From pwight@rahul.net Mon Mar  6 10:33:35 EST 1995
Article: 55227 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!pwight.a2i!pwight
From: "Philip F. Wight" <pwight@rahul.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Beware Totally Tomatoes
Date: 19 Feb 1995 04:14:27 GMT
Organization: a2i network
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Michelle - Call the credit card co. and give them details - it might not
be too late. 

When you called did you get the names of the people you talked to?  You
should ask to speak to the manager, or the CEO - that might get some
attention. 

Cheers,
Phil
----------------------
 Michelle D Johnson (shel@is.rice.edu) wrote:
: I, like many others, got the Totally Tomatoes catalog and loved it. All these
: peppers and tomatoes that I hadn't seen elsewhere. So I ordered 8 peppers and
: 4 tomatoes (I already had tons of each from other places), and 5 starter tray
: flats to use as bottoms for my 6 packs. 

: First off, TT charged my credit card account 1/11/95, the day they received
: the order, and didn't SHIP ANYTHING until 1/27/95, more than 3 weeks later. It's
: not against the law or anything, but IT STINKS. No other companies, seed or 
: otherwise, that I deal with do that.

: Second off, they shipped everything together, in a carboard box roughly 11x22,
: the size of the trays. It was held together with a single strip of cheap
: packing tape so that there were wide expanses of space that I could slide my
: hand into very easily on both the top and the bottom of the box. The seed
: packets were simply thrown in there, not rubberbanded together or in a smaller
: box, or ziploc or anything. Well, surprise, surprise. Only 3 of 4 of the
: tomatoes packets and 2 of the 8 pepper packets arrived. I assume the others
: slid out during the UPS shipping, but I honestly don't know or care. I called on
: 1/31/95 to report this problem, and was told she'd walk down to the shipping
: area to get them sent out (and this was after finding out that the ones they
: had marked as backordered were actually supposed to have been in the box, too).

: Well, today's 2/17, almost 3 weeks later, and I still don't have my missing
: seeds. I called AGAIN (this is long distance daytime rates, and really getting
: on my nerves!!), and I was told they don't keep records of calls, so don't show
: that I called on 1/31/95, but that she'd walk down to the shipping area "to see
: if we can ship these out to you". !!!!!! I am hopping mad. I paid the credit
: card bill last week, assuming that the seeds would be arriving (boy was I 
: optimistic). What recourse do I have to get either my seeds or my money back? 
: The credit card is Discover, if that makes any difference. 

: For what's it's worth, the seed trays are very nicely designed with nice, deep
: ridges on the bottom in a zigzag pattern so that there can be water in them 
: without the pots sitting in them (I'm not using them for seedling flats), and
: the most reasonably priced I'd found (5 for $6.95). 

: I just wished they paid more attention to their packing habits and their
: customer service. If you only order seeds, I hope they'll ship them in 
: something suitable and you get all of your seeds. This is the only company 
: (out of Pinetree-love them!, Porter & Sons (now extinct Texas), Parks, 
: Thompson & Morgan (overpriced and have had bad luck with their seeds as has
: our local Ag Extension Agent this year), Heirloom Seeds & Totally Tomatoes) 
: that I've gotten this kind of crappy service all around. I will NOT order from
: them in the future, but will try Tomato Growers out of Florida, which was
: recommended (belatedly) by my Ag Extension Agent.

: Your mileage may vary. Good luck. -Shelly
: -- 
: Shelly Johnson                  Computing Consultant
: shel@rice.edu                   CRC Collection Development Specialist
: Rice University, Houston, TX    Publications Team


From jstiller@omni.voicenet.com Mon Mar  6 10:33:37 EST 1995
Article: 55228 of rec.gardens
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From: Jennifer Stiller <jstiller@omni.voicenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Climate zone's in US
Date: 19 Feb 1995 00:30:25 GMT
Organization: pennsylvania gardener
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In article <3i5scb$2u1@news.xs4all.nl> linus, linus@xs4all.nl writes:
>Subject: Climate zone's in US
>From: linus, linus@xs4all.nl
>Date: 18 Feb 1995 22:29:31 GMT
>>Can anyone explain the climate zone's in the US? How many zone's are 
>there, where are they located and how are they defined? 
>In Europe the climate's are named after area's (mediteranean-, land- 
>or seaclimate etc.).
>I often read interesting things in this newsgroup, but it could be a 
>lot more intersting when would understand what these climate zone's 
>are.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Alexandra van Tongeren (linus@xs4all.nl)
>
The zone map concept was developed years ago (I don't know how many)
under the direction of the U.S. National Arboretum in Washington DC.  A
map is developed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and published by
the government.  It shows climate zones for all of North America
(including Canada and Mexico).  The zones are based on "average annual
minimum temperatures" and the current ones are based on the lowest
temperature recorded for each of the years 1974 through 1986 in the U.S.
and Canada and 1971 to 1984 in Mexico.    (The map also covers Hawaii,
even though it is not in North America.)

There are 11 zones shown on the current (1990) version of the map, the
official version of which is a magnificent document printed in color on
heavy paper about 1m x 1.3 m in size.  It is detailed enough that I can
almost figure out whether my garden near Philadelphia is in zone 6 or
zone 7.   To give you an idea of the zones, the temperature range for
Zone 1 is below -45.6 degrees C, zone 2 is -45.6 to -40 degrees, zone 3
is -40 to -34.5 degrees, etc.  My zone 6 is - 23.3 to -17.8 degrees; zone
7 is -17.8 to -12.3 degrees.  Zone 10  (the part of southern Florida that
has temperatures that you imagine Florida has) has an average low
temperature of -1.1 to +4.4 C.  (Zone 11 is in Mexico and a bit of
Hawaii.)

Note that all these temperatures are winter minimums.   The idea is to
let gardeners and farmers know what plants are likely to be winter-killed
by the cold.  The zones do not take into account the enormous variations
in such factors as summer heat, rainfall, and soil type, so they don't
really tell a person what will survive the whole climate, just the winter
cold.

Jennifer Stiller   (jstiller@omni.voicenet.com)


From allen@dataflux.bc.ca Mon Mar  6 10:33:38 EST 1995
Article: 55229 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!psgrain!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.DataFlux.BC.CA!usenet
From: "Dave Allen (Better Business Solutions)" <allen@dataflux.bc.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Children's Garden
Date: 19 Feb 1995 05:01:52 GMT
Organization: Global DataFlux Ltd., Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <3i6jc0$k4h@carver.DataFlux.BC.CA>
References: <3hqeet$g15@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <9502141525.AA47117@g.l.curran> <dclark.172.00088CB6@wellspring.us.dg.com>
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 I made a mistake about that children's bookon gardening. I thought it was called 
plant a rainbos but it was as below.... Although it explains about planting a garden 
it is really more of a picture book for very young children. 
 Here is a list of all the gardening books I could find in a hurry in my wife's library. 
She is a Montessori teacher -and teacher trainer and has about 2000 books in her 
children's library.
 _Planting a Rainbow_ by Lois Ehlert, published by  Harcourt Brace Jovanovich 
(1988)- ISBN 0-15-262610 -7 (pbk)
_Look, Mom, It's Growing_ by Ed Fink, pub by A.B.Morse Co. (1976)  ISBN 
unknown
_The Victory Garden Alphabet Book_ by Jerry Pallotta & Bob Thompson pub by 
Charlesbridge Pub ISBN 0-88106-468-8 (softcover)
_Grow it for Fun_ by Wendy Boise, Pub by Scimitar, UK ISBN 0-241-10068-2
_The Flower Alphabet Book_ by Jerry Patolla pub by Charlesbridge 1988 ISBN 0-
88106-453-X
_A Tree is Nice_ by Janice May Udry, pub by Harper & Row 1956 ISBN 0-06-
443147-9 (1987 reprint) Caldecott Medal
_The Tiny Seed_ by Eric Carle, pub by Scholastic1987, ISBN 0-590-42566-8
_A Very Young Gardener_ by Jill Krementz, pub by Dial Books for Young Readers 
1991 ISBN 0-8037-0874-0
_Looking at Plants_ by David Suzuki, pub by Stoddard Young Readers 1985 
ISBN 0-7737-5039-8
and probably the BEST for ACTUAL GARDENING
__A Kid's First Book of Gardening_ by Derek Fell, Running Press, 1989 ISBN 0-
89471-750-2 ($9.95)
A note in the last book states:
"This book may be ordered by mail from the publisher. Please add $2.50 for 
postage and handling for each copy. But try your bookstore first!
Running Press Book Publishers
125 South Twenty-second Street
Philadelphia, PA 19103

> Opinions expressed are my own.  Any resemblance to other opinions
> living or dead are purely coincidental.
> --------------------



From lily4me@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:33:39 EST 1995
Article: 55230 of rec.gardens
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From: lily4me@aol.com (LILY 4 ME)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Martha Stewart
Date: 18 Feb 1995 21:46:42 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I had the opportunity to work with Martha as staff for a huge catering
event.  Yes, she is just as pretentious as she looks.  She treats staff
like dirt and I don't  think she has and original idea in her fluffy
little head.  


From lynx@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz Mon Mar  6 10:33:41 EST 1995
Article: 55231 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!comp.vuw.ac.nz!gcs.co.nz!amigans!surrey.wanganui.gen.nz!lynx
From: lynx@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz (Lynsey Gedye)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re:  REQUEST: indoor vines?
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <lynx.04w8@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz>
References:  <3hgbgn$6a8@ionews.io.org> <3hjgem$6n5@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 18 Feb 95 11:39:43 GMT-12
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In article <3hjgem$6n5@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens) writes:

>>Hello!  Could anyone suggest a vine/hanging plant for my office?
>>I would like to have something more colourful, preferably something
>>flowering.  And scented (really dreaming in colour now!).  
>>Any suggestions?  
>>Mike

>Or, if you really do have enough light, an indoor clematis

  Yep, flowers and fragrant. Good choice.

  For sheer studliness of ability to grow house plants,
  Medinilla magnifica.  If you manage to grow this well,
  please don't mention it, it'll make me sick =;).

  For heaps of flowers, Thunbergia alata.  No fragrance.
  Pretty and easy.  If alata is too boring, try mysorensis.

  For leaves only, Cissus discolour.  Sultry.

  For "i wanna vine and I want it NOW!", Monstera standleyana 
  a.k.a. guttiferyum.  Stand back.  Also available varigated.

  For there's holes in that theory, Monstera friedrichsthalii or
  M.obliqua expilata a.k.a. leichtlinii, or even M.pittieri.

  For the "National Velvet" look, Philodendron verrucosum.

  For the "D*mn it Martha, that plant's gotta earn a living!",
  go for the Nepenthes family.

  Finally, for the "My one's bigger than your one", Tetrastigma 
  voinierianum.

  Of course, _real men_ (tm) would grow all of them. =:)

--
lynx@wanganui.gen.nz


From linus@xs4all.nl Mon Mar  6 10:33:42 EST 1995
Article: 55232 of rec.gardens
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From: linus <linus@xs4all.nl>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Climate zone's in US
Date: 18 Feb 1995 22:29:31 GMT
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Can anyone explain the climate zone's in the US? How many zone's are 
there, where are they located and how are they defined? 
In Europe the climate's are named after area's (mediteranean-, land- 
or seaclimate etc.).
I often read interesting things in this newsgroup, but it could be a 
lot more intersting when would understand what these climate zone's 
are.

Thanks.

Alexandra van Tongeren (linus@xs4all.nl)



From mtiffany Mon Mar  6 10:33:43 EST 1995
Article: 55233 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.rain.org!port28.ventura.rain.org!user
From: mtiffany (Michael Tiffany)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 21:31:45 -0800
Organization: RAIN Public Access Internet (805) 967-RAIN
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Distribution: world
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References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <3hts8h$4ql@news.bu.edu> <792896969snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk>
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Please, let's keep rec.gardens as one big happy family. I enjoy the
variety, and I think that we will all lose if the group is splintered.

Good gardening!

Stephanie Tiffany


From rsherry271@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:33:47 EST 1995
Article: 55234 of rec.gardens
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From: rsherry271@aol.com (RSherry271)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need help in measuring soil Ph
Date: 15 Feb 1995 23:09:41 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Have you tried your local Cooperative extension office or your state
university? It's usually under $10 per test, quite accurate for any crop
and comes with reccomendations for nutrient and liming needs. Not many
test tubes and electronic probes I know of can do that. If you are not
sure of your CE office. Email me with the name of the county you live in
and maybe one or two neighboring counties. Also your state. I can send
your addresses and phone #'s.
Rosanne Sherry

"Dogs come when called, cats take a message and get back to you".


From smeagol@midland.co.nz Mon Mar  6 10:33:48 EST 1995
Article: 55235 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!ames!waikato!news.midland.co.nz!midland.co.nz!smeagol
From: smeagol@midland.co.nz (Neil Mercer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Please don't flame me
Date: 18 Feb 1995 20:26:31 GMT
Organization: Midland Internet Limited - Hamilton, New Zealand
Lines: 24
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L. R. Fortney (LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu) wrote:
: In article <3i2r3d$cmm@cobia.gulf.net>, macsusn@gulf.net (Shelley
: Carpenter) wrote:

: > Hi all,
: > 
: > I'm fairly new to this group and have just been lurking, BUT, I have to 
: > speak out on the reorganization.
: > 
: > For me, it would be easier if there were two groups, one for vegetable 
: > gardens and one for flowers/shrubs etc.  
: > 
:    I agree completely, but the last time I tried to inject this bit of
: reason it went nowhere.

: -- 
: Lloyd Fortney ---Opinions, just opinions---

I also agree, even though I am primarily against splitting rec.gardens.  
This just makes much more sense to me.  Maybe we should be considering a 
split which would end up with larger groups than being currently 
proposed, but seems more logical.  Comments?

Tania.


From Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:33:49 EST 1995
Article: 55236 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk (Martin Tom Brown)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!peernews.demon.co.uk!nezumi.demon.co.uk!Martin
Subject: Re: Indoor problem: mealybugs on hoya
References: <3hrl48$pqh@infoserver.bgsu.edu> <3i08bk$bog@news.rain.org>
Organization: Myorganisation
Reply-To: Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk
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In article <3i08bk$bog@news.rain.org> sals@rain.org "
" writes:

> I'm always fighting mealybug and looking for organic way to beat those 
> mealybug back. On my fruit trees they turn the fruit black.   Let me know if 
> someone comes up with a good idea.

I'm curious as a cactus and succulent grower I sometimes have problems with
mealy bug and generally use a powerful pesticide (malathion) to control it.
Choice is limited because the plants mark very easily with some pesticides.

Some folk claim to be able to control mealy with a concoction of
Safers' soap in water and Isopropyl alcohol - have tried it?
Does it work for you? For me it just gives cleaner mealy bugs. YMMV

Regards,
-- 
Martin Brown  <martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk>     __                CIS: 71651,470
Scientific Software Consultancy             /^,,)__/


From Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:33:50 EST 1995
Article: 55237 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk (Martin Tom Brown)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!peernews.demon.co.uk!nezumi.demon.co.uk!Martin
Subject: Re: Thompson & Morgan
References: <D41zz3.M78@lcpd2.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM>
Organization: Myorganisation
Reply-To: Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk
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In article <D41zz3.M78@lcpd2.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM>
           first.last@SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM "Your Name" writes:

> I just received the Thompson & Morgan catalog.  It's the most extensive 
> selection I've ever seen!  Does anyone have any experience with them?  Quality 
> of seeds/plants, etc.
> 
> Their phone number, by the way, is (908)363-2225.

T&M are great, and their seed is mostly very reliable. 
Never tried their plants but I would expect them to be OK too.

Chiltern Seeds has an even bigger range, but their catalogue has no pictures
just names of species and short descriptions of each. They are also UK based.
Prices are slightly cheaper in the UK, but I don't know if there's a US side.
	Tel: +44 (1229) 581137    Fax: +44 (1229) 584549

Hope this helps.
Regards,
-- 
Martin Brown  <martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk>     __                CIS: 71651,470
Scientific Software Consultancy             /^,,)__/


From spudnik1@bev.net Mon Mar  6 10:33:52 EST 1995
Article: 55238 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet
From: spudnik1@bev.net (spudnik1)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: overwintering
Date: 18 Feb 1995 23:01:59 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia
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I read somewhere (I can't recall where) that snapdragons are perennial in tropical climates. Due to this fall's warm temperatures, some of the ones I had in my floral border survived into December. Idecided to take a chance and potted some of the nicer on
es and brought them inside. Of the four plants I brought in, one is wilting, two are just fine, and one has grown about two inches taller but has been infested bu aphids. I have been using dishsoap to control the pests and it seems to be working. I'm just
 wondering if I'm wasting my time or if I'll get more growth and flowers once I can replant these outside.


From dahlia75@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:33:54 EST 1995
Article: 55239 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: dahlia75@aol.com (DAHLIA75)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Any good producing snap peas
Date: 18 Feb 1995 17:52:54 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Calvin Lamborn, the breeder, indicated that he thought the best producer
was Sugar Mel, I'd concur. They are all named after his daughters.
Available from Pinetree Garden Seeds Box 300, New Gloucester, ME 04260. 95
cents for 2Oz. Pack plus $1.25 shipping.


From gabrielle@hypnos.norden1.com Mon Mar  6 10:33:56 EST 1995
Article: 55240 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!gabrielle
From: gabrielle@hypnos.norden1.com (Gabrielle)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Any butterfly gardeners out there?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 01:27:08 GMT
Organization: Norden 1 Communications
Lines: 12
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There is a neat www site called Monarch Watch! Set your pointer to:

http://129.237.247.134//

I'm not sure my syntax is correct, but the numbers are! You will
really find some neat stuff there! Guaranteed! I just discovered
it a week ago myself!

Gabrielle

--
 


From rcase@rt66.com Mon Mar  6 10:33:58 EST 1995
Article: 55241 of rec.gardens
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From: rcase@rt66.com (Roger Case )
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Save my Bonsai!
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 01:16:56 GMT
Organization: Engineering International
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In article <19950218.7B04240.7EBC@msbbs.com> revans@msbbs.com (Ruth Evans) writes:
.snip...

>Are you sure it's an evergreen Bonsai?  I watched a show once that
>featured a deciduous bonsai and was astonished.  I had always thought of
>bonsai as being done to evergreen trees.   (BTW:  Is bonsai a noun or a
>verb or both?)


Bonsai is (mis)used as both a nouna and a verb -- and it s captialized 
sometimes, and sometimes its not  -- for a better discussion of the topic of 
bonsai, read rec.arts.bonsai.



Roger


From epur01@email.mot.com Mon Mar  6 10:33:59 EST 1995
Article: 55242 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!fl08ara029.comm.mot.com!user
From: epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns)
Subject: Operculicarya decaryii
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 17:42:58 -0500
Message-ID: <epur01-1802951742580001@fl08ara029.comm.mot.com>
Sender: news@schbbs.mot.com (SCHBBS News Account)
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Can anyone steer me to a horticultural reference on Operculicarya
decaryii, a miniature tree?  I saw this little tree at a friend's place
today, and he is looking for any information available.  No reference to
the genus shows up in Hortus or Heywood.
Thanks!

-- 
Don Burns                         | Motorola E-Mail: epur01
Motorola Inc.                     |     Internet:epur01@email.mot.com
North American Radio Systems Divn |          Voice: 305-723-5518
Plantation, FL  U.S.A.            |            Fax: 305-723-4343
            
X.400: /c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=motorola/g=don/s=burns/ddt=id/ddv=epur01/


From desidia@community.net Mon Mar  6 10:34:00 EST 1995
Article: 55243 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!news.cygnus.com!news.zeitgeist.net!odin.community.net!odin.community.net!not-for-mail
From: desidia@community.net (Gloria Mercado-Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: CATS how do I keep 'em out!
Date: 18 Feb 1995 23:37:00 -0800
Organization: Access InfoSystems
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Distribution: world
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I've heard that if a human male takes a leak every now and then in the 
yard, the cats will keep out.  The person that told me swears by this 
method.

Gloria 

-- 
		"Had I been present at the creation, 
		I would have given some useful hints 
		for the better ordering of the Universe"
				Alfonso X El Sabio (1221-1284)


From thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Mon Mar  6 10:34:02 EST 1995
Article: 55244 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!news.kei.com!world!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.sas.ab.ca!freenet.edmonton.ab.ca!thacker
From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Hot Pepper Plant Problems.
Date: 19 Feb 1995 10:02:06 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Freenet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3i74uu$2rv@news.sas.ab.ca>
References: <D3nr0H.55E@freenet.carleton.ca> <3hub27$aag@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3hvp3p$ol4@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>
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Mark Donald Heiser (heiser@wam.umd.edu) wrote:
: SMarmonkac (smarmonkac@aol.com) wrote:
: : yield the first year. Nasturtiums planted as companions help retard pests.
:                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

:  Really?  I've only planted nasturtiums once and in my experience
:  they were nothing but aphid magnets which is why I list them as
:  one of my most hated plants ... but that's another thread. :-)
:  I've never had any plant get so infested. Of course, if aphids
:  aren't a problem with peppers, I guess that wouldn't be a problem.

That's the point of companion planting.  You plant a companion plant 
that the bugs absolutely love...they infest the companion plant big 
time, and leave your peppers alone.  (Some other companion plants 
retard bugs by scent or whatever, and hopefully retard them from the 
area that includes your desired plants also.)

Don


From thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Mon Mar  6 10:34:03 EST 1995
Article: 55245 of rec.gardens
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From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Disaster: Novice plants seeds to save money...help !!
Date: 19 Feb 1995 10:09:56 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Freenet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3i75dk$2rv@news.sas.ab.ca>
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: Yes, they're warm on a window sill, but I did not pre-moisten the soil. It was kinda
:  wet anyway, having been in a plastic bag. I did
: cover them at about 1/4". The packet instructions are so vague.  It is hard to 
: keep them moist. Should I cover them in plastic wrap after I water them next ?
: I've been spraying them with a water bottle, but this takes a long time. And 
: they dry out after one day with just spraying them.

Cover them with plastic wrap until they begin to germinate (have them 
moist but not wet before you cover the soil)...Saran wrap or equivalent 
works well...you might want to punch in a few airholes, but I generally 
just cover them loosely so airholes aren't needed.  Depending on the type 
of seed you are growing and the conditions, germination could take 
anywhere from 3 days to 3 or 4 weeks.

Don


From greyhawk@greyhawk.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:34:05 EST 1995
Article: 55246 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!peernews.demon.co.uk!demon!news
From: Graham Hawker <greyhawk@greyhawk.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Robot Lawnmower
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: greyhawk.demon.co.uk
Message-ID: <D485qE.DLs@demon.co.uk>
Sender: news@demon.co.uk (Usenet Administration)
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At last! As a hayfever sufferer my worst job is cutting the lawn.
I noticed on a Web page (http://mmm.wwa.com/elux/elt4.html) that a robot lawnmower has been invented
that cruises your lawn all summer powered by solar energy. I wonder if this will ever
see the light of day :-)


From htm@max.tiac.net Mon Mar  6 10:34:07 EST 1995
Article: 55247 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!eff!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!max.tiac.net!htm
From: htm@max.tiac.net (HTM)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Address needed
Date: 19 Feb 1995 05:58:27 GMT
Organization: The Internet Access Company
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Does anyone know the address of Piedmont Co. in Georgia? They sell 
live plants, mainly vegetables. I have bought from them before, but for 
some strange reason they put neither their address nor their telephone 
number in their catalogue. It is only on the order form; and I never 
bothered to mark it down.

Seraphim



From randim@delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:08 EST 1995
Article: 55248 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!satisfied.elf.com!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: randim@delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: picking tomato seeds (Burpee Catalog)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 21:18:45 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 2
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X-To: Jeff Stier <jstier@yu1.yu.edu>
Status: O
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I've had excellent results for years with big boys and better
girls. I'm growing in SE Pennsylvania.


From barryg@haven.ios.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:09 EST 1995
Article: 55249 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!ankh.iia.org!haven.ios.com!barryg
From: barryg@haven.ios.com (barry glick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: 10,000 different Hardy Plants!!
Date: 19 Feb 1995 01:36:16 GMT
Organization: Internet Online Services
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From barryg@haven.ios.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:11 EST 1995
Article: 55250 of rec.gardens
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From: barryg@haven.ios.com (barry glick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: help
Date: 19 Feb 1995 01:37:52 GMT
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From barryg@haven.ios.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:13 EST 1995
Article: 55251 of rec.gardens
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From: barryg@haven.ios.com (barry glick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: q
Date: 19 Feb 1995 01:41:49 GMT
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From barryg@haven.ios.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:14 EST 1995
Article: 55252 of rec.gardens
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From: barryg@haven.ios.com (barry glick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: q
Date: 19 Feb 1995 01:42:19 GMT
Organization: Internet Online Services
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From hbedu014@huey.csun.edu Mon Mar  6 10:34:15 EST 1995
Article: 55253 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!csun.edu!hbedu014
From: hbedu014@huey.csun.edu (lynn vavra)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: White/silver garden ideas
Date: 19 Feb 1995 01:40:54 GMT
Organization: California State University, Northridge
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3i67j6$iqb@dewey.csun.edu>
References: <1995Feb17.141302.15512@olaf.wellesley.edu> <D47GvJ.BqF@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
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Boyd  Zenner (bz2v@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU) wrote:
> linda@annie.wellesley.edu  writes:
> > (snip)
> > 
> > (snip)
I have a raised bed under shade, & I planted caladiums & impatiens last
year to catch the full moon every month.  It was beautiful & ethereal,
especially at night when it just basked in the moonbeams!  It will be back
again this year, by popular demand.                               Lynn


From DOVETAIL@news.delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:17 EST 1995
Article: 55254 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!news2.delphi.com!not-for-mail
From: DOVETAIL@news.delphi.com (DOVETAIL@DELPHI.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: advice on growing hops?
Date: 18 Feb 1995 20:32:30 -0500
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
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Keywords: hops,
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We want to grow hops in our small yard. We're not sure where the best 
place is to grow them -- up a wall or a trellis. Also, are there kinds 
that grow well in central Massachusetts?


From nfeasey@ibm.net Mon Mar  6 10:34:18 EST 1995
Article: 55255 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newsgate.advantis.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news
From: nfeasey@ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: re:  mealy  bug infestation on plants
Date: 19 Feb 1995 01:31:15 GMT
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i am having a problem with a tenacious mealy bug infestation.  i keep using 
safers insecticidal soap and some other insecticides but they always come back
i have a beautiful hoya that is difficult to clean.  i have also tried methilated
spirits, rubbing alcohol to no avail.  any ideas? i would appreciate any help. 
thankyou.    

salome


From gabrielle@hypnos.norden1.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:19 EST 1995
Article: 55256 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!gabrielle
From: gabrielle@hypnos.norden1.com (Gabrielle)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: chipper/clipper/shredder
Date: 19 Feb 1995 01:47:20 GMT
Organization: Norden 1 Communications
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3i67v8$l1f@ns.oar.net>
References: <3hr0c6$j56@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <klebba.11.0009F9B1@nicolet.com>
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Our local "Sam's Club" has an MTD chipper/shredder that I have
almost purchased several times! :) Now that our community has
started a yard refuse program, I figure this would be a worthwhile
item to get.

Any thoughts on MTD stuff? I have a mower and a great rear-tine
tiller from MTD, and have been pleased with both.

Gaby

--
 


From rev4u2c@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:21 EST 1995
Article: 55257 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: rev4u2c@aol.com (Rev4u2c)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: rec.gardens.organic...Opinions??
Date: 19 Feb 1995 06:30:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3i7a58$2m7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <Pine.A32.3.91c.950210101612.61089C-100000@homer22.u.washington
Reply-To: rev4u2c@aol.com (Rev4u2c)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Opinions are like dirty socks everyboby has a one ( or 2).  
This is my first experience with newsgroup.  I had a very hard time trying
to find subjects.  I first tried horticulture, then perinniels, then
flowers, then gardening.  My husband then tried my favorite roses.  As a
fairly new gardener I hope to glean any information from the many seasoned
gardeners.  With this hunger for knowledge I have spent the last 4 hrs.
reading.  Good information, but wouldn't it be easier for rookies to
digest if it was sectioned?  

Either way i'm glad I found you !


From thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Mon Mar  6 10:34:22 EST 1995
Article: 55258 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!news.kei.com!world!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.sas.ab.ca!freenet.edmonton.ab.ca!thacker
From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Jewelweed
Date: 19 Feb 1995 10:17:34 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Freenet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Lines: 22
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <3i75ru$2vb@news.sas.ab.ca>
References: <3h6kk4$f4p@morrow.stanford.edu> <1995Feb8.141805.5384@leo.vsla.edu> <D46FML.pCE@ns1.nodak.edu>
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David R Givers (givers@badlands.NoDak.edu) wrote:
: Bess Haile (bhaile@leo.vsla.edu) wrote:
: : I have a lot of jewelweeds growing in my marsh and along the
: : streams.  Last year I collected some for soneone on the net.
: :  I will
: : gather seeds for anyone interested in me sending them

:  There are two concerns I would like folks to consider regarding the 
: harvest of wild species.  Most books that (reponsibly IMO) promote native 
: species propogation caution against gathering from  wild populations on 
: general principles of conservation.  Most/many ecologists will also 
: caution shipping or transfering species outside their own ecotype or 
: phenotype.  In other words there is some concern for human activity 
: altering natural selection of what should be wild populations.

I would agree with this comment for any invasive type of plant such as 
purple loosestrife.  But jewelweed is a rather mundane plant, not 
invasive, and it grows well with other wetland species, doesn't choke 
them out.  So I doubt that offering jewelweed seeds is going to have any 
impact on any environment whatsoever.

Don


From rev4u2c@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:23 EST 1995
Article: 55259 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: rev4u2c@aol.com (Rev4u2c)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 'Garden in Time' New 3D software FREE for testers
Date: 19 Feb 1995 04:56:02 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3i74ji$2db@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3hqtja$iic@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: rev4u2c@aol.com (Rev4u2c)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi !  I would like to try your software as a tester.  I have only been
gardening a short time, which also means I have alot to learn.  I have 3D
Landscape that I like for the database of over 400 plants.   I'm hooked, I
find gardening very fulfiling. The best thing is Hubby enjoys also.  I
have a AST 486SX/25 that is with me always.  I am located in zone 7 (Md). 


From barryg@haven.ios.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:25 EST 1995
Article: 55260 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!ankh.iia.org!haven.ios.com!barryg
From: barryg@haven.ios.com (barry glick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: 10,000 Hardy Plants!
Date: 19 Feb 1995 01:59:36 GMT
Organization: Internet Online Services
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NNTP-Posting-Host: haven.ios.com
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From jrwoodworth@mmm.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:26 EST 1995
Article: 55261 of rec.gardens
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From: jrwoodworth@mmm.com (John Woodworth)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Robins!
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 09:53:01
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In article <3i2la2$ltn@pandora.sdsu.edu> pat@kiwi.sdsu.edu (Pat) writes:
>From: pat@kiwi.sdsu.edu (Pat)
>Subject: Re: Robins!
>Date: 17 Feb 1995 17:10:24 GMT

>Menk, Donna (donna_menk@radian.com) wrote:
>: Spring can't be too far behind--my front yard has been full of robins
>: this week! (I'm in Austin, Texas.)

>: Donna

>I remember what Robins look like.  Red breast, right?

Hey, this morning I heard meadowlarks. They're back! The end of Winter in 
Minnesota is nigh!

John


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Imitation is the sincerest form of parody."

                         Richard Corliss
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From philseib@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:27 EST 1995
Article: 55262 of rec.gardens
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From: philseib@aol.com (PhilSeib)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Horticulture database
Date: 18 Feb 1995 20:53:05 -0500
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Garden Database...  I have begun something similar - but using Filemaker
Pro (MAC, but runs on MAC-Wannabees as well).  Tedious and time
consuming...  I can appreciate anyone who has accomplished this before and
would also be quite willing to  buy one when found...

Anyone else out there????

Phil


From diveanddig@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:28 EST 1995
Article: 55263 of rec.gardens
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From: diveanddig@aol.com (Diveanddig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Thompson & Morgan
Date: 18 Feb 1995 20:55:11 -0500
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M&T = Overpriced seed, small quantites, and if you order some of the less
popular seeds, they will not be very fresh and will not germinate well.  I
wish they would date the seed packets.  I have tried them twice and have
had very poor results on some of the more exotic seeds. I have been
starting almost everything from seed for the past 25 years.   Other
suppliers of the same seed have had much better germination.  This opinion
is shared by many in my gardening club.  Parks and Stokes have better
quality and larger portions  for much less money.

Bill Bird


From philseib@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:30 EST 1995
Article: 55264 of rec.gardens
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From: philseib@aol.com (PhilSeib)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Horticulture database
Date: 18 Feb 1995 20:59:07 -0500
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GANTT chart can be created in EXCEL by using stacking bar chart format,
using first data column (in spreadsheet) for elapsed time from a start
date (such as January 1st) and then setting this first fill pattern in the
chart to "none" so that it becomes invisible...

I use this format in interior design/architecture practice for project
scheduling...

Good luck!

Phil


From bgoogle@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:31 EST 1995
Article: 55265 of rec.gardens
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From: bgoogle@aol.com (B GOOGLE)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Ryobi Tiller
Date: 18 Feb 1995 21:04:20 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I just got some info in the mail about a Ryobi Tiller.  It is small, about
21 lb.  It is designed differently from, say, the Mantis, in that the
motor is high up on the handles rather than down by the tines.  I wonder
if anyone has seen or used these and what the experience was?  Thanks for
any info.


From kai202@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:33 EST 1995
Article: 55266 of rec.gardens
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From: kai202@aol.com (KAI202)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: rec.gardens.organic...Opinions??
Date: 19 Feb 1995 06:47:59 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I vote for organic gardening tips and help to stay on this list.  We need
to inform people of the great benefits of organic gardening.


From kai202@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:34 EST 1995
Article: 55267 of rec.gardens
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From: kai202@aol.com (KAI202)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Used Gardening Books Sale
Date: 19 Feb 1995 06:51:20 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Pllease mail to me your catalog of used gardening books.  Thanking you in
advance.

Caroline B. Armstrong
6 North Russell St.
Milton Ma 02186 


From tlharvey@omnifest.uwm.edu Mon Mar  6 10:34:35 EST 1995
Article: 55268 of rec.gardens
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From: tlharvey@omnifest.uwm.edu (Terry L. Harvey)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: hydroponics
Date: 19 Feb 1995 00:55:52 -0600
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My daughter is doing a science project on HYDROPONICS.  If anyone has any
information or any idea where I might find info, please email me.

Thank you.

tlharvey@omnifest.uwm.edu


From lily4me@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:37 EST 1995
Article: 55269 of rec.gardens
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From: lily4me@aol.com (LILY 4 ME)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: SNOW'S ON THE WAY! how to protect bulbs?
Date: 18 Feb 1995 21:27:34 -0500
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Do your bulbs actually have flower buds on them?  If not you don't have
any problem.  If you do have buds you should protect your bulbs with a
floating row cover, a thick layer of mulch or anything else to keep those
buds from freezing.  I like floating row covers because they are easy to
remove.


From kai202@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:38 EST 1995
Article: 55270 of rec.gardens
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From: kai202@aol.com (KAI202)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: plant hormones
Date: 19 Feb 1995 06:58:34 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Has any body heard of Spray and Grow?  I used it for 2 years and found
that it 
worked remarkably.  Last year I began to question the safety of using a
product that fools around with Mother Nature.  I would love any info on
this.  
Please e-mail me at Kai202@aol.com. 


From dueck@access.mbnet.mb.ca Mon Mar  6 10:34:39 EST 1995
Article: 55271 of rec.gardens
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From: dueck@access.mbnet.mb.ca (Kelly Dueck)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Indoor Veggies: light question
Date: 19 Feb 1995 07:08:38 GMT
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As a general rule plants do not thrive on more than 18 hours of 
artificial light. Keep your grow lights about 2 inches above the plants.

K. Dueck



From kathy.floritto@sasquat.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:41 EST 1995
Article: 55272 of rec.gardens
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From: kathy.floritto@sasquat.com (KATHY FLORITTO)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Least liked plant
Message-ID: <8A3A214.102100167F.uuout@sasquat.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 08:52:00 -0800
Distribution: world
Organization: Sasquatch BBS, Terrace, BC, Canada, (604) 635-2184
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SM|>In article <19950208.7AEA3B0.1337B#msbbs.com>, revans@msbbs.com (Ruth
  |>Evans) wrote:
  |>
  |>> This may be a strange topic, but what is your least liked plant?  What
  |>> plant that with the mere mention of it makes you want to head for the
  |>> round-up or wish that you could add every last one of them to the
  |>> compost pile?

     
     Comfrey.  I used to think it was "runaway mint" (you know - the 
kind you forget to put a header around when you stick it in the 
ground), but Comfrey beats that by a country mile.

                              KATHY

 * 1st 2.00b #3640 * Kathy.Floritto@Sasquat.com


From kathy.floritto@sasquat.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:42 EST 1995
Article: 55273 of rec.gardens
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From: kathy.floritto@sasquat.com (KATHY FLORITTO)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: SIBERIAN ELMS THRIVE IN SHADE???????
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Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 09:02:00 -0800
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MG|In article <3hnqfi$1kj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, delacorte@aol.com
  |(Delacorte) wrote:

MG|>    I would like to plant a hedge in a fairly shady location, that will
  |> grow as quickly as possible.  A seed catalog I have from the Burgess
  |> company claims that their Siberian Elm will thrive even in the shade. The
  |> Gurney catalog I have claims the Chinese Elm (which I'm told is simply
  |> another name for the Siberian) needs full sunlight.  Which is correct?  Is

MG|Siberian Elms and Chinese Elms are names applied by people to a group of
  |Elms from S.E. Asia.  Unfortunately I see alot of intermixing of these

MG|experience they can survive diffuse shade but certainly not complete
  |shading.  They will do best in good sunlight.  Check with your local

     Is Siberian Elm susceptible to the same disease as is the Chinese 
Elm?  This nasty piece of work has nearly wiped out the entire C. Elm 
population of several areas in N. America - and although I heard that a 
new variety of the Chinese type that is resistant to the problem, I'm 
guessing that the easily defeated type is still plentiful from 
nurseries and neighbors with cuttings.

                              KATHY

 * 1st 2.00b #3640 * Kathy.Floritto@Sasquat.com






From joan@scs.unr.edu Mon Mar  6 10:34:44 EST 1995
Article: 55274 of rec.gardens
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From: joan@scs.unr.edu (Joan Rowe)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: gardening in Missoula
Date: 17 Feb 1995 21:28:53 GMT
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno
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Hi,

If there are any gardeners from Missoula, Montana (or nearby places) I'd like to 
know a little about it.  Right now I'm gardening in zone 5 (South Lake Tahoe) 
with short summers and cool summer nights (Never above 50).  This means that 
things like tomatoes and melons are TOUGH to grow.  Can I expect the same sort 
of conditions in Missoula?

Thanks for any info,
Joan


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:34:45 EST 1995
Article: 55275 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: tomatoes in container? How deep?
Date: 16 Feb 1995 08:09:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 26
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3hv16t$87c@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
References: <D40n3B.EpI@ccc.amdahl.com> <3ht6r6$huj@dsk92.itg.ti.com> <3htf9t$s42@morrow.stanford.edu>
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Sounds like root-knot nematodes to me.  Try growing your
tomatoes somewhere else for a couple os seasons.

Good luck.

Chris Owens


True.  However, the SF Bay Area seems to be rife with soil-borne 
>diseases, like Fusarium and Verticilium wilts, Nematodes, etc.  
>
>I have never had any luck at all with tomatoes here.  They grow
>like gangbusters for the first half of the season, set tons of 
>fruit, then sort of wither away from the top down, and the fruit
>are small, hard and tough-skinned.  I grow only varieties that
>are resistant to everything on earth, but they still do 
>badly.  Anyone know what the problem might be?  (I dug up
>the plants at the end of the season, and the roots seemed 
>kind of knotty.  (They knotted up at the base of the stem
>but sent out a few nice, undeformed long roots as well.)
>
>Dawn in Palo Alto, CA
>
>




From jkl2@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:34:48 EST 1995
Article: 55276 of rec.gardens
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From: jkl2@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (James Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Deer are killing my yard!
Date: 15 Feb 1995 20:28:24 -0500
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
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Message-ID: <3hu9no$h3i@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
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: --
: You guys here may find this amusing... I am CAREFULLY reading these
: posts in hopes that I will find SOMETHING I can plant to ATTRACT deer
: to my yard!!! :)

: I know, I'm hopeless! I am a very inexperienced gardener. Totally brown
: thumb. I am useless.

: I figure maybe I can at least attract deer.

: ;)
: gabrielle


How to attract deer:  Plant something you _don't_ want them to eat.
-- 
Jim Lewis - jkl2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu
 . . . Without ecology . . . there would _be_ no economy.



From Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us Mon Mar  6 10:34:49 EST 1995
Article: 55277 of rec.gardens
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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Reply-To: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
From: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 00:07:33 GMT
Subject: Re: chipper/clipper/shredder
Lines: 27
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I recently bought a yardman 8hp chipper/shredder.  I paid 460.00
new for it.  A large chain is going out of business here and i got
it 25% off of 580.00 price.  It does very well.  I have chipped a
very large pile of brush and pine straw down to a nice
mulch/dirt.  It is loud - I have hearing protectors.  The discharge
chute is a little small so stuff has a tendency to clog especially
if wet.  But alot of chippers have problems with wet material.  I
have chipped pine trees that are 3 inches across and it takes them
fine.  It has a bag to chip the stuff into which is nice so that
stuff doesnt blow all over the place.  Although the irish setter
loves to chase the blowing debris!  I have waited for quite awhile
for a chipper I dont think this machine is as good as a troy bilt
or kemp but it does a very good job for me and for under 500 it is
pretty hard to beat.  I did find out later after I had bought the
machine that troy bilt sells reconditioned equipement.  I do not
know if this is true but you might want to check that out as
well. 


  In article <3hr0c6$j56@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Norikon (norikon@aol.com) writes: >I'm looking for 8hp chipper
clipper shredder all in one with the price >range of $500 to 1.000. I
collected all the literatures and visited some >dealers but I've been
indecisive. I would appreciate any story of your own >experience.
>We have a big yard with so many big and small trees and also incredibly
>many wild blackberries to whack all Summer long.
>



From jdtruss @ island.net Mon Mar  6 10:34:52 EST 1995
Article: 55278 of rec.gardens
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From: jdtruss @ island.net (John D. Truss)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Indoor problem: mealybugs on hoya
Date: 19 Feb 1995 07:38:04 GMT
Organization: Island Internet
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In article <792842754snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk>, Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk (Martin Tom Brown) says:
>
>In article <3hrl48$pqh@infoserver.bgsu.edu>
>           kenr@bgnet.bgsu.edu "Kenneth A Robb" writes:
> 
>> I guess those beautiful streptocarpus I bought a couple years ago came 
>> from a bad source--they brought along a mealybug infestation and despite 
>> everything I could do--touching each with an alcohol-soaked Q-tip, soap 
>> bath, even (groan)spray (rotenone) and then a systemic--they killed off the 
>> streptocarpus, then spread to a ten+ year old hoya.  I've tried the same 
>> things and nothing seems to stop them.  You know how tight the leaves 
>> grow to the stems on hoyas, so it's almost impossible to reach them all 
>> with a Q-tip.  The systemics I've used smell but don't work.  Any 
>> suggestions? 
>
>It's always worth quarantine of new plants for a while to check for latent
>pests - especially mealy and red spider (which are common in greenhouses).
>
>Since you now have a problem - I'd suggest using malathion outside, and
>spray at least 3 times at two week intervals to kill them as they hatch.
>It usually works for me (on cacti), but some plants may mark. 
>
>If you are more organically inclined, Safer's soap & a trace of alcohol
>is supposed to work too (for me it just gives clean mealy bugs). YMMV
>
>Hope this helps.
>Regards,
>-- 
>Martin Brown  <martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk>     __                CIS: 71651,470
>Scientific Software Consultancy             /^,,)__/


I'm very new at the Internet and so I hope this article has the correct 
headings etc. 
 
I have a very old Hoya carnosa that became infested with mealy bug
 and the only thing that seemed to work was a continued treatment of 
Orthene (acephate) sprays at 10 day intervals for a month.  
It is very smelly, but has a relatively low toxicity and is systemic.  
Hope this is of some help.

John D. Truss



From dueck@access.mbnet.mb.ca Mon Mar  6 10:34:54 EST 1995
Article: 55279 of rec.gardens
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From: dueck@access.mbnet.mb.ca (Kelly Dueck)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Martha Stewart
Date: 19 Feb 1995 07:24:45 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
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In <3hrn5r$o8l@newsbf02.news.aol.com> clnichols@aol.com (CLNichols) writes:

>I don't mind if some projects are over my budget or unrealistic for my 
lifestyle because many generate ideas and are educational if nothing else.


I too have only recently discovered Martha Stewart's show and I agree 
that it is an excellent idea generator. So what if many of the projects 
are beyond the budget of most viewers. Most of the things Martha does on 
the show are interesting and creative. At least I can TRY to apply a new 
idea or two to my situation. It's fun!

Kelly Dueck



From hbedu014@huey.csun.edu Mon Mar  6 10:34:55 EST 1995
Article: 55280 of rec.gardens
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From: hbedu014@huey.csun.edu (lynn vavra)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: <ad> GUARANTEED CREDIT REPAIR BY LAW FIRM
Date: 16 Feb 1995 07:51:09 GMT
Organization: California State University, Northridge
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Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam!


From hbedu014@huey.csun.edu Mon Mar  6 10:34:57 EST 1995
Article: 55281 of rec.gardens
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From: hbedu014@huey.csun.edu (lynn vavra)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: SNOW'S ON THE WAY! how to protect bulbs?
Date: 16 Feb 1995 07:55:47 GMT
Organization: California State University, Northridge
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Going off the (original) point a bit, but I too was upset that the
squirrel ate my bulbs, until my cat ate the squirrel...      Lynn.


From blkorbe@srv.PacBell.COM Mon Mar  6 10:34:58 EST 1995
Article: 55282 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!decwrl!pacbell.com!blkorbe
From: blkorbe@srv.PacBell.COM (Brian Korbelik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: <ad> GUARANTEED CREDIT REPAIR BY LAW FIRM
Date: 17 Feb 1995 20:48:53 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell
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In article <7753-174433604@mcube.com>,  <rshiell@mcube.com> wrote:
>
>(To the tune of Monty Python's Spam Song:
>
>Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam,
>Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam.
>
>--
>Mainframes, Minis & Micros     |     Desert Jewel BBS & Online Mall
>5630 District Blvd.   #114     |     Telnet to 204.212.36.4
>Bakersfield, CA      93313     |     FTP to 204.212.36.4
>LandLine  ==  800-949-1959     |     WWW to http:\\www@204.212.36.4


EVERYBODY SING!!!! SPAM! WONDERFUL SPAM!!!!

Would you like the spam, spam, spam, eggs and spam or the.....


Brian Korbelik


"He's NOT the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
			-Monty Python "Life of Brian"







From ggawron@comm.mot.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:03 EST 1995
Article: 55283 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ggawron@comm.mot.com (Glenn Gawron)
Subject: <HELP> info needed on strange plant/bulb
Organization: Motorola
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 08:48:20
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Last year, my grandmother gave me a bunch of bulbs that she 
called "stink lillies".  She gave me an article that describes 
the plant as :

"The voodoo plant or Sacred Lily of India as it sometimes is called, is 
seldom obtainable except from someone who got it from someone, etc., willing 
to share some offshoots from the bulb from which this strange plant grows. "

"The voodoo plant is a remarkable member of the calla family that will 
bloom without soil, indoors in winter.  A bulb forgotten on the basement 
workbench or on a shelf will send up a tall, purplish brown stem from which 
will emerge a calla-lillylike spathe--a really handsome flower but with an 
almost offending odor"

"After flowering, and when the weather turns warm, the bulb can be planted 
in a shaded, sheltered spot in the garden and here it will suprise you again 
by developing into a plant that resembles a palm tree.  During the summer 
sojurn in the garden, the bulb develops the offshoots for new plants.  
Technically, the plant is known as Ilydrosome rivieri."

I currently have about 50 bulbs the largest of which is 10-12" across.  The 
stem right now is about 4 1/2 feet tall and the flower is an additional 
1 1/2 feet tall.  I have wrapped and taped a plastic bag around the flower 
as it has started to stink.  My questions are :
1.  Will cutting the stem off at the flower hurt the bulb?
2.  Is the plastic bag hurting the plant?
3.  if anyone has any more information on this beautiful plant, I would 
greatly appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks in advance!
-Glenn
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Glenn Gawron                          | Internet: ggawron@comm.mot.com|
|Motorola Central Systems Engineering  |    X.400: C10836@email.mot.com|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> Disclaimer-Opinions expressed are those of the sender NOT Motorola <<


From ek912@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:04 EST 1995
Article: 55284 of rec.gardens
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From: ek912@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael John Francis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: variations in scientific names
Date: 16 Feb 1995 10:37:07 GMT
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Hi all - can someone give me any examplesof deviations from scientific names
i.e. a plant that has more than one 'common/local' name?

Replies to francism1@rsc.org

Thanks in advance for your help.

Michael John Francis


From bmoon@cello.gina.calstate.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:05 EST 1995
Article: 55285 of rec.gardens
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From: bmoon@cello.gina.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: use of dormant spray on plum trees in AZ
Date: 19 Feb 1995 07:10:56 -0800
Organization: GINA and CORE+ Services of The California State University
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BGreen1229 (bgreen1229@aol.com) wrote:
: i have spoken to two "experts" about using dormant spray and received two
: diametrically oppossed answers.  

: should i or shouldn't i? ( and if so when?)

: thanks for the help.
	I can't imagine any harm being done by it; I did read your 
earlier posting. Dormant spraying can prevent problems with overwintering 
pests and fungus diseases. In your climate, fungus diseases aren't as 
much a problem, I imagine, but there may still be insects, mites, etc. 
that could be curtailed with a dormant spray. 
	Dormant sprays in this region re recommended for three 
applications. With a longer growing season, your spraying schedule could 
be different (or do you have a longer growing season... high desert.... 
hmmm....) We spray with copper when the leaves fall, about Thanksgiving. 
This would be mixed with a spreader sticker and might also include a 
horticultural oil spray. Around Christmas during a dry spell, we'd spray 
with lime sulfur and oil. Our last spray would come around February with 
copper or oil/sulfur  If the buds have begund to break out, everything is 
off until next year. Of course, dormant spraying is for deciduous fruit 
trees.
	Most peiople who advocate growing orgaically go along with some 
dormant spraying. The sprays are relatively harmless and are sprayed when 
there is no fruit on the tree. you avoid the heavier duty spraying you 
might have to do later.
	Your local County Agriculture office/Cooperative Extension should 
be able to give you the authoritative answers for dormant spraying. 
They may have delegated this responsibility to a knowledgeable Master 
Gardener, but the answer would be apropriate to your conditions and 
calendar; something you will probably not find on the Internet.
Bruce Moon 
Rio Linda, CA


From bmoon@cello.gina.calstate.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:07 EST 1995
Article: 55286 of rec.gardens
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From: bmoon@cello.gina.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Ryobi Tiller
Date: 19 Feb 1995 07:14:46 -0800
Organization: GINA and CORE+ Services of The California State University
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B GOOGLE (bgoogle@aol.com) wrote:
: I just got some info in the mail about a Ryobi Tiller.  It is small, about
: 21 lb.  It is designed differently from, say, the Mantis, in that the
: motor is high up on the handles rather than down by the tines.  I wonder
: if anyone has seen or used these and what the experience was?  Thanks for
: any info.
	There is an attachment for Ryobi weedeaters; it is possible that 
this is what you are talking about? Some who tried it on the net were not 
too happy about it. Requires well-worked soil that could probably be 
worked easile with a hoe or rake.
Bruce Moon
Rio Linda, CA


From afn10290@usenet.freenet.ufl.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:08 EST 1995
Article: 55287 of rec.gardens
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From: afn10290@usenet.freenet.ufl.edu (richard ploch)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: test message!! do not read!
Date: 19 Feb 1995 16:26:49 GMT
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Don't read this one either


From Jane@churly.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:35:10 EST 1995
Article: 55288 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Jane@churly.demon.co.uk (Jane Churly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!peernews.demon.co.uk!churly.demon.co.uk!Jane
Subject: Pittosporum
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I am interested in the collection and propogation of pittosporum and 
would be interested in contacting anyone with 
similar or parallel interests with a view to exchange of 
information and propogation materials.
-- 
Jane Churly



From keziak@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:11 EST 1995
Article: 55289 of rec.gardens
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From: keziak@aol.com (Kezia K)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re:  REQUEST: indoor vines?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 11:13:18 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Co-workers in my office grow golden pothos, which behaves like a vine if
you let it, but doesn't flower.

Another idea: hoya.  My elderly relatives have had one going for seemingly
a century, and it flowers often.  I personally think it has a scraggly
look, but the flowers are nice.

KeziaK


From keziak@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:12 EST 1995
Article: 55290 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: keziak@aol.com (Kezia K)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Nasturiums
Date: 19 Feb 1995 11:13:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I guess I missed most of this thread. I like nasturiums too, but have
always found them to be aphid magnets.  And the aphids are the nasty
looking black kind, too.  I don't use sprays routinely, so if I don't go
out there and wash off the leaves regularly, goodbye plants.  I lost my
whole planting last year because I was pregnant and not up to washing
nasturiums in 90 degree weather!

KeziaK


From afn10290@usenet.freenet.ufl.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:14 EST 1995
Article: 55291 of rec.gardens
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From: afn10290@usenet.freenet.ufl.edu (richard ploch)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Least liked plant
Date: 19 Feb 1995 16:18:38 GMT
Organization: Alachua County Freenet
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References: <19950211.7AD3958.B454@msbbs.com> <3hkao3$cpd@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3hvk1l$776@mrnews.mro.dec.com> <BG14cm5.wilhelm@delphi.com>
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Those hitch hiker seed things. BLAST!


From Evanne@francis.cerf.net Mon Mar  6 10:35:15 EST 1995
Article: 55292 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!news
From: Evanne@francis.cerf.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Apples for Southern Calif
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 08:26:07 PDT
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I live in Redondo Beach about a mile from the ocean.  I planted a Fuji apple 
semi-dwarf tree about four years ago and it is doing okay.  Last year was my 
biggest crop, about 20-25 apples.  They were sweet and crisp.  But it does get 
mealybug badly, so I end up spraying with Safer's soap almost weekly during the 
summer.


From kathy.floritto@sasquat.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:17 EST 1995
Article: 55293 of rec.gardens
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From: kathy.floritto@sasquat.com (KATHY FLORITTO)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: IVY GERANIUMS
Message-ID: <8A37311.1021001591.uuout@sasquat.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 13:05:00 -0800
Distribution: world
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     Is there a secret to cloning ivy geraniums?  Will someone please 
share it?  I've never had difficulty with the "ordinary" 
geranium/pelargonium - but the ivy type defeats me...every single time.

     Help!

                              KATHY

 * 1st 2.00b #3640 * Kathy.Floritto@Sasquat.com




From boake@utkvx.utk.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:19 EST 1995
Article: 55294 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!gt-news!cc.gatech.edu!darwin.sura.net!martha.utk.edu!utkvx.utk.edu!boake
From: boake@utkvx.utk.edu (Chris Boake)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Copper tape for slug control?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 11:59 EST
Organization: University of Tennessee
Lines: 12
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <19FEB199511595440@utkvx.utk.edu>
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In article <3i3eu8$ipm@ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov>, tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov (Tom Rudnick) writes...
>B Kelly (bkelly@dragger.ifmt.nf.ca) writes:
> >> I recently noticed an ad in a gardening magazine for copper tape which is
>> supposed to repel slugs.


THe new issue of Organic Flower Gardening says that it is effective.
They also point out that you can cut yourself on it, so be careful.
My favorite anti-slug treatment was in the "letters" section of the
magazine -- feed the suckers to your pet pirahnas!
--Chris



From MJC14@psuvm.psu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:20 EST 1995
Article: 55295 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!psuvm!mjc14
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 11:20:07 EST
From: martin j. chiaverini <MJC14@psuvm.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <95050.112007MJC14@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Using Epsom salts in in plant soil?
Lines: 9
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jerry Baker does seem to have some unorthodox ideas.  In his houseplant book
he also suggests using Epsom salts, teas, and liquid soap.  Apparently, Epsom
salts (magnesium sulfate) contain two of the important secondary  nutrients
plants need, magnesium and sulfur.  The third is calcium.  Liquid soap is
recommened as a wetting agent to help water penetrate the soil.  Also, the
tannic acid in tea is supposed to help plants' "digestive system", which I
take to mean their uptake of nutrients.  "First Aid for Plants" by Jack
Kramer suggests that a solution of weak tea may be useful for cleansing
soil of fertilizer salts and products of hard water.  Hope this helps.


From MJC14@psuvm.psu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:22 EST 1995
Article: 55296 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!psuvm!mjc14
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 12:08:18 EST
From: martin j. chiaverini <MJC14@psuvm.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <95050.120818MJC14@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Martha Stewart
Lines: 10
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I've tried to resist posting my opinion on Martha Stewart, but I just can't
stand it any longer!  A few years back I saw a promo for the Today Show
indicating that Stewart would be doing a segment on techniques for repotting
houseplants, or something.  As a novice indoor gardener at that time, I
watched hoping to gather some useful information.  It turned out that she
spent the entire segment trying to make new clay pots look old by painting
them with yogurt and moss, or some such nonsense, because heaven knows we
wouldn't want anyone thinking we would buy nice, new, clean pots when old,
chipped, algae-infested ones would do!  I haven't been able to stand to
mention of her name since.


From WinFarm@freenet.ufl.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:23 EST 1995
Article: 55297 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!WinFarm
From: Winstead Farms <WinFarm@freenet.ufl.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herbal ground cover
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 12:19:12 -0500
Organization: Alachua County Freenet
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.950219121548.63255A-100000@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu>
References: <19950218.7B04240.74CF@msbbs.com>
	Lise, Winstead Farms "herbs for all seasons" <9502182234.AA20939@carson.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu
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Status: O
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Sorry for the mess-up, my message wouldn't post.  Was just trying to let 
Anne know that we carry chamomile and she could email to me if she wanted 
more info.
Lise, Winstead Farms "herbs for all seasons"




From heverlyj@ccnet.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:25 EST 1995
Article: 55298 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!ccnet.com!ccnet.com!not-for-mail
From: heverlyj@ccnet.com (Jerry Heverly)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Looking for (Brandywine) Tomato Advice
Date: 19 Feb 1995 09:27:55 -0800
Organization: CCnet Communications (510-988-7140 guest)
Lines: 45
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3i7v2r$k63@ccnet3.ccnet.com>
References: <3i64ki$7fc@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ccnet3
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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R. Myers (marren@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: I'm about to plant about 12 different kinds of tomatoes in my garden. 
: Some of them are Brandywines.  I've heard such good things about these 
: tomatoes, I'm praying they'll do well in my garden.

: CAn anyone give me some general Brandywine tips? I'd rather not have to 
: learn from experience what they like and don't like....

: My garden is windy, but I'll put up a windbreak of some kind.  The soil 
: is sandy, because I live just off the beach. There's plenty of sun, I 
: think, and I plan to use Miracle Grow fertilizer.

: Thanks in advance.
: Renee (Manhattan Beach, CA)
	From *The Total Tomato* by Fred DuBose: "{B}randywine's status as 
the perfect tomato is open to question....No one seems to know where it 
came from or how long it has been around.  It is not commercially 
available{ed. note: 1985}, and may have never been; it has been kept 
alive because its seeds have been passed from one gardener to another.  
And all who grow it agree that its richness and succulence have never 
been equaled.
	But is the Brandywine actually a distinct variety?  Is it even an 
old one?  Most gardeners have the idea that it dates from the nineteenth 
century, but no one can be found who has grown it for more than fifteen 
years.  The old-timers who passed the seeds on have died.  (A 97-year-old 
gardener in Ohio has grown it only since 1970, but says the seeds were 
give to him by a woman now dead, who claimed they had been passed down in 
her family for more than a hundred years.)
	Without doubt Brandywine is very similar to some old beefsteak 
varieties--in particular, to two that are still commercially available, 
Climbing Trip-L Crop and Giant Tree(not to be confused with the so-called 
'tree tomato' advertised in Sunday supplements; the 'tree tomato' is not 
a tomato at all, but an entirely different plant whose fruits happen to 
be red).  Brandywine, like Climbing Trip-L Crop and Giant Tree, is a 
tall-growing, potato-leaved type...and produces large, slightly rough, 
deep pink or purplish fruits.  Growers insist that Brandywine is meatier 
than either, and is indescribably more flavorful.  But a tomato probably 
always tastes better if it is hard to come by.......Days to maturity: 85."
	{It is indeterminate.}
Jerry Heverly, Instr. of Hort, Diablo Valley College, Pleasant Hill, CA

-- 


Jerry Heverly, Oakland, CA


From heverlyj@ccnet.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:27 EST 1995
Article: 55299 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!ccnet.com!ccnet.com!not-for-mail
From: heverlyj@ccnet.com (Jerry Heverly)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What tree/plant is this?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 09:49:24 -0800
Organization: CCnet Communications (510-988-7140 guest)
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <3i80b4$kuq@ccnet3.ccnet.com>
References: <3i5bt3$m8m@gap.cco.caltech.edu>
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Michelle A. Berteig (mberteig@alumni.caltech.edu) wrote:
: Hi,

: I live in the southern CA area, Pasadena area to be more precise.
: In the evenings this time of year (I've just started to notice it),
: you can smell a very good-smelling fragrance in the air, and I
: would love to know what kind of plant is doing it!  I think it may
: be a tree, but I am not sure.  I also believe the fragrance is
: in the air in fall evenings as well.  I've only ever noticed it
: after dark.  It smells so good, like perfume almost, and I'd love
: to have one in my garden! 
	At first I was going to guess that your fragrance was *Cestrum 
nocturnum*, Night-Blooming Jasmine.  My neighbor has one and I enjoy 
night walks past the place to smell it.  But Cestrum ain't bloomin' 
now(summer) so maybe you are smelling *Pittosporum undulatum*, Victorian 
Box.  It's a small-to-medium tree from Australia that blooms all day but 
might seem more fragrant when the off-shore evening breezes catch the 
scent.  It has dark green, wavy leaves and small white flowers.  You 
should find some ugly little capsules underneath the tree, fruit left 
over from last summer.


: Also, my neighbor has a fruit tree of a type I have never seen
: before.  He says the fruits are called sapote, that is a Spanish
: name.  They are round and yellow, about the size of an apple or orange.
: Can anyone tell me more about these?  Can you eat them?  Are they
: good for anything in particular? (except dropping all over my
: back porch??!?! haha)
	We got educated about this tree a couple weeks ago.  (I'd never 
heard of it).  Here's what *Sunset* says:  "*Casimiroa edulis*,  White 
Sapote.  Evergreen, or erratically behaves as deciduous tree.  Zones 15, 
16-24.  Beautiful tropical tree that will withstand more cold than most 
avocadoes, and seems to do well wherever lemons are grown.  To 50ft.
	Tree bears heavy crop of 3-4-in, round fruits, pale green to 
yellow.  Flavor is described in many ways--similar to peach but more 
bland, banana only sweeter, ripe pear in rich syrup, custard with 
banana-peach flavor.  Consistency of papaya.  Fruit ripens August through 
November.  Overripe fruit becomes slightly bitter.....
	{N}eeds ample water and consistent feeding.  Budded trees give 
best fruit, and are grown in limited quantities.  'Coleman', 'Pike', 
'Wilson', and 'Suebelle' are all good varieties."
	I've been wandering the nurseries looking for one, but so far, no luck.
Jerry Heverly, Instr. of Hort, Diablo Valley College, Pleasant Hill, CA


: Thanks for any information.

: -Michelle


-- 


Jerry Heverly, Oakland, CA


From altgroup@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:28 EST 1995
Article: 55300 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: altgroup@aol.com (Altgroup)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herbal ground cover
Date: 19 Feb 1995 12:49:13 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: altgroup@aol.com (Altgroup)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Try Harbor View Garden Co. They have chamomile seeds and plants.
They send an informative catalog by email. Good prices also.
Email harbor@pipeline.com

Thomas Fischer


From richard@interlog.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:31 EST 1995
Article: 55301 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!hookup!interlog.com!not-for-mail
From: richard@interlog.com (Richard Sexton)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: rec.plants.*
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 19 Feb 1995 13:01:12 -0500
Organization: Gryphon Gang North
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <3i8118$676@gold.interlog.com>
References: <3hmjbi$pbr@rodan.UU.NET> <3ho54f$at3@news.rain.org> <3hvo2q$hcq@jac.zko.dec.com> <nick.plummer-1602951952450001@174.52.med.umich.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gold.interlog.com
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu news.groups:110648 rec.gardens:55301
Status: O
X-Status: 

(x-posted to rec.gardens because the denizens there need to be infored of
this; i don't want to give them the impression they're being left out. 
Followups directed to news.groups, where any discussion will ensue)


I'm not advocating the removal or splitting of rec.gardens.

I'd like to move some existing groups into a rec.plants hierarchy,
create some groups that have been asked for over the last year (under
rec.plants, not .gardens) and provide namespace for future plant
newsgroups.

Noted is .bonsai's objection to .plants (I have had no response to
my proposiiton that there should maybe be two bonsai groups, rec.arts
and rec.plants, the former concerned with aesthetics the latter with 
horticulture; Hud ?)


In article <nick.plummer-1602951952450001@174.52.med.umich.edu>,
Nicholas Plummer <nick.plummer@med.umich.edu> wrote:
>
>So, why don't we leave the tree torturers ;-) and outdoor gardeners where
>they are and just set up a new hierarchy for the various specialist plant
>groups which are bound to be formed in the not to distant future.  These
>groups will be harder to find if they are lurking under rec.gardens
>
>rec.plants.orchids
>rec.plants.aquatic  
>rec.plants.cacti
>etc, etc

Capital idea. 

-- 
      "Who are these men who would lead us now ?" - Gordon Lightfoot

  Richard J. Sexton  /  VRx Network Services, Inc.  /  richard@interlog.com


From heiser@wam.umd.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:33 EST 1995
Article: 55302 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cville-srv.wam.umd.edu!heiser
From: heiser@wam.umd.edu (Mark Donald Heiser)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Hot Pepper Plant Problems.
Date: 16 Feb 1995 14:56:56 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland College Park
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3hvp3p$ol4@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>
References: <D3nr0H.55E@freenet.carleton.ca> <3hub27$aag@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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SMarmonkac (smarmonkac@aol.com) wrote:
: No. Peppers need good drainage and sun,  but also like a fair amount of
: water. I also feed mine miracle grow once a week. You should get a good
: yield the first year. Nasturtiums planted as companions help retard pests.
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 Really?  I've only planted nasturtiums once and in my experience
 they were nothing but aphid magnets which is why I list them as
 one of my most hated plants ... but that's another thread. :-)
 I've never had any plant get so infested. Of course, if aphids
 aren't a problem with peppers, I guess that wouldn't be a problem.
 
 Cheers,

 Mark


From cb77@aloha.cc.columbia.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:34 EST 1995
Article: 55303 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!lamarck.sura.net!news.mci.net!infoserv.illinois.net!ddsw1!panix!news.columbia.edu!aloha.cc.columbia.edu!cb77
From: cb77@aloha.cc.columbia.edu (Craig Bingman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: rec.plants.*
Date: 19 Feb 1995 17:18:19 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 7
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References: <1995Feb16.084657.38710@cobra.uni.edu>
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Status: O
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Well written, Kay.  There may or may not be justification for lumping
all the plant related newsgroups into one hierarchy, but saying that
the culture of orchids and bonsai do not constitute "gardening" is Not
one of them.  

Craig



From tigibson@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:35 EST 1995
Article: 55304 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: july bloom
Date: 19 Feb 1995 13:03:50 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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liatrus does beautifully in my zone 5 garden. the dwarf cosmos someone
suggested would be good. brite lights if you want a bright orange
contrast. white if you're going for cool. 
tigibson


From kolling@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:37 EST 1995
Article: 55305 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!kolling
From: kolling@netcom.com (Karen Kolling)
Subject: Re: Beware Totally Tomatoes
Message-ID: <kollingD49DwK.7qH@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <3i34od$ogu@larry.rice.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 17:57:56 GMT
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In article <3i34od$ogu@larry.rice.edu> shel@is.rice.edu (Michelle D Johnson) writes:
>I, like many others, got the Totally Tomatoes catalog and loved it. All these
>peppers and tomatoes that I hadn't seen elsewhere. So I ordered 8 peppers and
>4 tomatoes (I already had tons of each from other places), and 5 starter tray
>flats to use as bottoms for my 6 packs. 
>
>First off, TT charged my credit card account 1/11/95, the day they received
>the order, and didn't SHIP ANYTHING until 1/27/95, more than 3 weeks later. It's
>not against the law or anything, but IT STINKS. No other companies, seed or 
>otherwise, that I deal with do that.

I'm also somewhat ticked off at Totally Tomatoes.  (I ordered from
them last year with no problems.)  I called them a few days ago to ask
where the seed order I'd placed in early February was, and they said
they've scheduled shipping for "next Wednesday", i.e. the 22nd.  The
other seed companies I deal with seem to ship out "just seeds" orders
by first class mail in a day or two.  I've already potted up all the
seedlings from the other companies, and it's so warm here that I'm going
to start setting plants out next week.




From jwalker@InforMNs.k12.MN.US Mon Mar  6 10:35:38 EST 1995
Article: 55306 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!eff!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!mr.net!InforMNs.k12.MN.us!stc1-1.nas.mr.net!user
From: jwalker@InforMNs.k12.MN.US (Janine Dahms Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: HELP! Rabbits
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 19 Feb 1995 18:10:09 GMT
Organization: Internet for Minnesota Schools Project
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <jwalker-190295120812@stc1-1.nas.mr.net>
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My Linda Cambell shrub roses(hardy to zone 2) are being munched by rabbits!
 In Minnesota, we now have about 6 in. snow cover in my zone 3/4.  The
canes are 2-3 ft tall and thorny.  Usually in summer I put a mesh fence
around the rabbits favorite dinner, lillies, and that works well.  I have
tries bloodmeal scattered during summer, but note that I have to initiate
it before they start munching-after they start it's useless.  Dog hair has
not been particularly effective either.  I don't want to fence the roses,
and know if worse comes to worse, they'll grow back from their own roots. 
Any other great ideas?    Janine


From tigibson@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:40 EST 1995
Article: 55307 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Forcing bulbs
Date: 19 Feb 1995 13:20:49 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 4
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Status: O
X-Status: 

i've replanted my forced tulip and daff bulbs and gotten bloom the next
year. i planted tham as early as i could and kept them moist until
planting. now i get a few surprises every spring.
tigibson


From tigibson@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:41 EST 1995
Article: 55308 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: different annuals for sun?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 13:20:55 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 7
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
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i too like unusual annuals, luckily my local nursery puts out hundreds of
varieties. last year i tried a trailing zinnia - it had bright yellow
blooms with red centers, wuite small, but they covered the plant. i wish i
could tell you the latin name, i knew i'd find it this year so i didn't
save it. but it's in the zinnia family.
i also grew black eyed susan vines on a trellis, they grew 6' tall! 
tigibson


From tigibson@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:42 EST 1995
Article: 55309 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Least liked plant
Date: 19 Feb 1995 13:09:34 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Reply-To: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Status: O
X-Status: 

ornamental cabbages when overused in a garden (more than one) are totally
obnoxious. but one can be an adventure.
tigibson


From judy@iris.krldwa.mccaw.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:44 EST 1995
Article: 55310 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nwnexus!nwnexus!mccaw!iris!judy
From: judy@iris.krldwa.mccaw.com (judy johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: software
Date: 16 Feb 1995 00:04:51 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 12
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3hu4r3$qvb@ftp-p.mccaw.com>
Reply-To: judy@iris.krldwa.mccaw.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.204.2.49
Keywords: searching
Status: O
X-Status: 

I am looking for some good gardening software for my PC.
I'd like it to include a good plant reference and also logging capability.

Does anyone know if such a thing exists and, if so, where I can find it?

Thanks in advance,
Judy

judy.johnson@mccaw.com





From wallacec1@jaguar.uofs.edu Mon Mar  6 10:35:45 EST 1995
Article: 55311 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!gopher.cs.uofs.edu!jaguar.uofs.edu!wallacec1
From: wallacec1@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Garden layout software
Date: 16 Feb 95 10:05:51 EST
Organization: University of Scranton
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <1995Feb16.100551.1@jaguar.uofs.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jaguar.cs.uofs.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

I've used Corel Draw to lay out my garden.  Last year I contented myself
with placing little colored circles in the outlines of the bed, and
this year I used some of its plant clip art (resizeable) to plan a
new one.  Next week my new system, complete with color scanner, will
be in place, and I can actually scan pix from the seed catalogs to
put in place.  It's not a program designed for gardens, but it's certainly
worked well for me.
Carol


From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:47 EST 1995
Article: 55312 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: PROPOSED REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Message-ID: <destryD49r2I.31n@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3hojje$cdv@cello.gina.calstate.edu> <3hq9dg$a66@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <destryD42A45.KLK@netcom.com> <D442Hr.EM2@nvl.army.mil>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 22:42:18 GMT
Lines: 37
Sender: destry@netcom13.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Ebeth Jones (bajones@astro) wrote:
: In article <destryD42A45.KLK@netcom.com> destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker) writes:
: > _Gratuitously_ crossposting? Jeez, Alex, lighten up! If someone's 
: >crossposting to several groups, as long as it doesn't violate any 
: >charters, that's his business. If you don't want to reply to him and have 
: >it spread across several groups, edit the newsgroups line before you send 
: >it. 
: >   If someone is posting inappropriately to _any_ group, someone can 
: >always politely remind him/her that the subject of this group is 'such 
: >and such' and he might want to look elsewhere for the info.


: Puh-leeze!

: "as long as it doesn't violate the charters"?  When, oh when, are 
: you going to get it?  It is always September on the net, there will
: always be a newbie who doesn't even have a clue that there *is* a
: charter, much less what the charter says.  And of course we all know
: that the charters are impossible to enforce, polite reminders or
: not.  Your polite reminders will become an end unto themselves,
: filling up so much space in the group that the next thing you know
: you will be requesting votes for a "rec.gardens.enforce.the.charter"
: newsgroup.

    I think you are being _way_ to extreme and the idea that crossposting 
would fill up the newsgroups with unnecessary off-topic postings is being 
overhyped. There will always be crossposting between groups of similar 
subjects, and that is not usually a bad thing...but to suggest that there 
will be mass, wholesale crossposting that will destroy the functionality 
of related gardens groups is irresponsable and inflamatory.
   Newbies are newbies because they don't know any better, once they 
find out how to do things they stop making the same mistakes.    
   Has crossposting destroyed rec.gardens.roses and rec.gardens.orchids?

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From umgendro@ccu.umanitoba.ca Mon Mar  6 10:35:48 EST 1995
Article: 55313 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!Rick.Gendron
From: umgendro@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Rick Gendron)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: RE: Keeping cats out of yer garden.
Date: 19 Feb 1995 18:47:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Manitoba
Lines: 9
Sender: -Not-Authenticated-[4017]
Message-ID: <3i83or$p02@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn1-079.cc.umanitoba.ca
X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca.
Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name.
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hey all,

The suggestions for using chili powder or ground pepper are right on
the money.  If you watch (and this sounds ridiculous) cats before they
urinate or deficate, they always sniff the ground.  Why? Beats me. 
Using pepper or chilies as a deterrent is an excellent way of keeping
out them cats.

-Rick.


From Polikoff@razorbill.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:49 EST 1995
Article: 55314 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!uunet!psinntp!razorbill!Polikoff
From: Polikoff@razorbill.com (Arnold Polikoff)
Reply-To: Polikoff@razorbill.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: CATS how do I keep 'em out!
Date: 19 Feb 1995 15:19:08 GMT
Message-ID: <1899036671.14389193@razorbill.com>
Organization: Razorbill Systems
Lines: 1
Status: O
X-Status: 

	I used to do that until the neighbors called the cops :>)


From Polikoff@razorbill.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:51 EST 1995
Article: 55315 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!uunet!psinntp!razorbill!Polikoff
From: Polikoff@razorbill.com (Arnold Polikoff)
Reply-To: Polikoff@razorbill.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: rec.gardens.organic...Opinions??
Date: 19 Feb 1995 15:24:12 GMT
Message-ID: <2075783166.14407106@razorbill.com>
Organization: Razorbill Systems
Lines: 3
Status: O
X-Status: 

NO. I like to read about all gardening, and plants.

			Arnie


From Polikoff@razorbill.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:52 EST 1995
Article: 55316 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!uunet!psinntp!razorbill!Polikoff
From: Polikoff@razorbill.com (Arnold Polikoff)
Reply-To: Polikoff@razorbill.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: Propagation of Elderberry
Date: 19 Feb 1995 15:27:01 GMT
Message-ID: <1261305854.14425136@razorbill.com>
Organization: Razorbill Systems
Lines: 4
Status: O
X-Status: 

I think they come back because the birds poop out the seeds. I get the plants
all around my yard even where they were not growing the year before.

			Arnie


From Polikoff@razorbill.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:54 EST 1995
Article: 55317 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!psinntp!razorbill!Polikoff
From: Polikoff@razorbill.com (Arnold Polikoff)
Reply-To: Polikoff@razorbill.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: Beware Totally Tomatoes
Date: 19 Feb 1995 15:31:34 GMT
Message-ID: <68415486.14443170@razorbill.com>
Organization: Razorbill Systems
Lines: 8
Status: O
X-Status: 

Write to your credit card company explaining the situation and that you want
them to not pay the company. Read the back of the credit card bill for the
exact way to do this. I did this several times and got satisfaction. What
happens is that you get a credit on your bill if you already paid it. If you
did not pay the bill yet, they do not charge you interest on the unpaid
portion of the bill that is in dispute. The main word here is DISPUTE.

		Arnie


From ssim@netaccess.on.ca Mon Mar  6 10:35:56 EST 1995
Article: 55318 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!hookup!nic.ott.hookup.net!worldlinx.com!alpha.netaccess.on.ca!alpha.netaccess.on.ca!not-for-mail
From: ssim@netaccess.on.ca (Sheila Sim)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PROPOSED REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Date: 19 Feb 1995 14:34:37 -0500
Organization: NetAccess Systems Inc., Hamilton, Ontario
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3i86gd$te@alpha.netaccess.on.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.243.225.10
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

I'm so new to this game I'm not even sure how to get my postings through, 
let alone respond to one.  But as a 4 year (probably very much a novice 
to many of you!!) gardener, I've found the broad category of rec.gardens 
perfectly sufficient.  I'm using TIN so I guess that helps categories 
some of the discussion and I just discovered the ^D to go down a whole 
page at time if I don't want to read the articles on it ... WOW!! Who 
invented this stuff!  Anyway, the broad category gives me the opportunity 
to browse through and discover a neat articles that I might not have gone 
looking for elsewhere.  

I remember someone posting a request to the group that we identify 
ourselves (location and zone) for referenece.  That was certainly a good 
point ... and I've noticed the improvements since.  Along the same lines, 
I think if all users define their subject carefully, readers can pick and 
choose the articles they want to read.  

Since I only get to it once/week, like someone else mentioned, I find it 
really necessary to pick the key interests but like having a single 
source of possible articles. 

For what it's worth.  Let's hope this gets through (wish me luck!!) and 
if anyone out there can give me a few quick pointers on how to use tin 
and save files for future reference I'd be forever grateful!!!  I know 
you're not there to coach on computer processes, but the commercial 
server I've connected to have not been tremendously helpful with this.  
Is there a book on using Tin that I should look for?  

Anyway, thanks for all the great gardening articles - I've got a quarter 
acre in a small town and have discovered the joy and serenity of 
gardening (even in Southern Ontario Clay!!)

Sheila Sim (zone 5-6)
(ssim@netaccess.on.ca)


From rhaar@gmr.com Mon Mar  6 10:35:57 EST 1995
Article: 55319 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!rcsuna.gmr.com!news
From: rhaar@gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herbal ground cover
Date: 16 Feb 1995 17:26:38 GMT
Organization: G.M. R&D Center
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3i01se$645@rcsuna.gmr.com>
References: <3hubn1$agt@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: rhaar@gmr.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: albert.cs.gmr.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3hubn1$agt@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, smarmonkac@aol.com (SMarmonkac) writes:
|>I want to use something in addition to chamomile and creeping thyme as a
|>path groundcover - any suggestions?

Do you want something to use as an herb in cooking or something
that smells nice when you wake on it?

In the later category: 

	Corsican mint
	sweet woodruff

-- 
  	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. R & D Center
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.




From dcamp@epix.net Mon Mar  6 10:35:59 EST 1995
Article: 55320 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!grape.epix.net!peach.epix.net!dcamp
From: Blake Gavitt <dcamp@epix.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Sunset EASTERN Garden Book
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 20:32:36 +0000
Organization: epix.net
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950219202704.4251B-100000@peach.epix.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: peach.epix.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

For group members outside California: Don't gloss over the Sunset Western 
Garden Book. It may just be the best gardening book on the market, and 
many plants that grow in the West grow in other parts of the country.  
But best of all, many pllants grown outdoors in warm climates are grown 
as house plants or conservatory plants elsewhere. In the absence of any 
really good houseplant book on the market currently, I use the Sunset 
book all the time here in Pennsylvania. And with the new version on 
CD-ROM, it will get even more use.


From dfoss@babylon.gain.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:00 EST 1995
Article: 55321 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!naples.gain.com!not-for-mail
From: dfoss@babylon.gain.com (Diana Foss)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Most beloved plant
Date: 16 Feb 1995 09:37:27 -0800
Organization: Gain Technology, Palo Alto, CA.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3i02gn$mt9@babylon.gain.com>
References: <rspear.266.007E6B0D@primenet.com> <3hfo2a$g53@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3hgsvf$edl@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: babylon.gain.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


I love my 70-year-old wisteria: the gorgeous purple flowers that
cover it in the early spring and peek out during the summer, the
shade it provides to my living room when it's hot, and the great
exploding seed pods that pop so satisfyingly when I throw them to
the ground.

I adore daffodils and wish they would last a bit longer.

	Diana "I could go on and on..." Foss

-- 
Diana Foss                                                 dfoss@gain.com

The Rikitandoo! Now what is that? It's something made by the Princess Pat.
It's red and gold, and purple, too. That's why it's called the Rikitandoo.


From ad357@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Mar  6 10:36:02 EST 1995
Article: 55322 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ad357
From: ad357@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Nikolai Nefedow)
Subject: Re: Cruickshank's Quality?
Message-ID: <D43p3A.8pD@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ad357@freenet3.carleton.ca (Nikolai Nefedow)
Reply-To: ad357@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Nikolai Nefedow)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <1995Feb14.072019.27951@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> <3hbvd2$4a2@moon.src.honeywell.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:13:57 GMT
Lines: 35
Status: O
X-Status: 

> In a previous article, hoyme@src.honeywell.com (Ken Hoyme) says:
> 
>>I apologize if this is an FAQ -- I didn't see any discussion of this in the
>>messages queued on my machine.
>>
>>Has anyone had any particularly good or bad experiences with Cruickshank's,
>>from Toronto Canada?  Their latest catalog has us hooked, as we are getting
>>Spring fever.  I would love to order some of their lilies and a couple of
>>clematis, but wonder whether it is too much to gamble a large order on the
>>first try.

I've been ordering from Cruickshank's for years and I've never had any
failures.  I've always been satisfied.  Their bulbs tend to be larger than
I've seen in nurseries and gardens centers.

The best thing about Cruickshank's is that they have the more unusual
varieties of plants or things that are just not seen in your normal garden
centers or nurseries.

Several years ago I bought some clematis paniculata (sp?) and tangutica (sp?)
and only now are these starting to appear at the better garden centers.

Their selection of woodland plants is unsurpassed in Eastern Canada and their
irises ... well no one even come close to the selection of medal and award
winners.

The only word of caution is that some plants could be on the small side
(e.g. tiarella cordifolia - foamflower) but they are guaranteed.  BTW, ours
did very well.


--
Nikolai Nefedow         At Play:  ad357@freenet.carleton.ca
Ottawa, Ontario         At Work:  nefedow@cognos.com
CANADA                            4072867@mcimail.com


From jeter@clark.net Mon Mar  6 10:36:03 EST 1995
Article: 55323 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!jeter
From: jeter@clark.net ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Prune Hibiscus?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 20:12:28 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <3i88nc$m3j@clarknet.clark.net>
References: <3hq7eh$maq@dewey.csun.edu> <BS37koy.telem@delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Status: O
X-Status: 

telem@delphi.com wrote:
: lynn vavra <hbedu014@huey.csun.edu> writes:
:  
: >I have 2 Hibiscus in barrels.  They are at least 10 years old, & doing
: >well.  So well, in fact, my husband is threatening to prune.  I have
: >questions RE: when best to prune (we're in So. Cal.), how to prune, how
: >much to prune, etc.  TIA!                                     Lynn
:  
: Tropical hibiscus (the kind we connect w/ Hawaii)
: can be pruned any time that you think chances for
: frost are over.  Cut back just above an "eye" -  in
: other words just above where a leaf came out.
: Some hybrid varieties simply don't thrive w/o
: pruning. Pruning stimulates new growth and plant
: health in general.
: For info on the American Hibiscus Society email me.
: Tom Miller

My hibiscus had a really hard summer; I live in
Washington, DC. Whiteflies would not leave it alone and it
was really hurting by the time I brought it in. 

I want to revitalize it (looks horrible!) and do the
least damage as possible. So,

Should I determine what kind of hibiscus it is before I 
prune it (down the the ground!!)? Mine is like a bush.

Is there a FAQ? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Lisa Jeter
jeter@clark.net


From revans@msbbs.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:05 EST 1995
Article: 55324 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!news.xmission.com!news
From: revans@msbbs.com (Ruth Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: "bare root" blackberries arrived yesterd
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 14:15:42
Organization: CCUBB (A Great BBS)
Lines: 26
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <19950219.7AAD990.D0A0@msbbs.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: msbbs.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Hi!
>I'm just south of you in Mountain View.
>    Put them in a bucket of water immediatly, to help them recover from
>the shock of shipping.   DON"T let them dry out.  Certain death!
>    AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, go out and dig the hole where you are going to
>put them.   I usually take the sawdust in the bag with the roots and mi
>it with the soil I've just dug out for some free mulch/compost.  Fertiz
>with whatever you want, following directions.  Get those plants into th
>ground as soon as possible!  We're almost past bare-root season in the
>Area.                 .     I'm still waiting for my back-east berries
>be shipped, and I'm worried I'll miss the best dates, and that they'll
>start sprouting in the mail once they hit warm California weather.

>Betty Cunningham(Flyinggoat@aol.com)
>illustrator, animator, and likes to collect dead things

Call the company you ordered them from and insist they mail NOW.  They
probably have the product in cold storage anyway.  I did that one year
with a company that wanted to mail a full month later.  They sent it at
my request.

Ruth
     __             ___        __
__  ////\  /\/\  /\/ _//\ __  /// | Anne McCaffrey: Master Word Crafter|
\\\//// '\/    \/ / /\/ '\\\\///  | Princess:  Cutest Wiggle Tail Ever!|
 \XX/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\__/\/\/ \XX/   | revans@vrb.com or revans@msbbs.com |


From jeter@clark.net Mon Mar  6 10:36:06 EST 1995
Article: 55325 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!jeter
From: jeter@clark.net ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Nasturiums
Date: 19 Feb 1995 20:26:15 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3i89h7$m3j@clarknet.clark.net>
References: <3i6svc$25k@nntp.interaccess.com> <3i7qn5$4bc@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

Kezia K (keziak@aol.com) wrote:
: I guess I missed most of this thread. I like nasturiums too, but have
: always found them to be aphid magnets.  And the aphids are the nasty
: looking black kind, too.  I don't use sprays routinely, so if I don't go
: out there and wash off the leaves regularly, goodbye plants.  I lost my
: whole planting last year because I was pregnant and not up to washing
: nasturiums in 90 degree weather!

: KeziaK

Yeah! Last summer I planted them and they were covered completely with those
aphids! I really tried to pick them off but they would come back stronger than
ever. One question, I live in Washington, DC where the summers are hot and humid.
Is this hard on nasturtium. I expected them to take over the planter I had them in,
but they never got past the aphids.

You think I should try again? I grew them once as a child.

Lisa Jeter
jeter@clark.net


From dcamp@epix.net Mon Mar  6 10:36:07 EST 1995
Article: 55326 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!grape.epix.net!peach.epix.net!dcamp
From: Blake Gavitt <dcamp@epix.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: test message!! do not read!
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 20:22:22 +0000
Organization: epix.net
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950219202132.4251A-100000@peach.epix.net>
References: <1995Feb18.194218.12604@ivax>
NNTP-Posting-Host: peach.epix.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <1995Feb18.194218.12604@ivax> 
Status: O
X-Status: 



On 18 Feb 1995 dldaniel@indyvax.iupui.edu wrote:

> this is a test message!!!  
> 
> 
I bet this message got more readers than any messag in the group. How can 
you pass up a message that says "do not read".> 


From clively@onramp.net Mon Mar  6 10:36:08 EST 1995
Article: 55327 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!hobbes.cc.uga.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!onramp.net!clively
From: clively@onramp.net (Carol M. Lively)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Until my cat ate the squirrel...
Date: 17 Feb 1995 01:03:35 GMT
Organization: On-Ramp; Individual Internet Connections; Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
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In message <3hv0e3$8av@dewey.csun.edu>, hbedu014@huey.csun.edu (lynn vavra) 
writes:

>Going off the (original) point a bit, but I too was upset that the
>squirrel ate my bulbs, until my cat ate the squirrel...      Lynn.

Lynn,

Thanks for the laugh - first one of the day, though I'm sure that it wasn't 
it really very funny for you.

Carol Lively



From moulton@bsl1.bslnet.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:10 EST 1995
Article: 55328 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.indirect.com!bsl1!moulton
From: moulton@bsl1.bslnet.com (Mary A. Moulton)
Subject: =Chicken Wire for Veg Beds?
Message-ID: <D444Jr.EBF@indirect.com>
Sender: usenet@indirect.com (Internet Direct Admin)
Organization: Internet Direct, indirect.com
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:47:51 GMT
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I'm building new beds with cedar 8" high and have been advised to put 
chicken wire in the bottom and up the sides to keep gophers, ground 
squirrels, chipmunks,mice and what-have-you from burrowing into the 
vegies.  Does this really work?  I keep thinking that the wire will get 
tangled up in my tools such as, fork, when I turn the soil.  Also, is 
chicken wire too big for these critters, would it be better to use a 
smaller mesh wire?  Please advise.


From jwalker@InforMNs.k12.MN.US Mon Mar  6 10:36:12 EST 1995
Article: 55329 of rec.gardens
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From: jwalker@InforMNs.k12.MN.US (Janine Dahms Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: PROPOSED REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 16 Feb 1995 22:13:08 GMT
Organization: Internet for Minnesota Schools Project
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References: <brian.792620261@dorite> <3hov2r$o8b@riscsm.scripps.edu> <3hqg6i$gaf@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <1995Feb14.201950.38627@cobra.uni.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stc1-2.nas.mr.net
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I agree with Kay- keep rec gardens as is. I can easily scan all the
articles and select those of interest.  I also like reading about plants
from all over the country, and have had many responses from people outside
my zone 3/4.  Besides, I enjoy readers from the south complaining about the
cold!  It's all relative in Minesota!  Janine Dahms Walker


From diveanddig@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:13 EST 1995
Article: 55330 of rec.gardens
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From: diveanddig@aol.com (Diveanddig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Greenhouses
Date: 16 Feb 1995 17:10:31 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I have a Northern Light greenhouse 10 by 15 ft.  Love it.  Acuired from
Gardeners Supply and erected it myself - a breeze.  Any specific
questions?

Bill Bird, zone 6, NY


From FREEFORU@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:14 EST 1995
Article: 55331 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: FREEFORU@aol.com
Message-ID: <950216140253_23416777@aol.com>
Subject: >>>WHOLESALE FLOWER SUPPLIES!
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 17:49:40 -0500
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA06817; Thu, 16 Feb 95 14:51:53 -0800
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For FREE Wholesale Supplier Information about how YOU
can purchase Flower Supplies & MORE at LOW, LOW
WHOLESALE PRICES, simply E-mail  FREE FOR U@aol.com
Be sure to include the words "Flower Info" in your "Subject:"
header, or in the request itself, otherwise your request cannot
be properly processed. 
We will respond with your FREE information within 48 hours!





From cev@clam.rutgers.edu Mon Mar  6 10:36:16 EST 1995
Article: 55332 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!clam.rutgers.edu!not-for-mail
From: cev@clam.rutgers.edu (Cara Vandy)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: witch hazel
Date: 16 Feb 1995 17:50:56 -0500
Organization: Rutgers University
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Message-ID: <3i0ksg$q8s@clam.rutgers.edu>
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Keywords: witch hazel?
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	What is the diference between witch hazel and forsythia?  I just 
read a post describing witch hazel as a small tree, and here i always 
thought it was a bush.   I thought witch hazel was very similar to 
forsythia, but smaller, with fewer flowers that bloom before forsythia.  
Am I just looking at young, skinny forsythia?  
		CEV




From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:17 EST 1995
Article: 55333 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: rec.gardens.organic...Opinions??
Message-ID: <destryD49qqA.2K2@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
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KAI202 (kai202@aol.com) wrote:
: I vote for organic gardening tips and help to stay on this list.  We need
: to inform people of the great benefits of organic gardening.

    There's no reason organic gardening tips and help _wouldn't_ stay on 
this newsgroup if there  was an organic gardening newsgroup. _Every_ 
organic gardener who has emailed me about the proposed rec.gardens. 
whatever organic group...(EVERY one, and I've got about 50 saved messages 
now) says they would continue to read and post to rec.gardens but would 
really appreciate somewhere to talk about organic methods _in detail_ 
with other orgainc gardeners.

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From jfsanders@delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:18 EST 1995
Article: 55334 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!jfsanders
From: jfsanders@delphi.com (jack sanders)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: wildflowers in not so full sun?
Date: 16 Feb 1995 23:15:05 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
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Anyone interested in shade-loving wildflowers might want to look for a book
called "Growing Woodland Plants," by Clarence and Eleanor Birdseye (yes, the
same Birdseye of the food brand -- Clarence invented the modern process of
freezing vegetables, but was also a wildflower gardener of considerable skill
and repute). 

This book was originally published by Oxford University Press in 1951 but was
subsequently reprinted, starting in 1972, by Dover in an inexpensive
paperback. The book may be out of print, but many libraries probably have it. 

"Growing Woodland Plants" has a lot on shade-loving wildflowers, but also a
sizable section on ferns. It also has a lot on the care of shaded wild
gardens. 

--Jack Sanders, Ridgefield, Conn., jfsanders@delphi.com
   ["Hedgemaids and Fairy Candles: The Lives &  Lore of North American
Wildflowers,"     Ragged Mountain Press/McGraw-Hill, 1993]


From cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:36:25 EST 1995
Article: 55335 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk (Gary Cooper)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!wordshop.demon.co.uk!Cooper
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
Distribution: world
References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <HACHEYB.95Feb16132352@bmerh9f2.bnr.ca>
Organization: Wordshop
Reply-To: cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk
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In article <HACHEYB.95Feb16132352@bmerh9f2.bnr.ca>
           hacheyb@bmerh9f2.bnr.ca "Brian Hachey" writes:

<much deleted to save bandwidth>

> The only reason I post this is because I get the impression that most
> of the anti-"shredder" people out there want to keep things exactly
> the way they are.  I'd ask that they at least consider the merits of
> this one change.
> 

I certainly have no problem with that - but I'd rather it was not in
a new "plants" hierarchy, which would be a logical nonsense if it was
applied as is being proposed. 

-- 
Gary Cooper


From slbailey@bu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:36:27 EST 1995
Article: 55336 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!world!news.bu.edu!slbailey
From: slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
Date: 16 Feb 1995 23:14:15 GMT
Organization: Boston University
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Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3i0m87$e61@news.bu.edu>
References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <HACHEYB.95Feb16132352@bmerh9f2.bnr.ca>
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Mike put in a plea for "at least one change", a newsgroup about houseplants.
This is not a "change" really, or it shouldn't be -- it's an addition.
Those who have been around here al ong time know I have always, in these
discussions, used houseplants as one logical and viable separate group -- it
ISN'T the same as "gardening".

Frankly, I think the problem here is insufficient interest.  If somebody who
WANTS a houseplants group (not my interest, so I'm not gonna do it! ;^) )
could post a proposal and follow the "starting a new newsgroup" procedure,
which is posted in one of the news.* groups, maybe there would turn out to be
among the lurkers enough support to start one.  It seems to me, though, that
the majority of houseplant discussion comes from people who zap in and ask how
to keep their office begonia/african violet/cactus/philodendron alive, then
disappear, often with "please e-mail since I don't follow this newsgroup"
attached.  Maybe having one place for houseplants alone would make this
different, but I'm not sure.  

At any rate, fragmenting rec.gardens to acquire a houseplants group is not
a good solution.  Starting rec.houseplants might be.

Sherry



From edrn@dlep1.itg.ti.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:28 EST 1995
Article: 55337 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!usenet
From: edrn@dlep1.itg.ti.com (Lynnette)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Disaster: Novice plants seeds to save money...help !!
Date: 16 Feb 1995 23:41:30 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments
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NNTP-Posting-Host: lynnette.corp.ti.com
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Status: O
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I visited my local nursery in the throes of a thrifty mood, and bought 
a bunch of flower seed packets. Last year, I spent about $40 on
6 packs of begonias alone !! This year, I was going to play it wise and 
plan ahead. I bought three packs of Impatien seeds and planted them
in organic potting soil, as suggested by the teenaged "garden" 
manager...hmmm...Now, over a week later, no sprouts. Nothing. 
The seeds were so small, I used tweezers to plant them. 

Any advice ? I spent $6 on seeds, and I fear the advice of the "manager"
was bad.

Copyright 1995 by
Lynnette Edrington Dallas, Tx
All rights reserved.


From smiller@hpcc01.corp.hp.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:30 EST 1995
Article: 55338 of rec.gardens
From: smiller@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Sara Miller)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:12:56 GMT
Subject: Re: Least liked plant
Message-ID: <3740120@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>
Organization: HP Corp Computing & Services
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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/ hpcc01:rec.gardens / revans@msbbs.com (Ruth Evans) /  9:44 pm  Feb  8, 1995 /
This may be a strange topic, but what is your least liked plant?  What

Thanks for the opportunity to get this off my chest:

I HATE PRIVET!!!!

Also to a lessor degree, pyracantha and cotoneaster.  This could be directly
related to my neighbor's yard in which all three grow entirely unchecked, so
not only am I losing my morning sun (he is on the southeast side), but I
am constantly battling (sp?) little privets, pyracantha, and cotoneasters 
all over my yard!  

Hmmm... Come to think of it maybe it's my neighbor's irresponsibility
I hate...

Sara Miller
smiller@corp.hp.com
Menlo Park
Zone 9


From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:32 EST 1995
Article: 55339 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: PROPOSED REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Message-ID: <destryD49rKy.3n6@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <brian.792620261@dorite> <3hov2r$o8b@riscsm.scripps.edu> <3hqg6i$gaf@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <1995Feb14.201950.38627@cobra.uni.edu> <792860357snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <3htkkg$4ql@news.bu.edu> <destryD44EBr.1t2@netcom.com> <3i2t57$ip1@news.bu.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 22:53:22 GMT
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Sherry Bailey (slbailey@bu.edu) wrote:
: Fellwalker (destry@netcom.com) wrote:


: :    I've never seen a gardening magazine (or any other magazine) that 
: : didn't put a table of contents at the begining so you could find what 
: : subjects you were interested in, and I've never seen anything short of a 
: : gardening encyclopedia that had (up to) 300 articles in every issue. You 
: : get something that big and it starts making sense to split things into 
: : "chapters".

: What newsreader are you using?  I have used at least three different ones on
: UNIX, and all of them thread the subject lines -- THOSE are your chapters. The
: most obvious of these is tin, which sorts all the articles into subject lists
: and even BRINGS BACK previously read and lost postings to which new followups
: are being added... my sysadmin led me to believe that tin is freeware
: available for all UNIX systems.  But even in rn and the other one I can't
: remember now, there is always a command key to follow a thread foreward or
: backward, so if not as tidy as in tin, the capacity to have "chapters" is
: still there.

    TIN doesn't sort postings into subjects, it gives you a list of the 
individual threads active. Today, after being offline for 23 hours, there 
were 310 individual threads with new postings (if I pull in all active 
threads, even without new postings, thre are almost 600). That means that 
even with TIN set to list only threads with new posts, (and knowing how 
to use my newsreader), I'm still scanning through 300+ 'subjects' every 
time I sign on, many with multiple posts per thread. 

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From 0542@delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:33 EST 1995
Article: 55340 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: Ben A. Harris <0542@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: American Chesnut Cooperators Foundation Information
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 16:16:44 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <h634020.0542@delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com
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A note on the American Chesnut Cooperators Foundation.....

The American Chesnut Cooperators' Foundation is a nonprofit
scientific and educational foundation dedicated to restoring the
American chesnut to its former place in our Eastern hardwood
forests. Priorities include the development of blight-resistant
all-American chesnuts and economical biological control measures
against chesnut blight in the forest enviroment.

The foundation distributes seed nuts (in October) and seedlings (in
November) to members who agree to report each September on their
trees' progress. Report forms are printed in the fall newsletter
for this purpose. An annual donation of $20 is suggested for
membership; otherwisw, a sum sufficient to cover our costs.

ACCF distributions are very large scale trials of the early
products of open pollination in our breeding orchards. Blight
resistance of parent trees is inherited by only some of their
offspring. More generations of breeding are necessary to produce
American chesnuts with blight resistance that is regularly
inheritable. When ACCF stock is planted within this area infested
by blight, natural selection will reveal the resistant individuals.

Other projects for cooperators include managing selected aging
clearcuts for American chesnut revival and spring grafting clinics.
To receive more information or to join our work, please write to
ACCF, 2667 Forest Service Road 708, Newport Virginia 24128. 

......................................................

As a member of ACCF, I have taken the task of answering periodic
inquiries which appear on rec.gardens. If there are specific
questions about American chesnut revival, I can provide e mail
reply within the limits of my knowledge. I am a cooperator
dedicated to helping out on the long term project. 

........................................................
BEN A HARRIS       615 239 0526     fax 615 239 0526
E MAIL 0542@delphi.com              Kingsport Tennessee
........................................................


From Moira_Carlson@mindlink.bc.ca Mon Mar  6 10:36:35 EST 1995
Article: 55341 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!mindlink.bc.ca!a8331
From: Moira_Carlson@mindlink.bc.ca (Moira Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Tomato blight
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 16:52:05 -0800
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
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Distribution: world
Message-ID: <65419-793241525@mindlink.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mindlink.net
Status: O
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In article <95048.131949KRUCK@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>, KRUCK@wvnvm.wvnet.edu
writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <95048.131949KRUCK@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
> Posted: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 13:19:49 EST
>
> Hi.  I'm gardening in Morgantown, West Virginia, and last
> summer everyone got tomato blight.  I do companion-type
> plantings, and had tomato plants all over my small garden
> area.  People say not to plant tomato in the same place
> for three years after you get the blight, but that would
> mean no tomatoes.  Are there any other options?  Are there
> any "brands" of tomato plants that are resistant enough
> to blight that I could still plant them in the same place?
> Any help would be greatly appreciated...
>
> Keith Ruckstuhl


This is a tough one.  The fungus that causes late blight (Phytophthora
infestans) is a nasty bit of business.  Here are a few suggestions...

1. Can you plant the tomatoes against a south wall, under an overhang or
under a temporary covering...the fungus is spread by rain and wind so
keeping the plants dry will give you a better chance.

2. Don't compost any diseased vines.

3. Don't over fertilize or over-water and only water the ground (don't use
sprinklers).

4. Watch the plants and remove any diseased leaves the minute they appear.

Also, this is completely unscientific, just something I have noticed in my
garden, but I have found that the cherry tomatoes seem to have slightly
more resistance to the blight than the regular size tomatoes -may just be a
fluke.

Good luck!
Moira


From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:36 EST 1995
Article: 55342 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!gmi!srvr1.flint.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: PROPOSED REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Message-ID: <destryD44E1B.147@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <brian.792620261@dorite> <3hov2r$o8b@riscsm.scripps.edu> <3hqg6i$gaf@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <1995Feb14.201950.38627@cobra.uni.edu> <792860357snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 01:12:47 GMT
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Status: O
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Gary Cooper (Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk) wrote:

: Why do people seem to feel that just because there are x-hundred
: posts a day that they have to *read* them all? Even without a
: threaded newsreader it's no trouble at all to scan through the 
: headers and only read those which strike you as interesting. If we
: split the group the really keen among us (ok, ok, the obsessives!)
: will probably take most of the new groups and end-up with even 
: more to scan, as the total number of posts will be bound to rise.

   I read them all because I'm _interested_ in more than a few types of 
gardening. However, I wouldn't buy a loosefeaf gardening book, take the 
pages out, and mix them up on the floor...then try to read it. I would 
look through it by chapter to find areas that I was interested in. 
   That's all that's being proposed here. Taking a gardening book, 
rec.gardens, and giving it chapters so it's easier to read.

  If the number of posts rise if the group is subduvided, GREAT! That 
means more gardeners are sharing more information...and probably having 
an easier time reading it then if it was all mixed up in one pile.

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From linda@annie.wellesley.edu Mon Mar  6 10:36:38 EST 1995
Article: 55343 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!wellesley.edu!annie.wellesley.edu!linda
From: linda@annie.wellesley.edu (Linda M. French)
Subject: Re:  Equal time for ivy
Message-ID: <1995Feb19.214432.10362@olaf.wellesley.edu>
Sender: news@olaf.wellesley.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: annie.wellesley.edu
Organization: Department of Astronomy, Wellesley College, Wellesley, MA
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 21:44:32 GMT
Lines: 23
Status: O
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Jerry Heverly wrote:
The ivy of
Wellesley(Parthenocissus) is *totally* different than the ivy on most of

the 'least-liked' lists(Hedera).
Jerry Heverly, Instr. of hort, Diablo Valley College, Pleasant Hill, CA
-- 

I may be from near Boston, but we do have both "Boston ivy" and true
ivy, Hedera, and I do know the difference.  I was most definitely 
referring to Hedera, specifically many interesting cultivars including
"Goldheart", "Buttercup", and "Glacier".

Has anyone seen the adult form of Hedera?  Supposedly the leaves change
shape, it produces berries, and it takes a shrublike appearance.
I'd love to see this.  The vining form of ivy that we all know is 
a juvenile form.

Linda





From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:39 EST 1995
Article: 55344 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!gmi!srvr1.flint.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: PROPOSED REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Message-ID: <destryD44EBr.1t2@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <brian.792620261@dorite> <3hov2r$o8b@riscsm.scripps.edu> <3hqg6i$gaf@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <1995Feb14.201950.38627@cobra.uni.edu> <792860357snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <3htkkg$4ql@news.bu.edu>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 01:19:03 GMT
Lines: 25
Sender: destry@netcom11.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Sherry Bailey (slbailey@bu.edu) wrote:

: There IS no satisfactory way to divide the subject of gardening -- the
: solution is to scan your subjects and only read the ones you find interesting,
: skipping the rest.  If you can use "tin" or another threaded news reader
: instead of rn or one of the older options, the threads are more obvious, the
: subject list shorter.

: I say REAL gardeners need access to the gamut of information, even if they
: choose to skip all "deer and animal pest" postings that week... I never saw a
: gardening magazine that limited itself to only one aspect of gardening -- even
: Organic Gardening, which comes closest, has articles on ornamentals, edibles,
: lawncare, tools, pest control, and tons of other things some people want to
: see in separate newsgroups.  

   I've never seen a gardening magazine (or any other magazine) that 
didn't put a table of contents at the begining so you could find what 
subjects you were interested in, and I've never seen anything short of a 
gardening encyclopedia that had (up to) 300 articles in every issue. You 
get something that big and it starts making sense to split things into 
"chapters".

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From MRO93001@UConnVM.UConn.Edu Mon Mar  6 10:36:41 EST 1995
Article: 55345 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!bellboy.ucc.uconn.edu!UConnVM.UConn.Edu!MRO93001
From: MRO93001@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: cacti catalogs
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 15:33:47 EST
Organization: University of Connecticut
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <1734ADB0AS86.MRO93001@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <D3LoDM.zC0@bocanews.bocaraton.ibm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vm.ucc.uconn.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <D3LoDM.zC0@bocanews.bocaraton.ibm.com>
lojohn@vnet.ibm.com writes:
>
>Looking for catalogs to order cacti and succulents from within
>the USA.  ALso looking for books or magazines that deal with
>cacti and succulents.
>
 
I have found that the best place to mail order cactus plants and seeds is:
         Mesa Garden
         Box 72
         Belen, NM 87002
 
         catalog sent in return for 2 stamps.
 
Their plants are always correctly labeled and in beautiful condition, and their
prices are the lowest around.  Their selection is HUGE!!  Their catalog can
be somewhat intimidating, though - it has no illustrations or common names,
just latin binomials, collection data, and a very brief descriptions.  So it
is helpful to have some illustrated books to look through when you order....
"Cacti" by Clive Innes and Charles Glass is a good place to start.  "Lexicon of
Succulent Plants" by Herman Jacobsen is a classic reference on the non-cactus
succulents, though its illustrations leave something to be desired.
"Succulents: the Illustrated Dictionary" by Sajeva and Costanzo is supposed to
be good, but I haven't seen it yet.  Anyway, you should be able to pick these
up at:
        Rainbow Gardens Bookshop
        1444 E. Taylor st
        Vista, Ca 92084
        catalog = $2.00
 
Finally, you might think about joining the Cactus and Succulent Society of
America  (Box 35034;  DesMoines, Ia 50315-0301)  The society's bi-monthly
journal contains a nice mix of articles on cultivation, taxonomy, conservation,
and ecology.  Membership is ridiculously cheap at 30.00 per year.
 
I hope this helps!
 
                  -Tsunami
                   "Kono you no naka wa sonna ni amakunai!"


From bolducd@ERE.UMontreal.CA Mon Mar  6 10:36:43 EST 1995
Article: 55346 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!CC.UMontreal.CA!bolducd
From: bolducd@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Bolduc Diane)
Subject: Sweetpeas
Message-ID: <D49n37.M01@cc.umontreal.ca>
Sender: news@cc.umontreal.ca (Administration de Cnews)
Organization: Universite de Montreal
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 21:16:17 GMT
Lines: 25
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi,
   Does anyone have tips on growing sweetpeas in a hanging basket? 
I have tried since the two past years to grom them this way but they died
before the steams reached more then a feet. Fist, I thought I had put too
much peat moss in the soil mix (black soil, peat moss, sand) so they where
too damp I guess. And when they seemed to be healty they wheren't growing
very much even if it was placed in a full sun area. Also, do I have to
stick to dwarf one or it doesn't matter?

Thanks,

Diane
Zone 5 (CAN)
Zone 4-4a (USAD)???

           /^^\\
       ___|____|___
          ( 00 )
------oOO--(__)--OOo--------
| You can post it in the   |
| newsgroup                |
| OR                       |
| e-mail me at:            |
| bolducd@ere.umontreal.ca |
----------------------------


From eaplatt@tuna.hooked.net Mon Mar  6 10:36:44 EST 1995
Article: 55347 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!its.hooked.net!tuna.hooked.net!not-for-mail
From: eaplatt@tuna.hooked.net (Elizabeth Platt)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How about artichokes in Zone 7?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 17:45:18 -0800
Organization: Hooked
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <3i8s7e$s0@tuna.hooked.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tuna.hooked.net
Status: O
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marlap1041@aol.com (MarlaP1041) wrote:


>
>I saw artichokes growing at the county fair on Cape Cod 
>(MA) last summer &  they were beautiful! I'm trying 
>them in my garden this summer using seed I  have 
>already started under gro-lights. There's no reason you 
>couldn't grow  them too. Use seeds especially for 
>northern climates. Good luck!        
>Marla

...and the New York Times ran an article about a week or so 
ago, specifically about gardeners growing artichokes "back 
East".  One suggestion was to cold-treat the seeds in the 
fridge or freezer for about six weeks before planting.  If 
anyone is interested in the info, you can e-mail me, and I'll 
either give you the exact date, or excerpt the relevant parts 
of the article for you.  Since I live in artichoke heaven, the 
article caught my eye!

-- eaplatt@hooked.com





From bajones@astro Mon Mar  6 10:36:46 EST 1995
Article: 55348 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!gmi!srvr1.flint.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!cmcl2!admii!nvl-times!astro!bajones
From: bajones@astro (Ebeth Jones)
Subject: Re: PROPOSED REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Message-ID: <D442Hr.EM2@nvl.army.mil>
X-Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of NVL
Sender: news@nvl.army.mil
Organization: U.S. Army Night Vision & Electronic Sensors
References: <3hojje$cdv@cello.gina.calstate.edu> <3hq9dg$a66@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <destryD42A45.KLK@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:03:26 GMT
Lines: 39
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <destryD42A45.KLK@netcom.com> destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker) writes:
>Adam Finkelstein (adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu) wrote:
>: In article <3hojje$cdv@cello.gina.calstate.edu>,
>: Bruce A. Moon <bmoon@cello.gina.calstate.edu> wrote:
>
>: >	I go along with the poster who advocated rec.gardens.edible, 
>: >rec.gardens. ornamental and rec.gardens.misc. There is too much crossing 
>: >over between interests with the finer distinctions.
>
>:  What would keep posters from gratuitously crossposting to all these groups?
>:  Adam
>
> _Gratuitously_ crossposting? Jeez, Alex, lighten up! If someone's 
>crossposting to several groups, as long as it doesn't violate any 
>charters, that's his business. If you don't want to reply to him and have 
>it spread across several groups, edit the newsgroups line before you send 
>it. 
>   If someone is posting inappropriately to _any_ group, someone can 
>always politely remind him/her that the subject of this group is 'such 
>and such' and he might want to look elsewhere for the info.


Puh-leeze!

"as long as it doesn't violate the charters"?  When, oh when, are 
you going to get it?  It is always September on the net, there will
always be a newbie who doesn't even have a clue that there *is* a
charter, much less what the charter says.  And of course we all know
that the charters are impossible to enforce, polite reminders or
not.  Your polite reminders will become an end unto themselves,
filling up so much space in the group that the next thing you know
you will be requesting votes for a "rec.gardens.enforce.the.charter"
newsgroup.

-- 
Elizabeth Jones         E-MAIL: bajones@nvl.army.mil

"After long thought and much perplexity, to be very brief was all 
that she could determine on with any confidence of safety."  Jane Austen


From macent@mindlink.bc.ca Mon Mar  6 10:36:47 EST 1995
Article: 55349 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!news.mindlink.net!news
From: susan macdonald or kevin o'toole <macent@mindlink.bc.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FLORAL SWITCH PLATES!
Date: 20 Feb 1995 00:03:42 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! Communications Corp.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3i8m8u$nqp@deep.rsoft.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: line17.nwm.mindlink.net
Status: O
X-Status: 

I thought most of you would be interested in my craft.

I make and sell to stores, craft fairs etc. switch plates (backing 
behind your light switches).  These are done be decoupage and finished
with a high gloss varnish.  They look very professional and last 
for years.

One of my top selling switch plates are of flowers (even though I do
just about anything).  If you are looking for a certain type of flower
or just an arrangement I have some beautiful one's for sale.

I do both the older type of switch plates (with small rectangular 
switch in the middle) and the decora type (large rocker switch).  The
prices are very reasonable and start at $5.00 for single and work there
way up for double, triple, etc.

Also have some beautiful handpainted ones done by well known artist 
throughout the U.S. and Canada - Nancy O'Toole.  These also are
washable and start at $10.00 for single.


If you would like some more information please e-mail me at 
"MacEnt@mindlink.bc.ca".  

If you have something else in mind - I have over 100 different subject
materials. 

My hot sellers (besides flowers) are:  Celestial, Victorian, Disney,
Angels, Sports (mainly hockey) and animals.

Talk to you soon.

Susan Macdonald (MACDONALD ENTERPRISES) 


From fettrow.1@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Mar  6 10:36:49 EST 1995
Article: 55350 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!slip1-57.acs.ohio-state.edu!fettrow.1
From: fettrow.1@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (roger w fettrow)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Opinions on Most Popular Herbs
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 00:13:32 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <fettrow.1.1.2F47DEAB@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
References: <3hb0uo$j2k@babylon.gain.com> <3hcaqf$qt5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip1-57.acs.ohio-state.edu
Summary: Especially for Kezia K
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1]
Status: O
X-Status: 

From: Fettrow C
>Newsgroups: rec.gardens
>Subject: Re: Opinions on Most Popular Herbs
>Date: 19 Feb 1995
>Reply-To: fettrow.1@osu.edu 


>To Kezia K and other "herbies":  I missed the original post too, but am an 
herb lover and grower, and wished to respond to your herb experiences.  We too 
have rosemary indoors in a pot this year.  We've had trouble w/white flies. 

I've grown basil (oscillum bascillum sp?) for four years.  We adore it.  My 
husband and I too make pesto. Love it!  

My oregano has not sprawled, however it hasn't been very potent.  It's next to 
a fence and a bush, is not watered ALOT, and gets almost a day's sun.  Any 
advise?

However, thyme is one of my favorites.  It grows beautifully, smells like 
magic, and makes almost any food item unforgettable.  But help, it's a bit 
hard to harvest off its twigs.    


From pen7cmc@cabell.vcu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:36:50 EST 1995
Article: 55351 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!freenet.vcu.edu!cabell.vcu.edu!not-for-mail
From: pen7cmc@cabell.vcu.edu (Charles M. Castevens)
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: corn
Date: 19 Feb 1995 21:13:07 -0500
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3i8trj$7el@cabell.vcu.edu>
References: <3i29to$8gi@cabell.vcu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cabell.vcu.edu
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.stupidity:30964 rec.gardens:55351
Status: O
X-Status: 


%% Newsgroups: alt.stupidity,rec.gardens
%% Subject: Re: corn
%% References: <3i29to$8gi@cabell.vcu.edu>
%% 
%% pford@cabell.vcu.edu (Phil D. Ford) writes: 
%% 
%% 
%% I like corn.

yea, well, i liked it before you did.


2:30 snack?



From tigibson@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:51 EST 1995
Article: 55352 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Most beloved plant
Date: 19 Feb 1995 16:44:39 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 8
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3i8e47$875@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <sbegley.48.2F464CEB@voicenet.com>
Reply-To: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

i agree. each season has it's own beloved plant. in spring it's the
combination of huge white maureen tulips and my bleeding heart. next comes
my deepe purple bearded iris and the foxgloves. for midsummer my
liatrus/cosmos combo is almost beat by my orange asclepsia (perennial
butterfloy bush) and my purple balloon flower. late summer my snapdragons
and cleomes are a standout. i wouldn't want a stagnant garden! i love the
changes, the new discoveries almost every day. i can't wait until april!!!
tigibson


From tigibson@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:36:53 EST 1995
Article: 55353 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Any butterfly gardeners out there?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 16:49:19 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 6
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3i8ecv$88l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3i66pd$l1f@ns.oar.net>
Reply-To: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

i get a fair amount of butterflies in my garden, but i want MORE. does
anyone have any suggestions for host plants that will attract the
caterpillars? i would share some foliage with them.
ps: try purple liatrus in your gardens, those really attract the
butterflies.
tigibson


From ak355@lafn.org Mon Mar  6 10:36:54 EST 1995
Article: 55354 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.alpha.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl.com!amd!netcomsv!lafn.org!lafn.org!ak355
From: ak355@lafn.org (Richard Goczal)
Subject: Any More Weavers in the Garden ?
Message-ID: <1995Feb17.211535.26386@lafn.org>
Sender: news@lafn.org
Nntp-Posting-Host: lafn.org
Reply-To: ak355@lafn.org (Richard Goczal)
Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 21:15:35 GMT
Lines: 11
Status: O
X-Status: 


If you handweave, a group of 60 weavers have united.  If you
would like to be part of the group, send the following to me:

your name, e-mail address, loom brands you own

Bye,
Lili Goczal
ak355@lafn.org

-- 


From nstn2392@fox.nstn.ca Mon Mar  6 10:36:58 EST 1995
Article: 55355 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!halifax-ts1-48.nstn.ca!user
From: nstn2392@fox.nstn.ca (Braid/Mandale)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: H Pepper seedlings - top / trim?
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 19 Feb 1995 09:26:29 -0400
Organization: ChesterNS
Lines: 32
Sender: news@nstn.ns.ca
Message-ID: <nstn2392-190295052727@halifax-ts1-48.nstn.ca>
References: <3hmef6$o49@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 


We find that all kinds of different peppers grow to different sizes - it is
not surprising the habeneros are behaving - they tend to be bushy and
stocky anyway.  You should probably try "pinching" out the tops of at least
half of the other peppers to see if that will slow them down - also
providing a cooler environment will slow them down...we live in Nova Scotia
Canada and start our peppers in February/March to go outside in June - hope
this helps.

In article <3hmef6$o49@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, breenmt@aol.com (BREENMT)
wrote:


> I think I started some of my Hot Peppers a little too early and now find
> myself with some Hungarians, Anehiems and native Arbols that seem (to me)
> a little large considering that it is still feb.!  
> 
> Questions is... should I top them and let them branch out?  My lighting
> stand can only go up to 10-14 inches from ground up.  The Habeneros are
> behaving themselves quite nicely... but these others... well... live and
> learn about planting times...
> 
> Can I top these guys and still have a nice crop or do I have to build
> another stand that allows a little more latitude?
> 
> Any pointers from pepper folks would be 'mucho appreciated'.
> 
> Michael  :-()  Mas calor, sabor y olor - Just a saying in Jalisco, MX

-- 
Goodbye from 
Braid/Mandale


From nstn2392@fox.nstn.ca Mon Mar  6 10:36:59 EST 1995
Article: 55356 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!halifax-ts1-48.nstn.ca!user
From: nstn2392@fox.nstn.ca (Braid/Mandale)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Garden Clubs
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 19 Feb 1995 09:34:14 -0400
Organization: ChesterNS
Lines: 13
Sender: news@nstn.ns.ca
Message-ID: <nstn2392-190295053401@halifax-ts1-48.nstn.ca>
Status: O
X-Status: 

Our Programming Committee of the Chester Garden Club are looking for new
ideas for our club.  Here in Chester, Nova Scotia we have a very active
garden club which for the past 55 years has been encouraging beauty in and
around our village.  We look after two parks, bring in speakers and have
workshops to do with gardening.  We have "open gardens" where visitors can
stop by and really get a good look at the garden. Each year we also hold a
flower show in July where we get alot of entries of arrangements, specimens
and houseplants.  Is there anyone out there who has an unusual or novel
idea you have used successfully in your garden club?

-- 
Goodbye from 
Braid/Mandale


From 1420@fox.nstn.ns.ca Mon Mar  6 10:37:01 EST 1995
Article: 55357 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!nstn.ns.ca!nntp-user
From: john h milligan <1420@fox.nstn.ns.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Ornamental Grasses
Date: 19 Feb 1995 15:10:14 -0400
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Can anyone tell me of any seed (or gardening) companies that specialize
in ornamental grasses. I am looking to buy cuttings  (or seeds) for
blue fescue, maiden, purple fountain and pampas grasses. Also yellow
groove and siberian bamboo. Anywhere in Canada or the U.S. will do. 


From bgreen1229@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:02 EST 1995
Article: 55358 of rec.gardens
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From: bgreen1229@aol.com (BGreen1229)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: use of dormant spray on plum trees in AZ
Date: 19 Feb 1995 16:53:36 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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thanks alot for your advice. do you have any tips at all about growing
okra in the    tuscon/low desert area?                                    
                                              bert.











From tigibson@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:03 EST 1995
Article: 55359 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Nasturiums
Date: 19 Feb 1995 17:02:06 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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i am totally in love with these plants. i've only grown the climbing ones,
but this year i ordered two other kinds of seeds (peaches and cream being
one of them.)
my only problem is leaf miners (these pests like my columbine leaves too.)
last year i planted them around my deck. two vines went under my porch &
up through the slats right next to my back door! my deck was nasturtum
heaven.
i love their blooms (try the bright orange ones with blue forget-me-nots).
but the leaves themselves are the most attractive foliage i've ever grown.
tigibson


From am185@lafn.org Mon Mar  6 10:37:05 EST 1995
Article: 55360 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcomsv!netcomsv!lafn.org!lafn.org!am185
From: am185@lafn.org (Ronald Nicholas)
Subject: gophers as in 4-legged
Message-ID: <1995Feb14.191100.18816@lafn.org>
Sender: news@lafn.org
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Reply-To: am185@lafn.org (Ronald Nicholas)
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Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 19:11:00 GMT
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Help!  Have tried traps, poison pellets, gopher plants and cursing. they 
still love us.  Does anything work?


From rostriker@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:06 EST 1995
Article: 55361 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: rostriker@aol.com (ROstriker)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: RE: Garden catalogs
Date: 19 Feb 1995 21:29:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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I have had good experiences with :
Raintree Nursery/391 Butts Rd./Morton, WA  98356
Stark Bro's/PO Box 10/Louisiana MO   63353-0010

Also, I am planning to order from Van Bourgondien's and would like to know
anyone's experiences with them.  Any info is helpful--thanks.

Rebecca


From mstrbrewer@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:08 EST 1995
Article: 55362 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: mstrbrewer@aol.com (MstrBrewer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Growing Hops
Date: 19 Feb 1995 17:18:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Does anyone have experience growing hops for home brewing??  I like in
Washington, D.C. (which is Zone 7 I think) and need whatever help I can
get - I have a pretty good flower garden going but have never experimented
with hops before.  Any tips, beginners' assistance, etc. would be greatly
appreciated!  e-mail or newsgroup post is fine.  Thanks -  Irene


From gad2@cornell.edu Mon Mar  6 10:37:10 EST 1995
Article: 55363 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!NewsWatcher!user
From: gad2@cornell.edu (Gary A Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Growing Hops
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 21:49:45 -0500
Organization: Cornell University
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In article <3i8g48$8lk@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, mstrbrewer@aol.com
(MstrBrewer) wrote:

: Does anyone have experience growing hops for home brewing??  I like in
: Washington, D.C. (which is Zone 7 I think) and need whatever help I can
: get - I have a pretty good flower garden going but have never experimented
: with hops before.  Any tips, beginners' assistance, etc. would be greatly
: appreciated!  e-mail or newsgroup post is fine.  Thanks -  Irene

Once you get it started, look out!  Best to give it plenty of room, and
something to climb on.  Additionally, hops is very, very difficult to
remove if you decide you don't want it.  I spent the better part of the
past summer chopping out the shoots that kept coming up, even after
digging down several feet to remove the majority of the roots.
Other than that, you shouldn't have any trouble in zone 7....

best of luck,
gary
-- 
Gary A. Davis
gad2@cornell.edu
Floriculture and Ornamental Horticulture, Cornell University


From sandrap@dragon.achilles.net Mon Mar  6 10:37:11 EST 1995
Article: 55364 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!fonorola!achilles!dragon.achilles.net!not-for-mail
From: sandrap@dragon.achilles.net (Sandra Hoffman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
Date: 19 Feb 1995 17:01:50 -0500
Organization: Achilles Internet Limited, Nepean, ON
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <3i8f4e$c87@dragon.achilles.net>
References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <3hts8h$4ql@news.bu.edu> <792896969snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dragon.achilles.net
Status: O
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In article <792896969snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk>,
Gary Cooper <cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Sherry is also quite right to point out that these proposals do *not*
>come about due to excessive traffic - they come from three sorts of people:
>those who cannot be bothered to learn to use the software available
>to scan the posts, 

I use and know how to use a threaded reader.

>or whose servers expire after absurdly short periods,

I do not have a problem keeping up with the expiry times on my server.

>*or* those who are not, really, gardeners at all, but are just people 
>whose hobby is growing one type of plant. There *is* a difference. 

Hmm, I grow flowers and vegetables on a 50 by 50 rented plot, have
a small herb and ornamental garden around my townhouse, and have about 
twenty indoor plants. Do I qualify as a gardener, really?

I'm in favour of splitting the group to at least indoor, misc, and 
organic, and would prefer to see misc split to edible and ornamental. 
Then instead of spending 2/3 of my time deleting posts I am not 
interested in, I could go to the groups I am most interested in first and 
save the topics I am least interested in for the days when I have extra 
time. As it is at least half the time I find myself catching up the group 
without reading any of it. Because the thought of coming in and weeding 
through 50-100 posts I'm not interested in to get to the ten or twelve 
conversations I'm interested in is just too much. As a result I rarely get 
enough continuity to get involved in discussions.

This group is one of the few I find that having a threaded newsreader 
does not help with. So few of the topics actually develop into threads. 
Most of the time when I enter the group there are at most one or two 
threads that have more than two articles in.


sph

ps I am not in favour of the current proposal for a plant.* hierarchy 
currently under discussion in news.groups.

-- 
sandrap@dragon.achilles.net


From kc@tiac.net Mon Mar  6 10:37:13 EST 1995
Article: 55365 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!kc.tiac.net!user
From: kc@tiac.net (Kevin Crader)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Horticulture database
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 22:45:40 -0500
Organization: The Internet Access Company
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Message-ID: <kc-1902952245400001@kc.tiac.net>
References: <3hrv20$hpg@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3i68a1$pt2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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In article <3i68a1$pt2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, philseib@aol.com (PhilSeib)
wrote:

> Garden Database...  I have begun something similar - but using Filemaker
> Pro (MAC, but runs on MAC-Wannabees as well).  Tedious and time
> consuming...  I can appreciate anyone who has accomplished this before and
> would also be quite willing to  buy one when found...

Have you tried 'PlantBase 1.5'? It's a FileMakerPro database of over 1,000
plants (mostly woodies, vines, etc.) that I downloaded about a year ago
from your very own AOL FileMaker area. I liked it so I bought the full
version, and now that I tweaked it to suit my needs I love it! Simple
design, works well. Try the keyword "FILEMAKER" at AOL

I don't know if the folks who wrote it are still around - -they haven't
responded to recent email but they are:

Intuitive Workings
IntuitWork@AOL.com
303-973-2837

I'd send you the demo but I trashed it long ago. Along with AOL (not that
there's anything wrong with AOL). Nothing's the same after you've drunk
from the Net with a SLIP/PPP firehose...

Kevin


From nmclaug@cello.gina.calstate.edu Mon Mar  6 10:37:14 EST 1995
Article: 55366 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!cello.gina.calstate.edu!usenet
From: Neil McLaughlin <nmclaug@cello.gina.calstate.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Garden Design Program Wanted
Date: 20 Feb 1995 03:39:50 GMT
Organization: English Teacher
Lines: 4
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3i92u6$eiq@cello.gina.calstate.edu>
References: <3i44fi$kpq@cello.gina.calstate.edu>
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Is there any place on the net, that I can download the program? What are
the pro's and con's of the program, too? I'm new at this so please
forgive my ignorance.
Samantha McLaughlin


From lcp7a@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU Mon Mar  6 10:37:15 EST 1995
Article: 55367 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU!lcp7a
From: lcp7a@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Louise C. Putnam-Stoner)
Subject: Heather info needed, Zone 6
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: faraday.clas.virginia.edu
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Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
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I would like to grow heather (erica or calluna) here in
Charlottesville, VA (central VA).  Summers are hot (usually
90's for several weeks) and humid in the early summer, then dry
in August. Microclimate may be a bit warmer than average Zone
6-- I am thinking of a South-facing U-shaped area surrounded on
3 sides by my house.  Soil here is acidic, which I gather is
good.  Deer a problem although they might not want to come into
this u-shaped area (wishful thinking)... any comments on
whether deer like heather would be appreciated.

My goal is a sort of memorial garden to a Scottish woman who
was a second mother to me... nothing morbid, rather a
celebration of something she held dear.  Any info would be
appreciated-- even direction to a different newsgroup if I am
in the wrong place.  I'm a novice 'netter.   

Thanks in advance.


From afthrs!channing.prothro@afthrs.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:18 EST 1995
Article: 55368 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!eff!blanket.mitre.org!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!afthrs!channing.prothro
From: afthrs!channing.prothro@afthrs.com (CHANNING PROTHRO)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: GARDEN TOOL SUPPLIERS
Message-ID: <8A3950D.00DA00180A.uuout@afthrs.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 21:33:00 -600
Distribution: world
Organization: After Hours BBS - 214-495-8487 | 24 Lines & 30 GIGS On-Line
Reply-To: afthrs!channing.prothro@afthrs.com (CHANNING PROTHRO)
References: <8A314CF.00DA0017D6.uuout@afthrs.com>
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LM>My husband and I were thinking of ordering some tools/supplies from the
LM>A.M Leonard, Inc catalog.  We were impressed by the selection and the
LM>prices seem good.  Does anyone have any experience ordering from them? 
LM>Thanks in advance for any information!

I've dealt with them for a number of years. You can't go wrong with them. The
tools are all top knotch, and made for real gardeners. :) Good luck

Channing
---
 * MR/2 2.0 NR * 


From tme9u@galen.med.Virginia.EDU Mon Mar  6 10:37:19 EST 1995
Article: 55369 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!galen.med.Virginia.EDU!tme9u
From: tme9u@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (teresa m. esch)
Subject: Re: test message!! do not read!
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: galen.med.virginia.edu
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I didn't read it until I saw it had a couple of responses and
figured there must be something more to it!

t
--
 


From bgoogle@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:20 EST 1995
Article: 55370 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: bgoogle@aol.com (B GOOGLE)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Martha Stewart
Date: 19 Feb 1995 19:01:29 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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I too have resisted responding to all this Martha Stewart stuff, but can't
resist.  I like to watch her occasionally because, in a perfect world, I
would have that $$, all those ideas, and be able to garden flawlessly in
white slacks.  Since I can't, it alternates between being interesting and
being a hoot!


From jgtusciu@mtu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:37:21 EST 1995
Article: 55371 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp.et.byu.edu!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msunews!news.mtu.edu!news.mtu.edu!not-for-mail
From: jgtusciu@mtu.edu (John Tusciuk)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: POISON OAK
Date: 19 Feb 1995 18:55:09 -0500
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3i8lot$nc@werner.cs.mtu.edu>
References: <3hjlrf$8ac@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3hltjj$gss@news1.databank.com> <3hqos9$76j@gazoo.sdd.comsat.com> <sbegley.44.2F4642BD@voicenet.com>
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Steven M. Begley (sbegley@voicenet.com) wrote:

[snip]

: I answered someone a few weeks ago about Poison Ivy. Poison Oak is not native 
: to this area, however, if memory serves, Poison Ivy is Toxidendron toxifolia, 
: and Poison Oak is Toxidendron quecifolia. (People in the discussion about 
: botanical names, take note: Toxideldron (self explanatory)  quercus (Oak) 
: folia (leafed)

[snip]

I recall reading that poison ivy and poison oak are one and the same,
but take different growth habits depending on habitat.  The evidence
was that cuttings taken from a poison ivy plant produced BOTH poison
ivy and poison oak depending on the environment the cuttings were
grown in.

John Tusciuk
jgtusciu@cs.mtu.edu


From mfrost@primenet.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:23 EST 1995
Article: 55372 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!gmi!msunews!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip048.lax.primenet.com!mfrost
From: mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Martha Stewart
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:29:43 PST
Organization: Primenet
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Message-ID: <mfrost.288.0058CEA8@primenet.com>
References: <3i0kra$917@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>
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In article <3i0kra$917@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca> bdoucett@uoguelph.ca (Bruce L Doucette) writes:
>From: bdoucett@uoguelph.ca (Bruce L Doucette)
>Subject: Martha Stewart
>Date: 16 Feb 1995 22:50:18 GMT

>Long Live Martha.....

>Its a Good Thing
What I especially like about her is that her name is now a household word. I 
grew up in an age of "Marsha, Margaret, Mary". Such an old-fashioned name, 
people would say, blinking at me as though some other name was forthcoming. 
Yeah, I think it's a Good Thing, too. 
Regards, Martha
mfrost@primenet.com


From wjones@halcyon.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:24 EST 1995
Article: 55373 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!news1.halcyon.com!chinook!wjones
From: wjones@chinook.halcyon.com (Warren Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Cotyledon ladismithensis
Date: 20 Feb 1995 03:58:14 GMT
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3i940m$sse@news1.halcyon.com>
Reply-To: wjones@halcyon.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com
Summary: Seeking advice on care and feeding of Cotyledon ladismithensis
Keywords: Cotyledon ladismithensis
Status: O
X-Status: 


I have a Cotyledeon ladismithenis growing in a south window.
It's about 12" (30cm) tall, with woody stems.  Last year it
produced some small cream colored flowers, much to my pleasure
and surprise, but lately it's been in a bit of a decline --
not dying perhaps, but looking wan and dropping leaves.

Have you grown this plant, or similar succulents?  I'd be
grateful for any advice.  Or if not advice, maybe just anecdotes
or reminiscenses ...  (The common name slips my mind, but
I think it has "paws" in it, which is what the succulent
leaves look like.)

--
Warren Jones         | To keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution
Seattle, Washington  | of intelligent tinkering.           -- Aldo Leopold


From Moira_Carlson@mindlink.bc.ca Mon Mar  6 10:37:25 EST 1995
Article: 55374 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!news.mindlink.net!mindlink.bc.ca!a8331
From: Moira_Carlson@mindlink.bc.ca (Moira Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Using Epsom salts in in plant soil?
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 16:37:06 -0800
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
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Distribution: world
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mindlink.net
Status: O
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In article <robinson.793067405@ichips.intel.com>, robinson@ichips.intel.com
(David Lyle Robinson) writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <robinson.793067405@ichips.intel.com>
> Posted: 18 Feb 95 00:30:05 GMT
>
> Org.  : Intel Corporation
>
> I recently looked at a booklett written by Jerry Baker
> that suggests using epsom salts as a spring soil preparation.
> It even suggests using it in potting soil for starting
> transplants.  In other places, the booklett suggests using
> dish soap and instant tea as a fertilizer.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this, and if so what is in
> these that makes it work?  Sounds like a bunch of
> unfounded hocus-pocus claims to me, but I'm open
> to learning new tricks.
>
> Thanks,
> David Robinson
>


I have no idea about the instant tea and soap, but I can tell you about the
Epsom Salts.  Epsom Salts is magnesium sulphate.  I imagine it depends on
where you live, but our soils here on the wet coast (due to heavy rainfall)
are almost always deficient in this.

It is used by a lot of the Rose Society folk - 1/4 cup per rose in the
spring.  For potted plants mix 1 tablespoon per gallon of water.

Cheers,
Moira


From bgoogle@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:26 EST 1995
Article: 55375 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: bgoogle@aol.com (B GOOGLE)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
Date: 19 Feb 1995 19:06:19 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3i8mdr$a91@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3i8f4e$c87@dragon.achilles.net>
Reply-To: bgoogle@aol.com (B GOOGLE)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

As long as the categories are such that all interests can be accomodated
and I can still continue to read and respond to what I want to, I don't
really care.  I don't know if I'm missing something,  but it seems to me
that I can still have the variety by subscribing to all the resultant
newsgroups.  Is this correct?


From bgoogle@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:28 EST 1995
Article: 55376 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!hookup!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: bgoogle@aol.com (B GOOGLE)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Nasturiums
Date: 19 Feb 1995 19:13:34 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: bgoogle@aol.com (B GOOGLE)
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Aphids, Huh?  Boy, I guess I've been lucky.  Never had them in all these
years.  Keeping fingers crossed


From nancyr@cc.usu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:37:29 EST 1995
Article: 55377 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!nancyr
From: nancyr@cc.usu.edu (Nancy Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Blue Gramma Grass seedheads???
Message-ID: <1995Feb19.215142.42251@cc.usu.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 95 21:51:42 MDT
Organization: USU Computer Services, Academic Services Office
Lines: 19
Status: O
X-Status: 

The local extensions agents are suggesting (among others) blue
gramma grass as a good alternative to kentucky bluegrass, for 
both it's wear-ability and drought tolerance.  I've been
considering putting it in at least one area--my dog's run.
I'm a bit concerned about the seedheads, though.  The books
i've read say they are "1/2 inch curved" rather pretty...
I need to know if they're hard and sharp, or soft and
feathery. I'm concerned that if I let the grass get long
enough (12"???) to go to seed, and the seeds are hard/sharp,
I'll have dogs with seeds stuck in their sinuses or in between
the pads of their paws.  Has anyone ever seen/felt these seed 
heads?  Can you describe them for me? (nb I realize that I 
could just keep the stuff mowed and not worry about it, but
the chances of that happening with all the other stuff to
worry about around the yard are kindof slim.)

nancy
Logan, UT Zone 4
nancyr@cc.usu.edu


From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:31 EST 1995
Article: 55378 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!news.hawaii.edu!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
Message-ID: <destryD49u0p.6ou@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
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References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <3hts8h$4ql@news.bu.edu> <792896969snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <destryD44Jtx.FAK@netcom.com> <3i30ch$ip1@news.bu.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 23:46:01 GMT
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Sherry Bailey (slbailey@bu.edu) wrote:
: Fellwalker (destry@netcom.com) wrote:

: :    You don't call up to 350 posts every other day excessive traffic?! 
: : Firstly, I use a threaded newsreader and I _do_ know how to use it...it 
: : still took me 3 hours to get through this newsgroup when I was away for 2 
: : days. Suggestions to scan over posts with a threaded newsreader don't 
: : apply for people who _are_ interested in reading a wide variety of topics 
...snip..
: I THINK we are all reading the same newsgroup here.  I don't find 350 posts
: every other day... and after a while, you don't read everything because so
: much is repeated every few weeks that you have already learned it or are no
: longer interested.  Having several small groups will only compound the

   After being offline for 22 hours...friday night to Sunday 
morning....there were 310 _threads_ with new postings, some multiple, in 
rec.gardens. That means there were more than 310 new posts in the past 22 
hours, and while there's always a spurt in new posts on Saturdays, I there 
will usually be a couple hundred new posts in that amount of time.

: problem.  (I don't know why you keep challenging the knowledge of the people
: who have watched this phenemenon in other split-up newsgroups -- do you think
: we are LYING when we predict trouble? I've been on thenet for seven years now,
: and I know of some people who were here before I was -- we KNOW whereof we speak!)

    My knowledge and observations are as different from yours as yours 
are to the next guys. The amount of time you've spent on the 'Net doesn't 
guarantee your expertise or make you capable of forseeing the future. I 
am not a 'Newbie' and refuse to have _my_ opinions written off on the 
basis that I may not have been around as long as you have. If I didn't 
care to hear your opinions I never would have asked to hear them (in my 
posts querying about reorganization). 

: Yep, you definitely have the right to SUGGEST a reorganization -- just as the
: rest of us have the right to streuously oppose it.  I'm sorry people lose

    Go ahead...oppose whatever ideas you are against. I just despise 
rebuttals to a persons proposal (such as Mr.Sexton's) that take the form 
of a personal attack on whoever's proposing the idea, instead of being 
directed against the idea itself.

   What was left out of your post (which I'm replying to now) is that I 
_was not replying to YOUR post_ The comments of mine that you used, 
supposedly in answer to you, were from a response to a post by Gary 
(Cooper?). You edited it down to look as though I was responding 
specifically to you, when I was actually responding to his post (which 
was a followup to yours)

    In that post it was implied that everyone who tries to reorganize 
re.gardens is either lazy, doesn't know how to use their newsreader, or 
isn't a "real" gardener.
: :   I don't know what you're trying to get at with your last
: : statement...that people who want a plant specific newsgroup should just 
: : read rec.gardens? What? People in rec.gardens.roses may grow only one 
: : type of plant, does that mean they aren't really gardeners? Or that they 
: : shouldn't have a specific rose newsgroup?

: I don't know what "my last statement" was, but from your remarks here, I
: assume you are referring to my opinion that there should be VERY few

    Probably because I wasn't responding to your post. If you hadn't 
edited out Mr. Coopers post, you would have clearly seen I was 
responding to HIS last statement.

: :    While I don't agree with his 'plant' hierarchy idea, please realize 
: : there are more than a few people who _would_ like to see some sort of 
: : reorganization....and their views are just as valid as yours. It is 
: : unfair to arbitrarily lump them into groups and dismiss them.

: I disagree.  Everybody has the right to state their opinion, but I don't
: accept that every idea is equally valid.  Some ideas stink!  MY OPINION is

   I didn't say that every idea is equally valid. I said that everyones 
views are equally valid. Yes, to me, the rec.plants idea stinks, but Mr. 
Sexton's view (belief, opinion, whatever) that there should be a 
rec.plants hierarchy is just as valid as my opinion that there shouldn't.


: And once more I want to comment to other newbies -- I think you ought to pay
: special attention to those of us who have been here a long time -- we have
: seen irrevocable mistakes made in other newsgroups, and we KNOW WHAT WILL
: HAPPEN! This experiment has been done before.  If we split IT WILL GET WORSE.

     Get off your "newbie" kick. There are other ways to express your 
opinion without trying to demean others. I am not a newbie, but I still 
resent a "holier than thou" attitude when it's thrown in my face. 
    I am perfectly capable of listening to your opinions and information 
based on the fact that you are an individual with an opinion...I don't 
write off the opinions of people on the basis that they're "Newbies", or 
may not have as much Usenet experience as I do.

    Again, I was not able to reply to much of your post because you 
edited out Mr Coopers post (that I had responded to). Without that, my 
comments didn't make sense.

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:32 EST 1995
Article: 55379 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
Message-ID: <destryD49wDE.Lxw@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <3hts8h$4ql@news.bu.edu> <792896969snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <destryD44Jtx.FAK@netcom.com> <793053149snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 00:36:50 GMT
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Sender: destry@netcom15.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Gary Cooper (Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <destryD44Jtx.FAK@netcom.com> destry@netcom.com "Fellwalker" writes:

: <much deleted to save bandwidth>

: >    You don't call up to 350 posts every other day excessive traffic?! 
: > Firstly, I use a threaded newsreader and I _do_ know how to use it...it 
: > still took me 3 hours to get through this newsgroup when I was away for 2 
...snip

: Actually, no I don't. Living in England *many* of the posts to
: this group are completely irrelevant to me, and scanning past those
: threads takes fractions of a second. 350 posts really doesn't seem
: like a great number to me - unless one is attempting to read, and maybe
: even respond, to nearly all of them. Quite why it took you three
: hours to get through two days posts I can't imagine. 

     Many people _don't_ scan over most of the posts, because they don't 
find them irrelevant. For those people, subdividing rec.gardens would 
make it easier to scan through groups of related subjects, instead of 
scanning through one great pile of everything. It takes me three hours to 
get through posts because I have to sort and read and sort and read....

: But, if you, too, are a generalist, interested in reading about 
: everything, how will fragmentation help? You'll still want to read all 
: these posts - and splitting will simply increase the number of them as 
: newbies inevitably use a shotgun approach with their questions.

     If I'm looking for info about vegetable gardening (for example) it 
would probably be quicker to find it in rec.gardens.misc.edible or 
whatever, instead of scanning through floweres, trees, pt lumber,etc. If 
I'm just scanning for interesting subjects, it would be quicker scanning 
through a group of more closely related subjects than a very general group.
   (example, would you think that "comp.sys" should be the only comp.sys 
group with no further division? Or rec.sports?)
    Newbies are only ignorant, _not_ stupid. They learn by their mistakes 
and stop making them. rec.gardens.roses and rec.gardens.orchids have 
hardly gone down under a barrage of cross posts.

: >    Secondly, are you suggesting that for the people who's sites don't 
: > hold posts very long, they're just outta luck? That they don't have the 
: > right to suggest a reorganization because it would better enable them to 
: > take part in gardening newsgroups?

: In a word: yes. The net isn't going to get *smaller* and it isn't going
: to get easier for underfunded or lazy site operators to handle. 
: Inevitably, all suppliers are going to have to upgrade their equipment
: and service levels. This isn't an *option*, it is being forced on all
: of us as we try to keep up while the whole system grows at a rate no 
: one can control.

: Would you rather that the development of the net was held back, or forced 
: into contortions, on account of those sites who were unable or unwilling 
: to improve their facilities? In the case of expiry times we aren't
: talking about a great deal more than larger storage facilities, which
: are far from the most expensive items going to be required over the
: next few years. How far would you propose going to accomodate sites
: with limited facilities? 

    rec.gardens reorganization would hold back the development of the 
'Net? How many new newsgroups were you given a choice of when you signed 
on today? (I had about 10 or so.)
  
...snip...
: >    While I don't agree with his 'plant' hierarchy idea, please realize 
: > there are more than a few people who _would_ like to see some sort of 
: > reorganization....and their views are just as valid as yours. It is 
: > unfair to arbitrarily lump them into groups and dismiss them.

: Breaking objections down into component elements is a good way of finding
: whether there are valid points being made. No one has challenged the
: points raised by Sherry, Kay Klier, myself and others as to
: *why* these proposals have been made - they have simply expanded on
: them - which is fine and shows that the reduction has served its
: purpose. It's hardly 'lumping them into groups' - it's an attempt at
: analysis on the hoof :-). From there, those points have been disagreed 
: with, not "dismissed".

     My reference to 'lumping into groups' was because of your statements 
about what sort of people want to reorganize rec.gardens, breaking down 
into something like, People who are too lazy to scan, people who don't 
know how to use their newsreaders (to scan), and 'non-gardeners'. I am 
not lazy, or I wouldn't be putting the work into the rec.gardens proposal 
that I have. I know darn well how to use my (threaded) newsreader, and I 
am most certainly a gardener. 
    Whatever Mr. Sexton's reasons are behind his rec.plants proposal, it 
is unfair to him, and to anyone else putting forward any proposal, to 
dismiss him on those grounds, instead of by disagreement with the proposal 
itself. 

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From lynx@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz Mon Mar  6 10:37:34 EST 1995
Article: 55380 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!gcs.co.nz!amigans!surrey.wanganui.gen.nz!lynx
From: lynx@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz (Lynsey Gedye)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: REQUEST: indoor vines?
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <lynx.04wk@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz>
References:  <2a6_9502170603@nisc.fidonet.org>
Date: 20 Feb 95 22:30:58 GMT-12
Organization: Prime Line, Wanganui, New Zealand
Lines: 23
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <2a6_9502170603@nisc.fidonet.org> Doug.Vogt@f638.n2605.z1.fidonet.org (Doug Vogt) writes:
>In a msg on <Feb 10 13:32>, afsan@io.org of 1:1/31 writes:
> a> Hello!  Could anyone suggest a vine/hanging plant for my office?  

>Hoya purpurea, though not strictly a vine, sends out long cames that will
>curl around just about anything and has strongly scented purple and white
>flowers. Sorry I can't find a printed reference to this species. 
>H. bella is more common and makes a nice, smaller hanging plant. Mine
>hangs down about 2 feet below the top of the pot. H. Purpurea will hang
>down four feet or more but they can be trained up toward the ceiling. 

  Hoya bella make great hanger palnts, 'specially if you can take
  time out to lay back and ogle the squadrens of flowers.  I'd be a bit
  careful of the hoya vines tho', not because the aren't fabulous,
  but because some tend to dribble nectar out of the flowers.

  Fancy nice sticky nectar on your antique bokhara?  

  Well, on the other hand, mature sized, quality flowering hoyas are 
  hard to find, antique persian carpets can be found in any corner store.

--
lynx@wanganui.gen.nz


From lynx@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz Mon Mar  6 10:37:35 EST 1995
Article: 55381 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!gcs.co.nz!amigans!surrey.wanganui.gen.nz!lynx
From: lynx@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz (Lynsey Gedye)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Is there a tissue culture expert in the house?
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <lynx.04wm@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz>
Date: 20 Feb 95 22:45:21 GMT-12
Organization: Prime Line, Wanganui, New Zealand
Lines: 13
Status: O
X-Status: 

  Just back from crushing an african violet under the heel
  of my sabot...

  Pray tell, gentle netoids, is it true that tissue culture
  of plants can be carried out at the kitchen table using care,
  simple, household chemicals and a certain amount of expertise;
  or is it strictly for mega-sterile lab conditions filled with
  white-coated genius types who've never actually seen dirt?

  Please, share your experience.

--
lynx@wanganui.gen.nz


From 76533.757@CompuServe.COM Mon Mar  6 10:37:36 EST 1995
Article: 55382 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Roz Garland <76533.757@CompuServe.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Hot Pepper Plant Problems.
Date: 17 Feb 1995 05:25:45 GMT
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3i1c0p$s1e$1@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>
References: <3hvp3p$ol4@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>
Status: O
X-Status: 

In this area (zone 7b in north Texas) , peppers grow much better 
in warmer temperatures (like 85 and above).  They do need water, 
of course, but drainage is important because they will not do 
well when their "feet" stay wet.  I grow mine on raised beds, and 
have more jalapenos than we can pickle!  Good luck!
Roz


From heverlyj@ccnet.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:38 EST 1995
Article: 55383 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!gmi!msunews!uwm.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!ccnet.com!ccnet.com!not-for-mail
From: heverlyj@ccnet.com (Jerry Heverly)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Poor Soil
Date: 16 Feb 1995 21:23:57 -0800
Organization: CCnet Communications (510-988-7140 guest)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3i1btd$87j@ccnet3.ccnet.com>
References: <3hug87$brv@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ccnet3
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jeck1 (jeck1@aol.com) wrote:
: I just moved to this house last year and my garden was pathetic. The spot
: I choose for a garden had lots of sand, was acidic, and little topsoil.
: I've been saving compost, but the garden's big and my compost will take a
: long time to catch up. The surrounding trees have lots of Oaks, so it
: contributes to the acid.
: I am contemplating hauling in some horse manue, but I've always dreaded
: that because of the weeds. I usually try to stay as much organic as
: possible, but we wasted a lot of time last year with this soil. I've heard
: that composting the manue can kill the seeds but have never tried it. Any
: Ideas?
If your pile is hot(generally at least one cubic yard in size with a good 
C:N ratio) you'll kill your weed seeds.
Jerry Heverly, Instr. of hort, Diablo Valley College, Pleasant Hill, CA
-- 


Jerry Heverly, Oakland, CA


From kpayne@interserv.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:39 EST 1995
Article: 55384 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.interserv.net!usenet
From: kpayne@interserv.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need Advice on Incense Cedar
Date: 20 Feb 1995 06:09:26 GMT
Organization: NovX InterServ News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <3i9bmm$3pu@data.interserv.net>
References: <bebrjec.35.2F4259F6@bebr.bus.utah.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.121.2.208
X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)
Status: O
X-Status: 

>   bebrjec@bebr.bus.utah.edu (Jan Cripsin-Little) writes:
>  Has anyone had experience with growing Libocedrus (Red or Incense Cedar).  I 
>  am looking for a columnar tree for a small (44 x 66) yard and I like the 
>  green pencil shape of the incense cedar.  On drawback -- all the literature 
>  I can find indicates it can grow to 150 feet.  
>  
>>>>
We have a beautiful red cedar in our backyard at the end of the lot.
It's magnificent and majestic and NOT PRUNED!  Please don't plant one
of these giants only to "whack" off its top.  If you appreciate their beauty
you will never be satisfied with the result of distorting the scale and
proportion by pruning.  Instead plant something that won't grow as tall
but has the same columnar shape you're looking for.  Weeping Alaska cedars 
and Atlas cedars are some examples.  There are many, many others that when
at full height will give you the splendor and scale you want without the
disfiguration.

 
Kathryn Payne
kpayne@interserv.com




From Jan_Forbes@gbrmpa.gov.au Mon Mar  6 10:37:41 EST 1995
Article: 55385 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!rahul.net!a2i!news.clark.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!marlin.jcu.edu.au!mac36.macnet1.gbrmpa.gov.au!Jan_Forbes
From: Jan Forbes <Jan_Forbes@gbrmpa.gov.au>
Subject: Re: REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Message-ID: <1995Feb20.015345.7456@marlin.jcu.edu.au>
X-Xxmessage-Id: <AB6E339CD8030224@mac36.macnet1.gbrmpa.gov.au>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 20 Feb 95 11:55:08 GMT
Sender: news@marlin.jcu.edu.au (USENET News System)
Organization: Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority
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References: <61982.jware@cdpa.state.ms.us>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 01:53:45 GMT
Lines: 11
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <61982.jware@cdpa.state.ms.us> James Ware,
jware@cdpa.state.ms.us writes:
>Cyberspace is unlimited. They (Australians, israelis, etc) can grow
their own.

How exceeedingly selfish - I hope, if you have any non-endemic plants in
your garden, that they become magically motile and return to their
countries of origin, and that your own native plants would be too ashamed
to grow in the places they've  deserted. I guess racial biggots don't
grow exotic plants though - they probably begrudge them the soil, water
and nutrients! What ever happenned to the 'global village'?


From kidkaos@uslink.net Mon Mar  6 10:37:43 EST 1995
Article: 55386 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!mr.net!newshost.uslink.net!pp5
From: kidkaos@uslink.net (pete hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Jewelweed
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 18:28:05 GMT
Organization: US Link Communications
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Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3i9hbf$bqq@newshost.uslink.net>
References: <3h6kk4$f4p@morrow.stanford.edu> <1995Feb8.141805.5384@leo.vsla.edu> <D46FML.pCE@ns1.nodak.edu> <3i75ru$2vb@news.sas.ab.ca>
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thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () wrote:
>David R Givers (givers@badlands.NoDak.edu) wrote:
>: Bess Haile (bhaile@leo.vsla.edu) wrote:
>: : I have a lot of jewelweeds growing in my marsh and along the
>: : streams.  Last year I collected some for soneone on the net.
>: :  I will
>: : gather seeds for anyone interested in me sending them
>

>I would agree with this comment for any invasive type of plant such as
>purple loosestrife.  But jewelweed is a rather mundane plant, not
>invasive, and it grows well with other wetland species, doesn't choke
>them out.  So I doubt that offering jewelweed seeds is going to have any
>impact on any environment whatsoever.
>
>Don

  Native Americans used jewelweed to cure poison Ivy.  My husband used it and it worked fair (for mild
poison ivy)  also when I was a kid if we got into nettles we would use jewel weed to kill the pain.  Only
 works if you use it right away though.   It's a neat plant, and in the late summer it's fun to play with the
pods, the seeds ejest if you touch the pod!!!
                                                             Kay Hanson


From aford@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:47 EST 1995
Article: 55387 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: aford@ix.netcom.com (Anita Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Ground cover for ditch banks?
Date: 20 Feb 1995 12:55:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3ia3gd$ese@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
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In <D47HD4.Mvn@ns1.nodak.edu> givers@badlands.NoDak.edu (David R Givers) 
writes: 

>
>Christine Owens (cowens@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: Have you considered concocting a mix of local, low-growing
>: wild-flowers?
>
>: Chris Owens
>
>: >
>: >There is a drainage ditch that runs along side the road in front of 
my
>house : >and I would like to put some type of ground cover on it's
>edges/banks.  
>: >John Kuhn
>
>John-there is probably not a quick fix but there are good solutions.  
>Christine Owens(above) has pointed you in the right direction.  Native 
>species can do the job if carefully selected and properly planted.  
>
>But -- this is going to take some effort on your part to learn your 
local 
>prairie ecotype.  I would suggest for your application not to concoct 
until 
>you have read some books.  For a quick start send $3 to Prairie Nursery 
>PO bOx 306 Westfield WI 53946.  They will send their catalog which
>will help you get started learning.  No one I knowm owns it or works 
there; 
>standard discalimer applies.
>
>I would stay away from the wildflower idea as wildflowers.  The base 
for 
>solving your problem is in selecting the right grasses and adding some 
>flowers for color and diversity.  Your planting might have to be as 
much 
>as 90 percent grass, as a guess.
>
>DO the right thing and you will feel right; so will the earth.
>good luck
>David Givers
>
>

I'm dealing with the same problem.  I moved into a new house in May '94 
and got the bank in the bargin.  I put lots of different things on the 
bank to see what would live with very little effort.  So far I'm pleased 
with the following:

sedum (different varieties), St. John's Wort, heather, vincia, mint, 
hens & chicks, barberry bushes.  

In an effort to help establish some of the plants, I places old bricks 
and rocks in the bank.

I'm considering the pros/cons of crown vetch and am planning to add 
creeping tyme.

Most of my bank is in full sun.  I live in Manassas, VA

Happy planting

Anita


From topsoil@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:48 EST 1995
Article: 55388 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: topsoil@aol.com (Topsoil)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How do I "grow" (raise?) worms?
Date: 20 Feb 1995 01:53:41 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Howdy  :)

Raising redworms is a breeze.  I have them growing and breeding in my
classroom at school, and even in two small bins I keep on a dresser in my
bedroom!  Of course, they are very easy to raise in outdoor piles during
mild seasons, or year-round in mild climates.

Basically, you just need appropriate bedding (moist medium in which they
can live) and food.  My suggestion is to get a copy of "Worms Eat My
Garbage" by Mary Appelhof.  This is the simplest intro to how to do worm
composting -- and getting worms as a side benefit if you are interested in
that.  The book is available for about $10 from Flower Press, 10322 Shaver
Road, Kalamazoo, MI  49002.

Once you get one batch of worms (from a friend or bought through the
mail), there is no need to ever get more.  Under ideal growing conditions,
they can double their numbers in about a month!

I am beginning a project to teach local school children about composting
with worms as a way of recycling and reducing the waste stream.  If I can
be of any further assistance, please send email.

--  Eric Johnson
Boulder, Colorado


From miriam@trystero.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:50 EST 1995
Article: 55389 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!uchinews!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!usenet
From: miriam@trystero.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
Date: 20 Feb 1995 06:05:43 GMT
Organization: The Internet Access Company
Lines: 112
Message-ID: <3i9bfn$ap5@sundog.tiac.net>
References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <3hts8h$4ql@news.bu.edu> <792896969snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <destryD44Jtx.FAK@netcom.com> <793053149snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <destryD49wDE.Lxw@netcom.com>
Reply-To: miriam@trystero.com
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In <destryD49wDE.Lxw@netcom.com>, destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker) writes:
|Gary Cooper (Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk) wrote:
|: In article <destryD44Jtx.FAK@netcom.com| destry@netcom.com "Fellwalker" writes:
|
|: <much deleted to save bandwidth>
|
|: |    You don't call up to 350 posts every other day excessive traffic?! 
|: | Firstly, I use a threaded newsreader and I _do_ know how to use it...it 
|: | still took me 3 hours to get through this newsgroup when I was away for 2 
|....snip
|
|: Actually, no I don't. Living in England *many* of the posts to
|: this group are completely irrelevant to me, and scanning past those
|: threads takes fractions of a second. 350 posts really doesn't seem
|: like a great number to me - unless one is attempting to read, and maybe
|: even respond, to nearly all of them. Quite why it took you three
|: hours to get through two days posts I can't imagine. 
|
|     Many people _don't_ scan over most of the posts, because they don't 
|find them irrelevant. For those people, subdividing rec.gardens would 
|make it easier to scan through groups of related subjects, instead of 
|scanning through one great pile of everything. It takes me three hours to 
|get through posts because I have to sort and read and sort and read....
|
|: But, if you, too, are a generalist, interested in reading about 
|: everything, how will fragmentation help? You'll still want to read all 
|: these posts - and splitting will simply increase the number of them as 
|: newbies inevitably use a shotgun approach with their questions.
|
|     If I'm looking for info about vegetable gardening (for example) it 
|would probably be quicker to find it in rec.gardens.misc.edible or 
|whatever, instead of scanning through floweres, trees, pt lumber,etc. If 
|I'm just scanning for interesting subjects, it would be quicker scanning 
|through a group of more closely related subjects than a very general group.
|   (example, would you think that "comp.sys" should be the only comp.sys 
|group with no further division? Or rec.sports?)

snip...


If only my newsfeed would not expire after two days, with the 
amount of traffic lately in his group, I could foresee finding 
over one thousand articles to read after being away two weeks.
But that still would not encourage me to support further topical 
division. I, too, find interest in reading all the varieties of 
discussion on gardening in one newsgroup. Often the advice found 
effects indoor and outdoor (flower or vegetation, etc.).
Rec.bonsai and Rec.orchids has worked well for specific interests
and may very well be example for a RFD for say, hydroponics.
As for my indoor, outdoor flower gardening and hedges, and 
vegetable gardening, I'd just as soon continue to spool up one 
general newsgroup.

I have a suggestion, which is not original, and has worked in
rec.aquaria since I have read UseNet. Prefacing the subject is a
marked "(F)"... for freshwater discussion; "(M)" for marine.

Why not try inserting a letter code here? Who should standardize
the code? I dunno. (%-) But I'll try some suggestions and
use the "K.I.S.S" method :

(B) Books, periodicals
(C) Catalogues
(D) Data (i.e. software, scientific)
(F) Fertilizers
(I) Indoor
(O) Outdoor
(P) Pests
(S) Soil
(V) Vegetables

Example for rec.gardening:
Subject line: (I) Geranium Propagation

A monthly message explaining the code may help users be reminded
to try this tagging method and trim down the Subject line usage 
of just an undefined "Help".

What do y'all think? This warm weather we are once again 
relishing in New England reminds me that I will have less time 
soon to spend reading news and will be spending more time outside
gardening. Bring on the Spring!!!

Regards,

---J
Janice Anne Follansbee           "One Hand Washes the Otter"
miriam@fathermoe.trystero.com
     |\      _,,,---,,_       
zzz. /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_. 
    |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-' 
   '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)    fL

 

------------------------- Note headers follow --------------------------
>From destry@netcom.com  Mon Feb 20 00:32:31 1995
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Regards,

---J
Janice Anne Follansbee           "One Hand Washes the Otter"
miriam@fathermoe.trystero.com



From 76533.757@CompuServe.COM Mon Mar  6 10:37:53 EST 1995
Article: 55390 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Roz Garland <76533.757@CompuServe.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pruning Crepe Myrtles
Date: 17 Feb 1995 05:45:20 GMT
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service
Lines: 17
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References: <19950215165804.Debbie.Detwiler@ddetwiler.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>
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Regarding the pruning and mildew problems of crepe myrtles:
   According to our local gardening guru (Dallas, Tx area----Neil 
Sperry and Howard Garrett) you really should not cut any limbs or 
branches that are bigger than a pencil.  But I have seen people 
do so with no harm to the crepe.
    I had two quite large cm's next to my house, and couldn't 
figure out why they got powdery mildew so badly----the leaves 
would turn white, then black, and no blooms.  So I asked the 
county extension agent.  Problem was that they were in the drip 
line of the house, and the place that they were planted did not 
provide enough air circulation for them.  So if their roots stay 
relatively wet, you probably will have a problem with powdery 
mildew.  I dug them up 2 weeks ago and transplanted them to a new 
location with good drainage.  I hope they SURVIVE!  Everyone 
assures me that they are very hardy and tough!
Good luck!
Roz Garland


From sberman@alumni.caltech.edu Mon Mar  6 10:37:54 EST 1995
Article: 55391 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!sberman
From: sberman@alumni.caltech.edu (Stan Berman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Martha Stewart
Date: 20 Feb 1995 01:17:21 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
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Regarding Martha Stewart: 

I am also one of those who can't stand her. She
paints a completely unrealistic picture of what
one person can do by not properly (and fairly)
acknowledging her collaborators and helpers. 

I found a really amusing spoof of the Martha
Stewart magazine at Borders the other day. Among
the designs included was a plan to completely re-
tile one's pool with found shards of glass and 
tile in patterns like Michelangelo's Sistine
Chapel. 

Very funny, though too expensive to buy at 10$

Bharathi Jagadeesh

(I can be more easily reached at bjag@nih.gov
than the reply address)


From spudnik1@bev.net Mon Mar  6 10:37:55 EST 1995
Article: 55392 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!insosf1.infonet.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet
From: spudnik1@bev.net (spudnik1)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Poor Soil
Date: 20 Feb 1995 08:49:43 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <3i9l37$p8u@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
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In article <3hug87$brv@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jeck1@aol.com (Jeck1) s
I also just moved to a new house and the soil is terrible. I've had the same problems you have. I saw an article in one of my magazines which pictured a beautiful yard that was filled with all sorts of perennials. The owner said that she had poor clay soi
l and just dug holes larger than required and filled them with potting soil. I don't know how well this will work, but I'm willing to try for lack of a tiller or compost as of yet.


From pepper@primenet.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:57 EST 1995
Article: 55393 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip037.phx.primenet.com!pepper
From: pepper@primenet.com (Tim Pepper)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Looking for landscape software/shareware/freeware
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 23:12:16 MST
Organization: Primenet
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 I am looking for a freeware or shareware program similar to 3D landscape. 
Does anyone know where I can download one? 


From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:58 EST 1995
Article: 55394 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!psgrain!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: Disaster: Novice plants seeds to save money...help !!
Message-ID: <destryD49wK9.M6J@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <3i0nra$gma@tilde.csc.ti.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 00:40:57 GMT
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Sender: destry@netcom15.netcom.com
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Lynnette (edrn@dlep1.itg.ti.com) wrote:
: I visited my local nursery in the throes of a thrifty mood, and bought 
: a bunch of flower seed packets. Last year, I spent about $40 on
: 6 packs of begonias alone !! This year, I was going to play it wise and 
: plan ahead. I bought three packs of Impatien seeds and planted them
: in organic potting soil, as suggested by the teenaged "garden" 
: manager...hmmm...Now, over a week later, no sprouts. Nothing. 
: The seeds were so small, I used tweezers to plant them. 

     I don't know what it said on the seed packet, but Impatiens can take 
10 to 14 days to germinate, longer if the temperature is cool. I planted 
some outdoors last Spring and they took 3 weeks to show.

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:37:59 EST 1995
Article: 55395 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!psgrain!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: Please don't flame me
Message-ID: <destryD49x65.92@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <3i2r3d$cmm@cobia.gulf.net> <LRFORTNEY-1702951601250001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu> <3i5l5o$egn@news.midland.co.nz>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 00:54:05 GMT
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Neil Mercer (smeagol@midland.co.nz) wrote:
: L. R. Fortney (LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu) wrote:
: : In article <3i2r3d$cmm@cobia.gulf.net>, macsusn@gulf.net (Shelley
: : Carpenter) wrote:
: : > 
: : > I'm fairly new to this group and have just been lurking, BUT, I have to 
: : > speak out on the reorganization.
: : > 
: : > For me, it would be easier if there were two groups, one for vegetable 
: : > gardens and one for flowers/shrubs etc.  
: : > 
: :    I agree completely, but the last time I tried to inject this bit of
: : reason it went nowhere.
: : Lloyd Fortney ---Opinions, just opinions---

: I also agree, even though I am primarily against splitting rec.gardens.  
: This just makes much more sense to me.  Maybe we should be considering a 
: split which would end up with larger groups than being currently 
: proposed, but seems more logical.  Comments?

     (Max here, from under reams of rec.gardens reorganization paperwork)

   I definately don't want to propose a whole slew of tiny groups in 
rec.gardens....that's why I was asking for opinions. I'm trying to put 
together a proposal that would subdivide what is currently rec.gardens 
(but still retain a rec.gardens.misc as a general group) into a small 
number of basic groups, such as rec.gardens.edible (to cover veggies, 
herbs, etc) and rec.gardens.ornamental (plants grown for flowers, 
foliage, etc)...but still allow for future growth as new groups come 
along or mailing lists become newsgroups. 
   There was one poster who suggested a good breakdown of how to set up a 
rec.gardens hierarchy to take into account future groups, and someone 
immediately took him out of context and posted that someone was proposing 
20-some groups....sheesh!

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From pattibelle@delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:01 EST 1995
Article: 55396 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Poison Oak-no laughing matter
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 02:05:23 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <xe0a8wz.pattibelle@delphi.com>
References: <mfrost.287.001E1704@primenet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1a.delphi.com
X-To: Martha Frost <mfrost@primenet.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 

My doctor told me that at the first sign of poison oak to take one
Procardia pill, poke it with a pin, then hold it under the tongue
until all the contents have leaked out and been absorbed.  It stops
the allergic action right NOW!  However, he was going to e-mail me
some literature on it which he hasn't done.  Meanwhile, I'm afraid
to go out in the yard cutting brush for fear that I'll contract
another bad case of poison oak like I had last fall.  My sympathy
to you, Martha, and if anyone else knows anything about using
Procardia, please either post here or e-mail me!
 
Pat in Napa, CA


From pattibelle@delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:02 EST 1995
Article: 55397 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: COMPOSTING SYSTEMSÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 02:13:18 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <x+1Ys82.pattibelle@delphi.com>
References: <36.9584.2599@granite.mn.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1a.delphi.com
X-To: Jim Mcnelly <jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org>
Status: O
X-Status: 

Before I bought something so expensive, I'm in process of trying a cheap
plastic garbage can which I had myhusband drill many, many holes in.
I filled it with leaves and stuff last fall, watered it down good, then
put the lid on for the winter.  Last time I looked the contents had gone
way down and there were pillbugs all over the place.  When the weather
warms up, I should have compost at the bottom.  If it works, I'm think-
ing of getting 2 more garbage cans, then forking the contents just like
I would with those expensive bins.  I got dark green for $5.99.  Good
luck composting, Diane!
 
Pat in Napa, CA


From pattibelle@delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:04 EST 1995
Article: 55398 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Deer in my garden!!
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 02:21:03 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
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X-To: Louise C. Putnam-Stoner <lcp7a@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU>
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I have tried everything I could think of to stop deer short of fencing
the entire back yard (they can have the front).  The ONLY thing that
has worked every time is egg, oil, detergent.  Beat one egg, add 1 tbsp.
each of cooking oil and detergent.  Add more water and pour into spray
bottle.  You have to keep spraying, especially after rain, but it does
work!
 
Pat in Napa, CA  (too manydeer)


From cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:38:05 EST 1995
Article: 55399 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk (Gary Cooper)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!wordshop.demon.co.uk!Cooper
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <3hts8h$4ql@news.bu.edu> <792896969snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <destryD44Jtx.FAK@netcom.com> <793053149snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <destryD49wDE.Lxw@netcom.com> <3i9bfn$ap5@sundog.tiac.net>
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In article <3i9bfn$ap5@sundog.tiac.net> miriam@trystero.com  writes:

<words deleted to save bandwidth>

> I have a suggestion, which is not original, and has worked in
> rec.aquaria since I have read UseNet. Prefacing the subject is a
> marked "(F)"... for freshwater discussion; "(M)" for marine.
> 
> Why not try inserting a letter code here? Who should standardize
> the code? I dunno. (%-) But I'll try some suggestions and
> use the "K.I.S.S" method :

<more deleted>

This isn't at all a bad idea, as far as I can see, but I fear 
that it's unlikely to catch on.

-- 
Gary Cooper


From cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:38:06 EST 1995
Article: 55400 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk (Gary Cooper)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!wordshop.demon.co.uk!Cooper
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <3hts8h$4ql@news.bu.edu> <792896969snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <destryD44Jtx.FAK@netcom.com> <793053149snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <destryD49wDE.Lxw@netcom.com>
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In article <destryD49wDE.Lxw@netcom.com> destry@netcom.com "Fellwalker" writes:

>      Many people _don't_ scan over most of the posts, because they don't 
> find them irrelevant. For those people, subdividing rec.gardens would 
> make it easier to scan through groups of related subjects, instead of 
> scanning through one great pile of everything. It takes me three hours to 
> get through posts because I have to sort and read and sort and read....

I think we're going to have to agree to differ on this. As far as
I can see, any splitting of this group will, inevitably, increase
the total number of postings and will irreparably damage its catholic
nature. Being familiar neither with your newsreader, nor the way you use 
it, I find it impossible to imagine how it can take so 
long to look through a list of threads, decide which ones might 
interest you then either read, or pass by them. I'm afraid I simply
don't understand your comment about having to "sort and read" etc. 
This is obviously a failing on my part, for which I apologise.    

> 
> : But, if you, too, are a generalist, interested in reading about 
> : everything, how will fragmentation help? You'll still want to read all 
> : these posts - and splitting will simply increase the number of them as 
> : newbies inevitably use a shotgun approach with their questions.
> 
>      If I'm looking for info about vegetable gardening (for example) it 
> would probably be quicker to find it in rec.gardens.misc.edible or 
> whatever, instead of scanning through floweres, trees, pt lumber,etc. If 
> I'm just scanning for interesting subjects, it would be quicker scanning 
> through a group of more closely related subjects than a very general group.
>    (example, would you think that "comp.sys" should be the only comp.sys 
> group with no further division? Or rec.sports?)
>     Newbies are only ignorant, _not_ stupid. They learn by their mistakes 
> and stop making them. rec.gardens.roses and rec.gardens.orchids have 
> hardly gone down under a barrage of cross posts.

Equally, if all you are interested in is vegetable growing, how long
does it take to scan a day or so's threads for those containing
relevant information? My server has a seven day expiry, which means that
I am confronted with several screens of threads every time I log on.
Even with that number, it would be the work of minutes to scan through
for vegetable-related threads. 

Continuing your line of argument, I still fail to see how you think
division will help if you are a generalist gardener. Having scanned
and read rec.vegetables (or whatever) you will then have to plough
(!) through all the other groups which might interest you. These
will contain either the same, or a greater, number of posts which
means your total time saving will amount to zero. Compartmentalising
will offer no time savings and carries the risk that, for example,
the chrysanthemum specialist is likely to miss a fascinating post
about general cultivation which appears on another group. Either that
or, if it has been cross-posted, s/he will be forced to endure it
by the number of times the cross-posting has taken place.

Your analogy with other pursuits is a bit of a non sequitur because
the baseball fan is *very* unlikely to be interested in the cricket 
scores in the match between Pakistan and New Zealand at Karachi. 
Similarly, the PC clone user is unlikely to be concerned by the
latest developments in Cray operating systems. The gardener, 
however, is likely to be interested in *many* different genera and
many different horticultural techniques.  

I hope I haven't suggested (and do not believe I have) that newbies
are stupid. They are, however, a fact of life: one demonstarted
to extremes every Autumn. They will *always* be with us and
they will *always* cross-post and make the same mistakes we all
have made. You won't stop cross-posting, it happens everywhere.
If we allow rec.gardens to be sub-divided in this passion for
compartmentalisation, we will simply encourage that phenomenon.

<words deleted to save bandwidth>

>     rec.gardens reorganization would hold back the development of the 
> 'Net? How many new newsgroups were you given a choice of when you signed 
> on today? (I had about 10 or so.)

That wasn't the point that I was making. I was saying that if we
contort Usenet to take account of those with minimum facilities,
the net as a whole suffers. If your argument for division of 
rec.gardens is supported by the claim that this is required for
those whose servers expire articles at unreasoanbly short periods,
then that amounts to such a contortion. An analogy would be
the growth of WWW, which gobbles-up bandwidth at a terrifying rate.
Should we have banned it, because of that, or installed greater
bandwidth? By extension, should we butcher rec.gardens (or any
other group) simply for the sake of those whose servers have short 
memories?

>   
> ....snip...
> : >    While I don't agree with his 'plant' hierarchy idea, please realize 
> : > there are more than a few people who _would_ like to see some sort of 
> : > reorganization....and their views are just as valid as yours. It is 
> : > unfair to arbitrarily lump them into groups and dismiss them.
> 
> : Breaking objections down into component elements is a good way of finding
> : whether there are valid points being made. No one has challenged the
> : points raised by Sherry, Kay Klier, myself and others as to
> : *why* these proposals have been made - they have simply expanded on
> : them - which is fine and shows that the reduction has served its
> : purpose. It's hardly 'lumping them into groups' - it's an attempt at
> : analysis on the hoof :-). From there, those points have been disagreed 
> : with, not "dismissed".
> 
>      My reference to 'lumping into groups' was because of your statements 
> about what sort of people want to reorganize rec.gardens, breaking down 
> into something like, People who are too lazy to scan, people who don't 
> know how to use their newsreaders (to scan), and 'non-gardeners'. I am 
> not lazy, or I wouldn't be putting the work into the rec.gardens proposal 
> that I have. I know darn well how to use my (threaded) newsreader, and I 
> am most certainly a gardener. 

And I *still* don't see why it takes you three hours to scan and
read a selection from a few hundred posts. Moreover, neither do I see 
how splitting this group will save you much (any?) time and effort.

We all receive the same number of posts and yet it is still only
a handful of people who have claimed that this is a major problem.
Many of what Sherry calls the "shredders" have supported the 
division on the grounds that they are simply not *interested* in
other subjects (which is sad, but fair enough) but few are claiming
that reading rec.gardens is in danger of becoming a full-time
occupation. That suggests, with respect, that the problem lies in
the way those few people are handling their news reading, rather than 
any inherent problem with the group itself.


>     Whatever Mr. Sexton's reasons are behind his rec.plants proposal, it 
> is unfair to him, and to anyone else putting forward any proposal, to 
> dismiss him on those grounds, instead of by disagreement with the proposal 
> itself. 

His proposal is absurd on any basis. Gardening is about far more than
specific genera and I find it deeply surprising that any gardener
could have proposed this. A taxonomist (pace Kay Klier!) maybe,
but a gardener, no. As for the other points, if people (and some
have) put forward arguments in favour of splitting this group
which are based on either laziness, lack of knowledge or
whatever, I do not consider it all unreasonable to comment 
accordingly. 

-- 
Gary Cooper


From rgccmc@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:07 EST 1995
Article: 55401 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: rgccmc@aol.com (Rgccmc)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Dames Rocket Wildflower, where can I find seeds ?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 18:49:08 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Has any one ever planted these wildflowers.  They look like Phlox but they
are a member of the mustard family.  They are blue, violet, purple and
pink.  I have been looking for seed but have had no luck.


From bbeer@u.washington.edu Mon Mar  6 10:38:09 EST 1995
Article: 55402 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!nntp.cac.washington.edu!bbeer
From: bbeer@u.washington.edu (Bob Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Least liked plant
Date: 20 Feb 1995 09:31:46 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
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References: <010879XRPITVGJLEMENO@kbbs.com>
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This sounds like Brugmannsia, or "angel's trumpet."  It used to be 
classified as a Datura but the woody species have reclassified.  There 
are many species, from the white to yellow to orange and red.  Great 
plants.  I wish they were hardy here....

bob

In article <010879XRPITVGJLEMENO@kbbs.com>,  <kwilliam@kbbs.com> wrote:
>
>with respect to least liked plants, sdb writes:
> <...and for a week after trimming barberry, any kind of barberry,
> >little thorns would fester out of my skin.
>
>Sounds like my hands, when I once tripped and fell into stinging nettle.
>Interesting, vigorous plant-- gruesome effect!
>
>Which leads me to another plant and a question:
>
>I manage two apartment buildings in West Los Angeles, and next door to
>one of my buildings is a flowering tree of some kind that overhangs my
>building's walkway.  It's a weedy kind of tree, not very full in
>foliage, however once every one and a half months or so in this mild
>climate, the tree bursts (almost literally) into six to ten inch long
>white trumpet shaped flowers.  It has a faint heady scent, kind of like
>a watered down version of a Casablanca lily grown from a bulb.
>
>What *is* this tree?  I haven't any objections to the tree, quite the
>contrary-- I'd just like to know!
>
>Thanks....
>
>k. jolley-williams
>
>
>--
>    [*]   Message Origin:  KBBS Los Angeles!  74 Access Lines   [*]
>    [*]   (818) 886-0872 or Telnet 204.96.25.7  info@kbbs.com   [*]
>
>
>




From m.l.zimmerman@lerc.nasa.gov Mon Mar  6 10:38:10 EST 1995
Article: 55403 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!news.bu.edu!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!mzimmer.lerc.nasa.gov!user
From: m.l.zimmerman@lerc.nasa.gov (Martin Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: PROPOSED REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:33:36 -0600
Organization: Analex Corp. - NASA Lewis Research Center
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <m.l.zimmerman-1702951233360001@mzimmer.lerc.nasa.gov>
References: <brian.792620261@dorite> <3hov2r$o8b@riscsm.scripps.edu> <3hqg6i$gaf@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <1995Feb14.201950.38627@cobra.uni.edu> <jwalker-160295161346@stc1-2.nas.mr.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mzimmer.lerc.nasa.gov
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Another vote for the status quo. With the subjects plain to see, it only
takes me a few minutes to pick out the stuff I want to read. Lots of times
I find information for solving one problem in a post with a seemingly
unrelated subject heading. Maybe I'm buried in snow (actually we had a
thaw yesterday and I spotted my first snowdrop!) but I can garden
vicariously through the Californians and Southerners. Maybe I'd like to
stay organic, but its nice to know what chemical will get the job done
when the black vine weevils have my yews at death's door (the SOBs have
killed 2 big ones already).

I've been a follower of rec.pets.dogs for awhile, a group that recently
split into about 6 groups. I don't really feel that I'm saving any time
cruising through 4 out of 6 groups, than I did cruising once through the
big group (esp. since a lot of stuff is crossposted between groups). When
you look at the many different ways of splitting up rec.gardens ( food vs.
landscaping, organic vs. non-organic, warm climate vs. cold climate etc) I
think the crossposting would outweigh the gain of being able to skip a few
groups (like rec.gardens.bermudagrass.die.die.die :-) ).

my 2¢

Marty

-- 
Marty Zimmerman                           m.l.zimmerman@lerc.nasa.gov
Analex Corp - NASA Lewis Research Center
Cleveland, Ohio USA


From smeagol@midland.co.nz Mon Mar  6 10:38:12 EST 1995
Article: 55404 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!ames!waikato!news.midland.co.nz!midland.co.nz!smeagol
From: smeagol@midland.co.nz (Neil Mercer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: PROPOSED REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Date: 18 Feb 1995 05:31:34 GMT
Organization: Midland Internet Limited - Hamilton, New Zealand
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References: <brian.792620261@dorite> <3hov2r$o8b@riscsm.scripps.edu> <3hqg6i$gaf@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <1995Feb14.201950.38627@cobra.uni.edu> <792860357snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk> <3htkkg$4ql@news.bu.edu> <destryD44EBr.1t2@netcom.com> <3i2t57$ip1@news.bu.edu>
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I think rec.gardens should stay as it is.  I enjoy the variety in the 
group, especially as I don't have very specific gardening interests.  I  
don't see why the number of posts on this newsgroup should be a problem, 
and I don't think it's a legitimate reason for splitting.  As Sherry 
said, get a threader.  It doesn't take that long to scan the group for 
items that interest you, it's an easily learned skill.  I really don't 
want to have to read many newsgroups to find out things which I can 
currently find out in this one newsgroup as I don't see that it's 
necessary.

Leave rec.gardens as it is!

Tania.


From kidkaos@uslink.net Mon Mar  6 10:38:13 EST 1995
Article: 55405 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!gt-news!cc.gatech.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!mr.net!newshost.uslink.net!pp5
From: kidkaos@uslink.net (pete hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: IVY GERANIUMS
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 18:02:58 GMT
Organization: US Link Communications
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Distribution: world
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kathy.floritto@sasquat.com (KATHY FLORITTO) wrote:
>
>
>     Is there a secret to cloning ivy geraniums?  Will someone please
>share it?  I've never had difficulty with the "ordinary"
>geranium/pelargonium - but the ivy type defeats me...every single time.
>
>     Help!
>
>                              KATHY
>
> * 1st 2.00b #3640 * Kathy.Floritto@Sasquat.com
>
>

  Like all geraniums, do not overwater.  Make sure they dry out good between watereings.  They prefer
as much light as they can get.  If they are to shaded they will die.  Pick off old flowers and leaves.  The
biggest problem I've seen is that people overwater.  (also becareful not ot over fertilize!!)  The leaves yellow if
you overwater.  Second biggest problem is that they don't get enough light.
                                                          Kay Hanson


From kidkaos@uslink.net Mon Mar  6 10:38:15 EST 1995
Article: 55406 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!gt-news!cc.gatech.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!mr.net!newshost.uslink.net!pp5
From: kidkaos@uslink.net (pete hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Lavender
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 18:12:24 GMT
Organization: US Link Communications
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bolducd@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Bolduc Diane) wrote:
>Hi,
>
>   This year I want to try growing lavender in a self-watering container
>of 1' 1/2 wide by 2' depth (Is it enough??). I haven't choose yet wich
>variety and if I should buy plants or start them from seeds. I'd like
>them to bloom this summer.  I live in a Zone 5 (CAN), the equivalent is
>it Zone 4-4a (USAD)? I live far north Vermont State, exacly in Montreal.
>
>   If it works, how many years could it stay in. Will I have to devide
>them? And how about the soil mix, do I use a rich soil or a poor one
>since it's going to stay in place? I'd like to keep growing lavender
>this way for few years.
>
>   And also, does anyone know if it's possible to place it in a
>greenhouse at the end of the summer for a second bloom?
>
>  You may have notice, Yes I'm crasy about lavender!!! :-)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Diane
>_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_
>:  You can answer here in the newsgroup for the benefit   :
>:  of everyone  or e-mail me at bolducd@ere.umontreal.ca  :
>_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_
>

There is a variety that blooms annually (I think it's called Lavender Lady, I'm not sure)  Otherwise
 Lavender from seed  shouldn't bloom the first year.  Lavender Lady  only came out last year.
I have lavender plants (Northern Minnesota zone 3) that Ihave come up every year for 3 years.
The lavender plant I brought in never did well, I guess it didn't get enough light.  You might want to
just buy a single plant ( ask to make sure it will bloom this year, or check the tray and see if others
look like they are going to bud.)  the bigger the container the better, you may have to repot by the
 end of summer..  If you plant seeds, don't give up, I've heard it takes them a while to come up.
                                                                Kay Hanson


From pford@cabell.vcu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:38:17 EST 1995
Article: 55407 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!freenet.vcu.edu!cabell.vcu.edu!not-for-mail
From: pford@cabell.vcu.edu (Phil D. Ford)
Newsgroups: alt.stupidity,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: corn
Date: 20 Feb 1995 10:38:07 -0500
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Lines: 21
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3iad0v$hn6@cabell.vcu.edu>
References: <3i29to$8gi@cabell.vcu.edu> <3i8trj$7el@cabell.vcu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cabell.vcu.edu
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.stupidity:30992 rec.gardens:55407
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>(Chuck-chuck, bo-buck, banana-fanana fo-fuc--) wrote:

>%% I, the cabbage, wrote: 
>%% 
>%% 
>%% I like corn.

>yea, well, i liked it before you did.

Like hell you did.  I was around when them christian disciples
decided to rip off this rites of spring = easter thing.  And
let me tell you them pagans were pretty pissed when they didn't
get any credit for it.

>2:30 snack?

You bet, let's go get some corn-nuts.


cabbage:  better living through saying "and corn" instead of
          "and bacon".


From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:19 EST 1995
Article: 55408 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!gt-news!cc.gatech.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: Opinions on Most Popular Herbs
Message-ID: <destryD4AC13.MK@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
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References: <3hb0uo$j2k@babylon.gain.com> <3hcaqf$qt5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <fettrow.1.1.2F47DEAB@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 06:15:03 GMT
Lines: 11
Sender: destry@netcom6.netcom.com
Status: O
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: >Subject: Re: Opinions on Most Popular Herbs

   Basil.
Last year I grew 6 varieties, my generic Sweet Basil living until mid 
January...only to be struck down by the California rains. Thai basil, 
opal basil, ruffled basil, globe basil (probably my only un-favorite basil)
   Did I mention Basil?  ;)

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From kovler@smart.net Mon Mar  6 10:38:20 EST 1995
Article: 55409 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!hudson.lm.com!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!smarty.smart.net!smarty.smart.net!not-for-mail
From: kovler@smart.net (Ken Kovler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Rooting Geraniums
Date: 19 Feb 1995 20:30:13 -0500
Organization: Smart.Net Internet Services [ via smarty ]
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <3i8rb5$3g7@smarty.smart.net>
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I have 5 Geranium plants that I brought indoors in Fall 1994.  They are 
growing very well indoors.  However, I now would like to grow additional 
Geranium plants from cuttings of these plants.  Does anyone know how to root
Geranium plants from already established plants to be planted outdoors 
in Spring 1995?

Responses by E-Mail please.


From Rob@autech.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:38:22 EST 1995
Article: 55410 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Rob@autech.demon.co.uk (Rob Lawley)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!autech.demon.co.uk!Rob
Subject: Software for designing gardens?
Reply-To: Rob@autech.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29
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Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 16:25:16 +0000
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk
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Hi All,

I wonder if anyone out there knows of any *good* software for designing
gardens that runs on the PC. A relative of mine wants to design a *big*
garden, and will be spending oodles of cash on it all, so cost is not much
of an issue, but availability and quality is.

-- 
Rob Lawley


From mmk@tiac.net Mon Mar  6 10:38:24 EST 1995
Article: 55411 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!usenet
From: mmk <mmk@tiac.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Garden Design Program Wanted
Date: 20 Feb 1995 02:44:55 GMT
Organization: The Internet Access Company
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <3i8vn7$73a@sundog.tiac.net>
References: <3i157h$11@eliza.netaxis.com> <3i44fi$kpq@cello.gina.calstate.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mmk.tiac.net
Status: O
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I have flowerscape. I have not used it too much because I had some difficulty running it with an ATI video card.
I just got a new machine, and it seems to run OK.
What would you like to know??
Mike



From tristed@passport.ca Mon Mar  6 10:38:25 EST 1995
Article: 55412 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!tcsi.tcs.com!uunet!winternet.com!interlog.com!news1.fonorola.net!fonorola!infoshare!passport.ca!not-for-mail
From: tristed@passport.ca (Patricia Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Using Epsom salts in in plant soil?
Date: 20 Feb 1995 12:16:31 -0500
Organization: Passport
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <3iaipf$2ep@forged.passport.ca>
References: <robinson.793067405@ichips.intel.com><793125372snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: forged.passport.ca
Status: O
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In rec.gardens Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk (Gary Cooper) said: 
 
 
>In article <robinson.793067405@ichips.intel.com> 
>           robinson@ichips.intel.com "David Lyle Robinson" writes: 
> 
>> I recently looked at a booklett written by Jerry Baker 
>> that suggests using epsom salts as a spring soil preparation. 
>> It even suggests using it in potting soil for starting 
>> transplants.  In other places, the booklett suggests using 
>> dish soap and instant tea as a fertilizer. 
>>  
>> Has anyone ever heard of this, and if so what is in 
>> these that makes it work?  Sounds like a bunch of 
>> unfounded hocus-pocus claims to me, but I'm open 
>> to learning new tricks. 
> 
>Epsom salts are no problem at all - in fact they're magnesium sulphate
which  
>ends-up as magnesium, as far as your plants are concerned. Magnesium  
>deficiencies are quite common and certain plants (roses, tomatoes and  
>chrysanthemums for example) are particularly prone to this. 
> 
>I'd suggest, however, that this author is simply wrong in suggesting that
it be  
>used universally. It's normally included in sufficient quantities in  
>commercially prepared potting mixtures and is present in all good compound
 
>fertilisers, including seed-starting and potting bases. I can't see why he
 
>really thinks it is necessary unless you have a proven Mg deficiency. 
> 
>Meanwhile, I haven't a *clue* what he thinks is in instant tea (being
English,  
>the very notion of it makes me shudder <g>) and I am highly suspicious of
"dish  
>soap". My *guess* would be that he might be suggesting soap as a form of  
>wetting agent, but, even then, I find it hard to believe it would be the
best  
>choice. 
> 
>Hope that's some help, 
> 
> 
>--  
>Gary Cooper 
- 
I recently saw Martha Stewart pant a whole bed of bare root roses feeding
them Epsom salts. Then-presto-thanks to the magic of TV, she showed them
all in magnificent bloom only 5 weeks later! 
P.S.-I agree with you on the tea issue.My great grandfather always said he
liked his tea like a good woman-hot and strong and sweet :-)  
 
Trish 
Patricia Turner     or        Ted Turner 
-the garden grifter-       -not married to Jane!- 


From tristed@passport.ca Mon Mar  6 10:38:27 EST 1995
Article: 55413 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!tcsi.tcs.com!uunet!winternet.com!interlog.com!news1.fonorola.net!fonorola!infoshare!passport.ca!not-for-mail
From: tristed@passport.ca (Patricia Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Squirrels
Date: 20 Feb 1995 12:16:49 -0500
Organization: Passport
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3iaiq2$2f7@forged.passport.ca>
References: <3i59vo$dr1$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: forged.passport.ca
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In rec.gardens Gordon Smith <100046.1407@CompuServe.COM> said: 
 
 
>Does anyone have an effective way to reduce squirrels in a garden? 
> 
> 
>--  
>Gordon 
 
Teeny tiny condoms :-) -- 
Patricia Turner     or        Ted Turner 
-the garden grifter-       -not married to Jane!- 


From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Mon Mar  6 10:38:28 EST 1995
Article: 55414 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Thompson & Morgan
Date: 20 Feb 1995 17:55:29 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3ial2h$6p1@post.its.mcw.edu>
References: <D41zz3.M78@lcpd2.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM> <793016240snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac7.crc.mcw.edu
Status: O
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> In article <D41zz3.M78@lcpd2.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM>
>            first.last@SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM "Your Name" writes: 
> > I just received the Thompson & Morgan catalog.  It's the most extensive 
> > selection I've ever seen!  Does anyone have any experience with them?  Quality 
> > of seeds/plants, etc. 
> > Their phone number, by the way, is (908)363-2225.


Both T&M and Chiltern Seeds are good, reliable companies.  While Chiltern
has no US office, you can use a charge card to make purchases.

Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>



From egreeff@intch.co.za Mon Mar  6 10:38:29 EST 1995
Article: 55415 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!usenet
From: 192.96.36.13 (Etienne Greeff)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Sago palm ( cycas * ) watering info please ?
Date: 20 Feb 1995 07:50:06 GMT
Organization: Intertech Systems
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <3i9hje$ilv@hermes.is.co.za>
Reply-To: egreeff@intch.co.za
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.96.36.13
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1
Status: O
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I've recently moved into a house with a lovely garden with some
sago palms aka cycases. Does anybody know how much water these plants
require. Our average daily temperature currently ( Late summer ) is
20 deg Centigrade.

Please if somebody can help me before I do damage to these lovely ancient
plants.



From egreeff@intch.co.za Mon Mar  6 10:38:30 EST 1995
Article: 55416 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!usenet
From: 192.96.36.13 (Etienne Greeff)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Using Epsom salts in in plant soil?
Date: 20 Feb 1995 07:54:33 GMT
Organization: Intertech Systems
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3i9hrp$ilv@hermes.is.co.za>
References: <65418-793240626@mindlink.bc.ca>
Reply-To: egreeff@intch.co.za
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.96.36.13
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1
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>I have no idea about the instant tea and soap, but I can tell you about the
>Epsom Salts.  Epsom Salts is magnesium sulphate. 

>From what I know Epsom Salts is used in the bonsai world as well. The
reason we use it is when we give our bonsai a lot of bore hole water which
tends to be very lime rich. The lime rich water impedes on the plants 
ablitiy to absorb nitrogen and the epsom salts neutralizes this.

Hope this helps,
Etienne


From simone.rosa-knight@ptonline.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:32 EST 1995
Article: 55417 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!dragon!ptonline!simone.rosa-knight
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: gardening task analysis
Message-ID: <4947.866.uupcb@ptonline.com>
From: simone.rosa-knight@ptonline.com (Simone Rosa-Knight) 
Date: 20 Feb 95 01:49:00 GMT
Reply-To: simone.rosa-knight@ptonline.com (Simone Rosa-Knight) 
References: <Pine.ULT.3.91.950214112504.18994A-100000@selway.umt.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: Prime Time On-Line, Alpharetta, GA  --  404-667-3085
Lines: 62
Status: O
X-Status: 

TO: jo s soo <joseph@selway.umt.edu>

JS>.@SUBJECT:gardening task analysis
JS>Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.950214112504.18994A-100000@selway.umt.edu>
JS>From: Jo S Soo <joseph@selway.umt.edu>
JS>Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 11:40:51 -0700

JS>Hi! I have an assigment to find out what exactly a gardener do to
JS>plan  out their garden for the coming season. My assignment is to
JS>create a  gardening help system, kinda like a check list of what to
JS>do and prepare  for. The system is to advise gardeners on what to
JS>plant, when and how to  lay out the garden for the best effect.
JS>Things like soil type, watering  techniques, fertilizers, light, heat
JS>etc. This is just for a regular  gardener. <snip>

so if there's  anyone out there who could give me the basic tips on 
what's needed to  have a healthy garden, please help me.


Joseph,

One of the things I wish I had done was known when to order seeds for 
indoor starting.  As is, I'm afraid that I have started too late for my 
Atlanta climate.  Would also be nice to have a data base of plant info 
so that you could do things like figure spacing for mature plants (like 
veggie gardens), how many plants you can fit in a given space, what 
light and water requirements are, etc.

I'm currently trying to lay out my veggie garden on paper, figuring 
mature sizes from catalog info as well as light requirements, like what 
I can plant next to the trellis full of squash and cucumbers that can 
take partial shade, and what I need to plan successive plantings of.

Would also have been nice to have a reminder in Sept. to plant a fall 
cover crop that could have enriched the soil and then been plowed under 
in Dec. or Jan. (with a reminder for that, too!)  I've also noticed that 
not all plants or seeds come with uniform info on soil type preferred.  
Due to this inconsistency I've wound up with a lot of alkaline loving 
plants in the same bed as a bunch of acid loving plants!

These are the one's I can think of right now, but I'm sure you'll get a 
lot more imput.  If your "project" is something we might be able to buy 
when finished please let us know where and how to get it!

Good luck,
Simone

Paul E.Knight
OR
Simone A. Rosa-Knight
Atlanta, GA. 30340
Internet: Paul.Knight@ptonline.com
Simone.Rosa-Knight@ptonline.com
404-491-7293
---
. CMPQwk #1.4. UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

----
*****************************************************************************
**     Prime Time On-Line       Atlanta's Source for FULL INTERNET         **
**   1200-28.8  404-667-1081    FTP/TELNET/GOPHER  4.0 Gig On-Line         **
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From bw032@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Mar  6 10:38:33 EST 1995
Article: 55418 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!ames!news.hawaii.edu!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bw032
From: bw032@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Judith C. Price)
Subject: Re: Seeking Garden Tours in England
Message-ID: <D49z03.MGJ@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: bw032@freenet2.carleton.ca (Judith C. Price)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 01:33:38 GMT
Lines: 7
Status: O
X-Status: 


We went to England in May/June of 1987 and visited Bodnant
Gardens in north Wales, between Conwy and Betws-y-Coed.  The garden
is varied and very beautiful at this time with rhododendrons
in flower.  Gorgeous, and Conwy Castle is also worth the side trip.

We're going next month! Have fun!


From john.spivey@mcc.com.au Mon Mar  6 10:38:34 EST 1995
Article: 55419 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!asstdc.scgt.oz.au!mcc!john.spivey
From: john.spivey@mcc.com.au (JOHN SPIVEY)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Species Camellias
Message-ID: <8A3C452.05800000D3.uuout@mcc.com.au>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 18:26:00 +1000
Distribution: world
Organization: My Computer Company BBS, Australia [+61] (02) 565-1044
Reply-To: john.spivey@mcc.com.au (JOHN SPIVEY)
References: <8943145.0580000005.uuout@mcc.com.au>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.21
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.10
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X-Status: 

I am looking for information on camellia rosiflora which I have just 
acquired and other species camellias. 

Any suggestions how to obtain information including history, preferably 
through Internet including WWW, Gopher or FTP, would be greatly 
appreciated.



All the best ...
John Spivey, Nowra, Australia.
---
 * WR  # 562 * A confident manner is important: Computers can sense this




From larry_carbaugh@tscnet.eskimo.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:36 EST 1995
Article: 55420 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news.alpha.net!mvb.saic.com!eskimo!tscnet!larry_carbaugh
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking,rec.gardens
Subject: Support ?-?-?
From: larry_carbaugh@tscnet.eskimo.com (Larry Carbaugh)
Message-ID: <5d.1.1715@tscnet.eskimo.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 95 09:46:00 -0800
Organization: TSCNET Inc.  d(206)613-2388  v(206)613-0708
Lines: 18
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.food.cooking:121463 rec.gardens:55420
Status: O
X-Status: 

I just down loaded Meal Master version.  8.01	little over a week ago.
I have been wonder what kind of support there was for this program.
I live close to Everett Wa.and tried to located Episoft System
without success.  The ingredients list did not have sticks in the
list of measurement.  How can this be entered or does this feature
come in the registrated version?

TTYL.....Larry

9:29:47 am Sat 02-18-1995

Internet: larry_carbaugh@tscnet.eskimo.com
RIME: ->1607
Fido:  1:350/225

... Money: Root of all evil. Send $20 for more info.
---
 þ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 þ


From john.spivey@mcc.com.au Mon Mar  6 10:38:37 EST 1995
Article: 55421 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!uchinews!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!asstdc.scgt.oz.au!mcc!john.spivey
From: john.spivey@mcc.com.au (JOHN SPIVEY)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Species Camellias
Message-ID: <8A3E575.05800000D6.uuout@mcc.com.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 23:17:00 +1000
Distribution: world
Organization: My Computer Company BBS, Australia [+61] (02) 565-1044
Reply-To: john.spivey@mcc.com.au (JOHN SPIVEY)
References: <8943145.0580000005.uuout@mcc.com.au>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.21
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I am looking for information on camellia rosiflora which I have just 
acquired and other species camellias. 

Any suggestions how to obtain information including history, preferably 
through Internet including WWW, Gopher or FTP, would be greatly 
appreciated.



All the best ...
John Spivey, Nowra, Australia.
---
 * WR  # 562 * A confident manner is important: Computers can sense this




From mobabbb@utkvx.utk.edu Mon Mar  6 10:38:38 EST 1995
Article: 55422 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!martha.utk.edu!mobabbb!mobabbb
From: mobabbb@utkvx.utk.edu (Meredith Morris-Babb)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 'Garden in Time' New 3D software FREE for testers
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 19:04:56 GMT
Organization: UT Press
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <mobabbb.1143694736K@newsserver.utcc.utk.edu>
References: <3hqtja$iic@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3i74ji$2db@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: utpress05.admin.utk.edu
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I, too would appreciate a copy of that shareware/software.  I am in East
Tenn, zone 6-7 (no one can decide!).  I maintain both gardens and yards,
which done here means a veggie patch and lots of shubbery!

Meredith Morris-Babb
"Those aren't typos - its a new language."


From mobabbb@utkvx.utk.edu Mon Mar  6 10:38:39 EST 1995
Article: 55423 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!martha.utk.edu!mobabbb!mobabbb
From: mobabbb@utkvx.utk.edu (Meredith Morris-Babb)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: rec.plants.*
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 19:11:31 GMT
Organization: UT Press
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <mobabbb.1143695131L@newsserver.utcc.utk.edu>
References: <1995Feb16.084657.38710@cobra.uni.edu> <3i7ugr$ikk@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: utpress05.admin.utk.edu
X-Newsreader: VersaTerm Link v1.1.5
Status: O
X-Status: 

My memory maybe foggy, but I seem to remember Mr. Sexton doing the same
thing a while back to rec.pets.dogs vs. rec.wildlife.  This individual,
whether it be Mr. Sexton or no, chose to grab all the animal groups on the
Net and divide tham as he aw fit.  He could not have possibily read any of
then, because rec.pets.dogs was going through a ref. to split at that moment!

FYI.

Meredith Morris-Babb
"Those aren't typos - its a new language."

p.s. speaking of splits, wasn't there a ref. on this group aoubt, hmm.. six
months ago? I know .roses was created, but what about the other groups?  I
have been away for a few months, so I am somewhat at a loss....


From spudnik1@bev.net Mon Mar  6 10:38:40 EST 1995
Article: 55424 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet
From: spudnik1@bev.net (spudnik1)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Another Definition for a Weed
Date: 20 Feb 1995 08:19:30 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3i9jai$p8u@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <mfrost.289.00601788@primenet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: spudnik1.bevb.blacksburg.va.us
X-Newsreader: WinVN version 0.82
Status: O
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In article <mfrost.289.00601788@primenet.com>, mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost) says:
>
>A weed is a plant that has no economic value to anyone, and most likely 
>interferes with the garden economy by its presence. If someone wanted it bad 
>enough, chances are it would be harvested to extinction.
>Regards, Martha
>mfrost@primenet.com
What about "weeds" that have no economic value but can be good for the garden economy, such as those that attract helpful pest killing insects. Other "weeds" are actually useful herbs that can be useful but many people lack the knowledge on their uses.Per
sonally, stinging nettle was a great help to me during my pregnancy. Queen Anne's lace is another "weed" which not only has beneficial medicinal properties, but also makes a pleasant tea and attracts beneficial insects. Other "weeds" which I not only find
 useful but nice to look at include yarrow and chickory. I don't know much about star thistle yet, but since it seems to be "infesting" my entire neighborhood I have found that the small magenta flowers dry nicely and are an intresting addition to wreaths
 and other arangements.
Perhaps it's best that these haven't been harvested to extinction, but believe it or not, some of these are harvested or commercially grown. I will say that I could do without6 crabgrass though.
        :) C.B.


From jcostello@mail.utexas.edu Mon Mar  6 10:38:42 EST 1995
Article: 55425 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!cban-mac-44.bus.utexas.edu!jcostello
From: Jennifer Costello <jcostello@mail.utexas.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Is there a tissue culture expert in the house?
Date: 20 Feb 1995 18:12:20 GMT
Organization: utAustin
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Re:Is there a tissue culture expert in the house?

I'm not a tissue culture expert but if you have access to the WWW, there
is an address you can access:

aggie.horticulture.tamu.edu/tisscult/tcintro.html

This subgroup is under the Texas A & M Horticulture page.

Good luck.


J.Costello
(The worst Texas has to offer - Phil Gramm)


From kwilliam@kbbs.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:43 EST 1995
Article: 55426 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!waldorf.csc.calpoly.edu!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!kbbs.com!kwilliam
Subject: What tree/plant is this?
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: kwilliam@kbbs.com
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 09:00:56 PST
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mberteig@alumni.caltech.edu writes:

<...you can smell a very good-smelling fragrance in the air, and I would
< love to know what kind of plant is doing it!  I think it may be a
< tree...

You're most likely correct.  I used to live in Santa Monica, and just
outside my living room window of my apartment was a well-established
night blooming jasmine tree that was constantly blooming.  Every evening
and morning there would be a heady scent of perfume around the walkway;
sweet and almost intoxicating.

Look around for flower droppings from these trees-- small, about the
size of the tip of your littlest finger, white to pale greeny yellow.

I'm not a horticultural expert, but the tree is a distinctly different
plant from star jasmine, which seems to be a trailing vine/bush
popularly used in landscaping around these parts. The scents are
different; star jasmine smells like the jasmine scent used in perfumery
and isn't as strong as the night-blooming jasmine tree.

Hope this helps!

k. jolley-williams


--
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From jcostello@mail.utexas.edu Mon Mar  6 10:38:44 EST 1995
Article: 55427 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!cban-mac-44.bus.utexas.edu!jcostello
From: Jennifer Costello <jcostello@mail.utexas.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: office plants?
Date: 20 Feb 1995 18:16:58 GMT
Organization: utAustin
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Re: office plants?

Also, Corn plant (looks like a small tree) which blooms in early spring
with very fragrant flowers. Mother-in-law tongue (sorry-don't know
botanical name, it may be a dracaena) and any pothos ivy all do well
under very low light such as flourescent lights.

jcostello
(the worst Texas has to offer - Phil Gramm)


From destry@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:45 EST 1995
Article: 55428 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.alpha.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: rec.gardens.organic...Opinions??
Message-ID: <destryD44yFu.IKz@netcom.com>
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Adam Finkelstein (adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu) wrote:
: In article <destryD42923.I7L@netcom.com>, Fellwalker <destry@netcom.com> wrote:
: >
: >   I understand the point you're trying to make, but I've tried to make it
: >clear that this is not the actual in-fact official discussion that will be
: >done once I will submit the rfd. Once I do that, _then_ it will be

: Perhaps these other groups should be aware that you plan to submit an rfd?
: Maybe their input *now* might change what you write in your rfd.

: >The entire purpose of the discussion period is to do what you keep urging me
: >to do now, include the other related newsgroups. 
: >   Yes, indeed, I'm being 'rec.gardensocentric', for as I stated in the 
: >very beginning, I was simply seeking informal opinions from the people 
: >currently reading rec.gardens, _before_ bringing it up for formal discussion.

:  I understand. But even an informal discussion about a newsgroup devoted to
: organic culture in only *rec.gardens*  seems unrealistic. What else do you
: need to discuss? Some want the group, some don't, here. How about giving
: the rest of the groups a chance to voice their opinions *before* you write
: the cfd/rfd. What is unreasonable about that?

   I never said it was unreasonable...I think it would be great to be able
discuss it thoroughly with everyone and anyone. The main reason I brought
it up in rec.gardens was that it directly affected the rec.gardens
hierarchy. I have nothing against mentioning it in other newsgroups, but
there are quite a few newsgroups that would have an interest in organic
gardening, and I just _do not_ have the time to follow every thread of
discussion that arises on every group. (Voicing opnions does no good if
the people you're voicing them to don't hear them. I'm not being
disinterested, I just _cannot_ realistically conduct a huge informal poll
of the Usenet)

   So far today I have spent 6 hours just answering rec.gardens email and
wading through Usenet. I realize you feel strongly that I should solicit
opinions on alt.sustainable.agriculture. I feel that is a valid
concern...I still have your original email from several days ago
(suggesting it) in my 'unanswered mail'. Since that particular group would
have a particular interest in the proposed organic newsgroup, I was
planning on posting there at some point, when I get half a minute together
to do so. However, I stand by my feeling that _Usenet wide_ discussion can
take place during the rfd. At that time any opinions expressed can still
be taken into consideration and changes made to the group proposal, if
necessary. An rfd can go on for up to two months, more than enough time 
for anyone to bring up any points they may have.

   At the moment, the question stands whether rec.gardens.organic will be 
submitted by itself, or as part of the suggested rec.gardens subdivision. 
Until _that_, at least is decided, I won't consider bringing even more 
groups into the discussion. rec.gardens reorganization discussion can 
best take place within rec.gardens.

--Max
   
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From revans@msbbs.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:47 EST 1995
Article: 55429 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!news.xmission.com!news
From: revans@msbbs.com (Ruth Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Beware Totally Tomatoes
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 20:07:56
Organization: CCUBB (A Great BBS)
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>Michelle - Call the credit card co. and give them details - it might no
>be too late.

>When you called did you get the names of the people you talked to?  You
>should ask to speak to the manager, or the CEO - that might get some
>attention.

>Cheers,
>Phil
>----------------------

DEFINITELY!  I did BOTH when dealing with the Van Bourgandien (I hope
I'm spelling it right) company after a fiasco with them.  Companies
don't want ANY problems with the credit card companies they use.

Ruth
     __             ___        __
__  ////\  /\/\  /\/ _//\ __  /// | Anne McCaffrey: Master Word Crafter|
\\\//// '\/    \/ / /\/ '\\\\///  | Princess:  Cutest Wiggle Tail Ever!|
 \XX/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\__/\/\/ \XX/   | revans@vrb.com or revans@msbbs.com |


From revans@msbbs.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:49 EST 1995
Article: 55430 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!news.xmission.com!news
From: revans@msbbs.com (Ruth Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Robot Lawnmower
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 20:08:00
Organization: CCUBB (A Great BBS)
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>At last! As a hayfever sufferer my worst job is cutting the lawn.
>I noticed on a Web page (http://mmm.wwa.com/elux/elt4.html) that a robo
>lawnmower has been invented
>that cruises your lawn all summer powered by solar energy. I wonder if
>will ever
>see the light of day :-)

Yes, it is available for sale and was last summer.  A local (Boise, ID)
company bought one more as a gimic than figuring they'd sell it.  They
made the local news and newspaper.  I don't know if they sold any.  It
seems the cost was in the thousand dollar range.   I don't know about
you, but I can HIRE someone to mow my lawn for years and years and years
for that price!

Ruth
     __             ___        __
__  ////\  /\/\  /\/ _//\ __  /// | Anne McCaffrey: Master Word Crafter|
\\\//// '\/    \/ / /\/ '\\\\///  | Princess:  Cutest Wiggle Tail Ever!|
 \XX/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\__/\/\/ \XX/   | revans@vrb.com or revans@msbbs.com |


From f_rushingrg@titan.sfasu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:38:50 EST 1995
Article: 55431 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!news.uh.edu!titan.sfasu.edu!titan.sfasu.edu!nntp
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Poison Ivy/Oak FAQ
Message-ID: <1995Feb19.203028.727@titan.sfasu.edu>
From: Ron Rushing <f_rushingrg@titan.sfasu.edu>
Date: 19 Feb 95 20:30:28 CST
Distribution: world
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I've complied a small collection of information on poison ivy/oak-- info
about the plants--info about treatment for exposure.

So as not to post large files here (20 or so pages of text), if you're
interested drop me a note and I'll e-mail you a copy.


Ron Rushing
College of Education
S.F.A University
409.468.1424
rrushing@sfasu.edu
"Personal Opinions Only..."


From bobp@cyberquest.com Mon Mar  6 10:38:52 EST 1995
Article: 55432 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!news.cyberquest.com!slip8.cyberquest.com!bobp
From: bobp@cyberquest.com (I wish people would use email)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Buying from a catalog
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 23:41:02 GMT
Organization: Cyberquest
Lines: 56
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <bobp.63.2F47D70E@cyberquest.com>
References: <7743-213503403@mcube.com> <3hnst2$ev3@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> <sbegley.38.2F462A7A@voicenet.com>
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I tried catalog buying through the MICHIGAN BULB company.  I got a 50 percent 
yield between plants and bulbs, and they put me on every 
mailing list they could find.  BEWARE.  They guaranteed all 
plants, but 2 letters later, I've received no 
satisfatction...


>In article <3hnst2$ev3@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> Susan Sanders
><ssanders@umich.edu> writes:
>>From: Susan Sanders <ssanders@umich.edu>
>>Subject: Re: Buying from a catalog
>>Date: 13 Feb 1995 15:12:34 GMT

>>In article <7743-213503403@mcube.com> , rshiell@mcube.com writes:
>>>IJ> What has been your experience in this?  Do you prefer buying from a
>>>IJ>catalog or buying from a store and why? What advice can you offer in
>>this
>>>IJ>area?

>>The real advantages to catalog buying are: 
>>1)  you're more likely to get things that are appropriate for your yard
>>(since you have time to think about it in advance, dig out your books,
>>ask questions on the and make rational decisions); 2) you're less likely
>>to just get things that are in bloom the day you walk into the garden
>>center (too many people have gardens that only bloom in May because
>>that's when they're shopping for plants [or whatever month spring arrives
>>in your part of the country]); 3) you have a much greater selection of
>>plants to choose from; 4) the time spent shopping is done while the snow
>>is on the ground so that once it's gone you can spend time planting!           
>                
>>                                                        -Sue Sanders


>I use catalogue BUYING as a last resort. The selection is usually spectacular, 
>but what youo pay for what you get is a burn!Catalogues are a great reference 
>resource, however.

>Example: I was in the market for big leaf Hosta last fall. A local grower has 
>several dozen varieties (all dormant). I checked Wayside to learn about as 
>many of the varieties as I could and then purchased the plants I wanted from 
>the local grower. Result: I got Sum 'n' Substance in 2 gt containers for $4.50 
>instead of 2" pots @ $8.00 or so from the catalogue.

>The post from Susan Sanders is correct in that by using the catalogue, you 
>have an opportunity to select plants at your leisure and plan for year-round 
>enjoyment. (Or as close to year round as you can get in your area.)

>Take your time, select what you want, and then see if you can find it at a 
>local grower. If not, then you can opt to settle for something close or, if 
>you MUST have it, order from the catalogue.

>Do make it a point, however, to order SOMETHING from a catalogue every couple 
>of years to stay on everyone's mailing list. Lots of catalogue companies share 
>lists. I know that a purchase from either Wayside or Parks keeps BOTH 
>catalogues coming for several years.



From tme9u@galen.med.Virginia.EDU Mon Mar  6 10:38:54 EST 1995
Article: 55433 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!galen.med.Virginia.EDU!tme9u
From: tme9u@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (teresa m. esch)
Subject: seashells in garden?
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: galen.med.virginia.edu
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I was wondering if poutting seashells in the garden would be a
good way to buffer the soil instead of using lime.  LImestone
is made from seashells isn't it?  I was thinking that seashells
would provide a slow-release liming.  I have quite a few sea
shells but would have to buy lime....

Any opinions?


teresa
--
 


From bz2v@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU Mon Mar  6 10:38:55 EST 1995
Article: 55434 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!poe.acc.Virginia.EDU!bz2v
From: bz2v@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Boyd  Zenner)
Subject: Re: seashells in garden?
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tme9u@galen.med.Virginia.EDU  writes:
> I was wondering if poutting seashells in the garden would be a
> good way to buffer the soil instead of using lime.  LImestone
> is made from seashells isn't it?  I was thinking that seashells
> would provide a slow-release liming.  I have quite a few sea
> shells but would have to buy lime....
> 
> Any opinions?
> 
> 
> teresa
> --
>  
When I lived in the Northern Neck of Virginia I used crushed
oyster shells to emend the soil around plants like dianthus,
peonies, columbine, etc., that wouldn't be happy with an acid
soil.  Seemed to work okay.

Boyd


From jmbond@email.unc.edu Mon Mar  6 10:38:59 EST 1995
Article: 55435 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!jmbond
From: jmbond@email.unc.edu (John Bond)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Need addresses for Toro, Jacobsen, & Gravely Mowers
Date: 20 Feb 1995 21:04:18 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
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Anyone know the corporate address for Gravely, Jacobsen, and/or Toro 
lawnmowers? If you can help, I would greatly appreciate that and any 
comments on any of these mowers.

Thanks,
John
jmbond@email.unc.edu


From givers@badlands.NoDak.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:02 EST 1995
Article: 55436 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!ns1.nodak.edu!badlands!givers
From: givers@badlands.NoDak.edu (David R Givers)
Subject: Re: Jewelweed
Sender: usenet@ns1.nodak.edu (Usenet login)
Message-ID: <D46FML.pCE@ns1.nodak.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 03:42:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
References: <3h6kk4$f4p@morrow.stanford.edu> <1995Feb8.141805.5384@leo.vsla.edu>
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Bess Haile (bhaile@leo.vsla.edu) wrote:
: I have a lot of jewelweeds growing in my marsh and along the
: streams.  Last year I collected some for soneone on the net.

:  I will
: gather seeds for anyone interested in me sending them

 There are two concerns I would like folks to consider regarding the 
harvest of wild species.  Most books that (reponsibly IMO) promote native 
species propogation caution against gathering from  wild populations on 
general principles of conservation.  Most/many ecologists will also 
caution shipping or transfering species outside their own ecotype or 
phenotype.  In other words there is some concern for human activity 
altering natural selection of what should be wild populations.

Human population is after all at 5 billion and growing. Mother Earth 
could use some breathing space, dear netters.



From givers@badlands.NoDak.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:03 EST 1995
Article: 55437 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!ns1.nodak.edu!badlands!givers
From: givers@badlands.NoDak.edu (David R Givers)
Subject: Re: (long!) Are we loving native plants to death?
Sender: usenet@ns1.nodak.edu (Usenet login)
Message-ID: <D46Gu3.IMC@ns1.nodak.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 04:08:27 GMT
References: <1995Feb9.164430.38429@cobra.uni.edu> <3he9dm$naa@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <3hff4r$4ab@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
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Christine Owens (cowens@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: I am going to present a totally heretical viewpoint here.  One
: on which I have not decided myself, yet; but it does need to be
: entered into any discussion of preservation:

: At any point in the history of the earth, one could take a
: "snapshot" of plant life on a particular piece of ground.
: Several thousand years later, a similar "snapshot" 
: ****would***
: reveal a completely different set of flora, even without the
: intervention of man. 

 Would is a strong word here.  The Redwoods, all things being equal 
(absent human intervention and change of climate) would continue to exist 
as they  have.  

: Therefore, to attempt to preserve a specific mix of flora, just
: because it was the one present at the time the settlers arrived in
: America, is actually going against the grain of natural development. 

Sorry but I do not understand this statement when I process it using  my  
albeit limited  knowledge of natural selection.   First of all the reason 
that the native ecosystem was here at the dawn of european enlightenment 
of this continent is precisely because of natural selection, natural 
succession, and adaptation.


: Actually, if your real concern is genetic diversity,
: the best solution would be to collect seed of a given
: plant from as many different sites as possible, and plant
: an entire field of the stuff.  Allow it to cross-pollinate
: for a few years, collecting all the seed you can.  Then,
: plant this seed in widely separated small plots under as
: many different climatic / soil conditions as you can.  This
: will select for survivors in a lot of different environments, 
: and enhance genetic diversity in the seed.

This is not genetic diversity your are prescribing but hybridization.

: We do the same thing with animals all the time.  In fact,
: I made my living for a number of years creating re-segregated
: inbred lines of mice.  The resulting strains were highly
: genetically diverse, and very much healthier than the
: parent strains.

Right.  And no doubt these genetically superior hybrids could survive in 
the wild.  Sorry about the sarcasim here.  What I see with so many people 
who are people oriented compared to ecosphere oriented is a hubris that 
we can manipulate the world with no consequence.  I personally doubt that 
we can do that.  Too many people assume (IMO) that what we can do with 
agriculture/horticulture to support ourselves can be grafted onto natural 
ecosystems. I doubt that too.


From givers@badlands.NoDak.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:04 EST 1995
Article: 55438 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!ns1.nodak.edu!badlands!givers
From: givers@badlands.NoDak.edu (David R Givers)
Subject: Re: (long!) Are we loving native plants to death?
Sender: usenet@ns1.nodak.edu (Usenet login)
Message-ID: <D46HyB.Fto@ns1.nodak.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 04:32:35 GMT
References: <1995Feb9.164430.38429@cobra.uni.edu> <3he9dm$naa@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Robert C. Vaiden (rcvaiden@prairienet.org) wrote:


: It's something that really tears at you!  We (myself and friends
: here) anguish about that all the time.  Some folks collect just
: within the county (although that's an artificial construction)
: while others may use a (somewhat) arbitrary  distance.  We try
: to collect locally, but since we have the opportunity to plant
: fairly large plots at once (I manage a prairie reconstruction
: project in a local city park....we're at 20 acres now, going
: to 50 acres in the next couple years) we do purchase seed from
: further away.  Ideally, we would collect everything locally,
: but....

: 1. necessities of the situation require we plant faster than
:    we could acquire local seed....and

Please tell me who is this necessity that he/she requires quick results 
in prairie restoration?  Maybe I can suggest some books that tell us that 
50 years is only the first step on the path.  In the mean time maybe 
necessity could read some poetry :-)

 : 2. seed may just not be available (and what's available may
: be protected and hard to acquire!!)

Does the _hard to acquire_  part, necessitate that you risk the remaining 
gene pool to reach your own goals?

snip

: ...also on the subject of genetic variation...part of the
: problem there is the "pool" is already small.  There are
: only 4 sites left (maybe!) where silene regia (Royal
: Catchfly) is still found...no matter what seeds I use, 
: there's not going to be much genetic variation left.


*Maybe* the solution is to first of all convince people to declare the 
remaining four sites heritage centers.  It can be done.

: anyway..you're right....one needs to carefully think out the
: situation...particularly where you're trying to restore a
: site that's still somewhat a prairie.  Where you're trying
: to "build" a new prairie (out of a cornfield in our case),
: I think (hope) that one can be a little more liberal in 
: choice of seed.

I am less convinced for reasons I stated.  I hope you are right.

: there in a few years!.  I don't think it's a losing battle...
: but it's certainly a frustrating one!!!!!!

In my own small way I have been there too.  Frustrating yes. And it only 
promises to get worse, before it gets better, given the current political 
climate.

best wishes
david givers



From lnthomson@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:05 EST 1995
Article: 55439 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: lnthomson@aol.com (LnThomson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Looking for "Spirit of Glasnost" rose
Date: 18 Feb 1995 09:26:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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You might check with rec.gardens.roses.  Someone will probably know.

Lynn


From pschwal@orion.it.luc.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:07 EST 1995
Article: 55440 of rec.gardens
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From: pschwal@orion.it.luc.edu (Patty Schwalm)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: using crocks for patio containers
Date: 16 Feb 1995 02:08:57 GMT
Organization: Loyola University of Chicago
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Paula M Craft (peebee@selway.umt.edu) wrote:
: I got some large crocks at an auction a few years back and I've been 
: using them for patio plants but I have some problems.  

Lucky you, Paula! I'm an antique dealer and a gardener and have
dozens of crocks (all sizes) I use as containers.

Drainage is the main problem (the crocks will *aways* weigh a lot).

I put my plants in those large black plastic containers new
tree/shrubs come in (they have drainage holes in the bottom).
Only enough gravel to keep the drainage holes from leaking *all*
of the soil out (or some mulch; gravel for drainage is overrated).

I ease the plant/plastic container inside the crock,

 *important points*
with a brick or two in the bottom of the crock to elevate it off
the bottom, AND a large saucer of some sort (pottery or tupperware)
under the plastic container to keep some of the overflow water
in the pot plastic container, just as you would with smaller
houseplants.

Now, if you get a lot of rain, you will have to pull the plant
out of the crock and empty it (a pain in the *ss). But if you 
just get a small amount of rain, the brick should keep the container 
elevated enough to prevent becoming oversaturated by being immersed.

In the winter, you can pull the plants/plastic containers inside, 
if you want to maintain them. Be *sure* not to leave the crocks
out in freezing weather (plants are replaceable, but the
crocks will crack, or even explode, under the right 
circumstances of freezing/thawing with water inside).

"double potting" (?) is the basic concept. Great for maintaining
fertizer/water. I've won ribbons for my roses grown in crocks.

Patty, who up until recently had a tiny garden.
*Now* I've got 10 acres  <grin>


From clnichols@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:08 EST 1995
Article: 55441 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: clnichols@aol.com (CLNichols)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Robins!
Date: 18 Feb 1995 09:36:08 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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One year (last year or the one before) I had a robin live at my house all
winter (Indianapolis).  It perched itself in my hawthorne tree and ate
berries for a living.  Usually the robins pick this tree clean before
winter sets in but fortunately for this lone robin they left it alone that
year so it had its own personal food supply.

Cindy


From koob@uhunix4.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:09 EST 1995
Article: 55442 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: koob@uhunix4.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gregory Koob)
Subject: Re: Is there a tissue culture expert in the house?
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Lynsey Gedye (lynx@surrey.wanganui.gen.nz) wrote:
:   Just back from crushing an african violet under the heel
:   of my sabot...

:   Pray tell, gentle netoids, is it true that tissue culture
:   of plants can be carried out at the kitchen table using care,
:   simple, household chemicals and a certain amount of expertise;
:   or is it strictly for mega-sterile lab conditions filled with
:   white-coated genius types who've never actually seen dirt?

:   Please, share your experience.

: --
: lynx@wanganui.gen.nz

Hey, I run a tissue culture lab here in Hawaii set up to propagate
endangered hawaiian plants and I work in a converted cottage, don't
even own a white coat, am hardly a genius, and have seen plenty of
dirt in my time. :P

Yes you can do tissue culture in your kitchen as you described.  Pototo
farmers in the midwest U.S. started out that way when producing disease
free plants for "seed" production.  But why do you want to.  Tissue culture
produces a lot of plants (potentially) and even when done in the kitchen
is a lot more work than taking a cutting or planting a seed.  I haven't done
it in a kitchen myself but there are references out there on the methods
and materials needed.


From LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:10 EST 1995
Article: 55443 of rec.gardens
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From: LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu (L. R. Fortney)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Robins!
Date: 20 Feb 1995 12:33:20 GMT
Organization: Physics Department, Duke Univ
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Message-ID: <LRFORTNEY-2002950735050001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu>
References: <donna_menk.216.2F44A43A@radian.com> <3i3865$cip@redstone.interpath.net> <didi.389.2F454694@mis.duke.edu>
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In article <didi.389.2F454694@mis.duke.edu>, didi@mis.duke.edu (Deborah
Pearce) wrote:

> In article <3i3865$cip@redstone.interpath.net>
jmh@anser.pdial.interpath.net (Jeanne Hinds) writes:
> 
> We've got you beat!  We have had robins for the last three weeks in
> >Raleigh, North Carolina!  I've never seen them this early before.
> 
> >+-----------------------------------------+---------------------------+
> >| Jeanne Hinds       
> 
> I know what you mean.  In my Durham, NC, yard I didn't just have one early 
> robin, I had a huge flock of robins.  Usually I see only one or two, and
never 
> this early.
> 

  I also saw a robin in Durham a couple of days ago, but I don't think it
is part of the spring migration.  When that comes through, I'll see fifty
or so birds in a day and the berries on my holly will disappear.

-- 
Lloyd Fortney ---Opinions, just opinions---


From bobp@cyberquest.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:12 EST 1995
Article: 55444 of rec.gardens
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From: bobp@cyberquest.com (I wish people would use email)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: dog repellent (non-toxic)?
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 01:05:58 GMT
Organization: Cyberquest
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References: <1995Feb5.175250.18096@sei.cmu.edu>,<3h6ahi$f8u@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com> <3h884u$rei@hammer.msfc.nasa.gov> <allyn-0702952154490001@pacts46.phys.washington.edu>
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I couldn't find the original message writer, and that's the only reason I'm 
posting.  

People in a nearby neighborhood swear by the following method:
	Fill up several old milk jugs with diluted amonia...perhaps diluted enough to 
take away any health risk.  Poke small holes in the cap and cover them.  Place 
the jugs in your yard, at the perimeter where you're being invaded.  They're 
ugly, so I'd bury them up to the neck if I were you, whoever you are!  Good 
luck!


From topsoil@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:13 EST 1995
Article: 55445 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: topsoil@aol.com (Topsoil)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Apple, Fig, Avocado and Walnut
Date: 20 Feb 1995 02:09:01 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Reply-To: topsoil@aol.com (Topsoil)
Status: O
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Howdy...

Dormant oil (there are multiple brand names, no doubt) is a relatively
common (and relatively benign) treatment for apples.  Sprayed in the
winter, it suffocates the eggs of various insect pests.  I seem to recall
that the state where I worked on an organic apple operation even allowed
dormant oil as an "organic" treatment.

I believe that avocados are self-fruitful.  However, they take a long time
to mature -- this year's flowers are next year's fruit.

Good luck,
E Johnson


From topsoil@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:14 EST 1995
Article: 55446 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: topsoil@aol.com (Topsoil)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Carnivorous plants - Help?
Date: 20 Feb 1995 02:16:53 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Hi Michael,

I haven't checked it out myself, but there is an ongoing email exchange on
carnivorous plants.  Subscribe by sending an email message to
listserv@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com, with SUB CP YourFirstName YourLastName as
the only text of the message.  Good luck!

--E Johnson


From topsoil@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:16 EST 1995
Article: 55447 of rec.gardens
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From: topsoil@aol.com (Topsoil)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Blue Gramma Grass seedheads???
Date: 20 Feb 1995 02:33:38 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Hi Nancy,

They are soft and feathery seedheads.  I started some on a section of my
parents' lawn last year.  It was sown in July, but had flowered and set
seed by the end of the growing season.  Neat stuff!

Good luck!

-- Eric Johnson


From trystsch@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:18 EST 1995
Article: 55448 of rec.gardens
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From: trystsch@aol.com (TRYSTSCH)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Water gardens/garden ponds
Date: 20 Feb 1995 02:37:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I am interested in getting info on garden ponds, water plants, outdoor
fish  care and any related subjects. Does anyone know where I can find
this sort of stuff?  Thanks,
Trysta

Trysta in Running Springs


From klapoint@teleport.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:20 EST 1995
Article: 55449 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!news.teleport.com!ip-pdx3-20.teleport.com!klapoint
From: klapoint@teleport.com (Kathleen LaPoint)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Wisconsin gardening
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 12:20:40
Organization: Teleport,Inc.
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  I am planning a move to Wisconsin this year and I need a good book to help 
me make the transition from gardening in the Pacific Northwest to the upper 
Midwest.  I love the Sunset  Western Garden Book  for its specific regional 
gardening info  - is there an equivalent book for the Midwest ?

     thanks,
     K.La Point


From Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:22 EST 1995
Article: 55450 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!NewsWatcher!user
From: Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu (Thomas Bjorkman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: POISON OAK
Date: 20 Feb 1995 14:15:15 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
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> Steven M. Begley (sbegley@voicenet.com) wrote:

> [snip] 
> : I answered someone a few weeks ago about Poison Ivy. Poison Oak is not
native 
> : to this area, however, if memory serves, Poison Ivy is Toxidendron
toxifolia, 
> : and Poison Oak is Toxidendron quecifolia. (People in the discussion about 
> : botanical names, take note: Toxideldron (self explanatory)  quercus (Oak) 
> : folia (leafed)

I'm afraid memory does not serve.
Poison oak is Toxicodendron diversilobum (T&G) Greene
Poison ivy is T. radicans (L)  Kuntze

Poison oak has also been called T. pubescens P. Mill., by Karetz and
Ghandi (Phytologia 1991), but I have not seen that name used elsewhere.

Poison ivy has some additional forms proposed by Reveal (Phytologia 1990):
Toxicodendron radicans (L.) Kuntze: 
var. pubens (Engelm. ex S. Watson) comb, nov., 
var. barkleyi (Gillis) comb. nov.,
var. negundo (E. Greene) comb.  nov.
[Basionyms includes: Rhus toxicodendron var. pubens, T. radicans ssp.
barkleyi, and T. negundo.]

It is still failry common to see the old genus Rhus used by lumpers.

-- 
Thomas Bjorkman    Dept. of Horticultural Sciences   Cornell University


From raiar@vulcan.inlink.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:24 EST 1995
Article: 55451 of rec.gardens
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From: raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: office plants?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 03:06:34 GMT
Organization: inlink
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A Janet Craig Dracaena will survive and give a good showing...  Gary

Michel Lacroix (mlacroi@CAM.ORG) wrote:
: In article <3hk81h$h61@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> a013777t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Troy Taylor) writes:
: >From: a013777t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Troy Taylor)
: >Subject: office plants?
: >Date: 12 Feb 1995 00:58:09 -0500

: >Can anyone suggest plants other than philladendrum that can thrive 
: >without sunlight in an office environment with only flourescent lighting?
: >-- 

: >Troy Taylor
: >a013777t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us




From raiar@vulcan.inlink.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:25 EST 1995
Article: 55452 of rec.gardens
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From: raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: office plants?
Date: 19 Feb 1995 03:08:11 GMT
Organization: inlink
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Michel Lacroix (mlacroi@CAM.ORG) wrote:
: In article <3hk81h$h61@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> a013777t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Troy Taylor) writes:
: >From: a013777t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Troy Taylor)
: >Subject: office plants?
: >Date: 12 Feb 1995 00:58:09 -0500

: >Can anyone suggest plants other than philladendrum that can thrive 
: >without sunlight in an office environment with only flourescent lighting?
: >-- 

: >Troy Taylor
: >a013777t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us

A Janet Craig Dracaena will do very well and give a good showing with very
little care.   Gary



From raiar@vulcan.inlink.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:27 EST 1995
Article: 55453 of rec.gardens
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From: raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What is a weed
Date: 19 Feb 1995 03:10:45 GMT
Organization: inlink
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3i6crl$7vn@thor.inlink.com>
References: <9501312116591.The_Win-D.jfsanders@delphi.com> <1995Feb2.172337.21778@leo.vsla.edu> <warden-0702951118370001@fonebone.patnet.caltech.edu> <3hap56$rgo@prop.wes.army.mil> <Pine.A32.3.91c.950215210951.14543A-100000@homer05.u.washington.edu>
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Karen Russell (russe@u.washington.edu) wrote:

: And somebody else whose name I don't recall said, A weed is a plant that 
: has mastered every trick of survival except growing in rows.
: Karen

: On 8 Feb 1995, Harry Boswell wrote:

: > I think it was Whitman who said "A weed is a plant whose virtues have not 
: > yet been discovered"
: > 
: > --
: > Harry Boswell                 hboswell@ICchip.wes.army.mil  
: > Information Technology Laboratory
: > U.S. Army Corps of Engineers        Vicksburg, MS
: > 
A weed is any plant, beneficial or not, growing in a place where you don't
want it...  simple as that....
:: > 


From raiar@vulcan.inlink.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:29 EST 1995
Article: 55454 of rec.gardens
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From: raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: net-legislation
Date: 19 Feb 1995 03:11:36 GMT
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Lines: 14
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References: <1995Feb16.051949.5875@sangam.ncst.ernet.in>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vulcan.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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Sanjeev - UPL -Bonet (upll@soochak.ncst.ernet.in) wrote:


: --

: ============================================================================
: Sanjeev Trivedi         UNIPHOS HOUSE      Tel: +91-22-6041111
:                         C.D. MARG          Fax: +91-22-6041010
: Corporate Manager       Khar(W),           
: United Phosphorus Ltd   Bombay-400052      sanjeev@mcimail.com
: 			INDIA.		   upll@soochak.ncst.ernet.in

A weed is any plant, beneficial or not, growing where you don't want it...
: ============================================================================


From raiar@vulcan.inlink.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:30 EST 1995
Article: 55455 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!thor.inlink.com!vulcan.inlink.com!raiar
From: raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: hydroponics
Date: 19 Feb 1995 12:24:18 GMT
Organization: inlink
Lines: 15
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <3i7d9i$ak4@thor.inlink.com>
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Terry L. Harvey (tlharvey@omnifest.uwm.edu) wrote:
: My daughter is doing a science project on HYDROPONICS.  If anyone has any
: information or any idea where I might find info, please email me.

: Thank you.

: tlharvey@omnifest.uwm.edu

Hi Terry
Need specifics, 
Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr., Chief Olericulturist
EcoTeck Hydroculture
raiar@inlink.com




From thoren@aristotle.se Mon Mar  6 10:39:32 EST 1995
Article: 55456 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!seunet!news2.swip.net!aristotle.algonet.se!usenet
From: Martin Thoren <thoren@aristotle.se>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Worm composting help needed
Date: 20 Feb 1995 14:28:19 GMT
Organization: AlgoNet Public Access Node, Stockholm
Lines: 29
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References: <3halvo$50q@crl5.crl.com>
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watkins@crl.com (Anna Watkins) wrote:
>
> Nothing I've read about vermicomposting tells me what do do when things 
> go really wrong (maybe I'm the only one who messes it up??!)
> 
> My worm bin smells really gross -- like sewage and ammonia.  I suspect my 
> worms have died (what a bad mom I am).  What have I done -- did I not 
> drain it often enough, or remove finished compost enough?  Also, I am 
> having a problem with fruit flies (I've never seen really mature fruit 
> flies before, so at least I've learned something!)
> 
> Can anyone help me with this?  To fix it, will I have to totally clean it 
> out and start again?
> 
> Can I use the finished compost (even though it smells wrong) or will it 
> hurt my plants?
> 

Well, I have had the same problem, The smell is caused by to little oxygen
When the organic stuff decomposes it will need oxygen, just like a fire. 
But when there is no oxygen the bacterias and stuff that decompses it will 
decomposes the stuff in another way, creating H2S (dihyrdogensulfid). 
The smell is easy avoided by mixing the composed with something that will
let the oxygen slip through.
I don't know weather or not the worms are alive, H2S is poisionus
to most living organisms 

Good luck!!!



From Polikoff@razorbill.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:33 EST 1995
Article: 55457 of rec.gardens
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From: Polikoff@razorbill.com (Arnold Polikoff)
Reply-To: Polikoff@razorbill.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: witch hazel
Date: 18 Feb 1995 16:00:44 GMT
Message-ID: <446431.9385906@razorbill.com>
Organization: Razorbill Systems
Lines: 2
Status: O
X-Status: 

My witch hazel in Central MA blooms in February. My question is Are there any
insects at that time to polinate the blossoms?


From Polikoff@razorbill.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:35 EST 1995
Article: 55458 of rec.gardens
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From: Polikoff@razorbill.com (Arnold Polikoff)
Reply-To: Polikoff@razorbill.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: tomatoes in container? How deep?
Date: 18 Feb 1995 16:01:53 GMT
Message-ID: <790953950.9385920@razorbill.com>
Organization: Razorbill Systems
Lines: 2
Status: O
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When tomatos are planted in a garden the roots go down about 14 feet. YES
fourteen feet.


From jgray@term2.cnde.iastate.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:37 EST 1995
Article: 55459 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!term2.cnde.iastate.edu!jgray
From: jgray@term2.cnde.iastate.edu (Joe Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: gentiana germination
Date: 20 Feb 1995 14:25:04 GMT
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  I have tried for the last several years to grow Gentiana from 
seed and have not been able to get it to germinate. I have
some seed, which I believe to be fresh and which I have had
in the fridge for two months. The seed is G. angustifolia and
G. asclepiadea.  In the past I have started gentiana in peat pots 
with a soiless mix.  They are kept moist with a cover lid to keep 
the humidity up. Has anyone been able to get Gentiana to grow from 
seed?  Is there any special steps that need to be followed?

Joe Gray
jgray@cnde.iastate.edu


From defurst@u.washington.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:38 EST 1995
Article: 55460 of rec.gardens
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From: defurst@u.washington.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Botanical Software???
Date: 18 Feb 1995 16:54:34 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <3i58oa$af9@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
References: <grumbo.171.00359EBE@niagara.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Status: O
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I believe the new and soon-to-be-released DCROM version of Sunset's 
Garden Book meets most if not all of your criteria, however it covers 
plants most suitable for the US West. 

In addition, I have found these products, looking since ~August/94:

     Hort-A-Sort ($69.95) from Birdbrain Software easily wins the 
silliest name award, but its 2,000 plant encyclopedia shows an 
intelligent mind under the humor. Hort-A-Sort is divided into nine 
databases, but they seem more logical than Flower Finder's three -- 
flowering plants, for example, are lumped together, with separate 
categories for cacti and succulents, alpine and rock plants, herbs and 
everlastings, etc. No plants can be added, and the biggest drawback is 
you can only search by one criterion at a time. This is laborious (and 
searches are slow even in the small-sized demo version I reviewed), but 
help menus are onscreen to list choices. Herb information was especially 
good, and there are plant sources for all entries.
Hort-A-Sort
Birdbrain Software
S74 W20800 Field Dr.
Muskego, WI 53150

===

     Plant-finder programs are enormously useful, integrating lots of 
encyclopedic information, a definite advantage over paging through 
scattered books and catalogs, and good systems make searches fast and 
efficient. The Cadillac of the plant-finders is Hortis Opis ($250). Only 
Volume I is available, with 5,000 trees, shrubs, vines, bamboos and 
grasses. Complete with cultivars and vendor sources, it's a computerized 
catalog. (Unfortunately, Volume II -- annuals, perennials, bulbs, roses, 
ferns -- may be awhile, and vegetables aren't even planned.) Easy and 
well designed, Hortis Opis has 18 search criteria with pop-up help menus, 
a gratifying feature. Plant information is meticulous and exhaustive, 
with a pop-up journal for notes. If you could add plants to this 
magnificent encyclopedia, Hortis Opis would be perfect.  
Hortis Opis
J. Mendoza Gardens
18 E. 16th St.
New York City, NY 10003
212-989-4253

*************

If you receive other inforomation directly, would you repost it or 
forward it to me as well? Thanx.

In article <grumbo.171.00359EBE@niagara.com>,
Grahame Rumsby <grumbo@niagara.com> wrote:
>Does anyone know of either CD or regular software that has photos, 
>descriptions, latin as well as common plant names that are searchable and able 
>to be cross referenced???
>Have been looking 4 some time but not 2 lucky as of yet..
>
>Thanx,
>
>Grahame




From flyinggoat@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:39 EST 1995
Article: 55461 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: flyinggoat@aol.com (Flyinggoat)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: "bare root" blackberries arrived yesterday
Date: 18 Feb 1995 12:02:08 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 15
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Reply-To: flyinggoat@aol.com (Flyinggoat)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
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Hi! 
I'm just south of you in Mountain View. 
    Put them in a bucket of water immediatly, to help them recover from
the shock of shipping.   DON"T let them dry out.  Certain death!
    AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, go out and dig the hole where you are going to
put them.   I usually take the sawdust in the bag with the roots and mix
it with the soil I've just dug out for some free mulch/compost.  Fertize
with whatever you want, following directions.  Get those plants into the
ground as soon as possible!  We're almost past bare-root season in the Bay
Area.                 .     I'm still waiting for my back-east berries to
be shipped, and I'm worried I'll miss the best dates, and that they'll
start sprouting in the mail once they hit warm California weather.

Betty Cunningham(Flyinggoat@aol.com)
illustrator, animator, and likes to collect dead things


From cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:39:40 EST 1995
Article: 55462 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk (Gary Cooper)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!peernews.demon.co.uk!wordshop.demon.co.uk!Cooper
Subject: Re: Using Epsom salts in in plant soil?
References: <robinson.793067405@ichips.intel.com>
Organization: Wordshop
Reply-To: cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk
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In article <robinson.793067405@ichips.intel.com>
           robinson@ichips.intel.com "David Lyle Robinson" writes:

> I recently looked at a booklett written by Jerry Baker
> that suggests using epsom salts as a spring soil preparation.
> It even suggests using it in potting soil for starting
> transplants.  In other places, the booklett suggests using
> dish soap and instant tea as a fertilizer.
> 
> Has anyone ever heard of this, and if so what is in
> these that makes it work?  Sounds like a bunch of
> unfounded hocus-pocus claims to me, but I'm open
> to learning new tricks.

Epsom salts are no problem at all - in fact they're magnesium sulphate
which ends-up as magnesium, as far as your plants are concerned. 
Magnesium deficiencies are quite common and certain plants (roses, 
tomatoes and chrysanthemums for example) are particularly prone to 
this.

I'd suggest, however, that this author is simply wrong in suggesting
that it be used universally. It's normally included in sufficient
quantities in commercially prepared potting mixtures and is present in
all good compound fertilisers, including seed-starting and potting
bases. I can't see why he really thinks it is necessary unless you have 
a proven Mg deficiency.

Meanwhile, I haven't a *clue* what he thinks is in instant tea 
(being English, the very notion of it makes me shudder <g>) and I am
highly suspicious of "dish soap". My *guess* would be that 
he might be suggesting soap as a form of wetting agent, but,
even then, I find it hard to believe it would be the best choice.

Hope that's some help,

-- 
Gary Cooper


From uskmg@unix.cc.emory.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:42 EST 1995
Article: 55463 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!emory!news.cc.emory.edu!uskmg
From: uskmg@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (Ken Guyton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: McCaslin Pole Beans
Date: 18 Feb 1995 17:25:00 GMT
Organization: Emory University Information Technology Division
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Reply-To: uskmg@unix.cc.emory.edu
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I am looking for [McCaslin] pole bean seeds (I am not sure of the
spelling).  Can anyone point me toward information or a source (of
seeds)?  In years past one could order/buy them from the Hastings Seed
Company in Atlanta but apparently not any more.

Email responses would be greatly appreciated.  I will summarize them
to the list.

--
Ken Guyton, Emory University    | PREFERRED:  uskmg@unix.cc.emory.edu
Information Technology Division | UUCP:      ...gatech!emoryu1!uskmg
Atlanta, GA 30322               | NON-DOMAIN BITNET:   uskmg@emoryu1
Phone: (404) 727-7685           | FAX:  (404) 727-2599


From appleby@alcoa.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:43 EST 1995
Article: 55464 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!jmf-amct.atc.alcoa.com!eja-amct.atc.alcoa.com!user
From: appleby@alcoa.com (E. J. Appleby)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mac Software
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 12:06:48 -0500
Organization: Alcoa Technical Center
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <appleby-2002951206480001@eja-amct.atc.alcoa.com>
References: <3i3stv$cmu@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3i3stv$cmu@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, augustine9@aol.com
(Augustine9) wrote:

> I am interested in gardening software for the Mac.  The only one I have
> seen is "Flowerscape." Can anyone review this for me?  Are there other
> quality programs available?  Thanks
> 
> Ley Brown

There is an excellent review of Flowerscape on the World Wide Web.  It can
be accessed directly by using MacWeb and going to the URL:
http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/fsca.  For some reason when you try to
do the same thing using Mosaic, it tells you that it cannot find the URL. 
However you can still get there by going to the parent directory
http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden, which presents you with an index from
which you can choose fscape1.htm for the illustrated version of the review
or fscape2.htm for the text only version.  Enjoy.


From jwalker@InforMNs.k12.MN.US Mon Mar  6 10:39:44 EST 1995
Article: 55465 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!mr.net!InforMNs.k12.MN.us!NewsWatcher!user
From: jwalker@InforMNs.k12.MN.US (Janine Dahms Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Column on net gardening
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 17 Feb 1995 16:45:29 GMT
Organization: Internet for Minnesota Schools Project
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <jwalker-170295104352@199.86.65.2>
References: <3hvtsb$69g@grape.epix.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stc1-2.nas.mr.net
Status: O
X-Status: 

> I am writing a newspaper piece on garden resources on the net.
Blake- When you finish your article, why not post it here as a resource? 
Just a thought.  Janine


From pat@kiwi.sdsu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:45 EST 1995
Article: 55466 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!kiwi!pat
From: pat@kiwi.sdsu.edu (Pat)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Robins!
Date: 17 Feb 1995 17:10:24 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3i2la2$ltn@pandora.sdsu.edu>
References: <donna_menk.216.2F44A43A@radian.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kiwi.sdsu.edu
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Menk, Donna (donna_menk@radian.com) wrote:
: Spring can't be too far behind--my front yard has been full of robins
: this week! (I'm in Austin, Texas.)

: Donna

I remember what Robins look like.  Red breast, right?

-pat (looking for Robins in all the wrong places)
pat@kiwi.sdsu.edu




From bgreen1229@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:49 EST 1995
Article: 55467 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: bgreen1229@aol.com (BGreen1229)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: use of dormant sprays on fruit trees
Date: 20 Feb 1995 00:29:38 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 12
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since i recently learned that i've missed the time for dormant sprays, if
i do have problems with insects, mites, etc; what should i do, esp. if i
prefer not using potentially harmful insecticides.   thanks               
                                            bert
  









From herbgrow@pipeline.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:50 EST 1995
Article: 55468 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail
From: herbgrow@pipeline.com (Wendy Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Rooting Geraniums
Date: 20 Feb 1995 12:19:07 -0500
Organization: The Pipeline
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <3iaiub$rn0@pipe2.pipeline.com>
References: <3i8rb5$3g7@smarty.smart.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pipe2.pipeline.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In rec.gardens kovler@smart.net (Ken Kovler) said: 
>I have 5 Geranium plants that I brought indoors in Fall 1994.  They are  
>growing very well indoors.  However, I now would like to grow additional  
>Geranium plants from cuttings of these plants.  Does anyone know how to
root 
>Geranium plants from already established plants to be planted outdoors  
>in Spring 1995? 
 
Geranium cuttings root very easily.  
 
Cut 4 inch pieces from fairly new growth just below a leaf node 
and strip off the bottom leaves. let these cuttings sit in a 
cool place out of direct sun overnight so that the scars on the 
stem form a calluses. Plant about half way deep in sandy soil  
and keep moist until new roots form from the calloused scars. 
 
Some people don't bother with letting the calluses form. It is 
possible to just clip off a stem, stick it in soil and let it 
grow, but you should get more consistent results by letting the 
stems sit overnight. 
 
Try it both ways and experiment. With 5 plants you should get 
plenty of cuttings. 
 
Good luck and have fun. 
- 
Wendy                  |Free email herb plant & 
Harbor View Garden Co. |seed catalog available  
Herbgrow@pipeline.com  |Harbor@pipeline.com 


From mfrost@primenet.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:51 EST 1995
Article: 55469 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!gmi!msunews!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip021.lax.primenet.com!mfrost
From: mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Effect of Climate-Lavender Blooms
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 08:06:29 PST
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <mfrost.293.001BEC67@primenet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip021.lax.primenet.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4]
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi,
I have lavender (angustifolium cv) plants in So Cal. which typically have 
blooms of a light bluish cast, but this year, after an unusual abundance of 
rain, the first blooms have the deeper purplish colour that appears in 
pictures of lavender. I had been looking longingly at the purples in a british 
gardening mag, and went outside to critique mine. No squinting was needed to 
*see* purple. Does this mean lavender responds to watering more positively? I 
have been conservative in watering, and have excellent drainage.The plants 
thrive and have a long bloom season. I realize different cvs would have 
degrees of colour but this surprised me. Also, the cuttings that I took from 
the older plant have even deeper shades. Is this a way to decide on which 
branches to select?

Regards, Martha
mfrost@primenet.com


From raph@panache.demon.co.uk Mon Mar  6 10:39:53 EST 1995
Article: 55470 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: uk.events,rec.gardens,uk.misc
From: raph@panache.demon.co.uk (Raphael Mankin)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!panache.demon.co.uk!raph
Subject: Re: Seeking Garden Tours in England
References: <3i02d1$o1e@panix.com>
Organization: Maps for the Million
Reply-To: raph@panache.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27
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Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 18:55:18 +0000
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3i02d1$o1e@panix.com> csddept@panix.com "Dana Rachlin" writes:

> We are looking for information on garden tours in England for this coming 
> spring (April & May). Any suggestions, contacts would be wonderful. 
> 
Get the National Trust book of gardens open to the public. 

-- 
Raphael Mankin		Resolute (adj): Obstinate in a course of which we 
					approve.
			Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary


From ruthann@mitre.org Mon Mar  6 10:39:54 EST 1995
Article: 55471 of rec.gardens
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From: ruthann@mitre.org (Ruth Ann Brasie Valentine)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: GRASSES
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 17 Feb 1995 15:53:31 GMT
Organization: MITRE
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Message-ID: <ruthann-170295105150@brasie.mitre.org>
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I am on my town's local conservation commission.  Does anyone have a source
for grasses that would be appropriate for wetland re-seeding? 

We were talking about a non-clumping kind of grass.  Someone thought there
was a catalog place in wisconsin that carries such grass seed.

Please e-mail as I cannot regularly read the net.

Thanks,  RA

-- 
All opinions and ideas were generated independently by me. 


From defurst@u.washington.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:55 EST 1995
Article: 55472 of rec.gardens
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From: defurst@u.washington.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Trellis/Support:  if not PT wood, what else?
Date: 17 Feb 1995 18:22:44 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 24
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In article <3i2gfp$4dd@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com>,
Amy Moseley Rupp <amy@michael.austin.mcd.mot.com> wrote:
>I've been following the PT wood thread, because I've two climbing
>roses and plan for more vines into the spring and summer.  If you
>don't use PT wood, what do you use?
>
>I saw some cedar lattice at Home Depot; it was relatively flimsy.  Would
>it hold up?  Do you nail it directly to the fence?  The fence itself is
>pressure-treated; if the trellis and the fence are in close proximity,
>will that cause a problem?
>
>I love the look of the wrought iron trellises, but am wondering if they
>would look silly up against a typical 6' privacy fence.
>
>Finally,  are there good mail order sources for trellising?
>
>Thanks!
>-- 
>Amy Moseley Rupp               108 Wild Basin Ste. 108, Austin, Texas 78746
>Motorola Computer Group                 FAX:  (512) 329-7131
>amy@austin.mcd.mot.com   alphanumeric pgr: (512) 933-5511, pgr 327117 (300 baud)
>(512) 329-7117                 digital pgr: (512) 933-7333, pgr 327117




From edrn@dlep1.itg.ti.com Mon Mar  6 10:39:57 EST 1995
Article: 55473 of rec.gardens
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From: edrn@dlep1.itg.ti.com (Lynnette)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Disaster: Novice plants seeds to save money...help !!
Date: 17 Feb 1995 18:09:55 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3i2opj$jdj@tilde.csc.ti.com>
References: <3i0nra$gma@tilde.csc.ti.com> <3i1cin$idk@news.rain.org>
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In article <3i1cin$idk@news.rain.org>, steven@rain.org () says:
>
>To start off with, where are you keeping the pots after planting the 
>seeds?  In the sun?  Shade?  How cold/warm is it?  Impatiens likes temps 
>in the upper 60s to low 70s.  

Yes, they're warm on a window sill, but I did not pre-moisten the soil. It was kinda
 wet anyway, having been in a plastic bag. I did
cover them at about 1/4". The packet instructions are so vague.  It is hard to 
keep them moist. Should I cover them in plastic wrap after I water them next ?
I've been spraying them with a water bottle, but this takes a long time. And 
they dry out after one day with just spraying them.

Copyright 1995 by
Lynnette Edrington Dallas, Tx
All rights reserved.


From XL00KAO@cpua.it.luc.edu Mon Mar  6 10:39:58 EST 1995
Article: 55474 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!apollo!cpua.it.luc.edu!XL00KAO
From: XL00KAO@cpua.it.luc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: european buckthorn
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 16:06
Organization: Loyola University of Chicago
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     I DESPISE EUROPEAN BUCKTHORN, AN INVADER THAT IS FRIGHTENINGLY
SUCCESSFUL.  I LIVE ON A FOREST PRESERVE AND IT IS ENCROACHING ON ALL
THE FOREST EDGES AROUND.  THERE IS NOW A PERIMETER OF IT AROUND MY YARD
IT HAS TENACIOUS ROOTS SO THAT EVEN A SEEDLING IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET OUT.
IT DOES PROVIDE A FOOD SOURCE FOR BIRDS AND DEER BUT THAT JUST
CONTRIBUTES TO ITS SPREAD.  I GET WHAT I CAN, BUT IT AIN'T EASY. ITS
A PROLIFIC SO AND SO.  HAS ANYONE HAD SUCCESS WITH THIS INVADER?


From pattibelle@delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:00 EST 1995
Article: 55475 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Poison Ivy/Oak FAQ
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 02:50:01 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <pW6Y0vJ.pattibelle@delphi.com>
References: <1995Feb19.203028.727@titan.sfasu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1a.delphi.com
X-To: Ron Rushing <f_rushingrg@titan.sfasu.edu>
Status: O
X-Status: 

Ron:
 
If you have any information on the use of Procardia to stop an attack of
poison oak, I'd sure appreciate it!  Also, have you heard of Domeboro?
I used it for the first time last November, but not soon enough.  The
stuff was all over my arms from cutting brush.
 
Pat in Napa, CA
(afraid to go cut brush because of poison oak possibility)


From jmbehnke@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:01 EST 1995
Article: 55476 of rec.gardens
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From: jmbehnke@aol.com (JMBehnke)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Horseradish
Date: 20 Feb 1995 14:27:47 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 4
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We accidently roto-tilled our horseradish one year and now we have
horseradish coming up everywhere.  Does anyone know a good way of
eliminating it.  Digging hasn't worked because one little piece of root
grows into a new plant.


From diane@retro.fccc.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:03 EST 1995
Article: 55477 of rec.gardens
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From: diane <diane@retro.fccc.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Pruning of apple and peach trees in PA
Date: 17 Feb 1995 18:06:40 GMT
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center
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X-XXMessage-ID: <AB6A50A41A010B4A@retro.fccc.edu>
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I am wondering how late in the winter or early in the spring I should
prune apple and peach trees.  I know that this should be done before the
sap begins to run.  Any suggestions?

Diane

Diane@retro.fccc.edu


From diane@retro.fccc.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:05 EST 1995
Article: 55478 of rec.gardens
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From: diane <diane@retro.fccc.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: growing apricot trees in PA
Date: 17 Feb 1995 18:10:25 GMT
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center
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I would like to grow apricot trees in my yard in PA.  Any suggestions on
varieties or successful propagation?
Diane
Diane@retro.fccc.edu


From rwinder@PFC.Forestry.CA Mon Mar  6 10:40:06 EST 1995
Article: 55480 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: rwinder@PFC.Forestry.CA (Richard Winder)
Subject: Re: WARNING: This Group About To Be  DELETED!!
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Organization: Forestry Canada (Pacific Forestry Centre)
References: <3hs38t$e00@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3htnj6$8is@uwm.edu> <3hts8h$4ql@news.bu.edu> <3i179c$jio@uwm.edu>,<3i3155$ip1@news.bu.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 17:46:39 GMT
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In article <3i3155$ip1@news.bu.edu>, slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey) writes:
>Jennifer Fruhbauer (fruhbaur@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu) wrote:
>: Sherry Bailey (slbailey@bu.edu) wrote:
>: : IF PEOPLE WOULD LEARN TO SCREEN SUBJECT LINES WITH THEIR NEWSREADERS, THE
>: : NUMBER OF POSTS PER DAY (which is the ONLY motivation for splitting I have
>: : seen) BECOMES IRRELEVANT.
>
>: BUT IT IS A PAIN IN THE ARSE TO DO SO 
>
>To YOU.  I do it every day in a dozen newsgroups, including this one, and *I*
>think it's easy. Why do you expect the rest of us to modify the newsgroup for
>YOUR comfort?

I'm afraid I agree with Sherry here.  It is much more painless to skim through
a directory of article titles than to plow through every day's batch of
articles.  For my reader, it is straightforward (help can be handy command!).
I suspect most readers have this capability, if people would take the time to
learn how to do it.  With participation in the networks steadily increasing, 
people will have to change the way that they view some newsgroups and 
participate in them- to me, this group is kind of like a gardening magazine-
you pick the topics that are of interest to you, and pass over the rest.  If 
a significant body of people all want to connect with each other, lists get 
started.  If traffic on the list gets out of hand, then you start to see a 
push for a real group.	-RSW

  RICHARD WINDER                    Title: Research Scientist
  Canadian Forest Service           Phone: (604) 363-0773
  Victoria, B.C.                    Internet: RWINDER@A1.PFC.Forestry.CA


From sfo@bu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:08 EST 1995
Article: 55481 of rec.gardens
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From: sfo@bu.edu (Samme Orwig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Water gardens/garden ponds
Date: 21 Feb 1995 00:03:53 GMT
Organization: Boston University
Lines: 15
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Status: O
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Isn't the new usenet group called
rec.ponds
or
rec.gardens.ponds?
It splintered off from rec.gardens
a couple of months ago.


TRYSTSCH (trystsch@aol.com) wrote:
: I am interested in getting info on garden ponds, water plants, outdoor
: fish  care and any related subjects. Does anyone know where I can find
: this sort of stuff?  Thanks,
: Trysta

: Trysta in Running Springs


From russe@u.washington.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:09 EST 1995
Article: 55482 of rec.gardens
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From: Karen Russell <russe@u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: dog repellent (non-toxic)?
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 13:30:08 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 55
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On Sat, 18 Feb 1995, Steven M. Begley wrote:

> In article <95021312503442@ccsalpha1.nrl.navy.mil> nrl6001@ccsalpha1.nrl.navy.MIL writes:
> >From: nrl6001@ccsalpha1.nrl.navy.MIL
> >Subject: Re: dog repellent (non-toxic)?
> >Date: 13 Feb 1995 18:00:33 -0000
> 
> >Nisheeth Agrawal (agrawal@gracie) writes:
> 
> >>  ...a neighbor...walks her dog without leash and
> >>  lets the bitch go in my front lawn
> 

PLEASE talk to your neighbor first.  Excrement is embarassing and chances 
are she will at least keep her dog out of _your_ yard.  People are 
basically non-confrontational (witness the original poster talking to us 
instead of the neighbor ;)) and if you talk to her in a 
non-confrontational way, she has no reason to escalate.  What is she 
going to say,  "My dog can crap anywhere and I don't have to pick it up?"
We have an otherwise wonderful offending neighbor and we don't say 
anything because it's not egregious and we're not confrontational (we 
meaning the surrounding neighbors who have discussed it amongst 
themselves).  We have a new neighbor who immediately called animal 
control on the offending neighbor's dog and the health department on the 
compost pile.  We HATE the whistleblower.  We might not notice if his 
house was on fire.  (He also threatened to 
shoot this dog to the offending neighbor's 12 year old daughter.)  So, 
deal with your neighbor personally. 
Karen

> 
> If you do decide to confront the neigbor, I suggest you first call the cops 
> and file a complaint. They may talk to the neigbor on your behalf, and they 
> may not. If they don't, complain again, and again. Even if the cops don't do 
> anything, they will have a record of your complaint(s). You keep a record 
> also. Photos are a great idea, too. 
> 
> With a record of complaints, and some photos, you have several options:
> You can seek leagal relief through the local courts (see below) or you can 
> first confront the neigbor, but do it carefully. DO NOT MAKE ANY THREATS!!!!
> 
> If the situation doesn't improve, go down to the local Magistrate, Justice of 
> the Peace, or whatever you call the centurions in your area, and ask for a 
> restraining order. Then, the next time it happens, the neigbor will be in 
> contempt of court. And then the REAL fun can start! Judges don't like people 
> who ignore court orders.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Steven
> 
> 



From fruhbaur@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:11 EST 1995
Article: 56244 of rec.gardens
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From: fruhbaur@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Jennifer Fruhbauer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.arts.bonsai,alt.bonsai,sci.aquaria
Subject: READ RE: rec.plants.*
Date: 27 Feb 1995 03:45:49 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.169.1
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I am re-posting the RFD by R. J. Sexton:  Please note that it states that
all follow-up discussion is to be held in new.groups.  Whether you agree or
disagree with the proposal, YOU SHOULD BE POSTING ALL REPLIES/DISCUSSIONS TO
news.groups, this way, all groups involved (see below) will be able to
follow the discussion.  

So please, keep all of your replies where they belong, in news.groups.

Note:  I did not post to all the groups involved (I excluded rec.ponds, 
rec.gardens.orchids, alt.aquaria, rec.aquaria, bionet.plants, and 
rec.gardens.roses) because after subscribing to these I found that there was
no follow-up discussions on the proposed re-organization.)

Jennifer Fruhbauer
fruhbaur@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
*******

Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.gardens,
rec.arts.bonsai,alt.bonsai,rec.gardens.orchids,rec.gardens.roses
Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.plants.*
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:23:30 -0500

                 Request for Discussion: rec.plants.*
Proposal for a newsgroups reorganization of plant specific newsgroups

by: Richard J. Sexton (richard@panchax.gryphon.com)
---------------------------------------------------

GROUPS AFFECTED:

rec.gardens
rec.gardens.roses
rec.gardens.orchids
rec.arts.bonsai
*.aquaria
bionet.plants


INTRODUCTION

Currently, the top level hierarchy for most things plant related on
usenet is rec.gardens.

This probably made sense back when rec.gardens was created, becuse in
that timeframe most newsgruops on usenet were computer related and
non computer groups took rather a back seat. Usenet has grown (sic)
however, and this is no longer the case. As such, lumping everything
plant related under rec.gardens does not make sense in many cases,
especially when one considers possible future plant-related newsgroups.


JUSTIFICATION:

Many newsgroups that could not have existed back when rec.gardens
was created (.orchids, .bonsai) are currently successful newgroups,
yet they are classified under rec.gardens. Although this is not
completely inappropriate, it does not scale well, since gardens
is a subset of plants, not vice versa. One scarcly has a "garden"
or orchids - one has a collection. One does not "garden" houseplants,
nor does one "garden" bonsai.

Future possible groups include ones for Bromeliads, Gesenerids and
carniverous plants, as all have successfull mailing lists, and it's
only a matter of time until they will be newsgroups. These are
not best classified under rec.gardens.

If we follow the International Committee on Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN)
model for biological taxonomy, in spirit, but not in letter, then the
higher levels of newsgroups classification should be broad sweeping
classification. Rec.gardens is not, and following the idea set
by the rec.animals.* reorganization, I feel it is time to re-examine
the taxonomy of plant groups on usenet.


PROPOSED CLASSIFICATION:

I believe usenet would be well served by establishing a rec.plants
hierarchy, and below I outline both current and future groups and
how they would fit into this proposed hierarchy, (not that current
existing groups are denoted with an asterisk ("*"):

rec.plants			Hierarchy, not a group.
rec.plants.misc			Miscellaneous discussion, not fitting elsewhere
rec.plants.orchids*		(=rec.gardens.orchids) Orchids
rec.plants.bonsai*		(=rec.arts.bonsai) Little trees (and in my case, kindling)
rec.plants.indoors		Houseplants. Expected RSN
rec.plants.aquatic		? (Instead of the proposed rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants)
rec.plants.gardens*		(=rec.gardens)
rec.plants.rhododendrons	Also expected RSN
rec.plants.roses*		(=rec.gardens.roses)
rec.plants.gesenerids		From mailing list
rec.plants.bromeliads		From mailing list
rec.plants.carniverous		From mailing list

Note that rec.gardens may not fit well under this hierarchy, as issues of
composting and design of gardens are not plant related topics per se. Perhaps
consideration should be given to renaming rec.gardens to rec.gardening,
or rec.plants.gardening.

I have resisted the urge to classify the above groups, although tempting
as "indoor" or "outdoor", because that implies a geographical bias which
is best avioded.


NOTE

This RFD is being issued in concordance with the guidelines set in the
"How to create a new usenet newsgroup" FAQ regularly posted to
news.announce.newgroups. Please refer to this article if you have any
questions about the newsgroup creation.

Unless the discussion indicated a need to resubmit a new RFD, the CFV will
be posted approximately three to four weeks after the posting of this RFD.

Discussion about this RFD will take place in news.groups only.

This RFD was (cross)-posted to the following groups:

news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, rec.gardens, rec.arts.bonsai, alt.bonsai
rec.gardens.orchids, rec.gardens.roses


From pwick@med.umich.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:15 EST 1995
Article: 56338 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!med.umich.edu!pwick
From: pwick@med.umich.edu (Peter F. Wick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,sci.med.pharmacy
Subject: Re: Poison oak/Procardia
Date: 28 Feb 1995 22:23:21 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan - DMSV
Lines: 35
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3j07op$n90@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
References: <mfrost.287.001E1704@primenet.com> <xe0a8wz.pattibelle@delphi.com> <1995Feb21.150511.39010@cobra.uni.edu> <D4DtK3.I7C@spdcc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: escher.dmsv.med.umich.edu
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:56338 sci.med.pharmacy:7019
Status: O
X-Status: 

 >The following text was extracted from a post in rec.gardens.  It seems
|> >a little "off" to me, if Procardia is what I think it is. 

|> >//snip//

|> >> My doctor told me that at the first sign of poison oak to take one
|> >> Procardia pill, poke it with a pin, then hold it under the tongue
|
snip

|> Procardia is nifedipine, a calcium channel blocker.  
snip

I think some of the rationale lies in the ability of nifedipine to block
a specific type of calcium channel.  The dihydropyridines, of which nifedipine-
nicardipine-nimodipine-nisoldipine-nitrendipine-isradipine and others are,
(grammar?) selectively block L-type calcium channels.  So far there are known
to be at least 5 types identified by gene cloning.  L-type channels are
strongly implicated in dominating the release of stored chemical messages
from neuroendocrine (adrenal chromaffin cells), endocrine (islet cells) and
some white cells (mast cells).  If you can block them and prevent calcium 
influx into any of those cells, you inhibit release due to a stimulus.

My dissertation is on the coupling of L-type calcium channels to secretion
in chromaffin cells, but I'm not an expert on mast cells.  I guess this
hypothesis is similar to how cromolyn sodium and that other one in Tilade
work to stave off asthma and allergic reactions.  I don't know if the 
reaction comes on strong once the nifedipine leaves but I would bet it
does because the skin still will have the oils in it for several hours 
after the nifedipine has been cleared.  Oil present -> stimulate those IgE
mediated reactions -> suffering.  Maybe someone knows how to get in touch
with Bastien Gomperts in the UK.  Don't know the university, Liverpool?
He studies exocytosis using mast cells as a model and might have better info.

Peter Wick


From Christy@rain.or Mon Mar  6 10:40:16 EST 1995
Article: 56461 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.rain.org!usenet
From: Chris Baker <Christy@rain.or>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mexican Sage
Date: 28 Feb 1995 06:37:11 GMT
Organization: RAIN Public Access Internet (805) 967-RAIN
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3iugan$4m4@news.rain.org>
References: <3isnn5$obm@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port24.ventura.rain.org
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I have successfully grown Mexican sage from cuttings...I also love
my plant...Have you tried Cleveland Sage or Pineapple sage?  My
Pineapple Sage is now in full bloom.

Christy






ssieling@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sarah A Sieling) wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried growing Mexican Sage from seed if so where did you get the 
> seed?  I have looked in several catalogues but have not found it available.  I
> bought one plant last year and really loved it.  It looks like it should be
> easy to grown from seed if I could find it.
> 
>  Sarah



From Christy@rain.or Mon Mar  6 10:40:18 EST 1995
Article: 56462 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.rain.org!usenet
From: Chris Baker <Christy@rain.or>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Picking Basil
Date: 28 Feb 1995 06:42:26 GMT
Organization: RAIN Public Access Internet (805) 967-RAIN
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <3iugki$4m4@news.rain.org>
References: <pjonke-2702951439080001@higstar11.soest.hawaii.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port24.ventura.rain.org
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Patrick,

Once the plant is established you can cut 1/2
 and still have it flourish.  When you pick the flowers use them
 in your recipes as they have same flavor..I keep ziplock bag in my
freezer and when I need basil cut it frozen and add.  When basil is young
I only pick large bottom leaves to encourage growth.  After that I
Pinch tops off...good luck and enjoy.

Christy


pjonke@soest.hawaii.edu (Patrick Jonke) wrote:
>
> Aloha,
> 
> Does anyone know the proper technique for harvesting fresh basil? Should I
> pluck the leaves individually, or cut off a whole stem? 
> 
> How much can I take at one time and still maintain a healthy plant? 10%? 20%?
> 
> Am I correct in assuming that I should nip off the flowers?
> 
> Mahalo in advance...
> 
> -- 
>                       Patrick Jonke
>          University of Hawaii at Manoa
> Department of Marine Geology & Geophysics



From Christy@rain.or Mon Mar  6 10:40:19 EST 1995
Article: 56463 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.rain.org!usenet
From: Chris Baker <Christy@rain.or>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Picking Basil
Date: 28 Feb 1995 06:42:29 GMT
Organization: RAIN Public Access Internet (805) 967-RAIN
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <3iugkl$4s7@news.rain.org>
References: <pjonke-2702951439080001@higstar11.soest.hawaii.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port24.ventura.rain.org
Status: O
X-Status: 

Patrick,

Once the plant is established you can cut 1/2
 and still have it flourish.  When you pick the flowers use them
 in your recipes as they have same flavor..I keep ziplock bag in my
freezer and when I need basil cut it frozen and add.  When basil is young
I only pick large bottom leaves to encourage growth.  After that I
Pinch tops off...good luck and enjoy.

Christy


pjonke@soest.hawaii.edu (Patrick Jonke) wrote:
>
> Aloha,
> 
> Does anyone know the proper technique for harvesting fresh basil? Should I
> pluck the leaves individually, or cut off a whole stem? 
> 
> How much can I take at one time and still maintain a healthy plant? 10%? 20%?
> 
> Am I correct in assuming that I should nip off the flowers?
> 
> Mahalo in advance...
> 
> -- 
>                       Patrick Jonke
>          University of Hawaii at Manoa
> Department of Marine Geology & Geophysics



From gml0@gte.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:21 EST 1995
Article: 56464 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!ceylon!glambert.gte.com!user
From: gml0@gte.com (Gary Lambert)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Plant Labels/ Markers
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 10:25:38 -0500
Organization: GTE Labs
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <gml0-270295102539@glambert.gte.com>
References: <3iq69u$l4h@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: glambert.gte.com
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In article <3iq69u$l4h@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, billsdone@aol.com
(BillsDone) wrote:

> Anyone have any advice on plant markers.  Which is the most durable? Cost
> effective? Do the carbon markers on galvanized metal work?  
> 
> Thanks in Tennessee

Fading is a problem with all of the metal markers we have tried,
even when a "permanent" marking pen is used. Many of the gardens
we visited used tags made on a hand held plastic label maker that
were mounted on a plain metal or plastic marker.


From adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:22 EST 1995
Article: 56465 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!vtaix.cc.vt.edu!adamf
From: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu (Adam Finkelstein)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Date: 24 Feb 1995 14:44:12 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <3ikrbs$blu@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <7765192801601@apple.uu.ids.net> <LRFORTNEY-2202950758520001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu> <mobabbb.1144024884B@newsserver.utcc.utk.edu> <LRFORTNEY-2402950923490001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vtaix.cc.vt.edu
NNTP-Posting-User: adamf
Status: O
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In article <LRFORTNEY-2402950923490001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu>,
L. R. Fortney <LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu> wrote:
>In article <mobabbb.1144024884B@newsserver.utcc.utk.edu>,
>mobabbb@utkvx.utk.edu (Meredith Morris-Babb) wrote:

 copious "big picture" anal retentive proposed rec.gardens.*
 groups deleted.

>  I would certainly agree to rec.gardens.pests, but don't you think trees
>fits into landscape, at least to the point that having both would be
>confusing and encourage cross posting?
>  The other good suggestion was to add rec.gardens.tools.
>  I could also live happily with "edible" replacing vegetable and fruit. 
>It's true some flowers are edible, but it would save arguments as to
>whether a tomato (tomatoe?) is a vegetable or a fruit, and it would make
>fewer subgroups.

 Okay this is supposed to be funny...

 Maybe what we need to do for rec.gardens, is make a new group for
 ***each atom***. Yes that's right; each atom, for each molecule, for each
 element, for each compound... this way, nobody needs to read stuff they
 aren't interested in, and as new discoveries are made, we can make new
 groups up. I mean, this is all encompassing! Think of the LOGIC this
 holds. 

 Adam
-- 
______________________________________
Adam Finkelstein 
adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu 


From eabu2635@taurus.oac.uci.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:24 EST 1995
Article: 56466 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!taurus.oac.uci.edu!eabu2635
From: Anita Christine Stecker <eabu2635@taurus.oac.uci.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: ORCHARDS
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 22:42:46 -0800
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950227224025.22569A-100000@taurus.oac.uci.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: taurus.oac.uci.edu
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My orchards continously have new leaves, but I can't seem to make them bloom.

							Please help! 



From heverlyj@ccnet.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:26 EST 1995
Article: 56467 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!usc!ccnet.com!ccnet.com!not-for-mail
From: heverlyj@ccnet.com (Jerry Heverly)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Rotate Tomatoes?
Date: 27 Feb 1995 22:56:42 -0800
Organization: CCnet Communications (510-988-7140 guest)
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3iuhfa$jml@ccnet3.ccnet.com>
References: <D4o6pq.1D8@cid.aes.doe.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ccnet3
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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Monique Ibey (ibeym@spock) wrote:
: Just trying to plan the layout/rotation schedule for this summer's veggie 
: garden.  I've read several books about companion planting and crop rotation.  
: Some say that tomatoes like to stay where they are.  Others suggest including 
: tomatoes in a yearly crop rotation.  Any advice from experienced tomato 
: growers out there would be appreciated.  I am in Zone 5b/6a (Southern Ontario) 
: according to my chart.

: Thanks in advance,

: Monique
	The main reason to rotate tomatoes is disease prevention.  
Several of the most virulent tomato pathogens are soil borne, i.e. the 
spores of the fungus travel through the soil and enter the plant through 
the roots.
	If you use disease resistant cultivars, often marked VFN on the 
label, you cut down on your chances of suffering one of these diseases, 
*but* the plant may be infected nonetheless.  The resistance 
characteristic prevents the plant from manifesting the disease but it can 
still be present.  You can innoculate the soil with the fungus without 
*this year* suffering from it.  The spores can remain in the soil and 
infect the crop in succeeding years.  You can also introduce diseases 
into the soil with other crops;  other solanaceous things like eggplant, 
peppers and potatoes; or other susceptible plants like strawberries.
	By rotating to another part of the garden you reduce your chances 
of suffering from these fungi.  Speaking from experience all it takes is 
one bad experience, one crop decimated by disease to get you on the 
rotation bandwagon.
Jerry Heverly, Instr. of hort, Diablo Valley College, Pleasant Hill, CA
-- 


Jerry Heverly, Oakland, CA


From mfrost@primenet.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:27 EST 1995
Article: 56468 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip081.lax.primenet.com!mfrost
From: mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: The poison in cucumber peel
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 19:56:03 PST
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <mfrost.302.00199372@primenet.com>
References: <deadly.cucumbers.myth@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au> <3iihvr$ae0@nntp.interaccess.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip081.lax.primenet.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4]
Status: O
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>In article <deadly.cucumbers.myth@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au> John Savage,
>johns@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au writes:
>>Back when I was a young lad, mother used always to peel those green salad
>>cucumbers with a knife, then score the entire outside of the peeled fruit

>>lengthwise 8 or 9 times with a kitchen fork "to drain the poison".
>From: June Meyer <june4@interaccess.com>
>My grandmother and mother peeled cucumbers and scored them lengthwise to
>make them more digestible and pretty to look at. I never heard of poison
>draining out!

My neighbor's mother used to instruct us to cut off the ends of an unpeeled 
cucumber and rub each end with its cut-off piece until a froth appeared. The 
purpose of this was "to draw out the bitterness". I also saw this procedure in 
a jr hi home ec class. There was no reference to poisonous qualities.
Regards, Martha
mfrost@primenet.com


From pattibelle@delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:29 EST 1995
Article: 56469 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mexican Sage
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 02:12:36 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <ZCz6lIc.pattibelle@delphi.com>
References: <3isnn5$obm@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1a.delphi.com
X-To: Sarah A Sieling <ssieling@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Status: O
X-Status: 

Sarah, why not divide the root?  I just did mine a couple of weeks ago
and they're now starting to sprout new leaves.  Spring at last???
 
Pat in Napa, CA


From Mathias.Koerber@swi.com.sg Mon Mar  6 10:40:30 EST 1995
Article: 56470 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!ntuix.ntu.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!mathias
From: mathias@unicorn.swi.com.sg (Mathias Koerber)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Fleurop on the Net?
Date: 26 Feb 1995 14:16:21 GMT
Organization: Technet, Singapore
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <3iq2fm$ri5@raffles.technet.sg>
Reply-To: Mathias.Koerber@swi.com.sg
NNTP-Posting-Host: unicorn.swi.com.sg
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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Hi, 

I hope I'm posting this in the right place...

I am looking for a long-distance flower ordering shop (like the fleurop
chain) or any flower-shop in Hamburg (D) who have net-access (preferrably
WWW). If this is a FAQ (somehow I don't think so) I apologize. Please e-mail,
and if I get enough replies I will summarize...

cheers

--
Mathias Koerber                                      Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29
SW International Systems Pte Ltd                          Fax: +65 / 777 94 01
14 Science Park Drive #04-01 The Maxwell    e-mail: Mathias.Koerber@swi.com.sg
S'pore 0511         <A HREF=http://www.swi.com.sg/~mathias/mathias.html>MK</A>
   I have a spelling checker; It came with mine PC; It plainly marks
for my revue; Mistakes I cannot sea
   I've run this poem threw it; I'm sure your please to no; Its letter
perfect in it's weigh; My checker tolled me sew
		-- from a .sig from jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit)



From clewis@bnr.ca Mon Mar  6 10:40:32 EST 1995
Article: 56471 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!clewis
From: clewis@bnr.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Trying to save split tree
Date: 28 Feb 1995 20:47:26 GMT
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa Canada
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3j024u$om8@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca>
References: <D4KMns.49v@ferret.ocunix.on.ca> <1995Feb27.103930.39327@cobra.uni.edu> <D4p10z.Cuv@ferret.ocunix.on.ca> <3ivqo4$k4s@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bcarh2ec.bnr.ca
Status: O
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In article <3ivqo4$k4s@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>,
Susan Sanders  <ssanders@umich.edu> wrote:
>In article <D4p10z.Cuv@ferret.ocunix.on.ca> Chris Lewis,
>clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca writes:
>>I'll use threaded rod with pieces of cedar 2x4 as the first layer of
>>"washer" (against the trunk), and large metal washers as the second
>layer,
>anything special about the threaded rod?  
>
>Personally, I would skip the wood and just use large fender washers, if
>necessary (depending on the length of the split) doing two rods, one
>above the other.  Assuming the repair is successful, and I would expect
>it to be (I've done this with good success though not on cedar), the tree
>will keep growing and eventually completely engulf the hardware.  I would
>think the 2X4, on the other hand, could interfere with the continued
>growth of the tree.
>
>>Is galvanized (zinc plated) okay?  Or should I find ordinary steel and
>let
>>it rust?  I want to make sure I don't poison the tree, but would prefer
>>not to bust the bank trying to buy stainless threaded rod ;-)
>
>In my experience, galvanized works fine.                        -Sue
>Sanders

Thanks.

Upon revision, I'm going to do one bolt straight thru the split, and
another 18-24" above the split.  The first to keep the split together,
and the second to control/reduce the leverage/flexing of the crotch.

I'll have to see what I can find in the way of washers.  I'd kinda
like something as much as 2" in diameter.


From piddipat@aol.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:33 EST 1995
Article: 56472 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: piddipat@aol.com (Piddipat)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Community Gardens
Date: 28 Feb 1995 23:10:19 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 13
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3j0s3b$5il@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3iua9r$jv3@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: piddipat@aol.com (Piddipat)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
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re jen mayer's question:
i know who the owner of the land in question is. he's an "alleged" drug
dealer who walked away from the two garage/dwellings that were on the
land, which fell into deplorable shape. it took three years of calling the
city every month to get the dwellings condemned and torn down. this "drug
dealer," i hear, has fallen upon hard times and doesn't care one bit about
the property. so ... i'm gonna get it one way or the other--in fact, i
talked to the gardening director of the dept. of human services today, and
she told me that she's going to work with me to grab the land (legally)
and turn it into a community garden!!!!!!! i'll keep you posted on what
happens. :D

--pat murray


From ceci@lysator.liu.se Mon Mar  6 10:40:36 EST 1995
Article: 56473 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!psgrain!fizban.solace.mh.se!news.ifm.liu.se!ceci
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Least liked plant
Date: 28 Feb 1995 17:13:02 GMT
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3ivliu$741@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
References: <3i561n$n3@news.ycc.yale.edu> <3iaaro$rjj@news.ycc.yale.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rudolf.lysator.liu.se
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mdimand@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Mary Ann Dimand) writes:
[...]
> I also dislike Bishop's Goutweed, and many/most succulents.
> (Doesn't the word "fleshy" give you the creeps?)

Yes it does. That and the phrase "for the family's flower arranger"
make me skip to the next entry in any seed catalogue. Do flower
arrangers actually like those pale green and brownish "flowers"?

Did you see the picture of the "bat plant" in the Thompson & Morgan
catalogue? I wouldn't grow it if I was paid for it!

Regards,
--Ceci
--
====ceci@lysator.liu.se====================================
"Gabriel before me, Raphael behind me, 
 Michael to my right, Uriel on my left side. 
 In this circle of fire." Kate Bush, Lily from _The_Red_Shoes_


From oaktree@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:37 EST 1995
Article: 56474 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!oaktree
From: oaktree@netcom.com (just an acorn)
Subject: Re: My first daffodil
Message-ID: <oaktreeD4pzB9.9BH@netcom.com>
Organization: No appetite for chaos
References: <1734FBFFDS86.TINAH@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> <3im7d4$2gp@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 17:01:57 GMT
Lines: 11
Sender: oaktree@netcom12.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Cacorion <cacorion@aol.com> wrote:
>WHere are you?  In Maryland, my daffs are only 5 " high.

I don't know where the first poster was, but in northern
California, my daffodils have been blooming for about 10
days.  My hyacinths are blooming, too.
-- 
Jennifer in California                       oaktree@netcom.com
   
Beggars' Blocks and Blind Man's Fancy, Boston Corners and Beacon Light,
Broken Stars and Buckeye Blossoms, Blooming on the Tree of Life 



From gmaroni@email.unc.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:38 EST 1995
Article: 56475 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!gmaroni
From: gmaroni@email.unc.edu (Gustavo Maroni)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Wanted:Japanese umbrella pine
Date: 2 Mar 1995 15:25:59 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3j4o27$o67@bigblue.oit.unc.edu>
References: <NEWTNews.27722.793957453.pp003056@interramp.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: isisa.oit.unc.edu
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I would suppose the surest bet is the **great** conifer people: 

Iseli Nursery, 30590 S.E. Kelso Rd., Boring Oregon 97009

These things are finicky and need to be sited very well, so be sure you 
get lots of information before you spend what Iseli is 
likely to charge!

Donna Maroni
c/o gmaroni@email.unc.edu


jhmcclas@interramp.com wrote:

: My wife and I are landscaping the front yard of our house in suburban MD
: and are looking for a Japanese umbrella pine of reasonable size (5-6 feet
: at least) as they are quite slow-growing. We have tried a number of
: landscaping and garden supply companies, some with supposedly national
: contacts, but none have been able to come up with one of more than 4 feet.
: We understand this will not be cheap. Any suggestions? Thanks.

: John and Sherry 



From ab860@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Mar  6 10:40:40 EST 1995
Article: 56476 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab860
From: ab860@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (David L. Martin)
Subject: Re: to stake, or not to stake?
Message-ID: <D4IF3u.Cp7@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ab860@freenet2.carleton.ca (David L. Martin)
Reply-To: ab860@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (David L. Martin)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3ikhka$hhe@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <1995Feb24.012644.15159@cs.brown.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 15:02:18 GMT
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X-Status: 


In a previous posting, Christine Owens (cowens@ix.netcom.com) writes:
> Personally, I cage.  Basically, because it is easier than staking.
>>
>>Last year we staked our tomato plants.  Towards the end of the summer, the 
>>sub-branches started getting harder and harder to stake - they would break
>>when I tried to tie them.  My neighbour (yeah, her grass is greener too, and
>>her sage does better) used cages, and while her plants were smaller (she 
>>went inorganic :-P ) they did seem to help a lot.
>>
>>What should I do this year?  Stakes are cheap (free), but it hurt to break 

Partly it depends upon the type ot plants - theoretically "bush-type"
don't need staking, but I do anyway.  I suspect part of the breakage
problem may be what you are using for ties.  I cut very long strips from
panty-hose and use that to tie - it's elastic so it is a kind of
shock-absorber - gentle on the plants.   You can use long ties for
branches or bunches of branches ( I "bundle' them as I'm tying).

To cut the strips, start at the top and cut a long spiral right down one leg.

Hope this helps.




From m.l.zimmerman@lerc.nasa.gov Mon Mar  6 10:40:41 EST 1995
Article: 56477 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!mzimmer.lerc.nasa.gov!user
From: m.l.zimmerman@lerc.nasa.gov (Martin Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Horse Manure-Wood Shavings-Good for Gardens?
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 12:25:18 -0600
Organization: Analex Corp. - NASA Lewis Research Center
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References: <3iv0f6INN60e@oasys.dt.navy.mil> <3iv3f8$njf@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
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In article <3iv3f8$njf@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen
Fletcher) wrote:

> It's a great soil conditioner - lightens and improves any soil - but 
> don't count on much fertilizer value.  Unless horse manure is artfully
> composted (and this is a lost art), much of the nitrogen is lost in the 
> first week.

Its still not insignificant as a fertilizer when used in soil amendment
amounts. I mulched some spring-planted fruit trees in August with 1" of
aged manure (yes, I know bad idea) that had stopped growing in July. They
all immediately started growing again. They didn't drop their leaves until
December (this is in Zone 5/6 mind you) and started putting out new leaves
before February.

I'm going to terrace a hard clay slope this summer and I'm already
stockpiling manure from a friend with a dozen horses. As Karen pointed
out, stable owners *love* people that want their manure.

I did think that the manure made a troublesome mulch. I put a weed-blocker
mat under the manure and the weeds actually grew in the manure itself,
with their roots eventually destroying the underlying mat.

-- 
Marty Zimmerman                           m.l.zimmerman@lerc.nasa.gov
Analex Corp - NASA Lewis Research Center
Cleveland, Ohio USA


From spector@netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:43 EST 1995
Article: 56478 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!spector
From: spector@netcom.com (DH)
Subject: Re: I need help caring for a ficus tree
Message-ID: <spectorD4IGI5.C1L@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3ikpb1$a6j@catfish.valdosta.peachnet.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 15:32:29 GMT
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Sheila,

I tried to email you with some info. on your ficus tree, but my mail came 
back as undeliverable.  If you want the info, email me at:

spector@netcom.com

-- 
 \|/
  O<....spector@netcom.com
^(_)^   spector had a little bird, a 'tiel hen named Merlot,
_||__   and everywhere that spector went, the hen was sure to go!


From 76533.757@CompuServe.COM Mon Mar  6 10:40:44 EST 1995
Article: 56479 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Roz Garland <76533.757@CompuServe.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: HOW LATE IN DALLAS?
Date: 1 Mar 1995 04:51:46 GMT
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service
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References: <950224021836157@southwest.org>
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jb---
I don't know if you are interested or not, but we have just 
started a group on our own here in the Dallas metroplex area for 
gardeners.  Started out with a couple  of us sharing "North 
Texas" experiences, and now we have the use of a List server to 
make "chatting" a little easier and less expensive---- if you are 
interested in joining us, please let me know!
Thanks,
Roz Garland


From wsabo@teal.csn.org Mon Mar  6 10:40:47 EST 1995
Article: 56480 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csnnews!teal.csn.org!wsabo
From: wsabo@teal.csn.org (William R. Sabo)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Orchid Cloning
Date: 1 Mar 1995 04:43:36 GMT
Organization: Colorado Supernet
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Hello,

I was just wondering if anyone has any how-to book recommendations ion
cloning orchids.  I have way too much time on my hands and was just curious.

Excuse the line noise.

William R. Sabo Jr.



From wojcik@pmsrs4.pms.ford.com Mon Mar  6 10:40:48 EST 1995
Article: 56481 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!fiesta.srl.ford.com!eccdb1.pms.ford.com!pmsrs4.pms.ford.com!wojcik
From: wojcik@pmsrs4.pms.ford.com (wojcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Soiless mixes for houseplants
Date: 28 Feb 1995 17:14:49 GMT
Organization: ECC at Ford Motor Company, Dearborn Michigan
Lines: 16
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NNTP-Posting-Host: pmsrs4.pms.ford.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

martin j. chiaverini (MJC14@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
: Does anyone have some good soiless recipes using sphagnum peat, perlite,
: and vermiculite for houseplants?  Specifically, I'm interested in the proper
: proportions of the above ingredients for a general mix, a cactus mix, and
: an African violet mix.  Thanks in advace.  Marty

	One part coarse vermiculite, one part coarse perlite and one part
of milled sphagnum moss or Canadian peat moss; mixed together in a big
garbage bag; depending on your local water, you might want to add about a
cup per cubic yard of dolomite limestone to balance the pH. If your water
is normally rather alkaline, skip this last part.
	This mix is excellent for all of the above plants. If you have a
hard time finding the coarse grades of perlite/vermiculite, substitute
the medium grade; avoid the fine grade. It packs down too much.




From kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:49 EST 1995
Article: 56482 of rec.gardens
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From: kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kris Benarcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Scott Arboretum Schedule of Events
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 24 Feb 1995 16:08:28 GMT
Organization: Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College
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SPRING-SUMMER 1995
SCHEDULE OF EVENTS

THE SCOTT ARBORETUM 
OF SWARTHMORE COLLEGE
610-328-8025

The Scott Arboretum strives to offer a wide range of educational topics for
both the beginning and experienced gardener.  In this schedule, events
relating to perennials and their care are being highlighted; look for the
** in the margin.  We hope you'll join us for many of these events.  Unless
otherwise noted, these events are free and open to the public.

LECTURES AND SPECIAL EVENTS

Lotusland:  Madame Ganna Walska's Horticultural Extravaganza
Monday, April 10
7:30 p.m., Lang Performing Arts Center

Combining outstanding botanical collections with spectacular landscape
design, the late Polish diva Ganna Walska created a series of gardens on
her 37-acre Santa Barbara estate that evoke her sense of theater and love
of whimsy.  Join Steven Timbrook for this look at Lotusland's extraordinary
and artfully designed collection of cycads, palms, bromeliads, cacti,
succulents and other unusual plants.

Arbor Day Celebration
Saturday, April 29
9 a.m.-noon, Scott Offices

Plan to bring the whole family to this festival celebrating trees.  This
celebration will feature special tours and demonstrations, a variety of
children's activities and experts to answer your gardening questions. 
Additional information mailed to members; interested nonmembers should
check the registration form to receive the flyer.

The Tender Trap:  Gardening with Half-Hardy Perennials
Thursday, May 4
7:30 p.m., Lang Performing Arts Center

There are hundreds of ways to use tender perennials, a group of plants
displaying a wealth of flower, foliage and form.  Andrew Bunting will
tantalize novice and experienced gardeners alike with a synopsis of this
fascinating, yet under used group of plants and the exciting ways they can
extend your gardening palette.   

New Zealand:  Plants and Places
Thursday, May 18
7:30 p.m., Lang Performing Arts Center

Join Gordon Collier for a look at some of New Zealand's beautiful and
distinctive indigenous plants.  He will show the landscapes where these
plants occur naturally and show them used with some familiar exotics in a
variety of "down under" gardens.


Scott Associates' Spring Festival
Sunday, May 21
7:30 p.m., Lang Performing Arts Center

Join us for this special evening for the presentation of the 1995 Scott
Medal.  A reception and distribution of the spring plant dividend to
members will follow.  Members and guests will receive  invitations; please
call for more information.


Scott Associates' Garden Day
Sunday, June 18
1-5 p.m.
This year eight remarkable private gardens in the Swarthmore-Springfield
area will be featured.  Tickets, garden descriptions and directions will be
mailed to all Scott Associates in May.  Individual memberships will receive
one ticket; all other membership categories will receive three.  Additional
tickets may be purchased at the Scott Offices or by mail ($6 for adults and
$1 for children 12 years of age and under).  Please call for more
information.  


An Evening in the Arboretum 
Saturdays:  June 24, July 15 and August 12
5-8 p.m., Scott Amphitheater

This is the third year we are delighted to present this concert series,
sponsored by the Friends of Music and Dance and the Associates of the Scott
Arboretum.  These festive evenings begin with a leisurely stroll about the
Arboretum followed by time to picnic and an outdoor concert in our
magnificent amphitheater.   (These concerts will move to Lang Music
Building in the event of rain.)


A Peek at the '95 Plant Sale
Thursday, September 7
7:30 p.m., Lang Performing Arts Center Cinema

Get a sneak preview of the outstanding plants featured at the upcoming
Scott Associates' Plant Sale.  The Arboretum staff will discuss the
ornamental attributes, growing conditions and garden uses for this
outstanding group of plants.  


Scott Associates' Plant Sale
Friday, September 15, 3-7 p.m.
and Saturday, September 16, 9 a.m.-3 p.m.  
DuPont Playing Field, Swarthmore College 

Join us for our biennial Plant Sale, our biggest educational event which
also serves as a fund raiser for many of our educational programs.  This
year's sale will feature many hard-to-find and unusual trees, shrubs,
vines, perennials and houseplants.

GUIDED TOURS

Join us for these opportunities to explore the Scott Arboretum's wonderful
plant collections.  These tours are led by Arboretum staff and begin at the
Arboretum Offices.  The tours are free for members and $3 for nonmembers 
In case of inclement weather, the walk is canceled; to confirm
cancellations, please call the Arboretum Offices that morning for a
recorded message.

Early Spring at the Arboretum - Jeff Jabco
Saturday, March 25, 10 a.m.-noon 

The Structure and Design of 
the Scott Arboretum - Ethan Cramer
Saturday, April 22, 10 a.m.-noon

Highlights of the 1995 Plant Sale - Andrew Bunting
Sunday, May 28, 1-3 p.m.

The Blooms of Late Spring - Claire Sawyers
Saturday, June 10, 10 a.m.-noon

Additional Highlights of the 1995 Plant Sale - Kris Benarcik
Saturday, September 9, 10 a.m.-noon



SHORT COURSE

Three Seasons of Perennials
Wednesdays: March 15, 10-11 a.m.; May 17, July 19 and September 20, 10
a.m.-noon  
Chanticleer Foundation, Wayne, Pennsylvania


This course will give you an in-depth, three-season look at perennials. The
first session is a scintillating illustrated lecture introducing the
perennials we will cover.  The following three sessions are out-of-doors
for hands-on exposure; covering the specifics of identification,
propagation, maintenance and pest management.  Suggestions for planting
combinations will give you the confidence to successfully garden with
perennials.  Limited to 20 participants; directions and instructions mailed
upon registration.

Instructors:  Melissa Grubb and Chris Woods
Members:  $40			Nonmembers: $50 

WORKSHOPS

Trough Making
Tuesday, May 2, 10 a.m.-2 p.m., Scott Offices
(Rain Date: May 9)


Have you admired handsome, handmade troughs?  In this workshop, Joyce
Fingerut will help each participant  construct a 12 inch square hypertufa
trough from form to finish, to be taken home.  These troughs will cure in
time so you can fill them with rock garden plants featured at the upcoming
Plant Sale.  Trough aftercare and planting tips--including suggestions for
planting medium and a palette of plants to choose from--will also be
discussed.  Each participant should bring a pair of heavy rubber gloves. 
Please bring a bag lunch; we'll provide beverages and dessert.  Limited to
12 participants.
Members:	$45		Nonmembers:  $56


Water Gardening Basics
Saturday, May 13, 9:30 a.m.-noon, Scott Offices

Join us for this workshop where Tim Jennings will introduce you to the
basics of water gardening including site selection and construction
materials.  We'll discuss a variety of water plants, both hardy and
tropical, suitable for gardens in this area.  The workshop begins with a
slide lecture indoors followed by a propagation and potting up
demonstration out-of-doors and a look at the Arboretum's water garden. 
Limited to 20 participants.
Members:  $25 		Nonmembers:  $30

Containers for Connoisseurs
Friday, May 26, 10 a.m.-2:30 p.m., Scott Offices

This workshop met with such enthusiasm last year that we've added to it. 
The lectures and demonstrations will begin with Richard Hartlage showing
you how to create stunning hanging baskets, followed by Dan Benarcik
showing you some of the tropical plants that do wonderfully in containers. 
During lunch, Kris Benarcik will demonstrate ways to spice-up ordinary
containers with faux and verdigris finishes, and  Andrew Bunting will then
show you some exciting ways to use containers in the garden.  Each
participant will select several plants and plant their own terra cotta
container to take home.  All workshop materials, including  container and 
lunch provided.   Limited to 25 participants.   
Members:  $55  			Nonmembers:  $68


TRIPS 

The Academy of Natural Sciences and Historic Bartram's Garden
Tuesday, May 23, 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. 
Van Trip, Depart from Scott Offices 
Our first stop will be the Academy of Natural Sciences for a specially
arranged behind-the-scenes tour.  This tour, led by  Academy staff, will
feature a look at their herbarium, which includes over one half million
plants collected in Pennsylvania and New Jersey beginning in 1780, and
plants collected by Lewis and Clark and Thomas Jefferson.
We'll then travel to Historic Bartram's Garden.  After a catered lunch,
we'll have a guided tour of the house and garden.  Historic Bartram's
Garden, designated a National Historic Landmark in 1965, includes 44 acres
of the original Bartram farm, which was established over 250 years ago. 
John Bartram was America's first great botanist and he and his son William
are credited with introducing into cultivation more than 200 native plants.
 Many of the magnificent specimens in the garden are native plants
including a yellowwood said to have been collected in the 1780s.  
Members:  $53			Nonmembers:  $66


England's Herb Farm and David Culp's Home Garden
Wednesday, May 31, 8:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m. 
Van Trip, Depart from Scott Offices

The day will begin with a guided tour of England's Herb Farm.  On a little
less than three acres, Yvonne England has created a garden overflowing with
herbs and other perennials.  The garden includes a pond, bog, vegetable
garden, meadow, terraces and many garden ornaments.  After the tour, you'll
be able to enjoy lunch in your favorite part of the garden.
	After lunch, we'll visit the garden of David Culp.  This garden shows the
owner's enthusiasm for plants--he's past President of the Hardy Plant
Society and currently works for Sunny Border, a wholesale perennial
grower--expect to see the newest cultivars as well as some old favorites.  
Please bring a bag lunch; we'll provide beverages and dessert.
Members:  $38			Nonmembers:  $48



Watnong Terrace and Frelinghuysen Arboretum  
Wednesday, August 23, 7:30 a.m.-7 p.m.
Bus Trip, Depart from DuPont Parking Lot

Our first stop will be Watnong Terrace, the private garden of Helen and
Frank Donn.  This two and one-half acre garden includes the former Watnong
Nursery and contains dazzling collections of dwarf conifers, perennials,
several rock gardens, heaths and heathers and a pond. 
We will then travel to Frelinghuysen Arboretum, where after a catered
lunch,  Richard Hartlage will give us a guided tour of this ever-changing
display garden which will include a look at their vegetable garden, myriad
containers and hanging baskets and an overview of their many programs.
Members:  $65		Nonmembers:  $80



INSTRUCTORS

Dan Benarcik received his degree in Plant and Soil Sciences from the
University of Delaware.  He is currently a horticulturist at the
Chanticleer Foundation in Wayne, Pennsylvania where he leads workshops on a
variety of subjects.

Kris Benarcik is Education Coordinator at the Scott Arboretum.

Andrew Bunting is Curator at the Scott Arboretum.  

Gordon Collier is the owner of Titoki Point Garden and Nursery in Taihape,
New Zealand.  He is the New Zealand Vice-President of the International
Dendrology Society and the author of several books including The New
Zealander's Garden, published in 1984.

Ethan Cramer is Assistant to the Director at the Scott Arboretum.  

Joyce Fingerut is Past President of the Delaware Valley Rock Garden
Society.  She frequently leads trough-making workshops; in 1991, her
exhibit at the Philadelphia Flower Show showed how to create troughs. 

Melissa Grubb is a graduate of the Professional Gardener Training Program
at Longwood Gardens.  She currently works at the Chanticleer Foundation in
Wayne, Pennsylvania where she is responsible for the Pond Garden and the
Asian Woods.

Richard Hartlage received his degree in Horticulture from the North
Carolina State University.  He is Superintendent of Horticulture for the
Morris County Parks Department in New Jersey.

Jeff Jabco is Assistant Director of Horticulture at the Scott Arboretum.

Tim Jennings is a graduate of the Professional Gardener Training Program at
Longwood Gardens.  He is a Senior Gardener at Longwood Gardens where his
duties include working in their aquatic gardens; he is a teacher and lab
instructor for Longwood's education programs.

Claire Sawyers is Director of the Scott Arboretum.

Steven Timbrook, Director of Ganna Walska Lotusland since 1987, is a
botanist with special interest in desert plants, bromeliads and cycads.

Chris Woods is Executive Director of the Chanticleer Foundation, a public
garden in Wayne, Pennsylvania.  His horticultural training includes
experience at The Royal Botanic Garden at Kew and he is author of Facts on
File Encyclopedia of Perennials.  


CALENDAR OF EVENTS

MARCH
  15	Three Seasons of Herbaceous Perennials
	10-11 a.m., Chanticleer
  25	Early Spring at the Arboretum 
	10 a.m.-noon, Guided Tour, Scott Offices
APRIL
  10	Lotusland
	7:30 p.m., Lecture, Lang Performing Arts Center Cinema
  22	The Structure and Design of the Scott Arboretum
	10 a.m.-noon, Guided Tour, Scott Offices
  29	Arbor Day Celebration
	9 a.m.-noon, Scott Offices  
MAY
   2	Trough Making 
	10 a.m.-2 p.m., Workshop, Scott Offices
   4	The Tender Trap:  Gardening with Half-Hardy Perennials
	7:30 p.m., Lecture, Lang Performing Arts Center Cinema
  13	Water Gardening Basics
	9:30 a.m.-noon, Workshop, Scott Offices
  17	Three Seasons of Herbaceous Perennials
	10 a.m.-noon, Chanticleer
  18	New Zealand:  Plants and Places
	7:30 p.m., Lecture, Lang Performing Arts Center Cinema
  21	Scott Associates' Spring Festival
	7:30 p.m., Lecture, Lang Performing Arts Center
  23	The Academy of Natural Sciences and Bartram's Garden
	9 a.m.-4:30 p.m., Van Trip, Depart from Scott Offices
  26 Containers for Connoisseurs
	10 a.m.- 2:30 p.m., Workshop, Scott Offices
  28	Highlights of the 1995 Plant Sale
	1-3 p.m., Guided Tour, Scott Offices
  31	England's Herb Farm and David Culp's Garden
	8:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m., Van Trip, Depart from Scott Offices
JUNE
  10	The Blooms of Late Spring
	10 a.m.-noon, Guided Tour, Scott Offices
  18	Scott Associates' Garden Day
	1-5 p.m.
  24	An Evening in the Arboretum 
	5-8 p.m., Tour and Concert, Scott Amphitheater 
JULY
  15	An Evening in the Arboretum 
	5-8 p.m., Tour and Concert, Scott Amphitheater
  19	Three Seasons of Herbaceous Perennials
	10 a.m.-noon, Chanticleer
AUGUST 
  12 An Evening in the Arboretum 
	5-8 p.m., Tour and Concert, Scott Amphitheater
  23	Watnong Terrace and Frelinghuysen Arboretum
	7:30 a.m.-7 p.m., Bus Trip, Depart from DuPont Parking Lot
SEPTEMBER
   7	A Peek at the '95 Plant Sale
	7:30 p.m., Lecture, Lang Performing Arts Center Cinema 
   9	Highlights of the 1995 Plant Sale
	10 a.m.-noon, Guided Tour, Scott Offices
  15	Scott Associates' Plant Sale
  	3-7 p.m., DuPont Playing Field
  16	Scott Associates' Plant Sale
  	9 a.m.-3 p.m., DuPont Playing Field
  20	Three Seasons of Herbaceous Perennials
	10 a.m.-noon, Chanticleer

To register:  Return to the Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College, 500
College Avenue, Swarthmore, PA 19081-1397.  Include this form with payment.
 Registration fees are fully refundable only if notification is received no
later than seven days prior to the event.  Please send separate checks for
membership and courses.  No telephone registrations will be accepted.

								Fee $
						Members		Nonmember		
MARCH
  15	Three Seasons of 
	Herbaceous 
	Perennials (also meets 
	May 17, July 19 and 
	Sept. 20) - Short Course $40______		$50______

  25	Early Spring 
	at the 
	Arboretum - Guided Tour	Free_____		$ 3______	

APRIL
  22	The Structure and 
	Design of the Scott 
	Arboretum - Guided Tour	Free______	$ 3______

  29	Arbor Day Celebration
	nonmembers check 
	to receive information				______
MAY
   2	Trough Making Workshop	$45______		$56______

  13 Water Gardening 
	Basics - Workshop		$25______		$30______

  23	The Academy of 
	Natural Sciences and 
	Historic Bartram's 
	Garden - Van Trip		$53______		$66______

  26	Containers for 
	Connoisseurs - Workshop	$55______		$68______

  28	Highlights of the 1995 
	Plant Sale - Guided Tour	Free_____		$ 3______

  31	England's Herb Farm and 
	David Culp's Garden - Van
	Trip					$38______		$48______
			
JUNE
  10	The Blooms of Late 
	Spring - Guided Tour	Free______	$ 3______

  24	An Evening in 
	the Arboretum - 
	Tour and Concert
	nonmembers check to 
	receive information					________
	(Also includes information for July 15 and August 12 	tours and concerts.)
				
AUGUST
  23	Watnong Terrace and 
	Frelinghuysen Arboretum 
	Bus Trip 				$65______		$80______

SEPTEMBER
   9	Highlights of the 1995 
	Plant Sale - Guided Tour	Free_____		$ 3______


The Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College is a garden of suggestion. 
Covering 300 acres of the Swarthmore College campus, the Arboretum Contains
over 3,000 different kinds of plants.  The mission of the Arboretum is to
grow and display the best hardy ornamental trees, shrubs and perennials for
home gardens in the Delaware Valley.  

The Scott Arboretum is open year-round, free of charge, from dawn to dusk. 
For more information call 610-328-8025.


The Scott Arboretum shall not be liable in any way for any damage, injury
or loss of life or property incurred by any person in connections with
these programs beyond funds for cancellation by said date.



Spring-Summer 1995
Schedule of Events
© 1995 The Scott Arboretum


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:51 EST 1995
Article: 56483 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Beginner question: Clay or plastic pots for herbs?
Message-ID: <1995Feb24.095751.39205@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 24 Feb 95 09:57:50 -0600
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In article <46.12665.445@bbs.fullcoll.edu>, chris_thornton@bbs.fullcoll.edu (Chris Thornton) writes:
> perhaps you can seal the inside of the pots so they don't use so much
> water.

I didn't find the beginning of this thread, but if you're having trouble
with plants in clay pots drying out, some of the choices are:

1) moving to plastic pots (plants in plastic don't grow as well for me,
    though)
2) shifting to a larger clay pot, even including putting several plants
    of the same species in one larger pot
3) jardenieres: putting the clay pot inside a glazed pot that's slightly
   larger: net result is the air between the glazed and unglazed pots
   is more humid, so water evaporates from the unglazed clay more slowly.
4) double potting: putting the unglazed clay pot on a pad of sphagnum
   or other moisture retentive material inside a larger clay pot; stuff
   the space between the walls with more sphagnum.   The sphagnum
   acts like a sponge, taking up water from overwatering, releasing
   it back when the inner pot dries.
5) increasing the soil water capacity by changing the potting mix; most
   commonly now by adding "water grabbers", polyacrylamide beads that
   swell in water.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From bmoon@cello.gina.calstate.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:52 EST 1995
Article: 56484 of rec.gardens
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From: bmoon@cello.gina.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Lemons in Texas
Date: 24 Feb 1995 08:01:19 -0800
Organization: GINA and CORE+ Services of The California State University
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Jeff Ferris (jcferris@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: My wife loves lemons, and as a joke, we took some seeds from a lemon she 
: just ate and dumped them in a pot.  To our surprise, I now have a 24" 
: tall lemon tree (two actually) growing very well indoors.  The problem 
: is, I live in the Austin Texas area, and don't see Lemon Trees being 
: grown around here.  Can I put this tree in the yard?  It is 24" tall and 
: still a single stalk, should I top it to force it to branch?  If not 
: now, when?  Anyone with some experience in lemon trees, please post or 
: send Email directly.
	The HP book CITRUS: HOW TO SELECT, GROW AND ENJOY has a chapter 
on growin citrus in Texas. Austin is north of the band that they indicate 
as being capable of home garden citrus growing. Even in that area, they 
indicate that only hardy citrus (kumquates, calamondins, Satsuma 
mandarins, and trifoliate oranges) can be grown outside of the Rio Grande 
Valley.
	There are determined people here on the net who grow citrus in 
places like Maryland so if you want to grow your lemon as a potted plant 
that goes outside in the warm months, I'm sure they will be happy to 
advise you.
	Citrus genetics is rather strange. Some of the seeds in citrus 
may be true to the tree they came from. These are referred to as nucellar 
seed. Other seed resembles both parents. In a book by John McPhee 
ORANGES, he tells of scientists planting over 200 seeds from limes and 
getting only two limes out of the whole lot. Since fruiting can take 
about 10 years, you might put a lot of effort and find you don't really 
have a lemon. But then, you've already found you can use the leaves.
Bruce Moon
Rio Linda, CA


From eberts@oregon.uoregon.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:54 EST 1995
Article: 56485 of rec.gardens
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From: eberts@oregon.uoregon.edu (sonny hays-eberts)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Organically removing slugs?
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 09:40:33 -0700
Organization: u of o
Lines: 42
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In article <3itp93$1ki@rosebud.sdsc.edu>, kamratha@sdsc.edu (Anke
Kamrath,,) wrote:

> I've got slugs in my square foot garden and herb garden.
> I'm concerned about using anything toxic to get rid
> of these creatures since I'd like the food to be healthy
> (and I have cats in the area I don't want to poison).
> 
> Any suggestions on getting rid of them organically?

beer traps - they require changing the bait periodically; depends on how
much water gets in or how many slugs.

clean up your garden - mulch and rotting plants provide shelter for slugs

ducks - esp. muscovy ducks love slugs

diatomaceous earth/egg shells - minimal success imho.

copper holds a minimal charge which slugs are (supposedly) loathe to cross
- it's expensive and i haven't tried it

snake 'barbed wire' - using door screens, run a strip (upright) around your
beds  and remove the top few horizontal strands - this is much more
effective than 
eggshells and diatom. earth, again, imho, though some slugs burrow

encourage snakes and moles

and lastly (ick) handpicking

all lessons learned in the rainy northwest. :)

-- 
albert einstein nailed space-time
but the wild thing had him stumped
al baby, two and two make five and a quarter
that's why people fall in love
            -- t. dolby

sonny hays-eberts
eberts@oregon.uoregon.edu


From joan@scs.unr.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:55 EST 1995
Article: 56486 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.nevada.edu!silver.scs.unr.edu!news.unr.edu!pogonip.scs.unr.edu!joan
From: joan@scs.unr.edu (Joan Rowe)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: When do dogwoods flower in Atlanta?
Date: 28 Feb 1995 18:06:20 GMT
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno
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Hi,

I'd love to see the dogwoods in flower in Atlanta.  I'm trying to plan a 
trip in April but may not be able to get there until about the last week 
of the month.  Will I be too late?

Thanks,
Joan


From GENES@american.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:56 EST 1995
Article: 56487 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!american.edu!GENES
From: GENES@american.edu (C. Richard Wrathall)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: After daffodils - what to plant? Help!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 12:55:09 EST
Organization: The American University
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In article <3ir2fq$lp6@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
BARRETTA@ix.netcom.com (Joe Barretta) writes:
 
>
>Does anyone have ideas of what will grow well in a daffodil bed after
>the daffodils bloom?  My problem is that I like to leave the daffodil
>leaves intact so they will fertilize next year's bloom. I am looking for
>ideas on what to plant for summer without disturbing the soil too much.
>I've tried cosmos with a little success. It's a pretty sunny spot, but
>the soil isn't great. I don't want to dig up the bulbs. Any suggestions?
 
I have had good success with perennial Chrysanthemums in a plot with at
least 50 daffodils. As the leaves of the daffodils start to die back,
the mums are starting to come up. The only thing that I do to this plot
is to pinch the mums to keep them low and bushy. I usually fertilize with
a high potassium fertilizer at the end of the daffodil flowering, and with
relatively high organic nitrogen fertilizer (compost, etc. in the very late
fall. This has given me a flowering bed in both spring and fall, and with
very little work.
                        Dick Wrathall


From KRH113@psuvm.psu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:40:58 EST 1995
Article: 56488 of rec.gardens
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Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 10:33:39 EST
From: krh/micro <KRH113@psuvm.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <95055.103339KRH113@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pruning roses - when and how much?
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Hello, as someone said ( somewhere in this group ) 3 different people=3
different answers.  I also live in PA (DuBois) and love roses....  I
bought a house last year that had several rose bushes growing around the
yard.  It did not appear as though anyone had taken care of them for
years!  I started by trimming them in the late winter/ early spring.  I
cut down to the brown/green line.  Being careful to cut these stems at
an angle (aprox 45 degrees).  In late spring, I started placing coffee
grounds (used and not designer) in a circle aprox 3 inches from the base
of the bush.  I also had some shreded maple leaves that I placed around
the base ...  I fed the rose bush one time while blooming and once after
bloom using a generic form of miricale grow for roses.....  Now I am
waiting to see what happens this year.....-good luck!-kent
" Read, not to contradict and confute; nor to believe and take for
granted; nor to find talk and discourse; but to weigh and consider."
****Francis Bacon*****
krh(micro in irc land) krh113@psuvm.psu.edu


From tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov Mon Mar  6 10:40:59 EST 1995
Article: 56489 of rec.gardens
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From: tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov (Tom Rudnick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: paper pots
Date: 28 Feb 1995 20:12:05 GMT
Organization: USDA/Natural Resources Conservation Service IRMD, Fort Collins
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <3j002l$o00@ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov>
References: <1995Feb23.200220.1625@cs.brown.edu> <793587948snz@wordshop.demon.co.uk>
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Gary Cooper (Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk) writes:
> In article <1995Feb23.200220.1625@cs.brown.edu>

OK, I lost the original posting, and am REALLY responding to |
>            kj@cs.brown.edu "Kopal Barnouin-Jha" writes: <--+

> > I saw this little wood gadget in a catalogue that was to be used to make 
> > paper pots out of newspaper, with recycling/ability to plant directly into 
> > ground being the + points.  On the down side, it seemed expensive, about 
> > $17.  
> > 
> > a)  Do paper pots made with this simple gadget have bases?
> > b)  If not, do you stack on an impermeable plastic tray so they can be moved
> >          around if needed?
> > c)  If anyone here's used paper pots (bought or made), I'd like to hear about 
> >          those as compared to, say, peat.
> > 

I bought a paper-pot maker last year from Johnny's Seeds. It makes little
pots about 2.25" in diameter and 2.5" high with folded bottoms. I found
that they worked very well for vegetables that didn't have large root
systems (like tomatoes). I used mine for all of my pepper crop and everything
but my tomatoes. The newspaper degrades quickly, but I placed all of mine
in a plastic flat, where I could water them by soaking them all at once.

The degraded paper holds together well enough as long as it is't moved
much. The tomatoes that I _did_ put in the paper pots quickly outgrew the 
small bundle of dirt, and weren't as vigorous as those in the larger peat pots.

Once in the garden, I never saw the pots again. I'm going to use them again
this year for my non-tomato transplants. I use the larger peat pots for
my tomato transplants.

-Tom
----------------/------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Rudnick     | trudnick@ftc.nrcs.usda.gov | When the ship runs out of ocean
Fort Collins,CO | They Might Be Giants - | and the vessel runs aground
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| Land's where we know the boat is found.


From tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov Mon Mar  6 10:41:00 EST 1995
Article: 56490 of rec.gardens
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From: tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov (Tom Rudnick)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Slugs
Followup-To: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Date: 28 Feb 1995 20:23:48 GMT
Organization: USDA/Natural Resources Conservation Service IRMD, Fort Collins
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Walter Vose Jeffries (walter@flashmag.com) writes:
> I have found a method that works to control the slugs in our greenhouse
> (I go out at 2 am and snip them with sissors - it's a nice(?) break
> from programming. :) ) but I am curious... I have heard people
> use Diematrius (sp?) earth. I have sprinkled about two pounds

Diatomacious from those little animals called "diatoms" with glass
bodies.

> of it on our beds and walk ways over the past several months but
> it doesn't seem to have _any_ affect on the slugs at all. I bought
> it at Gardens Alive who claims it does wonders at killing slugs. So...
> What am I doing wrong with it that my local slugs don't seem to
> be affected by it? Any ideas? Does it work for you? Does it no?
> How do you use it?

You may need thicker bands of the stuff. If it is sprinkled too
lightly, the slugs may not be affected by it. If they have to crawl
over an inch barrier of it, the glass slivers will cut their cuticles
and they loose moisture and (hopefully) die.

I haven't tried it yet, but that's how I understand it. It is used
for control of lots of crawling insects, including roaches. Since
the effect is a mechanical one, rather than a chemical one, insects
cannot build up a tolerance to it.

-Tom
----------------/----------------------------------------------------
Tom Rudnick     | Compu$erve is like taking a Taxi         _/~\_      
Fort Collins,CO | on the Information Superhighway.  ......(o---o)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From rshiell@mcube.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:03 EST 1995
Article: 56491 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!hal.COM!nntp-sc.barrnet.net!news.fujitsu.com!amdahl.com!amd!netcomsv!mcube.com!rshiell
Subject: How much Basil for 37 Pestos????
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rshiell@mcube.com
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 21:20:07 EST
Message-ID: <7772-218855301@mcube.com>
Organization: Desert Jewel On-Line Mall
Lines: 43
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Pesto is strong; a little goes a long way.  I find that two packed cups
of basil leaves makes enough pesto for a one-pound package of dry pasta
(however many servings that is when cooked).

Try combining pesto with sun-dried tomatoes, feta cheese, roasted red
bell peppers, and kalamata olives (all of which you can get at Trader
Joe's). That's one of my favorite recipies.

Unfortunately, for the next few months I can't make it; my preganant
wife lost her taste for pesto. And we've got a whole shelf full of it
in the freezer... (sigh.)

Start your basil now.

Richard Shiell, ASLA        Bakersfield, CA        RShiell@mcube.com


IP>        Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right newsgroup to post in but
IP>since I like you guys (and gals) I think I'll ask you first.
IP>I'm starting basil seeds indoors now and I'm unsure of how much to
IP>plant.  I want to grow enough basil to make about 37 servings (I'm the
IP>Garden Manager for my student housing cooperative) of fresh pesto
IP>which I would like to serve at least a couple of times this year.  All
IP>the recipes I've seen call for about 2 cups of packed basil leaves for 2
IP>servings.  So how many plants ( or square feet) is this?  I love pesto as
IP>everyone else in my house does so it would be great to have fresh basil
IP>for our pesto :)

IP>oh BTW, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area-USDA zone 9; Sunset zone 17
IP>so is this the right time to be starting basil?

IP>thanks all input..
IP>paul
IP>pauloo@uclink.berkeley.edu
---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Old gardeners don't die, they just go to seed.

--
Mainframes, Minis & Micros     |     Desert Jewel BBS & Online Mall
5630 District Blvd.   #114     |     Telnet to 204.212.36.4
Bakersfield, CA      93313     |     FTP to 204.212.36.4
LandLine  ==  800-949-1959     |     WWW to http:\\www@204.212.36.4


From rshiell@mcube.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:04 EST 1995
Article: 56492 of rec.gardens
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Subject: Re: Horseradish
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rshiell@mcube.com
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 21:20:07 EST
Message-ID: <7772-218859702@mcube.com>
Organization: Desert Jewel On-Line Mall
Lines: 52
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Remember how I keep saying that climate makes huge differences?  Here we
go again; this time the difference arises between Bakersfield, CA. and
England.

I should have specified that black plastic over the soil works best to
kill weeds in Summer, or any time there's hot sun.  Here in the sunbelt
it works fast and thoroughly (even on bermudagrass, many folks' least
favorite plant). The solar heat actually COOKS the soil a couple inches
deep on a hot day (think of very hot asphalt pavement under your bare
feet; same effect.) The soil should be moist when the plastic material
is set in place.

This technique is used on a commercial scale in Israel, where
many farms sterilize their soil with solar heat to remove anything from
tough weed seeds to nematodes.


IN>In article <7766232482702@mcube.com>, rshiell@mcube.com writes:
IN>|>
IN>|> IJ>We accidently roto-tilled our horseradish one year and now we have
IN>|> IJ>horseradish coming up everywhere.  Does anyone know a good way of
IN>|> IJ>eliminating it.  Digging hasn't worked because one little piece of roo
IN>|> IJ>grows into a new plant.
IN>|>
IN>|> You could offer `dig your own' horseradish to all those folks with
IN>|> gopher problems. [grin]  The varmints can't abide horseradish, and a
IN>|> yard full of it should keep them out completely.
IN>|>
IN>|> Alternatively,  you could cover the area with black 30-gal trash bags,
IN>|> fastened down with U-shaped wires.  Solar heat, and no sun, should kill
IN>|> off _everything_ that tries to grow there.  Takes a few weeks.

IN>No chance.  This would kill off the tops.  You then remove the
IN>covering, and the stuff regrows ....
IN>You CAN kill it by digging (or using the cover method), provided
IN>that you do it EVERY time new leaves appear for at least a year
IN>(and usually two).  The other technique is to put the area down
IN>to lawn - close mowing kills horseradish eventually (i.e. years,
IN>again).
IN>Nick Maclaren,
IN>Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk

Richard Shiell, ASLA        Bakersfield, CA        RShiell@mcube.com
---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Old gardeners don't die, they just go to seed.

--
Mainframes, Minis & Micros     |     Desert Jewel BBS & Online Mall
5630 District Blvd.   #114     |     Telnet to 204.212.36.4
Bakersfield, CA      93313     |     FTP to 204.212.36.4
LandLine  ==  800-949-1959     |     WWW to http:\\www@204.212.36.4


From blw@lanl.gov Mon Mar  6 10:41:06 EST 1995
Article: 56493 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sandia.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov!newshost.lanl.gov!weintraub-mac.atdiv.lanl.gov!user
From: blw@lanl.gov (Barbara W)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need a source for Calachortus
Date: 28 Feb 1995 17:15:18 GMT
Organization: AOT-FM, LANL
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <blw-2802951022310001@weintraub-mac.atdiv.lanl.gov>
References: <3ikspk$re8@news.ycc.yale.edu> <3iot7r$fmd@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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Status: O
X-Status: 

Alplains sells seeds for 2 (maybe more) Calochortus species, one native to
California, and one to the Rockies.

blw@lanl.gov


From peacock@notapc.enet.dec.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:08 EST 1995
Article: 56494 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!peavax.eng.pko.dec.com!notapc.enet.dec.com!peacock
From: peacock@notapc.enet.dec.com ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How to care for Heather?
Date: 28 Feb 1995 18:18:32 GMT
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re: Heather in Vancouver...

	< chuckle!! >

re: original question...

Well, this is not really a scientific answer, but from what I've seen, 
heather is probably fairly sturdy stuff.  I mean, if you look at photos
of the hillsides of Northern England, for example, they're absolutely covered
with the stuff.  I remember visiting England as a child, and that stuff
was hard to pull up too (well, hard for a 7 yr old, anyway).  Without knowing
any more than that, I'd speculate that its a low maintenance plant that can
take full sun, and you may even want to be a little careful where you put it, 
or you may find out that its invasive as well.

just my opinion,

- Tom


From egilding@aloha.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:09 EST 1995
Article: 56495 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.itsnet.com!nntp.et.byu.edu!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!coconut-wireless!usenet
From: "E. Gilding" <egilding@aloha.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Looking for Wild Cucumber Seeds
Date: 1 Mar 1995 11:34:52 GMT
Organization: Flex Information Network HAWAII
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <3j1m4s$bi6@mango.aloha.com>
References: <1995Feb26.030000.9828@gov.nt.ca> <mfrost.300.0052DE5A@primenet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup18.aloha.com
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mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost) wrote:
>
> In article <1995Feb26.030000.9828@gov.nt.ca> garybl@gov.nt.ca (Gary Black) writes:
> >From: garybl@gov.nt.ca (Gary Black)
> >Subject: Looking for Wild Cucumber Seeds
> >Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 03:00:00 GMT
> 
> 
> >I am looking for somewhere to purchase wild cucumber seeds and would very
> >much appreciate it if anyone could help.
> 

sorry, uhh new at this internet stuff,

gary,

	cucumbers belong to the plant family of curcubitacae (80% sure on the spelling there)
Curcumis sativis (notice all of these names have CURCU, like CUrCUMBer) well anyways, a wild c
cucumber could be anything.

	Curcumis sativis - your everyday cucumber
	Curcumis melo - your honeydew, santaclauss and cantalope muskmelon
	Curcumis pepo - squash!

i dont know if i helped you or confused you but cucumbers, melon and squash
can breed with each other making indentification difficult, not to mention
the fact that these species have been domesticated for centuries and so
a wild cucumber may have or could be a manmade cultivar gone AWOL.

i suggest you check out a wonderful company called seeds of change
they seek out seeds of old "heirloom" or "antique" varieties from many moons back

	send a catalog request to:

	Seeds of Change
	P.O. BOX 15189
	Santa Fe, MN 87506-5189

ps, they have all sorts of other garden goodies, like ORANGE eggplant
PURPLE tomatillos and RAINBOW inca corn (ssweet corn that looks like indian ornamental corn)
a very ecologically minded company




From cowens@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:11 EST 1995
Article: 56496 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Horse manure as fertilizer
Date: 1 Mar 1995 12:01:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3j1nn5$aui@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <1995Feb26.030000.9828@gov.nt.ca> <mfrost.300.0052DE5A@primenet.com> <3j1m4s$bi6@mango.aloha.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-23.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
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I recall years ago when "Gardeners" used to almost fight over
hauling away from horse barns the manure and wood shavings mix for
their gardens.  Is this still viable?  Good for gardens?
I would think that "odor" could be a problem.

Any experiences or info out there in this regard???

Horse manure makes a wonderful fertilizer, as well as an
excellent addition to the compost pile.  So does used
horse bedding.  The odor is really not all that strong.
Since horses are herbivores, their fecal material does
not have the strong, gamey odor of carnivorous
animals.



From egilding@aloha.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:12 EST 1995
Article: 56497 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!coconut-wireless!usenet
From: "E. Gilding" <egilding@aloha.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: HOYAS! AND OTHER ASCLEPIADS!
Date: 1 Mar 1995 11:56:54 GMT
Organization: Flex Information Network HAWAII
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Message-ID: <3j1ne6$bi6@mango.aloha.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup18.aloha.com
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These are my FAVORITE plants they are both bizzare and beautiful
Some smell like roadkill in summer when they bloom(Stapelia). Others
smell like to most heavenly scent one could imagine (Hoyaa).  Well
I wanted to know if anyone has ever succsessfully pollinated a Hoya
(other than this guy I know, who hybirdliszes them, ack, he does such
 a good job!).

Aslcepiads, short for *inhale* Asclepiadacae, have a loyal following
with its own international society. and a separate international
society for hoyas alone.

the reason why I ask is that Asclepiads (AS-SKLEEP-ee-adds) have an
incredibily complex flowwer structure, and ive been trying for years
to pollinate one to no avail.  my god, how pititful. they acompare if 
not exceed the compication of orchids.

check out the neet article in HORTICULTURE FEB 1995 for an article on hoyas



From cowens@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:13 EST 1995
Article: 56498 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: slugs
Date: 1 Mar 1995 12:02:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3j1non$avv@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <1995Feb26.030000.9828@gov.nt.ca> <mfrost.300.0052DE5A@primenet.com> <3j1m4s$bi6@mango.aloha.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-23.ix.netcom.com
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Some slug deterrents - fireplace ashes.  Scatter them under your plants,
the slugs will not crawl over them because they will cut up their
undersides.  Also adds some potassium to the soil.  Also, diatomacious
earth (diatoms) does the same thing, cuts up the undersides.


Susan Ford
Norman, Oklahoma
USDA Zone 7a

Ashes are highly alkaline, and may hurt some acid-loving
plants by upsetting the soil pH.

Chris Owens



From cowens@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:15 EST 1995
Article: 56499 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Calendula
Date: 1 Mar 1995 12:03:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 12
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3j1nq6$b03@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <1995Feb26.030000.9828@gov.nt.ca> <mfrost.300.0052DE5A@primenet.com> <3j1m4s$bi6@mango.aloha.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-23.ix.netcom.com
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Hi I am trying to grow some calendula seeds (pot marigold) .  Does anyone have
any tips/ suggestions?  Also, how long does it take for them to sprout?.  Can
they be grown in a west facing sunny windowsill or do they prefer outdoors?
Thanks

Calendula are remarkably forgiving and adaptable, as long
as they have enough sun.  I just throw the seed into the
mulch over the tulips every year, and they reward me with
a glorious summer of blooms.  It takes mine about two
weeks to sprout outdoors.

Chris Owens


From egilding@aloha.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:17 EST 1995
Article: 56500 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!coconut-wireless!usenet
From: "E. Gilding" <egilding@aloha.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Black Caterpillar! Help!
Date: 1 Mar 1995 12:11:35 GMT
Organization: Flex Information Network HAWAII
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <3j1o9n$bi6@mango.aloha.com>
References: <3ivlje$o9e@venera.isi.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup18.aloha.com
Status: O
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Kathy wrote:
>
> Hi. My garden is overrun with black fuzzy caterpillars. They are eating my  
> sorrel and my black seeded simpson lettuce!  What is this creature? What  
> will it turn into? If butterfly, what type? I would like to know since it  
> is having such a good time at my expense!  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kathy

BT the bugger!

as to what it is, i dunno, but a sure fire and ecologically safe way to destroy them is with BT (Bactilis Thurgensis?)
well anyway, you gan buy it as a powder (Ortho Dipel (TM)(C)()
or a liquid (safer?).  

I purchased Dipel and mixed it with water to kill the ever present
nemesis, the monarch butterfly catepillar on my ccrown flower bush
,a giant bush/minitree milkweed.

Dipel (contains BT as active ingret, BT by the way is a bacteria.)
was sprayed and the catepillars stoppe feeding and just sat there
lijke they were meditating for a few days, then they turned black and fell off the bush
you should know that BT does not harm any other animal, insect or
otherwise except catepillars and butterflies if they drink infected nectar
BEES ARE >NOT< HARMED BY DRICKING INFECTED NECTAR

BT numbs the mouthparts and then travels down to the gut of the catepillar where it
multiplies, sometimes to the point of turning the catepillar into a 
little ballon filled with BT,

I ve seen on TV a stroy about people in south america who would have starved if it wasn't for BT
their main crop is casava, but it was being attacked by a catepillar
so someone introduced BT and now they dont have a problem, they recycle
the infected bloated catepillars by putting them into a blender and spraying
the infvected juice on the plants to kill more catepillars.

well, good luck




From ssanders@umich.edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:18 EST 1995
Article: 56501 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!usenet
From: Susan Sanders <ssanders@umich.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Trying to save split tree
Date: 28 Feb 1995 18:41:08 GMT
Organization: The University of Michigan
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3ivqo4$k4s@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
References: <D4KMns.49v@ferret.ocunix.on.ca> <3it9ov$dvg@dsk92.itg.ti.com> <1995Feb27.103930.39327@cobra.uni.edu> <D4p10z.Cuv@ferret.ocunix.on.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.211.54.249
X-Newsreader: Nuntius Version 1.2
X-XXDate: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 18:42:55 GMT
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <D4p10z.Cuv@ferret.ocunix.on.ca> Chris Lewis,
clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca writes:
>I'll use threaded rod with pieces of cedar 2x4 as the first layer of
>"washer" (against the trunk), and large metal washers as the second
layer,
anything special about the threaded rod?  

Personally, I would skip the wood and just use large fender washers, if
necessary (depending on the length of the split) doing two rods, one
above the other.  Assuming the repair is successful, and I would expect
it to be (I've done this with good success though not on cedar), the tree
will keep growing and eventually completely engulf the hardware.  I would
think the 2X4, on the other hand, could interfere with the continued
growth of the tree.

>Is galvanized (zinc plated) okay?  Or should I find ordinary steel and
let
>it rust?  I want to make sure I don't poison the tree, but would prefer
>not to bust the bank trying to buy stainless threaded rod ;-)

In my experience, galvanized works fine.                        -Sue
Sanders


From n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:20 EST 1995
Article: 56502 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!henson!henson.cc.wwu.edu!n6848640
From: FEENEY <n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Slug death recipe
In-Reply-To: <56@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us> 
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.950228081158.14853B-100000@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Sender: news@henson.cc.wwu.edu (USENET-WWU)
Organization: Western Washington University
References: <3ie3dr$oep@babylon.gain.com> <donna_menk.220.2F4DE3FA@radian.com><3il8g0$i9c@dsk92.itg.ti.com> <56@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 08:29:41 -0800
Lines: 27
Status: O
X-Status: 

Several years ago we received an excellent tip from a gardening friend in 
Vancouver, BC.  As we live in the Pacific Northwest and have extensive 
gardens, slugs are a major pest to contend with each Spring & Summer.  
While this is a pro-active approach (one requiring your active 
participation) it has many virtues:  it knocks the rascals into slug 
heaven in milli-seconds (I exaggerate only slightly), is safe in the food 
garden, effective on large and teeny tiny slugs, excellent for reaching 
into the way back of your garden beds or in knocking slugs off delicate 
plants, cheap and easy to use.  We fill a plastic spray bottle with 1/3 
non-foaming household ammonia and 2/3 water.  That's it.  We then take a 
morning wander through the garden, coffee/tea and spray bottle in hand, 
and can enjoy the pleasure of seeing what is happening in the garden as 
well as accomplish our hunting tasks (we can get over 300 in a morning), 
and early attention to this job yields the benefit of much smaller 
populations later in the season when there is so much to feast on.
Stephanie Feeney
"The Northwest Gardeners Resource Directory" 
n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu
PS  I have read and recommend "The Field Guide to the Slug", which is 
actually a very thorough and well-written book on everything you'd ever 
want to know about the beasts.  (Sasquatch Books, $5.95, makes a good 
gift!)  Know thine enemy (and learn respect for those that are not a 
threat to the garden so you do not kill them by mistake.)  The book 
discusses some of the myths about slugs--the most astonishing of which is 
that they are quite capable of gliding across razor blades without 
harm--which throws out the window our attempts to corral our precious 
plants within eggshell/hazelnut shell etc. barriers!


From helen@Xerxes.Engr.Trinity.Edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:22 EST 1995
Article: 56503 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!tusol.cs.trinity.edu!Xerxes.Engr.Trinity.Edu!helen
From: helen@Xerxes.Engr.Trinity.Edu (Helen Montgomery)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: REORGANIZATION>rec.gardens
Date: 28 Feb 1995 18:35:43 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Engineering Science, Trinity University
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3ivqdv$gvn@tusol.cs.trinity.edu>
References: <3hr7st$9ue@lfsserv1.fsc.ibm.com> <LRFORTNEY-2202950758520001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu>  <3igc0q$bo5@lfsserv1.fsc.ibm.com> <3iravq$l0o@news1.delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: xerxes.engr.trinity.edu
To: Glissons@Delphi.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Is this newsgroup about to get reorganized or is this just wishful thinking?
Frankly, it sounds great to me, sure would be more organized and easier to
get to preferred subject matter. At this point I'm only interested in trees
and edible gardens, it would be nice to be able to go straight to these subjects.

My two cents worth.....unsolicited, I realize, but....well......:).........H


From cbrossma@advtech.uswest.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:24 EST 1995
Article: 56504 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cherokee!NewsWatcher!user
From: cbrossma@advtech.uswest.com (Craig Brossman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Calendula growing
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 12:17:42 -0700
Organization: U S WEST Technologies
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <cbrossma-280295121743@130.13.28.233>
References: <3ivddb$n2v@news.tamu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.13.28.233
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3ivddb$n2v@news.tamu.edu>, leslies@tam2000.tamu.edu (Leslie
Rena Sims) wrote:

> Hi I am trying to grow some calendula seeds (pot marigold) .  Does anyone have
> any tips/ suggestions?  Also, how long does it take for them to sprout?.  Can
> they be grown in a west facing sunny windowsill or do they prefer outdoors?  
> Thanks
> 
> Leslie
> leslies@tamu.edu

-- 
I grew calendula last season outside. No real advice to give other than it
was easy, flowers all season long, no special watering, took dry spells
well, very pretty and easy plant to grow, and this year I have more
calendula seeds than I will be able to plant.

 ... Craig


From cbrossma@advtech.uswest.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:26 EST 1995
Article: 56505 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cherokee!NewsWatcher!user
From: cbrossma@advtech.uswest.com (Craig Brossman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Slug death recipe
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 12:28:18 -0700
Organization: U S WEST Technologies
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <cbrossma-280295122818@130.13.28.233>
References: <3ie3dr$oep@babylon.gain.com> <donna_menk.220.2F4DE3FA@radian.com><3il8g0$i9c@dsk92.itg.ti.com> <56@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us> <Pine.ULT.3.91.950228081158.14853B-100000@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.13.28.233
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.950228081158.14853B-100000@henson.cc.wwu.edu>,
FEENEY <n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu> wrote:
> ... in knocking slugs off delicate 
> plants, cheap and easy to use.  We fill a plastic spray bottle with 1/3 
> non-foaming household ammonia and 2/3 water.  That's it.  
> Stephanie Feeney
--
Stephanie,
You promise me that this will not harm the plants which are hit with the
spray? I tried the salt trick last year with little concern where it
landed, and without realizing, killed much more than the slugs. The dill
and pickles never recovered from the cell damage I caused.

Thanks ... Craig


From epur01@email.mot.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:29 EST 1995
Article: 56506 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!epur01.comm.mot.com!user
From: epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns)
Subject: Re: Slugs
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 13:19:17 -0500
Message-ID: <epur01-2802951319170001@epur01.comm.mot.com>
References: <CKwGRIUV.nfjvup@flashmag.flashmag.com>
Sender: news@schbbs.mot.com (SCHBBS News Account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.2.100.52
Lines: 20
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <CKwGRIUV.nfjvup@flashmag.flashmag.com>, walter@flashmag.com wrote:

> I have found a method that works to control the slugs in our greenhouse
> (I go out at 2 am and snip them with sissors - it's a nice(?) break
> from programming. :) ) but I am curious... I have heard people
> use Diematrius (sp?) earth. I have sprinkled about two pounds
> of it on our beds and walk ways over the past several months but
> it doesn't seem to have _any_ affect on the slugs at all.

Just lightly sprinkle table salt on the floor around the perimeter of the
planting area.  Ever see what happens to a slug that comes in contact with
salt?

-- 
Don Burns                         | Motorola E-Mail: epur01
Motorola Inc.                     |     Internet:epur01@email.mot.com
North American Radio Systems Divn |          Voice: 305-723-5518
Plantation, FL  U.S.A.            |            Fax: 305-723-4343
            
X.400: /c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=motorola/g=don/s=burns/ddt=id/ddv=epur01/


From kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:31 EST 1995
Article: 56507 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!NewsWatcher!user
From: kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kris Benarcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Yellowwood Tree - What is it?
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 28 Feb 1995 19:00:41 GMT
Organization: Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <kbenarc1-280295135831@130.58.39.53>
References: <jrwoodworth.374.000C448F@mmm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.58.39.53
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Status: O
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In article <jrwoodworth.374.000C448F@mmm.com>, jrwoodworth@mmm.com (John
Woodworth) wrote:

> Has anyone any experience with the yellowood tree? ...

John-

There is an article about yellowwood on page 30 of the new (April) Fine
Gardening magazine; also has a picture of the tree in bloom...

Kris Benarcik
The Scott Arboretum


From ssanders@umich.edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:32 EST 1995
Article: 56508 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!usenet
From: Susan Sanders <ssanders@umich.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Trying to save split tree
Date: 28 Feb 1995 18:53:10 GMT
Organization: The University of Michigan
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3ivrem$kfl@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
References: <D4KMns.49v@ferret.ocunix.on.ca> <3it9ov$dvg@dsk92.itg.ti.com> <1995Feb27.103930.39327@cobra.uni.edu> <D4p10z.Cuv@ferret.ocunix.on.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.211.54.249
X-Newsreader: Nuntius Version 1.2
X-XXDate: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 18:54:58 GMT
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <D4p10z.Cuv@ferret.ocunix.on.ca> Chris Lewis,
clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca writes:
>It'll probably be about 12-18" above the split, and be about 24" long.

Oops, I glossed over this sentence.  If you use *cable*, it goes above
the split but if you use *rod* that goes through at the level of the
split.  For that matter, if you can find one long enough to extend
through both trunks, you can just use carriage bolts; actually pull the
split edges together as you tighten the bolts.      -Sue Sanders


From helen@Xerxes.Engr.Trinity.Edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:33 EST 1995
Article: 56509 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!tusol.cs.trinity.edu!Xerxes.Engr.Trinity.Edu!helen
From: helen@Xerxes.Engr.Trinity.Edu (Helen Montgomery)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: purple martins
Date: 28 Feb 1995 18:49:02 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Engineering Science, Trinity University
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <3ivr6u$gvn@tusol.cs.trinity.edu>
References: <3idqmb$q1i@tusol.cs.trinity.edu> <epur01-2602952248250001@fl08ara035.comm.mot.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: xerxes.engr.trinity.edu
To: epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns)
Status: O
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geez, I didn't know the martins only catch their food on the fly!  Actually,
some of the big grasshoppers do "fly"........kinda'.  I'm going to try the
gourd method if I can find some to buy and the first birds to take residence
are welcome to the grasshoppers, though I really wanted to attract the martins.
Thanks for your advice.   :)   H


From mjenkins@edge.ercnet.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:35 EST 1995
Article: 56510 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.edge.net!usenet
From: Mike & BJ Jenkins <mjenkins@edge.ercnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Glow-in-the-dark stakes for Garden Path
Date: 1 Mar 1995 14:47:48 GMT
Organization: The Edge
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <3j21ek$jsk@excalibur.edge.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip218.ercnet.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Someone told me they saw for sale in a garden catalog, some 12" -14"
garden stakes, that collected daylight and would glow in the dark for
quite a while at night.  Has anyone seen these, and if so, will you
please send me the source?  Please e-mail.  And thank you very much !


From revans@msbbs.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:36 EST 1995
Article: 56511 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!news.xmission.com!news
From: revans@msbbs.com (Ruth Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Squirrels in the garden
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 12:07:50
Organization: CCUBB (A Great BBS)
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <19950228.7A74C08.B455@msbbs.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: msbbs.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>The only effective way to prevent Squirrel theft in vegetable gardens o
>backyard orchards is to reduce the population to a level where there is
>enough natural food to go around. I use a HAVAHART trap baited with pea
>butter to catch the squirrels. You must release them at least 5 miles f
>your garden to prevent a quick return. I trap at least 20 per year. Not
>there may be laws preventing transport and release in your area.

I hate to say this, but wouldn't it be more humane to just kill the
squirrels?  Taking any animal out of its territory usually results in
death.  It has a hard time finding food or is killed by the animals that
"own" the territory it was released into.


From mpritche@leo.vsla.edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:38 EST 1995
Article: 56512 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: mpritche@leo.vsla.edu (Marge Pritchett)
Subject: BEES IN MULCH
Message-ID: <1995Mar1.150147.15768@leo.vsla.edu>
Organization: Virginia State Library
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 15:01:47 GMT
Lines: 16
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During this past summer and now this spring I have noticed bees
building small hives in the leaf mulch in my gardens.  I try to
carefully move them to another part of the yard but they always
return.  In the 22 years I have lived here I have never had
this problem until now.  I also noticed them drilling holes
under the railing of my deck! These are the black and yellow
bumble bees.  Any ideas? 
I don't want to spray them as I really do appreciate what they
do for my garden, but I don't want to get stung one day while
poking around the mulch either. 
Thanks.
-- 
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:
Marge C. Pritchett		  U.S. 3rd District Court of Appeals
mpritche@leo.vsla.edu  				  (804)771-2219 x226
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


From d_swartz@gate.net Mon Mar  6 10:41:39 EST 1995
Article: 56513 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!tequesta.gate.net!dffl2-18.gate.net!user
From: d_swartz@gate.net (Debbie DeNeese)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Using Epsom salts in in plant soil?
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 14:15:03 -1812
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <d_swartz-2802951415030001@dffl2-18.gate.net>
References: <65361-793132823@mindlink.bc.ca> <epur01-2202952324010001@fl08ara056.comm.mot.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dffl2-18.gate.net
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In article <epur01-2202952324010001@fl08ara056.comm.mot.com>,
epur01@email.mot.com (Don Burns) wrote:

  > Epsom salt is also known as magnesium sulfate.  Here in south Florida we
  > have many palms that demand magnesium in their diets lest their fronds
  > will begin to turn yellow.  It can be dissolved in water with a drop or
  > two of dishwash detergent as a wetting agent and sprayed on the fronds, or
  > the epsom salts can be applied to the soil. The latter is a much slower
  > means to get the nutrient to the plant.  On the other hand not all palms
  > can absorb nutrients through their fronds.

Hi Don...got a question for you...how 'bout my Malayan Golden hybrid,
which has a gold cast to the fronds and orange coconuts?  I feed it
regularly with palm food, but darned if I can tell if the fronds are
yellow to the extent of the variety or as a sign of distress. It's a
vigorous growing and fruiting tree, but always the worrier I want to be
sure it's getting everything it needs...

BTW, what is the ratio of epsom salt to water for the foliar feeding?

I sure hope the owners of many of the Canary Isle Date Palms in this So.
Fla. area are reading this, as most of them look like they could use a
good shot of micro's esp. magnesium.

Thanks in advance for your help...

=http://inca.gate.net:80/~d_swartz/neurodisc/html/neurodisc.html=
 Debbie DeNeese                     Email:  d_swartz@gate.net
 Neurodisc Records, Inc.            (finger for pgp public key)             
 450 N. Park Road  Suite 700             (305) 963-0555 [voice]
 Hollywood, FL   33021                   (305) 964-1117 [fax]
-= http://dswartz.dffl.gate.net/neurodisc/html/neurodisc.html =-


From DRPC2@Delphi.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:41 EST 1995
Article: 56514 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: DRPC2@Delphi.com (Jason Gerbino)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bamboo in Shade (SE)
Date: 28 Feb 1995 08:26:11 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <3iumn3$96u@news1.delphi.com>
References: <Pine.3.89.9501310926.B19620-0100000@sol1.solinet.net> <3hocme$48b@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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X-Mailer: Delphi Internet Jet SST v3.002B (Beta)
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On 02-26-95, stephenk9@aol.com adduced to Unknown...

>Do you know where I can purchase Bamboo which will grow in the Northeast?

        After seeing an address for a local Bamboo supplier in the
Northeast, I stopped by his greenhouse. I was *impressed*. This man knows
his bamboo, and the prices are consistent with his quality and stock.

        New England Bamboo Company
        P.O. Box 358
        Rockport, MA 01966
        508-546-3581

        As soon as the ground here unfreezes, I'm going to buy some of his
bamboo; he has a number of varieties which are rated cold-hardy to -25
degrees F.

Jason
     Delphi Internet Jet Technical Support (ver. 3.002B)
     Dr. PC         (DRPC, DRPC2, BOSK1, BOSK2; all @delphi.com)


From tonyp@convex.com Mon Mar  6 10:41:42 EST 1995
Article: 56515 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!tonyp
From: tonyp@convex.com (tony j. podrasky)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Slugs
Date: 1 Mar 1995 16:53:29 GMT
Organization: Coyotes R Us - ask me about my Coyotes
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3j28q9$mkp@convex.convex.com>
References: <CKwGRIUV.nfjvup@flashmag.flashmag.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mikey.convex.com
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:15539 rec.gardens:56515
Status: O
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How 'bout a nice duckie or chickie?

Environmentally friendly, fun to watch, and good eggs, too. 

This is, after all, misc.rural.

	:-) 
--
    Tony J. Podrasky      - When I die, I'd like to go peacefully.
     San Diego , Ca            In my sleep.   Like my grandfather.
    tonyp@convex.com        Not screaming. 
QSL? QRU? QRZ? QLZ? QFA?           Like the passengers in his car.


From mhg3@cornell.edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:44 EST 1995
Article: 56516 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!NewsWatcher!user
From: mhg3@cornell.edu (MiKe Griggs)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: BEES IN MULCH
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 12:00:37 -0500
Organization: USDA-ARS-PPRU
Lines: 24
Sender: mhg3@cornell.edu (Verified)
Message-ID: <mhg3-0103951200370001@128.253.66.35>
References: <1995Mar1.150147.15768@leo.vsla.edu>
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In article <1995Mar1.150147.15768@leo.vsla.edu>, mpritche@leo.vsla.edu
(Marge Pritchett) wrote:
It sounds like you have attracted Carpenter Bees.  They look very similar
to bumble bees.  They can be very destructive because of there habit of
cutting galleries in unfinished wood.  To stop them from mining your
railing you should fill the existing holes and then stain, paint or
varnish the surfaces.  This will repulse them (if not divert them to
another suitable surface).  They can be real troublesome.  Hope this
helps  Mike

PS they are fun to watch as they provide there galleries with food for brood.



> During this past summer and now this spring I have noticed bees
> building small hives in the leaf mulch in my gardens.  I try to
> carefully move them to another part of the yard but they always
> return.  In the 22 years I have lived here I have never had
> this problem until now.  I also noticed them drilling holes
> under the railing of my deck! These are the black and yellow
> bumble bees.  Any ideas? 
> I don't want to spray them as I really do appreciate what they
> do for my garden, but I don't want to get stung one day while
> poking around the mulch either.


From fruhbaur@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:46 EST 1995
Article: 56517 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!alpha1.csd.uwm.edu!fruhbaur
From: fruhbaur@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Jennifer Fruhbauer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: False Aralia propagation
Date: 1 Mar 1995 17:09:07 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.169.1
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my Dizygotheca elegantissima was struck by a bad case of scale that i have
only recently been able to control.  It is several "trees" in a large
pot, and due to the infection, a lot of the little tree-lets died away,
and now it looks quite straggley with leaves only near the tops of the
branches.  I would like to try to propogate it so that it could look more
full and bushy rather than.  I found a source that says it can possibly be
propagated with stem cuttings, however, there arent enough leaves (i think)
or leaf clusters to yield a large plant or a number of plants...any
suggestions on this?

jennifer


From dragon@csulb.edu Mon Mar  6 10:41:48 EST 1995
Article: 56518 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!csulb.edu!beach.csulb.edu!dragon
From: Brian Lo <dragon@csulb.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FAQ: Tomatoes
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 09:07:39 -0800
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
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                                    TOMATOES
                             Lycopersicon esculentum

      Tomatoes, tree tomatoes (also call tamarillos), tomatillos and husk
tomatoes (also called ground cherries) are all in the Solanaceae family.  

      The tomatillo and related husk tomatoes belong to a different taxonomic
genus (Physalis ixocarpa) and differ from tomatoes in that their fruit is
encased in a thin husk which is removed when the fruit is used.  Tomatillos
produce large branched plants.  Tomatillos are picked when the fruit has
reached full size and is still green.  The fruit is often mixed with hot
peppers and other ingredients to make green salsa.  Varieties of Tomatillo
are:  Tomatillo Green (used in "salsa"); also Tomatillo Purple (purple fruit);
Rendidor (commonly used in Mexico).

      The husk tomato or ground cherry fruit is much smaller than the toma-
tillo, is very sweet and used mainly for jam and preserves after the fruit has
ripened and turned yellow.  Varieties of husk tomato are:  Husk Tomato Goldie, 
Husk Tomato Strawberry.

      The tree tomato belongs to still another genus, Cyphomandra betacea, and
is a tropical plant not suited for out-door production in the Pacific North-
west.  Its fruit, promoted by New Zealand, is marketed in the U.S.A. under the
trade name Tamarillo.  The fruit resembles a small eggplant more than a
tomato, may be red or yellow, is bland or semi-sweet.  Tree tomato plants are
a small perennial bush or shrub 6 to 10 feet tall, frost sensitive, and bear
after the second year.

TOMATO VARIETIES

      Tomato varieties mature over a wide range,  commonly from 75 days for
early cherry types to 85 days for early full size fruit types, 100 days for
medium, and 110 days for later, full season varieties from direct seeded
plantings.  Transplanted plantings would be about 25 days less.

      In the arid, irrigated areas east of the Cascades tomato production may
be severely limited by curly top virus.  Commercial production is limited to
the use of varieties with resistance.  Resistant varieties have been developed
and released by Dr. Mark Martin through the A.R.S., U.S.D.A. curly top
breeding program at the Irrigated Agriculture Research and Extension Center, 
Prosser WA.  These varieties are all red-fruited:  Columbian, Rowpac, Roza,
Saladmaster, released in the 1960s for fresh market, and a "CVF" series
released in the 1980s for processing and market.  Limited quantities of seed
and descriptions of these varieties is available from: 

      Dr. Erik Sorensen,  WSU Cooperative Extension, Courthouse, 
      Pasco WA 99301, phone:  509/545-3511  

      Dr. Dennis Johnson, WSU, Rt. 2, Box 2953-A, 
      Prosser WA 99350-9687, phone 509/786-2226

      Mr. Gary Pelter, WSU Cooperative Extension, Courthouse,
      Ephrata, WA 9882, phone 509/754-2011 ext.412

      Standard tomato varieties, red:

      Bush types: Early to mid season - Santiam, Oregon Spring, Oregon Star,
Oregon Pride (all seedless, with the latter two being large-fruited, resem-
bling paste tomatoes), Springset, New Yorker, Fireball, Earlirouge, Earli-
bright, Coldset, Jetfire, Willamette, Pilgrim (early with multiple disease
resistance). 

      Bush types: Mid Season to Late - Pik Red, Celebrity, Pik Rite, Castlehy
101, Carnival, All Star, Setmore, Supersonic, Royal Flush,  Monte Carlo,
Better Boy, Carmen, Medford, Milagro, Sunny, Summerset.  Research in the
Hermiston area indicates that Baja, Keno, Oregon Spring and Valerie performed
well.  

      For trial:  Spectrum 882 (solid, multi-purpose, medium to large oval
fruit); Merced (tolerant to gray wall), Solar Set (reported high temperature
tolerance but susceptible to gray wall), Colonial (jointless stem, green
shoulder, large); Sunrise (VFF,Alt,TMV); Daybreak (VFF,Asc,St); Big Beef (All
America, medium-early beefsteak, VFF,Alt,St,N,TMV).

      Staking:  Early Girl, Fantastic, Keno.

      Cherry type, red,indeterminate: Sweet l00, Large German Cherry.
      Cherry type, red, determinate: Small Fry, Presto, Sweetie, Cerry Grande.

      Processing (paste) tomatoes: Bellstar, Chico III, Murrieta, Reliant,
Nova, RomaVF, Hybrid 882, La Rossa, Milano, Heinz 2653, Vega (VFF).

      Yellow:  Yellow, large fruited types: Orange Queen, Jubilee, Lemon Boy,
Golden Boy.
      Yellow cherry type, determinate: Gold Nugget.
      Yellow cherry type, indeterminate: Yellow Plum. 

      Yellow and red striped:  Tigerella, Tigerette.

      Novelty: White - Great White (beefsteak type), White Beauty.  Pink -
Pink Girl, Ponderosa Pink (beefsteak type), Mac Pink.  Pink Grapefruit (a
yellow-skin fruit with pink flesh).  Yellow and red stuffing:  Yellow Stuffer,
a pepper-like tomato, hollow, for stuffing.  Liberty Bell, a red pepper-like,
hollow fruit used for stuffing.

      Greenhouse:  See separate file on greenhouse tomato production.

SEED COMPANIES

Asgrow Seed Company, POB 5038, Salinas CA 93915
R.S. de Ruiter Seeds Inc.  3001 Bethel Rd. Suite 207, POB 20228, Columbus, OH
      43220  ph: 614/459 1498
Ferry-Morse Seed Co. POB 4938, 555 Codoni Ave. Modesto, CA 95352
Harris Moran Seed Co. 3670 Buffalo Rd. Rochester, NY 14624
La Marche Seeds International, POB 190, Dixon, CA 95620
Nichol's Garden Nursery, 1190 North Pacific Highway, Albany, OR 97321
Nunhems Seeds Corp. POB 18, Lewisville, ID 83431 ph: 208/754-8666
Petoseed Co. Inc. POB 4206, Saticoy, CA 93303
Rogers NK. POB 4727, Boise ID 83711  ph: 208/322-7272
Stokes Seeds Inc. POB 548, Buffalo, NY 14240  ph: 416/688-4300
Thompson and Morgan. POB 1308 Jackson, NJ 08527  ph: 201/363-2225
Vilmorin Inc.  6104 Yorkshire Ter.  Bethesda MD 20814  ph: 301/564-6246
W. Osborne Seed Co. Int'l. 1679 Highway 99 South, Mount Vernon, WA 98273 

SEED AND SEED TREATMENT

      Tomato seed numbers approximately 11,500 per ounce.  Most of the new
hybrids are sold by seed number.  Use only treated seed from a reliable seed
source.  Some seed companies now can furnish tomato seed that has been
"vigorized" or "conditioned" to allow germination under adverse (cool)
temperature conditions.

      Research in Indiana has demonstrated a benefit from pop-up fertilizers. 
In direct seeded plantings, spray directly on the seed a solution of 2-6-0
(made up of 1 part 10-34-0 : 4 part water) at 1 pint per 100 lineal feet of
row (use 1/2 this rate on sandy soils). 

TRANSPLANT PRODUCTION

      Use l or more oz. of seed per acre, depending on the variety and
required plant population.  Sow them in the greenhouse 6 to 8 weeks before
field transplanting.  Seedlings are transplanted to other flats when the first
true leaf has formed.  Veneer bands or jiffy pots may be used to advantage. 
Space between the plants should be 2 to 2 l/2 in.  Provide adequate ventila-
tion during the heat of the day, particularly after watering, which should be
completed before l p.m.  Water plants before signs of wilting appear.

      Tomato is a warm-temperature vegetable and requires a long growing
season.  Transplants should be kept close to the following temperatures:  64
to 70 F during the day, 55 to 61 F at night until the seedlings are thinned
out.

      When the first true leaf has formed, early flowering can be increased by
a one-week cold treatment at 54 F.  Caution:  Do not subject transplants with
4-5 true leaves to cold temperatures (around 50 F. nights and 60-65 F. days)
for more than a week since this will increase catfaced fruit.

TRANSPLANTING

      Condition transplants for 1-2 days before transplanting to the field by
slightly reducing the moisture and maintaining approximate outdoor tempera-
tures. Do not over-harden (see note on catfacing above).  Thoroughly water
plants l2 to l4 hours before transplanting to the field.  Plants should be dug
or cut loose from the soil when being transplanted; ensure the roots are not
exposed to sun or drying wind.

      Apply a starter fertilizer solution to the transplants when transplan-
ting to the field.  Select starter fertilizers that have the highest level of
phosphorus available, such as 10-52-17, 11-48-0, 11-55-0 dry fertilizers or
10-34-0 liquid fertilizer.  Make up a stock solution of 3 lbs of the dry, such
as 10-52-17, or 2 pints of liquid 10-34-0 per 50 gallons of water.  Use 1/2
pint of of this stock solution per plant, applying the solution directly to
the plant roots when setting in the field. 
TEMPERATURE

      Recent research indicates that a temperature of  68-78 F. is ideal for
optimal growth.

SPACING

      Use rows 4-5 ft. apart and space transplants 12 to 48 inches apart in
the row, depending on variety.

      Direct seeding should be done with early varieties only.  Drop 1-3 seeds
per hill and space 9-12 in. apart in rows spaced 48-60 inches.

      Tomatillos are usually grown from transplants planted in rows 5 feet
apart with a 2.5 foot spacing in the row.

WINDBREAKS

      Use windbreaks as necessary especially in eastern Oregon.  Grain wind-
breaks have been found effective when grain rows are used for each tomato row. 
Winter wheat varieties, rye, or oats can be used.  Spring barley may be used
for February plantings.  Seed grain thickly, 2-3 seeds per inch.  This requi-
res about 10 lbs. of barley, 9 lbs. of wheat, or 8 lbs. of rye to seed grain
rows 12 feet apart.  Tomatoes and windbreaks should be cultivated after they
are well established.

FERTILIZER

      A soil test is the most accurate guide to fertilizer requirements.  As a
general guideline before transplanting, broadcast and disc in the following:

      Nitrogen: 75-100 (N) lb./acre 
      Phosphate: 100-150 (P2 O5) lb./acre 
      Potash: 100-150 (K2 O) lb./acre 
      Sulfur: 25-30 (S) lb./acre

      Side dress with 25-50 lb. of nitrogen per acre when first fruits appear. 

      Where mulching and trickle irrigation are practiced, additional nitrogen
can be fed through the trickle irrigation system at 15 lb/acre when the first
fruit begins to set and an additional 15 lb/acre four weeks after.  To prevent
clogging or plugging from occurring use soluble forms of nitrogen (Urea  or
Ammonium nitrate), and chlorinate the system once a month with a l0 to 50 ppm.
chlorine solution.  Chlorinate more frequently if the flow rate decreases. 

      Avoid excessive nitrogen applications which can cause excessive vine
growth and delay maturity.

PLASTIC GROUND MULCHES AND ROW COVERS

      The use of black plastic ground mulch is recommended, especially in
Western Oregon.  Plastic mulch conserves moisture, increases soil temperatures
and protects fruit from ground rot, enhances earliness and increases yields.

      Spunbonded polyester or propylene, and perforated polyethylene row
covers may be used for 4 to 8 weeks immediately after transplanting or direct
seeding.  Covers should be removed when plants begin to flower or if tempera-
tures become excessive under the covers.  Do not allow temperatures to exceed
90 F for more than two or three consecutive days.  Row covers increase heat
unit accumulation by 2 to 3 times over ambient.  Two to four degrees of frost
protection may also be obtained at night.  Soil temperatures and root growth
are also increased under row covers as are early yields, and in some cases
total yields.  

IRRIGATION

      Apply water uniformly to reduce incidence of blossom end rot.  Irrigate
carefully after fruit ripens to reduce fruit decay and cracking.  A total of
12-15 inches may be needed in western Oregon.  Approximate summer irrigation
needs for the Hermiston area have been found to be: 3.5 inches in May, 5.0 in
June, 7.5 in July, and 7.0 in August.

      Soil type does not affect the amount of total water needed, but does
dictate frequency of water application.  Lighter soils need more frequent
water applications, but less water applied per application.

CHEMICAL FRUIT RIPENING

      Ethrel may be used for uniform ripening for once-over harvest and to
enhance ripening in late varieties, or during late seasons, or when ripening
is delayed.  The proper use of Ethrel can advance harvest about 5-7 days. 
Apply when fruit is at the mature green stage (when fruit locules contain
jelly). Ethrel is effective only on mature-green fruit.  The key to good
results is good coverage.  Apply 3.0-4.0 pints Ethrel (2 lbs/gal formulation)
in 40-80 gal. water/acre.  Use higher rates when day temperatures are less
than 64 F and tomato growth is dense. Ideal temperature range is 75-85 F. Do
not exceed 6.5 pints total, or excess residues may result.  CONSULT PRODUCT
LABEL FOR FULL INSTRUCTIONS AND CAUTIONS.  If tomatoes are water stressed,
defoliation may occur.   Fruit do not appreciably increase in size after
Ethrel treatment.

      Harvest fruit at proper maturity, generally l4 to 2l days after treat-
ment.  Observe treated fruit frequently for condition of crop ripening.  Cool
temperatures can slow Ethrel absorption and color development and extend
period between treatment and harvest.   

NON-PATHOGENIC FRUIT DISORDERS

      Blossom-End Rot:  Varieties differ in susceptibility.  Caused by calcium
imbalance or deficiency during critical stage of fruit differentiation and
expansion, usually induced by eneven watering or water stress.

      Gray-Wall:  This disorder appears as gray or brown blotchy areas in the
fruit wall tissue, beginning when the fruit is green.  It can occur on more
than half of the fruit of a particular field.  Cross-sections of fruit show
blackened tissue. This causes the external fruit color to look somewhat gray. 
When the fruit ripens, the area remains firm and turns from green to yellow,
rather than red.  Fruit thus ripens unevenly.  The affected area appears woody
when cut.  White wall tissue has been considered to be an early stage of gray
wall, but may also be related to other disorders (see "internal white tissue"
section below).  A definite cause for gray wall has not been defined but a
number of factors play a role in predisposing fruit to gray wall, these are
listed in their considered lessening degree of importance:

      1.  Low light or prolonged cloudy periods.
      2.  Excess nitrogen causing excessive plant vigor.
      3.  High soil moisture from excess rain or irrigation.
      4.  Potassium deficiency.
      5.  Soil compaction.
      6.  Temperature fluctuations, particularly unusually cool nights and
warm days.

      Tobacco mosaic virus is also reported to be involved in gray wall.  In
those cases the disorder is also called internal browning.  That tobacco
mosaic virus is involved in a disorder called internal brownig is not in
dispute.  What is in dispute is wheather the two disorders are the same or
seperate.  In a few other cases certain bacteria and fungi are thought to also
be implicated.  Another confusion is that gray wall is also sometimes called
blotchy ripening! 

      Information from Florida indicates that the varieties Merced and
Floridade may have tolerance to the conditions that predispose tomatoes to
gray wall

      Blotchy Ripening (see gray wall).

      Internal white tissue:  The expression of white tissue varies widely,
and is considered dependent on cultivar and environmental conditions.  It is
sometimes attributed to gray wall.  Potassium deficiency and high temperatures
are believed to aggravate the problem.

      Solar yellowing (also called yellow shoulder, yellow top and persistent
green shoulder):  This problem occurs most commonly on fruit ripening in late
May and June when days are longest, sunlight is most intense, and temperatures
exceed 85 F.  Under such conditions, lycopene (the red pigment in tomato)
fails to develop normally in some varieties, leaving only the carotene
(yellow) pigment to show at the shoulder or, with green-shoulder type toma-
toes, where the dark green portion was.  Even with temperatures under 85 F.
the surface temperature of exposed fruit, especially those with dark green
shoulders can become high enough to inhibit normal red color development.  In
other parts of the day or night, when temperatures do not exceed 85 F. some
red color may develop, resulting in an orange rather than a yellow abnormali-
ty. To reduce this problem, choose uniform-ripening varieties and protect
fruit surfaces from short-wave solar radiation by choosing varieties having
good fruit cover or, by the use of non-phytotoxic white wash applied when
fruit are at the mature-green stage.  The white wash will have to be removed
before the fruit is marketed. 

      Sunscald;  Mature green and tomatoes just turning red are most suscept-
ible.  Fruit develops white necrotic tissue surrounded by a yellow halo.  The
area may be sunken and wrinkled.  Damage is confined mainly to the upper
portion of the fruit, and is seen where fruit that has been covered by leaves
is suddenly exposed to light.  The area can later be covered by a black fungus
when the rest of the fruit turns red.

      Roughness and scars:  Varieties differ in susceptibility.  associated
with large fruit.  Particularly severe when young plants are exposed to cool
temperatures, and night temperatures below 50 F. when flower clusters are
differentiating.

      Fruit cracks:  Varieties differ in susceptibility.  Promoted by fluctua-
tions in soil moisture and temperature.  Often seen when varieties developed
for hot, arid climates are subjected to humid, wet conditions.  Cracks may be
radial or concentric.

HARVESTING, HANDLING AND STORAGE

      Tomato yields vary with area and number of harvests.  Yields may range
from 230 to 270 cwt./acre, or about 1200 20 lb. boxes per acre.

      Tomatoes may be harvested at the mature green stage (when the fruit
cavity is filled by gel), semi-ripe (with different amounts of red pigmenta-
tion) or fully ripe, depending or marketing requirement.  They are very
perishable and subject to surface and internal damage, and must be handled
accordingly.  Tomatoes are sensitive to chilling injury which differs with
maturity of the fruit.  Proper temperature management for ripening and storage
are critical to maintain quality.

      STORAGE (quoted form USDA Ag. Handbook # 66):

      Store mature-green tomatoes at 55 to 70 F; ripe fruit at 45 to 50 F and
a relative humidity of 90 to 95%.

      Mature-green tomatoes cannot be successfully stored at temperatures that
greatly delay ripening.  Tomatoes held for 2 weeks or longer at 55 F may
develop abnormal amount of decay and may fail to develop a deep red color. 
The optimum temperatures for ripening mature-green tomatoes range from 65 to
70 F.  Tomatoes will not ripen normally at temperatures above 80 F.  A
temperature range of 57 to 61 f is probably most desirable for slowing
ripening without increasing decay problems.  At these temperatures the more
mature fruit within the mature-green range will ripen enough to be packaged
for retailing in 7 to 14 days.

      Fruit held below 50 F become susceptible to alternaria decay during
subsequent ripening.  Increased decay during ripening occurs after 6 days'
exposure at 32 or 9 days at 40 F.  Mature-green tomatoes may also be damaged
by low temperatures in the field.  A high percentage of tomatoes exposed to
temperatures below 50 F for a week before harvest would probably develop
alternaria rot even at recommended storage temperatures.  Some loss due to
chilling can be expected in fall-grown tomatoes exposed for over 95 hours to
temperatures below 60 F during the week before harvest.  Severity of chilling
increases with increases in exposure time, so 135 hours' exposure to below 60
F may result in heavy losses.

      Chilling periods for fruit while in the field, during transit, and in
storage have a cumulative effect.  Thus, fruit chilled for only a short period
in the field can become very susceptible to decay when held for only a short
period at chilling temperature during transit or storage.  Tomatoes should be
kept out of cold, wet rooms because in addition to potential development of
chilling injury, extended refrigeration damages the ability of fruit to
develop desirable fresh tomato flavor.

      Ripening of tomatoes is initiated by the ethylene they produce.  How-
ever, in commercial practice, mature-green tomatoes are commonly treated with
supplemental ethylene to hasten ripening within a lot.  For treatment,
tomatoes are exposed to 100 to 150 ppm ethylene for 24 to 48 hours at 68 to 77
F and 85 to 95% relative humidity.  Ethylene is applied in a fairly airtight
room by a shot method, a generator, or a flow-through system.  Immature
tomatoes may ripen with supplemental ethylene, but the ripened fruit will lack
quality.  Fruit beyond the breaker stage do not benefit from supplemental
ethylene because their ripening processes already have been initiated by their
own ethylene.

      Semi-ripe tomatoes with 60 to 90% color can be held up to a week at 50
F.  If held longer, they will probably not have a normal shelf life during
retailing.  Riper tomatoes will tolerate lower temperatures.  For example,
"firm-rip" tomatoes can be held a few days at 45 to 50.  Long holding of
ripened tomatoes at low temperatures (40 and below) results in loss of color,
shelf life, and firmness.

      Fully ripe:  When it is necessary to hold fully ripe tomatoes for the
longest possible time before their immediate consumption upon removal from
storage, as for example, for ship-board or overseas use, they can be held at
32 to 35 F for up to 3 weeks.  Such tomatoes, although acceptable, would not
be of high quality and would have little if any shelf life remaining.  Mature-
green, turning, or pink tomatoes should be ripened before storing at such low
temperatures.

      A storage temperature of 50 to 55 F is recommended for semi-ripe to
fully ripe greenhouse-grown tomatoes.  Ripening of less mature tomatoes at 70
F is recommended before storage at 50 to 55 F.

      Research showed that an atmosphere with 3% oxygen and 97% nitrogen
extended the life of mature-green tomatoes up to 6 weeks at 55 F and that the
flavor of the ripened fruit had no off-flavor and was acceptable to the taste
panel.  A 1% or lower oxygen level can cause off-flavor.  Increased carbon
dioxide levels provide no benefit; in fact, levels of 3 to 5% have been
reported to cause injury at 55 F.          

PACKAGING 

      Cherry tomatoes are commonly packaged in 8 lb. baskets.

      Mature green tomatoes are commonly packaged in 30 lb. cartons and
wirebound crates, volume fill pack.

      Pink and ripe tomatoes are commonly packaged in 20 lb. two-layer flats
and cartons, tray pack; or 28 lb. three-layer lugs and cartons, tray pack; or,
30 lb. cartons, loose pack.

                           PEST CONTROL FOR TOMATOES

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW, TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST PEST
CONTROL HANDBOOKS, ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY, AND ARE REVISED ONLY ANNUALLY. 
BECAUSE OF CONSTANTLY CHANGING LABELS, LAWS, AND REGULATIONS, OREGON STATE
UNIVERSITY CAN ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF USE OF CHEMICALS
SUGGESTED HERE.  IN ALL CASES, READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS AND PRECAUTION-
ARY STATEMENTS ON THE SPECIFIC PESTICIDE PRODUCT LABEL.

                          USE PESTICIDES SAFELY!

Wear protective clothing and safety devices as recommended on the label. 
Bathe or shower after each use.

Read the pesticide label--even if you've used the pesticide before.  Follow
closely the instructions on the label (and any other directions you have).

Be cautious when you apply pesticides.  Know your legal responsibility as a
pesticide applicator.  You may be liable for injury or damage resulting from
pesticide use.

WEED CONTROL

     When black plastic ground mulch is not used, cultivate as often as
necessary when weeds are small.  Proper cultivation, field selection and
rotations can reduce or eliminate the need for chemical weed control.

     THE WEED TREATMENTS LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST
WEED CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS
FOR CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES, AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

STALE SEEDBEDS FOR VEGETABLE PRODUCTION

Stale seedbeds are sometimes used for vegetable production when other selec-
tive weed control practices are limited or unavailable.  The concept depends
on controlling the first flush of emerged weeds before planting or emergence
of the crop followed by minimal soil disturbance which reduces subsequent weed
flushes during establishment of the crop.  Following establishment, other weed
control practices including cultivation or use of other herbicides can be
used.

1.  Prepare a seedbed, preferably 2 to 3 weeks before planting to achieve 
    maximum weed seed germination near the soil surface.  Soil temperatures 
    and moisture must be reasonable or results will be erratic.

2.  Plant the crop with minimum soil disturbance.  Otherwise, new weed seed 
    will be exposed to favorable germinating conditions.

3.  Just before or after planting but before crop emergence, treat the 
    field by flaming or with herbicide to kill all germinated or exposed 
    weeds.


Weed Treatment             Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flaming                                      

      Use liquid propane or similar fuel-burning equipment to quickly sear the
      weeds, but not consume them with flame. 
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
paraquat                             0.625 to 0.94 lb ai/A     
  Gramoxone Extra    
  (see remarks)                                

      Restricted-use pesticide.  Do not ingest or inhale spray mist.  Wearing
      protective face shields, respirators, and clothing is advised.  Apply    
      during or after planting, but before crop emergence.  Add a nonionic
      surfactant or crop oil concentrate according to label specifications,
      taking care to avoid anionic formulations that react in the tank to form
      insoluble precipitates.  Exposed crop plants will be killed. Do not
      apply preplant or preemergence to soils lacking clay minerals, such as
      peat, muck, pure sand, or artificial  planting media.  (Acts as contact;
      absorbs energy produced by photosynthesis forming peroxides that disrupt
      living cells.) 
______________________________________________________________________________

PREEMERGENCE SOIL-APPLIED
DIRECT-SEEDED AND TRANSPLANTS

Weed Treatment              Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
napropamide             1 to 2 lb ai/A 
  Devrinol                                     

      Apply and incorporate uniformly 1 to 2 inches deep.  Use lower rates on
      light, sandy, or coarse-textured soils.  Following harvest, deep
      moldboard plowing or disk plowing must be completed before planting
      succeeding crops. (Inhibits roots of seedlings). 
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
bensulide               4 to 5 lb ai/A             
  Prefar                                       

      Apply before seeding or transplanting and incorporate 1 to 2 inches deep
      either simultaneously or immediately by cross-disking or using a PTO 
      rotary tiller, or apply preemergence to weeds soon after seeding or
      transplanting and follow with 1-inch overhead moisture.  Sometimes the   
      first flush of weeds must be controlled with cultivation before herbi-
      cide begins to control grass.  Consult label for planting sensitive
      crops within 18 months.  (Inhibits mitosis). 
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
DCPA                    9 lb ai/A                
  Dacthal                         
  (transplants only)                           

      Apply 4 to 6 weeks after transplanting to weed-free soil.  Soil should
      be moist and additional water applied for activation. Performs poorly in
      western Oregon and Washington.  Consult label for planting sensitive
      crops within 12 months.  Results can be improved with overhead irriga-
      tion applied immediately after spraying.  (Inhibits mitosis).        
______________________________________________________________________________

ACTIVATED CHARCOAL SEED PROTECTION

Several Pacific Northwest grass seed crops are protected from herbicide injury
with the use of activated charcoal which adsorbs and detoxifies or inactivates
the herbicide.  In vegetables, activated charcoal can be mixed with horticul-
tural grade vermiculite and applied as an anticrustant/seed protectant.  The
activated charcoal vermiculite mix is placed within the seed furrow using a
positive feed device.  Herbicides must not leach excessively or move readily
from crop roots into the plant.  Although crop safety can be enhanced, weeds
emerging from within the treated area also are protected.

Another use for activated charcoal involves seed protection from herbicides
that leach into the seed zone from excessive rainfall. Seed coatings of
activated charcoal would reduce the active concentration of herbicide at or
very near the seed during the germination process.

Activated charcoal/vermiculite mix:  Thoroughly mix 1 lb activated             
                  charcoal/ft3 of number 2 or 3 grade horticultural vermicu-
                  lite.  If severe dustiness is a problem, add a small amount
                  of water.  Apply 1 ft3  of mixture/600 ft. of seeded row or  
                  approximately 15 cu.ft/A.  Fill the seed furrow using a      
                  positive feed applicator and press with a press wheel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pebulate                4.0 to 6.0 lb ai/A        
  Tillam                                       

      Apply and immediately incorporate prior to seeding or transplanting, or
      at layby, apply as a directed spray and incorporate.  Do not apply  
      within 8 days of harvest.  Use the 4 lb. rate on coarse soils and on
      soils with less than 10% organic matter.  Do not use hot caps on
      transplanted tomatoes. 
______________________________________________________________________________

POSTEMERGENCE

Weed Treatment              Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
metribuzin              Broadcast                
  Lexone, Sencor        0.25 to 0.5 lb ai/A      
  (established                                 
  tomatoes only)                               

      Apply as a single treatment or split application allowing a nimimum of
      14 days between treatments at 0.25 to 0.37 lb ai/A to tomatoes with at   
      least 5 to 6 true leaves, but before weeds are 1 inch tall. Use lower
      rates on soils of 0.5 to 2% organic matter, but do not use on soils
      containing less than 0.5% organic matter.  Do not use surfactant,
      tank-mix with other pesticides, apply within 24 hours of other pesticide
      applications, nor apply within 7 days of harvest.  Do not apply within 3
      days after periods of cool, wet, or cloudy weather. Do not exceed 1.0 lb
      ai/A per season.  Read the label carefully and note other precautions.
      (Inhibits photosynthesis).                                               
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Directed spray           
                        0.5 to 1.0 lb ai/A        

      Apply as a directed spray, either in a single treatment or split
      application allowing a minimum of 14 days between treatments when
      intense weed pressure exists or in fields with hard to control weeds. 
      Do not exceed 1.0 lb ai/A per season.  Note all other precautions listed
      above and on label. 
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sethoxydim              0.29 lb ai/A   
  Poast              

      Identify susceptible grasses and apply at optimum growth stage listed on
      the label.  Add 2 pints/A nonphytotoxic crop oil concentrate to im-  
      prove leaf absorption.  Erratic control often occurs when grasses are
      stunted or stressed from drought, high temperatures, or low fertility. 
      Resistant grasses include annual bluegrass and all fine fescues, whereas
      quackgrass can be suppressed.  Do not apply within 20 days of harvest,
      nor exceed 4.5 pints/A per season.  (Inhibits fatty acid production,
      cell membranes, and new growth.)
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________


INSECT CONTROL

     Proper rotations and field selection can minimize problems with insects. 

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST INSECT
CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS ARE
CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

Insect and Description                  Control, Active Ingredient Per Acre
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aphids, including                           endosulfan - 0.5 to 1 lb
Green peach aphid                                                        
 Myzus persicae                             malathion - 1 to 2 lb

Potato aphid                                diazinon - 0.25 lb
 Macrosiphum euphorbiae                      
                                            Phosdrin - 0.25 lb                
Yellowish, pink to pale green               
plant lice.                                 azinphosmethyl - 0.5 to 0.75 lb
                                            
                                            methyl parathion - 0.5 to 1.5 lb 

                                            Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb        

                                            dimethoate - 0.25 to 0.5 lb   
                                                                          
                                            Lannate - 0.45 to 0.9 lb     
                                                                          
                                            Di-Syston - 1 to 3 l          
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colorado Potato Beetle                      azinphosmethyl - 0.375 lb
Leptinotarsa decemlineata                                              
                                            Di-Syston - 1 to 3 lb      
Yellow and black striped beetle.                                       
Larvae reddish orange with two              carbaryl - 1 lb            
rows of black spots on each                                            
side.                                       endosulfan - 0.5 to 1.0 lb
                                                                       
                                            phosphamidon - 0.5 to 1.0 lb      
                                                                       
                                            methoxychlor - 1 to 3 b        

                                            Asana - 0.035 to 0.05 lb.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cutworms, armyworms                         carbaryl bait - 2.0 lb  
Different species                                                   
                                            Lannate - 0.45 lb      
Small to large larvae that feed                                     
on stems, foliage, and fruit.               Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb

                                            malathion - 3.5 lb      
                                            Armyworm only. 
                                            
                                            Bacillus thuringiensis - 
                                            1 to 2 qt.  Use an appropriate 
                                            spreader-sticker.

                                            azinphosmethyl - 0.75 to 1.5 lb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flea beetles and Cucumber Beetles           Di-Syston - 1 to 3 lb          
including Tuber flea beetle,                Flea beetle only.               
 Epitrix tuberis                                                           
                                            methoxychlor - 1 to 3 lb        
Small, oval, shiny bronze jump-                                             
ing beetles. Feed on foliage.               rotenone - .5 lb                
                                                                            
and Western spotted cucumber beetle         carbaryl - 0.5 to 1 lb          
 Diabrotica undecimpunctata                 Flea beetle only.  Extremely
                                            hazardous to pollinating bees.  
Yellowish-green, black-spot-                                                
ted beetle. Common to western               endosulfan - 0.5 to 1 lb
Oregon. Damaging to small                   Flea beetle only.               
plants.                                                                     
                                            Dibrom - 1 lb                   
                                            Flea beetle only.               

                                            azinphosmethyl - 0.5 to 0.75 lb    
                                            Flea beetle only.               
                                                                            
                                            Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb

                                            methyl paration - 1.0 to 1.5 lb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomato hornworm                             Dibrom - 1 lb                   
Manduca quinquemaculata 
                                            endosulfan - 0.5 to 1 lb
Mature caterpillar 4 to 5 inches                                            
long, pale green with a short               trichlorfon - 1 lb              
curved red horn on posterior                                                
end.                                        azinphosmethyl - 0.75 to 1.5 lb
                                                                            
                                            Asana - 0.015 to 0.03 lb.
                                                                            
                                            carbaryl - 1 to 2 lb. Extremely
                                            hazardous to pollinating bees.

                                            Lannate - 0.45 to 0.9 lb
                                                                            
                                            Bacillus thuringiensis - 1 to 2 
                                            qt.  Use a spreader sticker to 
                                            enhance control.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spider mites                                methyl parathion - 1.0 to 1.5 lb
Tetranychus spp.                                                          
                                            Kelthane MF - 0.375 to 0.75 lb     
Tiny, spiderlike animals lo-                Do not feed.
cated on undersurfaces of foli-             
age. Feed on plant juices and               Phosdrin - 0.5 lb
cause leaves to yellow and die.                                           
                                            Dibrom - 1 lb                 
                                                                          
                                            Di-Syston - 1 to 3 lb         
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wireworms                                   diazinon - 3 to 4 lb 
Limonius spp.                                                    
                                            Telone II - preplant
Brown, jointed larvae of click
beetles. Kill young plants,                 Telone C-17 - preplant
weake