From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Feb 2 12:20:13 2000 Date: 02 Feb 2000 12:20:13 -0500 From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA Message-ID: <949512013@metalab.unc.edu> X-IMAP: 0921343314 0000003416 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 11:18:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17477 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:18:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA00287; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:06:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00155 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:05:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10LqwJ-0002Wh-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:07:10 -0800 Message-ID: <36EA8C89.49E9AF66@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:04:25 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: unable to receive/send mail References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 The challenge is an additional one. I am trying to receive some 20 - 40 posts and store them. Then, I go through them step by step and either discharge them or answer. The answer I store in order to send it the next day - but what really irks me is the fact that (at times) my system or the connection or whatever breaks down and a long night's work is gone. Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >Dear friends, > > > >Living in the boonies has its disadvantages, too. My server does not > >have enough lines and I can only receive or send posts for about 4 - 5 > >hours per night. So, if you do not hear from you that much any longer, > >it is the server that has 'cut me out'. In the past I could 'digest' > >posts on an ongoing basis. At the moment there is a line : user > >relationship of 1:20 which is far too high. Regards Ferdinand > > Everyone: > > Many of us are faced with this problem. A remedy is on the horizon. Many of > the national long distance companies are offering internet connections as > part of your regular service. You might want to check in with AT&T or > Sprint, and so on. > > -Allan Balliett > igg@igg.com -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 11:25:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17549 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:25:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01112; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00834 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:12:19 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hEMOa14074 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:14:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <33ae8fa4.36ea8ed3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:14:11 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Opportunity Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 Cornucopia Farms in Malibu, Ca. is looking for a BD farmer to start a CSA and educate school kids and adults. They are a non-profit outfit and have a generous salary to go with the job. Growing sites amount to about 16 acres and are discontiguous. Growing is year 'round in the coastal climate. Many grocery stores and restaurants will forward all compostable scraps for a community compost venture. Contact me for more info. Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 11:34:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17672 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:34:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01816; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:24:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01642 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:22:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10LrDY-0003J6-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:24:52 -0800 Message-ID: <36EA90BB.238C48AB@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:22:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 My dear friend Rex, 18 years ago I had a son (who is now 25) who had the most deformed teeth arrangement one could imagine. I went to a dentist (in Germany) who happened to be an Anthroposophist. We discussed Chris' teeth and he said to me: There are two possibilities 1. We tear, re-set, brace and file or 2. You do Eurythmie (Dr. Steiner's movement) with him for a long time. IN the morning, for 10 minutes. Well, my son and I did it for 2 - 3 years. His teeth have re-arranged themselves totally. You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are starting to lose their connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is like an artist gone bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative forces are 'painting' all over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and that, funny enough are the teeth and the skull). Here, the most intensive, the most exacting (again, if one want to call it that way) work has to be done (millimeter, thens of a millimeter work) so that the teeth fit onto each other. Well, if we do NOT love the creation, we will not go to work with it over long(er) periods of time. We are going to be challenged in our hearts. Cutting, trimming, operating, stunting, hacking etc. etc. are short term solutions which, as far as I am concerned, does not demand much love but rather technical know-how (well, a bit of love, too - to learn the techniqe). However, when you do Euruthmy with a child OR work eurythmically with nature, you have to become one with it first so that you may understand it better. You have to give up your (technical, preconceived) ideas and 'suffer' with the creation first BEFORE you can offer (short lived) solutions. Dr. Steiner's indications are indications for the very long term. Of course, we can see changes within a year or two when applying BD Preparations, however, the very long term changes will only become known in many, many generations. Again, much more could be said. Regards Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote "Let me say this": > > > The tail of any animal is connected to is psyche. Every animal expresses > > its feelings via its tail. I can see that with my (small brain Ostriches) > > and my dogs, the cat, horses, cows and all. If you cut that part of or > > shorten it, the animal tends to get out of balance. Nature would take > > care of this by eliminating such 'a creation'. Sheep that cannot signal > > their pleasure or displeasure to their mates would, eventually, be > > eliminated by the wolf. > > > > Of course, mankind has done a lot of diforming of animals by Xbreeding, > > off-breeding, inbreeding, outbreeding and so forth. Most animals that we > > call domesticated would likely not survive by themselves in nature for > > long. It is likely that (if such breeds would survive for a while) future > > generations would start to 'approximate' their ancestors again. > > > > My sister is breeding Rottweiler (dogs) and by law (in Switzerland) and > > as of the year 2000 tails must NOT be cut any longer. What a different > > looking dog a Rottweiler with a long tail is. It is mindboggling. And > > now, by the 'power of this long tail' the entire pivoting point of the > > dog is shifting to the back. It is as if a new organ (i.e. the old one) > > has been added again and it is MUCH easier to read this dog again. > > > > Much more could be said. > > MUCH MORE COULD BE SAID! Good grief, must you contiually astound me? Can we stretch your > thought to cover the pitifully thin facial organs of so many of today's mineral-poor children? > Can we go so far as to recognize that pulling children's wisdom teeth and using tortuous metal > braces to reform their very skull bones is as barbaric as cutting off Rottweilers' tails? Can > we finally understand that we are castrating our children by not providing them abundant > mineral-rich fare? > > I *really* appreciated this post. Right now I'm wondering if there is a long line of would-be > apprentices forming for the no-pay privilege of working shoulder-to-shoulder for a season with > a man who sees the universe in marvelous light. > > Regards, > Rex Harrill -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 12:01:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17990 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:01:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04156; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:51:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03921 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:49:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p00-21.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.176]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id KAA17219 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:52:23 -0600 Message-ID: <000d01be6d82$d34d7f00$b0f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: zodiac-help-glen Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:52:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE6D3F.8DA4AF20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE6D3F.8DA4AF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Glen- Oh how I wrestle and am fascinated with the planting calendar. I'm = trying to understand the concept that I copy below. If every 72 years we = drop 1 degree, after 2000 I figure we would drop 1 degree 27.777 times. = Now forgive me for being a fool but did the Greek calendar start with O = A.D., and how did Mrs. Henderson get 2000 years in 1989. So where are we = actually right now in 1999, and what does this say for a person born = December 3 of 1966. Am I not really a Sagittarius? This could shake some = things up for me, I have thought myself to be so typical of a Fire sign. = Will I have to change my ways? With stars, Parker Biodynamics: New directions for Farming and Gardening in New Zealand New Zealand Biodynamic Assoc. 1989 The Greek civilisation introduced the =91tropical=92 zodiac; an equal = division of the full 360 degree circle of the zodiac into 12 parts of 30 = degrees. In speaking about the zodiac, there is often some confusion over the use = of the terms =91constellations=92 and =91signs=92. When the Greeks = worked out their calendar, the vernal point stood at 0 degrees in the = sign of Aries, the star picture of the Ram. (The vernal point is the = position in the sky behind the rising sun on the spring equinox = (Northern Hemisphere). However, the cycle from one spring equinox to = another (tropical year) is approxiamately 20 minutes shorter than the = sun takes to return to a same fixed star (sidereal year). In other = words, the equinox is happening each year before the sun has reached the = same place in the zodiac as the previous year. Hence after 72 years the = sun at the equinox no longer rises in exactly the same place in the sky, = but one degree before. Thus, in the 2000 years since the Greeks, the = vernal point has moved into the previous sign; at present it is 16 = degrees Pisces, the star picture of the Fishes. Modern astrologers, = however, take no notice of what we can observe in the sky, but continue = to call the present vernal point =910 degrees Aries=92. Thus the names = for the astrological =91signs=92 no longer correlate with their star = pictures i.e. what can actually be seen in the sky. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE6D3F.8DA4AF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Glen-
Oh how I wrestle and am fascinated = with the=20 planting calendar. I'm trying to understand the concept that I copy = below. If=20 every 72 years we drop 1 degree, after 2000 I figure we would drop 1 = degree=20 27.777 times. Now forgive me for being a fool but did the Greek calendar = start=20 with O A.D., and how did Mrs. Henderson get 2000 years in 1989. So where = are we=20 actually right now in 1999, and what does this say for a person born = December 3=20 of 1966. Am I not really a Sagittarius? This could shake some things up = for me,=20 I have thought myself to be so typical of a Fire sign. Will I have to = change my=20 ways?
 
With stars,
Parker

Biodynamics: New directions for Farming and Gardening in New = Zealand

New Zealand Biodynamic Assoc. 1989

The Greek civilisation introduced the ‘tropical’ zodiac; = an equal=20 division of the full 360 degree circle of the zodiac into 12 parts of 30 = degrees.

In speaking about the zodiac, there is often some confusion over the = use of=20 the terms ‘constellations’ and ‘signs’. When the = Greeks=20 worked out their calendar, the vernal point stood at 0 degrees in the = sign of=20 Aries, the star picture of the Ram. (The vernal point is the position in = the sky=20 behind the rising sun on the spring equinox (Northern Hemisphere). = However, the=20 cycle from one spring equinox to another (tropical year) is = approxiamately 20=20 minutes shorter than the sun takes to return to a same fixed star = (sidereal=20 year). In other words, the equinox is happening each year before = the sun=20 has reached the same place in the zodiac as the previous year. Hence = after 72=20 years the sun at the equinox no longer rises in exactly the same place = in the=20 sky, but one degree before. Thus, in the 2000 years since the Greeks, = the vernal=20 point has moved into the previous sign; at present it is 16 degrees = Pisces, the=20 star picture of the Fishes. Modern astrologers, however, take no notice = of what=20 we can observe in the sky, but continue to call the present vernal point = ‘0 degrees Aries’. Thus the names for the astrological=20 ‘signs’ no longer correlate with their star pictures i.e. = what can=20 actually be seen in the sky.

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE6D3F.8DA4AF20-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 12:22:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18216 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA06181; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:12:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06007 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:10:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.26.86 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:12:47 -0800 Message-ID: <001501be6d74$522457e0$561a2599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: OFF: CSA Opportunity Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:09:13 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 Dear Friends, Please, if you can, send me more specific information on this opportunity - as I would like to pass it on to the over 250 students I am working with at SRJC this semester (most of whom are adults i.e. older than the usual college crowd - many of which already have some experience). Do you have a flier? We have on-going courses right now on CSA, organic/ecological gardening (vegetables), commercial organic composting, organic specialty crop production (fruits, flowers & herbs), organic viticulture and ecological resource management at our college's 365 acre farm. We will also be offering advanced organic vegetable and fruit growing course in summer - so there a good sized group to canvas for potential farmers. We also have a very nice biodynamic community education program developing here (non-college-related) with roughly thirty participants - many of whom may also be interested. We'll be having another workshop fairly soon, so I could pass out fliers there too. Thanks and the best of luck finding just the right folks! Cheers, Andrew From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 15:44:08 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20630 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:44:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24327; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24021 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:30:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-017.midcoast.com [208.153.20.117]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26990 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:33:12 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990313151549.007b4300@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:15:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces In-Reply-To: <36EA90BB.238C48AB@direct.ca> References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Dear Rex, Ferdinand, and others, One of the most powerful books I have found which connects nutrition with dental health and/or dental degeneration is "NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL DEGENERATION" by Weston A. Price DDS, 512 pages. In the early 1930s Dr. Price and his wife traveled to every corner of the world to study the diets and health of 14 isolated native tribes in Africa, South America, Australia, Polynesia, as well as North American Indians and Eskimos. He compared the health of groups who only ate their historical native diet with people of the same tribe who ate diets of commerce -- white flour, white sugar, and processed foods. From the data, including hundreds of photographs, the Prices produced one of the most significant books on nutrition ever published. Its thesis, that the naturally chosen "primitive" diet promoted health and that the modern "civilized" diet, led to rapid degeneration of overall health and physical structure, was revolutionary for its time and far from generally accepted. The wealth of evidence and fascinating detail Dr. Price provides is as informative and valuable today as it was half a century ago. His investigations showed that it takes only one generation of eating a "Westernized" diet to produce severe dental caries, malformed jawbones, and misaligned teeth. Dr. Price practiced dentistry in Cleveland, Ohio. He died in 1948. The Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation of San Diego was established to disseminate his nutritional discoveries. > >You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are starting to lose their >connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is like an artist gone >bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative forces are 'painting' all >over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and that, funny enough are the >teeth and the skull). Here Impaired connection with the formative forces show up in the teeth because each tooth is energetically linked to all systems of the body via the meridian pathways. Dr. Price's research showed that people who ate food raised and prepared according to their native dietary traditions, almost never had tooth decay or misaligned teeth. Even more interesting, was the practice in these cultures of modifying the diet prior to conceiving children. The diet was enhanced for both men and women to help the couple have the forces that were needed to produce healthy children. thanks, John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Mar 11 23:49:10 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA17917 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:49:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA02769; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:34:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from scn4.scn.org (scn4.scn.org [209.63.95.149]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02633 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:33:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from scn.org (bg006@scn [209.63.95.146]) by scn4.scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA27719 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bg006@localhost) by scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA27220; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:35:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:35:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903120435.UAA27220@scn.org> From: bg006@scn.org (Douglas Hendrickson) To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Grafting Wax Recipe containing Beeswax. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 Thanks Jim for forwarding this! > >>From University of California publication 1981 - leaflet 21103 >Division of Agricultural Sciences. >"Propagation of Temperate-Zone Fruit Plants" p. 47. > >GRAFTING WAXES AND OTHER GRAFTING MATERIALS > >'A satisfactory hot wax consists of 5 pounds of resin, three-quarter >pound of beeswax, half pint of raw linseed oil, 1 oz lampblack, and 1 >and a half oz of flake glue. Melt the resin first, then add and melt >the beeswax. Remove the mixture from the heat and stir in the linseed >oil and lampblack. Use a double boiler to heat the glue, use just >enough water to disolve the glue. Then add the glue slowly (while >stirring) to the wax, which has cooled somewhat but is still liquid. >If you add the glue too rapidly while the wax is still warm, the entire >mass will boil over. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 18:04:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22027 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:04:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA07095; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:51:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06932 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:49:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d141.infoserve.net [199.175.157.141]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19508 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:54:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001001be6da4$1875f3c0$8d9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:48:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 Dear John, Ferdy &bdnow, My father, Steven, worked in South America and West Africa in the 1950's. As an mining engineer on exploration on foot, he worked with several native groups. He found that most had never seen a toothbrush in their life but had perfect teeth while eating their traditional diets. My father came to the same conclusion, unscientifically. I have also read years ago how not only the teeth are affected by "processed" diet, but, there are other general health affects as well. One of the more well-known one is diabetes. Very high in the Canadian native populations. Directly linked to the white-man's diet. Michael -----Original Message----- From: John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 12:54 PM Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces >Dear Rex, Ferdinand, and others, > >One of the most powerful books I have found which connects nutrition with >dental health and/or dental degeneration is "NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL >DEGENERATION" by Weston A. Price DDS, 512 pages. > > In the early 1930s Dr. Price and his wife traveled to every corner of the >world to study the diets and health of 14 isolated native tribes in Africa, >South America, Australia, Polynesia, as well as North American Indians and >Eskimos. He compared the health of groups who only ate their historical >native diet with people of the same tribe who ate diets of commerce -- >white flour, white sugar, and processed foods. From the data, including >hundreds of photographs, the Prices produced one of the most significant >books on nutrition ever published. Its thesis, that the naturally chosen >"primitive" diet promoted health and that the modern "civilized" diet, led >to rapid degeneration of overall health and physical structure, was >revolutionary for its time and far from generally accepted. The wealth of >evidence and fascinating detail Dr. Price provides is as informative and >valuable today as it was half a century ago. His investigations showed >that it takes only one generation of eating a "Westernized" diet to produce >severe dental caries, malformed jawbones, and misaligned teeth. Dr. Price >practiced dentistry in Cleveland, Ohio. He died in 1948. The >Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation of San Diego was established to >disseminate his nutritional discoveries. > >> >>You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are >starting to lose their >>connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is >like an artist gone >>bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative >forces are 'painting' all >>over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and >that, funny enough are the >>teeth and the skull). Here > >Impaired connection with the formative forces show up in the teeth because >each tooth is energetically linked to all systems of the body via the >meridian pathways. Dr. Price's research showed that people who ate food >raised and prepared according to their native dietary traditions, almost >never had tooth decay or misaligned teeth. Even more interesting, was the >practice in these cultures of modifying the diet prior to conceiving >children. The diet was enhanced for both men and women to help the couple >have the forces that were needed to produce healthy children. > >thanks, John > > >St. George Farm >Freedom, Maine, USA > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 20:20:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23353 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:20:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA17229; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:09:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16939 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:07:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-75.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.75]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12019 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:09:47 +1100 Message-ID: <009501be6db7$4136b660$4b431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: Basalt dust Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:48:20 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 RE basalt dust. One aspect that I have learned of lately is that the paramagnetic quality is most important aspect. Phillip Callaghan has a machine out that tests this, and apparently you can be wasting your time and money if you don't use the rock dust with the higher paramagnetic qualities. The other point is that it must be 30 microns, (like talcum powder) to be absorbed easily by the soil. It is used a lot in Australian BD farms, as our soils are old and leached and desperately need re mineralising. Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Wm Hurrle To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, 14 March 1999 2:01 am Subject: Re: Basalt dust > >Dear All, > > Rock dusts: The magazine is Remineralize the Earth, 152 South St., >Northampton, MA 01060, 413-586-4429, -6064 fax, ReminEarth@aol.com. Three >issues a year for $25. This is 1996 information. > The Survival of Civilization by John D.Hamaker & Donald A. Weaver, ISBN >0-941550-00-1, Hamaker-Weaver Publishers, POB 1961, Seymour, MO 65746, $12. >This is a remarkable book. > The oldest information on the subject I know is the 1894 monograph, >Bread from Stones, by Julius Hensel. I got a mimeo copy translated from the >German from Health Research, POB 70, Mokelumene Hill, CA 95245. > Another source is The Enlivened Rock Powders by Harvey Lisle, 4427 State >Rt.601, Norwalk, OH 44857, $15 + $1.50 s&h. I've not read this book. ACRES, >usa, is into it. Christopher Bird also wrote about remineralization. I think >ATTRA has a publication on it, too. > Soil microbes need the widest menu of elements possible to be healthy. >Correct management of the carbon cycle is not enough. Since the last glacier >ground and distributed rock dust, precipitation and our lousy ag have >leached elements out of the soils. To keep them healthy rock dust >ammendments are needed. There are numbers of businesses devoted to supplying >special rock dust conditioners. The aggregate industry is aware of the ag >use of fines that are otherwise a drag on their operations. Contact the >state associations. Remin the Earth will send a list of them for $1 and a >SASE. There are outfits in Europe and Australia that sell minerals, too. > >Regards, > >Wm Hurrle > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 20:21:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23382 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:20:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA17154; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:09:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16938 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-75.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.75]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12016 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:09:43 +1100 Message-ID: <009401be6db7$3fa3e160$4b431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: spraying by air Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:37:01 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 Dear David, Your parachute idea sounds interesting. Spraying 500 on by air is done often in Australia and NZ on large areas. It is quite a set up getting the water heated and 500 stirred in a large enough quantity for the plane to fill up, but saves a lot of time and energy when covering 100s of hectares. There is one valley in NZ where about three famers join together to share the stirring, (by flowform) and one has the whole set up next to the airstrip, and they share the cost of the plane and get all their properties sprayed together. Their land is from mountain peaks to river flats, so would be very difficult to cover by tractor. They also make their own fish emulsion and spray that on as well. Hamish Mackay, who is a BD member in Australia hmackay@ozemail.com.au used to go around with the equipment to stir and would arrange flying on, so if you wanted further information he could help you. I like the idea of parachutes for 501, as one of the problems we have for say grain crops is if they are not sown in rows leaving tractor tracks, then it is hard to get the 501 out without damage to the crop. I will have to get more experiments done with the towers to see if that can help here too. We also need to look at ways to get sprays on when it is too wet to take the tractors out as has been happening here lately. David, how to you control the direction of the parachute? Is it like those remote controlled boats and planes? Sounds like a great idea for Australia, can you send me more info. Thanks, bio@midcoast.com.au Ferdinand thought that the droplets would be too fine or high to work, but all I know is that putting 500 on by air works, and I think they use quite a heavy spray to get the droplets to earth. Great idea, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 ---Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, 14 March 1999 12:58 am Subject: Re: spraying by air >It probably is a shortcoming of my own that there is no 'introductory >statement' required for joining the BD Now! community. (Of course, a great >many people prefer that!) In a case like David Griffith's, this shortcoming >becomes glaring. > >For those of you who do not know, David is the founder/owner/manager of 7 >Stars Farm in Kimberton (OK, you knew that much) David and his family make >the absolute best yogurt (Seven Stars) that you can buy in a health food >store. (The thick cream on the top of the original version is a dream to we >Sally Fallon fans!! :-) 7 Stars also makes several wonderful varieties of >cheeses, but these, as far as I know, are not distrubted commercially. > >David knows what he is doing with BD, the proof is in his 'pudding.' > >All this makes the question below all the more interesting! > >David, I have to ask: how much acreage do you prep yearly and how often do >you spray a farm that is as well established as yours? > >-Allan Balliett >moderator >BD Now! >igg@igg.com > > > >>I am looking into spraying preps by powered parachutes. These are slow moving >>(26 mph), relatively safe, high payload (800 -1000 lbs), and not too >>expensive. The idea would be to use a boomless jet and an electric diaphram >>pump to deliver about 2 to 3 gal./acre from about 50 -60 ft above the ground >>(out of the way of lines and trees). Spaying times would be early morning >>(501) and early evenings (500). Any comments or suggestions? David Griffiths >>Seven Stars Farm, Kimberton PA > > > > >=========================================================================== > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food >that promotes human development. > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > >listproc@envirolink.org > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > >subscribe bdnow > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 21:07:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23683 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:07:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA20932; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:53:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA20751 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:51:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.84]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990314015430.WRFB682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:54:30 +1300 Message-ID: <36EB170F.CEA@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:55:27 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: zodiac -help-glen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 > Dear Glen- Parker did you read the article I posted on this subject a couple of weeks ago? > Oh how I wrestle and am fascinated with the planting calendar. I'm trying to understand the concept that I copy below. If every 72 > years we drop 1 degree, after 2000 I figure we would drop 1 degree 27.777 times. Now forgive me for being a fool but did the Greek > calendar start with O A.D., I must say when I think about it I do not really know. I had always considered our calendar was created by the Romans. It would not have been orientated to the Christs birth until 300AD or so when the roman emporers became Christian. The adoption of the tropical zodiac in modern times was initiated by Ptolemy ( a greek) in around 200AD as I understand it (AIUI). It was not specifical connected to the christ. It was more an orientating on the spring equinox of the Earth as a time frame and 12 fold division of the Earth, rather than a twelvefold orientation to the constellations. This is an 'Earthing' action as I am sure you can imagine. I understand the tropical zodiac was used in Eygpt prior to the Greeks. So this is just a renewal of an old system. The act of moving a universal law to another reference point is a very common astrological practise. AIUI it was more a coincidence that Ptolemy noticed the spring equinox was 200 years prior to himself and that it feel at the time of Christ birth than a conscious action. A touch of universal synchronisty one might say. Ptolemy was the first guy to measure the movement of the stars in relationship to one another for some hundreds of years and so would have come across such a thing. and how did Mrs. Henderson get 2000 years in 1989. sorry not sure what you are talking about here. So where are we actually right now in 1999, The piece you quoted said the spring equinox is at 16 degrees Pisces. Is this a miss print. I hope so, or the BDANZ have done it again - out there in their own belief of the truth. There are three systems of constellational division as I understand it. The most common ones AIUI are a equal division of the zodiac using Alderbaren and Antares as the mid points of Taurus and Scorpio. An unequal system based on this same starting point, and another unequal division the BDANZ ensures us is accepted by the international Astronomical union. The first has us about 3 deg Pisces, the second about 4 degress and the third I understand is between 6-7 degrees. Changeover is between 216 years and 504 years. There are all sorts of debates that arise from this of course. As if we have uneven constellations then we will have uneven ages of evolution as well and if this is so, then our neat little maths of each age lasting 2156 years is only based on an equal division reality. An assiduous study of ancient history would be needed to pinpoint the exact dates of age changes. Till now it is very easy for us to use the 2156 years per age, math. This may easily be the case of course. and what > does this say for a person born December 3 of 1966. Am I not really a Sagittarius? You are a sign of Sagittarius and a constellation of Scorpio person. You are both Interestingly you are a 10 degree Sagittarius. Pluto is conjuncting you right now and moving over a strong part of your chart in the next couple of years. Might I suggest you seek out a good local Astrologer and go and have a chat to them about what this can mean for you. We also come onto what is the sign area of your being and what is the constellation area. refer my earlier article. Essentially the sign being is the chart of the incarnated spirt and the constellational chart is the chart of the unincarnated aspects of yourself, still with the universal spirit. Very unconscious stuff usually. You are both. This same sort of definition can be seen between the Geocentric or earth centre chart and the helio centred or Sun centred chart. So that the Geocentric Tropical chart is a real earth incarnation bound chart, while the Sidereal heliocentric chart is a major spiritual chart. And there are several inbetween charts one can used to see different snap shots of the same being. This could shake some things up for me, I have > thought myself to be so typical of a Fire sign. Will I have to change my ways? On earth you probably are , as you develop spiritually (on earth) you will become more of a scorpio. The spiritual chart appears to come from inside out while the material chart appears to come form outside in. Life is the balance of the two. As always all is one. I hope this helps your quest. Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 03:44:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA29259 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 03:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA14571; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 03:30:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14506 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 03:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0114.direct.ca ([204.244.83.14] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10M6JL-00033e-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 00:31:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36EB7340.5D6358EC@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 00:28:48 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: A smelly Subject and goat horns References: <01BE6BBF.FAFA8440@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 Dear Martha, Bury the horns in your compost for about 3 months (make sure no dog can get it). Once the inside of the horn has decayed, we will talk about it again. Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > When I milk my goats, I tend to give them the sniff test. Breath, hide, > (just a random quick check to make sure everyone is in 'working order'.) > You know by the breath if the rumen is off kilter, and if the hair / hide > isn't healthy, the animal has been ill for awhile. Their healthy skin > always smell like pure sunshine to me. I have a very small tomato I plant > not because I like the fruit so much, but the plant smells exactly like > healthy horse sweat! > I haven't had cause to sniff any livestock in a confined stall situation, > but I imagine they would have a stale odor. I HAVE driven past broiler > 'factories', and you can't drive fast enough or hold your nose long enough. > How do the people who live/work those places stand it? Not to mention the > animals they're attempting to raise. > For Allan, the horn topic: > (I know it's the other end you are worried about, but this is a 'fer > instance': > Just hauled Amelia to the vet, a 3 yr old milker and the only one with > horns. She was pretty good about not getting caught in the fences with > them, but she did use them on the other goats. Our herd queen is 14 yrs > old, and when Amelia vied for queen spot and knocked Mesmerizer for a loop, > I said, they're OFF. Vet charge: $24.50, not bad, but the drugs (rompum, > some antibiotic, some other inflammatory stuff, will remain in her milk for > a couple of weeks. She'll be off milk production now for about that long, > and the risk of knocking a ruminant out is always very high. So, if you > think you might ever want to dehorn a goat, don't wait till it's a regret, > do it while they're babies and won't remember too much. If you have small > children around pet goats, you'll always have to watch the horns. A nose, > an eye, little hands all can get hooked by accident. > For Ferdinand: I now have 2 rather fresh goat horns but they're still > filled with 'chalk', how do I clean them and should I bother? (martha) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 06:56:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA03528 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:56:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA20714; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:42:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20500 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:39:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.150] (pm3shep2-163-85.intrepid.net [209.190.163.85]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12587 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:42:16 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:44:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 remove bdnow julie tyling@algonet.se add bdnow julie donnas@yancey.main.nc.us Donna Shalooie remove bdnow julie p-dwyer@aloha.net add bdnow julie livepower@igc.apc.org gloria decater From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 07:08:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA03795 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA21267; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21107 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:51:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.150] (pm3shep2-163-85.intrepid.net [209.190.163.85]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13335 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:53:49 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:55:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 delete bdnow tubbo tyling@algonet.se delete bdnow tubbo p-dwyer@aloha.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 07:11:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA03881 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:11:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA21401; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:57:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21290 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:54:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.150] (pm3shep2-163-85.intrepid.net [209.190.163.85]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13601 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:57:18 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:59:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: Routing Test Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 08:03:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA04929 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23202; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:48:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA23102 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:44:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p00-93.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.248]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id GAA29962 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:47:37 -0600 Message-ID: <000f01be6e29$cbcd5aa0$f8f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: zodiac -help-glen Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:47:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Dear Glen- Thanks much for the info. I'm not sure I recall the article, would you be able to send it my way via e-mail? Very interesting, the notion that spiritually I could be moving toward Scorpio, I will have to read some of Scorpio. I will also look up a local astrologer, the Pluto conjucting me worries me some. Take care, Parker -----Original Message----- From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 5:57 PM Subject: zodiac -help-glen >> Dear Glen- > >Parker did you read the article I posted on this subject a couple of >weeks ago? > > >> Oh how I wrestle and am fascinated with the planting calendar. I'm trying to understand the concept that I copy below. If every 72 >> years we drop 1 degree, after 2000 I figure we would drop 1 degree 27.777 times. Now forgive me for being a fool but did the Greek >> calendar start with O A.D., > > >I must say when I think about it I do not really know. I had always >considered our calendar was created by the Romans. It would not have >been orientated to the Christs birth until 300AD or so when the roman >emporers became Christian. > >The adoption of the tropical zodiac in modern times was initiated by >Ptolemy ( a greek) in around 200AD as I understand it (AIUI). It was not >specifical connected to the christ. It was more an orientating on the >spring equinox of the Earth as a time frame and 12 fold division of the >Earth, rather than a twelvefold orientation to the constellations. This >is an 'Earthing' action as I am sure you can imagine. > >I understand the tropical zodiac was used in Eygpt prior to the Greeks. >So this is just a renewal of an old system. The act of moving a >universal law to another reference point is a very common astrological >practise. > >AIUI it was more a coincidence that Ptolemy noticed the spring equinox >was 200 years prior to himself and that it feel at the time of Christ >birth than a conscious action. A touch of universal synchronisty one >might say. Ptolemy was the first guy to measure the movement of the >stars in relationship to one another for some hundreds of years and so >would have come across such a thing. > > > and how did Mrs. Henderson get 2000 years in 1989. > >sorry not sure what you are talking about here. > > So where are we actually right now in 1999, > > > >The piece you quoted said the spring equinox is at 16 degrees Pisces. > >Is this a miss print. I hope so, or the BDANZ have done it again - out >there in their own belief of the truth. > >There are three systems of constellational division as I understand it. >The most common ones AIUI are a equal division of the zodiac using >Alderbaren and Antares as the mid points of Taurus and Scorpio. An >unequal system based on this same starting point, and another unequal >division the BDANZ ensures us is accepted by the international >Astronomical union. The first has us about 3 deg Pisces, the second >about 4 degress and the third I understand is between 6-7 degrees. >Changeover is between 216 years and 504 years. > >There are all sorts of debates that arise from this of course. As if we >have uneven constellations then we will have uneven ages of evolution as >well and if this is so, then our neat little maths of each age lasting >2156 years is only based on an equal division reality. An assiduous >study of ancient history would be needed to pinpoint the exact dates of >age changes. Till now it is very easy for us to use the 2156 years per >age, math. This may easily be the case of course. > > > >and what >> does this say for a person born December 3 of 1966. Am I not really a Sagittarius? > >You are a sign of Sagittarius and a constellation of Scorpio person. You >are both > >Interestingly you are a 10 degree Sagittarius. Pluto is conjuncting you >right now and moving over a strong part of your chart in the next couple >of years. Might I suggest you seek out a good local Astrologer and go >and have a chat to them about what this can mean for you. > >We also come onto what is the sign area of your being and what is the >constellation area. refer my earlier article. Essentially the sign being >is the chart of the incarnated spirt and the constellational chart is >the chart of the unincarnated aspects of yourself, still with the >universal spirit. Very unconscious stuff usually. You are both. > >This same sort of definition can be seen between the Geocentric or earth >centre chart and the helio centred or Sun centred chart. So that the >Geocentric Tropical chart is a real earth incarnation bound chart, while >the Sidereal heliocentric chart is a major spiritual chart. And there >are several inbetween charts one can used to see different snap shots of >the same being. > > This could shake some things up for me, I have >> thought myself to be so typical of a Fire sign. Will I have to change my ways? > >On earth you probably are , as you develop spiritually (on earth) you >will become more of a scorpio. > >The spiritual chart appears to come from inside out while the material >chart appears to come form outside in. Life is the balance of the two. >As always all is one. > > >I hope this helps your quest. > >Cheers > >Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 08:54:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA05987 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA25165; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:40:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25045 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:37:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.150] (pm3shep1-163-23.intrepid.net [209.190.163.23]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23518 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:40:07 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:42:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF:Richard Alan Miller Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 Please let me know if you've taken a workshop or attended a lecture by herbalist Richard Alan Miller. Thank you, -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 09:47:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07920 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA28014; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:34:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27847 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:31:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.21]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:34:56 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:34:02 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: March 13, 1999 - March 19, 1999 Message-ID: <6B6FD883D158C0EF85256734004FFFBE.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id JAA27848 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 Calendar of the Soul [March 13, 1999 - March 19, 1999] Forty-ninth Week (March 9-15) I feel the force of cosmic life: Thus speaks my clarity of thought, Recalling its own spirit growth Through nights of cosmic darkness, And to the new approach of cosmic day It turns its inward rays of hope. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Ich fühle Kraft des Weltenseins: So spricht Gedankenklarheit, Gedenkend eignen Geistes Wachsen In finstern Weltennächten, Und neigt dem nahen Weltentage Des Innen Hoffnungsstrahlen. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+49 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 11:48:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11531 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:48:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA06350; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:36:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from dns1.mcn.org (root@dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06104 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:33:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from 204.189.12.80 (ha-3e-men-m045.mcn.org [204.189.12.80]) by dns1.mcn.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA23443 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:36:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EB75F4.5F8F@mcn.org> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:40:20 +0000 From: Kate Clarke Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Foxglove Farm (707) 937-4116 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: COTS: March 13, 1999 - March 19, 1999 References: <6B6FD883D158C0EF85256734004FFFBE.0000000000000000@webcity> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Dear Jane, Could you mail us the next few weeks of planting info from the Calander of Souls. I jut sent the order in for one but really need the info ASAP. Our greenhouses are full of starts and we need to get on the next round. Where do you farm? We are part of the Northern Ca. Family of farms, just sixteen miles from the coast. To all in the BD family; come visit as Mendocino is a paradise! We have camping, for a small fee, and incredible dinners all summer long. Join staff and crew at Foxglove Farm. Write for a brochure, Foxglove Farm, Box 143 Comptche, Ca. 95427 Thanks, Kate Clark From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 11:56:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11788 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA06997; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:45:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06865 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:44:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max4-24.stc.net [208.210.132.152]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28839 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:46:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36DAEDA6.4CA8BBBC@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:28:05 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: The sun as a Being calling forth the earth's warmth Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 >Dear friends, > >Every spring, every summer and throughout the whole year I work with a >question that simply does not get out of my mind. > >Does the sun really send down warmth (via its rays)? > >There are many observations that contradict this theory. And here is one >that I made in the past days> As you know it's been snowing like make - >for days. By now, and at 30 degrees Farenheit - we should have about >(lets say several) feet of snow. Yet, every morning only a few inches, >if that, have remained. > >So, could it be that the sun, actually, is calling forth the warmth of >the earth? Could it be that, like Dr. Steiner indicated that the water >of the seven seas wishes to go back to the moon, hence following it (and >not being attracted) the warmth of the earth wishes to follow the sun, >too? Could it be that what is living inside the earth, what has come >from the sun, is homesick and wishes to return home - E.T. GO HOME >(forgive me for this blurr...) SUNLIGHT GO HOME....!>!......... and, as >it is oozing tto the surface of the earth, is melting the snow from >underneath? > >Could it be what Dr. Pfeiffer has observed, that the sunlight, the sun's >warmth streaming into the earth at about 9m per day (27 - 30' per day) >that this light, transformed into warmth, wishes to go home again. > >Mysteries over mysteries. The sun is coming back. And, Dr. STeiner makes >it very clear that Persephone, the daughter of Demeter, is coming to the >surface of the earth again - how? look at the green shoots, look at the >emerging leaves, look at the flowers, the grain, the buds: she's >arriving. All the best Ferdinand Ferdy, Ever notice how when you cover up a patch in winter it stays green underneath, but do that in summer and it's dead in a weeK? That's holding the sun into the earth. I can't say for sure, but the earth does seem to give off heat and light when the sun strikes it. It does come from the surface upwards. Hope these observations help. Hugh >-- > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- > >FRIENDS: >To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows >(feedlots, AI, hormones, >excessive use of antibioticas, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage >etc.), 1999 is: >MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, >references, statistics >or your personal observations and stories related to cows. >I thank you for your help. Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 11:58:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11835 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:58:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07085; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:46:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06886 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:44:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max4-24.stc.net [208.210.132.152]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28889 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:46:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36DB498D.154B8C73@direct.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:45:43 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 >WITHOUT PREJUDICE > > >Dear Geoff, > >I do not want to get involved in a law case here; although it would be rather >difficult to make a case. Last year, however, I was threatened by Greg Willis >because I sent him a picture of 'a ram's head' that I needed to make >Preparation #505. I thought that he, too, was an able, well versed and >informed Preparation maker. I sent the same picture to other BDNOW addresses. > >Greg took my post as a personal attack and threatened me with the RCMP, the >FBI and a monster law case. Things got so badly out of hand that I stepped >back from any further contact with Greg Willis. > >However, a few months later, someone emailed me a letter with certain attacks >on Greg Willis and I defended him since I felt that a lot of things that were >said in this post could not be verified or were (likely) wrong. By mistake I >emailed this letter, to Greg - whereupon Greg immediately came back, argued my >defense (how shortsighted I was - that I did not know etc. etc.) yet, he asked >me whether I would want to become his spiritual student etc. etc. He also >included a few lessons of what I had to do in order to be accepted. > >I did not know what to do and sent him a nice reply; basically turning down >his offer. I did not want to offend him. He followed up by telling me that I, >under no circumstances, was ready for him and that I would have to work on >myself for many more years. It became offensive yet again. > >Well, I really do not need to be a student to a man who threatened me with all >kinds of stuff and who used foulest language against me. So, do I need to say >more? > >Of course, we are on a continent on which free speech is protected (- in the >US - I forget which XYZ Amendment), and that is beautiful. But I do not need >to be 'amended' by any personal attack(s) - and that is that. > >There are other statements of Greg's that do not fit BD; I do not have the >time to play detective. He is 'free' to say what he thinks and whoever uses >his info will have to check it him/herself (as should be done with any info >that comes across the Web and BDNOW) We all are exposed to a variety of >challenges (mental, physical, financial etc. etc.) and Greg has his, I am >sure. > >I understand that there may be a person (or two) on this list that communicate >with Greg Willis on a regular basis; and I hear that they are preparing a case >against those who, apparently, attack him slanderously. I do not know of any >slanderous attacks on Greg Willis. His attacks on me have been composted and >are, now, well rotted. > >With kind regards: Ferdinand Vondruska > > >PS I am pretty sure I never sent that quote via BDNOW! Where did you get it >from? > >Geoff Heinricks wrote: > >> >Agsyn.com is working with Greg Willis and, as far as I am concerned, many >> >things >> >are amiss there. Regards Ferdinand >> >> Ferdinand, >> >> >From what I've seen, you're not one to shy away from fully outlining your >> reasons. I'd appreciate your thoughts on how and why you've come to this >> conclusion. >> >> Cheers, >> Geoff Heinricks >> Prince Edward Co >> Ontario > > > >-- > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- > >FRIENDS: >To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows >(feedlots, AI, hormones, >excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), >1999 is: >MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, >references, statistics >or your personal observations and stories related to cows. >I thank you for your help. Dear Greg, Seems unseamsly lawsuits and all, But keep me informed. Hugh Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 11:58:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11859 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:58:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07274; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:48:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06896 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:44:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max4-24.stc.net [208.210.132.152]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28904 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:47:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38a9623a.36dc0363@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:59:04 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Study L3:2 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 >To Margaret Kemp: >In answer to your question I am enlarging the quote from "The Work of the >Angels in Man's Astral Body", R.Steiner. Although it has more social focus, I >did find a certain "nitrogen" quality therein. By the way, the booklet is >normally available from Anthroposphic Press, temporarily out of print >Christine >(abbreviated, pages 8-10) >...these beings form pictures in the human astral body. Under the guidance of >the Spirits of Form (Exusiai) the Angels form pictures. Unless we reach the >level of imaginative cognition we do not know that pictures are all the time >being formed in our astral body. They rise and pass away, burt without them >there would be no evolution into the future...The Spirits of Form are obliged >to unfold in pictures to begin with what they desire to achieve with us during >Earth evolution and beyond. And then later on, the pictures become reality in >a humanity transformed...If we are able to scrutinize these pictures, it >becomes evident that they are woven in accordance with quite definite impulses >and principles...it is clear that they have a very definite plan for the >future configuration of social life on earth...And indeed in forming these >pictures the Angels work on a definite principle, namely, that in the future >no human being is to find peace in the enjoyment of happiness if others are >unhappy. An impulse of brother and sisterhood in the absolute sense...is to be >the governing principle of the social conditions in physical existence. That >is the one principle in accordance with which the angels form the pictures in >our astral body. But there is a second impulse...that in future times every >human being shall see in each and everyone a hidden divinity. Hidden this thro-response. Shucks. Hugh Lovel Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 12:00:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11923 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:00:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07419; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:49:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06921 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:44:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max4-24.stc.net [208.210.132.152]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28942 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:47:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:46:04 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: agsyn.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 >FORWARD: Sent to "webmaster@envirolink.org" and myself today. Your >suggestion, please. -AB > > > >Allan, > >Well, you've really taken BDNOW to a new low by printing this letter >from Ferdy. I hope you're proud of your accomplishment. Ferdy may, or >may not, be hearing from our attorneys just yet but I will bring this >incident up with our attorneys this week to consider what action we >might appropriately take against your ISP, you personally and BDNOW for >printing such unfounded lies and slander. > >I warned you about this last week and you refused to stop it though I >asked you several times to do so. We will take every legal action >available to us to remedy the harm that has been done and to assure that >it does not happen in the future. > >Greg Willis > >******* > >Message-ID: <36DB498D.154B8C73@direct.ca> >Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 18:14:38 -0800 >From: Ferdinand Vondruska >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greg, You've got to develop thicker skin.This flying off the handle is pointless and counterproductive, isn't it? Hugh Lovel >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >WITHOUT PREJUDICE > > >Dear Geoff, > >I do not want to get involved in a law case here; although it would be >rather >difficult to make a case. Last year, however, I was threatened by Greg >Willis >because I sent him a picture of 'a ram's head' that I needed to make >Preparation #505. I thought that he, too, was an able, well versed and >informed Preparation maker. I sent the same picture to other BDNOW >addresses. > >Greg took my post as a personal attack and threatened me with the RCMP, >the >FBI and a monster law case. Things got so badly out of hand that I >stepped >back from any further contact with Greg Willis. > >However, a few months later, someone emailed me a letter with certain >attacks >on Greg Willis and I defended him since I felt that a lot of things that >were >said in this post could not be verified or were (likely) wrong. By >mistake I >emailed this letter, to Greg - whereupon Greg immediately came back, >argued my >defense (how shortsighted I was - that I did not know etc. etc.) yet, he >asked >me whether I would want to become his spiritual student etc. etc. He >also >included a few lessons of what I had to do in order to be accepted. > >I did not know what to do and sent him a nice reply; basically turning >down >his offer. I did not want to offend him. He followed up by telling me >that I, >under no circumstances, was ready for him and that I would have to work >on >myself for many more years. It became offensive yet again. > >Well, I really do not need to be a student to a man who threatened me >with all >kinds of stuff and who used foulest language against me. So, do I need >to say >more? > >Of course, we are on a continent on which free speech is protected (- >in the >US - I forget which XYZ Amendment), and that is beautiful. But I do not >need >to be 'amended' by any personal attack(s) - and that is that. > >There are other statements of Greg's that do not fit BD; I do not have >the >time to play detective. He is 'free' to say what he thinks and whoever >uses >his info will have to check it him/herself (as should be done with any >info >that comes across the Web and BDNOW) We all are exposed to a variety of >challenges (mental, physical, financial etc. etc.) and Greg has his, I >am >sure. > >I understand that there may be a person (or two) on this list that >communicate >with Greg Willis on a regular basis; and I hear that they are preparing >a case >against those who, apparently, attack him slanderously. I do not know of >any >slanderous attacks on Greg Willis. His attacks on me have been composted >and >are, now, well rotted. > >With kind regards: Ferdinand Vondruska > > >PS I am pretty sure I never sent that quote via BDNOW! Where did you get >it >from? Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:00:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13928 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:00:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11706; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:48:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11537 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:46:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0104.direct.ca ([204.244.83.4] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MF0P-0002Dc-00; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:48:54 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBF5BD.EC04576F@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:45:33 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org, "Hirschnitz, Michaela" Subject: Re: earthworm curiosity References: <01BE6A09.342459C0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Dear Martha, I am not an earthworm specialist; but worms are really attracted to areas where they can do a job, mate and proliferate. As long as the killing off is less than the result of their mating process, they will be there for a long time to come. When I look at the composting area and what punishment they have to take there, then, I am constantly surprised that they continue to stay and work. It reminds me of a time of this earth (as Steiner describes) when this earth was a fertile mass of swampy material. Of course, a tranquil, shadowy and moisty place would be the very best (and, mind you, I do find the fattest and somehow wisest worms in these grounds - kind of Grandfathers) But, the 'young folks' (so it appears) like to be where the action is: where we dump manure, where we pile it, where the animals drop their manure, where the soil is being moved, where there is a lot of putrification, also smell etc.. And so they shift around, constantly. But the true mating areas, I come to understand, are in sections of the composting ground where there is silence, tranquility, moisture and calm (but smelly) putrification. And then, there seems to be the graveyard, too. When summer approaches and the lot has to go deeper down, two feet or so in order to either dye or hybernate (or summernate). A drought is tough on worms. REgards Ferdinand PS my spell checker has gone on the blink (at least for this post) .....so, take it from here. Martha Wells wrote: > I have 2 little earthworm bins in my kitchen, just doing a great job on the > refuse we have to toss. I am curious, tho. I started with one bin, and they > happily mated and grew and I had to separate them after ... about 3 months > of 'work'. > I understand that earthworms key on vibrations, and people walking over > their pat of soil keeps them edgy. So, why, then, are mine so productive in > an obviously hi traffic area? I have a 17 yr old cat who warms the top bin > by sleeping on there 90% of the day, I'd think that would unnerve them too. > Are there any earthworm specialists onboard? > (martha) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:05:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14110 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:05:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12306; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:54:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12225 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:54:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0104.direct.ca ([204.244.83.4] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MF7w-0002do-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:56:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBF78F.A40C395F@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:53:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Health & teeth References: <001001be6da4$1875f3c0$8d9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 Banding, docking, de-horning & etheric etc. Friends, I dare changing the Subject title because it has gone far beyond what it has started out with. Hope you do n't mind. Michael Roboz wrote: > Dear John, Ferdy &bdnow, > > My father, Steven, worked in South America and West Africa in the 1950's. > As an mining engineer on exploration on foot, he worked with several native > groups. He found that most had never seen a toothbrush in their life but > had perfect teeth while eating their traditional diets. My father came to > the same conclusion, unscientifically. > I have also read years ago how not only the teeth are affected by > "processed" diet, but, there are other general health affects as well. One > of the more well-known one is diabetes. Very high in the Canadian native > populations. Directly linked to the white-man's diet. > Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces > > >Dear Rex, Ferdinand, and others, > > > >One of the most powerful books I have found which connects nutrition with > >dental health and/or dental degeneration is "NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL > >DEGENERATION" by Weston A. Price DDS, 512 pages. > > > > In the early 1930s Dr. Price and his wife traveled to every corner of the > >world to study the diets and health of 14 isolated native tribes in Africa, > >South America, Australia, Polynesia, as well as North American Indians and > >Eskimos. He compared the health of groups who only ate their historical > >native diet with people of the same tribe who ate diets of commerce -- > >white flour, white sugar, and processed foods. From the data, including > >hundreds of photographs, the Prices produced one of the most significant > >books on nutrition ever published. Its thesis, that the naturally chosen > >"primitive" diet promoted health and that the modern "civilized" diet, led > >to rapid degeneration of overall health and physical structure, was > >revolutionary for its time and far from generally accepted. The wealth of > >evidence and fascinating detail Dr. Price provides is as informative and > >valuable today as it was half a century ago. His investigations showed > >that it takes only one generation of eating a "Westernized" diet to produce > >severe dental caries, malformed jawbones, and misaligned teeth. Dr. Price > >practiced dentistry in Cleveland, Ohio. He died in 1948. The > >Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation of San Diego was established to > >disseminate his nutritional discoveries. > > > >> > >>You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are > >starting to lose their > >>connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is > >like an artist gone > >>bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative > >forces are 'painting' all > >>over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and > >that, funny enough are the > >>teeth and the skull). Here > > > >Impaired connection with the formative forces show up in the teeth because > >each tooth is energetically linked to all systems of the body via the > >meridian pathways. Dr. Price's research showed that people who ate food > >raised and prepared according to their native dietary traditions, almost > >never had tooth decay or misaligned teeth. Even more interesting, was the > >practice in these cultures of modifying the diet prior to conceiving > >children. The diet was enhanced for both men and women to help the couple > >have the forces that were needed to produce healthy children. > > > >thanks, John > > > > > >St. George Farm > >Freedom, Maine, USA > > > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:14:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14352 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:14:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA13142; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:03:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12897 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:01:33 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hAKEa16736 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:03:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1614df54.36ebf9f3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:03:31 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ADMIN: Routing Test Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 yyy From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:23:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14666 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:23:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14016; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:13:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13788 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:10:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MFOD-0004j7-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:13:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBFBF3.E746E04A@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:12:03 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: spraying by air, a licence & the forests in need References: <009401be6db7$3fa3e160$4b431ccb@bio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 Well, well! This gives me new ideas. My son is a pilot. So, there we may fly to get 501 (and perhaps 500) onto the forests. God, there is always something new out there. However, we would have to do it with a Cessna 180 from the nearby airport. Let me add this: spraying ANYTHING is strictly controlled here in Canada and you need a licence. So, before any of you take off with gallons of 500 (or 501) - my son says - get the permit. You may not only lose your pilot's licence but end in jail. And, transporting 'water' is a tricky business in any flying machine. Once the containers are half empty, you'll find them shifting. My pilot licence has expired so, my son will have to do it. Nevertheless, large areas, (likely much larger than anyting) are the forests in need of BD. Personally, I will return to the small acreage and look up when the droplets come down and meditate. My heart will pounce when I see my son swooping down with the good news (500 and/or 501). Regards Ferdinand Cheryl Kemp wrote: > Dear David, > Your parachute idea sounds interesting. Spraying 500 on by air is done > often in Australia and NZ on large areas. It is quite a set up getting the > water heated and 500 stirred in a large enough quantity for the plane to > fill up, but saves a lot of time and energy when covering 100s of hectares. > There is one valley in NZ where about three famers join together to share > the stirring, (by flowform) and one has the whole set up next to the > airstrip, and they share the cost of the plane and get all their properties > sprayed together. Their land is from mountain peaks to river flats, so > would be very difficult to cover by tractor. They also make their own fish > emulsion and spray that on as well. > Hamish Mackay, who is a BD member in Australia hmackay@ozemail.com.au > used to go around with the equipment to stir and would arrange flying on, so > if you wanted further information he could help you. > I like the idea of parachutes for 501, as one of the problems we have for > say grain crops is if they are not sown in rows leaving tractor tracks, then > it is hard to get the 501 out without damage to the crop. I will have to > get more experiments done with the towers to see if that can help here too. > We also need to look at ways to get sprays on when it is too wet to take the > tractors out as has been happening here lately. > David, how to you control the direction of the parachute? Is it like those > remote controlled boats and planes? Sounds like a great idea for Australia, > can you send me more info. Thanks, bio@midcoast.com.au > > Ferdinand thought that the droplets would be too fine or high to work, but > all I know is that putting 500 on by air works, and I think they use quite a > heavy spray to get the droplets to earth. > Great idea, > Cheryl Kemp > Education & Advisory Coordinator > Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. > of Australia Inc. > P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) > 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) > Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 > > ---Original Message----- > From: Intergalactic Garage > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Sunday, 14 March 1999 12:58 am > Subject: Re: spraying by air > > >It probably is a shortcoming of my own that there is no 'introductory > >statement' required for joining the BD Now! community. (Of course, a great > >many people prefer that!) In a case like David Griffith's, this shortcoming > >becomes glaring. > > > >For those of you who do not know, David is the founder/owner/manager of 7 > >Stars Farm in Kimberton (OK, you knew that much) David and his family make > >the absolute best yogurt (Seven Stars) that you can buy in a health food > >store. (The thick cream on the top of the original version is a dream to we > >Sally Fallon fans!! :-) 7 Stars also makes several wonderful varieties of > >cheeses, but these, as far as I know, are not distrubted commercially. > > > >David knows what he is doing with BD, the proof is in his 'pudding.' > > > >All this makes the question below all the more interesting! > > > >David, I have to ask: how much acreage do you prep yearly and how often do > >you spray a farm that is as well established as yours? > > > >-Allan Balliett > >moderator > >BD Now! > >igg@igg.com > > > > > > > >>I am looking into spraying preps by powered parachutes. These are slow > moving > >>(26 mph), relatively safe, high payload (800 -1000 lbs), and not too > >>expensive. The idea would be to use a boomless jet and an electric > diaphram > >>pump to deliver about 2 to 3 gal./acre from about 50 -60 ft above the > ground > >>(out of the way of lines and trees). Spaying times would be early morning > >>(501) and early evenings (500). Any comments or suggestions? David > Griffiths > >>Seven Stars Farm, Kimberton PA > > > > > > > > > >=========================================================================== > > > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, > >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food > >that promotes human development. > > > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > > > >listproc@envirolink.org > > > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > > > >subscribe bdnow > > > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > > > > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:26:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14758 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:26:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14276; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:15:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14090 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:13:30 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hCANa11723 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:15:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:15:18 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: OFF: re signs and constellations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 (NOTE: this transmission may have been incomplete, so we are sending it again.) Dear Friends, After a lecture in Helsinki, April 11, 1912, to the astonishment of the participants, Rudolf Steiner distributed a booklet entitled "In the Year 1879 Following the Birth of the Ego." One part of this booklet is well known to us as the weekly Calendar of the Soul. The other aspects of the 1912 calendar are virtually unknown to the English speaking world. What follows is drawn from the German, from various writings. In addition to the Soul Calendar the booklet consisted of a daily calendar with the year beginning at Easter, and reckoning time not from "AD 1" but 33 years later, the date of the crucifixion and resurrection. Steiner explained that our time reckoning should begin at that moment in the earth evolution, Easter 33, "when the ego was first born." This was to be a calendar, not for any particular sect or nation, but for all mankind. Other features of the calendar included: 1. A listing of births and deaths of significant historical personalities 2. The SUN's path traveling through the CONSTELLATIONS with accompanying totally new illustrations 3. The MOON's path, but this time in relation to the SIGNS, also with small illustrations, different to those of the sun constellations. Rudolf Steiner acknowledges both signs and constellations in his frequent mentions of the stars. To state, as many people today do, that the signs no longer have any validity seems to us not to be correct. Both have validity, but in different ways. Guenther Wachsmuth (a contemporary of Steiner and member of the original Board of the Goetheanum) has indicated that for the human being the signs have more to do with the physical/etheric and the constellations more with astral/ego., also that the signs have more to do with the earthly incarnation and the constellations with pre-birth and after-death. Happy New Year 1966! Finbarr & Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:42:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA15188 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:42:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16054; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:30:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15685 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:27:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MFeg-0005RN-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:30:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBFFF0.E7FCADD5@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:29:04 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces & THE HEALTH OF TEETH References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19990313151549.007b4300@midcoast.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 You know what is funny? Our children grew up with whatever natural food we could get. We baked our bread ourselves, kept to a close vegetarian (or if and when meat, the best) diet. Best milk. Brushing teeth. Eating morning and evening Weleda Calcium. Vegetables etc. etc. you name it. Steiner education. Rhythmical life. Yet, the teeth still took a beating (i.e. the deformation of the skull). So, personally, I am of the opinion, there is more than meets the eye. I really believe that if and when Westernized food is being introduced it is not the food but the thinking behind it. I met a nurse in New York some years ago who ate the most dreadful food you could think of and who had the shyniest teeth I had ever seen. What was the answer I asked her? Oh, cleaning my teeth regularly and being happy, thankful and joyful. I think her answer helped me a lot. Regards Ferdinand "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" wrote: > Dear Rex, Ferdinand, and others, > > One of the most powerful books I have found which connects nutrition with > dental health and/or dental degeneration is "NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL > DEGENERATION" by Weston A. Price DDS, 512 pages. > > In the early 1930s Dr. Price and his wife traveled to every corner of the > world to study the diets and health of 14 isolated native tribes in Africa, > South America, Australia, Polynesia, as well as North American Indians and > Eskimos. He compared the health of groups who only ate their historical > native diet with people of the same tribe who ate diets of commerce -- > white flour, white sugar, and processed foods. From the data, including > hundreds of photographs, the Prices produced one of the most significant > books on nutrition ever published. Its thesis, that the naturally chosen > "primitive" diet promoted health and that the modern "civilized" diet, led > to rapid degeneration of overall health and physical structure, was > revolutionary for its time and far from generally accepted. The wealth of > evidence and fascinating detail Dr. Price provides is as informative and > valuable today as it was half a century ago. His investigations showed > that it takes only one generation of eating a "Westernized" diet to produce > severe dental caries, malformed jawbones, and misaligned teeth. Dr. Price > practiced dentistry in Cleveland, Ohio. He died in 1948. The > Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation of San Diego was established to > disseminate his nutritional discoveries. > > > > >You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are > starting to lose their > >connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is > like an artist gone > >bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative > forces are 'painting' all > >over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and > that, funny enough are the > >teeth and the skull). Here > > Impaired connection with the formative forces show up in the teeth because > each tooth is energetically linked to all systems of the body via the > meridian pathways. Dr. Price's research showed that people who ate food > raised and prepared according to their native dietary traditions, almost > never had tooth decay or misaligned teeth. Even more interesting, was the > practice in these cultures of modifying the diet prior to conceiving > children. The diet was enhanced for both men and women to help the couple > have the forces that were needed to produce healthy children. > > thanks, John > > St. George Farm > Freedom, Maine, USA -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 14:35:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16670 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:35:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20521; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:24:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20315 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:22:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-87.s24.as1.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.87]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id OAA24672 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:25:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36EC0C8A.7B527FDB@erols.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:22:51 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces & THE HEALTH OF TEETH References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19990313151549.007b4300@midcoast.com> <36EBFFF0.E7FCADD5@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > So, personally, I am of the opinion, there is more than meets the eye. This, sir, is *always* the case. > I really believe that if and when Westernized food is being introduced it is not the food but > the thinking behind it. Maybe so, but those who read Price's classic draw a simpler conclusion. The most compelling of the hundreds of full-mouth photos in his book are of brothers, sisters, even twins, one of who got traditional food and one of who got manufactured food. I say 'compelling' with full emphasis: so much so that I bought a case of the books for family, friends, and for resale. It's a powerful, almost overwhelming, indictment of junky food. The dental devastation Price lays at the feet of Westernized (think manufactured) food is incredible. > > I met a nurse in New York some years ago who ate the most dreadful food you could think of > and who had the shyniest teeth I had ever seen. What was the answer I asked her? Oh, cleaning > my teeth regularly and being happy, thankful and joyful. Good point, Ferdy---I may share it with my 96 year old uncle (if he sobers up and I can tolerate walking into the chain-smoker's section of McDonalds, where he seems to have lived for the past 35 years). Of course if a skirt goes by, he'll jump up and forget me. :) :) :) Regards, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 14:37:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16726 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20623; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:25:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20477 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:24:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.80]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990314192722.PWZ682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:27:22 +1300 Message-ID: <36EC0DD1.20BD@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:28:17 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Basalt rock dust Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Cheryl Where can this rock dust testing be done in either Australia or NZ. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 14:38:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16787 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:38:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20775; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:27:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20491 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:24:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.80]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990314192732.PYF682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:27:32 +1300 Message-ID: <36EC0DDC.78F3@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:28:28 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: etheric forces and teeth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 Ferdinand Interestingly I have read RS talk of teeth as a balanced interplay of Magnesium and Flouride. Have you noted the big and strong teeth of the people born in the US mid west, where the magnesium is 22% of the soil. No doubt calcuim has a role but magnesium could well be the missing key here and certainly one dentistry has not got a hold of yet. Also it emphasises the role of magnesium as a carrier of the etheric possibly into more Astral spheres than calcium can go????? just a thought. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 14:39:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16815 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:39:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20879; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:28:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20538 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:25:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.80]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990314192802.QAN682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:28:02 +1300 Message-ID: <36EC0DFA.6701@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:28:58 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: signs and constellations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 > Rudolf Steiner acknowledges both signs and constellations in his frequent > mentions of the stars. To state, as many people today do, that the signs no > longer have any validity seems to us not to be correct. Both have validity, > but in different ways. Guenther Wachsmuth (a contemporary of Steiner and > member of the original Board of the Goetheanum) has indicated that for the > human being the signs have more to do with the physical/etheric and the > constellations more with astral/ego., also that the signs have more to do with > the earthly incarnation and the constellations with pre-birth and after-death. > Thank you for this. I agree, this illustrates my point exactly. Those who deny the reality of the signs have not looked, seen and experienced. (around here at least) it is obvious these statements come from intellect (and fanaticism) not their experience. And so be it , as long as we see their statements for what they are. Incorrect. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 15:39:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA18315 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:39:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27187; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:28:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26995 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max7-11.stc.net [208.210.134.11]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21846 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:29:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36DC2B91.4F09@xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:28:22 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 >Hugh > >Thank you for your reply on organic chemistry. > >I appreciate CHO, sugars and fats etc are all products of living >organisms. From your reply (and other thoughts), is it correct to >conclude that all living organisms make use of and need nitrogen to >exist? Naturally if it is not in the soil then it is easily extracted >from the atmosphere. Even fungi and mosses in N depleted soils could get >what they need from the air etc. So anyway is this an appropriate >conclusion. > >Cheers > >Glen A. Glen, et. al., All living organisms need nitrogen to form amino acids and proteins. I believe there are algae as well as the whole Nitrobacteracea family that can fix nitrogen from the air or from air dissolved in water. As well nitrogen compounds develop in thunderstorms and snowstorms so there tends to be an adequate nitrogen cycle if everything is working well enough. Best, Hugh Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 15:40:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA18343 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:40:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27402; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:29:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27053 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max7-11.stc.net [208.210.134.11]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21908 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:29:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <36E226BB.7CC98AD4@direct.ca> <92DB4A1207AF90D78525672C006467DD.0064D9CC8525672C@webcity> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:48:38 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: agsyn.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 > >So Hugh, I'm lost here. Being well tutored in the Moore-York school of >'Biodynamics as Wholistic Resource Management,' I've never had much problem >with the idea that the mind is contained within the brain, but that concept >has been pretty foreign to this much of the conversation on this list in >the past. For example, it seems to be a tenet that the stirrer puts much of >themself into the prep, that what they are thinking, saying, humming or >singing becomes part of what is applied. > >Given this and given our recent and frequent experiences with Topolos >Vinyard, how do you account for this apparent contradiction? > >Incidentally, given an opportunity to 'bar' Greg from the BD Now!, the >community here was 'listless,' to say the least. Greg is still welcomed to >join BD Now! as far as I'm concerned. > >Sincerely, > >-Allan >igg@igg.com > >PS "Bad Manners"? Did you miss a few posts or something? Allan, No doubt I've missed some posts, since I haven't any idea what you are referring to with "recent and frequent experiences with Topolos Vinyard." I am surprised by the thought that the mind would be contained within the brain. I know my own mind frequently ranges quite outside my brain, most notably while I'm asleep or meditating, though absentmindedness is another well-known phenomenon. Are there folks on this list who actually think the brain contains the mind and that astral traveling and other types of out of body experiences do not occur? Well, given the diversity of folks on this list I suppose it is inevitable that we have a few with this viewpoint. Even so when we put our thoughts and vibrations into stirring preps it is not a big leap of faith to think the preps will carry these thoughts out into the field. I'd imagine that both one's hopes and fears are communicated. What are we discussing here? Greg Willis' extremely rude posts to Steve Moore a couple months back or what? Does Greg communicate this to the vineyards he works with? Not that I've seen. I'd say that if he doesn't maintain a harmonious relationship with his clients that he loses them. I have ego problems myself, as I'd imagine you've noticed. I can be an insufferable fool at times. As a result I try to remember in my wiser moments to forgive others their failings and give them credit where it is due. Greg has his finer points, of course. Are we discussing Greg's going off in an independent direction from the BDA and Demeter? That's a whole nuther ball of wax. The most time honored of growth processes is growth by schism. Seems to me we need a bit of that in biodynamics. I don't see what the complaint would be there. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 18:36:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA23826 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:36:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA15432; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15193 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:20:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.12]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:24:35 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:23:36 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: No till versus Double Digging Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 Hello Bd-Now friends, There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the seeds.) I'm wondering about you bd farmers, where you stand with this and what are some of your practices when you have new land to get ready for planting? The no till folks say that disturbing the soil wipes out the beneficent organisms. Others say, that Jeavons method, merely moves the top layer over, digging down to allow for deep root growth, then adding the top layer back on top. I understand that Jeavons studied both the french intensive method of gardening/farming and also studied with Rudolf Steiner in the 20's before bringing these methods to California, but was wondering, now that we've had so much more time for industry (ag included) to screw with the soil, what approach do you all take? Thanks for any insights into this mystery! Best Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 18:46:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24074 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16891; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:34:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16539 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:32:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.23]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:35:55 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:34:56 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: COTS: March 13, 1999 - March 19, 1999 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 <> Dear Kate, Quite frankly, I didn't know this calendar of the soul had more than verses to it, until Christine wrote in about the other features of the calendar. (Is that what the Stella Natura is based upon originally?) I am on a mailing list which I discovered at the elib website, which has put up many Steiner translations on the web (address available at the bottom of the calendar of the soul postings. I signed up for the weekly calendar verse which arrives in my email box with an inspiring verse for me to read each Sunday morning. (http://www.elib.com/) Best luck, Jane PS: I am a farmer wannabe; soon I hope to have a real garden, not just one in cyberspace or up in the air, so to speak! For now, I get most of my flora fixes at the lovely Shakespear garden in Central Park, NYC, not exactly a wild haven! And I still haven't managed to find any nettles in this city. Maybe I should try the Bronx. But I will pass on your haven info to my California friends! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 18:46:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24080 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:46:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16842; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:34:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16407 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:31:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0210.direct.ca ([204.244.83.26] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MKNz-0000jM-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:33:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC46FC.3DB85396@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:32:12 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: ADMIN: Routing Test References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 What is this, Allan? No message. Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:01:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA26072 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:01:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA24391; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:49:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24311 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:48:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-192.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.192]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA29409 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:50:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36EC58F9.3C6D@ipa.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:48:57 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 Jane Sherry wrote: > Hello Bd-Now friends, > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > seeds.) In permaculture, you'd find preference for the no-till method. In biointensive,you'd find preference for double-dig. In Fukuoka-style natural farming, you'd find preference for no-till. In Kyusei Nature Farming, you'd find preference for a mechanical spader. In market gardening, who has time to double-dig, or rely on comparatively more risky no-till. In truck farming, you'd find preference for mechanical tillage. In backyard gardening, you can do whatever you want. In biodynamics, you have a framework to interweave biological and dynamic practices to create a living dynamic force in the garden or farm so there is flexibility and adaptability to the whatever digging method works best for your particular situation, though incorporation of compost would be seen as a good soil management practice. "Nature bends and shapes the inputs of man and crafts her own" If we had the Sutras of Organic Agriculture laid out before us, the sutras that do not yet exist in print but do exist in the collective brains banks of millions of farmers worldwide, the sutras crafted from thousands of years indigenous knowledge-tribal agriculture mixed with modern ecological agriculture insights from clairovoyants like Steiner and humus farmers like Ehrenfried Pfeiffer, we could refer to a simple parable-paragraph and understand all that is necessary. Like Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language" or Pantajali's "Yoga Sutra's", you can spin a long story to support an individual sutra. In the examples above, it helps to understand the framework you are working with. The "scale" of production makes a huge impact on how you approach the no-till and double-dig picture. Double digging is *very* labor intensive. While you are still digging and digging and digging and digging to establish the market garden, the season is passing by and you are still digging instead of planting and weeding and harvesting and playing. The largest double-dug market garden I've seen in California is a one-acre farm owned by white guy recognized for his organic produce. However, the actual physical digging was done by a full-time Mexican laborer. Alex MacGregor in Tennesse has a 6-acre biointensive market garden, I'm think. I am very interested to visit this farm and get a good picture how the actual labor and mechanics are worked out. On the other hand, no-till veggie production is still largely dependent on at least a minimum of herbides at the commercial scale. At the home gardening scale, it is no problem. You see, the paragraphs are spinning off and I've barely touched on this subject. Thus, a sutra is all you need, but the explanation goes on and on. Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:21:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA26671 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:21:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA26310; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26132 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:08:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max15-22.stc.net [208.210.138.22]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA25950 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:11:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990303202934.9611.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:42:15 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipe Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id UAA26134 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 >Dear List, > >A Cosmic Pipe when made properly and calibrated to astronomical data has >the influence to mediate desired properties of a farm organism on both >the atmosheric and soil level. This device, I feel, funtions on the >same level as what I have read concerning the "Round Towers" of Ireland >and the "Stone Circles" of Brittany. > >Hugh Lovel is correct when he speaks of "farming the atmoshere", but a >learning curve is in store for anyone choosing this path. The first >plateu(and possibly stumbling block) on the learning curve was in >learning to think of the farm as having borders. While I was able to >make some headway in thinking of it as an organizm, it was difficult >indeed to link borders with organizms; that are able to draw the >nourishment it requires from its' surrounding. > >As each organism must fight for its' own survival, it must build its' >resistance to perceived threats of pestalence, drought and flood. >In that context, even though it is not an approved by the BDA so I have >heard, I consider the cosmic pipe to be of primary importance in >broadcasting of biodynamic preparations for the purpose of healing the >farm organizm. > >However, it must be realized by anyone who would endevor to take on >such a task, that is of building and maintaining a pipe, that it takes >constant vigilence of coordinating regents with lunar & cosmic >influences. This in itself, cannot and should not be taken lightly. > > >Michael. > Michael and List, Here's a little further information from my assembly instructions for Cosmic Pipes. There's some things to know about prayerful intent. Assembly instructions for The Cosmic Pipe In ordering your cosmic pipe kit you should have sent us a copy of your property map or an aerial photo with the boundaries of the area you want to treat marked off. We keep a copy of this map or photo on file and use it to dowse a potential location for the pipe as well as the potencies for all the reagents used in either well at that location. These reagents are included in your starter kit in the pipe's wells along with copies of the map or photo sealed in a ziploc bag to protect from moisture. Without these reagents and the map or photo showing the boundaries in the pipe's wells the pipe does very little and is analogous to a radio station that is off the air. It is advised that a new pipe owner formulate an intent (or prayer) and write it on the back of the copy of the map or photo for each well. Think of the pipe as a channel of life force or vitality between and for your soil and atmosphere. When you are low in vitality it is difficult to carry forward your intentions, but when your vitality is high you put forth your intentions very effectively. The pipe is much the same since life force responds to intentions. Thus your intent in the well will have the effect of a prayer or thought form that the life force responds to. Here is more or less a model for formulating a written intent. "If it be Thy will,. . .' (in harmony with the Creator's will) "let the powers of nature converge. . ." (all of them) "to bring in beneficial energies and to transform detrimental energies into beneficial ones within the boundaries marked, . . ." (in other words let the pipe be a channel of beneficial energy and keep toxic or harmful things, such as the caulk, glue and pvc as well as other detrimental environmental forces, out of the broadcast and transform their influences to good) "yielding a healthy environment with abundant and nutritious production for the benefit of all and detriment of none, . . ." (or whatever other specific things you wish such as a loving enviroment, harmonious working conditions, etc.) "for now and in the future for as long as is appropriate." (this sets the temporal parameters) Amen (or whatever other closing you wish). All together the above reads: "If it be Thy will let the powers of nature converge to bring in beneficial energies and to transform detrimental energies into beneficial ones within the boundaries marked, yielding a healthy environment with abundant and nutritious production for the benefit of all and detriment of none, for now and in the future for as long as is appropriate. Amen." This intent, or whatever version of it you please, should be written on the back of the map or photo and folded up inside the ziploc bag of reagents and placed in the well for both wells. Just in case there is any confusion about which reagents go in which well, the BD 501, BD 508, Honey and SF (Spring to Fall) Horn Clay (if this reagent is included for your property) go in the top well. The BD 500, BC (barrel compost), milk and FS (Fall to Spring) Horn Clay go in the bottom well. Occasionally some additional reagent may be used, such as homeopathic lime, silica or other minerals. These will be special cases and special instructions will be included. There is one thing left out of your kit for economy in shipping, because it makes the package too bulky and isn't worth the price of shipping. This is a 5 foot length of schedule 40 PVC pipe, either 2 inch or 3 inch diameter according to whether you purchased a garden model or a field model. This should be available at a reasonable price from virtually any local hardware or builders' supply. We concentrate on sending you in your kit all the things you cannot otherwise find of reliable quality and easy availability. Once you have that, a post hole diggers, some PVC cleaner and PVC glue, and competent help (such as a dowser) if you need it determine the optimum exact location, you are ready to assemble your Cosmic Pipe and put it into operation. Assembly is simply a matter of testing the wells in case of damage in shipping, connecting the internal wires (supplied in the kit) and gluing the joints of PVC pipe together in the sequence indicated. They will be marked on the inside with a letter and an arrow pointing downward from A to C to D. B will be the 5 foot length you buy at the hardware store along with your cleaner and glue. Find a flat, clean surface, such as a driveway and lay out the pieces, connect the sections with wire nuts as provided, and glue each section together. First apply cleaner to the areas to be joined, then glue, then join the pieces with a slight twist to seal the joint. With the joint that connects the top and bottom wells try to see that both wells are joined in alignment pointing the same direction. Assembly on a flat surface helps. Included in your kit is an 8 Range Multitester. This has many uses but most importantly it can measure continuity, resistance (otherwise known as ohms, the first click to the left labeled RX 1K‡), amperage, as well as both direct current voltages and alternating current voltages. As far as using it to check the operation of your Cosmic Pipe all you will need to use is the RX 1K‡ position. Your test meter should come with a AA battery already installed and be ready for use. Unwrap the leads and plut the red jack into the right hand socket, the black into the left. Touching the probe with the dial turned to the RX 1K‡ position should show 0K ohms resistance, give or take a hair. Zero your meter using the red wheel on the left hand side. Check each well by simultaneously touching the red probe to the red post and the black to the black post. This should read close to half an ohm (on the far right between 1 and 0 ohms). This shows the germanium diode in that circuit is working. Swap leads so that red touches black and black red and the dial should read approximately 100K ohms though this may vary as much as 40 or so ohms and still be within serviceable range. This shows the 100K resistor is functioning properly. From time to time after the pipe is installed you may want to check these circuits again, as it is unlikely but conceivable that lightning could hit your pipe and burn out its components. In any event you should know whether your pipe is working or not. At this point you are ready to install your Cosmic Pipe. If possible you should check for an optimum location to put the pipe. You may use your intuition or perhaps dowse for it yourself or find a dowser that you can explain how the Cosmic Pipe works to and have him dowse for the location. It should not be under power lines, especially high voltage ones. It should not be under thick trees or up against houses, walls or steep banks. It should not be planted in locations where water stands, and, of course, it cannot be placed in roads or other places where it is an obstruction. If placed in a location where cattle or other large livestock can rub against it a fence must be put around it to keep them from breaking it. Once a suitable location is found, dig a two foot deep hole with post hole diggers and place the pipe in the hole with the wells pointing east. In ordinary clay-loam soil it should be buried up to about the middle of the collar on the pipe. Perhaps in heavy clay it might be buried about an inch higher, while in very sandy soil it should go a couple inches below the collar. It is possible to fine tune the depth by (with the wells empty) getting back 35 feet or so and walking forward dowsing for the range of effectiveness of the pipe. Then with a little deeper or shallower hole the range can be marked off until the optimum depth is found. Then the soil should be packed firmly around the pipe and the reagent packages (which are labeled for each well) should be placed in their respective wells. Then dowsing should reveal the range of effective to be far, far wider--presumably covering the entire area within the boundaries of the photos in the wells. At this point the pipe is assembled and installed. Periodically one may check the wells with the ohm meter. A couple words of caution. (1) Your reagent package is a finely tuned set. Adding or subtracting reagents should be done with care. For example, if soil tests indicate lime should be added, don't just get a vial of lime and put it in the well. Tests have shown that one or another homeopathic dilution will be harmonious, certain others antipathetic. Without care and understanding you could easily have some unusual and perhaps undesirable experiences. If you got your Cosmic Pipe from us, your photo is on file here and we can make you reagents tuned to your needs for $10 apiece. So should you need lime of one kind or another, azomite, greensand, soft rock phosphate, or a weed or insect pepper, send us a sample of whatever it is. (2) By use of the Cosmic Pipe you will gradually change the conditions in your environment. At some point it will be appropriate to change the potencies of the reagents in your wells. If you think you need a new reagent package give us a call and we can check your map or photo in our files and send you a new reagent set. There is a substantial discount for complete reagent sets. By periodically testing your pipe to see if it's components continue to function and your reagents are appropriate your Cosmic Pipe should continue to work as it was designed to. Feel free to contact us at: Union Agricultural Institute 8475 Dockery Road Blairsville, Georgia 30512 706 745-6056 uai@stc.net Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:22:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA26689 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA26366; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26145 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:09:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max15-22.stc.net [208.210.138.22]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA25995 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:11:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19990303202934.9611.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:46:06 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipe Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 >>I wonder if this sense is where man broke with the past? Why we are >>blinded to the ethers that are constantly flowing. How did this occur? >>Was man able once to see these? Is it the ridicule and objectiveness of >>politeness that creates the dillusion of total materialism? > >A Great Question, Well Phrased, Michael! Thank You, -Allan igg@igg.com Michael, I'm sure we ARE blinded to the ethers that are constantly flowing. Most people are blinded, that is. We can regain that ability, and I believe with biofeedback training most folks could be trained to clear perception of these things once again. Hugh Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:36:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA27028 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:36:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA28144; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:25:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27942 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:23:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.13]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:27:21 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:26:21 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 <> Hmmm Steve, I quite liked your answer, but somehow missed your 'personal' sutra in there! Just which method do you use? Thanks, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:43:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA27188 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:43:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA28868; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:31:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28809 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:30:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max15-22.stc.net [208.210.138.22]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA28993 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:33:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:55 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 >Hello Bd-Now friends, >There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's >style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of >late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should >rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone >and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, >manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly >soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the >seeds.) > >I'm wondering about you bd farmers, where you stand with this and what are >some of your practices when you have new land to get ready for planting? >The no till folks say that disturbing the soil wipes out the beneficent >organisms. Others say, that Jeavons method, merely moves the top layer >over, digging down to allow for deep root growth, then adding the top layer >back on top. > >I understand that Jeavons studied both the french intensive method of >gardening/farming and also studied with Rudolf Steiner in the 20's before >bringing these methods to California, but was wondering, now that we've had >so much more time for industry (ag included) to screw with the soil, what >approach do you all take? > >Thanks for any insights into this mystery! > >Best Regards, >Jane Sherry Jane, Any more I have such loamy soil riddled with earthworms that I can get away with a lot of Ruth Stout stuff. And I can see why, from the viewpoint of labor, she would advocate it. But don't get the idea she was doing it on new land. If you're starting with the sort of gummy clay I did my first double dug beds in The Chadwick/Jeavons method is much needed. A lot of BD vegetable growers seem to be going to spading machines, because Jeavons' method is okay for third world gardeners, but with a several acre market garden it's too much. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 21:34:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28734 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:33:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03963; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:22:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03895 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:22:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp57.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.157]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA06999 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:22:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001c01be6e8a$83679b20$9d4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Fw: agsyn.com Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:21:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 Hugh wrote: >Does Greg communicate this to the vineyards he works with? Not that I've seen. I'd say that if he doesn't maintain a harmonious relationship with his clients that he loses them. I have ego problems myself, as I'd imagine you've noticed. I can be an insufferable fool at times. As a result I try to remember in my wiser moments to forgive others their failings and give them credit where it is due. Greg has his finer points, of course. >Are we discussing Greg's going off in an independent direction from the BDA >and Demeter? That's a whole nuther ball of wax. The most time honored of >growth processes is growth by schism. Seems to me we need a bit of that in >biodynamics. I don't see what the complaint would be there. > Hi Hugh, I hesitate to question authority, but since that is YOUR motto, thought you wouldn't mind! :-) This is something that came to me from discussions some months back...that it is extremely important to have the right attitude when stirring, applying preps, working with the land. Perhaps being so novice, I've misunderstood in some way. It seems especially true, in life, that our emotional state permeates our environment & colors our experience. If the lens through which we see is colored by love, the world responds lovingly (or maybe life just returns through that lens & is transformed!). And so it is with anger & hate. You speak of "intent", and for me, intent is certainly influenced by the lens of the moment. I know there are certain tasks that I must commence with some semblance of balance. (for example, if I try to milk a cow when I'm angry, I will, without fail, get kicked) >From my personal symbology...water is emotion (whether that's right or wrong...when the basement floods, or the well pump breaks - I look at my emotions for an answer & QUICK adjustment! :-). Water, carrier of the preparations to the land, would seem to the ideal conduit for one's emotions. And as you pointed out at your recent seminar (btw, I loved this part...) that defying the laws of physics, the vibrations(?) flow from lesser concentration to higher concentration. So would not the application of preps even magnify one's emotional state? How can Greg keep from communicating this to the vineyards? I have to say I never had a big problem with Greg. In fact I did admire his thinking and his knowledge regarding a number of BD principles. But knowing that lens through which he sees things, and the resulting energy that returns to him through that lens, would be enough to keep me from ingesting Topolos wines...or any product I know has this energy incorporated into it! For me specifically, this stems from some of Greg's views on the feminine and I have to tell you that as a woman, I'd be crazy to knowingly bring that energy into my being. So, am I missing something important here? I mean, should I not try to develop a healthy mental state (love, being the emotion of choice) and approach these practices in as centered a way as possible? Otherwise, am I doing nothing good at all -- or worse, do I contaminate my environment & its product? Thanks, Julie PS..I don't think that it was Greg's questioning of the BDA & Demeter, their financial records, motives, etc. that upset people...it was his overly aggressive assault tactics. I suspect he did accomplish some re-evaluation on the part of BDA & Demeter, I don't know for sure, but in the process, he gave up all of his own power by being a hostile fanatic about it. PPS...Greg, if you're getting a copy of this, please don't bother writing me, threatening to sue, whatever...I am broke. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:25:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00519 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:25:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA09653; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:13:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09154 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-85.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.85]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA13558 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:12:47 +1100 Message-ID: <009c01be6e91$9a178ae0$55431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: Basalt rock dust Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:16:54 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 Glen, There is a guy who works for Booral Australia, Tony Zrilic, a geologist, who has one of Philip Callaghan's machines. It looks just like a Radionics box, and he puts the dust in a bag in one side and the meter shows the pm qualities. (just like amps) If you wanted to send him some dust to test, contact him on +61 2 948338 (home) Have you checked with that old guy from Rotorua, Keith ? who has spent his life doing rock dust studies. Ian Buckingham may know of him. He may have a machine now. Cheryl. -----Original Message----- From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, 15 March 1999 6:30 am Subject: Basalt rock dust >Cheryl >Where can this rock dust testing be done in either Australia or NZ. > >Glen A. > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:25:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00536 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA09706; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:13:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09157 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-85.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.85]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA13552 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:12:42 +1100 Message-ID: <009a01be6e91$9779ae80$55431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Off: Fw: CONSENSUS CONF ON GENE TECHNOLOGY (Australia) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:45:05 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 I just thought all you BD Nowers would be interested to see what we have been doing in Australia re GE Technology. We are at the stage where patents have been applied for by Monsanto to bring in 6 GE species for Soybean, Canola etc. At present the only GE crop being grown commercially is the Bt Cotton ( and this is not doing too well). Our CSIRO (Govt. Science organisation) has bought rights to do further research and trials of GE products, and this is also being queried by consumers. So this Concensus Conference was set up last week, where citizens have the right to question the experts and to come up with recommendations to the Govt. A recent Australia New Zealand Food Authority (ANZFA) decision was made to label all obvious GE food, but not eg oil from GE seeds! So we are still battling to keep our food at least labelled and at best really controlled and consumers protected. If anyone is interested in the whole 11 page report of the Conference, just contact me on bio@midcoast.com.au and I will email it on. Thanks, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Organic Federation of Australia Inc To: ofa@netspace.net.au Date: Sunday, 14 March 1999 10:06 pm Subject: CONSENSUS CONF ON GENE TECHNOLOGY > >NEWS MEDIA RELEASE >13/3/98 > >Australia's First Consensus Conference Canberra 9th to 11th March 99. > >The final report of the citizen panel into gene technology was a "cry" for >democracy calling on the Australian Government to provide a process of >decision making that is balanced and transparent. They expressed grave >concerns about the ability of GMAC and ANZFA to make unbiased decisions. >This report has the full support of the Organic Federation of Australia. > >The citizen panel went on to recommend that full labeling of genetically >engineered food be implemented including items regarded as being >"substantially equivalent". > >In addition it was recommended that no new genetically modified crops be >approved until a new Gene Technology Office is established with equal and >balanced representation of industry, government, consumer and environment >groups and citizens such as those involved in this consensus conference. > >"Such an office with terms of reference and representation agreed upon by >all parties, is the only way to ensure that the best, most responsible >decisions will be made," Organic Federation of Australia Chair Mr Scott >Kinnear said today. > >"The risks associated with releasing genes into the environment that cross >species boundaries, with little known consequences, must be assessed >rigorously and impartially and that is what the citizens panel has called for." > >"The organic industry, estimated to be worth one billion dollars per year to >Australia within ten years time, is extremely concerned about the impact on >the environment including pollen drift contamination of organic crops from >genetically engineered crops. Once these genes are released they cannot be >recalled." > >"In addition we are particularly pleased with the recommendation to >investigate fully, alternatives to gene technology such as organic >production systems and their further recommendation that much more research >and development is required in these areas." > >"The decisions reached by the citizen panel are fundamental reflecting the >real issues of marginalisation of consumer interests and lack of unbiased >process and decision making. The consensus conference highlighted the >diverse interests present and the ability of our citizens to weigh up and >address the important issues. We call on the Australian Government to head >the voice of the people in fully implementing these recommendations >immediately," Mr Kinnear concluded. >Scott Kinnear > >Chairperson >Organic Federation of Australia >C/- 452 Lygon St >East Brunswick >Victoria 3057 >Australia > >Ph 61 3 9386 6600 >Fax 61 3 9384 1322 > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:28:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00641 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA10122; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09725 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:13:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max13-42.stc.net [208.210.137.42]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA14105 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:15:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36EC58F9.3C6D@ipa.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:54:33 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 Jane Sherry wrote: > Hello Bd-Now friends, > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > seeds.) In permaculture, you'd find preference for the no-till method. In biointensive,you'd find preference for double-dig. In Fukuoka-style natural farming, you'd find preference for no-till. In Kyusei Nature Farming, you'd find preference for a mechanical spader. In market gardening, who has time to double-dig, or rely on comparatively more risky no-till. In truck farming, you'd find preference for mechanical tillage. In backyard gardening, you can do whatever you want. In biodynamics, you have a framework to interweave biological and dynamic practices to create a living dynamic force in the garden or farm so there is flexibility and adaptability to the whatever digging method works best for your particular situation, though incorporation of compost would be seen as a good soil management practice. "Nature bends and shapes the inputs of man and crafts her own" Jane, Steve, et. al., I did a garden in Atlanta that started off as a parking lot and I did well to single dig it. With BD compost and a cosmic pipe applying preps I dug it this past February with a pitchfork in almost nothing flat. Rich, crumbly soil. Still plenty of room for improvement, but a miracle of crumblyness and nice structure nonetheless. So in 3 years it's ready for the Ruth Stout treatment. But it was hopeless before that. It's no market garden technique, though. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:42:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01040 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:42:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA12425; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12168 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:30:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MO7K-0002E0-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:32:38 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC7F03.D241FA31@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:31:16 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces & THE HEALTH OF TEETH References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19990313151549.007b4300@midcoast.com> <36EBFFF0.E7FCADD5@direct.ca> <36EC0C8A.7B527FDB@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 Dear Rex, I know, things are never as simple as one may want to believe. YOu are right. There is so much more behind a rotten set of teeth. However, if the spirit fails, the teeth (most of the time) fail, too. The WEsternized food was introduced in Africa and other places in a most cunning way and rolled over a continent ill prepared for it. Again, I agree, white flour, white sugar, etc. etc. makes the mouth too acid. My neighbour who is a ND told me that we have four sets of digestive systems in our body: mouth (alcaline), stomach (acid), small intestine (alcaline) and colon (acid). So, if you screw up the mouth and make it acide, the whole chain may fail. And denaturalized food certainly does so. Hope this may set my story into a bit of a better light. And, let your uncle run after those little skirt - who know for how long. Regards Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > So, personally, I am of the opinion, there is more than meets the eye. > > This, sir, is *always* the case. > > > I really believe that if and when Westernized food is being introduced it is not the food but > > the thinking behind it. > > Maybe so, but those who read Price's classic draw a simpler conclusion. The most compelling of > the hundreds of full-mouth photos in his book are of brothers, sisters, even twins, one of who > got traditional food and one of who got manufactured food. I say 'compelling' with full > emphasis: so much so that I bought a case of the books for family, friends, and for resale. > It's a powerful, almost overwhelming, indictment of junky food. The dental devastation Price > lays at the feet of Westernized (think manufactured) food is incredible. > > > > > I met a nurse in New York some years ago who ate the most dreadful food you could think of > > and who had the shyniest teeth I had ever seen. What was the answer I asked her? Oh, cleaning > > my teeth regularly and being happy, thankful and joyful. > > Good point, Ferdy---I may share it with my 96 year old uncle (if he sobers up and I can > tolerate walking into the chain-smoker's section of McDonalds, where he seems to have lived for > the past 35 years). Of course if a skirt goes by, he'll jump up and forget me. :) :) :) > > Regards, > Rex Harrill -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:54:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01369 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:54:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA14539; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:43:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13994 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:40:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MOHI-000658-00; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:42:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC816E.159B91E2@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:41:34 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics CC: "Hirschnitz, Michaela" Subject: The sun as a Being calling forth the earth's warmth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 Ferdy, Ever notice how when you cover up a patch in winter it stays green underneath, but do that in summer and it's dead in a weeK? That's holding the sun into the earth. I can't say for sure, but the earth does seem to give off heat and light when the sun strikes it. It does come from the surface upwards. Hope these observations help. Hugh Many thans, my friend. The snow drops, daffodils and other early spring flowers confirm that the earth is sending out its best (a transformed light) to greet the fresh sunlight. Transformed sunlight streaming from below and meeting the new light coming in from the sun. Many thanks,Hugh - from Ferdinand >-- -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 23:12:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01861 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:12:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17421; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17330 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MObP-0004ed-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:03:44 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC864F.D811C26A@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:02:23 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces and teeth References: <36EC0DDC.78F3@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 Excellent, and many thanks to you, Glen. It is indeed interesting what the etheric is able and willing (permit me this statement) to work with. My thinking has to change SOOO much that I am (at times) falling totally out of bed with Science. You see, when STeiner says in one of his lectures (I think in the Agri Course) that we do not eat food in order to feed ourselves with all kinds of stuff (with the exception of sugar), but that we eat in order to 'attract' the forces that will work with our body....., well, then you see how much we have to change in our approach to a new understanding of our diets and dieting. So, Calcium is not 'eaten' in order to grow better teeth. Never. We ought to take in homeopatized Calcium in order to teach the (our) body to deal with Calcium properly. Same may have to be done with other minerals etc. and Magnesium. Incidentally, in a lecture Steiner says that the teeth are taking in Fluoride in order to better our thinking. Man, what a thing. So, Fluoride can harden your thinking (and brain). Regards Ferdinand Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage wrote: > Ferdinand > > Interestingly I have read RS talk of teeth as a balanced interplay of > Magnesium and Flouride. Have you noted the big and strong teeth of the > people born in the US mid west, where the magnesium is 22% of the soil. > No doubt calcuim has a role but magnesium could well be the missing key > here and certainly one dentistry has not got a hold of yet. Also it > emphasises the role of magnesium as a carrier of the etheric possibly > into more Astral spheres than calcium can go????? > > just a thought. > > Glen A. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 23:28:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA02636 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19776; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:16:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19525 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:15:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MOpF-0000Ez-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:18:02 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC89A9.CFF45A80@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:16:41 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Newcomer References: <36E9E2EC.D34BEE4E@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 christopher jones wrote: > I am new to bio-dynamics. I live in in Southern California and have a > lot of shale with little organic matter. Any suggestions on how to > begin a more bio-dynamic situation. Dear Christopher: To begin with, get as much organic matter as you can. Leaves, grass, compost, kitchen waste, wood chips from leaf trees (never needle) - you may have to import stuff. Buy BD Compost Preps and get the compost going. Perhaps you can keep rabbits or get a bit of cow manure from somewhere. Make sure you get 'a set' of worms, too. Spray 500 soonest. Check your soil pH. Get a rain barrel. Cover the soil with straw so that soil life can develop underneath. Well, why am I saying this all? YOu may be much further. Sorry for being so obtrusive. All the best Ferdinand > > > -- > > Christopher Jones > feast@pacbell.net -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 23:31:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA02706 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA20267; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:19:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20190 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:19:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max5-4.stc.net [208.210.133.4]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA22406 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:21:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001c01be6e8a$83679b20$9d4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:29:11 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Fw: agsyn.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 >I hesitate to question authority, but since that is YOUR motto, thought you >wouldn't mind! :-) > >This is something that came to me from discussions some months back...that >it is extremely important to have the right attitude when stirring, applying >preps, working with the land. Perhaps being so novice, I've misunderstood in >some way. It seems especially true, in life, that our emotional state >permeates our environment & colors our experience. If the lens through which >we see is colored by love, the world responds lovingly (or maybe life just >returns through that lens & is transformed!). And so it is with anger & >hate. You speak of "intent", and for me, intent is certainly influenced by >the lens of the moment. I know there are certain tasks that I must commence >with some semblance of balance. (for example, if I try to milk a cow when >I'm angry, I will, without fail, get kicked) I'm with you. When I'm feeling mean I get kicked too. I have sometimes felt mean though, and thus I've been kicked a few times. Been kicked a few times when I was blissfully unsuspecting and maybe the cow was the one feeling mean too. So I've found it pays to be cool but alert. > >>From my personal symbology...water is emotion (whether that's right or >wrong...when the basement floods, or the well pump breaks - I look at my >emotions for an answer & QUICK adjustment! :-). Water, carrier of the >preparations to the land, would seem to the ideal conduit for one's >emotions. And as you pointed out at your recent seminar (btw, I loved this >part...) that defying the laws of physics, the vibrations(?) flow from >lesser concentration to higher concentration. So would not the application >of preps even magnify one's emotional >state? How can Greg keep from communicating this to the vineyards? I don't know Greg all that well, but I'm surprised he hasn't threatened to sue me yet. I feel a bit left out. Nonetheless, I've been in several vinyards with him and never seen him be angry even a moment in any. So how does he keep from communicating his anger (and I believe fear) stirring preps in a vinyard? Same way I keep it out of my milking parlor. It's a sacred activity and not something to come at with a chip on the shoulder. And I believe you might think again if you knew Michael Topolos's attitude toward BD and wine making, he's a very genial guy with a good grasp of BD and a reverent wine maker as well as being a fine restauranteur. I've watched him care for his horses and I've seen the very special relationship he has with his son. I'm sure he has some character flaws in there somewhere, but I haven't seen them. > >I have to say I never had a big problem with Greg. In fact I did admire his >thinking and his knowledge regarding a number of BD principles. But knowing >that lens through which he sees things, and the resulting energy that >returns to him through that lens, would be enough to keep me from ingesting >Topolos wines...or any product I know has this energy incorporated into it! >For me specifically, this stems from some of Greg's views on the feminine >and I have to tell you that as a woman, I'd be crazy to knowingly bring that >energy into my being. I don't think you're missing much. Greg surely doesn't know how to relate to the feminine gender, which might explain him not knowing any better than to marry a lesbian and not getting particularly enlightened about women as a result either. I can't say that affects my appreciation of his talents as a wine grape consultant though. Grapes are something he's remarkably intuitive--I would say clairvoyant--about. > >So, am I missing something important here? I mean, should I not try to >develop a healthy mental state (love, being the emotion of choice) and >approach these practices in as centered a way as possible? Otherwise, am I >doing nothing good at all -- or worse, do I contaminate my environment & its >product? > >Thanks, > >Julie > >PS..I don't think that it was Greg's questioning of the BDA & Demeter, their >financial records, motives, etc. that upset people...it was his overly >aggressive assault tactics. I suspect he did accomplish some re-evaluation >on the part of BDA & Demeter, I don't know for sure, but in the process, he >gave up all of his own power by being a hostile fanatic about it. I think you're quite right actually. > >PPS...Greg, if you're getting a copy of this, please don't bother writing >me, threatening to sue, whatever...I am broke. Julie, if Greg gets a copy of this maybe I will get a threat of a lawsuit from him too. Or maybe not. My attitude towards lawsuits is go ahead and sue me. At least I have the right to defend myself so as not to spend a lot of money on such a thing. Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 23:39:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01861 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:12:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17421; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17330 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MObP-0004ed-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:03:44 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC864F.D811C26A@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:02:23 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces and teeth References: <36EC0DDC.78F3@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 Excellent, and many thanks to you, Glen. It is indeed interesting what the etheric is able and willing (permit me this statement) to work with. My thinking has to change SOOO much that I am (at times) falling totally out of bed with Science. You see, when STeiner says in one of his lectures (I think in the Agri Course) that we do not eat food in order to feed ourselves with all kinds of stuff (with the exception of sugar), but that we eat in order to 'attract' the forces that will work with our body....., well, then you see how much we have to change in our approach to a new understanding of our diets and dieting. So, Calcium is not 'eaten' in order to grow better teeth. Never. We ought to take in homeopatized Calcium in order to teach the (our) body to deal with Calcium properly. Same may have to be done with other minerals etc. and Magnesium. Incidentally, in a lecture Steiner says that the teeth are taking in Fluoride in order to better our thinking. Man, what a thing. So, Fluoride can harden your thinking (and brain). Regards Ferdinand Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage wrote: > Ferdinand > > Interestingly I have read RS talk of teeth as a balanced interplay of > Magnesium and Flouride. Have you noted the big and strong teeth of the > people born in the US mid west, where the magnesium is 22% of the soil. > No doubt calcuim has a role but magnesium could well be the missing key > here and certainly one dentistry has not got a hold of yet. Also it > emphasises the role of magnesium as a carrier of the etheric possibly > into more Astral spheres than calcium can go????? > > just a thought. > > Glen A. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 00:20:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04171 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA28498; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:08:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28053 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:06:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-131.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.131]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA28824 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:08:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36EC956F.4BDD@ipa.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:06:55 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Hmmm Steve, > I quite liked your answer, but somehow missed your 'personal' sutra in > there! Just which method do you use? > > Thanks, > Jane Here is an interesting planting method which I don't think many list readers have seen, but could come in handy if super low-maintenance production is something you desire. The last three years, I've maintained a roadside flower bed on a paved county road about 20 minutes outside of town. This is a demonstration flower bed that contains native prairie plants, wildflowers, herbaceous perennials, perennial herbs, and unusual annuals. This is a multi-purpose flower bed that demonstrates a low-maintenance growing method, phenology or sequence of bloom, seed factory, insectary-butterfly garden, community supported agriculture, and community beautification. It is a CSA of the community supported type, rather than a subscription marketing venture. The farmer who owns the land is a friend. He and his wife operate an apple orchard and nursery. They are one of many small farms in the Ozarks, trying to keep rural communities intact, trying to show there is an ecological way to farm. A city dweller like myself and some friends who helped plant the bed contribute to the aesthetic and ecological well-being of such a farm by planting a flower-herb bed. Thus, it is a community supported agriculture project because a community of friends are supporting this small farm family and their efforts to live on the land, and, the flower bed brings beauty and life to the farm. In fact, it has turned into a true community project because neighbors sometimes gather by the roadside flower bed for a chat on their evening strolls. It has also spawned a trend to establish other roadside flower beds in the neighborhood, though none as large as the 1,000 sq. ft bed. This is a rural area, with country folk, in a region known as Round Mountian. The roadside flower bed is 100' long and 10' wide. The integrated planting system is the Sunbelt-HydroSource Dryland Production Bed. It combines the DeWitt Sunbelt Weed Barrier as a geotextile weed control mulch, and the HydroSource hydrogel as a moiture retaining hydrogel. The pasture was brush-hogged, then roto-tilled with a BSC walking tractor (rear-tine). A biocatalyzed poultry litter-based fertilizer was broadcast, then the hydrogel was broadcast. The weed barrier was laid out and pinned down with u-pins. A hand-held propane torch was used to burn small holes in the weed barrier (the flame cauterizes or melts the weed barrier, thus preventing running of threads like cloth). A hand trowel is the only planting tool you need. Soil was scooped up, then a bit of hydrated hydrogel put into the bottom of the hole along with mycorrhizal inoculant to enhance plant establishment and encourage symbiotic root association with beneficial rhizosphere microorganisms, then the 2-inch, 4-inch, 6-pack, 4-pack, and 6-inch potted plants were tucked in. The only watering that was done was the first 2 weeks in the hot summer sun (planted June 15th, very late in the season, with temperatures in the high 90's) until the first rains came. Thereafter, the bed has been 99% rainfed. A few hand waterings were done at critical times, especially when new plants were put in. But, there is no water source at the site and all water has to be hauled by truck and then hand watered. Thus, the bed was intended to be low-maintenance and that is why the hydrogel was used. The weed barrier is the critical component, however, because there is fescue grass and Johnsongrass and all-round tough and competitive vegetative that would otherwise run over the carefully selected plants. With the Sunbelt Weed Barrier production method, you can roto-till first or you can go with no-till. Since we established the flower bed on a permanent pasture with thick sod, I chose to roto-till the fescue mix first because we were using hand trowels to scoop the soil up for potted plants. The loose soil made this much easier, especially when you have friends helping out in the hot sun you don't want them to get discouraged. However, other beds have been established no-till right onto pastures and it has worked fine elsewhere. There is a 5 acre biodynamic flower farm in Oregon that uses DeWitt Pro-5 Weed Barrier on tractor-formed permanent raised beds. The holes burnt into the weed barrier are pre-set at 6-inch, 12-inch, 18-inch depending on the species grown. At the end of the season, the weed barrier (about 6' wide) is rolled up and carefully stored in a barn. In the off-season, a winter cover crop is established. In the spring, the cover crop is ploughed down as a green manure. A compost wagon pulled behind the tractor (straddling the bed) delivers compost as a topdress to the beds followed by mechanical incorporation (tillage) and final soil finishing and bed forming. The weed barrier and drip lines are laid back out and tucked down. This is followed by transplanting cut flower plugs. Thus, the weed barrier system I have described is practical at a home scale or at a commercial scale. A poem inspired by the Round Mountain Roadside Flower Bed: The beauty of the Earth Fills my eyes With a pounding heart My spirit soars Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 00:59:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05400 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:59:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA04032; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:47:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03846 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MQF2-000101-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:48:44 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC9EEC.74A07E1E@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:47:24 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 Where do I stand? Well, it really (as Hugh said) depends. T'would be ever so nice if one would not have to dig at all. You save cost and a lot of plowing hours. Yet, some soils need to be aerated, dug, turned, plowed, chisel plowed, chair harrowed, combed you name it. And it also depends upon the crop. In our gardens we apply Barrel Compost & Compost & (if seeded in the fall) Rye and then (after cutting the 5" high rye) we dig it all under. It is very difficult not to dig in our climate where we have to cover the soil with a thick layer of leaves in the fall (to protect it against the heavy rain fall). In the years of my apprenticeship (in Switzerland) when the winters were still cold (below freezing) you'd plow in the fall and let the frost crumble the soil. It made a most exquisite, fine till. And the compost was applied in the spring together with the preparations. As the soil was clayish and heavy, no till would not really have worked. It needed to be broken up. The new weather pattern, however, makes the situation different and I do not know how clay soils will react when there is little or no frost. Do we get a slimy, smeary and heavy soil (mess) with plowing? Clay soils are the most challenging to work with (not forgiving at all) and only the master farmer can make a living on it. I, personally, prefer a sandy soil. So, clay soils - Andrew Lorand - how do we go about here without plowing? In Holland, where I observed farmers dealing with clay soil(s) they were tilling too. How about a hard pan? Just want to know a bit more about tilling and no tilling in various soils. Regards Ferdinand Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Hello Bd-Now friends, > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > seeds.) > > I'm wondering about you bd farmers, where you stand with this and what are > some of your practices when you have new land to get ready for planting? > The no till folks say that disturbing the soil wipes out the beneficent > organisms. Others say, that Jeavons method, merely moves the top layer > over, digging down to allow for deep root growth, then adding the top layer > back on top. > > I understand that Jeavons studied both the french intensive method of > gardening/farming and also studied with Rudolf Steiner in the 20's before > bringing these methods to California, but was wondering, now that we've had > so much more time for industry (ag included) to screw with the soil, what > approach do you all take? > > Thanks for any insights into this mystery! > > Best Regards, > Jane Sherry -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 01:23:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA05992 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:23:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA07460; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:11:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07378 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:11:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-91.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.91]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13834 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:13:34 +1100 Message-ID: <00db01be6eaa$dc4d4620$55431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Please pass onto Dr. Andrew Lorand. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:08:01 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D3_01BE6F06.61DE5440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01BE6F06.61DE5440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Andrew,=20 Could I please use this answer that you gave on BD Now list, for slugs = and snails in our BDFGAA News Leaf. If you would like some personal = information to go with this piece, eg. where you live and what you do, = please add this info. I really appreciated the part that Steve Diver = used of yours in the ATTRA publication re the Comparative paradigms of = Traditional/mechanical. organic and BD farming systems. So good to = finally see the spiritual aspect of BD acknowledged. It is like we are = finally able to come out of the closet and say what we really are on = about. Thankyou, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322=20 Question: Any suggestions for repelling slugs and snails?=20 Answer: From Dr. Andrew Lorand (BDNow list)=20 I suggest you make up some pine cone soup. Pine cone soup is made by = boiling pine cones in water. Use only a pot that you can afford to throw = away afterwards as it will be a sticky mess. Fill your pot 2/3 with = fertile (seeded) cones, then add water. Boil under low flames and stir. = Should produce a brown-black goo, that you can pour (at least a couple = of inches wide) around your garden or areas affected by snails. Do not = cover! My experience both in Switzerland and in Pennsylvania is that = this works quite well in repelling snails and slugs for a period of a = month, sometimes a little longer. I used only local species of pine in = each case. Snails will attempt to cross this line and retreat. This = recipe was given to me by a very old farmer who lived in the Jura = mountains of Switzerland near Neuchatel. Rationale: There is the = handed-down experience here of several generations, plus the obvious = attempt to create an ecological/physical barrier. An = anthroposophical/biodynamic background to this has to do with the fiery = planetary forces of Saturn (pine) being overwhelming for the snails and = slugs who live in the watery forces of the moon. I would also advocate the use of nettle (urtica dioica) and horsetail = (equisetum arvense) teas. Snails and slugs, like other so-called pests = arrive when the garden or farm has an immunological weakness or = imbalance. Like all disease causing agents, they are virtually always = available (like bacteria and fungi) but only attack when the ecosystem = is weakened. They arrive to do a job, to call forth a response from the = farm organism to strengthen itself. Thus, I prefer to strengthen the = organism on a regular basis whenever possible. Nettle is a gentle, but potent immunological support. I make both = passive (sun) teas and active (boiled) brews and spray all my seedlings = and field crops regularly. I prefer to spray a concentrated form, rather = than a diluted one even if it means less coverage. I also prefer to = spray in the week before full moon, adding growth potency to the teas = immunological effect. Nettle has of course a high concentration of = organically bound iron, which many folks attribute its effect to. On the = other hand horsetail must be boiled at least 15 minutes to release the = active ingredient (silica), which when sprayed on crops acts as an = astringent, which in itself provides a barrier effect. Additionally, we could add an anthroposophical/biodynamic perspective = which might be that the presence of snails an slugs shows that the four = basic ether forces (life, chemical, light and warmth ether) are out of = balance. These forces run or hover along (in, below, and above) the soil = in a contoured, but defined set of patterns. When the life and chemical = ethers, that have mostly to do with the ground itself, run to high above = the ground we tend to see fog, dampness and given the opportunity over = time, also fungi, snails, slugs etc. (creatures of the dark and damp). = By applying nettle we strengthen the plant and soil microbiology; by = applying the horsetail we add a crispness to the leaves, but both also = act as regulators for the etheric forces. The horsetail invites the = light ether and the nettle the warmth ether to regain their proper place = and balance visa vie the life and chemical ethers. This keeps the kinds = of forces that the snails and slugs bring in the soil, rather than above = the soil - which is where they belong most of the time. ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01BE6F06.61DE5440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Andrew,

Could I please use this answer that you gave on BD Now list, for = slugs and=20 snails  in our BDFGAA News Leaf. If you would like some personal=20 information  to go with this piece, eg. where you live and what you = do,=20 please add this info.  I really appreciated the part that Steve = Diver used=20 of yours in the ATTRA publication re the Comparative paradigms of=20 Traditional/mechanical. organic and BD farming systems.  So good to = finally=20 see the spiritual aspect of BD acknowledged.  It is like we are = finally=20 able to come out of the closet and say what we really are on about.

Thankyou,

Cheryl Kemp
Education & Advisory Coordinator
Bio-Dynamic = Farming=20 and Gardening Assoc.
of Australia Inc.
P.O Box 54, Bellingen. = 2454.=20 (Office)
627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home)
Phone; + 02 66 = 575306=20 Fax 02 66 575322

 

 

Question: Any suggestions for repelling slugs and = snails?
Answer: = From Dr.=20 Andrew Lorand (BDNow list)
I suggest you make up some pine cone = soup. Pine=20 cone soup is made by boiling pine cones in water. Use only a pot that = you can=20 afford to throw away afterwards as it will be a sticky mess. Fill your = pot 2/3=20 with fertile (seeded) cones, then add water. Boil under low flames and = stir.=20 Should produce a brown-black goo, that you can pour (at least a couple = of inches=20 wide) around your garden or areas affected by snails. Do not cover! My=20 experience both in Switzerland and in Pennsylvania is that this works = quite well=20 in repelling snails and slugs for a period of a month, sometimes a = little=20 longer. I used only local species of pine in each case. Snails will = attempt to=20 cross this line and retreat. This recipe was given to me by a very old = farmer=20 who lived in the Jura mountains of Switzerland near Neuchatel. = Rationale: There=20 is the handed-down experience here of several generations, plus the = obvious=20 attempt to create an ecological/physical barrier. An = anthroposophical/biodynamic=20 background to this has to do with the fiery planetary forces of Saturn = (pine)=20 being overwhelming for the snails and slugs who live in the watery = forces of the=20 moon.

I would also advocate the use of nettle (urtica dioica) and = horsetail (equisetum arvense) teas. Snails and slugs, like other = so-called pests=20 arrive when the garden or farm has an immunological weakness or = imbalance. Like=20 all disease causing agents, they are virtually always available (like = bacteria=20 and fungi) but only attack when the ecosystem is weakened. They arrive = to do a=20 job, to call forth a response from the farm organism to strengthen = itself. Thus,=20 I prefer to strengthen the organism on a regular basis whenever=20 possible.

Nettle is a gentle, but potent immunological support. I = make=20 both passive (sun) teas and active (boiled) brews and spray all my = seedlings and=20 field crops regularly. I prefer to spray a concentrated form, rather = than a=20 diluted one even if it means less coverage. I also prefer to spray in = the week=20 before full moon, adding growth potency to the teas immunological = effect. Nettle=20 has of course a high concentration of organically bound iron, which many = folks=20 attribute its effect to. On the other hand horsetail must be boiled at = least 15=20 minutes to release the active ingredient (silica), which when sprayed on = crops=20 acts as an astringent, which in itself provides a barrier=20 effect.

Additionally, we could add an anthroposophical/biodynamic = perspective which might be that the presence of snails an slugs shows = that the=20 four basic ether forces (life, chemical, light and warmth ether) are out = of=20 balance. These forces run or hover along (in, below, and above) the soil = in a=20 contoured, but defined set of patterns. When the life and chemical = ethers, that=20 have mostly to do with the ground itself, run to high above the ground = we tend=20 to see fog, dampness and given the opportunity over time, also fungi, = snails,=20 slugs etc. (creatures of the dark and damp). By applying nettle we = strengthen=20 the plant and soil microbiology; by applying the horsetail we add a = crispness to=20 the leaves, but both also act as regulators for the etheric forces. The=20 horsetail invites the light ether and the nettle the warmth ether to = regain=20 their proper place and balance visa vie the life and chemical ethers. = This keeps=20 the kinds of forces that the snails and slugs bring in the soil, rather = than=20 above the soil - which is where they belong most of the=20 time.


------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01BE6F06.61DE5440-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 06:20:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA12575 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:20:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA10205; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp3.hawaii.rr.com (smtp3.hawaii.rr.com [204.210.97.13]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA09889 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:06:13 -0500 (EST) Received: apparently from phyl.hawaii.rr.com - 24.94.65.129 by smtp3.hawaii.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:05:27 -1000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990315010639.0103518c@pop-server> X-Sender: pdwyer@pop-server X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:08:56 -1000 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Phyl Dwyer Subject: Re: FAQ on BD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 >A very good overview of Biodynamic practice is Wolf Storl's Culture and >Horticulture: A Philosophy of Gardening. Another plus is that the book is >very inexpensive. > >The book is available from > >http://www.igg.com/bdnow/books/booksale.html > >OR > >http://www.biodynamic.net/links/history.html > >Sincerely, >John P. Gallerie ----------------------------- Dear John & BDNow Friends, You are ABSOLUTELY right. Wolf's book "Culture and Horticulture" is one of the best overviews of agriculture! And at $10, or less, it is also one of the few remaining "great deals" in the market place. Some months ago here at Kahumana Farm, Hawaii several us started reading and discussing Wolf's book. To the person, everyone in our study group proclaims with astonishment and appreciation what a fantastic work it is. (John, I feel very fortunate to have studied with you and Wolf those many years ago; and thrilled to see the study go on in our little group here!) Phyl Dwyer pdwyer@hawaii.rr.com =================================================== Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address =================================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 09:13:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16895 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:13:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29930; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:02:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29601 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:59:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-66.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.241] (may be forged)) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id IAA14336 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:03:05 -0600 Message-ID: <002201be6efd$7fffbbc0$f1f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:02:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different for different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD CSA farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. But maybe the solution is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three years ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year my partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. We are also breaking ground, the field has been wild, for were not sure how long. It has five foot wild carrot (which Pfeiffer points out as a good sign) and also bergamot and burdock and wild asparagus. We did an old fashion burn yesterday, which was incrediblely exciting. We plan on leaving a few beds to come back as nature would have it. I will let the list know how this goes. But I think it is very feasible to double dig a quarter acre each season as the one originally dug will become softer and softer, especially with compost and cover crops. So if you look at your plot of land as a ten year project instead of a one year project, the quest for the double dug farm looks more reasonable. on burned ground, Parker -----Original Message----- From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 5:29 PM Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging ><on this subject. Thus, a sutra is all you need, but the explanation >goes on and on. >> > >Hmmm Steve, >I quite liked your answer, but somehow missed your 'personal' sutra in >there! Just which method do you use? > >Thanks, >Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 09:27:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17356 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01530; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:17:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01276 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:14:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-76.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.251] (may be forged)) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id IAA14622 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:18:06 -0600 Message-ID: <002a01be6eff$99436800$f1f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: flow form Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:17:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE6EBC.555FC7C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE6EBC.555FC7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List- All the talk was so fascinating awhile back on the flowforms that I = bought Schwenk's Sensitive Chaos. This book has only increased my = enthusiasm for flowing forms. Yesterday I was playing with the 4 year = old son of the man who owns the land I live on. There is a spring which = runs into a hand dug pond which flows into a shallow creek that we run = the water ram off of. I showed Ian a picture of the flow form and = suggested that we go down to the creek and experiment with building a = natural run with the rocks already living there. This turned into an all = afternoon project as Ian exclaimed again and again "dis is wrere cool!, = I felt exactly the same way as we worked our way probably a quarter mile = down the creek and built four, probably 40 ft flowforms with the rocks = along the sides of the creek. I wrestled with the idea that I was = changing the natural flow of the creek, but also felt distinctly that = the dry rocks from the side of the bed were loving their new bath of = water. We spent time after each construction looking at the forms we = built, sitting in the sun, and explaining to Ian again and again why I = didn't want to connect all the flow forms together but leave large = spaces for the creek to spend its life in its natural state. He finally = said to me, "The creek is happy". As good an exclamation as could be. Parker ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE6EBC.555FC7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List-
All the talk was so = fascinating awhile=20 back on the flowforms that I bought Schwenk's Sensitive Chaos. This book = has=20 only increased my enthusiasm for flowing forms. Yesterday I was playing = with the=20 4 year old son of the man who owns the land I live on. There is a spring = which=20 runs into a hand dug pond which flows into a shallow creek that we run = the water=20 ram off of. I showed Ian a picture of the flow form and suggested that = we go=20 down to the creek and experiment with building a natural run with the = rocks=20 already living there. This turned into an all afternoon project as Ian = exclaimed=20 again and again "dis is wrere cool!, I felt exactly the same way as = we=20 worked our way probably a quarter mile down the creek and built four, = probably=20 40 ft flowforms with the rocks along the sides of the creek. I wrestled = with the=20 idea that I was changing the natural flow of the creek, but also felt = distinctly=20 that the dry rocks from the side of the bed were loving their new bath = of water.=20 We spent time after each construction looking at the forms we built, = sitting in=20 the sun, and explaining to Ian again and again why I didn't want to = connect all=20 the flow forms together but leave large spaces for the creek to spend = its life=20 in its natural state. He finally said to me, "The creek is = happy". As=20 good an exclamation as could be.
 
Parker
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE6EBC.555FC7C0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 09:34:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17550 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:34:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02087; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:23:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01836 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:20:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.134] (pm3shep1-163-39.intrepid.net [209.190.163.39]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21758 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:23:21 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002201be6efd$7fffbbc0$f1f2facf@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:25:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 >I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different for >different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD CSA >farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that >double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. Parker - was this a start-up CSA? Were these initial double-digs, or what was happening at this BD CSA? (remind me: which BD CSA is this?) But maybe the solution >is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. Like a growing number of BD growers, Bruce Blevins is a champion of the Italian machines. (NOT the Dutch machines) His motto: when you bring the tractor into the garden your main plan has to be how to get the tractor back out of the garden. I believe he plans for three spadings in a two season period. And then it's U-bars from then on. >Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple >more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three years >ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year my >partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. IMHO, If you are planning initial digs with u-bars, either you don't really need double- digging, ie your soil is very loose already, or you are going to have a couple of broken u-bars or you just plain aint going to make it. If time is of the essence, a single dig the first year, with good deep rooting cover crops over the winter (and daikon whenever possible otherwise :-), and a double dig the following spring, would seem like a good plan. The real Steve Moore, at Wilson College in Chambersburg PA, is a certified John Jeavons instructor and takes a very s-l-o-w approach to that two foot deep bed. He says that you should enjoy repeatedly discovering how much of your double digging the plants do for you....over the seasons as you dig and re-dig your bed. Your idea of 'volunteer beds' is rather exciting! Just my two-cents, Allan Balliett BIODYNAMICS Now! POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding << Please note the new fax number!! >> =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 09:39:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17950 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:39:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02703; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02409 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:26:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.126.15] (client196-126-15.bellatlantic.net [151.196.126.15]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26472 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:31:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903151431.JAA26472@smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:29:41 -0500 Subject: Re: GEO Consensus - BDNow From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 > > Dear Steven, > Your vigilance on this matter is appreciated. Does this mean that at the > new moon you will issue the consensus statement that you have thus far? > > Thanks for all your work and good energy. > Jane Sherry > That's a great idea, Jane. New moon comes Wednesday, March 17 -- Toora Loora, Loora -- at 1:49 PM EST -- AT 26 PISCES 44 --But then Moon is void of course till 7: 14 PM when it enters Aries. WILL make a note in my calendar -- and post what I've got so far Thursday morning (Hmmm- When Chiron goes Retrograde in Sag !) Pax, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 10:10:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18882 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:10:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA06437; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:59:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06035 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.4]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:01:12 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:00:13 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Fw: agsyn.com Message-ID: <89B950C89CEBB0A98525673500523FA6.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 <> Oh, that's easy Hugh! You're just too darn complimentary of him for him to sue you! <> Oh, thanks for this good laugh Hugh! It's unenlightened nonsense like this that's gonna make me include you in my prayers tonight along with Greg! Regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 10:44:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20306 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:44:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA11106; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:32:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09305 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:25:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.33.101 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:27:02 -0800 Message-ID: <002701be6ef7$e1cf76c0$65212599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Of Snails, Slugs and Remedies... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:24:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE6EB4.D27675E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE6EB4.D27675E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Cheryl, Certainly use the quote!=20 Andrew =20 =20 Dear Andrew,=20 Could I please use this answer that you gave on BD Now list, for = slugs and snails in our BDFGAA News Leaf. If you would like some = personal information to go with this piece, eg. where you live and what = you do, please add this info. I really appreciated the part that Steve = Diver used of yours in the ATTRA publication re the Comparative = paradigms of Traditional/mechanical. organic and BD farming systems. So = good to finally see the spiritual aspect of BD acknowledged. It is like = we are finally able to come out of the closet and say what we really are = on about. Thankyou, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322=20 =20 =20 =20 Question: Any suggestions for repelling slugs and snails?=20 Answer: From Dr. Andrew Lorand (BDNow list)=20 I suggest you make up some pine cone soup. Pine cone soup is made by = boiling pine cones in water. Use only a pot that you can afford to throw = away afterwards as it will be a sticky mess. Fill your pot 2/3 with = fertile (seeded) cones, then add water. Boil under low flames and stir. = Should produce a brown-black goo, that you can pour (at least a couple = of inches wide) around your garden or areas affected by snails. Do not = cover! My experience both in Switzerland and in Pennsylvania is that = this works quite well in repelling snails and slugs for a period of a = month, sometimes a little longer. I used only local species of pine in = each case. Snails will attempt to cross this line and retreat. This = recipe was given to me by a very old farmer who lived in the Jura = mountains of Switzerland near Neuchatel. Rationale: There is the = handed-down experience here of several generations, plus the obvious = attempt to create an ecological/physical barrier. An = anthroposophical/biodynamic background to this has to do with the fiery = planetary forces of Saturn (pine) being overwhelming for the snails and = slugs who live in the watery forces of the moon. =20 I would also advocate the use of nettle (urtica dioica) and = horsetail (equisetum arvense) teas. Snails and slugs, like other = so-called pests arrive when the garden or farm has an immunological = weakness or imbalance. Like all disease causing agents, they are = virtually always available (like bacteria and fungi) but only attack = when the ecosystem is weakened. They arrive to do a job, to call forth a = response from the farm organism to strengthen itself. Thus, I prefer to = strengthen the organism on a regular basis whenever possible. =20 Nettle is a gentle, but potent immunological support. I make both = passive (sun) teas and active (boiled) brews and spray all my seedlings = and field crops regularly. I prefer to spray a concentrated form, rather = than a diluted one even if it means less coverage. I also prefer to = spray in the week before full moon, adding growth potency to the teas = immunological effect. Nettle has of course a high concentration of = organically bound iron, which many folks attribute its effect to. On the = other hand horsetail must be boiled at least 15 minutes to release the = active ingredient (silica), which when sprayed on crops acts as an = astringent, which in itself provides a barrier effect. =20 Additionally, we could add an anthroposophical/biodynamic = perspective which might be that the presence of snails an slugs shows = that the four basic ether forces (life, chemical, light and warmth = ether) are out of balance. These forces run or hover along (in, below, = and above) the soil in a contoured, but defined set of patterns. When = the life and chemical ethers, that have mostly to do with the ground = itself, run to high above the ground we tend to see fog, dampness and = given the opportunity over time, also fungi, snails, slugs etc. = (creatures of the dark and damp). By applying nettle we strengthen the = plant and soil microbiology; by applying the horsetail we add a = crispness to the leaves, but both also act as regulators for the etheric = forces. The horsetail invites the light ether and the nettle the warmth = ether to regain their proper place and balance visa vie the life and = chemical ethers. This keeps the kinds of forces that the snails and = slugs bring in the soil, rather than above the soil - which is where = they belong most of the time. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE6EB4.D27675E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear=20 Cheryl,
 
Certainly use the quote! =
 
Andrew
 

Dear Andrew, =

Could I please use this = answer that you=20 gave on BD Now list, for slugs and snails  in our BDFGAA News = Leaf. If=20 you would like some personal information  to go with this = piece, eg.=20 where you live and what you do, please add this info.  I really = appreciated the part that Steve Diver used of yours in the ATTRA = publication=20 re the Comparative paradigms of Traditional/mechanical. organic and = BD=20 farming systems.  So good to finally see the spiritual aspect = of BD=20 acknowledged.  It is like we are finally able to come out of = the closet=20 and say what we really are on about.

Thankyou,

Cheryl Kemp
Education = & Advisory=20 Coordinator
Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc.
of = Australia=20 Inc.
P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office)
627 Tyringham Rd, = Dorrigo=20 Nth. 2453 (Home)
Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322=20

 

 

Question: Any = suggestions=20 for repelling slugs and snails?
Answer: From Dr. Andrew = Lorand (BDNow=20 list)
I suggest you make up some pine cone soup. Pine cone soup = is made=20 by boiling pine cones in water. Use only a pot that you can afford = to throw=20 away afterwards as it will be a sticky mess. Fill your pot 2/3 with = fertile=20 (seeded) cones, then add water. Boil under low flames and stir. = Should=20 produce a brown-black goo, that you can pour (at least a couple of = inches=20 wide) around your garden or areas affected by snails. Do not cover! = My=20 experience both in Switzerland and in Pennsylvania is that this = works quite=20 well in repelling snails and slugs for a period of a month, = sometimes a=20 little longer. I used only local species of pine in each case. = Snails will=20 attempt to cross this line and retreat. This recipe was given to me = by a=20 very old farmer who lived in the Jura mountains of Switzerland near=20 Neuchatel. Rationale: There is the handed-down experience here of = several=20 generations, plus the obvious attempt to create an = ecological/physical=20 barrier. An anthroposophical/biodynamic background to this has to do = with=20 the fiery planetary forces of Saturn (pine) being overwhelming for = the=20 snails and slugs who live in the watery forces of the moon.

I = would=20 also advocate the use of nettle (urtica dioica) and horsetail = (equisetum=20 arvense) teas. Snails and slugs, like other so-called pests arrive = when the=20 garden or farm has an immunological weakness or imbalance. Like all = disease=20 causing agents, they are virtually always available (like bacteria = and=20 fungi) but only attack when the ecosystem is weakened. They arrive = to do a=20 job, to call forth a response from the farm organism to strengthen = itself.=20 Thus, I prefer to strengthen the organism on a regular basis = whenever=20 possible.

Nettle is a gentle, but potent immunological = support. I=20 make both passive (sun) teas and active (boiled) brews and spray all = my=20 seedlings and field crops regularly. I prefer to spray a = concentrated form,=20 rather than a diluted one even if it means less coverage. I also = prefer to=20 spray in the week before full moon, adding growth potency to the = teas=20 immunological effect. Nettle has of course a high concentration of=20 organically bound iron, which many folks attribute its effect to. On = the=20 other hand horsetail must be boiled at least 15 minutes to release = the=20 active ingredient (silica), which when sprayed on crops acts as an=20 astringent, which in itself provides a barrier = effect.

Additionally,=20 we could add an anthroposophical/biodynamic perspective which might = be that=20 the presence of snails an slugs shows that the four basic ether = forces=20 (life, chemical, light and warmth ether) are out of balance. These = forces=20 run or hover along (in, below, and above) the soil in a contoured, = but=20 defined set of patterns. When the life and chemical ethers, that = have mostly=20 to do with the ground itself, run to high above the ground we tend = to see=20 fog, dampness and given the opportunity over time, also fungi, = snails, slugs=20 etc. (creatures of the dark and damp). By applying nettle we = strengthen the=20 plant and soil microbiology; by applying the horsetail we add a = crispness to=20 the leaves, but both also act as regulators for the etheric forces. = The=20 horsetail invites the light ether and the nettle the warmth ether to = regain=20 their proper place and balance visa vie the life and chemical = ethers. This=20 keeps the kinds of forces that the snails and slugs bring in the = soil,=20 rather than above the soil - which is where they belong most of the=20 time.


------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE6EB4.D27675E0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 11:37:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22572 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:37:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18846; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18416 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:24:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009CF039@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:27:26 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 11:27:23 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 11:26:54 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:26:54 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1287F9B92607@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 Just want to say that as a HUGE fan of mulching I think that it should be used at all times regarless of tilling (though that might have to be slightly amended in super wet climates...) And as for double digging, how practical is this really beyond the smallest hobby garden? I saw if forced (my word) on a largish scale on what started out as a bd development project in NW Dominican Republic and can tell you from having visited it 10 or so years after it's inception, it has yet to be adopted out in the community and the only reason it continues on the original project is that scholarshipped students do the work and grant money funds the whole thing. Farming is such hard work anyway, how many of you find time and energy to do double digging on top of that? (That's not a rhetorical question.) Moving Jane's question from theory to practice... Anita > Hello Bd-Now friends, > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > seeds.) > > I'm wondering about you bd farmers, where you stand with this and what are > some of your practices when you have new land to get ready for planting? > The no till folks say that disturbing the soil wipes out the beneficent > organisms. Others say, that Jeavons method, merely moves the top layer > over, digging down to allow for deep root growth, then adding the top layer > back on top. > > I understand that Jeavons studied both the french intensive method of > gardening/farming and also studied with Rudolf Steiner in the 20's before > bringing these methods to California, but was wondering, now that we've had > so much more time for industry (ag included) to screw with the soil, what > approach do you all take? > > Thanks for any insights into this mystery! > > Best Regards, > Jane Sherry > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 11:41:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22707 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19362; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:30:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19208 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:29:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009CF16E@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:31:55 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 11:31:52 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 11:31:43 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:31:41 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36EC58F9.3C6D@ipa.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <12880E467AF2@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 Just realized that when I posted my last post on this topic that it had already been well covered (pun?) beautifully and articulately by Steve and others. It ain't easy keeping up with all the posts sometimes! Anita > Jane Sherry wrote: > > Hello Bd-Now friends, > > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > > seeds.) > > In permaculture, you'd find preference for the no-till method. > In biointensive,you'd find preference for double-dig. > In Fukuoka-style natural farming, you'd find preference for no-till. > In Kyusei Nature Farming, you'd find preference for a mechanical spader. > In market gardening, who has time to double-dig, or rely on > comparatively more risky no-till. > In truck farming, you'd find preference for mechanical tillage. > In backyard gardening, you can do whatever you want. > In biodynamics, you have a framework to interweave biological > and dynamic practices to create a living dynamic force in the > garden or farm so there is flexibility and adaptability to > the whatever digging method works best for your particular > situation, though incorporation of compost would be seen as > a good soil management practice. > > "Nature bends and shapes the inputs of man and crafts her own" > > If we had the Sutras of Organic Agriculture laid out before us, > the sutras that do not yet exist in print but do exist in the collective > brains banks of millions of farmers worldwide, the sutras crafted > from thousands of years indigenous knowledge-tribal agriculture > mixed with modern ecological agriculture insights from clairovoyants > like Steiner and humus farmers like Ehrenfried Pfeiffer, we could refer > to a simple parable-paragraph and understand all that is necessary. > > Like Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language" or Pantajali's > "Yoga Sutra's", you can spin a long story to support an individual > sutra. > > In the examples above, it helps to understand the framework > you are working with. > > The "scale" of production makes a huge impact on how you approach > the no-till and double-dig picture. > > Double digging is *very* labor intensive. While you are still > digging and digging and digging and digging to establish the > market garden, the season is passing by and you are still digging > instead of planting and weeding and harvesting and playing. > > The largest double-dug market garden I've seen in California is > a one-acre farm owned by white guy recognized for his organic produce. > However, the actual physical digging was done by a full-time Mexican > laborer. > > Alex MacGregor in Tennesse has a 6-acre biointensive market garden, > I'm think. I am very interested to visit this farm and get a good > picture how the actual labor and mechanics are worked out. > > On the other hand, no-till veggie production is still largely > dependent on at least a minimum of herbides at the commercial scale. > At the home gardening scale, it is no problem. > > You see, the paragraphs are spinning off and I've barely touched > on this subject. Thus, a sutra is all you need, but the explanation > goes on and on. > > Steve Diver > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 11:59:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23549 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA22578; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:48:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from onondaga.mohawk.net (root@onondaga.mohawk.net [204.60.69.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22192 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:46:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.60.69.144] (riga15.mohawk.net [204.60.69.144]) by onondaga.mohawk.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA27607; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:44:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:26:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org, csa-l@prairienet.org From: Thompson Subject: farm help needed Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 Farm help needed for 1999 season Still Point Community Farm is a small but rapidly expanding CSA located in Amenia NY, approximately 90 miles north of New York City. We recently completed our first year of operation, serving 32 shares over a 16-week season from 1 acre of vegetables. We are growing to 150 shares on 6 acres this coming year. The farm totals 80 acres, with approximately 25 tillable acres, and includes some of the best agricultural soils in our region. The farm is managed biodynamically, and is certified organic by NOFA-NY. We are looking for highly motivated individuals to work with the primary farmer in our diversified vegetable operation. Applicants should have previous farm experience and a strong interest in farming as a career. Ideally, applicants should have been through a well-structured apprenticeship program and be looking for a chance to put into practice the skills they obtained. We are looking for people who can work quickly and efficiently but also care about the quality of their experience. A high degree of responsibility will be given, and in exchange a high level of quality in work is expected. Experience with machinery and with livestock and crops other than vegetables is desirable. Tasks will include planting, cultivating, harvesting and washing, as well as interacting with community members on a weekly basis. We offer a stipend of $300 per month plus room and board. Living accomodations are in the family farmhouse, and all cooking and cleaning will be shared. We are a vegetarian household. This position is not an apprenticeship: a base level of knowledge about farming and physical work is assumed. We offer a chance to experience the complete life of a young biodynamic farm, and to participate in its growth. Long-term involvement with the community farm is possible, based on compatibility. If interested, please contact: Nathaniel Thompson RR 1 Box 136 Amenia, NY 12501 (914) 373-8010 email: farmernat@mohawk.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 12:05:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23782 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06069 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:59:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07503; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:50:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from onondaga.mohawk.net (root@onondaga.mohawk.net [204.60.69.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07395 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:49:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from [204.60.69.144] (riga15.mohawk.net [204.60.69.144]) by onondaga.mohawk.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA27607; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:44:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:26:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org, csa-l@prairienet.org From: Thompson Subject: farm help needed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 Farm help needed for 1999 season Still Point Community Farm is a small but rapidly expanding CSA located in Amenia NY, approximately 90 miles north of New York City. We recently completed our first year of operation, serving 32 shares over a 16-week season from 1 acre of vegetables. We are growing to 150 shares on 6 acres this coming year. The farm totals 80 acres, with approximately 25 tillable acres, and includes some of the best agricultural soils in our region. The farm is managed biodynamically, and is certified organic by NOFA-NY. We are looking for highly motivated individuals to work with the primary farmer in our diversified vegetable operation. Applicants should have previous farm experience and a strong interest in farming as a career. Ideally, applicants should have been through a well-structured apprenticeship program and be looking for a chance to put into practice the skills they obtained. We are looking for people who can work quickly and efficiently but also care about the quality of their experience. A high degree of responsibility will be given, and in exchange a high level of quality in work is expected. Experience with machinery and with livestock and crops other than vegetables is desirable. Tasks will include planting, cultivating, harvesting and washing, as well as interacting with community members on a weekly basis. We offer a stipend of $300 per month plus room and board. Living accomodations are in the family farmhouse, and all cooking and cleaning will be shared. We are a vegetarian household. This position is not an apprenticeship: a base level of knowledge about farming and physical work is assumed. We offer a chance to experience the complete life of a young biodynamic farm, and to participate in its growth. Long-term involvement with the community farm is possible, based on compatibility. If interested, please contact: Nathaniel Thompson RR 1 Box 136 Amenia, NY 12501 (914) 373-8010 email: farmernat@mohawk.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 12:15:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24203 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:15:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA24046; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:57:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23605 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:54:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.158] (pm3shep3-163-158.intrepid.net [209.190.163.158]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24488 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:57:14 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:54:04 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Bee Advice from Jim Jensen Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 Dear Starhawk, Welcome to the difficult world of beekeeping. Don't get discouraged, even "experts" are losing 30-50% of their hives. But it is important work we do, not only for the bees, but for the plants and ourselves. Since this was your first year, I hope you will contanct me for the Biodynamic Honeybee Symposium. In it, we have all sorts of info for the beginner. Jim Jensen @ bdnut@mindspring.com Reviewing your leter brought several issues to the forefront. 1st, the spring swarm may have signaled a weak colony. It may have swarmed because there was not enough space to express itself, or it may have been stressed by parasites or conditions in the hive. The swarming itself means the colony had fewer bees to work with. (ie stores eaten in august) Increasing space for spring build up is critical. Secondly, are you monitoring the hives thru the year for pests? You mention using an internet oil treatment. Was it effective? Which pests are you dealing with? Considering that the bees made it into winter but then died as a small clump I'd say they just couldn't cut it. To many problems of whatever nature and there are not enough bees for the organism to stay viable thru the winter stress. Good luck this year, give me a hollar if you want to talk bees, Jim Jensen Jim Jensen Atlanta, GA bdnut@mindspring.com The BioDynamic Honeybee Symposium A Quarterly forum for discussion of important topics. From beekeepers to beekeepers. Contact me for copies. >Hello Friends on Bd-Now, >I was hoping someone on the list would have some advice for Starhawk, who >recently started keeping bees. I told her to tell you all a little about >her situation and that maybe someone could help her! Thanks...Allan, can >you forward this to Jim Jenson? > >Many thanks, >Jane Sherry >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Greetings, biodynamic beekeepers. I'm a beginning beekeeper and my first >hive died. My neighbor and I, who share the hive, want to try again but >we're wondering where we went wrong. Here's some of the details--we got >the hive in March and they swarmed sometime in May. We took out one super >of honey in June. At that time they still had another super left--but we >were warned by neighbors that there isn't a lot of summer forage up here. >We're in Cazadero, California, back in the hills, so the main agriculture >is grapes. A lot of people have fruit trees so there's good spring forage, >but by midsummer all the wildflowers are gone, it's very hot and dry, and >only some garden flowers to feed from. In late August we thought we might >take some more honey--but when we checked they had eaten most of what was >there earlier. We've been doing the essential oil treatment that's been >circulating around on the internet, which involves feeding them with sugar >syrup laced with wintergreen oil and cakes of crisco, sugar and >wintergreen, so they had some of that available to them at all times. > >In the fall, the rosemary bloomed and they were all over big patches of it, >and seemed to be happily storing up more honey. We generally have fairly >mild winters--this year we had a patch of very warm weather in December and >then a sudden freeze when the temperature dropped in one night down way >below freezing. We hadn't closed off the entrance to the hive and we had a >couple of supers on it--anyway, we didn't check it for a few weeks as I was >out of the country, but when we did, the feeding jar had been knocked over >by raccoons and the bees were all dead, mostly in a ball huddled in the >center of the brood chamber, about five or six inches in diameter. We >looked for mites with a hand lens and didn't see any but we also weren't >exactly sure what we were looking for. Could they have frozen to death? >Should we have insulated the hive, or taken off the extra super? They did >have some honey left. Any advice or suggestions would b much appreciated. >Blessings to you all, Starhawk > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 12:17:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24262 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:16:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25906; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:06:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25230 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.27]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:07:14 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:06:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bee Advice from Jim Jensen Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 thanks for forwarding this on for me, Allan... I hope Star can participate in Jim's Symposium...I've sent her the response! best regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 12:47:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25319 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:47:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01694; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:36:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01428 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:35:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MbJk-0003tb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:38:21 -0800 Message-ID: <36ED451E.2C0A9A0A@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:36:30 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: flow form References: <002a01be6eff$99436800$f1f2facf@pavilion> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------FE7C8377D640D25A31917696" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 --------------FE7C8377D640D25A31917696 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank U for sharing this with us, Parker. All the best and: children's wisdom is worth the universe. Regards Ferdinand parker wrote: > List-All the talk was so fascinating awhile back on the flowforms > that I bought Schwenk's Sensitive Chaos. This book has only increased > my enthusiasm for flowing forms. Yesterday I was playing with the 4 > year old son of the man who owns the land I live on. There is a spring > which runs into a hand dug pond which flows into a shallow creek that > we run the water ram off of. I showed Ian a picture of the flow form > and suggested that we go down to the creek and experiment with > building a natural run with the rocks already living there. This > turned into an all afternoon project as Ian exclaimed again and again > "dis is wrere cool!, I felt exactly the same way as we worked our way > probably a quarter mile down the creek and built four, probably 40 ft > flowforms with the rocks along the sides of the creek. I wrestled with > the idea that I was changing the natural flow of the creek, but also > felt distinctly that the dry rocks from the side of the bed were > loving their new bath of water. We spent time after each construction > looking at the forms we built, sitting in the sun, and explaining to > Ian again and again why I didn't want to connect all the flow forms > together but leave large spaces for the creek to spend its life in its > natural state. He finally said to me, "The creek is happy". As good an > exclamation as could be. Parker -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. --------------FE7C8377D640D25A31917696 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank U for sharing this with us, Parker. All the best and: children's wisdom is worth the universe. Regards Ferdinand

parker wrote:

 List-All the talk was so fascinating awhile back on the flowforms that I bought Schwenk's Sensitive Chaos. This book has only increased my enthusiasm for flowing forms. Yesterday I was playing with the 4 year old son of the man who owns the land I live on. There is a spring which runs into a hand dug pond which flows into a shallow creek that we run the water ram off of. I showed Ian a picture of the flow form and suggested that we go down to the creek and experiment with building a natural run with the rocks already living there. This turned into an all afternoon project as Ian exclaimed again and again "dis is wrere cool!, I felt exactly the same way as we worked our way probably a quarter mile down the creek and built four, probably 40 ft flowforms with the rocks along the sides of the creek. I wrestled with the idea that I was changing the natural flow of the creek, but also felt distinctly that the dry rocks from the side of the bed were loving their new bath of water. We spent time after each construction looking at the forms we built, sitting in the sun, and explaining to Ian again and again why I didn't want to connect all the flow forms together but leave large spaces for the creek to spend its life in its natural state. He finally said to me, "The creek is happy". As good an exclamation as could be. Parker

--

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C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO
AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD
 FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY.
  --------------FE7C8377D640D25A31917696-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 13:03:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26064 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA05157; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:52:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04874 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:51:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MbYS-0000fU-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:53:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36ED48AB.801D690E@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:51:39 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: <12880E467AF2@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 Careful, careful, careful when rototilling. It can make a real mess depending what soil and cover crop you have. God, one year we rototilled one field and hit quack grass.......! YOu never see the end, really! I do not know whether the rototiller is a good thing as it upsets the ground in almost 'anywhichway' you are looking at it. Of course, rototillers can be attached to tractors or hand operated etc. and the speed can be varied. Vegetable growers can hardly do without but them, please spray VALERIAN immediately after use. Valerian is a soil-surface healer (unifyer) - a skin builder - and can help you to keep the etheric forces inside the soil. Regards Ferdinand "Anita Graf (Staff)" wrote: > Just realized that when I posted my last post on this topic that it > had already been well covered (pun?) beautifully and articulately by > Steve and others. It ain't easy keeping up with all the posts > sometimes! > > Anita > > > Jane Sherry wrote: > > > Hello Bd-Now friends, > > > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > > > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > > > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > > > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > > > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > > > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > > > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > > > seeds.) > > > > In permaculture, you'd find preference for the no-till method. > > In biointensive,you'd find preference for double-dig. > > In Fukuoka-style natural farming, you'd find preference for no-till. > > In Kyusei Nature Farming, you'd find preference for a mechanical spader. > > In market gardening, who has time to double-dig, or rely on > > comparatively more risky no-till. > > In truck farming, you'd find preference for mechanical tillage. > > In backyard gardening, you can do whatever you want. > > In biodynamics, you have a framework to interweave biological > > and dynamic practices to create a living dynamic force in the > > garden or farm so there is flexibility and adaptability to > > the whatever digging method works best for your particular > > situation, though incorporation of compost would be seen as > > a good soil management practice. > > > > "Nature bends and shapes the inputs of man and crafts her own" > > > > If we had the Sutras of Organic Agriculture laid out before us, > > the sutras that do not yet exist in print but do exist in the collective > > brains banks of millions of farmers worldwide, the sutras crafted > > from thousands of years indigenous knowledge-tribal agriculture > > mixed with modern ecological agriculture insights from clairovoyants > > like Steiner and humus farmers like Ehrenfried Pfeiffer, we could refer > > to a simple parable-paragraph and understand all that is necessary. > > > > Like Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language" or Pantajali's > > "Yoga Sutra's", you can spin a long story to support an individual > > sutra. > > > > In the examples above, it helps to understand the framework > > you are working with. > > > > The "scale" of production makes a huge impact on how you approach > > the no-till and double-dig picture. > > > > Double digging is *very* labor intensive. While you are still > > digging and digging and digging and digging to establish the > > market garden, the season is passing by and you are still digging > > instead of planting and weeding and harvesting and playing. > > > > The largest double-dug market garden I've seen in California is > > a one-acre farm owned by white guy recognized for his organic produce. > > However, the actual physical digging was done by a full-time Mexican > > laborer. > > > > Alex MacGregor in Tennesse has a 6-acre biointensive market garden, > > I'm think. I am very interested to visit this farm and get a good > > picture how the actual labor and mechanics are worked out. > > > > On the other hand, no-till veggie production is still largely > > dependent on at least a minimum of herbides at the commercial scale. > > At the home gardening scale, it is no problem. > > > > You see, the paragraphs are spinning off and I've barely touched > > on this subject. Thus, a sutra is all you need, but the explanation > > goes on and on. > > > > Steve Diver > > > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 14:16:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28597 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19547; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19298 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:04:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D1606@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:49 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:06:47 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:06:46 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:40 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: <36E96792.B80475D0@direct.ca> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 Hola Guillermo, I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, that is!). Hasta luego, Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 14:34:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28984 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23275; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:24:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22557 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:20:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D1AA1@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:23:16 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:23:14 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:23:08 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:23:01 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AE9C35341@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 oops, I didn't mean to send this out to everyone. I haven't asked Tom permission to spread his name around, so I would appreciate if everyone would bear this in mind. Thanks. Anita > Hola Guillermo, > > I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on > organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is > involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as > export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me > the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and > helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His > phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I > talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the > soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, > that is!). > > Hasta luego, > Anita > > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 14:28:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28832 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21946; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:17:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21432 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:15:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D193D@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:18:15 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:18:13 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:17:49 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:17:42 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: OFF: unable to receive/send mail Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36EA8C89.49E9AF66@direct.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AD30B0140@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 Ferdinand (and any others with this problem) May I suggest that you work on your response in word processing mode (ie not on e-mail) and when you are ready to post it, you can cut and paste it into e-mail (if you can print out the letters you want to respond to you could have them this way for reference. If don't have a printer, try cutting from e-mail and pasting into your word processor package and then start writing your answer underneith.) Since you often put a lot of time and effort into writing a long letter this could also save you time on the internet which you may be paying for by the minute. Just a suggestion. --Anita > The challenge is an additional one. I am trying to receive some 20 - 40 posts > and store them. Then, I go through them step by step and either discharge them > or answer. The answer I store in order to send it the next day - but what > really irks me is the fact that (at times) my system or the connection or > whatever breaks down and a long night's work is gone. Ferdinand > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > >Dear friends, > > > > > >Living in the boonies has its disadvantages, too. My server does not > > >have enough lines and I can only receive or send posts for about 4 - 5 > > >hours per night. So, if you do not hear from you that much any longer, > > >it is the server that has 'cut me out'. In the past I could 'digest' > > >posts on an ongoing basis. At the moment there is a line : user > > >relationship of 1:20 which is far too high. Regards Ferdinand > > > > Everyone: > > > > Many of us are faced with this problem. A remedy is on the horizon. Many of > > the national long distance companies are offering internet connections as > > part of your regular service. You might want to check in with AT&T or > > Sprint, and so on. > > > > -Allan Balliett > > igg@igg.com > > -- > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO > AN UNDERSTANDING > OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST > FOUNDATION, > A REGISTERED CHARITY. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 14:52:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29486 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:52:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA27010; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26655 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:40:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.178] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.178]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8N00GOWI749B@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:30:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:36:46 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <36DC2B91.4F09@xtra.co.nz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA26696 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 >>Hugh >> >>Thank you for your reply on organic chemistry. >> >>I appreciate CHO, sugars and fats etc are all products of living >>organisms. From your reply (and other thoughts), is it correct to >>conclude that all living organisms make use of and need nitrogen to >>exist? Naturally if it is not in the soil then it is easily extracted >>from the atmosphere. Even fungi and mosses in N depleted soils could get >>what they need from the air etc. So anyway is this an appropriate >>conclusion. >> >>Cheers >> >>Glen A. > >Glen, et. al., > >All living organisms need nitrogen to form amino acids and proteins. > >I believe there are algae as well as the whole Nitrobacteracea family that >can fix nitrogen from the air or from air dissolved in water. As well >nitrogen compounds develop in thunderstorms and snowstorms so there tends >to be an adequate nitrogen cycle if everything is working well enough. > >Best, >Hugh A small clarification: Different organisms vary enormously in their ability to synthesized aminoacids and in the forms of nitrogen used for this. Man can only make 50 % of the required aminoacids, the so called essential aminoacids, have to come from the diet. higher animals can use ammonium ions as the N source for making non essential aminoacids (AA), but they can not use nitrite, nitrate or atmospheric N. Higher plants are more versatile, they can make all their required AA and can use as N source ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. The legumininous plants, as you all know, through the N fixing bacteria in their root nodules are even capable to use atmospheric N, which they convert into ammonia. Microrganisms also vary a great deal in its ability to use and synthesize AA., some need enviroments rich in preformed AA, others, as above, can use the N available in the air. Hope this helps clarify things Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:00:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28597 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19547; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19298 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:04:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D1606@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:49 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:06:47 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:06:46 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:40 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: <36E96792.B80475D0@direct.ca> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 Hola Guillermo, I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, that is!). Hasta luego, Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:00:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28984 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23275; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:24:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22557 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:20:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D1AA1@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:23:16 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:23:14 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:23:08 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:23:01 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AE9C35341@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 oops, I didn't mean to send this out to everyone. I haven't asked Tom permission to spread his name around, so I would appreciate if everyone would bear this in mind. Thanks. Anita > Hola Guillermo, > > I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on > organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is > involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as > export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me > the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and > helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His > phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I > talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the > soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, > that is!). > > Hasta luego, > Anita > > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:00:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28832 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21946; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:17:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21432 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:15:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D193D@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:18:15 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:18:13 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:17:49 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:17:42 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: OFF: unable to receive/send mail Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36EA8C89.49E9AF66@direct.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AD30B0140@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 Ferdinand (and any others with this problem) May I suggest that you work on your response in word processing mode (ie not on e-mail) and when you are ready to post it, you can cut and paste it into e-mail (if you can print out the letters you want to respond to you could have them this way for reference. If don't have a printer, try cutting from e-mail and pasting into your word processor package and then start writing your answer underneith.) Since you often put a lot of time and effort into writing a long letter this could also save you time on the internet which you may be paying for by the minute. Just a suggestion. --Anita > The challenge is an additional one. I am trying to receive some 20 - 40 posts > and store them. Then, I go through them step by step and either discharge them > or answer. The answer I store in order to send it the next day - but what > really irks me is the fact that (at times) my system or the connection or > whatever breaks down and a long night's work is gone. Ferdinand > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > >Dear friends, > > > > > >Living in the boonies has its disadvantages, too. My server does not > > >have enough lines and I can only receive or send posts for about 4 - 5 > > >hours per night. So, if you do not hear from you that much any longer, > > >it is the server that has 'cut me out'. In the past I could 'digest' > > >posts on an ongoing basis. At the moment there is a line : user > > >relationship of 1:20 which is far too high. Regards Ferdinand > > > > Everyone: > > > > Many of us are faced with this problem. A remedy is on the horizon. Many of > > the national long distance companies are offering internet connections as > > part of your regular service. You might want to check in with AT&T or > > Sprint, and so on. > > > > -Allan Balliett > > igg@igg.com > > -- > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO > AN UNDERSTANDING > OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST > FOUNDATION, > A REGISTERED CHARITY. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:39:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29486 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:52:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA27010; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26655 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:40:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.178] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.178]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8N00GOWI749B@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:30:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:36:46 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <36DC2B91.4F09@xtra.co.nz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA26696 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 >>Hugh >> >>Thank you for your reply on organic chemistry. >> >>I appreciate CHO, sugars and fats etc are all products of living >>organisms. From your reply (and other thoughts), is it correct to >>conclude that all living organisms make use of and need nitrogen to >>exist? Naturally if it is not in the soil then it is easily extracted >>from the atmosphere. Even fungi and mosses in N depleted soils could get >>what they need from the air etc. So anyway is this an appropriate >>conclusion. >> >>Cheers >> >>Glen A. > >Glen, et. al., > >All living organisms need nitrogen to form amino acids and proteins. > >I believe there are algae as well as the whole Nitrobacteracea family that >can fix nitrogen from the air or from air dissolved in water. As well >nitrogen compounds develop in thunderstorms and snowstorms so there tends >to be an adequate nitrogen cycle if everything is working well enough. > >Best, >Hugh A small clarification: Different organisms vary enormously in their ability to synthesized aminoacids and in the forms of nitrogen used for this. Man can only make 50 % of the required aminoacids, the so called essential aminoacids, have to come from the diet. higher animals can use ammonium ions as the N source for making non essential aminoacids (AA), but they can not use nitrite, nitrate or atmospheric N. Higher plants are more versatile, they can make all their required AA and can use as N source ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. The legumininous plants, as you all know, through the N fixing bacteria in their root nodules are even capable to use atmospheric N, which they convert into ammonia. Microrganisms also vary a great deal in its ability to use and synthesize AA., some need enviroments rich in preformed AA, others, as above, can use the N available in the air. Hope this helps clarify things Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:45:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA01819 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:45:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06772; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:34:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06326 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:31:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.32] (pm3shep2-163-108.intrepid.net [209.190.163.108]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09732; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:34:22 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:36:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Al Kapuler replies "The impact of GMO's on our future" Cc: Jan Stettler Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 Dear Allan, I returned from three weeks in Belize to your communications. After reflecting on the issues which surface every time a new gene tech wonder development like tripling the amount of iron in rice by transferring the soybean ferritin gene to rice (latest issue of biotechnology) takes place, as well as some of the mindbending scenarios that I discussed like growing crops in the ocean, I'm glad to participate in the discussion of the consequences and impacts of our adventuring with genetic technologies and the biosphere. First thing that comes to me is that a significant part of my distrust of GMO's is that our government, and the USDA in particular, but certainly the FDA also, failed to protect our food system. The introduction of genetically modified soybeans, rape seed and corn and their derived food products into the mainstream food system of America and the world without extensive and thorough examination both of the foodstuffs and the impact on the environment (read this as biospheric ecosystems)and without proper and appropriate labelling is foolish, potentially dangerous, immoral. illicit and unacceptable. Now comes the harder issue; what to do with the truly out of control biotechnology industry. This dovetails with the process of turning the molecular biology of life into a cellular and molecular real estate business. While I am very glad to read that Tony Settler has understood what a marvelous future may be possible by developing new kinds of plants using transgenetic techniques and implementing concepts for non-violence into our lives as well as generating new kinds of diversity, the forces of greed, ignorance, arrogance, desire for power and control, all manifestations of distorted ego's and the lack of a healthy and direct connection to the basic divine fount of existence make these future potentialities difficult to implement. I keep remembering the slogans of my childhood "Better living thru chemistry", "Atoms for Peace", and the current cry of the local paperpulp industry "Dilution is the solution to pollution". Years ago in writing about Ecosanity, one of the prime tenets was that all industry and truly all endeavor must have a zero-sum cycle. That means no pollution. Totally clean cycles. And that we should fine and diminish all producers who pollute in proportion to their destructive forces. Thus the companies that have genetically polluted the food system need to be held responsible just like the chemical companies that have proliferated and distributed agricultural poisons need to be held responsible for the illnesses, species loss and ecodevastation that arises from the misuse of chemistry. The misuse of physics and mathematics has led to atomic pollution. The misuse of chemistry has led to a spectrum of pollutions. Now genetic technology is coming on with slogans and solutions, more food on less ground, more efficient production of carbonaceous material from sunlight, CO2 and water while the real issues are our lack of loving and heartfelt cooperation, lack of efficient and fair distribution of materials, insufficient vision of a interdependant and harmonious local and world society. So rather that being "stupidly reactionary", we have to take it as it comes, with a wholistic vision, an integrating understanding and a patience that transcends the hubris is small-time discoveries, fame and profit. Serving the collective wellbeing advances our souls. Best to you. Al Kapuler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 17:08:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04714 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:08:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20205; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:56:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (send205.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.129]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20065 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:56:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.205.40.10] by send205.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:00:48 PST Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:00:48 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 Hey all, it's easy to get into black and white thinking about tilling, but from my reading and experience, it seems that one method alone is not adequate. The rodales organic gardening book talks about the positive value of no-till for several years, but how eventually the soil needs aeration. How about the idea of monitoring the soil and tilling in OM after several years of no-till, when the soil could use the additioon of more air. Observatioon and real decisioon-making always beat the 'program' approach. That's why i monitor the BD list, because of the asstute observatioons! Bruce Ritchie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:22:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13575 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:22:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA23982; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:07:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23766 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:05:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-68.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.243] (may be forged)) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id UAA31976 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:08:26 -0600 Message-ID: <002801be6f62$d433df40$f3f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:04:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 Dear Alan- Thank-you so much for your two-cents, worth at least a dime. I think you are maybe right about the single dig. patience is a virtue. Those damn tools are enough to make anyone gung-ho. We burned yesterday and today and it seemed to be the perfect time, a nice little mossy mat protected the soil, and the deer trail and our own breaks made beautiful contours in the garden which I will leave for the paths. I will stick that big dog of a tool down in there a couple times to see what's what, but the potato fork should turn it, you're right it seems pretty loose underneath, crossing my fingers about the rocks. I was working at Coulee Springs Farm in Sparta WI last season and we were purely old fashion tractor and rototiller. I wanted to make some double dug beds, but my mentor pleaded no time. I was completely unimpressed with the soil structure there. It was a beginning BD farm, but a CSA for 6 years. Blevins sounds like a thoughtful, patient man. My friend has an Italian spader that I will check out this season, but what is everyone going to do when the fossil fuel runs out. There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! Parker -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 6:27 AM Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging >>I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different for >>different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD CSA >>farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that >>double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. > >Parker - was this a start-up CSA? Were these initial double-digs, or what >was happening at this BD CSA? (remind me: which BD CSA is this?) > >But maybe the solution >>is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. > >Like a growing number of BD growers, Bruce Blevins is a champion of the >Italian machines. (NOT the Dutch machines) His motto: when you bring the >tractor into the garden your main plan has to be how to get the tractor >back out of the garden. I believe he plans for three spadings in a two >season period. And then it's U-bars from then on. > >>Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple >>more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three years >>ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year my >>partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. > >IMHO, If you are planning initial digs with u-bars, either you don't really >need double- digging, ie your soil is very loose already, or you are going >to have a couple of broken u-bars or you just plain aint going to make it. >If time is of the essence, a single dig the first year, with good deep >rooting cover crops over the winter (and daikon whenever possible otherwise >:-), and a double dig the following spring, would seem like a good plan. > >The real Steve Moore, at Wilson College in Chambersburg PA, is a certified >John Jeavons instructor and takes a very s-l-o-w approach to that two foot >deep bed. He says that you should enjoy repeatedly discovering how much of >your double digging the plants do for you....over the seasons as you dig >and re-dig your bed. > >Your idea of 'volunteer beds' is rather exciting! > >Just my two-cents, > >Allan Balliett >BIODYNAMICS Now! >POB 3047 >Shepherdstown, WV >25443 >(304) 876-2373 >(815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding << Please note the new fax number!! >> > > >=================================================================== > >SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! > Know the latest releases!! > Get the BEST prices!! > > >TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L > You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the >message > >New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ > >CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net > >Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! > >http://www.igg.com > >=================================================================== >How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html >How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html >=================================================================== >INTERGALACTIC GARAGE >Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles >110 West German Street >POB 3047 >Shepherdstown, WV 25443 >(304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX >Email = igg@igg.com >HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:31:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13873 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:31:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25148; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:19:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24907 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:17:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.186]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990316022017.NYTX682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:20:17 +1300 Message-ID: <36EDC01B.4FAE@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:21:15 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 References: <36DC2B91.4F09@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 > Different organisms vary enormously in their ability to synthesized aminoacids and in the forms of nitrogen used for this. Man can only make 50 % of the required aminoacids, the so called essential aminoacids, have to come from the diet. > > higher animals can use ammonium ions as the N source for making non essential aminoacids (AA), but they can not use nitrite, nitrate or atmospheric N. Higher plants are more versatile, they can make all their required AA and can use as N source ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. The legumininous plants, as you all know, through the N fixing bacteria in their root nodules are even capable to use atmospheric N, which they convert into ammonia. > > Microrganisms also vary a great deal in its ability to use and synthesize AA., some need enviroments rich in preformed AA, others, as above, can use the N available in the air. > > Hope this helps clarify things > > Guillermo Romero I. > Comala, Colima, MEXICO > Thank you for this GR I am left with the question. We have it stated that plants do not incarnate the Astrality and that it hovers above the plant slightly impressing itself upon the forces moving upwards, and only rarely entering deeply into plants to produce poisons. Yet we have statements in lecture 3 saying how the Astrality is carried by nitrogen and where nitrogen goes so the Astrality follows. And that nitrogen is of central importance for the distribution of the etheric, And then statements above that nitrogen is necessary in just about all plant growth and the paths of nitrogen can be seen through out all the plant, yet we are saying that the astrality does not follow it into plants. So what is the nature of this nitrogen and its relationship to the astrality? Is it possible that Just as we have living and dead nitrogen, do we have a bound and free Astrality? And that while we can talk of the Astral body not incarnating ( free astrality) do we have a situation such as expressed in the 0-7 year old or 7-14 year old where we can say that the astral body has not fully incarnated ( to become bound astrality) however it does impress itself upon the life form enough for organ formation and sentient life to manifest in the young child, or in our case the pre-flowering plant? cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:37:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14011 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:37:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25928; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:25:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA25878 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:25:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10MjZr-0000hE-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:27:31 -0800 Message-ID: <36EDC11D.E7308798@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:25:33 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies "The impact of GMO's on our future" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 Dear Al, Are you saying that we should wait and see and not do anything but behave like sheep? Or WHAT is your course of action here? Do you have any PRACTICAL SUGGESTIONS such as: 1. 2. 3. 4. etc. I am interested. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > speaks!! He's offering to 'dialogue' with us on this topic. Please don't > hesitate to speak up - or out, on this issue, given this opportunity. > -Allan Balliett, moderator, BD Now! > > > Dear Allan, > I returned from three weeks in Belize to your communications. After > reflecting on the issues which surface every time a new gene tech wonder > development like tripling the amount of iron in rice by transferring the > soybean ferritin gene to rice (latest issue of biotechnology) takes place, > as well as some of the mindbending scenarios that I discussed like growing > crops in the ocean, I'm glad to participate in the discussion of the > consequences and impacts of our adventuring with genetic technologies and > the biosphere. > First thing that comes to me is that a significant part of my > distrust of GMO's is that our government, and the USDA in particular, but > certainly the FDA also, failed to protect our food system. > The introduction of genetically modified soybeans, rape seed and corn and > their derived food products into the mainstream food system of America and > the world without extensive and thorough examination both of the foodstuffs > and the impact on the environment (read this as biospheric ecosystems)and > without proper and appropriate labelling is foolish, potentially dangerous, > immoral. illicit and unacceptable. > Now comes the harder issue; what to do with the truly out of > control biotechnology industry. > This dovetails with the process of turning the molecular biology of life > into a cellular and molecular real estate business. > While I am very glad to read that Tony Settler has understood what > a marvelous future may be possible by developing new kinds of plants using > transgenetic techniques and implementing concepts for non-violence into our > lives as well as generating new kinds of diversity, the forces of greed, > ignorance, arrogance, desire for power and control, all manifestations of > distorted ego's and the lack of a healthy and direct connection to the > basic divine fount of existence make these future potentialities difficult > to implement. > I keep remembering the slogans of my childhood "Better living thru > chemistry", "Atoms for Peace", and the current cry of the local paperpulp > industry "Dilution is the solution to pollution". > Years ago in writing about Ecosanity, one of the prime tenets was > that all industry and truly all endeavor must have a zero-sum cycle. That > means no pollution. Totally clean cycles. And that we should fine and > diminish all producers who pollute in proportion to their destructive > forces. Thus the companies that have genetically polluted the food system > need to be held responsible just like the chemical companies that have > proliferated and distributed agricultural poisons need to be held > responsible for the illnesses, species loss and ecodevastation that arises > from the misuse of chemistry. > The misuse of physics and mathematics has led to atomic pollution. > The misuse of chemistry has led to a spectrum of pollutions. > Now genetic technology is coming on with slogans and solutions, > more food on less ground, more efficient production of carbonaceous > material from sunlight, CO2 and water while the real issues are our lack of > loving and heartfelt cooperation, lack of efficient and fair distribution > of materials, insufficient vision of a interdependant and harmonious local > and world society. > So rather that being "stupidly reactionary", we have to take it as > it comes, with a wholistic vision, an integrating understanding and a > patience that transcends the hubris is small-time discoveries, fame and > profit. Serving the collective wellbeing advances our souls. > Best to you. > Al Kapuler -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:48:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14386 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA27324; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:37:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27204 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:36:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Mjkz-0004H8-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:39:01 -0800 Message-ID: <36EDC3BE.EA7ADA05@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:36:46 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 Dear Bruce, If I was I weather forteller...... and here comes another challenge. Last year we double tilled in our garden and raised our beds with this method. And, my golly, we had the dryest year ever. No rain for 5 months. You should have seen the desert. So, really, double digging aereates the soil too and can cause the loss of a lot of moisture. Perhaps, this year we will simply turn the soil over, keep the beds low (but, what do you see in store for the Pacific Northwest?) Lots of rain or what? Kind regards Ferdinand bruce ritchie wrote: > Hey all, > it's easy to get into black and white thinking about tilling, > but from my reading and experience, it seems that one method alone is > not adequate. The rodales organic gardening book talks about the > positive value of no-till for several years, but how eventually the > soil needs aeration. How about the idea of monitoring the soil and > tilling in OM after several years of no-till, when the soil could use > the additioon of more air. Observatioon and real decisioon-making > always beat the 'program' approach. That's why i monitor the BD list, > because of the asstute observatioons! Bruce Ritchie > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:52:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14483 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:52:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA27716; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:40:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27363 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:38:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-4.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.36]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id SAA21491 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:40:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990315185644.00930eb0@mail.kootenay.com> Message-Id: <4.1.19990315185644.00930eb0@mail.kootenay.com> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:20:36 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies: Hey Steven! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 Steve McFadden and all... Well, this from Al Kapuler just in time for your new moon deadline...what a beautiful exposition. I've hesitated to add to this GEO Consensus thread myself because: 1) the whole thing just makes me spittin' mad; 2) I don't have the credentials or background to articulate the reasons that I KNOW GE is a terrible mistake, a crime against humanity and the Planet. What I do want to add is a personal note to Rob Johnson of Johnny's Selected Seeds; it was his stance on GE seeds that got us going on this thread in the first place. Dear Rob: I've purchased seed from Johnny's for more than a decade now, sometimes a considerable amount, at least by a small-time gardener's standards. I always looked forward to getting your catalog, to see the newest photo of you and your employee gang. I was always impressed that your Maine growout/research farm was certified organic, and like many of us I figured most if not all your seeds were organic. The last few years you've had a little article in the catalog titled "Organic Growing at Johnny's" which has been a bit of a waffle job: Yes, you say, your farm is certified organic, but then you say "...we strive to supply seeds grown with minimal pesticide use" and "...organic does not necessarily mean 'good'" and so on... clearly stating between the lines that your commitment is not total. Now you're waffling bigtime on genetic engineering. It's been said here on the BDNOW! List that you can't control your suppliers' methods or seed sources. OK. But it smells like a sellout to me and you''ve lost me as a customer. You see, Rob, there are other seed growers who don't abandon their ideals in the face of what Al Kapular calls "...foolish, potentially dangerous, immoral. illicit and unacceptable..." growing and business practices. So long, Rob, Woody Wodraska From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 22:25:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15428 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:25:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA00827; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:13:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00788 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MkKZ-00075L-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:15:48 -0800 Message-ID: <36EDCC5B.DB1078FB@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:13:31 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: <002801be6f62$d433df40$f3f2facf@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 Dear Parker, When I was a kid we burned, burned, burned in the garden. Baby Burn, was the call..... My mother (there she is running again) came out all the time and doused the fire. Stop, stop, stop was her war cry. Why? We were asked to make a study (1955!) and first, we had to smell the air. Atrocious.Then, we had to look at the carbon build up. She told us it will remain so for thousands of years and deplete the soil of nutrients. I had no clue what that meant. Then, we looked at a half burned hedge hog which looked dreadful and we had to kill it........(never a fire anymore, I thought). And she pointed out that the small garden life (biobalance she said) woule be upset. We looked at the water which was as gray as can be. Sticks did not burn properly and could not be used any longer. Entire bug schools got roasted. The frogs that made it out of the moss were blown up by the heat. It was a real lesson. And so, she said: All goes onto the compost. Again 1955 and BD!! Nothing will be burned, nothing. That's my story, my friend. And, one more thing. I don't think that fossil fuel will run out - we are going to run out of other things first: (again Mama) God had a reason to keep that oil far below us, it is the blood of the earth, she said. A lot of it. More than you can ever think of. Blood is a very, very special juice and nobody drinks it without getting punished (and bang, there went another moskito....). Regards Ferdinand parker wrote: > Dear Alan- > Thank-you so much for your two-cents, worth at least a dime. I think you are > maybe right about the single dig. patience is a virtue. Those damn tools are > enough to make anyone gung-ho. We burned yesterday and today and it seemed > to be the perfect time, a nice little mossy mat protected the soil, and the > deer trail and our own breaks made beautiful contours in the garden which I > will leave for the paths. I will stick that big dog of a tool down in there > a couple times to see what's what, but the potato fork should turn it, > you're right it seems pretty loose underneath, crossing my fingers about the > rocks. > I was working at Coulee Springs Farm in Sparta WI last season and we > were purely old fashion tractor and rototiller. I wanted to make some double > dug beds, but my mentor pleaded no time. I was completely unimpressed with > the soil structure there. It was a beginning BD farm, but a CSA for 6 years. > Blevins sounds like a thoughtful, patient man. My friend has an Italian > spader that I will check out this season, but what is everyone going to do > when the fossil fuel runs out. > There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference > selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! > Parker > -----Original Message----- > From: Intergalactic Garage > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 6:27 AM > Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging > > >>I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different > for > >>different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD > CSA > >>farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that > >>double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. > > > >Parker - was this a start-up CSA? Were these initial double-digs, or what > >was happening at this BD CSA? (remind me: which BD CSA is this?) > > > >But maybe the solution > >>is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. > > > >Like a growing number of BD growers, Bruce Blevins is a champion of the > >Italian machines. (NOT the Dutch machines) His motto: when you bring the > >tractor into the garden your main plan has to be how to get the tractor > >back out of the garden. I believe he plans for three spadings in a two > >season period. And then it's U-bars from then on. > > > >>Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple > >>more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three > years > >>ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year > my > >>partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. > > > >IMHO, If you are planning initial digs with u-bars, either you don't really > >need double- digging, ie your soil is very loose already, or you are going > >to have a couple of broken u-bars or you just plain aint going to make it. > >If time is of the essence, a single dig the first year, with good deep > >rooting cover crops over the winter (and daikon whenever possible otherwise > >:-), and a double dig the following spring, would seem like a good plan. > > > >The real Steve Moore, at Wilson College in Chambersburg PA, is a certified > >John Jeavons instructor and takes a very s-l-o-w approach to that two foot > >deep bed. He says that you should enjoy repeatedly discovering how much of > >your double digging the plants do for you....over the seasons as you dig > >and re-dig your bed. > > > >Your idea of 'volunteer beds' is rather exciting! > > > >Just my two-cents, > > > >Allan Balliett > >BIODYNAMICS Now! > >POB 3047 > >Shepherdstown, WV > >25443 > >(304) 876-2373 > >(815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding << Please note the new fax number!! >> > > > > > >=================================================================== > > > >SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! > > Know the latest releases!! > > Get the BEST prices!! > > > > > >TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L > > You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the > >message > > > >New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L > > > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^ > > > >CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net > > > >Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! > > > >http://www.igg.com > > > >=================================================================== > >How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html > >How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html > >=================================================================== > >INTERGALACTIC GARAGE > >Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles > >110 West German Street > >POB 3047 > >Shepherdstown, WV 25443 > >(304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX > >Email = igg@igg.com > >HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 22:49:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA16185 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:49:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA03474; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:37:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03087 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:34:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA09006 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:36:55 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6F2A.B1EF1D60@FLYLO>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:27:57 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6F2A.B1EF1D60@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: No till versus Double Digging Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:22:53 -0600 Encoding: 21 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 I'm already seeing some good examples in a variety of 'patches' around our place. John turned soil several times, and mounded it up into some 'artistic' raised beds. Looks like fine dark loam. I waited awhile and covered it all with spent hay till I was ready to plant in it. I started cabbages and some cutting lettuce and when they were big enough, went out to those beds. But, I had some leftover seedlings I didn't want to waste. So, kind of 'stepped down' in the area beyond the path around the raised beds, I just dug a little hole for each, patted it in, and was careful not to step on them till they took off. With the rains we had last couple of days, raised beds still look dry but the plants they look down on are quite a bit bigger. Granted, if we're going to have a wet year, the things with their feet high and dry stand a better chance, but we've had too many dry summers lately, I'm betting on the flatlander plants doing best this year. In order to keep the ryegrass and early weed crop down, I have been using my old hand sheep shears to 'prune' around the vegetables. Works if I don't want to disturb the feeder roots on the plants I'm trying to get going. These shears really sing while they work but I still wouldn't want to do 50 acre patches with them. The early results of my experiment are we have fairly fertile soil, but it's not nearly as 'deep' as I once supposed. Even turning 4 inches upside down has set the plants back considerably. (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 23:15:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16958 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA06059; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05769 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:01:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13063 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:04:20 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6F2E.869A7200@FLYLO>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:55:23 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6F2E.869A7200@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Al Kapuler Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:54:24 -0600 Encoding: 3 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 Afraid I don't have much dialog on the topic of A Kapuler, but I'd love to know more about his trip to Belize. One of my favorite places on Earth! Lived there for quite awhile (pre-goats) of course! (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 00:52:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA19934 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:52:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA14688; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:34:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14586 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:32:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 208.254.229.171 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:34:33 -0800 Message-ID: <003401be6f6e$483a0440$11242599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:31:44 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 Dear Colleagues, During the last few years, like many of you, I have been following with grave interest the of GMO's and related biotechnologies. With great concern I have watched the commercialization of insufficiently tested organisms enter the food stream. And I have been applauding the many efforts underway to develop comprehensive testing, manditory labeling, public debate and accountability. May they all succeed! I am also doing my part by making every effort to educate the 250 or so students I teach every semester as to the history, development and current issues surrounding the biotech field. This in itself is no easy task, as the waters are at best muddy. And in our gardens both on the home farm and at the college's farm, we use seeds from only the most carefully selected, at minimum organically certified and almost exclusively from small companies. We make every human effort to use simple, clean plant products. One of the additional questions I carry in all this is what does all this GMO stuff mean spiritually? In other words: what does this biotechnology really mean for the long-term soul and spiritual well-being of humanity? One of the things I have noticed, with all the chemical, genetic, and now biotech interventions, is that they are trying to the secrets of birth and life, maturity and death. Trying to figure them out. Said differently: there seems to be a searching, a kind of tapping in the dark around the great secrets of life, that is . How does life enter into the physical? How is it organized? Can we change it and if so what does this do? This far from being unsophisticated, is however, completely materialistic and mechanical. It is an attempt to something that essentially is not. There is a matrix, a physical-spiritual matrix that allows for the spiritual to enter into the physical. Where the two meet we have life. It is my view, that all this biotech tapping in the dark is designed for much more than merely monopolizing a given cultural plants' gene pool or making huge sums of money - I suspect it has also much to do with discovering the means by which to create life force. Interestingly, I think this has so very much to do with biodynamics. We too are working with the life forces. We too are trying to discover how to at least encourage and work with the life forces and the beings that weave them. Our means of course, are quite different. Just some thoughts Warm regards, Andrew From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 01:16:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA20645 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA16881; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:05:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from marine.sonic.net (marine.sonic.net [208.201.224.37]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA16691 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5216 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 06:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sub.sonic.net) (208.201.224.8) by marine.sonic.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 06:05:54 -0000 Received: from jalang (d208.pm6.sonic.net [208.201.229.208]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA04597 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:05:53 -0800 X-envelope-info: From: "James Langbecker" To: Subject: RE: No till versus Double Digging Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:04:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be6f72$de26eb40$d0e5c9d0@jalang.ppp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <002801be6f62$d433df40$f3f2facf@pavilion> Importance: Normal Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 > There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference > selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! > Parker This possibility really gives new meaning to the saying, "Make hay while the sun shines," doesn't it? James From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 05:00:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA25560 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA01583; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:50:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp3.hawaii.rr.com (smtp3.hawaii.rr.com [204.210.97.13]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA01494 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:48:55 -0500 (EST) Received: apparently from phyl.hawaii.rr.com - 24.94.65.129 by smtp3.hawaii.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:48:09 -1000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19691231140000.0104d614@pop-server> X-Sender: pdwyer@pop-server X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:51:36 -1000 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Phyl Dwyer Subject: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 March 15, 1999 - Hawaii Dear Friends, Does anyone have suggestions about how to salvage a rather funky situation for a special little heifer calf (almost eight weeks old, born 1/19/99) that was taken from its mother immediately after birth and stuffed in a cage in a bank of cages along with hundreds of other calves? She did not fair well with the "bucket" drink it or "the hell with you" approach of the dairy industry and is some what set back in her body weight and development. We've taken her to our farm and are using what seems to be our only option - a milk substitute powder. She was actually nearly born in a better situation. Her mother was naturally bred and pastured during her pregnancy, but was purchased into another dairy as part of a buy out that just happened to coincide with her birth. Any suggestions that might help Monique, "Little Mo", in her journey toward adulthood would be greatly appreciated, especially a source for more organic or BD milk substitutes, etc. Thanks so much, Phyl Dwyer - Proud, but desperate new Dad! pdwyer@hawaii.rr.com =================================================== Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address =================================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 06:19:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27085 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:19:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA05161; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:08:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA05083 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:07:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp333.cy-net.net [208.21.195.142]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA06990 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:09:36 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6F69.EF700DE0@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:00:39 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6F69.EF700DE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:58:13 -0600 Encoding: 21 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 Hi Phyl; Is Mo drinking at all? There are large calf bottles the 'industry' likes to use, hang them on the cage front and the calf tries to pretend this is Mother. Whole milk would be wonderful, goat even better in this instance, but barring that, you can raise her on the powder crap. Look for a brand that uses milk solids rather than the soya bases, and if she's scouring, dilute the formula a little with extra water. Add honey to it or even some syrup (karo) will give her a little extra energy. If you can handle her at all, try tucking the bottle under your arm so she feels a warm body next to her milk source. Another trick in the bucket method is to let her nurse your fingers, and gradually lower them into the milk. She is chasing the fingers and learns to slurp up the milk around them. This is somewhat tricky, because weaning her OFF fingers and onto the bucket of milk only can be tough. Keep the milk or milk sub slightly warmer than you think is right will often encourage a weak or stubborn calf to nurse, too. A lot of times the dairies just keep cold replacer in front of the calves and some calves will starve themselves before going for it. She's old enough to pick at fine, leafy hay, but I'd try to get her milk stomach on track before developing her rumen. (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 07:28:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA28390 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA11814; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:17:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA11745 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:16:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.55]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:01:00 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990316015544.007e9100@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:55:44 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging In-Reply-To: <002801be6f62$d433df40$f3f2facf@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 >My friend has an Italian >spader that I will check out this season, but what is everyone going to do >when the fossil fuel runs out. > There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference >selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! >Parker What about horse, oxen and ploughs? I especially like the spiral ploughs that are described in "living Energies". One of the ploughs was designed to replicate the action of the mole, it is shaped out of opposing spiral knife-edged flutes of silver-plated copper. The other plough is somewhat like a those spiral pasta in shape and has a series of these spirals that roll through the soil. Kindly, Conrad =-= =-= =-= =-= =-= =-= "giv 'er nails" -Saskatchewan slang From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 07:51:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA28973 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:51:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA14359; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:40:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA13992 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-13.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.188] (may be forged)) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id GAA08149 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:41:11 -0600 Message-ID: <001601be6fbb$38dfa160$bcf2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:40:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 Dear Ferdinand- Sorry you had such an awful experience with the burning. Ours here went well, we burned just after the last melting so it was slow and only burned top, not disturbing the mossy layer protecting the soil. From what I have seen around here, burning that initial time( I wouldn't do this again) has produced some incredibly fertile gardens. Unfortunately we probably did kill some beneficial bugs, but if you would have seen this burn, 4 hours for a quarter acre, I believe you would have felt little heat. Our most abundant beneficial bug here is the dragonfly who is morphing in the creek bed right now. We saved the worms. As far as the fossil fuels, I beg to differ on that one, but we shall see my friend. Parker -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 7:18 PM Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging >Dear Parker, >When I was a kid we burned, burned, burned in the garden. Baby Burn, was the >call..... My mother (there she is running again) came out all the time and >doused the fire. Stop, stop, stop was her war cry. Why? > >We were asked to make a study (1955!) and first, we had to smell the air. >Atrocious.Then, we had to look at the carbon build up. She told us it will >remain so for thousands of years and deplete the soil of nutrients. I had no >clue what that meant. Then, we looked at a half burned hedge hog which looked >dreadful and we had to kill it........(never a fire anymore, I thought). And she >pointed out that the small garden life (biobalance she said) woule be upset. We >looked at the water which was as gray as can be. Sticks did not burn properly >and could not be used any longer. Entire bug schools got roasted. The frogs that >made it out of the moss were blown up by the heat. It was a real lesson. And so, >she said: All goes onto the compost. Again 1955 and BD!! Nothing will be burned, >nothing. That's my story, my friend. > >And, one more thing. I don't think that fossil fuel will run out - we are going >to run out of other things first: (again Mama) God had a reason to keep that oil >far below us, it is the blood of the earth, she said. A lot of it. More than you >can ever think of. Blood is a very, very special juice and nobody drinks it >without getting punished (and bang, there went another moskito....). Regards >Ferdinand > >parker wrote: > >> Dear Alan- >> Thank-you so much for your two-cents, worth at least a dime. I think you are >> maybe right about the single dig. patience is a virtue. Those damn tools are >> enough to make anyone gung-ho. We burned yesterday and today and it seemed >> to be the perfect time, a nice little mossy mat protected the soil, and the >> deer trail and our own breaks made beautiful contours in the garden which I >> will leave for the paths. I will stick that big dog of a tool down in there >> a couple times to see what's what, but the potato fork should turn it, >> you're right it seems pretty loose underneath, crossing my fingers about the >> rocks. >> I was working at Coulee Springs Farm in Sparta WI last season and we >> were purely old fashion tractor and rototiller. I wanted to make some double >> dug beds, but my mentor pleaded no time. I was completely unimpressed with >> the soil structure there. It was a beginning BD farm, but a CSA for 6 years. >> Blevins sounds like a thoughtful, patient man. My friend has an Italian >> spader that I will check out this season, but what is everyone going to do >> when the fossil fuel runs out. >> There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference >> selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! >> Parker >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Intergalactic Garage >> To: bdnow@envirolink.org >> Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 6:27 AM >> Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging >> >> >>I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different >> for >> >>different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD >> CSA >> >>farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that >> >>double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. >> > >> >Parker - was this a start-up CSA? Were these initial double-digs, or what >> >was happening at this BD CSA? (remind me: which BD CSA is this?) >> > >> >But maybe the solution >> >>is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. >> > >> >Like a growing number of BD growers, Bruce Blevins is a champion of the >> >Italian machines. (NOT the Dutch machines) His motto: when you bring the >> >tractor into the garden your main plan has to be how to get the tractor >> >back out of the garden. I believe he plans for three spadings in a two >> >season period. And then it's U-bars from then on. >> > >> >>Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple >> >>more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three >> years >> >>ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year >> my >> >>partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. >> > >> >IMHO, If you are planning initial digs with u-bars, either you don't really >> >need double- digging, ie your soil is very loose already, or you are going >> >to have a couple of broken u-bars or you just plain aint going to make it. >> >If time is of the essence, a single dig the first year, with good deep >> >rooting cover crops over the winter (and daikon whenever possible otherwise >> >:-), and a double dig the following spring, would seem like a good plan. >> > >> >The real Steve Moore, at Wilson College in Chambersburg PA, is a certified >> >John Jeavons instructor and takes a very s-l-o-w approach to that two foot >> >deep bed. He says that you should enjoy repeatedly discovering how much of >> >your double digging the plants do for you....over the seasons as you dig >> >and re-dig your bed. >> > >> >Your idea of 'volunteer beds' is rather exciting! >> > >> >Just my two-cents, >> > >> >Allan Balliett >> >BIODYNAMICS Now! >> >POB 3047 >> >Shepherdstown, WV >> >25443 >> >(304) 876-2373 >> >(815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding << Please note the new fax number!! >> >> > >> > >> >=================================================================== >> > >> >SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! >> > Know the latest releases!! >> > Get the BEST prices!! >> > >> > >> >TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L >> > You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the >> >message >> > >> >New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L >> > >> >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> ^^^ >> > >> >CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net >> > >> >Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! >> > >> >http://www.igg.com >> > >> >=================================================================== >> >How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html >> >How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html >> >=================================================================== >> >INTERGALACTIC GARAGE >> >Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles >> >110 West German Street >> >POB 3047 >> >Shepherdstown, WV 25443 >> >(304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX >> >Email = igg@igg.com >> >HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com >> > > >-- > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO >AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD > > FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 09:22:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01380 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:22:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA26090; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:11:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA25953 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:09:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-143.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.143]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA14995 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:12:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36EE6645.CF2@ipa.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:10:13 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Imants spader plow->Humus Management Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 BD-NOW Readers, The original thread was No till versus Double digging. In the ensuing discussion, mechanical spaders were mentioned as viable implements at the commercial scale. The following notes on spading implements and humus management is a post I put up on Sanet a couple of weeks ago, which I think you may find useful.... ESPECIALLY since BIODYNAMICS (like any worthwhile organic agriculture system) can also be understood as a HUMUS MANAGEMENT farming system. In other words, where the rubber meets the road, you had better take care of soil humus and all that is associated with that conceptually (deep humus) as well as pragmatically (soil microbes, worms, clay-humus crumb, soil foodweb) or you will end up with a hole in your soil bank, leaking valuable assets to service monthly bills at the front end while falling into a downward spiral of weakened soil health & plant immunity at the tail end. Food for Worms, Steve Diver ======================================================= Sanet Archives Re: Imants spade plow->Humus Management Steve Diver (steved@ncatark.uark.edu) Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:41:43 +0000 Victoria Mundy wrote: > Does anyone have information on the "Imants spade plow"? I've looked on >the databases and can't seem to come up with anything. Ditto a >simple Web search. > > Also, I'm trying to find contact information for a gentleman named >Carroll Montgomery, who is, or at least was in 1994, an agricultural >consultant with the Christian Agriculture Stewardship Institute> > > Any help would be appreciated. Thank you! > > Victoria Mundy Hi Victoria, Here are contacts the main spader dealers in the U.S. (I will gladly take contacts for other dealers if anybody has any): Autrusa Compost/Imants U.S.A. [George Leidig] P.O. Box 1133 Blue Bell, PA 19422 610-825-2973 autrusa@aol.com http://www.autrusa.com ----U.S. distributor for Imants Spaders, Sandberger Compost Turners, ----and Top Tex Compost Fleece Imants web site in The Netherlands http://www.imants.com/ Market Farm Implements [Ralph Moore] 257 Fawn Hollow Road Friedans, PA 15541 814-443-1931 ----Distributor for multiple brands of spaders and market ----garden/truck farming vegetable production implements Ferrari Tractor C.I.E. [Eugene Canales] PO Box 1045 Gridley, CA 95948 916-846-6401 916-846-0390 Fax ----U.S. distributor for Celli, Torteli, etc brands of European ----spaders. Ferrari Tractor C.I.E. -- like its counterpart Market ----Farm Implements on the East -- carries a wide assortment of ----small-farm equipment. Spaders available as attachments to ----walk-behind tractors or regular pull-type tractors. Here is the contact for Carroll Montgomery and Christian Agriculture Stewardship Institute (CASI): Christian Agriculture Stewardship Institute (CASI) Rt. 1, Box 364 Dexter, MO 63841 314-624-3709 314-624-4391 Fax CASI Publications: "God's Stewards... Caring for His Soil" "Alternatives for American Agriculture: CASI Soil Analysis Training" "Alternatives That Few Consider" "Why We Do Have Weeds and Grass" Soil management tidbits, a spader story: Fyi, at the 1995 Acres USA conference there was an interesting presentation by M.R. Foulks, who is the largest organic soybean grower in Virginia. He discussed his organic production system, and presented data on soil health improvements through the adaption of innovative soil management practices. The Foulks had attended some of the controlled microbial composting and humus management practices taught in seminars in Pennsylvania by the Siegfried Luebke family of Austria, hosted by George Liedig of Autrusa Compost. The CMC Compost-Humus Mgm't System emphasizes specialized compost turners, microbial inoculation, clay additions, frequent turning, daily monitoring for temperature and CO2, compost fleece to cover and protect the windrow, and qualitative testing for finished compost. Promotion of clay-humus crumb formation and a microbially-rich compost is a primary goal. Coupled with CMC compost, emphasis is placed at the farm level on a whole series of well-known organic agricultural practices that promote soil health, soil humus, soil biology, soil tilth, soil fertility etc. These include crop rotations, cover crops, green manures, microbially-inoculated composts, sod rotations mixed with crop rotations, grazing, urine, etc. "Humus management" encompasses these soil-enhancing organic farming practices along with the deep humus knowledge from the organic pioneeers: Efrenfried Pfeiffer, Sir Albert Howard, Lady Eve Balfour, as well as the microbial-humus scientists like Selman Waksman of Rutgers University and the Russian scientiests Kononova and Krasilnikov, among others. This is where the spader comes into the picture. In addition to the cover cropping and compost applications, choice of tillage implement can make a big difference in soil tilth and humus content. The Luebkes found that spading implements are superior as a humus management tool in vegetable production, especially in comaparison to tillers etc. At the Acres conference, M.R. Foulks presented the following data on humus values based on early adoption of large-sized spading implements for agronomic crop production in the U.S. The humus value is the sodium hydroxide colorimetric humus value test. Humus Value Humus Value Soil Depth Chisel Plow/Disc Spader 0-3" 14 20 3-6" 7 15 9-12" 7 18 The data shows that tillage implement alone can affect soil conditions that favor microbial populations, and their ability to humify soil organic matter from crop residues, cover crops, and composts. Steve Diver To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 09:51:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01842 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:51:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29730; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:41:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29369 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:38:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (modem-104.xcelco.on.ca [205.206.216.104]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA14867 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:39:53 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Re: agsyn.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:45:51 -0800 Message-ID: <01be6ab0$e017d840$76d8cecd@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 I agrree on hundred percent jean >Dear Allan, >My suggestion is to ignore Greg Willis as best you can, failing that send >him some loving compassion energy through the ethers. This will do more to >calm things down than to respond to his virulent litigious nature. Having >been on the very personal receiving end of his public vitriolic attacks >more than once last year, both publicly and privately I can assure you that >my lesson learned is that to engage with such energy is to engage an >equally invested part of oneself to maintain that energy. > >Disengage and stay centered in loving compassion rather than rousing the >spiritual warrior within. There are much more worthy and important battles >to be waged. > >Regards, >Jane Sherry > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:05:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02141 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00807; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:47:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00628 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:46:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d144.infoserve.net [199.175.157.144]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA27316 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:51:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003c01be6fbc$2a166c80$909dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:46:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 Dear Andrew and bdnowers, From one aspect, GMO's is a part of hygienic, eugenic and mechanical occultism. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Andrew Lorand To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 9:44 PM Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives >Dear Colleagues, > >During the last few years, like many of you, I have been following with >grave interest the of GMO's and related biotechnologies. With >great concern I have watched the commercialization of insufficiently tested >organisms enter the food stream. And I have been applauding the many efforts >underway to develop comprehensive testing, manditory labeling, public debate >and accountability. May they all succeed! I am also doing my part by making >every effort to educate the 250 or so students I teach every semester as to >the history, development and current issues surrounding the biotech field. >This in itself is no easy task, as the waters are at best muddy. And in our >gardens both on the home farm and at the college's farm, we use seeds from >only the most carefully selected, at minimum organically certified and >almost exclusively from small companies. We make every human effort to use >simple, clean plant products. > >One of the additional questions I carry in all this is what does all this >GMO stuff mean spiritually? In other words: what does this biotechnology > really mean for the long-term soul and spiritual well-being of >humanity? > >One of the things I have noticed, with all the chemical, genetic, and now >biotech interventions, is that they are trying to the secrets of >birth and life, maturity and death. Trying to figure them out. Said >differently: there seems to be a searching, a kind of tapping in the dark >around the great secrets of life, that is . How does life >enter into the physical? How is it organized? Can we change it and if so >what does this do? This far from being unsophisticated, is >however, completely materialistic and mechanical. It is an attempt to > something that essentially is not. > >There is a matrix, a physical-spiritual matrix that allows for the spiritual >to enter into the physical. Where the two meet we have life. It is my view, >that all this biotech tapping in the dark is designed for much more than >merely monopolizing a given cultural plants' gene pool or making huge sums >of money - I suspect it has also much to do with discovering the means by >which to create life force. > >Interestingly, I think this has so very much to do with biodynamics. We too >are working with the life forces. We too are trying to discover how to at >least encourage and work with the life forces and the beings that weave >them. Our means of course, are quite different. > >Just some thoughts > >Warm regards, >Andrew > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:07:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02213 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:07:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01824; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:53:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01576 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:52:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.26]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:55:40 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:54:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Lauren, the CSA bounces back--could you forward this message? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 To: mesa@hooked.net, csa-l@prairienet.org, csa-1@prairienet.org Please post the following on your list serve immediately. We wish to fill this position immediatley. ________ Farmer-Manager Position Laganza Farm is seeking an experienced farmer familiar with organic and preferably biodynamic methods to farm and further develop an existing 20-acre organic orchard and farm. Work can begin immediately. The farmer would also be involved in working with and servicing a CSA through networking in the nearby Temecula and Laguna Beach communities. Laganza farm, established in l989 and located in Aguanga in southern Riverside County, is CCOF and Demeter organic-certified; and in process of full demeter biodynamic certification. Some ll00 trees (more than 20 varieties of apple plus peach, pear, almond and cherry) and several hundred grape vines comprise the farm; a small vegetable garden with plans for expansion; and a one-acre field for vegetables with possibilities of expansion as well, and the orchard could also be expanded. The farm is a demonstration site and field station for the EOS Institute and Permaculture Institute of Southern California which conduct workshops in accordance with the implementation of their comprehensive permaculture plan which envisages an expanded vegetable and herb farming, and other projects. Two to four interns or apprendices are expected to work during the season. Housing is available on site, funds for food and living and for some farm investment are available through outside grants, but the livelihood of the farmer will ultimately be dependent on his/ her production and marketing through a CSA and existing wholesale and farmers markets. An application letter, resume of experience, and at least two references should be mailed to , Laganza Farm, c/o Eos Institute, Laguna Beach CA 92652. For more information call 949-497-2218 or 949-497-4401. We desire to fill this position immediately. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:07:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02222 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01899; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:53:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01577 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:52:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (modem-104.xcelco.on.ca [205.206.216.104]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA15819 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:53:25 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Practical Stock Doctor Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 21:40:44 -0800 Message-ID: <01be6ab8$8b3cd8e0$76d8cecd@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 I have in my possession a very old book entitled "THE PRACTICAL STOCK DOCTOR" 'The Farmers' Short Courses in Live Stock. Published as a text book by F.B. Dickerson Company copyrighted 1904,1908,1912,and 1920.It is absolutely phenomenal in it's scope and in addition uses almost exclusively herbal, mineral and or folk type remedies for all illness and diseases as well as a complete list of "symptoms" for common disorders. My dilemma is this; as the book is old I am hesitant to continue thumbing through it's pages for fear of its emminent disintegration. I will not use an updated version as it would be contaminated with antibiotic thinking. I wish to maintain the information without destrying the book. Any suggestions on how to save this information? Any body feeling up to the job? Holding an international treasure and not sure wht to do with it! Jean From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:11:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02320 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:11:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02821; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02407 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:56:47 -0500 (EST) From: MCDOUGO@aol.com Received: from MCDOUGO@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hDPOa08602 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:58:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:58:30 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: OFF:Richard Alan Miller Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 101 In a message dated 3/14/99 1:43:09 PM, you wrote: >Please let me know if you've taken a workshop or attended a lecture by >herbalist Richard Alan Miller. > >Thank you, > >-Allan Balliett >igg@igg.com Allan, he spoke at the first Acres Conference East, 12 - 14 years ago, in Carlisle PA. He talked about how farmers can grow herbs on a few acres, & make more money per acre than growing field crops. I really don't remember much more than that; it was a long time ago....Doug Britt. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:12:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02332 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:12:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02912; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02417 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:56:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp331.cy-net.net [208.21.195.140]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA25276 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:59:25 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6F8A.04750360@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:50:18 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6F8A.04750360@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: OFF: Texas Catalyst Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:49:15 -0600 Encoding: 19 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 I have been asked a few times to create a usegroup for Texans. Organic Gardening, where to buy seed and plants that do well in our many climates, anything a Texan might want to discuss. I know the cities have area discussion groups, but they fall short. I want folk to be able to access the group for stuff like, what can I plant that does well in Cen E Tex in the way of peaches? I discovered an organic garden center in a small town and want to share that with someone who might make use of it... things like this. Right now, it's only one little page, but I'm working on pg 2 for members to put up their own webpages, some photos, and other information they'd like to share. Also about to go for a domain name for flylo, so the site address will be easier to navigate to, too. If you know a Texan who might be remotely interested, please forward this message! Thanks, (martha) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/Texcat_home.html Sorry this is so off topic for this list, but if you're on OGL, Sanet, or SQFT you'll be seeing it there, too. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:22:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02613 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:22:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA04416; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:11:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04062 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.14]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:12:50 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:11:48 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: request for farm/garden info on Connecticut Message-ID: <795CC95216B0A91F8525673600535FD3.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 Is there anyone on the list who lives in Connecticut close to the NY border? If so, could you contact me privately? Thanks, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:28:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02737 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:28:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA05305; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04961 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:15:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.24]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:19:18 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:18:16 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Practical Stock Doctor Message-ID: <35FB5181EB74EE0C8525673600538FF4.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 <> Try and find an archival book binder in your area. Look under archival supplies in the yellow pages, or contact a good reputable art supply store or art school with bookmaking or drawing courses and someone there should be able to help steer you toward someone who can repair the book, possibly saving it. Failing that, there is always scanning, which unless the book is formatted in single columns, it is my experience that ocr scanners leave much to be desired! It may not be worth the effort, finding xeroxing more direct. In the meantime, buy an archival folder or box to store the book in until you do decide what to do. You can find those also at art supply stores or photography shops. Good luck! Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 11:45:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04851 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:45:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20600; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:34:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.frontiercoop.com (mail.frontiercoop.com [208.130.190.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19903 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:30:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com (ERICA.RENAUD [172.16.10.152]) by mail.frontiercoop.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-37991U200L2S100) with SMTP id AAA952 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:33:00 -0600 Date: 16 Mar 99 10:32:51 -0600 From: Erica Renaud Subject: soil testing To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" X-Mailer: QuickMail Pro 1.5.3b3 (Windows32) X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Message-ID: <19990316163300646.AAA952@erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id LAA19911 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 To bd subscribers, I wanted to know if anyone could provide me with some feedback concerning soil analysis. We, at the organic farm where I work, submitted three soil samples to three different soil testing laboratories. One of the laboratories where we sent a sample was Woodsend. I understand that this soils lab is highly supported by biodynamic growers and I wanted to know why? In addition, I wanted to know what makes their analysis most appropriate to biodynamic growers? It appears to me that their analysis is very thorough, perhaps more than all of the other laboratories we submitted samples to. I would appreciate any comments that would help me make a more thorough assessment of the results provided. Thank you, Erica Erica N.C. Renaud Organic Research Farm, Research Specialist Frontier Natural Products Co-op (319) 227 - 7996 ext.1373 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 13:43:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08615 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15309; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:32:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14741 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:29:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (modem-104.xcelco.on.ca [205.206.216.104]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA03894 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:30:50 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Re:OFF:our litttle garden Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:30:51 -0800 Message-ID: <01be6ff4$44ef7640$68d8cecd@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 we make our way through the fast, we need to think about the ways we tend God's garden through our everyday lives. Here's the crop we should sow: Plant three rows of squash: 1. Squash gossip 2. Squash criticism 3. Squash indifference Plant seven rows of peas: 1. Prayer 2. Promptness 3. Perseverance 4. Politeness 5. Preparedness 6. Purity 7. Patience Plant seven heads of lettuce: 1. Let us read the Holy Writings 2. Let us have boundless energy for the tasks ahead 3. Let us be obedient to God's Will for this day 4. Let us be truthful 5. Let us love one another 6. Let us be unselfish and loyal 7. Let us be faithful to duty And lastly, no garden is complete without turnips: 1. Turn up for Feast/church/mass etc. 2. Turn up for teaching/service activities 3. Turn up with a smile, even when things are difficult 4. Turn up with determination to do your best in God's service. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 14:50:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA10315 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA01303; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:39:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00166 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:34:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.174] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.174]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8P00F5I7JTY8@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:36:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:52:29 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: organic Soybean production In-reply-to: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 References: <36E96792.B80475D0@direct.ca> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA00184 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 >Hola Guillermo, > >I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on >organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is >involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as >export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me >the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and >helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His >phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I >talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the >soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, >that is!). > >Hasta luego, >Anita > > >Anita Graf >313-F Conner Hall >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >University of Georgia >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >(706) 542-1915 phone >(706) 542-0739 fax >agraf@agecon.uga.edu Hola Anita y Gracias por la información: Estoy en un grupo que esta evaluando la factibilidad de establecer una planta de procesamiento de soya (para alimentación humana) en la región. Doing a search in my books and in the internet, very little showed about organic soybean production, so that I will give Tom a ring. Many thanks I know that soybean and soymeal markets are very competitive, but what I am proposing to do, is to develop the plant organic suppliers within the region, instead of buying the US "cheaper" exports. At one time in my life I was a true believer in the comparative advantage argument, but after years of practical experience and seeing what o neoliberal policy has done to my country, I strongly support any local endevour before going global. I guess making things organic and serving a small market, is a good excuse not to have such good numbers in our financial plans. Where I live is an important rice region, so I was wondering if soya could be an associated crop, any ideas ? Regards and thanks again. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 15:11:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10784 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:11:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06855; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:01:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05741 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-018.midcoast.com [208.153.20.118]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA02403 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:00:14 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316144417.007e0720@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:44:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Re: etheric forces and teeth In-Reply-To: <36EC864F.D811C26A@direct.ca> References: <36EC0DDC.78F3@xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #640, March 4, 1999 on the topic of CHLORINE CHEMISTRY NEWS has interesting info about teeth. Its another answer to the question about why the teeth are not developing properly. These findings also cause me to think about animal health since exposure could be from airborne sources which settle down on all farms regardless of their management practices. John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA . . . "Last December, the federal Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) in Atlanta published the long-awaited final report, TOXICOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR CHLORINATED DIBENZO-P-DIOXINS.[4] The report had been circulating in draft form since 1991. In the final report, ATSDR establishes a Minimum Risk Level (MRL) for chronic (long-term) exposure to dioxin. An MRL is the amount of total dioxins (expressed as TEQs) that ATSDR believes people can take in day after day without suffering adverse health effects. ATSDR's official MRL for chronic (long-term) exposure to dioxin is one picogram of dioxin TEQ per kilogram of body weight per day.[4,pg.264] The new ATSDR report says that the average exposure of U.S. citizens is currently three to six times as high as this "safe" level.[4,pg.253] (A picogram is one trillionth of a gram, and there are 28 grams in one ounce.) Thus ATSDR gives us reason to wonder whether people are being harmed at current background levels of dioxin. Shortly after ATSDR released its final dioxin report, a new study was published showing that some people have defective teeth as a result of exposure to current background levels of dioxin.[5] The new study was conducted by dentists in Finland who have been studying dioxin for a decade. In the early 1980s, they noticed that many children had poorly developed molars -- discolored and soft. The normal hard enamel coating was partially missing, making the teeth subject to decay. The researchers hypothesized that the children were being exposed to some toxin early in life and this was interfering with normal growth and development of their teeth. Chinese children born to mothers who were accidentally exposed to high levels of dioxins showed tooth problems similar to those in Finnish children.[6] Taking this as a clue, the Finnish dentists began exposing rats to low levels of dioxin. They found that they could produce the same kind of tooth defects in the rats that had been seen in the Chinese and Finnish children.[7] Next they studied 102 Finnish children, ages 6 to 7, whose mother's breast milk had been tested for dioxins when the children were four weeks old. Seventeen of the 102 children (16.6%) had soft, mottled molars, with insufficient enamel to protect the teeth from decay. If a tooth fails to develop a proper enamel coating, the tooth is subject to decay for the rest of the person's life because enamel never develops later. The Finnish study found that children with the worst teeth were born to mothers with the highest levels of dioxin in their breast milk, thus establishing a dose-response relationship." The researchers examined PCBs separately from the other dioxins and dioxin-like compounds and they found that the PCBs did not contribute to the children's tooth problems. The Finnish researchers' new findings "are very exciting in a scientific sense--and very concerning in a public-health sense--because they demonstrate effects from [dioxin] exposures at background levels," says Linda Birnbaum, a well-known dioxin researcher with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).[8] According to ATSDR, many people in the U.S. and elsewhere have dioxin exposures that exceed the average. These include:[4,pgs.485-497] ** People who are exposed at work, or through environmental contamination, such as people living in Times Beach, Missouri; ** People living near incinerators that are burning municipal, medical or hazardous wastes, or people living downwind from coal-burning power plants; ** People living near any of the 110 Superfund sites where dioxins have been identified. (Superfund sites are chemically-contaminated places that the federal government has identified as dangerous to human health.) ** Sport fishers in the Great Lakes regions are very likely to have high exposure to dioxin, with Lake Huron the highest, Lake Michigan next highest, and Lake Erie the lowest. ** Currently 66 fish advisories have been issued by 21 states because of dioxin-contaminated fish. Three states -- New York, New Jersey, and Maine -- have statewide fish advisories in effect for all of their marine coastal waters, warning people to limit the amount of fish they eat because of dioxin contamination. ** Many indigenous people eat far more fish than the average. Under these circumstances, even low levels of dioxin contamination in fish can add up to a hazard. ** Subsistence farmers who consume their own farm-reared meat and dairy products may be highly exposed if they live downwind from an incinerator or a metal refinery or other source of dioxins. ** People eating food grown on soil treated with sewage sludge may be in danger. ATSDR says, "Exposure to [dioxin] from land application of municipal sewage sludge or paper mill sludge also can occur through the dietary pathway if people consume food grown or animals grazed on sludge-amended lands."[4,pg.497] And: "Most recently, MacLachlan... reported that the prolonged use of sewage sludge as a soil amendment on English farms under some conditions can lead to an increase in the concentrations of [dioxins] in both the soil and in cow's milk."[4,pg.497]" . . . From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 15:27:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11110 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:27:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA10582; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10237 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:15:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.26]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:19:23 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:18:10 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Millet Message-ID: <4B34B8460B62ABC485256736006F7BB4.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 Does anyone on the list have experience with growing millet? Thanks, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 15:35:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11298 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:35:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12732; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from virtu.sar.usf.edu (virtu.sar.usf.edu [131.247.152.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12446 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:24:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (jnoon@localhost) by virtu.sar.usf.edu (8.8.7/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA29082 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Jessica Noon (SAR)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <36EC956F.4BDD@ipa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 unsubcribe bdnow jnoon@virtu.sar.usf.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 15:59:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11951 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:59:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24448; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23948 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:11:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max4-2.stc.net [208.210.132.130]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20477 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231140000.0104d614@pop-server> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:53:28 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Any suggestions that might help Monique, "Little Mo", in her journey toward adulthood would be greatly appreciated, especially a source for more organic or BD milk substitutes, etc. Thanks so much, Phyl Dwyer - Proud, but desperate new Dad! pdwyer@hawaii.rr.com Phil, There can be several reasons a calf does not do well with the dairy industry regimen. Parasites, swallowing objects, etc. One of the worst of these is scours, which can result from the calf, which usually is fed only twice a day and thus gets very hungry, drinking too much milk at a feeding. The milk then overflows into the intestines before it is digested, thus setting up a ferment that scours the calf ultimately bringing about death by way of dehydration. The cure is to give frequent small feedings much as the calf would get were she on her mama in pasture. You can also offer the calf free choice water in a trough or anything except the feeding bucket for milk and free choice dry feed such as a calf starter formula. A calf of 8 weeks won't get by on pasture and hay, but it helps to have a bit of this too. Live yogurt can dry up the scours, and a pinch of BD barrel compound and BD 500 in the dry feed can help too. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 16:38:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13098 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA25731; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25143 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009E5190@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:26:39 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 16 Mar 99 16:26:36 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 16 Mar 99 16:26:10 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:26:03 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <12A4F7A70BC0@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id QAA25152 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 Hola Guillermo y de nada, es un placer poder compartir info. I wish you luck in your endeavor. I think that creating local markets for local goods is the best kind of "development" work that can be done. I went through the same sort of thought evolution of the neolibral trade issue. When I worked in the DR, I met a bd farmer/entrepenuer named Cristof Meir (ever heard of him?) who does a fantastic job of making markets for the local farmers for the export of tropical fruits (bananas mostly). He has a big farm himself, but besides that, he has a packing and shipping operation. He also is able to do a great job of promoting organic at the same time. (I've come to believe that it's really the only viable way to promote organics, especially in the developing countries). When you ask if rice can be "associated" with soy, do you mean inter-cropped or rotationally cropped? I'm guessing that it would be good for rotation since isn't soya leguminous? There are plenty of organic rice producers. Lundgren Family Farms in California comes to mind. Well, best of luck to you on your project, y dime como sale la conversacion con Tom. Anita > > Hola Anita y Gracias por la información: > > Estoy en un grupo que esta evaluando la factibilidad de establecer una planta de procesamiento de soya (para alimentación humana) en la región. Doing a search in my books and in the internet, very l> > I know that soybean and soymeal markets are very competitive, but what I am proposing to do, is to develop the plant organic suppliers within the region, instead of buying the US "cheaper" exports. > > Where I live is an important rice region, so I was wondering if soya could be an associated crop, any ideas ? > > Regards and thanks again. > > Guillermo Romero I. > Comala, Colima, MEXICO > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 17:40:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15551 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:40:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24591; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24013 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:11:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max4-2.stc.net [208.210.132.130]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20502 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:47:36 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 >Hey all, > It's easy to get into black and white thinking about tilling, >but from my reading and experience, it seems that one method alone is >not adequate. The rodales organic gardening book talks about the >positive value of no-till for several years, but how eventually the >soil needs aeration. How about the idea of monitoring the soil and >tilling in OM after several years of no-till, when the soil could use >the additioon of more air. Observation and real decisioon-making >always beat the 'program' approach. That's why i monitor the BD list, >because of the astute observatioons! Bruce Ritchi Dear Bruce, all, I doubt very seriously if Rodale or any other organic no-till research used the BD Preps, let alone a Cosmic Pipe to broadcast them. I also doubt if a lawn mower was used to feed the finished growth to earthworms, let alone perceiving that earthworms could be the best of soil aeration devices. I have and can tell you my experiences. It was about 14 years ago on a nearly barren, hard packed clay hillside in Atlanta. The hillside, in addition to being hard packed infertile clay, was way to steep for tillage. It had to be done no-till or it would have simply washed down the street. The most important things about this experiment were taking a holistic view towards establishing a rich ecology, timing my sowing and mowing activities so as to maximize both plant growth and digestion, and above all getting the forces of the BD preps established and working well. Were I to do this again I'd incorporate Greg Willis' new BD prep, Horn Clay, (more on this when I lfind the time) but everything else I'd pretty much keep the same. Here's the story: Starting From (hard to) Scratch During the early part of l985 I worked on a bridge complex in Marietta, near Atlanta. My co-worker, Adama rented me her basement, and with it the yard. The back yard was shaded, but with a few spots where the soil was decent. The front yard had been bulldozed, was steep, with hard-packed red clay and hardly anything living, even an ant. It barely supported a few tufts of grass and some scraggly bushes. Starting the Project On the positive side, the lot was nearly an acre. The house sat on the hilltop a little back from the middle, and the front slope caught good sun. There was nearly two thirds of a ton of compost which I had started the previous year for Adama with a truckload of oak and poplar bark and some cow manure. Back when I first built the pile I used Dr. Pfeiffer's Quick Composting Compound, which contained the BD preps. But, for several months no earthworms appeared. I began to suspect none were in the area. Finally I brought a jar of earthworms to Atlanta from Blairsville, and that got the pile working. Adama and I worked forty to fifty hours a week, and our jobs were not easy. Monday morning I would pick her up and drive to work. We got back close to dark. We both fixed meals and she had her three-year-old son to take care of. Usually I washed the sawdust and concrete off and worked at my typewriter. I did not have much energy for the yard. Then it was up again at five for another day of bridge construction. My paycheck barely met the bills at the Institute. Fridays, after I dropped Adama off, I headed back to Blairsville, 125 miles away. So, there was little money or energy to put into the yard, but I wanted to see what I could do. My biggest advantage was having tools, seeds, plants and animals, as well as knowing where the cheapest materials were. The first thing I brought down was eighteen bales of old hay, cut late and full of seeds. Not good feed hay, but just the thing to mulch a barren hillside. Then I brought my mower to town, though scarcely anything needed mowing besides some vines near the borders and one lush patch near the water meter. Working in the evening just before dark, I stirred and sprayed a one acre unit of barrel compost; and sowed rye, wheat, crimson clover and sweet clove; into the scattered mulch of hay. The following week I applied BD 500, and a few weeks later, BD 50l. Encouraging Life Near the house where the slope was gentle, I marked off four little forty-inch-wide beds following the contour. I put the compost from the backyard pile on the lower two beds, and dusted the other two with wood ashes. The soil was hard to dig. I spent twelve hours and barely did an adequate job. Double digging was out of the question. Wanting to get more of an earthworm reservoir established in the front yard and put some life in the soil, I brought some wormy compost from Blairsville and scattered it around the scraggly azaleas up against the house. Then I mulched the bushes with bags of oak leaves off the street. Acorns in the leaves attracted a family of squirrels which worked the mulch over, and manured it. I scattered sunflower seeds on the hillside for the birds to eat, and shredded leaves with the lawnmower to start another compost pile. In the back yard I planted bamboo as well as peppermint, stinging nettle and comfrey patches. In the more promising spots I planted daffodils, irises and other flowers. I took two soil samples, one from the beds that got the compost, and one from the mulched hillside. The slope, with the grains and clovers, had a pH of 4.8 and low fertility in every category except potassium. The beds with the compost had a pH of 5.8 and somewhat more nutrients. For boron, which was deficient, I dusted a half box of borax on the front yard for a first application. The slope needed dolomitic lime and I had an old pile on the farm, so I scraped up a couple hundred pounds to scatter on the worst areas. The Doves A flock of doves found the wheat and rye seed under the mulch, eating it and manuring. I had to sow it down twice more before there was enough growing to make a stand. In the composted beds I planted potatoes, onions, garlic, spinach, lettuce and beets, and in the wood ashed beds I planted peas. This may sound like a lot of work, but I had my priorities in order and I averaged only thirty minutes or so after work three or four days a week. The biggest chore was digging the beds, which I did on a day when work was called off on the bridge. My only real error was building the new compost pile in the back yard where the previous one had been, requiring more wheelbarrowing. I had a couple stands of bees in Blairsville, and I brought one down for the garden. I also brought a couple of rabbit hutches, with rabbits, to provide manure for compost piles. The potatoes did well. They also bloomed, setting little green fruits full of seeds, which I collected to grow out the next year. The onions and lettuce were small, but they were perfectly healthy. The peas were truly superior with incredibly sweet pods. Tomatoes of every kind volunteered, along with a couple huge watermelons. The rye on the slope grew to nearly eighteen inches by May, and it made three or four seeds to the head. This was pitiful, but, in all fairness, it was a tenfold improvement over the sparse grass of the year before. The clover germinated and grew, but it was dwarfed, except in the most heavily limed areas. At the end of April the bridge job was finished and we were laid off. I visited only occasionally. In June I sowed buckwheat and soybeans on the slope, mowing off the rye. The doves ate almost all the soybeans and half the buckwheat. The remaining buckwheat grew to sixteen inches and, like the rye, made three or four grains per stalk. I mixed up another batch of soybeans, popcorn and mud, hoping to baffle the doves. They ate most of the popcorn, but the soybeans sprouted and grew. Along with the soybeans a volunteer crop of ragweed took over, getting a little nitrogen from the soybeans, which were inoculated with Rhizobium japonicum, for nitrogen fixation. The ragweed reached six feet tall and bloomed in September. Of course, I sprayed BD preps, applying them four times during this period. With the ragweeds so tall I could envision the progress made underground by their roots. The soil started to loosen up. I brought a truckload of quarry dust from Blairsville in September, and sowed rye, sweet clover, turnips and rape along with various odds and ends. I mowed everything flat, broadcasting the quarry dust on top to sift down through the mulch, and spraying everything down again with BD preps. Rain gave me a break, and the seeds sprouted before the doves could eat them. The former desert became the greenest yard on Avon street. The bee hive made four gallons of honey, and the fall collards at the top of the hill--where the peas had been--were tiny, but good. The turnips in the rye cover on the hillside got no bigger than my thumb. The fall celery and spinach were also a disappointment. But, it was not bad for a first-year garden in a former barren waste. At least everything survived and grew, even the herbs, daffodils, irises, and bamboo. On the Way In 1986 I visited Adama in March and planted potatoes, peas, onions, and collards, changing locations in the beds. Where previously it had taken twelve hours to dig the beds, now it took only two. The compost pile, however, was again inadequate. To remedy this I brought pickup loads of quarry dust, oak bark and commercial laying house manure from Blairsville, making a compost pile at the top of the garden. In April much of the slope was still acid and poor, so I brought nine hundred pounds of lime from Blairsville along with a couple bushels of compost. This evened out the growth of the rye and clover so that by the end of May there was a four foot high, waving field with full heads of grain. In early June I brought another bee colony down, dividing hives and taking the divisions back to Blairsville for two weeks so the colonies would stay separated. I mowed the rye down on top of a broadcast sowing of Laredo soybeans, a hay variety. I also scattered a couple handfuls of pumpkin seeds, and without any tillage I laid out rows of corn in the stubble across the contour of the slope. On top of the corn seed I mounded strips of compost an inch or two high and five or six inches wide. Everything came up. Of course, it helped that the rye mulch was a quarter of an inch deep. A soil test showed the pH of the slope was up to 5.2, and fertility levels had more than doubled in every department except potassium, which was already good. A Cosmic Pipe and Basic "H" I planted a homemade version of Galen Hieronymus' Cosmic Pipe, built on a design Paul Esch of Douglasville, Georgia gave me. This is a device used to broadcast environmental energies, and I used it to strengthen the effects of my biodynamic preparations. I also sprayed the whole front slope down with a dilute solution of Shaklee's Basic "H" to help flush toxins out of the soil since the slope faced a busy thoroughfare. Basic "H" reduces the surface tension of water, making it "wetter," and I believed this would also assure better access to minerals for the plants. But, it was dry, and the topsoil was still very thin. Adama had to water to get the growth started. The soybeans formed an ocean of vines. The corn and bean thinnings made good rabbit feed. The pumpkins grew huge vines, though their fruits did not mature before I sowed and mowed my rye, clover, turnip and rape mixture again in early September. The corn got six feet tall and made respectable ears, which the rabbits enjoyed. There was only one problem. The jungle of growth proved a haven for neighborhood rats, and two separate attempts to get male cats to make this home failed. This led to planting the winter cover crop and mowing the corn and soybeans in early September, as rats were not welcome members of the ecology. Success This time the no-till rye, clover, turnip and rape grew luxuriantly. The turnips were big as my fist and sweeter even than on the farm in Blairsville. The corn and soybean clippings made more than half an inch of mulch. Where the latest pea patch was, I planted celery, broccoli and cabbages, in order to rotate from soil building legumes to heavy feeding leaf crops. I built new hutches for the rabbits, which had matured and needed separation. The turnip and rape yields in the no-till rye on the slope were each nearly five bushels. The bees spent their efforts drawing out comb wax in their new boxes, and since it takes nine pounds of honey to make one pound of wax there was no honey crop. From the original backyard compost site Adama and I moved four volunteer peach trees out to the edge of the front slope near the bees. An especially good volunteer apple tree was left to become permanent at the end of one of the beds. A December soil test showed the pH was 6.5 and fertility was high across the board. Earthworms were everywhere, and my soil sampling tool was easy to push into the ground. The rich, green color of the rye showed the benefits of the preceding blanket of soybeans. The waving field of grain on the once barren slope was utterly no-till, as all I had done was plant, sow, mow, spray BD preps and spread a little compost, lime, granite and borax. I question if cultivation could have done as much. What two years previously had been the poorest yard on Avon street was now the most fertile. Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 17:51:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15914 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA09540; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:40:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09179 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:37:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28390 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:40:30 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36EE6645.CF2@ipa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:42:25 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 >BD-NOW Readers, > >The original thread was No till versus Double digging. >In the ensuing discussion, mechanical spaders were >mentioned as viable implements at the commercial scale. IMANTS does not make a spader, they only SAY they make a spader. What they sell is simply an overpriced 'rotivator.' It is very important for anyone looking for a spading machine to realize that the IMANTS product is simply that: a product. The Imants machine (a 'dutch spader') pales in comparison to an Italian spader. WE A/B'd these machines at the 1997 Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference. We purchased the Tortella (Italian) spader as a result. Once again: Italian spaders 'spade' the soil but the Imants machine churns it. (Not only that, it incorporates organic materials too deeply in the soil. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:00:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16283 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:00:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10775; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:49:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10725 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30691; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:33 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:50:48 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies "The impact of GMO's on our future" Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 Dear Ferdinand, I certainly agree that sitting back, sheeping it out, while GMO's overrun us, is an inadequate response. So, one can collect, grow and inspire biodiversity. It is not only GMO's that are eliminating species, it is monoculture agriculture, alienistic racism, athiestic materialism. Kinship gardening is a good response. Learning the structure and quality of the fabric of life by growing gardens that example diversity and use the depth of the gene pool is a good response. Also, eating organic food, growing our own food, developing new and better crop rotations, microbiological fertilization regimes, these all contribute to a positive and ongoing future. Then also, have you taken an F1 tomato or F1 onion and established a OP line? Try comparing OP's, hierlooms and hybrids; gives direct cognition of some of the issues. Growing some your loval endangered and disappering wild species is also a good response. Hands on, head in, mind up and heart open. Best of growing, Al Kapuler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:03:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16342 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:03:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11318; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10761 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30712; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:42 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:52:33 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Al Kapuler Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 Martha, I went to Belize to see Rosita Arvigo and get some help in using natural herbal means to reverse lymphatic cancer which has been bothering me for a decade and has gotten somewhat worse in the past two years. I began learning the local flora, took many botanical photos, had some clean water, clean air, no phones, faxes or computers and much less stress. I began growing seeds organically in 1973 and continue to this day and for the rest of my life. Best to you Al Kapuler Research Director for Seeds of Change From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:04:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16352 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:04:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11247; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:52:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10737 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:49:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30700; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:37 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:52 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies: Hey Steven! Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 Dear Steven, Rob J. has been pseudo about organics from the outset. He also likes F1's rather than stimulating the development of OP lines from F1's so that we can assuredly save our own seeds and participate in the essential work of conservation of diversity. Same about hierlooms, only in his catalog from economic, marketplace driven, not a heartfelt response that varieties that have been grown, tested and cherished for generations have established themselves as important for humanity. It takes the committment and courage of people like Howard Shapiro and Stephen Badger to fund a growers network of certified organic growers to provide the seeds for Seeds of Change to make large amounts of organic seeds available. They are more expensive, it takes more handwork and it is easy to criticize until you grow some seeds yourself, work to get them clean and highly fertile before recognizing that it is a devotion to life, a profession like healing, a love of humanity and not an economic, bottom line driven endeavor. Johnny has been buying cheap, chemically grown seeds and foisting them on the organic public as if he is doing us a favor. Peace is growing, Best to you Al Kapuler. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:04:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16363 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:04:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11416; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:52:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10781 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30723; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:46 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:53:25 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 Dear Andrew, Keep up the good work, flow of ideas and devotion to spiritual integration. Consider adding kinship gardening to your repetoire of activities.Education about the fabric of diversity is essential for biodynamics and essential for healthy gardens. Control, power, ego, ignorance are all in the mix of GE. Peace and love Al Kapuler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:12:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16598 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:12:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA12758; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:01:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12584 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:00:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.164] ("port 2049"@[148.233.186.164]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8P004JTJTTQL@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:02:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:59:27 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: Practical Stock Doctor In-reply-to: <01be6ab8$8b3cd8e0$76d8cecd@haggerty> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id SAA12586 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 119 >I have in my possession a very old book entitled "THE PRACTICAL STOCK >DOCTOR" 'The Farmers' Short Courses in Live Stock. Published as a text book >by F.B. Dickerson Company copyrighted 1904,1908,1912,and 1920.It is >absolutely phenomenal in it's scope and in addition uses almost exclusively >herbal, mineral and or folk type remedies for all illness and diseases as >well as a complete list of "symptoms" for common disorders. >My dilemma is this; as the book is old I am hesitant to continue thumbing >through it's pages for fear of its emminent disintegration. I will not use >an updated version as it would be contaminated with antibiotic thinking. I >wish to maintain the information without destrying the book. Any suggestions >on how to save this information? Any body feeling up to the job? > >Holding an international treasure and not sure wht to do with it! >Jean Dear Jean: Scan it or xerox it, and publish the book on the net. If posible ask for permission to do it, otherwise buy the rights for a few copies, that I am sure you will have no trouble selling among us. As a matter of fact I also have a similar treasure, I am the great grandson of the founder of the first agriculture school in Mexico, which now is the Universidad Agrícola de Chapingo, The name of my great grandparent was Manuel De Ibarrola Berruecos and in 1903 he published a series of manuals, the one I have is a Manual for the Milking Cow's Breeder (Manual del Criador de Vacas Lecheras) which among other things ( a 444 pages book) has a section on diseases, causes, symptoms, treatment etc.,all of it of course, antibiotic free in 1903. This series of books were written with the support of the Government( Secretaria de Fomento), but that administrative branch no longer exists, so althought we do not have the legal rights to reproduce the documents, we as a family, feel a need to preserve and propagate the materials whenever there is a need to do so. We have a few well preserved originals of this manuals, but what we use and distribute are good quality photocopies of the books. Probably you could do the same with your treasure. Regards. (I will gladly send a copy of this book to whomever (I would only charge the copying and the shipping), but let me warn you that the language is not very easy to understand to even a modern spanish speaking person, and that there are sections of the book that were only valid in the space-time situation where-when it was written (ie. accounting, or Fairs and expositions, etc). Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:42:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17585 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA17993; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:31:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17776 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:30:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp306.cy-net.net [208.21.195.115]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29372 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:33:17 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6FD1.AE642800@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:23:17 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6FD1.AE642800@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Practical Stock Doctor Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:16:58 -0600 Encoding: 19 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 There are a number of book sellers who deal mostly in old or out of print books. I know Colleen's in Houston Texas will do a find for $5, and this includes both domestic and international book dealers who list. (And most of them do.) One might start with one of those and the need to handle fragile books may not be so great if more than one copy exists. Xeroxing the old bookstock becomes tricky because the pages are brittle on edges, and can only tolerate a certain amount of page-turning. A company who does microfilm work usually has what they call a planetary camera and may could reproduce the pages of large books without excessive handling. Someone off this very list sent me a wonderful book search online: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search so far, every book I've thought about or could recall has been located through this search engine! Good luck. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:57:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17875 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:57:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA20246; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:46:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA20139 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:46:10 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA09757 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:13 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-59.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.59) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009642; Tue Mar 16 17:47:42 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <1999316184931341@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 >>Interestingly, I think this has so very much to do with biodynamics. We too >>are working with the life forces. We too are trying to discover how to at >>least encourage and work with the life forces and the beings that weave >>them. Our means of course, are quite different. >> I don't really consider splicing nordic flounder genes into strawberries and tomatoes to make them frost resistant as "working WITH the life forces." The thing I don't here anyone talking about is the fact that this is a totally unnecessary, and expensive technology. It is market driven, not of natural/divine inspiration. Monsanto says with Roundup ready soybeans, farmers earn more because they use less pesticide thereby reducing costs. Bull****! The reason farmers don't earn their worth is because they are being manuiplated by a profit-driven economy which is managed by people with limited or no connection to agriculture, and certainly not in any spiritual sense. When will we (as a society) reclaim our real power by cutting the commodity brokers (an elevated term for "gambler"), chemical/bio- tech companies, politicians, out of the picture? It's like the whole dilemma with the organic standards. They're in a mess because they sought a bureaucratic solution to an economic problem that is founded on a faulty, anti-nature economy. If we play their game, we're always going to lose. We have to set the terms. Paco aka John E. Verin "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 19:31:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18768 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:31:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25709; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:20:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25468 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:19:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18497 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 17:21:47 -0700 Received: from ts2-32.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.183) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 17:21:47 -0700 Message-ID: <36EEF5A7.3A18F28F@cyberhighway.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:22:00 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Salmon River Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 Allan, Could you backtrack a bit for those of us unfamiliar with this subject? I think I understand what the basic principle is here, but I don't understand WHY a person wants to spade clumps instead of rototilling to aerate? Is it to protect the bio-organisms in the soil? Is it to prevent erosion, or soil blowaway? Does a spader create something more like a raised bed? (I did look at the site you posted last Christmas on the Tortella spader, and wish you could post that URL again.) Two of us are doing all the work by hand here this spring, and though I'm dreading the strain on my back, I won't miss the noise of the tiller. But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, "What if someone wanted to start up a large market garden to feed 50 local families?" It's all hard clay around here, and you would need a plow. Is that more like tilling or spading? Thanks, Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > >BD-NOW Readers, > > > >The original thread was No till versus Double digging. > >In the ensuing discussion, mechanical spaders were > >mentioned as viable implements at the commercial scale. > > IMANTS does not make a spader, they only SAY they make a spader. What they > sell is simply an overpriced 'rotivator.' It is very important for anyone > looking for a spading machine to realize that the IMANTS product is simply > that: a product. The Imants machine (a 'dutch spader') pales in comparison > to an Italian spader. WE A/B'd these machines at the 1997 Mid-Atlantic > Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference. We purchased the Tortella > (Italian) spader as a result. Once again: Italian spaders 'spade' the soil > but the Imants machine churns it. (Not only that, it incorporates organic > materials too deeply in the soil. > > -Allan Balliett > igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 19:40:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18972 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:40:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA27398; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:29:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27306 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:28:49 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA12409 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:30:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:30:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-59.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.59) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma012256; Tue Mar 16 18:29:13 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <19993161931135705@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies "The impact of GMO's on our future" X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 On 03/16/99 17:50:48 you wrote: > >Dear Ferdinand, > I certainly agree that sitting back, sheeping it out, while GMO's >overrun us, is an inadequate response. > So, one can collect, grow and inspire biodiversity. It is not only >GMO's that are eliminating species, it is monoculture agriculture, >alienistic racism, athiestic materialism. > Best of growing, > Al Kapuler > > > GMOs are, proven in many European tests (but never found in Monsanto et al propaganda), contorting related species in the wild, so in that sense, yes they are eliminating species. Paco aka John E. Verin "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 20:19:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19909 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:19:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA03957; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:07:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03238 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:03:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp306.cy-net.net [208.21.195.115]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA08447 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:06:18 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6FDE.AD88D040@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:56:19 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6FDE.AD88D040@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: OFF topic RE: Al Kapuler Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:56:09 -0600 Encoding: 17 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 Pardon my lapse, but Al, do you have a website, and are you going to post the photos you took in Belize? I'm trying to wrack my brain to remember some folk you may recall, but it was 15+ years ago that I lived there. (Lived outside Orange Walk, not exactly pristine area even then.) Lived on Caye Caulker during one or two hurricanes, when I realized my life in the coconut palms was fast ending if one more came thru the thatch! Spent extensive time up 26 mile Lagoon near Lamanii ruins, (Indian Church area). Is the Faun Vaundia still operating the Carribean? (We helped launch her initially.) Better quit, getting 'homesick'. Hope your native cures were successful. Rosita Arvigo rings a bell but I can't remember where I heard of her. I have a Bze shaman source book, and I think she's quoted extensively in it, but I don't know which area she was from. An Arvigo (older gent) did help me get over malaria using native herbs. (Martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 20:29:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA20377 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:29:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA05258; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04814 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:11:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.164] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.164]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8P00I4ZLS6CR@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:43:49 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:49:06 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: uai@stc.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id UAA04819 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 > I brought a truckload of quarry dust from Blairsville in September, >and sowed rye, sweet clover, turnips and rape along with various odds and >ends. I mowed everything flat, broadcasting the quarry dust on top to sift >down through the mulch, and spraying everything down again with BD preps. >Rain gave me a break, and the seeds sprouted before the doves could eat >them. The former desert became the greenest yard on Avon street. > The bee hive made four gallons of honey, and the fall collards at >the top of the hill--where the peas had been--were tiny, but good. The >turnips in the rye cover on the hillside got no bigger than my thumb. The >fall celery and spinach were also a disappointment. But, it was not bad for >a first-year garden in a former barren waste. At least everything survived >and grew, even the herbs, daffodils, irises, and bamboo. > Hi Hugh: I remembered this great story from your book. That was the reason why I addressed a question to you last week about basalt dust (I assume it is the same as quarry dust, is'nt it ?). The question in question was : What to look for in a lab test or other exam to evaluate the "quality" of the dust for ag purposes ?. What is it the function of the basalt dust in BD-Agriculture, and why is it diferent (other than by particle size or surface area) from using construction sand. Another person in the list also wanted to know if there is a difference between quarry dusts from different areas. (near the ocean-higher Si content) There have been some reply from the list saying to measure CO2 production in the resulting growing areas and measuring (I do not know what or how) the "paramagnetic" variables of the dust. Could you please expand on the benefits and functions of the basalt dust within a BD and a chemical perspective. Many Thanks for your help. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 20:53:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA20681 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:53:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA09955; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:42:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09673 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:40:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.11]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:44:48 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:43:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 <> <> Eloquent thoughts. Western culture has been motivated by a profit driven economy for many centuries. Those in power have tried to force peoples' minds to accept anti life propaganda for centuries. The church spread the fear of witchcraft a long time ago in order to usurp the power of healing herbs and healthful foods grown in community gardens in order to line their own pockets and exercise their fear and mistrust of people helping one another for centuries. Community gardens today are being taken over by greedy hateful local governments all the while insisting it is the poor folks they are trying to help in the name of low income housing. GE is just the high tech example of controlling people through fear, promotion of greed above all else and divisive tactics through the promises of a better town, country or world. People have become so accustomed to the idea of cheap food, and so many have no idea what 'real' food is, that to promise a better world, with the vision of feeding the starving masses through better science (technology) enables people to keep their blinders on, retreat to the comfort zone of ignorance, and not do the difficult work of really connecting with their neighbors, their community, their earth and the world community in any spiritual or holistic way. As long as someone else is taking care of it, people can be led by laziness to buy or promote anything the market desires, regardless of any understanding that they in turn are helping to destroy the diverse ecosystem. <> In the face of ever increasing wealth being spent to build prisons and less and less to educate people, let alone build gardens, it is up to us indeed to gather with our neighbors and support diversity, community gardens, csa's and any other life promoting new paradigms that evolve over the next decade. As long as people continue to be "alienated" from their food source, from a sense of healing, from a real sense of purpose in life, GE will continue to dazzle the minds and hearts of men and women who do not have a different example of what life should be. Al Kapular, using the word "cherished", when speaking about heirloom seeds, really rang a bell for me. If more people felt cherished in this life by someone or some activity or if they themselves could work in a garden, in the earth with the elements feeding their souls, they would in turn cherish life and want to support it. But education is key. That and eating real food. If only thousands and thousands of small market gardens could be set in up the cities all over the world, where people are really alienated from food, perhaps more and more people would fight for life! If more and more biodynamic farms encroached upon monoculture megalithic corporate farms, perhaps more and more people would fight for life! If more people ate food with life force in it, they would feel less and less the need to keep supporting the pharmaceutical industrial complex by always looking for a quick fix. Ever the optimist, I do believe along with this horrendous monster that is GE, comes the low tech loving impulse of people who want more and more, to grow their own food. Thank you all for your inspiring dialogue and especially to Al Kapular for joining us inspiring more and more people in this community to make their voices heard. And thanks to Allan for his persistant efforts, to get the word out, to get the food out, to nourish and heal us! Respectfully, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 22:59:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA22866 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:59:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA01780; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01578 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:46:37 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA06915 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:48:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:48:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-36.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.36) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006892; Tue Mar 16 21:48:09 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199931622495936334@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 >Eloquent thoughts. Western culture has been motivated by a profit driven >economy for many centuries. Those in power have tried to force peoples' >minds to accept anti life propaganda for centuries. The church spread the >fear of witchcraft a long time ago in order to usurp the power of healing >herbs and healthful foods grown in community gardens in order to line their >own pockets and exercise their fear and mistrust of people helping one >another for centuries. Community gardens today are being taken over by >greedy hateful local governments all the while insisting it is the poor >folks they are trying to help in the name of low income housing. > Celebrating St. Patrick's day?.... Said witches, gardeners etc. were pagans, and it was Saint Patrick who drove paganism (snakes) from Ireland....a thought to have as you raise a toast tomorrow. Goddess-based pagans worshiped the snake as essential to life on Earth. Somehow the Bible authors (King James?) made the snake a nasty enemy, and women the fault of all our suffering. Gee, and here we are on a planet we've rendered ill. Hmmm. I truely feel our culture has a wounded psyche, feeling shame and rage by "God" rejecting us from "Eden." So, our angry infantile reaction is to lash out at God by trashing "His" Eden. Disclaimer... pobody's nerfect, pagans included, me included, and history is past and my comment has no anti-Irish or Christian intentions at all. Or anti-anyone for that matter. I'm just trying to figure out why we're killing ourselves and calling it progress. In faith for the return of Earth's vibrant health, Paco aka John E. Verin "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:04:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA22947 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA02827; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:53:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02687 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:52:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-162.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.162]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA10595 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:54:26 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36EF26E3.3000@ipa.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:52:03 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 128 Intergalactic Garage wrote: > IMANTS does not make a spader, they only SAY they make a spader. What they > sell is simply an overpriced 'rotivator.'... etc.. Allan, The Humus Value data presented at the 1995 Acres USA conference by M.R. Foulds were indicators of soil humus levels as a result of type of implement used in the field trials. The spading implement that was compared against a Chisel Plow/Discing sequence was, in fact, the Imants Spading implement; i.e., the Dutch brand. Perhaps it would be more interesting to BD-Now readers to gain a better understanding of the above-mentioned Humus Value test: what is this test, what does it tell you, how is it different from the percent soil organic matter test, how does it fit into a humus management picture, and why would should a farmer place importance on the influence of tillage implement on soil humus levels. Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:13:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23095 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:13:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA04310; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03897 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:59:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.10]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:03:50 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:02:33 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Message-ID: <89FC55A4DD7CB3918525673700160CD2.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 129 <> Not trying to assign blame, just trying to take responsibility and celebrate Life! Best Regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:24:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23325 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:24:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA06544; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:14:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05967 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:11:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-23.intrepid.net [209.190.163.23]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA01523 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:14:26 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4B34B8460B62ABC485256736006F7BB4.0000000000000000@webcity> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:04:37 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Millet Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 >Does anyone on the list have experience with growing millet? > >Thanks, >Jane Jane, I believe that Christian Elwell grows some of the Japanese millets. He's off the list temporarily. -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:31:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23529 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:31:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA07577; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:20:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07118 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:17:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.211.141.210] (wt-d6-210.wt.net [208.211.141.210]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA06300; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:21:48 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE6F8A.04750360@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:54:23 -0600 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Andy R Subject: Re: OFF: Texas Catalyst Cc: Martha Wells Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 Matha, I was going to send this to you individually but I thought there might be some others in Tx on this group and therefore posted it there also. I am the chairman of the Seed Comittee at Urban Harvest in Houston where we provide seeds, most all organic and non-GE, heirlooms, but some hybrids for our members in the Houston area. I think we would have some very common overlap and would be happy to be a part of your site or with a link. We currently have some folks redoing our WEB site because right now it sucks. Hopefully that will be done in 2-3 months, we'll see. Also I know of some sources for plants etc..., I imagine you are aware of the Tx Seed Saving Group?? Andy >I have been asked a few times to create a usegroup for Texans. Organic >Gardening, where to buy seed and plants that do well in our many climates, >anything a Texan might want to discuss. I know the cities have area >discussion groups, but they fall short. I want folk to be able to access >the group for stuff like, what can I plant that does well in Cen E Tex in >the way of peaches? >I discovered an organic garden center in a small town and want to share >that with someone who might make use of it... things like this. >Right now, it's only one little page, but I'm working on pg 2 for members >to put up their own webpages, some photos, and other information they'd >like to share. Also about to go for a domain name for flylo, so the site >address will be easier to navigate to, too. > If you know a Texan who might be remotely interested, please forward this >message! Thanks, (martha) >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/Texcat_home.html > >Sorry this is so off topic for this list, but if you're on OGL, Sanet, or >SQFT you'll be seeing it there, too. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:31:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23540 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:31:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA07626; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07139 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:17:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.211.141.210] (wt-d6-210.wt.net [208.211.141.210]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA06315; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:21:54 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:58:01 -0600 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Andy R Subject: Re: OFF:Richard Alan Miller Cc: MCDOUGO@aol.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 He just spoke at the latest Acres Conference in Dec in Minneapolis and taught a workshop there. You can buy the tape from Acres USA. I have listened to the tape because I went to a diffent talk but he is very knowledgable and opionated which is not necessarily bad. Andy >In a message dated 3/14/99 1:43:09 PM, you wrote: > >>Please let me know if you've taken a workshop or attended a lecture by >>herbalist Richard Alan Miller. >> >>Thank you, >> >>-Allan Balliett >>igg@igg.com > >Allan, he spoke at the first Acres Conference East, 12 - 14 years ago, in >Carlisle PA. He talked about how farmers can grow herbs on a few acres, & >make more money per acre than growing field crops. I really don't remember >much more than that; it was a long time ago....Doug Britt. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:35:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23641 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA08049; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:23:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07893 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-23.intrepid.net [209.190.163.23]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03208 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:25:04 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36EF26E3.3000@ipa.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:27:07 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 >Intergalactic Garage wrote: >> IMANTS does not make a spader, they only SAY they make a spader. What they >> sell is simply an overpriced 'rotivator.'... etc.. > >Allan, > >The Humus Value data presented at the 1995 Acres USA conference >by M.R. Foulds were indicators of soil humus levels as a result of >type of implement used in the field trials. The spading implement >that was compared against a Chisel Plow/Discing sequence was, >in fact, the Imants Spading implement; i.e., the Dutch brand. > >Perhaps it would be more interesting to BD-Now readers to gain >a better understanding of the above-mentioned Humus Value test: >what is this test, what does it tell you, how is it different >from the percent soil organic matter test, how does it fit into >a humus management picture, and why would should a farmer place >importance on the influence of tillage implement on soil humus >levels. > >Steve Diver I've got no problem with this, Steve, have at it. I don't see any reason why the two paragraphs above would conflict with caveat, of course. Spader shoppers: Eugene Canales "Spader Clinic," which appeared in BIODYNAMICS last year and has been on the www until recently, is your best introduction on what to look for in a machine which will 'double-dig' for you and how to coax the best performance out of the machine you do buy. As Bruce B. for a backissue copy of BIODYNAMICS or call Eugene Canales at the number listed in Steve's original post. Thanks -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 00:02:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA24100 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:02:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA13401; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:50:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13042 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] ([208.210.143.20]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA05447 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:51:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:38:52 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 > >Hi Hugh: > >I remembered this great story from your book. That was the reason why I >addressed a question to you last week about basalt dust (I assume it is >the same as quarry dust, is'nt it ?). The question in question was : >What to look for in a lab test or other exam to evaluate the "quality" of >the dust for ag purposes ?. What is it the function of the basalt dust in >BD-Agriculture, and why is it diferent (other than by particle size or >surface area) from using construction sand. Another person in the list >also wanted to know if there is a difference between quarry dusts from >different areas. (near the ocean-higher Si content) > >There have been some reply from the list saying to measure CO2 production >in the resulting growing areas and measuring (I do not know what or how) >the "paramagnetic" variables of the dust. > >Could you please expand on the benefits and functions of the basalt dust >within a BD and a chemical perspective. > >Many Thanks for your help. > >Guillermo Romero I. >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > Guillermo, My quarry dust was granite and by exhaustive analysis showed over 4% potassium and 0.72% phosphorous. I don't remember the calcium or magnesium content but it was NOT high--I believe under 1% for each. Silicon (atomic weight 28) was somewhere in the high 20s as I recall, which would make the silica content (silicon dioxide, molecular weight 60) up above 50%. I believe there was some nitrogen content since the granite was blasted out of the mountain with ammonium nitrate mixed with diesel oil. The best test as far as I'm concerned is wherever I applied it (maybe half a centimeter or so thick) I got a good algal bloom (given our high rainfall). I think there is another phenomenon associated with it that might be lost in the quest for chemical analysis and looking at everything with a microscope. Earthworms loved this stuff. The chemical folks may tell you it is best if rock powders are ground fine enough to pass a 60 or even 80 mesh screen. They'll say their tests show that's what it takes to get good release of mineral nutrients. I guess they haven't many earthworms in their test plots. Consider this. Earthworms are like chickens and have gizzards instead of teeth. They like those sharp, siliceous, gritty pieces to grind their food (the lawnmower clippings in this case) with. The chemists may tell you those sandy bits don't contain much in the way of nutrients anyway. But they're hard. I can hear the chemists scoff now, thinking what is the value of hardness? This quarry was noted for having hard stone, and like I say the earthworms loved it. They came up and scarffed it off the surface at night, gathered their lawnmower clippings, and presumably spend their days underground feasting to their hearts' content. That's what opened up the soil on that hillside and let in the nitrogen, oxygen and water. You know, those things nature gives us free if we have sense enough to go for it. What a key thing! Earthworms and hard, sharp bits of quartz with supposedly very low nutrient content. I doubt it could have been done with finer quarry dust or without the earthworms. Nor could the whole thing have occurred without BD preps to bring in the life forces. And I might add, since BD emphasizes the importance of looking at larger scale phenomena such as the overall growth and digestive activity and gives less emphasis to chemical analysis, it was the BD way of looking at things that achieved these results. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 06:47:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27942 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:47:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA26586; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA26394 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:33:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp215.cy-net.net [208.21.195.24]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA28568 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:36:32 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7036.DB2480A0@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:27:32 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7036.DB2480A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: OFF: Texas Catalyst Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:00:12 -0600 Encoding: 33 TEXT, 84 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 Thanks Andy; I wasn't aware of your org, but I am a member of the Tx Seed Exchange. Jack Rowe, (owner, director) is also a member of our new group as well. Pass the info along, and keep in mind that this is still very early and not a lot of traffic on-list yet. A few E Tex members who might could use the information your own group can provide, so links, or membership would be useful both ways. martha -----Original Message----- From: Andy R [SMTP:lamu@wt.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 11:54 AM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: Martha Wells Subject: Re: OFF: Texas Catalyst Matha, I was going to send this to you individually but I thought there might be some others in Tx on this group and therefore posted it there also. I am the chairman of the Seed Comittee at Urban Harvest in Houston where we provide seeds, most all organic and non-GE, heirlooms, but some hybrids for our members in the Houston area. I think we would have some very common overlap and would be happy to be a part of your site or with a link. We currently have some folks redoing our WEB site because right now it sucks. Hopefully that will be done in 2-3 months, we'll see. Also I know of some sources for plants etc..., I imagine you are aware of the Tx Seed Saving Group?? Andy begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(B +`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYO&%S($-A=&%L>7-T`) '`06 `P`.````SP<#`!$`!0````P``P#^``$@ M@ ,`#@```,\'`P`1``0`.0`D``,`3@$!"8 !`"$````R-T,R,D8P1#(U1$-$ M,C$Q0C$Q,3 P0S!&,#(Y-C@R,0#J!@$#D 8`H L``"$````+``(``0````L` M(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`+@```````P`V``````! `#D`0,_. M5&5PO@$>`' ``0```!@```!213H@3T9&.B!497AA`!X,`0````4```!3 M3510`````!X`'PP!````$@```&9L>6QO0'1X8WEB97(N8V]M`````P`&$,/6 M+4L#``<0[0,``!X`"! !````90```%1(04Y+4T%.1%D[25=!4TY405=!4D5/ M1EE/55)/4DP4RAU8FH% MD'17L$1AZ'1E.C8D-D__40]2'_]3+U0Y,< ]HPXA2Z$ZM@Y0FU5O5GY2.8$7 M`2!(/9'[!) V)#=9;UI_6X]##W>'!Q40& M;E@P`& )\$V@[WT``@$UX%Y290#P?0`Q@))P'H!<=@B0=VL+@/YD:T" H@3P M!T 080% #@#O<2(]@H(%`A!O!4(7(1+R#5C ;0M16, @0SI #8'-O`8 @+D\!( W@?_! "C M/ZC/J=^JY)\*^0,P>"]Y/WK->U24H0IK!"!!?Q!Y.R!)UB!MD#50)P5 86V1 M$X 9AB @>0AAM5!R9RS\(&)G4+1AA2&54 > !M#;!)"U4G0QT%? > 91"8 8 M($5X%M$/<&4N($I*`-!K!_%W9;80*/NPD#5@2 ]D'%0P8#WOQ(3 M4+3A( D`!4"W4D[ \X9RM5!N+6=P,7"U@!<@V;C 02 04 ?@15? -7#[MM6\ MX6B[$+_0LF(%H$Y@_S4@LA 3@+X6->%-T (@M87?N;"\98&0`Z 7<&^ H $` M_[80NP%G<;/@MA %L<4EP(#=O+!WQE.W$,:29DY@MB#G@T!/(&V0>7.]1J^D ML&_[L7\%0'L`P `@%N *A01E"XH-8SS,O_L 9B_6\@T>]POW'/ M9S]H3_]I7VIOLT34-E=S#(*T`P?P@"!;4TU44#H+8#!M=4!WQ# U8'1=_]?? MV.1NN]H?VR_T-]F*)$.= 0 GP@* #8,G2SBZU MX>__-:!#8^S^[H'IP"$@5[T1<_./[)%8)!_[4QQ>2W$ J%AA"[4+50 M!^+_P*'[P+?!Q[' <[QUO_.)0?M_<1. '(X,-AP@3#H$=%_[80,="Z M(,*@"4#*$;8R"3/\:'GHD #PNL!_<0C%M:+?Q2;[L;>"$?:U(6&XP U!@C%MXI3&\ ] MPD>\@OP_/RK-M"'03=2V!3+5F Q]`#7 -? ``P`0$ `````#`!$0``````,` M@!#_____0 `',,"+=_=D<+X!0 `(,,"+=_=D<+X!"P``@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8``````X4````````#``* "" &``````# ````````1@`````0A0`` M``````,`!8 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````%*%``"W#0``'@`E@ @@!@`` M````P ```````$8`````5(4```$````$````."XP``,`)H (( 8``````, ` M``````!&``````&%````````"P`O@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````#H4` M```````#`#" "" &``````# ````````1@`````1A0````````,`,H (( 8` M`````, ```````!&`````!B%````````'@!!@ @@!@``````P ```````$8` M````-H4```$````!`````````!X`0H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#>% M```!`````0`````````>`$. "" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0`` G``$`````````'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``/D/ ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 08:11:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29197 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:11:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01532; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:59:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01222 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:56:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10NFuV-0006QK-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 04:58:59 -0800 Message-ID: <36EFA43B.E078CFF3@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 04:46:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: WORLDWIDE DEMONSTRATION AGAINST GENE ENGINEERING MAY 13TH, 1999, NOON Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 CALL FOR A WORLD WIDE DEMONSTRATION AGAINST GENE ENGINEERING, MAY 13TH, 1999 AT NOON IN EVERY DWELLING, HAMLET, VILLAGE, TOWN AND CITY OF THIS PLANET BY INTERFERING WITH THE LIFE FORCES IN SEEDS, ANIMALS AND HUMANS INDUSTRY IS EGOTISTICALLY AT WORK ON ALTERING LIFE PATTERNS THAT HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS. WHAT THEY CALL GENE MANIPULATION, IN SHORT, IS NOTHING LESS THAN RAPE OF MOTHER NATURE. A TYPICAL BYPRODUCT OF OUR 'HAVING-GONE-MAD INDUSTRIAL AND (SO CALLED) SCIENTIFIC SOCIETY' WE, THE PEOPLE OF THIS WORLD, WOMEN AND MEN, WILL NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN. ENOUGH RAPE HAS GONE ONE. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. WE STAND UNITED IN DEFENDING MOTHER EARTH AGAINST THIS SORT OF PROFIT MINDED AND ANTI SOCIAL BEHAVIOR. IT VIOLENTLY ATTACKS, ALTERS AND MISUSES OUR MOST BASIC NEEDS: OUR FOOD. WE WILL NEITHER REST, SLEEP NOR SHUT UP UNTIL THIS INJUSTICE (RAPE) HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED FOR WHAT IT IS. IT MUST BE STOPPED NOW AND FOREVER. THE TIME IS SHORT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. WE HAVE DECIDED TO ACT NOW. WE SHALL NOT LET THIS PLANET BE RUINED YET AGAIN (ATOMIC BOMB ETC.). LET US REMEMBER THAT GENE ENGINEERING WILL AFFLICT EVERYBODY FROM NOW ON FORWARD FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS TO COME. WE, THEREFORE, ARE CALLING FOR A DEMONSTRATION IN EACH AND EVERY CITY, TOWN, VILLAGE, HAMLET, AND DWELLING ON THIS EARTH ON ASCENSION DAY MAY 13TH, 1999, AT NOON THIS IS THE DAY FROM WHENCE FORWARD THERE SHALL BE NO FURTHER RAPE OF MOTHER EARTH. GENE ENGINEERING BE BANNED. LET DEMONSTRATIONS TAKE PLACE IN (FIRST RECIPIENT OF THIS POST ADD BEST PLACE IN YOUR TOWN FOR A LARGE DEMONSTRATION.) NEW YORK: Central Park LIECHTENSTEIN TORONTO: High Park STRASSBOURG LONDON: Speaker's Corner OSLO ZURICH Bellevue STOCKHOLM VANCOUVER Stanley Park MEXICO CITY SEATTLE Space Needle TEL AVIV VIENNA Prater ATHENS HELSINKI ISTAMBUL PARIS Place Etoile SOFIA ROME WASHINGTON MOSCOW DELHI BERLIN SIDNEY HAMBURG OTTAWA WARSAW GRAZ CHICAGO AMSTERDAM SAN FRANCISCO VATICAN CITY TOKYO BUONES AIRES MELBURNE ADD YOUR CITY AND PLACE AUCKLAND BRUSSELS ROTTERDAM GHENT BERN MADRID ZAGREB ANCHORAGE =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTER FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 08:22:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29406 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:22:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA02838; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:11:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA02806 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10NG8e-0002gx-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:13:36 -0800 Message-ID: <36EFA7E8.4AEA57CD@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:02:32 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Calf rearing w/out the mamma References: <3.0.32.19691231140000.0104d614@pop-server> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 Dear Phyl, To begin with, I ought to make it clear that calf rearing (without the mama) is one of the most challenging jobs there is. Firstly, you have to massage the animal several times a day (as the mama does). Her tongue starts at the front (you may want to take a somewhat wetted towel) and work all the way to the back. Make sure that she always has a clean and dry anus. Milk replacers are, by and large, the worst you can give, however: what else is there? IF you give replacer, keep her on the sparing side. DO NOT OVERFEED. A SLIM CALF IS A HEALTHY CALF WAS ALWAYS RIGHT (ON OUR FARM). Give her additional amounts of lukewarm water when needed. The name of the game is NOT to get the runs, diarrhea. Milk, natural (if possible) could be given, however, this is dangerous as (in your temperature) it could get sour and may cause the runs. Should she develop the scours (runs) we used a raw egg yolk that we fed directly into the mouth. Dry fodder is already a possibility. Finely cut hay & fodder pellets. Martha's advice is excellent. Personally, I'd feed her with my fingers (in the bucket). OUr calves always learned to fend for themselves when the time had come. Phyl Dwyer wrote: > March 15, 1999 - Hawaii > > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone have suggestions about how to salvage a rather funky situation > for a special little heifer calf (almost eight weeks old, born 1/19/99) > that was taken from its mother immediately after birth and stuffed in a > cage in a bank of cages along with hundreds of other calves? She did not > fair well with the "bucket" drink it or "the hell with you" approach of the > dairy industry and is some what set back in her body weight and > development. We've taken her to our farm and are using what seems to be our > only option - a milk substitute powder. She was actually nearly born in a > better situation. Her mother was naturally bred and pastured during her > pregnancy, but was purchased into another dairy as part of a buy out that > just happened to coincide with her birth. > > Any suggestions that might help Monique, "Little Mo", in her journey toward > adulthood would be greatly appreciated, especially a source for more > organic or BD milk substitutes, etc. > > Thanks so much, > > Phyl Dwyer - Proud, but desperate new Dad! > pdwyer@hawaii.rr.com > > =================================================== > Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address > > =================================================== -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTER FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 08:49:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29839 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:49:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA04817; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:38:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04736 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:38:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p00-91.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.166]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id HAA02015 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:41:28 -0600 Message-ID: <003601be708c$ceb2a8a0$a6f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Alan Kapuler and Peace Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:41:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7049.887BF0A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7049.887BF0A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Alan- I was wondering how someone gets a copy of your Peace Papers? I'm = teaching a class at Prescott College next Spring and was hoping to use = it. I looked through books in print and nothing there. Also, what is = your connection to Deep Diversity Seeds in Gila, NM. I see they list = themselves as formerly Peace Seeds, wasn't this your company?=20 It's very exciting to have your energy on the list! Take care, Parker ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7049.887BF0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Alan-
     I = was wondering=20 how someone gets a copy of your Peace Papers? I'm teaching a class at = Prescott=20 College next Spring and was hoping to use it. I looked through books in = print=20 and nothing there. Also, what is your connection to Deep Diversity Seeds = in=20 Gila, NM. I see they list themselves as formerly Peace Seeds, wasn't = this your=20 company?
     = It's very=20 exciting to have your energy on the list!
 
Take care,
Parker
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7049.887BF0A0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 08:55:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29921 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:55:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA05391; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:44:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05090 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:41:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10NGcS-00015J-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:44:25 -0800 Message-ID: <36EFAF09.A548719E@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:32:57 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: My cow research, so far, has yielded the following Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 139 Cow reaearch by Ferdinand: FEUDALISM: You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk. PURE SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need. BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and as many eggs as the regulations say you should need. PURE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk. Your neighbor has 25 children; you are a single parent with a child who has moved out. RUSSIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk. DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you. MILITARISM: You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you. PURE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk. REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk. AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: The government promises to give you two cows if you vote for it. After the election, the president is impeached for speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the affair "Cowgate". BRITISH DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. You feed them sheeps' brains and they go mad. The government doesn't do anything. ISRAELI DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. They form a political party. That party splits up over religious, ethnic and security differences. The problem is that it splits into three parties, and you still have only two cows. BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. After that it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows. ANARCHY: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbours try to kill you and take the cows. CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. or CAPITALISM: You have no cows, but a Capitalist will let you milk her cow for you and they pay you enough to buy only 5% of the milk you just got out of the cow. TOTALITARIANISM: You have two cows. The