From jmh@anser.pdial.interpath.net Fri Mar 10 15:22:59 EST 1995
Article: 57726 of rec.gardens
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From: jmh@anser.pdial.interpath.net (Jeanne Hinds)
Newsgroups: news.config,news.groups,misc.consumers,misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Propose new group: alt.living.tightwad
Date: 9 Mar 1995 14:27:17 GMT
Organization: Interpath -- Providing Internet access to North Carolina
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Yes! Yes! Yes!  Six months ago I seriously thought of starting an alt.
group for tightwads based on the Tightwad Gazette but couldn't due to
other priorities.  SO, I am thrilled that someone else is proposing it!
 Yea!

+-----------------------------------------+---------------------------+
| Jeanne Hinds                            | Creativity is the art of  |
| jmh@anser.pdial.interpath.net           | concealing one's sources. |
+-----------------------------------------+---------------------------+


From dtos@lamar.ColoState.EDU Fri Mar 10 15:23:04 EST 1995
Article: 57729 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!purdue!yuma!lamar.ColoState.EDU!not-for-mail
From: dtos@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Duane Osmanski)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: re:seed problems
Date: 7 Mar 1995 13:29:36 -0700
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
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       Sorry about the other post
	At any rate,  I planted a corp of cabbage last year
	that was about 70,000 plants.  The best way I could 
	do it was put the seeds into the flats and incubate
	them for 48 hours at 84F then right into the green-
	house for about 6 weeks at 68F.  Most of the cabbage
	plants are cold hardy and don't need a lot of heat
	   Hope that helps 


From mfrost@primenet.com Fri Mar 10 15:23:06 EST 1995
Article: 57730 of rec.gardens
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From: mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: earwigs are not harmless
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 20:21:14 PST
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It is surprising how underestimated earwigs are. They are said to be harmless, 
but not for corn and lettuce. And, they will bite-they got into the garden 
boots, and gloves constantly.  I was disappointed by the slim advice 
available to control them, especially organically. After an explosion of 
earwigs in the past couple of years, I have finally seen their numbers 
decrease. How? I let three industrious Rhode Island Red hens seek and destroy. 
I did not worry about seedlings because the bugs would've gotten them anyway. 
After a year, the hens were happy, and the earwigs were lessened. BTW,  Ducks 
do not like them.
Regards, Martha
mfrost@primenet.com


From roy@harvey.com Fri Mar 10 15:23:09 EST 1995
Article: 57732 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.Gsu.EDU!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!news1.best.com!usenet
From: roy@harvey.com (Roy Harvey)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Savers Exchange
Date: 10 Mar 1995 00:44:21 GMT
Organization: Me
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References: <3igues$12v@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
 <3ivje5$689@tlab1.cs.unc.edu>  <USERID-030395110159@msp2-5.nas.mr.net>
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> MarkHess <markhess@aol.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know how the Seed Savers Exchange works.  I know you can
> become a member by sending so much money but what does that get you?  Do
> you then get a certain amount of seeds a year?  Do you have to grow
> something and send them seeds?  What is the deal?

Seed Savers Publications
Rural Route 3
Box 239
Decorah, IA 52101
319-382-5990

Seeds of Change / Deep Diversity
P.O.Box 15700
Santa Fe, NM  87506
505-983-8956


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Fri Mar 10 15:23:17 EST 1995
Article: 57736 of rec.gardens
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From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How do I grow perennials from seed???
Message-ID: <1995Mar7.141640.39826@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 7 Mar 95 14:16:40 -0600
References: <5g5atdU.dovetail@delphi.com>
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In article <5g5atdU.dovetail@delphi.com>, dovetail@delphi.com writes:
> I left a message before, but thought my delivery got me nowhere. I'm trying som
> something new: growing perennials from seed. Any experienced gardeners who
> can offer some advice? I'm using antique seeds, if that's of any help. Also, I
> live in
> live in North Central Massachusetts. I think the seeds I purchased can weather
> this climate. Help??????   THANKS!!!
Antique seeds?  Seeds of "old fashioned garden flowers"?  Or seeds more than 
a few years old?

If the seeds are old, go ahead and try.  If they're seeds of "old fashioned"
plants, probably no problem.

You should go to your library and pick up a book on seed germination
techniques (Parks has a good title many years ago, and Haring is the
author of another I remember) and a book on perennials.  Use the
information on the USDA hardiness zones to figure out if the seeds
you have will be hardy in your area.  

Seeds of perennials are often a bit trickier to grow than the standard
veggie seeds, but not much.  Why don't you post a list of the plants
you've got seeds for, and we'll try to help you with germination
times and temperature, and any pre-chilling that needs to happen.

Kay Klier    klier@cobra.uni.edu
 


From rcvaiden@prairienet.org Fri Mar 10 15:23:19 EST 1995
Article: 57737 of rec.gardens
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From: rcvaiden@prairienet.org (Robert C. Vaiden)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Dogtooth Violets
Date: 9 Mar 1995 14:46:38 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
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In a previous article, tony.kingsbury@welcom.gen.nz (Tony Kingsbury) says:

>Hi!
>   Could anyone tell me, please, what dogtooth violets are, and what
>soil/conditions they like? I've been given some bulbs.....& they are
>obviously no relation of ordinary violets. Any information would be much
>appreciated.
>            Thanks
>

Dogtooth violets (trout lilies) are native woodland plants-any
good woods here in Illinois may have CARPETS of them.  They 
bloom in spring for a couple weeks, then fade-the leaves
eventually turn yellow, and the plants disappear.  They are
(I think) members of the lily family.  They take a long time
to grow from seed (I've heard 5-7 years before they bloom).
Mine bloom only sparsely and irregularly...I think they
take time to establish (I wouldn't plant them at a place
where I was spending only a year or two).  Plant them
in a "woodland" type setting-under a tree is fine (not
an evergreen!).  They wouldn't like dry or sandy soil-
think a nice moist woodland floor.  They do well with 
other woodland plants: bluebell, geranium, bellwort...etc.

Bob Vaiden


From pwight@rahul.net Fri Mar 10 15:23:22 EST 1995
Article: 57739 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!rahul.net!a2i!pwight.a2i!pwight
From: "Philip F. Wight" <pwight@rahul.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: lady slippers
Date: 10 Mar 1995 01:29:14 GMT
Organization: a2i network
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Janine Dahms Walker (jwalker@InforMNs.k12.MN.US) wrote:
: Grant- do you have an address for Spangle Creek?  Janine
------------------------
Janine - here's Spangle Creek's phone number:
Spangle Creek Labs
Bill Steele
509-245-3253

Bill is probably the most experienced grower of native ladyslippers 
alive.  Ask him how easy, or difficult, they are to raise - he'll tell you!

I really suggest that you get a paph, which is an Asian ladyslipper.  
There are types that are extremely easy to grow, make a beautiful plant 
and also make beautiful flowers.  You can see them for sale these days in 
supermarkets and garden stores.

Please DON'T try native American ladyslippers.  I can guaraNTEE YOU 99 TO 
1 THAT YOU WILL KILL IT.  THEY ARE EXTREMELY TOUCHY - THEY NEED PURE 
WATER AND VERY CAREFUL HANDLING.  (Sorry about those caps.)

Paphs are beautiful - I have about 200 of them now.  Try one!

Cheers,
Phil


From splunket@ccs.carleton.ca Fri Mar 10 21:06:27 EST 1995
Article: 57740 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: splunket@ccs.carleton.ca (S. Plunkett)
Subject: Re: clay soil + compost = adobe ???
Message-ID: <D56ADo.Ern@cunews.carleton.ca>
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Anthony Brewster (brewster@zuma.icsl.ucla.edu) wrote:
> I recently added 1 part compost/mulch to 8 parts low organic clay soil. A week
> after thoroughly mixing the soil + a little gypsum, 2-3 inches of rain fell
> and turned the soil into a thick paste which lost a lot of volume and is
> now drying into a hard adobe like mass. In a sense, the soil now seems
> more compacted than before the organic material was added and is going to
> need a lot of fluffing up to be suitable for planting.

You will probably have to add quite a bit more organic material to
soften up your clay.  Adding some fine sand will also help to make it
more suitable for gardening.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott J. Plunkett:   splunket@ccs.carleton.ca, bp081@Freenet.carleton.ca
                                 __o    "Think Globally
                               _'\ <;      Bike Locally"
                              (*)/(*)
Yes, since everyone seems to want to know, I am finally working on my thesis.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Fri Mar 10 21:06:29 EST 1995
Article: 57741 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: hyacinth: what to do after bloom is gone?
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.192133.39989@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 9 Mar 95 19:21:33 -0600
References: <1995Mar3.103327.1@carleton.edu> <3j7oq3$g3g@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <3jnuib$5vs@clam.rutgers.edu>
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In article <3jnuib$5vs@clam.rutgers.edu>, cev@clam.rutgers.edu (Cara Vandy) writes:
> 
> Someone actually took the time to watch a hyacinth's bloom size over four 
> years?  Come on, how big a blossom do we really need ?  I've planted the 
> forced flowers of Easter outside and they've done fine.  I love the smell 
> of hyacinths, but they are freaky looking - a smaller flower blends in 
> better with the average garden anyway.  Why throw the bulb away if adding 
> it to the yard will produce another flower, or, at worst, fertilizer ?  
> 	
Yup, botany teachers do wierd things like watching bulbs for three or
four years.  As I recall, the forced bulbs averaged about 100 flowers
the year they were forced, 0.2 the following year, and 10 the year
after that.  10 flowers is a pretty skimpy inflorescence!

There's also a big difference in early-forced bulbs (most of these
were induced to flower in early-mid January) that have to be carried
along in suboptimal conditions until the ground thaws enough to 
plant them, and bulbs that were forced to bloom at easter, which is
about the normal blooming time around here.  The late forced bulbs
can be taken out and planted rather promptly.

Another big variable is the growing mix they were forced in.  Bulbs
forced in hyacinth glasses or pebbles put on a poor show compared to 
forced in soil mixe when you look at flowering the next year.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu


From jbuckley@btg.com Fri Mar 10 21:06:36 EST 1995
Article: 57746 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.btg.com!port3.lanrover.btg.com!user
From: jbuckley@btg.com (Jeremy D. Buckley)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Passion flower sources
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 1995 21:00:54 -0500
Organization: BTG, Incorporated
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In article <3jagm8$hr3@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, knord@u.washington.edu
(Kathleen Nordgren) wrote:

> Can anybody out there provide me with the name and address of someone who 
> sells passion flowers?  A few years back I bought the variety "Incense" 
> from Kartuz Greenhouse in Vista, CA, but they seem to be out of business 
> now. Thanks in advance for the help!

Logee's Greenhouses in Danielson, CT has a pretty good variety of plants
(including Incense).  Thompson & Morgan has seeds for a number of
varieties.
I don't have the addresses handy, but feel free to email me if you need them.

-- 
Jeremy Buckley                               jbuckley@btg.com
BTG, Inc., Vienna, VA                        (703) 734-6863


From mfrost@primenet.com Sun Mar 12 21:52:39 EST 1995
Article: 57747 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip068.lax.primenet.com!mfrost
From: mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Tropica (the book) == $175!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 13:39:10 PST
Organization: Primenet
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In article <3j86p6$bie@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> amy@michael.austin.mcd.mot.com (Amy Moseley Rupp) writes:
>From: amy@michael.austin.mcd.mot.com (Amy Moseley Rupp)
>Subject: Tropica (the book) == $175!
>Date: 3 Mar 1995 22:55:34 GMT

>I visited my local BookStop; they said they had Tropica, which is a 
>reference book of tropicals, on order, and that it cost $175!!!
>Is this correct?  If so, is this the reason there are so many
>garden book resellers?
            
My husband bought me a new copy of 'Tropica', as I wished for it for years. I 
have cruised booksales and second hand bookstores for years and have never 
seen anyone offering it for sale, new or used. Another book, much slimmer and 
less expensive ($8.95 last year)by the same author, de Graf is 'Exotica' but 
it is in black and white photos. It is also published by Roehrs. I suspect 
that this kind of reference book is kept until the owner's demise. 
Regards, Martha
mfrost@primenet.com


From blkorbe@srv.PacBell.COM Sun Mar 12 21:52:47 EST 1995
Article: 57749 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!gw2.att.com!pacbell.com!blkorbe
From: blkorbe@srv.PacBell.COM (Brian Korbelik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Milkweed--where to find?
Date: 8 Mar 1995 21:31:49 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell
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Message-ID: <3jl7o5$894@gw.PacBell.COM>
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>steven@rain.org () wrote:
>>
>> I would like to know where Milkweed can be obtained?  I work at a garden 
>> center and none of my plant material suppliers have it.  Can someone give 
>> me the botanical name?  I can't find it in the most basic garden books!  
>> Sunset is useless, much to my surprise.  Thanks in advance.
>> 

The Theodore Payne Foundation has seed for Asclepias eriocarpa
"Indian Milkweed" and they also have plants of Asclepias californica
but don't know if they have seed for it. The eriocarpa is a cream
color.

The Theodore Payne Foundation
10459 Tuxford Street
Sun Valley, CA 91352

Telephone and Fax: 818-768-1802

The folks there are very knowledgable and helpful.


Brian Korbelik





From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 21:52:54 EST 1995
Article: 57750 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Are wheel hoes worth while?
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.205757.39993@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 9 Mar 95 20:57:57 -0600
References: <1995Mar9.174207.1@pa881a.inland.com>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 19
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <1995Mar9.174207.1@pa881a.inland.com>, kuhn@pa881a.inland.com writes:
> I would like some feedback on wheel hoes.  How well do they work?  Are they
> difficult to use?  Are they worth the money & energy needed to purchase and
> use one?  Are there any specific models that you can recommend?
> 
> I am considering purchasing a tiller and was wondering if using a combination
> of a wheel hoe and a mini tiller would fill my needs.  My garden is between
> 1/4 and 1/2 acre and the soil is fairly soft (no hard clay).  Any comments
> recommendations will be appreciated
Is a wheel hoe a "handpush garden plow"?  If so, they're the fastest
way to weed between rows that I know of, and even I, with some major
orthopedic problems, can handle one.  Can't begin to hang onto a 
tiller, though.

BTW, my garden plow was my great-grandfather's.  Doubt many tillers
will last that long!  ;-)


Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu


From allyn@u.washington.edu Sun Mar 12 21:53:00 EST 1995
Article: 57751 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!nntp.cac.washington.edu!psaltery.chem.washington.edu!user
From: allyn@u.washington.edu (Allyn Weaks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Is "Roundup" Safe Way To Kill A Lawn
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 1995 19:01:34 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
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Message-ID: <allyn-0903951901340001@psaltery.chem.washington.edu>
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In article <3jkhku$d5t@werner.cs.mtu.edu>, jgtusciu@mtu.edu (John Tusciuk)
wrote:

> Bill Dill (wdill@Primenet.com) wrote:
[...snip...]
> : Can anyone tell me anything about Roundup?  Is there any truly safe way to
> : kill off a lawn?
> 
> I've never heard of Roundup causing any problems, but if you are
> worried about it, ask the landscaper for the chemical data sheets
> (there's some acronym for these, but I can't remember it).  These list
> all of the possible hazards associated with use of a given chemical
> and employers (at least in Michigan) have to have these someplace
> accessible to any employees that may be exposed to the chemical, so
> I'm sure he's at least got a copy.

Material Safety Data Sheet.  Indeed, you should obtain and read these for
any herbicide/pesticide etc before you use it.  But be aware that it
doesn't tell the whole story; only the 'active' ingredients need to be
disclosed in the ingredients list.  Many companies manage to hide
hazardous materials as 'inert' ingredients.  Roundup is one of the (many)
offenders.   Glyphosate is fairly safe to animals - it quickly binds
tightly to many soils (n.b. it may take months or years to actually
degrade, and it doesn't bind well to sands and coarse silt, where it can
remain active to retard new plant growth until it does degrade), and is
not very toxic if you get it on your skin, or even breathe it.  But one of
the 'inert' ingredients is a surfactant polyoxyethyleneamine (POEA) which
often contains 1,4-dioxane (a carcinogen) as a contaminent.  POEA is
easily absorbed through the skin and has caused acute poisoning on its own
- it is much more toxic than glyphosate.  This surfactant is one of the
main reasons that Roundup sometimes works better than its clones with the
same active ingredients; it causes more of the glyphosate to be absorbed
by the plant.  Of course, a lack of POEA in a clone doesn't necessarily
make a clone safer - depends on what _they_ hide in their 'inert'
ingredients...

So use Roundup (or clone) where non-toxic solutions are impractical (I'll
be attacking my bindweed with it this year) but make sure you don't
breathe it or get it on your skin, and keep it away from kids and pets. 
Gloves and long sleeves are a good idea, as is painting it on instead of
spraying when possible (hard to do to a lawn...).  And if you lack clay in
your soil, you should probably wait a while before you replant.  But don't
be too paranoid; drinking the stuff outright will only kill you about 10%
of the time... and if you do spill a bit of the stuff on you, most will
wash off with *soap* and water.

Meanwhile, complain to your congress critters about the appalling laxity
in labelling requirements.


A reference:

Author:        Martinez-T-T.  Brown-K.
Author Affil.: Department of Pharmacology, St. Louis College of Pharmacy,
               Missouri 63110.
Title:         Oral and pulmonary toxicology of the surfactant used in
               roundup herbicide.
Source:        Proc-West-Pharmacol-Soc.  1991.  34.  P 43-6.
Journal Title: PROCEEDINGS-OF-THE-WESTERN-PHARMACOLOGY-SOCIETY.
-- 
Allyn Weaks
allyn@u.washington.edu


From jbuckley@btg.com Sun Mar 12 21:53:04 EST 1995
Article: 57752 of rec.gardens
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From: jbuckley@btg.com (Jeremy Buckley)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Hoyas!
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 1995 12:46:44 -0500
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In article <3j82p7$eo3@mango.aloha.com>, "E. Gilding" <egilding@aloha.com>
wrote:

> For those of you who have access to Horticulture magazine check out
> the Feburary issue for an article on Hoyas, an excellent article
> by Christine Burton, leader of the Hoya Society International.

I have the February issue and haven't been able to find such an article. 
They don't have regional editions, do they?

-- 
Jeremy Buckley
jbuckley@btg.com                        JeremyB843@aol.com
BTG, Incorporated, Vienna, VA               (703) 734-6863


From kcurr@cyberspace.com Sun Mar 12 21:53:09 EST 1995
Article: 57754 of rec.gardens
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From: kcurr@cyberspace.com (Kaycee Curr)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: how to ripen tomatoes
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 23:07:26 +0500
Organization: C y b e r S p a c e - (206) 505-5577
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In article <lhellwi.7.00DF7764@interaccess.com>, lhellwi@interaccess.com
(Lisa Stalnaker Hellwig) wrote:

> According to Organic Gardening, putting them in the windowsill just makes
> them mushy.  They say to put them in a paper bag.
> 
> It's always worked for me!
> 
> Lisa Hellwig

What I found works even better for me is wrapping them individually with
paper towels so that they don't touch each other. (Later the paper towels
can be used to do household chores or something, so that it's not a
complete waste). Then put them in the paper bag. I check them every day
still- you know what they say about one bad apple!  :)

Kaycee


From jrwoodworth@mmm.com Sun Mar 12 21:53:13 EST 1995
Article: 57755 of rec.gardens
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From: jrwoodworth@mmm.com (John Woodworth)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bird feeder without weeds?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:49:45
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In article <D52wGx.LKE@metronet.com> pnash@metronet.com (Pat Nash) writes:
>From: pnash@metronet.com (Pat Nash)
>Subject: Bird feeder without weeds?
>Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 16:29:21 GMT

>I have a bird feeder in my back yard (currently over grass, but I will 
>soon have a garden area for it).  The birds are VERY sloppy eaters and 
>throw half of the seed overboard while they are eating!  Any suggestions 
>on keeping these seeds from germinating - mulch, brick base, etc.?

I'd let it fall into the grass and germinate. A quick pass or two with the 
lawnmower once a week will keep any weeds down. Putting a feeder near a garden 
bed is another matter. You will have weeds everwhere.

I found the best way to fertilize a tree is to hang a bird feeder under it. 
The mulch from the seed hulls along with the birds dropping do wonders for 
tree growth and improving the soil.



John


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Imitation is the sincerest form of parody."

                         Richard Corliss
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From kcurr@cyberspace.com Sun Mar 12 21:53:17 EST 1995
Article: 57756 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cyberspace.com!ppp52-208.cyberspace.com!user
From: kcurr@cyberspace.com (Kaycee Curr)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Spring flowering bulbs going to seed
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 23:15:54 +0500
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I notice every year my spring flowering bulbs have seeds. I read somewhere
that you should deadhead the daffodils and the tulips, but what about the
dying blooms (not leaves) from the crocus, snowdrops, scilla, etc? When I
got them I read that they were perfect for naturalizing, and will multiply
readily. Some of them are on their fourth year in my garden and I haven't
noticed any more flowers than when I first put them in. Was I supposed to
save those seeds and plant them?

Thanks!
Kaycee


From homers@airframe.chinalake.navy.mil Sun Mar 12 21:53:38 EST 1995
Article: 57760 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,misc.consumers
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From: homers@airframe.chinalake.navy.mil (homers)
Subject: Burgess :-P
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 04:05:14 GMT
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I ordered from Burgess for the first and last time this year.  They
have the worst customer service I have ever experienced.  Rather than
relate my entire tale of woe, I will just list the two things that
stood out as being the worst.

1.  Having become dissatisfied with Burgess' customer service, I tried
to cancel my order.  This was before any product was shipped.  No dice.
 They will not cancel an order except if it is done in writing even
though they are happy to take orders by telephone.  They charged my
credit card anyway.

2.  When I finally did receive a package, there was all of my order
information printed on the shipping label.  Also printed on the
shipping label was my credit card number for all the world to see.

Others may have had better luck with Burgess but I will never order
from therm again.  


From amy@michael.austin.mcd.mot.com Sun Mar 12 21:53:43 EST 1995
Article: 57761 of rec.gardens
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From: amy@michael.austin.mcd.mot.com (Amy Moseley Rupp)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,sci.geo.meteorology,austin.talk
Subject: New Sunset Western Garden Book; Zone for Austin, TX help?
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 8 Mar 1995 00:04:34 GMT
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ref: courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com rec.gardens:54972 sci.geo.meteorology:13251 austin.talk:327

Sunset includes Texas in its sales and discussions in its magazine,
but it does not give zone information for Texas.  Would those
knowledgeable be able to give a close match in climate in the
Western states (NM, AZ, CA, CO, UT, WA, OR are a few)?

>From the types of plants that do well here and the weather
information given in the book, my guess is that we are 8,
10, 12, or 14.  We have hot summer days but warm nights
and high humidity, and extremely erratic but usually mild
winters (60F - 40F are the average high and low of our
coldest month, January).

Below follows more detailed data.

Thanks!

USDA Zone 8

Record High: 109 F (hurts to type it)
Record Low: -2 F (hurts to type it)
Days Above 90 F: 105 (hurts to type it)
Days Below 32 F: 21.1 (that's more like it!)
Relative Humidity:  6 am:  83%; noon, 56%
Annual Wind Speed: 9.2 mph
Mean Max. July: 95 F (August a tad hotter)
Mean Min. January: 39 F (December about the same, with a warmup in Feb.)
First Freeze:  November 28
Last Freeze:  March 3
Growing Season: 270 days
Annual Precip:  31.9 inches

J	F	M	A	M	J
1.7	2.2	1.9	2.6	4.8	3.7

J	A	S	O	N	D
2.0	2.1	3.3	3.4	2.4	1.9

(rainiest months by far May/June and September/October,
beginning and end of school year)


-- 
Amy Moseley Rupp               108 Wild Basin Ste. 108, Austin, Texas 78746
Motorola Computer Group                 FAX:  (512) 329-7131
amy@austin.mcd.mot.com   alphanumeric pgr: (512) 933-5511, pgr 327117 (300 baud)
(512) 329-7117                 digital pgr: (512) 933-7333, pgr 327117


From egilding@aloha.com Sun Mar 12 21:54:10 EST 1995
Article: 57766 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!coconut-wireless!usenet
From: "E. Gilding" <egilding@aloha.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: starting Pineapples
Date: 9 Mar 1995 07:38:04 GMT
Organization: Flex Information Network HAWAII
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myancey@pic.net (Michael Yancey) wrote:
>
> This may sound strange, but when I was young I had a teacher 
> who started a pineapple by cutting off the top and planting it.
> Does this work or is there a little more to it
> 
> Thanks,
> myancey@pic.net
Easily!.  Just twist it free from the fruit part until it separates.
If its fresh itll come off easily.  Let the top dry in the dark
for a day or two and then put it in a 4-6 inch pot filled with
houseplant potting soil.  Its sometimes helps to removve the bottom
leaves(jusrt a FEW) and then pot it up.  I dunno where you live pbut
if its warm then let it root by itself in a shaded location until you notice it
growing.  If you live some where cold then I guess a heat mat next to a window
would be fine.   It makes a fine garden plant in warm areas, it likes
the sun and to be watered from the top.  It is a bromeliad, a plant
family noted for their ability to hold water in the vase like center
of the plant, which it can absorb to use.  within 12-24 months, a spike will
arise, usually pink to dull red-orange in color and little bluish 
flowers interspread between the pink/red-orange bracts.  Fruit
will form from this so dont cut it off and put it in  a vase.
Try growing a few other bromeliads, like tillandsias and viserias.
There are many types to choose from, some are mosterous. others (tillandsias)
are medium to miniture in size.  




From Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 12 21:54:26 EST 1995
Article: 57769 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk (Martin Tom Brown)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!peernews.demon.co.uk!nezumi.demon.co.uk!Martin
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
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In article <3jie0d$7ss@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
           PDietz@ix.netcom.com "Pat Dietz" writes:

> I try to garden on my leach field and would like to 
> plant perennials that are agressive and annuals that
> freely self sow. Also, I don't want to water the garden
> except to start the seeds. Oh, and I live where there
> is no rain all summer and the soil is clayey (CA, Sierra
> foothills). So far I've had luck with yarrow (millefolium?),
> Shasta daisy, California poppy, and lychnis. Any other 
> suggestions? I do not mind invasive plants like pearl yarrow. 

Some pretty self seeders that might grow well in those conditions:

	Honesty,      Lunaria annua
	Pot Marigold, Calendula officinalis
	Foxglove,     Digitalis purpurea (poisonous)
	Lemon balm

Quite a few plants in the "cottage garden" category should be OK
and are either perennial or vigorous self seeders.
 
Regards,
-- 
Martin Brown  <martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk>     __                CIS: 71651,470
Scientific Software Consultancy             /^,,)__/


From eberts@oregon.uoregon.edu Sun Mar 12 21:54:51 EST 1995
Article: 57773 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nntp.cac.washington.edu!news.uoregon.edu!shays.uoregon.edu!user
From: eberts@oregon.uoregon.edu (sonny hays-eberts)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 1995 14:15:16 -0700
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In article <3jie0d$7ss@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, PDietz@ix.netcom.com (Pat
Dietz) wrote:

> I try to garden on my leach field and would like to 
> plant perennials that are agressive and annuals that
> freely self sow. Also, I don't want to water the garden
> except to start the seeds. Oh, and I live where there
> is no rain all summer and the soil is clayey (CA, Sierra
> foothills). So far I've had luck with yarrow (millefolium?),
> Shasta daisy, California poppy, and lychnis. Any other 
> suggestions? I do not mind invasive plants like pearl yarrow. 

try purple coneflower - echinacae. i've also seen a white variety. another
useful annual i plant on my leach field is nigella sativa (love-in-a-mist)
and also, if you want to try some bulbs - montbresias are another item i've
plopped in there.

-- 
there is no sign of warning in the sirens call
welcome, we are the lamia  -- genesis

sonny hays-eberts
eberts@oregon.uoregon.edu


From konlen@eua.ericsson.se Sun Mar 12 21:54:58 EST 1995
Article: 57774 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!sunic!sunic.sunet.se!erinews.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!euax3i1c07!konlen
From: konlen@eua.ericsson.se (Lena Bolander)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: clay soil + compost = adobe ???
Date: 9 Mar 1995 08:11:36 GMT
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In article GKL@seas.ucla.edu, brewster@zuma.icsl.ucla.edu (Anthony Brewster) writes:
> I recently added 1 part compost/mulch to 8 parts low organic clay soil. A week
> after thoroughly mixing the soil + a little gypsum, 2-3 inches of rain fell
> and turned the soil into a thick paste which lost a lot of volume and is
> now drying into a hard adobe like mass. In a sense, the soil now seems
> more compacted than before the organic material was added and is going to
> need a lot of fluffing up to be suitable for planting.
> 
> The question I have is did I not add enough compost(Nurseryman's brand, forest
> products), or are some materials better than others at loosening up clay soils?
> Also, does the loosening effect take time to happen, ie does the organic
> matter have to decompose some before it really has an effect? How many more
> parts of organic matter should be added, if any? BTW, I also turned over a
> cover crop of rapeseed, rye and hairy vetch, and added about 0.5 parts kitchen
> scraps.
> 
> Thanks..Anthony
> 
> 
> 
In order to change the soil structure you have to ad lots of the new material
(compost, mulch, sand or whatever soil you want) to the surface, as deep as
 you need for your crop roots. I dont know how much of compost it takes but for
changing clay-soil to light sandy soil there has to be more sand than clay in
the blended result. 
But your clay will be fine as it is though it need some "fluffing" now. If you use
grassclippings or other fresh green material to cover the soil between the plants
the worms will do the fluffing for you during the growing season. Cover should be 
about 5 cm thick. Clay holds water quite well and the top cover added to that will
 keep the soil moist much longer than if you had a bare soil. It does also prevent
 the clay from cracking and getting hard. If you continue to use this method your soil
will improve a little for each season by containing more organic material.
You have also to choose a crop that is suitable for the clay. I have had some
difficulties with carrots earlier but now the grow much better though they not
are perfect (yet).

regards
 

/Lena






From browder@acs.ucalgary.ca Sun Mar 12 21:55:33 EST 1995
Article: 57779 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!noel.bio.ucalgary.ca!user
From: browder@acs.ucalgary.ca (Leon W. Browder)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Avoiding / treating damping off
Date: 9 Mar 1995 19:13:23 GMT
Organization: University of Calgary
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In article <arvesen.314.21FA27C0@tivoli.com>, arvesen@tivoli.com (Ralph
Arvesen) wrote:

> What exactly is damping off and how can it be treated and/or avoided? More 
> specifically, I am trying to germinate Texas Madrone (Arbutus xalapensis),  
> Desert Willow (Chilopsis linearis), and Mountain Laurel (Sophora
secundiflora) 
> seeds. Thanks.
> 
> ... Ralph Arvesen (Austin, TX)
> ... arvesen@tivoli.com

Damping-off is due to a fungus.  I have used two means to avoid it:
No-Damp Off liquid and No-Damp Off Sphagnum moss.  The latter is a
natural, non-chemical approach that seems to work quite well.  I am
gradually eliminating use of the liquid.

-- 
Leon W. Browder, Ph.D.
Department of Biological Sciences
University of Calgary
Calgary, Alberta  Canada  T2N 1N4
(403) 220-6787 (Office)
(403) 289-9311 (FAX)
email: browder@acs.ucalgary.ca


From waverheu@vub.ac.be Sun Mar 12 21:55:48 EST 1995
Article: 57782 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!Belgium.EU.net!idefix.CS.kuleuven.ac.be!rc1.vub.ac.be!imol2.vub.ac.be!imolpc1
From: waverheu@vub.ac.be (Willy A Verheulpen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Dynogen...a miracle hormone?
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 95 16:14:46 GMT
Organization: Brussels Free Uni
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In article <3jhksk$779@maze.dpo.uab.edu>,
   comm034@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu (Wade Woodward) wrote:
>Hey now!
>  If this is the stuff I think it is, it is a plant hormone that occurs
>naturally in plants (obviously). When sprayed on plants it basically 
>does what the hormone is suppose to do: make the plant grow where ever
>the hormone gets. BUT, (here is my opinion based on trying something 
>similiar. Actually I think it was Dynogen. I think it is Giberillic Acid)

FYI :

If this Dynogen is Giberellic acid GA3 this might be an interesting addition.
It is extracted from a fungus 'Giberelle fujikoroi (sp?)' and it has the
hability of breaking seeds 'dormancy'. Unfortunately it has a very strong side
effect which you noticed ie the 'cell stretching' which accounts for an 
excessive length growth. getting the correct dose is a tricky thing.
There is a book available by Prof Deno who has been experimenting very 
intensely with GA3 & it's effects on very large range of plants.

HTH

W Verheulpen
Brussels Free University -- Belgium
waverheu@vub.ac.be


I##################################################################I




From Billsfan@ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 12 21:56:05 EST 1995
Article: 57785 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: Billsfan@ix.netcom.com (Edward Gilbert)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: mulches
Date: 9 Mar 1995 18:23:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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I am not sure where this came from but I think it is Penn. State.
Article



Mulches

R. R. Rothenberger
Department of Horticulture, College of Agriculture

Mulches provide many benefits to plants. Benefits vary with the
material used, the type of soil, the kind of plant and the
cultural practices used.
     Mulches also may be used to make landscapes more attractive
and usable and to reduce the amount of maintenance work.
Why mulch?
     * Surface insulation 
          a. to conserve moisture 
          b. to modify extremes in temperature 
          c. to control weeds
     * Soil amendment 
          a. to improve soil aggregation and granulation 
          b. to increase water absorption and retention 
          c. to prevent soil compaction and improve aeration
     * Beautification 
          a. to make surface areas more attractive 
          b. to make surface areas more usable for paths, play
and sitting areas 
          c. to make areas easier to maintain

Types of mulch
Many types of material, organic and inorganic, may be used as
mulch. Organic mulches may break down in one season or less or
persist for more than one season. The first type is used
primarily in vegetable and flower gardens or around newly planted
trees and shrubs. They are usually decomposed enough by the end
of the growing season that they can be spaded or plowed under to
improve soil structure. Some common mulches of this type are
listed in Table 1.
     Organic mulches that persist for more than one growing
season are more useful around permanent plants. These are
summarized in Table 2.

A thick mulch provides excellent growing conditions for
rhododendrons as well as many other plants in the home landscape.
(photograph)

     Inorganic mulches may be gravel, crushed stone or some
manufactured product. Most of these materials are not so
beneficial to plants as the organic mulches. Some commonly used
inorganic mulches are summarized in Table 3.
     Though not generally considered mulches, some low-growing
ground cover plants produce many of the same benefits as mulch.
They shade the soil surface, keeping it cool in summer and at the
same time prevent evaporation. For more information on ground
covers, see Guide 6835, "Selected Ground Covers for Missouri."

Using mulches
On the whole, mulches should not be considered a fertilizer. Most
of them release some nutrients as they decompose, but the
fertilizer value is very small compared with the physical
effects. Where mulches are needed, use them for the mulch value
and add fertility as a supplement.
     The effectiveness of a mulch depends on the density and
texture of the material used and the depth of the layer applied.
A 4- to 6-inch layer of most products is needed to effectively
insulate the soil and prevent weed growth.
     In permanent locations a layer of black plastic film can be
used under the mulch to prevent weed growth and make the mulch
more effective. When black plastic is used, the mulch layer needs
to be only about half as thick as in areas without it. If areas
larger than 3 feet wide are covered with black plastic, holes
should be punched in it every 15-18 inches to allow good
distribution of water and air.

Mulching around ornamental plants makes mowing easier and reduces
chance of mower damage to plants. (photograph)

Table 1. Relative value of mulches that break down in one season
or less.

Mulching suggestions
Considering the growth requirements of the multitude of garden
and landscape plants, obviously there is no one mulch that will
be superior in all cases. The following general suggestions
should help in selecting the right mulch.

Bulbs. Among garden bulbs, lilies benefit more from mulching than
any other group. Two to 3 inches of wood shavings, straw, chopped
hay or other lightweight material serve to lower the summer soil
temperature, conserve moisture and give winter protection to the
more tender species.
     Most other bulbs are sufficiently winter hardy but benefit
from mulching for other reasons. Small, shallow-planted bulbs can
be heaved out of the soil by alternate freezing and thawing. This
can be largely prevented by light mulching. Mulches generally
improve the appearance of flowering bulbs growing in a bed of
otherwise barren soil. They offer a background for viewing the
new spring growth and also reduce the spattering of plants with
mud during rainstorms.

Table 2. Relative value of some persistent mulches.  

Evergreens. Plants that most need mulching are evergreen shrubs
and young evergreen trees, especially the broad-leaved types.
Mulches help prevent winter drying of these plants. Winter drying
causes foliage to become scorched and discolored over winter and
may cause the plant to die. Drying develops when foliage loses
moisture faster than it can be taken up by the roots from a dry
or frozen soil.
     Plants which should be mulched in practically every case are
azalea, boxwood, Chinese and Japanese hollies, Japanese andromeda
and rhododendron. Exotic evergreens and those planted north of
their best zone of adaptation should also be kept well mulched
the year around. 
     Coarse mulches should be used: wood chips, bark products,
shavings, chopped corn cobs, pine needles, hedge trimmings or
partially finished coarse compost. Mulches should be renewed in
early winter. A layer 2 to 4 inches deep is adequate in most
cases but can be more or less, depending upon site, soil,
climatic zone and the plant itself. The mulched area should be at
least as broad as the plant itself and preferably broader since
most woody plants have root systems which reach beyond the spread
of the branches.

Fruits. To keep young fruit trees growing well, maintain a
mulched area 3 to 4 feet in radius around the base. Coarse
materials such as hay, straw, wood or bark products are most
useful. The mulch should be removed and piled several feet from
the tree in early November to reduce the chances of mouse injury
in the tree roots. The mulch can be replaced in late March or
early April before new weed growth appears. Grapes and berry
bushes may be kept permanently mulched.
     Strawberries should be mulched preferably with clean straw
or with prairie hay about mid-December. Use enough mulch, loosely
scattered, to barely hide the foliage. In spring when new leaves
begin to grow, remove enough of the mulch to allow the plants to
emerge.

Table 3 Inorganic mulching materials. 

Mulching materials may be mounded up for winter protection of
roses.

Perennials. Most garden perennials benefit from summer mulches
for preserving soil moisture and for reducing soil temperature.
Some of those which most often need winter protection in Missouri
are baby's breath, bellflower, chrysanthemums, delphinium, hardy
gloxinia, hypericum, linum, lupine, oriental poppy, Stoke's
aster, thrift and thyme.
     Some perennials which are normally cold hardy are often
damaged by alternate freezing and thawing of the soil which may
loosen or heave the plants and expose them to drying. Among these
are aconite, coral bells and newly planted peony and plantain
lily.
     A few plants are extremely sensitive to damage by high
summer soil temperatures or drought. Delphinium, lupine, primrose
and Siberian iris are among the most troublesome in this respect.
     Two to 3 inches of straw, hay, wood shavings or partially
composted leaves would be an appropriate mulch for most
perennials. Pine needles or evergreen boughs are also effective.
When using a heavy layer of mulch on perennials, gradually remove
it during the onset of warmer weather in late winter. Heavy mulch
left too long may cause early emergence of weak, tender growth.
Such growth may be killed or permanently marked by freezing.

Roses. Experienced rose growers recognize the improvement in
vigor and appearance of roses as a result of summer mulching. The
mulch layer should be about 2 inches deep and of fairly coarse
material such as unfinished compost, aged sawdust, bark, milled
wood fiber or tobacco stems.
     By mid-November, provide adequate winter protection with a
mound of finished compost, garden soil or coarse peat. The mound
should be about 8 inches deep across the center of the plant.
Mounds should be removed in early spring when overnight
temperatures below about 28 degrees F are no longer expected. If
later, unseasonably cold weather threatens and new, tender shoots
have begun to grow, hasty covering may be needed.

Trees and shrubs. Trees and shrubs that gain most from mulching
are ones with shallow roots, ones which suffer from extended
drought or are otherwise damaged by high soil temperatures.
Flowering dogwood and sugar maple are examples of plants whose
leaves scorch easily in dry weather. Some leaves of birches,
willow and tulip trees often yellow and drop during extended
drought.
     All trees and shrubs should be mulched at planting time to
aid them in becoming established. A mulched area around the base
of trees and shrubs makes mowing easier and helps prevent mower
damage to the plant.
     The material used for mulching is perhaps less important
than the simple fact that the plants are mulched. Most coarse
materials are satisfactory. Avoid materials which form a tight
flake and those too unsightly in the landscape.

Vegetables and annual flower gardens. The primary reason for
mulching vegetable and flower gardens is to conserve soil
moisture. Crops most practical to mulch are beans, peppers, sweet
corn, tomatoes, vine crops and other long-term summer crops with
large amounts of foliage. Long-term crops started in the cool
season, including broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower and potatoes,
will also yield better when they are mulched. Asparagus and
rhubarb should be kept constantly mulched to conserve soil
moisture and reduce weed problems.
     Some of the best mulches for annual vegetable crops are
composts, straw, hay or other materials which will be largely
decomposed at the end of the season.
     Two to 3 inches of straw, hay, wood shavings or partially
composted leaves would be an appropriate mulch for most
perennials. Pine needles or evergreen boughs are also effective.
When using a heavy layer of mulch on perennials, gradually remove
it during the onset of warmer weather in late winter. Heavy mulch
left too long may cause early emergence of weak, tender growth.
Such growth may be killed or permanently marked by freezing.


               








-- 
Ed Gilbert
Tyrants have always some slight shade of virtue; they support the laws before destroying them.
--Voltaire


From n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu Sun Mar 12 21:56:24 EST 1995
Article: 57789 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!henson!henson.cc.wwu.edu!n6848640
From: FEENEY <n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Re: lady slippers 
In-Reply-To: <QjLQp=e00iV9E36tVj@andrew.cmu.edu> 
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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Sender: news@henson.cc.wwu.edu (USENET-WWU)
Organization: Western Washington University
References: <daurio.794580599@lamb>
 <1995Mar7.091531.39788@cobra.uni.edu> <QjLQp=e00iV9E36tVj@andrew.cmu.edu> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 07:59:58 -0800
Lines: 13
Status: RO
X-Status: 

William and Carol Steele of Spangle Creek Labs, W 2802 Depot Springs Rd., 
Spangle, WA 99031 offer "Cypripedium calceolus" (laboratory propagated) 
and "C. reginae" (from seed) NOT collected in the wild.  If you are a 
rock gardener, naturalist or collector you might be interested in 
contacting the Steele's who have dedicated themselves to a great deal of 
botanical research and laboratory experiementation in order to help 
restock areas of suitable habitat (where these lovely orchids have been 
lost to animal or natural forces) and to offer an alternative to the 
unethical practice of collecting in the wild.  Their two informational 
brochures are a valuable addition to your horticultural library.  The 
Steele's also offer Dyna-gro, the fertilizer they use on their 
seedlings.  The two brochures (with color photos) are $2;  the plant list 
is free with a SASE (shipping seasons are Spring and Fall.)


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 21:58:40 EST 1995
Article: 57810 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Is "Roundup" Safe Way To Kill A Lawn
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.144826.39971@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 9 Mar 95 14:48:26 -0600
References: <wdill-0603951752220001@ip067.lax.primenet.com> <3jkhku$d5t@werner.cs.mtu.edu> <mfrost.308.004F93CF@primenet.com>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 21
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <mfrost.308.004F93CF@primenet.com>, mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost) writes:
>
> The name of the "right-to-know" list of exposure hazard is "Material Safety 
> Data Sheet" which is provided by the manufacturer upon request. "MSDS" is 
> probably the common acronym. Incidentally, Glyphosate is the active 
> ingredient, I believe, and is one of the compounds that water purveyors (ie, 
> public utilities) must test the drinking water supply for.

Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup, is strongly bound to soil
particles.  It degrades there fairly quickly (days to a few weeks), and
does not pose much of a threat to water supplies.

I think you're confusing Lasso and Roundup (*where* do they get these
names??)  Lasso has atrazine as a main ingredient, and it does indeed
get into groundwater (and the drinking water system).

I'm willing to use glyphosate on a controlled basis.  I'm not willing
to use atrazine at all.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From libby@igc.apc.org Sun Mar 12 21:58:50 EST 1995
Article: 57811 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!libby
From: Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Lemon tree advice?
Message-ID: <APC&1'0'569f9ccd'6a3@igc.apc.org>
References: <D5587q.8yz@vcd.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:26:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org
Lines: 24
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Obviously, you're going to have to feed your tree. Raintree
Nurseries sells a citrus and avocado food that I've had good luck
using at the recommended rate:  1tbs/plant/mo.

If you can keep the tree in a sunnier site in the house, you'll
get more bloom and more fruit. I kept mine under lights in the
cellar on a 70 degree propagating mat when they were fairly small.
Now I keep them in a south window with extra light on cloudy
days.

On the other hand, you can overwinter citrus in cool but not
freezing place, a garage or cool greenhouse perhaps. Not much
growth, not need to water often, but good if you're pinched for
space.

I put mine out about mid-May which is about the time to set out
tomato plants here in zone 7 and leave them out til we're
threatened with a hard freeze.

When dragging the pot in and out, I always swear to go back to
dwarf geraniums, but since you already have the Meyer, enjoy. The
flavor is super.

Libby


From libby@igc.apc.org Sun Mar 12 21:58:55 EST 1995
Article: 57812 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!libby
From: Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: planting in philadelphia
Message-ID: <APC&1'0'569f9cce'7ab@igc.apc.org>
References: <3jlj78$pcf@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:30:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org
Lines: 9
Status: RO
X-Status: 

You can probably plant dormant perennials like the hosta and
clematis (which really likes sun if it is to bloom) in April, but
wait til the end of April or the beginning of May for the
impatiens. If you're feeling impatient, get some pansies for early
color...probably available later this month or maybe at the flower
show. They don't mind the cold at all and don't need a lot of sun
either.

Libby in Philadelphia too


From libby@igc.apc.org Sun Mar 12 21:59:00 EST 1995
Article: 57813 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!libby
From: Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Yet more Martha Stewart (can you stand it?)
Message-ID: <APC&1'0'569f9ccf'a42@igc.apc.org>
References: <3jo0of$r31@post.its.mcw.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:41:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org
Lines: 5
Status: RO
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I'm still waiting to read about what she did to her husband to
earn him a restraining order and what she does to the folk who
work with her. That sounded really juicy.

Libby


From libby@igc.apc.org Sun Mar 12 21:59:04 EST 1995
Article: 57814 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!libby
From: Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: calamondin orange tree
Message-ID: <APC&1'0'569f9cd0'b14@igc.apc.org>
References: <D57MA5.n13@cunews.carleton.ca>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:44:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org
Lines: 7
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I can only suggest the usual: lots of light, especially when you put it outdoors
and high phosphorous fertilizer. Raintree Nursery has a Citrus and Avocado
Food that's done well for me.

Libby

PS Have you knoced it out of the pot to see if it's severly root bound?


From libby@igc.apc.org Sun Mar 12 21:59:10 EST 1995
Article: 57815 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!libby
From: Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Natural repellants for cats
Message-ID: <APC&1'0'569f9cd1'c05@igc.apc.org>
References: <3jprfm$eb4@archive.ny.jpmorgan.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:48:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org
Lines: 5
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Natural cat repellants: dogs, tobacco dust, a hose attached to a
motion detector blood meal, commercial animal repellant, but it
usually has moth repellant, a petrochemical, in it.

Libby


From libby@igc.apc.org Sun Mar 12 21:59:14 EST 1995
Article: 57816 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!libby
From: Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Starting Indoors/Hel
Message-ID: <APC&1'0'569f9cd2'cf7@igc.apc.org>
References: <24.29401.2732@pcohio.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:51:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org
Lines: 13
Status: RO
X-Status: 

You are going to hate this. Whether or not you put seeds under
lights to geminate them depends on whether the seeds need light to
germinate. However, the catalog or seed pack will usually tell
you.

For the most part, vegetable and herb seeds do not need light to
germinate so you don't need to put them under the lights til they
actually come up.

At that point, keep the seedlings an inch or so below the
fluorescent tube.

Libby


From josh@happy-man.com Sun Mar 12 22:00:10 EST 1995
Article: 57823 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!ratty.wolfe.net!news1.wolfe.net!beauty!josh
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Septic Helpers
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 21:13:42 GMT
Message-ID: <D56yyv.Dxw@Happy-Man.com>
References: <1995Mar07.004247.16051@sco.com> <1995Mar7.085650.26569@ned.cray.com>
Reply-To: josh@happy-man.com
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:15813 rec.gardens:57823
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In <1995Mar7.085650.26569@ned.cray.com> strecker@cray.com () writes:

>This maybe a bit off this thread but if the problem is keeping
>the system active would it be a good thing to add oxygen to the
>system via some form of an air pump.  I see how the water will
>bring oxygen into the system which is good on one hand but adds
>to the saturation problem...why not simply add the oxygen supply
>via a pipe/pump much like a fish tank?  Any thoughts?

The septic tank should be as de-oxygenated as possible -- it's
purpose is to allow anaerobic decomposition of wastes.  Only
after this anaerobic decomposition is the wastewater ready for
aerobic decomposition, which takes place in the drainfield.
Excessive water flows will cause two major problems: wastes
will be forced out of the tank into the drainfield before
anaerobic decomposition is complete; and the drainfield may
become saturated, allowing the wastewater to enter the ground
water without aerobic decomposition.  This is very dangerous,
because aerobic decomposition is what eliminates many contagious
bacteria.

-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info. packet free.  Send POSTAL address: Solid-Value@Happy-Man.com


From eaplatt@webe.hooked.net Sun Mar 12 22:00:16 EST 1995
Article: 57824 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!its.hooked.net!webe.hooked.net!not-for-mail
From: eaplatt@webe.hooked.net (Elizabeth Platt)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Community Gardens
Date: 10 Mar 1995 11:02:11 -0800
Organization: Hooked
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Message-ID: <3jq7nj$6is@webe.hooked.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: webe.hooked.net
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klier@cobra.uni.edu () wrote:


>
>In article <3irg27$2al@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, 
>piddipat@aol.com (Piddipat) writes:
>> who owns the land that you garden on? i have my eye 
>on the vacant lot next
>> to my building with the hope that i can start a 
>community garden on it one
>> day. the city (chicago) says that i can't purchase 
>the lot until it gets
>> title to the land (which takes at least two years). 
>should i boldly take
>> it over while waiting for the city to gain title? 
>(right now it's totally
>> vacant and being used as a parking lot of sorts.)
>
>Well, I don't know whether you *should* or not, but in 
>many states,  one can obtain title by adverse posession 
>by using someone else's land  for a certain number of 
>years without the owner complaining.  Also in  many 
>states, once you've planted a garden, you're entitled 
>to that  year's production, regardless of the ownership 
>of the land.
>
>Kay Klier  (not a lawyer!)
>klier@cobra.uni.edu

Other options:  check with your local assessor's office to see 
if there is a name/address on the current owner.  If actual 
ownership/possession falls through, perhaps some sort of 
long-term lease could be negotiated with the owner.  If they 
live out of town, this effort might not be worth the hassle; 
this tends to be the case with abandoned or vacant lots.  Also 
check with the tax office, as in some states, simply paying up 
a certain number of years' worth of property taxes--assuming 
the owner is delinquent--gives you legal possession of the 
property.  Adverse possession is another way.  Even if you 
simply "moved in" and started gardening, you can't be booted 
for trespassing unless the owner his/herself (or themselves) 
demand this be done--and if they're out of town, who's gonna 
know?  

Elizabeth (also not a lawyer!)
eaplatt@hooked.com



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:00:41 EST 1995
Article: 57828 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Avoiding / treating damping off
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.150113.39972@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 9 Mar 95 15:01:13 -0600
References: <arvesen.314.21FA27C0@tivoli.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 31
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <arvesen.314.21FA27C0@tivoli.com>, arvesen@tivoli.com (Ralph Arvesen) writes:
> What exactly is damping off and how can it be treated and/or avoided? More 
> specifically, I am trying to germinate Texas Madrone (Arbutus xalapensis),  
> Desert Willow (Chilopsis linearis), and Mountain Laurel (Sophora secundiflora) 
> seeds. Thanks.
> 

Damping off is a seedling disease, caused by several fungi.  The most
common cause is Pythium.   (I started substituting an "s" sound for the
"th" in Pythium the year it clobbered most of my seedlings.... ;-) )

The symptoms are that the stems start looking water-soaked or pinched,
and the next day the plant has keeled over.  No hope of recovery.  No
fungal fuzzies.

The treatment is prevention:  clean pots or flats (soak in 1 part
chlorine bleach and 9 parts water for 5 minutes (or water + enough
bleach to stink, and soak for several hours), then rinse in plain 
water and air dry till no trace of bleach smell remains.
Use sterile potting soil or a commercial seed starting mix like
Jiffy Mix.  Cover the seeds with a thin layer (1-2 mm) of milled
sphagnum moss, which inhibits the growth of many bacteria and fungi.
(I save sphagnum, which is expensive, for "good seeds", and use
plain sandbox sand for ordinary flower and veggie seed).  Keep the
humidity high, but also allow for some air circulation.  Don't
slip a flat of seedlings into a sealed ziplock bag or something
similar, as I've seen described in several garden magazines.  It's
ok for seeds, but the second they germinate, get the air circulating!

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From eaplatt@webe.hooked.net Sun Mar 12 22:00:48 EST 1995
Article: 57829 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!its.hooked.net!webe.hooked.net!not-for-mail
From: eaplatt@webe.hooked.net (Elizabeth Platt)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: evening bloomer
Date: 10 Mar 1995 11:25:12 -0800
Organization: Hooked
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <3jq92o$7le@webe.hooked.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: webe.hooked.net
Status: RO
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There are quite a few night-blooming flowers out there--I don't 
have an exhaustive list, but one of my catalogs (Shepherd's 
Garden Seeds) lists five varieties that open at dusk/night:  
Evening primrose (Oenothera pallida); Sweet-Scented Nicotiana 
(Nicotiana alata); Moonflowers (Ipomea alba); "Midnight Candy" 
Phlox (Zalusianskya capensis); and Four O'Clocks/Marvels of 
Peru (Mirabilis jalapa).  I believe there is also a variety of 
Stock that is night blooming, sometimes called "evening stock" 
or "night-blooming stock" (must have stayed up all night 
thinking of that one!)

Elizabeth Platt 
eaplatt@hooked.com


djd@cbddo2.cb.att.com (D416B/Dave Daulton/X4410/D/B) wrote:


>
>In article <3iikvp$9ek@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Delled 
><delled@aol.com> wrote:  Various evening primroses are 
>known for this.  These are Oenthera (sp?)  primroses, 
>not the Primula primroses.
>
>I also seem to recall that some daturas (angel 
>trumpets) do this.
>
>Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio
>
>>This summer I noticed an evening blooming  flowering 
>perennial during a
>>vacation in Rhode Island.  I sat mezmorized during the 
>latter part of the
>>day as each flower burst into bloom one at a time.  
>Can anyone give me
>>information on the name and sources of flowers with 
>this behavior?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Eve



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:01:16 EST 1995
Article: 57835 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Rosa rugosa:?from seed?fun?
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.150347.39973@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 9 Mar 95 15:03:47 -0600
References: <3jn7pe$oop@nic.iii.net>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 15
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <3jn7pe$oop@nic.iii.net>, taykra@philk.iii.net (CT) writes:
> 
> I know I can propagate R. rugosa from suckers, *but* would like to 
> try germinating the seeds in some of the hips I've collected.  These 
> hips (from large white, large pink, and ?"Hansa"?) have been sitting 
> the change bin of my car all winter in zone 5. 
> 

Mix them with damp sand or milled sphagnum (damp, not sopping wet!)
and put them in a sealed baggie or jar in the back of the refrigerator
for a few months.  Remove from the refrigerator and germinate in flats.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu




From dwhitman@rohmhaas.com Sun Mar 12 22:01:25 EST 1995
Article: 57837 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!jvnc.net!krell.sh.rohmhaas.com!user
From: dwhitman@rohmhaas.com (Dave Whitman)
Subject: Re: Starting Columbine from seed
Message-ID: <dwhitman-0803951601560001@krell.sh.rohmhaas.com>
Sender: news@tigger.jvnc.net (Zee News Genie)
Organization: Rohm & Haas Co.
References: <3j4n6s$gkc@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <mobabbb.1144560434F@newsserver.utcc.utk.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 21:01:56 GMT
Lines: 44
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <mobabbb.1144560434F@newsserver.utcc.utk.edu>,
mobabbb@utkvx.utk.edu (Meredith Morris-Babb) wrote:

> In Article <3j4n6s$gkc@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, kelumida@ix.netcom.com (Keith
> Kowalski) wrote:
> >Has anyone out there started species Columbine from seed? Hate to let 
> >all that came through winter hanging in the seed pods go to waste. 
> >By the way, I saw them planted with blue balloon flowers in the Atlanta 
> >Botanical Garden and the comb. was really nice. Any help would be 
> >appreciated. 
> >Keith Kowalski at <kelumida@ix.netcom.com>
> 
> Keith - I always open up the pods and scatter the seeds in the fall.  Given
> decent soil (and if you are in the South, that's not always a given ;-)  ),
> they will be blooming the next year.  I had great success with this and now
> have sixteen plants of my white Showy from a single plant two years ago.
> 
> I vote for stickin' 'em in the ground and go!
> 
> Meredith
> >

My parents have a huge collection of columbines, and at my request, once
sent me several little plastic bags of seed pods.  The seeds came with
long, detailed descriptions about how to germinate and plant them, then
care for the resulting plants.  The instructions began something like
"Break up the pods.  Pick up each seed and look closely - one side is
slightly darker in color from the other.  This side goes DOWN when you
plant it in sterilized potting soil..."

The seeds are TINY.  My folks let me stew over trying to figure out which
side had to be on the bottom when I planted them for about two days,
before calling me up and telling me to just go outside and dump the seeds
on the ground in late summer/early fall and forget them.  I did that, and
had an incredible mass of plants the next spring.  

As I recall, the first year, none of the plants blumed, but the second
year, they were beautiful.  They seem to be reseeding and/or surviving and
I have lots of blumes every year.

-- 
dave whitman             "The opinions expressed are those of the 
dwhitman@rohmhaas.com     author, and not Rohm and Haas Company."
                          They made me say that.  Really.


From lcp7a@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU Sun Mar 12 22:01:30 EST 1995
Article: 57838 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU!lcp7a
From: lcp7a@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Louise C. Putnam-Stoner)
Subject: Re: Evergreens resistant to deer
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: faraday.clas.virginia.edu
Message-ID: <D594Kz.Ar7@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: uva
References: <bjp1.2.000A52F0@cornell.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 01:10:11 GMT
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X-Status: 

bjp1@cornell.edu  writes:
> Please advise if planting fir trees --- douglas, concolor, fraser etc -- is 
> prudent in areas "infested" with deer. ...text delete... 
> Banoo Parpia
> bjp1@cornell.edu

Banoo-

>From an old copy of "Deer Resistant Plants for Ornamental Use"
from the National Park Service:

Plants Rarely Damaged:  Picea Pungens-- Colorado Blue Spruce

Plants Seldom Severly Damamged: Ilex cornuta-- Chinese Holly
Juniperus chinensis-- Chinese Junipers; Picea abies; P. glauca;
P. nigra; P. rigida; P. mugo; p. Resinosa; P. sylvestris; 

You note that the 1st catagory doesn't say NEVER damaged!  

Good luck

Louise (Charlottesville, VA zone 6)
         


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:02:28 EST 1995
Article: 57852 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: SEED PROBLEMS
Message-ID: <1995Mar7.145708.39829@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 7 Mar 95 14:57:08 -0600
References: <willid2.1144907623F@usenet.rpi.edu>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 34
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <willid2.1144907623F@usenet.rpi.edu>, willid2@rpi.edu (Dina Williams) writes:
> I am a first-time gardener and am having problems with my seeds.  I planted
> a bunch of cabbage and broccoli indoors a month or so ago and the sprouts
> grew very tall, with only two leaves, and eventually flopped over.  At that
> point my 18-pound cat jumped onto the table (over a fence, I might add) and
> decimated the crop.  I wasn't too distraught, as the sprouts had gotten
> rather leggy.  So I replanted.
> 
> Some of my new sprouts are also getting leggy. I realize that the legginess
> was probably the result of too little light and also maybe too much heat. I
> don't have a heat mat, but they were very close to a radiator for most of
> the day. I can't afford a special light, and the plants were in a
> North-facing window. So I've moved them to an unheated, enclosed porch that
> gets pretty warm during the day and lots more light. (I live in upstate New
> York -- don't know which zone I'm in off the top of my head. The last couple
> of days have been in the high 40s, and my porch seems to get warmer than
> that. The plants are in the sunniest spot on the porch.) I bring them inside
> in the late afternoon as it's still dipping down into the 30s at night. 
> They are still close to the radiator at night, but we keep our thermostat in
> the low to mid 60s when we go to bed.

The cooler temperatures should be just fine for "cole crops" like
cabbage, broccoli, brussels sprouts, etc.  In fact, maturing plants
will handle several degrees of frost.  Warmth loving veggies like
tomato and eggplant will probably just sit there, or will die of the
cold under the conditions you cite.

BTW, you can stretch your growing season considerably by makeing
a cold frame, and planting it early next fall with cool-weather
loving veggies like cabbage and lettuce and carrots.  I've harvested
into January here in USDA zone 4b.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:02:36 EST 1995
Article: 57855 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Don't forget to pinch!
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.194213.39991@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 9 Mar 95 19:42:13 -0600
References: <1995Mar7.193956.39845@cobra.uni.edu> <JEFF.COOK.95Mar9103537@bears.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 62
Status: RO
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In article <JEFF.COOK.95Mar9103537@bears.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM>, Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Jeff Cook) writes:
> In article <1995Mar7.193956.39845@cobra.uni.edu> klier@cobra.uni.edu writes:
> 
>>Just a reminder to all the folks starting seeds and cuttings this time 
>>of year:  regular "pinching" (removing the terminal bud)  makes
>>bushier plants.
> 
> How do I identify the terminal bud?  I'm raising seedlings for the first
> time this year, and I'm a newbie at this; I don't want to pinch off the
> wrong thing and kill my plants.  Does this technique work with all plants?

It works well for dicots, which are most of the flowering plants, and
most of the flowers and veggies.   Their terminal buds are out in
the open compared to the terminal buds of the monocots (grasses, lilies,
etc.)

(Challenge to the reader who has a good magnifying glass or access
to a dissecting microscope:  Find the terminal bud (apical meristem)
of a corn plant.  Nope.  look.  Lower than that!  Lwer still! You're
getting warmer!  ;-) )

Back to the dicots:  look at the stem of a plant, and notice how
the young leaves get progressively smaller as you go toward the
tip of the stem.  Look also at the point where the leaves join
the stem, and right above the place where the leaf joins, there will
be a little knot of tissue.  That's a lateral bud, or axillary bud if you 
prefer, and it's got the potential to become a branch, a flower or
an inflorescence if it gets the right chemical signal  from the
rest of the plant.  Mostly it just sits there and stays a bud, because
the terminal bud (apical bud) is producing a hormone, auxin, 
which keeps the lateral bud dormant.

Go back to the tip of the stem.  See the leaves get progressively
smaller and closer together?  At the very tip, the smallest leaves
are curled over the stem tip, protecting some actively dividing
cells called the apical meristem.  The apical meristem and the
young leaves around it make up the terminal bud.  The apical
meristem keeps cranking out new leaves for its stem, and auxin
that keeps the lateral (axillary) buds from developing.

If you remove that terminal bud (traditionally done with nail of
thumb and forefinger, hence "pinching"), the supply of auxin
is stopped.  The next 2-3 axillary buds below the place where the
terminal bud was removed will start developing, usually becoming
branches, and making the plant much "fuller" and "bushier"
("Thriftier" in garden parlance).

When you pinch, you need remove only the terminal buds (and obviously,
the young leaves surrounding them if you don't want this to be
a high-precision surgical operation!).  Some people tend to
overdo it, and, with an unbranched seedling 4" tall, take off
2" of stem and young growth!  That's kinda radical, and it tends
to set the seedling back more than needs be.  If you're careful,
only a careful observer will be able to tell you've just pinched
a flat of seedlings.  If it looks like you took the kitchen shears
to the plants, you've probably overdone it...

Kay Klier   klier@cobra.uni.edu
(whose mother used to go in the house and cry when her father
decided to prune trees.. rather brutally... in an attempt to
make them branch!)



From mindrew@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:02:51 EST 1995
Article: 57857 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: mindrew@aol.com (Mindrew)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 'Garden in Time' New 3D software FREE for testers
Date: 9 Mar 1995 00:27:10 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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If you're looking for a Mac tester with two acres in Connecticut and not
too much experience in gardening (oh, and I used to review software for
Electronic Games Magazine and MacUser), add me to the beta test list.  

-- T.F. Hines


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:03:03 EST 1995
Article: 57860 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Can't wet my seed starting mix :(
Message-ID: <1995Mar7.150335.39830@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 7 Mar 95 15:03:35 -0600
References: <3jhq49$hnp@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 25
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In article <3jhq49$hnp@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, eeyore@wpi.WPI.EDU ( Melissa ) writes:
> 	Okay, I'm an idiot.  I admit it.  I filled up 7 flats with dry
> 	fluffy seed starting mix (peat moss/vermiculite/perlite) and
> 	planted my seeds DRY.  Now I can't seem to wet the darn stuff.
> 	Is there ANYTHING I can do?  I'm watering from underneath
> 	since some of the seeds were not covered (i.e. light needed
> 	for germination), but the water is not wicking up to the top
> 	layers.

Nope, not stupid.  Sphagnum moss is tough to wet once it gets dry!
If you hadn't planted the seeds already, I'd tell you to dump your
planting mix back in a bucket or plastic bag and wet it with
near-boiling water.  Squeezing a little helps the soaking process, too.

However, you've got seeds.  So set the trays in a shallow container
of warm water (baby bath temperature), and let them sit for 12 hours.
If the upper surface isn't moist by that time, fill a spray bottle
with a quart of warm water and 2 drops of baby shampoo or 1 drop of
mild dish detergent, like Ivory liquid or Dawn.  Spray the surface
of the flat heavily, and let that soak down, while continuing to
bottom-water.  When the planting mix is saturated, remove the trays and 
let them drain.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From carnes@carnes.stortek.com Sun Mar 12 22:03:39 EST 1995
Article: 57867 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!csn!stortek!news
From: carnes@carnes.stortek.com (Steve Carnes)
Subject: Re: tomato worms
Message-ID: <D54z8z.9xo@stortek.com>
Sender: news@stortek.com
Reply-To: carnes@carnes.stortek.com
Organization: The Unconfigured xvnews people
References: <14413790.1508908@lamg.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 19:24:34 GMT
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In article 1508908@lamg.com, jabes@lamg.com (Jerald Brainin) writes:
>I am looking for an effective non-toxic answer to tomato worms?????

Hand pick them.  After work, I grab a scotch and my 3yr old and I
examine the tomatoes -- she picks and eats as many yellow pears or
cherries as she can reach, and I look carefully for hornworm damage.
When I find the occasional beast, I carefully unhook it from the plant
(only if it doesn't have the telltale white bumps from parasitic wasps)
and fling it up on the garage roof for the birds to eat.

The parasitized hornworms (I've only found a few) go into a bucket with
tomato plant trimmings to tide them over until such time as the wee
wasps flee their host, bless their little souls...




From gstone@pipeline.com Sun Mar 12 22:07:10 EST 1995
Article: 57902 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail
From: gstone@pipeline.com (George Stone)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Johnny's Selected Seeds Catalog
Date: 7 Mar 1995 19:19:29 -0500
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--Any one interested in receiving a 1995 Johnny's Catalog can e-mail me
your address and I'll see that you get one 
E-mail to gstone@pipeline.com 
GStone 


From grumbo@niagara.com Sun Mar 12 22:07:14 EST 1995
Article: 57903 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!niagara.com!slip0.niagara.com!grumbo
From: grumbo@niagara.com (Grahame Rumsby)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds,rec.gardens,rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Introducing Pete's *New* Pond Page
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 06:19:13 UNDEFINED
Organization: Internet Connect Niagara
Lines: 16
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References: <3j7tsd$8hp@fido.asd.sgi.com> <1995Mar8.223718.15819@integrity.uucp>
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Keywords: pond, water garden, www, koi, goldfish, water lily
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X-Status: 

In article <1995Mar8.223718.15819@integrity.uucp> ronp@mpd.tandem.com (Ron Perez) writes:
>>Pete Orelup, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (peteo@sgi.com)
>>(415) 390-3697, Fax: (415) 390-6056, MS: 1-875
>>URL: http://reality.sgi.com/employees/peteo/


>Is anyone else having trouble reaching this site?  Is it restricted
>to SGI employees only?  Let me know, it sounds like a great home-page.

>Ron Perez,  Tandem Computers, Inc. Austin, TX (ronp@isd.tandem.com)

Nope I have no trouble accessing it and as Pete mentioned the photos
do load much quicker than the old one


Grahame


From herb@tuna.hooked.net Sun Mar 12 22:07:26 EST 1995
Article: 57905 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!its.hooked.net!tuna.hooked.net!not-for-mail
From: herb@tuna.hooked.net (Jackie Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Find an answer to Nutrition and Health Problems!!
Date: 9 Mar 1995 10:08:16 -0800
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Send us your email and snail-address with telephone number and FAX number
with your questions, concerns and problem to The Herb Consultants for
answers on the all  natural way to solve your satuation.  We will send to
you your information. 
 
Jackie  
herb@hooked.net


From Rbarton@jove.acs.unt.edu Sun Mar 12 22:07:48 EST 1995
Article: 57908 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.unt.edu!usenet
From: Rodney Barton <Rbarton@jove.acs.unt.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: are wildflowers do-able in nice neighborhood?
Date: 10 Mar 1995 15:33:40 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Go for it!  I'd look for perennials that are showy and plant in patches
that bloom is succession.  I have the following in my meadow:

Purple cone flower (Echinacea sanguinea)
Clasping-leaved coneflower (Dracopis amplexicaulis)
Showy evening primrose (Oenothera speciosa)
Brown eyed Susan (Rudbeckia hirta)
Lance leafed correopsis, Tickseed, (?).

I also have Indian blanket, gaillardia (Gaillardia pulchella) but it 
not as showy and doesn't compete with grasses as well as the others.

Mexican hat (Ratibida columnaris) and Maximilian sunflower 
(Helianthis maximiliani) are also good as accents but are tall.

I'd guess that most of these would do well in Tulsa.

I'd stay away from canned mixes.

As for in a nice neighborhood? Well my neighborhood isn't what I'd 
call "nice" as in fancy or expensive, but my neighbors seem to enjoy 
my "wild" yard when it's in bloom anyway. And nothing could be uglier 
than an over grazed horse pasture.

I can follow up with a couple of seed suppliers for you, or (it won't 
help you this season) I can save seed for all of the above.  Post me 
privately if you are interested.

Rodney
Rbarton@jove.acs.unt.edu


From diveanddig@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:08:21 EST 1995
Article: 57914 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: diveanddig@aol.com (Diveanddig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Clematis sources?
Date: 8 Mar 1995 15:12:14 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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X-Status: 

Another Clematis specialist is -
The Compleat Garden
217 Argrilla Rd.
Ipswich, MA 01938-2614
Catalog costs $1.50
Deals in clematis only.  I have just sent for the catalog as I am looking
for some new varieties to add to my 40 vines.
Bill Bird  NY  zone 6


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:08:28 EST 1995
Article: 57916 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Don't forget to pinch!
Message-ID: <1995Mar7.193956.39845@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 7 Mar 95 19:39:56 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 31
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Just a reminder to all the folks starting seeds and cuttings this time 
of year:  regular "pinching" (removing the terminal bud)  makes
bushier plants.  I usually start pinching seedlings when there's
4-6 true leaves or leaf pairs.  (Jerry: what do you recommend to
your students?)                                

Also, you only have to pinch off the growing tip.  You needn't take
off more than the last tiny leaves and the bud, not nicely 
expanded leaves.  If you are pinching seedlings, the seedlings
should be about the same size after being pinched as they were
before you started!

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu




















From wl-the_invisible_gardener-iga@society.com Sun Mar 12 22:08:32 EST 1995
Article: 57917 of rec.gardens
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Subject: Re: Using Epsom salts in in plant soil?
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: wl-the_invisible_gardener-iga@society.com
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 95 09:35:41 EST
Message-ID: <28484PFMVFGSTXBISFN@society.com>
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Hello you all, heres some info on using epson salts and tea and soap....

I like what jerry has to say except that most things he talks about is
not very organic nor natural and should not be used in your organic
garden.. however
I have been reccomending the use of these things for many years but I
advise my students to only use the organic and natural products
available....
epson salts, if used correctly is a great tool for roses, lawns, flower
bed, veg gardens etc.. but must be used a little bit and not over done
soap.. please use only natural products not dishwashing liquid!
read the ingredients most of that stuff was never meant to be used on
plants, let alone food stuff.
If you are interested my new book is out.. called "natural Pest Control"
by andrew lopez  (thats me) better known as The invisible gardener. Book
is available by ordering at local book stores or thru 1-800-354-9296.

Happy Growing Organically of course!



  |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
  |   Andrew Lopez                                                  |
  |  The Invisible Gardener (rm)                                    |
  |  WL-The_Invisible_Gardener-IGA@Society.com       Don't          |
  |  Operating TOBBS( The Organic BBS)(tm)           Panic          |
  |  Home of The Organic BBS(tm)                      it's          |
  |  The Invisible Gardeners of America(tm)          Organic!       |
  |  1-310-457-4268.....2400                                        |
  |  1-310-457-4879.....14,400                                      |
  |  for more info call 1=310-457-4438                              |
  |_________________________________________________________________|


---
Sent via WorldLink on 03/07/95 at 05:36:08.
From: The Invisible Gardener
      Malibu, CA
      Information on organics.





From wl-the_invisible_gardener-iga@society.com Sun Mar 12 22:08:36 EST 1995
Article: 57918 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!psinntp!society.com!wl-the_invisible_gardener-iga
Subject: use of dormant sprays on fruit trees
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: wl-the_invisible_gardener-iga@society.com
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 95 09:35:42 EST
Message-ID: <28478MXRYYOHLXVSTLH@society.com>
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Lines: 41
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IN>> since i recently learned that i've missed the time for dormant sprays, i
IN>> i do have problems with insects, mites, etc; what should i do, esp. if i
IN>> prefer not using potentially harmful insecticides.   thanks             
IN>>                                             bert
IN>>
IN>>
      Bert,
you can use the Fine Horticultural Oil year round! just add a dash od Dr
Bronners peppermint soap and a dash od seaweed to increase
effectiveness!
yours
organically of course!
andrew lopez
the invisible gardener



  |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
  |   Andrew Lopez                                                  |
  |  The Invisible Gardener (rm)                                    |
  |  wl-the_invisible_gardener-iga@society.com       Don't          |
  |  Operating TOBBS( The Organic BBS)(tm)           Panic          |
  |  Home of The Organic InfoBank(tm) and             it's          |
  |  The Invisible Gardeners of America(tm)          Organic!       |
  |  1-310-457-4268.....2400                                        |
  |  1-310-457-4879.....14,400                                      |
  |  for more info call 1=310-457-4438                              |
  |_________________________________________________________________|


---
Sent via WorldLink on 03/07/95 at 05:36:10.
From: The Invisible Gardener
      Malibu, CA
      Information on organics.





From karin@mothra.rose.hp.com Sun Mar 12 22:08:53 EST 1995
Article: 57921 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!lf.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!icon!hpchase.rose.hp.com!karin
From: karin@mothra.rose.hp.com (Karin Doyle)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Robot Lawnmower
Date: 9 Mar 1995 22:17:40 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Roseville Site
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At the rate of $65.00 USA dollars/month, I could probably
justify the robot in about sixteen months.  But how will
this impact all the gardeners?  Scary thought.

****** ************************************************************
****    ***********                                ****************
**       **********                                ****************
***      **********                                *** * * * * ****
****    ******* ***                                ****       *****
******** ******* **                                ****       *****
********* ****** **                                ****       *****
**** ***** **** ***                                *****     ******
***** **** *** ****                                * ***** ***** **
****** *** ** *****                                * ***** ***** **
****** *** * **|/  _   _  .        / ) _      / _  * ***** ****  **  
****** *** * **|\_(_\_/(_/_/)_  __/_/_(_)_\/_/_(/_ * ***** **** ***
******* ** * ******                       /        **  *** ***  ***
******** *  *******                                ***   * **  ****
********** ********************************************* * * ******
		
Karin Doyle

Telephone: T/916-785-2652                       Hewlett-Packard
FAX:       916-785-5132				SMDO               
E-mail:    karin@mothra.rose.hp.com             8000 Foothills Blvd.   
Mailstop:  5575                                 Roseville, CA 95757-6588
						


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:09:01 EST 1995
Article: 57922 of rec.gardens
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From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Starting Indoors/Help
Message-ID: <1995Mar10.205437.40052@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 10 Mar 95 20:54:37 -0600
References: <24.29401.2732@pcohio.com> <APC&1'0'569f9cd2'cf7@igc.apc.org>
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In article <APC&1'0'569f9cd2'cf7@igc.apc.org>, Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org> writes:
> You are going to hate this. Whether or not you put seeds under
> lights to geminate them depends on whether the seeds need light to
> germinate. However, the catalog or seed pack will usually tell
> you.
> 
> For the most part, vegetable and herb seeds do not need light to
> germinate so you don't need to put them under the lights til they
> actually come up.
> 

Actually, the red wavelengths of light, the ones most useful in
breaking dormancy when there's a phytochrome system involved, 
penetrate fairly well into the soil... an inch or more in most
cases.  It never hurts to put seeds under light, as it helps
the seedling orient properly (oh yeah!  I know!  green side up! ;-) )

Kay Klier   klier@cobra.uni.edu



From dragon@csulb.edu Sun Mar 12 22:09:17 EST 1995
Article: 57925 of rec.gardens
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From: Brian Lo <dragon@csulb.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FAQ: Faba Beans
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:42:06 -0800
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
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                                 FABA BEAN  Vicia faba
                      (see seperate files on beans and lima beans)

      Faba bean, also called Fababean, Broadbean and Fava Bean is a cool
temperature vegetable popular in the Middle East and Europe, and uncommon in
the U.S.  Pods are shelled when seeds are green for cooking as a green
vegetable, commonly in stews.  The seed may be boiled, or used roasted as a
snack food.  They are also harvested after the seed has dried and ground to a
flour and used for falafel, a popular middle eastern food.

VARIETIES

      Spring planted varieties require approximately 130-150 days, while over-
wintering varieties require approximately 240 days to reach dry seed maturity. 
Green-pod harvest for green seed would be about 30 days less:

      Aquadulce Claudia for overwinter or spring planting; Aprovecho Select,
Green Windsor, Broad Windsor, Equina, Ipro for spring planting.  Dwarf type: 
Coles Dwarf Prolific (suited to windy areas where plants may be blown over). 
Heat tolerant type:  Foul Muddamma.  For trial - spring planting:  Dread-
nought, Acme, Stereo.

SEED COMPANIES

Abbott & Cobb Inc. POB F307, Feasterville, PA 19047
Asgrow Seed Company, POB 5038, Salinas CA 93915
Bountiful Gardens, 19550 Walker Road, Willits, CA 95490
Crookham Co. Caldwell, ID 83606
Ferry-Morse Seed Co. POB 4938, 555 Codoni Ave. Modesto, CA 95352
Harris Moran Seed Co. 3670 Buffalo Rd. Rochester, NY 14624
Johnny's Select Seeds, Foss Hill Road, Albion, Maine 04910
Nichols Garden Nursery, 1190 No. Pacific Highway, Albany, OR 97321-4598
Rogers NK Seed Co. POB 4272 Boise, ID 83711
Sunseeds, 2320 Technology Pkwy. Hollister, CA 95023
W. Osborne Seed Co. Int'l. 1679 Highway 99 South, Mount Vernon, WA 98273 
Territorial Seed Co.  POB 27, Lorane, OR 97451
Samual Yates, Ltd., Withyfold Dr., Macclesfield, Cheshire SKI0 2BE, England
Zenner Bros. Seed Co., Inc.  1311 S.E. Gideon St. Portland, OR 97202

SOILS

      Faba beans do best on well-drained silt loam soils.  Sandy loams are but
require more frequent irrigation.  Faba beans produce best on soils which are
neutral or slightly acidic.  Lime should be applied if pH levels are below
5.6.  Follow soil test recommendations.

      Rotate faba beans with grains or other crops to reduce damage from
soil-borne diseases.  Crop residues of lettuce, carrots, cabbage, parsnips,
and cucurbits may harbor white mold sclerotia.   


SEED TREATMENT
     
      Use fungicide and insecticide treated seed. 

SOIL TEMPERATURE

      Faba beans germinate and grow well under cool soil conditions such as
those favorable for production of peas.  Fields may be planted as soon as they
can be worked in the spring, however, delaying planting till June or July may
reduce broad bean virus or chocolate spot infection.  In the temperate areas
of the Pacific Northwest, cold-hardy varieties like Aquadulce Claudia may be
planted in the fall (late September or October).

SEEDING AND SPACING

      Faba Bean seed numbers about 200-800 per pound.  About 60-80 lbs. are
used per acre.  Seed should be planted 5-6 inches apart in the row, with rows
24-36 inches apart.  Plant populations should be about 60,000 per acre.  Use
heavier seeding rate for fall planting than spring planting to compensate for
some over-winter mortality.

FERTILIZER

      Good fertilizer usage is only one of the important management practices,
including proper seeding, pest control, adequate irrigation, and timely
harvest.  Because of the influence of soil type, climatic conditions, and
other cultural practices, crop response from fertilizer may not always be
accurately predicted.  Soil test results, field experience, and knowledge of
specific crop requirements help determine the nutrients needed and the rate of
application.  

      Fertilizer applications for faba beans should insure adequate levels of
all nutrients.  Optimum fertilization is intended to result in for top quality
and yield, commensurate with maximum returns.  

      Recommended soil sampling procedures should be followed in order to
estimate fertilizer needs.  The Oregon State University Extension Service
agent in your county can provide you with soil sampling instructions and soil
sample bags and information sheets.  

      Recommendations are based on a row spacing of 36".  With decreased row
spacings fertilizer rates should be increased.  Use the following recommended
guidelines:

For WESTERN OREGON:

      NITROGEN (N)

      Rates of 50 to 80 lbs of N/A are generally recommended where faba beans
are grown on fields having a history of heavy fertilization and intensive
culture.  Rates of 80 to 110 lbs of N/A are recommended where forage legumes
or heavily fertilized vegetable crops were not grown the preceding year.  

      PHOSPHORUS (P)

      Phosphorus fertilizer should be banded at planting for vigorous early
seedling growth.  Bands should be located 2 to 3 inches to the side and 2 to 3
inches below the seed.  

      Response is greatest from bands properly placed at 2 x 2 inches.  

               If the OSU soil test         Apply this amount of 
               for P reads (ppm):         phosphate (P2 O5) lb/A:

                                                             0 - 15120 - 150
                                                            15 - 60 90 - 120
                                                            Over 60 60 - 90

      POTASSIUM (K)

      Potassium should be applied before planting or banded at planting time. 
Amounts above 60 lbs K2 O per acre should be broadcast and worked into the
seed bed.  

                    If the OSU soil test    Apply this amount of
                    for K reads (ppm):      potassium(K2 O) (lb/A)

                                                  0 - 7590 - 120
                                                 75 - 15060 - 90
                                                150 - 20040 - 60
                                                    Over 200  None

      SULFUR (S)

      Include 20-30 lbs/A of S in the fertilizer program for  faba beans.  S
is sometimes contained in fertilizers used to supply other nutrients such as
N, P, and K, but may not be present in sufficient quantity.  

      Plants absorb S in the form of sulfate.  Fertilizer materials supply S
in the form of sulfate and elemental S.  

      Elemental S must convert to sulfate in the soil before the S becomes
available to plants.  The conversion of elemental S to sulfate is usually
rapid for fine ground (less than 40 mesh) material in warm moist soil.  

      S in the sulfate form can be applied at planting time.  Some S fertili-
zer materials such as elemental S and ammonium sulfate have an acidifying
effect on soil.  

      The S requirements of faba beans can be provided by:

      1.  The application of 20-30 lbs S/A in the form of sulfate at or prior
to seeding.  
      2.  Applying 30-40 lbs S/A as fine ground (finer than 40 mesh) elemental
S the preceding year.  
      3.  Applying coarser ground elemental S at higher rates and less fre-
quently.  

      MAGNESIUM (Mg)

      When the soil test value is below 1.5 meq Mg/100g of soil or when cal-
cium (Ca) is ten times more than the Mg, apply 10 to 15 lb Mg/A banded at
planting.  If deficiency symptoms appear, spray with 10 lbs Epsom salts in 100
gals of water/A.  

      Mg can also be supplied in dolomite, which is a liming material and
reduces soil acidity to about the same degree as ground limestone.  Dolomite
should be mixed into the seed bed several weeks in advance of seeding.  

      BORON (B)

      Responses of  faba beans to B applications have not been observed in
experiments on growers' fields in western Oregon.  

      ZINC (Zn)

      Responses of  faba beans to B applications have not been observed in
experiments on growers' fields in western Oregon.  

      When the soil test is below 1 ppm Zn, a response to Zn is expected on
all soils.  

      Where Zn is required, either 10 lb/A of Zn should be broadcast and
worked into the soil prior to planting or 3 to 4 lbs/A of Zn should be banded
with the fertilizer at planting time.  
          
      A broadcast application of 10 lb Zn/A should supply Zn needs for 2 or 3
years.  

      LIME

      Lime applications should be made when the soil pH is 5.5 or below, or
when calcium (Ca) levels are below 5 meq Ca/100g of soil.  

                           If the OSU SMP Buffer          Apply this amount
                           test for lime reads:             of lime (T/A):

                                 Below 5.2                   4 - 5
                                 5.2 - 5.6                   3 - 4
                                 5.6 - 5.9                   2 - 3
                                 5.9 - 6.2                   1 - 2
                                  Over 6.2                       0

     The liming rate is based on 100-score lime.  Lime should be mixed into
the seed bed at least several weeks before seeding.  A lime application is
effective over several years.  Do not apply lime when the soil pH is above
6.0.

EASTERN OREGON, east of the Cascades:

                                                              lbs. per acre

                                    Nitrogen (N): 50-80
                                    Phosphorus (P2 O5):           50-100
                                    Potassium (K2 O):             up to 50
                                    Sulfur (S):                   20-30

IRRIGATION

      Irrigation is not recommended until about 2 weeks after planting.  Too
much water at seeding slows growth and may increase root rots.  

      During the rest of the season, keep moisture levels in the top foot of
soil at or above 50% of available water.  To avoid any water stress the two
critical times during bean development are during bloom and pod set.  It is
advisable to irrigate in the early morning hours so the plants may dry off
before the night.  A total of 10" - 16" may be needed in western Oregon
depending on location planting date, seasonal variation and variety.

      Approximate summer irrigation needs for the Hermiston area have been
found to be: 3.5 inches in May, 5.0 in June, 7.5 in July, and 7.0 in August.

      Soil type does not affect the amount of total water needed, but does
dictate frequency of water application.  Lighter soils need more frequent
water applications, but less water applied per application.

HARVESTING AND HANDLING

      Faba beans are usually harvested when the seeds have reached full size
but are still green.  They may also be harvested after the pods and seeds have
dried for various uses.  When harvested green, pods may be sold for shelling
by consumers or shelled, and the green seed packaged for sale.

      Store at 40 to 45 F. and relative humidity of 95%.  Faba bean pods or
seed lose moisture rapidly if not properly protected by packaging or by a
relative humidity of 95% or above.  When the relative humidity approaches
saturation, as in consumer packages, temperatures above 45 F. must be avoided
or decay is likely to be serious within a few days.

      Containers of faba beans should be stacked to allow abundant air
circulation.  If containers are packed close together, the temperature may
rise because of the heat of respiration, and the faba beans will deteriorate
rapidly.  When faba beans are stored in large bins or pallet boxes, provision
should be made for rapid cooling.  Faba beans stored too long or at too high a
storage temperature are subject to various decays.

                        PEST CONTROL FOR FABA BEANS

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW, TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST PEST
CONTROL HANDBOOKS, ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY, AND ARE REVISED ONLY ANNUALLY. 
BECAUSE OF CONSTANTLY CHANGING LABELS, LAWS, AND REGULATIONS, OREGON STATE
UNIVERSITY CAN ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF USE OF CHEMICALS
SUGGESTED HERE.  IN ALL CASES, READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS AND PRECAUTION-
ARY STATEMENTS ON THE SPECIFIC PESTICIDE PRODUCT LABEL.

                          USE PESTICIDES SAFELY!

Wear protective clothing and safety devices as recommended on the label. 
Bathe or shower after each use.

Read the pesticide label--even if you've used the pesticide before.  Follow
closely the instructions on the label (and any other directions you have).

Be cautious when you apply pesticides.  Know your legal responsibility as a
pesticide applicator.  You may be liable for injury or damage resulting from
pesticide use.


WEED CONTROL

     The Pacific Northwest Weed Control Handbook has no control entries for
this crop.  

     Cultivate as often as necessary when weeds are small.  Proper culti-
vation, field selection and rotations can reduce or eliminate the need for
chemical weed control.  


INSECT CONTROL

     The Pacific Northwest Insect Control Handbook has no control entries for
this crop.  

     Proper rotations and field selection can minimize problems with insects.


DISEASE CONTROL

     The Pacific Northwest Disease Control Handbook has no control entries for
this crop.  

     Proper rotations, field selection, sanitation, spacings, fertilizer and
irrigation practices can reduce the risk of many diseases.  Fields can be
tested for presence of harmful nematodes.  Using seed from reputable sources
reduces risk from "seed born" diseases.




         ---------------------------------------------------
         --------------------------------------------------- 
         This  information was prepared by the Oregon  State 
         University   Extension  Service  from  Oregon   and 
         Pacific  NW publications as well as other vegetable 
         production guidelines  from public institutions  in
         the U.S. and Canada.  These guidelines are intended
         as a general guide for Oregon  commercial vegetable
         producers.  Address  comments or questions  to your
         County  Extension   Agent  or  Dr.  N.  S. Mansour,
         Department of Horticulture, Oregon State University
         Corvallis, OR 9733l 
         --------------------------------------------------- 
         ---------------------------------------------------   


From dragon@csulb.edu Sun Mar 12 22:09:23 EST 1995
Article: 57926 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!csulb.edu!beach.csulb.edu!dragon
From: Brian Lo <dragon@csulb.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FAQ: Cabbages
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:42:47 -0800
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
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                                   CABBAGE
                       Brassica oleracea (Capitata Group)

VARIETIES (approximately 75 days for early varieties, 90 days for mid-season, 
to over 120 days for late large-headed varieties).

      A wide range of excellent cabbage varieties are available that are 
resistant to heat, cold, and a number of important diseases and physiological 
disorders.  Choose test varieties carefully.  The following is only a repre
sentative listing. 

      Fresh Market:
      Early - Heads Up, Market Victor, Earliana, Stonehead, Princess, Golden 
Acre. For Trial:  Cheers, Green Cup (both Fusarium Yellows resistant and Black 
Rot tolerant)
      Mid-season - Applause, Bravo, Market Topper, Market Prize, Tastee, 
Protector.  For trial: Pacifica, Quisto.  K-K cross and O-S Cross (heat 
tolerant, large).
      Late - Zerlina, S-D Cross, Excel, Bartolo, Winter Star, Danish Ballhead 
strains, Houston Evergreen.

      Savoy Cabbage:  Savoy Ace.

      Processing:  Processor specifies varieties.  The following have been 
grown successfully: Bravo, King Cole, Sanibel, Roundup, Superette, Titan 90, 
Danish Ballhead, Late Flat Dutch.  For trial:  Atria (very late); Carlton 
(mid-season); Ergon (very late); Krautking (late, large); Krautpacker (mid-
season); Marvellon (early); Orbit (late); Rodolfo (mid-season); Sagitta 
(late).  Those for trial are suggested on the basis of New York data.

      Red Cabbage: Ruby Perfection, Red Acre, Ruby, Ruby Ball, Red Head.  For 
Trial:  Cardinal.

      Note: Black Rot resistance is reported for the varieties Cheers, Green 
Cup, Zerlina, Bravo, Genesis, Protector and the red types Ruby Perfection and 
Red Head.  Also, Rio Verde, Bravo, King Cole, Little Rock, Falcon, Titanic 90, 
and Ruby Perfection (red) may be less susseptible to thrip injury (New York 
data).

      Overwintering Cabbage, for trial only:  Green Glow, Spring Time, Spring 
Hero, Spring Queen 2nd, F-S Cross.  Varieties are listed by order of maturity.
Intended for planting in September for spring and early summer harvest 
(approximately 220 days) in mild winter areas.  Do not plant too early to 
avoid bolting.

      Ornamental Cabbages, also known as flowering kales:  Sekito, Red Pigeon, 
White Pigeon, Rose Bouquet, White Lady.  These may be marketed as garnishes 
for salad bars.

      Novelty:  Walking Stick Cabbage.  Used to make walking sticks with 
character!  Thompson and Morgan Seed Co. provides seed and instructions.
                                                            
SEED COMPANIES

Abbott & Cobb Inc. POB F307, Feasterville, PA 19047
Asgrow Seed Company, POB 5038, Salinas CA 93915
American Takii Inc., 301 Natividad Rd. Salinas, CA 93906
Bejo Seeds, 1323 E. Fir St. Mount Vernon WA 98273
Brinker Orsetti Seed Co., 2339 A Technology Parkway, Hollister CA 95023-2513.
      408/636-4822
Daehnfeldt Inc. POB 947, Albany, OR 97321
Elsoms Seeds Ltd. Spalding, Lincolnshire, England PE11 1QG
Ferry-Morse Seed Co. POB 4938, 555 Codoni Ave. Modesto, CA 95352
Gleckler's Seedmen, Unusual Seed Specialties.  Metamora OH 43540
Harris Moran Seed Co. 3670 Buffalo Rd. Rochester, NY 14624
Reed's Seeds, 3343 NYS Route 215, Cortland, NY 13045
Rogers NK Seed Co. PO Box 4727 Boise, ID 83711-4727 
Nunhems Zaden, Canners Seed Corp. 221 E. Main St. Lewisville, ID 83431
Royal Sluis Inc. 1293 Harkins Rd. Salinas, CA 93901
Sakata Seed America Inc. P.O. Box 877, Morgan Hill, CA 97037
Stokes Seeds Inc. POB 548, Buffalo, NY 14240
Sunseeds Genetics, Inc.  P O Box 1438, Hollister, CA 95023
Thompson and Morgan. POB 1308 Jackson, NJ 08527  ph: 201/363-2225
W. Osborne Seed Co. Int'l. 1679 Highway 99 South, Mount Vernon, WA 98273 
Zenner Bros. Seed Co., Inc.  1311 S.E. Gideon St. Portland, OR 97202

IMPORTANT

      Before planting this Crucifer crop, consider the following important 
factors:
      1.  No crucifer crop, or related weed has been present in the field for 
at least 2 years, 4 years preferable.  Crucifer crops include cabbage, 
cauliflower, broccoli, kale, kohlrabi, Brussels sprouts, Chinese cabbage, all 
mustards, turnips, rutabagas, radishes etc.  Cruciferous weeds include wild 
radish, wild mustards etc.  Also, crucifer plant waste should not have been 
dumped on these fields.
      2.  Soil pH should be 6.5 or higher.  Soil pH over 6.8 is necessary to 
manage club root.  The application of 1500 lbs/acre of hydrated lime, 6 weeks 
prior to planting is recommended for soils with pH less than 7.5 for club root 
control (see Disease Control section for more details).
      3.  Arrange to keep transplanted and direct-seeded fields separate to 
minimize spread of certain diseases that are more prevalent in transplanted 
fields.

SOIL

      Cabbage may be grown on a variety of soils but it does best on a well- 
drained, loam soil well supplied with organic matter.  Sandy loams are 
preferred for early crops.  Adjust soil pH to 6.0 - 6.8 for maximum yields.

SEED AND SEED-BED TREATMENTS

      Cabbage seed numbers approximately 144,000 per pound.  Pelletizing is 
not necessary but primed and coated seed is becoming popular.  Consult your 
seed dealer about the availability of primed seed.  Cabbage is most commonly 
direct seeded.  Some early production is transplanted.

      Use certified, or hot-water treated seed and fungicide treat seed to 
protect against several serious seed borne diseases.  Hot water seed treat
ments are very specific (122 F exactly, for 25 to 30 minutes; the wet seed 
must then be quickly cooled and dried).  The seed treatments are best done by 
the seed company, and can usually be provided upon request.

TRANSPLANT PRODUCTION

      Seed Beds for transplants:
           
      Locate these in an open, well drained area, free of club-root.  Lime if 
necessary, and fertilize with 10-30-10 at 625 lb/acre or its equivalent.  

      When seedlings are to be grown in a seed-bed for production of trans
plants, choose a site where cole crops have not been grown before, or fumigate 
prior to seeding with an approved fumigant following lable and manufacturer's 
recommendations.

      Always use certified or hot water treated seed for transplant produc
tion.  Seed in a greenhouse for an early crop, in a cold frame for a less 
early crop, and in outdoor seed-beds when the weather is warm enough for 
germination and growth (above 50 F).  In each case seed 5-6 weeks ahead of 
when the plants are wanted for transplanting.

      Four to 6 ounces of high quality, sized and density graded seed will 
provide enough transplants to plant 1 acre.  In the seed-bed use a drill with 
a scatter shoe to drop 15 to 20 seeds per foot in rows 10 inches apart.  

      Greenhouse transplant production

      Precision seed into modular flats, styrofoam trays or blocks of a peat- 
lite (peat vermiculite) mix or other suitable growing medium.  Crowding should 
be avoided. Provide 1.5-2.5 square inches per plant in modular trays.

      Temperatures should be maintained above 45 F at night and below 85 F 
during the day.  Seven days before transplanting start the hardening off 
process. 

      Follow the same process in a cold frame, or seed directly into the 
covered soil after it has been limed, fertilized and fumigated as for outdoor 
seed-beds.

FIELD SEEDING

      In western Oregon fresh market cabbage may be field seeded from mid 
March to August 10.  Cabbage for processing is generally seeded from mid April 
to the end of July.

      Preparation for direct seeding needs the same attention a seed-bed area 
would be given  A fine-textured soil, free of rocks, clods and trash, firm and 
very level, is required for precision seeding.

      Use a precision seeder such as a Stanhay, or Gaspardo vacuum planter, to 
drop 2 seeds 2 inches apart every 15 inches.  After the first true leaves have 
formed, thin to one plant per location.  In continuous seeding, thin the 
plants so as to leave 15 to 18 inches between them.

SOIL

      Cabbage may be grown on a variety of soils but it does best on a well- 
drained, loam soil well supplied with organic matter.  Sandy loams are 
preferred for early crops.  Adjust soil pH to 6.5 - 7.0 for maximum yields.

FERTILIZER

      A soil test is the most accurate guide to fertilizer requirements.  The 
following recommendations are general guidelines for western Oregon:

      Good management practices are essential if optimum fertilizer responses 
are to be realized in the production of cabbage.  These practices include use 
of recommended varieties, selection of adapted soils, weed control, disease 
and insect control, good seedbed preparation, proper seeding methods, and 
timely harvest.  

      Because of the influence of soil type, climatic conditions, and other 
cultural practices, crop responses from fertilizer may not always be accu
rately predicted.  Soil test results, field experience, and knowledge of 
specific crop requirements help determine the nutrients needed and the rate of 
application.  

      The fertilizer application for cabbage should insure adequate levels of 
all nutrients.  Optimum fertilization is intended to produce top quality and  
yields in keeping with maximum returns.  

      The suggested fertilizer applications are based on a 36" row spacing.  
With decreased row spacings, increased fertilizer rates are suggested.  

      Recommended soil sampling procedures should be followed in order to 
estimate fertilizer needs.  The Oregon State University Extension Service 
agent in your county can provide you with soil sampling instructions, soil 
sample bags, and information sheets.  

      Where cabbage is direst seeded, see "field fertilization section below.  
If transplants are to be used, and if transplants are to be field grown, 
fertilize transplant productions beds as follows:

                         TRANSPLANT BED FERTILIZATION

      Broadcast and work into the transplant bed:  

      1.  40 to 70 lbs Nitrogen/A.  
      2.  Apply phosphorus, potassium, sulfur, magnesium, boron, molybdenum, 
and lime up to the maximum rates suggested below for field applications.  

                            TRANSPLANTING SOLUTIONS

      Dilute solutions of complete fertilizers high in phosphorus promote 
quick recovery and early growth of transplants.  One-half pint of trans
planting solution should be injected into the furrow at the roots of each 
plant at time of transplanting.  A transplanting solution may be prepared by 
dissolving   3 lbs. of 11-48-0 or similar monoammonium phosphate fertilizer in 
a 55 gallon drum of water.

                              FIELD FERTILIZATION

      NITROGEN (N):

      A total application of 80-100 lbs. N/A is suggested.

      Broadcast about half of the N just prior to direct seeding or trans
planting or band 60-90 lbs N/A with the phosphorus.  Broadcast the remaining 
nitrogen at the time of last cultivation, or 1 to 2 weeks before the first 
cutting.  At the higher rates, two applications should be made 2 to 3 weeks 
apart. 

Nitrogen liquid fertilizer formulations having herbicidal effects:

      AN-20, Ammonium Thiosulfate and mixtures of these two materials can be 
used successfully in a number of Brassica crops such as broccoli, cabbage, and 
cauliflower.  The amount of nitrogen per gallon of material, the rate at which 
it is applied, and the phyto-toxicity of the material determines what crops 
these can be used on.

      All of these materials, when applied at the proper time and manner have 
the added benefit of ancillary control of many small (less than 3 inches) 
broadleaf weeds such as groundsell, pineapple weed, shepherdspurse, mallow, 
pigweed, hairy nightshade chickweed and many others.  Poor, or no control is 
obtained on lambs quarters, purslane, henbit, black nightshade, knotweed, sow 
thistle, malva goosefoot and grasses.

      When using these nitrogen sources in foliar applications, follow cau
tions listed.  Severe crop injury may occur if cautions are not observed.

      General cautions for the use of nitrogen liquid fertilizer formulations 
are:

      *  Apply only after the crop has at least two true leaves.  Application 
at between the 3rd and 6th true leaf stages is least likely to cause crop 
injury.
      *  Do not apply within 4 days of a period of cool, cloudy or rainy 
weather, or if free water is present on the leaves.
      *  Discontinue application if spray droplets do not roll off or "bead- 
up" on the leaves.  This indicates a deficiency of adequate waxy cuticle, and 
may be a temporary condition due to rapid growth, cloudy or rainy weather, or 
more seriously, the lack of adaptability of the variety.
      *  Do not apply within 4 days after a foliar pesticide has been applied, 
or with any wetting agent. 
      *  Use large nozzles to minimize misting and possible injury to the crop 
growing point.
      *  Direct the spray to the base of the crop with wide, low nozzles, or 
use crop shields whenever this can be done while still obtaining complete 
coverage of the weeds.

AN-20 fertilizer formulation:

      This is a manufactured 20-0-0 formulation (containing 20% N) that may be 
applied at 50 to 70 gallons of product per acre as a foliar spray.  This 
formulation weighs 10.55 lbs per gallon and contains 2.11 lbs N/gallon of 
product and would provide approximately 100 to 140 lbs N/acre (but some N is 
lost through volatilization).  Do not irrigate for 48 hours after application, 
but irrigate then to move the fertilizer into the root zone.

      When this treatment is used, subsequent nitrogen side dressings may be 
reduced by a portion of the amount of N applied in the treatment.

      Note: Mixtures of An-20 and Ammonium thiosulfate (usually 1:1) can be 
made which will reduce the amount of nitrogen applied, provide some sulfur (if 
AN-20 only would have been applied, and reducing the sulfur if only Ammonium 
thiosulfate were to be used), and be as effective as either material alone.  
Application rates are still held at 50 to 70 gallons of the mixture per acre. 

      Note:  This formulation is different from a solution that could be 
prepared by dissolving ammonium nitrate in water.  Such a solution would not 
have the same concentration or herbicidal effect.

      Also, To prevent crop injury, follow the cautions listed above.

                                    *****
Ammonium thiosulfate:

      This is a manufactured 12-0-0-26 formulation (containing 12% N and 26% 
sulfur) and weighs 9.33 lbs per gallon.  It may be applied at 50 to 70 gallons 
of product per acre as a foliar spray.  This solution contains 1.12 lbs 
nitrogen and 2.4 lbs sulfur per gallon of product and would provide approxi
mately 55 to 75 lbs N/acre (some N may be lost through volatilization).  At 
the application gallonage mentioned, about 150 to 168 lbs of S are also 
applied.  Do not irrigate for 48 hours after application, but irrigate then to 
move the fertilizer into the root zone.

      When this treatment is used, subsequent nitrogen side dressings may be 
reduced by a portion of the amount of N applied in the treatment.

      Note: Mixtures of An-20 and Ammonium thiosulfate (usually 1:1) can be 
made which will reduce the amount of nitrogen applied, provide some sulfur (if 
AN-20 only would have been applied, and reducing the sulfur if only Ammonium 
thiosulfate were to be used), and be as effective as either material alone.  
Application rates are still held at 50 to 70 gallons of the mixture per acre. 

      Also, To prevent crop injury, follow the cautions listed above. 

                                    *****

      PHOSPHORUS (P):

      Phosphorus fertilizer should be banded at the time of seeding or trans
planting.  Bands should be located 2-3" to the side of the seeds or plants and 
3-4" deep.  

         If the OSU soil test                    Apply this amount of 
          for P reads (ppm):                    phosphate (P2 O5) (lb/A):
 
               0 - 30                                 150 - 200
              30 - 50                                 100 - 150
              Over 25                                  80 - 100

      POTASSIUM (K):

      Limit band applications of K to 90 lbs K2 O/A.  Broadcast remainder of K 
and work into seedbed prior to planting.  The total of N plus K2 O in the band 
should not exceed 90 lbs./A.  Apply K as follows:

             If the OSU soil test             Apply this amount of
              for K reads (ppm):               potash (K2 O lb/A):

                     0 - 150                     150 - 200
                   150 - 200                      90 - 150
                   200 - 250                      60 - 90
                    Over 250                        None

      SULFUR (S):

      Include 25-40 lbs/A of S in the fertilizer pro gram.  S is sometimes 
contained in fertilizers used to supply other nutrients such as N, P, and K, 
but may not be present in sufficient quantity.  

      Plants absorb S in the form of sulfate.  Fertilizer materials supply S 
in the form of sulfate and elemental S.  Elemental S must convert to sulfate 
in the soil before the S becomes avail able to plants.  The conversion of 
elemental S to sulfate is usually rapid for fine ground (less than 40 mesh) 
material in warm moist soil).  

      Sulfur in the sulfate form can be applied at planting time.  Some S 
fertilizer materials such as elemental S and ammonium sulfate have an acidify
ing effect on soil.  

      The S requirements of crucifers can be provided by:  

      1.  The application of 25-40 lbs S/A in the form of sulfate at or prior 
to seeding or planting.  
      2.  Applying 40-50 lbs S/A as fine ground (finer than 40 mesh) elemental 
S the preceding year.  
      3.  Applying coarser ground elemental S at higher rates and less fre
quently.  

      MAGNESIUM (Mg):

      When the OSU soil test value for Mg is below 2 meq/100g soil, band 15- 
20 lbs Mg/A at transplanting or seeding time.  If Mg deficiency symptoms 
develop, spray with 10 lbs of Epsom salts in 100 gals of water/A.  

      Magnesium can also be supplied in dolomite, which is a liming material 
and reduces soil acidity to about the same degree as ground limestone.  
Dolomite should be mixed into the seedbed at least several weeks in advance of 
seeding and preferably the preceding year.  It can also be supplied by the 
application of Epsom salts or Sul-Po-Mag fertilizer prior to seeding or 
transplanting as follows:

      * Sul-Po-Mag at 150 to 200 lb./acre.  
      * OR  Epsom salts at 150 to 200 lb./acre.
      * OR  Dolomitic Limestone at 225 to 275 lb./acre.

      BORON (B):

      Cabbage is sensitive to boron deficiency.  Apply boron as follows:

             If the OSU soil test                Apply this amount
              for B reads (ppm):                    of B (lbs/A):

                    0 - 1                         3 - 4 broadcast
                    1 - 3                         1 - 2 broadcast
                   Over 3                       1/2 - 1 foliar spray
 
      A satisfactory foliar spray contains 1 lb B/100 gals of water.  

      Fertilizers containing B should not be banded.

      Fields East of the Cascades or where winter rainfall is low, and to 
which the higher rates of boron has been applied should not normally be 
planted to beans or cucumbers the following year, as both these crops are 
extremely sensitive to boron.



      LIME:

      If a mineral soil is below pH 6.3 or an organic soil is below 5.5 and/or 
the calcium (Ca) level is below 8 meq/100g soil lime should be applied.  
Compared to other vegetables cabbage has a fairly high lime requirement.  

      The application of lime is suggested when the soil pH is below 6.3 

              If the OSU SMP Buffer             Apply this amount
               test for lime reads:                of lime (T/A):

                   Below 5.6                          5 - 7
                   5.7 - 5.9                          4 - 5
                   5.9 - 6.1                          3 - 4
                   6.1 - 6.3                          2 - 3
                   6.3 - 6.6                          1 - 2
                   Over  6.6                          None

      The liming rate is based on 100-score lime.  

      Lime should be mixed into the seedbed at least several weeks before 
seeding and preferably the preceding year.  A lime application is effective 
over several years.  

      Some soils may have a fairly high OSU SMP buffer value (over 6.6) and a 
low pH (below 6.0).  This condition can be caused by the ap plication of 
acidifying fertilizer.  In this case the low pH value is temporary and the pH 
of the soil will increase as the fertilizer completes its reaction with the 
soil.  This temporary "active" acidity from fertilizer is encountered follow
ing recent applications of most nitrogen fertilizer materials.  Acidifying 
fertilizers also have a long term acidifying effect on soil which is cumula
tive and leads to lower OSU SMP buffer readings.  

      Sandy soils to which fertilizers have not been recently applied some
times record low pH and high SMP buffer values.  In such cases, a light 
application of lime (1 to 2 ton/A) should suffice to neutralize soil acidity.  

      For acid soils low in Mg (less than 0.5 meq Mg/100g soil) one T/A of 
dolomite lime can be used as a Mg source.  Dolomite and ground limestone have 
about the same ability to neutralize soil acidity.  

      The P, K, Mg, B and lime recommendations are based on soil test values 
from the Soil Testing Laboratory, OSU, Corvallis, Oregon.  

      These recommendations are largely based on the results of experiments 
conducted by Oregon State University Agricultural Experiment Station Hort
iculture and Soils Department research faculty.  

      These recommendations are quoted from OSU Fertilizer Guide FG 27.



IRRIGATION

      In soil suspected of having club root, care should be taken in not 
over-watering transplants after setting them out.  A total of 10-14" of water 
may be needed for direct seeded fields and 10-12" for transplanted ones in 
western Oregon.  Approximate summer irrigation needs for the Hermiston area 
have been found to be: 3.5 inches in May, 5.0 in June, 7.5 in July, and 7.0 in 
August.

      Soil type does not affect the amount of total water needed, but does 
dictate frequency of water application.  Lighter soils need more frequent 
water applications, but less water applied per application.

HARVESTING, HANDLING AND STORAGE

      In western Oregon fresh market cabbage may be harvested from mid July to 
the end of December.  The main harvest period is between the first of August 
and mid November.

      Cabbage for processing is generally harvested from about mid July to mid 
November.

      Average yields of processed cabbage in the Pacific Northwest are 
approximately 30 tons/acre with good yields about 40 tons/acre.  Average fresh 
market yield is reported at 235 cwt./acre with good yields about 300 cwt./a
cre.

      Processed cabbage can be machine harvested, but is ususally hand 
harvested in the Pacific Northwest.  All fresh market cabbage is hand harves
ted.  Heads should be harvested when firm and before they split or burst.  In 
harvesting for fresh market, leave 4-6 wrapper leaves attached to the head.  
The wrapper leaves are usually removed when harvesting for kraut. 

      STORAGE (Quoted from USDA Ag. Handbook #66):

      Store cabbage at 32 F. and a relative humidity of 98 to 100%.  A large 
percentage of the late crop of cabbage is stored and sold during the winter 
and early spring, or until the new crop from the southern states appears on 
the market.  If stored under proper conditions late cabbage should keep for 5 
to 6 months.  The longest keeping cultivars belong to the Danish class.  
Early-crop cabbage, especially southern grown, has a storage life of 3 to 6 
weeks.

      Cabbage is successfully held in common storage in the northern states, 
where a fairly uniform inside air temperature of 32 to 35 F. can be maintai
ned.  Many such storage houses are to be found, principally in New York, 
Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

      Storage houses should be insulated sufficiently to prevent freezing of 
the cabbage; for although slight freezing does little harm, hard freezing may 
cause considerable loss.  Heaters are sometimes needed to prevent freezing of 
cabbage in common storage during severe cold weather.

      Cabbage wilts quickly if held under too dry storage conditions; hence, 
the humidity should be high enough to keep the leaves fresh and turgid.  Use 
of polyethylene liners or pallet covers to prevent  desiccation can prove 
desirable under some  storage conditions.  Cabbage stored at 32 F. has less 
decay when the relative humidity is maintained at or near  saturation (98 to 
100 %) than at 90 to 95 %.
      
      Many growers now use pallet boxes as both field and storage containers 
so that there is no handling of the cabbage from the time of harvest until 
preparation for shipment or processing.  Some of the larger storages stack 
these pallet boxes five high.

      An increasing quantity of cabbage is now held in mechanically refrige
rated storages.  The storage life of late cabbage can be extended for several 
months if it is held in an atmosphere with 2.5 to 5 % oxygen and 2.5 to 5 % 
carbon dioxide.  Cabbage should be handled carefully from field to storage, 
and only solid heads with no yellowing , decay, or mechanical injuries should 
be stored.  Before the heads are stored, all loose leaves  should be trimmed 
away; only three to six tight wrapper leaves should be left on the head.   
left on the head.  Loose leaves interfere with ventilation between heads, and 
ventilation is essential for successful storage.  Upon removal from storage, 
the heads should be trimmed again to remove loose and damaged leaves.  Cabbage 
should not be stored with fruits emitting ethylene.  Concentrations of 10 to 
100 ppm of ethylene cause leaf abscission and loss of green color within 5 
weeks.

      The most common decays found in stored cabbage are watery soft rot, 
bacterial soft rot, gray mold rot, alternaria leaf spot, and black leaf speck.

PACKAGING

      Containers and weights commonly used for cabbage are crates (l 3/4 
bushels) 53-60 pounds, 50 pound mesh sacks, or 53 pound cartons.
      

                            PEST CONTROL FOR CABBAGE

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW, TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST PEST 
CONTROL HANDBOOKS, ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY, AND ARE REVISED ONLY ANNUALLY.  
BECAUSE OF CONSTANTLY CHANGING LABELS, LAWS, AND REGULATIONS, OREGON STATE 
UNIVERSITY CAN ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF USE OF CHEMICALS 
SUGGESTED HERE.  IN ALL CASES, READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS AND PRECAUTION
ARY STATEMENTS ON THE SPECIFIC PESTICIDE PRODUCT LABEL.

                          USE PESTICIDES SAFELY!

Wear protective clothing and safety devices as recommended on the label.  
Bathe or shower after each use.

Read the pesticide label--even if you've used the pesticide before.  Follow 
closely the instructions on the label (and any other directions you have).

Be cautious when you apply pesticides.  Know your legal responsibility as a 
pesticide applicator.  You may be liable for injury or damage resulting from 
pesticide use.


WEED CONTROL

     Cultivate as often as necessary when weeds are small.  Proper cultiva
tion, field selection and rotations can reduce or eliminate the need for 
chemical weed control.  

     THE WEED TREATMENTS LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST 
WEED CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS 
FOR CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES, AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

WEED MANAGEMENT GENERAL STRATEGY            

Weed suppression in crucifers begins by rotating crops that involve different 
weed control practices or herbicides to disrupt weed life cycles.  Row 
spacings and plant densities vary to achieve head size depending on the   
market and to suppress weeds.  Early season weed control comprises application 
of an herbicide and/or cultivation(s).
______________________________________________________________________________

STALE SEEDBEDS FOR VEGETABLE PRODUCTION

Stale seedbeds are sometimes used for vegetable production when other selec
tive weed control practices are limited or unavailable.  The concept depends 
on controlling the first flush of emerged weeds before planting or emergence 
of the crop followed by minimal soil disturbance which reduces subsequent weed 
flushes during establishment of the crop.  Following establishment, other weed 
control practices including cultivation or use of other herbicides can be 
used.

1.   Prepare a seedbed, preferably 2 to 3 weeks before planting to achieve     
     maximum weed seed germination near the soil surface.  Soil temperatures   
     and moisture must be reasonable or results will be erratic.

2.   Plant the crop with minimum soil disturbance.  Otherwise, new weed seed   
     will be exposed to favorable germinating conditions.

3.   Just before or after planting but before crop emergence, treat the field 
     by flaming or with herbicide to kill all germinated or exposed weeds.

Weed Treatment             Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flaming                                      

     Use liquid propane or similar fuel-burning equipment to quickly sear the 
     weeds, but not consume them with flame. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
paraquat                    0.625 to 0.94 lb ai/A   
  Gramoxone Extra    

     Restricted-use pesticide.  Do not ingest or inhale spray mist.  Wearing 
     protective face shields, respirators, and clothing is advised.  Apply     
     during or after planting, but before crop emergence.  Add a nonionic 
     surfactant or oil concentrate according to label specifications, taking 
     care to avoid anionic formulations that react in the tank to form         
     insoluble precipitates.  Exposed crop plants will be killed.  Do not 
     apply preplant or preemergence to soils lacking clay minerals, such as 
     peat, muck, pure sand, or artificial planting media.  (Acts as contact; 
     absorbs energy produced by photosynthesis forming peroxides that disrupt  
     living cells.) 
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
glyphosate              Consult Labels             
  Roundup                                    
  Roundup RT                                 
  (E. Washington and                      
  Idaho only)                           
  or Honcho +                               
  nonionic surfactant                          

     Apply to actively growing weeds either preplant in conjunction with site 
     preparatioon or preemergence crops listed on the label.  Consult label 
     for specific rates, times of application, and perennial species control-  
     led.  Generally 1 to 1.5 lbs ai/A should be used for annual weeds, while 
     perennial weeds require higher rates.  Addition of a surfactant or 
     ammonium sulfate improves activity when weeds are stressed.  Do not 
     apply more than 8 lbs. ai/A per year, nor plant non-labeled crops within 
     12 months  following application. (Inhibits production of 3 amino       
     acids and protein synthesis.)
______________________________________________________________________________



PREPLANT INCORPORATED 

Direct Seeded or Transplanted

Weed Treatment            Active Ingredient Per Acre or Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
trifluralin             0.5 to 1.0 lb ai/A 
  Treflan                                      

     Apply before planting and incorporate 2 to 3 inches deep by cross-disk
     ing or using a PTO rotary tiller.  Do not exceed 0.75 lb ai/A for direct 
     seeded crops.  Spray only once and avoid overlapping.  Consult label     
     for planting sensitive crops within 12 months.  (Inhibits mitosis, 
     primarily in shoots).
______________________________________________________________________________

PREEMERGENCE 

Weed Treatment            Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
napropamide             1 to 2 lb ai/A           
  Devrinol

     Selectivity is based on Devrinol placement above the seed or transplant 
     depth.  For direct seeded crops, apply to soil surface immediately after  
     planting and sprinker irrigate within 24 hours to wet soil 1 to 2 inches 
     deep, or mechanically incorporate not exceeding the seed depth.  
     Transplants can be treated preplant with shallow incorporation or 
     postplant with sprinkler irrigation.  Rotational crops listed on the    
     label require deep moldboard plowing while other crops should not be 
     planted sooner than 12 months following application.  (Inhibits root   
     growth).
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
DCPA                    4.5 to 9 lb ai/A    
  Dacthal                                      

     Performs erratically west of Cascades.  Elsewhere, apply immediately 
     after seeding or transplanting.  Results can be improved if rainfall or   
     overhead irrigation occurs immediately after application.  Consult label 
     for planting sensitive crops within 8 months.  (Inhibits mitosis).    
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
oxyfluorfen                  0.25 to 0.5 lb. ai/A   
  Goal                                
  (transplanted broccoli,                     
  cabbage, and cauliflower)                    

     Apply soon after final soil preparation and before transplanting through 
     the treated layer with minimal soil disturbance.  Select the lower rate 
     for coarse textured soils  with less than 1% organic matter.  Temporary 
     injury may occur when leaves contact treated soil.  Severe injury may 
     result when transplants are under stress due to temperature, disease,     
     fertilizer salts, nematodes, insects, pesticides, and storage conditions 
     or when small transplants grown in 1 inch cells are planted.  Following 
     transplanting, apply at least 0.25 inches overhead moisture.  Plant only 
     crops listed on the label within 10 months following treatment.  Grazing 
     of crop residue or treated fields is prohibited.  (Acts as a selective 
     contact that disrupts cell membranes.)
______________________________________________________________________________

POSTEMERGENCE

Weed Treatment            Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sethoxydim                   0.19 to 0.28 lb ai/A      
  Poast                   

     Identify susceptible grasses and apply at optimum growth stage listed on 
     the label.  Add 2 pints/A nonphytotoxic crop oil concentrate to improve 
     leaf absorption.  Erratic control often occurs when grasses are stunted 
     or stressed from drought, high temperatures, or low fertility.  Resis
     tant grasses include annual bluegrass and all fine fescues, whereas 
     quackgrass can be suppressed.  Do not apply within 30 days of harvest, 
     nor exceed 3 pints/A per season.  (Inhibits fatty acid production, cell 
     membranes, and new growth.
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________


INSECT CONTROL

     Proper rotations and field selection can minimize problems with insects.  

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST INSECT 
CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS FOR 
CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

Insect and Description                Control, Active Ingredient Per Acre
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aphids, including                           Monitor - 0.5 to 1 lb     
Cabbage aphid 
  Brevicoryne brassicae                     malathion - 1.25 lb
Turnip aphid                                                  
  Hyadaphis erysimi                         Phosdrin - 0.25 lb        
Green peach aphid                                             
  Myzus persicae                            Dibrom - 1 to 2 lb
                                                              
Both species gray, mealy plant              diazinon - 0.5 lb
lice forming colonies on foliage,                             
on or in heads or in buds. Weak-            Metasystox-R - 0.375 to 0.75 lb
en plants and constitute an                                   
adulterant in processed foods.              endosulfan - 0.75 to 1.0 lb 
                                                                          
For effective aphid control,                Di-Syston - 1 lb
application of insecticides
should start with first appearance          Apply granules as a band on   
of aphids and be continued at reg-          each side of seed furrow or  
ular intervals as aphids appear.            transplanted row at planting,
This is particularly true of                or as a side dressing after  
broccoli and cauliflower to prevent         plants become established.   
aphids from concealing themselves             
in heads.                                   Liquid injections can be made 
                                            in similar manner. Do not apply 
NOTE:                                       directly to seed. See label for 
To be effective Di-Syston application       complete details.               
should be followed by sprinkler or         
furrow irrigation.  Di-Syston is            dimethoate - 0.25 to 0.5 lb   
relatively insoluble and requires                                         
high soil moisture to give best results.    Lorsban 50W - 1 lb          

                                            Pyrellin - 1 to 2 pt  

                                            Diatect - 1 to 3 lb formulation
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cabbage maggot                              Transplantings               
Delia brassicae                              diazinon - 0.125 to 0.25 lb/50 
                                             gal of water
White maggots that feed on                                               
roots and underground stems                 Preplant and transplant
and weaken, lodge, and kill                  Lorsban 4E - 0.05 to 0.086 lb 
plants. Adult is a small gray fly            ai/1000 row ft.              
that lays white, oblong eggs at             
plant bases.                                Preplant
                                             Lorsban 15G - 0.04 to 0.09 lb

                                             diazinon - 2 to 3 lb         
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cutworms and                                Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb     
Armyworms                                                                
                                            endosulfan - 1 lb
Several species.                            Do not feed treated plants.
Treat when worms are small.                 
                                            carbaryl - 1 to 2 lb  

                                            permethrin - 0.05 to 0.2 lb

                                            Bacillus thuringiensis - 1
                                            to 2 qt.  Add an appropriate 
                                            spreader-sticker to enhance   
                                            control.  Most effective on   
                                            small larvae.                 
                                                                          
                                            Lorsban 50W - 1 lb            
                  
                                            Larvin - 0.4 to 0.8 lb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Diamondback moth                            endosulfan - 1 lb            
Plutella maculipennis 
                                            diazinon - 0.5 lb
Small, pale yellowish-green larvae                                       
with erect black hairs.  Eats holes         
in foliage.  Adults are small gray                                       
or grown moths with white marks on                 
forewings that form a diamond when                                       
wings are folded.                           
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flea beetles                                endosulfan - 0.75 to 1.0 lb
including                                                              
cabbage flea beetle                         carbaryl - 1 lb            
Phyllotreta cruciferae                                                 
                                            methoxychlor - 2.25 lb     
Small, shiny, steel-blue, jump-                                        
ing beetle. Eats round holes in             Di-Syston - 1 lb
leaves of wild and cultivated                                          
crucifers. Particularly serious             permethrin 0.05 to 0.2 lb     
on seedlings.                                                          
                                            Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb      
NOTE:  Carbaryl and endosulfan      
combined together have given most           Lorsban 50W - 1 lb
effective control.                                      
                                            Larvin - 0.4 to 0.8 lb

                                            Pyrellin - 1.5 to 2 pt            
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Garden symphylan                            Dyfonate - 2 lb   
Scutigerella immaculata                                       
                                            diazinon - 10 lb  
Small, white, centipede-like an-                              
imals in the soil.                          Telone II - preplant  
                                   
                                            Telone C-17 - preplant 

                                            Mocap - 2 to 3 lb.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grasshoppers                                Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb            
Various species                                                     
                                            Nosema locustae - Use as     
May reach damaging levels on field          manufacturer directs         
margins during years of grasshopper         
abundance.                                  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imported cabbage worm                       Phosdrin - 0.5 lb (ICW only)
Pieris rapae                                   OR, (depending on pre-harvest
                                                    interval - see label)
                                               Phosdrin - 1 lb (ICW only)
Caterpillars are soft, velvety                
green with faint yellow stripes.            Larvin - 0.6 to 1 lb 
Adult is a white butterfly with             
black spots.                                diatect - 1 to 3 lb
                                            Monitor - 0.5 to 1 lb              

                                            Lannate - 0.45 to 0.9 lb
 
                                            Bacillus thuringiensis -     
                                              1 to 2 qt.  Add appropri-  
                                                ate spreader-sticker.    

                                            Dibrom - 1 to 2 lb           
                                                                               
                                            methoxychlor - 2 to 2.25 lb  
                                 
                                            Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb

                                            permethrin - 0.05 to 0.1 lb        

                                            Lorsban 50W - 1 lb

                                            Larvan - 0.4 to 0.8 lb

                                            Pyrellin - 1 to 2 pt
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loopers, including                          Monitor - 0.5 to 1.0 lb
Cabbage looper                                                   
Trichoplusia ni                             WARNING: If methamidophos 
                                            (Monitor) is allowed to drift 
Alfalfa looper                              onto adjacent legume or vege-   
Autographa californica                      table seed crops, it is highly 
                                            hazardous to pollinating bees. 
Larvae of both species pale                 Alternate materials should be 
green with white lines on back              used under such conditions. 
and sides. Move in looping                                    
manner. Moth gray-brown with                Lannate - 0.45 to 0.9 lb 
characteristic silvery spot on                                        
forewings.                                  Bacillus thuringiensis - 1 to 2 
                                            qt.  Add a spreader-sticker to 
NOTE:                                       enhance persistence on foliage. 

The cabbage looper and alfalfa looper       Dibrom - 2 lb                  
are not serious pests every year but                                      
are more difficult to control than          methoxychlor - 2.25 lb        
other cabbage "worms".  Start insecti-                                      
cide applications when the worms are        endosulfan - 0.75 to 1.0 lb     
still small.  Inspect the plants a day                                    
or so after each treatment for success      permethrin - 0.05 to 0.2 lb    
of control.  Examine plants often in                                      
late summer and fall for new infestations.  Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb
Be sure insecticides reach both sides of                                  
leaves.  Choice of insecticide is de-       Phosdrin - 0.5 lb    
pendent in part on nearness to harvest.                        
Phosdrin gives better control of loppers    carbaryl - 2 lb            
when temperatures are below 70 F.                                        
                                            pyrellin - 1 to 2 pt         
NOTE:     
                                            Larvin - 0.6 to 1 lb
Suitable registered wetting agents should   
be added to most of the spray solutions of  diatect - 1 to 3 lb
the mentioned insecticides. The wetting    
agent will aid in spreading and sticking 
of the sprays to the waxy leaves and 
plant surfaces.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Slugs                                       metaldehyde baits            
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thrips                                      methyl parathion - 0.3 to
Frankliniella sp.                                              1.5 lb
                                            
Adults about 1/25 inch in length. Yellow-
ish to black in color. An occasional problem
in fresh market cabbage.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wireworms                                   diazinon - 3 to 4 lb active 
Ctenicera and                               ingredient per acre.  Broadcast
Limonius spp.                               granules or emulsifiable formu-
                                            lation evenly on the soil 
Brown, jointed larvae of click              surface and incorporate into 
beetles.                                    the top 4-8 inches of soil.

                                            Other controls and fumigants 
                                            may be available.
                                            
                                            Telone II or C-17 - preplant
___________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________


DISEASE CONTROL

     Proper rotations, field selection, sanitation, spacings, fertilizer and 
irrigation practices can reduce the risk of many diseases.  Fields can be 
tested for presence of harmful nematodes.  Using seed from reputable seed 
sources reduces risk from seed born diseases.

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST DISEASE 
CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS FOR 
CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

CABBAGE -- BLACK BLIGHT (RING SPOT) IN SEED PRODUCTION

Cause: Mycosphaerella brassicicola, a fungus that attacks cabbage, 
cauliflower, brussels sprouts and broccoli.

Symptoms: Individual spots most often are black with dense fruiting bodies in 
tight concentric rings. Under severe attack, the spots coalesce and the entire 
plant may be affected and blackened. When seed stalks are attacked, the fungus 
causes distortion similar to 2,4-D symptoms.  The infectious spore stage 
matures slowly over a period of months.

Control:

1.  Locate plant beds 1 mile or more from diseased fields.

2.  Burn straw stacks and plow under diseased refuse of cabbage, turnip, and 
rutabaga seed fields immediately after harvest and before transplanting the 
new crop.

3.  Hot water seed treatment at 122oF for 30 minutes eliminates seedborne 
inoculum.

4.  Bravo and Benlate provide control of this disease when applied for downy 
mildew and white blight, respectively.

5.  Bravo may be applied to cabbage, broccoli, and brussels sprouts. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- BACTERIAL SOFT ROT

Cause: Erwinia sp., a bacteria. Entrance to the plant tissue is usually 
through wounds caused by insects, disease organisms, or mechanical means. 
Under warm, humid conditions, uninjured tissue may become infected. The 
bacteria may be spread by insects, tools, rain, clothing, or affected plant 
tissue. 

Symptoms: Small, water-soaked areas which rapidly increase in size.  The 
tissue becomes soft and mushy, and within a few days the affected plant part 
may collapse. An offensive odor is usually present.

Control:

1.  Set out plants in rows to allow for good air drainage.

2.  Use care in cultivating to keep injuries to leaves and other parts 
ofplants to a minimum.

3.  Overhead irrigation may encourage infection.  Well water contains less 
bacteria than surface water.  

4.  Clean and spray storage walls and floors with copper sulfate solution (1 
lb/5 gal water). Bactericides such as Roccal, Chlorox, and Lysol are also 
effective.

5.  In storage, use a buffering material such as straw, paper, etc., to 
prevent injury to the heads.

6.  Keep storage house dry and the temperature below 39 F.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- BLACK LEG

Cause: Phoma lingam (Leptosphaeria maculans), a fungus which is carried on the 
seed and overwinters on plant debris and on alternate host plants.

Symptoms: Pale spots on leaves, stems, and silques (pods) which later become 
ashy gray with scattered black pycnidia on the surface. Stem lesions near the 
soil line extend below the soil surface causing a black rot of the lower stem 
and roots. As plants mature they fall sideways from lack of root anchorage. 
Many plants wilt and die.

Seed crop symptoms: This disease generally does not cause reduction in seed 
yields. Occasionally cankers are observed on stem bases and spots appear on 
overwintered leaves. Symptoms on seed pods are rare and inconspicuous. Low 
levels of seed infection coupled with weather favorable for disease spread in 
eastern seedbeds has caused extremely severe losses.

Control--Seed Production Fields

1.  Plant only stock seed assayed and found to be free of P. lingam. Treat 
infected stock seed with benomyl as Benlate at 8 oz 50 WP plus thiram as 
Arasan at 8 oz 50 WP (Washington and Oregon only) or hot water treated at 50 C 
for 25 to 30 minutes. Treated stock seed should be reassayed and found free 
from infection before planting.

2.  Seedbeds should not have crucifer crops on or near them for at least 5 
years.

3.  Inspect seedbeds for obvious foliar infections.

4.  When lifted, transplants should not be dipped into water before transplan
ting.

5.  Inspect seed fields for presence of the disease.

6.  Seed samples (10,000 seeds) from each lot should be assayed for the 
presence of P. lingam.

7.  Treat infected lots with benomyl as Benlate and thiram as Arasan (see 
above) or hot water. Seed assays are available from the Washington State 
University Seed Technology Laboratory, Pullman, Washington.

Control--Crop Fields:

Use disease-free seed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- BLACK ROT

Cause: Xanthomonas campestris pv. campestris, a bacterium which overwinters in 
plant refuse and is carried internally and externally on seed.

Symptoms: When spread by water, bacteria enter water pores at the margins of 
leaves or occasionally through insect or other mechanical injuries. The tissue 
in these areas becomes yellow and the chlorosis progresses toward the center 
of the leaf. This creates a V-shaped area with the base of the V at the midrib 
of the leaf. The veins in these areas become dark brown or black, and when the 
leaf is held up to a strong light source they show up as a black net. From the 
leaf, the infection proceeds up and down the main stem causing blackening of 
the vascular tissue. The infection goes systemic at this point, and symptoms 
the same as those found from direct infection may appear anywhere on the 
plant. Unilateral stunting of some leaves occurs.

When seed is infected, the first symptoms appear on the cotyledons.  The 
cotyledons rapidly wilt and drop off usually however, the infection has 
reached the stem and proceeds upward. Development of the disease may stop in 
unfavorable weather only to begin when conditions are favorable. Optimum 
temperatures for development are 80o to 86o F. Water in the form of dew, rain, 
or sprinkler irrigation is necessary for spread.

Control:

1.  Use clean seed. Seed from west coast sources is almost always free from 
this disease.

2.  Use a 2-year rotation out of crucifers in production fields.

3.  Use a 3-year rotation on the transplant bed. This is most important since 
most infection spread occurs in the seed bed.

4.  Contaminated seed can be cleaned by hot water seed treatment of 122 F for 
30 minutes.

5.  The varieties `Defender' and `Guardian' are resistant.  Other research 
from N.Y. classifies varieties in regards to their susceptibility as follows:

                    Susceptibility to Black Rot

           Low                 Medium              High
      
          Bravo               Green Winter        Superdane
          Hinova              Superelite          Superkraut
          Zerlina             Atria               Titanic 90
          Renova              Protector           Roundup
          Stonar              Krautking           King Cole
          Little Rock         Krautpacker
                              Rodolfo
                              Bartolo
                              Polinius
                              Lennox
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



CABBAGE -- CLUB ROOT

Cause: Plasmodiophora brassicae, a fungus. This fungus can survive in the soil 
for years following an infected crop.

Symptoms: Young plants wilt in hot weather, but recover partially at night. 
Older plants are stunted, and leaves may drop off. Roots develop clubs or 
swellings up to 5 or 6 inches in diameter. The largest clubs are usually just 
below the soil level, on the larger roots.

Control:

A. The cabbage variety `Badger Shipper' offers resistance to some races of the 
disease.

B. Disease-free plants and disease-free soil:

Since young plants can be infected and not show any symptoms, e.g., swelling 
of the roots, it is important that only plants grown in soil known to be free 
of the casual fungus be planted. If possible, plant only in club-root-free 
soils, but when in doubt, it is better to treat.

C. Disease-free plants and diseased soil:

If it is not possible to use disease-free soil, the following practices and 
chemicals will aid in keeping club root under control.

1.  Lime field heavily, which discourages spore germination. Even if the 
infected soil is alkaline, e.g., has a pH 8, at least 1500 lb of hydrated lime 
must be added to the soil each time cabbage is planted.  Use long rotations to 
prevent a buildup of lime in the soil. The hydrated lime should be added to 
the soil at least 6 weeks before planting.

2.  Preplanting soil treatment with PCNB (Terraclor). PCNB does not give 
complete control of club root, but it will reduce the number of clubs and 
secondary rotting of roots so that a nearly normal sized crop may be produced.

Broadcast: For transplant or direct-seeded fields, use 40 lb actual PCNB/A, 
depending on soil type.  Disc or rototill the PCNB into the top 4 inches of 
soil.

The treatment is effective for two seasons if the soil is only rototilled and 
cultivated, not plowed.

Bands: For transplant or direct-seeded fields. Although a savings in chemical 
may be made the first year by applying it in bands previous to planting and 
cultivating it into the top 4 inches of soil, the second year benefit from 
this application of chemical is lost.

3.  Use starter solutions (use at rate of 1 cup/plant at time of planting).

a. PCNB (Terraclor) .5 to .75 percent suspension (4 lb of 75 percent WP/100 
gal water). This treatment is recommended only for commercial growers.

4.  Delay planting to avoid wet soil.

Residues: Terraclor--cabbage: Tolerance 0.1 ppm (Interim).

Row application prior to transplanting (maximum 40 lb actual PCNB/A).

Broadcast prior to planting (maximum of 40 lb actual PCNB/A).

Transplant solution--.75 pt/plant of transplant solution containing 4.5 lb 
actual PCNB/100 gal.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- DAMPING-OFF AND WIRESTEM

Cause: Several fungi including Rhizoctonia and Pythium sp. These fungi are 
common soil inhabitants. They are widespread and can be very destructive under 
cool, moist conditions.

Symptoms: Damping off results in killing of seedlings before or soon after 
they emerge from the soil. Beneath the soil a general rot is observed. 
Seedlings which emerge from the soil develop a lesion near where the tender 
stem is in contact with the soil surface, and the seedling collapses. In some 
cases, the seedling may continue to grow even though the lesion has girdled 
the stem. The lesion is quite sunken, and the stem resembles a wire, hence the 
name wirestem.  The girdled seedling eventually dies.

Control:

1.  Delay planting as long as possible to avoid cold, moist soils, which favor 
disease development.

2.  Avoid excessive irrigation. Irrigate in the morning.

3.  Grow transplanted seedlings in sterilized soil.

4.  Improve the texture of heavy soils.

5.  See Cabbage -- Treatment.

6.  When Pythium spp. is a problem, apply Ridomil 2E.

Broadcast: Apply 4 pt Ridomil 2E/A at planting in 20 to 50 gal water.

Banded: Apply 0.5 to 1 pt Ridomil 2E/13,000 linear ft of row in a 7-inch band.

Broadcast and incorporated: Apply 1 to 2 pt/A as a broadcast soil application 
in 20 to 50 gal of water and incorporate in the top 2 inches of soil. If 
plantings are made on bed, broadcast and incorporate before forming beds.  To 
minimize the development of fungi resistant to Ridomil, do not make foliar 
applications if Ridomil was used at planting (see Cabbage and Cauliflower -- 
Downey Mildew).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- DOWNY MILDEW

Cause: Peronospora parasitica, a fungus. Nearly all cultivated and weed plants 
of Cruciferae are affected by downy mildew. The several strains of the fungus, 
however, are specific to certain groupings of crops, e.g., the radish strain 
causes little damage to cabbage. The fungus overwinters in roots or old 
diseased plant parts. Spores of the fungus may be spread as contaminants on 
seeds. There is no proof that the fungus enters the seed. High humidity, fog, 
drizzling rains, and heavy dew are conducive to disease development and 
spread. Optimum conditions for development of the disease are night tempera
tures of 46  to 61 F for four or more successive nights, and day temperature 
approximately 75 F or lower. 

Symptoms: Seedlings: White mildew principally on underside of leaf with 
yellowing on upper side. Later the leaf may become papery and die.

Cabbage heads: Sunken black spots which may be minute or larger than 1 inch in 
diameter.

Lower leaves: May become severely infected.

Control:   The following practices are effective:
  
1.  Increase the ratio of phosphate to potash in the fertilizer to 2:1 or 3:1.

2.  Use one of the following spray alternatives:

     a.  Spray seeding beds with Bravo 6F 1.25 pt/A with water to cover or 
    Ridomil/Bravo 8lW at 1.5 to 2.0 lb/A.

     b.  Several formulations of fixed copper are available with labels for 
    this disease.  Fixed copper can cause phytotoxicity on some 
    varieties at high rates.

     c.  Spray maneb at 1.2 to 1.6 lb ai/A.  Do not apply more than 9.6 lb 
    ai/A/season.  Do not apply within 7 days of harvest.

     d.  Spray fosetyl-Al (Abette) at 1.6 to 4.0 lb ai/A.  Do not apply in 
    less than 15 gal water/A.  Do not apply more than 7 times a season 
    or within 3 days of harvest.

3.  Apply first spray as soon as seedlings appear and repeat three times per 
week until plants are set out in field. Spraying for mildew requires complete 
coverage of the plant. In general, high gallonage ground application has been 
more effective than air application.

Resistance is being incorporated into commercial varieties, but at present 
there are no resistant commercial varieties available.

Residues: Bravo--1.125 lb ai/A in water to cover. Tolerance 5 ppm. No time 
limitation. 

Ridomil/Bravo 8lW - do not apply within 7 days of harvest.

Warning:  Resistance to Ridomil has been confirmed in the Northwest.  To 
minimize further development of resistance, use as follows.  If Ridomil is 
used at planting (see Cabbage and Cauliflower -- Damping-Off), do not make 
foliar applications.  Do not use it as a curative spray once disease has 
developed.  Use only as a preventive spray and only in combination with 
another registered fungicide.  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- DROP, WATERY SOFT ROT, OR WHITE ROT

Cause: Sclerotinia sclerotiorum, a fungus. This disease survives in crop 
refuse and in the soil as sclerotia (hardened fungus bodies), averaging about 
the size of a pea. This fungus attacks a wide range of crops and weeds. It 
produces microscopic spores that grow first on dead organic matter (often 
spent flower petals) and then attack the plants.

Symptoms: The disease occurs for the most part above the ground level a 
cottony, white mold. As the  cabbage leaves decay, small, dark bodies appear 
in the mold. Finally the white mass is replaced by numerous hardened sclerotia 
which gradually change in color from white to black.

On seed crops, stem attacks cause severe losses. The diseased tissues eventua
lly bleach white, giving the disease its name "white blight."  Sclerotia that 
are black on the surface and white inside, associated with this bleached 
tissue, are diagnostic.

Control: (1) Rotate using nonsusceptible crops such as grass or grains.  (2) 
Permit maximum aeration between rows. (3) On seed crops (broccoli, Brussels 
sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, Chinese cabbage, collards, kale, kohlrabi, 
mustard, rutabagas, and turnips) the most effective control for this disease 
is by aerial spray application of benomyl as Benlate (Pacific Northwest only). 
Apply as a thorough-coverage spray using 2 lb in 5 to 10 gal water/A. Add a 
spreader for coverage. Make first application at first petal fall make two 
additional applications at 14-day intervals if conditions favor development of 
the disease. For seed production only, Chipco 26019 is registered in Oregon 
and Washington. Apply 2 to 4 lb/A in 20 to 100 gal of water. Use at least 10
gal/A for air applications. Apply at full bloom. Do not feed treated crop or 
graze treated area.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- LEAF SPOT

Cause: Alternaria brassicae and A. brassiciola, two fungi. These fungi survive 
from year to year on seed and cabbage leaves and roots.

Symptoms: Chlorotic yellow spots develop enlarging to circular areas coated 
with black spores. Infection ranges in size from areas barely visible to those 
more than 2 to 3 inches in diameter. On infected cabbage seed pods, violet to 
tan-colored spots develop, becoming worse in wet weather.
Control: (1) Rotate crops and use clean seed. (2) Seed not known to be clean 
may be treated in hot water at a temperature of 122 F for 25 to 30 minutes. 
Make a seed germination test following hot treatment. (3) Spray material 
listed under downy mildew will help control this disease. (4) For seed 
production only, Rovral 50 WP is registered in Washington and Oregon. Apply 2 
to 4 lb/A in 20 to 100 gal of water. Use at least 10 gal/A for air applica
tions. An appropriate spreader-sticker is recommended. Apply at full bloom, 
pod set, and prior to harvest if disease pressure is severe. Do not use 
treated crop debris or screenings for food or feed. Do not graze treated area.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- NEMATODE (Sugarbeet Cyst)

Cause:  Heterodera schachtii

Symptoms:  First field symptom indicating nematodes is the appearance of 
small, conspicuous areas where plants are stunted.  Later in the season, areas 
of nematode infestation often are marked by absence of plants and presence of 
weed patches.  In severely infested fields, areas of decline usually can be 
identified by excessive leaf wilting during hot weather.  Affected areas 
increase in size with continuous cropping of host crops.

Infected plants are much smaller than normal ones.  Frequently they have a 
dense system of secondary roots, called a hairy-root condition.  Examination 
with a hand lens usually will show numerous small, white, beadlike structures 
on roots of infected plants.  These structures are lemon-shaped and later 
become cysts containing eggs that develop into future generations of nema
todes.

Dwarfed plants that have a tendency to wilt during warm weather should be 
pulled and examined for small, white, beadlike females.  Soil intended for 
cabbage production can be examined for this pest by a simple field test:
Place a teaspoonful of soil i a glass of water, stir briefly, and allow debris 
to float to the surface.  It is then possible to see and recognize any 
brownish cysts that adhere to the sides of the glass.  Discovery of nematodes 
by this test will not predict severity of infestation but will show that the 
field has a nematode history.

Control:  

1.  Crop rotation is an effective method for reducing nematode population 
since this pest has a small host range.  In addition to sugarbeets other hosts 
are mangel-wurzel, table beet, cabbage, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, 
broccoli, rape, turnip, rutabaga, and radish.  Weed hosts are dock, knotweed, 
lambsquarters, mustard, nightshade, purslane, saltbush and red root.  Any of 
these plants that survive from year to year may act as reservoirs in maintain
ing the pests and may counteract much of the value of crop rotation.

These crops may be used in a short-term rotation; beans, sweet clover, corn, 
grains, peas, potatoes, and tomatoes.  Alfalfa is suitable for a long rotation 
period.  Length of rotation period should vary with severity of nematode 
infection.  Slight infestations may require only a 2 year program whereas 
severe infestations require a 5 to 6 year interval.

2.  Do not return tare to fields.  

3.  Soil fumigation with Telone II.  For rates of application see Soil 
Fumigation Guide Chart in the Pesticide Use for Disease Control Section.

Sampling:  Cyst nematodes are sedentary endoparasites (see Nematodes--Life 
History).  Infective second-stage juveniles, adult males (rarely), and cysts 
(the dead body of the female which contains eggs) can be obtained from the 
soil samples.  However, cyst extraction requires a special extraction proce
dure, and if a cyst count is desired it should be noted on the form that 
accompanies the sample.  During the growing season it is helpful to send roots 
as well as soil to assist the diagnosis.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- OEDEMA (Edema)

Cause: Physiological

Symptoms: This nonparasitic disease may occur on any plant part but is usually 
found on the lower surface of leaves. The first symptom is a watery blister or 
gall that can be few or numerous. The more succulent tissue appears to be more 
susceptible. Blisters or galls will turn a dark brown, yellow, or rust color 
and give the appearance of a rust or bacterial infection.

The disorder is more prominent when ambient temperatures are lower than soil 
temperatures, soil moisture is high, and relative humidity is high. Low 
transpiration rates with an increase in water absorption increase cell 
pressure, erupting epidermal cells and allowing the inner cells to enlarge and 
protrude.  This protrusion of the inner cells causes the cells to die and 
discolor (yellow, brown, or rust), giving the impression that a parasitic 
organism is involved.  Any mechanical injury to epidermal cells causes a 
similar effect. The most common causes of oedema in the Pacific Northwest are 
insect feeding injury (particularly aphids), injury from windblown soil 
particles, and damage from chemical applications.

Control:

1.  Control insects, particularly aphids.

2.  When cabbages are small, control windblown soil particles by sprinkler 
irrigation during periods of high wind.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- PHYTOPHTHORA ROOT ROT

Cause: Phytophthora megasperma is a fungus that serves as resistant spores  in 
the soil and infects its hosts with swimming zoospores under wet conditions.

Symptoms: Above ground portions of the plant wilt. When the root systems are 
examined, lateral roots are absent or entirely decayed.  The top roots are 
entirely decayed or show large, dark lesions along their entire length. 
Symptomatic plants are found in wet areas of the field.


Control:

1. Plant only on well-drained soil that has a minimum of low areas where water 
can accumulate.

2. Avoid excessive irrigation.

3. Treat seedbed with Ridomil 2E as a surface broadcast of 4 pt/A in 20 to 50 
gal/A, or as a 7-inch band application of 2 pt/13,000 linear ft row in 20 to 
50 gal/A, or as broadcast incorporated to 2 inches at 4 to 8 pt/A in 20 to 50 
gal/A. If plantings are made on beds, broadcast and incorporate prior to 
bedding.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- SEED TREATMENT

Aids in controlling black rot, Alternaria leaf spot, and damping off.

Apply captan or thiram according to label directions. 

Hot water seed treatment -- 122 degrees F for 30 minutes.

Where Pythium is a problem, Anchor flowable at 1.5 fl oz/cwt seed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CABBAGE -- TIP BURN

Cause: Physiological disorder. All cabbage varieties grown in Oregon are 
susceptible to some degree to tip burn. Some difference between varieties is 
recognized. This disorder is aggravated by high fertility and high tempera
tures. Some research indicates that it may be influenced by an imbalance of 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  Water stress followed by a period of 
excessive growth and low humidity is conducive to development of tip burn. 
These conditions influence calcium uptake and distribution in the cabbage 
head.  Amount and frequency of irrigation appear to influence incidence of tip 
burn.

Symptoms: A marginal necrosis of internal leaves. The symptoms can extend from 
a few, small, brown spots on the edges of the interior leaves to large areas 
of the leaf margin turning brown and eventually decaying. External symptoms 
are usually absent.

Control: Research in Wisconsin has attributed the disorder to a deficiency of 
calcium in the inner leaves research in New York has implicated imbalances of 
nitrogen and potash. Other research indicates that high temperatures following 
periods of excessive growth can cause tip burn. No effective controls are 
known. Holding nitrogen levels to the lowest level possible commensurate with 
adequate yields is helpful. Nitrogen rates should not exceed 100 lb/A. The 
form of nitrogen may be important with ammonium forms less desirable than 
nitrate forms. Do not apply excessive rates of potash or other chemicals that 
would compete with calcium uptake. Soil samples should show adequate base 
saturation and adequate levels of calcium. Use adequate irrigation to avoid 
water stress conditions which would restrict calcium movement to inner leaves. 
Harvest when the cabbage is at the optimum maturity to avoid allowing the 
cabbage to become excessively firm.

Research from Cornell University describes variety susceptibility to tip burn.

Slightly susceptible: `Superdane', `Flacon', `Hinova', `Atria', `Rudolfo', 
`Superkraut', `Krautpaker'.

More susceptible: `Titanic 90', `Roundup', `Bravo', `Krautking', `Little 
Rock'.

Quite susceptible:  `King Cole', `Quisto', `Superette'.

Very susceptible:  `Green Boy', `Rio Verde', `Condor', `Izalco'.
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________


         ---------------------------------------------------
         ---------------------------------------------------        
         This  information was adapted  by the Oregon  State 
         University   Extension  Service  from  Oregon   and 
         Pacific  NW publications as well as other vegetable 
         production   guidelines  from  public  institutions 
         in  the  U.S.  and Canada.   These  guidelines  are 
         intended  as a general guide for Oregon  commercial 
         vegetable producers.  Address comments or questions 
         to  your  County  Extension  Agent  or  Dr.  N.  S. 
         Mansour,  Department of Horticulture,  Oregon State 
         University, Corvallis, OR 9733l. 
         --------------------------------------------------- 
         ---------------------------------------------------   


From dragon@csulb.edu Sun Mar 12 22:09:28 EST 1995
Article: 57927 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!csulb.edu!beach.csulb.edu!dragon
From: Brian Lo <dragon@csulb.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FAQ: Turnips
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:43:23 -0800
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                                   TURNIPS 
                         Brassica rapa (Rapifera Group)

VARIETIES (approximately 60 days for roots, 30 days for greens)

      Purple Top White Globe;  hybrids for trial:  Royal Globe II Hybrid,
Royal Crown;  all white hybrids for trial:  Tokyo Cross, White Lady.  Club
root resistant, for trial:  York.

      Greens:  Shogoin, Seven Top, Topper, All Top  (see seperate file on
turnip greens). 

SEED COMPANIES

Abbott & Cobb Inc. POB F307, Feasterville, PA 19047
Asgrow Seed Company, POB 5038, Salinas CA 93915
Elsoms Seeds Ltd. Spalding, Lincolnshire, England PE11 1QG
Ferry-Morse Seed Co. POB 4938, 555 Codoni Ave. Modesto, CA 95352
Harris Moran Seed Co. 3670 Buffalo Rd. Rochester, NY 14624
Johnny's Selected Seeds, Foss Hill Rd. Albion, ME 04910
La Marche Seeds International, POB 190, Dixon, CA 95620
Nickerson-Zwaan Seed Co. POB 1787, Gilroy, CA 95021
Northrup King Co. Vegetable Seed Group, POB 1827, Gilroy, CA 95021
Royal Sluis Inc. 1293 Harkins Rd. Salinas, CA 93901
Sakata Seed America Inc. Morgan Hill, CA
Sluis & Groot of America Inc. 124 Griffin Street, Salinas, CA 93901
Stokes Seeds Inc. POB 548, Buffalo, NY 14240
W. Osborne Seed Co. Int'l. 1679 Highway 99 South, Mount Vernon, WA 98273 
Zenner Bros. Seed Co., Inc.  1311 S.E. Gideon St. Portland, OR 97202

SOIL
     
      Use deep loam or sandy loam soil types that have good drainage.  It is
desirable to have a good amount of organic matter in the soil as well.

SEED AND SEED TREATMENT

      Turnip seed numbers approximately 192,000 per pound.  Use hot-water and
fungicide treated seed to protect against several serious seed borne diseases. 
Hot water seed treatments are very specific (122 F exactly, for 25 to 30
minutes; the wet seed then quickly cooled and dried).  The seed treatments are
best done by the seed company, and can usually be provided upon request.

PLANTING AND SPACINGS

      For summer harvest plant as early in the spring as possible.  For later
harvests plant up to the 7th of June.  Seed 1 to 2 lbs seed/acre at a depth of
1/2 to l in.   Space rows 1-3 ft. apart and plants within the row 2-6 inches
apart.  Turnip seed is easy to precision plant and germinates readily.  No
pelleting is necessary with precision planters.  When these planters are used,
adjust the seeding rate considering plant stand desired, seed count per pound
and germination percentage.  

FERTILIZER

      A soil test is the most accurate guide to fertilizer requirements.  The
following recommendations are general guidelines.  

      Manure - If manure is available, apply the year before and not in the
year of seeding.

      At time of seeding, band 2 in. to the side of the seed, at a depth of 2
inches below the seed, the following:

      Nitrogen: 50-75 (N) lb./acre 
      Phosphate: 100-150 (P2 O5) lb./acre 
      Potash: 80-150 (K2 O) lb./acre
      Boron:  Broadcast and disc in 2-4 lb./acre of boron prior to planting. 
If additional boron is required, use Solubor or Borospray at l/2 to l lb./acre
when turnips are l in. in diameter.

IRRIGATION

      Water uniformly for best shape and quality.  Turnips may require from 8-
12 inches of water depending on planting date, seasonal variation and variety.

      Soil type does not affect the amount of total water needed, but does
dictate frequency of water application.  Lighter soils need more frequent
water applications, but less water applied per application.         

HARVESTING, HANDLING, AND STORAGE

      Turnip yields are approximately 300 cwt./acre.  Handle roots with care
during harvest to reduce injury and rots during storage.  Store only healthy
roots as indicated below.

      STORAGE (quoted form USDA Ag. Handbook # 66):

      Store turnips at 32 F and 95% relative humidity.  Topped turnips require
storage conditions similar to those for topped carrots.  Turnips in good
condition can be expected to keep 4 to 5 months at 32 F and high relative
humidity.  At higher temperatures (40 F and above) decay will develop much
more rapidly than at 32 f.  Injured or bruised turnips should not be stored. 
Turnips should be stored in slatted crates or bins, and good air circulation
around containers should be provided.

      Packaging turnips in perforated plastic bags helps keep the humidity
high around the roots during marketing and reduces shriveling.

      Dipping turnips in hot melted paraffin was gives a glossy appearance and
is of some value in reducing moisture loss during handling.  However, waxing
is primarily to aid in marketing and is not recommended before long-term
storage.


PACKAGING

      Topped turnips are commonly packaged in 25 lb. film bags; 50 lb. film
and mesh bags; or 24 pound cartons holding 24 film bags, 1 pound each.

                            PEST CONTROL FOR TURNIPS

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW, TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST PEST
CONTROL HANDBOOKS, ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY, AND ARE REVISED ONLY ANNUALLY. 
BECAUSE OF CONSTANTLY CHANGING LABELS, LAWS, AND REGULATIONS, OREGON STATE
UNIVERSITY CAN ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF USE OF CHEMICALS
SUGGESTED HERE.  IN ALL CASES, READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS AND PRECAUTION-
ARY STATEMENTS ON THE SPECIFIC PESTICIDE PRODUCT LABEL.

                          USE PESTICIDES SAFELY!

Wear protective clothing and safety devices as recommended on the label.  
Bathe or shower after each use.

Read the pesticide label--even if you've used the pesticide before.  Follow
closely the instructions on the label (and any other directions you have).

Be cautious when you apply pesticides.  Know your legal responsibility as a
pesticide applicator.  You may be liable for injury or damage resulting from
pesticide use.


WEED CONTROL

     Cultivate as often as necessary when weeds are small.  Proper cultiva-
tion, field selection and rotations can reduce or eliminate the need for
chemical weed control.  

     THE WEED TREATMENTS LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST
WEED CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS
FOR CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES, AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

WEED MANAGEMENT GENERAL STRATEGY

Weed suppression in crucifers begins by rotating crops that involve different
weed control practices or herbicides to disrupt weed life cycles.  Row
spacings and plant densities vary to achieve head size depending on the market
and to suppress weeds.  Early season weed control comprises application of an  
herbicide and/or cultivation(s).
______________________________________________________________________________

STALE SEEDBEDS FOR VEGETABLE PRODUCTION

Stale seedbeds are sometimes used for vegetable production when other selec-
tive weed control practices are limited or unavailable.  The concept depends
on controlling the first flush of emerged weeds before planting or emergence
of the crop followed by minimal soil disturbance which reduces subsequent weed
flushes during establishment of the crop.  Following establishment, other weed
control practices including cultivation or use of other herbicides can be
used.

1.  Prepare a seedbed, preferably 2 to 3 weeks before planting to achieve 
    maximum weed seed germination near the soil surface.  Soil temperatures 
    and moisture must be reasonable or results will be erratic.

2.  Plant the crop with minimum soil disturbance.  Otherwise, new weed seed 
    will be exposed to favorable germinating conditions.

3.  Just before or after planting but before crop emergence, treat the 
    field by flaming or with herbicide to kill all germinated or exposed 
    weeds.

Weed Treatment           Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flaming                                      

      Use liquid propane or similar fuel-burning equipment to quickly sear the
      weeds, but not consume them with flame. 
______________________________________________________________________________

PREEMERGENCE

DCPA                                            4.5 to 9 lb ai/A
  Dacthal

      Performs erratically west of Cascades.  Elsewhere, apply immediately
      after seeding or transplanting.  Results can be improved if rainfall or
      overhead irrigation occurs immediately after application.  Consult label
      for planting sensitive crops within 8 months. (Inhibits mitosis).
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________


INSECT CONTROL

     Proper rotations and field selection can minimize problems with insects. 

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST INSECT
CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS ARE
CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

Insect and Description                  Control, Active Ingredient Per Acre
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aphids including                            malathion - 2 lb      
Cabbage aphid                                  
 Brevicoryne brassicae                      diazinon - 0.5 lb     
Turnip aphid                                                      
 Hyadaphis pseudobrassicae                  Phosdrin - 0.25 lb    
                                                                  
Both species closely resemble               Metasystox-R - 0.5 lb
each other. Gray, mealy plant                                     
lice form colonies.                         dimethoate - 0.25 lb 
                                                                  
                                            Dibrom - 1 to 1.5 lb       

                                            Pyrellin - 1 to 2 pt
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flea beetles, including                     diazinon - 0.5 lb     
Phyllotreta cruciferae                                            
                                            methoxychlor - 2.25 lb  
Small, shiny, steel-blue jump-                                    
ing beetle. Frequently attacks              carbaryl - 1 lb
and destroys seedlings.                                           
                                            Pyrellin - 1 to 2 pt       
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cabbage maggot                              Lorsban 4E - 0.05 to 0.86 lb 
Delia brassicae                             ai/1000 row ft.
                                           
White legless larvae feed on                Lorsban 15G - 0.69 to 1.38 lb 
roots.                                      ai/1000 row ft.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diamondback moth                            diazinon - 0.5 lb   
Plutella maculipennis                                                      
                                            methoxychlor - 1 lb            
Gray or brown moth with white               
margins on forewing. When                   Bacillus thuringiensis - 1 to 2 qt
folded, white margins form dia-             Apply with appropriate spreader-
mond. Larvae are pale yellow-               sticker.
ish-green in color with finely              
scattered erect black hairs.                permethrin - 0.05 to 0.1 lb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wireworms                                   Telone II or C-17 - preplant
               
Brown, jointed larvae of click              diazinon 14G - 3 to 4 lb
beetles.  Chew holes in edible roots.
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________


















DISEASE CONTROL

     Proper rotations, field selection, sanitation, spacings, fertilizer and
irrigation practices can reduce the risk of many diseases.  Fields can be
tested for presence of harmful nematodes.  Using seed from reputable seed
sources reduces risk from seed born diseases.

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST DISEASE
CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS FOR
CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

TURNIP - BORON DEFICIENCY

Cause: Deficiency of boron in the soil and subsequent deficiency in the turnip
plant. All vegetables require boron for growth but vary considerably in the
amount required.

Symptoms:

Leaves - May or may not show abnormalities. Leaves may turn reddish in color.
If deficiency is severe, both roots and leaves may be stunted. The leaves may
be twisted and curled and finally die.

Roots - Glassiness or water core of the root flesh followed by internal gray,
punky flecks or spots that later change to brown or black areas.

Control: Since the amount needed to correct boron deficiency varies so widely
in different areas, and since boron if used in excessive amounts can act as a
soil sterilant, check with your county extension agent or processor field pe-
rson for local recommendations.  However, where boron deficiency has been a
problem, particularly in alkaline soils, one or two foliar applications of
soluble boron are recommended. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TURNIP - BLACK ROOT ROT

Cause: Aphanomyces raphani and Rhizoctonia solani, fungi.  The organisms over-
winter in the soil and on diseased plant residue in the soil.

Symptoms:  Aphanomyces raphani invades the fine rootlets of the young seed-
lings and develops resting spores in large numbers within the roots. On the
main taproot dark surface lesions develop which turn grayish with age. These
enlarge into grayish-black discolored areas of irregular size and shape just
beneath the root surface. The main root may be girdled and growth of the plant
interrupted until new roots are formed above the girdle. Systemic infection
occurs occasionally, resulting in darkened vascular tissue within a normal
appearing root.

Control:

1. Where possible, avoid planting any of the crucifers on the same land for 3
or more years.

2. Growers have obtained good control using fumigants containing a combination
of chloropicrin and methyl bromide sealed with plastic tarp.

Residues: Use 82.5 to 115.5 lb actual chloropicrin plus 167.5 to 234.5 lb
actual methyl bromide/A with a plastic seal.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TURNIP - CLUB ROOT

Cause: Plasmodiophora brassicae; this organism survives indefinitely in
infested soil.

Symptoms: Injured diseased plants are chlorotic, later turning a yellowish
color, and are slow in growth and development. They often partially wilt
during warm days. Beneath the fleshy turnip root, enlarged clublike growths
develop. These ultimately become infected with secondary bacteria, rot, and
break down.

Control:

1. The European rutabaga variety, `Marian' is tolerant to club root as is the
turnip variety `York'.

2. High applications of lime have been used on infested soil. This material
apparently retards the development of the causal fungus.  See Cabbage--Club
Root for lime rates.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TURNIP - POWDERY MILDEW

Cause: Erysiphe polygoni, a fungus. This organism is perpetuated from year to
year on turnip and rutabaga refuse and other hosts including weeds.

Symptoms: A powdery, whitish-gray coloring consisting of the fungus and fungus
spores of the mildew develops on infected leaves. In the advanced stages, the
leaves are distorted, twisted, and retarded in growth. They ultimately turn
yellow and die.

Control: Sulfur dust or wettable sulfur sprays (6 lb in 100 gal water) are the
best fungicidal controls.

Residues: Sulfur-no time limitations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TURNIP - SEED TREATMENT

Aids in control of black rot, Alternaria leaf spot, and black leg.

Thiram - Follow product directions.

Captan - Follow product directions. 

When Pythium is a problem, use Anchor flowable at 1.5 fl oz/cwt seed or
Ridomil at 4 to 8 pt/A either incorporated preplant or as a
postplant/preemergence application.  See label for further information.
Note: Where black leg is a problem, soak seed in hot water, 122 F for 25
minutes. Dry. Just before planting, use treatments listed above.
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________




         ---------------------------------------------------
         --------------------------------------------------- 
         This  information was prepared by the Oregon  State 
         University   Extension  Service  from  Oregon   and 
         Pacific NW publications as well as other  vegetable 
         production   guidelines  from  public  institutions 
         in  the  U.S.  and  Canada.  These  guidelines  are 
         intended  as a general guide for Oregon  commercial 
         vegetable producers.  Address comments or questions 
         to  your  County  Extension  Agent  or  Dr.  N.  S. 
         Mansour,  Department of Horticulture,  Oregon State 
         University, Corvallis, OR 9733l. 
         --------------------------------------------------- 


From dragon@csulb.edu Sun Mar 12 22:09:35 EST 1995
Article: 57928 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!csulb.edu!beach.csulb.edu!dragon
From: Brian Lo <dragon@csulb.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FAQ: Herbs
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:43:51 -0800
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
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                                   Herbs

      Herb production may be for culinary purposes (food flavoring), for
scents and fragrances (potpourris), for medicinal uses or others (dyes, dried
floral arrangements etc).  Herb producers often grow for all these markets,
and some herbs may be used for all these purposes.

      Some of the most popular culinary herbs grown commercially and by home
gardeners and hobbyists are:  Basil, cilantro (coriander), chervil, dill,
oregano, mint, parsley, rosemary, sage, tarragon and thyme. 

      Information on herbs may be obtained from library references, seed
catalogues, special garden books and some public bulletins.  Because of the
highly special nature of herb production, public bulletins are minimal and the
information contained in them is very general.  For these reasons, this
document will only give a limited amount of general information on culinary
herbs or those that may be used for culinary and other uses.  Medicinal herbs
are so specialized and often controversial that mention of their use will be
ancillary, and only if the herb is also used for culinary purposes.

      Herbs most commonly grown in the Pacific Northwest are mostly adapted to
sunny or occasionally mostly sunny, warm locations.  Those listed are general-
ly adapted to a wide range of soil types.  Herbs need minimal irrigation,
particularly as they mature and their aromatic and flavor compounds are
developing.  

      Fertilizer requirements are basic, usually being limited to N, P, and K. 
In some cases lime is needed to maintain soil pH near neutral, but most are
adapted to a wide range of soil pH. (5.5-7.5).  Nitrogen is usually applied at
75-150 lbs./acre depending on the harvested product (leaves or seeds).  Timing
of nitrogen applications is dependent on whether the species is annual,
biennial or perennial.  Phosphorous is applied at 50-200 lbs./acre and
potassium at 0-150 lbs./acre depending on the above-mentioned characteristics
of the crop and soil test.

      Few pesticides are registered for use in herb production.  In some cases
special restrictions apply to the use of pesticides in products that will be
concentrated (distilled or processed in certain ways.

      Harvest timing and equipment are also specific to the herbs being
produced.  Often, considerable hand labor is required in production and
harvest operations, particularly when the marketable leafy portions of some
must be separated from stems, or where only the floral parts are required. 
Small motorized clippers are often used as harvester aids.  Sometimes, when
seeds are the marketable product, combines, often specially adapted, are used. 
Where the distilled oil is the marketable product, there are those who provide
custom distillation using portable or stationary stills.

      The harvested product often requires immediate special handling such as
drying, separation of leaves or seed, and temporary packaging storage to best
preserve its color, aroma, flavor, the integrity of its appearance and
sanitary condition.  

      The following is a tabular listing of some of the herbs that may be
produced in the Pacific Northwest, a brief description, their taxonomic
classification, common synonyms, general uses, and production considerations. 

      Five characteristics or cultural practices considerations are coded and
separated by backslash (/).  The codes are represented as follows:

   Life cycle: annual (a)/ biennial (b)/ perennial (p).
   Established by: Seed (s)/ divisions (d)/ cuttings (c)/ or transplants (t).
   Planting time: Spring (sp)/ after frost danger (af)/ fall (fa).
   Plant size: as listed next.
   Preferred site: Full sun (fs)/ part shade (ps)/ also a potted plant (pot).

      Uses are represented by the column headings:

   Flavorings (FLA), tea (TEA), fragrances (FRA), ornamental (ORN) and folk
medicine (MED):

NAME/SYNONYMS Latin name                                    USES
      (cycle/establishment/time/size/location)  FLA   TEA   FRA   ORN   MED

Angelica  Angelica spp.  
      an herbacious aromatic herb.
      about 50 spp.  Sometimes planted for 
      bold ornamental effects.

   Angelica Angelica archangelica                  
      (b/s/fa/6-7'/ps, fs)                       x           x     x     x

Anise Pipinella spp.  Herbacious perennials
      and sometimes annuals numbering about
      75 species of which only anise is cul-
      tivated. 

   Anise Pimpinella anisum 
      (a/s/sp/1.5'/ms, fs)                       x           x           x

   Anise-hyssop/anise mint, Korean mint
      Agastache foeniculum
      (p/s/sp,fa/3-4'/fs)                        x     x     x     x     x

Balm (see lemon balm)






NAME/SYNONYMS Latin name                                    USES
      (cycle/establishment/time/size/location)* FLA   TEA   FRA   ORN   MED

Basil Ocimum spp.  About 60, little-known
      species of which only basil is im-
      portant.  More than a dozen types are
      grown for seasoning and their pleasing
      fragrance. Only the mored common ones 
      are listed.  Frost sensitive.

   Basil, bush O. bascilicum                    
      (a/s/sp-af/1'/fs)                          x                 x

   Basil, cinnamon O. basilicum      
      (a/s/sp-af/2'/fs)                          x           x     x

   Basil, Genovese/sweet Italian O. basilicum
      (a/s/sp-af/2'/fs)                          x           x     x

   Basil, purple ruffles O. basilicum      
      (a/s/sp-af/1.5'/fs)                              x                 x

   Basil, licorice O. basilicum                       
      (a/s/sp-af/2'/fs)                                x                 x

   Basil, sweet  Ocimum basilicum (main basil used)
      (a/s/sp-af/2'/fs)                          x           x     x

   Basil, lemon O. basilicum citrodorum    
      (Sweet Dani - new, true breeding variety
      from Purdue University New Crops Center)
      (a/s/sp-af/2'/fs)                          x     x     x     x

   Basil, dark opal O. basilicum purpurescence
      (a/s/sp-af/1'/fs)                          x           x     x

   Basil, sacred O. basilicum sanctum      
      (a/s/sp-af/2'/fs)                                x     x     x     x

   Basil, spicy globe O. basilicum minimum       
      (a/s/sp-af/6"/fs, pot)                     x           x     x

Bee Balm (see Bergamot)

Bergamot/beebalm  Monarda didyma           
      (p/d,s/sp/2'-4'/fs,ps)                           x           x     x

Borage Borago officinalis
      (a/s,t/sp-af/2'/fs)                        x                 x     x


NAME/SYNONYMS Latin name                                    USES
      (cycle/establishment/time/size/location)  FLA   TEA   FRA   ORN   MED

Burnet salad  Sanguisobia minor
      (p/s/sp/1'/fs)                             x                 x

Calamintha (see Savory)

Calendula, pot marigold Calendula officinalis    
      both orange and yellow types available.
      (a/s/sp/1'-2'/fs)                          x                 x     x

Caraway  Carum carvi
      (a,b/s/sp,fa/2'-3'/fs)                     x                       x

Catnip Nepeta cataria
      (p/s,t/sp/2'-5'/fs)                        x     x     x     x     x

Chamomile Matricaria recutita an important
      medicinal plant.

   Chamomile/German chamomile Matricaria recutita
      (a/s,d/sp/2'-3'/fs)                              x     x     x     x

   Chamomile/Roman chamomile Chamaemelum nobile 
      (p/s,d/sp,fa/1'/fs)                              x     x     x     x

Chervil Anthriscus cerefolium
      (a/s/sp/1'-2'/ps,fs) bolts easily          x           x     x     x

Chives Allium schoenoprasum
      (p/s,d/sp/1'/fs,pot)                       x                 x

Chives/Chinese garlic/garlic chives
      Allium tuberosum (p/s,d/sp,fa/1'/fs,pot)   x                       x

Citronella (see lemongrass)

Cilantro Coriandrum sativum (the Spanish name 
      for coriander, grown for the fresh leaves);
      bolts at high temperatures. Use bolting
      resistant varieties, or grow during cool
      weather.
      (a/s/sp,af/1'-2'/fs,ps,pot)                x           x           x

Coriander Coriandrum sativum (same as cilantro 
      but grown for its seed) 
      (a/s/sp/3'/fs)                             x           x           x

Cress, curly, garden, pepper-grass Lepidium sativum
       (b/s/sp/6"/fs,pot)                        x

NAME/SYNONYMS Latin name                                    USES
      (cycle/establishment/time/size/location)  FLA   TEA   FRA   ORN   MED

Cress, water Nasturtium officinale
      (p/s/sp/6"/fs)                             x

Cress, winter/upland, Barbarea vulgaris 
      (b,s/sp,6"/fs,pot)                         x

Cumin Cuminum cyminum
      (a/s/sp/1'-2'/fs) like coriander           x                       x

Dill Anethum graveolens
      (a/s/sp/2'-3'/fs)                          x           x           x

Fennel, Florence Foeniculum vulgare dulce 
      (perennial, but grown as an annual) Grown 
      for its bulb.  Zefa fino (Royal Sluis) 
      best root type evaluated, and resistance 
      to bolting (Indiana).  Days from seeding 
      to harvest range from 100 to 120. 
      (p,a/s/sp/3'-4'/fs)                        x           x           x

Fenugreek Trigonella foenum-graecum                                           
      (a/s/sp/1'-3'/fs)                          x           x           x

Geranium, scented Pelargonium spp. Warm areas.
      Several forms and hybrids include:  Rose-
      scented P. capitatum, nutmeg P. fragrans,
      apple P. odoratissimum, lemon P. crispum,
      pine-scented P. denticulatum, mint P. 
      tomentosum and others!
      (p/c/sp/1'-3'/fs,pot)                      x           x     x     x

Horehound, white Marrubium vulgare
      (p/s/sp/2'-3'/fs)                          x     x     x           x


Hyssop, blue Hyssopus officinalis
      (p/s,c,d/sp/2'-3'/fs)                      x     x           x     x

Lavender, true Lavandula vera, and more than 28 
      other species. Two main species, Lavandula 
      latifolia (spike, sweet,  lavender) and 
      L. angustifolia (English/French lavender)
      and their hybrids (some sterile) are used
      in commerce.
      (p/c,s/sp/2'-3'/fs)                        x     x     x     x     x




NAME/SYNONYMS Latin name                                    USES
      (cycle/establishment/time/size/location)  FLA   TEA   FRA   ORN   MED

Lemongrass/citronella Cymbopogon sp., primarily
      East Indian Cymbopogon flexusus, and West
      Indian Cymbopogon citratus 

Lemongrass
      (p/d/sp/3'/fs,pot) not winter-hardy        x     x     x           x

Lemon Balm Melissa officinalis
      (p/s,c,d/sp/1 1/2'-2'/fs)                  x     x     x     x     x

Lemon verbena Aloysia triphylla
      (p/c/sp/1'-2'/fs)                          x     x     x     x     x

Licorice Glycyrrhiza glabra
      (p/c,d,/3'-5'/fs)                          x                       x

Lovage Levisticum officinale
      (p/s,d/sp/3'-4'/fs,ps)                     x                       x

Marjoram, sweet Origanum majorana (see also 
      Oregano)
      (p/s,t/sp/1'-2'/fs)                        x           x     x     x

Mint Mentha sp.
   Japanese mint M. arvensis var. piperescens    x     x     x     x     x
   Peppermint M.x M. piperita var. vulgaris      x     x     x     x     x
       or M. x M. piperita var. officinalis      x     x     x     x     x
   Bergamot mint M.x M. piperita var. citrata    x     x     x     x     x
   Pennyroyal, European M. pulegium              x           x           x
       or American Hedeoma pulegioides           x           x           x
   Corsican mint M. requienii                    x     x     x     x     x
   Spearmint M. spicata                          x     x     x     x     x
   Apple mint M. suaveolens                      x     x     x     x     x
   Pineapple mint M. suaveolens var. variegata   x     x     x     x     x
      (p/s,c,d/sp,fa/1'-2'/fs,pot)

Mustard, condiment Brassica sp. 
   black B. nigra                                x                       x
   brown B. juncea                               x                       x
   white B. alba                                 x                       x
   yellow mustard B. hirta                       x                       x
      (a,b/s/sp/2'-5'/fs)                        x                       x

Nasturtium Tropaeolum majus
      (p,a/s/sp/1'-2'/fs, pot)                   x                 x




NAME/SYNONYMS Latin name                                    USES
      (cycle/establishment/time/size/location)  FLA   TEA   FRA   ORN   MED

Oregano is of primarily two unrelated genera,
      Origanum and Lippia.  European oregano is
      also call wild marjoram, winter marjoram, 
      oregano and organy, and is Origanum 
      vulgare.  Greek oregano, also called winter 
      sweet marjoram, or pot marjoram is 
      Origanum heracleoticum (formaly O. hirtum).
      Mexican oregano, also called Mexican sage, 
      origan, oregamon, wild marjoram, Mexican 
      marjoram or Mexican wild sage is Lippia 
      graveolens.

   Oregano, European Origanum vulgare
      (a/s/sp/1'-2'/fs,pot)                      x                 x     x

   Oregano, Greek Origanum heracleoticum 
      (p/c/sp/1'-2'/fs,pot)                      x                 x     x

   Oregano, Mexican Lippia graveolens (not in the 
      Labiatae family)
      (a/s/sp/1'-2'/fs,pot)                      x                 x     x

Parsley, curly and Italian Petroselinum hortense
      (b/s,t/sp/12"-18"/fs)                      x                 x     x

Pennyroyal (see "mint" above)

Poppy Papaver somniferum seed and opium poppy; 
      P. orientale morphine-free medicinal poppy.
      (a/s/sp/1'-3'/fs)                          x                 x     x

Rosemary Rosmarinus officinalis
      (p/c,d,s,t/sp/2'-4'/fs,pot)                x           x     x     x

Saffron Crocus sativus
      (p/d/sp/12"-18"/fs,ps)                     x                 x

Sage Salvia officinales, several types including 
      dwarf, mammoth, purple, golden, and tricolor.  
      Others are: Pineapple S. elegans, Mexican 
      S. leucantha, scarlet S. splendens, and 
      Clary S. sclarea (a biennial).
      (p/d,c,s,t/sp/1'-3'/fs)                    x                 x     x





NAME/SYNONYMS Latin name                                    USES
      (cycle/establishment/time/size/location)  FLA   TEA   FRA   ORN   MED

Savory Satureja sp.  About 180 species. Aromatic 
      herbs and shrubs, border or pot-herb plants.  
      Warm regions. Two main types: Summer savory, 
      Satureja hortensis an annual and Winter or 
      creeping winter savory Satureja montana a 
      perennial.  An evergreen perennial used 
      mainly for tea is Satureja douglasii. 
      (a,p/s,c,t/sp/12"-18"/fs,pot)              x     x                 x

Sesame Sesamum indicum. (for warm areas only)
      (a/s/sp/1'-3'/fs)                          x                       x

Spearmint (see "mint" above)

Tarragone, French Artemisia dracunculus var. sativa
      Not winter-hardy.  The related Russian
      tarragon is more winter-hardy, but of 
      inferior quality.
      (p/c/sp,fa/1'-2'/fs,pot)                   x

Thyme, common, English, French, garden 
      Thymus vulgaris. Over 300 species
      and their hybrids such as lemon thyme 
      T. x citriodorus.
      (p/s,t/sp/2"-12"/fs,ps)                    x           x     x     x

   thyme, creeping T. serpyllum
      (p/s,t/sp/2"-4/fs)                                     x     x 

Valerian, garden heliotrope Valeriana officinalis
      (p/c,d,s,t/fa/3'-4'/fs)                    x     x           x     x

Wintergreen Gaultheria procumbens
      (p/c,d,s/sp/4"-6"/ps,pot)                  x                       x

Woodruff, sweet Galium odoratum
      (p/t/6"-12"/ps)                            x     x     x     x     x


HERBS BY MAIL

Seed and/or plants of the above-mentioned herbs are available from one or more
of the companies listed:

Abundant Life Seed Foundation, Box 772, Port Townsend, WA 98368
W. Atlee Burpee Co. 300 Park Avenue, Warminster, PA 18974
Comstock, Ferre & Co. P O Box 125, 263 Main Street, Wethersfield, CT 06109
Gurney Seed & Nursery Co. 1448 Page Street, Yankton, SD 57079
Johnny's Selected Seeds, Albion, ME 04910
J. W. Jung Seed Co. 335 S. High Street, Box H81, Randolph, WI 53956
Nichols Garden Nursery, 1190 North Pacific Highway, Albany, OR 97321
George W. Park Seed Co. P O Box 31, 398 Cokesbury Rd. Greenwood, SC 29647
Redwood City Seed Co. P O Box 361, Redwood City, CA 94064
Taylor's Herb Gardens.  1535 Lone Oak Road, Vista, CA 92084. 619/727-3485
Thompson & Moran Inc. P O Box 100, Farmingdale, NJ 07727

                         PEST CONTROL FOR HERBS

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW, TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST PEST
CONTROL HANDBOOKS, ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY, AND ARE REVISED ONLY ANNUALLY. 
BECAUSE OF CONSTANTLY CHANGING LABELS, LAWS, AND REGULATIONS, OREGON STATE
UNIVERSITY CAN ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF USE OF CHEMICALS
SUGGESTED HERE.  IN ALL CASES, READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS AND PRECAUTION-
ARY STATEMENTS ON THE SPECIFIC PESTICIDE PRODUCT LABEL.

                          USE PESTICIDES SAFELY!

Wear protective clothing and safety devices as recommended on the label. 
Bathe or shower after each use.

Read the pesticide label--even if you've used the pesticide before.  Follow
closely the instructions on the label (and any other directions you have).

Be cautious when you apply pesticides.  Know your legal responsibility as a
pesticide applicator.  You may be liable for injury or damage resulting from
pesticide use.


WEED CONTROL

     The Pacific Northwest Weed Control Handbook has no control entries for
this crop.  

     Cultivate as often as necessary when weeds are small.  Proper culti-
vation, field selection and rotations can reduce or eliminate the need for
chemical weed control.  


INSECT CONTROL

     The Pacific Northwest Insect Control Handbook has no control entries for
this crop.  

     Proper rotations and field selection can minimize problems with insects.


DISEASE CONTROL

     The Pacific Northwest Disease Control Handbook has no control entries for
this crop.  

     Proper rotations, field selection, sanitation, spacings, fertilizer and
irrigation practices can reduce the risk of many diseases.  Fields can be
tested for presence of harmful nematodes.  Using seed from reputable sources
reduces risk from "seed born" diseases.






         ---------------------------------------------------
         --------------------------------------------------- 
         This  information was prepared by the Oregon  State 
         University   Extension  Service  from  Oregon   and 
         Pacific  NW publications as well as other vegetable 
         production guidelines  from public institutions  in
         the U.S. and Canada.  These guidelines are intended
         as a general guide for Oregon  commercial vegetable
         producers.  Address  comments or questions  to your
         County  Extension   Agent  or  Dr.  N.  S. Mansour,
         Department of Horticulture, Oregon State University
         Corvallis, OR 9733l 
         --------------------------------------------------- 
         ---------------------------------------------------   


From dragon@csulb.edu Sun Mar 12 22:09:40 EST 1995
Article: 57929 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!news.Gsu.EDU!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!csulb.edu!beach.csulb.edu!dragon
From: Brian Lo <dragon@csulb.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FAQ: Okra
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:46:10 -0800
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Lines: 230
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.950308134526.5532G-100000@beach.csulb.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: beach.csulb.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: A

                                   OKRA
                          Abelmoschus esculentus

      Okra is not well adapted to Oregon climatic conditions, requiring high
soil temperatures and high day and night temperatures for best production. 
Okra may be grown in the warmer parts of the state when special efforts are
made to provide the proper environmental conditions.  This would include the
use of plastic mulch and wind breaks to improve temperatures around the plant
and in the soil. 

VARIETIES

Green types:

      Blondy, 48-50 days, dwarf plant 3'high, spineless, ribbed, lime-green. 
Annie Oakley, 52 days, plants 3-4'tall.  Prelude, 52 days, plants 3-4'tall. 
Clemson Spineless, 55 days, plants 5' tall, pods 5-6"long, large diameter,
most commonly available variety.  Emerald, 55 days, plants 5' tall, pods to
8"long, small diameter.  Perkins Mammoth Long Pod, 60 days, plants 6 to 10'
tall, pods 7-8" long, intense green.

Red types:

      Red Okra; 55 to 65 days, 3 to 4 feet tall, bushy plants with 6 to 7"
pods.  Red Velvet; similar to Red Okra.

SEED COMPANIES

Asgrow Seed Company, POB 5038, Salinas CA 93915
Ferry-Morse Seed Co. POB 4938, 555 Codoni Ave. Modesto, CA 95352
La Marche Seeds International, POB 190, Dixon, CA 95620
Stokes Seeds Inc. POB 548, Buffalo, NY 14240

SOIL

      Well drained, sandy soils are preferred.  Addition of manure or other
organic material is usually beneficial on such light textured soils.  Okra
grows best in neutral to slightly alkaline soils, pH 6.5-7.5.

TEMPERATURE REQUIREMENTS

      Okra is a tropical plant requiring warm growing conditions.  Commercial
production is recommended only in the warmest portions of the state.  Night
temperatures should be above 55 F for good growth.

      Minimum soil temperature for germination is 60 F.  Optimum soil tempera-
ture range is 75-90 F.

PLASTIC ROW COVERS AND MULCHES

      Black plastic mulch will increase soil temperatures, control weeds, and
conserve moisture, increasing yield and earliness. A new generation of plastic
mulch films allows for good weed control together with soil warming that is
intermediate between black plastic and clear film.  These films are called IRT
(infra-red transmitting) films.  They are more expensive than black or clear
films, but may be cost-effective where soil warming is important.

      Spun bonded polyester and polypropylene, and perforated polyethylene row
covers may be used for 4-8 weeks immediately after transplanting.  Covers
should be removed when plants begin to flower to permit proper pollination. 
Row covers can increase heat unit accumulation by 2-3 times over ambient.  Up
to 4 F of frost protection may also be obtained at night.  Soil temperatures
and root growth can also be increased under row covers as are early yields,
and in some cases total yields.

SEEDING

      Okra seed numbers approximately 8,000 per pound.  Use approximately 8-12
lbs. seed/acre.  Plant 1" deep, 4-6 seeds/foot of row.  Thin to desired spa-
cing when plants are 3" tall.

      Germination many be enhanced by soaking seeds several (4-6 hours) hours
or overnight immediately before planting.  The seed will need to be surface
dried for mechanical planting.

SPACING

      Rows 36-48" apart, 12-24" between plants.  Tall or spiny cultivars
require wide spacing.

TRANSPLANTING

      Growers interested in early fresh market or in short growing season
areas may find it profitable to transplant.  Sow seeds in 2" pots or cell
packs, 3 seeds per pot, 1/4" deep, 4-5 weeks ahead of transplanting.  Thin to
1 plant per pot or cell.

FERTILIZER

      The following are general recommendations.  Before planting apply:

           Nitrogen:  30-50 lb./acre applied at planting.  Side dress with an
additional 35-50 lbs. N/acre when plants are 8-10" tall, or use 25 lb./acre
nitrogen after first fruit set and again after 4-6 weeks at the same rate. 
Adequate nitrogen is necessary to ensure a long harvest period, however
excessive rates are to be avoided as they can cause okra to become excessively
vegetative.

           Phosphorus:  50-100 lbs./acre, all applied at, or before planting.




IRRIGATION

      Okra requires adequate soil moisture throughout its entire growing
period if optimum growth and yield are to be obtained.  Avoid heavy early
irrigations as these can cool the soil and slow development.

HARVESTING, HANDLING AND STORAGE

      Okra pods should be harvested while still tender and before the seeds
are half grown.  This is usually 5-6 days after flowering.  Pods with tips
that will bend between the fingers without breaking are too tough for use as
fresh fruit.  Consumer preference demands pods 2 1/2"-3 1/2" in length.  Okra
should be harvested about 3 times each week.  Regular picking increases yield. 
Remove and discard old pods from the plant as such pods will retard pod set
and reduce total yield.  Under good conditions 300 to 400 lbs. might be
obtained per picking per acre.  In the warmer, longer season areas of Oregon
(the Columbia and Snake River areas) okra might be harvested over a 50 to 60
day season. 

      Okra plants and pods may have small spines to which some people are
allergic.  Pickers should wear gloves and long sleeved shirts as skin protec-
tion.

      STORAGE (quoted from USDA Ag. Handbook # 66):

      Hold okra at 45 to 50 F and 90 to 95 % relative humidity.  Okra deter-
iorates rapidly and is normally stored only briefly to hold for marketing or
processing.  Large quantities are canned, frozen or brined.  It has a very
high respiration rate at warm temperatures and should therefore be promptly
cooled to retard heating and subsequent deterioration.

      Okra in good condition can be stored satisfactorily for 7 to 10 days at
45 to 50 F.  At higher temperatures toughening, yellowing, and decay are
rapid.  A relative humidity of 90 to 95 % is desirable to prevent shriveling. 
At temperatures below 45 F okra is subject to chilling injury, which is
manifested by surface discoloration, pitting, and decay.  Holding okra for 3
days at 32 F may cause sever pitting.  Contact or to ice will cause water
spotting in 2 or 3 days.

      Fresh okra bruises easily, the bruises blackening within a few hours.  A
bleaching type of injury may also develop when okra is held in hampers for
more than 24 hours without refrigeration.  Storage containers should  permit
ventilation.

      Prepackaging in perforated film is helpful. both to prevent wilting and
physical injury during handling.  Results of a packaging study suggest that 5
to 10 % carbon dioxide in the atmosphere lengthens shelf life by about a week. 
Higher concentrations of carbon dioxide caused off-flavors.




PACKAGING

      Okra is shipped in bushel hampers or crates, holding 30 lb. net; 5/9
bushel crates, 18 lb. net; 12 quart baskets, 15-18 lb. net; or loose pack in
cartons or LA. lugs, 18 lb. net.

                           PEST CONTROL FOR OKRA

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW, TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST PEST
CONTROL HANDBOOKS, ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY, AND ARE REVISED ONLY ANNUALLY. 
BECAUSE OF CONSTANTLY CHANGING LABELS, LAWS, AND REGULATIONS, OREGON STATE
UNIVERSITY CAN ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF USE OF CHEMICALS
SUGGESTED HERE.  IN ALL CASES, READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS AND PRECAUTION-
ARY STATEMENTS ON THE SPECIFIC PESTICIDE PRODUCT LABEL.

                          USE PESTICIDES SAFELY!

Wear protective clothing and safety devices as recommended on the label. 
Bathe or shower after each use.

Read the pesticide label--even if you've used the pesticide before.  Follow
closely the instructions on the label (and any other directions you have).

Be cautious when you apply pesticides.  Know your legal responsibility as a
pesticide applicator.  You may be liable for injury or damage resulting from
pesticide use.


WEED CONTROL

     The Pacific Northwest Weed Control Handbook has no control entries for
this crop.  

     Cultivate as often as necessary when weeds are small.  Proper culti-
vation, field selection and rotations can reduce or eliminate the need for
chemical weed control.  


INSECT CONTROL

     The Pacific Northwest Insect Control Handbook has no control entries for
this crop.  

     Proper rotations and field selection can minimize problems with insects.


DISEASE CONTROL

     The Pacific Northwest Disease Control Handbook has no control entries for
this crop.  

     Proper rotations, field selection, sanitation, spacings, fertilizer and
irrigation practices can reduce the risk of many diseases.  Fields can be
tested for presence of harmful nematodes.  Using seed from reputable sources
reduces risk from "seed born" diseases.

     Use spacings and irrigations practices that minimize diseases and allow
for cultivation.  Choose fields free of perennial weeds and where related 

crops have not been grown for the previous three years to minimize problems
with diseases and weeds.   

          --------------------------------------------------
          --------------------------------------------------
          This  information was adapted by the  Oregon  State 
          University   Extension  Service  from  Oregon   and 
          Pacific  NW publications as well as other vegetable 
          production  guidelines  from  public   institutions 
          in  the  U.S.  and  Canada.  These  guidelines  are  
          intended as a general guide  for  Oregon commercial
          vegetable producers.  Address comments or questions
          to your County Extension Agent or Dr. N. S. Mansour
          Department of Horticulture, Oregon State University
          Corvallis, OR 9733l.
          --------------------------------------------------


From macrakis@osf.org Sun Mar 12 22:09:54 EST 1995
Article: 57931 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!paperboy.osf.org!usenet
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How do I grow perennials from seed???
Date: 10 Mar 1995 22:37:11 GMT
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <MACRAKIS.95Mar10173711@lakatos.osf.org>
References: <5g5atdU.dovetail@delphi.com> <1995Mar7.141640.39826@cobra.uni.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lakatos.osf.org
In-reply-to: klier@cobra.uni.edu's message of 7 Mar 95 14:16:40 -0600
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I've been trying to get good information on perennial seed starting
too.  I've used the libraries at the Massachusetts Horticultural
Society (across from Symphony Hall in Boston) and the Loeb Library at
Harvard's Graduate School of Design, and browsed the bookstores.  On
the other hand, I have ZERO practical experience -- this will be my
first time.

_Park's Success with Seeds_ (by Ann Reilly) looks pretty good.  Its
reference section contains about half a page for each kind of plant,
with a picture of a seedling (useful for identification).  It covers
ornamentals well, and also vegetables.

_The Seed-starter's handbook_ (by Nancy Bubel) is apparently pretty
popular, but I didn't like it much.  It concentrates on vegetables,
but has some coverage on ornamentals.

Both of the above are apparently out of print, but fortunately the
book below seems far better than either.

By far the best book I've seen on seed starting, but also other forms
of propagation, is _Creative propagation: a grower's guide_ (by Peter
Thompson).  Timber Press sells this for $23 (one bookstore that stocks
it is WordsWorth in Cambridge, Mass. (http://www.wordsworth.com/misc/
other.html).  Thompson is a very experienced propagator, and has lots
of very down-to-earth advice on a variety of situations.  He doesn't
believe in fancy or expensive equipment, just good information and
good technique.  He covers everything from starting a few plants to
setting up a greenhouse to fill a 1/3-acre lot!

He has a "propagation table" which gives information on about 600
plants.

For example, for Stachys (lamb's ears), the propagation table reads:

Name    Seeds         | Cuttings                     | Divisions
        Cld  Htd  Cnd | Tip  S/M  Hdw  Bas  Rt   Bud | Div  Lay  Blb
                      |                              |
Stachys ...  3/4  ... | ...  ...  ...  6-8  ...  ... | 4:8  ...  ...

Which means:

Propagate by:

  Seed in a heated bed in March or April

or

  Basal cuttings in June through August

or

  Division of rooted shoots from parent plant in April or August

The dates are based on experience in England, so may have to be
adjusted for US conditions.

	-s


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:10:17 EST 1995
Article: 57935 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: seedlings for kids
Message-ID: <1995Mar10.210814.40053@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 10 Mar 95 21:08:14 -0600
References: <jgolden.18.000C9D9B@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil> <9503101538327975@nwcs.org>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 47
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <9503101538327975@nwcs.org>, chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org (Chenaya Strutton) writes:
> JG>From: jgolden@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil (Joel Golden)
>   >What's a good plant for a class of kids to sprout seeds?
> 
>   I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions for this...
> 
>   Radishes, marigolds, leaf-type lettuce, sunflower and alyssum come to
>   mind. And while I think about it, I rememder being enthralled by corn
>   and bean seeds that were sprouted in glass jars. If I remember right,
>   you rolled up stiff paper towels (the kind most schools have) and set
>   them upright in a jar so the paper conforms to the shape of the jar.
>   Then stuffed crumpled paper towels into the center to hold it in
>   place. Then added enough water so that the paper stayed wet but not
>   soggy. Then put bean or corn seeds that had soaked in water over-night
>   in the jars, against the glass about half way up. You might have to
>   add more paper towels to hold everything in place. ...

More fun and games with the rolled-towels-in-a-glass:  Can plants
that have started to grow right side up turn themselves upright if
the glass is then laid on its side?  Is there a particular part of 
the plant that bends?  Can you make a plant stem do a complete loop
by repositioning the glass a little at a time, or will it "work
the kinks out"?  Does it matter which species you're looking at?
What if you put a seedling in a carboard maze, away from the entrance,
and put the lid on the box and put the entrance to the maze in the 
light?  Can the plant find its way out?  What's the longest you can
persuade a bean plant to grow while looking for light?  If you start 
seedlings in the dark, and bring them into the light, how fast do
they green up?  Is it an all or nothing process, or gradual (hint:
start *lots* of small batches of seedlings in the dark, and bring
out a new pot every hour.  But the room you're keeping the seedlings
in has to be dark, dark, dark!)

If tops of plants always grow back up when you reorient a seedling,
do roots always go down?  What happens when you plant a corn seed
in the various orientations (flat sides down, pointy end down, 
broad end down)?  Can seeds turn in the soil so they're "right side
up"?  (Is there a "right side up" for a seed?)

....

(yes, it's ok for grownups to do these experiments, too... go ahead
and have fun!  8-) )


Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:10:24 EST 1995
Article: 57936 of rec.gardens
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From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What are you growing from seed?
Message-ID: <1995Mar10.211020.40054@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 10 Mar 95 21:10:20 -0600
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In article <3jqmut$mcp@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, birdmommy@aol.com (Birdmommy) writes:
> No, let's NOT start on the vegetables! (grin)  I think I've created a
> monster!  My 7 year old has asked us to take DOWN her swingset so she can
> put in a vegetable garden (swingset sits on the only LEVEL piece of soil
> in the backyard, it USED to be my veggie garden....)  We then proceeded to
> send off a check for $20 to Gurney for the seeds she wanted and an extra
> penny for the "Kids Jumble" pack.  I just hope my neighbors like
> veggies.......all this started with 2 packets of tomato seeds, of which
> all sprouted in one and all PLUS TEN (huh?  where did THEY come from?) in
> the second packet!  I now have 56 tomato plants!!!  Anybody want me to
> e-mail them some tomatoes?

Shhhhh!  My swingset was still up when I was in college (the neighbor
kids liked to play on it)... I wanted to cover it with plastic and have
an unheated greenhouse....  :-)

Kay   klier@cobra.uni.edu



From ledwards@crl.com Sun Mar 12 22:10:29 EST 1995
Article: 57937 of rec.gardens
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From: ledwards@crl.com (Lynn Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: tomato worms
Date: 7 Mar 1995 21:20:34 -0800
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Jerald Brainin (jabes@lamg.com) wrote:
: I am looking for an effective non-toxic answer to tomato worms?????

What about Bacillus Thuringiensis?  It's sold under several brand names - 
ask any nursery.  Wait though, did you mean non-toxic even to tomato 
worms? :-)

Years ago someone told me that the stripes on a tomato worm were 
florescent under ultra violet light.  Since I am one to never leave a 
bizarre remedy untested I set out one night with the UV light from an EPROM 
eraser (never mind what that is - think of it a a blacklight on steroids).  
It was powered through a long extension cord plugged into my kitchen.  

Wow, what an experience!  The tomato worms were more visible then 
they are during the day.  In daylight the "color" of the worm is the same 
as the plant making them very hard to spot.  Under UV illumination the 
contrast between the worm and the tomato are quite different.  The 
stripes do NOT exhibit florescence, though.  The whole worm worm is just 
a different color.

It is not he tomato worms that are interesting though.  It is the spiders.  
There were some spiders in my tomato plants that lit up in incredible 
brilliance.  I mean BIG spiders, the ones you never see during the day.  
Big angry stripes over their eyes, racing stripes along their bodies, 
you have to see it to understand.  I have never been able to reach into 
the center of a tomato plant to pluck that last juicy tomato with the same 
casual attitude ever since.

The end result of my experiment is that the extension cord that I snaked 
through the garden did more damage than all the tomato worms I have ever 
encountered put together.  Each little tug on the cord sheared off 
another plant right at ground level totally unknown to me until I went 
out the next morning.  Extension cords just aren't visible at night even 
under UV.

---Lynn Edwards





From reikirk@ksu.ksu.edu Sun Mar 12 22:10:51 EST 1995
Article: 57941 of rec.gardens
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From: reikirk@ksu.ksu.edu (Bob Kirk)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: BLUE poppies!  Was <How about artichokes in Zone 7?>
Date: 7 Mar 1995 23:29:36 -0600
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>PS - Did anyone see this months Gardens Illustrated?  How 'bout them
>Himalayan Blue Poppies?  I found a local supplier for these seeds, but I
>have been told that they do not germinate very well.  Anyone know of any
>stock that I can get my hands on?  Are they hardy in Zone 5 (I am assuming
>they are)?

Denver Botanic Garden (per your mail address) may be able to provide
some answers. I seem to remember hearing that the blue Meconopsis grew
like weeds for [someone there whose name I don't remember] who lived up
at Evergreen.
    Anyway, check with the help desk, library or whatever at DBG.  The
short answer, though, is that down in Denver you probably can't keep 'em
alive for ten minutes - apparently the case for just about anyplace in the
USA, though it's never been known to keep people from trying.


From doucet@cae.ca Sun Mar 12 22:11:25 EST 1995
Article: 57946 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: doucet@cae.ca (Dominique Doucet)
Subject: >>> Help:Begonias FAQ ???
Message-ID: <1995Mar8.205315.25859@cae.ca>
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I there,

I saw a FAQ on Roses when surfing the internet.

I'm looking for some information on Begonia.
Is there a FAQ on Begonia somewhere.

The reason why i'm looking for that is that
i bought approx. 2500 plants of begonia
that i want to uses for my wedding in July 95.

I'm not a botany expert, so that why i want to find
more info on this type of flower.

Thank you in advance ...

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: Dominique Doucet       : If the human brain were simple  : 
: Mtl,Quebec,            : enough for us to understand,    : 
: Canada                 : we'd be so simple we couldn't.  : 
: Email: doucet@cae.ca   :                                 :  
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


From afsan@io.org Sun Mar 12 22:11:28 EST 1995
Article: 57947 of rec.gardens
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From: afsan@io.org (afsan)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Wildflowers - Southern Ontario
Date: 9 Mar 1995 20:14:32 -0500
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Sorry, I can't recommend a source for wildflower /mixes/ in our area, but if
you want individual plants, I recommend the Canadian Wildflower Society. 
Every winter their magazine lists available seed which has been grown or
collected by members and they hold sales twice a year which feature native
trees, bushes and wildflowers.  The spring wildflower sale is especially
good.  This year's sale is April 15 at the Civic Garden Centre, 777 Lawrence
Ave. East, North York (Toronto).  Doors open at 10:00 and it lasts several
hours as the mobs descend upon the hapless plants.
Mike



From talisman@crl.com Sun Mar 12 22:11:39 EST 1995
Article: 57949 of rec.gardens
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From: talisman@crl.com (Jim Huber)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Favorite Garden Tools
Date: 10 Mar 1995 20:09:11 -0800
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I couldn't do with this tool either - it's absolutely the best weeder I've
ever used.  I use it for _all_ weeds, as it's narrower point can manage
the most delicate weeding, yet it has the heft and leverage to get down 
deep in the soil to make getting the long tap-rooted weeds with ease. 

I have it in its holster on a work belt along with my equally
indispensable pruner; both go with me everywhere in the garden.  So far no
one has dared to comment that I look armed and dangerous :-). 

Jan Mountjoy
San Francisco Bay Area


David Kolasa (dak2@psu.edu) wrote:
: I've found a Japanese gardening knife that I got from Smith and Hawkins a few 
: years back to be indispensible now. Usually Smith and Hawkins is way out of my 
: price range but this knife was about $7. It is very sturdy, about 8" long and 
: 1 1/2" wide and one side of the blade is serrated. It's great for working in 
: small tight spots and digging down deep to get hard to extract roots. I've 
: seen one like it for sale at Walmart.

: A few of my friends have seen it and say its scary looking . . . tho' I think 
: the wide blade and serrated edge make it look like a tool not a weapon.


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:12:22 EST 1995
Article: 57958 of rec.gardens
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From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: morning glory foliage 
Message-ID: <1995Mar10.222517.40057@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 10 Mar 95 22:25:17 -0600
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In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.950310164613.23794A-100000@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, FEENEY <n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu> writes:
> On this list we have had various discussions about confusions with common 
> names.  Morning glories fall into this category.  I grow Ipomoeas as 
> annuals, from seed, not to be confused with bindweed, a similar looking 
> vine, sharing the same common name of morning glory but a nasty invasive 
> brut as perennial as the seasons.  So, taxonomists out there, please 
> explain how the genus Convolvulus fits into the name game here.  And what 
> about Quamoclit (star glory) and Calonyction (moonflower).  Are these now 
> classified as Ipomoeas?  

Last time I looked at the generally accepted schemes for the Convolvulaceae,
Ipomoea was considered to have 2-3 lobed capitate stigmas, and Convolvulus
to have 2-cleft (linear, oblong, ovate) stigmas, and Calystegia, 
and which had solitary flowers and 1-loculate fruits vs. multiloculate
fruits in the rest of the Convolvulaceae.

Calystegia and Convolvulus are usually called bindweeds: about 25 species
of Calystegia, and 250 of Convolvulus.   There are roughly 500 species
of Ipomoea.

Morning glory is used for most of the genus Ipomoea, but it also
includes I. alba (moonflower, once called Calonyction), I. batatas,
sweet potato (not to be confused with yams, which are Dioscorea, of
the Dioscoreaceae!), I. coccinea, once known as Quamoclit coccinea,
and I. nil, once called Pharbitis nil, beloved of plant physiologists.

I know it drives most people up the wall to think that names can change,
and a single species can masquerade under a bunch of different scientific
names, but the name changes do reflect our evolutionary understanding
of the groups: they're not just the product of a fevered brain that
has been around too many mothballs.  (Besides, we've got ways of
tracing all those name changes... eventually, they all lead back
to a real plant, glued on a piece of paper, and filed in a herbarium).

Don't sweat the name changes... if you can't locate a plant under
the scientific name you thought you knew it by, ask a taxonomist to
help locate synonyms.  BTW, the USDA GRIN (germplasm resources 
information network) and the Gray Herbarium gopher at Harvard
are good places to start.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:13:28 EST 1995
Article: 57969 of rec.gardens
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From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Amaryllis (spell)question
Message-ID: <1995Mar8.165244.39901@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 8 Mar 95 16:52:44 -0600
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In article <3jkhkk$2sd1@lamar.ColoState.EDU>, zaphod@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Kennedy) writes:

> I decided to try and fertilize a flower.  I dipped my fingertip in the pollen and 
> fertilized two flowers.  My reward is (after one week)
> two (I hate vi) seed pods forming.  Here's my question-- What 
shouldn't I do with these pods?  How long till ripe? What 
don't I plant the seeds in?

Well, I can't answer your questions specifically, but what I WOULD do
is to wait till the fruit is starting to turn brown... probably in
a couple of months.... and then remove the seeds, which will look
like dark bb's.  Spread the seeds on a flat of soil, cover with sand
or soil, water, and incubate.  You should get seedlings within a month
or so.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:13:31 EST 1995
Article: 57970 of rec.gardens
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From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mushy Vegetables
Message-ID: <1995Mar8.165739.39903@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 8 Mar 95 16:57:38 -0600
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In article <D54xB3.9v1@anasazi.com>, naomi@anasazi.com (Naomi Walker) writes:
> 
> 
> I believe we've talked about this before, but I need a reminder.  I
> have been very successful growing carrots and celery this winter.  
> When I harvest them, I bring them in the house, wash and dry them,
> and put them in the refrigerator in those new "vegetable" bags (plastic
> bags with little air holes).  
> 
> Even though the vegetables are quite crisp coming out of the garden,
> they get rubbery in the house.  Anyone have any suggestions?

They're getting rubbery as they loose water.  Try a regular ziplock
bag or a "tupperware"-type container.  Soak the carrots and celery
sticks in plain water for an hour before you use them if the problem
persists.

One of the most successful "veggie keepers" I ever used was a
sealed plastic box with a raised grid floor.  You put water in
the box so that it covered the floor of the box, but didn't touch
the grid.  Veggies went on top of the grid.  Result: 100% humidity.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From herb@tuna.hooked.net Sun Mar 12 22:13:57 EST 1995
Article: 57975 of rec.gardens
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From: herb@tuna.hooked.net (Jackie Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: How to put minerals back into the earth, soil anywhere, anytime, anyplace a simple process!!
Date: 8 Mar 1995 15:11:40 -0800
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send your email address to Herb Consultants and we will send you the
process to put back into our soil what we have taken out over the years  so
our plants can produce the nutrients that they once did.(lawns, gardens,
flowers beds, pots, any type soil) 
 
Jackie 
herb@hooked.net


From dragon@csulb.edu Sun Mar 12 22:14:21 EST 1995
Article: 57979 of rec.gardens
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From: Brian Lo <dragon@csulb.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FAQ: Cucumber Pickles
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:44:57 -0800
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                                CUCUMBER for PICKLING
                                   Cucumis sativus
                     (See also file on cucumbers for fresh market)

VARIETIES (approximately 50-60 days to start of hand harvest and 60-70 days to
machine harvest in the Willamette Valley).

      Processors determine varieties to be grown.  Brining quality (firmness,
color), length:width ratio, seed development rate, fruit appearance, disease
resistance and yield are primary considerations. Varieties suggested for
direct market and U-Pick operations are:

      Hand harvest, black spine types:  Pioneer, Bounty.  White spine:
Calypso, Regal, Cross Country, Flurry M, FanciPack, Blitz, Carolina, Tripleme-
ch, Quest, Duke.

      Machine harvest, determinate vine types: Napoleon, Vlaspik, Castlepik,
Sunseeds 3509. Semi, or in-determinate types:  Lafayette, Calypso, Quest,
Fanci Pack, Flurry M, Cross Country, Regal, Triplemech (all with multiple
disease resistance and white spine).  For trial:  Duke, Premier, Score, Royal,
(all white spine, with multiple disease resistance); Peto H-19 Little Leaf,
also white spine).

      Parthenocarpic (needing no pollination) varieties FOR TRIAL ONLY: Anka,
Parmel, Arena, Adonis; County Fair (multiple disease resistance, and seedless
when isolated from other cucumbers).

SEED COMPANIES

Asgrow Seed Company, POB 5038, Salinas CA 93915
Bejo Seeds, 1323 E. Fir St. Mount Vernon WA 98273
Ferry-Morse Seed Co. POB 4938, 555 Codoni Ave. Modesto, CA 95352
Harris Moran Seed Co. 3670 Buffalo Rd. Rochester, NY 14624
Nunhems Seed Corp. POB 18, Lewisville, ID 83431-0018.  ph:208/754-8669
Park Seed Co.  Cokesbury Road, Greenwood, SC 29647-0001
Petoseed Co. Inc. POB 4206, Saticoy, CA 93303
Stokes Seeds Inc. POB 548, Buffalo, NY 14240
Sunseeds, 2320 Technology Pkwy. Hollister, CA 95023
W. Osborne Seed Co. Int'l. 1679 Highway 99 South, Mount Vernon, WA 98273 
Zenner Bros. Seed Co., Inc.  1311 S.E. Gideon St. Portland, OR 97202

SOILS

      Pickling cucumbers can be grown on a wide range of soils if the soils
are well drained and have about 2-3% organic matter, and a high level of
fertility. Irrigation is essential to maintain good soil moisture and to
obtain high quality fruit.  Avoid heavy soils or those easily compacted.  Use
a soil test to determine the nutrient status and pH.

      For machine harvest, avoid clay soils since clay can seriously dirty the
fruit under wet conditions.  Choose fields that are rectangular for efficiency
of machine harvest.  Avoid fields enclosed by tree rows that limit air
movement, since this may provide an environment conducive to foliar and fruit
diseases.

TEMPERATURE

      Recent research indicates that temperature range for optimum cucumber
growth is 86-90 F. Night temperatures above 70 F. especially when combined
with moisture stress result in rapid seed development and softening of
internal tissues.

      Minimum soil temperature required for germination of this crop is 60 F.
with the optimum between 70 and 95 F.  Pickling cucumbers are sensitive to
cool soil conditions.  Under such conditions, damping-off can seriously reduce
stands, and seedling growth may be very slow. 

SEED AND SEED TREATMENT

      Cucumber seed numbers approximately 17,600 per pound, except Little Leaf
types which are smaller, numbering about 32,000 per pound.  Use treated seed. 
Pickling cucumbers can be particularly sensitive to damping-off problems. 
Proper seed treatments can dramatically improve stands.  

      Some seed companies offer primed seed.  Growers may also send seed to
specialty companies that will prime seed for them on request.  New develop-
ments in seed priming (solid matrix priming) offer advantages not available
until very recently.  Although primed seed may emerge earlier and more
uniformly, reducing certain production risks, these advantages may, or may not
translate into earlier harvests, higher yields or better quality.  Primed seed
has limited storage life.

SEEDING

      Approximately 60-70 days are required between seeding and machine har-
vest.  Sequential plantings are necessary for orderly harvest.  Heat-unit
systems to schedule plantings are of limited use.  Processing company fieldmen
will determine schedules appropriate to processing needs.

      Cucumbers for pickling are planted from about mid May through June. 
Fields intended for hand harvest are planted as soon as weather permits with
subsequent planting dates left largely up to the grower.  Fields for machine
harvest are planted on a tight schedule to fit product grade requirements,
processing capabilities and harvesting machinery availability 

      Pickling cucumbers varieties are always direct-seeded.  Seed carefully
at a depth l/2 to l in. depending on soil moisture.  For hand harvest plan-
tings use about 2 to 2 1/2 lbs. of seed per acre aiming or populations of
about 20,000 plants per acre.

      Limited research on the economics of combining hand and machine harvest
indicate that plant populations for such fields should be the same as for
fields intended for machine harvest only.

      Use about 6-9 lbs. of seed per acre and populations of 75,000 to 85,000
plants per acre for plantings intended for once-over (destructive) machine
harvest.  Generally 1 lb of seed produces 12000-15000 plants under good
conditions. 

Final Spacing:                                               Recommended
                           Between Rows      Within Row      Population      

    for hand harvest       4-5 feet          6-8 inches      18,000-20,000
   (300 to 450 square
   inches per plant)

    for machine harvest    18-28 inches,     3-4 inches      indeterminate
    (84-90 inch headers)   (3 or 4 rows                          types:
                             per bed)                        75,000-85,000   

                                                             determinate
                                                                types:
                                                            85,000-120,000

                                                            Little Leaf
                                                            35,000-40,000

      Note:  74 square inches per plant spacing results in approximately
             85,000 plants/Acre

WINDBREAKS

      Where needed, windbreaks are often overlooked as a crop protection aid. 
In general, close windbreaks, even between every row, give the best wind
protection and may moderate the crop micro-climate enough to promote faster
plant growth.  Where winter cover crops have been employed, it would be a good
practice to leave strips of the cover crop as windbreaks.  In this case, the
strips for the plant beds can be prepared by rototilling, leaving windbreak
strips between the plant rows.

      Establishment of a windbreak crop in the previous fall will insure
enough growth to become effective as a windbreak by spring planting time. 
Seed grain thickly, 2-3 seeds per inch.  This requires about 10 lbs. of
barley, 9 lbs. of wheat, or 8 lbs. of rye to seed grain rows 12 feet apart. 
Spring grains such as barley may be useful if planted in February in eastern
Oregon.

      Windbreaks can be removed by mowing, tilling, or an appropriate herb-
icide once their useful life is over.


FERTILIZER

      Good management practices are essential if optimum fertilizer responses
are to be realized.  These practices include use of recommended varieties,
selection of adapted soils, weed control, disease and insect control, good
seed bed preparation, proper seeding methods, and timely harvest.  

      Because of the influence of soil type, climatic conditions, and other
cultural practices, crop response from fertilizer may not always be accurately
predicted.  Soil test results, field experience, and knowledge of specific
crop requirements help determine the nutrients needed and the rate of applica-
tion.  

      The fertilizer program should insure adequate levels of all nutrients. 
Optimum fertilization is essential for top quality, yields, and returns.  

      Recommended soil sampling procedures should be followed in order to
estimate fertilizer needs.  The OSU Extension Service agent in your county can
provide you with soil sampling instructions and soil sample bags and informa-
tion sheets.  

      Recommendations are based on a row spacing of 60".  With decreased row
spacings fertilizer rates should be increased. 

Western Oregon:

                               NITROGEN (N)

      For fields intended for hand-harvested plantings rates of 80 to 150 lb
N/A are suggested with the lower rates of N being applied when legumes were
grown the preceding year or a green manure crop is incorporated into the soil
prior to planting.  Apply one-half the nitrogen at or just prior to planting
and the rest when vines begin to "run".  

      For machine harvested fields nitrogen rates of 60 to 100 lbs appear to
be adequate.  All the nitrogen may be applied at, or just prior to planting. 
Determinate vine cultivars may produce highest yields at the higher N rates
per acre without danger of excessive vine growth.

      Exercise care in nitrogen fertilization and irrigation.  Excess applica-
tions of either may result in viney plant growth which interferes with bee
pollination and machine harvest, and promotes foliar and fruit diseases,
resulting in reduced fruit set, loss of small pickles in machine harvest, and
an increase in fruit disorders. 
          
     Although plant populations are much higher for machine harvested fields
than hand-picked fields, the machine-harvested fields have a much shorter
production period, generally being harvested once destructively.  Fields
intended to be hand-picked several times before a machine harvest would have
to have nitrogen managed differently.  

     Pickling cucumbers are sensitive to fertilizer burn.  If the application
of N plus potash (K2 O) exceeds 50 lb/A, there is danger of seedling injury
from the fertilizer if it is all banded at planting time.  There is less
danger if the band application is split into two bands.  The danger is
aggravated as the band comes closer to the seed, and  is greater with sandy
than with finer textured soil.  Immediate irrigation at the first sign of burn
should reduce further injury.  There is more possibility of damage to seed-
lings on acid soils where the pH is below 5.5.  

                              PHOSPHORUS (P)

      Phosphorus fertilizer should be banded at planting for vigorous early
seedling growth.  Bands should be located 2" to the side and 2" below the
seed.  Phosphorus management would be the same for hand and machine harvested
fields.

          If the OSU soil test           Apply this amount of
          for P reads (ppm):             phosphate (P2 O5 (lb/A):

                0 to 15                          120-150
               l5 to 60                           90-120   
                over 60                           60-90

      In some areas, a diluted phosphoric acid solution sprayed in a 1-2 inch
wide band directly over the seed row has shown to reduce crusting, improve
phosphorus nutrition of the crop and increase yield.  The benefit of this
treatment would be most likely to occur with early plantings on cool soils.  

                               POTASSIUM (K)

      Potassium for both hand and machine harvested fields should be applied
before planting or banded at planting time.  Amounts above 40 lb K2 O/A should
be broadcast and worked into the seedbed.  See statements on fertilizer
banding under "NITROGEN".  Potassium management would be the same for hand and
machine harvested fields.

          If the OSU soil test     Apply this amount of
          for P reads (ppm):       potash K2 O (lb/A):

                0 to 75                 100-150
               75 to 150                 60-100
              150 to 200                 40-60
                over 200                   0

                                SULFUR (S)

      Include 20-30 lb S/A in the annual fertilizer program for vine crops.  S
is sometimes contained in fertilizers used to supply other nutrients such as
N, P, and K but may not be present in sufficient quantity.  

      Plants absorb S in the form of sulfate.  Fertilizer materials supply
sulfur in the form of sulfate and elemental S.  Elemental S must convert to
sulfate in the soil before the S becomes available to plants.  The conversion
of elemental S to sulfate is usually rapid for fine ground (less than 40 mesh)
material in warm moist soil.  

      Sulfur in the sulfate form can be applied at planting time.  Some S
fertilizer materials such as elemental S and ammonium sulfate have an aci-
difying effect on soil.  

                              MAGNESIUM (Mg)

      When the soil test value is below 1.5 meq Mg/100g of soil or when
calcium (Ca) is ten times more than the Mg, apply 10-15 lb Mg/A banded at
planting.  If Mg deficiency symptoms appear, spray with 10 lb Epsom salts in
100 gals of water/A.  

      Magnesium can also be supplied in dolomite, which is a liming material
and will reduce soil acidity.  Dolomite should be incorporated into the
seedbed at the rate of 1-1 1/2 T/A.  

                                 BORON (B)

      In general, boron deficiencies are uncommon.  If the soil test value for
B is less than 1 ppm, an application of 3 lb B/A is suggested.  Boron should
be applied uniformly to the field as a spray or broadcast.  Never band B
fertilizer.  Cucumbers are sensitive to excess Boron.

                                 ZINC (Zn)

      Zinc deficiencies are uncommon in Willamette Valley soils.  When the
soil test is below 1 ppm Zn, a response to Zn is expected and 4 lb Zn/A should
be included in the fertilizer band.  

                                   LIME

      Experimental work has shown that vine crops will produce good yields
over a fairly wide range of soil acidity.  Lime applications are suggested
when the soil pH is 5.6 or below, or when calcium (Ca) levels are below 5 meq
Ca/100g of soil.  Optimum pH is between 5.8 and 7.0.  

      The rate of lime application can be estimated from the following OSU SMP
buffer table.  

          If the OSU SMP buffer    Apply this amount of
          test for lime reads:        lime (T/A):

               Below 5.2                   4-5
               5.2 - 5.6                   3-4
               5.6 - 5.9                   2-3
               5.9 - 6.2                   1-2

                  The liming rate is based on 100-score lime.  

      Lime should be mixed into the soil at least several weeks before plan-
ting.  A lime application is effective over several years.

      Some soils may have a fairly high OSU SMP buffer value (over 6.5) and a
low pH (below 5.5).  This condition can be caused by the application of
acidifying fertilizer.  In this case the low pH value is temporary and the pH
of the soil will increase as the fertilizer completes its reaction with the
soil.  This temporary "active" acidity from fertilizer is encountered follow-
ing recent applications of most N fertilizer materials.  Acidifying fertiliz-
ers also have a "long term" acidifying effect on soil which is cumulative and
leads to lower OSU SMP buffer readings.  

      Sandy soils to which fertilizers have not been recently applied some-
times record low pH and high SMP buffer values.  In such cases, a light
application of 1-2 T/A of lime should suffice to neutralize soil acidity.  

      For acid soils low in Mg (less than 0.8 meq Mg/100g of soil), 1 T/A of
dolomite lime can be used as a Mg source.  Dolomite and ground lime stone have
about the same ability to neutralize soil acidity.  

      The possibility of seedling injury from the band application of ferti-
lizer is less when the soil pH is 5.6 or above.  Some Willamette Valley
experiments have shown decreased uptake of phosphorus from band applications
of phosphorus when the pH approaches 5.5.  

      Lime applications should be broadcast, preferably in the fall, and
incorporated into the seedbed.  Do not plow lime down leaving the surface soil
unlimed.  

      Fertilizer Guide #2, "Liming Materials for Oregon", which is available
from your local OSU Extension Office, provides additional information lime.  

Eastern Oregon:

      At time of seeding, band the following:

      Nitrogen: 40-60 (N) lb./acre 
      Phosphate: 100-150 (P205) lb/acre 
      Potash: 50-70 (K20) lb/acre

      Just before the vines begin to spread, side-dress with 50-75 lb/acre 
of nitrogen.  For machine harvested pickling cucumbers, see notes under the
"Western Oregon" section above. 

      These fertilizer recommendations are based on research conducted by
O.S.U. Horticulture and Soils Department and  Extension faculty, and are
quoted from O.S.U. Fertilizer Guide FG 68.


FLOWERING AND POLLINATION

      Depending on cultivar, pickling cucumbers plants may bear separate male
and female flowers on the same plant (monoecious), only female flowers (gyno-
ecious), or male flowers and perfect flowers (male and female organs in the
same flower) i.e. andromonoecious.  Most modern cultivars have plants that
bear only female flowers (gynoecious), so seeds of plants that are monoecious
(bearing separate male and female flowers on the same plant) are mixed into
the seed lot (usually 10 to 15%) to allow pollination.  These seeds are
usually dyed a different color from the seeds of the cultivar being planted.

      Bees are needed to transfer pollen from the male flowers to the female
flowers, thus making fruit set possible.  It is recommended that 1-2 honey bee
colonies of 30,000 to 50,000 bees each be introduced for every acre during the
blooming period.  High population plantings intended for machine harvest
require 2-3 colonies for the 1-2 week period coinciding with peak bloom. 
Naturally occurring bee populations are not considered to be adequate since
their presence may not coincide with the full blooming period, or their
numbers may be too low.  Furthermore, the new gynoecious pickling varieties
are less attractive to bees.  Information from the midwest indicates that
pickling cucumbers require at least 15 bee visits to each flower for normal
pollination and fruit set, and maximum yields, although some of the new
all-female varieties may set as much as one-third of their yield without being
pollinated.

      Another reason for a high bee population at first bloom is that pollina-
tion of flowers in the crown area over a short period (1-2 days) will result
in the desired multiple fruit per plant and a range of usable fruit sizes.  If
pollination of flowers occurs over an extended period of time (several days)
the later pollinated flowers will not develop until the first pollinated fruit
is removed.  This results in the often observed single fruit per plant in the
crown area with all other fruit development stopped. 

      Hives should be placed at the edge of the field after the first blooms
are visible so that no point in the field is more than 200-300 yards away from
a colony.  Placing bees prior to flowering may result in the bees establishing
themselves on nearby crops thus reducing their effectiveness in cucumber
pollination.  Research indicates that total yield increases resulting from
good bee management can range from 25 to 50 percent.  Pickling cucumber
growers in the midwest are reported to have experienced an average increase of
30 percent from effective use of bees.

IRRIGATION

      Irrigation requirements depend on the length of harvest.  Some fields 
may be hand harvested 10-12 times and need to be kept growing adequately.  
Ten to fifteen inches of water may be required depending on seasonal variation
and variety.  Irrigations need to be coordinated with picking schedules. 

      Adequate, uniform water applications are necessary to produce high
quality fruit.  Water stress contributes to higher incidence of nubs and
crooks, and reduced fruit length.  Water stress coupled with high night
temperatures also results in rapid seed development and softening of cucumber
internal tissues.

      Field observations in fields intended for machine harvest indicate that
as harvest approaches (when fruit reaches a mean grade of 2.0), irrigation and
soil moisture can have a dramatic effect on fruit sizing.  When irrigation is
applied at this time, especially during warm temperatures, fruit grade size
can increase by 0.2 of a grade per day, necessitating harvest in 2 to 2.5
days.  Conversely, if fruit sizing needs to be slowed or delayed, irrigation
should be delayed, as long as it does not result in fruit wilting or crop
damage.

      Soil type does not affect the amount of total water needed, but does
dictate frequency of water application.  Lighter soils need more frequent
water applications, but less water applied per application.         

HARVESTING AND HANDLING

      In western Oregon, pickling cucumbers are harvested from about mid July
to mid October.  The prime harvest season is from the end of July to the end
of September.

      Oregon plantings are mostly hand harvested at this time. Different
prices are paid for machine and hand harvested fruit.  Processing requirements
are set according to variety and desired product.  Pickling cucumbers are
graded by diameter.  One processor grades:  Grade #1: cucumbers less than 1";
grade #2: 1"-1.5"; grade #3: 1.5"-2".  Fruit over 2" diameter is rejected by
some or accepted up to 2.5" at minimal value for a maximum percentage per load
by others.  Nubs and crooks are also graded separately and paid for at a
minimal price.

      Approximate average yields of pickling cucumbers are about 12 tons per
acre for hand harvested fields that are picked about 10-12 times.  Good yields
are approximately 15-18 tons/acre. Where contracts are on a tonnage basis, and
because of labor constraints, growers may over-plant acres so as to fulfill
their contracts with less (7-10) pickings. 

      For highest returns, thoroughly harvest marketable fruit at regular
intervals.  Remove oversize fruit so later fruit can develop properly.  During
warm weather conditions, pickling cucumbers may grow very rapidly and it is
important to shorten harvest intervals.  Pickling cucumbers can have a 40 %
weight increase in 24 hours, especially when fields are well irrigated (see
IRRIGATION section above), and may depreciate in value by 5 to 15 % over the
same period. 

      Machine harvested yields are approximately 6 tons/acre with good yields
about 10 tons/acre.  Yield is greatly dependent on the grade of the harvested
product, so tonnage figures are a poor indicator of dollar return per acre. 
New harvesters (FMC) have demonstrated the capability of picking a higher
percentage of small fruit and a better dollar return per acre.
      For once-over, destructive, machine harvest, the proper time is a major
decision.  Maximum dollar return per acre, and maximum value per ton, do not
occur at the same time.  Harvest time must be based on accurate field samp-
ling.  The processing company may dictate time of harvest based on their
requirements for cucumber sizes.  The grower must establish an agreement with
the processor on time of harvest and grade values based on interactions of the
type of machine harvester, variety, plant population and time of harvest. 
Machine harvesting and bulk handling capability may be limiting, and would
have to be considered.

      Machine harvest with a Wilde or Byron harvester is usually begun when
the average graded weight of harvested pickles is about 2.5.  With the variety
Calypso, this occurs just when the grade 4 pickles (oversize) reaches between
5 and 10 percent.  The Raven Pickle Harvester, a harvesting machine built by
Jerry's Welding of Ravenna, Michigan, has an oversize eliminator that sorts
oversize cucumbers and puts them back on the field.  

      The new FMC harvester which is designed to pick a higher percentage of
small fruit may allow an earlier harvest start and a wider picking window. 
The price for small fruit is an important factor in this.

      It is important to point out that processors will differ in their grade
requirements, and varieties differ in their size-grade distribution, and the
rate of change of grade distribution with each day's delay of harvest. 
Varieties also differ in the quality of their large and oversize cucumbers. 
These factors affect the value of any given load.  In the Willamette Valley,
this can result in a change of $100.00 per day per acre in gross returns with
the variety Calypso and similar lines.

      Machine-harvested pickling cucumbers must be washed and cooled immed-
iately after harvest to reduce losses due to mechanical damage from the
machine and soil abrasion.  Portable washing equipment is commercially
available in 3000 and 5000 gallon capacity tanks by some of the manufacturers
of harvesting machines.

      STORAGE (Quoted from USDA Ag. Handbook #66):

      Pickling cucumbers have been successfully hydrocooled under experimental
conditions and then held 4 days at 40 F  They should be utilized immediately
after removal from cold storage.

HANDLING

      Pickling cucumbers are either hand or machine picked into large bins for
delivery to processors.  Care should be exercised in minimizing mechanical
damage and protecting loads from heat build-up to minimize spoilage and
maintain brining quality.

                    PEST CONTROL FOR PICKLING CUCUMBER

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW, TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST PEST
CONTROL HANDBOOKS, ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY, AND ARE REVISED ONLY ANNUALLY. 
BECAUSE OF CONSTANTLY CHANGING LABELS, LAWS, AND REGULATIONS, OREGON STATE
UNIVERSITY CAN ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF USE OF CHEMICALS
SUGGESTED HERE.  IN ALL CASES, READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS AND PRECAUTION-
ARY STATEMENTS ON THE SPECIFIC PESTICIDE PRODUCT LABEL.

                          USE PESTICIDES SAFELY!

Wear protective clothing and safety devices as recommended on the label. 
Bathe or shower after each use.

Read the pesticide label--even if you've used the pesticide before.  Follow
closely the instructions on the label (and any other directions you have).

Be cautious when you apply pesticides.  Know your legal responsibility as a
pesticide applicator.  You may be liable for injury or damage resulting from
pesticide use.

WEED CONTROL

     When black plastic ground mulch is not used, cultivate as often as
necessary when weeds are small.  Proper cultivation, field selection and
rotations can reduce or eliminate the need for chemical weed control.
______________________________________________________________________________

ACTIVATED CHARCOAL SEED PROTECTION

Several Pacific Northwest grass seed crops are protected from herbicide injury
with the use of activated charcoal which adsorbs and detoxifies or inactivates
the herbicide.  In vegetables, activated charcoal can be mixed with horticul-
tural grade vermiculite and applied as an anticrustant/seed protectant.  The
activated charcoal vermiculite mix is placed within the seed furrow using a
positive feed device.  Herbicides must not leach excessively or move readily
from crop roots into the plant.  Although crop safety can be enhanced, weeds
emerging from within the treated area also are protected.

Another use for activated charcoal involves seed protection from herbicides
that leach into the seed zone from excessive rainfall. Seed coatings of
activated charcoal would reduce the active concentration of herbicide at or
very near the seed during the germination process.

Activated charcoal/vermiculite mix:  Thoroughly mix 1 lb activated             
                   charcoal/ft3 of number 2 or 3 grade horticultural           
                   vermiculite.  If severe dustiness is a problem, add a       
                   small amount of water.  Apply 1 ft3 of mixture/600 ft.      
                   of seeded row or approximately 15 cu.ft/A.  Fill the        
                   seed furrow using a positive feed applicator and press      
                   with a press wheel.

WEED MANAGEMENT GENERAL STRATEGY
     
Weed management in cucurbits represents planning and integration of several
practices.  Crop rotations and, therefore, field selection containing control-
lable weeds must be achieved before planting.  Many growers use a stale
seedbed technique followed by cultivation, except in excessively wet years.
Row spacings that enhance canopy selectively controls weeds within the crop
row.  In eastern Oregon, rye windbreaks often are planted between rows and
incorporated during the last cultivation.  
______________________________________________________________________________

STALE SEEDBEDS FOR VEGETABLE PRODUCTION

Stale seedbeds are sometimes used for vegetable production when other selec-
tive weed control practices are limited or unavailable.  The concept depends
on controlling the first flush of emerged weeds before planting or emergence
of the crop followed by minimal soil disturbance which reduces subsequent weed
flushes during establishment of the crop.  Following establishment, other weed
control practices including cultivation or use of other herbicides can be
used.

1.    Prepare a seedbed, preferably 2 to 3 weeks before planting to achieve    
      maximum weed seed germination near the soil surface.  Soil temperatures  
      and moisture must be reasonable or results will be erratic.

2.    Plant the crop with minimum soil disturbance.  Otherwise, new weed seed  
      will be exposed to favorable germinating conditions.

3.    Just before or after planting but before crop emergence, treat the    
      field by flaming or with herbicide to kill all germinated or exposed    
      weeds.

Weed Treatment              Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flaming                                      

      Use liquid propane or similar fuel-burning equipment to qickly sear the
      weeds, but not consume them with flame. 
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paraquat                0.625 to 0.94 lb ai/A    
  Gramoxone Extra      
  (see remarks)      

      Restricted-use pesticide.  Do not ingest or inhale spray mist.  Wearing
      protective face shields, respirators, and clothing is advised.  Apply    
      during or after planting, but before crop emergence.  Add a nonionic
      surfactant or crop oil concentrate according to label specifications,
      taking care to avoid anionic formulations that react in the tank to form
      insoluble precipitates.  Exposed crop plants will be killed.  Do not
      apply preplant or pre-emergence to soils lacking clay minerals, such as
      peat, muck, pure sand, or artificial planting media.  (Acts as contact;
      absorbs energy produced by photosynthesis forming peroxides that disrupt 
      living cells.) 
______________________________________________________________________________

PREPLANT INCORPORATED

Weed Treatment              Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bensulide                 5 to 6 lb ai/A  
  Prefar                                    

      Apply preplant and incorporate 0.5 to 1 inch deep simultaneously or
      immediately after application by cross-disking or using a PTO rotary     
      tiller.  Sometimes the first flush of weeds must be controlled with
      cultivation before herbicide begins to control grass. Consult label for  
      planting sensitive crops within 18 months. Do not apply more than once
      every 12 months.  (Inhibits roots of seedlings).
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
bensulide +             4 to 6 lb                 
  naptalam              +                          
  Prefar + Alanap       2 to 4 lb ai/A            

      Note information above for bensulide and below for naptalam. Use lower
      rates on sandy soils.   
______________________________________________________________________________

PREEMERGENCE 

Weed Treatment              Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
naptalam                3 to 4 lb ai/A 
  Alanap                                        

      Apply immediately after seeding to moist soil and sprinkler irrigate
      with 0.5 to 1 inch water or mechanically incorporate in 1 to 1.5 inches
      soil with spiketooth harrow to place herbicide in germination zone.  Use
      lower rates on sandy soils.  Controls primarily broadleaf weeds.
      (Reverses geotropism in roots).              
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
ethalfluralin           1.12 to 1.69 lb ai/A      
  Curbit                              

      Adjust rates depending on soil texture and organic matter. Apply only as
      a postplant surface treatment before weed emergence. Activate with 0.5
      inch irrigation within 2 to 5 days or cultivate soil surface above seed.
      Crop injury may occur with excessive rainfall or irrigation or if
      seeding depth is too shallow. Do not graze, nor apply to wet or cloddy
      soils. Note replanting restrictions for sugar beets and red beets listed
      on label. (Inhibits mitosis,  primarily in shoots.)
______________________________________________________________________________


POSTEMERGENCE

Weed Treatment              Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sethoxydim              0.19 to 0.28 lb ai/A 
  Poast        

      Identify susceptible grasses and apply at optimum growth stage listed on
      the label.  Add 2 pints/A nonphytotoxic crop oil concentrate to improve
      leaf absorption.   Erratic control often occurs when grasses are stunted
      or stressed from drought, high temperatures, or low fertility. Resistant
      grasses include annual bluegrass and all fine fescues, whereas quack-
      grass can be suppressed.  Do not within 14 days of harvest, nor exceed 3
      pints/A per season.  (Inhibits fatty acid production, cell membranes,
      and new growth.)
______________________________________________________________________________

POSTEMERGENCE LAY-BY TREATMENTS

Weed Treatment              Active Ingredient Per Acre and Application Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
trifluralin             0.5 to 0.75 lb ai/A       
  Treflan                                       

      Apply as a directed spray between rows when crop has 3  to 4 true leaves
      and incorporate 2 to 3 inches deep, using rolling cultivators set to
      throw soil towards plants in the row.  Spray only 1 time per year. 
      Consult label for restrictions on planting sensitive crops within 12
      months. Possible injury may  result in cool soils and from carryover
      from repeated use without adequate rotation.  (Inhibits mitosis,
      primarily in shoots).      
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
ethalfluralin           1.12 to 1.69 lb ai/A 
  Curbit              

      Adjust rates depending on soil textures and organic matter.  Apply in
      bands between rows after planting or transplanting.  Activate with 0.5
      inch irrigation within 2 to 5 days or cultivate soil 1 to 2 inches deep. 
      Do not graze or apply to wet cloddy soils.  Note replanting restrictions
      for sugar beets and red beets listed on label.  (Inhibits mitosis,
      primarily in shoots.)
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
DCPA                    9 lb ai/A  
  Dacthal                                       

      Performs poorly in western Oregon and Washington.  Elsewhere, apply
      after plants have 4 to 5 true leaves following a cultivation and
      weeding, but before any new weeds become established.  Results are
      improved if rainfall or overhead irrigation occurs immediately after
      application.  Consult label for restrictions on planting sensitive crops
      within 8 months. (Inhibits mitosis).
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________


INSECT CONTROL

     Proper rotations and field selection can minimize problems with insects. 

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST INSECT
CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS FOR
CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

Insect and Description                  Control, Active Ingredient Per Acre
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aphids, including                           diazinon - 0.5 lb spray       
Bean aphid                                                                
Aphis fabae                                 malathion - 1.25 lb
                                                                          
Dull black plant louse that colo-           Phosdrin - 0.25 lb 
nizes during latter part of the              
season.                                     Pyrellin - 1 to 2 pt
    
Melon aphid                                 Dibrom - 1 lb                  
Aphis gossypii                     
                                            Metasystox-R - 0.5 lb         
Small plant louse, yellowish to            
dark green in color. Pale forms             endosulfan - 0.5 to 1 lb      
have dark mottling. Colonize                
plants late in the season.           NOTE:  Bees are important in cross   
                                            pollination of cucumbers.  Take 
Potato aphid                                precautions to avoid poisoning  
Macrosiphum euphorbiae                      them.                       
Green to pinkish plant louse that
colonizes plants. Transmits virus.           
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cucumber beetles                            methoxychlor - 1 to 3 lb          

Small, slender, greenish-yel-               diazinon dust - 0.5 lb
low beetles with three promi-               
nent black stripes on back. At-             malathion - 1 to 1.5 lb   
tack young plants. Larvae feed              
on roots and underground                    carbaryl - 1 lb
parts of stems.                                                          
                                            Dibrom - 1 lb
OR                                          
                                            endosulfan - 0.5 to 1 lb     
Yellowish-green, black-spotted 
beetle, common to western                   Guthion - 0.5 lb              
Oregon and Southwestern                                                   
Washington.  Damage usually                 Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb      
limited to young plants.                                                  
                                            Lannate - 0.45 to 0.9 lb     

                                            Pyrellin - 1 to 2 pt
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cutworms                                    Lannate - 0.45 to 0.9 lb           
Many species                                                              
                                            Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb
Small to large larvae that feed                                           
on foliage and stems.                       Sevin bait 5% pellets - 1.0 lb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cabbage looper                              Lannate - 0.45 to 0.9 lb    
Trichoplusia ni                                                         
                                            Dibrom - 1 to 2 lb          
Pale green larvae with white                                            
stripes. Move in looping manner.            Asana - 0.025 to 0.05 lb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grasshoppers                                Asana - 0.03 to 0.05 lb     
Different species                                                        
                                            Nosema locustae - use as     
                                            manufacturer directs         
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seed corn maggot                            Seed Treatment                
Delia platura                               Lorsban 50 SL - 1 oz ai/100 lb
                                            of seed.                      
Small legless maggot that feeds on
and destroys germinating seeds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Slugs                                       metaldehyde baits. Do not con-
                                            taminate edible plant parts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spider mites                                Kelthane 35W - 0.6 lb   Do not     
Tetranychus spp.                            feed or use EC formulations.
                                            
Tiny spiderlike animals that                malathion - 1 to 1.9 lb
feed on plant juices causing                                           
leaves to turn yellow and die.              Metasystox-R - 0.5 lb      
                                                                       
                                            Phosdrin - 0.5 lb          
                                                                       
                                            Dibrom - 1 lb              
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Garden symphylan                            Telone II or C-17
Scutigerella immaculata                                                 
Small, white, centipede-like
animals in soil.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thrips                                      diazinon - 0.5 lb spray  
                                                                     
Very small, slender insects. Pale           Dibrom - 1 lb            
green (young) to black (adults). 
Feed on leaf surfaces. Surface feed-
ing causes leaves to appear silvery.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wireworms                                   diazinon - 3 to 4 lb active 
Limonius spp.                               ingredient per acre. Broadcast
                                            granuals or emulsifiable 
Brown, jointed larvae of click              formulations evenly on the soil
beetles. Kill young plants,                 surface and incorporate into 
weaken older ones.                          the top 4-8 inches of soil.
                                            
                                            Telone II or C-17
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________


DISEASE CONTROL

     Proper rotations, field selection, sanitation, spacings, fertilizer and
irrigation practices can reduce the risk of many diseases.  Fields can be
tested for presence of harmful nematodes.  Using seed from reputable seed
sources reduces risk from seed born diseases.

     THE PESTICIDES LISTED BELOW ARE TAKEN FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST DISEASE
CONTROL HANDBOOK, AND ARE FOR INFORMATION ONLY.  CONSULT PRODUCT LABELS FOR
CURRENTLY LEGAL REGISTRATIONS, RATES AND COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS.

CUCUMBER -- ALTERNARIA  LEAF  SPOT  (Fungus Leaf Spot)

Cause: A fungus, Ulocladium consortiole. Recent work in Washington has shown
this disease does not reduce yields under Washington conditions.

Symptoms: Small tan spots which turn dark brown on maturing. Often concentric
rings may be noticed in the older spots giving them a "bull's-eye" appearance.
Coalescing spots may involve large areas of the leaf. Under Northwest condi-
tions the fruit have not been attacked by this organism.

Control:  Use one of the following sprays:

1.  Bravo 720 at 2 to 3 pt/A in water to cover.  May be applied by sprinkler
(see product label).

2.  Mancozeb at 1.8 to 2.4 lb ai/A.  Do not apply within 5 days of harvest.

3.  Maneb at 1.2 to 1.6 lb ai/A.  Do not apply within 5 days of harvest.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- ANGULAR LEAF SPOT

Cause: Pseudomonas syringae pv. lachrymans lacrymans, a bacterium. The
bacterium overwinters in diseased plant material and on the seed. It is spread
by rain, sprinkle irrigation, or on hands and clothing of workers. In recent
years the incidence of the disease has been reduced by the use of tolerant
varieties.

Symptoms: Leaves, stems, and fruits may be affected. The leaf spot is irregu-
lar in shape, angular, with a water-soaked appearance. Bacteria may ooze from
the spots in droplets which dry to a white residue.  The water-soaked area
later turns gray and dies. Often the dead tissue is torn away from the healthy
portion of the leaf leaving large irregular holes.

The water-soaked spots on the fruits are smaller and circular. Lesions are
usually superficial, but the injury may permit the entrance of soft-rot
organisms.

The affected tissue becomes white and may crack open.

Control: The following control program is a combination of those used in other
areas. 

1.  Plant resistant varieties.  Pickling varieties `Regal', `Royal',
`Pioneer', `Express', `Calypso', `Cross Country', `Frontier', `Pioneer', and
`Express' have shown tolerance under Washington and Oregon conditions. The use
of these varieties is usually sufficient under our conditions. The slicing
varieties `Victory', `Bel Aire', `Raider', `Encore', `Poinsett 76', `Slice
Nice', `Dasher II', `Turbo', `Quest', and `Sprint-N' are resistant.

2.  Stay out of wet, infected fields.

3.  Application of fixed copper spray has reduced the spread of the disease,
but copper sprays have been reported to cause some stunting and leaf chlorosis
in Oregon. Several copper materials are available.

Residues:

Arasan--considered to be a nonfood use.

Captan--seed treatment, considered a nonfood use.

Coppers--exempt.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- BACTERIAL WILT

Cause: Erwinia tracheiphila, a bacterium, which overwinters in the bodies of
the striped and 12-spotted cucumber beetles. In Oregon, the disease occurs on
cucumbers occasionally. The bacterium affects only plants belonging to the
cucumber family--cucumbers, muskmelons, pumpkins, squashes, gherkins, white
gourds, and a number of wild plants.

There is a very close relationship between the bacterium and the beetles--if
the beetles are eliminated so is the bacterium. The bacterium hibernates in
the digestive tract of a few beetles and in the spring finds its way through
the feces of the carriers to the young plant. It can enter the plant tissue
only through deep wounds such as injuries produced by feeding beetles, or
later in the season, following grasshopper invasion. The bacteria are not
carried in or on the seed.

When beetles chew on affected leaves, which they seem to prefer, their mouth
parts become contaminated with the bacteria, which are carried to the next
three or four plants on which the beetle feeds. Infection takes place only
when there is a film of water sufficient for the pathogen to reach the wound
in the inner leaf tissue.

The beetles do not migrate in rainy periods; the disease rarely is found where
the annual rainfall is over 45 inches or below 18 inches. Optimum average
daily temperatures for development of the disease are 52o to 60o F.

Symptoms: General wilting of the plant. Infection begins on one or a few
leaves which droop suddenly. The disease spreads from the foliage downward
into the petioles and stems until the plant has wilted and died. The fruit
also wilts and shrivels.

Control: Spraying or dusting to control the carrier beetles is effective.
See Pacific Northwest Insect Control Handbook.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- CURLY TOP

Cause: A virus disease spread by the beet leafhopper and surviving from year
to year in perennial weed hosts.

Symptoms: Growth is retarded and the older leaves take on a tan-yellow color.
Terminal leaves are sometimes darker than normal, and the entire plant is
stunted. The few fruits produced are small, of poor quality, and abnormally
shaped.

Control:

1.  Set out more plants than needed and remove diseased plants as soon as they
can be detected.

2.  Partial shading will discourage movement of the leafhopper vector onto the
plants, thus reducing the possibility of infection.

3.  There are no known resistant varieties.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- DAMPING-OFF

Cause: This disease is caused by the fungus Pythium ultimum, which lives in
the soil. It attacks seedlings of many different crops.

Symptoms: Seedlings may be attacked before they emerge or after they are up,
resulting in gaps and uneven stands. Young plants suddenly wilt and topple
over. Water-soaked lesions are apparent on the stems at the soil line. As the
seedlings mature, they become resistant to attack. The disease can be a
serious problem in cool, wet soils.

Control:

1.  Delay planting until soil warms so as to increase seedling growth and
emergence.

2.  Mulch soil to increase soil temperature.

3.  Plant shallow to promote quick emergence and growth.

4.  Treat seed with captan.

5.  Treat seed with Apron FL 1.5 fl oz/cwt (Pacific Northwest states only).

6.  Treat seed bed with Ridomil 2E.

Broadcast: Apply 4 to 8 pt Ridomil 2E/treated A at planting in 20 to 50 gal of
water.

Banded: Apply Ridomil 2E in a 7-inch band. Rates are calculated based on row
spacing and plant density according to the label.  

Broadcast and incorporated: Apply 4 to 8 pt of Ridomil 2E/A as a broadcast
soil application in 20 to 50 gal of water and incorporate in the top 2 inches
of the soil. If beds are used, broadcast and incorporate prior to bedding.

Seed Treatment:  Apply Anchor at 1.502/cwt seed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- GUMMY STEM BLIGHT

See Squash - Black Rot or Gummy Stem Blight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- MOSAIC

Cause: A virus disease spread by aphids and possibly cucumber beetles. The
virus overwinters in the seed of wild cucumber and in wild perennial milkweed,
ground cherry, and matrimonial vine.

Symptoms: Leaves are markedly mottled and wrinkled with yellow and green
blotches and edges cupped downward. Early season infection results in dwarfing
of the plants while later infections show the typical mosaic symptoms only on
later season growth following infection. The fruit develops raised wartlike
bumps with pale, whitish-green areas between, and has a bitter taste. Some
varieties of small, later fruits have a pale greenish-white appearance.

Control:

1.  Remove all infected vines.

2.  Remove wild cucumber vines, milkweed, and other susceptible weed hosts to
within 1,000 feet of the field if possible.

3.  Control aphids by spraying or dusting.

4.  In slicing cucumber varieties, `Niagara' is resistant. There is also some
tolerance to the virus in the following hybrids--`Burpee', `Surecrop',
`Gemini', `Marketmore', and `Sensation'. For pickling cucumbers, the varieties
`Calypso', `Picklemech', `Express', `MR-17', `SMR-18', `SMR-58', and `Pioneer'
have high tolerance and are recommended for planting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- NEMATODE (Root-Knot)

See Tomato--Nematode (Root-Knot) for a further description of cause and
symptoms.

Control: Mocap 10E (20 lb/A) or Mocap EC (1 to 1.5 qt/A) in a band 12 to 15
inches wide on the row at or just before planting.  Do not use a seed furrow
treatment.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- POWDERY MILDEW

Cause: A fungus, Erysiphe cichoracearum.

Symptoms: At first tiny, white superficial spots appear on the leaves and
stem. The spots become powdery white and expand to cover all portions of the
plant. Sometimes the mycelium becomes covered with small black spots about the
size of a pinhead. Usually the disease occurs in scattered spots in the field.

Control: A 2-year rotation out of cucurbits is helpful. The varieties `Dasher
II', `Turbo', `Calypso', `Cross Country', `Flurry', `Royal', `Regal', `Quest', 
`Cherokee', `Marketmore', and `Pioneer' are resistant to powdery mildew.
Usually the disease is not severe enough to warrant a spray program. Under
greenhouse conditions sulfur dust, Benlate, or wettable sulfur will control
the disease. CAUTION-- Sulfur can cause injury to cucumbers, especially when
temperature exceeds 85 F. Benlate may be used as a field spray.

Benlate Warning: Resistant strains of many fungus pathogens have become
troublesome when Benlate is used exclusively in a spray schedule. To reduce
the possibility of Benlate resistance, alternate Benlate sprays with sprays of
non-benzimitazole fungicides.

Field Spray -- Bayleton 50 WP or 50 DF.  Apply 2 to 4 oz/A in a minimum of 10
gal of water by ground or 5 gal of water by air.  Begin when disease first
appears and repeat at 14-day intervals.  Do not apply more than 16 oz of
Bayleton 50 WP or 50 DF per season.  Bayleton will not give control of
Sphaeroteca fuliginea. 

Residues: Benlate--0.125 to .250 lb ai/A ground application only.  Tolerance
1.0 ppm. Limitation 0.250 lb ai/A. No time limits.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- ROOT ROT

See Squash--Root Rot.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- SCAB

Cause: A fungus, Cladosporium cucumerinum, which overwinters in cucumber
debris, in cracks of greenhouses, and on the seed.

Symptoms: The fungus causes severe injury on the fruit, which can be infected
at all stages of growth, but which is particularly susceptible while young. At
first a sticky substance is exuded in drops as if the trouble were the result
of an insect puncture. Spots then gradually turn gray, become slightly sunken,
and enlarge to about  inch in diameter. The canker gradually grows darker and
the tissue collapses further into the cucumber until a pronounced cavity is
formed, which is lined with a dark-green velvety layer of the fruiting fungus.

The first symptom on foliage is the appearance of a slightly water-soaked
paler-green area between the veins, as well as on them. These spots usually
are numerous. Gradually the spots turn gray to white and become angular. The
fine veinlets in the spots may remain brown or tan and are distinct against
the white background. The dead tissue cracks, breaking away until the whole
leaf has a ragged appearance.

The spores are disseminated by insects, clothing, tools, and are blown long
distances in moist air. Host penetration takes place in less than 9 hours
following germination and visible infection in 3 days. Spore production may
occur on the fourth day.

Control: Use resistant varieties whenever available. Scab-resistant varieties
have been developed and include `Dasher II', `Raider', `Encore', `Sprint',
`Poinsett 76', `Turbo', `Regal', `Flurry', `Calypso', `Quest', `Gemini',
`Marketmore', `Pioneer', `SMR-58', and `SMR-18'. Commercial growers should
consult processors for the resistant varieties to be grown.

Spray -- 2 to 3 pt. of Bravo 720.  Bravo may be applied through overhead
irrigation.  See label for directions.  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- SEED TREATMENT

Aids in control of seed decay and damping-off.

Thiram--0.75 of 50 percent material/lb of seed.  Do not apply more than 2.25
oz actual/100 lb of seed (dry or slurry). Considered to be a nonfood use.

Captan .7 to 1.6 oz ai (slurry) or 1.5 to 2.25 oz ai (dry)/100 lb of seed.
Considered to be a nonfood use.

Apron FL 1.5 fl oz/cwt seed.  

Anchor at 1.5 fl oz/cwt seed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CUCUMBER -- WHITE MOLD

Cause: Sclerotinia sclerotiorum, a fungus.

White mold is a widespread but relatively unimportant disease of cucumbers
grown in the field, but it has caused severe losses of vines and fruit grown
in greenhouses.

Symptoms: This disease occurs primarily as a stem blight or as a fruit rot.
Older vines are most often affected. Following the development of the white
cottony mold, the stem dries and becomes withered, and the small sclerotia
appear in the rotting tissues. Cucumber fruits affected are watery, soft, and
later develop sclerotia.

Control:

1.  Rotate crops and deep plow to bury sclerotia.

2.  Remove infected vines and fruit from the field and destroy.
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________







         ---------------------------------------------------
         ---------------------------------------------------
         This  information was adapted  by the Oregon  State 
         University   Extension  Service  from  Oregon   and 
         Pacific  NW publications as well as other vegetable 
         production   guidelines  from  public  institutions 
         in  the  U.S.  and  Canada.  These  guidelines  are 
         intended  as a general guide for Oregon  commercial 
         vegetable producers.  Address comments or questions 
         to  your  County  Extension  Agent  or  Dr.  N.  S. 
         Mansour,  Department of Horticulture,  Oregon State 
         University, Corvallis, OR 9733l. 
         --------------------------------------------------- 


From sacks@notime.enet.dec.com Sun Mar 12 22:14:27 EST 1995
Article: 57980 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!jac.zko.dec.com!notime.enet.dec.com!sacks
From: sacks@notime.enet.dec.com (Gerald Sacks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seeking "Bittersweet", the plant
Date: 10 MAR 95 11:48:17
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <3jpvrg$jtm@jac.zko.dec.com>
References: <billyz-0903950929360001@ip016.lax.primenet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: NOTIME
Status: RO
X-Status: 


I'd think twice before planting bittersweet -- it's very invasive and
practically impossible to get rid of.  That said, I've seen it some
catalogs, I think those of the several companies that are owned by
Plantron Inc. (Gurney's, Henry Fields, Burgess, etc.).

Gerald Sacks			sacks@notime.enet.dec.com


From cbeyer@world.std.com Sun Mar 12 22:15:19 EST 1995
Article: 57988 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.gardens.roses
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!world!cbeyer
From: cbeyer@world.std.com (Cathy E Beyer)
Subject: Re: Rooting hormones ? Why are certain ones "for pro. use only" ???
Message-ID: <D55C6K.HMK@world.std.com>
Followup-To: rec.gardens,rec.gardens.roses
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <3jfk69$f3p@engage.sps.mot.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 00:03:56 GMT
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:57988 rec.gardens.roses:4234
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Farooq Butt (fmbutt@engage.sps.mot.com) wrote:
: I would like to know where I can get hold of the real stuff.  I would 
: like my cuttings to get the best chance possible ! [the guy 
: mentioned HORMODIN ??] 

Hormodin II is being taken off the market.  Perhaps the best ever rooting 
product is a liquid called Dip-N-Grow.  It is sometimes available at 
local nurseries, and I believe Primary Products will be carrying it 
mail-order.  The cost ranges from $9-11 for a small bottle that lasts a 
long time.  I have bought one of those childrens medicine measurers that 
consists of a syringe and a special rubber stopper.  This enables me to 
accurately measure out 1/4 teaspoon of Dip-N-Grow to mix with 2 1/2 
teaspoons of warm water.  I put the solution in a used prescription 
bottle, dip cuttings for 3 - 10 seconds, then stick them in a rooting 
medium.  Solution should be thrown away after use.

My rose study group did an experiment on rooting last summer.  Rootone 
was only a little better than using nothing at all.  Hormodin II and 
Dip-M-Grow both had very good results.  The Dip-N-Grow cuttings, however, 
had slightly stronger roots with better branching.

Primary Products has many unusual items for rose growers.  They cater to 
the rosarian who has gone overboard, like those into showing or like 
those who get so carried away that they put lights in their basement to 
have roses during winter ;)

	Primary Products
	100E Tower Office Park
	Woburn, MA   01801

Best of luck with your propagating!

Cathy in MA z/5

P.S.  Anyone in the New England area who is interested in propagation of 
roses can attend a workshop at the New England Rose Society in August.


From chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org Sun Mar 12 22:15:40 EST 1995
Article: 57993 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!nwcs!chenaya.strutton
From: chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org (Chenaya Strutton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Favorite Garden Tools
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 23:31:00 GMT
Message-ID: <9503110132078066@nwcs.org>
Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA
Distribution: world
References: <3jnu3p$deq@wizard.uark.edu> <dak2.521.2F5B2983@psu.edu>
Lines: 15        
Status: RO
X-Status: 

BG>From: bruce@resumix.portal.com (Bruce Gorham)
  >My favorite tool is something called a U-Bar.
  >Used for loosening soil in established raised
  >French Intensive type beds.

There's three sizes of these listed for sale in the Spring Territorial
Seed Company catalog on page 82. They call them "Raised Bed Diggers".

                     Territorial Seed Company
                     20 Palmer Avenue
                     Cottage Grove, OR 97424
                     U.S.A.
=Cheryl
---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Someone, please, stop me before I plant again!


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:15:55 EST 1995
Article: 57995 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Yellow Leaves on Impatients
Message-ID: <1995Mar8.170535.39904@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 8 Mar 95 17:05:35 -0600
References: <3jiqce$hli@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> <1995Mar7.193325.39844@cobra.uni.edu> <3jl520$r38@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 20
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <3jl520$r38@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>, nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca (Nadine Leenders) writes:
> klier@cobra.uni.edu wrote:
> 
> : ...Try a very light dose (ca. 1/4 recommended strength)
> : of a flowering plant fertilizer... something in the 5-10-10  range,
> : not high nitrogen.  See if the frequency of yellowing leaves is
> : reduced in the next week or so.
> 
> Yes, they are in "market packs" and in a seed starting mix.  They might
> be root bound, but until the weather improves (27 below is kind of cold)
> and I can put them out in a cold frame, they have to stay in those packs.
> 

Jiffy mix and similar soilless seed starting mixes don't have a whole
lot of nutrients in them.  Try a light fertilization, and see if things
pick up.  I sympathize on the -27o (C right?  I hope???)  If we were
lucky here, we *might* have made to +27oF today... I still have more
snow to shovel from the last storm!

Kay  klier@cobra.uni.edu


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:16:01 EST 1995
Article: 57996 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: seedlings for kids
Message-ID: <1995Mar8.171336.39906@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 8 Mar 95 17:13:36 -0600
References: <jgolden.18.000C9D9B@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 17
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <jgolden.18.000C9D9B@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil>, jgolden@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil (Joel Golden) writes:
> What's a good plant for a class of kids to sprout seeds?

What age, and what are you going to do with them?

My picks for the younger kids would be corn and common beans: fast
and cheap.  Lettuce and dwarf marigolds for kids who can handle
smaller seeds, and want something you can "do something with" (like
eat, or watch flower).  Radish is good, too, as are any of the seeds
sold for salad sprouts: mung bean, alfalfa, radish, fenugreek....

If you've got the time, and a few bucks for seed, I'd suggest
sensitive plant, Mimosa pudica (try Parks).  It's a sure-fire
attention getter...

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From sean.ohara@ucop.edu Sun Mar 12 22:16:06 EST 1995
Article: 57997 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!usenet
From: "Sean A. O'Hara" <sean.ohara@ucop.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Where's a good place to get 'Hosta's' (mail order)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 95 15:53:29 PDT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
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> Testbed (testbed@longbeach.mfg.stratus.com) wrote:
> : Anyone out there have any recomendations?
> 
> : 	please post to this group since my reader won't accept e-mail.
> 
> : 	Thanks.

This is not in Mass (as the original post requested), but if you really
want Hostas, I'd certainly get ahold of the following catalog:

Plant Delights Nursery, 9241 Sauls Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603; (919)772-4794

Their current catalog, entitled 'America Held Hosta', lists 150 different
Hostas as well as a dizzying array of other wonderful plants in its 110
pages.  The prices of the catalog is (accroding to the cover) $2000 or
10 stamps.  There is also a disclaimer on the cover: 'Warning:  The
Horticultural General has determined that opening this catalog may cause
anxiety, hysteria, and excessive drooling' - which has been all too true in
my own case!!

(As you can probably see, these folks are true plant nuts, and their
selection of plants certainly attests to this fact.  I strongly suggest that
if you have tendancies towards plant lunacy, definitely order this catalog!)
 
 H O R T U L U S   A P T U S  ('gardens', 'suited to their purpose')
 Sean A. O'Hara
 710 Jean Street, Oakland, CA  94610-1459        sean.ohara@ucop.edu
 (510) 987-0577                                     


From bob@interstate.net Sun Mar 12 22:16:13 EST 1995
Article: 57998 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!interactive.net!interstate.net!bob
From: bob@interstate.net (Bob Batson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Buffalo Grass
Date: 10 Mar 1995 17:19:33 GMT
Organization: Interstate Networking Corporation -- Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Lines: 639
Message-ID: <3jq1n5$ac1@mindcrime.interstate.net>
References: <D572vH.LHy@nntpa.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: empire.interstate.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

D416B/Dave Daulton/X4410/D/B (djd@cbddo1.cb.att.com) wrote:


: I am working on a proposal to turn some acres around my work site
: into natural plantings--to save my company some $$$s, and our
: environment some pollution.

: I am working from a proposal that was accepted at another site, in
: Naperville, Illinois.  However, that proposal uses a lot of buffalo grass,
: and from past dicussions on rec.gardens, I seem to recall that
: bufallo grass might not do well back here in Columbus, Ohio (too
: wet).

: Is that true?  If so, is there anything comparable that would work here?

I don't have an answer for you, but following's a list of published 
references to Buffalo grass
---------------------------------------------------------------------

NAL ONLINE CATALOG  - - - - - - - - - ISIS -PUBLICATIONS WITH SELECTED KEYWORDS
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                    (5)


 NAL CALL NO: DISS 70-25,561                                                   
      Author: Sorensen, Kenneth Alan, 1944-                                   
       Title: Factors influencing the biology of the buffalograss webworm,     
              Surattha indentella Kearfott, (Lepidoptera: Pyralidae) / by
              Kenneth Alan Sorensen. --                                  
   Publisher: 1970.                                                            
 Description: iv, 125 leaves ; 21 cm.                                          
        Note: Bibliography: leaves 92-94.                                      
        Note: Photocopy. Ann Arbor, Mich. : University Microfilms, 1971.       
        Note: Thesis (Ph.D.)--Kansas State University, 1970.                   
   Other Loc: DNAL DISS 70-25,561                                             
 


 
2
NAL ONLINE CATALOG  - - - - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - - - - CATALOG CARD
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                  (2/5)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 100 W99 (1) no.293                                               
      Author: Beetle, Alan A. 1913- (Alan Ackerman),                          
       Title: Buffalograss, native of the shortgrass plains / by A.A.          
              Beetle.                                                     
   Publisher: Laramie, Wyo. : University of Wyoming, Agricultural              
              Experiment Station, 1950.                                   
 Description: 31 p. : ill., map ; 21 cm.                                       
      Series: Bulletin / University of Wyoming, Agricultural Experiment       
              Station ; 293                                               
        Note: Bibliography: p. 25-31.                                          
  LC Subject: Grasses -- Wyoming.                                             
  LC Subject: Grasses -- Varieties. -- Wyoming                                
 

NAL ONLINE CATALOG  - - - - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - - - - CATALOG CARD
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                  (3/5)
3 
 NAL CALL NO: 100 K13S (1) no.400                                              
      Author: Launchbaugh, John L.                                            
       Title: Grazing reseeded pastures : buffalograss, western                
              wheatgrass, intermediate wheatgrass, on lowlands at Hays,   
              Kansas / by John L. Launchbaugh.                            
   Publisher: Manhattan, Kan. : Agricultural Experiment Station, Kansas        
              State College of Agriculture and Applied Science, 1958.     
 Description: 24, [1] p. : ill. ; 23cm.                                        
      Series: Bulletin ; 400                                            
        Note: Bibliography: p. [25].                                           
        Note: "Contribution no. 126, Fort Hays Branch, Hays, Kansas"--T.p.     
  LC Subject: Grazing -- Kansas.                                              
 
4
NAL ONLINE CATALOG  - - - - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - - - - CATALOG CARD
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                  (4/5)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 100 Ok4 (4) no.109                                               
      Author: Ahring, Robert M. 1928- (Robert Morris),                        
       Title: The management of buffalograss Buchloe dactyloides (Nutt.)       
              Engelm, for seed production in Oklahoma / Robert M. Ahring. 
   Publisher: [Stillwater, Okla.] : Oklahoma State University, Experiment      
              Station, 1964.                                              
 Description: 20 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.                                            
      Series: Technical bulletin ; no. T-109                                  
        Note: Bibliography: p. 19-20.                                          
        Note: "The research reported herein was done under Agricultural        
              Research Service Project C7-3 and Olkahoma Agricultural     
              Experiment Station Project 784"--p. 5.                      
 
5
NAL ONLINE CATALOG  - - - - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - - - - CATALOG CARD
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                  (5/5)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 100 N27 (3) no.180                                               
      Author: Weihing, John Lawson, 1921-                                     
       Title: False smut of buffalograss / John L. Weihing.                    
   Publisher: Lincoln, Neb. : University of Nebraska, College of               
              Agriculture, Agricultural Experiment Station, 1956.         
 Description: 26 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.                                            
      Series: Research bulletin / University of Nebraska, College of          
              Agriculture, Agricultural Experiment Station ; 180          
        Note: Bibliography: p. 26.                                             
        Note: "A portion of a thesis presented to the Graduate College of      
              the University of Nebraska in partial fulfillment of the    
              requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosohphy"--p. 5.
 



w/buffalograss
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - KEYWORDS SEARCHED


 1.   buffalograss                                                  32 ENTRIES

     
1
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - INDEX CARD CATALOG
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                 (1/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: SB193 F59                                                        
      Author: Mowrey, D.P.                                                     
ArticleTitle: Steer performance with continuous grazing or first-last          
              grazing on buffalograss.                                    
Source Title: Proceedings of the Forage and Grassland Conference. 1986.        
       Pages: p. 47-51.                                                        
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: steers.                                                          
 CAB Subject: performance.                                                     
 CAB Subject: grazing systems.                                                 
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: ranges.                                                          
 

  
2
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                 (2/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 64.8 C883                                                        
      Author: Horst, G.L.                                                      
ArticleTitle: Seasonal and species variation in baseline functions for         
              determining crop water stress indices in turfgrass.         
Source Title: Crop science. Sept/Oct 1989. v. 29 (5)                           
       Pages: p. 1227-1232.                                                    
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: cynodon dactylon.                                                
 CAB Subject: stenotaphrum secundatum.                                         
 CAB Subject: festuca arundinacea.                                             
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 
 
3
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                 (3/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 100 C12CAG                                                       
      Author: Wu, L.                                                           
ArticleTitle: Buffalograss as a low-maintenance turf.                          
Source Title: California agriculture - California Agricultural Experiment      
              Station. Mar/Apr 1989. v. 43 (2)                            
       Pages: p. 23-25. ill.                                                   
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: cultivars.                                                       
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 CAB Subject: improvement.                                                     
 CAB Subject: seed production.                                                 
 CAB Subject: color.                                                           
 

     
4
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                 (4/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: SB476 G7                                                         
      Author: Riordan, T.                                                      
ArticleTitle: Buffalograss.                                                    
Source Title: Grounds maintenance. Feb 1991. v. 26 (2)                         
       Pages: p. 12-14. ill., maps.                                            
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: cultural methods.                                                
 

5
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                 (5/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 64.8 C883                                                        
      Author: Engelke, M.C.                                                    
ArticleTitle: Registration of 'Prairie' buffalograss.                          
Source Title: Crop science. Nov/Dec 1990. v. 30 (6)                            
       Pages: p. 1360-1361.                                                    
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: cultivars.                                                       
 CAB Subject: registration.                                                    
 CAB Subject: agronomic characteristics.                                       
 CAB Subject: improved varieties.                                              
 CAB Subject: plant breeding.                                                  
 

6
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                 (6/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 64.8 C883                                                        
      Author: Huff, D.R.                                                       
ArticleTitle: Sex ratios and inheritance of anther and stigma color in         
              diploid buffalograss.                                       
Source Title: Crop science. Mar/Apr 1991. v. 31 (2)                            
       Pages: p. 328-332.                                                      
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: inheritance.                                                     
 CAB Subject: diploidy.                                                        
 CAB Subject: sex ratio.                                                       
 CAB Subject: sex determination.                                               
 
  
7
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                 (7/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 156.65 P69                                                       
      Author: Engelke, M.C.                                                    
ArticleTitle: Prairie buffalograss.                                            
Source Title: Plant patent - United States Patent and Trademark Office.        
              May 28, 1991. (7539)                                        
       Pages: 4 p. plates.                                                     
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 CAB Subject: cultivars.                                                       
 CAB Subject: patents.                                                         
 CAB Subject: stolons.                                                         
 


9
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                 (9/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 60.18 SO8                                                        
      Author: Wu, L.                                                           
ArticleTitle: Buffalograss turf performance and management in shade.           
Source Title: California turfgrass culture - California University,            
              Berkeley, Cooperative Extension Service. 1990. v. 40 (1/4)  
       Pages: p. 2-4.                                                          
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 CAB Subject: grasses.                                                         
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: management.                                                      
 CAB Subject: shade.                                                           
 

10
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - INDEX CARD CATALOG
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (10/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 290.9 AM32T                                                      
      Author: Hilton, R.R.                                                     
ArticleTitle: Tines for mechanically lifting plugs of buffalograss turf.       
Source Title: Transactions of the ASAE. July/Aug 1991. v. 34 (4)               
       Pages: p. 1642-1646.                                                    
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: harvesters.                                                      
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 CAB Subject: lifting.                                                         
 CAB Subject: tines.                                                           
 CAB Subject: vegetative propagation.                                          
 
      
12
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - INDEX CARD CATALOG
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (12/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: QH540 J6                                                         
      Author: McFarland, M.L.                                                  
ArticleTitle: Selective-placement burial of drilling fluids. II. Effects       
              on buffalograss and fourwing saltbush.                      
Source Title: Journal of environmental quality. Jan/Mar 1992. v. 21 (1)        
       Pages: p. 140-144.                                                      
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: atriplex canescens.                                              
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: oilfields.                                                       
 CAB Subject: waste water.                                                     
 CAB Subject: waste disposal.                                                  
 


13
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - INDEX CARD CATALOG
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (13/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 450 AM36                                                         
      Author: Huff, D.R.                                                       
ArticleTitle: Distribution and inheritance of inconstant sex forms in          
              natural populations of dioecious buffalograss (Buchloe      
              dactyloides).                                               
Source Title: American journal of botany. Feb 1992. v. 79 (2)                  
       Pages: p. 207-215.                                                      
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: sex differences.                                                 
 CAB Subject: genetic variation.                                               
 CAB Subject: geographical distribution.                                       
 


14
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (14/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: S544.3 K2K3                                                      
      Author: Leuthold, L.                                                     
ArticleTitle: Buffalograss lawns.                                              
Source Title: MF - Cooperative Extension Service, Kansas State University,     
              Manhattan. Apr 1991. (658,rev.)                            
       Pages: 4 p.                                                             
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: planting.                                                        
 CAB Subject: fertilizers.                                                     
 CAB Subject: application date.                                                
 CAB Subject: pest control.                                                    
  Geographic: kansas.                                                          
 

15
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (15/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 290.9 AM32P                                                      
      Author: Hilton, R.R.                                                     
ArticleTitle: A mechanical turf plugger for buffalograss.                      
Source Title: Paper - American Society of Agricultural Engineers. Summer       
              1990. (90-1034)                                             
       Pages: 13 p.                                                            
        Note: Paper presented at the "1990 International Summer Meeting,"      
              June 24-27, 1990, Columbus, Ohio.                           
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: transplanting.                                                   
 CAB Subject: mechanization.                                                   
 

16
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - INDEX CARD CATALOG
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (16/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 60.18 UN33                                                       
      Author: Bauer, B.                                                        
ArticleTitle: Introducing an improved native: '609' buffalograss.              
Source Title: USGA Green Section record. Jan/Feb 1992. v. 30 (1)               
       Pages: p. 20.                                                           
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 CAB Subject: golf courses.                                                    
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: nurseries.                                                       
 

18
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - INDEX CARD CATALOG
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (18/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: SB1 H6                                                           
      Author: McCarty, L.B.                                                    
ArticleTitle: Buffalograss tolerance to postemergence herbicides.              
Source Title: HortScience. Aug 1992. v. 27 (8)                                 
       Pages: p. 898-899.                                                      
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 CAB Subject: weed control.                                                    
 CAB Subject: chemical control.                                                
 CAB Subject: 2,4-d.                                                           
 CAB Subject: dicamba.                                                         
 

19
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - INDEX CARD CATALOG
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (19/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 60.18 J82                                                        
      Author: Olson, K.C.                                                      
ArticleTitle: Shortgrass range vegetation and steer growth response to         
              intensive-early stocking.                                   
Source Title: Journal of range management. Mar 1993. v. 46 (2)                 
       Pages: p. 127-132.                                                      
        Note: Includes references.                                             
 CAB Subject: steers.                                                          
 CAB Subject: grazing trials.                                                  
 CAB Subject: beef cattle.                                                     
 CAB Subject: stocking rate.                                                   
 CAB Subject: grazing systems.                                                 
 


20
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (20/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 100 T31P                                                         
      Author: Engelke, M.C.                                                    
ArticleTitle: 1991 Update to the buffalograss regional trial planted at        
              TAES-Dallas.                                                
Source Title: PR - Texas Agricultural Experiment Station. 1991. (4887)         
       Pages: p. 30-31.                                                        
        Note: In the series analytic: Texas turfgrass research--1991.          
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: variety trials.                                                  
 CAB Subject: cultivars.                                                       
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 CAB Subject: phenotypic stability.                                            
 

21
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - INDEX CARD CATALOG
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (21/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 100 T31P                                                         
      Author: Engelke, M.C.                                                    
ArticleTitle: 'Prairie' buffalograss response to selected pre- and             
              postemergence herbicides.                                   
Source Title: PR - Texas Agricultural Experiment Station. 1991. (4917)         
       Pages: p. 98-100.                                                       
        Note: In the series analytic: Texas turfgrass research--1991.          
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: herbicides.                                                      
 CAB Subject: phytotoxicity.                                                   
 CAB Subject: weed control.                                                    
 CAB Subject: application date.                                                
 

22
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (22/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 100 T31P                                                         
      Author: Engelke, M.C.                                                    
ArticleTitle: 1992 Update to the buffalograss regional trial planted at        
              TAES-Dallas.                                                
Source Title: PR - Texas Agricultural Experiment Station. Sept 1992.           
              (4981)                                                      
       Pages: p. 10-11.                                                        
        Note: In the series analytic: Texas turfgrass research--1992.          
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: variety trials.                                                  
 CAB Subject: color.                                                           
 CAB Subject: cultivars.                                                       
 


24
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (24/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 442.8 Z8                                                         
      Author: Huff, D.R.                                                       
ArticleTitle: RAPD variation within and among natural populations of           
              outcrossing buffalograss [Buchloe dactyloides (Nutt.)       
              Engelm.].                                                   
Source Title: Theoretical and applied genetics. Sept 1993. v. 86 (8)           
       Pages: p. 927-934.                                                      
        Note: Includes references                                              
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: genetic markers.                                                 
 CAB Subject: genetic variation.                                               
 CAB Subject: population genetics.                                             
 



25
Journal Article Citation- - - - - - - ISIS - - - - - - - - - INDEX CARD CATALOG
YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (25/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: SB1 H6                                                           
      Author: Fry, J.                                                          
ArticleTitle: Seeding month and seed soaking affect buffalograss               
              establishment.                                              
Source Title: HortScience : a publication of the American Society for          
              Horticultural Science. Sept 1993. v. 28 (9)                 
       Pages: p. 902-903.                                                      
        Note: Includes references                                              
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: seed treatment.                                                  
 CAB Subject: soaking.                                                         
 CAB Subject: imbibition.                                                      
 


26
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (26/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 81 SO12                                                          
      Author: Wu, L.                                                           
ArticleTitle: Identifying buffalograss [Buchloe dactyloides (Nutt.)            
              Engelm.] cultivar breeding lines using random amplified     
              polymorphic DNA (RAPD) markers.                             
Source Title: Journal of the American Society for Horticultural Science.       
              Jan 1994. v. 119 (1)                                        
       Pages: p. 126-130.                                                      
        Note: Includes references                                              
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: cultivars.                                                       
 CAB Subject: genetic analysis.                                                
 


27
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (27/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 64.8 C883                                                        
      Author: Taliaferro, C.M.                                                 
ArticleTitle: Registration of 'Bison' buffalograss.                            
Source Title: Crop science. Jan/Feb 1994. v. 34 (1)                            
       Pages: p. 304-305.                                                      
        Note: Includes references                                              
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: cultivars.                                                       
 CAB Subject: registration.                                                    
 CAB Subject: cold resistance.                                                 
 CAB Subject: winter hardiness.                                                
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 


28
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (28/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 451 T63B                                                         
      Author: Yin, T.                                                          
ArticleTitle: Effects of exogenous growth regulators and a gibberellin         
              inhibitor on sex expression and growth form in buffalograss 
              (Buchloe dactyloides), and their ecological significance.   
Source Title: Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club. Apr/June 1994. v. 121     
              (2)                                                        
       Pages: p. 170-179.                                                      
        Note: Includes references                                              
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: plant growth regulators.                                         
 CAB Subject: paclobutrazol.                                                   
 


29
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (29/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: QK867 J67                                                        
      Author: Wu, L.                                                           
ArticleTitle: Salt tolerance and salt uptake in diploid and polyploid          
              buffalograsses (Buchloe dactyloides).                       
Source Title: Journal of plant nutrition. 1994. v. 17 (11)                     
       Pages: p. 1905-1928.                                                    
        Note: Includes references                                              
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: salt tolerance.                                                  
 CAB Subject: sodium chloride.                                                 
 CAB Subject: sodium.                                                          
 CAB Subject: potassium.                                                       
 



30
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (30/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: SB1 H6                                                           
      Author: Browning, S.J. \u University of Nebraska, Lincoln, NE.           
ArticleTitle: Heritability estimates of turf-type characteristics in           
              buffalograss.                                               
Source Title: HortScience : a publication of the American Society for          
              Horticultural Science. Mar 1994. v. 29 (3)                  
       Pages: p. 204-205.                                                      
        Note: Includes references                                              
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: lawns and turf.                                                  
 CAB Subject: drought resistance.                                              
 CAB Subject: cultivars.                                                       
 


31
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (31/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 420 K13                                                          
      Author: Baxendale, F.P. \u University of Nebraska-Lincoln, Lincoln,      
              Nebraska.                                                   
ArticleTitle: Tridiscus sporoboli and Trionymus sp. (Homoptera:                
              Pseudococcidae): potential new mealybug pests of            
              buffalograss turf.                                          
Source Title: Journal of the Kansas Entomological Society. Apr 1994. v. 67     
              (2)                                                        
       Pages: p. 169-172.                                                      
        Note: Includes references                                              
 CAB Subject: buchloe dactyloides.                                             
 CAB Subject: pest resistance.                                                 
 


32
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YOU CHOSE: buffalograss                                                (32/32)
 
 NAL CALL NO: 4 Am34P                                                          
      Author: Rogler, G.A.                                                     
ArticleTitle: Relative palatabilities of grasses under cultivation on the      
              northern Great Plains.                                      
Source Title: Journal of the American Society of Agronomy. June 1944. v.       
              36 (6)                                                      
       Pages: p. 487-496.                                                      
        Note: Includes references                                              
 CAB Subject: gramineae.                                                       
 CAB Subject: palatability.                                                    
 CAB Subject: strains.                                                         
 CAB Subject: grazing intensity.                                               
 

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Batson				L 39 12 14 N  94 33 16 W
bob@interstate.net			Kansas City
bob.batson@sound.com			USDA zone 5
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus will
do exactly as it pleases.




From nancyr@cc.usu.edu Sun Mar 12 22:18:55 EST 1995
Article: 58028 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!nancyr
From: nancyr@cc.usu.edu (Nancy Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Online WWW tree tour
Message-ID: <1995Mar10.114332.44279@cc.usu.edu>
Date: 10 Mar 95 11:43:31 MDT
Organization: USU Computer Services, Academic Services Office
Lines: 12
Status: RO
X-Status: 

The Idaho State University WWW server has the campus
TreeWalk online.  There are several close up pictures
and longer-range shots of trees and bushes that are on
the campus.  The URL is:  
http://www.isu.edu/isutour/treewalk/treewalk1.html

ISU is in South Eastern Idaho, probably a zone 5 region.

Nancy
ISU Alum :-)
nancyr@cc.usu.edu



From rshiell@mcube.com Sun Mar 12 22:19:01 EST 1995
Article: 58030 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcomsv!uucp3.netcom.com!mcube.com!rshiell
Subject: Snail Soup
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rshiell@mcube.com
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 10:07:49 EST
Message-ID: <7786207284203@mcube.com>
Organization: Desert Jewel On-Line Mall
Lines: 37
Status: RO
X-Status: 


All the Winter rains in the Southwest have produced a bumper crop of
escargots in gardens.

Take advantage of the abundance and make snail soup! (not for human
consumption):

SNAIL SOUP:

In a bucket mix about a cup or two of a STRONG solution of any of the
following (to later be diluted and poured in the garden):

Pure Vinegar, Miracid, 5% Iron Solution (an acid amendment), or even
Baking Soda (if your soil is too acid already)

Harvest snails and deposit in bucket with solution.  Snails will expire.

Dilute liquid and pour out in garden.  Reserve expired snails.

Dig several shallow holes.  Divide and distribute snails into holes.
Cover holes loosely overnight with boards. The following morning, when
slugs have entered the holes to feed, backfill.



Sorry if I grossed anyone out.  I've never seen so many snails as there
are this year.  Calls for drastic countermeasures.

Richard Shiell, ASLA   Bakersfield, CA         RShiell@mcube.com

Old gardeners don't die, they just go to seed.

--
Mainframes, Minis & Micros     |     Running MajorBBS and Internet!
5630 District Blvd.   #114     |     Desert Jewel BBS & OnLine Mall
Bakersfield, CA      93313     |     Discounted Hardware & Software
LandLine  ==  800-949-1959     |     BBS == 805-397-2063 14.4 n-8-1


From LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU Sun Mar 12 22:19:09 EST 1995
Article: 58031 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!VM.TEMPLE.EDU!LEAPDJWV
From: LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: seedlings for kids
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 13:41:13 EST
Organization: Temple University
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <1735DC080S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
References: <jgolden.18.000C9D9B@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil> <1995Mar8.171336.39906@cobra.uni.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vm.temple.edu
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <1995Mar8.171336.39906@cobra.uni.edu>
klier@cobra.uni.edu writes:
 
>> What's a good plant for a class of kids to sprout seeds?
>
>What age, and what are you going to do with them?
 
Are you aware of the Grow Lab program.  It's a learning center
for the class based on gardening.  Lessons, teacher's aids and
information well prepared.  My Garden Club sponsors a number of
them in inner city as well as schools in the 'burbs with great
interest.
 
E-Mail directly if you would like more information.  It's a national
program and I'm sure there are programs near by.
 
I'll suggest a different gardening classroom project:
          Bird House gourds.
 
Plant the seeds in the spring, outside of course.  Watch them grow,
some students or others who visit the school during the summer
could make and record observations.
 
In the fall they could be harvested and allowed to cure over winter.
 
In the spring they could be decorated and hung for bird houses.
The number of different classes and courses which could be involved offers the chance to extend a learning experience well beyond just watching a seed
germinate.
I made this suggestion to a student attending an environmental educational
 
gathering.  He took it to a middle where he was student teaching and last
I heard a faculty team was considering it as an introduction to a new
nature studies program.  The question which started our discussion was
similar to "How can I use gardening as an instructional format."
 
Dave Vanderhoof
 


From sacks@notime.enet.dec.com Sun Mar 12 22:19:24 EST 1995
Article: 58034 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!jac.zko.dec.com!notime.enet.dec.com!sacks
From: sacks@notime.enet.dec.com (Gerald Sacks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Tatume (Mexican summer squash)
Date: 10 MAR 95 14:21:54
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3jq8vc$5g8@jac.zko.dec.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: NOTIME
Status: RO
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I'm seeking information on tatume, a Mexican summer squash.  It's available
from Horticultural Enterprises (P.O. Box 810082, Dallas, TX 75381-0082).
Is it a bush type or a vining type?  Will in grow in the north?

Gerald Sacks			sacks@notime.enet.dec.com


From brownjm@mi.net Sun Mar 12 22:19:33 EST 1995
Article: 58036 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!scratchy.mi.net!brownjm
From: brownjm@mi.net (Joanne  Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: WWW - Ezine featuring article of software for gardening.
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 17:07:52 GMT
Organization: Maritime Internet Services
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3jsht3$bl1@scratchy.mi.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownjm.mi.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3
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The Computer Paper, a Canadian gem for consumer-oriented 
information has a web site featuring current and back issues.  
Their January issue featured an article titled 'Gardening on 
Computer' written my Martin Waterman.  

You can check out this article as well as many other 
computer-related information by pointing your web browser to the 
following URL : http://www.wimsey.com/tcp/

Hopefully it will answer many of the questions I see in here 
about gardening software.

Best wishes,


Joanne Brown, (who is really upset at the city works crew for 
digging up a corner of her lawn this winter, Bah!)


Joanne Brown                                          Say Conductor,
Saint John, NB                                        When Do We Get To
Canada                                                 Margaritaville?
***********************************************************************


From billyfish@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:19:48 EST 1995
Article: 58039 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: billyfish@aol.com (BillyFish)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Wheel hoes/Hula hoes
Date: 11 Mar 1995 14:08:11 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 13
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3jsser$707@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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I have been watching the wheel hoe thread for some time. I remember seeing
some TV ads for "Garden Weasels," I think.  Is that what is meant by a
wheel hoe.

My favorite how for the last few years has been th Hula Hoe.  It consists
of a horizontal blade connected to the handle by some strapping.  The idea
is to have this blade travel just below the surface where it can cut the
roots of any weeds.

Are there any experts that can compare these devices and give us their
opinions?

William Buchman


From pld@fc.hp.com Sun Mar 12 22:19:52 EST 1995
Article: 58040 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hplextra!news.dtc.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!pld
From: pld@fc.hp.com (Paul Dineen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Use hot water to kill weeds?
Date: 10 Mar 1995 19:39:33 GMT
Organization: HP WRCO, Fort Collins, CO
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <3jq9tl$lbf@tadpole.fc.hp.com>
References: <1995Mar6.201614.39776@cobra.uni.edu> <D54rI7.Jpr@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
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Jeffrey S. Ertel (jse2y@darwin.clas.Virginia.EDU) wrote:
: What Kay suggests will work with some plants but not others.
: Some of the groundcovers that spread with rhizomes will not be
: able to come up through the fabrics and those that spread with
: stolons will not be able to root through it.  I don't like to
: use fabrics with groundcovers.  If you have a current weed
: problem you could use soil solarization to sterilize the area
: prior to planting the groundcover.

: Rototill the area and then cover it with clear plastic for
: about six weeks during the summer.  You need to bury the edges
: of the plastic around the edge of the bed.  With the windy
: conditions you describe, you will need to use a fairly heavy
: grade of plastic and even then you may need to replace it a
: couple of times if it rips.  I have made repairs with clear
: packing tape.

: What kind of groundcover were you thinking of using?

  I weed situation in this area *seems* to be under control.  We've
  cut holes for ~30 plants we've planted in this (950 sf) area, without
  weeds poking out much at all.  I'm concerned because weeds were
  running wild in that area before we got around to developing that
  part of the lot (relatively new construction).  I'm worried about
  The Return of the Killer Weeds if I take up the fabric and bark.
  Weeds are under pretty good control throughout the lot not what
  we have no more bare dirt areas left - maybe that was causing the
  weed infestation.  But, I still wonder how many dormant weed seeds
  are still down there.

  I'll think/ask more about the suggestions I've rcd so far, but my
  current inclination is to take up the fabric in sections and plant
  ground covers.  Since it's a large area and I have lots of other
  work to do in the yard, I might spread the task of planting these
  groundcovers over about 3 years.

  Here's what groundcovers I can remember planting in this area so far:
     o yellow & pink iceplant (like how this is dense and crowds out weeds!)
     o creeping potentilla (not dense:  quickly shoots out long stems low
       to the ground.  looks good, but not as good a weed barrier)
     o sweet woodruff (for looks, not good barrier)
     o dragon's blood sedum

  I planted this stuff last spring, and didn't buy tons of it, so it 
  currently covers a very small percentage of the area.


From down2erth@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:20:01 EST 1995
Article: 58042 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: down2erth@aol.com (Down2Erth)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: RE: NEEM
Date: 10 Mar 1995 14:48:50 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 6
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3jqaf2$jir@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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Reply-To: down2erth@aol.com (Down2Erth)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
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I am an organic landscape gardener and I'm considering using NEEM on a
serious leafminer infestation of a client's arborvitae hedge.  We've tried
all the usual cultural practices (fertiliaer, mulch, irrigation) with no
success.  I am confused because both Gardens Alive and Peaceful Valley
Farm Supply claim that it will not kill beneficial insects, yet it kills
many types of destructive insects.  This seems too good to be true.....


From down2erth@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:20:04 EST 1995
Article: 58043 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: down2erth@aol.com (Down2Erth)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Deer in my garden!!
Date: 10 Mar 1995 14:57:05 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
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I am an organic landscape gardener, and I have used Hinder with EXCELLENT
results.  One of our clients FEEDS the deer in her yard, and before we
started working for her she was only able to grow daffodils and daylilies.
 She loves flowers and wanted lots of perennials - so we planted up her
yard and spray Hinder once a week.  The deer walk through the flower beds
( we see their footprints everywhere) but they've never eaten anything! 
You can only use it above 40 degrees, so in the winter shrubs have to be
caged.
  The active ingredient is ammonium soaps of fatty acids, so it is
considered organic, but DON'T use it on anything edible.


From bob@interstate.net Sun Mar 12 22:20:07 EST 1995
Article: 58044 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!winternet.com!interstate.net!bob
From: bob@interstate.net (Bob Batson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Going NATIVE
Date: 11 Mar 1995 19:25:44 GMT
Organization: Interstate Networking Corporation -- Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3jstfo$oov@mindcrime.interstate.net>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950306215133.17564A-100000@aldus.northnet.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: empire.interstate.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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Steve Graf (graf@aldus.NorthNet.org) wrote:
: I have recently developed an interest in species azaleas of which I have 
: 2 that grow very well in my garden.  I would be interested if anyone could 
: tell me where I might purchase native "species" azaleas suitable for USDA 
: zone 4/5.  Lots of nurseries seem to have hybrids but not species azaleas :(.
: Especially great would be locations in Quebec, Vermont, or New York State.
: Thanks in advance.  Steve

Wayside Gardens sells a few. Contact them at Hodges, SC 29695-0001.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Batson				L 39 12 14 N  94 33 16 W
bob@interstate.net			Kansas City
bob.batson@sound.com			USDA zone 5
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus will
do exactly as it pleases.




From greg@news.IntNet.net Sun Mar 12 22:20:13 EST 1995
Article: 58045 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.IntNet.net!greg
From: greg@news.IntNet.net (Greg Kras)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: WWW Florist
Date: 11 Mar 1995 19:21:47 GMT
Organization: Intelligence Network Online, Inc.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <3jst8b$bk0@zeus.IntNet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aries.intnet.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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    I don't know if anyone of the people here are interested but there is a 
new flower store on the web.   Check out the web site at...

http://www.intnet.net/Floral

--
Greg K.


From racoonia@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:20:16 EST 1995
Article: 58046 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!nwlink.com!baja.pacificrim.net!ppp34.pacificrim.net!racoonia
From: Linda Copes <racoonia@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: The course we all must take?
Date: 11 Mar 1995 19:50:40 GMT
Organization: Project NatureConnect
Lines: 24
Distribution: world
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X-XXDate: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 18:56:47 GMT
Status: RO
X-Status: 


 

THE COURSE WE MUST TAKE? 

Recently, a group of people of mixed ages, occupations and nationalities participated in a free Project NatureConnect training course via email.  At the conclusion of the program an educational psychologist said: "This is the course that every civilized person will be required to take if we are to reverse our runaway problems"  He said this because he saw the profound benefits that result from learning how to deeply reconnect with nature, even in your backyard.  The process makes spirits rise and apathy su
bside.  People learn to actively participate in making their lives more worthwhile and resolving problems. 

Here's why the unique program works so well: Irrefutable studies confirm that, daily, our excessive separation from nature creates sensory and emotional stress.  It is this stress that gives birth to the insatiable wants that underlie most of our personal, social and environmental problems.  The NatureConnect course reverses this destructive process.  It devours our stress from nature disconnection by tangently reconnecting us with nature.  The connection intensifies nature's wisdom, beauty and spirit with
in us.  Our stress and wants become joy and energy, that improves our relationships at all levels.  The validity of this biologic process has been documented and is undeniable.  Anybody who has enjoyed nature knows that connecting with nature inherently rejuvenates people.

The psychologist noted that nature connected people(s) don't propagate our greed, war and environmental degradation; our crime, dependencies and medical and mental and health disorders.  He said "Similarly, this course's nature connecting activities reverse these problems.  Participants learn how to use the activities and teach others to use them.  They help nature help them form balanced relationships".  

The course is called "How To Let Earth Teach: Nature activities for wellness, spirit and deeper learning".  Its participants learn thoughtful ways to satisfy our deepest loves, wants and spirit.  They master hands-on education, counseling and mental health skills that tap the (IR(Jhigher power(IS(J found in nature(IU(Js creation process.  They become skilled in letting tangible contact with nature in people and places nurture responsibility, warm interpersonal relationships and ecological literacy.  
The refreshing 6-12 week program starts anytime.   Through its self guiding training manual, it is available independently and/or through workshops and E-mail.  Academic and continuing education credit is optionally offered through cooperating universities.  Internships and facilitator positions are available.  

Here's a sample of what people say about the course:

"The course presents an accessible, simple, enjoyable and extremely powerful way that love for all life may heal the deep wounds that we suffer."  Elisabeth Ryland, San Bernadino

"The program provides timely sound theory and well grounded experience.  In our struggle to find connectedness and meaning it allows the natural world to nurture a responsible growing edge of culture."  Bill Hammond, Director of Environmental Education, Lee County, FL

The Project NatureConnect training course is a subsidized program of the Department of Integrated Ecology at the University of Global Education, a United Nations non-governmental organization.  The course may be taken by anybody for any reason, as well as incorporated into most curriculums, degree programs and professions.  We encourage interested schools and training programs to sponsor the course or offer it as an option to their students. I am one of its supporters and I am trying to connect with people
 who want to benefit from taking the course or further its contributions to all of life. 

Thank you for your interest in this topic.  For full information, contact the course instructor, Michael J. Cohen, Ed.D. at:  MJCohen@AOL.com  or write Project NatureConnect, Box 1605, Friday Harbor, WA 98250.

Linda Copes


From rcvaiden@prairienet.org Sun Mar 12 22:20:25 EST 1995
Article: 58048 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!rcvaiden
From: rcvaiden@prairienet.org (Robert C. Vaiden)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seeking "Bittersweet", the plant
Date: 10 Mar 1995 21:46:35 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <3jqhbr$mh9@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
References: <billyz-0903950929360001@ip016.lax.primenet.com>
Reply-To: rcvaiden@prairienet.org (Robert C. Vaiden)
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org
Status: RO
X-Status: 



Yes...I remember a favorite fall activity was to go into the
country and cut a few branches of bittersweet...I've always
wanted some myself...the wild populations where I grew up
were plowed under and built over years ago.  Just last fall
I acquired 2 from a friend-he says they are endangered (??)
-at least in Illinois.  Proper name is Celastrus scandens.
They can be invasive...but they're neat plants.  You should
be aware that you need 2 plants...male and female.  (Mine came
with red and blue rubber bands...in case one dies, I know which
one to replace!!).

Bob Vaiden

In a previous article, billyz@primenet.com (BillyZee) says:

>Growing up in the Midwest, there was a plant which grew along the country
>fencerows we called Bittersweet- sorry, I don't know the botanical term.
>It is used as an autumnn decoration and has small bright orange berries
>that bloom out of a tan pod. Branches are 1-2 feet long.  I have been
>searching for plantstock of this for months to plant in Northern
>California. No luck. Does ANYBODY have any information on what this is
>really called and where I can acquire stock or seed? Thanks for any help.
>E-mail   billyz@primenet.com
>



From seremjia@it.uwp.edu Sun Mar 12 22:20:29 EST 1995
Article: 58049 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.uwp.edu!it!seremjia
From: seremjia@it.uwp.edu (Peggy Seremjian)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Date: 11 Mar 1995 20:07:02 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
Lines: 8
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jsvt6$ktq@cs.uwp.edu>
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: > I try to garden on my leach field and would like to 
: > plant perennials that are agressive and annuals that
: > freely self sow. Also, I don't want to water the garden


Mint seems to be pretty invasive. Boltonia is pretty and multiplies quickly.

Peg


From bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 12 22:20:43 EST 1995
Article: 58055 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bs812
From: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Message-ID: <D5Aor4.s4@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: bs812@freenet2.carleton.ca (Janet Malowany)
Reply-To: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3jsvt6$ktq@cs.uwp.edu> <3jie0d$7ss@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <794659950snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 21:23:28 GMT
Lines: 24
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In a previous posting, Peggy Seremjian (seremjia@it.uwp.edu) writes:
> : > I try to garden on my leach field and would like to 
> : > plant perennials that are agressive and annuals that
> : > freely self sow. Also, I don't want to water the garden
> 
> 
> Mint seems to be pretty invasive. Boltonia is pretty and multiplies quickly.
> 
> Peg

I think Johnny Pop-Ups are really invasive.  Someone said California
Poppies self sow themselves.  If you like, you could try Mint or Catnip,
they both take over like weeds!  Well, the catnip will take over if you
don't have enough cats! :)

Janet



--
"Horse, thou art truly a creature without equal, for thou fliest
without wings and conquerest without sword."
						-The Koran


From garrett@execpc.com Sun Mar 12 22:20:57 EST 1995
Article: 58062 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!news.alpha.net!usenet
From: Garrett Keel <garrett@execpc.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW - Ezine featuring article of software for gardening.
Date: 11 Mar 1995 23:30:51 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net -- Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <3jtbrb$f1v@homer.alpha.net>
References: <3jsht3$bl1@scratchy.mi.net>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Go directly to the referenced page via the following 
URL:  http://www.wimsey.com/tcp/Jan95/Gardening.html



From diveanddig@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:21:18 EST 1995
Article: 58074 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: diveanddig@aol.com (Diveanddig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Date: 11 Mar 1995 19:52:52 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Reply-To: diveanddig@aol.com (Diveanddig)
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Status: RO
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Try Chinese Lantern.


From plantone@iquest.net Sun Mar 12 22:21:29 EST 1995
Article: 58079 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!dorite!news
From: plantone@iquest.net (Stan)
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Message-ID: <D5A47A.E0B@dorite.use.com>
Sender: news@dorite.use.com (News Admin)
Organization: IQuest Network Services
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6
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Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 13:59:34 GMT
Lines: 10
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X-Status: 

In article <3js5c4$ak6@shore.shore.net>, wbw@shore.net (William B. Warren) says:

>        Does anyone here make their own nutrient solutions? If so, please 
>let me know, my last attempt at a homemade solution was quite a failure...

Will,

i have lots of written literature on rolling your own nutrients, although
i do not myself (the cost of pre-made is worth the time saved for me).  if
you are interested email to : plantone@iquest.net


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 12 22:21:33 EST 1995
Article: 58081 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Compost piles
Date: 12 Mar 1995 02:31:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 26
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jtmes$ags@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc7-05.ix.netcom.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

A compost pile is a wonderful way of turning organic waste
into fertilizer.  There are a lot of different ways to compost, 
depending upon how much time and effort you are willing to
put into the project.  I am, personally, a member of the "let
it sit and rot" school; but, then, I have the room in my yard
for three large compost bins.

The basic technique is to take any sort of organic waste --
chipped-up wood, leaves, grass clippings, vegetable peels,
newspapers, etc. and pile them together in one spot.  Keep
the pile moist, but not wet, and put it somewhere that it will
get sun.  Bacterial and insect action will rapidly biodegrade
all of the material in the pile into compost.  You can accelerate
this process by turning the pile to mix the ingredients on a
regular basis; and by adding a biological activator -- active
compost, commercial bio-activators, a spade-full of compost
from an already active pile, or -- my favorite (and cheap!) --
a package of yeast.

The end result is a dark, crumbly material that is excellent
for amending soil.

Chris Owens

>
>can anybody tell me anything about composite piles?


From amichael@pond.com Sun Mar 12 22:22:24 EST 1995
Article: 58112 of rec.gardens
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From: amichael@pond.com (Tony Michael)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Landscape Design on Computer?
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 04:32:58 GMT
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Hi,

I am new to this news group and new to (serious) gardening.  One thing I have 
found as I try to learn about what I might want to plant in my flower beds 
is... there are a lot of different flowers, all with different reqirement for 
best growth.

I am look for a starting point.  I need visual feedback.  I am wondering if 
there exists a computer package that given certain information about the  
flower bed (demensions(length, width, height, contour), relations to 
shrubs/trees in bed, degree on sun (shade, sun/shade, shade), geographical 
location, etc., would suggest and display graphically different planting 
schemes.  The most frustrating thing for me is not knowing what it will look 
like when the plants grow to maturity...  not knowing if combination of plants 
will grow to tall for the area or to small.  With visual aid I can try "if 
then" games on the computer and not wait until the flowers are grown and try 
again next year.  Any suggestions are appreciated.

Tony



From jerry_l_young@oakqm3.sps.mot.com Sun Mar 12 22:22:35 EST 1995
Article: 58118 of rec.gardens
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From: Jerry Young <jerry_l_young@oakqm3.sps.mot.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,sci.geo.meteorology,austin.talk
Subject: Re: New Sunset Western Garden Book; Zone for Austin, TX help?
Date: 9 Mar 1995 21:26:14 GMT
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In article <3jna5f$j0n@giga.bga.com> Dewey Coffman, dewey@stonelake
writes:
>I guess I'm confused as to what you are really asking here. We are
definately
>ZONE 8, but a damned HUMID zone 8. Ted Fisher talks about our Zone
occaisionally
>in his newspaper column, but maybe I misunderstood your question.

The Sunset Western garden Guide is an extremely useful plant
encylcopedia, and they break the zones down into micorclimatic regions,
and none of them exactly match out climate here. There are issued like
marine influece, humidity, avergae highs and lows, that tell you lots
more than the USDA zones. I think the information about zones is useful,
but we can't really say that we are in zone 3 or whatever. For example we
have wetter winters and springs than a lot of the similar california
zones, or we may not have the kind of nighttime cooling that otherwise
similar zones might (so, no ceanothus). 

Sure wish they would exapnd to cover our region,. Regardless, the Sunset
Western Garden Guide may be the garden book we use most.

Jerry


From cev@clam.rutgers.edu Sun Mar 12 22:22:37 EST 1995
Article: 58119 of rec.gardens
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From: cev@clam.rutgers.edu (Cara Vandy)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: hyacinth: what to do after bloom is gone?
Date: 9 Mar 1995 17:13:31 -0500
Organization: Rutgers University
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References: <1995Mar3.103327.1@carleton.edu> <3j7oq3$g3g@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3jf1lm$9vi@shore.shore.net> <1995Mar6.115933.39734@cobra.uni.edu>
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klier@cobra.uni.edu writes:

Someone actually took the time to watch a hyacinth's bloom size over four 
years?  Come on, how big a blossom do we really need ?  I've planted the 
forced flowers of Easter outside and they've done fine.  I love the smell 
of hyacinths, but they are freaky looking - a smaller flower blends in 
better with the average garden anyway.  Why throw the bulb away if adding 
it to the yard will produce another flower, or, at worst, fertilizer ?  
		CEV



>In article <3jf1lm$9vi@shore.shore.net>, jmh@shore.net (Joann M. Hnat) writes:

>> I have a question -- I've read that once you force a bulb to bloom 
>> indoors, it won't bloom indoors again, but if you plant it outside, it 
>> should bloom again.  The explanation I've read of this is that the indoor 
>> plant doesn't get enough sun to make enough food for the plant to bloom 
>> indoors the next year.

>Right.
>> 
>> I don't understand this, though.  If I force a bulb, then allow the 
>> foliage to wither naturally before I discard it, I end up with a bulb 
>> ready to plant.  Why should it make a difference whether I plant it 
>> indoors or out?  It's the same bulb, and it already has whatever 
>> nutrients it's going to use for the next year's flowering, and it 
>> wouldn't be getting anything from the sun once the foliage withered and 
>> was discarded, anyway.

>You end up with a bulb, yes, but the bulb hasn't the nutrients/energy
>to allocate much to flower production.  And flowers are formed before
>the bulb goes dormant.  Since even the sunniest window is darker than
>outdoors, there isn't sufficient photosynthate to make big flowers.
>Yes, you may get a smaller flower the next year.  This will further
>exhaust the bulb if you grow it indoors again.   More likely, if you
>grow it outdoors, it won't bloom the second year after forcing, but
>put up a flower the next year-- usually of smaller size than the
>flowers you got when you bought it for forcing.

>If you feel morally obliged to save forced bulbs,sink them in the soil
>as soon as possible.  That way your bulbs can be getting as much
>sunlight as possible.  Don't wait until the foliage dies back.

>Kay Klier   klier@cobra.uni.edu (where we're supposed to get 3-5" snow
>today)



From bruce@resumix.portal.com Sun Mar 12 22:22:39 EST 1995
Article: 58120 of rec.gardens
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From: bruce@resumix.portal.com (Bruce Gorham)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Favorite Garden Tools
Date: 9 Mar 1995 22:05:45 GMT
Organization: Resumix, Inc., Santa Clara, CA
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My favorite tool is something called a U-Bar.
Used for loosening soil in established raised 
French Intensive type beds.

It's a large iron and wood tool something like 
a garden fork. Mine is 32" wide and 66" tall. 
It has (2) 48" shovel handles, a 32" wide crossbar
to stand on, and (8) 16" tines. Looks Kinda Like This:

	|           |
        | <Handles> |
        |           |
        |           |
        |           |
        |           |
        |           |
        |           |
        |  Stand    |
        |   Here    |
        |-----------|
        | | | | | | |
 Tines  | | | | | | | 

 
Stick the tines on top of the area you want to
loosen. Then stand on the crossbar, forcing
the U-Bar as deep as it will go into the soil.
Then move the handles back and forth. Works great.
I welded this one myself. I think someone still 
manufactures them, but I'm not sure.

Bruce 




From mwalker@iglou.iglou.com Sun Mar 12 22:22:57 EST 1995
Article: 58132 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: mwalker@iglou.iglou.com (Mark Walker)
Subject: SEED PROBLEMS            
Message-ID: <D574y5.42x@iglou.com>
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 On 03-06-95 willid2@rpi.edu wrote to ALL... 
 
 w > Some of my new sprouts are also getting leggy. I realize that the legginess 
 w > was probably the result of too little light and also maybe too much heat. I 
 w > don't have a heat mat, but they were very close to a radiator for most of 
 w > the day. I can't afford a special light, and the plants were in a 
 w > North-facing window. 
 
You don't need a "special" growing light (or at least I never have). I just 
buy a two bulb florescent fixture and regular bulbs for them. I put one 
piece of clothesline hooked to each and then tie another section in the middle 
of that so I can adjust the height as the plants grow. Keep the bulbs about 
2 inches away from the plants. The only time I had any problem is when I 
some tomato plants too early and they did get a little leggy. But I just pulled 
the lower leaves and buried them fairly horizontal to the top of the soil 
other than a few top leaves. They grew just fine. Good luck, but you really 
don't need to spend a bunch of money to start your own plants. 
 
Mark 
Mwalker@iglou.com 
 
... OFFLINE 1.34 



From br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Sun Mar 12 22:23:00 EST 1995
Article: 58133 of rec.gardens
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From: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Flaming Compost!
Date: 9 Mar 1995 23:54:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <3jo4fo$10s@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
References: <7770-313778003@mcube.com> <19950301163808.Gordon.Depew@gdepew.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> <3jkv2b$b5@eccdb1.pms.ford.com> <3jnn11$oen@eccdb1.pms.ford.com>
Reply-To: br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col)
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In a previous article, BGREVEME@etcv01.eld.ford.com (Bryce Grevemeyer) says:

>amajorov@id.net wrote:
>>
>> There is another possibility. The bacterial action could give off a
>> substance which oxidizes readily. Somewhat similar to the reaction
>> that occurs when a turpentine-soaked rag ignites. Whaddya think?
>> > 
>> Allen
>
>
>Well, Allen one flammable substance that is associated with decaying 
>material is methane.  There are probably other gases and materials
>given off.  I don't know what the ignition temperature of Methane is.

The auto-ignition point of methane is a few hundred degrees.  HOWEVER--
even the most minute electrical spark--such as those produced by static
electrical build ups between the particles of compost will easily ignite
an air/methane mixture.  All it takes is enough methane, air and the tiniest
spark within or on the surface of the pile and whoosh; there goes the barn.

Will o' the wisp--spontaneous methane flares in swamps- is fairly
common, so flaming compost is far from out of the question.


J. Del Col
-- 
Jeff Del Col   * "Sleeplessness is like metaphysics.
A-B College    *  Be there."
Philippi, WV   * 
               * ----Charles Simic----


From mark@isdn-vertigo.corp.sgi.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:01 EST 1995
Article: 58134 of rec.gardens
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From: mark@isdn-vertigo.corp.sgi.com (Mark Belanger)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds,rec.gardens,rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Introducing Pete's *New* Pond Page
Date: 12 Mar 1995 08:52:11 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
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In article <1995Mar8.223718.15819@integrity.uucp>, ronp@mpd.tandem.com (Ron
Perez) writes:

|> Is anyone else having trouble reaching this site?  Is it restricted
|> to SGI employees only?  Let me know, it sounds like a great home-page.

No, it's just a really finicky machine.

Try again.  He has some great pictures.


From ssim@netaccess.on.ca Sun Mar 12 22:23:03 EST 1995
Article: 58135 of rec.gardens
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From: ssim@netaccess.on.ca (Sheila Sim)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: blue spruce leader
Date: 11 Mar 1995 11:08:19 -0500
Organization: NetAccess Systems Inc., Hamilton, Ontario
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Hi!  I planted a blue spruce a year ago last summer (here in soon to be 
spring S. Ontario!).  It appears to be shooting up a second leader branch 
from near the base which I hadn't noticed until later this past summer.  
Something tells me that'll confuse the hell out of the tree's growing 
pattern, so, the question is ... should I cut it out?  If so, do I need 
to protect the wound?  and when should I do it?  I'm always VERY nervous 
about any pruning, let alone a 2.5 foot branch!  So any advice would most 
MOST welcome.  

Thanks,
Sheila


From linda@annie.wellesley.edu Sun Mar 12 22:23:04 EST 1995
Article: 58136 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: linda@annie.wellesley.edu (Linda M. French)
Subject: Re:  What to do w/ NE side of house?
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.232519.24278@olaf.wellesley.edu>
Sender: news@olaf.wellesley.edu (USENET News System)
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  theod@aol.com (Theo D) wrote:

>Hello all. An amatuer gardener/landscaper here seeking assistance.

>I've got a patch of land, approx. 7x12 ft, on the NE side of my home
that
>needs sprucing up.

>I'm in zone 4-5, and would like to plant a mix of evergreen and
deciduous
>shrubs that grow to approx. 5' high. I was thinking of viburnum and some
>type of yew - but I'm not sure about compatability of the 2.

>I'd like some opinions from the experienced out there - What successes
>have you had with north facing plantings?

I made a really nice north-side path, almost by accident, in my old
garden.  The side next to the house had several "Nikko Blue" hydrangeas,
although now I would use lacecaps.  For perennials, I used aruncus
(goatsbeard)--looks like a giant astilbe 5' tall!, hostas of all colors,
astilbes, alchemilla (lady's mantle), and a low edging boxwood.  A
clematis "Nelly Moser" that was stuck in the ground temporarily decided
there was enough light and prospered.  It was really quite lovely!  I
have checked the zone information and most of these are claimed to be
hardy to zone 4.  Viburnums are wonderful plants--let us know what you 
decide to do.

Linda French
Westwood, MA
zone 6



From themaxer@infinet.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:05 EST 1995
Article: 58137 of rec.gardens
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From: themaxer@infinet.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Moles, I think...
Date: 10 Mar 1995 00:16:33 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
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I think I have a problem with moles. My yard looks like it has a bad case of acne. 
There are mounds of dirt all over the place. There are however no clear signs of 
holes. It just looks like the dirt was piled up. The ground is very soft and hollow 
under the mounds. What is the best and easiest way to get id of my new friends. 
HELP!
Thanks,
Ed 
themaxer@infinet.com



From kuhn@pa881a.inland.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:06 EST 1995
Article: 58138 of rec.gardens
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Tiller recommendations wanted
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.173443.1@pa881a.inland.com>
From: kuhn@pa881a.inland.com
Date: 9 Mar 95 17:34:43 CDT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN
Nntp-Posting-Host: pa881a
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I would like some feedback on different company/models of rototillers.  
I am considering purchasing a tiller this year and was wondering if anyone
could recommend or not recommend certain models.  I have info on Troy-Bilts
but they are out of my price range.  I would like some info on others like
Sears, MTD, Weed Eater, etc.


Thanks

John Kuhn


From kuhn@pa881a.inland.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:08 EST 1995
Article: 58139 of rec.gardens
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Are wheel hoes worth while?
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.174207.1@pa881a.inland.com>
From: kuhn@pa881a.inland.com
Date: 9 Mar 95 17:42:07 CDT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN
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I would like some feedback on wheel hoes.  How well do they work?  Are they
difficult to use?  Are they worth the money & energy needed to purchase and
use one?  Are there any specific models that you can recommend?

I am considering purchasing a tiller and was wondering if using a combination
of a wheel hoe and a mini tiller would fill my needs.  My garden is between
1/4 and 1/2 acre and the soil is fairly soft (no hard clay).  Any comments
recommendations will be appreciated.


Thanks

John Kuhn


From accord@ibm.net Sun Mar 12 22:23:09 EST 1995
Article: 58140 of rec.gardens
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From: accord@ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Alberta gardens
Date: 11 Mar 1995 21:59:34 GMT
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <3jt6g6$gi4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
References: <3ja2va$qlu@news.sas.ab.ca>
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In <3ja2va$qlu@news.sas.ab.ca>, tedarmst@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () writes:
>I have retired and am looking to upgrade my garden this year.  We have a 
>short hot growing season here in Alberta.  Are there any gardeners in 
>similar hot/cold zones where I could ask a question and receive advice.  I am 
>quite a novice apart from cutting grass and planting the occasional bedding 
>plant.  
>Perhaps there are books the more experienced gardener could 
>recommend.  Hope you can help me...I feel spring in the air already 
>despite the fact the temperature this morning is minus 20 degrees Centigrade!
>
>Hi Ted!  There are a series of books put out about gardening in the Prairies here
in Alberta that are excellent.  The titles include "Perennials for the Prairies", 
"Annuals for the Prairies" and "Woody Ornamentals for the Prairies".  You can
pick these up at most book stores. In addition, the U of A puts out a home
gardening course which includes a text book also available at most bookstores.
It also has a great deal of useful info ranging from turf to veggies to fruit trees,
etc.      

There used to be a help line anyone in Alta could call at the Alberta Horticultural
Centre (Alberta Agriculture), but funding cuts saw its demise. However, there
are a number of good souls there that would likely help, as there are as the
Muttart Conservatory in Edmonton, etc. 

If I can be of help, please feel free to email me. I am not a horticulturalist but I
am a Master Gardener and have lots of books...

Any other Alta gardeners out there waiting with baited breath for spring????

Dawn Campbell, St. Albert, AB, Canada


From accord@ibm.net Sun Mar 12 22:23:10 EST 1995
Article: 58141 of rec.gardens
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From: accord@ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Help! gophers? moles?
Date: 11 Mar 1995 22:23:40 GMT
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <3jt7tc$gi4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
References: <3jf4f4$qbd@martha.utk.edu>
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In <3jf4f4$qbd@martha.utk.edu>, uther@martha.utcc.utk.edu () writes:
>--------
>
>i hope someone out there in cyberspace can help me.  last summer i bought a
>new house.  this fall i planted several hundred bulbs so i've been looking
>forward to spring.  spring is here (here is knoxville, tn, usa) and several
>(but less than i had expected) things were starting to come up - and a few
>to bloom - when disaster struck... the new shoots were eaten below ground
>level!  just a few chewed shoots left in a small hole.  the holes range in
>size from around an inch to two or three inches in diameter.  there are lots
>of mounds in the affected areas.  
>
>
Hi there! They could be pocket gophers or moles. If they are you will see soft
mounds of dirt where they have dug their tunnels. Just plain ole gophers leave
their holes exposed. We had a similar experience on our acreage. I tried traps and
water...nothing worked. So I got mean and vicious, and laid out several smoke
bombs (woodchuck bombs) at the same time in various locations. If there are 
mounds, take a piece of dowling or a garden stake and poke around til you find
the opening. Light the smoke bomb and place it upside down in the hole, quickly
covering it over with a thick layer of dirt. These didn't work using one or two at
a time...several were required. And the little bu..ers never came back.  I also 
noticed they seem to dislike aromatic plants such as geraniums and petunias. Areas
where I had planted such plants never were touched. Totally unscientific finding,
but if it works...

Good luck getting rid of your varmints!

Dawn Campbell, Edmonton, AB


From accord@ibm.net Sun Mar 12 22:23:12 EST 1995
Article: 58142 of rec.gardens
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From: accord@ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Is "Roundup" Safe Way To Kill A Lawn
Date: 11 Mar 1995 22:35:12 GMT
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In <wdill-0603951752220001@ip067.lax.primenet.com>, wdill@Primenet.com (Bill Dill) writes:
>I got an estimate from a a landscaper for replacing my lawn.  I was
>surprised to learn that the major part of the job was killing and removing
>the old lawn.  He said that he would use a product called "Roundup".  I
>have 2 children so I'm concerned about the possible health problems I've
>heard associated with using herbicides and pesticides.  
>
>Can anyone tell me anything about Roundup?  Is there any truly safe way to
>kill off a lawn?
>
Glyphosate is the active ingredient in Roundup. It is supposed to be a relatively
safe herbicide since it does not leach. It does, however, kill anything it touches
and because it is systemic, it can cause alot of damage from drift. I have had alot
of questions about glyphosate's supposed safety. Lots of farmers use it in their
veggie gardens to kill quackgrass, etc., prior to seeding. I used it in a couple of
very small flower beds that had nothing in them, and noticed the next few years
that seed germination seemed to be reduced. I have talked to other people who
have felt their gardens didn't perform as well after having used glyphosate. 
The experts say because it binds so tightly to the soil it is safe, but I wonder... 
In any case, the dead plant matter killled with glyphosate should not be tilled into
your soil. It is this plant matter that contains the highest residue. 

So in summary I would watch out. While it doesn't leech, it is a potent chemical
and there are some serious unanswered questions about it. It has some very good
uses, but, why does he have to kill off your lawn first? Usually, tilling the old
lawn is more than sufficient. Oftentimes, the soil needs amending. There will be
a significant hazard to any trees or plants in your yard as well as those of any
neighbours. I would get quotes from a few other landscapers. The proposal you
have received sounds unduly drastic.

Good luck!

Dawn Campbell, Edmonton, AB




From accord@ibm.net Sun Mar 12 22:23:14 EST 1995
Article: 58143 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsgate.advantis.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news
From: accord@ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Date: 11 Mar 1995 22:42:17 GMT
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3jt909$gi4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In <3jie0d$7ss@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, PDietz@ix.netcom.com (Pat Dietz) writes:
>I try to garden on my leach field and would like to 
>plant perennials that are agressive and annuals that
>freely self sow. Also, I don't want to water the garden
>
Try Golden Marguerite--it's a bright yellow daisy perennial that is relatively
short-lived (about 4 years) that self-sows with a vengeance! It blooms in our
area from June to Sept (Zone 3/4) and provides a very showy yellow wall of
flowers that are also excellent for cutting.  Blanket flower is also a good one
(gaillardia) and there are several varities short and tall. Most are yellow and
burgundy mixed. They are very easy to sow, and thrive in hot dry conditions.

Dawn Campbell, Edmonton, AB


From accord@ibm.net Sun Mar 12 22:23:15 EST 1995
Article: 58144 of rec.gardens
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From: accord@ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: vegetable plants for containers
Date: 11 Mar 1995 22:52:08 GMT
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3jt9io$gi4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In <3jn1r6$4au@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lexloci1@aol.com (LEX LOCI 1) writes:
>Can anyone give me some good varieties of
>vegetables(tomatoes,greens,herbs,spinach) that will grow well in
>containers in an urban garden,specifically Philadelphia?
If you can get a hold of a book called "Edible Landscaping", it will help you out
with info on varieties as well as some neat ideas for container gardening with
veggies.

Dawn Campbell


From tdebraya@awinc.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:17 EST 1995
Article: 58145 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!netnet2.netnet.net!awinc.com!usenet
From: tdebraya@awinc.com (Tom Debrayanna)
Newsgroups: news.config,news.groups,misc.consumers,misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Propose new group: alt.living.tightwad
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 22:36:23 PST
Organization: A & W Internet Inc.
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <3ju4a8$ndc@kelowna.awinc.com>
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In article <3jooot$7sp@news1.best.com>, frugal@best.com says...
>Also, if this group would 
: interest you, please post a response saying so.  
Ya, I think it is a good idea.....I'll follow it and add what I can..



From buktop@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:18 EST 1995
Article: 58146 of rec.gardens
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From: buktop@aol.com (BUKTOP)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Aug/Sept PERENNIALS
Date: 9 Mar 1995 19:33:15 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I am looking for some perennials that would do well in one half day
afternoon sun, would be about three feet tall and red or bright pink in
color that would do well in Illinois in clay soil and bloom for a good
part of Aug. and Sept.  I have thought of Firefly Phlox or perhaps some
Cleome which is not a perennial but booms at this time.  My garden really
looks too green in Aug. and Sept. and I need to liven up the color.
Any suggestions?


From apowell@u.washington.edu Sun Mar 12 22:23:20 EST 1995
Article: 58147 of rec.gardens
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From: apowell@bambam.u.washington.edu (Andrea Powell)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Empty Seed Envelopes?
Date: 10 Mar 1995 00:35:46 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Tacoma
Lines: 1
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jo6t2$e07@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
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Office supply stores have small envelopes designed for keys.  These are about 2" wide by about 3" long and work great for little seeds.


From djd@cbddo1.cb.att.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:21 EST 1995
Article: 58148 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: djd@cbddo1.cb.att.com (D416B/Dave Daulton/X4410/D/B)
Subject: Buffalo Grass
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I am working on a proposal to turn some acres around my work site
into natural plantings--to save my company some $$$s, and our
environment some pollution.

I am working from a proposal that was accepted at another site, in
Naperville, Illinois.  However, that proposal uses a lot of buffalo grass,
and from past dicussions on rec.gardens, I seem to recall that
bufallo grass might not do well back here in Columbus, Ohio (too
wet).

Is that true?  If so, is there anything comparable that would work here?

Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio



From djd@cbddo1.cb.att.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:24 EST 1995
Article: 58149 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: djd@cbddo1.cb.att.com (D416B/Dave Daulton/X4410/D/B)
Subject: Re: Where's a good place to get 'Hosta's' (mail order)
Message-ID: <D574s4.MIt@nntpa.cb.att.com>
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A good mail order source for hostas is Handy Hatfields, in Circleville,
Ohio.  I don't have his address, but his number is (614) 474-5719.
I believe his catlog is $3.

He has always given me good-sized divisions, and his selection is
extensive, ranging from cheapies, to $300 specimens.  I buy the cheapies,
although I did splurge and spend (I think it was) $28 on Regal Splendor--which
resembles its name.  It is my favorite hosta.

I espcially like shopping at his gardens in person, although I
always feel rather like a vandal, since his stock beds are incorporated into
his landscape, so what I buy comes straight out of his well arranged
plantings.

Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio


From kpwitman@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:26 EST 1995
Article: 58150 of rec.gardens
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From: kpwitman@aol.com (KPWitman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: morning glory foliage
Date: 9 Mar 1995 22:33:41 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I know that morning glory is very easily invasive, but last summer (in
Zone 7) the foliage had devoured an entire corner of the garden (full sun)
and the wagon wheel designed to support the vine had disappeared, and by
August 1 there wasn't a single flower.  I got disgusted too quickly and
ripped it out.  Should I have waited?  Does it really bloom that late in
the summer?  (Can't remember the cultivar: is that likely the problem?) 
Thanks     -Kim Witman


From fletcher@prairienet.org Sun Mar 12 22:23:27 EST 1995
Article: 58151 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the la
Date: 12 Mar 1995 10:42:01 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
Lines: 9
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Snow crocuses.  Hey, this is Zone 5, whaddaya expect?  We take what we 
can get!

Karen Fletcher                                     fletcher@prairienet.org
==========================================================================
The Garden Gate            http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm
The Garden Gate at SunSITE  http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm
The Garden Spider's Web    http://mirror.wwa.com/mirror/garden/spdrsweb.htm



From fletcher@prairienet.org Sun Mar 12 22:23:29 EST 1995
Article: 58152 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: address/phone # for Gardens Alive
Date: 12 Mar 1995 10:52:35 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
Lines: 20
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Keisha O'Banion (obaniokm@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu) wrote:
: Hi everyone,
: I've seen lots of folks mention Gardens Alive as a good source for pest
: control items.  Would someone please post the address and phone # ?

     Garden's Alive 
     Hyw. 48, P.O. Box 149 
     Sunman, IN 47041 
     Catalog: Free 
     812-623-3800 
     Offerings: tools, equipment, IPM supplies, beneficial insects 
     Comments: fully illustrated catalog 


Karen Fletcher                                     fletcher@prairienet.org
==========================================================================
The Garden Gate            http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm
The Garden Gate at SunSITE  http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm
The Garden Spider's Web    http://mirror.wwa.com/mirror/garden/spdrsweb.htm



From jgtusciu@mtu.edu Sun Mar 12 22:23:30 EST 1995
Article: 58153 of rec.gardens
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From: jgtusciu@mtu.edu (John Tusciuk)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Trees from the seeds??
Date: 9 Mar 1995 23:07:12 -0500
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <3joj9g$phg@werner.cs.mtu.edu>
References: <D579s7.7vK@odin.corp.sgi.com>
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Bill Weaver (bweaver@joshua.corp.sgi.com) wrote:

: I have been trying, unsuccessfully to start various fruit trees from the
: seeds of their fruit.

You might want to mention what kinds of fruit you are trying to start,
but realize that while you may get nice trees, the fruit probably
won't be quite what you started with.  Most fruit trees are heavily
hybridized and propagated vegetatively.  If you are, for example,
starting apples from seed you are likely to get fruit that is quite
small and perhaps even unappetizing.  With that warning...

Many fruit seeds have better germination if cold stratified (kept in
moist sand or peat in the refrigerator for a couple of months).  I
know apples and pears in particular are this way.  If you are trying
to start a stone fruit (peach, plum, cherry) you will want to file the
hard seed coat down a ways to allow moisture in.  As long as you don't
damage the inner seed it will still sprout.  It's also possible you
simply are giving up too soon;  tree seeds (especially large ones)
tend to take longer to sprout than, say, garden seeds.

Notable exceptions to most of this are citrus.  Fresh (right out of
the fruit and still moist when planted) seeds will sprout in a couple
of weeks and grow rather quickly.  I don't know what kind of fruit you
would get from these, but I've grown several lemon and tangerine seeds
and they make nice house/patio plants (here in Michigan where citrus
would never survive an autumn, let alone a winter outdoors).

John Tusciuk
jgtusciu@mtu.edu


From andrewm@idirect.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:31 EST 1995
Article: 58154 of rec.gardens
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From: andrewm@idirect.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Wildflowers - Southern Ontario
Date: 8 Mar 1995 04:49:58 GMT
Organization: ComputerLink Online Inc., Toronto, ON
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I'm looking for a wildflower mixture for my border garden in Southern
Ontario. Most of the commercial packages do not have species that 
are common here and I would rather find a mixture containing seeds
indegenius to this region. Any suggestions?



From jgtusciu@mtu.edu Sun Mar 12 22:23:32 EST 1995
Article: 58155 of rec.gardens
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From: jgtusciu@mtu.edu (John Tusciuk)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: date seed germination
Date: 9 Mar 1995 22:52:23 -0500
Organization: Michigan Technological University
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Tim Gaydos (Tim_Gaydos@lamg.com) wrote:
: I would like to grow some date palms from seeds.  I have been eating the dates
: and saving the pits.  What do I need to do to get these to germinate and
: sprout?  Any information about germination and growing these plants would be
: helpful.

: Thanks, Tim

I recently started several.  I put them in a jar of water and put it
on the radiator (dates like a lot of heat;  my radiator was hot enough
to kill just about everything else I tried to sprout on it).  They
will sprout a small white root sticking through the side after a few
weeks (mine took about a week and a half, but I've read quotes of up
to six weeks).  Then stick in potting soil.  I don't know if it
matters, but I stick them in vertically.  Be careful with the root
because it's easy to break it off (I broke a couple).  You might have
as good luck just putting them in the soil, but I figure what worked
once will work again.  I've started seven this way, and the first I
did (about two months ago) is now about three inches tall.  I've had
all the seeds I've tried sprout, by the way.  Oh, and I changed the
water everytime it started looking cloudy.

John Tusciuk
jgtusciu@mtu.edu


From Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us Sun Mar 12 22:23:33 EST 1995
Article: 58156 of rec.gardens
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <73@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us>
Reply-To: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
From: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 1995 22:50:33 GMT
Subject: good smelling annuals 
Lines: 14
Status: O
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brachyome iberidifolia - swan river daisy
cheiranthus cheiri - wallflower
dianthus barbatus - sweet william
heliotropium arborescens - heliotrope
lathyrus odoratus - sweet pea
lobularia maritima - sweet alyssum
matthiola incana - stock
matthiola longipetala - night scented stock
mirablis jalapa - four oclock
reseda odorata - mignonette

These are from a list in one of my gardening books.  sweet pea
alyssum and four oclocks are fragrant I have not tried the others
but I plan too!!! 



From Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us Sun Mar 12 22:23:34 EST 1995
Article: 58157 of rec.gardens
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <72@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us>
References: <3j01u5$gls@tekadm1.cse.tek.com><3jkpot$1f4@babylon.gain.com>
Reply-To: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
From: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 1995 22:37:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Foxglove afterlife? reseeding themselves
Lines: 8
Status: O
X-Status: 

You basiccally have to watch the following.

dont mulch until after the plants start to grow.  Alot of people will
mulch around the plant in the winter and that buries the seeds. So
they dont grow.

make sure that you dont really disturb the soil around the plant
until the foxglove starts to grow and then mulch and fertlize. 



From jgtusciu@mtu.edu Sun Mar 12 22:23:35 EST 1995
Article: 58158 of rec.gardens
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From: jgtusciu@mtu.edu (John Tusciuk)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Trees from the seeds??
Date: 9 Mar 1995 23:16:22 -0500
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3jojqm$phs@werner.cs.mtu.edu>
References: <D579s7.7vK@odin.corp.sgi.com>
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Bill Weaver (bweaver@joshua.corp.sgi.com) wrote:
: Bewing relatively new to this newsgroup I apologize if this subject has
: been discussed or if there is a FAQ (can some one point me to it).

: I have been trying, unsuccessfully to start various fruit trees from the
: seeds of their fruit.  This may seem really ignorant but I had never seen
: or read anything on the subject of tree starting.

: Can anyone help.  Is it even possible?  

I also just remembered that I have a book that describes methods for
starting many seeds:

The New Seed-Starters Handbook
by Nancy Bubel
Rodale Press
$14.95 list

This book mentions apples, pears, Prunus spp. (cherry, plum, almond),
as well as nut trees, blueberry bushes, raspberry bushes, etc.  The
author is much more optimistic about the fruit from the trees than I
was in my previous post.  The book also describes methods for saving
and sowing seeds for a large number of vegetables, flowers, trees, and
shrubs and is just chock full of general advice as well.

John


From wham108550@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:36 EST 1995
Article: 58159 of rec.gardens
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From: wham108550@aol.com (Wham108550)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: vegetable plants for containers
Date: 9 Mar 1995 23:42:26 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: wham108550@aol.com (Wham108550)
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Cherry tomatoes, Chives, Sage, Oregano and Parsley have done real well for
me in pots


From pjsirl@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:37 EST 1995
Article: 58160 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!eskimo!pjsirl
From: pjsirl@eskimo.com (Peter Sirl)
Subject: Re: Moles, I think...
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themaxer@infinet.com writes:

>I think I have a problem with moles. My yard looks like it has a bad case of acne. 
>There are mounds of dirt all over the place. There are however no clear signs of 
>holes. It just looks like the dirt was piled up. The ground is very soft and hollow 
>under the mounds. What is the best and easiest way to get id of my new friends. 
>HELP!
>Thanks,
>Ed 
>themaxer@infinet.com
I had a mole problem two years ago and solved it with Fox Urine.  Yes, 
real urine...no I don't know how they get the stuff (Please fill the cup 
to the line Mr. Fox).  But hey it worked.  Get an unused synthetic sponge 
and cut it into small pieces 1x1/2in. should do.  Scrape dirt from 
entrance of hole and insert a sponge, then give a squirt or two of the 
pee onto the sponge and cover the hole.  I saved the excess dirt and used 
it in my veg. patch.
The theory behind this proccedure is:  the mole smells the urine of a 
large predator and skeedatles for safer forage...in theory.  They may 
take a while to get the picture.  Keep in mind that moles do no DIRECT 
damage to plants, although the roots don't like being exposed to air, and 
moles are preying on our friends the worms.  Other than that it's just 
unsightly...Get the Pee-Pee at a larger or better garden supply store.
Good Luck.
Peter


From adubrofs@ccs.carleton.ca Sun Mar 12 22:23:38 EST 1995
Article: 58161 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!superior!adubrofs
From: adubrofs@ccs.carleton.ca (Anne Dubrofsky)
Subject: Re: Slugs
Message-ID: <D57LJ6.L35@cunews.carleton.ca>
Followup-To: misc.rural,rec.gardens
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:15882 rec.gardens:58161
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Michael E. Matthews (mem7c@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU) wrote:

> cut
>  I have heard people
> > >>use Diematrius (sp?) earth. I have sprinkled about two pounds
> > >>of it on our beds and walk ways over the past several months but
> > >>it doesn't seem to have _any_ affect on the slugs at all. I bought
> > >>it at Gardens Alive who claims it does wonders at killing slugs. So...
> > >>What am I doing wrong with it that my local slugs don't seem to
> > >>be affected by it? Any ideas? Does it work for you? Does it no?
> > >>How do you use it?
> > >
> cut
> >
> > >It's "diatomaceous" earth.  Remains of little sea critters from long 
> > >ago.  I heard it's best used when sprinkled fairly thickly in a ring 
> > >around individual plants. Slugs don't like to crawl over the stuff; its 
> > >sharp edges hurts their bellies.  
> > >
> cut 	
> >  Anyways what I read was to mix it with water
> > and spray on the plants, then when the slugs eat it it dries them out inside
> > I would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried this
> cut

> I used diatomaceous earth (DE) last year, and it was moderately
> effective.  A light dusting where slugs will crawl does cut
> them up and make them dry out and die. I just sprinkled the
> powder on the ground like talcum powder when there was little
> liklihood of rain for several days. It is no longer effective
> after a rain washes it down into the soil, so best to apply it
> when there's good weather ahead.  I also used tuna cans of
> beer, which would get a lot of slugs for a couple of days then
> need to be replaced too. My best treatment was flashlight and
> stick--no need for salt or ammonia, etc.--just smash the snails
> with the stick.  But make sure you don't hold the used end of
> the stick the next time. :( Disgusting.

> Using the stick method consistently and the beer and DE
> sporadically, I did not find myself withour snails at any time,
> but I had much less snail damage to my garden. More will always
> come, but few stayed around long enough to eat all my flowers
> and vegetables. I can put up with the occasional loss.

> BTW, one pest book I read standing up at the garden center said
> a snail can crawl a mile a day.

> Michael in central VA, two daffodils in bloom.

Last summer, I tried two methods, both of which work, but which also
make the gardener work. First, you can sprinkle salt on the slugs. The
second method, is to spray a 50/50 mixture of vinegar and water on the
creatures. In actual fact, I diluted the vinegar just a bit more,
(55:45 of water:vinegar). For both methods, I did this in the morning,
so that I didn't need a flashlight, and because I disliked the
procedure in the dark. You do need to be early, within two hours of
sun-up. My plants thrived for not being chewed by the slugs. 
Anne.


From le@icbr.ifas.ufl.edu Sun Mar 12 22:23:41 EST 1995
Article: 58162 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!flanegan2.health.ufl.edu!user
From: le@icbr.ifas.ufl.edu (Lucia Eisner Smerage)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mulch and termites
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 1995 23:56:05 -0400
Organization: U of Florida
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <le-0903952356050001@flanegan2.health.ufl.edu>
References: <chrisiD54Kpq.5nM@netcom.com>
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In article <chrisiD54Kpq.5nM@netcom.com>, chrisi@netcom.com (Chris Ischay)
wrote:

> I am wondering if anyone has any direct experience of finding that mulch
> made from wood can wind up harboring termites?  

Here in Gainesville, Florida, it is a big problem.  I just had dinner with
someone whose new landscapers mulched over a concrete barrier and up to
the casement windows at her business several months ago, and now the
building is infested with termites.  The inspectors have traced the timing
and progression of the infestation to the cypress mulch.  The inspector
warns that you can mulch up to the concrete foundation, but not to mulch
right up to wooden structures (unless it's chemically treated wood to
prevent termite infestation.)


-- Lucia


From wham108550@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:42 EST 1995
Article: 58163 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: wham108550@aol.com (Wham108550)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Tomatoes in Pots?
Date: 9 Mar 1995 23:41:00 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Reply-To: wham108550@aol.com (Wham108550)
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Status: O
X-Status: 

Last summer I tried growing Cherry Tomatoes in pots with very good success
As for the flowers dropping before bearing fruit I don't know for sure but
I believe insects are needed for pollenation and that may be a problem. 
But I'd first put my money on the roommate that let them go with out water


From k8128@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:43 EST 1995
Article: 58164 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: k8128@aol.com (K8 128)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Germination Problems
Date: 9 Mar 1995 23:46:29 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Hi,
Try germinating at a higher temperature. Seeds seem to like warm to
germinate and cool to grow (go figure). I just put them on a table with a
lamp under it. good luck, kate.


From jack@ckd.uucp Sun Mar 12 22:23:44 EST 1995
Article: 58165 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!wanda.pond.com!kd3bj!ckd!jack
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <277@ckd.uucp>
Reply-To: jack@ckd.uucp (jack paul)
From: jack@ckd.uucp (jack paul)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 10:54:38 GMT
Subject: Suggestions for vine?
Lines: 14
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is my first post!  I've been enjoying your group for several
months now.  Thanks to all for the wealth of information.

I have an old concrete (at least thats what it looks like)
springhouse that I would like to cover with a vine.  Obviously,
its in a damp area.  It's in a wooded area and gets only minimal
sun.  I'd like something that flowers (trumpet vine?) and/or is
evergreen.  I think our soil is a little acidic (Rhodos, ferns and
Jack-in-the-Pulpits do well here).  Zone 6, I thinks.  About 60
miles north west of Phila.

Any suggestions?   Thanks in advance!

Linda. 

Jack Paul
Hereford, Pa. USA
jack%ckd@kd3bj.ampr.orgt


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Sun Mar 12 22:23:45 EST 1995
Article: 58166 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Air freshening indoor plants??
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.231620.39996@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 9 Mar 95 23:16:20 -0600
References: <3jnjbk$926@pegasus.rutgers.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 22
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3jnjbk$926@pegasus.rutgers.edu>, craighd@pegasus.rutgers.edu (Craig Davis) writes:
> Are there any particular indoor plants that are good for
> getting rid of stale air?  Along those lines, I heard that
> most plants produce relatively little usable oxygen, but
> does this vary greatly among different plants?  Right now
> I have a china doll, which seems to have a good effect.
> Also, it seems that plant output varies with different
> conditions and times of day.  With the china doll, I notice
> that it smells the freshest in morning sunlight, after it's
> been watered.  Of course, this is anecdotal evidence.

It sort of depends on what you mean by "getting rid of stale
air".  "Airplane plant" or "spider plant", _Chlorophytum_, is
one of the best at absorbing indoor air pollutants, or so
said an EPA(?) study of about 10 years ago.

If you're looking for plants that smell good indoors, well...
I'm kinda fond of scented leaf geraniums.  Just run your fingers
lightly over the leaves.  UM!

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From gmileson@netcom.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:46 EST 1995
Article: 58167 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: gmileson@netcom.com (Glenna Mileson)
Subject: Re: Going NATIVE
Message-ID: <gmilesonD57Lvw.Mpr@netcom.com>
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Organization: Mileson & Associates
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 05:24:47 GMT
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>Steve Graf, graf@aldus.NorthNet.org writes:
>>2 that grow very well in my garden.  I would be interested if anyone
>could 
>>tell me where I might purchase native "species" azaleas suitable for
>USDA 
>>zone 4/5.  Lots of nurseries seem to have hybrids but not species
>azaleas :(.
>

The Rhododendron Species Botanical Garden
PO Box 3789
Federal Way, WA  98063-3798
(206)838-4646

It's also a wonderful garden to visit.


From xx143@prairienet.org Sun Mar 12 22:23:47 EST 1995
Article: 58168 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!xx143
From: xx143@prairienet.org (Koeltz Scientific Books)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FREE GARDENING SOFTWARE
Date: 12 Mar 1995 12:38:56 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3juq10$jde@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: xx143@prairienet.org (Koeltz Scientific Books)
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org
Status: RO
X-Status: 

we have several shareware and free gardening software
programs available for downloading from our windows based
bulletin board. you must get our client program first in order
to access our bbs and get these programs. this program
is available on the internet via www
http://www.prairienet.org/business/koeltz/homepage.htm not html!

programs include medicinal plants & uses, vegetable garden plotter,
flower garden plotter and database, herbal plants uses, plus
internet addresses for botanists, biologists guide to the internet, etc
. and our botany books catalogs of course. 
-- 
********************** Koeltz Scientific Books USA ********************** 
* www.prairienet.org/business/koeltz/homepage.htm    phone 217-355-9331 *
* email: xx143@prairienet.org      BBS Modem (DirectDial) 217-355-4532  *
*************************************************************************


From dhartung@MCS.COM Sun Mar 12 22:23:49 EST 1995
Article: 58169 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!ddsw1!not-for-mail
From: dhartung@MCS.COM (Daniel Hartung)
Newsgroups: news.config,news.groups,misc.consumers,misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Propose new group: alt.living.tightwad
Date: 10 Mar 1995 17:51:14 -0600
Organization: Birch Grove Software
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3jqoli$5o@Mars.mcs.com>
References: <3jj9vs$91p@isnews.calpoly.edu> <3jooot$7sp@news1.best.com> <3jq3po$rov@jac.zko.dec.com>
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Larry Smith USG <larrys@alpha.zk3.dec.com> wrote:
>Folks, while I think the idea has merit, I must remind you
>that alt groups are not debated in news.groups, they are
>_not_ part of the "big 7" hierarchy.  If you want an alt
>group, take it to alt.config.  If you want one in misc,
>rec,soc,sci,news,comp, or talk, then keep it here.

Good point, except that that hasn't been decided yet.

-- 
 Daniel A. Hartung             |  Support the new Arts/Humanities hierarchy!
 dhartung@mcs.com              |  
 dhartung@chinet.chinet.com    |  Look for the "humanities.misc" CFV
 http://www.mcs.net/~dhartung/ |  in news.announce.newgroups


From mrbag@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:23:53 EST 1995
Article: 58170 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: mrbag@aol.com (MrBag)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Sage
Date: 10 Mar 1995 01:03:12 -0500
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X-Status: 

How long does it take for sage to grow in the winter?


From bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 12 22:23:56 EST 1995
Article: 58171 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Subject: Re: Small Fruit Trees??
Message-ID: <D579r8.J4I@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: bs812@freenet3.carleton.ca (Janet Malowany)
Reply-To: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3jnckp$mhm@info1.sdrc.com>  
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 01:06:43 GMT
Lines: 40
Status: O
X-Status: 

Lisa,

	How big is your yard?  How big do you want the tree to get?
Answers to these questions could help people figure out how to help you.

Janet


In a previous posting, lisa kerns (drlkrns@sdrc.com) writes:
> I was thinking of getting some fruit trees for my yard, but I
> have never selected fruit trees before. I would like a variety
> of maybe, a pair each of several different fruit trees. 
> 
> As an example, my National Arbor Day Foundation Book lists
> for most of the different fruit trees: Dwarf (2-3') and
> Standard (3-5'), and for some also Semi-Dwarf (3-5').
> 
> It doesn't say, but it sounds like this would have to be the size
> at shipment. I need to know how tall they will grow and their spread!
> My neighbor once had a cherry tree that was twice the size of his house!
> Good gracious, my yard isn't THAT big, and I want a few different kinds
> of fruits, but I don't want really big trees, and I don't really want
> puny ones either. Do all fruit trees come in a dwarf size? How big do 
> they get?
> 
> 
> =====================================================================
> |    Lisa M. Kerns      e-mail: lisa.kerns@sdrc.com                 |  
> |                                                                   |
> | Structural Dynamics Research Corporation   Cincinnati, OH         | 
> | My employer cannot be held responsible for my correspondence ...  |
> | They'd probably deny that I was employed here anyway.             |
> =====================================================================
> 


--
"Horse, thou art truly a creature without equal, for thou fliest
without wings and conquerest without sword."
						-The Koran


From bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 12 22:23:58 EST 1995
Article: 58172 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bs812
From: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Subject: Re: Problem with earwigs
Message-ID: <D57ADx.Jru@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: bs812@freenet3.carleton.ca (Janet Malowany)
Reply-To: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <gml0-080395100132@glambert.gte.com> <3jhj7c$bpt@monroe-emh4.army.mil>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 01:20:20 GMT
Lines: 27
Status: O
X-Status: 

In a previous posting, Gary Lambert (gml0@gte.com) writes:
> In article <3jhj7c$bpt@monroe-emh4.army.mil>, sinues@prc.prc.mrms.navy.mil
> (John C. Sinues) wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I have earwigs in and around my home.  What are the purpose of earwigs?
>> Do they pose a potential problem for me?  How can I get rid of them?
>> Comments and information on these little insects would greatly be
>> appreciated.
>> 
>> 
> Chickens love them, as well as lots of other pests like slugs,etc.

I also have earwig problems.  What I do is mix soap and water together
(try not ot make it very soapy, it will kill the plants too).  The mixture
should kill the earwigs when it touches them.  Sometimes it takes more
than one try, but this method works well.  Most of the earwigs I find are
under my rhubarb, so if you have a rhubarb, BEWARE!

Janet



--
"Horse, thou art truly a creature without equal, for thou fliest
without wings and conquerest without sword."
						-The Koran


From sfo@bu.edu Sun Mar 12 22:24:01 EST 1995
Article: 58173 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!purdue!news.bu.edu!sfo
From: sfo@bu.edu (Samme Orwig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Holly and pollination
Date: 12 Mar 1995 12:52:52 GMT
Organization: Boston University
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When planting different varieties
of ilex, must one buy the male
pollinator to match each type
of female shrub or tree?

Thanks.



From fmbutt@engage.sps.mot.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:03 EST 1995
Article: 58174 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!spstimes.sps.mot.com!newsdist.sps.mot.com!risc.sps.mot.com!not-for-mail
From: fmbutt@engage.sps.mot.com (Farooq Butt)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Is rot a problem with daylilies ?
Date: 9 Mar 1995 23:19:09 -0600
Organization: Motorola RISC Software, Austin, Texas
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I just received some nice daylilies. One of them had a teeny little
mushy area near the crown. I cut away a small amount of roots and 
the rest of the plant seems OK. Are bare-root daylilies 
susceptible to rot, should I do anything else or was even the little
I did strictly unecessary ?  BTW: a couple of the daylilies had 
a few roots break off. Should I plant the 1 inch thingies anyway 
hoping for plants in a year or so ? 

fmb

-- 
Standard High-Tech Disclaimer: NOTHING  in the above article has the slightest 
relationship to reality. If any reality correspondences are found, please 
notify me IMMEDIATELY. Any threats, abuse or stupidity of any kind is purely 
UNintentional. These are MY Opinions NOT my employer's.


From proc@skypoint.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:06 EST 1995
Article: 58175 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!skypoint.com!pm1-10.skypoint.net!user
From: proc@skypoint.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Rototillers
Date: 10 Mar 1995 06:45:27 GMT
Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc.
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <proc-1003950042230001@pm1-10.skypoint.net>
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In article <soffiler.180.000D8E58@stealth.mc.ti.com>,
soffiler@stealth.mc.ti.com (Steve Offiler) wrote:

> My question is, which rototiller, front-tine or rear-tine?  My usage will be 
> preparation of soil for a respectable size vegetable garden, possibly upwards 
> of 1000 sq ft.  I have an old Farmall Cub with a breaking plow, which will 
> cut and turn the sod very nicely.  With this in mind, I think I can get away 
> with a smaller and less expensive front-tine tiller of maybe 4HP or so, 
> hopefully to be purchased used for a low price.
> 
> Your inputs and comments are greatly appreciated.

Whatever you get make sure it is a REAR tine tiller.....the front tine
ones are junk! I've owned several Troy-Bilt tillers and while they are a
tad on the expensive side they last a long time and do the job quite well.
Remember plowing just turns the soil over and doesn't prep the soil for
planting. You need a tiller to make the soil into something that you can
plant into.

Troy-Bilt and several other companies make rear tine tillers. I currently
have a 5hp Pony tiller that's not only easy to handle but does a fine job
of preparing soil for planting.


From proc@skypoint.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:08 EST 1995
Article: 58176 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!skypoint.com!pm1-10.skypoint.net!user
From: proc@skypoint.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Greenhouse Supplies
Date: 10 Mar 1995 06:49:55 GMT
Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc.
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <proc-1003950046510001@pm1-10.skypoint.net>
References: <3jln3c$khq@tadpole.fc.hp.com>
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Status: O
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In article <3jln3c$khq@tadpole.fc.hp.com>, craig_robson@fc.hp.com wrote:

> I'm looking for a mailorder source for greenhouse supplies.   I'm looking
> for equipment sources not seed sources.
> 
> Does anybody know of any good places?


Yep, Mellinger's in Ohio sells everything from Greenhouse supplies to
Greenhouses themselves. Phone is 216-549-9861, they have a catalog as
well.

They are a decent place for supplies although if you are looking for
potting medium you are probably better off buying it locally in bulk
because of the added shipping expenses incurred.


From jrome@k12.ucs.umass.edu Sun Mar 12 22:24:10 EST 1995
Article: 58177 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.umass.edu!k12.ucs.umass.edu!k12.ucs.umass.edu!jrome
From: jrome@k12.ucs.umass.edu (Jodi Rome-Avcus (Apponequet RHS))
Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?
Message-ID: <1995Mar11.181407.26888@k12.ucs.umass.edu>
Sender: usenet@k12.ucs.umass.edu (USENET News System)
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Well, it's still early March and right now, here in Massachusetts
there are no blooms yet.  Though a few weeks ago the bulbs were
trying desperately to come up.  The weather here's been so crazy
that plants and people alike don't know what's up with the 
weather.  I write more as something happens.

Right now, I'm trying to decide when the last real frost will
be so I can plant wildflowers.  Just moved into my first house
and am having fun planning!!!

Bye for now,
Jodi
-- 
Have a great day!
Jodi Rome-Avrus


From pattibelle@delphi.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:13 EST 1995
Article: 58178 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gophers
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 00:58:38 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 10
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References: <3jq1u3$6qr@martha.utk.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1a.delphi.com
X-To: Ron Tipton <uther@martha.utcc.utk.edu>
Status: O
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I used Gopher Go on the gopher that decimated my perennial bed last
summer.  What a mess it made!  25 glads eaten and a number of plants
killed whose roots were eaten.  You can take a spading fork or one of
those root feeder tubes to find underground tunnels.  Probe, and the
root feeder will sink where there's a burrow.  Put the pellets in an
active burrow, then cover your excavation with a stepping stone--or
anything that will keep the light out.  I nailed my gopher in just
one day after trying gassing, etc.  Happy hunting!
 
Pat in Napa, CA


From scwheaton@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:16 EST 1995
Article: 58179 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: scwheaton@aol.com (SCWheaton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Date: 12 Mar 1995 09:36:49 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 6
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: scwheaton@aol.com (SCWheaton)
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Three 'great' invasive plants:
Monarda(interesting flower as bonus)
Physotegia
Lysymachia
These are tough plants that offer different types of flowers and will take
over wherever possible.


From stephenc33@ids.net Sun Mar 12 22:24:18 EST 1995
Article: 58180 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!paperboy.ids.net!pslip017
From: stephenc33@ids.net (Stephen Cotroneo)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW site
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 14:45:11 GMT
Organization: IDS World Network Internet Access Service, (800)IDS-1680
Lines: 1
Distribution: world
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X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2.1
Status: O
X-Status: 

                        Does anyone know of WWW sites on gardening.


From kiewicz@oeonline.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:19 EST 1995
Article: 58181 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!m-net!netmeg!oeonline!kiewicz
From: kiewicz@oeonline.com (Pat and George Kiewicz)
Subject: Re: What are you growing from seed?
Organization: Observer & Eccentric News  Livonia, MI
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 17:13:53 GMT
Message-ID: <D513vG.5Lx@oeonline.com>
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
References: <1995Mar4.212735.2545@olaf.wellesley.edu>
Lines: 56
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Linda M. French (linda@annie.wellesley.edu) wrote:
<snip>
: What about others?  What are you growing?

Ignoring vegetables (which means ignoring a large part
of what I grow from seed):

1) started indoors already

Verbascum phoenicicum 'Flush of White'
Salad burnet 
Viola 'Bowles Black'
Gaura lindheimeri 
Eccremocarpus scaber

2) will start for transplant

Torenia baillonii 'Suzy Wong'
Cosmos 'Yellow Ladybird'
Sweet alyssum 'Snow Crystal'
Ipomea quamoclit


3) will seed in place

Malope trifida
Phacelia 'Tropical surf'
California poppies 'Choicest mix'
Lavatera trimestris 'Silver Cup'
Nigella 'Mulberry rose'
Various sunflower varieties

...and maybe more if I don't become too wrapped up
in the vegetable garden...

And not counting a any flower or herb seeds that are on
order and haven't arrived, or seeds I might find
compelled to purchase off the rack...

If we do start on vegetables there are at least six 
pepper varieties, ten tomato varieties, three types
of eggplant...

Better not start on the vegetables!

Pat in Plymouth MI

I almost forgot... 
I ordered seeds for a tree (_Franklinia altahama_)
this year.  

-- 
                           ====================
        We do not speak for the Suburban Communications Corporation.
	The Suburban Communications Corporation does not speak for us.



From scwheaton@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:20 EST 1995
Article: 58182 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: scwheaton@aol.com (SCWheaton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fertilizing Perennials???
Date: 12 Mar 1995 09:43:09 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: scwheaton@aol.com (SCWheaton)
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I second the previous advice on bone meal. Perennials need to have healthy
root systems and bone meal helps with this better than most other
fertilizers that emphasize nitrogen, which helps the foliage. If the
plants have healthy roots they'll produce better foliage and flowers,
resist disease better, and endure dormancy during tough winters better


From mhs@bstorey.Gwinnett.COM Sun Mar 12 22:24:21 EST 1995
Article: 58183 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!gwinnett!bstorey!mhs
From: mhs@bstorey.Gwinnett.COM (Storeybrook Farms)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Minature Vegetable Seed
Message-ID: <eD5s2c2w165w@bstorey.Gwinnett.COM>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 11:16:01 EST
Lines: 2
Status: RO
X-Status: A

If you know of a source for minature veg's please email me
mhs@bstorey.gwinnett.com  Thanks Mary Storey


From mhs@bstorey.Gwinnett.COM Sun Mar 12 22:24:23 EST 1995
Article: 58184 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!gwinnett!bstorey!mhs
From: mhs@bstorey.Gwinnett.COM (Storeybrook Farms)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: HGTV
Message-ID: <eN4s2c1w165w@bstorey.Gwinnett.COM>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 11:00:25 EST
References: <mfrost.305.01308C52@primenet.com>
Lines: 26
Status: RO
X-Status: 

mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost) writes:

> In article <mobabbb.1144473991G@newsserver.utcc.utk.edu> mobabbb@utkvx.utk.ed
> >From: mobabbb@utkvx.utk.edu (Meredith Morris-Babb)
> >Subject: HGTV
> >Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 19:32:31 GMT
> 
> >I am curious how many of you folks are getting the new HGTV ( Home and
> >Garden Network) through your local cable systems.  I think it is great
> 
> >I met the folks from HGTV at our local garden show and I promised i would
> >ask around about new programming.  Any Ideas?  I already told them they
> >needed to get Jerry Barker on board, but they are willing to listen to just
> >about any ideas we (Rec. Garden Collective) may have!
> 
> >Meredith
> I am not sure if we get that program in Southern California. Our PBS station 
> has kind of lost my gardening attention. For one thing, it's
> disappointing in the tendency of some garden shows to wander off to exotic 
> lands with huge estates, leaving us at home with our mundane gardens. I'd be 
> interested in a more backyard kind of approach.
> Regards, Martha
> mfrost@primenet.com

I couldn't agree more!  Give us more old fashion remedies
and malladies.  Storeybrook Farms


From jilla@teal.csn.org Sun Mar 12 22:24:26 EST 1995
Article: 58185 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csnnews!teal.csn.org!jilla
From: jilla@teal.csn.org (Jill Arnson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Heat & Light for Seeds
Date: 9 Mar 1995 21:40:14 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3jnsju$s3s@news-2.csn.net>
References: <D4y1KD.4z7@dorite.use.com> <3jkfgl$hfm@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.117.27.22
Status: O
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In article <3jkfgl$hfm@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
TIGIBSON <tigibson@aol.com> wrote:
>do seedlings have to have artificial light? i'd like to get by with a
>southern exposure. input please.

	A sunny window is fine. However, the AMOUNT of daylight the plants
need at this time of year calls for artificial light.  You need to give
your seedlings (almost any in fact) about 14-16 hours of daylight for them
to grow properly.  Otherwise you end up with spindly sickly looking things.
Thisk about when seeds would come up in nature - its after the last frost
where daylight hours are at least 14 hours a day.

jill


-- 
Jill C. Arnson
Omnipoint Corporation
Colorado Springs, Co  (but Denver's where I hang my hat)
jilla@csn.org


From mwalker@iglou.iglou.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:28 EST 1995
Article: 58186 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!iglou!iglou.iglou.com!mwalker
From: mwalker@iglou.iglou.com (Mark Walker)
Subject: Vegetable Plants From See
Message-ID: <D5BzqD.68t@iglou.com>
Sender: news@iglou.com (USENET News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 14:18:13 GMT
Lines: 49
Status: RO
X-Status: 

TO: jmv@cci.com


j>Last year I tried growing vegetables from seeds. I read several books
j>on the subject - but seemed to do everthing wrong. I planted tomatoes
j>and peppers from seeds because I was told these were very easy to do.


j>2) I used 2 shop lights for a total of 160 watts of power only about
j>   six inches away from the pots. When the plant started to grow they
j>   were long and stringy - I was told I needed more light. 
The lights should be kept about 2 to 3" away from the plants at all 
times, that is why your plants got so leggy. Also twelve weeks is way to 
far in advance cut that back to 6 to 8 weeks.

j>Am I missing something or is growing plants from seeds very hard to do
j>and only for fun and not economically a good idea. 
I personally would only grow plants from seed that I can not find at my 
local garden or farm co-ops, it is cheaper for a greenhouse to propagate 
the standard beefsteaks etc. than you can start them.

j>Is it possible to just get some good outside topsoil, seed it and put
j>it  in the window. Whats the best thing to use for containers, I am
j>looking  at about 40 tomato plants and 20 pepper plants. 
You can use garden soil if it is sterilized first, (boy does it stink 
when you do it though), if you don't you are asking for trouble. Weeds,
insect pests, damping off, etc. Again if you are after the standard 
plants just buy them unless you really like all the work. (I hate to 
discourage you but I went through the same thought processes and buy 
almost all of mine these days).

Mark

j>______________________________________________________________________
__
j>|  ___
j>|  | James M. Villard                         E-mail: jmv@cci.com
j>|
j>|_____________________________________________________________________
__
j>____| 




j>      
---
ţ CMPQwk #1.4ţ UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
                                                                


From billyfish@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:29 EST 1995
Article: 58187 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!hobbes.cc.uga.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!emory!swrinde!pipex!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: billyfish@aol.com (BillyFish)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Tree tomatoes
Date: 11 Mar 1995 10:58:41 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: billyfish@aol.com (BillyFish)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I saw an advertisment for tree tomatoes.  The pictures looked like cut
tomatoes.  The hype said the were tomatoes and tasted great.  The price
was reasonable.  Somehow, I get the feeling that they are trying to sucker
me.

What can anyone tell me about tree tomatoes?

William Buchman 


From LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU Sun Mar 12 22:24:31 EST 1995
Article: 58188 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!VM.TEMPLE.EDU!LEAPDJWV
From: LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: cats and ponds, other visitors?
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 10:43:31 EST
Organization: Temple University
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <1735E96D8S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
References: <D4DJ8G.LpB@oeonline.com> <3jr2el$pi5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vm.temple.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

I've enjoyed watching cat visits to my small garden pond.  It seems to
be a draw for cats, mine & others.  My cat will run from the back door
to the pond for a drink.  Then they check out the plants near the pond
before taking a tour of their garden and chasing unwanted visitors.
 
Last fall I noticed how frequently the pond was visited by others and
tried to keep it ice free during the winter.  I often found dusty paw
prints on the ice or in the snow and enjoyed the dance of thirsty
squirels trying to break through.
 
My daughter after designing, planting and stocking a large garden pond
wondered why she saw far fewer fish than expected.  I'm sure it was
visited by the neighbor's cat, by racoons but it wasn't until late
Spring of the second year when she watched a young heron fishing that
she understood where all her expensive Koi had gone.  From then her
pond purchases were more directed to plants.  She and my grand daughter
looked forward to the heron's return.
 
The garden pond became a favored place.  Taking an artist on a tour
grand daughter pointed out plants, flowers, turtles and the surviving
fish and there was a story for each.  The artist recreated their pond
on a child's table and chair set.  They moved, leaving the pond but
taking her table, chairs and memories of the pond.  Recently, I listened
as she told her younger brother, who never saw the pond, about the heron
who went fishing in her pond and pointed out where on her table.
 
A 3 year old has a wonderful capacity to learn from and enjoy our garden
and its visitors.
 
Dave Vanderhoof
 
 


From bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 12 22:24:32 EST 1995
Article: 58189 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bs812
From: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Subject: Re: Apples!
Message-ID: <D5C3Iv.5LH@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: bs812@freenet2.carleton.ca (Janet Malowany)
Reply-To: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <featherzD5AxqB.5E4@netcom.com>  
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 15:40:06 GMT
Lines: 31
Status: O
X-Status: 


In a previous posting,  (featherz@netcom.com) writes:
> Hi all! Thanks for all the responses on my lawn/tulip questions. My tulips are 
> coming up nicely and the lawn looks better,
> One more question.. I've just noticed that our (planted dormant in december) 5 
> in 1 apple tree actually has apples! They are about the size of a large 
> marble-one branch has yellowish fruit, the other red. My question is this-now 
> that the fruit is starting to appear-how can I protect it? (from insects, 
> mostly). What insects destroy apples? We almost lost an orange tree last 
> summer from the grasshoppers, and I'd like to see just how big these little 
> apples will become (I didn't expect any fruit out of these trees this year, so 
> if they turn out small, ah well..).
> I don't notice any insect damage so far, but I want to be prepared. 
> We're in Zone 9, I believe - Southern California. 
> Can I cover them with mesh? Horribly disgusting carcinogenic pesticides? :)
> 
> Heather
> 
> 
> 


You could always attract birds that eat the insects. :) That's what we do.

Janet


--
"Horse, thou art truly a creature without equal, for thou fliest
without wings and conquerest without sword."
						-The Koran


From noisette@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:34 EST 1995
Article: 58190 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: noisette@aol.com (Noisette)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 10:57:59 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: noisette@aol.com (Noisette)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Azaleas, tulips, and daffodils in Houston.  Oh, and beautiful pansies.


From lexloci1@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:35 EST 1995
Article: 58191 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: lexloci1@aol.com (LEX LOCI 1)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: clematis or hydrangea help
Date: 12 Mar 1995 11:03:04 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 2
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: lexloci1@aol.com (LEX LOCI 1)
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Status: O
X-Status: 

can anyone give me the names for some good, hardy varieties of clematis
vines and hydrangeas which are suitable for a shady garden in zone 6?


From t12dl7h@ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:36 EST 1995
Article: 58192 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: t12dl7h@ix.netcom.com (Timothy Hostetler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Natural repellants for cats
Date: 12 Mar 1995 16:21:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jv72j$b7s@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3jprfm$eb4@archive.ny.jpmorgan.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-col2-21.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In <3jprfm$eb4@archive.ny.jpmorgan.com> Jeanne Sweeney 
<sweeney_jeanne@jpmorgan.com> writes: 

>
>I have a friend with a stray cat problem in his neighborhood. 
>(There are dozens.) He doesn't mind the cats but their urine seems
>to kill some of his plants.  Are there any natural ways to discourage
>the cats from entering his garden?

I noticed that my dog, who loves oranges (!), backs away from a slightly 
sqeezed orange peel.  I asked my vet about it and was told that citrus 
is a base for a lot of animal repellents.  Try crushing up some 
grapefruit or orange peels and scattering them about...


From swendorf@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu Sun Mar 12 22:24:38 EST 1995
Article: 58193 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!umcc.umich.edu!edcen!edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu!swendorf
From: swendorf@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu (Samantha Lynn Wendorf)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: strawberry pots
Date: 11 Mar 1995 17:25:03 GMT
Organization: Central Michigan University, Mt. Pleasant, MI, USA
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <3jsmdf$sm0@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
References: <46.14040.445@bbs.fullcoll.edu>
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I also recently purchased a strawberry pot for my herbs.  I am having 
difficutly watering it at the top.  All the water comes out of the top 
holes.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  I don't know whether to repot 
or not.
In a previous article, chris_thornton@bbs.fullcoll.edu (Chris Thornton) says:

>Hi,
>I recently purchased some strawberrys and a strawberry pot to put them
>in. However, I was wondering if I need to put some type of pipe with
>holes drilled in it. Or do I just water it alot from the top. They are
>tri-star berries if it matters.
>thanks in advance, chris
>
>==========================================================================
>Fullerton College claims no responsibility to the opinion expressed above!
>==========================================================================
>

-- 
Samantha Wendorf
Life is too short to sweat the details.



From cmeaster@pipeline.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:40 EST 1995
Article: 58194 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail
From: cmeaster@pipeline.com (Charles L. Measter)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Deer and Fences
Date: 12 Mar 1995 11:35:00 -0500
Organization: The Pipeline
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rshiell@mcube.com () wrote:


>Subject: Deer and Fences
>From: rshiell@mcube.com
>Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 16:49:14 EST
>Organization: Desert Jewel On-Line Mall
>
>
>Someone please tell me if they've seen anything to 
>contradict this:
>
>Seems to me that deer problems for gardeners are mainly 
>the result of  bad land planning, where pockets of 
>forest are kept for `scenic' value  while homes are 
>built up against the woods, and no fences are put up.
>
>I've not known neighborhoods where all the backyards 
>are fenced to have  deer problems, unless they are 
>close to several acres of forest.
>
>Maybe folks with deer trouble should get everyone 
>around them to put up  fences.
>
>I know that deer jump like magic, and can easily clear 
>a 6' fence.  But  it seems that they are loathe to jump 
>a series of fences.
>
>Richard Shiell, ASLA   Bakersfield, CA         
>RShiell@mcube.com
>
>--
>Mainframes, Minis & Micros     |     Desert Jewel BBS & 
>Online Mall  5630 District Blvd.   #114     |     
>Telnet to 204.212.36.4  Bakersfield, CA      93313     
>|     FTP to 204.212.36.4  LandLine  ==  800-949-1959   




>  |     WWW to http:\\www@204.212.36.4  

In Connecticut I have found the best way to keep the deer away 
from the garden is to place a salt lick a the far end of the 
property. The deer go to the lick not the garden. 
Were we live in Connecticut we all have large peices of land 
and very few fencesand the deer are a problem but the above 
seems to work fairly well


From Evanne@francis.cerf.net Sun Mar 12 22:24:42 EST 1995
Article: 58195 of rec.gardens
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From: Evanne@francis.cerf.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Coffee Grounds
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 08:26:29 PDT
Organization: CERFnet
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3jv8aq$n6@news.cerf.net>
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Put them in your compost pile or just throw them on the soil.  I once heard 
they were acidic and contained some micronutrients so I throw them around my 
citrus which can always use more micronutrients.  Plus they are totally 
organic!> 
> Are coffee grounds good for anything in the garden?



From obaniokm@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Sun Mar 12 22:24:44 EST 1995
Article: 58196 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: obaniokm@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Keisha O'Banion)
Subject: address/phone # for Gardens Alive
Message-ID: <obaniokm-110395112838@129.59.192.41>
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Sender: news@news.vanderbilt.edu
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Hi everyone,
I've seen lots of folks mention Gardens Alive as a good source for pest
control items.  Would someone please post the address and phone # ?

Thanks,
Keisha
obaniokm@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu


From sundance@cybernetics.net Sun Mar 12 22:24:45 EST 1995
Article: 58197 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!news0.cybernetics.net!sundance.cybernetics.net!sundance
From: sundance@cybernetics.net (Al Ross SLIP)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Nursery in Charlotte NC
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 12:19:55 +1000
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There is a small nursery in Charlotte, that is looking for a partner....

My name is Al Ross at Nature’s Touch Nursery and am located on the 
north-east part of town. This side of town has great potential, 80% of the 
residents are new comers. There is unlimited landscape and retail potential.

I can’t do it all myself and do much better with a compatible partner. There is 
2+ acres and 2  12 by 40 greenhouses and a well.  Very small investment.

If you have any intersts in this direction.....email

Al Ross
 



From plantone@iquest.net Sun Mar 12 22:24:47 EST 1995
Article: 58198 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!dorite!news
From: plantone@iquest.net (Stan)
Subject: Re: indoor fluorescent lighting
Message-ID: <D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com>
Sender: news@dorite.use.com (News Admin)
Organization: IQuest Network Services
References: <D54uAy.E9x@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> <3jn480$ii9@taco.cc.ncsu.edu> 
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 16:48:15 GMT
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<D5A53o.F35@dorite.use.com> <kc-1103952012040001@kc.tiac.net>
Organization: IQuest Network Services
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6

In article <kc-1103952012040001@kc.tiac.net>, kc@tiac.net (Kevin Crader) says:

 >Just got back from the Arnold Arboretum, where alot of cool woodies are
 >propagated via all techniques. One of the propagators told me, as far as
 >growing from seed is concerned, they used to recommend a mix of warm and
 >cool bulbs. Now they recommend cool white alone (although you can still
 >use both if you want) for the home propagator. In their considerable
 >growing experience they have seen *no* difference whatsoever. Use the
 >savings to buy more plants!
 >
 >Kevin

hey Kevin,

what the propagator said is probably right as far as the lamps
they used.  using ordinary commercial home/office lighting,
whether cool or warm, is *not* the same as using colour
corrected lamps designed *specifically* for horticulture though.

The headings of "cool" and "warm" are general statements used
by the lighting industry, which when i started indoor gardening
about sixteen years ago, i used in combination, and later switched
to just cool white lamps.  but continueing experimentation, and the
advice of _experts_ in the field of horticulture (specifically indoors
under lights) has lead me to the use only lamps designed for
horticulture when i am trying to grow plants.  i too did not notice
much of a different between a mix of cool and warm normal lamps
over just cool white, but *i* definately have noticed a heathier/more
robust seedling (yielding significantly more in the end) using lamps
specifically made to grow plants.

Stan


From xocmit@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:48 EST 1995
Article: 58199 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: xocmit@aol.com (Xocmit)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: bamboo and ivy problem
Date: 12 Mar 1995 12:33:34 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Bamboo's a toughie; but if you are content with merely containing it, you
can buy plastic that you put in the ground - dig a trench around the
bamboo and put teh plastic in vertically, then backfill.  You need to get
down a foot to be sure you contain it, more wouldn't hurt (don't tell your
back that :) )  You can also try to dig up all the culms but that's sure
to be a drag if it has spread.  I'm a bamboo fan but don't have room for
more; post Free Bamboo, maybe somebody will take some away!
Good luck
Tim


From artbieker@delphi.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:50 EST 1995
Article: 58200 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!artbieker
From: artbieker@delphi.com (Arthur J. Bieker)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: onion q
Date: 12 Mar 1995 18:29:02 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
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> I love to grow onions but I have a problem. I get lots of top growth but not
much bulb. We're talkin' 3 feet high and 2" bulb! The same results for 2 years and 
4 varieties. > 

> Any suggestions for getting more bulb for the buck?
> 
>Bill, 

My friend who farms onions for a living says use a fertlizer with a big number 
in the middle. ie. 15-30-15, he says your complaint smacks of two high a
nitrogen component, planting to late in the season or both 

Hope this helps.

Arthur J. Bieker
artbieker@delphi.com


From gfloyd@cris.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:52 EST 1995
Article: 58201 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!warp.cris.com!localhost
From: gfloyd@cris.com (Gary Floyd)
Newsgroups: rec.ponds,rec.gardens,rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Introducing Pete's *New* Pond Page
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 17:57:22 GMT
Organization: Information Resources
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jvceg$lhc@warp.cris.com>
References: <3j7tsd$8hp@fido.asd.sgi.com> <1995Mar8.223718.15819@integrity.uucp> <grumbo.302.0003F5C0@niagara.com>
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Keywords: pond, water garden, www, koi, goldfish, water lily
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grumbo@niagara.com (Grahame Rumsby) wrote:
>In article <1995Mar8.223718.15819@integrity.uucp> ronp@mpd.tandem.com (Ron Perez) writes:
>Pete Orelup, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (peteo@sgi.com)
>(415) 390-3697, Fax: (415) 390-6056, MS: 1-875
>URL: http://reality.sgi.com/employees/peteo/
>
>Is anyone else having trouble reaching this site?  Is it restricted
>to SGI employees only?  Let me know, it sounds like a great home-page.
>
>Ron Perez,  Tandem Computers, Inc. Austin, TX (ronp@isd.tandem.com)

Homepage loads fine, and looks great.  Thanks for telling me about it!!


---------------
Gary
gfloyd@cris.com
---------------


From sfo@bu.edu Sun Mar 12 22:24:54 EST 1995
Article: 58202 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!purdue!news.bu.edu!sfo
From: sfo@bu.edu (Samme Orwig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: clematis or hydrangea help
Date: 12 Mar 1995 18:06:53 GMT
Organization: Boston University
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LEX LOCI 1 (lexloci1@aol.com) wrote:
: can anyone give me the names for some good, hardy varieties of clematis
: vines and hydrangeas which are suitable for a shady garden in zone 6?


In zone 6, you should have a lot to choose from -- but is the garden
really all that shady? That's not such a problem for hydrangea, but
the interesting characteristic about clematis (and other vines) is
that the "vining" capability evolved as these plants found a way to
reach sunlight from (presumably) shade-dominated environs. So, even
if the ground is shady (which clematis will prefer), the vine should
have a sunny spot to aim for.
I had quick success with:
belle of woking
nelly moser

some of the early blooming macropetalas will tolerate heavy shade.
it seems that Wayside has a fairly good selection.



From rredd@omni.voicenet.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:56 EST 1995
Article: 58203 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!ivyland22.voicenet.com!rredd
From: Ray Redd <rredd@omni.voicenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: DAYLILIES..
Date: 12 Mar 1995 03:38:31 GMT
Organization: DSC/Voicenet - BBS/Unix Shells/SLIP/NEWS - (215)443-7390
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Distribution: world
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In article <1995Mar9.151953.7669@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil> Glenn T. Welsh,
welshg@rl.af.mil writes:
>Anyone out there interested in Daylilies?

I love daylilies.   Now what?


From rredd@omni.voicenet.com Sun Mar 12 22:24:58 EST 1995
Article: 58204 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!ivyland22.voicenet.com!rredd
From: Ray Redd <rredd@omni.voicenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 04:08:41 GMT
Organization: DSC/Voicenet - BBS/Unix Shells/SLIP/NEWS - (215)443-7390
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In article <gate.Vu1s2c1w165w@bbs.gatecom.com> Scott shy,
shyguy@bbs.gatecom.com writes:
>Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?

Same as for the last 3 weeks or so, when the day warms up:  Chinese witch
hazel.  The winter aconite is fading, and the big wind last week pretty
much finished up the snowdrops. My first crocus came up this morning, and
there are some daffodil buds showing.  Some of my neighbors have species
crocuses out, and I met a woman Thursday whose pussy willows were
suitable for petting.

Jennifer Stiller
Haverford PA 
The line dividing zone 7 from zone 6 appears to run through my driveway...


From billyfish@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:02 EST 1995
Article: 58205 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: billyfish@aol.com (BillyFish)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: New (a)salts for slugs
Date: 12 Mar 1995 13:23:02 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Slug killing is a popular subject on this newsgroup.  Using common salt
(sodium chloride) seems to be a good slug killer by many accounts, but
many people do not want to use it because it is detrimental to the soil.

My guess is that salt work by osmosis.  That is, it sucks water out of the
snail or slug.  Other salts have this characterist.  Thus, if a salt that
is not detrimental to the soil is used on the slugs, it should also be
effective.  In fact there are salts that would be beneficial.

The first that comes to mind is ammonium sulfate.  It is often used as a
fertilizer to supply nitrogen and acidify the soil.  Potassium cloride
certainly comes to mind.  Epsom salt, magnesium sulfat, may work.  It is
often discussed here as a soil improver.  One can come up with a list of
such salts that include nitrates and phosphates etc.

Okay now.  If you experiment, please post results

William Buchman


From Gordon_Croft@Mindlink.bc.ca Sun Mar 12 22:25:03 EST 1995
Article: 58206 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!agate!news.mindlink.net!news
From: Gordon Croft <Gordon_Croft@Mindlink.bc.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Paw Paw tree???
Date: 12 Mar 1995 18:34:30 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! Communications Corp.
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Anyone know anything about the Paw Paw tree?

It is suppose to grow on the west coast of Canada (where we live) but
I know nothing of the quality of the fruit.

Thanks in advance,
Gord



From dawn@pangea.Stanford.EDU Sun Mar 12 22:25:04 EST 1995
Article: 58207 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!morrow.stanford.edu!pangea.Stanford.EDU!dawn
From: dawn@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Dawn Burgess)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: indoor fluorescent lighting
Date: 12 Mar 1995 18:41:24 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu>
References: <D54uAy.E9x@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> <3jn480$ii9@taco.cc.ncsu.edu> <D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu
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In article <kc-1103952012040001@kc.tiac.net>, kc@tiac.net (Kevin Crader) says:
[Argument that plain fluorescent tubes work fine for plants deleted]

Then, In article <D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com> plantone@iquest.net (Stan) writes:
[Argument that special grow lights are needed deleted]

Just another datum.... Stan says that the professional growers Kevin
talked to must have meant "horticultural cool whites" when they said 
"cool whites."  Not necessarily.  Some growers must think grow lights 
work better (since someone must buy them!), but not all of 
growers think that.  I was at Orchard Supply
Hardware, and one of the managers there (who would have every reason to 
want me to buy the grow lights, since they were *50* times more expensive--
no kidding!) said "well, I have run a greenhouse for years, and I find that
these work just fine."  He directed me to the plain fluorescent tubes
that were on sale for $.49 each.  I bought 2 :).  My plants are doing quite
well (brandywine tomatoes, ancho peppers and tomatillos).  I have
the lights only an inch or two from the leaves.  If your plants are 6" from
the lights, they are getting only 1/3 as much light as they would if 
they were 2" from the lights.  Fluorescent lights aren't hot, so don't
be afraid to really get 'em close.

Dawn


From raiar@vulcan.inlink.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:05 EST 1995
Article: 58208 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!thor.inlink.com!vulcan.inlink.com!raiar
From: raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Novice looking for weird plants
Date: 12 Mar 1995 04:28:19 GMT
Organization: inlink
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References: <3jh0qm$rp@inforamp.net>
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Keep an eye on your local garden shops, they usually have Venus Fly traps every spring.

If you really want unusual plants, take some flower seeds to your dentinst and have him X-ray the packages.  In some cases, you will come out with some real beauts.

Gary





From raiar@vulcan.inlink.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:06 EST 1995
Article: 58209 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!thor.inlink.com!vulcan.inlink.com!raiar
From: raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Date: 12 Mar 1995 04:34:01 GMT
Organization: inlink
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Hi Bill
The only way to go is to use Hydro-Sol and then add to that whatever you need.
In any case never add or use urea or ammonium based salts.
Gary Deutschmann, Ci hief Olericulturist, EcoTek Hydroculture, Inc.



From ba600@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 12 22:25:07 EST 1995
Article: 58210 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ba600@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Mike Kenzie)
Subject: Re: Natural repellants for cats
Message-ID: <D5CD3J.IBH@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ba600@freenet3.carleton.ca (Mike Kenzie)
Reply-To: ba600@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Mike Kenzie)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3jprfm$eb4@archive.ny.jpmorgan.com>  
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 19:06:54 GMT
Lines: 16
Status: O
X-Status: 

In a previous posting, Jeanne Sweeney (sweeney_jeanne@jpmorgan.com)
writes: 
> Are there any natural ways to discourage the cats from entering his garden?

I've always found that a noisy dog works :)

When I used to let my cats out the neighbours dog used to do a pretty good
job of keeping them on my side of the fence.  When my dog was out as well
the cats stayed on the porch, or came in.


--
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\|/\|/\|/\|/\|/   ''<<                                  \|/\|/\|/\|/\|/\|/\|/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From revans@msbbs.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:09 EST 1995
Article: 58211 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!news.xmission.com!news
From: revans@msbbs.com (Ruth Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Where to find Sweet W
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 12:18:23
Organization: CCUBB (A Great BBS)
Lines: 31
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <19950312.79A67C8.B186@msbbs.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: msbbs.com
Status: O
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>Sweet woodruff needs to be watered alot the first year then alot
>less the rest of its life.  Once it gets established.  Here in the
>raleigh, nc area any plant like that I plant in the fall.
>Especially if its not near my water supplies.

>I would be interested in where I can get some sweet wooddruf as
>well.

>
>  In article <3jgb8o$8d6@tadpole.fc.hp.com>, Paul Dineen
>(pld@fc.hp.com) writes: >Steven M. Begley (sbegley@omni.voicenet.com)
>wrote: >: Hi, gang!
>>:      Can anyone offer a suggestion on where one can find Sweet Woodr
>(Galium
>>: odoratum) around Philadelphia, PA? I can't find anyone who grows it.
>>
>>  Sorry, I can't help with where to buy them in PA.
>>
Give Bluestone Perennials a call.  Their number is 1-800-852-5243.  They
are a mail order firm in Ohio.  Their plants are small, but I've had
GREAT success with them.  Their product code is ASOD and it costs $3.95
for 3 plants or $7.50 for 6.  Their planting guide says "for a shady,
even dry spot.  The foliage is fragrant.  BTW:  I'm not affilated with
Bluestone Perennials in anyway.  I just order from them annually to help
out my new house owner budget!

Ruth Evans
     __             ___        __
__  ////\  /\/\  /\/ _//\ __  /// | Anne McCaffrey: Master Word Crafter|
\\\//// '\/    \/ / /\/ '\\\\///  | Princess:  Cutest Wiggle Tail Ever!|
 \XX/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\__/\/\/ \XX/   | revans@vrb.com or revans@msbbs.com |


From revans@msbbs.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:10 EST 1995
Article: 58212 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!news.xmission.com!news
From: revans@msbbs.com (Ruth Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Milkweed--where to fi
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 12:18:27
Organization: CCUBB (A Great BBS)
Lines: 10
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <19950312.79A67C8.B254@msbbs.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: msbbs.com
Status: O
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>>steven@rain.org () wrote:
>>>
>>> I would like to know where Milkweed can be obtained?  I work at a ga
>>> center and none of my plant material suppliers have it.  Can someone
>>> me the botanical name?  I can't find it in the most basic garden boo
>>> Sunset is useless, much to my surprise.  Thanks in advance.
>>>

Milkweed is kind of a generic name for plants that produce a "milk."
There are many different kinds.


From t12dl7h@ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:11 EST 1995
Article: 58213 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: t12dl7h@ix.netcom.com (Timothy Hostetler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Paw Paw tree???
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:25:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jvhr7$fs2@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3jverm$phj@deep.rsoft.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-col1-04.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In <3jverm$phj@deep.rsoft.bc.ca> Gordon Croft 
<Gordon_Croft@Mindlink.bc.ca> writes: 

>
>Anyone know anything about the Paw Paw tree?
>
>It is suppose to grow on the west coast of Canada (where we live) but
>I know nothing of the quality of the fruit.

Grows wild in Ohio.  Quite popular some years ago with the Indians.  
It's got big leaves.  Grows in shaded areas...under the canopy so to 
speak...in woods around here.  I've never eaten the fruit but the 
munchkins in the woods (sqirrels, deer, etc) supposedly do.  Of course, 
the "wildlife" around here will eat a Big Mac if you give it to them.
-Tim-


From ba600@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 12 22:25:12 EST 1995
Article: 58214 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ba600
From: ba600@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Mike Kenzie)
Subject: Help with VERMI-composting
Message-ID: <D5CDMJ.Iwv@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ba600@freenet3.carleton.ca (Mike Kenzie)
Reply-To: ba600@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Mike Kenzie)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 19:18:19 GMT
Lines: 29
Status: O
X-Status: 

Well it's ben 3 months since the last fiasco when I tried to harvest the
compost, I need some advise on how to get the compot out from the worms.
 The last time I noticed a large number of eggs, and young worms in the
compost so I put it aside to let them hatch and grow, now I have 2 containers.

How can I get the worms out of the compost?

How long does it take for the eggs to hatch?

Is there an easy way to get the uncomposted material out of the finished
product?

Can it be put back it with the worms for a second try?

Are there some things that even the worms won't eat?
They seem to have trouble with the boston fern "roots" and some plant leaves.

Can the compost be used directly on my house plants?

I've found that the shredded news paper gets matted down, is there a
better bedding material?

I've found that by placing a moist newspaper over the top of the compost
I've eliminated the fruitfly problem, as well as the mushrooms.
--
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From june4@interaccess.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:13 EST 1995
Article: 58215 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!interaccess!fd25.net.interaccess.com!june4
From: June Meyer <june4@interaccess.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christine Owens postings
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:26:55 GMT
Organization: Creative Services
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jvhtv$2le@nntp.interaccess.com>
References: <grumbo.347.012C7C64@niagara.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fd25.net.interaccess.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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X-XXMessage-ID: <AB88A738F5029019@fd25.net.interaccess.com>
X-XXDate: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 19:27:20 GMT
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <grumbo.347.012C7C64@niagara.com> Ian, grumbo@niagara.com
writes:
>I am impressed Christine.. U had an answer for EVERYONE ;^}


I learned more from Christine's multi postings than I did in a semester
of study. Thanks Christine.


From sean@pathfinder.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:14 EST 1995
Article: 58216 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail
From: Sean Callahan <sean@pathfinder.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW site
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:54:23 GMT
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3jvjhf$bf0@alterdial.UU.NET>
References: <3jv1el$42q@paperboy.ids.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.171.143.115
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
To: stephenc33@ids.net
X-URL: news:3jv1el$42q@paperboy.ids.net
Status: O
X-Status: 

The Virtual Garden has - literally - thousands of WWW pages. The 
illustrated encyclopedia has 1,500 alone. You can read the gardening 
content of Southern Living and Sunset magazines, excerpts from garden 
books, download how-to garden projects as Acrobat files. There's a house 
plant pavillion with its own illustrated directory and much more every 
week.

If your new to the online world, this is the place to start.

Sean Callahan   sean@pathfinder.com
Managing Editor, Time Life Digital
Visit the Virtual Garden at http://pathfinder.com/vg




From Hornung@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Sun Mar 12 22:25:15 EST 1995
Article: 58217 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!slip-23-7.ots.utexas.edu!user
From: Hornung@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Bill Hornung)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Growing Lichens
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:57:56 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <Hornung-1203951359430001@slip-23-7.ots.utexas.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-23-7.ots.utexas.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

Does anybody know how to grow/plant lichens on rock?  I am building a rock
garden in my back yard.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Bill


From jasonp@u.washington.edu Sun Mar 12 22:25:16 EST 1995
Article: 58218 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!nntp.cac.washington.edu!jasonp
From: jasonp@u.washington.edu (Jason Petteway)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: The "Fly" Plant
Date: 10 Mar 1995 20:47:39 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3jqdtb$gui@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: homer20.u.washington.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

Help!

I bought a great plant from a local nursery last year.  They labeled it 
only as the "fly plant."  It is a great annual plant, obviously related 
to the tomatillos, tomatoes, and ground cherries (Solanum sp) because it 
has somewhat similar leaves and after a flower fades, it makes a 
tomatillo-like berry in a husk.  The plant gets about 2 feet high and is 
covered all summer with upright-facing sky blue flowers, not unlike a 
datura or even a morningglory flower. 

I've searched and searched for a botanical ("scientific") name, it grows 
easily from seed, does anyone have more information on this great performer?

Thanks!

Jason



From runderwo@plains.NoDak.edu Sun Mar 12 22:25:17 EST 1995
Article: 58219 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!ns1.nodak.edu!plains!runderwo
From: runderwo@plains.NoDak.edu (Robert Underwood)
Subject: Salt-bush
Sender: usenet@ns1.nodak.edu (Usenet login)
Message-ID: <D58rvD.CBI@ns1.nodak.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 20:35:37 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host: plains.nodak.edu
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Lines: 11
Status: O
X-Status: 

Can anyone give me a source to purchase salt-bush shrubs for a 
shelterbelt planting in alkalyi soils?

If so please e-mail me or post a folowup.  

Thank you, 

>From the Forests of North Dakota!

Bob Underwood, Urban Forestry,  NDSU-Bottineau



From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Sun Mar 12 22:25:18 EST 1995
Article: 58220 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seeking
Date: 10 Mar 1995 21:04:16 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3jqesg$2vm@post.its.mcw.edu>
References: <billyz-0903950929360001@ip016.lax.primenet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac7.crc.mcw.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

billyz@primenet.com (BillyZee) wrote:
>
> Growing up in the Midwest, there was a plant which grew along the country
> fencerows we called Bittersweet- sorry, I don't know the botanical term.
> It is used as an autumnn decoration and has small bright orange berries
> that bloom out of a tan pod. Branches are 1-2 feet long.  I have been
> searching for plantstock of this for months to plant in Northern
> California. No luck. Does ANYBODY have any information on what this is
> really called and where I can acquire stock or seed? Thanks for any help.
> E-mail   billyz@primenet.com

Here in the midwest (Wisconsin), the common bittersweet is Celastrus
scandens.  Most garden catalogs carry it and it may be offered under 
the name C. orbiculare.  Two named cultivars are Indian Brave (male)
and Indian Maiden (female), so here I should warn you that bittersweet
has male and female flowers. on different plants and if you are 
buying unsexed plants, it's best to buy 3 or 4 just to make sure that
you get the attractive fruit that you seek.
Don Martinson				
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu



From jmv@cci.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:20 EST 1995
Article: 58221 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!udel!rochester!rit!sunsrvr6!jmv
From: jmv@cci.com (James Villard)
Subject: Vegetable Plants From Seeds - NOT!
Message-ID: <D58o6q.8uz@sunsrvr6.cci.com>
Sender: root@sunsrvr6.cci.com (Operator)
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc., D&OS
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 19:16:02 GMT
Lines: 59
Status: O
X-Status: 




Last year I tried growing vegetables from seeds. I read several books
on the subject - but seemed to do everthing wrong. I planted tomatoes
and peppers from seeds because I was told these were very easy to do.


1) I used peat pots instead of the plastic pots. When it was time to 
   transplant no matter how careful I was every pot broke open and 
   all the roots spilled out. 

2) I used 2 shop lights for a total of 160 watts of power only about
   six inches away from the pots. When the plant started to grow they
   were long and stringy - I was told I needed more light. They also
   grew straight at the nearest light curving the stems - I tried rotating
   them every few days - finally they look like a silly straw. Yes I
   tin foiled all the way around. 

3) I was told both seeds would germinate at room temperature - only the 
   tomato plants did I had the heat up the pepper seeds to get them to
   germinate. 

4) They did not seem to grow much. The first 2 weeks they did great - then
   after about 2 - 3 inches high - they just stopped growing - nice and
   green but didn't grow any more.


5) Another thing I don't get is the cost, the trays, the seeds, the soil.
   The electricity is 12 weeks,16 hours a day,160watts, $0.11 a kilowatt.
   That comes up to $23.65 just for electric. 

   I can get good solid plants for $1.99 for 6 - thats at least 72 plants
   I can buy from the store from the money for the electric.



Am I missing something or is growing plants from seeds very hard to do
and only for fun and not economically a good idea. 

I live in Rochester N.Y. (upstate)

I would like to try it again this year - I think I would enjoy it but the 
how-to books really put me on the wrong track. Last year I tried the hi-tech
expensive way of growing seeds - purchasing everything I needed. 

Is it possible to just get some good outside topsoil, seed it and put it 
in the window. Whats the best thing to use for containers, I am looking 
at about 40 tomato plants and 20 pepper plants. Is the March and April
sun in upstate N.Y. even strong enough of should I just forget about it. 

 ___________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                           |
|  James M. Villard                         E-mail: jmv@cci.com             |
|___________________________________________________________________________|






From keziak@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:21 EST 1995
Article: 58222 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: keziak@aol.com (Kezia K)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: witch hazel bloom time - update
Date: 12 Mar 1995 15:15:08 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3jvkoc$o1v@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: keziak@aol.com (Kezia K)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi all --

A while ago I asked when witch hazel bloomed, and it sounded like most
bloomed in the fall.  Well, mine is blooming now!  It's very pretty,with
lemon yellow flowers.  I think it's virginiana.

Also have pussy willows in open bud.

KeziaK
Northern VA


From nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca Sun Mar 12 22:25:23 EST 1995
Article: 58223 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!nadine
From: nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca (Nadine Leenders)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Yellow Leaves on Impatients
Date: 10 Mar 1995 20:59:33 GMT
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jqejl$1ip0@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
References: <3jiqce$hli@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3jl520$r38@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> <1995Mar8.170535.39904@cobra.uni.edu> <3jpool$nlo@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: solstice.ucs.ualberta.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

Susan Sanders (ssanders@umich.edu) wrote:
: In article <3jiqce$hli@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> Nadine Leenders,
: nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca writes:
: >I've got some Impatients plants that are about 2 months old that
: >have the occasional leaf at the top of the plant turning yellow.

: Another suggestion:  What kind of lights are they under and how close are
: they?  Is it possible those upper leaves are getting too warm?       
: -Sue Sanders

They're about 2-3" from fluorescent lights, I think they should be fine
temp wise if about 80F is OK.  The roots might be significantly cooler
than the tops because of the drafts in the room.

--

Nadine Leenders                    | nadine.leenders@ualberta.ca
Computing and Network Services     | (403) 492-9349
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada   T6G 2H1



From stinson@access.thegroup.net Sun Mar 12 22:25:25 EST 1995
Article: 58224 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!noc.thegroup.net!access.thegroup.net!stinson
From: stinson@access.thegroup.net (KPBS)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Border plants...
Date: 10 Mar 1995 21:02:44 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: access.thegroup.net
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From rshiell@mcube.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:26 EST 1995
Article: 58225 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcomsv!uucp3.netcom.com!mcube.com!rshiell
Subject: Re: Camellias
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rshiell@mcube.com
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 11:12:38 EST
Message-ID: <7788229316402@mcube.com>
Organization: Desert Jewel On-Line Mall
Lines: 27
Status: O
X-Status: 


Contact a local garden center to find out where you can have a soil
text done.  Dig out a sample of soil by the camellias as directed, and
see what they tell you.

Chances are the soil is too alkaline, or lacking in some trace
element.  If you haven't been fertilizing the soil, it could even be
a nutrient deficiency.

If the flower buds you mentioned are as big as hazelnuts, they're
flower buds.  If the buds are elongated, about the size of half an
almond meat (cut lengthwise), they're just leaf buds.

IJ>I've had my camellia for about 2 years now and each winter it produces
IJ>buds which never bloom.  I don't know if the location is too shady or if
IJ>it is the soil (which I plan to check soon).  I would appreciate any
IJ>information to help my camellia produce flowers!

Richard Shiell, ASLA    Bakersfield, CA         RShiell@mcube.com
---
 ţ SLMR 2.1a ţ Old gardeners don't die, they just go to seed.

--
Mainframes, Minis & Micros     |     Running MajorBBS and Internet!
5630 District Blvd.   #114     |     Desert Jewel BBS & OnLine Mall
Bakersfield, CA      93313     |     Discounted Hardware & Software
LandLine  ==  800-949-1959     |     BBS == 805-397-2063 14.4 n-8-1


From sfo@bu.edu Sun Mar 12 22:25:28 EST 1995
Article: 58226 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!purdue!news.bu.edu!sfo
From: sfo@bu.edu (Samme Orwig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Milkweed--where to fi
Date: 12 Mar 1995 20:36:24 GMT
Organization: Boston University
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jvm08$juc@news.bu.edu>
References: <19950312.79A67C8.B254@msbbs.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: acs2.bu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]
Status: O
X-Status: 

Asclepias ... commonly offered as asclepias tuberosa,
with "Gay Butterflies" among the most extroverted
with its bold colors.


Ruth Evans (revans@msbbs.com) wrote:
: >>steven@rain.org () wrote:
: >>>
: >>> I would like to know where Milkweed can be obtained?  I work at a ga
: >>> center and none of my plant material suppliers have it.  Can someone
: >>> me the botanical name?  I can't find it in the most basic garden boo
: >>> Sunset is useless, much to my surprise.  Thanks in advance.
: >>>

: Milkweed is kind of a generic name for plants that produce a "milk."
: There are many different kinds.


From nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca Sun Mar 12 22:25:30 EST 1995
Article: 58227 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!nadine
From: nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca (Nadine Leenders)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Starting seeds using an electric blanket as a soil warmer
Date: 12 Mar 1995 20:47:09 GMT
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 30
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mark (markm@nwlink.com) wrote:
: briana@tc.fluke.COM (Brian Aikins) wrote:
: >
: > 
: > 
: > I'm thinking of starting vegetable seeds in watertight domed 
: > trays (flats) resting on a folded electric blanket set to
: > keep the soil at 70 degrees F.  I'll have to confirm that
: > inner layers of the blanket don't get too hot.  The ambient
: > room temperature is 58 to 65 degrees.
: > 
: > Is this a good idea or a really bad idea?  Has anyone tried this?
: > Other suggestions for a temporary low cost seed warmer?

: I have used a heating pad for years and it has worked great though it

I used a heating pad once, too.  I also had a thingy for measuring the soil
temp and turning off the pad if it got too warm.  This year I measured the
heat under my lights and found out from the experts here on the net that
the heat from the lights was enough without any extra heat source, for the
type of plant I'm growing.

--

Nadine Leenders                    | nadine.leenders@ualberta.ca
Computing and Network Services     | (403) 492-9349
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada   T6G 2H1



From jpgallatin@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:32 EST 1995
Article: 58228 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: jpgallatin@aol.com (JPGallatin)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: State Arboretum of Virginia
Date: 12 Mar 1995 15:52:35 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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We strongly support the State Arboretum of Virginia.  We would like to use
Internet to spread the word about major events at the Arboretum.  Any
other ideas?  


From H_TAYLOR@delphi.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:33 EST 1995
Article: 58229 of rec.gardens
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From: H_TAYLOR@delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: subscribe
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 22:19:55 -0500
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subscribe


From mms@tucson.princeton.edu Sun Mar 12 22:25:36 EST 1995
Article: 58230 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uop!pacbell.com!gw2.att.com!gw1.att.com!princeton!tucson.princeton.edu!mms
From: mms@tucson.princeton.edu (Margaret M. Steinbugler)
Subject: Re: Is "Roundup" Good for Ind. Weeds? (Was: Lawn)
Message-ID: <1995Mar9.211518.15011@Princeton.EDU>
Originator: news@hedgehog.Princeton.EDU
Sender: news@Princeton.EDU (USENET News System)
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Someone (sorry, I lost the name) wrote:
>
>I have used Round Up and have never had a problem with it.  It becomes  
>inactive when it comes into contact with soil and leaves no residue.  It  
>can, however, kill any plant that it comes in contact with and should  
>never be used around streams and ponds.  I am not sure how long the  
>chemical stays active on the leaves after application.
>
>In general its a fairly safe chemical.
>sdb

Question:  Is Roundup good as a spot week killer, say, for spraying
dandelions as they come up in the lawn?  Would it kill too much
of the surrounding grass?  Is there a better way to get rid of
dandelions than pulling (which keeps me from weeding the garden) (-: ?

Margaret Steinbugler
mms@princeton.edu



From mcalvert@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA Sun Mar 12 22:25:40 EST 1995
Article: 58231 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!spartan.ac.BrockU.CA!mcalvert
From: mcalvert@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Murray Brain Calvert)
Subject: Re: Seeking "Bittersweet", the plant
Message-ID: <1995Mar10.180439.4938@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 18:04:39 GMT
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BillyZee (billyz@primenet.com) wrote:
: Growing up in the Midwest, there was a plant which grew along the country
: fencerows we called Bittersweet- sorry, I don't know the botanical term.
: It is used as an autumnn decoration and has small bright orange berries
: that bloom out of a tan pod. Branches are 1-2 feet long.  I have been
: searching for plantstock of this for months to plant in Northern
: California. No luck. Does ANYBODY have any information on what this is
: really called and where I can acquire stock or seed? Thanks for any help.
: E-mail   billyz@primenet.com

Sounds like Bittersweet Nightshade (Solanum dulcamera). Related to the 
tomato, but berries are poisonous. It grows wild along the fencerows in
Ontario, with purple and yellow flowers, generally pointing downward.
Berries are egg-shaped, about 1/2 inch long, in clusters of a dozen or more.
It would be hard to find seed now, but I could collect some in the fall
for planting next spring.

Brian Calvert (mcalvert@spartan.ac.brocku.ca)



From dchen@ctp.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:42 EST 1995
Article: 58232 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!psinntp!ctp!ctp!news
From: dchen@ctp.com (Denys Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Organic Lawn Care
Date: 12 Mar 1995 16:03:16 -0500
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners
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Question 1: What is the most effective organic lawn fertilizer ?
A local home store recommended Milorganite (6-2-0). It's from 
Milorganite Division - MMSD, Milwaukee. It claims to be "organic".
One other fertilizer I saw at local store is Lawn Restore (10-2-6)
from Ringer Corp. of Minneapolis. The product is claimed to be 
"Natural". (Is that different from organic ?) Does anyone have any 
expereince with these two fertilizers ? Is it effective ? Or do you
know any other organic fertilizer you'd recommend ?

Question 2: My lawn is being attacke by, I think, moles. They dig
conical holes of 1 to 2 inch in diameter and about 1 to 2 inch deep
on my lawn. The lawn is next to a wooded land, thus it's not a 
feasible solution to trap or kill the moles. So I have to kill the 
grubs under my lawn. But I want to do it organically. I heard about
milky spore desease. But, again, the local home store recommend
a new *organic* pestcide called Biosafe. Has anyone used the new 
product ? Is it effective and is it really organic ?

Reply by e-mail (dchen@ctp.com) preferred but posting is fine.

Thank you in advance.

-- 
 /\/\ |Denys Chen           dchen@ctp.com | 
/ /_.\|Cambridge Technology Partners, Inc.|     Be OO or be SQUARE.   
\  /./|304 Vassar St.  Cambridge, MA 02139|  
 \/\/ |Desk:617 374-8271  Fax:617 374-8300|


From tigibson@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:44 EST 1995
Article: 58233 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Help with VERMI-composting
Date: 12 Mar 1995 16:53:28 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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i just started my worm bin and i need to know how much moisture to
provide. the book i've read is really unclear about it.
help!!

tigibson


From marlap1041@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:45 EST 1995
Article: 58234 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: marlap1041@aol.com (MarlaP1041)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: last frost date for Boston?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 17:01:34 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I live on the Cape and I don't plant tender things out until Memorial Day.


From LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU Sun Mar 12 22:25:46 EST 1995
Article: 58235 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!VM.TEMPLE.EDU!LEAPDJWV
From: LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: vegetable plants for containers
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 16:49:59 EST
Organization: Temple University
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <1735FECBCS86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
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In article <3jt9io$gi4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
accord@ibm.net writes:
 
>In <3jn1r6$4au@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, lexloci1@aol.com (LEX LOCI 1) writes:
>>Can anyone give me some good varieties of
>>vegetables(tomatoes,greens,herbs,spinach) that will grow well in
>>containers in an urban garden,specifically Philadelphia?
 
I've grown a variety of tomatoes and lots of that green leafy stuff
I add to a salad.  Last year my raised beds were much, much smaller
than my "need to get in" list so many of the plants I couldn't find
homes for - I gave plants at the office and other gatherings - went
into containers.  I drafted lots of 2nd use buckets from bulk bird
seed purchases and construction projects - nothing fancy.  I had
eggplants, beans, peppers * *.  I treated them similar to their sister
plants in the raised beds - additional watering was required - and
saw little difference in their development or produce.
 
I think I was lucky gardening just across the river from you.
 
I have noticed a number of seed catalogs with specific recomendations
for container gardening.  I had seen such recomendations from Shepherd's
and spoke with Renee Shepherd at the Philadelphia flower show and she
confirmed their experience and suggested I container garden with more
judicious selection.


From LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU Sun Mar 12 22:25:48 EST 1995
Article: 58236 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!VM.TEMPLE.EDU!LEAPDJWV
From: LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Germination Problems
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 17:07:07 EST
Organization: Temple University
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <1735FF0C3S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
References: <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3jtnae$ast@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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This is my first real effort.  All went well, seeds selected, mix
just right, paper pots crafted and heat source to keep all warm
- seeds planted and notes made.  Everything moist and enclosed in
plactic.  Only 3 days later I noticed some white fungal growth.
Off came the plastic and within 2 days most of the white stuff
is gone.  I've kept the medium moist.  A number of herbs have
sprouted and otherwise all looks well.
 
Do I have a problem?


From LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU Sun Mar 12 22:25:50 EST 1995
Article: 58237 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!news.kei.com!eff!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!VM.TEMPLE.EDU!LEAPDJWV
From: LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Saving Seeds Not Used This Year
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 17:18:25 EST
Organization: Temple University
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <1735FF367S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
References: <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3jtnae$ast@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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I've started some seeds with plans for more.  I won't use all
the seeds in a packet.  Some will be used for successive planting
but what to do with the leftovers?  How do I store them?
 
I understand seeds can be used a year later and in the past I was
given seeds saved by a friend's father years ago.  Do seed savers
have some magic process?
 


From azureus@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:51 EST 1995
Article: 58238 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: azureus@aol.com (Azureus)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Identifying fungus, wildflowers
Date: 12 Mar 1995 17:28:27 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I went for a walk in my woods today, and I saw a type of fungus
I've never seen before.  It was covering the forest floor, attatched to
dead wood, and seemed to be flourishing, even though last week was
very cold and snowy.  Each fungus was *bright* red on the inside, and
a dusty pink on the out side.  It was vaugely cup-shaped, and very
fleshy--it reminded me of red bell peppers.  Does this sound familiar
to any fungus fanatics out there?  The land is located in Iowa, close to
the Missouri river, zone 4 or 5, I can never figure out which one we're
in.  My second question is, can anyone reccommend a good field guide for
Iowa (or Midwest) wildflowers and other native plants?  

Thanks,

April


From stephie@olympus.net Sun Mar 12 22:25:53 EST 1995
Article: 58239 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!nwnexus!olympus.net!olympus.net!stephie
From: stephie@olympus.net (Stephanie Hilt)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Greenhouse Supplies
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 09:36:59 UNDEFINED
Organization: Internet for the Olympic Peninsula
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <stephie.7.00540C39@olympus.net>
References: <3jln3c$khq@tadpole.fc.hp.com> <proc-1003950046510001@pm1-10.skypoint.net>
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In article <proc-1003950046510001@pm1-10.skypoint.net> proc@skypoint.com writes:
>From: proc@skypoint.com
>Subject: Re: Greenhouse Supplies
>Date: 10 Mar 1995 06:49:55 GMT

>In article <3jln3c$khq@tadpole.fc.hp.com>, craig_robson@fc.hp.com wrote:

>> I'm looking for a mailorder source for greenhouse supplies.   I'm looking
>> for equipment sources not seed sources.
	
Just received catalogue I order from 'Charley's Greenhouse Supply', 1569 
Memorial Hwy., Mount Vernon, WA  98273.  Ph: 1-800-322-4707.   Great catalogue 
for amateur and professional greenhouse supplies.


From jcannoy@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:56 EST 1995
Article: 58240 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: jcannoy@aol.com (JCannoy)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Camellias
Date: 12 Mar 1995 17:38:28 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Richard,

Thanks for the camellia tips!   I do have flower buds that look like
hazelnuts, so at least I'm on the right track.  Now all I need to do is
check the soil, which is a gray-blue clay.  The cooperative extension
nearby would probably do a test.  

Thanks again!

Sherrie


From dchen@ctp.com Sun Mar 12 22:25:58 EST 1995
Article: 58241 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!psinntp!ctp!ctp!news
From: dchen@ctp.com (Denys Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mole euphoria (they're doomed)
Date: 12 Mar 1995 17:30:24 -0500
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners
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In article <jbuckley-0803951328090001@mac92.btg.com> jbuckley@btg.com (Jeremy Buckley) writes:
>After years of battling the little burrowers with smoke bombs, pinwheels,
>and poisons (which I am loathe to use), I think I've found the answer, and
>it's spelled N-a-s-h.  My Nash mole trap from Mellinger's arrived
>yesterday.  I quickly unwrapped it, planted it in my back yard, and had my
>first victim in a matter of hours.   

My problem is I can't find their burrows. My lawn is surrounded by about
one acre's wooded land and covered with several inches' oak leaves. 
Anybody has any graet experience to share with me about how to find modle
burrows ? Those said on the package of a modle trap isn't effective enough
to me. 

Congratulations Jeremy. I am so bothered by the moles. They dig at least
50 or 60 holes on my 9000 squar feet lawn each day.

BTW, will keeping my yard lighted overnight deter the moles ? 
I also cat can catch or deter moles too; although I feel it's not very
nice to keep your cat outdoors in a cold evening.


-- 
 /\/\ |Denys Chen           dchen@ctp.com | 
/ /_.\|Cambridge Technology Partners, Inc.|     Be OO or be SQUARE.   
\  /./|304 Vassar St.  Cambridge, MA 02139|  
 \/\/ |Desk:617 374-8271  Fax:617 374-8300|


From stephie@olympus.net Sun Mar 12 22:25:59 EST 1995
Article: 58242 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!nwnexus!olympus.net!olympus.net!stephie
From: stephie@olympus.net (Stephanie Hilt)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Request for software
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 09:44:30 UNDEFINED
Organization: Internet for the Olympic Peninsula
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <stephie.8.005AEAE5@olympus.net>
References: <3jibcb$94h@lace.Colorado.EDU>
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In article <3jibcb$94h@lace.Colorado.EDU> mwrisner@eclat.uccs.edu (AtlantaMan) writes:
>From: mwrisner@eclat.uccs.edu (AtlantaMan)
>Subject: Request for software
>Date: 7 Mar 1995 19:15:22 GMT

> A friend of mine wants to post a request.

>Are there any images on CD ROM or diskettes of actual shrubberies,
>flowers, trees, and the like?  He's planning on using the images to
>complement visual landscaping designs on the Mac.

>Any input would be appreciated.  E-Mail at mwrisner@uccs.edu

Check with Sunset Magazine.  I just ordered their 'Western Garden Book' on CD 
ROM.  Though I noticed you are from Atlanta, I'm sure it will be available in 
your area as well. Sorry I don't have the phone# or address(it was on the 
order form I mailed in). Hope this helps.


From chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org Sun Mar 12 22:26:01 EST 1995
Article: 58243 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!nwcs!chenaya.strutton
From: chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org (Chenaya Strutton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: seedlings for kids
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 19:05:00 GMT
Message-ID: <9503101538327975@nwcs.org>
Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA
Distribution: world
References: <jgolden.18.000C9D9B@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil>
Lines: 22        
Status: O
X-Status: 

JG>From: jgolden@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil (Joel Golden)
  >What's a good plant for a class of kids to sprout seeds?

  I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions for this...

  Radishes, marigolds, leaf-type lettuce, sunflower and alyssum come to
  mind. And while I think about it, I rememder being enthralled by corn
  and bean seeds that were sprouted in glass jars. If I remember right,
  you rolled up stiff paper towels (the kind most schools have) and set
  them upright in a jar so the paper conforms to the shape of the jar.
  Then stuffed crumpled paper towels into the center to hold it in
  place. Then added enough water so that the paper stayed wet but not
  soggy. Then put bean or corn seeds that had soaked in water over-night
  in the jars, against the glass about half way up. You might have to
  add more paper towels to hold everything in place. Anyway, I thought
  that was great as a kid and I think I was even able to plant them in
  the garden after the project was done where they were promptly eaten
  by cutworms. From such memories, a gardener (or bug stomper) is made.

                        Cheryl
---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Someone, please, stop me before I plant again!


From chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org Sun Mar 12 22:26:06 EST 1995
Article: 58244 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!nwcs!chenaya.strutton
From: chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org (Chenaya Strutton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bird feeder without weeds
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 17:17:00 GMT
Message-ID: <9503101538317972@nwcs.org>
Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA
Distribution: world
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PN>From: pnash@metronet.com (Pat Nash)
  >I have a bird feeder in my back yard (currently over grass, but I will
  >soon have a garden area for it).  The birds are VERY sloppy eaters and
  >throw half of the seed overboard while they are eating!  Any suggestions
  >on keeping these seeds from germinating - mulch, brick base, etc.?

PN>Patrick Nash
  >pnash@metronet.com
    Well, it depends on how energetic you feel. We feed only black oily
  sunflower seeds in our feeders with a few hand fulls of chick scratch
  scattered around. The chick scratch is very small pieces of corn that
  can't germinate, and the sunflower seeds don,t go far from the feeder.
  Every so often, I go out with a scoop shovel or spading fork and
  remove the shells along with the seeds that do sprout (the stuff seems
  to form a soft mat and handles about like manure) and toss the mess
  into my compost pile (if you do this, make sure your pile is hot
  enough or you'll have seeds sprouting everywhere).
    If you don't want to fool around that much, Check with your local
  bird shop or feed store and ask them for shelled broken sunflower
  seeds. I've never used them myself, but I understand they don't
  sprout.
    We've set up our garden with the idea of attracting birds and other
  wildlife and so a lot of the joy we get from our garden in the winter
  comes from watching them roam through it.
    Hope that helps you. Enjoy.

        Cheryl "Turning The Compost Pile Is My Life" Kuhnert

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Someone, please, stop me before I plant again!


From chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org Sun Mar 12 22:26:07 EST 1995
Article: 58245 of rec.gardens
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From: chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org (Chenaya Strutton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bees, how to keep them aw
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 18:10:00 GMT
Message-ID: <9503101538327973@nwcs.org>
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DR>From: rubin@infinet.com (Danial Rubin)
  >Hi All,

DR>I have a problem with bees nesting around my apartment's patio.  The
  >patio is surrounded by trees and there seems to be an abnormal amount
  >of bees nesting around the area.  Last summer there was a nest inside
  >a wall mounted patio light.  Is there any way that I can do something
   It kind of depends by what you consider BEES. Honey bees shouldn't be
 a problem since they aren,t normally aggressive. But if the are, any
 local bee keeper would be glad to come and get them if the problem is a
 wild hive or swarm. Bumble bees aren't usually aggressive either unless
 you disturb the nest. However, if you have any of the many types of
 yellow-jacket hornets, they are often VERY aggressive. We have a mostly
 organic garden but yellow-jackets are one of the only things I would
 use insecticide on if I could reach the nest (However, if someone out
 there knows how to kill a nest safely without poison, I'd love to read
 it.). Since you're in an apartment, and yellow-jackets can be
 dangerous, I'd first ask the landlord to deal with nests on the
 property. If you do have to deal with yellow-jackets yourself, get one
 of the jet-type sprays that are made just for hornets. Wait till dark,
 spray the stuff directly into the hole and run like crazy (I'm not
 kidding). If you simply don't want to use any poisons (I don't blame
 you), you can put out baited traps (no electric zappers please, they
 kill everything). Used early in the season, you might catch some of the
 young queens just starting out and prevent a nest from forming later.
 Used later in the season, I'm not sure how much good they really do,
 mostly revenge I think. This is from Portland, Oregon and we had a bad
 problem with yellow-jackets in our garden last year. Sometimes we
 could see at least 200 or more buzzing the compost pile, searching for
 prey. They made it impossible to turn the compost pile (Wait a
 minute, I think I've got something there. The perfect excuse...). This
 year, we'll be putting out the baited traps early and I plan to WHAP
 every yellow-jacket I can reach.
   Wow, did I ramble...

   Anyway, I hope that helps...  I certainly feel better.

                                    Cheryl
---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Someone, please, stop me before I plant again!


From chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org Sun Mar 12 22:26:09 EST 1995
Article: 58246 of rec.gardens
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From: chenaya.strutton@nwcs.org (Chenaya Strutton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: tomato worms
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 18:25:00 GMT
Message-ID: <9503101538327974@nwcs.org>
Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA
Distribution: world
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LE>Years ago someone told me that the stripes on a tomato worm were
  >florescent under ultra violet light.  Since I am one to never leave a
  >bizarre remedy untested I set out one night with the UV light from an EPROM
   >eraser (never mind what that is - think of it a a blacklight on

    Great story Lynn... nearly snorted my morning coffee reading it :)

                                 Cheryl
---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Someone, please, stop me before I plant again!


From ulbrich@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Sun Mar 12 22:26:11 EST 1995
Article: 58247 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ulbrich@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu
Subject: RE: MILKWEED
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu
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    Growing up on a farmer, fighting the milkweeds. I never thought anyone
would ever want to grow them. I live in southeastern Ohio, if your looking
for Milkweed with blue flowers, we have more than we need or want. I would
be able to get them until seasons in, but if you tell me how to get seeds
properly. I'd be more than glad to send them to you.

                                             Lisa


From phil@cyberspace.com Sun Mar 12 22:26:12 EST 1995
Article: 58248 of rec.gardens
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From: Phil@cyberspace.com (Phil Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: gardening and landscaping
Date: 11 Mar 1995 00:58:47 GMT
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Does anyone have pictures or know places to go to view gardening
and landscaping to get ideas?


From cmay@Direct.CA Sun Mar 12 22:26:13 EST 1995
Article: 58249 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!hookup!news.Direct.CA!usenet
From: Colleenmay <cmay@Direct.CA>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Hanging Baskets--Moss
Date: 11 Mar 1995 00:58:24 GMT
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Hi Gardeners!  Here in Vancouver, B.C. we've
been experiencing shifts back and forth between
Spring and Winter...

Does anyone have a design for THE MOST BEAUTIFUL 
hanging moss basket ever?   Shade or sun loving...

I would like  vibrant, blousy, lush, to describe
the finished project.

Thank you

Colleen...cmay@direct.ca
  


From ulbrich@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Sun Mar 12 22:26:15 EST 1995
Article: 58250 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ulbrich@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu
Subject: Weedless Iris
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  Can anyone give me some suggestions on how to enjoy my iris without
the constant hassle of weeds. Any help would be great. Thanks a Million.

                                                       Lisa


From fletcher@prairienet.org Sun Mar 12 22:26:17 EST 1995
Article: 58251 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW site
Date: 12 Mar 1995 23:52:31 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
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Stephen Cotroneo (stephenc33@ids.net) wrote:
:                         Does anyone know of WWW sites on gardening.

Try out The Garden Gate and The Garden Spider's Web for lots of good 
stuff - links to sites all around the world as a well as a growing 
collection of original materials.

Enjoy!

Karen Fletcher                                     fletcher@prairienet.org
==========================================================================
The Garden Gate            http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm
The Garden Gate at SunSITE  http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm
The Garden Spider's Web    http://mirror.wwa.com/mirror/garden/spdrsweb.htm



From bgoogle@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:26:19 EST 1995
Article: 58252 of rec.gardens
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From: bgoogle@aol.com (B GOOGLE)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: DAYLILIES..
Date: 12 Mar 1995 18:41:57 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I don't know much about them, but would like to learn.


From stlouins@cnsvax.uwec.edu Sun Mar 12 22:26:21 EST 1995
Article: 58253 of rec.gardens
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From: stlouins@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seeking "Bittersweet", the plant
Date: 12 Mar 95 17:42:44 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire
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Gurney's Seed & Nursery Co., 110 Capital Street, Yankton, SD 57079
has bittersweet in its current catalog, 2 plants/offer, $6.25/offer,
less if you buy more.

Dina


From mspencer@nando.net Sun Mar 12 22:26:25 EST 1995
Article: 58254 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!parsifal.nando.net!grail615.nando.net!mspencer
From: Mary Spencer <mspencer@nando.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Should I buy worms?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 00:06:08 GMT
Organization: Eye on Government
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Well, should I buy worms? I've seen some in my soil, but for what they do
it seems that more would help out. DO I naturally have as many worms as
my organic matter can carry, or would buying more help?

Mary Spencer
Eye on Government

(919) 596-0152 Voice
(919) 596-0081 Fax
mspencer@nando.net
AOL: MarySpence


From f_rushingrg@titan.sfasu.edu Sun Mar 12 22:26:28 EST 1995
Article: 58255 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.uh.edu!titan.sfasu.edu!titan.sfasu.edu!nntp
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Source for supplies ??
Message-ID: <1995Mar10.190723.811@titan.sfasu.edu>
From: Ron Rushing <f_rushingrg@titan.sfasu.edu>
Date: 10 Mar 95 19:07:23 CST
Distribution: world
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FIrst off-- thanks to all who responded to my question about drainage.

I've decided to use a 8-10" ditch with a 3-4" perf. corregated pipe,
installed in a coarse gravel (1-1/1/2" crushed rock) bedding.  I plan to
line the ditch with "silt-proof" cloth, which will also wrap over the top
of the bedding layer below the top fill and grass.  Many folks responded
with the same general construction--a couple mentioned using the 360
degree cloth wrap of the system to keep the rock bedding and pipe for
closing up after years.  Sounds good to me-- I don't want to dig up a few
hundred feet of drain lines to start the new century <grin>.


Now-- where can I order (large) quantities of the perf. plastic pipe and
realated materials like the "silt-proof" cloth ?

I tried the nurserys in my area- no such items--not even an offer to
order any :-(. 

Catalog suppliers--preferably comercial suppliers-- seem my only
alternative.  I suspect that plubing supply houses can obtain the
pipe-two I've called have the larger pipe (8-10") for septic systems
--but no smaller.    Locating the "silt-proof" cloth may be a problem.

Thanks--



Ron Rushing
College of Education
S.F.A University
409.468.1424
rrushing@sfasu.edu
"Personal Opinions Only..."


From blw@lanl.gov Sun Mar 12 22:26:32 EST 1995
Article: 58256 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!news.sandia.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov!newshost.lanl.gov!weintraub-mac.atdiv.lanl.gov!user
From: blw@lanl.gov (Barbara W)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Hormodin rooting powder
Date: 10 Mar 1995 23:16:26 GMT
Organization: AOT-FM, LANL
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X-Status: 

I received my A. M. Leonard catalog today: "Quality tools and supplies for
the professional." Has anyone else noticed that there's only one letter
difference between "TOOLS" and "TOYS"?   (okay, well 2 letters...)

HORMODIN rooting powder is listed on page 12. Comes in 1 lb. or 1/2 lb.
tins, depending on the grade. Price ranges from $18.38 to $22.78.

#1 is for "roses, home garden and greenhouse plants" 
#2 is for "woody & semi-woody plants"
#3 is for "difficult to root varieties"

Toll free phone number for the US is (800) 543-8955. I have ordered from
them, and have appreciated their professionalism and good service.


From W.ARNETZL@LDB.han.de Sun Mar 12 22:26:33 EST 1995
Article: 58257 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!zib-berlin.de!news.cs.uni-magdeburg.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!nntp.gmd.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de!unihil!rz.uni-hildesheim.de!baghira.han.de!ldb.han.de!W.ARNETZL
From: W.ARNETZL@LDB.han.de (Wolfgang Arnetzl)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Shade gardening & books
Date: 9 Mar 95 21:47:00 +0200
Message-ID: <5hYhkam8YoB@ldb-wa.ldb.han.de>
References: <95022020502600109@moroni.cary.nc.us> <1995Feb23.165110.25443@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> <3ingmf$l06@uncle.calvin.edu>
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slen@ursa.calvin.edu wrote on 25.02.95
concerning "Re: Shade gardening & books":

s> That's the problem with a shade garden:  most of the plants have small
s> flowers that one cannot see from a distance.    What I need are
s> ideas on design.  Druse's idea that a shade garden should just grow as in
s> nature is not helpful for a person with limited space.

There are also small growing woodplants! If you want to have some   
surrounding a sitting place you may choose rhododendraceae. Younger ones  
are usually about 3 feet, older ones reach 7 feet at the most. In late  
spring/early summer they show so many blossoms that the whole bush is pure  
pink (or white or pale blue or ...). Lower growing shrubs are Anemone  
japonica. They bloom in October with white or pale pink blossoms on stalks  
about 3 feet height. Some years after planting they run wild and cover big  
areas under trees. Combine them with vinca minor or wild strawberries,  
perhaps take a blackberry-bush (if hunger strikes you...).

cheerio, special e-mail guest Steffi (please notice that I'm female and  
I'm not called Wolfgang :-) ...)





From virgilr@Everest.Tandem.COM Sun Mar 12 22:26:34 EST 1995
Article: 58258 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tandem!Everest.Tandem.COM!virgilr
From: virgilr@Everest.Tandem.COM (reichert_virgil)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bamboo Information
Date: 11 Mar 1995 01:17:57 GMT
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc., Cupertino CA
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In article <3jb1fp$71f@news.cerf.net>, gib cooper <gibcoop@cerf.net> writes:
>
>Bamboo is difficult to find. Bamboo information is even harder. I will
>gladly answer any questions on the subject. If I cannot and you are
>interested I will connect you with the "bamboo group". This is only for
>serious bambuseros.
>
>
Bamboo may be difficult to find some places, but it's much harder to get
rid of once established.  Note that I'm not against bamboo...I'm just 
against the infestation of my neighbor's bamboo into my yard via underground
runners.  I've tried digging it up, concrete, etc.  No matter what I do,
it always comes back in a couple of years.  Any suggestions would be 
appreciated.

Virgil

P.S. If you're having trouble getting bamboo, take some from my yard!


From lrm583@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:26:36 EST 1995
Article: 58259 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: lrm583@aol.com (Lrm583)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Horse Manure
Date: 10 Mar 1995 20:20:35 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: lrm583@aol.com (Lrm583)
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Status: O
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>I am planning to get several pickup truck loads of horse manure this
weekend and I haven't seen it yet.  Is there any way to tell if it's
composted enough to use as mulck on berry bushes and also to till into my
garden area other than smell?

I have used manure for several years in my garden, and can tell you
several things from personal experience.  As regards the freshness, you
should get manure that is at least two years old.  Fresh manure looks like
horse droppings, lots of round, hardish pieces in the mix.  Older manure
is broken down, and looks like very black dirt.  Also, as you mentioned,
there is a strong urine smell to fresher manure, and should not be there
if it is older.  

I would warn you, though, that for all the manure I put in my garden, I
got a wonderful crop of hay, due to the seeds that pass through the
horses, and it was very difficult to keep the hay from choking out my
vegetables.  I found another cheap alternative, which is wonderful for
gardens, and that is leaf mulch, which is only $16 a truck load, at least
in Virginia.  Good luck and hope I was of help!

LRM583@aol.com


From marcscholl@delphi.com Sun Mar 12 22:26:38 EST 1995
Article: 58260 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: Marc Scholl <marcscholl@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Plants from vegetable seeds??
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 19:20:52 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
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This may sound like a naive question, but what are the reasons, if any,
that you can't start plants from their the seeds of vegetables (peas from
nts and cucumbers) bought at frut and vegetable stands rather
than from packages of seeds?  Or can you?


From craighd@pegasus.rutgers.edu Sun Mar 12 22:26:40 EST 1995
Article: 58262 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!pegasus.rutgers.edu!not-for-mail
From: craighd@pegasus.rutgers.edu (Craig Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Name of fragrant bush?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:45:19 -0500
Organization: Rutgers University
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When I lived out in San Francisco, I used to walk past
a bush that had a wonderful fragrance-- like bubble gum.
Does anyone know what kind of bush this might be?
Also, would it be able to survive the four seasons
in the Northeast (New Jersey)?

Thanks.

		-Craig-


From bob100@ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 12 22:26:42 EST 1995
Article: 58263 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: bob100@ix.netcom.com (bob)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Date: 13 Mar 1995 00:55:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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References: <3jan0h$7v8@comet.connix.com> <3js5c4$ak6@shore.shore.net> <D5A47A.E0B@dorite.use.com> <3jttjp$1ei@thor.inlink.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-pit1-03.ix.netcom.com
Status: RO
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In <3jttjp$1ei@thor.inlink.com> raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. 
Deutschmann Sr.) writes: 

>
>Hi Bill
>The only way to go is to use Hydro-Sol and then add to that whatever 
you need.
>In any case never add or use urea or ammonium based salts.
>Gary Deutschmann, Ci hief Olericulturist, EcoTek Hydroculture, Inc.
>
>

Someone suggested planting my garden according to farm dates in the 
Farmer's Almanac.  Plant Hydroponic Crops 11-12 March.  Would someone 
please explain what these crops are.  Has anyone had success with this 
method of planting.  My garden produces nice plants but the vegetables 
are small.  I have tilled winter rye in added lime last fall.  I receive 
the morning sun alot of trees of the south side.  Thanks for any 
assistance.    Patty


From pgr@panix.com Sun Mar 12 22:26:44 EST 1995
Article: 58264 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!pgr.dialup.access.net!user
From: pgr@panix.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Sweet Olive
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 20:03:29 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
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Hello -

Years ago I had a Sweet Olive (Osmanthus Fragrans) as a house plant. I
would like to obtain another. Does anyone know of a source (mail order)?
If possible E-mail response.

Thanks much in advance

pgr@panix.com


From swell@infi.net Sun Mar 12 22:26:46 EST 1995
Article: 58265 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!usenet
From: swell@infi.net (Nancy Swell)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Brookes' address request
Date: 11 Mar 1995 01:44:10 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 14
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In article <Pine.PTX.3.91a.950306130751.12372B@carson.u.washington.edu>, Jennifer Salazar <salazarj@u.washington.edu> says:
>
>
>Does anyone know the address and/or phone number for John Brookes in 
>Bognor Regis, England?  Mr. Brookes has written many beautifully 
>illustrated books on garden design.  
>
You might check at Kew Gardens. He teaches some courses there, and I am sure
they would have his address. I have most of his books. He is simply great.
More than anyone else he has taught me a new way of looking at gardens.
Mostly to treat the spot I am standing in as a small unit, complete in 
itself, and to create a picture before moving on.

							Nancy


From jen.mayer@southwest.org Sun Mar 12 22:26:47 EST 1995
Article: 58266 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!sowest!jen.mayer
From: jen.mayer@southwest.org (Jen Mayer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 1994 SEEDS
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 23:33:00 GMT
Message-ID: <9503121708231988@southwest.org>
Organization: SouthWest Consulting - BBS Line 818-285-8684
Distribution: world
References: <1995Mar9.094853.1@iccgcc.cle.ab.com>
Lines: 8         
Status: O
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HH> I have several packets of seeds which say "Packaged for 1994'. Can I
HH> use these or should I buy new ones?

Why don't you germinate them in a jar in wet paper towels for a few days 
to see if they're going to sprout? Then you'll know. Seeds will last for 
a few years (or more) if they're kept in reasonable conditions. 

 * RM 1.3 01256 * Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.


From jen.mayer@southwest.org Sun Mar 12 22:26:48 EST 1995
Article: 58267 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!sowest!jen.mayer
From: jen.mayer@southwest.org (Jen Mayer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: CALIFORNIA STORM
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 23:43:00 GMT
Message-ID: <9503121708231989@southwest.org>
Organization: SouthWest Consulting - BBS Line 818-285-8684
Distribution: world
References: <3jr8uv$94a@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Lines: 10        
Status: O
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ES> Anyone out there have anything to say about the storm this week and
ES> their gardening efforts?  We had a fence blown down the other nite,
ES> but other than that, no real garden damage.  I was worried about
ES> some herb

Heck of a storm! We were on Hwy 99 north when the Eucalyptus trees were 
falling across the freeway. almost no damage to our gardens back home in 
Pasadena, though.

 * RM 1.3 01256 * In the immortal words of Quasimoto, "Call it a Hunch."


From nadiai@aol.com Sun Mar 12 22:26:50 EST 1995
Article: 58268 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: nadiai@aol.com (NadiaI)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Crab Grass -- how to grow??
Date: 12 Mar 1995 20:21:32 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I would like to grow crab grass for a high traffic/dog area.  Any ideas
how
I could go about this?


From grumbo@niagara.com Thu Mar 16 00:36:42 EST 1995
Article: 58269 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!niagara.com!slip3.niagara.com!grumbo
From: grumbo@niagara.com (Grahame Rumsby)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Crab Grass -- how to grow??
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 20:33:26 UNDEFINED
Organization: Internet Connect Niagara
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In article <3k06ms$sfa@newsbf02.news.aol.com> nadiai@aol.com (NadiaI) writes:
>From: nadiai@aol.com (NadiaI)
>Subject: Crab Grass -- how to grow??
>Date: 12 Mar 1995 20:21:32 -0500

>I would like to grow crab grass for a high traffic/dog area.  Any ideas
>how
>I could go about this?

Well the way I usually grow it is to lay good quality sod down, water and 
fertilize and within a year I have a good lawn full of crab grass and very 
little normal grass!!!

Sorry Nadial couldn't resist..

Grahame


From jstier@yu1.yu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:36:43 EST 1995
Article: 58270 of rec.gardens
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From: Jeff Stier <jstier@yu1.yu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: When to plant tomatoes
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 12:37:42 -0500
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
Lines: 16
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I live in North/Central N.J. (near Newark Airport) and am going to plant 
tomatoes from seed.   

Burpess says to plant them 6-8 weeks before last frost.

I have a great southern exposure indoors....
Outside the sunlight is adequate but not great.
When should I plant indoors and when should I take them out?
Thanks
******************************************************************************
Jeff Stier
jstier@yu1.yu.edu
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




From kc@tiac.net Thu Mar 16 00:36:44 EST 1995
Article: 58271 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!kc.tiac.net!user
From: kc@tiac.net (Kevin Crader)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Hormodin rooting powder
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 21:58:17 -0500
Organization: The Internet Access Company
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In article <blw-1003951624210001@weintraub-mac.atdiv.lanl.gov>,
blw@lanl.gov (Barbara W) wrote:

> I received my A. M. Leonard catalog today: "Quality tools and supplies for
> the professional." Has anyone else noticed that there's only one letter
> difference between "TOOLS" and "TOYS"?   (okay, well 2 letters...)
> 
> HORMODIN rooting powder is listed on page 12. Comes in 1 lb. or 1/2 lb.
> tins, depending on the grade. Price ranges from $18.38 to $22.78.

FYI my new Griffin Greenhouse (508-851-0012) cat says  "...When the
current supply of Hormodin is exhausted the product will be discontinued
as it is no longer manufactured." ??

kc


From hollytw@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:36:45 EST 1995
Article: 58272 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: hollytw@aol.com (HollyTW)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need Sun-Loving Annual
Date: 10 Mar 1995 21:13:59 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Vinca does well under sunny, dry conditions, as does portulaca.  In fact,
the more you ignore portulaca, the prettier it gets! 

Rotsa ruck!
Holly


From psmith@superior.carleton.ca Thu Mar 16 00:36:47 EST 1995
Article: 58273 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!ub!netfs.dnd.ca!dgbt!nott!cunews!psmith
From: psmith@superior.carleton.ca (Peter Smith)
Subject: Re: tomato worms
Message-ID: <psmith.794872597@superior>
Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Organization: Carleton University
References: <14413790.1508908@lamg.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 21:56:37 GMT
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In <14413790.1508908@lamg.com> jabes@lamg.com (Jerald Brainin) writes:

>I am looking for an effective non-toxic answer to tomato worms?????

Plant lots of dill or other small-flowered herbs around your tomato
plants.  when the herbs bloom, they attract lots of parasitic wasps
(at least for me), which will help control hornworms and other
caterpillars.

good luck


From kc@tiac.net Thu Mar 16 00:36:48 EST 1995
Article: 58274 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!kc.tiac.net!user
From: kc@tiac.net (Kevin Crader)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: indoor fluorescent lighting
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 22:08:10 -0500
Organization: The Internet Access Company
Lines: 17
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References: <D54uAy.E9x@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> <3jn480$ii9@taco.cc.ncsu.edu> <D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com> <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kc.tiac.net
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu>, dawn@pangea.Stanford.EDU
(Dawn Burgess) wrote:

 I was at Orchard Supply
> Hardware, and one of the managers there (who would have every reason to 
> want me to buy the grow lights, since they were *50* times more expensive--

Yes, they are *very* expensive. Case in point - I bought a 20" 15W
Vita-Lite for my pet turtle so she can have full-spectrum during the
winter, and that sucker set me back $25!!!

If money is no problem then HPS (high-pressure sodium) is more efficient
than floures. with higher output- but the lamps are about $250. and the
bulbs $15. "Similar to Gro-Lux and other color improved floures. compared
on equal energy" USDA sez...

Kevin


From growit@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:36:49 EST 1995
Article: 58275 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: growit@aol.com (GROWIT)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Lauries Landscape/Peonies
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:08:29 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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>I recently sent away to lauries landscape in chicago for there peony
catalog 
>but have recieved no reply has anyone else done business with them.  I 
>understand they have a herbaceous/tree peony hybrid. 

tim; i know laurie, been to her house, seen her peonies. she's a small
bizperson so don't be too alarmed if she's not terribly prompt. if you
don't hear from her in awhile, send me a message and i'll call her. bill.


From billsdone@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:36:50 EST 1995
Article: 58276 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: billsdone@aol.com (BillsDone)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: are wildflowers do-able in nice neighborhood?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:09:03 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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>From personal experience....wildflower areas are pretty when in
bloom...but otherwise look like a giant weed patch....


From klevine@cpcug.digex.net Thu Mar 16 00:36:52 EST 1995
Article: 58277 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!cpcug!klevine
From: klevine@cpcug.digex.net (Ketzel Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Going NATIVE
Date: 11 Mar 1995 02:51:18 GMT
Organization: Capital PC User Group, Inc., Rockville, Maryland, USA
Lines: 14
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  Lots of nurseries seem to have hybrids but not species azaleas :(

I LOVE THESE PLANTS but know primarily wholesale growers who don't ship.
Catalogs to try include:
                  
                  Roslyn Nursery (Long Island) 516-484-1555
                  Greer Gardens (Eugene,OR) 503-686-8266
                  Forestfarm (OR) 503-846-6963

Someone who might help further is Jim Plyler at Natural Landscapes.
He's one of THE native woodie growers in this area: 610-869-3788.
He's a one-man band & might be hard to reach (and probably doesn't ship)
but it's worth the try...he carries at least 15 species.  all the best, kl



From simone.rosa-knight@ptonline.com Thu Mar 16 00:36:53 EST 1995
Article: 58278 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!dragon!ptonline!simone.rosa-knight
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Regulation on the net
Message-ID: <8A55081.18590000AA.uuout@ptonline.com>
From: simone.rosa-knight@ptonline.com (SIMONE ROSA-KNIGHT)
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 02:09:00 -0500
Reply-To: simone.rosa-knight@ptonline.com (SIMONE ROSA-KNIGHT)
Organization: Prime Time On-Line, Alpharetta,GA  404-667-1081
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CD> @FROM   :cddunn@monk.austin.cc.tx.us
CD> @N SUBJECT:Re: Regulation on the net?

Randy, thought this might interest you enough to write your Senators!  
Simone

>I emailed my Senators.  Have you?
CD>swebb@freenet.vcu.edu wrote:
CD>: I picked up the following post on rec.music.gdead.  Although we
CD>: don't seem to "go up in flames" or get too racy in the garden,
CD>: it seems censorship may concern us all.



CD>: >                          NET REGULATION ON THE WAY?
CD>: >                                       
CD>: >    7 Mar 1995 14:54:56 -0500
CD>: >    Rutgers University
CD>: >   Post a followup article to newsgroup(s)
CD>: >   Send email reply to author: David Kuffler
CD>: >recently the following appeared in the congressional record:

CD>: >by Mr. Exon (for himself and Mr. Gorton)
CD>: >s.314 a bill to protect the public from misuse of the
CD>: >telecommunications  network and telecommunications devices and
CD>: >facilities; to the committee  on commerce, science, and
CD>: >transportation 

CD>: >THE COMMUNICATIONS DECENCY ACT

CD>: >Mr. President, I am pleased to introduce legislation to expand the
CD>: >decency provisions of the Communications Act of 1934 to clearly
CD>: >cover the  new technologies which are increasingly part of the
CD>: >American way of life.         As a strong supporter of
CD>: >telecommunications reform, I am anxious  to pass legislation which
CD>: >will free the private sector to create the  information
CD>: >superhighway.  This exciting technology will put  unprecedented
CD>: >information power into the hands of every citizen.  The
CD>: >opportunities for education, culture, and entertainment are
CD>: >limitless.         Sadly, there is a dark side to the bright 
flicker of 
CD>: >the computer  screen.  The explosion of technology also threatens
CD>: >an explosion of  misuse.  The legislation I introduce today, known
CD>: >as the COMMUNICATIONS  DECENCY ACT, establishes legal protections
CD>: >against that misuse.         It modernizes the current law against
CD>: >telecommunications misuse  in the digital age.
CD>: >        This legislation will extend and strengthen the
CD>: >protections which  exist harassing, obscene, and indecent phone
CD>: >calls to cover all such uses  of all telecommunications devices
CD>: >of and increase the penalties for misuse  the public switched
CD>: >network.         This much-needed legislation increases the
CD>: >penalties for obscene  cable and radio broadcasts.  The bill also
CD>: >insures that adult  pay-per-view programs are fully scrambled, so
CD>: >that homes which do not  subscribe to such services are not
CD>: >invaded by unwanted audio and video.   The legislation also
CD>: >prohibits the use of toll free 800 numbers from  being used as a
CD>: >ruse to charge callers or telephone numbers for adult and  other
CD>: >pay-per-call services.         In addition, the legislation
CD>: >modernizes the protections against  unauthorized eavesdropping on
CD>: >conversations, electronic or digital  communications.
CD>: >        In addition, this legislation includes provisions Senator
CD>: >Gorton  and I crafted last year to give cable operators the power
CD>: >to refuse to  transmit any public access or leased access program
CD>: >or portion of such  program which includes obscenity, indecency,
CD>: >or nudity.         Mr. President, the information superhighway
CD>: >should not become a  red light district.  This legislation will
CD>: >keep that from happening and  extend the standards of decency
CD>: >which have protected telephone users to  new telecommunications
CD>: >devices.         Once passed, our children and families will be
CD>: >better protected  from those who would electronically cruise the
CD>: >digital world to engage  children in inappropriate communications
CD>: >and introductions.  The Decency  Act will also clearly protect
CD>: >citizens from electronic stalking and  protect the sanctuary of
CD>: >the home from uninvited indecencies.... 

CD>: >        The Senetor went on to introduce an article from the
CD>: >Washington  Post of 8.2.94 entitled "Molesting Children by
CD>: >Computer" by Sandy  Rovner into the record.

CD>: >My comments: if there is any phrase more scary than "the standards
CD>: >of  decency" when uttered by a politician, I'm hard-pressed to
CD>: >think of it. 

CD>: >        the Senator wants to protect "children and families" Our
CD>: >law does  protect children where appropriate.  I don't understand
CD>: >families unless  it is a redundancy.  To me it shows the Senator
CD>: >wants to protect women  from the indecencies on the net as to his
CD>: >stereotypical world women are  identified with the family and
CD>: >children and need the same protection as  children.  The senator
CD>: >should leave the middle ages and realize that all  adults are
CD>: >capable of determining what they want to see for themselves. 

CD>: >        Query:  sould there be an information superhighway without
CD>: >the  indecent part.  it seems to me that the sharing of this
CD>: >material on the  net has led to its growth and popularity and
CD>: >would not exist to the  extent it does without it.

CD>: >        This is dangerous stuff folks.  I will get the text of the
CD>: >act as  soon as possible and reprint it here.  Under current law,
CD>: >obscenity and  indecency are determined by a jury applying
CD>: >community standards.  Thus,  suit can be brought anywhere the
CD>: >material in question ends up.  Thus, an  officer on a computer in
CD>: >more conservative areas of the country can  access material from
CD>: >elsewhere and bring suit in the conservative area   i.e
CD>: >forum-shopping.  Even more dangerous is the apparent political
CD>: >price  to be paid by not supporting any crime bill or family 
values bill
CD>: >. 

CD>: >        From the looks of this report, the bill was referred to
CD>: >committee  where it will be voted on and either returned to the
CD>: >Senate for a full  vote or it will die in committee to be
CD>: >reintroduced another day.  Contact  your local elected officials
CD>: >if you are at concerned by Big Brother.  The  paragraph about
CD>: >strengthening the protections which exist against unauthorized
CD>: >eavesdropping on conversations, electronic or digital
CD>: >communications surely does not apply to the government!! 

CD>: -- 
CD>: Sarah Webb
CD>: Richmond, Virginia USA
CD>: swebb@freenet.vcu.edu
CD> 

Paul E.Knight
OR
Simone A. Rosa-Knight
Atlanta, GA. 30340
Internet: Paul.Knight@ptonline.com
Simone.Rosa-Knight@ptonline.com
404-491-7293
---
* CMPQwk #1.4* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY


From n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:36:54 EST 1995
Article: 58279 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: FEENEY <n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Re: morning glory foliage 
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On this list we have had various discussions about confusions with common 
names.  Morning glories fall into this category.  I grow Ipomoeas as 
annuals, from seed, not to be confused with bindweed, a similar looking 
vine, sharing the same common name of morning glory but a nasty invasive 
brut as perennial as the seasons.  So, taxonomists out there, please 
explain how the genus Convolvulus fits into the name game here.  And what 
about Quamoclit (star glory) and Calonyction (moonflower).  Are these now 
classified as Ipomoeas?  
I have understood that the Ipomoeas will not flower well if treated to a 
rich diet of fertilizer, which tends to put on more leaf growth and fewer 
flowers.
Thanks for the info,
Cheers, Stephanie Feeney
n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu
zone 7


From seremjia@it.uwp.edu Thu Mar 16 00:36:56 EST 1995
Article: 58280 of rec.gardens
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From: seremjia@it.uwp.edu (Peggy Seremjian)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Date: 13 Mar 1995 02:22:15 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
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Diveanddig (diveanddig@aol.com) wrote:
: Try Chinese Lantern.

My mother had those in her garden two years ago, realized after only one 
season what bullies they were, and she is _still_ yanking up new baby 
lanterns! 

I find it amusing how plants like these are described: "Vigorous grower"
on seed packets and such. They should have the word "WARNING!" in red 
letters stamped across the packet instead. :)

Peg


From grnthm@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:36:57 EST 1995
Article: 58281 of rec.gardens
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From: grnthm@aol.com (GrnThm)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Plants to attract hummingbirds?
Date: 10 Mar 1995 21:32:26 -0500
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Salvias.  Trumpet vines.  Like red flowers.


From jpiflyfish@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:36:58 EST 1995
Article: 58282 of rec.gardens
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From: jpiflyfish@aol.com (JPIFLYFISH)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: cats and ponds
Date: 10 Mar 1995 21:38:13 -0500
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Read about your pond and cat situation.  I have a small garden pond and
waterfall in my backyard and have been "visited" by cats, coons, and
skunks.  I keep goldfish in the pond (wanted to try Koi but I knew that
was an expensive and futile proposition).  Anyway, last summer I rigged up
a motion sensor light that is directed at the pond.  It clicks on when an
intruding cat or other critter get close to the pond...It's helped slow
down the predators, but hasn't eliminated the problem.  
I thought about wiring the pond with a low-voltage fence, but it would be
an expensive and unsightly chore.  So...I'm content to share my goldfish
on occassion with the furry guys.
Regards...John P.


From billsdone@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:36:59 EST 1995
Article: 58283 of rec.gardens
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From: billsdone@aol.com (BillsDone)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Stone Walls
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:12:08 -0500
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What's the going rate for stone walls per foot at 18" and 3 foot high ???


From FCS1@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:00 EST 1995
Article: 58284 of rec.gardens
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From: FCS1@ix.netcom.com (Fred Simmank)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Cyclamen
Date: 13 Mar 1995 02:23:15 GMT
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I am currently growing quite a few Cylemen (planted them in November) 
just North of Houston, Texas with fantastic results.  Unfortunately, 
these plants are unable to survive our hot and damp Summers.  A plant 
expert told me that it is possible to store the corms in a dormant state 
during the Summer, and then replant them once cooler weather arrives 
next Fall.  I plan to lift them in late May and let them dry out and 
loose their foliage.  Once the foliage is gone, I will hang the corms in 
potato sacks in my garage for the duration of the hot weather.

Another person I talked to said that once I plant them this fall, it 
will be difficult to get the plants to bloom.  He said that these plants 
require a certain number of hours of light in order to begin blooming.  
I belive he said they need exactly 12 hours of light per day (reminds of 
X-mas Cactus).

Has anyone successfully stored/replanted their Cyclamen, and if so did 
you encounter any difficulties in getting them to bloom?  Did you have a 
fairly high percentage of plants that came out of dormacy and bloomed?  
What procedures did you use to store them?  Their constant blooming 
makes these plants fantastic for Winter landscaping in shady areas, but 
as costly as they are, it would be nice to be able to "reuse" them year 
after year.  Any info would be greatly appreciated.


From seremjia@it.uwp.edu Thu Mar 16 00:37:02 EST 1995
Article: 58285 of rec.gardens
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From: seremjia@it.uwp.edu (Peggy Seremjian)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Coffee Grounds
Date: 13 Mar 1995 02:26:27 GMT
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: > Are coffee grounds good for anything in the garden?

I have an indoor wormbox and my worms just _love_ coffeegrounds. Second 
only to canteloupe rinds.

Peg.

PS and the resultant worm castings are great in the garden. The grounds 
are much better having gone thru the worm first..


From markm@nwlink.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:03 EST 1995
Article: 58286 of rec.gardens
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From: mark <markm@nwlink.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bunch of ??? about starting seeds
Date: 11 Mar 1995 02:36:21 GMT
Organization: Northwest Link
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References: <1995Mar6.162439@hiramb> <1995Mar6.170449.39769@cobra.uni.edu> <browder-0703951456110001@noel.bio.ucalgary.ca>
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> > In article <1995Mar6.162439@hiramb>, whitedfp@hiram.edu (Frances Whited,
> 216/569-5291) writes:
> > > I'm about to attempt my first foray into starting seeds indoors and have
> > > a couple of questions.
> > > 
> > > 1. I don't have lots of $$$ to invest in heating mats, so what are some
> > > suggestions for other ways to keep the flats warm until the seeds germinate.
> > > For example, I have an electric oil-filled radiator that I could
> position near
> > > the flats. (It gives off pretty low, even heat.)
> > > 
Another idea (if you don't have too many seedlings requiring heat) is to
use a heating pad underneath the seed tray.  If the heating pad is small
like mine, you can also put a cookie sheet or some other heat-conductive 
tray on top of the heating pad and then put the seed tray on top of that.
I have successfully started both tomatoes and hot peppers this way for 
a couple years (zone 8).  All other seeds I have been able to successfully
start indoors (in-garage) without a heat source.

Good luck!
~laura





From growit@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:04 EST 1995
Article: 58287 of rec.gardens
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From: growit@aol.com (GROWIT)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Advice for starting a garden club?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:18:34 -0500
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>I'm thinking about starting a garden group at my church - using gardening
>as a common bond to help re-establish a sense of community in a church
that
>has had a rough past couple of years, and because I'd just like to have a
>garden club.  I haven't thought through this very far, but it's occurred
>to me that we could combine our excess production and help supply some
>of the local "soup kitchens".  I've never been a part of a gardening
>group, though, so I'd like advice if anyone has some, on how to start it,
>set it up, etc.  How should we structure meetings and such;  what are
>some good programs, how long should they be;  In other words, where do
>I start?  Any and all help appreciated.

Harry; Just start it! I'm a member of a rather large club (160 members),
we have monthly meetings, major plant sale in spring using purchased
plants but a lot donated by members and grown in a greenhouse that gives
us space. In late summer, we have a show that is judged, usually get 1,500
entries; it's very exciting to win a best of class plaque or a blue
ribbon. Also an annual picnic and dinner. If you want to affiliate with a
national, you could contact the Gardeners of America Inc. in Iowa or find
the local Federated State Garden Club and see how to hook into their
national. Regarding giving away excess food, my professional organization,
the Garden Writers Association of America, is sponsoring a program called
Plant a Row for the Hungry which encourages gardeners to contact their
local food pantry and see how to contribute their excess food. Give it a
try! bill in chicago.


From growit@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:05 EST 1995
Article: 58288 of rec.gardens
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From: growit@aol.com (GROWIT)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Problem growing freesias
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:19:14 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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>I grow freesias each winter in a greenhouse where the temperature range
is 
>45-55.There is adequate light, water and fertilizer and the plants bloom 
>vigorously. The only problem is that the bloom stalks are gnarled and
twist in 
>all directions. I have tried insecticides with no visible improvement.
Any 
>suggestions as to what I might to to get straight stems?
 
Douglass; your message does not indicate why you suspect the problem is
insects. it certainly sounds like the contortions of the stems is
associated with a reaction to the insecticide. does the insecticide list
freesias as one of crops it is formulated for? are you using it exactly as
the label directs? most insects are going to be dormant at those temps
anyway. i'd start with that premise.


From marcusschn@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:06 EST 1995
Article: 58289 of rec.gardens
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From: marcusschn@aol.com (MarcusSchn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Backyard Wildlife
Date: 10 Mar 1995 21:44:50 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Just thought some of you might be interested...

The Backyard Wildlife Network is a membership organization formed to share
the latest discoveries, ideas and techniques in backyard wildlife and
habitat, and to encourage the development of backyard habitat on every
possible site.

Membership benefits include monthly 16-page newsletter, product discounts,
query-solution service, exclusive invitations to seminars and workshops.

$25 per year ($23 if you're over 59 or under 21)

Backyard Wildlife Network
1328 Chestnut St. #393
Emmaus, PA 18049
Voice: (610) 481-9452
Fax: (610) 481-9453
E-mail: MarcusSchn@aol.com

Marcus Schneck, Executive Director


From sals@rain.org Thu Mar 16 00:37:08 EST 1995
Article: 58290 of rec.gardens
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From: sals@rain.org ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW site
Date: 13 Mar 1995 02:20:32 GMT
Organization: RAIN Public Access Internet (805) 967-RAIN
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I have a lot of nice garden links on my home page check it out.
http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html
Stephen Cotroneo (stephenc33@ids.net) wrote:
:                         Does anyone know of WWW sites on gardening.

--

Sal Schettino,Organic Farmer,don't panic eat organic,sals@rain.org
or check out my homepage:            http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html    .



From fmbutt@engage.sps.mot.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:09 EST 1995
Article: 58291 of rec.gardens
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From: fmbutt@engage.sps.mot.com (Farooq Butt)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:33:26 -0600
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My vote: Lonicera Japonica Halliana (Hall's Japanese Honeysuckle).

fmb
-- 
Standard High-Tech Disclaimer: NOTHING  in the above article has the slightest 
relationship to reality. If any reality correspondences are found, please 
notify me IMMEDIATELY. Any threats, abuse or stupidity of any kind is purely 
UNintentional. These are MY Opinions NOT my employer's.


From topsoil@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:10 EST 1995
Article: 58292 of rec.gardens
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From: topsoil@aol.com (Topsoil)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Red earthworms
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:28:09 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Hi...

Redworms thrive in situations where there is copious organic matter on
which they can feed.  Unfortunately, even in very good garden soil, there
is seldom enough O.M. to keep them going well.  However, redworms are VERY
well suited to composting.  I put them into my compost piles when the
piles have cooled down, and they do a marvelous job of finishing the work!

Good luck,
E Johnson


From tme9u@galen.med.Virginia.EDU Thu Mar 16 00:37:11 EST 1995
Article: 58293 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: tme9u@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (teresa m. esch)
Subject: Re: Bugs, bugs, bugs!
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For help in identifying insect pests, the latest Gardens Alive!
catalog has a very nice section in the back - several pages
with colored pictures of many insects.  I guess they also
tell you how to get rid of them (although I doubt free methods
such as hand picking are suggested.  But then I haven't looked,
so maybe I shouldn't be so quick to judge).  Oh by the way, if
you don't know, it's all organic stuff.

teresa
--
 


From piddipat@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:13 EST 1995
Article: 58294 of rec.gardens
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From: piddipat@aol.com (Piddipat)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Community Gardens
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:33:45 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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good advice, elizabeth also-not-a-lawyer!

it just so happens that this vacant lot i have my eye on is owned by a
stupid, down-and-out drug dealer, so i think i can gleefully take it over
and do some gardening while waiting for the city (chicago) to gain title
to it. i was told by the demolition dept. that after the city gains title
i can buy it supercheap via their "adjacent neighbor" program. that's
where the landowner next to a vacant lot gets first dibs on that lot.
supposedly i might be able to get for for around $300 or so. i wonder if
other cities have such programs? they sure don't advertise these great
deals freely, do they? :D

--pat murray


From topsoil@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:15 EST 1995
Article: 58295 of rec.gardens
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From: topsoil@aol.com (Topsoil)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Help with VERMI-composting
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:36:23 -0500
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I have removed the worms from the compost by using bright light.  Worms
avoid the light.  On a warm day (or any day if you have a bright indoor
light), I make a pile of the finished compost and worms, and let the light
drive the worms down into the compost.  After a few minutes, I scrape off
a layer of the compost from the pile and set it aside.  This exposes the
worms to light again, and they burrow inwards again to avoid.  Repeating
this process should leave you with a pile of compost and a smaller pile
with a great number of worms in it.  The process isn't perfect -- I always
have a few worms, or as you have noticed, egg cases, in the compost, but I
don't mind.  I just leave them, and with very little left for them to eat,
they become compost quickly, too.

E Johnson


From piddipat@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:16 EST 1995
Article: 58296 of rec.gardens
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From: piddipat@aol.com (Piddipat)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Compost piles
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:36:37 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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i have a real dinky back yard, so i bought one of those plastic turning
compost bins. i really like it. it certainly is a conversation piece--you
wouldn't believe how many of my neighbors ask me what the heck it is. i
also set aside a tiny bit of my yard for piling compost ingredients for
future use, e.g. neighbors' grass clippings, woodchips donated by the
neighborhood furniture-makers ...

--pat murray


From joseph2644@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:17 EST 1995
Article: 58297 of rec.gardens
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From: joseph2644@aol.com (Joseph2644)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Small Fruit Trees??
Date: 12 Mar 1995 21:38:02 -0500
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   Janet as far as apples go,regular tree can get 20 , 25' tall,dwarf
about 12  to 18' tall,extra dwarf about 10',dwarfs are also available for
peaches,pears etc... if you are really limited for space consider a few
hardy kiwi vines or grapes,there are also many berrys that are great
looking bushes year round with the added benefit of fruit,ie.highbush
blueberrys
                                                          Joe

P.s I,m trying collanade apple trees from Stark for the first time this
year,they get about 8' tall but no branchs,about 2' around,the flowers and
then fruit grow on spurs right on the trunk.I will be recieving them for
planting some time this month and will post any experience with them good
or bad as time goes by.


From bean@holly.ColoState.EDU Thu Mar 16 00:37:18 EST 1995
Article: 58298 of rec.gardens
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From: bean@holly.ColoState.EDU (Heather Bean)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: How long to sprout amaryllis seeds?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:40:03 -0700
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Does anyone have any experience regarding how long amaryllis seeds take to 
sprout?  I have some rather old seeds given to me by my grandmother -- I'm
sure not many will sprout, but I have so many I'm hoping for at least one.  
I just want to know how long I should wait before I give up and try the next
batch.  I've been putting them on moist seed starting mix, covering them very
lightly, putting the container in a bag, and setting them on the seed starting 
heat mat -- the usual regimen that I generally have very good luck with, 
although I've never tried amaryllis before.  If anyone has any other tips 
specific to starting amaryllis, I'd love to hear those too!

Thank You!

Heather Bean






From tme9u@galen.med.Virginia.EDU Thu Mar 16 00:37:20 EST 1995
Article: 58299 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: tme9u@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (teresa m. esch)
Subject: Re: Novice looking for weird plants
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raiar@vulcan.inlink.com  writes:
> 
> If you really want unusual plants, take some flower seeds to your 
dentinst and have him X-ray the packages.  In some cases, you will 
come out with some real beauts.
> 
> Gary
> 

Is this really true?  That would be so cool!  How about uv
irradiation?  

teresa
--
 


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:21 EST 1995
Article: 58300 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christine Owens postings
Date: 13 Mar 1995 02:55:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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In <3jvhtv$2le@nntp.interaccess.com> June Meyer <june4@interaccess.com> writes: 

>
>In article <grumbo.347.012C7C64@niagara.com> Ian, grumbo@niagara.com
>writes:
>>I am impressed Christine.. U had an answer for EVERYONE ;^}
>
>
>I learned more from Christine's multi postings than I did in a semester
>of study. Thanks Christine.
>

Flattery will get you anywhere.  :)  I'm glad you found something
interesting in my ramblings.  BTW, I really do prefer to be
called "Chris"


From heverlyj@ccnet.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:22 EST 1995
Article: 58301 of rec.gardens
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From: heverlyj@ccnet.com (Jerry Heverly)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Crab Grass -- how to grow??
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:01:33 -0800
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NadiaI (nadiai@aol.com) wrote:
: I would like to grow crab grass for a high traffic/dog area.  Any ideas
: how
: I could go about this?
	You gotta help us here.  There are several plants that people 
call crabgrass.  The 'true' plant is *Digitaria*, an annual that comes 
back each spring.  It grows in a kind of circle from a central stolon.  
The base of each stem is purplish.
	Then there's bermuda grass, *Cynodon*, a wiry perennial grass 
that creeps along the ground.
	Or *Poa annua*, annual bluegrass, a little plant with a 
distinctive seedhead.
	And there are probably others.  Can you ID it from these?
Jerry Heverly, Instr. of hort, Diablo Valley College, Pleasant Hill, CA
-- 


Jerry Heverly, Oakland, CA


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:24 EST 1995
Article: 58302 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Moles, I think...
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:03:52 GMT
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Well, my grandfather was a big fan of a roller, but I prefer
poison.  (You can't use the "water cure" on moles because
they fill in their tunnels behind themselves.)  My neighbor
swears by one of those little electronic warning systems;
but it only works as long as he leaves it turned on.

If you do choose to go the poison route, please buy
one of the brands that is designed to be buried.
(It has been a few years, but the last time I had to do
this, I was able to buy something that looked like a
tree stake that you pounded into the ground.)  Please
do not leave poison laying around where a pet, or --
God-forbid! -- a child could find it.

Chris Owens


>I think I have a problem with moles. My yard looks like it has a bad case of acne. 
>There are mounds of dirt all over the place. There are however no clear signs of 
>holes. It just looks like the dirt was piled up. The ground is very soft and hollow 
>under the mounds. What is the best and easiest way to get id of my new friends. 
>HELP!
>Thanks,
>Ed 


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:25 EST 1995
Article: 58303 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Aug/Sept PERENNIALS
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:04:30 GMT
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Try some of the hybrid oriental lillies -- I used to grow them
in Illinois, so they should do fine.  They come in a variety
of heights, and the most brilliant shades of red / pink / white.

Chris Owens


>I am looking for some perennials that would do well in one half day
>afternoon sun, would be about three feet tall and red or bright pink in
>color that would do well in Illinois in clay soil and bloom for a good
>part of Aug. and Sept.  I have thought of Firefly Phlox or perhaps some
>Cleome which is not a perennial but booms at this time.  My garden really
>looks too green in Aug. and Sept. and I need to liven up the color.
>Any suggestions?


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:26 EST 1995
Article: 58304 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Trees from the seeds??
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:05:02 GMT
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You may not be too thrilled with the results; because most
modern fruit is grown on grafted stock -- so, the really
wonderful peach you just ate, for example, will have a pit
that has a seed for a tree that is not very like its parent.
Some fruits, citrus, for example, also have a very high
percentage of sterile seeds.  But, if you are still interested:

You can't do this with fruit you buy at the grocery store.
It was picked green, and the seed didn't have time to
develop.  The best way to get a good seed is to go to
an orchard, and collect over-ripe fruit.

When you get the fruit home, plant the entire piece
of fruit in a large pot filled with a mix of 1/4 peat
moss, 1/4 vermiculite, 1/4 potting soil, and 1/4
composted manure.  Put the pot outside.
Keep it watered, and mulch it well in winter.
When the tree gets to be 12 - 18 inches,
transplant to a prepared site in your yard.
Expect germination to take several months,
and to have a high failure rate.

Good luck.

Chris Owens


>I have been trying, unsuccessfully to start various fruit trees from the
>seeds of their fruit.  This may seem really ignorant but I had never seen
>or read anything on the subject of tree starting.
>
>Can anyone help.  Is it even possible?  


>Thanks in advance
>
>Bill


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:27 EST 1995
Article: 58305 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Is rot a problem with daylilies ?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:05:34 GMT
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Any bare-root plant is susceptible to rot.  I would say you handled
it just fine; although I would have added some sulphur for insurance.
Throw away the root pieces, they won't grow new daylilies -- you
need a piece of crown for that.  (BTW, a few years down the road,
when you are dividing your daylillies, remember to cut vertically
through the crown portion so that every new plant has both
roots and crown.)

Good luck.

Chris Owens


>
>I just received some nice daylilies. One of them had a teeny little
>mushy area near the crown. I cut away a small amount of roots and 
>the rest of the plant seems OK. Are bare-root daylilies 
>susceptible to rot, should I do anything else or was even the little
>I did strictly unecessary ?  BTW: a couple of the daylilies had 
>a few roots break off. Should I plant the 1 inch thingies anyway 
>hoping for plants in a year or so ? 
>
>fmb


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:28 EST 1995
Article: 58306 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Red earthworms
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:06:08 GMT
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Well, judging by my garden, where you can't dig without hitting
an earthworm or twenty, they not only survive -- they are sex-
mad!  :)  The 500 that I got from Gardens Alive! seem to have
become several million in short order.

You might up the survival rate by putting them on freshly-
turned earth, so they can dig down faster.  Also, do this
after the birds have had their sunrise breakfast, or you
are just performing an expensive form of bird-feeding.

Good luck.

Chris Owens


>I just ordered 500 red earthworms from Garden Alive.  I am assuming that
>the worms will really survive to improve my garden.  Do they really
>survive in the garden once released?  Any suggestions for better survival?
>
>Diane


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:30 EST 1995
Article: 58307 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: are wildflowers do-able in nice neighborhood?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:06:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Buy your seed from a reputable dealer in wild-flower
seeds.  Select your mixture carefully for both appropriateness
to your area, and final desired height.  (I am particularly partial
to field poppies, myself:  They have a long blooming season,
and rarely get taller than 2 feet.)  Plow the field under to give 
the seeds the best chance of competing with the grass.

BTW, if I had a lot that was zoned for keeping them, and
big enough, NOTHING would stop me from having a
horse!

Good luck.

Chris Owens


>   I live in a nice neighborhood where everyone has at least an acre per lot.  most of my
>immediate neighbors have their house on the front of the lot and forest on the back while
>my lot was divided into a horse pasture (2/3 acre) and the house lot (2/3 acre) which is
>wooded.  since i don't think i want a pet horse or two at this time, i am considering
>seeding the pasture with wildflowers.  i think it would be prettier and i would have to mow
>the bermuda all season long.
>
>    my question is, is it possible to convert an area like this to look pretty enough for a
>nice neighborhood?  my pasture is the corner lot and alot of people walk by everyday
>and i'd hate to have it look like an overgrown weed field?  i've read some articles, and
>they make it sound like initially it would be alot of work to seed, but once done, it would
>be beautiful and only need bi-annual cutting.  any suggestions?


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:30 EST 1995
Article: 58308 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Natural repellants for cats
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:07:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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He should mind the cats, strays are rarely vaccinated for rabies.

I have always had success with open bottles of white vinegar.
Cats hate the smell.  He might also want to consider live-
trapping them for turning over the ASPCA.

Chris Owens


>I have a friend with a stray cat problem in his neighborhood. 
>(There are dozens.) He doesn't mind the cats but their urine seems
>to kill some of his plants.  Are there any natural ways to discourage
>the cats from entering his garden?
>
>thanks
>jeanne


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:32 EST 1995
Article: 58309 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Starting Indoors/Hel
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:07:47 GMT
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If they are surface-sown seeds that need light to germinate,
you need to put them under the lights right away.  If they
are buried seeds, it doesn't matter either way.

Chris Owens


>I am going to attempt to start my plants indoors this year under
>fluorescent lights.  I am not sure if I put the plants under the lights
>to germinate them or wait until the seedlings break the surface?  What
>is the way to go?  Thanks for the help.


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:33 EST 1995
Article: 58310 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gophers
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:08:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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I have always had success with flooding them out, but this
only works early in the game.  Try putting poison bait deep
-- as in deep enough that a pet or child is not going to find
it -- into their holes.

Chris Owens


>seems like i've got gophers - anyone got any ideas 'bout how i can get rid of 
>them?  although i'm normally a pacifist, after the torture these critters have
>put me through i'm all for killing them any way i can - slowly and painfully
>if possible :-) - i'm really ready to get out of the salad bar bussiness!
>
>ron


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:35 EST 1995
Article: 58311 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Horse Manure
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:08:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Smell is the best clue -- if it still smells like horse, it isn't
composted enough; if it smells like freshly-turned earth,
it is.  However, properly composted manure will also be 
dark and crumbly, as opposed to clods filled with straw.

Chris Owens


>I am planning to get several pickup truck loads of horse manure
>this weekend and I haven't seen it yet.  Is there any way to tell
>if it's composted enough to use as mulch on berry bushes and also
>to till into my garden area other than smell?  I know that if it 
>smells "fresh", it's not broken down enough, but I'm not sure of 
>any other sure fire ways to know that it is okay.  Suggestions?
>
>-- 
>Nita Richard 


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:37 EST 1995
Article: 58312 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pruning Dwarf Conifers
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:09:23 GMT
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The picea has a single burst of growth each year, the others
are more even in their growing -- basically all summer long.
You can prune any of them at any time, just be aware that
it will destroy a year of growing on the picea branches you
cut.

I have found that cutting a tree back to six to eight inches
smaller than I want it to be works best.  You can use a 
hedge clippers if you want a maincured look, or just
prune off individual branches if you want a more natural
look on the cryptomeria, tsuga, and chamaecyparis.  Cut
individual branches on the picea.

Chris Owens


>I need some advice on when and how to prune dwarf conifers in the picea, 
>cryptomeria, tsuga and chamaecyparis families.
>
>Here's my situation:  I have quite a few dwarf conifers in my garden that
>are starting to outgrow their garden space.  I would like to be able to 
>prune them so that they don't grow very much bigger.  But I'm afraid to 
>disfigure them by pruning them incorrectly.  
>
>For example, I have several blue spruce cultivars, 'Montgomery' and
>others, all similar.  And a number of other cultivars of dwarf spruces and
>dwarf firs.  Our winter here in the San Francisco Bay Area hsa been very
>wet and mild and these spruces are all budded and nearly ready to grow. 
>Can I cut back _now_ to a well-placed bud?  Can I cut back into last
>year's wood now, and expect to get growth from a node? 
>
>The dwarf cryptomeria is already sprouting from all its buds.  Same with 
>the dwarf cedrus.  Too late to prune for this year?  
>
>I've sheared the many dwarf chamaecyparis and the dwarf hemlocks in spite 
>of the fact that they had already started to put on spring growth.  But I 
>don't want to shear the spruces...
>
>Any advice will be appreciated...
>
>Jan Mountjoy



From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:38 EST 1995
Article: 58313 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Questions about espalier fruit trees
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:10:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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I have always used young trees 5-6 feet, with
several slender branches for espaliering.  The
branches should still be very flexible.

I would imagine that some rootstock is better than
others, but I have always just used what came to
hand, and have never had a failure.

ess pah leer  (it means fence in French).

Good luck.  You have embarked on a project that
will give you many years of challenge and enjoyment,
not to mention the best yields you have ever seen!

Chris Owens


>: I am hoping to plant two pear trees next to a fence and
>: train them in espalier form, but I am running into some 
>: problems and have some questions.
>:
>: The nurserys I have contacted about trees, have suggested
>: that I start with a young branchless whip.  I have called
>: every nursery in Portland but no one sells such young trees.  
>: does any know where I can find branchless whips? (as in trees)
>:
>: My second question is: Are there some varities better than 
>: others for training in this form?  What root stock should I
>: look for?
>: 
>: My third question is: Exactly how do you pronounce "ESPALIER"?
>: I am embarrassing myself every where I call.


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:40 EST 1995
Article: 58314 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: ?'s about growing tomatoes in pots
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:10:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k0d3g$31o@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
References: <D579r8.J4I@freenet.carleton.ca> <3k0b6a$j8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-05.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

5 gallon pots.  Stakes make harvesting easier, cages are
easier to use; both work well to support the plant.  Don't
forget to give your tomatoes plenty of water.

Chris Owens


>Hi all:
>
>I will be growing several varieties of determinate (4 to 4 1/2' high) tomatoes 
>in pots for the first time this season.  I was wondering:
>
>How large a pot should I use for a plant of this size?
>
>Should I stake them or use cages?
>
>TIA for any help
>
>Peter Michel  


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:41 EST 1995
Article: 58315 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Tree tomatoes
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:11:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k0d4f$31r@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
References: <D579r8.J4I@freenet.carleton.ca> <3k0b6a$j8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-05.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
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Sounds like hype to me.  Never heard of a tree that produced
tomatoes, only vines.  (Maybe they have a variety that can
be trained to a tree-like habit?)

Chris Owens

>I saw an advertisment for tree tomatoes.  The pictures looked like cut
>tomatoes.  The hype said the were tomatoes and tasted great.  The price
>was reasonable.  Somehow, I get the feeling that they are trying to sucker
>me.
>
>What can anyone tell me about tree tomatoes?
>
>William Buchman 


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:42 EST 1995
Article: 58316 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardens Alive
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:11:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k0d5i$31v@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
References: <D579r8.J4I@freenet.carleton.ca> <3k0b6a$j8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-05.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
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Gardens Alive!
5100 Schenley Place
Lawrenceburg IN  47025


>Hi everyone,
>I've seen lots of folks mention Gardens Alive as a good source for pest
>control items.  Would someone please post the address and phone # ?
>
>Thanks,
>Keisha


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:43 EST 1995
Article: 58317 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: When to put down sod?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:12:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k0d6t$33e@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
References: <D579r8.J4I@freenet.carleton.ca> <3k0b6a$j8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-05.ix.netcom.com
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Now is better.  The roots start growing before the stems do.
BTW, keep everyone off the new sod for a few weeks to give
it time to establish.

Chris Owens


>I have a 12' x 20' mud patch in my yard that I want to sod.  Can I put down 
>the sod now, or do I need to wait for the grass to start growing again.  I'm 
>in zone 7 (Kansas City).
>
>Thanks,
>Kevin


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:44 EST 1995
Article: 58318 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Apples!
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:13:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 26
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k0d85$33k@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
References: <D579r8.J4I@freenet.carleton.ca> <3k0b6a$j8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-05.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
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Your two biggest risks are apple maggots and birds.  Use
horticultural oil and trap lures to control the maggots, netting
to keep the birds at bay.  You might also want to watch the
tree carefully for signs of stress.  It really isn't well-established
enough to be producing fruit; plus, the weight of the fruit may
damage the young branches.  Better to sacrifice this year's
crop than lose the tree.

Chris Owens

>
>Hi all! Thanks for all the responses on my lawn/tulip questions. My tulips are 
>coming up nicely and the lawn looks better,
>One more question.. I've just noticed that our (planted dormant in december) 5 
>in 1 apple tree actually has apples! They are about the size of a large 
>marble-one branch has yellowish fruit, the other red. My question is this-now 
>that the fruit is starting to appear-how can I protect it? (from insects, 
>mostly). What insects destroy apples? We almost lost an orange tree last 
>summer from the grasshoppers, and I'd like to see just how big these little 
>apples will become (I didn't expect any fruit out of these trees this year, so 
>if they turn out small, ah well..).
>I don't notice any insect damage so far, but I want to be prepared. 
>We're in Zone 9, I believe - Southern California. 
>Can I cover them with mesh? Horribly disgusting carcinogenic pesticides? :)
>
>Heather


From hanly@stan.brandonu.ca Thu Mar 16 00:37:46 EST 1995
Article: 58319 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.brandonu.ca!stan.brandonu.ca!hanly
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mold invasion
Message-ID: <1995Mar12.205943.1@stan.brandonu.ca>
From: hanly@stan.brandonu.ca
Date: 12 Mar 95 20:59:43 CST
References: <1995Mar9.183732.1418@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil>
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
Nntp-Posting-Host: buster.brandonu.ca
Lines: 18
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <1995Mar9.183732.1418@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil>, welshg@rl.af.mil
 (Glenn T. Welsh) writes:
> I beleive all your 'mold' problems are a thing called 'dappening off' !  Try 
> this; be sure your planting medium has super drainage (add lots of 
> vermiculite). The ready to use plant/seed starter mediums are not
 recommended. 
      I have a number of peat pots with considerable mold of different hues
containing tomato seedlings, peppers, and egg plants, in which the seedlings
are thriving and not damping off at all. It seems possible to have molds
without damping off. The mold seems to form on the jiffy pots made of peat but
not on plastic. I have found that commercial starting mixes work fine for my
purposes. What doesn't work well, for starting seeds, potting soil mix.
Commercial mixtures without soil seem to be working fine for me. It is when I
used non-sterilized soil that I had problems with damping off. Lack of humidity
or drying of the surface of the peat pot seems to kill the molds.
  Cheers, Ken Hanly between Zone 2 and 3. Don't put plants too close to the
windows here unless there are no drafts. You'll freeze them. I know!



From cower@Csli.Stanford.EDU Thu Mar 16 00:37:48 EST 1995
Article: 58320 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: cower@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Richard Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Mulching mulberry leaves - any problems?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:16:12 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
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I was told not to mulch mulberry leaves in my garden. Anyone know why?
The person who told me not to do it suggested there was some bad substance
in them.

thanks...rich


From gary.mcneill@acornbbs.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:50 EST 1995
Article: 58321 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!acornbbs!gary.mcneill
From: gary.mcneill@acornbbs.com
Subject: Plant labels/ markers
Message-ID: <9503122152.0UPXP00@acornbbs.com>
Organization: Acorn BBS
X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.25/PRIMP 1.56p
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 21:52:03 -0500
Lines: 14
Status: O
X-Status: 


FYI:
	An alternative to spending much money for plant labels:  keep an eye out 
for used / broken mini - blinds!  These cheap blinds are often thrown out, 
but looked at a different way, they are a large supply of any size marker 
for the spring seedlings.  (Every year I say "This year I will label 
*every* tomato and pepper plant!)


  GARY                                                          


-> TIMM (1.0 Final 1) The Ideal Macintosh Mail reader
 


From tdalbec@kaiwan.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:51 EST 1995
Article: 58322 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!NewsWatcher!user
From: tdalbec@kaiwan.com (td)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: What to grow
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:28:12 GMT
Organization: kaiwan
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <tdalbec-1203951930340001@192.0.2.1>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I tried to send an earlier post, but I don't know if my newsreader sent it
or not....

My wife and I have a cabin that is about 5,600 ft elevation. We are there
an average of 3+ days a week. The soil is sandy/rocky and we have a very
steep hill for a back yard.

What we are looking for are some herbs/vegtables or whatever that we can
grow. We would also like to grow erosion/fire retardant/anticritter/ground
cover plants. If these can be combined, so much the better.

Any help or suggestions would be appricatied.

tom

-- 
td


From storytel@ripco.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:52 EST 1995
Article: 58323 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!gail.ripco.com!storytel
From: storytel@ripco.com (Conrad Lawrence)
Subject: Replace lilies of the valley with what?
Message-ID: <D5CyyM.721@rci.ripco.com>
Keywords: north lillies groundcover
Sender: usenet@rci.ripco.com (Net News Admin)
Organization: Ripco Internet BBS, Chicago
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 02:59:10 GMT
Lines: 9
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I'm not a gardener so I need help? I live in Chicago and want to dig up the 
patch of lilies of the valley on the north side of the house.  
They look great for about 3 weeks then they get spots and die.  
I want a ground cover or low plant that is maintenance free.  
The area is about 12' x 6'.  






From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:53 EST 1995
Article: 58324 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!hobbes.cc.uga.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mushy Vegetables
Date: 12 Mar 1995 02:43:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jtn45$aqi@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc7-05.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Stop storing your veggies in those open-air bags.  They are
turning limp because they are dehydrating.

Chris Owens

>I believe we've talked about this before, but I need a reminder.  I
>have been very successful growing carrots and celery this winter.  
>When I harvest them, I bring them in the house, wash and dry them,
>and put them in the refrigerator in those new "vegetable" bags (plastic
>bags with little air holes).  
>
>Even though the vegetables are quite crisp coming out of the garden,
>they get rubbery in the house.  Anyone have any suggestions?
>
>
>-- 
>  Naomi Walker 


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:54 EST 1995
Article: 58325 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Carpenter Ants Killing our Oak tree
Date: 12 Mar 1995 02:44:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 26
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jtn5p$arf@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc7-05.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
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Carpenter Ants don't eat live wood, so what they are doing is
eating out the dead center of the oak.  (Oaks have this habit
of developing a dead center, which is often hollow because 
of the action of animals like carpenter ants.)  However, you
don't want the ants hanging around, because they will also
like your house just fine!  Call an arborist for an opinion on
how to handle this problem.

Chris Owens

>
>  We have a decent Oak tree in our front yard, and it was fine up until 
>about 5 years ago.  It is a fairly young tree, I think it's only about 20 
>years old or so, I think it was about 5 feet tall when we got it.  Now it's 
>about 35 to 40 feet tall.  Anyway, carpenter ants have been eating into one 
>side of the tree, about 4 feet off the ground.  Now you can see a gaping 
>hole in the tree, and there is no bark on a spot of about 5 inches in 
>diameter.  I kept spraying the tree with different insecticides, hoping to 
>kill off the ants, and let the tree heal up, but it has not worked.  I kill 
>off some ants, but then they just recover and go on.  I even tried systemic 
>insecticides, but that did not work either.  Finally, I tried using GE 
>silicone Rubber, and coated the dead portion of the tree, hoping to cut off 
>the ants from their food supply, but they just ate out around the stuff.  
>Any suggestions?  I really don't want to have to cut down the tree, but I 
>don't know if I'll have any choice if this keeps up for another couple of 
>years....


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:55 EST 1995
Article: 58326 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How do I get rid of blue rug juniper?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 02:44:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 21
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jtn6v$aru@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc7-05.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

You need a spade, a pickaxe, a heavy pruning shears, and
-- if at all possible -- some help.  Use the shears to cut off
as many of the branches as you can.  Then, take the spade
and cut the roots all the way around the former drip line.
Using the pickaxe as a lever, pry a length of root out of the 
ground from the stem end, then pull it completely out.  (This
takes a lot of strength, and is where help is a real advantage.)
Repeat until all the roots are pulled.

Watering the area a couple of hours before you start will
help, as will a good pair of work gloves.  Good luck.

Chris Owens


>I want to remove blue rug juniper from a spot in my yard?  
>
>Suggestions, please.
>
>Thanks
>Anita


From rfc@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca Thu Mar 16 00:37:57 EST 1995
Article: 58327 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!news.Direct.CA!scipio.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!unixg.ubc.ca!freenet.vancouver.bc.ca!rfc
From: rfc@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca (Randy Cosby)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 03:19:22 GMT
Organization: Vancouver Regional FreeNet
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <3k0djq$jr9@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca>
References: <gate.Vu1s2c1w165w@bbs.gatecom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott shy (shyguy@bbs.gatecom.com) wrote:
: >In article <D533tp.MC6@midway.uchicago.edu>, spcburke@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu
: > (Patrick Burke) writes:
: >>
: >>Chicago, Zone 5/6
: >>
: >>SNOW!  We have fields and fields of snow!  The warmest January
: > in
: >>decades, and here it is March and we're getting buried.  No
: > hint
: >>of spring outdoors, but my seeds are sprouting by the south-facing
: >>window.  Rather pleased about that.
: >>
: >In Baton Rouge, LA (a very warm zone 8)
: >
: >Calla lilies, Rose "Angle Face" planted bareroot in January
: > (my first rose),
: >coreopsis,  Rosemary, impatience, verbena, geraniums (potted),
: > gebera daisy,
: >wax begonias, azaleas ...
: >weeds: clover, buttercups, violets and more.

: In Ferndale,MI(near Detroit), 5/6:
: My snowdrops are up and flowering and my star of Bethlehem bulbs have
: lots of leaves. The tulips and poppies are breaking ground, and as I
: write this the temp is 42 and going to rise to 56, with three more days
: of 60+! Hurray!
: Tammy

: Gateway Online ... 38 Line Multi-user Interactive Information System
: Taylor, Michigan - (313)291-5571 2400 baud (313)291-5571 9600 baud
: Sysops: Bill Mullen - Jeff Breitner

Here in Vancouver, BC, Canada we have crocuses and daffodils in full 
bloom, along with Japanese Cherry Trees. Today (Sunday) I noticed the 
first azaleas in bloom also


From mfrost@primenet.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:58 EST 1995
Article: 58328 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip059.lax.primenet.com!mfrost
From: mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: seedlings for kids
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 10:56:32 PST
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <mfrost.312.009DAEDF@primenet.com>
References: <jgolden.18.000C9D9B@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip059.lax.primenet.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4]
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <jgolden.18.000C9D9B@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil> jgolden@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil (Joel Golden) writes:
>From: jgolden@cbmse.nrl.navy.mil (Joel Golden)
>Subject: seedlings for kids
>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:36:51

>What's a good plant for a class of kids to sprout seeds?
This brings back fond elementary school memories:  beans on moist paper 
towels inside a clear container. They sprout fast enough for a child's 
interest and don't cost much. We also had a sweet potato sprout a long vine, 
and onions sprout, pineapple tops or avocado seeds  sprout suspended in jar 
over water. These would be interesting because it shows our food is alive 
(barring irradiated stuff). If that is too mundane, we also did 
calendula-plantings in milk containers, some plants managed to bloom after a 
while. It has been over 40 years, and I still recall those lessons with 
fondness.
Regards, Martha
mfrost@primenet.com


From ledwards@crl.com Thu Mar 16 00:37:59 EST 1995
Article: 58329 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!crl6.crl.com!not-for-mail
From: ledwards@crl.com (Lynn Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: indoor fluorescent lighting
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:32:13 -0800
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access	(415) 705-6060  [Login: guest]
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <3k0ebt$oar@crl6.crl.com>
References: <D54uAy.E9x@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> <3jn480$ii9@taco.cc.ncsu.edu> <D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com> <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu>
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X-Status: 

Dawn Burgess (dawn@pangea.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: In article <kc-1103952012040001@kc.tiac.net>, kc@tiac.net (Kevin Crader) 
: says: 
:    [Argument that plain fluorescent tubes work fine for plants deleted]

: Then, In article <D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com> plantone@iquest.net (Stan) 
:  writes:
:    [Argument that special grow lights are needed deleted]

: [story about Orchard Supply Hardware, who  says that ordinary cool whites 
:  are just fine deleted...]

I've used fluorescent lights for many years to get a head start on 
springtime for my tomatoes and peppers.  I've used cool white (cheap) 
tubes as well as vita-lite and glow-lux (expensive).  I've used them side 
by side while comparing results with as much care as can be reasonably 
expected (without goverment funding, anyway).  The end result:  I can't 
document any difference between them.  The grow-lux and vita-lite bulbs 
did not do any worse than the cheap tubes, but they didn't fare any 
better either.  My advice currently is to use the cheap ones.  Why spend 
the extra money?

I'm not a commercial gardener, but I am not a novice either.  My 
vegatable garden is 1300 square feet, and this year I will be growing 55 
different varieties of peppers (spanning 9 species, 165 plants total) and 
16 kinds of tomatoes.  

I couldn't find any references in the many gardening books that I own that 
claimed that the expensive lights were required - and quite a few said they 
were unnecessary.  My books are not specific to a particular growing 
philosophy.  I like to read from all sources - from Organic Gardening to 
Ortho's publications.  It seems that the connection between full spectrum 
tubes and healthier seedlings is weak, from the info I have and my own 
experience.

In that vain I would be interested in hearing other exeriences, both pro 
and con.  Any reference to controlled studies would also be warmly 
received.

Also, please note:  I use fluorescent lighting for seedlings only.  I 
found several references saying that full spectrum tubes were necessary 
for flowering, setting fruit, and making viable seeds.  

---Lynn Edwards
   Los Altos, California, USA



From mfrost@primenet.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:00 EST 1995
Article: 58330 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip082.lax.primenet.com!mfrost
From: mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: re: lavender source
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 12:59:49 PST
Organization: Primenet
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To the person who wanted a source for commercial lavender production:
I have a copy of FEB '95 BBC Gardeners' World. Page 77 there is an offer (to 
UK customers only) for several varieties of lavender from Norfolk Farms, which 
is the last commercial size producer of lavender oil in England. You may be 
able to contact the farm with your specific request at: Norfolk Lavenders, 
Ltd, Caley Mill, Heacham, Norfolk, PE31 7 JE. I hope this helps.
Regards, Martha
mfrost@primenet.com


From mfrost@primenet.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:01 EST 1995
Article: 58331 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip082.lax.primenet.com!mfrost
From: mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What's Blooming...
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 13:09:40 PST
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Here in Los Angeles foothills the grass is green and cloaking the hillsides. 
Our scrub oaks are blooming, oxalis shows its cheery face, the yellow 
contrasting with wild erigeron's tiny purple flowers, the wild cumcumber is 
wrapping around everything, native peony forming seed heads. The peaches, 
plums, apricots, narcissus, hardenbergia, blue gum are done, but iris is going 
strong. Camellia, Potato flower, pink jasmine, lemon, lime, orange, lavender, 
rosemary, stocks, 1 early calendula, blue hibicus, a few roses (Dainty Bess, 
Cherry Vanilla), some zonal geraniums, scented geraniums (Mabel Grey), purple 
cistus, some iceplant, and the elms. Weeping bottlebrush about to explode.
Regards, Martha
mfrost@primenet.com


From ledwards@crl.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:02 EST 1995
Article: 58332 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!crl6.crl.com!not-for-mail
From: ledwards@crl.com (Lynn Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Plants from vegetable seeds??
Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:56:23 -0800
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access	(415) 705-6060  [Login: guest]
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Marc Scholl (marcscholl@delphi.com) wrote:
: This may sound like a naive question, but what are the reasons, if any,
: that you can't start plants from their the seeds of vegetables (peas from
: nts and cucumbers) bought at frut and vegetable stands rather
: than from packages of seeds?  Or can you?

You can start _SOME_ seeds and plants from store bought produce, and in 
these instances it can be the cheapest method.  

However, most plants cannot be propagated this way because they are 
hybrids.  Hybrids are a cross between two different varieties and don't 
breed true (what you get the next generation is not the same as the parent 
fruit).  Most commercially grown fruit and vegatables are hybrids. 

Second problem is that many fruits are picked unripe.  Therefore the 
fruits have not yet produced viable seeds yet and are therefore probably 
not fertile.

Third problem is that some plants that would normally sprout and grow 
spontaneously have been treated chemically to prevent just that.  
Potatoes are a good example.  It is difficult (but not impossible) to get 
grocery store bought potatoes to grow.  That is why potatoes to be 
planted instead of stored/eaten are listed as "seed" potatoes.

I've had good results from planting grocery store bought garlic, 
horseradish, shallots, and some fresh peppers (they have to be ripe 
[yellow or red]).  Dried peppers have also had limited success - but they 
have to have been dried without heat or smoke.

---Lynn Edwards
   Los Altos, California, USA



From jstier@yu1.yu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:03 EST 1995
Article: 58333 of rec.gardens
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From: Jeff Stier <jstier@yu1.yu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Compost piles
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 01:53:03 -0500
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.950313015125.53057A-100000@yu1.yu.edu>
References: <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3jtmes$ags@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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My compost pile cooled off over the winter...plenty of 
carbon material.......but now what.
You mentioned yeast- how does that help?  Because its alive?
I hear hops are good....
What else can I use?  Produce/salad clippings? 
What else is high in nitrogen and available now....
I can't  wait for grass clippings!

******************************************************************************
Jeff Stier
jstier@yu1.yu.edu
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




From nedehn@artsci.wustl.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:05 EST 1995
Article: 58334 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!newspump.wustl.edu!newsreader.wustl.edu!mulberry!nedehn
From: nedehn@artsci.wustl.edu (Natasha Elizabeth Dehn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 1994 Seeds
Date: 9 Mar 1995 23:15:09 GMT
Organization: College of Arts and Sciences -- Washington University, St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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hartman@iccgcc.cle.ab.com wrote:

: Group,

: I have several packets of seeds which say "Packaged for 1994'. Can I use
: these or should I buy new ones?

heck, '94 is fresh compared to some of the seeds I've planted this year!

: I have:

: Tomato  ---no problem.  planted seeds several years old many times.
: Squash ----also seems to work fine.
: Onion ---don't know about this one.
: Pumpkin ---should be same as squash.
: Corn---? should be ok.
: Wax Bean---no problem--done it many a time!

: Thanks,

: Paul

Seriously, you may have a slightly lower germination rate, but unless you 
stored the seeds in a sauna, they should be fine for at least the first 
year.  Viability in extended storage does vary by type--Organic Gardening 
published a chart sometime within the last few years, but my copies are in 
storage, so I can't be more specific than that...maybe someone else can?
Natasha




From alvogel@mailbox.syr.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:06 EST 1995
Article: 58335 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!hookup!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!newstand.syr.edu!netnews
From: "A.L. Vogel" <alvogel@mailbox.syr.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How long to sprout amaryllis seeds?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 11:54:10 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse NY, USA
Lines: 12
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bean@holly.ColoState.EDU (Heather Bean) wrote:
>
> 
> Does anyone have any experience regarding how long amaryllis seeds take to 
> sprout?  

If your amaryllis seeds are of the kind of plant usually grown 
indoors, Hippeastrum hybrids, the book _Park's Success With Seeds_ 
says germination takes 4 to 6 weeks. It also says to plant the seeds 
on their sides (on edge?). Good luck with your grandmother's seeds.

Gina


From LS45@UNB.CA Thu Mar 16 00:38:07 EST 1995
Article: 58336 of rec.gardens
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From: "D. Savoie" <LS45@UNB.CA>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Love lies bleeding-Amaranthus
Date: 13 MAR 95 07:47:14 AST
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
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One book I have mentions that Love lies bleeding looks good in a
container with the tassles hanging down (I thought about a grain
barrel), but none of the catalogues I have mention it being good
for containers, and so I was wondering what others had done with
theirs.  Thanks for your assistance,
D. Savoie



From seremjia@it.uwp.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:08 EST 1995
Article: 58337 of rec.gardens
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From: seremjia@it.uwp.edu (Peggy Seremjian)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Help with VERMI-composting
Date: 13 Mar 1995 04:22:54 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
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: Can it be put back it with the worms for a second try?
yup.

: Are there some things that even the worms won't eat?
mine dont like citrus or onions. They are vegetarians, too. 
I've found that carrot ends take forever to go away.

: They seem to have trouble with the boston fern "roots" and some plant leaves.
They really dont start on it till it gets semi-rotten. 

: Can the compost be used directly on my house plants?
I do it all the time.

: I've found that the shredded news paper gets matted down, is there a
: better bedding material?
I've found that to be the case with newspaper, too. They seem to be happy 
with it, however. Paper egg cartons are nice. Its the same thing in a 
different form. My _favorite_ bedding is partially finished compost, but 
that is unfortunately a seasonal delight in Wisconsin. 
You can buy commercial worm bedding, too. Looked like newspaper fuzzballs 
to me. Anyone have experience with it? Seems like a waste of money when 
the newspaper is free. (well, not free but certainly a sunk cost) I fed mine 
the IRS regulations last year and they seemed to particularly like that..


Peg


From KTyrrell@lamg.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:09 EST 1995
Article: 58338 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcomsv!uucp3.netcom.com!lamgnet!KTyrrell
From: KTyrrell@lamg.com (Kerin Tyrrell)
Reply-To: KTyrrell@lamg.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Distribution: world
Subject: Sweetheart Ivy Reversion
Date: 12 Mar 1995 15:13:03 GMT
Message-ID: <2252529629.1042885@lamg.com>
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Lines: 16
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Anybody know why sweetheart ivy would 'revert' and send of shoots  with
traditional ivy-type leaves?

Bought some sweetheart ivy last fall and combined it with ivy geraniums for
some large pots to put on the front porch. Left the pots out in the back yard
until they looked showy and pretty much ignored them lately with all the rain
we've been getting out in So. Calif. lately. Went out last week and noticed
shoots with the traditional lobed leaves. For info: I'm in zone 10 so really
no frost, filtered sun, they didn't get lots of fertilizer, and the pots are
well drained so I don't think all this rain is the problem.

Sooooo, do they just do this or can I fix it by doing/not doing something?

Thanks,

Kerin


From seremjia@it.uwp.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:11 EST 1995
Article: 58339 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.uwp.edu!it!seremjia
From: seremjia@it.uwp.edu (Peggy Seremjian)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Should I buy worms?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 04:31:16 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
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Mary Spencer (mspencer@nando.net) wrote:
: Well, should I buy worms? I've seen some in my soil, but for what they do
: it seems that more would help out. DO I naturally have as many worms as
: my organic matter can carry, or would buying more help?

The soil I had experience with was a heavy clay soil with almost no 
earthworms. I amended it with *lots* of organic matter (8-10" tilled in 
in the fall, plus organic mulch all season) and the earthworms came in 
droves. I have no idea how they know its there, but there were 50-100 
every spadeful compared to almost none where I had made no efforts toward 
soil improvement.

If Jim McNelly reads this, perhaps he'll add more, particularly on the
number of worms your soil can support. I got my wormbox after reading his
posts on vermicomposting on Prodigy a few years back. He knows his worms, 
thats for sure! :)

Peg



From Peter@leopard.diges.net Thu Mar 16 00:38:12 EST 1995
Article: 58340 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!usenet
From: Peter@leopard.diges.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Mice
Date: 13 Mar 1995 04:35:36 GMT
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rrec.gardens

Mice- seedlings being cut off at night - may not be cutworms but MICE - set out a trap or two and see 
what happens (caught 4 when I lost hald my seedlings!!!)



From Billsfan@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:13 EST 1995
Article: 58341 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: Billsfan@ix.netcom.com (Edward Gilbert)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: DAYLILIES..
Date: 13 Mar 1995 12:53:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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In <7788-16604803@mcube.com> rshiell@mcube.com writes: 

>
>
>In response to:
>IB>I don't know much about them, but would like to learn.
>
>Daylilies are amazingly adaptable perennials.  They grow from zone 10
>(Southern California) to zone 4 (parts of Maine and Minnesota), and
>flourish in nearly any soil or light conditions, except deep shade.
>They store water in fleshy, thick roots, and can withstand
>considerable drought, but also accept wet streamside environments.
>
>Specialty nurseries introduce new hybrids constantly.  Several of
>these nurseries advertise in garden magazines.
>
>Most of the best new daylily cultivars are tetraploid (doubled genes),
>and some are triploid (an extra chromosome).  A few new types are
>compact (about a foot tall), and several re-bloom.
>
>Re-blooming is desirable, as each individual flower lasts about a day
>(sic), and a crop of infloresences (flower stalks) only lasts about
>three or four weeks in most cases.  Some cultivars flower earlier than
>others, and many gardeners perfer to mix several varieties in a single
>planting (as one fades, another begins).
>
>Daylilies range from off-white to deep red, and many are two-toned,
>with the throat one color and the outer surface another, darker color.
>Personally, I love the green + pink and yellow + red combinations.
>
>One species of daylily, Hemerocallis fulva, has become an escaped weed
>in parts of the midwest.  Few other species re-seed much, and many
>hybrids appear to be sterile.
>
>Richard Shiell, ASLA    Bakersfield, CA         RShiell@mcube.com
>---
> ţ SLMR 2.1a ţ Berlandiera lyrata forever!
>
>--
>Mainframes, Minis & Micros     |     Running MajorBBS and Internet!
>5630 District Blvd.   #114     |     Desert Jewel BBS & OnLine Mall
>Bakersfield, CA      93313     |     Discounted Hardware & Software
>LandLine  ==  800-949-1959     |     BBS == 805-397-2063 14.4 n-8-1
>

NEWS SERVICE -- 8/29/88

DAYLILIES ARE DEPENDABLE PERENNIALS

    Daylilies are a welcome addition to any garden because they are 
relatively
maintenance free.  They are grown primarily for their flowers, which 
vary in
form and color depending on the cultivar.  Gardeners can choose from a 
wide
assortment of colors, including white, yellow, orange, pink, red and 
purple. 
Often each color offers a range of shades in its own category.
    Differing petal shapes also add to the interest of this plant, and 
can be
wide, slightly recurved, overlapping, crinkled, frilled or ruffled.  
Flower
shapes can vary from trumpet and cup-like to those resembling bells.  
Plant
size varies from one to four feet.
    Daylilies are dense-rooted plants that can be used as ground overs 
or bed
plants in several locations.  They are hardy perennials and require a
cold-induced period to flowere the following year.  After this cold 
period,
daylilies resume growth.  The flowers typically last for one day, but 
they are
replaced the next day for as long as six weeks once blooming begins.
    By selecting early-mid-and late-season varieties you can extend the
flowering season from May until September in many areas of Pennsylvania. 
 The
foliage is also very attractive, offering an interesting texture 
contrast
among other broadleaf materials.
    Other characteristics that make daylilies an ideal garden plant are 
their
dependability as perennials, their hardiness and their strong resistance 
to
pests.  They will survive a variety of sites that might be flooded or
droughty, they tolerate heat, full sun or light shade, and do very well 
on
little or no fertilizer.  They can be grown in most areas of 
Pennsylvania,
make excellent cut flowers, and some references suggest that the flower 
heads
are edible.      In addition to the various flowers and colors, 
daylilies can
be divided into three categories according to foliage.  The dormant 
types lose
foliage after the first frost and the plant dies to the ground each 
winter. 
These plants produce new foliage the following spring.  Semi-evergreen 
types
only lose part of their foliage after a frost and will also grown new 
leaves
in the spring.  Evergreen types retain foliage year-round.  Some
semi-evergreens and evergreens can be grown in the water parts of
Pennsylvania.  If you have any doubt about local conditions, start out 
with
the dormant types.      Daylily plantings can be established by dividing
clumps every 4 to 5 years, buying dormant fans or planting containerized
plants, generally available from specialty plant producers or garden 
centers.
     Propagation of daylilies is done mainly by dividing existing clumps 
and
is best as soon as flowering is over.  However, they seem to tolerate 
division
during their entire growing season.  Immediately before division, cut 
the
foliage back to one-half its length to make handling easier and reduce
moisture loss from the plant.
    
     There is less damage to the roots and crown of the plants if you 
dig
around the clump with a spade, and then gently lift the clump from the 
ground
intact.  Any soil should be removed by hand or washed from the roots 
with a
strong spray of water.  Once the soil has been removed, the clump can be
divided into sections called fans, which are shortened stems attached to
enlarged tuberous roots.
     Plant each fan into well-spaded soil.  Set divided fans back into 
the new
soil at the same depth as they grew originally.  If you begin with 
dormant
crowns in the spring, set them so the crown is 1 to 2 inches below the 
ground
level.  It helps to make a mound of soil in the center of the planting 
hole so
the roots of each fan are spread at a downward angle.  Never bend or 
fold the
roots in a planting hole.
    Next, gradually fill in the hole with loose soil and firm it around 
the
spreading roots.  Each plant in the bed should be well watered to 
encourage
root growth and expansion into the soil.  Yearly surface applications of
one-half cup of either 5-10-5 or 5-10-10 to each plant should keep them
healthy.      
    GENERAL CULTURAL NEEDS:
    
Light: best flowering is in full sun or light shade
Soil:  slightly acidic, well-drained loam, well supplied with humus.
Planting: may be done between April and September; space plants three to 
five
feet a part. 
Water: thoroughly after planting.  Ample water during the flowering 
period
promotes high-quality blooms.
Mulch:  generally not necessary, but will help conserve moisture and 
control
some weeds.  In very cold locations a coarse mulch will reduce the 
chance of
spring heaving when the soil thaws.

Source: Bob Nuss
 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----+
Editor: Krista Weidner
Ag Information Services -- News & Publications, Penn State


July 30, 1993
Document Number: 283011159
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----+ 
 
Keywords: DAYLILY, FLOWER, GARDEN, NEWS-RELEASE, PENN-STATE, 
	  PENN-STATE-COLLEGE-AG-SCIENCES, PENNSYLVANIA, PERENNIALS
	  
	  



From nedehn@artsci.wustl.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:14 EST 1995
Article: 58342 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!newspump.wustl.edu!newsreader.wustl.edu!mulberry!nedehn
From: nedehn@artsci.wustl.edu (Natasha Elizabeth Dehn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: tomato worms
Date: 8 Mar 1995 23:19:10 GMT
Organization: College of Arts and Sciences -- Washington University, St. Louis, Missouri, USA
Lines: 12
Distribution: world
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Jerald Brainin (jabes@lamg.com) wrote:
: I am looking for an effective non-toxic answer to tomato worms?????

Assuming you mean tomato hornworms, I've never had a problem with them 
since my chinese mint (white blooming spearmint) got established.  
Attracts beneficials like you wouldn't believe!  Including various 
carnivorous and parasitic wasps....  Beware:  like all mints, this one 
will take over the universe given the slightest opportunity!

Good luck!
Natasha Dehn
 


From jbachman@pipeline.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:15 EST 1995
Article: 58343 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail
From: jbachman@pipeline.com (John Bachman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Paw Paw tree???
Date: 13 Mar 1995 07:56:59 -0500
Organization: The Pipeline
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References: <3jverm$phj@deep.rsoft.bc.ca>
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Paw paws grew wild in West Virginia where I grew up.  I describe the fruit
as a cross between a banana and a custard cream pie.  It is softer and
sweeter than a banana. 
 
I am trying to grow them here in New Hampshire.  One of my trees will be
three years old this year.  The other two were planted last year.  I build
a teepee over them for winter as this location is very marginal for them. 
But I think it is worth the effort and look forward to paw paws in another
year or two (if I'm lucky). 
-- 
John Bachman 


From jmh@shore.net Thu Mar 16 00:38:16 EST 1995
Article: 58344 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news3.near.net!noc.near.net!shore.shore.net!shore.shore.net!not-for-mail
From: jmh@shore.net (Joann M. Hnat)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Heat & Light for Seeds
Date: 13 Mar 1995 08:19:37 -0500
Organization: North Shore Access/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net)
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TIGIBSON (tigibson@aol.com) wrote:
: do seedlings have to have artificial light? i'd like to get by with a
: southern exposure. input please.

No artificial light needed -- I have all sorts of seedlings growing in my 
south-facing windows.

  .. Joann


From sazerb@rmii.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:17 EST 1995
Article: 58345 of rec.gardens
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From: Steve Zerbe <sazerb@rmii.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Guinea Pig poo as fertilizer?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 05:31:38 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet Inc.
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   Someone earlier was discussing rabbit manure as compost.  My 
 situation is that we have guinea pigs (5) that I would like to
 move outdoors on warm days in my yard.  I have a 4x4 box with no
 bottom and a piece of plywood that partially covers the top.  So
 they are free to run around the box and eat grass during the day.
 My question is this:  Is their manure going to be okay for the
 grass in my yard?  They are being fed a pellet mixture of soybean
 meal, alfalfa meal and various other incredients mixed with crushed
 corn.  I also give them a _little_ lettuce from time to time.
    I also intend to move the box a few inches every day so it won't
 make permanent dents in what little lawn I have!  

      Julie

 PS.  Our poodle thinks they are his "babies" and loves to sit and
      watch them run around.  If they squeal he comes running to 
      see what the trouble is.




From cddunn@monk.austin.cc.tx.us Thu Mar 16 00:38:18 EST 1995
Article: 58346 of rec.gardens
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From: cddunn@monk.austin.cc.tx.us (charles dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Plants to attract hummingbirds?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 23:32:46 -0600
Organization: Austin Community College
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Lonicera sempervivens (Red Honeysuckle)
GrnThm (grnthm@aol.com) wrote:
: Salvias.  Trumpet vines.  Like red flowers.


From cddunn@monk.austin.cc.tx.us Thu Mar 16 00:38:19 EST 1995
Article: 58347 of rec.gardens
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From: cddunn@monk.austin.cc.tx.us (charles dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Any experience w/ tuberoses?
Date: 12 Mar 1995 23:38:22 -0600
Organization: Austin Community College
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Tuberoses seldom rebloom here in zone 9.  
Sanny (sanny@aol.com) wrote:
: I have grown tuberoses (zone 6), but do not have success digging them up
: and overwintering them.  They do bloom late and need lots of sun and
: nutrients (not too much nitrogen or you will get only leaves).  They are
: inexpensive enough to just buy new ones.  And they do smell great!!


From crunchy@email.unc.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:21 EST 1995
Article: 58348 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!email.unc.edu!crunchy
From: Penny Ward <crunchy@email.unc.edu>
Newsgroups: news.config,news.groups,misc.consumers,misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Propose new group: alt.living.tightwad
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:21:38 -0500
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
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On Sun, 12 Mar 1995, David O. Laro wrote:

> I'd love to get more info about Maxlife before I consider subscribing.
> I've had to drop one list already because of excessive traffic, you
> know, 150 posts or so per day and you get behind pretty fast.

If you don't want a high-traffic list, you don't want Maxlife.  While
we're not up to 150 posts a day, it still can fill up your mailbox pretty
fast.  Many people opt to subscribe under the digest format. 

> How old is the list?  

It's a little over 2 years old.

> What is the tone of the list (flame-happy? Never?)

It's not "flame-happy," but we've had our bad spells...  People are 
talking about lifestyle issues, so ideologies sometimes clash.

> Where do the bulk of subscribers reside (US, Canada, Uganda, or S America?)

We have about 425 subscribers, mostly in the U.S.

> Who owns the list and from where?

It's owned and originated by Sharon Gordon, at the University of North
Carolina at Greensboro.  However, it's now *run* from UNC-Chapel Hill,
since UNC-G's server couldn't handle the volume of mail.  I handle list
maintenance in terms of subscriptions, questions, etc. since I'm here at
UNC-CH. 

> And whatever else you can tell me about it.

You can get a copy of our info file by sending a message to:
    listserv@listserv.unc.edu
The message should say:
     info maxlife


Penny Ward
crunchy@email.unc.edu


From plantone@iquest.net Thu Mar 16 00:38:23 EST 1995
Article: 58349 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: plantone@iquest.net (Stan)
Subject: Re: indoor fluorescent lighting
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:36:45 GMT
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<D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com> <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu>
Organization: IQuest Network Services
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In article <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu>, dawn@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Dawn Burgess) says:

>.... Stan says that the professional growers Kevin
>talked to must have meant "horticultural cool whites" ...

after re-reading my post... i find i said nothing of the kind.
in fact, i was trying to imply the opposite, that the growers
that Kevin talked about probably meant non-horticultural lamps.


From plantone@iquest.net Thu Mar 16 00:38:25 EST 1995
Article: 58350 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: plantone@iquest.net (Stan)
Subject: Re: indoor fluorescent lighting
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<D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com> <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu> <3k0ebt$oar@crl6.crl.com>
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misrepresentation of what i am saying is nothing i have
control over, but for the record:

- i never said that colour corrected flour. lamps are *required*

- i was not making my recommendations based on cost, and if cost
is your number one concern, then don't even think about lighting
designed specifically for horticulture

- my objectives in gardening is getting maximum yield of the
highest quality fruits and vegetables possible.  in order to
achieve this, *i* have found that using specialized lighting
has produced better final yield... albiet, my techniques in all
areas have improved, thus providing an overall improvement.

- Lynn, i have found a one day difference in plant seedlings
has equated to more that a 25% differnece in final harvest
weights of some veggies at the end of the season.  Lighting is
only one factor (and a small one at that) that effects initial
seedling growth.  as mentioned in previous post, my main thing
is indoor gardening (start to finish), and finishing plant height
is a critical factor to me.  when using just plain cool whites,
i consistantly ended up with taller (not desireable) final plants
even when the lamps were only 1/2 to 1 inch above the seedlings.

- my goal is not to get people to switch to *expensive* grow
lights.  I like what *i* use (as much as others like what they
use) for whatever reason, and i answer post referenced to my
gardening experience.

Stan


From sjmoore@interlog.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:26 EST 1995
Article: 58351 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!interlog.com!sjmoore.interlog.com!user
From: sjmoore@interlog.com (Steven Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Is "Roundup" Safe Way To Kill A Lawn
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:12:46 -0500
Organization: Moore Partners Ltd.
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <sjmoore-1303950912460001@sjmoore.interlog.com>
References: <wdill-0603951752220001@ip067.lax.primenet.com> <3jkhku$d5t@werner.cs.mtu.edu> <3jrho4$4l1@baja.pacificrim.net>
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In article <3jrho4$4l1@baja.pacificrim.net>, rbgreg@pacificrim.net (Bruce
Gregory) wrote:

> In article <3jkhku$d5t@werner.cs.mtu.edu>, jgtusciu@mtu.edu (John
Tusciuk) says:
> >
> >Bill Dill (wdill@Primenet.com) wrote:
> >: I got an estimate from a a landscaper for replacing my lawn.  I was
> >: surprised to learn that the major part of the job was killing and removing
> >: the old lawn.  He said that he would use a product called "Roundup".  I
> >: have 2 children so I'm concerned about the possible health problems I've
> >: heard associated with using herbicides and pesticides.  
> >
> >: Can anyone tell me anything about Roundup?  Is there any truly safe way to
> >: kill off a lawn?
> >
> >: Thanks for the info.
> >
> >I've never heard of Roundup causing any problems, but if you are
> >worried about it, ask the landscaper for the chemical data sheets
> >(there's some acronym for these, but I can't remember it).  These list
> >all of the possible hazards associated with use of a given chemical
> >and employers (at least in Michigan) have to have these someplace
> >accessible to any employees that may be exposed to the chemical, so
> >I'm sure he's at least got a copy.
> >
> >John Tusciuk

OK. I've been lurking on this thread for some time now and though I would
wade in with another perspective. The active ingredient in Roundup is
called glyphosate. The Environmental Protection Agency reports that it
persists in the soil for 1-6 months, in water for 10-100 days. It has a
possibility to cause cancer (only proven so far in lab animals), and is
highly toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates.

The "inert" ingredients such as POEA are three times as toxic as
glyphosate, but the manufacturer does not have to put this on the label
because of a legal loophole. 

There are lots of problems with Roundup, too many to list here. Contact
The Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides, P.O. Box 1393,
Eugene, Oregon 97440, Ph. (503) 344-5044 for complete information. Ask for
their glyphosate information package. I would never use gluphosate where
children or pets might walk in the next 6 months.

You might consider killing existing turfgrass with a heavy mulch or black
plastic.
> >jgtusciu@cs.mtu.edu
> From all the sources I have gathered Roundup is very safe, it breaks
> down in the root structures in ten to fourteen days, can be used and 
> applied with minimal protection, rubber gloves.
-- 
Cheers...

Steven Moore - sjmoore@interlog.com


From rcvaiden@prairienet.org Thu Mar 16 00:38:27 EST 1995
Article: 58352 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!rcvaiden
From: rcvaiden@prairienet.org (Robert C. Vaiden)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Milkweed--where to fi
Date: 13 Mar 1995 14:36:36 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <3k1l9k$e7@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Had to throw in my 2 cents on milkweed.  Of course, before all
the prairies here in Illinois were destroyed, the dominant plants
were all long lived perennials, not short lived, aggressive plants
(weeds!??) like common milkweed.  Many other members of the family
are long lived, beautiful flowers (actually, common milkweed is 
beautiful too!), and not at all "weed-like".  So, I imagine,
in the old days, the "common" milkweed wasn't common-but the others
were.  Humans have "selected"-by their activities- the plants
they like the least!

What's really funny is the way these plants are described in
catalogs....you won't see the word "milkweed" !!!  Instead, it
will be "Orange Glory FLower (!)" (they don't even use the
term "butterflyweed" much anymore!).....instead of Asclepias 
tuberosa.  I also want to put in a good word for Asclepias
incarnata (Swamp or Marsh Milkweed).  It doesn't need a swamp
(so it can be a good garden plant), it's a beautiful pink,
and smells absolutely wonderful!  It should be more appreaciated!

Bob Vaiden


In a previous article, revans@msbbs.com (Ruth Evans) says:

>>>steven@rain.org () wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would like to know where Milkweed can be obtained?  I work at a ga
>>>> center and none of my plant material suppliers have it.  Can someone
>>>> me the botanical name?  I can't find it in the most basic garden boo
>>>> Sunset is useless, much to my surprise.  Thanks in advance.
>>>>
>
>Milkweed is kind of a generic name for plants that produce a "milk."
>There are many different kinds.
>



From ssanders@umich.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:28 EST 1995
Article: 58353 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!usenet
From: Susan Sanders <ssanders@umich.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Aug/Sept PERENNIALS
Date: 13 Mar 1995 14:46:12 GMT
Organization: The University of Michigan
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
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In article <3jo6ob$6lv@newsbf02.news.aol.com> BUKTOP, buktop@aol.com
writes:
>I am looking for some perennials that would do well in one half day
>afternoon sun, would be about three feet tall and red or bright pink in
>color that would do well in Illinois in clay soil and bloom for a good
>part of Aug. and Sept.  I have thought of Firefly Phlox or perhaps some

Japanese anemone meets all of your criteria and is an absolutely carefree
plant.  There are varieties in a number of shades of pink.  It would like
a little soil improvement but would probably do OK even without it.  I
have one (actually this one is the closely-related Anemone vitifolia) in
a particularly favorable spot that I planted there about 6 years ago is
now about 4' wide, that had about 500 flowers on it last year (I'm
serious).  Truly gorgeous.  It's especially nice to have this form of
flower (that is, not a composite, i.e. chrysanthemum) at this time of
year.          -Sue Sanders


From tigibson@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:29 EST 1995
Article: 58354 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 09:40:24 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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i found a lone johnny jump up (viola) blooming by my patio yesterday. i
had to move the snow and ice off to really see it. my heart was lifted!
then i discovered that my yellow crocus are getting ready to open.
it really is march!

tigibson


From tigibson@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:30 EST 1995
Article: 58355 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: hollyhock eaters
Date: 13 Mar 1995 09:41:54 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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i had beautiful pink hollyhock blooms last year. and then something ate my
leaves, leaving only the veins!
i'm an organic gardener and i need suggestions for how to deal with this
year.
any ideas?

tigibson


From coltremb@rsvs.ulaval.ca Thu Mar 16 00:38:31 EST 1995
Article: 58356 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.mcgill.ca!clouso.crim.ca!athena.ulaval.ca!prokaryota.rsvs.ulaval.ca!user
From: coltremb@rsvs.ulaval.ca (Colette Tremblay)
Subject: Re: Love lies bleeding-Amaranthus
Message-ID: <coltremb-1303950946270001@prokaryota.rsvs.ulaval.ca>
Sender: news@athena.ulaval.ca
Nntp-Posting-Host: prokaryota.rsvs.ulaval.ca
Organization: Universite Laval
References: <13MAR95.08410221.0046@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 05:46:27 GMT
Lines: 25
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I planted L-L-B in my front yard last year (6 week-old seedlings, full
sun). It grew like crazy with almost no care: a nearby small crabapple
tree that was planted the same spring got to be almost hidden! It grew to
mre than five feet and by the end of the sumer the long tassels made quite
a showpiece. There is a bus stop by my house, and all the time people kept
asking what was this plant. So my only advice is: if you want to grow it
in containers, use big ones.
Good luck! 


 In article (Dans l'article) <13MAR95.08410221.0046@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>,
"D. Savoie" <LS45@UNB.CA> wrote (écrivait) :

> One book I have mentions that Love lies bleeding looks good in a
> container with the tassles hanging down (I thought about a grain
> barrel), but none of the catalogues I have mention it being good
> for containers, and so I was wondering what others had done with
> theirs.  Thanks for your assistance,
> D. Savoie

-- 
Colette Tremblay
Universite Laval
Quebec QC Canada
Zone 4b


From ab860@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Mar 16 00:38:32 EST 1995
Article: 58357 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab860
From: ab860@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (David L. Martin)
Subject: Re: Compost piles
Message-ID: <D5DvCB.BIv@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ab860@freenet3.carleton.ca (David L. Martin)
Reply-To: ab860@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (David L. Martin)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <Pine.A32.3.91.950313015125.53057A-100000@yu1.yu.edu> <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3jtmes$ags@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:38:34 GMT
Lines: 19
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In a previous posting, Jeff Stier (jstier@yu1.yu.edu) writes:
> My compost pile cooled off over the winter...plenty of 
> carbon material.......but now what.

I wouldn't worry about it.  Whatever was working before will recommence
naturally.

> You mentioned yeast- how does that help?  Because its alive?

Partly, but using already composted material is the best.

> I hear hops are good....
> What else can I use?  Produce/salad clippings? 

Almost anything organic from vegetable matter (i.e. NOT MEAT).  Produce,
salad clippings, potatoe peels, tea, newspapers . . .





From ab860@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Mar 16 00:38:34 EST 1995
Article: 58358 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab860
From: ab860@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (David L. Martin)
Subject: Re: Heat & Light for Seeds
Message-ID: <D5DvK4.CB8@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ab860@freenet3.carleton.ca (David L. Martin)
Reply-To: ab860@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (David L. Martin)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3k1gp9$d1b@shore.shore.net>  
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:43:16 GMT
Lines: 13
Status: O
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In a previous posting, Joann M. Hnat (jmh@shore.net) writes:
> TIGIBSON (tigibson@aol.com) wrote:
> : do seedlings have to have artificial light? i'd like to get by with a
> : southern exposure. input please.
> 
> No artificial light needed -- I have all sorts of seedlings growing in my 
> south-facing windows.

Uh, depends on where you are; we who live in the "great white north"
(well, actually not so great) need the artificial light, for a while at
least.  Also, temperatures by southern windows might be extremely variable
(again, the further north you get . . .)



From jquade@infi.net Thu Mar 16 00:38:35 EST 1995
Article: 58359 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!usenet
From: jquade@infi.net (Jeff Quade)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: How to deal with Ryegrass in garden area
Date: 13 Mar 1995 15:09:09 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3k1n6l$c20@lucy.infi.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: h-gray.richmond.infi.net
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I tilled up my vegetable garden last fall and sowed ryegrass as
a winter cover. Now I'm having a time hoeing through the root
mats to put in my early stuff. Anyone else use rye as a cover
like this? I never thought it would get so well established
over a few months; I'm afraid I'll be fighting it all summer 
even after I till again. Anyone got suggestions? I'm in
Richmond, Va.

================ Jeff Quade == jquade@richmond.infi.net ===============
 


From jquade@infi.net Thu Mar 16 00:38:36 EST 1995
Article: 58360 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!usenet
From: jquade@infi.net (Jeff Quade)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Paw Paw tree???
Date: 13 Mar 1995 15:11:26 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3k1nau$c20@lucy.infi.net>
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In article <3k1fer$pr9@pipe4.pipeline.com>, jbachman@pipeline.com (John Bachman) says:
>
>Paw paws grew wild in West Virginia where I grew up.  I describe the fruit
>as a cross between a banana and a custard cream pie.  It is softer and
>sweeter than a banana. 
>
I'm in Richmond, Va.. My wife and I planted pawpaw seeds last fall, hoping
for a pawpaw "crop" in a few years. I've heard about a fungus that must be
in the soil for the pawpaws to bear fruit - that the plant will
gros fine but never bear unless this symbiotic fungus is present.
Anyone know about this??


From glenn@eri.erinet.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:38 EST 1995
Article: 58361 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!news.erinet.com!eri.erinet.com!not-for-mail
From: glenn@eri.erinet.com (Michael Glenn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Clemantis
Date: 13 Mar 1995 01:37:32 -0500
Organization: EriNet Online 513 436-9915
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I have Jackmani, Henryi, Nelly Moser that I planted last year. If I 
remember correctly, some Clemantis you cut all the way back this time of 
year, while other you only give a light haircut.

Could someone tell me where thies fit into the pruning regiment.

Thank you.

glenn@erinet.com


From hageja00@hg.uleth.ca Thu Mar 16 00:38:39 EST 1995
Article: 58362 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!holly.cc.uleth.ca!news
From: hageja00@hg.uleth.ca (KRAMER)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Good Landscape Design Software?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 15:29:06 GMT
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k1oc2$bqs@holly.cc.uleth.ca>
References: <3jtqvv$md0@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
Reply-To: hageja00@hg.uleth.ca
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Expert Landscape Design for Windows by Expert Software, Inc. is a pretty good
program if not a little simple.  Comes complete with libraries of icons and
symbols for your overhead or straight away view.

In article <3jtqvv$md0@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, FZVC12A@prodigy.com (Celeste Wegner) writes:
>Any response to your landscape design software question--any 
>recommendations for a good package?
>-
>  CELESTE WEGNER  FZVC12A@prodigy.com
>
>


From hageja00@hg.uleth.ca Thu Mar 16 00:38:40 EST 1995
Article: 58363 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!holly.cc.uleth.ca!news
From: hageja00@hg.uleth.ca (KRAMER)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Alberta gardens
Date: 13 Mar 1995 15:32:49 GMT
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <3k1oj1$bqs@holly.cc.uleth.ca>
References: <3ja2va$qlu@news.sas.ab.ca>,<3jt6g6$gi4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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>In <3ja2va$qlu@news.sas.ab.ca>, tedarmst@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () writes:
>>I have retired and am looking to upgrade my garden this year.  We have a 
>>short hot growing season here in Alberta.  Are there any gardeners in 
>>similar hot/cold zones where I could ask a question and receive advice.  I am 
>>quite a novice apart from cutting grass and planting the occasional bedding 
>>plant.  
>>Perhaps there are books the more experienced gardener could 
>>recommend.  Hope you can help me...I feel spring in the air already 
>>despite the fact the temperature this morning is minus 20 degrees Centigrade!
>>
>>Hi Ted!  There are a series of books put out about gardening in the Prairies here
>in Alberta that are excellent.  The titles include "Perennials for the Prairies", 
>"Annuals for the Prairies" and "Woody Ornamentals for the Prairies".  You can
>pick these up at most book stores. In addition, the U of A puts out a home
>gardening course which includes a text book also available at most bookstores.
>It also has a great deal of useful info ranging from turf to veggies to fruit trees,
>etc.      
>
>There used to be a help line anyone in Alta could call at the Alberta Horticultural
>Centre (Alberta Agriculture), but funding cuts saw its demise. However, there
>are a number of good souls there that would likely help, as there are as the
>Muttart Conservatory in Edmonton, etc. 
>
>If I can be of help, please feel free to email me. I am not a horticulturalist but I
>am a Master Gardener and have lots of books...
>
>Any other Alta gardeners out there waiting with baited breath for spring????
>
>Dawn Campbell, St. Albert, AB, Canada

I'm not a master gardener. Probably more of a farmer than anything else, but I
am the field manager for our community garden project and sustainable living
centre here in Lethbridge, Alberta!



From bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Mar 16 00:38:41 EST 1995
Article: 58364 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bs812
From: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Subject: Re: Yucchhh! Earwigs
Message-ID: <D5DxKE.IMM@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: bs812@freenet2.carleton.ca (Janet Malowany)
Reply-To: bs812@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Janet Malowany)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 15:26:37 GMT
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In a previous posting, Liz Evangelatos (liz@pacific.net) writes:
> Any advice out their on how to get rid of earwigs? I never see them, but   
> their like a plague eating through my yard....
> 
	Since you can't see them, I would suggest crumpling up pieces of
newspaper and put them in your garden.  The earwigs should be attracted
the this and walk inside the paper which is like a maze.  They should get
lost inside.  Every day, you should check the paper, open it up and shake
off the earwigs and send them in a container full of soapy water,  This
method works for me. :)

Janet


--
"Horse, thou art truly a creature without equal, for thou fliest
without wings and conquerest without sword."
						-The Koran


From runderwo@plains.NoDak.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:43 EST 1995
Article: 58365 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!ns1.nodak.edu!plains!runderwo
From: runderwo@plains.NoDak.edu (Robert Underwood)
Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?
Sender: usenet@ns1.nodak.edu (Usenet login)
Message-ID: <D5CtIo.tD9@ns1.nodak.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 01:01:36 GMT
References: <3jgiif$8oj@kaleka.seanet.com> <3jhugn$1vu@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,<1995Mar7.105754.4500@driftwood.cray.com> <1995Mar8.201425.12223@mecn.mass.edu> <3jqk3p$pg7@tadpole.fc.hp.com>
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The blooming snowmobiles just quit yesterday.  I did see one tulip with a 
lot of guts sticking its leaves through the mud today.  Probable 3 weeks 
till a hint of spring in Turtle Mts. but then it gets beautiful.  
Zone 2 in the hills.


From voorlichter@mi.rulimburg.nl Thu Mar 16 00:38:44 EST 1995
Article: 58366 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!rlmix1.rulimburg.nl!mi0027.rulimburg.nl!voorlichter
From: voorlichter@mi.rulimburg.nl (Voorlichter WP medische informatica)
Subject: Growing mimosa
Message-ID: <voorlichter.36.2F646322@mi.rulimburg.nl>
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 15:22:10 GMT
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Hello,

Last sunday I saw at the local gardencenter mimosa, it was blooming very 
nicely.
I know this plant of hollidays in the south of France and Spain and was 
asking myself if it is possible to keep this plant in the north in a much 
colder climat like The Netherlands, Germany or Belgium (I live near the 
crossingpoint of these countries in Maastricht, The Netherlands) because it 
is really beautiful.
I think you have keep it at a cool place in winter but still how is growing?
If somebody keeps them in a colder climat has any information (also about 
its origin, etc.), I am very curious.
Other subtropic plants like oleander, hibiscus do grow here.

Thanks in advance,

Danielle


From birdmommy@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:45 EST 1995
Article: 58367 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: birdmommy@aol.com (Birdmommy)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: indoor fluorescent lighting
Date: 13 Mar 1995 10:57:40 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 8
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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the vitalite might have set you back a bit for the turtle, but look at the
bright side, (grin, no pun)  after you can't use it for the turtle any
more (I think they recommend replacing them yearly, the light not the
turtle) you can use it for your plants!  I'm on year three with my 40"
ones and my plants just LOVE them!

molli
Denver zone 5


From birdmommy@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:46 EST 1995
Article: 58368 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: birdmommy@aol.com (Birdmommy)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: "Potting" plants
Date: 13 Mar 1995 10:57:45 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Ok, stupid question time, my 7 year old asked me and *I* don't know the
answer!  (Gee, Mom really DOESN'T know everything)  can you (has anyone)
ever grown tomatoes, peppers etc. INSIDE in containers in the winter?  Can
it be done?  Will it work? Can we have fresh Tomatoes and Peppers all
winter?


molli
Denver zone 5


From n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:47 EST 1995
Article: 58369 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!henson!news
From: n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Stephanie Feeney)
Subject: herb gardening in the Pacific Northwest
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.154819.2879@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
To: twarner@nmo.gtegsc.com
Sender: news@henson.cc.wwu.edu (USENET-WWU)
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Greetings from one who loves to garden with herbs in this area (actually in 
Bellingham.)  I might suggest a very pleasant way to decide what you'd like to 
grow by visiting some of this regions fabulous herb nurseries, as their 
display gardens will give you design ideas and you can see what varieties of 
various plants do well here.  One place that's a real pioneer in growing herbs 
here is The Herbfarm in Fall City (also a smaller store on Queen Anne in 
Seattle).  If you have access to a FAX machine they offer a unique service:  
FastFAX.  Dial (206) 222-7004 and follow their directions. If you enter 8888 
you will receive a full index of their offerings:  which can be as diverse as 
a map to get to the nursery, tips on growing various herbs, recipes from their 
nationally famous restaurant ...
Other places you might want to explore are:  Herban Renewal Herb Garden and 
Nursery, 10437 19th Ave. SW, Seattle  tel. (206) 243-8821;  Fairlight Gardens 
in Auburn, Fairie Herb Gardens in Olympia, Sassafras Farm on Whidbey Island, 
Silver Bay Herb Farm near Bremerton .. there are lots more.  Also call The 
Herb Cottage in Redmond (206) 558-0857 or any of the nurseries I have 
mentioned--they all have terrific classes on growing, cooking with and using 
herbs.
If you have more specific questions perhaps I could help.
Cheers,  Stephanie Feeney
"The Northwest Gardeners' Resource Directory"
n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu


From pattibelle@delphi.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:48 EST 1995
Article: 58370 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Sun Loving annuals
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 23:50:44 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <5g062qc.pattibelle@delphi.com>
References: <D588yA.3H4@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
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Status: O
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Another good sun annual is cosmos.
 


From pattibelle@delphi.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:49 EST 1995
Article: 58371 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: california storm
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 23:53:49 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <5g87umV.pattibelle@delphi.com>
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Storm damage in downtown Napa was not as great as in January, but the
river was higher.  Reason:  the creeks had been cleared of their brush
and debris by the January flood.
 
I've a stash of plants just waiting for some nicer weather.  Bought a
15 gal. prunus Vesuvious today for $32.90, plus some trellises for
star jasmine.  Is the sun ever going to shine again on sunny CA?
 
Pat in Napa, CA


From pattibelle@delphi.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:50 EST 1995
Article: 58372 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pruning Dwarf Conifers
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 23:58:20 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <5A14uOU.pattibelle@delphi.com>
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Jan, don't know about your spruces and cedrus, but one year I had HAD it
with a Pinus Mugho Mugho that wasn't behaving like a mugho, so I really
cut it back.  At that point I didn't care if it lived or died.  Well, it
has branched out into a lovely Pinus Mugho Mugho.  Sorry I can't offer
you wise advice about your pruning.
 
Pat in Napa, CA


From raiar@vulcan.inlink.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:52 EST 1995
Article: 58373 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!thor.inlink.com!vulcan.inlink.com!raiar
From: raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Plants from vegetable seeds??
Date: 13 Mar 1995 00:36:07 GMT
Organization: inlink
Lines: 8
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Just try, most of the time you can.
Some hybrids are crosses between varieties and you will end up with something totally different.
Or in some cases, the seeds are sterile.

Never hurts to give it a shot though.

Gary



From cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 16 00:38:53 EST 1995
Article: 58374 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk (Gary Cooper)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!wordshop.demon.co.uk!Cooper
Subject: Re: Who is Martha???????
References: <7786-186557701@mcube.com>
Organization: Wordshop
Reply-To: cooper@wordshop.demon.co.uk
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In article <7786-186557701@mcube.com> rshiell@mcube.com  writes:

> Martha Stewart is a wealthy woman who produces magazines, books, and
> videos devoted to gardening and entertaining in outlandish, quaint,
> and/or picturesque ways, involving huge amounts of time and labor (by
> her corps of servants).  She appears never to break a sweat or get
> dirty.  Seems sort of like a cross between Tinkerbell and Patton.

Errr, was Patton the one with the wand and the tutu? I get 
confused....;-)


-- 
Gary Cooper


From kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu Thu Mar 16 00:38:54 EST 1995
Article: 58375 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!NewsWatcher!user
From: kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kris Benarcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Crab Grass -- how to grow??
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 13 Mar 1995 16:18:10 GMT
Organization: Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <kbenarc1-130395111759@130.58.39.51>
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In article <3k06ms$sfa@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, nadiai@aol.com (NadiaI)
wrote:

> I would like to grow crab grass for a high traffic/dog area.  Any ideas
> how
> I could go about this?


From liz@pacific.net Thu Mar 16 00:38:56 EST 1995
Article: 58376 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!emf.emf.net!hilbert.dnai.com!nbn!miwok!pacific.net!usenet
From: Liz Evangelatos <liz@pacific.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Yucchhh! Earwigs
Date: 13 Mar 1995 07:41:37 GMT
Organization: Pacific Internet
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Any advice out their on how to get rid of earwigs? I never see them, but   
their like a plague eating through my yard....



From lssac@luxor.latrobe.edu.au Thu Mar 16 00:38:58 EST 1995
Article: 58377 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!lugb!luxor.latrobe.edu.au!lssac
From: lssac@luxor.latrobe.edu.au (Maryanne Todd)
Subject: Herbs that grow in shade
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.013914.27171@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>
Sender: Maryanne   (lssac@luxor.latrobe.edu.au)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 01:39:14 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
Lines: 22
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We are the brand new owners of a house with a garden - absolute bliss
after a flat with a balcony!  In the back garden is this marvellous 
piece of ground about 4 1/2 metres diameter sorrounded by bluestone -
a rim and wall, meaning the entire region is about 15cm sunken.  This
would make a perfect circular herb garden.  I've had my eye on it for
this ever since we first saw the place.

Unfortunately, I've discovered it actually gets very little direct
sunlight each day - about 1 hour direct, about 5 hours filtered (through
the leaves of a silky oak) and the rest of the time rather dense shade.
I'm not getting rid of the silky oak - a beautiful tree! - so, the
question is - do any herbs grow well in shade, and if so, which ones!

A list of herbs that are shade lovers or shade tolerant would be greatly
appreciated.  Any herb list would be appreciated, and if it isn't
suited to our area I can find out.  I'm in Melbourne, Australia, so
please don't ask me for my zone, we don't have any!

Much thanks                 Maryanne     (lssac@luxor.latrobe.edu.au)
.




From duane@magma.zk3.dec.com Thu Mar 16 00:38:59 EST 1995
Article: 58378 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!caen!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!lead.zk3.dec.com!magma.zk3.dec.com!duane
From: duane@magma.zk3.dec.com (Andrew Duane USG/PE)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: last frost date for Boston?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 16:07:20 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <3k1qjo$bu7@lead.zk3.dec.com>
References: <gate.9yqe2c1w165w@bbs.gatecom.com> <gaumond-1003950855120001@gaumond.mitre.org>
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Status: O
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In article <gaumond-1003950855120001@gaumond.mitre.org> gaumond@mitre.org (Eric Gaumond) writes:
>In article <gate.9yqe2c1w165w@bbs.gatecom.com>, shyguy@bbs.gatecom.com
>(Scott shy) wrote:
>
>> According to an Ortho reference book I have, the last frost date for
>> Boston is April 5th and the first one in the fall is November 8th.
>> 
> This sounds way too early to me.  I live in NH, just 40 miles north of
>Boston, and our last frost date is about May 22.  I rarely set out
>tomatoes and peppers before Memorial Day.

I live in Derry, NH, also about 40 miles north of Boston.
My LFD is about May 1, not May 22. April 5 sounds pretty good for
Boston; remember that the coast effect mellows their temperatures
a lot. This spring is also shaping up to be warm....

--

Andrew L. Duane (JOT-7)			duane@zk3.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation		(603)-881-1294
110 Spit Brook Road			http://www.zk3.dec.com/~duane
M/S ZKO3-3/U14
Nashua, NH    03062-2698

Only my cat shares my opinions, and her catnip wintered over.


From jsliney@delphi.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:01 EST 1995
Article: 58379 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: jsliney@delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Natural repellants for cats
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 03:00:21 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <xs6ZWgV.jsliney@delphi.com>
References: <3jprfm$eb4@archive.ny.jpmorgan.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com
X-To: Jeanne Sweeney <sweeney_jeanne@jpmorgan.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 

HI Jeanne,
 
 I had a problem with a cat who loved to jump our 6 foot stockade fence just
 to go to the bathroom in my flower garden, as much as I hated it I didn't want
to harm the cat then someone told me about chili pepper, just sprinkle it where
you don't want the cat it doesn't hurt them just irrates thier nose like pepper
does to ours. Pu
 it down then reapply it every week unless it rains then reapply it right after
the rain. It only took a month for the cat to stop coming in my yard and he
hasn't been back since.
 
                               Jackie


From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:02 EST 1995
Article: 58380 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Guinea Pig poo as fertilizer?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 16:29:08 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3k1rsk$m4u@post.its.mcw.edu>
References: <3k0lbq$gro@potogold.rmii.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac7.crc.mcw.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

Steve Zerbe <sazerb@rmii.com> wrote:
>
>    Someone earlier was discussing rabbit manure as compost.  My 
>  situation is that we have guinea pigs (5) that I would like to
>  move outdoors on warm days in my yard.  
> 
It should be OK.  You might want to rake around any accumulated piles
of droppings or even give it a light sprinkling to dilute any urine (although
I don't really think this would be necessary).  Some years ago I was
able to get used animal bedding for tilling into my garden.  It was a
corncob base mixed, of course, with animal feces (mouse, rat, guinea pig
and rabbit) and urine.  It gave me no problem.  Hope this helps.
Don Martinson				
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu




From rshiell@mcube.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:03 EST 1995
Article: 58381 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!hookup!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcomsv!uucp3.netcom.com!mcube.com!rshiell
Subject: Re: DAYLILIES..
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rshiell@mcube.com
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 23:57:08 EST
Message-ID: <7788-16604803@mcube.com>
Organization: Desert Jewel On-Line Mall
Lines: 40
Status: O
X-Status: 


In response to:
IB>I don't know much about them, but would like to learn.

Daylilies are amazingly adaptable perennials.  They grow from zone 10
(Southern California) to zone 4 (parts of Maine and Minnesota), and
flourish in nearly any soil or light conditions, except deep shade.
They store water in fleshy, thick roots, and can withstand
considerable drought, but also accept wet streamside environments.

Specialty nurseries introduce new hybrids constantly.  Several of
these nurseries advertise in garden magazines.

Most of the best new daylily cultivars are tetraploid (doubled genes),
and some are triploid (an extra chromosome).  A few new types are
compact (about a foot tall), and several re-bloom.

Re-blooming is desirable, as each individual flower lasts about a day
(sic), and a crop of infloresences (flower stalks) only lasts about
three or four weeks in most cases.  Some cultivars flower earlier than
others, and many gardeners perfer to mix several varieties in a single
planting (as one fades, another begins).

Daylilies range from off-white to deep red, and many are two-toned,
with the throat one color and the outer surface another, darker color.
Personally, I love the green + pink and yellow + red combinations.

One species of daylily, Hemerocallis fulva, has become an escaped weed
in parts of the midwest.  Few other species re-seed much, and many
hybrids appear to be sterile.

Richard Shiell, ASLA    Bakersfield, CA         RShiell@mcube.com
---
 ţ SLMR 2.1a ţ Berlandiera lyrata forever!

--
Mainframes, Minis & Micros     |     Running MajorBBS and Internet!
5630 District Blvd.   #114     |     Desert Jewel BBS & OnLine Mall
Bakersfield, CA      93313     |     Discounted Hardware & Software
LandLine  ==  800-949-1959     |     BBS == 805-397-2063 14.4 n-8-1


From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:04 EST 1995
Article: 58382 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Holly and pollination
Date: 13 Mar 1995 16:36:26 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <3k1saa$m4u@post.its.mcw.edu>
References: <3juqr4$afs@news.bu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac7.crc.mcw.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

sfo@bu.edu (Samme Orwig) wrote:
>
> 
> When planting different varieties
> of ilex, must one buy the male
> pollinator to match each type
> of female shrub or tree?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
In most cases, the answer is yes. First, I don't know the degree to
which different species of Ilex cross pollinate.  Unless you know specifically
that they do, assume that they don't.  Second, even within a species, such
as Ilex verticellata, there are early bloomers and late bloomers, so you
must make sure that you have the female and male of the same type otherwise
you'll one will be blooming and the other "won't be ready yet" or it
will already have done its thing - a frustrating situation for any sexually 
reproducing species!
Don Martinson				
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu

"Existing order thrives upon ignoranceand lies.  
Objective truth and individual reason are feared above all." 



From werner.stern@factory.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:06 EST 1995
Article: 58383 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!caen!crl.dec.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!psinntp!factory!werner.stern
From: werner.stern@factory.com (Werner Stern) 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: digging up grass-bound pl
Message-ID: <16645.2904.uupcb@factory.com>
Date: 12 Mar 95 22:40:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York NY - 212-274-8110
Reply-To: werner.stern@factory.com (Werner Stern) 
Lines: 33
Status: O
X-Status: 

TO: kyle@madrona.engr.washington.edu



K>.@N FROM   :kyle@madrona.engr.washington.edu
K>.@N MSGID  :<kyle.29.00119AB0@madrona.engr.washington.edu>
K>N Path:
K>uupsi!psinntp!cmcl2!panix!bloom-
beacon.mit.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexa
K>s.edu!news.sprintlink.ne From: kyle@madrona.engr.washington.edu
K>Newsgroups: rec.gardens
K>Subject: digging up grass-bound plants
K>Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 17:36:08
K>Message-ID: <kyle.29.00119AB0@madrona.engr.washington.edu>

K>I have a clematis growing on a fence. Grass has moved in completely
K>around the  base of the plant, which is not all that old (maybe 5
K>years). Is it wise to  dig it up so I can make a little bed for it,
K>or should I just leave it alone?  If I dig, how do I do so without
K>damaging the roots? Any other options?  Thanks much!

One of the most important things about growing clematis is to keep the
roots cool, so, having another plant growing over the root area is 
perfect. I grow my plants intermixed with shrubs and they grow through
them. When you start a clematis all the manuals advise to cover the 
root area with stone to keep the sun off. You're doing fine.

Regards

Werner

Internet Addr: werner.stern@factory.com



From savilon@xensei.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:07 EST 1995
Article: 58384 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!wizard.pn.com!news.xensei.com!usenet
From: the Savilonis residence <savilon@xensei.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Need Info:  GROWING GIANT PUMPKINS
Date: 13 Mar 1995 16:36:48 GMT
Organization: The Xensei Corporation
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NNTP-Posting-Host: savilon.xensei.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Live in the North East - Cape Cod, Mass. area.  Have been growing the 
"biggies" for many years but never able to obtain more than a 250lb.

Any tips help etc.  Ive used the manuare tea, snip the blossoms and leave on fruit to a vine.

I usually set outdoors about april 15.

Thanks


From reedc@iac.net Thu Mar 16 00:39:08 EST 1995
Article: 58385 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.charm.net!sun.cais.com!news.iac.net!ip043167.iac.net!user
From: reedc@iac.net (Daniela Sciaky)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Bulbs and moving
Date: 13 Mar 1995 02:36:12 GMT
Organization: internet access cincinnati
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <reedc-1203952137420001@ip043167.iac.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip043167.iac.net
Status: O
X-Status: 

I'm moving in July to Albany, NY environs and I have just dug up some
mammouth Asiatic lily bulbs (here in Cincinnati, OH). Is it possible to
preserve the bulbs for transport or should I just return them to the
garden? How are these bulbs split?

Daniela Sciaky


From jk1n+@andrew.cmu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:09 EST 1995
Article: 58386 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!cornell!rochester!casaba.srv.cs.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jk1n+
From: James Michael Kocher <jk1n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 12:39:40 -0500
Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <AjN8BQ_00iV_05YOMU@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <3jkgsm$hqv@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
 <3jlpku$rcr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: po7.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <3jlpku$rcr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 

Let Feverfew go to seed and it will be everywhere in a few years.  I
noticed that lemonbalm pops up in all my beds too.

-Jim, Pittsburgh PA


From markford@saturn.caps.maine.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:10 EST 1995
Article: 58387 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!noc.near.net!saturn.caps.maine.edu!saturn.caps.maine.edu!not-for-mail
From: markford@saturn.caps.maine.edu (Mark H. Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Where to get trees to plant?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 13:09:26 -0500
Organization: University of Maine System
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NNTP-Posting-Host: saturn.caps.maine.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

My wife and I recently bought a farm. One of the pastures is too hilly 
and too rocky to make mowing it a reasonable chore. It does seem to be an 
ideal location for trees.

Where can I buy "Christmas tree" seedlings?

-mark
markford@saturn.caps.maine.edu

Moonrise Farm
RR1-Box 2810
Norway, Maine 04268



From cddunn@monk.austin.cc.tx.us Thu Mar 16 00:39:12 EST 1995
Article: 58388 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!monk.austin.cc.tx.us!monk.austin.cc.tx.us!not-for-mail
From: cddunn@monk.austin.cc.tx.us (charles dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Flaming Compost!
Date: 8 Mar 1995 18:37:06 -0600
Organization: Austin Community College
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <3jliji$pgg@monk.austin.cc.tx.us>
References: <7770-313778003@mcube.com>  <19950301163808.Gordon.Depew@gdepew.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

You city slickers would be dangerous on a farm!!  Every farmer knows that putting up hay green is a good way to burn down the barn!  Just sign me - Country Boy
Gordon Depew (Gordon.Depew@AtlantaGA.NCR.COM) wrote:
: In Article <7770-313778003@mcube.com> "rshiell@mcube.com" says:
: > 
: > I'm with you, Marc.  Humans don't spontaneously combust, and neither do
: > bacteria.  Maybe JohnK mistook steam for smoke rising from those grass
: > clippings.
: > 
: > 
: > IA>In a previous posting, JohnnK (johnnk@aol.com) writes:
: > IA>> Fresh grass clippings, if piled higher than a few inches, can generate
: > IA>> enough heat to start smoldering.  Be particularly careful with them.
: > 
: > IA>I'm intrigued by these reports of compost heaps igniting. It
: > IA>does not make sense that the composting action would be the cause.
: > 
: > IA>The bacteria involved in the process cannot withstand those
: > IA>temperatures; so the heat generated by these same bacteria must
: > IA>be self-regulated, no?
: > 
: > IA>Would it not be more probable that methane gas, ignited by some
: > IA>other trigger such as static discharge, be the cause?
: > IA>Marc
: > 
: > Richard Shiell, ASLA        Bakersfield, CA        RShiell@mcube.com
: > ---
: >  ţ SLMR 2.1a ţ f16 and be there four times as long.
: > 
: > --
: > Mainframes, Minis & Micros     |     Desert Jewel BBS & Online Mall
: > 5630 District Blvd.   #114     |     Telnet to 204.212.36.4
: > Bakersfield, CA      93313     |     FTP to 204.212.36.4
: > LandLine  ==  800-949-1959     |     WWW to http:\\www@204.212.36.4
: > 
:  
: Bales of hay are stacked in barns with the stems running like this
:  
: 			|||||||||||
: 			|||||||||||
: 			|||||||||||
: 			|||||||||||
:  
: rather than like this
: 			__________
: 			__________
: 			__________
: 			__________
:  
: because if you stack them like this ^, your barn might burn down.
:  
: Has to do with water draining out of the stems.
:  
: t'sa fact
:  
: Gordon Depew
:  



From sledford@tpoint.net Thu Mar 16 00:39:13 EST 1995
Article: 58389 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!tpoint!NewsWatcher!user
From: sledford@tpoint.net (Stephen Cullar-Ledford)
Subject: Organic Pest Control?
Message-ID: <sledford-1003951634110001@204.29.207.41>
Sender: news@tpoint.net
Organization: Texas Medical Liability Trust
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 23:34:11 GMT
Lines: 6
Status: O
X-Status: 

We are a Texas Certified Organic greenhouse and are trying to
rid ourselves of spider mites, crickets, moths and fire ants.
We have tried beneficials with little success. Does anyone know
of something that would do the job, be Texas Certified Organic,
and be cost-effective? Does anyone know of organic gardening/
farming resources? Any info would be wonderful.


From Jim.Parra@neighbor.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:14 EST 1995
Article: 58390 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!tpoint!neighbor.com
From: Jim.Parra@neighbor.com
Subject: RE:Organic Pest Control?
Message-ID: <17.47961059.Austin.Family.Net@neighbor.com>
Sender: news@tpoint.net
Organization: Turning Point Information Services
References: <sledford-1003951634110001@204.29.207.41>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 13:28:23 GMT
Lines: 17
Status: O
X-Status: 

> We are a Texas Certified Organic greenhouse and are trying to rid
> ourselves of spider mites, crickets, moths and fire ants. We have tried
> beneficials with little success. Does anyone know of something that
> would do the job, be Texas Certified Organic, and be cost-effective?
> Does anyone know of organic gardening/ farming resources? Any info would
> be wonderful.
Stephen one thing you can do is go the the Organic Gardeners meeting at  
Zilker Botanical Gardens. The next meeting is Mon night at 7:30pm the 13th 
of March. They have many knowledgeable peope there in all aspect of organic 
growing. I notice you email address is here in Austin, TX

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The Green Sysop                    @-->-->-          Remember green side up!
jim.parra@neighbor.com
>-->-->-->-->-->-->-The Neighborhood BBS 512-441-0485>->->->->->->->->->->-> 




From welshg@rl.af.mil Thu Mar 16 00:39:16 EST 1995
Article: 58391 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!psinntp!news.rlcn.rl.af.mil!rl.af.mil!welshg
From: welshg@rl.af.mil (Glenn T. Welsh)
Subject: Wayside Gardens
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.154353.11366@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil>
Sender: news@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil
Nntp-Posting-Host: node_69.ira.rl.af.mil
Reply-To: welshg@rl.af.mil
Organization: Rome Laboratory/PKP
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 15:43:53 GMT
Lines: 6
Status: O
X-Status: 

Prices to high! Quality too low. That's my experience. But they have great 
pictures to help you through the winter! 

Glenn 




From qdttohu@edsvhs2.ericsson.se Thu Mar 16 00:39:18 EST 1995
Article: 58392 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!sunic!sunic.sunet.se!erinews.ericsson.se!ericom!news
From: qdttohu@edsvhs2.ericsson.se (Tomas Hybner)
Subject: Re: Vegetable Plants From Seeds - NOT!
In-Reply-To: jmv@cci.com's message of Fri, 10 Mar 1995 19:16:02 GMT
Message-ID: <QDTTOHU.95Mar13105600@edsvhs2.ericsson.se>
Lines: 84
Sender: news@ericsson.se
Nntp-Posting-Host: edsvhs2.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Data AB
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:56:00 GMT
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <D58o6q.8uz@sunsrvr6.cci.com> jmv@cci.com (James Villard) writes:

   Last year I tried growing vegetables from seeds. I read several books
   on the subject - but seemed to do everthing wrong. I planted tomatoes
   and peppers from seeds because I was told these were very easy to do.


   1) I used peat pots instead of the plastic pots. When it was time to 
      transplant no matter how careful I was every pot broke open and 
      all the roots spilled out. 

   2) I used 2 shop lights for a total of 160 watts of power only about
      six inches away from the pots. When the plant started to grow they
      were long and stringy - I was told I needed more light. They also
      grew straight at the nearest light curving the stems - I tried rotating
      them every few days - finally they look like a silly straw. Yes I
      tin foiled all the way around. 

I'm unfamiliar with what "shop" lights are but given your description of the
result in growth of the plants that they don't produce the sort of light
seedlings need to grow. Normal light bulbs gives of light mainly in the red
and green parts of the spectrum and seedlings needs blue light in order to
grow properly. (I think that red light stimulates plants into growing
vertically while blue simply stimulates them to grow in every possible
direction.) Also, seedlings have a way of tilting their stem so that the
leaves receive the most light, there isn't much to do about it other than
making the light shine from directly over them. (If not you could always rotate
them but I imagine that wastes a bit of the seedlings energy.)

   3) I was told both seeds would germinate at room temperature - only the 
      tomato plants did I had the heat up the pepper seeds to get them to
      germinate. 

It's all a question of what is considered being "room temperature". Amongst my
friends "room temperature" is somewhere between 17 and 23 deg C. Although the
difference between 19 and 21 deg C might not seem much to a human seedlings
seems to be more sensitive.

   4) They did not seem to grow much. The first 2 weeks they did great - then
      after about 2 - 3 inches high - they just stopped growing - nice and
      green but didn't grow any more.


   5) Another thing I don't get is the cost, the trays, the seeds, the soil.
      The electricity is 12 weeks,16 hours a day,160watts, $0.11 a kilowatt.
      That comes up to $23.65 just for electric. 

      I can get good solid plants for $1.99 for 6 - thats at least 72 plants
      I can buy from the store from the money for the electric.

I see your point...

   Am I missing something or is growing plants from seeds very hard to do
   and only for fun and not economically a good idea. 

It is hard to say whether or not it is economical or not, are you supposed to
count the time spent on nursing them as a loss of income? Never the less it
is definitely fun!

   I live in Rochester N.Y. (upstate)

   I would like to try it again this year - I think I would enjoy it but the 
   how-to books really put me on the wrong track. Last year I tried the hi-tech
   expensive way of growing seeds - purchasing everything I needed. 

   Is it possible to just get some good outside topsoil, seed it and put it 
   in the window. Whats the best thing to use for containers, I am looking 
   at about 40 tomato plants and 20 pepper plants. Is the March and April
   sun in upstate N.Y. even strong enough of should I just forget about it. 

If you are interested in cutting costs you could bring up the seedlings in
newspaper-tubes. Tear a strip of paper from a newspaper, roll it around your
fingers or something to make it look like a tube, fill it with whatever soil
you're using and put the seeds in there. When they've grown their first set
of real leaves (which is neither of the two first ones) you can transplant
them into tetra-paks (like the ones you buy milk and juice in made of paper
with an inner coating of plastic). In relation to other plants tomatoe plants
need a ridiculous amount of water, almost to the point where your best bet
would be planting them in a bucket of water. I don't know about peppers though,
you'd better ask someone else...

Good luck!
Tomas



From pulliam@NREL.ColoState.EDU Thu Mar 16 00:39:19 EST 1995
Article: 58393 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!purdue!yuma!pulliam
From: pulliam@NREL.ColoState.EDU (Bill Pulliam)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: indoor fluorescent lighting
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 13 Mar 1995 18:16:21 GMT
Organization: Natural Resource Ecology Lab, Colo. State Univ.
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k225l$363n@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
References: <D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com> <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu> <3k1tne$5bn@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: arundinaria.nrel.colostate.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3k1tne$5bn@dsk92.itg.ti.com> richc@phantom.pac.sc.ti.com (Richard Campbell) writes:
>
[snip]
>
>   I don't disagree with any of this except for the fact that plants at 6"
>from the lights get only 1/3 as much light as plants at 2".  They 
>actually get much less than 1/3, I believe that they would get 1/9 as
>much light.  Doubling the distance from the light source quarters the
>amount of light received.

Not true if the lamps have reflective hoods that direct most
of the light downward and you keep them at close range.  The 
illumination still drops off pretty fast, but it is more like
a inverse proportion to distance, not square of distance,
so long as the distance from the hood is < half its width.

You should still keep your seedlings as close to light as 
possible -- I've been amazed at how much better seedlings grow
with lights 3" versus 6" from the tops of the soil!  They are
perfectly happy with their leaves touching the fluorescent
bulbs directly.

Bill


From gillen@wordperfect.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:20 EST 1995
Article: 58394 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!news.provo.novell.com!news.orem.novell.com!usenet
From: gillen@wordperfect.com (Mike Gillen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: HELP! Need Delphinium seed source
Date: 13 Mar 1995 18:21:21 GMT
Organization: Novell Inc.
Lines: 8
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Does anyone have a source for Delpinium seeds here in U.S. or know of a
source maybe called Superior Seed Co. in England. Follow-up or e-mail
me personally.

Thanks in advance.

Mike Gillen
gillen@wordperfect.com


From gillen@wordperfect.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:22 EST 1995
Article: 58395 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!news.provo.novell.com!news.orem.novell.com!usenet
From: gillen@wordperfect.com (Mike Gillen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: HELP! Need Delphinium seed source
Date: 13 Mar 1995 18:21:31 GMT
Organization: Novell Inc.
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Does anyone have a source for Delpinium seeds here in U.S. or know of a
source maybe called Superior Seed Co. in England. Follow-up or e-mail
me personally.

Thanks in advance.

Mike Gillen
gillen@wordperfect.com


From gillen@wordperfect.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:23 EST 1995
Article: 58396 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!news.provo.novell.com!news.orem.novell.com!usenet
From: gillen@wordperfect.com (Mike Gillen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: HELP! Need Agway Nursury's address/phone
Date: 13 Mar 1995 18:23:25 GMT
Organization: Novell Inc.
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Does anyone have the address or phone number to Agway Nursury? I have
no idea where it's located. Follow-up or e-mail me personally.

Thanks in advance.

Mike Gillen
gillen@wordperfect.com


From qdttohu@edsvhs2.ericsson.se Thu Mar 16 00:39:24 EST 1995
Article: 58397 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!sunic.sunet.se!erinews.ericsson.se!ericom!news
From: qdttohu@edsvhs2.ericsson.se (Tomas Hybner)
Subject: Re: Vegetable Plants From Seeds - NOT!
In-Reply-To: qdttohu@edsvhs2.ericsson.se's message of Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:56:00 GMT
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 10:29:08 GMT
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About using top-soil from your garden. Sterilize it first! You can do that by steaming
the soil. Fill the bottom of a cooking-pot with small clean rocks up to about two
inches, pour water over it so that the whaterlevel does not rise entirely above the
rocks and then put the soil in (don't stir!). When the water simmers/boils the steam
will find it's way through the soil and heat it to approximately the boiling point
of water. This will kill almost everything in the soil that you don't want but it
will preserve the things that you do want. Don't let it get too hot!
When the soil is steaming you have hopefully succeeded in sterilizing the soil.
Don't use the lowest layer of soil and don't blame me for any unwanted effects this has
to whatever pot you were using!


From daurio@lamb.cig.mot.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:25 EST 1995
Article: 58398 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!lamb!daurio
From: daurio@lamb.cig.mot.com (Suzanne Daurio)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: lady slippers
Date: 13 Mar 95 18:04:25 GMT
Organization: Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group
Lines: 19
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <daurio.795117865@lamb>
References: <daurio.794580599@lamb> <QjLQp=e00iV9E36tVj@andrew.cmu.edu> <3jl4og$2qo@news.bu.edu>
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slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey) writes:

>This seems like a good opportunity to teach your child that they can't HAVE
>everything that's pretty or neat -- some things belong to nature and can be
>enjoyed only by going TO them, not by bringing them to you.

I agree.  This certainly makes the ladyslippers even more special in my
mind.  If we ever get the chance to see them in the wild, I hope we have
our camera so we can at least take a picture!

In the mean time, I think it's also a good opportunity to begin to explore
the world of orchids.  Everyone had some good pointers regarding the 
hybrids, and that's where well start.

Thanks to everyone for all the help.  

-- 
Sue Daurio
daurio@cig.mot.com


From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:26 EST 1995
Article: 58399 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Variegated plants from seed?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 18:45:43 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
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Does anyone out there have any expertise regarding sexual propagation
of plants with variegated foliage. Do (all, some, none, any) come true
from seed?  Any help appreciated.  Post reply or e-mail.
Don Martinson				
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu

"Existing order thrives upon ignorance and lies.  
Objective truth and individual reason are feared above all." 



From kmorgan@vcd.hp.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:27 EST 1995
Article: 58400 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!hp-cv!hp-pcd!news!kmorgan
From: kmorgan@vcd.hp.com (kathy morgan)
Subject: Re: strawberry pots
Sender: news@vcd.hp.com (News user)
Message-ID: <D5E69u.86x@vcd.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 18:34:42 GMT
References: <3jsmdf$sm0@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu> <3juant$i7q@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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Okie Mom (okiemom@aol.com) wrote:
: About trouble watering strawberry pots:  I had trouble with mine until I
: punched holes in a 2 liter soda bottle and buried it in the center with
: only the bottle neck sticking out.  Now I pour water into the bottle as
: well as spraying the top and sides of the pot, and my plants are thriving.

Why, Martha Stewart demonstrated this very technique on her show just
yesterday :-)



From sacks@notime.enet.dec.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:29 EST 1995
Article: 58401 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!jac.zko.dec.com!notime.enet.dec.com!sacks
From: sacks@notime.enet.dec.com (Gerald Sacks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Saving Seeds Not Used This Year
Date: 13 MAR 95 10:29:13
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3k1o3m$9nm@jac.zko.dec.com>
References: <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3jtnae$ast@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <1735FF367S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: NOTIME
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In article <1735FF367S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>, LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU writes...
>I've started some seeds with plans for more.  I won't use all
>the seeds in a packet.  Some will be used for successive planting
>but what to do with the leftovers?  How do I store them?

I just put the packets in ziplock bags and put them in the refrigerator.
Some people add a desiccant like silica gel or powdered milk, but I've
never bothered.  I get good germination from five-year-old tomato seeds.

Gerald Sacks			sacks@notime.enet.dec.com


From n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:30 EST 1995
Article: 58402 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!henson!news
From: n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Stephanie Feeney)
Subject: Re: How good is Heronswood Nursery?
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.151952.25667@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
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Greetings from a Heronswood fan,
I have ordered from Heronswood for the past 4 years, and had the good fortune 
to visit the nursery severaltimes (it is by appointment only and located on 
the Kitsap Peninsula which requires a ferry ride.)  Their selection really is 
ecclectic partly due to the fact that Dan Hinkley travels around the world on 
plant collection trips.  he spent 5 weeks last year in Korea and is about to 
leave for Nepal/the Himalayas.  Much as I love and adore the people and 
selection of this fine nursery I would pass along one caveat:  you can spend a 
lot of money on very special plants that may or may not do well for you in 
your locale.  A word of caution is in order to select what has a chance to 
grow for you in your site and then care well for these plants.  Many of them 
are new to residential gardeners and are not the tough as nails, abuse me if 
you will varieties.  I believe they are well grown by talented professionals, 
but a bit more responsibility will be on your shoulders to establish them 
well.  Personally, I think it is worth it--I only wish I had been more careful 
with some of the things I purchased early on from them.
Hope I haven't been too discouraging!
Cheers, Stephanie Feeney
"The Northwest Gardeners' Resource Directory"
n6848640@henson.cc.wwu.edu


From dougr@thalassa.cnet.att.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:31 EST 1995
Article: 58403 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: dougr@thalassa.cnet.att.com (douglas.rhodes)
Subject: Re: When to plant tomatoes
Message-ID: <D5Duwy.6qC@nntpa.cb.att.com>
Originator: dougr@thalassa
Sender: dougr@thalassa (douglas.rhodes)
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I live in western Morris county and I planted mine on March 1 and I hope for
decent weather to plant by May 1.  You kind of have to check the weather around
May 1 and see.  Sometimes, I don't plant outside until mid-May or later.  You
have to make sure all chances of frost is over.  By then, the plants will be
getting high, you may have to transplant them once or twice to larger pots.
In any event, you can be putting them outside (most likely) during the day
to condition them by end of April.  Living near Newark airport, you should
have slightly warmer weather than me, and you may be able to put them out
earlier (I live at about 900-1000 feet above sea level).

Don't rush to put them outside before it's time.  One frost will ruin your
whole day!

--Doug Rhodes
(dougr@aloft.att.com)




Jeff Stier <Pine.A32.3.91.950312123526.34262A-100000@yu1.yu.edu> writes:

>>I live in North/Central N.J. (near Newark Airport) and am going to plant 
>>tomatoes from seed.   

>>Burpess says to plant them 6-8 weeks before last frost.

>>I have a great southern exposure indoors....
>>Outside the sunlight is adequate but not great.
>>When should I plant indoors and when should I take them out?
>>Thanks
>>******************************************************************************
>>Jeff Stier
>>jstier@yu1.yu.edu
>>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


From nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca Thu Mar 16 00:39:33 EST 1995
Article: 58404 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!nadine
From: nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca (Nadine Leenders)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Alberta gardens
Date: 13 Mar 1995 18:55:18 GMT
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3k24em$eiq@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
References: <3ja2va$qlu@news.sas.ab.ca>,<3jt6g6$gi4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <3k1oj1$bqs@holly.cc.uleth.ca>
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: >Any other Alta gardeners out there waiting with baited breath for spring????
: >
: >Dawn Campbell, St. Albert, AB, Canada

Yup, me.

Another publication to look at is the magazine "Gardening in Alberta" which
recently got renamed for wider western distribution.  It is available at
the Southgate library in Edmonton and at the London Drugs on 51st.  No doubt
it can be found at other locations, but these are places I go to.

Looks like spring is finally arriving!!!

--

Nadine Leenders                    | nadine.leenders@ualberta.ca
Computing and Network Services     | (403) 492-9349
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada   T6G 2H1



From plantone@iquest.net Thu Mar 16 00:39:35 EST 1995
Article: 58405 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!dorite!news
From: plantone@iquest.net (Stan)
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Message-ID: <D5Ds3t.61p@dorite.use.com>
Sender: news@dorite.use.com (News Admin)
Organization: IQuest Network Services
References: <3jan0h$7v8@comet.connix.com> <3js5c4$ak6@shore.shore.net> 
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:28:40 GMT
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<D5A47A.E0B@dorite.use.com> <3jttjp$1ei@thor.inlink.com>
Organization: IQuest Network Services
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6

In article <3jttjp$1ei@thor.inlink.com>, raiar@vulcan.inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.) says:
>
>Hi Bill
>The only way to go is to use Hydro-Sol and then add to that whatever you need.

Bill,

i know one of your jobs is to push your products, but to say that
Hydro-Sol is the *only* way to go is IMO a bit too much.

other nutrients that yield excellent results are:

general hydroponic's flora-mutrients
beautiful plants brand nutrient
eco liquid fertilizers
I&M rockwool formula one

the above nutrients tend to be complete, so mix as directed and go!

Stan


From grumbo@niagara.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:36 EST 1995
Article: 58406 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!niagara.com!slip0.niagara.com!grumbo
From: grumbo@niagara.com (Grahame Rumsby)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Fertilizing perennials (Rockery in particular)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:01:55 UNDEFINED
Organization: Internet Connect Niagara
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I planted a rock garden last year which is approximately 50 -60' in 
length..............
I was wondering what type of fertilizing should be done in the spring with 
these plants which are now beginning to see the light of day after the snow 
has melted...

Grahame


From cirsium@halcyon.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:37 EST 1995
Article: 58407 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!usenet
From: cirsium@halcyon.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Need help with Seattle herb garden & blackberries
Date: 13 Mar 1995 19:12:16 GMT
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3k25eg$dp7@news.halcyon.com>
References: <3jl8a0$fck@gtenmo1.nmo.gtegsc.com>
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>   Tracy Warner <twarner@nmo.gtegsc.com> writes:
>  I am wondering if anyone out there can give me some hints/suggestions
>  about what kind of herbs to plant in the Washngton State area,
>  specifically in Seattle.

You should be able to grow most of the commonly used culinary
herbs in Seattle.  I currently grow rosemary, bay, lavender, parsley,
tarragon, chves, coriander, several varieties of basil and thyme, borage,
lovage, sage, chervil and pineapple mint.

>  My garden gets a lot of sun and the soil is claylike and fertile.

You may find that the typical Seattle clay requires some deep digging
and incorporation of compost plus some coarse sand to improve its
drainage.  Most of the popular herbs will not tolerate wet feet, and are
much more likely to drown during our winters than freeze!

  
_____________________________________________________________________

S. Andrew Schulman                             Voice: (206)545-1117                        
Springwood Associates, Inc.                      FAX: (206)545-1107     
Seattle, WA                                       
cirsium@halcyon.com                       All the usual disclaimers.      
______________________________________________________________________



From claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:38 EST 1995
Article: 58408 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap!claudir
From: claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu (White Horse)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: The course we all must take?
Date: 13 Mar 95 18:56:08 GMT
Organization: Clemson University
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <claudir.795120968@hubcap>
References: <3jsuug$a6a@baja.pacificrim.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap.clemson.edu
Status: O
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Linda Copes writes:

>THE COURSE WE MUST TAKE? 

>Recently, a group of people of mixed ages, occupations and nationalities participated in a free Project NatureConnect training course via email.  


Hello,

I have participated in this course and the project.  I can share my
experiences with you.  There are also some articles.  Feel free to
contact me.

Cheers,
Claudia
claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu
.



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:40 EST 1995
Article: 58409 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: When to put down sod?
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.130949.40139@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 13:09:49 -0600
References: <kalmloff.10.001C5219@sky.net>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 19
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <kalmloff.10.001C5219@sky.net>, kalmloff@sky.net (Kevin Almloff) writes:
> I have a 12' x 20' mud patch in my yard that I want to sod.  Can I put down 
> the sod now, or do I need to wait for the grass to start growing again.  I'm 
> in zone 7 (Kansas City).
> 

Is this a mud patch because it was previously a garden bed, or some
other disturbed area, or is it a mudpatch because it is the area
of the yard that all the melt water collects in?  If the second
is true, you'll need to correct the drainage to that patch 
(french drains or dry wells or drainage tile) before you sod,
or you'll just be doing it again next year.

I'd wait until about the time that the grass is greening up
before I sodded... I'd like to see the roots establish quickly,
and with as little stress as possible.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From ssanders@umich.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:41 EST 1995
Article: 58410 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!usenet
From: Susan Sanders <ssanders@umich.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Roto Gro plant stand
Date: 13 Mar 1995 19:49:44 GMT
Organization: The University of Michigan
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k27ko$34q@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
References: <3k1vu4$5bn@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
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X-Status: 

In article <3k1vu4$5bn@dsk92.itg.ti.com> Richard Campbell,
richc@phantom.pac.sc.ti.com writes:
>   So does anyone have: A Roto Gro unit?  Know anyone

I've seen pictures of it and been intrigued by it.  One of the things
I've thought about is whether the plants would get damaged as they
rotate, not by being jiggled by it, but by getting leaves stuck in the
mechanism, whether it allows enough vertical space between shelves, and
whether it would actually look nice or silly.  I also think it would
extend pretty far into the room and would suggest you actually measure
the spot where you would put it and try to imagine how it would look with
a large furniture unit sitting there, blocking your window (actually, I
hadn't even noticed that it had lights built in; I thought the idea was
to make the most use of a window).
						                                 -Sue Sanders


From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:42 EST 1995
Article: 58411 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Paw Paw tree???
Date: 13 Mar 1995 19:59:29 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 27
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Gordon Croft <Gordon_Croft@Mindlink.bc.ca> wrote:
>
> Anyone know anything about the Paw Paw tree?
> 
> It is suppose to grow on the west coast of Canada (where we live) but
> I know nothing of the quality of the fruit.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Gord
> 
I'm also trying to grow the paw-paw (Asimina triloba) here in Wisconsin.
The fruit is a US native plant related to the tropical custard apple, whose
taste is indescribably good.  It's my understanding that the fruit in
the wild can be quite variable in quality, so it's better to buy from
a commercial source and within the last few years, many named varieties have
become available. One thing to beware of is that they are difficult to
transplant because of the strong tap root, so buy your plants small and
be careful.  Mine are about 3 years old, about 2-3 feet tall and survived
-20F last winter - no blooms yet.  Two varieties are suggested for proper pollination.
I have not heard anything about the symbiotic fungus mentioned in
another reply.  Good luck.
Don Martinson				
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu

"Existing order thrives upon ignoranceand lies.  
Objective truth and individual reason are feared above all." 



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:43 EST 1995
Article: 58412 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: HELP WITH WHITE FLYS I THINK
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.132030.40140@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 13:20:30 -0600
References: <USER.4.0271C10D@interaccess.com>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 36
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In article <USER.4.0271C10D@interaccess.com>, USER@interaccess.com (B.LORCH) writes:
> Well for the fourth year now ive started my hot pepper seeds in the basement 
> under lites this is the first time ive had problems. i believe i hwve an 
> infestation of white flys? the plants have small white nodules stuck to them. 
> and the keep getting more ive tried "SAFER SOAP" with a little success but the 
> things just multply.i tried some flowering kail & cabbich but they died off 
> also. my leeks are doing great. what do i have to do to stop this and what 
> kind of critters are these?? also i keep orchards in this aera and they are 
> doing great.  Ideas? help!! ill be back next thir nite so please em me thanks 
> BILL

Whiteflies are small critters, about gnat-size, that swirl out of
the vegetation when you brush an infested plant.  Sound right?

Their life cycle is about 20 days, with eggs laid on the undersides
of leaves, typically, and hatching to scale-like larvae in a couple of
days.  These molt to a pupa in the underside of the leaf again, and 
finally hatch to the moth-like adults (which are about 1 mm long).

Yellow sticky traps to catch the adults are the easy way out, but
since you seem to have a major infestation, use the sticky traps
+ a weekly spray of alcohol, or soap (or a broad-spectrum pesticide
with "quick knockdown" like pyrethrins or rotenone).  Pay
particular attention to getting the spray on the underside of the
leaves.  (If the plants have a good enough rootsystem that you can
upend the pots, you can turn them upside down and dunk the leaves
and stems in soapy water).

PS: raise the humidity level:  I usually see the infestations
decrease in severity as the humidity levels rise.

Keep at it.  Whiteflies don't go away of their own accord on
indoor plants.  Sigh.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:44 EST 1995
Article: 58413 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Topiary
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.132702.40143@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 13:27:02 -0600
References: <3jtql1$b5h@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 24
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In article <3jtql1$b5h@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, Joe Szurek <szurek@vms.cis.pitt.edu> writes:
> Can anyone recommend any good books or other sources on topiary?
> I'm looking specifically for info on how to create a "sculpture" by
> building a wire frame, but I need some good advice on what to fill
> it with, what kind of plants to use, how to water (or build in a 
> watering system), etc.

The "topiary" I see today is usually a mesh frame mounted on a post,
and filled with growing medium and sphagnum moss, much like lining
a wire basket for hanging baskets.  Something like _Ficus pumila_,
creeping fig, is planted on the spagnum, and trimmed with scissors
if it gets too out of bounds.

The topiary I'm more familiar with involves many years of training
and selective pruning of a shrub or tree to produce a living 
sculpture.  It's pretty gardener-intensive....  ;-)

I believe Longwood Gardens has an extensive topiary area, but
I've not been there: I've only seen slides from a friend's internship
there.  There was a rather dramatic spirally-pruned Chamaecyparis (?)
that I recall.

Kay Klier   klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:46 EST 1995
Article: 58414 of rec.gardens
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From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Paw Paw 
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.133603.40144@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 13:36:02 -0600
References: <3jverm$phj@deep.rsoft.bc.ca> <3jvhr7$fs2@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 28
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In article <3jvhr7$fs2@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, t12dl7h@ix.netcom.com (Timothy Hostetler) writes:
> In <3jverm$phj@deep.rsoft.bc.ca> Gordon Croft 
> <Gordon_Croft@Mindlink.bc.ca> writes: 
> 
>>
>>Anyone know anything about the Paw Paw tree?
>>
>>It is suppose to grow on the west coast of Canada (where we live) but
>>I know nothing of the quality of the fruit.
> 
> Grows wild in Ohio.  Quite popular some years ago with the Indians.  
> It's got big leaves.  Grows in shaded areas...under the canopy so to 
> speak...in woods around here.  I've never eaten the fruit but the 
> munchkins in the woods (sqirrels, deer, etc) supposedly do.  Of course, 
> the "wildlife" around here will eat a Big Mac if you give it to them.

A good pawpaw is a wonderfully good fruit.  Almost better than any other
fruits I've eaten!  _Asimina triloba_ is the scientific name, and
it's not very common in commerce (it's a fruit that just does not
ship will).  However, about a year or so ago, I listened to an
interview with a fellow who was breeding pawpaws for flavor and
quality.  Wish I could remember his name.  You might try getting
in touch with the folks at Seed Saver's Exchange in Decorah, IA, and
see if they've met him.  (SSE is "branching out" a bit, to include
some fruits).

Kay Klier   klier@cobra.uni.edu



From jsalga01@troy.eng.eds.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:47 EST 1995
Article: 58415 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!newshub.gmr.com!troy.eng.eds.com!troy.eng.eds.com!not-for-mail
From: jsalga01@troy.eng.eds.com (John Salgado)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Help! Vole Damage
Date: 13 Mar 1995 14:35:56 -0500
Organization: EDS Corporation
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The snow has finally melted from my yard in Southeastern Michigan and I
have noticed long, meandering trails gouged into my lawn.  According to
the nursery, these trails are caused by voles. They said I can set 
traps, but is there a better way to get rid of these pests and 2) 
prevent them from chewing up my turf next winter.

My apologies if this topic has been previously discussed. If it has been,
please email the response. Thank You.

John


From sheiler@gte.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:49 EST 1995
Article: 58416 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!ceylon!sheiler.gte.com!user
From: sheiler@gte.com (Sandra Heiler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: help--  damping off
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:19:39 -0500
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Help!! I failed to *prevent* mold on my seedlings and now I need to stop
it.  I finally managed to get 2 particularly hard-to-sprout seed types to
germinate -- helleborus and Japanese iris -- and I have what looks like 2
quite different types of mold growing on the sprouts and all around the
seed starting mix (in 1 case) or on the Jiffy 7s (in the other case).  Some
have 1/8" white fur and some have long (1") webby things growing all over
the place.  Can I save these seedlings?  They've barely sprouted, e.g.,
1/4".  Would I kill them if I sprayed with Clorox in water?  How about
baking soda? I've taken the plastic off the tops of my seed trays, but I
fear that isn't enough.  They're growing in a room that stays about 60F.
Thanks in advance.
Sandy


From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:50 EST 1995
Article: 58417 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: witch hazel bloom time - update
Date: 13 Mar 1995 20:05:32 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3k28ic$m4u@post.its.mcw.edu>
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keziak@aol.com (Kezia K) wrote:
>
> Hi all --
> 
> A while ago I asked when witch hazel bloomed...

The native witch hazel, Hamamellis virginica, blooms in the fall.
The others, H. japonia and H. intermedia. bloom in the spring.  In 
fact, my H. intermedia "Arnold Promise" was in full bloom yesterday 
here in Milwaukee.
Don Martinson				
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu

"Existing order thrives upon ignorance and lies.  
Objective truth and individual reason are feared above all." 




From rogerv@sco.COM Thu Mar 16 00:39:51 EST 1995
Article: 58418 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
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From: rogerv@sco.COM ()
Subject: Re: Septic Helpers
Organization: SCO, Inc.
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 19:32:20 GMT
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.193220.1742@sco.com>
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>> This maybe a bit off this thread but if the problem is keeping
>> the system active would it be a good thing to add oxygen to the
>> system via some form of an air pump.  I see how the water will
>> bring oxygen into the system which is good on one hand but adds
>> to the saturation problem...why not simply add the oxygen supply
>> via a pipe/pump much like a fish tank?  Any thoughts?

>Actually, these are anarobic bacteria which means they prefer
>no oxygen as I understand it. O2 would kill them.

While the bacteria in a septic tank are anaerobic, they are much
slower at breaking down the waste than aerobic bacteria would be.
In fact, one thing is done to improve septic systems for difficult
locations is to bubble air through septic tank.  This helps to get
aerobic bacteria going that can then get more waste digestion done
faster.  So the answer is, yes it works, but it is one more 
mechanical device to go wrong, or to lose power when the utility
power fails.

-Roger


From cmay@Direct.CA Thu Mar 16 00:39:53 EST 1995
Article: 58419 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!scipio.cyberstore.ca!news.Direct.CA!usenet
From: cmay@Direct.CA (Colleenmay)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: hollyhock eaters
Date: 13 Mar 1995 20:11:47 GMT
Organization: Internet Direct Inc.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3k28u3$1n9@fun.Direct.CA>
References: <3k1lji$78h@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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In article <3k1lji$78h@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, tigibson@aol.com (TIGIBSON) says:
>
>i had beautiful pink hollyhock blooms last year. and then something ate my
>leaves, leaving only the veins!
>i'm an organic gardener and i need suggestions for how to deal with this
>year.
>any ideas?
>
>tigibson
Oh yes,yes,yes...You are one step ahead of me.  If you receive any
information re the culprit please let me know.  I love hollyhocks
and have tried growing them 3 years in a row.  I don't even get
blooms before something eats the leaves exactly as you described.

If you would be so kind :*)  please tell me how, where, and when 
you plant.  Do you start with seedlings or seeds?  Sun or
shade...etc.

Thank you and good luck.  
Colleen 



From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:54 EST 1995
Article: 58420 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Wayside Gardens
Date: 13 Mar 1995 20:16:53 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <3k297l$m4u@post.its.mcw.edu>
References: <1995Mar13.154353.11366@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil>
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welshg@rl.af.mil (Glenn T. Welsh) wrote:
>
> Prices to high! Quality too low. That's my experience. But they have great 
> pictures to help you through the winter! 
> 
> Glenn 
> 
>I've been ordering from Wayside for over 10 years now and have almost
always found their quality to be excellent.  Any problems that I encountered
(and there were a few), they corrected and gave a refund/replacement
with no questions asked.  Yes, they are pricey, but you generally get
what you pay for. "Good plants are not cheap and cheap plants are not
good."  However, it does pay to shop around.  Wayside is an intermediate
dealer for many of the plants that they offer and if you shop at some
of the smaller, more specialized plantsmen, you can save quite a bit.
Example, a friend wanted a weeping pussywillow, Salix capreolata cv.
pendula.  Wayside wanted over $100 for it, but I found it offered by
Arborvillage Farm Nursery (Holt, MO) for $35.00.
Don Martinson				
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu

"Existing order thrives upon ignorance and lies.  
Objective truth and individual reason are feared above all." 
 



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:55 EST 1995
Article: 58421 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Is "Roundup" Good for Ind. Weeds? (Was: Lawn)
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.134657.40146@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 13:46:57 -0600
References: <3jkhku$d5t@werner.cs.mtu.edu> <3jkvlf$5u8@news.iastate.edu> <1995Mar9.211518.15011@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 45
Status: O
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In article <1995Mar9.211518.15011@Princeton.EDU>, mms@tucson.princeton.edu (Margaret M. Steinbugler) writes:
> Someone (sorry, I lost the name) wrote:
>>
>>I have used Round Up and have never had a problem with it.  It becomes  
>>inactive when it comes into contact with soil and leaves no residue.  It  
>>can, however, kill any plant that it comes in contact with and should  
>>never be used around streams and ponds.  I am not sure how long the  
>>chemical stays active on the leaves after application.
>>
There is a formulation of glyphosate designed for use on stream
and lake margins, etc.  I think Pondmaster is the name, but DO check
the label and whether or not special permits are needed before using
glyphosate near bodies of water.  The difference is not in the
glyphosate, but in the "inert ingredients".


>>In general its a fairly safe chemical.
>>sdb
> 
> Question:  Is Roundup good as a spot week killer, say, for spraying
> dandelions as they come up in the lawn?  Would it kill too much
> of the surrounding grass?  Is there a better way to get rid of
> dandelions than pulling (which keeps me from weeding the garden) (-: ?

If you apply it strictly to the dandelion foliage (a "stamp licker"
is a good way to do this), it will get the dandelions without
nailing the adjacent grass.  Roundup is non-selective, and will
essentially kill any green plant, given sufficient dosages and repetitions.
Glyphosate is the only herbicide that I consider safe enough to use;
I will NOT use 2,4-D, trimec, and other commonly available "home
weed killers".

Personally, I find that a session digging dandelions EXCELLENT therapy
for dealing with faculty meetings, etc...  And it seems to work
better for me than weeding the veggies!  BTW, one of the best
dandelion diggers I know of is a good strong slot screwdriver...

Another advantage of digging dandelions is that if the plant is
quite large, it may have shaded out the grass underneath it.  It's
quite easy to put a pinch of grass seed in the newly denuded area
as you're digging.


Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:57 EST 1995
Article: 58422 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Germination Problems
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.134916.40147@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 13:49:16 -0600
References: <pmichel.23.003D9FB4@teleport.com> <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3jtnae$ast@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <1735FF0C3S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
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In article <1735FF0C3S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>, LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU writes:
> This is my first real effort.  All went well, seeds selected, mix
> just right, paper pots crafted and heat source to keep all warm
> - seeds planted and notes made.  Everything moist and enclosed in
> plactic.  Only 3 days later I noticed some white fungal growth.
> Off came the plastic and within 2 days most of the white stuff
> is gone.  I've kept the medium moist.  A number of herbs have
> sprouted and otherwise all looks well.

Sounds good so far!  Keep the air circulating (use a fan if the
air is really "dead" in the area, and keep the humidity up with
pans of water, a "cool mist steamer" or frequent misting.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From vcolvin@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:39:58 EST 1995
Article: 58423 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!not-for-mail
From: vcolvin@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Valerie Colvin)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Grapes, North Fla
Date: 13 Mar 1995 13:02:57 -0500
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
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We have recently purchased an older home with an established grape
arbor.  How do I maintain this feature of the garden.  I have seen
some garden keep a main stem along a main pole or main wire and the
other vines are cut out.  What do you fertilize with?  
When do you prune?  Thanks.
-- 
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
V. N. Colvin           "The pure and simple truth is 
Tallahassee, FL             never pure and rarely simple."
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +


From jenga44773@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:39:59 EST 1995
Article: 58424 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: jenga44773@aol.com (JEnga44773)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Tips & Ideas Needed
Date: 13 Mar 1995 15:24:35 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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 I am interested in garden/landscaping tips & ideas that anyone has found
particularly useful in their experience. These tips & ideas could be for
beginners or advanced gardeners. I am interested in creating a booklet and
publishing these tips & ideas.

Thank You for your interest

Julie Enga


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:01 EST 1995
Article: 58425 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Identifying fungus, wildflowers
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.135908.40149@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 13:59:08 -0600
References: <3jvsib$pq5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 33
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3jvsib$pq5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, azureus@aol.com (Azureus) writes:
> I went for a walk in my woods today, and I saw a type of fungus
> I've never seen before.  It was covering the forest floor, attatched to
> dead wood, and seemed to be flourishing, even though last week was
> very cold and snowy.  Each fungus was *bright* red on the inside, and
> a dusty pink on the out side.  It was vaugely cup-shaped, and very
> fleshy--it reminded me of red bell peppers.  Does this sound familiar
> to any fungus fanatics out there?  The land is located in Iowa, close to
> the Missouri river, zone 4 or 5, I can never figure out which one we're
> in.  My second question is, can anyone reccommend a good field guide for
> Iowa (or Midwest) wildflowers and other native plants?  

You're probably in zone 5... I'm in zone 4 up here in Waterloo.
I'll bet the fungi you saw were Sarcosyphe, scarlet cups, but
this is a wild guess from the distance.  What diameter (approximately)?

As for wildflower books:  well... the Peterson Wildflower guide
is probably the best "all purpose beginner's" book for Iowa, and I
highly recommend it.  You may also want to look at the books written
by Dean Roosa and Sylvan Runkel: there's one on common prairie plants,
and another on woodland plants.  There is a good series of 
publications from the Missouri Dept. of Conservation  that are
very nice for folks in the southern part of Iowa, and of course, there's
Pete vanderLinden and Don Farrar's book on native trees.  And don't
forget the book on fungi, written by Don___, Lois Tiffany, and George
Knaphus, with wonderful color pictures.  Sorry I'm blanking on exact
titles, but much of my library is packed at the moment.  The trees
and fungi books are available from Iowa State University Press, Ames,
Ia and the Missouri books (the ferns and orchids books are *very
nice*) are available by writing the Missouri DOC in Jefferson City, MO.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From wayne@math.psu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:02 EST 1995
Article: 58426 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!poincare.math.psu.edu!wayne
From: wayne@math.psu.edu (Gene Wayne)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Paw Paw tree???
Date: 13 Mar 1995 20:42:26 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Penn State University
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3k2ani$cmb@soc2.pop.psu.edu>
References: <3jverm$phj@deep.rsoft.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.math.psu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

Gordon Croft (Gordon_Croft@Mindlink.bc.ca) wrote:
: Anyone know anything about the Paw Paw tree?

: It is suppose to grow on the west coast of Canada (where we live) but
: I know nothing of the quality of the fruit.

: Thanks in advance,
: Gord

Just a folow-on to the other replies.  If you're interested in
trying to grow them, I believe that they are available from
Burpees.

--
Gene Wayne                           (814)-865-7527
Dept. of Math., Penn State Univ.     wayne@math.psu.edu


From tulcyn@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:03 EST 1995
Article: 58427 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: tulcyn@aol.com (TulCyn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: What about light bulbs?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 15:36:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 4
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3k2ad0$ano@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: tulcyn@aol.com (TulCyn)
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Status: O
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I have been using a 75 watt spectrum light bulb with a clamp on lamp with
an adjustable arm for my seedlings.  With the heat I can not put the light
to close to my little babies.  Can using light bulbs be as effective as
floresent tubes?


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:04 EST 1995
Article: 58428 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Natural repellants for cats
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.140855.40151@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 14:08:55 -0600
References: <D579r8.J4I@freenet.carleton.ca> <3k0b6a$j8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3k0ct6$30t@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 28
Status: O
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In article <3k0ct6$30t@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>, cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens) writes:
> He should mind the cats, strays are rarely vaccinated for rabies.
> 
> I have always had success with open bottles of white vinegar.
> Cats hate the smell.  He might also want to consider live-
> trapping them for turning over the ASPCA.
> 
> Chris Owens
> 
> 
>>I have a friend with a stray cat problem in his neighborhood. 
>>(There are dozens.) He doesn't mind the cats but their urine seems
>>to kill some of his plants.  Are there any natural ways to discourage
>>the cats from entering his garden?

The most successful approach is to capture the strays, euthanize
those found to be carrying viruses like FeLV or FIV, neuter
and vaccinate the healthy ones and *return them to their
former territory*.   Cats are highly territorial, and when there
is a large surrounding feral population, they keep "stranger cats"
out of their area.  (Otherwise, you get new strays moving in).
Vaccinations keep the populations reasonably healthy, and 
neutering prevents further population growth.  This approach is
being used successfully to manage feral populations in several
areas.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:05 EST 1995
Article: 58429 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Tree tomatoes
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.141204.40152@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 14:12:03 -0600
References: <D579r8.J4I@freenet.carleton.ca> <3k0b6a$j8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3k0d4f$31r@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 23
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In article <3k0d4f$31r@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>, cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens) writes:
Nope.  Different genus.  _Cyphomandra betacea_.  Rarely blooms, 
much less fruits, outside of the subtropics.  Makes a smallish
tree, though, that is frost-tender.  I'm not fond of the flavor
of the fruit I've sampled, either.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu


> Sounds like hype to me.  Never heard of a tree that produced
> tomatoes, only vines.  (Maybe they have a variety that can
> be trained to a tree-like habit?)
> 
> Chris Owens
> 
>>I saw an advertisment for tree tomatoes.  The pictures looked like cut
>>tomatoes.  The hype said the were tomatoes and tasted great.  The price
>>was reasonable.  Somehow, I get the feeling that they are trying to sucker
>>me.
>>
>>What can anyone tell me about tree tomatoes?
>>
>>William Buchman 


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:07 EST 1995
Article: 58430 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Sweetheart Ivy Reversion
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.141513.40153@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 14:15:13 -0600
References: <2252529629.1042885@lamg.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 19
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <2252529629.1042885@lamg.com>, KTyrrell@lamg.com (Kerin Tyrrell) writes:
> Anybody know why sweetheart ivy would 'revert' and send of shoots  with
> traditional ivy-type leaves?
> 
> Bought some sweetheart ivy last fall and combined it with ivy geraniums for
> some large pots to put on the front porch. Left the pots out in the back yard
> until they looked showy and pretty much ignored them lately with all the rain
> we've been getting out in So. Calif. lately. Went out last week and noticed
> shoots with the traditional lobed leaves. For info: I'm in zone 10 so really
> no frost, filtered sun, they didn't get lots of fertilizer, and the pots are
> well drained so I don't think all this rain is the problem.
> 
> Sooooo, do they just do this or can I fix it by doing/not doing something?

This is a somatic mutation, and you can expect to see it again.  The 
"cure" is to prune out all affected branches.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:08 EST 1995
Article: 58431 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Vegetable Plants From Seeds - NOT!
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.142027.40156@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 14:20:27 -0600
References: <D58o6q.8uz@sunsrvr6.cci.com> <QDTTOHU.95Mar13105600@edsvhs2.ericsson.se> <QDTTOHU.95Mar13112908@edsvhs2.ericsson.se>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 23
Status: O
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In article <QDTTOHU.95Mar13112908@edsvhs2.ericsson.se>, qdttohu@edsvhs2.ericsson.se (Tomas Hybner) writes:
> 
> About using top-soil from your garden. Sterilize it first! You can do that by steaming
> the soil. Fill the bottom of a cooking-pot with small clean rocks up to about two
> inches, pour water over it so that the whaterlevel does not rise entirely above the
> rocks and then put the soil in (don't stir!). When the water simmers/boils the steam
> will find it's way through the soil and heat it to approximately the boiling point
> of water. This will kill almost everything in the soil that you don't want but it
> will preserve the things that you do want. Don't let it get too hot!
> When the soil is steaming you have hopefully succeeded in sterilizing the soil.
> Don't use the lowest layer of soil and don't blame me for any unwanted effects this has
> to whatever pot you were using!

Steamed soil (or baked soil) stinks up the house pretty badly in the
process (unless you're like me and LIKE the smell).  Put the steamed
soil in covered cans (a dinner plate over the can will do), and let it
set for several days before you use it.  The steaming or baking process
often produces some unwanted products of decomposition that can slow
down or stop plant growth.  So far, I believe, these products haven't
been well characterised.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From fpm@u.washington.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:09 EST 1995
Article: 58432 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!nntp.cac.washington.edu!fpm
From: fpm@u.washington.edu (Frank Miles)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: low pH soil ... resistant to lime?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 20:53:38 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 23
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NNTP-Posting-Host: nntp2.u.washington.edu
Status: O
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We have tested our soil for about 5 years now (Sudbury kit), only to
find a persistent low pH: initially about 4.5, it has crept up to 
under 5.5.  This is despite adding over 100 lb of dolomitic lime each
year to our 800 ft^2 of garden soil (this would seem to be a pretty
high concentration).

What might be the problem?
	- the lime might be leached out in each winter's rain (we're
			in Seattle).
	- lime doesn't change pH as well as you might think (tell me
			more).
	- the Sudbury kit is inaccurate
	- there's something in the soil that persists in decreasing the
			ph.  (perhaps our compost pile?  the breakdown
			of the sod pile, what used to be the top layer
			of our garden plot?)

Has anyone had a similar experience?  We know that most garden plants
really don't like this low a pH (hard for the roots to absorb the right
things when there's such an exchange occurring just due to pH).

TIA...			-frank



From kabowers@whidbey.net Thu Mar 16 00:40:11 EST 1995
Article: 58433 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!nwnexus!islander.whidbey.net!asn6.whidbey.net!user
From: kabowers@whidbey.net
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Whidbey Is WA Celebration
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 11:25:56 +0100
Organization: The Whidbey Connection
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <kabowers-1303951125560001@asn6.whidbey.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: asn6.whidbey.net
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Meerkerk Rhododendron Gardens, on beautiful Whidbey Island, invites you to
our Spring Opening Celebration Saturday March 18th 9am-4pm.

Enjoy early rhododendrons, spring bulb displays,flowering ornamental trees
and guided garden tours in the 53 acre Meerkerk Garden overlooking the
Saratoga Straits of Puget Sound.

A special sale of superior rhododendrons will be offered, benefiting the
garden restoration and Wooland Preserve efforts. Rhody experts will be
available to answer your gardening questions.

Meerkerk Gardens, a non profit trust, is located 2 miles south of
Greenbank on Whidbey Island. From Seattle take the Mukilteo ferry to
Clinton travel 20 miles noth to Resort Rd, turn right on Resort Rd and
continue 1/2 mile to Meerkerk Ln turn left on Meerkerk Ln and follow the
signs to visitor parking.

To request more information or to schedule group tours during the spring season:

 call the garden office at 360-678-1912
 email kabowers@whidbey.net (Meerkek info as subject)
 Visit the Meerkerk Gardens WWW site at
http://islander.whidbey.net/~kabowers/Meerkerk.html

Have a great Spring!!!!!


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:12 EST 1995
Article: 58434 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Natural repellants for cats
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.142822.40158@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 14:28:22 -0600
References: <xs6ZWgV.jsliney@delphi.com> <9503131204.AA29125@rpmac>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 11
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <9503131204.AA29125@rpmac>, russell_parrish@larc.nasa.gov (Russell V. Parrish) writes:
> I remember reading in rec.gardens a similiar thread that said the herb rue 
> was a natural cat repellant.

It's cuz cats are smarter than humans...  ;-)  Rue (_Ruta graveolens_)
is a pretty darn good sensitizer.  Once you're sensitized, the dermatitis
is more dramatic than poison ivy dermatitis, I hear, and you often
cross-react with other members of the Rutaceae, like citrus fruits.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:13 EST 1995
Article: 58435 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!NewsWatcher!user
From: kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kris Benarcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Crab Grass -- how to grow??
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 13 Mar 1995 21:12:34 GMT
Organization: Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <kbenarc1-130395160519@130.58.39.51>
References: <3k06ms$sfa@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.58.39.51
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Status: O
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In article <3k06ms$sfa@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, nadiai@aol.com (NadiaI)
wrote:

> I would like to grow crab grass for a high traffic/dog area.  Any ideas
> how
> I could go about this?

I would recommend trying a turf-type tall fescue instead of crab grass. 
Turf-type tall fescues stand up to heavy traffic, can be mowed higher and
less frequently than bluegrass and other lawn grasses, require a lot less
fertilizer and are perennial.  Crabgrass is an annual, so you would have to
reseed every year.  Tall fescues are naturally clump-forming grasses, but
the turf-types have been bred to spread and form a uniform lawn.  We use
them here at the Arboretum which is a college campus, too, with great
results.  Turf-type tall fescues are cool season grasses, so they won't do
well in the deep South ( I can't tell where you are from your posting), but
do well in most other areas of the U.S. They are becoming more popular, so
you shouldn't have problems locating seed.  If you need tips for getting
turf started, give me a yell--

Happy gardening--
Kris Benarcik
The Scott Arboretum


From jshumate@es.atl.sita.int Thu Mar 16 00:40:14 EST 1995
Article: 58436 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nntp.sita.int!jshumate
From: jshumate@es.atl.sita.int (Jason Shumate)
Subject: Books on Passionflowers?
Message-ID: <D5EB3F.I20@sunshine.ps.atl.sita.int>
Sender: jshumate@sunshine.ps.atl.sita.int (Jason Shumate)
Organization: SITA
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 20:18:49 GMT
Lines: 14
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Does anyone know of any good books about passionflowers (Passiflora species)? 
I am not looking for "how to grow guides" as I have several good books on
growing tropical fruits that contain such information, like the Ortho book 
_All About Growing Citrus And Subtropical Fruit_.  I am really more interested
in something that specifically talks about passionflowers, perhaps with 
descriptions and pictures of the many species.  If you know of something
that is available in the United States, that would be most helpful, but I
would be interested in anything on the subject.  Thanks for any help you 
can give.
-- 
CUL8R,                             |  Lord Arthur: "Are all men from the future
Jason Shumate                      |     loud-mouthed braggarts?"
System Administrator type guy      |  Ash: "Nope.  Just me, baby.  Just me."
jshumate@es.atl.sita.int           |  - Army Of Darkness


From BOSSLD2@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:15 EST 1995
Article: 58437 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!maze.dpo.uab.edu!uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!BOSSLD2
From: BOSSLD2@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu (Marsha Borden)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Yellow Leaves on Impatients
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 15:10:29 CST
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <17360D566S86.BOSSLD2@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu
Status: O
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Hi, I'm Marsha and this is my first post to the group.  On the subject
of yellow leaves on impatiens, I have a slightly different question.
Last summer I had baskets on impatiens on my front porch, where they got
a couple hours of diffused morning sun.  They all started turing yellow,
the leaves got really small, and the stems were gnarled.  I didn't have
a clue as to what to do.  I water when needed, fertilize lightly monthly,
don't use any fungicide or insect control.  Anybody have a clue as to
what I did wrong.  Any help would be appreciated, because I would like to
try again this year.  Oh, I put three plants per basket and used a really
good potting medium.  I used the Elfin variety of impatien.  Thanks.


From ssanders@umich.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:16 EST 1995
Article: 58438 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!usenet
From: Susan Sanders <ssanders@umich.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Wayside Gardens
Date: 13 Mar 1995 21:07:30 GMT
Organization: The University of Michigan
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k2c6i$46b@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
References: <1995Mar13.154353.11366@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.211.54.249
X-Newsreader: Nuntius Version 1.2
X-XXDate: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:09:28 GMT
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <1995Mar13.154353.11366@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil> Glenn T. Welsh,
welshg@rl.af.mil writes:
>Prices to high! Quality too low. That's my experience. But they have
great 
>pictures to help you through the winter! 

I agree.  I buy from them what I can't get from another source.  My
experience has been that their woody plants are good quality, and the
herbaceous stuff is chancier.  But they do honor the guarantee when
things go wrong.  Of course, so do a lot of much cheaper places.  But the
pictures--I'll bet their catalog has gotten more people entrapped into
gardening than any other single thing.
														                                       -Sue Sanders


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:17 EST 1995
Article: 58439 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Variegated plants from seed?
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.150106.40162@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 15:01:05 -0600
References: <3k23sn$m4u@post.its.mcw.edu>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 13
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3k23sn$m4u@post.its.mcw.edu>, Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu> writes:
> Does anyone out there have any expertise regarding sexual propagation
> of plants with variegated foliage. Do (all, some, none, any) come true
> from seed?  Any help appreciated.  Post reply or e-mail.

Some do, some don't and most seedlings vary from their parents.  Plants
with variegated foliage like Coleus usually carry variegation in the
succeeding generations, while many other plants (esp. the ones with
white-striped leaves, which are usually chimeric) don't come true
from seed.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:18 EST 1995
Article: 58440 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Landscape Construction Material
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.150610.40163@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 15:06:09 -0600
References: <soffiler.173.00128B2B@stealth.mc.ti.com> <3jsebh$3kd@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 20
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3jsebh$3kd@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, sanny@aol.com (Sanny) writes:
> <<I discovered a very interesting product.  
> <<Can't remember the trade name, but it is basically *plastic wood*. 
> <<100% post-consumer recycled soda bottles, formed into log-like shapes
> <<about 4" 
> 
> Organic Gardening mag has it in this months issue in the article on raised
> bed materials.  OBEX is the brand name.  About $90 for a 4x4 kit.  They
> like it and had a display at GardenFest last year.  Also makes compost
> bins.

There are several companies that are producing "plastic lumber".  Since
it is extremely heavy stuff, it makes sense to purchase from a local
supplier if at all possible.  Talk to your local recycling agency
or state solid waste disposal authority to see if you can locate a 
similar product near you.  Around here, $90 for 16 or 32 linear feet of
plastic 2x4 would be a little steep!

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From simonsfam@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:19 EST 1995
Article: 58441 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: simonsfam@aol.com (Simons Fam)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: squash bugs
Date: 13 Mar 1995 16:02:08 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 7
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3k2bsg$b40@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: simonsfam@aol.com (Simons Fam)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Does anybody know of a good organic method of getting rid of squash bugs
besides hand picking? They totally wiped out my pumpkins and zucchini last
year.  I tried using the usual Safer products on them in addition to hand
picking but I couldn't keep up with them.

Thanks,
Kay


From garden@ahs.org Thu Mar 16 00:40:20 EST 1995
Article: 58442 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.cais.com!news
From: TJ Huck <garden@ahs.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Paw Paw tree???
Date: 13 Mar 1995 21:24:35 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3k2d6j$7aj@news.cais.com>
References: <3jverm$phj@deep.rsoft.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: garden.cais.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Gordon Croft <Gordon_Croft@Mindlink.bc.ca> wrote:
>
> Anyone know anything about the Paw Paw tree?
> 
> It is suppose to grow on the west coast of Canada (where we live) but
> I know nothing of the quality of the fruit.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Gord
> 

Check out the February 1995 of American Horticulturist magazine. 
We did a feature article on the Pawpaw tree. It's a beautiful tree, and
the fruit is delicious.

You might also want to contact The PawPaw Foundation at 
P.O. Box 23467, Washington, DC 20026 (202/484-1121). Membership is
$15 annually.

Our assistant editor says Pawpaws should grow well in parts of 
the Pacific Northwest, as long as it's not too hot or too dry.

Good luck!

Terri J. Huck, American Horticultural Society



From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:21 EST 1995
Article: 58443 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Suggestions for vine?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 21:27:04 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <3k2db8$m4u@post.its.mcw.edu>
References: <277@ckd.uucp>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac7.crc.mcw.edu
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jack@ckd.uucp (jack paul) wrote:
>
> This is my first post!  I've been enjoying your group for several
> months now.  Thanks to all for the wealth of information.
> 
> I have an old concrete (at least thats what it looks like)
> springhouse that I would like to cover with a vine.  
> Jack Paul
> Hereford, Pa. USA
> jack%ckd@kd3bj.ampr.orgt

I think you'll have problems with trumpet vine since they really do
best in full sun.  However, some other suggestions:

Any of various vine honeysuckle (except, perhaps, Lonicera japonica)
     Lonicera  periclymenum (spelling?) - wonderful fragerance
     Lonicera semperveriens - no fragrance, but bright yellows/reds

Akebia quinquifolia - Five-leafed akebia - maroon flowers, unusual
pod-like fruit.

Ampelopsis brevipedunculata "Elegans" - inconspicuous flower, but 
interesting variegated leaf and blue porcelain like berries in fall,
hence the name Porcelain vine.
Don Martinson				
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu

"Existing order thrives upon ignorance and lies.  
Objective truth and individual reason are feared above all." 





From bebb@ferndown.ate.slb.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:22 EST 1995
Article: 58444 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!news.london.sinet.slb.com!mac_150.ferndown.ate.slb.com!user
From: bebb@ferndown.ate.slb.com (Malcolm Bebb)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Guinea Pig poo as fertilizer?
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 16:01:39 +0000
Organization: Schlumberger Technologies ATE
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <bebb-1303951601390001@mac_150.ferndown.ate.slb.com>
References: <3k0lbq$gro@potogold.rmii.com>
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In article <3k0lbq$gro@potogold.rmii.com>, Steve Zerbe <sazerb@rmii.com> wrote:

>    Someone earlier was discussing rabbit manure as compost.  My 
>  situation is that we have guinea pigs (5) that I would like to
>  move outdoors on warm days in my yard.  I have a 4x4 box with no
>  bottom and a piece of plywood that partially covers the top.  So
>  they are free to run around the box and eat grass during the day.
>  My question is this:  Is their manure going to be okay for the
>  grass in my yard?  They are being fed a pellet mixture of soybean
>  meal, alfalfa meal and various other incredients mixed with crushed
>  corn.  I also give them a _little_ lettuce from time to time.
>     I also intend to move the box a few inches every day so it won't
>  make permanent dents in what little lawn I have!  

You should definitely move the run - the guinea pigs will eat the grass
down to the roots if you don't. If you don't let the droppings build up in
any one area, you should be OK. Guinea pig grazing hasn't obviously harmed
my (what passes for a) lawn.

Malcolm      bebb@ferndown.ate.slb.com   (Usual disclaimers apply)
Tech Pubs    bebb@embetech.demon.co.uk


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:23 EST 1995
Article: 58445 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Help with VERMI-composting
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.152841.40164@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 15:28:41 -0600
References: <D5CDMJ.Iwv@freenet.carleton.ca>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 41
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In article <D5CDMJ.Iwv@freenet.carleton.ca>, ba600@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Mike Kenzie) writes:
> Well it's ben 3 months since the last fiasco when I tried to harvest the
> compost, I need some advise on how to get the compot out from the worms.
>  The last time I noticed a large number of eggs, and young worms in the
> compost so I put it aside to let them hatch and grow, now I have 2 containers.
> 
> How can I get the worms out of the compost?
> 
> How long does it take for the eggs to hatch?
> 
> Is there an easy way to get the uncomposted material out of the finished
> product?

I've not tried vermicomposting (the outdoor method works well for me!),
but I suspect that screening the compost will do most of what you want.
Get some hardware cloth and nail it to a wooden frame.  Suspend the
frame from above on chains or ropes, and add compost.  Shake well.  Use
what falls out and return the rest for further decomposition.

You probably have enough worm eggs etc. in the remains of your pile
to recolonize the worm box.  (Composting is sort of like making
sourdough bread... you always want to hang on to some starter for
the next batch!).  Lignified (woody, "leathery" materials) will
take longer to decompose than non-woody materials.

> 
> Can it be put back it with the worms for a second try?
> 
> Are there some things that even the worms won't eat?
> They seem to have trouble with the boston fern "roots" and some plant leaves.
> 
> Can the compost be used directly on my house plants?

Personally, I wouldn't.  Worms in the roots of houseplants usually cause
trouble.  It's different outside.. but the environment in a pot isn't
exactly natural.

Compost tea or steamed compost might be a better choice.


Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu


From mason@cg-atla.UUCP Thu Mar 16 00:40:25 EST 1995
Article: 58446 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!noc.near.net!ray.com!news.ray.com!news.ed.ray.com!swlnews.msd.ray.com!cg-atla!mason
From: mason@cg-atla.UUCP (Bob Mason)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: last frost date for Boston?
Message-ID: <10773@cg-atla.UUCP>
Date: 13 Mar 95 17:56:31 GMT
References: <anthoncb-2602950117170001@136.167.200.27> <annie-0103951307590001@slip-3-11.shore.net>
Reply-To: mason@cg-atla.UUCP (Bob Mason)
Organization: Agfa Compugraphic Division
Lines: 18
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In article <annie-0103951307590001@slip-3-11.shore.net> annie@shore.net (Shauna Rabinowitz) writes:
>In article <anthoncb-2602950117170001@136.167.200.27>,
>anthoncb@cleo.bc.edu (Cara Anthony) wrote:
>
>> I just moved to Boston and all my seed packets say things like "Start
>> indoors 3 weeks before last frost."  When is the accepted date for last
>> frost in this area?  Is this information usually available in an almanac

The general date for tender plants (tomatoes, peppers) is May 30.  If your
right on the coast, it may be possible to push it some.  If you can
cover your plantings, something you probably will want to do in Sept. 
anyway, you can start in early May.

Don't forget '78 with 8" of snow on May 8-9!  Sad to see those peas pushing
up through all that snow.

BTW, peas are planted by April 19.



From breland@mcc.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:26 EST 1995
Article: 58447 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!milano!news
From: breland@mcc.com (Mark A. Breland)
Subject: Re: Compost piles
Message-ID: <D5E87t.AFr@mcc.com>
Sender: news@mcc.com
Reply-To: breland@mcc.com
Organization: MCC
References: <Pine.A32.3.91.950313015125.53057A-100000@yu1.yu.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 19:16:41 GMT
Lines: 23
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In article <Pine.A32.3.91.950313015125.53057A-100000@yu1.yu.edu>, Jeff Stier <jstier@yu1.yu.edu> writes:
>My compost pile cooled off over the winter...plenty of 
>carbon material.......but now what.
>You mentioned yeast- how does that help?  Because its alive?
>I hear hops are good....
>What else can I use?  Produce/salad clippings? 
>What else is high in nitrogen and available now....
>I can't  wait for grass clippings!

Weeds, weeds, weeds...(if you got 'em yet)

They work great for me, high in nitro, high in moisture, lots of 'em, and
the heat will get high enough to kill the seeds.  Better yet, pick them
*before* they go to seed...

-- 
Mark A. Breland -- Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation (MCC)
Research Division
3500 West Balcones Center Drive                   | voice:    (512) 338-3509
Austin, Texas 78759-6509   USA              NB#51 | FAX:      (512) 338-3900




From dawn@pangea.Stanford.EDU Thu Mar 16 00:40:27 EST 1995
Article: 58448 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!hp-cv!hp-pcd!news1.boi.hp.com!hpax!hpscit.sc.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!canyon.sr.hp.com!col.hp.com!sony!nntp-sc.barrnet.net!tiptoe.fhda.edu!unix.sri.com!news.Stanford.EDU!morrow.stanford.edu!pangea.Stanford.EDU!dawn
From: dawn@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Dawn Burgess)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: indoor fluorescent lighting
Date: 13 Mar 1995 19:12:52 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k25fk$bbi@morrow.stanford.edu>
References: <D5C6oG.F7G@dorite.use.com> <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu> <3k1tne$5bn@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
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In article <3k1tne$5bn@dsk92.itg.ti.com> richc@phantom.pac.sc.ti.com (Richard Campbell) writes:
>
>In article <3jvf8k$8kl@morrow.stanford.edu>, dawn@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Dawn Burgess) writes:
>|> the lights only an inch or two from the leaves.  If your plants are 6" from
>|> the lights, they are getting only 1/3 as much light as they would if 
>|> they were 2" from the lights.  Fluorescent lights aren't hot, so don't
>|> be afraid to really get 'em close.
>|> 
>
>   I don't disagree with any of this except for the fact that plants at 6"
>from the lights get only 1/3 as much light as plants at 2".  They 
>actually get much less than 1/3, I believe that they would get 1/9 as
>much light.  Doubling the distance from the light source quarters the
>amount of light received.

True, if the lights were a point source.  I think they are closer 
to a line source, though, which I think should go as 1/r, not 
the inverse square.  I could be wrong, though, since someone else
mentioned the effect of the reflective hood.  But that should 
decrease the distance effect, not increase it.  Dang, what ever
happened to the spherical cows of classical mechanics?!  :)

Dawn


From nightjar@pavilion.co.uk Thu Mar 16 00:40:28 EST 1995
Article: 58449 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!news.pavilion.co.uk!usenet
From: nightjar@pavilion.co.uk (nightjar)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: clay soil + compost = adobe ???
Date: 13 Mar 1995 22:01:50 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <3k2fce$4ek@fitzherbert.pavilion.co.uk>
References: <D54w60.GKL@seas.ucla.edu>
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In article <D54w60.GKL@seas.ucla.edu>, brewster@zuma.icsl.ucla.edu (Anthony Brewster) says:
>
>I recently added 1 part compost/mulch to 8 parts low organic clay soil. A week
>after thoroughly mixing the soil + a little gypsum, 2-3 inches of rain fell
>and turned the soil into a thick paste which lost a lot of volume and is
>now drying into a hard adobe like mass. In a sense, the soil now seems
>more compacted than before the organic material was added and is going to
>need a lot of fluffing up to be suitable for planting.
>
>The question I have is did I not add enough compost(Nurseryman's brand, forest
>products), or are some materials better than others at loosening up clay soils?
>Also, does the loosening effect take time to happen, ie does the organic
>matter have to decompose some before it really has an effect? How many more
>parts of organic matter should be added, if any? BTW, I also turned over a
>cover crop of rapeseed, rye and hairy vetch, and added about 0.5 parts kitchen
>scraps.
>
>Thanks..Anthony
>
>
>

Adding organic matter is not always the answer. On poorly drained soils it actually
decreases fertility - turning the soil anaerobic and sour. The way to check drainage
is to dig a hole about 2 feet deep when the soil is moist. Fill the hole with water and
if most of it is still there next day you should think seriously about sub-soil drains.

If you have used un-composted organics, they will need to decompose before they
have the best effect. You will also need to add Nitrogen fertiliser while they are doing
so as they absorb Nitrogen while rotting. Well composted organic material, although 
dearer, has an immediate effect.

In the UK clay soils respond best to digging over in Autumn and letting the frost
get at them. I somehow doubt that is much use in L.A.

Unless you want to grow lime-hating plants, the next best thing is to put on lots
of lime. This causes the soil to flocculate, i.e. stick together in small clusters, rather
than large clods, so it becomes more manageable. Alginates, from seaweed can
have the same effect.

The ultimate solution for clay soil is to add an equal quantity of sharp sand and mix
well. Unfortunately, except for the smallest gardens, this is not often a practical
method. The ideal soil is about 50% sand, 25% silt, 20% clay and 5% organics.

Happy digging

Colin Bignell


From jacksonj@eon.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:29 EST 1995
Article: 58450 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!psinntp!corp!jacksonj
From: jacksonj@eon.com (Jacquelyn Jackson)
Subject: Help - White fuzzy bugs!
Message-ID: <jacksonj.795128060@corp>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 20:54:20 GMT
Organization: eon
Keywords: bugs plants
Lines: 33
Status: O
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Last year, I bought a condo with a solarium (technically, 
it is a greenhouse because it has single pane glass, roof, 
and side vents) so that I could have the garden I have 
always wanted and still stay in the city.

Last summer, I noticed small white fuzzy bugs on several of my 
tomato plants.  I tried dish soap, and then Safer Soap for garden
veggies with no success.  The bugs spread to every plant (basil,
rosemary, lavender, various flowering plants, bay, eucalyptus, 
schefalaras (sp?) pony tail palms, peppers, thyme, catnip, mint,
and more) except marjoram and chives. I lost nearly everything.

What are they and how do I get rid of them without contaminating
my edible plants with chemicals?  The bugs seemed to slow down 
over the winter, but I am still picking them off from time to
time.  My bay tree (one of the few I didn't lose) seems to still
get them as well as my palms. I did notice over the winter that 
these bugs leave a "sticky" residue on the plants and I found
several fuzzy cocoons over the winter (which I immediately 
destroyed). 

I also noticed that I seem to have an influx of small red and 
black striped bugs (look kinda like beetles, and they hang out
where it is sunny). I have sprayed my greenhouse and killed 
literally thousands of these bugs.  Are they related? If not,
do I have another potential nightmare on my hands?

I would appreciate any help on this as I would like to start
my seedlings within the next two weeks.

Jacq
jacksonj@eon.com



From bpine@tuba.aix.calpoly.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:30 EST 1995
Article: 58451 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!waldorf.csc.calpoly.edu!isnews.calpoly.edu!tuba.aix.calpoly.edu!bpine
From: bpine@tuba.aix.calpoly.edu (Brian Keith Pine (Piner))
Newsgroups: news.groups,misc.consumers,misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: new group: alt.living.tightwad
Date: 13 Mar 1995 21:59:53 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <3k2f8p$4sa@isnews.calpoly.edu>
References: <3jj9vs$91p@isnews.calpoly.edu> <LCBell.9.0007FDBA@memach.com> <3jneos$293@crl4.crl.com>
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S. Rennacker (slr@crl.com) wrote:
: As I approach retirement with modest assets, I have been considering a 
: newgroup to help participants learn from each other how and where to get 
: the most for their money with a special focus on (but not limited to) health 
: care, cost of living, etc. This seems related to "tightwad" living, so 
: long as the primary focus is on getting the most for one's money rather 
: than on self-sufficiency through more work and/or recycling, etc.

Well, a frugal newsgroup would definitely include health care, cost of
living, and other things you are interested in since these all factor
into your overall budget and need to be minimized. I would say that the
whole point of a frugal newsgroup is getting the most for your money,
whether this involves buying things at a store inexpensively, a garage
sale, or reusing things you already have.  But even getting the best
deals buying new at a store requires extra work.

It would still include things on being more self-sufficient and
recycling things.  Of course a lot of people might not have the time
or patience to do things like grow a garden or do their own canning.
But I don't think these will be a big part of the group, especially
because I would expect a lot of discussion  on these topics that don't
address frugality to end up in rec.gardens and rec.food.preserving.
But you are rarely going to be interested in everything discussed in one
particular group.

The bottom line is that I think you will find that the eventual frugal
newsgroup to be what you are looking for.

-Brian



From cuzz@midway.uchicago.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:31 EST 1995
Article: 58452 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!ellis!cuzz
From: cuzz@ellis.uchicago.edu (Laura Cuzzillo)
Subject: compost tumbler?
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: midway.uchicago.edu
Message-ID: <D5EFv9.FzG@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator)
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 22:01:56 GMT
Lines: 13
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I received some sales material for a drum like composter, and
I'm wondering if anyone out there has any experience with
this device.  You turn the "heap" by rotating the drum with a
crank, so you don't need the space you do with other compact
compost systems.  It sounds like a great idea, but it seems a little
pricey at $300 for the small model.

If you have one, or know someone who does, I'd love to know how
you like it.  Is it worth the $$??

Laura Cuzzillo
cuzz@midway.uchicago.edu


From diveanddig@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:32 EST 1995
Article: 58453 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: diveanddig@aol.com (Diveanddig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Clemantis
Date: 13 Mar 1995 22:03:59 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 24
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3k312v$gu8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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Reply-To: diveanddig@aol.com (Diveanddig)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Here is a post I made on AOL last month concerning clematis pruning.

Jackmanii is a group three Clematis and should be pruned to just above the
first pair of strong buds - about 6 to 12 inches from the ground every
winter.  They bloom on new growth and are late blooming.  These are
vigorous vines and can add new growth of up to one inch a day and will
grow higher and thicker than the previous growth before blooming - it
might seem drastic but trust me and DO IT!  Group three should be pruned
early at the end of January to the first half of Feb (zone 6). 

Nellie Moser is a group two Clematis and will bloom early on buds forming
close to last years growth so only the deadwood should be pruned on
established vines after the buds swell enough to differentiate between
deadwood and live vine.  Newly planted group two  vines should be pruned
severely to 12 inches high  the first Feb.,  40 inches the second Feb. and
deadwood thereafter. This will give you vines with multiple main shoots
from the ground and a well shaped plant that is not top heavy.  Deadwood
pruning is done for esthetic purposes only.  

February is a good time to fertilize Clematis with a slow release
fertilizer and they like neutral to basic PH soil so,  if needed, apply
lime in Feb. also.

Bill Bird  zone 6  NY


From conrad@richters.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:34 EST 1995
Article: 58454 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!richtr!conrad
From: conrad@richters.com (Conrad Richter)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: sweet cicely
Message-ID: <eTJw2c1w165w@richters.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 07:42:25 EST
References: <3jsg17$11r0@bigblue.oit.unc.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: Richters Herbs
Lines: 13
Status: O
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bartj@med.unc.edu (John W Bartlett) writes:

> I am thinking of putting in some sweet cicely (myrrh) in my herb garden.
> A book I have says it does best in cool northern weather.Does anyone in
> Zone 7 have any success with this herb?

Zone 7 should be fine.  

Conrad Richter

RICHTERS HERBS                     | Info:                 info@richters.com
Goodwood, ON  L0C 1A0, Canada      | Catalog Requests:  catalog@richters.com
Tel +1-905-640-6677  Fax 640-6641  | What's New for '95:    new@richters.com


From jstier@yu1.yu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:35 EST 1995
Article: 58455 of rec.gardens
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From: Jeff Stier <jstier@yu1.yu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: last frost date for Boston?
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 23:13:03 -0500
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
Lines: 13
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> I live on the Cape and I don't plant tender things out until Memorial Day.

Do you know when the last frost is in the NYC area?
Thanks
JEFF

******************************************************************************
Jeff Stier
jstier@yu1.yu.edu
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




From aramirez@agsm.ucla.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:36 EST 1995
Article: 58456 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!uunet!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!library.ucla.edu!news.agsm.ucla.edu!news.agsm.ucla.edu!not-for-mail
From: aramirez@agsm.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez)
Newsgroups: news.config,news.groups,misc.consumers,misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Propose new group: alt.living.tightwad
Date: 13 Mar 1995 14:08:22 -0800
Organization: The Anderson School at UCLA
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <3k2fom$l9h@risc.agsm.ucla.edu>
References: <3jj9vs$91p@isnews.calpoly.edu> <3jl41q$9se@shore.shore.net> <laurenceD56q4B.29s@netcom.com>
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X-Status: 

I love this idea.  Maybe there could also be an
alt.living.tightward.support for those of us who have problems with
being and staying frugal



From don@tiller.eris.org Thu Mar 16 00:40:37 EST 1995
Article: 58457 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!olivea!hal.COM!nntp-sc.barrnet.net!news.fujitsu.com!amdahl.com!tiller.eris.org!don
From: don@tiller.eris.org (Don R. Stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Can't plant!!???
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 15:31:47 PST
Message-ID: <01062030.ok5f2s@tiller.eris.org>
Reply-To: don@tiller.eris.org (Don R. Stephens)
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Hi folks,
I am in the South San Fransico Bay Area. 
temperature usually warm (?zone 15?). My problem is that I usually start
my seeds in February in a wee little hot house. I did so this year. The
seeds have sprouted and growing superbly well. the tomatoes are up about
3 inches, the beans 8 or 10 inches, lettuce up maybe 5 inches, so far so
good. HOWEVER, I have a problem; I haven't been able to rototill the ground
and so the beds aren't made, the drip system isn't in!!!!, all because
of the continuous rains.  
What are your recommendations, junk everything and start all over?, hold
my seedlings as long as possible and maybe - feed them????.
Help gratefully accepted.
Don

-------------------------------------
Don R. Stephens				don@tiller.eris.org


From 72674.2043@CompuServe.COM Thu Mar 16 00:40:39 EST 1995
Article: 58459 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!lionel.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Bob Bland <72674.2043@CompuServe.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: ?Water Lilies in Vermont
Date: 14 Mar 1995 03:26:49 GMT
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service
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I have a boggy area in front of my house in which I would like to 
plant some flowering plants. This area has an apparently constant 
slow flow of water throughout the year, even in winter, if this 
mild one just passing is an indicator. There is no surface 
water, except where I have dug trenches and there it fluctuates 
by about 3" but never goes dry. The area gets full sun for the 
most part. I am thinking of water lilies in some of the 
shallow ponds (6-12") I am making and would like to share the 
experience of others in northern (zone 4a) climates. Also, are 
there other flowering bog plants or ones with interesting foliage 
that might do well here.


From fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:40 EST 1995
Article: 58460 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!fs708
From: fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Debra  Roby)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Favorite Garden Tools
Date: 14 Mar 1995 12:14:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3k41b4$1a6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
References: <dak2.521.2F5B2983@psu.edu> <3jnu3p$deq@wizard.uark.edu>
Reply-To: fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Debra  Roby)
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My favorite gardening tool?

Without a doubt it is my gardener's mattock.

Half-sized, it is light and easy for me to use (bad shoulder and all).  It
has a pick end and a blade end.  I planted 100 daffodils in an afternoon
with this tool right after I bought it.  work nice holes for planting
shrubs, dig rocks out of the lawn, and never have to worry about someone
sneaking up and hurting me. {:D}

My DH bought this for me a s an anniversary present.  I love this tool


From rquag@etsd.ml.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:42 EST 1995
Article: 58461 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!pendragon!fullfeed!genesis.npr.legent.com!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!commpost!necrosis!rquag
From: rquag@etsd.ml.com (Robert Quagliata)
Subject: Re: Organically removing slugs?
Message-ID: <D51A6t.Cwz@tigadmin.ml.com>
Sender: usenet@tigadmin.ml.com (News Account)
Reply-To: rquag@etsd.ml.com
Organization: Merill Lynch
References: <3j26mh$gs9@mimsy.cs.umd.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 19:30:28 GMT
Lines: 4
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I was watching one of the home shows on cable and they say:
	
	put beer in a shallow pan, the slugs love beer, and so they drown.



From 72674.2043@CompuServe.COM Thu Mar 16 00:40:44 EST 1995
Article: 58462 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!lionel.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Bob Bland <72674.2043@CompuServe.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: witch hazel bloom time - update
Date: 14 Mar 1995 03:37:11 GMT
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service
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There are both fall and spring (late winter) blooming witch 
hazels. In Boston, the springs ones usually bloom in early March, 
but actually started this year in our false spring back in 
January. Now they are blooming fully, but not as brightly as in 
years past.


From waltshaf@abare.gov.au Thu Mar 16 00:40:45 EST 1995
Article: 58463 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!munnari.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!newshost.abare.gov.au!usenet
From: Walter Shafron <waltshaf@abare.gov.au>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Germinating Olive Seeds
Date: 14 Mar 1995 03:46:20 GMT
Organization: ABARE
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I have recently read in a book on propagation that olive trees are easy
to grow by germinating the seed and then grafting onto a rootstock. I was
wondering if there are any tricks in the germination stage. It doesnt
strike me that olive seeds would be easy to start. Has anyone done this,
and is the grafting onto rootstock only to expedite the development of
the tree that would otherwise be painstakingly slow.

Thanks
Walter Shafron


From allyn@u.washington.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:46 EST 1995
Article: 58464 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nntp.cac.washington.edu!psaltery.chem.washington.edu!user
From: allyn@u.washington.edu (Allyn Weaks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: low pH soil ... resistant to lime?
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 19:52:34 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 66
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In article <3k2bci$kji@nntp2.u.washington.edu>, fpm@u.washington.edu
(Frank Miles) wrote:

> We have tested our soil for about 5 years now (Sudbury kit), only to
> find a persistent low pH: initially about 4.5, it has crept up to 
> under 5.5.  This is despite adding over 100 lb of dolomitic lime each
> year to our 800 ft^2 of garden soil (this would seem to be a pretty
> high concentration).
> 
> What might be the problem?
>         - the lime might be leached out in each winter's rain (we're
>                         in Seattle).
>         - lime doesn't change pH as well as you might think (tell me
>                         more).
>         - the Sudbury kit is inaccurate
>         - there's something in the soil that persists in decreasing the
>                         ph.  (perhaps our compost pile?  the breakdown
>                         of the sod pile, what used to be the top layer
>                         of our garden plot?)
> 
> Has anyone had a similar experience?  We know that most garden plants
> really don't like this low a pH (hard for the roots to absorb the right
> things when there's such an exchange occurring just due to pH).

Most Pacific Northwest soils have little clay, and leaching of all
nutrients is fairly quick, with the result that they are naturally
infertile(*) and low pH.  You might reduce the leaching somewhat by
increasing the organic content a lot (if you haven't already) to buffer
any pH swings.  A good healthy soil with plenty of decomposers (fungi,
insects, worms, bacteria, even (gasp!) slugs) and a heavy mulch layer to
give them plenty to work with is even more important here than back east
to keep the nutrient cycle going.  Some cover crops (buckwheat?) do better
than others at grabbing calcium and other pH raising ions to prevent them
vanishing over winter.  Dandelions and other deeply taprooted plants are
good at bringing up calcium and other goodies from the subsoil if said
goodies haven't washed away altogether, so don't poison them - pull them
up and utilize their little corpses!  And certainly grow a winter cover
crop or keep a deep mulch layer rather than let the soil be bare.  Mulch
is available free from tree trimming companies, though they may bring you
ground up conifers, which won't help raise your pH :-)

[(*) One of several reasons to disbelieve the logging companies when they
claim that they can continuously grow trees here on a 50 year cycle, slash
burning in between.  The nutrient cycle can't support it.]


To minimize toil and trouble, you could switch to native plants for as
much as possible of your yard, and only try to keep a small area at a
higher pH for exotics and veggies (though my lettuces and beans and such
did just fine last year in 5.5).  The book by Kruckeberg, _Gardening with
Native Plants of the PNW_ is a good place to start looking into the lovely
native possibilities - not only a wide range of flowering shrubs (many
with tasty berries for you and the birds) and ground covers and ferns, but
wonderful lilies and irises and lots of perennials.  If you choose things
that are happy in the local dry forest and clearing areas, you get the
added bonus of not having to water more than once or twice during the
summer once they become established.

My pH is at about 5.0 to 5.5, and I need to reduce it somewhat to make
life easy for huckleberries and to get rid of that nasty grass I've got
all over the place :-)  My moss is coming along nicely in the back yard,
and I'll probably put in wild strawberry and kinnikinnik as ground cover
in the front, which faces south and gets a fair amount of sun in season...
-- 
Allyn Weaks
allyn@u.washington.edu


From fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:47 EST 1995
Article: 58465 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!fs708
From: fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Debra  Roby)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: HGTV
Date: 14 Mar 1995 12:56:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <3k43p6$40p@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
References: <mfrost.305.01308C52@primenet.com> <eN4s2c1w165w@bstorey.Gwinnett.COM>
Reply-To: fs708@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Debra  Roby)
NNTP-Posting-Host: piglet.ins.cwru.edu
Status: O
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In a previous article, mhs@bstorey.Gwinnett.COM (Storeybrook Farms) says:

>mfrost@primenet.com (Martha Frost) writes:
>> 
>> >I am curious how many of you folks are getting the new HGTV ( Home and
>> >Garden Network) through your local cable systems.  I think it is great

Won't subscribe to cable.  But I would love to get some of the programs. 
HGTV sounds like a winner to me.
>> >Meredith
>> I am not sure if we get that program in Southern California. Our PBS station 
>> has kind of lost my gardening attention. For one thing, it's
>> disappointing in the tendency of some garden shows to wander off to exotic 
>> lands with huge estates, leaving us at home with our mundane gardens. I'd be 
>> interested in a more backyard kind of approach.
>> Regards, Martha
>> mfrost@primenet.com
>
>I couldn't agree more!  Give us more old fashion remedies
>and malladies.  Storeybrook Farms
>
Thank you both!!  I am beginning to believe that Victory Garden is R.
Morash's reason to take exotic vacations with his wife and write it off as
"doing business."  Was REALLY upset that during last season's summer shows,
which are supposed to be all new material, there were repeated segments
from the winter shows (shown each winter for about 4 years).  Only about
1/2 of each show last season was new.

Wish I could get a GOOD gardening shows on our local PBS station, but they
don't listen to me.  (And I have, therefore, decided not to remain a member
for them).


From rdkeyser@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:49 EST 1995
Article: 58466 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: rdkeyser@ix.netcom.com (Roger Keyser)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Mexican Heather -- Perennial or Annual?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 04:11:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k352c$a4b@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <Ru-7GEk.wendlandt@delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-atl9-04.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
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Does anyone know whether Mexican Heather is a perennial or an annual?  
Sorry, I don't know the horticultural name, just have the common name.  
We have a friend who doesn't want to wait to find out if it will come 
back this Spring.  I guess he wants to plant in the space now, if it's an 
annual.  Thanks in advance for any advice.


-- 
Roger Keyser_____________________________________________________________
                                                          Interactive
                                                          -------------->
rdkeyser@ix.netcom.com                                        Engineering
                                                          <--------------


From jbachman@pipeline.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:50 EST 1995
Article: 58468 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail
From: jbachman@pipeline.com (John Bachman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Where to get trees to plant?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 08:02:03 -0500
Organization: The Pipeline
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References: <3k21om$10q0@saturn.caps.maine.edu>
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In rec.gardens markford@saturn.caps.maine.edu (Mark H. Ford) said: 
 
 
>Where can I buy "Christmas tree" seedlings? 
> 
>-mark 
>markford@saturn.caps.maine.edu 
> 
-- 
John Bachman 


From jbachman@pipeline.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:51 EST 1995
Article: 58469 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail
From: jbachman@pipeline.com (John Bachman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Where to get trees to plant?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 08:10:52 -0500
Organization: The Pipeline
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In rec.gardens jbachman@pipeline.com (John Bachman) said: 
 
 
>In rec.gardens markford@saturn.caps.maine.edu (Mark H. Ford) said:   
>  
>>Where can I buy "Christmas tree" seedlings?  
>>  
>>-mark  
>>markford@saturn.caps.maine.edu  
>>  
>- 
I get mine from the New Hampshire Division of Forests & Lands,
603-271-3456.  A Maine source is Fedco POBox 520, Waterville, ME 04903.  I
haven't bought christmas trees from Fedco but I have bought fruit trees and
veg. seeds  -  all with good luck.  Nice people too.-- 
John Bachman 


From nmates@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:52 EST 1995
Article: 58470 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: nmates@aol.com (NMATES)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Rookie needs help
Date: 13 Mar 1995 23:09:31 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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X-Status: 

I am wanting to start a garden this year.  I live in the Houston, Texas
area and I
am not sure what would grow best in this area.  I was thinking of carrots,
potatoes, broccoli, pole beans, and tomatoes.

Where can I go for accurate information about growing a garden (organic if
possible) in the Houston, TX area.

Thanks


From carter@unb.ca Thu Mar 16 00:40:54 EST 1995
Article: 58471 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!news.unb.ca!unb.ca!carter
From: carter@unb.ca (Mike Carter)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Crows in the garbage
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 10:36:20
Organization: University of New Brunswick
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.202.12.50
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Up to last week I was sure that dogs were tearing apart my garbage bags 
shortly after I put them out at the end of my driveway. Last week I discovered 
it is crows. They make a real mess. Dogs come by and leave their tracks but 
are not to blame.

I do not really want to buy traditional garbage cans, as they would have to 
sit at the end of the driveway all day, and a traditional garbage bin made out 
of plywood would seem too unsitely for our very clean neighbourhood.

Does anyone have any ideas?

MFC


From jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org Thu Mar 16 00:40:55 EST 1995
Article: 58472 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: SHOULD I BUY WORMS?˙˙˙˙˙˙
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Message-ID: <36.11734.2599@granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 00:34:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372
Lines: 55
Status: O
X-Status: 


PS> Mary Spencer (mspencer@nando.net) wrote: 

: Well, should I buy worms?
PS> I've seen some in my soil, but for what they do : it seems that more
PS> would help out. DO I naturally have as many worms as : my organic
PS> matter can carry, or would buying more help?

Peg Seremjian replies:

PS> The soil I had experience with was a heavy clay soil with almost no
PS> earthworms. I amended it with *lots* of organic matter (8-10" tilled
PS> in in the fall, plus organic mulch all season) and the earthworms
PS> came in droves. I have no idea how they know its there, but there
PS> were 50-100 every spadeful compared to almost none where I had made
PS> no efforts toward soil improvement.

PS> If Jim McNelly reads this, perhaps he'll add more, particularly on
PS> the number of worms your soil can support. I got my wormbox after
PS> reading his posts on vermicomposting on Prodigy a few years back. He
PS> knows his worms, thats for sure! :)

You betcha! It makes little sense to buy garden worms to add to 
topsoil. The worm carrying capacity of a soil is directly proportional 
to the available feed, plus moisture and temperature. If you feed the 
soil, the worms will come.

Earthworms do not make a poor soil good; they only make a good soil 
better. The number of worms per acre in 7% organic matter soil such as 
prairies or deciduous forest is about 900 lbs. At approximately 300 
adult lumbricus terrestris (nightcrawlers) to the pound, that is around 
270,000 worms. At approximately 44,000 square feet to the acre, that is 
a minimum of six worms per square foot.

If your soil is depleted, the number of worms drops proportionally. 
Poor soils can have as few as one worm per four square feet. If you use 
vermicides such as certain pesticides, you may have killed most of the 
worms off. Adding organic matter such as compost and mulch will 
immediately trigger the worms amazing reproductive skills and build up 
the population within a year or two. I have seen super composted soils 
with as many as 25 worms per square foot. It may not be a sustainable 
population, but it is fun while it lasts!

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org


 * RM 1.3 02460 * Sure, when... OINK FLAP OINK FLAP... Well I'll be damned!

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 654-8372 28.8K 3 Lines
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org Thu Mar 16 00:40:56 EST 1995
Article: 58473 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: COMPOST PROBLEMS
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Message-ID: <36.11720.2599@granite.mn.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 18:55:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372
Lines: 48
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jen Meyer replies:
References: <9503090218021483@southwest.org> 

JM> if there isn't enough air, and 3' x 3' might be too deep one way or
JM> another. You can put a stick or pole down the center of the pile and
JM> remove it leaving an open channel for air to enter -- this might
JM> help.

Hi Jen,

You do well to think about aerating via poking the pile, but air does 
not go "down" a chimney to where the warm area is. Heated air rises, so 
poking a pile is to enable the air to permeate the pile through a grate 
at the base. If there is no pathway for air to enter from the base of 
the bin, there is little point in poking a pile.

JM> permits air to be throughout the compost. I've introduced earthworms
JM> to my compost as well, and last time I checked they were getting
JM> *really* fat.

If a composting pile is active and hot, adding earthworms is the surest 
way to get cooked earthworms. Make sure the pile is cool and passive 
before ever adding worms. Adding garden worms may help a bit, but they 
tend to burrow beneath the pile, coming up to feed. If you move the 
pile, the worms underneath may starve.

Redworms are the species to add to a compost pile for curing. They are 
rarely available in the yard since they require moist rich organic 
matter that does not freeze solid. They do not live in mineral soils as 
do their garden worm cousins. Redworms are best purchased from redworm 
growers.

Once the redworms take over a composting pile, they reproduce rapidly 
and can cure the whole mass in a matter of weeks. I think that they are 
the greatest!

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org


 * RM 1.3 02460 * Sometimes spiritual work involves a hoe and earthworms.

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 654-8372 28.8K 3 Lines
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From sfo@bu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:40:57 EST 1995
Article: 58474 of rec.gardens
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From: sfo@bu.edu (Samme Orwig)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: One more Clematis question
Date: 14 Mar 1995 13:42:10 GMT
Organization: Boston University
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I had 2 Belle of Woking vines planted
side by side on trellises. One grew
and the other became covered with the
black wilt. Last week they were both
setting buds, but I will move the
weaker one in May and see if it helps.

NB: One senses clematis don't like to
be near laundry/dryer vents.

ANOTHER CLEMATIS QUESTION: Is Barbara Jackman a group 1, 2 or 3? Will it
tolerate some shade cover?

Thanks
/samme


ELIZABETH GEPPERT (rosepark@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Last year during an unusually hot spell three of my favorite clematis vines wilted
: and died to the ground.  I was heartbroken.  Since then I have read up on Clematis
: Wilt.  The experts seem to blame an evil microorganism.  I am not altogether 
: convinced though.  In my yard I have about twelve clematis vines and the only ones
: that wilted were trellised against a south facing brick wall.  Could it have been
: the heat of the bricks?  Those three vines have come up from the roots and are
: starting to grow now.  Should I move them?  Is now a good time? Is there a way
: to prevent this from happening again?


: >



From azureus@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:40:58 EST 1995
Article: 58475 of rec.gardens
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From: azureus@aol.com (Azureus)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Variegated plants from seed?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 08:59:24 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <3k23sn$m4u@post.its.mcw.edu>, Don Martinson
<dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu> writes:
>> Does anyone out there have any expertise regarding sexual propagation
>> of plants with variegated foliage. Do (all, some, none, any) come true
>> from seed?  Any help appreciated.  Post reply or e-mail.

Kay Klier wrote:
>succeeding generations, while many other plants (esp. the ones with
>white-striped leaves, which are usually chimeric) don't come true
>from seed.

>Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu

For chimeras, I've noticed that if the seed pod shows any variegation at
all,
the seeds inside will almost always produce more chimeras.

April

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From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Variegated plants from seed?
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Date: 13 Mar 95 15:01:05 -0600
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From allyn@u.washington.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:00 EST 1995
Article: 58476 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!nntp.cac.washington.edu!psaltery.chem.washington.edu!user
From: allyn@u.washington.edu (Allyn Weaks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Seattle soils (was: Re: Need help with Seattle herb garden...)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:02:38 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <allyn-1303952102380001@psaltery.chem.washington.edu>
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In article <3k25eg$dp7@news.halcyon.com>, cirsium@halcyon.com wrote:

> >   Tracy Warner <twarner@nmo.gtegsc.com> writes:
> >  My garden gets a lot of sun and the soil is claylike and fertile.
> 
> You may find that the typical Seattle clay requires some deep digging
> and incorporation of compost plus some coarse sand to improve its
> drainage.  Most of the popular herbs will not tolerate wet feet, and are
> much more likely to drown during our winters than freeze!

I'm curious about exactly where you live that you have any clay to speak
of in your soil.  I keep hearing people talk about the heavy clay soil in
Seattle, but I've yet to see any.  I'm in Greenwood and have 10% tops
(mostly much less) with a goodly amount of sand and much coarse silt and
some fine silt, which from the reading that I've been doing is pretty
typical for the Sound in general unless you're in an alluvial floodplain. 
Did the contractors of some eras and areas truck in clay soil as 'top'
soil?  Or are you lucky enough (or foresightful enough) to live in one of
the alluvial valleys?

Poor drainage can be due to a hardpan layer beneath the surface soil,
either naturally there (quite common on gently undulating terrain, usually
about two to three feet down before construction mangling) or due to heavy
construction vehicles packing things down when they built the house, or
sometimes due to frequent tilling to the same depth.  If the hardpan is
quite near the surface, it's the digging that breaks it up, not the
addition of sand per se.  A cover crop with very deep roots like winter
rye or white radish or dandelions will do better than digging, assuming of
course that the hardpan isn't bedrock :-).  A heavy mulch to encourage
worms and other tunneling decomposers also helps tremendously (as do
moles!)  If you're in a basin, though, it may be hard to rectify things
without putting in drains to the sewer system, at which point raised beds
or planting bog plants might be more practical.

I'm curious as to whether you've tested your soil for clay content (easy
to do at home with a jar and a clock).  Having come from St. Louis where
there is _real_ clay, I've yet to see any around here...if you can't make
a pot from it, and if doesn't collect in gigantic gooey masses on your
boots to the point where you can't pick your feet up, it's not real clay
:-).  If you have any extra, can I have some?  To remind me of what I'm
not missing? :-)
-- 
Allyn Weaks
allyn@u.washington.edu


From wade@uabcomm.comm.uab.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:01 EST 1995
Article: 58477 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!willis.cis.uab.edu!maze.dpo.uab.edu!usenet
From: comm034@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu (Wade Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Who is Martha?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 13:56:43 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Alabama Birmingham
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Heck, guys, I think if you take both comments and
mix 'em you might get an small idea of who she isn't. I bet neither one of
you know her personally (me neither) so you can not deduct that she is
a tyrant or that she is the victim of "male" scorn because she is successful.
She like most anyone else is probably just a normal person that liked 
something enough to try it out as a career and WOW! she made it a business.
That is America!? Good for her. So, we come to what is a GARDENER? Is
it someone that gets their hands dirty day in a day out? How often do you
have to get on your knees and dig to be a gardener? Is knowledge about
plants only to be used by oneself? Do you share your information? To whom,
and with how many people? How? If she thinks gardens and plants then she is 
a gardener in my book. Information is growth for "ignorance is the night
of the mind". She grows and shares. She is an asset. Choose what you want
from it and leave the rest behind.....like this post. 
Now, my ten cents worth has depreciated to about a penny. I've got 
plants to plants you know...oh yes, the weeds to pull.
wade (just wade) zone 7-8
  ....on us all, a little rain must fall...
 .....and yes, I've already gotten poisen ivy this year....
......twice, actually....


From fletcher@prairienet.org Thu Mar 16 00:41:02 EST 1995
Article: 58478 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: FYI: Gardening software reviews on the WWW
Date: 14 Mar 1995 14:11:09 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
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Since there have been a lot of questions lately, here are a couple of 
starting points. Both are available via The Garden Gate, on the new 
Gardening Software page: 

	FLOWERSCAPE: An illustrated e-review. 
	The Garden Gate's own review of a garden design program
	for PC and Mac.

	"A Look at Landscape and Gardening Software"
		http://www.wimsey.com/tcp/Jan95/Gardening.html
	By Martin P. Waterman.  From Canada's 
	_The Computer Paper_, this article discusses 
	software programs for garden layout and design.

Karen Fletcher                                     fletcher@prairienet.org
==========================================================================
The Garden Gate            http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm
The Garden Gate at SunSITE  http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm
The Garden Spider's Web    http://mirror.wwa.com/mirror/garden/spdrsweb.htm



From lgesmer@wilder.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:03 EST 1995
Article: 58479 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.wing.net!lgesmer
From: lgesmer@wilder.com (Lee Gesmer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Lawn Care
Date: 14 Mar 1995 14:14:58 GMT
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We moved into a house with a large lawn two years ago, and have had two
"lawn"seasons. 
 
Both years, I insisted that we not use a "Scotts Four Step" plan, and try
to control weeds, crabgrass, ect., without poisens. 
 
Both years, it didn't work.  I did the usual things: kept grass high,
weeded manually, used mild fertilizer, ect. 
 
This year, my wife is insisting on Scotts.  I am concerned about what it
might do to birds, animals, the goldfish in our pond (through run off). 
 
I'd appreciate any comments from anyone who has faced similar problems 
-- 
Lee Gesmer 


From jrohed@edv1e99 Thu Mar 16 00:41:04 EST 1995
Article: 58480 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: jrohed@edv1e99 (Jonathan Rohed)
Subject: Fungus on mums- what to do?
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About 3 weeks ago I got a shipment of "Blaz-o-mums" and 3 types of Clematis from Gurnees and set them out (shaded at first and then exposed to full sun gradually). During the last week or so, it appears as though there is fungal growth on the existent leaves and also starting to appear on the new growth.
It looks like the fungus is starting to also affect the Clematis which is a few feet away- a very unhappy situation. Most of the other pre-existent plants in the area, with the same exposure and watering (and including older mums) are not infected. The reference books say to remove and destroy the plants. Is there some other sort of treatment I can give them which is less radical? I have been reading horror stories about fungicides touching the wrong plants and destroying them.Any advice? Please help!

Thanks in advance;

Jonathan Rohed
W10436@email.mot.com
Lake Worth FL Zone 9-10


From fletcher@prairienet.org Thu Mar 16 00:41:06 EST 1995
Article: 58481 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herbs that grow in shade
Date: 14 Mar 1995 14:25:05 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
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Maryanne Todd (lssac@luxor.latrobe.edu.au) wrote:
: A list of herbs that are shade lovers or shade tolerant would be greatly
: appreciated.  Any herb list would be appreciated, and if it isn't
: suited to our area I can find out.  I'm in Melbourne, Australia, so
: please don't ask me for my zone, we don't have any!

Sadly, most common herbs are of Mediterranean origin and will be 
disappointing if grown in anything less than full sun. 

If you can redirect your ambitions, though, it sounds like you have a 
lovely spot for a shade garden - and there are LOTS of wonderful plants 
to choose from for that.

Karen Fletcher                                     fletcher@prairienet.org
==========================================================================
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From allyn@u.washington.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:07 EST 1995
Article: 58482 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!nntp.cac.washington.edu!psaltery.chem.washington.edu!user
From: allyn@u.washington.edu (Allyn Weaks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bird feeder without weeds?
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:22:01 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
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In article <D52wGx.LKE@metronet.com>, pnash@metronet.com (Pat Nash) wrote:

> I have a bird feeder in my back yard (currently over grass, but I will 
> soon have a garden area for it).  The birds are VERY sloppy eaters and 
> throw half of the seed overboard while they are eating!  Any suggestions 
> on keeping these seeds from germinating - mulch, brick base, etc.?

I've starting letting the seeds have at it.  Not that many sprout and
survive, and of those that do: millet will give you a nice crop of more
millet in about 6 to 8 weeks (I've had a few with more than 200 seeds on a
one foot tall plant!), and the oil sunflowers, being hybrids, won't turn
into giant sunflowers, but cute little ones, ranging in size from about 6
inches tall to a foot, with nice bright yellow flowers (no seeds that I've
seen).  Nothing has escaped more than a few feet from the feeder.  Every
now and then I rake across the pile of empty shells and spilled ones to
spread them out and give the squirrels a shot at the leftovers and to keep
the pile from growing into a mound.  Makes a nice mulch.
-- 
Allyn Weaks
allyn@u.washington.edu


From mcat@webe.hooked.net Thu Mar 16 00:41:08 EST 1995
Article: 58483 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!its.hooked.net!webe.hooked.net!not-for-mail
From: mcat@webe.hooked.net (Catherine Dobbins M.D.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Moss--
Date: 13 Mar 1995 21:16:13 -0800
Organization: Hooked
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Hi, all-- 
     I'm looking for information about moss--types, how to grow, etc.  I
have a new rock wall and pond and am wanting to get a variety of mosses to
grow between the rocks.  This weekend I collected moss from the woods,
mixed it with yougurt to make a paste and painted it on the cement between
the rocks to hasten the growth of moss in these areas.  Will keep you
posted on the success!   Thanks for any information you may have. 
Catherine 
-- 
M.C. Dobbins, M.D. 
Hillsborough, CA 
mcat@hooked.net 


From swirsky@umis.upenn.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:09 EST 1995
Article: 58484 of rec.gardens
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From: swirsky@umis.upenn.edu (Ted Swirsky)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Info in growing carrots from seed?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 14:25:52 GMT
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My daughter likes carrots and insisted we buy some seeds.  Are carrots
difficult to grow?  Any special requirements besides deep, loosened soil?

We are in South Jersey.  Thanks!


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:10 EST 1995
Article: 58485 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Help - White fuzzy bugs!
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.233541.40180@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 23:35:41 -0600
References: <jacksonj.795128060@corp>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 65
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X-Status: 

In article <jacksonj.795128060@corp>, jacksonj@eon.com (Jacquelyn Jackson) writes:
> Last year, I bought a condo with a solarium (technically, 
> it is a greenhouse because it has single pane glass, roof, 
> and side vents) so that I could have the garden I have 
> always wanted and still stay in the city.
> 
> Last summer, I noticed small white fuzzy bugs on several of my 
> tomato plants.  I tried dish soap, and then Safer Soap for garden
> veggies with no success.  The bugs spread to every plant (basil,
> rosemary, lavender, various flowering plants, bay, eucalyptus, 
> schefalaras (sp?) pony tail palms, peppers, thyme, catnip, mint,
> and more) except marjoram and chives. I lost nearly everything.

Sounds like you may have had a mealy bug or scale infestation.  Easiest
'cure' in a closed environment may be a pyrethin-containing
"flea bomb" , followed by close surveillance and prompt eradication
of any residual critters with a q-tip dipped in rubbing alcohol.
> 
> What are they and how do I get rid of them without contaminating
> my edible plants with chemicals?  The bugs seemed to slow down 
> over the winter, but I am still picking them off from time to
> time.  My bay tree (one of the few I didn't lose) seems to still
> get them as well as my palms. I did notice over the winter that 
> these bugs leave a "sticky" residue on the plants and I found
> several fuzzy cocoons over the winter (which I immediately 
> destroyed). 
> 
> I also noticed that I seem to have an influx of small red and 
> black striped bugs (look kinda like beetles, and they hang out
> where it is sunny). I have sprayed my greenhouse and killed 
> literally thousands of these bugs.  Are they related? If not,
> do I have another potential nightmare on my hands?

Offhand, it sounds like you might have boxelder bugs which
are harmless.  It is, however, nearly impossible to identify
critters over the net with any assurance. 


Best things to do:  
1) submit a sample of any new possible pest species to your
local extension agent or entomology extension for identification
and control recommendations.  Keep a sample of the critter for
yourself, too... so you can compare samples later.  Dry hard
bodied insects like beetles and bugs, and store them dry.  Put
soft-bodied insects in a bottle of rubbing alcohol.

2) Get a book on insect identification.  Your extension office
may have an inexpensive book or pamphlet of common pest species,
or you may want a more general work, like Cynthia Westcott's
books.  My own preference for beginners is the wonderfully
illustrated and easy to use "Insects" volume from the Peterson's
Field Guide series.  Although it does not have pictures of every
garden pest species, you can at least determine if the insect
at hand belongs to a group known to cause trouble.  The "key"
on the front endpapers is very useful and easy.

Kay Klier   klier@cobra.uni.edu

> 
> I would appreciate any help on this as I would like to start
> my seedlings within the next two weeks.
> 
> Jacq
> jacksonj@eon.com
> 


From fletcher@prairienet.org Thu Mar 16 00:41:11 EST 1995
Article: 58487 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: "Potting" plants
Date: 14 Mar 1995 14:49:33 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <3k4adt$oiq@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Birdmommy (birdmommy@aol.com) wrote:
: Ok, stupid question time, my 7 year old asked me and *I* don't know the
: answer!  (Gee, Mom really DOESN'T know everything)  can you (has anyone)
: ever grown tomatoes, peppers etc. INSIDE in containers in the winter?  Can
: it be done?  Will it work? Can we have fresh Tomatoes and Peppers all
: winter?

Birdmommy?  What a great name.

Yes, it can be done.  No, it can't be done cheaply unless you have a real
sunroom (glass ceiling) or a heated greenhouse already.  Tomatoes and
peppers are tropical plants that need a warm place with LOTS of sunlight
to grow sturdy and thrive.  It simply can't be done properly with
articifial light unless you get into the high (expensive) end with HID
lighting.  Flourescents can support the seedling to a certain size, but
past that, there simply isn't enough light energy to bring the plants up
right.  

Because of the way the human eye perceives brightness levels, we don't
realize that a bright, sunny day can be 10,000 times brighter than our
homes indoors under artificial lighting.

Karen Fletcher                                     fletcher@prairienet.org
==========================================================================
The Garden Gate            http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm
The Garden Gate at SunSITE  http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm
The Garden Spider's Web    http://mirror.wwa.com/mirror/garden/spdrsweb.htm



From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:12 EST 1995
Article: 58488 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: how to ripen tomatoes
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.234337.40181@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 23:43:37 -0600
References: <gbilney.680.2F23EC68@library.unt.edu> <3g14ob$5jp@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <3k2u6g$jsc@newshost.uslink.net>
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In article <3k2u6g$jsc@newshost.uslink.net>, kidkaos@uslink.net (pete hanson) writes:
> kcurr@cyberspace.com (Kaycee Curr) wrote:
>>In article <lhellwi.7.00DF7764@interaccess.com>, lhellwi@interaccess.com
>>(Lisa Stalnaker Hellwig) wrote:
>>
>>> According to Organic Gardening, putting them in the windowsill just makes
>>> them mushy.  They say to put them in a paper bag.
>>
>>What I found works even better for me is wrapping them individually with
>>paper towels so that they don't touch each other. (Later the paper towels
>>can be used to do household chores or something, so that it's not a
>>complete waste). Then put them in the paper bag. I check them every day
>>still- you know what they say about one bad apple!  :)

>   We use half an apple or a whole apple in a box of under ripe tomatoes. 
 Set in shade (home, car etc)
> keep around 80 -85 degrees.  Will ripen in a couple of days :)  
The apple produces a special
> chemical that  causes the tomatoes to ripen faster.  In fact when 
tomatoes are picked green in the fields
> a very similar gas is used in trucks as they speed off to 
supermarkets...or so I've been told...
> Anyway the apple speeds up the process :)
>                                                                                 k
The paper bag does indeed speed up the reddening of tomatoes by
capturing a gaseous plant hormone, ethylene, given off by ripening
fruits (among many plant parts).   Ethylene is also given off
by apples in considerable amounts, so apple + green tomato -->
red tomato + apple also works.

However, even if tomatoes are reddened by ethylene, they still
probably aren't ripe.  The ripening process involves the 
hydrolysis of stored starch to sugars (sweetening the fruit
and changing the consistency), loosening of cell walls, also
changing consistency, and formation of several types of molecules
that will flavor a tomato.  That's why store tomatoes, even
the reddest, rarely have a flavor beyond wet cardboard... they
were picked green and artificially reddened with ethylene.  

Ah well... only another 3 or 4 months before REAL tomatoes are
available around here again!  :-)

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu



From tkelsey@pacifier.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:14 EST 1995
Article: 58489 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!news.alpha.net!pacifier!tkelsey
From: tkelsey@pacifier.com (Terra Kelsey)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: star jasmine care
Date: 14 Mar 1995 06:01:52 GMT
Organization: Pacifier, a public access Internet site.  (206-693-0325)
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I need advice on caring for a star jasmine bush.  I live in the
Pacific Northwest , near Portland, Oregon, zone 7, and have carefully
overwintered this warm-tempered lovely indoors on a cool back porch.  
It's losing it's leaves; do I prune the twigs back or fertilize, or
leave it alone?  Any suggestions appreciated!


--
---
pacifier.com - Vancouver's Public access Internet (206) 693-0325
telnet or dial the above and type "new" at the prompt to register


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:15 EST 1995
Article: 58490 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: ?Water Lilies in Vermont
Message-ID: <1995Mar13.235207.40182@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 95 23:52:07 -0600
References: <3k32dp$s62$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
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In article <3k32dp$s62$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, Bob Bland <72674.2043@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> I have a boggy area in front of my house in which I would like to 
> plant some flowering plants. This area has an apparently constant 
> slow flow of water throughout the year, even in winter, if this 
> mild one just passing is an indicator. There is no surface 
> water, except where I have dug trenches and there it fluctuates 
> by about 3" but never goes dry. The area gets full sun for the 
> most part. I am thinking of water lilies in some of the 
> shallow ponds (6-12") I am making and would like to share the 
> experience of others in northern (zone 4a) climates. Also, are 
> there other flowering bog plants or ones with interesting foliage 
> that might do well here.

You might consider a bog garden with native species like Iris
virginica, Mimulus glabratus (yellow monkey flower), Cephalanthus
occidentalis (button bush), some of the Ranunculus species (crow-
foot; buttercup), Parnassia (grass of parnassus), etc., etc.
Many ferns and lycopodiums like "wet feet" also.

Kay Klier  klier@cobra.uni.edu 


From rosepark@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:19 EST 1995
Article: 58491 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: rosepark@ix.netcom.com (ELIZABETH GEPPERT)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: One more Clematis question
Date: 14 Mar 1995 06:18:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Last year during an unusually hot spell three of my favorite clematis vines wilted
and died to the ground.  I was heartbroken.  Since then I have read up on Clematis
Wilt.  The experts seem to blame an evil microorganism.  I am not altogether 
convinced though.  In my yard I have about twelve clematis vines and the only ones
that wilted were trellised against a south facing brick wall.  Could it have been
the heat of the bricks?  Those three vines have come up from the roots and are
starting to grow now.  Should I move them?  Is now a good time? Is there a way
to prevent this from happening again?


>



From dsimpson@cet.fsu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:20 EST 1995
Article: 58492 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!mailer.fsu.edu!dsimpson.cet.fsu.edu!dsimpson
From: Deb Simpson <dsimpson@cet.fsu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: compost tumbler?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 15:52:24 GMT
Organization: Florida State University
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Three hundred dollars is a bit much to pay for something you can make for
free.  I've also rec'd those brochures, and it looks like it would be
easier with this device, but hey, it's still just dirt --excellent dirt--
but still dirt.  I continue to maintain my own heap of wire mesh with
frequent 'stirrings' and lots of kitchen wastes in little bitty pieces.


From gresh@watson.ibm.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:22 EST 1995
Article: 58493 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!hursley.ibm.com!aixssc.uk.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!gresh
From: gresh@watson.ibm.com (donna gresh)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: tuberous begonias; which side goes up?
Date: 10 Mar 1995 23:19:48 GMT
Organization: Data Explorer Software Development, IBM Corporation
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I bought some tuberous begonia tubers yesterday, and
after I got home I realized I'd forgotten to ask which way
they go; I have done this before, but always forget by
the following spring. I put them in dent side up, as that
seemed to make the most sense. Do I have to dig em up
and try again?

-- 

Donna Gresh


From jstier@yu1.yu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:23 EST 1995
Article: 58494 of rec.gardens
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From: Jeff Stier <jstier@yu1.yu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: When to plant tomatoes
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 15:09:51 -0500
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
Lines: 18
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> I start my seeds indoors at 8-10 weeks before the last frost date (May 15 here)

Did you mean March 15? Where are you?
> After this I just plant them in my garden and give a good dose of 1/2 strength
> fertilizer.  I water about a gallon a plant once a week if we do not have rain
> and give 1/2 strength fertilizer every 2 to 3 weeks.  This is the way I grow
> all of my vegetables that I start indoors.

Is that because full strength fertilizer will give too much leaf growth?
I can't WAIT to get started! I think activity will increase on this 
newsgroup with the warm weather in NYC area!
******************************************************************************
Jeff Stier
jstier@yu1.yu.edu
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




From cheryln@stortek.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:24 EST 1995
Article: 58495 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!stortek!cheryln
From: cheryln@stortek.com (Cheryl Netter x3449)
Subject: Re: Guinea Pig poo as fertilizer?
Message-ID: <D5FsxA.4vA@stortek.com>
Sender: news@stortek.com
Organization: Storage Technology
References: <3k0lbq$gro@potogold.rmii.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 15:41:33 GMT
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In article <3k0lbq$gro@potogold.rmii.com> Steve Zerbe <sazerb@rmii.com> writes:
>   Someone earlier was discussing rabbit manure as compost.  My 
> situation is that we have guinea pigs (5) that I would like to
> move outdoors on warm days in my yard.  I have a 4x4 box with no
> bottom and a piece of plywood that partially covers the top.  So
> they are free to run around the box and eat grass during the day.
> My question is this:  Is their manure going to be okay for the
> grass in my yard?  They are being fed a pellet mixture of soybean
> meal, alfalfa meal and various other incredients mixed with crushed
> corn.  I also give them a _little_ lettuce from time to time.
>    I also intend to move the box a few inches every day so it won't
> make permanent dents in what little lawn I have!  
>
>      Julie

Boy, does this take me back, oh say, about 25 years. I only had
two guinea pigs, that I'd corral with a large crate out in the
grass on nice days. The crate was moved several times a day, since
the pigs would mow the grass right down. The spots in the lawn
where the pigs had been grew really green.

I suspect you may have to move box more often than a few inches
a day since guinea pigs like grass so much.

cheryl
cheryln@redwood.stortek.com
USDA zone 4 Golden Co




From sue1@arch4.ho.att.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:26 EST 1995
Article: 58496 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!gw1.att.com!nntpa!not-for-mail
From: sue1@arch4.ho.att.com ()
Subject: WHAT IS THIS PEST ON THE TREES??
Message-ID: <D5FqLG.4F1@nntpa.cb.att.com>
Followup-To: sue1@arch4.ho.att.com
Sender: news@nntpa.cb.att.com (Netnews Administration)
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I'm in Zone 6 (Central NJ) and for the past few years many of the trees in 
the back yard (which borders on woods) had this pest that would grow on the
leaves in late spring/early summer.  They are round blobs, about 1/4 to 
1/2 inch diameter, colors range from yellow to orange to red, and they 
are shiny. 

I was planning to spray the trees with some horticultural oil in hopes 
of killing  these pests before they emerge.  Someone posted here recently
saying that this spray should be used 10 days before the eggs hatch...
Now I'm confused... I don't know what these pests really are and I 
would like to NOT have to look at these gross little critters all summer.
When should I spray?  Is horticultural oil the right thing to use?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Susan


From janeb@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:27 EST 1995
Article: 58497 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: janeb@ix.netcom.com (Jane Bergen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Wayside Gardens=Park Seed?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 06:34:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k3ddb$k0v@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <1995Mar13.154353.11366@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dfw3-04.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
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In <1995Mar13.154353.11366@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil> welshg@rl.af.mil (Glenn T. Welsh) writes: 

>
>Prices to high! Quality too low. That's my experience. But they have great 
>pictures to help you through the winter! 
>
>Glenn 
>
I just received my order of three Clematis plants from Park and the instructions they
included said something about Wayside gardens. Is Park a subsidiary/parent of Wayside
or do they get their plants from Wayside? Inquiring minds want to know......

Jane Bergen




From bparker@leo.vsla.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:28 EST 1995
Article: 58498 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!leo.vsla.edu!bparker
From: bparker@leo.vsla.edu (Bonnie Parker)
Subject: PEONIES
Message-ID: <1995Mar14.161358.4983@leo.vsla.edu>
Organization: Virginia State Library
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 16:13:58 GMT
Lines: 2
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I planted peonies several years ago.  They come up every year,
but never bloom.  What am I doing wrong?  (I'm in zone 7)


From steven@rain.org Thu Mar 16 00:41:29 EST 1995
Article: 58499 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.rain.org!coyote.rain.org!steven
From: steven@rain.org ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bird feeder without weeds?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 06:37:45 GMT
Organization: Steven Reynolds at RAIN, Santa Barbara, CA
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3k3djp$cuk@news.rain.org>
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If you don't want the seeds to germinate, try what's known as a 
"pre-seeder weeder."  It comes in a granulated form that you sprinkle 
onto the soil, work in, and it prevents seeds from germinating.  It's 
great, but if you're vegetable gardening, don't plant any seeds directly 
where you scattered the pre-emergent or you'll get nothing!  It will not 
harm existing plants, however.  A good brand to get is Eptan 
Pre-Emergent.  Good luck.

--


                 _______________________________________________
                |                                               |
                |    Steven A. Reynolds    Santa Barbara, CA    | 
                |    steven@rain.org       Amateur Radio: AA6OT |
                |_______________________________________________|


From steven@rain.org Thu Mar 16 00:41:30 EST 1995
Article: 58500 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.rain.org!coyote.rain.org!steven
From: steven@rain.org ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: california storm
Date: 14 Mar 1995 06:44:03 GMT
Organization: RAIN Public Access Internet (805) 967-RAIN
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Message-ID: <3k3dvj$cuk@news.rain.org>
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No damage to my garden but the nursery I manage got flooded for the 
second time this year!  I'm sure getting sick and tired of cleaning up!  
The second flood (or "The Flood II" as my employees call it) was not as 
bad as January, only 4" of water and mud instead of 16" in Jan.  My 
Citrus are under about 3" of water now but they're young and can handle 
it.  I worry when it gets so windy because the soil is so saturated and 
the citrus are easily uprooted.  They're hanging in there!

--


                 _______________________________________________
                |                                               |
                |    Steven A. Reynolds    Santa Barbara, CA    | 
                |    steven@rain.org       Amateur Radio: AA6OT |
                |_______________________________________________|


From macrakis@osf.org Thu Mar 16 00:41:32 EST 1995
Article: 58501 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!paperboy.osf.org!usenet
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Annuals available at local nurseries (was: What are you growing from seed?)
Date: 14 Mar 1995 16:08:03 GMT
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <MACRAKIS.95Mar14110803@lakatos.osf.org>
References: <1995Mar9.173325.1@jaguar.uofs.edu> <3jr3sa$pv4@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lakatos.osf.org
In-reply-to: grnthm@aol.com's message of 10 Mar 1995 22:02:34 -0500
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In article <3jr3sa$pv4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> grnthm@aol.com (GrnThm) writes:

   [re] limited variety of annuals at local nurseries - like
   everything else, they go for lowest common denominator - whatever
   "gardeners" (homeowners) can plant that are the hardiest and
   easiest to maintain...

One of the books I've been reading on seed starting points out that
what nurseries sell for planting out has to look nice _at the time
they sell it_.  You very often see annuals with flowers already open
at such garden centers, where what you really want is a plant that
will flower well after you plant it!

	-s


From nessonm@ava.bcc.orst.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:33 EST 1995
Article: 58502 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!UB.com!wetware!wsrcc.com!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!ava.bcc.orst.edu!nessonm
From: nessonm@ava.bcc.orst.edu (Mike Nesson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Hormodin rooting powder
Date: 13 Mar 1995 22:49:05 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon
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"Charley's Greenhouse Supply" has the three Hormodin strength rooting preps
available in 4 oz sizes, as well as a set of all three in 4 oz size for under
$10.  Charley's address is: 1569 Memorial Highway
			    Mt. Vernon, WA 98273
			    Phone: 1-800-322-4707
			    Catalog $2.00

I've no connection with them, but I called an order in recently.
Mike Nesson

-- 
    
   _______________________________________________________________________ 
   Michael Nesson  nessonm@bcc.orst.edu  (503)737-1866   FAX:(503)737-0481   
      Dept. of Biochem/Biophys., AgLS 2011, Oregon State University 


From wham108550@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:34 EST 1995
Article: 58503 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: wham108550@aol.com (Wham108550)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: HELP WITH WHITE FLYS I THINK
Date: 14 Mar 1995 11:23:00 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I had the same trouble last year and solve the problem the old fashion way
... I got a predator to eat them.  Put a couple of small spiders on the
Plants and they had a munch fest.  Just gotta be sure to clean the webbing
off before using but this method saved my Basil and Sage plants.


From donna_menk@radian.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:35 EST 1995
Article: 58504 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!news.radian.com.!dlmenk-65474.radian.com!donna_menk
From: donna_menk@radian.com (Menk, Donna)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christine Owens postings
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 10:52:42
Organization: Radian Corporation, Austin, TX, USA
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <donna_menk.264.2F65C9B8@radian.com>
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In article <3jvhtv$2le@nntp.interaccess.com> June Meyer <june4@interaccess.com> writes:
>From: June Meyer <june4@interaccess.com>
>Subject: Re: Christine Owens postings
>Date: 12 Mar 1995 19:26:55 GMT

>In article <grumbo.347.012C7C64@niagara.com> Ian, grumbo@niagara.com
>writes:
>>I am impressed Christine.. U had an answer for EVERYONE ;^}


>I learned more from Christine's multi postings than I did in a semester
>of study. Thanks Christine.

I second this! Clear, concise, useful responses--good job, Christine!


From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:37 EST 1995
Article: 58506 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!hookup!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Source for Enkianthus cernuus rubens & E.deflexus
Date: 14 Mar 1995 17:05:58 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 6
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Do any of you fine people out there know of a source for the small
tree/shrubs Enkianthus cernuus rubens or Enkianthus deflexus?  I have
seen some ads for E. campanulatus, but not the others.  Post reply
or e-mail.  Thanks in advance.
Don Martinson
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu


From gfeir@omni.voicenet.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:38 EST 1995
Article: 58507 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!usenet
From: Glenna Feir <gfeir@omni.voicenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: BUCKS COUNTY-PA  -  When to plant peas?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 16:29:57 GMT
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We've just moved to Bucks County and I'd like to try planting some
snow peas and sugar snap peas. I know they have to be planted early, 
but how early? Should they be started indoors?

I'd also need advice on things like which annuals do well here, and 
general gardening advice for this area.

Thanks for any help.        Glenna


From macrakis@osf.org Thu Mar 16 00:41:39 EST 1995
Article: 58508 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!hobbes.cc.uga.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!paperboy.osf.org!usenet
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Edible? Brown Garden Snails
Date: 14 Mar 1995 17:19:08 GMT
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <MACRAKIS.95Mar14121908@lakatos.osf.org>
References: <3jlj78$pcf@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3jnrlj$opj@netaxs.com>
	<3jnsva$c2p@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3k2g4j$m1v@risc.agsm.ucla.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lakatos.osf.org
In-reply-to: aramirez@agsm.ucla.edu's message of 13 Mar 1995 14:14:43 -0800
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cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens) writes:

   >These snails are edible, but they are NOT the snails used in escargot!
   >Besides which, preparing snails for eating is a LOT of work....

In article <3k2g4j$m1v@risc.agsm.ucla.edu> aramirez@agsm.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:

   ...I also recall reading... that somebody in N. Cal was collecting
   these then marketing them as escargot.

   You are right about it being a lot of work to prepare them for the
   table.  I recall that it involves putting them into corn meal for
   several days, to flush out all the poisons....

Many varieties of snails are good to eat.  The most common one is Helix
pomatia, which lives on grape vines (among other things).  It is no
accident that snails are popular in wine-producing areas like France and
Italy!

There is a book you might want to consult (I haven't seen it, but found it
in a library catalogue): Escargots from your garden to your table, by
Francois Picart.  Published by F. Picart Snails, Santa Rosa, CA.

It is absolutely not true that preparing snails for eating is a lot of
work.  You just collect them, wash them, and throw them in a barrel with
some cornmeal.  A week later, they're ready to cook.  They have the handy
habit of sealing themselves up and going dormant for long times, so you can
keep them without spoilage for months.  After you cook them, you can serve
them in the shell.  There are various tricks for getting the meat out; the
one my father learned as a child in Crete was to crack open the small end
like a soft-boiled egg and twist the meat out with a toothpick or fork
tine.  More elegant service involves removing the meat in the kitchen, and
putting it back in before serving it.  That indeed requires more work, but
is completely unnecessary -- it is just a little luxury.

I'm not sure what COwens means by "they are NOT the snails used in
escargot".  "Escargot" is simply the French word for "snail".  As I said
above, several varieties of snail are used for snail dishes in France,
although the "petit gris" is probably the most popular.  No doubt there are
other edible snails (or "escargots" if you prefer) that would work just
fine in snail cookery.

Or perhaps the word "escargot" is now being used as a marketing term for
"snail", the way squid is called "calamari" on many menus?  Or is it being
abused like "scampi", to mean a kind of preparation?  "Scampi" are a kind
of shellfish found in the Adriatic, something like crayfish; in the US, it
is often misused to mean "shrimp with garlic and oil"; you see such
solecisms as "shimp scampi".  You might as well talk about "mushrooms
champignons" or "peas petit pois" or ... "snails escargots".

	-s


From pattibelle@delphi.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:40 EST 1995
Article: 58509 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: PATTIBELLE <pattibelle@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Deer and Fences
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 02:27:51 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 11
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Deer jump fences and walk up driveways and on gravel pathways.  Many
people love deer and would rather see them than exclude them.  My neighbor,
for instance, mows his weeds and feeds birds like mad.  The deer walk
into his back yard and eat the birdseed.  I've fenced them out on that
side, but they jump the other two fences on my property.  I don't think
however, that deer would jump a series of fences where everybody agrees
to fence, but you have deer lovers and deer haters (gardeners).  Down
at Pebble Beach, CA they feed birth control pills to the does (I'm NOT
kidding).
 
Pat in Napa, CA


From slbailey@bu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:42 EST 1995
Article: 58510 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!salliemae!uunet!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!purdue!news.bu.edu!slbailey
From: slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey)
Newsgroups: news.config,news.groups,misc.consumers,misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Propose new group: alt.living.tightwad
Followup-To: news.config,news.groups,misc.consumers,misc.rural,rec.gardens
Date: 14 Mar 1995 17:30:41 GMT
Organization: Boston University
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Message-ID: <3k4js1$mfc@news.bu.edu>
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I will say this -- I subscribed to MAXLIFE and I'm disappointed.  I'm getting
digests and I have gotten I think five since Saturday (That's less than three
full days). They are more chatty than newsgroups are, and the topics so far
are NOT anything to do with frugal living.  I don't have time for busy
listservs that fill up my mailbox (and server) with junk I'm not interested in
-- newsgroups I can go to when I have time and subject-search to find only the
topics I want to bother with. Digests and e-mail FORCE you to scan EVERYTHING
or nothing. I'm dumping the list -- it's not for me.

I sympathize with the people who think listservs are a way to test an idea
before launching a new group, but when in such a short time so many people
enthusiastically endorse an idea, *I* think that in itself is a test, and I
wonder if those who like the e-mail delivery have other agendas, like monetary
issues.  (OK for them, irrelevant to me.)

I think a proposal for a misc.frugal newsgroup would be sensible, and I'd
subscribe. (And plead that people stay on-topic and give good subject lines!)

Sherry


From drlkrns@sdrc.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:43 EST 1995
Article: 58511 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!psinntp!sdrc.com!sdrc.com!drlkrns
From: drlkrns@sdrc.com (lisa kerns)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Odd Trenches in Lawn?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 15:35:57 GMT
Organization: SDRC
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Help!

Last fall, I found somethng odd in the lawn. There was a trench
about an inch to two inches wide, and about an inch or two deep,
perfectly square, dug from the compost bin to the garden shed
(about a foot distance).

I thought "Gee, that's odd. Probably run-off water from the bin."

Snow came, then left a few weeks ago and OHHH NOOO!!! Trenches
coming out from the the garden shed all over!!! What ARE these
things? They don't look like mole tunnels, they've got no tops
on them.  They're just tiny trenches and the soil under the shed
seems all dug up. 

They are definately not chipmunks; I have them too and I know
what their holes look like. So what is doing this? 

=====================================================================
|    Lisa M. Kerns      e-mail: lisa.kerns@sdrc.com                 |  
|                                                                   |
| Structural Dynamics Research Corporation   Cincinnati, OH         | 
| My employer cannot be held responsible for my correspondence ...  |
| They'd probably deny that I was employed here anyway.             |
=====================================================================



From nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca Thu Mar 16 00:41:44 EST 1995
Article: 58512 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!news.mindlink.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!nadine
From: nadine@seymour.ucs.ualberta.ca (Nadine Leenders)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Cold Frames - Glass or Plastic
Date: 14 Mar 1995 17:29:38 GMT
Organization: Computing and Network Services, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
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It is finally getting warm enough here for me to try constructing
my first cold frame.  I'm going to use my kids' large sandbox for
the base.  My question is, can I get away with using some kind of
plastic (preferably cheap stuff) instead of glass for the top?

--

Nadine Leenders                    | nadine.leenders@ualberta.ca
Computing and Network Services     | (403) 492-9349
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada   T6G 2H1



From handerso@cks.ssd.k12.wa.us Thu Mar 16 00:41:46 EST 1995
Article: 58513 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!cks.ssd.k12.wa.us!cks.ssd.k12.wa.us!not-for-mail
From: handerso@cks.ssd.k12.wa.us (Helen Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seattle soils (was: Re: Need help with Seattle herb garden...)
Date: 13 Mar 1995 23:23:10 -0800
Organization: Seattle Public Schools
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <3k3g8u$477@cks.ssd.k12.wa.us>
References: <3jl8a0$fck@gtenmo1.nmo.gtegsc.com> <3k25eg$dp7@news.halcyon.com> <allyn-1303952102380001@psaltery.chem.washington.edu>
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: there is _real_ clay, I've yet to see any around here...if you can't make

I believe it is mostly private property but try looking where the old
brick plant used to be, south of Spokane Street.  They mined the area east
of what is now I-5.
Don Anderson


From konlen@eua.ericsson.se Thu Mar 16 00:41:47 EST 1995
Article: 58514 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!sunic.sunet.se!erinews.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!euax3i1c07!konlen
From: konlen@eua.ericsson.se (Lena Bolander)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: clay soil + compost = adobe ???
Date: 14 Mar 1995 07:50:10 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k3hrj$1ql@euas20.eua.ericsson.se>
References: <3k2fce$4ek@fitzherbert.pavilion.co.uk>
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In article 4ek@fitzherbert.pavilion.co.uk, nightjar@pavilion.co.uk (nightjar) writes:
> 
> Adding organic matter is not always the answer. On poorly drained soils it actually
> decreases fertility - turning the soil anaerobic and sour. The way to check drainage
> is to dig a hole about 2 feet deep when the soil is moist. Fill the hole with water and
> if most of it is still there next day you should think seriously about sub-soil drains.
> 

As Colin says the draining might be bad. This quite common with heavy clay which
have been packed by use of heavy machines on top of it. When plowing only the top
layer gets turned. The layer beneath is getting harder and harder. This is also
way rototilliers not are very good to use on heavy clay. 
In order to correct this you need deep digging. Of course there may also be bad
drainage which need to be corrected sub-soil drains but there may also be just 
enough with som digging.
In order not to pack the clay  you might make beds which you reach over without
stepping on them an which you keep at the same place from year to year. Then you
do not need the heavy work of digging each autumn.
I use this method myself together with covering the soil with grassclippings during
the growing season.

/Lena 



From dornsj@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:49 EST 1995
Article: 58515 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.Vanderbilt.Edu!dial008.Vanderbilt.Edu!dornsj
From: dornsj@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Sherman Dorn)
Subject: Re: Red earthworms
Message-ID: <dornsj.59.000904D0@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu>
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 15:01:04 GMT
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3jpkuh$dp2@taurus.fccc.edu> John Bouck <bouck@retro2.fccc.edu> writes:

>I just ordered 500 red earthworms from Garden Alive.  I am assuming that
>the worms will really survive to improve my garden.  Do they really
>survive in the garden once released?  Any suggestions for better survival?

Redworms primarily feed on organic matter, which means that most gardens will 
not be able to sustain them.  It's a pretty expensive source of nitrogen to 
just put your worms in the garden.

I'd recommend, instead, starting a worm bin and use the worms to compost 
kitchen waste.  Get Mary Appelhof's book, WORMS EAT MY GARBAGE, for help.

____________
Sherman Dorn
Vanderbilt University 
dornsj@ctrvax.vanderbilt


From nr5@prism.gatech.edu Thu Mar 16 00:41:50 EST 1995
Article: 58516 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!gt-news!prism!prism!not-for-mail
From: nr5@prism.gatech.edu (Nita Richard)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Help designing flower beds
Date: 14 Mar 1995 12:42:19 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
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Sender: nr5@prism.gatech.edu
Message-ID: <3k4khr$9gf@acmey.gatech.edu>
References: <3k2k5c$8k2@ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov> <3k4bn4$d9h@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
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You could duplicate the flower gardens pictured in garden catalogs
like Springhill.  They frequently have diagrams showing the layout and
list the plants to be included.  You don't have to buy their plants
(I personally don't like Springhill) but you can sure take advantage of
the flowerbed diagrams they put in their catalogs!  Or then again you can
do as I do and just plant what plants give me the "warm fuzzies" and be
done with it.   Just a thought.

-- 
Nita Richard 
Georgia Institute of Technology, "Home of the 1996 Olympic Village"             Atlanta Georgia, 30332-0181
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!nr5
Internet: nita.richard@vpea.gatech.edu (404)853-0050


From bbneely@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:52 EST 1995
Article: 58517 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: bbneely@aol.com (BBNeely)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Rookie needs help
Date: 14 Mar 1995 12:28:50 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: bbneely@aol.com (BBNeely)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To Rookie in Houston:  Check with your county extension service.  They can

tell you what vegetables will grow best in your area.


From wrweichel@ccgate.dp.beckman.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:54 EST 1995
Article: 58518 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!inet.dp.beckman.com!weichel!wrweichel
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: sow bugs/pill bugs
Message-ID: <wrweichel.19.0008A3E3@ccgate.dp.beckman.com>
From: wrweichel@ccgate.dp.beckman.com (Wayne Weichel)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:38:21
References: <3ituai$328@monk.austin.cc.tx.us> <3j39m3$6l4@clam.rutgers.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: Beckman Instruments, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 134.217.42.153
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In article <3j39m3$6l4@clam.rutgers.edu> cev@clam.rutgers.edu (Cara Vandy) writes:

>cddunn@monk.austin.cc.tx.us (charles dunn) writes:

>>Does anyone know of an ORGANIC remedy for pill bugs?

>        why a remedy?  What do they do to the gardens?  (I always thought 
>they were kind of cute)
>                        CEV

They've munched down many a new seedling in my garden.  Once plants are 
established the pill bugs don't seem to do any deadly damage, but they take 
cosmetically distasteful bites out of root crops like radishes and carrots.

Wayne


From bbneely@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:55 EST 1995
Article: 58519 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: bbneely@aol.com (BBNeely)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Rookie needs help
Date: 14 Mar 1995 12:29:01 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 3
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3k4jot$2lq@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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Reply-To: bbneely@aol.com (BBNeely)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To Rookie in Houston:  Contact your county extension service for
information 
on plants that grow best in your area.  Good luck!


From bbneely@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:57 EST 1995
Article: 58520 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: bbneely@aol.com (BBNeely)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Need help in Mississippi
Date: 14 Mar 1995 12:29:02 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Reply-To: bbneely@aol.com (BBNeely)
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I would like to converse with other gardeners in the Deep South.  I am
interested in native plants and trees for the garden.  I need help with my
Louisiana iris.  I have tried everything but they stiill do not bloom
well.


From bbneely@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:41:58 EST 1995
Article: 58521 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: bbneely@aol.com (BBNeely)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Rookie needs help
Date: 14 Mar 1995 12:29:02 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To Rookie in Houston:  Contact your county extension service for
information
about plants that grow best in your area.


From gaillimh@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:00 EST 1995
Article: 58522 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: gaillimh@aol.com (Gaillimh)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Horse Manure-Wood Shavings-Good for Gardens?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 12:30:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 3
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Reply-To: gaillimh@aol.com (Gaillimh)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
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Please don't tell me horse manure is a poor fertilizer! I've been
stockpiling it for weeks now. What's wrong with it. How does one compost
it properly to maintain the nitrogen level?


From normaw@hannah.mfg.sgi.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:02 EST 1995
Article: 58523 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!murrow.corp.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!news
From: Norma Walling <normaw@hannah.mfg.sgi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: One more Clematis question
Date: 14 Mar 1995 17:33:43 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA
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rosepark@ix.netcom.com (ELIZABETH GEPPERT) wrote:
>
> Last year during an unusually hot spell three of my favorite clematis vines wilted
> and died to the ground.  I was heartbroken.  Since then I have read up on Clematis
> Wilt.  The experts seem to blame an evil microorganism.  I am not altogether 
> convinced though.  In my yard I have about twelve clematis vines and the only ones
> that wilted were trellised against a south facing brick wall.  Could it have been
> the heat of the bricks?  Those three vines have come up from the roots and are
> starting to grow now.  Should I move them?  Is now a good time? Is there a way
> to prevent this from happening again?
> 
> 
> >
> 

Clematis really like to have cool roots so maybe 4 to 6 inches of 
mulch might help them out!




From handerso@cks.ssd.k12.wa.us Thu Mar 16 00:42:03 EST 1995
Article: 58524 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!alfa02.medio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!cks.ssd.k12.wa.us!cks.ssd.k12.wa.us!not-for-mail
From: handerso@cks.ssd.k12.wa.us (Helen Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Rampant Bamboo Invader?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 00:17:34 -0800
Organization: Seattle Public Schools
Lines: 17
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I was "given" a clump of bamboo about 8 years ago.  It is about 10-15 feet
tall, growing in an area of fairly poor soil and  doing just fine
without any help from me. I used to like but it acts too much like a weed.
: 2)      The rampant spreading of bamboo is all in proportion to the area it has been planted in: back yards in city lots versus estates or farms with acreage
Half way across my yard into the bluberries and constantly poping up in my
and my neighbors grass.
: 3)      Ignorance is not bliss for gardeners! Stupid mistakes cause waste of time and problems later. There are over 1,000 species of bamboo (and about 100 kinds fairly obtainable in USA). Literally, there is a bamboo for every planting situation. Plant
Right, this stuff needs to be planted in a cast iron bath tub and checked
for escapement  every day.
 the right kind. For more information about bamboo contact me or the American Bamboo Society, P.O. Box 215, Slingerlands, NY 12159-0215
Tell me how to disolve the runners.  

: 5)      There are many people who would gladly have the opporunity to dig out an unwanted bamboo grove, if only they knew about it and that it was a species they desired.

That's how I made my mistake.  I dug it out of elses yard. Come and get it.

Don Anderson


From kiewicz@oeonline.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:04 EST 1995
Article: 58525 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!m-net!netmeg!oeonline!kiewicz
From: kiewicz@oeonline.com (Pat and George Kiewicz)
Subject: Re: Mushy Vegetables
Organization: Observer & Eccentric News  Livonia, MI
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 14:36:17 GMT
Message-ID: <D58B8I.9rH@oeonline.com>
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klier@cobra.uni.edu wrote:
: In article <D54xB3.9v1@anasazi.com>, naomi@anasazi.com (Naomi Walker) writes:
: > 
: > 
: > I believe we've talked about this before, but I need a reminder.  I
: > have been very successful growing carrots and celery this winter.  
: > When I harvest them, I bring them in the house, wash and dry them,
: > and put them in the refrigerator in those new "vegetable" bags (plastic
: > bags with little air holes).  
: > 
: > Even though the vegetables are quite crisp coming out of the garden,
: > they get rubbery in the house.  Anyone have any suggestions?

: They're getting rubbery as they loose water.  Try a regular ziplock
: bag or a "tupperware"-type container.  Soak the carrots and celery
: sticks in plain water for an hour before you use them if the problem
: persists.

I store the bulk of my carrot harvest for months in the 'fridge.  I
harvest in late fall, soak the carrots in cold water, rinse and dry
them (I have several huge, old bath towels that I've saved for such
uses), sort them by size (removing any damaged ones for immediate
use), them pack them in regular 1-gallon plastic bags.  In each bag
I put a couple of sheets of dry paper towels.  I check the bags after
24 hours and occasionally have to add another towel if a bag seems
particularly moist.  The carrots will keep a long, long time.

I do the same thing with half my parsnips (the other half spend
winter in the garden).  The parsnips don't last as long as the 
carrots, but they will hold until I can start digging  out the 
parsnips in the garden in early April. 

Pat in Plymouth MI
-- 
                           ====================
        We do not speak for the Suburban Communications Corporation.
	The Suburban Communications Corporation does not speak for us.



From slbailey@bu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:06 EST 1995
Article: 58526 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!purdue!news.bu.edu!slbailey
From: slbailey@bu.edu (Sherry Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: are wildflowers do-able in nice neighborhood?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 17:41:33 GMT
Organization: Boston University
Lines: 36
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Message-ID: <3k4kgd$mfc@news.bu.edu>
References: <D579r8.J4I@freenet.carleton.ca> <3k0b6a$j8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3k0cs1$30n@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
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I tried it and all I can say is that it's a LOT more work than it looks and a
lot more work (and or money) than a standard garden.  I thnk everybody
fanticizes about those pretty farmer's fields that have bachelor buttons and
queen anne's lace and rudbekia all in bloom togehter, effortlessly -- but
that's not what happens.  

Read the catalogs for wildflower seeds CAREFULLY and you will find that the
gorgeous pictures you see are usually of annuals -- planted fresh with fresh
seed EVERY YEAR. If you have a large area, you can't rely on re-seeding, and
besides, you have to prevent weeds fromt aking over, so it's prep time every
spring!  Getting perennial wildflowers to bloom reliably over a large area and
in succession (remember they have shorter bloom times than annuals) is as much
or more work than planting standard plants -- in fact, in a way it IS planting
standard plants. Everything that isn't a hybrid was once wild, after all, and
if it grows in your zone it probably is native there or to similar areas. So
stuff like rudbekia is grown both by wildflower enthusiasts and regular
gardeners.  

I planted a meadow mix, and it looked pretty the first year when the annuals
came up, but pretty sparse and not very "meadowlike".  The next year all I got
were a couple of perennials and biennaials, and they were VERY sparse.
Nothing reseeded at all. I have to do that with fresh store bought seed
myself. I interplanted some daisies and things started indoors, and it's
starting to hold it's own, but it's more effort to keep looking nice than the
more carefully planned and planted "real" garden.  I'm glad I didn't do my
whole side yard that way as I had considered.

Experiences vary, but I think my expectations were typical, and my results (in
Zone 5) not atypical, so I offer this as warning -- don't make assumptions
about this, you may regret them later!

Goos luck if you choose to try it -=- I suggest you start with a small patch
and remember it takes two or three years to see what is REALLY going to
happen. (Unless you want to spend a few hundred dollars a year in seed!)

Sherry


From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:07 EST 1995
Article: 58527 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Wayside Gardens=Park Seed?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 17:56:58 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3k4lda$akf@post.its.mcw.edu>
References: <1995Mar13.154353.11366@news.rlcn.rl.af.mil> <3k3ddb$k0v@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac7.crc.mcw.edu
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janeb@ix.netcom.com (Jane Bergen) wrote:
>

> I just received my order of three Clematis plants from Park and the instructions they
> included said something about Wayside gardens. Is Park a subsidiary/parent of Wayside
> or do they get their plants from Wayside? Inquiring minds want to know......
> 
> Jane Bergen
> 
>Wayside Gardens and Park Seeds are indeed under the same ownership,
with Wayside specializing in plants and Park in seeds and a few plants.
Don Martinson
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu 



From gwv@sequoia.cray.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:09 EST 1995
Article: 58528 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!network.ucsd.edu!equalizer!timbuk.cray.com!driftwood.cray.com!gwv
From: gwv@sequoia.cray.com (George VandenBerghe)
Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?
Message-ID: <1995Mar14.104720.15006@driftwood.cray.com>
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References: <3jf76o$lj3@maze.dpo.uab.edu> <3jiof7$m6j@holly.cc.uleth.ca>
Date: 14 Mar 95 10:47:20 CST
Status: O
X-Status: 


In article <3jiof7$m6j@holly.cc.uleth.ca>, mckeen@hg.uleth.ca (Marg McKeen, Research Services, ext. 2747) writes:
> In article <3jf76o$lj3@maze.dpo.uab.edu>, comm034@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu (Wade Woodward) writes:
> >I just thought it would be interesting to hear what people have 
> >blooming in their neck of the woods. It is early March.
> 
> This is depressing...in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada we've had a fairly mild
> winter but it went down to -27 C last night and we have several inches of SNOW
> on the ground.  But the chinook's blowing in so it should be gone by tomorrow.
> (A chinook is a dry wind that blows anywhere from 40 km/hr to 100 km/hr and
> brings warm weather.  It can go from -20 C to +10 C in a number of hours,
> but more typically within several days.  As you can guess, it's rather hard
> on our plants.  It can be -10 to -20 C for a week or two, then +10 or so for
> another week or two, then back again to the deep freeze.)  Needless to say,
> nothing is blooming.  The tulips should be out sometime in April or May.
> 
> ZONE:  3A

    The Middle Atlantic Region (Washington DC)
where I live now is fairly temperate
and moderate except for the very hot
and humid summers.  Tallahassee Fl
where I used to live had more
extremes in spring.  Last frost
date in Tallahassee is sometime
in March or early April and 
hot humid summerlike weather
bringing everything into
rapid growth and tempting
the gardener to plant too early
often precedes the last frost.
Days around 30C and nights
around 20C for a week in March
are often followed by a night
or two of -2C  before the frost
free growing season begins
for good.  (April often
brings a lot of days 
with highs  20-25C and
lows 1-5C and I have seen
days over 32C followed
by nights around 5C for
a week at a time (1986 late
April)



From herbgrow@pipeline.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:10 EST 1995
Article: 58529 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail
From: herbgrow@pipeline.com (Wendy Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Herbs that grow in shade
Date: 14 Mar 1995 12:38:34 -0500
Organization: The Pipeline
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References: <1995Mar13.013914.27171@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pipe3.pipeline.com
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In rec.gardens lssac@luxor.latrobe.edu.au (Maryanne Todd) said: 
>Unfortunately, I've discovered it actually gets very little direct
sunlight  
>each day - about 1 hour direct, about 5 hours filtered (through the leaves
of a  
>silky oak) and the rest of the time rather dense shade. I'm not getting
rid of  
>the silky oak - a beautiful tree! - so, the question is - do any herbs
grow  
>well in shade, and if so, which ones! 
> 
>A list of herbs that are shade lovers or shade tolerant would be greatly  
>appreciated.  Any herb list would be appreciated, 
 
Don't give up on your dream! 
 
Two herbs that should thrive in the conditions you describe are 
sweet woodruff and lungwort. Both like shade and moist soil. 
 
Some other shade tolerant herbs that you could try in brighter 
parts of the garden include: 
     Angelica           Chervil             Ginseng 
     Sweet Cicily      Sweet Violets    Scented Geraniums 
     Most members of the Mint family (invasive) 
 
Perhaps you could trim some of the branches on the silky oak 
tree to thin it out a little and let in more light?  :-) 
-- 
Wendy                  |Free email herb plant & 
Harbor View Garden Co. |seed catalog available  
Herbgrow@pipeline.com  |Harbor@pipeline.com 


From yk@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk Thu Mar 16 00:42:12 EST 1995
Article: 58530 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!yama.mcc.ac.uk!keele!daresbury!s-crim1!yk
From: yk@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (Hi Everyone)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: How do you prevent rose leaves getting black dots?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 08:39:00 GMT
Organization: SERC Daresbury Lab, Warrington, U.K.
Lines: 7
Sender: yk@s-crim1 (Y. Khan)
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Keywords: roses
Status: O
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Hi

I would be very grateful if anyone out there could tell
 
me why my rose leaves get black dots and how I can prevent this from happening.

Thanks for any help.


From yk@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk Thu Mar 16 00:42:13 EST 1995
Article: 58531 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!yama.mcc.ac.uk!keele!daresbury!s-crim1!yk
From: yk@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (Hi)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: fragrant roses?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 08:40:25 GMT
Organization: SERC Daresbury Lab, Warrington, U.K.
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Keywords: roses
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Hi

Could anyone tell me what the most
fragrant roses are called?

Thanks for any help.



From yk@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk Thu Mar 16 00:42:15 EST 1995
Article: 58532 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!yama.mcc.ac.uk!keele!daresbury!s-crim1!yk
From: yk@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (Hi)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Conifers in the way
Date: 14 Mar 1995 08:42:48 GMT
Organization: SERC Daresbury Lab, Warrington, U.K.
Lines: 14
Sender: yk@s-crim1 (Y. Khan)
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k3ku8$3qg@mserv1.dl.ac.uk>
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Keywords: conifers
Status: O
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Hi

My garden has many conifers I therefore have a problem

of planting other plants in the garden.

Could someone advise me on what plants grow best in the vicinity

of many conifers.

Thanks for any help.





From psmith@superior.carleton.ca Thu Mar 16 00:42:16 EST 1995
Article: 58533 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!psmith
From: psmith@superior.carleton.ca (Peter Smith)
Subject: Re: LETTUCE GROWING
Message-ID: <psmith.795203775@superior>
Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Organization: Carleton University
References: <cbrossma-080395160948@130.13.28.233> <9503100218231622@southwest.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 17:56:15 GMT
Lines: 20
Status: O
X-Status: 

In <9503100218231622@southwest.org> jen.mayer@southwest.org (Jen Mayer) writes:

>CB> in an area which gets about 1/3 less sun (basically no direct sun
>CB> till 12:00 noon). Do you think this will help???

>The heat is just as hard on lettuce as the sun - they'll bolt just from 
>the heat... I'd probably consider planting some lettuce in a box or 
>barrel of some sort that can be brought inside during the hottest 
>months. Someone suggested growing lettuce in an old wheelbarrow and 
>wheeling it around the yard so that it only gets sun certain parts of 
>the day, but those really hot months I get here in Pasadena can't be 
>helped.

>There are varieties of lettuce that are more resistant to bolting, btw.

Plant in the shade of a taller plant, and irrigate regularly.  Plant
shade is cooler than artificial shade (eg:  cloth), due to
"evapotranspiration".  I think that is the word.

good luck


From cbrossma@advtech.uswest.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:17 EST 1995
Article: 58534 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!news.dell.com!tadpole.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!cherokee!NewsWatcher!user
From: cbrossma@advtech.uswest.com (Craig Brossman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Do I really need a light???
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 10:56:25 -0700
Organization: U S WEST Technologies
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.13.28.233
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 I too am planing on growing my vegtables from seed this year, but I have a
several great window sills to do it on. The get 5+ hours of direct light,
from 11-4, and filtered light otherwise. Do I really need to invest (time,
effort and money) in artificial light? or is this strong light at 5,400 ft.
(Colorado) sufficient?

-- 
Thanks ... Craig


From p_whitehead@icrf.icnet.uk Thu Mar 16 00:42:19 EST 1995
Article: 58535 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!charlie.lif.icnet.uk!mac054013.lif.icnet.uk!user
From: p_whitehead@icrf.icnet.uk (Phil Whitehead)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Can't wet my seed starting mix :(
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 16:25:16 +0000
Organization: Imperial Cancer Research Fund
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <p_whitehead-140395162516@mac054013.lif.icnet.uk>
References: <3jhq49$hnp@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <3jims2$701@attila.dow.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac054013.lif.icnet.uk
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3jims2$701@attila.dow.com>, kpividal@dow.com (Kathy Pividal,
La. R&D 504/353-2332) wrote:

> In article <3jhq49$hnp@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, eeyore@wpi.WPI.EDU ( Melissa ) writes:
> >	Okay, I'm an idiot.  I admit it.  I filled up 7 flats with dry
> >	fluffy seed starting mix (peat moss/vermiculite/perlite) and
> >	planted my seeds DRY.  Now I can't seem to wet the darn stuff.
> >	Is there ANYTHING I can do?  I'm watering from underneath
> >	since some of the seeds were not covered (i.e. light needed
> >	for germination), but the water is not wicking up to the top
> >	layers.
> >			Thank you.
> >					Melissa
> >					
> >					stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid....
> 
> 
> Try a mister (clean spray bottle) with some warm water and soak the
> seed starting mix by spraying the top. This way you don't disturb the
> seeds you already planted.
> 
> Kathy
> Baton Rouge, LA (zone 8)


Perhapse you need a wetting agent . You could try adding a little washing
-up liquid to the water , it wont harm theseeds/plants and once the compost
is moist  further watering can be done with tap water.
phil whitehead


From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:20 EST 1995
Article: 58536 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: PEONIES
Date: 14 Mar 1995 18:09:44 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 17
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References: <1995Mar14.161358.4983@leo.vsla.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac7.crc.mcw.edu
Status: O
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bparker@leo.vsla.edu (Bonnie Parker) wrote:
>
> I planted peonies several years ago.  They come up every year,
> but never bloom.  What am I doing wrong?  (I'm in zone 7)

Two very important things about peonies.  They should have as much
sun as possible - preferably full sun (or at least not full shade)
and they should not be planted too deep - the crown of the plant should
only be an inch or two below the soil level.  Do buds form, but then
turn black? Then the problem is botyrytis blight and a fungicide is
necessary. Fertilizer?  Too much nitrogen produces foliage at the
expense of flowers, so use a 4-12-4 or 5-10-5 (nitrogen-potassium -
phosphorus). Lastly, peonies may take a year or two to bloom after being
transplanted.  Hope this helps.
Don Martinson
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu



From dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:21 EST 1995
Article: 58537 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!post.its.mcw.edu!usenet
From: Don Martinson <dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: tuberous begonias; which side goes up?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 18:16:04 GMT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin; Milwaukee Wisconsin
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3k4mh4$akf@post.its.mcw.edu>
References: <3jqmqk$16pn@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac7.crc.mcw.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

gresh@watson.ibm.com (donna gresh) wrote:
>
> I bought some tuberous begonia tubers yesterday, and
> after I got home I realized I'd forgotten to ask which way
> they go...

Dent or concave side up is correct.  Sometimes you'll see the start
of some growth in the "dent", but often times not.  Also a hint:
When sprouting tuberous begonias, just barely cover with soil until
the tuber has sprouted a few inches, then plant deeper.
Don Martinson
dmartin@cdmas.crc.mcw.edu


From rappleye@felix.kodak.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:23 EST 1995
Article: 58538 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!clpd-newsserver!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!newsserver.rdcs.Kodak.COM!NewsWatcher!user
From: rappleye@felix.kodak.com (RevDrFreak)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Exploding Wisteria??!?
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 14 Mar 1995 18:16:18 GMT
Organization: Church of the Holy Moose
Lines: 10
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <rappleye-140395131517@150.102.161.162>
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Status: O
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OK troops, here's the situation...here in Upstate NY, just south of Lake
Ontario, for some strange reason it's not snowing...in fact the temperature
is in the low 70's.  While suffering a severe spring fever attack, walking
around the yard to see how much damage was done by the mice and the deer,
we notice that the Wisteria Tree is making popping noises every couple of
minutes as the seed pods explode.  Anybody heard of this before?  Is my
tree a candidate for the X-Files?

RevDrFreak
'foot soldier


From devine@daisy.moffitt.usf.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:24 EST 1995
Article: 58539 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!mother.usf.edu!poppy
From: devine@daisy.moffitt.usf.edu (david devine)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: squash bugs
Date: 14 Mar 1995 18:40:29 GMT
Organization: University of South Florida
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Message-ID: <3k4nut$adi@mother.usf.edu>
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In article <3k2n02$108@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>,
   aford@ix.netcom.com (Anita Ford) wrote:
>In <3k2bsg$b40@newsbf02.news.aol.com> simonsfam@aol.com (Simons Fam) 
>writes: 
>
>>
>>Does anybody know of a good organic method of getting rid of squash 
>bugs
>>besides hand picking? They totally wiped out my pumpkins and zucchini 
>last
>>year.  I tried using the usual Safer products on them in addition to 
>hand
>>picking but I couldn't keep up with them.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Kay
>>
>
>I was fighting them last year as well.  They are nasty creatures, aren't 
>they?
>
>Anyway, I read about (and tried) dusting the plants with wood ash.  It 
>seemed to help.  Since wood ash effects the ph, however, I wasn't sure 
>how much I could use.
>

I got hit last year as well.  I read a little while ago that planting radishes 
among the squash plants helps.  Leave the radishes, don't harvest them.  Also 
heard that aluminium foil may deter them, although I'm not sure how or why.

I'm going to try these ideas this year.  They seem safe and cheap, and if they 
don't work, at least I'll get some radishes <g>.

david


From Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us Thu Mar 16 00:42:25 EST 1995
Article: 58540 of rec.gardens
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <75@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us>
References: <9503080022592.The_Win-D.artbieker@delphi.com><3joc9a$k0i@parsifal.nando.net>
Reply-To: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
From: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 19:54:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Is "Roundup" Safe Way To Kill A Lawn
Lines: 17
Status: RO
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Well I think the question should be what type of grass do you want
to kill???  

IF you are trying to kill a warm weather grass such as zoysia or
centipede.  Then you could always fertilize it now so the stress
will kill it.  

Warm weather grasses fescue etc.  You could fertilize it in the
summer and again let the weather and stress kill it!!

The big thing with roundup is you have to make sure the plant is
actively growing!!  Spraying roundup on a plant that is dormant
will not kill it!!!  So make sure your plant is actively growing
make sure it is not going to rain!!! Within two days of applying
roundup and your lawn should be dead within two weeks.





From Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us Thu Mar 16 00:42:26 EST 1995
Article: 58541 of rec.gardens
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <76@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us>
Reply-To: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
From: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 19:57:59 GMT
Subject: bacillus thuringiensis
Lines: 3
Status: O
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can be purchased as a liquid or dust.  I prefer the liquid as i can
spray it around and under the plants.  Both will wash off after a
rain.  I have used BT now for two years and swear on it!!!.   



From Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us Thu Mar 16 00:42:29 EST 1995
Article: 58542 of rec.gardens
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <77@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us>
Reply-To: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
From: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 20:04:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Natural repellants for cats
Lines: 1
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Dried blood will scare cats away but dogs like it!!!



From Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us Thu Mar 16 00:42:30 EST 1995
Article: 58543 of rec.gardens
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Reply-To: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
From: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 20:08:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Camellias
Lines: 20
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What type of camellia is it?  Sassanqua or japonica if it blooms
in winter it probably is japonica.  (i think)  Now camellias are
acid loving plants.  They can get NO WINTER MORNING SUN!!!!  That
is no sun up until about 9-10 am.  If they are getting this sun it
will cause problems for the plant and stress it and cause it to
loose its buds.  The japonica problems is when the winter starts to
warm up the buds try to blossom and then a cold snap comes and they
fall off!!!  So try a sassanqua camellia they bloom at a different
time and are as not as likely to have this problem.  Good luck. 


In article
<3jse4c$3i6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, JCannoy (jcannoy@aol.com)
writes: 
>I've had my camellia for about 2 years now and each winter it produces
>buds which never bloom.  I don't know if the location is too shady or if
>it is the soil (which I plan to check soon).  I would appreciate any
>information to help my camellia produce flowers!
>
>



From bz2v@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU Thu Mar 16 00:42:32 EST 1995
Article: 58544 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: bz2v@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Boyd  Zenner)
Subject: Re: Wayside Gardens
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 19:09:55 GMT
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welshg@rl.af.mil  writes:
> Prices to high! Quality too low. That's my experience. But they have great 
> pictures to help you through the winter! 
> 
> Glenn 
> 
> 

I agree with the above. Wayside is a tantalizing source book,
and they boast a broad variety of plant materials.  Still, their
offerings within a particular species are quite modest when compared
to specialist nurseries, which also are often considerably less
expensive and can offer you more knowledgeable advice if you
phone them.

One thing Wayside _does_ do, apparently, is carry huge stocks of
each offering: I have never found them to be out of anything I
have ordered from them.

Boyd
Zone 7 (Central VA)


From ssombati@gems.vcu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:33 EST 1995
Article: 58545 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!gems.vcu.edu!ssombati
From: ssombati@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: State Arboretum of Virginia
Message-ID: <1995Mar14.140923.553@gems.vcu.edu>
Date: 14 Mar 95 14:09:22 -0400
References: <3jvmuj$oje@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: Medical College of Virginia
Lines: 12
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On my recent skiing trip to White Tail near Haggerstown.  We passed an 
Arboretum which had a sign "Arboretum of Virginia".  Is that the State Arboretum?
It is certainly not well known.  Yes I think we need all the publicity we can get.

SS



In article <3jvmuj$oje@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jpgallatin@aol.com (JPGallatin) writes:
> We strongly support the State Arboretum of Virginia.  We would like to use
> Internet to spread the word about major events at the Arboretum.  Any
> other ideas?  


From rev@tadpole.co.uk Thu Mar 16 00:42:34 EST 1995
Article: 58546 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!pipex!sirius.tadpole.co.uk!usenet
From: Richard Vialls <rev@tadpole.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.environment,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Cat Litter Disposal?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 09:54:00 GMT
Organization: Tadpole Technology plc
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rg@wmute.demon.co.uk (Robert Gilmore) wrote:

> I have two cats and want to know the best way of disposing of their used
> cat litter. It's Fuller Earth stuff. Is it any use in the garden, or can it 
> be composted or something. Or should I continue to send out out with the trash.

Why not buy the compressed sawdust pellets. I use these and find they
are even better than Fuller's Earth as they smell less. My cat seems
to prefer them as well. They can be composted, flushed down the
toilet, or burned and they also have the advantage that they are made
from a waste product - so being more environmentally freindly.

Richard Vialls (posting as an individual)



From donj@u.washington.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:35 EST 1995
Article: 58547 of rec.gardens
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From: Donald Jorgensen <donj@u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: I want invasive plants
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 10:44:29 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 6
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References: <3jkgsm$hqv@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
 <3jlpku$rcr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <AjN8BQ_00iV_05YOMU@andrew.cmu.edu>
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Bishops Weed is an attractive ground cover which will try to take over 
the world as well.

Don Jorgensen




From weir@stripe.Colorado.EDU Thu Mar 16 00:42:38 EST 1995
Article: 58548 of rec.gardens
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From: weir@stripe.Colorado.EDU (WEIR ANDREW L)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Avoiding / treating damping off
Date: 9 Mar 95 17:43:46 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
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arvesen@tivoli.com (Ralph Arvesen) writes:

>What exactly is damping off and how can it be treated and/or avoided? More 
>specifically, I am trying to germinate Texas Madrone (Arbutus xalapensis),  
>Desert Willow (Chilopsis linearis), and Mountain Laurel (Sophora secundiflora) 
>seeds. Thanks.

>... Ralph Arvesen (Austin, TX)
>... arvesen@tivoli.com

Damping off is any of a number of fungal diseases that can attack seedlings.
The classic sign is that seedlings fall over like they've been felled by tiny
little lumberjacks. When you pull them up you'll see that the stem around the
soil line looks thin and wasted in comparison to the rest. Damping off can also
affect seedlings before they sprout in which case you never see anything.

Since these fungal spores are omnipresent in the air, there's no certain way to
prevent them zapping your babies. Things you can do to minimise the risk includealways using sterilized media and containers, and ensuring good air flow around
the seedlings. You can buy sterile potting mix, or sterilize your own by baking
it (stinks your kitchen out for days), sterilize containers etc. with bleach
solution, and use fans to move the air around (good for the seedlings anyway
as it promotes strong stem development). Also, don't keep the soil surface too
moist as this promotes fungi.

Hope this helps.

Andy


From weir@stripe.Colorado.EDU Thu Mar 16 00:42:39 EST 1995
Article: 58549 of rec.gardens
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From: weir@stripe.Colorado.EDU (WEIR ANDREW L)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: vegetable plants for containers
Date: 9 Mar 95 17:56:51 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
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lexloci1@aol.com (LEX LOCI 1) writes:
Depends upon the size of the containers - if they're large enough you can
grow anything. There are many smaller or dwarf varieties available of most
common vegetable crops. I'm growing Tom Thumb lettuce (matures about 6 inches
across), and Patio Hybrid II cherry tomatoes in some smaller containers, as
well as a whole range of standard tomato and pepper varieties in larger
containers. Some veggies, such as broccoli, seem to me to be a waste of space - they can grow
exceedingly large and take up valuable room (always the big constraint in a
container garden).

Most herbs do very well in containers (some, like dill, do need
more room as there tap roots are quite long), and you can keep them
going for years (perennials, anyway) by bringing them in for the winter. 


>Can anyone give me some good varieties of
>vegetables(tomatoes,greens,herbs,spinach) that will grow well in
>containers in an urban garden,specifically Philadelphia?


From jware@cdpa.state.ms.us Thu Mar 16 00:42:40 EST 1995
Article: 58550 of rec.gardens
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From: <jware@sun1.cdpa.state.ms.us>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Katz..
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 12:48:01 CST
Organization: Mississippi State University
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>> Are there any natural ways to discourage the cats from entering his garden?
>
>I've always found that a noisy dog works :)
>
>When I used to let my cats out the neighbours dog used to do a pretty good
>job of keeping them on my side of the fence.  When my dog was out as well
>the cats stayed on the porch, or came in.

Not necessairly. My cat regulary mangles a noisy cocker spainel next door...

He also keeps varmits out- and other cats. He's a big yellow tabby that 
doesn't go far afield and has brought me rabbits, squirrels, mice, moles, 
snakes and an occassional blue jay. If he's brought me all of this lot, how 
much has he kept for himself?

-James (& Booger the terrorist tabby)

============================================================================
                                _______  
                               /       |
   James R. Ware              /        |
                             /         |   jware@cdpa.state.ms.us
   MS Dept. of Archives      |         |   
   Systems Administrator     \         |
   100 S. State St.           |        |   PHONE: (601) 359-6888     
   P.O. Box 571               /        |   FAX:   (601) 359-6905        
   Jackson, MS 39205-0571    /         |
                            |______    |
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============================================================================


From ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Mar 16 00:42:42 EST 1995
Article: 58551 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Subject: Re: Is "Roundup" Safe Way To Kill A Lawn
Message-ID: <D5G6xL.1xt@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ar367@freenet3.carleton.ca (Ken Toews)
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The following is from a Monsanto flyer

-Microbes break down the active ingredient of roundup in the soil.
>>>>>>>>>>>>note: active ingredient<<<<<<<<

-Roundup wont leach into the soil.....because it binds tightly to
soil particles

-Roundup does not give off fumes or odours.

-Roundup works by stopping the formulation of certain amino acids
(protein building blocks) found only in plants.
>>>>>>>>>>>Roundup is still readily absorbed thru the skin, and
excreted thru the urine. If you like roundup you will say it causes
no problems on the way, if you dont like roundup this will concern
you<<<<<<<<<

-Roundup is safe to humans, pets and wildlife when used as
directed.


The following problems warrant concern when Roundup is considered
for use: 
 
 1. PERSISTENCE.  Although the claim is often made that Roundup is
inactivated rapidly in soil, it is more accurate to say that it is
usually absorbed to soil components.  A sandy loam treated with
glyphosate at recommended application rates (e.g., 2, 5, and 10
ug/g soil) was found to drastically reduce nitrogen fixation,
growth, and nodulation of subterranean clover/Rhizobium trifolium/
planted 120 days after glyphosate treatment. 
Glyphosate clearly remains active in soils that do not adsorb it
readily. 
 
Damage to vine maple and bigleaf maple was found to increase during
the second year following treatment with glyphosate, indicating
that glyphosate persists for extended periods in plants. 
 
2. PHYTOTOXICITY.  Because glyphosate is a nonselective herbicide,
any desired vegetation must be completely protected from glyphosate
drive, mist, or drip.  As Monsanto notes in its Rounup label guide,
"...minute quantities of this herbicide can cause severe damage or
destruction to the crop, plants, 
or other areas on which treatment was not intended." 
 
3. TOXICITY OF 'INERT' INGREDIENTS. 

There is no way of knowing what you are applying when you use
roundup. According to the 1994 Solaris Product Label guide
published
by Monsanto available at 1-800-225-2883, its free, page 150
Round up weed and grass killer is 99.04% Inert ingredients.

For a complete rundown on what that 99.04% of the product could be
get: The Secret Hazards of Pesticides: Inert Ingredients. It is
available for free from the New York State Department of Law.
1-518-474-5481

4. TESTING. [The article explains that testing on glyphosate by
itself is inadequate since the inert ingredients are very important
to making Roundup work.  Most test results are "unpublished and
developed by Monsanto or laboratories hired by Monsanto."  
Other points are made about lack of cancer testing and links to
"human damage" including "conjunctivitis (inflammation oft he
eyelid and eyeball mucous membrane), dermatitis (inflammation of
the skin), and severe flu-like symptoms following exposure to
glyphosate.  Of 143 pesticides reported for causing human illness
in California in 1986, glyphosate was fourth in the number of
incidents reported."  No further details on this statistic are 
given.  

 
A "Roundup Information Packet" containing a series of articles on
Roundup is available for $10.50 postpaid from NCAP; P.O. Box 1393;
Eugene OR 97440.  A file of these and additional glyphsate/Roundup
articles is maintained at NCAP; these can be copied at 10
cents/page. 
 
>From "Roundup, Vision, POEA, and 1,4-Dioxane: Why Full Formulations
Are the Problem." Written by Mary O'Brien--a staff scientist for
NCAP.  Vol. 9, No. 4 of the Journal of Pesticide Reform. 
 
When a letter by four Japanese emergency medicine professionals
appeared in the February 6, 1988 issue of the American medical
journal, The Lancet, a Washington toxicology consultant, David
Monroe, took note.  The Japanese authors were noting that an "inert
ingredient" in the herbicide Roundup (rather than the identified
"active" ingredient, glyphosate) accounts for the 
acute toxicity they had found in patients poisoned (some fatally)
by Roundup 

(JPR 8(1):30).  Symptoms included gastrointestinal ("GI" -ed) pain
and vomiting, swelling of the lungs and pneumonia, reduction of
blood pressure, clouding of consciousness, and red blood cell
destruction. 
 
The so-called "inert ingredient," polyoxyethyleneamine (POEA),
actually refers to a family of chemicals.  It is added to Roundup
and Vision herbicide formulations  as a surfactant, an ingredient
that will help evenly spread the active ingredient, glyphosate, on
target plants. 
 
The Japanese researchers noted that the acute lethal dose of POEA
is less than one-third (i.e., POEA is three times as toxic) that of
Roundup, and that POEA belongs to a class of surfactants that have
been reported to cause adverse GI and central nervous system
effects and damage to red blood cells. 
 
As POEA does not appear on the Roundup label (supposedly protected,
as an inert, from public disclosure under the U.S. pesticide
law...), Monroe first learned of its presence in Roundup through
the Lancet letter.  
 
Monroe recalled a U.S. EPA memorandum that discussed the presence
of 1,4-dioxane in two polyalkoxylated polyamine products ...
manufactured by the Henkel Corporation.  Knowing that POEA is a
polyalkoxylated amine, Monroe suspected that 1,4-dioxane might be
present as a contaminant of POEA.  
[ the article now describes the side effects of 1,4-dioxane, which
include liver and kidney damage, and cancer in laboratory animals. 
"The liver and kidney damage can occur regardless of the route of
1,4-dioxane exposure 
  (inhalation, oral ingestion, and/or skin application)."   This
section  concludes with this statement: 'The International Agency
for Research on   Cancer indicates that evidence is "sufficient" to
know that 1,4-dioxane  causes cancer in animals and the U.S EPA
regards 1,4-dioxane as a probable human carcinogen.'  
 
  Researchers in British Columbia went on to test Vision (Canada's
version of Roundup) checking for 1,4-dioxane contamination.  From
a 250ml sample, the  CANTEST lab detected 350 parts per million
1,4-dioxane using a purge and trap method.  That level is
equivalent to .35 percent.   now quoting again from the article: ] 
 
A 1982 EPA memo ... also discussed 1,4-dioxane as being present in
dichloroethyl ether.  The 1982 EPA memo ... had been prompted by
concern that 1,4-dioxane had been found in dichloroethyl ether at
0.42 percent and 0.55 percent.  Under "comments/recommendations" in
the memo, the EPA noted that 
the manufacturer of the contaminated dichloroethyl ether "reported
that its employees and customers were being notified of the
presence of 1,4-dioxane in dichloroethyl ether.  In addition, the
company reported that its current safety precautions include
'body-protective clothing and boots, eye protection, and monitoring
of air levels of dichloroethyl ether.'" 
 
Users of Roundup and Vision are not informed that the formulation
contains either POEA or 1,4-dioxane.  Roundup is widely used by
home owners wearing no particular protective clothing, and the
label merely states, "Avoid contact with eyes, skin, and clothing
because of possible (eye and skin) irritation." 
 
The presence of 1,4-dioxane in Vision (and presumably in Roundup)
is a classic example of the following: 
 
 1. Full formulations, "inert" ingredients, and contaminants, not
merely the so-called "active" ingredient, can cause cancer and
other adverse chronic effects; their exemption from testing for
chronic toxicity is indefensible.  
 2. The current classification by the EPA of POEA as a "List 3"
inert ingredient  ("inert of unknown toxicity"), subject neither to
listing on the label nor toxicological testing requirements, is
indefensible. 
  3. Estimating the toxicity of glyphosate alone is meaningless
when a full formulation (e.g., Roundup, Vision) containing POEA,
1,4-dioxane, and other unlisted ingredients and contaminants is the
mixture to which people and the environment will be exposed. 
 
What you don't know can hurt you. 
--
Ken Toews                     Yes son, when I was a boy, if you wanted to talk
Nepean Ontario Canada         to someone you actually looked them in the eye,
                              not that anyone actually liked it, but yup,
                              those rumours were true, people touched too....


From bae@oci.utoronto.ca Thu Mar 16 00:42:43 EST 1995
Article: 58552 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!oci!bae
From: bae@oci.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher)
Subject: Re: Saving Seeds Not Used This Year
Message-ID: <D5EI70.C2C@oci.utoronto.ca>
Sender: news@oci.utoronto.ca
Organization: Ontario Cancer Institute, University of Toronto
References: <3jtht3$c0s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3jtnae$ast@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <1735FF367S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 22:52:11 GMT
Lines: 26
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <1735FF367S86.LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU> LEAPDJWV@VM.TEMPLE.EDU writes:
>I've started some seeds with plans for more.  I won't use all
>the seeds in a packet.  Some will be used for successive planting
>but what to do with the leftovers?  How do I store them?
> 
>I understand seeds can be used a year later and in the past I was
>given seeds saved by a friend's father years ago.  Do seed savers
>have some magic process?

Garden seeds kept under cool and dry conditions will keep their viability
for many years.  I store mine in a box in the fridge and have had good
germination for most seeds as old as 5-10 years.  Tomatoes and squash
are particularly long-lived.  Onions are supposed to lose viability
quickly but mine are still ok after 3 or more years.

Some people store their seeds in a jar in the fridge and put some milk
powder wrapped in tissue in the jar as a desiccant.  Don't freeze your
seeds unless you can be sure they are bone-dry.

When you take your seeds out of the fridge, be careful on humid days
because moisture will condense on the cool surface.  Don't take the
whole packet out to the garden, just shake out what you need and put
the rest back in the fridge.

Beverly Erlebacher
Toronto, Ontario Canada


From bae@oci.utoronto.ca Thu Mar 16 00:42:44 EST 1995
Article: 58553 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!oci!bae
From: bae@oci.utoronto.ca (Beverly Erlebacher)
Subject: Re: Plants from vegetable seeds??
Message-ID: <D5EIIF.C8n@oci.utoronto.ca>
Sender: news@oci.utoronto.ca
Organization: Ontario Cancer Institute, University of Toronto
References: <hQ07uoc.marcscholl@delphi.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 22:59:02 GMT
Lines: 23
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <hQ07uoc.marcscholl@delphi.com> Marc Scholl <marcscholl@delphi.com> writes:
>This may sound like a naive question, but what are the reasons, if any,
>that you can't start plants from their the seeds of vegetables (peas from
>nts and cucumbers) bought at frut and vegetable stands rather
>than from packages of seeds?  Or can you?

You can, as long as the seeds are mature.  Many vegetables are sold at
a stage before the seeds mature, including fresh peas and cucumbers.
You can usually save seed from squash, melons, tomatoes, ripe (not green)
peppers.  Dry seeds such as beans, peas and lentils are usually viable.

You can't count on the seedlings producing fruit resembling the one you
took the seeds out of, but every time I've tried it, they've been just
fine.  The variety may not be suited to your climate or growing conditions.
Don't save seed from diseased-looking or defective vegetables.

It can be a fun thing to try.  I have a strain of intense yellow bell
pepper and one of bright orange sheep-nose pepper that I started from
fruits.  The latter was a mutant in a bushel of dark red ones.

Beverly Erlebacher
Toronto, Ontario Canada



From Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM Thu Mar 16 00:42:46 EST 1995
Article: 58554 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!southwind.net!jupiter.WichitaKS.NCR.COM!jupiter.wichitaks.ncr.com!Jeff.Cook
From: Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Jeff Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Organic alternative for spraying trees?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 21:57:22 GMT
Organization: Symbios Logic, Ft. Collins, CO
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <JEFF.COOK.95Mar14145722@bears.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bears.ncrmicro.ncr.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Last summer, my peach and plum trees came down with a serious case of
galls on the leaves.  My local garden center recommended that I wait until
this spring, before the leaves came out, to spray my trees with Dursban
or Sevin.

Well, I went down there to pick some up today, but realized I absolutely
_hated_ the idea of using chemical pesticides on my property.  My garden
is completely organic, and I'm trying to reduce the chemicals I'm using
on my lawn.  I am willing to use Sevin if I have to, but I decided to
wait until I heard what ideas you rec.gardeners might come up with as an
alternative.  So, do you have any suggestions on how to deal with galls
on fruit trees, or am I going to have to wage chemical warfare?
--

Jeff Cook                                 Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.com


From jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org Thu Mar 16 00:42:47 EST 1995
Article: 58555 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!tcsi.tcs.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: HELP WITH VERMI-COMP˙˙˙˙˙
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Message-ID: <36.11762.2599@granite.mn.org>
References: <3jvqgo$pbo@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 07:55:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372
Lines: 22
Status: O
X-Status: 

Tigibson writes:
References: <3jvqgo$pbo@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 

TT> i just started my worm bin and i need to know how much moisture to
TT> provide. the book i've read is really unclear about it. help!!

As much water as possible, but make sure that the bin drains. Standing 
water at the bottom of the bin can go anaerobic, and the resulting 
liquid is odorous and toxic to worms.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org


 * RM 1.3 02460 * Taglines? We doan need no stinking taglines!

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 654-8372 28.8K 3 Lines
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From mitchelb@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:49 EST 1995
Article: 58556 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!ub!netfs.dnd.ca!dgbt!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!freenet2.scri.fsu.edu!mitchelb
From: mitchelb@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu (Belinda Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: shrub roses
Date: 14 Mar 1995 20:17:07 GMT
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3k4tk3$m6d@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet2.scri.fsu.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hello All,

Can anyone recommend some type of rose shrub to be used as a privacy
hedge.  I am looking for one that grows at least five feet in height.
What might I expect in width?  How easy is it to grow and maintain?
How long does it take to become a solid hedge?
I am in  the northern part of Florida.

Thanks,
Belinda


From d_swartz@gate.net Thu Mar 16 00:42:50 EST 1995
Article: 58557 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!cs.utk.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tequesta.gate.net!dffl2-18.gate.net!user
From: d_swartz@gate.net (Debbie DeNeese)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Coffee Grounds
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 15:20:39 -1812
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <d_swartz-1403951520390001@dffl2-18.gate.net>
References: <3ja6u7$30s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <cbrossma-060395090117@130.13.28.233>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dffl2-18.gate.net
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <cbrossma-060395090117@130.13.28.233>,
cbrossma@advtech.uswest.com (Craig Brossman) wrote:

  > In article <3ja6u7$30s@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, msalexandr@aol.com
  > (MSAlexandr) wrote:
  > 
  > > Are coffee grounds good for anything in the garden?
  > 
  > -- 
  > I asked this group about using grounds for acid loving plants, particularly
  > blueberry bushes. I will put my grounds around the base of the plants this
  > season.

Is the benificial result of this amendment a lowering of the soil pH?  If
so, I'm gonna start drinking more coffee for my azaleas' sake...

=http://inca.gate.net:80/~d_swartz/neurodisc/html/neurodisc.html=
 Debbie DeNeese                     Email:  d_swartz@gate.net
 Neurodisc Records, Inc.            (finger for pgp public key)             
 450 N. Park Road  Suite 700             (305) 963-0555 [voice]
 Hollywood, FL   33021                   (305) 964-1117 [fax]
-= http://dswartz.dffl.gate.net/neurodisc/html/neurodisc.html =-


From ssanders@umich.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:51 EST 1995
Article: 58558 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!usenet
From: Susan Sanders <ssanders@umich.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Odd Trenches in Lawn?
Date: 14 Mar 1995 20:46:22 GMT
Organization: The University of Michigan
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k4vau$hl9@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>
References: <3k4d4t$tu@info1.sdrc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.211.54.249
X-Newsreader: Nuntius Version 1.2
X-XXDate: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 20:48:19 GMT
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3k4d4t$tu@info1.sdrc.com> lisa kerns, drlkrns@sdrc.com writes:
>what their holes look like. So what is doing this? 

Maybe the same whatever that's making those mysterious crop circles in
England?!?  Hmm?!?

(I have no idea).                  -Sue Sanders


From richc@phantom.pac.sc.ti.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:53 EST 1995
Article: 58559 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!mcrcr6!cmcl2!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.alpha.net!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!news.itg.ti.com!phantom!richc
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: rec.plants.*
Message-ID: <3k1u2l$5bn@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
From: richc@phantom.pac.sc.ti.com (Richard Campbell)
Date: 13 Mar 1995 17:06:29 GMT
Sender: richc@phantom (Richard Campbell 575-4122)
References: <3jtt5i$t0j@gold.interlog.com> 
 <3k039c$6j6$1@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: TEXAS INSTRUMENTS
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu news.groups:114505 rec.gardens:58559
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3k039c$6j6$1@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>, Cheryl Netter <71073.1475@CompuServe.COM> writes:

snipped 

|> 
|> Well Richard, if your so confident that this is the right thing to do, 
|> then we'll just wait for the vote and let the democratic process do 
|> it's thing.
|> 
|> Christopher J. Netter
|> 
|> P.S.  Oh and by the way Rick, I've been called far worse things than 
|> this, but I do believe that you owe Kay Klier an apology.

Ohhh!  I missed this whole deal (and I thought I was keeping up with
is so well).  What did Rick S. say to our beloved Kay?

-- 
Rich Campbell
richc@phantom.itg.ti.com


From jrwoodworth@mmm.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:54 EST 1995
Article: 58560 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!mr.net!dawn.mmm.com!JRW63025!jrwoodworth
From: jrwoodworth@mmm.com (John Woodworth)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: SO WHAT'S BLOOMING? IT'S
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:38:25
Organization: 3M
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <jrwoodworth.392.000EA45B@mmm.com>
References: <bhieber.432.2F5DC63E@AdminBldg.Lan1.UManitoba.CA> <9503100218241624@southwest.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jrw63025.mmm.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <9503100218241624@southwest.org> jen.mayer@southwest.org (Jen Mayer) writes:
>From: jen.mayer@southwest.org (Jen Mayer)
>Subject: Re: SO WHAT'S BLOOMING? IT'S
>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 02:36:00 GMT

>BH> From: bhieber@AdminBldg.Lan1.UManitoba.CA (Brian Hiebert)
>BH> Do you people know how cruel it is to be posting all of your 'so
>BH> whats blooming in your garden?' messages? I can't even THINK about
>BH> planting for 2.5 months minimum! Mean! Mean! Mean! Brian

>This is *really* evil then... Last weekend I picked an entire salad out 
>of my garden: Lettuce (four different varieties), chives, carrots & 
>radishes!

>Hey, if you want to grow stuff year round, come on out to sunny 
>California...  (or eat your heart out!) <g>

You are wicked. You deserve a nice cold snowstorm. I hope you're transferred 
to North Dakota (like Minnesota, only worse) someday. ;)

John


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Imitation is the sincerest form of parody."

                         Richard Corliss
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From odinthor@csulb.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:55 EST 1995
Article: 58561 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!csulb.edu!odinthor
From: odinthor@csulb.edu (Brent Dickerson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Natural repellants for cats
Date: 14 Mar 1995 20:30:28 GMT
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3k4ud5$c07@garuda.csulb.edu>
References: <3jprfm$eb4@archive.ny.jpmorgan.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tern.csulb.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jeanne Sweeney (sweeney_jeanne@jpmorgan.com) wrote:
: I have a friend with a stray cat problem in his neighborhood. 
: (There are dozens.) He doesn't mind the cats but their urine seems
: to kill some of his plants.  Are there any natural ways to discourage
: the cats from entering his garden?

This sounds pretty raunchy, I know, but it works on most cats:  Kill 
snails where you don't want cats to be, and leave the corpses there.  
Eeeeuuuwwwww!  But the cats stay away (so would I)!

Best Wishes,

--BCD


From wallacec1@jaguar.uofs.edu Thu Mar 16 00:42:56 EST 1995
Article: 58562 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!gopher.cs.uofs.edu!jaguar.uofs.edu!wallacec1
From: wallacec1@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Hydrangea pruning time?
Date: 14 Mar 95 16:42:57 EST
Organization: University of Scranton
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <1995Mar14.164257.1@jaguar.uofs.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jaguar.cs.uofs.edu
Status: O
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I was out working in the garden today (FINALLY!!!!), happily pruning
down the buddleia, giving the ornamental grasses haircuts--but I stopped
short at my hydrangea--should I be cutting it now, or in the fall?
(I think it's a PG--it came unlabeled from the nursery, but that's
what it looks most like in books.)
Carol
Zone 5/6


From jojo4fur@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:42:58 EST 1995
Article: 58563 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: jojo4fur@aol.com (JOJO4FUR)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Least liked plant
Date: 14 Mar 1995 17:41:00 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 16
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: jojo4fur@aol.com (JOJO4FUR)
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Status: O
X-Status: 

My least liked plant has been miscanthus  sinesis gracemillus or that is
what I think the spelling goes like... This is a lovely, tall ornamental
grass with a height of about five feet and that spread when I finally got
reid of my ten plants of about 6 feet each. Every late winter they need to
be cut down and a chain saw is needed to get that done as they grow wider.
The slender stalks cut your skin as you gather the pieces. The year I
tried to let them go natural and neglected to cut them the wind carried
the dry pieces across the neighbors yard. Unlike leaves, everyone knows
which homeowner is so irresponsible.
 
The worst part was digging them up. The roots were so tight they held the
earth underneath and it was too much for me. too much for the men I hired
too. Finally the men used chains wrapped around the grasses and pulled
them out with their truck.

And they looked so delicate and graceful.


From warden@tacos.caltech.edu Thu Mar 16 00:43:00 EST 1995
Article: 58564 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!fonebone.patnet.caltech.edu!user
From: warden@tacos.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Help! gophers? moles?
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 13:58:38 -0800
Organization: CIT
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <warden-1403951358380001@fonebone.patnet.caltech.edu>
References: <3jf4f4$qbd@martha.utk.edu> <3jt7tc$gi4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fonebone.patnet.caltech.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3jt7tc$gi4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, accord@ibm.net wrote:

" In <3jf4f4$qbd@martha.utk.edu>, uther@martha.utcc.utk.edu () writes:
" >--------
" >
" >i hope someone out there in cyberspace can help me.  last summer i bought a
" >new house.  this fall i planted several hundred bulbs so i've been looking
" >forward to spring.  spring is here (here is knoxville, tn, usa) and several
" >(but less than i had expected) things were starting to come up - and a few
" >to bloom - when disaster struck... the new shoots were eaten below ground
" >level!  just a few chewed shoots left in a small hole.  the holes range in
" >size from around an inch to two or three inches in diameter.  there are lots
" >of mounds in the affected areas.  
" >
" >



My sister and her husband had an awful problem when they were in the UK.
About an acre, and full of soft dirt mounds. He came up with a propane
tank and regulator hooked up to a 1/4" tube. The end of the tube was
pinched off to keep it from clogging, and had a few holes drilled towards
the tip.

The probe was inserted into a tunnel, and the tank turned on. He said it
worked, and never blew himself up! (DON'T smoke!!)

so much for my two cents. And I wouldn't advise doing this, of course!

-- 

*********************************************************
If you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart.

If you're not conservative when you grow up, you have no brain.

              -Sir Winston Churchill
                        or
              -George Bernard Shaw
                        or
              -Someone


From ssunden@ops.ophth.uiowa.edu Thu Mar 16 00:43:01 EST 1995
Article: 58565 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!genome8.ped-gen.uiowa.edu!user
From: ssunden@ops.ophth.uiowa.edu (Sara Sunden)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: heating cables
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 14 Mar 1995 22:43:03 GMT
Organization: uiowa
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <ssunden-140395164621@genome8.ped-gen.uiowa.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: genome8.ped-gen.uiowa.edu
Status: O
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Having seen on one of the gardening oriented PBS shows, the use of a
heating
cable (not a mat) to start seeds, we purchased one to try.  Our intention
was
to use it as I thought they did on the show, which was to coil it through
vermiculite under our planting trays.  The instructions with the coil claim
that it is ineffectual- and that the heat will not be transferred
through the plastic.

Anyone have any experience/suggestions using heating cables.  We start
all our seeds in small square pots for later transplanting to 6-packs.

Sara Sunden


From seremjia@it.uwp.edu Thu Mar 16 00:43:03 EST 1995
Article: 58566 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!cs.uwp.edu!it!seremjia
From: seremjia@it.uwp.edu (Peggy Seremjian)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Help with VERMI-composting
Date: 14 Mar 1995 23:18:38 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3k588e$9dk@cs.uwp.edu>
References: <D5CDMJ.Iwv@freenet.carleton.ca> <1995Mar13.152841.40164@cobra.uni.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: it.uwp.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: O
X-Status: 

: > 
: > Can the compost be used directly on my house plants?

: Personally, I wouldn't.  Worms in the roots of houseplants usually cause
: trouble.
what kind of trouble is that? We are talking "compost worms" here 
(_lumbricus rubellus_ or _lumbricus foetida_) aren't we? Not larvae.

: It's different outside.. but the environment in a pot isn't
: exactly natural.
true. Seldom enough food to sustain a worm population in a contianer that 
small.

: Compost tea or steamed compost might be a better choice.
or just the castings themselves

Peg


From sacks@notime.enet.dec.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:05 EST 1995
Article: 58567 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!caen!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!jac.zko.dec.com!notime.enet.dec.com!sacks
From: sacks@notime.enet.dec.com (Gerald Sacks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Tree tomatoes
Date: 13 MAR 95 10:22:44
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3k1npq$9nm@jac.zko.dec.com>
References: <3jshbh$4ac@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: NOTIME
Status: O
X-Status: 


In article <3jshbh$4ac@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, billyfish@aol.com (BillyFish) writes...

>What can anyone tell me about tree tomatoes?

>From what I've read, they're not tomatoes at all.  The fruits look a little
like tomatoes, but don't taste like them.  They're a tender perennial from
New Zealand called something Tamarillo.  Unless you live in a warm climate,
you'll have to bring them indoors in the winter.

Gerald Sacks			sacks@notime.enet.dec.com


From adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Thu Mar 16 00:43:07 EST 1995
Article: 58568 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!vtaix.cc.vt.edu!adamf
From: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu (Adam Finkelstein)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: rec.plants.* VOTE soon
Date: 15 Mar 1995 01:15:19 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3k5f37$5su@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vtaix.cc.vt.edu
NNTP-Posting-User: adamf
Status: RO
X-Status: 

 Soon the cfv for rec.plants.* will be appearing.
You need to vote on this. If you don't vote, the newsgroup might change,
and this might not be good for you.
 Do you know how to vote? Do you know what a cfv is? Keep your eyes open
for upcoming information.

Adam
-- 
______________________________________
Adam Finkelstein 
adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu 


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Mar 16 00:43:08 EST 1995
Article: 58569 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Info in growing carrots from seed?
Message-ID: <1995Mar14.174637.40217@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 14 Mar 95 17:46:37 -0600
References: <3k491g$bko@netnews.upenn.edu>
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 44
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In article <3k491g$bko@netnews.upenn.edu>, swirsky@umis.upenn.edu (Ted Swirsky) writes:
> 
> My daughter likes carrots and insisted we buy some seeds.  Are carrots
> difficult to grow?  Any special requirements besides deep, loosened soil?
> 
> We are in South Jersey.  Thanks!


Carrots are very easy to grow.... easiest in sandy or peaty soils, because
the roots brush penetrate the soil easily and "grow straight", and the
soil brushes off easily for harvest.  If you've got a heavy, clay-ey
soil, you can either grow little round carrots (these are special 
cultivars), or you can dig a pit, fill it with sand and compost
mixture and grow in that.

Look around and you'll probably see several cultivars of carrots: why
not try several kinds?  Some I particularly like are:

Nantes Coreless, a classic "big carrot", like from the store
Bolero, with a cylindrical root and good flavor
Planet, a baby carrot, one of the ball shaped ones for heavy soil,
   but excellent flavor
Little Finger, a small carrot, of the "gourmet baby carrot" persuasion.

Carrots do take a while to germinate, and sometimes carry a seedcoat
virus that wreaks havoc on the crop.  To help both problems, soak
carrot seed in milk for 24 hours before planting (use a shallow 
dish, like a saucer, and any milk... skim or whole.  The milk
proteins inactivate the virus).  Plant the presoaked seed in 
moist soil, and keep the seeds moist until they germinate, about
2-3 weeks in cooler temperatures.  Cover the seeds in the row
with a couple of layers of gunny sack if you're concerned with
soil drying out... remove it when the plants sprout.  Don't forget
to thin the rows of young carrots, since most of us plant the seeds
much too closely together.  An inch or so apart is the spacing I 
aim for when I plant carrot seeds, but I usually seem to wind up
with 2-3 carrots per inch... and you've got to (whining sound!)
pull the extras so that the remainder can develop properly.
Mixing the seed with sand when you're planting it can help get the
seeds a bit more spread out initially.

Kay Klier   klier@cobra.uni.edu




From rbp@pressco.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:10 EST 1995
Article: 58570 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!pressco.com!usenet
From: Rod Preston <rbp@pressco.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Heat Source for Germination
Date: 13 Mar 1995 22:33:45 GMT
Organization: Pressco Technology
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3k2h89$pb4@pti.pressco.com>
References: <3jn832$3tmv@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pti.pressco.com
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yeutter@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (M. Yeutter) wrote:
>
> I put the seed flats on the heated waterbed when I get up in the
> morning, then set them on the floor overnight.  The sprouted 
> 6-packs go into different flats under the lights.  I've learned
> the hard way to use an indelible marker and write the type of
> plant on each 6-pack when I plant the seeds.  I tried to 
> remember what was planted (very poor idea) and I've drawn diagrams
> of the flats with everything labelled, but position-dependent
> labelling has left me with mystery plants X 6.  
> 
> Marguerite
> 
> 
> -- 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> |  yeutter@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu  |    standard   |                           
> |      Marguerite Yeutter       |   disclaimer. |
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 

I germinate mine on top of the furnace.  My squash and zuchinni sprouted
in about 3 days.

Rod Preston
rbp@pressco.com



From pld@fc.hp.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:11 EST 1995
Article: 58571 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hplntx!cello.hpl.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!pld
From: pld@fc.hp.com (Paul Dineen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Good Landscape Design Software?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 23:45:47 GMT
Organization: HP WRCO, Fort Collins, CO
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k2lfb$lsp@tadpole.fc.hp.com>
References: <3jtqvv$md0@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

Celeste Wegner (FZVC12A@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Any response to your landscape design software question--any 
: recommendations for a good package?
: -
:   CELESTE WEGNER  FZVC12A@prodigy.com

 Check out:
 <a href="http://www.wimsey.com/tcp/Jan95/Gardening.html">
	    Review of gardening software</a>


From pk@clark.net Thu Mar 16 00:43:13 EST 1995
Article: 58572 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!news.clark.net!not-for-mail
From: pk@clark.net (Paul Kelley)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Topiary
Date: 14 Mar 1995 20:06:58 -0500
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Ellicott City MD USA
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3k5eji$glb@explorer.clark.net>
References: <3jtql1$b5h@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <1995Mar13.132702.40143@cobra.uni.edu>
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There is a beautiful house and garden about 25 miles northeast-ish of 
Baltimore City called Ladew Gardens.  It has a very extensive collection 
of topiary.  Some of the figures include a hunting scene with a horse and 
rider, hounds and a fox.  During the summer, they have polo matches and 
concerts.  At the Christmas holidays, the house is open for tours. It is a 
fabulous place to visit if you are in Baltimore and interested in topiary.

Happy gardening

meg, not paul

-- 
Paul Kelley at pk@clark.net



From wendlandt@delphi.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:14 EST 1995
Article: 58573 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: wendlandt@delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: clematis or hydrangea help
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 21:52:10 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <RO3Yumi.wendlandt@delphi.com>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1c.delphi.com
X-To: Samme Orwig <sfo@bu.edu>
Status: O
X-Status: 

Samme Orwig <sfo@bu.edu> writes:
 
>LEX LOCI 1 (lexloci1@aol.com) wrote:
>: can anyone give me the names for some good, hardy varieties of clematis
>: vines and hydrangeas which are suitable for a shady garden in zone 6?
 
I agree with the second thread, Clematis really loves head in the sun and feet
in the shade.  If you find a spot that they're happy with, you will really have
a specimen plant.  I've had good success also with Jackmanii.  Actually, the
Jackman family are t
he ones to make good progress with hybridizing the Clematis.
good gardening,
sharyl


From wendlandt@delphi.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:15 EST 1995
Article: 58574 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: wendlandt@delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Your favorite Perennial or Annual
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 21:54:20 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
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Is anyone willing to comment on your favorite annual or perennial?
Thanks, Sharyl


From allyn@u.washington.edu Thu Mar 16 00:43:16 EST 1995
Article: 58576 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!nntp.cac.washington.edu!psaltery.chem.washington.edu!user
From: allyn@u.washington.edu (Allyn Weaks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seattle soils (was: Re: Need help with Seattle herb garden...)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 16:04:43 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <allyn-1403951604430001@psaltery.chem.washington.edu>
References: <3jl8a0$fck@gtenmo1.nmo.gtegsc.com> <3k25eg$dp7@news.halcyon.com> <allyn-1303952102380001@psaltery.chem.washington.edu> <3k3g8u$477@cks.ssd.k12.wa.us>
NNTP-Posting-Host: psaltery.chem.washington.edu
X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b24.0+
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <3k3g8u$477@cks.ssd.k12.wa.us>, handerso@cks.ssd.k12.wa.us
(Helen Anderson) wrote:

> : there is _real_ clay, I've yet to see any around here...if you can't make
> 
> I believe it is mostly private property but try looking where the old
> brick plant used to be, south of Spokane Street.  They mined the area east
> of what is now I-5.


Yes, but that area is smack in the middle of the Duwamish River delta...
-- 
Allyn Weaks
allyn@u.washington.edu


From destry@netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:18 EST 1995
Article: 58577 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: california storm
Message-ID: <destryD5GI4C.GEC@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 00:45:48 GMT
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elaine shanahan (dixie1@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Anyone out there have anything to say about the storm this week and 
: their gardening efforts?  We had a fence blown down the other nite, but 
: other than that, no real garden damage.  I was worried about some herb 
: plants I had just planted three days before, and I also thought my baby 
: apple tree would be uprooted and blown away (as our patio furniture 
: was).  

: Elaine in San Francisco

    I've had to put off clearing the side of my garden for tomatoes, 
peppers and corn until the ground drys out (luckily, that part of my yard 
is 4 ft. above my neighbors, so the standing water drains away in a day 
or so...the other side of my yard is still underwater). My window 
greenhouse is overflowing with too-large seedlings and the ones already 
outside are under mud.
   We were supposed to get most of the rain down here, but it bypassed us 
and went north instead, so you got our share too. 

 --Max...in San Diego
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From kc@tiac.net Thu Mar 16 00:43:19 EST 1995
Article: 58578 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!kc.tiac.net!user
From: kc@tiac.net (Kevin Crader)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Cold Frames - Glass or Plastic
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 21:54:44 -0500
Organization: The Internet Access Company
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <kc-1403952154440001@kc.tiac.net>
References: <3k4jq2$1nia@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> <1995Mar14.181056.40220@cobra.uni.edu>
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> > It is finally getting warm enough here for me to try constructing
> > my first cold frame.  I'm going to use my kids' large sandbox for
> > the base.  My question is, can I get away with using some kind of
> > plastic (preferably cheap stuff) instead of glass for the top?

Several books on propagation I've looked at suggest using Bubble pack
plastic in place of glass! I haven't tried this, but I would think you'd
have to put some support under it (such as dog wire) to keep it from
collapse under snow, squirrel, or cat weight. I intend to build a test
frame this year to try it out (and use 2 layers for my Zone 6 climate).

BTW bubble pack makes great internal insulation for the walls of the
frame, and you can put it between any pots in the frame for added
insulation.

The Arnold Arboretum sticks it (using plain old rubber cement) onto the
lower parts of their glass greenhouse panels for extra winter protection.
Transmits light, insulates, cheap...now why didn't I think of that!

Kevin


From marcscholl@delphi.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:21 EST 1995
Article: 58579 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.umass.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: Marc Scholl <marcscholl@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Plants from vegetable seeds??
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 20:51:46 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <BCwZ2S6.marcscholl@delphi.com>
References: <hQ07uoc.marcscholl@delphi.com> <3k20eu$m9f@jac.zko.dec.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com
X-To: Gerald Sacks <sacks@notime.enet.dec.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 

I appreciate the response.  Thank you very much.


From destry@netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:23 EST 1995
Article: 58580 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!destry
From: destry@netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: Yucchhh! Earwigs
Message-ID: <destryD5GIEs.HE7@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
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Status: O
X-Status: 

Liz Evangelatos (liz@pacific.net) wrote:
: Any advice out their on how to get rid of earwigs? I never see them, but   
: their like a plague eating through my yard....

   Do a version of the venerable slug-bowl....Put vegetable oil (with a 
little Tabasco sauce) in a low container in the garden...the next morning 
(supposedly, because it alswys rains whenever I do it) you should find 
many earwigs drowned in it (and not a few slugs, too). I've tried rolled 
up newspaper traps, but it's been so wet I've only gotten slugs (the 
Earwigs being warm and dry hiding in my bathroom :-(   )

--Max
-- 
--  ...with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes... <destry@netcom.com>


From somebody@webe.hooked.net Thu Mar 16 00:43:24 EST 1995
Article: 58581 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!its.hooked.net!webe.hooked.net!not-for-mail
From: somebody@webe.hooked.net (Mike Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: gardening software poll!
Date: 14 Mar 1995 18:09:44 -0800
Organization: Hooked
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Message-ID: <3k5i98$9pt@webe.hooked.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: webe.hooked.net
Status: RO
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I would like input from anyone who has used any of the available
gardening/landscaping software.  
 
There are many available, 3d landscape seems to be more popular than the
others. It says it has a library of 400 plants. I believe I saw another
package that had 1000 plants, but the graphics on the box did look as good.
 
 
 
Feel free to reply Email if you wish! 
 
-- 
\\\\ 
     ..    Just Somebody,  
(     > /  somebody@hooked.net 
      o 


From kc@tiac.net Thu Mar 16 00:43:25 EST 1995
Article: 58582 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!kc.tiac.net!user
From: kc@tiac.net (Kevin Crader)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: BUCKS COUNTY-PA  -  When to plant peas?
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 22:12:46 -0500
Organization: The Internet Access Company
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <kc-1403952212460001@kc.tiac.net>
References: <3k4ga5$jn5@nova.voicenet.com>
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X-Status: 

In article <3k4ga5$jn5@nova.voicenet.com>, Glenna Feir
<gfeir@omni.voicenet.com> wrote:

> We've just moved to Bucks County and I'd like to try planting some
> snow peas and sugar snap peas. I know they have to be planted early, 
> but how early? Should they be started indoors?
> 
> I'd also need advice on things like which annuals do well here, and 
> general gardening advice for this area.
> 
> Thanks for any help.        Glenna

I've tried to start snap peas early in jiffy strips a la Victory Garden
(an excellent book for veggie gardening), but despite intensive care and
monitoring, the direct sown peas always managed to catch up to their
pampered cousins. I've abandoned starting peas inside and applied my
efforts to tomatoes and lettuce instead.

I would think anytime after April 15th, or earlier if the soil dries out.
I'd love to hear from others in Bucks about their early planting dates. 

Central and lower Bucks is in Zone 6, with a Zone change to 5 somewhere
between Doylestown and Haycock. At least that's what I've been told by
local folk. They say it can be raining in Doylestown and snowing in
Bedminster.

Mary and I will be moving to Bucks this year - to follow our bliss, and
start a small specialty nursery!

Kevin


From gfeir@omni.voicenet.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:26 EST 1995
Article: 58583 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!usenet
From: Glenna Feir <gfeir@omni.voicenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Planting a Lawn - Advice needed
Date: 15 Mar 1995 01:39:35 GMT
Organization: DSC/Voicenet - BBS/Unix Shells/SLIP/NEWS - (215)443-7390
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3k5ggn$14p@nova.voicenet.com>
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Status: O
X-Status: 

> Newbie question - I am thinking about planting a lawn with a garden border.  
> Right now it is nothing but a jungle of fast growing weeds.  What is the best 
> time to start and any other helpful hints would be helpful, i.e., what is the 
> best way to kill the weeds before planting, etc.

We've found that starting a lawn in the fall...about the end of August....gives
much better results than starting in the spring.


Glenna


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:27 EST 1995
Article: 58584 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bulbs and moving
Date: 15 Mar 1995 11:40:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k6jnk$dlu@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <reedc-1203952137420001@ip043167.iac.net>
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Status: O
X-Status: 

In <reedc-1203952137420001@ip043167.iac.net> reedc@iac.net (Daniela Sciaky) writes: 

>
>I'm moving in July to Albany, NY environs and I have just dug up some
>mammouth Asiatic lily bulbs (here in Cincinnati, OH). Is it possible to
>preserve the bulbs for transport or should I just return them to the
>garden? How are these bulbs split?
>
>Daniela Sciaky
>

Powder them with sulphur, and store in cool, dry, sand.  Plant 
when you get to NY.  Bulbs make bulblets, which can be split
off.  The main bulb should not be split.

Chris Owens


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:29 EST 1995
Article: 58585 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How to deal with Ryegrass in garden area
Date: 15 Mar 1995 11:45:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k6k17$do7@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3k1n6l$c20@lucy.infi.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-24.ix.netcom.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In <3k1n6l$c20@lucy.infi.net> jquade@infi.net (Jeff Quade) writes: 

>
>I tilled up my vegetable garden last fall and sowed ryegrass as
>a winter cover. Now I'm having a time hoeing through the root
>mats to put in my early stuff. Anyone else use rye as a cover
>like this? I never thought it would get so well established
>over a few months; I'm afraid I'll be fighting it all summer 
>even after I till again. Anyone got suggestions? I'm in
>Richmond, Va.
>
>================ Jeff Quade == jquade@richmond.infi.net ===============
> 
>

You are supposed to turn it under about six weeks before you
are ready to plant so that it can rot, and add nitrogen back
to the soil.  Try tilling it under with a shovel, or tiller.

Chris Owens


From mitton@dave.lkg.dec.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:30 EST 1995
Article: 58586 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!usenet
From: mitton@dave.lkg.dec.com (Dave Mitton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Huggies in the Garden?
Date: 15 Mar 1995 00:19:34 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Littleton MA
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In article <3jkotm$op1@strauss.udel.edu>, pyro@strauss.udel.edu (Thomas Rich Schwerdt) writes:
>In article <3jgim0$dh6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>Molly555 <molly555@aol.com> wrote:
>>I recently had a friend tell me that she recycles the moisture retaining
>>stuff out of "tame" or unused diapers around water hungry plants.. and
>>that her plants love it.  She thinks its the same stuff that is sold by
>>some of the catalogs for the same purpose. Anybody out there
>
>it is the exact same substance -- although i think it would be much
>more expensive in the diapers ratehr than buying it as a powder
>by itself....
>
>-Tom the Melaniephile

	Except that the diaper market is a high volume mass market that
is price sensitive, vs the hobby gardner market which is the opposite.

	Think about it.  I willing to bet (I don't know) that the chemical
compounds were developed for diapers first, and the agriculteral uses came
later.  Anyone want to compare numbers?

	FWIW.
-- 
Dave Mitton,					mitton@dave.enet.dec.com



From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:31 EST 1995
Article: 58587 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Growing mimosa
Date: 15 Mar 1995 11:49:58 GMT
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In <voorlichter.36.2F646322@mi.rulimburg.nl> voorlichter@mi.rulimburg.nl (Voorlichter WP medische informatica) writes: 

>
>Hello,
>
>Last sunday I saw at the local gardencenter mimosa, it was blooming very 
>nicely.
>I know this plant of hollidays in the south of France and Spain and was 
>asking myself if it is possible to keep this plant in the north in a much 
>colder climat like The Netherlands, Germany or Belgium (I live near the 
>crossingpoint of these countries in Maastricht, The Netherlands) because it 
>is really beautiful.
>I think you have keep it at a cool place in winter but still how is growing?
>If somebody keeps them in a colder climat has any information (also about 
>its origin, etc.), I am very curious.
>Other subtropic plants like oleander, hibiscus do grow here.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Danielle
>

I have never seen a mimosa grow where they had serious winter.  A
few degrees of frost, yes; but not winter.  BTW, before you plant
one -- each of those lovely, fluffy, pink-and-white blooms will
produce 15 - 20 seeds; which are very, very happy to sprout.  Owning
a mimosa means weeding out all of the volunteers each summer.

Chris Owens


From jpiflyfish@aol.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:32 EST 1995
Article: 58588 of rec.gardens
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From: jpiflyfish@aol.com (JPIFLYFISH)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Terraced gardening
Date: 14 Mar 1995 21:14:44 -0500
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Most of the slope in my backyard is a terraced vegetable garden.  I'm
looking for others who share similar challenges with terraced gardening. 
I haven't seen much in print; can anyone offer advice or good books on the
subject?


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:33 EST 1995
Article: 58589 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: "Potting" plants
Date: 15 Mar 1995 11:53:14 GMT
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In <3k1q1p$7t1@newsbf02.news.aol.com> birdmommy@aol.com (Birdmommy) writes: 

>
>Ok, stupid question time, my 7 year old asked me and *I* don't know the
>answer!  (Gee, Mom really DOESN'T know everything)  can you (has anyone)
>ever grown tomatoes, peppers etc. INSIDE in containers in the winter?  Can
>it be done?  Will it work? Can we have fresh Tomatoes and Peppers all
>winter?
>
>
>molli
>Denver zone 5
>

If you are willing to devote enough money and effort to the 
project.  The one year that my husband and I had a greenhouse,
we grew tomatoes, peppers, and summer melons all year long.
You would not believe the power bill for the grow lights and
heaters!  Both tomatoes and peppers need warmth, a LOT of
light, and water.  You will also have to hand-pollinate unless
you keep an indoor beehive, too.

Chris Owens


From dbnorman@mail.utexas.edu Thu Mar 16 00:43:34 EST 1995
Article: 58590 of rec.gardens
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From: Dana Norman <dbnorman@mail.utexas.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?
Date: 15 Mar 1995 02:15:59 GMT
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> Subject: Re: What's BLOOMIN' in your part of the land?


Here in the Texas Hill Country <USDA Zone 8> several plants and trees are
blooming:

                Texas Redbud Tree
                 Bluebonnets
                 Daffodils
                 Peach Trees
                 Possumhaw <Ilex decidua >
                 Carolina Jessamine <vine>
                 and in my garden....Martha Gonzales <rose>


Others too, but space won't allow.

~Dana


From blw@lanl.gov Thu Mar 16 00:43:35 EST 1995
Article: 58591 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sandia.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov!newshost.lanl.gov!weintraub-mac.atdiv.lanl.gov!user
From: blw@lanl.gov (Barbara W)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Violet suppliers/Rock Garden Catalogs
Date: 13 Mar 1995 17:01:55 GMT
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barbara_skolones@quickmail.yale.edu (Barbara Skolones) wrote:

> I am looking for a supplier or suppliers of violets.  

Siskiyou Rare Plant Nursery (Oregon) sells alpines and woodland plants.
They have a few Viola ssp. Logee's Greenhouses (Connecticutt) carries
Viola odorata varieties. Both have mail order catalogs.


From cowens@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 16 00:43:37 EST 1995
Article: 58592 of rec.gardens
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From: cowens@ix.netcom.com (Christine Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Squirrels and strawberries
Date: 15 Mar 1995 11:58:58 GMT
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In <173608EE0S86.SCHOZEN@lsuvm.sncc.lsu.edu> SCHOZEN@lsuvm.sncc.lsu.edu (Stephanie) writes: 

>
>I've discovered in the last few days that there is a squirrel who has been
>dropping by for breakfast in my strawbeery pots for the past month or so.
>I grow strawberries in regular three gallon pots on my balcony in the court-
>yard side of my building. Every morning this squirrel climbs up the stairs
>and makes his way around the walkway to see if any of the berries are ripe
>(by his standards, this means slightly pinkish) and then eats them right off
>the plant. I thought my neighbors were imagining things until I opened the
>door Saturday morning just as he was arriving. So far he hasn't figured out
>how to pull the netting off the second pot to ge