From gcr@rhealiving.com Fri Aug 6 13:27:40 1999 Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:59:05 -0500 From: Donna Fezler To: 'Sustainable AG list' Subject: ATP: Finding the flow of work in the machine we call the body [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] As I investigated and discarded the germ theory and the immunosuppression theory in the rhea/ostrich chicks deaths (how can any animal successful for 40 million years be immunosuppressed?), I had developed many flow charts to help me understand the biochemistry of certain processes. One of the biochemicals that seemed incohesive and ubiquitous was ATP. It appeared everywhere, or at least it seemed to. In 1995, to get a handle on ATP I used a large piece of paper which evolved into the a flowchart of the creation, recycling, use, and degradation of ATP. It also included fatty acid or hormonal influences as I came across them. PAPS was on this chart, in its own little box, with the products that are derived from the donated sulfur: chondroitin sulfate, heparin, hyaluronic acid in connective tissue, synovial tissue, and vitreous fluid, keratan sulfate from the cornea and loose connective tissue, dermatan sulfate from the skin, and heperan sulfate form basement membranes i.e.. line the GI tract. Fast forward 18 months. In 1996 I was pressed to explain why people with Crohn's, fibromyalgia, and chronic fatigue syndrome were telling me the samples of the original rhea extract were significantly impacting their lives. I could not explain it. How could a dried meat product provide pain relief in such varied conditions? It defied logic. I had a dream which pointed to the direction. Regressing for a moment to my college days, totally uninspired by the classroom, I spent countless hours learning the intricacies of high performance cars. Racing is a euphemism for "blowing up things" supplying ample opportunity to diagnose, repair, and gain an intimate understanding of the laws of physics and applied engineering. The dream was of an IV bag of glucose going into a carburetor. I woke up and realized that I was looking at the flow of fuel in the body, the glycolytic pathway that makes ATP, rather than the flow of work, wherever that was. Even though 20+ years have passed since I torqued anything, I remembered it was the flow of work that was the significant pathway determining mechanical efficiency. So, at 2AM I awakened my engineer husband to verify what I already knew. He was not too impressed I woke him up to answer such an obvious question. I made the bold assumption that the glycolytic pathway is just the flow of fuel to the spark plug we call ATP. It is ATP that actually moves things, so the flow of work has to derive from ATP. Hence, seemed like the logical flow of work in the body. Therefore, anything that impacts ATP should impact body efficiency unless the supporting factors are increased to mitigate the energy drain. A few other people are addressing the issue. The military, sports medicine, cardiology (ATP depletion in the heart) recognize the importance. There are a few references on supplementing with nucleotides and journal letters calling for the development of laboratory test to quantify ATP status in patients, but it is only a few voices. One has to understand the importance of properly identifying the flow of work in the body to understand the impact decreased ATP can have on body processes. If we don't have the capacity to measure ATP easily in the body, how can we have the capacity to determine deleterious effects caused by its decline? The charts are on my website http:www.rhealiving.com I have to get ready for a talk on fibromyalgia tomorrow, so part three may not happen until next week. Donna Fezler To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From gcr@rhealiving.com Fri Aug 6 13:27:55 1999 Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:51:32 -0500 From: Donna Fezler To: 'Sustainable AG list' Subject: ATP part 1: fibromyalgia [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Dale and Dennis, Thank you for clarifying that 2,4 D is not 2,4 Dinitrophenol. I learned this from a medical forum from people that should have known better. Now, why should we be concerned with any product that compromises ATP? Granted the scientific studies, as designed and executed, do not point to a problem. This may be due to several of the reasons we have stated on the list already: a singe toxin being tested, the superiority of lab animal diets, and tests of short duration. The web article below, identifying an ATP depletion and recommending supplements to boost ATP production, is from someone else's site. I had not even heard of fibromyalgia when I filed the patent. Based on this, we can argue any product that further compromises ATP in the estimated 12,000,000 fibromyalgia sufferers should be further compelled to prove its safety, not the other way around. ATP production is a demonstrated problem in chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia and these individuals are not aware of substances that can aggravate the condition. Medicine is adhering to the theory that the body is attacking itself. It is really rather a ridiculous theory and defies evolutionary theory as well as the innate survival mechanism. Once one questions the validity of that theory, one can explore other options freely, such as a search for an external influence. The anti-phospholipid antibodies being produced then become a survival mechanism to prevent certain factors from being tied up or stored in cell membranes. It is a cellular choice--run at a suboptimal level or die from the poison. Can you identify this autoimmune disorder? capillary rupture bleeding gums multiple spontaneous bruises weakness sore muscles in appendages anemia irregular heartbeat difficult breathing in children there may be bone abnormalities, failure to thrive I can only imagine the attempts at finding the "problem" gene, the regimens of steroids or chemotherapy, the support groups for sufferers that would emerge as millions of dollars are poured into research to solve this insidious disease where the body is obviously attacking itself. Thank goodness the problem was solved before modern medicine got a hold of it: scurvy Detoxification The substance that defines the priority of detoxification over rebuilding is the high affinity, low capacity metabolic detoxifier phosphoadenosine phosphosulfate (PAPS). Sulfate joins with ATP (and is probably the point where the MSM contributes to pain relief) in two steps to form PAPS. At this point PAPS can donate sulfur to proteoglycans and glycoaminoglycans (rescued from obscurity and made famous by the book The Arthritis Cure). These are components of cartilage, bone, skin, cornea, arteries, loose connective tissue, joints, heart, and lungs to name of few. Basically, they are ubiquitous in the body. PAPS, as tested in lab animals, has different capacities just between the mouse and the rat. So, is it really accurate to make human determinations from lab animals? The sulfation process rids the body of toxins. However, it has a limited capacity and competes for ATP and PAPS with other body processes. It is here that we think that autoimmune disorders can have their origin as a nutritional deficiency, as reversible as scurvy as long as there is no permanent damage, and we can reduce the toxin and stress load (stress depletes ATP) on the body. Next Part 2- Finding the flow of work in the machine we call the body Part 3- Nutritionally reversing the fatal accelerated autoimmune disorders in rhea (and ostrich and turkey): the data >From an article on the net: http://www.hsv.tis.net/dymedias/a/accm/FIBRO.HTM snip WHAT CAUSES FMS? Research has not identified an exact cause for FMS. However, certain events (such as a viral or bacterial infection, an automobile accident, or the development of another disorder such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, or hypothyroidism) may precipitate its onset by awakening an underlying physiological abnormality already present.(3) METABOLIC ORIGIN FMS exhibits many of the same symptoms as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). Both conditions reveal reduced diurnal glucocorticoid levels, impaired reactivity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, and reduced ATP production.(l,5) Biopsies conducted on FMS patients indicate mitochondrial damage in the muscle, a metabolic abnormality. An impairment in glycolysis leads to an "energy crisis" with abnormal carbohydrate metabolism and phosphorylation, causing failure of thiamin activation and serotonin depletion.(l ) Blood chemistry findings of FMS patients typically show: (l,5,6,7,8) snip 1. Bland, Jeffrey S.,Ph.D. "Fibromyalgia & Myofascial Pain Syndromes." Applying New Essentials in Nutritional Medicine. Gig Harbor, WA: HealthComm International, Inc., 1995. 2. "What is Fibromyalgia Syndrome?" San Diego: National Foundation for Fibromyalgia. 3. Wilson, Janet. "Her pain now has a name: Fibromyalgia." Austin, TX: Austin American-Statesman, April 10, 1995. 4. "Understanding the invisible disability." San Diego: The National Foundation for Fibromyalgia. 5. Demitrack, Mark A., M.D. Chronic fatigue syndrome: A disease of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis? Annals of Medicine 26: 1 -3, 1994. 6. Eisinger, J., M. D., et. al. Glycolysis abnormalities in fibromyalgia. Jour. of the Amer. Cola. of Nutr. 13(2):144-148, 1994. 7. Romano, Thomas, M.D., Ph.D. and Stiller, John W., M.D. Magnesium deficiency and fibromyalgiasyndrome. Jour. of Nutr. Med. 4:165-167, 1994. 8. Yunus, Muhammad B., et. al. Plasma tryptophan and other amino acids in primary fibromyalgia. Jour. of Rheum. 19(1):90-94, 1992. And the product they sell: NUTRITIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS: ATP-PLUS #495 ATP-PLUS is a hypoallergenic vegetarian formula designed to enhance the production of ATP. ATP stores energy that is created when the body burns carbohydrates and fats in the citric acid (Kreb's) cycle. When energy is needed by the body, ATP is broken down to release the stored energy. ATP is the universal energy molecule for the body in the same way that electricity is the universal energy source for a computer. Magnesium and malic acid, both of which play a role in the citric acid cycle, are essential in both aerobic and anaerobic reactions necessary for the production of energy for all bodily functions. Both substances also have an oxygen-sparing effect. Magnesium deficiencies disrupt ATP synthesis in both the glycolytic and mitochondrial pathways. Since ATP drives the membrane pumps which transport magnesium into the cell, a vicious cycle could arise in which low ATP levels give rise to even lower intracellular magnesium, causing still further ATP reduction. Malate deficiency may be the cause of physical exhaustion. SIX TABLETS CONTAIN: Magnesium (Hydroxide)....300 mg. Malic Acid...............1200 mg. Donna Fezler http:www/rhealiving.com > If this is an attempt to argue in favour of the 'much less > toxic' 2,4-D, I think it is unfortunate. I was attempting to clarify the chemical and toxicological difference between the two chemicals, not support the use of 2,4-D. But as long as you bring it up... > interfering with mitochondrial respiration [uncoupling ATP > production] in even a minor way, has wide repercussions. Most phenolic poisons can uncouple phosphorylation, but it is all a matter of dose. If you OD on 2,4-dinitrophenol (LD50=30mg/kg), the uncoupling will kill you, no doubt about it. If you OD on aspirin (LD50=200mg/kg), the uncoupling will probably kill you, but other effects might get you first. If you OD on 2,4-D herbicide (LD50>1000mg/kg), CNS depression, not uncoupling, will probably kill you, but the petroleum distillate in the formulation might get you first. Uncoupling phosphorylation is an acute, high-dose hazard caused by gross disturbance of the mitochondrial inner membrane. There is not much reason to think, nor any evidence as far as I know, that this is an insidious environmental threat. > My own research arising from need to deal with my own chronic > fatigue makes clear to me the intimate linkage between the > respiratory pathway and the steroidogenic pathways,... Theory will only get you so far. When they actually feed high doses of 2,4-D esters or amines to mammals, the chemical doesn't seem very dangerous, not from an acute, nor from a carcinogenic perspective. The biggest danger is splashing the concentrated formulation in your eyes, which can cause real injury. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail