From leonard.adolph@totembbs.com Tue Aug 9 22:30:47 EDT 1994 Article: 40176 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!iat.holonet.net!totembbs!leonard.adolph From: leonard.adolph@totembbs.com (Leonard Adolph) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Rat in Yard Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 17:27:00 GMT Message-ID: <9408020207365256@totembbs.com> Organization: The Totem Pole BBS (810) 238-1178 Distribution: world Lines: 14 On 07-27-94 09:00, John Brookes mentioned All's tale about: Rat in Yard JB> I am concerned that my dog will eat the rat when I am gone. I want to JB> get rid of rat, but poisons and traps are out of question because of JB> their effect on dog. JB> Any other rat-repelling strategies I can use? Get a piece of plastic pipe that will allow a rat trap to function but is too small for the dog to enter. Set a trap in the pipe and put the pipe where the rat will find it. If you don't want the dog to kill the rat then you must do it. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20f Beta From dak@gandalf.rutgers.edu Tue Aug 9 22:33:44 EDT 1994 Article: 40601 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!gandalf.rutgers.edu!dak From: dak@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Dorothy Klein) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Rat in Yard Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 94 17:57:43 GMT References: <9408020207365256@totembbs.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 50 leonard.adolph@totembbs.com (Leonard Adolph) writes: >On 07-27-94 09:00, John Brookes mentioned All's tale about: >Rat in Yard > JB> I am concerned that my dog will eat the rat when I am gone. I want to > JB> get rid of rat, but poisons and traps are out of question because of > JB> their effect on dog. > JB> Any other rat-repelling strategies I can use? >Get a piece of plastic pipe that will allow a rat trap to function but >is too small for the dog to enter. Set a trap in the pipe and put the >pipe where the rat will find it. If you don't want the dog to kill >the rat then you must do it. But keep the Humane Society and any bleeding-heart idiotic animal lovers out of it... (following is excerpted from the Newark (NJ) Star Ledger, Aug 5, 1994, p.3, byline Stacy Y. China, "Lawmakers rush to the defense of man charged with killing rat" -- this story had recieved full Silly Season press coverage in NJ) "(Frank) Balun, 69, became a celebrity for attempting to keep his tomato bushes free of rodents. [...] He borrowed a squirrel trap from a neighbor and caught a rat two days later. Because he was too squeamish to remove the rat himself, Balun called the Humane Society to come and get it. While he was waiting, the rat pushed its head through a one-inch hole and 'looked like it was going to escape,' he said. Balun hit the rat with a broom handle to subdue it and the rodent was dead when the Humane Society representative arrived. Two days later, Balun went to the Humane Society's Newark office to retrieve his neighbor's trap, but Executive Director Lee Bernstein impounded it and gave Balun a civil and criminal summons [ charge is 'needlessly abusing a rodent by hitting it while in a trap and killing the animal' -- possibly $1250 in fines and 6 months in jail!] [...] If [the rat] had been alive, Bernstein said, the rat would have been released in a nature environment or killed by lethal injection. " Yes, the "nature environment" is a direct quote. I've seen it this way in several papers' reports, and I can't believe all the reporters are that hazy on grammar. What Mr. Bernstein believes is a "nature environment" for a rat, and whether he'd have the permission of the rat's new human neighbors for its release, has not yet been reported. The health officers, neighbors, and municipal officials want to give Balun a medal for killing the pest. Court date is Aug. 24. Dotty Klein From djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com Tue Aug 9 22:34:17 EDT 1994 Article: 40861 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!overload.lbl.gov!ames!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsj!cbnewsi!cbnewsh!cbnewse!cbnewsd!cbnewsc!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) Subject: Re: Rat in Yard Message-ID: Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T References: <9408020207365256@totembbs.com> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 15:44:00 GMT Lines: 11 >But keep the Humane Society and any bleeding-heart idiotic animal lovers >out of it... I agree that the Humane Society suing over a dead rat is absurb, but I think it is also wrong to judge the Humane Society overall based on this one mistake. Remember, before the Humane Society came along, the Chicago meat packing industry dispatched hogs by dipping them, alive, in boiling water. I don't think anyone want to return to those "good old days". Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio From steph@clark.net Tue Aug 9 22:35:08 EDT 1994 Article: 40194 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!steph From: steph@clark.net (Stephanie Faul) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Subject: Re: Bat houses? Followup-To: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Date: 2 Aug 1994 14:22:44 GMT Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA Lines: 13 Message-ID: <31lkrk$ofp@clarknet.clark.net> References: <3173fo$al4@ccnet.ccnet.com> <17002C750S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <31jbu6$6jp@clarknet.clark.net> <31k812$jbe@deathstar.cris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clark.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:40194 misc.consumers.house:60807 I spoke with a woman from the Bat Conservation Society (I have their address etc. here *somewhere* and if you really want I'll find it), who said that in her opinion bat houses didn't work very well; apparently the bats are fussy creatures. OTOH, many places sell them and they aren't all that expensive, so it'd be worth a try. The Wild Bird Center here in Washington sells plans for a make-it-yourself bat house and will mail them to you; they're in directory assistance. I wanted to put a bat house up around here but I don't have any place it would fit (I have a very small yard). What bats really like are disused chimneys and the like; they overwinter in caves and other similar places, so said the Bat Woman. From bsmith@beorn Tue Aug 9 22:36:31 EDT 1994 Article: 40240 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!marsupial.jpl.nasa.gov!beorn!bsmith From: bsmith@beorn (Bruce Graham Smith) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Subject: Re: Bat houses? Followup-To: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Date: 2 Aug 1994 18:25:11 GMT Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory Lines: 32 Message-ID: <31m327$32k@marsupial.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <3173fo$al4@ccnet.ccnet.com> <17002C750S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <31jbu6$6jp@clarknet.clark.net> <31k812$jbe@deathstar.cris.com>,<31lkrk$ofp@clarknet.clark.net> <1994Aug2.172454.1445@blaze.trentu.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: beorn.jpl.nasa.gov X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:40240 misc.consumers.house:60854 Ray Gonder (rgonder@TrentU.CA) wrote: : In article <31lkrk$ofp@clarknet.clark.net>, steph@clark.net (Stephanie Faul) writes: : >I spoke with a woman from the Bat Conservation Society (I have their : >address etc. here *somewhere* and if you really want I'll find it) : I would appreciate that address very much. : Thank you in advance : Ray >From a post a few weeks ago (I don't remember who posted it): > For great information on bats and bat houses contact the following places: > > Brookfield Zoo > Chicago Zoological Society > Brookfield, Illinois 60513 > > Animal Adventures > P.O. Box 21364 > Eagan, MN 55121 > (Include a self addressed stamped envelope with 3 stamps, 29 cents, on it) > > Excellent info can be had by sending a "small" donation to: > > Bat Conservation International > PO Box 162603 > Austin, TX 78716 > Graham From steph@clark.net Tue Aug 9 22:36:39 EDT 1994 Article: 40243 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!steph From: steph@clark.net (Stephanie Faul) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Subject: Re: Bat houses? Followup-To: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Date: 2 Aug 1994 19:25:54 GMT Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA Lines: 5 Message-ID: <31m6k2$o0m@clarknet.clark.net> References: <3173fo$al4@ccnet.ccnet.com> <17002C750S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <31jbu6$6jp@clarknet.clark.net> <31k812$jbe@deathstar.cris.com>,<31lkrk$ofp@clarknet.clark.net> <1994Aug2.172454.1445@blaze.trentu.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: clark.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:40243 misc.consumers.house:60857 The address for the American Bat Conservation Society is PO Box 1393, Rockville, MD 20849. Their phone number is 301-309-6610. They seem very helpful. From stes@wcsn.csms.com Tue Aug 9 22:38:00 EDT 1994 Article: 40434 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!wshb!wcsn!stes From: stes@wcsn.csms.com (Robert Stes Stessel WCSN Manager) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Subject: Re: Bat houses? Summary: Bat Conservation International Bat Book Message-ID: <910@wcsn.csms.com> Date: 3 Aug 94 21:06:50 GMT References: <3173fo$al4@ccnet.ccnet.com> <31lkrk$ofp@clarknet.clark.net> Followup-To: misc.consumer.house Organization: WCSN, Herald Broadcasting Synidicate, Inc. Lines: 23 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:40434 misc.consumers.house:61036 Bat Conservation International P.O. Box 162603 Austin TX 78716 512-327-9721 Excellent Book availible from them: Merlin D. Tuttle...America's Neighborhood Bats...ISBN 0-292-70406-2 Lots of information debunking Batmyths, info on houses & colonies, identifying species, 4 page bibliography. WCSN...Monitor Radio International Scotts Corners, MAINE, USA Robert L. Stessel, Station Manager We have bats and they are no problem to us. From joeldi@aol.com Tue Aug 9 22:39:13 EDT 1994 Article: 40663 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: joeldi@aol.com (JoelDi) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Bat houses? Date: 6 Aug 1994 09:55:03 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 14 Sender: root@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <3204nn$8pl@search01.news.aol.com> References: <9550@heimdall.sdrc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com I have had 2 bat houses up for about 3 years. They were from a design from Bat Conservation International, their smallest house. This year we finally had a bat in one. I think they have a new book, called "The Bat House Builder's Handbook" or something like that. It describes what has worked well for people and what doesn't matter. As I recall, painting didn't seem to make much of a difference, nor did spreading guano on them. There are also several new designs in it. BCI can be reached at: P.O. Box 162603 Austin, TX 78716 Joel DiGirolamo digirol@lexmark.com From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Tue Aug 9 22:41:01 EDT 1994 Article: 40784 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!ddsw1!news.kei.com!ub!newserve!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Bat houses? Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 07:57:53 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 27 Message-ID: <1700C7003S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> References: <9550@heimdall.sdrc.com> <3204nn$8pl@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu In article kghess@wheel.ucdavis.edu (Katherine Hess) writes: >We made a bat house a couple of years ago. For months, it was sitting on >the ground. As might be expected, no bats. (Lots of black widows, but >they're all over in the Sacramento Valley) Our house is attached on the >east-side, so we didn't have a east eave to mount it on. It was attached >to the east side of a trellis for quite a while, but didn't attract >anything but more spiders. Like a good restaurant, it's location, location, location. As I understand it, and I'm no expert, the 'best' location for a bat house is one that raises the temperatures in the late afternoon. The late afternoon sun gets the bats warmed up for their evening bug feast. Another factor to consider in locating a bat house is noise pollution, or so I have read. Supposedly bats like it quiet. Although I saw Traffic at an open air theater (Saratoga Performing Arts Center) last week and along with a fantastic show, I really enjoyed watching the bats pick out insects that were attracted to the stage lights. So much for liking quiet! Perhaps the bats had ear plugs? I've had a bat house up for two years (western exposure but near a busy street). Still don't know if it's inhabited or not, as it's too high to easily check. The guano thread gives me the idea to check for droppings, which will be easy enough. I can't testyify whether guano attracts other bats or not, although I'm sceptical. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! From cchubb@ida.org Tue Aug 9 22:44:07 EDT 1994 Article: 40239 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!proto.ida.org!news From: cchubb@ida.org (Chris Chubb) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Subject: Re: Bat houses? Date: 2 Aug 1994 18:30:40 GMT Organization: IDA, but all opinions are my own. Lines: 47 Message-ID: <31m3cg$o4k@dmsoproto.ida.org> References: <3173fo$al4@ccnet.ccnet.com> <17002C750S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <31jbu6$6jp@clarknet.clark.net> <31k812$jbe@deathstar.cris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cchubb-pc.ida.org X-Newsreader: WinVN version 0.82 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:40239 misc.consumers.house:60853 In article <31k812$jbe@deathstar.cris.com>, Lrobbins@deathstar.cris.com (Lloyd Robbins) says: >>Bats are big mosquito-eaters, and harmless in almost every other way. AND HOW! >Speaking of bats, I once saw a ad in a house magazine for a bat house. Since >we've been invaded by mosquitos this year, I'm toying with the >idea of making a bat house. Anyone have any experience with them? Plans? A bat house that my Dad got for his country place is contructed like this: It is a box, closed on all sides except the bottom. It is about 24 inches wide, about 12 inches deep and about 18 inches high. The box is 1/2 inch exterior plywood on the five sides, and 1/4 inch plywood on the inside slats. The top (is top, the closed end) is roughened by a few deep gouges, made with a circular saw blade, each about 1/8" wide, 1/4" deep and about 1/8 inch apart. There are 5 or 6 (I forget) slats inside, all in parallel, reaching about 3/4 of the way down the box. These have all been roughened by horizontal saw kerfs as well. Side view: ============= | | | | | ^ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 18" | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \/ <--- 12" ---> The box should be hung near the house but out of driving weather and away from high or moderate trafic areas. Up in hearby trees and under the eaves of a far corner of the house are good. Bats look for new sleeping spots during the fall, so now would be a great time to put one up. It is amazing how many bats come out at disk, and how many bugs they eat. We will get over 20 bats working for 2-3 hours as the light wanes, and the decrease in mosquitos is noticable. From rlimpert@access3.digex.net Tue Aug 9 22:52:17 EDT 1994 Article: 40349 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!access3!rlimpert From: rlimpert@access3.digex.net (Roland Limpert) Newsgroups: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Subject: Re: Bat houses? Followup-To: rec.gardens,misc.consumers.house Date: 3 Aug 1994 17:38:54 GMT Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Lines: 32 Message-ID: <31okne$k10@news1.digex.net> References: <3173fo$al4@ccnet.ccnet.com> <17002C750S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <31jbu6$6jp@clarknet.clark.net> <31k812$jbe@deathstar.cris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: access3.digex.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:40349 misc.consumers.house:60979 : Speaking of bats, I once saw a ad in a house magazine for a bat house. Since : we've been invaded by mosquitos this year, I'm toying with the : idea of making a bat house. Anyone have any experience with them? Plans? : Thanks : Lloyd Robbins : lrobbins@cris.com : "Managing programmers is like herding cats." Recent research done at Penn State University has found that the temperature gradient in the box is very important in making the box attractive to bats (bats like it warm). Also, boxes are not very good at attracting bats into areas where they are not already roosting. They found that if bats were already roosting in say your attic, a box put up on a nearby tree or building was much more likely to be used than the same box at site that did not have roosting bats. This means that boxes can be used to keep bats in an area if a homeowner wants to exclude them from their attic but not from their property. The box should be put up while the bats present as they do explore new roost sites. Any excluding of bats should be done after the young are capable of flying, you do not want to seal up any bats. The Pennsylvania work was funded by their Game Commission and they may have a publication. I do not have their address but they are located in Harrisburg, PA. Good Luck. Roland From anderson@doit.wisc.edu Tue Aug 9 22:53:43 EDT 1994 Article: 40834 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!nntp.msstate.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!news.doit.wisc.edu!anderson From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Bat houses? Date: 9 Aug 1994 00:48:43 GMT Organization: Division of Information Technology, UW-Madison Lines: 25 Message-ID: <326jpb$158@news.doit.wisc.edu> References: <326bsm$q10@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM> Reply-To: anderson@doit.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) NNTP-Posting-Host: jsbach.macc.wisc.edu In article <326bsm$q10@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>, wrote, a mite too imperiously, I thought: >> bat guano >"Guano" is from *birds*. Mammals *shit*. I betook myself to the online Webster, where I found: gua-no [Sp, fr. Quechua huanu dung] a substance composed chiefly of the excrement of seafowl and used as a fertilizer; also: a similar substance (as bat excrement or cannery waste) esp. when used for fertilizer -- <> One cannot build life from refrigerators, politics, credit <> statements and crossword puzzles. That is impossible. Nor <> can one exist for any length of time without poetry, without <> color, without love. <> -- Antoine de St.-Exupery -- Opinions expressed herein have no connection with the UW-Madison. Jess Anderson anderson@doit.wisc.edu From Moira_Carlson@mindlink.bc.ca Fri Aug 26 22:01:51 EDT 1994 Article: 42056 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!deep.rsoft.bc.ca!mindlink.bc.ca!a8331 From: Moira_Carlson@mindlink.bc.ca (Moira Carlson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: herb books Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 14:24:46 -0700 Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 75 Distribution: world Message-ID: <52139@mindlink.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: mindlink.bc.ca In article <1994Aug22.103207.17050@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, stlouins@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: > > Msg-ID: <1994Aug22.103207.17050@cnsvax.uwec.edu> > References: <3319vp$m3j@search01.news.aol.com> > Posted: 22 Aug 94 10:32:07 -0600 > > Org. : University of Wisconsin Eau Claire > > In article <3319vp$m3j@search01.news.aol.com>, ckirkg@aol.com (CkirkG) > writes: > > I have purchased a home with a tremendous herb garden. Being somewhat > > herb illiterate, I am seeking a good illustrated reference book or two. > > Suggestions? > > > > I would also love ideas on using herbs as gifts. > > > > J. G. > > One of my favorites because it's a good quick reference is Martha E. > Kraska, > _Herbs_ (New York: Prentice Hall Gardening, 1992); it's one of the Burpee > American Gardening Series, $8.00 on my copy, though that may have changed > in two years. Not encyclopedic, by any means, but it does give a quick > over- > view of a wide range of herbs and their cultivation needs, as well as > asstd. > uses for them, a short section on pests and diseases (tho that part > hasn't > been as helpful), a few FAQ. > > Dina You need to know which herbs to use -which are safe and so on, but after you have read the books and are pretty clear on that sort of thing... A few gift ideas.... 1) A collection of dried culinary herbs -in nicely labeled baggies or jam jars or some such -presentation is the key. 2) Sleep pillows 3) Herb Teas -single herbs or make up some mixes -go to the store and get an idea of what folks are using in the commercial mixes. 4. Specialty herb mixes: For example an "Italian Seasoning Mix" or a mix of herbs that could be added to a simple oil and vinegar salad dressing to make it really terrific. 5. Bath bags -cheesecloth bags full of bath herbs/oatmeal/powdered milk. (For a larger gift, it is pretty easy to turn this sort of thing in to "a kit". How about a book to read in the bath, incense, etc.etc.) 6. Potpourri and sachets. Sachets can be sweet smelling (lavendar is the classic), but can also be made up for other purposes -for example using some of the herbs with insect repelling properties. (come to think of it lavendar has that reputation too)...or how about a catnip sachet for the kitty? 7. Herb vinegars are easy to make. 8. Wreaths or other dried arrangements. 9. Herbal liqueurs and/or homemade wines...a little bottle of homemade peppermint liqueur perhaps... In all of the above, presentation is important. One jam jar is uninteresting, but 6 identical jam jars full of different culinary herbs all nicely labeled and presented is a lovely gift. Just a bit of ribbon or lace or a nice material can add a lot to a sachet or sleep pillow. Hope this helps. Moira From wtmorgan@pilotM.msu.edu Fri Aug 26 22:03:54 EDT 1994 Article: 41849 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!NewsWatcher!user From: wtmorgan@pilotM.msu.edu (W.T. Morgan) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: The Wasp and the Spider Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: 19 Aug 1994 12:48:51 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 44 Message-ID: References: <32anb3$jrq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <3304md$6j4@rand.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 35.8.202.24 In article <3304md$6j4@rand.org>, downes@spock.rand.org (Trijntje (Trink) Downes) wrote: > > 'Couple of days ago I heard a buzzing sound coming from my neighbor's > driveway and wandered over to see what was up. It was a standard wasp > (about 1.5" long and solid yellow/orange - in relation to a yellow > jacket which would be 1" long with yellow stripes - or do I have that > reversed?) in the process of killing a ciccada. Now there's one for > you: two bugs I don't want around fighting with each other. I must say > the wasp was pretty ruthless and won in the end. I supose the only > good that came from this is that it got me thinking to look for wasps > in the area and found a hole in my lawn that clearly is a nest (the > good part being that I found it before hubby mowed over it). I suppose > it is now time to seal 'em up in their little tomb. Anyone know how > long I need to leave the hole corked up before I can safely remove the > plug and fill with dirt? > > Trink You may be wasting your time & effort for 3 reasons. 1) The wasp you saw was a cicada killer, a type of digger wasp. It will probably be able to dig out again even if you do seal it in. B) These are solitary wasps which only dig the holes as rearing chambers for the larvae, provisioning them with the cicadas. They spend most of their time away from the burrow, so you may seal in nothing. iii) Despite their large size and fearsome appearance, these ground-nesting wasps (And other non-social wasps and bees) are very mellow. Unlike social wasps and bees, they are almost completely non-aggressive (you pretty much have to pick one up and squeeze it in order to force it to sting you). Mowing over the burrows is no danger (a good thing, since you undoubtedly do this all the time without even knowing it.) If on the other hand, you were to try to seal off a burrow for a ground nesting *social* wasp or bee (yellowjackets, bumble bees), you would not only fail to solve a problem, but could put yourself at considerable risk in the process. Also remember every cicada killer burrow this year is many fewer cicada burrows next. BTW, I understand people being afraid of large wasps that appear menacing, even if they are harmless. It is a hard reaction to overcome. But what do you have against the cicadas? :-) From upressva@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU Fri Aug 26 22:07:54 EDT 1994 Article: 42447 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens,triangle.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!koriel!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!poe.acc.Virginia.EDU!upressva From: upressva@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (university press of virginia) Subject: Re: Mail Order Plants Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: uva References: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 16:57:40 GMT Lines: 11 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:42447 triangle.gardens:949 May I interject that there's an interesting paperback guide out called *Gardening by Mail*? I believe the author is Barbara Barton, and that the book is updated annually. It's cross-referenced by type of merchandise and by geographical location. Last winter while the weather was really horrible I lost my head, went through the book and ordered everything in a million-mile radius, and was swamped with garden porn for weeks. A real shot in the arm. Boyd Zenner Charlottesville, VA (zone 7) From rain@atug.org Sat Sep 17 12:13:28 EDT 1994 Article: 43491 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!iglou!atug.org!rain Subject: Re: Fragrant Plants - Help Newsgroups: rec.gardens From: rain@atug.org Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 03:23:18 EST Message-ID: <24301XOJLOFTUIDWKJY@atug.org> Organization: Assistive Technology Users' Group Lines: 10 to: kk@wujek.durham.nc.us . And don't forget common moonflower, which has huge (5-6"), elegant white flowers and a luscious Easter-lily fragrance, and is as easy to grow as ordinary morning glory if you chip/soak seeds before planting. The flowers open around dusk, all at once, like watching time-lapse photography, and mine stay open till well into the next morning. Burpee has seeds if you can't find 'em elsewhere, and they're not expensive. One of my very favorite fragrant plants. From upressva@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU Sat Sep 17 12:13:32 EDT 1994 Article: 43519 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!poe.acc.Virginia.EDU!upressva From: upressva@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (university press of virginia) Subject: Re: Fragrant Plants - Help Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: uva References: <-090994111154@129.105.43.83> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 21:31:27 GMT Lines: 13 Viburnum carlesii is richly fragrant: it will knock your socks off in the spring. If you live in a warm enough climate (zone 7 and below, I think), daphnes smell wonderful and are attractive, though not really hedge material. And have you considered rugosa roses? They make very nice hedges, have attractive flowers, and can be very fragrant. For smallish trees, think about magnolia stellata (or magnolia grandiflora, for a larger tree in a southern climate) and hawthorn. Hope this is helpful. Boyd Zenner Charlottesville, VA From saouc@uccmvsa.bitnet Sat Sep 17 12:15:23 EDT 1994 Article: 43662 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!usenet From: saouc@uccmvsa.bitnet Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Fragrant Plants - long list Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 13:57:13 PDT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 133 Message-ID: <352fo1$pn2@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <-090994111154@129.105.43.83> NNTP-Posting-Host: largo.ucop.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage > From: @ils.nwu.edu (Sandra Burke) > Newsgroups: rec.gardens > Subject: Fragrant Plants - Help > Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 11:11:54 -0600 > I am looking to planting shrubs etc in my garden and am interested in > planting shrubs etc that have fragrant foliage or flowers. So far I have > planted honeysuckles, Miss Kim Lilac and MockOrange. Do any of you have > any other suggestions? I hear that certain viburnums are fragrant i.e. > Carlesi and Woodwordi (not sure of spelling). How fragrant are they and do > they make good hedges. Any info on fragrant plants would be much > appreciated. Sandra - Not real detailed, but I thought you (and others) might find this list of fragrant plant to be useful (certainly not very complete, but it is what I have handy from my plant database): ? L UNN Abelia triflora Agastache foeniculum ANISE HYSSOP Allium neopolitanum grandiflorum Amaryllis belladonna NAKED LADY Aquilegia viridiflora Bouvardia longiflora `Albatross' Brugmansia candida ANGEL'S TRUMPET Brugmansia sanguinea Buddleia alternifolia FOUNTAIN BUTTERFLY BUSH Buddleia asiatica WINTER FLOWERING LILAC Cercidiphyllum japonicum JAPANESE KATSURA TREE Cestrum diurnum DAY JESSAMINE Cestrum nocturnum NIGHT BLOOMING JESSAMINE Cestrum parqui WILLOW LEAVED JESSAMINE Chrysanthemum balsamita COSTMARY Clematis montana alba Clematis montana rubens Clematis recta Clerodendrum bungei Clethra alnifolia SUMMERSWEET Convallaria majalis LILY OF THE VALLEY Crinum asiaticum POISON BULB Cyrtanthus mackenii Daphne xburkwoodii `Somerset' Daphne genkwa Daphne odora Daphne odora `Rubra' Dennstaedtia punctilobula HAY SCENTED FERN Dianthus superbus Dolichos lignosus Echinacea purpurea `White Swan' Endymion non-scriptus ENGLISH BLUEBELLS Eucalyptus citriodora LEMON SCENTED GUM Eucharis grandiflora AMAZON LILY Eucryphia xnymansensis `Nymansay' Ferraria undulata Freesia (tecolote) `Talisman' Gladiolus tristis Hemerocallis `Happy Returns' Hemerocallis dumortieri Hermannia verticillata HONEY BELLS Hermodactylus tuberosa WIDOW IRIS, SNAKES HEAD IRIS Hosta `Royal Standard' Hosta plantaginea Hyacinthus azureus albus Iris aucheri JUNO GROUP Iris bucharica Iris hoogiana REGELIA IRIS Iris reticulata `J. S. Dyt' Jasminum xstephanense J. BEESIANUM x OFFICINALE Jasminum beesianum ROSE JASMINE Jasminum polyanthum PINK JASMINE, FRENCH PERFUME Knautia arvensis FIELD SCABIOUS Lachenalia glaucina Lathyrus nervosus LORD ANSON'S BLUE PEA Lilium candidum MADONNA LILY Lonicera japonica `Aureo-Reticulata' Lonicera periclymenum `Serotina' Lonicera sempervirens sulphura Lonicera syringantha `Grandiflora' Mentha requienii CORSICAN MINT Michelia doltsopa Michelia figo BANANA SHRUB Muscari armeniacum `Cantab' Myrtus communis variegata Narcissus xodorus Narcissus gracilis Narcissus tazetta lacticolor Osmanthus delavayi Osmanthus fragrans aurantiacus Pancratium maritimum SEA DAFFODIL Pelargonium capitatum ATTAR OF ROSES SCENTED GERANIUM Pelargonium crispum LEMON SCENTED GERANIUM Pelargonium fragrans NUTMEG SCENTED GERANIUM Pelargonium graveolens ROSE SCENTED GERANIUM Pelargonium grossularioides COCONUT SCENTED GERANIUM Pelargonium nervosum LIME SCENTED GERANIUM Pelargonium odoratissimum APPLE SCENTED GERANIUM Pelargonium tomentosum PEPPERMINT SCENTED GERANIUM Philadelphus xpurpureo-maculatus `Belle Etoile' Philadelphus coronarius `Aureus' Philadelphus karvinskyanus EVERGREEN MOCKORANGE Philadelphus lewisii califorincus `Goose Creek' Philadelphus mexicanus flora pleNA Primula auricula AURICULA, BEAR'S EAR Prostanthera mellisifolia Rosa xdupontii ROSA MOSCHATA x GALLICA Rosa farreri persetosa Rosa foetida Rosa foliolosa Salvia clevelandii CLEVELAND'S SAGE Salvia repens repens Schizopetalon walkeri Stewartia pseudocamellia JAPANESE STEWARTIA Stewartia sinensis Syringa microphylla `Superba' Tagetes lemmonii BUSH MARIGOLD Tagetes lucida MEXICAN TARRAGON Teucrium marum CAT GERMANDER Trachelospermum majus Tulipa celsiana Tulipa saxatilis Tulipa sylvestris Viburnum carlesii `Aurora' Viola alba `Lady Hume Campbell' PARMA VIOLET Wisteria floribunda alba Wisteria sinensis `Caroline' Sean A. O'Hara, 710 Jean St., Oakland, Ca. 94610-1459 saouc@uccmvsa.ucop.edu or sean.ohara@ucop.edu From saouc@uccmvsa.bitnet Sat Sep 17 12:15:43 EDT 1994 Article: 43681 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!usenet From: saouc@uccmvsa.bitnet Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Fragrant Rhododendrons - source Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 14:19:37 PDT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 53 Message-ID: <352hgf$pn2@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <9409111244.AA23915@im4.lcs.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: largo.ucop.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage > From: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) > Subject: Re: Fragrant Plants - Help > Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 08:44:27 EDT > X-To: rec.gardens.usenet@decwrl.dec.com > In article: <-090994111154@129.105.43.83> @ils.nwu.edu (Sandra Burke) asks: > >I am looking to planting shrubs etc in my garden and am interested in > >planting shrubs etc that have fragrant foliage or flowers. > > If you can find them in a nursery, try one of these native azaleas. > Unlike the Japanese azaleas, they are very fragrant: > > Rhododendron nudiflorum - Pinxter-flower > Rhododendrum roseum - Early azalea. > > The first grows wild in damp places in southern New England west to IL > or so and south to TN. The second grows in dry places in approximately > the same range. > > --Jill Sandra & Jill - It just so happens that both of these shrubs are in the Heronswood Nursery catalog. Please note their synonyms: Rhododendron periclymenoides (R. nudiflorum) - Pinxter-Flower. Flowers in spring with clusters of small, fragant pale pink trumpets on a deciduous shrub to 6ft. Rhododendron prinophyllum (R. roseum) - Clove scented bright pink flowers in late spring. Shrub to 4ft. Rhododendron prinophyllum 'Album' - white form of the above. Dan Hinkley (Heronswood's proprietor) also list as fragrant the following: Rhododendron oblongifolium Rhododendron vaseyi Rhododendron vaseyi 'Alba' BTW - here is the info to get a catalog: Heronswood Nursery, Ltd., 7538 288th Street NE, Kingston, WA 98346 - catalog cost $3 but is well worth it as it is a useful and entertaining reference of a wide variety of very beautiful and unusual plants. I have friend who have ordered plants merely on the basis of Mr. Hinkley's amusing descriptions! Also, tell Dan 'Hi!' from my as he has been very kind in the past and I'd like him to know that I return the favor! Sean A. O'Hara, 710 Jean St., Oakland, Ca. 94610-1459 saouc@uccmvsa.ucop.edu or sean.ohara@ucop.edu From jennings@rain.org Sat Sep 17 12:15:47 EDT 1994 Article: 43744 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.cic.net!ddsw1!redstone.interpath.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.org!rain.org!not-for-mail From: jennings@rain.org (Everett Jennings) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Fragrant Plants - Help Date: 13 Sep 1994 08:23:52 -0700 Organization: RAIN Network Lines: 9 Message-ID: <354g68$o4d@rain.org> References: <9409111244.AA23915@im4.lcs.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: rain.org X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Dick and Jill Miller (dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu) wrote: : In article: <-090994111154@129.105.43.83> @ils.nwu.edu (Sandra Burke) asks: : >I am looking to planting shrubs etc in my garden and am interested in : >planting shrubs etc that have fragrant foliage or flowers. You might consider shrub roses -- not just the rugosas (though they're great) but some of the other modern shrub roses: the "Austins," and the older Hybrid Musks. Good, continuous blooming, healthy plants that are big producers of fragrant blooms Jeri Collari From dchang@iacd.honeywell.com Sat Sep 17 12:15:53 EDT 1994 Article: 43767 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!eng.iac.honeywell.com!dchang From: dchang@ws36.iac.honeywell.com (Deanna Chang) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Fragrant Plants - Help Followup-To: rec.gardens Date: 13 Sep 1994 19:59:24 GMT Organization: Honeywell Industrial Automation and Control Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3550as$17e@adm09.iac.honeywell.com> Reply-To: dchang@iacd.honeywell.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ws36.iac.honeywell.com I did not see the original post so if I am off in my response please forgive me. In Hawaii there are a lot of jasmine plants (pikake) which is used to make leis. It smells wonderful! The Chinese put the dried flower in teas. The flower is small and white. (But it is not the 'Star Jasmine'). I will look up the official name if anyone is interested. Originally, I thought that it would have a hard time growing here in Arizona that I grow my in doors. This is rather difficult since jasmine is more of a vine than a shrub. So I had to keep cutting it back. But I have heard that they do well out doors in the shade. So I will try moving it out doors when the weather cools. From amintel@nic.cerf.net Sat Sep 17 12:16:01 EDT 1994 Article: 43922 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!amintel From: amintel@nic.cerf.net (Christopher Green) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Fragrant Plants - Help Date: 15 Sep 1994 20:43:26 GMT Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Lines: 31 Sender: C Green Message-ID: <35able$ei8@news.cerf.net> References: <3550as$17e@adm09.iac.honeywell.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net Summary: Pikake = Arabian Jasmine = Jasminum sambac, small shrub In article <3550as$17e@adm09.iac.honeywell.com> dchang@iacd.honeywell.com writes: >I did not see the original post so if I am >off in my response please forgive me. > >In Hawaii there are a lot of jasmine plants (pikake) >which is used to make leis. It smells wonderful! [snip] It certainly does. IMHO, the best scent of all jasmines, second only to plumeria among scented plants. Pikake is the same thing as Arabian Jasmine, _Jasminum_sambac_. > >Originally, I thought that it would have a hard >time growing here in Arizona that I grow my in doors. >This is rather difficult since jasmine is more of >a vine than a shrub. So I had to keep cutting it back. >But I have heard that they do well out doors in >the shade. So I will try moving it out doors >when the weather cools. Pikake is a small shrubby plant, quite unlike the vigorous vining jasmines. It could be you have one of the latter. They are hardy enough for southern California and the lower altitudes in Arizona, though they (as do many non- desert plants and even some desert natives) appreciate shade in the desert. I have one that does well in full shade in coastal southern California. Chris Green amintel@cerf.net From fletcher@prairienet.org Sat Sep 17 12:31:13 EDT 1994 Article: 43971 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!gt-news!cc.gatech.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Good book for herb gardens - reccommendations? Date: 16 Sep 1994 11:20:35 GMT Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <35bv23$310@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <35a6jm$ju@ulowell.uml.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Ron Steriti (steriti@cpe.uml.edu) wrote: : Does anyone have reccommendations for a good (beginner) : book on herb gardening? A nice starter book is _The Random House Book of Herbs_, by Roger Phillips and Nicky Foy. Good photography and interesting notes and background on the plants. -- Karen Fletcher fletcher@prairienet.org ****** Logging no computer time until it's too dark to garden... ******* The Garden Gate http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm From fletcher@prairienet.org Mon Sep 26 22:40:39 EDT 1994 Article: 44343 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Plant Identification Software II Date: 22 Sep 1994 00:36:29 GMT Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net Lines: 23 Message-ID: <35qjid$d4b@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <35poit$nao@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <35puco$clk@newsbf01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Several programs have a database feature. The one I like best is the White Flower Farm Plant library that is part of LandDesigner for Windows >from Green Thumb Software (my copy was $32 at Best Buy).. There is a simple program call Landscape and Herbaceous Plant Manager Database which lets you select according to a wide variety of characteristics. This is available on Compuserve on the Gardening Forum. I haven't found an FTP site for it. FLOWERscape by Voudette is a garden design program which allows selection of flowers by various criteria. If you are Web-enabled, check out the illustrated online review at the Garden Gate (URL below). Neat program. Has a Mac version, too. I have heard (but haven't seen) that Better Homes and Gardens (?) has a gardening CD out. No idea what the features are. -- Karen Fletcher fletcher@prairienet.org * Logging no computer time until it's too dark to garden... * ************************************************************************ The Garden Gate http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm From rappleye@felix.kodak.com Mon Sep 26 22:41:24 EDT 1994 Article: 44381 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!psinntp!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!newsserver.rdcs.Kodak.COM!Rev.Dr.Freak From: rappleye@felix.kodak.com (RevDrFreak) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Plant Identification Software II Date: 22 Sep 1994 12:37:48 GMT Organization: Eastman Kodak Company Lines: 52 Sender: -Not-Authenticated-[2849] Message-ID: <35rtqs$qv0@kodak.rdcs.Kodak.COM> References: <35poit$nao@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <35puco$clk@newsbf01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.102.161.162 X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0@kodak.rdcs.kodak.com. Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name. You know folks, this is all standard database stuff. Just set up your query based on whatever criteria you want(color, sun, water, zone, etc.) and have your answers appear. The real problem is that there is such a huge volume of data on plants that the task of buiding (and maintaining) such a database would be monumental and probably unprofitable. But enough negative talk. I did set up a database for my wife to keep track of her perennial collection (400+). It includes such things as: - common name - biological name - number(just for her use) - sun requirements - soil requirements - color - year acquired - where acquired (not all nurseries are equal, some have much better survival rates) - status(live or dead, seems stupid at first, but keep info about failed plants, if you do try it again you can always select a different variety or plant it in a different place) - location (which garden) - reference (which of her garden books has the best informnation on this plant) - a few more things that I can't think of offhand. It allows her to pull lists of plants by any criteria (which garden, which name , etc.), or to quickly identify the book which has detailed information. One of the most valuable pieces of information is the reference Identification. I'm sure most of you have more than a couple plant books on the shelf. She takes her overall listing to perennial nurseries when she's shopping for more plants, I mean you wouldn't want to buy a variety of astilbe you already had, would you? The next project will be to find a way to integrate the garden plans (currently still hand drawn) with the database. My plans have all the plant numbers listed on them, I just need to get them into a digital form and link them with the database. I'm checking out CAD SW that does parts lists as one possibility. I'd love to hear any ideas from you folks. Paul R. Rappleye Systems Engineering 716-253-6722 Voice Commercial and Government Systems 716-253-5088 FAX Eastman Kodak Company 1447 St. Paul Street e-mail: rappleye@felix.kodak.com Rochester, N.Y. 14653-7023 From rln@metasoft.UUCP Mon Sep 26 22:42:11 EDT 1994 Article: 44649 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!metasoft!rln From: rln@metasoft.UUCP (Roberta Norin) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Plant Identification Software II Message-ID: <5986@metasoft.UUCP> Date: 26 Sep 94 16:02:49 GMT References: <35poit$nao@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <35puco$clk@newsbf01.news.aol.com> Organization: Meta Software Corporation, Cambridge MA Lines: 22 >Larry, if you hear about anything, let me know too. Also, I am looking >for a program that will give you plant suggestion based upon certain >criteria. Example - Sunny, well-drained soil, flowering, shrub would be >typed in and list of plants meeting these would pop up on screen. >Probably would be a CD-ROM. Oh, and if the people from Sunset read this, >the Book would be great on CD-ROM, if it does not exist. Try Florafile for Windows from Terrace Software. It does just what you are asking for. It comes with over 600 plants and you can add your own plants. $49.00. Terrace has a similar product for the Mac where the plant selection software is combined with a landscape design program. It is called Mum's the Word Plus and its retail price is $119.00. I am the author of these two programs. Roberta Norin Terrace Software PO Box 271 Medford MA 02155 617-396-0382 rln@metasoft.com From mrbungle@netcom.com Mon Sep 26 22:44:20 EDT 1994 Article: 44568 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!mrbungle From: mrbungle@netcom.com (Brendan Light) Subject: Re: Software for plants--IT EXISTS Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <35s013$c46@balsam.unca.edu> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 18:55:24 GMT Lines: 27 I know of two above average CD-ROMS for plants, that i have and can vouch for. The first is "The Exotic Garden" from VT productions. This was a VERY hard find that I just happened to luck upon. I've never seen it in a store, anywhere. Very summary info but on many different plants. Tons of good pictures and good searching. Only drawback is that you will be surprised how many plants were not included. Even so, it is incredible. VT Productions, Inc. P.O. Box 339 Soquel, CA 95703 The second one is the Complete Guide to Gardening by Better Homes & Gardens, widely available. Again, the info is much too encapsulted, but another must have. I feel this one is aimed at the browner, less-experienced thumb, and simply won't answer those tough questions you're looking for. I know there is a demand for high level help in gardening, but enough to go to ther real effort? I'd love to hear your opinions on what SHOULD be included in a high-end gardening disk. These are just a couple of treasures I thought I'd share. mrbungle@netcom.com From mikek61462@aol.com Mon Sep 26 22:45:54 EDT 1994 Article: 44443 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mikek61462@aol.com (MikeK61462) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: House Plant Database information in ascii format Date: 22 Sep 1994 21:19:03 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 13 Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <35tae7$e30@newsbf01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com I'm looking for detailed House plant information in ascii format. Typical information would include the following information: COMMON NAME LATIN NAME PLANT FAMILY PLACE OF ORIGIN FLOWERING TIME PROPAGATION METHODS LIGHT REQUIREMENTS TEMPERATURE REQUIREMENTS SOIL REQUIREMENTS WATER REQUIREMENTS SPECIAL NOTES: From wmglover@pipeline.com Mon Sep 26 22:47:54 EDT 1994 Article: 44587 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!eff!wariat.org!malgudi.oar.net!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail From: wmglover@pipeline.com (William Glover) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Neem Trees - Publicity not always hype Date: 24 Sep 1994 20:53:41 -0400 Organization: The Pipeline Lines: 35 Message-ID: <362hml$75q@pipe1.pipeline.com> References: <9409241959.AA27007@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pipe1.pipeline.com >Does anyone know anything about Neem trees (Azadirachta indica). >Recently I have seen a lot of hype about Neem trees and how they >are a tropical evergreen tree of environmental promise... Jay Ostaffe, As the Neem is a very adaptable, fast-growing, drought-resistant, tall and handsome evergreen shade tree, it is useful for reforestation on a variety of soils. A constituent of the seed, chemically known as azadirachtin, is highly effective against virtually all chewing, biting, and sucking insects that afflict plants, e.g. aphids, whitefly, mealybugs, caterpillars. Azadirachtin is now being extracted commercially from Neem seed and marketed as a spray concentrate in North America (with EPA approval) and the UK under such trade names as Margosan-O, BioNEEM, and Neemix. Not inexpensive to date, but it does work and is innocuous (so far as yet known) to birds and mammals. The LD50 rating is >13,000. The Neem is native to the Indian subcontinent where branches long have been hung in village granaries to ward off insect predators. All parts of the tree have been used for centuries in folk medicines to treat a great many different ailments of man and beast. Sounds like the perfect plant, but in hospitable soils and climates it escapes easily and can become invasive. Probably would do well in southern Florida if not already there. Have about 20 Neem trees and would be glad to send seeds when next available to anyone furnishing a conventional mailing address. Once harvested, however, the viability of the seeds is brief. Warm regards, William Glover email: wmglover@pipeline.com Mango Corners, Jones Estate fax: 809-469-0119 NEVIS, West Indies From conradr@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca Mon Sep 26 22:48:07 EDT 1994 Article: 44603 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utgpu!conradr From: conradr@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (c. richter) Subject: Re: Neem Trees Message-ID: Organization: UTCC Public Access References: <9409241959.AA27007@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 16:21:05 GMT Lines: 14 In article <9409241959.AA27007@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com>, V381::OSTAFFE wrote: >Does anyone know anything about Neem trees (Azadirachta indica). >Recently I have seen a lot of hype about Neem trees and how they >are a tropical evergreen tree of environmental promise. I do not >know much else. Will they survive in South Florida? Are they >worth growing? Why are they considered an environmental promise? Neem does not tolerate any frost, but if large enough it will grow back from a damaging frost to some extent. There are people growing it now in FL and CA. Seeds are available from Richters at email 71550.3411@compuserve.com. From rusin@math.niu.edu Mon Sep 26 22:53:28 EDT 1994 Article: 44592 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: rusin@math.niu.edu (Dave Rusin) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Horticultural database on the net - shall we write one? Date: 24 Sep 1994 23:06:22 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 64 Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu Message-ID: <9409250407.AA02509@clinch.math.niu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu Some time ago I proposed we collect net wisdom on cultivation of specific plants in one spot, hoping rec.gardeners would seek data there (and reduce netnews traffic). My suggestion was that we write up data files, one per cultivated genus. This drew little notice, and response was limited to two ideas: a) It can't be done. b) It's already been done. Continued postings about garden databases prompt me to write again. The reasoning in (a) is that there are tens of thousands of plant genera, and even more "kinds" of plants; about each one might reasonably ask for many data fields. This is a lot of data -- the Flora of North America will run over a dozen volumes. Other valid objections question author credentials, editorial consistency, etc. The reasoning in (b) is that, well, we do have taxonomic and horticultural data -- they're in datasets called "books". I have also found several gopher or WWW sites with good databases, as well as stand-alone programs and CDROMS. Many people evidently keep private databases. On the other hand, people on rec.gardens seem to keep asking about common flowers. I have looked at a couple dozen of the catalogs most commonly seen (in the US), and I notice that together they don't offer more than a few hundred genera of flowering plants, excluding categories like vegetables and houseplants. (Partial listing below.) So maybe I should offer a new version of my previous proposal. I am seeking 100 volunteers, each one to write up a data file on the cultivation of common garden plants in one genus. I would expect the data to come from a mixture of experience, library work, garden lore, and whatever mailings or catalogs you have handy. Your final product will probably be shorter than this post. Your file will be publicly available on the net (FTP/gopher/WWW/email?). Others will inevitably comment on or modify your work. I will provide a template and some guides. I'm just trying to act as a conduit for the exchange of plant-lovers information on the net. If you have preferences for how this should be accomplished I'd be happy to hear from you. If you are interested in participating, email me for more information. I expect most people would prefer to write about some genus/genera more than others; please indicate your preference(s). If I can get commitments on most of these genera I'll consider the project a 'go', otherwise all bets are off. Dave Rusin, rusin@math.niu.edu TODAY'S LIST: I excluded non-flowering plants (ferns, some hedges,...); plants not primarily ornamental (veggies, fruits, nuts, herbs); and plants not appropriate for a common N. American garden (aquatic plants, tall trees, tropicals, etc.) (If you think this is too autocratic and limiting, write about any genus that excites you!) Of the genera remaining, these seem to be in the top quartile or so, and are common in local gardens too: Achillea Ajuga Allium Althaea Alyssum Anemone Antirrhinum Aquilegia Artemesia Asclepias Aster Astilbe Begonia Buddleia Caladium Campanula Campsis Canna Celosia Centaurea Ceratostigma Cercis Chrysanthemum Clematis Coleus Convallaria Coreopsis Coronilla Cosmos Crocus Dahlia Delphinium Dianthus Dicentra Digitalis Echinacea Euonymus Freesia Gaillardia Geranium Gladiolus Gypsophila Helianthus Helichrysum Hemerocallis Heuchera Hibiscus Hosta Hyacinthus Hydrangea Iberis Impatiens Ipomoea Iris Kniphofia Lathyrus Lavandula Liatris Lilium Limonium Linum Lobelia Lobularia Lonicera Lupinus Monarda Myosotis Narcissus Oenothera Paeonia Papaver Pelargonium Phlox Portulaca Potentilla Primula Pyretheum Ranunculus Rhododendron Rosa Rudbeckia Salvia Scabiosa Sedum Sempervivum Syringa Tagetes Thymus Tropaeolum Tulipa Verbena Veronica Viburnum Vinca Viola Weigela Wisteria Yucca Zinnia From bob.batson@sound.com Mon Sep 26 22:57:11 EDT 1994 Article: 44271 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Need advice on Peruvian D From: bob.batson@sound.com (Bob Batson) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!iat.holonet.net!sound!bob.batson Distribution: world Message-ID: <6b.3276.2616.0N8D6A4F@sound.com> References: <3585ki$5ab@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 94 18:00:00 -0600 Organization: Sound Advice, Inc. 816-436-1492 Lines: 53 In a message dated 09-14-94, Jeffrey A. Del Col said to All: > Message-ID: <3585ki$5ab@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> > Neighbors of mine are moving to the midwest and have given me all of > their bulbs of Peruvian Daffodils ( 100+ of them) I know > nothing at all about this flower except that I must store the > bulbs over the winter and plant them as soon as the ground is > workable in the spring. > Is this the plant with the generic name Ismene? I recall that from > somewhere, I think. > I need all the help I can get with these; none of my garden books > says a thing about them. I checked first Ismene and then Peruvian Daffodil in _Taylor's Encyclopedia of Gardening, 4th Edition_ (1961 printing), and in both cases, I was referred to the SPIDER-LILY plant. The entry says in part: "SPIDER-LILY. Rather showy, chiefly tropical American bulbous herbs, compromising the genus Hymenocallis of the family Amaryllidaceae. Of the 40 known species only four are of much cult. interest, ... They have narrow, strap-shaped, basal leaves and few-flowered clusters (umbels) of white flowers at the end of a stout, solid stalk. Corolla white, cylindric and united below, broadening at the top and with narrow segments. Stamens 6, their filaments much broadened and united at the base into a white, cup-like structure that is very conspicuous. Fruit a 3-valved capsule. Also called Peruvian Daffodil. The spider-lilies are popular plants for outdoor culture in tropical gardens. In the North they need greenhouse care and should be planted in large pots or small tubs, as their bulbs become large with age. Use potting 4 (see end of this message) and grow in the warm-temperate house. Hymenocallis caribaea blooms in the winter, and its bulbs should be rested in the summer. H. calathina is a summer bloomer and should be rested during the winter. The plants are closely related to Pancratium POTTING MIXTURE 4 ----------------- 2 parts sharp sand 2 parts loam 2 parts peat moss 1 parts leaf mold (or humus) 1/3 part dried cow manure *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W bob.batson@sound.com --- þ MR/2 2.06 NR þ I am sweet and lovable at all times. From login_name@hookup.net Mon Sep 26 22:59:29 EDT 1994 Article: 44218 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!hookup!pubsdept.ott.hookup.net!login_name From: login_name@hookup.net Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Help me custom-design a forest Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 00:42:11 GMT Organization: HookUp Communication Corporation, Oakville, Ontario, CANADA Lines: 16 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: pubsdept.ott.hookup.net X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] New Internet user here... first posting (so excuse any gaffs, please). I need some advice on trees. I recently purchased a 10 acre rural piece of land in Prince Edward Island, of which 6 acres is clear-cut - quite a mess. The government reforestation programme has offered to retree the land for me, for a very reasonable fee, but I have to choose the variety of trees, where they are to go, and how the species are to be mixed. ... in fact, to complicate things, they offer only softwood varieties. If I want hardwood, I have to purchase them separately... The land is quite steep, and the soil is good. I want to develop it for recreation and to attract wildlife ... and to build a secluded house on top of the hill someday... Any hints on resources or literature to which I may turn for advice? Thanks. From bmcw@aol.com Mon Sep 26 22:59:34 EDT 1994 Article: 44295 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: bmcw@aol.com (BMcW) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Help me custom-design a forest Date: 20 Sep 1994 21:39:06 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 17 Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <35o2rq$rk7@newsbf01.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com In article , login_name@hookup.net writes: >Any hints on resources or literature to which I may turn for advice? Might be worth consulting with a professional forest manager. Many of these people have connections to the lumber industry and think of trees as things to be harvested, but I bet you can find someone who could suggest species of trees that would be appropriate for your area and that would provide habitat, etc. The all-softwoods requirement is tough, but pines, spruce, and hemlock all make for lovely forests. Alder and aspen may also be considered softwoods, to provide some deciduous mix. Good luck! Brian Durham, NH From datacal@indirect.com Mon Sep 26 23:00:24 EDT 1994 Article: 44310 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!indirect.com!datacal From: datacal@indirect.com (Data Cal Corp.) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Raising orange trees from seeds Date: 21 Sep 1994 17:12:09 GMT Organization: Internet Direct, Inc. Lines: 37 Message-ID: <35pph9$pc7@herald.indirect.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bud.indirect.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Rob Spencer (rspencer@netcom.com) wrote: : On a whim, I planted some orange seeds in some potting soil. Nothing : happened for a long time, and I was just about to give up when I noticed : that one of the seeds had finally sprouted. : I feel like a car-chasing dog who finally catches one: _now_ what do I : do? I would appreciate any suggestions on how to husband my little : orange sprout. : Thanks, : Rob Spencer Rob, having grown up in AZ in a orange orchard I feel I could help you here. The orange that is growing could be of a couple types of oranges. The first to come to mind is a wild orange, or ornamental, These oranges are grown from seed and are used as borders, street medians, etc. The fruit is sour and will stay on the tree longer than the domesticated orange. The second is that you have a real orange. This dependsfrom what plant it came from and how it was polinatted. If this is the case then you were lucky. To take care if the plant, which will die if frost hits it, keep it in a warm place for the first year. After that you can plant it outside if the thickness if the trunk is 3/4" wrap the trunk with a lose paper cardboard to protect it from the cold. within 3-5 years you will start to get oranges 1 or 2 at first then more as it grows. For watering let the soil dry out at the top and then give it a deep watering. again in AZ in the summer thats every 2-3 weeks and the winter about 5-6 weeks or longer. I hope you have good luck with the tree and that it will bring you many great round orange balls to juice and eat. David Allred From craig_polson@radius.com Mon Sep 26 23:01:12 EDT 1994 Article: 44291 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!gatekeeper.us.oracle.com!barrnet.net!info.radius.com!security1.radius.com!user From: craig_polson@radius.com (Craig Polson) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: ATTENTION WRITERS! Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 15:45:41 -0800 Organization: Radius, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: security1.radius.com If you have a green thumb as well as writing ability, let me know! As gardening editor for both Veggie Life magazine and our new offshoot newsletter, I'm always on the lookout for new talent. If you're interested, write to me at: Carol Polson, Gardening Editor Veggie Life 1041 Shary Circle Concord, CA 94518 Please, do not respond via e-mail. I can send you our writer's guidelines when you write to me, and be sure to include any writing samples, if possible. I look forward to hearing from YOU! -Willow (Craig's wife) (If e-mailing, please mail to 73044,1704@compuserve.com... Thanks!) ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Youth is a wonderful thing; what a crime it is to waste it on children." -George Bernard Shaw --------------------------------------------------------------------- From wolffmad@ACM.ORG Tue Sep 27 10:45:17 EDT 1994 Article: 44698 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!hopper.acm.org!ACM.ORG!WOLFFMAD From: wolffmad@ACM.ORG Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: What garden writers do you like? Date: 27 Sep 1994 05:36:21 GMT Organization: ACM Network Services Lines: 27 Message-ID: <368b0l$d23@hopper.acm.org> References: Reply-To: wolffmad@ACM.ORG NNTP-Posting-Host: acm.org In article , bz2v@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Boyd Zenner) writes: >As a gardener, writer, and book collector, I'm always on the >lookout for new (or old) garden writing that I might enjoy. I >esteem the work of the late Henry Mitchell ("Earthman") above all. > >I'd like to hear from any of you all who are so inclined about >works or writers *you* particularly admire. > >Boyd I wish some editor would compile Henry Mitchell's columns about traveling and visiting gardens in the United Kingdom into an article or booklet. We were stationed in the UK at the time he was writing, and my family faithfully clipped and mailed those columns. I found them to be much more insightful and creative than most "What to Visit" advice. Mitchell had a wonderful way of observing plants and gardeners anyway, and his perceptions about traveling around Britain were accurate, pleasant, and enjoyable. He emphasized seeing things not as a typical tourist but from a gardener's point of view. Anne Zone 6-7 From davidi9020@aol.com Thu Sep 29 21:43:30 EDT 1994 Article: 44827 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: davidi9020@aol.com (DavidI9020) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Ponds/water gardens, anyone? Date: 29 Sep 1994 08:55:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 12 Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <36edf6$7da@newsbf01.news.aol.com> References: <36clt2$hk2@news.ycc.yale.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com In article <36clt2$hk2@news.ycc.yale.edu>, una@doliolum.biology.yale.edu (Una Smith) writes: References: <35poit$nao@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <35puco$clk@newsbf01.news.aol.com> <5986@metasoft.UUCP> NNTP-Posting-Host: lakatos.osf.org In-reply-to: rln@metasoft.UUCP's message of 26 Sep 94 16:02:49 GMT In article <5986@metasoft.UUCP> rln@metasoft.UUCP (Roberta Norin) writes: Try Florafile for Windows from Terrace Software. It does just what you are asking for. It comes with over 600 plants and you can add your own plants. $49.00. 600 plants isn't very many. The American Horticultural Society's Encyclopedia of Garden Plants covers about 8,000 plants, with photographs of about 4,000. Of these, probably over 600 fit the proposed criterion "Sunny, well-drained soil, flowering, shrub"! You don't get arbitrary search criteria, but it is well organized and indexed(*) so in practice you can find plants meeting given criteria pretty easily. In particular, there is an index where you can find a list of recommended shrubs adapted to dry shade, etc. The price is about the same as the Florafile program described above. -s (*) Actually, only the 4,000 plants that have photos really benefit >from their full organization; the other 4,000 are only listed alphabetically by genus and species. Still, 4,000 well-indexed plants is almost seven times as many as the Florafile program. From macrakis@osf.org Mon Oct 3 11:52:58 EDT 1994 Article: 44864 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!paperboy.osf.org!paperboy!macrakis From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Plant Identification Software II Date: 29 Sep 1994 17:57:55 GMT Organization: OSF Research Institute Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <35poit$nao@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <35puco$clk@newsbf01.news.aol.com> <5986@metasoft.UUCP> NNTP-Posting-Host: lakatos.osf.org In-reply-to: rln@metasoft.UUCP's message of 26 Sep 94 16:02:49 GMT In article <5986@metasoft.UUCP> rln@metasoft.UUCP (Roberta Norin) writes: Try Florafile for Windows from Terrace Software. It does just what you are asking for. It comes with over 600 plants and you can add your own plants. $49.00. 600 plants isn't very many. The American Horticultural Society's Encyclopedia of Garden Plants covers about 8,000 plants, with photographs of about 4,000. Of these, probably over 600 fit the proposed criterion "Sunny, well-drained soil, flowering, shrub"! You don't get arbitrary search criteria, but it is well organized and indexed(*) so in practice you can find plants meeting given criteria pretty easily. In particular, there is an index where you can find a list of recommended shrubs adapted to dry shade, etc. The price is about the same as the Florafile program described above. -s (*) Actually, only the 4,000 plants that have photos really benefit >from their full organization; the other 4,000 are only listed alphabetically by genus and species. Still, 4,000 well-indexed plants is almost seven times as many as the Florafile program. From Karen.Fletcher@p99.f426.n114.z1.fidonet.org Mon Oct 3 11:53:52 EDT 1994 Article: 44974 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!damar!1-114-426-99!Karen.Fletcher From: Karen.Fletcher@p99.f426.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Karen Fletcher) Date: 26 Sep 94 05:05:17 -0800 Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Let's welcome our fellow gardeners from Compuserve Message-ID: X-Mail-Agent: GIGO+ sn 115 at damar vsn 0.98w32 Organization: Damar Enterprises Lines: 22 From: Fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Today's the day Compuserve opens the gates to the Usenet newsgroups. I'm sure Compuservers will find it pretty rough going in some of the newgroups which don't seem to assimilate new addresses easily ;-) But I think that they will find rec.gardens the same friendly, cheerfully chaotic place that we all enjoy. Compuservers are used to a slightly more organized universe because their Garden Forum is arranged into a number of subforums. Bear with the chaos, guys, and I hope your newsreader handles threads!! Karen Fletcher fletcher@prairienet.org ==================The Garden Gate on Prairienet=========================== http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm From bob.batson@sound.com Mon Oct 3 11:55:15 EDT 1994 Article: 44882 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Plant Taxonomy Book? From: bob.batson@sound.com (Bob Batson) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.byu.edu!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!iat.holonet.net!sound!bob.batson Distribution: world Message-ID: <6b.3550.2616.0N8D6B3A@sound.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 19:16:00 -0600 Organization: Sound Advice, Inc. 816-436-1492 Lines: 8 Can anyone recommend a good introductory book about Plant Taxonomy? *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W bob.batson@sound.com --- þ MR/2 2.06 NR þ "Just change the gravitational constant of the Universe." -- Q From una@doliolum.biology.yale.edu Mon Oct 3 11:55:26 EDT 1994 Article: 44895 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ceylon!news2.near.net!yale!yale!yale.edu!news.ycc.yale.edu!una From: una@doliolum.biology.yale.edu (Una Smith) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Plant Taxonomy Book? Date: 29 Sep 1994 17:13:01 GMT Organization: Yale University, Department of Biology Lines: 14 Message-ID: <36esit$ant@news.ycc.yale.edu> References: <6b.3550.2616.0N8D6B3A@sound.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: doliolum.biology.yale.edu The classic "Flowering Plants of the World" is in press again, at long last! Have your favorite bookshop special-order it for you. The ISBN is 0-19-521037-9, and it is from Oxford University Press. This book is an extremely popular college textbook, a reference used by most professional taxonomists, an important original source (the editor, V.H. Heywood, and the authors are all world-class experts), and a coffeetable picture book popular with naturalists, horticulturalists, and gardeners. -- Una Smith una.smith@yale.edu Dept. of Biology, Yale University, New Haven, CT 06520-8104 USA From klier@cobra.uni.edu Mon Oct 3 11:56:10 EDT 1994 Article: 44885 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier From: klier@cobra.uni.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Plant Taxonomy Book? Message-ID: <1994Sep29.133337.32722@cobra.uni.edu> Date: 29 Sep 94 13:33:37 -0500 References: <6b.3550.2616.0N8D6B3A@sound.com> Distribution: world Organization: University of Northern Iowa Lines: 42 In article <6b.3550.2616.0N8D6B3A@sound.com>, bob.batson@sound.com (Bob Batson) writes: > Can anyone recommend a good introductory book about Plant Taxonomy? I'm currently using Walters, DR & Keil, DJ 1988 Vascular Plant Taxonomy, 3rd ed. Kendall Hunt, Dubuque, IA for my plant systematics course. Pretty good explanations of terms and descriptions of important families and their recognition characteristics, pretty good discussion of the philosophy and practices behind evolutionary classifications. I like Tod Stuessy's (1990) Plant taxonomy: The systematic evaluation of comparative data (Columbia Univ. Press) for its discussions of the whys and wherefores of classification, but my students find it very dry, and it does not cover family recognition characteristics (they're mainly interested in "what is it and how do I key it out", not great philosophical ruminations on the differences between a subspecies and a variety and a semi- species.) If you're interested primarily in the identification and family recognition aspects, and not the philosophy, CL Porter (1967) Taxonomy of Flowering Plants (WH FReeman) does a nice job of explaining terminology, giving good drawings and diagrams, and talking about recognition characteristics, but the organizing system he uses (Engler) is pretty well dead now. It is, however, very readable, and I see copies in used book stores fairly often for about $3-5; I own several copies that I often lend to students who have trouble visualizing flowers in cross section, since Porter uses floral diagrams. There's a lot of other good books out there, too, so don't let me dissuade you from one you find to be useful. For my own use, however, when I want to refresh my memory of a family, I reach for GHM Lawrence's Taxonomy of Vascular Plants (1951; Macmillan, out of print, alas). It's got good information in a nice compact form, and good (if tiny) diagrams for each family. The organization of the book may be out of date, but it's still a handy compendium, but not a "do it yourself beginner's taxonomy book". If I knew a bit more about what you wanted, I might be able to suggest a specific title or titles. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI From una@doliolum.biology.yale.edu Mon Oct 3 11:57:49 EDT 1994 Article: 44895 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ceylon!news2.near.net!yale!yale!yale.edu!news.ycc.yale.edu!una From: una@doliolum.biology.yale.edu (Una Smith) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Plant Taxonomy Book? Date: 29 Sep 1994 17:13:01 GMT Organization: Yale University, Department of Biology Lines: 14 Message-ID: <36esit$ant@news.ycc.yale.edu> References: <6b.3550.2616.0N8D6B3A@sound.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: doliolum.biology.yale.edu The classic "Flowering Plants of the World" is in press again, at long last! Have your favorite bookshop special-order it for you. The ISBN is 0-19-521037-9, and it is from Oxford University Press. This book is an extremely popular college textbook, a reference used by most professional taxonomists, an important original source (the editor, V.H. Heywood, and the authors are all world-class experts), and a coffeetable picture book popular with naturalists, horticulturalists, and gardeners. -- Una Smith una.smith@yale.edu Dept. of Biology, Yale University, New Haven, CT 06520-8104 USA From fletcher@prairienet.org Mon Oct 3 12:06:37 EDT 1994 Article: 44903 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Seeking sources of botanical, horticultural databases Date: 29 Sep 1994 21:18:58 GMT Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net Lines: 43 Message-ID: <36fb02$fan@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] John Clayton (jclayton@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote: : We are looking for Internet sources of botanical, : horticultural databases. We are looking for databases containing data on : sources of plants from around the world. Sorry about the mess, this is not quite cleaned up HTML coded stuff: Australian National Botanic Gardens Cornell Botanical Collections Gopher Missouri Botanic Gardens University of Georgia The Department of Botany offers a number links and an illustrated tour of their greenhouses. Angiosperm Family Descriptions Harvard Gray Herbarium Index of New World Plants. If my editor is lopping off long lines, go in at the top of the gopher and work your way down. Harvard probably has links to all significant botany and biology gophers around the world. If you are Web-enabled, visit the Garden Gate (URL below), the above are >from the Internet Resources - Botany page. Our site can get pretty busy between 3pm-10pm Central time. (about 6 hours diff) Cheers -- Karen Fletcher fletcher@prairienet.org =================The Garden Gate on Prairienet========================== http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm From rusin@math.niu.edu Mon Oct 3 12:10:20 EDT 1994 Article: 44959 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!cambridge-news.cygnus.com!news.cygnus.com!sgiblab!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: rusin@math.niu.edu (Dave Rusin) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Horticultural database on the net - shall we write one? (update) Date: 30 Sep 1994 14:14:48 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 50 Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu Message-ID: <9409301915.AA16914@clinch.math.niu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu I'm the fellow who began this thread last week. The response so far has been gratifying. It looks like there's sufficient interest, so the project will go; but there is still plenty of room for more volunteers (and, likely, there always will be.) If you'd like to participate, please email me at rusin@math.niu.edu. (Avoid posting unless you have something to say to everyone.) I'd like to clarify a few points. I've set down a more detailed description of the project; it can be retrieved via FTP or gopher (and thus thru WWW) by: Anonymous ftp to math.niu.edu, /pub/papers/Rusin, or gopher to math.niu.edu, Faculty Publications / Rusin I can email whatever you can't get any other way. It's 500 lines, 27K. Also there is a sample of what we might provide in the database. I wrote up an article on Molucella (Bells of Ireland), [partly because that plant is frustrating me right now and I hope someone can add to what I wrote and help me out]. Some of the people who have volunteered seem like real experts in certain areas; I hope their articles are much better. Other people seem just to be willing to help out writing about anything; that's wonderful too and I'd be happy to accept articles from them which are even more cursory than mine. We can always add to them later. Finally, one person suggested that some of the flowers might be better recognized by common name than by genus. While this is true I am a bit reluctant to leap into the morass of common names. Nonetheless I am reprinting the names of the plants I posted before, but with a common name (or two) replacing the name of the genus which includes them. If this encourages any volunteers that's wonderful. I appreciate all the supporting comments. The timetable in my project description is too ambitious, but I still hope to confirm assignments with volunteer authors in about a week, if enough people continue chiming in to make the project complete enough to be useful. Dave Rusin rusin@math.niu.edu ORIGINAL LIST ("translated into English") Ajuga Allium Alyssum Anemone Artemesia Aster Astilbe BabysBreath BachelorsButtons Beebalm Begonia BlackEyedSusan BleedingHearts BurningBush Buttercup ButterflyBush ButterflyPlant Caladium Candytuft Canna CanterburyBells Carnation Celosia Chrysanthemum Clematis Coleus Columbine Coneflower CoralBells Coreopsis Cosmos Crocus Crownvetch Daffodil Dahlia Daylily Delphinium EveningPrimrose Flax ForgetMeNot Foxglove Freesia Gaillardia Geranium Gladiola HensAndChicks Hibiscus Hollyhock Honeysuckle Hosta Hyacinth Hydrangea Impatiens Iris Lavender Liatris Lilac Lily LilyOfValley Lobelia Lupine Marigold Moonflower MorningGlory MossRose Nasturtium PaintedDaisy Peony Periwinkle Phlox PincushionFlower Pinks Plumbago Poppy Potentilla Primrose Redbud Rhododendron Rose Salvia Sedum Snapdragon Statice Strawflower Sunflower SweetPea Thyme Tritoma TrumpetVine Tulip Verbena Veronica Viburnum Viola Weigela Wisteria Yarrow Yucca Zinnia From bob.batson@sound.com Mon Oct 3 12:11:40 EDT 1994 Article: 45060 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Gardening Forum From: bob.batson@sound.com (Bob Batson) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!iat.holonet.net!sound!bob.batson Distribution: world Message-ID: <6b.3675.2616.0N8D6BCC@sound.com> Date: Sat, 1 Oct 94 19:33:00 -0600 Organization: Sound Advice, Inc. 816-436-1492 Lines: 12 It's just been brought to my attention that _National Gardening_ magazine uploads most of its magazine articles to the library of The Gardening Forum, a special-interest group on CompuServe. If you have access to this commercial service, you'll want to check-out this SIG. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W bob.batson@sound.com --- þ MR/2 2.06 NR þ "I came to say....I must be going." Capt. Spaulding From 71550.3411@compuserve.com Mon Oct 3 12:13:22 EDT 1994 Article: 45011 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!71550.3411@compuserve.com From: Conrad Richter <71550.3411@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: preserving fresh herbs Message-ID: <941002163340_71550.3411_FHG49-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: daemon@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (Usenet Server Daemon) Organization: Indiana University Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 16:36:11 GMT Lines: 22 Dennis Klimchuk wrote: >Fall is falling here in Toronto, and before the frost hits, I'd like >to harvest all my herbs. I'll turn the basil into pesto to freeze, >but I was wondering if there were ways to preserve other herbs >(rosemary, sage, oregano, etc.), other than drying them. I was >thinking of making herb paste stuff: mincing the herbs, mixing them >with olive oil, and keeping them in jars in the fridge. If I make >sure there's always a little oil over the mixture, it should stay >preserved, yes? Any ideas? Try putting the oil+paste mixture in the freezer for greater longevity. Frozen oil is soft enough to scoop out and use in cooking. You can also freeze whole sprigs of fresh herbs -- only in bundles of as much as you would use at one time -- in plastic bags. When you use, chop while frozen. Conrad Richter Richters Herbs [100 page colour herb catalogue available] From mrobey@delphi.com Mon Oct 3 12:15:29 EDT 1994 Article: 45036 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Bif texas Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: preserving fresh herbs Date: Sun, 2 Oct 94 22:50:57 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <36mjm6$nt9@alpha.epas.utoronto.c> <1453300846@cdp> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1c.delphi.com X-To: Libby Goldstein Libby Goldstein writes: >I find a good and easy way of preserving the flavor of the herbs if not >the greens themselves is to make herbal vinegars. Just pop a bunch of herbs >in a jar and cover them with vinegar...Chinese clear rice vinegar is very > >nice. > >Libby A good olive oil is also a wonderful way to capture the flavor of fresh herbs. I have a bottle that I continually stuff new herbs and garlic cloves in. As the oil gets depleted, I just add some fresh olive oil and a bit of whatever is available from the herb garden. The flavor is constantly changing, but always potent and good. M From flyinggoat@aol.com Mon Oct 3 12:15:37 EDT 1994 Article: 45046 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: flyinggoat@aol.com (Flyinggoat) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: preserving fresh herbs Date: 3 Oct 1994 00:03:08 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 12 Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <36nvps$lqk@newsbf01.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com In article , Bif texas writes: I like taking my basil leaves, washing them by sluicing them in a bowl of water so they don't bruise, spreading them out to air dry till the water is all evaporated, and then sandwich-bagging them and dropping them in the freezer. For the rest of the winter (and on into Spring when I need basil for soups or sauces) I just drop a leaf or a handful (while frozen) into my soup/sauce. This will also work for mints, oregano, chives, and sage. Betty Cunningham(Flyinggoat@aol.com) From conrad@richters.com Tue Nov 8 23:23:37 EST 1994 Article: 47116 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!fonorola!infoshare!whome!scilink!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!richtr!conrad From: conrad@richters.com (Conrad Richter) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: REQUEST: Neem tree info Message-ID: <2092uc4w165w@richters.com> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 07:45:12 EST References: <39123p$17t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Organization: Richters Herbs Lines: 43 z005114b@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Joan Bradley) writes: > I am now the proud owner of a neem tree in a one-gallon pot. It was > a gift. How much water and fertilizer does it need? How big does it get? > I'm in South Florida. How do they fare in this area? I'd appreciate > learning about this before I plant it and would hope some of the > knowledgeable people "out there" could help. A gift? You what enlightened friends you have. Neem is a fascinating plant with some pretty remarkable medical, insect-inhibiting and other commercially useful properties. It has been the subject of a lot of research in the last few decades. This summer I collected seeds in Ghana where it has become naturalized as it has in much of the tropics. It is very hardy -- ethnic East Indians tell me it is almost weedy in its disposition, and indeed the USDA has some concerns over its potential to become the next _Schinus_ in Florida. (I say they need not have much concern for while it is agressive I have never seen it become a nuisance.) I understand that there are people trying to develop strains that are frost tolerant, but as far as I know nothing significant has come of the efforts yet. So, for now, assume that it will suffer badly if it gets hit by frost. Indeed, it doesn't even like temperatures below 60F -- in our greenhouses they suffer badly during the winter months when our greenhouses drop to 50F nightly. Neem will grow in full or partial shade, needs heavy feeding (high N) and doesn't mind copious water if it can get it. I have the notion to promote neem as a house plant, since it seems to do very well in bright windows. Would require the occasional heavy pruning, but otherwise it requires little care. And it has its own pest defense system... There is a book out on neem put out by the National Research Council called _Neem: A Tree for Solving Global Problems_ (1992). (We are planning to list it in our next catalogue. Sorry, Adam, I couldn't help myself, but at least I avoided mentioning the price.) Conrad Richter RICHTERS HERBS | Info: info@richters.com Goodwood, ON L0C 1A0, Canada | Catalog Requests: catalog@richters.com Tel +1-905-640-6677 Fax 640-6641 | Conrad Richter: conrad@richters.com From steve.pickett@ectech.com Tue Nov 8 23:24:37 EST 1994 Article: 47180 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!iat.holonet.net!ectech!steve.pickett From: steve.pickett@ectech.com (Steve Pickett) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: REQUEST: Neem tree info Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 02:12:00 GMT Message-ID: <9411021011483745@ectech.com> Organization: holonet Lines: 114 TO: z005114b@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us FROM: steve.pickett@ectech.com SUBJECT: Neem Info Z{|}I am now the proud owner of a neem tree in a one-gallon pot. It was Z{|}a gift. How much water and fertilizer does it need? How big does it get? Z{|}I'm in South Florida. How do they fare in this area? I'd appreciate Z{|}learning about this before I plant it and would hope some of the Z{|}knowledgeable people "out there" could help. Z{|}-- Joan, Here is a copy of a message to me on this topic. From: William Glover Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 15:44:37 -0400 To: steve.pickett@ectech.com Subject: Neem Tree Q & A Steve Pickett, Glad you received the seeds. Don't know that I'm so glad to have all the questions, but here goes: >How big does the Neem get (height and width)? 40 feet high x 20-30 feet wide in the tropics. >How fast does it grow? Two feet or so a year, in the tropics. >Is the root structure such that it can be planted near a sidewalk (and >not lift the cement)? Nevis, W.I. is where the sidewalk ends. Have no idea, but most any sizeable tree will lift sidewalks. Don't think it would lift sidewalks anywhere in the USA outside of Key West, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, or the Virgin Islands. The Neem is a *tropical* tree; seedlings are killed by frost and larger ones can take only a few degrees below 0 F for a very short time. >Can other things grow under it, or does it sterilize the soil? Grass, sansevierias, stapeliads, and baby neems grow under mine. >What is it's shape (conical, open, twisted, upright, umbrella, spreading, >...)? Upright, erect, and moderately spreading. >Can it be trimmed to have the lower branches up off the ground? Yes. Can stand any amount of pruning. >Can you walk under it? If the lower branches are cut away. >What is the fruit like? Ovoid, yellow, with about 2 mm of flesh around the seed. >What can the fruit be used for (eating, jams, jellies, fodder, compost, Doesn't taste very good. Have no idea if considered edible in India and Sri Lanka. Leaves and branches said to be suitable for cattle fodder, but my neighbor's sheep won't touch them. Primary use for seeds nowadays is for the extraction of azadirachtin for bioinsecticides such as those being marketed under the names of Margosan-O, BioNEEM, and Neemix. >Is it a messy tree? Not especially. Little leaf litter, but abundant fruit fall in season. >How close together can they be planted? I have a number planted 2-3 feet apart as a windscreen. >Why the concerns about it being invasive? It naturalizes readily in warm, arid climates. One should always be concerned about exotics being invasive and crowding out native species. Think about kudzu and water hyacinth in southern US, lantana in Hawaii, prickly pears in Australia, Brazilian pepper trees in Florida, etc. >Lot's of questions. True. Happy you didn't ask how much a big one weighs as my scale is broken. > I looked it up in my Sunset Garden Book, and it was >not listed, neither the common nor the botanical names. As far as I know, on the US mainland neems are only in southern Florida and but recently introduced. Warm regards, William Glover I have also spoken to some local people who have come up dry on info. Even Hortus 3rd didn't have info which suprised one nurserywoman. I'm trying to propagate some seeds, but no luck yet. Let me know how it goes. Steve --- * QMPro 1.52 * Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of Humanitarians! From paul.maser@megasystem.com Tue Nov 8 23:26:31 EST 1994 Article: 47217 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Apparently-to: JOAN BRADLEY Subject: REQUEST: Neem tree info From: paul.maser@megasystem.com (Paul Maser) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!iat.holonet.net!megasys!paul.maser Distribution: world Message-ID: <215.7436.1362.0NA70CF6@megasystem.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 07:18:00 -0800 Organization: MegaSystem BBS * 702-849-2207 * 10 Nodes * Lines: 21 JB>I am now the proud owner of a neem tree in a one-gallon pot. It was >a gift. How much water and fertilizer does it need? How big does it get? >I'm in South Florida. How do they fare in this area? I'd appreciate >learning about this before I plant it and would hope some of the >knowledgeable people "out there" could help. >-- JB>Joan Bradley I've been raising a couple of neem trees for a few years. A one gallon pot is probably too small, but it appears that you can bonzai them. I finally transplanted mine into twenty gallon pots and they loved it. Now they're up to about four feet and much healthier. They are tropical trees and can't take frost. In southern Florida you can probably leave them outdoors most of the year. I give mine a small amount of miracle grow on occassion. To water, lift the pot and when its almost dry, soak it. Best Regards; Paul From rob.king@nfe.com Tue Nov 8 23:31:08 EST 1994 Article: 47298 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swiss.ans.net!potogold.rmii.com!nfe!rob.king From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Garden CD-Roms? Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 02:59:00 GMT Message-ID: <941103100012912@nfe.com> Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653 Distribution: world Lines: 29 defurst@u.washington.edu (Daniel E. Furst) replied: D>Could you post or e-mail me your list of these few? I've had a difficult >time finding them listed or indexed in any library reference >publication...besides they appear so quickly, the print media cannot keep up! >thanx in advance. D>In article <38h4ri$19c@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, >Donald T. Noda wrote: >> >>I have seen a few Gardening CD-Rs floating about. I was >>wondering if any one had any opinions on any of them. >> I have a listing on 2 CD's that are gardening-related: 1. "GARDENING" layout, pest control, contains some photos for ID... Judging from the price: $15 retail, it probably doesn't do more than a general gardening book. 2. "PIXEL GARDEN" more photo-oriented, for plant ID... price is about $30. retail. These are brief descriptions from my CD catalog.... I have not seen either... but would be interested in comments from anybody who has. Rob. --- * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<----- From j.g.moore@express.larc.nasa.gov Tue Nov 8 23:31:14 EST 1994 Article: 47362 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!news.larc.nasa.gov!usenet From: j.g.moore@express.larc.nasa.gov (Judith Moore) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Garden CD-Roms? Date: 4 Nov 1994 16:28:12 GMT Organization: NASA/Langley Research Center Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <39dnes$57a@reznor.larc.nasa.gov> References: <941103100012912@nfe.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mollusk.larc.nasa.gov X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0.2@mollusk.larc.nasa.gov X-Authenticated: j.g.moore on POP host express.larc.nasa.gov The Chestnut CD 'Gardening' is a collection of shareware applications and misc. material -- not too valuable in my estimation. 'Pixel Garden' is a very nice database of landscape plants cross referenced in several ways and with pretty photos that can be used as a screensaver. BTW, I got 'Forever Growing Garden' at a recent computer show and it turned out to be a game "suitable for ages 4-8," not a gardening reference. Judith Moore judith@mermaid.larc.nasa.gov From sean.ohara@ucop.edu Tue Nov 8 23:31:33 EST 1994 Article: 47141 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!usenet From: sean.ohara@ucop.edu Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: AROID-L LISTSERV discussion group Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 15:18:04 PDT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 63 Message-ID: <393u2o$il9@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: largo.ucop.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage Here is some information about this group: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 15:43:32 CST From: phil mueller Subject: AROID-L Announcement THE INTERNATIONAL AROID SOCIETY ANNOUNCES THE DEBUT OF AROID-L, A NEW ELECTRONIC DISCUSSION GROUP SET UP TO PROVIDE A FORUM FOR COLLECTORS, ACADEMICS, AND OTHERS INTERESTED IN THIS FASCINATING GROUP OF PLANTS. AROID-L is a free international forum to promote the exchange of information on growing, collecting, and reproducing aroids. The primary purpose of AROID-L is to enable aroid enthusiasts to easily communicate with each other. We will feature show announcements, book reviews, papers from subscribers, and discussion. Since the list is affiliated with the International Aroid Society, we will post announcements and other communications >from the society. TO SUBSCRIBE: Send a message to listproc@mobot.org (no subject) SUB AROID-L John Doe (substitute your own name of course) If you have an automatic signature file, it should be deleted for listproc commands. There are no dues or fees of any kind. Subscribers only need an address on Internet or Bitnet or a commercial service like Delphi or Compuserve. Delphi seems to work smoother with the Internet and is cheaper than most others. TO POST A MESSAGE TO AROID-L Send your message to aroid-l@mobot.org. Enter a subject on the subject line. This is important for searching the weekly logs for messages relating to a specific subject. AROID-L is co-edited by Steve Marak and Phil Mueller. The editors will filter out extraneous messages and items that do not belong on AROID-L. Some communications do not aid the dialog and may belong on another list. The editors will not alter the substance of anyone's post. However, the subject line may be changed to facilitate ease of searching the log. Contributions may vary in length. Please sign your name and e-mail address to each post. All posts must be signed, and we will add the address if it is not included. All contributions to AROID-L will be part of the public domain and can be freely used, printed, copied or retransmitted if credit is given to the original author. Please send all questions to: Phil Mueller or Steve Marak From sobol@stout.atd.ucar.edu Tue Nov 8 23:32:48 EST 1994 Article: 47130 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!hsdndev!ncar!ncar!sobol From: sobol@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Rebecca Sobol) Newsgroups: alt.architecture,sci.environment,rec.gardens,news.groups Subject: Re: RFD: NewGROUP: alt.landscape.architecture Date: 31 Oct 1994 23:26:50 GMT Organization: National Center for Atmospheric Research/Boulder, CO Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <94299.110020MTSUCHY@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: stout.atd.ucar.edu In-reply-to: 's message of Wed, 26 Oct 1994 11:00:20 EDT Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.architecture:4415 sci.environment:45132 rec.gardens:47130 news.groups:98196 In article <94299.110020MTSUCHY@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> writes: I would therefore like to propose for the creation of such a newsgroup (alt.landscape.architecture) on Netnews. The purpose of this group would be to exchange information and discussion on landscape architecture - similar to the already existing group alt.architecture. This is an attempt to get the stone rolling. I would appreciate your comments and support on the issue. If you wish to contact me, please do so through my below e-mail address, or via FAX: (304)296-6422. Thank You, Maximilian T.H. Suchy mtsuchy@wvnvm.wvnet.edu "A designer's idea today becomes our world tomorrow." ***************************************************** I would be interested in a group discussing landscape architecture. I have studied the subject at the graduate level, although I did not complete the degree. I would not like it buried under alt.architecture however because I do not get alt.* groups. I would like to see a rec.architecture.landscape even though rec does not adequately convey the professional nature of the group. -- Rebecca Sobol * "Everybody wants a box of chocolates sobol@stout.atd.ucar.edu * and a long stem rose. Everybody knows." http://www.atd.ucar.edu/rdp/ris.html * Leonard Cohen From amintel@nic.cerf.net Tue Nov 8 23:41:03 EST 1994 Article: 47198 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!amintel From: amintel@nic.cerf.net (Christopher Green) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Do bees and butterflies compete for nectar? Date: 1 Nov 1994 18:30:38 GMT Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Lines: 54 Sender: C Green Distribution: na Message-ID: <3961ge$ge2@news.cerf.net> References: <3911gl$sp6@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net Summary: They may not compete, but consider the caterpillars. In article <3911gl$sp6@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Karen Fletcher writes: >> This year my annual garden had LOADS of bumblebees around all of the >> time (they especially liked the Victoria blue salvia) but a lot fewer >> butterflies than I'm used to. Last year I seemed to get a lot more >> butterflies and fewer bees. The types of plants in the garden have been >> mostly the same from year to year so I know it isn't that. Could it be >> weather related? Or are bees more agressive and once they find a nice >> source of nectar do they tend to chase the butterflies away? >> Larry >> -- >> Larry Kahn "Winning isn't everything, but losing sucks." >> lkahn@mitre.org >> > >I've never noticed that nectaring is a zero-sum game. Flowers >produce nectar actively as long as they're blooming - >more heavily at times that favor certain pollinator (e.g. at night >for moths). I'm not sure a nectar scarcity or competition >is much of an issue, especially in dense flower stands of >a cultivated garden. > >But it has been a sparse butterfly year, at least here in Illinois. >We laid out a great free bar but few joined the party this >year. We had a fiercely cold winter and an unusually dry >spring. Who really knows what factors influence the waxing >and waning of butterfly populations? > I'm not sure butterflies and bees compete all that much. They are adapted to working different kinds of flowers: the long mouthparts of most butterflies enable them to feed from long tubular flowers that bees can't work. Also, bees gather pollen, which I don't think butterflies make any use of. But most important, butterflies do most of their feeding as caterpillars. With a few notable exceptions, adult butterflies don't live much longer than they need to mate and lay eggs. So getting a good yield of butterflies means sacrificing a lot of foliage to the caterpillars. Some plants are well known as hospitable to caterpillars: passion vine, butterfly bush (Buddleia), lantana, plumbago. Another factor may be predators, parasites, or poisons that took out your caterpillar population. An abundance of caterpillars translates into an abundance of birds, parasitic wasps, and so on; if they overdo it, there won't be as many butterflies next year. Or your neighbor may have used Bacillus thuringiensis or an insecticide. Chris Green San Juan Capistrano, CA amintel@cerf.net From rob.king@nfe.com Tue Nov 8 23:42:18 EST 1994 Article: 47299 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swiss.ans.net!potogold.rmii.com!nfe!rob.king From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Do bees and butterflies compete for nectar? Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 03:24:00 GMT Message-ID: <941103100012913@nfe.com> Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653 Distribution: world Lines: 25 A>In article <3911gl$sp6@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Karen Fletcher >> This year my annual garden had LOADS of bumblebees around all of the >>> time (they especially liked the Victoria blue salvia) but a lot fewer >>> butterflies than I'm used to. Last year I seemed to get a lot more >>> butterflies and fewer bees. The types of plants in the garden have been >>> mostly the same from year to year so I know it isn't that. Could it be >>> weather related? Or are bees more agressive and once they find a nice >>> source of nectar do they tend to chase the butterflies away? >>> Competition and greed is alive and well in the animal world too... Some are more 'sans souci' while others can be very territorial. It has been my experience that while a honeybee may be willing to share a blossom with their dipteran and lepidopteran cousins... a bumblebee may chase a hummingbird completely out of the garden. Your observation of not many bees is common... bee populations are down due to a national epidemic of parasitic bee mites. Rob. --- * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<----- From riley@prairienet.org Tue Nov 8 23:43:11 EST 1994 Article: 47388 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!riley From: riley@prairienet.org (Riley Foster) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Do bees and butterflies compete for nectar? Date: 6 Nov 1994 01:56:27 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 14 Message-ID: <39hd4b$t15@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org 1994 has had the lowest populations of butterflies since I started keeping a butterfly gardening journal 5 years ago. I think weather has the greatest effect on the numbers. East central IL had a cool spell in late spring which occured during the first hatching of many species of caterpillars. I think of bees, esp. bumblebees, as indicators of nectar. Bumblebees & butterflies nectar on many of the same flowers. I agree that caterpillar cultivation is vital in increasing butterfly numbers. I am interested in any observations of gardeners about humming- birds & butterflies interactions. I have wondered if hummers would chase butterflies away from nectar sources. Rotting fruit as an attractrant only works on a few species of butterflies & will attract lots of hornets. Butterfly bush, Buddleia davidii, doesn't do anything for any caterpillars that I know of, but it will pack in the adults (also hummers & bees). From mrooney@mrooney.pn.com Tue Nov 8 23:43:53 EST 1994 Article: 47228 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!satisfied.elf.com!ci-pioneer!mrooney Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: computer gardening Message-ID: <9411011531151114@mrooney.pn.com> From: Michael Rooney Date: Tue, 01 Nov 94 15:31:15 -0500 (EST) References: <38tjh9$hda@newsbf01.news.aol.com> Distribution: world Organization: Software Export Corporation Reply-To: mrooney@mrooney.pn.com X-Mailer: rnMac v1.1 Lines: 21 In article <38tjh9$hda@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, you write: > > does anyone know of any computer software that will let me control my > greenhouse from my keyboard?I would like it to control > watering,temperature,etc. from my keyboard.Any help is appreciated. > Try both the Hobby Greenhouse Association and The Growing Edge Magazine for ideas. Other than that you might want to look into a Home Automation Laboratories catalog. They have a lot of X10 based controllers and some that are not X10 but work with the same protocols and software for both PCs and Macs to manipulate them. What type of greenhouse are you trying to water? It can get difficult to get the water to the greenhouse in a still liquid state depending on where the greenhouse is sited. Regards, ..michael.. From richard@panchax.gryphon.com Tue Nov 8 23:45:47 EST 1994 Article: 47226 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!jabba.fdn.org!uunet!bounce-back From: richard@panchax.gryphon.com (Richard J. Sexton) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.gardens,rec.gardens.roses,rec.gardens.orchids,rec.arts.bonsai,sci.aquaria,rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,bionet.plants Subject: RFD: rec.plants.* Followup-To: news.groups Date: 1 Nov 1994 17:52:38 -0500 Organization: VRx Network Services, Inc. Lines: 118 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <396grm$ptt@rodan.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu news.announce.newgroups:5055 news.groups:98255 rec.gardens:47226 rec.gardens.roses:1909 rec.gardens.orchids:1173 rec.arts.bonsai:6824 sci.aquaria:9139 rec.aquaria:44084 alt.aquaria:26076 bionet.plants:4112 Proposal for a newsgroups reorganization of plant specific newsgroups Request for Discussion: rec.plants.* by: Richard J. Sexton (richard@panchax.gryphon.com) --------------------------------------------------- GROUPS AFFECTED: rec.gardens rec.gardens.roses rec.gardens.orchids rec.arts.bonsai *.aquaria bionet.plants INTRODUCTION Currently, the top level hierarchy for most things plant related on usenet is rec.gardens. This probably made sense back when rec.gardens was created, becuse in that timeframe most newsgruops on usenet were computer related and non computer groups took rather a back seat. Usenet has grown (sic) however, and this is no longer the case. As such, lumping everything plant related under rec.gardens does not make sense in many cases, especially when one considers possible future plant-related newsgroups. JUSTIFICATION: Many newsgroups that could not have existed back when rec.gardens was created (.orchids, .bonsai) are currently successful newgroups, yet they are classified under rec.gardens. Although this is not completely inappropriate, it does not scale well, since gardens is a subset of plants, not vice versa. One scarcly has a "garden" or orchids - one has a collection. One does not "garden" houseplants, nor does one "garden" bonsai. Future possible groups include ones for Bromeliads, Gesenerids and carniverous plants, as all have successfull mailing lists, and it's only a matter of time until they will be newsgroups. These are not best classified under rec.gardens. If we follow the International Committee on Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN) model for biological taxonomy, in spirit, but not in letter, then the higher levels of newsgroups classification should be broad sweeping classification. Rec.gardens is not, and following the idea set by the rec.animals.* reorganization, I feel it is time to re-examine the taxonomy of plant groups on usenet. PROPOSED CLASSIFICATION: I believe usenet would be well served by establishing a rec.plants hierarchy, and below I outline both current and future groups and how they would fit into this proposed hierarchy, (not that current existing groups are denoted with an asterisk ("*"): rec.plants Hierarchy, not a group. rec.plants.misc Miscellaneous discussion, not fitting elsewhere rec.plants.orchids* (=rec.gardens.orchids) Orchids rec.plants.bonsai* (=rec.arts.bonsai) Little trees (and in my case, kindling) rec.plants.indoors Houseplants. Expected RSN rec.plants.aquatic ? (Instead of the proposed rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants) rec.plants.gardens* (=rec.gardens) rec.plants.rhododendrons Also expected RSN rec.plants.roses* (=rec.gardens.roses) rec.plants.gesenerids From mailing list rec.plants.bromeliads From mailing list rec.plants.carniverous From mailing list Note that rec.gardens may not fit well under this hierarchy, as issues of composting and design of gardens are not plant related topics per se. Perhaps consideration should be given to renaming rec.gardens to rec.gardening, or rec.plants.gardening. I have resisted the urge to classify the above groups, although tempting as "indoor" or "outdoor", because that implies a geographical bias which is best avioded, although in looking at the list above I admit I'm not happy with the number of groups at the third hierarchical lavel. An argument for this is the room it leaves for subgruops such as: rec.plants.orchids.dendrobiums rec.plants.gesenerids.streptocarpus and the like. In this context, it is not seen as "third level clutter". Note that the above list of groups is not an RFD to create those groups, for the time being, just a reclassification of existing groups is suggested, although as a side effect of this, if interest is sufficient to create some of the additional groups above, this would be a good time to bring that up. NOTE This RFD is being issued in concordance with the guidelines set in the "How to create a new usenet newsgroup" FAQ regularly posted to news.announce.newgroups. Please refer to this article if you have any questions about the newsgroup creation. Unless the discussion indicated a need to resubmit a new RFD, the CFV will be posted approximately three to four weeks after the posting of this RFD. This RFD was (cross)-posted to the following groups: rec.gardens, news.groups, rec.arts.bonsai, rec.gardens.roses, rec.gardens.orchids, *.aquaria, bionet.plants -- __ ___ richard@panchax.gryphon.com Richard J. Sexton /\ `\ / / Toronto, CANADA \ `\ `\ / / __ _ _______ `\ > >/< < /\_\ /\_\ richard@interlog.com /\______\ Masonic order __ __ / / \ `\ `\/_/_\/_/_ From richard@panchax.gryphon.com Tue Nov 8 23:46:55 EST 1994 Article: 47226 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!jabba.fdn.org!uunet!bounce-back From: richard@panchax.gryphon.com (Richard J. Sexton) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.gardens,rec.gardens.roses,rec.gardens.orchids,rec.arts.bonsai,sci.aquaria,rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,bionet.plants Subject: RFD: rec.plants.* Followup-To: news.groups Date: 1 Nov 1994 17:52:38 -0500 Organization: VRx Network Services, Inc. Lines: 118 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <396grm$ptt@rodan.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu news.announce.newgroups:5055 news.groups:98255 rec.gardens:47226 rec.gardens.roses:1909 rec.gardens.orchids:1173 rec.arts.bonsai:6824 sci.aquaria:9139 rec.aquaria:44084 alt.aquaria:26076 bionet.plants:4112 Proposal for a newsgroups reorganization of plant specific newsgroups Request for Discussion: rec.plants.* by: Richard J. Sexton (richard@panchax.gryphon.com) --------------------------------------------------- GROUPS AFFECTED: rec.gardens rec.gardens.roses rec.gardens.orchids rec.arts.bonsai *.aquaria bionet.plants INTRODUCTION Currently, the top level hierarchy for most things plant related on usenet is rec.gardens. This probably made sense back when rec.gardens was created, becuse in that timeframe most newsgruops on usenet were computer related and non computer groups took rather a back seat. Usenet has grown (sic) however, and this is no longer the case. As such, lumping everything plant related under rec.gardens does not make sense in many cases, especially when one considers possible future plant-related newsgroups. JUSTIFICATION: Many newsgroups that could not have existed back when rec.gardens was created (.orchids, .bonsai) are currently successful newgroups, yet they are classified under rec.gardens. Although this is not completely inappropriate, it does not scale well, since gardens is a subset of plants, not vice versa. One scarcly has a "garden" or orchids - one has a collection. One does not "garden" houseplants, nor does one "garden" bonsai. Future possible groups include ones for Bromeliads, Gesenerids and carniverous plants, as all have successfull mailing lists, and it's only a matter of time until they will be newsgroups. These are not best classified under rec.gardens. If we follow the International Committee on Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN) model for biological taxonomy, in spirit, but not in letter, then the higher levels of newsgroups classification should be broad sweeping classification. Rec.gardens is not, and following the idea set by the rec.animals.* reorganization, I feel it is time to re-examine the taxonomy of plant groups on usenet. PROPOSED CLASSIFICATION: I believe usenet would be well served by establishing a rec.plants hierarchy, and below I outline both current and future groups and how they would fit into this proposed hierarchy, (not that current existing groups are denoted with an asterisk ("*"): rec.plants Hierarchy, not a group. rec.plants.misc Miscellaneous discussion, not fitting elsewhere rec.plants.orchids* (=rec.gardens.orchids) Orchids rec.plants.bonsai* (=rec.arts.bonsai) Little trees (and in my case, kindling) rec.plants.indoors Houseplants. Expected RSN rec.plants.aquatic ? (Instead of the proposed rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants) rec.plants.gardens* (=rec.gardens) rec.plants.rhododendrons Also expected RSN rec.plants.roses* (=rec.gardens.roses) rec.plants.gesenerids From mailing list rec.plants.bromeliads From mailing list rec.plants.carniverous From mailing list Note that rec.gardens may not fit well under this hierarchy, as issues of composting and design of gardens are not plant related topics per se. Perhaps consideration should be given to renaming rec.gardens to rec.gardening, or rec.plants.gardening. I have resisted the urge to classify the above groups, although tempting as "indoor" or "outdoor", because that implies a geographical bias which is best avioded, although in looking at the list above I admit I'm not happy with the number of groups at the third hierarchical lavel. An argument for this is the room it leaves for subgruops such as: rec.plants.orchids.dendrobiums rec.plants.gesenerids.streptocarpus and the like. In this context, it is not seen as "third level clutter". Note that the above list of groups is not an RFD to create those groups, for the time being, just a reclassification of existing groups is suggested, although as a side effect of this, if interest is sufficient to create some of the additional groups above, this would be a good time to bring that up. NOTE This RFD is being issued in concordance with the guidelines set in the "How to create a new usenet newsgroup" FAQ regularly posted to news.announce.newgroups. Please refer to this article if you have any questions about the newsgroup creation. Unless the discussion indicated a need to resubmit a new RFD, the CFV will be posted approximately three to four weeks after the posting of this RFD. This RFD was (cross)-posted to the following groups: rec.gardens, news.groups, rec.arts.bonsai, rec.gardens.roses, rec.gardens.orchids, *.aquaria, bionet.plants -- __ ___ richard@panchax.gryphon.com Richard J. Sexton /\ `\ / / Toronto, CANADA \ `\ `\ / / __ _ _______ `\ > >/< < /\_\ /\_\ richard@interlog.com /\______\ Masonic order __ __ / / \ `\ `\/_/_\/_/_ From janette-wallis@uokhsc.edu Tue Nov 8 23:47:25 EST 1994 Article: 47227 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!bounce-back From: janette-wallis@uokhsc.edu (Janette Wallis) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.gardens,rec.aquaria,rec.pets.herp Subject: RFD: rec.ponds Followup-To: news.groups Date: 1 Nov 1994 17:54:41 -0500 Organization: Health Sciences Center, University of Oklahoma Lines: 139 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <396gvh$q2p@rodan.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu news.announce.newgroups:5059 news.groups:98259 rec.gardens:47227 rec.aquaria:44085 rec.pets.herp:23519 REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION Name: REC.PONDS Status: unmoderated Distribution: worldwide Summary: Discussions related to the development and maintenance of water gardens or ponds. Proposed by: janette-wallis@uokhsc.edu This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) on the creation of an unmoderated newsgroup, rec.ponds. PROPOSED CHARTER OF REC.PONDS Preamble Rec.ponds is an unmoderated newsgroup to provide a forum for the discussion of all aspects of ponds or water gardens. This Request For Discussion puts forth the suggested name of "rec.ponds", after a straw poll was conducted during previous discussion of a "rec.gardens.ponds" group. The results indicated that "rec.ponds" was preferred by the majority of the voters. The Rec.ponds newsgroup will appeal to a wide range of people involved in both the recreational and professional aspects of establishing and maintaining a pond or water garden. We'll have novices to water gardening as well as experts, the hobbyist as well as genuine botanists and ichthyologists. Even students wishing to find help with science projects may decide to read Rec.ponds. All of these people will be welcomed to share ideas, ask questions, or simply lurk and learn. Sphere of Interests Rec.ponds is dedicated to the development and maintenance of water gardens. Examples of discussion topics might include: *Building a pond/water garden: Details will be shared regarding best materials to use, procedures for making the pond secure, and appropriate placement of the pond. Or, in the case of a naturally occurring pond, what can be done to make it more "user friendly"? We'll have tips on building a waterfall, installing a fountain, whether to use a filter, and how to install a biological filter. Also, we may give information on lighting and how to safely run electrical lines to the pool area. *Establishing a perfect ecosystem: Where else can you create your own ecosystem and watch it evolve? We'll have discussions on water quality; ratio of plant life to animal life; plant/animal interactions, etc. *Plant life: We'll discuss which plants are best suited for our water gardens. Which plants need a lot of sunlight, which will survive in the pond over winter, which need to be taken indoors, etc? The Rec.ponds newsgroup will serve as a forum for discussing plant diseases and cures, when to divide, and how to propagate our plants. We'll also share information on establishing an area for bog plants. *Fish: We'll share information on fish behavior, biology, and health. For example: Which fish are compatible? What's the maximum number of fish for the size of a pond? What conditions should exist in the pond so the fish will breed? How do we protect the fry from danger and see that they grow into healthy adults? Which diseases are likely to effect pond fish? How much should we feed the fish, and how often? *Amphibians and Reptiles: We'll discuss the biology, health, and behavior of frogs, newts, salamanders, turtles, etc. that either come naturally to the pond or are placed there by us. Which ones get along? * Other Environmental Concerns: In Rec.ponds, we'll discuss how to make certain the pond is not a safety hazard for small children or pets. How can we attract butterflies? Should we attract snails? Also, how do we guard against unwanted visitors (raccoons, cats, snakes, herons) that may prey on the fish and/or plants in a pond? What about the use of fertilizers or insecticides near the pond? Rec.ponds can be a place to exchange information on (non-political) conservation issues. * Miscellaneous: Students can use rec.ponds as a place for learning more about plant and animal life in and around water. We may exchange information regarding suppliers of equipment, literature regarding water garden techniques, location of other electronic resources, etc. (However, Rec.ponds is *not* intended as a forum for commercial transactions with respect to sale of plants, fish, or pond equipment.) * In the future, rec.ponds may develop FAQ's that address each of the above topics. RATIONALE Because most water gardeners have both plant and animal life in their pond, discussions on development and care of ponds has previously been split between rec.gardens, rec.aquaria, and rec.pets.herp. There is no newsgroup dedicated only to the interests of water gardeners. CROSS POSTINGS This RFD is being posted to news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, rec.gardens, rec.aquaria, rec.pets.herp. All discussion will take place in the group "news.groups." DISCUSSION This is the second posting of the Charter for a newsgroup for ponds. The first posting proposed the name "rec.gardens.ponds", but with the same charter described above. That posting occurred on 6 October 1994. The only issue raised during the discussion period was that of the newsgroup's name. Because the discussion grew quite heated, a Straw Poll was conducted by Wayne Powell (wap@interlog.com). Straw Poll results were posted on 25 October 1994. The majority of votes (50.4%) were for "rec.ponds", with "rec.gardens.ponds" a distant 33.1%. (Please contact Wayne for straw poll questions/details.) This second posting of the RFD reflects the newly agreed upon name "rec.ponds." It is being posted to news.announce.newgroups on 27 October 1994 and continued discussion regarding the contents of the proposal will last for approximately one more week. If no major changes are required to the proposed charter, then a Call for Votes (CFV) will then be issued. An independent third party, from the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers will be asked to conduct the vote. This RFD is being posted according to the guidelines set forth in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup." Please refer to this document if you have questions about the newsgroup creation process. To pass, the proposal must receive 100 more "Yes" votes than "No" votes and at least two thirds of the votes must be positive. Therefore, if you have an interest in this newsgroup please make it known through discussion on news.groups (and please remember to vote when the time comes). From lhoover@ivory.trentu.ca Tue Nov 8 23:49:33 EST 1994 Article: 47248 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!blaze.trentu.ca!ivory.trentu.ca!LHOOVER From: lhoover@ivory.trentu.ca (Larry Hoover, Chemistry Department) Subject: germination info Message-ID: <1994Nov2.032957.13939@blaze.trentu.ca> Sender: news@blaze.trentu.ca (USENET News System) Reply-To: lhoover@ivory.trentu.ca Organization: Trent University, Peterborough Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 03:29:57 GMT Lines: 13 I've collected some seeds from gladiolus, daffodils, and peonies, which I'd like to grow out just for the experience. I haven't found anything in my gardening books which discusses non-vegetative propogation of such plants. I'd appreciate hearing if any knows if these require pre-chilling, scarification, or whatever. Even better would be to find out if there was a book or books which deals with sexual propogation of these sorts of plants. Thanx in advance. ******************************************************************************** Larry E. Hoover internet: lhoover@trentu.ca c/o Chemistry Department lab: (705)748-1201 Trent University, Peterborough, Ont. K9J 7B8 home: (705)799-2174 ******************************************************************************** From russe@u.washington.edu Tue Nov 8 23:49:51 EST 1994 Article: 47308 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!cs.uoregon.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!homer08.u.washington.edu!russe From: Karen Russell Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Moss Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 19:45:56 -0800 Organization: University of Washington Lines: 6 Message-ID: References: <389dac$6tf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: homer08.u.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <389dac$6tf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> A tip I got from some bamboo people is to smash and smear a slug over the surface (we were talking about mossy rocks). I didn't see the original post, was it from a slug infested place like Seattle? Karen From dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu Tue Nov 8 23:50:35 EST 1994 Article: 47214 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!im.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller From: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Message-ID: <9411021530.AA10063@im4.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Moss Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 10:30:16 EST X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA01677; Wed, 2 Nov 94 08:55:49 -0800 X-Received: by pobox1.pa.dec.com; id AA07913; Wed, 2 Nov 94 07:32:20 -0800 X-Received: from im.lcs.mit.edu by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/10Aug94) id AA15577; Wed, 2 Nov 94 07:29:31 -0800 X-Received: from im4.lcs.mit.edu by im.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/IM-1.2S) id AA22344; Wed, 2 Nov 94 10:30:17 EST X-Received: by im4.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/IM-1.2C) id AA10063; Wed, 2 Nov 94 10:30:16 EST X-To: rec.gardens.usenet@decwrl.dec.com Lines: 52 In Message: <37627s$3dm@panix.com> buonocor@panix.com (James Buonocore) asked: > I have recently purchased a house and the lawn is a combination of grass, > weeds and moss. > > Anyway, I'm looking for suggestions on how to cultivate and spread the > moss. I don't mind a little grass here and there. I suppose the best > way to get rid of the weeds would be to pull them, second would be round > up. But my real interest is in encouraging the moss. Any suggestions? I have been successful at transplanting bits of moss from one location to another. Once established in the new location, moss spreads fairly quickly. During your damp season (spring, fall, winter) pick out pieces of moss and press them into the dirt where you'd like them to grow. During dry periods you can take clumps of moss and crumble them up and put in a baggie. Then sprinkle them where you want moss when it gets wet again. Last year, I successfully started moss in an area that I was sure was too dry by placing it in the shade of a gnarled tree branch I'd placed on the ground there. It is now spreading out into the sun. During the summer (our driest season here in the northeast) it gets rather dry but perks right up as soon as it's gray and rainy for a couple of days. And in Article: <386dta$odc@newsbf01.news.aol.com> billhillno@aol.com (BillhillNO) asked: > My wife wants to plant moss .... Anybody know if there's a source to > acquire different varieties from? Are there any tricks to planting the > stuff? Anyone have any creative ideas on how best to display it? We > live in a mountainous wet area with lots of trees and shade. I find mine in the woods. That way I know that I'll get kinds which will grow successfully in my area. I note the kind of growing conditions and try to duplicate them where I transplant them to. You don't need very much moss if you are willing to be patient. See above for how to transplant. It is surprisingly easy. I try to keep different kinds apart from each other because some are more aggressive will overgrow others. Also, some seem to be able to take a bit of trampling, while other kinds won't tolerate it. I put the trample resistant ones between stepping stones, and the non-trample resistant ones in more out-of-the-way places. --Jill A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | MILLER MICROCOMPUTER SERVICES | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm -0500(EST)| Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | MMSFORTH: The cure for the common code.| 42 18'00.79" N, 71 22'27.68" W| From LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu Tue Nov 8 23:53:27 EST 1994 Article: 47238 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!hepmc7.phy.duke.edu!user From: LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu (L. R. Fortney) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: zones, what are they? Date: 3 Nov 1994 13:10:30 GMT Organization: Physics Department, Duke Univ Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <1994Nov2.220605.34903@waikato.ac.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: hepmc7.phy.duke.edu In article <1994Nov2.220605.34903@waikato.ac.nz>, gallbrook@waikato.ac.nz (Georgina J. Allbrook, Physics Dept.) wrote: > Hi, > Today I connected to TimeLife's virtual garden and searched the > database for plants. A enjoyable experience, but I have a ploblem. The > database talks about zones 1-11. Presumably they are temperature zones, but > what sort of temperature do the numbers refer to? I live in the North Island > of New Zealand. Greetings from the physics dept at Duke! The zone classifications mainly apply to cold hardiness and don't give much information about a plant's tolerance for heat, humidity, etc. If you see a range of zones indicated for a given plant and the larger number is 9 or 10, you can be fairly sure the plant will tolerate summer heat, but an upper limit of 8 is more common, and in my experience doesn't mean much of anything. Compared to most of the US you live in a gardening paradise as far as climate goes. Only our west coast from midway up California up into BC, Canada has a climate that compares with yours. I live in NC near the zone 7 and 8 boundary, but we get well below freezing in the winter and often have 90% humidity days up around 35 in the summer. Summer survival during a long hot growing season in high humidity is at least as restrictive to plant selection as winter hardiness. My wife and I were in NZ last Nov.-Dec. We were there a little before peak bloom time, but the public gardens were still fantastic, particularly the perennial border in Christchurch and the rock garden in Dunedin. -- Lloyd Fortney ---Opinions, just opinions--- From bob.batson@sound.com Tue Nov 8 23:53:52 EST 1994 Article: 47233 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!iat.holonet.net!sound!bob.batson Distribution: world Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: zones, what are they? From: bob.batson@sound.com (Bob Batson) Message-ID: <6b.5499.2616@sound.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 18:18:00 -0600 Organization: Sound Advice, Inc. 816-436-1492 Lines: 42 In a message dated 11-02-94, Georgina J. Allbrook said to All: > Message-ID: <1994Nov2.220605.34903@waikato.ac.nz> >Hi, > Today I connected to TimeLife's virtual garden and searched the >database for plants. A enjoyable experience, but I have a ploblem. >The database talks about zones 1-11. Presumably they are temperature >zones, but what sort of temperature do the numbers refer to? I live >in the North Island of New Zealand. We have a temperate climate >summer temperatures range from 20-30 degrees and winter 5-15 degrees. >It never snows and it rains all year round. What zone would I be in? >Any information on what each zone stands for or what major cities are >in each zone would be appreciated. Yours >Georgina. The US Department of Agriculture has "divided" the continental US into areas that experience about the same low temperature in wintertime and can grow overwinter some representative persistent plants in each zone. For example, as you experience winter temperatures of 5-15 degrees Celsius, you would probably be in zone 11. I don't know the temperature range for this zone as my map only goes to zone 10. The temperatures in this zone are -1.1 to 4.4 celsius and some of the representative plants are Bougainvillea (Bougainvillea spectabilis), Golden shower (Cassia fistula), lemon eucalyptus (Eucalyptus citriodora), rubber plant (Ficus elastica), ensete (Ensete ventricosum), and royal palm (Roystonea regia). Your area of the world sound quite balmy to me where in my zone (5) summertime temperatures range from 23.8 upto 35+ degrees celsius whereas winter temperatures range from -28.9 to -23.3 degrees celsius. Some of the representative persistent plants in zone 5 are flowering dogwood, slender deutzia, common privet, boston ivy, japanese rose, and japanese yew. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W bob.batson@sound.com USDA Zone 5 --- þ MR/2 2.11 #243 þ Dachshunds are really small crocodiles with fur. From pascal@tfs.com Tue Nov 8 23:54:21 EST 1994 Article: 47395 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!tfs.com!usenet From: "Freeman P. Pascal IV" Subject: Re: zones, what are they? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@tfs.com Organization: TRW Financial Systems References: <9411040941593788@ectech.com> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1994 01:09:22 GMT Lines: 45 > > > G{|}Hi, > G{|} Today I connected to TimeLife's virtual garden and searched the > G{|}database for plants. A enjoyable experience, but I have a ploblem. The > G{|}database talks about zones 1-11. Presumably they are temperature zones, bu > G{|}what sort of temperature do the numbers refer to? I live in the North Isla > G{|}of New Zealand. We have a temperate climate summer temperatures range from > G{|}20-30 degrees and winter 5-15 degrees. It never snows and it rains all yea > G{|}round. What zone would I be in? Any information on what each zone stands > G{|}or what major cities are in each zone would be appreciated. > G{|}Yours > G{|}Georgina. > > Georgina, > The zones referred to would be the USDAs (US Dept. of Agriculture) > hardiness zones. I'm not sure which you would be classified in, but > maybe that will give you a direction to look. > > Steve > Internet:steve.pickett@ectech.com > Riverside, California, USA > --- > * QMPro 1.52 * Help! My computer crashed, and "I can't get up!" The "Zones" generally refer to the annual _minimum_ temperature. As You never freeze you'd be in a zone 10 or 11. This can be unreliable in determining which plants will do well, however. For instance. Here in coastal California I can grow things that are a zone 8, that I couldn't grow in Floida where I lived in a zone 8. (I'm in a 9 or 10 now) The reason is that in Florida, although it might freeze each winter there would also be weeks between the freezes where we were running the air-conditioner because it was so hot! Plants really hate that. Plants that have a range of zones (4-8, for instance) will die over winter in a zone 2 or 3, likewise summers may be too warm in zones 9 or 10. Or they may not. My summers are cool. The USDA zones are very useful for determining winter hardiness but they don't address chilling requirements or heat tolerance well. I hope this helps rather than confuses. :) --Julie Pascal From misuraca@delphi.com Tue Nov 8 23:54:29 EST 1994 Article: 47348 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: misuraca@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: zones, what are they? Date: Sat, 5 Nov 94 09:49:04 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <9411040941593788@ectech.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1e.delphi.com X-To: Steve Pickett Steve Pickett writes: >G{|}of New Zealand. We have a temperate climate summer temperatures range from >G{|}20-30 degrees and winter 5-15 degrees. It never snows and it rains all yea >G{|}round. What zone would I be in? Any information on what each zone stands >G{|}or what major cities are in each zone would be appreciated. I am assuming you are talking about degrees celcius. The following is a list of the zones and the minimum temperatures for each: zone 1 -45 c zone 2 -45 to -40 c zone 3 -40 to -34 c zone 4 -34 to -28 c zone 5 -28 to -23 c zone 6 -23 to -17 c zone 7 -17 to -12 c zone 8 -12 to -6 c zone 9 -6 to -1 c zone 10 -1 to 4 c My guess would be that you are in zone 10 and can grow just about anything! Lucky you! I'm in zone 5/6. From p00511@psilink.com Tue Nov 8 23:54:55 EST 1994 Article: 47424 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psinntp!news.worldlink.com!usenet From: "Jim Chinnis" Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: zones, what are they? Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 20:03:48 -0400 Organization: Decision Science Associates, Inc. Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2993082577.0.p00511@psilink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: worldlink.com X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.6.2) gallbrook@waikato.ac.nz (Georgina J. Allbrook, Physics Dept.) wrote: >Hi, > Today I connected to TimeLife's virtual garden and searched the >database for plants. A enjoyable experience, but I have a ploblem. The >database talks about zones 1-11. Presumably they are temperature zones, but >what sort of temperature do the numbers refer to? I live in the North Island >of New Zealand. We have a temperate climate summer temperatures range from >20-30 degrees and winter 5-15 degrees. It never snows and it rains all year >round. What zone would I be in? Any information on what each zone stands for >or what major cities are in each zone would be appreciated. Hello Georgina--The zones are United States Department of Agriculture zones. They are a fairly crude way of designating the level of hardiness needed by plants in a given region. Zones are based *solely* on the average minimum temperature. Zone 11 corresponds to an average low of 40 degrees F (about 5 degrees C), so I would guess you are in zone 11. Zone 10 corresponds to 30 to 40 degrees F, and so on, each lower numbered zone getting colder by 10 degrees F. In terms of cities, you might compare with Miami, Florida, Los Angeles, California and such. Northern New Zealand sounds good to me! /Jim Chinnis, Manassas, Virginia, USA, (Zone 6 and 7 border!) From una.smith@yale.edu Tue Nov 8 23:56:18 EST 1994 Article: 47271 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!purdue!news.bu.edu!noc.near.net!saturn.caps.maine.edu!news.ycc.yale.edu!una From: una@doliolum.biology.yale.edu (Una Smith) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Need help with POND Date: 3 Nov 1994 22:32:55 GMT Organization: Department of Biology, Yale University Lines: 33 Message-ID: <39boen$asb@news.ycc.yale.edu> References: <1994Nov2.143318.29616@liberty.uc.wlu.edu> Reply-To: una.smith@yale.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: doliolum.biology.yale.edu dvanasse@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Dirk van Assendelft) writes: >Three weeks ago, I fertilized the yard, and I was not careful >enough to keep the fertilizer out of the pond. Well, two weeks >later, the pond is filthy green, with filimentous algea all over >everything. Two weeks? The culprit is not fertilizer you dropped into the pond. The culprit *might* be excess fertilizer seeping into the pond with groundwater. You haven't said whether the pond is lined, but I suspect it does receive groundwater. The algal bloom might be unrelated to your fertilizing the yard. Algal blooms occur in nature due to many factors besides nutrient availability: temperature and pH are also factors. >Have I spelled doom for the pond this winter? ... No. >I am very worried, to say the least... Why do you think the algae might be a problem? Why does the onset of winter make you worry about the algae? I'd consider it a good thing: the fish will have more to eat. -- Una Smith una.smith@yale.edu Dept. of Biology, Yale Univ., New Haven, CT 06520-8104 From dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu Tue Nov 8 23:56:38 EST 1994 Article: 47212 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!im.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller From: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Message-ID: <9411021521.AA10023@im4.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Re: do bees and butterflies compete? Date: Wed, 2 Nov 94 10:21:10 EST X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA01632; Wed, 2 Nov 94 08:55:35 -0800 X-Received: by pobox1.pa.dec.com; id AA07830; Wed, 2 Nov 94 07:26:30 -0800 X-Received: from im.lcs.mit.edu by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/10Aug94) id AA14698; Wed, 2 Nov 94 07:20:25 -0800 X-Received: from im4.lcs.mit.edu by im.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/IM-1.2S) id AA22312; Wed, 2 Nov 94 10:21:11 EST X-Received: by im4.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/IM-1.2C) id AA10023; Wed, 2 Nov 94 10:21:10 EST X-To: rec.gardens.usenet@decwrl.dec.com Lines: 26 In Article: lkahn@mitre.org (Mr Squop) asked: > > This year my annual garden had LOADS of bumblebees around all of the > time (they especially liked the Victoria blue salvia) but a lot fewer > butterflies than I'm used to. Last year I seemed to get a lot more > butterflies and fewer bees. The types of plants in the garden have been > mostly the same from year to year so I know it isn't that. Could it be > weather related? Or are bees more agressive and once they find a nice > source of nectar do they tend to chase the butterflies away? > Larry > -- > Larry Kahn "Winning isn't everything, but losing sucks." > lkahn@mitre.org More likely something else such as pesticide use in the neighborhood or bad weather has killed your bitterfiles in the egg or caterpillar stage. Remember, baby butterflies are the same caterpillars that people spray because they are eating their plants! --Jill A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | MILLER MICROCOMPUTER SERVICES | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm -0500(EST)| Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | MMSFORTH: The cure for the common code.| 42 18'00.79" N, 71 22'27.68" W| From psmith@superior.carleton.ca Tue Nov 8 23:57:47 EST 1994 Article: 47292 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!psmith From: psmith@superior.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) Subject: Scythes (correction of subject header) Message-ID: Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator) Organization: Carleton University References: Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 18:28:26 GMT Lines: 18 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:13106 rec.gardens:47292 In psmith@superior.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes: >I am considering buying a scythe for a couple of purposes: >PRIMARY USE > vegetation control around garden bed perimeters (before you suggest >a sickle or other small device, I'm talking multiple 1/4 acre beds) >SECONDARY USE > I may try to cut a bit of straw for mulch (would consider >possibility of a cradle attachment for this, if it is removable) >So what I'd like to know is what experiences others have had using a >good quality scythe for these and other purposes. Assuming that one >keeps the blade good and sharp, can I expect it to do a reasonable >job on these and other tasks? (Yes, I am in good physical condition). >Your experience and stories and greatly appreciated! From frost@sbcm.com Tue Nov 8 23:58:41 EST 1994 Article: 47472 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!psinntp!sbcm!sbcm.com!frost From: frost@sbcm.com (Joyce Frost) Subject: Bean Plant from Asia (SriLanka) Message-ID: <1994Nov2.230505.12533@sbcm.com> Lines: 11 Sender: usenet@sbcm.com (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: sbcm93 Reply-To: frost@sbcm.com (Joyce Frost) Organization: Sumitomo Bank Capital Markets Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 23:05:05 GMT Many years ago (10-12yrs) Readers Digest had a lengthy article about a bean plant which had much higher protein content than soy beans or any other type of edible plant. Even the leaves, roots and stock were useful and edible. My recollection was that it was discovered in the jungles of Sri Lanka and it was a creeper. Does anyone have any info on this plant, the date of the article or perhaps how I can get a copy of the article. Please send E-mail directly to ravi@sbcm.com or to me at frost@sbcm.com. Thank you. Joyce. From cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu Tue Nov 8 23:59:03 EST 1994 Article: 47387 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!news.uh.edu!oac4.hsc.uth.tmc.edu!yggdrasil.mda.uth.tmc.edu!user From: cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Cyndi Smith) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Bean Plant from Asia (SriLanka) Date: 4 Nov 1994 21:10:08 GMT Organization: MD Anderson Cancer Center Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <1994Nov2.230505.12533@sbcm.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: yggdrasil.mda.uth.tmc.edu In article <1994Nov2.230505.12533@sbcm.com>, frost@sbcm.com (Joyce Frost) wrote: > Many years ago (10-12yrs) Readers Digest had a lengthy article about a > bean plant which had much higher protein content than soy beans or > any other type of edible plant. Even the leaves, roots and stock were > useful and edible. My recollection was that it was discovered in the jungles > of Sri Lanka and it was a creeper. Does anyone have any info on this > plant, the date of the article or perhaps how I can get a copy of the article. > Please send E-mail directly to ravi@sbcm.com or to me at frost@sbcm.com. This MAY be the creeper that a friend of mine (from SriLanka) gave me. It is long beans (2-3') that taste pretty much like regular ole' green beans although they are best if picked early (before the "beans" form). The leaves are arranged in 3's with the center one being "heart-shaped" and the outer ones having large outer (away from the center leaf) lobes and small inner lobes. The flowers are small (1-2" at most), white with purple throat and they come out at sunrise and wither by noon - the bees, etc. love them! If this sounds like the creeper from RD, let me know and if you like, I will send you some seed from mine. -cyndi -cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu -- Cyndi Smith Computer Programmer Department of Biomathematics M.D.Anderson Cancer Center, Houston TX Phone: 713/794-4938 Fax: 713/792-4262 From david@atheist.tamu.edu Wed Nov 9 00:01:40 EST 1994 Article: 47337 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!atheist!david From: david@atheist.tamu.edu (David Browne) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Organic Gardening Book Recommendations? Date: 5 Nov 1994 04:01:31 GMT Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Tx. Lines: 37 Message-ID: <39f02r$27a@news.tamu.edu> References: <39bkr9$odm@news.mic.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: atheist.tamu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Malu Roldan (mroldan@agsm.ucla.edu) wrote: : Hello! : I'm just starting out with organic gardening and was wondering if : you would be kind enough to share with me your recommendations for the : most useful organic gardening books. I'm interested in books with : information on soil prep, composting, propagation tips for various : plants [esp. herbs and vegetables], and pest control. I'm trying not : to buy a whole lot of books so I would like to hear you about your : all-time favorites and what you think is essential for a home : gardening library. : Thanks! HI! The first organic gardening book I bought was "Rodale's Chemical-free Yard & Garden". It was really helpful in getting started. The next one I bought was "Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening". It is also a great book and is more comprehensive than the other. I do recommend both as they both contain material that the other does not. I also highly recommend Organic Gardening Magazine. I don't think I make it manyu days in high gardening time without referring to both books and back issues of OG. I cannot heap praise high enough. Hope this helps. Rachel (David's wife) -- /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // David C. Browne "You are a victim of your own // // paradigm." // // david@atheist.tamu.edu // /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From hmiddlet@uoguelph.ca Wed Nov 9 00:01:53 EST 1994 Article: 47538 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca!irwin.cs.uoguelph.ca!hmiddlet From: hmiddlet@uoguelph.ca (Heather Middleton) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Organic Gardening Book Recommendations? Date: 7 Nov 1994 16:35:06 GMT Organization: University of Guelph Lines: 20 Message-ID: <39lkvq$pgk@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> References: <39bkr9$odm@news.mic.ucla.edu> <39f02r$27a@news.tamu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: irwin.cs.uoguelph.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] : : I'm just starting out with organic gardening and was wondering if : : you would be kind enough to share with me your recommendations for the : : most useful organic gardening books. I'm interested in books with The books that I recomend the most are Geoff Hamilton's book " The organic garden" by crown publishers 1987 and " Rodale's Chemical-free yard and garden". I like the first book particularly because of the good pictures and step by step process. The second book has tones of good information about a lot of stuff, particularly the science of this aspect of organic gardening. If you are interested in pest control in organic gardens, I picked up a really good book by Sunset on organic pest control. It's got excilent pictures and ideas + one that I would recomend for people who are just starting out in organic gardening and need a quick trouble shooting book ( I lots my copy so I don't know the specific title ). Heather Middleton Environmental biology University of Guelph e-mail: hmiddlet@uoguelph.ca From dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu Wed Nov 9 00:04:16 EST 1994 Article: 47307 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!im.lcs.mit.edu!dmiller From: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) Message-ID: <9411041326.AA21051@im4.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Scythes Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 08:26:41 EST X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA20945; Fri, 4 Nov 94 05:31:46 -0800 X-Received: by pobox1.pa.dec.com; id AA12993; Fri, 4 Nov 94 05:31:43 -0800 X-Received: from im.lcs.mit.edu by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/10Aug94) id AA15204; Fri, 4 Nov 94 05:25:55 -0800 X-Received: from im4.lcs.mit.edu by im.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/IM-1.2S) id AA25707; Fri, 4 Nov 94 08:26:42 EST X-Received: by im4.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/IM-1.2C) id AA21051; Fri, 4 Nov 94 08:26:41 EST X-To: misc.rural.usenet@decwrl.dec.com, rec.gardens.usenet@decwrl.dec.com Lines: 35 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:13109 rec.gardens:47307 In Article: psmith@superior.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) asked: >I am considering buying a scythe for a couple of purposes: >PRIMARY USE > vegetation control around garden bed perimeters (before you suggest >a sickle or other small device, I'm talking multiple 1/4 acre beds) >SECONDARY USE > I may try to cut a bit of straw for mulch (would consider >possibility of a cradle attachment for this, if it is removable) >So what I'd like to know is what experiences others have had using a >good quality scythe for these and other purposes. Assuming that one >keeps the blade good and sharp, can I expect it to do a reasonable >job on these and other tasks? (Yes, I am in good physical condition). >Your experience and stories and greatly appreciated! I have never used a scythe myself, but my Dad used one, and I've watched others use one in my youth. Learning to use one took a while but they seemed to work very effectively. The trick was to keep it VERY sharp to the extent of resharpening it every ten minutes or so. You also had to be careful not to hit rocks while you were using it. As far as I can remember, the cradel attachments were generally removable. Lets keep this old skill from dying out! Just my $.02. --Jill A. Richard & Jill A. Miller | MILLER MICROCOMPUTER SERVICES | InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu | 61 Lake Shore Road | Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm -0500(EST)| Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA | MMSFORTH: The cure for the common code.| 42 18'00.79" N, 71 22'27.68" W| From walstrom@mr.net Wed Nov 9 00:05:18 EST 1994 Article: 47371 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!winternet.com!news2.mr.net!mr.net!dialip-2-l1.mr.net!walstrom From: walstrom@mr.net (Tom Walstrom) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Wildflowers -- Fall Dormant planting Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 20:19:47 Organization: Legislative Auditor Lines: 8 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: dialip-2-l1.mr.net Keywords: wildflowers X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] I'm planning a fall dormant wildflower planting. I've prepared the 1/2 acre (approximate) by roundup and then tilling about 4 times this summer to eradicate the weeds. Looks like bare soil now more or less. Any advice on sowing the seeds? I've got about 3 lbs. forb seeds and 6 lbs. native grasses (mostly little blue stem and side oats gramma). I've heard that bran or sand are good additions to the seed mix. Comments? Any advice appreciated. Tom From rlord@k12.ucs.umass.edu Wed Nov 9 00:06:08 EST 1994 Article: 47420 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!umassd.edu!news.umass.edu!k12.ucs.umass.edu!k12.ucs.umass.edu!rlord From: rlord@k12.ucs.umass.edu (Robert Lord (ARJHS)) Subject: Arboretum Project Message-ID: <1994Nov6.132321.27358@k12.ucs.umass.edu> Sender: usenet@k12.ucs.umass.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: k12.ucs.umass.edu Reply-To: rlord@k12.ucs.umass.edu (Robert Lord (ARJHS)) Organization: University of Massachusetts/Amherst K-12 Information System Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 13:23:21 GMT Lines: 31 I am a mathematics/science teacher at the Amherst Reg. Junior High in Amherst Massachusetts and started a school arboretum 6 years ago. The project is a shoestring operation...no funding other than donations. I have now over 50 trees in a wide variety of species...coming from nurseries, having been purchased, the Arnold Arboretum, private donations as well as >from educational institutions such as the Liberty Elm Project anf the American Chestnut Society. Local Organizations have also been kind in their donations; the local Rotary club has been very generous as well as the advocacy of the Garden club. Curriculum has been developed that utililizes the arboretum in many ways. Some of the lessons include: maintaining a yearly record of the diameter of each tree @ 30 cm, each trees height is found by either similar trianges, shadowing or by the trigonometric ratios using a clinometer and the data kept on a spreadsheet for comparative analysis; mapping by triangulation of tree location, estimation of board feet, and many others. It is a project that has a great deal of possibilities but limited by my ability to do all that is needed in a very crowded regular schedule of classes. We have built a number of 'kid proof' tools to help in the project: calipers for measuring the diameter growth and clinometers for height and even crude theodolites for mapping. We seek any assistance in finding old survey equipment that might be donated, any tools such as a brush hog to clear areas for planting, chipper for mulching aronf the trees, benches to put in the arboretum for the local community to enjoy and any other tools used in the care of trees.If you are able to help please contact me at my e mail address and I'll reply at once......we hope to have a rare tree in the spring added to our collection...one I saw while at the Kew Gardens in London...if all goes well a Quercus rubra Aurea will be arriving (as a seedling) in April. We are currently trying to build a nursery....again materials are needed...and install a water delivery system that can be closer to the planting sites....always $ and time and resources limit us. From seremjia@it.uwp.edu Wed Nov 9 00:08:19 EST 1994 Article: 47503 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.uwp.edu!it!seremjia From: seremjia@it.uwp.edu (Peggy Seremjian) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: WORM BOX Date: 8 Nov 1994 13:43:09 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside Lines: 23 Message-ID: <39nv9d$496@cs.uwp.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: it.uwp.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] : Sorry for the ignorance and I hope I am not repeating something already : discussed here. I have heard mention of a "worm box" and wondered what : exactly this is. Is it that this is one of those questions one really feels : stupid to ask because all it actually is, is a box full of worms ? I : realise it is to acquire worm castings for compost but was wondering about : how to maintain it etc. Clive - worms are the best pets to have! Quiet, hardworking.. I have mine in a plastic container I got from Walmart. Its approx the size of tthe plastic bins the post office uses. I drilled drain holes in the bottom, and use the top as the drain pan. Then, either use half finished compost or sopping wet ripped up newspaper as bedding, get some yummy wormfood (mine _love_ coffeegrounds) and bury it in the bedding. Add worms, cover it with something (old carpet is great) to keep it dark and moist and change the bedding to remove those rich castings about every three months or so (you will be able to tell when it needs changing). There are two types of worms used for composing. I _think_ (someone help me out here) they are lumbricus rubellus and lumbricus foetida, but Latin is not my strong suit. If you intend to do your worming outside, they also love manure. Dont let it get too hot, tho! Peg is Wisc. From barker@geology.wisc.edu Wed Nov 9 00:08:28 EST 1994 Article: 47509 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.doit.wisc.edu!ice.geology.wisc.edu!not-for-mail From: barker@geology.wisc.edu (William Wayne Barker) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: WORM BOX Date: 8 Nov 1994 08:46:30 -0600 Organization: Department of Geology & Geophysics, University of Wisconsin - Madison. Lines: 7 Message-ID: <39o306$hgp@ice.geology.wisc.edu> References: <39nv9d$496@cs.uwp.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ice.geology.wisc.edu Hey, Wisconsin must be a hotbed of vermicomposting! Just a reminder that Mary Appelhoff (sp?) wrote a nice little book entitled "Worms Eat My Garbage" which really is a good introduction to this interesting little pastime. Also, red wigglers make great fishbait! Bream love 'em! Almost as much as catalpa (catawba) worms! B-> From jleblanc@nature.berkeley.edu Thu Nov 10 23:44:32 EST 1994 Article: 47487 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!mul1mac33.berkeley.edu!user From: jleblanc@nature.berkeley.edu (John W. LeBlanc) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Experimental Horticulture Date: 3 Nov 1994 20:54:18 GMT Organization: Univ. of Calif. Cooperative Extension Lines: 83 Message-ID: References: <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mul1mac33.berkeley.edu In article <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, XJNJ40A@prodigy.com (ANDREW SINGER ) wrote: > I am interested if anyone knows of any universities/government agencies > or private institutions that are experimenting with the idea of using a > select grouping of plants to extract "environmentally harmful" substances > from human originated wastewater. A very quick search revealed these references to Artificial Wetlands for treating wastewater. I'm sure there are many more. 1. VANOOSTROM AJ; RUSSELL JM. DENITRIFICATION IN CONSTRUCTED WASTEWATER WETLANDS RECEIVING HIGH CONCENTRATIONS OF NITRATE. WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1994, V29 N4:7-14. 2. VINCENT G. USE OF ARTIFICIAL WETLANDS FOR THE TREATMENT OF RECREATIONAL WASTEWATER. WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1994, V29 N4:67-70. 3. HATANO K; FREDERICK DJ; MOORE JA. MICROBIAL ECOLOGY OF CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS USED FOR TREATING PULP MILL WASTEWATER. WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1994, V29 N4:233-239. 4. FREDERICK PC; MCGEHEE SM. WADING BIRD USE OF WASTEWATER TREATMENT WETLANDS IN CENTRAL FLORIDA, USA. COLONIAL WATERBIRDS, 1994, V17 N1:50-59. 5. JENSSEN PD; MAEHLUM T; KROGSTAD T. POTENTIAL USE OF CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT IN NORTHERN ENVIRONMENTS. WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1993, V28 N10:149-157. 6. KNIGHT RL. OPERATING EXPERIENCE WITH CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT. TAPPI JOURNAL, 1993 JAN, V76 N1:109-112. 7. GEARHEART RA. USE OF CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS TO TREAT DOMESTIC WASTEWATER, CITY OF ARCATA, CALIFORNIA. WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1992, V26 N7-8:1625-1637. Pub type: Review. 8. HAUCK RD. TREATING WASTEWATER IN CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS. BIOCYCLE, 1992 SEP, V33 N9:72-72. 9. BHAMIDIMARRI R; SHILTON A; ARMSTRONG I; JACOBSON P; and others. CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT - THE NEW-ZEALAND EXPERIENCE. WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1991, V24 N5:247-253. 10. REED SC. CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT. BIOCYCLE, 1991 JAN, V32 N1:44-49. 11. PRIDE RE; NOHRSTEDT JS; BENEFIELD LD. UTILIZATION OF CREATED WETLANDS TO UPGRADE SMALL MUNICIPAL WASTEWATER TREATMENT SYSTEMS. WATER AIR AND SOIL POLLUTION, 1990 APR, V50 N3-4:371-385. 12. BREEN PF. A MASS BALANCE METHOD FOR ASSESSING THE POTENTIAL OF ARTIFICIAL WETLANDS FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT. WATER RESEARCH, 1990 JUN, V24 N6:689-697. 13. KADLEC RH; BEVIS FB. WETLANDS AND WASTEWATER - KINROSS, MICHIGAN. WETLANDS, 1990 JUN, V10 N1:77-92. From kolling@adobe.com Thu Nov 10 23:44:50 EST 1994 Article: 47591 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!decwrl!adobe!kolling From: kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling) Subject: Re: Experimental Horticulture Message-ID: <1994Nov9.232704.11793@adobe.com> Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View References: <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 23:27:04 GMT Lines: 20 In article srtobin@mmm.com (Steven R. Tobin) writes: >In article <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> XJNJ40A@prodigy.com (ANDREW SINGER ) writes: >>From: XJNJ40A@prodigy.com (ANDREW SINGER ) >>Subject: Experimental Horticulture >>Date: 3 Nov 1994 03:08:39 GMT > >>I am interested if anyone knows of any universities/government agencies >>or private institutions that are experimenting with the idea of using a >>select grouping of plants to extract "environmentally harmful" substances >>from human originated wastewater. I have had some leads in the fields >>of golf courses, which treat the runoff water in a manmade wetland >>environment, but I would like to know if there are any formal studies >>going on anywhere. Thank you for your help! There was a program on this topic on the PBS show The New Garden recently. If you can catch any of their programs in your area there's an 800 number at the end for ordering videotapes of programs. I'm sure there's more work going on elsewhere, as I recall seeing news programs about this. From dq1@delphi.com Thu Nov 10 23:47:32 EST 1994 Article: 47370 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Daniel Quaranto Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Exper. Hort. (Arcata Waste Treatment PLANTS) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 94 16:11:17 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 5 Message-ID: <5o-Urxd.dq1@delphi.com> References: <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <39bfav$9k0@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1g.delphi.com X-To: Sean O'Hara I know a year or so ago the Ben and Jerry main Ice cream plant in Waterbury Vt. was doing something along tho{e lines in a greenhouse operation. I think the people who set it up was a group from Woods Hole Ma. You can prob{bly get the info from B&J in Vt. From sean.ohara@ucop.edu Thu Nov 10 23:47:44 EST 1994 Article: 47254 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!usenet From: Sean O'Hara Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Exper. Hort. (Arcata Waste Treatment PLANTS) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 11:52:45 PDT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 31 Message-ID: <39bfav$9k0@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: largo.ucop.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage > From: XJNJ40A@prodigy.com (ANDREW SINGER ) > Newsgroups: rec.gardens > Subject: Experimental Horticulture > Date: 3 Nov 1994 03:08:39 GMT > > I am interested if anyone knows of any universities/government agencies > or private institutions that are experimenting with the idea of using a > select grouping of plants to extract "environmentally harmful" substances > from human originated wastewater. I have had some leads in the fields > of golf courses, which treat the runoff water in a manmade wetland > environment, but I would like to know if there are any formal studies > going on anywhere. Thank you for your help! > > Andrew > Seattle, WA Andrew - I believe it is in Arcata, California (near Eureka) that they have a working waste treatment 'marsh' that emptied into the Pacific Ocean. If I remember correctly, the water exiting the marsh is far more pure than most waste treatment plants produce. I'm sure if you called the University there (Humbolt State, I think), they could tell you all about it. Anyone in the Northwest who can add more info? Sean A. O'Hara, 710 Jean St., Oakland, Ca. 94610-1459 saouc@uccmvsa.ucop.edu or sean.ohara@ucop.edu From bhaile@leo.vsla.edu Thu Nov 10 23:49:40 EST 1994 Article: 47588 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!caen!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!leo.vsla.edu!bhaile From: bhaile@leo.vsla.edu (Bess Haile) Subject: MORE ON GREAT BULB TOOL Message-ID: <1994Nov9.211236.12406@leo.vsla.edu> Organization: Virginia State Library Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 21:12:36 GMT Lines: 15 Several folks asked for the company which sells the great bulb planting tool (really a tree planting tool) Forestry Suppliers Inc. P.O. Box 8397 Jackson, Miss. 39284 1-800-647-5368 They sell a lot of other truly good tools, not just a lot of pretty stuff! Good Gardening from Bess, who got all 300 daffs. in last weekend and can relax this weekend...unless Southern States has any sale bulbs left...in her zone 7 garden in upper Tidewater Virginia From kantola@u.washington.edu Thu Nov 10 23:50:30 EST 1994 Article: 47655 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!kantola From: kantola@u.washington.edu (Angeline Kantola) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Re: Urban Community Gardens Date: 10 Nov 1994 23:32:05 GMT Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 29 Message-ID: <39uahl$pbf@nntp1.u.washington.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu In article , Boyd Zenner wrote: >Does anyone on the net have any experience with an urban >community garden program? There is some local interest in >starting one here, and I'd very much like to know about people's >experiences with such initiatives, along with any recommendations for >establishing a program or suggestions regarding sources of further >information. Either post or e-mail fine. Seattle has a *tremendously* popular program called the PPatch. Probably 20 'patches' of various sizes (maybe 10 to 100 plots per patch, depending on size of course), and there's always a waiting list. I shared a plot with my boyfriend this summer and loved it; hopefully I'll get a plot of my own for next summer. Plots are available year round (ca. $60/plot) or seasonally (like May through October; $30 and up/plot) and gardeners are expected to volunteer a certain low number of hours as well (helping maintain their plot, making phone calls, cutting Reemay, stuff like that as well as making improvements like building greenhouses or beginning/end of season special tasks). Pesticides and the like are banned outright; the folks who run the project are quite knowledgeable about organic gardening and help out newbies like myself. Surely more PPatchers are out here on the 'Net and can offer more info. Good luck with your program! Angie Kantola From gwv@sequoia.cray.com Thu Nov 10 23:52:21 EST 1994 Article: 47630 of rec.gardens Newsgroups: rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!driftwood.cray.com!gwv From: gwv@sequoia.cray.com (George Walter VandenBerghe) Subject: Citrus update in Zone 7 Message-ID: <1994Nov10.121511.15496@driftwood.cray.com> Originator: gwv@sequoia Lines: 109 Sender: gwv@sequoia (George Walter VandenBerghe) Nntp-Posting-Host: sequoia Organization: Cray Research, Inc. Date: 10 Nov 94 12:15:11 CST I have been growing a lemon tree (Improved Meyer) and a tangerine (Satsuma) for two seasons now in the Washington DC area. I bought them both in Feb 1993 and overwintered the tangerine mostly in my unheated garage (32-40F most of the winter). I overwintered the lemon inside. The lemon produced four lemons the first year and had numerous small fruits on it in Dec 1993. The tangerine produced 8 delicious tangerines in mid November from an early March bloom. The tangerine wintered very well. I had to bring it in the warm house for a week in mid January when I was unable to keep my unheated garage avove freezing. That made it break dormancy and it spent the last half of the winter in bud break at refrigerator temperatures. I put it outside on sunny days when I expected the high to be above 45 or so and the temperature to stay above freezing until midnight. In between an incredible number of ice storms there were a number of nice days in the DC area in Feb 1994. The lemon did not winter well. The hot dry inside of the house caused it to lose most of its fruits and weakened it so much that no buds set the following spring. It has spent the 1994 growing season recovering. In early March I began to bring the tangerine indoors again to speed up bud break but kept it outdoors on the warmer days. Many of the leaf buds died from some strange necrosis and I also lost about 30% of the flower buds but the remaining several hundred flowers set 50 fruits and I kept 30 of them. Leaf buds that did not die grew fairly well but slowly and the tree grew slowly all summer. It is a 3 foot globe of green and orange on top of a 4 foot stem and is grafted to a trifoliate orange. It grows in an 18 inch pot; the largest I can lift. It weighs about 50 pounds dry and 80 pounds watered. It is not rootbound; all summer it only needed watering once every few weeks. Small weeds which grow in the pot are healthy and green. Except for the disappointing growth rate (6-12'' shoot elongation and little increase in the radius of the top) the tree looks very healthy and is beautiful with 28 delicious looking fruits on it. I fertilized it once with Miracle Gro in June. It showed no deficiency symptoms before the fertilizer except for the slow growth and is not showing any now and the small weeds in the pot are healthy so I do not expect to fertilize before next spring. Our fall temperatures are cold enough that I am not worried about its breaking dormancy now and when dormant it is hardy to 20F (The fruits aren t though but they will be gone by Early December). Last year my only gripe about the fruits was that they weren't acid enough, just sweet. Both trees will overwinter in my garage this year unless another incredible cold spell causes me to have to evacuate them. I expect to have to do this for a week or so every few years. Hopefully next year the tangerine will start to grow more and the lemon, whose health improved a lot this summer, will start bearing again. I continue to believe that citrus does well as a potted plant summered outdoors and wintered in refrigerator conditions in an unheated and not necessarily well lit building. But if it is warm it must have good light whith the inside of my house does not have (only a few hours of sunlight per day in my sunniest windows). The washington DC area gets enough heat to ripen both the lemons and the tangerines. I have not yet tried long season oranges such as Valencias or grapefruits. I am especially concerned that I may not get enough heat for grapefruits. Good luck fellow Northern citrus growers! From Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org Thu Nov 10 23:53:49 EST 1994 Article: 47392 of rec.gardens From: Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!armon!jina!fredmail Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Advice Wanted: Dead Lake Message-ID: <784093542.AA02440@jina.rain.com> Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 17:56:14 -0800 X-FTN-To: Dick and Jill Miller Lines: 17 Hello Dick! 04 Nov 94 08:24, Dick and Jill Miller wrote to (crosspost 1) All: DaJM> I don't know about rec.aquaria, but from time to time we've had DaJM> lots of pond and water-garden discussions here on rec.gardens. I DaJM> for one would really like to hear more about this subject. I've DaJM> been collecting articles for a couple of years against the time DaJM> when I can build my own! You may want to stop by The Garden Pond BBS at 1-503-735-3074. I am the SYSOP and a memeber of the International Water Lily Society. The BBS is free and you can down load water garden files on your first visit. I support 28.8K V.FC, V.34 and all other high speed modem formats. We will all be happy when the POND internet news group get's going.... Jack From abbottl@eng.gtefsd.com Thu Nov 10 23:55:14 EST 1994 Article: 47589 of rec.gardens Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!usenet From: abbottl@eng.gtefsd.com (Lisa White Abbott) Newsgroups: rec.gardens Subject: Lawns, Composted Manure, and Lime Date: 9 Nov 1994 21:42:46 GMT Organization: GTE Federal Systems Division, GSC Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: <39rfom$9n9@europa.eng.gtefsd.com> Reply-To: abbottl@eng.gtefsd.com NNTP-Posting-Host: packard.eng.gtefsd.com Hi all, I was just looking at the Soils section of Books That Work's Complete Guide to Garden Stuff, which I found while looking around the new WWW page for the GardenGate. (http://www.btw.com/garden_archive/toc.html) I was reading about soil amendments, and notice they suggested that lime and composted manure should not be added at the same time, else they produce ammonia gas and tie up nitrogen. Any comments? If it's composted, why would this happen? This caught my eye because I was planning on doing this very thing this weekend... yikes! Also, they were talking cow manure, and what I have is composted horse manure. This doesn't make any difference, right? Their diets/outputs are very similar, seems to me. Thanks for any insights! -- Lisa A. abbottl@eng.gtefsd.com