl> Date: 14 Mar 93 16:33:23 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 30 Following is a repost of the info about "Charleston Hot" Cayenne Pepper. This is from an article on page 19 in the February 1993 _Agricultural Research_ magazine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW CAYENNE PEPPER AVAILABLE A new cayenne pepper ideal for home gardeners who want a compact, high-yielding variety for their chili and other spicy foods has been released by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The new pepper has been named CHARLESTON HOT and is resistant to all four known races of southern root knot nematode. It only grows to about 18-inches tall, is very colorful, and produces about 2 pounds of fresh peppers (134 to 150 pods) per plant. The peppers changes colors as it ripens. It begins yellow-green, changes to golden yellow, bright orange, and finally to a deep red when it matures. At maturity, the pepper is about 4-inches long and is very hot. Charleston Hot can be grown almost anywhere in the United States. LIMITED amounts of seed are available to breeders and gardeners. Just write to Philip D. Dukes, U.S. Vegetable Laboratory, 2875 Savannah Highway, Charlestown, SC 29414-5334; telephone (803) 556-0840, fax (803) 763-7013. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org OR bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae Mon Mar 15 22:27:53 EST 1993 Article: 14517 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Phenology (was Mushrooms) Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: <1993Mar7.003439.6569@rigel.econ.uga.edu> <1993Mar10.222125.3566@ntg.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 21:52:02 GMT Lines: 23 In article snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu (John Snyder) writes: >In article <1993Mar10.222125.3566@ntg.com> mboom@ntg.com (Mike Boom) writes: >>can pass along a midwest morel tip I've heard: Look for morels when new >>oak leaves are the size of squirrel's ears. > >That's interesting...My grandad always said to PLANT CORN when the >white oak buds are the size of a squirrel's ear. Does anyone else have more of these items of "folk phenology"? I.e. timing some agricultural or other activity based on the progress of the season as marked by other biological phenomena, such as the state of some wild or cultivated plant, activities of some animal, etc? I'd be interested to hear about more of these. If you can give the geographic area that the saying applies to, it would be helpful. The Canadian winter-hardiness zone maps were prepared partly by determining where a selection of common woody plants were known to survive, or so I've heard. One of the plants was the common lilac. This method is more accurate than the USDA minimum winter temperature zones, but requires a lot more field work. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!blaze.trentu.ca!TrentU.CA!JLINDBERG Mon Mar 15 22:28:23 EST 1993 Article: 14519 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!blaze.trentu.ca!TrentU.CA!JLINDBERG From: jlindberg@TrentU.CA Subject: organicfarms, volunteering Message-ID: <1993Mar15.220224.19657@trentu.ca> Sender: news@trentu.ca (USENET News System) Reply-To: jlindberg@TrentU.CA Organization: Trent University, Peterborough Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 22:02:24 GMT Lines: 1 I ve heard rumours from different people that there are organizations in many different countries that will find an organic farm you can work at in exchange for food and lodging, for a month or two. This sounds like a great way to travel, and learn. I'm especially interested in any kind of permaculture directory. if you know anything about these mystery organizations, please e-mail me something. Thanks a lot. Jeff Lindberg. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!blaze.trentu.ca!TrentU.CA!JLINDBERG Mon Mar 15 22:32:34 EST 1993 Article: 14519 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!blaze.trentu.ca!TrentU.CA!JLINDBERG From: jlindberg@TrentU.CA Subject: organicfarms, volunteering Message-ID: <1993Mar15.220224.19657@trentu.ca> Sender: news@trentu.ca (USENET News System) Reply-To: jlindberg@TrentU.CA Organization: Trent University, Peterborough Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 22:02:24 GMT Lines: 1 I ve heard rumours from different people that there are organizations in many different countries that will find an organic farm you can work at in exchange for food and lodging, for a month or two. This sounds like a great way to travel, and learn. I'm especially interested in any kind of permaculture directory. if you know anything about these mystery organizations, please e-mail me something. Thanks a lot. Jeff Lindberg. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsf.cb.att.com!lenny Mon Mar 15 22:32:47 EST 1993 Article: 14520 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsf.cb.att.com!lenny From: lenny@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (christopher.j.lentz) Subject: Square-Bed Gardening Message-ID: <1993Mar15.222830.4876@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 22:28:30 GMT Lines: 32 I'm just curious after reading about raised beds and such. I read some books that suggested a number of different gardening methods. I too am starting my first garden and was kind of intrigued by this book's suggestion of Square-Bed Gardening. Basically the method involves planting your beds in 4X4 squares. You also plant more plants in the 4X4 plot than you would in a row of equal size. One plot they described looked something like this: BROCOLLI: ----------- | * * * * | | * * * * | | * * * * | | * * * * | ----------- The supposed advantages are: 1) More harvest, less space. 2) Less weeds because the plants crowd out the weeds. Basically I'm curious if anyone has used this successfully or not. Any hints that can be given? Being a novice should I start with something more standard, like rows? ****************************************************************************** * Christopher J. Lentz * These are laws designed to preserve a brain so * * 614-860-7400 * stupid it needs a law to tell it to protect * * lenny@cbcosmos.att.com * itself! -- Jerry Seinfeld on helmet laws. * ****************************************************************************** From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly Tue Mar 16 13:26:00 EST 1993 Article: 14497 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Wanted: Garden Show Reporters! Date: 15 Mar 1993 04:31:25 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 17 Message-ID: <1o10qtINNdvc@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu I was just thinking that it would be a great if everyone would give a 'review' of any upcoming flower shows or garden events that they attend, saying whatever caught your eye, you don't need to give species names or anything. I'd be especially interested in hearing from anyone attending the Santa Barbara Orchid Show, i won't be able to make it this year :( I think it would be fun to hear about what is going on around the country...! Kelly kelly@cco.caltech.edu Zone 10 From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!orion.oac.uci.edu!eamg052 Tue Mar 16 13:28:14 EST 1993 Article: 14535 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!orion.oac.uci.edu!eamg052 From: eamg052@orion.oac.uci.edu (Matthew Wesley Spitzer) Subject: chili catalogs, n-fixing Nntp-Posting-Host: orion.oac.uci.edu Message-ID: <2BA553D4.18182@news.service.uci.edu> Newsgroups: rec.gardens Organization: University of California, Stepford Lines: 13 Date: 16 Mar 93 04:13:08 GMT Thank you to all who responded to my post about nitrogen-fixing ground cover. The consensus of opinion that I received is that Dutch White Clover is the number one choice, with alfalfa running a distant second. Buckwheat is apparently a good soil conditioner, but there is disagreement as to whether it fixes nitrogen. As for my post about Bahamian Goat Peppers, I am somewhat disappointed at the lack of responses. Perhaps this is a question addressed in the FAQ for this group (if it is, could someone tell me where that is available) but if not could some chilihead please post a list of their favorite catalogs for chili seeds? Thank you. Matt Spitzer From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!eng.ufl.edu!nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu!SUSANMC Tue Mar 16 13:30:02 EST 1993 Article: 14546 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!eng.ufl.edu!nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu!SUSANMC From: SUSANMC@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu (Susan McIntosh) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: raised beds and PT lumber Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 10:06:22 EST Organization: University of Florida, NERDC Lines: 11 Message-ID: <16B938E1E.SUSANMC@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu I've seen alot of posts lately about what to use if you want to edge your raised bed veggie garden. I'm interested in finding out if the folx who posted warning about using pressure treated lumber have seen any actual statistics on how much 'contamination' results from the treatment or have seen any documented cases of of people having health problems from using pt lumber around their veggies. It makes sense to avoid possible problems by using something else, but I'd like to know i to know if problems with pt lumber have been documented or just extrapolated :-) thanks! susan From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg Tue Mar 16 13:30:39 EST 1993 Article: 14549 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg From: mg@pacman.WPI.EDU (Martha Gunnarson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: spray marker / interesting catalog Date: 16 Mar 1993 16:17:37 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1o4uj1$iho@bigboote.WPI.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.wpi.edu To the person seeking a dye to use in marking sprayed areas: "Spray colorant tablets ... shows where you've sprayed with dissipating blue color. ... Dissipates in 2 to 72 hours depending on sunlight. Use 1 tablet for 1 to 2 gallons. Jar of 30 tablets. Order no. PG18 1-11 $11.85/jar 12+ $9.50/jar" Gempler's P.O. Box 270 211 Blue Mounds Road Mt. Horeb, WI 53572 Toll free ordering/Customer service: 1-800-382-8473 FAX: 1-800-551-1128 "Direct Agri Supply Specialists" "Your complete direct source for safety and personal protection geared to the out-of-doors worker. Compliance reference on EPA's new Worker Protection Standard, "40 CFR Part 170", which goes into effect this April. Industrial-grade, hard-to-find maintenance supplies. Tires, axles, wheels, tubes, reliners & repair supplies." From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg Tue Mar 16 13:31:00 EST 1993 Article: 14549 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg From: mg@pacman.WPI.EDU (Martha Gunnarson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: spray marker / interesting catalog Date: 16 Mar 1993 16:17:37 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1o4uj1$iho@bigboote.WPI.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.wpi.edu To the person seeking a dye to use in marking sprayed areas: "Spray colorant tablets ... shows where you've sprayed with dissipating blue color. ... Dissipates in 2 to 72 hours depending on sunlight. Use 1 tablet for 1 to 2 gallons. Jar of 30 tablets. Order no. PG18 1-11 $11.85/jar 12+ $9.50/jar" Gempler's P.O. Box 270 211 Blue Mounds Road Mt. Horeb, WI 53572 Toll free ordering/Customer service: 1-800-382-8473 FAX: 1-800-551-1128 "Direct Agri Supply Specialists" "Your complete direct source for safety and personal protection geared to the out-of-doors worker. Compliance reference on EPA's new Worker Protection Standard, "40 CFR Part 170", which goes into effect this April. Industrial-grade, hard-to-find maintenance supplies. Tires, axles, wheels, tubes, reliners & repair supplies." From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!AChamove Tue Mar 16 23:45:17 EST 1993 Article: 14576 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!AChamove Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Water gardens, fish & plants Message-ID: <1993Mar16.235432.13507@massey.ac.nz> From: AChamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 23:54:32 GMT References: <1993Mar15.134151.19265@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c Lines: 9 Goldfish will eat mosquito larvae, in fact it is very good for bringing fish into breeding condition. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold Chamove Massey University Psychology Palmerston North, New Zealand From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!jim.mcnelly Wed Mar 17 18:10:26 EST 1993 Article: 14611 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!jim.mcnelly From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: raised beds Message-ID: <1878.104.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> Date: 16 Mar 93 16:33:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Reply-To: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) Lines: 38 To: daoffer@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Debora Offer) From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us Date: 15 Mar 93 12:38:40 DO>rd Lauria) writes: DO> >I am planning to build some raised beds for my garden. It seems DO> >smart to use pressure treated wood to protect from rot, but it seem DO> >I remember seeing something awhile back that this was bad because DO> >the chemicals could leach into the soil and then into the plants. DO> > DO> >Is this true? What have others done? Not use PT wood? Line the DO> >bed with plastic? Pressure treated lumber, or Cromated Copper Arsenate, CCA contains over 3000 PPM arsenic and over 1000 PPM lead. The EPA sludge rules set the acceptable limit for arsenic at 11 PPM and lead at 250. While it is generally true that arsenic does not leach out of properly treated wood, the sawdust is rarely vacuumed and disposed and it can run off into surface water and permanently contaminate the soil. Improperly treated wood can contain live aresenic crystals and the brochure that is SUPPOSED to be handed out every time any CCA treated wood is sold warns about contacting the wood with skin, as arsenic is a severe carcinogen, notably for skin cancer. The info can be acquired from the Treated Wood Assn at 800-241-0240. The scraps should NEVER be burned as both fumes and ash are highly toxic. Currently, there is NO acceptable disposal option for treated lumber, and the product does eventually decompose, leaving its metals in the soil. Jim the Compost Man~~~~~ --- . SLMR 2.0 . ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS... . QNet3. . * * ORIGIN: GRANITE BBS * St. Cloud MN * 612-654-8372 HST ---- | HAL 9000 BBS +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 | Four 14.4k v.32bis dial-ins | | Public Access QWK-to-Usenet gateway | With PCBoard 14.5aM & uuPCB | +----------------------------+-------------+--------+--------------------+ | Member of EFF, ASP, & ASAD | 1.5 Gigabytes Online | Service since 1988 | From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae Fri Mar 19 20:36:28 EST 1993 Article: 14642 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: Q: seed starting medium Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: <1o35qjINNj72@controversy.math.lsa.umich.edu> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 16:24:15 GMT Lines: 73 In article <1o35qjINNj72@controversy.math.lsa.umich.edu> user writes: > >My question is, should I transplant them from the germination seed cells >into potting soil or into more soilless medium? After I've transplanted >them into the containers, should I fertilize them from time to time? And >is soilless medium so important? It's kind of expensive. What other >advice would anyone offer to ensure success? (Like I said, this is my >first effort with grow lights). Since you are a beginner, I'll mention that "heavy" in the following does not refer to weight, but more to density and water vs. air holding ability. Garden and potting soil are usually "heavy" and may be "lightened" by the addition of things like vermiculite, perlite, sand and peat moss. Don't transplant them until the roots have grown enough to hold the medium in the cell together. At this point, the plants are well past the worst damping-off susceptibility stage, so you can relax your vigilance, and plant them in something cheaper. Usually straight garden soil or potting soil is too heavy, but I agree that the soilless mix is too expensive for much beyond seed starting. I have a bucket of soil for transplanting that I keep adding stuff to when the level drops. Some of the things I use are vermiculite, bagged topsoil, sand, peat moss, perlite, bagged container-plant growing soil mix, etc. These things are quite cheap if you buy big bags at a nursery or garden centre rather than the tiny bags sold for house plant use. This year I don't have any peat moss or perlite handy, so I am using the other ingredients. In general, fast growing seedling like tomatoes can take a heavier mix than slow growing ones like some flowers with tiny seeds. The fast growing plant will fill the pot with roots and use more water, while the slower-growing one would get water-logged in a similar soil. You will probably need to fertilize your young plants, especially the fast growing ones. Be careful not to overdo it. I usually wait until "they look like they need it", not the best advice for a beginner, I know! The simplest indicator to describe is that the plants look pale - light or yellowish-green rather than medium or dark green. It depends on the plant of course, some lettuces are yellowish-green when they are in the peak of health, but pale or yellowish colour in tomatoes means they are low on nitrogen, so you should give them a bit of balanced fertilizer. Purplish coloration sometimes means a nutrient deficiency too. One caveat, if your plants look like they are suffering from every rare mineral deficiency in the plant pathology book, most likely you are overwatering or the soil is too heavy. The roots don't grow well in the water-logged soil and can't take up enough nutrients to supply the plant. Watering with a fertilizer solution is not a win here! I use several things for fertilizing seedlings. Easiest is soluble 20-20-20 with trace elements at half the concentration recommended on the package for use on houseplants. I also occasional put a few handsful of bagged composted manure in a 2-gallon bucket of tap water and let it stand overnight or longer. I use the water for the seedlings and refill the bucket with more tap water. You may need to dilute the solution from the first soaking. After a refill or two, the manure is pretty well leached out, and the sediment in the bottom of the bucket goes into the transplanting soil bucket. If you use *composted* manure, not dehydrated manure, you will not have problems with excessive salts or with odour. Other hints: Don't use cold tap water for watering. Fill a bucket or two and let them stand to reach room temperature if you don't want to use warm tap water. If you fill each bucket from the cold tap whenever you empty it, you'll always have plenty of "tempered" water around. The tap water often seems cold enough to crack your teeth around here in winter, and this is not good for warmth-loving plants like tomatoes and peppers. By the way, if you haven't bought your fluorescent light tubes yet, you can save a lot of money by getting the basic cheap "cool white" or "daylight" office ceiling type. For growing seedlings there is no advantage in using the full-spectrum or special grow-light plant tubes, which cost 10 to 20 times more. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!utnut!utgpu!bae Fri Mar 19 20:36:47 EST 1993 Article: 14643 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: New Gardener Seeks Advice Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: Distribution: na Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 16:53:57 GMT Lines: 102 In article igs@teal.csn.org (Tom Nelson) writes: > >I am a novice gardener seeking some guidance from the net.wisdom. > >My wife and I have a piece of the backyard (approx. 20x40 feet) which >we are dedicating to a vegetable garden. The soil in this part of Boulder >is very rocky and clay-ee (??) (:-). We have pretty much decided to take >the raised bed approach to ensure soil quality. However, I have a number >of questions regarding this approach: There are a number of good books on raised bed intensive methods that you should be able to find in your public library. Some of the ones I recommend are (names, authors, etc may be approximate): Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew Jeff Ball's 60-Minute Vegetable Garden by Jeff Ball Step by Step Organic Gardening by Shepherd Ogden High Intensity Gardening by Bortz and (somebody else) (Rodale press - thick book) The first three, especially the first one, are good for beginners. There are other good books on the topic as well. >1. First, is there a good (relatively comprehensive) book/guide which covers > gardening in the relatively short Colorado growing season? Can't help you there, but there is a book called (something like) "Organic Gardening in Cold Climates" by someone in Montana. There's also a good book on practical plant physiology of garden plants by a couple of people in Montana called "The Harrowsmith Country Life Book of Garden Secrets". Despite the hokey title, it has a lot of really good info. There are also a lot of books on short-season gardening written by New England and Canadian gardeners. >3. With the raised bed approach, what type of topsoil should I get? Sandy > with good drainage? Should I condition it with manure or other organic > matter before doing any spring planting? You may not want to buy topsoil after reading some of the above. You can improve the soil you've got. Topsoil may bring in weeds you will never get rid of, ditto for manure that is not well composted. You can never (practically) add too much organic material. >4. Where is the best place to get seeds? Are the catalogs better quality > than what I will find at my local nursery? The catalogs will give you a much wider selection, and more information. Some catalogs are mostly hype, while other give good technical info. The nursery most likely stocks a few varieties that do moderately well most places. You can get catalogs that specialize in seeds for your climate. Also, the mail order companies will have kept the seds under ideal conditions, while the ones on the rack in the nursery may have been exposed to more heat and moisture than is good for them. In general, mail order will give you more seeds for less money per packet, but you may need to restrain yourself from buying everything that looks good. :-) That said, it's getting a little late to be ordering some seeds, and you will likely have reasonable results with the off-the-shelf ones, so it's better to buy some than not to plant at all! >5. We have a small maple tree fairly close to the place where we want to > put in the beds. Does this placement pose any particular problems (ie. > root systems getting in the way)? Yes, the roots will grow into the garden preferentially, since the soil will be looser, more fertile, better watered, etc. Maples have shallow roots and can really compete for nutrients and water. Trying to chop through the roots is hard work. Also, that small maple will gradually become a large maple, the competition will get worse, and shading may become a really big problem. >Thanks for any help! We're excited about growing some vegetables this summer >and want to start out on the right foot. We planted some perennials last fall >and they are starting to poke up their heads (crocus' and snowdrifts are already >out...) Once you've grown your own, you'll never want to stop! Do yourself a big favour and start small. 100 sq ft, well prepared and maintained, is more than enough for the first year, and will produce an amazing amount of food using intensive methods. If you have time and energy, dig more beds and grow buckwheat or oats or other green manure crops to get them ready for next year. Another piece of priceless advice I can give you from painful experience is: Strip off the sod, don't dig it in! This will cut your weeding problems by 99% for the rest of the garden's life. Pile the pieces of sod upside down, don't let it grow out the edges and keep it moist, and in a few months you will have a nice pile of topsoil to add back to your garden. If you dig or till the sod in, you will ruin your wrists (like I did) trying to pull it out in chunks, and you will give a tremendous selective advantage to the absolutely worst of the perennial weeds like quackgrass (aka twitchgrass). I started a new raised bed garden in sod last year by stripping the sod and all the weeding I did was with my finger tips. >Happy gardening... You too! (and to all the readers who have gotten this far. :-) Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!stanford.edu!nntp.Stanford.EDU!cfairman Fri Mar 19 20:46:38 EST 1993 Article: 14651 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!stanford.edu!nntp.Stanford.EDU!cfairman From: cfairman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Carolyn Jean Fairman) Subject: what is canola? Message-ID: <1993Mar18.192259.14219@leland.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mr News) Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 19:22:59 GMT Lines: 16 bbs-hrick@jwt.oau.org (Rick Harrison) asks: >In the past couple of years, canola oil has become popular for >cooking with. What is canola's botanical name, what family is >it in, and what sort of climate does it grow in? (I assume >canola oil comes from some kind of seed?) Canola oil is derived from rapeseed. I think companies were worried about a negative reaction to oil from "rape" seed and changed the name. Rapeseed is the genus Brassica and related to the wild mustard weed, Arabidopsis. Most research for making better rapeseed oil is done on Arabidopsis. I think it'll grow most anywhere but I can only speak for California! Carolyn From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!srgenprp!tmenzies Fri Mar 19 20:49:29 EST 1993 Article: 14664 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!srgenprp!tmenzies From: tmenzies@sr.hp.com (Tom Menzies) Subject: Re: French Columbard Grapes Sender: news@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (News Administrator) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 01:16:23 GMT References: <1oagdkINNb23@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.8] Lines: 29 Baljinder Singh (bsingh@winton.Corp.Sun.COM) wrote: : Hello folks, : I need some info on French Columbard - wine grapes. We are looking : at some property that has ten-year-old vines that are in pretty bad : shape. The vines are just beginning to sprout buds. The vines have : not been pruned yet (after the 1992 harvest). : I would like to know if it would be better to not prune this year; : OR would it be ok to prune even now. What effect would this : have on yields ? It's probably better to go ahead and prune (as soon as possible). Colombard is a vigorous and fairly heavy yielding grape, so if left unpruned, you will have a mess, not to mention a poor quality crop. Prune fairly aggressively. Most spurs should be left with 2 buds. If the vines are in poor shape, count on a year or two of careful pruning and maintenance to get them in shape, and don't worry too much about crop for that time. ---- Tom Menzies Hewlett-Packard Co. Microwave Technology Division Santa Rosa, California tmenzies@sr.hp.com From samba!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!daoffer Fri Mar 19 20:51:21 EST 1993 Article: 14675 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!daoffer From: daoffer@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Debora Offer) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Old Seeds Date: 19 Mar 93 08:23:05 Organization: The University of Texas at Austin Lines: 19 Distribution: na Message-ID: References: <1oaf05INNav0@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: dewey.cc.utexas.edu In-reply-to: bsingh@winton.Corp.Sun.COM's message of 18 Mar 1993 18:28:21 GMT In article <1oaf05INNav0@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> bsingh@winton.Corp.Sun.COM (Baljinder Singh) writes: I have some leftover vegetable seeds from last year, and upon cleaning out the garage discovered I had some from 1991 and 1990. Is it worth the time to try planting these ? The seeds are beans, onions, squash, jalapeno peppers, lettuce and cucumber. They have been in the garage all this time in paper packages. Baljinder Singh You can check their germination rate by putting 10 seeds between two wet paper towels and seeing how many sprout. Of course, once they've sprouted, you'll want to pot them up! -- Please reply to the following address. The old one (ccwf) is running at 4 times overcapacity! \__ __/ Debora offer@mamba.asg.arlut.utexas.edu \__ __/ T any opinions expressed are mine, not necessarily my employers T From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae Fri Mar 19 20:52:38 EST 1993 Article: 14679 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: Rapeseed, was Re: what is canola? Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: <1993Mar18.192259.14219@leland.Stanford.EDU> <114708@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 16:12:26 GMT Lines: 19 In article <114708@netnews.upenn.edu> honors@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Cheryl Shipman) writes: > >Rape plants themselves also produce wonderful and tasty greens. If your >oil-seed production doesn't work out, you can simply eat the plants. Enjoy. I concur, and if anyone would like to try this on the cheap, find a place that sells seed for feeding canaries. You can usually buy about a pound of rapeseed for less than a dollar (i.e. enough for an army). The seeds are small, round and blackish like cabbage or broccoli seed. You can also sprout the seeds for salads and sandwiches (so now you know what to do with the rest of the pound bag). Incidentally, in China, rapeseed (also called colza) has been grown as a vegetable and as an oilseed for centuries. The oil was used in cooking and as a lamp oil. Beverly ("weird veggies 'R' us") Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!ecosoft!ljg Wed Mar 24 12:01:05 EST 1993 Article: 14776 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!ecosoft!ljg From: ljg@ecosoft.com (Lowell J. Gray) Subject: Re: raised beds and PT lumber Message-ID: <1993Mar24.013850.10060@ecosoft.com> Organization: Eco Software, Inc. References: <16B938E1E.SUSANMC@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> <9880057@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 01:38:50 GMT Lines: 20 In article <9880057@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> duanej@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Duane Jacobson) writes: > >Consider how long it took for any hard data to be published that cigarette >smoke increases the chance of developing cancer. Common sense tells me >that it's not a good idea to put arsenic, among other things, near food >that I plan to eat. What do you think? It seems so obvious to me that, like am I stupid or what, I can't believe anyone would think that stuff is safe. Sheeit we're talking chromium and arsenic. It is not magically bonded to the wood particles never to escape into the environment. I don't want PT wood anywhere around our house, let alone in the garden! - Lowell -- Lowell J. Gray ljg@ecosoft.com, uunet!ecosoft!ljg Eco Software, Inc. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!psmith Wed Mar 24 12:05:00 EST 1993 Article: 14796 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!psmith From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) Subject: Garlic Rate of Growth Message-ID: Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 14:08:52 GMT Lines: 19 I realize that in cooler climates, one really needs to plant garlic in the fall and harvest the following summer (late July, I think). I also realize that size depends partially on type of garlic. However, one thing I don't know is the extent to which garlic will grow over 2 years as opposed to one. Haven't tried this or seen it discussed in garlic literature. For instance Planted - Oct, 1992 Harvest - July/Aug, 1993 yields 1 volumetric unit Harvest - July/Aug, 1994 yields ? volumetric units What is "?"? Is it 1.25, 1.5, 2, ...? Thanks in advance From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd Thu Mar 25 21:34:52 EST 1993 Article: 14832 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Subject: Compost Pile Exhibit Message-ID: <1993Mar24.231100.8041@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 23:11:00 GMT Lines: 33 (Sorry about all the bad spellings in my last posting. The sun came out today here in Columbus, and my eyes are still adjusting.) Anyway, as part of Earth Day activities in April, the environmental club here at AT&T, Columbus, wants to tout composting. We plan to set up demonstration compost piles at the Franklin Park Conservatory, here in Columbus. Since next year the county will no longer allow yard waste to go to the landfill, people should be interested. I think our "spin" should NOT be "the esoteric science of composting", but instead "a compost pile can be simple and beautiful." Ideally, we want people strolling through the park to stop and say "why, what is this attractive thing", and then see it is a compost pile and read all about it at our signs there. I don't think a $200 store-bought bin is what we are looking for, but instead several demonstration piles, showing what to do with what you have. Any suggestions? Specifically: 1. What information should we attempt to get across (mostly through signs and look-see). (Maybe suggest the two-pile, this-year-last-year, method?) 2. What inexpensive materials can be used to build a compost pile? (What about inexpensive fencing?) 3. What can be used to hide a compost pile? How about taxus, polygonum (mile-a-minute) vine, ornamental grass, etc.? Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Thu Mar 25 21:35:28 EST 1993 Article: 14857 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Compost Pile Exhibit Message-ID: From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 18:20:43 GMT References: <1993Mar24.231100.8041@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 15 The Sacramento County Solid Waste Disposal Department is facing a state mandated requirement to reduce waste; research found reducing garden wastes to be the quickest route. As a result, they set up a composting program, giving a way circular compost bins. Of course, the cheapest route is just to pile up the compost. I understand Rodale has a book on this. I tried using pasture fencing and the pile just fell over. I understand snow fencing can work well. At the California State fair, they exhibited composting bins in various stages of composition, had different models on display with sales material, and showed the compost final product. They had fliers explaining the basics and had signups for workshops where composting was explained and bins given to participants. They have started a Master Composter program, similar to the Master Gardener, to assist them in holding workshops. Bruce Moon Rio Linda, CA From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv Thu Mar 25 21:35:55 EST 1993 Article: 14871 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Subject: Re: Compost Pile Exhibit Message-ID: <1993Mar25.171717.18918@walter.cray.com> Lines: 23 Sender: gwv@eastrg2 (George Vandenberghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: eastrg2-gate.cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: <1993Mar24.231100.8041@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Date: 25 Mar 93 17:17:16 CST In article , bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) writes: |> The Sacramento County Solid Waste Disposal Department is facing a state |> mandated requirement to reduce waste; research found reducing garden |> wastes to be the quickest route. As a result, they set up a composting |> program, giving a way circular compost bins. Of course, the cheapest route |> is just to pile up the compost. I understand Rodale has a book on this. I |> tried using pasture fencing and the pile just fell over. I understand snow |> fencing can work well. |> At the California State fair, they exhibited composting bins in |> various stages of composition, had different models on display with sales |> material, and showed the compost final product. They had fliers explaining |> the basics and had signups for workshops where composting was explained |> and bins given to participants. They have started a Master Composter |> program, similar to the Master Gardener, to assist them in holding workshops. |> Bruce Moon |> Rio Linda, CA Unfortunately my town (Hyattsville Md) prohibits composting except in enclosed bins with small slats. They did this because of concerns about compost piles harboring rats. I compost anyway; organic matter is too valuable to let it get out of the yard. From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!pobox.cca.cr.rockwell.com!djpauker Thu Mar 25 21:37:03 EST 1993 Article: 14862 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!pobox.cca.cr.rockwell.com!djpauker From: djpauker@hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com (Dan Paukert) Message-ID: <9303252132.AA26976@bigten.cca.cr.rockwell.com> Subject: Garlic Rate of Growth Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 15:32:35 -0600 X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA19965; Thu, 25 Mar 93 13:33:48 -0800 X-Received: by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com; id AA01389; Thu, 25 Mar 93 13:33:37 -0800 X-Received: by bigten.cca.cr.rockwell.com (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA26976; Thu, 25 Mar 93 15:32:35 -0600 X-Cc: rec.gardens.usenet Lines: 22 Garlic is a cousin of the tulip. The cloves will form a tight bulb in an effort to reproduce if they are left in the ground for more than one growing season. Garlic bulbs should be harvested at least once a year, generally in the fall. The cloves can be seperated and planted individually with sufficient growing space to form another bulb. A very small patch of garlic can produce a very abundant harvest within a few years. Garlic can be started by planting the cloves of garlic purchased in the grocery stores or by planting the seeds created at the end of the season. Getting rid of unwanted garlic may be difficult if it is growing in grass. Try a broadleaf herbicide such as Weed-B-Gone. o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o | Dan Paukert /^^\ | E-mail= djpauker@hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com | o 638 36th St. NE | | o work phone 319/395-2212 o | Cedar Rapids, IA 52402 | | | Fax 319/395-4182 | o 319/364-0870 / | o o | <__/\/ | | o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o From samba!concert!uvaarpa!caen!spool.mu.edu!olivea!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!ogicse!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!news.u.washington.edu!news Wed Mar 31 14:00:50 EST 1993 Article: 14957 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!caen!spool.mu.edu!olivea!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!ogicse!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!news.u.washington.edu!news From: kcarroll@stein.pathology.washington.edu (Kris Carroll) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: rg FAQs Message-ID: <1p650nINN828@shelley.u.washington.edu> Date: 29 Mar 93 06:29:43 GMT Organization: University of Washington Lines: 2 NNTP-Posting-Host: koko.pathology.washington.edu I'd love to see a shade garden FAQ but don't have the time or skills to do it myself, though I'd contribute.... From samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!mcdhup!src4src!bluedg!FredMail Wed Mar 31 14:02:25 EST 1993 Article: 15049 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!mcdhup!src4src!bluedg!FredMail From: philip@bluedg.linet.org (Philip Perlman) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: software Message-ID: <733481166.AA00273@bluedg.linet.org> Date: 30 Mar 93 08:33:46 GMT Sender: FredMail@bluedg.linet.org Lines: 27 ============================================================================= * Forwarded by Philip Perlman (1:278/709) * Area : NET (NetMail) * From : Philip Perlman, 1:278/709 (Tuesday March 30 1993 03:31) * To : FredMail * Subj : software ============================================================================= To: rutgers!ice.com!karen Hello Karen, On Monday March 29 1993, rutgers!ice.com!karen was seen whispering to Philip: rc> @Apparently-To: philip rc> From: src4src!mcdhup!rutgers!ice.com!karen (Karen L. Endres) rc> Message-ID: <1CE00001.tpe6mh@sky.ice.com> >> I have a huge number of gardening files here. F'req FILES for a complete >> listing. rc> Can I reach this by gopher? If not could you please send me mail where rc> I can get to the files. I am a novice net user but have access to rc> help. No not by gopher. I run a BBS, BlueDog BBS which is accessible by telephone modem at (212)594-4425 at speeds from 2400-19200. If you have access to a local BBS which is a member of FidoNet they can F'req (File Request) my list of files, which is updated daily at 6am, by using the magic name "Files" or "Bluedog.arj". ttyl. /* Phil */ From samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!gumby!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!fornax!harder Sat Apr 3 10:01:27 EST 1993 Article: 15090 of rec.gardens Xref: samba comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted:10812 rec.gardens:15090 Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted,rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!gumby!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!fornax!harder From: harder@cs.sfu.ca (Ian Harder) Subject: Landscaper's Inventory Program Message-ID: <1993Mar31.190811.5144@cs.sfu.ca> Keywords: landscaping inventory point-of-sale software gardening accounting Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 19:08:11 GMT Lines: 48 I wonder if the kind readers of this newsgroup might provide me with some information. A friend of mine operates a small landscaping firm, and would like to acquire a computerized landscaping inventory program that addresses the requirements specifications: --- She buys certain types of trees and shrubs each year. These are typically small, and not usually saleable when purchased. As they grow, they tend to increase in price until some optimum size, then they tend to decrease in price. The contents of her inventory thus vary not only by the actual numbers of items she maintains, but their size and worth. She would like to have a system that manages not only basic inventory, but information associated with growing plants, such as an estimate of current net worth of the stock on hand. A point-of-sale system would also be useful. Her plants can be measured in either standard British units, or metric, and by height or caliper (trunk diameter). I'm not sure whether the flexibility to measure in various units is a strict requirement, but I believe measurement by either height or caliper must be permitted. She keeps these plants in groups, and marked with coloured tags so she knows when they have been purchased, and can probably determine average size for a group either annually or semi-annually. --- A system has been set up on her existing computer (386 25MHz IBM) using ACCPAC. But it maintains only static items. That is, as plants grow they must be deleted from one category to the next to provide. This requires a horrendous amount of work on her part, making it quite quite unsatisfactory. Do any readers know of existing programs that meet these specifications, or something close this these? As hers is a small business, affordability is important. A custom-built system is not really an option to her as the expense is prohibitive. Thanks in advance, Ian Harder -- /=============================================================\ | Ian Harder | | Harder Software Ltd. Telephone: (604) 685-0067 | | 612-1035 Pacific Street Facsimile: (604) 685-4800 | From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!eniac.seas.upenn.edu!mmendel Sat Apr 3 22:09:41 EST 1993 Article: 15209 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!eniac.seas.upenn.edu!mmendel From: mmendel@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Mark Mendel) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Mache, feldsalad, nussle, cornsalad, etc. Summary: What was that wonderful salad green I ate in Zermatt? Keywords: salad greens Message-ID: <117959@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 4 Apr 93 01:37:42 GMT Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: eniac.seas.upenn.edu Two years ago I had the most wonderful salad green at a hotel in Zermatt. I believe it was some type of mache (french name) or feldsalat or nussle or cornsalad. But I am not really sure, and over the past two years, as I try one variety of mache seed after another, none are nearly as good as what I ate over there. Does anyone know which variety is the one that is most commonly served in Switzerland, and if so, where to get the seeds? This is really terrific stuff--it was for a bit of this green that Rapunzel's mother gave up her baby to the witch (who then put long-locked, long-locked Rapunzel up in the tower). Mark Mendel mmendel@eniac.seas.upenn.edu From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!torn!blaze.trentu.ca!TrentU.CA!SPAUL Wed Apr 7 10:38:43 EDT 1993 I am curious to find out if anybody knows anything about the National Pond Society. I am considering a career in Landscaping and when I came across an advertisement for the NPS I wanted to find out more abouit it. Can anybody help me? Please write to me directly as I sometimes have trouble with the newsrdr system. Thank you in advance, Steve Paul spaul@trentu.ca From samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!ra!shiva4175.nrl.navy.mil!user Thu Apr 8 14:48:12 EDT 1993 Article: 15375 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!ra!shiva4175.nrl.navy.mil!user From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) Subject: NCAMP information Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: usenet@ra.nrl.navy.mil Organization: NRL Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 16:45:16 GMT Lines: 27 Someone asked for the address of NCAMP, the National Coalition against the Misuse of Pesticides. It is: NCAMP 701 E. St. SE Washington, DC 20003 (202) 543-5450 Memberships range from $15/yr (low income) on up, and they offer a variety of free and pay-for publications. Their booklet states: "NCAMP is a non-profit membership organization that was formed to serve as a national network committed to pesticide safety and the adoption of alternative pest management strategies which reduce or eliminate a dependency on toxic chemicals..." I found out about NCAMP when trying to deal with an invasion of ants in my house; I was terrified that they were carpenter ants, but was unsure how to identify them or what to do about them. I spoke with a very knowledgeable person on the phone, who directed me to the local insect-identifying HQ of the MD Cooperative Extension Service and sent me literature on ants and some other useful information. Other than sending in a membership fee, that's all the contact I've had with them so far. But that may change soon: the ants are back (it's an annual event :^<), the boric-acid approach is inadequate, and NCAMP has a list of local environmentally-conscious exterminators... Yuck. Judy Karpen "pushing back the frontiers of science" karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC USA From samba!concert!rock!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!darwin.sura.net!cs.utk.edu!langston.cs.utk.edu!langston Thu Apr 8 14:49:29 EDT 1993 annette lim writes: > A friend of mine lives in the South San Jose area (zone 15) > and is interested in finding a source for a fruiting persimmon > tree for the garden. I don't know the name of the variety exactly, > but I usually find the fruit sold in the Asian grocery markets. > The persimmons are hard and shaped like squat tomatoes. The fruit > is often eaten like apples. Any help is greatly appreciated. then your friend wants (some cultivar of) the asian persimmon (kaki), as opposed to the american persimmon a commercial supplier of many kaki cultivars (grafted onto american rootstock i believe) is: chestnut hill nursery (florida) 800-669-2067 btw, this is the outfit that supplies everybody else with dunstan chestnuts -- they sell some other stuff too, but kakis and chestnuts are their main products one little tiny caution -- watch out for nematodes from those sandy southeastern soils -- mike langston department of computer science, university of tennessee From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.centerline.com!uunet!tarpit!tous!bilver!jwt!hrick Thu Apr 8 21:43:39 EDT 1993 My collection of data on tangerine/mandarin varieties has grown quite a bit since I posted that first draft on 10 Feb. I now have references to 50 or 60 varieties, and more detail than anyone could want to know on some of them. I'll try to edit it down to postable form when a few free moments present themselves. From samba!concert!gatech!udel!wupost!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Thu Apr 8 21:44:31 EDT 1993 kheidel@cabell.vcu.edu (Kurt R. Heidelberg) writes: > I lost the address to the J L (?) Hudson, Seedsman Catalog out of > Redwood City, CA. > > Anybody have it? J.L. HUDSON, SEEDSMAN [CAT - $1US] P.O. Box 1058 Redwood City, CA 94064 U.S.A. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org | Primary address bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org | Backup address From samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!julia!ramirez Fri Apr 9 12:47:12 EDT 1993 Article: 15432 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!julia!ramirez From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) Subject: valerian Message-ID: <1993Apr9.155942.19772@math.ucla.edu> Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 15:59:42 GMT Lines: 17 rust@dssdev.enet.dec.com writes: > And valerian (not the "red valerian" already mentioned, but valeriana > officionalis, I think) smells *wonderful* to me - in the daytime. At > night, however, it takes on a horrible, sweaty smell, and becomes > quite offensive. (This was annoying because it's a tall, handsome Isn't valerian the stuff the Tibetans use to make incense? Those thick, soft, bundled sticks you can buy at certain places, such as new age bookstores, tend to smell like my valerian tea. Valerian tea, incidently, is said to promote psychic energy. I don't know if this is true or not. It has an interesting flavor that makes a good alternative to all those over-sweetened gaa-gaa-goo-goo drinks. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!crcnis1.unl.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!kammerer Fri Apr 9 16:50:34 EDT 1993 I was reading an English garden book from 1903 which spoke of growing opium poppies each year from the spill of seed from previous years. The nurseries called them peony-flowered poppies, the garden book said. Sure enough, the peony flowered poppies listed in a local seed outlet were Papaver somniferum. The garden book's author said of the issue of politically correct name for this narcotic little bloomer: "Such duplicity." With government control of drugs widening in the Clinton era, (pharmaceutical companies have been declared as greedy as the illegal such companies by Clinton), people may need to have such information. Since the comstock act prevents people from disseminating any information on abortifacient and emmagogueic plants, this information is not widely know either. Some women may use these plants to regulate their menstrual cycles, for far, far less than any drugs prescribed in our pricy health system. I agree that such discussions are inappropriate (I hate that word though) in this forum, but gardening has always held a medicinal subplot and there is a certain wild charm from growing such strange and powerful plants, and lessons, rather than drugs, to be extracted from their little green mouths. I have neither the chronic world weariness, nor sickness unto death that would require me to entrance myself with the sorceries possible with any of these plants, but I have to think we need to have the freedom to talk about such strange, surreal sorceries. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!crcnis1.unl.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!kammerer Fri Apr 9 16:52:15 EDT 1993 Article: 15214 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!crcnis1.unl.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!kammerer From: kammerer@cwis.unomaha.edu (Al Kammerer) Subject: Re: Opium Poppies Message-ID: <1993Apr5.030555.11762@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <113606@bu.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 03:05:55 GMT Lines: 30 I was reading an English garden book from 1903 which spoke of growing opium poppies each year from the spill of seed from previous years. The nurseries called them peony-flowered poppies, the garden book said. Sure enough, the peony flowered poppies listed in a local seed outlet were Papaver somniferum. The garden book's author said of the issue of politically correct name for this narcotic little bloomer: "Such duplicity." With government control of drugs widening in the Clinton era, (pharmaceutical companies have been declared as greedy as the illegal such companies by Clinton), people may need to have such information. Since the comstock act prevents people from disseminating any information on abortifacient and emmagogueic plants, this information is not widely know either. Some women may use these plants to regulate their menstrual cycles, for far, far less than any drugs prescribed in our pricy health system. I agree that such discussions are inappropriate (I hate that word though) in this forum, but gardening has always held a medicinal subplot and there is a certain wild charm from growing such strange and powerful plants, and lessons, rather than drugs, to be extracted from their little green mouths. I have neither the chronic world weariness, nor sickness unto death that would require me to entrance myself with the sorceries possible with any of these plants, but I have to think we need to have the freedom to talk about such strange, surreal sorceries. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!beach.csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!vax.sonoma.edu!butler Fri Apr 9 16:57:31 EDT 1993 Article: 15440 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!beach.csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!vax.sonoma.edu!butler Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Opium Poppies Message-ID: <1993Apr9.091324.1@vax.sonoma.edu> From: butler@vax.sonoma.edu Date: 9 Apr 93 09:13:24 -0800 Followup-To: rec.gardens References: <44.2bbfe5dc@axolotl> Organization: Sonoma State University Nntp-Posting-Host: vax.sonoma.edu Lines: 20 bailey@butyng.bu.edu (Sherry Bailey) writes: > I never suggested that censorship (except for self control) was > requested. > But what Sherry Bailey proposed WAS censorship. She wanted us to not discuss a certain aspect of plants. The problem is that there are several uses of plants (culinary, aesthetic, medicinal, etc.) and we should be able to openly discuss them all. For instance, I may not care about using some leave for potpourri, but I'm certainly not going to prohibit others from talking about it. In order to learn more about these magnificent things, we must continue uninhibited discussions of all their wonders. ^^^ Happy Gardening, Bob Butler (butler@sonoma.edu) From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!crcnis1.unl.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!kammerer Fri Apr 9 17:48:23 EDT 1993 Article: 15216 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!wupost!crcnis1.unl.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!kammerer From: kammerer@cwis.unomaha.edu (Al Kammerer) Subject: Re: Scents the Whole Garden Message-ID: <1993Apr5.031447.11985@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1993Mar26.145108.7317@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 03:14:47 GMT Lines: 11 There is an annual heliotrope, with a purple, deeply scented flower. Jupiter's beard, an annual where I grow it, but half hardy some years, or reseeds, I don't know. Anyway, I suspect that horticultural sources sometimes extrapolate information from one plant to another of the same name, and imagine, guess, hope, and disseminate the bad information. Jupiter's beard, Valerian, sounds impressive in the catalogues, even without any smell. Red (turns out more pinkish than red) and a nice patriarchal thrust to it (turns out to be androgynous, subtle, yin). From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!DIALix!syzygy!blaster Fri Apr 9 23:45:07 EDT 1993 Article: 15453 of rec.gardens Xref: samba soc.culture.french:18972 soc.culture.greek:18290 rec.gardens:15453 Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!DIALix!syzygy!blaster From: blaster@syzygy.DIALix.oz.au (Master Blaster) Newsgroups: soc.culture.french,soc.culture.greek,rec.gardens Subject: McElwaine FAQ Distribution: world Message-ID: <734302172snx@syzygy.DIALix.oz.au> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 93 20:49:32 GMT Organization: WHM Inc. Lines: 260 McElwaine Frequently Asked Questions. *** PLEASE *** Please Read and then place in your Kill File. Please do not post this to newsgroups without asking me first. Multiple posts of this will be as bad as McElwaine's postings. Please feel free to mail this to your friends and associates. ************** Hi - welcome to the McElwaine FAQ, Version 1.3b by Master Blaster (blaster@syzygy.dialix.oz.au). March/April 1993 SUMMARY ======= Information on who and what McElwaine is, McElwaine postings, frequented newsgroups, use of CAPITALISATION, cited references, what you should and shouldn't do in response, ftp sites. <0.0> who is Robert E. McElwaine? <1.0> how do I know it's a McElwaine post? <1.1> what is his method of distributing information? <1.2> when did the postings start? <1.3> what newsgroups have been targeted? <1.4> what topics have been covered? <1.5> what should I do after reading a McElwaine posting? <1.6> what references do the postings use? <1.7> is McElwaine an official representitive of his university? <1.8> how do I get in touch with McElwaine? <1.9> What is wrong with the postings? <2.0> If he is such a problem, why doesn't his university do something? <2.1> FTP sites. * * * <0.0> who is Robert E. McElwaine? Robert E. McElwaine from the University of Wisconsin Eau Claire is an "Internet Legend". He is a graduate of the University of Wisconsin Eau Clair and spends a lot of his time posting articles to the network. He is not a server program or a group of people as some have suggested. His use of the Net. is only one channel for his information. He apparently posts it up around his campus and pushes it in many other ways. He apparently believes and feels very strongly about everything he posts. <1.0> how do I know it's a McElwaine post? McElwaine postings have a distinct flavour. To identify one you don't even need to look at the header. The following article attributes will help identify a McElwaine posting: i) A header mentioning how this article relates to the newsgroup OR how the author has been persecuted in past years for posting it. ii) CAPITALISED WORDS spread amongst the text for emphasis. iii) The following signature: UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. Robert E. McElwaine iv) The use of $ to replace the letter S, as in BAR-CODE-$CANNER$ or Jew$. <1.1> what is his method of distributing information? McElwaine posts to many newsgroups. Mostly he posts to groups that have some sort of connection with the contents of the posting. Occasionally he posts an article to a group with a name which appears in the contents of his article; for example, an article on SDI (Star Wars defence) was posted to rec.arts.sf.starwars. His postings are all individual - almost never cross-posted. In this respect alone he is taking up a lot of network bandwidth. Usually he posts articles with a "header" targeted at the particular group the article is in. The header points out IMPORTANT information contained in the article of interest to readers of that newsgroup. <1.2> when did the postings start? McElwaine started posting at or before August 1991. Since then his postings have become more frequent. He now posts at least once a week to some groups. <1.3> what newsgroups have been targeted? Numerous groups have been the target of McElwaine postings: sci.space alt.atheism rec.arts.sf.starwars sci.astro alt.religion.computers rec.arts.sf.tv sci.energy alt.consciousness rec.arts.movies sci.space.shuttle alt.magick rec.arts.startrek.* sci.physics alt.pagan rec.gardens sci.physics.fusion alt.folklore.urban rec.sports.olympics sci.math alt.bizarre rec.sports.misc sci.optics alt.dreams rec.running sci.research alt.out-of-body rec.arts.drwho sci.environment alt.politics.perot rec.music.christian sci.skeptic alt.sex rec.arts.tv.uk sci.chem rec.food.cooking misc.misc soc.culture.british talk.rumors comp.ai misc.kids soc.women talk.politics.soviet misc.fitness soc.history soc.culture.soviet soc.culture.greek soc.culture.australian soc.culture.french <1.4> what topics have been covered? McElwaine covers many topics including religion, science, social issues, political issues, cultural issues and psuedo-science. Recently (April '93) McElwaine has been posting Beter Audio Letters as well as his own articles. See <1.6> The majority of people in the newsgroups disagree with the information given in the articles. <1.5> what should I do after reading a McElwaine posting? You have a number of options including posting a flame, mailing a flame, giving critical comment, or doing nothing. It is suggested that **ignoring** his posting is the best course of action. McElwaine appears to thrive on comments and flames about his articles because he then knows that people have read them. Initially, McElwaine replied to his mail and followups to his postings. He appears to have given up now. Very few people have ever had success with mailing McElwaine. One person mailed him and received a lot of his articles in reply. Abuse or reasoning now meets with a stoney silence. The amount of mail he receives is probably very high. Mail bombing of McElwaine's account is apparently quite frequent but has had little success so far. For this reason it is suggested that you do not participate in this activity. There is one case, to my knowledge, of McElwaine no longer posting to a group. It was due to the participants in the newsgroup ignoring the posting. <1.6> what references do the postings use? McElwaine uses several references: i) The Peter Beter Audio Letters. ii) The Wisconsin Report. iii) Published books and reports. iv) Other sources not cited. i) Dr Peter Beter's Audio Letters were made between June 21 1975 and November 3 1982. Overall there were 80 made. They contain various "predictions" and other sensationalist reports. Most are based on "conspiracy" theories from the early 1980's. They were classed as dubious back then and certainly have no place in the 90's. ii) The Wisconsin Report is a weekly legislative newspaper containing more of the same types of information that the Beter Tapes do. Most likely because Dr Beter wrote for the Wisconsin Report. iii) Published works include: "The Secret Life of Plants" - "The Structure of the Physical Universe" - Dewey Larson. "Born to be Magnetic" - Frances Nixon, 1973. iv) Other sources are probably used by McElwaine but no references are given. <1.7> is McElwaine an official representitive of his university? No, he is not. It would appear that there is even a "standard disclaimer" that is posted if people ask about McElwaine. His ideas and comments are purely his own and not those of his department or university. The system administrator at McElwaine's machine refuses to reply to mail concerning McElwaine. (One theory is that the sysadmin IS McElwaine). See <2.0> <1.8> how do I get in touch with McElwaine? Send mail to mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu. The chances of a reply are small because of the amount of "mail" he receives. It is strongly suggested that you don't bother. <1.9> What is wrong with the postings? Although Mr McElwaine has every right to post articles to the network, regardless of their content, he is doing it in a continually obnoxious way. The content is not in question. It is the method of distribution that is. <2.0> If he is such a problem, why doesn't his university do something? Apparently McElwaine has taken legal action against individuals and his university in the past. It appears that the University is proceeding with caution on this issue. They are aware of the situation but do not wish to enter into a court battle they may well lose. McElwaine is claiming his "constitutional right to free speech". <2.1> FTP Sites? The Beter Tapes are held on: uglymouse.css.itd.umich.edu A collection of McElwaine articles is stored on: world.std.com: /pub/alt.religion.kibology/mcelwaine Also see the newsgroup alt.fan.robert-mcelwaine * * * The above information was collected by the author of this FAQ from McElwaine postings, followups and mail I have received on McElwaine. All opinions expressed are entirely those of the author. The information is, as far as I know, correct at the time of printing. Thanks to all those readers who have responded with information. Any further information is gladly accepted. This information may be copied and freely distributed by email. Please do not post it. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!cac.psu.edu!gho Mon Apr 12 11:06:45 EDT 1993 Article: 15514 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!cac.psu.edu!gho From: gho@cac.psu.edu (George H. Otto) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: When do I take my seedlings out of the "greenhouse"? Date: 12 Apr 1993 13:53:25 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1qbs8l$2i4@genesis.ait.psu.edu> References: <1993Apr9.123740.1991@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <93099.162417TMH1@psuvm.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: wilbur.cac.psu.edu In article <93099.162417TMH1@psuvm.psu.edu>, Tina Hay @ Penn State writes: |> |> ... But what happens if, say, about a third of the cells in |> your six-pack (or whatever) show germination and the rest are still quiet? |> Do you wait until they've all germinated? ... Is it |> better to err on the side of keeping them covered, or on the side of taking |> the cover off? |> Particularly if you are not using a sterile, soilless starting medium; I would unconver them as soon as you see a couple starting up. The excees humidity from remaining covered can facilitate damping off fungus on the surface of your soil, which will be deadly to your seedlings. Because of this, I've stopped using "grow domes" altogether. I now start my seedings in 5" clay pots, uncovered and bottom watered by standing them in a sink full of water every few days. The germination rate has been good, but you do need to prick them out into cell packs after a couple of true leaves develop (an extra step compared to starting in the trays). I don't know if uncovered tray cells would have enough soil to maintain consistent moisture; that's one reason why I like the clay pots as opposed to sowing directly in the trays. George Otto Center for Academic Computing Penn State gho@psuvm.psu.edu From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!encinitas!jaya Mon Apr 12 22:58:21 EDT 1993 Article: 15544 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!encinitas!jaya From: jaya@encinitas.Eng.Sun.COM (Jaya Holla) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: REQ: Source for Persimmon tree Date: 12 Apr 1993 22:58:50 GMT Organization: Sun Lines: 33 Distribution: usa Message-ID: References: <1993Apr7.231551.21454@ntmtv> NNTP-Posting-Host: encinitas Keywords: persimmon, tree, source The fruit is called "fuyu" persimmon (Fuyu means winter in Japanese). The squishy variety is alled hachiya persimmon. You can buy saplings from the following places: - Sunnyvale Nursery on Sunnyvale Saratoga - Bonsai Nursery ( Pricier than Sunnyvale Nursery). - Woolworth - Osh They sure taste good. I like it better than the squishy variety. S/He should check it out now. It is a little past the bare-root stage tho' Goodluck, Jaya In article <1993Apr7.231551.21454@ntmtv> lim@ntmtv.com (Annette Lim) writes: > >A friend of mine lives in the South San Jose area (zone 15) >and is interested in finding a source for a fruiting persimmon >tree for the garden. I don't know the name of the variety exactly, >The persimmons are hard and shaped like squat tomatoes. The fruit >is often eaten like apples. Any help is greatly appreciated. >Thanks in advance. > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Annette Lim UUCP: {ames,mcdcup,portal}!ntmtv!lim >Northern Telecom INTERNET: lim@ntmtv.com >Mountain View, CA From samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!news.crd.ge.com!ducktales.med.ge.com!larry Mon Apr 12 23:00:57 EDT 1993 Article: 15552 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!news.crd.ge.com!ducktales.med.ge.com!larry From: larry@ducktales.med.ge.com (Larry Landwehr) Subject: Habanero Hothouse Message-ID: Sender: usenet@crdnns.crd.ge.com (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: ducktales.med.ge.com Organization: GE Corp R&D Center, Schenectady NY Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 01:40:04 GMT Lines: 213 Here's a description of my pepper growing setup for anyone who is interested. I went to one of the local Goodwill stores and bought a used door for $10.00 (get a solid core door if at all possible). Then I went to a local lumber yard (something similar to Handy Andy, Home Depot etc) and bought some foldable table legs for about $12.00. After attaching the legs to the door, I had a very serviceable table with plenty of surface area for little cost (if the door is not solid core, you'll have to use some plywood scraps so the legs don't rip right through the door-table when you put weight on it). Next, I went to a local farm supply store and bought the following: 4 threaded rods 3 feet long 12 nuts and 8 washers to match the rods 3 pieces of angle iron 6 feet long Then I drilled one hole in each corner of the table and inserted one rod in each hole and bolted them into place - see diagram below (again, use plywood scraps to reinforce the door if you don't have a solid core one). Use two nuts and two washers per each rod to fasten them to the table. | | | | | | | | | | /-|---------------------------------------------|--- / | | / | / | / | / | / | / | / |/ | / | | / /| | / / | | / /--------------------------------------------------/ | | Next, I took two of the 6 foot angle iron pieces and drilled one hole at each end of each piece as shown below: ------- / () /| / / | / / | / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / () / / ------- / | / | / |/ Then I threaded one additional nut onto each rod (all at approximately the same height) and fitted the angle iron pieces onto the threaded rods as shown below so that they rested on the nuts (no washers are needed): | | __|_____________________________________________|__ | | | | | | /-|---------------------------------------------|--- / | | / | / | / __|______________________________________________|__ / | / | / |/ | / | | / /| | / / | | / /--------------------------------------------------/ | | Next I cut my third piece of angle iron into two three foot sections and placed them across the two 6 foot angle irons as shown below. | / / | __|______/_____________________________/________|__ | / / | | / / | | / / | /-|--/-----------------------------/------------|--- / / / | / | / / / | / __|_______/_____________________________/________|__ / | / / / | / |/ / / | / | | / /| | / / | | / /--------------------------------------------------/ | | All of this activity produced a large table with a sturdy iron framework on top. The next step was to buy four 4 foot long fluorescent lamps down at the local Kmart for about $10 a piece, along with two extension cords and a 24 hour timer. I laid the four lamps side by side upon the two 3 foot pieces of angle iron so that they were parallel with the two six foot pieces of angle iron, | / / | __|______/_____________________________/________|__ | / / | | _______________________________________ | |_______________________________________ | /-_______________________________________-------|--- / _______________________________________ | / | / / / | / __|_______/_____________________________/________|__ / | / / / | / |/ / / | / | | / /| | / / | | / /--------------------------------------------------/ | | and plugged them into the timer. Voila, instant indoor greenhouse - low cost - rugged construction - made from readily available materials. The best feature is that the height of the lights is easily adjustable by simply turning the nuts located under the 6 foot pieces of angle iron. By placing some aluminum foil around the frame, you will have a really nice growing environment for your plants. One further thing that you may want to do is to drill holes at the ends of the three foot pieces of angle iron and fasten a bolt through each end so that they don't slip off the six foot pieces and bring the lights crashing down on your plants. Here's what I did to provide soil for my plants to grow in: Walmart sells these really nice green planter boxes for $4.50 a piece made out of heavy duty plastic. They're 2.5 feet long. If you place them side by side under the fluorescent lights in the diagram above (perpendicular to the lights - not parallel to them), you will find that 6 of them fit perfectly with no wasted space. I had some plexiglass laying around, so made some dividers out of it by cutting it up using a skill saw (use a fine toothed saw blade such as those used to cut plywood). Cut one long piece for each planter box as below, 27.5" _________________________________________ \ / 5" \ / ------------------------------------- 26.5" and fit it down the middle of the box as below: ----------------------------------------- | | |---------------------------------------| | | ----------------------------------------- Then I cut some smaller pieces to further sub-divide the box as follows: ----------------------------------------- | | | | | | | | | |---------------------------------------| | | | | | | | | | ----------------------------------------- With the dividers in place, each plant has its own space since roots cannot grow through plexiglass. Yet the boxes are rigid enough so that many plants can be moved around under the lights as one convient unit. They can also be easily slid out from under the lights, watered, and slid back into place. In addition, since the boxes are made out of plastic, I don't have the problem of the soil rapidly drying out as peat cups are prone to do. When spring finally gets under way, you can easily disassemble everything by taking apart the iron framework and folding up the table legs. The planter boxes nest inside each other when the plexiglass dividers are removed. All in all, this complete setup has provided me with hours of no hassle enjoyment - as well as the satisfaction of constructing a really neat environment for my young plants. Larry Landwehr If you reproduce this article, please leave my name on it. From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!purdue!bu.edu!butyng.bu.edu!bailey Wed Apr 14 21:48:03 EDT 1993 Article: 15635 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!purdue!bu.edu!butyng.bu.edu!bailey From: bailey@butyng.bu.edu (Sherry Bailey) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Pressure treated wood OK for gardens Message-ID: <115321@bu.edu> Date: 14 Apr 93 21:18:05 GMT References: <115040@bu.edu> <1993Apr13.025811.2089@samba.oit.unc.edu> Sender: news@bu.edu Followup-To: rec.gardens Organization: Boston University Corp Ed Center Lines: 23 I posted the information about PT wood because I think it's interesting and because *I* felt relieved that my garden may not be toxic after all. Some Organic Purists may still be concerned -- actually, anybody may still be concerned. That's why I included the contact information cited in the article -- call or write and find out what you need to know to make your own decision. All *I* know is that in Organic Gardening (to which I subscribe) the only thing *I* ever saw was the general comment to the effect that "PT wood is chemically treated and therefore does not belong in the Organic Garden" -- no studies were cited, no evidence of harm was shown, just a blanket statement that if you are organic you don't use chemical stuff. Period. If anybody has EVIDENCE that contradicts the study I cited, please post it -- I for one am tried of assumptions and panic. (And I, for one, intend to send a soil sample in for testing, if the test is affordable for arsenic.) Meanwhile, I'm keeping my established PT raised bed. I might not use it again, but I'm not tearing it out without some real reason. If my brain cells start going, you can observe that in my postings and draw your own conclusions! ;^) Sherry From samba!concert!gatech!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius Wed Apr 14 21:51:11 EDT 1993 Article: 15643 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius From: Bob Klebba Subject: Re: Pressure treated wood OK for gardens Message-ID: <1993Apr14.164944.17152@nicmad.uucp> Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp Nntp-Posting-Host: mac19 Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <115040@bu.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 16:49:44 GMT Lines: 48 In article <1993Apr13.025811.2089@samba.oit.unc.edu> Larry London, london@sunSITE.unc.edu writes: >Gosh, Sherry, I guess I'm a day late and a dollar short. If I had >only read your cheery propaganda a few weeks ago I might not have >felt so bad about being 99.99% brain-dead from the excessive amounts >of CCA that rubbed off onto my skin from that great ole' PT lumber >I just built my deck out of. It seems (unbeknownst to _you too_, I'll >bet) that, due to undersupply and overdemand, the lumber industry has been >cutting corners, production-wise. Less milling accuracy, less kiln-drying >time, and....get this....less drying time of the PT lumber after PTing it. >Lots of product has been shipped to retailers with considerable CCA on the >surface of the wood. Poor old unsuspecting Harry C. Homeowner has been >getting a whopping dose of some awfully nasty chemicals. I've used PT >lumber for years but this last batch knocked me for a loop. >If you don't think CCA will get on/in you, your soil, your plants, etc., >think again. Be careful with it. I would not recommend using PT l >indiscriminately and _never_ near food producing gardens or water wells. The key to PT wood is judicious and careful use. For example, there is no reason to build an entire deck out of PT wood. Only those pieces of wood that are in contact with the ground should be PT wood. Rot in other parts of the deck can be prevented with proper construction with non-PT wood. Regardless, PT wood is a dangerous material, just like many pesticides are. It should be treated as a toxic material and anyone using it should take great care in its handling. A dust mask and goggles must be worn to prevent breathing dust and contact with the eyes. Of course gloves and long-sleeved shirts must also be worn. Sawdust and scraps must go to the landfill. The problem is that people only see the benefits of PT wood. Too many treat is as just another building material. In the garden, using PT wood for raised beds increases the risk of soil contamination, but only using PT wood for posts reduces the risk. On the other hand, how does the risk from exposure to PT wood compare to risks from lead in the soil, automotive exhaust or toxic fumes from stain and wood preservative solvents? Obviously we don't want to be exposed to any of these things, but we need to make educated decisions ourselves about what we're willing to expose ourselves to. Bob Klebba Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4 Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu "Feed the soil, not the plant" From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!nwnexus!ole!griff Thu Apr 15 14:57:14 EDT 1993 Article: 15654 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!nwnexus!ole!griff From: griff@ole.cdac.com (Mark Griffin) Subject: Pressure treated lumber repost Message-ID: <1993Apr15.072417.6622@ole.cdac.com> Sender: griff@ole.cdac.com (Mark Griffin) Organization: Cascade Design Automation, Bellevue, WA Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 07:24:17 GMT Lines: 151 This is a repost of an article I read a while ago on this subject that seemed so well documented that it was hard to ignore. I got tweaked into reposting it after reading someone getting flamed about using good 'ol CCA40 by a bozo that seemed to not take much of anything seriously. Hope it helps whoever requested it. griff@cdac.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This was posted in misc.consumers.house a while ago. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: bellas@ttidca.TTI.COM (Pete Bellas) Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,sci.med,misc.kids Subject: Re: Hazards of arsenic in pressure-treated wood used in play equipment Date: 9 Aug 90 17:58:28 GMT Organization: Citicorp/TTI, Santa Monica In article <76@towernet.UUCP> mcg@rigel.uucp (22630-M C Germain(1772)L999) writes: > > >A group of us are building a playground set and the use of pressure-treated >wood had been suggested. I recall a that demonstrated health hazard existed do >to the arsenic and chromium compounds used, both from physical contact of wood >surfaces and from subsequent leaching of arsenic and chromium-containing into >the immediate soil. My concern is that small children, playing on the >playground set, would most certainly come into contact with these compounds, >may put fingers into their mouths, or have snacks without washing up prior to >eating. > >I'm looking for papers and, or other info in the scientific literature which >discusses this issue. I'm proposing to use untreated wood, but to finish it >with a high quality wood preservitive, such as Thompsons. I'd like to present >my case from a position of substantive knowledge. The most common preservatives are creosote, pentachlorophenol and inorganic arsenic salts. The first two are sold as paints for home application, while the third is used primarily in commercial "pressure treated" wood. The terms pressure treated and preserved seem innocuous enough, but the chemicals involved are potent pesticides formulated to repel termites, bacteria and fungi for decades. Although homeowners want their playsets to last, the thought of children playing on poisoned wood is repugnant. It is not surprising, then, that as wood gained popularity as a play structure materiel, preservatives came under close scrutiny. The chemicals are practical and convenient, but are they safe? Ultimately all preservatives pose some risk, although the health hazard varies from potentially serious to negligible. Creosote, the smelly black goo that is smeared on railroad ties and telephone poles is the oldest industrial wood preservative and has been in use for almost 150 years. In laboratory animals it causes skin irritation, cancer and genetic damage; in humans, it has been linked to skin cancer and causes eye and skin irritations, dermatitis and burns. It remains potent for years, moving easily through the wood to affect the soil - and the skin and lungs of anyone who touches it or breathes its vapors. Pentachlorophenol (PCP) is a cleaner alternative to creosote, but is equally suspect from a health standpoint. A member of the same chemical family as 2,4,5-T, it contains dioxins and has caused cancer and birth defects in laboratory animals as well as short term effects such as skin, eye, nose and throat irritations. It is easily inhaled and absorbed through the skin and continues to give off toxic vapors for as long as seven years. The EPA controls the use of both PCP and creosote and recommends sealing any wood that has been contaminated by these preservatives with two coats of urethane, shellac or latex epoxy enamel (shellac is inappropriate for play structures for it is slippery when wet). The pressure treated wood sold in lumber yards is preserved with inorganic arsenic compounds, either chromated copper arsenic (CCA) or ammoniacal copper arsenate (ACA). CCA was developed by Karl Hienrick Wolman in 1913 (hence the term Wolmanized) and has been used for 50 years as an inexpensive alternate to creosote. Associated with rats and lace trimmed old ladies diabolically doing in unsuspecting boarders, "arsenic" strikes a note of uneasiness in most people, but it is a common element in the environment. The form of arsenic used in treated wood is the pentavalent state - the same that is found in shrimp, mushrooms, rice and sardines. In laboratory animals, inorganic arsenic compounds can cause cancer, birth defects and genetic mutations, as well as headaches, dizziness and muscle spasms. But, unlike PCP and creosote, the arsenic preservatives bind tightly to the wood fibers. Studies show that the chemicals do not migrate to the surrounding soil and plant tissue and are not absorbed through human skin. The EPA concluded that pressure treated wood is "safe for frequent contact because absorption through the skin is negligible." The preservative sometimes leaves a bloom of chemical residue on the lumber, and while children cannot absorb the arsenic by directly touching it, their fingers often end up in their mouths. To assess this danger, the California State Department of Health conducted a study in which researchers repeatedly licked their hands after rubbing them over treated wood surfaces. After several days of testing, their urine showed no increase of arsenic even though the measuring device was sensitive enough to detect the effects of a single sardine. The authors of `Evaluation of Risk to Children Using Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment' concluded that kids have as much chance of getting skin cancer from the CCA-treated play equipment as they do from playing in the sun. CCA is probably more of a health risk to parents than to their children since minute amounts of preservative laced sawdust may be inhaled or swallowed during construction. Wear a dust mask when sawing or machining arsenic-preserved wood, and do the work outdoors to avoid contaminating indoor air with preservative dust. Because incineration of treated wood releases arsine, an extremely poisonous gas, wood scraps should never be burned; bury them or take them to an approved dump site. Pressure treating the wood does not inject preservatives right to the core of the lumber; thus, drilled or cut surfaces have to be brushed with at least two coats of liquid preservative. Wear rubber gloves during these applications, avoid dripping the chemical on plants, and wash hands thoroughly after any skin contact to remove any residue. After the structure is built, hose it down with soap and water to remove any surface deposits of chemicals. Though these three account for the bulk of preservatives sold there are alternatives: low toxicity preservatives such as copper and zinc napthanate, copper-8-quinolinolate, polybase, bis[tributyltin]oxide (TBTO), and TBTO/polybase. These are not known carcinogens, are not herbicidal or poisonous in the concentrations used for preserving wood and are relatively stable. All effectively prevent damage from mold, mildew and rot by keeping the wood dry enough to discharge fungi and bacteria. Copper napthanate, the active ingredient in Cuprinol, has been on the market the longest (1948). Often used to treat lumber for greenhouse growing beds, copper napthanate is the only one of the above chemicals rated to withstand constant ground contact. Because it can be difficult to paint over and must be reapplied if the wood cracks, it is better to use copper napthanate below ground, and use zinc napthanate or one of the other water-repellant finishes above ground. These chemicals are not, however, sufficient to protect wood against termites. Termites feast on copper napthanate as readily as they do cedar, leaving CCA treated wood as the only alternative for areas with termite problems. I hope this has helped. -Pete- References: California State Department of Health - "Evaluation of Risk to Children Using Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment' Canadian Institute of Child Health - "Moving and Growing" Home Playgrounds - Merilyn Mohr - Camden House Disclaimer:These are solely the opinions of the author and in no way reflect the opinions of Citicorp or it's management. *Batteries not included, void where prohibited, discontinue reading if a rash develops. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- * Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" * * Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. * * Santa Monica, CA * * Path:{philabs|csun|psivax}!ttidca!bellas or bellas@ttidca.tti.com * -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | "Never trust a man who doesn't play golf." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...........................griff@ole.cdac.com................................ From samba!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!mmm Sat Apr 17 21:18:33 EDT 1993 Article: 15748 of rec.gardens Xref: samba sci.bio:8629 rec.gardens:15748 Path: samba!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!mmm From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) Newsgroups: sci.bio,rec.gardens Subject: Re: Methanol For Plant Growth Message-ID: <79736@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 14:43:53 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <79656@cup.portal.com> Lines: 16 I recently received the following e-mail from someone who has trouble posting: The original article is: Nomura,A.M. and A.A. Benson. 1992. The path of carbon in photo- synthesis: Improved crop yields with methanol. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 89:9794-9798. there was also a summary of this in New Scientist (9 Jan 93, pg15) David Kirschtel Dept of Botany Univ. of Vermont email: dkirscht@moose.uvm.edu From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!psinntp!nstn.ns.ca!ac.dal.ca!macduff Tue Apr 20 10:54:54 EDT 1993 Article: 15776 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!psinntp!nstn.ns.ca!ac.dal.ca!macduff From: macduff@ac.dal.ca Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Shredding bedding for Vermiculture. Message-ID: <1993Apr19.110157.12978@ac.dal.ca> Date: 19 Apr 93 11:01:57 -0300 Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada Lines: 30 G'day I just discovered a neat way of getting shredded newspaper for my vermiculture boxes. A local enviromentally correct store in my area will sell me pre-shredded bedding for about $15.00 cdn. a box. Being enviromental is very expensive around here. Being cheap and not wanting to spend the cash, I set about thinking up a way to shred newspapers myself. The food processor was a big mistake. My wife still isn't talking to me. I started tearing up newspapers in my basement. I was going crazy trying to make yhe pieces small enough to make it easy for the worms to move and eat. One hour later with black hands and a small pail full of shredded newspaper, I looked up and hanging on the wall was my trusty weed wacker. I took it down plugged it in and put it in the garbage can with a lot of newspaper. This thing shredded that newspaper in no time flat. I covered the can with an old raincoat to keep the shredded material from flying all over the place. It also works great on leaves. I shredded a few bags that were in my shed over the winter for my compost outdoors. I don't know if I'm the first person to do this (can't imagine that I am, because it is such a simple concept) , but it works and I thought I would pass it along to the group so that others could try it. Thomas E-MAIL: MACDUFF@AC.DAL.CA Thomas E. Duffett PHONE: (902) 494-3777 Marine Technologist FAX: (902) 494-6889 Dept. of Earth Sciences Dalhousie University Disclaimer: MY OPINION IS MY OWN AND NOT Halifax, Nova Scotia WORTH THE SCREEN IT'S WRITTEN ON !!! CANADA B3H 3J5 From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Tue Apr 20 10:56:32 EDT 1993 Article: 15809 of rec.gardens Xref: samba misc.rural:5087 rec.gardens:15809 Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens Subject: Re: Can compost get too hot? Message-ID: <1993Apr19.170834.12504@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 19 Apr 93 17:08:34 -0600 References: <1993Apr15.130439.25675@mlfarm.com> <1993Apr16.181915.12445@iscsvax.uni.edu> <1993Apr17.161258.28624@mlfarm.com> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 17 In article <1993Apr17.161258.28624@mlfarm.com>, ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence) writes: > klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes: > > I've seen hot manure piles that give a finished compost that's > so "burned" it's useless. > > What characterizes "burned" compost? Others have written that the > high-temperature (pyrophillic) composting microbes are the most > desirable because they kill weed seeds. Yes, but you don't want the temp to get so high you really cook the nitrogen out, and some of these superhot piles look more like ash (grey, powdery) not like good rich compost. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 Tue Apr 20 21:49:01 EDT 1993 Article: 15862 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: More About Deadheading Date: 20 Apr 1993 21:55:53 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 20 Message-ID: <1r1rh9$7m2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu So far, nobody has mentioned roses in the discussion about deadheading. So, what the heck, I'll mention them. Repeat blooming roses such as hybrid teas, floribundas, grandifloras and some shrub and old garden roses such as teas and chinas shuld be deadheaded to encourage bloom until late summer. After that, any hips should be left on the plant; their presence in the fall triggers chemical changes in the plant that help it get ready for winter. Once blooming roses--this includes most old garden roses such as moss, damask, gallica and most species roses-- need not be deadheaded. Once their spring- early summer bloom is over, they're through for the year. Leaving the hips on prepares them for winter too. J. Del Col -- Jeff Del Col * DECONSTRUCTION--- the critical method invented A-B College * by Procrustes Philippi, WV * * From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Fri Apr 23 23:29:30 EDT 1993 Article: 15927 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Latin pronounciation (was reading plant names) Message-ID: <1993Apr21.203759.12595@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 21 Apr 93 20:37:59 -0600 References: <1993Apr5.124619.12081@iscsvax.uni.edu> <1pq4tfINN9r3@borealis.usc.edu> <1993Apr9.155817.12214@iscsvax.uni.edu> <116180@bu.edu> Followup-To: rec.gardens Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 123 In article <116180@bu.edu>, bailey@butyng.bu.edu (Sherry Bailey) writes: > Um-m-m -- that advice on pronouncing Latin plant names is fine as far as it > goes, but my big problem is deciding where the emphasis goes -- which > syllables do you stress? (I'll bet there's a rule -- I learned to read > phonetically in school, but it wasn't Latin we were pronouncing! (OK -- latin > roots!) ) I was distressed to learn it's supposed to be CLEM-a-tis, not > clem-AH-tis! (For example) It's easier to remember WHAT the Latin names > are if you can SAY them right. Sigh. You asked for it. Remember that... everyone else type "next"! Dr. K's guide to botanical Latin, with profuse apologies to Wm. T.Stearn, from whom I cribbed a lot of it. 1. Latin words are divided into syllables. There is one vowel per syllable, with the exception of diphthongs like ae, au, ei, eu, oi and ui. 2. To determine where the accent falls in a word, you must divide it into syllables. If there is a long vowel in the penult, (the next- to-last syllable), the penult gets the accent. (au-STRA-lus, AL-bus). 3. If the penult has a short vowel, the accent goes on the syllable before the penult, the antepenult. (FLO-ri-dus, la-ti-FO-li-a) 4. Diphthongs are treated as long vowels. 5. In Latin, if two vowels that do not form a diphthong come together, the first vowel is short: CAR-ne-us, ME-di-us 6. In words of Greek origin, the opposite holds: gi-gan-TE-us. 7. Watch out for the -inus ending. The i is long in some cases, like al-PIN-us, but short in others: se-RO-ti-nus. Words of Greek derivation usually have the short i in an -inus ending. 8. Best way to find out where the accent belongs is to consult a decent Latin dictionary, or a good flora like Gray's Manual. If the stresses are indicated by a ` (grave), the syllable has a short vowel. If the syllable is accented with a ' it has a long vowel. 9. There are usually some minor accents earlier in the word if it has a bunch of syllables: put them in reasonable places, usually every other syllable.... rosmariniflorus is rose'-mar-in'-i-FLOR-us. 10. You have your choice of pronounciations of letters. Stearn gives "reformed academic" ("classical") and "traditional English" which is next door to my church latin. classical traditional long a father fate short a apart fat ae as ai in aisle as ea in meat au as ou in house as aw in bawl c cat K before a, o, u (cat) S before e, i, y (center) ch in greek words as K or as k-h k or ch long e they me short e pet pet ei rein height g go G before a, o, u (go) J before e, i, y (gem) long i machine ice short i pit pit consonant i "y" as in yellow j ng finger finger long o note note short o not not oe as oi in toil as ee in bee ph as p or p-h if possible f r always trilled (how do you trill???) s sit, gas sit, gas t table, native t at beginning, but like ti in nation in middle long u brute brute short u full tub ui as the French "oui" ruin v (consonant u) W V long y u as in French pur as long i in cipher short y as in French du as y in cynical If you're a true "church latinist", "cie" is "ch", not "s" or "k" Now, as to pronouncing names that are stolen from other languages or were once peoples' names, you're kinda on your own. Try to get it to an approximation of the original language OR try to come up with something that doesn't land with a dull thud on the ear. "Warszeiczella" can be rendered "var-she-vi-CHEL-la". One other problem. -ii or -iae endings can be tricky, since if you apply the penult/antepenult rule, you need to put the accent on the last syllable of the latinized personal name, which is usually where it doesn't belong. So people cut some slack on that rule when dealing with -ii and -iae endings. Finally, words of wisdom from Stearn: "Botanical Latin is essentially a written language, but the scientific names of plants often occur in speech. How they are pronounced really matters little provided they sound pleasant and are understood by all concerned..." Ah-men! Dona nobis pacem! (at least on this topic!) Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!rock!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!butyng.bu.edu!bailey Fri Apr 23 23:32:45 EDT 1993 Article: 15930 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!rock!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!butyng.bu.edu!bailey From: bailey@butyng.bu.edu (Sherry Bailey) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Sappho rhododendron Message-ID: <116328@bu.edu> Date: 21 Apr 93 19:26:24 GMT Sender: news@bu.edu Organization: Boston University Corp Ed Center Lines: 23 Someone asked about the Sappho azalea for a client, I think. I looked in my azalea & rhododendron books last night and found a Sappho rhododendron (I guess it's a named variety -- no scientific name other than Sappho given in two different books). Here are the salient bits from the descriptions: Rhododendron hybrid -- Sappho Elepidote white flowers with distinctive deep purple blotch compact domed truss vigorous tall medium narrow olive-green leaves midseason bloom open growth habit hardy to -5/-10 degrees F I hope that helps. Sherry From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!behlert Sun Apr 25 23:47:51 EDT 1993 Article: 16035 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!behlert From: behlert@nyx.cs.du.edu (Brian Ehlert) Subject: Re: Hydroponics Message-ID: <1993Apr25.032823.24808@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1993Apr24.061741.13886@phx.mcd.mot.com> Distribution: usa Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 03:28:23 GMT Lines: 22 In article <1993Apr24.061741.13886@phx.mcd.mot.com> schuch@phx.mcd.mot.co (John Schuch) writes: >Does anyone know of any good books or mail-order sources for information >and supplies for hydroponic vegatable gardening? I've checked our local >librarys, nurseries, and have watched this group for a FAQ. > >Thanks, >John > There are tons of info. on hydroponics. Depending on how complex or simple you want to be. I worked for a hydroponic outfit in FL for 9 months and there are all kinds of things out there. e-mail me and let me know some more specifics on what you are looking for. I have a few sources in mind. ehlert@msuces.canr.msu.edu - Bri From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!well!lp Tue Apr 27 23:18:23 EDT 1993 Article: 16096 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!well!lp From: lp@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond) Subject: Re: Aquatic Gardening Supply Sources Message-ID: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Nntp-Posting-Host: well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link References: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 20:12:03 GMT Lines: 25 In article wes@sscvx1 (Wes Smith) writes: >Greetings Gardeners! > >As the title suggests, I'm looking for mail-order catalogues for ordering >supplies for a garden pond. I'm particularly interested in the >manufactured ponds that can be set right into a raised bed. If anyone has >reccomendations on supply sources local to Dallas - Ft. Worth, please share >those also. > >I apologize if this is a FAQ or the wrong newsgroup. If this is the case, >please direct me to the proper info. > >Wes Smith (E-mail wes@sscvx1.ssc.gov) Lilypons in Texas 800-765-5459 slocum 813-293-7151 van ness 714-982-2425 tricker 216-524-3491 paradise 617-447-4711 From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat May 1 23:20:24 EDT 1993 Article: 16056 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Bulb catalogs Message-ID: <1993Apr25.204918.12689@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 25 Apr 93 20:49:18 -0600 References: <1993Apr25.203739.12688@iscsvax.uni.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 42 I keep coming back to certain bulb specialists over the years. I know there are many more *good* companies out there, but I've had excellent results with bulbs from these firms. > DUTCH GARDENS > PO Box 588 > Farmingdale, NJ 07727 > Cat $0; magnificent color photos of all cvs offered, good > range of good imported Dutch bulbs at excellent prices. My choice for people who want to make a BIG splash with common species (tulips, crocus, hyacinths, etc.) without putting a permanent dent in their credit cards. Good stuff, and the prices get even better as you buy more. They will accept group orders: one person collects orders & money from several people, and orders come packaged for each person. > JOHN SCHEEPERS, INC > PO Box 700 > Bantam, CT 06750 > 203-567-0838 > Well-established firm with good cv list Scheepers seems to have more than the average number of bulbs available in "exhibition grade". This is the grade to buy when you want to make a major impression on someone... but it'll cost you... > > McCLURE AND ZIMMERMAN > 108 W. Winnebago > PO Box 368 > Friesland, WI 53935 > 414 326-5769 > good range of cultivars, uncommon species The place I usually go when I'm looking for species I haven't grown yet... personally, I'd sooner grow the species than most of the cultivars... Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!behlert Sat May 1 23:33:44 EDT 1993 Article: 16235 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!behlert From: behlert@nyx.cs.du.edu (Brian Ehlert) Subject: Homeowner Attitudes toward Pesticides Message-ID: <1993Apr29.122252.26073@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 12:22:52 GMT Lines: 72 I thought that I would include this article for your information and attention. All agencies mentioned in this article are U.S. This is on the heels of continuing legislation to regulate pesticide use by commercial applicators and farmers. The National Home and Garden Pesticide Use Survey, conducted by the Research Triangle institute for the EPA, surveyed 2,674 households in 58 counties, from 29 states, including 2,078 household visits to gather field data. Those in the field of urban horticulture were not surprised by the survey's findings. The first surprise to EPA officials was that up to a million households still store canceled pesticide products such as DDT, chlordane, heptachlor, and silvex. This information will be used in support for requesting funding for future household hazardous waste collections. Another surprise concerned the safety of children around household pesticide products. Children under the age of five, in 47% of the households, had easy access to at least one pesticide stored less than four feet off the ground in an unlocked cabinet. Whereas households without young children, 25%, securely stores pesticides. EPA's work with the Consumer Product Safety Commission on child resistant packaging will provide welcomed and necessary packaging improvements. The next surprise regarded pesticide use around the home. The only safety precaution 60 - 90% of the survey respondents said they took when applying chemicals was washing their hands afterward. Yet, 33% or less took further precautions, such as wearing impermeable gloves, long pants or a long-sleeved shirt while handling or applying pesticides. Their personal safety is one issue. Households also scored low in the environmental safety category. Disposal of concentrated pesticides was accomplished in a variety of ways: 67% used the regular trash services; 16% used special collections; 17% either gave it away; poured it down the sink or toilet, on the street, in the gutter, sewer or on the ground. This would make most people consider promoting professional pesticide services that have to go through some minimum level of pesticide training, certification, and business licensing. This may be a future trend. It appears that 15% of American households utilized professional pesticide application services in the early 1990's. The services included either lawn and garden treatments, home-invading insect treatments or both. About half of the households were told what products were used and about safety precautions when a lawn or yard treatment was made, yet only 20% of the households were informed of the insecticide used in their homes, and only 23% were given safety precautions in reference to indoor treatments. Regulations will influence professional communications and behavior, reinforced by education through PAT (pesticide applicator training). This was taken from a Michigan State University Crop Advisory Team Alert. A newsletter to keep extension personnel, commercial applicators, and growers informed about pest problems throughout the growing seasons. This study reinforces the certified pesticide applicators opinion that the american general public is the largest abuser of pesticides. The EPA was surprised at the findings. I hope the above created some food for thought. I will appreciate any feedback. - Bri From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!raistlin!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv Sat May 1 23:38:38 EDT 1993 Article: 16334 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!raistlin!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Subject: Re: HELP, pesticide resistant Whitefly Message-ID: <1993Apr30.160604.14011@walter.cray.com> Lines: 36 Sender: gwv@eastrg2 (George Vandenberghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: eastrg2-gate.cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: <1rooef$a27@hpavla.lf.hp.com> Date: 30 Apr 93 16:06:03 CDT In article <1rooef$a27@hpavla.lf.hp.com>, warchol@lf.hp.com (Andy Warchol) writes: |> The Hibiscus in my bedroom garden is infested with |> a strain of Whitefly which seemes resistant to pesticide. |> I've tried THREE different sprays and a systemic with |> no results. I haven't used a lot of any of the the poisons. |> Should I up the applications or am I dealing with the Whiteflies |> from Hell? |> Any suggestions appreciated!! |> |> Andy Warchol at HP Avondale I had whiteflies on my houseplants in 1991/1992. They disappared during the summer when I took them outside. I bought a dustbuster in the fall and have been itching to try it on whiteflies but last winter they failed to appear. Try vacuuming with the nozzle near the plants and then shaking the plant so the whiteflies get drawn to their deaths. Now for more traditional remedies. Whiteflies are attracted to yellow. If you coat a yellow board or surface with thick oil or thin grease, they will fly to it, stick, and die. Do not use this method if you have pets or children however (I have two cats) My personal experience has been that whiteflies and showers and high humidity are incompatible especially with large populations. The larvae die of fungus infections and the adults don't seem to like to get wet either. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat May 1 23:41:33 EDT 1993 Article: 16305 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Can you 'ungreen' potatoes Message-ID: <1993Apr30.114725.12796@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 30 Apr 93 11:47:25 -0600 References: <1993Apr27.190253.8651@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 21 In article , lcole@well.sf.ca.us (Len Coleman) writes: > Would somebody please expand on the green potato problem? I often heard > that green potatos were not good to eat, but I often buy potatos by the > bag, and usually some of them are definitely green in color. > > What is a green potato? Why is a green potato not good to eat? Are > green potatos unsafe to eat? The green parts of a potato plant (including leaves and stems) make a group of alkaloids. Solanine is one of the major alkaloids -- and it's +/- toxic depending on dosage, weight of the person/animal consuming the plant, and how much of the alkaloids the plant has made (a function of both genetics and environment). Potato tubers are really just modified stems, so, as you might expect, solanine can accumulate there also if the tubers are exposed to light long enough to start photosynthesizing. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bj368 Sat May 1 23:45:23 EDT 1993 Article: 16234 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bj368 From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: kudzu Date: 29 Apr 1993 11:14:39 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 40 Message-ID: <1rodav$gka@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu This is a perfect example of American narrowmindedness and mush brained acquiescence to the agrivulture chemical conglomerate and their cooperative usda agri agents. Try reading a book called The Book of Kudzu by Shurtleff. In Japan there are at least 20 different uses for a plant which by all objective views is one of the friendliest to man and animal, leaves for fodder, variety of foods and medicines for humans, etc. Meanwhile the U.S. covers over 20 acres per hour of natural ground to erect buildings, parking lots, etc. Here we see the usual abhorrence to ....what...a fast growing plant!!!! The forest service is millions of acres behind in tree planting, the list is endless. It has taken me all of 15 minutes to dig up kudzu plants which have been growing for ten years or more, including the roots, with nothing returning. It =does= take a little elbow grease, however. Let's look at the average American backing further and further from nature, from that kudzu plant for example, while between him and that plant are an increasing array of herbicides and other chemicals. I've got it: the paint pellet gun game can be converted so that eager americans can walk through the woods shooting pellets of herbicide at kudzu vines. Mike Romano -- Sir, I admit your gen'ral rule That every poet is a fool; But you yourself may serve to show it, That every fool is not a poet. A. Pope From samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.centerline.com!uunet!well!well.sf.ca.us!lcole Sat May 1 23:57:25 EDT 1993 Article: 16299 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.centerline.com!uunet!well!well.sf.ca.us!lcole From: lcole@well.sf.ca.us (Len Coleman) Subject: Re: kudzu Message-ID: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Nntp-Posting-Host: well.sf.ca.us Organization: The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA References: <1993Apr26.175356.11986@news.stolaf.edu> <12635@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> Distribution: usa Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 15:43:18 GMT Lines: 5 I believe that Kudzu is sometimes grown for food. In addition to the above reference to its leaves, I think the root makes a high quality flour. Isn't there a _Book of Kudzu_ by the folks that brought us the _Book of Tofu_? From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 Sun May 2 00:01:31 EDT 1993 Article: 16335 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: horned melons??? Date: 30 Apr 1993 23:20:40 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 29 Message-ID: <1rsc88$lh1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <30APR93.14420425.0020@MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU> Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, HI23AHG@MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU (HI23AHG) says: >While I was in a local market I bought a small fruit called >a horned melon. It looked like a short, fat, ripe cucumber >that was covered with small horns. I saved the seeds and it >seems every one I planted as germinated. Now I have no idea >what to expect. Does anyone out there have any suggestions. >Our library does not have Cornucopia. I would like to know its >growing habit. An interesting note: Not too long ago on Star >Trek as the bad aliens were at the conference table each one >had one of these little fruits with a straw inserted in his >hand. They do look out of this worldish. >Thanks in advance, >Phil Mueller >Tulane University > > Phil: It's also known as a "Kiwano" It's a cucumber/melon hybrid, and it probably won't grow true to type. Cucumber culture ought to suit it. J. Del Col -- Jeff Del Col * DECONSTRUCTION--- the critical method invented A-B College * by Procrustes Philippi, WV * * From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bj368 Sun May 2 00:02:50 EDT 1993 Article: 16351 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bj368 From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: kudzu Date: 1 May 1993 13:05:43 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 31 Message-ID: <1rtsj7$ncv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu Man destroys far more trees per day than kudzu could in a year. Especially in the US. It's called logging, development, etc. Let's see we have a few million out of work at this point in the US (just a few of course) and instead of dumping chemicals on plants to "protect the ecosystem", such as kudzu, water hyacinth, hydrilla, etc....how about putting a few of those millions to work doing healthy outdoor work, removing, harvesting, processing or composting those plants? Naaa. FDR did that in the 30s, up to 600,000 of them in the WPA many of whom worked in similar ways, replanting forests, restoring riparian areas, etc. But hey, that's too much like socialism. And think of the losses to the agrichemical businesses. Of course, a don't suppose the botanists are capable of developing a flowerless, seedless variety of kudzu which could then be grown safely in any area and the much needed biomass could be used for a variety of things including feed, medicine, etc. They are very busy these days inventing new plants with biogenetics, tomatoes that don't spoil, etc. -- Sir, I admit your gen'ral rule That every poet is a fool; But you yourself may serve to show it, That every fool is not a poet. A. Pope From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!raistlin!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!cherry10!dadams Mon May 3 22:32:05 EDT 1993 Article: 16431 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!raistlin!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!cherry10!dadams From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams) Subject: Amaranth Message-ID: <1993May3.125818.3319@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 61 Nntp-Posting-Host: cherry10 Reply-To: dadams@cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. Date: 3 May 93 12:58:18 CDT I just got arround to reading Ogranic Gardening's April edition article on Amaranth. It is a very interesting article. I get the notion from reading the article that this is one plant that was known in the Americas before Columbus, as well as in the old world. The article mentions that there are two main species of grain amaranth, _Amaranthus cruentus_ and _Amaranthus hypochondriacus_. I make the hypothesis, after reading the article that _A. cruentus is the new world variety. (I make this hypothesis after noting that several of the _A. cruentus_ varieties are available from Native Seed. So I could be off base--It is just a wild guess.) Can anybody provide more information? Also, does anybody know of any sources for amaranth seed beyond those given in the article. (I like having a phone number--none of these have a phone number.) Also, does anybody have any information on millet, Quionia, or other small grains? Here are the sources they listed. Abundant Life Seed Foundation P.O. Box 772 Port Townsend, WA 98368 Catalog $2 Johnny's Selected Seeds 310 Foss Hill Road Albion, ME 09410 Free Catalog Native Seed/SEARCH 2509 N. Campbell Ave. Tucson, AZ 85719 Catalog $1 Park Seed Co. Cokesbury Road Greenwood, SC 29647 Free catalog Salt Spring Seeds Box 33 Ganges, BC Canada VOS 1E0 Catalog $2 Seeds of Change 1364 Ruffina Circle #5 Santa Fe, NM 87501 Catalog $3. --- --David C. Adams Statistician Cray Research Inc. dadams@cray.com They moved all the streets around while you were sleeping last night. From samba!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!star.dec.com!dipirro Mon May 3 22:33:57 EDT 1993 Article: 16434 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!star.dec.com!dipirro From: dipirro@star.dec.com (Steve DiPirro) Subject: Beneficial Nematodes Message-ID: <1993May3.201553.10080@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd.lkg.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 20:04:38 GMT Lines: 43 I purchased 10 million nematodes (roughly 600 sq. ft. worth) from Gardens Alive! recently. I bought them primarily to rid myself of wire worms, especially from my potato beds. Of course, I also had numerous other pests in my soil that the nematodes were supposed to take care of too. I saw this as a bonus, making it well worth the investment. The nematodes were supposed to take 24-48 hours, if I read correctly, to take care of the problem. However, 4 days after treatment, while digging in my potato beds, I encountered a few wire worms. So I'm seeking advice from anyone who's used these things before. Perhaps I misunderstood and they take longer than I expected. Or perhaps I did something wrong during the application...as a few things didn't go according to plan. The directions recommended, for best results, that the nematodes be applied when temperatures were greater than 55 degrees F. When I started the effort of coaxing the nematodes out of their sponge home into lukewarm water, the temperature was about 60. However, by the time I was ready to spray, the temp. had dropped to 50. As directed, I watered the soil before application and after application. I'm sure I mixed the stuff in lukewarm water correctly. I applied the nematodes 2 days after receiving them in the mail. So my main concern is the temperature. Not only was it 50 degress when I applied them, but the temperature dropped below freezing that night (around 30 degrees). There was a light frost. I watered twice daily (morning and evening) every day since applying the nematodes, but the instructions said nothing about any potential problem with temperatures too cool...only that best results would be achieved if you stayed within the described parameters. Short of calling Gardens Alive! and asking them, I'm wondering if others have experience using these things. Obviously, this was my first time venturing into biological warfare. ------------ Steve DiPirro dipirro@star.enet.dec.com /\ USE THIS || ADDRESS, not what's in the header ------------ From samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Mon May 3 22:36:10 EDT 1993 Article: 16444 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Rose Propagation Question Message-ID: <1993May3.190455.12894@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 3 May 93 19:04:55 -0600 References: Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 22 In article , ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil (Tom Dugan) writes: ... description of pepsi bottle greenhouse construction... > Take a very sharp knife or razor and cut off the top of the bottle > above the point where it begins to taper toward the neck. Invert and push onto > the bottle base. Nice little greenhouse, eh? A similar trick is to fill a clay pot with rooting medium (I use sand for most things) and sink the sand-filled clay pot inside a larger plastic pot. Jam long-strand sphagnum moss between the clay pot and the plastic pot. Water well. The sphagnum serves as a reservoir for water -- if you overwater, the sphagnum takes it up, and if you forget for a couple of days, the sphagnum releases water and keeps the rooting medium moist. Then cover the double-pot assemblage with a plastic bag to raise the humidity. In dry climates, I've just put the whole thing in a big bag, then blown up the bag and tied the top... in more humid climates, I just drape the plastic bag over some stakes that support the bag over the cuttings, leaving some "breathing spaces" so the assemblage doesn't change from a rooting chamber to a fungus factory... ;-) Kay Klier From samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Mon May 3 23:00:02 EDT 1993 Article: 16449 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: How to tell a legume (was purple lupine) Message-ID: <1993May3.194403.12897@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 3 May 93 19:44:03 -0600 References: <48687@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 50 > cs177saq@sdcc5.ucsd.edu (David Koresh) writes: >>Hello. Is Purple Lupine Nitrogen Fixing? Maybe yes, maybe no. Don't have the reference I need at hand, but check Allen, ON and Allen, EK. 1981. The Leguminosae: a source book of characteristics, uses & nodulation. U. Wisconsin Press, Madison. >>Is there any eazy way to tell, beside nodules, if a plant >>is in the Leguminose family? Not all legumes fix nitrogen... (surprise!) There are three big subfamilies of legumes (or three families that are very closely related, if you prefer...) Most plants in all three groups have compound leaves, some with 3 leaflets, some with many more. The leaves are alternately arranged (1 leaf per node) and have stipules (a pair of "little leaflets" at the base of a leaf). They can be trees, shrubs, vines, herbs.... All of the legumes have a fruit that is a legume (a single carpellate ovary dehiscing along one seam), or closely derived types of fruits, like the "indehiscent legumes" of Kentucky Coffee Tree or Honey Locust, or the legumes that break cross-wise into one-seeded segments ("loments") like you see in Desmodium (tick-trefoil). The biggest group in the temperate zone is the subfamily Papilionoideae (=Faboideae) or family Fabaceae, if you prefer. These generally have bilaterally symmetrical flowers with 5 joined sepals, a large "banner petal", two "wing petals" and two petals fused together to form a "keel". Inside the keel, you'll find a single carpellate ovary that looks (mostly) like a medieval pointed-toe shoe. Surrounding the ovary are 10 stamens. Nine are fused by their filaments ("stalks") into an almost complete tube; the tenth stamen is free from the others. Going into warm temperate areas you begin to see the Caesalpinioideae (or Caesalpiniaceae) more prominently. This is mainly a woody group, and includes Cassia (partridge pea) and Cercis (redbud). The flowers can be quite bean-like, as in redbuds, or more open, like Cassia flowers. Again, 5 sepals, 5 petals and 10 stamens -- but the stamens are not fused. Same ovary structure. The last subfamily, the Mimosoideae (=Mimosaceae), is again mainly woody, but the flowers have _very_ small petals and sepals and _very large_ stamens. The stamen number is variable in this subfamily, and they are not fused. Same ovary structure, though. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Wed May 5 23:59:34 EDT 1993 Article: 16453 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Apple Tree Questions (basic) Message-ID: <1993May3.200614.12899@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 3 May 93 20:06:14 -0600 References: <1s3sv8$6m4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 27 In article <1s3sv8$6m4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ce398@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joseph Richmeyer) writes: > > Apple Tree - Basic Questions > > I recently planted a dwarf red delicious apple tree. I now > understand that I need a male and a female to produce fruit. I > don't believe any neighbors have apple trees. My questions are: > > -How can you tell a female tree from a male apple tree? Uh, no. Apples are bisexual. The stamens are the male parts of the flowers, the pistil is the female part. Many fruit trees require a different cultivar for cross-pollination. For instance, in pears, Pear A has to be pollinated with pollen from Pear B to bear fruit. And Pear B has to be pollinated with pollen from A to have fruit. I don't recall whether red delicious is "self-fruitful" (the nursery term) or requires another variety for pollination. Too many apple trees around in my part of the world to worry about needing a pollen source! ;-) > > -Can a dwarf pollenate a standard apple tree? > Sure can. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!bigtop!drutx!bootleg!kjv Thu May 6 00:01:01 EDT 1993 Article: 16462 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!bigtop!drutx!bootleg!kjv From: kjv@bootleg.dr.att.com (NB7242000-VolzKJ(DR9278)238) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Bush cherries Message-ID: <24716@drutx.ATT.COM> Date: 3 May 93 18:11:19 GMT References: <9305031149.AA20982@im4> Sender: news@drutx.ATT.COM Lines: 25 In response to your posting on planting nanking cherries ... I planted 50 nanking cherry bushes (rather they were cherry sticks, (bare root plants) along my fence line 2 years ago. They are now very thick bushes which are ~ 5-6ft tall with lots of blooms. The cherries I could get from these would be great, except the birds and squirrels also like the nanking cherries. The cherries taste fine they are not the best but they are edible. I also planted sand cherries (~50) last year but I expect to get cherries this year, the sand cherries are supposed to be sweeter. I also have chokecherries but they are not what I would call off the bush/tree edible, the choke cherries are best if they are processed (canned). The key to my success with cherries has been the following: well prepared soil (compost, peat, sand, soil, mixed ) a drip system (Colorado summers are very dry here) mulch to keep the weeds at bay electric fence to keep the crazed deer at bay Cheers Karl Volz Lafayette, Colorado From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu May 6 00:03:42 EDT 1993 Article: 16487 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: How to tell a legume (was purple lupine) Message-ID: <1993May4.075126.12913@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 4 May 93 07:51:26 -0600 References: <48687@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> <1993May3.194403.12897@iscsvax.uni.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 14 In article <1993May3.194403.12897@iscsvax.uni.edu>, klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes: > The last subfamily, the Mimosoideae (=Mimosaceae), is again mainly woody, > but the flowers have _very_ small petals and sepals and _very large_ stamens. > The stamen number is variable in this subfamily, and they are not fused. > Same ovary structure, though. OOPS! Completion of partial thought... The mimosoid legumes are notorious for their "powderpuff flowers" (actually the powderpuff fluff is the stamens of a whole cluster of tiny flowers). Typical flower colors in the mimosoids are pinks and reds or bright yellow. Kay From samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news.dell.com!pmafire!mica-nsf.inel.gov!kkv Thu May 6 00:04:10 EDT 1993 Article: 16514 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news.dell.com!pmafire!mica-nsf.inel.gov!kkv From: kkv@inel.gov (Jamie J Ferguson) Subject: Re: Apple Tree Questions (basic) Message-ID: <1993May4.172938.9179@inel.gov> Organization: Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, Idaho References: <1s3sv8$6m4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993May3.200614.12899@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: Tue, 4 May 93 17:29:38 GMT Lines: 19 Red Delicious apple trees are NOT self-pollinating, but Golden Delicious are. We bought a Golden Delicious and a McIntosh, one a dwarf and the other a semi-dwarf. So far they've just barely managed to survive the dogs (who seem to think dwarf trees are pretty neat -- you don't even have to try to reach the branches) but we've fenced off the one tree the dogs like so hopefully all will work out! We decided to buy two apple trees because we don't know for sure if there are apple trees within a quarter-mile (the range the nursery recommended). We also got a dwarf sweet cherry tree that is self-pollinating. You might want to consider a second tree if you don't have any apple-growing neighbors. Jamie --- The views and opinions expressed herein are personal and are not necessarily those of the United States Government or any of its agencies or contractors. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!udel!news.intercon.com!psinntp!laidbak!binford!ftpbox!mothost!isunix.cdx.mot.com!merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com!yasin Thu May 6 00:05:46 EDT 1993 Article: 16522 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!udel!news.intercon.com!psinntp!laidbak!binford!ftpbox!mothost!isunix.cdx.mot.com!merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com!yasin From: yasin@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Yasin Qamaruddin) Subject: Help! Need info on landscaping SW packages Message-ID: <1993May4.141950.23927@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com> Originator: yasin@laser.dev.cdx.mot.com Keywords: landscape Sender: news@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Merlin News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: laser.dev.cdx.mot.com Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 14:19:50 GMT Lines: 14 Can a kind soul please guide me to the source of FAQ. Also if any of you know of any shareware or other Software packages which will help to design a landscape designs. Appreciate your effort and time. Regards, Yasin. -- This has nothing to do with my employer. yasin@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com From samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!mcg2 Sun May 9 13:17:54 EDT 1993 Article: 16821 of rec.gardens Xref: samba rec.pets.dogs:32507 rec.pets.cats:25565 rec.gardens:16821 Path: samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!mcg2 From: mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel) Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs,rec.pets.cats,rec.gardens Subject: FAQ: Lyme Disease Summary: Lyme Disease FAQ Keywords: Lyme FAQ Message-ID: <1993May8.180731.87455@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: 8 May 93 18:07:31 GMT Expires: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 12:00:00 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 215 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] Archive LYMENET-L: file faq, part 1/1, size 11861 bytes: ------------------------------ Cut here ------------------------------ Archive-name: LymeNet-L faq Archive-site: listserv@Lehigh.EDU Last-modified: 1993/04/25 =====----- Lyme Disease - General Information and FAQ -----===== Lyme disease is an illness caused by a spirochete bacteria, Borrelia burgdorferi, which is transmitted to animals and man through the bite of infected ticks. The disease is reported worldwide and throughout the United States. The states of New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island and New Jersey account for the majority of cases in the United States. However, cases are reported from all geographic regions of the country. Different ticks are carriers in the different regions. Ixodes dammini (the deer tick) in the Northeast and midwest, Ixodes scapularis (the black-legged tick) in the South, Ixodes pacificus (the western black-legged tick) in the West and Amblyomma americanum (the lone star tick) found in several regions are all considered vectors. The is growing concern that Dermacentor variabilis (the American dog tick) may also be capable of transmitting the disease. Transmission by biting insects (flies, fleas, mosquitos) is speculated but appears to be quite rare. Not all ticks are infected. Infection rates in tick populations vary by tick species and geographic region from as few as two percent to 90 percent or more. THE DEER TICK Ixodes dammini is responsible for most of the cases of Lyme disease in the northeastern United States. These ticks are found in grassy areas (including lawns), and in brushy, shrubby and woodland sites, even on warm winter days. They prefer areas where some moisture is present. The tick has three life stages: larva, nymph and adult. Each stage takes a single blood meal. They feed on a variety of warm blooded animals including man, dogs, cats, horses and cows. The bite is painless so most victims do not know they have been bitten. The nymphal stage appears to be responsible for most Lyme disease cases. Both the larval stage (about the size of a grain of sand) and nymphal stage (about the size of a poppy seed) attach to a variety of small mammals, but prefer the white-footed mouse, the main reservoir of the Lyme disease bacteria. The adult ticks (about the size of a sesame seed) prefer to feed on white-tailed deer. The entire life cycle requires three separate hosts and takes about two years to complete. Larval and nymphal deer ticks also attach to birds. Indeed, birds may be a primary means by which the ticks (some infected) are spread from one area to another. Some species of birds also function as a reservoir of infection. LYME DISEASE SYMPTOMS IN MAN In about 50% of the cases a characteristic rash or lesion called erythema migrans is seen. It begins a few days to a few weeks after the bite of an infected tick. The rash generally looks like an expanding red ring. It is often described as looking like a bull's-eye with alternating light and dark rings. However, it can vary from a reddish blotchy appearance to red throughout. And can be confused with poison ivy, spider or insect bite, or ringworm. At about the same time that the rash develops, flu-like symptoms may appear with headache, sore throat, stiff neck, fever, muscle aches, fatigue and general malaise. Some people develop the flu-like illness without getting a rash. Seek prompt medical attention if any of these symptoms appear, especially after being bitten by a tick or visiting an area where Lyme disease is common. If possible document the presence of the rash by taking a picture because it may disappear before a physician can see it. A picture in this case is worth 10,000 words! If ignored, the early symptoms may disappear, but more serious problems can develop months to years later. The later symptoms of Lyme disease can be quite severe and chronic. Muscle pain and arthritis, usually of the large joints is common. Neurological symptoms include meningitis, numbness, tingling, and burning sensations in the extremities, Bell's palsy (loss of control of one or both sides of the face), severe pain and fatigue (often extreme and incapacitating) and depression. Heart, eye, respiratory and gastrointestinal problems can develop. Symptoms are often intermittent lasting from a few days to several months and sometimes years. Chronic Lyme disease, because of its diverse symptoms, mimics many other diseases and can be difficult to diagnose. TREATMENT Lyme disease is treated with antibiotics. Timely treatment increases chances of recovery and may lessen the severity of any later symptoms in both animals and man. The most effective treatment will be recommended by your physician or in the case of your animals by your veterinarian and will depend on the stage of the disease. Treatment for later stages is more difficult often requiring extended and repeated courses of antibiotic therapy. In animals and man treatment failures and relapses are reported. HOW TO AVOID TICK BITES When out of doors several precautions can minimize your chances of being bitten. * Tuck your pant legs into your socks and your shirt into your pants. * Wear light colored clothing. Dark ticks are more easily spotted against a light background. * Inspect clothes often for ticks. Have a companion inspect your back. * Apply repellents according to label instructions. Applying directly to clothing appears to be most effective. * Upon returning to the home remove clothing and wash or put it in the dryer for 30 minutes to kill any ticks. * When you get in from the field shower and inspect your body thoroughly. Especially check groin, navel, armpits, head and behind knees and ears. Have a companion check your back, or use a mirror. * Inspect children at least once daily for ticks. When in heavily infested areas inspect children every three to four hours. * When hiking stay in the middle of trails. Do not bushwhack. * Clear brush from around your premises and keep grassy areas mown. * Avoid plantings that especially attract deer and other animals. * Limit watering of lawns. * Judicious use of environmental insecticides to kill ticks may be necessary in some areas. LYME DISEASE IN DOMESTIC ANIMALS Lyme disease has been described in dogs, cats, horses cows and goats. Symptoms can include fever, lameness and soreness, listlessness, loss of appetite, swollen glands and joints. Heart, kidney, liver, eye and nervous system problems are also described in animals. Laminitis is reported in horses and cows, as are poor fertility, abortions and chronic weight loss. Temperament changes have been reported in dogs and horses. Untreated animals can develop chronic progressive arthritis. Symptoms can be intermittent and vary in intensity from mild to quite severe and can mimic many other conditions. If you suspect Lyme disease in your animals consult your veterinarian as soon as possible. WHERE TO FIND TICKS ON ANIMALS Ticks are most commonly found around the head and neck. They can also be found between the toes, on or in the ears, and in the armpit and groin areas. Because the ticks are so small, you must look very carefully. In animals the symptoms of illness may not develop for several weeks or months following tick bite. If you travel into tick infested areas with your animals, it is possible to bring home on the animals ticks that can infest your premises. If animals in your area develop Lyme disease it should alert you that you are also at risk. TICK CONTROL ON ANIMALS * As much as possible keep animals out of tick habitat. * Check animals daily for ticks and remove any found promptly. * Dogs and cats can be brushed as soon as they come in. Brush over a light colored surface so any ticks removed can be seen and discarded. * The most effective method to protect animals from infection and to keep those that travel from bringing ticks home is the regular use of tick repellent and control products. Permethrin, sold under many brand names, is very effective for tick control. Veterinary assistance is important in selecting safe and effective tick control products and designing a control program. HOW TO REMOVE ATTACHED TICKS FROM PEOPLE AND ANIMALS Prompt removal of ticks decreases the chances of getting Lyme disease. The proper and easiest method is to grasp the tick with fine tweezers, as near the skin as you can, and gently pull it straight out. Be careful not to squeeze the tick when removing it which could result in more bacteria being injected. Do not try to remove the tick with your fingers or attempt to remove with lighted cigarettes, matches, nail polish, or vaseline. Once removed save the tick for identification. Accurate identification becomes very important if you or your animals develop disease symptoms. Proof of tick bite and the kind of tick doing the biting is especially important to document in areas where Lyme disease is not considered prevalent and doctor suspicion is low. In most areas, ticks can be submitted for identification through local or state health department offices. Many physicians and veterinarians will also submit ticks. Put the tick in a tightly closed container with a small amount of alcohol (rubbing alcohol will do). Mark it with your name, address and phone number, date collected, host collected from (animal or man) and recent travel history. NOTES * The diagnosis of Lyme disease must generally be made on the basis of clinical signs and by ruling out other possible diseases. * Animal ownership does not directly increase a person's risk of Lyme disease. However, allowing your animals to roam in tick habitat or venturing into tick habitat with your animals does increase your risk of exposure to ticks. * Lyme disease is not considered to be contagious between people or directly from animals to man. * Although some deaths have been attributed to Lyme disease, it is not generally considered to be fatal. * Once an animal or person has apparently recovered from the disease it appears to be possible to be reinfected. * Blood testing is available for animals and man. A positive test can be diagnostic when appropriate symptoms are present. However, it is possible to have a negative test during the course of the disease or following antibiotic therapy and still have Lyme disease. A negative test following treatment does not indicate cure. * Miscarriage, premature births, still births, birth defects and transplacental infection of the fetus have been reported in animals and man. * Vaccination for dogs is now available. Consult your veterinarian for advice about your dog's need for vaccination. A vaccine for people appears to be several years away. FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION * State and local health departments * Your veterinarian or family physician * Local Lyme Disease support and informational groups can be found in many areas * Lyme Disease Foundation, Inc. P.O. Box 462 Tolland, Connecticut 06084 (203) 871-2900 (800) 886-LYME * The Lyme Disease Electronic Mail Network publishes the "LymeNet Newsletter" once every 10-15 days. The Newsletter contains timely news about the Lyme disease epidemic. Medical abstracts, treatment protocols, prevention information, and political happenings are all included. In addition, subscribers may ask questions to the patients, doctors and researchers on the net. To subscribe, send a memo to Internet address: listserv@Lehigh.EDU In the first line of the message, write: subscribe LymeNet-L Brochure by: Lloyd E. Miller, DVM....Troy, New York April 1993 ------------------------------ Cut here ------------------------------ -- -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc C. Gabriel - U.C. Box 545 - (215) 882-0138 Lehigh University From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Sun May 9 13:19:59 EDT 1993 Article: 16812 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Amaranth Message-ID: From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 22:23:04 GMT References: <1993May3.125818.3319@hemlock.cray.com> Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 13 BOUNTIFUL GARDENS (707)459-6410 10-5PST 5798 Ridgewood Road Willits, CA 95490 Besides amaranth (3 varieties), they have quinoa, millet, buckwheat, sorghum, oats, barley, cereal rye, wheat, oats, lentils, and senna. They are part of no-profit organization, Ecology Action, so they are not quite as some for-profits, but acceptable. I got may order in 2 weeks. The prices are very reasonable. A nice feature for intensive gardeners is the inclusion in the catalog of how many square feet a packet will plant. Their catalog is free, but they have a bulk list they charge 50 cents for (Have to remember to order it!) Bruce Moon Rio LInda, CA From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Sun May 9 13:20:16 EDT 1993 Article: 16812 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Amaranth Message-ID: From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 22:23:04 GMT References: <1993May3.125818.3319@hemlock.cray.com> Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 13 BOUNTIFUL GARDENS (707)459-6410 10-5PST 5798 Ridgewood Road Willits, CA 95490 Besides amaranth (3 varieties), they have quinoa, millet, buckwheat, sorghum, oats, barley, cereal rye, wheat, oats, lentils, and senna. They are part of no-profit organization, Ecology Action, so they are not quite as some for-profits, but acceptable. I got may order in 2 weeks. The prices are very reasonable. A nice feature for intensive gardeners is the inclusion in the catalog of how many square feet a packet will plant. Their catalog is free, but they have a bulk list they charge 50 cents for (Have to remember to order it!) Bruce Moon Rio LInda, CA From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sun May 9 23:39:22 EDT 1993 Article: 16602 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Fertilizer FAQ (long!) Message-ID: <1993May5.135248.12973@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 5 May 93 13:52:48 -0600 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 411 FERTILIZER FAQL Initial writing by Kay Klier, using materials from a wide variety of sources. Primarily written from the point of view of NPK. Needs work on using green manures and cover crops as nutrient sources, since I mainly use them to add organic matter. CONTENTS: I. Fertilizer overview II. Plant nutrients III. What is a complete formula for plants? IV. The numbers on the fertilizer sack V. Calculating amounts of fertilizer to apply VI. When to fertilize VII. Methods of application A. Commercial formulations 1. Dry 2. Soluble B. Natural forms VIII. Fertilizers vs. soil amendments IX. Approximate analyses of commonly available natural fertilizers and soil amendments A. Seed meals B. Manures C. Animal byproducts D. Stem and leaf products E. Miscellaneous organics F. Miscellaneous inorganics X. Experiences with various formulations A. Osmocote B. Peter's soluble general purpose C. Granular commercial fertilizers D. "Weed and feed" lawn fertilizers E. "Lawn fertilizers" F. Houseplant formulations I. FERTILIZER OVERVIEW Fertilizers are materials that contain appreciable amounts of plant nutrients. Probably the most familiar categories of fertilizer are "chemical" vs. "organic": these could better be termed synthetic vs. natural. The synthetic fertilizers consist almost entirely of nitrogen, potassium and phosphorus (the three nutrients most likely to be in short enough supply to limit growth), in forms that are readily utilized by plants. In contrast, the natural fertilizers are more likely to have significant amounts of micronutrients (trace minerals) and the macronutrients are likely to be in forms that are not as readily absorbed-- they are in forms that must first be metabolized by soil microorganisms before they are available to plants. There may also be significant bulk: useful for tilth improvement. Thus the synthetic fertilizers are "fast", while the natural fertilizers tend to be more "time release". Some people feel that synthetic fertilizers "poison" the soil, and will not use them in any instance; others feel that synthetics are perfectly acceptable if used properly. Synthetic fertilizers can be one of the major sources of groundwater pollution (as can runoff from manure piles): the nitrogen is in such a soluble form that it tends to leach from the point of application. Overfertilization of natural bodies of water tends to lead to algal blooms and subsequent death of fish from oxygen depletion. High nitrate levels in drinking water can cause reduction in oxygen carrying capacity in red blood cells. Reduced oxygen levels can cause retardation in young children and fetuses. If you apply a highly soluble fertilizer, please use it thoughtfully. II. PLANT NUTRIENTS Besides carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, the essential minerals for most plants are: Chemical Element Symbol Available form: MACRO Nitrogen N NH4+, NO3- Phosphorus P HPO4-, H2PO4- Potassium K K+ SECONDARY Sulfur S SO4-- Calcium Ca Ca++ Magnesium Mg Mg++ MICRONUTRIENTS Iron Fe Fe++, Fe+++ Manganese Mn Mn++ Boron B H2BO3 Copper Cu Cu++ Zinc Zn Zn++ Molybdenum Mo MoO4-- Chlorine Cl Cl- It is relatively rare for soils to be deficient in copper, zinc, molybdenum or chlorine. If needed, the micronutrients plus magnesium are often applied as a chelated mixture. Sequestrene is a common US brand. III. WHAT IS A COMPLETE FORMULA FOR PLANTS? Different plants require different proportions of nutrients, but you can get some idea of the general requirements by looking at one of the commonly used research formulations: Knop's solution with Nitsch's micronutrients. This will support hydroponic growth: (soil-less culture) IV. NUMBERS ON THE FERTILIZER SACK The three numbers on a commercial fertilizer bag are in the order NPK: nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium (=kalium). The actual numbers are percentages: 20-20-20 fertilizer is 20% (by weight) nitrogen, 20% phosphorus, 20% potassium. When choosing a fertilizer formulation, choose a balanced fertilizer for most purposes, one in which the three numbers are approximately equal. If you wish to favor growth of leaves over flowers (for instance for a leafy vegetable crop, or a lawn, choose a fertilizer with a higher first number; for flowers or fruits, choose a higher middle number, for better root growth, choose a higher last number. NPK: leaves: flowers: roots V. CALCULATING AMOUNTS TO APPLY Typically, a soil test will tell you that X pounds per thousand square feet will be required for a certain level of productivity (those who are fortunate enough to think metric can use appropriate units). As an example, consider someone who has just gotten a recommendation to apply 3 lbs of N per thousand square feet, in a divided (spring and fall) application. Our hapless homeowners wish to get their money's worth from the new mower he purchased for their 20,000 sq ft bluegrass lawn. To determine how many square feet a bag of fertilizer will cover at 1 lb per 1000 sq ft, multiply the weight of the bag by the percentage nitrogen on the label, then multiply by 1000. Assume this 30-1-1 fertilizer is sold in 40 lb sacks. One bag will cover 40 * .30 * 1000 = 12,000 sq ft at that rate.. But since we want 3 lbs N per 1000 sq ft, one sack will cover 4,000 sq ft, and our homeowners will buy 5 sacks of fertilizer (20,000sq ft/(4,000 sq ft/sack)) and use 3 sacks in the spring and 2 in the fall... VI. WHEN TO FERTILIZE Quickly absorbed fertilizers should be applied only when a plant is about to begin a growth spurt, or during heavy growth. You should not fertilize heavily just before a plant will be going into dormancy (this may keep the plant from "hardening off" properly, and can result in winter damage. If you choose to use "high management" on a plant (heavy fertilization), you should also count on increasing water to the plant. If you anticipate major insect damage (perhaps a hatch of grasshoppers), decrease fertilization: tender plant tissues are more subject to damage than tissues that grew more slowly. In general, a _slightly_ "hungry" plant is more resistant to pests and diseases than an overfed one. Overfeeding can also result in salts building up in the soil. The salt build-up decreases the water potential of the soil, and can actually reach the point that a plant cannot extract enough water from a moist but salinized soil. These soils must be "cured" by leaching with tremendous amounts of water. Although a "proper" fertilization regime would include soil and plant analyses, most of us guesstimate fertilizer requirements. A cautious approach to guesstimation is to observe the plants for nutrient deficiency symptoms (you'll need to compare to photos often found in basic agronomy, horticulture or botany texts). If any are suspected, apply a weak fertilizer and observe for increased growth. If this is observed, you can repeat the application. Stop as soon as any signs of overfertilization (weak, floppy growth, all leaves and no flowers, salt burned leaves) are observed. Slow release fertilizers can be applied at almost any time, and there is relatively little danger of "burning" the plants. Notable exceptions are urine or fresh manures, which can be very high N. Composted manures are less "lively". VII. METHODS OF APPLICATION A. COMMERCIAL FORMULATIONS 1. DRY Basic forms of commercial fertilizer include dry granular, slow release (e.g. Osmocote (tm)), and soluble. Granular fertilizers are usually broadcast or used as a side dressing (dug into a trench near the plants), slow release fertilizers are often used for high-value crops like greenhouse plants and as "starters" when planting trees or shrubs. Two additional forms of dry fertilizer are available: fertilizer "spikes" meant to be hammered into the soil near trees or shrubs, or inserted into soil of potted plants, and solid pellets meant for use in such devices as the Ross Root Feeder (tm). 2. SOLUBLE Soluble fertilizers (Peters is a popular US brand) were once nearly confined to greenhouse use, but are now becoming popular for foliar fertilization of lawns and bedding plants. These are usually applied diluted in large quantities of water, using a hose-end sprayer or proportioning device (e.g. Hoze-on proportioner (tm)). They may also be injected directly into irrigation systems. Because these soluble fertilizers are readily available to plants, most growers have found that using weaker solutions more often than label recommendations give superior results. A typical schedule might be 20-25% of the recommended strength applied at weekly intervals rather than the suggested monthly intervals. Growers of some specialty plants have reported problems with colored soluble fertilizers (a dye is added so the person who is watering can see if fertilizer or plain water is coming from the hose). Some manufacturers are now producing soluble products without the tracker dye. Crops often reported affected by the dye include ferns, lower plants and orchids. Highly soluble fertilizers like these can pollute groundwater unless carefully applied. B. NATURAL FERTILIZERS Because these generally have lower analyses than commercial fertilizers, generally much larger quantities are applied. This has the advantage of improving soil tilth by adding organic matter, and these generally require no additional micronutrient correction. You can also get a fair amount of exercise spreading and digging in a natural fertilizer. Another common way to use these fertilizers is as a "tea", an infusion of (for instance) manure in water. Water is added to a container of manure, the contents stirred and allowed to settle, then the water siphoned off for use, often on potted plants. Additional water can be added and the process repeated. <<>> VIII. FERTILITIES VS. SOIL AMENDMENTS Natural fertilizers are often used not just for their nutritive value, but to improve soil tilth. Commercial fertilizers are generally not useful for tilth improvement. However, other soil amendments, like gypsum or agricultural lime, affect the availability of soil nutrients by their effect on soil pH. IX. APPROXIMATE ANALYSES OF COMMONLY AVAILABLE NATURAL FERTILIZERS AND SOIL AMENDMENTS. N P K comments A. SEED MEALS Alfalfa meal 2.4 0.2 2.1 Coffee grounds 2 0.3 0.2 acidic; add lime; caffeine residues may inhibit germination Cottonseed meal 6 2 1 cotton is a high pesticide crop Soybean meal 7 0.5 2.3 B. MANURES Bat guano (fresh) 10 3 1 Bat guano (subfossil) 2 8 0 Chicken manure (dry) 4 4 2 Cow manure (dry) 2 2.3 2.4 compost or apply in fall Horse manure 1.7 0.7 1.8 Pig manure (dry) 2 1.8 1.8 neighbors downwind will complain Sheep manure (dry) 4 1.4 3.5 C. ANIMAL BYPRODUCTS Blood meal 10 0 0 Bone meal 3 12 0-0.5 1 yr P availability Bone meal (steamed) 1 11 0 Crab meal (shrimp m., seafood m.) 4 3 0.5 Eggshell 1.2 0.4 0.1 Feather meal 11 0 0 Fish emulsion 4 1 1 5% sulfur Fish meal 5-11 3-6 0-3 may attract cats and other carnivores Horn & hoof meal 12-14 2 0 1 year N availability Worm castings 0.5 0.5 0.3 D. STEM AND LEAF PRODUCTS Bluegrass hay 1.8 0.6 1.8 Corn stover (dry) 1.2 0.4 1.6 Corn stover (green) 0.3 0.1 0.3 Cowpeas (dry) 3.1 0.6 2.3 Cowpeas (green) 0.4 0.1 0.4 Fescue hay 2.1 0.7 2.4 Grass clippings (green)0.5 0.2 0.5 Hairy vetch 2.8 0.8 2.3 Lespedeza hay 2.4 0.8 2.3 Oak leaves 0.8 9.4 0.1 Orchard grass hay 2.3 0.7 2.8 Red Clover hay 2.8 0.6 2.3 Sweet clover hay 2.2 0.6 2.2 Timothy hay 1.8 0.7 2.8 Wheat bran 2.6 2.9 1.6 Wheat straw 0.7 0.2 1.2 White clover (green) 0.5 0.2 0.3 E. MISCELLANEOUS ORGANIC Apple pomace 0.2 0 0.2 Compost (commercial) 1 1 1 Compost (homemade, high nutrients) 4 4 4 Compost (homemade, low nutrient) 0.5 0.5 0.5 Kelp meal 1-1.5 0-0.5 1-2.5 Milorganite (Milwaukee sewage sludge) 6 4 0 Oyster shell 0 0 0 31-36% calcium + trace minerals Sawdust 0.2 0 0.2 uses lots of N as it rots Sewage sludge, Iowa, average of 40 municipalities: very wide ranges, depending on source 2.77 1.41 0 F. MISCELLANEOUS INORGANICS Ammonium nitrate 33 0 0 soil acidifier Ammonium sulfate 21 0 0 strong acidifier Aragonite 0 0 0 96% calcium carbonate Borax 0 0 0 10% boron Calcitic limestone 0 0 0 65-80% calcium carbonate Colloidal phosphate 0 2 2 Dolomitic limestone 0 0 0 51% Calcium carbonate, 40% magnesium carbonate Epsom salts 0 0 0 10% magnesium, 13% sulfur Granite meal 0 4 0 67% silica, 19 trace minerals Greensand 0 1.5 6.1 32 trace minerals + 10 year release K Gypsum 0 0 0 22% calcium, 17% sulfur Muriate of potash: see potassium chloride Potassium chloride 0 0 60 commonly used in commercial fertilizers Potassium nitrate 13 0 44 basifier (makes soil more alkaline) Rock phosphate 0 3 0 32% total P, 32% Ca, 11 trace minerals Soft phosphate 0 18 0 2-3 yr P availability Superphosphate 0 20 0 12% sulfur Sulfur elemental or flowers of sulfur 0 0 0 99% sulfur; soil acidifier. Treble superphosphate 0 45 0 Urea 45 0 0 highest available N in granular form X. EXPERIENCES WITH VARIOUS FORMULATIONS A. Osmocote One midwestern botanist with a tendency to forget to fertilize greenhouse plants has had good results with osmocote; others have reported poor results with other crops and better management. B. Peter's soluble general purpose Useful for most greenhouse crops, general bedding crops. Too high in nitrogen for good vegetable crops. Blue tracking dye is suspected in difficulties with orchids, ferns and lower plants. Uncolored forms available. Easy to handle. May require supplementation with micronutrients in greenhouse soils. C. Granular commercial fertilizers. Generally cheap and convenient; general purpose and easy to keep on hand. Buy by cost per pound of nutrients: 10 lbs of 15-15-15 at $1.30 is a better deal than 10 lbs of 10-10-10 at $1.00. Broken sacks of dry granulars can often be purchased cheaply at farm supply outlets. 5-10-5 is a typical "tomato" or "flowering houseplant" formulation. 10-10-10 or similar near-equal number formulation is an all-purpose balanced fertilizer. D. "Weed and feed" lawn fertilizers Combination herbicides and high nitrogen formulations. Consensus of the net seems to be that these are unneeded and polluting; a more balanced lawn fertilizer and perhaps spot applications of a selected herbicide (or a dandelion digger!) is a better choice for lawn, people and environment. E. "Lawn fertilizers" Formulations like 43-1-1 encourage leaf growth at the expense of root growth. A more balanced fertilizer is better if clippings are removed. If clippings are allowed to rot in place, or returned to the lawn as compost, potassium and phosphorus are reclaimed, so a better choice would be a fertilizer in the vicinity of 20-5-5. High N fertilizers can be applied just a few weeks before a special occasion requiring a deep green lawn without harm if the lawn is basically healthy. F. Houseplant formulations Specialty houseplant formulations are common and expensive; a soluble 10-10-10 or similar balanced fertilizer promotes good growth of most plants; plants grown for their flowers may benefit from 10-15-10 or similar formulations. 30-10-10 is a common formulation for epiphytic orchids growing in pots. In general, do not fertilize a newly potted plant or one that is about to enter dormancy. Resume fertilization when new growth starts. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sun May 9 23:39:51 EDT 1993 Article: 16603 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Poisonous plants FAQ Message-ID: <1993May5.135441.12974@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 5 May 93 13:54:41 -0600 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 306 Subj: POISONOUS PLANTS LIST Hi: Thought this might make a beginning of an FAQ. As you've probably surmised, I'm drowning in classes this year, but still trying to chug along with FAQ work. Kay ------------- Plants poisonous to humans: the list is divided into those known to have caused fatalities in humans and those with significant quantities of poisonous substances ***************************** Plants known to have caused human fatalities: List includes only North American natives and plants commonly grown in North America Poisonous parts* Scientific Name (fls=flowers; frt= (spp. = species fruit; lvs=leaves; Plant plural) rt=root) ---------------- --------------- ------------------- Angel's trumpet Datura all, esp. seed, lvs suaveolens Azalea Rhododendron lvs, fls spp. Baneberry Actaea spp. frt; rt Belladonna Atropa all, esp. frt, rt belladonna Black Cherry Prunus serotina bark, seed, lvs (frt OK) Black Locust Robinia pseudo- seed, lvs, inner acacia bark Black snakeroot Zigadenus spp. bulbs Buckeye Aesculus spp. seed, lv, stem, fls and honey made from nectar Caladium Caladium spp. all parts Carolina jessamine Gelsimium all parts sempervirens Castor bean Ricinus seed communis Chinaberry Melia azdirach frt, lvs Daphne Daphne mexereum all parts Death camas Zigadenus spp. bulbs Dieffenbachia Dieffenbachia all parts spp. Duranta Duranta repens frt English ivy Hedera helix frt, lvs False hellebore Veratrum spp. all parts Foxglove Digitalis all parts purpurea Golden chain tree Laburnum seed, fls anagyroides Horse chestnut Aesculus spp. seed, lv, stem, fls including honey made from nectar Jequirty bean Abrus seed precatorius Jimson weed Datura all parts, esp seed stramonium and Datura spp. Lantana Lantana camara unripe frt Lily of the valley Convallaria all parts majalis Lobelia Lobelia spp. all parts Mistletoe Phoradendron frt spp. Monkshood Aconitum spp. all parts Mountain laurel Kalmia lvs, stems, fls latifolia Moonseed Menispermum frt canadense Ne'em Melia azdirach frt, lvs Nightshade Solanum spp. unripe frt Oleander Nerium oleander all parts Poke Phytolacca rt, mature stems americana Precatory bean Abrus seed precatorius Rhododendron Rhododendron lvs, fls sp. Rhubarb Rheum leaf blades rhaponticum Rubber vine Cryptostegia all parts grandiflora Sandbox tree Hura crepitans milky sap and seed Tabacco (incl. tree Nicotiana spp all parts, esp lvs tobacco) Tansy Tanacetum lvs, fls vulgare Tung tree Aleurites all parts, esp seed fordii Water hemlock Cicuta spp. rt White snakeroot Eupatorium all parts rugosum Yellow oleander Thevetia all parts, esp frt peruviana Yew Taxus spp. all parts but "berry pulp" ____________________________________________________ PLANTS WITH SIGNIFICANT QUANTITIES OF POISONOUS SUBSTANCES Amaryllis Amaryllis spp. bulb Autumn crocus Colchicum all parts autumnale Bittersweet Celastrus seed scandens Bleeding heart Dicentra spp. all parts Bloodroot Sanguinaria all parts canadensis Blue cohosh Caulophyllum frt, lvs thalictroides Boxwood Buxus lvs sempervirens Buckthorn Rhamnus spp. frt Bushman's poison Acokanthera spp all parts Buttercup Ranunculus spp. all parts; toxicity varies from species to species; mostly causes blistering Buttonbush Cephalanthus lvs occidentalis Chincherinchee Ornithagalum all parts thyrsoides Colchicum Colchicum all parts autumnale Crown of thorns Euphorbia milky latex splendens Culver's root Veronicastrum root virginianum Daffodil Narcissus spp. bulb Delphinium Delphinium spp. young plants, seed Desert marigold Baileya radiata all parts Dutchman's breeches Dicentra all parts cucullaria Fly poison Amianthemum lvs, rt muscaetoxicum Four o'clock Mirabilis seed, rt jalapa Gloriosa lily Gloriosa spp. all parts Goldenseal Hydrastis rhizomes, lvs canadensis Holly Ilex spp. frt Hyacinth Hyacinthus spp. bulb Hydrangea Hydrrangea spp. buds, lvs Jack in the Pulpit Arisaema rt, lvs triphyllum Jessamine Cestrum spp. lvs, young stems Jonquil Narcissus spp. bulb Karaka nut Corynocarpus seed laevigata Kentucky coffee tree Gymnocladus frt dioica Larkspur Delphinium spp. young plants, seed Lignum vitae Guaiacum frt officinale Locoweed Astragalus and various parts; more Oxytropis spp. of a livestock poisoning problem Lupine Lupinus spp. various parts; primarilly frt, seed Mayapple Podophyllum all parts but ripe peltatum frt Mescal bean Sophora seed secundiflora Narcissus Narcissus spp. bulb Ngaio Myoporum laetum lvs Opium poppy Papaver unripe frt somniferum Philodendron Philodendron lvs, stems spp. Pittosporum Pittosporum frt, lvs, stems spp. Poinsettia Euphorbia milky latex pulcherrima Poison ivy Toxicodendron sap, lvs radicans Poison oak Toxicodendron sap, lvs diversilobum Poison sumac Toxicodendron sap, lvs vernix Prickly poppy Argemone spp. seed, lvs Privet Ligustrum seed, lvs vulgare Sneezeweed Helenium spp. all parts Snow on the mountain Euphorbia milky latex marginata Squirrel corn Dicentra all parts canadensis Star of Bethlehem Ornithagalum all parts umbellatum Sweet pea Lathyrus spp. seed ----------------------------------------- Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI in%"klier@iscsvax.uni" From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sun May 9 23:41:52 EDT 1993 Article: 16599 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: How to get rec.gardens FAQs Message-ID: <1993May5.134917.12970@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 5 May 93 13:49:17 -0600 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 26 I'm posting a small sample of some of the rec.gardens FAQs available from the Sunsite archives at University of North Carolina. Larry London has been an immense help in maintaining these archives. And all help in writing them is welcome, too! How _I_ get to the rec.gardens FAQ's (I'm most assuredly a computer USER, not a guru). Telnet to sunsite.unc.edu Login as "gopher" tell the computer I'm a vt100 terminal get the first menu, choose item 3 (sunsite archives) get the second menu, choose item 6 (sustainable ag, if I remember right) get the third menu, choose item 10. After than you can browse through the archives and FAQ's and mail them back to yourself [or someone you love ;-)] Essentially, then, the rec.gardens stuff is a small part of the sustainable ag information (and there's a lot of good info for gardeners in the sustainable ag stuff, too!) Have fun! Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!udel!news.intercon.com!psinntp!laidbak!binford!mcdchg!mcdphx!hlm Sun May 9 23:42:48 EDT 1993 Article: 16680 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!udel!news.intercon.com!psinntp!laidbak!binford!mcdchg!mcdphx!hlm From: hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com (Heather Magill) Subject: Re: Mail Order Book Source Message-ID: <1993May6.163607.28602@phx.mcd.mot.com> Sender: news@phx.mcd.mot.com Nntp-Posting-Host: cretan.phx.mcd.mot.com Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az. References: Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 16:36:07 GMT Lines: 16 In article pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes: >agAccess, po box 2008, Davis, CA, 95617, (916) 756-7717 ^^^^^^^^ Should be 756-7177 [snip] >Color Handbook of Garden Insects,Carr,1979,241pgs,ROD013,.95 This book is out of print according to Rodale Press. AgAcess has an order in for 15, I don't know how they are going to get them. Heather. -- hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!quack!pharvey Sun May 9 23:43:51 EDT 1993 Article: 16635 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Subject: Mail Order Book Source Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. Date: 6 May 1993 00:54:28 UTC Lines: 57 agAccess, po box 2008, Davis, CA, 95617, (916) 756-7717 World's most complete stock of agricultural & horticultural books Over 12,000 titles in stock Neem: A Tree for Solving Global Problems, NRC 1992, 141pgs, BOS043, Covercrops for Cal. Ag., Miller Graves & Williams, 1989, 24 pgs,ANR173, .50 Cover Crops for Clean Water, Hargrove, 1991, 198 pgs, SCS008, Uncommon Fruits Worthy of Attention, Reich, 1991, 240 pgs/hrdcvr, ADD012,.95 All About Citrus & Subtropical Fruits, Bond, 1985, 96 pgs, ORT028, .95 General Viticulture, Winkler, 1974, 710 pgs/hrdcvr, UCA013, Ball Redbook: Greenhouse Growing, Ball, 15th ed,1991,802pgs/hrdcvr,GTS002, Ball Culture Guide: Ency. of Seed Germination, Nau, 1989, 109pgs,GTS003, Hortus Third, 1976, 1,290pgs/hrdcvr, MAC002, Plant Propagation: Principles & Practices,Hartman/Kester,1990,647pgs,PRN081, Gardener's Dict. of Horticultural Terms,Bagust,1992,377pgs/hrdcvr,STE078,.95 Designing & Maint. Your Edible Landscape Naturally,Kourik,1986,370pgs,MTP001, Western Garden Book, Sunset, 1988, 512 pgs, LAN001, Complete Book of Bananas, Lessard, 1992, 120pgs/hrdcvr, LSD001, African Gardens & Orchards, Dupriez & DeLeener, 1989,333pgs,MML014, Drip Irrigation, Kourik, 1992, 118pgs, MTP004, Gray Water Use in the Landscape,Kourik,1988,28pgs,MTP002, Color Handbook of Garden Insects,Carr,1979,241pgs,ROD013,.95 Common Sense Pest Control,Daar et al.,1991,715pgs/hrdcvr,NRT024,.95 Fertile Soil, Parnes,1990,210pgs,PAN032,.95 Fermented Foods of the World, Platt,1987,291pgs/hrdcvr,BUT041,.95 Seed to Civilization: The Story of Food, Heiser, 1990,228pgs,HRV039,.95 Seeds of Woody Plants of the US,USDA,1974,882pgs/hrdcvr,USA034, Seed to Seed, Ashworth, 1991, 222 pgs, SEE008, Let it Rot!, Campbell, 2nd ed, 1990, 150pgs, GAR101, .95 American Ginseng: Green Gold, Persons, 1986, 172pgs, BMB001, Ginseng: Concise Handbook, Duke, 1989, 273pgs/hrdcvr,REF008,.95 Cornucopia: Source Book of Edible Plants,Facciola,1990,675pgs,KMP001, Olive Oil, Kiritsakis, 1991, 185pgs/hrdcvr, AOC001, Raising Snails for Food, Baratou, 1988,68 pgs, ILL001, .95 Ill. Dict. of Chinese Med. Herbs,Chin/Keng,1992,184pgs/hrdcvr,CRP001,.95 Mushrooms Demystified,Arora,2nd ed,1986,759pgs,TEN005,.95 Sus. Ag. for Ca: Info Guide,UC Sus. Ag Research,1991,191pgs,ANR219, 93 CCOF Cert. Handbook,66pgs,CCO007, Sus. Ag. Dir. of Expertise 93,USDA,300pgs,SUP002,.95 Farmers of Forty Centuries,King,1911,441pgs,ROD021,.95 Prin. & Prac. of Dryland Farming,Brengle,1982,178pgs/hrdcvr,HPL002,.50 Gardener's Guide to Fava Beans,Evans,1992,48pgs,APV001,.50 Organic Farming,Lampkin,1989,350pgs/hrdcvr,DIA028,.25 Natural Way of Farming,Fukuoka,1985,280pgs,JAP001,.95 Pests of Garden & Farm,Flint,1990,288pgs,ANR183, Permaculture: Designer's Manual,Mollison,1988,576pgs/hrdcvr,TAG003,.95 Intro to Permaculture,Mollison,1991,198pgs,TAG004,.95 How to Grow More Veg ... in less space...,Jeavons,2nd,1991,158pgs,TEN006,.95 Breed Your Own Veg,Deepe,1993,282pgs,LBC041,.95 Common Weeds of US,USDA,1971,454pgs,DOV026,.95 Weeds of the West,Whitson,1991,630pgs,ANR216, Oaks of Ca.,Pavlik,1992,184pgs,CCH001,.95 Compatible Plants Under & Around Oaks,CA Oak Found,1991,69pgs,COF002, Golden Gate Gardening,Peirce,1993,397pgs,PAN036,.95 Scythe Book,Tresemer,1982,120pgs,BHF002,.95 Grafter's Handbook,Garner,5th,1988,324pgs,STE069,.95 Manag. Covercrops,Sus. Ag Network,1992,114pgs,SUP001,.95 From samba!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU!jcs Sun May 9 23:46:58 EDT 1993 Article: 16694 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU!jcs From: jcs@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Janet C. Sakell) Subject: Gardening from Beyond Message-ID: Originator: jcs@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 19:37:29 GMT Lines: 19 Only other gardeners can appreciate - The other day at lunch I took a stroll through the University's cemetery. It's a wonderful old cemetery with elaborately carved tombstones (one in particular has stone rose blossoms climbing up it), interesting epitaphs about the folks "residing" there, big old trees and is just a nice, quiet place to walk. I had to stop and chuckle at the graves of a long-departed English professor and his wife (all I could think was "Old gardeners never die, they just...(-:) - before me was the prettiest little perennial garden! The most beautiful fuchsia azalea in full bloom, lily of the valley everywhere, what must have been gorgeous daffodils, scilla, and the biggest pink bleeding heart I have ever seen - the thing was a good 3-4' across! I should only have that kind of gardening skill in this life (-: ... Janet Sakell University of Virginia / Charlottesville, VA From samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!nt0a+ Sun May 9 23:48:03 EDT 1993 Article: 16652 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!nt0a+ From: Neil Bryant Thornton Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Poison ivy FAQ Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 10:03:20 -0400 Organization: Temporary Employment Service, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <1993May5.135019.12971@iscsvax.uni.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: po3.andrew.cmu.edu In-Reply-To: <1993May5.135019.12971@iscsvax.uni.edu> Hi all, Just a quick note regarding POISON IVY. If you are unfortunate enough to get in touch with this plant and develop a rash, one sure fire cure is JEWELWEED or TOUCH-ME-NOT. Just crush up some leaves and a bit of the stem and rub the resulting juice on the rashy area. The next day (maximum of two) the rash should be gone. Since JEWELWEED grows in two forms, make sure you use the cross pollinating "woods variety" that develops both male and female flowers. They're a bit harder to find than the self pollinating form which seems to grow in every crack of every sidewalk around here. I don't know if the self pollinating form is effective or not, I've never tried it. They tend to be much smaller than the "woodsy" form and have much less juice to use as a result. Since I'm really just a lurker I hope this wasn't common knowledge and that I did contribute some useful information. C-ya, Steven From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!silver.cs.umanitoba.ca!ostrand Sun May 9 23:49:00 EDT 1993 Article: 16661 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!silver.cs.umanitoba.ca!ostrand From: ostrand@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Andrew Ostrander) Subject: Re: Poison ivy FAQ Message-ID: Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.cs.umanitoba.ca Organization: Computer Science, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada References: <1993May5.135019.12971@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 15:30:08 GMT Lines: 6 Bees can produce honey from poison ivy flowers. I recall reading some years ago about a bee keeper whose bees were in a parkway in Toronto. He got some delicious honey one time, and wondered from which plants the bees had made it. Pollen identification revealed it was from poison ivy. It was delicious and safe to eat, both in his experience and according to the reports he got. From samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!npirs!jheath Sun May 9 23:49:42 EDT 1993 Article: 16666 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!npirs!jheath From: jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) Subject: Re: Poison Ivy? Message-ID: <1993May6.133735.15689@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University References: Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 13:37:35 GMT Lines: 16 Speaking of poison ivy, my mom always claimed that planting catnip in the area would "kill off" the poison ivy. She read about it in a farm magazine I think. It did seem to work at least part of the time. We now have lots of catnip growing in our backyard and are _very_ popular with the neighborhood cats (well, our yard is) ;-{). I am curious whether anyone else has heard of this and if they might know what the mechanism is, presuming that it really works. One thing that did seem to help with poison ivy rash was rubbing fresh catnip on the affected area. I don't know if it is a placebo effect, but it does seem to work. -- "Land of song, said the warrior bard, Jim Heath Though all the world betrays thee. One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy) One faithful harp will praise thee." (Thomas Moore) From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!concertina!fiddler Sun May 9 23:51:15 EDT 1993 Article: 16673 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!concertina!fiddler From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Poison Ivy/Sumac/Oak identification Date: 6 May 1993 17:47:57 GMT Organization: Sun Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <1993May5.134338.12969@iscsvax.uni.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: concertina In article <1993May5.134338.12969@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes: >From a thread last year on poison ivy, poison sumac, poison oak: Neither poison ivy nor poison sumac grow where I live...but I know that I'm sensitive to them... >POISON OAK: (Toxicodendron diversiloba = Rhus diversiloba). Reputedly the >worst of the bunch. I would certainly hope so...it would be awful to find something worse. >Erect shrub, usually about 3-6ft tall (to 12 ft!), bushy, If it were only that simple! In additon to that form, you can find poison oak growing as a vine (very like wild grape, but with smooth bark) up to six inches in diameter disappearing up into the tree tops near streams, or in thckets that look a *lot* like blackberry without spines, or sometimes as collections of leafless single branches (later the leaves appear, shiny and red, changing to oily green, and so on). >with ALTERNATE LEAVES OF THREE LEAFLETS, the LEAFLETS generally lobed slightly >or as much as an oak leaf; CENTRAL LEAFLET STALKED. Leaves generally >bright, shiny green above, paler below. Fruits are small whitish berries. >Common on the west coast, esp. low places, thickets and wooded slopes. >Occasionally a 5-leafleted form is found. Horrible stuff. YOu can even get a dose if a bunch of the leaves get dumped into a stream or pond...the oil ends up floating on the surface of the water. I feel sorry for people who are *really* sensitive to the weed. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to grow much above 5000' elevation. -- "...Then anyone who leaves behind him a written manual, and likewise anyone who receives it, in the belief that such writing will be clear and certain, must be exceedingly simple-minded..." Plato, _Phaedrus_ ------------------------------------------------------- From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson Sun May 9 23:57:32 EDT 1993 Article: 16720 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!ivgate!axolotl!mtask!Bob.Batson From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Amaranth Message-ID: <70.2be8c4c3@axolotl> Date: 05 May 93 13:55:14 CST Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City Sender: news@axolotl.omahug.org (UUscan 1.10) Followup-To: rec.gardens Lines: 74 dadams@cray.com (David Adams) writes: > I just got arround to reading Ogranic Gardening's April edition article > on Amaranth. .............................................. [TEXT DELETED] > The article mentions that there are two main species of grain amaranth, > _Amaranthus cruentus_ and _Amaranthus hypochondriacus_. I make the > hypothesis, after reading the article that _A. cruentus is the new > world variety. (I make this hypothesis after noting that several of > the _A. cruentus_ varieties are available from Native Seed. So I > could be off base--It is just a wild guess.) Can anybody provide > more information? I suggest you try and read the books _AMARANTH : Modern Prospects for an Ancient Crop_ by Report of an ad hoc panel of the Advisory Committee on Technology Innovation, Board on Science and Technology for International Development,Office of International Affairs, National Research Council 1985, 76 pages). ------ AND ------ _Amaranth, from the Past for the Future_ by John N. Cole (c1979, 311 pages). Both of these books are from Rodale Press. > Also, does anybody know of any sources for amaranth seed beyond those > given in the article. (I like having a phone number--none of these > have a phone number.) PLANTS OF THE SOUTHWEST [CAT - $2US] 930 Baca Street Santa Fe, NM 87501 (505) 983-1548 > Also, does anybody have any information on millet, Quionia, or other > small grains? The book _Small-Scale Grain Raising by Gene Logsdon (Rodale Press, c1977, 305 pages) MIGHT have some chapters you'd find interesting. Seeds of Change sells both millet and Quinoa. > Here are the sources they listed. > > Abundant Life Seed Foundation TEL: (206) 385-7192 > Johnny's Selected Seeds TEL: (207) 437-4301 FAX: (207) 437-2165 > Native Seed/SEARCH TEL: (602) 327-9123 > Park Seed Co. TEL: (803) 223-7333 > Salt Spring Seeds TEL: (604) 537-5269 [NO TELEPHONE ORDERS] > Seeds of Change TEL: (505) 438-8080 FAX: (505) 438-7052 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson bob.batson@p3.f322.n280.z1.fidonet.org | Primary address bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org | Backup address ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus will do exactly as it pleases. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!olivea!stratus!soave!jane Mon May 10 00:01:30 EDT 1993 Article: 16789 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!olivea!stratus!soave!jane From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Poison Ivy? Keywords: poison ivy Message-ID: <9371.6573@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 7 May 93 21:56:49 GMT References: Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA Lines: 45 [somewhat gruesome graphic account of poison ivy encounter deleted] There are other treatments that work, but your doctor won't tell you, because they are botanical homeopathic type things, which doesn't make money for the pharmaceuticals companies, and hence they aren't in the medical literature and are considered suspect because they aren't grown in test tubes. However: good remedies for poison ivy/oak (we get the "oak" variety here in California) from Prof. Jilara (I don't want to call myself "Dr. Jilara" lest someone claim I was impersonating a doctor!), with help from the Cal Poly Botany Dept. can be posted to the net! These both give quicker/better relief than the old steroids-and-calamine treatment, which has been shown not to work well at all. Botany Dept. poison oak relief: pick two large handfuls of fresh mugwort (Artemesia vulgaris) and let infuse in 1 cup alcohol for overnight. Apply to affected area with a clean sponge/washcloth/q-tips/whatever every four hours. Dries it up quickly. Auntie Jilara's Aloe Cure: (This one was tested on my husband, who had a case of poison oak so bad it looked like a radiation burn. I've used it since, and it WORKS BEST OF ALL REMEDIES!) Take a large leaf from the aloe vera plant you keep on your windowsill for burns. (If you don't have one, get one!) (NOTE: "aloe vera gel" sold commercially does NOT work!) Slice lengthwise to expose the juicy interior of the leaf. (This will give you an upper and lower leaf, with a juicy side to each.) Trim off leaf edges. Apply directly to affected area, juicy side against the sores. Bandage in place. Apply a new leaf every day until healed. This works phenomenally well, but you have to put up with bulky slabs of aloe vera leaf against the area. Which would you rather have: oozing sores or a succulent slab of leaf? Thought so. ;-) I can't laude this one enough! It works faster than any other remedy! And relieves the dreadful *itching*, too! -- Jilara [jane@swdc.stratus.com] "Every now and then, a big rock falls out of the sky, and everyone has a *very bad* day." --from the PBS "Dinosaurs" special. From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!rutgers!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius Mon May 10 00:06:15 EDT 1993 Article: 16810 of rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!rutgers!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius From: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu (Bob Klebba) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Help! Garter Snakes!-- I'll TAKEM ALL!! Message-ID: <1993May7.185516.6645@nicmad.uucp> Date: 7 May 93 18:55:16 GMT References: <49005@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: mac_1 X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 In article <49005@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> , cs180sbg@sdcc5.ucsd.edu writes: >Oh Boy. Could I convince you to send them here? If you can catch them -- >We'll pay for you to recruit some of your neighborhood kids to round-them >up for you. Give them a dollar a snake or something, save them all up, >put them in a box and send them to us here in California. We can >pay in advance for your snakes. Pet stores out here want $20 for a pair >of garter snakes. Make an offer. Please don't consider importing exotic animals into your area. They may have a disease that might eliminate the natives. They may be more aggressive than the natives and push them out of your area. Or they might eliminate an animal that was not previously hunted by the native predators. Question: would you consider importing carp into your area? Bob Klebba Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4 Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu "Feed the soil, not the plant" From samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!uunet!quack!pharvey Mon May 10 22:25:24 EDT 1993 Article: 16901 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!uunet!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: Mail Order Book Source Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: Date: 10 May 1993 20:58:41 UTC Lines: 9 In article pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes: >agAccess, po box 2008, Davis, CA, 95617, (916) 756-7717 ^^^^ wrong number! >World's most complete stock of agricultural & horticultural books >Over 12,000 titles in stock Oops! The number is (916) 756-7177. If you're in Davis, they have a retail store at 603 Fourth Street. Catalog of new and best selling titles available at no charge on request.