From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Mar 7 00:41:43 1999 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 00:41:43 -0500 (EST) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0916533782 0000000961 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From london@sunsite.unc.edu Sat Jan 16 16:33:17 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27245 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:33:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA23452 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:11:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA23404 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:10:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA05015 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:10:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.56] (pm3shep1-163-56.intrepid.net [209.190.163.56]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15653; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:10:52 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:10:52 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: DEMETER on GE Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 THE VOICE OF DEMETER Newsletter of the Demeter Association, Inc. for Certification of Biodynamic Agriculture Britt Road, Aurora, NY 13026, 315-364-5617 ph, 315-364-5224 FAX email: demeter@baldcom.net Winter 1999 No. 9 The acreage planted to GE crops is increasing rapidly. It is estimated that 35% of the U.S. corn and soybean crops grown in 1998 were derived from genetically engineered (GE) seed. This 35% is mixed in the market stream with non-GE crops by the lack of any requirement for segregation or labeling. Tests done by Dr. John Fagan at his Genetic I.D. lab in late 1997 on several corn and soy products found only one that did not contain GE material. That one- was a certified organic soymilk. Corn chips, baby formula, soft drinks, veggie meat substitutes can now unfortunately be assumed to be adulterated with GE material. The Demeter Association, takes the position that genetic engineering applied to agriculture is not only unacceptable, but hazardous. Pur main concerns are as follows: 1) Genetically engineered plant genesI can.cross with wild and domestic relatives, thus over time having the capability to change the genetic makeup of at least some of the world's vegetation. This will likely lead to a loss of native genes, thus diminishing the gene pool. Some plants will contain new genetic material that will result in undesired traits. 2) Insects targeted by plant species engineered to contain built-in insecticide will adapt to the pesticide. This will affect the economic viability of organic and Biodynamic operations. The pesticide most often engineered into plants is Bt (bacillus thuringiensis), a bacterium which affects only the larval state of certain insects and as such has been a mainstay of organic pest control for many years. The eco will have to adjust to plants, insects, and bacteria with new traits. Beneficial insects meanwhile will suffer decline when their paths cross with the new insecticide-expressing plants. 3) A plant so engineered will contain insecticide over its entire lifespan, and even beyond as it falls to the ground to decay. This is a radically different situation from external applications of an insecticide such as Bt which may only be effective for several hours. These engineered plant/pesticide combos will therefore be in our food. We do not know the consequences of this. 4) Gene manipulation requires the use of a Marker to determine if the method was successful. The marker that appears to be most often used is an antibiotic resistant gene. Thus the environment will be exposed to more antibiotic resistance. The result could be resistant bacteria and human bacterial illnesses which antibiotics will not touch. The purpose of much genetic engineering of seed-stocks is to develop plants tolerant to herbicides. Clearly this means that more chemicals will be used on farms, more chemical pollution will migrate into our water supplies, more chemical residues will accumulate in plants, which we then 6) GE plants will contain DNA from undisclosed and non-food sources. Most such crops contain randomly spliced foreign genetic material from viruses, bacteria or other organisms which have never been a part of the human diet. The consequences are unclear. 7) Biotech companies can now breed sterility into their seeds, thanks to a USDA patent. Potentially the world's farmers Must pUrchase each year's seed from biotech companies--; instead of saving their own. Regional self-sufficiency will be history. Nature's cycle of seed to seed will be lost. Biotech companies will have enormous control over our food supply. 8) Adequate testing is not being done. Biotech companies are rushing their products to market at lightning speed. In the process negative results from limited testing are not brought to the public. We are all unconsenting test subjects 9) A widely used common seed supply can spell disaster when a pest penetrates the plant's weakness. The more narrow the crop diversity, the more susceptible is the world to crop failure and hunger. 10) There are no long term benefits to humanity in spite of much publicity to the contrary. For example: a) Cows injected with bovine growth hormone live shorter, more disease ridden lives. Humans who drink the milk are suspected to be in more danger of breast and prostate cancer. b) There are already many stories of crop failure from use of GE seed. These include cotton farmers in the southern U.S., potato growers in Eastern Europe, soybean growers in the U.S. midwest. In addition there are reports from Canada of GE oilseed rape (Camara) and from the UK of corn crosspollinating with nearby non-GE crops of the same species. In the UK an organic farmer apparently lost certification following an incident of cross-pollination. The UK food safety minister is being urged to consider statutory GE-free buffer zones around organic farms. c) An immediate danger is the Roundup tolerant soybean of Monsanto. These soybeans may show a high concentration of Roundup herbicide. 11) The effects of releasing GE crops into the environment are irreversible. 12) Biotech companies promoting this technology apparently have no interest in what might happen to us or to the environment. For these many reasons, the Demeter Association has made genetically manipulated materials off-limits for certification. Most other certifiers have also taken a stand against GE. This is one very important area where the organic certifier community stands for protection of the consumer. Individual farmers cannot require the use of non-GE ingredients when their raw products go to the manufacturer. Certifiers can require this. U.S. consumers have not demanded labeling of GE foods. Only organic certifiers have taken a stand. Some certifiers take more of a stand than others. Our guidelines state in part: "Demeter will not permit the use of transgenic plant or animal products or any derivative in food, feed, or fiber production." But does this apply to processing aids? PAs are ingredients used in food manufacturing which are removed from the final food product. Grain ethanol is one example. Some certifiers allow non-organic sourcing of PAs. Since non-organic more and more means that genetic engineering is present, as in corn used to make ethanol, can this be justified? Use of non-organic PAs, if derived from GE material, or if GE material is used in their manufacture, supports a technology that Demeter does not want to support. This is a hard thing to monitor since manufacturers of secondary ingredients and PAs do not seem very concerned about genetic engineering. And it is a hard stand for Demeter to take if other certifiers do not support the same standard. Consumers need to step up to the plate .... in this case the dinner plate. More wakefulness and more involvement of consumers to demand full disclosure in labeling would at least give us a choice in how we use our food dollars. [Fishberry is taken from a sketch done for Demeter by John McKenzie. A GE berry with fish genes to prevent freezing during cold weather may one day be at your produce stand.] Other GE News Physicians and Scientists for Responsible Application of Science and Technology (PSRAST), a global network, has issued the following statement: "We think that the increasingly powerful influence of industrial interests on science and on approval procedures represents an important threat to the future of the world. This is aggravated by a high degree of specialization along with too little of interdisciplinary and holistic thinking and awareness among most scientific experts. This causes an inability to judge the consequences of a new technology in a comprehensive and realistic way. "In the case of GE foods, there has been a serious neglect of important facts in the expert recommendations underlying approval by international and national regulatory bodies including FAO, FDA, and the EU commission. The result has been a concession to industrial interests at the expense of consumer and ecological safety.... "The PSAGEF campaign for a moratorium (on genetic engineering) will continue. Our focus will remain on the GE foods issue, as it appears to be the most immediate and potentially serious threat." =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy high-value food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org. In the body of the message include (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com (to remove yourself from the list, send 'unsubscribe bdnow' to listproc@envirolink.org> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@sunsite.unc.edu Sun Jan 17 13:58:48 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07179 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11666; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:51:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11440 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:50:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.145] (pm3shep3-163-145.intrepid.net [209.190.163.145]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23205 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:50:53 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19990117120150.30e78a56@swva.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:50:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: American Seed Trade Association Meeting Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 No word from Johnny's Selected Seeds on their stance on GE seeds, which is to say, they are making their ambivalance both loud and clear. It won't be that hard for me to not order from them this year, in fact, I'm buying entirely BD seeds (from reputable BD growers!) to the extent that it is possible. Does anyone know of a BD source for GREEN ENVY or any of the other 'edible' SOY BEANS in bulk? Thanks -Allan igg@igg.com From london@sunsite.unc.edu Sun Jan 17 11:22:03 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04907 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:22:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28407; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:15:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ctc.swva.net (ctc.swva.net [165.166.123.19]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28346 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:15:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (ctca237.vthokies.net [206.153.172.237] (may be forged)) by ctc.swva.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA24250; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:15:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:15:59 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990117120150.30e78a56@swva.net> X-Sender: mgardner@swva.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org, "bdnow@envirolink.org" , "OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU" From: malcolm ian gardner Subject: Re: American Seed Trade Association Meeting Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 At 06:28 PM 1/16/99 -0800, jrei@uswest.net wrote: >Next week I will be leaving for the annual convention of the >American Seed Trade Association meeting in CA. During that >meeting there will be several policy meetings on the >continued use of genetic manipulation in the vegetable seed >industry. There will also be a meeting to put a policy in >place that will decide whether or not GM varieties will be >allowed into the All American Selections vegetable trials. > >This meeting brings togeather all of the major vegetable >seed producers from around the world. >I would like to hear some comments to take with me to the >meeting. > >Joel Reiten >Territorial Seed Company Here's a heretical thought. Why not let the GM varieties in, particularly into the All American Vegetable Trials? I'm not exactly sure what these trials involve, but if they include criteria such as taste, nutritional balance, all-around vigor, or even beauty, I say let them try to compete! What is needed is an objective evaluation of these creations as _whole_ plants. I suspect that, as with most technological innovations, specialized success (e.g., disease resistance, or longer shelf life) has come at the expense of the integrity of the whole plant organism (not to mention the whole ecological and social environment). The key here, however, is objectivity. Assuming the trial process is presently fair and objective, once you include GM varieties, you may open the door to very powerful corrupting pressures. How well will the people in the American Seed Trade Organization be able to resist six figure bribes? Or withdrawal by certain sponsors or advertisers? Or dead cats in their mailboxes? These things would have to be thoroughly discussed in advance. In any case, I don't think this particular genie is going to go back into the bottle. So the only way to contain it is with (accurate) information about the real nature of this genie (pun intended :). Sincerely yours, Malcolm From london@sunsite.unc.edu Mon Jan 18 12:02:30 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24529 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21101; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:52:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20843 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:50:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <35014-2099>; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:50:31 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:50:30 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: Re: OFF Positive Y2K action from organic farmers (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 Hi All; I thought you would be interested in this Organic farm article for the Washington Tilth Journal... ---Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia emailav204@chebucto.ns.ca Preparing for the Year 2000 by Mark Musick The following article has been submitted for publication in the Washington Tilth journal, January, 1999. Tilth is a Northwest network of organic farmers and gardeners devoted to sustainable agriculture and urban ecology. For more information contact: musick@pikeplacemarket.org (Mark Musick is the farm director of Seattle's Pike Street Market, one of the world's most famous public markets. He is a long-time leader of the nation's sustainable agriculture movement. The points he's making here are of critical interest to the American people. Mark grants permission to distribute this article. -- Larry Shook ) Tilth people have an important role to play in preparing our homes and communities for what may be a stormy few years. After more than two decades of nurturing bonds between people and the Earth, Tilth members are well positioned to assist our families, friends and neighbors in responding to potential impacts of the Year 2000 Computer Problem (Y2K). We are also in a position to help ensure that, rather than a day of chaos January 1, 2000 will be a day of planetary celebration. Whether or not you own a computer, it is becoming increasingly clear that Y2K threatens an economic and social crisis for farmers and consumers alike. I urge you to learn more about Y2K and contribute what you can to minimizing its potential negative impacts. (See box, "Get Informed About Y2K.") To save computer space, starting in the 1950s programmers routinely left out the first two digits for years in clocks that now control computer systems around the world. As the clocks roll over from December 31, 1999 to January 1, 2000, it is anticipated that many of the computers and imbedded chips that control global food, energy, transportation, health care, defense, water and sanitation systems will fail. Time has run out to fix them all. While the full consequences of Y2K are unknown, what is certain is that in the coming year many more people will see the absurdity of our globalized, petroleum-based food system in which the average unit of food travels 1,300 miles from producer to consumer. BE PREPARED "Experts" differ widely on what may happen when clocks strike Midnight on December 31, 1999-from a minor bump in the road to global chaos. The truth will probably lie somewhere in between, but it's important to prepare for as many contingencies as possible. Washington State Emergency Management officials are approaching Y2K as if preparing for a major earthquake. In the event of any major disaster, individual families and local communities must be prepared to be on their own for a minimum of 3 days to a week before government agencies mobilize to fully respond. The basic message from the federal government is, "Don't look to us for help." As far back as 1960, computer scientists began sounding the alarm about the impending Y2K crisis, but they were steadfastly ignored. Last spring Bill Clinton finally set up the President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion. While hoping for the best, behind the scenes senior officials are preparing for disruptions of our nation's technological infrastructure. In a US Information Agency Y2K teleconference held December 17, 1998, Janet Abrams, Executive Director of the President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion, revealed that the US government anticipates "a large series of mild to moderate disruptions across the country.... We are stressing to our local officials that they're going to have to take care of these problems on their own." The federal government will have too many problems of its own to deal with. That became evident with a January 6, 1999 Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) alert urging all public agencies and the general public "to get ready now for Y2K." Over the next few months FEMA will be mobilizing emergency management agencies around the country to develop contingency plans. Y2K will hit computer systems and embedded chips all over the world-all at the same time. As White House Y2K czar John Koskinen said, "We could have, if not the equivalent, something that is very much like a hurricane on the East Coast, an earthquake in San Francisco, and flooding on the Mississippi River all at once." Add to the list typhoons in India, avalanches in the Alps, and tsunamis in Japan. Y2K will hit every industrialized nation as the world enters the year 2000. Speaking about his agency's response to Y2K, USDA Secretary Dan Glickman noted that the work of "tens of thousands of people" is required to feed American families. "I must confess," he said, "that until recently I hadn't thought very much about the connection between food on our tables and computers. But, as a new millennium approaches, that link is becoming all too clear....We are facing the potential of serious disruptions because of the problem." Environmentalist David Brower has said he doesn't think it would be such a bad thing if computers lost their minds and confused the year 2000 for 1900. The difference is that today, like it or not, we are inescapably part of a culture in which all major life support systems are governed by computers. Yes, within a few days, weeks, months---or years---these systems will be repaired. But in the meantime there could be severe disruption and suffering. This is where Tilth people come in. News about the potential impacts of Y2K is galvanizing increased concern for personal and community self-reliance, both in this country and around the world. Generally living closer to the land, Tilth farmers and gardeners are often in good positions to provide for their own needs and link with their neighbors to build strong, resilient communities. FOOD SECURITY The frustrating thing about Y2K is that we won't know its full impact until January of next year. "This daunting challenge," says Spokane writer Larry Shook, "is not unlike floating on a river with a waterfall and a point of no return beyond which exit is impossible. The difference: with Y2K we won't know if rapids or a thundering cataract awaits us until we're beyond the point of no return." What may lie on the other side of that "point of no return"? One of the people who has looked hard at potential worst case scenarios is biologist Geri Guidetti, founder of the Ark Institute (PO Box 142, Oxford, OH 45056). "Over the past three years," writes Guidetti, "I have been sounding an alarm that our food supply is much less safe and secure than any of us can imagine, largely due to vulnerabilities wrought by the same technology that has brought us so much food. We've created a monster, and the monster's about to get sick." Guidetti's December, 1998 "Food Supply Update" (www.arkinstitute.com ) is both sobering and frightening. In it she reviews the abysmal preparedness levels of federal agencies charged with securing our food supply. Y2K problems for farmers include potential shortages of fuel to run farm equipment, failures of embedded chips in tractors and combines, and shortages of fertilizers and pesticides if chemical companies are shut down by computer failures. Of particular concern to Guidetti is the potential for seed shortages. "Our entire human food supply is based on plants and plant seeds," she notes. "New, hybrid and non-hybrid seeds produced in 1999 for the year 2000 crop may not reach all who need it due to transportation and distribution breakdowns....Distribution of diesel fuel and gasoline supplies to run farm machinery may be undependable. Seasonal planting deadlines would be missed. Seeds or no seeds, many crops would not get planted, and that would prove deadly for 2001. That year would be worse than 2000." TILTH'S RESPONSE TO Y2K If Guidetti is even close to right, we have our work cut out for us starting right now. Long before midnight next December 31st each of us needs to reach out to strengthen linkages with our families, neighborhoods and larger communities to ensure food security for all. As the year 2000 approaches, increased fear of disruption or even collapse of our global economy and infrastructure is likely to lead to increased interest in securing food supplies. There are many practical ways in which Tilth people can respond. First, farmers should anticipate greater demand for storage crops next fall by planting more potatoes, squash, carrots, beets, etc. This is also the year to build root cellars to provide for long term storage and extending your market season. Food preservation and storage will be of major interest this year, and Tilth people can take the lead in teaching people about canning, root cellaring, and other means of putting food by. In addition to stored food, farmers and gardeners west of the Cascades have an opportunity to make 1999 the "Year of the Winter Garden." With Binda Colebrook's Winter Gardening in the Maritime Northwest and Seattle Tilth's Maritime Northwest Garden Guide, we now have the knowledge of crop varieties and timing necessary to produce a year-round abundance of fresh vegetables in our region. Come January, 2000 hundreds of gardens and small farms throughout Western Washington and Oregon can be filled with cabbages, kale, leeks, carrots, parsnips, broccoli, onions, and cold-hardy winter greens. This would go a long way toward alleviating concerns about shortages of fresh vegetables next winter. Responding to Guidetti's concern about impending seed shortages, Tilth people should also join world-wide efforts to grow and preserve open-pollinated seeds. In addition to storage crops and winter vegetables, this is also the year to plant a "seed garden" to help save our genetic heritage (see "Millennium Seed Garden" box). Note that seeds are likely to be in short supply this year. Local seed companies are already reporting a sharp increase in demand, so I urge you to order your seeds for the year now. As more and more consumers seek to secure their food supplies,1999 is also going to be a great year to promote Community Supported Agriculture. Individual CSAs are encouraged to reach out and include more consumers. More and more farmers are also forming cooperative CSAs, greatly expanding the potential impact of the movement. Throughout the season CSA farms can be educating their customers about food preservation. Some are also planning on providing special "Thanksgiving Shares" next November for people who want additional reserves for winter storage. The CSA movement is a powerful tool for building support for local agriculture. Not only do CSAs directly link producers with consumers, but they're also a great way to spread the word about the necessity of preserving both farmers and farmland. In the process, they foster a greater sense of security and self-reliance throughout the region. Everyone can contribute to the process of creating what are being called "resilient communities." Tilth people have an abundance of experience and skills to share, and many people will be looking to us for guidance and leadership in the coming year. Tilth people are already taking leadership roles in assisting their communities in preparing for Y2K. Groups on Whidbey Island and in Spokane, Washington are undertaking projects which are excellent models of positive community responses to potential infrastructure breakdowns. South Whidbey Tilth members are actively involved in what they're calling the "Community Resilience Project." In addition to hosting Y2K Forums to inform residents about the issues, they have organized into more than a dozen action groups to inventory their island's resources through a process called Community Asset Mapping. Sectors they are addressing include transportation, communications, public safety, water, financial services, and health care. Whidbey Island Tilth members Prescott and Michael Seraphinoff are taking responsibility for the energy and food sectors of the asset mapping. In Spokane a grassroots organization has created the "Y2K Neighborhood Project." Their goal is to prepare Spokane County, house-by-house, block-by-block, to be ready for whatever may happen when the "millennium bug" bites. Dr Kent Hoffman, a Spokane psychotherapist, is one of the initiators of the Y2K Neighborhood Project. According to Dr Hoffman, "Y2K Neighborhood is setting out to create miniature villages among every five or six houses on every block in the county. It's a way in which we can come together, plan together, look out for each other during this time of uncertainty." "All we're really talking about," he said, "is polishing up our neighborhood skills." Farmer preparedness for Y2K will be one of the central themes of the annual Washington Farmers Markets Conference, set for March 1 & 2. Larry Shook, editor of Awakening, the Upside of Y2K, will be one of our keynote speakers. The conference will also include special workshops on storage crops and on-farm storage, greenhouse production, winter gardening, seed production and saving, and Community Supported Agriculture. I hope that preparation for Y2K will be on the agenda of all farm conferences and workshops this winter and spring to mobilize the involvement of farmers in community resilience projects throughout the country. I see Y2K as an opportunity to wake people up to things that already need to be done-preserving farmland, supporting local farmers, and striving for greater regional self-reliance. The more that neighbors work and grow together the better off everyone will be, whether or not disaster strikes. Expanding CSAs, strengthening bonds between producers and consumers, growing more storage crops and winter vegetables, preserving food and saving seeds---if we do all these things, we will definitely have cause to celebrate the Year 2000! BOX GET INFORMED ABOUT Y2K A flood of reliable information is now becoming available about the causes and potential consequences of Y2K. The first step in formulating your personal response is to get fully informed. Here are some good starting points: Y2K Citizen's Action Guide, Preparing yourself, your family, and your neighborhood for the year 2000 computer problem and beyond, by the Utne Reader. This is the single best tool for education and action. It is available for $4.95 everywhere the Utne Reader is sold (although you may have to ask for it). To help spread Y2K awareness in your community, order 50 copies at a time for $57.50 from Bulk Orders, Utne Reader, 1624 Harmon Place, Minneapolis, MN 55403. Awakening: The Upside of Y2K, edited by Judy Laddon, Tom Atlee and Larry Shook, is an excellent overview of the technical, economic and social implications of the Y2K Bug. It emphasizes positive steps individuals and communities can take to minimize adverse impacts. $13 post paid from The Printed Word, 4327 S Perry, Spokane, WA 99203, (509) 747-8776. They are also a source of on-going information about Spokane's Y2K Neighborhood Project. "Y2K: So Many Bugs...So Little Time," Peter de Jager, Scientific American, January, 1999. An authoritative current report on the status of Y2K preparations. I hope it is widely read. "Farming & the Year 2000 Problem," Agriculture & Natural Resources Fact Sheet #512, WSU Cooperative Extension King County, 700 Fifth Ave, Suite 3700, Seattle, WA 98104-5037, phone (206) 296-3900. Excellent overview of the Y2K problem. Includes basic action steps and sources of additional information. "Farmers Markets in the Year 2000," Washington Farmers Markets Conference, March 1 & 2, 1999. This conference will include several presentations on farmer preparedness for Y2K. For details contact Mark Musick, Pike Place Market, 85 Pike Street, Rm 500, Seattle, WA 98101, phone: (206) 682-7453, e-mail: musick@pikeplacemarket.org. South Whidbey Tilth members Prescott and Michael Seraphinoff can provide information on the South Whidbey Community Resilience Project. They can be reached at 3830 S 530 E, Greenbank, WA 98253, (360) 678-4168. www.y2kcommunity.org is one of the best starting points to learn about Y2K on the web. It includes current articles and links to other sites. BOX PLANT A MILLENNIUM VICTORY GARDEN! One of the most important things Tilth farmers and gardeners can do is grow our own seeds. By growing open pollinated varieties, each of us can help ensure viable supplies of seeds in the coming years. Inspired by Tom John's proposal for "Millennium Victory Gardens" in the Territorial Seed Catalog, Lana Baker, seed specialist with Molbak's Seattle Garden Center (1600 Pike Place, Seattle, WA 98101, phone 206-448-0431), compiled the following list of her recommended varieties. While growers will debate their favorites, and these varieties may not be suitable throughout the region, please consider this list as a starting point for creating your own seed garden. Asian Greens - Ching Chang, Mizuna Beans - Blue Lake Pole, Fava, Jacob's Cattle Beets - Detroit Dark Red, Albina Verduna, Golden Broccoli - Waltham, Nutri-Bud, Purple Sprouting Brussels Sprouts - Rubine Red, Long Island Cabbage - Early Jersey Wakefiel, Danish Ballhead Carrots - Red Core Chantenay, Armstrong Collards - Champion Corn - Bantam Corn Salad - Mache Cucumber - Sweet Marketmore 76, Lemon Cucumber Eggplant - Imperial Black Beauty Kale - Russian Red Leeks - King Richard, Giant Mussleburg Lettuce - Black Seeded Simpson, Four Seasons, Winter Density Onions - Breakthru, Walla Walla Peas, Shelling - Pioneer, Alderman, Maestro Peas, Snap - Sugar Daddy, Sugar Snap Peas, Sugar - Oregon Sugar Pod II, Oregon Giant Peppers - Early California Wonder, Chile Relleno, Cayenne Pumpkins - Small Sugar, Rouge vif D'Etampes Spinach - Winter Bloomsdale Squash, Summer - Bennings Green Tint, Black Beauty Zucchini Squash, Winter - Red Kuri, Butternut, Delicata, Blue Hubbard, Sweet Meat Swiss Chard - Rainbow Mix Tomatoes - Brandywine, Stupice, Mortgage Lifter, Seattle's Best of All, Yellow Pear, Sweetie Watermelon - Sugar Baby BOX CREATING ABUNDANCE Seventeen years ago Tilth published a sourcebook for sustainable agriculture called The Future Is Abundant. In mid December of last year a group of Tilth and Permaculture activists met to discuss the need and potential for a sequel for the new millennium. Out of those discussions came a proposal to produce a new sourcebook with the working title, Creating Abundance, Ecological Agriculture in the Pacific Northwest. In the nearly two decades since the original book's publication, there has been an explosion of experience and information in all aspects of sustainable agriculture. Creating Abundance will draw on the wealth of knowledge of Tilth people throughout the region. To make the process of researching and writing the new edition immediately useful in the context of Y2K, a proposal is being drafted to publish Creating Abundance in both book form and an interactive web site. If you would like more information on Creating Abundance, contact Mark Musick at the Pike Place Market. Tom Atlee * The Co-Intelligence Institute * Oakland, CA http://www.co-intelligence.org * http://www.co-intelligence.org/Y2K.html Sheri Nakken Coordinator - Western Nevada County Y2K Preparedness Network **VISIT OUR NEW BOOKSTORE ONLINE*** http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/wncy2k.htm PO Box 1563, Nevada City, California 95959 Phone 530-478-1242 Business Owner - Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours Broadcaster/DJ/Reporter - KVMR FM, Nevada City, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. From london@sunsite.unc.edu Mon Jan 18 13:44:14 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01647 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:44:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05366; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:34:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04840 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:30:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.75]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA2467; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:22:02 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990118103024.00b5a1b0@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:30:24 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Re: re silica Cc: Maltman Family In-Reply-To: <36941D66.88D5FCE9@better.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Dear Sue, At 09:35 PM 1/6/99 -0500, Maltman Family wrote: >My Solution: I had read about polymerized water ( not Kurt Vonnegut's >"Ice-9") and when I saw some for sale at the local farmer's market I >decided to try it out. I bought a little bag of crystal powder for $5 >and made a big gallon of the jello-like stuff. Then I went up to the >roof and added it to the soil in the containers by drilling 6" holes in >the dirt next to the stems down to the roots, pouring in the goop, and >pluging the holes with compost. The soil stayed wet for days. As I >water, the polymerized stuff binds up more molecules and holds it in >the soil, replacing itself as the roots drink it up. Amazing. I bet >you could add it to your houseplants and then leave town for a month. I have heard of polymerized water in other contexts before but never in this connection. Can you give me more information on this product and how to obtain it? What exactly is it? Who makes it? What claims do they make? The ORMUS elements will form a polymer of water too. Perhaps the phenomena is related. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 Stupidity got us into this mess -- why can't it get us out? From london@sunsite.unc.edu Mon Jan 18 19:36:11 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07956 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA23933; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:27:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23634 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:25:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <35413-2092>; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:26:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:26:20 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re:Stinging Nettles In-Reply-To: <199901182044.MAA01592@f70.hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 Hi Michael; On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, you wrote: > > Urtica -Stinging Nettles > > The most curious thing I have found is that one of my dogs, during > winter and early spring, when the nettle has dried, will Chew it. I > still haven't figured out how he can do that, or better still, why? One of the specific indications for using the remedy Urtica Urens (diocia, has similar if not identical properties) is congestion/discharge from intestinal mucous surfaces, so its cleansing properties in the urinary tract would probably have a relationship to the innate ability which animals(when allowed) have to search/graze for appropiate herbs and plants when needed. Urtica U prevents calculi as it acts by thickening the urine which contains deposits of urates and other salts and also promotes normal urination. ------------------------ Jane Sherry sent me this interesting snip on Nettles: > Nettle note: Urtica is apparently also very efficient in the >filtering of metals, minerals and waste materials from contaminated >water, storing these substances in its plant fibers and cleansing water >supplies. It is an excellent candidate for organic waste treatment and >detoxification systems. >Many of the materials it collects can be recovered afterward from the >dead plant matter. ----------------- In Lecture 5 Steiner mentions that Nettles like iron, and planting nettles in out of the way spots can do a great deal in freeing the upper layer of soil from the influence of iron. He mentions that it does not get rid of the iron but undermines it affect on other plants. He says more on the subject but we can wait until we get to that Lecture for discussion..... ---Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia email:av204@chebucto.ns.ca From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Jan 24 18:08:33 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA29021 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:08:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA08900; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:02:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from send206.yahoomail.com (send206.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16691 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:45:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990124204544.7365.rocketmail@send206.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.205.40.10] by send206.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:45:44 PST Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:45:44 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: rosecrutions,anthropo etc. To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 dear all, I have been reading various comments about the ego/spirit and the various elements. I have also gotten the idea from Glen Atkinson and others that there may be different views and or practices from various groups with different perspectives on these matters. Though I live in Charlottesville va. near the Univ of Va (thomas Jefferson country) library, I have not found much info on the rosecrutions, and am left only able to study the ancient egyptian views from archaelogical books etc. Do any of you all have things you want to share with me about the philosophical/spiritual/material views in regard to similarities or differences. Also, I have been unable to find anything specific of rosecrutions, even after viewing their website. Maybe they are waiting for my monetary contributioon. I am just as much interested in modern groups as ancient views. Anyone with an opinion or internet link to share can write me directly or if it seems relevant, share it with the group. bruce ritchie edophan@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Jan 24 21:09:08 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02103 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA11436; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:02:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02026 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:09:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-78.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.78]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA28906; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:10:10 +1100 Message-ID: <00ce01be47ff$697a2e00$4e431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: "Peter Proctor" , Subject: Re: Biodynamic newsletters and journals Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:09:16 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 Dear Allan, The address and phone no etc for Australia need correcting, see below. Thanks, NZ is also changed, see Gareth Bodles email. Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: steved@ncatark.uark.edu Date: Saturday, 23 January 1999 3:33 pm Subject: Re: Biodynamic newsletters and journals >IN a similar vein, I have this list of biodynamic associations which >started wit the one in the back of Peter Proctor's "Grasp the Nettle." If >you can fill in the any of the missing associations, email addresses, or >give current officers, please do. I'll get this information mounted on the >web page soon. -Allan > > >New Zealand The BioDynamic Farming and Gardening Association in New >Zealand (Inc.), PO Box 306, Napier, phone/fax 068352428 > >Australia The Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Association, PO Box 54, Bellingen. 2454 NSW Australia P/F + 2 66558551 email poss@midcoast.com.au > >USA Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association, Inc, Building 1002B, >Thoreau Center, The Presidio, P.O. Box 29135, San Francisco, CA >94129-0135, 415-561-7797, 415-561-7796 Fax, biodynamic@aol.com >Canada Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Society of British Columbia, Skimikin >Road, CDN-Chase, BC VOE 1MO, phone 604 679 8052, fax 604 679 2932 > >Germany Forschungsring fur biol.-dyn. Wirtschaftsweise, Brandschneise 2, >D-64295 Darmstadt, phone (06155) 84690, fax (06155) 846 911 > >Great Britain Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association, Woodman Land, Clent, >GB-Stourbridge, West Midlands DY9 9PX, phone 562 884 933, fax 562 886 219 > >Ireland Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association in Ireland, Ballinroan House, >IRL-Kiltegan, Co. Wicklow, fax 508 81006 > >South Africa Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association of Southern Africa PO >Box 115, Paulshof, South Africa 2056, phone 11 8031688 > > > >=========================================================================== > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food >that promotes human development. > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > >listproc@envirolink.org > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > >subscribe bdnow > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 01:25:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA05961 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:25:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA18032; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:18:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17913 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:17:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA05917 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:22:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA21420 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:18:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:18:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: New Soil Quality discussion forum (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 I have created a forum called SOIL QUALITY (soil-quality@franklin.oit.unc.edu) for discussion of such topics as soil quality, soil science, soil amendments, minerals, micronutrients, macronutrients, compost, rock powders, microbiological innoculants, application of manure/seaweed/grass/grain/bean/weed, cover crops, tillage, irrigation, biodynamics, blended fertilizers and anything else appropriate. Access; ------- general information is available at: http://metalab.oit.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt (subscribe/read/post) http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=soil-quality&text_mode (subscribe/unsubscribe via email) send email to lyris@franklin.oit.unc.edu in message text include the following words: subscribe soil-quality (posting to the list subscribers) send email to soil-quality@franklin.oit.unc.edu (read/post via newsgroup) news://franklin.oit.unc.edu/soil-quality Lawrence F. London, Jr., list administrator http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 17:07:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24291 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:07:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29600; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:00:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29238 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.228] (pm3mbr2-66-146.intrepid.net [206.102.66.146]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03738 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:58:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:57:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Consequences of Chemical Farming Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 [The merits of organic, biodynamic & other "alternative" techniques are only half of the argument for changing from so-called "modern" agriculture. The other half is mounting evidence of how the agri-industry system (fertilizers, biocides & GE) is bringing us to a toxic dead-end. Here's an Associated Press article carried in today's Washington Post. --John Spencer, Herndon VA] Midwest Farm Runoff Causes 'Dead Zone' in Gulf, Scientists Say By Paul Recer Associated Press As printed in The Washington Post Monday, January 25, 1999; Page A07 ANAHEIM, Calif., Jan. 24--A 7,000-square-mile dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico caused by the runoff of fertilizer is getting worse and the only solution may be to change farming practices throughout the Corn Belt, according to scientists. Every spring and summer, nitrogen from agricultural fertilizer washes down the Mississippi River and into the northern Gulf of Mexico. The nutrient-rich waters trigger a bloom of algae that strips the water of oxygen. Researchers attending the national meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science this weekend said that by midsummer, an area of the Gulf extending from Louisiana to Texas becomes so oxygen-deprived that most fish and shrimp escape to healthier waters, leaving behind a vast "dead zone." Nancy N. Rabalais of Louisiana State University said the average size of the dead zone has doubled in size since 1992 and is now persisting from May until October in some areas. Shrimp, menhaden and other valuable species have not been affected because these animals simply flee the bad water, said Rabalais. But bottom-dwellers, such as worms, starfish and some single-celled animals, are killed. At the same time, some microbes that prefer low-oxygen waters explode, forming a white, cotton-like mass that floats on the surface. "We don't know what the long-term effects of this will be on the ecology of the gulf," said Rabalais. "The hypoxia [lack of oxygen] has decimated a number of organisms living in the sediments" and such a change is bound to affect the ecology of the gulf, she said. The Mississippi River drains about 40 percent of the United States and carries more than a million tons of nitrogen, according to U.S. Geological Survey figures. Some of the nitrogen dumped into the gulf comes from natural sources and from cities and industry, but "agriculture uses 6.5 million metric tons of nitrogen a year and is clearly a major player." Doering said farmers could reduce nitrogen runoff by 20 percent by changing farm management practices. He said the goal could be reached if farmers stopped fertilizing in the fall and if major wetlands were restored along the Mississippi River watershed. Wetlands retain the nitrogen and the chemical then tends to disappear into the atmosphere, Doering said. The wetlands also would increase wildlife habitat and improve water quality. Using less fertilizer would reduce crop yield, and a 20 percent reduction is about the limit before there would be serious economic consequences for farmers and the nation, according to a scientific assessment by Doering and others. "Beyond 20 percent," Doering said, "there is a serious disruption in terms of high food prices, an increasing drop in exports and a loss of farmland." Copyright 1999 The Associated Press =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 17:15:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24675 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:15:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00951; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-punt-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.36]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00432 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:05:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 104u9d-00040l-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:06:46 +0000 Message-ID: <36ACBAA2.98F35803@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:40:34 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BDNow Subject: GMOs in the South Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 FORWARDED The Debate on Genetically Modified Organisms: Relevance for the South By Robert Tripp at the Overseas Development Institute, UK Genetically modified organisms (GMOs) are at the centre of extraordinary controversy. The implications of these debates must be addressed by policy makers in the South, according to the latest Overseas Development Institute Briefing Paper. Concerns about GMOs include environmental impact, food safety, the control of agricultural technology, and the direction of agricultural change. Some of these issues require a strengthening of current regulatory systems while others can be addressed by well-informed agricultural policy and legal reform. But adequate regulatory and policy responses depend upon the generation and utilisation of good quality information. http://www.oneworld.org/odi/briefing/1_99.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 18:07:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25881 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:07:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA07833; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:01:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercurio.racsa.co.cr (mercurio.racsa.co.cr [207.1.120.69]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07438 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:58:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sol.racsa.co.cr (nheredia2-a11.racsa.co.cr [196.40.10.73]) by mercurio.racsa.co.cr (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18831 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:01:49 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36AD13A6.3D427184@sol.racsa.co.cr> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:00:22 -0800 From: Henry Karczynski Organization: Valle Orquideas SA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Biodynamic orgs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Thanks for this information, Tony. > > Does anyone have an address, etc for the BRAZILIAN BD group? > > -Allan The Brazilian BD group is as follows; Instituto Biodinamico de Desenvolvimiento Rural Caixa Postal 321-18603-970 Botuccatu / SP - Brazil fone/fax + 55 14 822 5066 / + 55 14 975 9011 fax + 55 14 822 3848 e mail: abd@ax.ibase.org.br Hank Karczynski From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 19:53:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27619 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:53:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA22150; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:47:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mnsinc.com (relay1.mnsinc.com [206.55.3.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21671 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:44:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from lizard (a0073.chantilly.mns.net [206.239.104.105]) by relay1.mnsinc.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA22899 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:45:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:45:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990125194046.08875c1c@mail.mnsinc.com> X-Sender: jspencer@mail.mnsinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: JSpencer Subject: OFF: Echinacea and Other Herbs-Wisconsin Seminar Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 >Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:07:39 EST >Sender: Organic Gardening Discussion List >From: Barbara Birkinbine >Subject: Echinacea and Other Herbs-Wisconsin Seminar > >A growers seminar for Echinacea and other herbs will be held on February 12 at >UW-Madison School of Agriculture. The seminar will run from 8:30 am to 5:00 >pm with various specialists providing information on each topic. > >A background of various species will be presented along with information on >seed acquisition, germination techniques, growing, planting, and maintenance >of the crop. >If you are interested in attending this seminar contact >Robert Brule at 608/873-6222 or Therese Boberg at 608/224-5137 >Hope to see you there. >Barb Birkinbine >Oak Camp Herb Farm >OakCamp@aol.com > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 00:10:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA01928 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:10:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA25112; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:03:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17432 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:47:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from edtntnt1-port-337.agt.net ([161.184.193.83]:1026 "HELO blum") by edtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <549507-13597>; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:48:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01be48de$fbd78e20$53c1b8a1@blum> From: "The Blumhagen's" To: Subject: Ringworm in Cattle Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:37:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 Hello, I am a 16 year old farm boy from Alberta, Canada, and presently own a few breeding cows. My father found that my two year old cow just recently formed ringworm patches around her eyes. I noticed the letters being exchanged regarding ringworm in humans and wondered if perhaps anyone had any information on a treatment for ringworm on cows. My father and I were going to apply an antibacterial type cream to her soars but if there was an alternative I could try and experiment with I would try it first. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sincerly, Levi Blumhagen From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 08:56:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA06549 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:56:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA25218; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com [139.134.5.173]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA25153 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:03:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id aa287092 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:01:05 +1000 Received: from WBBH-T-003-p-166-181.tmns.net.au ([139.134.166.181]) by mail0.bigpond.com (Claudes-Off-Shore-MailRouter V2.2a); 26 Jan 1999 15:01:04 From: "Maritza de Oliveira and Angela Medeiros" To: Subject: Brazilian BD web site Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:25:14 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <05010514045641@domain0.bigpond.com> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Allan The Brazilian Instituto Biodinamico de Desenvolvimento Rural have a web site. www.laser.com.br/ibd/ I hope you can read Portugues! Or you can write to: Caixa Postal 321 - Bairro Demétria - CEP 18603-970 - Botucatu - SP - Brasil . Fone/Fax: ( 014) 821-1739 But if you have any problem, let me know. I'll be happy to help you with the translation. Best Wishes Angela From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 08:56:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA06564 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:56:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA25322; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:50:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from fh106.infi.net (fh106.infi.net [209.97.16.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24843 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:46:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from 208.129.61.28 (pm1-28.1v5.infi.net [208.129.61.28]) by fh106.infi.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA31072 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:47:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36ADBAC4.10E7@bouldernews.infi.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:53:28 -0600 From: Paul Frazier Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle References: <000a01be48de$fbd78e20$53c1b8a1@blum> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 The Blumhagen's wrote: > > Hello, > > I am a 16 year old farm boy from Alberta, Canada, and presently own a few > breeding cows. My father found that my two year old cow just recently formed > ringworm patches around her eyes. I noticed the letters being exchanged > regarding ringworm in humans and wondered if perhaps anyone had any > information on a treatment for ringworm on cows. My father and I were going > to apply an antibacterial type cream to her soars but if there was an > alternative I could try and experiment with I would try it first. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Sincerly, > Levi Blumhagen Dear Levi, In humans, ringworm makes patches of red rings with a clear center that is dry and scaly. These patches rarely turn into sores unless they have been there for a very long time and the person has scratched them. Are you sure that this is what your cow has? I don't know as much about cows as humans but it's just a thought. Also, ringworm is a fungal organism and probably won't respond to an antibacterial cream unless it also contains antifungal medication as well. I would try TEA TREE oil on the sores a little at a time so you can see if she is allergic to it. In some people Tea Tree oil is somewhat irritating and will make a skin condition worse before it can help. Hope this helps Pat Frazier From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 09:45:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07496 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:45:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01321; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00997 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:37:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.162] (pm3mbr2-66-162.intrepid.net [206.102.66.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14735 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:38:32 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:34:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 Levi, ringworm is a fungal infection, specific types of fungi called dermatophytes, which infect hair follicles &/or the hair shafts themselves. Antibacterial creams will have no effect against the fungus. Ringworm infection often signals an underlying stress or nutritional deficiency - we see this infection most commonly during the winter, when cattle are being fed stored feeds (hay, silage, etc.). Often, these feeds are low in Vitamin A - either it was present in low levels when the feed was put up, or it has degraded over time. I'd recommend giving your cow an injection of Vitamin A, and perhaps an injection of a Vitamin E/Selenium preparation, unless your mineral supplementation program addresses these two nutrients(VitE/Se). Check with your veterinarian regarding these treatments, and he may have an antifungal preparation which you can apply topically to the lesions. Back when I was in veterinary practice, we used to use thiabendazole (TBZ) paste as a topical antifungal agent - TBZ had lost its effectiveness as a dewormer, but still worked quite nicely as an antifungal agent. Good Luck Louis L. "Lucky" Pittman, Jr., DVM Veterinary Pathologist Murray State University Breathitt Veterinary Center Hopkinsville, KY Email: Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 09:45:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07507 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01399; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:40:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01017 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:37:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.162] (pm3mbr2-66-162.intrepid.net [206.102.66.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14754 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:38:35 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:35:08 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 Ringworm has been a problem on our ranch with our showstring of registered Santa Gertrudis cattle. I will be interested in seeing the traffic on this issue. We treat with MILD iodine/captan (garden plant antifungal)/novalsan spray or paste (arioound eyese yse paste) EVERY OTHER day for a week or 2. Seems to do the job but ringworm spreads like wildfire so new areas crop up. Keep your animal isolated during active cases or the whole herd will have ringworm. My vet suggests eliminating the iodine because it is easy to remove hair with even a mild iodine mixture. I still use the iodine in hopes I can clear up sooner. Beware, use mild (say 1/2 %) and every other day. HayWire Ranch Republic of Texas >Hello, > >I am a 16 year old farm boy from Alberta, Canada, and presently own a few >breeding cows. My father found that my two year old cow just recently formed >ringworm patches around her eyes. I noticed the letters being exchanged >regarding ringworm in humans and wondered if perhaps anyone had any >information on a treatment for ringworm on cows. My father and I were going >to apply an antibacterial type cream to her soars but if there was an >alternative I could try and experiment with I would try it first. > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Sincerly, >Levi Blumhagen > > > >=========================================================================== > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food >that promotes human development. > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > >listproc@envirolink.org > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > >subscribe bdnow > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 09:48:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07565 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:48:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01730; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:42:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01388 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.162] (pm3mbr2-66-162.intrepid.net [206.102.66.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15252 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:41:05 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:40:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Action Alert:Toxic Sludge Labeling Bill in Congress (please post) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 National Sludge Alliance, Box 130, Copake, NY 12516 Action Alert Send letters to Your Representatives to co-sponsor Food Labeling Bill and ask Senators to introduce a companion bill. Introduced in the House of Representatives on January 6, 1999 by Mr. Jose Serrano and referred to the Committee on Commerce, and the Committee on Agriculture. SAMPLE LETTER In Support of HR 262 food labeling bill that provides consumers the basic "right to know" Dear Representative/Senator -------------, I am writing to express my strong support for HR 262, introduced by Representative Jose Serrano, to amend the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act and the egg, meat, and poultry inspection laws to ensure that consumers receive notification regarding food crops, livestock, or poultry raised on land on which sewage sludge was applied. The federal ban on the ocean dumping of sludge without an investigation of alternatives and mandating enforceable safe methods and processes has put food, water, farmland, and consumers at risk. To meet the huge demand for cheap land-based sludge disposal, sludge generators and processors are aggressively promoting industrial contaminated sludge as an agricultural fertilizer. Sludge is a toxic soup of industrial and household chemicals. Materials discharged to sewage treatment plants consist of residential, industrial, hospital wastes, runoff from streets and farmlands, and in some cases landfill leachates including Superfund sites. These wastes contain varying degrees of pathogens, heavy metals, man-made organic chemicals such as PCBs, dioxins, pharmaceuticals, industrial solvents, detergents, asbestos, and radioactive wastes. The EPA is promoting growing food on these contaminants without telling the public. As a consumer the decision to expose my family to this risk should rest with me and not a state or federal bureaucracy. I urge your support and sponsorship of a companion bill in the Senate. This is a food labeling bill (HR 262) that will provide consumers with a basic "right to know". I look forward to your timely reply to this request. Sincerely, Debbie Dunbar Ortman National Field Organizer Organic Consumers Association 3547 Haines Rd. Duluth, MN 55811 (218) 726-1443 (218) 726-1446 Fax safefood@cp.duluth.mn.us http://www.purefood.org Join the Organic Consumers Association in your local area. If you want to become a member or a volunteer--or make a donation--call (218)726-1443 To subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, Food Bytes, send an email to: majordomo@mr.net with the simple message: subscribe pure-food-action =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 11:05:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10618 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:05:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14959; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:59:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14740 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:58:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.20.176]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990126155830.ETXG23625@default>; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:58:30 +0000 Message-ID: <36ADE84C.234B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:07:40 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net, sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Notice: Biodynamic Farming Conference in Eustis, Florida X-URL: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray&id=15621.224963454105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Dear Listfolk, A two-day annual Conference on the principles and practical usage of Biodynamic Farming methods will take place in Eustis, Florida on January 30-31, 1999, at the Farm of Bob Luzader. Several very experienced BD authors and longtime farmers will be there, with tons of practical farming information to share and discuss with attendees. Both days consist of several lectures, demonstrations and practical, experiential workshops taught by experienced farmers using BD methods. Attendees to this annual gathering include beekeepers, farmer/dowsers, small family farmers, organic and sustainable farmers, veterinarians, nurserymen and home gardeners. All attendees are encouraged to bring their questions, observations and ideas. All who have an interest in Biodynamics or who seek further information about this method of farming/stewardship in harmony with the energies of Nature are welcome to attend. Registration is $50. for the weekend, and $25 or something close to that for a single day (Call Bob to check the one-day reg, and let the phone ring awhile, he may be out in the field.) Contact Bob Luzader at (352) 589-4606 for further info and directions. Attendees can stay overnight on the grounds (verify this with Bob); Bring your tent. Hotel rooms available (~$38./night) in the nearby town of Eustis. I do highly recommend this excellent conference to anyone seeking further usable, practical information on Biodynamic or Sustainable farming methods. Regards, Linda PS: This message posted also on the US Organic Agriculture Message Board at: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray. and on the BDNOW and Sanet Mailing Lists. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 11:20:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10981 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:20:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17431; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:14:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd103.hotmail.com [207.82.252.167]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16809 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:10:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 2154 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 1999 16:11:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990126161108.2153.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.146.195.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:11:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.146.195.2] From: "lloyd kinder" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: glyphosate Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:11:07 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 Hi Margaret. Re epilepsy, IAHP, which has successfully worked with curing brain-injured kids of all kinds, even Downs kids, has a report called [I think] "A Bill of Particulars on Seizures and the Discontinuance of Anti-convulsant Drugs." I think their website is www.iahp.org. The report says anti-convulsant drugs cause convulsions to get worse in the long run. They ask parents to take their kids off of these drugs and to adopt a nutritious diet. They used to favor a vegetarian diet, but I don't know if that's still true. They certainly advise against junk foods. Best wishes for your daughter. Aloha. Lloyd >Hi there >I am a new member to bdnow and would like some up- to- date info on the >effects of glyphosate on people. >My 18yr old daughter became epileptic approx 12months ago and by accident >she found it is 'Round Up' (which has the active ingredient gyyphosate) >which causes her epilepsy. ... >Margaret ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jan 26 11:59:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12130 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:59:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22082 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:59:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22068 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07490 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:59:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.20.176]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990126155830.ETXG23625@default>; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:58:30 +0000 Message-ID: <36ADE84C.234B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:07:40 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net, sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Notice: Biodynamic Farming Conference in Eustis, Florida X-URL: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray&id=15621.224963454105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Dear Listfolk, A two-day annual Conference on the principles and practical usage of Biodynamic Farming methods will take place in Eustis, Florida on January 30-31, 1999, at the Farm of Bob Luzader. Several very experienced BD authors and longtime farmers will be there, with tons of practical farming information to share and discuss with attendees. Both days consist of several lectures, demonstrations and practical, experiential workshops taught by experienced farmers using BD methods. Attendees to this annual gathering include beekeepers, farmer/dowsers, small family farmers, organic and sustainable farmers, veterinarians, nurserymen and home gardeners. All attendees are encouraged to bring their questions, observations and ideas. All who have an interest in Biodynamics or who seek further information about this method of farming/stewardship in harmony with the energies of Nature are welcome to attend. Registration is $50. for the weekend, and $25 or something close to that for a single day (Call Bob to check the one-day reg, and let the phone ring awhile, he may be out in the field.) Contact Bob Luzader at (352) 589-4606 for further info and directions. Attendees can stay overnight on the grounds (verify this with Bob); Bring your tent. Hotel rooms available (~$38./night) in the nearby town of Eustis. I do highly recommend this excellent conference to anyone seeking further usable, practical information on Biodynamic or Sustainable farming methods. Regards, Linda PS: This message posted also on the US Organic Agriculture Message Board at: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray. and on the BDNOW and Sanet Mailing Lists. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 12:54:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13856 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:54:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA03062; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:48:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02689 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:46:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33422-675>; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:47:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:47:26 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 Hi All; In response to ringworm in cattle: On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > Levi, > Ringworm infection often signals an underlying stress or nutritional > deficiency - we see this infection most commonly during the winter, when > cattle are being fed stored feeds (hay, silage, etc.). Often, these feeds > are low in Vitamin A - either it was present in low levels when the feed > was put up, or it has degraded over time. Fungal infection can only occur if the skin environment has been damaged. The skin has a protective coating of lactic acid and this, together with normal sebum production, has a fungicidal action. But chronic infections sometimes are stubborn, ringworm is treatable so persistance is needed. As mentioned above, the diet should be reviewed and adjusted. In homeopathic terms, the 'terrain' needs to be improved, restoring the abnormal body metabolism and then the skin function will come back to normal. Nutritionally, a natural supplement with kelp meal, Vit A, E, Selenium (if in a low area). Digestive enzymes are helpful. Topically used for ringworm: Tea Tree Oil, Echinacea (acts indirectly on the fungal mycelium), Hypericum ointment reduces itching. Remembering the ringworm is an expression of an internal 'disorder' or imbalance...if the animal was 'in health' the body would have the natural immunity to heal itself. Homeopathic homeopathic remedies to improve the animal's resistance: - Bacillinum is the primary ringworm remedy - Sepia when circular patches are more on the body than the head, - Tellurium has a beneficial effect on the skin - Kali arsenicum for dry scurfy scab-like lesions, will prevent the formation of leathery skin - Chrysarobinum is for scaly, crusty eruptions around ears and eyes. In the natural health field, experience has shown that chemical drugs only prolong the disease, as they have the tendency to suppress the symptoms and have internal side effects. With persistance, some wholistic reading and reviewing your cattle's overall nutritional program for the winter, the ringworm should be managable. Joan Macdonald DIHom R Hom Halifax, Nova Scotia Email: av204@chebucto.ns.ca > ======================================================================== > > BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, > dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food > that promotes human development. > > To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > > listproc@envirolink.org > > In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > > subscribe bdnow > > If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > > a message to listproc@envirolink.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 13:05:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14252 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:05:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05026; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:00:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04593 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:57:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id MAA27729 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:58:43 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:57:00 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF1F@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Ringworm in Cattle Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:56:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 i realize this is premature and uninformed and all that but here's a thought... anyone familiar with the yeast connection? ringworm is one of the manifestations of an overgrowth of yeast in humans...could our bovine friends have this trouble too?? and if so, are we getting it from their meat or are we all just getting it together? i find that an interesting thought -- i'm not expecting any answers. unless BD is the answer. :-) > ---------- > From: Intergalactic Garage > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 9:35 AM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle > > > > Ringworm has been a problem on our ranch with our showstring of registered > Santa Gertrudis cattle. I will be interested in seeing the traffic on > this > issue. > > We treat with MILD iodine/captan (garden plant antifungal)/novalsan spray > or paste (arioound eyese yse paste) EVERY OTHER day for a week or 2. > Seems > to do the job but ringworm spreads like wildfire so new areas crop up. > Keep your animal isolated during active cases or the whole herd will have > ringworm. > > My vet suggests eliminating the iodine because it is easy to remove hair > with even a mild iodine mixture. I still use the iodine in hopes I can > clear up sooner. Beware, use mild (say 1/2 %) and every other day. > > HayWire Ranch > Republic of Texas > > > > > > >Hello, > > > >I am a 16 year old farm boy from Alberta, Canada, and presently own a few > >breeding cows. My father found that my two year old cow just recently > formed > >ringworm patches around her eyes. I noticed the letters being exchanged > >regarding ringworm in humans and wondered if perhaps anyone had any > >information on a treatment for ringworm on cows. My father and I were > going > >to apply an antibacterial type cream to her soars but if there was an > >alternative I could try and experiment with I would try it first. > > > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > >Sincerly, > >Levi Blumhagen > > > > > > > >========================================================================= > == > > > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, > >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, > food > >that promotes human development. > > > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > > > >listproc@envirolink.org > > > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > > > >subscribe bdnow > > > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > > > > of > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 14:41:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18197 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:41:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23291; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22691 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:32:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.150]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990126193408.GUJR678125.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:34:08 +1300 Message-ID: <36AE18CE.2DEA@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:34:39 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: JT: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 Jim Thank you very much for your response to my article. I enjoy your feedback, however I see little point in replying directly to it. I will however address aspects of your replies when dealing with other replies. We (you and I) are such an example of what Lievegeod outlines as the difficulty of the Rosicrucian and the Anthroposophist that it is a waste of my time and energies to enter 'the endless argument' in this way. It is wonderful you bring up your rebuttals and I look forward to many more in the future. May my postings long act as stimulation for the expression of your 'correct' view of the matter. I am sure all concerned can benefit from their consideration of your thoughts and my experience. Glen Atkinson. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 15:37:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21240 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:37:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03757; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:31:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03270 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:29:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.150.57] (pm3mbr3-67-153.intrepid.net [206.102.67.153]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17206 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:30:37 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:30:51 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 > My father found that my two year old cow just recently formed > ringworm patches around her eyes. Levi, A helpful post from your country that I saved indicated that Crest toothpaste(Floristan) applied with a brush to affected areas will soon grow hair again. It helps to remove all the loose stuff you can with a brush first. We tried it a week ago, and sure enough, the hair is growing back already. Good luck! Your name would fit in well with the neighboring amish. Several Levi's around here. Dennis Lindell Grass Dairyfarmer Harmony,MN USA dairydel@means.net To join the Graze-R list, kindly go to: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/graze-r or http://www.onelist.com and search "grazing". For juno users w/o internet access, send a request to me. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 15:52:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21844 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:52:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06464; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06311 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:45:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.26]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:53:47 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:46:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Interns Wanted Message-ID: <05BC1D30C629E77785256704007F9A10.001349B185256705@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Sarah Milstein on 01/25/99 05:08:46 PM To: csa-l@prairienet.org cc: Subject: Interns Wanted I would appreciate it if somebody on the CSA list could post this message to SANET, and to any other lists where it would appropriate (and wouldn't constitute spamming). Thanks! --Sarah INTERNS WANTED - Roxbury Farm Roxbury Farm offers opportunities to be involved in all aspects of production on a well established, financially successful, mechanized farm, and to work with and learn from a farmer with twenty years of growing experience and a commitment to teaching. Roxbury Farm is a 190-acre biodynamic farm near Hudson, NY with 25 acres in vegetable production for a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) membership of 675 shareholders located in Manhattan, Albany, and Columbia County, NY. Livestock provides for a portion of the farm's fertility needs and supplies meat to our members. The farm has been operated from its inception in 1990 by Jean-Paul Courtens, who is joined in 1999 by Sarah Shapiro. Interns interact with the local farm community through our participation in the Collaborative Regional Alliance for Farmer Training (CRAFT) program, a six month program in which interns visit twelve organic and biodynamic farms in the region. Roxbury Farm provides on-farm housing with a full kitchen and washing machine, all farm food crops, a food purchasing budget, a $300/month stipend, and Workers Compensation, for three interns during the growing season. People with a strong interest and work ethic shoulc contact Jean-Paul Courtens or Sarah Shapiro at: 518-851-2056, 518-851-3809, or write to us at roxbury@mhonline.net or 81 Roxbury Road, Hudson, NY 12534 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 16:34:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA24153 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:34:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13407; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:28:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f98.hotmail.com [207.82.250.217]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12897 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:25:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 12644 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 1999 21:25:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990126212543.12643.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:25:42 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:25:42 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 Glen, Somehow, I've lost the initial study title, "Hydrogen the carrier of the ego", but anyhow of what benefit can this be to the study? I will agree that hydrogen is a carrier, but what form of hydrogen are we discussing? I believe that in the lectures that Steiner said water is the carrier of all nutruents, and water itself is a composite of hydrogen and oxygen. However not all water is the same. Water comming from a spring is much more dense with abundant minerals more so than that of comming from a water plant that is chemically treated to remove life forms. I do not think you are interested in drinking water from the ocean either. I feel that if we are going to study hydrogen then it is necessary to look at it in a complexed form. In rethinking RSs' statement that "water is the carrier of all nutrients", it appears that it would be more to the point to say, "water carries nutrients". Why? Because of the context of the "carrier". It can carry nutrients off soil by leaching. The modern chemist loves the previous statement due to the fact that it gives credence to the water solubility approach to plant feeding. The misconception is that water flushes the water solubile fert. into the plant root, when we know that the plant root searches through soil zones for the nutrient it needs and then trades a little acid to the clay for its' supper. Now going back to the "carrier". Just because water or hydrogen is a carrier does not give a shaping funtion to its' existence. It has the ability to be molded to a variety of forms. Many of the other elements become attatched to it through hydrogens movements. I feel that carrier too could also be termed as "vehicle". Vehicles are modes of transmission and sometimes carry other objects in their bodies. So if it is an apparatus for transmission, then it can take on other properties when condensing into matter. RS also said that in primeval days that air was much more dense then than it is currently and water much less denser. So with the age of the planet we are seeing a solidification of hydrogen into different forms of matter. Hydrogen taken in this sense more appeals to me again because we are looking then at its composite forms. This also too has more practical associations. What am I doing when I stirr up a batch of preps? I am stirring a batch of H2O in with preps of certain chemical properties. In the main, I also may be mixing oxygen from air into the batch, creating new things from bonding of prep, oxygen and H2O. I wonder has anyone ever weighed the entire prep including the vessel before stirring and then after? I wonder is it a loss or gain. Cheers,, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 17:15:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA25637 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:15:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA19274; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:09:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18840 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:05:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.80]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA2767 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:57:24 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990126133825.03bd7670@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:38:25 -0700 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Re: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego In-Reply-To: <19990126212543.12643.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 Dear Friends, At 01:25 PM 1/26/99 PST, you wrote: >So if it is an apparatus for transmission, then it can take on other >properties when condensing into matter. RS also said that in primeval >days that air was much more dense then than it is currently and water >much less denser. So with the age of the planet we are seeing a >solidification of hydrogen into different forms of matter. Hydrogen >taken in this sense more appeals to me again because we are looking then >at its composite forms. This also too has more practical associations. > >What am I doing when I stirr up a batch of preps? I am stirring a batch >of H2O in with preps of certain chemical properties. In the main, I >also may be mixing oxygen from air into the batch, creating new things >from bonding of prep, oxygen and H2O. Apparently a new form of hydrogen has been discovered and measured. This form of hydrogen is called the "hydrino" and it can be compounded with other elements. The hydrino is denser than hydrogen but less dense than helium. More information on the properties and uses of the hydrino can be found at: http://www.blacklightpower.com/index.html -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 Stupidity got us into this mess -- why can't it get us out? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 17:20:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA25760 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:20:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA20059; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:14:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19735 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:12:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay0191244.acay.com.au [203.19.124.4]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA11763 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:28:49 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:13:09 +1100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: thank you Lloyd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 Hi there Lloyd, We live in Aust. and I don't know what IAHP is. Thank you for your advice on anti-convulsants. We found a good homeopath and got Helen off the med. from the neurologist. Helen only has problems when she is near RoundUp. We have had feed back from other people advising that it may be the surfactant rather than the glyphsate. We will probably never know. This has led us down the track of BD which is a wonderful new way for us. We are in the process of trying to become chemical free on our farm. My daughter doesn't need any med now that she knows what the cause is. She is starting university this year, doing a degree in Environmental Science. She eats avery good diet and is very mindful of the need for good nutrition which has no doubt helped her. Thank you again. Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 19:10:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA00856 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:10:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA06690; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd101.hotmail.com [207.82.252.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA06466 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:02:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11692 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jan 1999 00:03:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990127000313.11691.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.146.195.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:03:12 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.146.195.2] From: "lloyd kinder" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: thank you Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:03:12 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 Hi Margaret. I lived in Austin a few months in '87 and early '88. I was friends with some of the Quakers there, called Friends. My bro and I are just getting into biodynamics ourselves. Glad to hear of Helen's progress. It took me a long time to get off of junk food, maybe 9 years. I finally had to join overeaters anonymous. Aloha. Lloyd >Hi there Lloyd, >We live in Aust. and I don't know what IAHP is. Thank you for your advice on >anti-convulsants. We found a good homeopath and got Helen off the med. from >the neurologist. Helen only has problems when she is near RoundUp. We have >had feed back from other people advising that it may be the surfactant >rather than the glyphsate. We will probably never know. This has led us >down the track of BD which is a wonderful new way for us. We are in the >process of trying to become chemical free on our farm. My daughter doesn't >need any med now that she knows what the cause is. She is starting >university this year, doing a degree in Environmental Science. She eats >avery good diet and is very mindful of the need for good nutrition which >has no doubt helped her. >Thank you again. >Margaret > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 23:23:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05569 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA05161; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:16:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04923 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:14:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.129]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990127041446.IHOX682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:14:46 +1300 Message-ID: <36AE9310.6A29@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:16:16 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study:Hydrogen and the Ego Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 > Somehow, I've lost the initial study title, "Hydrogen the carrier of the > ego", but anyhow of what benefit can this be to the study? The benefit of this to our study is that there is this very simple and neat association of the spiritual activiites to the elements of protein. As much as we may wish to discuss the ways in which the spiritual activities work into the various kingdoms of nature, ( which each havce their own querks) I feel sure we can see a basic relationship between the spirits relationship to Hydrogen, Nitrogen to the Astral body, the etheric to Oxygen and the physical to carbon, as stated by RS. Which brings us to his statement that the chemical constitution of any environment indicates the spiritual activity of that environment. Hence a whole new way of looking at chemistry and lifeforms. I will > agree that hydrogen is a carrier, but what form of hydrogen are we > discussing? I would suggest Hydrogen in its pure form (H). Start mixing it with other elements and you start carrying some of that activity as well. eg water H20. We have both the spirits activity mixed with an etheric activity which is very similiar in 'context' to the eastern definition of CHI, where the eternal spirit and life force are seen as one creative force behind lifeforms. Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 00:46:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA06770 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:46:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA13211; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:40:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12879 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:37:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from XTRA.CO.NZ ([210.55.167.29]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with ESMTP id <19990127053841.LVKE678125.mta2-rme@XTRA.CO.NZ> for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:38:41 +1300 Message-ID: <36AEA5EB.EF26C299@XTRA.CO.NZ> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:36:43 +1300 From: Jim Thomson Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: JT: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego References: <36AE18CE.2DEA@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage wrote: > Jim > > Thank you very much for your response to my article. I enjoy your > feedback, however I see little point in replying directly to it. I will > however address aspects of your replies when dealing with other replies. > > We (you and I) are such an example of what Lievegeod outlines as the > difficulty of the Rosicrucian and the Anthroposophist that it is a waste > of my time and energies to enter 'the endless argument' in this way. > > It is wonderful you bring up your rebuttals and I look forward to many > more in the future. May my postings long act as stimulation for the > expression of your 'correct' view of the matter. I am sure all concerned > can benefit from their consideration of your thoughts and my experience. > > Glen Atkinson. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Correction: All concerned (with the on-line study) will benefit from the objective presentation of the facts according to Steiner's Spiritual Science as opposed to your subjective "imaginative experiences". JT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 04:55:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA08778 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:55:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA27899; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:49:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA27819 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:47:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay019124102.acay.com.au [203.19.124.102]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA07534 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:03:37 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:49:16 +1100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: Aust. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Hi Lloyd, Sorry if I confused you, Aust. is short for Australia. That's why I don't know what IAHP is. Thanks again for the info you gave me I'm glad to hear of so many people doing things the natural way. Regards Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 08:07:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA10463 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA05770; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:01:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA05586 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:58:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA23775 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:02:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:02:28 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF / GEN1-27 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:41:27 -0500 From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Subject: GEN1-27 Here are some activist articles ......... SUPERMARKET LOYALTY CARDS TO TRACK GM FOOD THREAT Public to be guinea pigs in GM food experiment The Government is planning to use supermarket loyalty cards to help investigate the possible health impacts of eating genetically modified (GM) food. Official minutes show that discussions have already taken place with Sainsbury's, Tesco and Safeway who have "agreed in principle". The move will undermine confidence in the claim that there are no health concerns associated with GM food. The plans are outlined in the latest minutes (10 December) of the Government's official Advisory Committee on Novel Foods and Processes (ACNFP). Information on GM foods would be made available "in a form that can be analysed on a product by product basis at postcode level." Using health databases the information would be used to find out whether eating GM foods is linked to illness. The study would specifically look for increases in childhood allergies, cancer, birth defects and hospital admissions. There are around 30 million loyalty card-carrying customers in the UK. Customers are told that information gathered with the cards will not be passed on to third parties. Pete Riley, Food Campaigner at Friends of the Earth said: "If the Government is so concerned over the health impacts of genetically modified foods they shouldn't be introducing them. Supermarket customers will be outraged to discover that they are to be part of a massive public health experiment on GM foods. Despite the fact that their customers have made it clear that they don't want supermarkets to sell GM foods, it is clear that they are not only being ignored; but their loyalty is being abused as well. Supermarkets must decide whose interests they are protecting: their customers or the big biotech firms?" Despite public concern over GM foods the Government has been planning a pro-GM propaganda campaign with leading supermarkets. Last week Friends of the Earth revealed that the Government had discussed the possibility of running a pro-GM food video campaign at supermarket checkouts. Friends of the Earth has also attacked the Government for allowing Science Minister Lord Sainsbury to be involved with decisions over GM food. Lord Sainsbury has various links with the GM food industry. In October a NOP survey for Friends of the Earth revealed that 58 per cent of supermarket customers did not want their supermarkets to sell GM food. .......... "Hambling, Joyce" (by way of genetics ) Subject: GE - LEADING FOOD WRITERS DEMAND ANSWERS FROM BLAIR ON GENE FOOD For immediate release: 26th January 1999 LEADING FOOD WRITERS DEMAND ANSWERS FROM BLAIR ON GENE FOOD Over 120 of Britain and Ireland's leading food writers today challenged Tony Blair to put consumer's health and the environment before the interests of the agrochemical industry' and ban genetically engineered (GE) food. Speaking at the launch of the Greenpeace food writers campaign against genetic engineering, food writer Lynda Brown told a packed Savoy Hotel that it was time to challenge Tony Blair, "We shall be writing to Tony Blair to inform him of the strength of feeling amongst food writers against gene foods and asking him for once, to put the interests of the consumers ahead of the agrochemical companies. Up to now Tony Blair has only listened to the Monsantos of this world. He cannot ignore the huge public concern over gene foods any more - or the potential recipe for disaster they pose. We are at a turning point. Which way will this people's politician jump?". Also attending the launch was MP Alan Simpson who urged Greenpeace and the food writers to bring their campaign to Parliament, which he described as out of touch with public concern on the issue. He said, "I have heard more relevant discussion here today than I've ever heard in Parliament on the issue of genetic engineering". The Greenpeace campaign has gained the support of over 120 leading food writers who have pledged to oppose the use of GE food in their recipes, books and columns and to encourage restaurants to avoid the use of GE products. The campaign will expand to include chefs, growers, gardeners, consumers, anyone with an interest in food and the environment. Greenpeace Campaign Director John Sauven said of today's challenge "We shall wait to hear from Tony Blair with interest. He can't sit on the fence about this one any longer, food affects everyone and he has to take sides; does he care about consumers and the environment or about the agrochemical industry." The launch was held at the Savoy Hotel in London this morning (26th January). ends For further information please contact the Greenpeace Press Office on 0171-865 8255/6/7/8 ....... posted by Hugh Warwick (by way of genetics ) GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS: UNNECESSARY, UNWANTED, UNSAFE Today, Wednesday 27th January at 4pm, Environment Minister Michael Meacher will see the launch of an influential report on the use of genetic engineering in British agriculture at the House of Commons. The report is the result of the first 'Citizens' Jury' on the subject of food. Twelve randomly selected members of the British public were brought together. And over ten weekly meetings, they interrogated expert witnesses from academia, government and the food industry on the way our food is grown, processed, regulated and presented to consumers. In their final verdict, the citizens' jury has concluded the following: o Agriculture should be transformed away from intensive methods towards low or zero use of artificial chemicals such as pesticides and chemical fertilisers o Genetically modified foods are unnecessary and may have irreversible consequences o Labelling of all foods as "GM" or "GM-free" should begin, together with a public education campaign. o There should be far less price difference between organic and non-organic produce than at present o Consumer groups should be represented on food regulatory authorities o Control over the way our food is distributed and sold is currently in the hands of too few supermarket companies. Members of the jury will be present to defend their conclusions, as will the project's stakeholders, including representatives from Sainsbury's, the National Farmer's Union and the Consumers' Association. Graham Harvey, author of the influential book 'Killing of the Countryside', and agricultural story editor to the 'Archers', will present his conclusions based on 20 years work as an agricultural journalist. Copies of the citizens' report will be available at the press conference. For further information and copies of the report, please call: 0171 837 9229 Co-ordinator of the project, Dr Tom Wakeford, is a member of Science Minister Lord Sainsbury's Biosciences Advisory Group and lectures at the University of East London. _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months See website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 08:30:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA10759 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:30:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA07261; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:24:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07079 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:22:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.175] (pm3mbr2-66-175.intrepid.net [206.102.66.175]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA31887 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:22:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:23:42 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ringworm treatment Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 At a recent health program for cattle, a similar question about ringworm came up. The vet giving the presentation recommended a rather simple, old treatment as follows. Brush off the scaly top of the ringworm and then brush on a coat of used motor oil. The reason this works is that ringworm is a fungus and the small amount of sulfur residue in the oil is adequate to treat against the ringworm fungus. It's a simple and low cost way to administer the sulfur. CS Goodhue, MN From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 09:05:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA11239 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:05:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11003; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:59:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f110.hotmail.com [207.82.250.229]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA10663 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18697 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jan 1999 13:57:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19990127135719.18696.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:57:18 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: JT: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:57:18 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 Dear Jim, You write: I will agree that the objective is important to be able to start visualizing the Ag. lectures. This info is difficult to transend. The most difficult part of it being the context of the language. Example: I am 43 years old and live in the Southeastern U.S. Until comming in contact with the works of RS, I had practically never heard the use of the word "Etheric", with the exception of jokes and puns. As I continue exploration of the science that developed in Europe prior to WWI & WWII I am finding that it may be a central point in those conversations. You may be so far advanced in Steiners' viewpoints that the concepts he presents are second nature to you. However I am not. I am a neophyte, a child in this form of thinking. The use of the subjective encourages me to explore some of the thoughts I am having about these things. When I do this it seems that people on the list encourage me. This makes my inner spirit glow and I hope I can get a few others to glimmer as well. While I do want to make Steiners concepts work for me in practical application, I do not want to become so terse and mechanical that boredum and humdrum enter in and thinking becomes stagnent and putrid. When this happens then whats the use. No motivation, no thinking, ie. no living substance. On this list we are encouraged to voice our experiances, just as children are encouraged to speak their thoughts to their parents while learning and growing. When this occurs the parent may draw out of the child attributes that will one day encourage the child in an attitude that will allow he/she to discover remedies to cure the worlds ills. Think about the subjective from a childs viewpoint. I do not know everything. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 09:19:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA11753 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA13078; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:13:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12854 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:12:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-87.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.87]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA32469 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:13:15 +1100 Message-ID: <016f01be49ff$25c04bc0$49431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Fw: grasshoppers. Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:11:46 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_016A_01BE4A5B.2CD52C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01BE4A5B.2CD52C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Cheryl Kemp To: BDNow list Date: Thursday, 28 January 1999 12:54 am Subject: grasshoppers. I received this question from a lady on my conventional farmers list and = was wondering if anyone has some tried and true suggestions or what = worked for you, Weather this year has been very wet and cloudy. Many thanks, Cheryl Kemp. Do you have any good ideas for controlling grasshoppers? Hundreds = devastated our 20 or so sweetcorn plants, including the cobs then they = turned on the beans, carrots and other plants. I have broccoli plants = in pots in the nursery that should have been in the garden weeks back = but I cant see any point in it. =20 Any advice will be very much appreciated as we just avoid chemicals = completely but our veges suffer. We are trying to work on the theory = that we have to share - but this year the grasshoppers left us almost no = corn. =20 Regards =20 Lynette > > ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01BE4A5B.2CD52C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Cheryl Kemp <bio@midcoast.com.au
>
To:= =20 BDNow list <bdnow@envirolink>
Date: Thursday, 28 = January=20 1999 12:54 am
Subject: grasshoppers.

I received this question from a lady = on my=20 conventional farmers list and was wondering if anyone has some tried and = true=20 suggestions or what worked for you,  Weather this year has been = very wet=20 and cloudy.
Many = thanks,
Cheryl Kemp.
Do you have any good = ideas for=20 controlling grasshoppers?   Hundreds devastated our 20 or so = sweetcorn=20 plants, including the cobs then they turned on the beans, carrots and = other=20 plants.  I have broccoli plants in pots in the nursery that should = have=20 been in the garden weeks back but I cant see any point in = it.
 
Any advice will be very = much=20 appreciated as we just avoid chemicals completely but our veges=20 suffer.   We are trying to work on the theory that we have to = share -=20 but this year the grasshoppers left us almost no corn.
 
Regards
 
Lynette
>
>
------=_NextPart_000_016A_01BE4A5B.2CD52C80-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 09:57:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA12429 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:57:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18923; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:52:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cartman.webbernet.net (root@cartman.webbernet.net [208.218.89.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18283 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:48:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from dhol.com (ip14-ascend3.dyn.webbernet.net [159.138.24.14]) by cartman.webbernet.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09202 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:49:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36AF2792.D13FD455@dhol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:49:54 -0500 From: "Dr. Kim Shunkwiler" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "BDNOW!" Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 Unsubscribe bdnow From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 11:16:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14266 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:16:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04465; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:09:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03736 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:07:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.33]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990127160839.OIUX678125.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:08:39 +1300 Message-ID: <36AF3A25.6DD1@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:09:09 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: JT: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 JT wrote > Correction: > > All concerned (with the on-line study) will benefit from the objective > presentation of the facts according to Steiner's Spiritual Science as > opposed to your subjective "imaginative experiences". > > JT For anyone not interested in my living experiences and imaginative cognition based upon RS work, they have a delete button. At some point Jim, I trust you will come to see your "objective presentation of the facts according to Steiner's Spiritual Science" is but one more subjective impression. Your assertions of their factualness is all very well however as I see it, they are often wide of 'the truth'. Take for example this statement > The ego is carried by warmth but works through carbon, the polarity to carbon being > nitrogen (The body of the Elohim ) For Humans, the ego works three ways into the > body, none of them to do with the liver. Please make this last statement to an Anthropop doctor and see what their answer is to you. Even my direct quotation > A week earlier on page 30 of "Spiritual Relationships in the Human > Organism." We find "Thus our ego organism also takes part through the > liver - which in essence has hydrogen as its physical representative - > in the whole construction of the human organism" from RS seems unable to impact upon your subjective mind set I am 100% wrong and you 100% right. And so be it. There are many more such examples one could draw attention too through out all your postings. The value of doing so however, is not apparant to me at present. So enjoy your journey. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 11:42:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14803 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:42:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA09331; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:36:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08932 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:34:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.4.55]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:35:45 +0000 Message-ID: <36AF3FAA.1DAA@cwcom.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:32:42 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF / GEN1-27 (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 Michael - BBC radio interviews with Tesco and Sainsbury officials seem to indicate that they will not permit the use of loyalty cards in the way apparently reported by the Ministry. The Tesco man was very firm that the undertaking his company made when introducing their Clubcard - that details would never be passed on to another organisation - still holds. As the user of a Sainsbury Reward card, together with the Tesco card (for DIY materials), I'm relieved; if it turns out that these reassurances are false, I'll complain vigorously and so, I hope, will many others ! Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 18:57:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24486 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:57:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA19658; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:50:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18895 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:45:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <35566-26426>; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:46:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:46:02 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: ringworm treatment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 Hi All; I had to reply to this post.... > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > At a recent health program for cattle, a similar question about ringworm > came up. The vet giving the presentation recommended a rather simple, old > treatment as follows. Brush off the scaly top of the ringworm and then > brush on a coat of used motor oil. The reason this works is that ringworm > is a fungus and the small amount of sulfur residue in the oil is adequate to > treat against the ringworm fungus. It's a simple and low cost way to > administer the sulfur. ------------------ It makes you ask, what contaminants are in used motor oil and why nowdays must it be properly recycled and not just tossed away..I think I would rather use clean oil.... Motor oil is a petroleum product and can have adverse suppressive long term effects. (Actually I just wrote a paper on Petroleum-crude and as a homeopathic remedy.) As the skin breathes and is porous, the petroleum reaches through to vital internal levels. Workers in the petroleum industry have some of these affects: - diseases of the skin and subcutaneous tissue ( like cures like..but prolonged exposure also creates) The skin affections may be better while the oil is applied...Vasoline(a petroleum product) used to be mixed with olive oil and applied to burns. - depressed nutrition, anemia, impaired digestive function - nerve trouble - respiratory affections So when you think of it, nothing in the application of motor oil addresses the underlying cause of the susceptibility to ringworm and its use will create more imbalances in the immune system for the future. I guess it is just like our gardens, you can dress the top with good looking compost....but it is what's happening underneath that coat,that matters. --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia Email: av204@chebucto.ns.ca From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 22:40:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA27546 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:40:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17783; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:33:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17406 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:31:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.137] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00446 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:32:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:56:22 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: BD Newsletters & Journals, updated list Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 BD-Now Readers: Here's an updated list (1-25-99) of Biodynamic Newsletters and Journals that includes Star and Furrow (England), Harvests (New Zealand), and The News Leaf (Austrialia) in addition to U.S. publications (Biodynamics, Applied Biodynamics, Voice of Demeter). Thanks to input from Cheryl Kemp, Tony Nelson-Smith, and Jim Thompson for address updates and publication notes. Steve Diver steved@attra.org =========================================== Biodynamics, started by Dr. Ehrenfried Pfeiffer in 1941, is the leading journal on biodynamics published in the United States. Contents includes scientific articles as well as practical reports on: composts, soils, biodynamic preparations, equipment, research trials, laboratory methods, biodynamic theory, and farm profiles. Subscriptions are $35 per year for six issues, available through the Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association. Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association, Inc Building 1002B, Thoreau Center, The Presidio P.O. Box 29135 San Francisco, CA 94129-0135 415-561-7797 415-561-7796 Fax biodynamic@aol.com http://www.biodynamics.com Applied Biodynamics is the newsletter of the Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Bio-Dynamics, which makes and distributes biodynamic preparations. The journal features articles on use of the preparations, compost making procedures, and other biodynamic methods from the practical perspective. Subscriptions are $30 per year for three issues, available through JPI. Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics Rt. 1 Box 620 Woolwine, VA 24185 540-930-2463 http://igg.com/bdnow/jpi/ The Voice of Demeter is the newsletter of the Demeter Association, which is the official certification organization for biodynamically grown foods. It is published twice yearly as an insert to Biodynamics; separate copies are available by request from Demeter Association. Demeter Association, Inc. Britt Rd. Aurora, NY 13026 315-364-5617 315-364-5224 Fax Contact: Anne Mendenhall demeter@baldcom.net Star and Furrow is the journal published by the Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association (BDAA) in England. Established in 1953, the Star and Furrow follows earlier publications of the BDAA dating back to the 1930s. Issued twice ('Summer' and 'Winter') per year, overseas (airmail) subscriptions are stlg5 British pounds. Contact: Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association Rudolf Steiner House 35 Park Road London NW1 6XT England Harvests is the current publication of the New Zealand Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association (NZ-BDFGA), published four times per year. The NZ-BDFGA has published a newsletter or journal since 1947. Subscriptions are NZ$55 per year. Contact: NZ Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association P.O. Box 39045 Wellington mail Centre New Zealand Tel: 04 589 5366 Fax: 04 589 5365 biodynamics@clear.net.nz The News Leaf is the quarterly journal of the Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association Of Australia Inc. (BDFGAA), in print since 1989. Subscriptions are $US25. Contact: BDFGAA P.O.Box 54 Bellingen 2454 NSW Australia Phone:/ Fax +2 66558551 or +2 66575306 poss@midcoast.com.au ============================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 22:40:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA27557 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:40:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17698; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:33:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17394 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:31:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.137] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00427 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:32:51 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:55:56 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: RAFI News: More Seed Sterilization Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 Rural Advancement Foundation International - RAFI Press Release - 27 January 1999 http://www.rafi.org ------------------------------------------ Genetic Seed Sterilization is "Holy Grail" for Ag Biotechnology Firms ------------------------------------------ New Patents for "Suicide Seeds" Threaten Farmers and Food Security Warns RAFI The Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI), a Canadian-based rural advocacy organization, announced today that it has uncovered over three dozen new patents describing a wide range of techniques that can be used for the genetic sterilization of plants and seeds. "The patents reveal that engineered seed sterility is not an isolated research agenda - it's the Holy Grail of the ag biotech industry," says Pat Mooney of RAFI. The disclosure follows on the heels of a controversial patent unveiled last year, christened the "Terminator" by RAFI, that continues to generate worldwide protest and debate because it renders farm-saved seed sterile - forcing farmers to return to the commercial seed market every year. The Terminator patent is jointly owned by the US Department of Agriculture and a Monsanto subsidiary, Delta & Pine Land Co. "The notorious Terminator patent is just the tip of the iceberg," explains RAFI's Mooney, "Every major seed and agrochemical enterprise is developing its own version of suicide seeds," he adds. "We've uncovered dozens of patents that disclose new and more insidious techniques for genetic sterilization of plants and seeds - and even animals," says Edward Hammond of RAFI. "Novartis, AstraZeneca, and Monsanto are among the Gene Giants who have sterile seeds in the pipeline, while others like Pioneer Hi-Bred, Rhone Poulenc, and DuPont have technologies that could easily be turned into Terminators." The primary goal of several of the the newly patented techniques is to sterilize seed so that farmers cannot save and re-plant seed. A number of the patents use benign-sounding technical terms such as "controlled gene expression" linked to "inducible promoters" to describe their sterilization techniques. Other patents describe "killer genes" that destroy pollen, or "GRIM proteins" that do the same to invertebrates or even mammalian cells. A patent owned by Astra/Zeneca candidly admits that their sterilization processes "are not desirable per se." Sterile Seeds: Why Worry? "These technologies are extremely dangerous," explains RAFI's Mooney, "because over 1.4 billion farmers - primarily poor farmers in Africa, Asia and Latin America - depend on farm-saved seed as their primary seed source. If they can't save seed, they can't continue to adapt crops to their unique farming environments, and that spells disaster for global food security." "Genetic seed sterility is not about improving the productivity or quality of crops, it's a quest to increase seed industry profits," adds Mooney, "First and foremost, these technologies are intended to force farmers to buy seed every season and to take still more crop production control away from farmers." A Platform for Inducing Chemical Sales: The new generation of patents goes beyond the genetic neutering of crops. The patents reveal that companies are developing suicide seeds whose genetic traits can be turned on and off by an external chemical "inducer" -- mixed with the company's patented agrochemicals. In the not-so-distant future, we may see farmers planting seeds that will develop into productive (but sterile) crops only if sprayed with a carefully prescribed regimen that includes the company's proprietary pesticide, fertilizer or herbicide. The latest version of Monsanto's suicide seeds won't even germinate unless exposed to a special chemical, while AstraZeneca's technologies outline how to engineer crops to become stunted or otherwise impaired if not regularly exposed to the company's chemicals. RAFI calls it "Traitor Technology." Sound far-fetched? Not according to Novartis (a Swiss life industry giant), whose patent (US 5,789,214) describes a process for chemically regulating a number of developmental processes in plants -- such as germination, sprouting, flowering, fruit ripening, etc. The patent specifically mentions that the chemical regulator can be applied to plants in combination with a fertilizer or herbicide. "If the companies can genetically program suicide seeds to perform only with the application of proprietary pesticide or fertilizer, it means they will increase sales of their patented agrochemicals and other proprietary inputs," explains Edward Hammond of RAFI. "Chemically-dependent suicide seeds are a dazzling technological achievement and a brilliant marketing strategy, but it's grim news for farmers and the environment," concludes Hammond. >From Biosafety to BioSerfdom: "We'll be hearing plenty of industry arguments in favor of engineered seed sterility and Traitor Technologies, but the ultimate goal," says Pat Mooney of RAFI, "is not breeding benefits or biosafety, but bioserfdom." "If Traitor technologies are developed for commercial sale," predicts RAFI's Mooney, "farmers will be forced to surrender control of their seed supply and the Gene Giants will ultimately dictate what the farmer grows, how to grow it, and where to sell it. Seed sterility is not about insuring quality or productivity, it's a power grab pure and simple," concludes Mooney. "The seed and agrochemical industry will argue that engineered seed sterility is highly beneficial to the environment because it will eliminate the problem of horizontal gene transfer - it will prevent cross-pollination and thus the escape of engineered genes from transgenic plants to nearby weeds or wild relatives," explains Hope Shand of RAFI. There is concern that transgenic plants could pass genes on to wild plant relatives - thus creating "superweeds" that could wreak havoc on the environment. Suicide seeds could put to rest the specter of genetic pollution, and it conveniently offers a "green" rationale for acceptance of genetic seed sterility. The industry will also argue that suicide seeds prevent pre-harvest crops from sprouting prematurely, and that it will decrease the cost of producing hybrid seeds. Finally, industry will argue that they can't continue to develop new, more productive varieties for agriculture unless they get a fair return on their investment. No matter what rationale is used by the Gene Giants to engineer social acceptance of seed sterility, the technology is unacceptable to growing numbers of civil society organizations around the world who are calling for Terminator Technologies to be banned by governments. According to RAFI, the easiest way to ban Terminator is for national patent offices to reject Traitor claims on the legal grounds of ordre public (against public morality). The specter of genetic seed sterilization is so serious that Terminator technologies will be debated at several United Nations bodies, including UN Food and Agriculture Organization in April, the Convention on Biological Diversity in May, the UN Commission on Science, Technology, and Development in May. A RAFI report to be released later this week, "Traitor Technology" provides an in-depth analysis of the seed sterility patents. For this study and a detailed chart of patent claims, visit RAFI's homepage at: http://www.rafi.org ------- CONTACTS: Pat Mooney, Executive Director RAFI Tel: +1 204-453-5259 E-mail: rafi@rafi.org Edward Hammond, Program Officer RAFI Tel: +1 206-323-7378 E-mail: hammond@rafi.org Hope Shand, Research Director RAFI Tel: +1 717-337-6482 E-mail: hope@rafi.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 09:23:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA04267 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:23:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00218; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:17:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29964 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:16:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <32894-26411>; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:16:57 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:16:56 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: RAFI News: More Seed Sterilization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 Hi All; Did anyone happen to hear Pat Mooney (from RAFI) talking to Art Bell the other night...He was very good and Art said, that he himself had no idea this way going on...but at the end he commented that by controlling the world's food you control the people of the world. I had to chuckle when he mentioned that he has found that Canadian's speak very quietly, but when they do you had better listen... Look at Art's Web Site..artbell.com I really think Hugh Lovel should be on his radio program, to talk about biodynamics & subtle energies...the program goes internationally... and Brewster Kneen, a Canadian who wrote 'Farmegeddon: Food & the Culture of Biotechnology'- about the corporate take over of the food industry.. Someone called in and mentioned that the USDA will get a % of the sales of terminator seeds...and someone else said that they thought what was going on in Washington was just a smokescreen for what is really happening outside DC. If you have any suggestions for his program send him an email....Art is open to anyone as a guest, who he finds has something people would like to, or should hear..... ---Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada email:chebucto.ns.ca From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 11:31:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07017 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:31:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21387; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:24:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20935 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:22:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.3.60]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:23:21 +0000 Message-ID: <36B08F48.666E@cwcom.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:24:40 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: BD publications Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 Allan - a minor error in your posted listing of these publications: the overseas subscription to Star and Furrow including airmail is stg6.00 - stg5.00 only gets you surface-mail delivery. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 13:26:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09697 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:26:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11436; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:20:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11115 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:18:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.23]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990128182026.XSQG678125.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:20:26 +1300 Message-ID: <36B0AA88.1487@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:20:56 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study:L3:1 Hydrogen the carrier of the spirit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 In the light of my article/post and discussions putting forward the relationships of the elements of protein to the spiritual activiites I wish to add....... I still wish to address Malcolms post of the 1.21.1999 however in the meantime a few other thoughts have arisen. When I read the third lecture now through the eyes of hydrogen as the spirits fundamental carrier, I see the passages saying carbon and sulphur are the egos carriers in the same light as if we say the physical body is the carrier into the physical of the spirit. Which is in fact the truth however we must not make the mistake of believing that the physical body is the spirit. As Krsna tells us in the Bagavada Gita, the spirit is pure and eternal and not Earth bound, and while it resides in the physical it should not be confused with the physical. The physical body is not only the carrier of the spirit it also houses the etheric and astral activities in the physical as well. And so it is with Carbon. Our physical bodies are carbon based lifeforms (albeit with a hydrogen/spirit catalyst) and it is this Carbon base which provides the platform for, or carries, all the other physical and spiritual activities taking place in lifeforms. Just as it it incorrect to completely identify the spirit and physical body as one, so I believe it is incorrect to completely identify the spirts activity with carbon. Read these passages as if Carbon is a car filled with several passangers rather than just one, and see if this could be a possibility and that Carbon is indeed a carrier of the spirit, and everything else too. Early on in the creative process Carbon and Hydrogen must combine. Just as in astronomy the two vortexes of the vertical plane must combine and begin working off each other before the horizontal planes of the galaxies and solar systems can become manifest. These two elemets C & H form a primary polarity , in the same manner we see Ca & Si. ( Hey, note how if we combine these two primary polarities we have lime and silicic acid). In the physical we see Carbon catalysed by hydrogen, and as JT tells us, in the Sun we see Hydrogen catalysed by Carbon. This is the vertical polarity of life. Wherever you look in 'living' processes I am sure you will see these two elements in tandem. Regarding Sulphur >From my readings most notably the first three lectures of 'Curative Education' I am left with the image of Sulphur working in life in the same way oil works in a motor. The elements of protein H,N,O,C are the block, cyclinders, piston and crankshaft of life however without sulphur/oil they sieze up and create autism in humans, while in the soil no sulphur, sees the plant starve. Anyway, just thoughts for the interested. Glen A From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 15:38:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12666 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:38:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05686; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:31:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05345 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:29:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 105y5F-00070G-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:30:38 +0000 Message-ID: <36B0C850.9848A7D8@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:28:00 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BDNow Subject: OFF:Small farms in Nepal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 I am currently reading up on some research that has been going on in Nepal which is highlighting some interesting things. Hill farming in Eastern Nepal is a total integration between crops, animals and trees. It has been this way for centuries but as the natural forest cover is decreasing more trees are being grown on-farm. Leaves are the main feed for livestock. Over the last 20 years researchers have been trying to find ways to help these farmers get more out of their systems and have introduced new techniques or inputs. Many have not been taken up even though they appear to offer benefits. Recently there has been an interest by researchers in 'indigenous knowledge' and, especially in agroforestry, a recognition that science may not know as much as the farmer. Its changing a bit and there are intricate computerised 'knowledge systems' being developed whereby farmers are interviewed and the information is 'formalised' and put into computer. Eventually 'knowledge bases' are built up on a particular area, e.g. green manure, erosion, etc. Research institutions are now using these knowledge bases to see how they can better adapt their research programmes to produce the sort of information that farmers want. The problem has been one of communication - even where researchers and farmers speak the same language there have been a lot of different dialects and local farming terms, together with differing amounts of formal education (of farmers, extensionists and researchers) which have contributed to misunderstandings. What the researchers recognise is that often they are discovering the same as the farmer but they measure and deduce whereas the farmer has learnt by years of experience. It just struck me as interesting that these small farms are pretty much entities in their own right; that they are well balanced in terms of plants, animals, humans; and that the farmer learns through observation to pretty good effect .......... Sound familiar? Alison From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 22:53:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19688 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:53:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA00465; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:45:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mnsinc.com (relay1.mnsinc.com [206.55.3.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00036 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:42:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from lizard (a0134.chantilly.mns.net [206.239.104.166]) by relay1.mnsinc.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA20823 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:43:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:43:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990128223837.1bdf8d98@mail.mnsinc.com> X-Sender: jspencer@mail.mnsinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: JSpencer Subject: OFF: Glyphosphate Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 Margaret who posted about glyphosphate & epilepsy: Please contact me by private email. I'd like to get further information about your experience with glyphosphate, as relates to multiple cgemical sensitivity. Thanks. --John Spencer, Herndon VA From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Jan 29 08:46:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26631 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:46:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA06855; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:38:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f94.hotmail.com [207.82.250.200]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA06730 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:38:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 29582 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 1999 13:38:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990129133846.29581.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:38:46 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study:L3:1 Hydrogen the carrier of the spirit Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:38:46 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 Dear Glen, I like this! In this sense, we look to see things not as they are mixed but in how they maintain unique individual character while continuing to exist within the whole. It is possible also to note character of the whole by understanding the natural function and quantites of each passenger(element) necessary to promote health. From my readings most notably the first three lectures of 'Curative Education' I am left with the image of Sulphur working in life in the same way oil works in a motor. The elements of protein H,N,O,C are the block, cyclinders, piston and crankshaft of life however without sulphur/oil they sieze up and create autism in humans, while in the soil no sulphur, sees the plant starve.> If the plants starve, what happens latter on in the chain? Each preparation has in some respect, a different assimilation of sulphur as reguards each plants process. Mabey the reasons for Steiners indications of harvesting flowers. Each time used incorporates different working of sulphur into the solid and then broken down and re-assimilated through composting are then able to attain new forms of life, but in association with carbon. Thank-You. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Jan 29 12:57:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03885 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:57:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA14801; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:50:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14457 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:48:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.65]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAD3740 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:40:11 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990129094100.03acd470@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:41:00 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: OFF: Fw: Experts on Genetic Engineering on National Public Radio! In-Reply-To: <19990129133846.29581.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 Dear Friends, The following might be of interest to some on this forum: -----Original Message----- From: blaine To: Recipient list suppressed Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 10:25 PM Subject: Fwd: Experts on Genetic Engineering on National Public Radio! Please Forward to Your Friends: February 5th National Public Radio Hosts--Experts Discuss Hazards of Genetic Engineering Dear friends, On February 5th, National Public Radio will broadcast a replay of a special one hour interview of the City Club Forum, which will feature Dr. John Fagan, top cancer researcher and pioneer in the hazards of genetic engineering, and Dr. Steven Drucker, founder of the Alliance for Bio-Integrity. They will speak on the impacts of genetic engineering on our food supply at the City Club (216-621-0082.) in Cleveland on Thursday, January 28 at 12 noon. ================================= A list of radio stations playing this NPR show, which will be aired at different times on February 5th, will be posted on Steve Drucker's web site (Alliance for Bio-integrity): http://www.bio-integrity.org If one's local NPR station is not located there, you may call 515-472-5554 or 202-547-9359 to get the information. ================================== Of course, if this NPR show is not available, one may call one's local NPR radio station and request that this show played in your area. The City Club Forum is a one hour show, broadcast at different times on NPR stations across the nation. There are 188 stations on the carriage list, and additional repeater/ translator stations totaling 409. Dr. Fagan, Ph. D., is the first person to have returned a research grant to the National Institutes of Health, due to concerns that his work could lead to dangerous applications. He has lectured all over the world on the hazards of genetically manipulated organisms, both in terms of our health, and the environment. He has published the book, "Genetic Engineering, the Hazards; Vedic Engineering, the Solutions" which is available through MUM Press (800-831-6523). Steven M. Drucker, JD, has filed a lawsuit with the FDA on behalf of the Alliance for Bio- Integrity, made up of scientists, health professionals, religious leaders, consumers, and public interest groups, to obtain mandatory safety testing and labeling of all genetically manipulated foods. Genetic manipulation is a relatively new practice of splicing genes from dissimilar species and phyla into plants, to improve handling characteristics or pesticide resistance. This process is not the same as hybridization by which one uses genes from the same species and uses natural reproductive mechanisms, but rather a practice that use potentially hazardous laboratory splicing techniques to put the DNA of bacteria, viruses, or even animals or fish, into foods. These new organisms are, in turn, sold in supermarkets with no labeling to indicate that they are genetically modified.. There has been minimal, and often questionable testing of the effects of these unnatural foods on the human digestion, and insufficient research into the possible consequences of cross-pollination with traditional crops, so we are taking great risks with limited knowledge. This is a great concern of everyone interested in the integrity of the food supply and also of the long-range impact upon the environment of planting and then selling these organisms as food. This City Club forum is a great opportunity to get updated information from two great experts on the whole issue, and to consider what action we may take to require labeling of such organisms if they are sold in our stores or to put a ban on sale of such organisms until sufficient research is successfully completed. Enjoy the show. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Jan 29 14:19:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06016 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:19:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA29361; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:08:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28644 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:05:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.90] (client-151-196-125-90.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.90]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08492 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:06:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901291906.OAA08492@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:01:36 -0500 Subject: Off: Asilomar Farmers on Y2K From: "Steven McFadden" To: BD now Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Alt_MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part" --Alt_MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This has been on other lists, but I thought some in the BDNow Hoop might like to have it in stand alone form. I have attached in in MS word '98 -- so some may be able to recover it in that format. It should come out as tw= o pages -- easy for back to back copying should you feel that would be helpfu= l for your community. Peace, Steven From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Sustainable Agriculture Network sanet-mg-digest Wednesday, January 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 781 Subject: Y2K Statement Emerges from Asilomar EcoFarm Conference Y2K and the Food Supply A Message from Concerned American Farmers: "Prepare" Our food system - from seed to table - is fragile. Potential disruptions of our food supply caused by the year 2000 computer bug (Y2K) may highlight this vulnerability. =85 Food travels an average 1300 miles from farm-gate to dinner plate. =85 Urban areas have only 3 days supply of food in the supermarkets. =85 Most food transactions depend on thousands of computer chips. =85 Farmers rely on inputs of seeds, fertilizers, machinery, electricity, fue= l and water to produce and harvest our crops and livestock. =85 Food processors rely on automated systems to turn our harvests into consumer-ready products. =85 Distributors, wholesalers and retailers depend on computerized systems to coordinate, transport, refrigerate, store and sell food products to consumers. According to the USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service, "Any interruption along this farm-to-fork chain can result in a direct loss to those who supply food. That can mean more expensive, less available, food supplies." We believe that our response to Y2K should be neither panic nor procrastination, but rather, preparation. No one knows for sure if January 1, 2000 will be a 'bump in the road' or a widespread breakdown. As American farmers, we believe the responsible action is to prepare. It is important to make changes that are broadly beneficial to the community, farm, and food system, regardless of the uncertain consequences of Y2K. Preparation for Y2K provides us an opportunity to shore up the vulnerabilit= y of our food system and make changes that will better enable farmers to keep the world fed - one community at a time - and to make our communities more self-reliant . As farmers, we believe that 1999 is not a time to 'run for the hills' but rather a time to head for our town halls to develop community-based strategies on how to keep our neighbors fed - both urban and rural - in event of disruption in food supplies. We present the following ideas for consideration to prepare our farms and our communities for the year 2000: =85 Identify the resources and skills within yourself, your family and your community to grow, process and prepare food. A variety of skills will be needed to make the food system resilient to disruption. =85 Ask those with organizing skills to initiate community meetings to establish local contingency plans for food, security, energy and water supplies. =85 Identify neighbors who may need extra assistance during a food crisis - the elderly, those with special diet requirements, and the poor. Include them in planning. =85 Establish individual and community gardens, provide classes in gardening and food preservation. =85 Develop a "Y2K Cookbook for Eating Locally" with help of chefs, older folks, and local food editors. =85 Buy directly from local producers. Opportunities include joining a CSA (community supported farm), keeping local farmers' markets open year round, and supporting roadside stands. =85 Collaborate with public institutions (hospitals, schools, prisons) and private institutions (restaurants and grocery stores) to identify local foo= d sources and encourage them to begin now to buy locally produced and processed foods. =85 Develop alternate water supplies, collections, storage and distribution systems. =85 Buy a little extra seed and plant an open-pollinated seed garden. If you plant open-pollinated seed this year you can then save the seed from your 1999 crops and plant it in the spring of 2000. Hybrid seeds will fail or mutate in their 2nd season. =85 Plant more storage crops and winter gardens. =85 Fix or replace computers and equipment not "Y2K compliant." =85 Contact suppliers and customers about their preparations. =85 Make alternate plans if necessary. On December 17, 1998 Janet Abrams, Executive Director of the President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion, said that the U.S. government anticipates = " a large series of mild to moderate disruptions across the country...These are situations that in usual times you might be able to call on the state o= r the federal government to help solve, but we are stressing to our local officials that they're going to have to take care of these problems on thei= r own." This means it is up to all of us. We invite you to join with others in your community to build a more secure and resilient food system. A good first step is starting the conversation with your family and your neighbors. We wish you well. Official Statement Endorsed by attendees of the 19th Annual Ecological Farming Conference, Asilomar, California - January 23, 1999. --Alt_MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Off: Asilomar Farmers on Y2K This has been on other lists, but I thought some in the BDNow Hoop might li= ke to have it in stand alone form.  I have attached in in MS word '98 -= - so some may be able to recover it in that format.  It should come out= as two pages -- easy for back to back copying should you feel that would be= helpful for your community.

Peace, Steven

From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu=
Sustainable Agriculture Network
sanet-mg-digest      Wednesday, January 27 1999 &n= bsp;    Volume 01 : Number 781

Subject: Y2K Statement Emerges from Asilomar EcoFarm Conference


Y2K and the Food Supply

A Message from Concerned American Farmers:

 "Prepare&quo= t;


Our food system - from seed to table - is fragil= e. Potential disruptions of our food supply caused by the year 2000 computer= bug (Y2K) may highlight this vulnerability.

=85 Food travels an aver= age 1300 miles from farm-gate to dinner plate.

=85 Urban areas have onl= y 3 days supply of food in the supermarkets.

=85 Most food transactio= ns depend on thousands of computer chips.

=85 Farmers rely on inpu= ts of seeds, fertilizers, machinery, electricity, fuel and water to produce = and harvest our crops and livestock.

=85 Food processors rely= on automated systems to turn our harvests into
consumer-ready products.

=85 Distributors, wholes= alers and retailers depend on computerized systems to coordinate, transport,= refrigerate, store and sell food products to consumers.

According to the USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service, "Any interru= ption along this farm-to-fork chain can result in a direct loss to those who= supply food. That can mean more expensive, less available, food supplies.&q= uot;

We believe that our response to Y2K should be neither panic nor procrastina= tion, but rather, preparation. No one knows for sure if January 1, 2000 will= be a 'bump in the road' or a widespread breakdown.

As American farmers, we believe the responsible action is to prepare. It is= important to make changes that are broadly beneficial to the community, far= m, and food system, regardless of the uncertain consequences of Y2K.

Preparation for Y2K provides us an opportunity to shore up the vulnerabilit= y of our food system and make changes that will better enable farmers to kee= p the world fed - one community at a time - and to make our communities more= self-reliant .

As farmers, we believe that 1999 is not a time to 'run for the hills' but r= ather a time to head for our town halls to develop community-based strategie= s on how to keep our neighbors fed - both urban and rural - in event of disr= uption in food supplies.

We present the following ideas for consideration to prepare our farms and o= ur communities for the year 2000:

=85 Identify the resourc= es and skills within yourself, your family and your community to grow, proce= ss and prepare food. A variety of skills will be needed to make the food sys= tem resilient to disruption.

=85 Ask those with organ= izing skills to initiate community meetings to establish local contingency p= lans for food, security, energy and water supplies.
  
=85 Identify neighbors who may need extra assistance during a food crisis - th= e elderly, those with special diet requirements, and the poor. Include them = in planning.

=85 Establish individual= and community gardens, provide classes in gardening and food preservation.<= BR>
=85 Develop a "Y2K = Cookbook for Eating Locally" with help of chefs, older folks, and local= food editors.

=85 Buy directly from lo= cal producers. Opportunities include joining a CSA (community supported farm= ), keeping local farmers' markets open year round, and supporting roadside s= tands.

=85 Collaborate with pub= lic institutions (hospitals, schools, prisons) and private institutions (res= taurants and grocery stores) to identify local food sources and encourage th= em to begin now to buy locally produced and processed foods.

=85 Develop alternate wa= ter supplies, collections, storage and distribution systems.

=85 Buy a little extra s= eed and plant an open-pollinated seed garden.  If you plant open-pollin= ated seed this year you can then save the seed from your 1999 crops and plan= t it in the spring of 2000. Hybrid seeds will fail or mutate in their 2nd se= ason.

=85 Plant more storage c= rops and winter gardens.

=85 Fix or replace compu= ters and equipment not "Y2K compliant."

=85 Contact suppliers an= d customers about their preparations.

=85 Make alternate plans= if necessary.

On December 17, 1998 Janet Abrams, Executive Director of the President's Co= uncil on Year 2000 Conversion, said that the U.S. government anticipates &qu= ot; a large series of mild to moderate disruptions across the country...Thes= e are situations that in usual times you might be able to call on the state = or the federal government to help solve, but we are stressing to our local o= fficials that they're going to have to take care of these problems on their = own."

This means it is up to all of us. We invite you to join with others in your= community to build a more secure and resilient food system. A good first st= ep is starting the conversation with your family and your neighbors. We wish= you well.

Official Statement Endorsed by attendees of the 19th Annual Ecological F= arming Conference, Asilomar, California - January 23, 1999.
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--MS_Mac_OE_596788_3000463297_MIME_Part-- --MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Jan 29 18:27:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11732 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:27:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA06367; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:20:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mnsinc.com (relay1.mnsinc.com [206.55.3.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06059 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:18:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from lizard (a0079.chantilly.mns.net [206.239.104.111]) by relay1.mnsinc.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA18193 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:19:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:19:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990129181422.1bdf3598@mail.mnsinc.com> X-Sender: jspencer@mail.mnsinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: JSpencer Subject: OFF: VA Plant-Insect Workshop Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 The Virginia Native Plant Society has announced a one-day workshop on Nature's Partnerships: Plant-Insect Connections. The event will be held at the University of Richmond, Richmond VA, on Saturday, March 13, 1999. The workshop schedule consists of: Carnivorous Plants and Insect Interactions -- Philip M. Sheridan, Director, Meadowview Biological Research Station, Woodford VA The Importance of Bumblebees and Other Native Insects as Plant Pollinators -- Dr. Brad Goodner, Assistant Professor of Biology, University of Richmond Plant Galls: An Unequal Partnership -- Dr. Raymond J. Gagne, research entomologist retired from Systematic Entomology Laboratory, USDA Creating Urban Habitats for Moths and Butterflies -- Dr. Ronald J. Harvey, museum specialist in the Department of Entomology of the National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution Registration fee is $10 for members of VNPS, $25 for non-members (which includes $15 membership). For more information, contact Effie Fox at 540-347-4090. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Jan 30 06:12:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA19220 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:12:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA23058; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:59:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA22976 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:57:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.174] (pm3mbr3-67-158.intrepid.net [206.102.67.158]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00574; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:58:30 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:50:08 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: seeds Cc: hwashen@trace.net.tw Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 Hi, Can you refer me to sources of non-hybrid, open pollenating seeds? I am working with farmers in Taiwan using biodynamic methods to transition from chemical to organic farming. Thank you, Bill Watson Eden (T'ien Lin) Partners hwashen@trace.net.tw From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Jan 30 08:11:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA19831 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:11:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA27181; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:03:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27109 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:01:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33843-28965>; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:02:24 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:02:24 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: RE: Constitutional Elements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 Hi All; The Homeopathic on-line study group to which I belong has been discussing how to recognise a person's constitutional characterisitics, when 'in health', not as we usually read in texts describing constitutional prescribing as related to a person 'in disease.' Steiner's works and teachings are part of the July Homeopathic Conf. in Ottawa, so he is gradually creeping into our discussions and I thought perhaps some of you would appreciate the following. I posted this: > I was reading a book' Anthroposphical Medicine' by Victor Bott, MD and > it has a chart of the 4 Constitutional & Natural Elements,Cardinal > organs and Temperments. > > --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia email: av204@chebucto.ns.ca > > CONSTITUTIONAL CARDINAL NATURAL TEMPERMENTS > ELEMENTS ORGANS ELEMENTS > > Ego Heart Fire Choleric > > Astral Body Kidney Air Sanguine/Nervous > > Etheric Body Liver Water Lymphatic/Phlegmatic > > Physical Body Lung Earth Melancholic > > ----------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Jan 30 21:59:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09817 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:59:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05679; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:51:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05436 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:49:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.174] (pm3mbr3-67-130.intrepid.net [206.102.67.130]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26163 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:50:51 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:49:54 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: women running with farms Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 Is anybody out there? End of Jan. and moon in most juicy Cancer I set the alarm for 4 am to catch a few more hrs of seed planting in the start house. Bitter cold for Northern California and I'm fighting off a flu that got me as I flatlined before the full moon. I am glad for the flow, even if my babes are grown, but why does my strong, otherwise well nourished,dairyless body go into immune freefall? Any feedback from a sister out there? We are one year into this project of rescuing this BD farm and filling a huge void on our coastal side of this beautiful land mass 16 miles from the ocean. The old farmer, Charles Martin moved away 2 years ago and left a mess. I saw this farm in it's prime 10 years ago and it is so worth saving. I kept a strong vision and some how raised the 40,000. for the down. It is truly magic as I am (was) a farmer without a farm because land prices are crazy here. Otherwise we have it all. Anyway, the old guy arranged a lease option with me and said he'de carry the contract, then as we go along, pulls out and I am faced with rejection from the Feds and their Morgage deals because sisters, my tax returns are not good enough! Any body got a name to lend to a great project, give me a mail. I'll find somebody to co-sign! I really could use some practical advice reguarding the seed planting guidelines. Being indoors a bit these past few days I am well into delete with over a thousand mails from bdnow,most of it junk but some real gems and great lectures. I went to Bioneers in Oct. and Anna Edey was a great inspiration for really looking at redesign of something as simple as my chicken coop. SO,what about seed planting,as we will be doing alot of it in weeks to come. I already have flts of spinach and Mache, lettuces so wee and dear ready to fill the cold frames. Started 16 new flats last week, and more this afternoon if my strengh holds. So can anyone answer these questions, if they haven't givin up reading..... I use the Stella Natura and today for example we were in flower till 11am which means 8am pacific time,(why I got up so early) I had sweet pea seeds soaking and thought...is it when you begin to expose aseed to any elemental force that would change it ,or when it comes in direct contact with the soil? What about seeds that need a soak or and type of scarification? Also, starting mix. I have always liked Chadwicks advice about providing some of the lands compost incorporated into a mix so they can taste the goodness to come from their moment of birth. I screen some good, finished stuff and mix it with the best so called organic mix I can get, these days it's ORGANIC GARDENER which says it contains sedge peat,perlite(yuck0 vericulite, chicken manure, rock phosphate, ground limestone, bat guano and kelp. Two thirds this, then farm compost, is this too rich. They seem to love it and starts are very healthy but the expense is much and we need to cut some costs as we are going from 1 to 4 acres production. I could use some interns this spring, anyone out there? Just got a call from my mom in Texas who till now has remained hardlined about her crazy, hippie, farmer daughter,should have married DR, Lawyer,etc. They will co sign!!!! Mama, I'm nearly middle age now, time to let it all go by,and as Joni says, HAPPINESS IS THE BEST FACE LIFT! this story will have a happy, visionary now and tomorrow,hey anybody want to invest? Gotta go, feeling a weight off, think I'll beat this flu after all. ANY WOMEN FARMERS OUT THERE IN BD LAND??? Kate Clark, FOXGLOVE FARM, COMPTCHE CA> Kate Clarke Reply-To: kyla@mcn.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Jan 30 22:46:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10440 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:46:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA10374; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:38:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10162 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:36:39 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AXLSa20555 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:37:06 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <3e7a5e7c.36b3cfe2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:37:06 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: women running with farms Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 Hi Kate, I enjoyed reading your thoughts. You sure do have many of them all going at once. Sounds like me. Although I am not the main farmer here I totally understand all that you mention about rescuing a farm and trying to figure out how to pay for it. I'm not the farmer here in Ke'anae, Maui, I am the farmer's wife. We too have tried to "buy" a few farms along the way, but none so far. We are renting an acre in Hawaii and are in our 9th year over here. My husband, Patrick is the best biodynamic farmer I know. Those biodynamic farmers are a determined bunch. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Keep them going. They are interesting and have a new perspective on the day to day chores of a woman living and running with the seedlings. Take care, Elizabeth tell your mom she is a wise lady investing in land that grows food. and I know of a few ladyfolks that ask about working on farms. I'll pass along your address From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 09:03:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16025 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:03:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA12258; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:56:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12055 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:53:22 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UAJKa03537 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:53:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <233ea625.36b46066@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:53:42 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: BD Newsletters & Journals, updated list Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 Dear Alan, While LILIPOH is not primarily a biodynamic publication, it finds itself adding more and more articles on biodynamics due to its focus on health. The upcoming issue, Allergies and Asthma, has a whole section on BD. Does this warrant inclusion in the list as a resource? Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 11:18:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17699 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:18:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA26551; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26373 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.19]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:18:46 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:11:31 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: January 30, 1999 - February 05, 1999 Message-ID: <74AEF8C752430DD18525670A0058DBE0.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id LAA26374 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 Happy Full Blue Moon and Eclipse!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Calendar of the Soul [January 30, 1999 - February 05, 1999] Forty-third Week (January 26-February 1) In winter's depths is kindled True spirit life with glowing warmth; It gives to world appearance, Through forces of the heart, the power to be. Grown strong, the human soul defies With inner fire the coldness of the world. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ In winterlichen Tiefen Erwarmt des Geistes wahres Sein; Es gibt dem Weltenscheine Durch Herzenskräfte Daseinsmächte; Der Weltenkälte trotzt erstarkend Das Seelenfeuer im Menscheninnern. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+43 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 14:51:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22748 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:51:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23430; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:44:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23093 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:41:31 -0500 (EST) From: marnew@webtv.net Received: from mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.170]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id LAA07182; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:42:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id LAA28193; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:42:42 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAgGsmro3lZSBgnURtsAQ7am7HutsCFGO0ZDNpK6EDSeUNCrFtSSdnGS+p Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:42:42 -0500 (EST) To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: women running with farms Message-ID: <20738-36B4B232-110@mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Intergalactic Garage 's message of Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:49:54 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 I admire your life choices. i live in manhattan and teach writing at a couple of universities. I participate in a CSA and have been into organics and beyond for many years. Re: your health, check out "eat right for your blood type " by peter d'adamo. (Putnam 96) It contains what may be breakthrough info. d'adamo and his father before him are naturopathic physicians who have been testing out their theories for decades. Marcia Newfield From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 21:33:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28483 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:33:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03610; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:26:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03246 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:22:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp12.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.12]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA21759 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:24:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990131212835.007d3a30@vaxxine.com> X-Sender: laura_s@vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:28:35 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Laura Sabourin Subject: Re: pig-er-ators and BD compost preps In-Reply-To: <199901311701.MAA00802@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 I'm think of getting a few pigs to turn my compost (100+ tonnes) and wondered if anyone on the list has used this method. My concern is when would you apply the compost preps ? Pre or Post Pig ? Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 ICQ 23006168 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 22:44:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29210 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:44:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13750; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13291 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:35:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06742 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:36:58 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:13:44 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: BD/Paramagnetics Research question Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 Bob Pike the organic ag techno person in Maine recently told me that Maria Menger (?) in CA tested some soil with a paramagnetic meter which showed a reading of paramagnetic150 . She then applied a BD prep, perhaps 500, then at some time tested treated soil which showed 350. Very interesting. Lots more to know about this little trial, but Bob Pike doesn't know how to contact her. Does anyone know how to contact her? Also of interest in this matter is that Hugh C. told me a while back that he had the preps tested on paramag. meter and they yielded numbers of little or no interest meaning that the numbers were slightly either side of neutral on the meter. If all this is so, Maria's result idicates, perhaps, that both agent and target come alive upon their contact. Any case, some more information from Maria is required, some contact with her to make this come alive and be worthwhile information beyond being only rumor. Any case, Merry Christmas, Happy This Year, folks! Jim. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 22:44:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29222 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13994; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13362 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06804 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:12 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990131212835.007d3a30@vaxxine.com> References: <199901311701.MAA00802@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:34:58 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: pig-er-ators and BD compost preps Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 >I'm think of getting a few pigs to turn my compost (100+ tonnes) and >wondered if anyone on the list has used this method. My concern is when >would you apply the compost preps ? Pre or Post Pig ? >Laura Sabourin >Feast of Fields Inc >Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht >Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net >R R # 1 >St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 >ICQ 23006168 Dear Laura - Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but wouldn't a pigerator cause uncomposted swine manure to be in your 'finished' compost? It is my understanding that swine manure has been identified as a carrier of pathogens that humans are susceptible to and that even in its fully composted state it is as objectionable as a source of nutrients for food crops as humanure is. ("Swine Flu" was a literal term, you know) I guess this isn't so important if the compost is headed to a pasture or for daylillies...but if it's headed to a vegetable garden or vineyard...hey, watch out!! Just my two-cents. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 22:44:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29230 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:44:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13888; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13347 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:35:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06776 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:04 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:26:48 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF:FWD: Leonard Peltier, other native issues Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 Dear RN List, Jan. 29 Viviane Lerner just sent us news of the upcoming Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier (FEB. 6). I am pleased to have this opportunity to invite you to join the struggle for justice for Leonard Peltier and for indigenous people in general. Someone who has not forgotten Leonard Peltier and who speaks movingly on his behalf is a good friend of mine, Jennifer Wade. Jennifer has been involved in many, many social justice causes, from the civil rights movement in the US, to helping found Amnesty International groups, to helping homeless children, prisoners' rights; the list could go on forever! She is urging people to write Hilary Clinton, to press for clemency for Peltier: To: jslakov@tartannet.ns.ca (Jan Slakov) From: "C.Kline" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:26:49 -0800 Dear Jan: Perhaps by nopw you have heard that WILPF-BC's Jan. 9th programme meeting was [...] about Leonard Peltier who has been held in an American prison for 21 years. Jennifer gave an impassioned documented account of this Lakota Sioux Indian and leader of the American Indian Movement who was found guilty of killing two FBI agents (despite strong evidence suggesting that the trial was a travesty of justice). She pointed out that Ramsey Clark, Jesse Jackson and many other knowledgeable and informed people from around the world have been urging that the case be re-opened or that the the US simply grant him executive clemency. Condemning Canada for not lodging a formal complaint with the U.S. authorities, Jennifer said that Leonard Peltier's situation is known around the world and is seen as a symbol of the mistreatment of native people in America. She has launched a "Hillary Campaign for Leonard," and urges all of us committed to human rights and justice to write to the US First Lady asking her to intercede on his behalf. Hillary's e-mail address is . (The unusual puncuation is correct!) Mailing address is The White House, 1600 Pennsyylvania Ave., Wsashington, D.C. 20500, US. Another action Jennifer suggested is to send a card to Leonard Peltier: POW #89637-132, Box 1000, Leavenworth, Kansas 66048 USA. Leonard Peletier now is very ill and wants only to be reunited with his family and friends for the time he has left. Carolyn Kline, WILPF-BC ************************************************ It is because of my friendship with Jennifer that I know about and have become involved in what is known as the "Kevin Annett case". Kevin Annett was a United Church minister until he was "de-listed" by that Church after he began helping native people bring to light stories of abuse in Canada's residential schools.* Jennifer sat through the United Church hearings which ended up with Kevin's de-listing and was appalled at the unfairness of the whole process. With time, it has become apparent that very powerful people in B.C. (Britich Columbia) want Kevin Annett silenced, even to the extent of arranging for the brake lines of his car to be cut! (*The extent of this abuse is truly shocking: According to the Report of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples, some 40% or 50,000 children sent to residential schools DIED there. And many of those who lived have the sequels of horrible abuse to live with.) To find out more about this case, please write to me or to Kevin himself at Kevin Daniel Annett . You can also check out this month's _New Internationalist_, which has an article about the case. all the best, Jan ******************************************************************** X-Sender: vlerner@smtp.interpac.net Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:49:09 -0800 From: viviane lerner Subject: Fwd: International Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier >Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:39:37 -0500 (EST) >To: noflyby@nonviolence.org >From: Leonard Peltier Support Group >Subject: International Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > >International Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier - February 6th > > >Contacts: Leonard Peltier Support Group / Greater New England > P.O. Box 1999 Jonathan Mark 978-544-7862 > Wendell Depot, MA 01380 Rebecca Tidwell 203-634-8247 > >Leonard Peltier Defense Committee Attn:Gina Chiala or Keith McHenry >P.O. Box 583, Lawrence, KS 66044 Tel: 785-842-5774, Fax: 5796 >http://members.xoom.com/freepeltier/index.html > > >"I have never lost my strong belief in the Creator. I know that he has asked >me to sacrifice to aid my people and I am doing that. I pray that this is >not a lifelong obligation. Perhaps I am here to call attention to the plight >of Indian people or maybe I am here to further the fight for our religious >and cultural freedom. Perhaps my imprisonment will expose this country's >dual judicial system and maybe it will help to unite people all races and >religions in the crucial quest for peace and justice." > >- Leonard Peltier > > > >Groups in over 30 cities plan to unite for an International Day of Protest >to Free Leonard Peltier on February 6, 1999. Among the locations* where the >protests will take place are London; Amsterdam; Brussels; Washington, D.C.; >San Diego; Tacoma, WA; Rapid City SD; and Springfield, MA. The Leonard >Peltier Support Group / Greater New England will be rallying and >distributing literature on Peltier's case outside the Federal Building at >1550 Main Street in Springfield, Massachusetts, beginning at noon. > >February 6, 1999 marks the twenty-third anniversary of Native American >leader Leonard Peltier's incarceration for allegedly killing two FBI agents >on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in 1975. With a profound hope that he >will be free before the millennium, numerous groups have planned events >about Leonard's plight on this anniversary. As supporters of Leonard's >innocence, right to freedom, and valued leadership, we are determined to >work for his release. > >There is overwhelming evidence that his imprisonment is a gross injustice: >(1) U.S. Prosecutors have admitted they cannot prove Peltier fired the shots >that killed the agents; (2) The FBI withheld information from the Peltier >defense on key ballistic tests pointing to Leonard's innocence. > >And there is much more indicating that Peltier is essentially a political >prisoner of the United States. At the time of the shootout in which the two >agents and a Native American died, traditional Lakota Native Americans were >resisting the seizure of their land for uranium mining. In the two years >before the incident, over 60 resisters had been murdered, without >investigation, by a death squad directed by a Native American Council leader >known to be armed, trained, and directed by the FBI. > >Moreover, Leonard Peltier was extradited to the United States from Canada on >the basis of affidavits acknowledged to be false by the Supreme Court of >Canada and by the U.S. government in June 1989. In a 1989 decision, the >Supreme Court of Canada called the affidavits "suspect to the point of >fraud," and urged the Canadian government to "seek immediate and effective >diplomatic redress." > >As of June 1998, the internal review of the facts concerning Leonard's >extradition from Canada was cleared for release to the public, at the >discretion of Canada's Minister of Justice, the Honorable Anne McLellan. >There is little doubt the report will clearly state that the U.S. >fraudulently obtained Leonard's extradition -- and that under the terms of >our countries' extradition treaty, the U.S. must return him to Canada, where >he will finally be freed. So far, Justice McLellan has refused to release >this report. > >Leonard Peltier is currently suffering from complications of maxilla-facial >surgery he underwent at the Springfield, KS, Medical facility in 1996. He is >in excruciating pain, and his health is in peril. Though prison physician >Dr. Collins recommends Leonard be treated at the Mayo clinic in Rochester, >N.Y., prison officials refuse to temporarily transfer Leonard. Many of the >February 6 protesters are fasting and writing letters to help pressure the >Bureau of Prisons, Leavenworth prison, and the U.S. Congress to permit >Leonard's immediate transfer to the Mayo Clinic to relieve his agony. > >We are also actively lobbying President Clinton to finally abide by his 1992 >campaign promise to give Leonard Peltier's case "a fair and impartial >review." Peltier filed a petition for Executive Clemency on November 19, >1993, citing the support of such world leaders as Nelson Mandela and Jesse >Jackson, 55 members of Congress, and resolutions passed by several European >Parliaments. Meanwhile, 20 million people have written the U.S. Government >on behalf of Leonard Peltier, and Amnesty International has cited the >Peltier case as a glaring example of FBI tampering with the judicial process >in a political trial. More than five years after the petition was filed, >President Clinton said the Justice Department hasn't given him their >recommendation yet. This process normally takes six to nine months. > >In the first trial regarding the 1975 shoot-out with the FBI on the Pine >Ridge Reservation, two American Indian Movement (AIM) members were found not >guilty by the jury for reason of self-defense. After losing that case, the >FBI seemed to have crossed ethical and legal boundaries to capture and >convict AIM leader, Leonard Peltier. Now, twenty-three years later, the >February 6 events will be an opportunity to inform more people about the >gross injustices of this case and how to further the support of Leonard >Peltier for justice and human rights. > > > >* "International Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier" 6 February 1999 >will be found in the following locations: > >Europe >Amsterdam, Netherlands; Brussells, Belgium; Paris, France; Helsinki, >Finland; London, England; Derby, England > >South America >Lima, Peru > >Canada >Toronto, Ontario; Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario; Victoria, British Columbia; >Regina, Saskatchewan > >United States >Albany, NY; Atlanta, Ga; Boston, MA; Baltimore, MD; Chicago, IL; Portland, >OR; Eugene, OR; Cincinnati, OH; Kent, OH; Lawrence, KS; Houston, TX; San >Diego, CA; San Francisco, CA; Nashville, TN; Rapid City, SD; Springfield, >MA; Washington, DC; Portland, ME; Tacoma, WA; Denver, CO; Pontiac, MI; >Louisville, KY; Lincoln, NE; Starkville, MS; Jewett City, CT; Hyannis, MA; >Hilton Head, SC; Milwaukee, WI > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: renaissance-network-unsubscribe@cyberjournal.org For additional commands, e-mail: renaissance-network-help@cyberjournal.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 00:31:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA00670 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:31:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA26238; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA25933 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:19:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA09087; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:23:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:23:42 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org cc: clang@webcity-development.com Subject: GENews1-31 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:27:05 -0500 From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Subject: GENews1-31 Thanks to: Jonathan Matthews for distributing the next 2 articles through the NORFOLK GENETIC INFORMATION NETWORK (ngin) http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/ 1. Daily Mail, January 30th, 1999 Plant trials abandoned after 'crop-squat' protest PLANS to grow genetically modified Crops in Britain have suffered a serious setback. Trials on fields owned by Sir Timothy Colman, Lord Lieutenant of Norfolk, and his family have been abandoned after a series of protests, including a three-week long 'crop squat'. Sir Timothy, a member of the Colman's mustard family, insisted he was not involved in the matter, which was dealt with by land agents. 'I welcome the debate on genetic modification - it is an important issue - but I cannot discuss this,' he said. A spokesman for the agents said the trials, on about two acres rented at Kirby Bedon, near Norwich, were run by two firms, Novartis of Switzerland and Monsanto of the U.S. They involved genetically modified sugar beet which had been made resistant to a weedkiller. Commercial farming of GM crops has not yet been approved by the Government. Trials are being carried out at more than 300 sites across the country. There are worries, however, about the monitoring of the experiments, including fears that not enough is being done to ensure the GM crops do not pass on their characteristics to wild plants, creating mutations which could ruin the countryside. 2. Eastern Daily Press, Satunby, January 3O, 1999 Norfolk estate to end GM crops testing: 'Public disquiet' a factor in decision A major Norfook estate is to halt the testing of genetically-modified crops on its land. Crown Point Farms is ending its relationship with bio-technology seed giants Novartis and Monsanto. The decision of the estate, which is owned by the county's Lord Lieutenant Sir Timothy Colman follows intensifying media coverage of bio-engineered foods. Last summer, a GM sugar beet test crop grown on land owned by the estate at Kirby Bedon, near Norwich, was destroyed by protesters as they staged Britain's first ever "crop squat". Estate manager Roly Beazley said the decision to end the GM test plantings, which began in 1994, was made by "mutual agreement" with the biotech firms. However, mounting public concern and media coverage had played their part. "I think the public disquiet and the debate about GM crops that's been running in the national media is a factor," said Mr Beazley. He was unable to say how many test plots had been planted on Crown Point Estate land in the last four years, but said that the largest area in any one year under GM planting was 0.7 hectares (1.7 acres). All tests had been carried out in the full knowledge of the Department of the Environment and followed government regulations ensuring there was no risk of cross-pollinating other plants, he said. The register compiled by ACRE - the Advisory Committee on Releases to the Environment - monitoring GM field tests, reveal that Novartis was licensed to continue planting on CPF land until 2002, and Monsanto until 2003. Environmental campaigners against GM food were jubilant when they learned the plantings were to end. Jonathan Matthews, spokesman for the Norfolk Genetic Information Network, said: "Up till now Crown Point Farms has been heavily involved in these trials and so this news will be very warmly welcomed." Ends ........ Thanks to: jim@niall7.demon.co.uk (jim mcnulty) for posting this: Got hormones? Bovine growth drug under fire Times Union (Albany, NY) Publication Date: January 26, 1999 It was the confluence of two important events that made Carol Baxter start buying organic milk about five and a half years ago. Her oldest daughter had just turned 1 and soon would move from breast milk to cow's milk. And American dairy farmers had just received approval to inject their cows with recombinant bovine growth hormone, a genetically engineered hormone that increases milk production. Baxter, who lives in Palisades, Rockland County, knew of environmental groups' claims that treated cows got more infections and needed more antibiotics, which could then enter their milk. And she learned that some scientists had raised the possibility of an increased cancer risk in people who drank the milk. "Milk is such an important part of a child's diet," she said. "I didn't want my child to be a guinea pig." The Food and Drug Administration has long dismissed such concerns. In the journal Science in 1990, two agency scientists concluded that "no toxicologically significant changes" were seen in rats that ingested the hormone. The agency's approval of the hormone in 1993 rested on the strength of that 90-day rat study, which was commissioned by [ Monsanto ] , the manufacturer. Safety questions about the hormone never went away among health- conscious consumers, and recently the old questions have resurfaced in light of new research and a fresh examination of the rat study. Last week, the Canadian government said that it would not approve the synthetic hormone. Canadian scientists reviewed unpublished data from the study and found health effects that had not been cited in the Science report. Canada's decision leaves the United States the only major country to permit use of the synthetic hormone. Canadian report In its analysis of the Monsanto rat study, the Canadian scientists found that 20 percent to 30 percent of the rats that ingested high doses of the hormone developed antibodies to it, a sign that it was active in the bloodstream. And some of the male rats developed cysts on their thyroids and abnormalities in their prostates. In December, after the Canadian researchers released their findings, Sens. Patrick Leahy and James Jeffords, both of Vermont, asked Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala to investigate whether the FDA overlooked evidence in the case. Shalala has not yet responded. In addition, in December, 21 dairy farmer associations and consumer groups in the United States said they would file suit against the FDA for failing to require additional safety studies of the hormone. "The 90-day rat study doesn't show that recombinant bovine growth hormone is a human health hazard," said Dr. Michael Hanson, a research associate for the Consumer Policy Research Institute, a division of the Consumers Union, one of the groups. "But neither does it show that there is no possibility of any health hazard, as FDA claimed. It's clear that FDA has grossly misled us." The agency is writing a response to the concerns, said Dr. Stephen Sundlof, director of its Center for Veterinary Medicine. He acknowledged that the agency had not reviewed the antibody data in the approval process "for reasons I can't explain." He said the agency had seen the information on the thyroid and prostate effects, but considered them "biologically meaningless" because they were no more prevalent in rats fed high doses of the hormone than in those fed low doses. Ordinarily, if a substance like a drug affects the body, the effects increase as the dose increases. "Consumers have no reason to be concerned about the milk," he said. Monsanto said its product, called Posilac, is safe. Extensive evaluations have established that the hormone supplements for cows do not change the composition and wholesomeness of milk, Dr. David Kowalczyk and Dr. Robert Collier, Monsanto scientists, wrote in a statement released Jan. 12. The scientists point out that the United Nations Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives, which determines the safety of residues from veterinary drugs in foods, affirmed in March that the growth hormone was safe. More studies In addition to the Canadian investigation, two studies published last year rekindled long-standing worries about a possible increased risk of cancer from consuming milk from hormone-treated cows. Reports from two continuing Harvard-based studies, the Physicians' Health Study and the Nurses' Health Study, found that insulin-dependent growth factor 1, a protein that is elevated in the milk of hormone- treated cows, is a strong risk factor for breast cancer and prostate cancer. Researchers in the study say this protein circulates naturally in the human body at such high levels that the added amount in treated milk is unlikely to be noticed. Also, it occurs in breast milk in higher amounts than in the milk of hormone-treated cows. And, the researchers say there is no evidence that consuming the substance in food contributes to cancer risk. Last January, scientists with the Physicians' Health Study reported in Science that men with the highest levels of IGF-1 in their blood were four times as likely to develop prostate cancer as men with the lowest levels. In May, scientists with the Nurses' Health study reported in The Lancet that premenopausal women with high levels of IGF-1 had up to a sevenfold increase in breast cancer risk over those with low levels. They said the findings suggest "that the relation between IGF-1 and risk of breast cancer may be greater than that of other established breast-cancer risk factors," except for family history and dense breast tissue. Dr. Michael Pollack, who was involved with both studies, noted that the difference between the IGF-1 in milk from untreated cows and treated cows is relatively small. Levels range from 1 to 9 nanograms per milliliter of milk from untreated cows and 1 to 13 nanograms per milliliter of milk from treated cows, the FDA said. Still, he said he could not rule out the possibility that daily exposure to the small additional amounts of IGF-1 in milk over a lifetime could increase a person's cancer risk. "It's a hypothetical concern," he said. Even though the increased amount of IGF-1 in treated milk is small, Hanson said the possible health effects could not be dismissed. He cited a 1995 study in the Journal of Endocrinology showing that the breakdown of IGF-1 in rats is slowed in the presence of casein, a protein in milk. "If casein increases the half life of IGF-1, the effects could be dramatic," he said. More testing Several experts agree with the Consumers Union and the other parties in the planned lawsuit against the FDA that more testing is needed to establish whether bovine growth hormone supplementation is safe. "More studies need to be done," said Dr. Marion Nestle, director of the department of nutrition at New York University, who opposed the approval of the hormone as a representative on the drug agency's advisory panel that approved it. "The science on the effects of oral ingestion of IGF-1 is incomplete," the American Medical Association said in a statement last month, in response to a reporter's questions. In the climate of uncertainty, one thing is for sure. Many consumers want milk without added hormones and antibiotics. Sales of organic milk nearly doubled to almost $31 billion in 1997, from about $16 million in 1996, according to dairy industry figures. Some supermarkets, such as Price Chopper, which sells Organic Cow milk in some of its stores, offers milk that states on the label the cows haven't been treated with the genetically engineered hormone. Wendy Gordon, executive director of Mothers and Others for a Livable Planet, said demand was strong for its list of milk manufacturers, organic and nonorganic, whose dairies pledge not to use the synthetic hormone. Those are the dairies whose products are typically sold at health food stores, such as Honest Weight Food Co- op in Albany. "To the best of our knowledge, all of our dairy products, milk and cheese, come from dairies that say they don't use the bovine growth hormone," said Anton Burkett, merchandising coordinator. "We deal with a lot of producers who are organically certified, and get documentation from producers that say they don't use it." (Copyright 1999) .......... European moratorium on clinical tests of animal organ transplants into human beings. (Forwarded by NLP Wessex nlpwessex@bigfoot.com) BBC NEWS 30 January 1999 Sci/Tech Setback for animal to human transplants Pigs are genetically modified to make organs compatible with humans By Corinne Podger of BBC Science The Council of Europe has voted for a moratorium on clinical tests of animal organ transplants into human beings. The decision will be a heavy blow to researchers working on the technique, known as "xenotransplantation". It also means the global shortage of human donor organs will have to be solved some other way. Millions of dollars have already been poured into research on transplanting animal organs into humans. Transplants postponed indefinitely until more is known Most researchers have focused on pigs, which are highly compatible with humans - and by adding some human genes to specially bred pigs, it reduces the risk that transplanted animal organs will be rejected by their human recipients. But researchers have run up against persistent problems. These involve a number of viruses which - while harmless to pigs - might pose serious health risks to humans, and possibly cause new human diseases. While not banning the idea of animal organ transplants altogether, the council of Europe voted to ban clinical tests on real patients in Europe - and wants to see that ban extended worldwide. As a result, any trials of the transplants, which might have gone ahead in Europe this year, have been indefinitely postponed until more is known about the potential hazards. Ethics questions The council also expressed concern about the ethics of animal organ transplants, both for humans, and for animal welfare. With an international shortage of human organs for transplants, many people die while waiting in vain for an organ - like a heart or a liver - that they desperately need. But with the council's decision, animal organs are not going to be the answer - at least in the short term. ............ Posted by: jim@niall7.demon.co.uk (jim mcnulty) Beans means genes Sunday Times - London 24/Jan 99 As the debate about genetically modified food grows, few realise that it is too late to worry: we are already eating it. Stephen Bevan and Jack Grimston report On the streets of Colchester last week the supermarket shoppers were clear: they did not want scientists monkeying around with their food. Forget stay-fresh tomatoes or ever-crunchy lettuce. What the citizens of Essex say they prefer is natural fare, not food derived from "mutant" species of genetically engineered plants. "My main priority is to buy food that is nutritional and safe to eat," said Diana Rees, a local resident. "The thought of a scientist in a lab somewhere playing around with what is going to end up on our plates does not seem natural." Anna Hammond, 36, a mother of two, was also con cerned, but like many people believed the day of genetically modified (GM) food had yet to arrive in Britain. "I know that some stores are keen to sell the stuff but I am not happy about it," she said. "I would be very unhappy if they tried to sneak in things like gene-modified food without telling us." Hammond should prepare to be unhappy. Pick up a packet of biscuits or a ready-made meal or many processed foods in any high street store and the chances are that it will already contain a GM ingredient. It will often not be included on the label, but it will be lurking there whether the stores like it or not. About 60% of processed foods contain soya, according to some estimates. The largest supplier is America, where genetically modified soya and maize are grown across a greater expanse than all the cultivated land in Britain. That soya and maize are exported, mixed with ordinary crops. Nobody can be sure exactly how much ends up in food consumed in Britain. But surely at least our green and pleasant land is free from "Frankenstein flora" because farmers are not yet allowed to grow GM crops? Wrong again. Two weeks ago the government approved the cultivation of a GM oilseed rape after its scientific advisers said the crop would pose no danger to the environment. Other biotech crops are likely to follow. Last week a House of Lords committee examining genetic engineering in agriculture concluded that the benefits of GM food outweighed the risks. "Biotechnology in general and genetic modification in particular offer great potential benefits to agriculture, industry, consumers and even to the environment," said the committee. Opponents accused members of siding with the interests of big business, not the consumer; they claim that nobody can safely predict the effect of letting genetically modified organisms loose among the hedgerows. They also point out that Lord Sainsbury, a government minister involved in policy discussions about GM food, faces a conflict of interest: he has links to the Sainsbury's supermarket chain and to a charitable organisation researching plant science. Professor Tim Lang, director of the Centre for Food Policy at Thames Valley University, said: "There is a juggernaut of billions of dollars of investment in biotechnology, mainly from US companies. It's the fourth revolution since settled agriculture began. I say, hold on. Let's be really sure about these things; let's take it on a case by case basis." THE science is spectacular. Where once cross-breeding was a haphazard affair, now it is possible to take a single gene from one organism and implant it in the DNA of another, altering the properties of plants and animals. Soya can be made resistant to herbicides; wheat can be engineered to produce better flour. Other suggestions are more outlandish. A gene from a jellyfish, for example, can be used as a fluorescent marker and some scientists envisage it making plants glow to indicate when they are short of water or diseased. At first it seemed as if such advances might cause no stir. Ten years ago cheese-makers looking for an alternative to rennet - which comes from the linings of dead calves' stomachs - turned to chymosin, an enzyme produced by genetically modified bacteria. It is now used in making more than 70% of hard cheeses. Nobody seems to mind. By 1996 supermarkets such as [ Safeway ] and Sainsbury's had introduced GM tomato puree, clearly labelled as genetically modified. [ Monsanto ] , a giant American agri-business, was encouraged enough to mount an advertising campaign extolling the benefits of genetic engineering. To a public suspicious after the BSE crisis, the campaign was a big mistake. Surveys showed opinion hardened against GM crops. In Totnes, Devon, tempers boiled over. Guy Watson had built up a successful business there growing organic vegetables. Consumers were voting with their wallets, buying 2.5% more organic food each year. Sainsbury's reported re cently that sales of organic food had jumped from nothing 15 years ago to more than Pounds 1m a week. Watson was enjoying the boom until a seed company chose to grow a trial crop of GM maize next to his farm. He believed the GM maize could cross-fertilise his organic sweetcorn, ruining his status as an organic farm. Watson went to court, lost his case, but won in practice. Local campaigners (not including him) dug up the three trial plots of GM crops. His fears may not have been unfounded. Next month Monsanto is being taken to court for breaching the guidelines over the test growing of a GM crop in Lincolnshire, alleging it failed to separate the GM crop sufficiently from neighbouring fields. Last week Farmers Weekly reported what is thought to be the first case of accidental cross-pollination between GM crops and conventional plants. The authorities are investigating. Prince Charles, the country's best known organic vegetable grower, summed up the fears of many. We should not be "meddling with the building blocks of life", he said last month. "Mixing genetic material from species that cannot breed naturally takes us into areas that should be left to God." In the face of public disquiet, some British local authorities and schools have introduced bans on GM foods, though they are hard to enforce. "It is down to trust between us, the contractor, his suppliers and the manufacturers," said Mark Sleep, manager of catering services at Kent county council. The supermarkets, too, have begun to backtrack. Sainsbury's has no plans to introduce more GM products, said a spokesman, and has been trying to find sources of unmodified soya. Asda is reformulating its own-label products - among them its economy brand baked beans - to ensure they are free of GM ingredients. The consumer, however, is left baffled. Regulations on the labelling of GM food products are a mess. Nobody can decide what should be the minimum content of GM ingredients that must be declared; additives derived from GM sources do not have to be listed; and European Union regulations on approving GM foods apply only to those introduced after May 1997. The whole regulatory approach is flawed, says Julie Shepherd, of the Consumers' Association, because it is based on testing end products. But the testing technology has yet to be fully developed. "The entire labelling system is predicated on the accuracy of tests that no agency has accredited," she says. AT MONSANTO, the GM enthusiasts talk excitedly of everything from more efficient farming to vitamin-enriched fruit and vegetables and plants that will produce biodegradable plastics. They dismiss the perceived risks as overblown, the science as misunderstood. Dr Ray Mathias, of the John Innes Centre, which studies plant biology, argues that people have been interfering in the genetic make-up of plants and animals for hundreds of years through cross- breeding. What genetic engineering can do is bring precision to the process and greater benefits. "Increasingly the focus will be on producing plants that can tolerate greater salinity, extremes of temperature or drought conditions," he said. The centre is working on enhancing the natural cancer-preventing properties of members of the brassica family, which includes broccoli and Brussels sprouts. Will these arguments wash with the public? Research by Sheffield University shows that at present they won't. People do not trust industry and government information. Sue Mayer, of the pressure group Genewatch, believes consumers will remain suspicious until they have a greater say about GM foods. "The government has got to sort out its policy," she said. "At the moment there seems to be an implicit policy that, basically, GM crops and food are a good thing." To GM sceptics, being safe is better than being experimental and sorry. "Why are these things needed?" asked Richard Lacey, emeritus professor of microbiology at Leeds University. "If you take a modified maize or soya, the average consumer won't taste any difference. We don't know what the risk is and there is no great benefit." The advantages lie mainly with the agricultural companies and retailers, not consumers, say critics. Even some of the advantages are disputed: In America some farmers complain that GM crops have failed to live up to their promise, producing low yields and poor hardiness. "The downside is that if you genetically modify in a substantial way, rather than in the gradual breeding and hybridisation programmes that have been going on for centuries, then if you get a dramatic change in food, animal or plant, how do you establish that the product is safe for the environment and the consumer?" said Lacey. Until the industry can persuade people otherwise, opposition to GM foods is likely to intensify. The uncomfortable reality is, however, that consumers are already buying the stuff unwittingly. (Copyright Times Newspapers Ltd, 1999) .......... Joanna Blythman The Guardian 31/1/99 Why governments can't be trusted to protect us against gene foods Soetning happened on Tuesday that kicked one issue to the top of the consumer food agenda . In an unprecedented action more than 130 of Britain's leading food writers and chefs shared a platform with Greenpeace to call for a ban on gene foods. Food writers don't agree easily on on anything; we'll split arcane hairs over how much humidity should be left in sun-dried tomatoes or the optimum cocoa solid ratio for dark chocolate. That's why our concensus that gene foods are a recipe for disater is so significant. Our action started with the realisation that gene foods are the single most important food issue of our lifetimes Gene food s have been creeping into my awareness since 1993, when some top German chefs announced their opposition because of the risks they pose to human health and the enviroment. Since then I have watched the relentless progress of this genetic experiment, through the regulatory process with a growing sense of frustration. Governments and bureaucrats are rolling over for the biotech industry although every indicator of public opinion in Europe and the UK shows that the more consumers know about gene foods the less they want them. Now foods with genetically modified are on our shelves and it has become apparent that we were always going to get them, against our wishes and against our consent. It makes nonsense of any notion of demacratic public control of our precious food chain. _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months See website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 12:13:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09278 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:13:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19143; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09974 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:09:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-5.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.37]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id IAA18364 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:11:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902011611.IAA18364@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:06:02 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: pig-er-ators and BD compost preps In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990131212835.007d3a30@vaxxine.com> References: <199901311701.MAA00802@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 Laura: I agree with Allan's take on the unadvisability of adding not-so-nice uncomposted pigshit to finished compost, and will add these thoughts: 1) why bother to turn the compost at all? 2) pig based "turning" is going to result in a scattered, trampled mess... Sounds like a non-starter to me, Laura. Woody At 09:28 PM 1/31/99 -0500, you wrote: >I'm think of getting a few pigs to turn my compost (100+ tonnes) and >wondered if anyone on the list has used this method. My concern is when >would you apply the compost preps ? Pre or Post Pig ? >Laura Sabourin >Feast of Fields Inc >Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht >Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net >R R # 1 >St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 >ICQ 23006168 > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 15:52:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14762 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:52:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA26115; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f181.hotmail.com [207.82.251.70]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA23679 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:33:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 26906 invoked by uid 0); 1 Feb 1999 20:34:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19990201203422.26905.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:33:57 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD/Paramagnetics Research question Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:33:57 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 Hello, It seems to me that if Barrel Compost Preparation with the addition of Basalt or some other highly paramagnetic rock powder were added that the reading would be on par. In addition, if humus through 500 was added to soil vacant with organic matter, mabey it is the contrast between the dia and para- magnetic causing the increased meter readings. Sincerely, Michael < Bob Pike the organic ag techno person in Maine recently told me that Maria Menger (?) in CA tested some soil with a paramagnetic meter which showed a reading of paramagnetic150 . She then applied a BD prep, perhaps 500, then at some time tested treated soil which showed 350. Very interesting. Lots more to know about this little trial, ...> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 17:19:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17584 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:19:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10091; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:10:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09770 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:08:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id RAA05420; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:08:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:07:19 -0500 From: Judith VanRiper <73512.1113@compuserve.com> Subject: women running with farms Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org To: "INTERNET:bdnow@envirolink.org" , Kate Clarke Message-ID: <199902011708_MC2-68CC-F975@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: Judith VanRiper <73512.1113@compuserve.com> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 Fellow runner Kate: I have a farm in Puerto Rico which takes most of my time. It is the second farm I have owned here, the first (65 acres) was expropriated for a highway, now the highway people are threatening to do it again to my smaller (10 acres) one. If it happens again, I think I will just be a free-lance farmer. It has been my experience that women do bring something different to agriculture, perhaps a more nuturing concern and with more emphasis on the whole rather than the parts.. Lets keep a running list. It would be a great way to spend a vacation and/or more time getting the "feel of the land" all around the world. I am in the process of rehab'ing an 80 year old house as guest quarters. Keep in touch. Judith VanRiper HC 08 Box 1145 Ponce, PR 00731 73512.1113@compuserve.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 17:35:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17952 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:35:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA13230; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:28:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12969 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:26:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp199.cy-net.net [208.21.195.8]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA02056 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:41:22 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4DFF.A7CD4740@FLYLO>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:26:44 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4DFF.A7CD4740@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: women running with farms Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:26:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFF.A7D4E860" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFF.A7D4E860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm new and missed the start of this thread. Could someone clue me in? I'm a woman running a farm in Texas and have a small goat dairy and = gardens on 135 acres, not certified OG, but no chemicals. Mostly open = pollinated seed types.=20 martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Judith VanRiper [SMTP:73512.1113@compuserve.com] Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 4:07 PM To: INTERNET:bdnow@envirolink.org; Kate Clarke Subject: women running with farms ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFF.A7D4E860 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiwWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v 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AA00/TcAAMht ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFF.A7D4E860-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 18:47:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19230 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:47:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24474; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:39:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (ecpport2.ecopost.com.au [203.28.64.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23915 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:36:10 -0500 (EST) From: poss@midcoast.com.au Received: from poss (kmidc67-87.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.87]) by ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA10331 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:37:15 +1100 Message-Id: <199902012337.KAA10331@ecpport2.midcoast.com.au> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:35:15 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Unsubscribe Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 Dear Allan, Could I 'unsubscribe bdnow' for a while please. sincerely Alan Johnstone From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 02:37:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA24803 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA14086; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA13903 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from eco1 ([195.44.5.96]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:26:14 +0000 From: "Colin Shaw" Organization: MidNet To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:27:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Unsubscribe Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Message-ID: <0fdee1426070229BISHOP@cwcom.net> Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 Could someone unsubscribe me please -------------------------------------------------- See http://www.organic.mcmail.com/ THE UK organic gardening web site. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 07:35:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26493 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA29998; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:27:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA29853 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:25:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr1-67-211.intrepid.net [206.102.67.211]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA30876 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:26:49 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:10:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: Please Save! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 to UNSUBSCRIBE from BD NOW!, send 'unsubscribe bdnow' in the BODY of a message to listproc@envirolink.org (no SUBJECT is necessary =========================================================================== If you have any questions, contact the Listmaster, Allan Balliett, at bdnow@igg.com Thank You! -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 07:58:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26690 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:58:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01817; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:50:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01662 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:48:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr1-67-211.intrepid.net [206.102.67.211]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01012 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:49:42 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:50:05 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Harvey Lisle, Anne Wigmore, Raw Food, & Biodynamics Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 At the John Jeavons workshop this weekend in Chambersburg, PA, I was fortunate enough to run into Michael Mahroney of Long Island. For the past 7 years, Michael has been making wheatgrass juice in flats that are 50 percent BD compost. He's a vibrant picture of health, brite-eyed and good natured, as well as intelligent and witty. It really seemed evident that 'the Forces' were with him. Michael draws the principles and how-to of what he does from the books of Anne Wigmore ("The Wheatgrass Book" etc). A surprising piece of information that he passed on to me: biodynamic pioneer and former BDA boardmember Harvey Lisle worked with Anne Wigmore years ago and did all of the quality testing of her books and what-not. (Harvey would work with chromatography and dowsing, among other techniques.) Stranger still for me, I found out yesterday that macrobiotic mainstay at Claymont and former BD Now! member, Jerry Collette, actually was a student of Anne's several decades ago. (Jerry's sister married into the Kushi family, in case you're wondering why a man would move from the camp of 'everything raw' to the camp 'everything cooked' (at Kushi Jouse they even steam APPLES before eating them :-) ) If you've ever met Harvey Lisle, you know what I mean by brite-eyed, good natured, radiant health. (Harvey is over 80.) If you've been working with any aspect of sprouts,mini or micro greens, wheatgrass or rawfoods, I'd like to hear from you on the list. Thanks, -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 08:01:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26708 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:01:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01971; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:53:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01831 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:50:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr1-67-211.intrepid.net [206.102.67.211]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01365 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:52:00 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:52:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: Please: No Formatted Messages / No Attachments!! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 Dear BD Now! Member: BD Now! is circulated to every continent and to an awful lot of countries. Phone service, internet service and the age and condition of equipment vary greatly in this worldwide natural agriculture community. Formatted email was developed for business office intranets, where it "distracts from distraction by distracting." Formatted messages are not supported by all email readers, are 'expensive' to download and will, in fact, cause some email readers to hang (including the one in this office!). Please turn formatting OFF on your YANKEE-style email tool when sending email to BD Now!, or any other Ag list. Attachments are more of the same. Different internet service providers handle attacments differently. I sent a 200k attachment to a person in the mid-west last week; the attachment took me about 2minutes to upload, it took them TWENTY MINUTES to download!! Multiply this discrepency across the 300+ members of BD NOW! and you can see how un-ecological attachments are. Please don't send attachments to BD Now!, send URL's. If you are not in a position to post lengthy information to the WWW, contact me, and, if the information is of interest to the list, I'll make it available through the BD Now! pages. (Any messages under 32k are welcomed on the list.) If you have any questions about this, please contact me at bdnow@igg.com or at (304) 876-2373. Thanks -Allan Balliett moderator, BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 12:18:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02204 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:18:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA15582; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:10:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14207 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:05:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp23.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.123]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA15250 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:04:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001d01be4ece$0810c9a0$774b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle, Anne Wigmore, Raw Food, & Biodynamics Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:03:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 Hi Allan! Are there any pearls of wisdom that you can share with us about the conference you attended? I am trying to remember the connection between the Jeavons (biointensive gardening/farming) and the biodynamic methods...and the differences too. Wasn't there some mention on this awhile back? Could you elaborate on this a bit? Thanks much.... Julie PS - I became very interested in wheatgrass a few years ago, and at that time bought a few books on the subject, including the Ann Wigmore book. There is another little book that's nice... "Wheatgrass Juice, Gift of Nature or The Natural High" by Betsey Russell Manning (mostly about how wheatgrass protects people/animals from radiation). This one aroused my curiosity mostly because the first time I tried it at a juicebar in Madison, I walked around with a wheatgrass high for about an hour...Nothing like the fragrance/taste of summer, powerfully healthy & invigorating, with a friendly little mood-enhancement to boot! (But the juicers that are required to properly process the stuff are really expensive!!) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 17:24:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09676 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05288; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:16:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05081 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:15:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-159.intrepid.net [206.102.66.159]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27030 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:16:41 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:16:55 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: re:Wheat Grass Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 >>If you've been working with any aspect of sprouts,mini or micro greens, >>wheatgrass or rawfoods, I'd like to hear from you on the list. >> >>Thanks, >> >>-Allan Balliett >>igg@igg.com >> >I've been sprouting for about half a year now. Experimenting mostly. I have >read Ann Wigmore's book on sprouting, and of coarse it has a section on >wheatgrass. My most recent tray of wheat seeds were soaked over-night in >water that I stirred just like you would BD500-501, but with rock dust in >the water. Then, the first thing I sprinkle on the seed is some rock dust >before adding moist soil that I collected from my veggie garden this past >fall. > > After harvesting the grass, I place the "mats" in a container with worms >(red wigglers) and sprinkle rock dust between layers. The intention is to >use this after it is completed to recycle for growing more wheatgrass. >Michael Schmidt was kind enough to let me have samples of cow manure from >his BD farm. I added it to my worm culture. > >I have also been sprouting alfalfa, sunflower seeds (great breakfast), >pinto beans, chick peas, and growing barley grass. All are soaked in the >above described water. > >I don't know yet if any of this is of benefit, and am keeping my eyes open >for methods to measure results. > >Can anyone comment on my rock-dust stirring? >If I understand what I read in Secrets of then Soil; chapter discussing >Patrick Flanigan's work on Vortex's effect on particles, I am trying to >make "colloidal" minerals, and therefor more available to me through the >wheatgrass. > > >Murray Henderson - Kitchener, Ontario, Canada > > > > > Murray Henderson - An Independent Representative for Primerica Financial Services See my home on the Web at: http://www.easynet.ca/~mhenderson From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 18:05:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10852 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:05:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11920; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11654 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:56:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03393 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:58:10 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:55:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 Hi igg. Thanks for all of the good advice. I didn't have time to reply last week. You mentioned a cosmic pipe that used a drawing of a printed circuit, a photo of an Aztec crystal skull and a bobby pin. I think SECRETS OF THE SOIL said that too. I'd sure like to know the details of how that is put in the pipe. You said prayer may work just as well as any other subtle energy method. Do you know how prayer can be tested scientifically by us email subscribers? I don't have faith that my prayers would work as well as many people's prayers. Do I have to bolster my faith? Have you seen www.Neil.Slade.net? He talks about research that shows benefits of collective prayer. I was wondering if subscribers might like to ask other subscribers for prayers on a particular concern maybe at a particular time. Art Bell seemed to get very good results with that for bringing rain to needy areas, etc. What I'd like others to help me pray for at 6 pm Feb. 6 or any time is clarity on how to be successful with our organic farming this year. Have you seen any of these sites on ormus elements? http://209.17.143.141/ormus/ORMUS/ormus2.htm, http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/penrose1.html, http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/whatisit.htm They say the ormus elements are responsible for biological growth and nerve functions, that they are superconducting and paramagnetic. One of the sites says how to separate ormus elements from others, but then they have to be protected from sunlight, etc. I thought it might be better to leave them in their source material. Volcanic rock and limestone are supposed to have a lot of ormus. So I'm thinking of stirring the ground rockdust in water like a BD prep, stirring and reversing, and applying it to the soil. Do you know anything about that? The chapter of SECRETS OF THE SOIL on Flanagan's studies said the best shape for stirring is ovoid with a width to length ratio of 1 to the sq. rt. of 2, i.e. 1 to 1.414. That produces the strongest vortex. Does anyone use an ovoid spray tank? Joe and I are thinking of making one of fiberglass. I also tho't it might be fine to just cut a spherical tank in half and add about a foot or so long cylindrical midsection. Joe's looking to find a spherical tank. But I suppose a cylindrical tank might be good enuf. What do you think? We're thinking of using mechanical stirring for the BD preps, etc. The book said other farmers do that. Do you think that works as well as stirring by hand? Joe tho't of hooking several pumps together on the PTO and having a hose from each one going into the tank. At the end of the hose would be a tee and a valve to make the water flow one way, then the other. I don't know how we'd control the valve yet. We assume that this would create a vortex in the tank as quickly as would a mechanical stirring device and that the reversing of the flow to make chaos would be easier. He was thinking of using about 1 and a half inch diameter hose and tees, maybe four of them in all. That'd give quite a bit of cross-sectional area, like a paddle would. Would you or anyone else have experience along these lines? The book also talked about "singing to clay" or something like that. It mentioned a farmer who would sing a note into a bucket or barrel while stirring and reversing water before applying to soil or crops, I think. Do you know if that's helpful? And how the note is determined? You said the sonic bloom type of spraying isn't needed bekuz the stomata of the leaves are open anyway in the mornings [and evenings?]. But the book implied that the high pitch sounds are helpful to the mitochondria of the plant cells where energy is made. It said the mitochondria are tuned to about 25 cycles per second and that bird song of about 5000 cps are a harmonic of that. Also, if birdsong in the mornings and evenings are what open the stomata, a lot of our ground is not very near to trees where birds usually sit, so we tho't we might need to use the high pitch anyway. Or do the stomata stay open then even without the birdsongs? And is there a cheap source of the gibberillin that you know of? Are there plants that have it in concentrated form, or whatever? lloyd kinder" From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 18:06:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10867 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:06:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA12172; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:58:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11655 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:56:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03409 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:58:15 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:58:31 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: re: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 Dear Lloyd - I'm hoping to post a previously unavailable address by Ehrinfried Pfeiffer to this list later today. I think that if you will "listen" to what he has to say, many of the points you have raised in your message today may become more clear. Thanks for your interest in dynamics, by the way. -Allan Balliett moderator, BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 18:26:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11204 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:26:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16042; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:18:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15849 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07618 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:18:49 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001d01be4ece$0810c9a0$774b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:19:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle, Anne Wigmore, Raw Food, & Biodynamics Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 >Hi Allan! > >Are there any pearls of wisdom that you can share with us about the >conference you attended? I am trying to remember the connection between the >Jeavons (biointensive gardening/farming) and the biodynamic methods...and >the differences too. Wasn't there some mention on this awhile back? Could >you elaborate on this a bit? Julie - Alan Chadwick taught biodynamics at Santa Cruz and a few other gardens in the 70's. Although he had worked with Rudolf Steiner as a child, the milieu at Santa Cruz (a Univeristy which contained prominent faculty members who were demonstrably hostile to even the IDEA of non-chemical farming) made it prudent to trim back the tools he would use to invoke fertility there. (He did not use the preps in America, but he did discuss them in private with some of his students.) His immense knowledge of horticulture, coupled with a thorough understanding of composting and cultivation methods, allowed him to create a truly remarkable abundance ("too much zucchini") on previously 'barren' soil. In a short period of time he was able to attract a legion of students. This provided him with the most magickal portion of his gardener's toolkit: an inexhaustible supply of well-educated and highly motivated young workers. John Jeavons was working for the World Bank back then, working to solve world hunger problems. He was drawn to see the 'Chadwick miracle,' and spent a day asking questions of AC. What he came away with was the double-digging method, French market gardening intensive planting and tight, multi-cropping, rotation schemes, and vegan composting methods. As I understand it, John has spent a lot of time doing work on himself with Zen meditation and what not, but it was with the pragmatically materialistic mind of a UN worker that John lifted the practical aspects of the "Chadwick method" and left behind Chadwick's profound spiritual testimony. In this 'objectivism,' which continues to be a standard of 'Grow Biointensive' (as the Jeavon's method is currently called), there is really only room for things that can be counted, weighed or measured. For this reason, only the more pragmatic aspects of biodynamics as it was passed through Alan Chadwick have been used in "Grow Biointensive" (such as equisetum tea). A statistician by training, and a documentarian by temperment, John has spent the better part of the last century honing the data in the 'master charts' contained in his monumentally "best-selling" book "How to Grow More Vegetables." Anyone who is growing a garden and expecting to produce a certain amount of food within a certain time and financial budget will do well to refer to these tables - - they give you everything from expected viability of seed in a given crop to how closely your can plant out for maximum effeciency (of space, water and fertility). John and Cynthia Jeavons have a plan. They are out to save the world. They have a method of actually accomplishing this, it's 'Grow Biointensive.' If they can get more people to actually 'listen' with their rational minds, they really do have a method of horticulture where a relatively unskilled individual can produce way more food than he himself needs to survive and he can also produce the fertility needed to allow the growing of more food in those beds. According to John (and I think we all know that this is true) topsoil is running out in the world: with China entering as a competitor on the world food market, in less than two years the US will most likely find that it can no longer buy as much food from other countries as we need to survive. About then, most everything will hit the wall. Bill Mollison has said that if something is worth doing, it's worth getting 2000 other hands to do also. John Jeavons has been teaching for a long, long time. He's made A LOT of converts during that period. There are a lot of hands out there growing more vegetables with this method. One thing he stresses: if you plan to survive the coming hard-times because you know how to grow your own food, you better start teaching as many people as possible how to grow THEIR own food because, as you've probably already realized, even if you do know how to grow your own food, when other people are hungry, they are probably going to take your harvest. You can find out more about John Jeavons and his non-profit, Ecology Action, at http://www.countrylife.net/ecoaction/index.html John and Cynthia Jeavons have been very generous to me and my recent community outreach projects. By no means do I intend to diminish the value of their work or insights by any remarks I make here. I think that an appropriate response to your question requires for me to say that the biointensive method is well within the parameters of one of the possible approaches to biodynamics. However, the biodynamic system is substantially more systematic, more organized and more complete than the biointensive method. (For starters, I'm thinking of the preps and herb teas here.) The biointensive method would fit in toto in the watchpocket of Bruce Blevin's dress suit of biodynamic/horticultural knowledge. Just the same, I already know that "How to Grow More Vegetables" is in his library (and right now, in the final phases of planning for 1999, I'll be those 'master tables' of JJ's are right on his desk top! :-) Sorry I don't have more time for this Julie, I hope this helps. -Allan Balliett (Hey, do you want to learn how to double dig???) > >PS - I became very interested in wheatgrass a few years ago, and at that >time bought a few books on the subject, including the Ann Wigmore book. >There is another little book that's nice... "Wheatgrass Juice, Gift of >Nature or The Natural High" by Betsey Russell Manning (mostly about how >wheatgrass protects people/animals from radiation). This one aroused my >curiosity mostly because the first time I tried it at a juicebar in Madison, >I walked around with a wheatgrass high for about an hour...Nothing like the >fragrance/taste of summer, powerfully healthy & invigorating, with a >friendly little mood-enhancement to boot! (But the juicers that are required >to properly process the stuff are really expensive!!) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 18:28:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11234 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:28:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16537; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16246 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:20:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA08222 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:21:38 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001d01be4ece$0810c9a0$774b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:22:03 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle, Anne Wigmore, Raw Food, & Biodynamics Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 > >PS - I became very interested in wheatgrass a few years ago, and at that >time bought a few books on the subject, including the Ann Wigmore book. >There is another little book that's nice... "Wheatgrass Juice, Gift of >Nature or The Natural High" by Betsey Russell Manning (mostly about how >wheatgrass protects people/animals from radiation). This one aroused my >curiosity mostly because the first time I tried it at a juicebar in Madison, >I walked around with a wheatgrass high for about an hour...Nothing like the >fragrance/taste of summer, powerfully healthy & invigorating, with a >friendly little mood-enhancement to boot! (But the juicers that are required >to properly process the stuff are really expensive!!) Just thought that I'd point out that there are south american made corona-style wheatgrass juicers that sell for <$50. This is an easy expense to justify because the same 'press' can be used to expell VALERIAN juice!!! Most healthfood stores can order these handcranked wheatgrass juicers. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 06:19:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA20356 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:19:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA06002; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:07:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA05632 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:05:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.163] (pm3mbr2-66-165.intrepid.net [206.102.66.165]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA08065 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:06:37 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:07:02 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Paramagetism and Tree, etc Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 Project Treelite: Measuring The Profound Effect of Trees Charge Envelope Connecting To The Charge Envelope Around Human Glands During Intense Emotion.. Here we place Phil Callahan's design biological capacitance probe (Hemp Fibres dipped in sweat or sea salt mineral ), moisened under an old oak tree on a strong earth magnetic line. (No 60cycle power poles near). We input to via high impedance scope probe to Interactive Visual Brainwave Analayzer (IBVA) wireless telemetry, to Mac computer. We landscape spectrum analyze the change in charge envelope harmonic content over time, as a meditator strongly emotionally coupled to the tree, does a "zero point breath".. continued at: http://www.danwinter.com/projtreelite/TREELITE.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 09:03:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22504 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:03:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA18903; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18751 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:54:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr1-67-194.intrepid.net [206.102.67.194]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28584 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:23 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:50:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: NE SA Working Group vs Terminator Gene Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 TERMINATOR GENE THE NORTHEAST SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE WORKING GROUP P.O. Box 608, Belchertown, MA; Ph: 413-323-4531; Fax: 413-323-9594 PRESS RELEASE Northeast Sustainable Agriculture Working Group (NESAWG) members officially condemned the use of public funds by USDA for the development and patenting of the "terminator technology," at its Annual Meeting on December 12. Members noted the profound global implications of this technology on agriculture, biodiversity, and food security, as well as the national implications of using U.S. tax dollars on the development and licensing of a technology that will solely benefit a private corporation, while causing hardship to small farmers around the world. The terminator technology creates plants whose seeds will not produce new plants the following year. "The "terminator" seed-sterilizing technology threatens to eliminate the age-old right of farmers to save seed from their harvest, jeopardizing the food security of 1.4 billion people - including resource poor farmers in the south - who depend on farm-saved seed," noted Hope Shand of Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI), an organization actively working against this technology. "Both the patent and the technology should be rejected on the basis of public morality," noted NESAWG member Elizabeth Henderson of NOFA-NY. "Farmers everywhere must have the right to save seed and develop locally-adapted strains of a plant variety." "In addition to human rights concerns, there are serious biosafety concerns with this technology," Henderson added. "There is the possibility that the sterility trait of this seed could infect open-pollinated crops growing nearby. Because this technology is largely untested, this is an important concern." In its resolution, NESAWG members demanded that USDA, as patent-holder,permanently refrain from licensing any use of the patent. More information about details of the "terminator technology" is available from the Rural Advancement Foundation International at: www.rafi.org. The Northeast Sustainable Agriculture Working Group (NESAWG) is a broad network of groups in the Northeast United States committed to building more sustainable and just regional food and agriculture systems. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MOFFA is a non-profit, educational organization whose mission is to bring togther the interests of growers, consumers and retailers in Maryland to further the cause of more ecological farming practices and product distribution. Volunteers perform all work within the organization. We use membership dues to publish and distribute this newsletter, to sponsor workshops, field days, and related activities. SUPPORT MOFFA We are working to develop more sustainable agriculture in Maryland through * consumer education * grower education * organic certification * state and federal policies * member networking $30 membership : voting rights quarterly newsletter, technical services. $15 membership: quarterly newsletter Make checks payable to MOFFA and return to MOFFA c/o Jack Gurley, 16813 Yeoho Rd, Sparks, MD 21152. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 09:04:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22512 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA18992; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18760 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr1-67-194.intrepid.net [206.102.67.194]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28594 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:27 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:51:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Transgenic Seed Use on the Rise Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 TRANSGENIC SEEDS According to two articles in the January 1999 Farm Chemicals, planting of transgenic seeds will make another increase in '99. A survey sent to ag dealers in '98 shows that 85% of dealers are expected to sell enhanced seed by 2000, and a 50% increase is expected by 2001. Two of the most common enhancements include Roundup Ready genes, and transgenic Bt. Seeds include corn, cotton, potatoes, soybeans, and others. There are currently 50.5 million acres planted to transgenic crops in the US, amounting to 74% of the worldwide acreage of transgenic seeds. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MOFFA is a non-profit, educational organization whose mission is to bring togther the interests of growers, consumers and retailers in Maryland to further the cause of more ecological farming practices and product distribution. Volunteers perform all work within the organization. We use membership dues to publish and distribute this newsletter, to sponsor workshops, field days, and related activities. SUPPORT MOFFA We are working to develop more sustainable agriculture in Maryland through * consumer education * grower education * organic certification * state and federal policies * member networking $30 membership : voting rights quarterly newsletter, technical services. $15 membership: quarterly newsletter Make checks payable to MOFFA and return to MOFFA c/o Jack Gurley, 16813 Yeoho Rd, Sparks, MD 21152. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 09:04:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22520 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:04:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA19044; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:56:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18770 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:54:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr1-67-194.intrepid.net [206.102.67.194]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28605 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:31 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: OFMA GE Policy Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 GENETICALLY ENGINEERED SEED POLICY >From the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Communication/Telecommunication Committee Co-chairs: Cecilia Bowman, cvof@iquest.net, Eric Kindberg, erorganic@aol.com Website: www.iquest.net/ofma/ December 4, 1998 After due consideration the Board of Directors of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association has determined the following: The Organic Farmers Marketing Association calls for a complete prohibition on the use of Genetically Engineered plants, seeds, microbials, animals and derivatives from GE products in certified organic farm food and fiber production. The Organic Farmers Marketing Association calls for a complete prohibition on the use of Genetically Engineered ingredients, processing aids, enzymes, food additives and derivatives from GE products in certified organic handling operation (processing, packaging or storing) of foods and fibers labeled and sold as "organically produced." Genetically Engineered" means made with techniques that alter the molecular or cell biology of an organism by means that are not possible under natural conditions of processes. Genetic engineering includes recombinant DNA and RNA techniques, cell fusion, micro and macro encapsulation, gene deletion and doubling, introducing a foreign gene, and changing the positions of genes. It shall not include breeding, conjugation, fermentation, hybridization, in-vitro fertilization and tissue culture. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MOFFA is a non-profit, educational organization whose mission is to bring togther the interests of growers, consumers and retailers in Maryland to further the cause of more ecological farming practices and product distribution. Volunteers perform all work within the organization. We use membership dues to publish and distribute this newsletter, to sponsor workshops, field days, and related activities. SUPPORT MOFFA We are working to develop more sustainable agriculture in Maryland through * consumer education * grower education * organic certification * state and federal policies * member networking $30 membership : voting rights quarterly newsletter, technical services. $15 membership: quarterly newsletter Make checks payable to MOFFA and return to MOFFA c/o Jack Gurley, 16813 Yeoho Rd, Sparks, MD 21152. =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 11:40:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26729 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17929; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:30:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.153]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17351 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:27:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.18.82]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:29:24 +0000 Message-ID: <36B876A8.3147@cwcom.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:17:44 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 My wife was enthusiastic about sprouting earlier this year (less so now that winter is upon us) - all the usual seeds, beans etc - but we've not yet tried wheatgrass. Anne Wigmore's book was so helpful that I tried to call up her website(s): a couple of search items referred only to health resorts, but I was unable to raise the Anne Wigmore Institute - kept getting weird error messages including, on one occasion, This Site is Forbidden! What has she done to annoy Bill Gates so ? Is it just my server (Cable & Wireless) or have other subscribers also had problems ? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:03:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27297 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:03:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA22450; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22294 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr4-150-20.intrepid.net [209.190.150.20]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30802 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:54:52 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:54:16 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 From Debbie Ortman: >>I recently learned that Rob Johnston of Johnny's Seeds is considering >>selllng genetically modified seeds. The escape of these seeds into the >>environment could have potentially devastating consequences. I urge you >>to write to him immediately to express your feelings. I am BCCing this >>to most everyone on my list (more than 100 people and list serves) and >>recommend you do the same. I personally intend to boycott their company >>until I hear of a change in policy. The Carolina Farm Stewardship >>Association recently circulated a petition critical of Johnny's policy >>at their recent conference and 106 farmers signed it, including Elliot >>Coleman. You can email Johnny's: >>or fax them: 1-800-437-4299 >>or write to: >> >>Rob Johnston, Jr. >>Johnny's Selected Seeds >>Foss Hill Rd. >>Albion, ME 04910 >> Then David Young said: >Before anyone reacts, please see Johnny's current catalog. Rob only says >that they are maintaining the stance of keeping an open mind in regards to >the issue of genetically-engineered seeds. Nowhere does he state that they >are considering selling the seeds. Please find out the issue from the >source before launching a campaign that could have devastating effects on a >company that has served many sustainable growers well for many years. > >I'm sure that Rob will gladly entertain feedback and personal opinions, >especially when voiced intelligently and not reactionarily. If folks would >have looked personally at the catalog before jumping on the bandwagon, then >perhaps such a strong and unnecessary reaction could have been avoided. To >immediately boycott a very community-oriented company without engaging in >dialogue is close to eco-facism, in my opinion. The issue is actually old >news, and was circulated a couple of months ago anyway. This is the type of >reaction that polarizes people and, to many who work day-to-day in >agriculture, is laughable. > >David Young > > >>David - >> >>Rob Johnston has made his response to the questions about Johnny's policy. He >>remained very open to the possibility that Johnny's will carry genetically >>engineered seed in the future. In fact, in my perception, he was rather >>smug about his stance. (If Rob's response has not been through this list, I >>can post it here.) That's the part that scares me: smug people who don't >>really perceive why many of us are concerned about genetically-engineered >>seeds. Furthermore, Rob had this additional opportunity to assure us that >>Johnny's would NEVER carry GE seed, but he did not take this opportunity to >>make an explicit statement. >> >>For me, the intelligent stance is ZERO TOLERANCE for GENETICALLY-ENGINEERED >>SEEDS. Rob has crossed over that line and chosen to stay on the 'pragmatic' >>side of the fence when asked to reconsider his 'open-mindedness.' >> >>I'm a professional grower myself. I've purchased from Johnny's for over 10 >>years. I've always considered them one of the shining lights in seed supply >>for organic growers. (However, not all of their seed is organic.) As I have >>informed them, as long as there is any possibility of genetically-altered >>seeds being 'accidentally' mixed with my organic seeds on the supply end, I >>cannot purchase from them. I will not buy from them this year either, >>unless they stand back from this 'open minded' view of >>genetically-engineered seeds. >> >>IMHO Better to be strident than sorry. >> >>I wholeheartedly support the boycott and encourage anyone concerned about >>the safety of our food supply to do so. Make a point of not purchasing from >>growers who support Johnny's also: better tell your growers early because >>many will just assume they can rely on people like Johnny's to 'do the >>right thing' when it comes to food purity. Unfortunately, such complacency >>is not practical in this case. >> >> >> >>-Allan Balliett >>Biodynamics NOW! >>bdnow@igg.com And last night I received this unexpected note from Mr. Johnston: >Dear Mr. Balliett, > Someone forwarded me your e-letter to David Young. I have questions >for you. > Firstly, what do you find smug in my response? > Secondly, what seed suppliers pass your muster? > Thirdly, as a condition for purchase, will you insist that your seed >supplier only obtain seeds from sources that do not handle any GE seeds? > I look forward to your reply. >Truly yours, >Rob Johnston, Jr. >-- >Robert L. Johnston, Jr. >Chairman >Johnny's Selected Seeds (http://www.johnnyseeds.com) > Post: RD 1 Box 2580, Albion, Maine 04910 USA > Fax: 1.207.437.2422 (alternate= 1.207.437.2165) > Telephone: 1.207.437.9294 Allan here again: Just prior to the note above, I received information from 'well placed sources inside the seed industry' that Rob Johnston is softpedalling GE because he has no control over his seeds at the source; inevitably, at some point in the near future, many of the varities he carries will ONLY be available to him from GE sources. I think I'm safe in my assumption that I'm not the only eco-warrior on this list. I don't think this is a time to be passive. I think, if nothing else, we need to take strong positive action and make strong endorsements for those companies that refuse to carry GE. At the same time, as organic growers and organic eaters and seekers of higher levels of human development through working with the forces of Nature, we need to let everyone we work with and everyone we source from that company's like Johnny's, who appear to be within the organic movement, actually have no higher vision and are open to distributing products that are potentionally damaging to our land, ourselves, and the natural diversity that makes remediation of man's misadventures practical and affordable. Materialistic people seem to be willing to do ANYTHING for money. In fact, the ultimate ethical justification for any sort of action against mankind, nature, or our common future currently seems to be nothing more than "Did you make a few bucks?" If we speak loudly enough now, before GE gets FIRMLY established, we may be able to convince some of the marginal players, like Johnny's, to not become customers of the muliti-national's Frankenseed programs because it will not be profitable for them in the short-run. I'm asking you to speak up, here on the list, or by writing to Rob Johnston or by helping BD Now! assemble the definitive 'natural' seed source list for posting at www.igg.com/bdnow. (If companies do not have a public position on GE, we need to ask them what their policy is.) Thanks -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:15:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27669 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:15:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24597; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:06:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24094 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr4-150-20.intrepid.net [209.190.150.20]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA32684 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:04:15 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:04:36 -0500 To: BDNOW@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id MAA24101 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 Here's an un-updated list from Crissy Bowman of OFMA of potentially Organic open-pollinated seed . We can use it as a starting point. (yes, this list needs proof-reading, some culling, and some preening...anyone up for that??) ABUNDANT LIFE. Membership on a sliding scale rate of $5 to $15 per year. Abundant Life Seed Foundation, P.O. Box 772, Port Townsend, Washington 98368. AGE-OLD GARDEN SUPPLY. Natural gardening Products for your organic garden. PO. Box 1556, Boulder, Colorado 80306. AMES’ ORCHARD & NURSERY. R 5, Box 194, Fayetteville, Arkansas 72701. ARBICO. Sustainable Environmental Alternatives for Organic Growers. PO. Box 4247 CRB. Tucson, Arizona 85738-1247. 602-825-9785 or 800-827-2847. In Canada: MANBICO. Box 22. Group 15 RRIC, Winnipeg. Manitoba, Canada R3C 2E4. 204 339-9488, 800-665-2494. BEAR CREEK NURSERY. PO. Box 411, Bear Creek Road. Northport, Washington 991S7. BOZEMAN BIO-TECH. 1612 Gold Avenue, PO. Box 3146. Bozeman. Montana 59772. Products for insect protection. W. ATLEE BURPEE CO. 300 Park Ave., Warminster, Pennsylvania 18991. Phone 215-674-4915. 80s888-1447. BUTTERBROOKE FARMS coo Tom Butterworth. 78 Barry Road, Oxford. Connecticut 06483. SASE required for information. CORNS. Contact Carl L and Karen D Barnes, Route 1, Box 32. Turpin, Oklahoma 13950. $1.00 for price list and information letter. DOWN ON THE FARM SEED. P.O. Box 184. Hirarn. Ohio 44234 ECO SOURCE. PO. B-ox I656, Sebastopol, California 9S473. FEDCO SEEDS. Unued seeds, orgasmic. 52 Mayflower Hil Drive. Waterville, Maine 04901. HENRY FIELD’S-SEED & NURSERY CO. s l 5 North Burnett. Shenandoah, Iowa 51602. I.P.M. LABORATORIES, INC. P.O. Box 300, Locke, NY 13092-0300. 315-497-3129, Biological Pest Management INDIANA BOTANIC GARDENS. RO. Box 5, Hammond Indiana 46325. 219-947- 4040. THE INVISIBLE GARDENERS. 29169 Heathercliff Road, #216-408. Malibu, California 90265-4146. 213-457-6658. JACKSON & PERKINS. PO Box 1028. Medford. Oregon 97501. 8062924769. 1. W. JUNG QUALITY SEED COMPANY. 335 South High Street, Randolph, Wisconsin S3957. AM LEONARD, INC. PO. Box 816, Pique Ohio 45356-0816. Catalog $1.00. LIBERTY SEED COMPANY. PO. Box 806, New Philadelphia, Ohio 44663. 800-541-6022. LYING OFF THE LAND. P.O. Box 2131, Melbourne, Florida 3290Z-2131. A Subtropic Newsletter with Seed Exchange. LIVING TREE CENTER. P.O. Box 10082, Berkeley, California 94709 Historic apple. and pear trees, and other fruit trees and plants. 510-420-1440. MARKET FARM IMPLEMENT. Specializing in Vegetable Crop Machinery. RD 2, Box 206, Friedens, Pennsylvania 15541. McCLURE & ZIMMERMAN. Quality Flowerbulb Brokers. 108 West Winnebago, P.O. Box 368. Friesland, Wisconsin :53935. 414-326-4220. , . -, . .. . . at - . MILLER NURSERIES. Planting guide & catalog free. West Lake Road, Canandaigua New York 14424. NATIVE AMERICAN SEED. 3400 Long Prairie Road. Flower Mound; Texas 75028. 214-539-0534. NATIVE SEEDS/SEARCH. 2509 North Campbell Avenue #325. Tucson. Arizona PLANT FINDERS OF AMERICA. 532 Beau--Mont Ct. Fort Wright, Kentucky 41011. Free infomration Plants of the Southwest 18]2 Second 9t Santa Pe, New Mexico 87S01. Cab P°WELL G+RDENS /Ensas Cit~Z-s got cal Cie • Has many flo ver seed SouneeS R I 816 566 2213ngsville. Missourj 64061 PRAtRI} MOON NURSERY. Price S2.00. t07 43S2 1362163- Winona~ .MI~n RINGER- 99S9 Valley View Road, Eden Prurie MinneSotaNN346358~.goo-654-1o47. C SPBERRY NURSERy & RESouRcE OG. 19060 Manning Trail N. Mad 6°ln2s43 Cr°iv7 Minnesota 55047 972I ROCKRSH GAP HEALTH PRODUCTS. P.O Box 348. Ivy, Virginia 2294S. Hard-to-find ealth & beauty products. 800-768-7587. RONNIGERiS SEED POTATOES. Star Route. Moyie Spnngs, Idaho 83845. Prepsud or ders must be received no later than May I. Write catalog, S2.00 refundable. RENCE NURSERIES. Northern Cli yate Fruit and Nul TreeS RD 2 Po SAVE OUR ECO-SYSTEItfS (SOS). 407 Blair Boulevard. Eugene, Oregon 97402. EzSogy products and gifts. SEED S~VERS }XCI[~NGE Route 3, Box 239 Decorab~k~wa421ol.Free-~nation. SEIDS B>, Idabo City Stage.’ Boi#. Idaho 706* alog S3.00. - ~- j _ . . . . SEEDS OF C+GE 1364 Rufina¢Circle #5 Sof 438-8o8o ev MeXicO - 87504 Ph. S c T 1t 2( V. de Hc pk Ro; 800 WC Sou 474 SHEPHERD’S GARDEN SEEDS. 30 Iren Street, Torrington. Connecticut 0679( 203482-3638. SINDELAR SEEDS. Route 1. Box 109-C Algonaf Iowa 50SI I or their distributors: Bin Soils, R 3, Box 197A, Ogden lowa 50212 or Su per Gro of lowa, P.O. Box l26. Aplington. low 50604. D SONOMA ANTIOUE APPLE NURSER 439S Westside Road, Healdsburg, Cslifomi. asaR ,_ . ._. . SOURCEPOINT ORGANIC SEEDS. 409’ M Road, Paonia, Colorado 81428. CataloE S2.50. ^ 0 SOUTHERN EXPOSURE SEED EX CHANGE. P.O. Box l58. North Garden. Vir ginia 22959. Catalog S3.00. STOKES SEEDS, INC. Box 548, Buffalo New York 14240. Phone 41S6884300. SUNSHINE ORGANIC GARDENS RE SOURCE CENTERZ P.O. Box 5161, Wood land Park, Co!orado 80866. SYNERGY SEEDS. P.O. Box 323, Orleans Califomia 95556. THOMPSON & MORGAN. P.O. Box 1308 lackson. New Jersey 08527. Phon. 201 -363-2225. VERMONT BEAN SEED COMPANY. Garden Lane, Fair HavelL Vennont 05743. WAYSIDE GARDENS. I Garden Lane Hodges. Souffi Carolina 29695-0001. The Complete Garden Catalog. WILDSEED FARMS, INC. 1101 Campo Rosa Road, P.O. Box 308. Eagle Lalu Texas 77434 806848-0078. WORM’S WAY GARDEN SUPPLY. 3151 South Highway 446. Bloomington, Indiana 4740I-9111. Seymour’ 8 Selected Seeds Dept 41, PO Box 1346 Sussex, VA 23884-0346 Vermont Bean Seed co. 71 Garden Ln; Fair Haven, VT 05743 Park Seed co. Cokesbury Rd. PO Box 46 Greenwood, SC 29648-0046 (800)845-3369 Burpee Seed Company PO Box 5114 Warminster, PA 18974-4818 (800)888-1447 Abundant Life Seed Foundation PO Box 772 Port Townsend, WA- 98368 (206)385-5660 De Giorvi Seed co 6011 N St. Omaha, NE 68117 (402)731-3901 Garden City Seeds 1324 Red Crow Rd. Victor, MT 59875 (406)961-4837 Nichols Garden Nursery 1190 N. Pacific Highway Albany, OR 97321 (503)-928-9280 Ronniger’s Seed Potatoes Star Route 80 Moyie Springs, ID 83845 Shepard’s Garden Seeds 30 Irene St. Torrinqton, CT 06793 (408)335-6910 Tomato Growers,Supply PO Box 2237 (813)7681119 Worm’s Way 3151 S. Highway 446 Bloomington, IS 47401 (800)274-9676 Brittingham Plant Farms Dept OG25 - PO Box 2538 n-37 Salisbury, MD 21802 t (410)749-5153 1 - Totally Tomatoes Dept 22, PO Box 1626 Augusta, GA 30903 R.H. Shunway Seedsman PO Box 1-NC Graniteville SC 29829 (803)663-977I Peaceable Kingdom School PO Box 2209 Grass Valley, CA 95945 (916)272-47-69 Bountiful Gardens 18001 Shafer Ranch Rd Willits, CA 95490 (707)459-6410 The Cooks Garden PO Box 53528 Londonderry, VT 05148 (802)824-3400 Filaree Productions RR 2 Box 162 Okanogan, WA 98840 (509)422-6940 Johnny’s Selected Seeds 310 Foss Hill Rd - DeDt 202 Albion, ME 04910-973l (207)437-4301 Pinetree Garden Seeds PO Box 300 Route 100 New Gloucester, ME 04260 (207)926-3400 Seeds of Change PO Box 15700 Santa Fe, NM 87506 (505)983-8956 Stokes Seeds Inc Box 548 Buffalo, NY 14240 (905)688-4300 Gardener’s Supply Companv Dept COG15 - l-28 Intervale Rd Burlington, VT 05401-2850 (802)863-1700 Peaceful Valley Farm Supply PO Box 2209 BOG Grass Vallev, CA 95945 (916)272-47B9 J.W. Jung Seed co. r;’ : Box A3645 Randolph, WI 53957 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:18:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27771 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:18:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25162; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:08:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24673 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:06:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr4-150-20.intrepid.net [209.190.150.20]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00600 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:07:55 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36B876A8.3147@cwcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:07:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle etc. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 >My wife was enthusiastic about sprouting earlier this year (less so >now that winter is upon us) - all the usual seeds, beans etc - but we've >not yet tried wheatgrass. Anne Wigmore's book was so helpful that I >tried to call up her website(s): a couple of search items referred only >to health resorts, but I was unable to raise the Anne Wigmore Institute >- kept getting weird error messages including, on one occasion, This >Site is Forbidden! What has she done to annoy Bill Gates so ? Is it >just my server (Cable & Wireless) or have other subscribers also had >problems ? Tony N-S. Can you share some URL's with us, Tony? One thing that has already come to fore in this recent look into the 'sprouting scene': many people lack the knowledge, energy, and conficence to sow and reap what themselves, even if it's just a 7 day season on a windowsill flat. For that reason, yes, there are a lot of 'wheat grass juice with rejuvelac chaser' health clubs all over the world (but particularly in the warmer climates.) -Allan Balliett =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:27:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28002 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:27:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA26879; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:18:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA26146 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:14:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA23006 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:18:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:18:38 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 Dear Allan, RE: your letter and replies from Rob Johnston. I also wrote an email letter to Johnny's and got a reply that he will be replying to me soon. He never did. Michael From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:35:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28248 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:35:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28208; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27900 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:25:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp233.cy-net.net [208.21.195.42]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11031 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:39:50 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F67.D792CAE0@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:02 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F67.D792CAE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Johnny's GE Seeds Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there a listing of 'acceptable' seed sources? I currently buy from = Pinetree Garden and Fedco, both fairly Northern companies. Would like to = find companies more within my climate (tx). SSE is great but buying a = garden full of seed one packet at a time from a member here and a mem = there is expensive and time consuming. What is SSE's take on the recent information we've been handed? I = understand that Mars candy company owned a big chunk of Seeds Of Change = and recently bought the company totally. What changes do you expect from = that? Is this true? thanks martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgIRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAFgAAAFJFOiBKb2hubnkncyBHRSBTZWVkcwDBBgEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgAD AAsAGQABAAMAAwEBIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwALABQAKgADACcBAQmAAQAhAAAANjdGRkYwOTQ1MkJC RDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEA+QYBA5AGAHwFAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAA AAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AADBfSGaT74BHgBwAAEAAAAWAAAAUkU6IEpv aG5ueSdzIEdFIFNlZWRzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb5PmiF9lPD/aLtSEdKxEQDA8CloIQAAHgAe DAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAABmbHlsb0B0eGN5YmVyLmNvbQAAAAMABhC7GR3m AwAHEMoBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJU1RIRVJFQUxJU1RJTkdPRkFDQ0VQVEFCTEVTRUVEU09VUkNF Uz9JQ1VSUkVOVExZQlVZRlJPTVBJTkVUUkVFR0FSREVOQU5ERkVEQ08sQk9USEZBSVJMWU5PUlRI RVJOQ09NAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAYwIAAF8CAAD5AgAATFpGdc+GLMR3AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOCaArA c2V0MCAHE00CgH0KgAjIIDsJbzLMNTUCgAqBdWMAUAsDBmMAQQtgbmcxMDNSMwxgbG4CIGULpiAS SQQgdGgEkGUgYRQgbAQAdAuAZyBvyGYgJwDQY2UFMAGg8GxlJyAPsAmAF2AIYZEW0HM/IBUwIGMI cIMJcAIwbHkgYnUZADkDUiBQC4APwAnRIEfXCxEJ8BXAbhegRgmABaC6LBkQbxVwGVALcHIY8d5O CREVgQOgBaBtCrADANEHkC4gVwhgbBegFfDyaxWwdG8ZUAuAF6Act/4gBGAVoQPwFXALgB8gGQBW YxXwAMB0FbAoDNApox1ABgBTRSAEACAJwbcgYBkRIcJ5FjIV0GcaVL5mFFADIBZxF3MUgSAKsP5j HeAFQCGxFdAWIAeAGVTvFdAHgAbQBJAgFYQawSWTYxVlIVFleHAJ8ACQdk8mVCTzBaAAgHVtFjEu ewqiCoBXD4AFQCFRIREn3RVRYR3hAiAVYiAJcBbQqwIwIUBuAhByIFFpKwH+dxdAKBEl4BqBD4Aa wAmA+xgwGGB1LXEPoAGQKFIp4n5ND5EYcBqxIAEcwxkAb+Z3FJAmkmJpFlAPcC3wXmsWYgZgCYAE IE8WgEM9LVFnJlQrdBjyCGBnaL8FQCsyL6YeEAGQI0B5HUGvKeIPcTIxBCBkHiB5CGD9J5NjBUAZ Yy6iLbEVUiFR+xnwClA/KXQuoTEQD0Apg3sAwBxBYSl0ObgLMBXwM+42AUATgAFAcANgIHA2gAsp dBBxADyAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzCg6RiHmU++AUAACDCg6RiHmU++AQsA AIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUA AAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAA AAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAAAwANNP03AAC5Jw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:37:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28284 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:37:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28515; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:28:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28065 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp233.cy-net.net [208.21.195.42]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11187 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:40:48 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F67.F9FBB100@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:26:00 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F67.F9FBB100@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OOPS, answered my question in the next download, THANKS! [Martha Wells] ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgARAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAJQAAAFJFOiBSZWxpYWJsZSBTZWVkIGFuZCBTdXBwbHkgU291cmNlcwC2 DAEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgADAAsAGQA7AAMAPQEBIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwALABkAHAADAB4BAQmAAQAh AAAANkJGRkYwOTQ1MkJCRDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEABAcBA5AGANwDAAAhAAAACwACAAEA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AABw90OaT74BHgBw AAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFJlbGlhYmxlIFNlZWQgYW5kIFN1cHBseSBTb3VyY2VzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAG+T5pD7pTw/2y7UhHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAS AAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQl8WFcgMABxA6AAAAHgAIEAEAAAA7AAAAT09QUyxB TlNXRVJFRE1ZUVVFU1RJT05JTlRIRU5FWFRET1dOTE9BRCxUSEFOS1NNQVJUSEFXRUxMUwAAAgEJ EAEAAADfAAAA2wAAABwBAABMWkZ1Gw+x43cACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBzZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO 9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8yNWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzMykMYGxuAiBlC6YgT6BP UFMsIABxdwSQQQmAIG15IHEKUHMUdGkCICALgCB0aBRlIBYgeAVAZG93Em4JAGFkFxBUSEHwTktT IQqiCoQKgQwxGCBbTQrAGLBhIFfgZWxsc10DMBUQChFNAUBpAUARQG90BZB0cRCEMTYgCuMKgBIB AAEesAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwIFNmMZpPvgFAAAgwIFNmMZpPvgELAACA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAA AAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAA AwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2 hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4A Q4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAA AAMADTT9NwAAw6M= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:45:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28451 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:45:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29800; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:35:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29306 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:33:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp233.cy-net.net [208.21.195.42]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA12327 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:48:18 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F69.05D8B080@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:30 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F69.05D8B080@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: Garden Supply online Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.gardeners.com/actionupdates.html Gardeners Supply has a fairly informative page up on terminator technology and other bioengineering seed at the url above. Even though it's a catalog supply, overall they put out a lot of good information onsite. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih4RAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAFQAAAEdhcmRlbiBTdXBwbHkgb25saW5lAKMHAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcCAAMA CwAhAB0AAwAnAQEggAMADgAAAM8HAgADAAsAHwAyAAMAOgEBCYABACEAAAA3MkZGRjA5NDUyQkJE MjExQjExMTAwQzBGMDI5NjgyMQD1BgEDkAYAoAQAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAA AAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwEfLT5tPvgEeAHAAAQAAABUAAABHYXJkZW4g U3VwcGx5IG9ubGluZQAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvk+bT8uU8P9zu1IR0rERAMDwKWghAAAeAB4M AQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEgAAAGZseWxvQHR4Y3liZXIuY29tAAAAAwAGECriuWgD AAcQ3QAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhUVFA6Ly9XV1dHQVJERU5FUlNDT00vQUNUSU9OVVBEQVRFU0hU TUxHQVJERU5FUlNTVVBQTFlIQVNBRkFJUkxZSU5GT1JNQVRJVkVQQUdFVVBPTlRFUk1JTkFUT1JU RUNITk8AAAAAAgEJEAEAAACJAQAAhQEAAO0BAABMWkZ1UNYqtXcACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBz ZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8yNWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzMycM YAlQC7UgaAJAcDrILy93FwAuZwsRCfBJBJBzLgWgbS8A0HSCaQIgdXBkYXQHkFouFpBtCVAV4G4C IGX3CqIKhBn2RxdWBgAYgAtQinkWgGEEIGEgZgtwbnIbsQuAAhByAMAYQHa0ZSAKsGcdUBiAIAIg /iAYwBzwC4AYsAWxGMAPcFsZcAkAZxvAAHBkHeB0smgEkCBiGFAJ8GcLgPcJ4AUQFXAgD7AJgBwQ BUC/H9EdsBxwHBAG4B1ALhm6lkUdQB4BaAhgZ2gcoPR0JxwCYxiwB0AfQCEA7RuDLB3gHUByB0AD IB/R+RvAcHUFQAhgBUAcIAkA4SZRZiBnbwRwHKgd8f8CIACQGMAiZQDAACAPgBm1XxUQAUARQB/A BZB0EIQxFjYZtBIBACvAAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMECQWxWbT74BQAAI MECQWxWbT74BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGF AAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAAB AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAJuQ= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:52:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28622 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:52:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01334; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:43:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00898 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:40:46 -0500 (EST) From: cvinson@mindspring.com Received: from hcv (user-38lcp0d.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.100.13]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA01127 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:41:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: <001801be4f9c$752f9e20$4ae145cf@hcv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 Some additions to list. These are companies/organizations I buy from that have stated policies re organic and untreated seed: 1. Sand Hill Preservation Center 1878 230th Street Calamus, Iowa 52729 2. Fox Hollow Seed Company, (Pennsylvania) 3. Heirloom Seed Company, Elizabeth, PA 4. Garden State Heirloom Seed Society 5. Bountiful Gardens (Calif.) 6. Seeds of Texas (College Station, Texas) 7. Redwood City (California) There are lots more. Will send addresses if someone is going to keep a list. Catharine/Atlanta -------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 13:18:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29213 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:18:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04982; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:05:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04479 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.24]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:11:38 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:03:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: OFMA GE Policy Message-ID: <4AAEBA60B9A6B5998525670D00631EF8.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 <> trying to see if anyone's awake out here eh, Allan? What still no crushing mob to sign onto the Tori Amos list? Happy Candlemas/Ground Hog/St.Brigid day (yesterday)!! JS From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 13:23:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29390 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:23:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA06739; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:14:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06104 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.217] (pm3mbr1-67-217.intrepid.net [206.102.67.217]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13165 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:32 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:01:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 >Dear Allan, > > RE: your letter and replies from Rob Johnston. > > I also wrote an email letter to Johnny's and got a reply that he will be >replying to me soon. He never did. Michael Then I guess I should be grateful for what I received, shouldn't I? :-) -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 13:25:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29426 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07225; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:16:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06130 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:11:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.217] (pm3mbr1-67-217.intrepid.net [206.102.67.217]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13172 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:35 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE4F67.D792CAE0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:10:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 >Is there a listing of 'acceptable' seed sources? I currently buy from >Pinetree Garden and Fedco, both fairly Northern companies. Would like to >find companies more within my climate (tx). SSE is great but buying a >garden full of seed one packet at a time from a member here and a mem >there is expensive and time consuming. FEDCO, I understand, will remain a 'safe' seedsource. I do not know about Pinetree, but it is often recommended. SSE, well, here's where 'drifting,' etc becomes a great concern, IMHO. >What is SSE's take on the recent information we've been handed? I >understand that Mars candy company owned a big chunk of Seeds Of Change >and recently bought the company totally. What changes do you expect from >that? Is this true? >thanks >martha Martha - Steven Badger, president of Seeds of Change (SoC), is a member of the family that owns the Mars candy company. SoC hasn't been making a lot of money recently, as you might imagine, but both their goals and the expense of their outreach programs have remained high. For this reason, the principals at SoC found the 'take over' by M&M to be just another method of meeting their goals. Their goals, however, are not monetary, their goals revolve around promoting biodiversity why making small scale organic growing a practical endeavor. Their recent entrance into the organic food market is one way they hope to more effectively achieve their goals. Apparently NOONE IS marketing products with as high of content of small farm produced organic ingredients as theirs (everything is certified except the salt and the water and they are working on finding certified sources for both of these.) Founding members Howard Shapiro and Al Kapuler still 'run' SoC. As far as I know, no candy salespeople are making decisions at SoC. I still trust SoC, but my opinion may be biased: they just donated a 50lb bag of Austrian Winter Peas to my gardening project. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 13:31:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29506 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:31:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07716; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:19:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06140 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.217] (pm3mbr1-67-217.intrepid.net [206.102.67.217]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13193 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:39 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001801be4f9c$752f9e20$4ae145cf@hcv> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:29 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 101 For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. -Allan igg@igg.com >Some additions to list. These are companies/organizations I buy from that >have stated policies re organic and untreated seed: > >1. Sand Hill Preservation Center > 1878 230th Street > Calamus, Iowa 52729 >2. Fox Hollow Seed Company, (Pennsylvania) >3. Heirloom Seed Company, Elizabeth, PA >4. Garden State Heirloom Seed Society >5. Bountiful Gardens (Calif.) >6. Seeds of Texas (College Station, Texas) >7. Redwood City (California) > >There are lots more. Will send addresses if someone is going to keep a list. > >Catharine/Atlanta >-------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 14:24:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00674 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:24:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA18059; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:14:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17417 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:11:54 -0500 (EST) From: cvinson@mindspring.com Received: from hcv (user-38lc8k6.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.34.134]) by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA19893 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:13:12 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:13:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4fa9$3e047760$862256d1@hcv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 Allan wrote: For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. ----------- Will send addresses in next couple of days. One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that very, very few seed companies (or organizations composed of seed savers) grow all its own seed. Even SSE is dependent on its members' word that the seed they list as having available through SSE is grown without pesticides, herbicides, chemical treatments, etc. Making a quick scan of the list of companies in the list that was posted I know of at least one company that does grow its own seed....and literally poisons the ground in which its grown IMHO. This company also advocates *heavy* use of herbicides to prepare the soil to receive its seeds! This is irresponsible stewardship in my mind and I will not buy seed from them. Yet, this same company says it has a policy again GE seed. Does that make the company "kosher"? Not in my opinion. What I am trying to say is that the issues are interwoven and complex. I am disappointed to see that Johnny's *appears* to be leaving the door open to carrying GE products in the future, but at the same time, I believe Johnny's is being straightforward in its response. And the company raises a good point that the "policing" of who is selling GE versus who isn't selling GE products is nigh onto impossible. Catharine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 15:04:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02223 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:04:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25445; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25125 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:54:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr1-67-219.intrepid.net [206.102.67.219]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00123 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:56:13 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001be4fa9$3e047760$862256d1@hcv> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:56:21 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 >Allan wrote: > >For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. > >I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC >seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. > >----------- >Will send addresses in next couple of days. > >One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that very, very few >seed companies (or organizations composed of seed savers) grow all its own >seed. Even SSE is dependent on its members' word that the seed they list as >having available through SSE is grown without pesticides, herbicides, >chemical treatments, etc. Making a quick scan of the list of companies in >the list that was posted I know of at least one company that does grow its >own seed....and literally poisons the ground in which its grown IMHO. This >company also advocates *heavy* use of herbicides to prepare the soil to >receive its seeds! This is irresponsible stewardship in my mind and I will >not buy seed from them. Yet, this same company says it has a policy again GE >seed. Does that make the company "kosher"? Not in my opinion. > >What I am trying to say is that the issues are interwoven and complex. I am >disappointed to see that Johnny's *appears* to be leaving the door open to >carrying GE products in the future, but at the same time, I believe Johnny's >is being straightforward in its response. And the company raises a good >point that the "policing" of who is selling GE versus who isn't selling GE >products is nigh onto impossible. > >Catharine Dear Catharine - Pardon my bluntness: there is no merit in being straightforward about supporting GE. It doesn't matter one whit who else is selling GE seeds when we discuss Johnny's support of gene tech. What's important is that we've identified this Trojan Horse; we now need to mark it with a big black flag or something and continue to search out these other weak spots in seed sourcing. Why so coy about the seed company that "and literally poisons the ground"? The purpose of the prelim list is for everyone to report their knowledge and experience with the names on the list. Johnny's was on that list until I took them off (they go on another list.) Please tell us who is using inappropriate techniques to produce seed. The Johnny's thing is v. scarey. Everywhere I look behind the scenes in Sustainable Ag, I see big envelopes of Johnny's seeds. I would hope that Rob Johnston would just back off from GE. Since it looks like he won't (or can't!) we need to make certain that all growers and organic food customers know that the company has expressed an openess for GE. (Better to do this now than to wait until they DO start selling GE seed. I mean, without being informed by someone who knows better, how would most growers every know that Johnny's was carrying GE seeds? Because they read the little icons? As one who spent most the last 10 years thinking that Johnny's is a fully-Organic seedsupplier, I can't rely on everyone to educate themselves. Everyone wants to trust companies like Johnny's. -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 15:18:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02657 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:18:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27541; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27241 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp243.cy-net.net [208.21.195.52]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA00976 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:22:08 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:07:13 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:07:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd really like the company listed in College Station Texas, practically in my back yard! And, I think Catherine implied that at least Johnny's, by being up front, has given us the choice of whether to buy from them or not. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0UAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAJQAAAFJFOiBSZWxpYWJsZSBTZWVkIGFuZCBTdXBwbHkgU291cmNlcwC2 DAEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgADAA4ABwAMAAMA/wABIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwAOAAIABgADAPQAAQmAAQAh AAAAQ0ZGRkYwOTQ1MkJCRDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEAFQcBA5AGAHgEAAAhAAAACwACAAEA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AABYHsmwT74BHgBw AAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFJlbGlhYmxlIFNlZWQgYW5kIFN1cHBseSBTb3VyY2VzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAG+T7DJHpTw/9C7UhHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAS AAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQHjntYgMABxC5AAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASURSRUFM TFlMSUtFVEhFQ09NUEFOWUxJU1RFRElOQ09MTEVHRVNUQVRJT05URVhBUyxQUkFDVElDQUxMWUlO TVlCQUNLWUFSREFORCxJVEhJTktDQVRIRVJJTkVJTVBMSUVEVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAE0BAABJAQAA iwEAAExaRnXXgebmdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxNNAoB9CoAIyCA7CW8yzDU1AoAK gXVjAFALAwZjAEELYG5nMTAz0jMMYGxuAiBlC6cKsWEKgEknZCAJcAdAbAB5IGxpa2UgdFZoFnAF oG0KsG4WInNqdAmAIAuAIAhQFgBlSmcWcFMBkHRpAiAgAFRleGFzLCBwtnIA0BigYxXzF8FtFiCi YgDQayB5CxEhFTToQW5kGUBJFoELgBqw/kMYkBagBRAUkBewFvAWQPcXkRaQGJAgHZEYIBkgBUBQ Sm9obhcgJxkxYgUaYWULgGcgdXAgHwNRAjAZQA+ABCBnaXbPCfAfcAQgFpNobxmwFnBwb2Ygdxag HHIWgG/9GnB1FiADUhaCIvAFsRRw/HQuCuMKhAqAAMAAIA+ACxU0EHEAJaAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMA ERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwAOYPE7BPvgFAAAgwAOYPE7BPvgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4 LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAztU= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 15:47:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03403 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:47:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02365; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02089 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:34:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.18] (client-151-196-116-18.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.18]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08034 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:35:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902032035.PAA08034@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 15:13:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 I, too, have profound misgivings about GE seeds and all the rest. Many years ago I met a sparkling-eyed elder of the Huichol people in the Sierra Madre Mountains of west Mexico. Don Jose Matsuwa -- then 106 years old -- told me that he had used a philosophical key to keep himself in balance throughout his many long years of hard work in hot fields growing corn and then at night around the village fire as the people's respected ceremonialist and healer (with his wife Dona Josefa). Don Jose's key: "Watch your intention, then pay attention." So one must ask, what do we know of the intentions -- spoken and unspoken -- of the transnational corporations steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, and such? That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. It is murky beyond comfort. Don Jose said said the second part of the key was to "pay attention." See what the results are. On that basis you can make a sound evaluation of your materials and practices. And on that basis, I'd like another 25 years minimum to pay careful attention to the genetic (Uranian-Aquarian) impulse. I wholeheartedly recommend this relatively brief era of consideration to all GE scientists, businesspeople, farmers, and consumers -- and also specifically to Johnny's Seeds. We are part of the Sacred Hoop of Life, and in a full-life relationship with all parts of it. This decade -- over and over -- respected spiritual elders of this Turtle Island continent have warned that if we continue to think and act as if we are Masters and Dominators of the natural world, our relationship with the Earth will fail. So it is. In the way of the Huichol -- and many other Native nations -- the careful trial of such new cultural and agricultural elements -- would run for Seven Generations. In this way the whole of the Sacred Hoop is respected and made strong. Megwiich, Steven M. P.S. If someone has time and energy and wants to forward this Down East to Johnny's, you're welcome to do it. Much obliged. I gotta go. "You never change anything by fighting the existing. To change something, build a new model and make the existing obsolete." - Buckminster Fuller: From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 16:07:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04111 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:07:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05890; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05427 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-11.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.12]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id MAA06957 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:58:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902032058.MAA06957@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:53:32 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: BD SEEDS RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources In-Reply-To: <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 To the List: For practical purposes the backyard BD grower can skirt the GE issue entirely, as Allan suggested, by patronizing BD seed sources. Aurora Farm, Turtle Tree Seeds, Sharon Carson, and the soon-to-be operating [I hope] BD seed exchange, cutely named the Sowing Circle and [I hope again] enjoying some support from the BDA. For commercial growers and CSA growers, it may be, however, that the above sources will not be able to supply the quantities needed. Again: Turtle Tree Seeds Copake Village Copake, NY 12516 Aurora Biodynamic Farm 3492 Phillips Road Creston, B C V0B 1G2 aurora@kootenay.com www.kootenay.com/~aurora (250) 428-4404 Sharon Carson RT 2 Box 277 Delmar DE 19940 (302) 846-2571 BD Sowing Circle Amy Bohn 433 Williams Creek Road Oakville, WA 98568 (360) 273-8702 amybohn@olywa.net Woody From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 16:19:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04489 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:19:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA07776; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from fep7.mail.ozemail.net (fep7-old.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.99]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07349 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:08:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (slmlb32p30.ozemail.com.au [203.108.109.30]) by fep7.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA02990 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:10:12 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <008601be4fb9$9f450fc0$1e6d6ccb@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "Gwenda Robb" To: Subject: Re: Allan Chadwick Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:10:25 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 I have a delightful book - Enchanted garden-Alan Chadwick's organic method of gardening, by Tom Cuthbertson. Published in America as Alan Chadwick's Enchanted garden.1978 The charming and unusual content is presented in a story format as from the perspective of a rabbit (the aussie farmers will love that!) out of print but well worth chasing up. Warm regards Gwenda Hi Allan! > >Are there any pearls of wisdom that you can share with us about the >conference you attended? I am trying to remember the connection between the >Jeavons (biointensive gardening/farming) and the biodynamic methods...and >the differences too. Wasn't there some mention on this awhile back? Could >you elaborate on this a bit? > >Julie - Alan Chadwick taught biodynamics at Santa Cruz and a few other gardens in the 70's. Although he had worked with Rudolf Steiner as a child, the milieu at Santa Cruz (a Univeristy which contained prominent faculty members who were demonstrably hostile to even the IDEA of non-chemical farming) made it prudent to trim back the tools he would use to invoke fertility there. (He did not use the preps in America, but he did discuss them in private with some of his students.) His immense knowledge of horticulture, coupled with a thorough understanding of composting and cultivation methods, allowed him to create a truly remarkable abundance From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 17:56:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA07080 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:56:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA25097; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:46:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24536 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:42:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.234] (pm3mbr1-67-234.intrepid.net [206.102.67.234]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01647 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:44:03 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:40:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 >I'd really like the company listed in College Station Texas, practically >in my back yard! >And, I think Catherine implied that at least Johnny's, by being up front, >has given us the choice of whether to buy from them or not. > >martha That's the secondary issue here, martha, to make certain that every grower of Organic food be aware that Johnny's is open to 'offering' GE seed and to make certain that every consumer of Organic food be aware that their grower could be purchasing seeds from a source that sells GE seed. Here in Shepherdstown we have a man who sells at farmer's market every Sunday. Years ago, an ambitious extension agent encouraged him to get organic certification because 'Organic produce brings more money.' He became a certified organic grower for a few years and honked his horn about it quite loudly. Ultimately, however, he discovered two things: the first was that he didn't have the sort of intention/attention that is required to grow food organically; the second was that the majority of people in this county are not willing to pay more for organic produce. In a very short time, since neither the productivity nor the profit was there for him, he moved out of organics and dropped his certification. He wasn't as noisey about this, however. To this day, most people will tell you "Buy from ol' So-and-So, he's Organic." But he aint Organic. He ain't even close to Organic. A similar situation occurs with the Fresh Fields and related food chains. Only a portion of the products and produce they carry is organic and yet repeatedly I run into people who believe that what they are buying there is "100% Organic." The truth is, you have to scurtinize the labeling of EVERYTHING to make certain that your getting something that is up to your personal standards. As always, a Safe Food supply requires eternal vigilance. In this case, I think it will be to everyone's benefit to make sure that everyone we know who grows or eats is aware that the formerly Organic farmering mainstay, Johnny's Selected Seeds, has made a public statment that they are open to GE seeds in the near future. (And, more to the point: because of how their business is structured, they may actually have no choice in the matter....) -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 17:57:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA07100 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:57:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA25193; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24555 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:42:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.234] (pm3mbr1-67-234.intrepid.net [206.102.67.234]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01658 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:44:06 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:42:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Hunting for the deer bladder Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 Dr Steiner indicated that we ought to take a (Rotwild) red deer (male) bladder (stag bladder) into which we are to put dry, moistened Yarrows and, in spring, hang this bladder (as full as possible) underneath the overhang of our roof or in a place (shadowy) where it cannot be attacked by birds, mice and other rodents. Well, it is not my intention to discuss this part of the preparation making process but rather in the procurement of the deer bladder. And here, my friends, I really hit rock bottom. I think I reported to you how difficult it is to get high quality cow parts (mesentery, horns, small intestine etc.). It is much more difficult to get a good stag bladder. Now, imagine, in the days when Dr. Steiner gave his lectures (1924) many or most farms were surrounded by or included forests and fields in which a great variety of animals could live such as foxes, rabbits, hair, deer, squirrels and so forth. Farmers were familiar with the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly (life) rhythms of all these animals. The deer does not simply walk into the field(s) at any time of the day or night. It has a very special rhythm - like the sea. Coming and going. Observing. Eating brefly, regurgitating for hours. Picking herbs here, a bit of a bud there - here a leaf and there some grass. Moving, smelling, pissing, standing, sleeping - in constant motion. And so, I went a hunting. Gun, red jacket, boots, very thick underwear (it was minus 20 degrees Celsius (Finland). You cannot simply go out there and shoot a deer. You have to know what you are going for. You are constantly on the alert. You walk. YOu stand. You look. You listen. You wait - sometimes for a few hours, somewhere in a bush or in a ditch. You have become the shadow of the deer. When he moves, you move too. When he stands, you watch. And then, you crawl - just a bit and wait again. And nothing, absolutely nothing is happening. For hours. You may go home - and so have I - with a feeling of vast soul expansion. You see white, you see stars, you are outside yourselves. The tension inside you is there - you know that, at any time, you may have to shoot. To kill. To cut. To saw. To drain blood. To take out the innards and to carry a dead animal. You are standing at the threshhold of life and death. You are a guardian. You ought to be wise....! Deer bladders are very, very difficult to obtain. I went hunting for three days and I've walked many, many miles. I've spent hours on end in a tiny hut, at temperatures way below freezing - equipped with night vision, a candle by my side. Clad in army fatigue.......................... And now, I am of the opinion that I am on the right track. We must potentize our preparations. We must make highest quality preparations. Preparations that contain the wisdom of those who care for the environment and not simply stag bladders of deer that come from road kill or from hunting parties. We cannot let anybody else do the hunting for us. That simply is not fair and does not support the BD process. With the hunting goes the care for the forest, the observations of the trees and the plants. With the hunting goes the careful study of all the animals that live in our forest(s). They have rhythms. Deer come and go at intervals of two to two and a half hours. They reappear in the same area in intervals of half a day. They do not run around like wild dogs. They follow etheric streams. They are light gatherers. Highly sensitive. Very attentive, knowledgeable, fast and as shy as shadows. The deer is a great teacher. He teaches us in great depth how the forest and the land must be integrated. Without a wholesome integration of forest and farm-land: no proper farming. Without a proper farming no wholesome food. Without wholesome food a mankind that cannot think properly. Yet, we are slowly approaching this awful abyss: fewer and fewer people know how to think. Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 19:15:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA08452 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:15:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA07156; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:02:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06802 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:59:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp265.cy-net.net [208.21.195.74]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA02278 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:14:41 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F9E.FBF7CA20@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:59:46 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F9E.FBF7CA20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources (and on down the line) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:59:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F9E.FC00F1E0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F9E.FC00F1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Allan: I understand what you're saying, also. Can't sit on the fence on this = one, but I'm trying! When I have extra to market, I know our local = produce stand will buy everything I can haul in. He has a room carries = only organic produce, herbs and fruit. HOWEVER, the last time I asked = about selling extra last year, he commented that he was beginning to = grow his own (this is a huge company, Scarmado's in College Station Tx). = He said that without constant vigilance on his, the marketer's part, he = couldn't be certain that even though the certification says OG, the = grower could have filled out his bins with ordinary produce to round out = the offer. since OG does command more money, even buying produce and = reoffering it would make a profit if that were the case.=20 (I had hauled my certifications for him to put on file, and he said, OH, = I don't need yours, I found a worm in your broccoli.) Uh, thanks, I = think! I STILL SAY, I never understood why people who do nothing to their crops = in the way of poisons, chemicals etc, constantly have to prove it. When = are the poisoneers going to have to supply information on the crap they = use? Off topic Y2K and hybrid seed. Interesting note in this day of the = Terminator news. The Mining Company recently issued a few pages that = say, ok, the lights will be on next year. BUT, the food industry could = be hit hard, as most major cities only have reserves for a 72 hour = period. What happens is hybrid seed isn't as viable as OP seed, and = pretty much needs to be resupplied annually. (Thank you, Monsanto.) If there is a break in that chain of events, serious shortages could = occur. I'm not clapping in glee here, but maybe this is the eye-opener = that people are going to need.=20 part of the reason OG is still not mainstream is the cost factor. It's = too costly for corporate ag America to grow corn by the tonnage in = organically managed systems. Wait till they find out it's too costly NOT = to. 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Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:18:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA16313; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:08:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com [139.134.5.173]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA16012 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ja406025 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:03:11 +1000 Received: from WBBH-T-001-p-165-11.tmns.net.au ([139.134.165.11]) by mail0.bigpond.com (Claudes-Aquatic-MailRouter V2.2a); 04 Feb 1999 11:03:10 From: "Maritza de Oliveira and Angela Medeiros" To: Subject: GE Seeds Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:05:45 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <01031109343652@domain0.bigpond.com> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Dear friends, Any speculations as to what happens with the etheric of GE plants? What if the etheric of our plants will be strong/pure/dense/healthy enough to whitstand cross pollination with GE plants ? I am suggesting combating this technological terrorism with a spiritual approach. Angela Medeiros From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 21:38:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA11648 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA26344; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:28:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26205 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.94]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA15792 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:19:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990203182520.00918500@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:25:20 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id VAA26217 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 Dear Lloyd, At 05:55 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi igg. Thanks for all of the good advice. I didn't have time to reply >last week. You mentioned a cosmic pipe that used a drawing of a printed >circuit, a photo of an Aztec crystal skull and a bobby pin. I think >SECRETS OF THE SOIL said that too. I'd sure like to know the details of >how that is put in the pipe. > You said prayer may work just as well as any other subtle energy >method. Do you know how prayer can be tested scientifically by us email >subscribers? I don't have faith that my prayers would work as well as >many people's prayers. Do I have to bolster my faith? Have you seen >www.Neil.Slade.net? He talks about research that shows benefits of >collective prayer. I was wondering if subscribers might like to ask >other subscribers for prayers on a particular concern maybe at a >particular time. Art Bell seemed to get very good results with that for >bringing rain to needy areas, etc. What I'd like others to help me pray >for at 6 pm Feb. 6 or any time is clarity on how to be successful with >our organic farming this year. Prayer is generally placed in the realm of religion. In order for science to acknowledge the existence and effectiveness of prayer it first must discover a physical mechanism whereby non-physical (or spirit) energy and information can be brought into the physical realm. Rudolph Steiner's theories and observations would lend evidence to support such a discovery but Steiner wrote in the early part of this century before quantum theory became well accepted. The ORMUS theory postulates that there is a state of matter which can move from the physical to the non-physical and back. It is like having atoms with one leg in the non-physical and two legs in the physical. Under certain conditions these atoms can be induced to have two legs in the non-physical and one in the physical, in which case, they disappear and loose all weight. This phenomena is graphed at: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/Patents/figur012.gif According to ORMUS theory, the atoms in the powder which is being weighed are dropping to another space-time sheet. There are strong indications that the ORMUS elements are involved with the biological cell components which make decisions and perform computations. A couple of scientists have postulated that these cell components make decisions by throwing a problem into the infinite realm of all possible universes and retrieve the solution almost instantaneously. A more elaborate discussion of this idea is available at: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/ORMUS/ormus.htm If this is so, then we may have identified the mechanism which connects the physical and non-physical realms. While the mere knowledge of the existence of such a connecting mechanism does not identify the properties of the non-physical realm, it does provide a starting place for making the scientific case for the existence of mind independent of matter. > Have you seen any of these sites on ormus elements? >http://209.17.143.141/ormus/ORMUS/ormus2.htm, >http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/penrose1.html, >http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/whatisit.htm > They say the ormus elements are responsible for biological growth and >nerve functions, that they are superconducting and paramagnetic. One of >the sites says how to separate ormus elements from others, but then they >have to be protected from sunlight, etc. I thought it might be better to >leave them in their source material. Volcanic rock and limestone are >supposed to have a lot of ormus. So I'm thinking of stirring the ground >rockdust in water like a BD prep, stirring and reversing, and applying >it to the soil. Do you know anything about that? The process of conversion from the m-state (ORMUS state) to metal is facilitated by exposure to sunlight. Though sunlight does not complete this conversion, it is one component of the process. For this reason it is recommended that the pure ORMUS materials not be exposed to direct sunlight. Our working hypothesis in this regard is that the ORMUS elements, being superconductors, can store a considerable amount of energy. When this energy storage capacity is exceeded, the Meissner field, which helps to maintain these elements in the ORMUS state, collapses. On the occasion of this collapse the ORMUS elements may convert to energy and disappear in a flash of light or they may simply drop to the metallic state. Since all of the atoms in a pile of m-state material would not be exposed to sunlight evenly this Meissner collapse would not proceed evenly and so one could expect a variation in the state of the material depending on where it was in the pile. There is a great deal we don't know about these materials. Since concentrated ORMUS elements can "disappear in a flash of light", we felt it was prudent to suggest that they be kept from direct exposure to light. There does seem to be a concentration or purity component to this phenomena. It also seems to relate more to the m-state rhodium than to the other ORMUS elements. Though the ORMUS elements are abundant in any salt flat, one does not see these salt flats disappearing in a flash of light as can happen with the purified ORMUS materials. Alchemists claim that salt acts as a sort of keeper for the alchemical materials. We have noticed that this is true of the ORMUS materials as well. The sodium in salt, in particular seem to provide a "comfy space" for the ORMUS atoms to "hang out". Generally, unbound ORMUS elements in water will levitate out of the water as the water moves across the Earth's magnetic field. It is fairly clear that all of the ORMUS elements in water do not levitate out but some of them do. I believe that we will find that there are ways to use biodynamic and paramagnetic theories to create conditions favorable to the concentration of the ORMUS elements in the soil and to reduce their loss to leaching. This entire field of inquiry is new to modern science, though it may not be new historically. Any work done in this field, at this time, is virtually guaranteed to be cutting edge science. There is startling evidence that the ORMUS materials were known in ancient times. Sir Laurence Gardner, an internationally known sovereign and chivalric genealogist for the royal families of Europe has found amazing evidence among the ancient records of the royal families that these materials were known in ancient Egypt, Persia and Israel. There is a transcription of one of Gardner's recent lectures on this subject at: http://www.icom.net/~nexus/starfire1.html In this lecture Gardner suggests that Moses, working at an Egyptian temple/laboratory on Mount Serâbît in the Sinai peninsula, turned the golden calf into a white powder of ORMUS gold. He also suggests that this is the material which was the focus of the sages and kings of the time. He links these materials to the Grail, manna, the Philosopher's Stone, soma, and many other ancient things. I am fairly certain that as we look into these ancient connections we will find many that relate to the use of these materials in agriculture. > The chapter of SECRETS OF THE SOIL on Flanagan's studies said the >best shape for stirring is ovoid with a width to length ratio of 1 to >the sq. rt. of 2, i.e. 1 to 1.414. That produces the strongest vortex. >Does anyone use an ovoid spray tank? Joe and I are thinking of making >one of fiberglass. I also tho't it might be fine to just cut a spherical >tank in half and add about a foot or so long cylindrical midsection. >Joe's looking to find a spherical tank. But I suppose a cylindrical tank >might be good enuf. What do you think? Vortex action seems to be related to the ORMUS materials in several ways. The physicist Tony Smith associates the Compton Radius Vortex to the psychic subatomic particle observations of Theosophists Charles Leadbeater and Annie Besant. He uses their illustration of the Anu for his illustration of the Compton Radius Vortex. See: http://tony.ai/Sidharth.htm Several physicists have proposed that sonoluminescence is a form of fusion energy. Sonoluminescence occurs in water which is vibrated with high frequency sound. One company claims that they have a water heating device which uses mechanically created vortexes to produce over-unity amounts of hot water. You can read about this at: http://www.mv.com/ipusers/zeropoint/IEHTML/FEATURE/FSETS/popeset.html I believe that this device uses resonance coupling to the ORMUS materials in the water to extract energy from non-physical realms. > We're thinking of using mechanical stirring for the BD preps, etc. >The book said other farmers do that. Do you think that works as well as >stirring by hand? Joe tho't of hooking several pumps together on the PTO >and having a hose from each one going into the tank. At the end of the >hose would be a tee and a valve to make the water flow one way, then the >other. I don't know how we'd control the valve yet. We assume that this >would create a vortex in the tank as quickly as would a mechanical >stirring device and that the reversing of the flow to make chaos would >be easier. He was thinking of using about 1 and a half inch diameter >hose and tees, maybe four of them in all. That'd give quite a bit of >cross-sectional area, like a paddle would. Would you or anyone else have >experience along these lines? > The book also talked about "singing to clay" or something like that. >It mentioned a farmer who would sing a note into a bucket or barrel >while stirring and reversing water before applying to soil or crops, I >think. Do you know if that's helpful? And how the note is determined? >You said the sonic bloom type of spraying isn't needed bekuz the stomata >of the leaves are open anyway in the mornings [and evenings?]. But the >book implied that the high pitch sounds are helpful to the mitochondria >of the plant cells where energy is made. It said the mitochondria are >tuned to about 25 cycles per second and that bird song of about 5000 cps >are a harmonic of that. Also, if birdsong in the mornings and evenings >are what open the stomata, a lot of our ground is not very near to trees >where birds usually sit, so we tho't we might need to use the high pitch >anyway. Or do the stomata stay open then even without the birdsongs? And >is there a cheap source of the gibberillin that you know of? Are there >plants that have it in concentrated form, or whatever? A magnetic vortex can be applied to water and this seems to energize the water. I suspect that the m-state elements are somewhat energized and that this extra energy translates into a stronger Meissner field which facilitates intercellular communication in living organisms which take the water in. Of course, any time you stir or shake anything it is being moved in relation to the Earth's magnetic field. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 00:16:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA13989 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA14563; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from top.monad.net (root@top.monad.net [204.97.16.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27784 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:41:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from monad.net (arc1-98.keene.monad.net [206.231.109.98]) by top.monad.net (8.8.8/What) with ESMTP id VAA03613 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:42:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B90886.2D002B03@monad.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 21:40:23 -0500 From: Anton Elbers Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Orchard Hill Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 > I am new to this list and have only been readin the post's on GE seeds > and Johnny's for the last few days. I am concerned that the tone of this > discussion is so onesided. I read the letter that Rob Johnston wrote in > answer to the questions posed and although the positions he took might not > be agreeable to everyone on this list, I don't remember him saying that he > is ready or convinced at this time to sell or would try to sell GE seeds > without informing people, something that Allan seemed to be implying with > his story in the earlier post. > I truly believe that rather than starting a boycott our energy's are > better put towards finding ways to improve communication between the various > people and groups involved in finding ways to create a sustainable way of > life on this planet. > I don't believe that anyone of us has the answers to all the questions > facing us and it will take all of us working together to find the answers. -- Anton Elbers Orchard Hill Farm HC 63 box 91B East Alstead, N.H 03602 Aren't you nebber coming home? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 00:17:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA14013 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:17:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA14751; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:05:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28776 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:50:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-10.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.11]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id SAA26779 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:52:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902040252.SAA26779@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:32:02 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: BD SEEDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id VAA28782 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 Listfolk: In my listing of BD seed sources I inadvertently left off Elixer Farm, specialists in Chinese Medicinals.  Elixer Farm Botanicals, LLC Brixey, MO 65618 (417) 261-2393 www.elixerfarm.com Woody From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 11:54:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21245 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:53:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07868; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:45:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06016 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:35:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr3-67-162.intrepid.net [206.102.67.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28595 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:37:15 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:37:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: "Seeds of Discord" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 Seeds of Discord Monsanto's Gene Police Raise Alarm On Farmers' Rights, Rural Tradition By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, February 3, 1999; Page A01 BRUNO, Saskatchewan-On a cold January morning in central Canada, Percy Schmeiser looks over his frozen fields. "Here's where all the trouble began," he says, pointing to where private investigators last year arrived uninvited and snipped samples of his crops for DNA tests. Schmeiser, 68, has been farming these fertile acres all his life, growing canola for the valuable oil in its seeds. And as farmers have done for thousands of years, he has saved some seeds from each year's harvest to replant his fields the following season. Now, he says, "for doing what I've always done," he is being sued by agribusiness giant Monsanto Co. in a landmark "seed piracy" case. The outcome could influence how much control biotechnology companies will have over the world's food supply in the next millennium, and is highlighting a major source of friction as the genetic revolution spills into the world of agriculture. Schmeiser is one of hundreds of farmers in the United States and Canada who stand accused by Monsanto of replanting the company's patented, gene-altered seeds in violation of a three-year-old company rule requiring that farmers buy the seeds fresh every year. He vehemently denies having bought Monsanto's seeds, saying pollen or seeds must have blown onto his farm, possibly from a neighbor's land. It's the company, Schmeiser says, that ought to be rebuked for its pattern of "harassment." Besides sending Pinkerton detectives into farmers' fields, the company sponsors a toll-free "tip line" to help farmers blow the whistle on their neighbors and has placed radio ads broadcasting the names of noncompliant growers caught planting the company's genes. Critics say those tactics are fraying the social fabric that holds farming communities together. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 12:52:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22663 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:52:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19163; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:45:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18460 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr2-66-162.intrepid.net [206.102.66.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08589 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:43:48 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER CERTIFICATION. ( You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is not necessarily ORGANIC. AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil test reports from independent labs.) Thanks for finding time for this -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 13:13:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23225 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:13:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA23228; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:05:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22901 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA25217 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:08:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:08:11 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 Dear Allan, Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. Michael On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER > CERTIFICATION. ( > You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a > definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on > the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, > maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't > come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > > > > Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with > particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is > not necessarily ORGANIC. > > AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations > which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil > test reports from independent labs.) > > > Thanks for finding time for this > > -Allan Balliett > moderator, BD NOW! > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 14:23:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25640 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:23:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA06496; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd93.hotmail.com [207.82.252.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA05376 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:11:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10313 invoked by uid 0); 4 Feb 1999 19:12:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990204191205.10312.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:12:02 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF:Mixed Signals Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:12:02 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 To any and all, Sometimes the source of signals is easily mis-understood when I am working in nature. In biodynamics, I believe we are looking at the way the head underground works in contrast to the way in the atmosphere above. I did not fully comprehend this until reading some text about the pioneering done in early radio. In the early days of radio the ground was considered the most effective collector and transmittor of energy and signals. Those signals in the ground are strongest around peculiar geologic formations. I am unsure of the particular formation in which they are strongest in but mabey I will be able to understand more in the future through study, but NOT in the CONVENTIONAL or what we call modern. For this I am grateful to people like Dr. Steiner for there are parallels in pioneering radio of principals associated with the ground and in what Dr. Steiner gave in his Ag Lectures. I don't know actually what happened during my great-grandfathers epoch but the course of history through civilization seems to have embraced principals of opposite nature than that of biodynamics or pioneering radio. It is possible that a conspiratorial, greed based society would want to posses these concepts for their own. It is also possible that through scholarship in the university system at that time that these errors were perpetuated -- creating new myths. But not in getting too far away from the theme of this mailing, I do realize that geologics play a role in the signal strength of the ground. Some areas of the world that have peculiar formations seem to amplify signals more readily and some areas are dead. The area I live in, I do believe has a definite signature. It is so peculiar, for I am able to think a thing at a particular locale and then later on have someone either write or speak this same thing I was earlier thinking. This has happened enumerable times. Other things that have happened as well has to do with the place that I raise fish at. That area is prone to periodic flooding. I am constantly doing things to try to dicourage flooding without altering its serenity. Many times I have thought that I should do this or that and then do the thing. It works! No trial or error! Strange. An even stranger thing is that one would tend to think that heavy rains and flooding go together. I have found this to be totally untrue in an area that has a deep geologic & biodynamic foundation. The more I work with bd in that area the more responsive it becomes. So sometimes, I have found that the response that biodynamic nature is making that I have imagined that some human was watching me and mocking me by for example, not allowing flooding to occur. Then as I was reading things about pioneering radio, I realized. Yes, Yes, Yes. Steiner was most correct. A farm or garden can have its own unique personality. It IS AN ENTITY! You help it, It helps you. There is interaction between the soil and man or woman. It can be such a strong relationship, that the earth itself can take over and do the things that we are unable to due for lack of time or some other lack. Anyway, I am just beginning to realize what this Steiner fellow was refering to. It is one thing to understand something through intelligence and another to understand through personal experiance. It can be literal and it can be spiritual at the same time. I don't believe the two can be seperate because of movement between the two .... the marriage between heaven and earth has brought forth man and woman. By the way, if I have offended any on this list by my short sightedness of experiance, please accept my apology friends. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 14:49:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26426 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:49:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12010; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:41:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11782 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:41:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.76]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAB20676 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:33:07 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990204113731.0086d250@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:37:31 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Web Based Activism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 119 Dear Friends, Several recent notes to this list have mentioned the possiblity of web based activism. I have been watching web based action campaigns for several years and have come up with some guidelines for successful email based action alerts. I am including some examples of well done and not so well done calls for action. I just got a note from a Pakistani newspaper writer calling for an effort to stop government censorship in Pakistan. This note did not include some of the most important items that should be included in such a call for action. Here is my note to this writer: Dear Isa, The kind of problem you mention below can be effectively countered by internet activists and I wish you luck. The most effective calls for action include the following information: 1. A clear and fairly brief description of the problem. 2. A direct personal example of the problem. 3. Information on where to go for more information (preferrably a web site). (If such is site is inadvisable with a Pakistan address it could be set up with a sympathizer in another country.) 4. An example letter which suggests comments or, 5. A list of suggested actions. For example: A. Take the 60-day No Aspartame Test and send us your case history. Mission Possible International 5950-H State Bridge Rd. #215, Duluth, GA 30097 USA B. Tell your doctor and all of your friends! 6. A list of addresses of people to contact with our objections. Here is an example of several of these concepts in action: PLEASE SEND LETTERS TODAY!!!! Here's what you should say, but in your own words. Tell these captains of industry that Boise Cascade is making a large and expensive mistake. The opposition to the project is widespread and diverse, from Chile's tourism industry to Chile's salmon industry to the Mayor of Puerto Montt to environmental groups from around the world. Chile's temperate rainforests are priceless, too valuable to be squandered away as wood chips and fiber board. The world's largest chip and board mill is not appropriate in Chile, its offensive. Chileans will fight it tooth and nail, and so will international environmental groups. In that kind of environment, Boise Cascade will have a very difficult time guaranteeing a sufficient supply of timber for their Cascada Chile mill. Its a risky venture for them, and it will just get riskier. In addition, specifically tell Mr. Harad and his board partner, Mr. Robert Jaedicke, to instead reinvest in their projects at home by emphasizing responsible management of their lands. And urge Mr. Marshall Carter and Mr. John Gunn to use their financial stockholder might as leverage to put pressure on Boise Cascade to pull out of this shaky and irresponsible investment. There is a window of opportunity right now for us to help Boise Cascade reverse course. The company still must obtain full bank financing for the Cascada Chile project in order for it to go forward, and Boise Cascade's board of directors must also vote its approval of the project at their meeting this Spring. Thousands of influential letters can turn them around! Mr. George Harad Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Boise Cascade Corporation 224 E. Braemere Rd. Boise, Idaho 83702-1710 Mr. Marshall N. Carter, CEO State Street Bank & Trust 225 Franklin St. Boston, MA 02110 Mr. Robert K. Jaedicke Stanford University Graduate School of Business Stanford, CA 94305 Mr. John Gunn, President Dodge & Cox 1 Sansome Street San Francisco, CA 94104-4436 ________________________________________________________ 7. Target the activists that you feel are most likely to respond. Join email lists and newsgroups which might have folks willing to help your cause. Find individuals who are a part of numerous newsgroups or email lists who might circulate your message to the lists that they are a part of. Suggest the type of activists that these folks might contact. In your call for action, ask that it be circulated as widely as possible. 8. Put a short but descriptive title on your plea. "Sinking the News" is good but it does not convey what you wish to have happen. How about "Help Stop Pakistan Government from Sinking the News". 9. Protect yourself. Use an anonymous remailer for responses, have a friend in another country forward responses, write your story in the third person and anything else that you can think of to protect your ability to keep up the fight. Your continuted information is the most critical thing to the continuation of this effort. Develop as many alternative means of getting information out as you can. Also, see if you can find others who will continue the fight if you no longer have communication access. It is important for those who oppose you to know that they cannot solve the problem by silencing a few voices. 10. Help people make the link between your cause and other popular causes. If there are US corporations which are pushing the Pakistani government into its position, you can get anti-corporate folks to support your cause. Are labor issues involved? If they are, you can target a call to action to labor related activists. The same with environmental, human rights and globalist issues. It might be nice to have a message which ties all of these items into one call to action but it might be more effective to have several messages targeted to different activist communities. You want to get your message cross posted to as many email lists as possible. Make this easy for folks to do by providing a justification for them to post things that might be a little bit off subject but not far enough off subject that they will be criticized for their post. An environmental forest activist friend of mine has written a fine series of articles on how to be an effective activist. Though these articles apply to forest activism there are many principles that relate to activism in general. This series is called "Usual Suspects" and can be found at: http://britell.com/use/use1.html I hope that I will have an opportunity to help circulate your message when I have a clearer idea of what you wish to happen. At 01:43 PM 2/4/99 +0500, you wrote: > > >---------- >From: Isa Daudpota [SMTP:daudpota@sdnpk.undp.org] >Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 7:28 PM >To: Undisclosed.recipients:; >Subject: "Sinking the News" > >This is my plea against the Government of Pakistan's attempt >to get 16 journalists fired from the national daily "The News". Isa > >-------------------"Sinking the News"----------------------- > > >Fascism survives in its morbid forms througout the world, but nowhere are >its methods more blatant than in the developing world. Dissidents are >intimidated and newspapers pressured to present a pleasing picture of the >government's performance. Where govenments begin to act like Goliath, >thankfully, Davids springs up, and their appearance restores ones faith in >society's latent capacity for healing. In Pakistan, there are 16 such >Davids whose honest ink have filled the columns of "The News" and >highlighted continued misgovernance in Pakistan. The government is now >coercing this national daily to stifle these brave voices and to replace >them by others who would readily trumpet the government's achievements. > >In such times let's remind ourselves of the moving words of Pastor Martin >Nielmoller. [The string of journalists from other newspapers who have >appeared on Pakistan Television *supporting* the government's action need >to pay particular attention.] The Pastor wrote: > >"In Germany they first came for the Communist and I didn't speak up >because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't >speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came >for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then >they came for me -- and by that time no one was left to speak up." > >A united journalists' community and others who value a liberal press >should strongly oppose the government's high-handed policy to suppress >free journalism in this country. Remember, that failure in this would be >a step towards ending unbiased national reporting. It would condemn those >wanting to know the national news -- grim as it is in reality -- to >viewing Pakistan Television's sugary government propaganda. Horror! >That's reason enough to put up a fight. > > >Q. Isa Daudpota Email: daudpota@sdnpk.undp.org >P. O. Box 3099, >Islamabad 44000, PAKISTAN. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:14:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28084 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:14:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16335; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:06:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16140 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:05:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr4-150-56.intrepid.net [209.190.150.56]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04107 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:06:29 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:04:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 Michael - Are these tests for organic matter levels, trace minerals, etc -or- are they test for heavy metal contamination, etc (or 'both')? -Allan >Dear Allan, > > Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative >Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants >and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley >and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA >around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. >Michael > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >> I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER >> CERTIFICATION. ( >> You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a >> definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on >> the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, >> maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't >> come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? >> >> >> >> Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with >> particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is >> not necessarily ORGANIC. >> >> AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations >> which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil >> test reports from independent labs.) >> >> >> Thanks for finding time for this >> >> -Allan Balliett >> moderator, BD NOW! >> >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:16:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28133 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:16:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16833; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:08:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16489 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:07:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr4-150-56.intrepid.net [209.190.150.56]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04539 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:08:26 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:08:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Maria Thun Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most thankful for a hint. Ferdinand Vondruska From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:37:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28714 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:37:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA21255; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from webc02.globecomm.net (www2.iname.net [165.251.12.22]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20991 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:28:55 -0500 (EST) From: pamdetray@email.com Received: by webc02.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) id PAA23180 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990204152923E5.14744@webc02.globecomm.net> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:29:23 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: study circle Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 Hello all, my computer is dead but my efforts to comprehend the Ag Course are still very much alive. However, I don't have much access to email until I replace the old Mac. I hope to have as much of the lecture course as possible under my belt before I start planting this spring. Don't know when I'll have a new computer. I would be curious to hear from other study circle participants--how are you coming with your individual study? Cheers, Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:43:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28819 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:43:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA22530; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd112.hotmail.com [207.82.252.176]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA21799 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10263 invoked by uid 0); 4 Feb 1999 20:26:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990204202613.10262.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:26:13 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Maria Thun Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:26:13 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 Dear Ferdinand, Try "Working With the Land and the Constellations". Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:46:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28847 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:46:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA22394; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA21756 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:32:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay019124126.acay.com.au [203.19.124.126]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA31782 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 04:50:17 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:34:31 +1100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: Re: Maria Thun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 On 05-Feb-99, you wrote: > Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most > thankful for a hint. > > Ferdinand Vondruska > Regards ' Work on the Land and the Constellations', this is one book by Maria Thun that I know of. Regards Margaret from Australia From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:58:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA29056 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA25311; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:51:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd108.hotmail.com [207.82.252.172]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24909 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:49:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16258 invoked by uid 0); 4 Feb 1999 20:50:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990204205010.16257.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:50:10 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: study circle Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:50:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 Dear Pam, I don't know if I'm studing that much at the moment..(e.g.) have you ever been to a Church where everyone has their head in the Hymnal? Even though they use the same liturgical setting nearly every Sunday... no one remembers it. Why? Their not using their Heart.... Once the heart enters into the matter, a person begins to experiance. With the experiance we observe. Put another way. Observe the experiance. After our first year of the use of preparations, I want to observe the experiance. I want to see what has occurred, look at what change is taking place. Its wonderful and the entity(of the farm) is beginning to assume its' own character. Is that something else that Steiner meant, you know, when he said "the period of crystalization"? Mabey its the time when the farm entity begins to communicate with the rest of the environment. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 16:13:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA29361 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:13:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA28288; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:05:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27796 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp50.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.150]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA20073 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:03:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00ce01be5081$a612b640$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Maria Thun Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:02:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 Ferdy, Pam!!! So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. You have both been in my thoughts. Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with us...just let her rip! (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) :-) Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 17:04:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01710 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA07573; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:53:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06609 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:50:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr2-66-150.intrepid.net [206.102.66.150]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26315 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:51:19 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:51:45 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Honeybee Quote Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 Not giving up with the lack of enthusiasm about defining Demeter Certification, I'm looking for your favorite quote about THE HONEYBEE. One from RS would be most welcomed, but what else do you have? -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 20:37:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05316 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:37:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA09021; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:27:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08904 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:26:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.26]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:36:15 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:27:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Message-ID: <6D40ADD8B6AEDEAC8525670F000657B1.0007FE458525670F@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 128 Dear Friends of Bd-Now, <> I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their collective hubris. Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was unclear? Respectfully, Jane Sherry (Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 21:01:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06047 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:01:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA11975; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from aristotle.net (aristotle.net [204.233.139.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11667 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:50:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [199.240.82.231] (pmppp231.aristotle.net [199.240.82.231]) by aristotle.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13043 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:52:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:52:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6D40ADD8B6AEDEAC8525670F000657B1.0007FE458525670F@webcity> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: vinnie Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 129 Bravo!! Jane Sherry. How articulate and clear! Vinnie at Elixir Farm >Dear Friends of Bd-Now, > ><intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations >steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, >and such? > >That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the >general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they >can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel >that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. >It is murky beyond comfort.">> > >I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. >However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations >is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not >the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their >collective hubris. > >Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control >LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! >Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is >unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce >diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? > >The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone >would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very >greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can >not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. > >Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational >corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- >fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic >manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was >unclear? > >Respectfully, >Jane Sherry >(Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 21:35:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06771 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:35:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16154; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:26:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15941 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:24:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-2-p135.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.135]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01231 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:25:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BA5405.4702F6B1@seattle2000.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:14:59 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) References: <00ce01be5081$a612b640$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 Yes, I am here lurking... Thanks for asking Julie. And Ferdy, if you want, you can just lurk too. (I hate that word but I have found that by just reading and discarding email and not feeling obligated to answer those not addressed to me personally, I have more freedom! And we will all be getting busier as the winter rolls away... Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm "Julie M." wrote: > Ferdy, Pam!!! > > So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking > about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. > You have both been in my thoughts. > > Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your > departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with > us...just let her rip! > > (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) > > :-) > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 21:55:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA07019 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA18670; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:47:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18427 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0113.direct.ca ([204.244.83.13] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 108bHy-000694-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:46:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36BA5B3E.4381F2CD@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:45:18 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) References: <00ce01be5081$a612b640$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36BA5405.4702F6B1@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 Dear Martin, Just returned from the stable. Having been away for seven weeks is a long, long time. We have put about 6 - 7 inches of bird's eye gravel into the cow pen and it works wonders. No more foot problems, and they love to rest on the sand (it is about a 4mm dia.sand). So, anybody who has cows that he has to keep in a small(er) pen, let me assure you that bird's eye is the answer. We can easily collect the manure. The urin is running away. And another benefit: In spring we put BD Preparations into the sand (the cows are then on the field and not in the pen) and we can harvest the most amazing crops such as tomatoes, cukes, cabbage, zucchinis (you have never seen such fine zucchinis!) and a lot of vegetable that is high feeder. Of course, the Preps (compost preps) will break down the manure in the sand relatively quickly and the roots will go all the way down into the underground. I just wanted to add this for those who have a problem with keeping cows penned in. We keep 5 cows (more on the way). As I said: the hooves are clean, the fur is shining and the eyes are bright and happy. And the small calf is full of zest and vigour. What else: yea! I realized that the snow melted right away when falling on the sand. On concrete, on the soil and on the hard gravel it is still laying about 4 inches thick. So, sand must reflect the warmth of the air and let some air get inbetween snow and sand so that it will melt faster. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Yes, I am here lurking... Thanks for asking Julie. And Ferdy, if you want, > you can just lurk too. (I hate that word but I have found that by just reading > and discarding email and not feeling obligated to answer those not addressed to > me personally, I have more freedom! And we will all be getting busier as the > winter rolls away... > Martin Nyberg > GreenMan Farm > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > Ferdy, Pam!!! > > > > So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking > > about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. > > You have both been in my thoughts. > > > > Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your > > departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with > > us...just let her rip! > > > > (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) > > > > :-) > > > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 22:01:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07405 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:01:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19331; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:52:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18984 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:50:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-15.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.47]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id SAA12670 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:51:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902050251.SAA12670@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:45:41 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 Allan: >From a Demeter trifold brochure: "The Demeter Association, Inc. is a national, independent, non-profit, non-tax-exempt corporation committed to assuring that Biodynamic foods in the United States are grown and processed with the highest integrity and care. The standards for evaluation are used worldwide." Also: "The Demeter Associations stands as your assurance that food properly bearing the Demeter Association symbols has been grown by Biodynamic agricultural methods and has met specific standards within these methods. Synthetic fertilizers, insecticides, fungicides, herbicides, hormones, additives and irradiation are not used on farms and processed foods certified by the Demeter Association." and Allan: IMO there is no non-organic agriculture which is sustainable; nor is much of organic methodology sustainable. For a definition of sustainabiligy in agriculture, think of the Chinese methods detailed in _Farmers of Forth Centuries_ by F H King, writing in the first decade of the present century. Woody At 12:42 PM 2/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER >CERTIFICATION. ( >You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a >definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on >the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, >maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't >come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > > > >Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with >particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is >not necessarily ORGANIC. > >AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations >which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil >test reports from independent labs.) > > >Thanks for finding time for this > >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 23:10:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA09832 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA26968; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:58:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net (eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net [207.109.240.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA26592 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:54:38 -0500 (EST) From: jrei@uswest.net Received: (qmail 19983 invoked by alias); 5 Feb 1999 03:55:59 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-bdnow@envirolink.org@fixme Received: (qmail 19969 invoked by uid 0); 5 Feb 1999 03:55:58 -0000 Received: from dialupb210.eugn.uswest.net (HELO pop.eugn.uswest.net) (209.180.176.210) by eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 1999 03:55:58 -0000 Message-ID: <36BA6AF2.C8879542@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:52:19 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , "OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU" Subject: American Seed Trade Association Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 Just returned from the Vegetable and Flower Seed Conference of the American Seed Trade Association and thought some of you would be interested in some of the discussions. First of all I would like to thank those of you who provided comments for me to share with the All-American Selections Committee concerning the inclusion of GM (genetically modified) varieties into the selection's judging. It was decided that GM varieties would not be allowed into the competition because the AAS lacked the resources to explain GM varieties to the general public. During the conference I had a chance to talk with representatives from nearly all of the major seed producers from around the world. The topic of GM varieties was a major point of discussion both on a one-to-one basis as well as in committee meetings. Two points soon became clear. The first was that some companies were genuinely surprised by the attitude of disappointment and disapproval by the home gardener. Many truly see GM varieties as the savior of mankind. The second was the fact that most companies are taking the lack of regulation, mainly in the area of labeling, by the federal government as an open door invitation to increase the amount of GM material introduced into the food supplies. The feeling is that as long as GM grains are allowed to be blended into the supplies of non -GM grains, the American public will be 'stelthed' into submission. As most of you know the home garden market is but a drop in the bucket when it comes to the total amount of vegetable seed used in the US. More and more garden seed companies are faced with taking a variety that was really bred for the commercial market or to develop a breeding and seed production program which is expensive and time consuming. That leaves many at the mercy of the large international seed companies that are racing towards GO varieties as if their life depended on it. Many of these companies have the stated objective of rapidly moving towards GM varieties for there entire lineup. It was also interesting to hear most of the companies say that the current terminator technology was impractical due to the necessity of treating the seed with tetracycline in order to activate the gene, but that most had ongoing programs to develop similar technologies that was less complicated. Many of the senior company representatives are convinced that there must be ways to definitively protect their varieties from unauthorized use. It was however, somewhat reassuring that when I explained that Territorial Seed Company would not trial or market any variety that is developed by GM, a number of seed companies indicated that they would assist us in whatever way possible to continue to offer home garden varieties as well as providing us with discontinued germplasm with which we could use to continue to expand our own seed production. Hope this spurs some additional discussion about the state of GMO's in the US today. Joel Reiten Territorial Seed Company From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 00:34:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA10995 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA04587; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:23:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA02258 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:01:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay019124100.acay.com.au [203.19.124.100]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA13995 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:18:19 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: BDnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:26:52 +1100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: mad cow disease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one has sent in any relevant info as yet. Could someone out there give me info to pass on? Thank you Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 05:44:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA14499 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:44:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA25527; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:36:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA25374 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:33:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 108ibK-0004PP-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:35:06 +0000 Message-ID: <36BA0412.D3DF5822@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:33:22 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Maria Thun References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 Any book? 'Work on the Land and the Constellations' Maria Thun, translation 1990 ISBN 0 906155 30 X Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most > thankful for a hint. > > Ferdinand Vondruska From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 05:45:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA14513 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:45:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA25476; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA25376 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:33:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 108ibN-0004Qr-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:35:10 +0000 Message-ID: <36BAC024.2B59DE91@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:55:48 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: mad cow disease References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 We are still getting stories every now and again in the UK of people with CJD, which may be the result of eating infected beef. This has some very unpleasant symptoms and ultimately leads to death. This week there was a story in the paper that a cow in France had been found with BSE (Bovine SE) and the whole herd had to be put down (though I wasn't sure if that meant the herd in France or the herd in Britain where the cow came from - maybe both). The policy remains in place that one infected cow means deth to a complete herd. The UK is still trying to get the European Union to lift the ban on trading British beef. Alison Margaret Kemp wrote: > Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is > known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a > list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one > has sent in any relevant info as yet. > Could someone out there give me info to pass on? > Thank you > Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 08:31:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA15858 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03476; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:23:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03076 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:18:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <36606-11402>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:05 -0400 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:04 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds In-Reply-To: <6D40ADD8B6AEDEAC8525670F000657B1.0007FE458525670F@webcity> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 Yeah Jane... Couldn't have said it better myself.. The Nova Scotia Organic Growers Assoc. (NSOGA) is now in the process of publishing a Bio-Tech special edition newsletter...This will include a list of biodynamic/organic seed companies.... Ecology & evironmental groups will be assisting in helping this publication reaches the consumer.... Anyone interested in obtaining a copy contact: Janet Wallace Email: jwallace@istar.ca --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Dear Friends of Bd-Now, > > < intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations > steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, > and such? > > That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the > general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they > can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel > that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. > It is murky beyond comfort.">> > > I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. > However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations > is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not > the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their > collective hubris. > > Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control > LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! > Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is > unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce > diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? > > The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone > would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very > greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can > not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. > > Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational > corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- > fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic > manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was > unclear? > > Respectfully, > Jane Sherry > (Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 08:32:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA15868 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03538; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:23:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03139 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:18:50 -0500 (EST) From: WCavender@aol.com Received: from WCavender@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5AVEa05501 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:19:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3138a9c8.36baefde@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:19:26 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Send Email to help stop the Terminator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 138 http://www.rafi.org/usda.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 14:56:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28968 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:55:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24509; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:47:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.42]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12156 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:19:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.4.112]) by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990205182010.ETBT9283@default>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:20:10 +0000 Message-ID: <36B7A4BF.6DC5@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:22:07 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net, hwashen@trace.net.tw Subject: Re: seeds References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 139 Dear Bill and Listfolk, The most complete gathering of links and contact information for open-pollinated, Heirloom seed sources I have yet found is at: http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople. Best Regards, Linda Ray Free as a community service-- The above link is posted on the US Organic Agriculture Message Board: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > to the list. I'd like to get this list together - - through everyone's > input - - and up on the www.igg.com/bdnow because there is a LOT of > interest reliable REAL seed. -AB> > > Hi, > > Can you refer me to sources of non-hybrid, open pollenating seeds? I am > working with farmers in Taiwan using biodynamic methods to transition from > chemical to organic farming. > > Thank you, > > Bill Watson > Eden (T'ien Lin) Partners > > hwashen@trace.net.tw From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 14:56:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28977 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:56:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24625; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:48:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12713 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:23:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-3.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.35]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id KAA20812 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:24:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902051824.KAA20812@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 11:16:45 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: mad cow disease In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 140 Margaret: http://www.cyber-dyne. com/~tom/mad_cow_disease.html Woody At 02:26 PM 2/5/99 +1100, you wrote: >Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is >known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a >list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one >has sent in any relevant info as yet. >Could someone out there give me info to pass on? >Thank you >Margaret > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 14:56:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28996 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:56:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24857; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:49:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21700 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:29:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA25201 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:33:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 141 Hi Allan, I waited until I contacted Sarah Davidson of BCARA, who heads the certification section. Yes, they require soil tests on total organics, minerals, trace minerals for new applicants for each of the first three years, then once in every three years afterwards. If there was a history of pesticide use, then, at least for the first year, they have to also do a pesticide screen, or, select for certain pesticides if a detailed history is known. In theory, COABC requires one in three years testing for the above, but, apparently not all of the 8 certification gov't sponsored agencies all comply or enforce, but, BCARA does. Michael On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Michael - Are these tests for organic matter levels, trace minerals, etc > -or- are they test for heavy metal contamination, etc (or 'both')? -Allan > > > >Dear Allan, > > > > Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative > >Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants > >and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley > >and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA > >around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. > >Michael > > > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > >> I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER > >> CERTIFICATION. ( > >> You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a > >> definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on > >> the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, > >> maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't > >> come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > >> > >> > >> > >> Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with > >> particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is > >> not necessarily ORGANIC. > >> > >> AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations > >> which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil > >> test reports from independent labs.) > >> > >> > >> Thanks for finding time for this > >> > >> -Allan Balliett > >> moderator, BD NOW! > >> > >> > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 15:00:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA29166 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:00:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24739; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from www4.iname.net (www4.iname.net [165.251.12.24]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA16330 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:50:47 -0500 (EST) From: pamdetray@email.com Received: by www4.iname.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) id NAA07230 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9902051352109L.01686@www4.iname.net> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:52:10 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: STUDY L3 Sulfur Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 142 Every time I read this lecture, a question always hovers. In the past, I've used sulfur to balance the alkalinity of my soil, before the effects of all my composting here started to kick in. Is soil alkaline partly because of a lack of sulfur? Weren't the creative fingers moistened enough when the high desert here was created? Thanks, Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 15:31:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA29930 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:31:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA01278; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:23:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from m24.boston.juno.com (m24.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00506 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from barrylia@juno.com) by m24.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2QJPJQ6; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 15:20:04 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:56:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Message-ID: <19990205.122205.-4073599.0.barrylia@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,5-10,13,16,23,31,35,41,52-58 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Barry D Lia Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 143 On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:27 -0500 Intergalactic Garage writes: [snip] >Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with particular emphasis on that agriculture which is >sustainable but which is not necessarily ORGANIC. [snip] >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! Allan, I don't have a "succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture'" to proffer, but I thought I'd offer the following food for thought on the topic above. You may already be familiar with Gene Logsdon's writings? His THE CONTRARY FARMER represents an "agriculture which is sustainable but which is not necessarily ORGANIC." I'm thinking in particular of passages starting on page 161: "Oh, so you're not a certified organic grower, visitors sometimes snort, knowing that I have been an outspoken supporter of organic farming methods for thirty years. Nope, I'm not. For thirty years I've also said that a _moderate_ amount of chemical fertilizer is not harmful to anything and is sometimes the most economical way to maintain fertility. I thought that the organic fraternity would eventualy realize this." Keep in mind that his concern here is NOT with nitrogen--he manures and rotates pasture--but with P & K: "And to say that natural raw phosphate or potash derivatives are okay for sustainable agriculture and the fertilizers refined from them are anathema is an argument for which little proof exists outside the minds of organic purists. Besides, think of the increased air pollution, ozone build-up, transportation costs, and highway accidents that would occur if all of agriculture decided to rely only on far greater tonnages of the unrefined material. "I figure I am just as competent and justified in this situation to declare that a little chemical fertilizer is okay in good farming as the NOSB evidently feels justified and competent in saying that antibiotics, which I have not had to use, are sometimes okay in organic farming." Logsdon later quotes a friend of his: "'If the National Organic Standards Board insists on barring all synthetic fertilizers, most farmers trying hard to achieve a sustainable agriculture that works will simply drop out of the organic movement. I don't care to be certified organic anyway; I just want to run an ecologically sane farm on the least amount of inputs as possible.'" His moderated non-purist attutude is also reflected the bottom of page 204: "Eventually the good farmer--following a rotation of corn, oats, wheat, hay, and pasture and then back to corn--will keep his fields relatively weed-free without herbicides. If a special weed problem does occur, then a small spot-spraying of herbicide to the problem area can be very effective, but only under the mantle of proper rotations and cultivation. I am sorry to have to disagree with the organic purists who liken herbicide applications to human drug use and say that it only takes a spoonful to start an addiction." [Recall that such "small spot-spraying of herbicide to the problem area" was indeed a moderate attitude advocated even by Rachel Carson in SILENT SPRING.] _____________________________________________________________ Barry Lia, Seattle WA ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 15:33:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00023 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA01187; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:23:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902052023.PAA01187@envirolink.org> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:49:23 EST Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Biodynamic Farming and Gardening To: Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Subject: BDNOW digest 86 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--__ListProc__NextPart__918244163459122081" Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 144 ----__ListProc__NextPart__918244163459122081 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" BDNOW Digest 86 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Intergalactic Garage 2) Re: Harvey Lisle etc. by Intergalactic Garage 3) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by Michael Roboz 4) RE: Johnny's GE Seeds by Martha Wells 5) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Martha Wells 6) Garden Supply online by Martha Wells 7) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by cvinson@mindspring.com 8) Re: OFF: OFMA GE Policy by Jane Sherry/wcdev/US 9) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by Intergalactic Garage 10) RE: Johnny's GE Seeds by Intergalactic Garage 11) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Intergalactic Garage 12) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by cvinson@mindspring.com 13) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Intergalactic Garage 14) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Martha Wells 15) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by "Steven McFadden" 16) BD SEEDS RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Woody Wodraska 17) Re: Allan Chadwick by "Gwenda Robb" 18) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Intergalactic Garage 19) Hunting for the deer bladder by Intergalactic Garage 20) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources (and on down the line) by Martha Wells 21) GE Seeds by "Maritza de Oliveira and Angela Medeiros" 22) Re: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray by Barry Carter 23) Re: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Anton Elbers 24) BD SEEDS by Woody Wodraska 25) "Seeds of Discord" by Intergalactic Garage 26) Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Intergalactic Garage 27) Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Michael Roboz 28) OFF:Mixed Signals by "Michael Smith" 29) Web Based Activism by Barry Carter 30) Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Intergalactic Garage 31) Maria Thun by Intergalactic Garage 32) study circle by pamdetray@email.com 33) Re: Maria Thun by Margaret Kemp 34) Re: Maria Thun by "Michael Smith" 35) Re: study circle by "Michael Smith" 36) Re: Maria Thun by "Julie M." 37) Honeybee Quote by Intergalactic Garage 38) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by Jane Sherry/wcdev/US 39) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by vinnie 40) Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) by Martin Nyberg 41) Re: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) by Ferdinand Vondruska 42) Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Woody Wodraska 43) American Seed Trade Association by jrei@uswest.net 44) mad cow disease by Margaret Kemp 45) Re: mad cow disease by ALISON EADES 46) Re: Maria Thun by ALISON EADES 47) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by Joan Macdonald 48) Send Email to help stop the Terminator by WCavender@aol.com 49) Re: seeds by Linda Ray 50) Re: mad cow disease by Woody Wodraska 51) STUDY L3 Sulfur by pamdetray@email.com 52) Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Michael Roboz ----__ListProc__NextPart__918244163459122081 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="--__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BDNOW__digest_86" ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:04:36 -0500 To: BDNOW@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's an un-updated list from Crissy Bowman of OFMA of potentially Organic open-pollinated seed . We can use it as a starting point. (yes, this list needs proof-reading, some culling, and some preening...anyone up for that??) ABUNDANT LIFE. Membership on a sliding scale rate of $5 to $15 per year. Abundant Life Seed Foundation, P.O. Box 772, Port Townsend, Washington 98368. AGE-OLD GARDEN SUPPLY. Natural gardening Products for your organic garden. PO. Box 1556, Boulder, Colorado 80306. AMES’ ORCHARD & NURSERY. R 5, Box 194, Fayetteville, Arkansas 72701. ARBICO. Sustainable Environmental Alternatives for Organic Growers. PO. Box 4247 CRB. Tucson, Arizona 85738-1247. 602-825-9785 or 800-827-2847. In Canada: MANBICO. Box 22. Group 15 RRIC, Winnipeg. Manitoba, Canada R3C 2E4. 204 339-9488, 800-665-2494. BEAR CREEK NURSERY. PO. Box 411, Bear Creek Road. Northport, Washington 991S7. BOZEMAN BIO-TECH. 1612 Gold Avenue, PO. Box 3146. Bozeman. Montana 59772. Products for insect protection. W. ATLEE BURPEE CO. 300 Park Ave., Warminster, Pennsylvania 18991. Phone 215-674-4915. 80s888-1447. BUTTERBROOKE FARMS coo Tom Butterworth. 78 Barry Road, Oxford. Connecticut 06483. SASE required for information. CORNS. Contact Carl L and Karen D Barnes, Route 1, Box 32. Turpin, Oklahoma 13950. $1.00 for price list and information letter. DOWN ON THE FARM SEED. P.O. Box 184. Hirarn. Ohio 44234 ECO SOURCE. PO. B-ox I656, Sebastopol, California 9S473. FEDCO SEEDS. Unued seeds, orgasmic. 52 Mayflower Hil Drive. Waterville, Maine 04901. HENRY FIELD’S-SEED & NURSERY CO. s l 5 North Burnett. Shenandoah, Iowa 51602. I.P.M. LABORATORIES, INC. P.O. Box 300, Locke, NY 13092-0300. 315-497-3129, Biological Pest Management INDIANA BOTANIC GARDENS. RO. Box 5, Hammond Indiana 46325. 219-947- 4040. THE INVISIBLE GARDENERS. 29169 Heathercliff Road, #216-408. Malibu, California 90265-4146. 213-457-6658. JACKSON & PERKINS. PO Box 1028. Medford. Oregon 97501. 8062924769. 1. W. JUNG QUALITY SEED COMPANY. 335 South High Street, Randolph, Wisconsin S3957. AM LEONARD, INC. PO. Box 816, Pique Ohio 45356-0816. Catalog $1.00. LIBERTY SEED COMPANY. PO. Box 806, New Philadelphia, Ohio 44663. 800-541-6022. LYING OFF THE LAND. P.O. Box 2131, Melbourne, Florida 3290Z-2131. A Subtropic Newsletter with Seed Exchange. LIVING TREE CENTER. P.O. Box 10082, Berkeley, California 94709 Historic apple. and pear trees, and other fruit trees and plants. 510-420-1440. MARKET FARM IMPLEMENT. Specializing in Vegetable Crop Machinery. RD 2, Box 206, Friedens, Pennsylvania 15541. McCLURE & ZIMMERMAN. Quality Flowerbulb Brokers. 108 West Winnebago, P.O. Box 368. Friesland, Wisconsin :53935. 414-326-4220. , . -, . .. . . at - . MILLER NURSERIES. Planting guide & catalog free. West Lake Road, Canandaigua New York 14424. NATIVE AMERICAN SEED. 3400 Long Prairie Road. Flower Mound; Texas 75028. 214-539-0534. NATIVE SEEDS/SEARCH. 2509 North Campbell Avenue #325. Tucson. Arizona PLANT FINDERS OF AMERICA. 532 Beau--Mont Ct. Fort Wright, Kentucky 41011. Free infomration Plants of the Southwest 18]2 Second 9t Santa Pe, New Mexico 87S01. Cab P°WELL G+RDENS /Ensas Cit~Z-s got cal Cie • Has many flo ver seed SouneeS R I 816 566 2213ngsville. Missourj 64061 PRAtRI} MOON NURSERY. Price S2.00. t07 43S2 1362163- Winona~ .MI~n RINGER- 99S9 Valley View Road, Eden Prurie MinneSotaNN346358~.goo-654-1o47. C SPBERRY NURSERy & RESouRcE OG. 19060 Manning Trail N. Mad 6°ln2s43 Cr°iv7 Minnesota 55047 972I ROCKRSH GAP HEALTH PRODUCTS. P.O Box 348. Ivy, Virginia 2294S. Hard-to-find ealth & beauty products. 800-768-7587. RONNIGERiS SEED POTATOES. Star Route. Moyie Spnngs, Idaho 83845. Prepsud or ders must be received no later than May I. Write catalog, S2.00 refundable. RENCE NURSERIES. Northern Cli yate Fruit and Nul TreeS RD 2 Po SAVE OUR ECO-SYSTEItfS (SOS). 407 Blair Boulevard. Eugene, Oregon 97402. EzSogy products and gifts. SEED S~VERS }XCI[~NGE Route 3, Box 239 Decorab~k~wa421ol.Free-~nation. SEIDS B>, Idabo City Stage.’ Boi#. Idaho 706* alog S3.00. - ~- j _ . . . . SEEDS OF C+GE 1364 Rufina¢Circle #5 Sof 438-8o8o ev MeXicO - 87504 Ph. S c T 1t 2( V. de Hc pk Ro; 800 WC Sou 474 SHEPHERD’S GARDEN SEEDS. 30 Iren Street, Torrington. Connecticut 0679( 203482-3638. SINDELAR SEEDS. Route 1. Box 109-C Algonaf Iowa 50SI I or their distributors: Bin Soils, R 3, Box 197A, Ogden lowa 50212 or Su per Gro of lowa, P.O. Box l26. Aplington. low 50604. D SONOMA ANTIOUE APPLE NURSER 439S Westside Road, Healdsburg, Cslifomi. asaR ,_ . ._. . SOURCEPOINT ORGANIC SEEDS. 409’ M Road, Paonia, Colorado 81428. CataloE S2.50. ^ 0 SOUTHERN EXPOSURE SEED EX CHANGE. P.O. Box l58. North Garden. Vir ginia 22959. Catalog S3.00. STOKES SEEDS, INC. Box 548, Buffalo New York 14240. Phone 41S6884300. SUNSHINE ORGANIC GARDENS RE SOURCE CENTERZ P.O. Box 5161, Wood land Park, Co!orado 80866. SYNERGY SEEDS. P.O. Box 323, Orleans Califomia 95556. THOMPSON & MORGAN. P.O. Box 1308 lackson. New Jersey 08527. Phon. 201 -363-2225. VERMONT BEAN SEED COMPANY. Garden Lane, Fair HavelL Vennont 05743. WAYSIDE GARDENS. I Garden Lane Hodges. Souffi Carolina 29695-0001. The Complete Garden Catalog. WILDSEED FARMS, INC. 1101 Campo Rosa Road, P.O. Box 308. Eagle Lalu Texas 77434 806848-0078. WORM’S WAY GARDEN SUPPLY. 3151 South Highway 446. Bloomington, Indiana 4740I-9111. Seymour’ 8 Selected Seeds Dept 41, PO Box 1346 Sussex, VA 23884-0346 Vermont Bean Seed co. 71 Garden Ln; Fair Haven, VT 05743 Park Seed co. Cokesbury Rd. PO Box 46 Greenwood, SC 29648-0046 (800)845-3369 Burpee Seed Company PO Box 5114 Warminster, PA 18974-4818 (800)888-1447 Abundant Life Seed Foundation PO Box 772 Port Townsend, WA- 98368 (206)385-5660 De Giorvi Seed co 6011 N St. Omaha, NE 68117 (402)731-3901 Garden City Seeds 1324 Red Crow Rd. Victor, MT 59875 (406)961-4837 Nichols Garden Nursery 1190 N. Pacific Highway Albany, OR 97321 (503)-928-9280 Ronniger’s Seed Potatoes Star Route 80 Moyie Springs, ID 83845 Shepard’s Garden Seeds 30 Irene St. Torrinqton, CT 06793 (408)335-6910 Tomato Growers,Supply PO Box 2237 (813)7681119 Worm’s Way 3151 S. Highway 446 Bloomington, IS 47401 (800)274-9676 Brittingham Plant Farms Dept OG25 - PO Box 2538 n-37 Salisbury, MD 21802 t (410)749-5153 1 - Totally Tomatoes Dept 22, PO Box 1626 Augusta, GA 30903 R.H. Shunway Seedsman PO Box 1-NC Graniteville SC 29829 (803)663-977I Peaceable Kingdom School PO Box 2209 Grass Valley, CA 95945 (916)272-47-69 Bountiful Gardens 18001 Shafer Ranch Rd Willits, CA 95490 (707)459-6410 The Cooks Garden PO Box 53528 Londonderry, VT 05148 (802)824-3400 Filaree Productions RR 2 Box 162 Okanogan, WA 98840 (509)422-6940 Johnny’s Selected Seeds 310 Foss Hill Rd - DeDt 202 Albion, ME 04910-973l (207)437-4301 Pinetree Garden Seeds PO Box 300 Route 100 New Gloucester, ME 04260 (207)926-3400 Seeds of Change PO Box 15700 Santa Fe, NM 87506 (505)983-8956 Stokes Seeds Inc Box 548 Buffalo, NY 14240 (905)688-4300 Gardener’s Supply Companv Dept COG15 - l-28 Intervale Rd Burlington, VT 05401-2850 (802)863-1700 Peaceful Valley Farm Supply PO Box 2209 BOG Grass Vallev, CA 95945 (916)272-47B9 J.W. Jung Seed co. r;’ : Box A3645 Randolph, WI 53957 ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:07:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle etc. >My wife was enthusiastic about sprouting earlier this year (less so >now that winter is upon us) - all the usual seeds, beans etc - but we've >not yet tried wheatgrass. Anne Wigmore's book was so helpful that I >tried to call up her website(s): a couple of search items referred only >to health resorts, but I was unable to raise the Anne Wigmore Institute >- kept getting weird error messages including, on one occasion, This >Site is Forbidden! What has she done to annoy Bill Gates so ? Is it >just my server (Cable & Wireless) or have other subscribers also had >problems ? Tony N-S. Can you share some URL's with us, Tony? One thing that has already come to fore in this recent look into the 'sprouting scene': many people lack the knowledge, energy, and conficence to sow and reap what themselves, even if it's just a 7 day season on a windowsill flat. For that reason, yes, there are a lot of 'wheat grass juice with rejuvelac chaser' health clubs all over the world (but particularly in the warmer climates.) -Allan Balliett =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:18:38 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Allan, RE: your letter and replies from Rob Johnston. I also wrote an email letter to Johnny's and got a reply that he will be replying to me soon. He never did. Michael ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F67.D792CAE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Johnny's GE Seeds Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there a listing of 'acceptable' seed sources? I currently buy from = Pinetree Garden and Fedco, both fairly Northern companies. Would like to = find companies more within my climate (tx). SSE is great but buying a = garden full of seed one packet at a time from a member here and a mem = there is expensive and time consuming. What is SSE's take on the recent information we've been handed? I = understand that Mars candy company owned a big chunk of Seeds Of Change = and recently bought the company totally. What changes do you expect from = that? Is this true? thanks martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgIRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAFgAAAFJFOiBKb2hubnkncyBHRSBTZWVkcwDBBgEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgAD AAsAGQABAAMAAwEBIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwALABQAKgADACcBAQmAAQAhAAAANjdGRkYwOTQ1MkJC RDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEA+QYBA5AGAHwFAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAA AAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AADBfSGaT74BHgBwAAEAAAAWAAAAUkU6IEpv aG5ueSdzIEdFIFNlZWRzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb5PmiF9lPD/aLtSEdKxEQDA8CloIQAAHgAe DAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAABmbHlsb0B0eGN5YmVyLmNvbQAAAAMABhC7GR3m AwAHEMoBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJU1RIRVJFQUxJU1RJTkdPRkFDQ0VQVEFCTEVTRUVEU09VUkNF Uz9JQ1VSUkVOVExZQlVZRlJPTVBJTkVUUkVFR0FSREVOQU5ERkVEQ08sQk9USEZBSVJMWU5PUlRI RVJOQ09NAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAYwIAAF8CAAD5AgAATFpGdc+GLMR3AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOCaArA c2V0MCAHE00CgH0KgAjIIDsJbzLMNTUCgAqBdWMAUAsDBmMAQQtgbmcxMDNSMwxgbG4CIGULpiAS SQQgdGgEkGUgYRQgbAQAdAuAZyBvyGYgJwDQY2UFMAGg8GxlJyAPsAmAF2AIYZEW0HM/IBUwIGMI cIMJcAIwbHkgYnUZADkDUiBQC4APwAnRIEfXCxEJ8BXAbhegRgmABaC6LBkQbxVwGVALcHIY8d5O CREVgQOgBaBtCrADANEHkC4gVwhgbBegFfDyaxWwdG8ZUAuAF6Act/4gBGAVoQPwFXALgB8gGQBW YxXwAMB0FbAoDNApox1ABgBTRSAEACAJwbcgYBkRIcJ5FjIV0GcaVL5mFFADIBZxF3MUgSAKsP5j HeAFQCGxFdAWIAeAGVTvFdAHgAbQBJAgFYQawSWTYxVlIVFleHAJ8ACQdk8mVCTzBaAAgHVtFjEu ewqiCoBXD4AFQCFRIREn3RVRYR3hAiAVYiAJcBbQqwIwIUBuAhByIFFpKwH+dxdAKBEl4BqBD4Aa wAmA+xgwGGB1LXEPoAGQKFIp4n5ND5EYcBqxIAEcwxkAb+Z3FJAmkmJpFlAPcC3wXmsWYgZgCYAE IE8WgEM9LVFnJlQrdBjyCGBnaL8FQCsyL6YeEAGQI0B5HUGvKeIPcTIxBCBkHiB5CGD9J5NjBUAZ Yy6iLbEVUiFR+xnwClA/KXQuoTEQD0Apg3sAwBxBYSl0ObgLMBXwM+42AUATgAFAcANgIHA2gAsp dBBxADyAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzCg6RiHmU++AUAACDCg6RiHmU++AQsA AIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUA AAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAA AAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAAAwANNP03AAC5Jw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0-- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F67.F9FBB100@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OOPS, answered my question in the next download, THANKS! [Martha Wells] ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgARAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAJQAAAFJFOiBSZWxpYWJsZSBTZWVkIGFuZCBTdXBwbHkgU291cmNlcwC2 DAEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgADAAsAGQA7AAMAPQEBIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwALABkAHAADAB4BAQmAAQAh AAAANkJGRkYwOTQ1MkJCRDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEABAcBA5AGANwDAAAhAAAACwACAAEA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AABw90OaT74BHgBw AAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFJlbGlhYmxlIFNlZWQgYW5kIFN1cHBseSBTb3VyY2VzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAG+T5pD7pTw/2y7UhHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAS AAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQl8WFcgMABxA6AAAAHgAIEAEAAAA7AAAAT09QUyxB TlNXRVJFRE1ZUVVFU1RJT05JTlRIRU5FWFRET1dOTE9BRCxUSEFOS1NNQVJUSEFXRUxMUwAAAgEJ EAEAAADfAAAA2wAAABwBAABMWkZ1Gw+x43cACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBzZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO 9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8yNWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzMykMYGxuAiBlC6YgT6BP UFMsIABxdwSQQQmAIG15IHEKUHMUdGkCICALgCB0aBRlIBYgeAVAZG93Em4JAGFkFxBUSEHwTktT IQqiCoQKgQwxGCBbTQrAGLBhIFfgZWxsc10DMBUQChFNAUBpAUARQG90BZB0cRCEMTYgCuMKgBIB AAEesAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwIFNmMZpPvgFAAAgwIFNmMZpPvgELAACA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAA AAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAA AwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2 hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4A Q4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAA AAMADTT9NwAAw6M= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0-- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F69.05D8B080@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: Garden Supply online Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.gardeners.com/actionupdates.html Gardeners Supply has a fairly informative page up on terminator technology and other bioengineering seed at the url above. Even though it's a catalog supply, overall they put out a lot of good information onsite. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih4RAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAFQAAAEdhcmRlbiBTdXBwbHkgb25saW5lAKMHAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcCAAMA CwAhAB0AAwAnAQEggAMADgAAAM8HAgADAAsAHwAyAAMAOgEBCYABACEAAAA3MkZGRjA5NDUyQkJE MjExQjExMTAwQzBGMDI5NjgyMQD1BgEDkAYAoAQAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAA AAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwEfLT5tPvgEeAHAAAQAAABUAAABHYXJkZW4g U3VwcGx5IG9ubGluZQAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvk+bT8uU8P9zu1IR0rERAMDwKWghAAAeAB4M AQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEgAAAGZseWxvQHR4Y3liZXIuY29tAAAAAwAGECriuWgD AAcQ3QAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhUVFA6Ly9XV1dHQVJERU5FUlNDT00vQUNUSU9OVVBEQVRFU0hU TUxHQVJERU5FUlNTVVBQTFlIQVNBRkFJUkxZSU5GT1JNQVRJVkVQQUdFVVBPTlRFUk1JTkFUT1JU RUNITk8AAAAAAgEJEAEAAACJAQAAhQEAAO0BAABMWkZ1UNYqtXcACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBz ZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8yNWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzMycM YAlQC7UgaAJAcDrILy93FwAuZwsRCfBJBJBzLgWgbS8A0HSCaQIgdXBkYXQHkFouFpBtCVAV4G4C IGX3CqIKhBn2RxdWBgAYgAtQinkWgGEEIGEgZgtwbnIbsQuAAhByAMAYQHa0ZSAKsGcdUBiAIAIg /iAYwBzwC4AYsAWxGMAPcFsZcAkAZxvAAHBkHeB0smgEkCBiGFAJ8GcLgPcJ4AUQFXAgD7AJgBwQ BUC/H9EdsBxwHBAG4B1ALhm6lkUdQB4BaAhgZ2gcoPR0JxwCYxiwB0AfQCEA7RuDLB3gHUByB0AD IB/R+RvAcHUFQAhgBUAcIAkA4SZRZiBnbwRwHKgd8f8CIACQGMAiZQDAACAPgBm1XxUQAUARQB/A BZB0EIQxFjYZtBIBACvAAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMECQWxWbT74BQAAI MECQWxWbT74BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGF AAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAAB AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAJuQ= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080-- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: cvinson@mindspring.com To: Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: <001801be4f9c$752f9e20$4ae145cf@hcv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some additions to list. These are companies/organizations I buy from that have stated policies re organic and untreated seed: 1. Sand Hill Preservation Center 1878 230th Street Calamus, Iowa 52729 2. Fox Hollow Seed Company, (Pennsylvania) 3. Heirloom Seed Company, Elizabeth, PA 4. Garden State Heirloom Seed Society 5. Bountiful Gardens (Calif.) 6. Seeds of Texas (College Station, Texas) 7. Redwood City (California) There are lots more. Will send addresses if someone is going to keep a list. Catharine/Atlanta -------------------------- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:03:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: OFMA GE Policy Message-ID: <4AAEBA60B9A6B5998525670D00631EF8.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> trying to see if anyone's awake out here eh, Allan? What still no crushing mob to sign onto the Tori Amos list? Happy Candlemas/Ground Hog/St.Brigid day (yesterday)!! JS ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:01:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds >Dear Allan, > > RE: your letter and replies from Rob Johnston. > > I also wrote an email letter to Johnny's and got a reply that he will be >replying to me soon. He never did. Michael Then I guess I should be grateful for what I received, shouldn't I? :-) -Allan igg@igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:10:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Johnny's GE Seeds >Is there a listing of 'acceptable' seed sources? I currently buy from >Pinetree Garden and Fedco, both fairly Northern companies. Would like to >find companies more within my climate (tx). SSE is great but buying a >garden full of seed one packet at a time from a member here and a mem >there is expensive and time consuming. FEDCO, I understand, will remain a 'safe' seedsource. I do not know about Pinetree, but it is often recommended. SSE, well, here's where 'drifting,' etc becomes a great concern, IMHO. >What is SSE's take on the recent information we've been handed? I >understand that Mars candy company owned a big chunk of Seeds Of Change >and recently bought the company totally. What changes do you expect from >that? Is this true? >thanks >martha Martha - Steven Badger, president of Seeds of Change (SoC), is a member of the family that owns the Mars candy company. SoC hasn't been making a lot of money recently, as you might imagine, but both their goals and the expense of their outreach programs have remained high. For this reason, the principals at SoC found the 'take over' by M&M to be just another method of meeting their goals. Their goals, however, are not monetary, their goals revolve around promoting biodiversity why making small scale organic growing a practical endeavor. Their recent entrance into the organic food market is one way they hope to more effectively achieve their goals. Apparently NOONE IS marketing products with as high of content of small farm produced organic ingredients as theirs (everything is certified except the salt and the water and they are working on finding certified sources for both of these.) Founding members Howard Shapiro and Al Kapuler still 'run' SoC. As far as I know, no candy salespeople are making decisions at SoC. I still trust SoC, but my opinion may be biased: they just donated a 50lb bag of Austrian Winter Peas to my gardening project. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:29 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. -Allan igg@igg.com >Some additions to list. These are companies/organizations I buy from that >have stated policies re organic and untreated seed: > >1. Sand Hill Preservation Center > 1878 230th Street > Calamus, Iowa 52729 >2. Fox Hollow Seed Company, (Pennsylvania) >3. Heirloom Seed Company, Elizabeth, PA >4. Garden State Heirloom Seed Society >5. Bountiful Gardens (Calif.) >6. Seeds of Texas (College Station, Texas) >7. Redwood City (California) > >There are lots more. Will send addresses if someone is going to keep a list. > >Catharine/Atlanta >-------------------------- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: cvinson@mindspring.com To: Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:13:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4fa9$3e047760$862256d1@hcv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allan wrote: For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. ----------- Will send addresses in next couple of days. One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that very, very few seed companies (or organizations composed of seed savers) grow all its own seed. Even SSE is dependent on its members' word that the seed they list as having available through SSE is grown without pesticides, herbicides, chemical treatments, etc. Making a quick scan of the list of companies in the list that was posted I know of at least one company that does grow its own seed....and literally poisons the ground in which its grown IMHO. This company also advocates *heavy* use of herbicides to prepare the soil to receive its seeds! This is irresponsible stewardship in my mind and I will not buy seed from them. Yet, this same company says it has a policy again GE seed. Does that make the company "kosher"? Not in my opinion. What I am trying to say is that the issues are interwoven and complex. I am disappointed to see that Johnny's *appears* to be leaving the door open to carrying GE products in the future, but at the same time, I believe Johnny's is being straightforward in its response. And the company raises a good point that the "policing" of who is selling GE versus who isn't selling GE products is nigh onto impossible. Catharine ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:56:21 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources >Allan wrote: > >For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. > >I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC >seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. > >----------- >Will send addresses in next couple of days. > >One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that very, very few >seed companies (or organizations composed of seed savers) grow all its own >seed. Even SSE is dependent on its members' word that the seed they list as >having available through SSE is grown without pesticides, herbicides, >chemical treatments, etc. Making a quick scan of the list of companies in >the list that was posted I know of at least one company that does grow its >own seed....and literally poisons the ground in which its grown IMHO. This >company also advocates *heavy* use of herbicides to prepare the soil to >receive its seeds! This is irresponsible stewardship in my mind and I will >not buy seed from them. Yet, this same company says it has a policy again GE >seed. Does that make the company "kosher"? Not in my opinion. > >What I am trying to say is that the issues are interwoven and complex. I am >disappointed to see that Johnny's *appears* to be leaving the door open to >carrying GE products in the future, but at the same time, I believe Johnny's >is being straightforward in its response. And the company raises a good >point that the "policing" of who is selling GE versus who isn't selling GE >products is nigh onto impossible. > >Catharine Dear Catharine - Pardon my bluntness: there is no merit in being straightforward about supporting GE. It doesn't matter one whit who else is selling GE seeds when we discuss Johnny's support of gene tech. What's important is that we've identified this Trojan Horse; we now need to mark it with a big black flag or something and continue to search out these other weak spots in seed sourcing. Why so coy about the seed company that "and literally poisons the ground"? The purpose of the prelim list is for everyone to report their knowledge and experience with the names on the list. Johnny's was on that list until I took them off (they go on another list.) Please tell us who is using inappropriate techniques to produce seed. The Johnny's thing is v. scarey. Everywhere I look behind the scenes in Sustainable Ag, I see big envelopes of Johnny's seeds. I would hope that Rob Johnston would just back off from GE. Since it looks like he won't (or can't!) we need to make certain that all growers and organic food customers know that the company has expressed an openess for GE. (Better to do this now than to wait until they DO start selling GE seed. I mean, without being informed by someone who knows better, how would most growers every know that Johnny's was carrying GE seeds? Because they read the little icons? As one who spent most the last 10 years thinking that Johnny's is a fully-Organic seedsupplier, I can't rely on everyone to educate themselves. Everyone wants to trust companies like Johnny's. -Allan igg@igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:07:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd really like the company listed in College Station Texas, practically in my back yard! And, I think Catherine implied that at least Johnny's, by being up front, has given us the choice of whether to buy from them or not. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0UAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAJQAAAFJFOiBSZWxpYWJsZSBTZWVkIGFuZCBTdXBwbHkgU291cmNlcwC2 DAEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgADAA4ABwAMAAMA/wABIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwAOAAIABgADAPQAAQmAAQAh AAAAQ0ZGRkYwOTQ1MkJCRDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEAFQcBA5AGAHgEAAAhAAAACwACAAEA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AABYHsmwT74BHgBw AAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFJlbGlhYmxlIFNlZWQgYW5kIFN1cHBseSBTb3VyY2VzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAG+T7DJHpTw/9C7UhHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAS AAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQHjntYgMABxC5AAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASURSRUFM TFlMSUtFVEhFQ09NUEFOWUxJU1RFRElOQ09MTEVHRVNUQVRJT05URVhBUyxQUkFDVElDQUxMWUlO TVlCQUNLWUFSREFORCxJVEhJTktDQVRIRVJJTkVJTVBMSUVEVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAE0BAABJAQAA iwEAAExaRnXXgebmdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxNNAoB9CoAIyCA7CW8yzDU1AoAK gXVjAFALAwZjAEELYG5nMTAz0jMMYGxuAiBlC6cKsWEKgEknZCAJcAdAbAB5IGxpa2UgdFZoFnAF oG0KsG4WInNqdAmAIAuAIAhQFgBlSmcWcFMBkHRpAiAgAFRleGFzLCBwtnIA0BigYxXzF8FtFiCi YgDQayB5CxEhFTToQW5kGUBJFoELgBqw/kMYkBagBRAUkBewFvAWQPcXkRaQGJAgHZEYIBkgBUBQ Sm9obhcgJxkxYgUaYWULgGcgdXAgHwNRAjAZQA+ABCBnaXbPCfAfcAQgFpNobxmwFnBwb2Ygdxag HHIWgG/9GnB1FiADUhaCIvAFsRRw/HQuCuMKhAqAAMAAIA+ACxU0EHEAJaAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMA ERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwAOYPE7BPvgFAAAgwAOYPE7BPvgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4 LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAztU= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0-- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902032035.PAA08034@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 15:13:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I, too, have profound misgivings about GE seeds and all the rest. Many years ago I met a sparkling-eyed elder of the Huichol people in the Sierra Madre Mountains of west Mexico. Don Jose Matsuwa -- then 106 years old -- told me that he had used a philosophical key to keep himself in balance throughout his many long years of hard work in hot fields growing corn and then at night around the village fire as the people's respected ceremonialist and healer (with his wife Dona Josefa). Don Jose's key: "Watch your intention, then pay attention." So one must ask, what do we know of the intentions -- spoken and unspoken -- of the transnational corporations steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, and such? That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. It is murky beyond comfort. Don Jose said said the second part of the key was to "pay attention." See what the results are. On that basis you can make a sound evaluation of your materials and practices. And on that basis, I'd like another 25 years minimum to pay careful attention to the genetic (Uranian-Aquarian) impulse. I wholeheartedly recommend this relatively brief era of consideration to all GE scientists, businesspeople, farmers, and consumers -- and also specifically to Johnny's Seeds. We are part of the Sacred Hoop of Life, and in a full-life relationship with all parts of it. This decade -- over and over -- respected spiritual elders of this Turtle Island continent have warned that if we continue to think and act as if we are Masters and Dominators of the natural world, our relationship with the Earth will fail. So it is. In the way of the Huichol -- and many other Native nations -- the careful trial of such new cultural and agricultural elements -- would run for Seven Generations. In this way the whole of the Sacred Hoop is respected and made strong. Megwiich, Steven M. P.S. If someone has time and energy and wants to forward this Down East to Johnny's, you're welcome to do it. Much obliged. I gotta go. "You never change anything by fighting the existing. To change something, build a new model and make the existing obsolete." - Buckminster Fuller: ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902032058.MAA06957@ns2.vphos.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:53:32 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: BD SEEDS RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To the List: For practical purposes the backyard BD grower can skirt the GE issue entirely, as Allan suggested, by patronizing BD seed sources. Aurora Farm, Turtle Tree Seeds, Sharon Carson, and the soon-to-be operating [I hope] BD seed exchange, cutely named the Sowing Circle and [I hope again] enjoying some support from the BDA. For commercial growers and CSA growers, it may be, however, that the above sources will not be able to supply the quantities needed. Again: Turtle Tree Seeds Copake Village Copake, NY 12516 Aurora Biodynamic Farm 3492 Phillips Road Creston, B C V0B 1G2 aurora@kootenay.com www.kootenay.com/~aurora (250) 428-4404 Sharon Carson RT 2 Box 277 Delmar DE 19940 (302) 846-2571 BD Sowing Circle Amy Bohn 433 Williams Creek Road Oakville, WA 98568 (360) 273-8702 amybohn@olywa.net Woody ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <008601be4fb9$9f450fc0$1e6d6ccb@default> From: "Gwenda Robb" To: Subject: Re: Allan Chadwick Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:10:25 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a delightful book - Enchanted garden-Alan Chadwick's organic method of gardening, by Tom Cuthbertson. Published in America as Alan Chadwick's Enchanted garden.1978 The charming and unusual content is presented in a story format as from the perspective of a rabbit (the aussie farmers will love that!) out of print but well worth chasing up. Warm regards Gwenda Hi Allan! > >Are there any pearls of wisdom that you can share with us about the >conference you attended? I am trying to remember the connection between the >Jeavons (biointensive gardening/farming) and the biodynamic methods...and >the differences too. Wasn't there some mention on this awhile back? Could >you elaborate on this a bit? > >Julie - Alan Chadwick taught biodynamics at Santa Cruz and a few other gardens in the 70's. Although he had worked with Rudolf Steiner as a child, the milieu at Santa Cruz (a Univeristy which contained prominent faculty members who were demonstrably hostile to even the IDEA of non-chemical farming) made it prudent to trim back the tools he would use to invoke fertility there. (He did not use the preps in America, but he did discuss them in private with some of his students.) His immense knowledge of horticulture, coupled with a thorough understanding of composting and cultivation methods, allowed him to create a truly remarkable abundance ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:40:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources >I'd really like the company listed in College Station Texas, practically >in my back yard! >And, I think Catherine implied that at least Johnny's, by being up front, >has given us the choice of whether to buy from them or not. > >martha That's the secondary issue here, martha, to make certain that every grower of Organic food be aware that Johnny's is open to 'offering' GE seed and to make certain that every consumer of Organic food be aware that their grower could be purchasing seeds from a source that sells GE seed. Here in Shepherdstown we have a man who sells at farmer's market every Sunday. Years ago, an ambitious extension agent encouraged him to get organic certification because 'Organic produce brings more money.' He became a certified organic grower for a few years and honked his horn about it quite loudly. Ultimately, however, he discovered two things: the first was that he didn't have the sort of intention/attention that is required to grow food organically; the second was that the majority of people in this county are not willing to pay more for organic produce. In a very short time, since neither the productivity nor the profit was there for him, he moved out of organics and dropped his certification. He wasn't as noisey about this, however. To this day, most people will tell you "Buy from ol' So-and-So, he's Organic." But he aint Organic. He ain't even close to Organic. A similar situation occurs with the Fresh Fields and related food chains. Only a portion of the products and produce they carry is organic and yet repeatedly I run into people who believe that what they are buying there is "100% Organic." The truth is, you have to scurtinize the labeling of EVERYTHING to make certain that your getting something that is up to your personal standards. As always, a Safe Food supply requires eternal vigilance. In this case, I think it will be to everyone's benefit to make sure that everyone we know who grows or eats is aware that the formerly Organic farmering mainstay, Johnny's Selected Seeds, has made a public statment that they are open to GE seeds in the near future. (And, more to the point: because of how their business is structured, they may actually have no choice in the matter....) -Allan ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:42:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Hunting for the deer bladder Dr Steiner indicated that we ought to take a (Rotwild) red deer (male) bladder (stag bladder) into which we are to put dry, moistened Yarrows and, in spring, hang this bladder (as full as possible) underneath the overhang of our roof or in a place (shadowy) where it cannot be attacked by birds, mice and other rodents. Well, it is not my intention to discuss this part of the preparation making process but rather in the procurement of the deer bladder. And here, my friends, I really hit rock bottom. I think I reported to you how difficult it is to get high quality cow parts (mesentery, horns, small intestine etc.). It is much more difficult to get a good stag bladder. Now, imagine, in the days when Dr. Steiner gave his lectures (1924) many or most farms were surrounded by or included forests and fields in which a great variety of animals could live such as foxes, rabbits, hair, deer, squirrels and so forth. Farmers were familiar with the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly (life) rhythms of all these animals. The deer does not simply walk into the field(s) at any time of the day or night. It has a very special rhythm - like the sea. Coming and going. Observing. Eating brefly, regurgitating for hours. Picking herbs here, a bit of a bud there - here a leaf and there some grass. Moving, smelling, pissing, standing, sleeping - in constant motion. And so, I went a hunting. Gun, red jacket, boots, very thick underwear (it was minus 20 degrees Celsius (Finland). You cannot simply go out there and shoot a deer. You have to know what you are going for. You are constantly on the alert. You walk. YOu stand. You look. You listen. You wait - sometimes for a few hours, somewhere in a bush or in a ditch. You have become the shadow of the deer. When he moves, you move too. When he stands, you watch. And then, you crawl - just a bit and wait again. And nothing, absolutely nothing is happening. For hours. You may go home - and so have I - with a feeling of vast soul expansion. You see white, you see stars, you are outside yourselves. The tension inside you is there - you know that, at any time, you may have to shoot. To kill. To cut. To saw. To drain blood. To take out the innards and to carry a dead animal. You are standing at the threshhold of life and death. You are a guardian. You ought to be wise....! Deer bladders are very, very difficult to obtain. I went hunting for three days and I've walked many, many miles. I've spent hours on end in a tiny hut, at temperatures way below freezing - equipped with night vision, a candle by my side. Clad in army fatigue.......................... And now, I am of the opinion that I am on the right track. We must potentize our preparations. We must make highest quality preparations. Preparations that contain the wisdom of those who care for the environment and not simply stag bladders of deer that come from road kill or from hunting parties. We cannot let anybody else do the hunting for us. That simply is not fair and does not support the BD process. With the hunting goes the care for the forest, the observations of the trees and the plants. With the hunting goes the careful study of all the animals that live in our forest(s). They have rhythms. Deer come and go at intervals of two to two and a half hours. They reappear in the same area in intervals of half a day. They do not run around like wild dogs. They follow etheric streams. They are light gatherers. Highly sensitive. Very attentive, knowledgeable, fast and as shy as shadows. The deer is a great teacher. He teaches us in great depth how the forest and the land must be integrated. Without a wholesome integration of forest and farm-land: no proper farming. Without a proper farming no wholesome food. Without wholesome food a mankind that cannot think properly. Yet, we are slowly approaching this awful abyss: fewer and fewer people know how to think. Ferdinand ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F9E.FBF7CA20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources (and on down the line) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:59:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F9E.FC00F1E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F9E.FC00F1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Allan: I understand what you're saying, also. Can't sit on the fence on this = one, but I'm trying! When I have extra to market, I know our local = produce stand will buy everything I can haul in. He has a room carries = only organic produce, herbs and fruit. HOWEVER, the last time I asked = about selling extra last year, he commented that he was beginning to = grow his own (this is a huge company, Scarmado's in College Station Tx). = He said that without constant vigilance on his, the marketer's part, he = couldn't be certain that even though the certification says OG, the = grower could have filled out his bins with ordinary produce to round out = the offer. since OG does command more money, even buying produce and = reoffering it would make a profit if that were the case.=20 (I had hauled my certifications for him to put on file, and he said, OH, = I don't need yours, I found a worm in your broccoli.) Uh, thanks, I = think! I STILL SAY, I never understood why people who do nothing to their crops = in the way of poisons, chemicals etc, constantly have to prove it. When = are the poisoneers going to have to supply information on the crap they = use? Off topic Y2K and hybrid seed. Interesting note in this day of the = Terminator news. The Mining Company recently issued a few pages that = say, ok, the lights will be on next year. BUT, the food industry could = be hit hard, as most major cities only have reserves for a 72 hour = period. What happens is hybrid seed isn't as viable as OP seed, and = pretty much needs to be resupplied annually. (Thank you, Monsanto.) If there is a break in that chain of events, serious shortages could = occur. I'm not clapping in glee here, but maybe this is the eye-opener = that people are going to need.=20 part of the reason OG is still not mainstream is the cost factor. It's = too costly for corporate ag America to grow corn by the tonnage in = organically managed systems. Wait till they find out it's too costly NOT = to. 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What if the etheric of our plants will be strong/pure/dense/healthy enough to whitstand cross pollination with GE plants ? I am suggesting combating this technological terrorism with a spiritual approach. Angela Medeiros ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990203182520.00918500@pop.igc.apc.org> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:25:20 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Lloyd, At 05:55 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi igg. Thanks for all of the good advice. I didn't have time to reply >last week. You mentioned a cosmic pipe that used a drawing of a printed >circuit, a photo of an Aztec crystal skull and a bobby pin. I think >SECRETS OF THE SOIL said that too. I'd sure like to know the details of >how that is put in the pipe. > You said prayer may work just as well as any other subtle energy >method. Do you know how prayer can be tested scientifically by us email >subscribers? I don't have faith that my prayers would work as well as >many people's prayers. Do I have to bolster my faith? Have you seen >www.Neil.Slade.net? He talks about research that shows benefits of >collective prayer. I was wondering if subscribers might like to ask >other subscribers for prayers on a particular concern maybe at a >particular time. Art Bell seemed to get very good results with that for >bringing rain to needy areas, etc. What I'd like others to help me pray >for at 6 pm Feb. 6 or any time is clarity on how to be successful with >our organic farming this year. Prayer is generally placed in the realm of religion. In order for science to acknowledge the existence and effectiveness of prayer it first must discover a physical mechanism whereby non-physical (or spirit) energy and information can be brought into the physical realm. Rudolph Steiner's theories and observations would lend evidence to support such a discovery but Steiner wrote in the early part of this century before quantum theory became well accepted. The ORMUS theory postulates that there is a state of matter which can move from the physical to the non-physical and back. It is like having atoms with one leg in the non-physical and two legs in the physical. Under certain conditions these atoms can be induced to have two legs in the non-physical and one in the physical, in which case, they disappear and loose all weight. This phenomena is graphed at: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/Patents/figur012.gif According to ORMUS theory, the atoms in the powder which is being weighed are dropping to another space-time sheet. There are strong indications that the ORMUS elements are involved with the biological cell components which make decisions and perform computations. A couple of scientists have postulated that these cell components make decisions by throwing a problem into the infinite realm of all possible universes and retrieve the solution almost instantaneously. A more elaborate discussion of this idea is available at: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/ORMUS/ormus.htm If this is so, then we may have identified the mechanism which connects the physical and non-physical realms. While the mere knowledge of the existence of such a connecting mechanism does not identify the properties of the non-physical realm, it does provide a starting place for making the scientific case for the existence of mind independent of matter. > Have you seen any of these sites on ormus elements? >http://209.17.143.141/ormus/ORMUS/ormus2.htm, >http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/penrose1.html, >http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/whatisit.htm > They say the ormus elements are responsible for biological growth and >nerve functions, that they are superconducting and paramagnetic. One of >the sites says how to separate ormus elements from others, but then they >have to be protected from sunlight, etc. I thought it might be better to >leave them in their source material. Volcanic rock and limestone are >supposed to have a lot of ormus. So I'm thinking of stirring the ground >rockdust in water like a BD prep, stirring and reversing, and applying >it to the soil. Do you know anything about that? The process of conversion from the m-state (ORMUS state) to metal is facilitated by exposure to sunlight. Though sunlight does not complete this conversion, it is one component of the process. For this reason it is recommended that the pure ORMUS materials not be exposed to direct sunlight. Our working hypothesis in this regard is that the ORMUS elements, being superconductors, can store a considerable amount of energy. When this energy storage capacity is exceeded, the Meissner field, which helps to maintain these elements in the ORMUS state, collapses. On the occasion of this collapse the ORMUS elements may convert to energy and disappear in a flash of light or they may simply drop to the metallic state. Since all of the atoms in a pile of m-state material would not be exposed to sunlight evenly this Meissner collapse would not proceed evenly and so one could expect a variation in the state of the material depending on where it was in the pile. There is a great deal we don't know about these materials. Since concentrated ORMUS elements can "disappear in a flash of light", we felt it was prudent to suggest that they be kept from direct exposure to light. There does seem to be a concentration or purity component to this phenomena. It also seems to relate more to the m-state rhodium than to the other ORMUS elements. Though the ORMUS elements are abundant in any salt flat, one does not see these salt flats disappearing in a flash of light as can happen with the purified ORMUS materials. Alchemists claim that salt acts as a sort of keeper for the alchemical materials. We have noticed that this is true of the ORMUS materials as well. The sodium in salt, in particular seem to provide a "comfy space" for the ORMUS atoms to "hang out". Generally, unbound ORMUS elements in water will levitate out of the water as the water moves across the Earth's magnetic field. It is fairly clear that all of the ORMUS elements in water do not levitate out but some of them do. I believe that we will find that there are ways to use biodynamic and paramagnetic theories to create conditions favorable to the concentration of the ORMUS elements in the soil and to reduce their loss to leaching. This entire field of inquiry is new to modern science, though it may not be new historically. Any work done in this field, at this time, is virtually guaranteed to be cutting edge science. There is startling evidence that the ORMUS materials were known in ancient times. Sir Laurence Gardner, an internationally known sovereign and chivalric genealogist for the royal families of Europe has found amazing evidence among the ancient records of the royal families that these materials were known in ancient Egypt, Persia and Israel. There is a transcription of one of Gardner's recent lectures on this subject at: http://www.icom.net/~nexus/starfire1.html In this lecture Gardner suggests that Moses, working at an Egyptian temple/laboratory on Mount Serâbît in the Sinai peninsula, turned the golden calf into a white powder of ORMUS gold. He also suggests that this is the material which was the focus of the sages and kings of the time. He links these materials to the Grail, manna, the Philosopher's Stone, soma, and many other ancient things. I am fairly certain that as we look into these ancient connections we will find many that relate to the use of these materials in agriculture. > The chapter of SECRETS OF THE SOIL on Flanagan's studies said the >best shape for stirring is ovoid with a width to length ratio of 1 to >the sq. rt. of 2, i.e. 1 to 1.414. That produces the strongest vortex. >Does anyone use an ovoid spray tank? Joe and I are thinking of making >one of fiberglass. I also tho't it might be fine to just cut a spherical >tank in half and add about a foot or so long cylindrical midsection. >Joe's looking to find a spherical tank. But I suppose a cylindrical tank >might be good enuf. What do you think? Vortex action seems to be related to the ORMUS materials in several ways. The physicist Tony Smith associates the Compton Radius Vortex to the psychic subatomic particle observations of Theosophists Charles Leadbeater and Annie Besant. He uses their illustration of the Anu for his illustration of the Compton Radius Vortex. See: http://tony.ai/Sidharth.htm Several physicists have proposed that sonoluminescence is a form of fusion energy. Sonoluminescence occurs in water which is vibrated with high frequency sound. One company claims that they have a water heating device which uses mechanically created vortexes to produce over-unity amounts of hot water. You can read about this at: http://www.mv.com/ipusers/zeropoint/IEHTML/FEATURE/FSETS/popeset.html I believe that this device uses resonance coupling to the ORMUS materials in the water to extract energy from non-physical realms. > We're thinking of using mechanical stirring for the BD preps, etc. >The book said other farmers do that. Do you think that works as well as >stirring by hand? Joe tho't of hooking several pumps together on the PTO >and having a hose from each one going into the tank. At the end of the >hose would be a tee and a valve to make the water flow one way, then the >other. I don't know how we'd control the valve yet. We assume that this >would create a vortex in the tank as quickly as would a mechanical >stirring device and that the reversing of the flow to make chaos would >be easier. He was thinking of using about 1 and a half inch diameter >hose and tees, maybe four of them in all. That'd give quite a bit of >cross-sectional area, like a paddle would. Would you or anyone else have >experience along these lines? > The book also talked about "singing to clay" or something like that. >It mentioned a farmer who would sing a note into a bucket or barrel >while stirring and reversing water before applying to soil or crops, I >think. Do you know if that's helpful? And how the note is determined? >You said the sonic bloom type of spraying isn't needed bekuz the stomata >of the leaves are open anyway in the mornings [and evenings?]. But the >book implied that the high pitch sounds are helpful to the mitochondria >of the plant cells where energy is made. It said the mitochondria are >tuned to about 25 cycles per second and that bird song of about 5000 cps >are a harmonic of that. Also, if birdsong in the mornings and evenings >are what open the stomata, a lot of our ground is not very near to trees >where birds usually sit, so we tho't we might need to use the high pitch >anyway. Or do the stomata stay open then even without the birdsongs? And >is there a cheap source of the gibberillin that you know of? Are there >plants that have it in concentrated form, or whatever? A magnetic vortex can be applied to water and this seems to energize the water. I suspect that the m-state elements are somewhat energized and that this extra energy translates into a stronger Meissner field which facilitates intercellular communication in living organisms which take the water in. Of course, any time you stir or shake anything it is being moved in relation to the Earth's magnetic field. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36B90886.2D002B03@monad.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 21:40:23 -0500 From: Anton Elbers MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am new to this list and have only been readin the post's on GE seeds > and Johnny's for the last few days. I am concerned that the tone of this > discussion is so onesided. I read the letter that Rob Johnston wrote in > answer to the questions posed and although the positions he took might not > be agreeable to everyone on this list, I don't remember him saying that he > is ready or convinced at this time to sell or would try to sell GE seeds > without informing people, something that Allan seemed to be implying with > his story in the earlier post. > I truly believe that rather than starting a boycott our energy's are > better put towards finding ways to improve communication between the various > people and groups involved in finding ways to create a sustainable way of > life on this planet. > I don't believe that anyone of us has the answers to all the questions > facing us and it will take all of us working together to find the answers. -- Anton Elbers Orchard Hill Farm HC 63 box 91B East Alstead, N.H 03602 Aren't you nebber coming home? ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902040252.SAA26779@ns2.vphos.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:32:02 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: BD SEEDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Listfolk: In my listing of BD seed sources I inadvertently left off Elixer Farm, specialists in Chinese Medicinals.  Elixer Farm Botanicals, LLC Brixey, MO 65618 (417) 261-2393 www.elixerfarm.com Woody ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:37:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: "Seeds of Discord" Seeds of Discord Monsanto's Gene Police Raise Alarm On Farmers' Rights, Rural Tradition By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, February 3, 1999; Page A01 BRUNO, Saskatchewan-On a cold January morning in central Canada, Percy Schmeiser looks over his frozen fields. "Here's where all the trouble began," he says, pointing to where private investigators last year arrived uninvited and snipped samples of his crops for DNA tests. Schmeiser, 68, has been farming these fertile acres all his life, growing canola for the valuable oil in its seeds. And as farmers have done for thousands of years, he has saved some seeds from each year's harvest to replant his fields the following season. Now, he says, "for doing what I've always done," he is being sued by agribusiness giant Monsanto Co. in a landmark "seed piracy" case. The outcome could influence how much control biotechnology companies will have over the world's food supply in the next millennium, and is highlighting a major source of friction as the genetic revolution spills into the world of agriculture. Schmeiser is one of hundreds of farmers in the United States and Canada who stand accused by Monsanto of replanting the company's patented, gene-altered seeds in violation of a three-year-old company rule requiring that farmers buy the seeds fresh every year. He vehemently denies having bought Monsanto's seeds, saying pollen or seeds must have blown onto his farm, possibly from a neighbor's land. It's the company, Schmeiser says, that ought to be rebuked for its pattern of "harassment." Besides sending Pinkerton detectives into farmers' fields, the company sponsors a toll-free "tip line" to help farmers blow the whistle on their neighbors and has placed radio ads broadcasting the names of noncompliant growers caught planting the company's genes. Critics say those tactics are fraying the social fabric that holds farming communities together. ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER CERTIFICATION. ( You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is not necessarily ORGANIC. AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil test reports from independent labs.) Thanks for finding time for this -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:08:11 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Allan, Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. Michael On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER > CERTIFICATION. ( > You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a > definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on > the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, > maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't > come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > > > > Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with > particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is > not necessarily ORGANIC. > > AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations > which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil > test reports from independent labs.) > > > Thanks for finding time for this > > -Allan Balliett > moderator, BD NOW! > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <19990204191205.10312.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF:Mixed Signals Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:12:02 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To any and all, Sometimes the source of signals is easily mis-understood when I am working in nature. In biodynamics, I believe we are looking at the way the head underground works in contrast to the way in the atmosphere above. I did not fully comprehend this until reading some text about the pioneering done in early radio. In the early days of radio the ground was considered the most effective collector and transmittor of energy and signals. Those signals in the ground are strongest around peculiar geologic formations. I am unsure of the particular formation in which they are strongest in but mabey I will be able to understand more in the future through study, but NOT in the CONVENTIONAL or what we call modern. For this I am grateful to people like Dr. Steiner for there are parallels in pioneering radio of principals associated with the ground and in what Dr. Steiner gave in his Ag Lectures. I don't know actually what happened during my great-grandfathers epoch but the course of history through civilization seems to have embraced principals of opposite nature than that of biodynamics or pioneering radio. It is possible that a conspiratorial, greed based society would want to posses these concepts for their own. It is also possible that through scholarship in the university system at that time that these errors were perpetuated -- creating new myths. But not in getting too far away from the theme of this mailing, I do realize that geologics play a role in the signal strength of the ground. Some areas of the world that have peculiar formations seem to amplify signals more readily and some areas are dead. The area I live in, I do believe has a definite signature. It is so peculiar, for I am able to think a thing at a particular locale and then later on have someone either write or speak this same thing I was earlier thinking. This has happened enumerable times. Other things that have happened as well has to do with the place that I raise fish at. That area is prone to periodic flooding. I am constantly doing things to try to dicourage flooding without altering its serenity. Many times I have thought that I should do this or that and then do the thing. It works! No trial or error! Strange. An even stranger thing is that one would tend to think that heavy rains and flooding go together. I have found this to be totally untrue in an area that has a deep geologic & biodynamic foundation. The more I work with bd in that area the more responsive it becomes. So sometimes, I have found that the response that biodynamic nature is making that I have imagined that some human was watching me and mocking me by for example, not allowing flooding to occur. Then as I was reading things about pioneering radio, I realized. Yes, Yes, Yes. Steiner was most correct. A farm or garden can have its own unique personality. It IS AN ENTITY! You help it, It helps you. There is interaction between the soil and man or woman. It can be such a strong relationship, that the earth itself can take over and do the things that we are unable to due for lack of time or some other lack. Anyway, I am just beginning to realize what this Steiner fellow was refering to. It is one thing to understand something through intelligence and another to understand through personal experiance. It can be literal and it can be spiritual at the same time. I don't believe the two can be seperate because of movement between the two .... the marriage between heaven and earth has brought forth man and woman. By the way, if I have offended any on this list by my short sightedness of experiance, please accept my apology friends. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990204113731.0086d250@pop.igc.apc.org> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:37:31 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Web Based Activism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Friends, Several recent notes to this list have mentioned the possiblity of web based activism. I have been watching web based action campaigns for several years and have come up with some guidelines for successful email based action alerts. I am including some examples of well done and not so well done calls for action. I just got a note from a Pakistani newspaper writer calling for an effort to stop government censorship in Pakistan. This note did not include some of the most important items that should be included in such a call for action. Here is my note to this writer: Dear Isa, The kind of problem you mention below can be effectively countered by internet activists and I wish you luck. The most effective calls for action include the following information: 1. A clear and fairly brief description of the problem. 2. A direct personal example of the problem. 3. Information on where to go for more information (preferrably a web site). (If such is site is inadvisable with a Pakistan address it could be set up with a sympathizer in another country.) 4. An example letter which suggests comments or, 5. A list of suggested actions. For example: A. Take the 60-day No Aspartame Test and send us your case history. Mission Possible International 5950-H State Bridge Rd. #215, Duluth, GA 30097 USA B. Tell your doctor and all of your friends! 6. A list of addresses of people to contact with our objections. Here is an example of several of these concepts in action: PLEASE SEND LETTERS TODAY!!!! Here's what you should say, but in your own words. Tell these captains of industry that Boise Cascade is making a large and expensive mistake. The opposition to the project is widespread and diverse, from Chile's tourism industry to Chile's salmon industry to the Mayor of Puerto Montt to environmental groups from around the world. Chile's temperate rainforests are priceless, too valuable to be squandered away as wood chips and fiber board. The world's largest chip and board mill is not appropriate in Chile, its offensive. Chileans will fight it tooth and nail, and so will international environmental groups. In that kind of environment, Boise Cascade will have a very difficult time guaranteeing a sufficient supply of timber for their Cascada Chile mill. Its a risky venture for them, and it will just get riskier. In addition, specifically tell Mr. Harad and his board partner, Mr. Robert Jaedicke, to instead reinvest in their projects at home by emphasizing responsible management of their lands. And urge Mr. Marshall Carter and Mr. John Gunn to use their financial stockholder might as leverage to put pressure on Boise Cascade to pull out of this shaky and irresponsible investment. There is a window of opportunity right now for us to help Boise Cascade reverse course. The company still must obtain full bank financing for the Cascada Chile project in order for it to go forward, and Boise Cascade's board of directors must also vote its approval of the project at their meeting this Spring. Thousands of influential letters can turn them around! Mr. George Harad Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Boise Cascade Corporation 224 E. Braemere Rd. Boise, Idaho 83702-1710 Mr. Marshall N. Carter, CEO State Street Bank & Trust 225 Franklin St. Boston, MA 02110 Mr. Robert K. Jaedicke Stanford University Graduate School of Business Stanford, CA 94305 Mr. John Gunn, President Dodge & Cox 1 Sansome Street San Francisco, CA 94104-4436 ________________________________________________________ 7. Target the activists that you feel are most likely to respond. Join email lists and newsgroups which might have folks willing to help your cause. Find individuals who are a part of numerous newsgroups or email lists who might circulate your message to the lists that they are a part of. Suggest the type of activists that these folks might contact. In your call for action, ask that it be circulated as widely as possible. 8. Put a short but descriptive title on your plea. "Sinking the News" is good but it does not convey what you wish to have happen. How about "Help Stop Pakistan Government from Sinking the News". 9. Protect yourself. Use an anonymous remailer for responses, have a friend in another country forward responses, write your story in the third person and anything else that you can think of to protect your ability to keep up the fight. Your continuted information is the most critical thing to the continuation of this effort. Develop as many alternative means of getting information out as you can. Also, see if you can find others who will continue the fight if you no longer have communication access. It is important for those who oppose you to know that they cannot solve the problem by silencing a few voices. 10. Help people make the link between your cause and other popular causes. If there are US corporations which are pushing the Pakistani government into its position, you can get anti-corporate folks to support your cause. Are labor issues involved? If they are, you can target a call to action to labor related activists. The same with environmental, human rights and globalist issues. It might be nice to have a message which ties all of these items into one call to action but it might be more effective to have several messages targeted to different activist communities. You want to get your message cross posted to as many email lists as possible. Make this easy for folks to do by providing a justification for them to post things that might be a little bit off subject but not far enough off subject that they will be criticized for their post. An environmental forest activist friend of mine has written a fine series of articles on how to be an effective activist. Though these articles apply to forest activism there are many principles that relate to activism in general. This series is called "Usual Suspects" and can be found at: http://britell.com/use/use1.html I hope that I will have an opportunity to help circulate your message when I have a clearer idea of what you wish to happen. At 01:43 PM 2/4/99 +0500, you wrote: > > >---------- >From: Isa Daudpota [SMTP:daudpota@sdnpk.undp.org] >Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 7:28 PM >To: Undisclosed.recipients:; >Subject: "Sinking the News" > >This is my plea against the Government of Pakistan's attempt >to get 16 journalists fired from the national daily "The News". Isa > >-------------------"Sinking the News"----------------------- > > >Fascism survives in its morbid forms througout the world, but nowhere are >its methods more blatant than in the developing world. Dissidents are >intimidated and newspapers pressured to present a pleasing picture of the >government's performance. Where govenments begin to act like Goliath, >thankfully, Davids springs up, and their appearance restores ones faith in >society's latent capacity for healing. In Pakistan, there are 16 such >Davids whose honest ink have filled the columns of "The News" and >highlighted continued misgovernance in Pakistan. The government is now >coercing this national daily to stifle these brave voices and to replace >them by others who would readily trumpet the government's achievements. > >In such times let's remind ourselves of the moving words of Pastor Martin >Nielmoller. [The string of journalists from other newspapers who have >appeared on Pakistan Television *supporting* the government's action need >to pay particular attention.] The Pastor wrote: > >"In Germany they first came for the Communist and I didn't speak up >because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't >speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came >for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then >they came for me -- and by that time no one was left to speak up." > >A united journalists' community and others who value a liberal press >should strongly oppose the government's high-handed policy to suppress >free journalism in this country. Remember, that failure in this would be >a step towards ending unbiased national reporting. It would condemn those >wanting to know the national news -- grim as it is in reality -- to >viewing Pakistan Television's sugary government propaganda. Horror! >That's reason enough to put up a fight. > > >Q. Isa Daudpota Email: daudpota@sdnpk.undp.org >P. O. Box 3099, >Islamabad 44000, PAKISTAN. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:04:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Michael - Are these tests for organic matter levels, trace minerals, etc -or- are they test for heavy metal contamination, etc (or 'both')? -Allan >Dear Allan, > > Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative >Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants >and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley >and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA >around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. >Michael > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >> I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER >> CERTIFICATION. ( >> You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a >> definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on >> the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, >> maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't >> come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? >> >> >> >> Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with >> particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is >> not necessarily ORGANIC. >> >> AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations >> which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil >> test reports from independent labs.) >> >> >> Thanks for finding time for this >> >> -Allan Balliett >> moderator, BD NOW! >> >> ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:08:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Maria Thun Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most thankful for a hint. Ferdinand Vondruska ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: pamdetray@email.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990204152923E5.14744@webc02.globecomm.net> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:29:23 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: study circle Hello all, my computer is dead but my efforts to comprehend the Ag Course are still very much alive. However, I don't have much access to email until I replace the old Mac. I hope to have as much of the lecture course as possible under my belt before I start planting this spring. Don't know when I'll have a new computer. I would be curious to hear from other study circle participants--how are you coming with your individual study? Cheers, Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:34:31 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Maria Thun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 05-Feb-99, you wrote: > Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most > thankful for a hint. > > Ferdinand Vondruska > Regards ' Work on the Land and the Constellations', this is one book by Maria Thun that I know of. Regards Margaret from Australia ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <19990204202613.10262.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Maria Thun Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:26:13 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Ferdinand, Try "Working With the Land and the Constellations". Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <19990204205010.16257.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: study circle Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:50:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Pam, I don't know if I'm studing that much at the moment..(e.g.) have you ever been to a Church where everyone has their head in the Hymnal? Even though they use the same liturgical setting nearly every Sunday... no one remembers it. Why? Their not using their Heart.... Once the heart enters into the matter, a person begins to experiance. With the experiance we observe. Put another way. Observe the experiance. After our first year of the use of preparations, I want to observe the experiance. I want to see what has occurred, look at what change is taking place. Its wonderful and the entity(of the farm) is beginning to assume its' own character. Is that something else that Steiner meant, you know, when he said "the period of crystalization"? Mabey its the time when the farm entity begins to communicate with the rest of the environment. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <00ce01be5081$a612b640$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Maria Thun Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:02:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ferdy, Pam!!! So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. You have both been in my thoughts. Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with us...just let her rip! (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) :-) Julie ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:51:45 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Honeybee Quote Not giving up with the lack of enthusiasm about defining Demeter Certification, I'm looking for your favorite quote about THE HONEYBEE. One from RS would be most welcomed, but what else do you have? -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:27:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Message-ID: <6D40ADD8B6AEDEAC8525670F000657B1.0007FE458525670F@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends of Bd-Now, <> I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their collective hubris. Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was unclear? Respectfully, Jane Sherry (Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:52:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: vinnie Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Bravo!! Jane Sherry. How articulate and clear! Vinnie at Elixir Farm >Dear Friends of Bd-Now, > ><intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations >steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, >and such? > >That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the >general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they >can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel >that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. >It is murky beyond comfort.">> > >I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. >However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations >is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not >the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their >collective hubris. > >Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control >LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! >Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is >unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce >diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? > >The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone >would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very >greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can >not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. > >Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational >corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- >fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic >manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was >unclear? > >Respectfully, >Jane Sherry >(Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36BA5405.4702F6B1@seattle2000.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:14:59 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I am here lurking... Thanks for asking Julie. And Ferdy, if you want, you can just lurk too. (I hate that word but I have found that by just reading and discarding email and not feeling obligated to answer those not addressed to me personally, I have more freedom! And we will all be getting busier as the winter rolls away... Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm "Julie M." wrote: > Ferdy, Pam!!! > > So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking > about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. > You have both been in my thoughts. > > Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your > departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with > us...just let her rip! > > (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) > > :-) > > Julie ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36BA5B3E.4381F2CD@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:45:18 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Martin, Just returned from the stable. Having been away for seven weeks is a long, long time. We have put about 6 - 7 inches of bird's eye gravel into the cow pen and it works wonders. No more foot problems, and they love to rest on the sand (it is about a 4mm dia.sand). So, anybody who has cows that he has to keep in a small(er) pen, let me assure you that bird's eye is the answer. We can easily collect the manure. The urin is running away. And another benefit: In spring we put BD Preparations into the sand (the cows are then on the field and not in the pen) and we can harvest the most amazing crops such as tomatoes, cukes, cabbage, zucchinis (you have never seen such fine zucchinis!) and a lot of vegetable that is high feeder. Of course, the Preps (compost preps) will break down the manure in the sand relatively quickly and the roots will go all the way down into the underground. I just wanted to add this for those who have a problem with keeping cows penned in. We keep 5 cows (more on the way). As I said: the hooves are clean, the fur is shining and the eyes are bright and happy. And the small calf is full of zest and vigour. What else: yea! I realized that the snow melted right away when falling on the sand. On concrete, on the soil and on the hard gravel it is still laying about 4 inches thick. So, sand must reflect the warmth of the air and let some air get inbetween snow and sand so that it will melt faster. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Yes, I am here lurking... Thanks for asking Julie. And Ferdy, if you want, > you can just lurk too. (I hate that word but I have found that by just reading > and discarding email and not feeling obligated to answer those not addressed to > me personally, I have more freedom! And we will all be getting busier as the > winter rolls away... > Martin Nyberg > GreenMan Farm > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > Ferdy, Pam!!! > > > > So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking > > about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. > > You have both been in my thoughts. > > > > Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your > > departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with > > us...just let her rip! > > > > (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) > > > > :-) > > > > Julie ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902050251.SAA12670@ns2.vphos.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:45:41 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allan: >From a Demeter trifold brochure: "The Demeter Association, Inc. is a national, independent, non-profit, non-tax-exempt corporation committed to assuring that Biodynamic foods in the United States are grown and processed with the highest integrity and care. The standards for evaluation are used worldwide." Also: "The Demeter Associations stands as your assurance that food properly bearing the Demeter Association symbols has been grown by Biodynamic agricultural methods and has met specific standards within these methods. Synthetic fertilizers, insecticides, fungicides, herbicides, hormones, additives and irradiation are not used on farms and processed foods certified by the Demeter Association." and Allan: IMO there is no non-organic agriculture which is sustainable; nor is much of organic methodology sustainable. For a definition of sustainabiligy in agriculture, think of the Chinese methods detailed in _Farmers of Forth Centuries_ by F H King, writing in the first decade of the present century. Woody At 12:42 PM 2/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER >CERTIFICATION. ( >You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a >definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on >the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, >maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't >come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > > > >Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with >particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is >not necessarily ORGANIC. > >AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations >which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil >test reports from independent labs.) > > >Thanks for finding time for this > >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: jrei@uswest.net Message-ID: <36BA6AF2.C8879542@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:52:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , "OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU" Subject: American Seed Trade Association Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just returned from the Vegetable and Flower Seed Conference of the American Seed Trade Association and thought some of you would be interested in some of the discussions. First of all I would like to thank those of you who provided comments for me to share with the All-American Selections Committee concerning the inclusion of GM (genetically modified) varieties into the selection's judging. It was decided that GM varieties would not be allowed into the competition because the AAS lacked the resources to explain GM varieties to the general public. During the conference I had a chance to talk with representatives from nearly all of the major seed producers from around the world. The topic of GM varieties was a major point of discussion both on a one-to-one basis as well as in committee meetings. Two points soon became clear. The first was that some companies were genuinely surprised by the attitude of disappointment and disapproval by the home gardener. Many truly see GM varieties as the savior of mankind. The second was the fact that most companies are taking the lack of regulation, mainly in the area of labeling, by the federal government as an open door invitation to increase the amount of GM material introduced into the food supplies. The feeling is that as long as GM grains are allowed to be blended into the supplies of non -GM grains, the American public will be 'stelthed' into submission. As most of you know the home garden market is but a drop in the bucket when it comes to the total amount of vegetable seed used in the US. More and more garden seed companies are faced with taking a variety that was really bred for the commercial market or to develop a breeding and seed production program which is expensive and time consuming. That leaves many at the mercy of the large international seed companies that are racing towards GO varieties as if their life depended on it. Many of these companies have the stated objective of rapidly moving towards GM varieties for there entire lineup. It was also interesting to hear most of the companies say that the current terminator technology was impractical due to the necessity of treating the seed with tetracycline in order to activate the gene, but that most had ongoing programs to develop similar technologies that was less complicated. Many of the senior company representatives are convinced that there must be ways to definitively protect their varieties from unauthorized use. It was however, somewhat reassuring that when I explained that Territorial Seed Company would not trial or market any variety that is developed by GM, a number of seed companies indicated that they would assist us in whatever way possible to continue to offer home garden varieties as well as providing us with discontinued germplasm with which we could use to continue to expand our own seed production. Hope this spurs some additional discussion about the state of GMO's in the US today. Joel Reiten Territorial Seed Company ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: Margaret Kemp To: BDnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:26:52 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: mad cow disease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one has sent in any relevant info as yet. Could someone out there give me info to pass on? Thank you Margaret ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36BAC024.2B59DE91@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:55:48 +0000 From: ALISON EADES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: mad cow disease Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are still getting stories every now and again in the UK of people with CJD, which may be the result of eating infected beef. This has some very unpleasant symptoms and ultimately leads to death. This week there was a story in the paper that a cow in France had been found with BSE (Bovine SE) and the whole herd had to be put down (though I wasn't sure if that meant the herd in France or the herd in Britain where the cow came from - maybe both). The policy remains in place that one infected cow means deth to a complete herd. The UK is still trying to get the European Union to lift the ban on trading British beef. Alison Margaret Kemp wrote: > Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is > known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a > list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one > has sent in any relevant info as yet. > Could someone out there give me info to pass on? > Thank you > Margaret ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36BA0412.D3DF5822@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:33:22 +0000 From: ALISON EADES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Maria Thun Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any book? 'Work on the Land and the Constellations' Maria Thun, translation 1990 ISBN 0 906155 30 X Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most > thankful for a hint. > > Ferdinand Vondruska ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:04 -0400 (AST) From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yeah Jane... Couldn't have said it better myself.. The Nova Scotia Organic Growers Assoc. (NSOGA) is now in the process of publishing a Bio-Tech special edition newsletter...This will include a list of biodynamic/organic seed companies.... Ecology & evironmental groups will be assisting in helping this publication reaches the consumer.... Anyone interested in obtaining a copy contact: Janet Wallace Email: jwallace@istar.ca --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Dear Friends of Bd-Now, > > < intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations > steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, > and such? > > That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the > general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they > can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel > that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. > It is murky beyond comfort.">> > > I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. > However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations > is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not > the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their > collective hubris. > > Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control > LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! > Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is > unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce > diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? > > The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone > would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very > greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can > not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. > > Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational > corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- > fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic > manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was > unclear? > > Respectfully, > Jane Sherry > (Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: WCavender@aol.com Message-ID: <3138a9c8.36baefde@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:19:26 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Send Email to help stop the Terminator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://www.rafi.org/usda.html ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36B7A4BF.6DC5@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:22:07 -0500 From: Linda Ray MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net, hwashen@trace.net.tw Subject: Re: seeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bill and Listfolk, The most complete gathering of links and contact information for open-pollinated, Heirloom seed sources I have yet found is at: http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople. Best Regards, Linda Ray Free as a community service-- The above link is posted on the US Organic Agriculture Message Board: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > to the list. I'd like to get this list together - - through everyone's > input - - and up on the www.igg.com/bdnow because there is a LOT of > interest reliable REAL seed. -AB> > > Hi, > > Can you refer me to sources of non-hybrid, open pollenating seeds? I am > working with farmers in Taiwan using biodynamic methods to transition from > chemical to organic farming. > > Thank you, > > Bill Watson > Eden (T'ien Lin) Partners > > hwashen@trace.net.tw ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902051824.KAA20812@ns2.vphos.net> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 11:16:45 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: mad cow disease Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Margaret: http://www.cyber-dyne. com/~tom/mad_cow_disease.html Woody At 02:26 PM 2/5/99 +1100, you wrote: >Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is >known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a >list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one >has sent in any relevant info as yet. >Could someone out there give me info to pass on? >Thank you >Margaret > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: pamdetray@email.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9902051352109L.01686@www4.iname.net> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:52:10 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: STUDY L3 Sulfur Every time I read this lecture, a question always hovers. In the past, I've used sulfur to balance the alkalinity of my soil, before the effects of all my composting here started to kick in. Is soil alkaline partly because of a lack of sulfur? Weren't the creative fingers moistened enough when the high desert here was created? Thanks, Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Allan, I waited until I contacted Sarah Davidson of BCARA, who heads the certification section. Yes, they require soil tests on total organics, minerals, trace minerals for new applicants for each of the first three years, then once in every three years afterwards. If there was a history of pesticide use, then, at least for the first year, they have to also do a pesticide screen, or, select for certain pesticides if a detailed history is known. In theory, COABC requires one in three years testing for the above, but, apparently not all of the 8 certification gov't sponsored agencies all comply or enforce, but, BCARA does. Michael On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Michael - Are these tests for organic matter levels, trace minerals, etc > -or- are they test for heavy metal contamination, etc (or 'both')? -Allan > > > >Dear Allan, > > > > Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative > >Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants > >and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley > >and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA > >around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. > >Michael > > > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > >> I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER > >> CERTIFICATION. ( > >> You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a > >> definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on > >> the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, > >> maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't > >> come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > >> > >> > >> > >> Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with > >> particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is > >> not necessarily ORGANIC. > >> > >> AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations > >> which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil > >> test reports from independent labs.) > >> > >> > >> Thanks for finding time for this > >> > >> -Allan Balliett > >> moderator, BD NOW! > >> > >> > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86-- ----__ListProc__NextPart__918244163459122081-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 15:42:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00165 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:42:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03250; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:34:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02836 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:32:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id PAA03626 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:33:40 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:31:40 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF5B@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: seeds Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:31:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 145 thanks, Linda!! olivia > ---------- > From: Linda Ray > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 1999 8:22 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Cc: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net; hwashen@trace.net.tw > Subject: Re: seeds > > Dear Bill and Listfolk, > > The most complete gathering of links and contact information for > open-pollinated, Heirloom seed sources I have yet found is at: > http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople. > > Best Regards, > Linda Ray > > Free as a community service-- The above link is posted on the US > Organic Agriculture Message Board: > http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray > > > > > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > > as > > to the list. I'd like to get this list together - - through everyone's > > input - - and up on the www.igg.com/bdnow because there is a LOT of > > interest reliable REAL seed. -AB> > > > > Hi, > > > > Can you refer me to sources of non-hybrid, open pollenating seeds? I am > > working with farmers in Taiwan using biodynamic methods to transition > from > > chemical to organic farming. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Bill Watson > > Eden (T'ien Lin) Partners > > > > hwashen@trace.net.tw > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 16:04:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA00711 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:04:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06733; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06351 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:53:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0114.direct.ca ([204.244.83.14] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 108sHJ-0000Hd-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:55:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36BB5A65.F2B161C0@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:53:57 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3 Sulfur References: <9902051352109L.01686@www4.iname.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 146 My dear friend Pam, You know, the creator spirits did not think that man would live just about everywhere and, in some cases, want to grow tomatoes on the North Pole or strawberries in the jugle. We, human beings, want to live just about everywhere AND grow potatoes in the desert or whatever. The spirits of creation produced marvellous areas such as the Nile Delta, certain areas in the Prairies or along the coasts and so forth on which people could grow a multitude of vegetables, wheat, corn and so forth. But then they started to move into the mountains, cut off the trees and changed the bio-balance greatly. Some of us may live in areas where our forefathers&mothers eeked out their sparce living..... and the soil may still be good. Some of us may live in areas (such as yours) that was forests only and, may be, the hunter(s) and gatherers could survive. They needed vast areas to live in and they had to move on and on and on. A special kind of life. And then, modern man started to settle into the gatherer's area and started to produce whatever. Made composts and the like. Well, I, too, am living in an area that (historically) would not have supported too many a family on an acre, perhaps 1/8th of a person per acre, if at all. Fish, fowl, bear, deer and the odd skunk (I wouldn't eat them of course) would have made it possible for my forebears to live here. A bit of vegetables, too. But nothing like corn, wheat, potatoes or any starchy stuff. The soil is as acid as a lemon, in this part of the world. Forest soil. and it took us years to 'neutralize it'. And if we leave, it will go back to a pH 3.5 or less. We limed, we spread ashes, we aereated, we dug, we composted, we drained and worked hard to bring the pH up to the present 5.8 or 6.5 and we are still far below the ideal level. Winter rain, moss growth, the proximity of the forest and some pollution (thinking of the paper mills....) will make our battle a long one. I do not know whether I have said anything you can use here. Regards Ferdinand pamdetray@email.com wrote: > Every time I read this lecture, a question always hovers. > > In the past, I've used sulfur to balance the alkalinity of my soil, before the effects of all my composting here started to kick in. > > Is soil alkaline partly because of a lack of sulfur? Weren't the creative fingers moistened enough when the high desert here was created? > > Thanks, > Pam DeTray > > ----------------------------------------------- > FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 21:16:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06085 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16655; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:05:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15791 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:01:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.172] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05787 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:02:36 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990205.122205.-4073599.0.barrylia@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:02:08 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 147 Not to intentionally respond to your thoughtfully written reply in an inappropriate fashion in the least, I wanted to mention that this afternoon I saw stacks of this very book by Logsdon at Borders in the very nice hardback edition for the price of a mere $1.00. The rare beauty of chain operations is that there's probably a stack at the Borders near you also. (And Taylors "Berries" book for $5.99) -Allan >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:27 -0500 Intergalactic Garage >writes: >[snip] >>Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' >with particular emphasis on that agriculture which is >sustainable but >which is not necessarily ORGANIC. >[snip] >>-Allan Balliett >>moderator, BD NOW! > >Allan, > I don't have a "succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture'" to >proffer, but I thought I'd offer the following food for thought on the >topic above. > You may already be familiar with Gene Logsdon's writings? His THE >CONTRARY FARMER represents an "agriculture which is sustainable but which >is not necessarily ORGANIC." > I'm thinking in particular of passages starting on page 161: "Oh, so >you're not a certified organic grower, visitors sometimes snort, knowing >that I have been an outspoken supporter of organic farming methods for >thirty years. Nope, I'm not. For thirty years I've also said that a >_moderate_ amount of chemical fertilizer is not harmful to anything and >is sometimes the most economical way to maintain fertility. I thought >that the organic fraternity would eventualy realize this." > Keep in mind that his concern here is NOT with nitrogen--he manures and >rotates pasture--but with P & K: "And to say that natural raw phosphate >or potash derivatives are okay for sustainable agriculture and the >fertilizers refined from them are anathema is an argument for which >little proof exists outside the minds of organic purists. Besides, think >of the increased air pollution, ozone build-up, transportation costs, and >highway accidents that would occur if all of agriculture decided to rely >only on far greater tonnages of the unrefined material. > "I figure I am just as competent and justified in this situation to >declare that a little chemical fertilizer is okay in good farming as the >NOSB evidently feels justified and competent in saying that antibiotics, >which I have not had to use, are sometimes okay in organic farming." > Logsdon later quotes a friend of his: "'If the National Organic >Standards Board insists on barring all synthetic fertilizers, most >farmers trying hard to achieve a sustainable agriculture that works will >simply drop out of the organic movement. I don't care to be certified >organic anyway; I just want to run an ecologically sane farm on the least >amount of inputs as possible.'" > His moderated non-purist attutude is also reflected the bottom of page >204: "Eventually the good farmer--following a rotation of corn, oats, >wheat, hay, and pasture and then back to corn--will keep his fields >relatively weed-free without herbicides. If a special weed problem does >occur, then a small spot-spraying of herbicide to the problem area can be >very effective, but only under the mantle of proper rotations and >cultivation. I am sorry to have to disagree with the organic purists who >liken herbicide applications to human drug use and say that it only takes >a spoonful to start an addiction." [Recall that such "small >spot-spraying of herbicide to the problem area" was indeed a moderate >attitude advocated even by Rachel Carson in SILENT SPRING.] >_____________________________________________________________ >Barry Lia, Seattle WA > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 21:20:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06125 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:20:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16531; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:05:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15765 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:01:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.172] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05769 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:02:34 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:59:43 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 148 >Hi Allan, > > I waited until I contacted Sarah Davidson of BCARA, who heads the >certification section. > > Yes, they require soil tests on total organics, minerals, trace minerals >for new applicants for each of the first three years, then once in every >three years afterwards. If there was a history of pesticide use, then, at >least for the first year, they have to also do a pesticide screen, or, >select for certain pesticides if a detailed history is known. > In theory, COABC requires one in three years testing for the above, but, >apparently not all of the 8 certification gov't sponsored agencies all >comply or enforce, but, BCARA does. > Michael > Pardon me for I am THICK: does BCARA adminster these tests, or does the farmer use an independent lab and send the results to BCARA? Thanks -Allan >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 21:21:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06141 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:21:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16414; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:04:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15752 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:01:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.172] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05759 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:02:31 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36B7A4BF.6DC5@worldnet.att.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:55:28 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 149 Linda - How was the Florida BD Conference? -Allan =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 00:15:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08858 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:15:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02126; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:06:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29619 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA22282 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:41:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:41:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 150 No, the farmer takes the tests and it goes to an independant lab. Unfort., Sarah told me of farmers who take samples right after they spread compost, leading to some very interesting results. They are trying to educated the farmers to take the tests at the same time of year, but, that may be different depending on the crop. That sets up an interesting problem in that crop rotation would lead to different sampling times. How to achieve consistancy and meaningful results? Are the results just indications? I know people who don't take lab samples, but, just feel and look at the soil and sense everything that is defficient and sufficient. Michael On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >Hi Allan, > > > > I waited until I contacted Sarah Davidson of BCARA, who heads the > >certification section. > > > > Yes, they require soil tests on total organics, minerals, trace minerals > >for new applicants for each of the first three years, then once in every > >three years afterwards.. If there was a history of pesticide use, then, at > >least for the first year, they have to also do a pesticide screen, or, > >select for certain pesticides if a detailed history is known. > > In theory, COABC requires one in three years testing for the above, but, > >apparently not all of the 8 certification gov't sponsored agencies all > >comply or enforce, but, BCARA does. > > Michael > > > > Pardon me for I am THICK: does BCARA adminster these tests, or does the > farmer use an independent lab and send the results to BCARA? > > Thanks > > -Allan > > >> > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 00:16:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08866 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:16:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA01964; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:05:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [194.126.80.50]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28163 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from p26s03a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.211.39] helo=cooksd.globalnet.co.uk) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 108zFt-0002Ij-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 04:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: <36BBBF15.6920@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 04:03:33 +0000 From: "Cook's Delight" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: BSE and GM foods by Rex Tyler] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------102118D918E5" Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 151 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------102118D918E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just a comment really on the facts about BSE and GM foods this letter was sent to Our Ministry Of Agriculture to try to make them see sense Regards Rex Tyler --------------102118D918E5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <36B67B43.3F1C@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 04:12:51 +0000 From: Cook's Delight Reply-To: cooksd@globalnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: K.Slade@FSSG.maff.gov.uk CC: soilassoc@gn.apc.org Subject: Re: BSE and GM foods by Rex Tyler References: <366B1A07.7D25@globalnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So at last it's out,AIDS came down from the monkeys, The chimpanzees were eaten, and of course Transmission jumped the species that's Reality And Africa began to feel the Force The great disastrous Tidal Wave that's followed With after shocks that have spread far and wide How many souls have perished? Through this arrogance! And truly there is now, no place to hide. It's out there, reeking havoc, in Humanity Xenotransplantation, seems to me To be the Hell above all Hell's, I'm sorry If you lot and the Government can't see As Humans, these credentials are sufficient A Scientist I do not have to be I only have to see the face of Children And all this sadness just boils up in me. The rats in Dr Putzai's famous sacking Have surfaced in last Sundays famous Mail A top Pathologist confirms, his findings And so begins the controversial trail Fowards,backwards everywhere, and people The Public, the Organic Movement share The worries We are really VERY worried It seems to us so many monsters tear The heart and soul, out of, what is so positive For their ends, and its happening right now That this Genetic Business should be halted Not why,Not when, but right away, Here's How The greedy Corporations tell them hop it Get out, "sling your hooks" just bloody Go It's beyond the comprehension of so many Who really simply just don't want to know. Rex Tyler --------------102118D918E5-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 00:19:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08932 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:19:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02062; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:06:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29308 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:33:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.150.21] (pm3mbr4-150-21.intrepid.net [209.190.150.21]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA31340 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:34:54 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:50:51 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Invasive, Non-Native Species Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 152 FEDERAL EFFORT TO COMBAT INVASIVE SPECIES EXPANDED -- President Clinton is signing an executive order to coordinate a federal strategy to address the growing environmental and economic threat of invasive species, plants and animals that are not native to the United States. Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman, Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, and Commerce Under Secretary James Baker told a news conference (February 3) that the order creates an Invasive Species Council. The Council will develop a comprehensive plan to minimize the economic, ecological, and human health impacts of invasive species and determine further steps to prevent the introduction and spread of invasive species. The Council will be chaired by Glickman, Babbitt and Commerce Secretary William Daley. Contact: Andy Solomon (202) 720-4623. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 08:59:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA11984 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:59:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA01737; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA01479 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.41] (client-151-196-116-41.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.41]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10265 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:49:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902061349.IAA10265@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:47:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 153 ><intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations >steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, >and such? >>Jane Sherry wrote: >Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control >LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! >Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is >unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce >diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? >Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational >corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- >fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic >manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was .unclear? Dear Jane and others who express concern about my patience, Both in corporate board rooms and socially I have spoken with people involved with bringing genetically engineered food and other products to the market. They turned out to be human beings with families and all the usual concerns. I found them to be sincere and enthusiastic about what they are doing. In my view their ideas and actions are myopic, wrong-headed, anti-life, and dangerous, but I do not judge them or their intention. I've learned the hard way about judgement and sizzling rhetoric. Many if not most people in those corporate labs and board rooms are passionately certain they are motivated by basically good impulses, not greed, hatred, or fear. While I may disagree with them, and strive to bring other realities into being that I am certain -- in my limited wisdom -- are positive and the way to go, I have no infallible perspective into their souls. Some have suggested that dark occult lodges are behind all of this GEO madness -- and also behind many other so-called innovations in the modern world. That may be so. I have no way of knowing for certain, or doing much about that other than keeping ceremonial vigil as is my way. My personal call to action is clear -- acknowledge the problems and dangers, name them, and then put my energy into spreading the word and supporting what is life affirming: organics, biodynamics, and CSA. At least until a major disaster of some sort happens to open the public's eyes, GEOs are here and likely to multiply. Each person aware of this makes choices about how to respond. One part of my response is to frame questions that help me penetrate further. Since this is happening on a massive scale, I ask "what is the ultimate spiritual intention or purpose behind this"? What part does it play in the larger spiritual evolution of humanity and the hoop? I'm going to take my time and go carefully on those questions. And I'm going to put the sweat of my brow, my wallet, and my creative energy in the garden, in the local CSA, and in community education about what is positive and healing. Sincerely, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 12:12:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13758 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:12:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18024; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:02:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10706 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:48:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-89.s26.as1.hgt.erols.com [207.172.143.89]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25807 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:49:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36BC6446.61EBCE41@erols.com> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:48:22 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds References: <199902061349.IAA10265@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 154 Steven McFadden wrote: > Both in corporate board rooms and socially I have spoken with people > involved with bringing genetically engineered food and other products to the > market. They turned out to be human beings with families and all the usual > concerns. I found them to be sincere and enthusiastic about what they are > doing. > Maybe so, maybe so...but: I actually interacted with a man who Novartis hired away from the university system and then turned loose to stalk the Internet on their behalf. I'm making that up? Not hardly: once upon a time, while monitoring a supposed alternative ag group, I kept noticing that every time I put in a plug for earth-friendly farming he would immediately jump in to "explain" that toxic chemicals aren't so bad after all. One day I asked what his purpose was. He responded with two points: 1) he liked to piss me off (his words) and, 2) he intended to see that chemicals got a "fair" shake. He was quite candid that doing the later was his job, while doing the former was his recreation. Since then I have noticed other spokesmen for the drug and chemical industry (based on their tireless championing of toxic technology), but I can't get them to fess up that they're paid for it. The best I can do is observe the time stamps on their messages. It quickly becomes apparent they're writing those "hey guys, a little poison never hurt anybody" messages on company time. Steve, I highly respect you and your work. However, I would urge you to mount a serious study into the agents of disinfomation working the Internet. There are billions and billions of dollars at stake here and the big toxic sellers are not going down without a fight. A conspiracy can be more than two guys getting together to plot how to do you wrong. For instance, when giant companies A, B, & C, all members of the Association of Chemical Manufacturers (or whatever), independently send their detail men out to spread disinformation, I call that, too, conspiracy. These people do not have our best interests at heart. They are there to make a profit and only become interested in the enviornment when the toxic crap starts seeping out of the ground neath *their* barbecue grill. And, to go back on topic, please discount a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g said by a GE seed seller. I repeat: they *ain't* doing it for your health. Regards, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:11:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16141 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07240; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:01:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12066 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.2.10]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:04:08 +0000 Message-ID: <36BC6523.8E6@cwcom.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 15:52:03 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Ann Wigmore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 155 Allen - I've just tried again to reach Ann Wigmore Institute web sites. No dramatic responses, as in the past: for www.wigmore.org/~wigmore and www.rt66.com/~wigmore/ I received simply "Not Found"; for www.healthmap.com/wigmore/ I got HTTP Error 404 - all after a longish wait. I'm still not sure who's to blame. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:11:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16153 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:11:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07405; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12069 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.2.10]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:04:10 +0000 Message-ID: <36BC6879.3F9@cwcom.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:06:17 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: GM foods Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 156 Thanks, Allen, for your tongue-in-cheek relay of the proposed "non-native, invasive plants" legislation. Obviously includes all GM species, but doesn't it also include 90+% of all food-plants now cultivated in the US, plus most of those in gardens ? How to act against the one without the other ? Incidentally, the BBC Radio 4 regular magazine "Food Programme" yesterday dealt with GM foods (not much detail in only half-an-hour's worth of trying to be fair to both sides). Strangely, Monsanto's PR spokesperson was unable to make a contribution, but some other company officer was caught for a couple of minutes hopping onto a plane at Heathrow airport. His comments studiously referred only to "biotechnology" and the fear which ignorant, non-technical people had of it - no reference to specific cases of herbicide resistance, terminator technology etc, and the interviewer was far too polite to question him on these. He (Monsanto Man) stressed that by far the greatest resistance to this biotechnology is shown by Brits, which he ascribed to our mistrust of scientists after the BSE debacle; US Americans, he claimed, are far less resistant. So you lot have got to get your act together and scream even louder ? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:11:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16155 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:11:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07521; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:02:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06414 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25832 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:10:34 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO>; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:55:33 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: Information, mis or otherwise Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:55:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE51D8.5D6C0A60" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 157 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE51D8.5D6C0A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from = Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars = but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is = surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated = varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are = 'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with = some of the desirable traits this one has?=20 Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside = from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of = our food? Martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE51D8.5D6C0A60 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiETAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAHgAAAEluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCBtaXMgb3Igb3RoZXJ3aXNlABYLAQWAAwAO AAAAzwcCAAYADQA3ACEABgBJAQEggAMADgAAAM8HAgAGAA0ALwA0AAYAVAEBCYABACEAAAA2MDM5 NEM2Qzg1QkREMjExQjExMTAwQzBGMDI5NjgyMQDnBgEDkAYAzAUAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAA AAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAgLH1pwpSvgEeAHAAAQAAAB4A AABJbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgbWlzIG9yIG90aGVyd2lzZQAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+Ugqn7mxMOWG9 hRHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJl ci5jb20AAAADAAYQSaC0BwMABxAmAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAU1BFQUtJTkdPRk5PVkFSVElTLElC T1VHSFRPUEVOUE9MTElOQVRFRE1FTE9OVEhJU09SREVSRlJPTUZFRENPSVRTQ0FMTEVEUVVFVFpB TEksU01BTEwsUk9VTkQsUEFJTlRFRAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAK0CAACpAgAASwMAAExaRnVHCUp3dwAK AQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxOHAoMAUA72cHJxMg/2cn0KgXVjAFALAwtgbiBnMTAzMwxg bG4NAiBlC6YGAHBlYWshC4BnIG9mB7BvdoUKwHQEACwgSSAG4Gh1Z2gFQG8UYAOgcKUG8GwLgGF0 CYAgB4DzCQADoHRoBAAU0AsgBJCyIANSIEYJgAWgLhWgVHQnBCBjB0BsFxFRqQpQdHoHQGkVkHMA wEcWsBWQA2B1bmQVkCcnCrALgBcBJyAWwGtl9QXQbxdxJgYAAZAPoBXADnUFQAPwF6AgMTIl3xpg FfAc0gBwFyBmB9EPsH8JgAQgC4AeQBpkGCEKsGPQa2FnZRjwRwlwFvBhFZBodWg/CqIKgEH/AYAY IRfzFKEVkgIQGwEU0K8dIRegFvAVByABAHYXUd8UYBcgF6MXQxWQdxewD3B3HyAEIB3gchFABAAU omIZBZBhdQ+wFaFkaWR0bicFQGsTgAfgF6Bl9nkdQAWwax1EFk4VMQiQ5xVgB5AY8FNvIOEoESiQ xxNgIwEToCBnbx5AFdH9BUBmC4AngBSyHSIlsx7S7x5ACXAbQAGQbRRgCXEb0PEdUj8gVyNyK2Qm 4CgyfxaBG4EfIgUAILEUogORT+5QKiUocR1icwNwHCAU4fcwMgEAAJByAaAZkBeQM8DfHWAEIBek K9EPgHMvMCFE/kQsEBWwD7AeYR1gFcAgEfcvMDXTKAJwHSEYoyuxMCOrGTAnIHAlwGkIYHMb0vRz dC8wQQCQAQAYRAnA2ygQFKJ5CGEU0HclcRfBryhBLhEAcChxYShwdCwQ+wEAIcFtC4AwFS4BAjAg Qd8U0jsSAhAEcCE1TRVBD4AnCqADYBcAY3QQhDE2FiA1ZRIBAEGgAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAA AAMAgBD/////QAAHMGBbOZUJUr4BQAAIMGBbOZUJUr4BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA A4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMA JoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUA AAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAEz0= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE51D8.5D6C0A60-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:11:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16173 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:11:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07816; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:04:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07556 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:03:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.73]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990206200358.FWJJ682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:03:58 +1300 Message-ID: <36BCA083.1DF1@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 09:05:23 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3 Sulfur References: <9902051352109L.01686@www4.iname.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 158 Pam Soils and life are all about balance. And a complex balance it is too. Sulphur is just one of several elements which will acidify your soil. >From what I understand of US soils, the age of them and therefore their state of weathering along with the lack of rain fall in many areas leads to an unusual ( in relation to my part of the world anyway ) build up of either Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium or Sodium. Without water the anions - Sulphur, nitrogen and oxides do not become as active in attaching to the cation elements and allowing them to be leached out of the soil. So they build up. Sulphur being the 'loose or slippery being' that it is easily provides this service for you. While your statement is right it can also be a lack of rainfall which is the main cause of alkalinity. Glen A.pamdetray@email.com wrote: > > Every time I read this lecture, a question always hovers. > > In the past, I've used sulfur to balance the alkalinity of my soil, before the effects of all my composting here started to kick in. > > Is soil alkaline partly because of a lack of sulfur? Weren't the creative fingers moistened enough when the high desert here was created? > > Thanks, > Pam DeTray > > ----------------------------------------------- > FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:47:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16816 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:47:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13090; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:39:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12511 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:35:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109ESu-0000eZ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:36:33 -0800 Message-ID: <36BCA782.112DD061@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 12:35:14 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds References: <199902061349.IAA10265@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> <36BC6446.61EBCE41@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 159 My friends, Let me add a story here which my father and I witnessed in the Kanton of Valais, in Switzerland (around 1964). We visited a cauliflower farm where thousands and thousands of cauliflowers were 'manufactured. The had the size of a computer Monitor (not the flat ones!). While, in a corner, there was a concrete box of about 50' x 30' in which grew a lot of other plants plus some 100 small, relatively tiny cauliflower plants. Asked by my father whether this is a test site, the owner and producer replied laughingly: Do you really and honestly believe that I am eating the crap out there? It stinks when you cook it and think of all the stuff we put into it. No, my family and I we are eating the small stuff here. And he pointed at the 'text box'. He continued: I am getting paid for quantity and that's what the consumer wants. I couldn't make a living on those small heads. Suffice it to say that my father started to shout and our visit ended within seconds. So much for the fellow who has a family and works for a GE-company. One really must be totally naive to believe that guys who have a family and work for the chemical industry believe in the chemical industry. We are living in a truly schizophrenic society. If I would put a million dollars on the table, I bet that million, that many a green would get corrupted, too. I do not want to tell that story (it happened in the neighbourhood) where a staunch green clearcut his entire forest for a lousy $10,000.--. Money does a lot, indeed. Regards Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Steven McFadden wrote: > > > Both in corporate board rooms and socially I have spoken with people > > involved with bringing genetically engineered food and other products to the > > market. They turned out to be human beings with families and all the usual > > concerns. I found them to be sincere and enthusiastic about what they are > > doing. > > > > Maybe so, maybe so...but: I actually interacted with a man who Novartis hired > away from the university system and then turned loose to stalk the Internet on > their behalf. > > I'm making that up? Not hardly: once upon a time, while monitoring a supposed > alternative ag group, I kept noticing that every time I put in a plug for > earth-friendly farming he would immediately jump in to "explain" that toxic > chemicals aren't so bad after all. > > One day I asked what his purpose was. He responded with two points: 1) he liked > to piss me off (his words) and, 2) he intended to see that chemicals got a > "fair" shake. He was quite candid that doing the later was his job, while doing > the former was his recreation. > > Since then I have noticed other spokesmen for the drug and chemical industry > (based on their tireless championing of toxic technology), but I can't get them > to fess up that they're paid for it. The best I can do is observe the time > stamps on their messages. It quickly becomes apparent they're writing those > "hey guys, a little poison never hurt anybody" messages on company time. > > Steve, I highly respect you and your work. However, I would urge you to mount a > serious study into the agents of disinfomation working the Internet. There are > billions and billions of dollars at stake here and the big toxic sellers are not > going down without a fight. A conspiracy can be more than two guys getting > together to plot how to do you wrong. For instance, when giant companies A, B, > & C, all members of the Association of Chemical Manufacturers (or whatever), > independently send their detail men out to spread disinformation, I call that, > too, conspiracy. > > These people do not have our best interests at heart. They are there to make a > profit and only become interested in the enviornment when the toxic crap starts > seeping out of the ground neath *their* barbecue grill. > > And, to go back on topic, please discount a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g said by a GE seed > seller. I repeat: they *ain't* doing it for your health. > > Regards, > Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 19:22:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19300 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:22:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04345; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:14:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA03951 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109Hpx-00072Y-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:12:34 -0800 Message-ID: <36BCDA1E.8F0324D8@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:11:11 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 160 Dear Martha, The time is soon at hand when we really do not know anylonger: what is what because the geni is out of the bottle and the pollen is drifting all over the continent and earth. Soya is the worst followed by corn and other 'mass' crops. I do not know what method to use to shake the GE offspring out of the plant world or whether a plant can re-absorb GE manipulations. We will have to do a lot of BD-meditating and planting. Perhaps some of us should use GE plants and expose them to BD in order to find out what is going to happen to them under BD management. We must find an antidote. To be scared is not the answer (although I am, at times, too). We must be proactive and confront the challenge head on. Perhaps members of BD now know more about this problem. Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? > After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are 'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with some of the desirable traits this one has? > Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of our food? > Martha > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 19:27:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19341 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:27:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04992; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:19:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04842 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:18:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109Hwx-0000Ez-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:19:48 -0800 Message-ID: <36BCDBD0.744A6785@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:18:25 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: BD Preparations (test in glass jars) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 161 Some of you may remember that we discussed the radiating characteristics of BD Preparations. It was (in the fall of 1998) indicated that preparations may be put into a glass jar and then, put into a compost: the result would be a fine compost. Well, my test did not work out (yet) - perhaps never. Who knows. The compost with the glass jar inserted (all compost preparations in seperate jars in distances of about 3 feet or more apart) has not done too well. The one beside it, into which the Preps were inserted directly, is doing much better. Of course, the test will have to be re-done (several times). I will try it again. My question at that time was this: What is the advantage of putting the Preps into glass jars? They will expire anyhow. As you know, Preps have a relatively short shelf life IF not kept in peatmoss. I'd say that they may be exhausted (spiritually, like an old apple) after about 5 or so months. If you meditate beside fresh preparations (and an old batch) you can see the difference. Whereas the fresh, depending on what Prep it is, will oscillate vibrantly or glow (like yearrows for example) the long-term-exposed Prep may look like a piece of charcoal that is burning deep inside. some of the light may still glow from the centre towards the periphery. Well, more tests are necessary. However, I, personally, cannot afford to lose too many piles of compost (I did it on our horsemanure pile) and my future tests will have to be on smaller piles, something like 5 x 3 x 3. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 19:36:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19404 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA05843; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05691 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:26:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.5]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:37:05 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:28:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: roach remedies Message-ID: <3AC71B9E4B4674038525671100023CF1.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 162 Hello Friends, Would you advise the making of a pepper to get rid of roaches indoors? What are your thoughts on Roach bait pesticides (as if I have to ask...hydramethylnon)? I am talking about a small indoor space where there aren't too many roaches, but you know how that goes...plus humans and a cat! (Can't wait for Venus to be back in Scorpio I don't think) Thanks for any advice. I really do not like roaches and I lose my Buddhist tendencies when they're about! They bring out my retrograde side! Best Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 20:03:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19636 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:03:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA08466; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:55:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08172 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:53:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109IUi-0004qB-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:54:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36BCE3FA.C62E1360@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:53:15 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: roach remedies (Here is a suggestion) References: <3AC71B9E4B4674038525671100023CF1.0000000000000000@webcity> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 163 Do I ever feel with you, Jane! It will not be an easy answer and has a lot to do with our entire way of how we live. When I am in Hawaii or, recently, in Mexico, they made me shiver when running underneath the bed. They sound like Chips when you step on them........ it happened during the night. What would I do to get rid of them? Of course, as you know, there is a cause: food, humidity, unclean conditions (from neighbors for example where they run to to feed), animal feed, plants and so forth. Roaches are a very, very sensitive and tender group of beings. A Swiss (female) researcher has done a marvelous job observing their habits and procreation etc. and found that they are much more sensitive than assumed. As a matter of fact she showed that they are the first to be damaged when exposed to (so called safe) atomic power plants. She could show without a doubt that within several miles of an atomic power plant pretty much all roaches (and grasshoppers, butterflies etc.) are deformed. So, being highly sensitive, they must also be able to receive the tiniest application of homeopathic medicine or bug 'killer'. Do we want to fight fire with fire (the law of the simile)? We could do it but that may mean the death of at least one roach. So, if you are willing to sacrifice one roach, I'd make a fine mix out of it and shake it in water for, say 5 minutes. Then, add 9 units of water and shake the whole thing for a minute or two. (this is a D1 = solution, decimal). Now, take one unit (say 10 ml) out of it, add 9 ml and repeat the same process, again. Now, you have a D2. Go to a D3, D4, D5 all the way to, say a D12. This should not take longer than an hour. And now, spray this stuff in areas where the Roaches were living Or in the entire apartment. And now, you have to observe. I'd say, meditate on this for a while and find out whether you need a D12 or more or less. Each area, each animal etc. needs a somewhat different D-dilution. Incidentally, if there are suddenly more Roaches, you need to use a different dilution. When we use chemicals, we let the chemical company take care of our problem. With the purchase of a chemical killer (also other chemicals), we strengthen their influence (on us and our environment) and, in turn, weaken the efforts that help us 'green this planet'. We have incredible power at our disposal. Have you ever looked into the perfume and chemical cabinet at friends (when you pay a visit?) I sometimes do. There are hundreds of dollars of plant fertilizers, fungicides, herbicides, chemicals of all kinds, perfumes, sprays, traps etc. etc. in these closets. It is shocking. And now, add all these closets (costs) together. There must be hundreds of millions of dollars stowed away in those hideous gas chambers. Hope it did not get too long. Let me know whether my idea works. Regards Ferdinand PS It may be also significant on which day (or hour) you make the dilution. Can U do a bit research? Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Hello Friends, > Would you advise the making of a pepper to get rid of roaches indoors? What > are your thoughts on Roach bait pesticides (as if I have to > ask...hydramethylnon)? > > I am talking about a small indoor space where there aren't too many > roaches, but you know how that goes...plus humans and a cat! (Can't wait > for Venus to be back in Scorpio I don't think) > > Thanks for any advice. I really do not like roaches and I lose my Buddhist > tendencies when they're about! They bring out my retrograde side! > > Best Regards, > Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 20:25:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19879 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:25:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10602; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:16:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10299 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:13:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.5]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:23:50 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:15:04 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GE Message-ID: <396DB6AEE515118B852567110002D169.000674BC85256711@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 164 Thank you for your as usual thoughtful reply, Steven. I suppose I do sound as if I sit in judgement upon those involved in the business of GE. But please understand that my judgement is based upon heartfelt intuition and not logical examination of the facts. I don't believe this is necessary. Here in NY, this week 41 shots were fired into a black man as he stood in his doorway in the Bronx because he was SUSPECTED of reaching for a weapon after 4 white policemen decided that he looked like a suspected rapist. He had no weapon in his hand. Our mayor immediately defended these policemen and their actions. They have been assigned desk duty--no NOT taken off the force, pending investigation. Watching the news footage, it was shameful to see the malevolent grin on one of the officer's faces as the media looked on. I am ashamed of this police force which increasingly thinks that brute force and violence is the only path. I am ashamed of a mayor that would defend this police state "pending an investigation". I am appalled at the level of violence that has become acceptable in our society. Do I sit in judgement? Well, hell yes, I guess I do! But I don't think my words are sizzling rhetoric. There is nothing rhetorical about my belief that these people should be held accountable. I believe there are times when "judging" the immoral acts of individuals but even more importantly, of leaders (this includes the police force, politicians and giants of industry) is a necessity, no--it is our duty to stand up and be heard! To say to all those good folks who are " in those corporate labs and board rooms (who) are passionately certain they are motivated by basically good impulses" that there is more at stake here than the present concern for making money! It is just this sort of myopic vision that has brought us nuclear waste, political waste, and wasted resources. How many so called technological advances, all with good intentions, have brought a tide of death as a by product? When will our culture learn to look beyond the "bottom line" and immediate gratification? This is the real patience required here...that industry be held accountable BEFORE they release their inventions upon an unsuspecting public--especially one with such serious ramifications. Why must we wait till there is catastrophic proof to convince them of their immoral acts? I am tired of poor people being blamed for the welfare state. I am tired of the public being told if they don't like what some giant megalithic transnational corporation is doing that they merely shouldn't buy their product or buy their stock, or in fact, to wait and see. You so rightly and beautifully state "My personal call to action is clear -- acknowledge the problems and dangers,name them, and then put my energy into spreading the word and supporting what is life affirming: organics, biodynamics, and CSA." I would add that it is time to take a moral stand and yes, JUDGE them--not to punish but to name what is evil in the face of what is good. I see that there is danger here, because what is evil for me, is business as usual for another. Who is to say what is good and what is bad. But honestly, Steven, in your heart, do you believe that there is any good that can come from a giant business making money deceptively off the sweat of third world farmers, seducing them with fertilizer and cheap seed and taking away their connection to the cycle of life with the other hand? What good can the sowing of fear and distrust amongst farmer neighbors to be Monsanto's police bring to our cultures? "What part does it play in the larger spiritual evolution of humanity and the hoop?" you ask. Things have become so polarized, isn't that where we stand in the hoop? It is time to take a stand on this, Steven. You strike me as a leader. One doesn't have to believe in conspiracy theories or occult anything to see the overt antagonism to life with this GE mess. Their intentions aren't hidden in any way. You said so yourself, so why do you insist on non-judgement, on waiting for disaster to convince others that this is madness and folly? Yes, we must support the good Life affirming principles of community, gardening, csa's; but I believe it is time to take a stand and speak out against immoral materialist disregard of all that is sacred! Yes, by all means, let us affirm that which is good, but not in the absence of naming that which is evil! Respectfully, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 20:31:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19969 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:31:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA11134; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:21:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11026 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:21:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp249.cy-net.net [208.21.195.58]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA21783 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:36:17 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5205.DD7E2B20@FLYLO>; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:21:15 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5205.DD7E2B20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: roach remedies (Here is a suggestion) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:21:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE5205.DD7E2B20" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 165 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5205.DD7E2B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This idea is not going to appeal to everyone, however being in Central = Texas, roaches are usually a major problem. I have found that if I don't = make attempts to rid my close yards and corrals of fire ants, I don't = have a roach problem.=20 Most livestock raisers in our area have a terrible problem with = intestinal worms in their stock, and vets recommend deworming every 30 - = 45 days. I don't. I deworm the females (cattle, goats, llamas) the day they have = babies, while they're still penned away from the other stock, and not = exposing a worm medication to the general soil area.=20 I'm not quite ready to pronounce fire ants as beneficials yet, but I = think if we work with them, there is a lot more productivity to be had = than if we eradicate them along with the things they might be feeding = on. (roaches, worm egg cysts, etc.) When I lived in Central America, the ants would occasionally go on a = march and the locals just sealed everything up as best they could, left = the home for a day, and when they got back, ouila, no scorpions, = roaches, or other bugs that dwell close to mankind.=20 I admit I'm still not too happy when I see fire ants tending to their = aphid dairies on my eggplants, however. But, I know some eggplants are = more prone to attack, and I've learned which to avoid growing during the = prime fire ant season. Once again, I must apologize for my posts. My MS Office program seems to = be cratering and crumbling and parts are definitely missing that would = allow me to retool the Outlook formatting. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5205.DD7E2B20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig8BAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAKgAAAFJFOiByb2FjaCByZW1lZGllcyAoSGVyZSBpcyBhIHN1Z2dlc3Rp b24pAEYOAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcCAAYAEwAVAA4ABgAaAQEggAMADgAAAM8HAgAGABMACQAaAAYAGgEB CYABACEAAAAzMzU5NTYzQUVBQkREMjExQjExMTAwQzBGMDI5NjgyMQDxBgEDkAYAAAgAACEAAAAL AAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYMJwJzhS vgEeAHAAAQAAACoAAABSRTogcm9hY2ggcmVtZWRpZXMgKEhlcmUgaXMgYSBzdWdnZXN0aW9uKQAA AAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+UjgncDpWWTS96hHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAA HgAfDAEAAAASAAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQmC7EswMABxDBBAAAHgAIEAEAAABl AAAAVEhJU0lERUFJU05PVEdPSU5HVE9BUFBFQUxUT0VWRVJZT05FLEhPV0VWRVJCRUlOR0lOQ0VO VFJBTFRFWEFTLFJPQUNIRVNBUkVVU1VBTExZQU1BSk9SUFJPQkxFTUlIQVZFRgAAAAACAQkQAQAA ANQEAADQBAAAlAYAAExaRnX3qLhLdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxPlAoB9CoF1YwBQ CwMLYEBuZzEwMzMMYGyKbgIgZQumIFRoBAD0IGkBAGETAAQgEfAFQARnbwuAZyB0byA4YXBwEzAD IBQxZXYFBJB5EgEsIGhvdzEVAiBiZRPyC4AgQwkJ8HRyFKFUZXhhbnMVgANgANBoB5EKwGWQIHVz dQdAbHkUUGogAMBqBbFwA2ACYGVQbS4gSRWQYRUQIPECEHVuZBQgD4AFQAaQtRnhZAIgJwVAAMBr GED9GuB0GbAFMAQgFDEFEBqgmm0YwGMJAA+wIHkLEV8YARqRBaEW8QQgbxsgZv5pGDEAcBxwFYAb RhoTE0BvF6MZWAqiCoBNHWAFQGzGaRUQIgBvY2sXkAtw/w+wD6AWcghhGBITQCAlHDDtHmBpGZEZ ViAD8BrAFnGvHDAiAAuAFKF3BbBtIzP/GsAWMAXAInMVgB4CFRAccfsJcAWgbQeAGpEBACaSE/IJ FQMgMw/gLSA0NeEbUGF5cy4hhBtFGdI/KSQnEhpQGbAHQAeRKGN/HBEZoBWAE9Aa4BdxGKBh8QDA cykgLGMqoScSGMDdGhNiAaAIkBdxdxLQJOH9L0InGDEmIRigGVAJ8BIQ+RqgYXcvEQNSLGMToBfg 9ydrE5IXQHAdYBPyE0AsI+kHgGRpLUFpAiAUIixy7mcJ8ASQFKFzE+ADICPCmSFmSSclcBOScXUl oPsYQCPRZC8hFEAZYRHwGoD+YxpBHwYUUAQgFiASEB7wNmMHMQQgeQ/AFYBidf8FQBnwGsALgCKw GxEVwCaC9yKwJZMnIW0VgDMCGEAS4d8TQAkAG6EFsCTzZBCwJjD+diWgORMWIBoBGqMDoDyk/zaR NWMwoyVwB0ACIBQQPVadPDNnHIEvUilwZ2gFQL9AQSywNVEUAQIgGdAoF6XTMEEsMmVnFBBjKsAf YtEPwGMuKSGEVxfgA6DvGfAiMhqgFolBB4AFEC1A/z3jOkQmkBHQGqAikC1AAJDfAiAYkxPQRQEY 03IgwR4C7yxyCQAtQB6RahhgBUAPsN8s4RqgFQNDQxhQcDqUIgH/L0MFoEphLhEBcSxjFaAHgP8a USOhKpIn1DBgR8EvQxPQ/0RBANAnwQhgAxBJgRHwJ3D9BaFwNbEXeFMRBcAy9Dvg+0ODGuFkFcAx cR1EFDEDgdprC4BkN3cUUGQpcDwB/zgBMUQTkhQwFEAPgBRwGMD/UfMZ8A+wOeocMBqQE/UnJP8U YBLQKQELcAiBHqEDoB0R30ZBC1EfUxWlGdBCO/Afgv5rEfAH4DbgUNFdxxgTPvb/EhAUIwJAUuMe AjfwGjEZoN8KwDHSMGEgwRQydhPgGqD/CcAVsBPyP3AFEBQCLIEZYL8HcR7nTYI24EUgIYRPOcLs YWcLcR+CbU1SFGAI8fhnaXpQ5B0RNGEccBnQ9k0YwAXhTwEgNXAk8wnA/y5QWoImwUAUBQBBwWTz HgP8cnUG0CIwbHUKsWCFAQH/C4A4kRixKXAEEGUEGuFKRP8YkV+RUNEcog/AWZAUsSyB9k878AkA byKwUQEAwAJAfxPxKuVL8RrBIYRzqBEhafwzNgFAGWEcMD+QIYQQcQIAdjADABAQAAAAAAMAERAA AAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcw4G1qgTZSvgFAAAgw4G1qgTZSvgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAA AwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAO hQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBC gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAjAc= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5205.DD7E2B20-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 21:47:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA20685 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:47:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19329; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:39:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net (eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net [207.109.240.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19064 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:37:06 -0500 (EST) From: jrei@uswest.net Received: (qmail 10881 invoked by alias); 7 Feb 1999 02:38:30 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-bdnow@envirolink.org@fixme Received: (qmail 10873 invoked by uid 0); 7 Feb 1999 02:38:29 -0000 Received: from dialupb144.eugn.uswest.net (HELO pop.eugn.uswest.net) (209.180.176.144) by eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 1999 02:38:29 -0000 Message-ID: <36BCFBE1.A744D801@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 18:35:14 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 166 Martha, Don't mean to surprise you, but if you went through all of the gardening catalogs and took all of the open pollinated and the popular hybrid varieties that home and market gardeners have been growing for years and then looked at the seed of those varieties that was being grown/produced by companies that had active, ongoing genetic engineering projects, you would eliminate roughly 80% of those varieties. This is why smaller companies like ours have our own research projects based on traditional breeding methods to safely bring new OP and hybrid varieties to the market. As the large multinational companies have bought up smaller seed producers to increase their market share and to acquire germplasm, they have bought the companies that have produced these older varieties for years. The reality is, that if companies like ours do not buy these OP and other old favorites from them they will be discontinued and won't be available anywhere. These companies do have a distinct advantage in seed production with fields in the Southern hemisphere and have the size to quickly harvest and clean seed. If companies, like ours, would have to take on more of this production, the price of seed would increase quite dramatically. Joel @ TSC Martha Wells wrote: > Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? > After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are 'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with some of the desirable traits this one has? > Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of our food? > Martha > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 09:10:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26262 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:10:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21216; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:02:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20135 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:49:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33963-488>; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:50:21 -0400 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:50:21 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: Re: OFF NSOGA's Bio Tech Paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 167 Hi All; After my post the other day about the Nova Scotia Organic Grower's Assoc. Bio- Tech Paper..Janet Wallace got several responses from people on the BDNOW list. She sent me the following for those interested in obtaining a copy (copies)... This has been volunteer effort with writers across Canada finding time to do research and submit articles for this special publication...This is their way of contributing data for the consumer to read and understand what their food will be made of in the future... As Janet mentions she can't wait to have it out.. Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Janet Wallace wrote: > Hi Joan, > > I have just rec'd several messages following a message you sent to a > BD list-serv. I was wondering if you could send another message.. > Thanks -- it's going to the printers on Monday and I can't wait! > Janet > > > Saving Seed: genetic engineering & your food supply is a 24-page special > publication produced by the Nova Scotia Organic Growers Association. The > paper aims to describe the influence of genetic engineering on our food and > seed supply and suggest actions consumers can take. Specifically, Saving > Seed contains articles on genetically-modified organisms, Round-up ready > crops, Newleaf potatoes, Terminator technology, seedsaving, seed-sharing, > seedhouse consolidation and a list of seed companies that sell > open-pollinated seeds. > > If you would like a copy, please send $3.50 to: Janet Wallace, RR 1, > Margaretsville, NS, B0S 1N0. Canada. If you would like copies in bulk, > we are asking for $0.1.00/issue + shipping. > Please Email ahead for bulk so we can quote you a price for shipping and > handling. > > > > > Thanks, and if you have any questions, you can reach me at > > jwallace@istar.ca. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Janet Wallace > > > > Coordinator > > Nova Scotia Organic Growers Association > > http://www.gks.com/NSOGA > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 09:10:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26271 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:10:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21163; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:02:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19225 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr3-67-173.intrepid.net [206.102.67.173]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13814 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:24:32 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36BCDBD0.744A6785@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:11:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: BD Preparations (test in glass jars) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 168 >Well, more tests are necessary. However, I, personally, cannot afford to >lose too many piles of compost (I did it on our horsemanure pile) and my >future tests will have to be on smaller piles, something like 5 x 3 x 3. > >Regards Ferdinand Dear Ferdinand - Thanks for your efforts and observations! For my clarification: please explain to me how you would 'lose' a compost pile by doing this test. From my assumptions, I would think you could still put fresh preps into the essentially 'finished' pile and, if I remember correctly what Hugh Courtney told me, have compost which would carry the BD forces out to the field in relatively order. (I do understand that you have apparently lost the mediating power of the preps through the composting process.) Thanks -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 09:10:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26272 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:10:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21067; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:02:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19219 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:23:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr3-67-173.intrepid.net [206.102.67.173]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13809 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:24:28 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36BCFBE1.A744D801@pop.eugn.uswest.net> References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:59:34 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 169 Dear Joel Do you know anything more about this case in particular? > Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from >Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars but >with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? I wasn't clear from your response. Is this OP melon simply "previously owned" by Novartis, or is is "suspect" seed now, which would make FEDCO "suspect" as a seed supplier. (I admit, I'm starting to feel uneasy about dealing with 'coop' seed companies because it is so difficult for them to 'control' the education levels of their contributing memebers.) -Allan igg@igg.com >Martha, >Don't mean to surprise you, but if you went through all of the gardening >catalogs and took all of the open pollinated and the popular hybrid >varieties that home and market gardeners have been growing for years and >then looked at the seed of those varieties that was being grown/produced >by companies that had active, >ongoing genetic engineering projects, you would eliminate roughly 80% of >those varieties. This is why smaller companies like ours have our own >research projects based on traditional breeding methods to safely bring >new OP and hybrid varieties to the market. As the large multinational >companies have bought up smaller >seed producers to increase their market share and to acquire germplasm, >they have bought the companies that have produced these older varieties >for years. The reality is, that if companies like ours do not buy these OP >and other old favorites from them they will be discontinued and won't be >available anywhere. These >companies do have a distinct advantage in seed production with fields in >the Southern hemisphere and have the size to quickly harvest and clean >seed. If companies, like ours, would have to take on more of this >production, the price of seed would increase quite dramatically. >Joel @ TSC > > >Martha Wells wrote: > >> Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from >>Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars >>but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? >> After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is >>surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated >>varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are >>'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with >>some of the desirable traits this one has? >> Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside >>from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of our >>food? >> Martha >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef >> Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 09:38:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26453 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:38:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA24306; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA24017 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:28:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109VDp-00059p-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 06:30:05 -0800 Message-ID: <36BDA322.35B866F0@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 06:28:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD Preparations (test in glass jars) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 170 Dear Allan, If you do not inocculate a compost relatively soon, that is within a few weeks at least, you loose a lot of Nitrogen. In addition, as soon as manure is piled on high, it is starting to heat up. And you may get an anaerob or uneven decomposing process. I am often in awe when I see 'my BD composts' and, beside it, the small test compost which has to suffer through all kinds of 'illnesses' such as irregular decomposition, attack by weeds, rodents and, of course, the loss of N and other elements due to the inability to fix them properly. Field tests with composts that have been inocculated too late show very clearly that the crop is lacking in a variety of things (and not being a chemist or otherwise, but a simple man that observes) I can see huge difference whether this is on the grass field (meadows) or in the garden. I do not know what Hugh Courtenay said and one must be very specific. Personally, an old compost such as our horsemanure compost, will have to be integrated into a fresh compost and then I will inocculate it again. I'd never use it as such (at least on fields and vegetable patches). You invite too many pests, slugs and tiger worms etc. etc. Hope this will help. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >Well, more tests are necessary. However, I, personally, cannot afford to > >lose too many piles of compost (I did it on our horsemanure pile) and my > >future tests will have to be on smaller piles, something like 5 x 3 x 3. > > > >Regards Ferdinand > > Dear Ferdinand - Thanks for your efforts and observations! For my > clarification: please explain to me how you would 'lose' a compost pile by > doing this test. From my assumptions, I would think you could still put > fresh preps into the essentially 'finished' pile and, if I remember > correctly what Hugh Courtney told me, have compost which would carry the BD > forces out to the field in relatively order. (I do understand that you have > apparently lost the mediating power of the preps through the composting > process.) > > Thanks > > -Allan > igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 11:18:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA27244 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:18:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01535; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:06:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net (eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net [207.109.240.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01247 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) From: jrei@uswest.net Received: (qmail 1149 invoked by alias); 7 Feb 1999 16:05:07 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-bdnow@envirolink.org@fixme Received: (qmail 1122 invoked by uid 0); 7 Feb 1999 16:04:55 -0000 Received: from dialupb214.eugn.uswest.net (HELO pop.eugn.uswest.net) (209.180.176.214) by eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 1999 16:04:55 -0000 Message-ID: <36BDB8DE.CB466E13@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 08:01:35 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 171 Allan, I would have to go back in the records and look to find out the original company that bred Quetzali, but I have no reason to believe that it's any different now then it was when it was bred. My statement was to underscore the point that the large international seed companies have bought up most of the smaller companies that bred and introduced most of the older varieties. I think that most people would be astonished by the consolidation of seed companies over the past few years. It would be interesting to post such a chart and see what the reaction is. People must also realize that these large companies have many layers within the seed divisions. Companies like Novartis have divisions that serve the large commercial farmer with commodity seed like wheat and corn, the commercial vegetable farmers and finally the home gardener at the bottom. The people that manage the home garden divisions of these large companies are by in large intelligent, good people who have the best interests of the home gardener in mind. I personally know the manager for the home garden seed division of Novartis and we talked extensively at the ASTA meeting. They are all approaching the issue of GM varieties with kid gloves and will be very careful with any such introductions that can be accessed by the home gardener. Unfortunately after some of the posts that I have seen lately I feel that there is a general misunderstanding on how the vegetable seed industry has changed and just how it works. Lastly the work that FEDCO and other small seed companies do is vitally important and needs everyone's support. I'm sure they, like other conscientious seed companies, will make sure that there customers are kept fully informed. Regards, Joel Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Dear Joel > > Do you know anything more about this case in particular? > > > Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from > >Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars but > >with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? > > I wasn't clear from your response. Is this OP melon simply "previously > owned" by Novartis, or is is "suspect" seed now, which would make FEDCO > "suspect" as a seed supplier. (I admit, I'm starting to feel uneasy about > dealing with 'coop' seed companies because it is so difficult for them to > 'control' the education levels of their contributing memebers.) > > -Allan > igg@igg.com > > >Martha, > >Don't mean to surprise you, but if you went through all of the gardening > >catalogs and took all of the open pollinated and the popular hybrid > >varieties that home and market gardeners have been growing for years and > >then looked at the seed of those varieties that was being grown/produced > >by companies that had active, > >ongoing genetic engineering projects, you would eliminate roughly 80% of > >those varieties. This is why smaller companies like ours have our own > >research projects based on traditional breeding methods to safely bring > >new OP and hybrid varieties to the market. As the large multinational > >companies have bought up smaller > >seed producers to increase their market share and to acquire germplasm, > >they have bought the companies that have produced these older varieties > >for years. The reality is, that if companies like ours do not buy these OP > >and other old favorites from them they will be discontinued and won't be > >available anywhere. These > >companies do have a distinct advantage in seed production with fields in > >the Southern hemisphere and have the size to quickly harvest and clean > >seed. If companies, like ours, would have to take on more of this > >production, the price of seed would increase quite dramatically. > >Joel @ TSC > > > > > >Martha Wells wrote: > > > >> Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from > >>Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars > >>but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? > >> After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is > >>surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated > >>varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are > >>'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with > >>some of the desirable traits this one has? > >> Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside > >>from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of our > >>food? > >> Martha > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > >> Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 11:34:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA27375 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:33:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA02773; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:26:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02588 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.17]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:35:11 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:26:28 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: February 06, 1999 - February 12, 1999 Message-ID: <3A37A0AC50E2415D85256711005A4AD5.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id LAA02589 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 172 Calendar of the Soul [February 06, 1999 - February 12, 1999] Forty-fourth Week (February 2-8) In reaching for new sense attractions, Soul-clarity would fill, Mindful of spirit-birth attained, The world's bewildering, sprouting growth With the creative will of my own thinking. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Ergreifend neue Sinnesreize Erfüllet Seelenklarheit Eingedenk Vollzogener Geistgeburt, Verwirrend Sprossend Weltenwerden Mit meines Denkens Schöpferwillen. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+44 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 17:38:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01092 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:38:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10198; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:29:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10036 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:28:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-14.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.15]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id OAA12096 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:30:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902072230.OAA12096@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 13:14:03 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Definition of "Sustainable" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 173 Allan: A few days ago I suggested looking at Chinese methods of a few decades ago... The current ACRES USA carries a definition of "Sustainable" given by Lady Eve Balfour, one of the pioneers in the organic movement: "The criteria for a sustainable agriculture can be summed up in one word, 'permanence,' which means adopting techniques that maintain soil fertility indefinitely, that utilize as far as possible only renewable resources, that do not grossly pollute the enviornment, and that foster life energy [or if preferred, biological activity] within the soil and through the cycles of all the involved food chains." Woody From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 19:51:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA02492 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:51:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA26158; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:42:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ark.com (root@mars.ark.com [204.50.2.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25800 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:39:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.50.2.105] (io3p8.ark.com [204.50.2.105]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with SMTP id QAA04388 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:40:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199902080040.QAA04388@ark.com> Subject: moonwater Date: Sun, 7 Feb 99 16:41:01 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Lang Price To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 174 Hallo all: A friend of mine told me a while ago something about "Moonwater". This is water that has the influence of the light of the full moon before Easter in it. Apparently it has an incredible positive influence on plant growth and medicines etc. I am very interested in learning more about this, so would appreciate more info. Thank you. Marjan de Jong in wet British Columbia, Canada. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 20:18:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA02846 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:18:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA29717; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29329 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:06:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.24]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:16:56 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:08:08 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: (FWD) New York Gardens - Giuliani strikes again Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 175 ========================================================================= Hello, everyone, please take a moment to read this important notice about our city, and we hope you will sign the petition to preserve these lovely oases. Thanks - New York gardeners ************************************************************************* With 14,000 empty, buildable lots in New York City and only 750 community gardens, Mayor Giuliani plans to auction off over 120 thriving community gardens in May. This is the second auction in which gardens have been targeted. These gardens, many of them decades old, were established with the city's blessing on abandoned and vacant lots that had often been centers of drug and crime activity. New York City's gardens are known across the country. They are studied in our nation's schools. Their disappearance would mark not only a tragedy for the city, but would set a dangerous precedent for other cities across the country whose garden programs are struggling to survive. The Mayor thinks only a small minority care about the gardens. If he were made aware of the large numbers of people, not only in New York but across the nation, who care about this issue, he will be forced to reconsider his policies. Please take a moment to read this petition. Sign at the bottom if you agree and forward the petition to all the people you know who would support it. If you are the 50th, 100th, 150th...(etc) signature, please also e-mail the petition to: NYCgardens@cobite.com For more information about New York City community gardens and the efforts to save them, visit http://www.nycgardens.org/ PETITION IN SUPPORT OF NYC'S GARDENS Dear Mayor Giuliani, Community gardens represent one of the best and most all around positive developments in New York City. They are founded by working New Yorkers, thrive on principles of a true democracy, provide solace, learning, and pleasure to young and old, offer bridges across cultures and ethnic groups, offer space for a multitude of cultural activities, and turn neighborhoods and indeed the city as a whole into a more vibrant and healthy environment. New York's gardens have set a national example of innovative and successful public policy and urban renewal. They are studied and admired across the country. Their preservation represents a special opportunity to set a critical environmental benchmark in this issue and to evidence foresight for the cities of the future. We hereby ask that you withdraw the gardens from the auction list. Sincerely, 1. Myla Goldberg, Brooklyn, NY 2. Mark Leger, Brooklyn, NY 3. Julie Warsowe, Brooklyn, NY 4. Alan Chin, New York, NY 5. Jill Underwood, Brooklyn, NY 6. Ed Gilmartin, Brooklyn, NY 7. Daniel Kleinfeld, Manhattan, NY 8. Colin Young, Brooklyn, NY 9. Katherine Puma, New York, NY 10. Katherine Harber, New York, NY 11. Patrick Boyd, New York, NY 12. Jay Douglas, New York, NY 13. David Aron Damane, NY 14. Tim Albrecht, NY, NY 15. Dathan B. Williams 16. Gerry Geddes, NY, NY 17. Anthony Gaglione, Long Beach, NY 18. James Pericas, Long Beach, NY 19. Natalie Douglas, NYC, NY 20. D. Jay Bradley, Jersey City, NJ 20. Kate Strachan, NYC, NY 21. Allegra Millan, Brooklyn, NY 22. Patricia Hanley, NYC, NY 23. Terence Ford, Brooklyn, NY 24. Priso H. Epale, NY, NY 25. Rufus D. Muller NY, NY 26. Richard J. Sanchez NY, NY 27. Brian A. Nedvin CT 28. Anita Johnson, NY, NY 29. Claudia Waite, NY, NY 30. Timothy A. Bernard, Santa Rosa, CA 31. John Consedine, Santa Rosa, CA 32. Ben Gilbert, Santa Rosa, CA 33. Anne Atkinson, Santa Rosa, CA 34. Keith Johnson. Asheville, NC 35. Jane Sherry, NY, NY Don't forget that in order to 'sign' this petition, you need to cut and paste the entire message into a new e-mail, add your name and send the message. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 22:30:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04019 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:30:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17841; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:21:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17290 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.193] (pm3shep2-163-68.intrepid.net [209.190.163.68]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06038 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:19:09 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902072230.OAA12096@ns2.vphos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:05:37 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Definition of "Sustainable" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 176 >Allan: > >A few days ago I suggested looking at Chinese methods of a few decades ago... > >The current ACRES USA carries a definition of "Sustainable" given by Lady >Eve Balfour, one of the pioneers in the organic movement: "The criteria >for a sustainable agriculture can be summed up in one word, 'permanence,' >which means adopting techniques that maintain soil fertility indefinitely, >that utilize as far as possible only renewable resources, that do not >grossly pollute the enviornment, and that foster life energy [or if >preferred, biological activity] within the soil and through the cycles of >all the involved food chains." > >Woody Thanks, Woody. On the ATTRA home page they break the term down further by adding ECONOMIC and SOCIAL sustainability, in part, this means that the farm produces enough money to come back the next year and that a family doesn't have to put so much of their time into the farm that they fail as a family. Thanks for the definition. -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 22:30:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04028 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:30:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17735; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:20:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17278 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:17:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-182.s55.as2.hgt.erols.com [207.172.143.182]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id WAA13936 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:19:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36BE56E8.AFA05B6D@erols.com> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 22:15:52 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Re: Johnny's GE seeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 177 A few days ago I expressed concern that the companies that sell GE seeds were being portrayed as "just ordinary folks." I bluntly said that I think 'conspirators' is a more fitting label. Of course, while there are a few who understand my cause for alarm, there are others who automatically raise an eyebrow at the "C" word. Read this message and see if you can understand why I may never be able to back away from believing that Novartis and their ilk are conspirators. Can not even the most casual reader see that they would have the same 'concern' for our health in regards to GE seeds that they have with drugs? ----------------------------------------------------- Here's some info on Ritalin and ADD excerpted from "The Readers Digest", Dec 1998. "Only 5% of children have ADD yet in some schools 20% or more of the children may be on Ritalin" "Sales of methylphenidates (Ritalin) have increased from $109 million in 1992, to $336 million in 1996. Critics charge that the rush to Ritalin is spearheaded by both Novartis, the manufacturer of Ritalin and CHADD (Children and Adults with Attention Deficit Disorder), a 500 chapter non-profit organization that recieved $748,000 from 1991 to 1994 and $448,000 in 1995 from the drug company (Novartis)." "Most of the pamphlets in schools have been funded or provided by Novartis or CHADD". "Insurance Companies in the US have also facilitated ADD's over diagnosis and Ritalin's rise. First because they refuse to pay for the several hours it takes to properly diagnose the disorder and rule out other conditions; second because insurers reimburse for pills, yet reject costlier behavioural treatments or family counselling." "Younger teachers are far more prone to embrace the ADD diagnosis. They simply do not have the skills of managing the diverse needs of the size of class like teachers of the past." "Information has also come out that the schools actually recieve $400 per student that they successfully get onto Ritalin from the drug company as well. This is appalling." Just say no! Best of Health! Saul Pressman ----------------------------------------------------------- In closing, and although it's another topic, I'd like to mention that few people are aware that a child taking prescribed Ritalin is barred from later entry into the armed forces. Surely, even those who don't approve of the military understand that we can ill afford to hamstring our children without their knowing permission. Regards, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 22:30:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04029 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:30:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17897; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:21:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17308 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:17:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.193] (pm3shep2-163-68.intrepid.net [209.190.163.68]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06042 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:19:12 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36BDB8DE.CB466E13@pop.eugn.uswest.net> References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:13:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 178 Dear Joel - Sorry, again I don't know that I follow what you are saying below. Do you have time to clarity the concepts you think that some of us have missed? And what do you mean by "will make sure that their customers are kept fully informed."? Thanks for this post and for your time! -Allan igg@igg.com >They are all approaching the issue of GM varieties with kid gloves and >will be >very >careful with any such introductions that can be accessed by >the home >gardener. Unfortunately after some of the posts that I have seen >lately I feel >that there is a general misunderstanding on how the >vegetable seed industry has >changed and just how it works. Lastly the >work that FEDCO and other small seed >companies do is vitally important and needs everyone's support. I'm sure they, >like other conscientious seed companies, will make sure that there customers >are kept fully informed. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 10:40:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11853 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:40:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18091; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:31:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17466 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:27:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.203] (client-151-196-125-203.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.203]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA03459 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:29:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902081529.KAA03459@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:27:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 179 I want to acknowledge the harrowing tales and trends related in this thread by Rex and Ferdinand, and alluded to by Jane -- and to acknowledge also that, yes, these are just the tip of a massive corporate iceberg. Sunday's edition of The New York Times carried a story in the Week In Review section detailing how many hundreds of former CIA and KGB agents are now working together to provide "intelligence" for for transnational corporations. So, yes, I know this is real, even without judging the individuals. I've always assumed that our BDNow list is monitored, and would be surprised to learn otherwise. I think we are basically all together in our general view of corporate GE machinations and so forth, if not in what we consider to be appropriate and effective responses. If I understand correctly, the remark I made in my initial post that drew your attention and protests had to do with urging a period of 25 years of more of evaluation. So let me write a bit more about that. Though I may have expressed myself unclearly, never was it in my mind that the public ought to blissfully munch away on mutated food for a quarter of a century or more before forming an opinion. What I wanted to convey was the thought that Johnny's -- and every other corporation or individual involved with the whole vast scope of GE work -- take that period of time (at minimum) to pay attention and evaluate their intentions before putting any of this the widely out into the world. The GE genie is out of the bottle but good, and spread across the landscape (and the dinner plate). The whole GE THING I feel is an crucial, revolutionary and probably -- ultimately -- unstoppable impulse, signified cosmically at this stage by the transit of Uranus (and now Neptune) through Aquarius. The impulse to experiment with genes is in many respects Promethean (Uranian), and it surely involves hubris. This time the fire stolen from the gods is information and insight about the structure of life. Obviously this is a fire that can burn badly. And thus for me as subject that warrants philosophical inquiry as well as action of some kind. The GEnie is not going back in the bottle till something drastic happens -- and even then it seems unlikely to me the GEnie will get stuffed all the way back in. I am firm in my conviction that it would be the path of wisdom for the corps and scientists to slow down. Effete wishful thinking? Probably, but no more so than wishing that they would stop altogether, or even aggressively demanding that they stop altogether. We have the history of nuclear energy as kind of a parallel guide in this. I took my stand on these issues a long time ago. More recently Trauger Groh and I dedicated a lengthy and exhaustively researched chapter of "Farms of Tomorrow Revisited" to laying out the whole scope and impact of industrial ag and GE, as best we could picture them. But still it's only about 1/20th of the book. We had something else we wanted to say, something else we wanted to pour our energy into.... I write my letters to Congress, tell my friends, and speak to the GE issue when I'm in various public forums. But I get vivid feedback. Whenever I bring the subject up in public I see the audience's eyes glaze over and their bodies shift uncomfortably. They check out emotionally and intellectually. I feel as if I am alone in the room. The public doesn't know about this issue, and in the main it seems they actively don't want to know. The Hindu people have a concept called "Avidia" (sp?). Roughly translated it means "not wanting to know," usually because a particular truth is just too upsetting and painful. That's where I think the public is on GE seeds, food and organisms. I persist. I always metion the corporate GE axis and go into some detail -- but then, as I have come to learn what is effective, I shift gears and put the emphasis on what's in it for them -- and all of us -- going the route of organic, biodynamic, CSA, etc. That's what Trauger and I strove to do in our book as well. So in sum here's where I'm at. I acknnowledge GE food and corporate ag malfeasance as widespread and likely to increase. I condemn the actions but withold judgement of the people. I'm interested in all of this in a way and to a degree similar to my interest in the presidential impeachement trial. But it just doesn't take me very far, or anywhere I want to go. Again, I say to Johnny's and all the rest, consider the wisdom of extended patience and care. And again I affirm where I focusing my energy -- on what I see as new, healthier models that will render the existing obsolete. Respectfully, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 10:41:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11883 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:41:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18386; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:33:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18255 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:32:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from van-dsp-0163.direct.ca ([204.174.250.63] helo=ferdy) by edam.direct.ca with smtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109shd-0001hI-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:34:25 -0800 Message-ID: <36BFAC1D.107E@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:31:41 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE seeds References: <36BE56E8.AFA05B6D@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 180 Rex Harrill wrote: > > A few days ago I expressed concern that the companies that sell GE seeds > were being portrayed as "just ordinary folks." I bluntly said that I > think 'conspirators' is a more fitting label. Of course, while there are a few > who understand my cause for alarm, there are others who automatically > raise an eyebrow at the "C" word. > Dear Rex, I agree with you and on the other hand, I understand the (world) view of those who think that the folks at 'Roundup' are nice people. They may be nice people, but their deeds are corrupted. You see, we have come to a point in time where, to use Steiner's words, we have to become conscious. Conscious of what is going on. We must not assume! We ought to analyze more and more of what is going on and ask ourselves: Is the person next door, who is digging deep holes in his garden once a week, is he planting trees, is he digging the earth or is he throwing murdered people into it? (as happenen in Belgium or other places). We simply cannot assume any longer that the person with the nice face, the tye and suit, with the friendly smile is a good and wholesome person. The world is falling apart (within ourselves!). Many years ago I took part in a demonstration AGAINST nuclear power plants (in London) and some 700,000 people came together. It was impressive. Yet, the same people, demonstrating, used the equivalent of at least one week's production of electricity of a huge power plant, as we figured out afterwards. I felt ashamed. On one hand, I demonstrated against, and on the other, I used from the very same utility that produced the electricity. What a situation! What can be done? Ghandi comes to mind! We have to become conscious. Steiner said this at every possible moment! This, our age, is the dawn of the consciousness soul. We must ask ourselves how a thing does function; how it is made. He indicated in a lecture that, by using a switch, a simple light switch, by not knowing how this thing works, that we are acting antisocial. And I can see this more and more in what I, as an exmaple, are doing. Only if and when we become aware of what we are thinking, feeling and do, will there be a true light at the end of the tunnell and the spiritual world can offer new solutions. As long as we are happily assuming (because we like to be lulled into a good feeling), as long as we do not want to wake up, the spiritual world cannot help. It really cannot.It is far more important that we find out the truth about something than 'leaving good alone' - that sort of attitude will make the final pain much greater. I experience this on an almost daily basis. And those who believe that people at 'Roundup' are loveable folks are (as long as they do not take their deeds into cosideration) right. We in BD, and everybody for that mater, we must bring the world together again. We must demask mass schidzophrenia into which our society has fallen. That is one of our tasks. Kind regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 13:31:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16926 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:31:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA20861; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:23:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20376 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:21:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (tor-pm-1-20.netrover.com [205.209.27.20]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03082 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:22:31 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:17:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01be538f$443c8c00$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 181 I agree with Steven's thoughtful perspective....one which seems to understand the inexhorable nature of the working creative energy in our world, and trusting in its ways, ultimately.The non-judgemental attitude is key. Formerly, I have often thought in relationship to any widespread Life-contrary practises, that the "perpetrators", both wilful and unaware, might respond to an un-impassioned, amassed, documented critique of their doings and their projected implications in our common earthome. I do not mean to invoke a "shaming", but rather a specific- intent - of appealing to a final, perhaps latent, sense of integrity in those nvolved --- to at least consider the possibility that their programs and actions might result in no less a historical catastrophy than all the various holocausts already documented. Does any person/corporation really want it to be a matter of record that they participated, albeit unknowingly or dutifully, in such a dubious legacy? No doubt some will make that choice, unbending. That percentage who are capable of being stirred to question the Life-relevance of their beliefs/actions will likely only do so through a subconscious impulse.This impulse is backed by the natural compulsion which is the result of the kind of circum-STANCE which Steven describes, and no doubt, personifies to whatever extent. This is to be emulated; of course not just in our language. Effete? In effect, I don't think so. Never underestimate the power of spiritual expression! Doormat?- no. The effects of the seemingly unstoppable Promethean impulse are moderated by the degree of actualized faith in the Integrative process. In fact, I would say, that the seeming destructive thrashings are a [clumsy] reaction to the Integrative process...a kind of mimicking of creative nature inherent in all the cosmic cycles...wannabe-1-2. This is a significantly different perspective, and a challenging one to maintain/embody in daily life. regards. .......manfred palmer -----Original Message----- From: Steven McFadden To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds > >I want to acknowledge the harrowing tales and trends related in this thread >by Rex and Ferdinand, and alluded to by Jane -- and to acknowledge also >that, yes, these are just the tip of a massive corporate iceberg. Sunday's >edition of The New York Times carried a story in the Week In Review section >detailing how many hundreds of former CIA and KGB agents are now working >together to provide "intelligence" for for transnational corporations. > >So, yes, I know this is real, even without judging the individuals. I've >always assumed that our BDNow list is monitored, and would be surprised to >learn otherwise. > >I think we are basically all together in our general view of corporate GE >machinations and so forth, if not in what we consider to be appropriate and >effective responses. If I understand correctly, the remark I made in my >initial post that drew your attention and protests had to do with urging a >period of 25 years of more of evaluation. So let me write a bit more about >that. > >Though I may have expressed myself unclearly, never was it in my mind that >the public ought to blissfully munch away on mutated food for a quarter of a >century or more before forming an opinion. What I wanted to convey was the >thought that Johnny's -- and every other corporation or individual involved >with the whole vast scope of GE work -- take that period of time (at >minimum) to pay attention and evaluate their intentions before putting any >of this the widely out into the world. > >The GE genie is out of the bottle but good, and spread across the landscape >(and the dinner plate). The whole GE THING I feel is an crucial, >revolutionary and probably -- ultimately -- unstoppable impulse, signified >cosmically at this stage by the transit of Uranus (and now Neptune) through >Aquarius. The impulse to experiment with genes is in many respects >Promethean (Uranian), and it surely involves hubris. This time the fire >stolen from the gods is information and insight about the structure of life. >Obviously this is a fire that can burn badly. And thus for me as subject >that warrants philosophical inquiry as well as action of some kind. > >The GEnie is not going back in the bottle till something drastic happens -- >and even then it seems unlikely to me the GEnie will get stuffed all the way >back in. I am firm in my conviction that it would be the path of wisdom >for the corps and scientists to slow down. Effete wishful thinking? >Probably, but no more so than wishing that they would stop altogether, or >even aggressively demanding that they stop altogether. We have the history >of nuclear energy as kind of a parallel guide in this. > >I took my stand on these issues a long time ago. More recently Trauger Groh >and I dedicated a lengthy and exhaustively researched chapter of "Farms of >Tomorrow Revisited" to laying out the whole scope and impact of industrial >ag and GE, as best we could picture them. But still it's only about 1/20th >of the book. We had something else we wanted to say, something else we >wanted to pour our energy into.... > >I write my letters to Congress, tell my friends, and speak to the GE issue >when I'm in various public forums. But I get vivid feedback. Whenever I >bring the subject up in public I see the audience's eyes glaze over and >their bodies shift uncomfortably. They check out emotionally and >intellectually. I feel as if I am alone in the room. The public doesn't >know about this issue, and in the main it seems they actively don't want to >know. The Hindu people have a concept called "Avidia" (sp?). Roughly >translated it means "not wanting to know," usually because a particular >truth is just too upsetting and painful. That's where I think the public is >on GE seeds, food and organisms. > >I persist. I always metion the corporate GE axis and go into some detail >-- but then, as I have come to learn what is effective, I shift gears and >put the emphasis on what's in it for them -- and all of us -- going the >route of organic, biodynamic, CSA, etc. That's what Trauger and I strove >to do in our book as well. > >So in sum here's where I'm at. I acknnowledge GE food and corporate ag >malfeasance as widespread and likely to increase. I condemn the actions but >withold judgement of the people. I'm interested in all of this in a way and >to a degree similar to my interest in the presidential impeachement trial. >But it just doesn't take me very far, or anywhere I want to go. Again, I >say to Johnny's and all the rest, consider the wisdom of extended patience >and care. And again I affirm where I focusing my energy -- on what I see as >new, healthier models that will render the existing obsolete. > >Respectfully, Steven > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 13:46:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA17462 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:46:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA23674; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:38:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23190 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:35:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.169] (pm3shep1-163-52.intrepid.net [209.190.163.52]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23818 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:37:11 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01be538f$443c8c00$LocalHost@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:37:58 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 182 Manfred Palmer wrote: >Formerly, I have often thought in relationship to any widespread >Life-contrary practises, that the "perpetrators", both wilful and unaware, >might respond to an un-impassioned, amassed, documented critique of their >doings and their projected implications in our common earthome. >I do not mean to invoke a "shaming", but rather a specific- intent - of >appealing to a final, perhaps latent, sense of integrity in those >nvolved --- to at least consider the possibility that their programs and >actions might result in no less a historical catastrophy than all the >various holocausts already documented. > > Does any person/corporation really want it to be a matter of record that >they participated, albeit unknowingly or dutifully, in such a dubious >legacy? >No doubt some will make that choice, unbending. > >That percentage who are capable of being stirred to question the >Life-relevance of their beliefs/actions will likely only do so through a >subconscious impulse.This impulse is backed by the natural compulsion which >is the result of the kind of circum-STANCE which Steven describes, and no >doubt, personifies to whatever extent. This is the basis of my request that we be vocal and numerous in responding to Robert Johnston and Johnny's Seeds proposal to carry 'some' GE seed. Johnny's is a 'edge' seed company, but one that is very much present in the US organic industry. Robert Johnston is one GE advocate who may reconsider 'supporting' this woefully unexamined movement if he had either an 'ethical awakening' or a vision of loss of revenue that was brought about by the raising of articulate voice like we have on this list. Is anyone game for drafting a group letter to Johnny's Seed in response to the earlier postings by them? -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 14:10:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18041 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28570; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:02:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd93.hotmail.com [207.82.252.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27807 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:58:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 25687 invoked by uid 0); 8 Feb 1999 18:59:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19990208185927.25686.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:59:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3 Sulfur Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:59:27 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 183 Dear Ferdinand, So eloquently put. Excuse me for evesdropping on your mail to Pam, but something so un-selfish that looks to the central theme and problems of our current world, I cannot resist. While I would want to repsond with a emotional outburst of rage at humans who have overpopulated and still continue to do so with Mother Earth, you state the problem as is without passing judgement. Only wisdom can make such observation. It is that wisdom, I wish to consult. Wisdom that knows the current state of affairs must surley understand the attributes of the causes that led to this state. And if those causes are known, then surley a remedy to mediate and reverse somewhat the current state to a more sustaining level. A remedy such as this would be a landmark in human history. One that breaks the chain of remedies of civilization whose only solution is death and destruction. Is it possible to know and reverse that cause? Are humans the next dinosour? How do we live within environment without affecting her? And if we do so and create a place where the spirit freely moves, how do we secure that place for future generations to learn, ie. to protect it from the greedy that would gladly use it up, toss it away, and then go and threaten their friends and neighbors with dollars and cents. Is it possible? I do no wish to echo the sentiments of Ecclesiastics but please, please show me. I am a child and do not know how. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 14:50:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18765 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA05964; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05210 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA05338; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:39:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:39:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org cc: igg@igg.com Subject: OFF / [globalnews] Re: New Report by Alliance for Environmental Innovation (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 184 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:24:03 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Phillips Reply-To: globalnews@egroups.com To: globalnews@egroups.com Cc: andrew.phillips@nyu.edu Subject: [globalnews] Re: New Report by Alliance for Environmental Innovation Y2K AND THE FERAL , (A shaman interpretation) As Y2K approaches our reliance on civilization as we currently understand it becomes clear. Y2K can be a metaphor that helps us understand how far removed we've become from Nature and how out of control we are when not connected to the machine. The silicon intelligence that runs computers has no soul. And it does not collect all the information. For instance, digital technology samples frequencies but as it does it eliminates information in ways analog technology does not. And our physical (analog) world is increasingly colonized by digital intelligence - systems that will shut down if their electric memory is not active. We have downloaded enourmous quantities of information into the machine. Lots of information accumulated and linked can become knowledge and with knowledge learned and intuited grows wisdom. I don't believe the machine will ever have wisdom but it seems to have knowledge. Don't know about (artificial) intelligence or even if that matters for it seems we are creating a different kind of "creature" which bypasses wisdom - cannot have it - for wisdom is linked to soul and feeling. Does silicon have its own soul? I think not. Not yet. Tracy Kidder's book "Soul of the New Machine" and more recent titles imply the machine could have soul but this is anthropomorphic interpretion - the machine is not and will never be human - we are human and our bodies are the outward manifestations of soul and spirit - of energy that will always be - transmuted to body, soul and memory. Increasingly I find memory to be an intriguing aspect to humanness. For it is through memory that we are able to interpret our world ourwardly. It is in dreams and imagination that we are "reminded" and connected to a larger intelligence that most of don't understand and certainly the machine doesn't. There will be some upheaval in the new year - and think how artificial is the new year - the millennium - it is just another natural cycle on which we have superimposed our way of thinking. The hysteria and paranoia is understandable and no doubt the press will be full of Y2K in coming weeks and months. It might be a good idea to stock up on some basics and think about water. Shit! can you believe this? And it might be a good idea to keep off the streets - clear out maybe - because if the system does go down the outburst on the streets won't be pretty. But this is the edge we all walk in this civilization. We are already marginalized - becoming more so in most cases. The edge may become more difficult to walk, to maintain balance as the State pushes into our lives more deeply. We need to be aware of what is happening around us, in our very community - who we are and what we are doing and how we might survive, better yet prosper in this atmosphere. It makes me realize how important it is to maintain some contact with Nature and with Earth; with the natural-earth qualities we share with each other. We are a feral lot out here on Underhill. Some have chosen this path and others have simply found themselves traveling in similar directions but something we seem to have in common is a sense of the feral and a delight in music, art, theater and sensuous delights in this spinning vortex we find ourselves. And so I've included some pagan ideas that may help link us in other ways to the world we all share. Andrew. Feral (from L. ferus, wild) 1 term applied to wild animals descended from tame stock, or to animals having become wild from a state of domestication or plants from a state of cultivation. 2 wild by nature, untamed; existing in a state of nature. 3 savage, brutal. Candlemas (Imbolc) According to the witches' calendar February is a time of passage, a prelude to birth, a time to expiate the souls of the dead and for personal and spiritual purification. In Roman times it was celebrated in a festival called LUPERCALIA overseen by priests called LUPERCI who took strips of goat skin and raced naked from the legendary grotto where ROMULUS and REMUS were suckled by a wolf - they lay the lash across the backs and buttocks of any woman they encounter thus assuring their fertility. This pagan ceremony was adopted by the Roman church and became THE PRESENTATION OF THE LORD. The goddess FEBRUA was evidently LUNIUS FEBRUATA also called LUNIO SOSPITA the savior. The celebration of her temple was with a procession of torches which became a procession of candles from every parish - a penitential procession to exorcise resurgent licentiousness and canal pagan behavior. But the candle is linked more deeply with a symbol of new life that reappears in nature by divine grace. CANDLEMAS (IMBOLC) with its flickering candles is linked to the leather straps brandished by the LUPERCI - the central candle from which the others are lit is the connection to the spirit of nature and the fertile essence. Fire is a symbol of divine energy and the cosmos. In March, according to the ancients, the perpetual fire of VESTA was extinguished and then relit but rubbing sticks, one of which had to be a fruit-bearing branch, to relight the flame - a metaphor for life and death. Oils of purification to anoint candles - 1/8th cup almond or olive oil 3 drop juniper oil 2 drops eucalyptus oil 1 drop pine oil Mix and anoint candles. Add benzoin tincuture as preservative and store in fridge." (From Llwellyn's 1999 Witches' Calendar - Llewellyn Publications P.O. BOX 64383, St. Paul MN 55164-0383) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fresh flowers are the perfect way to say "I love you". Shipped direct from the grower, Proflowers.com has arrangements from $29.95 plus S&H. Click here: http://offers.egroups.com/click/216/0 eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/globalnews Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 14:59:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19063 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA08514; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:51:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07871 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:48:34 -0500 (EST) From: OrgAgCons@aol.com Received: from OrgAgCons@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PCZKa20087 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:48:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9d14cabe.36bf3f93@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:48:35 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Agricultural Parks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 185 Dear Sirs, I am looking for information on an agricultural growing system were several farmers share the same land, invest together in equipment, market together and possibly have a compost operation together. This model could be anywhere U.S., Europe,ect. It could be Bio-Dynamic, organic or conventional If any has any information please contact me at my e-mail address OrgAgCons@aol.com or call me at 360-647-5779 Many thanks David Hamilton From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 15:01:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19155 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:01:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09248; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:54:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08571 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay01912435.acay.com.au [203.19.124.35]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA04035 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 04:10:01 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 06:53:33 +1100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: the error of their ways MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 186 To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the corporate giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end results of those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically detailed. And yet they do not 'see'. Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. They have no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum dollars regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals seem to become insatiable entities. I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of greater creative enery flows? Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 16:13:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20915 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24508; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:05:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24168 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:03:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-70.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.70]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA23399 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:05:12 +1100 Message-ID: <000001be53a6$a6764d40$46431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: Demeter quote Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:23:25 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 187 Dear Alan, Just catching up on my backlog of messages. Don't know if you got a Demeter answer, but I quote you the one that has been used in NZ and is quite succinct. "Food bearing the Demeter symbol has been grown according to the strict standards of organic husbandry. The aim of Bio-Dynamic Agriculture is to restore and maintain the vitality and living fertility of our soils, and in so doing produce foods of the highest nutritional value." I would maybe put a mention of working with cosmic forces... but then one starts to get complicated . Best wishes, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Friday, 5 February 1999 8:56 am Subject: Honeybee Quote >Not giving up with the lack of enthusiasm about defining Demeter >Certification, I'm looking for your favorite quote about THE HONEYBEE. One >from RS would be most welcomed, but what else do you have? > >-Allan Balliett >igg@igg.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 22:02:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA26769 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:02:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16229; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:51:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15762 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:48:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10A3Fc-0007AT-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:50:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36BFA218.AFFD4B2C@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 18:48:56 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3 Sulfur References: <19990208185927.25686.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 188 Dear Michael and all, Overpopulation is a very specific challenge to which wo-mankind has been exposed for the past 150 to 200 years. But it happened before, too. (Africa, Egypt etc. etc.) You see, we all have a physical body (at least those of us who live on this earth and can see and touch etc. each other). Now, that body follows certain rhythms. I have read somewhere that there are at least 270 measurable daily/weekly/monthly etc. rythms in our body (Liver, heart, brain, breathing, excretion, digestion, sweating, heartbeat to name only a few) there are micro-rhythms that are on top of general rythms such as the heart's. The heart beat is faster during the day than the night, and during illnesses it changes its rythm again, or during the period and so forth. Eons ago, our body members have all joined together in this symphony of rhythms. And each member, eyes, arms, veins, skin and so forth has given up a bit of its 'egotistic' selfish life so that we, as human spirits, can 'slip' (at the moment of birth) into this artful collection of body'parts'. Our temple is a work of art and needs to be treated with great care. Now, if you interrupt the rhythm of your sleep/wake life, if you eat chunk food, if you take drugs, listen to super loud music and so forth, if you start polluting your system with aggresive movies etc. you trigger a defense mechanism which is called PROCREATION (it is a wonderful word though) but, procreation manifested in excess leads to hyper sex and so forth, since the body wants to pass itself on. The body, in other words, wants to repair itself with a new body (reproduce). And if we pollute the atmosphere, or a political system (in Africa for example) we cause a disruption in the life of those who live there and, voila, the procreational forces go out of balance. Babyboomers come to mind.....! When we were kids we put white mice into a metal container and we quickly found out how to breed a lot of them fast....! The worse the condition the faster they would multiply - ! And so, this overpopulation thing is done to us by ourselves (perhaps not only but, with at least some very powerful management behind it - Anthroposophy brings in Ahriman - the prince of matter, if we would want to call it that way). So, remember, over pupulation does not happen because mankind is 'bad' per se. It is happening because we have fallen for materialism. The more we indulge into materialism the more we have to procreate because materialism works against our life (forces). It destroys the very basis of our life. And profiteering (as do the large corporations - and the small ones too, for that matter) is another form of materialism. If you believe in money and not in the spiritual aspect of money you are the worst materialist of all. Sorry for the detour - away from sulphur. But, BD wishes toa harmoniously balance this planet and, ultimately, bring about a sustainable number of people on this earth. I am convinced that this earth could easily support 10 billion people IF we would work it with mother earth in mind. There are 3 million people in British Columbia today. If that land was as populated as densely Switzerland (let alone Holland) it could be home of over one hundred million people. And BC is a fraction of Canada. Michael Smith wrote: > Dear Ferdinand, > > So eloquently put. Excuse me for evesdropping on your mail to Pam, but > something so un-selfish that looks to the central theme and problems of > our current world, I cannot resist. > > While I would want to repsond with a emotional outburst of rage at > humans who have overpopulated and still continue to do so with Mother > Earth, you state the problem as is without passing judgement. Only > wisdom can make such observation. > > It is that wisdom, I wish to consult. Wisdom that knows the current > state of affairs must surley understand the attributes of the causes > that led to this state. And if those causes are known, then surley a > remedy to mediate and reverse somewhat the current state to a more > sustaining level. A remedy such as this would be a landmark in human > history. One that breaks the chain of remedies of civilization whose > only solution is death and destruction. > > Is it possible to know and reverse that cause? Are humans the next > dinosour? Well, that would be something rather special since the Dinosaurs survived for millions and millions of years. They must have done something right, my friend. > How do we live within environment without affecting her? And if we do > so and create a place where the spirit freely moves, how do we secure > that place for future generations to learn, ie. to protect it from the > greedy that would gladly use it up, toss it away, and then go and > threaten their friends and neighbors with dollars and cents. Is it > possible? I do no wish to echo the sentiments of Ecclesiastics but > please, please show me. I am a child and do not know how. > Honest to God, Michael, if I knew, nobody would believe. And if I would do it, live it, it would take time to prove it and most of us would not be able to see the end - the good end I mean. I think that deep in our hearts we know how to live a balanced life, yet, it ain't easy. We all have come to learn. And we all a huge Karmic 'club' here with our Mother Earth. But, don't worry, what appears to be 'bad' right now, is a learning process that has been 'fortold' for millenias. And following Steiner, there are many,many more Millenias to come. One thing is for sure though: death and taxes....! Regards Ferdinand > Sincerely, > Michael. > > > You know, the creator spirits did not think that man would live just > about everywhere and, in some cases, want to grow tomatoes on the North > Pole or strawberries in the jugle. We, human beings, want to live just > about everywhere AND grow potatoes in the desert or whatever. The > spirits of creation produced marvellous areas such as the Nile Delta, > certain areas in the Prairies or along the coasts and so forth on which > people could grow a multitude of vegetables, wheat, corn and so forth. > But then they started to move into the mountains, cut off the trees and > changed the bio-balance greatly. Some of us may live in areas where our > forefathers&mothers eeked out their sparce living..... and the soil may > still be good. Some of us may live in areas (such as yours) that was > forests only and, may be, the hunter(s) and gatherers could survive. > They needed vast areas to live in and they had to move on and on and on. > A special kind of life. And then, modern man started to settle into the > gatherer's area and started to produce whatever. Made composts and the > like. Well, I, too, am living in an area that (historically) would not > have supported too many a family on an acre, perhaps 1/8th of a person > per acre, if at all. Fish, fowl, bear, deer and the odd skunk (I > wouldn't eat them of course) would have made it possible for my > forebears to live here. A bit of vegetables, too. But nothing like corn, > wheat, potatoes or any starchy stuff. The soil is as acid as a lemon, in > this part of the world. Forest soil. and it took us years to 'neutralize > it'. And if we leave, it will go back to a pH 3.5 or > less. We limed, we spread ashes, we aereated, we dug, we composted, we > drained and worked hard to bring the pH up to the present 5.8 or > 6.5 and we are still far below the ideal level. Winter rain, > moss growth, the proximity of the forest and some pollution (thinking of > the paper mills....) will make our battle a long one. I do not know > whether I have said anything you can use here. > > Regards Ferdinand> > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 22:42:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA27218 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA20997; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:32:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20614 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:30:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10A3th-0005Wf-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:31:37 -0800 Message-ID: <36BFABCB.C2A1CECD@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:30:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: the error of their ways References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 189 Dear Margaret, It is very unfortunate, but the Nurnberg trials revealed it 'clearly': The Second World War i.e. Nazi Germany, was nobody's fault. Everybody did his job according to job description and what he/she was told. The machinery was directed to accomplish a certain mission. The troups marched on and (refering to another post) there must have been millions and millions of 'good Germans' 'nice Germans' 'church going Germans' etc. etc. who were caught in the system, too. How many did prevent it from going berserk? I am afraid that our small circle with this handful of BDers (and the many BDers and other natural ERs) will - in due course, be treated in about the same way as those who tried to prevent Hitler from doing his job. This time, however, mankaind (chemical corporations, business world and all of us who do not want to become conscious of what is going on) are not fighting another nation (or nations). This time around, we are fighing nature (and the beings behind it), and with it the Christ forces. The outcome is clear. The problem, however, is the same as 60 years ago with Hitler: how to tell the Fuehrer? He is blind, Madam! And he took Germany all the way into the abyss. Have you ever looked at the aereal photographs of some Germany cities after WW2? Well, do you see a comparison with our destroyed forests, fertile land, parks etc. etc.? Yet, don't despair! There will be an end to this insanity (also in due course). Those of us who know that they are on the right track with BD, with natural farming, with the glorification of nature, keep on doing what you believe is right. The end is nigh, yet, a new beginning, too. Respectfully submitted: Ferdinand Vondruska Margaret Kemp wrote: > To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, > Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the corporate > giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end results of > those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically detailed. And > yet they do not 'see'. > Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. They have > no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum dollars > regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals seem to > become insatiable entities. > I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of greater > creative enery flows? > Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 22:47:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA27251 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:47:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA21525; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:38:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21330 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10A3zm-0002kK-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:37:54 -0800 Message-ID: <36BFAD46.C18EBFFC@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:36:38 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds References: <199902081529.KAA03459@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 190 Many thanks, Steven. Ferdinand Steven McFadden wrote: > I want to acknowledge the harrowing tales and trends related in this thread > by Rex and Ferdinand, and alluded to by Jane -- and to acknowledge also > that, yes, these are just the tip of a massive corporate iceberg. Sunday's > edition of The New York Times carried a story in the Week In Review section > detailing how many hundreds of former CIA and KGB agents are now working > together to provide "intelligence" for for transnational corporations. > > So, yes, I know this is real, even without judging the individuals. I've > always assumed that our BDNow list is monitored, and would be surprised to > learn otherwise. > > I think we are basically all together in our general view of corporate GE > machinations and so forth, if not in what we consider to be appropriate and > effective responses. If I understand correctly, the remark I made in my > initial post that drew your attention and protests had to do with urging a > period of 25 years of more of evaluation. So let me write a bit more about > that. > > Though I may have expressed myself unclearly, never was it in my mind that > the public ought to blissfully munch away on mutated food for a quarter of a > century or more before forming an opinion. What I wanted to convey was the > thought that Johnny's -- and every other corporation or individual involved > with the whole vast scope of GE work -- take that period of time (at > minimum) to pay attention and evaluate their intentions before putting any > of this the widely out into the world. > > The GE genie is out of the bottle but good, and spread across the landscape > (and the dinner plate). The whole GE THING I feel is an crucial, > revolutionary and probably -- ultimately -- unstoppable impulse, signified > cosmically at this stage by the transit of Uranus (and now Neptune) through > Aquarius. The impulse to experiment with genes is in many respects > Promethean (Uranian), and it surely involves hubris. This time the fire > stolen from the gods is information and insight about the structure of life. > Obviously this is a fire that can burn badly. And thus for me as subject > that warrants philosophical inquiry as well as action of some kind. > > The GEnie is not going back in the bottle till something drastic happens -- > and even then it seems unlikely to me the GEnie will get stuffed all the way > back in. I am firm in my conviction that it would be the path of wisdom > for the corps and scientists to slow down. Effete wishful thinking? > Probably, but no more so than wishing that they would stop altogether, or > even aggressively demanding that they stop altogether. We have the history > of nuclear energy as kind of a parallel guide in this. > > I took my stand on these issues a long time ago. More recently Trauger Groh > and I dedicated a lengthy and exhaustively researched chapter of "Farms of > Tomorrow Revisited" to laying out the whole scope and impact of industrial > ag and GE, as best we could picture them. But still it's only about 1/20th > of the book. We had something else we wanted to say, something else we > wanted to pour our energy into.... > > I write my letters to Congress, tell my friends, and speak to the GE issue > when I'm in various public forums. But I get vivid feedback. Whenever I > bring the subject up in public I see the audience's eyes glaze over and > their bodies shift uncomfortably. They check out emotionally and > intellectually. I feel as if I am alone in the room. The public doesn't > know about this issue, and in the main it seems they actively don't want to > know. The Hindu people have a concept called "Avidia" (sp?). Roughly > translated it means "not wanting to know," usually because a particular > truth is just too upsetting and painful. That's where I think the public is > on GE seeds, food and organisms. > > I persist. I always metion the corporate GE axis and go into some detail > -- but then, as I have come to learn what is effective, I shift gears and > put the emphasis on what's in it for them -- and all of us -- going the > route of organic, biodynamic, CSA, etc. That's what Trauger and I strove > to do in our book as well. > > So in sum here's where I'm at. I acknnowledge GE food and corporate ag > malfeasance as widespread and likely to increase. I condemn the actions but > withold judgement of the people. I'm interested in all of this in a way and > to a degree similar to my interest in the presidential impeachement trial. > But it just doesn't take me very far, or anywhere I want to go. Again, I > say to Johnny's and all the rest, consider the wisdom of extended patience > and care. And again I affirm where I focusing my energy -- on what I see as > new, healthier models that will render the existing obsolete. > > Respectfully, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 07:00:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA01585 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA27461; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:50:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA27331 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:47:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.167] (pm3shep1-163-58.intrepid.net [209.190.163.58]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA21815 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:48:46 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:48:25 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: FWD: Permaculture Design Certification Course Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 191 ****************************************************************************** Permaculture Design Certification course in Pojoaque, New Mexico May 1-14, 1999 ****************************************************************************** The Permaculture Institute,USA is proud to announce its first residential intensive two week design certification course. It will be offered on the property of an intentional community Casa Las Barrancas in Pojoaque, which is being developed as a permaculture demonstration site. Course topics include but are not limited to: * Permaculture Philosophy, Ethics, and Principles * Methodology of Design - observation, deduction, random assembly, zoning, etc * Reading the Landscape, Site Analysis, Mapping * Principles of Natural Systems, * Patterns in Nature, Society, Culture - understanding and application * Water in Landscape * Soil Building, Erosion Control, Earthworks * Forest, Trees and Their Energy Transactions * Building Design, Appropriate Technologies * Designing the Productive Home System * Useful Plants and Animals, Aquaculture * Invisible Structures, Village Design, Community Economics * Local Trading Systems, Urban Permaculture This course will have strong emphasis on hands-on exercises after classes on the community wetlands, field, orchards, and gardens. The exercises will include * water catchment and channeling, * planning and planting a windbreak, * plant identification, * laying out a key-hole/ mandala garden, * building a herb spiral * and possibly a straw-bale wall raising. The community land has many design challenges for the class to examine - strong seasonal winds, highly variable microclimates, and erosion potential. This course aims to provide students with a strong foundation to create their own sustainable living situation in this unstable world. ******************** Course facilitators : Scott Pittman, founder of the Permaculture Institute, who has 13 years of experience of teaching, designing and living permaculture on 4 continents with indigenous people, an expert on the field of large scale land bio-remediation, holistic property design, alternative building, earthworks and invisible structures. Joel Glansberg, well known teacher and designer, wizard of food-forests and guilds design, founder of the Flowering Tree Permaculture Institute. Number of participants will be limited, in order to provide the students with opportunity for personal interaction with the teachers. Lodging: limited space in the community guesthouse, please register early, $130 for 13 nights in double occupancy rooms. Camping $30, please bring your own tent. Offsite accommodation within walking distance from the site can be arranged, call in advance. Tuition: $950 for two week course with one day off. 72 hours of formal instruction. Course outline, handouts, three organic meals a day are included. Additional free evening presentations on biodynamic, herbal medicine, plant identification and more. ******************************************************************************* Discount $50 if paid in full on or before 3/31 To hold your place a deposit of $250 is due 3/15 Make checks payable to the Permaculture Institute, PO Box 3702 Pojoaque NM 87501 ******************************************************************************* Other details call 505-455-0270, fax 505-455-0514 or email us pci@permaculture-inst.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 07:28:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA02088 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:28:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA28794; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:19:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28687 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:17:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from alphalink.com.au (ppp32-0-Rosebud.alphalink.com.au [203.62.183.32]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15234 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:18:44 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36C02855.5E7A7EE1@alphalink.com.au> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 23:21:41 +1100 From: SJ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: the error of their ways References: <36BFABCB.C2A1CECD@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 192 Dear Group, Many parables jump to mind after reading this series of emails. ---------------------------------------------- An old Jewish/German parable.... paraphrased. "One day they (Nazi's) came and took the man away from down the street, and I said nothing. The next day they came and took the man away from up the street, and I said nothing. The next day they came and took the man away from over the road, and I said nothing. The next day they came and took my neighbour away, and I said nothing. The next day they came and took me away, and their was no one left to say anything." ------------------------------------------------------------ An ederly women some years ago walked across the USA. When one of the journalists interviewed her about the epic walk...he asked .... "How did such an Old lady do such a trip" She smiled and simply replied.. "I just put one foot in front of the other" ---------------------------------------------------------- Chinese Proverb "Every great marche begins with one step" ---------------------------------------------------------- "If we all cleaned our own door step, what a great place the world would be" ----------------------------------------------------------- If we lead by example, are true to ourselves, support one another and do not fall into the trap of "playing victim" we will do all we set out to do and more!! Kind regards and blessings, Stephen from OZ !!!!!!!!! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 08:29:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA02930 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:29:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03288; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:21:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03183 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <32763-490>; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:21:49 -0400 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:21:49 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: Re: OFF Ottawa Reading List In-Reply-To: <002c01be537f$4338cae0$49d0ba89@computername> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 193 A while ago I mentioned the R. Steiner Lectures in July in Ottawa, Canada The reading list is out..also included are the O'Reilly/Decker edition of the 'Organon,' and 'Homeopathy Re-Examined' by Decker/Verspoor - will be available in CD-ROM & print in March. Available from Minimum books- Email: orders@minimum.com --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia PS: We are holding our second Homeopathy Class - Basic Principles/First Aid on Saturday, Feb. 13, in Halifax and there are about 8 people ready to move on to the Homeopathic Diploma course beginning in Sept., the tutors will come to Halifax once a month for 10 months... >From my Homeopathic list: > > Okay -- anyone interested in a reading list to prepare for Summer School > with Rudi Verspoor and Steven Decker, on Steiner's knowledge of the >higher worlds, and knowing (gnosis) -- all major parts of the dynamic >system and hugely relevant to heilkunst and Hahnemann's medical system -- this is from Steven: > Subject: Gnosis Reading List > > > Here are a few items for the Gnosis seminar. The following three books > are available at: > http://www.anthropress.org/press/TOC.html > > HOW TO KNOW HIGHER WORLDS > A Modern Path of Initiation > Written in 1904-1905 (GA 10); Translated by CHRISTOPHER BAMFORD; > formerly titled Knowledge of the Higher Worlds and Its Attainment > Rudolf Steiner 288 pp, ISBN 0-88010-372-8, paperback Book #1701, $9.95 > > The English Spirit > D.E. Faulkner Jones > ISBN 0-85440-389-2 > RSP, Book #643 > $11.95 > > AN OUTLINE OF ESOTERIC SCIENCE > Written in 1910 (GA 13); Translated By Catherine E. Creeger > Rudolf Steiner 388 pp, ISBN 0-880103-68-X, paperback > book #1898, $19.95 Chap.5 > > Rudolf Steiner's Medical Lectures > My scanned version is the only complete set I know of. Rudi has it > and I have it. > > The Quimby Manuscripts (out of print, but there are a good number of > used copies listed at > http://www.bookfinder.com/ > Especially the long Introduction by the editor. > > For an overview of the origins of Gnosticism see > http://www.gnosis.org/library.html > Especially http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlintro.html > and > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/pagels.html > > See also the Britannica article(s) on Gnosticism. > > For the Medieval period, the Britannica article on 'Mysticism' serves as > a good overview. > > For the Romantic period, Coleridge's Biographia Literaria and his Essays > on Method are core contributions. > This is hard going and quite optional. Ask me if anyone gets this far. > > That's all for right now, but if something else occurs to me I'll send > it along. > Steven Decker From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 10:35:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05406 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA20394; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20134 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:25:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0109.direct.ca ([204.244.83.9] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AF3V-0004Z4-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:26:29 -0800 Message-ID: <36C05358.21571082@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 07:25:12 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: STAGBLADDER AND HUNTING Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 194 Dear Ferdinand, Some people make this so called preparations, you said, where you use Stag Bladder. How do you get Stag Bladder. Does it come from Santa Claus. Ferdinand, tell me, is it true that the Yarrow Flower grows in the darkest time of the winter and in the snow? Tell me, is the stag something like a berry that you can pick in the forest? Tell me please! DEAR MELANIE, I WENT HUNTING FOR DEER. AND THE STAG IS A MALE DEER. SO, YES, I WENT HUNTING FOR DEER, FOR WHITE TAIL DEER BECAUSE THERE WERE NO OTHER RED DEER, AS I SHOULD HAVE BEEN HUNTING FOR. AND, IN SPRIN, DEAR MELANIE, IN SPRING I NEED A DEER BLADDER FOR MY BIO-DINAMIC YARROW PREPARATION OF WHICH I MAKE A SPECIAL PREPARATION WHICH IS ALSO CALLED PREPARATION 502. Do you have to kill the deer, Ferdinand? WELL, MELANIE, HOW SHALL I TELL YOU. YES! BEFORE I GO OUT IN THE FOREST, I CLEANSE MYSELF. I PRAY TO THE BEING OF THE DEER, WHICH IS A BIT LIKE A DEVA, AND THE DEVA DOES ASK ME MANY QUESTIONS. SHE WANT TO KNOW WHETHER I AM READY. SHE LOOKS INTO MY HEART. SHE LOOKS AT WHAT I HAVE DONE IN MYH LIFE AND SHE IS SITTING AMONG HER HERD OF DEER. SHE LOOKS AFTER THEM LIKE A FARMER IS LOOKING AFTER HIS COWS. SHE KNOWS THEM ALL, BY NAME, BY MOVEMENT, BY WHERE THEY LIVE. Ferdinand, what is her name? PERHAPS, I WOULD CALL HER DIANA, MY DEAR. SHE IS A WONDERFUL BEING AND SHE SAID SADLY, THAT VERY FEW HUNTERS COME AND VISIT HER LET ALONE ASK HER WHETHER THEY ARE PERMITTED TO SHOOT. AND SO, MANY AN ACCIDENT DOES HAPPEN AND HUNTER SHOOTS HUNTER. THIS IS SO PAINFUL FOR HER BECAUSE SHE WILL HAVE TO BE PRESENT DURING THE FUNERAL AND SHE WILL HAVE TO BE WITH THE DEAD HUNTER FOR YEARS WHEN HE IS IN HER KINGDOM AND DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM - WHEN HE IS IN THE KINGDOM OF THE DEAD. Can you tell me more of this, Ferdinand, please? MELANI, I WANTED TO TELL A STORY OF MY HUNTING TRIP. MAY I, PLEASE. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS, I WILL GLADLY DO SO. BUT, TOMORROW, WHEN YOU COME BACK FROM KINDERGARTEN, I WILL PREPARE MYSELF, SO THAT I CAN TELL YOU THE STORY ABOUT DIANA. THIS STORY HAS TO DO WITH MY HUNTING EXPEDITION. WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR IT? Yes! WHEN I WENT A HUNTING, IT WAS ONLY ABOUT 20 DEGREES BELOW BUT I FROZE TO THE FLOOR OF THE SMALL HUT I WAS SITTING IN DURING THE NIGHT, FOR SEVEN HOURS. MY SHOES FROZE TOO, THAT IS THE INSIDE, AND THERE WAS LOTS OF ICE INSIDE MY JACKET. MELANIE, I WAS SO COLD THAT I COULD HARDLY THINK ANYMORE. I KNOW NOW THAT WHEN IT IS TOO COLD ONE CANNOT THINK PROPERLY ANYMORE. IT IS THE SAME WHEN IT IS TOO HOT. AND SO, SLOWLY, I COULD NOT FEEL MY BODY ANY LONGER. I HAD TO LEAVE THE HUT BECAUSE I COULD NOT TAKE IT NO MORE. MY TWO HUNTING FRIENDS STAYED BEHIND IN THEIR WARM OUTFIT. MINE WAS NOT MADE FOR SUCH COLD TEMPERATURES AND ON TOP OF IT, I WAS SITTING CLOSE TO THE LOOKOUT GAP. THE ICY COLD AIR STREAMED INTO THE HUT WITH GREAT FORCE AND CRUELTY. WHEN I LEFT, IT WAS SNOWING EVER SO SLIGHTLY. SO, I THOUGHT THAT I SHOLD WALK BACK TO THE CAR. WE HAD ARRIVED IN A CAR. IT WAS PARKED ONLY A MILE AWAY. I WAS WALKING ON THE OLD TRACK - ON THE TRACK WE MADE WHEN WE CAME TO THE HUT. AND WHEN I CAME TO A BEND IN THE PATH, I LOST THE FOOTPRINTS. I COULD NOT SEE ANYTHING ANYMORE. IT WAS FOUR O CLOCK IN THE MORNING AND VERY DARK. I LOOKED AROUND, THERE WERE MILLIONS OF TREES, SNOW, CLOUDS AND SNOW FLAKES FALLING, DENSER AND DENSER. SO, I WALKED A BIT FURTHER AND THE CREAKING OF MY SHOES, THE FROZEN SHOES, MADE AN EERIE SOUND - AND THE SNOW KEPT FALLING. I CONTINUED TO WALK STRAIGHT AHEAD BUT…. WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A PATH ENDED. AND I HAD TO RETURN FOR A WHILE. BUT THEN, I THOUGHT, I WILL TRY IT AGAIN. AND I FOLLOWED SOME IMPRINTS IN THE SNOW AND WALKED, AND WALKED AND, THEY CAME TO AN END, TOO. SO, I RETURNED TO THE PLACE WHERE I THOUGHT I FELT SOME FAMILIARITY. BUT THEN, I THOUGHT, I SHOULD TRY IT AGAIN AND I FOLLOWED ALLLLLLL THESE FOOTSTEPS IN THE SNOW - AND I WAS SO HAPPY THAT THERE WERE SO MANY FOOTSTEPS CLEARLY VISIBLE, AND ALMOST FRESH. AND I WALKED AND, THEY ALL ENDED IN THE SAME PLACE YET AGAIN. SO, I TURNED BACK AND DID NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO. I STOOD IN THE SNOW, UNDER A DARK TREE. SNOW WAS FALLING MORE HEAVILY BY NOW. IT GREW EVEN DARKER AS THE MOON HAD DISAPPEARED BEHIND THE HEAVY CLOUDS. I COULD HARDLY SEE MY NOSE. SUDDENLY, I REMEMBERED THAT I WAS PULLING MY SLEEPING BAG BEHIND ME, IN THE SNOW, BECAUSE I HAD USED IT IN THE LITTLE HUT. I SAT DOWN AND WRAPPED MYSELF IN IT. BUT THAT DID NOT HELP AT ALL. MY SKIN STARTED TO BURN. I SWEATED LIKE MAD. I THINK IT WAS SWEAT OF ANXIETY OR SCARE. I THOUGHT, FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT I MAY HAVE TO DIE IN THE FOREST, RIGHT HERE, IN FINLAND. ALL BY MYSELF. GRAY PICTURES OF DREAMS AND A STIFFENING ANXIETY WENT THROUGH MY HEAD. GOD, I THOUGHT, FORESTS - FORESTS - CAN THEY REALLY LOOK SO MUCH THE SAME? EVERYWHERE IT LOOKS THE SAME…... I HAD NEVER EXPERIENCED A THING LIKE THIS. I KNOW FORESTS, I REALLY DO. FROM SWITZERLAND, WHERE I GREW UP AS A CHILD AND FROM CANADA, WHERE I WAS LIVING. HOW COULD IT HAPEN THAT I GOT CAUGHT IN SUCH A SITUATION. MY THINKING DID NOT HELP. AND I DECIDED, (NO, NEVER, IT CANNOT BE THE LAST TIME, I SAID TO MYSELF) THAT I MUST TRY IT ONCE MORE: TO FIND MY CAR. I SAID THIS VERY LOUD TO MYSELF. YOU MUST GO FORWARD, NOW. REALLY, DO IT. BUT I HAD NO ENERGY TO SHOUT. I THOUGHT THAT THE TONE WOULD FREEZE IN THE AIR. AND IT REALLY DID. THERE WAS NO ECHO, NO NOTHING. MY SHOUT WAS SWALLOWED LIKE A STONE THAT HAD FALLEN INTO A POND. WITHOUT A SOUND. SO, I TURNED AROUND AND WALKED AND I WAS SO HAPPY TO SEE ALL THESE MANY FOOTSTEPS IN THE SNOW. I COUNTED. EIGHT, TEN, TWELVE AND MORE AND I FOLLOWED THEM INTO THE FOREST AND I GOT MORE AND MORE EXCITED BECAUSE NOW, I KNEW, I WOULD FIND OUT OF THIS MAZE. I ALMOST STARTED TO SING. THE SNOW BEGAN TO GLITTER, I FELT WARM, FOR……. BUT, SUDDENLY, ALL OF THESE FOTSTEPS, THESE IMPRINTS, ALL OF THEM…….THEM CAME TO AN END. RIGHT IN THIS DENSE, THIS DENSEST PART OF THE FOREST. I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT. HOW COULD THAT MANY PEOPLE STOP HERE AND DISAPPEAR? NOW, NOW I WAS SCARED. THERE WAS NO MORE GLITTERING SNOW AND SINGING. MY MOUTH WAS AS COLD AS A BLOCK OF ICE. GOD, WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE. MY BRAIN WAS ALMOST UNABLE TO THINK. I TREMBLED. I FELL ON MY KNEES. I LOOKED AT THE IMPRINTS. I LOOKED AT THE SNOW. WHY WERE THERE SO MANY FOOTSTEPS, WHY WAS THERE A PATH AND WHY WOULD IT END SO SUDDENLY, IN THE FOREST, IN THE DARKEST PLACE? AND I STOOD THERE, MOTIONLESS, AND FELT HOW THE BITING COLD WAS ATTACKING MY FEET. BITING OFF LITTLE CHIPS - AND I FELT HOW MY BREATH FROZE TO THE WOOLEN CAP THAT I HAD PULLED OVER MY FACE. THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, I THOUGHT OF A STORY THAT I HAD READ TO MY CHILDREN. IT WAS THAT OF WINNY THE POO. DIDN’T HE FOLLOW HIS OWN FOOTSTEPS? DO YOU REMEMBER THAT STORY? I SAID TO MYSELF. AND IT DAWNED ON ME THAT I HAD FOLLOWED MY VERY OWN FOOTSTEPS FOR ALMOST HALF THE NIGHT. AND NOW, I WAS REALLY SCARED. BUT MY BODY DID NOT TREMBLE ANYMORE. I WAS STIFF. HOW WILL I FIND OUT OF THIS BLACK, LIFELESS, DEVOURING BEAST? WHO CAN OR WILL HELP ME. I TRIED TO SHOUT BUT…. JUST A WHIMPER CAME ACROSS MY LIPS WHO, BY NOW, HAD FULLY FROZEN TO THE WOOLEN CAP. THEN, I TURNED AROUND, - TO WHERE? THE FALLING SNOW HAD COVERED THE OLD PATH FROM THE HUT TO THE MANY FOOTSTEPS, TO THE SO CALLED SECURE PLACE AND NOW I KNEW I COULDN'T FIND BACK TO THE HUT ANY MORE EITHER. NO RETURN. I WAS THINKING OF MY FRIENDS SITTING IN THERE. MUCH WARMER THAN I AND NOT ALONE. AND WHILE I WAS STANDING FACING EXTINCTION, A TEAR WAS RUNNING DOWN MY NOSE, THEN FACE - WAS I TO DIE OUT HERE? WHY? MY TEAR FELL INTO THE SNOW - SOMEHOW AND WHERE IT HAD LEFT MY NOSE IT FELT NUMB, LIKE A HOLE. I WANTED TO RUB IT AND BENT DOWN A BIT. ALAS, THERE, IN THE GRAY SNOW OF THE NIGHT I SAW A SMALL TRACK, LIKE A SLEIGH PATH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT – AN EVER SO SOFT IMPRINT. AND I THOUGHT: IS THIS ANOTHER TRICK OF THE FOREST. FOLLOW IT - I SAID LOUDLY AND THE SLEEPINGBAG MADE A HISSING SOUND AS IT RUSHED GHOSTLIKE BEHIND ME...AND........................ IT SEEMED TO ME THAT HOURS HAD GONE BY AS I WALKED, AIMLESSLY THROUGH THE FOREST FOLLOWING A TRACK THAT MAY, AFTER ALL, NOT LEAD ANYWHERE. OH, HOW SURPRISED I WAS THAT LIFE SILL WANTED TO GO ON. SURPRISED THAT SOMETHING IN ME PUSHED FORWARD FOR I, I FERDINAND,HAD GIVEN UP…… MY FRIENDS, MY CHILDREN, MY WIFE , THE DEAREST PEOPLE AND ALL - EVEN I, MYSELF, YES, I MYSELF - WALKED BY ME. HOW STRANGE AND SILLY DID I LOOK I THOUGHT. AND ON THE PATH, IN FRONT OF ME, YES, GREW A WHITE, FRESH, FLOWERING YARROW PLANT. AND CLEARLY I CAN SEE IT, A FLOWERING YARROW PLANT. MELANIE, IT IS TRUE, I SAW THEM ALL. THEY LOOKED AT ME WITH LOVEFILLED EYES. THEY WOULD NOT LET ME GO NEITHER LEFT NOR RIGHT. THEY KEPT ME ON A MYSTERIOUS PATH. AND WHAT I SAW WOULD FILL A BOOK THAT MAKES BUT SENSE TO ME. SUDDENLY I HIT THE CAR. I WAS FROZEN, I THOUGHT. I COULD HARDLY BEND. IT TOOK ME HOURS TO GET WARM. AND STILL, WHEN I THINK OF THIS EPISODE, MY FACE, MY SHOULDER, MY FEET, MY WHOLE BODY IS STARTING TO ACHE. I HOPE YOU'LL NEVER RUN INTO A SITUATION LIKE THIS, DEAR MELANIE. IS THERE A STAGBLADDER SANTA CLAUS? WELL, I DON’T KNOW MY DEAR. TODAY, I KNOW DEAR MELANIE THAT IT TAKES A LOT OF WISDOM AND SACRIFICE TO FIND THE STAG AND THE YEARROW PLANT. TREAT THEM WITH GREAT CARE. DID YOU SHOOT A DEER, FERDINAND? ........NOT I, MY DEAR. I WATCHED THEM MOVING THROUGH THE FOREST AND DANCE THEIR MYSTERIOIUS WINTER DANCE. TELL ME MORE, FERDINAND - ABOUT THEIR WINTER DANCES. T'IS LATE, MY DEAR. GO TO SLEEP NOW. GOOD NIGHT. FROM FERDINAND From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 10:49:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05679 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:49:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA22723; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:42:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22129 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:39:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id KAA06181 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:40:54 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:38:47 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF65@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: the error of OUR ways Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:40:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 195 a liitle added food for thought, ferdy and others. what i eventually took from watching parts of the Nurnberg trials is this (and you find it applies to a million other situations): it WAS their fault. it was the fault of everyone who did not do everything in their power to stop it. i can't see another sane way to view the whole thing. the evil is our fault unless we are engaged in fighting it. we may be completely ignorant of it ,but that does not make it any less our fault that it continues. olivia > ---------- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Monday, February 8, 1999 10:30 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: the error of their ways > > Dear Margaret, > It is very unfortunate, but the Nurnberg trials revealed it 'clearly': The > Second World War i.e. Nazi Germany, was nobody's fault. Everybody did his > job > according to job description and what he/she was told. The machinery was > directed to accomplish a certain mission. The troups marched on and > (refering to > another post) there must have been millions and millions of 'good Germans' > 'nice > Germans' 'church going Germans' etc. etc. who were caught in the system, > too. > How many did prevent it from going berserk? > > I am afraid that our small circle with this handful of BDers (and the many > BDers > and other natural ERs) will - in due course, be treated in about the same > way as > those who tried to prevent Hitler from doing his job. This time, however, > mankaind (chemical corporations, business world and all of us who do not > want to > become conscious of what is going on) are not fighting another nation (or > nations). This time around, we are fighing nature (and the beings behind > it), > and with it the Christ forces. The outcome is clear. The problem, however, > is > the same as 60 years ago with Hitler: how to tell the Fuehrer? He is > blind, > Madam! And he took Germany all the way into the abyss. Have you ever > looked at > the aereal photographs of some Germany cities after WW2? Well, do you see > a > comparison with our destroyed forests, fertile land, parks etc. etc.? > > Yet, don't despair! There will be an end to this insanity (also in due > course). > Those of us who know that they are on the right track with BD, with > natural > farming, with the glorification of nature, keep on doing what you believe > is > right. The end is nigh, yet, a new beginning, too. Respectfully submitted: > Ferdinand Vondruska > > Margaret Kemp wrote: > > > To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, > > Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the > corporate > > giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end results > of > > those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically detailed. > And > > yet they do not 'see'. > > Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. They > have > > no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum dollars > > regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals seem > to > > become insatiable entities. > > I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of > greater > > creative enery flows? > > Margaret > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 12:59:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08522 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA17367; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:52:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09553 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:13:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AGkN-0005EE-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:14:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36C06CBE.680FC3EA@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 09:13:34 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: the error of OUR ways References: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF65@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 196 Dear Olivia, Perhaps I was misunderstood. Perhaps the word 'clearly' should have been replaced and I should have said something like this: Already in Nazi Germany (I am not German, but I grew up close to Germany) there was a trend and it started in the dirty thirties: Let's do the job, whatever it is. A job is a job and as long as we do not ask what for, what results it may cause etc. we do it. And everybody did his/her job diligently. Of course, I agree with you that it WAS (all of them) their fault. Absolutely. One mitigating factor (when looking at it from 1999) is the fact that Europe (and for that the entire world) had gone through an incredible period of unemployment and misery (such as some Asian countries are going through right now!). And Dr. Steiner made it very, very clear before his death in 1925 when said that IF education cannot instill some kind of spirituality into mankind, huge and collossal wars will ravage Europe and the world. If you study how children were educated in Germany at the turn of last Century, you may understand why the Europeans fell into such an abyss. But we are standing at the edge of a similar cathastrophe right now. Just study what kids have to learn in 1999. I am sorry if I have caused this misunderstanding. James.Olivia wrote: > a liitle added food for thought, ferdy and others. what i eventually took > from watching parts of the Nurnberg trials is this (and you find it applies > to a million other situations): it WAS their fault. it was the fault of > everyone who did not do everything in their power to stop it. i can't see > another sane way to view the whole thing. the evil is our fault unless we > are engaged in fighting it. we may be completely ignorant of it ,but that > does not make it any less our fault that it continues. > olivia > > > ---------- > > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Sent: Monday, February 8, 1999 10:30 PM > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Re: the error of their ways > > > > Dear Margaret, > > It is very unfortunate, but the Nurnberg trials revealed it 'clearly': The > > Second World War i.e. Nazi Germany, was nobody's fault. Everybody did his > > job > > according to job description and what he/she was told. The machinery was > > directed to accomplish a certain mission. The troups marched on and > > (refering to > > another post) there must have been millions and millions of 'good Germans' > > 'nice > > Germans' 'church going Germans' etc. etc. who were caught in the system, > > too. > > How many did prevent it from going berserk? > > > > I am afraid that our small circle with this handful of BDers (and the many > > BDers > > and other natural ERs) will - in due course, be treated in about the same > > way as > > those who tried to prevent Hitler from doing his job. This time, however, > > mankaind (chemical corporations, business world and all of us who do not > > want to > > become conscious of what is going on) are not fighting another nation (or > > nations). This time around, we are fighing nature (and the beings behind > > it), > > and with it the Christ forces. The outcome is clear. The problem, however, > > is > > the same as 60 years ago with Hitler: how to tell the Fuehrer? He is > > blind, > > Madam! And he took Germany all the way into the abyss. Have you ever > > looked at > > the aereal photographs of some Germany cities after WW2? Well, do you see > > a > > comparison with our destroyed forests, fertile land, parks etc. etc.? > > > > Yet, don't despair! There will be an end to this insanity (also in due > > course). > > Those of us who know that they are on the right track with BD, with > > natural > > farming, with the glorification of nature, keep on doing what you believe > > is > > right. The end is nigh, yet, a new beginning, too. Respectfully submitted: > > Ferdinand Vondruska > > > > Margaret Kemp wrote: > > > > > To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, > > > Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the > > corporate > > > giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end results > > of > > > those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically detailed. > > And > > > yet they do not 'see'. > > > Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. They > > have > > > no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum dollars > > > regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals seem > > to > > > become insatiable entities. > > > I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of > > greater > > > creative enery flows? > > > Margaret > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 13:00:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08538 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:00:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA17200; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:51:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26592 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:06:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp73.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.173]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA17663 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:06:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:05:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 197 Hi everyone... Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ Here's the seminar description: "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." Hope to see you there! Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 13:17:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08914 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA20273; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:09:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA19853 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:07:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id NAA16015 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:08:30 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:06:23 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF6B@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: the error of OUR ways Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:06:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 198 ferdy, you are very sensitive (not a bad thing). i did not interpret your words to say that you didn't believe everyone played a part, just that your focus was on the machinery and i felt it didn't acknowledge each individual's personal responsibility for the horror. i was only adding to the great brainstorm we continually engage in here on the list. of course rereading i realize that i was only saying hey every one played a part and you were *showing how * everyone played a part in that awful situation. thanks for your input. olivia > ---------- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 1999 12:13 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: the error of OUR ways > > Dear Olivia, > > Perhaps I was misunderstood. Perhaps the word 'clearly' should have been > replaced and I should have said something like this: Already in Nazi > Germany > (I am not German, but I grew up close to Germany) there was a trend and it > started in the dirty thirties: Let's do the job, whatever it is. A job is > a job > and as long as we do not ask what for, what results it may cause etc. we > do > it. And everybody did his/her job diligently. > > Of course, I agree with you that it WAS (all of them) their fault. > Absolutely. > One mitigating factor (when looking at it from 1999) is the fact that > Europe > (and for that the entire world) had gone through an incredible period of > unemployment and misery (such as some Asian countries are going through > right > now!). And Dr. Steiner made it very, very clear before his death in 1925 > when > said that IF education cannot instill some kind of spirituality into > mankind, > huge and collossal wars will ravage Europe and the world. If you study how > children were educated in Germany at the turn of last Century, you may > understand why the Europeans fell into such an abyss. But we are standing > at the > edge of a similar cathastrophe right now. Just study what kids have to > learn in > 1999. I am sorry if I have caused this misunderstanding. > > James.Olivia wrote: > > > a liitle added food for thought, ferdy and others. what i eventually > took > > from watching parts of the Nurnberg trials is this (and you find it > applies > > to a million other situations): it WAS their fault. it was the fault of > > everyone who did not do everything in their power to stop it. i can't > see > > another sane way to view the whole thing. the evil is our fault unless > we > > are engaged in fighting it. we may be completely ignorant of it ,but > that > > does not make it any less our fault that it continues. > > olivia > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > > > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Sent: Monday, February 8, 1999 10:30 PM > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Subject: Re: the error of their ways > > > > > > Dear Margaret, > > > It is very unfortunate, but the Nurnberg trials revealed it 'clearly': > The > > > Second World War i.e. Nazi Germany, was nobody's fault. Everybody did > his > > > job > > > according to job description and what he/she was told. The machinery > was > > > directed to accomplish a certain mission. The troups marched on and > > > (refering to > > > another post) there must have been millions and millions of 'good > Germans' > > > 'nice > > > Germans' 'church going Germans' etc. etc. who were caught in the > system, > > > too. > > > How many did prevent it from going berserk? > > > > > > I am afraid that our small circle with this handful of BDers (and the > many > > > BDers > > > and other natural ERs) will - in due course, be treated in about the > same > > > way as > > > those who tried to prevent Hitler from doing his job. This time, > however, > > > mankaind (chemical corporations, business world and all of us who do > not > > > want to > > > become conscious of what is going on) are not fighting another nation > (or > > > nations). This time around, we are fighing nature (and the beings > behind > > > it), > > > and with it the Christ forces. The outcome is clear. The problem, > however, > > > is > > > the same as 60 years ago with Hitler: how to tell the Fuehrer? He is > > > blind, > > > Madam! And he took Germany all the way into the abyss. Have you ever > > > looked at > > > the aereal photographs of some Germany cities after WW2? Well, do you > see > > > a > > > comparison with our destroyed forests, fertile land, parks etc. etc.? > > > > > > Yet, don't despair! There will be an end to this insanity (also in due > > > course). > > > Those of us who know that they are on the right track with BD, with > > > natural > > > farming, with the glorification of nature, keep on doing what you > believe > > > is > > > right. The end is nigh, yet, a new beginning, too. Respectfully > submitted: > > > Ferdinand Vondruska > > > > > > Margaret Kemp wrote: > > > > > > > To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, > > > > Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the > > > corporate > > > > giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end > results > > > of > > > > those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically > detailed. > > > And > > > > yet they do not 'see'. > > > > Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. > They > > > have > > > > no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum > dollars > > > > regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals > seem > > > to > > > > become insatiable entities. > > > > I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of > > > greater > > > > creative enery flows? > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 14:08:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA10233 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:08:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA29516; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29027 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:56:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-5-p145.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.145]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24053 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:57:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:45:30 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99 References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 199 Great! But Sure Would be Nice to have such a conference in the Northwestern US... What would it cost to get some instructors out here? Anyone want to volunteer to help me organize it? Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm CSA Vashon WA, USA "Julie M." wrote: > Hi everyone... > > Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving > a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic > Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the > Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have > extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place > at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) > > Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing > biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens > are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an > outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) > > I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, > it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the > March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the > UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ > > Here's the seminar description: > > "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, > and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a > critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh > Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, > founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of > biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free > ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work > with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." > > Hope to see you there! > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 15:39:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12231 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:39:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA15752; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:29:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14705 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:22:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from khansen (awi0113.animalwelfare.com [207.96.27.29]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id PAA01678 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:24:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <011501be546a$a0344800$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> From: "Kelly Hansen" To: Subject: newbie organic gardener, help with soil amendment location Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:27:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 200 I've really enjoyed reading all of your posts, I am learning a lot, but don't have much to contriubte at this point. I am looking for a supplier of colloidal phosphate, greensand and limestone. Anyone know where to procure a few tons of each around the DC area? TIA, Kelly Hansen, Wash, DC -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds >My friends, >Let me add a story here which my father and I witnessed in the Kanton of Valais, in >Switzerland (around 1964). We visited a cauliflower farm where thousands and >thousands of cauliflowers were 'manufactured. The had the size of a computer Monitor >(not the flat ones!). While, in a corner, there was a concrete box of about 50' x >30' in which grew a lot of other plants plus some 100 small, relatively tiny >cauliflower plants. Asked by my father whether this is a test site, the owner and >producer replied laughingly: Do you really and honestly believe that I am eating the >crap out there? It stinks when you cook it and think of all the stuff we put into >it. No, my family and I we are eating the small stuff here. And he pointed at the >'text box'. He continued: I am getting paid for quantity and that's what the >consumer wants. I couldn't make a living on those small heads. > >Suffice it to say that my father started to shout and our visit ended within >seconds. > >So much for the fellow who has a family and works for a GE-company. One really must >be totally naive to believe that guys who have a family and work for the chemical >industry believe in the chemical industry. We are living in a truly schizophrenic >society. > >If I would put a million dollars on the table, I bet that million, that many a green >would get corrupted, too. I do not want to tell that story (it happened in the >neighbourhood) where a staunch green clearcut his entire forest for a lousy >$10,000.--. Money does a lot, indeed. Regards Ferdinand > >Rex Harrill wrote: > >> Steven McFadden wrote: >> >> > Both in corporate board rooms and socially I have spoken with people >> > involved with bringing genetically engineered food and other products to the >> > market. They turned out to be human beings with families and all the usual >> > concerns. I found them to be sincere and enthusiastic about what they are >> > doing. >> > >> >> Maybe so, maybe so...but: I actually interacted with a man who Novartis hired >> away from the university system and then turned loose to stalk the Internet on >> their behalf. >> >> I'm making that up? Not hardly: once upon a time, while monitoring a supposed >> alternative ag group, I kept noticing that every time I put in a plug for >> earth-friendly farming he would immediately jump in to "explain" that toxic >> chemicals aren't so bad after all. >> >> One day I asked what his purpose was. He responded with two points: 1) he liked >> to piss me off (his words) and, 2) he intended to see that chemicals got a >> "fair" shake. He was quite candid that doing the later was his job, while doing >> the former was his recreation. >> >> Since then I have noticed other spokesmen for the drug and chemical industry >> (based on their tireless championing of toxic technology), but I can't get them >> to fess up that they're paid for it. The best I can do is observe the time >> stamps on their messages. It quickly becomes apparent they're writing those >> "hey guys, a little poison never hurt anybody" messages on company time. >> >> Steve, I highly respect you and your work. However, I would urge you to mount a >> serious study into the agents of disinfomation working the Internet. There are >> billions and billions of dollars at stake here and the big toxic sellers are not >> going down without a fight. A conspiracy can be more than two guys getting >> together to plot how to do you wrong. For instance, when giant companies A, B, >> & C, all members of the Association of Chemical Manufacturers (or whatever), >> independently send their detail men out to spread disinformation, I call that, >> too, conspiracy. >> >> These people do not have our best interests at heart. They are there to make a >> profit and only become interested in the enviornment when the toxic crap starts >> seeping out of the ground neath *their* barbecue grill. >> >> And, to go back on topic, please discount a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g said by a GE seed >> seller. I repeat: they *ain't* doing it for your health. >> >> Regards, >> Rex Harrill > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 15:57:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12536 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:57:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA19940; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19550 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:47:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.59] (pm3shep1-163-51.intrepid.net [209.190.163.51]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21954; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:16 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <011501be546a$a0344800$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: AG-LIFE was Re: newbie organic gardener Cc: mcdougo@aol.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 201 >I've really enjoyed reading all of your posts, I am learning a lot, but >don't have much to contriubte at this point. I am looking for a supplier of >colloidal phosphate, greensand and limestone. Anyone know where to procure >a few tons of each around the DC area? TIA, Kelly Hansen, Wash, DC khansen@animalwelfare.com That w.b. DOUG BRITT, of AG-Life (301) 432-4624 (there's a 800 number also, maybe REX can post it... wait a minute, DOUG is a subscriber to BDNOW! Maybe he will pipe up, but I don't think he's as computer-hatibutated as many of us, so it might take a while. YOu can also email him at MCDOUGO@aol.com, if you're not embarassed to type that in.) Doug is honest, knowledgeable, and cheap PLUS if you buy a ton of GRANITE DUST from him, I'll be he'll sell me 2 or 3 also!! :-) -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 15:57:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12547 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:57:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA19849; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19538 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:47:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.59] (pm3shep1-163-51.intrepid.net [209.190.163.51]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21857 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:13 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:43:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 202 Anyone headed out to this conference (UMOFC) from the east coast? I sure could use a ride! Let me know what your plans are. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 16:00:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12592 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20366; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20028 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:50:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AK86-0002SZ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:51:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36C09F88.3258FEF7@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 12:50:16 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99 References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 203 Martin, I'll be glad to be part of it. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Great! But Sure Would be Nice to have such a conference in the Northwestern > US... What would it cost to get some instructors out here? Anyone want to > volunteer to help me organize it? > > Martin Nyberg > GreenMan Farm CSA > Vashon WA, USA > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > Hi everyone... > > > > Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving > > a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic > > Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the > > Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have > > extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place > > at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) > > > > Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing > > biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens > > are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an > > outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) > > > > I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, > > it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the > > March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the > > UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ > > > > Here's the seminar description: > > > > "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, > > and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a > > critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh > > Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, > > founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of > > biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free > > ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work > > with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." > > > > Hope to see you there! > > > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 16:44:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13586 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:44:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA28688; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:36:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27620 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:28:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from khansen (awi0113.animalwelfare.com [207.96.27.29]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id QAA00299 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:30:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <012b01be5473$d4896960$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> From: "Kelly Hansen" To: Subject: Re: AG-LIFE was Re: newbie organic gardener Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:33:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 204 Dear Allen, Thanks for the lead. I called Doug and he was quite helpful. Are you in the DC area? Maybe we could share delivery charges? That is, if my "land deal" comes through. I am trying to negotiate a land-for-vegetables-and-flowers agreement with a local convent. If this is not successful, I guess it is back to gardening on the roof! Thanks again, love the list, Kelly -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: mcdougo@aol.com Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 3:51 PM Subject: AG-LIFE was Re: newbie organic gardener >>I've really enjoyed reading all of your posts, I am learning a lot, but >>don't have much to contriubte at this point. I am looking for a supplier of >>colloidal phosphate, greensand and limestone. Anyone know where to procure >>a few tons of each around the DC area? TIA, Kelly Hansen, Wash, DC >khansen@animalwelfare.com > > >That w.b. DOUG BRITT, of AG-Life (301) 432-4624 (there's a 800 number also, >maybe REX can post it... wait a minute, DOUG is a subscriber to BDNOW! >Maybe he will pipe up, but I don't think he's as computer-hatibutated as >many of us, so it might take a while. YOu can also email him at >MCDOUGO@aol.com, if you're not embarassed to type that in.) > >Doug is honest, knowledgeable, and cheap PLUS if you buy a ton of GRANITE >DUST from him, I'll be he'll sell me 2 or 3 also!! :-) > >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 17:02:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13944 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA02185; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:52:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01693 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:50:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-003.midcoast.com [208.153.20.103]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23994 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:52:20 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990209163839.007e9ec0@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 16:38:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: RE: the error of OUR ways In-Reply-To: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF6B@drucker.niehs.nih .gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 205 Dear Friends, When it comes to resisting unhealthy economic and social activity, of course, we all have a part to play. For some the part is one of bluntly telling the world of the crimes of genetic manipulation. For others the part is one of building healthy alternatives such as biodynamic farms founded in associative economic principles. A third part, just as important as the previous two, is that of conscious observer. People who seek to penetrate the working of evil and to comprehend its many faces do much to bring light into the world. Evil wishes to not be seen. Evil wishes to be portrayed as good. Evil wishes to call truth by the name of falsehood, and wishes to label its lies as matters of moral relativism. A person who ponders the actions of corporate GE activity and lets these images rest deeply in his or her heart can use the power of love to break through the darkness which threatens to destroy humanity. Letter writing and public speaking against GE is important. Building new social and agricultural forms is necessary. Love, above all else, is an absolute requirement for changing the course of contemporary events. As I recall, from the book by Sergei Prokofieff, "The spiritual Origins of Eastern Europe and the Future Mysteries of the Holy Grail", he reports that Steiner stated that it would have only taken twelve individuals who were capable of Michaelic thinking to prevent the Russian revolution from going the way of bolshevism. May we find the courage to see into the darkness and to let the light of truth dazzle the opposing forces with its brightness. John Thomas At 01:06 PM 2/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >ferdy, >you are very sensitive (not a bad thing). i did not interpret your words to >say that you didn't believe everyone played a part, just that your focus was >on the machinery and i felt it didn't acknowledge each individual's personal >responsibility for the horror. i was only adding to the great brainstorm we >continually engage in here on the list. snip >Olivia From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 17:24:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14617 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05623; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04813 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:06:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp345.cy-net.net [208.21.195.154]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20648 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:22:21 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5444.523A14C0@FLYLO>; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:53:22 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5444.523A14C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: goat poop Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:53:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id RAA04816 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 206 I just spent the better part of the afternoon scraping out a spare goat pen. It hasn't seen much use this season, but I wanted to get down to the wet packed mucky stuff to let it air dry. The top layer(s) were hauled off to the compost area, but the heavy packed, nitrogen-rich sub layers are now leering at my garden. I'm not sure if I should compost this out further (it's WELL broken down), or can I use it as mulch straight on. I usually just mulch the walkways then move on over and plant over them. But this is really too good to waste in a pathway if I can use it anywhere in the beds themselves. I'm pretty lucky, we've been here since 1864 and no one has used poisons at all. Besides, I have all the topsoil from my neighboring hillsides as well. I don't NEED goat poop on my garden, but I like for the animals to contribute their fair share, and the garden looks nicer under a deep layer of bedding. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:09:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15741 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:09:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14232; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:57:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13198 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AM2i-0007FF-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:54:08 -0800 Message-ID: <36C0BC25.D6823D44@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 14:52:21 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: the error of OUR ways References: <3.0.5.32.19990209163839.007e9ec0@midcoast.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 207 Dear John, This is a jewel of a contribution. Many thanks Ferdinand John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett wrote: > Dear Friends, > > When it comes to resisting unhealthy economic and social activity, of > course, we all have a part to play. For some the part is one of bluntly > telling the world of the crimes of genetic manipulation. For others the > part is one of building healthy alternatives such as biodynamic farms > founded in associative economic principles. A third part, just as > important as the previous two, is that of conscious observer. People who > seek to penetrate the working of evil and to comprehend its many faces do > much to bring light into the world. Evil wishes to not be seen. Evil > wishes to be portrayed as good. Evil wishes to call truth by the name of > falsehood, and wishes to label its lies as matters of moral relativism. A > person who ponders the actions of corporate GE activity and lets these > images rest deeply in his or her heart can use the power of love to break > through the darkness which threatens to destroy humanity. Letter writing > and public speaking against GE is important. Building new social and > agricultural forms is necessary. Love, above all else, is an absolute > requirement for changing the course of contemporary events. > > As I recall, from the book by Sergei Prokofieff, "The spiritual Origins of > Eastern Europe and the Future Mysteries of the Holy Grail", he reports that > Steiner stated that it would have only taken twelve individuals who were > capable of Michaelic thinking to prevent the Russian revolution from going > the way of bolshevism. May we find the courage to see into the darkness > and to let the light of truth dazzle the opposing forces with its brightness. > > John Thomas > > At 01:06 PM 2/9/99 -0500, you wrote: > >ferdy, > >you are very sensitive (not a bad thing). i did not interpret your words to > >say that you didn't believe everyone played a part, just that your focus was > >on the machinery and i felt it didn't acknowledge each individual's personal > >responsibility for the horror. i was only adding to the great brainstorm we > >continually engage in here on the list. > > snip > > >Olivia From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:09:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15765 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14058; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:57:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12944 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:51:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp79.blueriver.mwt.net [156.46.253.206]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA00913 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:51:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000b01be547e$a6e9b860$cefd2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: goat poop Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:50:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 208 Hey Martha! How old are you anyway? :-) Julie >I'm pretty lucky, we've been here since 1864 and no one has used poisons at all. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:13:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15840 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:13:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14381; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:58:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14276 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:58:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AM80-0000Ta-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:59:37 -0800 Message-ID: <36C0BD6E.37E171EB@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 14:57:50 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: goat poop References: <01BE5444.523A14C0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 209 Dear Martha, God, you are the oldes farmer I know of - 1864, and assuming that you were 30 when you got there, that makes you,let me see, 165 years or thereabouts. Congratulations. That's what I call longlevity. Now, goat manure is a hot manure. I would not use it in the garden directly. Compost it first. You would addtract too many 'helpful weeds' going the direct way. So, via compost. Say, a 2 - 3 month compost. and then give it to the high feeders. I recommend that you, in the future, spray Barrell Compost in the Goat Shed. Barrell Compost will help the breakingdown process while the animals are IN the stabel AND may, to a large extent, prevent hoof rot. If you have sheep that can really suffer of this illness, then, you know what i mean. So, Barrell Compost into the stable every 1 - 2 weeks, depending how many goats you have. Hope this helps. Regards, Ferdinand PS If you really have a lot of goats and your loafing barn is big, you may apply the Preparations directly. Martha Wells wrote: > I just spent the better part of the afternoon scraping out a spare goat pen. It hasn't seen much use this season, but I wanted to get down to the wet packed mucky stuff to let it air dry. The top layer(s) were hauled off to the compost area, but the heavy packed, nitrogen-rich sub layers are now leering at my garden. I'm not sure if I should compost this out further (it's WELL broken down), or can I use it as mulch straight on. > I usually just mulch the walkways then move on over and plant over them. But this is really too good to waste in a pathway if I can use it anywhere in the beds themselves. > I'm pretty lucky, we've been here since 1864 and no one has used poisons at all. Besides, I have all the topsoil from my neighboring hillsides as well. I don't NEED goat poop on my garden, but I like for the animals to contribute their fair share, and the garden looks nicer under a deep layer of bedding. > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:19:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15941 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:19:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16372; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:10:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16086 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:09:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AMIj-0002LM-00; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:10:41 -0800 Message-ID: <36C0C004.DACC8E20@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:08:53 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LUCIA SARADOFF CC: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Re: Internet Message References: <199902091502.KAA15274@mime3.prodigy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 210 Dear Lucia, Permit me to reply via the BDNOW and to you personally as well. The salmon business, here in the West of Canada or Northwest of US is in a mess. I remember how my mother told me (I was a young boy, perhaps 13 or so) when the AI (Artificial Insemination truck arrived at the neighbours farm) she said: And now, they have taken that away from the cows too. She meant the bull and love. And she continued, that cannot end well. And so it is. We have real problem with the cows. Well, with the Salmon it is even (much) worse. We have a salmon hatchery 2 miles down the river. Now, imagine, they catch the female, cut it open and extract the eggs. Then, they take the male, cut it to pieces and prinkle the semen over it. Well, that's making love, isn't it. I shudder and I am in agony. They call it wild Salmon. At least the offsprings are released and float back into the sea. The wonderful thing, here, are the eagles. Presently, about threethousandfivehundred, yes, eagles are sitting in the trees around our house and downstreams eating the dying salmon. It is a sight to behold. Many, many tourists are coming to see this event. It is a place of initiation, my friend. Where the high flying eagle meets the fish. Where the transformation from water to air takes place. At the same time we are fighting BCRail as they want to spray the tracks with Roundup, imagine, a few hundred feet besides the river. That's insanity. But other chemicals are being usesd, too. On an even sader note. There are commercial salmon fisheries downstreams i.e. in the sea. They rear millions of salmon. They are being kept so close together that they have to feed them antibiotics with their daily feed ration. Commercially kept salmon, i.e. the meat of salmon from so called salmon farms, is more yellowish and full of fat. Restaurants love it since it fryes more tenderly. Yet, it ain't healthy. And all the salmons get an injection; growth hormons so that they get about three times the size. What a feeling that must be. Yes, Lucia, that's the state we are in. Our daily meditations are of great value keeping these animals and the animal world at large deep in our hearts and thanking them for being with us and coming back and back again and again. Love Ferdinand LUCIA SARADOFF wrote: > Hi Ferdinand: was thinking of the state of salmon in States, which > they say are dying, not breeding as they once did. how to reverse > these things, so so sad, wasteful, an insult to the wisdom and power > that created all of it, us, including those wonderful creatures you > have seen feeding on them as they were supposed to. Have you > actually witnessed bears > salmon fishing? L From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:19:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15957 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:19:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16436; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:10:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16280 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp345.cy-net.net [208.21.195.154]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA30365 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:25:41 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE544D.117BE5E0@FLYLO>; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:55:59 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE544D.117BE5E0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: 1864 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:55:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE544D.11838700" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 211 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE544D.11838700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wasn't a typo, 'collectively' I've been here since 1864! some days I = feel about that old. Was told I was the last of the Renaissance women, = and I'm beginning to think maybe it has some bearing on my tie to this = farm for so long.=20 I have jonquils my great (great?) grandmother planted in 1877. I know = most of the stories behind the huge oaks and pecans. I just don't know = what to do about all this goat poop! martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Julie M. [SMTP:marq@mwt.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 4:51 PM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: goat poop Hey Martha! How old are you anyway? :-) Julie >I'm pretty lucky, we've been here since 1864 and no one has used = poisons at all. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE544D.11838700 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjsWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEABQAAADE4NjQA0wABBYADAA4AAADPBwIACQAQADcAOgACAGQBASCAAwAO 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=_NextPart_000_01BE544D.11838700-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 22:06:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA18570 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:06:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA10285; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:56:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09908 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:53:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp345.cy-net.net [208.21.195.154]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA03054 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:05:05 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO>; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:34:45 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:34:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE5452.7BB714C0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 212 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5452.7BB714C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, Ferdinand, bridling here a bit about AI. I can see that it has value = in a small farm operation, only it's the mega concerns that usually = benefit by the use of it. I have my bucks drawn and occasionally use AI = when I have daughters too close to their parents to go natural. (I'm an = AI technician both bovine and caprine.)=20 The ranchers around us wanted to get into the heavy beef industry = quickly by breeding their very small Hereford cows to huge bulls. It = took AI to turn the tide of cows dying in the attempts to birth = overlarge calves. (I also midwife most of this area hard deliveries = too.) By having a back log of bulls KNOWN to produce small birth weights, I = was able to produce the outcome the ranchers are looking for, yet save = the ma cows as well.=20 MANY ranchers are elderly and can't handle rough stock any more. AI is a = good tool for those gents who still need to farm and ranch for their = income. Oh, and that 'love' aspect.. that male goat would breed the cat if he = had the chance, so don't pity him that one or two breeding = opportunities. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5452.7BB714C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii0XAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu 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sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AQGV-00000h-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:24:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:22:41 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 213 Dear Martha, Well, well, well. Must it all go to pot? I understand your anger. It ain't easy. I know. We are were we are. AI is in, the bull is out. So, let us look at the situation. Steiner (approx 1924): within 50 years you'll have such problems due to AI, and it started in his time, that you may have to ask yourself: what can be done with our cows. Illnesses, deformations, infertility and so forth. Martha, there is a lot more happening when a bull breeds a cow that semen being unloaded into a vagina (with a siringe.....) I am sure you have watched the mating dance of a bull and a cow. Something very spiritual and etheric is, indeed, happening. Or, have you ever seen how cows fight for their first place in the herd? It is not a bull that is leading a herd, as you know, it is the strongest cow. In Switzerland, in the Kanton of Appenzell, there are cow fights and it is moving to see how they push and press each other out of the ring until the strongest Mama has been found. We have to find new ways, Martha. We really have to. I am sure you are doing a fine job. I am not attacking you. But we have to ask ourselves what the future will bring (if we continue via AI only) and what we are doing (if we disallow the mating process). We cannot remain stagnant. I had a horny billygoat, too. Don't think that I am of yesteryear. He was dangerous, aggressive and wouldn't take a no for an answer. He almost killed my daughter. Well, so much for the aggressive billy goat. I hope we got that one out of the discussion. Let's return to the cows and what is happening there. As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you do not have the time. When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. I can only add the above to describe the situation. And when the AI-Van arrives and squirts the semen into the cow, well, let it be a 'clean' inseminator, a clean engineer. If he or she is not, beware of what is happening because the aura, the colorfield of the cow attaches itself to the inseminator. And so, it will travel with the person, the engineer throughout his/her life.... and onwards. That's my story, Martha. have a good evening. Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > Ok, Ferdinand, bridling here a bit about AI. I can see that it has value in a small farm operation, only it's the mega concerns that usually benefit by the use of it. I have my bucks drawn and occasionally use AI when I have daughters too close to their parents to go natural. (I'm an AI technician both bovine and caprine.) > The ranchers around us wanted to get into the heavy beef industry quickly by breeding their very small Hereford cows to huge bulls. It took AI to turn the tide of cows dying in the attempts to birth overlarge calves. (I also midwife most of this area hard deliveries too.) > By having a back log of bulls KNOWN to produce small birth weights, I was able to produce the outcome the ranchers are looking for, yet save the ma cows as well. > MANY ranchers are elderly and can't handle rough stock any more. AI is a good tool for those gents who still need to farm and ranch for their income. > Oh, and that 'love' aspect.. that male goat would breed the cat if he had the chance, so don't pity him that one or two breeding opportunities. > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 22:52:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19487 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:52:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA16010; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:43:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15898 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:43:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-83.s20.as1.hgt.erols.com [207.172.143.83]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19374 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:45:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C0FFDB.D9A36EC3@erols.com> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:41:15 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 214 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you do > not have the time. > > When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors > is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. This is one of the most powerful documents I have seen in years. Ferdinand, shivers went through me. You captured it *exactly*! And, dare I hope, many others will get those shivers, too. Perhaps they will look around and realize that it is not just the newly arrived hard-to-breed animals that are in trouble---we are too. Thanks, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 22:55:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19568 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA16304; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:46:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16246 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:46:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay01912478.acay.com.au [203.19.124.78]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA29029 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:04:41 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:47:57 +1100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990209163839.007e9ec0@midcoast.com> X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: Re: the error of OUR ways MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 215 On 10-Feb-99, you wrote: John, Thank you for the wonderful answer to my awkwardly phrased question. How do we make the 'blind' see? And as so many have pointed out we all have 'sight' problems. Thank you for this deeply considered response. As a beginner on this path your guidance is much appreciated. Margaret. > Dear Friends, > > When it comes to resisting unhealthy economic and social activity, of > course, we all have a part to play. For some the part is one of bluntly > telling the world of the crimes of genetic manipulation. For others the > part is one of building healthy alternatives such as biodynamic farms > founded in associative economic principles. A third part, just as > important as the previous two, is that of conscious observer. People who > seek to penetrate the working of evil and to comprehend its many faces do > much to bring light into the world. Evil wishes to not be seen. Evil > wishes to be portrayed as good. Evil wishes to call truth by the name of > falsehood, and wishes to label its lies as matters of moral relativism. A > person who ponders the actions of corporate GE activity and lets these > images rest deeply in his or her heart can use the power of love to break > through the darkness which threatens to destroy humanity. Letter writing > and public speaking against GE is important. Building new social and > agricultural forms is necessary. Love, above all else, is an absolute > requirement for changing the course of contemporary events. > > As I recall, from the book by Sergei Prokofieff, "The spiritual Origins of > Eastern Europe and the Future Mysteries of the Holy Grail", he reports that > Steiner stated that it would have only taken twelve individuals who were > capable of Michaelic thinking to prevent the Russian revolution from going > the way of bolshevism. May we find the courage to see into the darkness and > to let the light of truth dazzle the opposing forces with its brightness. > > > John Thomas > > At 01:06 PM 2/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >> ferdy, >> you are very sensitive (not a bad thing). i did not interpret your words >> to say that you didn't believe everyone played a part, just that your >> focus was on the machinery and i felt it didn't acknowledge each >> individual's personal responsibility for the horror. i was only adding to >> the great brainstorm we continually engage in here on the list. > > snip > >> Olivia > Regards From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 23:09:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA19771 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17545; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17130 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:55:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AQla-0005sF-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:56:47 -0800 Message-ID: <36C10308.D2D9185A@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:54:48 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> <36C0FFDB.D9A36EC3@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 216 Dear Rex, Since I had to write this 'report' in my coputer (and not in front of the mating cows) I was not as exact as I should have been - or perhaps not as explicit. I did not mention the mixing of the auras, the coming together, the firework of enmeshing, it is an act to behold - and it takes nanoseconds. It is not like a long outdrawn thing. It really is a short 'spectacle' IF one is permitted to say so. The mating act, as most farmers know, may take 15 seconds, no more. And I am sure there is NO LUST involved. Really not. The 'lust' if we want to fall as low as that in our description, is the firework of colors - the unbelievable beauty of Mantras and interweaving meandering pictures that arise. and this can take hours. the final peak comes with the mating act and is eye-blinding. I may 'warn' those who want to observe this activity for curiousity's sake that it may burn their spiritual eye. You have to move yourself into a 'neutral', love imbued position, cleaning the arena where the mating act shall take place and be steadfast and strong. Blessed are the blind, one may want to say from time to time, as they will not lose their eyes. Yet, they will not see anything either. Rex, I am sorry if I have not been as clean and clear as I should have. Regards Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you do > > not have the time. > > > > When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors > > is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. > > This is one of the most powerful documents I have seen in years. Ferdinand, shivers went through me. You captured it *exactly*! And, dare I hope, many others will get those shivers, too. Perhaps they will look around and realize that it is not just the newly arrived hard-to-breed animals that are in trouble---we are too. > > Thanks, > Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 23:25:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20088 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19583; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:16:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19227 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:12:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.79] (pm3shep2-163-79.intrepid.net [209.190.163.79]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15031 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:14:28 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:12:36 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Honeybee Quote Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 217 Not much luck with the honeybee quote so far! Here's the favorite one of BD Honeybee Symposium Founder, Jim Jensen: > "That the life of the hive is extraordinarily wisely organized no one who >has ever observed it can deny. Naturally, no one can say that the bees >have the same kind of intelligence that men have, for we certainly have >the instrument of the brain, whereas the bees have nothing of the kind; >thus the universal world wisdom cannot be drawn into their bodies in the >same way. But influences coming from the whole surrounding universe do, >none the less, work with immense power in the bee-hive. Indeed, one can >only arrive at a right understanding of what the life of the bees truly >is, when one takes into account that the whole environment of the earth >has a very great influence upon the life of the colony." Rudolf Steiner >1923 9 Lectures on Bees I'm looking for something a little more succinct, the quote above requires a fair amount of knowledge of RS to really appreciate. I'm looking for something that may illuminate the reader to how much the honeybee contributes to the food we eat and to Nature around us. Your favorite quote, or any suggestions, would be greatly appreciated. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 23:37:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20222 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:37:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA20900; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:28:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20389 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:24:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p91.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.91]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02432 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:26:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C1077D.7B407EAF@seattle2000.com> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:14:01 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 218 Hi Ferdy and all, I have a problem. Reading email from you, or Martha and a few others is very difficult because I have to scroll horizontally. Your messages are not coming with defined margins. Can I ask what email software you use? I want to figure this out so I know the answer to the problem. Anyone else have this problem? Martin Nyberg Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Dear Martha, > Well, well, well. Must it all go to pot? I understand your anger. It ain't easy. I know. We are were we are. AI is in, the bull is out. So, let us look at the situation. > > Steiner (approx 1924): within 50 years you'll have such problems due to AI, and it started in his time, that you may have to ask yourself: what can be done with our cows. Illnesses, deformations, infertility and so forth. > > Martha, there is a lot more happening when a bull breeds a cow that semen being unloaded into a vagina (with a siringe.....) > > I am sure you have watched the mating dance of a bull and a cow. Something very spiritual and etheric is, indeed, happening. Or, have you ever seen how cows fight for their first place in the herd? It is not a bull that is leading a herd, as you know, it is the strongest cow. In Switzerland, in the Kanton of Appenzell, there > are cow fights and it is moving to see how they push and press each other out of the ring until the strongest Mama has been found. > > We have to find new ways, Martha. We really have to. I am sure you are doing a fine job. I am not attacking you. But we have to ask ourselves what the future will bring (if we continue via AI only) and what we are doing (if we disallow the mating process). We cannot remain stagnant. > > I had a horny billygoat, too. Don't think that I am of yesteryear. He was dangerous, aggressive and wouldn't take a no for an answer. He almost killed my daughter. Well, so much for the aggressive billy goat. I hope we got that one out of the discussion. > > Let's return to the cows and what is happening there. > > As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you > do not have the time. > > When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors > is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. > > I can only add the above to describe the situation. And when the AI-Van arrives and squirts the semen into the cow, well, let it be a 'clean' inseminator, a clean engineer. If he or she is not, beware of what is happening because the aura, the colorfield of the cow attaches itself to the inseminator. And so, it will travel > with the person, the engineer throughout his/her life.... and onwards. > > That's my story, Martha. > > have a good evening. Ferdinand > > Martha Wells wrote: > > > Ok, Ferdinand, bridling here a bit about AI. I can see that it has value in a small farm operation, only it's the mega concerns that usually benefit by the use of it. I have my bucks drawn and occasionally use AI when I have daughters too close to their parents to go natural. (I'm an AI technician both bovine and caprine.) > > The ranchers around us wanted to get into the heavy beef industry quickly by breeding their very small Hereford cows to huge bulls. It took AI to turn the tide of cows dying in the attempts to birth overlarge calves. (I also midwife most of this area hard deliveries too.) > > By having a back log of bulls KNOWN to produce small birth weights, I was able to produce the outcome the ranchers are looking for, yet save the ma cows as well. > > MANY ranchers are elderly and can't handle rough stock any more. AI is a good tool for those gents who still need to farm and ranch for their income. > > Oh, and that 'love' aspect.. that male goat would breed the cat if he had the chance, so don't pity him that one or two breeding opportunities. > > > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 23:58:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20874 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA22905; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22809 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:47:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.79] (pm3shep2-163-79.intrepid.net [209.190.163.79]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20713 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:49:14 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36C1077D.7B407EAF@seattle2000.com> References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:41:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: MARTIN's MAILER was Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 219 Martin, my friend, nothing jolts a guy more than opening a post about artificial insemination to find a rant about text formatting!! Please create an appropriate new 'subject' when you're changing an existing one. The problem is on your end. Messages can be mailed with 'flowing text' or with 'line returns.' On your end, you need to turn on 'text wrap' or some such thing, this should format EVERYONE's text to the size of your reader window. Ferdy's body text is as it should be: free flowing!!! Let me know off-line if you need more help. -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! igg@igg.com >Hi Ferdy and all, >I have a problem. Reading email from you, or Martha and a few others is >very difficult because I have to scroll horizontally. Your messages are >not coming with defined margins. Can I ask what email software you use? >I want to figure this out so I know the answer to the problem. Anyone >else have this problem? >Martin Nyberg > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 00:36:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21276 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:36:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA26484; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26393 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:23:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.79] (pm3shep2-163-79.intrepid.net [209.190.163.79]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25736 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:25:29 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:26:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: The Biodynamic Honeybee Symposium Website Updated! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 220 I've finally finished updating the Biodynamic Honeybee Symposium web-site. You can take a look at it at: http://igg.com/spiritual_ag/european/steiner/beekeeping/beesymposium/ There are now SEVEN Symposiums!! Here are the topics: #1 Honeybee Health #2 The Hive Box #3 Springtime in the Apiary #4 Swarming #5 Beekeeper Practices #6 Varorra #7 The Spiritual Side of Beekeeping Which reminds me: Do you know anyone who is working with essential oils in honey? **AND** Do you know of a good quote that sets off the honeybee's contribution to horticulture? Thanks -Allan "Skemp" Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 06:16:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA24251 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:16:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA12998; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:02:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA08083 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:48:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp222.cy-net.net [208.21.195.31]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA02688 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:03:48 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE549D.04316FE0@FLYLO>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:28:16 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE549D.04316FE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:28:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE549D.043A97A0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 221 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE549D.043A97A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One more post on AI, then I quit this theme. It's not on the main agenda = anyhow. I use the method as a tool when I have to think of avoiding = inbreeding or if I have a bloodline I want to preserve. I have seen the = results of ignorance in ranching when pasture breeding wrong animals = together. 9 months later, no matter the mating aura, the cow suffers = greatly if she's danced before the wrong bull. If there's only one in = the pasture, it's the owner's fault of course, but still doesn't help = the cow give birth to impossible offspring. I've seen my work as a = valuable tool to enable farmers keep brood cows they otherwise would = have destroyed. If there were more documentation on birth weights = resulting from bulls using natural service, this wouldn't be a problem.=20 Ferdy, I can agree with most of your posts, but on reading them as a = whole, I'd have to conclude that you are saying that all technology is = bad.=20 To the person who is having trouble with my posts, please find Format / = and select word wrap or 'wrap to fit lines'. I'm using MS Outlook and it = uses Word as an e-mail writer. For some reason, it goes 130 letters per = line before wrapping back. If I could change it to wrap at lesser = letters, I surely would. martha (tx)=20 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE549D.043A97A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhEIAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAMgAAAFJFOiBhcnRpZmljaWFsIGluc2VtaW5hdGlvbiBPRkYgdGhlIHBs 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------ =_NextPart_000_01BE549D.043A97A0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 06:17:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA24259 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:17:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA13596; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:07:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA13546 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:06:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0109.direct.ca ([204.244.83.9] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AXVH-0005Fa-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:08:24 -0800 Message-ID: <36C1681D.A454D008@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:06:05 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic..(computer ware..) References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> <36C1077D.7B407EAF@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 222 Dear Martin, Atop of your window should be (in view) a line saying: wrap lines. If you press that button, the lines will appear within your window, I think. I am using Window 98. It has a few more bells and whistles and I liked 95 much better (beforehand). But, like anything that you use for a while: you are getting used to.......! Made Bill Gates more money, hm? But my problem is my son......! He is a computer specialist working for a computer store and ever so happy if he can install new tricks and inventions. At the beginning I almost went berserk. Now, it is getting better, I must say. Mind you, come to think of it, I have a problem with opening Martha's mail too. I need a Plug In Finder (or whatever it is called) and download it. Any recommendations? Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Hi Ferdy and all, > I have a problem. Reading email from you, or Martha and a few others is very difficult because I have to scroll horizontally. Your messages are not coming with defined margins. Can I ask what email software you use? I want to figure this out so I know the answer to the problem. Anyone else have this problem? > Martin Nyberg > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Dear Martha, > > Well, well, well. Must it all go to pot? I understand your anger. It ain't easy. I know. We are were we are. AI is in, the bull is out. So, let us look at the situation. > > > > Steiner (approx 1924): within 50 years you'll have such problems due to AI, and it started in his time, that you may have to ask yourself: what can be done with our cows. Illnesses, defo