From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!qiclab!therose!postmaster Tue Aug 10 23:19:26 EDT 1993 Article: 20371 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!qiclab!therose!postmaster From: Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Pond Liners and UV light Message-ID: <743738491.AA02307@therose.pdx.com> Date: 26 Jul 93 09:37:40 GMT Article-I.D.: therose.743738491.AA02307 Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com Lines: 15 Hello Russell! 21 Jul 93, Russell Randolph writes to All: RR> On the other hand, if EPDM isn't bothered by the UV, I don't want to worry RR> about this. RR> Any thoughts? One of the most outstanding things about EPDM is that it can withstand UV light. Unlike PVC pond liners, you do not need to protect it from the full sun. If you are using 30 Ml or better, it will last a lifetime. Jack From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!qiclab!therose!postmaster Tue Aug 10 23:20:24 EDT 1993 Article: 20372 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!qiclab!therose!postmaster From: Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Pond Liners and UV light (long) Message-ID: <743738491.AA02308@therose.pdx.com> Date: 26 Jul 93 09:41:26 GMT Article-I.D.: therose.743738491.AA02308 Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com Lines: 29 Hello Lance! 21 Jul 93, Lance R. Bailey writes to All: >> I am going to use EPDM as a pond liner, and am wondering about how well >> you have to prevent direct sun from hitting it. One solution is to double >> up the EPDM around the edge of the pond. This way the sun will never hit >> the real liner. LRB> There are a number of reasons to keep the sun from shining on your pond LRB> liner. First off, liners are not particularly pretty, true. LRB> and secondly the LRB> sun can/will decay the liner over time. Also true for PVC or other liners. But EPDM and Butyl will outlast you and me in the full sun. EPDM's main claim to fame is that it is used as a roofing material under full sun. It will not break down under UV light. That is what it was made for. Philip Swindells is the presiden of the International Water Lily Society and you may want to look at his book "The Complete Book of Water Gardening" Another good book is "The Stapeley book of Water Gardens". I am told that the new Ortho guide to ponds talks about EPDM as well. Jack From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!news Tue Aug 10 23:22:26 EDT 1993 Article: 20373 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!news From: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey) Subject: Re: Pond Fish Reply-To: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca Organization: University of Western Ontario Distribution: na Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 10:26:51 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jul27.102651.21198@julian.uwo.ca> References: <93207.141616HEIDIH@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Sender: news@julian.uwo.ca (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: cupoftea.ctrg.rri.uwo.ca Lines: 31 In article <93207.141616HEIDIH@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes: >Anybody out there have any ideas as to what I can feed the fish in my pond? The >y are mostly sunfish (aka crappies) with a few bass. I've been feeding them bre >ad but would like to be giving them something that is a little more beneficial >to them. It's really been fun walking down to the pond and seeing them all line >d up waiting for their 'daily bread.' And, pardon me if this seems like a crazy > group to ask; with all the discussions on pond building, I figured that one da >y there will be questions about the fish that eventually end up in the pond! i have carp (read biiig goldfish -- well 5" but getting bigger :) and they went wild the first week cleaning the pond out of mosquito larvae. (good fish, pet pet, purr purr) now they are working on the duckweed that is going wild. i supplement their diet with a commercial (tetra brand) food for cold-water fish. do not make the same mistake i made. some food is designed to be floating and the sales clerk sold me that type of food. i was not impressed. -- Lance R. Bailey System/Network Manager Robarts Research Institute NeXT/email: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca box: Clinical Trials Resources Group fax: +1 519 663 3789 P.O. Box 5015, 100 Perth Dr. vox: +1 519 663 3787 x4108 London, Canada N6A 5K8 Tell me -- why do I remain in this abusive relationship with my computer? -- JB From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!news Tue Aug 10 23:22:58 EDT 1993 Article: 20501 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!news From: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey) Subject: Re: Pond Fish Reply-To: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca Organization: University of Western Ontario Distribution: na Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 10:48:09 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jul29.104809.2863@julian.uwo.ca> References: <1993Jul27.102651.21198@julian.uwo.ca> Sender: news@julian.uwo.ca (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: cupoftea.ctrg.rri.uwo.ca Lines: 23 In article <1993Jul27.102651.21198@julian.uwo.ca> zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Hey that's me!) writes: > >i supplement [the fishes] diet with a commercial (tetra brand) food for >cold-water fish. > >do not make the same mistake i made. some food is designed to be floating >and the sales clerk sold me that type of food. i was not impressed. sigh. i left out a phrase in this post. sorry. it was supposed to read some food is designed to be floating and some is designed to sink and the sales clerk sold me that type of food. just to clear it up, sinking food is bad. i was sold sinking food. don't make the mistake i did. -- Lance R. Bailey System/Network Manager Robarts Research Institute NeXT/email: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca box: Clinical Trials Resources Group fax: +1 519 663 3789 P.O. Box 5015, 100 Perth Dr. vox: +1 519 663 3787 x4108 London, Canada N6A 5K8 Cats Hate it: when you come home late. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew Tue Aug 10 23:24:06 EDT 1993 Article: 20402 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew From: mcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Book Review: _Golden Gate Gardening_ Date: 27 Jul 1993 18:40:33 GMT Organization: Sun Lines: 57 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ichthous Summary: two green thumbs up This is the second year my wife and I have been container gardening, after several years of growing houseplants. We are going to move next month, hopefully to a home where we can have a "real" garden. Our inclinations are towards growing food crops (veggies, herbs, and fruits), intending to get fresh-picked quality, rather than to become self-sufficient. We are in the San Francisco Bay Area, and recently picked up a copy of the new book _Golden Gate Gardening_. Its subtitle claims that it is "The Complete Guide to Year-Round Food Gardening in the San Francisco Bay Area & Coastal California". I'm not sure I'd call any book the "complete guide" to gardening, but _Golden Gate Gardening_ is the most useful book we've found so far for our interests. First and formost, the unique gardening issues of the "Mediterranean" climate are addressed. Mild winters and cool, foggy summers make it possible to garden year-round, but make it difficult to grow some traditional garden favorites successfuly. The climate is also characterized by a delay of 45 days or more between the summer solstice and the hottest day of the year. While the author only mentions California (and a bit of the Oregon coast), I believe that a similar climate prevails in the Mediterranean area, as well as in regions of the western coasts of Africa, South America, and Australia. The largest section of the book is a comprehensive compendium of vegetables, with information on growing an enormous array of both familiar and unfamiliar crops in our region. Herbs and fruits are also well covered in their respective chapters. I should mention though, that some crops that just don't do very well in this climate receive a rather cursory treatment; given that the author has little experience with them, this is to be expected. There are weaknesses in this book. Some general gardening topics that aren't specific to this region (eg, soil amendments, pruning techniques) are covered less thoroughly, and readers would be well advised to seek out the books listed in the bibliography that cover various subjects in more detail. Also, I would have liked more thorough illustrations of the regional pests and diseases, so that I don't have to reread the text as much to identify what's ailing my crops. _Golden Gate Gardening_ also includes quite a few recipes scattered among the gardening information, as well as a rather concise (but probably sufficient) treatment of both edible and ornamental flowers. I'm not going to get rid of my other gardening books, but _Golden Gate Gardening_ is my favorite. Peirce, Pam, _Golden Gate Gardening: The Complete Guide to Year-Round Food Gardening in the San Francisco Bay Area & Coastal California_. Davis, CA: agAccess, 1993, 397 pages, illustrations by Mimi Osborne, ISBN 0-932857-10-8 (paperback). Darin.McGrew@Eng.Sun.COM The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or dumb? Who gives him sight Soli Deo Gloria! or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD?" From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!whale.st.usm.edu!dnewcomb Tue Aug 10 23:25:39 EDT 1993 Article: 20615 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!whale.st.usm.edu!dnewcomb From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.autos.tech Subject: Any Gravely tractor mechanics out there in net-land? Date: 1 Aug 1993 23:48:57 GMT Organization: University of Southern Mississippi Lines: 8 Distribution: na Message-ID: <23hkp9$gj8@Tut.MsState.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: whale.st.usm.edu Originator: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:20615 rec.autos.tech:41936 Having just flushed out the Zenith up-draft carb. and rebuilt the Fairbanks-Morse impulse magnito on my old Gravely 7.6 lawn tractor, I was wondering if there were any other aficionados of the wonderous 1947 technology of the Gravely here in net-land, or am it IT? -- Donald R. Newcomb * University of Southern Mississippi dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu * "The God who gave us life gave us liberty dnewcomb@falcon.st.usm.edu * at the same time." T. Jefferson (1774) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd Tue Aug 10 23:25:58 EDT 1993 Article: 20633 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Breed your ownn Message-ID: Date: 2 Aug 93 14:15:25 GMT Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T Lines: 9 Finally, here is the CORRECT title of the book I cited: "Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties," by Carol Deppe, published by Little Brown, copyright 1993. Great book, but the genetics/math gets a little hairy in places. I find myself drawing picutues in the margins to illutrate to myself the Bb, BB, etc. ratios, and I wish the author had done that for me. Dave Daulton From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 Tue Aug 10 23:27:19 EDT 1993 Article: 20723 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Is blossom end rot forever? Date: 4 Aug 1993 00:58:41 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 43 Message-ID: <23n1k1$d03@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, jwh@uncc.edu (jerry holt) says: >In article CpA@cbnewsc.cb.att.com, bermes@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Terry Bermes) writes: >> Sigh...for the first time in my ten years of gardening my >>tomatoes have been hit with blossom end rot. I've had to toss the >>first dozen tomatoes away because of this. Is this the way it >>will be for the season? Will I get any tomatoes that we can eat >>this year? We've had quite a bit of rain and I've only watered >>in the weeks that the rainfall didn't measure ~1 inch so I >>didn't think the watering was uneven or anymore so than in other >>seasons. Any suggestions, comments, sympathies or non-tax deductible >>contributions? >> >>Terry > > >Terry, I had the same problem with my tomatoes for the past two seasons. >Unfortunately, it did seem to last the entire season both times. I did, however, >harvest plenty of good tomatoes by virtue of having a large number of >plants. It just pained me to have to throw away all those tomatoes. I believe that the true cause of BER has to do with a calcium deficiency in the soil. THere's also some connection to the watering of the plants, but I believe it has something to do with depleting the calcium. There are calcium based soil additives that can be used to prevent BER. They are widely available at garden centers. Nothing harmful, just some calcium compound that gets diluted with water and watered into the garden soil. Lime or bone meal might help too. Kay Klier probably know more about the exact mechanism of BER. J. Del Col (who, thanks to Bambi and his damned pals, no longer grows tomatoes or any other edibles) > > -- Jeff Del Col * HYPERTEXT--A late twentieth century mystery cult. A-B College * Its devotees experienced the illusion of creativity. Philippi, WV * Patron saint-- Our Lady of Permutations. * --THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY, REVISED EDITION From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Tue Aug 10 23:27:36 EDT 1993 Article: 20766 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Is blossom end rot forever? Message-ID: <23pask$1pd@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 4 Aug 1993 14:49:08 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com References: <23n1k1$d03@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Distribution: world Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Lines: 34 In <23n1k1$d03@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) writes: >I believe that the true cause of BER has to do with a calcium deficiency >in the soil. THere's also some connection to the watering of the plants, but >I believe it has something to do with depleting the calcium. There are >calcium based soil additives that can be used to prevent BER. They >are widely available at garden centers. Nothing harmful, just some calcium >compound that gets diluted with water and watered into the garden soil. >Lime or bone meal might help too. Also, Gypsum TUMS (Calcium-based antacid for non-US) eggshells (slow) the water from boiling eggs (cooled off first, I HOPE I didn't need to mention that :-)) (you might try this as a foliar spray, esp in clay soils which seem to bind up the calcium) >Kay Klier probably know more about the exact mechanism of BER. I've had medium amount of BER difficulties this year. HOWEVER, the Orange Pixie Hybrid (OPH) tomatoes that came free with my big seed order from Burpee, seem to be immune to it. My two OPH vines have had NO BER problems, while bearing heavily. All the rest of my tomatoes have had some degree of BER losses. All watered on the same schedule, same soil, etc. It looks like a real winner in the BER war. -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-11, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!julia!ramirez Tue Aug 10 23:28:27 EDT 1993 Article: 20704 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!julia!ramirez From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) Subject: California Rare Fruit Growers Message-ID: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department Date: Tue, 3 Aug 93 19:01:27 GMT Lines: 62 From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) In <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) writes: >California Rare Fruit Growers >Fullerton Arboretum, CSFU >Fullerton, CA 92634 >This club has a world-wide membership base and is very knowledgable Yes, don't let its name fool you. It has members all over the country, and indeed as far away as Africa, Czeckoslovakia and Australia. Whether or not it is a larger group than NAFEX I don't know, but my beloved weird fruit group is a very vigourous entity. >(Its $16 annual, US, which includes 6 issues of 'The Fruit Gardener' >which is a color magazine, also a seed bank and seed exchange.) The seed exchange alone is worth the price of admission. >>I'm a member, great organization! Me, too. This will sound bizarre, but for some of us, it's almost a cult. I first joined the organization on a whim. I like fruit, I thought it would be fun. I might have, as easily at the time, joined a herb or bonsai group. Instead,I joined CRFG. Within about 2 months, I turned completely into a crazed fruit maniac. All other gardening interests dropped away. Everything I read of a horticultural nature, from then on, was related to fruit--especially, weird fruit. Most of my personal friends are now weird fruiters. Grass disappeared from my yard, flowerbeds shrank. Other than a few tomato vines, leaf lettuce in the winter and onions (to stave off aphids), a few herbs, my entire property is planted over to fruit trees. I now name my naranjillas I now have to be careful among non-weird-fruiters. If they are gardeners, I try to convert them. If they ask what I grow and I tell them, their eyes glass over. It is such a habit of mine now to assume that EVERYBODY knows pittaya from pitomba, and an intellectual, if not gardening acquaintance with jaboticaba. It shocks me when they don't. I seek out new weird fruit to taste or better yet to grow. Thanks to CRFG, weird-fruiting has become something of an addiction with me. Having local chapter meetings are worth attending for the fruit tasting table alone. It was at these that I tasted my first kei apple, surinam cherry, Diospyros lotus and my durian. >>I posted the membership info and application for CRFG a few months ago; >>if anyone wants one, email me (I won't repost unless I get a lot of >>interest). Anyone with an interest in fruit growing should join. (oops,there I go again) >For those of you in southern california, CRFG will have their 25th >anniversary celebration in Thousand Oaks, CA, which includes tours, >plant and book sales, and food. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jhoskins Tue Aug 10 23:28:33 EDT 1993 Article: 20706 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jhoskins From: jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers Date: 3 Aug 1993 20:24:29 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 36 Message-ID: <23mhht$5s3@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (A lice Ramirez) writes: >From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) >In <23clr1INN67v@gap.caltech.edu> kelly@cco.caltech.edu (Kelly F.) writes: > California Rare Fruit Growers Fullerton Arboretum, CSFU Fullerton, CA 92634 This club has a world-wide membership base and is very knowledgable > >Yes, don't let its name fool you. It has members all over the country, >and indeed as far away as Africa, Czeckoslovakia and Australia. >Whether or not it is a larger group than NAFEX I don't know, but my >beloved weird fruit group is a very vigourous entity. > >>(Its $16 annual, US, which includes 6 issues of 'The Fruit Gardener' >>which is a color magazine, also a seed bank and seed exchange.) > >The seed exchange alone is worth the price of admission. > >>>I'm a member, great organization! > >Me, too. >From the Ohio Heartland, where a tree-ripened pear or peach may be considered rare, if not endangered, fruit: I guess I'm a member of CRFG too, but I only joined in order to receive the "Fruit Gardener" magazine. It is a FANTASTIC publication. Beautifully edited and illustrated with articles of interest to people at all stages of gardening and horticultural knowledge and experience. Membership is well worth $16 for the magazine alone. JH From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd Tue Aug 10 23:28:39 EDT 1993 Article: 20737 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers Message-ID: Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 13:43:00 GMT Lines: 11 Like Alice Ramirez, I hav joined California Rare Fruit Growers--and several other similar groups. But unlike her, I live in Ohio, zone 5, and it is frustrating to read about all the weird and wonderful fruit I CAN'T grow here. I have started a pawpaw, and am checking into roses for hips, and plan on getting some wineberries. Are there any other weird fruit fans in zone 5 or colder who have suggestions/stories/sources, etc. Dave Daulton From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!nstassen Tue Aug 10 23:28:54 EDT 1993 Article: 20760 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!nstassen From: nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicki A Stassen Lantz) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers Date: 4 Aug 1993 19:43:41 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 44 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <23p3hd$7eh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulto n) writes: >Like Alice Ramirez, I hav joined California Rare Fruit Growers--and several >other similar groups. But unlike her, I live in Ohio, zone 5, and it is >frustrating to read about all the weird and wonderful fruit I CAN'T grow >here. > >I have started a pawpaw, and am checking into roses for hips, and plan on >getting some wineberries. Are there any other weird fruit fans in zone 5 >or colder who have suggestions/stories/sources, etc. > >Dave Daulton > Hey, nice to see there are other people out here in Ohio who are interested in unique fruit! I've been growing two bananas (not unique in CA, maybe, but here in Ohio, wow!), strawberry guava, passifloras, loquats, surinam cherries, european olive, maybe 10 citrus plants, etc, etc. In fact, I have about 3 lemons coming along nicely... I'd love to grow a cocoa (theobroma cacao, maybe?) - that may be the next adventure. Most plants spend the summer on the cement area outside the kitchen door; in winter they survive in a southern window. I'll try to grow anything; even those things you "can't" grow in this climate or inside. I mean, what the heck? And, yes, I'm going to join the CRFG... Special thanks to Kelly for the original posting! Oh, one last note: I wrote last fall (I think) to the Pacific Tree Farm in CA because I was really interested in buying a chocolate tree. They sent me back a catalog with a note that they were going out of business and everything was a % off the listed price. Not many places sell chocolate plants, so I was bummed to hear this news. Needless to say, I didn't place an order, and I'm wondering if anyone out there in CA knows if they managed to get back on their feet or not.... NA Stassen lantz Programmer/Analyst The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH Zone 5 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Tue Aug 10 23:29:03 EDT 1993 Article: 20764 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers Message-ID: <23p9ml$1fa@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 4 Aug 1993 14:28:53 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> <23p3hd$7eh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 Lines: 29 In <23p3hd$7eh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicki A Stassen Lantz) writes: >Oh, one last note: I wrote last fall (I think) to the Pacific Tree Farm in CA >because I was really interested in buying a chocolate tree. They sent me back a >catalog with a note that they were going out of business and everything was a % >off the listed price. >Not many places sell chocolate plants, so I was bummed to hear this news. >Needless to say, I didn't place an order, and I'm wondering if anyone out there >in CA knows if they managed to get back on their feet or not.... They did survive!! One of the employees bought the business. It was 'announced' in the "Fruit Gardener" :-) Pacific Tree Farms 4301 Lynwood Drive Chula Vista, CA 91910 (619) 422-2400 Closed Tuesday Catalog $2.00 >NA Stassen lantz >Programmer/Analyst >The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH Zone 5 -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-11, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae Tue Aug 10 23:29:31 EDT 1993 Article: 20800 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: California Rare Fruit Growers (Long Zone 5 Stories) Message-ID: Keywords: fig pomegranate sapote tamarind naranjilla etc in cold climate Organization: UTCC Public Access References: <1993Aug3.190127.16934@math.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 20:35:01 GMT Lines: 76 In article djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) writes: >Like Alice Ramirez, I hav joined California Rare Fruit Growers--and several >other similar groups. But unlike her, I live in Ohio, zone 5, and it is >frustrating to read about all the weird and wonderful fruit I CAN'T grow >here. > >I have started a pawpaw, and am checking into roses for hips, and plan on >getting some wineberries. Are there any other weird fruit fans in zone 5 >or colder who have suggestions/stories/sources, etc. Get rugosa roses for hips, they are very hardy, disease free and there are quite a few attractive named varieties. I'm into 'nomadic' tropical and subtropical fruit. My 'orchard' spends the (short) summer outdoors and the winters indoors. For this purpose, deciduous subtropicals like figs and pomegranates are ideal. They drop their leaves and go dormant in the fall, and I winter them as close to but above freezing as I can manage - in an entryway shed until late December, then in the coldest corner of the basement. Most of my plants aren't rare on a global basis, but they are rare in Canada! I started the pomegranates from seed winter before last, and they are now nice bushy little potted shrubs. I don't expect fruit from them, but they are attractive plants and easy to care for. I have 3 figs, 2 of which will likely fruit next year (they are forming tiny figs now, too late to amount to anything). I had one for many years in a 10-gallon pail that produced as many as 3 dozen figs each fall, but one year, alas, I didn't get it indoors before an early hard freeze killed it. I'm now growing figs in large pots that I can manage to move around myself - the 10-gallon pail was a lot easier with help. Figs are very popular among the Italian immigrants in Toronto. Many people grow quite large trees in their yards and either bury them for the winter or build insulated sheds around them. Nobody seems to know the names of their cultivars, unfortunately. I'm calling the ones I've got after their origins: Christie Street Grocery Black Fig, Tony's White Fig, and Tony's Brother's Red Fig. I've been promised Vittorio's Brother-in-Laws' Neighbour's Brown Fig too. I've got a sapote and a tamarind I started from seeds in fruit I bought, like the pomegranates. The sapote has very attractive palmate leaves and seemed quite happy over the winter in a cool attic room with a west window. The tamarind got rather pale and droopy over the winter in the same place, but began to grow actively once the days got longer and the weather warmed up. It has leaves somewhat like a honey locust that fold up at night. I don't expect flowers or fruit from either of these plants, but they are attractive foliage plants. This year I started a naranjilla (Solanum quitoense) from seed. It's (so far) a small plant with furry leaves and purple stems and veins. I also started some Capsicum pubescens, which is a domesticated pepper from the high mountains of Mexico. It's reputed to continue to fruit, albeit sporadically, all through the winter there, though temperatures get near but not to freezing. The plants have started blooming but haven't set fruit. I hope they will go at least semi-dormant, survive the winter and fruit next year. I have four plants, so may try different wintering methods. I've got some olive pits, sent by a friend in California, which I haven't planted yet. Perhaps in a few years I will pickle an olive or two, or make a milliliter of olive oil! I'd like to try kumquats, but haven't been able to find any with seeds (at $3.99 a pound, too!). As for hardy stuff, I'm looking for true quince (Cydonia oblonga) and may get into unusual gooseberries. I'm already grazing the saskatoons (Amelanchier spp) and Nanking cherries (Prunus tomentosa) growing as landscaping around the campus. Anyhow, I would be glad to correspond with anyone who wants to swap stories, give advice, or ask questions. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london Tue Aug 10 23:30:08 EDT 1993 Article: 20866 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Whiteflies - my arch nemesis Date: 8 Aug 1993 03:25:25 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 55 Message-ID: <241rn5$ja9@samba.oit.unc.edu> References: <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> <1993Aug4.172820.1212@phx.mcd.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: calypso.oit.unc.edu >In article <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> markb@cccd.edu writes: >>Whiteflies just LOVE my ornamentals. As we speak, they are munching >>on a brand new $30 fuschia. >>Whiteflies are the only pest that I have to resort to spraying pesticides >>against. But this is hard to do on the fuschia, since it's in a _heavy_ pot >>up by the front door of my house. I don't want to spray pesticide all over >>my front door. >>Are any biological controls available against whiteflies? >Green Lacewing Larvae eat Whitefly larvae, so do ladybugs and >the small parisitic wasp Encarsia Formosa. > >As far as adult whitefly control. Yellow sticky traps, >washing the plant with a weak dishsoap solution (test to make sure >it doesn't burn the plant) Thu 5 Aug 93 10:22 By: Helen Fleischer I finally have something to add to the discussion here. I've been reading an old edition of the Rodale book on composting lately. It's a thousand page tome, but interesting. Anyway, I don't know if you remember, but I had a terrible plague of whitefly for a couple of years running, that did not respond well to oil sprays. This year there's been no sign of them, though we had a mild winter and conditions would seem to favor them. My tomatoes (knock wood) are whitefly free. Why? I wondered. Well, along about 600 pages into this book, I came across the answer. Way back in the 50's a researcher found that whitefly only attacked tomato plants if the soil was deficient in magnesium or phosphorous. Well I've always used dolomitic lime, so magnesium should not have been the problem. However, I had been using superphosphate, just to use up some that my dad left behind. This year I bought and spread rock phosphate after reading that it persists in the soil better and is slow-released with the help of humic acids in the compost, so it never over-feeds. Well my plants are much healthier and there's no sign of whitefly, so I'm thinking that the superphosphate wasn't even lasting the whole season. It was pooping out in July leaving my plants hungry and prey to whitefly. And the guy at the Southern States Co-op thought I was weird for wanting this instead of the superphosphate! Another curious observation is that I do not have the powdery mildew problem I "should" be seeing after a July that was so hot and humid and lacking in rain. Could this also be because the plants are stronger for the addition of rock phosphate? I'm thinking so, because even the lilacs seem to be free of the mildew, and I gave them some of the rock powder too, to improve their blooming. I planted my squash late, putting it in after taking out a crop of peas, but so far it is free of the mildew, too. We'll see if that keeps up during August. I'm tempted to get another bag of the stuff, as insurance, and some to spread on this sorry old lawn, even though I have used Ringer's on that this spring and Roots last fall. * Origin: * MetroNet * Columbia, Md * 5.5 Gigs * (1:261/1137) From samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london Tue Aug 10 23:31:29 EDT 1993 Article: 20866 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Whiteflies - my arch nemesis Date: 8 Aug 1993 03:25:25 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 55 Message-ID: <241rn5$ja9@samba.oit.unc.edu> References: <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> <1993Aug4.172820.1212@phx.mcd.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: calypso.oit.unc.edu >In article <23mn4l$l97@spock.dis.cccd.edu> markb@cccd.edu writes: >>Whiteflies just LOVE my ornamentals. As we speak, they are munching >>on a brand new $30 fuschia. >>Whiteflies are the only pest that I have to resort to spraying pesticides >>against. But this is hard to do on the fuschia, since it's in a _heavy_ pot >>up by the front door of my house. I don't want to spray pesticide all over >>my front door. >>Are any biological controls available against whiteflies? >Green Lacewing Larvae eat Whitefly larvae, so do ladybugs and >the small parisitic wasp Encarsia Formosa. > >As far as adult whitefly control. Yellow sticky traps, >washing the plant with a weak dishsoap solution (test to make sure >it doesn't burn the plant) Thu 5 Aug 93 10:22 By: Helen Fleischer I finally have something to add to the discussion here. I've been reading an old edition of the Rodale book on composting lately. It's a thousand page tome, but interesting. Anyway, I don't know if you remember, but I had a terrible plague of whitefly for a couple of years running, that did not respond well to oil sprays. This year there's been no sign of them, though we had a mild winter and conditions would seem to favor them. My tomatoes (knock wood) are whitefly free. Why? I wondered. Well, along about 600 pages into this book, I came across the answer. Way back in the 50's a researcher found that whitefly only attacked tomato plants if the soil was deficient in magnesium or phosphorous. Well I've always used dolomitic lime, so magnesium should not have been the problem. However, I had been using superphosphate, just to use up some that my dad left behind. This year I bought and spread rock phosphate after reading that it persists in the soil better and is slow-released with the help of humic acids in the compost, so it never over-feeds. Well my plants are much healthier and there's no sign of whitefly, so I'm thinking that the superphosphate wasn't even lasting the whole season. It was pooping out in July leaving my plants hungry and prey to whitefly. And the guy at the Southern States Co-op thought I was weird for wanting this instead of the superphosphate! Another curious observation is that I do not have the powdery mildew problem I "should" be seeing after a July that was so hot and humid and lacking in rain. Could this also be because the plants are stronger for the addition of rock phosphate? I'm thinking so, because even the lilacs seem to be free of the mildew, and I gave them some of the rock powder too, to improve their blooming. I planted my squash late, putting it in after taking out a crop of peas, but so far it is free of the mildew, too. We'll see if that keeps up during August. I'm tempted to get another bag of the stuff, as insurance, and some to spread on this sorry old lawn, even though I have used Ringer's on that this spring and Roots last fall. * Origin: * MetroNet * Columbia, Md * 5.5 Gigs * (1:261/1137) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!adobe!kolling Tue Aug 10 23:33:16 EDT 1993 Article: 20873 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!adobe!kolling From: kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling) Subject: Re: companion plants for potatoes? Message-ID: <1993Aug8.174527.19514@adobe.com> Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View References: Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1993 17:45:27 GMT Lines: 18 In article babs@jfwhome.FUNHOUSE.COM (Babs Woods) writes: > > Out of curiosity, if I planted potatoes I would be planting >a monoculture in that plot and I was wondering if anyone had any >recommendations for possible companion plants for potatoes? I grow onions with potatoes, but I don't know if they're companion plants in the sense that one protects the other from pests, etc. In answer to your other question, I seem to be able to keep a patch of volunteer "little red" potatoes going year round here (N. CA) and harvest reasonably small (not tiny) potatoes in 2 months, big ones in 3 months. Last year was the first year I've planted onions (walla wallas) and they were small when the tops dried, but I suspect that may be due to excessive heat. I replanted the onionettes and they're now growing quite quickly in amongst the potatoes. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!psmith Tue Aug 10 23:33:40 EDT 1993 Article: 20890 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!psmith From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) Subject: Re: companion plants for potatoes? Message-ID: Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University References: Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 12:30:54 GMT Lines: 25 In babs@jfwhome.FUNHOUSE.COM (Babs Woods) writes: > Out of curiosity, if I planted potatoes I would be planting >a monoculture in that plot and I was wondering if anyone had any >recommendations for possible companion plants for potatoes? I haven't >heard of any, but if they exist I'd like to hear them. > Many thanks, I have had very good success with green bush beans. I plant my potatoes in rows. So I planted a ring of bush beans around each row. In other words, alternate rows and put beans at the end of each potato row as well. I have also used flax as a border, but have not tested it in isolation from the beans yet. One other companion that I've read about, but have not attempted due to its invasiveness, is Horseradish. Give the beans a try, and perhaps plant a small trap crop (potatoes with no companion) off to the side of your main crop. good luck From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eddie.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!nic.umass.edu!k12.ucs.umass.edu!k12.ucs.umass.edu!rreilly Tue Aug 10 23:34:07 EDT 1993 Article: 20965 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eddie.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!nic.umass.edu!k12.ucs.umass.edu!k12.ucs.umass.edu!rreilly From: rreilly@k12.ucs.umass.edu (Rob Reilly) Subject: Re: The Best Book on Gardening Message-ID: <1993Aug10.202910.20794@k12.ucs.umass.edu> Sender: usenet@k12.ucs.umass.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: k12.ucs.umass.edu Organization: University of Massachusetts K-12 Outreach Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 20:29:10 GMT Lines: 4 If you are interested in herbs, try Landscaping With Herbs. Simon and Schuster have a series of books that have great pictures of individual flowers and plants. Believe it or not Reader's Digest has a very useful book on plants. It is printed in England. Pat Salem,MA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!microsoft!hexnut!garyj Tue Aug 10 23:47:26 EDT 1993 Article: 20428 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!microsoft!hexnut!garyj From: garyj@microsoft.com (Gary L. Jackson (USA)) Subject: Re: What's a taxonomist? Message-ID: <1993Jul27.232734.12213@microsoft.com> Date: 27 Jul 93 23:27:34 GMT Organization: Microsoft Corp. References: <1993Jul21.151513.14987@iscsvax.uni.edu> <1993Jul21.133958.7959@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> Distribution: usa Lines: 27 Why, funny you should ask! I just had my first exposure to the wonderful world of horticultural taxonomy. Took a (basic, easy, summerschool) class on Hort. Tax. from Dr. Arthur Krukeberg of the University of Washington. [He's the author of the fine book "Gardening with Native Plants of the Pacific Northwest"] Anyway, the class was great, with lectures and labs, tearing apart flowers and, um, checking out their Parts! The nomenclature is daunting, I was glad this was a credit/nocredit course. Its an interesting world, like the ongoing reclassification battles with "lumpers and splitters" on opposite sides of arguments about consolidating or differentiating plant families. Real bonus was the field trip: Dr. K gave us a tour of the trees and shrubs of the Univ. of WA Arboretum, then we got a tour of the UW botanical greenhouses (wow, bizarre cacti, carnivorous plants, orchids, etc. etc.). Then he took us for a tour of his 4-acre garden (and his wife's nursery). Wow, amazing what you can do with 40 years of dedicated gardening! He had all kinds of rare and unusual plant material.... Hopefully I can use some of the classification keys to help in Plant ID classes.... happy gardening gary jackson garyj@microsoft.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u14371 Tue Aug 10 23:48:48 EDT 1993 Article: 20666 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u14371 Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 17:10:20 CDT From: Message-ID: <93214.171020U14371@uicvm.uic.edu> Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Keeping seeds - a book References: <27307@mindlink.bc.ca> Lines: 39 Several people have asked about keeping seeds of various vegetables, and I thought they might be interested in this book from the Seed Savers Exchange: (this is what it says on the order form) Seed to Seed, by Suzanne Ashworth. A complete guide to saving seeds of 160 vegetables. Each family and species is described in detail, including botan- ical classification, pollination methods, isolation requirements, har- vest and storage. Lists fources for seedsaving supplies, and discusses how to sell surplus seed. An invaluable handbook for those interested in main- taining unique varieties and preserv- ing our vegetable heritage. More than 70 black and white photos. Softcover, 222 pages. SS ..... $20.00 (Shipping and Handling is $4.00 to U.S., add $5.00 to Canada and Mexico, add $15.00 otherwise. Iowa residents add 5% ($1.00) tax.) Ordering information: Mail orders to: Seed Savers Exchange 3076 North Winn Road Decorah, IA 52101 Phone and Fax: (319) 382-5872 Phone 9:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. CT Fax 24 hours Credit cards only over phone. I think this is a pretty interesting book, but I wonder what others who have seen it think, expecially those who keep their own seed more often than I do (which is rarely). Hans Goeckner goeckner@uicws.phy.uic.edu GO CARDS!!!!! From samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london Tue Aug 10 23:49:35 EDT 1993 Article: 20801 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Threatened Plants - World List Date: 6 Aug 1993 02:57:46 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 72 Distribution: world Message-ID: <23shba$i26@samba.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: calypso.oit.unc.edu Article 1442 of bionet.plants: From: duncan@ibmpcug.co.uk (Duncan Bennett) Subject: Threatened Plants - World List Date: 5 Aug 1993 18:33:09 +0100 Organization: World Conservation Monitoring Centre Reply-To: Kerry.Walter@wcmc.co.uk ************************************************************** *** World Red List of Threatened Plants *** *** New Publication / Request for Information *** ************************************************************** In early 1994 the World Conservation Monitoring Centre (WCMC) will publish the first global list of threatened plants. This is a culmination of some 15 years of data gathering and analysis and attempts to incorporate all Red Data Books and Red Data Lists as well as other published and unpublished information on threatened plants; information on some 70,000 taxa is maintained in BG-BASE, a PC-based RDBMS application. This 1000+ page book will comprise approximately 36,000 taxa (ca 15% of known vascular plants) that are threatened* at either the country or world level and will include the scientific name, Red Data Book category* at the world level, inclusion on CITES Appendix, distribution by country and Red Data Book category within each country. Data sources for nomenclatural, distribution, and conservation information will also be included. Due to space constraints, synonymy, life form, common names, and presence in cultivation will be excluded. In the late stages of this project, we are attempting to fill the obvious gaps in our coverage and would appreciate hearing from anyone who reads this message who would be willing to help supply new or update our existing information. There are, of course, many errors, inconsistencies, and gaps - inevitable in a data set of this size - but we are attempting to correct as many as possible before going to press. If you are willing to supply either geographically or taxonomically based information in a very short time frame, or if you have any questions about this project, please contact Kerry.Walter@wcmc.co.uk Please state the region(s)/taxonomic group(s) you would be willing to help with and how quickly you could review or supply information. Many thanks! * the IUCN Red Data Book categories are: +__________________________________________________________________________+ | Taxa currently in BG-BASE | | Extinct in the wild (to be included in the list):....................... | | | | Ex Extinct (in the wild) 634 | | | | "threatened" categories (to be included in the list):................... | | | | Ex/E Extinct/Endangered 220 | | E Endangered 3,507 | | E/V Endangered/Vulnerable 124 | | V Vulnerable 4,359 | | R Rare 9.998 | | I Indeterminate 5,317 | | | | "non-threatened" categories (to be excluded from the list):............. | | | | C Candidate taxa 22 | | K insufficiently known (may or may not be threatened) 1,017 | | ? no information (incomplete distribution, etc) 34,793 | | nt not threatened 9,942 | +__________________________________________________________________________+ Kerry S. Walter email: Kerry.Walter@wcmc.co.uk World Conservation Monitoring Centre phone: +44 223 277-314 219 Huntingdon Road fax: +44 223 277-136 Cambridge CB3 0DL U.K. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!engage.sps.mot.com!fmbutt Tue Aug 10 23:51:14 EDT 1993 Article: 20920 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!engage.sps.mot.com!fmbutt From: fmbutt@engage.sps.mot.com (Farooq M. Butt) Subject: Re: chili peppers Message-ID: Sender: news@oakhill.sps.mot.com Nntp-Posting-Host: engage Organization: Motorola RISC Software, Austin, TX References: <1993Aug8.222139.15289@epas.toronto.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 21:29:04 GMT Lines: 25 In article <1993Aug8.222139.15289@epas.toronto.edu> klimchuk@epas.utoronto.ca (Dennis Klimchuk) writes: >I just harvested the first of what looks like a few large handfuls of >very good hot peppers (thin, about 3" long, *very* hot), and I'm >wondering what the best way to process them is. I'm going to make a >chili paste out this first batch: dump them in a food processor with >oil and a little vinigar (to prevent browning), whir them to a paste, >and keep refridgerated. I gather I can pack them whole in oil as >well. Any other suggestions, ideas, comments on either of these methods? > >Thanks in advance, > >Dennis > > I have heard some people swear by *fermented* chili paste. Does anyone know how to make this without risking death by botulism ? fmb -- Standard High-Tech Disclaimer: NOTHING in the above article has the slightest relationship to reality. If any reality correspondences are found, please notify me IMMEDIATELY. Any threats, abuse or stupidity of any kind is purely UNintentional. These are MY Opinions NOT my employer's. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!bermes Tue Aug 10 23:52:29 EDT 1993 Article: 20943 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!bermes From: bermes@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Terry Bermes) Subject: Re: Building a Cold-Frame Organization: AT&T Looney Bin Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 13:27:29 GMT Message-ID: References: <1993Aug9.160602.23318@ncar.ucar.edu> Lines: 16 >From article <1993Aug9.160602.23318@ncar.ucar.edu>, by dattore@buckhorn.scd.ucar.edu (Bob Dattore): > > Can anyone point me to information on how to build a cold-frame, and > how to make use of it? I have the Sunset Western Gardening Book, but > they don't even mention cold-frames. Thanks in advance. > > Bob Plans for cold-frames can be found in "Crockett's Victory Garden" by James Underwood Crocket, which I might add is a very good book from an organizational perspective because it is setup on a month to month basis. Mr. Crockett is way-too obsessed with chemical gardening though. "The Four Season Harvest" by Eliot Coleman also has plans which are much simpler than Mr. Crocket's. Terry From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller Tue Aug 10 23:52:39 EDT 1993 Article: 20900 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Searching person who is CD-ROMing prairie plants Date: 9 Aug 1993 16:26:22 GMT Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT Lines: 18 Distribution: na Message-ID: <245tre$3oj@GRAPEVINE.LCS.MIT.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: im4.lcs.mit.edu I appologize for sending this to the newsgroup. Will the person who is planning to make a CD-ROM of prairie plants please send me e-mail with a good mailing address. A friend of mine is working on a taxonomic project to create CD-ROMs and is very interested in contacting you. The address I gave him didn't work and I've deleted your address from my disk. Thanks, --Jill -- A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | MILLER MICROCOMPUTER SERVICES | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm -0400(EDT)| Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA |^M MMSFORTH: The cure for the common code.| 42 18'00.79" N, 71 22'27.68" W|  From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!horn Tue Aug 10 23:52:53 EDT 1993 Article: 20937 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!horn From: horn@netcom.com (Jim Hornbeck) Subject: Re: Chile Magazines Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] References: <2C66A878.5695@news.service.uci.edu> Distribution: rec Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 03:52:51 GMT Lines: 35 The best (and only, for that matter) Chile Magazine that I know of is CHILE PEPPER Spicy World Cuisine P. O. Box 15308 North Hollywood, Ca. 91615-5308 800 959 5468 In spite of the California address it's published in New Mexico. The first few issues each highlighted a different pepper and were great reading. A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A -- Jim Hornbeck WA6GHF | If I could remember all those names horn@netcom.com | I'd have been a botanist. GEnie L.Hornbeck | Enrico Fermi From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!uunet!psinntp!megatest!mithril!sfisher Tue Aug 10 23:53:02 EDT 1993 Article: 20980 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!uunet!psinntp!megatest!mithril!sfisher From: sfisher@megatest.com (Scott Fisher) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Chile Magazines Message-ID: Date: 10 Aug 93 21:50:27 GMT References: <2C66A878.5695@news.service.uci.edu> Distribution: rec Organization: Megatest Corporation Lines: 17 In article <2C66A878.5695@news.service.uci.edu> mspitzer@sanger.bio.uci.edu (Matt Spitzer) writes: > >Does anyone out there know the names and addresses of the Chile-head >magazines? Could you please post them if you do? > >-Matt Spitzer Chile Pepper Magazine P.O. Box 15308, North Hollywood, CA 91615-5308 or call 1-800-9595-HOT Kim -- The mailer treats messages outside Megatest much the way Calvin treats baths. Don't trust its interpretation of the path; use sfisher@megatest.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!ra!shiva4175.nrl.navy.mil!user Tue Aug 10 23:54:24 EDT 1993 Article: 20916 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!ra!shiva4175.nrl.navy.mil!user From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) Subject: Rodale Gardenfest & shallot question Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: usenet@ra.nrl.navy.mil Organization: Naval Research Lab Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 20:31:55 GMT Lines: 25 Just out of curiosity, did anyone else make it to the Rodale Institute/OG Gardenfest in Kutztown, PA this past Saturday? I was somewhat disappointed in one of the seminars ("Seedstarting from A-Z" barely made it to maybe D, IMHO, because the speakers were a cute old married couple with lots of jokes but no organization whatsoever ;^>). The other 2 i attended (International Cooks Garden, by Renee Shepherd of Shepherds Seeds, and Seedsavers, by Ken Ausabel from Seeds of Change) were very informative and interesting. I'd always wanted to see the Rodale gardens, so it was a good opportunity. Interesting seeing commercial-scale corn fields, etc. with the weeds left in! Only thing i regret is, i never got to meet Mike McGrath, the new editor of OG. Also it wouldve been nice to attend a lecture on the work going on at the Institute, but that's just my 'satiable curiosity. All in all a pleasant experience, and we bought some great Amish-grown fruit (usually pesticide free, but i forgot to ask) on the lovely drive back... My question pertains to the organic shallots i picked up there: is it too early to plant them for a fall planting in Zone 7? I can probably save them a few weeks if necessary, but dont want to wait so long that they to go to waste... Thanks! Judy Karpen "pushing back the frontiers of science...." karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil Code 7675K, NRL, Washington DC 20375-5352 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!apamea.swarthmore.edu!user Tue Aug 10 23:54:41 EDT 1993 Article: 20922 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens,alt.folklore.herbs Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!apamea.swarthmore.edu!user From: dumic@cc.swarthmore.edu (Mark J. Dumic) Subject: Aztec Sweet Herb Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: news@cc.swarthmore.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: apamea.swarthmore.edu Organization: Swarthmore College Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 21:49:02 GMT Lines: 18 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:20922 alt.folklore.herbs:709 I recebtly bought something called the Aztec Sweet Herb (Lippia dulcia). It's a perenial member of the Verbena family. The tag says that it was used by the Aztecs as a sweetner and is 1000 times sweeter than sugar. I've tasted a leaf and it did taste sweet. In a catalog that I have, it says that it's the flower that is used to sweetener. Does anyone know for sure what part of the plant is used? Is there any harm in using the leaf (since it is sweet)? No where have I seen much of a description of the conditions that this plant preferrs. Does anyone have any info on sun and soil conditions? -------------------------------------------------------------- Mark J. Dumic Manager of Networking and Systems Swarthmore College 500 College Avenue Swarthmore, PA 19081 (215) 328-8511 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!uunet!psgrain!quack!pharvey Tue Aug 10 23:54:56 EDT 1993 Article: 20964 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens,alt.folklore.herbs Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!uunet!psgrain!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: Aztec Sweet Herb Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: Date: 10 Aug 1993 19:17:09 UTC Lines: 33 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:20964 alt.folklore.herbs:715 In article dumic@cc.swarthmore.edu (Mark J. Dumic) writes: >I recebtly bought something called the Aztec Sweet Herb (Lippia dulcia). >It's a perenial member of the Verbena family. The tag says that it was >used by the Aztecs as a sweetner and is 1000 times sweeter than sugar. >I've tasted a leaf and it did taste sweet. In a catalog that I have, it >says that it's the flower that is used to sweetener. Does anyone know for >sure what part of the plant is used? Is there any harm in using the leaf >(since it is sweet)? >No where have I seen much of a description of the conditions that this >plant preferrs. Does anyone have any info on sun and soil conditions? _Cornucopia: A Source Book of Edible Plants_, Stephen Facciola, Kampong Pubs, Vista, CA, 1990, ISBN:0-9628087-0-9: Lippia dulcis -> Phyla scaberrima Phyla scaberrima - Aztec sweet-herb, Orozuz, Sweet lippia. The aromatic leaves are occasionally eaten in salads, or used as a condiment. More often they are chewed for their intensely sweet flavor or used to sweeten teas and other beverages. The licorice-flavored roots are chewed. Central America, Caribbean. _Hortus III_, ISBN:0-02-505470-8: Phyla: Lour. Frogfruit. Verbenaceae. About 15 spp. of procumbent or crepping per. herbs, native to warm and trop. regions; plants glabrous or with 2-armed hairs; lvs. opp., toothed or lobed, fls. small, violet, blue, pink, or white, in dense spikes on axillary peduncles, calyx 2-lobed, enlarging and enclosing the fr., corolla 2-lipped, stamens 4; fr. dry, of 2 nutlets. P. scaberrima not listed. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!dewey.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Tue Aug 10 23:55:18 EDT 1993 Article: 20953 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!dewey.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: leander@dewey.cc.utexas.edu (James Daniel) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Aztec Sweet Herb Date: 10 Aug 1993 12:16:50 -0500 Organization: The University of Texas - Austin Lines: 34 Message-ID: <248l62$gm4@dewey.cc.utexas.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dewey.cc.utexas.edu Aztec sweet herb prefers cool mountainous areas that get plenty of rain and fog. It likes well-drained soil with a high mix of limestone pebbles, I was told by my botany teacher. It grows mostly in the mountains of places like Colombia and is becoming endangered due to overharvesting. The leaves are usable but the reasons flowers were traditionally used is that flowers are sweeter and leaf removal often kills the plant. Also, if you buy leaves chances are the plant was uprooted or lopped off at ground level, preventing its reproduction. The plant is indeed much sweeter than sugar and is a safe traditional sugar substitute. Due to its threatened status I would recommend trying to grow your own or using other more readily available sweeteners, unless you are a diabetic or are allergic to the usual sweeteners. The plant likes full sun if you live in a foggy cool climate like Britain or Oregon, partial shade or indoor plant otherwise. It is a close relative of _Lippia graveolens_, Mexican oregano. Beware as this plant is not very hardy and will freeze if you are colder than about Zone 6 supposedly. Indoors and out it likes average soil of a neutral pH to a very slightly basic pH (6.8-7.5). If you grow it inside try a sunny south-facing window and mist occasionally. Divide or regrow from cuttings every few years or it will get woody and lose potency. If you got an actual plant for your garden (sounds like it), please email the source address to me or post it as I am interested in helping preserve this useful plant by cultivating it. Thanks and good luck. P.S. Didn't the place you got your plant from know how to grow it? {tsk, tsk. Likely trying to keep their trade secrets secret so you'd have to buy more plants later.} . From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!uunet!news.larc.nasa.gov!grissom.larc.nasa.gov!kludge Tue Aug 10 23:55:28 EDT 1993 Article: 20978 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!uunet!news.larc.nasa.gov!grissom.larc.nasa.gov!kludge From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Aztec Sweet Herb Message-ID: <248484INNm3r@rave.larc.nasa.gov> Date: 10 Aug 93 12:27:48 GMT References: Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov In article dumic@cc.swarthmore.edu (Mark J. Dumic) writes: >I recebtly bought something called the Aztec Sweet Herb (Lippia dulcia). >It's a perenial member of the Verbena family. The tag says that it was >used by the Aztecs as a sweetner and is 1000 times sweeter than sugar. >I've tasted a leaf and it did taste sweet. In a catalog that I have, it >says that it's the flower that is used to sweetener. Does anyone know for >sure what part of the plant is used? Is there any harm in using the leaf >(since it is sweet)? Are you sure this isn't Stevia rebaudiana bertoni? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!apamea.swarthmore.edu!user Tue Aug 10 23:55:56 EDT 1993 Article: 20922 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens,alt.folklore.herbs Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!apamea.swarthmore.edu!user From: dumic@cc.swarthmore.edu (Mark J. Dumic) Subject: Aztec Sweet Herb Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: news@cc.swarthmore.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: apamea.swarthmore.edu Organization: Swarthmore College Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 21:49:02 GMT Lines: 18 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:20922 alt.folklore.herbs:709 I recebtly bought something called the Aztec Sweet Herb (Lippia dulcia). It's a perenial member of the Verbena family. The tag says that it was used by the Aztecs as a sweetner and is 1000 times sweeter than sugar. I've tasted a leaf and it did taste sweet. In a catalog that I have, it says that it's the flower that is used to sweetener. Does anyone know for sure what part of the plant is used? Is there any harm in using the leaf (since it is sweet)? No where have I seen much of a description of the conditions that this plant preferrs. Does anyone have any info on sun and soil conditions? -------------------------------------------------------------- Mark J. Dumic Manager of Networking and Systems Swarthmore College 500 College Avenue Swarthmore, PA 19081 (215) 328-8511 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!oswego!oswego.Oswego.edu!ebozak Tue Aug 10 23:56:21 EDT 1993 Article: 20902 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!oswego!oswego.Oswego.edu!ebozak From: ebozak@oswego.Oswego.edu () Subject: Summary-Growing boxwood in Upstate NY Message-ID: <1993Aug9.163147.5960@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Originator: ebozak@gidney.oswego.edu Sender: news@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Network News) Reply-To: ebozak@oswego.Oswego.edu () Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 16:31:47 GMT Lines: 60 Thanks to all of you who responded to my initial posting on whether or not an English boxwood from Mount Vernon would survive in Upstate NY. A number of you told me of seeing boxwood growing in MA, Chicago, and Michigan (although the hardiness of the variety of boxwood we had obtained was questioned). Two respondents in particular were able to give me very detailed advice based on their own experiences and knowledge; I have included substantial quotes from their replies below. >From Bob Richardson (rcr@mcs.cornell.edu): "I am writing in response to your quiry regarding the growing of English boxwood in upstate New York. The answer is yes. I live in Ithaca, NY and transplanted a 25 year old 'English Boxwood' from Arlington, Virginia to Ithaca 25 years ago. I use quotation marks because a number of boxwood varieties go under that name. It is very likely that yours is the same as mine because of the region of origin... ... The only serious weather issue is related to heavy snow. You must shake it off rather carefully before its weight breaks the plant. The limbs become brittle in cold weather and snow can permanently break some of the limbs. Even then you can usually repair the damage in the Spring by tying the weakened limbs back into position using ordinary twine. This type of boxwood is very easy to propagate by cuttings.. English gardens have quite elegant topiary made from boxwood. It is probably the best of all shrubs for this purpose if one has the patience. The plant grows less than 1 inch per year. My 50 year old bush is still only 4 feet tall. The 6 and 7 foot high topiary plants in the British gardens took more than a century to create!" >From George R. Stritikus (George.R.Stritikus@acenet.auburn.edu): "I'm a horticulturist here in Alabama but also a member of the American Boxwood Society. You probably will have little trouble.....but there are a few things to watch out for. 1. Winter wind - evergreens have a hard time with this and dry out badly. try to plant yours in a protected place, sheltered from winter wind. 2. Early morning winter sun - try to select a place where it will NOT get early morning sun. This warms the tissue too rapidly while it is still frozen. Sun after about 10:00am is ok." Again, thanks to all who sent information. I found a spot in my flower bed which will fit the bill, I think. Since our snow tends to be rather heavy (we get an averge of about 150" of lake effect snow), I plan to cover my boxwood once winter comes. With a little luck, we'll be enjoying our Mount Vernon momento for years to come. Esther -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Esther S. Bozak * ebozak@cs.oswego.edu (315) 341-2684 * * Computer Science Dept. * * * SUNYCO * "Qui, j'ai eprouve de l'herbe aux chats, * * Oswego, NY 13126 * mais je ne m'ai jamais en rouler." - Socks * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!deep.rsoft.bc.ca!mindlink!a8331 Tue Aug 10 23:56:39 EDT 1993 Article: 20931 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!deep.rsoft.bc.ca!mindlink!a8331 From: Moira_Carlson@mindlink.bc.ca (Moira Carlson) Subject: Companion plants for potatoes Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 01:37:39 GMT Message-ID: <27639@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet News at rsoft.bc.ca) Lines: 25 In response to Babs Woods: babs@jfwhome.FUNHOUSE.COM who writes: >Out of curiosity, if I planted potatoes I would be planting >a monoculture in that plot and I was wondering if anyone had any >recommendations for possible companion plants for potatoes? I haven't >heard of any, but if they exist I'd like to hear them. I have a book entitled "Carrots Love Tomatoes" by Louise Riotte, Garden Way Publishing, 1985. According to her, potatoes should be grown near: beans, corn, cabbage, horseradish, marigold and eggplant. They shouldn't be grown near: pumpkins, tomatos, raspberry, squash, cucumber, sunflower. Ms.Riotte goes in to a fair amount of detail, and does give some reasons for the above. If you want to try out companion planting, this books gives a lot of information on it. Now I'm interested too. What is the net experience/opinion on companion planting? As an example, I have been growing garlic and chives around my roses for several years (one of the classic bits of lore re companion planting) and I can't see that it makes any difference at all. -Cheers, -Moira Carlson From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Tue Aug 10 23:57:53 EDT 1993 Article: 20988 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Tomato Experiment Message-ID: <1993Aug10.211106.15516@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 10 Aug 93 21:11:06 -0600 References: <27645@mindlink.bc.ca> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 16 In article <27645@mindlink.bc.ca>, Gordon_Croft@mindlink.bc.ca (Gordon Croft) writes: > We live about 20 miles north of the US border in Canada (west coast). Last > year I built a shed/greenhouse and this year I was busy finishing it, so I > was a bit late getting things started. Anyway two days ago I planted some > tomato seed in the greenhouse (Roma tomatoes). The greenhouse is heated but > I am still unsure if they will amount to anything. Do you think the lack of > sun light will affect the formation of fruit as we go into winter? Would it > help if I used electric lights? I'm not trying to grow world class tomatoes > in the dead of winter or anything... just and experiment. I kept a Sweet 100 plant producing all winter (though at less than summer rates) in a west-facing window during the day, and under a couple of incandescent bulbs in the evening. Yes, light and temperature are the major factors. You'll also have to hand pollinate. Kay Klier From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!nstassen Tue Aug 10 23:58:08 EDT 1993 Article: 20940 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!nstassen From: nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicki A Stassen Lantz) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Free Seeds (Updated) Date: 10 Aug 1993 12:44:03 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 36 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <24856j$1pr@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Hello everyone! First, let me thank all the nice people out there who have written me about the seeds I'd like to get rid of; I'm overwhelmed by the response I have gotten and all the cool people out there on rec.gardens who I have heard from... The peppers were gone before I finished logging off after posting the first list :)... Now, I've cancelled (I think) my previous post because I don't have many packets left. Here's all I have, folks. Anyone interested in any of these please email me. Thanks again, Nicki Tomato: Tip-top Tomato: Pixie Hybrid II Carrot: Planet Radish: Snow Belle Onion: Barletta Lettuce: Salad Bowl Leaf Broccoli: De Cicco Celtuce (now, why hasn't this been snapped up?? ;) ) Chinese Cabbage: Tah Tsai Corn Salad: European Strain Hibiscus: Disco Belle Mix Zinnia: Bouquet White Hybrid Zinnia: Thumbelina "Tree Tomato": Cyphomandra betacea "Carambola": Averrhoa carambola "Egg Tree": Solanum melongena From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!newshost.wcc.govt.nz!kosmos.wcc.govt.nz!woods_m Tue Aug 10 23:59:00 EDT 1993 Article: 20370 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!newshost.wcc.govt.nz!kosmos.wcc.govt.nz!woods_m Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Questions about grass grub in lawn Message-ID: <1993Jul27.153637.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz> From: woods_m@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Date: 27 Jul 93 15:36:37 NZST Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access. NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Lines: 23 Could someone please post information on grass grubs please? Our next door neighbour has discovered that the reason why his grass has died off is because he has grass grubs eating the roots of it. His lawn looks TERRIBLE! We at first thought it was just because he hadn't been watering it but then noticed lots of holes in the soil like it was full of worms. Someone from a gardening shop came and diagnosed the problem as grass grubs. The lawn is only 3 years old and was laid as a ready lawn, not sown. It used to look nice but now looks brown, the grass has died off completely and you can see the soil instead. A house two houses along from our neighbour has also discovered the beginnings of grass grub in their lawn. My questions are how do you get rid of it, how does it "spread", how can we protect our property from it? Fortunately (I think ;)) we haven't yet got our lawn in (a new house), we're thinking of doing it soon though (it's mid winter here at the moment), is there something we should do before sowing grass seed to ensure we don't get the dreaded grass grub too? Thanks for any help you can offer! Lynette Woods, Wellington, New Zealand From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!bigtop!zuckuss!seb1 Wed Aug 11 00:10:12 EDT 1993 Article: 20974 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!bigtop!zuckuss!seb1 From: seb1@dr.att.com (Sharon Badian) Subject: Backyard Vegetable Factory experience? Message-ID: Sender: news@bigtop.dr.att.com (Netnews Administration Login) Reply-To: seb1@dr.att.com Organization: Bell Labs, Denver, CO. Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 20:49:36 GMT Lines: 23 Back when I lived in NJ and had a real(tm) yard, I bought this book called "The Backyard Vegetable Factory" by Duane Newcomb, Rodale Press. Right after I got it I moved to a house with a tiny yard and no sun so it's been hiding in my bookcases ever since. Finally, I find myself with the chance to have a real veggie garden again next year and I pulled out this book. Has anyone tried the intensive veggie growing described in the book? It's even more intensive than Square Foot Gardening. Looking for any impressions - how hard to actually set up, plan, keep going. Is it cost effective if you have limited space for a garden? And, by the way, what is limited space? I'm going to have 6 raised beds, each 6x4 feet. Is that small? Large? We're talking about growing veggies for two adults and one small child. Thanks for the help! -- Sharon Badian AT&T Bell Labs - Denver seb1@dr.att.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!NewsWatcher!user Wed Aug 11 04:31:26 EDT 1993 Article: 20995 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!NewsWatcher!user From: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@cs.wisc.edu (Bob Klebba) Subject: Re: Building a Cold-Frame Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp Nntp-Posting-Host: mac1_18 Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation References: <1993Aug9.160602.23318@ncar.ucar.edu> <1993Aug9.211156.16028@das.harvard.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 18:24:33 GMT Lines: 8 Rodale's book on greenhouses has an excellent plan for a cold frame. I adapted the plan to exclude the insulation bits. The most unique thing about their plan is that it maximizes the glazing/growing space ratio. Bob Klebba Nicolet Instrument Corp. Madison, WI, USA USDA zone 4 "Submit to Barney" From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!dewey.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Sat Aug 14 13:05:18 EDT 1993 Article: 21050 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!dewey.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: leander@dewey.cc.utexas.edu (James Daniel) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: companion planting Date: 11 Aug 1993 21:57:21 -0500 Organization: The University of Texas - Austin Lines: 16 Message-ID: <24cbih$inj@dewey.cc.utexas.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dewey.cc.utexas.edu Growing garlic, chives and onions around the roses has kept aphids off my roses and given me healthier Alliums. Probably because they really like the rich soil mix provided for the rose bed. Also, it is an efficient use of space! Growing rosemary mixed in with the mint seems to keep mint pests away too. (rosemary is mostly pest-free) Growing pennyroyal at various intervals in the herb garden has kept ants from moving into the loose, sandy soil they like so much for tunneling. It even kept out fire ants! As for the rest, I don't know if they work but I think many have a scientific reason for working well together. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!uunet!destroyer!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!alberta!fantom!ersys!Freddy!jerome.yuzyk Sat Aug 14 13:06:43 EDT 1993 Article: 21051 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!uunet!destroyer!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!alberta!fantom!ersys!Freddy!jerome.yuzyk From: jerome.yuzyk@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Jerome Yuzyk) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: NASA providing Midwest fl Message-ID: <50.8388.1066.0N002167@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 02:19:00 -0520 Distribution: world Organization: Freddy's Place BBS - Edmonton, AB - 403-456-4241 Lines: 83 [~~~~~~~~~~~] Original From: ANDREW YEE, SCIENCE NORTH [ FORWARDED ] To: ALL [ MESSAGE ] Date/Number: 07/31/93 - 0002599 [...........] On: FREDDY - 1099 - space.news ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *@FROM :R4650001@NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA *@SUBJECT:NASA providing Midwest flooding information Message-ID: <1993Aug1.011621.14733@news.arc.nasa.gov> Newsgroup: sci.space.news Organization: Science North [Extracted from Spcelink BBS.] Brian Dunbar Headquarters, Washington, D.C. July 22, 1993 Myron Webb John C. Stennis Space Center, Miss. RELEASE: 93-134 NASA PROVIDING MIDWEST FLOODING INFORMATION NASA is providing needed assistance to the Federal Emergency Management Agency's (FEMA) efforts to gather information on the flood-damaged Midwest. On July 17 and 18 at FEMA's request, personnel from NASA's John C. Stennis Space Center (SSC), Miss., flew specialized sensors mounted in an airplane over portions of the midwestern states. The first two missions covered an area from Cairo, Ill., to Chester, Ill., with an emphasis on Cape Girardeau, Mo. Plans for another flyover to acquire digital imagery and infrared photographs from Kansas City, Mo., to Omaha, Neb. will be arranged, weather permitting, at the first opportunity. With digital imagery, information from a particular area can be collected, computer analyzed and compiled more quickly than with conventional photography. The resulting information is more versatile than other forms of data. Changes in conditions can be updated and edited immediately. FEMA will use these images to assist in charting flood- damaged areas, to boost the emergency management agency's computer database on the region and to update flood insurance maps. In addition, the data will be used in assessing the status of residential and industrial areas and related infrastructure such as roads, bridges and rail services. Another major concern to FEMA is getting initial disaster assistance to the people who need it most. "The NASA data will be especially useful to the Federal Emergency Management Agency in their efforts to quickly settle flood insurance claims, making sure those who need the help receive assistance in a very timely manner," said NASA's Roy Estess, Director of SSC. "This is an effective use of available resources that can save taxpayer dollars." While flying the aerial reconnaissance mission, photographic-like digital imagery and high-resolution infrared photographs were taken of the flooded region. The missions were flown at 41,000 feet and at 6,600 feet, producing both multispectral digital imagery and color photography at different degrees of resolution down to 15 feet. "We hope that NASA and SSC are providing a valuable service to the Federal Emergency Management Agency. While other agencies are furnishing data to FEMA, NASA is the only agency offering digital imagery," Estess said. SSC can respond quickly with important information in emergency situations. The NASA facility has played an integral part in developing digital imaging technology for use in disaster assessment. In August 1992, SSC provided the state of Florida with both digital imagery and infrared photography of South Florida areas hit hardest by hurricane Andrew. The imagery helped officials assess the damage, prioritize relief efforts and develop long-term land use plans. SSC continues to work with FEMA as that agency follows the cresting of the Mississippi River and the areas affected by the flooding. "We remain in close contact with FEMA and will provide assistance in an effort to help resolve this national emergency," said Estess. * RM 1.0 00857 * Regardless of what you may think, this is NOT a tagline. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!hhb!bvk Sat Aug 14 13:06:52 EDT 1993 Article: 21215 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!hhb!bvk From: bvk@princeton!hhb (Brett Kuehner) Subject: Re: Chile Magazines Message-ID: <1993Aug13.160127.1843@princeton!hhb> Organization: Racal-Redac References: <2C66A878.5695@news.service.uci.edu> Distribution: rec Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1993 16:01:27 GMT Lines: 30 mspitzer@sanger.bio.uci.edu (Matt Spitzer) writes: >Does anyone out there know the names and addresses of the Chile-head >magazines? Could you please post them if you do? The current issue of Chile Pepper says: 1 Year (6 issues) $18.95 2 years (12 issues) $33.95 Mail to: Chile Pepper P.O. Box 15308 North Hollywood, CA 91615-5308 Or call: (800) 9595-HOT (800) 959-5468 Chile Pepper is the only chile magazine I'm aware of, although the current issue mentions a "Curry Club", based in the UK, which publishes a quarterly curry magazine. Brett -- Brett Kuehner, Racal-Redac, Mahwah, NJ bvk@redacam.redac.com ...!princeton!hhb!bvk From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat Aug 14 13:07:42 EDT 1993 Article: 21109 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Potting soil without earth? Message-ID: <1993Aug12.153526.15559@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 12 Aug 93 15:35:26 -0600 References: Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 32 In article , ab419@Freenet.carleton.ca (Andre Jutras) writes: > > I'm having a hard time finding good potting soil to use for repotting two > Bonsai plants (Juniper, Boxwood). It seems that everything that is sold > commercially as potting soil is made of shredded decayed tree stumps or > something like that. Maybe I'm wrong and there has been new developments > in potting soil that I dont know of. Can anyone tell me if these two > plants can be potted in what is currently sold as potting soil? I was > tempted to just dig out behind a farmer's field and use good garden earth. > Why cant you buy garden earth as potting soil? > -- Sounds like you're looking at stuff like Metro-Mix, Jiffy-Mix, Redi-Earth... which I've never had a whole lot of luck with. You don't want to use plain soil (even good garden loam) because the soil packs together too much, and the roots can't get air properly (that's one of the many functions of earthworms and other burrowing critters outside: they keep the soil full of airspace). My old all-purpose greenhouse mix is equal parts of sand (the sharp beige stuff used for sandboxes, not fine quartz or coral sand from the beach), finely chopped sphagnum, and good black dirt. Sterilize before use. You can vary the composition to suit the plants (e.g., more sphagnum for something that needs lots of water, more sand for succulents). The stuff I see sold as "potting soil" around here at K-Mart/Walmart type places is basically compost, and seems too "pack-downy" to me. I add healthy amounts of perlite or sand to it before use. The "Sam's Choice Potting Soil" at Walmart is a cut above the regular stuff, and mostly usable as is. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Sat Aug 14 13:08:44 EDT 1993 Article: 21060 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: martin.zurn@cen.jrc.it (Martin Zurn) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Q: How to limit KIWI fruit plant growth Date: 12 Aug 1993 06:49:35 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 13 Sender: daemon@cs.utexas.edu Message-ID: <9308121149.AA29834@dac.ise.jrc> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu Hi out there, Gotta huge KIWI plant in my garden. I let the plant in peace (don't even give water to it) and it keeps growing and growing and intruding into my neighbor's garden. It covers an area of abt 10 sq.mtrs. The smell of the plant is not nice at all... Is there a way to limit the growth of it? We don't even know what to do with the fruits. Last year we consumed only a small fraction of the fruits. Any help will be appreciated (email martin.zurn@jrc.it). Please send private mail, in case I got satisfactory input I will send a summary of responses to the newsgroup. Tnx in advance. -- Martin A. Zurn (Internet: martin.zurn@jrc.it) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat Aug 14 13:09:46 EDT 1993 Article: 21110 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: pollinating tomatoes? (Tomato Sex:-) Message-ID: <1993Aug12.153852.15560@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 12 Aug 93 15:38:52 -0600 References: <1993Aug12.172707.20653@adobe.com> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 15 In article <1993Aug12.172707.20653@adobe.com>, kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling) writes: > > The fruit set on my tomatoes has been so poor that I've been > attempting to hand-pollinate them, but I don't actually know > how, so I've just been generally molesting the flowers. Is there > something more specific to do? Thanks. If you want to be scientific about it, you get a little camel's hair paint brush and use it to extract pollen from anthers that have just opened, and apply the pollen to stigmas that have just become receptive. If you want to get real, grab the stem and shake back-and-forth quickly (about a 3-4" side to side motion) for 30 sec or so each morning. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!livia.acs.Virginia.EDU!jef2f Sat Aug 14 13:10:00 EDT 1993 Article: 21115 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!livia.acs.Virginia.EDU!jef2f From: jef2f@livia.acs.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Re: pollinating tomatoes? (Tomato Sex:-) Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: Security and Technology Planning, ITC/UVA References: <1993Aug12.172707.20653@adobe.com> <1993Aug12.153852.15560@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 22:00:30 GMT Lines: 12 Yes, tomatoes are "wind" pollinated, although I have seen bees and other hymenoptera on them(wasps bees etc. - nectar gatherers). It must be really dry where you are this year yes? Adam -- Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St. Harrisonburg,VA 22801 adamf@hopper.acs.virginia.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!zeus.tamu.edu!jzh2485 Sat Aug 14 13:10:32 EDT 1993 Article: 21064 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!zeus.tamu.edu!jzh2485 From: jzh2485@zeus.tamu.edu (HINTON, JOHNNY ZANE) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: UPDATE: moving grapes in July-Aug Date: 12 Aug 1993 08:23 CDT Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-ID: <12AUG199308230199@zeus.tamu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Well since no one ever reponded to my original query I thought I would update the net so we could all add one sample point to our data set of moving grapes in the worst of all possible times. I dug up two white table grapes and two red wine grapes near the end of August. First, I pruned them back to typical winter pruning specifications, next I dug up as much of a root ball as I could and shook out the loose soil never allowing the roots to dry out, then I immediately planted the grapes in 5 gallon pots in a well drained soil mix. Many weeks later they are all doing fine and have all leafed out and are actively growing. I will leave them in the buckets and transplant them to their permanant locations theis fall after leaf drop. John Z From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!koriel!west.West.Sun.COM!male.EBay.Sun.COM!watts!jwatts Sat Aug 14 13:12:43 EDT 1993 Article: 21191 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!koriel!west.West.Sun.COM!male.EBay.Sun.COM!watts!jwatts From: jwatts@watts.EBay.Sun.COM (Jim Watts) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: RE: Bees Date: 13 Aug 1993 20:40:06 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <24gu76$fpe@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Reply-To: jwatts@watts.EBay.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: watts.ebay.sun.com What you have here is a underground hive a=of meat bees. In my discussions with other gardeners these pests have no useful purpose. They eat carrion and waste products. They do not pollinate plants. They have hives in burrows in the ground. They will attack anyone who bothers their hive. If you kill one and smear it on you they leave a scent on you that the other bees home in on. You will get multiple stings if you don't leave post haste. Hornets kill them and eat them. My advice is to drown or kill the nest by a method acceptable to you (ie poison or water applied in copious amounts and long durations). Good Luck, Jim From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!hlm Sat Aug 14 13:18:44 EDT 1993 Article: 21208 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!hlm From: hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com (Heather Magill) Subject: jicama my experiences so far Message-ID: <1993Aug13.173000.24283@phx.mcd.mot.com> Summary: not producing, need help Sender: news@phx.mcd.mot.com Nntp-Posting-Host: cretan.phx.mcd.mot.com Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az. Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1993 17:30:00 GMT Lines: 34 Hi all! Well its fall in Phoenix, Arizona and that means the whitefly invasion has come. In addition to those little pests it seems a gopher has taken to my garden and has destroyed one tomato plant and one of my jicama plants. Between the whiteflies and the gopher I was worried that I wasn't going to get any jicama (whiteflies seem to love jicama followed soon after by sugar eating ants) so I dug one up. Much to my dismay there was no root bulb! I planted them in March or April which seems to meet most of their need of 180 days of warmth so I would expect to get at least a little tiny bulb but no luck :-( It also didn't product the humungous vines that I read about in previous postings. The vines only got about 2 ft long. I did fertilize it occasionally with fish emulsion and it seemed to do better when I put down some straw mulch for retaining moisture. Anyone have better luck? Suggestions I could try for next year or things I could do to my remaining plant (on the assumption the gopher leaves it alone)? Thanks in advance, Heather. -- You know, with 5 stray cats and 3 house cats you'd think they would do something about that gopher. They are about as effective as the coke bottles I put in the ground with the hope the noise of the wind blowing over the openings would drive the gopher off (as recommended by "Bugs, Slugs and Other Thugs"). Boy I feel stupid everytime someone asks, "what's the coke bottles for?". And no its not snowing, that's whiteflies ! :-( -- hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Sat Aug 14 13:21:40 EDT 1993 Article: 21131 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Botanical hits (was will someone murder the neighbor) Message-ID: <1993Aug12.201717.15579@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 12 Aug 93 20:17:17 -0600 References: Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 27 In article , ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson) writes: >>In a previous article, jk1n+@andrew.cmu.edu (James Michael Kocher) says: >>>I suggested to Steve that he make a nice Monkshood/Digitalis/Yew/Deadly >>>Nightshade salad to offer to the apologetic neighbor. Be creative, and >>>use plants to your best advantage! > > The kids who broke off my sunflowers haven't come back to apologize, > and I want to hire a hitman! Honestly, seing my sunflowers in pieces > all over the lawn, made me cry. I was going to dry them and feed them > to the birds. Well, if you don't like the poison ivy extract idea, there are plants that have unpleasant effects RIGHT NOW! Lessee: Rugosa roses (prickles) Raspberries, blackberries, gooseberries (prickles) Fremontodendron (itchy hairs) Mucuna (VERY itchy hairs) Nettles (stinging hairs) Juniperus virginiana (sharp needles and pretty good allergen) Prickly ash (Xanthoxylum odoratum) (stinks AND sticks you) Anyone else care to play???? ;-) Kay From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!dewey.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Thu Aug 19 06:59:16 EDT 1993 Article: 21383 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!dewey.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: leander@dewey.cc.utexas.edu (James Daniel) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: epazote Date: 18 Aug 1993 00:40:50 -0500 Organization: The University of Texas - Austin Lines: 11 Message-ID: <24sfd2$qdp@dewey.cc.utexas.edu> References: <1993Aug16.121413.26924@hemlock.cray.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dewey.cc.utexas.edu Epazote, like many herbs, should be harvested when it has plenty of leaves and before it blooms. The flavor is different if you let it bloom; besides, by not letting one's herb plants bloom, one prolongs their producing life a bit. If you have enough time before first frost to get more leaves off the plant, just trim 2/3 of the plant's height off. Otherwise you may as well harvest the whole plant. The young (non-tough) leaves are used in cooking, but I suppose older leaves would work too. Hope this helps. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Aug 19 06:59:36 EDT 1993 Article: 21297 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Fertilizer FAQ Message-ID: <1993Aug16.153540.15669@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 16 Aug 93 15:35:39 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 416 >From the sunsite.unc.edu archives (choose sunsite archives, then sustainable agriculture, and finally rec.gardens). ___________________ FERTILIZER FAQL Initial writing by Kay Klier, using materials from a wide variety of sources. Primarily written from the point of view of NPK. Needs work on using green manures and cover crops as nutrient sources, since I mainly use them to add organic matter. CONTENTS: I. Fertilizer overview II. Plant nutrients III. What is a complete formula for plants? IV. The numbers on the fertilizer sack V. Calculating amounts of fertilizer to apply VI. When to fertilize VII. Methods of application A. Commercial formulations 1. Dry 2. Soluble B. Natural forms VIII. Fertilizers vs. soil amendments IX. Approximate analyses of commonly available natural fertilizers and soil amendments A. Seed meals B. Manures C. Animal byproducts D. Stem and leaf products E. Miscellaneous organics F. Miscellaneous inorganics X. Experiences with various formulations A. Osmocote B. Peter's soluble general purpose C. Granular commercial fertilizers D. "Weed and feed" lawn fertilizers E. "Lawn fertilizers" F. Houseplant formulations I. FERTILIZER OVERVIEW Fertilizers are materials that contain appreciable amounts of plant nutrients. Probably the most familiar categories of fertilizer are "chemical" vs. "organic": these could better be termed synthetic vs. natural. The synthetic fertilizers consist almost entirely of nitrogen, potassium and phosphorus (the three nutrients most likely to be in short enough supply to limit growth), in forms that are readily utilized by plants. In contrast, the natural fertilizers are more likely to have significant amounts of micronutrients (trace minerals) and the macronutrients are likely to be in forms that are not as readily absorbed-- they are in forms that must first be metabolized by soil microorganisms before they are available to plants. There may also be significant bulk: useful for tilth improvement. Thus the synthetic fertilizers are "fast", while the natural fertilizers tend to be more "time release". Some people feel that synthetic fertilizers "poison" the soil, and will not use them in any instance; others feel that synthetics are perfectly acceptable if used properly. Synthetic fertilizers can be one of the major sources of groundwater pollution (as can runoff from manure piles): the nitrogen is in such a soluble form that it tends to leach from the point of application. Overfertilization of natural bodies of water tends to lead to algal blooms and subsequent death of fish from oxygen depletion. High nitrate levels in drinking water can cause reduction in oxygen carrying capacity in red blood cells. Reduced oxygen levels can cause retardation in young children and fetuses. If you apply a highly soluble fertilizer, please use it thoughtfully. II. PLANT NUTRIENTS Besides carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, the essential minerals for most plants are: Chemical Element Symbol Available form: MACRO Nitrogen N NH4+, NO3- Phosphorus P HPO4-, H2PO4- Potassium K K+ SECONDARY Sulfur S SO4-- Calcium Ca Ca++ Magnesium Mg Mg++ MICRONUTRIENTS Iron Fe Fe++, Fe+++ Manganese Mn Mn++ Boron B H2BO3 Copper Cu Cu++ Zinc Zn Zn++ Molybdenum Mo MoO4-- Chlorine Cl Cl- It is relatively rare for soils to be deficient in copper, zinc, molybdenum or chlorine. If needed, the micronutrients plus magnesium are often applied as a chelated mixture. Sequestrene is a common US brand. III. WHAT IS A COMPLETE FORMULA FOR PLANTS? Different plants require different proportions of nutrients, but you can get some idea of the general requirements by looking at one of the commonly used research formulations: Knop's solution with Nitsch's micronutrients. This will support hydroponic growth: (soil-less culture) IV. NUMBERS ON THE FERTILIZER SACK The three numbers on a commercial fertilizer bag are in the order NPK: nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium (=kalium). The actual numbers are percentages: 20-20-20 fertilizer is 20% (by weight) nitrogen, 20% phosphorus, 20% potassium. When choosing a fertilizer formulation, choose a balanced fertilizer for most purposes, one in which the three numbers are approximately equal. If you wish to favor growth of leaves over flowers (for instance for a leafy vegetable crop, or a lawn, choose a fertilizer with a higher first number; for flowers or fruits, choose a higher middle number, for better root growth, choose a higher last number. NPK: leaves: flowers: roots V. CALCULATING AMOUNTS TO APPLY Typically, a soil test will tell you that X pounds per thousand square feet will be required for a certain level of productivity (those who are fortunate enough to think metric can use appropriate units). As an example, consider someone who has just gotten a recommendation to apply 3 lbs of N per thousand square feet, in a divided (spring and fall) application. Our hapless homeowners wish to get their money's worth from the new mower he purchased for their 20,000 sq ft bluegrass lawn. To determine how many square feet a bag of fertilizer will cover at 1 lb per 1000 sq ft, multiply the weight of the bag by the percentage nitrogen on the label, then multiply by 1000. Assume this 30-1-1 fertilizer is sold in 40 lb sacks. One bag will cover 40 * .30 * 1000 = 12,000 sq ft at that rate.. But since we want 3 lbs N per 1000 sq ft, one sack will cover 4,000 sq ft, and our homeowners will buy 5 sacks of fertilizer (20,000sq ft/(4,000 sq ft/sack)) and use 3 sacks in the spring and 2 in the fall... VI. WHEN TO FERTILIZE Quickly absorbed fertilizers should be applied only when a plant is about to begin a growth spurt, or during heavy growth. You should not fertilize heavily just before a plant will be going into dormancy (this may keep the plant from "hardening off" properly, and can result in winter damage. If you choose to use "high management" on a plant (heavy fertilization), you should also count on increasing water to the plant. If you anticipate major insect damage (perhaps a hatch of grasshoppers), decrease fertilization: tender plant tissues are more subject to damage than tissues that grew more slowly. In general, a _slightly_ "hungry" plant is more resistant to pests and diseases than an overfed one. Overfeeding can also result in salts building up in the soil. The salt build-up decreases the water potential of the soil, and can actually reach the point that a plant cannot extract enough water from a moist but salinized soil. These soils must be "cured" by leaching with tremendous amounts of water. Although a "proper" fertilization regime would include soil and plant analyses, most of us guesstimate fertilizer requirements. A cautious approach to guesstimation is to observe the plants for nutrient deficiency symptoms (you'll need to compare to photos often found in basic agronomy, horticulture or botany texts). If any are suspected, apply a weak fertilizer and observe for increased growth. If this is observed, you can repeat the application. Stop as soon as any signs of overfertilization (weak, floppy growth, all leaves and no flowers, salt burned leaves) are observed. Slow release fertilizers can be applied at almost any time, and there is relatively little danger of "burning" the plants. Notable exceptions are urine or fresh manures, which can be very high N. Composted manures are less "lively". VII. METHODS OF APPLICATION A. COMMERCIAL FORMULATIONS 1. DRY Basic forms of commercial fertilizer include dry granular, slow release (e.g. Osmocote (tm)), and soluble. Granular fertilizers are usually broadcast or used as a side dressing (dug into a trench near the plants), slow release fertilizers are often used for high-value crops like greenhouse plants and as "starters" when planting trees or shrubs. Two additional forms of dry fertilizer are available: fertilizer "spikes" meant to be hammered into the soil near trees or shrubs, or inserted into soil of potted plants, and solid pellets meant for use in such devices as the Ross Root Feeder (tm). 2. SOLUBLE Soluble fertilizers (Peters is a popular US brand) were once nearly confined to greenhouse use, but are now becoming popular for foliar fertilization of lawns and bedding plants. These are usually applied diluted in large quantities of water, using a hose-end sprayer or proportioning device (e.g. Hoze-on proportioner (tm)). They may also be injected directly into irrigation systems. Because these soluble fertilizers are readily available to plants, most growers have found that using weaker solutions more often than label recommendations give superior results. A typical schedule might be 20-25% of the recommended strength applied at weekly intervals rather than the suggested monthly intervals. Growers of some specialty plants have reported problems with colored soluble fertilizers (a dye is added so the person who is watering can see if fertilizer or plain water is coming from the hose). Some manufacturers are now producing soluble products without the tracker dye. Crops often reported affected by the dye include ferns, lower plants and orchids. Highly soluble fertilizers like these can pollute groundwater unless carefully applied. B. NATURAL FERTILIZERS Because these generally have lower analyses than commercial fertilizers, generally much larger quantities are applied. This has the advantage of improving soil tilth by adding organic matter, and these generally require no additional micronutrient correction. You can also get a fair amount of exercise spreading and digging in a natural fertilizer. Another common way to use these fertilizers is as a "tea", an infusion of (for instance) manure in water. Water is added to a container of manure, the contents stirred and allowed to settle, then the water siphoned off for use, often on potted plants. Additional water can be added and the process repeated. <<>> VIII. FERTILITIES VS. SOIL AMENDMENTS Natural fertilizers are often used not just for their nutritive value, but to improve soil tilth. Commercial fertilizers are generally not useful for tilth improvement. However, other soil amendments, like gypsum or agricultural lime, affect the availability of soil nutrients by their effect on soil pH. IX. APPROXIMATE ANALYSES OF COMMONLY AVAILABLE NATURAL FERTILIZERS AND SOIL AMENDMENTS. N P K comments A. SEED MEALS Alfalfa meal 2.4 0.2 2.1 Coffee grounds 2 0.3 0.2 acidic; add lime; caffeine residues may inhibit germination Cottonseed meal 6 2 1 cotton is a high pesticide crop Soybean meal 7 0.5 2.3 B. MANURES Bat guano (fresh) 10 3 1 Bat guano (subfossil) 2 8 0 Chicken manure (dry) 4 4 2 Cow manure (dry) 2 2.3 2.4 compost or apply in fall Horse manure 1.7 0.7 1.8 Pig manure (dry) 2 1.8 1.8 neighbors downwind will complain Sheep manure (dry) 4 1.4 3.5 C. ANIMAL BYPRODUCTS Blood meal 10 0 0 Bone meal 3 12 0-0.5 1 yr P availability Bone meal (steamed) 1 11 0 Crab meal (shrimp m., seafood m.) 4 3 0.5 Eggshell 1.2 0.4 0.1 Feather meal 11 0 0 Fish emulsion 4 1 1 5% sulfur Fish meal 5-11 3-6 0-3 may attract cats and other carnivores Horn & hoof meal 12-14 2 0 1 year N availability Worm castings 0.5 0.5 0.3 D. STEM AND LEAF PRODUCTS Bluegrass hay 1.8 0.6 1.8 Corn stover (dry) 1.2 0.4 1.6 Corn stover (green) 0.3 0.1 0.3 Cowpeas (dry) 3.1 0.6 2.3 Cowpeas (green) 0.4 0.1 0.4 Fescue hay 2.1 0.7 2.4 Grass clippings (green)0.5 0.2 0.5 Hairy vetch 2.8 0.8 2.3 Lespedeza hay 2.4 0.8 2.3 Oak leaves 0.8 9.4 0.1 Orchard grass hay 2.3 0.7 2.8 Red Clover hay 2.8 0.6 2.3 Sweet clover hay 2.2 0.6 2.2 Timothy hay 1.8 0.7 2.8 Wheat bran 2.6 2.9 1.6 Wheat straw 0.7 0.2 1.2 White clover (green) 0.5 0.2 0.3 E. MISCELLANEOUS ORGANIC Apple pomace 0.2 0 0.2 Compost (commercial) 1 1 1 Compost (homemade, high nutrients) 4 4 4 Compost (homemade, low nutrient) 0.5 0.5 0.5 Kelp meal 1-1.5 0-0.5 1-2.5 Milorganite (Milwaukee sewage sludge) 6 4 0 Oyster shell 0 0 0 31-36% calcium + trace minerals Sawdust 0.2 0 0.2 uses lots of N as it rots Sewage sludge, Iowa, average of 40 municipalities: very wide ranges, depending on source 2.77 1.41 0 F. MISCELLANEOUS INORGANICS Ammonium nitrate 33 0 0 soil acidifier Ammonium sulfate 21 0 0 strong acidifier Aragonite 0 0 0 96% calcium carbonate Borax 0 0 0 10% boron Calcitic limestone 0 0 0 65-80% calcium carbonate Colloidal phosphate 0 2 2 Dolomitic limestone 0 0 0 51% Calcium carbonate, 40% magnesium carbonate Epsom salts 0 0 0 10% magnesium, 13% sulfur Granite meal 0 4 0 67% silica, 19 trace minerals Greensand 0 1.5 6.1 32 trace minerals + 10 year release K Gypsum 0 0 0 22% calcium, 17% sulfur Muriate of potash: see potassium chloride Potassium chloride 0 0 60 commonly used in commercial fertilizers Potassium nitrate 13 0 44 basifier (makes soil more alkaline) Rock phosphate 0 3 0 32% total P, 32% Ca, 11 trace minerals Soft phosphate 0 18 0 2-3 yr P availability Superphosphate 0 20 0 12% sulfur Sulfur elemental or flowers of sulfur 0 0 0 99% sulfur; soil acidifier. Treble superphosphate 0 45 0 Urea 45 0 0 highest available N in granular form X. EXPERIENCES WITH VARIOUS FORMULATIONS A. Osmocote One midwestern botanist with a tendency to forget to fertilize greenhouse plants has had good results with osmocote; others have reported poor results with other crops and better management. B. Peter's soluble general purpose Useful for most greenhouse crops, general bedding crops. Too high in nitrogen for good vegetable crops. Blue tracking dye is suspected in difficulties with orchids, ferns and lower plants. Uncolored forms available. Easy to handle. May require supplementation with micronutrients in greenhouse soils. C. Granular commercial fertilizers. Generally cheap and convenient; general purpose and easy to keep on hand. Buy by cost per pound of nutrients: 10 lbs of 15-15-15 at $1.30 is a better deal than 10 lbs of 10-10-10 at $1.00. Broken sacks of dry granulars can often be purchased cheaply at farm supply outlets. 5-10-5 is a typical "tomato" or "flowering houseplant" formulation. 10-10-10 or similar near-equal number formulation is an all-purpose balanced fertilizer. D. "Weed and feed" lawn fertilizers Combination herbicides and high nitrogen formulations. Consensus of the net seems to be that these are unneeded and polluting; a more balanced lawn fertilizer and perhaps spot applications of a selected herbicide (or a dandelion digger!) is a better choice for lawn, people and environment. E. "Lawn fertilizers" Formulations like 43-1-1 encourage leaf growth at the expense of root growth. A more balanced fertilizer is better if clippings are removed. If clippings are allowed to rot in place, or returned to the lawn as compost, potassium and phosphorus are reclaimed, so a better choice would be a fertilizer in the vicinity of 20-5-5. High N fertilizers can be applied just a few weeks before a special occasion requiring a deep green lawn without harm if the lawn is basically healthy. F. Houseplant formulations Specialty houseplant formulations are common and expensive; a soluble 10-10-10 or similar balanced fertilizer promotes good growth of most plants; plants grown for their flowers may benefit from 10-15-10 or similar formulations. 30-10-10 is a common formulation for epiphytic orchids growing in pots. In general, do not fertilize a newly potted plant or one that is about to enter dormancy. Resume fertilization when new growth starts. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Thu Aug 19 07:00:53 EDT 1993 Article: 21319 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: martin.zurn@cen.jrc.it (Martin Zurn) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Summary: Kiwi Fruit Plants Date: 17 Aug 1993 06:56:09 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 21 Sender: daemon@cs.utexas.edu Message-ID: <9308171155.AA01987@dac.ise.jrc.it> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu Hi folks: Thanks a lot for all the positive inputs. As a reference about kiwi plants the following article was suggested. Hardy Kiwis by Lee Reich Horticulture, The magazine of American Gardening Volume LXXI, number 7, Aug/Sept 1993, page 60+ The right kind of pruning seems to be the secret (or one of the secrets). Generally, moderate pruning in the dormant period seems to be ok for fruitful growth. However, in my article I asked how to limit excessive growth. This might be achieved via a) Pruning in summer b) Pruning of the roots -- Martin A. Zurn (Internet: martin.zurn@jrc.it) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!munnari.oz.au!hp9000.csc.cuhk.hk!hkuxb.hku.hk!hkuxa.hku.hk!h8600484 Thu Aug 19 07:01:22 EDT 1993 Article: 21318 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!munnari.oz.au!hp9000.csc.cuhk.hk!hkuxb.hku.hk!hkuxa.hku.hk!h8600484 From: h8600484@hkuxa.hku.hk (Klaus S. Lam) Subject: [Q] Orchid Mailing List Message-ID: Sender: usenet@hkuxb.hku.hk (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: hkuxa.hku.hk Organization: The University of Hong Kong X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 06:28:06 GMT Lines: 10 Can anyone provide the detail of the orchid mailing list orchids@scuacc.scu.edu I saw it in a posting about 2 weeks ago and I would like to know how can I subscribe to it. Thanks. -Klaus From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!rhalgren Thu Aug 19 07:01:34 EDT 1993 Article: 21364 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!rhalgren From: rhalgren@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Robert Halgren) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: [Q] Orchid Mailing List Date: 17 Aug 1993 22:11:06 GMT Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston IL Lines: 24 Message-ID: <24rl1q$cts@news.acns.nwu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: unseen1.acns.nwu.edu In article h8600484@hkuxa.hku.hk (Klaus S. Lam) writes: >Can anyone provide the detail of the orchid mailing list > > orchids@scuacc.scu.edu > >I saw it in a posting about 2 weeks ago and I would like >to know how can I subscribe to it. > >Thanks. > >-Klaus Details. If you wish to subsribe to the orchid mailing list do the following. Mail to MAILSERV@SCUACC.SCU.EDU a message consisting of the following phrase: SUBSCRIBE ORCHIDS (no period, no nothing). No need for subjects, signatures, thanks, apologies or whatever, the server will ignore them or send you strange error messages. This should, in theory, put you on a pretty neat mailing list (well, I enjoy it). If I recall correctly the mailserver sends you some initial introductory messages that explain the whole thing a bit better, you might want to save those (I deleted mine, and have regretted it several times since). Hope to see you there. Rob Halgren From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Aug 19 07:05:51 EDT 1993 Article: 21411 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: How to get to FAQ's Message-ID: <1993Aug18.164433.15732@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 18 Aug 93 16:44:33 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 45 This is a post by Larry London earlier this summer. Reposted without his permission, and with a couple of annotations.... Kay I don't know that any FAQ's have been prepared for distribution* but I have archived many files on various r.f.h subjects and hundreds of articles in the newsgroup (since this Spring I've been archiving all articles). They might provide plenty of material for FAQs. *There are also some draft FAQ's, labeled as such... many should be edited further before we send them to news.answers or similar venues. -- kk Access: anonymous ftp: ftp sunsite.unc.edu cd pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture cd newsgroup.archives/rec.food.historic GOPHER (sunSITE GOPHER): telnet sunsite.unc.edu Login: gopher Enter term type: vt100 go to sunsite archives sustainable agriculture information browse sustainable agriculture information sustainable agriculture newsgroup.archives rec.food.historic (rec.food.sourdough and others are there also) FTPMAIL is available at sunSITE also [My sysadmin recently made a gopher available to us, and from here, I just type gopher at the systems prompt, then follow the menus (in my case, "other gophers" then "North America" then "US" then "North Carolina", then the Chapel Hill gopher listed as ogphre site archives.) -- kk] If you need help e-mail me at: london@sunSITE.unc.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Aug 19 07:05:58 EDT 1993 Article: 21413 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Bulb Catalogs -- FAQ Message-ID: <1993Aug18.165852.15735@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 18 Aug 93 16:58:52 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 407 BULB CATALOGS FOR NORTH AMERICAN GROWERS revision of 19 July, 1993 "One makes a mental note, or even a written note, and then the season changes and one forgets what one meant at the time. One has written 'Plant something yellow near the yellow tulips' or "Plant something tall behind the lupins," and then autumn comes and plants have died down, and one scratches one's head trying to remember what on earth one meant by that." --- Vita Sackville-West BULBS: Included in this list are purveyors of bulbs, corms and tubers, excluding Dahlia and Iris specialists. Among the most immediately rewarding, these "sure-fire flowers" are ordered in late summer or early fall for spring bloom, in early spring for summer and fall bloom. There are often significant discounts for ordering by mid-August for fall delivery. If you have someone with an absolutely brown thumb, give them a bulb of _Colchicum autumnale_, a fall-flowering species that will bloom sitting on a bookshelf, producing a number of lavender-pink trumpet flowers from a naked bulb. Planted outdoors after bloom, it will produce flowers autumn after autumn. Another welcome gift from a gardener to almost any poor soul in the [in]temperate zone winter is a pot of bulbs for forcing. Most catalogs list cultivars especially suitable for forcing. ABBREVIATIONS: Cat -- catalog cv -- cultivar (=variety) ? -- item of which I am unsure. "refundable" means catalog price is at least partially credited to first order (may be a minimum order for such credit) CONSERVATION NOTE Dutch bulb growers/importers have agreed to label all *wild-collected* bulbs, corms and tubers by 1993 (most will do it this year). US growers have NOT agreed to do this, and in 1991 imported more than a million bulbs and corms (mostly snowdrops and cyclamens) stripped from their native habitat in Turkey. US growers also sell wild-collected native plants (esp. pink ladyslipper orchid, _Cypripedium acaule_, and many native ferns). In general, if there is a cultivar name ('President Kennedy' tulip or 'Blue Pearl' hyacinth), you can assume these are grown in cultivation. Those who enjoy growing "unimproved" species have to trust the source if they care about population destruction. Some unscrupulous "growers" strip wild populations, park them in beds over the winter and then sell these "cultivated" plants in the spring. CAVEAT EMPTOR. _Herbertia_ is an international bulb journal on bulb identification and culture. PO Bos 5355 Pasadena, CA 91107- 0355 >>> NOTE: Mail to the address above is being returned. Will let you know the story when I find out. --kk Should you decide to plant several hundred bulbs, you may wish to invest in a long-handled bulb planter (also useful for perennials), or an auger bit for an electric drill. One such auger is the Daffodrill, PO Box 248, Salt Point, NY 127578 Bob Batson and Jim Bishop contributed most of the addresses and remarks; others from Kay Klier. Compilers of this list make no warranties about the firms listed herein. ***** Please send all new addresses, changes, ***** ****** remarks and corrections to Kay Klier ***** ***** (in%"klier@iscsvax.uni.edu") ***** ---------------------- CANADIAN FIRMS CA Cruickshank,Inc 1015 Mount Pleasant Road Toronto, Ontario Canada M4P 2M1 Cat $2 One of the largest lists in N Am. Strongest in tulips, scilla, iris, crocus, hyacinth, narcissus; fall catalog features much stuff from Van Tubergen of Holland (nice stuff!) Gardenimport,Inc PO Box 760 Thornhill, Ontario, Canada L3T 4A5 Cat $4 English perennials, lilacs, bulbs, seeds; N. Am. agents of Suttons Seeds of Great Britain; some European cvs WH Perron 515 Labelle Boulevard Chomeday laval Quebec H7V 2T3 Canada Cat $? US FIRMS Bakker of Holland US Reservation Center Louisiana, MO 63353-0050 Cat $0? Dutch bulbs The Banana Tree 715 Northampton St Easton, PA 18042 Cat $3 tropical bulbs and seeds B & D Lilies 330 P Street Port Townsend, WA 98368 Cat $? Lily specialist? BioQuest International PO Box 5752 Santa Barbara, CA 93108. (805) 969-4072 (Dr. Richard Doutt); Cat $2 South African bulbs especially. bulbs native to South Africa Bluebell Lilies 1432 Manor Lane Blue Bell, PA 19422 Cat $? Lily specialist Bonnie Brae Gardens 1105 SE Christensen Road Corbett, OR 97019 Cat $0 daffodil specialist Breck's 6523 N Galena Rd Peoria, IL 61632 Cat $0 basic range of species W. Atlee Burpee & Co. 300 Park Ave Warminster, PA 18974 Cat $0 good general catalog for beginners; one of the oldest and best known US seed companies Caladium World PO Drawer 629 Sebring, FL 33871 Cat $0 caladium specialist Cascade Daffodils 1790 Richard Circle St Paul, MN 55118 Cat $1 daffodil specialist Daffodil Mart The Heaths Rt 3, Box 794 Gloucester, VA 23061 Cat $1; Van Tubergen of Holland wholesale cat $5 Hundreds of daffodil cvs; minimum order from Van Tubergen catalog is 100 bullbs, but VT is said to have one of the broadest lists of Dutch grown bulbs. Peter De Jager Bulb Co. PO Box 2010 South Hamilton, MA 01982 Cat $? Dutch Gardens,Inc PO Box 200 Adelphia, NJ 07710 908 780-2713; fax 908 708-7720 Cat $0 Good selection of basic Holland bulbs; good prices, esp in quantity (group order program esp.). Excellent color catalog with pictures of all cvs. Fairyland Begonia and Lily Garden 1100 Griffith Road McKinleyville, CA 95521 Cat $0.50, refundable hybrid oriental and asiatic lilies Gaybird Nurseries PO Box 42 Wawanesa, Manitoba Canada R0K 2GO Cat $? Lily specialist Gladside Gardens 61 Main St Northfield, MA 01360. List $1 gladiolas, dahlias, cannas, unusual bulbs Holland Bulb Farms PO Box 127 Westwood, NJ 07676 Cat $0 Dutch bulb importer Kelly's Plant World 10266 E Princeton Sanger, CA 93657. Price list $1, refundable cannas and other summer bulbs Kent Lilies 2009 Edgewood Rd NE Grand Rapids, MI 49505 Cat $? lily specialist Kester's Wild Game Food Nurseries PO Box 516 Omro, WI 54963 Cat $2 Specialist in species favored for food and cover by game animals Louisiana Nursery Route 7, Box 43 Opelousas, LA 70570 Cat $3 (daylilies, LA irises); $5 (magnolias, trees, shrubs, vines); $3 (crinums & bulbs); refundable McClure & Zimmerman 108 W Winnebago PO Box 368 Friesland, WI 53935 Cat $0 Excellent list of bulbs, esp. species and uncommon cultivars; also uncommon species. McFayden Seed Co. 30 9th St, Box 1800 Brandon, MB Canada R7A 6N4 Cat $? Messelaar Bulb Co. PO Box 269 Ipswich, MA 01938 Cat $0 good cvs of commonly available species Michigan Bulb Co. 1950 Waldorf NW; Grand Rapids, MI 49550 Cat $0 Quoth a rec.gardener: "Everybody buys from here ONCE". Cheap prices, cheap plants. Caveat emptor. Mileager's Gardens 4838 Douglas Avenue Racine, WI 53402-2498 800 669-9956 Cat $? Grant Mitsch Novelty Daffodils PO Box 218 Hubbard, OR 97032 Cat $3 refundable daffodil specialist/breeder; many cvs available here only Oakwood Daffodils 2330 W Bertrand Rd Niles, MI 49120 Cat $? Pinetree Garden Seeds RR 1, Box 397 New Gloucester, ME 04260 Cat $0 Good seeds (many op) in small packets at very reasonable prices; small selection of bulbs (many row-run or smallish); pretty good book and tool selection. Pleasant Valley Glads PO Box 494 Agawam, MA 01001 Cat $0 gladiolus, dahlia specialist Quality Dutch Bulbs PO Box 225 Hillsdale, NJ 07642 Cat $? Rex Bulb Farms PO Box 774 2568 Washington St Port Townsend, WA 98368 Cat $1 200+ cv hybrid and species lilies Royal Gardens Box 588 Farmingdale, NJ 07727 Cat $0 Nicely illustrated catalog of common species John Scheepers,Inc PO Box 700 Bantam, CT 06750 203 567-0838 Cat $0 Nice range of bulbs; probably of more interest to specialists. Well-established firm with exhibition size bulbs Smith and Hawken Bulb Book 25 Corte Madera Mill Valley, CA 94941 415 383-2000 Cat $0 Ask for "Wilma Kay" for advice. No seeds, but bulbs, good tools, garden furbelows. Mostly expensive stuff for trendy gardeners, but they do have sturdy English tools. Strahm's Lilies PO Box 226 Harbor, OR 97415 Cat $0.50 Oriental lily specialist Trinidad Bay Bulb Co. (1992): PO Box 974 Trinidad, CA 95570 Cat $? Lily specialist TyTy Plantation Box 159 TyTy, GA 31795 Cat $0 Cannas, crinums and other bulbs esp. for S US gardens Van Bourgondien & Sons Inc PO Box A245 Farmingdale Rd Babylon, NY 11702 Cat $0 Mixed reports on quality Mary Mattison Van Schalk Box 181 Cavendish, VT 05142 Cat $1 established importer of Dutch bulbs Van Tubergen of Holland See CA Cruickshank and Daffodil Mart for N Am distributors. Veldheer Tulip Gardens 12755 Quincy St Holland, MI 49424 Cat $? Mary Walker Bulb Co. Box 256 Omega, GA 31775 Cat $? specialist in southern US adapted bulbs Wayside Gardens Co. 1 Garden Lane Hodges, SC 29695 Cat $0 Pricy, but interesting and well illustrated color catalogs. White Flower Farm Rt 63 Litchfield, CT 06759-0050 800 888-7756 Cat $0 Informative catalogs you may wish to keep for reference. Carries several strains of long-lived tulips (their "perennial tulips") Kay Klier in%"klier@iscsvax.uni.edu" From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Aug 19 07:06:05 EDT 1993 Article: 21414 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Bulb forcing FAQ Message-ID: <1993Aug18.170307.15737@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 18 Aug 93 17:03:07 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 616 FORCING BULBS FOR WINTER BLOOM 1st draft, 2 October 1992 "Do you think 200 paperwhites are enough? I'm giving a few pots for Christmas presents, and I haven't got enough refrigerator space to do that many tulips..." --3rd year bulb-forcer, who just discovered wholesale catalogs A. Why force bulbs? B. Bulbs that need no prechilling C. How to force bulbs 1. Equipment and supplies 2. Planting the bulbs 3. Chilling period 4. "Bringing them on" 5. Aftercare D. Species and cultivars suitable for forcing, and cultural remarks A. Why force bulbs? To (in)temperate zone gardeners, winter can be those 8 months before there's something blooming outside again. About mid-January, seed catalogs pall, and snow piles up, and the gardeners get a bit testy. There are several ways of coping with the winter-garden blues. n Pruning the apple orchard is productive, but a bit chilly. Revamping the entire garden on paper, adding drystone walls, subterranean irrigation, a new pond and small arboretum is exciting, but it's a bit expensive to actually do the work and guilt-inducing to not do the work... Or, with a bit of planning, you can beat the winter doldrums and have spring flowers all winter, with modest space and equipment requirements. Because flower buds are already formed in dormant bulbs, if you buy bulbs from a reputable supplier, you are almost guaranteed success. This FAQ was prepared by Kay Klier, and reflects her experiences and prejudices. B. Bulbs that need no prechilling The simplest bulbs to "force" (bring into out-of-season bloom) are species that require no prechilling. These include _Hippeastrum_ (amaryllis), _Narcissus tazetta_ (paperwhite narcissus), and _Colchicum autumnale_ which will bloom in the fall just sitting on a shelf. Cultural instructions are in the list below. C. How to force bulbs 1. Equipment and supplies Equipment needs are fairly minimal: a sunny, cool window for bringing the bulbs to flower, pots and ordinary potting soil for growing, and a refrigerator, coldframe, or a box stuffed with leaves-- something to maintain the pots at about 40oF. Choice of bulbs is critical: some species and cultivars force better than others, and larger bulbs give a better show than smaller bulbs of the same cultivar. 2. Planting the bulbs Some authors advocate special "bulb fiber" for forcing, or specially shaped glasses to allow bulbs to be rooted in water. Others specify a mixture of pebbles and charcoal, glass marbles, or similar non-absorbent rooting media. My experience with bulb fiber is that it is good, but expensive. The other media are prone to a number of ills, including tipping, rot, and malodors. However, most professional growers use a simple, well-drained, standard potting soil in an ordinary clay or plastic pot with drain holes. This offers a heavy enough base that top growth won't flip the pot. If available, "bulb pans" or "azalea pans" (pots that are very squat or sort-of-squat in comparison to the standard flower pot shape) can be used; these require less soil and are a bit more aesthetic to some eyes. Prepare the pot as if you were potting a house plant. New clay pots should be soaked in plain water for 24 hours before use*. Old clay or plastic pots should be scrubbed, disinfected and dried** before re-use. Crock the pot (put broken overlapping pot shards into the pot) to prevent soil running out the drain holes. Add enough soil so that the tips of the bulbs set on this base are about 2" (5 cm) below the rim. Place the bulbs on this base, one cultivar per pot, with the bulbs just barely separated. Put as many bulbs in as will fit. Continue filling the pot with soil to about 3/4" (2 cm) below the rim. Tag with cultivar and date. Place filled pot in water and allow the soil to soak up from the bottom; drain for 12 hours, then placed into the chilling chamber. Don't forget to write some "check on it dates" on the calendar! * New clay pots can "steal" water from roots as the clay molecules rehydrate from firing. ** Scrub mineral deposits and old soil and algal crusts from pots with a stiff-bristled brush. Soak clean pots in 10% sodium or calcium hypochlorite solution (chlorine bleach) diluted to 10% of commercial strength for an hour. Drain, rinse in clean water, and air dry until no trace of chlorine smell remains. It is possible to use undrained containers for bulb forcing, but I do not recommend this until you've mastered forcing at least a few species in ordinary pots-- watering is infinitely trickier in undrained pots. Instead choose a growing pot that will slip into the undrained display container. 3. Chilling period Place the pots in a cool chamber: something with a temperature that can be maintained at 35-40oF. This can be a refrigerator (beware, though, ethylene gas from ripening fruit, esp. apples, can cause flowers to abort), a cold basement or root cellar, a cold frame, or an outdoor trench filled with insulating but non-freezing materials such as straw over a gravel base. A cardboard box stuffed with straw and placed on insulating materials like a couple of inches of styrofoam will provide adequate temperature control in an unheated garage in USDA zones 4 or 5. You will want to be able to check on the pots about once a month. Arrange the pots in the chilling chamber, and remember to give them a drink every month or so. Actual length of the chilling period will depend on planting date and cultivar. In general, pots are ready to be brought on (grown) when the root system is well developed (go ahead, turn out a pot and peek!) and the new shoots are an inch or so high. 4. "Bringing them on" Abnormally high temperatures (for spring bulbs) will lead to loose, floppy growth, and perhaps flower abortion (esp in Iris). 50-55oF is an good growing temperature for most hardy spring bulbs, often obtainable in a bright windowsill, or in a basement under fluorescent light. Put new pots in half-bright light for a couple of days until the shoots green up, then move to a strongly lit cool area to keep growth compact. In general, do not fertilize (if you must, no N-- it makes floppy leaves!). You may also need to do a certain amount of discreet staking: I use chopsticks and a variety of shades of green embroidery floss. 5. Aftercare After bloom has finished, the hardy bulbs are badly exhausted. If you feel morally obliged to save the bulbs, move the pot back to a cool, very bright area and water with a balanced fertilizer solution. As soon as possible, remove the soil and bulb mass and transplant to a discreet location in the service garden where the foliage can be allowed to die off naturally. Transplant to a better location in fall, but do not expect good bloom for 2-3 years. D. Species and cultivars suitable for forcing Species marked as "Green thumb" require some experimentation and at least a coldframe or cool greenhouse; other species are suitable for growing entirely in the house. A rough pronunciation is given after the genus name; these are "American Botanical Latin", based on Church Latin. European botanists and gardeners tend to use Classical Latin pronunciation, with some slightly different vowel and consonant sounds. For instance, Americans would pronounce "Julius Caesar" as JEW-lee-us SIEZE-er; Classical Latin would be approximately YOU-lee-us KI-sar. ========================================================= BABIANA [Baboon root] rating: Green thumb [bah-bee-ANN-nah] Sunny; Growing temp: 40-50oF 6-10" tall with dark green, pubescent foliage and blue, violet, red or white flowers. 5 bulbs per 4.5" pot, 2.5-3.5" deep, sandy soil mix, strong sun. B. disticha: blue [DIS-tick-ah] B. plicata: violet and blue [pleh-CAH-tah] B. ringens: scarlet [RIN-jens] B. stricta: white with lilac [STRICT-tah] ________________________ COLCHICUM rating: Brown thumb [COAL-chee-come or COAL-key-come] Any light, including none; temps above freezing Technically, a corm. Will bloom sitting on a bookshelf, producing 8- 20 "giant crocus" flowers. Plant outdoors in sunny, well-drained soil, 2" deep. Leaves produced spring and summer. Hardy to southern Canada. C. autumnale var. album: white single [aw-tum-NAH-leh] C. autumnale var. minor: rose-lilac, star-shaped, shorter than C. autumnale. C. autumnale: pink-lavender single C. byzantinum rose-lilac single [biz-zan-TEEN-num] ---Hybrids and cultivars--- Autumn Queen (+ Princess Astrid): purple checkered over white Lilac Wonder: late-flowering lilac The Giant: late-flowering lilac-mauve with white base Waterlily: double lavender ________________________ CONVALLARIA MAJUS [Lily of the Valley] rating: Green thumb [con-val-AIR-ee-ah MAY-jus] Shaded window; Growing temp 55-65oF You can buy Lily of the Valley pips prepared for forcing, and even arrange for them to be shipped to you throughout the winter. The prepared pips are easy to grow, and will flower 3 weeks after planting. Maintain a 60-65oF temperature at first, rising to 70oF and full light. It is also possible to grow Lily of the Valley from your own plants: This is much less certain, but fun to try. Treat your Lily of the Valley well the previous growing system, applying a balanced fertilizer several times in the growing season. Before hard frost, select a healthy clump and put it in a dark cool place, watering once a week. About 1 February, bring into light. As the flowering stalks appear, you can separate out the flowering pips from those that are too small to bloom, and put the flowering pips in a container of pebbles and water. Or just let the clump bloom. In the spring, you can set the clump back in the bed for bloom some other year. ________________________ CROCUS rating: Easy [CROW-cuss] Sunny window; Growing temp: 45-55oF Both fall and spring blooming species are available. Fall crocus (Crocus sativus, C. speciosus, C. byzantinus) is potted upon receipt in August or September. Pots will bloom almost immediately in an east-facing window. Remove from the pot after flowering and set out in the garden. Spring flowering crocus includes both species and hybrid crocus. For reasons I do not understand, I've never had luck forcing yellow crocus, though the lavender and white cultivars flower easily. Plant several corms just below the surface of the soil in a 4" pot; hold in the cold until shoots reach about 1.5" (3-4 cm); bring into a dim 50oF room, then to a sunny 55oF window. Higher temperatures can prevent flowering. Children may enjoy "crocus balls"; crocus corms are embedded in sphagnum moss, shaped into a ball, and enclosed in coarse netting or a network of string. The sphagnum ball is moistened, then chilled. Following the pre-chill period, the ball is suspended on a string until bloom. Water by dipping in a bucket, being sure to place a pan on the floor after to catch the drips! ________________________ ERANTHUS HIEMALIS (winter aconite) rating: Experienced [air-AN-thus hi-em-MAY-lis] Shaded window; Growing temp 45-55oF Eranthus hiemalis, winter aconite, forces about 70% of the time for me; I plant the tubers just below the soil surface, and treat as for tulips. They will flower in late January if brought in to a sunny cool window in late December. ________________________ ERYTHRONIUM (trout lily; dogtooth violet) rating: Experienced [air-reh-THRONE-knee-um] Shaded window; Growing temp 45-55oF Most species and hybrids are handled just as for Eranthus; but planted 3" deep, several per pot. ________________________ GALANTHUS (snowdrop) rating: Experienced [ga-LAN-thus] Sunny window; Growing temp 40-50oF Galanthus nivalis [niv-VAL-us] has smaller flowers than G. elwesii [el- WES-ee-eye], but both are small charmers with green markings on the perianth that look a bit like rabbits. Plant several to a pot, and force slowly as for tulips. These prefer sun and 45-50o temperatures. Blossoms open in warmth, close in cooler temperatures. This genus will survive and grow if planted in the garden. ________________________ HIPPEASTRUM [Amaryllis] rating: Easy [hippie-AST-rum] Shaded window before flowering, sunny after; Growing temp 65-75oF Standard size: 20-25", blooms 8-10 weeks after planting, 3-4 flowers 5-6" across, per stem. Usually 2 stems per bulb. Plant in potting soil in 4 or 5" clay pots, or several in a larger pot (1/2" between bulbs); 1/3 of bulb above soil. Houseplant fertilizer (10-10-10 or 10-20-20) once monthly from planting to Sept 1. Withhold water gradually, no water from 1 Oct to early or mid-December. Remove yellowed foliage. Temps: 60-70 oF. Sun. Some cvs. will bloom at Christmas if planted mid-Nov. These are marked with an asterisk. Colors in parentheses are the overall impression of flower color from 10 ft. SINGLE STANDARD HIPPEASTRUM Apple blossom: pink stripes over white (light pink) Cantate: fuchsia * Carnival: red with white edge Christmas Gift: white * Cocktail: red with white star Dazzler: white * Desert Dawn: salmon Donau: rosy-red Liberty: red Masai: white with a few scarlet stripes (peppermint stripe) * Milady: pink Minerva: scarlet with white central star; green throat Orange Sovereign: orange Oscar: blue-red Picotee: white with red margin Rilona: peach * Safari: red * Springtime: light pink Star of Holland: red with white star Susan: pink Valentine: med. pink with white central star Vlammenspel: scarlet with white central star * Wedding Dance: white DOUBLE STANDARD HIPPEASTRUM Double Picotee: white with red edge, also red blush on petals Lady Jane: dark coral with a small amount of white striping Pasadena: red with white star "MINIATURE AMARYLLIS" Culture as for standard size Hippeastrum. 15-20" tall, usually 4 flowers per umbel, 2-3 umbels per bulb. Nicest grown in groups of 3-5 bulbs. Charm: orange with yellow-green throat Germa: yellow Pamela: red Scarlet Baby =(+ Gracilis Dulcinea): scarlet Spotty: terra-cotta red with narrow white stripes (light terra-cotta)) ________________________ HYACINTHUS [hyacinth] rating: Easy [hi-ah-SIN-thus] Shaded window while in flower: sunny after; Growing temp 60oF; FRAGRANT You can purchase hyacinths in a number of forms. The quickest to bloom will be "prepared" bulbs of Dutch Hyacinths-- L'Innocence will be in bloom by Christmas if planted by early October. These will bloom about 2-3 weeks before "unprepared" bulbs. If planting bulbs in soil, figure 3 bulbs per 6" pot of the largest size bulbs, 4-6 medium bulbs for a 6" pot. Plant with about 3/4" (1.5 cm) exposed bulb tip. Allow 8-10 weeks of chilling; a bit of leaf and a small tip of flowerbud should be visible before they are removed from the cold. Gradually bring into a 60oF dimly-lit room for growing. When flower stalks are about 4", bring them into full sunlight, but avoid temperatures over about 65oF. Allow 12-16 weeks start to finish. Dutch hyacinths can also be grown in special "hyacinth glasses" in water, and treated much like the soil-grown plants. I have not had as much success with this as with soil culture. Some cultivars suitable for forcing: (Dutch hyacinths that can take water culture are marked with an asterisk*) Ann Marie: single pink; early Bismark; large single sky blue; midseason City of Harlem: soft yellow; late * Grand Maitre: single lavender; midseason Jan Bos: single red; early * King of Blues: single dark blue; late King of Lilacs: light mauve; late * L'Innocence: white single; early if prepared; midseason unprepared * La Victoire: deep red; midseason * Lady Derby: light salmon pink; midseason * Myosotis: single light blue; midseason Ostara: single blue-violet; very early * Pink Pearl: pink single; early Queen of Blues: mid blue; late Queen of Pinks: largest of pinks, late Queen of Whites: late Rosalie: small, bright pink; very early Yellow Hammer: single soft yellow, midseason French-Roman Hyacinths are offered only in color strains of white, pink or blue. These plants should be rooted at 55-60oF, and produce short flower stalks. For continuous bloom from January on, plant every 2-3 weeks. ________________________ IRIS rating: Experienced [EYE-riss] Sunny window; Growing temp: 50-55oF Never allow iris to dry out or the temperature to rise above 55oF, or you will never have flowers. If you can provide these conditions, however, you can easily grow the Dutch Iris cultivars Wedgewood, White Excelsior or Yellow Queen or the tiny Iris reticulata (reh-tick-you-LAH-tah]. These are grown in a sunny window, not prechilled. Feed every two weeks with a balanced fertilizer and salvage for the garden. ________________________ MUSCARI rating: Experienced [muss-CARE-ee] Sunny window; Growing temp: 60oF Two of the best for forcing are 'Early Giant', a large blue,, and Muscari botroides var. album [bot-ree-OY-dees ALB-bum]. Plant several in a 6" pot, just under the soil surface, and root in the cold until the pot is full of roots. Gradually bring into a sunny window of 55-65oF. This species will continue to grow and increase if planted outdoors after flowering. ________________________ NARCISSUS rating: Easy [nar-SIS-us] Sunny window; Growing temp: 55-65oF Force most "non-paperwhites" as you would tulips, choosing varieties noted in the catalog marked as suitable for forcing. There are so many cultivars, I can't begin to list them, but some are: Early: Cragford: white with orange corona; fragrant Forerunner: yellow trumpet Magnificence: golden yellow trumpet Rembrandt: large yellow Midseason: Allard Pierson: yellow corona, white perianth Cheerfulness; double-white; fragrant Early Beauty: yellow corona, white perianth Early Perfection: yellow corona, white perianth Fortune: lemon yellow with orange corona Geranium: white with red corona Golden Harvest: golden yellow Helios: perianth yellow, corona orange Innocence: white with yellow corona John Evelyn: white, frilled corona with orange edge King Alfred: giant yellow La Fiancee: perianth white, corona light orange Laurens Koster: white, red eye; fragrant Mount Hood: creamy white Music Hall: creamy white with yellow corona Scarlet Elegance: yellow with scarlet-bordered corona Von Sion: double yellow Miniature cyclamen species suitable for forcing include N. bulbocodium, the hoop-petticoat narcissus, N. cyclamineus ('February Gold', 'February Silver', 'Beryl' and 'Peeping Tom') and N. triandrus ('Thalia' and 'Moonshine'). ________________________ PAPERWHITE NARCISSUS rating: Novice Sunny window; Growing temp 55-65oF Several umbels of strongly-scented flowers are produced 3-5 weeks after planting. Soil or pebbles or bulb fiber. Room temperature, no prechilling. Sweet odor may be cloying in a small room. No fertilizer. Toss after flowering. If bulbs are not planted immediately, store cool and dry, but does not require refrigeration for storage. (45o-50oF ideal) Erlicheer: cream double Galilee: large, pure white flowers; improved version of old paperwhites. Omri: white flowers with yellow trumpets Soleil d'Or: old favorite yellow; orange trumpet Ziva: white ________________________ PUSCHKINIA SCILLOIDES rating: Experienced [push-KIN-ih-ah skil-LOY-dees] (yep, named for the Russian poet Pushkin) Culture as for Muscari. ________________________ SCILLA rating: Easy [SKILL-ah] or [SILL-ah] Sunny window; Growing temp: 55-65oF Culture as for Muscari. Scilla siberica and S. campanulata (=S. hispanica) are both easy species. ________________________ TULIPA [tulip] rating: novice to experienced [too-LEAP-ah] Sunny window; Growing temp 55-65oF Tulips are classified according to blooming season, doubleness, and species -- most of our garden tulips are of hybrid origin. The garden tulips in the list below are slightly more difficult than paperwhites, but not much... Plant several bulbs per pot in soil, bulbs not quite touching. (usually 6-7 bulbs in a 6" pot, 8-9 in a 7", 9-12 bulbs in an 8" pan) Conventionally, the flat side of the bulb is oriented toward the outside of the pot: the first leaf will appear on this side. Store at 35-50 oF for 12 weeks; you may need to water if the pots dry out in this period. Bring indoors when top growth has reached about 2", gradually bringing them into full sun and 55-65 oF growing temperature. Taller cultivars may require staking. After bloom, toss the bulbs. If you must try to grow them next year, fertilize with houseplant fertilizer, and keep in as cool and sunny a spot as you have until you can transplant (in clumps) to a pre-dug trench in the garden. Be prepared for very disappointing flowering for the next 2-3 years. Cultivars marked "late" in the list below may require longer prechilling, and will bloom about March. As you gain more experience, you can branch out into other classifications of tulips. Some experiments will be rewarding, others, well -- live and learn! ---Singles--- (mostly easy to force; # marks cultivars used for commercial forcing: details available in Ball Red Book. Dates in parentheses denote year of origin. # Albury: red; late All Bright: deep red with white base and ring of pure blue Ambassador: red Anna Jose: pink with white edge, 16-18"; late # Apricot Beauty: apricot, late # Attila: dark lavender; 18-20"; late Attraction: orange scarlet; early # Atom: red; late # Bellona: yellow, 15"; fragrant (outstanding yellow!); early Bestseller: coppery-apricot pink; fragrant, 16-20"; late # Bing Crosby: red # Blenda: rose # Blizzard: white; late Boccherini: lilac blue, 20"; late Brilliant Star: scarlet, 12" Broadway: red with white edging: 16-18"; late # Carl M. Bellman: bicolor, late # Cassini: red # Charles: red Cheerleader: red; 16-20; late # Christmas Gold: yellow # Christmas Marvel: cherry pink, 12 # Comet: bicolor: bicolor Cordell Hull: white, splashed deep cherry red (Rembrandt) # Couleur Cardinal: dark red, 12", fragrant (1845); late Crater: dark red # Danton: red Demeter: violet; early # Denbola: bicolor; late # Diplomate: red; late Don Quichotte: medium fuchsia; 16-18; late Douglas Bader: pale pink; 16-18"; late Dreaming Maid: rosy violet, white edge; 16-18"; late Duc de Berlin: red, edged yellow; early Duc van Tol Scarlet: scarlet; early Duc van Tol White: white, early Early Queen: deep rose; early Easter Fire: red, late, 14-16" # Edith Eddy: bicolor; late Elmus: cherry red, edged pure white Ganders Rhapsody: pink shaded to red edge; 16-18" General de Wet: orange, 13"; fragrant (outstanding); early # Golden Eddy: bicolor; late Golden Glory: yellow, early Golden Harvest: deep lemon Golden Melody: soft yellow, 20", late Ibis: dark rose, 13" # Hibernia: white # Invasion: bicolor Jo-Ann: soft pink, 20"; late # Karel Doorman: bicolor # Kareol: yellow # Kees Nelis: bicolor Keizerskroon: dark rose, edged yellow, 15"; fragrant (1750) King of the Yellows; yellow; early Leen van der Mark: bright red with white edge; late; 22" # Madame Spoor: bicolor # Makassar: yellow; late # Merry Widow: bicolor: red with white margin # Mirjoran: bicolor # Monte Carlo: yellow Mon Tresor: yellow, 12"; early Negrita: deep purple; 18-20"; late New Design: pale yellow, white midpetals, pink edges; 16-20"; late Niphetos: soft lemon; late # Olaf: red Olga: violet red, edged white; early. # Orange Sun: orange, late Orange Wonder: orange, fragrant, 18", late # Ornament: deep yellow; late Page Polka: white with broad pink border; 18"; late # Palestrina: rose; late # Paris: bicolor; late # Paul Richter: scarlet; mid season # Pax: white # Peerless Pink: pink, large flowers, 20"; late Praestens Fusilier: bunch flowering scarlet; February, grow 55-60oF # Preludium: rose Prince Carnival: red/yellow, 15" # Prince Charles: lavender # Princess Irene: orange, fragrant, late; 10-12" Prince of Austria: scarlet, 15" # Prominance: red Proserpine: deep rose; early Queen of Bartigons: salmon pink with yellow stamens # Red Giant: red; late # Robinea: red; late # Stockholm: red Tambour Maitre: red, slight fragrance, 18"; late # Thule: bicolor # Topscore: red # Trance: red Van Der Neer: plum, 12"; fragrant (1860) Vermilion Brilliant: scarlet Victor H. Ries: purple, 16-20"; late # Virtuoso: rose; late White Dream: pure white, 16-18"; late White Dream: white, 20"; late White Hawk: white, 12" Yellow Present: pale yellow, 16-18"; late --Early Doubles Dante: red Mr van Der Hoef: pure yellow Peach Blossom: rosy pink Scarlet Cardinal; scarlet double; early Willemsoord: bright carmine, edged white ________________________ VELTHEIMIA rating: Green thumb [velt-HI-me-ah] Growing temp 50-55oF Culture as for Hippeastrum; plant in a pot just an inch or so larger than the bulb in November or December. Feed with a balanced fertilizer every couple of weeks until growth starts. A tall stalk with 20-30 long lasting, pinkish flowers will appear. When flowers fade, rest the plant dry in the pot until August or September. ________________________ --Kay Klier From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Aug 19 07:06:15 EDT 1993 Article: 21417 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: More bulbs! Message-ID: <1993Aug18.183709.15746@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 18 Aug 93 18:37:09 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 15 From: IN%"les@cac.washington.EDU" 18-AUG-1993 17:52:48.79 To: IN%"klier@iscsvax.uni.edu" CC: Subj: RE: Bulb Catalogs -- FAQ You might add: RoozenGaarde, Division of Washington Bulb Company 1587 Beaver Marsh Road Mount Vernon, WA 98273 206-424-8531 1-800-732-3266 Comments: Excellent high quality Tulips, Daffodils, and other such spring flowering bulbs. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Aug 19 07:06:51 EDT 1993 Article: 21418 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Where I buy bulbs... Message-ID: <1993Aug18.184208.15747@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 18 Aug 93 18:42:08 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 18 One of the things we could really use for the catalog faq's are people's pithy comments and recommendations. For instance, I've not purchased from 90% of the folks on the bulb catalog list... and when my friends ask for recommendations, I tend to send them to: Dutch Gardens: For most common bulbs; good prices, excellent quality. McClure & Zimmerman: esp. for species bulbs, and hard-to-find things John Scheepers: for exhibition quality bulbs. For folks who are on extremely tight budgets and have the time to wait, I've also had good luck with the row-run bulbs (unsorted, may be tiny or large) from Pinetree... but they won't all bloom the first year the way the bigger bulbs will. Kay From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!news Thu Aug 19 07:08:03 EDT 1993 Article: 21425 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!news From: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey) Subject: Re: Oriental vegetables seeds wanted? Reply-To: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca Organization: University of Western Ontario Distribution: na Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 10:10:38 GMT Message-ID: <1993Aug19.101038.24073@julian.uwo.ca> References: <1993Aug18.141747.2984@vixvax.mgi.com> Sender: news@julian.uwo.ca (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: cupoftea.ctrg.rri.uwo.ca Lines: 15 In article <1993Aug18.141747.2984@vixvax.mgi.com> ying@vixvax.mgi.com writes: >Hi, > >Can anyone tell me where can I find mail order seeds for oriental vegetables, >like hollow vegetable (Ong Choy), Chinese broccoli, Choy Sum, etc. stokes seeds (St. Catherines Ontario, with sales representitives throughout the states) sells oriental vegetable seeds. -- Lance R. Bailey System/Network Manager Robarts Research Institute NeXT/email: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca box: Clinical Trials Resources Group fax: +1 519 663 3789 P.O. Box 5015, 100 Perth Dr. vox: +1 519 663 3787 x4108 London, Canada N6A 5K8 This package contains one (1) electronic message. Do not eat. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sgi!cdp!libby Thu Aug 19 07:09:36 EDT 1993 Article: 21251 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sgi!cdp!libby From: Libby Goldstein Newsgroups: rec.gardens Date: 14 Aug 93 17:13 PDT Subject: Re: jicama my experiences so far Message-ID: <1453300299@igc.apc.org> References: <1993Aug13.173000.24283@phx.mcd.m> Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Lines: 6 Leave them in the ground as long as you can and keep them fed and watered. They don't start bulb initiation until the days begin to shorten...a lot. Next year, start them indoors with only 9-10 of light and you should get a crop. Libby From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Aug 19 07:10:06 EDT 1993 Article: 21260 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Orchids Message-ID: <1993Aug15.184515.15642@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 15 Aug 93 18:45:15 -0500 References: <24inqoINNg4m@xs4all.hacktic.nl> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 16 In article <24inqoINNg4m@xs4all.hacktic.nl>, julie@hacktic.nl (Julie Edwards) writes: > I have a friend that would like to send me some of his orchids. > > Any ideas on how this may be accomplished? > Oh, almost forgot....He lives in the U.S. and I live in the netherlands. > Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Your friend should check with the USDA for proper permits, and you'll have to get clearance/permits from your plant inspection authority or authorities. Orchids are generally covered by CITES regulations, and sending species orchids is a major bureaucratic headache. The only easy way to ship orchids is as seedlings in flasks. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier Thu Aug 19 07:10:50 EDT 1993 Article: 21276 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: when to fertilize Message-ID: <1993Aug16.125329.15650@iscsvax.uni.edu> Date: 16 Aug 93 12:53:29 -0500 References: Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 40 In article , saari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.EDU (Susan J Saari) writes: > > When is it best to fertilize: tomatoes, peppers, perennials, annuals, > evergreens, fruiting trees, roses, spring bulbs, irises, day lilies, > oriental lilies? Never fertilize a plant that's going to be going into dormancy in the next 6 weeks or so*. So, yes, a light feeding now should be OK. *The exception is the time-release fertilizers, like osmo-cote. Most fertilization should be done just before a plant comes out of dormancy, then lightly through the growing season if you're using "quick acting fertilizers", like most of the water soluble sorts. If you're using manures and composts, they're basically slow-release fertilizers and can be used pretty much anytime. > Kay, we'll take some of your water. All I've done in August is drag > my hoses around the yard. As soon as I get finished with the last part, > I have to start over with the first part. And I think the southeast > is much worse off than we are. I'm saddened to read about you loosing > your trees and wish there was something I could do. Maybe I could > send some of my plants next spring... I even have some ash, black > walnut, and other seedlings I get volunteering all the time. Alas, the house I'm in has no room for planting at the moment... it's one of those giant Edwardian barns that occupy most of the lot. There are a few trees on the parking... a big silver maple and a weeping willow (sigh), a cucumber tree and a Robinia hispida. The rest of the growing area is foundation beds that only support dense shade plants. And I did make a container garden on my back steps, about the only spot that gets sun, for my tomatoes and a few plants for teaching. But you're welcome to all the water you want... Ames is flooding again, and Cedar Rapids (about 50 mi south) was flooded most of the weekend... parts of the state got 6" of water in a one hour storm. We've had 5 storms, each dumping a minimum of half an inch, since Friday afternoon. Kay Klier University of Northern Iowa Cedar Falls From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!srgenprp!dbailey Thu Aug 19 07:11:24 EDT 1993 Article: 21307 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!srgenprp!dbailey From: dbailey@sr.hp.com (Dave Bailey) Subject: Re: when to fertilize Sender: news@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (News Administrator) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:37:53 GMT References: <1993Aug16.125329.15650@iscsvax.uni.edu> Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4] Lines: 33 >Most fertilization should be done just before a plant comes out >of dormancy, then lightly through the growing season if you're >using "quick acting fertilizers", like most of the water soluble >sorts. If you're using manures and composts, they're basically >slow-release fertilizers and can be used pretty much anytime. In Shigo,1991 "Modern Arboriculture" and Harris, 1992 "Aboriculture" both state that is best to fertilize after leaf flush in the late summer or early fall. It is though that fertilizer applied a month prior to leaf flush is stored in the tree and used the following year. If fertilizer is applied well before leaf flush, the tree attempts to use this energy immediately to generate more growth than it can handle. Trees under stress should not be fertilized. Fertilizer promotes growth which uses the trees reserved energy. When a tree is under stress it is more susceptible to attack by insects and disease and it needs all of its strength to respond to the attack. There is also some thought that relatively little or no fertilizer should be applied to an older tree. -- +----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+ | ___ | David Bailey | | / / | Lightwave Organization | | HEWLETT/hp/PACKARD | 1412 Fountaingrove Parkway | | /__/ | Santa Rosa, Ca. 95403-1799 | | Lightwave | Internet: dbailey@sr.hp.com | | Organization | Tel : (707) 577-3370 | +----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+ ---------- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!bdrc!surfac6.bdrc.bd.com!Spencer Thu Aug 19 23:45:53 EDT 1993 Article: 160 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!bdrc!surfac6.bdrc.bd.com!Spencer From: Spencer@bdrc.bd.com (K. Spencer) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens,rec.gardens Subject: nEVERGREEN Summary: what is killing my pinetree, what can i do Keywords: parasites, pine Message-ID: Date: 19 Aug 93 13:51:05 GMT Sender: news@bdrc.bdrc.bd.com Followup-To: triangle.gardens Organization: BDRC R.T.P. NC USA A.OK Lines: 13 Nntp-Posting-Host: surfac6.bdrc.bd.com Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu triangle.gardens:160 rec.gardens:21438 I've got a pinetree out back that has turned brown in less than a week's time. I thought It might be the local drought, but recent rains haven't helped any. The tree's needles are brown and droopy. One of my neighbors said "Pine beetles". If this is the case, how do I off these suckers and save my tree? Is it possible to nurse this sick pine back to health? I hate to sound sappy, but I'm rather attached to it.:) ANY suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in advance, Spencer From samba.oit.unc.edu!jfm Fri Aug 20 09:44:41 EDT 1993 Article: 161 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!jfm From: jfm@med.unc.edu (John F. Miller) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Re: nEVERGREEN Date: 20 Aug 1993 12:52:24 GMT Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine Lines: 28 Message-ID: <252he8$iib@samba.oit.unc.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hasty.med.unc.edu Keywords: parasites, pine In article Spencer@bdrc.bd.com (K. Spencer) writes: >I've got a pinetree out back that has turned brown in less than a week's >time. I thought It might be the local drought, but recent rains haven't >helped any. The tree's needles are brown and droopy. > >One of my neighbors said "Pine beetles". If this is the case, how do I >off these suckers and save my tree? Is it possible to nurse this sick >pine back to health? I hate to sound sappy, but I'm rather attached to it.:) > If you have pine beetles, the tree is a goner and should be destroyed immediately to avoid infestation of other pines in the neighborhood. In any case, it sounds like the tree is a goner. Call a tree service to look at it. As many pines as there are in this part of the country, I've never understood how anyone can be so fond of them. As far as I'm concerned, pine trees are weeds. In my yard, I'm gradually thinning out the pines in favor of hardwoods, and almost every pine under a foot in diameter is living on borrowed time. -- John Miller -- John Miller (jfm@med.unc.edu) Department of Pharmacology, UNC-CH School of Medicine 1026A FLOB (231H) CB#7365, Chapel Hill, NC 27599 Tel: (919) 966-6966 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!sernews!news Fri Aug 20 21:10:11 EDT 1993 Article: 162 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!sernews!news From: kirks@kfsmith.raleigh.ibm.com (Kirk Smith) Subject: Re: nEVERGREEN Sender: news@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 19:19:24 GMT Lines: 27 Reply-To: kfsmith@vnet.ibm.com (Kirk Smith) References: Nntp-Posting-Host: kfsmith.raleigh.ibm.com Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, NC X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.00 In , Spencer@bdrc.bd.com (K. Spencer) writes: >I've got a pinetree out back that has turned brown in less than a week's >time. I thought It might be the local drought, but recent rains haven't >helped any. The tree's needles are brown and droopy. > >One of my neighbors said "Pine beetles". If this is the case, how do I >off these suckers and save my tree? Is it possible to nurse this sick >pine back to health? I hate to sound sappy, but I'm rather attached to it.:) > >ANY suggestions would be helpful. > >Thanks in advance, > >Spencer There was a local news story on WRAL TV this morning about the beetles. I was paying strict attention but these beetles apparently bore into the tree and lay eggs which kills the tree. They said you need to cut the tree down to prevent the spread. In any case, you may want to watch the news tonight. I'm sure WRAL will repeat the story... Kirk F. Smith IBM CallPath/DirectTalk Product Support VNET: KIRKS@RTP IBM IPNet: kirks@kfsmith.raleigh.ibm.com Internet: kfsmith@vnet.ibm.com From rosinia@gibbs.oit.unc.edu Mon Aug 23 23:23:09 EDT 1993 Article: 163 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!gibbs!rosinia From: rosinia@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (James Rosinia) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens,rec.gardens Subject: pruning advice needed Date: 23 Aug 93 12:17:18 GMT Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Lines: 26 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: gibbs.oit.unc.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu triangle.gardens:163 rec.gardens:21577 Ya know how you sometimes keep putting off a chore until you can't put it off any longer so you finally tackle it in a burst of near-frenzied activity and then wonder if you did the right thing? We're a couple of relative neophyte homeowner/gardeners. We've got some dogwoods on both sides of our driveway. This past summer, the lower branches have grown into the driveway so much that they rub against the car. While it's pretty when they're in bloom during the spring and even in the summer (a sort of leafy green gate), it was getting to be too much. While the previous owners seemed to like having the low branches on trees all around the yard hanging down to brush the ground, we want to raise that level a bit so that we can put in some lower plants/flowers/shrubs. I started this weekend by cutting off the lower branches on the dogwoods along the drive. It certainly looks a LOT better -- now there's a shape to the tree rather than a mass that blends into the groundcover below. And now the car can pass under a canopy rather than through a mass of branches. But now I wonder if I shouldn't have waited until after they bloomed in the spring. While we've got lots of other flowering plants to enjoy in the spring, I worry that I might have done some damage. Please tell me I didn't. Thanks in advance, jim_rosinia@unc.edu From sasdmh@hiker.unx.sas.com Mon Aug 23 23:23:10 EDT 1993 Article: 164 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasdmh From: sasdmh@hiker.unx.sas.com (David Hall) Subject: Re: pruning advice needed Originator: sasdmh@hiker.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 13:54:29 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: hiker.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 56 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu triangle.gardens:164 rec.gardens:21580 In article , rosinia@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (James Rosinia) writes: >. >. >. > >We're a couple of relative neophyte homeowner/gardeners. We've got some >dogwoods on both sides of our driveway. This past summer, the lower >branches have grown into the driveway so much that they rub against the >car. While it's pretty when they're in bloom during the spring and even >in the summer (a sort of leafy green gate), it was getting to be too much. >While the previous owners seemed to like having the low branches on trees >all around the yard hanging down to brush the ground, we want to raise >that level a bit so that we can put in some lower plants/flowers/shrubs. > >I started this weekend by cutting off the lower branches on the dogwoods >along the drive. It certainly looks a LOT better -- now there's a shape >to the tree rather than a mass that blends into the groundcover below. >And now the car can pass under a canopy rather than through a mass of >branches. But now I wonder if I shouldn't have waited until after they >bloomed in the spring. While we've got lots of other flowering plants to >enjoy in the spring, I worry that I might have done some damage. > >Please tell me I didn't. > >Thanks in advance, >jim_rosinia@unc.edu > You can prune trees and large shrubs such as dogwoods at any time of year. While in the past many people have suggested trimming trees in the winter while they're dormant, people are now realizing that trimming in the summer has some advantages. The greatest advantage is that you immediately see what your trimmed tree looks like with the green leaves on it. If you prune in the winter, you're kinda guessing what it'll look like in the summer. The decision on whether to trim before or after flowering has to do largely with (1) keeping a shrub under control and at the same time (2) encouraging flowers. Some shrubs produce flowers on only new growth; others produce floweres only on old growth. If a shrub blooms only on new growth, you typically want to cut it back in late fall through early spring so that there's lots of new growth when spring and summer roll around. If a plant blooms only on old growth, you generally want to trim it back right after it blooms. That way the plant will put out new growth for the rest of the growing season, and next year there'll be year-old wood for flowers. If I understand correctly, you're "limbing up" the tree, i.e., removing lower limbs to open up beneath the tree while leaving the upper canopy. If this is what you're after, you shouldn't have to worry about when you cut the limbs back, since you're not really looking to encourage blooms on the lower parts of the tree. David From princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu Mon Aug 23 23:23:10 EDT 1993 Article: 165 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!news.duke.edu!bio2.acpub.duke.edu!princek From: princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: poison ivy Message-ID: <19446@news.duke.edu> Date: 23 Aug 93 14:29:19 GMT Sender: news@news.duke.edu Reply-To: princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: bio2.acpub.duke.edu I just moved into a new house with a bed of ivy (english?) in the back. The problem is that there is poison ivy in there too. Any ideas on how to get rid of the poison variety with minimal damage to the other kind? Thanks in advance Katya Prince From sasvcd@mite.unx.sas.com Mon Aug 23 23:23:11 EDT 1993 Article: 166 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasvcd From: sasvcd@mite.unx.sas.com (Vincent DelGobbo) Subject: Re: poison ivy Originator: sasvcd@mite.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 16:47:55 GMT References: <19446@news.duke.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: mite.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 16 In article <19446@news.duke.edu>, princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) writes: > >I just moved into a new house with a bed of ivy (english?) in the back. >The problem is that there is poison ivy in there too. Any ideas on how to >get rid of the poison variety with minimal damage to the other kind? > >Thanks in advance > >Katya Prince There is an Ortho product that selectively kills poison ivy. It comes in an aeorsol can, and probably other forms as well. I'm not sure what other types of plants it affects, but you can check the label. Vince From peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com Mon Aug 23 23:23:12 EDT 1993 Article: 167 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com!peters From: peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters x678) Subject: Re: poison ivy References: <19446@news.duke.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 17:44:02 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Research Triangle Park, NC Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com Message-ID: <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 18 In article <19446@news.duke.edu> princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) writes: > >I just moved into a new house with a bed of ivy (english?) in the back. >The problem is that there is poison ivy in there too. Any ideas on how to >get rid of the poison variety with minimal damage to the other kind? > >Thanks in advance > >Katya Prince I'd try sprying a few applications of roundup on the leaves of the poison ivy. Believe me, English ivy is one of the most resilient and hardy plants i've ever seen. I have all I can do to control it and prevent the stuff from overtaking every tree and any other structure on my property. It won't be bothered significantly by the roundup. If you're still worried, get a cardboard box and cut a slot on one side. Slide the plant through the slot (taking the obvious precautions), then give a good dose of the herbicide. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmmp Thu Aug 26 19:31:01 EDT 1993 Article: 168 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmmp From: sasmmp@termite.unx.sas.com (Meg Pounds) Subject: Re: poison ivy Originator: sasmmp@termite.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 15:45:35 GMT References: <19446@news.duke.edu> <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: termite.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 35 In article <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com>, peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters x678) writes: >In article <19446@news.duke.edu> princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) writes: >> >>I just moved into a new house with a bed of ivy (english?) in the back. >>The problem is that there is poison ivy in there too. Any ideas on how to >>get rid of the poison variety with minimal damage to the other kind? >> >>Thanks in advance >> >>Katya Prince > >I'd try sprying a few applications of roundup on the leaves of the poison >ivy. Believe me, English ivy is one of the most resilient and hardy plants >i've ever seen. I have all I can do to control it and prevent the stuff >from overtaking every tree and any other structure on my property. It >won't be bothered significantly by the roundup. If you're still worried, >get a cardboard box and cut a slot on one side. Slide the plant through >the slot (taking the obvious precautions), then give a good dose of the >herbicide. After being infected several times lately, I finally found a rather large poison ivy plant disguising itself as a bush bean plant. It now has brothers and sisters growing also. Since it is in the thick of my bush beans I'm not crazy about using roundup. I'm extremely sensitive to poison ivy so I'm not wild about just picking it with gloves on and it is too big for the 'bag over the hand trick'. Are the beans still OK to eat after growing around the ivy? Can I use roundup and still eat the beans? thanks for any advice, Meg Pounds -- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!news.duke.edu!dukemc.mc.duke.edu!morel002 Thu Aug 26 19:31:02 EDT 1993 Article: 169 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!news.duke.edu!dukemc.mc.duke.edu!morel002 From: morel002@dukemc.mc.duke.edu (Dave Moreland) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: stump removal Keywords: stump removal Message-ID: Date: 26 Aug 93 12:18:07 GMT Sender: news@news.duke.edu Organization: Duke University Medical Center Lines: 13 Nntp-Posting-Host: morel002.mc.duke.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev Final Beta #7] Hi Folks, any recommendations on how to remove the stumps of cut trees...? The trees were no more than 12" in diameter... I considered blowing them up -- no dynamite... I considered digging them up -- BIG root structure... What do you think...? dave moreland From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasjzs Thu Aug 26 19:31:03 EDT 1993 Article: 170 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasjzs From: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com (Joseph Slater) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:58:33 GMT Reply-To: sasjzs@vms.sas.com References: Nntp-Posting-Host: falcon.unx.sas.com Organization: Or lack thereof Keywords: stump removal Lines: 23 In article , morel002@dukemc.mc.duke.edu (Dave Moreland) writes: |>Hi Folks, |> |>any recommendations on how to remove the stumps of cut trees...? Depends on what kind of tree and how big of a hurry you are in. If they aren't sweetgum, you can cut them off as close to the ground as possible. Then take an axe or maul (or I guess a drill would work) and put as many holes in the top of the stump as you can (to let in water.) It takes most stumps about a year to rot out. Sweetgums just put out new shoots. Pines rot the fastest Obviously not the solution if you want it gone now, but it certainly doesn't take as much effort as digging, and you're not likely to blow up your house either! Joe Slater sasjzs@vms.sas.com Mine opinion is just that. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasdxp Thu Aug 26 19:31:03 EDT 1993 Article: 171 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasdxp From: sasdxp@yang.unx.sas.com (David M. Price) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasdxp@yang.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:17:34 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: yang.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Keywords: stump removal Lines: 47 In article , sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com (Joseph Slater) writes: |> If they aren't sweetgum, you can cut them off as close to the |> ground as possible. Then take an axe or maul (or I guess a |> drill would work) and put as many holes in the top of the |> stump as you can (to let in water.) It takes most stumps |> about a year to rot out. Sweetgums just put out new shoots. |> Pines rot the fastest |> |> Obviously not the solution if you want it gone now, but it |> certainly doesn't take as much effort as digging, and you're |> not likely to blow up your house either! Joe, thanx for the info. A friend and I just bought a parcel of land, part of which was cleared about a year ago for timber, and the trees are coming back fast. We would like to clear and keep clear part of it for a building site (an acre or more), and keep the way clear for a road to be built to there. The rest we'll just leave and let come back. How can we kill the (reemerging) trees in the areas we want clear? I've heard that you can obtain some really strong chemicals (industrial strength stuff that makes Roundup look like organic fertilizer). If we could kill the reemerging trees before they get too big, then the new shoots would/die/rot and we could proceed with some sort of stump removal plan. Does anybody know about such chemical 'tree-killers' and where they might be obtained? (I know, not the most ecologically correct way to do things). Thanks, David -- David Price | "This is only a test: this is not a real (sasdxp@unx.sas.com) | life. If this had been a real life you | would have been given instructions." SAS Institute Inc. Cary, NC USA 27513-2414 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Thu Aug 26 19:31:04 EDT 1993 Article: 172 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:36:24 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Keywords: stump removal Lines: 13 I bought some stump remover at Fairview (Holly Springs Rd, between Penny Rd and 1010) but I haven't used it yet. You drill a hole and pour it in. It is supposed to accelerate decomposition and eliminate new growth. It was $3 a bottle, but I can't say how much it will treat yet. It came recommended (by the people who sell it ;-) -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasjzs Thu Aug 26 19:31:05 EDT 1993 Article: 173 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasjzs From: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com (Joseph Slater) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:44:59 GMT Reply-To: sasjzs@vms.sas.com References: Nntp-Posting-Host: falcon.unx.sas.com Organization: Or lack thereof Keywords: stump removal Lines: 35 In article , sasdxp@yang.unx.sas.com (David M. Price) writes: |> |> |>How can we kill the (reemerging) trees in the areas we want clear? You can always bush hog 'em. Or have someone do it periodically since most of us don't have a tractor and bush hog laying around. Have it done two or three times a year. Don't know how much someone would charge. If you have big stumps (or alot of them) in the area you want clear, it may be better to hire someone with a bulldozer to go ahead and take your stumps out and haul them away and grade the area where you want the house and road. This essentially means clearing it now, using the bush hog to keep down the weeds till you're ready to deal with the land. I makes the mowing easier if you don't have to dodge stumps with the tractor. It also gives the land a chance to heal before bringing in the construction crew. For that matter, you could even go ahead and plant grass. You would still need to bush hog it, but less landscaping to do later, although you would probably need to do the grass over if you want a yuppie yard. |> |>I've heard that you can obtain some really strong chemicals I've also (I think) seen some kind of enzime you pour on the stump which will hasten the rotting process, but I've never used it nor do I remember when or where I saw the ads. Anyone else ever used the stuff? Joe Slater sasjzs@vms.sas.com Mine opinion is just that. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmzc Thu Aug 26 19:31:05 EDT 1993 Article: 174 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmzc From: sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com (Ming Chang) Subject: wanted: big ceramic flower pot Originator: sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:53:10 GMT Distribution: triangle Nntp-Posting-Host: ohm.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 9 I am looking for a big ceramic flower pot which must be bigger than 22 inches in diameter. If you have one and want to sell, please E-mail to me. My E-mail address is sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com , and phone number is 677-8000 ext. 6879. Thanks, Ming Chang From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasjsh Thu Aug 26 19:31:06 EDT 1993 Article: 175 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasjsh From: sasjsh@basil.unx.sas.com (Joseph O. Hines Jr.) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasjsh@basil.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 18:24:16 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: basil.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Keywords: stump removal Lines: 82 In article , sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com (Joseph Slater) writes: |> |> In article , |> sasdxp@yang.unx.sas.com (David M. Price) writes: |> |> |> |> |> |>How can we kill the (reemerging) trees in the areas we want clear? |> |> You can always bush hog 'em. Or have someone do it periodically |> since most of us don't have a tractor and bush hog laying around. |> Have it done two or three times a year. Don't know how much |> someone would charge. |> |> If you have big stumps (or alot of them) in the area you want clear, |> it may be better to hire someone with a bulldozer to go ahead and |> take your stumps out and haul them away and grade the area where |> you want the house and road. This essentially means clearing it |> now, using the bush hog to keep down the weeds till you're ready |> to deal with the land. I makes the mowing easier if you don't have |> to dodge stumps with the tractor. It also gives the land a chance |> to heal before bringing in the construction crew. For that matter, |> you could even go ahead and plant grass. You would still need to |> bush hog it, but less landscaping to do later, although you would |> probably need to do the grass over if you want a yuppie yard. |> |> |> |> |>I've heard that you can obtain some really strong chemicals |> |> I've also (I think) seen some kind of enzime you pour on the |> stump which will hasten the rotting process, but I've never |> used it nor do I remember when or where I saw the ads. Anyone |> else ever used the stuff? |> |> Joe Slater |> sasjzs@vms.sas.com |> Mine opinion is just that. Have you thought about grinding the stumps down? I cut down a pine (14in diameter) last year and then had it ground down. I believe the name of the place was B&B Stump Removal Service (467-8413). I think they did a great job for a good price. The more stumps that you have removed the cheaper it gets (per stump that is ;-) ). I believe that they were going to charge me $50 to do the job but since they were goint to be in the area anyway they only charged $25. Nice people. I think this should be much prefered over chemicals that ALWAYS do more that just kill or rot the tree. It scares me just thinking about all that "stuff" seeping into our water supply. If you do use chemicals (and I hope you choose not to) be careful not to breathe the fumes or get any on your skin! (Geeze I'm starting to sound like my paents 8-0 ). Thanks Joe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Joe Hines | sasjsh@unx.sas.com | "ack ack... pffft!" - Bill The Cat SAS Institute | From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmzc Thu Aug 26 19:31:06 EDT 1993 Article: 176 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmzc From: sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com (Ming Chang) Subject: How big the pot do I need? Originator: sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 20:54:19 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: ohm.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 11 I bought an Alberta Spruce and plan to plant in a pot. The tree can tolerate very low temperature(-40~-50F), but I don't know how big the pot I need to prevent form being totally frozen and that might kill the roots. The tree is only 3 feet tall now and might grow to 6~8 feet. Any information will be appreciated. Thanks, Ming Chang From rosinia@gibbs.oit.unc.edu Sat Aug 28 01:31:50 EDT 1993 Article: 163 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!gibbs!rosinia From: rosinia@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (James Rosinia) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens,rec.gardens Subject: pruning advice needed Date: 23 Aug 93 12:17:18 GMT Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Lines: 26 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: gibbs.oit.unc.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu triangle.gardens:163 rec.gardens:21577 Ya know how you sometimes keep putting off a chore until you can't put it off any longer so you finally tackle it in a burst of near-frenzied activity and then wonder if you did the right thing? We're a couple of relative neophyte homeowner/gardeners. We've got some dogwoods on both sides of our driveway. This past summer, the lower branches have grown into the driveway so much that they rub against the car. While it's pretty when they're in bloom during the spring and even in the summer (a sort of leafy green gate), it was getting to be too much. While the previous owners seemed to like having the low branches on trees all around the yard hanging down to brush the ground, we want to raise that level a bit so that we can put in some lower plants/flowers/shrubs. I started this weekend by cutting off the lower branches on the dogwoods along the drive. It certainly looks a LOT better -- now there's a shape to the tree rather than a mass that blends into the groundcover below. And now the car can pass under a canopy rather than through a mass of branches. But now I wonder if I shouldn't have waited until after they bloomed in the spring. While we've got lots of other flowering plants to enjoy in the spring, I worry that I might have done some damage. Please tell me I didn't. Thanks in advance, jim_rosinia@unc.edu From sasdmh@hiker.unx.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:31:51 EDT 1993 Article: 164 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasdmh From: sasdmh@hiker.unx.sas.com (David Hall) Subject: Re: pruning advice needed Originator: sasdmh@hiker.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 13:54:29 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: hiker.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 56 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu triangle.gardens:164 rec.gardens:21580 In article , rosinia@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (James Rosinia) writes: >. >. >. > >We're a couple of relative neophyte homeowner/gardeners. We've got some >dogwoods on both sides of our driveway. This past summer, the lower >branches have grown into the driveway so much that they rub against the >car. While it's pretty when they're in bloom during the spring and even >in the summer (a sort of leafy green gate), it was getting to be too much. >While the previous owners seemed to like having the low branches on trees >all around the yard hanging down to brush the ground, we want to raise >that level a bit so that we can put in some lower plants/flowers/shrubs. > >I started this weekend by cutting off the lower branches on the dogwoods >along the drive. It certainly looks a LOT better -- now there's a shape >to the tree rather than a mass that blends into the groundcover below. >And now the car can pass under a canopy rather than through a mass of >branches. But now I wonder if I shouldn't have waited until after they >bloomed in the spring. While we've got lots of other flowering plants to >enjoy in the spring, I worry that I might have done some damage. > >Please tell me I didn't. > >Thanks in advance, >jim_rosinia@unc.edu > You can prune trees and large shrubs such as dogwoods at any time of year. While in the past many people have suggested trimming trees in the winter while they're dormant, people are now realizing that trimming in the summer has some advantages. The greatest advantage is that you immediately see what your trimmed tree looks like with the green leaves on it. If you prune in the winter, you're kinda guessing what it'll look like in the summer. The decision on whether to trim before or after flowering has to do largely with (1) keeping a shrub under control and at the same time (2) encouraging flowers. Some shrubs produce flowers on only new growth; others produce floweres only on old growth. If a shrub blooms only on new growth, you typically want to cut it back in late fall through early spring so that there's lots of new growth when spring and summer roll around. If a plant blooms only on old growth, you generally want to trim it back right after it blooms. That way the plant will put out new growth for the rest of the growing season, and next year there'll be year-old wood for flowers. If I understand correctly, you're "limbing up" the tree, i.e., removing lower limbs to open up beneath the tree while leaving the upper canopy. If this is what you're after, you shouldn't have to worry about when you cut the limbs back, since you're not really looking to encourage blooms on the lower parts of the tree. David From princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu Sat Aug 28 01:31:52 EDT 1993 Article: 165 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!news.duke.edu!bio2.acpub.duke.edu!princek From: princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: poison ivy Message-ID: <19446@news.duke.edu> Date: 23 Aug 93 14:29:19 GMT Sender: news@news.duke.edu Reply-To: princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: bio2.acpub.duke.edu I just moved into a new house with a bed of ivy (english?) in the back. The problem is that there is poison ivy in there too. Any ideas on how to get rid of the poison variety with minimal damage to the other kind? Thanks in advance Katya Prince From sasvcd@mite.unx.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:31:53 EDT 1993 Article: 166 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasvcd From: sasvcd@mite.unx.sas.com (Vincent DelGobbo) Subject: Re: poison ivy Originator: sasvcd@mite.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 16:47:55 GMT References: <19446@news.duke.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: mite.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 16 In article <19446@news.duke.edu>, princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) writes: > >I just moved into a new house with a bed of ivy (english?) in the back. >The problem is that there is poison ivy in there too. Any ideas on how to >get rid of the poison variety with minimal damage to the other kind? > >Thanks in advance > >Katya Prince There is an Ortho product that selectively kills poison ivy. It comes in an aeorsol can, and probably other forms as well. I'm not sure what other types of plants it affects, but you can check the label. Vince From peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com Sat Aug 28 01:31:54 EDT 1993 Article: 167 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com!peters From: peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters x678) Subject: Re: poison ivy References: <19446@news.duke.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 17:44:02 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Research Triangle Park, NC Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com Message-ID: <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 18 In article <19446@news.duke.edu> princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) writes: > >I just moved into a new house with a bed of ivy (english?) in the back. >The problem is that there is poison ivy in there too. Any ideas on how to >get rid of the poison variety with minimal damage to the other kind? > >Thanks in advance > >Katya Prince I'd try sprying a few applications of roundup on the leaves of the poison ivy. Believe me, English ivy is one of the most resilient and hardy plants i've ever seen. I have all I can do to control it and prevent the stuff from overtaking every tree and any other structure on my property. It won't be bothered significantly by the roundup. If you're still worried, get a cardboard box and cut a slot on one side. Slide the plant through the slot (taking the obvious precautions), then give a good dose of the herbicide. From sasmmp@termite.unx.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:31:55 EDT 1993 Article: 168 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmmp From: sasmmp@termite.unx.sas.com (Meg Pounds) Subject: Re: poison ivy Originator: sasmmp@termite.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 15:45:35 GMT References: <19446@news.duke.edu> <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: termite.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 35 In article <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com>, peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters x678) writes: >In article <19446@news.duke.edu> princek@bio2.acpub.duke.edu (Katya Prince) writes: >> >>I just moved into a new house with a bed of ivy (english?) in the back. >>The problem is that there is poison ivy in there too. Any ideas on how to >>get rid of the poison variety with minimal damage to the other kind? >> >>Thanks in advance >> >>Katya Prince > >I'd try sprying a few applications of roundup on the leaves of the poison >ivy. Believe me, English ivy is one of the most resilient and hardy plants >i've ever seen. I have all I can do to control it and prevent the stuff >from overtaking every tree and any other structure on my property. It >won't be bothered significantly by the roundup. If you're still worried, >get a cardboard box and cut a slot on one side. Slide the plant through >the slot (taking the obvious precautions), then give a good dose of the >herbicide. After being infected several times lately, I finally found a rather large poison ivy plant disguising itself as a bush bean plant. It now has brothers and sisters growing also. Since it is in the thick of my bush beans I'm not crazy about using roundup. I'm extremely sensitive to poison ivy so I'm not wild about just picking it with gloves on and it is too big for the 'bag over the hand trick'. Are the beans still OK to eat after growing around the ivy? Can I use roundup and still eat the beans? thanks for any advice, Meg Pounds -- From morel002@dukemc.mc.duke.edu Sat Aug 28 01:31:56 EDT 1993 Article: 169 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!news.duke.edu!dukemc.mc.duke.edu!morel002 From: morel002@dukemc.mc.duke.edu (Dave Moreland) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: stump removal Keywords: stump removal Message-ID: Date: 26 Aug 93 12:18:07 GMT Sender: news@news.duke.edu Organization: Duke University Medical Center Lines: 13 Nntp-Posting-Host: morel002.mc.duke.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev Final Beta #7] Hi Folks, any recommendations on how to remove the stumps of cut trees...? The trees were no more than 12" in diameter... I considered blowing them up -- no dynamite... I considered digging them up -- BIG root structure... What do you think...? dave moreland From sasjzs@vms.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:31:56 EDT 1993 Article: 170 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasjzs From: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com (Joseph Slater) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:58:33 GMT Reply-To: sasjzs@vms.sas.com References: Nntp-Posting-Host: falcon.unx.sas.com Organization: Or lack thereof Keywords: stump removal Lines: 23 In article , morel002@dukemc.mc.duke.edu (Dave Moreland) writes: |>Hi Folks, |> |>any recommendations on how to remove the stumps of cut trees...? Depends on what kind of tree and how big of a hurry you are in. If they aren't sweetgum, you can cut them off as close to the ground as possible. Then take an axe or maul (or I guess a drill would work) and put as many holes in the top of the stump as you can (to let in water.) It takes most stumps about a year to rot out. Sweetgums just put out new shoots. Pines rot the fastest Obviously not the solution if you want it gone now, but it certainly doesn't take as much effort as digging, and you're not likely to blow up your house either! Joe Slater sasjzs@vms.sas.com Mine opinion is just that. From sasdxp@yang.unx.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:31:57 EDT 1993 Article: 171 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasdxp From: sasdxp@yang.unx.sas.com (David M. Price) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasdxp@yang.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:17:34 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: yang.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Keywords: stump removal Lines: 47 In article , sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com (Joseph Slater) writes: |> If they aren't sweetgum, you can cut them off as close to the |> ground as possible. Then take an axe or maul (or I guess a |> drill would work) and put as many holes in the top of the |> stump as you can (to let in water.) It takes most stumps |> about a year to rot out. Sweetgums just put out new shoots. |> Pines rot the fastest |> |> Obviously not the solution if you want it gone now, but it |> certainly doesn't take as much effort as digging, and you're |> not likely to blow up your house either! Joe, thanx for the info. A friend and I just bought a parcel of land, part of which was cleared about a year ago for timber, and the trees are coming back fast. We would like to clear and keep clear part of it for a building site (an acre or more), and keep the way clear for a road to be built to there. The rest we'll just leave and let come back. How can we kill the (reemerging) trees in the areas we want clear? I've heard that you can obtain some really strong chemicals (industrial strength stuff that makes Roundup look like organic fertilizer). If we could kill the reemerging trees before they get too big, then the new shoots would/die/rot and we could proceed with some sort of stump removal plan. Does anybody know about such chemical 'tree-killers' and where they might be obtained? (I know, not the most ecologically correct way to do things). Thanks, David -- David Price | "This is only a test: this is not a real (sasdxp@unx.sas.com) | life. If this had been a real life you | would have been given instructions." SAS Institute Inc. Cary, NC USA 27513-2414 From sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:32:01 EDT 1993 Article: 172 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:36:24 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Keywords: stump removal Lines: 13 I bought some stump remover at Fairview (Holly Springs Rd, between Penny Rd and 1010) but I haven't used it yet. You drill a hole and pour it in. It is supposed to accelerate decomposition and eliminate new growth. It was $3 a bottle, but I can't say how much it will treat yet. It came recommended (by the people who sell it ;-) -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com From sasjzs@vms.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:32:02 EDT 1993 Article: 173 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasjzs From: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com (Joseph Slater) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:44:59 GMT Reply-To: sasjzs@vms.sas.com References: Nntp-Posting-Host: falcon.unx.sas.com Organization: Or lack thereof Keywords: stump removal Lines: 35 In article , sasdxp@yang.unx.sas.com (David M. Price) writes: |> |> |>How can we kill the (reemerging) trees in the areas we want clear? You can always bush hog 'em. Or have someone do it periodically since most of us don't have a tractor and bush hog laying around. Have it done two or three times a year. Don't know how much someone would charge. If you have big stumps (or alot of them) in the area you want clear, it may be better to hire someone with a bulldozer to go ahead and take your stumps out and haul them away and grade the area where you want the house and road. This essentially means clearing it now, using the bush hog to keep down the weeds till you're ready to deal with the land. I makes the mowing easier if you don't have to dodge stumps with the tractor. It also gives the land a chance to heal before bringing in the construction crew. For that matter, you could even go ahead and plant grass. You would still need to bush hog it, but less landscaping to do later, although you would probably need to do the grass over if you want a yuppie yard. |> |>I've heard that you can obtain some really strong chemicals I've also (I think) seen some kind of enzime you pour on the stump which will hasten the rotting process, but I've never used it nor do I remember when or where I saw the ads. Anyone else ever used the stuff? Joe Slater sasjzs@vms.sas.com Mine opinion is just that. From sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:32:03 EDT 1993 Article: 174 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmzc From: sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com (Ming Chang) Subject: wanted: big ceramic flower pot Originator: sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 17:53:10 GMT Distribution: triangle Nntp-Posting-Host: ohm.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 9 I am looking for a big ceramic flower pot which must be bigger than 22 inches in diameter. If you have one and want to sell, please E-mail to me. My E-mail address is sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com , and phone number is 677-8000 ext. 6879. Thanks, Ming Chang From sasjsh@basil.unx.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:32:04 EDT 1993 Article: 175 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasjsh From: sasjsh@basil.unx.sas.com (Joseph O. Hines Jr.) Subject: Re: stump removal Originator: sasjsh@basil.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 18:24:16 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: basil.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Keywords: stump removal Lines: 82 In article , sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com (Joseph Slater) writes: |> |> In article , |> sasdxp@yang.unx.sas.com (David M. Price) writes: |> |> |> |> |> |>How can we kill the (reemerging) trees in the areas we want clear? |> |> You can always bush hog 'em. Or have someone do it periodically |> since most of us don't have a tractor and bush hog laying around. |> Have it done two or three times a year. Don't know how much |> someone would charge. |> |> If you have big stumps (or alot of them) in the area you want clear, |> it may be better to hire someone with a bulldozer to go ahead and |> take your stumps out and haul them away and grade the area where |> you want the house and road. This essentially means clearing it |> now, using the bush hog to keep down the weeds till you're ready |> to deal with the land. I makes the mowing easier if you don't have |> to dodge stumps with the tractor. It also gives the land a chance |> to heal before bringing in the construction crew. For that matter, |> you could even go ahead and plant grass. You would still need to |> bush hog it, but less landscaping to do later, although you would |> probably need to do the grass over if you want a yuppie yard. |> |> |> |> |>I've heard that you can obtain some really strong chemicals |> |> I've also (I think) seen some kind of enzime you pour on the |> stump which will hasten the rotting process, but I've never |> used it nor do I remember when or where I saw the ads. Anyone |> else ever used the stuff? |> |> Joe Slater |> sasjzs@vms.sas.com |> Mine opinion is just that. Have you thought about grinding the stumps down? I cut down a pine (14in diameter) last year and then had it ground down. I believe the name of the place was B&B Stump Removal Service (467-8413). I think they did a great job for a good price. The more stumps that you have removed the cheaper it gets (per stump that is ;-) ). I believe that they were going to charge me $50 to do the job but since they were goint to be in the area anyway they only charged $25. Nice people. I think this should be much prefered over chemicals that ALWAYS do more that just kill or rot the tree. It scares me just thinking about all that "stuff" seeping into our water supply. If you do use chemicals (and I hope you choose not to) be careful not to breathe the fumes or get any on your skin! (Geeze I'm starting to sound like my paents 8-0 ). Thanks Joe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Joe Hines | sasjsh@unx.sas.com | "ack ack... pffft!" - Bill The Cat SAS Institute | From sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com Sat Aug 28 01:32:04 EDT 1993 Article: 176 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmzc From: sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com (Ming Chang) Subject: How big the pot do I need? Originator: sasmzc@ohm.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 20:54:19 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: ohm.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 11 I bought an Alberta Spruce and plan to plant in a pot. The tree can tolerate very low temperature(-40~-50F), but I don't know how big the pot I need to prevent form being totally frozen and that might kill the roots. The tree is only 3 feet tall now and might grow to 6~8 feet. Any information will be appreciated. Thanks, Ming Chang From kes@acpub.duke.edu Sat Aug 28 01:32:05 EDT 1993 Article: 177 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!news.duke.edu!acpub.duke.edu!kes From: kes@acpub.duke.edu (Ken Strayhorn Jr.) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Roses Summary: what to do now Keywords: fungus Message-ID: <19632@news.duke.edu> Date: 27 Aug 93 12:51:09 GMT Expires: 30 Sep 93 04:00:00 GMT Sender: news@news.duke.edu Distribution: triangle Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C. Lines: 16 Nntp-Posting-Host: teer1.acpub.duke.edu Howdy gang Well, it's been a tough year for roses, hasn't it? Between the heat and the drought I have managed to keep my two beds fairly healthy, but that cool, damp spell a few weeks ago brought a dose of black spot with it that swept through one bed and has removed all the leaves from four of the bushes, despite repeated application of Funginex. I've never had fungus get this far. The roses are putting out new shoots at the top, so I know things are relatively OK, but should I cut the bushes back? They look awful forlorne standing there, nude except for a few leaves and flowers at the very top. All suggestions gratefully received Ken Strayhorn kes@acpub.duke.edu From mcohen@bnr.ca Sat Aug 28 01:32:07 EDT 1993 Article: 178 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!bnr.ca!mcohen From: mcohen@bnr.ca (Matt Cohen P785) Subject: Goldfish pond Message-ID: <1993Aug27.152442.28107@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP Distribution: triangle Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 15:24:42 GMT Lines: 8 I am moving to a house which has an outdoor goldfish pond, and having no idea how to care for one, I would like to ask for help/suggestions/suppliers Does anyone have any experience good or bad with specific fish/plants/chemicals, etc. Any information would be appreciated!! From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!wolves!circle!lance Sat Aug 28 23:43:55 EDT 1993 Article: 179 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!wolves!circle!lance From: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Re: poison ivy Message-ID: <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> Date: 27 Aug 93 05:28:56 GMT References: <19446@news.duke.edu> <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com> Organization: The Full Circle - Raleigh NC - DOS/Waffle 1.65 Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: rusnews v1.05 peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters x678) writes: > I'd try sprying a few applications of roundup on the leaves of the poison > ivy. Believe me, English ivy is one of the most resilient and hardy plants > i've ever seen. I have all I can do to control it and prevent the stuff > from overtaking every tree and any other structure on my property. It > won't be bothered significantly by the roundup. If you're still worried, This is the first plant I have ever heard of that won't succumb to Roundup. That stuff kills just about anything vegetable it touches. lance -- The Full Circle Domain: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown) [ preferred ] Bangs: ...!wolves!circle!lance PGP Public key block available upon request From Kathleen_Van_Horn@grace.bah.rochester.ny.us Sun Aug 29 00:08:56 EDT 1993 Article: 21632 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!amusing!grace!Kathleen_Van_Horn From: Kathleen_Van_Horn@grace.bah.rochester.ny.us (Kathleen Van Horn) Subject: Re: [Q] Orchid Mailing List Newsgroups: rec.gardens References: X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] Message-ID: Date: 21 Aug 93 23:07:55 EST Organization: Graceful Boot BBS (send replies to User_Name%grace@moscom.com) Lines: 28 Klaus S. Lam (h8600484@hkuxa.hku.hk) wrote: : Can anyone provide the detail of the orchid mailing list : orchids@scuacc.scu.edu : I saw it in a posting about 2 weeks ago and I would like : to know how can I subscribe to it. : Thanks. : -Klaus That's the address to post a note to the orchids newsletter once you've already subscribed, but it's not the address to request a subscription from. To subscribe: send a message to MAILSERV@scuacc.scu.edu -- the first line of the message should consist of the words SUBSCRIBE ORCHIDS. That's all you need! Then, once you're subscribed, the address you gave above is the one to send a public posting to, for inclusion in the newsletter mailings. Hope this helps! -- Kathleen Van Horn From photo@matt.ksu.ksu.edu Sun Aug 29 00:10:18 EDT 1993 Article: 21437 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu!news From: photo@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Murray Ryan Pickard) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.aquaria Subject: Re: Plant Lighting Questions Date: 19 Aug 1993 09:51:26 -0500 Organization: Kansas State University Lines: 22 Message-ID: <25041eINN8av@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> References: <1993Aug17.205606.1285@bmers95.bnr.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:21437 rec.aquaria:23091 bhaskar@brtph181.bnr.ca (Shaji Bhaskar) writes: >Recently, there has been some interesting discussion in the aquaria >newsgroups about the kind of lighting that plants need. >Some articles appearing in hobbyist magazines seem to suggest that the >color spectrum of the light is not really important. They claim that >the original experiments that showed that red and blue colors were >best for photosynthesis were done on algae, and that they do not apply >to higher plants. terrestrial or aquatic. >If this is true, we who grow plants under artificial lighting could >save ourselves a bundle just by using ordinary $0.99 fluorescent bulbs >instead of expensive metal halide, wide spectrum and plant lights. >Is there any hard evidence one way or the other? >Shaji. In the indoor plants and flowers class I took a year ago, the instructor recommended using one warm and one cool light in a two tube fixture to get the same results with plants as when buying 'grow lights' at $10 each. Also recommended changing the bulbs every 6 mths or so. Murray Pickard aka photo@matt.ksu.edu From stngiam@athena.mit.edu Sun Aug 29 00:10:47 EDT 1993 Article: 21511 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!stngiam From: stngiam@athena.mit.edu (Shih-Tung Ngiam) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.food.cooking Subject: Re: Harvesting Sunflower Seeds Date: 21 Aug 1993 00:09:10 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bolognese.mit.edu In-reply-to: hypes@boi.hp.com's message of Thu, 19 Aug 1993 15:04:09 GMT Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:21511 rec.food.cooking:55670 The biggest problem is probably keeping the bugs, squirrels and birds from eating everything before you harvest the seeds. Some people recommend covering the flowers with paper bags or panty hose to prevent pests from getting in, but then you wouldn't have a beautiful row anymore :-(. Cut off the heads after they have dried on the plant, or cut them off and dry them indoors, then rub off the seeds. Preparing the seeds for planting next year is trivial. We have had sunflowers come up spontaneously for at least three years in our community garden, so you will probably find sunflowers popping up next spring at the same spot next year. People here have also had good luck transplanting sunflower seedlings, so you could even just move any which pop up next year. To prepare seeds for planting, though, just remember not to cook some from this year's harvest and keep them for next year. I just roasted the seeds I harvested last year. Probably you could just fry them over a high fire in a wok with just a drop of oil added. Shih Tung Chem E Best l'il Tech School in Cambridge From bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca Sun Aug 29 00:12:01 EDT 1993 Article: 21497 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: Cover crop info? Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 20:19:26 GMT Lines: 52 In article pwyc@cbnewse.cb.att.com (peter.w.chen) writes: >Any advice on growing a green manure crop here in suburban Chicago (zone 5)? I >would prefer a legume; perhaps one variety that can be undersown so it grows >beneath another crop, and one that can be grown over the winter. I don't mind >if the cover crop dies over the winter - saves me some work in the spring, >but if it's winter hardy, should not be too difficult to dig up in spring. For undersowing, I would recommend white clover. It stays short and leafy and the seed is easy to find, since people often use it when seeding a lawn. You can find it in garden centres, hardware stores etc. It's not difficult to kill with a hoe when you want to get rid of it, too. For winter cover cropping, I like oats. I'm not sure how far south you have to go for oats to survive winter, but in your climate and mine, it doesn't. You can plant from now on into the fall, it doesn't mind moderate cold or light freezes, but hard freezes will kill it and by spring it is easy to dig in. Grains have lots of fibrous roots which are very good to improve crumb structure in heavy soils. The current issue of Organic Gardening has an idea I'm going to try this year. You interplant overwintering veggies like spinach with oats, the oats freeze and mulch the spinach which survives and grows again as soon as the weather warms up. >Also, where can I get seeds for them? Thanks in advance for any info on this! If you don't have access to a farm store (feed 'n' seed), you can order cover crop seeds by mail order from several garden seed catalogs such as Johnny's and William Dam. If you can a find a place where people who raise pigeons, rabbits, and other urban livestock buy their feed, oats and other grains as well as vetch, field peas, buckwheat, etc. are often available. You could also try pet shops (good source of rapeseed and millet). Some wild bird seed is heavy on the oats, but also may include millets, wheat and other stuff. The kind that is mostly cracked corn is not of much use in this context. Another source is health food or bulk food stores, where you can find wheat, beans, whole peas, lentils, etc. Note that barley, oats, millet, and buckwheat for human consumption are almost invariably hulled and are not likely to germinate. I've got a theory that chicories can improve drainage in heavy soils because their roots seem to be able to penetrate anything and head straight down toward the center of the earth. I'm growing a patch of witloof chicory (the kind you dig up the roots and force in winter to get Belgian endive) and it's doing very well. I may try rotating a patch of this stuff through my garden over the years. The Italians seem to have dozens of kinds of chicory/radicchio/radichetta, and I've developed a taste for these very robust and cold-hardy veggies. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca Sun Aug 29 00:13:18 EDT 1993 Article: 21497 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: Cover crop info? Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 20:19:26 GMT Lines: 52 In article pwyc@cbnewse.cb.att.com (peter.w.chen) writes: >Any advice on growing a green manure crop here in suburban Chicago (zone 5)? I >would prefer a legume; perhaps one variety that can be undersown so it grows >beneath another crop, and one that can be grown over the winter. I don't mind >if the cover crop dies over the winter - saves me some work in the spring, >but if it's winter hardy, should not be too difficult to dig up in spring. For undersowing, I would recommend white clover. It stays short and leafy and the seed is easy to find, since people often use it when seeding a lawn. You can find it in garden centres, hardware stores etc. It's not difficult to kill with a hoe when you want to get rid of it, too. For winter cover cropping, I like oats. I'm not sure how far south you have to go for oats to survive winter, but in your climate and mine, it doesn't. You can plant from now on into the fall, it doesn't mind moderate cold or light freezes, but hard freezes will kill it and by spring it is easy to dig in. Grains have lots of fibrous roots which are very good to improve crumb structure in heavy soils. The current issue of Organic Gardening has an idea I'm going to try this year. You interplant overwintering veggies like spinach with oats, the oats freeze and mulch the spinach which survives and grows again as soon as the weather warms up. >Also, where can I get seeds for them? Thanks in advance for any info on this! If you don't have access to a farm store (feed 'n' seed), you can order cover crop seeds by mail order from several garden seed catalogs such as Johnny's and William Dam. If you can a find a place where people who raise pigeons, rabbits, and other urban livestock buy their feed, oats and other grains as well as vetch, field peas, buckwheat, etc. are often available. You could also try pet shops (good source of rapeseed and millet). Some wild bird seed is heavy on the oats, but also may include millets, wheat and other stuff. The kind that is mostly cracked corn is not of much use in this context. Another source is health food or bulk food stores, where you can find wheat, beans, whole peas, lentils, etc. Note that barley, oats, millet, and buckwheat for human consumption are almost invariably hulled and are not likely to germinate. I've got a theory that chicories can improve drainage in heavy soils because their roots seem to be able to penetrate anything and head straight down toward the center of the earth. I'm growing a patch of witloof chicory (the kind you dig up the roots and force in winter to get Belgian endive) and it's doing very well. I may try rotating a patch of this stuff through my garden over the years. The Italians seem to have dozens of kinds of chicory/radicchio/radichetta, and I've developed a taste for these very robust and cold-hardy veggies. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From yen@stsci.edu Sun Aug 29 00:13:48 EDT 1993 Article: 21552 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!asuvax!ncar!noao!stsci!yen From: yen@stsci.edu (Felix Yen) Subject: Re: Cover crop info? Message-ID: <1993Aug22.221909.18580@stsci.edu> Sender: news@stsci.edu Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute Distribution: na Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1993 22:19:09 GMT Lines: 38 Beverly Erlebacher (bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca) writes: > For undersowing, I would recommend white clover. It stays short and > leafy and the seed is easy to find, since people often use it when > seeding a lawn. You can find it in garden centres, hardware stores > etc. It's not difficult to kill with a hoe when you want to get rid > of it, too. I'm a big fan of white clover too. Its roots go quite deep and seem to prevent weeds from getting much of "foothold." I find myself not having to worry about where I grasp a weed; they seem quite willing to be pulled up and composted. Also, it's extremely cheap, is a legume, and easy to keep neat. > I've got a theory that chicories can improve drainage in heavy soils > because their roots seem to be able to penetrate anything and head > straight down toward the center of the earth. I'm growing a patch > of witloof chicory (the kind you dig up the roots and force in winter > to get Belgian endive) and it's doing very well. The Ecology Action (Bountiful Gardens) catalogue entry for agricultural chicory (Cichorium intybus): This is a very valuable deep-rooting plant similar in appearance and size to Witloof Chicory, but is not edible and serves solely as a green manuring crop. It is used chiefly along with clovers and grasses, but can be used entirely on its own as a soil restorer. It is used principally on poor or light land that has been exhausted. Its deep tap roots will bring minerals to the surface leaving the soil in a friable state. They describe this plant as being heat tolerant and seem to prefer fodder radish (Raphanus sativus) or agricultural mustard (Synapsis alba) for cooler weather. Felix yen@stsci.edu From peterm@dtc.hp.com Sun Aug 29 00:14:15 EDT 1993 Article: 21508 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!peterm From: peterm@dtc.hp.com (Sweet Pete) Subject: unusual grape varieties Sender: news@news.dtc.hp.com ((Network News admin)) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 23:26:31 GMT Distribution: usa Nntp-Posting-Host: aoraki.dtc.hp.com Organization: Where No Man Has Gone Before Lines: 17 Does anyone know anything about any of the following grape types? These are "ornamental" grapes in that they don't produce mature fruit but give nice shade. I'd like to know if they are obtainable in the US. "Vitis Vinifera 'Alicante Bouchet": A deciduous tendril climber from West Asia, with the typical 3 or 5 lobed green leaves but becoming intensly crimson in autumn etc etc." There are three species in the ornamental grape genus ( vitis ) They are: Vitis amurensis ... climber suitable for walls Vitis coignetiae ... crimson glory vine...Japan Vitis vinifera. -- Peter C. Maxwell, ARPA: peterm@dtc.hp.com Hewlett-Packard Company, 5301 Stevens Creek Blvd, MS 53U/36, UUCP: ..!hplabs!aoraki!peterm Santa Clara, CA 95052-8059 (408) 553 2512 From krogers@javelin.sim.es.com Sun Aug 29 00:14:57 EDT 1993 Article: 21637 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!orca.es.com!cnn.sim.es.com!moons.sim.es.com!not-for-mail From: krogers@moons.sim.es.com (Keith Rogers) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Tropical catalogs Date: 23 Aug 1993 20:22:57 -0600 Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah Lines: 15 Sender: Keith Rogers Message-ID: <25bu21$kod@moons.sim.es.com> References: Reply-To: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com NNTP-Posting-Host: moonsgw.sim.es.com forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric J. Forbis) writes: >Could anyone recommend tree/plant/vines gardening catalogs from >Amazonian Central America (Brazil, Columbia, etc.)? Look in Gardening by Mail. > I'd like to dedicate a >corner of my garden to rain forest species. The mail path shows you to be at the Univ of Minnesota. What part of your garden can accomidate tropical plants? -- Keith Rogers krogers@moons.sim.es.com From lenadams@mojave.win.net Sun Aug 29 00:16:10 EDT 1993 Article: 21826 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!witch!mojave!lenadams Newsgroups: rec.gardens Message-ID: <261@mojave.win.net> References: Reply-To: lenadams@mojave.win.net (Lenadams Dorris) From: lenadams@mojave.win.net (Lenadams Dorris) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:41:54 GMT Subject: Re: REQUEST: Olive processing Lines: 16 In article , David G. Epstein (octopus@netcom.com) writes: > > How do I process olives grown on my olive tree, preferably >Kalamata-style. Any ideas? > There's a USDA pamphlet on this your local librarian can track down (sorry, can't find mine so I don't know the number.) The San Berdu County Cooperative Extension should also be able to help, as well as the Ornamental Hort Department at UC Riverside. Hope this helps. Len lenadams william dorris |"The suddenness of the leap from hardware las vegas, nevada, usa | to software cannot but produce a period | of anarchy and collapse, especially in vegas@well.sf.ca.us | the developed countries." lenadams@mojave.win.net | -Marshall McLuhan From ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca Sun Aug 29 00:17:04 EDT 1993 Article: 21721 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ae684 From: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Subject: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Organization: The National Capital Freenet Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 15:16:34 GMT Lines: 19 What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. What have been yours? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Best plant: Worst plant: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- John -- From SysAdmin Sun Aug 29 00:17:11 EDT 1993 Article: 21723 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!yeshua.opl.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!target!tching From: tching@target.uucp (Tracy Ching ) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug25.160415.11042@csus.edu> Sender: news@csus.edu Organization: cdwr References: Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 16:04:15 GMT Lines: 12 In article ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: > >What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Sacramento > Best plant: Spurge & Oxalis >Worst plant: Azalia (died) :-( (my wife is gonna kill me for that one) >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >John Tracy. From kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil Sun Aug 29 00:17:19 EDT 1993 Article: 21724 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!cs.umd.edu!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!kday From: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <42284@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 25 Aug 93 16:15:52 GMT References: Reply-To: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day) Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD Lines: 25 In rec.gardens, ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: >What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in >different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've >been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? >Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > >What have been yours? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Point of Rocks, Maryland Best plant: Brocolli, cucumbers, carrots, onions (sorry, couldn't pick just one) Worst plant: Cauliflower ----------------------------------------------------------------------- K. Scott Day Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center Code 1252 Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * "The point to remember is that what the government gives * it must first take away." * -John S. Coleman ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gwv@eastrg2.cray.com Sun Aug 29 00:17:26 EDT 1993 Article: 21752 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!raistlin!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug25.151421.11496@walter.cray.com> Lines: 21 Sender: gwv@eastrg2 (George Vandenberghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: eastrg2-gate.cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: <42284@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 25 Aug 93 15:14:20 CDT City Beltsville MD. (Washington DC area) Worst plant Tomatoes (severe heat damage), pole snap beans, Gladiolas (heat and drought damage), eggplant (flea beetles) roses (heat and japanese beetles) Best plant Early Cantaloupes (July 11 ties my 1991 record) Decent performers, early tomatoes (before they declined), sweetcorn, peas, pole limas (pods had set before the really bad heat hit.) Still hopefuls. Corn crops # 11, 12, and 13, late cantaloupes, fall pole beans. fall strawberries (Tristar) Oct 1 plowing prevents any fall gardening at my rented space and the 60' sweetgum 30' south of my home garden shades that out in fall. From cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu Sun Aug 29 00:17:35 EDT 1993 Article: 21726 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!oac4.hsc.uth.tmc.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Cyndi Smith) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: 25 Aug 1993 16:16:59 GMT Organization: MD Anderson Cancer Center Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: yggdrasil.mda.uth.tmc.edu In article , ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) wrote: > > > What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in > different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've > been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? > Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > > What have been yours? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Houston, TX, USA Best plant: Sweet Basil (two plants > 2 feet tall and about 1 foot diameter - led to far more basil than I can use/store/give away) Worst plant: Blue Lake Bush Beans (beautiful foliage but no flowers/beans) (also - bad luck with strawberries after early June attack by the dreaded slugs!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyndi Smith Computer Programmer Department of Biomathematics M. D. Anderson Cancer Center Phone: 713/794-4938 Fax: 713/792-4262 From drogers@epcot.spdc.ti.com Sun Aug 29 00:17:46 EDT 1993 Article: 21777 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!cauldron!epcot!drogers From: drogers@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Daty Rogers) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug25.235201.7661@spdc.ti.com> Sender: usenet@spdc.ti.com (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: epcot Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center References: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 23:52:01 GMT Lines: 22 >In article , ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca >(John Foulds) wrote: >> >> >> What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in > > City: Garland, TX, USA (Dallas `berb) > Best plant: Hamelia(sp) or Firebush 3ft around, some sort of periennal blue salvia 7ft around. Both in ground for several years now. > Worst plant: Any of my Lantana's. They just did not produce well this year. Also in ground several years. I'm wondering if my dirt is playing out. Any help on rejuvinating established periennal beds? Organic til I die... Daty Rogers 1905 to 1974, when cars had class, __o drogers@spdc.ti.com NOT computers! -\<, (214)995-9633 ___________three 67 Barracuda's_______(*)/(*) From kolling@adobe.com Sun Aug 29 00:17:51 EDT 1993 Article: 21727 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!decwrl!adobe!kolling From: kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug25.162834.9895@adobe.com> Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View References: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 16:28:34 GMT Lines: 14 In article ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: > >What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in City: south of San Francisco Best plant: roses Worst plant: tomatoes -- Karen Kolling kolling@adobe.com or kolling@netcom.com ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ From rreid@rreid.mentorg.com Sun Aug 29 00:17:58 EDT 1993 Article: 21772 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.mentorg.com!rreid!rreid From: rreid@rreid.mentorg.com (Richard Reid) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug25.230708.28887@news.mentorg.com> Sender: rreid@rreid (Richard Reid) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 23:07:08 GMT References: <1993Aug25.162834.9895@adobe.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: rreid.mentorg.com Organization: mentor Keywords: Followup-To: Lines: 9 City: Sherwood, Oregon Best Plant: Fava Beans Worst Plant: Squash -- Rick Reid rreid@.mentorg.com -- Mentor Graphics Corporation "The whole family was done in, ever since Uncle Forrest burnt the will" -my mother-in-law From neville@cs.washington.edu Sun Aug 29 00:18:03 EDT 1993 Article: 21775 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!batcomputer!cornell!uw-beaver!neville From: neville@cs.washington.edu (Dorothy Neville) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug25.234333.6477@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle References: <1993Aug25.162834.9895@adobe.com> <1993Aug25.230708.28887@news.mentorg.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 23:43:33 GMT Lines: 8 City: Seattle Washington Best: dandilions, bindweed, peas (til the enation hit of course) Pretty Good: potatoes, tomatoes (if all those romas would just ripen) Barely adequate: leeks, carrots Worst: Sunflowers, parsnips, beets Dorothy From jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sun Aug 29 00:18:09 EDT 1993 Article: 21729 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jhoskins From: jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 25 Aug 1993 16:58:03 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 7 Message-ID: <25g5mr$qs9@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu >What have been yours? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Columbus, Ohio, USA > Best plant: Spring Lettuce/Green Beans >Worst plant: Tomatoes (poorly developed plants, misshapen fruits, low yields) >----------------------------------------------------------------------- From dattore@buckhorn.scd.ucar.edu Sun Aug 29 00:18:15 EDT 1993 Article: 21739 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!asuvax!ncar!buckhorn.scd.ucar.edu!dattore From: dattore@buckhorn.scd.ucar.edu (Bob Dattore) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug25.174812.10656@ncar.ucar.edu> Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance) Organization: Scientific Computing Divison/NCAR Boulder, CO References: <25g5mr$qs9@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 17:48:12 GMT Lines: 7 >>What have been yours? >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >> City: Lafayette, Colorado (near Denver/Boulder) >> Best plant: Squash (acorn & butternut), Garden Mum (3' tall, 3' diameter) >>Worst plant: Tomatoes (not had a single ripe on yet!) >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- From clarke@watson.ibm.com Sun Aug 29 00:18:23 EDT 1993 Article: 21888 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!scifi!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!clarke From: clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Sender: news@yktnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 19:30:56 GMT Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM. References: <25g5mr$qs9@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: larios.watson.ibm.com Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center Lines: 6 >What have been yours? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Yorktown, NY > Best plant: Roma Tomatoes - two laundry baskets full (4 cu. ft. total) >Worst plant: All vine crops (watermellon/zuke/cuke/melon) - dead >----------------------------------------------------------------------- From af280@Freenet.carleton.ca Sun Aug 29 00:18:30 EDT 1993 Article: 21747 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!af280 From: af280@Freenet.carleton.ca (Sandra P. Hoffman) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: af280@Freenet.carleton.ca (Sandra P. Hoffman) Organization: The National Capital Freenet References: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 20:36:04 GMT Lines: 24 In a previous article, ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) says: > >What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in >different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've >been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? >Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > >What have been yours? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Ottawa > Best plant: Acorn Squash, with Pumpkin a close second >Worst plant: Cabbage and Cauliflower. (I fed a lot of cabbage worms this year.) >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >John > -- ---------------------- enough, or too much ---------------------------- sandra af280@freenet.carleton.ca ottawa canada usda zone5 agcan zone 4 From U14371@uicvm.uic.edu Sun Aug 29 00:18:39 EDT 1993 Article: 21765 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u14371 Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 15:41:58 CDT From: Message-ID: <93237.154158U14371@uicvm.uic.edu> Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 References: Lines: 24 In article , ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) says: > >What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in >different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've >been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? >Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > >What have been yours? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Oak Park, Illinois, USA Best plant: Wren House gourd, covers my metal toolshed Honorable mention: Bell peppers, never had so many (lots of rain, ground shaded by pumpkin) Worst plant: Cauliflower (earwigs)// Onions (many disappeared) Dishonorable mention: radishes (got one) >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >John (man of ideas) Hans Goeckner > > > From ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu Sun Aug 29 00:18:46 EDT 1993 Article: 21767 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!asuvax!ncar!kiowa.scd.ucar.edu!ilana From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug25.224816.6138@ncar.ucar.edu> Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance) Organization: NCAR/UCAR References: <93237.154158U14371@uicvm.uic.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 22:48:16 GMT Lines: 10 Where: Boulder, CO Best: Snow peas Worst: Basil, peppers Most exasperating: Tomatoes (5 *months* after starting from seed, they are finally getting ripe! At least I have some, though.) -- /\ \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu \______________________________________________________________________ From palay@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu Sun Aug 29 00:18:51 EDT 1993 Article: 21756 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu!palay From: palay@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu (Victoria Palay) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 25 Aug 1993 21:21:16 GMT Organization: MIT Spoken Language Systems Group Lines: 31 Sender: jrg@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu (Jim Glass) Distribution: world Message-ID: <25gl4c$7a4@GRAPEVINE.LCS.MIT.EDU> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: baloo.lcs.mit.edu In article , ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: |> |> What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in |> different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've |> been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? |> Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. |> |> What have been yours? |> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- |> City: |> Best plant: |> Worst plant: |> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- |> |> John |> |> |> |> |> -- City: Arlington, MA Best plant: Tomatoes (Golden Pearl, Sweet 100, Dona) we keep picking and picking! Worst plant: Cucumbers (Salad Bush) and eggplants (Bambino) Other: Roses (Europeana, Louise Odier, Heritage, English Garden, Tournament of Roses...) have been particularly lovely this year, probably because there haven't been many japanese beetles chewing them up due to the drought. Victoria Palay palay@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu From marks@arcturus.usc.edu Sun Aug 29 00:18:57 EDT 1993 Article: 21776 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!usc!not-for-mail From: marks@arcturus.usc.edu (Louise Marks) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 25 Aug 1993 17:08:43 -0700 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 30 Sender: marks@arcturus.usc.edu Message-ID: <25guuc$grl@arcturus.usc.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: arcturus.usc.edu ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: >What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in >different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've >been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? >Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. >What have been yours? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Monrovia, California (just east of Pasadena) > Best plant: Tomatoes, Tomatoes, and more Tomatoes - best I've ever grown, sweet bell peppers, too... oh and my zucchinis usually poop out by this time, but they're still going strong. Worrisome: I usually have eggplant coming out of my ears. This year I've had only 30% of my usual production. I'm worried but my friends and neighbors are relieved, I`m sure. >Worst plant: Melons... the vines just aren't growing this year. I'm disgusted. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- -Louise -- ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / Louise Marks Internet: marks@skat.usc.edu / / University of Southern California BITNET: marks@uscvm / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU Sun Aug 29 00:19:02 EDT 1993 Article: 21780 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!casbs!kathleen From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug26.004656.8378@casbs.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@casbs.Stanford.EDU (CASBS News Service) Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences References: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 00:46:56 GMT Lines: 22 In article ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: > >What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in >different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've >been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? >Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > >What have been yours? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Menlo Park, CA (on San Francisco Peninsula) Best plant: Zucchini (help! help! I fought the squash & the squash won.) Worst plant: Green pepper. One! only. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The tomatoes, basil, corn, spinach cucumber, and lettuce did very well, too. Carrots and fennel not so well, but OK. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Kathleen Much, Editor |E-mail: kathleen@casbs.stanford.EDU CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd. |Phone: (415) 321-2052 Stanford, CA 94305 |Fax: (415) 321-1192 From bbeer@stein2.u.washington.edu Sun Aug 29 00:19:07 EDT 1993 Article: 21833 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!stein2.u.washington.edu!bbeer From: bbeer@stein2.u.washington.edu (Bob Beer) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 27 Aug 1993 00:19:31 GMT Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 17 Message-ID: <25jjuj$rcd@news.u.washington.edu> References: <1993Aug26.004656.8378@casbs.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu >In article ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: >> >>What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in Well, despite the fact that summer never came to Seattle except for about a week in July, my tomatillos did remarkably well. I planted Territorial Seeds "Indian Strain." I also grew fava beans, which I planted last November, and got a bumper crop of in mid-June. Of cherry tomatoes, which are the most reliable here, I have one ripe so far. Lots of little green ones though...I think the exposure was partly to blame - West instead of South. In the flower department, I had good luck with mostly everything; the big difference this year was that things usually restricted to spring lasted much longer (I still have shirley poppies blooming, though they are getting a bit ratty). Bee balm is still in full bloom as well. From jerry_l_young@oakqm3.sps.mot.com Sun Aug 29 00:19:22 EDT 1993 Article: 21858 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!spsgate!mogate!risc.sps.mot.com!jyoungmac.sps.mot.com!jerry_l_young From: Jerry Young Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 27 Aug 1993 12:46:46 GMT Organization: Motorola RISC Apps Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <25kvnmINNs3l@talos4.sps.mot.com> References: <1993Aug26.164821.11718@newstand.syr.edu> <25ivumINN3gh@rave.larc.nasa.gov> <25jjuj$rcd@news.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: jyoungmac.sps.mot.com X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d24 X-XXMessage-ID: X-XXDate: Fri, 27 Aug 93 07:49:52 GMT What a great topic. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Audtin TX > Best plant: Phlomis (I bought 5 difft species through the mail and all but one are thriving through our very hot , rainless summer). Caesalpinia pulcherrima, Artemisia "Powis Castle", ZInnia linearis, Erythrina crista-galli >Worst plant: Decaisnea fargesii (I planted them late, and they keeled quickly -- I'll try again.) >----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry jerry_l_young@oakqm3.sps.mot.com From sehender@reed.edu Sun Aug 29 00:19:28 EDT 1993 Article: 21784 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.reed.edu!usenet From: sehender@reed.edu (Sarah Henderson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 26 Aug 1993 06:06:08 GMT Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon Lines: 13 Message-ID: <25hjsg$qn6@scratchy.reed.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: reed.edu City: Seattle, WA Best plant(all in window boxes): impatiens , basil, anaheim chile Worst(also window boxes): tomatoes(cherry, roma)--lots of fruit but all green so far, eggplant(bambino)--3 plants & 2 fruit so far, poblano chile--wimpy plants & few, small fruit. Last year the tomatoes were great. I attribute the problems to the fact that summer came late (August) and lasted 1 week. If the temperature stays mild enough I'm going to nurse these plants along until I get SOMETHING. --Sarah From cliff@seuss.cc.utexas.edu Sun Aug 29 00:19:39 EDT 1993 Article: 21795 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!seuss.cc.utexas.edu!cliff From: cliff@seuss.cc.utexas.edu (Clifford A. Wilkes) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 26 Aug 1993 13:23:31 GMT Organization: University of Texas at Austin Lines: 9 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1993Aug26.082144@seuss.cc.utexas.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: barbaloot.cc.utexas.edu In article , ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: |> |> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- |> City: Austin, Texas |> Best plant: habaneros (producing steadily since planting in April) |> Worst plant: tomatoes (two tomatoes from 6 plants, squirrels got 'em) |> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- <@> From dkpurks@telenet.com Sun Aug 29 00:19:45 EDT 1993 Article: 21805 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!telenet!dkpurks From: dkpurks@telenet.com Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <2057@telenet.telenet.com> Date: 26 Aug 93 14:30:07 GMT References: Sender: news@telenet.com Lines: 24 In article , ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: > > What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in > different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've > been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? > Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. I'm in Northern Virginia... The spring flowers did well...the Asian Lillies were very large and produced much better than they have in the past. The Delphiniums which are normally very prolific fizzled this year. As for this summer, I personally think nothing has done exceptionally well. I am particularly disappointed in the morning glories. I count on them to hide my fence and they just never filled in as they usually do. -- David Purks Alcatel Data Networks ..!uunet!telenet!dkpurks From jls@antares. Sun Aug 29 00:19:51 EDT 1993 Article: 21831 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.larc.nasa.gov!antares!jls From: jls@antares. (Jon Sweet) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 26 Aug 1993 18:38:14 GMT Organization: LESC/NASA/LaRC Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: <25ivumINN3gh@rave.larc.nasa.gov> References: Reply-To: jls@antares. NNTP-Posting-Host: antares.larc.nasa.gov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Hampton, VA Best plant: Long Leafed Pine (54" new growth and still growing!) Worst plant: Hibiscus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry...not enough room for veggies in a townhouse when you grow lots of tropicals! The Hibiscus are suffering from the heat and even though I water frequently, the leaves look healthy but not many flowers. In the spring, when there was plenty of rain, they bloomed like crazy. Now.... ================================================================ _| _/ _/ _/_/_/ _| All opinions expressed are _| _| _/ _/ _/ _| my own because nobody else _| _| _/ _/ _/_/_/ _| wants them! _| _| _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _| jls@antares.larc.nasa.gov _| _| _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _| Jon L. Sweet _| ================================================================ From imagelan@mv.mv.com Sun Aug 29 00:20:00 EDT 1993 Article: 21817 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!mv!imagelan From: imagelan@mv.mv.com (ImagineLan) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 References: Organization: MV Communications, Inc. Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 18:38:39 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 9 >What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in >different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've >What have been yours? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Andover, Massachusetts > Best plant: Blueberries, 66 quarts this week - going for a record harvest. >Worst plant: snow peas, pods what pods. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jareed@rodan.syr.edu Sun Aug 29 00:20:03 EDT 1993 Article: 21824 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!rodan.syr.edu!jareed From: jareed@rodan.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug26.164821.11718@newstand.syr.edu> Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY References: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 16:48:20 EDT Lines: 1 From ag297@Freenet.carleton.ca Sun Aug 29 00:20:09 EDT 1993 Article: 21855 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ag297 From: ag297@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rick Seeley) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: ag297@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rick Seeley) Organization: The National Capital Freenet References: Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 12:20:00 GMT Lines: 11 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Marvelville, Ontario, Canada Best plant: Tomatoes, Peppers, Corn, Carrots, Beets, Squash, Potatoes Worst plant: Lawn! It's August 27 and I'm still having to cut regularily! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John, thanks for a wonderful thread. I'm really enjoying it. -- Rick Seeley Marvelville, Ontario, Canada (613) 821-3151 From krueger@ssd.comm.mot.com Sun Aug 29 00:20:13 EDT 1993 Article: 21868 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!mrkos!krueger From: krueger@ssd.comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Reply-To: krueger@ssd.comm.mot.com Organization: Motorola LMPS Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 13:30:57 GMT Message-ID: <1993Aug27.133057.21462@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> References: Sender: news@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.1.54.204 Lines: 31 In article KpF@freenet.carleton.ca, ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: > >What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in >different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've >been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? >Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > >What have been yours? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: > Best plant: >Worst plant: >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >John > > > > >-- I live in a NW suburb of Chicago. MY BEST: BASIL, TOMATOES MY WORST: CORN, BELL AND HOT PEPPERS The peppers are growing really slow, just showing small peppers now. Kevin From Sun Aug 29 00:20:19 EDT 1993 Article: 21870 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!vela.acs.oakland.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: (Joel Burgess) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: 27 Aug 1993 15:26:35 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: <25l93b$mom@vela.acs.oakland.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.217.51.17 In article , ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) wrote: > > > What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in > different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've > been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? > Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > > What have been yours? Here in Detroit (Downtown condo garden on SE side of building): Best: Tomatoes started in Wall O' Waters: First tomatoe june 29) and Nicotiana Suavolens from T&M. Nicotiana has 6-7 foot candelabras of long white flowers (besides taking up a lot of space) Worst: I'll never grow spinach again. I planted it early, watered it frequently, and it bolted the first week in May. Peas (Wando) planted at the same time did great (except for the Slugs), lasting almost till the end of June. From Sun Aug 29 00:20:24 EDT 1993 Article: 21871 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!vela.acs.oakland.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: (Joel Burgess) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: 27 Aug 1993 15:35:18 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: <25l9jm$mom@vela.acs.oakland.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.217.51.17 In article , ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) wrote: > > > What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in > different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've > been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? > Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > > What have been yours? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City:Detroit MI (downtown condo garden on south wall) Best plant: Nicotiana Suavolens (spelling?) 6-7 Foot tall candelabras dripping with white tubular flowers. Also Tomatoes in Wall o' Water bore first ripe tomatoe on June 29 (last year I waited until August) Worst plant: Spinach. Planted early, bolted only a few weeks after it germinated. A whole seed packet yield a small, bitter pan of greens. Never again. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Burgess Detroit (Wayne State U.) From mpax@pbs.org Sun Aug 29 00:20:30 EDT 1993 Article: 21899 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!pbs.org!pbs.org!mpax From: mpax@pbs.org (COOL BEAN) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 27 Aug 93 15:00:27 EDT Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1993Aug27.150027.1@pbs.org> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cookie.pbs.org In article , ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: > > What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in > different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've > been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? > Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > > What have been yours? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Woodbridge, VA (20 miles So. of D.C.) Best plant: Lettuce Leaf Basil (and very yummy) Worst plant: Tomatoes and some flowers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Mary **This is not cultural. From greg.mccrory@ozonehole.com Sun Aug 29 00:20:35 EDT 1993 Article: 21912 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!tulane!theozone!greg.mccrory From: greg.mccrory@ozonehole.com (Greg Mccrory) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <2821.407.uupcb@ozonehole.com> Date: 27 Aug 93 19:54:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Ozone Online Operations, Inc. Reply-To: greg.mccrory@ozonehole.com (Greg Mccrory) References: Lines: 45 City: New Orleans, LA It's difficult to say what has done the best, probably the weeds :) But seriously, maybe I should list the top five in both catagories. Our climate this season: Long cool spring, March-June And then, Relentless heat! 96 degree days, 80 degree nights all summer! Near average rainfall (lots of rain :) ) Best plants: bananas (they always do well) azaleas (they do too) camelias (them too :) ) ferns (got more than I can handle) arrowleaf ivy (extra vigorous this season) Worst plants: geraniums (?) double begonias (dead!) hastas (no bloom and brown edges) roses (too humid) dazies (?) /--------------------------------------------------------------\ | Greg McCrory * Metairie, LA * greg.mccrory@ozonehole.com | \--------------------------------------------------------------/ --- * JABBER v1.2 * ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * SKYDIVE New Orleans! * (504)891-3142 * V.32bis/HST From tracy@xerox.com Sun Aug 29 00:20:41 EDT 1993 Article: 21904 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!rochester!rocksanne!news From: tracy@xerox.com (Bridget Tracy) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug27.203009.2865@spectrum.xerox.com> Date: 27 Aug 93 20:30:09 GMT References: Sender: news@spectrum.xerox.com Reply-To: tracy@xerox.com Organization: Xerox Corporation, PARC Lines: 8 City: SF Bay AREA Best plant: Silver Queen Corn (lots of corn!, but needed GALLONS of water) Basil did great too. Worst plant: Armenian Cucumber (they never set one) From wdahler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sun Aug 29 00:20:45 EDT 1993 Article: 21927 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!wdahler From: wdahler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Will Dahler) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 29 Aug 1993 00:42:19 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 12 Message-ID: <25ou1b$3o1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Fou lds) writes: >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Columbus (the big one) > Best plant: Snow peas, cabbage, and onions >Worst plant: Eggplant, potatoes, and sweet corn >----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- William Dahler wdahler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu The Ohio State University - University Systems Columbus, Ohio - USA From bk134@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Sun Aug 29 00:20:50 EDT 1993 Article: 21735 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bk134 From: bk134@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Keith William Bowes) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 25 Aug 1993 17:38:35 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 15 Message-ID: <25g82r$4hg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Cleveland, OH, USA Best plants: cantalopes (Ambrosia), asparagus (Jersey Knight), rhubarb. Worst plant: broccoli (by far much, much worse than usual) Mediocre plants: tomatoes (Better Boy, Celebrity), peppers (Bell Boy), onions (Walla Walla Sweet), garlic, shallots, corn (Honey N Pearl), potatoes (Yukon Gold, Kennebec) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mspitzer@sanger.bio.uci.edu Sun Aug 29 00:20:57 EDT 1993 Article: 21751 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!news.service.uci.edu!sanger.bio.uci.edu!mspitzer From: mspitzer@sanger.bio.uci.edu (Matt Spitzer) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Nntp-Posting-Host: sanger.bio.uci.edu Message-ID: <2C7BC70B.6654@news.service.uci.edu> Newsgroups: rec.gardens Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 14 References: <25g82r$4hg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: 25 Aug 93 20:09:47 GMT What have been yours? -------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Irvine, CA (south of LA) Best plant: Tomatoes (Better Boy, Celebrity), Thai chile, serrano chile, basil, red bellpepper (except they keep getting stolen), kohlrabi, garlic, broccoli Worst plant: Salsify (roots rotted), Okra (something done et it up) Poblano chile (just lost the will to live), bush beans (see okra), brussels sprouts (drowned) Awful slow: Eggplant, habanero (both making a late season comeback) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Spitzer From mhhealey@IASTATE.EDU Sun Aug 29 00:21:03 EDT 1993 Article: 21820 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!mhhealey From: mhhealey@IASTATE.EDU (Mary H Healey) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug26.140433@IASTATE.EDU> Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: mhhealey@IASTATE.EDU (Mary H Healey) Organization: Iowa State University References: <25g82r$4hg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 19:04:33 GMT Lines: 12 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Ames, IA, USA Best plants: false indigo, oregano, 'Moonbeam' coreopsis, Dahlberg daisy, Worst plants: sweet alyssum (drowned), spirea (lost in action - sucked right out of the ground), raspberries, roses, 'Early Sunrise' coreopsis, butterfly weed ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mg@pacman.WPI.EDU Sun Aug 29 00:21:10 EDT 1993 Article: 21798 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!pacman.WPI.EDU!mg From: mg@pacman.WPI.EDU (Martha Gunnarson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 26 Aug 1993 12:28:46 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 10 Message-ID: <25ia9u$am1@bigboote.WPI.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.wpi.edu > City: Oxford, MA (Central Mass., south of Worcester) > Best plant: Volunteer Watermelon!, Lemon Boy, Super Sweet 100 tomato >Worst plant: Cucumbers, Zucchini [only 1 6" zuke so far 8-( ] Martha Gunnarson Technical Services Librarian Gordon Library Worcester Polytechnic Institute Worcester, MA 01609 mg@wpi.edu From sdevisse@healthy.uwaterloo.ca Sun Aug 29 00:21:15 EDT 1993 Article: 21806 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!watserv1!sdevisse From: sdevisse@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (S. De Visser) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: news@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca Organization: University of Waterloo References: <25ia9u$am1@bigboote.WPI.EDU> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 14:10:43 GMT Lines: 5 City: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada Best plant: Hydrangea, most flowers Worst plant: Tomatoes, just about everything else, Gladiolus Sandy DeVisser From dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu Sun Aug 29 00:21:18 EDT 1993 Article: 21807 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re:Your best in '93 Date: 26 Aug 1993 14:40:20 GMT Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT Lines: 28 Distribution: na Message-ID: <25ii0k$rcd@GRAPEVINE.LCS.MIT.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: im4.lcs.mit.edu >What is your best grower this year? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- City:Natick, MA (15 mi. west of Boston) Best plant:Nicotiana, Morning Glory, Viola (they just keep going and g..) Worst plant: Sweet dumpling squash (a woodchuck found it) Salpiglossis and Linum rubrum (planted 10" apart as per instructions. I should have planted them about 3" apart to fill in enough, and they are hardly producing any flowers. Not enough sun??? So-so: petunia was doing just great and would have been #1 except it suddenly stopped blooming. I did find green caterpillars and removed them and now it's starting to bloom again. We've had a VERY DRY summer which has at times been very hot and other times quite cool. Wierd weather! But hten New England weather is usually wierd. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --Jill -- A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | MILLER MICROCOMPUTER SERVICES | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm -0400(EDT)| Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | MMSFORTH: The cure for the common code.| 42 18'00.79" N, 71 22'27.68" W| From jerry_l_young@oakqm3.sps.mot.com Sun Aug 29 00:21:23 EDT 1993 Article: 21835 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!spsgate!mogate!risc.sps.mot.com!jyoungmac.sps.mot.com!jerry_l_young From: Jerry Young Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Date: 26 Aug 1993 19:22:09 GMT Organization: Motorola RISC Apps Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-ID: <25j2h1INNo5b@talos4.sps.mot.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: jyoungmac.sps.mot.com X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d24 X-XXMessage-ID: X-XXDate: Thu, 26 Aug 93 14:25:14 GMT In article Mark A. Breland, breland@mcc.com writes: >Worst plant: Cucumbers (they just won't do diddley!) Funny. This year we decided not to do vegetables, but a couple of cucumber plants volunteered out of the compost I used to plant an Erythrina herbacea. It's in a xeriscape part of our yard, but we got a dozen or so healthy cukes. Of course that was mostly before our 60+ rainless/dozen or so 100+ days. Jerry jerry_l_young@oakqm3.sps.mot.com From amt@linus.mitre.org Sun Aug 29 00:21:35 EDT 1993 Article: 21857 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!linus!linus.mitre.org!linus!amt From: amt@linus.mitre.org (Anne Tallant) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: news@linus.mitre.org (News Service) Nntp-Posting-Host: dunvegan.mitre.org Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 13:36:59 GMT Lines: 37 Bedford, MA (10 miles NW Boston) Best performers: Carnival vine tomatoes (only tomato I've ever had to fight the birds for), Celebrity vine tomatoes, Roma paste tomatoes (already five quarts tomato sauce - cooked down - earliest ever), Sugar Ann snap peas (early June), New Hampshire midget watermelons (earliest ever, July) Worst performers: Pickling cucumbers (cucumber beetles), pole snap beans, garlic and onions (early development stunted by cutworms), Decent performers: Black Beauty and Dusky eggplant, Georgia Jet sweet potato, butternut squash, early Spanish peanuts, Adzuki and Vermont Cranberry shell beans, Gypsy and Hungarian Wax sweet peppers This year was my 'great paste tomato runoff.' Early results show the Viva Italia and LaRossa paste tomatoes producing, but not as abundantly as the Roma's. Also, they seem to be less tolerant of this summer's heat and drought. All tomatoes grown in raised beds on IRT 76 plastic with a soaker hose beneath the plastic. This year's crop of potatoes (six varieties - Shepody, Yukon Gold, Red Gold, German Buttermilk, Red Dale, Early Ohio) is a big disappointment due to the heat and drought. However, I have to take most of the blame. I did not have enough soaker hose to lay into the potato beds (never needed it before this summer), so the potatoes did not get sufficient moisture. The vines died back early (mid-August, except for Shepody) and I had to go ahead and harvest. All the varieties produced healthy potatoes, they are just smaller than usual. As soon as the soil temperature drops below 60, garlic, onions, spinach, and lettuce will go in for overwintering. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Anne Tallant amt@linus.mitre.org From kat@netwise.com Sun Aug 29 00:22:01 EDT 1993 Article: 21782 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csn!utopia!kat From: kat@netwise.com (Kathleen Nosbisch) Subject: Best/Worst growers Message-ID: <1993Aug25.205853.28198@netwise.com> Organization: Netwise Inc. Boulder, CO Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 20:58:53 GMT Lines: 22 > What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been > successful in different parts of the country with the extreme weather > fluctuations we've been having. Has anything done unusually well this > summer? Unusually unwell? Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be > chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > > What have been yours? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Boulder, CO Best plant: Tomatoes, over 5 feet high, and zucchinis Worst plant: Bell peppers - flowering, but not producing ----------------------------------------------------------------------- kat -- *-------------------------------------------------------------------* Kathleen Nosbisch Netwise, Inc. Technical Writer 2477 55th Street kat@netwise.com Boulder, Colorado 80301 From tony@nexus.yorku.ca Sun Aug 29 00:22:06 EDT 1993 Article: 21794 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!nexus.yorku.ca!tony From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) Subject: Re: Best/Worst growers Message-ID: Sender: news@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca (USENET News System) Organization: York University References: <1993Aug25.205853.28198@netwise.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 13:10:46 GMT Lines: 6 Best : lawn grasses Worst : maize = corn (a bit odd, because maize is a grass) -- tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, North York, Canada. From barnettj@pookie.crd.ge.com Sun Aug 29 00:22:12 EDT 1993 Article: 21813 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.crd.ge.com!pookie!barnettj From: barnettj@pookie.crd.ge.com (Janet A Barnett) Subject: Re: Best/Worst growers Message-ID: Sender: usenet@crdnns.crd.ge.com (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: pookie.crd.ge.com Organization: GE Corp. Research & Development, Schenectady, NY Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:09:31 GMT Lines: 26 > What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been > successful in different parts of the country with the extreme weather > fluctuations we've been having. Has anything done unusually well this > summer? Unusually unwell? Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be > chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > > What have been yours? City: Pattersonville, NY (~20 miles west of Albany) Best plant: pickling cukes (pints and pints of bread and butter pickles, dills brining away, still more on the plants) eating cukes - oodles of 'em - "burpless" only when eaten in moderation ;-) Worst plant: tomatoes - would have been ok had the deer not knocked the stakes (and plants) down like dominoes lettuce - devoured by slugs Honorable Mention: sunflowers (huge) pumpkins (good jack o'lantern material) JAB -------- Janet A. Barnett barnettja@crd.ge.com From HF.SXM@forsythe.stanford.edu Sun Aug 29 00:22:17 EDT 1993 Article: 21760 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.opl.com!charnel!rat!decwrl!morrow.stanford.edu!morrow.stanford.edu!not-for-mail From: HF.SXM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sara MacGilvra) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Best & Worst Date: 25 Aug 1993 14:37:31 -0700 Organization: Stanford University Lines: 3 Sender: news@morrow.stanford.edu Message-ID: <25gm2r$luq@morrow.stanford.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu City: East side of San Francisco Bay Best: Roses Worst: Sweet Peas From naomi@anasazi.com Sun Aug 29 00:33:28 EDT 1993 Article: 21828 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!asuvax!ennews!anasaz!naomi From: naomi@anasazi.com (Naomi Walker) Subject: Best/Worst Plants Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 21:27:42 GMT Message-ID: <1993Aug26.212742.16092@anasazi.com> Sender: usenet@anasazi.com (Usenet News) Lines: 15 Place: Phoenix Arizona Most Successful Plants: Cantaloupe, tomatoes (cherry and roma), dill, corn cosmos, sunflowers, blue salvia, hawaiian blue eyes, marigolds, basil, vinca Biggest Disasters: cucumbers (lemon and green), onions, gladiolus -- Naomi Walker (aka N7FSA) naomi@anasazi.com Phoenix, Arizona To get the full value of joy, you must have someone to divide it with. ---Mark Twain From philb@cssc-woll.tansu.com.au Sun Aug 29 00:33:35 EDT 1993 Article: 21838 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!sol.ccs.deakin.edu.au!news.cs.uow.edu.au!picasso.cssc-syd.tansu.com.au!rutherford.cssc-melb.tansu.com.au!uranus.cssc-woll.tansu.com.au!orion.cssc-woll.tansu.com.au!not-for-mail From: philb@cssc-woll.tansu.com.au (Phil Brown) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Grafted Banksia Date: 27 Aug 1993 11:42:11 +1000 Organization: Telecom Australia - CSSC Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-ID: <25jopj$7kc@orion.cssc-woll.tansu.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: orion.cssc-woll.tansu.com.au Does anyone know of any info or research on grafting West Australian banksia on to either East coast rootstock or other proteacae species form Australia or elsewhere? I'm interested in giving it a go, and am looking for advice. Due to the limited success I have read about, it seems that "international" rather than native grafting may be an answer. And DNA matching may help! Philb From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Aug 29 00:34:57 EDT 1993 Article: 21866 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: The difference between a fruit & a veg Message-ID: <1993Aug27.101853.16032@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 27 Aug 93 10:18:53 -0500 References: <1993Aug27.130539.1835@linus.mitre.org> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 31 In article <1993Aug27.130539.1835@linus.mitre.org>, lkahn@mitre.org (Mr Squop) writes: > In article lorraine@latcs1.lat.oz.au > (Lorraine Gers) writes: >> I was taught in school, that all fruit have their seeds in the centre. > This >>is the case with apples, bananas, oranges and even tomatoes. etc.... >> >> >> > Except strawberries. Technically, the true fruit of a strawberry is the little "seed" on the outside of the red thing... The "seed" is a tiny, single-seeded fruit (look at it with a magnifier: it'll look like a tiny "snail"-- the "snail's head" is the stigma and style of the ovary). The red part you eat is a swollen receptacle -- the part of the flower to which the sepals, petals, stamens, pistils are attached.... re: Plant Tax class, terminology division... my students made it through the worst of the terms for describing vegetative parts of plants this week, in good spirits... They're doing fine, and they get a break on Tuesday when we start shredding flowers to compost in the interest of learning to write floral formulas, count carpels, etc. Then it's back to terminology on Thursday... I'm going to try to teach both inflorescence types AND fruit types... Something tells me Thursday will be dangerous-- they'll have been given about 250 terms in 2 weeks, AND there'll be ammunition handy for throwing... I guess I'd better make sure the tomatoes I use aren't rotten! ;-) Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From amz@cis.ohio-state.edu Sun Aug 29 00:37:34 EDT 1993 Article: 21623 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce From: amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: The Difference between a fruit and a vegetable Date: 23 Aug 1993 17:52:09 -0400 Organization: linguistics, here and there Lines: 51 Message-ID: <25be69INN1lt@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu Summary: it all depends in article den0@lehigh.edu (dean e. nelson) writes: >My daughter (age 5) told me her definition of fruits and vegetables: >"A fruit is sweet and tastes good, a vegetable doesn't taste good, but >it is good for you". I started to explain the difference between a fruit >and vegetable, and finally came to the conclusion that her definition >was about as good as any I could come up with. In other words, she would >classify items as fruits or vegetables about as accurately as I would. So, >what is the *real* method of classification? you should know better than to ask questions like this in front of linguists... the big point about classifications within some domain is that there can be many different ones, each intended for some different *purpose*. the classification of plants into a set of species (and then genera, families, etc.) is supposed to serve certain scientific purposes; the classification into annuals, tender perennials, herbaceous perennials, woody perennials, etc. serves another set of purposes, namely a practical one important to gardeners; the classification into ground covers, "flowers", leafy greens, root vegetables, herbs, shrubs, vines, trees, etc. serves a different set of gardener's purposes, having to do with what the gardener hopes to get out of the plants; identification handbooks often are organized by flower color; and so on. the same goes for plant parts. there is a classification for scientific purposes (involving things like petals, sepals, stems, leaves, stipules, roots, corms, bulbs, tubers, and - yes - fruits, meaning "the ovary and its adnate parts (if any)", to quote Hortus Third); this is the equivalent of descriptive anatomy for animals. then there is a classification according to what a people in a culture want to do with the parts. in our culture we use some plant parts as main courses in a meal or as accompaniments to a main meat course; these we call "vegetables" or "starches", depending on a further functional criterion. we use other plant parts as sweet accompaniments to a meal, especially as desserts; these we call "fruits". many "vegetables", in *this* taxonomy, are literally "fruits", in the scientific taxonomy (tomatoes, eggplants, and cucumbers, for instance). so...your daughter, at age 5, has a firm grasp of our culture's classification of plant parts (well, she doesn't really *like* "vegetables", but have some patience) and, quite understandably, no knowledge of the botanist's classifications (where the term "vegetable" has no place at all; it doesn't appear in Hortus Third). arnold, hoping this isn't too compressed From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Aug 29 00:37:57 EDT 1993 Article: 21628 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: The Difference between a fruit and a vegetable Message-ID: <1993Aug23.172747.15864@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 23 Aug 93 17:27:47 -0500 References: Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 19 In article , den0@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson) writes: > My daughter (age 5) told me her definition of fruits and vegetables: > "A fruit is sweet and tastes good, a vegetable doesn't taste good, but > it is good for you". I started to explain the difference between a fruit > and vegetable, and finally came to the conclusion that her definition > was about as good as any I could come up with. In other words, she would > classify items as fruits or vegetables about as accurately as I would. So, > what is the *real* method of classification? Well, your 5 year old came up with the same definition the Supreme Court did... but botanically, it's on shaky ground. To a botanist, a fruit is a matured ovary with any accessory parts (like sepals, hypanthium, etc.), while a vegetable is something edible derived from root, stem or leaf tissue. Gee, I get to teach this next week. With taste tests! Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From scd@atria.com Sun Aug 29 00:38:11 EDT 1993 Article: 21649 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!atria.com!argon!scd From: scd@atria.com (Steve Daukas) Subject: Re: The Difference between a fruit and a vegetable Message-ID: Sender: news@atria.com Nntp-Posting-Host: 192.88.237.65 Organization: Atria Software, Inc. X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] References: <1993Aug23.172747.15864@cobra.uni.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 12:11:46 GMT Lines: 33 klier@cobra.uni.edu wrote: : In article , den0@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson) writes: : > My daughter (age 5) told me her definition of fruits and vegetables: : > "A fruit is sweet and tastes good, a vegetable doesn't taste good, but : > it is good for you". I started to explain the difference between a fruit : > and vegetable, and finally came to the conclusion that her definition : > was about as good as any I could come up with. In other words, she would : > classify items as fruits or vegetables about as accurately as I would. So, : > what is the *real* method of classification? : Well, your 5 year old came up with the same definition the Supreme : Court did... but botanically, it's on shaky ground. The actual ruling from the US Supreme Court was in reaction to a case where taxes were being placed against certain fruits. Tomatoes are, in fact a fruit, but the growers in those days (circa 1900 I believe) argued that it was used not as a fruit, but as a vegatable and should be exempt from the tax. The USSC agreed that tomatoes were used as a vegetables and legally changed the classification of the tomatoe from fruit to vegatable in the US. Sorry I don't have the case number for reference - this is strickly from memory... Regards, Steve -- -------------------------------.--------------------------------------------. | Stephen C. Daukas | Internet: scd@atria.com | | Technical Marketing Manager | INternet: ...!uunet!gw!scd | | Atria Software, Inc. | CompuServe: 72420,2261 | | 24 Prime Park Way | Voice: (508) 650-5145 | | Natick, Ma. 01760 | Fax: (508) 650-1196 | `-------------------------------^--------------------------------------------' From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Aug 29 00:38:52 EDT 1993 Article: 21913 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: The Difference between fruit and seed and vegetable Message-ID: <1993Aug28.094635.16068@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 28 Aug 93 09:46:35 -0500 References: <2820.407.uupcb@ozonehole.com> Distribution: world Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 20 In article <2820.407.uupcb@ozonehole.com>, greg.mccrory@ozonehole.com (Greg Mccrory) writes: > I believe the simple answer is if it has seeds, it is a fruit > otherwise, it is a vegetable. Now if it _is_ a seed, then I'm > not sure what you'd call it. :) Well, yes, there are some one-seeded fruits that we call "seeds". For instance, corn "seed" or "grass seed" is a true seed with the ovary wall (the part that becomes the flesh of, say, a banana) adhering tightly to the entire surface of the seed. Botanists call that a "grain" or "caryopsis"*. Or consider "sunflower seeds" -- the true seed is the "meat" in the "shell", but the shell or husk is actually ovary wall-- fruit wall-- that's gotten hard. We call that an "achene**" (sometimes written "akene") -- it's a one-seeded fruit with the seed attached to the ovary wall at a single point. *pronounced carry-OP-sis ** ah-KEEN Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI [still practicing for Thursday's lecture ;-) ] From yourch@bnr.ca Sun Aug 29 00:39:26 EDT 1993 Article: 21819 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!linac!convex!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!bnr.ca!yourch From: yourch@bnr.ca (James Yourch P265) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug26.190022.271@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 19:00:22 GMT Lines: 63 City: Raleigh, NC Weather: Very Hot( 90 to 100 nearly every day ) and humid, very little rainfall since May, but plants were irrigated about 1" per week. This summer has been a challenge for gardeners. June '93 was the driest June ever recorded ( 0.3" ) and July '93 was the hottest month ever recorded and the driest July ever recorded in the history of weather measurement in Raleigh. Best Plants: Tomato: ( Early girl, Sweet 100, and OG50 ) All producing heavily and delicious Sweet 100 had no breaks in production. Early Girl and OG50 were not setting much fruit in July because of heat, producing well now though. Peppers: Habanero and Jalapeno, Excellent production of high quality fruit. India Hawthorn ( Raphiolepis indica ) Crepe Myrtle ( Lagerstroemia x fauriei 'Muskogee' ) Trailing Gardenia ( Gardenia jasminoides 'Radicans' ) As expected, these plants haved loved the heat Pink Meidland Rose Excellent flower and hip production, no diseases, insignificant Japanese beetle damage. Butterfly Bush ( Buddleia davidii ) Incredible vigor and flower production Sedum 'Autumn Joy' and 'Brilliant' These plants seem to do well no matter what the weather is like. Newly planted surprise performers: Big Blue Liriope ( Liriope muscari ) Planted in May in full sun and have thrived despite the heat, doubling in size and blooming well. Japanese Snowbell ( Styrax japonica ) - Planted last October. Grew from 5' tall and 3' wide to about 8' tall and 5' wide despite the heat, plant looks just as fresh as it did this spring. Talk about vigor. Dicentra 'Luxuriant' Planted in May. Foliage and flowers have looked good all season. This plant looks fragile, but it is not. Rebel Jr. Dwarf Turf-type tall fescue - Planted in May, has maintained dark green color in heat and drought. Worst Plants: Tree Peony - These plants have languished in the heat all summer, almost completely defoliated by now. Geum - Could not take the heat, one died and the other is languishing. Summersweet ( Clethra alnifolia 'Hummingbird' ) New transplant ( March '93 ), Wilted badly when I was on vacation and almost completely defoliated. Recovered and flowered well, but still looks pretty rough. Shasta Daisy - Trying to give these guys enough water to prevent wilting has been a challenge. Weeping Katsura tree ( Cercidiphyllum japonicum 'Pendula' ) Very beautiful this spring, but the heat has really bothered it this summer. Interestingly, the standard upright Katsura in my yard has done well. Jay From strauss@uncavx.unca.edu Sun Aug 29 00:39:48 EDT 1993 Article: 21876 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!balsam!unca!strauss From: strauss@uncavx.unca.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: RE; Best/worst in 93 Date: 27 Aug 93 12:56:09 EDT Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville Lines: 17 Message-ID: <1993Aug27.125609.1@uncavx.unca.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uncavx.unca.edu In Asheville, NC, the weather has been similar to Raleigh, but "less so." Not as hot, but one of the driest June-July periods recorded here. Worst producers: Green, bell peppers. Only a few plants have produced. Best: Everything else! Oddly, I'm giving away chili peppers, and jalapenos (the hottest ones I've ever had). Great for bush beans (even with Mexican bean beetles) and asparagus beans (the ants love 'em, too). It has been a banner year for flowwering plants: all the spring trees were exceptional, going into summer. We have some crepe myrtle here, and for once, they are covered with flowers. And last year we planted a few portulacas. Then we roto-tilled part of the back yard, and all the bare spots got portulacas this year! Bigger than last year, too. Bob Strauss Ramsey Library UNC-Asheville From ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca Sun Aug 29 00:39:57 EDT 1993 Article: 21882 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ae684 From: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Subject: YOUR BEST IN '93!!!! Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Organization: The National Capital Freenet Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 19:17:01 GMT Lines: 13 Wow! Over 50 responses already! They are still coming in so I'll wait another couple of days before summarizing into one file for upload here. Thank you everyone for taking the time. Think you'll all enjoy the results when it's completed. YT, John -- From Elizabeth.Molinaro@daytonoh.ncr.com Sun Aug 29 00:40:15 EDT 1993 Article: 21816 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub2!ciss!srdcom!news From: "Elizabeth.Molinaro" Subject: Re: Best in '93 Message-ID: Sensitivity: Personal Encoding: 16 TEXT Sender: news@srdcom.daytonoh.ncr.com (Net News Administrator) Conversion: Prohibited Organization: NCR Stakeholder Relations Conversion-With-Loss: Prohibited Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 19:40:09 GMT Lines: 16 My Best and Worst in '93 (Dayton, OH. Zone 5, mainly, sometimes shown as a Zone 6, following the Great Miami River valley --who knows? It's hot!) Best: Flat leaved parsley San Marzano tomotoes (grown from seed in garden) Roses: Rugosas, Grandifloras, and an Antique Worst: Eggplant Dill (tried 3 times to get some to grow. Dead after 2 days each time!) Sweet-peas Elizabeth Elizabeth.Molinaro@DaytonOH.NCR.COM From ua024@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA Sun Aug 29 00:40:24 EDT 1993 Article: 21898 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!camins.camosun.bc.ca!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!ua024 Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Hybridizers Message-ID: <1993Aug27.120348.889@camins.camosun.bc.ca> From: ua024@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Diane Whitehead) Date: 27 Aug 93 12:03:47 PDT Reply-To: ua024@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Diane Whitehead) Organization: The Victoria Freenet Association (VIFA), Victoria, B.C., Canada Nntp-Posting-Host: freenet.victoria.bc.ca Lines: 6 Does anyone know of an amateur hybridizers' organization? It is easy to find hybridizers of a few major types of plants - iris, daylilies, roses, rhododendrons - but what about the less popular plants? It would be nice to contact a fellow enthusiast. -- From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Aug 29 00:40:52 EDT 1993 Article: 21924 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Tomato diseases FAQ Message-ID: <1993Aug28.180055.16078@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 28 Aug 93 18:00:55 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 338 UNMODIFIED reposting of first draft I wrote earlier this summer. As always, comments welcome. Looks like late-season diseases are upon us again.... Kay klier@cobra.uni.edu Common tomato diseases and problems: General comments: there are many cultivars that are resistant to common tomato problems: often after a name you'll see a series of letters like "VFFNT", which means this cultivar is resistant to verticillium wilt, fusarium races 1 & 2, nematodes, and tobacco mosaic virus. These resistant cultivars are good choices if you must grow tomatoes in the same area year after year. If you can, rotate growing areas every 3 years, and don't grow related crops (eggplant, potato, pepper, in the same areas in your rotation). Practice good sanitation. Keep the weeds out, the rotten tomatoes and old plants picked up and composted, etc. If you smoke tobacco, both you and your tomatoes will be better off if you quit (tobacco mosaic virus is a major problem for the tomatoes), but if you must smoke or chew tobacco, wash your hands thoroughly before handling tomato plants. Finally, grow several cultivars of tomatoes. When you don't put all your eggs in one genetic basket, you stand a much better chance of getting a good harvest. Insects: Colorado Potato Beetles: Oval, hard-shelled adult beetle is about 1 cm (3/8") long, with alternating black and yellow stripes on wing case. Larvae are sluggish, red, humpbacked grubs with two rows of black spots on each side of the body. Foliage feeders, may strip plants if population is large. Control by 1ft of loose mulch under plants, interplanting with flax, marigolds, garlic, snap or bush beans. Eggplant and black nightshade (Solanum ptycanthemum = S. nigrum of American authors) are favored foods and can be used as trap or lure crops. Handpick adults and crush yellow eggs found on underside of leaves of tomatoes. Other controls: Bacillus thuringensis var. San Diego, Thripobius semiluteus, pyrethrins, or rotenone/pyrethrin mixtures. Corn earworm (=Tomato fruitworm, bollworm): More of a pest in the south... 3.5 cm (1.75 ") long green, brown or pink moth caterpillar with light stripes along sides and back. Eats holes in fruits and buds. Handpicking or rotenone for control, or pheromone traps, Bacillus thuringensis, ryania, or insecticidal oils. Cutworms: Several species, usually gray or brownish grubs up to 3 cm (1.5") long. Mainly a spring problem. Control: Clean cultivations, collars of plastic, tin, juice cans, or paper wrapped around stem at planting. Bacillus thuringensis. European Corn Borer: Occasional pest. Moves to tomatoes if nearby corn dies. Flea beetles: Many species, most notable for leaving small "pepper holes" in leaves. Garlic spray reputed to control the beetles. I've never had major damage from them. Psyllid yellows: A disease caused by feeding of tomato or potato psyllid nymphs, due to a toxin released in feeding. These look like fringed scales that change from yellow to orange to green. Older leaves thicken and roll upward at the base; veins may turn purplish. Younger leaves may curl. Plants may be dwarfed, stems and petioles may be skinny. Control by removing ground cherry and other solanaceous weeds. Tobacco Hornworm: Similar to tomato hornworm, but green and black horn. Same controls. Tomato Hornworm: Larvae of a species of Sphinx moth. Green caterpillar, to 6 cm (4") long, with white diagonal side stripes and a prominent red horn on the head. Handpick. Bacillus thuringensis will kill hornworms, but I do not recommend this: several species of Sphinx are pollinators of endangered native orchids, or are endangered themselves Braconid wasp parasites are becoming commercially available, again, I feel these should not be used because they are non-selective killers. Handpicking is easy and effective, or you can make exclosures of netting around plants. Dill makes a good trap crop. Rotenone and Trichograma wasps are other controls. Whitefly: Tiny, white flying insects that fly up to make a cloud when an infested plant is disturbed. Control: Insecticidal soaps, Encarsia formosa (a parasite), yellow sticky traps, row covers, insecticidal oils, or rotenone/pyrethrin mixtures. (You need at least 300 sq inches of sticky trap per 8 tomato plants.) Physiological Problems ("diseases" caused by culture and environment): Blossom drop: Usually caused by dry soils, and drying winds, but may be caused by sudden cold spells, heavy rains, N overdose, or heavy infections by bacteria or fungi. Blossom end rot: See Calcium deficiency below. End of fruit away from stem gets soft, mushy. Generally caused by a combination of drought and drown water availability, calcium mobilization problems. Cure: mulch to smooth out soil water availability; water in drought periods. See also Calcium deficiency below. Fruit crack: Surface cracks in fruits near stem end caused by rapid growth during periods of good moisture and high temperatures. Cracks can radiate around stem or encircle "shoulders" of tomato. May vary in depth. No cure, but even moisture (mulch!) will help prevent periods of slow and rapid growth. Pick fruits with rapidly developing cracks early (not fully reddened) to prevent Early Blight and other fruit rots. Leaf roll: Rolling begins on lower leaves and proceeds upwards until most leaves are affected. Plants may lose leaves, particularly on staked plants. Seems to be caused by heavy pruning or deep, close cultivation. Sunscald: Occurs when green tomatoes are exposed to sun, most commonly in hot, dry weather on plants with leaf spot diseases or other defoliation. Boron deficiency: Blackened areas at tip of stem, which is stunted. Abnormally bushy looking plants. Terminal shoots curl, yellow and die. Fruit of severely affected plants may darken and die in patchy patterns. Cure: a handful of borax (not boraxo soap!) worked into the soil around each plant. Calcium deficiency: Thick woody stems, slow growth, yellow upper leaves (not yellow lower leaves seen in N, P or K deficiency), weak, flabby plants. Blossom end rot of fruit. Cure: Correct Ca/Mg balance, (dolomitic limestone and a little Epsom salts help), mulch to retard plant water fluctuations that seem to bring on blossom end rot. Copper deficiency: Stunted root and shoot growth, blue-green curled, flabby leaves, few or no flowers. Manure is an easy cure; copper salts can be used with great caution (in too high a quantity, they can kill plants.) Bordeaux mixture applied at fungicidal rates will work. Iron deficiency: Spotted white areas on new leaves and upper parts of stem. New shoots may die if severely deficient. Apply chelated iron, dried blood, manure, or sewage sludge. Manganese deficiency: Very slow growth; light green leaves with dead patches ringed in yellow. Few flowers or fruit. Use manure. Nitrogen deficiency: Very slow growth of plants, followed by progressive pale green color moving from tip and young leaves back to more mature leaves. Leaves are small, thin, perhaps with purple veins. Stems eventually brown and dry off. Flower buds yellow and drop. Apply N immediately. Too much nitrogen: Rapid growth, with many bright, light green leaves; poor flowering and fruiting. Stop fertilizing immediately with N, add P and K. Phosphorus deficiency: Slow growth, purple tinged small leaves that feel fibrous. Fruit set delayed. Add P. Zinc deficiency: Very long, narrow, yellowed leaves mottled with dead spots. Manure is simplest cure. Fungus diseases Most can be treated with Bordeaux Mixture, Kocide micronized copper, copper dust, and sulfur sprays and dusts. Anthracnose: Primarily affects ripe fruit, causes a slight, sunken spot rot (early symptoms are a round sunken spot on the fruit skin, about 2-4 mm diameter). Most prominent in hot Augusts with high temps and humidity or heavy dews. Fungus can overwinter on vines, or can be seedborne. Rotations and treating seeds with 122oF water for 15 minutes can help control. Also Bordeaux mixture. Botrytis fruit rot: More of a problem with greenhouse tomatoes when grown cool in humid conditions. "Water soaked" spots in the fruit that enlarge rapidly and become covered with powdery grey spores. Raise heat, reduce humidity. Buckeye rot: Large, dark brown soft spots on greenhouse fruits. Mulch plants, sterilize soils. Damping off: Seedlings suddenly "pinch in" at the soil line and keel over. Well drained, sterile soil for sowing is the key to control. Early blight: Irregular brown spots with a "bullseye" pattern on lower leaves of plants. Spots enlarge to 4-9 mm (0.25 - 0.5"), then coalesce. Affected leaves turn brown, drop. Stem spotting and stem girdling or fruit rot (near stem) may occur late in season. Rotation and good sanitation practices (including removing horsenettle, jimsonweed, groundcherry and nightshade) are recommended controls. Also Bordeaux mixture. Fusarium wilt: ("yellows") One of the most common and damaging diseases. Generally not damaging unless soil and air temperatures are high in much of the season. Slight yellowing of a single leaf, or slight wilting of the lower leaves is followed by an overall yellowing. Brown discoloration of vascular tissues in stem or petioles of wilted leaves is common. Choose Fusarium resistant cultivars, grow in clean soil, rotate crops, destroy vines at end of the summer. Nematode infection increases risk of fusarium infection. Ghost Spot: Same fungus as Gray mold. Small whitish rings, 1-3 mm diameter, on green tomatoes. Warmer, drier conditions control. Gray Leaf Spot: More common in SE states. Also on peppers, eggplants, ground cherries, etc. Dark brown spots on underside of leaves in warm, humid weather. Affected leaves turn yellow, wither, drop. Serious infections will keep plants from fruiting. Bordeaux mixture will treat. Gray Mold: Heavy gray growth on dead leaves or stems at the base of the plants. Tan markings appear on stems, gray spots on live leaves, and gray or yellow soft spots on the fruits. Usually a spring disease that will let up in higher temperatures or lower humidities. Late Blight: Severe defoliation following irregular greenish-black, watersoaked spots on older leaves. In humid weather, there may be a white, downy growth on spots. Plants may look "frosted". Fruits can be affected at any stage; lesions are large, dark, firm, rough patches. Most common at night temperatures of 40- 60ooF, day temps of 70-80. May spread from infected potato plants. Bordeaux mixture will treat. Leaf Mold: Usually greenhouse disease, but sometimes outdoors. White spots appear on surface of older leaves, enlarging and yellowing. With humidity, patches become velvety and olive-green. Control with good ventilation, temperatures > 60oF. Septoria leaf spot (Septoria blight): Common in Atlantic, Central states, and Southern Plains states. Most severe in rainy seasons, crowded patches. Usually not seen before mid-July. Older leaves have many, small, watersoaked spots, usually 1-2mm diameter. Leaves may drop, and progressive defoliation may occur. Clean cultivation, clean up at the end of season, and staying out of wet tomato patches (you can spread the spores) help. Can be treated with Bordeaux mixture. Soil rot fungus: Also a Pythium rot, like damping off. Slightly sunken brown spots on fruit, outlined with concentric rings. Spots enlarge, and may break open. Keep tomato vines and fruits off soil. Spotted wilt: Numerous small, dark, circular dead spots on younger leaves. Stem tips may be dark streaked and die back. May kill plants; survivors will have yellowish leaves and fruits with concentric, circular marks. Disease can be shared with lettuce, tomato, celery, spinach, peppers and potatoes. Bacterial diseases Bacterial canker: Usually first symptoms are wilting of margins of lower leaves, often on only one side of leaf; leaves curl upward, turn brown, wither and die. Petioles remain attached to stem, which helps distinguish this from Fusarium and Verticillium wilts. Plants may have a single affected shoot, though dying will continence up the stem, and pith becomes yellow and mealy. Open stem cankers develop. Fruit may be affected with small raised, white dots 2-4 mm diameter, which later become white birdseyes with brown centers. Fruit may be stunted or deformed. This is a seedborne disease, commonest in home-saved or uninspected seed. Can be prevented by a 25 min seed soak in 122oF water, or fermenting the seeds in crushed tomato pulp 96 hours, or soaking in 50-50 mixture of vinegar and water for 24 hours. Bacterial spot: Common in rainy seasons. Small dark, greasy-looking leaf spots may be followed by flower drop and/or water-soaked spots 2-4 mm diameter on young green fruits. Soil borne disease. Bacterial wilt: Commonest in southern states. Rapid wilting and death of entire plant without yellowing or spotting of leaves. Stem cross- sections of wilted plants will be dark, watersoaked and have a grayish exudate when squeezed. Institute 5 year rotations, avoiding including pepper, tobacco, eggplant or potatoes in rotation. Remove affected plants as soon as problem is noticed. Virus diseases: Curly top: (western yellow blight) Caused by the same virus as curly top of sugar beets. Seems to be carried by beet leafhopper. Main symptoms are curling and twisting of leaves of affected plants. Prevention is planting at times that may avoid high leafhopper populations, or excluding insects with row covers. Mosaics: Common mosaic, tobacco mosaic, Aucuba mosaic and cucumber mosaic can all infect tomatoes. Mottles areas of light and dark green on leaves, sometimes appearing puckered, or malformation of leaflets, or yellow mottling of leaves, or stunted yellow, bushy plants can be seen with these diseases. Control by avoiding handling plants (esp. by people who handle tobacco), removing perennial weeds, esp. pokeweed, catnip and milkweeds. Aphids can transmit mosaic viruses. Seedlings can be dipped or sprayed with milk at least twice if they are suspected of being infected. OK, folks, what have I forgotten? Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil Sun Aug 29 00:41:32 EDT 1993 Article: 21901 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!ra!shiva4175.nrl.navy.mil!user From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) Subject: Best and worst Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: usenet@ra.nrl.navy.mil Organization: Naval Research Lab Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 23:12:16 GMT Lines: 33 Location: Laurel, MD (Zone 7, between baltimore and DC) Best veggies: various brassica greens (mustard, vi-vegeta, broccoli rabe); asparagus; Carnival & Early Girl tomatoes; lemon basil Worst veggies: Husky and Better Boy tomatoes (yech); okra (barely getting any); pickling cucumbers (killed by wilt/beetles) Best other: salvia superba (blue queen?) and mini-marine heliotrope that i started from seed; Nandina domestica "firepower" -- bought on a whim last fall, & it's turned out to be a great little plant year round Worst other: darn lantana seeds that NEVER germinated; supposed dwarf convolvulus Royal Ensign (from seed) that seems to have reverted to climbing type with boring pink flowers, plus 1 or 2 crummy blue flowers on shorter stems that at least look like the catalog picture. the jury is still out on my retarded (or, botanically challenged) habanero .... Judy Karpen "pushing back the frontiers of science...." karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil Code 7675K, NRL, Washington DC 20375-5352 From ebf@cbnewst.cb.att.com Sun Aug 29 00:41:41 EDT 1993 Article: 21918 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!att-out!cbnewst!ebf From: ebf@cbnewst.cb.att.com (eileen.b.fleming) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Lead from Paint Keywords: Lead, Tomatoes Message-ID: Date: 28 Aug 93 19:05:52 GMT Organization: AT&T Lines: 11 My VERY old house was power washed 2 years ago, and lead paint made its way into the soil Tomatoes are growing within 6 feet of the house -- is it possible for the plants to take up the lead from the soil and deposit the lead in the tomato fruits? Is there a way to cheaply test for lead concentration in the soil or in the tomatoes themselves? Eileen From stngiam@athena.mit.edu Sun Aug 29 00:42:17 EDT 1993 Article: 21922 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!stngiam From: stngiam@athena.mit.edu (Shih-Tung Ngiam) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Lead from Paint Date: 28 Aug 1993 22:10:13 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: primavera.mit.edu In-reply-to: ebf@cbnewst.cb.att.com's message of 28 Aug 93 19:05:52 GMT In article ebf@cbnewst.cb.att.com (eileen.b.fleming) writes: > Tomatoes are growing within 6 feet of the house -- > is it possible for the plants to take up the lead > from the soil and deposit the lead in the tomato fruits? Fruiting crops are generally less prone to lead uptake than root crops or leafy vegetables. However, if the lead level in the soil is very high, the crops might still contain high levels of lead. > Is there a way to cheaply test for lead concentration > in the soil or in the tomatoes themselves? The U Mass Agricultural Extension tests soil for lead in addition to testing for NPK and other nutrients. The total cost for all the tests is $7.50 per sample. They also analyze plant tissue for lead, at a cost of $10. Try calling your county Extension Agent (should be listed under the county government, in the phone book), for details of the procedure in your area. Shih Tung Chem E Best l'il Tech School on the Charles From gwv@eastrg2.cray.com Sun Aug 29 00:44:31 EDT 1993 Article: 21746 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!raistlin!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Subject: Re: need HIGH nitrogen for corn Message-ID: <1993Aug25.145540.11230@walter.cray.com> Lines: 44 Sender: gwv@eastrg2 (George Vandenberghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: eastrg2-gate.cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: <1993Aug24.133318.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu> Date: 25 Aug 93 14:55:39 CDT Corn needs plenty of nitrogen but it also needs Phosphorous and Potassium (and magnesium and zinc .. .. ..). You definitely need to worry about the potassium and probably about the phosphorous as well. The small ears are likely due to a deficiency of light, Phosphorous or Potassium. If the plants were healthy and green and grew fast and produced side shoots, and if the silks came out within a few days of the tassels beginning to shed pollen, then the problem was likely insufficient light. Cloudy periods between seven and 14 days after pollination often result in MUCH lower yields unless accompanied by cool (low 70s or lower) daytime temperatures. This will also happen if the plants are grown too close together (one plant per two square feet is the optimum density) or in a shady area. Plant corn in the sunniest spot you can find. Potassium deficiency shows up as short internodes, weak tassels and brown fringes on the older leaves appearing before the tassels have stopped shedding pollen. Phosphorous deficiency appears as slow growth, purpling of leaves and stems on varieties that have the purple gene (Silver Queen has it) and delayed silking so that the pollen has finished shedding before most of the silks are out. If you got a partial ear of corn with a big dead cob at the end, this is probably the problem. If you get a partial ear of corn with a little pointy tip potassium deficiency or lack of light is the more likely problem. If your partial ear of corn has kernels scattered throughout, drought or heat damage or insect damage to the silks is more likely From ac814@Freenet.carleton.ca Sun Aug 29 00:48:34 EDT 1993 Article: 21441 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ac814 From: ac814@Freenet.carleton.ca (Wendy Buckner) Subject: Re: Rooting hormone??? Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: ac814@Freenet.carleton.ca (Wendy Buckner) Organization: The National Capital Freenet References: <009713A0.2C0DB520@vms.csd.mu.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 15:58:13 GMT Lines: 27 In a previous article, 25u7gardinie@vms.csd.mu.edu () says: >I am curious (being a relatively novice gardener that should come as no >surprise). While browsing around the local garden supply store (which I >find myself doing more and more lately) I noticed a product called >Rootone F (I think or some such thing). What it was is a rooting hormone >and fungicide all in one. It is to be used for cuttings and is supposed >to help the whole process along. I am wondering how effective such products >are and wheyher or not they are worth investing in? > Rooting hormone products are very effective, and are usually labelled with a numeric value that corresponds to the type of plant you want to propogate. They are worth buying if you are interested in propogating by cutting or by layering, especially plants that are loathe to do so. I don't use a fungicide, but that's a matter for the individual gardener to decide for him/herself. Hope this was of some help. -- Wendy (ac814@freenet.carleton.ca) "Our aim, I think, should be to make letters live." -- Edward Johnston From SysAdmin Sun Aug 29 00:48:53 EDT 1993 Article: 21449 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!target!tching From: tching@target.uucp (Tracy Ching ) Subject: Re: Rooting hormone??? Message-ID: <1993Aug19.170454.15699@csus.edu> Sender: news@csus.edu Organization: cdwr References: <009713A0.2C0DB520@vms.csd.mu.edu> Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 17:04:54 GMT Lines: 22 In article <009713A0.2C0DB520@vms.csd.mu.edu> 25u7gardinie@vms.csd.mu.edu writes: >Rootone F (I think or some such thing). What it was is a rooting hormone >and fungicide all in one. It is to be used for cuttings and is supposed >to help the whole process along. I am wondering how effective such products >are and wheyher or not they are worth investing in? I hope most may agree with my (also novice) comment. Rooting hormones can make or break it all. No "Rootone" can mean no roots and death to your cutting and/or rot to your cutting. Conversely, too strong of a hormone can inhibit the growth of roots. (Typically you will never run into that problem if you buy "Rootone" brand - only if you have the -super- strong stuff that can be found at agri universities or nurseries only) Kay posted a previous news regarding IBA concentrations. IBA (in case you are wondering what it stands for) is idolebuteric acid. Maybe spelling is wrong but if you really want to know what it chemically does, you can get a book on it at your favorite agri university. Hey Kay, if you are reading this, what does the NAA actually do? (again, napthaleneacetic acid). tching@water.ca.gov From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Aug 29 00:49:08 EDT 1993 Article: 21485 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Rooting hormone??? Message-ID: <1993Aug20.122609.15779@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 20 Aug 93 12:26:09 -0500 References: <009713A0.2C0DB520@vms.csd.mu.edu> <1993Aug19.170454.15699@csus.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 35 In article <1993Aug19.170454.15699@csus.edu>, tching@target.uucp (Tracy Ching ) writes: > In article <009713A0.2C0DB520@vms.csd.mu.edu> 25u7gardinie@vms.csd.mu.edu writes: > I hope most may agree with my (also novice) comment. Rooting hormones > can make or break it all. No "Rootone" can mean no roots and death to your > cutting and/or rot to your cutting. Too low a concentration rarely works either. > Conversely, too strong of a hormone > can inhibit the growth of roots. > Kay posted a previous news regarding IBA concentrations. > IBA (in case you are wondering what it stands for) is idolebuteric acid. indole-3-butyric acid. > Hey Kay, if you are reading this, what does the NAA actually do? > (again, napthaleneacetic acid). It's another of the compunds with auxin-like activities-- but NAA isn't naturally occurring in any plants I know of (but I'm not a plant physiologist... just a taxonomist). Here's some of the common auxin and auxin analogs (and for giggles, the prices for "puro stuff" from Sigma (who won't sell to individuals): Indole-3-acetic acid (IAA or heteroauxin) 25 g $22.30 Indole-3-acetyl-L-alanine (IAA-L-alanine) 250*mg* $103.95 Indole-3-acetyl-L-asparagine (IAA-L-asp) 250 mg $103.95 Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) 25 g 46.20 Indole-3-propionic acid (IPA) 25 g 75.00 alpha-naphthylene acetic acid (NAA) 25 g 8.90 2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) 100 g 5.35 (yup, the herbicide*) 2,4-D is actually used for *extremely* difficult to root cuttings... in very low dosages. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From SysAdmin Sun Aug 29 00:50:23 EDT 1993 Article: 21477 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!target!tching From: tching@target.uucp (Tracy Ching ) Subject: Re: Rooting hormone??? Message-ID: <1993Aug20.164427.9756@csus.edu> Sender: news@csus.edu Organization: cdwr References: <251e34$mqv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Distribution: usa Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 16:44:27 GMT Lines: 16 In article <251e34$mqv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> dm055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rebecca A. Jone) writes: > >I have a question similar to yours, I have been using a rooting >hormone (Security brand) that is not the Rootone brand without >much success. Is there a really a difference between brands or >is it just me? >-- Sorry to say but it could be just you. Keeping the cuttings moist by "fog" or "mist" help very much. (not too much water or you'll end up with a rotten stick) So as you see, there are many factors that help or kill a cutting. Some rooting hormones are different and contain other chemicals in there to aid in rooting and preventing the thing from rotting. (rotting and rooting are spelled closely for a reason :-) ) From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Aug 29 00:50:30 EDT 1993 Article: 21486 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Rooting hormone??? Message-ID: <1993Aug20.123013.15780@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 20 Aug 93 12:30:13 -0500 References: <251e34$mqv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 12 In article <251e34$mqv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, dm055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rebecca A. Jone) writes: > > I have a question similar to yours, I have been using a rooting > hormone (Security brand) that is not the Rootone brand without > much success. Is there a really a difference between brands or > is it just me? You need the right concentration of hormones for each kind of plant. If you'll post the ingredients and their concentrations, and the types of cuttings you're trying, we can probably be more help. Kay From daniel.mascheck@yob.sccsi.com Sun Aug 29 00:50:44 EDT 1993 Article: 21532 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!nuchat!yob!daniel.mascheck From: daniel.mascheck@yob.sccsi.com (Daniel Mascheck) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Rooting hormone??? Message-ID: <21054.320.uupcb@yob.sccsi.com> Date: 20 Aug 93 22:34:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Ye Olde Bailey BBS - Houston, TX - 713-520-1569 Reply-To: daniel.mascheck@yob.sccsi.com (Daniel Mascheck) References: <251e34$mqv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Lines: 33 RA.I have a question similar to yours, I have been using a rooting .hormone (Security brand) that is not the Rootone brand without .much success. Is there a really a difference between brands or .is it just me? Maybe, maybe not. Some plants respond very well to IBA some do not! Also certain areas of the plant can be rooted while others can't. What are you tryig to root? You need to remember to remove most of the leaves on a cutting. They like well drained potting soil, and a high humidity environment, by misting or intermittent spray. Most cuttings should be at the nodal region, and cut at a 45 degree angle. The node contains undifferentiated tissue that can be coaxed into producing roots or shoots, hence the reason for the Rootone or IBA! P.S.Remember the cutting needs to be placed 1 1/2 to 2 inches in the potting media. Firm in tightly. if you leave any air spaces in the root area, you can kiss the cuttings goodbye. Have a good one!!! Dan --- . 1st 1.01 #14 . No matter where you go, there you are. ---- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Ye Olde Bailey BBS 713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis) | | Houston,Texas yob.sccsi.com Home of alt.cosuard | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From yourch@bnr.ca Sun Aug 29 00:51:01 EDT 1993 Article: 21506 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!bnrgate!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!bnr.ca!yourch From: yourch@bnr.ca (James Yourch P265) Subject: Re: Rooting hormone??? Message-ID: <1993Aug20.185833.24800@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP Distribution: usa Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 18:58:33 GMT Lines: 76 I have had excellent results rooting trees, shrubs, and perennials using very inexpensive and easily obtained supplies. Although this method may not be as effective as those used by professional nuserymen, it should provide adequate results for most gardeners. Rooting Hormone: I use Dip n' Grow ( 1% IBA .5% NAA ) diluted 8:1 with tap water. Rootone is probably OK, I have not tried it. Rooting Media: I use Peter's potting soil with no modifications. Mist: I don't have a mister, but what I use works well anyway. I bought several transluscent hard plastic storage bins ( 24" l x 16" w x 16" d ) at a local discount store. These allow light through to the cuttings but maintain the humidity that the cuttings need to survive without roots. I have also used cheap styrofoam coolers covered with clear plastic secured with elastic. The only problem with this method is that heavy rains ( We have not had many this year ) will weigh down the plastic and drown your cuttings. My solution to this was to place a small stone under one side of the cooler, allowing the water to run off one side, and by placing the cooler under a large bush or tree that breaks the fall of the heavy rain. Technique: Prepare the containers ( small pots, flats, whatever ) by adding the potting soil and watering until it runs through the drainage holes. It will settle somewhat so you may have to add more soil and water again. Set the containers into the rooting chamber ( storage bin ). Dilute your rooting hormone and place in a small glass. You don't need much, I mix 1/8 tsp hormone with 1 tsp water. Prune your cuttings just above a bud. The cuttings I take have 6-10 leaves and are not woody nor soft. Usually the hardness is about right 2 weeks after the shoot growth stops. Just before you dip your cutting, cut off the lowest set of leaves and cut the stem again just below where you cut off the leaves. Dip the just cut end of the cutting into the rooting hormone for about 5 seconds and then insert it into the soil. Don't push the cutting too far into the soil or it may rot ( 1/2 to 1" is enough ). Place the cover on the rooting chamber and place in a shady, but bright area, direct sun will cook your cuttings. The rooting chamber will maintain the humidity so your cuttings will not need much water. I give mine a sprinkle once a week. After 2-6 weeks ( depends on many factors ) your cutting will probably start rooting. To check, lightly tug on the cutting, if it resists then it has probably started rooting. Do not tug on the cuttings more than once a week. I remove the containers from the rooting chamber a week or two after I feel the initial resistance. I give the cuttings a light feeding and leave them in a bright shady area for several days, gradually introducing them into the light level that their parents prefer. Once the cuttings start to grow again you should be able transplant them safely. If they don't start growing leave them alone, because they may enter a dormancy from which they will not recover. Best to overwinter in the same container and transplant when growth starts the following spring. Other tips: Take your cuttings in the morning or evening when it is cooler, the cuttings are less likely to wilt. Work quickly, but carefully. Get the cutting dipped and stuck as soon as possible after cutting it from the parent plant. Keep things clean. Discard any unused diluted rooting hormone. Use new potting soil everytime or sterilize it in the microwave. Keep your rooting chambers and containers clean by removing all soil residue with high pressure water and then wiping with or dipping in a mild bleach solution. Happy Propogating, Jay From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!cusanell Sun Aug 29 22:06:45 EDT 1993 Article: 21934 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!cusanell From: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic S. Cusanelli) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <42501@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 29 Aug 93 12:47:12 GMT References: Reply-To: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic Cusanelli) Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD Lines: 15 "93 garden production: \ City: Frederick, Maryland Best Plant(s): All hot pepper plants faired well. Thai, Cayenne, Jalapeno, Hot Cherry. Also Cubannelle peppers are doing extreemly well (I have one plant over 6' tall) All these pepper plants are huge and producing well. Worst Plant(s): Cuccumbers, the extreemly hot temps killed them off early with low production. Second planting unsuccessful Most tomatoe varieties (Early, Better boy, Delicious) were way off production mark. Plum tomatoes faired all right, but not too well. Please post a summary of all the responses you get. Thanks From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier Sun Aug 29 22:07:34 EDT 1993 Article: 21940 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: brush piles for wildlife? Message-ID: <1993Aug29.155649.16095@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 29 Aug 93 15:56:49 -0500 References: <1993Aug29.173641.18261@adobe.com> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 10 In article <1993Aug29.173641.18261@adobe.com>, kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling) writes: > I'm cutting out some volunteer privets and I remember that gardening- > with-wildlife articles have suggested setting up a brushpile. So > that's what I'm doing with the branches, but I don't think any of the > articles mentioned how big this should be, though. Anyone know? Depends on the critters you're trying to shelter. 3-4 ft tall is big enough for most small mammals and songbirds... you can drop it to 2 ft if you don't want the birds. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier Sun Aug 29 22:07:51 EDT 1993 Article: 21941 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Ferns Message-ID: <1993Aug29.163333.16097@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 29 Aug 93 16:33:33 -0500 References: <25oqbu$q7f@news.acns.nwu.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 40 In article <25oqbu$q7f@news.acns.nwu.edu>, rhalgren@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Robert Halgren) writes: > I have just been asked if I could take care of the plants in the > lobby of my building - for a price of course (every bit helps a starving > grad student). Most of them I have no fear of, some crotons, ficus, > other assorted stuff. What scares me are the ferns. I know I could grow > them just fine in my bathroom, but I don't think I want to make that the > lobby of my apartment building. Conditions in the lobby: fairly bright > indirect natural light (good!), lots of traffic, low humidity. The > building is not airconditioned, so the humidity approaches outdoor > humidity in the summer. In the winter it will be dry as a bone. Rob: Try to find out where they bought the ferns, and see if they can be returned. Impress on the buyer that ferns are NOT going to be happy (and will probably die back or die) in "dry as a bone" conditions this winter. Better to choose things that will survive, rather than "what looks good in the greenhouse now". Also, when choosing replacements, consider the lobby temperatures: are the plants going to get a blast of winter air when the door opens? Does the door ever get propped for deliveries? [I remember well the day my major prof delivered the carcass of a Theobroma cacao (chocolate tree) to an ecologist's office door... the guy had propped a greenhouse door open and the chocolate got hit with cold enough air that it died. I think the ecologist might have died, too, had he been in his office during delivery of the dead tree!] You'll also want to consider the amount of available light. Lots of big office buildings "rent" office plants... as they start looking shabby, they are returned to a greenhouse to fill out again, and other plants are rotated into the location... That's because most office spaces just don't have enough light or humidity to keep most plants happy. Other than that: weak fertilizer often, lots of misting, watch for salt buildup in the soil, and keep the enstar and the soap solutions handy for creepy-crawlies. ;-) Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier Sun Aug 29 22:08:04 EDT 1993 Article: 21942 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Got some live ones this year! Message-ID: <1993Aug29.164236.16098@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 29 Aug 93 16:42:36 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 25 Well, this is really more about my plant taxonomy classes than gardening, but the gardeners are the ones who'll enjoy the story... We've been going over a laundry list of terminology (alternate, oppostite, whorled leaves, pinnately/palmately compound, pubescent/glabrous/glaucous)... I gave my students a sheet with about 150 terms on it, and sent them out on a scavenger hunt... "See how many you can find... The greenhouse is off limits. If anyone or any group finds examples of them all, I'll buy pizza for our final exam. Be back at 3pm, and we'll see how you're doing." At 3, everyone is sorting their collections, checking off the terms, asking questions and looking up definitions.... "Uh, can you tell me what kind of venation this is?" "Sure... just a sec." In the middle of the table lay three sprigs of strange looking herbage that I didn't recognize immediately...(I didn't have my glasses on) As I leaned over to take a better look, I realized they came off `silk plants'. "You didn't say the adminstration building was off limits!" Sigh. Kay From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!quack!pharvey Sun Aug 29 22:08:49 EDT 1993 Article: 21945 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: Best/Worst growers Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: <1993Aug25.205853.28198@netwise.com> Date: 29 Aug 1993 23:01:03 UTC Lines: 8 In article tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes: >Best : lawn grasses >Worst : maize = corn (a bit odd, because maize is a grass) >tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, North York, Canada. Maize is a tropical grass. I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada] From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com!peters Mon Aug 30 22:44:19 EDT 1993 Article: 180 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com!peters From: peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters x678) Subject: Re: poison ivy References: <19446@news.duke.edu> <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com> <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:28:55 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Research Triangle Park, NC Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com Message-ID: <1993Aug30.122855.9732@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 29 In article <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown) writes: >peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters x678) writes: > >> I'd try sprying a few applications of roundup on the leaves of the poison >> ivy. Believe me, English ivy is one of the most resilient and hardy plants >> i've ever seen. I have all I can do to control it and prevent the stuff >> from overtaking every tree and any other structure on my property. It >> won't be bothered significantly by the roundup. If you're still worried, > >This is the first plant I have ever heard of that won't succumb to >Roundup. That stuff kills just about anything vegetable it touches. > Many plants require a few applications of roundup to do more than kill leaves or make the plant sick. Perennials usually need to be rounded up two seasons before they won't come back. I've sprayed poison ivy many times amid the english ivy. Sure, the leaves yellow locally, but there's no real danger of killing off the english. My compost area has 6" of mulch, which has been in place for more than a year. I can dig up a small spot and the buried english ivy is still alive and well. The only way i've been able to remove english ivy is to run it over with the mower and pull up all the vines (about a million per sq yard). My point is, you'll be hard pressed to kill it. >lance >-- >The Full Circle > Domain: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown) [ preferred ] > Bangs: ...!wolves!circle!lance > PGP Public key block available upon request From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!bnr.ca!chriswil Mon Aug 30 22:44:20 EDT 1993 Article: 181 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!bnr.ca!chriswil From: chriswil@bnr.ca (Chris Williams) Subject: Re: Roses Message-ID: <1993Aug30.140831.14145@brtph560.bnr.ca> Keywords: fungus Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP References: <19632@news.duke.edu> Distribution: triangle Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 14:08:31 GMT Lines: 33 In article <19632@news.duke.edu>, kes@acpub.duke.edu (Ken Strayhorn Jr.) writes: |> Howdy gang |> Well, it's been a tough year for roses, hasn't it? |> Between the heat and the drought I have managed to keep my |> two beds fairly healthy, but that cool, damp spell a few weeks |> ago brought a dose of black spot with it that swept through one |> bed and has removed all the leaves from four of the bushes, |> despite repeated application of Funginex. |> I've never had fungus get this far. The roses are |> putting out new shoots at the top, so I know things are |> relatively OK, but should I cut the bushes back? They look |> awful forlorne standing there, nude except for a few leaves |> and flowers at the very top. Same thing with a few of my roses, and the Funginex isn't helping me much either. It may be slowing it down just a little. It's now about half way up the bushes. I've been plucking the affected leaves hoping that would help, and it does seem help slightly (that along with the Funginex, I suppose). Does anyone out there have an idea for a plan of attack? How long should we proceed with the fungicide? I can't say I'm glad to hear that others are having trouble with their roses, but it is nice to know that I'm not alone... I seem to remember seeing info in the newspaper a while back about a Triangle Rose Society. Does anyone know about that? I'm sure they could help us. -Chris From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!trixie!blad.rtpnc.epa.gov!bolstad Mon Aug 30 22:44:20 EDT 1993 Article: 182 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!trixie!blad.rtpnc.epa.gov!bolstad From: bolstad@blad.rtpnc.epa.gov (Mark Bolstad) Subject: Re: poison ivy Message-ID: <1993Aug30.165138.8604@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> Sender: usenet@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov (Usenet NEWS) Nntp-Posting-Host: blad.rtpnc.epa.gov Organization: United States Environmental Protection Agency References: <19446@news.duke.edu> <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com> <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> <1993Aug30.122855.9732@mlb.semi.harris.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:51:38 GMT Lines: 13 Just my $0.02 about nuking poison ivy with Round-Up. After moving in to our new house, we found the 15 foot wooded buffer at the end of our lot was knee deep in PI. Being new to the area we called the local (Forest Service, State Agri. office, I don't exactly remember) ??? about the PI. The recommendation was to buy the super concentrated form of Round-Up and dilute to 3 times the recommended strength. Well, hot damn! It killed off nearly every piece of PI in one application and only a few (about a dozen) plants returned a year later. Mark From saari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.EDU Mon Aug 30 23:26:06 EDT 1993 Article: 21972 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.EDU!saari From: saari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.EDU (Susan J Saari) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: best in '93 Date: 30 Aug 1993 10:26:13 -0400 Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 19 Sender: daemon@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu City: Columbus, Ohio Best: Roma tomatoes, bush beans (mixture from Shephard Seed of purple, yellow, and green), large zinnias Worst: gladiolas (what a disappointment, got special new bulbs from Park and planted a dozen every week for 8 weeks, only picked 6 flowers), roses, scarlet runner beans (pretty flowers, but no beans) OK: cucumbers (yeah! first success in a long time with these, planted them in front of my large flower bed, they climbed on lilacs and other bushes), snap dragons from seed I have spent the last 6 weeks dragging my hoses around the yard and trying to keep all the perennials, trees, and bushes alive. I've lost an astilbe, and my azalias, so far. I wish we would get some rain and a break in these temperatures in the 90s. All in all, this summer was better for vegetables and last was better for flowers. Sue From kls@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Aug 30 23:26:24 EDT 1993 Article: 21973 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!kls From: kls@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth L Shellberg) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Best/Worst Plants Date: 30 Aug 1993 14:41:02 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 24 Message-ID: <25t3hu$5hp@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <1993Aug26.212742.16092@anasazi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Place: Columbus, Ohio Zone 5 Best: Due to our mild winter and spring, all spring flowering shrubs and trees were spectacular city-wide. In addition, Clethra was good, and now Caryopteris and Buddlia are doing well, and Lespedeza thunbergii is just starting. Perennials: Aruncus, Brunnera, Anemone, Rudbeckia, and the balloon flower 'Komachi' (or somesuch - the flowers never open, but stay as blue balloons until they fade), and daylilies were great. And while most hosta look terrible, mostly due to slugs and the heat, 'Sum and Substance, Frances Williams,' 'Snow Cap,' and 'Regal Spendor' continue to look great into September. Worst: Chrysanthemum 'Shasta,' Salvia 'May Night,' Potentilla 'Miss Wilmot,' Sciadopitys verticillat died, Due to powdery mildew, phlox and ligularia. We've not had significant rain since mid July, so it's a struggle to keep plants from showing signs of drought and heat stress. Ken Shellberg -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - Ken Shellberg | Internet: kls@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu - - The Ohio State University | CIS: 76247.1705@compuserve.com - - Geological Sciences | Voice: 614-292-2721 - From dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu Mon Aug 30 23:26:55 EDT 1993 Article: 21979 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re:MOSS ROCK: Do you grow it on bare stones Date: 30 Aug 1993 15:32:56 GMT Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT Lines: 26 Distribution: na Message-ID: <25t6j8$rql@GRAPEVINE.LCS.MIT.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: im4.lcs.mit.edu >Newsgroups: rec.gardens >From: jsutton@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (james.a.sutton) >Subject: MOSS ROCK: Do you grow it on bare stones? >Message-ID: > >MOSS ROCK: How can I [do I] get it to grow on bare stones? > >I have a new light grey dry stone wall made of granite that sticks >out like a sore thumb. I would like to grow MOSS on the rocks in this >wall to break up the coloration. As I recall, spraying buttermilk on the wall will encourage lichens and mosses to grow as will keeping it sprinkled (damp) during dry spells. You don't have to innoculate it as the spores are in the air. I see lichens on rocks which were fresh as little as 5 years ago (they grow pretty slowly. :'( ) Real moss will not grow in really dry conditions so it depends on the location and shading of your stone wall, whether you can also get moss to grow on it. --Jill -- A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | MILLER MICROCOMPUTER SERVICES | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm -0400(EDT)| Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | MMSFORTH: The cure for the common code.| 42 18'00.79" N, 71 22'27.68" W| From gwv@eastrg2.cray.com Mon Aug 30 23:27:53 EDT 1993 Article: 21987 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Subject: Re: Best/Worst growers Message-ID: <1993Aug30.112148.11378@walter.cray.com> Lines: 28 Sender: gwv@eastrg2 (George Vandenberghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: eastrg2-gate.cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: <1993Aug25.205853.28198@netwise.com> Date: 30 Aug 93 11:21:48 CDT In article , pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes: |> In article |> tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes: |> >Best : lawn grasses |> >Worst : maize = corn (a bit odd, because maize is a grass) |> >tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, North York, Canada. |> |> Maize is a tropical grass. I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to |> grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada] Sweetcorn grows well in Southern Canada. Field corn will not ripen properly except right along the canadian border and in the large area that is between Lake Huron and lakes Erie and Ontario. Special sweetcorn varieties are available for other parts of canada that do not have summer frost; Stokes carries a good selection. U.S varieties do not do well there because long days prolong the vegetative period and slow maturity. U.S varieties also do not do well in the tropics for the opposite reason, the short days hasten maturity and result in a stand of pygmy plants. For the same reason the "Special varieties" mentioned above for Central and Northwest Canada and Alaska do not do well in the lower 48 states. From gcampbel@sneakers.prime.com Mon Aug 30 23:28:39 EDT 1993 Article: 22006 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!linus!cvbnet!sneakers!gcampbel From: gcampbel@sneakers.prime.com (Gerry Campbell ) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@cvbnet.CV.COM (News Account ) Nntp-Posting-Host: sneakers Organization: ComputerVision References: Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 19:05:26 GMT Lines: 13 ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: > > What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in > different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've > been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? > Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Medford (just outside Boston) > Best plant: Tomatoes (Early Girl and Sweet 100), Cucumbers (early) > Worst plant: Most flowers > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com Mon Aug 30 23:28:45 EDT 1993 Article: 22008 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!compass-da!rat!linsley From: vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com (Chuck Linsley) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug30.204707.20797@compass-da.com> Sender: usenet@compass-da.com (Usenet News) Reply-To: vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com (Chuck Linsley) Organization: VLSI Technology, Inc., San Jose, CA, USA Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 20:47:07 GMT Lines: 64 In article , John Foulds writes: |> |> What is your best grower this year? I moved into a new house last summer, and this was my first attempt at a real garden in many years. It was my wife's first-ever attempt at a garden. We learned a few things. :-) Buy seeds early, before the varieties you want sell out. Plant cool weather crops early. If 25 cherry tomato seedlings sprout, don't transplant all of them. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Mountain View (near San Jose), CA Weather: Mild, wet winter; wet spring; dry, very hot summer Best plant: Tomatoes After a slow start, the Ruby Pearls are doing a fair imitation of kudzu. Just beginning to ripen fruit -- delicious. Planted far too many. Anybody want some tomatoes? Nasturtiums Did very well until overrun by tomatoes. Plum (I wish I knew what variety -- yellow-orange skin) Delicious, more fruit than we could harvest, let alone eat. Lavender (Lavendula dentata & hybrid 'Rabbit Ear') Taking over the front of the house. Spearmint (Mentha spicata) Taking over the side of the house. Worst plant: Northrup-King "Shady Plant Mix" Zero germination. Carrots Germinated, than nothing. Serrano pepper Only one seedling survived transplanting and the ensuing onslaught of earwigs. It hasn't even bloomed, let alone produced fruit. Spinach Bolted so fast we got no harvest. Peas The 2 or 3 pods we got were wonderful, but we planted too late. They were just starting to produce when the summer heat killed them. Worst timing by an otherwise good plant: Sweet peas My wife *really* wanted sweet peas for her wedding flowers (14 February). We planted a "winter-blooming" variety last fall. They finally bloomed 9 weeks after our wedding. -- Chuck Linsley Don't trust 'Reply.' vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com seems to work, but if you can find a better path, I'd love to find out about it. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius Tue Aug 31 11:22:27 EDT 1993 Article: 22024 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius From: Bob Klebba Subject: Re: Lemon Verbena Cuttings Message-ID: <1993Aug30.193746.26864@nicmad.uucp> Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp Nntp-Posting-Host: mac1_19 Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <28576@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 19:37:46 GMT Lines: 14 >How can I get a lemon verbena cutting to root? Can I just drop >it in water, or should I plant it? I've had better luck with green wood than with hard wood. I've always used rooting hormone. Another trick is to trim the leaves to half in order to cut down on transpiration loss. Watch out for botrytis; remove all leaves that fall off cuttings. Bob Klebba Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4 Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu "Feed the soil, not the plant" From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Tue Aug 31 11:27:05 EDT 1993 Article: 22027 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Lead from Paint From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Distribution: world Message-ID: <36.470.2552.0N41B8F9@gcbb.granite.mn.org> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 00:00:00 +0600 Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis Lines: 72 Ebf@Cbnewst.Cb.Att.Com to All - Sunday, August 29th: on August 29, 19 92 Discussing: Lead from Paint E>Message-ID: >Newsgroup: rec.gardens >Organization: AT&T E>My VERY old house was power washed 2 years ago, >and lead paint made its way into the soil E>Tomatoes are growing within 6 feet of the house -- >is it possible for the plants to take up the lead >from the soil and deposit the lead in the tomato fruits? E>Is there a way to cheaply test for lead concentration >in the soil or in the tomatoes themselves? There is no inexpensive test for lead concentration in soil that I know of. Water is a different matter, but soil no. The cost is in the setting up and preparation of the sample. Once set up, it is easy to test for additional heavy metals such as mercury, cadmium, chromium, etc. I would expect the test to run upwards of $200. There are two levels of lead of concern, Parts Per Million (PPM) and extractable, or leachable lead. The EPA hazardous level for lead is 5000 PPM, the leachable level is 5. There is virtually no chance that your lead is in a leachable form since it is from paint, so there is no point even running the leach test. Background lead levels will run from 50 PPM up to 250 PPM. Soils near traffic areas will typically be high around 500 PPM from lead from gasoline. Even with the lead removed, it is still in the soil from years ago. Lead does not typically migrate and it certainly does not decay into something else. Once it is there, it is always there. Lead limits in sludges and compost are set at either 500 PPM or 1000 PPM before the sludge must be landfilled rather than used beneficially. Even more of concern is the total pounds of lead added to the soil per acre, since compost and sludge are diluted with the topsoil, but accumulate over years. There is little to do with lead contaminated soil other than to remove it and bury it somewhere where it will not erode or grow crops, such as a landfill. From paint sources, the lead will typically be in the surface few inches as it is a large element and does not migrate through the soil quickly. If you scraped off the old soil a few inches deep, where the paint was or accumulated, you will have removed most of it. Send it to a conventional sanitary landfill, possibly a demolition fill. Do not spade or till it into the soil, as that only makes for more topsoil that must be removed. Lead does not readily accumulate in plants. Its problem comes in root vegetables where it is adhered to the root as a part of the topsoil. The more serious problem is children eating lead paint chips or the soil itself, a phenomenon known as the "pica" syndrome. Lead can also be breathed as a dust, and surprisingly, the skin absorbs lead quickly. Much has been made of lead in drinking water. So the pathway to the body is direct, rather than secondary through plants. I hope this information helps. Mr Compost~~~ Jim~~~ Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org --- * August 30th - Sure, when... OINK FLAP OINK FLAP... Well I'll be damned! From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!orca.es.com!cnn.sim.es.com!moons.sim.es.com!not-for-mail Tue Aug 31 23:01:55 EDT 1993 Article: 22056 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!orca.es.com!cnn.sim.es.com!moons.sim.es.com!not-for-mail From: krogers@moons.sim.es.com (Keith Rogers) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Ferns Date: 31 Aug 1993 12:00:15 -0600 Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah Lines: 28 Sender: Keith Rogers Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2603jf$qi5@moons.sim.es.com> References: <25oqbu$q7f@news.acns.nwu.edu> Reply-To: krogers@moons.sim.es.com NNTP-Posting-Host: moons-201.sim.es.com rhalgren@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Robert Halgren) writes: > What scares me are the ferns. I know I could grow >them just fine in my bathroom, but I don't think I want to make that the >lobby of my apartment building. Conditions in the lobby: fairly bright >indirect natural light (good!), lots of traffic, low humidity. The >building is not airconditioned, so the humidity approaches outdoor >humidity in the summer. In the winter it will be dry as a bone. I grow ferns in my house and your lobby won't be any drier than that where a humid winter day is in the 20% range. The type of fern matters a lot. Platycerium spp. take dry winters fine. The Asplenium species with entire fronds, like bird's nest, do okay. Delicately incised stuff is generally out. Pallea rotundifolia (button fern) does well - I get a lot of new growth in winter. Nephrolepis spp. (spelling looks off a few letters) which includes the Boston fern cultivars are virtually indesctuctable. We have one 6' across with 4' drooping fronds in our West facing, very dry, next to door for winter wind blasts lobby which is positively thriving. Anything with a heavy cuticle is fair game. The rest better be sent back to whoever supplied the plants in the first place. And now's a good time to plug my favorite horticulture book again: Encyclopaedia of Ferns, D. Jones, Timber Press. If you like ferns (or have to care for them) you need this book. Period. -- Keith Rogers krogers@moons.sim.es.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!almserv!mardigras!s5uagm Tue Aug 31 23:05:17 EDT 1993 Article: 22061 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!almserv!mardigras!s5uagm From: s5uagm@fnma.COM (Andrew Miller) Subject: Re: BEST/WORST 93 Message-ID: <1993Aug31.213014.26052@almserv.uucp> Keywords: Dahlia Sender: usenet@almserv.uucp Nntp-Posting-Host: mardigras Reply-To: s5uagm@fnma.COM Organization: Fannie Mae References: <1993Aug31.131516.25304@cs.brown.edu> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 21:30:14 GMT Lines: 29 In article 25304@cs.brown.edu, sjh@cs.brown.edu (suzi howe in RI) writes: >BEST: ..., Dahlias (Japanese beetles LOVE >these, and it's a battle to keep a single >perfect bloom for my camera! - same for >hibiscus blooms) > >WORST: ..., Roses - Japanese beetles gottem .. ( Near Wash. D.C. ) Around here the VERY serious Dahlia growers keep pinching back their plants until late August when the Japanese beetles are through for the year. All our shows are in late September, well after the beetles are gone. On the west coast the shows started as early as last weekend. The light colored blooms are more suseptible, but I never have really big problems with the beatles on Dahlia. I've had much worse problems with J.B.'s on roses. The scent of the roses draws them in by the pound. I only get rose blossoms in spring and fall, durring the summer I have to cut them in bud, or the beetles get them all. > >(think I'll try beetles traps next yr) > Only if you have a place to put it FAR away from your garden. - Andrew - ( who hopefully picked the last two Japanese beetles off his roses this morning. ) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!hopper!adamf Tue Aug 31 23:05:43 EDT 1993 Article: 22063 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!hopper!adamf From: adamf@hopper.ACS.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Re: Searching for Paulownia Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: U.Va. Internet Public Access Project References: <25vt44$p2n@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu> Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 20:46:35 GMT Lines: 10 Since I work for the Virginia Dept. of Agriculture as an agricultural inspector for plant protection, a REGULATORY agency, I would check with the laws before I did any "Smuggling" Adam -- Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.acs.virginia.edu VDACS Apiary Inspector 703-433-1006 116 Reservoir St. 703-434-5607 (fax) Harrisonburg, VA 22801 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ae684 Tue Aug 31 23:07:57 EDT 1993 Article: 22067 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ae684 From: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Subject: RESULTS: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Organization: The National Capital Freenet Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 00:49:36 GMT Lines: 827 Responses to --- "Your Best in '93" ----------- Introduction------------------------------------------------- Many, many thanks to each of you who replied. The next step is to try and do some analytical work on the submissions to see if there are any degrees of significance. If anyone has a problem with the format of the text file (ie. CR/LF) let me know and I'll fix it for you. Hope you enjoy the reading as much as I did. Memorable quotes from the responses: (1) I hate to say it but we don't have a worst plant or vegetable (2) even my mother is very impressed and she has had one (garden) as long as I can remember (3) Worst: Azalia (died) :-( (my wife is gonna kill me for that one) (4) Worst: Cucumbers (they just won't do diddley!) (5) Poblano chile (just lost the will to live) (6) Organic til I die... (7) Best: Zucchini (help! help! I fought the squash & the squash won) (8) If the temperature stays mild enough I'm going to nurse these plants along until I get SOMETHING (9) Worst: Lawn! It's August 27 and I'm still having to cut regularily! (10) Best: ..Viola (they just keep going and g..) (11) Wierd weather! (12) .. would have been ok had the deer not knocked the stakes down like dominoes (13) Dayton, OH. (Zone 5, mainly, sometimes shown as a Zone 6, following the Great Miami River valley --who knows? It's hot!) (14) Worst: THE ^&#@%# Tomatoes! (15) This was our first year gardening. It's been a lot of work but well worth it. !! (16) I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada] (17) Best: the $1 per bush roses from Gurney's that I put out for a hedge. Worst: the expensive roses from Parks that I put next to the others, apparently the deer knew the difference :-( (18) This is my first usenet post - ever! (19) It's difficult to say what has done the best, probably the weeds :) And my personal favourite: (20) the jury is still out on my retarded (or, botanically challenged) habanero Hopefully someone will remember to try this again in the late Fall after the full season has ended. Happy harvesting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- Geographical Index -------------------------------------------- 1 Ottawa, Ontario 24 Seattle, WA 47 Dayton, OH 2 Westminster, MA 25 Monrovia, CA 48 Centreville,VA 3 Middleton, Idaho 26 Garland, TX 49 Phoenix, AZ 4 Chapel Hill, NC 27 Menlo Park, CA 50 Asheville, NC 5 St. Paul Park, MN 28 Seattle, WA 51 Sunnyvale, CA 6 Sacramento, CA 29 Austin, TX 52 Eugene, OR 7 Point of Rocks, MD 30 Oxford, MA 53 Yorktown, NY 8 Houston, TX 31 Northern Virginia 54 Woodbridge, VA 9 San Francisco, CA 32 Boulder, CO 55 Laurel, MD 10 Columbus, OH 33 Kitchener, Ontario 56 San Francisco,CA 11 San Francisco, CA 34 Andover, MA 57 Los Gatos Mtns, CA 12 Cleveland, OH 35 Raleigh, NC 58 Macon, GA 13 Lafayette, CO 36 Ames, IA 59 New Orleans,LA 14 Austin, TX 37 Hampton, VA 60 Columbus, OH 15 Columbus, OH 38 Seattle, WA 61 Frederick, MD 16 Portland, OR 39 Marvelville, Ontari 62 Austin, TX 17 Ottawa, Ontario 40 Bedford, MA 63 Area Code 408 18 Irvine, CA 41 Austin, TX 64 Syracuse, NY 19 Beltsville, MD 42 Chicago, IL 65 Medford, MA 20 Arlington, MA 43 Detroit, MI 66 Mountain View,CA 21 Oak Park, IL 44 Toronto, Ontario 67 Columbus, OH 22 Boulder, CO 45 Natick, MA 68 Columbus, OH 23 Sherwood, OR 46 Pattersonville, NY 69 Beltsville, MD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ Name index --------------------------------------------------- 5 Adams, David 17 Hoffman, Sandra P. 31 Purks, David 16 Bailey, Brian 10 Hoskins, James M. 64 Reed, Judith Anne 46 Barnett, Janet A. 3 Hypes, Gary 23 Reid, Richard 38 Beer, Bob 55 Karpen, Judy 26 Rogers, Daty 48 Blackwell, Ellie 58 Kespohl, Elke 67 Saari, Susan J. 12 Bowes, Keith William 9 Kolling, Karen 39 Seeley, Rick 14 Breland, Mark A. 42 Krueger, Kevin 68 Shellberg, Kenneth L. 43 Burgess, Joel 4 Kupstas, Eileen 8 Smith, Cyndi 65 Campbell, Gerry 34 Lan, Imagine (?) 18 Spitzer, Matt 6 Ching, Tracy 66 Linsley, Chuck 22 Stern, Ilana 53 Clarke, Ed 11 MacGilvra, Sara 2 Stomieroski, John C. 61 Cusanelli, Dominic S 52 Markham, L. 50 Strauss, Bob 60 Dahler, Will 25 Marks, Louise 37 Sweet, Jon 13 Dattore, Bob 15 Marlatt, Marty 40 Tallant, Anne 7 Day, Kevin 54 Mary [Cool Bean] 56 Tracy, Bridget 33 De Visser, S. 59 McCrory, Greg 69 Vandenberghe, George 1 Dodds, Diane 45 Miller, Dick & Jill 19 Vandenberghe, George 51 Fisher, Scott [Kim] 47 Molinaro, Elizabeth 49 Walker, Naomi 21 Goeckner, Hans 27 Much, Kathleen 44 Wallis, Anthony 30 Gunnarson, Martha 24 Neville, Dorothy 29 Wilkes, Clifford 62 Harvey, Paul 32 Nosbisch, Kathleen 41 Young, Jerry 36 Healey, Mary H. 20 Palay, Victoria 63 Young, Jerry 28 Henderson, Sarah 57 Powell, Anne M. 35 Yourch, James *NOTE: Reed, Judith Anne (64) scrambled due to communications error. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- **** The Submissions **** (1)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ac849@freenet.carleton.ca (Diane Dodds) City: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Best: got to be the nastursims I planted in an empty spot in the veggie garden. I started them from seed at Easter in the living room and transplanted them to the outdoors in the first week of June. Well these little guys now have leaves that are the size of dinner plates and vines about the size of cucumber vines. Worst: I hate to say it but we don't have a worst plant or vegetable. Everything is growing by leaps and bounds. I can't remember the other category, but like I say I havent seen a garden grow like this before - even my mother is very impressed and she has had one as long as I can remember. (2)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jzs@genrad.com (John C. Stomieroski) City: Westminster, MA (Zone 5) Best: Basil, thyme, rosemary, bergamot mint Worst: plant(s): Catmint, catnip, rose (starina), dill I grow herbs only. (3)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Gary Hypes City: Middleton, Idaho (near Boise) Best: Potatoes (red, white, and russets), Broccoli, kohl rabi, sugar snap peas, early frosty peas, dill Worst: Spinach (only one plant grew out of a row, and it tasted awful), lettuce (I'm trying again for fall) (4)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Eileen Kupstas City: Chapel Hill, NC (Zone 7) Best: Basil -- hot, dry summer here :-) Worst: Tomatoes -- " " " " :-( (5)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dadams@cherry.cray.com (David Adams) City: St Paul Park, MN Best: Tomatillos, Peas, Tomatoes Worst: potatoes, haberen~os, beets, turnups, horse raddish, (6)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: tching@target.uucp (Tracy Ching ) City: Sacramento Best: Spurge & Oxalis Worst: Azalia (died) :-( (my wife is gonna kill me for that one) (7)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day) City: Point of Rocks, Maryland Best: Brocolli, cucumbers, carrots, onions (sorry, couldn't pick just one) Worst: Cauliflower (8)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Cyndi Smith) City: Houston, TX, USA Best: Sweet Basil (two plants > 2 feet tall and about 1 foot diameter - led to far more basil than I can use/store/give away) Worst: Blue Lake Bush Beans (beautiful foliage but no flowers/beans) (also - bad luck with strawberries after early June attack by the dreaded slugs!) (9)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling) City: south of San Francisco Best: roses Worst: tomatoes (10)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) City: Columbus, Ohio, USA Best: Spring Lettuce/Green Beans Worst: Tomatoes (poorly developed plants, misshapen fruits, low yields) (11)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: HF.SXM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sara MacGilvra) City: East side of San Francisco Bay Best: Roses Worst: Sweet Peas (12)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: bk134@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Keith William Bowes) City: Cleveland, OH, USA Best: cantalopes (Ambrosia), asparagus (Jersey Knight), rhubarb. Worst: broccoli (by far much, much worse than usual) Mediocre: tomatoes (Better Boy, Celebrity), peppers (Bell Boy), onions (Walla Walla Sweet), garlic, shallots, corn (Honey N Pearl), potatoes (Yukon Gold, Kennebec) (13)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dattore@buckhorn.scd.ucar.edu (Bob Dattore) City: Lafayette, Colorado (near Denver/Boulder) Best: Squash (acorn & butternut), Garden Mum (3' tall, 3' diameter) Worst: Tomatoes (not had a single ripe on yet!) (14)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: breland@mcc.com (Mark A. Breland) City: Austin, Texas Best: Tomatoes (Heatwave, Better Boy, Celebrity) Worst: Cucumbers (they just won't do diddley!) (15)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: marty-m@cis.ohio-state.edu (Marty Marlatt) City: Columbus, Oh Best: Peppers, both hot and bell Worst: All other vegetables and flowers -- due to hail/wind storm (16)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: brianb@mentorg.com (Brian Bailey) City: Portland OR. Below average temperatures Best: Hydrangeas. Much bigger and deeper color than normal Worst: Tomatoes. What a flop ! (17)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: af280@Freenet.carleton.ca (Sandra P. Hoffman) City: Ottawa Best: Acorn Squash, with Pumpkin a close second Worst: Cabbage and Cauliflower. (I fed a lot of cabbage worms this year) (18)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mspitzer@sanger.bio.uci.edu (Matt Spitzer) City: Irvine, CA (south of LA) Best: Tomatoes (Better Boy, Celebrity), Thai chile, serrano chile, basil, red bellpepper (except they keep getting stolen), kohlrabi, garlic, broccoli Worst: Salsify (roots rotted), Okra (something done et it up) Poblano chile (just lost the will to live), bush beans (see okra), brussels sprouts (drowned) Slow: Eggplant, habanero (both making a late season comeback) (19)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) City: Beltsville MD. (Washington DC area) Best: Early Cantaloupes (July 11 ties my 1991 record) Worst: Tomatoes (severe heat damage), pole snap beans, Gladiolas (heat and drought damage), eggplant (flea beetles) roses (heat and japanese beetles) Decent: early tomatoes (before they declined), sweetcorn, peas, pole limas (pods had set before the really bad heat hit) Hopefuls: Corn crops # 11, 12, and 13, late cantaloupes, fall pole beans. fall strawberries (Tristar) Oct 1 plowing prevents any fall gardening at my rented space and the 60' sweetgum 30' south of my home garden shades that out in fall. (20)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: palay@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu (Victoria Palay) City: Arlington, MA Best: Tomatoes (Golden Pearl, Sweet 100, Dona) we keep picking and picking! Worst: Cucumbers (Salad Bush) and eggplants (Bambino) Other: Roses (Europeana, Louise Odier, Heritage, English Garden, Tournamentof Roses...) have been particularly lovely this year, probably because there haven't been many japanese beetles chewing them up due to the drought. (21)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: [Hans Goeckner] City: Oak Park, Illinois, USA Best: Wren House gourd, covers my metal toolshed Honorable mention: Bell peppers, never had so many (lots of rain, ground shaded by pumpkin) Worst: Cauliflower (earwigs)// Onions (many disappeared) Dishonorable mention: radishes (got one) (22)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) City: Boulder, CO Best: Snow peas Worst: Basil, peppers Most exasperating: Tomatoes (5 *months* after starting from seed, they are finally getting ripe! At least I have some, though.) (23)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: rreid@rreid.mentorg.com (Richard Reid) City: Sherwood, Oregon Best: Fava Beans Worst: Squash (24)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: neville@cs.washington.edu (Dorothy Neville) City: Seattle Washington Best: dandilions, bindweed, peas (til the enation hit of course) Pretty Good: potatoes, tomatoes (if all those romas would just ripen) Barely adequate: leeks, carrots Worst: Sunflowers, parsnips, beets (25)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: marks@arcturus.usc.edu (Louise Marks) City: Monrovia, California (just east of Pasadena) Best: Tomatoes, Tomatoes, and more Tomatoes - best I've ever grown, sweet bell peppers, too... oh and my zucchinis usually poop out by this time, but they're still going strong. Worrisome: I usually have eggplant coming out of my ears. This year I've had only 30% of my usual production. I'm worried but my friends and neighbors are relieved, I`m sure. Worst: Melons... the vines just aren't growing this year. I'm disgusted. (26)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: drogers@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Daty Rogers) City: Garland, TX, USA (Dallas `berb) Best: Hamelia(sp) or Firebush 3ft around, some sort of periennal blue salvia 7ft around. Both in ground for several years now. Worst: Any of my Lantana's. They just did not produce well this year. Also in ground several years. I'm wondering if my dirt is playing out. Any help on rejuvinating established periennal beds? Organic til I die... (27)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much) City: Menlo Park, CA (on San Francisco Peninsula) Best: Zucchini (help! help! I fought the squash & the squash won.) Worst: Green pepper. One! only. The tomatoes, basil, corn, spinach cucumber, and lettuce did very well, too. Carrots and fennel not so well, but OK. (28)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: sehender@reed.edu (Sarah Henderson) City: Seattle, WA Best plant(all in window boxes): impatiens , basil, anaheim chile Worst (also window boxes): tomatoes(cherry, roma)--lots of fruit but all green so far, eggplant(bambino)--3 plants & 2 fruit so far, poblano chile--wimpy plants & few, small fruit. Last year the tomatoes were great. I attribute the problems to the fact that summer came late (August) and lasted 1 week. If the temperature stays mild enough I'm going to nurse these plants along until I get SOMETHING. (29)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: cliff@seuss.cc.utexas.edu (Clifford A. Wilkes) City: Austin, Texas Best: habaneros (producing steadily since planting in April) Worst: tomatoes (two tomatoes from 6 plants, squirrels got 'em) (30)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mg@pacman.WPI.EDU (Martha Gunnarson) City: Oxford, MA (Central Mass., south of Worcester) Best: Volunteer Watermelon!, Lemon Boy, Super Sweet 100 tomato Worst: Cucumbers, Zucchini [only 1 6" zuke so far 8-( ] (31)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dkpurks@telenet.com [David Purks] City: I'm in Northern Virginia... Best: The spring flowers did well...the Asian Lillies were very large and produced much better than they have in the past. Worst: The Delphiniums which are normally very prolific fizzled this year. I am particularly disappointed in the morning glories. I count on them to hide my fence and they just never filled in as they usually do. As for this summer, I personally think nothing has done exceptionally well. (32)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kat@netwise.com (Kathleen Nosbisch) City: Boulder, CO Best: Tomatoes, over 5 feet high, and zucchinis Worst: Bell peppers - flowering, but not producing (33)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: sdevisse@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (S. De Visser) City: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada Best: Hydrangea, most flowers Worst: Tomatoes, just about everything else, Gladiolus (34)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: imagelan@mv.mv.com (ImagineLan) City: Andover, Massachusetts Best: Blueberries, 66 quarts this week - going for a record harvest. Worst: snow peas, pods what pods. (35)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: yourch@bnr.ca (James Yourch P265) City: Raleigh, NC Best: -Tomato: ( Early girl, Sweet 100, and OG50 ) All producing heavily and delicious. Sweet 100 had no breaks in production. Early Girl and OG50 were not setting much fruit in July because of heat, producing well now though. -Peppers: Habanero and Jalapeno, Excellent production of high quality fruit. -India Hawthorn ( Raphiolepis indica ) -Crepe Myrtle ( Lagerstroemia x fauriei 'Muskogee' ) -Trailing Gardenia ( Gardenia jasminoides 'Radicans' ) *As expected, these plants haved loved the heat -Pink Meidland Rose Excellent flower and hip production, no diseases, insignificant Japanese beetle damage. -Butterfly Bush ( Buddleia davidii ) Incredible vigor and flower production -Sedum 'Autumn Joy' and 'Brilliant' These plants seem to do well no matter what the weather is like. **Newly planted surprise performers: -Big Blue Liriope ( Liriope muscari ) Planted in May in full sun and have thrived despite the heat, doubling in size and blooming well. -Japanese Snowbell ( Styrax japonica ) - Planted last October. Grew from 5' tall and 3' wide to about 8' tall and 5' wide despite the heat, plant looks just as fresh as it did this spring. Talk about vigor. -Dicentra 'Luxuriant' Planted in May. Foliage and flowers have looked good all season. This plant looks fragile, but it is not. -Rebel Jr. Dwarf Turf-type tall fescue - Planted in May, has maintained dark green color in heat and drought. Worst: -Tree Peony - These plants have languished in the heat all summer, almost completely defoliated by now. -Geum - Could not take the heat, one died and the other is languishing. -Summersweet ( Clethra alnifolia 'Hummingbird' ) New transplant (March '93), Wilted badly when I was on vacation and almost completely defoliated. Recovered and flowered well, but still looks pretty rough. -Shasta Daisy - Trying to give these guys enough water to prevent wilting has been a challenge. -Weeping Katsura tree ( Cercidiphyllum japonicum 'Pendula' ) Very beautiful this spring, but the heat has really bothered it this summer. Interestingly, the standard upright Katsura in my yard has done well. Weather: Very Hot( 90 to 100 nearly every day ) and humid, very little rainfall since May, but plants were irrigated about 1" per week. This summer has been a challenge for gardeners. June '93 was the driest June ever recorded ( 0.3" ) and July '93 was the hottest month ever recorded and the driest July ever recorded in the history of weather measurement in Raleigh. (36)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mhhealey@IASTATE.EDU (Mary H Healey) City: Ames, IA, USA Best: false indigo, oregano, 'Moonbeam' coreopsis, Dahlberg daisy, Worst: sweet alyssum (drowned), spirea (lost in action - sucked right out of the ground), raspberries, roses, 'Early Sunrise' coreopsis, butterfly weed (37)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jls@antares. (Jon Sweet) City: Hampton, VA Best: Long Leafed Pine (54" new growth and still growing!) Worst: Hibiscus Sorry...not enough room for veggies in a townhouse when you grow lots of tropicals! The Hibiscus are suffering from the heat and even though I water frequently, the leaves look healthy but not many flowers. In the spring, when there was plenty of rain, they bloomed like crazy. Now.... (38)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: bbeer@stein2.u.washington.edu (Bob Beer) City: Seattle, WA Best: Well, despite the fact that summer never came to Seattle except for about a week in July, my tomatillos did remarkably well. I planted Territorial Seeds "Indian Strain." I also grew fava beans, which I planted last November, and got a bumper crop of in mid-June. Of cherry tomatoes, which are the most reliable here, I have one ripe so far. Lots of little green ones though...I think the exposure was partly to blame - West instead of South. In the flower department, I had good luck with mostly everything; the big difference this year was that things usually restricted to spring lasted much longer (I still have shirley poppies blooming, though they are getting a bit ratty). Bee balm is still in full bloom as well. (39)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ag297@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rick Seeley) City: Marvelville, Ontario, Canada Best: Tomatoes, Peppers, Corn, Carrots, Beets, Squash, Potatoes Worst: Lawn! It's August 27 and I'm still having to cut regularily! (40)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: amt@linus.mitre.org (Anne Tallant) City: Bedford, MA (10 miles NW Boston) Best: Carnival vine tomatoes (only tomato I've ever had to fight the birds for), Celebrity vine tomatoes, Roma paste tomatoes (already five quarts tomato sauce - cooked down - earliest ever), Sugar Ann snap peas (early June), New Hampshire midget watermelons (earliest ever, July) Worst: Pickling cucumbers (cucumber beetles), pole snap beans, garlic and onions (early development stunted by cutworms), Decent: Black Beauty and Dusky eggplant, Georgia Jet sweet potato, butternut squash, early Spanish peanuts, Adzuki and Vermont Cranberry shell beans, Gypsy and Hungarian Wax sweet peppers This year was my 'great paste tomato runoff.' Early results show the Viva Italia and LaRossa paste tomatoes producing, but not as abundantly as the Roma's. Also, they seem to be less tolerant of this summer's heat and drought. All tomatoes grown in raised beds on IRT 76 plastic with a soaker hose beneath the plastic. This year's crop of potatoes (six varieties - Shepody, Yukon Gold, Red Gold, German Buttermilk, Red Dale, Early Ohio) is a big disappointment due to the heat and drought. However, I have to take most of the blame. I did not have enough soaker hose to lay into the potato beds (never needed it before this summer), so the potatoes did not get sufficient moisture. The vines died back early (mid-August, except for Shepody) and I had to go ahead and harvest. All the varieties produced healthy potatoes, they are just smaller than usual. As soon as the soil temperature drops below 60, garlic, onions, spinach, and lettuce will go in for overwintering. (41)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Jerry Young City: Austin TX Best: Phlomis (I bought 5 difft species through the mail and all but one are thriving through our very hot , rainless summer). Caesalpinia pulcherrima, Artemisia "Powis Castle", Zinnia linearis, Erythrina crista-galli Worst: Decaisnea fargesii (I planted them late, and they keeled quickly -- I'll try again.) (42)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: krueger@ssd.comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger) City: I live in a NW suburb of Chicago. Best: Basil, Tomatoes Worst: Corn, Bell and Hot Peppers The peppers are growing really slow, just showing small peppers now. (43)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Wayne State University (Joel Burgess) City: Detroit MI (downtown condo garden on south wall) Best: Nicotiana Suavolens (spelling?) 6-7 Foot tall candelabras dripping with white tubular flowers. Also Tomatoes in Wall o' Water bore first ripe tomatoe on June 29 (last year I waited until August) Worst: Spinach. Planted early, bolted only a few weeks after it germinated. A whole seed packet yield a small, bitter pan of greens. Never again. (44)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) City: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Best: lawn grasses Worst: maize = corn (a bit odd, because maize is a grass) (45)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) City: Natick, MA (15 mi. west of Boston) Best: Nicotiana, Morning Glory, Viola (they just keep going and g..) Worst: Sweet dumpling squash (a woodchuck found it) Salpiglossis and Linum rubrum (planted 10" apart as per instructions. I should have planted them about 3" apart to fill in enough, and they are hardly producing any flowers. Not enough sun??? So-so: petunia was doing just great and would have been #1 except it suddenly stopped blooming. I did find green caterpillars and removed them and now it's starting to bloom again. We've had a VERY DRY summer which has at times been very hot and other times quite cool. Wierd weather! But hten New England weather is usually wierd. (46)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: barnettj@pookie.crd.ge.com (Janet A Barnett) City: Pattersonville, NY (~20 miles west of Albany) Best: pickling cukes (pints and pints of bread and butter pickles, dills brining away, still more on the plants) eating cukes - oodles of 'em - "burpless" only when eaten in moderation ;-) Worst: tomatoes - would have been ok had the deer not knocked the stakes (and plants) down like dominoes lettuce - devoured by slugs Honorable Mention: sunflowers (huge) & pumpkins (good jack o'lantern material) (47)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Elizabeth.Molinaro" City: Dayton, OH. (Zone 5, mainly, sometimes shown as a Zone 6, following the Great Miami River valley --who knows? It's hot!) Best: Flat leaved parsley San Marzano tomotoes (grown from seed in garden) Roses: Rugosas, Grandifloras, and an Antique Worst: Eggplant Dill (tried 3 times to get some to grow. Dead after 2 days each time!) Sweet-peas (48)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: M17257@mwvm.mitre.org [Ellie Blackwell] City: Centreville, Virginia (Washington DC area) Best: Cherry Tomatoes Worst: Geraniums (they still look like seedlings after 5 months!) Cucumbers aren't too great either--lots of blooms, 2 cukes so far off of 4-5 plants. (49)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: naomi@anasazi.com (Naomi Walker) City: Phoenix Arizona Best: Cantaloupe, tomatoes (cherry and roma), dill, corn cosmos, sunflowers, blue salvia, hawaiian blue eyes, marigolds, basil, vinca Biggest Disasters: cucumbers (lemon and green), onions, gladiolus (50)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: strauss@uncavx.unca.edu [Bob Strauss] City: Asheville, NC (the weather has been similar to Raleigh, but "less so." Not as hot, but one of the driest June-July periods recorded here) Worst: Green, bell peppers. Only a few plants have produced. Best: Everything else! Oddly, I'm giving away chili peppers, and jalapenos (the hottest ones I've ever had). Great for bush beans (even with Mexican bean beetles) and asparagus beans (the ants love 'em, too). It has been a banner year for flowwering plants: all the spring trees were exceptional, going into summer. We have some crepe myrtle here, and for once, they are covered with flowers. And last year we planted a few portulacas. Then we roto-tilled part of the back yard, and all the bare spots got portulacas this year! Bigger than last year, too. (51)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: sfisher@megatest.com (Scott Fisher) [Posted by Kim Fisher] City: Sunnyvale, CA (Bay Area) Best: Beans, Snow peas Worst: THE ^&#@%# Tomatoes!! also basil.. Both kinds I tried also the tomatillos have been disappointing. Not ready for final comment: the peppers. Scott's Habanero is thriving and he makes the most amazing faces when he eats them!!:-). We made chile verde last night with a combination on the first Anaheims, Gualjillos, New Mex #6. The best verde I've *ever* tasted!!! The Fresnos are going berserk, I need to make major batches of jelly this weekend to keep up (they are really really hot!) The sweet peppers have not done very well so far, except for an heirloom variety called Jimmy Nardello and the cubanelles. We have come reluctantly to the conclusion that having too many varieties of peppers is not necessarily a good idea, because we don't have enough of any one kind to eat all at once. It was fun, though, to try so many different kinds. (16 hot, 11 sweet) oops, somebody gave us an Andean Aji, a vietnamese, a super chile, and a wierd little purple-leafed magenta flowered kind- make that 20 hots. The majority of the plants are coming into their own (wierd hot/cold shifts in the weather caused some casualites and late starts) If anyone in interested in a final analysis of pepper cultivars, let me know! (52)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: lmarkham@oregon.uoregon.edu City: Eugene,OR Best: Pole beans(10' tall and so heavy we nearly lost the trellis) and Herbs(Savory,sage,thyme,tarragon,basil,oregano,chives,etc) and Radish pods(nice flowers and lots of stir fry material) Worst: greens (they either were toasted on the three warm days we had, et by slugs or bolted) SoSo: Lots of stuff just didn't produce well (size or quantity) but what we got sure tasted good. (I've never had cauliflower that nummy!) I'm afraid after our nonexistent summer that fall is going to hit hard and we won't get the "fruits" of our labor. I'm going to try and protect some of the peppers and such from the frost with covers. We wish everyone luck with old Jack Frost! This was our first year gardening. It's been a lot of work but well worth it. !! (53)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke) City: Yorktown, NY Best: Roma Tomatoes - two laundry baskets full (4 cu. ft. total) Worst: All vine crops (watermellon/zuke/cuke/melon) - dead (54)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mpax@pbs.org (COOL BEAN) [Mary] City: Woodbridge, VA (20 miles So. of D.C.) Best: Lettuce Leaf Basil (and very yummy) Worst: Tomatoes and some flowers (55)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) Location: Laurel, MD (Zone 7, between baltimore and DC) Best veggies: various brassica greens (mustard, vi-vegeta, broccoli rabe); asparagus; Carnival & Early Girl tomatoes; lemon basil Worst veggies: Husky and Better Boy tomatoes (yech); okra (barely getting any); pickling cucumbers (killed by wilt/beetles) Best other: salvia superba (blue queen?) and mini-marine heliotrope that I started from seed; Nandina domestica "firepower" -- bought on a whim last fall, & it's turned out to be a great little plant year round Worst other: darn lantana seeds that NEVER germinated; supposed dwarf convolvulus Royal Ensign (from seed) that seems to have reverted to climbing type with boring pink flowers, plus 1 or 2 crummy blue flowers on shorter stems that at least look like the catalog picture. the jury is still out on my retarded (or, botanically challenged) habanero (56)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: tracy@xerox.com (Bridget Tracy) City: SF Bay AREA Best: Silver Queen Corn (lots of corn!, but needed GALLONS of water) Basil did great too. Worst: Armenian Cucumber (they never set one) (57)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: amp@uts.amdahl.com (Anne M. Powell) City: Los Gatos Mountains, CA (between San Jose and Santa Cruz), altitude 1700 feet Best: the $1 per bush roses from Gurney's that I put out for a hedge Worst: the expensive roses from Parks that I put next to the others, apparently the deer knew the difference :-( Best Weed: sweet peas 10 feet tall with 2-3 foot tap roots (58)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: elke@rigel.uucp (Elke Kespohl) City: Macon, Georgia (approx. 100 miles south of Atlanta) Best: Hot peppers (especially habaneros, jalapenos and cayenne), tomatoes (heatwave), Zinnias, Lemon Verbena, Lemon Balm, Geraniums, Vinca Worst: Chives, Parsley, Dahlias, Oregano (too hot I guess with temperatures in the 98 - 106 range for the last 2 1/2 months) Cucumbers died. They were planted on a trellis behind the tomatoes and got shaded out by the 8 ft. monsters. This is my first usenet post - ever! I have been reading this group for a while though, and since I didn't see any responses from Georgia, here it goes. (59)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: greg.mccrory@ozonehole.com (Greg Mccrory) City: New Orleans, LA Best: bananas (they always do well) azaleas (they do too) camelias (them too :) ) ferns (got more than I can handle) arrowleaf ivy (extra vigorous this season) Worst: geraniums (?) double begonias (dead!) hastas (no bloom and brown edges) roses (too humid) dazies (?) It's difficult to say what has done the best, probably the weeds :) Our climate this season: -Long cool spring, March-June -And then, Relentless heat! 96 degree days, 80 degree nights all summer! -Near average rainfall (lots of rain :) ) (60)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: wdahler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Will Dahler) City: Columbus (the big one) Best: Snow peas, cabbage, and onions Worst: Eggplant, potatoes, and sweet corn (61)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic S. Cusanelli) City: Frederick, Maryland Best: All hot pepper plants faired well. Thai, Cayenne, Jalapeno, Hot Cherry. Also Cubannelle peppers are doing extremely well (I have one plant over 6' tall). All these pepper plants are huge and producing well. Worst: Cuccumbers, the extreemly hot temps killed them off early with low production. Second planting unsuccessful. Most tomatoe varieties (Early, Better boy, Delicious)were way off production mark. Plum tomatoes faired all right, but not too well. (62)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Comment on submission by Tony Wallis [Tony@nexus.yorku.ca] who wrote: ">Best : lawn grasses >Worst : maize = corn (a bit odd, because maize is a grass)" Maize is a tropical grass. I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada] (63)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Jerry Young Comment on submission by Mark A. Breland [breland@mcc.com] who wrote: ">Worst plant: Cucumbers (they just won't do diddley!)" Funny. This year we decided not to do vegetables, but a couple of cucumber plants volunteered out of the compost I used to plant an Erythrina herbacea. It's in a xeriscape part of our yard, but we got a dozen or so healthy cukes. Of course that was mostly before our 60+ rainless/dozen or so 100+ days. (64)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jareed@rodan.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed) Message-ID: <1993Aug26.164821.11718@newstand.syr.edu> Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 16:48:20 EDT This submission was scrambled on my Net and couldn't be put back together again. Apoligies to Judith. (65)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: gcampbel@sneakers.prime.com (Gerry Campbell ) City: Medford (just outside Boston) Best: Tomatoes (Early Girl and Sweet 100), Cucumbers (early) Worst: Most flowers (66)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com (Chuck Linsley) City: Mountain View (near San Jose), CA Weather: Mild, wet winter; wet spring; dry, very hot summer Best: Tomatoes: After a slow start, the Ruby Pearls are doing a fair imitation of kudzu. Just beginning to ripen fruit -- delicious. Planted far too many. Anybody want some tomatoes? Nasturtiums: Did very well until overrun by tomatoes. Plum: (I wish I knew what variety -- yellow-orange skin). Delicious, more fruit than we could harvest, let alone eat. Lavender: (Lavendula dentata & hybrid 'Rabbit Ear'). Taking over the front of the house. Spearmint: (Mentha spicata). Taking over the side of the house. Worst: Northrup-King "Shady Plant Mix". Zero germination. Carrots: Germinated, than nothing. Serrano pepper:Only one seedling survived transplanting and the ensuing onslaught of earwigs. It hasn't even bloomed, let alone produced fruit. Spinach:Bolted so fast we got no harvest. Peas: The 2 or 3 pods we got were wonderful, but we planted too late. They were just starting to produce when the summer heat killed them. Worst timing by an otherwise good plant: Sweet peas. My wife *really* wanted sweet peas for her wedding flowers (14 February). We planted a "winter-blooming" variety last fall. They finally bloomed 9 weeks after our wedding. I moved into a new house last summer, and this was my first attempt at a real garden in many years. It was my wife's first-ever attempt at a garden. We learned a few things. :-) Buy seeds early, before the varieties you want sell out. Plant cool weather crops early. If 25 cherry tomato seedlings sprout, don't transplant all of them. (67)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: saari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.EDU (Susan J Saari) City: Columbus, Ohio Best: Roma tomatoes, bush beans (mixture from Shephard Seed of purple, yellow, and green), large zinnias Worst: gladiolas (what a disappointment, got special new bulbs from Park and planted a dozen every week for 8 weeks, only picked 6 flowers), roses, scarlet runner beans (pretty flowers, but no beans) OK: cucumbers (yeah! first success in a long time with these, planted them in front of my large flower bed, they climbed on lilacs and other bushes), snap dragons from seed I have spent the last 6 weeks dragging my hoses around the yard and trying to keep all the perennials, trees, and bushes alive. I've lost an astilbe, and my azalias, so far. I wish we would get some rain and a break in these temperatures in the 90s. All in all, this summer was better for vegetables and last was better for flowers. (68)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kls@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth L Shellberg) City: Columbus, Ohio Zone 5 Best: Due to our mild winter and spring, all spring flowering shrubs and trees were spectacular city-wide. In addition, Clethra was good, and now Caryopteris and Buddlia are doing well, and Lespedeza thunbergii is just starting. Perennials: Aruncus, Brunnera, Anemone, Rudbeckia, and the balloon flower 'Komachi' (or somesuch - the flowers never open, but stay as blue balloons until they fade), and daylilies were great. And while most hosta look terrible, mostly due to slugs and the heat, 'Sum and Substance, Frances Williams,' 'Snow Cap,' and 'Regal Spendor' continue to look great into September. Worst:Chrysanthemum 'Shasta,' Salvia 'May Night,' Potentilla 'Miss Wilmot', Sciadopitys verticillat died, Due to powdery mildew, phlox and ligularia. We've not had significant rain since mid July, so it's a struggle to keep plants from showing signs of drought and heat stress. (69)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Comment on submission by Paul Harvey [pharvey@quack.kfu.com] who wrote: "Maize is a tropical grass. I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada" Sweetcorn grows well in Southern Canada. Field corn will not ripen properly except right along the canadian border and in the large area that is between Lake Huron and lakes Erie and Ontario. Special sweetcorn varieties are available for other parts of canada that do not have summer frost; Stokes carries a good selection. U.S varieties do not do well there because long days prolong the vegetative period and slow maturity. U.S varieties also do not do well in the tropics for the opposite reason, the short days hasten maturity and result in a stand of pygmy plants. For the same reason the "Special varieties" mentioned above for Central and Northwest Canada and Alaska do not do well in the lower 48 states. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!aurs01!roberson Wed Sep 1 20:27:57 EDT 1993 Article: 183 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!aurs01!roberson From: roberson@aurs01.UUCP (Charles "Chip" Roberson) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Xeriscape & Landscapers/Designers Keywords: Xeriscape Landscaping Raleigh Message-ID: <65890@aurs01.UUCP> Date: 1 Sep 93 14:07:54 GMT Sender: news@aurs01.UUCP Distribution: triangle Organization: Alcatel Network Systems, Inc., Raleigh, NC Lines: 37 I have a 2-year old house that desperately needs some landscaping. My section of the subdivision is built on an old soybean farm with no trees, poor and compacted soil, plus other challenges. I'm finally getting to the point where I can invest in some landscaping. I picked up the Xeriscape(TM) Raleigh publication and was wondering if anyone else has tried to xeriscape (dry landscape) their yard? I'd like to hear about it if you did. Also, I think I need professional help! ;-) I'm looking for somebody who takes a progressive view to land management. (Preferably somebody who promotes the principles of xeriscaping and organic pest management.) These are (some of) my goals: 0) Develop a healthy ecosystem in my (small) yard. 1) Develop reasonable turf areas & proper drainage. 2) Provide a sound buffer from an adjacent road. 3) Provide shade for parts of the house. 4) Minimize maintenance & water usage. 5) Attract birds. 6) Minimize the use of chemicals. I would like to hear recommendations of people who will work with me to plan my yard and then work with me (over a period of time) to follow the plan. Unfortunately, money is a consideration! (but I don't need to do it all right now). Thanks, Chip PS: Any money saving ideas will be appreciated, *greatly*! :: Alcatel Network Systems * 2912 Wake Forest Road * Raleigh, NC 27609 :: :: Phone: +1 (919) 850-5011 FAX: +1 (919) 850-5588 :: :: Roberson@AUR.Alcatel.com :: From samba.oit.unc.edu!jsk Wed Sep 1 20:27:58 EDT 1993 Article: 184 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!jsk From: jsk@med.unc.edu (Julia Shaw Kokot) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Re: poison ivy Date: 1 Sep 1993 17:35:08 GMT Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine Lines: 15 Sender: jsk.med.unc.edu Message-ID: <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu> References: <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> <1993Aug30.122855.9732@mlb.semi.harris.com> <1993Aug30.165138.8604@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: pelham.med.unc.edu Another Roundup testimonial! We have a wooded lot with lots of unwanted vegetation including poison ivy. Last year we sprayed several large and very vigorous ropes and patches of poison ivy with Roundup. Not the industrial stuff, but the basic WalMart premixed solution. And, this year the poison ivy did not return! ('Course now we finding it in other spots, but they will be sprayed soon!) I resisted using a chemical for quite a while, but nothing else seemed to work on the poison ivy. This topic was covered on consumer.house, and after reading all the comments we gave it a try. Not only did the Roundup kill the poison ivy, but it didn't harm anything that wasn't sprayed. So, while one of the ropes was on a very young dogwood tree, there was no damage to the tree. Julia From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Wed Sep 1 20:27:58 EDT 1993 Article: 185 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Re: poison ivy Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 18:05:37 GMT References: <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> <1993Aug30.122855.9732@mlb.semi.harris.com> <1993Aug30.165138.8604@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 18 In article <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu>, jsk@med.unc.edu (Julia Shaw Kokot) writes: |> Another Roundup testimonial! I am having my lawn reseeded. There were so many weeds and the grass is in such bad shape that the landscaper came in and used Roundup on the whole yard the other day. He will seed within two weeks (whether or not it rains in the interim) and will guarantee 90% germination at that time. I was concerned about trees and he assured me that if you kill a tree with Roundup, it won't be by accident. While it will kill almost anything you apply it to, it must be applied properly to work effectively. -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sch Wed Sep 1 20:27:59 EDT 1993 Article: 186 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sch From: sch@unx.sas.com (Steve Holzworth) Subject: Re: poison ivy Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 21:59:02 GMT References: <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> <1993Aug30.122855.9732@mlb.semi.harris.com> <1993Aug30.165138.8604@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: gargoyle.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 33 sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) writes: >In article <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu>, jsk@med.unc.edu (Julia Shaw Kokot) writes: >|> Another Roundup testimonial! >in the interim) and will guarantee 90% germination at that time. I was >concerned about trees and he assured me that if you kill a tree with Roundup, >it won't be by accident. While it will kill almost anything you apply it to, >it must be applied properly to work effectively. Roundup is absorbed through the leaves of plants. It interferes with their ability to transport water. It also goes inert after a short period of time, so it's well suited for killing an old lawn before reseeding. They make a brush-and-woody-plant version which is somewhat stronger. It might work better/faster on poison ivy. It can take several weeks before the plant obviously begins to die. Roundup also has a max. ambient temperature rating around 90 degrees. Past that, it either breaks down totally, or at least doesn't work as well. Read the label. >-- >-Andy >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com -- Steve Holzworth sch@unx.sas.com "Do not attribute to poor spelling x6872 That which is actually poor typing..." SAS Institute - Open Systems R & D - me Cary, N.C. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!kmedenfe Wed Sep 1 20:27:59 EDT 1993 Article: 187 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!kmedenfe From: kmedenfe@eos.ncsu.edu (KATRINA EDENFELD) Subject: Re: Roses Message-ID: <1993Sep1.134933.25469@ncsu.edu> Originator: kmedenfe@c00807-247dan.eos.ncsu.edu Keywords: fungus Sender: kmedenfe@eos.ncsu.edu (KATRINA MARIE EDENFELD) Reply-To: kmedenfe@eos.ncsu.edu (KATRINA EDENFELD) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos References: <19632@news.duke.edu> <1993Aug30.140831.14145@brtph560.bnr.ca> Distribution: triangle Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 13:49:33 GMT Lines: 8 I have no experience with roses, but i have a friend who works at a nursery who does. they had a bad fungus problem about a month ago and cut the roses back to almost nothing. They came back amazingly quickly, and when they did he sprayed them weekly with an insecticide/fungicide combination. they are now blooming like crazy and have no problems with insects or black spot, and you would never guess that they looked like sticks not too long ago! From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasrer Thu Sep 2 03:18:23 EDT 1993 Article: 188 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasrer From: sasrer@unx.sas.com (Rodney Radford) Subject: Re: poison ivy Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 00:56:44 GMT References: <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> <1993Aug30.122855.9732@mlb.semi.harris.com> <1993Aug30.165138.8604@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cinnamon.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 29 sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) writes: > I am having my lawn reseeded. There were so many weeds and the grass is in >such bad shape that the landscaper came in and used Roundup on the whole >yard the other day. He will seed within two weeks (whether or not it rains >in the interim) and will guarantee 90% germination at that time. I was >concerned about trees and he assured me that if you kill a tree with Roundup, >it won't be by accident. While it will kill almost anything you apply it to, >it must be applied properly to work effectively. This is exactly what I did 3 years ago when I reseeded my lawn. I first sprayed with Roundup and waited for all the weeds (and a few grass blades) to die (I actually waited 5 weeks, 3 weeks more than is recommended on the Roundup label) before tilling the soil and planting. I had NO problems with weeds the next two years (although this year I am having problems with weed seeds blowing from our new neighbor's yard ;-{). This is much easier than trying to get rid of the weeds later as many of the weed treatments are also harmful to new grass blades. This was also the technique recommended by the Wake County Agr. Ext. Agency when seeding a yard in an area with lots of weeds. BTW, the Ext. Agency has a great course on lawn care/maintenance that is free - call them for the time/date. -- --- Rodney Radford || Computer Graphics/Imaging sasrer@unx.sas.com || SAS Institute, Inc. (919) 677-8000 x7703 || Cary, NC 27513 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Thu Sep 2 10:37:35 EDT 1993 Article: 189 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Roundup - cane? Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 11:51:52 GMT References: <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> <1993Aug30.122855.9732@mlb.semi.harris.com> <1993Aug30.165138.8604@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 25 In article , sch@unx.sas.com (Steve Holzworth) writes: |> Roundup is absorbed through the leaves of plants. It interferes with their |> ability to transport water. It also goes inert after a short period of time, |> so it's well suited for killing an old lawn before reseeding. They make |> a brush-and-woody-plant version which is somewhat stronger. It might |> work better/faster on poison ivy. It can take several weeks before the |> plant obviously begins to die. Roundup also has a max. ambient temperature |> rating around 90 degrees. Past that, it either breaks down totally, |> or at least doesn't work as well. Read the label. Has anyone had any experience using it on cane? I had thought of doing that in one area of my back yard, but I did not know how Roundup worked at the time and was afraid of damage to trees (it is in a heavily wooded area). If Roundup doesn't do it, what will? Last winter I pulled a *lot* of cane and it seems it all just came right back in the spring. -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com Andy's rule of software standards specifications: "If you understand it, it must be obsolete." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!brtph678!markham Fri Sep 3 10:30:52 EDT 1993 Article: 190 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!brtph678!markham From: markham@brtph678.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) Subject: Re: poison ivy Message-ID: <1993Sep3.125330.8622@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: BNR Inc. RTP, NC References: <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 12:53:30 GMT Lines: 28 sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) writes: > > I am having my lawn reseeded. There were so many weeds and the grass is in >such bad shape that the landscaper came in and used Roundup on the whole >yard the other day. Well, we are considering the same, only my wife is concerned with how the same application will affect the frogs that live in and around our borders and cross our lawn nightly to munch on bugs in my wife's vegetable garden. Anyone have any idea how Roundup risiduals would affect frogs (both directly and indirectly)? >He will seed within two weeks (whether or not it rains in the interim) and >will guarantee 90% germination at that time. On a related note, who did you speak with? I had Hammerstone come out and although last year's flyer (which I still have) guarantees 90% germination, this year's flyer only guarantees 70%. Would you also mind sharing your estimates for those of us on a budget? Thanks in advance! -- Andy Markham markham@bnr.ca [ .sig under construction ] BNR, Inc. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Fri Sep 3 22:12:47 EDT 1993 Article: 191 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Re: poison ivy Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 14:26:36 GMT References: <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu> <1993Sep3.125330.8622@brtph560.bnr.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 41 In article <1993Sep3.125330.8622@brtph560.bnr.ca>, markham@brtph678.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes: |> On a related note, who did you speak with? I had Hammerstone come out and |> although last year's flyer (which I still have) guarantees 90% germination, |> this year's flyer only guarantees 70%. Hmm, that is interesting. Because it is Hammerstone. They gave me the flyer in the spring with the 70% number, and only came back out to update their quote (a little more area has been cleared for lawn) and gave me a flyer that says 90%! So I was under the impression that they had improved the guarantee. |> Would you also mind sharing your estimates for those of us on a budget? $192 to seed the lawn. It's about 7000 sq foot or so, but they gave me their "standard" price for a 5500 and did not add any extra. I think they eyeballed it and perhaps did not realize that I have a larger lot than most of my neighbors. I certainly did not point this out. The price includes lime and seed, and they will use a different mix of seed in shady areas. They came out and applied Roundup for $30. They are offerring a program to come out and fertilize every 2 or 3 months for $32 per visit. I haven't decided on that yet. They did some work on adjacent lots which looks *very* good, and the people who hired them were happy with the service and results. Unfortunately I lost a lot of topsoil due to drainage problems coupled with the builder's failure to get a lawn established, so I am having to get a few loads brought it. This is setting me back more than the lawn (this is not through Hammerstone; they usually suggest against bringing in dirt, but my side yard is an extreme case). It's costing me $450 for 3 15 yd loads and another $150 to get it pushed around! -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com First rule of software standards specifications: "If you understand it, it must be obsolete." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!aurs01!roberson Fri Sep 3 22:12:48 EDT 1993 Article: 192 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!aurs01!roberson From: roberson@aurs01.UUCP (Charles "Chip" Roberson) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Rake & Hoe Landscape Design Group - Any experience? Message-ID: <65993@aurs01.UUCP> Date: 3 Sep 93 14:21:14 GMT Sender: news@aurs01.UUCP Distribution: triangle Organization: Alcatel Network Systems, Inc., Raleigh, NC Lines: 25 Rake & Hoe (Six Forks Road in Raleigh) has a Landscape Design Group that does the following: In-House consultation On-Site consultation and sketch Master Planting Plan Horticulture Information Landscape Installation Personal Supervision of Landscape Installation Has anybody used any of these services? In general, I've had good experiences with Rake & Hoe as a walk-in customer but I'm stepping things up a bit. I was hoping for more information about other service providers but I haven't heard anything yet; so I'll probably go with Rake & Hoe. I'd still like to hear about your experiences. Thanks, Chip :: Alcatel Network Systems * 2912 Wake Forest Road * Raleigh, NC 27609 :: :: Phone: +1 (919) 850-5011 FAX: +1 (919) 850-5588 :: :: Roberson@AUR.Alcatel.com :: From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!wolves!circle!lance Fri Sep 3 22:12:48 EDT 1993 Article: 193 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!wolves!circle!lance From: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Re: poison ivy Message-ID: <930902.233704.9R6.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> Date: 3 Sep 93 04:37:04 GMT References: <1993Aug23.174402.28220@mlb.semi.harris.com> <930827.002856.6X8.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> <1993Aug30.122855.9732@mlb.semi.harris.com> Organization: The Full Circle - Raleigh NC - DOS/Waffle 1.65 Lines: 20 X-Newsreader: rusnews v1.05 peters@rastaban.rtp.semi.harris.com (Steve Peters x678) writes: > Many plants require a few applications of roundup to do more than kill leaves > or make the plant sick. Perennials usually need to be rounded up two seasons Intersting. I wonder if the sell Roundup at different concentrations or something? Maybe people dilute it. My whole experience with using roundup has been as a farmhand riding a "bean bar" on the front of a tractor. You sit in a bucket seat and use a long snouted spray gun to put roundup on weeds and other undesired plants in soy bean fields. Just a few drops of the roundup we were using would kill volunteer corn from last years crop, button weed, thistles, etc. Lance -- The Full Circle unable to locate coffee: operator halted Domain: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown) [ preferred ] PGP Public key block available upon request From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!aurs01!roberson Fri Sep 3 22:12:49 EDT 1993 Article: 194 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!aurs01!roberson From: roberson@aurs01.UUCP (Charles "Chip" Roberson) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Re: poison ivy Message-ID: <65998@aurs01.UUCP> Date: 3 Sep 93 19:42:29 GMT References: <1993Sep3.125330.8622@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@aurs01.UUCP Reply-To: roberson@aurxc7.aur.alcatel.com.UUCP (Charles "Chip" Roberson) Organization: Alcatel Network Systems, Inc., Raleigh, NC Lines: 16 > Unfortunately I lost a lot of topsoil due to drainage problems coupled with > the builder's failure to get a lawn established, so I am having to get a > few loads brought it. This is setting me back more than the lawn (this is > not through Hammerstone; they usually suggest against bringing in dirt, Why would anyone suggest against bringing in topsoil? I'm about to kill my weeds (er, I mean, "lawn"), till the soil, and add some soil from the city compost. What is the reasoning against adding the soil? Oh, somewhere in there I'm going to add some lime, too. Cheers, Chip :: Alcatel Network Systems * 2912 Wake Forest Road * Raleigh, NC 27609 :: :: Phone: +1 (919) 850-5011 FAX: +1 (919) 850-5588 :: :: Roberson@AUR.Alcatel.com :: From tomm@cup.hp.com Sat Sep 4 22:23:50 EDT 1993 Article: 22197 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!tomm From: tomm@cup.hp.com (Tom McNeal) Subject: Re: Hierloom seeds? Sender: news@cupnews0.cup.hp.com (News Admin) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 15:53:50 GMT References: <261117$dc9@dorsai.dorsai.org> <93244.162233U14371@uicvm.uic.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: hpindadb.cup.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.3] Lines: 20 U14371@uicvm.uic.edu wrote: : You can get heirloom seeds via the Seed Savers Exchange : Decorah, Iowa. I don't have the address handy, but can get The address is: 3076 N. Winn Rd. Decorah, Iowa 52101 That is their office - I think the old RR3, Box 239 address is Kent Whealey's (the founder) home address. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------- tomm@hpindada.cup.hp.com Tom McNeal at Hewlett-Packard's Information Networks Division 19410 Homestead Rd., M.S. 43UE, Cupertino, CA 95014 (408)447-2300 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From kfoster@adobe.com Sat Sep 4 22:25:16 EDT 1993 Article: 22099 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!decwrl!adobe!kfoster From: kfoster@adobe.com (Kathleen Foster) Subject: Best in 93 Message-ID: <1993Sep1.191829.28688@adobe.com> Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 19:18:29 GMT Lines: 9 My Best in '93 Kathleen L. Foster Redwood City, CA Best: Tomatoes: Rutgers, San Maranzo types, Basil, purple bush beans and white corn Worst: Saladin cucumbers (pickle type doing okay), sunflowers, rhubarb From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!wolves!circle!lance Sun Sep 5 10:01:43 EDT 1993 Article: 195 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!wolves!circle!lance From: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Re: poison ivy Message-ID: <930904.170702.8S4.rusnews.w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us> Date: 4 Sep 93 22:07:02 GMT References: <1993Aug30.165138.8604@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> <262mgc$f92@samba.oit.unc.edu> Organization: The Full Circle - Raleigh NC - DOS/Waffle 1.65 Lines: 16 X-Newsreader: rusnews v1.05 sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) writes: > it won't be by accident. While it will kill almost anything you apply it to, > it must be applied properly to work effectively. That is one of the things that amazes me about Roundup. It is used in most soy bean fields as I described in a post a couple days ago, but does NOT find its way into the beans after it kills whatever weeds you hit with it. I wonder if it has a short chemical halflife and degrades quickly or something. Lance -- The Full Circle unable to locate coffee: operator halted Domain: lance@circle.raleigh.nc.us (Lance A. Brown) [ preferred ] PGP Public key block available upon request From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Fri Sep 10 13:09:00 EDT 1993 Article: 196 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Re: poison ivy Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 19:19:53 GMT References: <1993Sep3.125330.8622@brtph560.bnr.ca> <65998@aurs01.UUCP> Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 38 In article <65998@aurs01.UUCP>, roberson@aurs01.UUCP (Charles "Chip" Roberson) writes: |> > Unfortunately I lost a lot of topsoil due to drainage problems coupled with |> > the builder's failure to get a lawn established, so I am having to get a |> > few loads brought it. This is setting me back more than the lawn (this is |> > not through Hammerstone; they usually suggest against bringing in dirt, |> |> Why would anyone suggest against bringing in topsoil? I'm about to kill |> my weeds (er, I mean, "lawn"), till the soil, and add some soil from the |> city compost. What is the reasoning against adding the soil? In most cases they feel it is just an unnecessary expense. If the soil is adequate for growing grass (it's not like I am planting corn or oats) then why pay for top grade dirt? Most of my yard does have a layer of reasonably good dirt over the layer of clay, except where the drainage is so bad. I checked around my neighborhood and was surprised to find that some of the better looking lawns (which Hammerstone did) are in fact growing very well in that red dirt. I am still having a little spread to even out some minor countour problems also. Anyway, they did not suggest that it would have a negative effect on the lawn, just your wallet. |> |> Oh, somewhere in there I'm going to add some lime, too. |> |> Cheers, |> Chip |> :: Alcatel Network Systems * 2912 Wake Forest Road * Raleigh, NC 27609 :: |> :: Phone: +1 (919) 850-5011 FAX: +1 (919) 850-5588 :: |> :: Roberson@AUR.Alcatel.com :: -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com First rule of software standards specifications: "If you understand it, it must be obsolete." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!brtph803!saud Fri Sep 10 13:09:01 EDT 1993 Article: 197 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!brtph803!saud From: saud@brtph803 (Steve Aud P205) Subject: Re: Rake & Hoe Landscape Design Group - Any experience? Message-ID: <1993Sep6.204209.23606@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: BNR Inc. References: <65993@aurs01.UUCP> Distribution: triangle Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1993 20:42:09 GMT Lines: 15 In article <65993@aurs01.UUCP>, roberson@aurs01.UUCP (Charles "Chip" Roberson) writes: > Rake & Hoe (Six Forks Road in Raleigh) has a Landscape Design > Group .... > > I'd still like to hear about your experiences. I'm considering Rake & Hoe also (got the flyer last week). Please post responses. Thanks, Steve saud@bnr.ca From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!brtph894!riversk Fri Sep 10 22:33:33 EDT 1993 Article: 198 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!brtph894!riversk From: riversk@brtph894 (Karen Rivers P875) Subject: Re: Rake & Hoe Landscape Design Group Message-ID: <1993Sep10.193444.12953@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: BNR Inc. Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 19:34:44 GMT Lines: 21 We used Rake & Hoe design services 3 years ago, and just called them back to do our new house this week. Both times we used Jill. She did a very nice job last time, and we expect she'll do the same again. If you use her, please tell her we recommended her. I'm not sure about fees, but I think it's about $80 for the first hour, and then $40/hour after that. This is charged against time talking w/ the consultant on your land, and then her own time measuring your property, and drawing up a plan. If you want referrals of people to do the work (cutting down trees, making beds, planting shrubs, etc.) they'll give you that information. We really like having a plan to work from. They take into consideration our needs and wants. Karen Rivers riversk@bnr.ca From cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil Sun Sep 12 22:25:32 EDT 1993 Article: 21934 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!cusanell From: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic S. Cusanelli) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <42501@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 29 Aug 93 12:47:12 GMT References: Reply-To: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic Cusanelli) Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD Lines: 15 "93 garden production: \ City: Frederick, Maryland Best Plant(s): All hot pepper plants faired well. Thai, Cayenne, Jalapeno, Hot Cherry. Also Cubannelle peppers are doing extreemly well (I have one plant over 6' tall) All these pepper plants are huge and producing well. Worst Plant(s): Cuccumbers, the extreemly hot temps killed them off early with low production. Second planting unsuccessful Most tomatoe varieties (Early, Better boy, Delicious) were way off production mark. Plum tomatoes faired all right, but not too well. Please post a summary of all the responses you get. Thanks From gcampbel@sneakers.prime.com Sun Sep 12 22:25:37 EDT 1993 Article: 22006 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!linus!cvbnet!sneakers!gcampbel From: gcampbel@sneakers.prime.com (Gerry Campbell ) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@cvbnet.CV.COM (News Account ) Nntp-Posting-Host: sneakers Organization: ComputerVision References: Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 19:05:26 GMT Lines: 13 ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) writes: > > What is your best grower this year? I'm curious what has been successful in > different parts of the country with the extreme weather fluctuations we've > been having. Has anything done unusually well this summer? Unusually unwell? > Here in Ottawa (Cda) my best would be chili peppers and worst is snow peas. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > City: Medford (just outside Boston) > Best plant: Tomatoes (Early Girl and Sweet 100), Cucumbers (early) > Worst plant: Most flowers > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From shimeall@cs.nps.navy.mil Sun Sep 12 22:25:43 EDT 1993 Article: 22047 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil!shimeall From: shimeall@cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: news@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey References: <1993Aug27.150027.1@pbs.org> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:54:30 GMT Lines: 9 Place: Monterey, CA (USDA Zone 9, Sunset Zone 17) Best plant: Yellow Squash (although cherry tomatoes are coming along) Worst plant: Non-green sweet peppers (most failed to germinate, some that did have been VERY slow growing) Biggest problem: A gopher that must have had the part in Caddyshack (so far, he's survived flood, traps, gas, electronic stakes and neighborhood cats -- next year I put in wire cages under my plants!) From jhb@cvsd.cv.com Sun Sep 12 22:25:50 EDT 1993 Article: 22160 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!calmasd!sol!jhb From: jhb@cvsd.cv.com (Jim Bishop) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Sep2.130202.1542@cvsd.cv.com> Date: 2 Sep 93 21:02:02 GMT References: <1993Aug25.162834.9895@adobe.com> <1993Aug25.230708.28887@news.mentorg.com> Organization: - Lines: 11 City: Encinitas, CA Best Plants: Digitalis that reached over 10 feet (might also qualify as weirdest). Ruby chard also topped out over 8 feet (No vistor ever successfully identified it) Worst Plants: Basil (I guess I waited to long to set out the plants and they never really got going) Lots of stuff that rotted during last winter's deluge. I've never had alyssum drown before. Jim From vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com Sun Sep 12 22:25:55 EDT 1993 Article: 22008 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!compass-da!rat!linsley From: vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com (Chuck Linsley) Subject: Re: Your best in '93 Message-ID: <1993Aug30.204707.20797@compass-da.com> Sender: usenet@compass-da.com (Usenet News) Reply-To: vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com (Chuck Linsley) Organization: VLSI Technology, Inc., San Jose, CA, USA Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 20:47:07 GMT Lines: 64 In article , John Foulds writes: |> |> What is your best grower this year? I moved into a new house last summer, and this was my first attempt at a real garden in many years. It was my wife's first-ever attempt at a garden. We learned a few things. :-) Buy seeds early, before the varieties you want sell out. Plant cool weather crops early. If 25 cherry tomato seedlings sprout, don't transplant all of them. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- City: Mountain View (near San Jose), CA Weather: Mild, wet winter; wet spring; dry, very hot summer Best plant: Tomatoes After a slow start, the Ruby Pearls are doing a fair imitation of kudzu. Just beginning to ripen fruit -- delicious. Planted far too many. Anybody want some tomatoes? Nasturtiums Did very well until overrun by tomatoes. Plum (I wish I knew what variety -- yellow-orange skin) Delicious, more fruit than we could harvest, let alone eat. Lavender (Lavendula dentata & hybrid 'Rabbit Ear') Taking over the front of the house. Spearmint (Mentha spicata) Taking over the side of the house. Worst plant: Northrup-King "Shady Plant Mix" Zero germination. Carrots Germinated, than nothing. Serrano pepper Only one seedling survived transplanting and the ensuing onslaught of earwigs. It hasn't even bloomed, let alone produced fruit. Spinach Bolted so fast we got no harvest. Peas The 2 or 3 pods we got were wonderful, but we planted too late. They were just starting to produce when the summer heat killed them. Worst timing by an otherwise good plant: Sweet peas My wife *really* wanted sweet peas for her wedding flowers (14 February). We planted a "winter-blooming" variety last fall. They finally bloomed 9 weeks after our wedding. -- Chuck Linsley Don't trust 'Reply.' vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com seems to work, but if you can find a better path, I'd love to find out about it. From pharvey@quack.kfu.com Sun Sep 12 22:26:20 EDT 1993 Article: 21945 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: Best/Worst growers Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: <1993Aug25.205853.28198@netwise.com> Date: 29 Aug 1993 23:01:03 UTC Lines: 8 In article tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes: >Best : lawn grasses >Worst : maize = corn (a bit odd, because maize is a grass) >tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, North York, Canada. Maize is a tropical grass. I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada] From gwv@eastrg2.cray.com Sun Sep 12 22:26:26 EDT 1993 Article: 21987 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!eastrg2!gwv From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Subject: Re: Best/Worst growers Message-ID: <1993Aug30.112148.11378@walter.cray.com> Lines: 28 Sender: gwv@eastrg2 (George Vandenberghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: eastrg2-gate.cray.com Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: <1993Aug25.205853.28198@netwise.com> Date: 30 Aug 93 11:21:48 CDT In article , pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes: |> In article |> tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes: |> >Best : lawn grasses |> >Worst : maize = corn (a bit odd, because maize is a grass) |> >tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, North York, Canada. |> |> Maize is a tropical grass. I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to |> grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada] Sweetcorn grows well in Southern Canada. Field corn will not ripen properly except right along the canadian border and in the large area that is between Lake Huron and lakes Erie and Ontario. Special sweetcorn varieties are available for other parts of canada that do not have summer frost; Stokes carries a good selection. U.S varieties do not do well there because long days prolong the vegetative period and slow maturity. U.S varieties also do not do well in the tropics for the opposite reason, the short days hasten maturity and result in a stand of pygmy plants. For the same reason the "Special varieties" mentioned above for Central and Northwest Canada and Alaska do not do well in the lower 48 states. From kfletcher@commerce.cba.uiuc.edu Sun Sep 12 22:27:19 EDT 1993 Article: 22041 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!udel!wupost!crcnis1.unl.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!fletcher.cba.uiuc.edu!kfletcher From: kfletcher@commerce.cba.uiuc.edu (Karen Fletcher) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: good book on greenhouse? Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:34:54 GMT Organization: College of Commerce Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <25slq2$6ab@news.ysu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: fletcher.cba.uiuc.edu In article <25slq2$6ab@news.ysu.edu> al401@yfn.ysu.edu (David R. Smith) writes: >From: al401@yfn.ysu.edu (David R. Smith) >Subject: good book on greenhouse? >Date: 30 Aug 1993 10:46:26 GMT >any recommendations for good book on growing vegetables, fruits >etc. (not flowers or other non edibles) in a greenhouse >situation? >I am looking for a pretty detailed book with light and >temperature requirements, if possible and I understand >some vegetables and greens are more susceptible to problems >in greenhouses and some really are not worth trying at >all. >thanks for any info on source material. >David Smith Shane Smith Greenhouse Gardener's Companion (exact title escapes me) This has a lot of solid info and covers growing food. From judith@mermaid.larc.nasa.gov Sun Sep 12 22:27:31 EDT 1993 Article: 22431 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!usenet From: judith@mermaid.larc.nasa.gov Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: good book on greenhouse? Date: 8 Sep 1993 20:56:39 GMT Organization: NASA/Langley Research Center Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: <26lgu7INN75o@rave.larc.nasa.gov> References: <25slq2$6ab@news.ysu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mollusk.larc.nasa.gov In article <25slq2$6ab@news.ysu.edu> al401@yfn.ysu.edu (David R. Smith) writes: > >any recommendations for good book on growing vegetables, fruits >etc. (not flowers or other non edibles) in a greenhouse >situation? >I am looking for a pretty detailed book with light and >temperature requirements, if possible and I understand >some vegetables and greens are more susceptible to problems >in greenhouses and some really are not worth trying at >all. >thanks for any info on source material. >David Smith > 'Be Your Own Greenhouse Expert' by Dr. D. G. Hessayon has just the information you want. It's a slim paperback from England. I believe I got mine from Storey's Books or some such. Judith Moore judith@mermaid.larc.nasa.gov From saari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.EDU Sun Sep 12 22:27:46 EDT 1993 Article: 21972 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.EDU!saari From: saari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.EDU (Susan J Saari) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: best in '93 Date: 30 Aug 1993 10:26:13 -0400 Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 19 Sender: daemon@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu City: Columbus, Ohio Best: Roma tomatoes, bush beans (mixture from Shephard Seed of purple, yellow, and green), large zinnias Worst: gladiolas (what a disappointment, got special new bulbs from Park and planted a dozen every week for 8 weeks, only picked 6 flowers), roses, scarlet runner beans (pretty flowers, but no beans) OK: cucumbers (yeah! first success in a long time with these, planted them in front of my large flower bed, they climbed on lilacs and other bushes), snap dragons from seed I have spent the last 6 weeks dragging my hoses around the yard and trying to keep all the perennials, trees, and bushes alive. I've lost an astilbe, and my azalias, so far. I wish we would get some rain and a break in these temperatures in the 90s. All in all, this summer was better for vegetables and last was better for flowers. Sue From dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu Sun Sep 12 22:28:09 EDT 1993 Article: 21979 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re:MOSS ROCK: Do you grow it on bare stones Date: 30 Aug 1993 15:32:56 GMT Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT Lines: 26 Distribution: na Message-ID: <25t6j8$rql@GRAPEVINE.LCS.MIT.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: im4.lcs.mit.edu >Newsgroups: rec.gardens >From: jsutton@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (james.a.sutton) >Subject: MOSS ROCK: Do you grow it on bare stones? >Message-ID: > >MOSS ROCK: How can I [do I] get it to grow on bare stones? > >I have a new light grey dry stone wall made of granite that sticks >out like a sore thumb. I would like to grow MOSS on the rocks in this >wall to break up the coloration. As I recall, spraying buttermilk on the wall will encourage lichens and mosses to grow as will keeping it sprinkled (damp) during dry spells. You don't have to innoculate it as the spores are in the air. I see lichens on rocks which were fresh as little as 5 years ago (they grow pretty slowly. :'( ) Real moss will not grow in really dry conditions so it depends on the location and shading of your stone wall, whether you can also get moss to grow on it. --Jill -- A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | MILLER MICROCOMPUTER SERVICES | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm -0400(EDT)| Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | MMSFORTH: The cure for the common code.| 42 18'00.79" N, 71 22'27.68" W| From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Sep 12 22:28:47 EDT 1993 Article: 22012 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Tomato diseases FAQ Message-ID: <1993Aug30.190155.16120@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 30 Aug 93 19:01:55 -0500 References: <1993Aug28.180055.16078@cobra.uni.edu> <25u178$917@ursula.ee.pdx.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 25 In article <25u178$917@ursula.ee.pdx.edu>, davidr@ursula.ee.pdx.edu (CATfish) writes: > klier@cobra.uni.edu writes: >>Mosaics: >>Seedlings can be dipped or sprayed >>with milk at least twice if they are suspected of being infected. > > I've never heard of using milk. What does it do, and why can it > only be used twice? Milk is a cheap and easily available protein solution... the virus binds to it instead of the plant... I always use it at least twice (not "only twice"). Milk won't do any good if the plants are actually infected, but in the cases of seed-coat-borne viral diseases, it's cheap insurance. My neighbor's father ran a truck garden for years. He ALWAYS soaked carrot and lettuce seeds in milk overnight before planting. He never knew why, just that it gave him better crops. I didn't know why either, until I took a plant virology course, and the prof mentioned protein binding... "Oh!" I said out loud in the midst of lecture... he stopped... "yes?" "Is that why Del soaks carrot seeds in milk?" "Don't know who Del is, but yes, that'll get seed coat viruses." And then he resumed the lecture... Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From sjh@cs.brown.edu Sun Sep 12 22:29:00 EDT 1993 Article: 22034 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!brunix!cs.brown.edu!sjh From: sjh@cs.brown.edu (suzi howe) Subject: BEST/WORST 93 Message-ID: <1993Aug31.131516.25304@cs.brown.edu> Followup-To: BEST/WORST 93 Keywords: BEST/WORST 93 Sender: news@cs.brown.edu Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept. Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 13:15:16 GMT Lines: 43 NOT a good year by any stretch - what the woodchucks left behind, the drought finished off! The plants listed as 'BEST' weathered the drought remarkably well. PLACE: Coventry, RI (middle of the state) BEST: Very pleased with bulbs purchased from Dutch Gardens -- Crocosmia, Peacock Orchids, Dahlias (Japanese beetles LOVE these, and it's a battle to keep a single perfect bloom for my camera! - same for hibiscus blooms) Scabiosa Summer bulb lilies (Dutch Gdns) Phlox (the tall kind) Asters Cleome Cosmos Rudbeckia Lavender Jacobs Ladder Astilbe Spuds WORST: Vegs of all other descriptions! -especially Basella Malabar spinach (but what a lovely plant when it grows well) Roses - Japanese beetles gottem Trillium Nasturtiums - variagated leaves -the less exotic variety did better Marigolds - remind me not to bother with them any more! Petunias - ditto Monarda - beetles again (think I'll try beetles traps next yr) :/ From s5uagm@fnma.COM Sun Sep 12 22:29:01 EDT 1993 Article: 22061 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!almserv!mardigras!s5uagm From: s5uagm@fnma.COM (Andrew Miller) Subject: Re: BEST/WORST 93 Message-ID: <1993Aug31.213014.26052@almserv.uucp> Keywords: Dahlia Sender: usenet@almserv.uucp Nntp-Posting-Host: mardigras Reply-To: s5uagm@fnma.COM Organization: Fannie Mae References: <1993Aug31.131516.25304@cs.brown.edu> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 21:30:14 GMT Lines: 29 In article 25304@cs.brown.edu, sjh@cs.brown.edu (suzi howe in RI) writes: >BEST: ..., Dahlias (Japanese beetles LOVE >these, and it's a battle to keep a single >perfect bloom for my camera! - same for >hibiscus blooms) > >WORST: ..., Roses - Japanese beetles gottem .. ( Near Wash. D.C. ) Around here the VERY serious Dahlia growers keep pinching back their plants until late August when the Japanese beetles are through for the year. All our shows are in late September, well after the beetles are gone. On the west coast the shows started as early as last weekend. The light colored blooms are more suseptible, but I never have really big problems with the beatles on Dahlia. I've had much worse problems with J.B.'s on roses. The scent of the roses draws them in by the pound. I only get rose blossoms in spring and fall, durring the summer I have to cut them in bud, or the beetles get them all. > >(think I'll try beetles traps next yr) > Only if you have a place to put it FAR away from your garden. - Andrew - ( who hopefully picked the last two Japanese beetles off his roses this morning. ) From ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca Sun Sep 12 22:29:42 EDT 1993 Article: 22067 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ae684 From: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Subject: RESULTS: Your best in '93 Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Organization: The National Capital Freenet Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 00:49:36 GMT Lines: 827 Responses to --- "Your Best in '93" ----------- Introduction------------------------------------------------- Many, many thanks to each of you who replied. The next step is to try and do some analytical work on the submissions to see if there are any degrees of significance. If anyone has a problem with the format of the text file (ie. CR/LF) let me know and I'll fix it for you. Hope you enjoy the reading as much as I did. Memorable quotes from the responses: (1) I hate to say it but we don't have a worst plant or vegetable (2) even my mother is very impressed and she has had one (garden) as long as I can remember (3) Worst: Azalia (died) :-( (my wife is gonna kill me for that one) (4) Worst: Cucumbers (they just won't do diddley!) (5) Poblano chile (just lost the will to live) (6) Organic til I die... (7) Best: Zucchini (help! help! I fought the squash & the squash won) (8) If the temperature stays mild enough I'm going to nurse these plants along until I get SOMETHING (9) Worst: Lawn! It's August 27 and I'm still having to cut regularily! (10) Best: ..Viola (they just keep going and g..) (11) Wierd weather! (12) .. would have been ok had the deer not knocked the stakes down like dominoes (13) Dayton, OH. (Zone 5, mainly, sometimes shown as a Zone 6, following the Great Miami River valley --who knows? It's hot!) (14) Worst: THE ^&#@%# Tomatoes! (15) This was our first year gardening. It's been a lot of work but well worth it. !! (16) I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada] (17) Best: the $1 per bush roses from Gurney's that I put out for a hedge. Worst: the expensive roses from Parks that I put next to the others, apparently the deer knew the difference :-( (18) This is my first usenet post - ever! (19) It's difficult to say what has done the best, probably the weeds :) And my personal favourite: (20) the jury is still out on my retarded (or, botanically challenged) habanero Hopefully someone will remember to try this again in the late Fall after the full season has ended. Happy harvesting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- Geographical Index -------------------------------------------- 1 Ottawa, Ontario 24 Seattle, WA 47 Dayton, OH 2 Westminster, MA 25 Monrovia, CA 48 Centreville,VA 3 Middleton, Idaho 26 Garland, TX 49 Phoenix, AZ 4 Chapel Hill, NC 27 Menlo Park, CA 50 Asheville, NC 5 St. Paul Park, MN 28 Seattle, WA 51 Sunnyvale, CA 6 Sacramento, CA 29 Austin, TX 52 Eugene, OR 7 Point of Rocks, MD 30 Oxford, MA 53 Yorktown, NY 8 Houston, TX 31 Northern Virginia 54 Woodbridge, VA 9 San Francisco, CA 32 Boulder, CO 55 Laurel, MD 10 Columbus, OH 33 Kitchener, Ontario 56 San Francisco,CA 11 San Francisco, CA 34 Andover, MA 57 Los Gatos Mtns, CA 12 Cleveland, OH 35 Raleigh, NC 58 Macon, GA 13 Lafayette, CO 36 Ames, IA 59 New Orleans,LA 14 Austin, TX 37 Hampton, VA 60 Columbus, OH 15 Columbus, OH 38 Seattle, WA 61 Frederick, MD 16 Portland, OR 39 Marvelville, Ontari 62 Austin, TX 17 Ottawa, Ontario 40 Bedford, MA 63 Area Code 408 18 Irvine, CA 41 Austin, TX 64 Syracuse, NY 19 Beltsville, MD 42 Chicago, IL 65 Medford, MA 20 Arlington, MA 43 Detroit, MI 66 Mountain View,CA 21 Oak Park, IL 44 Toronto, Ontario 67 Columbus, OH 22 Boulder, CO 45 Natick, MA 68 Columbus, OH 23 Sherwood, OR 46 Pattersonville, NY 69 Beltsville, MD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ Name index --------------------------------------------------- 5 Adams, David 17 Hoffman, Sandra P. 31 Purks, David 16 Bailey, Brian 10 Hoskins, James M. 64 Reed, Judith Anne 46 Barnett, Janet A. 3 Hypes, Gary 23 Reid, Richard 38 Beer, Bob 55 Karpen, Judy 26 Rogers, Daty 48 Blackwell, Ellie 58 Kespohl, Elke 67 Saari, Susan J. 12 Bowes, Keith William 9 Kolling, Karen 39 Seeley, Rick 14 Breland, Mark A. 42 Krueger, Kevin 68 Shellberg, Kenneth L. 43 Burgess, Joel 4 Kupstas, Eileen 8 Smith, Cyndi 65 Campbell, Gerry 34 Lan, Imagine (?) 18 Spitzer, Matt 6 Ching, Tracy 66 Linsley, Chuck 22 Stern, Ilana 53 Clarke, Ed 11 MacGilvra, Sara 2 Stomieroski, John C. 61 Cusanelli, Dominic S 52 Markham, L. 50 Strauss, Bob 60 Dahler, Will 25 Marks, Louise 37 Sweet, Jon 13 Dattore, Bob 15 Marlatt, Marty 40 Tallant, Anne 7 Day, Kevin 54 Mary [Cool Bean] 56 Tracy, Bridget 33 De Visser, S. 59 McCrory, Greg 69 Vandenberghe, George 1 Dodds, Diane 45 Miller, Dick & Jill 19 Vandenberghe, George 51 Fisher, Scott [Kim] 47 Molinaro, Elizabeth 49 Walker, Naomi 21 Goeckner, Hans 27 Much, Kathleen 44 Wallis, Anthony 30 Gunnarson, Martha 24 Neville, Dorothy 29 Wilkes, Clifford 62 Harvey, Paul 32 Nosbisch, Kathleen 41 Young, Jerry 36 Healey, Mary H. 20 Palay, Victoria 63 Young, Jerry 28 Henderson, Sarah 57 Powell, Anne M. 35 Yourch, James *NOTE: Reed, Judith Anne (64) scrambled due to communications error. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- **** The Submissions **** (1)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ac849@freenet.carleton.ca (Diane Dodds) City: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Best: got to be the nastursims I planted in an empty spot in the veggie garden. I started them from seed at Easter in the living room and transplanted them to the outdoors in the first week of June. Well these little guys now have leaves that are the size of dinner plates and vines about the size of cucumber vines. Worst: I hate to say it but we don't have a worst plant or vegetable. Everything is growing by leaps and bounds. I can't remember the other category, but like I say I havent seen a garden grow like this before - even my mother is very impressed and she has had one as long as I can remember. (2)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jzs@genrad.com (John C. Stomieroski) City: Westminster, MA (Zone 5) Best: Basil, thyme, rosemary, bergamot mint Worst: plant(s): Catmint, catnip, rose (starina), dill I grow herbs only. (3)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Gary Hypes City: Middleton, Idaho (near Boise) Best: Potatoes (red, white, and russets), Broccoli, kohl rabi, sugar snap peas, early frosty peas, dill Worst: Spinach (only one plant grew out of a row, and it tasted awful), lettuce (I'm trying again for fall) (4)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Eileen Kupstas City: Chapel Hill, NC (Zone 7) Best: Basil -- hot, dry summer here :-) Worst: Tomatoes -- " " " " :-( (5)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dadams@cherry.cray.com (David Adams) City: St Paul Park, MN Best: Tomatillos, Peas, Tomatoes Worst: potatoes, haberen~os, beets, turnups, horse raddish, (6)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: tching@target.uucp (Tracy Ching ) City: Sacramento Best: Spurge & Oxalis Worst: Azalia (died) :-( (my wife is gonna kill me for that one) (7)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day) City: Point of Rocks, Maryland Best: Brocolli, cucumbers, carrots, onions (sorry, couldn't pick just one) Worst: Cauliflower (8)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Cyndi Smith) City: Houston, TX, USA Best: Sweet Basil (two plants > 2 feet tall and about 1 foot diameter - led to far more basil than I can use/store/give away) Worst: Blue Lake Bush Beans (beautiful foliage but no flowers/beans) (also - bad luck with strawberries after early June attack by the dreaded slugs!) (9)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling) City: south of San Francisco Best: roses Worst: tomatoes (10)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) City: Columbus, Ohio, USA Best: Spring Lettuce/Green Beans Worst: Tomatoes (poorly developed plants, misshapen fruits, low yields) (11)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: HF.SXM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sara MacGilvra) City: East side of San Francisco Bay Best: Roses Worst: Sweet Peas (12)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: bk134@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Keith William Bowes) City: Cleveland, OH, USA Best: cantalopes (Ambrosia), asparagus (Jersey Knight), rhubarb. Worst: broccoli (by far much, much worse than usual) Mediocre: tomatoes (Better Boy, Celebrity), peppers (Bell Boy), onions (Walla Walla Sweet), garlic, shallots, corn (Honey N Pearl), potatoes (Yukon Gold, Kennebec) (13)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dattore@buckhorn.scd.ucar.edu (Bob Dattore) City: Lafayette, Colorado (near Denver/Boulder) Best: Squash (acorn & butternut), Garden Mum (3' tall, 3' diameter) Worst: Tomatoes (not had a single ripe on yet!) (14)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: breland@mcc.com (Mark A. Breland) City: Austin, Texas Best: Tomatoes (Heatwave, Better Boy, Celebrity) Worst: Cucumbers (they just won't do diddley!) (15)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: marty-m@cis.ohio-state.edu (Marty Marlatt) City: Columbus, Oh Best: Peppers, both hot and bell Worst: All other vegetables and flowers -- due to hail/wind storm (16)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: brianb@mentorg.com (Brian Bailey) City: Portland OR. Below average temperatures Best: Hydrangeas. Much bigger and deeper color than normal Worst: Tomatoes. What a flop ! (17)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: af280@Freenet.carleton.ca (Sandra P. Hoffman) City: Ottawa Best: Acorn Squash, with Pumpkin a close second Worst: Cabbage and Cauliflower. (I fed a lot of cabbage worms this year) (18)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mspitzer@sanger.bio.uci.edu (Matt Spitzer) City: Irvine, CA (south of LA) Best: Tomatoes (Better Boy, Celebrity), Thai chile, serrano chile, basil, red bellpepper (except they keep getting stolen), kohlrabi, garlic, broccoli Worst: Salsify (roots rotted), Okra (something done et it up) Poblano chile (just lost the will to live), bush beans (see okra), brussels sprouts (drowned) Slow: Eggplant, habanero (both making a late season comeback) (19)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) City: Beltsville MD. (Washington DC area) Best: Early Cantaloupes (July 11 ties my 1991 record) Worst: Tomatoes (severe heat damage), pole snap beans, Gladiolas (heat and drought damage), eggplant (flea beetles) roses (heat and japanese beetles) Decent: early tomatoes (before they declined), sweetcorn, peas, pole limas (pods had set before the really bad heat hit) Hopefuls: Corn crops # 11, 12, and 13, late cantaloupes, fall pole beans. fall strawberries (Tristar) Oct 1 plowing prevents any fall gardening at my rented space and the 60' sweetgum 30' south of my home garden shades that out in fall. (20)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: palay@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu (Victoria Palay) City: Arlington, MA Best: Tomatoes (Golden Pearl, Sweet 100, Dona) we keep picking and picking! Worst: Cucumbers (Salad Bush) and eggplants (Bambino) Other: Roses (Europeana, Louise Odier, Heritage, English Garden, Tournamentof Roses...) have been particularly lovely this year, probably because there haven't been many japanese beetles chewing them up due to the drought. (21)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: [Hans Goeckner] City: Oak Park, Illinois, USA Best: Wren House gourd, covers my metal toolshed Honorable mention: Bell peppers, never had so many (lots of rain, ground shaded by pumpkin) Worst: Cauliflower (earwigs)// Onions (many disappeared) Dishonorable mention: radishes (got one) (22)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) City: Boulder, CO Best: Snow peas Worst: Basil, peppers Most exasperating: Tomatoes (5 *months* after starting from seed, they are finally getting ripe! At least I have some, though.) (23)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: rreid@rreid.mentorg.com (Richard Reid) City: Sherwood, Oregon Best: Fava Beans Worst: Squash (24)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: neville@cs.washington.edu (Dorothy Neville) City: Seattle Washington Best: dandilions, bindweed, peas (til the enation hit of course) Pretty Good: potatoes, tomatoes (if all those romas would just ripen) Barely adequate: leeks, carrots Worst: Sunflowers, parsnips, beets (25)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: marks@arcturus.usc.edu (Louise Marks) City: Monrovia, California (just east of Pasadena) Best: Tomatoes, Tomatoes, and more Tomatoes - best I've ever grown, sweet bell peppers, too... oh and my zucchinis usually poop out by this time, but they're still going strong. Worrisome: I usually have eggplant coming out of my ears. This year I've had only 30% of my usual production. I'm worried but my friends and neighbors are relieved, I`m sure. Worst: Melons... the vines just aren't growing this year. I'm disgusted. (26)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: drogers@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Daty Rogers) City: Garland, TX, USA (Dallas `berb) Best: Hamelia(sp) or Firebush 3ft around, some sort of periennal blue salvia 7ft around. Both in ground for several years now. Worst: Any of my Lantana's. They just did not produce well this year. Also in ground several years. I'm wondering if my dirt is playing out. Any help on rejuvinating established periennal beds? Organic til I die... (27)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much) City: Menlo Park, CA (on San Francisco Peninsula) Best: Zucchini (help! help! I fought the squash & the squash won.) Worst: Green pepper. One! only. The tomatoes, basil, corn, spinach cucumber, and lettuce did very well, too. Carrots and fennel not so well, but OK. (28)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: sehender@reed.edu (Sarah Henderson) City: Seattle, WA Best plant(all in window boxes): impatiens , basil, anaheim chile Worst (also window boxes): tomatoes(cherry, roma)--lots of fruit but all green so far, eggplant(bambino)--3 plants & 2 fruit so far, poblano chile--wimpy plants & few, small fruit. Last year the tomatoes were great. I attribute the problems to the fact that summer came late (August) and lasted 1 week. If the temperature stays mild enough I'm going to nurse these plants along until I get SOMETHING. (29)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: cliff@seuss.cc.utexas.edu (Clifford A. Wilkes) City: Austin, Texas Best: habaneros (producing steadily since planting in April) Worst: tomatoes (two tomatoes from 6 plants, squirrels got 'em) (30)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mg@pacman.WPI.EDU (Martha Gunnarson) City: Oxford, MA (Central Mass., south of Worcester) Best: Volunteer Watermelon!, Lemon Boy, Super Sweet 100 tomato Worst: Cucumbers, Zucchini [only 1 6" zuke so far 8-( ] (31)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dkpurks@telenet.com [David Purks] City: I'm in Northern Virginia... Best: The spring flowers did well...the Asian Lillies were very large and produced much better than they have in the past. Worst: The Delphiniums which are normally very prolific fizzled this year. I am particularly disappointed in the morning glories. I count on them to hide my fence and they just never filled in as they usually do. As for this summer, I personally think nothing has done exceptionally well. (32)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kat@netwise.com (Kathleen Nosbisch) City: Boulder, CO Best: Tomatoes, over 5 feet high, and zucchinis Worst: Bell peppers - flowering, but not producing (33)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: sdevisse@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (S. De Visser) City: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada Best: Hydrangea, most flowers Worst: Tomatoes, just about everything else, Gladiolus (34)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: imagelan@mv.mv.com (ImagineLan) City: Andover, Massachusetts Best: Blueberries, 66 quarts this week - going for a record harvest. Worst: snow peas, pods what pods. (35)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: yourch@bnr.ca (James Yourch P265) City: Raleigh, NC Best: -Tomato: ( Early girl, Sweet 100, and OG50 ) All producing heavily and delicious. Sweet 100 had no breaks in production. Early Girl and OG50 were not setting much fruit in July because of heat, producing well now though. -Peppers: Habanero and Jalapeno, Excellent production of high quality fruit. -India Hawthorn ( Raphiolepis indica ) -Crepe Myrtle ( Lagerstroemia x fauriei 'Muskogee' ) -Trailing Gardenia ( Gardenia jasminoides 'Radicans' ) *As expected, these plants haved loved the heat -Pink Meidland Rose Excellent flower and hip production, no diseases, insignificant Japanese beetle damage. -Butterfly Bush ( Buddleia davidii ) Incredible vigor and flower production -Sedum 'Autumn Joy' and 'Brilliant' These plants seem to do well no matter what the weather is like. **Newly planted surprise performers: -Big Blue Liriope ( Liriope muscari ) Planted in May in full sun and have thrived despite the heat, doubling in size and blooming well. -Japanese Snowbell ( Styrax japonica ) - Planted last October. Grew from 5' tall and 3' wide to about 8' tall and 5' wide despite the heat, plant looks just as fresh as it did this spring. Talk about vigor. -Dicentra 'Luxuriant' Planted in May. Foliage and flowers have looked good all season. This plant looks fragile, but it is not. -Rebel Jr. Dwarf Turf-type tall fescue - Planted in May, has maintained dark green color in heat and drought. Worst: -Tree Peony - These plants have languished in the heat all summer, almost completely defoliated by now. -Geum - Could not take the heat, one died and the other is languishing. -Summersweet ( Clethra alnifolia 'Hummingbird' ) New transplant (March '93), Wilted badly when I was on vacation and almost completely defoliated. Recovered and flowered well, but still looks pretty rough. -Shasta Daisy - Trying to give these guys enough water to prevent wilting has been a challenge. -Weeping Katsura tree ( Cercidiphyllum japonicum 'Pendula' ) Very beautiful this spring, but the heat has really bothered it this summer. Interestingly, the standard upright Katsura in my yard has done well. Weather: Very Hot( 90 to 100 nearly every day ) and humid, very little rainfall since May, but plants were irrigated about 1" per week. This summer has been a challenge for gardeners. June '93 was the driest June ever recorded ( 0.3" ) and July '93 was the hottest month ever recorded and the driest July ever recorded in the history of weather measurement in Raleigh. (36)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mhhealey@IASTATE.EDU (Mary H Healey) City: Ames, IA, USA Best: false indigo, oregano, 'Moonbeam' coreopsis, Dahlberg daisy, Worst: sweet alyssum (drowned), spirea (lost in action - sucked right out of the ground), raspberries, roses, 'Early Sunrise' coreopsis, butterfly weed (37)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jls@antares. (Jon Sweet) City: Hampton, VA Best: Long Leafed Pine (54" new growth and still growing!) Worst: Hibiscus Sorry...not enough room for veggies in a townhouse when you grow lots of tropicals! The Hibiscus are suffering from the heat and even though I water frequently, the leaves look healthy but not many flowers. In the spring, when there was plenty of rain, they bloomed like crazy. Now.... (38)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: bbeer@stein2.u.washington.edu (Bob Beer) City: Seattle, WA Best: Well, despite the fact that summer never came to Seattle except for about a week in July, my tomatillos did remarkably well. I planted Territorial Seeds "Indian Strain." I also grew fava beans, which I planted last November, and got a bumper crop of in mid-June. Of cherry tomatoes, which are the most reliable here, I have one ripe so far. Lots of little green ones though...I think the exposure was partly to blame - West instead of South. In the flower department, I had good luck with mostly everything; the big difference this year was that things usually restricted to spring lasted much longer (I still have shirley poppies blooming, though they are getting a bit ratty). Bee balm is still in full bloom as well. (39)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ag297@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rick Seeley) City: Marvelville, Ontario, Canada Best: Tomatoes, Peppers, Corn, Carrots, Beets, Squash, Potatoes Worst: Lawn! It's August 27 and I'm still having to cut regularily! (40)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: amt@linus.mitre.org (Anne Tallant) City: Bedford, MA (10 miles NW Boston) Best: Carnival vine tomatoes (only tomato I've ever had to fight the birds for), Celebrity vine tomatoes, Roma paste tomatoes (already five quarts tomato sauce - cooked down - earliest ever), Sugar Ann snap peas (early June), New Hampshire midget watermelons (earliest ever, July) Worst: Pickling cucumbers (cucumber beetles), pole snap beans, garlic and onions (early development stunted by cutworms), Decent: Black Beauty and Dusky eggplant, Georgia Jet sweet potato, butternut squash, early Spanish peanuts, Adzuki and Vermont Cranberry shell beans, Gypsy and Hungarian Wax sweet peppers This year was my 'great paste tomato runoff.' Early results show the Viva Italia and LaRossa paste tomatoes producing, but not as abundantly as the Roma's. Also, they seem to be less tolerant of this summer's heat and drought. All tomatoes grown in raised beds on IRT 76 plastic with a soaker hose beneath the plastic. This year's crop of potatoes (six varieties - Shepody, Yukon Gold, Red Gold, German Buttermilk, Red Dale, Early Ohio) is a big disappointment due to the heat and drought. However, I have to take most of the blame. I did not have enough soaker hose to lay into the potato beds (never needed it before this summer), so the potatoes did not get sufficient moisture. The vines died back early (mid-August, except for Shepody) and I had to go ahead and harvest. All the varieties produced healthy potatoes, they are just smaller than usual. As soon as the soil temperature drops below 60, garlic, onions, spinach, and lettuce will go in for overwintering. (41)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Jerry Young City: Austin TX Best: Phlomis (I bought 5 difft species through the mail and all but one are thriving through our very hot , rainless summer). Caesalpinia pulcherrima, Artemisia "Powis Castle", Zinnia linearis, Erythrina crista-galli Worst: Decaisnea fargesii (I planted them late, and they keeled quickly -- I'll try again.) (42)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: krueger@ssd.comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger) City: I live in a NW suburb of Chicago. Best: Basil, Tomatoes Worst: Corn, Bell and Hot Peppers The peppers are growing really slow, just showing small peppers now. (43)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Wayne State University (Joel Burgess) City: Detroit MI (downtown condo garden on south wall) Best: Nicotiana Suavolens (spelling?) 6-7 Foot tall candelabras dripping with white tubular flowers. Also Tomatoes in Wall o' Water bore first ripe tomatoe on June 29 (last year I waited until August) Worst: Spinach. Planted early, bolted only a few weeks after it germinated. A whole seed packet yield a small, bitter pan of greens. Never again. (44)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) City: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Best: lawn grasses Worst: maize = corn (a bit odd, because maize is a grass) (45)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) City: Natick, MA (15 mi. west of Boston) Best: Nicotiana, Morning Glory, Viola (they just keep going and g..) Worst: Sweet dumpling squash (a woodchuck found it) Salpiglossis and Linum rubrum (planted 10" apart as per instructions. I should have planted them about 3" apart to fill in enough, and they are hardly producing any flowers. Not enough sun??? So-so: petunia was doing just great and would have been #1 except it suddenly stopped blooming. I did find green caterpillars and removed them and now it's starting to bloom again. We've had a VERY DRY summer which has at times been very hot and other times quite cool. Wierd weather! But hten New England weather is usually wierd. (46)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: barnettj@pookie.crd.ge.com (Janet A Barnett) City: Pattersonville, NY (~20 miles west of Albany) Best: pickling cukes (pints and pints of bread and butter pickles, dills brining away, still more on the plants) eating cukes - oodles of 'em - "burpless" only when eaten in moderation ;-) Worst: tomatoes - would have been ok had the deer not knocked the stakes (and plants) down like dominoes lettuce - devoured by slugs Honorable Mention: sunflowers (huge) & pumpkins (good jack o'lantern material) (47)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Elizabeth.Molinaro" City: Dayton, OH. (Zone 5, mainly, sometimes shown as a Zone 6, following the Great Miami River valley --who knows? It's hot!) Best: Flat leaved parsley San Marzano tomotoes (grown from seed in garden) Roses: Rugosas, Grandifloras, and an Antique Worst: Eggplant Dill (tried 3 times to get some to grow. Dead after 2 days each time!) Sweet-peas (48)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: M17257@mwvm.mitre.org [Ellie Blackwell] City: Centreville, Virginia (Washington DC area) Best: Cherry Tomatoes Worst: Geraniums (they still look like seedlings after 5 months!) Cucumbers aren't too great either--lots of blooms, 2 cukes so far off of 4-5 plants. (49)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: naomi@anasazi.com (Naomi Walker) City: Phoenix Arizona Best: Cantaloupe, tomatoes (cherry and roma), dill, corn cosmos, sunflowers, blue salvia, hawaiian blue eyes, marigolds, basil, vinca Biggest Disasters: cucumbers (lemon and green), onions, gladiolus (50)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: strauss@uncavx.unca.edu [Bob Strauss] City: Asheville, NC (the weather has been similar to Raleigh, but "less so." Not as hot, but one of the driest June-July periods recorded here) Worst: Green, bell peppers. Only a few plants have produced. Best: Everything else! Oddly, I'm giving away chili peppers, and jalapenos (the hottest ones I've ever had). Great for bush beans (even with Mexican bean beetles) and asparagus beans (the ants love 'em, too). It has been a banner year for flowwering plants: all the spring trees were exceptional, going into summer. We have some crepe myrtle here, and for once, they are covered with flowers. And last year we planted a few portulacas. Then we roto-tilled part of the back yard, and all the bare spots got portulacas this year! Bigger than last year, too. (51)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: sfisher@megatest.com (Scott Fisher) [Posted by Kim Fisher] City: Sunnyvale, CA (Bay Area) Best: Beans, Snow peas Worst: THE ^&#@%# Tomatoes!! also basil.. Both kinds I tried also the tomatillos have been disappointing. Not ready for final comment: the peppers. Scott's Habanero is thriving and he makes the most amazing faces when he eats them!!:-). We made chile verde last night with a combination on the first Anaheims, Gualjillos, New Mex #6. The best verde I've *ever* tasted!!! The Fresnos are going berserk, I need to make major batches of jelly this weekend to keep up (they are really really hot!) The sweet peppers have not done very well so far, except for an heirloom variety called Jimmy Nardello and the cubanelles. We have come reluctantly to the conclusion that having too many varieties of peppers is not necessarily a good idea, because we don't have enough of any one kind to eat all at once. It was fun, though, to try so many different kinds. (16 hot, 11 sweet) oops, somebody gave us an Andean Aji, a vietnamese, a super chile, and a wierd little purple-leafed magenta flowered kind- make that 20 hots. The majority of the plants are coming into their own (wierd hot/cold shifts in the weather caused some casualites and late starts) If anyone in interested in a final analysis of pepper cultivars, let me know! (52)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: lmarkham@oregon.uoregon.edu City: Eugene,OR Best: Pole beans(10' tall and so heavy we nearly lost the trellis) and Herbs(Savory,sage,thyme,tarragon,basil,oregano,chives,etc) and Radish pods(nice flowers and lots of stir fry material) Worst: greens (they either were toasted on the three warm days we had, et by slugs or bolted) SoSo: Lots of stuff just didn't produce well (size or quantity) but what we got sure tasted good. (I've never had cauliflower that nummy!) I'm afraid after our nonexistent summer that fall is going to hit hard and we won't get the "fruits" of our labor. I'm going to try and protect some of the peppers and such from the frost with covers. We wish everyone luck with old Jack Frost! This was our first year gardening. It's been a lot of work but well worth it. !! (53)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke) City: Yorktown, NY Best: Roma Tomatoes - two laundry baskets full (4 cu. ft. total) Worst: All vine crops (watermellon/zuke/cuke/melon) - dead (54)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mpax@pbs.org (COOL BEAN) [Mary] City: Woodbridge, VA (20 miles So. of D.C.) Best: Lettuce Leaf Basil (and very yummy) Worst: Tomatoes and some flowers (55)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) Location: Laurel, MD (Zone 7, between baltimore and DC) Best veggies: various brassica greens (mustard, vi-vegeta, broccoli rabe); asparagus; Carnival & Early Girl tomatoes; lemon basil Worst veggies: Husky and Better Boy tomatoes (yech); okra (barely getting any); pickling cucumbers (killed by wilt/beetles) Best other: salvia superba (blue queen?) and mini-marine heliotrope that I started from seed; Nandina domestica "firepower" -- bought on a whim last fall, & it's turned out to be a great little plant year round Worst other: darn lantana seeds that NEVER germinated; supposed dwarf convolvulus Royal Ensign (from seed) that seems to have reverted to climbing type with boring pink flowers, plus 1 or 2 crummy blue flowers on shorter stems that at least look like the catalog picture. the jury is still out on my retarded (or, botanically challenged) habanero (56)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: tracy@xerox.com (Bridget Tracy) City: SF Bay AREA Best: Silver Queen Corn (lots of corn!, but needed GALLONS of water) Basil did great too. Worst: Armenian Cucumber (they never set one) (57)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: amp@uts.amdahl.com (Anne M. Powell) City: Los Gatos Mountains, CA (between San Jose and Santa Cruz), altitude 1700 feet Best: the $1 per bush roses from Gurney's that I put out for a hedge Worst: the expensive roses from Parks that I put next to the others, apparently the deer knew the difference :-( Best Weed: sweet peas 10 feet tall with 2-3 foot tap roots (58)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: elke@rigel.uucp (Elke Kespohl) City: Macon, Georgia (approx. 100 miles south of Atlanta) Best: Hot peppers (especially habaneros, jalapenos and cayenne), tomatoes (heatwave), Zinnias, Lemon Verbena, Lemon Balm, Geraniums, Vinca Worst: Chives, Parsley, Dahlias, Oregano (too hot I guess with temperatures in the 98 - 106 range for the last 2 1/2 months) Cucumbers died. They were planted on a trellis behind the tomatoes and got shaded out by the 8 ft. monsters. This is my first usenet post - ever! I have been reading this group for a while though, and since I didn't see any responses from Georgia, here it goes. (59)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: greg.mccrory@ozonehole.com (Greg Mccrory) City: New Orleans, LA Best: bananas (they always do well) azaleas (they do too) camelias (them too :) ) ferns (got more than I can handle) arrowleaf ivy (extra vigorous this season) Worst: geraniums (?) double begonias (dead!) hastas (no bloom and brown edges) roses (too humid) dazies (?) It's difficult to say what has done the best, probably the weeds :) Our climate this season: -Long cool spring, March-June -And then, Relentless heat! 96 degree days, 80 degree nights all summer! -Near average rainfall (lots of rain :) ) (60)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: wdahler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Will Dahler) City: Columbus (the big one) Best: Snow peas, cabbage, and onions Worst: Eggplant, potatoes, and sweet corn (61)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic S. Cusanelli) City: Frederick, Maryland Best: All hot pepper plants faired well. Thai, Cayenne, Jalapeno, Hot Cherry. Also Cubannelle peppers are doing extremely well (I have one plant over 6' tall). All these pepper plants are huge and producing well. Worst: Cuccumbers, the extreemly hot temps killed them off early with low production. Second planting unsuccessful. Most tomatoe varieties (Early, Better boy, Delicious)were way off production mark. Plum tomatoes faired all right, but not too well. (62)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Comment on submission by Tony Wallis [Tony@nexus.yorku.ca] who wrote: ">Best : lawn grasses >Worst : maize = corn (a bit odd, because maize is a grass)" Maize is a tropical grass. I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada] (63)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Jerry Young Comment on submission by Mark A. Breland [breland@mcc.com] who wrote: ">Worst plant: Cucumbers (they just won't do diddley!)" Funny. This year we decided not to do vegetables, but a couple of cucumber plants volunteered out of the compost I used to plant an Erythrina herbacea. It's in a xeriscape part of our yard, but we got a dozen or so healthy cukes. Of course that was mostly before our 60+ rainless/dozen or so 100+ days. (64)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jareed@rodan.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed) Message-ID: <1993Aug26.164821.11718@newstand.syr.edu> Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 16:48:20 EDT This submission was scrambled on my Net and couldn't be put back together again. Apoligies to Judith. (65)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: gcampbel@sneakers.prime.com (Gerry Campbell ) City: Medford (just outside Boston) Best: Tomatoes (Early Girl and Sweet 100), Cucumbers (early) Worst: Most flowers (66)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: vlsisj!smds!linsley@decwrl.dec.com (Chuck Linsley) City: Mountain View (near San Jose), CA Weather: Mild, wet winter; wet spring; dry, very hot summer Best: Tomatoes: After a slow start, the Ruby Pearls are doing a fair imitation of kudzu. Just beginning to ripen fruit -- delicious. Planted far too many. Anybody want some tomatoes? Nasturtiums: Did very well until overrun by tomatoes. Plum: (I wish I knew what variety -- yellow-orange skin). Delicious, more fruit than we could harvest, let alone eat. Lavender: (Lavendula dentata & hybrid 'Rabbit Ear'). Taking over the front of the house. Spearmint: (Mentha spicata). Taking over the side of the house. Worst: Northrup-King "Shady Plant Mix". Zero germination. Carrots: Germinated, than nothing. Serrano pepper:Only one seedling survived transplanting and the ensuing onslaught of earwigs. It hasn't even bloomed, let alone produced fruit. Spinach:Bolted so fast we got no harvest. Peas: The 2 or 3 pods we got were wonderful, but we planted too late. They were just starting to produce when the summer heat killed them. Worst timing by an otherwise good plant: Sweet peas. My wife *really* wanted sweet peas for her wedding flowers (14 February). We planted a "winter-blooming" variety last fall. They finally bloomed 9 weeks after our wedding. I moved into a new house last summer, and this was my first attempt at a real garden in many years. It was my wife's first-ever attempt at a garden. We learned a few things. :-) Buy seeds early, before the varieties you want sell out. Plant cool weather crops early. If 25 cherry tomato seedlings sprout, don't transplant all of them. (67)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: saari@magnus.acs.ohio-state.EDU (Susan J Saari) City: Columbus, Ohio Best: Roma tomatoes, bush beans (mixture from Shephard Seed of purple, yellow, and green), large zinnias Worst: gladiolas (what a disappointment, got special new bulbs from Park and planted a dozen every week for 8 weeks, only picked 6 flowers), roses, scarlet runner beans (pretty flowers, but no beans) OK: cucumbers (yeah! first success in a long time with these, planted them in front of my large flower bed, they climbed on lilacs and other bushes), snap dragons from seed I have spent the last 6 weeks dragging my hoses around the yard and trying to keep all the perennials, trees, and bushes alive. I've lost an astilbe, and my azalias, so far. I wish we would get some rain and a break in these temperatures in the 90s. All in all, this summer was better for vegetables and last was better for flowers. (68)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kls@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth L Shellberg) City: Columbus, Ohio Zone 5 Best: Due to our mild winter and spring, all spring flowering shrubs and trees were spectacular city-wide. In addition, Clethra was good, and now Caryopteris and Buddlia are doing well, and Lespedeza thunbergii is just starting. Perennials: Aruncus, Brunnera, Anemone, Rudbeckia, and the balloon flower 'Komachi' (or somesuch - the flowers never open, but stay as blue balloons until they fade), and daylilies were great. And while most hosta look terrible, mostly due to slugs and the heat, 'Sum and Substance, Frances Williams,' 'Snow Cap,' and 'Regal Spendor' continue to look great into September. Worst:Chrysanthemum 'Shasta,' Salvia 'May Night,' Potentilla 'Miss Wilmot', Sciadopitys verticillat died, Due to powdery mildew, phlox and ligularia. We've not had significant rain since mid July, so it's a struggle to keep plants from showing signs of drought and heat stress. (69)------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) Comment on submission by Paul Harvey [pharvey@quack.kfu.com] who wrote: "Maize is a tropical grass. I bet most tropical grasses are difficult to grow in Canada. [Excluding the banana belts of Canada" Sweetcorn grows well in Southern Canada. Field corn will not ripen properly except right along the canadian border and in the large area that is between Lake Huron and lakes Erie and Ontario. Special sweetcorn varieties are available for other parts of canada that do not have summer frost; Stokes carries a good selection. U.S varieties do not do well there because long days prolong the vegetative period and slow maturity. U.S varieties also do not do well in the tropics for the opposite reason, the short days hasten maturity and result in a stand of pygmy plants. For the same reason the "Special varieties" mentioned above for Central and Northwest Canada and Alaska do not do well in the lower 48 states. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca Sun Sep 12 22:30:54 EDT 1993 Article: 22168 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Hierloom seeds? Message-ID: Date: 2 Sep 93 21:20:39 GMT References: <261117$dc9@dorsai.dorsai.org> Organization: UTCC Public Access Lines: 49 In article <261117$dc9@dorsai.dorsai.org>, David Gurzynski wrote: >I had some tomatoes from a local farmers market the other day and they >were FANTASTIC! They were organic "hierloom" tomatoes. I had heard that >these were also supposed to be more resistant to diseases and molds and >the like. > >Has anyone else heard of these and knows where I could get seeds like >that? You can go back to the farmer and ask him/her what the variety was, and/or where he/she got them...(or for a few seeds). You can also save some seeds from the tomatoes (if you haven't eaten them all up yet!) and plant them next year. Tomatoes are mostly self-pollinating, although some of the older varieties are less so, but a market gardener will probably have many plants of the same variety, so the seeds will most likely breed true, and if not, you'll have your own unique hybrid! :-) Don't count on exceptional disease resistance in heirloom varieties. Much of modern breeding involves adding disease resistance that the older varieties lack. However, if the heirloom was developed in your area, it may be 'customized' to your growing conditions, so may resist local diseases and do well for you. Compared to modern commercial varieties, heirlooms tend to be less uniform, later, poorer shippers and not amenable to mechanical harvesting. This means that they won't be tough and hard, won't all ripen the same day, won't all be the same size and shape, and (perhaps) won't all simultaneously fall over dead from the same disease. Heirlooms will usually taste better, because these are varieties that have been preserved by people for their own use, and most people won't bother to do so over the years for an inferior variety for home garden conditions. I'm growing 13 varieties of tomatoes this year (mostly 1-3 plants each) and some heirlooms are doing at least as well as the modern varieties, although some are less productive and a few have dropped dead from some disease that didn't affect plants of other varieties (new and old) that they were entwined with. This year's winners so far are Brandywine and Golden Sunray, and the big losers are Yellow Pear and Purple Calabash. Sunray is pulling its stakes over with the weight of the fruit - it is outproducing OG50, this year's hot hybrid. Beautiful colour and great flavour. Brandywine is less productive and somewhat later, but tastes just great. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada (enjoying the home-grown tomato season while it lasts) From csroc@cvbnet.prime.com Sun Sep 12 22:31:06 EDT 1993 Article: 22428 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!linus!cvbnet!usenet From: csroc@cvbnet.prime.com (cvbnet) Subject: Re: Hierloom seeds? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@cvbnet.CV.COM (News Account ) Nntp-Posting-Host: dime Organization: ComputerVision References: <261117$dc9@dorsai.dorsai.org> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 14:52:56 GMT Lines: 26 >From article <261117$dc9@dorsai.dorsai.org>, by dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org (David Gurzynski): > I had some tomatoes from a local farmers market the other day and they > were FANTASTIC! They were organic "hierloom" tomatoes. I had heard that > these were also supposed to be more resistant to diseases and molds and > the like. > > Has anyone else heard of these and knows where I could get seeds like > that? I grow two "hierloom" tomatoes Brandywine and Prudens Purple. Both are large Pink tomatoes that are the best tasting varieties I've ever had. The yield is small compared to todays hybrids, but the flavor more than makes up for this. I get the seeds from Pinetree seeds in Maine. The disease and mold resistance is not remarkable. I have trouble from only one disease(I think it's Antracnose). Unless I spray once a week or so with Bordeaux Mixture or another fungicide they develop whitish spots just beneath the skin and stop ripeneing. This is probably a soil-borne problem, as I get it with all Tomato varieties, even those with vfnt designations. From yourch@bnr.ca Sun Sep 12 22:31:54 EDT 1993 Article: 22089 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!bnr.ca!yourch From: yourch@bnr.ca (James Yourch P265) Subject: Favorite Plants Message-ID: <1993Sep1.153341.12848@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 15:33:41 GMT Lines: 44 I enjoyed the best/worst performers thread so much that I thought we could start a new one. I would like to know what your favorite plants are. You can have categories for trees, shrubs, perennials, whatever you want. You can have more than one favorite. I thought it would be nice if you could also describe what makes the plant special to you. Well anyway, here are mine. City: Raleigh, North Carolina ( USDA Zone 7/8 ) Tree: Katsura ( Cercidiphyllum japonicum ) - I love this tree for the rose purple color of the unfolding spring foliage. The summer foliage is a beautiful calming blue-green. With fall comes apricot colored foliage that smells like cinnamon. In winter, I admire the tree for the pretty bark and lots of fine twigs. Shrub: Dwarf witch alder ( Fothergilla gardenii 'Blue Mist' ) Another blue foliaged beauty. In early spring, it bears white flowers that look like bottle brushes and smell like honey. Summer brings soft blue-green foliage and a neat mounded habit that never requires pruning. Fall brings intense late colors of red, orange, yellow, purple. 'Mt Airy' is a nice selection also. Vine: Swamp Jessamine ( Gelsemium rankinii ) This is an evergreen twiner that has abundant yellow flowers in spring and fall and blooms sporadically on the warmer days of winter. During the colder days of winter the dark green foliage takes on a wine colored blush. Perennial: Bleeding Heart ( Dicentra eximia 'Luxuriant' ) Yet another blue foliaged plant. Very lacy, ferny, blue-green foliage combined with pinkish-red heart-shaped blossoms from spring through fall. Good yellowish-orange fall color also. Oxford Orphanage Plant ( Kalimeris pinnitifida ) Small white fluffy daisy-like flowers that remind of baby's breath. The small white flowers, delicate dark green foliage, long bloom season, and ability to combine well with just about any other plant makes this a most useful plant in the garden. Blooms from spring through fall. Jay From kls@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sun Sep 12 22:32:00 EDT 1993 Article: 22200 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!kls From: kls@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth L Shellberg) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Favorite Plants Date: 3 Sep 1993 16:27:39 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 45 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <267r9r$em5@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <1993Sep1.153341.12848@brtph560.bnr.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu City: Columbus, Ohio (USDA 5) Pardon me for adding categories and not being able to confine myself to just one per category :-> Tree: Gymnocladus dioicus (Kentucky Coffeetree) Metasequoia glyptostroboides (Dawn Redwood) Cornus kousa Koelreuteria paniculata (Panicled Goldenraintree) Shrub: Kerria japonica 'picta' Viburnum plicatum tomentosum 'Shasta' Chaemaecyparis obtusa 'Mariesii' Hypericum 'Tricolor' (borderline hardy here) Lespedeza thunbergii Vine: Clematis maximowicziana (Sweet Autumn Clematis) Grass: Miscanthus s. 'Morning Light' Hakonechloa macra 'Aureola' Helichtrotrichon Perennial: Hosta 'Antioch' Hosta 'Sum and Substance' Platycodon 'Komachi' Hemerocallis Heuchera 'Palace Purple' Aruncus dioicus GroundCover: Lamium 'White Nancy' Pachysandra terminalis variegata Lysimachia nummularia 'Aurea' Fern: Athyrium niponicum pictum (Japanese Painted) Annual: White wax begonia Red plumed celosia with burgundy foliage -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - Ken Shellberg | Internet: kls@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu - - The Ohio State University | CIS: 76247.1705@compuserve.com - - Geological Sciences | Voice: 614-292-2721 - From kolling@adobe.com Sun Sep 12 22:32:05 EDT 1993 Article: 22239 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!decwrl!adobe!kolling From: kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling) Subject: Re: Favorite Plants Message-ID: <1993Sep4.071043.5441@adobe.com> Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View References: <1993Sep1.153341.12848@brtph560.bnr.ca> <267r9r$em5@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Distribution: usa Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1993 07:10:43 GMT Lines: 17 I'm lazy and I never have enough time anyway, so my favorite plants are all practically maintenance free: Heritage rose: Lovely small wild-looking flowers, but with the cabbage shape of some old roses. Thriving shrub rose. Delicate pale yellow/pink/apricot color. heavy, sweet, old rose smell. Columbine: Thrives in sun or part shade, exotic looking flowers. Dawn Redwood: beautiful delicate leaves and reddish bark. Extremely ancient type of tree, known only from fossils until re-discovered in the 1940's. -- Karen Kolling kolling@adobe.com or kolling@netcom.com ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ From kk@wujek.durham.nc.us Sun Sep 12 22:32:12 EDT 1993 Article: 22257 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!wujek!kk From: kk@wujek.durham.nc.us (Krzysztof Kozminski) Subject: Re: Favorite Plants Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1993 20:05:17 GMT Distribution: usa References: <1993Sep1.153341.12848@brtph560.bnr.ca> Organization: Relative Software, Inc. Lines: 95 In article <1993Sep1.153341.12848@brtph560.bnr.ca> yourch@bnr.ca (James Yourch) writes: >I would like to know what your favorite plants are (...) I was always afraid somebody would start a thread like this and I won't be able to resist temptation to followup with my list of favorites... oh, well, I'll start with just a few... today it's trees. City: Durham, North Carolina (USDA Zone 7/8) Leafy Trees with Nice Bark. Japanese crepe myrtle (Lagerstromia fauriei 'Fantasy') - absolutely gorgeous bark with splotches of dark brown and cream. NCSU Arboretum has a couple of big ones, and the one in the japanese garden setting is just perfect. For winter interest, there is just no competition to this one. Paperbark maple (Acer griseum) comes distant second for me in this category. Honorable mentions go to Acer davidii and Acer tegmentosum for bright green bark with gray stripes. I also like coral-bark maple (Acer palmatum 'Sango-Kaku') for crimson winter color. Conifers with Nice Bark. Pinus bungeana - unfortunately seems impossible to acquire, so it is my favorite only on the basis of an encounter with a single specimen in National Arboretun in DC. But its multicolored bark needs to be seen only once to make an indelible memory... Deciduous Conifers (this category could also be named "Conifers with Huge Root Structures, Interesting Branching Habit, Soft Needles, and Nice Bark") Dawn redwood (Metasequoia glyptrostroboides). The one in Duke Gardens is absolutely gorgeous, with gnarled roots rising above the ground level for several feet away from the trunk - even National Arboretum with its substantial grove of dawn redwoods does not have any specimen that is close to the one at Duke. Good tree for climbing, too. (If I got the count correctly, this is the third recommendation of this tree...) Evergreen Conifers Chinese fir (Cunninghamia lanceolata) - looking somewhat like Araucaria, but softer to touch, fast growing (the one I got last year as a freshly rooted cutting is >4 feet tall already). C.l. v. 'Glauca' has bluish needles. I like its soft needles growing all over the thing, main trunk included - on young trees there is not a single spot uncovered. The second place takes Cryptomeria japonica - I just love the feel of the needles of this one. Trees with Big Leaves: Firmiana simplex - greenish/bluish smooth bark (very nice in winter), and huge maple-like leaves about 1-1.5 feet across. Fast growing, too. Honorable mentions go to Magnolia macrophylla and M. tripetala for their really huge leaves. Trees with Small Green Leaves. Chinese sweetgum (Liquidambar acalycina) - it is to the ordinary sweetgums as japanese maples are to regular maples. The one plant I grow in full sun is incredibly bushy, keeps leaves well into December, and is surprisingly drought-resistant. Leaves are neat to touch - covered with soft dense hair all over. Strangely enough, another one that grows in shade has smooth leaves... Trees with Small Leaves on Which Kay Would Would be Tempted to Spray Huge Quatities of Chelated Iron to Cure Their Cholorotic Appearance. Full Moon Maple (Acer shirasawanum aureum) - absolutely beautiful golden leaves. No contest here. Too bad it is such a slow grower. Conifers oWKWbTtSHQoCItCTCS Chamecyparis pisifera filifera aurea - this one is pure gold on the sunny side, and stays greenish on the shady side. It grows into a conical shape so perfect that it is hard to believe it does it without any pruning. Trees with Pinnate Leaves that Survive Outside Any of the Koelreuterias - paniculata, integrifolia, etc. Trees with Pinnate Leaves that Would Die Outside and Have to be Brought Indoors, Where They Take Over the Living Room. Tamarindus indica. Seems to consider a 3-gallon pot to be just right to develop a bonsai habit, with the structure of a mature tree. OK, so it is a large bonsai (4-6 feet tall) - maybe I gave it too much fertilizer... Trees with Bipinnate Leaves that Survive Outside Silk tree (Albizzia julibrissin). This one is almost a weed around here, but I like its growing habit. Trees with Bipinnate Leaves that Would Die Outside and Have to be Brought Indoors, Where They have to be Surrounded by Tamarinds to Prevent Them from Being Eaten by Cats. Poinciana (Delonix regia) - huge bipinnate bright green leaves - over two feet long and about 1 foot wide, with a gazillion of tiny leaflets that stay surprisingly aligned keep the shape of a big oval (unlike Albizzias). Too bad it is not hardy - I probably will never get it to flower, and it is supposed to be *THE* flowering tree. KK -- Kris Kozminski (kk@wujek.durham.nc.us) "Limit congressmen to two terms. One in office. One in jail." From jwilson@bach.udel.edu Sun Sep 12 22:32:18 EDT 1993 Article: 22260 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.udel.edu!bach.udel.edu!jwilson From: jwilson@bach.udel.edu (Jim Wilson) Subject: Re: Favorite Plants Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.udel.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: bach.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware References: <1993Sep1.153341.12848@brtph560.bnr.ca> Distribution: usa Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1993 22:55:49 GMT Lines: 41 In article <1993Sep1.153341.12848@brtph560.bnr.ca> yourch@bnr.ca (James Yourch P265) writes: >I enjoyed the best/worst performers thread so much that I thought we could start >a new one. I would like to know what your favorite plants are. You can >have categories for trees, shrubs, perennials, whatever you want. You can >have more than one favorite. I thought it would be nice if you could >also describe what makes the plant special to you. ... City: Newark, Delaware (USDA Zone 7a) Regular readers know that my favorite is the iris, so I'll be more specific. My favorite type of iris is the Siberian Iris, because of its elegant appearance, excellent landscape foliage, and ease of maintenance. And a few favorite varieties: Siberian--Mabel Coday good grower, upright foliage, deep blue, fragrant Japanese--Caprician Butterfly consistent, large flowers of good form, good grower Louisiana--Easter Tide delicate colors, some ruffling Tall Bearded--Dusky Challenger large, strong stalks, velvety lg. deep purple flowers, branched Border Bearded--Pink Bubbles ruffled pink flowers of excellent form, good grower Intermediate Bearded--Rare Edition extremely vigorous, good plicata flowers Miniature Tall Bearded--Bumblebee Deelite good grower, striking gold/maroon flowers Standard Dwarf Bearded--Laced Lemonade clear yellow slightly laced flowers, good form, occ. rebloom And I'm all ready for the second-favorite poll, and the third-... Rhododendrons can make great plants too--I like "Olga Niblett" in the mid-size category and "Trude Webster" in the full size; both durable and have good-looking foliage and plant form. -- Jim Wilson, Instructional Technology Center, University of Delaware Newark, Delaware 19716 jwilson@brahms.udel.edu From yourch@bnr.ca Sun Sep 12 22:32:23 EDT 1993 Article: 22395 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!bnrgate!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!bnr.ca!yourch From: yourch@bnr.ca (James Yourch P265) Subject: Re: Favorite Plants Message-ID: <1993Sep8.145134.7056@brtph560.bnr.ca> Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 14:51:34 GMT Lines: 28 kk@wujek.durham.nc.us (Krzysztof Kozminski) writes: >Japanese crepe myrtle (Lagerstromia fauriei 'Fantasy') - absolutely >gorgeous bark with splotches of dark brown and cream. NCSU Arboretum >has a couple of big ones, and the one in the japanese garden setting is >just perfect. For winter interest, there is just no competition to >this one. >Dawn redwood (Metasequoia glyptrostroboides). The one in Duke Gardens >is absolutely gorgeous, with gnarled roots rising above the ground level >for several feet away from the trunk - even National Arboretum with its >substantial grove of dawn redwoods does not have any specimen that is >close to the one at Duke. Good tree for climbing, too. (If I got the >count correctly, this is the third recommendation of this tree...) I agree with you on these two. The 'Fantasy' Crepe Myrtle at NCSU arboretum and the Dawn Redwood at Duke gardens are my two favorite specimens. The trunks of the crepe myrtle are the most awesome cinnamon color, with ridges and fluting that pleases my sight and my touch. I cannot go to the arboretum without visiting these trees at least twice. Living sculpture!!! The root mass and butressing of Duke Gardens's Dawn Redwood is also incredible. When I see it, I sometimes imagine that I were much smaller and the roots and butressing would form this incredible landscape of mountains and valleys around me. Jay From kfoster@adobe.com Sun Sep 12 22:32:52 EDT 1993 Article: 22099 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!decwrl!adobe!kfoster From: kfoster@adobe.com (Kathleen Foster) Subject: Best in 93 Message-ID: <1993Sep1.191829.28688@adobe.com> Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 19:18:29 GMT Lines: 9 My Best in '93 Kathleen L. Foster Redwood City, CA Best: Tomatoes: Rutgers, San Maranzo types, Basil, purple bush beans and white corn Worst: Saladin cucumbers (pickle type doing okay), sunflowers, rhubarb From cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu Sun Sep 12 22:33:59 EDT 1993 Article: 22140 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!oac4.hsc.uth.tmc.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Cyndi Smith) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Summary of my Raised Bed info (Long) Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: 2 Sep 1993 15:14:02 GMT Organization: MD Anderson Cancer Center Lines: 522 Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: yggdrasil.mda.uth.tmc.edu Well, I have already had several requests to post the following, so... Cyndi Smith Computer Programmer Department of Biomathematics M. D. Anderson Cancer Center Phone: 713/794-4938 Fax: 713/792-4262 *********************Cut here*********************** Summary of information received based on my original post: >Hi! >I know that this is often discussed, but I couldn't find an FAQ list >that covered it (except for two articles on pressure-treated lumber...) >So - >I am currently planning a bed about 15-18 feet long, 4 feet wide and 10-20 >inches deep. Mostly vegetables and herbs. What is your favorite method of >construction? What size do you recommend? What construction materials? >Any other help will be appreciated. >Please reply by mail and I will summarize. (Should this be in the FAQ? How >do things get there?) >Thanks! From: os2user@brdiller.houston.ibm.com (Barry Diller) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 17:13:27 GMT I built 3 bed last spring, each 16' long, 4' wide, and about 10" deep. I used untreated 2x12 lumber for the sides because treated lumber scares me a bit. I grew tomatoes, squash, bush beans, peas, cantaloupe, okra, tomatillos, and peppers in the beds and had great success. I planted some watermelon and pumpkin for fall, and they look good as well. My neighbor built his raised beds wide (10' or so) and he's wishing he hadn't now. The soil dries out too quickly, and he has to step into the beds to pick vegetables or bugs. 4' is just about the perfect width. If you're going to build just one bed, go ahead and make it as long as you can - you'll be glad later. I nailed the corners of my 2x12s and reinforced them with heavy metal L's screwed deeply into the wood. And I'm glad I did, as the soil exerts a lot of outward pressure. I drove 2x4 stakes around the perimeter of each bed for extra support. My stakes are about 6' apart and 3' deep, but I plan to add more stakes next spring to stop some bulges I'm seeing. One last thing: Walmart sells (or did sell) a $25 drip irrigation kit that contains several feet of solid hose, several feet of drip hose, friction fittings, restrictor valve, etc. It took me 30 minutes to install mine, but it was one of the smartest things I've done. I'll just roll the stuff up for storage this winter and put it back down next spring. BTW, plan to build your bed and haul in your dirt this Fall. Have you been outside lately? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry R. Diller IBM Federal Sector Sevices Company EMail address: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com Houston, Texas USA ************ My reply to above: Subject: Re: Raised Bed Construction To: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 17:09:24 CDT Thanks for your experienced tips! Does it look like the untreated lumber will stand up to several years of the wrath of God that passes for summer in Houston? >BTW, plan to build your bed and haul in your dirt this Fall. Have you been >outside lately? :-) Yeah. I am planning on building the bed perhaps in late September or October. I am hoping that it will be bearable by then! ************ His reply to my reply... Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 12:17:23 EDT From: brdiller@vnet.IBM.COM Well, the untreated lumber is generally holding up well. It looks bad in a couple of places, like next to my sprawling black-eye pea plants, where it's in the shade all day and stays damp. I suspect I'll get at least one more year of use out of these boards before I have to replace or augment them. The boards are inexpensive, so replacement doesn't scare me. Actually, augmentation is what I'm considering. I'm shopping for some pretty, and "pretty cheap", retaining wall stones that I can stack on the outer side of my boards. If the stones interlocked or if I cemented them together, I could let my boards rot away. So far, I haven't found what I'm looking for. I could avoid all this work and worry, I guess, by using treated lumber, but I assume that you're familiar with all the scuttlebutt about leaching of chromium and arsenic into the soil around them. I still use treated lumber for beds in which I never intend to turn the soil over (like a blackberry arbor I just built), but I will not use treated lumber in a vegetable garden where the soil will be cultivated twice or three times a year. I'm not a Luddite or an enviro-nut, but I see this as one environmental risk that I can avoid. Good luck on building your bed(s). It's hard work, but I've been so glad I did it. Barry R. Diller IBM FSSC - Network and Systems Integration Dept. HG6, Room 4226B, MC 4206 (713) 260-7205 (IBM T/L 260) Houston, TX 77058 Internet: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com ************ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:27:16 -0400 From: William VanHorne Re: raised bed gardens. I live in central Ohio, which has 12-18 inches of the finest loam soil in the world, which means that the very first thing the builders do is scrape it all away and sell it, which means that my yard consists of the underlying clay, which means that nothing short of dynamite and a backhoe will dig into it. Do I sound bitter? Anyway, I decided that I would build a raised-bed garden rather than try to dig into the cement. I started with a 4x4 little block this year in order to see how it works before investing a lot of time and money into it. After 5 months of raised-bed gardening, I can safely say that I will *never* do any other kind of gardening again. I built the 4x4 box out of untreated 2" thick pine boards with 1" square spindels in the corners that project about a foot above the box. This gives me a 12" deep "sandbox" to play gardener in. I simply stripped the sod off of a 4x4 area, loosened the "soil" a little bit, plopped the box on top of the stripped area, and filled the box with topsoil and compost. Simple and cheap. By using 2" thick 8 foot pine boards (which I sawed into 4 foot lengths), I was buying the cheapest lumber available (Builders' Square sale price : $1.49 per board - total lumber cost including spindles $5.00) and even with "raw" lumber sitting on the ground I have seen no warping of the boards after 5 months. I have had an attack of carpenter ants however. The biggest expense was the topsoil at $1.50 per 40 lb. bag. Nice to have to pay for the topsoil they stripped from my neighborhood, eh? I was stuck with this option because I didn't decide to build this garden until the last minute in April and so had no time to order a truck-load of soil. Even a 4x4x1 garden box will take a LOT of soil to fill, so I was stuck buying a half a ton of it in individual bags! Rule 1: Plan Ahead. A big advantage to this type of box setup is that it is trivially easy to keep rabbits and groundhogs out. I simply lined the bottom of the box with chicken wire before filling it with dirt and wrapped chicken wire around the outsides of the box. Mr. groundhog was stymied by the underground wire and the rabbit family (oh yes, our neighborhood cat too) were stopped by the "fence". Chicken wire comes in 3 foot high rolls of 50 feet and so to make a "fence" all I had to do was push the chicken wire over the spindles at the corners of the box and fold the wire over the top of the box a little. Not only does this create a nice fence, but all I have to do is pull it out of my way when I want access. Another advantage is drainage. The raised soil drains very quickly into the clay underneath encouraging nice deep root systems to form. I do have to be religious about watering in dry spells, but all my seedlings did very well in our spring monsoon. I had no problem with baby plants being drowned or washed-out. Having enjoyed gardening this year more than I ever have before, I am planning on expanding the box next year to be 16 x 4. This is the most hassle-free way to garden I have ever seen. No rototillers, no clunky fences that fall over, no standing pools of water after storms, no soil compaction, weeds pull up as easily as if they were in mulch, no problem with nutgrass invading the edges, working garden soil with a kitchen fork and spoon (really!) for tools. This raised-bed stuff gets to be fun. I hope this gives you some ideas, and may you enjoy it as much as I. ---Bill VanHorne ************ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 15:49:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Toni Haun >What is your favorite method of construction? --we've done three sorts: treated lumber 4x6, recycled railroad tie, and recycled city of seattle sidewalk. treated 4x6: most expensive, easiest construction and cleanest looking. railroad tie: relatively cheap, hard to handle, quick to build. sidewalk: free, time-consuming (though maybe therapeutic and may teach you a thing or two about physics in breaking it up), but keeps the stuff out of landfills and is pretty 'clean'. >What size do you recommend? --tall enough to sit on comfortably and wide enough for you to be able to reach the center without straining your back. the length will depend on your materials: treated wood will need to be cross-tied if you go much beyond two lengths, same for ties, and concrete can probably compete with hadrian's wall if necessary. we used a strange construction technique on the 4x6's: level the ground and lay out the timbers, stacking lincoln-log style so that you don't have any butt joints lining up between layers. then we drilled through them with a huge milwaukee drill that had 14" bit. (you can probably rent one for a day). sometimes you have to start a hole, then drop the top timber off to finish the hole through the bottom courses. then we pounded rebar (concrete reinforcing bars) through the holes and into the soil. the concrete store had 24" lengths in bundles. any sort of rod that fits the hole snugly would work. what you have then is something that you can ultimately take apart with a crowbar and rebuild somewhere else if need be. we used the railroad ties because they were available across the street (leftovers from somebody else's project) and we needed a 'property' line in a hurry (a neighbor cut down some of our shrubs thinking that they were his) to be able replace some plantings and adding a few feet to them instantly. they were hard to cut, messy and heavy, but in the end, not a bad planter. kinda rustic looking. for both the treated wood and the railroad tie, we used a little black&decker chain saw (electric) to even the ends. tedious, but well worth the $5 investment at a yard sale. the concrete was delivered for free by the city (!), took a while to break up and move to the 'final resting place', and takes up a lot of planting space but is really flexible to work with as far as size and shape and adjusting to uneven terrain. all in all, each works in its own ways. i'm dying to find out more about recycled plastic lumber...i've seen it in soil and water contact applications in a demonstration parks department installation in oregon, but the cost and availability prevent me from having any to experiment with. i've tagged on a county extension bulletin about treated lumber, fyi. it's not gospel, but they've got more information than most on the subject. good gardening! -t King County Cooperative Extension 612 Smith Tower 506 Second Avenue Seattle, WA 98104 Treated Woods for Garden Use- What is Safe? KC 145 The mild, maritime climate that we enjoy in western Washington is not often conducive to the long life of wood products used in garden construction. Decay organisms, primarily fungi, and also insects, usually begin the degradation process very quickly on wood used outdoors, especially if it is placed in contact with the soil. Some woods such as redwood, western red cedar, black locust and bald cypress have been used, and still are used, under the assumption that they possess inherent qualities that protect them from decay and insect invasion. Black locust and cypress are not easily obtained in our region, and the other two may not last very much longer than other woods. Only the heartwood of these species is very resistant to breakdown, and since old growth trees, which contain the most heartwood, are a diminishing item, it's likely to be difficult to get or very expensive when it is available. Besides the obvious structural and aesthetic problems that rotting wood causes, carpenter ants and termites can use outdoor wood as springboards or highways to invade your home or other structure. A raised bed constructed of unprotected lumber near your house may very well serve as a pathway inside. Old railroad ties are frequently used to build raised beds or to terrace slopes. This wood has been treated with creosote, a product derived from coal. Creosote has certainly proven itself as a wood preservative over a long period, but because it is toxic and because it has become a restricted use pesticide, questions have arisen about its safe use around plants. Creosote can volatilize into the air, especially during hot weather, and plant foliage in the vicinity of the ties may be damaged by the vapors. It can also leach into the soil near the ties but it will NOT move into the soil any distance. Roots which come in contact with the stuff are likely to be damaged or killed, but the chemical will NOT be absorbed by the roots and will therefore NOT get into the plants' tissues. When using railroad ties for raised beds or similar areas, avoid putting plants too close to the wood. Keeping plants three or four inches away should prevent damage. Also, don't ever use creosote-treated wood in interior locations such as greenhouses, since the vapors will damage or kill plants in them. Pentachlorophenol, another restricted used chemical, has also been used to treat wood to prevent decay and insect infestation. Do NOT use such lumber to construct planters or raised beds, since it is likely to severely damage plants. As with creosote treated wood, absolutely never us it inside greenhouses. For treating wood yourself to retard decay, both copper and zinc compounds are available in various proprietary formulations made to be brushed or painted on the surface. Although they do work to a certain extent, they do not really possess much long term effectiveness, and it is questionable whether either one will protect wood in contact with the soil. They are safe to use around plants and can even be used to treat wood in greenhouses. Within recent years, the availability and use of pressure treated lumber has become common. Chromated copper arsenate (CCA) is forced into the cells of the wood under high pressure, and wood treated with these materials has been shown to last a very long time indeed, even when it's been in contact with soil. University research on Wolmanized, or CCA treated wood, indicates it IS safe for use around plants. The copper and arsenic protects the wood from both insects and decay organisms, and since it is chemically bound to the wood, it cannot leach into the soil or vaporize. The chromium in the compound is the agent that fixes it in the wood. Unfortunately, this is an undated publication, but currently available through the King County Washington State University Cooperative Extension office. ************ From: rreid@rreid.mentorg.com (Richard Reid) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 23:18:01 GMT Okay, I know that 4' seems to be the standard width, but I find that at four feet, I still have to walk around to reach the veggies on the other side. 3 feet works better. I can reach the ripest Cucumber or the nastiest weed from either side. I currently have 4 3X20 foot beds and they are all doing just fine. Only one is surrounded in lumber, the others are just heaps. I kind of like heaps, but the lawn tends to encroach so I'm going to go to lumber for a few years until I get my path system worked out. I think it would be interesting to find out what the ergonomics of gardening are. -- Rick Reid rreid@.mentorg.com -- Mentor Graphics Corporation "The whole family was done in, ever since Uncle Forrest burnt the will" -my mother-in-law ************ From: caking@pacbell.com (Chris King) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 19:58:14 GMT In article <1993Aug17.231801.10743@news.mentorg.com>, rreid@rreid.mentorg.com (Richard Reid) wrote: > > Okay, I know that 4' seems to be the standard width, but I find > that at four feet, I still have to walk around to reach the > veggies on the other side. > > 3 feet works better. I can reach the ripest Cucumber or the > nastiest weed from either side. I totally agree with the three foot width. My beds are 11" high (2 2x6s), 3 ft. wide and 16ft long. Longer than this would mean having to walk too far to get something that dropped on the other side. I used redwood for the wood and used 4x4s for the corners and bolted them together like so: LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 4444L 4444L 4444L 4444L L L This way the 4x4 is on the inside which makes it look neater to me. I drilled holes in the posts so I could counter sink the bolts and not leave anything sticking out to snag my hand on the inside of the bed. Post are every 4 feet, with a joint in the middle where the 8 ft boards meet. I use a drip irrigation system to water the beds, and find that this works great. This is a good time of year to buy this stuff since the gardening stores don't want to carry it in inventory until next spring. As for longevity, after two years of use, I have seen no signs of bowing nor any signs of rot on the boards. I Chris King Pacific Bell (510)823-1347 ************ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 93 13:57:00 EDT From: cfurchner@attmail.att.com Cyndi - width - 4' max, depending on how tall and flexible you are. You want to avoid walking on the soil. Mine are 5' wide, and that's too wide for me -- the next ones will be 3-3.5'. If you can double-dig the undersoil, or remove about 6" of soil and replace it with top soil, do it. You'll be able to plant more plants per unit area if the loose (broken), friable soil is at least a foot deep. I would avoid using pressure-treated lumber. Some people claim that that the heavy metal salts used to pressure treat it will not leach into the soil ... I suspect they (the people) work for the pressure-treated lumber industry. For construction, you can use: nothing, just mound the dirt rot-resistant wood, like redwood or cedar bricks cinder blocks recycled plastic "wood" (what I've seen is VERY expensive). concrete rock-face blocks [I don't know the official term for the concrete rock-face blocks ... in the last year or two I've seen a number of retaining walls and garden beds built with them. The outer face is rough, like rocks, but the remainder of each block is moulded, like a brick, with holes or flanges to allow the blocks to interlock securely. Very attractive, fairly expensive. I'm contemplating doing a new bed with them this fall.] I built the frame on my garden beds using a product called "Garden Grid" (Mantis Mfg), which was ingenious, but didn't really work for me. It's made from hollow plastic "timbers" that interlock and that have holes on the interior sides. The idea was that you filled up the hollow grid with water, which would slowly drain out into the soil, thereby watering the bed. I didn't think that the TINY slope the garden is on would make a difference, but it did ... one end got all the water. Live and learn. It still works as a supporting frame, at least. Anyhow, I don't think it is manufactured anymore. For watering ... I've had great luck with soaker hose (leaky hoses, usually made from recycled rubber). I lay out lines in the bed 12-18" apart before planting time, plant the plants, then cover the exposed soil and hose with organic mulch after the soil warms up in June. I take up the hose after everything is harvested. And it really helps to run a water line and put a faucet near the bed area, so that you don't have miles of hose to contend with every time you want to water. The worst-kept secret to a great garden is compost. Dig in 3-4 inches every year. After a few years you may find that you need to remove some soil in order to have enough room to dig in more compost. That may mean it's time to start a new bed... The book "Square Foot Gardening" has a lot of wonderful ideas for intensive, raised bed gardening. Good luck! Carol Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 16:08:11 EDT From: bailey@butyng.bu.edu (Sherry Bailey) My raised bed is made from 2 8'x12" PT boards for the long sides and one of those cut in half (4'x12") for the ends -- a perfect size for "Square Foot Gardening". I got my husband to assemble with a number of long, stainless steel screws. (Reinforcement in the corners would be wise to account for warpage -- I have cracks.) I double dug the space BEFORE putting the frame in place, then filled the box with a mixture of sifted compost (at that time available free from the community heap) and the soil from the site and some vermiculite and peat moss, and a little fertilizer. I edged the whole box with some self-stick copper foil tape I happened to have (intended for electrifying dollhouses) to keep slugs and snails out. I installed (but have since removed for aesthetic reasons) black pipe "U" shaped trellises at each end which I reinforced by tying on 8' bamboo poles as cross pieces. This setupmade a framework over which I could drape bird net which I secured at the bottom with cup hooks installed in the frame of the bed. (It worked, but was at the edge of the front yard in suburbia, and my husband complained.) I ran strings from the pipes down to other cup hooks to provide support for cukes and tomatoes. I also made markers for the one foot squares by running string between cup hooks and plant stakes, as needed. This is in a section of lawn, and the only problem with it (apart from the structure not meeting my husband's"good taste" strictures) is that it's a pain for mowing around. Someday maybe a mulch path or something!! I got everything cut to size and ready to assemble at Home Depot. (Including the threading of the pipe to take the elbowjoints that held it together. 7' high by 4' wide) It all worked very nicely and looks pretty good. (Even the trellises weren't THAT untidy, but I gave up on climbing plants for other reasons, so I thought I might as well make hubby happy!) If you (like me) have no flat ground, use a level to keep the raised bed flat (I used small stones under some corners to "shim" it even, and to keepthe trellising straight. (It DOES look a bit tacky if it's crooked -- assuming you care, of course!) Not the cheapest method, but for my situation, it workedjust fine. One caution -- PT lumber in those dimensions gets HEAVY!!! If you "do-it-yourself" think about whether to assemble on the spot or whether you can round up help to move it. (It took two strong men to move mine, and they were struggling!) Sherry From lmetcalf@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU Sun Sep 12 22:34:45 EDT 1993 Article: 22158 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel!OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU!LMETCALF From: lmetcalf@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (LORETTA METCALF) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: heirloom seeds Date: 2 Sep 1993 22:34:42 GMT Organization: California State University, Chico Lines: 31 Message-ID: <265se2INN3j9@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> References: <1993Sep2.160445.1@pearl.tufts.edu> Reply-To: lmetcalf@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: oavax.csuchico.edu In article <1993Sep2.160445.1@pearl.tufts.edu>, wmayerso@pearl.tufts.edu writes: >I was wondering if someone could tell me exactly what heirloom seeds are! I >have often heard the reference and do not understand what makes seeds >heirlooms. > Simply put, heirloom seeds are open-pollinated seeds that grow true to the plant and can be saved year after year and replanted. Hybrid seeds cannot be saved, as the seed from the plant will not grow true to the plant. Once all gardeners saved and traded seed for their gardens. This seed was passed down for many generations. (I have tomatoe seed that my grandmother brought from Italy when she immigrated, I have been growing these tomatoes out every year and saving the seed). The diversity of our food plants was much greater then. When seed companies began to sell to consumers, they found that if they developed hybrid seed (purported to be better) and sold this to their customers, one of the "benefits" to them (the companies) was repeat business, because the seed could not be saved. Because of this practise, we have lost many valuable plants that cannot be recovered, as there is no seed for that particular varilety left on the planet! Seed Savers Exchange, in Decorah, Iowa, as well as a few other non- profits is attempting to save what is left of our heirloom varieties. Loretta ********************************************************** LORETTA METCALF, CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, CHICO LMETCALF@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU From bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca Sun Sep 12 22:35:05 EDT 1993 Article: 22333 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Subject: Re: heirloom seeds Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: <1993Sep2.160445.1@pearl.tufts.edu> <265se2INN3j9@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 15:46:28 GMT Lines: 97 In article , Shih-Tung Ngiam wrote: > >Suppose I grow an "Early Girl" tomato and let the fruit drop to the >ground, and suppose further that the seeds survive the winter and >germinate in Spring. And that this cycle goes on year after year. I'll >accept that the descendant plants may not mature as early or may produce >fruits that don't taste as good (to humans) as true "Early Girls", but >they will still be tomatoes, nonetheless. Why should the genes of these >descendants be considered inferior to those of "heirloom varieties" ? [First, some suggested reading: "Breeding Your Own Vegetable Varieties" a recent book by Carol Deppe. Explains plant breeding objectives and methods used by professional breeders and how to adapt them to backyard projects. Easy to understand, and very inspiring, makes you want to get out in the garden and do some crosses!] The offspring of hybrids are quite variable. If you select and inbreed for several generations you can create new varieties with the properties you like, assuming they occur in the genes of the hybrid you started with, or arise from mutation. Early Girl would be a poor choice of starting material if you wanted to produce yellow cherry tomatoes, but you could select for several generations and get a new open-pollinated variety that resembles Early Girl quite closely, but breeds true. If you just let tomatoes fall, rot and germinate their seeds in the spring, you will be selecting for plants that are productive of seeds under these conditions, which may not be very good eating tomatoes. For millenia, long before the principles of genetics were discovered, people have been saving seed from their best plants, and now we have domesticated crops which are very different from their wild ancestors. Assuming 100% inbreeding, which is common in modern tomatoes, and ignoring mutation for now, your self-sown population will have only the genes found in Early Girl. If Early Girl has no genes for e.g. yellow colour, enormous size, stripes, intense tomato flavour, resistance to disease X, these traits will not show up in any offspring, no matter how hard you select. > But these seeds must have been themselves the products of deliberate >or accidental hybridization, too. Since seed companies employ plant >breeders who are all the time creating new varieties, it hardly seems >fair to blame them for reducing genetic diversity. In the 'good old days' people saved seed from plants that produced the way they liked, under their local conditions. The old small regional seed companies, most of which are gone now, also developed locally adapted varieties. Modern large seed companies are interested in creating varieties that produce adequately under widely varying conditions, so they can sell them across the continent. Heirlooms often do extremely well under the conditions in which they were developed, but sometimes poorly under different conditions. This isn't always the case: some tomatoes developed for cold, short-season climates do very well in hot deserts - the ability to set fruit under cold conditions appears to really be an ability to set fruit under generally adverse conditions including heat and dryness. >> When seed companies began to sell to consumers, they found that if they >> developed hybrid seed (purported to be better) and sold this to their >> customers, one of the "benefits" to them (the companies) was repeat >> business, because the seed could not be saved. Because of this practise, >> we have lost many valuable plants that cannot be recovered, as there >> is no seed for that particular varilety left on the planet! > > There must have been some reason for farmers to have switched to >hydrid varieties from heirloom varieties, though. After all, why would >past generations of farmers have paid good money for seed when they >could have kept their own seeds for the price of lost production ? There are some plants, like corn, that are strongly outbreeding by nature. These plants develop 'inbreeding depression', and hybrids really tend to be superior to open pollinated varieties, unless a large and variable population is maintained for seed year after year. Other plants, including tomatoes, are natural inbreeders. Hybrid tomato varieties are not necessarily superior to open-pollinated ones. Even Dr. Ernie Kerr, who has been a professional tomato breeder, for the Ontario government until retirement and then for Stokes Seeds (maybe 50 years total experience), says so. The seed companies incorporate their advances into hybrids, because it is of advantage to sell something that has to be bought again next year. You can use these "hot new genes" to create your own varieties that have the properties you like. You can combine the disease-resistance and other new developments with the desirable home garden traits of heirlooms. Farmers generally want different properties in a crop than home gardeners do. In the case of tomatoes, someone raising acres of them wants a variety that will ripen all at once, so the pickers (or picking machine) need only go over the field once or twice. The fruit should be cosmetically perfect, smooth, symmetrical, red, uniform size and shape, no cracks or other defects, hard enough to survive a lot of handling and shipping. Resistance to herbicides is a big plus, flavour is low priority. When I grow tomatoes in my garden, I am willing to put up with cosmetic imperfections, the fruit doesn't get any rough handling, flavour is important to me, I don't mind staking and weeding, I want them to ripen over a period of weeks or months, I like to grow varieties that have various colours and shapes and sizes. Most plant breeders are breeding for the big producer who buys most of the seed, and/or the home gardener who wants to grow stuff that looks like what they sell in the supermarket. From karenp@sybase.com Sun Sep 12 22:35:44 EDT 1993 Article: 22533 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!halon!sybase!karenp From: karenp@sybase.com (Karen Paulsell) Subject: Re: heirloom seeds Message-ID: Sender: usenet@sybase.com Organization: Sybase, Inc. References: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 22:05:47 GMT Lines: 17 There's a lovely "tomato tasting" article in our local free weekly, the East Bay Express. Over 100 varieties of tomatoes, as I recall, all sizes and colors and shapes and flavors, including many heirloom varieties. After instructions on how to taste a tomato (acidity, sweetness, meatiness, balance of flavors, and more) and what the ratings meant, participants had a mere two hours to taste and rate as many varieties as they could manage...sounded like a great event. It was the opening event of a local chi-chi restaurant's Tomato Month, a whole month of tomato-centered cuisine. So the tasting-review segued into a restaurant review of one of the prix fixe tomato dinners. Especially interesting was a soup: the different-colored cream of tomato soups, carefully ladled into a bowl, each with a distinctive tomato taste. The author recommended visiting Farmer's Markets and a couple of our "best" veggie markets to find the really unusual and delightful varieties. From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Sep 12 22:35:57 EDT 1993 Article: 22194 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: heirloom seeds Message-ID: <1993Sep3.102351.16255@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 3 Sep 93 10:23:51 -0500 References: <1993Sep2.160445.1@pearl.tufts.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 26 In article <1993Sep2.160445.1@pearl.tufts.edu>, wmayerso@pearl.tufts.edu writes: > I was wondering if someone could tell me exactly what heirloom seeds are! I > have often heard the reference and do not understand what makes seeds > heirlooms. Heirlooms are the cultivated varieties (=cultivars) of garden plants that our grandparents or great-grandparents or ... would have enjoyed. In general, these cultivars are more flavorful, and better adapted to home garden conditions than many of the commercially available modern cultivars. On the down side, they *may* be less resistant to diseases and have lower yields, or be "less pretty" than modern cultivars. In general, these plants were chosen as the "best" of the local crops year after year, and gradually, a new cultivar was developed that way. These seeds are open-pollinated (meaning they are not F1 or F2 hybrids, but breed true if you save your own crop seed). Personally, I like heirloom crops of many plants... but I often plant a modern "resistant to everything" [ ;-) ] tomato with my others as "insurance" (not that that did me any good this year! One place to start reading about heirlooms is Carolyn Jab's _Heirloom Gardener_ (approximate title) -- about mid 1980's publication date, if I recall. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From tomm@cup.hp.com Sun Sep 12 22:38:10 EDT 1993 Article: 22198 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!tomm From: tomm@cup.hp.com (Tom McNeal) Subject: Re: heirloom seeds Sender: news@cupnews0.cup.hp.com (News Admin) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 15:59:25 GMT References: <1993Sep2.160445.1@pearl.tufts.edu> <1993Sep3.102351.16255@cobra.uni.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: hpindadb.cup.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.3] Lines: 18 klier@cobra.uni.edu wrote: : One place to start reading about heirlooms is Carolyn Jab's _Heirloom : Gardener_ (approximate title) -- about mid 1980's publication date, : if I recall. Another good reference (which you can order through the SSE) is "Seed to Seed", by , um, uh, I used to have it here somewhere. Anyway, it is a good reference on techniques required for harvesting and storing seeds. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------- tomm@hpindada.cup.hp.com Tom McNeal at Hewlett-Packard's Information Networks Division 19410 Homestead Rd., M.S. 43UE, Cupertino, CA 95014 (408)447-2300 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From cgalt@beach.csulb.edu Sun Sep 12 22:39:40 EDT 1993 Article: 22229 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!csus.edu!csulb.edu!beach.csulb.edu!cgalt From: cgalt@beach.csulb.edu (Chuck Galt) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Exotics book/Cane revisited... Date: 4 Sep 1993 02:24:44 GMT Organization: Cal State Long Beach Lines: 21 Message-ID: <268u9c$k32@garuda.csulb.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: beach.csulb.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] just discovered that I didn't send correctly my previous (and first) two postings; here they are again, in essence: 1) anyone know of a good book (Sunset style or otherwise) specifically on tropical/flowering plants that might do well in southern california gardens? I'm especially interested in fragrant things like Plumeria, Yellow Ginger, etc., and have a few in a new house I've just bought, and would like to build up my variety. I'd like not just a listing (like some "field guides" i've seen for Hawaii visitors), but pix, info, horticultural info, proper names, etc. 2) As a musician who plays the Andean panpipes (Sikus, Zampognas), I'm interested in trying to grow my own cane (sometimes i think called cana brava), so i can make pipes rather than buy them from abroad or from locals who bring back cane when they go to Bolivia. Does anyone know much about the plant itself, how the "canes" differ from the bamboos, possibility of growing them in So. Cal., etc.? Here, too, a book with info would be a welcome source of info. Thanks! I am very new to this newsgroup (all of them), and love it! charles From karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil Sun Sep 12 22:40:22 EDT 1993 Article: 22285 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!ra!shiva4175.nrl.navy.mil!user From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) Subject: Re: "Your Organic Garden" PBS Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: usenet@ra.nrl.navy.mil Organization: Naval Research Lab References: <26bnni$pgd@dorsai.dorsai.org> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1993 21:47:09 GMT Lines: 36 In article <26bnni$pgd@dorsai.dorsai.org>, dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org (David Gurzynski) wrote: > > Has anyone out there been watching "Your Organic Garden" on PBS? My > wife and I found it around June and have have been taping most of > the shows. It is a good show with some good information although I am > sure an expert would find most of it obvious. It is rather entertaining > too. > > > * SLMR 2.1a * it's 11:00...do you know what your cats are shredding? > > -- > ~ "Any book that makes you want to live, ~ David Gurzynski ~ > ~ is a good book! ~ Brooklyn NY ~ > ~ Ray Bradbury ~ dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org ~ Unfortunately the local PBS station isnt carrying that show yet; i should bug them about it, since they get enough of my money ;^>... However, the Learning Channel (cable) is showing Gardening Naturally on Saturday mornings, 9 am and noon (EST). i've seen 2 episodes so far, and it's pretty good (although aimed more at beginners, of course). Barbara Damrosch and Eliot Coleman should be the poster couple for organic gardening, they're awfully cute together. There's also a program called the New Garden, shown on PBS here, which seems to favor organic methods although i havent seen enough of it to tell if that's 100% true........ OTOH there's Jack Eden, who's been doing a gardening radio show in DC for eons and must be getting kickbacks from the agri-chemical companies (sigh). Judy Karpen "pushing back the frontiers of science...." karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil Code 7675K, NRL, Washington DC 20375-5352 From seremjia@cs.uwp.edu Sun Sep 12 22:44:17 EDT 1993 Article: 22312 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.uwp.edu!seremjia From: seremjia@cs.uwp.edu (Pj Seremjian) Subject: 1993: the best and the worst Message-ID: <1993Sep7.023627.2709@cs.uwp.edu> Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 02:36:27 GMT Lines: 14 What was the best and the worst of new( for you) veggie/ flower varieties you tried in your garden in 1993? My best: A flower, Amaranthus Caudatus: "Love Lies Bleeding" - a new one for me, and in a class by itself. The Juliet of flowers! My worst: Kentucky Wonder Wax pole beans - I wanted a wax pole bean, searched far & wide, and ended up with lots of starchy, lumpy icky wax beans. (But, there are LOTS of them!) Gardening season is nearing a close here in SE Wisconsin... :( Here's to next year! PJ. From bhaile@leo.vsla.edu Sun Sep 12 22:44:23 EDT 1993 Article: 22537 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!caen!uvaarpa!leo!bhaile From: bhaile@leo.vsla.edu (Bess Haile) Subject: Re: 1993: the best and the worst Message-ID: <1993Sep11.140848.3263@leo.vsla.edu> Organization: Virginia State Library References: <1993Sep7.023627.2709@cs.uwp.edu> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1993 14:08:48 GMT Lines: 13 My best this year were my David Austin Rose, tulips, money plant (Lunaria) and the plumbago. The first 3 had enough spring rains to do splendidly, and the DA roses bloomed all through the bad spell we had in July and are blooming a bit now. The plumbago began to bloom in June and is at it's glory right now! Worst...heliotrope which did'nt sprout, even though a professional greenhouse sprouted them for me and which never grew or bloomed. Also annuals which I didn't water. 27 days of 100 degree weather will do us all in. ** Bess Haile \l/ From tony@nexus.yorku.ca Sun Sep 12 22:51:51 EDT 1993 Article: 22558 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!nexus.yorku.ca!tony From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) Subject: Re: double-digging Message-ID: Sender: news@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca (USENET News System) Organization: York University References: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1993 17:03:42 GMT Lines: 34 Bob Meyering would: > .. like to know a little more about double-digging, or the > French Intensive Method as I've heard it called, or intensive > gardening, or whatever. Ordinary (single) digging turns over/breaks the top spade-depth layer of soil, but doesn't deal with the problem of the subsoil being compacted. Double-digging is a technique for turning over/ breaking the second spade-depth layer of soil as well, but without mixing it with the first layer. It is done in strips. Call the strips #1, #2, .. #n. Dig out the top layer of #1 and pile it somewhere out of the way. Then turn over the second layer of #1. Turn over the top layer of #2 onto the second layer of #1, and then turn over the second layer of #2. Continue in the way: the top layer of #3 onto the second layer of #2, etc. etc., the top layer of #n onto the second layer of #(n-1). Finally put the removed top layer of #1 onto the second layer of #n. [No, you can't do it with a roto-tiller ! :-) ] The "French Intensive Method" is a raised bed-technique - basically to pile up the top layer of soil into strips, alternating hills of double-depth top soil for growing and low subsoil valleys for walkways. The two techniques can be combined. A frequent comment from European gardeners about North American practices is that we they don't dig as deep as they do. This may be particularly significant if you get a new house built on worked- out farmland - there is a good chance of a "clay pan" just under that light dusting of contractor-supplied "top soil". -- tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, North York, Canada. From jastuart@rodan.syr.edu Sun Sep 12 22:54:39 EDT 1993 Article: 22396 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!pacbell.com!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!wetware!spunky.RedBrick.COM!psinntp!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!rodan.syr.edu!jastuart From: jastuart@rodan.syr.edu (Jeffrey A Stuart) Subject: meristem cloning of orchids Message-ID: <1993Sep8.102310.10687@newstand.syr.edu> Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 10:23:09 EDT Lines: 10 I'm looking for some information on orchid cloning. I've heard of the technique of meristem cloning (or meristemming), but none of my books have suitable discriptions. Can anyone recommend a good reference (or several) for this technique? Any advice would also be appreciated. The only discription I have is in a small Ortho book, but I'd like something a bit more in depth. Thanks alot... Jeff (jastuart@rodan.acs.syr.edu) From allyn@u.washington.edu Sun Sep 12 22:55:21 EDT 1993 Article: 22450 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!NewsWatcher!user From: allyn@u.washington.edu (Allyn Weaks) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Heritage fruit trees? Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: 9 Sep 1993 06:52:06 GMT Organization: University of Washington Lines: 41 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.95.172.102 At long last I have a house with a miniscule yard (average by seattle standards, but I'm from the midwest where 1/2 acres are more common than 10th acres...). The time has come to start looking at trees to plant. I have room along the west side of the house for about three semi-dwarf sized fruit trees (15' spread, 15-20' tall), and I'd like to get at least one started this fall. They probably won't get much morning sun until they grow up enough to peak over the eaves, but they should get plenty in the afternoons (as much as you ever get here, anyway.) I'd rather not get standard modern hybrids. I remember reading about a book from the 1930s that listed over 3000 varieties of apple trees available at the time, many with wonderful properties (taste! texture!) that don't necessarily include easy mass harvest or long storage times. Are there any suppliers of some of these? I'd like to find a really good tart hard apple that doesn't turn to mush when cooked. Hopefully self pollinating, since I'd rather have three completely different kinds of fruit than two out of three trees be apples. Disease, pest, and maintenance-free a plus :-) I'd also like to look into old varieties of cherries, plums, pears, or other things that would do well here (the growing season is really too short for peaches). Small nut trees may also apply for space. (A hazelnut bush is already in the planning stages for the back yard. Know any good ones? I'd kind of like to go with the northwest native, but the nuts are teensy.) Do the old varieties of fruit trees come in smallish sizes, or are the dwarf/semi-dwarfs only a product of the hybridization era? I vaguely know how grafting and hybridization work and what they're for, but I have no grasp of the history involved of when various techniques started being used. It wouldn't actually surprise me to find out that grafting is medieval or older. I've had a look in several bookstores, and haven't been able to find anything much about fruit trees at all, let alone old or uncommon ones. Any good references? Many thanks. -- Allyn Weaks allyn@u.washington.edu From allan_l@news.delphi.com Sun Sep 12 22:59:00 EDT 1993 Article: 22563 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!not-for-mail From: allan_l@news.delphi.com (ALLAN_L@DELPHI.COM) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: herbicides Date: 12 Sep 1993 18:13:39 -0400 Organization: General Videotex Corporation Lines: 20 Message-ID: <2706uj$pnm@news.delphi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: news.delphi.com Summary: alternative herbicides Keywords: herbicide, propionic acid Does anyone have information on the persistance of prionic acid salts as herbices. I read somewhere that propionic acid works well as an environmentally sound herbicide. From my understanding of the chestry involved it should decompose readily. I'm aware of other alternative herbicides (glycophosphate in roundun), but my curiousity about the use of this simple compound is just started. I'll admit I mixed up a 4 percent solution of lime mixed with propionic acid, and applied to the cracks in the driveway. Sure 'nuff the grass died, and now that there were a couple of thunderstorms, the grass is encroaching on the area (which is fine by me since I don't want to destroy all life in the soil). Thanks for the comments Allan (allan_l@delphi.com) From jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org Tue Sep 14 21:29:54 EDT 1993 Article: 22571 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: double-digging From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Distribution: world Message-ID: <36.1025.2552.0N41BB77@gcbb.granite.mn.org> References: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 07:17:00 +0600 Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis Lines: 68 Tony@Nexus.Yorku.Ca to All - Sunday, September 12th: Discussing: Re: double-digging T>Bob Meyering would: >> .. like to know a little more about double-digging, or the >> French Intensive Method as I've heard it called, or intensive >> gardening, or whatever. This instant soil building practice comes from personal experience rather than a book, so it has no name. Maybe you can call it the no name soil preparation technique. I first started it when I was called in to build a yard at a house that was built literally on a giant granite outcropping. There was no soil whatsoever. So we formed up the yard with rail road ties, rocks, and concrete blocks 18" high and brought in compost enriched farmsoil, two parts loam, one part aged, rough compost. It took about one cubic yard per 14 square feet as we overloaded to compensate for settling. Gads it was an incredible yard!. Expensive perhaps, but anything grew. For the trees we made giant planter boxes and filled them as well, bringing in trees, some placed with a crane. The lesson was that the existing soil, in this case solid rock, might just be unsalvagable. The effort to fix it may be too great. So at another yard, and this time the householder had gumbo clay subsoil. We removed a full 12" of clay and hauled it off. Then we placed three inches of compost at the base and tilled it in nine inches deep. Then we brought in the compost, loam mix, giving this person 21 inches of instant, rich organic soil. Those two cases were the extremes. Other examples included bringing in a backhoe and digging large holes for all the shrubbery, hauling away the lousy dirt, and filling the holes with planter mix. Sort of like an inverted clay pot. I have done several gardens by backhoeing out the soil and replacing it with the magic soil mix. The aisles are the regular junky soil, the beds ready for planting. Raised beds are largely to compensate for the effort required to dig deep enough. It is easier to build up soil 12" or more than it is to dig a hole that deep. One thing many raised bed proponents forget, and that is to amend the soil beneath the raised bed with compost. The formula of tilling in compost at a 1-3 ratio, one inch of compost tilled in three inches, two inches tilled in six, three inches tilled in nine. The soil amending beneath the raised bed expands the enhanced soil profile that much more. Too often, people put up the raised beds, with treated lumber no less, and refill it with the same lousy soil that they began with. Or they may buy some lousy dirt from someone in the farm strip mining business with little organic matter in it. Either way, they are no better off than when they started, only now there are some ridiculous beds in the yard serving no beneficial purpose. So the point is to think of getting as much soil as deep as possible amended 1/3 with compost. Whether that is above or below the ground is a matter of digging economics. If I were a city planner, I would require at least 9" of compost amended topsoil in every new home as a part of the building code. The water savings alone would pay for it in arid regions in around five years. The quality of life would pay for it the first year. Jim Mr Compost~~~ McNelly Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org --- * September 13th - Hark! What mail from yonder modem breaks? From libby@igc.apc.org Tue Sep 14 21:30:31 EDT 1993 Article: 22636 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sgi!cdp!libby From: Libby Goldstein Newsgroups: rec.gardens Date: 13 Sep 93 12:25 PDT Subject: Re: double-digging Message-ID: <1453300341@igc.apc.org> References: Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Lines: 23 In answer to your request for a literary reference, try Jon Jeavons' "How to Grow More Vegetables in Less Space than you ever thought Possible" I'm another non-double digger. Both my community garden plot and my back yard started out as clay fill over building refuse. I broke up the clay with a pick in both places and then built raised beds...with board borders. After that, I filled the beds with compost, spent mushroom compost (easily obtainable here because we're near Kennett Square, PA, "The mushroom capitol of the world", broken bales of Pro-Mix. Since the first construction, I've just added more organic matter (the same stuff, but the only potting mix I use now comes from pots of dead plants dumped in the backyard beds, and I dump most of my prunings and weed and dead headings and inedible veggies right back on the beds. In the community garden, we get lots of wood chips from the power company to use in our aisles and paths. If we get anything like normal rainfall (40"/yr), the bottom layers of chips rot wonderfully so we can dig them up and put them on our beds. If not, we wait a year. Sheet composting, throwing all the healthy weeds and plant residues back on the ground they came from, works marvellously well in normally wet weather. Give it a try. It's way easier than double digging. Libby From zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca Tue Sep 14 21:31:26 EDT 1993 Article: 22631 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!daemon From: "Lance R. Bailey" Subject: Re: double-digging Organization: Relayed-by-Sendmail Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1993 13:29:09 GMT Message-ID: <9309141329.AA04621@cupoftea.ctrg.rri.uwo.ca> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] To: rec.gardens@newshost.uwo.ca Sender: daemon@julian.uwo.ca (Julian System Daemon Account) Lines: 40 In group rec.gardens tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) wrote: > Bob Meyering would: > > .. like to know a little more about double-digging, or the > > French Intensive Method as I've heard it called, or intensive > > gardening, or whatever. > being compacted. Double-digging is a technique for turning over/ > breaking the second spade-depth layer of soil as well, but > without mixing it with the first layer. It is done in strips. > ... some comments if i may. 1) when removing the top strip, use a proper sqaure mouthed spade. it allows you to get a 8" wide 12" deep trench without the walls caving in. 2) when turning over the bottom layer, use a garden fork. insert the tines to their full depth. 3) after the job is done, notice how the entire garden has been raised or "fluffed up" by 4" or so. i can double dig a 20X20 plot in a morning. it really doesn't take that long to do. -- and each year seems to get easier. (and i seem to "fluff up" a little bit more each year as the further and further break up the soil.) > [No, you can't do it with a roto-tiller ! :-) ] A-men! i borrowed a tiller once from neighbours. worst afternoon ever in the garden. and i only got 8 inches down. -- Lance R. Bailey System/Network Manager Robarts Research Institute NeXT/email: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca box: Clinical Trials Resources Group fax: +1 519 663 3789 P.O. Box 5015, 100 Perth Dr. vox: +1 519 663 3787 x4108 London, Canada N6A 5K8 Outside of a dog,a book is man's best friend.Inside of a dog,it's too dark--Marx From ron@mlfarm.com Tue Sep 14 21:32:10 EDT 1993 Article: 22601 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mlfarm!auda!ron From: ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence) Subject: Re: Wheel hoes In-Reply-To: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca's message of Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:35:48 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 23 Nntp-Posting-Host: auda.mlfarm.com Organization: Maple Lawn Farm, Stonington, CT References: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 12:28:31 GMT Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:6430 rec.gardens:22601 Peter Smith writes: I'd appreciate hearing about your experiences with human-powered wheel hoes. In particular, work in heavy soil using attachments to: cultivate/weed, make potato/other furrows and any other uses you found for them. We use a big-wheel hoe/plow in the garden. In light, well-cultivated soils it's a great tool for making furrows and weeding between rows -- pleasant to use, aesthetically satisfying, and a refreshing reminder that good older technology is still useful. This year we tried it on a new garden. In the heavier soil, the furrowing and cultivator attachments were exhausting to use and generally ineffective. We're harrowing twenty tons of sheep manure compost into that garden this fall. We may harrow in a few big dump truck loads of spent mushroom compost or horse manure too. With enough organic matter in the soil, next year I expect the big-wheel hoe will be a useful and pleasant tool in the new garden too. -- Ronald Florence ron@mlfarm.com From bmoon@eis.calstate.edu Tue Sep 14 21:36:12 EDT 1993 Article: 22617 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!koko.csustan.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Heritage fruit trees? Message-ID: From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1993 00:08:28 GMT References: Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 17 You can get apple trees on dwarfing rootstocks down to the size of bushes. The size you are talking about is very popular now for commercial growers. Rootstocks vary in their tolerance for heavy and damp soils . Two Northwest companies sent me catalogs last year; I have not ordered form them but they present themeselves as reputable and are encyclopedic in the information. Write or call them: Raintree Nursery , 391 Butts Road, Morton, WA 98356, (206) 496-6400 Northwoods Retail Nursery, 27635 S. Oglesby Rd., Canby, OR 97013 The Raintree catalog has a coupon for Friends of Fruit based at WSU ($20) which includes tasting of 100 varieties at the experimental station at Mt. Vernon. I just joined the California Rare Fruit Growers; they exchange scions, have tastings, etc. You picked a good time to plan your trees. Bare root season is in Janurary- March and is the best time to plant. -- Bruce Moon Rio Linda, CA From djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com Tue Sep 14 21:38:51 EDT 1993 Article: 22649 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!att-out!cbnewsd!cbnewsc!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Wanted: catalog suggestions Message-ID: Date: 14 Sep 93 16:38:28 GMT References: <272j9s$b3u@morrow.stanford.edu> Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T Lines: 39 In article <272j9s$b3u@morrow.stanford.edu> Kathy Rehm Switky writes: >Hello fellow dirt lovers, >I am just planning my first garden for my new house, and would like >suggestions from the net about seed catalogs. I'm interested in organic >seeds, local varieties, and heirloom seeds in particular. I'm also >interested in mail-ordering some unusual fruit trees.... (lines omitted) Some one last week asked about unusual fruit trees, and I had no info then. But now I have hit the mother lode. That is, I just received a book I sent for from the Seed Savers Exchange, titled "Fruit, Berry and Nut Inventory". It lists thousands of cultivars and (!!!) where they can be ordered. I was up quite late last night reading it, and can't begin to list all the neat stuff. For example, under "Miscellaneous Nuts" (a chapter I was somehow drawn to) I found "Yellowhorn (Xanthoceras sorbifolia)" listed as an ornamental small tree, hardy to -30, with nuts that taste like macadamias! I gotta have it! Also it lists regular and cold hardy citruses, rhubarbs (rhubarbi?), hops's (hopi?), grapes, strawberries, and of course many many apples, peaches, etc., including heirloom and unusual varieties. My favorite section is the "Miscellaneous" in the very back. It lists several cultivars of Cornus Mas--which is what I have been looking for. Also a honeysuckle with edible berries. Also, buffalo berry. Also autumn olive.` I could go on and on. I wish I could post the book, and I will post neat stuff I find every so often. If anyone wants to order the book write to Seed Savers Exchange, 3076 North Winn Road Decorah, Iowa 52101 The book cost me $22 total, softcover. (No, I don't work for them, and they are not paying me for a plug.) Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio, Zone 5 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.mentorg.com!news Thu Sep 16 04:37:55 EDT 1993 Article: 22697 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.mentorg.com!news From: johnt@mentorg.com (John Thienes) Subject: Try Smith and Hawken was: Where to get rotary mower? Sender: news@news.mentorg.com (News User) Message-ID: <1993Sep15.151203.1169@news.mentorg.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 15:12:03 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: johnthie.mentorg.com Organization: Mentor Graphics Corporation, Wilsonville, OR Lines: 41 < And lo, on 14 Sep 1993 18:21:19 GMT, Dawn Burgess spake in this wise:> > >One of the most important qualities of a good reel mower (and most likely >to be missing on one of those $80 jobbies) is weight. It should be HEAVY. >Far from making mowing more work, a heavy mower grabs the ground better >and keeps the wheels from skipping (and not turning) when you get into >thick grass. The old ones you get for $20 at garage sales are your >best bet if you don't want to shell out real money ($200?) for the >mower. Even if they look terrible, they can usually be sharpened and >oiled and work fine. Dawn has it right. Weight is important, and so is the amount of adjustments that can be made for cutting height. Earlier this summer I had an old (30+ years old) Sears Craftsman push mower retire rather suddenly due to conditions related to various infirmities attributed to age and an accumlation of harsh treatment from a previous owner. Being a confirmed Luddite as regards most lawn and gardening tools, I was not about to be convinced that I should rush right out and buy a smoke-blowing, piston-clanking power mower to finish the mowing chore left undone by the demise of the late implement. Smith & Hawken, a gardening catalog company in California, had just what I needed: A big (18"), six-bladed, and heavy as it turns out, "Silent-Reel" reel mower for the princely sum of $250. The grass-catcher was extra at $50. Three-hundred dollars _is_ a lot of money for a lawn mower, but I figure with proper care and maintenance my children's children will be able to use it long after any budget, gas-fueled mower has been left surreptiously, after hours, at the thrift-shop as a "donation." Is is a good mower? I'd say so. It features quarter-inch cutting adjustments from 2-1/2" to 1/4" by simple levers at the wheels or at the roller behind the blades or a combination of the two. Even though the mower is heavy it's very easy to push because the blades do not touch the cutter bar, clearing it instead by .003", which is more than sufficient. And it's quiet--the grass catcher probably makes more noise bumping along behind than do the blades. -- John Thienes "Soli Gloria Deo" Mentor Graphics Corp. john_thienes@mentorg.com From hathaway@stsci.edu Thu Sep 16 04:41:16 EDT 1993 Article: 22722 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens,misc.health.alternative Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!asuvax!ncar!noao!stsci!stosc!hathaway From: hathaway@stsci.edu Subject: Re: collecting herb oils Message-ID: <1993Sep15.171759.1@stsci.edu> Lines: 43 Sender: news@stsci.edu Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute References: <277cv6$dlm@garuda.csulb.edu> Distribution: na Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 22:17:59 GMT Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:22722 misc.health.alternative:4666 In article <277cv6$dlm@garuda.csulb.edu>, ries@beach.csulb.edu (Marc Ries) writes: > In article , > KAREN HUSSEY wrote: >> >>I am still looking for information on collecting the oils of >>various herbs such as St. John's Wort and evening primrose and >>others. Are there any source books available on this subject? > > I don't have the answer (more questions, though). I'm under > the general impression that herb/plant oils are extracted > via a heat/steam extraction process. I also know that at > least one company sells a plant/herb pressure to make > "tincture." > .. > I would be interested in any books on the subject, as well. > > Marc Ries > ries@csulb.edu > Be careful with extracting evening primrose - it contains a very high percentage of the essential fatty acid Linoleic Acid (also known as Omega-6). This is considered a Very Good - even necessary - oil for nutrition (hence the 'essential' name.) The problem with such essential oils (there is one other for humans - Omega-3) is they are very sensitive to heat (and light and oxygen). They will spoil and turn rancid quickly unless they are carefully extracted, bottled, and stored *without* heat or light or oxygen. Broken down, they are not only useless for nutrition, they can be down-right toxic. Done properly they are great. This spoilage problem is the main reason why such vital oils are not in processed foods - the manufacturers remove it as it is too much trouble for them to care for it properly and still make money. It is also the reason why your fresh foods from your gardens are so much better than anything in the stores or junk food palaces. I do not know of a source for getting evening primrose oil but I bet it is expensive. Other seeds also contain this oil. My book source for this is: _Fats and Oils - The Complete Guide to Fats and Oils in Health and Nutrition_ by Udo Erasmus, 1986 ISBN 0-920470-10-5 - Alive Books, Vancouver, Canada. Hope this helps, Wm. Hathaway Baltimore MD From af280@Freenet.carleton.ca Thu Sep 16 04:41:38 EDT 1993 Article: 22731 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!af280 From: af280@Freenet.carleton.ca (Sandra P. Hoffman) Subject: Re: collecting herb oils Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: af280@Freenet.carleton.ca (Sandra P. Hoffman) Organization: The National Capital Freenet References: <277cv6$dlm@garuda.csulb.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 01:08:40 GMT Lines: 42 In a previous article, ries@beach.csulb.edu (Marc Ries) says: >In article , >KAREN HUSSEY wrote: >> >>I am still looking for information on collecting the oils of >>various herbs such as St. John's Wort and evening primrose and >>others. Are there any source books available on this subject? > > I don't have the answer (more questions, though). I'm under > the general impression that herb/plant oils are extracted > via a heat/steam extraction process. I also know that at > least one company sells a plant/herb pressure to make > "tincture." > > What's the difference between extracted oils and extracted > tincture. What can you use tinctures for that you can't > use oils for (and vice-versa)? > > I would be interested in any books on the subject, as well. > > Marc Ries > ries@csulb.edu > > Simply put, a tincture is an alcohol or vinegar extraction. You basically steep the herb in alcohol or vinegar for a period of time. "Essential oils cannot be made easily at home. They are the pure plant oil, usually extracted by chemicals or hot steam. Hundreds of pounds/kilograms of fresh plant material may produce only a few ounces/cl of essential oil." >From _Healing Wise_ by Susun Weed. This book has excellent descriptions of how to make tinctures, infused oils and lotions. Since you will probably have to special order it the isbn 0-9614620-2-7 -- ---------------------- enough, or too much ---------------------------- sandra af280@freenet.carleton.ca ottawa canada usda zone5 agcan zone 4 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Sat Sep 18 01:50:42 EDT 1993 Article: 199 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Soil Retention Solutions? Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 13:07:47 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 27 Well, the rain last night washed away about half of my new topsoil. Ed Poole (whose name is truly dirt now) of Poole & Assoc. had promised me that the grading was adequate to keep it from washing away until the grass came in, so I am following up with him to see if he is willing to do anything, but I'm not counting on it. I only had his verbal assurance in response to my question of what I needed to do to retain it until the grass came up. After literally watching a few hundred dollars go down the drain, I am hesitant to go out and spend more unless I have some kind of protection against a recurrence of the erosion. My yard is sloped toward the back with a rise/run of maybe 1/10. Not steep enough to be a real hill; when I had some grass growing and mowed it I did not have to take it into account when choosing my route. Anyway, any suggestions? I was thinking of the netting; would it be a problem to rake out thatch if you use that? I had the yard slit seeded on Tuesday. I am having them come out and look to see if it needs done again. Does netting need to be removed to allow that? -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com First rule of software standards specifications: "If you understand it, it must be obsolete." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Sat Sep 18 01:50:43 EDT 1993 Article: 200 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Poole & Assoc. Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 15:22:14 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 27 In article , sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) writes: |> |> Well, the rain last night washed away about half of my new topsoil. Ed Poole |> (whose name is truly dirt now) of Poole & Assoc. had promised me that the |> grading was adequate to keep it from washing away until the grass came in, so |> I am following up with him to see if he is willing to do anything, but I'm |> not counting on it. I only had his verbal assurance in response to my question |> of what I needed to do to retain it until the grass came up. Well, I talked to Poole. He wants to sell me more dirt at full price. I declined his "offer". He said that last night's rains were "highly unusual" and not what he expected when he said the dirt would not wash. Since I have seen similar rains several times in the nine months I have been in the house, I don't agree with him. This was exactly the situation I was concerned about when I questioned him earlier. I did not expect that he would offer to fix it for nothing, but I expected more of an apology for the misinformation and at least an offer of a reduced rate for more soil. I got neither. I will not be using them again. -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com First rule of software standards specifications: "If you understand it, it must be obsolete." From heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Sun Sep 19 22:56:57 EDT 1993 Article: 22783 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!nic.csu.net!cerritos.edu!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: CONFERENCE ON BIOTECHNOLOGY OF BACILLUS THURINGIENSIS Message-ID: <27da7b$6m7@falstaff.css.beckman.com> From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) Date: 17 Sep 1993 14:29:15 -0700 Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Distribution: world Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc. NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com Lines: 181 I thought there might be one or more people on rec.gardens that would be interested in this... Matt Heffron --------------------Forwarded Article-------------------- >From: FJUT028@TWNMOE10.BITNET (C. Lan) >Date: 17 Sep 93 00:28:39 GMT >Newsgroups: bionet.announce >Subject: CONFERENCE ON BIOTECHNOLOGY OF BACILLUS THURINGIENSIS First Announcement THE PACIFIC RIM CONFERENCE ON BIOTECHNOLOGY OF BACILLUS THURINGIENSIS AND ITS IMPACT TO THE ENVIRONMENT October 17 - 21, 1994 In order to promote the use of BACILLUS THURINGIENSIS (B.t.)-based insecticides in the Pacific rim region, the conference is being organized by a group of scientists from the universities, government institutions, and B.t. industries from Taiwan, Japan, and the U.S.A. The conference will be held in the Academic Activity Center, Academia Sinica, Taipei, Taiwan, which can accommodate around 200 participants. In addition to the speakers from the U.S.A. and Canada, the conference organizers plan to invite as many speakers as possible from the Asia- Pacific area. The goals of the conference are: * To promote the biotechnolgy of B.t. for the agricultural industry; to exchange the latest information on strain isolation and identification; to review the current topics on the molecular biology of the insecticidal proteins, transgenic plants, resistance management and field application of B.t. products in the Asian Pacific environment. * To promote collaboration among scientists working on B.t. in the Pacific rim region. Planned Topics of the Conference - New strains/genes discovery - Structural and function relationship of B.t. insecticidal proteins at the molecular level - Registration and application of recombinant B.t. products - Resistance management - Impact to the environment Organizing Committee (listed in the alphabetical order) (1) Local organizing committee: Dr. K.-F. Chak (National Yang-Ming Medical College) (Secretary General) Dr. S.-S. Chang (National Taiwan University) Dr. L.-J. Chen ( National Chung Hsing University) Dr. T.-Y. Feng (Academia Sinica) (Coordinator) Dr. S.-S. Kao (Taiwan Agricultural Chemicals and Toxic Substances Research Institute) Dr. C.-L. Lan (Fu Jen Catholic University) Dr. H.-S. Tsai (Taiwan Agricultural Research Institute) (2) Organizing Committee for North America: Dr. Michael Adang (University of Georgia) Dr. Bruce Carlton (Ecogen Inc.) Dr. Thomas Currier (Ciba-Geigy Corp.) Dr. Donald Dean (Ohio State University) Dr. James Wong (Dupont Company) Dr. Leo Kim (Mycogen Corp.) Dr. Robert Smith (Abbott Lab.) Dr. Robert Starnes (Entotech Inc.) Dr. Takashi Yamamoto (Sandoz Agro Inc.) (Coordinator) (3) Organizing Committee for Japan Dr. Toshihiko Iizuka (Hokkaido University) (Coordinator) Sponsor (1) National Science Council, Taiwan, R.O.C. (2) Institute of Botany, Academia Sinica, Taiwan, R.O.C. (3) Environmental Protection Administration, Taiwan, R.O.C. (4) Chinese Biochemical Society, Taiwan. R.O.C. (5) Industrial companies from R.O.C., the U.S.A., and Japan Registration If you are interested in participating in this Conference, please complete and return the enclosed form before March 1994. The participants will then receive the Second Announcement in March 1994, consisting of the final registration form, summary of the scientific programme and a list of hotels in Taipei and the residence hall in Academia Sinica. The deadline for submitting abstracts for oral presentations and posters is July 1, 1994. Correspondence All correspondence concerning the conference must address to the Coodinator of the Conference in Taiwan: Dr. T-Y Feng c/o The Pacific Rim Conference of B.t. Institute of Botany Academia Sinica Taipei, Taiwan 11529 Fax#: 886-2-7827954 Phone#: 886-2-7899590 E-mail: BOFENG@CCVAX.AS.EDU.TW Application Form For further infomation, please return this form to the Coordinator of the Conference in Taiwan before March 1, 1994. Those who are in the U.S.A., Canada and Japan can send this form to: In the U.S.A. and Canada: In Japan: Dr. T. Yamamoto Dr. T. Iizuka Sandoz Agro, Inc. Faculty of Agriculture 975 California Avenue Hokkaido University Palo Alto, CA 94304 Sapporo, Hokkaido 060 Phone#: 1-415-354-3561 Phone#: 81-11-716-2111 ext 2423 Fax#: 1-415-493-1073 Fax#: 81-11-716-0879 E-Mail#: yamamoto@palres.dnet.sandoz.com Name: _________________________ Affiliation: ___________________________________________________ Address: _______________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________ Telephone#: ____________________ FAX#: ______________________ E-mail#: __________________________________ ___ I would like to attend the conference, please send me the 2nd Announcement ____ I would like to submit abstract(s) for presentation ____ Please send the 2nd Announcement to my colleagues : Name: _________________ Address: ______________________________________________ ______________________________________________ ______________________________________________ --------------------End Forwarded Article-------------------- -- Matt Heffron heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com Beckman Instruments, Inc. voice: (714) 961-3128 2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-10, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100 I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so. From Schroede@tetons.igis.uiuc.edu Sun Sep 19 22:57:07 EDT 1993 Article: 22797 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!tetons!schroede From: schroede@tetons.igis.uiuc.edu (Erich Schroeder) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: USDA Hardiness Zones Digitized? Date: 18 Sep 1993 19:56:44 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 14 Message-ID: <27fp5s$m1h@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Reply-To: Schroede@tetons.igis.uiuc.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: tetons.igis.uiuc.edu Hello: I'm looking for a digitized copy of the recent USDA hardiness zones. I want to be able to import these into a Geographic Information System (GIS), so it is best if they are in some known map projection, or Latitude/longitude. I've already posted to comp.infosystems.gis, the gis newsgroup, but no answer yet, so I'm trying here. Thanks Erich Schroeder Illinois State Museum GIS lab schroede@tetons.igis.uiuc.edu From af763@Freenet.carleton.ca Sun Sep 19 22:57:24 EDT 1993 Article: 22805 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!af763 From: af763@Freenet.carleton.ca (John V Matthews Jr.) Subject: Re: USDA Hardiness Zones Digitized? Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: af763@Freenet.carleton.ca (John V Matthews Jr.) Organization: The National Capital Freenet References: <27fp5s$m1h@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1993 10:40:48 GMT Lines: 29 In a previous article, schroede@tetons.igis.uiuc.edu (Erich Schroeder) says: >Hello: > I'm looking for a digitized copy of the recent >USDA hardiness zones. I want to be able to import >these into a Geographic Information System (GIS), so >it is best if they are in some known map projection, or >Latitude/longitude. I've already posted to >comp.infosystems.gis, the gis newsgroup, but no >answer yet, so I'm trying here. > >Thanks >Erich Schroeder >Illinois State Museum GIS lab >schroede@tetons.igis.uiuc.edu > I too would like to know the answer to this question. But barring that, where can I obtain a copy of the most recent map showing North American Hardiness Zones. I saw an advertisement in a garden or hoticulture magazine not long ago, but lost the reference. Any one can help? John Matthews -- ***************************************** JOHN MATTHEWS matthews@cc2smtp.emr.ca; af763@freenet.carleton.ca From gordonse@ucbeh.san.uc.edu Sun Sep 19 22:58:04 EDT 1993 Article: 22800 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!ucbeh!gordonse From: gordonse@ucbeh.san.uc.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: New List-- MaxLife-L Message-ID: <1993Sep18.214913.4622@ucbeh> Date: 18 Sep 93 21:49:13 EDT Distribution: world Lines: 58 MAXLIFE-L MaxLife-L is a list for those working toward a positive, healthy life style while at the same time choosing to avoid heavy consumerism. It is for people who choose their activities with careful consideration to the pleasure they bring as well as all their costs. If you like any of the following, you might like this list: Voluntary Simplicity by Elgin The Tightwad Gazette by Amy Dacyczyn One Circle Gardening by David Duhon Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin The Utne Reader Veggie Life Organic Gardening Utne Salons Topics invited for posting include how you are simplifying your life, how you are bringing more pleasure to yourself and others, tips for saving money, low(er)-cost vegetarian recipes, things you like about your life and things you want to change, groups you are involved with that support your lifestyle/changes, books or magazines you would like to recommend, other email lists or ftp sites related to the list, questions concerning changes you would like to make, thoughtful or thought provoking quotes, and any other related information. Posters are requested to be helpful and constructive and avoid flaming other posters. The list is intended as an offering of helpful ideas and not intended to pressure people into adopting a certain type or level of lifestyle. Please read all available MaxLife-L postings after logging in before responding to avoid duplicate posts. To join send a message to mailserv@iris.uncg.edu In the body of the message type Subscribe maxlife-L Please note that this is a MAILSERV and not a listserv. To unsubscribe type the following in the body of the message unsubscribe maxlife-L Due to the fact that this is a mailserv, postings are not archived and the usual listserv options are unfortunately not available. Mailserv is a distribution style software only. Once you have joined send posts to maxlife-l@iris.uncg.edu Happy posting! Sharon Gordon gordonse@uncg.bitnet gordonse@iris.uncg.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!sunic!corax.udac.uu.se!zeta.bmc.uu.se!daresbury!bioftp.unibas.ch!rc1!is2.bfu.vub.ac.be!waverheu Mon Sep 20 13:38:04 EDT 1993 Article: 22818 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!sunic!corax.udac.uu.se!zeta.bmc.uu.se!daresbury!bioftp.unibas.ch!rc1!is2.bfu.vub.ac.be!waverheu From: waverheu@vub.ac.be (Willy A Verheulpen) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,bionet.plants Subject: seeds dormancy & germination Message-ID: Date: 20 Sep 93 08:48:25 GMT Sender: news@rc1.vub.ac.be Distribution: world Organization: Institute Molecular Biology, Brussels Free University Lines: 29 X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:22818 bionet.plants:1762 Hello everyone, Does anyone have any info on enhancing seeds germination. This interests me very much. The striation/scratching & sulphuric acid treatments are known in the raising of many plant species.(I am mainly interested in cacti) I am more interested in experiments that show a chemical/ biochemical or other influence that breaks seeds dormancy and that is able to amplify the seeds germination rate. I know giberillines are used as such but is there anyone who has experimented with these? With what results? I have come across a reference in German literature where they speak of "something" they call "KAPROMIN". Has anyone ever heard of this? I have no idea wheter this is a single component/mix/commercial name or whatever. Experiments are mentioned by which germination experiments show 0% germination wh the compound up to 60% germination when the compound is used or even applied afther sowing. Would very much appreciate your comments. I##################################################################I I I I Willy A Verheulpen Systems Coordination I I Brussels Free University Institute Molecular Biology I I e-mail : waverheu@vub.ac.be I I I I##################################################################I From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!sunic!corax.udac.uu.se!zeta.bmc.uu.se!daresbury!bioftp.unibas.ch!rc1!is2.bfu.vub.ac.be!waverheu Mon Sep 20 13:38:13 EDT 1993 Article: 22819 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!sunic!corax.udac.uu.se!zeta.bmc.uu.se!daresbury!bioftp.unibas.ch!rc1!is2.bfu.vub.ac.be!waverheu From: waverheu@vub.ac.be (Willy A Verheulpen) Newsgroups: bionet.plants,sci.bio,rec.gardens Subject: BIPLANTOL?? Message-ID: Date: 20 Sep 93 08:50:25 GMT Sender: news@rc1.vub.ac.be Distribution: world Organization: Institute Molecular Biology, Brussels Free University Lines: 46 X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu bionet.plants:1763 sci.bio:10483 rec.gardens:22819 Hello everyone, Has anyone on the list ever heard of a plants regeneration solution by the name of "BIPLANTOL"? I am using it in raising young ornamental plants & the effect is just astonishing.(plants = cacti). The solution comes in an "homeopathic" concentration & is to be diluted 1/1000. The saying goes that it was initially developped to regenerate the forests that are attacked by acid rain. The leaflet says. Biplantol is a biological-biochemical "metabolic compounds" activator in an "homeopathic-activated" form. It regulates and de-toxicates the plant metabolism. Action on the soil: -activates micro-organisms -enhances soil micro-climate -regeneration & re-activation of over-fertlised and intoxicated soils -repair of symbiosis of root & soilorganisms Action on plants: -supports a better root functioning -supports a better new rooting -regenerates the whole root system when spoiled in soils overloaded with environmental toxins. Solution claims to contain the activated forms of the spore elements + "uronic acids"? Solution is absorbed by all parts of the plant, root as well as leaves.(or needles) It is "made" by a Swiss company situated in THUN. Did I pay much for a bottle of "enhanced" water? I find this hard to believe because I DO see an effect! Would wellcome yr comments if any! I##################################################################I I I I Willy A Verheulpen Systems Coordination I I Brussels Free University Institute Molecular Biology I I e-mail : waverheu@vub.ac.be I I I I##################################################################I From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!caen!uvaarpa!murdoch!hopper!adamf Mon Sep 20 13:40:36 EDT 1993 Article: 22820 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!caen!uvaarpa!murdoch!hopper!adamf From: adamf@hopper.ACS.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Re: Removal of weeds Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: U.Va. Internet Public Access Project References: <27i0fkINN9df@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1993 10:21:27 GMT Lines: 22 weeds are most voulnerable at certain times in their lives: like right before they produce seeds, or right after they emerge from the soil. Zapping them at these times with an hebicide makes sense and is cost effective. The lawn guru might have meant this, i.e. cropping the weeds and then, as they re grew, stressed, the hebicide would be more effective. "Roundup" is glyphosate, and non toxic to mammals, although some of the inert ingredients are perhaps not too great, but generally, "Roundup" is easy and safe to use. One may buy much more concentrated formulations than the type sold in lawn & garden stores(as previous poster said) look or ask for agricultural formulations at "feed" stores or "ranch supply " dealers I would not mess with the brush hebicide - ones containing 2,4,D as this chemical is carcinogenic, and dangerous to the homeowner. If a paid worker was going to use it, fine, its their risk. I would get a few more estimates from other lawn gurus. Good luck! Adam -- Adam Finkelstein Apiary Inspector Virginia Dept of Agriculture 116 Reservoir St. 703-433-1006 Standard Disclaimers Apply Harrisonburg, VA 22801 703-434-5607 (fax) adamf@hopper.acs.virginia.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!richter Mon Sep 20 13:41:17 EDT 1993 Article: 22821 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: bionet.plants,sci.bio,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!richter From: richter@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) Subject: Re: BIPLANTOL?? Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1993 10:39:44 GMT Lines: 18 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu bionet.plants:1764 sci.bio:10484 rec.gardens:22821 In article , Willy A Verheulpen wrote: >Hello everyone, >Has anyone on the list ever heard of a plants regeneration >solution by the name of "BIPLANTOL"? [.....] >Solution claims to contain the activated forms of the spore >elements + "uronic acids"? Uronic acids are a major component of cell walls, especially of the ion-exchanging fraction. If the homeopathic principle does indeed work in plants, then I suppose there is merit in including spore elements and uronic acids since contact with these may signal an invasion by fungi, bacteria, or competition in the root zone from other plants. I very much doubt, however, that anyone has shown that the homeopathic principle works in plants. Conrad Richter From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!stngiam Mon Sep 20 13:42:51 EDT 1993 Article: 22829 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!stngiam From: stngiam@athena.mit.edu (Shih-Tung Ngiam) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: USDA Hardiness Zones Digitized? Date: 20 Sep 1993 15:17:06 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <27fp5s$m1h@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: m66-452-1.mit.edu In-reply-to: af763@Freenet.carleton.ca's message of Sun, 19 Sep 1993 10:40:48 GMT >I too would like to know the answer to this question. But barring that, >where can I obtain a copy of the most recent map showing North American >Hardiness Zones. I saw an advertisement in a garden or hoticulture >magazine not long ago, but lost the reference. US Government bookstores sell a map for the US. I don't remember how much of Canada it shows. Those south of the border can get one at the nearest US govt border, or bug me to post the mail order address after a few days :-). I'll try to find my catalog at home. Shih Tung From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!trixie!blad.rtpnc.epa.gov!bolstad Wed Sep 22 00:11:34 EDT 1993 Article: 201 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!trixie!blad.rtpnc.epa.gov!bolstad From: bolstad@blad.rtpnc.epa.gov (Mark Bolstad) Subject: Fescue, Fescue, Oh, which Fescue? Message-ID: <1993Sep21.115918.7496@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> Sender: usenet@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov (Usenet NEWS) Nntp-Posting-Host: blad.rtpnc.epa.gov Organization: Martin Marietta Services Group Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 11:59:18 GMT Lines: 24 It's time to re-seed the ol' lawn and do that other lawn stuff. With so many choices of seed I was wondering if you folks had any recommendations. I currently have a mixture of K31 (layed by the builder), Rebel II, and Creeping Red Fescue. I tried Rebel Jr. in a test area and wasn't that pleased with the results (it grows so slow that the weeds overtook the area and crowded out the grass). I like the look of Creeping Red (fine blade, dense growth), but it is a shade grass and I have a mixture of all shade, morning sun, afternoon sun, and full sun. The areas in full sun are where I am having the most trouble. Anyway the brands I am looking at this year are: Enviro Triad Eagle(?) My own mix of one of the above,Creeping Red, and Ken. Bluegrass. I don't want to use Rebel this year because, incresing the diversity of the lawn increases its resistance to disease and pests. Thanks, Mark bolstad@vislab.epa.gov From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Wed Sep 22 00:11:35 EDT 1993 Article: 202 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Re: Fescue + A dirty suggestion... Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 12:46:10 GMT References: <1993Sep21.115918.7496@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 42 In article <1993Sep21.115918.7496@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov>, bolstad@blad.rtpnc.epa.gov (Mark Bolstad) writes: |> It's time to re-seed the ol' lawn and do that other lawn stuff. |> With so many choices of seed I was wondering if you folks had any |> recommendations. I currently have a mixture of K31 (layed by the builder), More from my lawn service than from me: They mix K31 with red, and go with more K31 in the sunny areas, and more red in the shade (but I think it is still primarily K31). I like finer grass, but I also want year around grass. I was told that tall fescue is the only reasonable solution (or move or spend big $) and I just have to admire the fine grass when I golf. Sigh... My "dirty suggestion" A few days ago I posted about problems I had with erosion on my new topsoil with the big rain last week. I found over the weekend that I had more displaced than lost, but still had lost a fair amount, so I brought in a little more. I went to HQ and bought the $0.98 bags of topsoil, which is *very* good soil. I was surprised to notice that the price comes out to be about the same, and possibly a little less, than buying it by the truckload, and the quality is better; no rocks or sticks, extremely rich dirt. I noticed this when I had 18 bags on a dolly; the stack was roughly 2 cu.yds. and I paid $10/cu.yd. when I got topsoil by the truckload. Anyway, I had always just assumed that for any job that required more than just a little bit of dirt, I would be spending too much getting it by the bag; not so! There are also other advantages. I can haul it in the car. My "pile" was in bags and real easy to distribute. It was easy to be sure it was evenly distributed. If you guess wrong on the amount you need, it's easy to get more or you can even take some back (try calling the truck back and asking for a partial refund). -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com First rule of software standards specifications: "If you understand it, it must be obsolete." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!wndrsvr!johnm Wed Sep 22 00:25:52 EDT 1993 Article: 22856 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!wndrsvr!johnm From: johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (johnm) Subject: Enhanced Seed Germination Message-ID: Sender: johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (John Marzolino) Organization: WNDRSVR - Public Access for Southern California +1-310-370-3069 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 16:16:47 GMT Lines: 13 Years ago I read of soaking seeds in tea to enhance germination. I have done this a lot for grass seed and vegetable seeds. At the time I was not into controlled experiments but it seemed to work well. I am not sure what chemicals are in tea, but I would pass this along for what it's worth. BTW one advantage of this is that tea is safe and easy to come by. John Marzolino Compuserve 71242,1610 Internet Johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.usa [*> Management may or may not agree with the above message. [*> WndrSvr in Southern California; Call +1-310-370-3069 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier Wed Sep 22 00:28:34 EDT 1993 Article: 22866 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Visit to Seed Saver's Exchange Message-ID: <1993Sep21.203231.16941@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 21 Sep 93 20:32:31 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 93 Well, did something I always wanted to do... visited Seed Savers Exchange this weekend, with some of my students. A gorgeous, glorious fall afternoon... couldn't have asked for nicer weather. The orchard manager graciously gave us a tour of the heritage gardens and the orchard area, as well as the work/seed storage area.... Seed Savers is a little different in philosophy and purpose from the standard germplasm repository. It's a grassroots movement for saving old cultivars, particularly those that have cultural or historical significance. As such, SSE doesn't concentrate on saving all the possible genes they can (like the USDA Plant Introduction Stations), but on retaining as many old cultivars as possible... particularly in light of the *great reduction* in numbers of commercially available cultivars. The Heritage Farm is a sort of test plot of some of the crops and cultivars that are in the SSE files... I was taking pictures instead of notes (shame on me!), but I believe the stats were several thousand cultivars EACH of tomatoes and peppers, not to mention the beans, corn, peas, squash, okra.... Single plants of a number of cultivars were growing side by side for easy comparison... in the tomatoes, there were a number of "black" Russian cultivars (very dark red and sweet), pink tomatoes, orange tomatoes, yellow tomatoes, cherry tomatoes, potato-leafed tomatoes, tomatoes with "wild type stigmas".... rather impressive to see them all lined up side by each... about 300 tomato cvs in the garden this year. Of course, it's been a rotten year for gardening in Iowa this year... but a great year to check for resistance to all sorts of fungal disease!... so the gardens weren't at their best, but still quite enjoyable. The garden is organically managed, so some of the plants were looking pretty sad.... but some were doing _very_ well. Heritage Farm does not produce most of the seed: instead it's a demonstration garden and produces a small amount of seed for storage. People swap seed with each other, not with the farm (generally speaking)... One of the surprises (to me!) was the old "garden of eden" "wild petunia", the lavender/pink/white single that reseeds itself year after year... they were growing several rows of it for a commercial seed company, following the wild success of an offer for it in last year's swap sheet. David Cavagnero, the garden manager, had given the orchard manager's 12 year old a cottage cheese carton of the seed, and she listed it in the yearbook last year... and was *swamped with requests* (you also send $1 for each type of seed you request, and petunia seed is very small, so she was "richer than any 12 year old ought to be! ;-) ) Many of the crops that outcross readily are not produced at the farm... instead, SSE commandeers a little space in "the garden of every liberal minded ex-hippie in Winnesheik County" and plants a cabbage, a carrot, and a beet for seed production. Another phase of SSE is a vineyard and apple orchard. The vineyard is just getting started... Elmer Swenson, an elderly northern Minnesotan, started breeding hardy grapes for Minnesota 60+ years ago after his first taste of Flame Tokays... he found a book on grape breeding, and started crossing native hardy Vitis riparia with the wine and table grapes of Europe, choosing the hardiest of the seedlings by a simple selection procedure: His seedling bed is located on the top of a windy hill... no snow cover most of the winter. Anything that doesn't survive -30oF and desiccation was out of the program. Over the years, he's produced a number of very hardy grapes that are 3/4 or 7/8 V. vinifera... excellent table grapes. Several have been released, but there's many good grapes in his vineyard that haven't been released commerciallly. Chances are, if SSE or a similar minded individual hadn't propagated Elmer's grapes, they'd be gone within a few years after his death, just like the winter-hardy nectarines that were bulldozed at University of Minnesota when the nectarine breeder left. Anyhow, Elmer's grapes are an excellent lesson in what one person can do with native and exotic germplasm, even without "fancy genetics". The apple orchard is also a new project -- about 4 years old -- and the trees are just beginning to bear. They'd like to have a specimen of each named apple available in the 19th century... there's just a few hundred in the ground now. All of the apples are budded on (P22?) a superdwarfing Polish rootstock, and many are bearing. We were privleged to sample several apples... mm-mm! I could have spent the rest of the day there with my little penknife ... ;-) The orchard is managed on an IPM basis... in other words, the diseases or bugs that do little harm are left alone, and any chemicals that are used are to deal with MAJOR problems (like fireblight). Even then, sprays are not used unless certain environmental conditions make it likely that the disease could infect the trees. Wonderful day... wonderful place...wonderful people...marvelous plants... If you're ever in the Decorah, IA, area, take the North Winnesheik road north out of town, and hang a right at the Heritage Farm sign. You'll probably even come back again! and again! and again! Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Wed Sep 22 10:23:48 EDT 1993 Article: 203 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Re: A dirty suggestion... Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 11:00:42 GMT References: <1993Sep21.115918.7496@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 26 In article , sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) writes: |> [...] |> better; no rocks or sticks, extremely rich dirt. I noticed this when I had 18 |> bags on a dolly; the stack was roughly 2 cu.yds. and I paid $10/cu.yd. when I |> got topsoil by the truckload. Anyway, I had always just assumed that for any |> job that required more than just a little bit of dirt, I would be spending |> too much getting it by the bag; not so! Someone pointed out to me by email that I might have done a poor job of eyeballing the stack, and I should measure one bag. I did. OOPS!!! It is more expensive by the sack. My dolly full was a lot closer to one yard than two. I guess the rectanglar size, air space, bag ends hanging off, etc, made me think it was bigger. (And the sun was in my eyes and the dog must have eaten the rest of it and...) So my previous [mis]information if spread lightly over your lawn will fertilize about an acre (no; two!) or so. -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com First rule of software standards specifications: "If you understand it, it must be obsolete." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Wed Sep 22 10:23:49 EDT 1993 Article: 204 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Paying neighborhood kids Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 11:17:06 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 27 What are the prevailing rates in this area to pay kids for yard work? I am a new homeowner and new to the area. I have about a third of an acre, most of which will soon be lawn (maybe an hour to mow, tops). This weekend I will be away, so I hired one of my neighbor's kids to water. He hasn't done much yard work, and couldn't answer the "what do you usually charge" question. It takes about 40 minutes, with two sprinklers and a little hand watering due to the irregular shape of my lawn. For three days, I decided to pay $10, figuring $5/hr. Too much? Too little? What about mowing? I will usually do it, but sometimes I actually take a vacation. If I provide a mower and gas and it will take a kid an hour, what should I pay? Raking/blowing leaves? -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com First rule of software standards specifications: "If you understand it, it must be obsolete." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!wujek!kk Wed Sep 22 16:41:48 EDT 1993 Article: 205 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!wujek!kk From: kk@wujek.durham.nc.us (Krzysztof Kozminski) Subject: Re: A dirty suggestion... Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 15:50:40 GMT References: <1993Sep21.115918.7496@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> Organization: Relative Software, Inc. Lines: 42 In article (Andy Barnhart) writes: >In article , (Andy Barnhart) writes: >> [... about HQ bagged topsoil ] >> better; no rocks or sticks, extremely rich dirt. >> I noticed this when I had 18 bags on a dolly; the stack was roughly 2 >> cu.yds. and I paid $10/cu.yd. when I got topsoil by the truckload. >> [...] > >Someone pointed out to me by email that I might have done a poor job of >eyeballing the stack, and I should measure one bag. I did. OOPS!!! Yup, a dolly loaded with bags sure looks big. Some time ago, when I was wondering about the cost effectiveness of bulk vs. bagged topsoil, I actually measured these bags: they are about 30 quarts each, i.e. almost exactly 1 cubic foot, so you need 27 bags for a cubic yard. Expensive. Still, the prices around here are not that bad - when I did a perennial bed for my in-laws on Long Island, I found that I should have brought the basic supplies with me - the LI prices are something like $4/bag of topsoil, $5-$6/bag of pine bark mulch, $35/cu.yard of trucked-in topsoil. Yuck. In addition, I have to disagree with the phrase 'extremely rich dirt'. I used this bagged topsoil from HQ some time ago, and soon it looked like sand. I have no idea what gives it the black color, but whatever it is it was gone after the first rain (sorry to use the dirty word :-( As an experiment, get some of it in a glass, add water, shake, and let it settle. You get mostly sand, some humus and lots of black water. Also, this mix drains much too fast. A plug for my favorite topsoil place in the Triangle: B & B Topsoil in Durham. All screened, no sticks or stones, a mix of loam/humus/some sand. This is the only place I found that will tell you the pH of the stuff they sell (they usually have several mixes with different pH and may mix them to get what the customer wants). About $17/yard but worth every penny. Disclaimer: I have no connection to them other than being a satified customer... KK -- Kris Kozminski (kk@wujek.durham.nc.us) "Limit congressmen to two terms. One in office. One in jail." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasvcd Wed Sep 22 16:41:48 EDT 1993 Article: 206 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasvcd From: sasvcd@mite.unx.sas.com (Vincent DelGobbo) Subject: Re: A dirty suggestion... Originator: sasvcd@mite.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 16:50:24 GMT References: <1993Sep21.115918.7496@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> Nntp-Posting-Host: mite.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 20 In article , kk@wujek.durham.nc.us (Krzysztof Kozminski) writes: >A plug for my favorite topsoil place in the Triangle: B & B Topsoil in >Durham. All screened, no sticks or stones, a mix of loam/humus/some >sand. This is the only place I found that will tell you the pH of the >stuff they sell (they usually have several mixes with different pH and >may mix them to get what the customer wants). About $17/yard but worth >every penny. Disclaimer: I have no connection to them other than being >a satified customer... > >KK >-- >Kris Kozminski (kk@wujek.durham.nc.us) >"Limit congressmen to two terms. One in office. One in jail." I too have enjoyed dealing with B&B. It was a good product and they were very friendly. Same disclaimer applies. Vince From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb Wed Sep 22 16:41:49 EDT 1993 Article: 207 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasayb From: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com (Andy Barnhart) Subject: Re: A dirty suggestion... Originator: sasayb@caneel.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 17:20:58 GMT References: <1993Sep21.115918.7496@trixie.rtpnc.epa.gov> Nntp-Posting-Host: caneel.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 49 In article , kk@wujek.durham.nc.us (Krzysztof Kozminski) writes: |> In article (Andy Barnhart) writes: |> >In article , (Andy Barnhart) writes: |> >> [... about HQ bagged topsoil ] |> >> better; no rocks or sticks, extremely rich dirt. |> In addition, I have to disagree with the phrase 'extremely rich dirt'. |> I used this bagged topsoil from HQ some time ago, and soon it looked |> like sand. I have no idea what gives it the black color, but whatever |> it is it was gone after the first rain (sorry to use the dirty word :-( |> As an experiment, get some of it in a glass, add water, shake, and let |> it settle. You get mostly sand, some humus and lots of black water. |> Also, this mix drains much too fast. Boy, I'm just getting beat up all the way around ;-) I have not experienced these problems with it. Prior to my recent lawn planting experience, I have only used it around bushes where the soil was almost pure clay. In this case, the drainage was a blessing; I was having roots rot in the clay from the retained moisture. But when the big rain wiped out so much topsoil last week, one place I did not have the problem was a spot I had done myself with the HQ stuff. Granted, I had tilled up a little clay based soil that was mixed with the topsoil, but it had ankle deep water run over it and is still black (and did not seem to have lost seed). According to the bag, there are some guidelines for maximum sand content which they do not exceed. The amount of sand in my trucked in topsoil is disappointing, however. BTW, since the big wash came without my grass having come in yet, I got the following results: A lot of grass seed did not wash, and I do have a lot coming up now. The dirt guy (Poole), who had stated that his grading would keep it from washing, "offered" to sell me more dirt at a higher price per yard since it would be a smaller load. The lawn service (Hammerstone), who came out and seeded and fertilized before the rain, is coming back out to seed and fertilize the washed out areas (which I have raked smooth again) at no additional cost even though I told them that I would pay extra if need be (since I see no reason to blame them for anything). -- -Andy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Andy Barnhart sasayb@unx.sas.com First rule of software standards specifications: "If you understand it, it must be obsolete." From alanj@netcom.com Wed Sep 22 21:44:06 EDT 1993 Article: 22845 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens,bionet.plants Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!alanj From: alanj@netcom.com (Alan Jeddeloh) Subject: Re: seeds dormancy & germination Message-ID: Organization: None. I'm dis-Organized References: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 03:01:54 GMT Lines: 54 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:22845 bionet.plants:1768 In article waverheu@vub.ac.be (Willy A Verheulpen) writes: >Hello everyone, >Does anyone have any info on enhancing seeds germination. >This interests me very much. The striation/scratching & >sulphuric acid treatments are known in the raising >of many plant species.(I am mainly interested in cacti) >I am more interested in experiments that show a chemical/ >biochemical or other influence that breaks seeds dormancy >and that is able to amplify the seeds germination rate. >I know giberillines are used as such but is there anyone >who has experimented with these? With what results? >I have come across a reference in German literature where >they speak of "something" they call "KAPROMIN". Has anyone >ever heard of this? I have no idea wheter this is a single >component/mix/commercial name or whatever. >Experiments are mentioned by which germination experiments >show 0% germination wh the compound up to 60% germination >when the compound is used or even applied afther sowing. >Would very much appreciate your comments. > > >I##################################################################I There is a guy named Norman Deno who has experimented with gibberelic acid, primarily with alpines. He's written a book (self-published) on his experiences. There is a review of it in my October Horticulture (just arrived today) Deno's a ex chemistry prof who apparently conducted extensive research on seed germination. The prose is described a "knotty" which propably means the guy should have hired an editor. If you want a copy of the review E-mail me your snail mail address. His address is Dr. Norman Deno 139 Lenor Dr. State College, PA 16801 The book is titled Seed Germination Theory and Practice. Cost is $20 which includes surface mail oversears. Sorry for all the errors but I'm new on this system and am not a computer whiz bang Jan Jeddel oh>I I >I Willy A Verheulpen Systems Coordination I >I Brussels Free University Institute Molecular Biology I >I e-mail : waverheu@vub.ac.be I >I I >I##################################################################I > > -- From nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu Wed Sep 22 21:46:44 EDT 1993 Article: 22909 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!nuntius From: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu (Bob Klebba) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: USDA Hardiness Zones Digitized? Message-ID: <1993Sep22.050040.13001@nicmad.uucp> Date: 22 Sep 93 05:00:40 GMT References: <27fp5s$m1h@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation Lines: 51 Nntp-Posting-Host: mac1_00 X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 In article A.F.Kettle, afkettle@cen.ex.ac.uk writes: >Is a 'hardiness zone' the same as I have been seeing in various US >messages eg 'I'm in zone 5'? > >It looks like a fine bit of shorthand, but the trouble with all >shorthand is that it you don't know what it means then its no use. > >Could someone post a brief summary of what the climate is like in >these zones - or if that would take too long, then just tell me >what zone we are on this side of the pond! > >Thanks, Anna ;-) There are two "hardiness zone" maps of the US. One done by the USDA and the other by the Arnold Arboretum. There is also a third for the western US which has hundreds of microclimates, but I think the majority of Americans use the USDA map. I grew up with the USDA map and can't seem to reckon with the Arnold system. In any case the hardiness numberings go by winter cold. Plants also get killed by lack of moisture or too much summer heat, so the hardiness rating is just a guideline. I use it mostly for woody perennials. The herbaceous perennials survive well when we have snow cover all winter and get killed when the winters are warm. The zone definitions look something like: 1 below -50F (way cold) 2 -50 to -40F (most of Canada, but not where most Canadians are) 3 -40 to -30F (where Centrigrade and Fahrenheit meet) 4 -30 to -20F (where I live!) 5 -20 to -10F (where people can grow lots more plants than I can) 6 -10 to 0F (pecan trees) 7 0 to 10F (azaleas galore) 8 10 to 20F (yea, but it's hot in the summer) 9 20 to 30F (growing apples is questionable, not cold enough) 10 30 to 40F (I can see the palm fronds swaying) To give you an idea of my climate: I'm at 43 deg. N (same as Barcelona), first frost is 25 September, last 10 May. We get about 3" precipitation per month (in normal years) evenly distributed throughout the year. It's too cold for peaches, most pears, all Mediterranean grapes, sweet cherries. Nevertheless there is still a lot that can be grown here. Of course, the lakes freeze over in winter and people drive on them, but I'm sure you already knew that. Bob Klebba Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4 Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu "Feed the soil, not the plant" From jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org Wed Sep 22 21:48:36 EDT 1993 Article: 22861 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: [ DAMPING OFF aka DAM From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Distribution: world Message-ID: <36.1303.2552.0N41BD5D@gcbb.granite.mn.org> References: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 12:28:00 +0600 Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis Lines: 86 Allyn@U.Washington.Edu to All - Tuesday, September 21st: Discussing: Re: [ DAMPING OFF aka DAM A>> To prevent fusarium, add up to 30% fully cured compost to the soil >> mixture. Guaranteed, no fusarium or damping off. Allyn Weaks asked A>OK, so how do tell fully cured compost from immature compost? I bought 40 >cubic feet of 'composted forest products with composted manure' last week >to dig into some of my bare dirt patches. (Be a long time before I can >generate useful amounts of my own compost). Is it likely to be fully cured >enough to use for house plants or seed flats as is? What should I look >for? Determining compost maturity is a difficult task, and is the subject of widespread debate in the composting industry. There are several analytical methods, none of which are practical for the average householder. Before sharing some at home tests, some idea of what the technical answers are might be helpful. The original compost maturity test is a volatile solids reduction test. The primary material is dried and weighed, then analyzed for total solids and the corresponding inert and organic (volatile) fraction via heat at 500F until no more weight is lost. After composting, the same matter is dried, weighed, heated at 500F until ash, and reweighed. The volatile solids reduction VSR (also called the ignition loss test) is measured by the increase in inert solids. 20% volatile solids reduction is considered "stable". 40% is considered "cured". This test did not prove to be as accurate as originally estimated largely because the original feedstocks are so variable and the resulting material may still be highly volatile even at 40% VSR. This test also requires accurate sampling of original and finished material, which can be difficult. Subsequently the oxygen respiration test was developed. This methodology involves a biological chamber that determines the O2 uptake rate based on biological activity, rather than chemical or heat combustion. Once the O2 demand rate drops to known standards under controlled conditions, the compost is once again determined to be stable or cured. Neither of these two tests were accurate as to whether or not the compost was actually cured enough to grow plants, and the germination tests were established. These involve temperamental seedlings such as watercress or radishes planted in either pure compost or controlled mixes. The rate of germination is an indicator of maturity. The fewer seeds sprouting, like under 90%, the compost is variously immature, even to the point of no germination. This test can be conducted at home. Try planting in 30% and 100% compost with the rest of the media being very stable like sphagnum, vermiculite or sand. Another test is the earthworm contact test, which is again difficult for the householder. It involves adding the control soil to a petri dish with a lab certified bedding material with five redworms of the species eisenia foetida and keeping the worms at a controlled temperature. If the worms die, the compost is highly unstable. Much beyond this, the test is not accurate as raw compost is worm food and the worms will acclimatize in a few days and thrive. The fusarium suppression test involves adding controlled quantities of the fungus and then seeing how much is suppressed in the soil. A fully cured compost has natural antibiotics that suppress fusarium. Less mature compost has less suppression properties. There are several home tests for compost maturity. One requires at least 18 cubic feet of compost. The pile containerized to hold mass and moistened to 50% and if it heats up, it is not yet cured for potting soil standards. You can also moisten up to 75% moisture, almost muddy, and put it in a sealed plastic bag and let it sit for three to five days. If it smells anaerobic, foul, or sulfurous, it is not fully cured. Stable compost can screen at 3/4" easily. Mature compost can screen at 1/2". fully cured compost, potting soil grade, can screen at 1/4' inch. These screenings should be at 40% moisture. That just about completes the short course on compost stability. Jim Mr Compost~~~ McNelly Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org --- * September 21st - Paradigms: Shift Happens From jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org Wed Sep 22 21:49:08 EDT 1993 Article: 22849 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: [ DAMPING OFF aka DAM From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Distribution: world Message-ID: <36.1297.2552.0N41BD3F@gcbb.granite.mn.org> References: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 01:09:00 +0600 Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis Lines: 20 Yoko@Research.Nj.Nec.Com to All - Tuesday, September 21st: Discussing: Re: [ DAMPING OFF aka DAM >> Can anyone offer any advice on the prevention of DAMPING OFF? In my previous reply, I noticed a typo. It should have read: The fusarium suppression test is now being used as a means of determining compost maturity. The note previously read "not" instead of "now". Jim Mr Compost~~~ McNelly Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org --- * September 21st - Never let morality stop you from doing what is right From johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us Wed Sep 22 21:51:49 EDT 1993 Article: 22856 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!wndrsvr!johnm From: johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (johnm) Subject: Enhanced Seed Germination Message-ID: Sender: johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (John Marzolino) Organization: WNDRSVR - Public Access for Southern California +1-310-370-3069 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 16:16:47 GMT Lines: 13 Years ago I read of soaking seeds in tea to enhance germination. I have done this a lot for grass seed and vegetable seeds. At the time I was not into controlled experiments but it seemed to work well. I am not sure what chemicals are in tea, but I would pass this along for what it's worth. BTW one advantage of this is that tea is safe and easy to come by. John Marzolino Compuserve 71242,1610 Internet Johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.usa [*> Management may or may not agree with the above message. [*> WndrSvr in Southern California; Call +1-310-370-3069 From jbuffer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Wed Sep 22 21:52:22 EDT 1993 Article: 22905 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jbuffer From: jbuffer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James J Buffer) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Books on stem cuttings and propagation ? Date: 22 Sep 1993 17:27:41 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 8 Message-ID: <27q1ud$lpo@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article Leath@cs.upei.ca (Stephen James Leath ) writes: >Does anyone know of a good reference book on propagation by stem cuttings ? >When to collect cuttings for different plants, shrubs and trees and what sort >of medium ,temp, hormone etc.. > Crockett's Flower Garden gives this info. From bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca Wed Sep 22 21:52:38 EDT 1993 Article: 22907 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!utcsri!utnut!utgpu!bae From: bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Books on stem cuttings and propagation ? Message-ID: Date: 22 Sep 93 17:42:01 GMT References: Organization: UTCC Public Access Lines: 29 In article , Stephen James Leath wrote: >Does anyone know of a good reference book on propagation by stem cuttings ? >When to collect cuttings for different plants, shrubs and trees and what sort >of medium ,temp, hormone etc.. One of the most complete references is Plant propagation : principles and practices / Hudson T. Hartmann, Dale E. Kester, Fred T. Davies, Jr. 5th ed. Prentice Hall, c1990 This is a big, expensive textbook that may be available in university libraries. It is technical, and oriented toward commercial production. Another book that may well be in your public library is 'Plants-a-Plenty' by Catherine Osgoode Foster. (Rodale Press, I think.) It is oriented more toward the small scale or home hobbyist, but has a remarkable amount of info on various plants in it. There is also a standard reference called something like 'Manual of Woody Plants' or something similar, I haven't seen it personally, but it is said to be what professional horticulturalists use. There are many other books on propagation. Before you buy one, have a look through what is available in your public and/or university library. You may well find a book that meets your needs better than the above. Beverly Erlebacher Toronto, Ontario Canada From rolfn@microsoft.com Wed Sep 22 21:53:46 EDT 1993 Article: 22903 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!wingnut!rolfn From: rolfn@microsoft.com (Rolf Nelson) Subject: Food-crops in the PNW Message-ID: <1993Sep21.220229.8257@microsoft.com> Date: 21 Sep 93 22:02:29 GMT Organization: Microsoft Corp. Distribution: usa Lines: 53 I just recently bought a house on the zone 4-5 border in Redmond, WA, and after a substancial amount of swinging a machete and pitchfork, and digging around with a mattock, I now have about 2000 square feet cleared (for now) of many years-worth of blackberry brush and morning-glory vines. I'd like to put in a fairly significant garden, with a primary aim of growing food-type crops: veggies, grains, fruits, herbs, possibly even year-round crops, etc. The soil seems pretty good, and my neighbor (who has 3 horses) is able to provide a sizable quantity of basic fertilizer in the form of "horse-apples" w/wood-shavings (currently in a 4' tall, well-watered pile composting in the corner of where it will all be getting put in) and I'm planning on making a Zoo-Doo run in the spring, then rototill it all in in the spring, giving about 12-16 inches of loose soil on top. The plot that I'm planning on using is about 30x50 feet, sloped slightly, and with a fairly sunny day-time exposure, and is in (as near as I can tell) the zone 4-5 border of the Pacific NW (according to the Sunset Western Gardening book). What I'm looking for is advice/comments on the following: 1)Aside from all the "normal" food crops such as corn, zuks, potatos, tomatos, etc, what are good things to grow in this area? I'm looking at experimenting with just about anything that'll grow in this area WRT veggies, grains (barly, wheat, flax, oats, etc), melons, gourds, squash, fruit, and so-forth and so on. 2) What are some good (preferably perennial) herbs for this area? 3) What are some good ideas to speed the composting of horse-sourced fertilizer? Are there any specific composting accelerators that would be recomended for this particular type of compost (to which I'm adding kitchen veggie scraps and grass-clippings)? 4) What are some good crops to avoid? 5) What are some good sources for seeds or starter clippings in this area, other than the normal referance to "tak to the local nursery", which I will)? 6) What would be some good/bad varietys of fruit-bearing trees or this area? 7) What is the best way to test the soil (for missing nutrients, acidity, etc)? 7) Is there anyting obvious I'm missing, or questions I *should* be asking that I'm not? Lastly) What are some good books on all of the above? (I've tried, briefly, to find a "garden" book on growing grains, but they seem rather rare.) Rolf Nelson rolfn@microsoft.com NRA/ILA/DNA/USAR/!BATF/BoR/Honor, freedom, and self-reliance. From snoopy@crchh777.BNR.CA. Wed Sep 22 21:54:54 EDT 1993 Article: 22896 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!crchh327.bnr.ca!snoopy From: snoopy@bnr.ca (Antonio Tello) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: exotic potatoes? Date: 22 Sep 1993 08:08:08 -0500 Organization: Bell Northern Research, Richardson (Near Dallas) Tx, USA. Lines: 28 Distribution: world Message-ID: <27pinp$7ld@crchh777.bnr.ca> References: <27o65p$esu@garuda.csulb.edu> Reply-To: snoopy@crchh777.BNR.CA. NNTP-Posting-Host: crchh777.bnr.ca In article <27o65p$esu@garuda.csulb.edu>, cgalt@beach.csulb.edu (Charles Galt) writes: |> |> A colleague here wonders where/how to get starts of "exotic" potatoes. He |> mentions, for example, purple potatoes from Peru, where there are |> apparently dozens of kinds. Anyone have such knowledge? My system is going |> down and leaving weird msgs on screen, hope this msg gets out... |> thanks! |> chuck |> Well potatoes are native to south america and were imported to europe so a great many potatoe variants exist there. (Irish potatoe famine was due to the fact that a single genetic strain was being grown nation wide and was victim to opotunistic disease) (kind of like the way the american corn crop is essentially a single genetic strain nation wide and we use LOTS of pesticides to avoid a similar experiance - but that is another thread). Good luck on finding seed -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- These thoughts are mine alone and not supported by my company, friends or relatives. Please consult your parent, guardian, lawyer and local law enforcement ageny prior to following any advice contained above. NOTE: I am on a Canadian node and need distribution of NA to see your replies. E-mail to snoopy@crchh777.BNR.CA. From snoopy@crchh777.BNR.CA. Wed Sep 22 21:55:11 EDT 1993 Article: 22897 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!TAMUTS.TAMU.EDU!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!crchh327.bnr.ca!snoopy From: snoopy@bnr.ca (Antonio Tello) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: exotic potatoes? Date: 22 Sep 1993 08:16:59 -0500 Organization: Bell Northern Research, Richardson (Near Dallas) Tx, USA. Lines: 38 Distribution: world Message-ID: <27pj8b$7lp@crchh777.bnr.ca> References: <27o65p$esu@garuda.csulb.edu> <27pinp$7ld@crchh777.bnr.ca> Reply-To: snoopy@crchh777.BNR.CA. NNTP-Posting-Host: crchh777.bnr.ca In article <27pinp$7ld@crchh777.bnr.ca>, snoopy@bnr.ca (Antonio Tello) writes: |> |> In article <27o65p$esu@garuda.csulb.edu>, cgalt@beach.csulb.edu (Charles Galt) writes: |> |> |> |> A colleague here wonders where/how to get starts of "exotic" potatoes. He |> |> mentions, for example, purple potatoes from Peru, where there are |> |> apparently dozens of kinds. Anyone have such knowledge? My system is going |> |> down and leaving weird msgs on screen, hope this msg gets out... |> |> thanks! |> |> chuck |> |> |> |> Well potatoes are native to south america and were imported to europe |> so a great many potatoe variants exist there. (Irish potatoe famine ^^^^^ south america. |> was due to the fact that a single genetic strain was being grown nation |> wide and was victim to opotunistic disease) (kind of like the way the opportunistic (I hate my embarassing typos) |> american corn crop is essentially a single genetic strain nation wide |> and we use LOTS of pesticides to avoid a similar experiance - but that |> is another thread). |> |> Good luck on finding seed |> -- One day I will learn to proof read. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- These thoughts are mine alone and not supported by my company, friends or relatives. Please consult your parent, guardian, lawyer and local law enforcement ageny prior to following any advice contained above. NOTE: I am on a Canadian node and need distribution of NA to see your replies. E-mail to snoopy@crchh777.BNR.CA. From klier@cobra.uni.edu Wed Sep 22 21:55:48 EDT 1993 Article: 22899 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Apple tree care Message-ID: <1993Sep22.093117.16961@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 22 Sep 93 09:31:17 -0500 References: <27pdir$7d8@transfer.stratus.com> Distribution: world Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 23 In article <27pdir$7d8@transfer.stratus.com>, ptanner@crow.eng.stratus.com (Philip Tanner) writes: > I planted a golden delicious apple tree in our yard about > 5 years ago, and the tree has matured nicely. Both this year and last > I got blossoms in the spring and fruit later in the summer. The only > problem is the fruit isn't good enough to eat. > What I've found is pieces which look like it's rotted, or been > attacked by insects. Also, the fruit looks deformed with bumps and > dimples. > What should I be doing to correct this for next years fruit? You've got a choice to make here. You can spend next spring and summer spraying all sorts of nasties on your crop to make it look like the perfect apples in the grocery stores, or you can learn to sort the apples, do some trimming, and eat 'em anyhow. Or you can replace the current tree with a disease resistant cultivar, like MacFree... Having grown up with backyard apple trees that produced the world's worst-looking, best-tasting apples with no sprays, I vote for the paring knife... Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!koriel!decwrl!decwrl!csus.edu!wupost!udel!news!dg-rtp!rsagate!jony Sat Sep 25 12:13:24 EDT 1993 Article: 208 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!koriel!decwrl!decwrl!csus.edu!wupost!udel!news!dg-rtp!rsagate!jony From: jony@rsainc.com (Jon Yusko) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Shade Grass? Message-ID: <748902916.58snx@rsainc.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 20:35:16 GMT Organization: R. Scott Associates Lines: 14 I am interested in planting a grass that is hardy in a shady area, but do not know about which brands or varieties would be best. The area is not completely sun-free, but is limited on the amount of daylight that it receives. I have planted grass there before, but it seems to die off and not get a firm root system development. I would appreciate any advise on growing, brands, varieties and preparation used in getting decent growth in this part of my yard. TIA. Regards, Jon Yusko (jony@rsainc.com) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!news.duke.edu!mc.duke.edu!brg Mon Sep 27 05:55:55 EDT 1993 Article: 209 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!duke!news.duke.edu!mc.duke.edu!brg From: brg@mc.duke.edu (Bennett R. Groshong) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Durham area sources for trees Keywords: durham, trees, landscaping Message-ID: <20957@news.duke.edu> Date: 26 Sep 93 20:51:20 GMT Sender: news@news.duke.edu Distribution: triangle Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: pluto.mc.duke.edu I would like to find a good source of trees around Durham. I'm interested in shade, specimen, and flowering trees in the 1 to 3 inch caliper range. I'm also interested in sources for shrubs. Thanks in advance. Email me, -- Bennett Groshong (internet: brg@pluto.mc.duke.edu W: 919-684-3739) From samba.oit.unc.edu!jfm Mon Sep 27 12:32:25 EDT 1993 Article: 210 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!jfm From: jfm@med.unc.edu (John F. Miller) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Re: Shade Grass? Date: 27 Sep 1993 12:59:18 GMT Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine Lines: 19 Message-ID: <286o36$s3f@samba.oit.unc.edu> References: <748902916.58snx@rsainc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hasty.med.unc.edu In article <748902916.58snx@rsainc.com> jony@rsainc.com (Jon Yusko) writes: >I am interested in planting a grass that is hardy in a shady area, but do not >know about which brands or varieties would be best. The area is not >completely sun-free, but is limited on the amount of daylight that it >receives. I have planted grass there before, but it seems to die off >and not get a firm root system development. I would appreciate any >advise on growing, brands, varieties and preparation used in getting >decent growth in this part of my yard. TIA. You would be off to forget about growing grass in dense shade and use a groundcover instead -- something like periwinkle, ajuga, ivy, liriope, etc. It will grow well, require no mowing, and look much more interesting than grass. -- John Miller (john_miller@unc.edu) Department of Pharmacology, UNC-CH School of Medicine 1026A FLOB (231H) CB#7365, Chapel Hill, NC 27599 Tel: (919) 966-6966 From samba.oit.unc.edu!jfm Mon Sep 27 12:32:26 EDT 1993 Article: 211 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!jfm From: jfm@med.unc.edu (John F. Miller) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: Re: Shade Grass? Date: 27 Sep 1993 13:00:59 GMT Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine Lines: 19 Message-ID: <286o6b$s3r@samba.oit.unc.edu> References: <748902916.58snx@rsainc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hasty.med.unc.edu In article <748902916.58snx@rsainc.com> jony@rsainc.com (Jon Yusko) writes: >I am interested in planting a grass that is hardy in a shady area, but do not >know about which brands or varieties would be best. The area is not >completely sun-free, but is limited on the amount of daylight that it >receives. I have planted grass there before, but it seems to die off >and not get a firm root system development. I would appreciate any >advise on growing, brands, varieties and preparation used in getting >decent growth in this part of my yard. TIA. You would be better off to forget about growing grass in dense shade and use a ground cover instead -- something like periwinkle, ajuga, ivy, liriope, etc. It will grow well, require no mowing, and look much more interesting than grass. -- John Miller (john_miller@unc.edu) Department of Pharmacology, UNC-CH School of Medicine 1026A FLOB (231H) CB#7365, Chapel Hill, NC 27599 Tel: (919) 966-6966 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasrer Mon Sep 27 12:32:27 EDT 1993 Article: 212 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasrer From: sasrer@unx.sas.com (Rodney Radford) Subject: Re: Shade Grass? Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 14:07:41 GMT References: <748902916.58snx@rsainc.com> <286o6b$s3r@samba.oit.unc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cinnamon.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 37 jfm@med.unc.edu (John F. Miller) writes: >In article <748902916.58snx@rsainc.com> jony@rsainc.com (Jon Yusko) writes: >>I am interested in planting a grass that is hardy in a shady area, but do not >>know about which brands or varieties would be best. The area is not >>completely sun-free, but is limited on the amount of daylight that it >>receives. I have planted grass there before, but it seems to die off >>and not get a firm root system development. I would appreciate any >>advise on growing, brands, varieties and preparation used in getting >>decent growth in this part of my yard. TIA. >You would be better off to forget about growing grass in dense shade and >use a ground cover instead -- something like periwinkle, ajuga, ivy, liriope, >etc. It will grow well, require no mowing, and look much more interesting >than grass. However, as the original poster stated that the area is not completely sun-free, but that it's sunlight is 'limited'. If this is, indeed, the case, then you can grow grass in the area (as my backyard only gets filtered sunlight through the trees). However, if it really is dense shade, then Miller is correct about ths use of a ground cover. I seeded my yard with a mixture (1/3 by volume) of K-31 Fescue, Creeping Red Fescue (very shade tolerant), and Finelawn - this mixture was recommended by the Wake County Agricultural Extension Agency about 3 years ago when I first seeded my yard. The use of a mixture - not just one type of grass - makes it more resistant to various lawn diseases as typically a disease will only attack one of the three grasses. I varied the amount of Creeping Red depending on the amount of shade - putting more in the areas that are almost always in the shade. I just seeded the backyard this spring, and so far it is looking good.... -- --- Rodney Radford || Computer Graphics/Imaging sasrer@unx.sas.com || SAS Institute, Inc. (919) 677-8000 x7703 || Cary, NC 27513 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmmp Mon Sep 27 21:46:22 EDT 1993 Article: 213 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!sasmmp From: sasmmp@termite.unx.sas.com (Meg Pounds) Subject: Tree maintenance recommendations? Originator: sasmmp@termite.unx.sas.com Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 20:20:14 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: termite.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 8 We've got a very large sugar maple ,a large oak and 2 smaller maples that need trimming and limbing up. Can anyone recommend a good tree maintenance company? Thanks Meg -- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!koriel!decwrl!decwrl!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!NewsWatcher!user Thu Sep 30 22:32:20 EDT 1993 Article: 214 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!koriel!decwrl!decwrl!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!nrtpa038!brtph560!NewsWatcher!user From: cmrsm@nt.com (Richard McKenzie ) Subject: Hot Peppers and Bells Message-ID: Followup-To: triangle.gardens Sender: news@brtph560.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Organization: Northern Telecom in NC, Y'all Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 15:10:02 GMT Lines: 7 Please help me prepare for next season!! I have had fair luck growing Habaneros, Thais and Anchos. However, I failed miserably at Yellow and Red Bells...no fruit. Anybody out there have any fertilization/watering/sunning, etc. advice ? One stipulation, though, I have no yard, I must grow these things in tray pots. Also, please advise on soil type. Gracias. From samba.oit.unc.edu!not-for-mail Wed Oct 6 22:05:38 EDT 1993 Article: 215 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!not-for-mail From: Dan.Schechter@launchpad.unc.edu (Dan Schechter) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Subject: 100 lbs of Lime --FREE-- Date: 6 Oct 1993 15:11:41 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service Lines: 19 Distribution: triangle Message-ID: <28un7d$tm@samba.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu We have a 100 lb container of Fischer lab-grade CaO (lime) that we have no use for. It is available free to anyone who will cart it away. It is in a leaky container, so you would need something to put it in (a heavy-duty garbage bag at a minimum) and a cart or dolly (we can scrounge around for one here, but no guarantees) Send email to 30DSCHECHTER@sphvax.sph.unc.edu or call Dan at 962-4270 Dan Schechter Dept of Environmental Sciences and Engineering UNC - Chapel Hill -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 From reilley@studio.enet.dec.com Thu Oct 7 22:39:10 EDT 1993 Article: 22974 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!e2big.mko.dec.com!peavax.mlo.dec.com!studio.enet.dec.com!reilley From: reilley@studio.enet.dec.com (Tom Reilley) Subject: re: Heirloom apples. Message-ID: <1993Sep24.135953.8528@peavax.mlo.dec.com> Sender: usenet@peavax.mlo.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 14:55:15 GMT Lines: 15 To the person from the northwest who posted 2-3 weeks ago looking for heirloom apples in the Washington-Oregon area (sorry, I didn't save the original posting with all the pertinent details), you might try contacting Bear Creek Nursery, P.O.Box 411, Northport, WA 99157. They have a good selection of about 80 heriloom varieties sold on M9-M111 rootstocks for a semi-dwarf tree. Ob_disclaimer - I have no interest or connection in Bear Creek except I plan to order some trees this year. Tom Reilley Digital Equipment Corp. reilley@studio.enet.dec.com Marlboro, MA 01752-3011 USA From ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca Thu Oct 7 22:42:39 EDT 1993 Article: 23001 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ae684 From: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Subject: Garden Keyword Searching Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Reply-To: ae684@Freenet.carleton.ca (John Foulds) Organization: The National Capital Freenet Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1993 00:41:22 GMT Lines: 36 Perhaps someone out there knows more about this facility and can elucidate it further: In one of my gopher travels I came across an interesting method of searching the rec.gardens newsgroup by a keyword. If you are hunting for information on a particular gardening topic it may come in handy. If involves WAIS based onformation. If your gopher can't can't access directly, then go through the Ottawa Freenet. Once logged in: go gopher 6 Gopher Electronic Library 3 Other Gophers 12 WAIS based information 3 Search by Letter (Alphabetic) 19 R (the letter "R") 6 rec.gardens You are then prompted with a standard gopher screen asking you for a keyword. You type in your query, ie. tomato, and it returns with a list of responses. These responses are messages in the rec.gardens newsgroup containing your keyword. I'm still discovering more about it, but know the following: - the messages in the database go back to at least March '93 - you can use anything as a keyword - ie. a name of a person, as the query searches the whole record including the from/to/subject/date fields of the record as well. The facility seems good for locating specific information or people. Hope it's usefull someday, John -- From allyn@u.washington.edu Thu Oct 7 22:49:48 EDT 1993 Article: 23117 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!psaltery.chem.washington.edu!user From: allyn@u.washington.edu (Allyn Weaks) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: "Strange" food plants wanted Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 20:32:07 -0800 Organization: University of Washington Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <1993Sep28.172104.17295@cobra.uni.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: psaltery.chem.washington.edu In article <1993Sep28.172104.17295@cobra.uni.edu>, klier@cobra.uni.edu wrote: > I just got the OK to teach an economic botany course!!! Hooray!!!... > oops... > Now I'd like to locate a few sources for "interesting edibles" for > taste tests, etc... I, of course, didn't raise anything spectacular > this year between the floods and moving... :-( Check out rec.food.historic - two articles about Andean pop-beans and Afganistan pop-chick peas. Don't think they'll grow easily in Iowa though... Their claim to fame is that they can be cooked and made soft at very high altitudes easily without boiling (which is a waste of time and fuel that high up). If you have trouble getting the articles, let me know and I'll forward them to you. -- Allyn Weaks allyn@u.washington.edu From humesdg1@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu Thu Oct 7 22:50:28 EDT 1993 Article: 23118 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!aplcen.apl.jhu.edu!bix-slip21.jhuapl.edu!humesdg1 From: humesdg1@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (Dave Humes) Subject: Beneficial Nematodes Message-ID: Keywords: nematodes Lines: 17 Sender: news@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: aplcomm Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 03:47:41 GMT Lines: 17 Greetings All, Thanks for all of your responses to my post about finding a source for beneficial nematodes. Everyone recommended the same source, Gardens Alive. I found another mail order supplier which receives it's product from the same company that supplies Ortho. Here's the details: Bozeman Biotech 20 Million $16 (800) 289-6656 100 Million $23 250 Million $50 1 Billion+ $195 All prices include shipping and MasterCard and VISA are accepted. And now lets go kill some grubs! --Dave Humes >>> humesdg1@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu <<< From br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Thu Oct 7 22:52:00 EDT 1993 Article: 23189 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: WANTED: book UNDEREXPLOITED TROPICAL PLANTS... Date: 2 Oct 1993 05:37:56 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 21 Message-ID: <28j43k$m3p@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu I will pay $15.00 for a copy of the book UNDEREXPLOITED TROPICAL PLANTS OF POTENTIAL ECONOMIC VALUE. If anyone has a copy of this book or knows where I can get one, please e-mail me at <> It is out of print and the GPO doesn't plan to issue a new edition. I am also desperate to buy a copy of LOST CROPS OF THE INCAS and will pay original price ($24.95) for it in very good to excellent condition. J. Del Col -- Jeff Del Col * DECONSTRUCTIONISM- Word salad soused in French A-B College * dressing. Philippi, WV * * --THE NEW DEVIL'S DICTIONARY-- From dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org Thu Oct 7 22:52:45 EDT 1993 Article: 23212 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!dorsai.dorsai.org!dorsai.dorsai.org!not-for-mail From: dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org (David Gurzynski) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: "Strange" food plants Date: 3 Oct 1993 11:16:04 -0400 Organization: The Dorsai Embassy Lines: 26 Message-ID: <28mqbk$l81@dorsai.dorsai.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: dorsai.dorsai.org JO|raffi@watnxt08.ucr.edu writes: JO|> Try Armenian Cucumber (a few feet long and "no" skin) JO|> Yellow pear tomato JO|> other suggestions? JO|> n_w$$h JO|What about edible weeds ie the dadelion my grandmother sworn they were JO|good. She used to ask people if she could pick them out of their yards. JO|Of course this being Ca. many said no?? JO|John@wndrsvr.la.ca.us In my community garden one of the rather new Greek immigrants was growing some vegetables that were mailed to him by his father in Greece. The plants seemed to grow well and had red stems. I believe that the plants were harvested by cutting the stems periodically and then boiling or steaming them till tender. Has anyone come across this plant before? * SLMR 2.1a * Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek. -- - "Nemesis, come! And you unfeeling stars, I hurl - David Gurzynski - defiance for reply, and cast into the ballance - Brooklyn NY - for the world to see, my soul 'gainst thy - Dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org - insensate cruelty. - !! Praise "BoB" !! From dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org Thu Oct 7 22:53:13 EDT 1993 Article: 23213 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!dorsai.dorsai.org!dorsai.dorsai.org!not-for-mail From: dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org (David Gurzynski) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: "Strange" food plants Date: 3 Oct 1993 11:16:10 -0400 Organization: The Dorsai Embassy Lines: 29 Message-ID: <28mqbq$l86@dorsai.dorsai.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: dorsai.dorsai.org JO|What about edible weeds ie the dadelion my grandmother sworn they were JO|good. She used to ask people if she could pick them out of their yards. JO|Of course this being Ca. many said no?? JO|John@wndrsvr.la.ca.us There is a fellow down here called "Wildman" Steve Brill who has tours of the city parks (of which there are more of than you might think!) where he points out edible plants, and mushrooms, and talks about the environment and such. He points out that people should ONLY pick what he shows to them and NEVER pick all of it, and if they come across anything such as mushrooms they should always show them to him before taking them. He asks for a $10.00 donation per person and for a 3 hour or so walk I found it to be good entertainment/education value. I don't know wether he has any books in print other than the ones he sells himself. * SLMR 2.1a * Do Televangelists do more than lay people? -- - "Nemesis, come! And you unfeeling stars, I hurl - David Gurzynski - defiance for reply, and cast into the ballance - Brooklyn NY - for the world to see, my soul 'gainst thy - Dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org - insensate cruelty. - !! Praise "BoB" !! From psmith@alfred.carleton.ca Thu Oct 7 22:53:55 EDT 1993 Article: 23279 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!psmith From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) Subject: American Gourd Society Message-ID: Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 13:25:19 GMT Lines: 7 Between all the recent gourd questions and an individual request, I dug out the address for the American Gourd Society. You can join for a few $ per year. Box 274 Mt. Gilead, OH 43338 From ajeans@hpl.hp.com Thu Oct 7 22:54:30 EDT 1993 Article: 23298 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hplextra!hplntx!ajeans From: ajeans@hpl.hp.com (Albert Jeans) Subject: Rock Dust Fertilizer Sender: news@hplntx.hpl.hp.com (HPL News Posting Service) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 14:20:32 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: hplred.hpl.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.1] Lines: 5 I just saw a program on PBS about the greenhouse effect and ice ages, and one of the key ideas was that powdered rock provides essential nutrients for plants. They showed many cases of plants grown with and without this rock dust and the rock dust plants were dramatically more healthy. Has anyone had any experience with using powdered rock as fertilizer? From dbailey@sr.hp.com Thu Oct 7 22:55:39 EDT 1993 Article: 23313 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!srgenprp!dbailey From: dbailey@sr.hp.com (Dave Bailey) Subject: Re: Rock Dust Fertilizer Sender: news@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (News Administrator) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 15:10:46 GMT References: Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4] Lines: 19 Albert Jeans (ajeans@hpl.hp.com) wrote: : I just saw a program on PBS about the greenhouse effect and ice ages, and one : of the key ideas was that powdered rock provides essential nutrients for : plants. They showed many cases of plants grown with and without this rock : dust and the rock dust plants were dramatically more healthy. Has anyone : had any experience with using powdered rock as fertilizer? Did they say how powdered rock becomes ions. A plant can not absorb elements unless they have a charge. +----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+ | ___ | David Bailey | | / / | Lightwave Operation | | HEWLETT/hp/PACKARD | 1412 Fountaingrove Parkway | | /__/ | Santa Rosa, Ca. 95403-1799 | | Lightwave | Internet: dbailey@sr.hp.com | | Operation | Tel : (707) 577-3370 | +----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+ ---------- From f_griffith@ccsvax.sfasu.edu Thu Oct 7 22:57:37 EDT 1993 Article: 23294 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!ccsvax.sfasu.edu!f_griffith From: f_griffith@ccsvax.sfasu.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: self-sufficiency Message-ID: <1993Oct5.140221.7390@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> Date: 5 Oct 93 14:02:21 CST Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University Lines: 19 The September issue of _The McAlvaney Intelligence Advisor_ has a long section on "Greater Self-Sufficiency for Troubled Times". It includes thought provoking discussion and lots of practical suggestions. To get a copy of this section send a long, self-addressed envelope with 52 cents postage to: III Box 4630 SFA Sta. Nacogdoches, TX 75962 Please tell on what group you saw this notice. Permission granted to repost this notice through 12/31/93. From karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil Thu Oct 7 23:01:29 EDT 1993 Article: 23295 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!ra!shiva4175.nrl.navy.mil!user From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen) Subject: Re: Ideas for organic pesticides ? Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.gardens Sender: usenet@ra.nrl.navy.mil Organization: Naval Research Lab References: <1993Oct4.065259.5610@schbbs.mot.com> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 19:16:40 GMT Lines: 29 In article <1993Oct4.065259.5610@schbbs.mot.com>, RMNL69@paccvm.corp.mot.com (Les Aquino) wrote: > > Hi. Does anybody have a good formula/mixture for an organic > pesticide (ground hot peppers etc) that will repel insects and > the like on gourd plants growing on trellises ? > Also, I've heard that Neem tree leaves are good for this purpose > - but how do you prepare these ? > > Thanx - LES Which bugs do you mean? There are several that could attack gourds, including cucumber beetles and aphids; row covers will keep off the beetles, while various forms of insecticidal soaps or garlic/hot pepper sprays will deter aphids. Dont discount ladybugs, either; i had a mess of aphids on my asparagus foliage a month ago, & much to my delight a ton of ladybugs descended on them and laid lots of eggs, which ended up as zillions of cute aphid-devouring larvae (look like mini Gila monsters). I've never seen anything like it --- a regular ladybug farm, for free, in my own backyard! Bio Neem is a commercial neem extract, available in many stores & through mail order. However, it isnt approved for use on food crops (yet?). Anyone courageous enough to try it anyway? Judy Karpen "pushing back the frontiers of science...." karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil Code 7675K, NRL, Washington DC 20375-5352 From bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Sat Oct 9 10:54:22 EDT 1993 Article: 23407 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bj368 From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: dry wall as soil amendment Date: 9 Oct 1993 06:00:27 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 13 Message-ID: <295k27$c5u@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu Harvey Fischman mentions that drywall is also called "gypsum board". I personally have seen it labelled as gyproc. The point is that =agricultural gypsum= is just powdered gypsum. On the other hand, various companies may or may not put significant chemicals or material strengtheners to create the solid drywall as well as the special paper backing, all of which must be safe chemically to use for edible gardening, perhaps not as important if one were to grow hedges, nonfruit trees and the like. Mike Romano From nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com Fri Oct 15 21:18:39 EDT 1993 Article: 23490 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!daneel!seldon.foundation.tricon.com!nathan From: nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com (Nathan D. Lane) Subject: Tropical Fruits/Zone 9/Greenhouse/small area Message-ID: <1993Oct12.033617.24924@daneel.foundation.tricon.com> MessageID: <1993Oct11.201512@seldon.foundation.tricon.com> Organization: Triicon Systems, Inc. Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 03:36:17 GMT Lines: 56 Sorry for the strange subject line I wanted to get everything in. My basic question is that I would like to grow tropical fruits in my front porch area under a greenhouse with lights. I have a single 5'x8' area on one side and a single 3.5'x12' area on the other side (the walkway to my front door is in between). In the same area (in the future, after the greenhouse, but present now) is a hottub/spa. I am planning on putting a greenhouse "like" area up over the space I have an removing the camelias I've there now (from the previous owner). MOre details: I have a book about subtropical fruits, like bananas (one I would like to grow), persimmon (definitely), papayas (definitely) and a few others. All of them show my area as a "go". I don't think so, however. The only subtropical I know that is done in large quantities around here is the Sapote (and, of course, Citrus in great abundance). I talked to my local nurseryman[person] and she said that we get a hard freeze every year. So much for bananas, etc outside, thus the greenhouse idea. The point is: we get a lot of fog. We get it a couple of hours later and it burns off a couple of hours earlier than the coast, but we do get it. So far, my citrus has been doing fine (after advice from this group), except for my grapefruit (I bought a new one, much older, and it is starting to act like the first one I bought, even though it has not been transplanted yet). All citrus is outside, with no protection. I want to design a greenhouse in our front area that goes from our main house, across our front entryway, to our detached garage (and spa area). It is on the east side of the house and I want it built to code (i.e., no corrrugated fiberglass or polyethylene and it has to look good). Are there any books on greenhouse design I could access? I think the opening up the spa area area is perfect due to the humidity and a desire to keep my wife and I warm when we use it! (Good fro tropical fruits). Basically, I kind of want a "rain forest" in our front entryway! ;) (And a good place to germinate other seeds as well...I always forget to water my little "sixpacks" of seeds because they aren't in a "standard location".) Any ideas on this? I don't know if I've made myself clear or not, and I am sorry if I have not. I do know about the Rare Fruits (name?) society for my area, thanks to another poster. I have sent a letter to them, but the net is faster :) We also have no University extension, nor University for that matter. My nurseryperson didn't even know about the rarefruits people. (I know of one place that *does* grow bananas around here, but it's 60 miles away, so I haven't gone there yet. They even manage it RIGHT on the beach). Thanks for any information. One of these days I'll be able to post information and not questions. Nathan D. Lane, MIS Analyst and VP of Triicon Systems, Inc. Santa Barbara, CA (805) 9636555; email: nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com Making the Title Insurance World an Easier Place! From bmoon@eis.calstate.edu Fri Oct 15 21:18:53 EDT 1993 Article: 23530 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Tropical Fruits/Zone 9/Greenhouse/small area Message-ID: From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 20:37:50 GMT References: <1993Oct12.033617.24924@daneel.foundation.tricon.com> Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 20 For your Cooperative Extension office, look under the County listings in the phone book. It is probably listed under Agriculture. I can't picture any county in California not having an Extension office. As to the fruit, I don't think persimmons are a subtropical. Japanese persimmons grow in Sunset zones 7-9, 14-16, and 18-23. Freezing isn't much of a problem. I'd recommend looking at the Sunset Western Garden Book for answers to the kinds of questions you have. We grew bananas in El Cajon, just west of San Diego. The trees died back when it froze and it never got hot enough to ripen them. The trees were about 15 feet tall; I'd look for a dwarf banana if such a tree exists. The WGB shows papaya growing in zones 21-23; much of Santa Barbara fits in those zones. Also greenhouses are O.K.; male and females are required for fruit. Someone in the San Diego area mentioned a nursery in the Escondido area specializing in sub-tropicals. I'm sorry I don't remember the name; ypu might check the Northern San Diego county yellow pages at a library. -- Bruce Moon Rio Linda, CA From djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com Fri Oct 15 21:20:37 EDT 1993 Article: 23576 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pacbell.com!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Subject: Re: spelt Message-ID: Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T References: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 17:12:32 GMT Lines: 47 >The subject of spelt came up in rec.food.cooking. What can anyone tell >us about this hardy wheat who's presence in health food stores is challenging >our 100% reliance on agribusiness. Spelt is bread wheat with a hull. I don't know anything about its hardiness and nutritional value versus hulless bread wheat. On the subject of wheat: "Spelt", "einkorn", "emmer" and "durum" are names I have seen bandied about and never understood, until I read an article last month in Natural History magazine. Now (I think) I got it, as follows: Start with three species of wheat: 1. Triticum turdigum. (2N=28, tetraploid). This is the anscestor of our wheat. 2. T. monoccum. (2N=14, diploid). Aka "einkorn", one-seed wheat. Cultivated in the stone age only. 3. T. timopheevi (2N=28, tetrapoid). Apparently, never cultivated. So, forget 2 and 3, and let's look at 1, T. turgidum. WILD T. TURGIDUM: In the wild it was hulled, meaning it had a little husk around each seed. This is the "chaff" one must separate from the wheat. Also in the wild it was "brittle", also called "shattering", meaning it falls from the stalk before you can harvest it. DOMESTICATED T. TURGIDUM: Aka T. dicoccum, aka "emmer". It is still hulled, but non-shattering. Emmer is still grown in the Balkans, eastern Czechloslovakia, Iran, and Ethiopia. ANOTHER DOMESTICATED T. TURGIDUM: Aka T. durum, aka "durum wheat", aka "macaroni wheat". Still much grown. Non-shattering. (Hulled? I think the article did not say.) (Question for Kay K. or other; How can T. Turgidum ALSO be called T. dicoccum, ALSO be called T. durum? I'm cornfused. Shouldn't these be "varieties", not species? Also, what is the diff. between "emmer" and "durum"?) DOMESTICATED HYBRID WHEAT: Cross T. Turgidum with the weed, Aegilops squarrosa (2N=14, diploid), and you get T. aestivum (2N=42, hexaploid). This is our modern, high-gluten wheat. The hulled form is called "spelt", amd the hulless form is our "bread wheat". Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio, Zone 5 From bromage@mdw010.cc.monash.edu.au Fri Oct 15 21:29:00 EDT 1993 Article: 23589 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: sci.bio,sci.environment,talk.environment,bionet.general,sci.misc,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!nigel.msen.com!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!monu6!mdw010.cc.monash.edu.au!bromage From: bromage@mdw010.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr D Bromage) Subject: Straw Poll: sci.permaculture Message-ID: <1993Oct15.004720.24911@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> Sender: news@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Usenet system) Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia. Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 00:47:20 GMT Lines: 14 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu sci.bio:11117 sci.environment:29526 talk.environment:11327 bionet.general:5644 sci.misc:4601 rec.gardens:23589 Please note: This is NOT an RFD, simply testing the water. Anybody interested in a permaculture newsgroup? If so then offers of assistance in writing a formal RFD and a charter are welcome. Cheers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Bromage _--_|\ bromage@ccds.cc.monash.edu.au Department of Chemistry / \ bromage@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au Monash University, \_.--.*/ Phone: +61 3 565 4513 Clayton, Victoria, 3168 v Fax: +61 3 565 4597 Australia "I think thinking is so important" - Baldrick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jareed@rodan.syr.edu Fri Oct 15 21:30:11 EDT 1993 Article: 23592 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!rodan.syr.edu!jareed From: jareed@rodan.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed) Subject: New herb FAQ out Message-ID: <1993Oct15.081623.29382@newstand.syr.edu> Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 08:16:23 EDT Lines: 18 This is just to let folks know that there is a revised version of the Herb FAQ at sunsite.unc.edu. Ftp there, login as anonymous, cd to: pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/recgardens and get the file herb.faq.new. The new faq includes popular topics discussed on rec.gardens since about June as well as all previous information. I didn't specifically credit contributors in the FAQ, but would like to thank all the knowledgeable and interesting folks who contribute their experiences and expertise that have been included in the FAQ. In particular I want to thank Moira Carlson, Barry Carlson, and Conrad Richter, who contributed a number of items, and the person whose name I can't find who posted the extensive A-Z listing of scientific names of herbs. But, there are pieces from many more people in there, and all are interesting, entertaining and informative. Thanks to one and all, and enjoy!!! Judith Reed jareed@syr.edu From nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com Sun Oct 17 00:40:52 EDT 1993 Article: 23494 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!daneel!seldon.foundation.tricon.com!nathan From: nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com (Nathan D. Lane) Subject: Microclimate Information Message-ID: <1993Oct12.041737.25562@daneel.foundation.tricon.com> MessageID: <1993Oct11.210424@seldon.foundation.tricon.com> Organization: Triicon Systems, Inc. Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 04:17:36 GMT Lines: 29 (Really getting sick of me by now). I was wondering if microclimate information is available over the Internet or via some society. I'm afraid that we do not have a University of any kind here, nor an extension of a University and my nurseryperson's knowledge of the area is good, but not detailed. The CA coast is renowned (I think) by an incredible number of microclimates. One can grow wine grapes of very good quality just 5 (NNE) miles from here, but one cannot grow them here. The only industrial Sapote in the US is grown 20 miles from here (not inland, just kind of south east). Strawberries are grown 14 miles from here (the town claims to be the Strawberry "capitol" of CA at least). We are located about 7 miles inland from the ocean, about 350ft. elevation and about another 14 miles from where the CA west coast becomes the CA south coast. 7000ft. high mountains are a short 25 miles away (no skiing, though, not that I do anyway). Thunderstorms occur every 10 years here, but every year just 15 miles away (a recent forest fire 15 miles away created its OWN thunderstorm). Thank you for any information or servers pertaining to microclimate information. I promise I won't post anymore tonight :) Nathan D. Lane, MIS Analyst and VP of Triicon Systems, Inc. Santa Barbara, CA (805) 9636555; email: nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com Making the Title Insurance World an Easier Place! From mwolf@pattie.wellesley.edu Sun Oct 17 00:41:04 EDT 1993 Article: 23512 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!wellesley.edu!pattie.wellesley.edu!mwolf From: mwolf@pattie.wellesley.edu Subject: RE: Microclimate Information Message-ID: <12OCT93.14401512@pattie.wellesley.edu> Sender: news@olaf.wellesley.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: pattie.wellesley.edu Organization: WELLESLEY COLLEGE References: <1993Oct12.041737.25562@daneel.foundation.tricon.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 19:40:15 GMT Lines: 3 I, and many other "dirtophiles", would also be interested in sources of microclimate information. If you respond to the original message, please post your replies in this foler. From bmoon@eis.calstate.edu Sun Oct 17 00:41:14 EDT 1993 Article: 23532 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!bmoon Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Microclimate Information Message-ID: From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 20:48:14 GMT References: <12OCT93.14401512@pattie.wellesley.edu> Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services Lines: 8 Anyone in the western United States can use the Sunset Western Garden Book. The version I have has 24 zones, especially well-tuned to California. -- Bruce Moon Rio Linda, CA From ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu Sun Oct 17 00:41:47 EDT 1993 Article: 23568 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!paris.ics.uci.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!julia!ramirez From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) Subject: Exotic fruit questions Message-ID: <1993Oct14.142135.17976@math.ucla.edu> Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 14:21:35 GMT Lines: 16 I have come across a couple fruit species that I have never heard of and would appreciate anyone with information about any of the following, particularly in regard to eating quality and cultivation requirements: Azanza garckeana (snot apple) Erythrina latissima (lucky bean) Seminole Bunchosia Sapodilla Seagrape I am especially curious about the snot apple, a fruit that sounds as if it belongs in alt.tasteless. Was it nicknamed for its texture, its flavor, or what? Thanks for any info anyone can provide. From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Oct 17 00:42:09 EDT 1993 Article: 23625 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Exotic fruit questions Message-ID: <1993Oct16.132615.18074@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 16 Oct 93 13:26:15 -0500 References: <1993Oct14.142135.17976@math.ucla.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 10 In article <1993Oct14.142135.17976@math.ucla.edu>, ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) wr > > I am especially curious about the snot apple, a fruit that sounds as if > it belongs in alt.tasteless. Was it nicknamed for its texture, its flavor, or > what? Dunno, Julia. The only thing I turned up was a reference to Azanza garckeana in Tanzania. No information there, however. :-( Kay Klier From rk30+@andrew.cmu.edu Sun Oct 17 00:42:36 EDT 1993 Article: 23567 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!rk30+ From: Ruth Kline Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: "Butterfly house" -- ?? Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 10:23:56 -0400 Organization: Information Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 8 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu Do any gardeners here have any information about a butterfly house? It is some sort of artificial environment built to house butterflies in their complete life cycles -- much like a greenhouse. I have seen a large-scale version of a butterfly house (complete with pond) at Blenheim Palace in England, but I suspect there are smaller types available that the average person might be able to afford. Thanks in advance for any information. -- Ruth Kline, Carnegie Mellon University From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Oct 17 00:43:12 EDT 1993 Article: 23614 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: RE: Exotic fruit & apples Message-ID: <1993Oct15.213916.18056@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 15 Oct 93 21:39:16 -0500 References: <1993Oct15.122559.1@uncavx> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 15 In article <1993Oct15.122559.1@uncavx>, strauss@uncavx writes: > I know Sea grape well. Grows in Miami. Large leathery leaves, and the tree > grows near the sand of the beaches. Cocoloba uvifera, I think (Cocolovis?). Coccoloba uvifera. One of the strangest members of the Polygonaceae (knotweed family). > > To change the subject to apples, is anyone familiar with Grimes? A nasty > greenish-yellow color with brown spots, but one of the juciest, tart apples I > ever had. grows here in Western NC (USA). Grimes Golden? Yes, I know it. I'm not sure I'd bother with it, though... and especially not after munching my way around Seed Saver's orchard! Kay Klier From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Oct 17 00:44:21 EDT 1993 Article: 23616 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: spelt Message-ID: <1993Oct15.220736.18058@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 15 Oct 93 22:07:36 -0500 References: Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 30 In article , djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) writes: > (Question for Kay K. or other; How can T. Turgidum ALSO be called T. dicoccum, > ALSO be called T. durum? I'm cornfused. Shouldn't these be "varieties", not > species? Also, what is the diff. between "emmer" and "durum"?) Short answer: Depends on who's cutting up the taxonomic pie, and what's known about the plants at the time, and what information the taxonomist wants to emphasize. Ask two plant taxonomists a question, and you'll get a minimum of 3 answers... ;-) Cultivated plants are major taxonomic nightmares. They've been subject to human selection for various traits for so long, that they don't look or act much like the ancestral species. And many of the very large changes in appearance can be due to a single genetic change... which, when you're doing seat-of-the-pants taxonomy, can really throw you. Long answer will follow later this week. If you're interested in cultivated plants, you might want to pick up Edgar Anderson's charming little book, _Plants, Man, and Life_. Anderson was a corn geneticist (among other activities) who was also head of the Missouri Botanical Garden for awhile. Anyhow... PML was published about 1952, and has been reprinted many times since. Lots of good stories about what life for a working field taxonomist can be like, and some insights into problems of the origins of agriculture. It's a quick read... My two favorite chapters are "how to measure an avocado", which is still assigned reading in my plant systematics class, and "dumpheap agriculture". Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From f_griffith@ccsvax.sfasu.edu Sun Oct 17 00:45:45 EDT 1993 Article: 23294 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!ccsvax.sfasu.edu!f_griffith From: f_griffith@ccsvax.sfasu.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: self-sufficiency Message-ID: <1993Oct5.140221.7390@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> Date: 5 Oct 93 14:02:21 CST Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University Lines: 19 The September issue of _The McAlvaney Intelligence Advisor_ has a long section on "Greater Self-Sufficiency for Troubled Times". It includes thought provoking discussion and lots of practical suggestions. To get a copy of this section send a long, self-addressed envelope with 52 cents postage to: III Box 4630 SFA Sta. Nacogdoches, TX 75962 Please tell on what group you saw this notice. Permission granted to repost this notice through 12/31/93. From samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london Sun Oct 17 13:54:53 EDT 1993 Article: 216 of triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Newsgroups: triangle.gardens,triangle.general Subject: Sustainable Agriculture Conference at NCSU hosted by CFSA Date: 15 Oct 1993 04:30:50 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 87 Distribution: nc Message-ID: <29l91q$bov@samba.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: calypso.oit.unc.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu triangle.gardens:216 triangle.general:4193 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:25:28 EDT From: Carolina.Farm.Stewardship@calypso (cfsa.inc@launchpad.oit.unc.edu) Cc: Marjorie Bender Subject: News release for Sust Ag Conference Building Sustainable Communities Through Sustainable Agriculture RALEIGH - The 8th annual Sustainable Agriculture Conference is being held Friday, November 12 through Sunday, November 14, 1993 at the McKimmon Center at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, NC. Farmers, consumers, agriculture advocates, food processors, distributors and retailers, and government and university representatives will join forces to focus on "Building Sustainable Communities," this year's theme. The conference is a project of the Carolina Farm Stewardship Association (CFSA). For the past thirteen years, CFSA has promoted sustainable and organic agriculture through advocacy, certification, market promotion, education, and research. This annual conference is the highlight of these efforts. Public concern for water and food pesticide contamination is growing. Recent reports from the National Academy of Sciences on the measurement standards used to study the impact of pesticides on children has caused alarm. Farmers are faced with increased pressure to reduce pesticide use. Some of today's most urgent environmental and health questions involve clean water, healthy soil, and a safe and consistent food supply. Sustainable agriculture methods answer these questions directly and demonstrate not only the possibility, but also the profitability, of sustainable practices. The primary objective of this conference is to bring together people from all aspects of the agriculture industry to interact, learn and share information as we work towards creating a sustainable future together. The sponsors represent the diversity and strength of this collaborative effort: Agriculture Resources Center, Albert's Organics, Carolina Farm Stewardship Association, Clemson University, Corganics, Harmony Farms, McGill Environmental, Necessary Trading Company, North Carolina A&T University, NC Cooperative Extension Service, NC Department of Agriculture, NC State University, Rural Advancement Foundation International, South Carolina Land Resources, Conservation Commission, and Wellspring Grocery. Additionally, this conference is being held concurrently with the NC Solar Energy Association's annual conference. Friday's program will set the stage for discussing the role of sustainable agriculture in the bigger picture of developing sustainable communities. Wes Jackson of the Land Institute in Salina, Kansas, who is known within the sustainable agriculture community as a visionary leader, will be the keynote speaker. He will deliver his address, entitled "On Becoming Native to this Place," at the awards banquet Friday, November 12 at 7:30 p.m. Mike Nicklas, of the International Solar Energy Society, will also speak Friday. An afternoon panel will focus on the relationships between natural resources and how technologies for different disciplines and resources can be linked together to support sustainable agriculture and sustainable communities. A total of twelve workshops Saturday and Sunday will offer in-depth information on organic production methods, biological pest control, permaculture, farm biodiversity, rotational grazing, alternative energy, and intentional communities. Representatives from the region will discuss their experience and new developments. A tour of the North Carolina Solar Home will be held on Sunday. This conference will provide hand-on, technical and practical information about agriculture production practices which reduce the need for chemical applications. Sustainable agriculture solutions embody a systems approach that considers farmers' economic and lifestyle need. Mutual goals of consumer and production demands to provide quality, healthy food are achieved with sustainable agriculture. Alternative production methods and marketing strategies show growth potential at a time when growth is needed. Approximately 600 acres in the Carolinas are certified by the CFSA and are currently in organic crop production. This represents 29 farms, of which 27 are certified organic and two are certified transitional organic. Today, according to the Organic Crop Improvement Association (OCIA), 5% of the total farm population nationally is certified organic, and that figure is growing. Ticket are available for the 8th annual Sustainable Agriculture Conference being held Friday, November 12 through Sunday, November 14, 1993 at the McKimmon Center at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, NC. Tickets for the awards banquet only, featuring keynote speaker Wes Jackson, Friday, November 12 at 7:30 p.m., are $25.00 and are available now. After October 22, call for banquet ticket availability. Student rates are available. For registration or other information, contact Marjorie Bender at CFSA (919/968-1030). ### From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!sgi!cdp!libby Tue Oct 19 10:57:34 EDT 1993 Article: 23657 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!sgi!cdp!libby From: Libby Goldstein Newsgroups: rec.gardens Date: 17 Oct 93 11:13 PDT Subject: Permaculture Conf. On-Line Message-ID: <1453300366@cdp> Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Lines: 2 There is already a permaculture conference on line if you can access it. ipc5.permacultu. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!uuneo!sugar!claird Tue Oct 19 10:58:54 EDT 1993 Article: 23679 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: alt.agriculture.fruit,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!uuneo!sugar!claird From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) Subject: Re: Shade tolerant fruits Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 19:55:52 GMT Message-ID: References: <1993Oct17.164629.24966@news.unomaha.edu> Lines: 25 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.agriculture.fruit:64 rec.gardens:23679 In article <1993Oct17.164629.24966@news.unomaha.edu> jwoods@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jay Arthur Woods) writes: > >I looking for suggestions on shade tolerant fruit bearing plants. I have >purchased a lot with lots of trees on it and I'd like to interplant with >an understory of fruits and nuts that will be happy in light to medium >shade. This is in Omaha, Nebraska. I'm willing to irrigate but I can't >control the cold. > This comes up often in rec.gardens and misc.rural. If some altruist finally wrote an FAQ for the former, I bet it's there. In any case, you're likely to get lots of answers from rec.gardens-ers. My favorites: berries. Currants have rewarded me im- mensely in a climate similar to yours, and there are lots of native New World berries that do well in those situations. Others with which I've had good experiences: shadberries, various ground cherries ... um, I'm start- ing to get hungry. -- Cameron Laird claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net) +1 713 267 7966 claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net) +1 713 996 8546 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Wed Oct 20 01:48:14 EDT 1993 Article: 23700 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: rural land ethics From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Distribution: world Message-ID: <36.2116.2552.0N41C23F@gcbb.granite.mn.org> References: Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 04:02:00 +0600 Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis Lines: 37 Breland@Mcc.Com to All - Monday, October 18th: Discussing: Re: rural land ethics B>Mention was made in an early post about the terrible consequences of >burning leaves, with an immediate jump to the toxicity of burn barrels. >This is ridiculous! Focus should be made on letting nature run her >course, not dictating what the environment 'should' be. Naturally >occuring fires have cleared out overgrown areas and resulted in new, >rejuvenated environments for centuries before the human race came along. The data I have on the particulant levels from leaf burning is well documented. Perhaps like cigarette smoking, many people would seek to deny the negative effects of fires on lungs. In urban areas, some leaf burning is so rampant that it is nearly impossible for persons with lung problems like asthma and emphysema to go outdoors. Suburban leaf burning is not letting "nature run its course". Nature burns prairie grasses regularly, not forest floors. I have no problem with man interacting to control fire, both in fostering its natural occurrences and in preventing the destruction of private property. I suppose that as a solid waste management professional, I see the impact of barrel burning more often than most persons. The practice is worse than medieval in a supposedly civilized society. Unlike many of my environmentalist contemporaries, I see value in many refuse to energy facilities and am not opposed to well managed landfills either. But for the life of me, I can see no value in leaf burning, nor can I accept the argument that it represents "nature running its course". Jim Mr Compost~~~ McNelly Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org --- * October 19th - Galactic Wanderer From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news.gasou.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!usenet Wed Oct 20 01:49:22 EDT 1993 Article: 23701 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news.gasou.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!usenet From: John Roberts Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: bed preparation questions Date: 19 Oct 1993 19:11:06 GMT Organization: USDA-ARSEF Lines: 43 Sender: jwr4@cornell.edu (Verified) Distribution: world Message-ID: <2a1e4aINNpjp@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> References: <378.j-easl@maroon.tc.umn.edu_POPMail/PC_3.2.2> NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.253.27.136 X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7 X-XXDate: Tue, 19 Oct 93 15:17:29 GMT In article <378.j-easl@maroon.tc.umn.edu_POPMail/PC_3.2.2> Jon Easley, j-easl@maroon.tc.umn.edu writes: >I have been using "Squarefoot Gardening" as my template for my garden. >He suggests that when preparing a new bed you should add a bunch of >vermiculite, some compost and a bit of 10-10-10 fertilizer. Now I have >talked to some people at my local garden center and they say that the >vermiculite is merely for providing drainage. They further said that >compost does the same thing plus adds nutrients. The garden center is correct. Why spend money on something that you can get for "free". Compost, among other things, is a normalizer. It buffers the pH, provides moderate amounts of "balanced" nutrients that are made slowly available AND in the form that plants will utilize over a longer period of time, regulates water holding capacity, improves soil texture (tightens up sandy soils and open up tight, clayey ones), and provides food for a host of organisms which play vital roles in nutrient uptake and disease prevention. I would suggest, go ahead, use the organic stuff. However; don't apply the 10-10-10 fertilizer. Reasons: 1. when you plant the bed, the roots will not be receptive to the uptake of these nutrients. 2. the nutrients will leach down below the root zone after the first comply of waterings or rains. 3. your soil may not need the added nutrients and may through the balance of other ingredients out of whack. There is considerable research evidence which suggest that plants that are over feed are more prone to attack from insects and disease causing organisms. In essense you will be wasting you time, money, and resource. IF you insist on apply the 10-10-10, do so AFTER the plants have become established and then apply a foliar feed of the fertilizer (1/10 dilution of package directions sprayed onto the leaves and stems until the fertilizer solution begins to run off the same). The nutrients will be absorbed by the leaves and stems and incorporate them into the plants. Stay organic, if at all possible. You, your soil, and your plants will be better off. John Roberts From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jhoskins Wed Oct 20 01:50:53 EDT 1993 Article: 23704 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jhoskins From: jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: rural land ethics Date: 19 Oct 1993 20:25:29 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 32 Message-ID: <2a1ifp$blh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <1993Oct19.131800.9158@leo.vsla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article <1993Oct19.131800.9158@leo.vsla.edu> bhaile@leo.vsla.edu (Bess Haile ) writes: >Of all the arrogant ideas...to show how rural dwellers >disregard the care and stewardship of land! Well, after seeing >the filth, litter, and polution in most of the urban areas I've >been to over the last 10 years, I'll stay here in the country, >on my easment protected farm and hope we can keep the armchair >environmentalists locked up in their cities...or suburbs, as >the case may be. We just came back from my family farm in Western Illinois. The land was purchased by my great-grandfather with gold prospecting money from an extended California trip in the mid-19th century. For years the family has been hauling stuff to "the ditch": timbers, junk, rusted fence and so forth. The ditch is in a secluded, hilly area of the farm, overgrown with osage orange and other scrub species. It never grows in size, nor does the cut the ditch makes in the hillside. We spent the better part of two days tearing down the old falling-down icehouse constructed in 1914. We salvaged the siding we could for fence patching and put any rotted wood on a hay wagon for the trip to the ditch. We pulled the wagon through the fields, whereas in the past the trip was made part-way along township roads. I wondered why: my cousin told me that the EPA was "cracking down" on farm ditches. someday soon even your home vegetable garden's gonna be against the law... --Bob Dylan : From thacker@rhea.arc.ab.ca Sun Oct 24 21:24:25 EDT 1993 Article: 23673 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!janus.arc.ab.ca!rhea.arc.ab.ca!thacker Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Growing Sprouts Message-ID: <1993Oct18.094024.1@rhea.arc.ab.ca> From: thacker@rhea.arc.ab.ca Date: 18 Oct 93 09:40:24 MDT References: <299gr5$ohs@panix.com> Organization: Alberta Research Council Nntp-Posting-Host: rhea.arc.ab.ca Lines: 41 In article <299gr5$ohs@panix.com>, smiklos@panix.com (Stephen Miklos) writes: > Years ago, I grew sprouts at home in jars in a cabinet. I don't > remember all the details of how it's done, though I do remember > Any info on the process would be > appreciated, specifically on these points that I don't quite remember: I see my news server didn't pick up your article until 8 days after you posted it, so you've probably sorted this out for yourself already. However, I'll add this bit of info anyway. Here's what I've used successfully for mung beans (the standard bean sprout). In an old one litre plastic ice cream container I place beans to a depth of about 3 beans worth. Then I cover the container with a doubled up J-cloth, with a small section of the cloth pealed back to a single layer (this is where I add and drain water). Using only a single layer of cloth lets the sprouts start to dry to quickly. Fasten the cloth on with a rubber band. Then add water (about half a container) and let the beans soak for 12 to 24 hours, then drain. Then, 2 or 3 times a day add water to thoroughly soak the young sprouts (add by putting a faucet up to the J-cloth and letting the pressure push the water through the cloth). Immediately drain through the same part of the cloth, until the drips stop. Store the beans in a warm dark place....well, almost anywhere out of direct light. Repeat until the beans are full-size, about a week, depending on temperature. I find warmer temperatures get the beans to elongate better and they approach the size of sprouts in supermarkets. Following this recipe, the beans should completely fill the container when they are ready (they sure do expand!). This works well for mung beans and should work for most seeds of similar size. Alfalfa is a problem because the small seed and small shoots retain too much water after draining, so rot is a problem. I have tried various solutions - various ways to support the alfalfa seeds and keep them off the bottom of the container, but nothing worked. Don From zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca Sun Oct 24 21:25:31 EDT 1993 Article: 23674 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: alt.romance,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!utcsri!utnut!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!zaphod From: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey) Subject: Re: Roses and symbolism Organization: University of Western Ontario Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 17:24:28 GMT Message-ID: <1993Oct18.172428.4506@julian.uwo.ca> Followup-To: alt.romance,rec.gardens X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <29mcu9$h2s@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1993Oct16.143321.18077@cobra.uni.edu> <29pl1o$2j1@news.u.washington.edu> Sender: news@julian.uwo.ca (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: cupoftea.ctrg.rri.uwo.ca Lines: 75 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.romance:39572 rec.gardens:23674 on 16 Oct 1993 20:20:08 GMT John Neuharth wrote in rec.gardens: > klier@cobra.uni.edu writes: > >Yellow is generally construed as jealousy, pink as indecisiveness, red > >and white together is war, red and yellow together is a quarrel... here is sumat i pulled from the net a while back from Ellon Schnaible ellon@ads.com Amaryllis -Beautiful but timid Apple Blossom - Preference Beech Tree - Prosperity Broom, Scottish - Humility, Neatness Cactus - Warmth Clover, Four-leaf - Be Mine Clover, Red - Industry Daffodil - Unrequited Love Century Plant - Delicacy Chicory - Frugality Cyclamen _ Diffidence Daisy, Wild - I will think of it Dandelion - Coquetry Garden Sage - Esteem Geranium - I prefer you Grass - Submission, Utility Hawthorn - Hope Heath - Solitude Holly - Am I forgotten? Ivy - Fidelity, Marriage Lily of the Valley - Return of Happiness Laurel, Ground - Perseverance Mimosa - Sensitiveness Oak Tree - Maternal Love Olive - Peace Palm - Victory Pear - Affection Phlox - Our hearts are united Privet - Prohibition Quince - Temptation Rhododendron - Agitation Reed - Complaisance Shamrock - Light-heartedness Rose, Pink - Friendship Rose, Red - I Love You Rose, Yellow - I'm Sorry Sweet William - Gallantry Willow - Bravery & Humanity Birthstones and Flowers Jan - Garnet/Carnation Feb - Amethyst/Primrose Mar - Aquamarine/Jonquil Apr - Diamond/Daisy May - Emerald/Lily of the Valley Jun - Pearl/Rose Jul - Ruby/Larkspur Aug - Peridot/Gladiolus Sep - Sapphire/Aster Oct - Opal/Marigold Nov - Topaz/Chrysanthemum Dec - Turquoise/Poinsettia If anyone wants to know the Anniversary gifts list I will post that too! I hope this is of some help. -- Lance R. Bailey System/Network Manager Robarts Research Institute NeXT/email: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca box: Clinical Trials Resources Group fax: +1 519 663 3789 P.O. Box 5015, 100 Perth Dr. vox: +1 519 663 3787 x4108 London, Canada N6A 5K8 From tnez3@isuvax.iastate.edu Sun Oct 24 21:26:18 EDT 1993 Article: 23664 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: alt.romance,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!isuvax.iastate.edu!TNEZ3 From: tnez3@isuvax.iastate.edu (april ammons) Subject: Re: Roses and symbolism Message-ID: Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: tnez3@isuvax.iastate.edu Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa References: <29mcu9$h2s@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>,<1993Oct16.143321.18077@cobra.uni.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 15:09:25 GMT Lines: 19 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.romance:39557 rec.gardens:23664 In article <1993Oct16.143321.18077@cobra.uni.edu>, klier@cobra.uni.edu writes: >In article <29mcu9$h2s@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>, wes@ice.stx.com (John Shepherd) writes: >> Oh yeah. And is there one that symbolizes basic lust? > >Anthurium? (she sez with a wicked grin...) > >Well, how about a posy of: > teasel: "I thirst after you" > jonquil: "Have pity on my passion" > tuberose: dangerous pleasures; mistress of the night > tulip: the perfect lover > vervain: wish granting herb. > >Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI How about just sending her a print of a Virginia O'Keefe flower? ;-) April From hartman@das.harvard.edu Sun Oct 24 21:27:48 EDT 1993 Article: 23676 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: alt.romance,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!noc.near.net!das-news.harvard.edu!das!hartman From: hartman@das.harvard.edu (Anthony Hartman) Subject: Re: Roses and symbolism Message-ID: <1993Oct18.185337.29737@das.harvard.edu> Sender: usenet@das.harvard.edu (Network News) Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University References: <29mcu9$h2s@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov> <29mr72$f2g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Oct16.222928.18085@cobra.uni.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 18:53:37 GMT Lines: 40 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.romance:39588 rec.gardens:23676 In article <1993Oct16.222928.18085@cobra.uni.edu>, klier@cobra.uni.edu writes: |> In article <29mr72$f2g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) writes: |> > |> > In a previous article, djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) says: |> > |> >>On the subject of flower symbols: |> >>>And is there one that symbolizes basic lust? |> > |> > |> > Well, there is an old garden rose variety called "Cuisse de Nymphe," a fairly |> > erogenous allusion, if you ask me. |> > |> > J. Del Col (And yes, I do have that variety growing in my yard) |> |> Well, Jeff... just browsed through a couple of "language of flowers" books: |> have the vice squad ever tried to shut down your rosebeds???? |> |> Kay For those of you who are not up on your French... nymph \'nim(p)f\ \'nim(p)fs, 'nim(p)s\ \'nim(p)-f*l\ n or nymphs [ME nimphe, fr. MF, fr. L nympha bride, nymph, fr. Gk nymphe-] pl - more at NUPTIAL 1: one of the minor divinities of nature in ancient mythology represented as beautiful maidens dwelling in the mountains, forests, meadows, and waters 2: GIRL 3: any of various immature insects; esp : a larva of an insect with incomplete metamorphosis that differs chiefly in size and degree of differentiation from the imago - nymph.al aj Word: cuisse cuisse also cuish \'kwis\ \'kwish\ n [ME cusseis, pl., fr. MF cuissaux, pl. of cuissel, fr. cui]sse thigh, fr. L coxa hip - more at COXA : a piece of plate armor for the thigh esp. in front -- Tony Hartman hartman@harvard.harvard.edu From gere@umunhum.stanford.edu Sun Oct 24 21:29:05 EDT 1993 Article: 23743 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: alt.romance,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!nntp.Stanford.EDU!umunhum!gere From: gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere) Subject: Re: Roses and symbolism Message-ID: <1993Oct21.195324.4761@leland.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mr News) Organization: Stanford University References: <29mr72$f2g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Oct16.222928.18085@cobra.uni.edu> <1993Oct18.185337.29737@das.harvard.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 19:53:24 GMT Lines: 22 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.romance:39731 rec.gardens:23743 Tony Hartman and Jeffrey A. Del Col) write about: >|> > >|> >>On the subject of flower symbols: >|> >>>And is there one that symbolizes basic lust? >|> > >|> > Well, there is an old garden rose variety called "Cuisse de Nymphe," >|> > a fairly erogenous allusion, if you ask me. >|> > I love this rose - "Passionate Nymph's Thigh", as it is rendered in English. Just to add to the general folklore, it does have very fleshy pink petals, gathered in a central knot which might be likened to some part of a nymph. And the scent is a delectable old rose fragrance, augmented by a component I've often been able to liken only to the wholesome tang of a nymph's armpit (!). Go on, laugh - but I was going to contribute that thought next time one of the perennial scent discussions rolled around. Now I can't wait until spring to see her in bloom again! (O Great Maiden's Blush, as the Victorians lustlessly recast you...) From gere@umunhum.stanford.edu Sun Oct 24 21:29:40 EDT 1993 Article: 23761 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: alt.romance,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!uvaarpa!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!nntp.Stanford.EDU!umunhum!gere From: gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere) Subject: Re: Roses and symbolism Message-ID: <1993Oct22.062028.27965@leland.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mr News) Organization: Stanford University References: <1993Oct16.222928.18085@cobra.uni.edu> <1993Oct18.185337.29737@das.harvard.edu> <1993Oct21.195324.4761@leland.Stanford.EDU> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 06:20:28 GMT Lines: 25 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.romance:39769 rec.gardens:23761 A number of folks wrote about: > > > >>On the subject of flower symbols: >>>And is there one that symbolizes basic lust? > > This is so much fun, I can't resist more followup: I suppose the classic symbol would have to be Rosa Mundi, the sport of R. gallica officinalis known since antiquity and named by the commoners after Fair Rosamund, mistress of Henry II, who was so enchanted by his son's royal financee that he - well, deflowered her. Rosa is an open, semi double bloom splashed crimson and white, and for the symbolically sensitive like myself would be almost too crass. (Is this bordering on bad taste?) The modern reference must surely be the single, half-open yellow tea rose. For the recipient who has not read Rita Mae Brown's _Rubyfruit Jungle_, you might have to quote (circa p.102, Bantam ed.): "One perfect, yellow rose for your sunshine soul - and then will you sleep with me?" But, enough is enough. Susan, who has to practice this stuff vicariously now ; > From br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Sun Oct 24 21:30:36 EDT 1993 Article: 23771 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) Newsgroups: alt.romance,rec.gardens Subject: Re: Roses and symbolism Date: 22 Oct 1993 22:38:16 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 43 Message-ID: <2a9nco$b3i@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1993Oct16.222928.18085@cobra.uni.edu> <1993Oct18.185337.29737@das.harvard.edu> <1993Oct21.195324.4761@leland.Stanford.EDU> <1993Oct22.062028.27965@leland.Stanford.EDU> Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.romance:39790 rec.gardens:23771 In a previous article, gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere) says: >A number of folks wrote about: >> > >> >>On the subject of flower symbols: >>>>And is there one that symbolizes basic lust? >> > > This is so much fun, I can't resist more followup: > > I suppose the classic symbol would have to be Rosa Mundi, the sport of >R. gallica officinalis known since antiquity and named by the commoners >after Fair Rosamund, mistress of Henry II, who was so enchanted by his >son's royal financee that he - well, deflowered her. Rosa is an open, >semi double bloom splashed crimson and white, and for the symbolically >sensitive like myself would be almost too crass. >(Is this bordering on bad taste?) I've got this one, too. R. gallica versicolor is, despite its lascivious associations, a common flower in old cemeteries around here. It gets to bearound 2 meters high, rather lax in growth habit. The flowers can be white splashed with red, pink splashed with red, pure white or pure red, sometimes all on the same plant. Very nice perfume. It really appreciates good soil--many of the cemetery plants are quite scraggly from lack of nourishment, and most sources of info about the plant suggest dividing it fairly frequently to maintain vigor. The flowers are quite short-lived, a day or two at most. J. Del Col (who still thinks any rose named "Nymph's Thigh" has got rosa mundi beat when it comes to naughtiness) As for raids by the vice squad, I'm surprised that the headlines didn't make it to Kay's paper in Iowa "LOCAL NYMPH'S THIGH OPEN TO HYMENOPTERAN INVADERS!!! PERFUMED TART WELCOMES ALL COMERS!!" -- Jeff Del Col * DECONSTRUCTIONIST--an academic who denies the existence A-B College * of all authors except Derrida. Philippi, WV * * --THE NEW DEVIL'S DICTIONARY-- From claird@NeoSoft.com Sun Oct 24 21:31:11 EDT 1993 Article: 23679 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: alt.agriculture.fruit,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!uuneo!sugar!claird From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) Subject: Re: Shade tolerant fruits Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 19:55:52 GMT Message-ID: References: <1993Oct17.164629.24966@news.unomaha.edu> Lines: 25 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.agriculture.fruit:64 rec.gardens:23679 In article <1993Oct17.164629.24966@news.unomaha.edu> jwoods@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jay Arthur Woods) writes: > >I looking for suggestions on shade tolerant fruit bearing plants. I have >purchased a lot with lots of trees on it and I'd like to interplant with >an understory of fruits and nuts that will be happy in light to medium >shade. This is in Omaha, Nebraska. I'm willing to irrigate but I can't >control the cold. > This comes up often in rec.gardens and misc.rural. If some altruist finally wrote an FAQ for the former, I bet it's there. In any case, you're likely to get lots of answers from rec.gardens-ers. My favorites: berries. Currants have rewarded me im- mensely in a climate similar to yours, and there are lots of native New World berries that do well in those situations. Others with which I've had good experiences: shadberries, various ground cherries ... um, I'm start- ing to get hungry. -- Cameron Laird claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net) +1 713 267 7966 claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net) +1 713 996 8546 From kolling@adobe.com Sun Oct 24 21:31:24 EDT 1993 Article: 23694 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: alt.agriculture.fruit,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!decwrl!adobe!kolling From: kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling) Subject: Re: Shade tolerant fruits Message-ID: <1993Oct19.175127.13399@adobe.com> Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View References: <1993Oct17.164629.24966@news.unomaha.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 17:51:27 GMT Lines: 17 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.agriculture.fruit:66 rec.gardens:23694 >>>I looking for suggestions on shade tolerant fruit bearing plants. I have >>>purchased a lot with lots of trees on it and I'd like to interplant with >>>an understory of fruits and nuts that will be happy in light to medium >>>shade. This is in Omaha, Nebraska. I'm willing to irrigate but I can't >>>control the cold. I've just planted some strawberry guava and coffeeberries in partial shade; well, the plant tags said that was okay, so we'll see if it actually works. Also, various volunteer pyracanthas in my yard bear fruit in some shade. I'm in zone 9 (a few days a year just below freezing), so I don't know if these plants would be suitable for you. -- Karen Kolling kolling@adobe.com or kolling@netcom.com ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ ^._.^ From U14371@uicvm.uic.edu Sun Oct 24 21:32:13 EDT 1993 Article: 23680 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!bert.eecs.uic.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u14371 Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, ADN Computer Center Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 16:12:27 CDT From: Message-ID: <93291.161228U14371@uicvm.uic.edu> Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: RE: Exotic fruit & apples References: <1993Oct15.122559.1@uncavx> <1993Oct15.213916.18056@cobra.uni.edu> Lines: 21 In article <1993Oct15.213916.18056@cobra.uni.edu>, klier@cobra.uni.edu says: >In article <1993Oct15.122559.1@uncavx>, strauss@uncavx writes: >> To change the subject to apples, is anyone familiar with Grimes? A nasty >> greenish-yellow color with brown spots, but one of the juciest, tart apples >I >> ever had. grows here in Western NC (USA). > >Grimes Golden? Yes, I know it. I'm not sure I'd bother with it, though... >and especially not after munching my way around Seed Saver's orchard! > >Kay Klier Well, Kay, from what I understand from the several months of reading and apple eating I've done trying to decide what variety of apple(s) I want to grow, I believe Grimes Golden is a fairly good pollinator. Hans Goeckner BTW, do you recall if they have something called Ashmead's Kernel at the Seed Savers' orchard? Hans From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Oct 24 21:34:19 EDT 1993 Article: 23731 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: About these wildflowers ... ? Message-ID: <1993Oct20.182958.18305@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 20 Oct 93 18:29:58 -0500 References: <29v97d$crf@dorsai.dorsai.org> <93293.155621U14371@uicvm.uic.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 36 In article <93293.155621U14371@uicvm.uic.edu>, writes: > I would also appreciate it if someone (Kay? Susan?) could recommend a > GOOD basic(?) botany book I could learn from on my own. Also, where > could I find a good glossary for botanical terms (eg. scabrous [sp?])? For just plain readable, with a slight horticultural bent, Kingsley Stern's botany book is quite nice. For a slightly more academic (drier, less chatty) tome that is *very nice*, Peter Raven's botany text is also good. Another I've liked, though it's dated, is Rickett's Botany for Gardeners. I've looked at Brian Capon's book, with a similar title, but wasn't so much impressed... maybe I'm just jaded. There's also a very nice Visual Dictionary of Plants, often to be found in children's sections of bookstores. Wonderful, accurately named pictures of plant parts and major plant groups. Well worth the $10-$15. As to scabrous, scarious, scalariform, and all those other descriptive terms we bandy about in the taxonomic literature, one of the very best is the (alas!) out of print Radford, Dickison, Bell, Ritchie et al. Vascular Plant Systematics. About 2" of closely typed 8.5 x 11" pages that are sort of "everything you wanted to know about plant taxonomy but are afraid to ask". Borrow a copy from the library and photocopy the terminology section. (And if you find a spare copy laying around in a bookstore, Susan will swap you trilliums and probably even first born children for it. I've got a copy, but would love a second, since mine gets "borrowed" so often I'm thinking of chaining it to the bookcase.) If Radford et al isn't handy, most plant taxonomy texts do a good job with most of the terminology. I've taught with Porter's text, James Payne Smith's text, and I'm blanking on the current text... (grr). I'm away from the herbarium right now, but I'll look up your plants later... Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com Sun Oct 24 21:34:53 EDT 1993 Article: 23715 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!ukma!eng.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!hlm From: hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com (Heather Magill) Subject: Re: PC software for Landscaping Message-ID: <1993Oct19.170333.12686@phx.mcd.mot.com> Sender: news@phx.mcd.mot.com Nntp-Posting-Host: cretan.phx.mcd.mot.com Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az. References: Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 17:03:33 GMT Lines: 80 In article harsh@austin.ibm.com (Harsh Sharma) writes: > OOPS ! I might have posted this wrongfully on misc.consumers.house. > It might be more appropriate here (Sorry..NET COPS ...would not > happen again:-)) > > ******************************************************************* > > I am a pretty new Home owner (anyone that has my last few posts > probably has that figured out:)). I have a lot of expectation > and too many projects lined up (so what's new ...). Some of > which are - > > 1) Deck > 2) Garden (maybe a little pond) > 3) Satellite Dish (I might have to plan it so I can hide this one) > > (They might not follow this order ...ie if I do stick to this list) > > So here is my question, has any one used any PC software to design > the landscape? Some of the feature that I would like for... > > 1) Has different type of landscape mode that will show me what > my yard will look like. > 2) Gives me shurbs,plants and trees that will be best suited for > that side of the yard and to Texas (Austin..Zone 8). > 3) Also different design of decks. > > > I saw some PC software, but I would like to hear from some one who > might have used such a software (maybe I can buy it from you, if you > have no need to use it any more....)` > > Thanks, > Harsh- > There is an FAQ floating around here somewhere ( I can't seem to find my copy) and it lists Land Designer from Green Thumb Software. Wellllllll... I tried version 2.5d I really liked all the advertised features: * different layers for different aspects * layer for sprinking system than can be used to simulate water flow * plant database where you can tag your plants with where they were bought common name, botanical name how much $ when they were planted water and sun requirements etc. Lots of wonderful features according to the marketing hype. It was too good to be true :-( The CAD interface was very crude and it was very difficult for me to get the house and non plant features accurately on the drawing. The documentation was also cryptic. Normally, I can handle stuff like this (after all I work with computers for a living :-) but all I wanted to do was create a walkway and fill it in with a brick pattern. It was soooooo frustrating I sent the software back! Technical support was no help because they couldn't duplicate my problems (of course). Even now when I think about the software features, it was everything I wanted but when I went to use it for drawing my blood pressure went through the roof. Now, they *may* have a new version out and fixed the CAD portion. IF SO, I strongly recommend this software, IF NOT, don't touch it with a 10ft spade :-) Heather. --------- Obligatory garden comment: broccolli, garlic, radish sprouts up, beans doing fine and the whiteflies are DYING!!!!! Yeah! -- hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com From camg2.icgmfg.mke.ab.com Sun Oct 24 21:35:56 EDT 1993 Article: 23710 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!tinman2!NewsWatcher!user From: camg2.icgmfg.mke.ab.com (Al Fulmer) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Seed Source? Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: 20 Oct 1993 01:06:45 GMT Organization: Allen-Bradley Co. Lines: 16 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.151.84.152 Hi Gardeners, I'm looking for a seed source for "Eline" lettuce. It is a butter head lettuce that used to be available from Burpee Seed Company, but they no longer carry it. Any suggestions for alternative sources would be very much appreciated. Please E-mail or post. Thanks for your help. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Al Fulmer Allen-Bradley Co. Manufacturing Services Manager 1201 S. 2nd St. Phone: (414) 382-2272 Milwaukee, WI 53204 Fax: (414) 382-2742 fulmer@camg2.icgmfg.mke.ab.com From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Oct 24 21:37:35 EDT 1993 Article: 23717 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Flowers for wedding Message-ID: <1993Oct20.121100.18269@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 20 Oct 93 12:11:00 -0500 References: <2a3cel$mns@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> Distribution: world Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 22 In article <2a3cel$mns@hobbes.cc.uga.edu>, joanm@moe.coe.uga.edu (Joan Maxfield UCNS) writes: > Of all the flowers blooming in May (and thats pretty few it seems) > which are your favorites and why? Around here, we've got loads of redbuds and Magnolias about then... I know several people who've gotten married then to take advantage of the "free outdoor flowers"... You may be able to find a florist to work with you on using locally available materials you can gather, supplemented by some purchased flowers. Most florists can put on a reasonable show for a minimal price if you allow them as much discretion as possible, and don't pin them down with "I want white phalaenopsis and red poinsettias with gallardia and lupine... in July." Or you can think about whether you've got friends or family who are talented enough to produce "wedding quality" arrangements and bouquets... you pay for the wholesale flowers, the labor is their wedding present.... Or consider planting bulbous things now that will be ready for harvest in early May... Lots of luck. My previous advice still stands: Elope!!! ;-) Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From bhaile@leo.vsla.edu Sun Oct 24 21:37:42 EDT 1993 Article: 23745 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!s850.mwc.edu!uvaarpa!leo!bhaile From: bhaile@leo.vsla.edu (Bess Haile) Subject: Re: Flowers for wedding Message-ID: <1993Oct21.182534.7904@leo.vsla.edu> Organization: Virginia State Library References: <1993Oct20.121100.18269@cobra.uni.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 18:25:34 GMT Lines: 7 Here in tidewater VA, Zone 7, Mountain Laurel is in bloom...looks like a bunch of chinese lanterns, no scent. Also ROSES ROSES ROSES, They all bloom sometime in may. And lots of late tulips AND allium (sp) the flowering onion, very pretty. Besides, that's when the greenhouses have all their bedding plants for sale and you could find dozens of fun things. How about trailing petunias? From richter@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca Sun Oct 24 21:38:01 EDT 1993 Article: 23759 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!richter From: richter@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) Subject: Re: Has anyone tried the device that make seed starting pots from nwspaper Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: <1993Oct21.211317.19821@macc.wisc.edu> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 04:20:13 GMT Lines: 15 In article <1993Oct21.211317.19821@macc.wisc.edu>, BEVERLY SEAVEY wrote: >to be used to make seedstarting pots out of newspaper. Has anyone tried >it? It looks awfully overpriced for $18.50, but it sounds handy. >Does it cause carpal-tunnel syndrone ? The PotMaker (R) is also available from Johnny's Select Seeds, Burpee's, and Smith and Hawken. These sources may well offer the PotMaker (R) at lower prices. Conrad Richter Richters (Manufacturer of the PotMaker) From br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Sun Oct 24 21:39:40 EDT 1993 Article: 23766 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!br105 From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Wanted: "Caroline Testout" cuttings Date: 22 Oct 1993 17:51:14 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 24 Message-ID: <2a96ii$k9m@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu If it is true that there are "thousands" of bushes of the rose "Caroline Testout" planted in Portland Oregon, would somebody there please send me a cutting? A piece the size of a lead pencil is fine-- seal it in a zip-lock bag, put it in a jiffy mailer and send it to me. I'll gladly re-imburse postage and send you cuttings of local W Va. cemetery old roses in exchange. They tend to be mostly un-IDed gallicas and centifolias except for a couple of distinctive varieties like "Harison's Yellow." My postal address is: Jeff Del Col 15 Willis Lane Philippi, WV 26416 J. Del Col -- Jeff Del Col * DECONSTRUCTIONIST--an academic who denies the existence A-B College * of all authors except Derrida. Philippi, WV * * --THE NEW DEVIL'S DICTIONARY-- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!s850.mwc.edu!uvaarpa!murdoch!livia.acs.Virginia.EDU!jef2f Tue Oct 26 21:44:12 EDT 1993 Article: 23779 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!s850.mwc.edu!uvaarpa!murdoch!livia.acs.Virginia.EDU!jef2f From: jef2f@livia.acs.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Re: Selective Seed Saving? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia References: <1993Oct22.175453.3688@infonode.ingr.com> Distribution: na Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 11:19:49 GMT Lines: 11 Since almost all veg. cv.s are selected, and selection pressure is put on these populations, "preserving" an heirloom cv. is performed by selection. As a genetic steward, you have to risk a little bit, your bias on the variation within the gene pool. Ideally, to be sure of the cv.s integrity, find someone else you trust with the same cv., and trade your selected heirloom with theirs. Adam -- Adam Finkelstein Apiary Inspector Virginia Dept of Agriculture 116 Reservoir St. 703-433-1006 703-434-5607 fax Harrisonburg, VA 22801 jef2f@livia.acs.virginia.edu disclaimers apply From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!panix!not-for-mail Tue Oct 26 21:54:39 EDT 1993 Article: 23782 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!panix!not-for-mail From: fishman@panix.com (Harvey Fishman) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: manure in N.Y.C! Date: 23 Oct 1993 18:00:32 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2ac9i0$cqp@panix.com> References: <2a7b4c$goo@dorsai.dorsai.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com In <2a7b4c$goo@dorsai.dorsai.org> dawyd@dorsai.dorsai.org (David Gurzynski) says > I have been told that manure can be gotten from a stable in Manhattan > and from one in Brooklyn by the belt pkwy. I'll try to get the > addresses and post them. The place by the Belt Parkway is Jamaica Bay Riding Academy 7000 Shore Parkway (718) 531-8949 Harvey -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harvey Fishman | fishman@panix.com | The Feature Selection of the .sig-of-the-Month-Club(tm) 718-258-7276 | From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!halon!sybase!karenp Tue Oct 26 21:55:57 EDT 1993 Article: 23784 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: alt.romance,rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!halon!sybase!karenp From: karenp@sybase.com (Karen Paulsell) Subject: Re: Roses and symbolism Message-ID: Sender: usenet@sybase.com Organization: Sybase, Inc. References: <29mcu9$h2s@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1993Oct16.143321.18077@cobra.uni.edu> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 01:22:01 GMT Lines: 17 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.romance:39829 rec.gardens:23784 In article <1993Oct16.143321.18077@cobra.uni.edu> klier@cobra.uni.edu writes: >Anthurium? (she sez with a wicked grin...) Well, Kay, I don't know how it is back there in the Midwest these days, I escaped long ago, but in the Castro district of SF, the flower shops are LOADED with Anthuriums, especially around Valentine's day! Someone gave me a charming, though rather smelly book ... a scented "The Language of Flowers". Maybe 30 or so entries, each with a bit of prose, sometimes a poem, and a painting to match the flower or emotion. Most of the paintings have women, quite, quite beautiful or striking or handsome or just plain lovely women, many with flowers, or in gardens. If you see it on the shelf at the bookstore, hold your nose and take a browse. Has no entry for Lust, however... From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!news Thu Oct 28 10:04:49 EDT 1993 Article: 217 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!news From: Arthur W. Kelley Subject: NCSU Arboretum Announcement Message-ID: <1993Oct25.155214.11674@ncsu.edu> X-Xxdate: Mon, 25 Oct 93 16:51:04 GMT Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: North Carolina State University X-Useragent: Version 1.1.3 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 15:52:14 GMT Lines: 28 ====================================================== | Announcing | | DR. J.C. RAULSTON - DIRECTOR OF THE NCSU ARBORETUM | | "The Mexico Trip and Collections - Chapter II" | | Wednesday, November 3 | | 8:00 PM | | The lecture will be held in 3712 Bostian Hall | | NCSU Campus | ====================================================== J.C. recently had the opportunity to visit Mexico to study and collect plants of the mountain region. He will be presenting a slide lecture of some of these interesting landscape plants. ------------------------ Note ------------------------ This announcement posted by Arthur W. Kelley - awkelley@mail.ece.ncsu.edu for Tom Foley - tom_foley@server.hort.ncsu.edu because he does not yet have access to a news reader. (We!re working on it.) Please direct all questions/comments to Mr. Foley. From kfong@ctp.com Sun Oct 31 11:23:11 EST 1993 Article: 23884 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!ctp!kfong From: kfong@ctp.com (Katherine Fong) Subject: interesting article in NYT Message-ID: <1993Oct28.172742.18112@ctp.com> Sender: news@ctp.com Nntp-Posting-Host: luna.ctp.com Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners References: <1993Oct22.183332.2009@schbbs.mot.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 17:27:42 GMT Lines: 20 I meant to post the article, but the paper got thrown out. Anyway, in a recent (within the past week) issue of the New York Times (whatever day they have a gardening page), they had an interesting article on the benefits of touching plants. It seems that seedlings that were handled regularly grew to be more stronger and less leggy than ones that were not handled. The author of the article began by telling how his green-thumb father liked to "pet" plants. But it seems that any contact will do -- they mentioned brushing over plants with a broom handle or pole or something. Guess it sorta makes sense...? Sorry my summary is kind of sketchy, but it shouldn't be too hard to dig up the article in your local library if you're really interested. Kathy kfong@ctp.com From bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca Sun Oct 31 11:26:04 EST 1993 Article: 23820 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!utnut!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!bobw From: bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Bob Wildfong) Subject: Re: Selective Seed Saving? Message-ID: Sender: news@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca Organization: Computer Systems Group, University of Waterloo References: <1993Oct22.175453.3688@infonode.ingr.com> Distribution: na Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 20:38:34 GMT Lines: 47 In article <1993Oct22.175453.3688@infonode.ingr.com>, wrote: >If I am saving seeds from an heirloom tomato and >I have big tomatoes and little tomatoes, does it >matter which fruits off of this particular plant >I choose for my seed saving? > >I can understand that I should choose from the best >tomato _plant_ I have, but from that particular plant >it seems to me that all seeds, regardless of the fruit >they come from, will have the same genes. > >Many thanks. > >Dave Bradford debradfo@ingr.com Different sized fruit can be caused by genetic differences. Some varieties, especially heirlooms, have a diverse _population_ of genes. This means that there can be quite a bit of variation from one plant to the next, but they all represent the same variety. Modern varieties tend to be bred for uniformity, so this has become an unusual concept. Variations can also be caused by environmental differences. Two tomatoes on the same plant can turn out quite differently because they were exposed to different conditions during their development. For example, if they initially formed a few days apart, they may have experienced different temperatures at this critical stage and might grow up differently. This is why genetically- identical twins are almost never _exactly_ alike. In general, if cross-pollination has been avoided, all of the seeds from a single plant should contain the same genes. If there are different-sized fruit on that plant, it's due to environmental conditions. The seeds are created equal. BTW If you want to preserve an heirloom variety and find that the plants are not all exactly alike, that's probably normal. You should collect seeds from all of the healthy plants to preserve the variation. To lose the normal diversity of genes within such a variety is like losing the variety; you won't have preserved it entirely. Populations without slight variations only exist in very artificial situations. Bob Wildfong bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca Waterloo, Ontario bobw@csg.waterloo.edu AgCan zone 5b, USDA zone 4 From kazan@epas.utoronto.ca Sun Oct 31 11:29:27 EST 1993 Article: 23889 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!cannon.ecf!alpha.epas.utoronto.ca!not-for-mail From: kazan@epas.utoronto.ca (P. Kazan) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: watering houseplants Date: 28 Oct 1993 14:08:42 -0400 Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto Lines: 19 Message-ID: <2ap1ra$2sf@epas.utoronto.ca> References: <1993Oct21.162535.12413@es.dupont.com> <2an1no$cql@jfwnew.funhouse.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: epas.utoronto.ca I always thought it was good for the plant to allow some leaching of excess salts from the salt by slightly overwatering. It prevents salt buildup. But it certainly isn't good to let the roots sit in water. What I do to prevent plants from sitting in water is to place some gravel in the saucer to raise the bottom of the pot above the resting water. I add some charcol bits to the gravel to keep the water from going stagnent. This way I don't have to empty the excess water and I have created a natural humidifying tray. (Obviously this doesn't work for cacti and other plants that don't like excess moisture.) Also, I agree that you should let most plants (some like to be moist all the time)dry out a bit before watering to help encourage aeration through the cracks formed in the soil. But don't let them get bone dry. It ehlps to water the plant slowly, alittle bit at a time so that the water doesn't all rush through to the saucer. Patti From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Oct 31 11:30:58 EST 1993 Article: 23861 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Freezing Seeds? Message-ID: <1993Oct26.175618.18522@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 26 Oct 93 17:56:18 -0500 References: <751661730.AA07484@Clone.his.com> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 22 In article <751661730.AA07484@Clone.his.com>, jamie.wernitznig@his.com (Jamie Wernitznig) writes: > I am new to both gardening and this newsgroup, and was wondering if any of you > could possibly answer this question. A friend has given me some 40 packets of > Burpee flower seeds, mostly annuals, that were packaged for use in 1993. What > would be the best way for me to store these so I may use them next spring? > Would freezing or refrigerating them be helpful? I thought I'd start a few of > them, such as the marigolds, indoors early, and sow the rest outside as soon > as I was able (I live in zone 7). Cool and dry is the key for most temperate species (like the ones you've probably got). Seeds of tropical species often won't survive either condition... All of the seeds I've gotten from Burpee in the last few years were in sealed foil bags... which takes care of the dry part (at least if the package is still sealed). Store the packets in the refrigerator and most will be fine next spring. If you've got open packets, put the packets in a sealed mason jar or tupperware container in the refrigerator. Kay (Really? Most folks don't fill the vegetable drawers with seeds and bulbs?) Klier Biology Dept UNI From egv3mrh@mvs.oac.ucla.edu Sun Oct 31 11:32:14 EST 1993 Article: 23893 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU!EGV3MRH From: EGV3MRH@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Mark Horne) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Freezing Seeds? Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 14:57 Organization: UCLA Microcomputer Support Office Lines: 29 Sender: MVS NNTP News Reader Message-ID: <19931028145713EGV3MRH@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> References: Reply-To: egv3mrh@mvs.oac.ucla.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: mvs.oac.ucla.edu In article , bae@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher) writes: >In article <1993Oct26.175618.18522@cobra.uni.edu>, > wrote: >> >>Kay (Really? Most folks don't fill the vegetable drawers with >> seeds and bulbs?) Klier Biology Dept UNI > >I've had very good results keeping garden seeds in the fridge too, often >retaining very high viability for many years. stuff deleted... The November issue of Sunset Magazine had a short note that somebody from UC Davis (yes, the folks that recommended the bad grape rootstock and brought us the machines and varieties of those awful red things in the supermarkets called "tomatoes") came up with storing seeds in a jar in the fridge with powdered milk. Said the seeds would keep for years, but you need to change the powdered milk annually. I guess the milk must absorb water, which could effect the seed's viability. The caveat was to use a fresh box, not any leftovers in the cabinet, as some moisture could already have crept in. Can't vouch for it, and I doubt that it would be worth the trouble for any small seeds (unless you have the patience to pick out the seeds from the milk granules every year). Submitted for your consideration. Mark P.S. No, I'm not trying to start a new thread on advice from UC Davis. From mspitzer@mcleod.bio.uci.edu Sun Oct 31 11:36:16 EST 1993 Article: 23906 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!mcleod.bio.uci.edu!mspitzer From: mspitzer@mcleod.bio.uci.edu (Matt Spitzer) Subject: Baby bok-choi seeds Nntp-Posting-Host: mcleod.bio.uci.edu Message-ID: <2CD08918.23845@news.service.uci.edu> Summary: source? Newsgroups: rec.gardens Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 7 Date: 29 Oct 93 03:08:09 GMT Can anyone direct me to a source of seeds for baby bok choi? Also Chinese broccoli (Gai Lan), purple bok choi and flowering bok choi seeds would be appreciated. Thanks. Matt Spitzer From jmcnult@orion.it.luc.edu Sun Oct 31 11:37:38 EST 1993 Article: 23928 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!caen!msuinfo!uchinews!apollo!orion.it.luc.edu!jmcnult From: jmcnult@orion.it.luc.edu (John A. Mcnulty) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Master Gardener Program CES Date: 31 Oct 1993 01:46:17 GMT Organization: Loyola University of Chicago Lines: 10 Message-ID: <2av5d9$cpg@apollo.it.luc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: orion.it.luc.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I am a Master Gardener with the Illinois Cooperative Extension Service. My fellow MG's and I are getting frustrated trying to get through to our superiors, who are always "at meetings". Somewhere I saw what appeared to be a CES bulletin board. Since I am new to internet, I don't know how to search for this. I know our district leader has an email address, but his secretary didn't know the actual address (she knew his code name). Any suggestions? (be nice!). Patty, not John From hi23ahg@rs5.tcs.tulane.edu Sun Oct 31 11:38:44 EST 1993 Article: 23929 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!tulane!rs5.tcs.tulane.edu!hi23ahg From: hi23ahg@rs5.tcs.tulane.edu (phil mueller) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Master Gardener Program CES Date: 31 Oct 1993 02:43:51 GMT Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA Lines: 20 Message-ID: <2av8p7$436@news.cs.tulane.edu> References: <2av5d9$cpg@apollo.it.luc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: rs5.tcs.tulane.edu In article <2av5d9$cpg@apollo.it.luc.edu> jmcnult@orion.it.luc.edu (John A. Mcnulty) writes: > >I am a Master Gardener with the Illinois Cooperative Extension Service. >My fellow MG's and I are getting frustrated trying to get through to our >superiors, who are always "at meetings". Somewhere I saw what appeared >to be a CES bulletin board. Since I am new to internet, I don't know >how to search for this. I know our district leader has an email address, >but his secretary didn't know the actual address (she knew his code name). >Any suggestions? (be nice!). > >Patty, not John You might get some infor from the master gardener list. You may have to join to post. Send a mail message to listserv@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu with no subject. Message should read subscribe mgarden your name. They should be able to tell you about a CES bulletin board. Good luck, Phil Mueller hi23ahg@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu From jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org Tue Nov 2 23:10:51 EST 1993 Article: 23700 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: rural land ethics From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Distribution: world Message-ID: <36.2116.2552.0N41C23F@gcbb.granite.mn.org> References: Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 04:02:00 +0600 Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis Lines: 37 Breland@Mcc.Com to All - Monday, October 18th: Discussing: Re: rural land ethics B>Mention was made in an early post about the terrible consequences of >burning leaves, with an immediate jump to the toxicity of burn barrels. >This is ridiculous! Focus should be made on letting nature run her >course, not dictating what the environment 'should' be. Naturally >occuring fires have cleared out overgrown areas and resulted in new, >rejuvenated environments for centuries before the human race came along. The data I have on the particulant levels from leaf burning is well documented. Perhaps like cigarette smoking, many people would seek to deny the negative effects of fires on lungs. In urban areas, some leaf burning is so rampant that it is nearly impossible for persons with lung problems like asthma and emphysema to go outdoors. Suburban leaf burning is not letting "nature run its course". Nature burns prairie grasses regularly, not forest floors. I have no problem with man interacting to control fire, both in fostering its natural occurrences and in preventing the destruction of private property. I suppose that as a solid waste management professional, I see the impact of barrel burning more often than most persons. The practice is worse than medieval in a supposedly civilized society. Unlike many of my environmentalist contemporaries, I see value in many refuse to energy facilities and am not opposed to well managed landfills either. But for the life of me, I can see no value in leaf burning, nor can I accept the argument that it represents "nature running its course". Jim Mr Compost~~~ McNelly Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org --- * October 19th - Galactic Wanderer From klier@cobra.uni.edu Tue Nov 2 23:15:07 EST 1993 Article: 23711 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: rural land ethics Message-ID: <1993Oct19.201707.18227@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 19 Oct 93 20:17:07 -0500 References: <1993Oct19.131800.9158@leo.vsla.edu> <2a1ifp$blh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 69 In article <2a1ifp$blh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) writes: > In article <1993Oct19.131800.9158@leo.vsla.edu> bhaile@leo.vsla.edu (Bess Haile > ) writes: >>Of all the arrogant ideas...to show how rural dwellers >>disregard the care and stewardship of land! Well, after seeing >>the filth, litter, and polution in most of the urban areas I've >>been to over the last 10 years, I'll stay here in the country, >>on my easment protected farm and hope we can keep the armchair >>environmentalists locked up in their cities...or suburbs, as >>the case may be. > For years the family has been hauling stuff to "the ditch": timbers, > junk, rusted fence and so forth. The ditch is in a secluded, hilly > area of the farm, overgrown with osage orange and other scrub species. ... We pulled the wagon through the fields, whereas in the past > the trip was made part-way along township roads. I wondered why: my > cousin told me that the EPA was "cracking down" on farm ditches. Hey, not so fast. I'm often out in farmland, and I've seen some "farm ditches" that I'd be less likely to go into than I am to sit on the capped reactor at Chernobyl. Pesticide cans, dead animals, fuel tanks, leaky barrels of diesel, barrels of God-alone-knows-what. Add that sort of junk to: 1) ditch (therefore high water movement through with rains or snowmelt); usually into creeks, rivers, lakes... 2) groundwater movement (right into the neighbors' shallow wells) and sometimes 3) karst topography, therefore the potential to drain into deeper aquifers and move great distances before "turning up" in someone's water supply. Was that 1914 icehouse painted? Lead based paint? And do you mind if those paint chips soak in your families' water supplies and leach lead to the babies? Or maybe not yours, but somebody who traces the stuff back to you, then lets you know that you're responsible for their kid's neurological impairments? How about those asbestos and tar shingles? I'm not saying that the remains of an icehouse _are_ hazardous... just that people need to think before they take the easiest way of disposing of something. Rec.gardens isn't the place for this sort of issue to be addressed, so I promise this will be my last diatribe. Please, before you conclude the EPA is going to clap you in manacles for the rest of your life just because you dump the leaves from the trees in the windbreak in your back ditch, THINK about long term potential for your actions or inactions to harm yourself, your neighbors, your kids, and other species. We North Americans enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world. To a great extent, it's been possible by our relatively low population density. We throw out stuff most of the rest of the world would be delighted to own. (Trust me, I've gotten some great furniture from dumps... it just needed some minor repairs.) The day may well come when our dumps become one of the better sources of minerals... Whenever I teach an environmental science class, I keep finding myself saying the same things again and again. "Live simply, so others can simply live." "A thing is right when it tends to increase the beauty and integrity of the whole. It is wrong when it tends otherwise." "Short term thinking gets you into major messes. Long term thinking keeps you out of them." OK, if you don't want to read Aldo Leopold, pick up a book by another great writer: Dr. Suess's _The Lorax_. The last seeds of the truffula trees are ours. What are _you_ personally going to do with them? Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From klier@cobra.uni.edu Tue Nov 2 23:15:34 EST 1993 Article: 23711 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: rural land ethics Message-ID: <1993Oct19.201707.18227@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 19 Oct 93 20:17:07 -0500 References: <1993Oct19.131800.9158@leo.vsla.edu> <2a1ifp$blh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 69 In article <2a1ifp$blh@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) writes: > In article <1993Oct19.131800.9158@leo.vsla.edu> bhaile@leo.vsla.edu (Bess Haile > ) writes: >>Of all the arrogant ideas...to show how rural dwellers >>disregard the care and stewardship of land! Well, after seeing >>the filth, litter, and polution in most of the urban areas I've >>been to over the last 10 years, I'll stay here in the country, >>on my easment protected farm and hope we can keep the armchair >>environmentalists locked up in their cities...or suburbs, as >>the case may be. > For years the family has been hauling stuff to "the ditch": timbers, > junk, rusted fence and so forth. The ditch is in a secluded, hilly > area of the farm, overgrown with osage orange and other scrub species. ... We pulled the wagon through the fields, whereas in the past > the trip was made part-way along township roads. I wondered why: my > cousin told me that the EPA was "cracking down" on farm ditches. Hey, not so fast. I'm often out in farmland, and I've seen some "farm ditches" that I'd be less likely to go into than I am to sit on the capped reactor at Chernobyl. Pesticide cans, dead animals, fuel tanks, leaky barrels of diesel, barrels of God-alone-knows-what. Add that sort of junk to: 1) ditch (therefore high water movement through with rains or snowmelt); usually into creeks, rivers, lakes... 2) groundwater movement (right into the neighbors' shallow wells) and sometimes 3) karst topography, therefore the potential to drain into deeper aquifers and move great distances before "turning up" in someone's water supply. Was that 1914 icehouse painted? Lead based paint? And do you mind if those paint chips soak in your families' water supplies and leach lead to the babies? Or maybe not yours, but somebody who traces the stuff back to you, then lets you know that you're responsible for their kid's neurological impairments? How about those asbestos and tar shingles? I'm not saying that the remains of an icehouse _are_ hazardous... just that people need to think before they take the easiest way of disposing of something. Rec.gardens isn't the place for this sort of issue to be addressed, so I promise this will be my last diatribe. Please, before you conclude the EPA is going to clap you in manacles for the rest of your life just because you dump the leaves from the trees in the windbreak in your back ditch, THINK about long term potential for your actions or inactions to harm yourself, your neighbors, your kids, and other species. We North Americans enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world. To a great extent, it's been possible by our relatively low population density. We throw out stuff most of the rest of the world would be delighted to own. (Trust me, I've gotten some great furniture from dumps... it just needed some minor repairs.) The day may well come when our dumps become one of the better sources of minerals... Whenever I teach an environmental science class, I keep finding myself saying the same things again and again. "Live simply, so others can simply live." "A thing is right when it tends to increase the beauty and integrity of the whole. It is wrong when it tends otherwise." "Short term thinking gets you into major messes. Long term thinking keeps you out of them." OK, if you don't want to read Aldo Leopold, pick up a book by another great writer: Dr. Suess's _The Lorax_. The last seeds of the truffula trees are ours. What are _you_ personally going to do with them? Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sat Nov 6 23:22:49 EST 1993 Article: 24027 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!nstassen From: nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicki A Stassen Lantz) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Rare Plants & Seeds Catalog Date: 5 Nov 1993 13:31:29 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 47 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2bdkjh$8f8@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Disclaimer: I don't work for the guy who puts together this catalog, but I did mail him once asking for help on germinating "theobroma cacao" (chocolate) seeds, and he was nice enough to send a lengthy description of what he does (he was listed in Seed Savers as offering chocolate seeds, so I figured he could help me). Then out of the blue this catalog arrives a few days ago - I'm in heaven! Ron's Rare Plants & Seeds Ron Werner, Horticulturist 415 Chappel Calumet City, Illinois 60409 There are a few different sections, including seeds for outdoors and wildflowers from a grower in Montana. Also seems to be an extensive list of seeds imported from Australia (the gum list runs at least 1 page). Here are some items from the catalog (I had good intentions to type in more than this, but work interferred!): For all those people who are wondering where to get Vanilla plants, he lists "vanilla planifolia", rooted plants for 5.50 6 poppy species 15 passiflora species 12 different digitalis 7 yucca 6 arisaema (includes jack-in-the-pulpit) 10 bauhinia 12 cactus types 18 campanula 6 ornamental bananas (seeds) 22 leptospermum etc etc etc tons of stuff... In all, there are about 44 pages of seeds (more seeds than plants) and he says he can do seed and plant searches. Anyways, just thought I'd repay his kindness to me by mentioning the catalog to the net. The list of seeds is quite extensive and rivals "The Banana Tree" (my other *favorite* seeds catalog). NOTE: I haven't ordered anything yet, so I don't know how fast orders would get processed, but the shipping for 10 or less seed packets is only 1.00, which seems reasonable to me. Have fun! N A Stassen Lantz From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!dg-rtp!dg-rtp!taylort Tue Nov 9 23:26:54 EST 1993 Article: 218 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!dg-rtp!dg-rtp!taylort From: taylort@peyote.dg-rtp.dg.com (Tad Taylor) Subject: Re: Barney saves lives!!! Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: pmcguirk@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu's message of Sat, 30 Oct 1993 06:01:40 GMT Date: 1 Nov 93 12:45:24 Distribution: triangle To: pmcguirk@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Patrick Sean McGuirk) References: <23OCT93.00015738.0060@vm1.mcgill.ca> <2aanh7$bdg@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> <1993Oct30.060140.7409@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> Organization: /udd/sqa/taylort/.organization Lines: 11 I conclude that triangle.gardens was included in this post because of the high manure content :-) That or the desire to see Barney used as fertilizer. Tad -- /* Tad Taylor | 919-248-6374 */ /* Data General Corporation | taylort@dg-rtp.dg.com */ /* 62 T.W. Alexander Dr. | */ /* Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 | FAX: 919-248-6352 */ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!news Tue Nov 9 23:26:56 EST 1993 Article: 219 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!news From: SJGALLA@STEVEG.RALEIGH.IBM.COM Subject: Compost Worms? Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 17:53:05 GMT Lines: 9 Reply-To: SGALLAGHER@RTP.VNET.IBM.COM Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM. Nntp-Posting-Host: steveg.raleigh.ibm.com Organization: LAN Interconnect Product group, RTP NC X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.00 I am looking for a local (Raleigh area) source for worms suitable for breaking down a bunch of leaf mulch and other goodies into compost. I know if I leave the stuff alone for a year it'll anaerobically compost itself, but I need it broken down by next spring. Any pointers? Steve Gallagher From libby@igc.apc.org Tue Nov 9 23:45:12 EST 1993 Article: 24092 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!odin!sgi!cdp!libby From: Libby Goldstein Newsgroups: rec.gardens Date: 07 Nov 93 13:31 PST Subject: Re: Baby bok-choi seeds Message-ID: <1453300385@cdp> References: <2CD08918.23845@news.service.uci.> Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Lines: 13 Mark, I hope you're the person who wanted sources for baby bok choy. I messed up downloading the request. Anyway, here are a few: The Cook's Garden, POB 65, Londonderry, VT 05148. The catalog costs $1.00 and is refundable with your order. Shepherd's Garden Seeds, 30 Irene St., Torrington CT 06790 $1.00 Nichols Garden Nursery, 1190 Pacific Hwy., Albany OR 97321 Libby From libby@igc.apc.org Tue Nov 9 23:45:31 EST 1993 Article: 24093 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!odin!sgi!cdp!libby From: Libby Goldstein Newsgroups: rec.gardens Date: 07 Nov 93 13:39 PST Subject: Re: How to grow Garlic. Message-ID: <1453300386@cdp> References: <2b3jba$b0d@mojo.eng.umd.edu> Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Lines: 11 Carefully separate each garlic clove from the head, trying not to remove the "skin". Plant each clove pointy end up about 1" deep and 3-4" from the next one. If some of them have sprouts, you can leave the sprouts under the soil. They'll grow better that way. Growing garlic likes lots of sun and an inch of water per sq ft of garlic bed or per ft of row every week. If they start to send up flower stalks next spring, pinch the stalks off or cut them off. You'll get bigger cloves that way. Libby , From pharvey@quack.kfu.com Tue Nov 9 23:45:41 EST 1993 Article: 24120 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!quack!pharvey From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) Subject: Re: How to grow Garlic. Message-ID: Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'. References: <2b3jba$b0d@mojo.eng.umd.edu> Date: 9 Nov 1993 03:50:56 UTC Lines: 14 In article <2b3jba$b0d@mojo.eng.umd.edu> naru@eng.umd.edu (Naruhisa Takashima) writes: >Well a clump of garlic that I left in a cabinet started to >shoot some sprouts. I thought, hey why don't I try to grow >this thing. Now mind you, I have never grown anything in >my life. So I put the garlic in a little cup w/ some >water and now roots are starting to come out. >So my question is what do I do now? Put the clove in a container about the size of a coffee cup that has holes on the bottom and potting soil inside. Sunny south facing window is best. Greens can be eaten at any time, or in about six months it should go dormant and you'll have some new cloves for eating or more plants in another six months. From klier@cobra.uni.edu Tue Nov 9 23:48:01 EST 1993 Article: 24118 of rec.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: How to get rec.gardens FAQs\ Message-ID: <1993Nov8.210944.19098@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 8 Nov 93 21:09:44 -0500 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 496 Where to get the rec.gardens FAQs --------------------------------- anonymous ftp: - ftp sunsite.unc.edu cd pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/recgardens - or - telnet sunsite.unc.edu Login: gopher Enter term type: vt100 [works fine] go to: sunsite archives sustainable agriculture information browse sustainable agriculture information sustainable agriculture recgardens or go to: sunsite archives browse sunsite archives academic agriculture sustainable agriculture recgardens - Lawrence london@sunSITE.unc.edu > How can I get the FAQs if I haven't got FTP? Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 21:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Retreival of the sourdough FAQs at sunSITE.unc.edu using Internet e-mail ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You should be able to retreive them using FTPMail at sunSITE. Here's the collection of docs I have on FTPMail. One of them is what you get when you send e-mail to: ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu Subject: help and/or: Message Text: help --=-- Subject: this is the ftp-mail doc... Valid commands to the email-ftp gateway are: reply-to email-address Who to send the response to. Defaults to your incoming email address open [site [user [pass]]] Site to ftp to. Defaults are sunsite.unc.edu anonymous reply-to-address. cd pathname change directory. ls [pathname] short listing of pathname. Default pathname is current directory. dir [pathname] long listing of pathname. Default pathname is current directory. get pathname get a file and email it back. compress compress files/dir-listings before emailing back uuencode btoa These are mutually exclusive options for converting a binary file before emailing. (Default is uuencode) force uuencode force btoa Force all files or directory listings to be encoded before sending back. There is no default. mode binary mode ascii change the mode selected for the get command. Defaults to binary. quit End of input - ignore any following lines. Example scripts are: open dir quit Connect to sunsite.unc.edu and send back the contents of the top level directory reply-to jem@lambada.oit.unc.edu open cd unix get buffer.shar quit Connect to sunsite.unc.edu and send back the file buffer.shar to jem@lambada.oit.unc.edu open sunsite.unc.edu cd /pub/Linux get 00-find.Linux cd ../X11/contrib compress ls -ltra quit Connect to sunsite.unc.edu, send back the file 00-find.Linux.Z in /pub/Linux, which is a listing of all files in the Linux area. As this is a binary file it has to be transfered in binary mode. Because it is binary it will automagically be uuencoded (the default binary encoder). Then change to ../contrib and mail back a compressed directory listing. Although compressing ls output makes it binary, which then has to be encoded, it still ends up smaller than the original. open cd /pub/X11/contrib/R5fixes get fix-08 get fix-09 get sunGX.uu quit Retrieve some recent X fixes open cd gnu atob mode binary get emacs-18.59.tar.Z quit Retrieve the newest version of GNU Emacs in atob format >>From ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu Thu Aug 26 21:53:30 1993 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 21:21:07 EST From: FTP-MAIL daemon Valid commands to the email-ftp gateway are: reply-to email-address Who to send the response to. Defaults to your incoming email address open [site [user [pass]]] Site to ftp to. Defaults are sunsite.unc.edu anonymous reply-to-address. cd pathname change directory. ls [pathname] short listing of pathname. Default pathname is current directory. dir [pathname] long listing of pathname. Default pathname is current directory. get pathname get a fail and email back. compress compress files/dir-listings before emailing back uuencode btoa These are mutually exclusive options for converting a binary file before emailing. (Default is uuencode) force uuencode force btoa Force all files or directory listings to be encoded before sending back. There is no default. mode binary mode ascii change the mode selected for the get command. Defaults to binary. quit End of input - ignore any following lines. Example scripts are: open dir quit Connect to sunsite.unc.edu and send back the contents of the top level directory reply-to lmjm@doc.ic.ac.uk open cd pub get INDEX quit Connect to sunsite.unc.edu and send back the file INDEX to lmjm@doc.ic.ac.uk open src.doc.ic.ac.uk cd graphics/X11/X.V11R5 get ls-lR.Z cd ../contrib compress ls -ltra quit Connect to src.doc.ic.ac.uk, send back the file ls-lR.Z in graphics/X11/X.V11R5. As this is a binary file it has to be transfered in binary mode. Because it is binary it will automatically be uuencoded (the default binary encoder). Then change to ../contrib and mail back a compressed directory listing. Although compressing ls output makes it binary, which then has to be encoded, it still ends up smaller than the original. open cd graphics/X11/X.V11R5/fixes get fix-08 get fix-09 get sunGX.uu quit Retrieve some recent X fixes open cd gnu atob mode binary get emacs-18.57.tar.Z quit >>From ftpmail@calypso Thu Aug 26 21:54:31 1993 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 21:52:27 EDT From: File Transfer by Mail Subject: response response ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu - ftp's files and sends them back via electronic mail. If you have problems please email ftpkeeper@sunsite.unc.edu and quote the following line: $Revision: 1.19 $ >>Valid commands to the ftpmail gateway are: reply-to email-address Who to send the response to. This is optional and defaults to the users email address >>Followed by one of: help Just send back help delete jobid Delete the given job open [site [user [pass]]] Site to ftp to. Defaults are sunsite.unc.edu anonymous reply-to-address. >>If there was an open then it can be followed by up to 100 of the >>following commands cd pathname Change directory. ls [pathname] short listing of pathname. Default pathname is current directory. dir [pathname] long listing of pathname. Default pathname is current directory. get pathname Get a file and email it back. compress Compress files/dir-listings before emailing back gzip Gzip files/dir-listings before emailing back uuencode btoa These are mutually exclusive options for converting a binary file before emailing. (Default is uuencode.) force uuencode force btoa Force all files or directory listings to be encoded before sending back. There is no default. mime Send the message as a Mime Verson 1.0 message. Text will be sent as text/plain charset=US-ASCII Non-text as application/octet-stream. If the file is splitup then it will be sent as a message/partial. force mime As mime but force text files to be sent as application/octet-stream no [compress|gzip|uuencode|btoa|mime] Turn the option off. size num[K|M] Set the max size a file can be before it is split up and emailed back in parts to the given number of Kilo or Mega bytes. This is limited to 102400. mode binary mode ascii Change the mode selected for the get command. Defaults to binary. quit End of input - ignore any following lines. Example scripts are: open dir quit Connect to sunsite.unc.edu and send back the contents of the top level directory reply-to lmjm@doc.ic.ac.uk open cd unix get buffer.shar quit Connect to sunsite.unc.edu and send back the file buffer.shar to lmjm@doc.ic.ac.uk open src.doc.ic.ac.uk cd graphics/X11/X.V11R5 get ls-lR.Z cd ../contrib compress ls -ltra quit Connect to src.doc.ic.ac.uk, send back the file ls-lR.Z in graphics/X11/X.V11R5. As this is a binary file it has to be transfered in binary mode. Because it is binary it will automatically be uuencoded (the default binary encoder). Then change to ../contrib and mail back a compressed directory listing. Although compressing ls output makes it binary, which then has to be encoded, it still ends up smaller than the original. open cd graphics/X11/X.V11R5/fixes get fix-08 get fix-09 get sunGX.uu quit Retrieve some recent X fixes open cd gnu atob mode binary get emacs-18.57.tar.Z quit --=-- FAQ's, news articles and miscellaneous information for rec.gardens is available via FTP, WAIS, GOPHER and FTPMAIL from: sunsite.unc.edu FTP: /pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/newsgroups/recgardens Put incoming files (FAQ updates, etc.) in: /pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/incoming WAIS: telnet sunsite.unc.edu Login: swais Enter terminal emulation (vt100) enter /sustain when first page of sources comes up GOPHER: telnet sunsite.unc.edu Login: gopher Enter terminal emulation (vt100) go to: sunsite archives sustainable agriculture information browse sustainable agriculture information sustainable agriculture recgardens For more information contact: Lawrence London london@sunSITE.unc.edu - List of available newsgroups and mailing lists of interest: ----------------------------------------------------------- [I will list the host system (i.e. mailing list server site address, mailing list name, and newsgroup name that it's gated to, if at all] Mailing Lists: -------------- almanac@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu sustag-public@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu alt.sustainable.agriculture [sanet-mg is gated read-only to this newsgroup _not_ to the mailing list] almanac@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu sanet-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu (Sustainable Agriculture Network mail group) almanac@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu sustag-principles@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu Usenet Newsgroups: ------------------ alt.sustainable.agriculture alt.agriculture.misc alt.agriculture.fruit Others: rec.gardens misc.rural alt.folklore.herbs alt.co-evolution sci.bio sci.bio.ecology sci.geo.geology sci.geo.meteorology bionet plants bionet mycology bionet photosynthesis bionet cellbiology bionet general bionet.agroforestry bionet.n2-fixation bionet.biology.tropical alt.housing.nontrad sci.energy -soon to come- alt.architecture.alternative alt.energy.renewable Other mailing lists: -------------------- >From almanac@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu: renew-energy [Renewable Energy] nc-solar NAT_MED [Natural Medicine] ENV_RES [Environmental Resources] simple-lifestyle -soon to come- alt-arch [gated R/W to alt.architecture.alternative] All of these mailing lists, articles in the newsgroups listed, FAQs and other information are archived at sunSITE.unc.edu and are accesable by GOPHER, ftp, telnet, e-mail, Gopher, WAIS & FTPMAIL. --=-- For more information contact: Lawrence London london@sunSITE.unc.edu ftp directories at sunSITE.unc.edu: /pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture /pub/academic/environment/alternative-energy/miscellaneous /pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/miscellaneous Home phone: 1-919-933-4577 FidoNet address: 1:151/502, EARTH*Net BBS, Host: Sustainable Agriculture conference (tagname: SUST_AG, on FidoNet Backbone) --=OR=-- Paul Jones Paul_Jones@unc.edu Office for Information Technology University of North Carolina Chapel, Hill, N.C. 1-919-962-9911 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!news Wed Nov 10 13:59:26 EST 1993 Article: 220 of triangle.gardens Newsgroups: triangle.gardens Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!news From: SJGALLA@STEVEG.RALEIGH.IBM.COM Subject: Re: Compost Worms? Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 13:30:45 GMT Lines: 9 Reply-To: SGALLAGHER@RTP.VNET.IBM.COM Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM. References: <2bmsm9$7fq@inxs.concert.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: steveg.raleigh.ibm.com Organization: LAN Interconnect Product group, RTP NC X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.00 In <2bmsm9$7fq@inxs.concert.net>, tcheek@rock.concert.net (Terry T Cheek -- Family Health International -- ScientificSupportSvc) writes: >You need add nothing if the compost heap is in contact with the earth - >just turn and water. Ah, there's the problem: I have this stuff sitting in a wide plastic utility tub ( the kind you haul manure in). For various reasons ( primarily revolving around "the neighbors" etc ) I don't want to just plop this pile on the ground...