From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!henson!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!stein.u.washington.edu!lamantia Wed Jul 28 13:04:28 EDT 1993 Article: 20454 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!henson!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!stein.u.washington.edu!lamantia From: lamantia@stein.u.washington.edu (Stephen Lamantia) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Where are you? Summary: Tell us where you're located Keywords: location locale climate zone city state country planet galaxy Message-ID: <2369kc$178@news.u.washington.edu> Date: 28 Jul 93 16:31:08 GMT Article-I.D.: news.2369kc$178 Organization: University of Washington Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu I've noticed that some folks post questions to rec.gardens without mentioning where their garden is located geographically. Given the nature of gardening, wouldn't it be a good idea to mention your location? (Sometimes we can guess from the Internet address, but why should anyone have to guess?) This is just a humble request. I've seen helpful people trying to answer a posted question, but having to resort to multiple qualifiers like, "If you live in the northeast, you could plant wooly frogeyes, but if you're in the midwest, jumping jehosephats grow much better, but if you're in the rainy northwest, there's a new hybrid of screaming meemies that would serve you best." I'd even bet folks would get more replies if those doing the replying weren't faced with having to cover all possibilities. Just a thought. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!das-news.harvard.edu!das!hartman Wed Jul 28 13:04:46 EDT 1993 Article: 20456 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!das-news.harvard.edu!das!hartman From: hartman@das.harvard.edu (Anthony Hartman) Subject: Re: Chicago area gardens worth a visit ? Message-ID: <1993Jul28.170021.8419@das.harvard.edu> Sender: usenet@das.harvard.edu (Network News) Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University References: Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 17:00:21 GMT Lines: 15 I visited the Chicago Botanical Gardens in Glencoe IL at the end of May. There is a large Japanese garden, a walled English Garden, a rose garden, exhibits for the home gardener, and a small tropical green house with some nice tillandsia and other bromeliads. The plantings and landscaping are nicely done, but the sculpture scattered around is pretty bad. There is an enormous figure of Linnaeus, which must have been designed as an act of revenge by someone who hates binomial nomenclature. The gardens themselves are well worth a visit. -- Tony Hartman hartman@harvard.harvard.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!koeba Thu Jul 29 22:56:03 EDT 1993 Article: 159 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!koeba From: koeba@ils.unc.edu (Andrew Koebrick) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: bugs Date: 29 Jul 1993 22:59:02 GMT Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Lines: 7 Message-ID: <239knm$kq0@samba.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ruby.ils.unc.edu What are these small orange, black, and white bugs living on my cabbage? Should I kill them or are they eating the catapillerish green critters that I am already squishing? Thanks for any info, Andrew Koebrick From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Fri Jul 30 21:59:13 EDT 1993 Article: 20470 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Fruit tree grafting - tips from limited experience Message-ID: <236i4m$l0g@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 28 Jul 1993 11:56:22 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Distribution: world Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Lines: 103 I received a few requests for grafting tips, so, based on LIMTED experience (2 years), here goes... * Sterility of the tools is important to MAKE SURE that there is no chance of any possible contamination of the graft. I use a spray bottle (e.g. like for window cleaner) with a 10-15% chlorine bleach solution (i.e. between 1:5 and 1:9 bleach-to-water ratio). Spray the tools between EVERY GRAFT. * Use a SHARP knife for making the cuts. If you don't use a grafting knife then use a knife with a thin stiff blade and a good, solid handle that you can really hold onto. A kitchen paring knife might be OK if the blade is thin and stiff, a hobby knife usually has too small (thin) a handle, a retractable utility knife (the kind with the 1x2" trapezoidal blades) works well, but make a few cuts in scrap wood first to get the oil off of the blade. I use the utility knife. For a whip (splice) graft: * Choose the location on the stock to graft, correctly. It MUST be pointing as close to vertical as possible. * Try to match the diameter of the scion to the stock as much as you can. The best size for the scion is about the same as a pencil (.25"x7") before you make your cut. (You really only want about 3 buds on the scion when you're done, but start with extra length to work with making the cut. I NEVER get a good cut the first try.) * Cut the stock first. Then cut the scion, so that the buds point in the direction you want (i.e. away from the center of the tree, and not pointed to cross other branches.) Try to make both cuts the same length. * Be sure to cut the bottom of the scion (with some plants it's hard to tell which end is UP). * You MUST match the cambium layer in the stock and the scion. (The cambium is the layer just below the bark.) If you can't match both sides of a cut because of different diameters, then match as much as you can of one side. DON'T just center the scion on the stock. * Using vinyl grafting tape (not teflon plumbers tape, it looks right but it isn't strong enough), wrap the graft snugly to hold the scion to the stock. Be sure to cover the entire cut area, if the cut is exposed, it'll either dry out or get infected, either way you lose. * Cut the exposed scion down to 3 buds. More doesn't help. It divides the energy going into the scion. * HINT NOT IN ANY GRAFTING BOOKS! * Take a 2x4" piece of PARAFILM laboratory film, stretch it lengthwise (into a 2x10" approx piece), and wrap the whole graft and scion, all the way over the end of the scion (i.e. a spiral wrap). This helps keep the scion from drying out, and you can leave it on since the buds can grow right through the PARAFILM, and it eventually just breaks down. You should be able to get PARAFILM from chemist or biology friends or lab stockrooms or lab supply companies. Try friends first, you have to buy it in 125 or 250 FOOT rolls. (That's 750 to 1500 grafts!) * Leave the tape on the graft as long as you can. Until it looks like it is girdling (strangling) the branch. * When the new growth is about 12-14 inches, pinch off the tips of the growth to force it to branch out. I'm told this will result in a healthier, more productive limb later on. * If it is growing really well, tie the limb to a stake to support it so the new growth doesn't get too heavy for the graft joint to hold up, especially if it's windy where you are. (I lost 2 grafts this way.) THE BEST WAY TO LEARN TO GRAFT IS TO BE SHOWN BY SOMEONE. It's not as hard as it sounds, watching someone do it really helps. A couple of other grafting points. Grafting does not cause the fruit produced to be some sort of hybrid between the stock tree and the scion type. The fruit will be exactly the scion type. You can graft most stone fruits onto each other: peach, nectarine, apricot, plum, almond. Although some will take better than others. (E.g., European plums and Oriental plums don't seem to graft together well.) You can also graft apple varieties onto each other, pear varieties onto each other (including asian pears (yummm!)), and some apples and pears onto each other. You can bud graft any citrus onto any other citrus. (There are probably exceptions, but I haven't heard of 'em.) That's enough for now. (I've really got to do some REAL work... :-) -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-11, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw.granite.mn.org!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Sun Aug 1 22:00:20 EDT 1993 Article: 20540 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Composting oleanders 1/2 From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw.granite.mn.org!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Distribution: world Message-ID: <36.139.2130.0N4015FD@granite.mn.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 11:09:00 +0600 Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis Lines: 97 Organization: The McNelly Group H>Previously there was a thread on whether it was appropriate >to compost oleanders or not. According to the gardening section of >Sunday's (7/25/93) Arizona Republic, the following are not good >things to compost: H> + Thorned plant materials Agreed, the thorns usually come back to bite another day. > + Diseased plant materials This is not a concern if the pile is being composted through a hot, batch process. Another way to prevent cross contamination is to use the compost in a different part of the landscape. Compost from the garden should go on the lawn etc. > + Large pieces of woody materials Woody material at 10% of the home composting pile is recommended to provide free air space. While these bulking materials will not decompose in the typical life of the pile and must be screened out later, that is the point. They maintain their structure and help keep the pile airy and breathing. > + greasy materials + bones + fish, meat scraps and fatty foods These proscriptions are true for the public official that wishes to avoid a potential lawsuit from rat populations developing in an urban setting. Since 95% of householders practice passive, rather than hot batch composting, addition of these materials, especially on top of the pile is an invitation to vermin. If buried in a passive pile that is enclosed and quasi rodent-resistant, there is no problem with them. Raw meat however, can contain trichinosis, an intestinal parasite, so hence we have the blanket "don't use" meat products injunction. > charcoal The argument against charcoal may appear to be a hydrocarbon issue on one hand and a grease dripping concern on the other. Hydrocarbons from barbecue charcoal are volatilized by the time the ash goes to the composting pile, and the composting process in itself, even a passive pile, is an adequate treatment for these concentrations of hydrocarbons. People should be using newsprint-charcoal starters anyway. These are available from better hardware stores, catalogues, or direct from Kingsford. The fumes from lighters and self starting charcoal are a serious air pollution problem. The amount of grease in charcoal is low, but may fit into the previous classification. I am surprised the author had no warnings about wood ash. The rampant abuse of treated lumber where sawdust and trimmings are getting into all manner of fires is a problem that may be as large as asbestos or lead in paint. At 3000 parts per million arsenic and 1000 ppm lead, treated lumber is highly toxic when in an ash or sawdust form. Ash with paint or plastic residue can also be toxic. Use wood ash only when you are absolutely certain of its origin. > + Oleander, paloverde, eucalyptus or salt cedar leaves > (they may contain growth inhibiting chemicals) In VERY small quantities under 5% in the compost pile, the dilution factor takes care of these natural toxins. Previous directives against oak leaves, pine needles, and rhubarb have turned out to be unfounded. People should not _eat_ rhubarb leaves due to high oxalic acid concentration, but that does not make it toxic to plants. My guess is that the same is true of oleander, but since I am not certain, I will hold off making a definitive statement at this time. Salt damage and some natural toxins can be mitigated by multiple flushing of the compost before planting in it. This is a wise precaution when using any organic soil product. Eucalyptus is a soil toxin and I agree to keep it out of the compost pile. > Dog or cat feces The concern here is mainly from toxoplasmosis from cat feces which can infect young children and pregnant women. Intestinal parasites from dog doo might survive passive composting, but it is unlikely. Neither are a problem in active, hot piles. If composting cat litter, use the alfalfa based product as it is best for the soil vs clay, which just adds weight and inert bulk. Some litters are also cellulose or paper based. On the general issue of manures, animals fed meat byproducts such as cats and dogs cause their feces to be classified as a meat product. Ruminants such as cows or vegetarians such as rabbits, birds, and horses pose no such problems. > + non-organic items like foil, plastic or cooler pads Obvious. But these items can be screened out of finished compost. H>They also list the normal compostable item (grass, coffe grounds et al.) >but they also say "shredded newspapers without colored ink" *can* be >composted. What is in newspaper ink? Don't know if I would want to >put that in my vegetable garden. Much ink is soy based, and even the hydrocarbon based inks volatilize in (Continued to next message) --- * July 26th - Recycle! Today's Garbage is tomorrow's America. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw.granite.mn.org!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Sun Aug 1 22:00:47 EDT 1993 Article: 20541 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Composting oleanders 2/2 From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw.granite.mn.org!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Distribution: world Message-ID: <36.140.2130.0N4015FE@granite.mn.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 11:09:00 +0600 Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis Lines: 24 (Continued from previous message) the composting pile very quickly. Years ago when lead presses were used, as they still are in much of Europe, the lead concentration made newsprint toxic. Lead is banned here in the US and newsprint is now just funny looking sawdust. Glossy magazines are up to 20% clay, which is a natural soil product. The metals of concern are in the colored inks, particularly cadmium used to make yellow. But of all the multiple tests I have seen of newsprint, even concentrated colored glossies, show the material to be virtually background levels of metals. As a professional composting specialist, and an avid environmentalist, I am convinced that non-laminated paper is safe for home composting. Thanks Heather for posting the list. I hope my explanations help. Mr Compost~~~ Jim~~~ Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org --- * July 26th - Recycle! Today's Garbage is tomorrow's America. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly Sun Aug 1 22:04:00 EDT 1993 Article: 20582 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Rare Fruit growing article Date: 31 Jul 1993 02:36:17 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 65 Message-ID: <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu Summary: Sourcelist of nurseries and clubs I just noticed my latest issue of Veggie Life magazine ("Growing cooking and eating green") has an article entitled "Subtropical Fruits for Your Greenhouse." They cover (briefly!) cherimoya, allspice, star fruit, philodendron, acerola, passion fruit, jelly palm and jaboticaba. The best part is they give the following info at the end of the article : --------- Clubs: --------- California Rare Fruit Growers Fullerton Arboretum, CSFU Fullerton, CA 92634 This club has a world-wide membership base and is very knowledgable about rare plants. Send a SASE for inquiries. (Its $16 annual, US, which includes 6 issues of 'The Fruit Gardener' which is a color magazine, also a seed bank and seed exchange.) For those of you in southern california, CRFG will have their 25th anniversary celebration in Thousand Oaks, CA, which includes tours, plant and book sales, and food. Rare Fruit Council International Inc. PO Box 561914 Miami, FL 33256 Paw Paw Trackers Ray Jones 783 Cornell Dr Santa Clara, CA 95051 Dues are $5 the first year and $2 thereafter. Make checks payable to Ray Jones. ----------- Nurseries: ----------- Exotica Rare Fruit Nursery PO Box 160 Vista, CA 92083 (619) 724-9093 Plant list available. Atkins Nursery Inc 3129 Reche Rd Fallbrook, CA 92028 (619) 728-1610 Orange County Source Roger and Shirley Meyer 16531 Mt Shelly Circle FOuntain Valley, CA 92708 Pacific Tree Farms 4301 Lynwood Dr Chula Vista, CA 92010 (619) 422-2400 Its nice to see growing exotic fruits getting more out in the mainstream! (Is Veggie Life mainstream??!) Kelly kelly@cco.caltech.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Sat Aug 7 22:52:35 EDT 1993 Article: 20657 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Rare Fruit growing article Message-ID: <23jnn4$e1j@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 2 Aug 1993 11:51:16 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com References: <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Lines: 56 In <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) writes: [...] >--------- >Clubs: >--------- >California Rare Fruit Growers >Fullerton Arboretum, CSFU >Fullerton, CA 92634 >This club has a world-wide membership base and is very knowledgable >about rare plants. Send a SASE for inquiries. >(Its $16 annual, US, which includes 6 issues of 'The Fruit Gardener' >which is a color magazine, also a seed bank and seed exchange.) I'm a member, great organization! I posted the membership info and application for CRFG a few months ago; if anyone wants one, email me (I won't repost unless I get a lot of interest). >For those of you in southern california, CRFG will have their 25th >anniversary celebration in Thousand Oaks, CA, which includes tours, >plant and book sales, and food. [...] >----------- >Nurseries: >----------- [...] >Atkins Nursery Inc >3129 Reche Rd >Fallbrook, CA 92028 >(619) 728-1610 Very helpful and knowledgable staff. Last fall they were growing a mango with FIVE POUND FRUIT!!!! I think it was going to be available as grafted trees this year. Prices MUCH BETTER than home centers or local nurseries. >Orange County Source >Roger and Shirley Meyer >16531 Mt Shelly Circle >Fountain Valley, CA 92708 Roger Meyer is probably THE expert on Kiwi in California (if not US). He has many varieties most people have never heard of. (How about a red or orange fruit kiwi, to color coordinate that fruit salad!? :-) I don't think these were in production yet :-( (either fruit or plants).) -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-11, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!quack!pharvey Sat Aug 7 22:53:10 EDT 1993 Article: 20763 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: Figs Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: Date: 4 Aug 1993 21:37:54 UTC Lines: 22 In article djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) writes: >Awhile back I posted about how delicious are figs from Izmir, Turkey, >(aka Smyrna figs). I got to looking through my plant books and saw that there >is a cultivar of figs called "Smyrna", but it cannot be grown in the U.S. >Nothing to do with climate (Izmir's climate is amazingly like southern >Calif.), but instead has to do with wasps. Only self-pollinating figs can >be grown in the U.S., because the normal out-pollinating figs require a >specific species of wasp to do the dirty work, and that wasp is not found >here. Well, actually that wasp is found here, in Cali that is. There is a long story behind how the famous fig of Asia Minor, the so-called Smyrna fig, was brought to Cali. The wasps must be cultivated in another type of fig which is grown only to produce wasps and the pollen used to pollenate the Smyrna fig. These figs are then distributed in the Smyrna orchard. I would venture that most of the US Smyrna figs, called Calmyrna or similar, are grown in the San Joaquin valley of Cali. Still, the best fig has to be Black Mission as called in Cali which is none other than the standard Spanish Mission fig. [Obviously opinions vary - the mission fig does not dry well and should really be eaten fresh off the tree.] From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!julia!ramirez Sat Aug 7 22:56:03 EDT 1993 Article: 20704 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!julia!ramirez From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) Subject: California Rare Fruit Growers Message-ID: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department Date: Tue, 3 Aug 93 19:01:27 GMT Lines: 62 From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) In <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) writes: >California Rare Fruit Growers >Fullerton Arboretum, CSFU >Fullerton, CA 92634 >This club has a world-wide membership base and is very knowledgable Yes, don't let its name fool you. It has members all over the country, and indeed as far away as Africa, Czeckoslovakia and Australia. Whether or not it is a larger group than NAFEX I don't know, but my beloved weird fruit group is a very vigourous entity. >(Its $16 annual, US, which includes 6 issues of 'The Fruit Gardener' >which is a color magazine, also a seed bank and seed exchange.) The seed exchange alone is worth the price of admission. >>I'm a member, great organization! Me, too. This will sound bizarre, but for some of us, it's almost a cult. I first joined the organization on a whim. I like fruit, I thought it would be fun. I might have, as easily at the time, joined a herb or bonsai group. Instead,I joined CRFG. Within about 2 months, I turned completely into a crazed fruit maniac. All other gardening interests dropped away. Everything I read of a horticultural nature, from then on, was related to fruit--especially, weird fruit. Most of my personal friends are now weird fruiters. Grass disappeared from my yard, flowerbeds shrank. Other than a few tomato vines, leaf lettuce in the winter and onions (to stave off aphids), a few herbs, my entire property is planted over to fruit trees. I now name my naranjillas I now have to be careful among non-weird-fruiters. If they are gardeners, I try to convert them. If they ask what I grow and I tell them, their eyes glass over. It is such a habit of mine now to assume that EVERYBODY knows pittaya from pitomba, and an intellectual, if not gardening acquaintance with jaboticaba. It shocks me when they don't. I seek out new weird fruit to taste or better yet to grow. Thanks to CRFG, weird-fruiting has become something of an addiction with me. Having local chapter meetings are worth attending for the fruit tasting table alone. It was at these that I tasted my first kei apple, surinam cherry, Diospyros lotus and my durian. >>I posted the membership info and application for CRFG a few months ago; >>if anyone wants one, email me (I won't repost unless I get a lot of >>interest). Anyone with an interest in fruit growing should join. (oops,there I go again) >For those of you in southern california, CRFG will have their 25th >anniversary celebration in Thousand Oaks, CA, which includes tours, >plant and book sales, and food. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jhoskins Sat Aug 7 22:57:23 EDT 1993 Article: 20706 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jhoskins From: jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers Date: 3 Aug 1993 20:24:29 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 36 Message-ID: <23mhht$5s3@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (A lice Ramirez) writes: >From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) >In <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) writes: > California Rare Fruit Growers Fullerton Arboretum, CSFU Fullerton, CA 92634 This club has a world-wide membership base and is very knowledgable > >Yes, don't let its name fool you. It has members all over the country, >and indeed as far away as Africa, Czeckoslovakia and Australia. >Whether or not it is a larger group than NAFEX I don't know, but my >beloved weird fruit group is a very vigourous entity. > >>(Its $16 annual, US, which includes 6 issues of 'The Fruit Gardener' >>which is a color magazine, also a seed bank and seed exchange.) > >The seed exchange alone is worth the price of admission. > >>>I'm a member, great organization! > >Me, too. >From the Ohio Heartland, where a tree-ripened pear or peach may be considered rare, if not endangered, fruit: I guess I'm a member of CRFG too, but I only joined in order to receive the "Fruit Gardener" magazine. It is a FANTASTIC publication. Beautifully edited and illustrated with articles of interest to people at all stages of gardening and horticultural knowledge and experience. Membership is well worth $16 for the magazine alone. JH From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd Sat Aug 7 22:57:45 EDT 1993 Article: 20737 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers Message-ID: Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 13:43:00 GMT Lines: 11 Like Alice Ramirez, I hav joined California Rare Fruit Growers--and several other similar groups. But unlike her, I live in Ohio, zone 5, and it is frustrating to read about all the weird and wonderful fruit I CAN'T grow here. I have started a pawpaw, and am checking into roses for hips, and plan on getting some wineberries. Are there any other weird fruit fans in zone 5 or colder who have suggestions/stories/sources, etc. Dave Daulton From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!nstassen Sat Aug 7 22:58:09 EDT 1993 Article: 20760 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!nstassen From: nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicki A Stassen Lantz) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers Date: 4 Aug 1993 19:43:41 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 44 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <23p3hd$7eh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulto n) writes: >Like Alice Ramirez, I hav joined California Rare Fruit Growers--and several >other similar groups. But unlike her, I live in Ohio, zone 5, and it is >frustrating to read about all the weird and wonderful fruit I CAN'T grow >here. > >I have started a pawpaw, and am checking into roses for hips, and plan on >getting some wineberries. Are there any other weird fruit fans in zone 5 >or colder who have suggestions/stories/sources, etc. > >Dave Daulton > Hey, nice to see there are other people out here in Ohio who are interested in unique fruit! I've been growing two bananas (not unique in CA, maybe, but here in Ohio, wow!), strawberry guava, passifloras, loquats, surinam cherries, european olive, maybe 10 citrus plants, etc, etc. In fact, I have about 3 lemons coming along nicely... I'd love to grow a cocoa (theobroma cacao, maybe?) - that may be the next adventure. Most plants spend the summer on the cement area outside the kitchen door; in winter they survive in a southern window. I'll try to grow anything; even those things you "can't" grow in this climate or inside. I mean, what the heck? And, yes, I'm going to join the CRFG... Special thanks to Kelly for the original posting! Oh, one last note: I wrote last fall (I think) to the Pacific Tree Farm in CA because I was really interested in buying a chocolate tree. They sent me back a catalog with a note that they were going out of business and everything was a % off the listed price. Not many places sell chocolate plants, so I was bummed to hear this news. Needless to say, I didn't place an order, and I'm wondering if anyone out there in CA knows if they managed to get back on their feet or not.... NA Stassen lantz Programmer/Analyst The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH Zone 5 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Sat Aug 7 22:58:36 EDT 1993 Article: 20764 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers Message-ID: <23p9ml$1fa@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 4 Aug 1993 14:28:53 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> <23p3hd$7eh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Lines: 29 In <23p3hd$7eh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicki A Stassen Lantz) writes: >Oh, one last note: I wrote last fall (I think) to the Pacific Tree Farm in CA >because I was really interested in buying a chocolate tree. They sent me back a >catalog with a note that they were going out of business and everything was a % >off the listed price. >Not many places sell chocolate plants, so I was bummed to hear this news. >Needless to say, I didn't place an order, and I'm wondering if anyone out there >in CA knows if they managed to get back on their feet or not.... They did survive!! One of the employees bought the business. It was 'announced' in the "Fruit Gardener" :-) Pacific Tree Farms 4301 Lynwood Drive Chula Vista, CA 91910 (619) 422-2400 Closed Tuesday Catalog $2.00 >NA Stassen lantz >Programmer/Analyst >The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH Zone 5 -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-11, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Sat Aug 7 22:58:59 EDT 1993 Article: 20764 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers Message-ID: <23p9ml$1fa@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 4 Aug 1993 14:28:53 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> <23p3hd$7eh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Lines: 29 In <23p3hd$7eh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicki A Stassen Lantz) writes: >Oh, one last note: I wrote last fall (I think) to the Pacific Tree Farm in CA >because I was really interested in buying a chocolate tree. They sent me back a >catalog with a note that they were going out of business and everything was a % >off the listed price. >Not many places sell chocolate plants, so I was bummed to hear this news. >Needless to say, I didn't place an order, and I'm wondering if anyone out there >in CA knows if they managed to get back on their feet or not.... They did survive!! One of the employees bought the business. It was 'announced' in the "Fruit Gardener" :-) Pacific Tree Farms 4301 Lynwood Drive Chula Vista, CA 91910 (619) 422-2400 Closed Tuesday Catalog $2.00 >NA Stassen lantz >Programmer/Analyst >The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH Zone 5 -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-11, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae Sat Aug 7 22:59:44 EDT 1993 Article: 20800 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers (Long Zone 5 Stories) Message-ID: Keywords: fig pomegranate sapote tamarind naranjilla etc in cold climate Organization: UTCC Public Access References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 20:35:01 GMT Lines: 76 In article djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) writes: >Like Alice Ramirez, I hav joined California Rare Fruit Growers--and several >other similar groups. But unlike her, I live in Ohio, zone 5, and it is >frustrating to read about all the weird and wonderful fruit I CAN'T grow >here. > >I have started a pawpaw, and am checking into roses for hips, and plan on >getting some wineberries. Are there any other weird fruit fans in zone 5 >or colder who have suggestions/stories/sources, etc. Get rugosa roses for hips, they are very hardy, disease free and there are quite a few attractive named varieties. I'm into 'nomadic' tropical and subtropical fruit. My 'orchard' spends the (short) summer outdoors and the winters indoors. For this purpose, deciduous subtropicals like figs and pomegranates are ideal. They drop their leaves and go dormant in the fall, and I winter them as close to but above freezing as I can manage - in an entryway shed until late December, then in the coldest corner of the basement. Most of my plants aren't rare on a global basis, but they are rare in Canada! I started the pomegranates from seed winter before last, and they are now nice bushy little potted shrubs. I don't expect fruit from them, but they are attractive plants and easy to care for. I have 3 figs, 2 of which will likely fruit next year (they are forming tiny figs now, too late to amount to anything). I had one for many years in a 10-gallon pail that produced as many as 3 dozen figs each fall, but one year, alas, I didn't get it indoors before an early hard freeze killed it. I'm now growing figs in large pots that I can manage to move around myself - the 10-gallon pail was a lot easier with help. Figs are very popular among the Italian immigrants in Toronto. Many people grow quite large trees in their yards and either bury them for the winter or build insulated sheds around them. Nobody seems to know the names of their cultivars, unfortunately. I'm calling the ones I've got after their origins: Christie Street Grocery Black Fig, Tony's White Fig, and Tony's Brother's Red Fig. I've been promised Vittorio's Brother-in-Laws' Neighbour's Brown Fig too. I've got a sapote and a tamarind I started from seeds in fruit I bought, like the pomegranates. The sapote has very attractive palmate leaves and seemed quite happy over the winter in a cool attic room with a west window. The tamarind got rather pale and droopy over the winter in the same place, but began to grow actively once the days got longer and the weather warmed up. It has leaves somewhat like a honey locust that fold up at night. I don't expect flowers or fruit from either of these plants, but they are attractive foliage plants. This year I started a naranjilla (Solanum quitoense) from seed. It's (so far) a small plant with furry leaves and purple stems and veins. I also started some Capsicum pubescens, which is a domesticated pepper from the high mountains of Mexico. It's reputed to continue to fruit, albeit sporadically, all through the winter there, though temperatures get near but not to freezing. The plants have started blooming but haven't set fruit. I hope they will go at least semi-dormant, survive the winter and fruit next year. I have four plants, so may try different wintering methods. I've got some olive pits, sent by a friend in California, which I haven't planted yet. Perhaps in a few years I will pickle an olive or two, or make a milliliter of olive oil! I'd like to try kumquats, but haven't been able to find any with seeds (at $3.99 a pound, too!). As for hardy stuff, I'm looking for true quince (Cydonia oblonga) and may get into unusual gooseberries. I'm already grazing the saskatoons (Amelanchier spp) and Nanking cherries (Prunus tomentosa) growing as landscaping around the campus. Anyhow, I would be glad to correspond with anyone who wants to swap stories, give advice, or ask questions. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew Sat Aug 7 23:01:11 EDT 1993 Article: 20402 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew From: mcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Book Review: _Golden Gate Gardening_ Date: 27 Jul 1993 18:40:33 GMT Organization: Sun Lines: 57 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ichthous Summary: two green thumbs up This is the second year my wife and I have been container gardening, after several years of growing houseplants. We are going to move next month, hopefully to a home where we can have a "real" garden. Our inclinations are towards growing food crops (veggies, herbs, and fruits), intending to get fresh-picked quality, rather than to become self-sufficient. We are in the San Francisco Bay Area, and recently picked up a copy of the new book _Golden Gate Gardening_. Its subtitle claims that it is "The Complete Guide to Year-Round Food Gardening in the San Francisco Bay Area & Coastal California". I'm not sure I'd call any book the "complete guide" to gardening, but _Golden Gate Gardening_ is the most useful book we've found so far for our interests. First and formost, the unique gardening issues of the "Mediterranean" climate are addressed. Mild winters and cool, foggy summers make it possible to garden year-round, but make it difficult to grow some traditional garden favorites successfuly. The climate is also characterized by a delay of 45 days or more between the summer solstice and the hottest day of the year. While the author only mentions California (and a bit of the Oregon coast), I believe that a similar climate prevails in the Mediterranean area, as well as in regions of the western coasts of Africa, South America, and Australia. The largest section of the book is a comprehensive compendium of vegetables, with information on growing an enormous array of both familiar and unfamiliar crops in our region. Herbs and fruits are also well covered in their respective chapters. I should mention though, that some crops that just don't do very well in this climate receive a rather cursory treatment; given that the author has little experience with them, this is to be expected. There are weaknesses in this book. Some general gardening topics that aren't specific to this region (eg, soil amendments, pruning techniques) are covered less thoroughly, and readers would be well advised to seek out the books listed in the bibliography that cover various subjects in more detail. Also, I would have liked more thorough illustrations of the regional pests and diseases, so that I don't have to reread the text as much to identify what's ailing my crops. _Golden Gate Gardening_ also includes quite a few recipes scattered among the gardening information, as well as a rather concise (but probably sufficient) treatment of both edible and ornamental flowers. I'm not going to get rid of my other gardening books, but _Golden Gate Gardening_ is my favorite. Peirce, Pam, _Golden Gate Gardening: The Complete Guide to Year-Round Food Gardening in the San Francisco Bay Area & Coastal California_. Davis, CA: agAccess, 1993, 397 pages, illustrations by Mimi Osborne, ISBN 0-932857-10-8 (paperback). Darin.McGrew@Eng.Sun.COM The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or dumb? Who gives him sight Soli Deo Gloria! or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD?" From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!west.West.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!stimpy!pstryjew Sat Aug 7 23:01:18 EDT 1993 Article: 20407 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!west.West.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!stimpy!pstryjew From: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Seed Exchange Mailing List Date: 27 Jul 1993 19:21:03 GMT Organization: "Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation, Dallas, TX." Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-ID: <233v6vINNoko@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM> Reply-To: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.central.sun.com The seed exchange email list is now available. Requests/offerings can be send to: seeds@stimpy.Central.Sun.COM To be placed on the list send email to: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM The purpose of this list is help locate individuals interested in exchanging seeds of all types. Pete Stryjewski pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!west.West.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!stimpy!pstryjew Sat Aug 7 23:01:52 EDT 1993 Article: 20408 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!west.West.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!stimpy!pstryjew From: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Plant Exchange in Central Ohio Date: 27 Jul 1993 19:22:32 GMT Organization: "Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation, Dallas, TX." Lines: 13 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <233v9oINNoko@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM> Reply-To: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.central.sun.com I am still looking for individuals in Central Ohio (Columbus vicinity) to exchange perennial divisions/cuttings/bulbs/etc. This would be a mailing list (email) to facilitate the "disposal" of excess plant matter (besides the compost pile and hopefully get some new plants in the deal. If you are interested, please send a note to: Pete Stryjewski pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Sat Aug 7 23:04:18 EDT 1993 Article: 20470 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Fruit tree grafting - tips from limited experience Message-ID: <236i4m$l0g@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 28 Jul 1993 11:56:22 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Distribution: world Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Lines: 103 I received a few requests for grafting tips, so, based on LIMTED experience (2 years), here goes... * Sterility of the tools is important to MAKE SURE that there is no chance of any possible contamination of the graft. I use a spray bottle (e.g. like for window cleaner) with a 10-15% chlorine bleach solution (i.e. between 1:5 and 1:9 bleach-to-water ratio). Spray the tools between EVERY GRAFT. * Use a SHARP knife for making the cuts. If you don't use a grafting knife then use a knife with a thin stiff blade and a good, solid handle that you can really hold onto. A kitchen paring knife might be OK if the blade is thin and stiff, a hobby knife usually has too small (thin) a handle, a retractable utility knife (the kind with the 1x2" trapezoidal blades) works well, but make a few cuts in scrap wood first to get the oil off of the blade. I use the utility knife. For a whip (splice) graft: * Choose the location on the stock to graft, correctly. It MUST be pointing as close to vertical as possible. * Try to match the diameter of the scion to the stock as much as you can. The best size for the scion is about the same as a pencil (.25"x7") before you make your cut. (You really only want about 3 buds on the scion when you're done, but start with extra length to work with making the cut. I NEVER get a good cut the first try.) * Cut the stock first. Then cut the scion, so that the buds point in the direction you want (i.e. away from the center of the tree, and not pointed to cross other branches.) Try to make both cuts the same length. * Be sure to cut the bottom of the scion (with some plants it's hard to tell which end is UP). * You MUST match the cambium layer in the stock and the scion. (The cambium is the layer just below the bark.) If you can't match both sides of a cut because of different diameters, then match as much as you can of one side. DON'T just center the scion on the stock. * Using vinyl grafting tape (not teflon plumbers tape, it looks right but it isn't strong enough), wrap the graft snugly to hold the scion to the stock. Be sure to cover the entire cut area, if the cut is exposed, it'll either dry out or get infected, either way you lose. * Cut the exposed scion down to 3 buds. More doesn't help. It divides the energy going into the scion. * HINT NOT IN ANY GRAFTING BOOKS! * Take a 2x4" piece of PARAFILM laboratory film, stretch it lengthwise (into a 2x10" approx piece), and wrap the whole graft and scion, all the way over the end of the scion (i.e. a spiral wrap). This helps keep the scion from drying out, and you can leave it on since the buds can grow right through the PARAFILM, and it eventually just breaks down. You should be able to get PARAFILM from chemist or biology friends or lab stockrooms or lab supply companies. Try friends first, you have to buy it in 125 or 250 FOOT rolls. (That's 750 to 1500 grafts!) * Leave the tape on the graft as long as you can. Until it looks like it is girdling (strangling) the branch. * When the new growth is about 12-14 inches, pinch off the tips of the growth to force it to branch out. I'm told this will result in a healthier, more productive limb later on. * If it is growing really well, tie the limb to a stake to support it so the new growth doesn't get too heavy for the graft joint to hold up, especially if it's windy where you are. (I lost 2 grafts this way.) THE BEST WAY TO LEARN TO GRAFT IS TO BE SHOWN BY SOMEONE. It's not as hard as it sounds, watching someone do it really helps. A couple of other grafting points. Grafting does not cause the fruit produced to be some sort of hybrid between the stock tree and the scion type. The fruit will be exactly the scion type. You can graft most stone fruits onto each other: peach, nectarine, apricot, plum, almond. Although some will take better than others. (E.g., European plums and Oriental plums don't seem to graft together well.) You can also graft apple varieties onto each other, pear varieties onto each other (including asian pears (yummm!)), and some apples and pears onto each other. You can bud graft any citrus onto any other citrus. (There are probably exceptions, but I haven't heard of 'em.) That's enough for now. (I've really got to do some REAL work... :-) -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-11, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!casbs!kathleen Sat Aug 7 23:07:11 EDT 1993 Article: 20580 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!casbs!kathleen From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much) Subject: Re: The Peaches from Zone 9 (Coming to a theater near you!) Message-ID: <1993Jul31.005520.22861@casbs.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@casbs.Stanford.EDU (CASBS News Service) Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences References: Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1993 00:55:20 GMT Lines: 18 In article brdiller@vnet.ibm.com (Barry Diller) writes: >I'm installing a back yard :-) in my year-old house, and I'd like to plant some >fruit trees. I looked into planting apples, but I couldn't find a good low >chill-hours variety that I liked. Peaches, being rather native to the South, >seem to be a good choice. Texas A&M has been hybridizing peaches for the Gulf Coast climate, so your best source of information would probably be their Ag school. The County Agent would also be helpful. 10-15 years ago Sam Houston was recommended, and it did well for me, but there may be newer varieties that are better. I haven't kept up with innovations since I left Houston 9 years ago. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Kathleen Much, Editor |E-mail: kathleen@casbs.stanford.EDU CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd. |Phone: (415) 321-2052 Stanford, CA 94305 |Fax: (415) 321-1192 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly Sat Aug 7 23:08:17 EDT 1993 Article: 20582 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!kelly From: kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Rare Fruit growing article Date: 31 Jul 1993 02:36:17 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 65 Message-ID: <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu Summary: Sourcelist of nurseries and clubs I just noticed my latest issue of Veggie Life magazine ("Growing cooking and eating green") has an article entitled "Subtropical Fruits for Your Greenhouse." They cover (briefly!) cherimoya, allspice, star fruit, philodendron, acerola, passion fruit, jelly palm and jaboticaba. The best part is they give the following info at the end of the article : --------- Clubs: --------- California Rare Fruit Growers Fullerton Arboretum, CSFU Fullerton, CA 92634 This club has a world-wide membership base and is very knowledgable about rare plants. Send a SASE for inquiries. (Its $16 annual, US, which includes 6 issues of 'The Fruit Gardener' which is a color magazine, also a seed bank and seed exchange.) For those of you in southern california, CRFG will have their 25th anniversary celebration in Thousand Oaks, CA, which includes tours, plant and book sales, and food. Rare Fruit Council International Inc. PO Box 561914 Miami, FL 33256 Paw Paw Trackers Ray Jones 783 Cornell Dr Santa Clara, CA 95051 Dues are $5 the first year and $2 thereafter. Make checks payable to Ray Jones. ----------- Nurseries: ----------- Exotica Rare Fruit Nursery PO Box 160 Vista, CA 92083 (619) 724-9093 Plant list available. Atkins Nursery Inc 3129 Reche Rd Fallbrook, CA 92028 (619) 728-1610 Orange County Source Roger and Shirley Meyer 16531 Mt Shelly Circle FOuntain Valley, CA 92708 Pacific Tree Farms 4301 Lynwood Dr Chula Vista, CA 92010 (619) 422-2400 Its nice to see growing exotic fruits getting more out in the mainstream! (Is Veggie Life mainstream??!) Kelly kelly@cco.caltech.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Sat Aug 7 23:10:29 EDT 1993 Article: 20657 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Rare Fruit growing article Message-ID: <23jnn4$e1j@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 2 Aug 1993 11:51:16 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com References: <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Lines: 56 In <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) writes: [...] >--------- >Clubs: >--------- >California Rare Fruit Growers >Fullerton Arboretum, CSFU >Fullerton, CA 92634 >This club has a world-wide membership base and is very knowledgable >about rare plants. Send a SASE for inquiries. >(Its $16 annual, US, which includes 6 issues of 'The Fruit Gardener' >which is a color magazine, also a seed bank and seed exchange.) I'm a member, great organization! I posted the membership info and application for CRFG a few months ago; if anyone wants one, email me (I won't repost unless I get a lot of interest). >For those of you in southern california, CRFG will have their 25th >anniversary celebration in Thousand Oaks, CA, which includes tours, >plant and book sales, and food. [...] >----------- >Nurseries: >----------- [...] >Atkins Nursery Inc >3129 Reche Rd >Fallbrook, CA 92028 >(619) 728-1610 Very helpful and knowledgable staff. Last fall they were growing a mango with FIVE POUND FRUIT!!!! I think it was going to be available as grafted trees this year. Prices MUCH BETTER than home centers or local nurseries. >Orange County Source >Roger and Shirley Meyer >16531 Mt Shelly Circle >Fountain Valley, CA 92708 Roger Meyer is probably THE expert on Kiwi in California (if not US). He has many varieties most people have never heard of. (How about a red or orange fruit kiwi, to color coordinate that fruit salad!? :-) I don't think these were in production yet :-( (either fruit or plants).) -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-11, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Sat Aug 7 23:11:36 EDT 1993 Article: 20657 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Rare Fruit growing article Message-ID: <23jnn4$e1j@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 2 Aug 1993 11:51:16 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com References: <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Lines: 56 In <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) writes: [...] >--------- >Clubs: >--------- >California Rare Fruit Growers >Fullerton Arboretum, CSFU >Fullerton, CA 92634 >This club has a world-wide membership base and is very knowledgable >about rare plants. Send a SASE for inquiries. >(Its $16 annual, US, which includes 6 issues of 'The Fruit Gardener' >which is a color magazine, also a seed bank and seed exchange.) I'm a member, great organization! I posted the membership info and application for CRFG a few months ago; if anyone wants one, email me (I won't repost unless I get a lot of interest). >For those of you in southern california, CRFG will have their 25th >anniversary celebration in Thousand Oaks, CA, which includes tours, >plant and book sales, and food. [...] >----------- >Nurseries: >----------- [...] >Atkins Nursery Inc >3129 Reche Rd >Fallbrook, CA 92028 >(619) 728-1610 Very helpful and knowledgable staff. Last fall they were growing a mango with FIVE POUND FRUIT!!!! I think it was going to be available as grafted trees this year. Prices MUCH BETTER than home centers or local nurseries. >Orange County Source >Roger and Shirley Meyer >16531 Mt Shelly Circle >Fountain Valley, CA 92708 Roger Meyer is probably THE expert on Kiwi in California (if not US). He has many varieties most people have never heard of. (How about a red or orange fruit kiwi, to color coordinate that fruit salad!? :-) I don't think these were in production yet :-( (either fruit or plants).) -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-11, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!mala.bc.ca!oneb!mtcons!johnnie Sat Aug 7 23:11:52 EDT 1993 Article: 20658 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!mala.bc.ca!oneb!mtcons!johnnie Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: ISO a good book on herbs. Message-ID: From: johnnie@mtcons.almanac.bc.ca (John Wilkinson) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 93 12:42:44 PDT References: <1993Aug2.112407.1@stsci.edu> Organization: MT Construction, Nanaimo, B.C. Lines: 32 auer@stsci.edu (Robin) writes: > > > I am looking for any suggestions on a good book or two to buy on > Herbs. Something with tips on growing, drying, uses for herbs in cooking, > and tips for making potpourri. Is there one book out there that covers > all this or will I have to buy several books? > > Thanks in advance for your suggestions. > > Also, what can you do with lemon thyme - it sure smells great in the > garden and looks good with cut flowers, but can you make potpourri with it > or cook with it? > I have a nice book that covers most of these topics; Growing and using Herbs successfully Betty E. M. Jacobs Storey Communications, Inc. Pownall Vermont 05261 ISBN 0-88266-249-x This book is done by a lady who has run an herb farm and has a lot of tips from that perspective. As to Lemon thyme, she says it's used in cooking, makes a nice tea, can be used as a house plant and in potpourri. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!ecsgate!ccreegan Sat Aug 7 23:12:08 EDT 1993 Article: 20755 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!ecsgate!ccreegan From: ccreegan@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Charles L. Creegan) Subject: Re: ISO a good book on herbs. Message-ID: <1993Aug4.183355.15043@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> Organization: LIFO Pile Method References: <1993Aug2.112407.1@stsci.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 18:33:55 GMT Lines: 4 Rodale's illustrated encyclopedia of herbs 0-87857-699-1 -- Charles Creegan NC Wesleyan College ccreegan@uncecs.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat Aug 7 23:14:38 EDT 1993 Article: 20799 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: I am cursed with African Violets Message-ID: <1993Aug5.175223.15423@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 5 Aug 93 17:52:23 -0600 References: <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 33 In article , farmer@cs.utk.edu (SUSAN FARMER) writes: > > Almost completely unrelated to the previous post (although it might help > you, too), can anyone tell me where to get African Violet Pots? I got > one from my husbands grandmother (grandmother-in-law?). It's a two part > pot. The inner part, has a glazed lip (G), and an unglazed bottom (U). > The outer part is all glazed (G). RE: > > GGG GGG > G G > G U U G > G U U G > G UUUUU G > G G > GGGGGGGGGGG > > You put water in the glazed outer pot, and it soaks through the unglazed > inner pot. If you don't have to have an "Official Antique African Violet Pot", you can double pot... a trick that is good for any plant that likes even soil moistures. Plant the plant in a regular clay pot of the appropriate size that fits into an undrained cachepot (decorative pot). Pack the spaces between the two pots with moistened long strand sphagnum moss. The moss acts as a sponge, soaking up extra water and then re-releasing it through the inner pot's walls as the soil dries. Sphagnum is IMHO, the material of choice here because of its fungistatic/ bacteriostatic properties. The water doesn't get all gross and stinky... Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!pirates!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!asuacad!icsaa Sat Aug 7 23:15:25 EDT 1993 Article: 20749 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!pirates!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!asuacad!icsaa Organization: Arizona State University Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 10:16:10 MST From: Message-ID: <93216.101610ICSAA@ASUACAD.BITNET> Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Whiteflies - my arch nemesis References: <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> Lines: 11 Others may get to this before me, but the _Arizona Republic_ just ran a story on combatting them. Sprays don't work too well - they reproduce very quickly and it's just a waste. They suggested bright yellow strips of plastic coated with something sticky - vegetable oil, molassas, vaseline, and suspended horizontally above the plant. If you can't hang it, hold it and shake the plant. The little cloud of flies will rise, make a beeline for the yellow, and stick. Also, you can use a hand vacuum cleaner, with something bright yellow around the "nose," in the same way. Good luck. They're killing my lantana and I have an old sheet over the pruned tomatoes and peppers until after September. Stefani From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!pipex!uknet!lsl!clarke Sat Aug 7 23:15:35 EDT 1993 Article: 20734 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!pipex!uknet!lsl!clarke From: clarke@lsl.co.uk Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Whiteflies - my arch nemesis Message-ID: <1993Aug4.140311.3621@lsl.co.uk> Date: 4 Aug 93 14:03:11 +0100 References: <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd., Cambridge Lines: 8 In article <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu>, markb@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Mark Bixby) writes: > Are any biological controls available against whiteflies? There is a predator called Encarsia. I have not used it myself. It is said to be a (very small) wasp, which lays eggs in the larvae of the whitefly. If you use it outside, I'm not sure how likely they are to fly away. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!hlm Sat Aug 7 23:16:20 EDT 1993 Article: 20770 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!hlm From: hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com (Heather Magill) Subject: Re: Whiteflies - my arch nemesis Message-ID: <1993Aug4.172820.1212@phx.mcd.mot.com> Sender: news@phx.mcd.mot.com Nntp-Posting-Host: cretan.phx.mcd.mot.com Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az. References: <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 17:28:20 GMT Lines: 38 In article <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> markb@cccd.edu writes: >Whiteflies just LOVE my ornamentals. As we speak, they are munching on a brand >new $30 fuschia. > >Whiteflies are the only pest that I have to resort to spraying pesticides >against. But this is hard to do on the fuschia, since it's in a _heavy_ pot >up by the front door of my house. I don't want to spray pesticide all over >my front door. > >Are any biological controls available against whiteflies? > >If not, is there anything sprayable yet less environmentally nasty than the >Isotox or Orthene that I'm using now? > Green Lacewing Larvae eat Whitefly larvae, so do ladybugs and the small parisitic wasp Encarsia Formosa. As far as adult whitefly control. Yellow sticky traps, washing the plant with a weak dishsoap solution (test to make sure it doesn't burn the plant) let it dry and then rinse or my latest attack vacumming!! Get one of those portable dustbusters and suck those dudes up :-) Of course you have to make sure that you don't suck up any good bugs and it is *very* time consuming with multiple plants, but if you have one or two (works best with large leafed plants) it keeps them manageable. Note, vacumming does not fight the larvae nor does it give the good bugs a chance to attack the larvae, but in my case, I have mainly adult whiteflies that visit from the cotton fields :-( Hope this helps, Heather. ---- No its not snowing in my yard, its whiteflies !!!! -- hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!wujek!kk Sat Aug 7 23:16:44 EDT 1993 Article: 20757 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!wujek!kk From: kk@wujek.durham.nc.us (Krzysztof Kozminski) Subject: Re: Whiteflies - my arch nemesis Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 18:30:22 GMT References: <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> Organization: Relative Software, Inc. Lines: 19 In article <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> markb@cccd.edu writes: >Whiteflies are the only pest that I have to resort to spraying pesticides >against. But this is hard to do on the fuschia, since it's in a _heavy_ pot >up by the front door of my house. I don't want to spray pesticide all over >my front door. Whiteflies are attracted to yellow things. Pieces of yellow plastic covered with tanglefoot goo (available from Gardens Alive) work great. A piece of glass, painted yellow on the bottom and covered with a thin layer of heavy-grade motor oil on top also is supposed to work fine. Neem extract is rumored to kill them as well (never had to use it - yellow sticky traps took care of my infestation of WF) KK -- Kris Kozminski (kk@wujek.durham.nc.us) "The party was a masquerade; the guests were all weearing their faces." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!usenet Sat Aug 7 23:34:25 EDT 1993 Article: 20864 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!usenet From: cfeldman@skatter.usask.ca Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: I am cursed with African Violets Date: 8 Aug 1993 00:43:44 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 64 Message-ID: <241i80$3mm@tribune.usask.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: skatter.usask.ca >From article , by lemay@netcom.com (Killer of Trees): > I am an african violet serial killer. I have murdered more african violets > than I care to speak of, and yet, I love them. So I keep trying, and I > keep failing. > > Its getting to be a challenge. > > I rcently bought a book (oh, there's an idea), and decided to follow it > word for word. > > I bought a nice small violet. I transplanted it into a clay pot, of the > same size, that is wick-fed from the drainage hole. I keep it in a > nice western-facing window. > > A day and half after I did this, the bigger outer leaves started > getting large greyish spots on them. The undersides look bruised, and > the whole leafe gets floppy. Four of the leaves now have this > condition, and the whole leaf is flopping over the side of the pot. > > I'm killing it again! What am I doing this time?? > > Laura, hopeless. > > Cardinal rule of African Violet maintenance: do not get the leaves wet. Make sure the water hits the soil and not the leaves. Where you wet the leaves, you will kill the tissue. Which brings me to cardinal rule #2: Only use lukewarm water to water your African Violets. If you use luke- warm water, if you do happen to hit a leaf with it, the chances are much lower of damaging tissue due to cold. Keep out of direct sunlight, or if it's a place that does get sun, make sure it's the cool morning sun. Underwater the plants rather than overwater them. Easy way to tell how much watering you have done: water a soil filled pot until the pot feels heavy and water is dripping out the bottom. Remember this weight compared to a pot with soil that hasn't been watered yet. Now, all you have to do when you're deciding to water your plants is lift the pot. If it's still on the heavy side, go away. If it's way on the light side, go ahead. If the plant is screaming for water, the leaves will wilt. But in most cases, watering will juice up those leaves again. If you suspect root rot (the whole plant is wilting away and you've watered faithfully), you can try to repot while cutting away the mushy part of the root, or, you can try to salvage the genetic material and start new plants. To salvage the plant as a last resort: take a leaf and cut it midway along the stem. Make sure it's a non-rotted leaf. "Plant" the leaf stem (petiole) at an angle into some perilite or vermiculite mixed with some regular potting soil (50:50 is OK). The blade should be sort of lying on the surface of the soil but up off of it so it doesn't rot, and the petiole should be buried. Cover the container with Saran wrap or a plastic bag and put it on top of the refrigerator. It might take a month to two months, but that leaf will sprout roots, and you might get one to three plants developing alongside the leaf. Check to see if the planted leaves need water around once a week. Probably they won't need it even that often. When (if) you get plants developing, you can separate tham from the parent leaf when you get a rosette with a few leaves. Caren From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat Aug 7 23:37:45 EDT 1993 Article: 20833 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: roundup question Message-ID: <1993Aug6.163123.15446@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 6 Aug 93 16:31:23 -0600 References: <1993Aug5.225749.6882@wkuvx1.bitnet> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 20 In article <1993Aug5.225749.6882@wkuvx1.bitnet>, cabanrf@wkuvx1.bitnet writes: > I've received a few suggestions to use Roundup for killing grass and > weeds over a large area. Some questions/concerns. > > The primary concern is how fast does it breakdown. Or become non > poisonous to plant life. Since I'm gonna be using primarily organic > production in the garden to be, will this stuff linger? You can pick up the roundup faq from sunsite.unc.edu, under the sustainable agriculture heading. Basically, glyphosate works by blocking photosynthesis. When glyphosate hits the soil, it binds very tightly to the soil particles, and then is broken down to glycine (an amino acid, part of normal proteins) and phosphate, one of the major plant mineral nutrients. How long this takes depends on the soil bacteria, the temperature of the soil, and availability of water, but it's usually much less than 6 months. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!fmsrl7!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat Aug 7 23:44:24 EDT 1993 Article: 20853 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!fmsrl7!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: FAQ Message-ID: <1993Aug7.094618.15455@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 7 Aug 93 09:46:18 -0600 References: Followup-To: rec.gardens Distribution: world Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 15 In article , bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes: > Sorry to ask a question to which I should know the answer, but where are > the gardening FAQ's? Under their own subcategory under "sustainable agriculture" in the sunsite archives at sunsite.unc.edu. You can get there by ftp, telnet, or gopher. For those of you who haven't got gopher capabilities yet, nag or bribe your sysadmins! It's _wonderful_ for those of us who don't understand every computer operating system ever invented!!!!! ;-) (thanks again, Ken!) Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!psinntp!megatest!mithril!sfisher Sat Aug 7 23:44:57 EDT 1993 Article: 20838 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!psinntp!megatest!mithril!sfisher From: sfisher@megatest.com (Scott Fisher) Subject: Re: What happened to rape? Message-ID: Organization: Megatest Corporation References: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 23:11:07 GMT Lines: 21 In article steveh@eskimo.com (Steve Hoffman) writes: > >Been taking a look at potherbs lately. Cookbooks and seed catalogs have >lots of info, but nothing on rape. Seems like the big potherbs used to be >turnipgreens, mustard, and rape. What ever happened to rape? Anybody >know some seed sources or other info? > I once bought a variety of broccoli in a fancy-food type store called broccoli de rapa. It was a little like broccoli, but with smaller flowering heads and many many leaves. Since I like broccoli leaves, and am always disgusted that markets lop off these tasty treats, I bought some and loved it. I was later told it used to be called rape. Can someone confirm this? You can imagine why they don't sell much these days, bad PR due to an un-pc name. I have an entry for broccoli de rapa in my JL Hudson catalog, if the address is not in a faq somewhere I can post it. --Kim Fisher -- The mailer treats messages outside Megatest much the way Calvin treats baths. Don't trust its interpretation of the path; use sfisher@megatest.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!sunic!kitten.umdc.umu.se!fizban.solace.hsh.se!lysator.liu.se!ceci Sat Aug 7 23:46:20 EDT 1993 Article: 20862 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!sunic!kitten.umdc.umu.se!fizban.solace.hsh.se!lysator.liu.se!ceci From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson) Subject: Files available for anonymous ftp from lysator. Message-ID: Summary: Listing of garden related files at ftp.lysator.liu.se. Keywords: ftp, files, anonymous, directories, net Sender: news@lysator.liu.se Organization: Lysator ACS at Linkoping University Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1993 23:01:17 GMT Lines: 80 This is a list of garden related files currently (93-08-07) available via anonymous ftp from ftp.lysator.liu.se in Sweden. The following directories are maintained by me, Ceci (ceci@lysator.liu.se). First some explanations: "/" after a name means it is a directory. Some files may be compressed. They are usually marked ".Z" Mail me if you want me to send an uncompressed version to you. If you can't use anonymous ftp, mail me the names of files you would like me to send to you. And the actual list: /pub/gardening/: Bonsai/ Edibles/ Herbs/ Lawns/ READ_ME Books/ Faqs/ Iris/ Net/ Rose/ Bulbs/ General/ Lavender/ Ornamentals/ Soil/ /pub/gardening/Bonsai: README class3 class7 olive_tree bonsai_faq class4 grapefruit_bonsai sprouting_acorns class1 class5 growing_bonsai start_collecting class2 class6 japanese_maples /pub/gardening/Books: list seed_starting /pub/gardening/Bulbs: definition lillies /pub/gardening/Edibles: allfieldberry pole_beans strawberry_varieties /pub/gardening/Faqs: bulb_catalogue fertilizer soil catalogues herb tomato /pub/gardening/General: avocado egg_cartons pepsi_greenhouse basic_terms flower_light poinsettia clean_vases flower_vs_bugs stump_removal dandelions latin_pronunciation toxoplasmos deva organic_gardening weak_stems /pub/gardening/Herbs: cat_thyme herb_names onion_sets rhubarb_vs_aphids comfrey indoor_herbs red_clover thyme garlic lemongrass rhubarb herb_e_mail menstrual_cramps rhubarb2 ***(For herbal book recommendations, cf /pub/religion/pagan/Books/herbals.) /pub/gardening/Iris: after_bloom fertilisation illness iris_spuria borer germination iris_notha problems /pub/gardening/Lavender: drying propagation /pub/gardening/Lawns: general_advice mushrooms /pub/gardening/Net: ecogopher garden_ftp /pub/gardening/Ornamentals: everlastings lobelia_browning rhododendron_cuttings hardy_annuals mutating_pansies ribes_alpinum ipomoea_bloom plants_for_shade transplanting_perennials /pub/gardening/Rose: basic_care fungi sprays transplanting /pub/gardening/Soil: clay compost mulching Enjoy! --Ceci -- =====ceci@lysator.liu.se=========================================== Linkoeping, Sweden. 15^35'E, 58^23'N on Bressel's elipsoid. ===================================================================