From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Feb 2 12:20:13 2000 Date: 02 Feb 2000 12:20:13 -0500 From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA Message-ID: <949512013@metalab.unc.edu> X-IMAP: 0921343314 0000003416 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 11:18:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17477 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:18:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA00287; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:06:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00155 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:05:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10LqwJ-0002Wh-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:07:10 -0800 Message-ID: <36EA8C89.49E9AF66@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:04:25 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: unable to receive/send mail References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 The challenge is an additional one. I am trying to receive some 20 - 40 posts and store them. Then, I go through them step by step and either discharge them or answer. The answer I store in order to send it the next day - but what really irks me is the fact that (at times) my system or the connection or whatever breaks down and a long night's work is gone. Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >Dear friends, > > > >Living in the boonies has its disadvantages, too. My server does not > >have enough lines and I can only receive or send posts for about 4 - 5 > >hours per night. So, if you do not hear from you that much any longer, > >it is the server that has 'cut me out'. In the past I could 'digest' > >posts on an ongoing basis. At the moment there is a line : user > >relationship of 1:20 which is far too high. Regards Ferdinand > > Everyone: > > Many of us are faced with this problem. A remedy is on the horizon. Many of > the national long distance companies are offering internet connections as > part of your regular service. You might want to check in with AT&T or > Sprint, and so on. > > -Allan Balliett > igg@igg.com -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 11:25:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17549 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:25:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01112; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00834 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:12:19 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hEMOa14074 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:14:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <33ae8fa4.36ea8ed3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:14:11 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Opportunity Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 Cornucopia Farms in Malibu, Ca. is looking for a BD farmer to start a CSA and educate school kids and adults. They are a non-profit outfit and have a generous salary to go with the job. Growing sites amount to about 16 acres and are discontiguous. Growing is year 'round in the coastal climate. Many grocery stores and restaurants will forward all compostable scraps for a community compost venture. Contact me for more info. Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 11:34:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17672 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:34:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01816; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:24:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01642 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:22:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10LrDY-0003J6-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:24:52 -0800 Message-ID: <36EA90BB.238C48AB@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:22:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 My dear friend Rex, 18 years ago I had a son (who is now 25) who had the most deformed teeth arrangement one could imagine. I went to a dentist (in Germany) who happened to be an Anthroposophist. We discussed Chris' teeth and he said to me: There are two possibilities 1. We tear, re-set, brace and file or 2. You do Eurythmie (Dr. Steiner's movement) with him for a long time. IN the morning, for 10 minutes. Well, my son and I did it for 2 - 3 years. His teeth have re-arranged themselves totally. You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are starting to lose their connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is like an artist gone bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative forces are 'painting' all over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and that, funny enough are the teeth and the skull). Here, the most intensive, the most exacting (again, if one want to call it that way) work has to be done (millimeter, thens of a millimeter work) so that the teeth fit onto each other. Well, if we do NOT love the creation, we will not go to work with it over long(er) periods of time. We are going to be challenged in our hearts. Cutting, trimming, operating, stunting, hacking etc. etc. are short term solutions which, as far as I am concerned, does not demand much love but rather technical know-how (well, a bit of love, too - to learn the techniqe). However, when you do Euruthmy with a child OR work eurythmically with nature, you have to become one with it first so that you may understand it better. You have to give up your (technical, preconceived) ideas and 'suffer' with the creation first BEFORE you can offer (short lived) solutions. Dr. Steiner's indications are indications for the very long term. Of course, we can see changes within a year or two when applying BD Preparations, however, the very long term changes will only become known in many, many generations. Again, much more could be said. Regards Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote "Let me say this": > > > The tail of any animal is connected to is psyche. Every animal expresses > > its feelings via its tail. I can see that with my (small brain Ostriches) > > and my dogs, the cat, horses, cows and all. If you cut that part of or > > shorten it, the animal tends to get out of balance. Nature would take > > care of this by eliminating such 'a creation'. Sheep that cannot signal > > their pleasure or displeasure to their mates would, eventually, be > > eliminated by the wolf. > > > > Of course, mankind has done a lot of diforming of animals by Xbreeding, > > off-breeding, inbreeding, outbreeding and so forth. Most animals that we > > call domesticated would likely not survive by themselves in nature for > > long. It is likely that (if such breeds would survive for a while) future > > generations would start to 'approximate' their ancestors again. > > > > My sister is breeding Rottweiler (dogs) and by law (in Switzerland) and > > as of the year 2000 tails must NOT be cut any longer. What a different > > looking dog a Rottweiler with a long tail is. It is mindboggling. And > > now, by the 'power of this long tail' the entire pivoting point of the > > dog is shifting to the back. It is as if a new organ (i.e. the old one) > > has been added again and it is MUCH easier to read this dog again. > > > > Much more could be said. > > MUCH MORE COULD BE SAID! Good grief, must you contiually astound me? Can we stretch your > thought to cover the pitifully thin facial organs of so many of today's mineral-poor children? > Can we go so far as to recognize that pulling children's wisdom teeth and using tortuous metal > braces to reform their very skull bones is as barbaric as cutting off Rottweilers' tails? Can > we finally understand that we are castrating our children by not providing them abundant > mineral-rich fare? > > I *really* appreciated this post. Right now I'm wondering if there is a long line of would-be > apprentices forming for the no-pay privilege of working shoulder-to-shoulder for a season with > a man who sees the universe in marvelous light. > > Regards, > Rex Harrill -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 12:01:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17990 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:01:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04156; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:51:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03921 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:49:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p00-21.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.176]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id KAA17219 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:52:23 -0600 Message-ID: <000d01be6d82$d34d7f00$b0f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: zodiac-help-glen Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:52:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE6D3F.8DA4AF20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE6D3F.8DA4AF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Glen- Oh how I wrestle and am fascinated with the planting calendar. I'm = trying to understand the concept that I copy below. If every 72 years we = drop 1 degree, after 2000 I figure we would drop 1 degree 27.777 times. = Now forgive me for being a fool but did the Greek calendar start with O = A.D., and how did Mrs. Henderson get 2000 years in 1989. So where are we = actually right now in 1999, and what does this say for a person born = December 3 of 1966. Am I not really a Sagittarius? This could shake some = things up for me, I have thought myself to be so typical of a Fire sign. = Will I have to change my ways? With stars, Parker Biodynamics: New directions for Farming and Gardening in New Zealand New Zealand Biodynamic Assoc. 1989 The Greek civilisation introduced the =91tropical=92 zodiac; an equal = division of the full 360 degree circle of the zodiac into 12 parts of 30 = degrees. In speaking about the zodiac, there is often some confusion over the use = of the terms =91constellations=92 and =91signs=92. When the Greeks = worked out their calendar, the vernal point stood at 0 degrees in the = sign of Aries, the star picture of the Ram. (The vernal point is the = position in the sky behind the rising sun on the spring equinox = (Northern Hemisphere). However, the cycle from one spring equinox to = another (tropical year) is approxiamately 20 minutes shorter than the = sun takes to return to a same fixed star (sidereal year). In other = words, the equinox is happening each year before the sun has reached the = same place in the zodiac as the previous year. Hence after 72 years the = sun at the equinox no longer rises in exactly the same place in the sky, = but one degree before. Thus, in the 2000 years since the Greeks, the = vernal point has moved into the previous sign; at present it is 16 = degrees Pisces, the star picture of the Fishes. Modern astrologers, = however, take no notice of what we can observe in the sky, but continue = to call the present vernal point =910 degrees Aries=92. Thus the names = for the astrological =91signs=92 no longer correlate with their star = pictures i.e. what can actually be seen in the sky. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE6D3F.8DA4AF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Glen-
Oh how I wrestle and am fascinated = with the=20 planting calendar. I'm trying to understand the concept that I copy = below. If=20 every 72 years we drop 1 degree, after 2000 I figure we would drop 1 = degree=20 27.777 times. Now forgive me for being a fool but did the Greek calendar = start=20 with O A.D., and how did Mrs. Henderson get 2000 years in 1989. So where = are we=20 actually right now in 1999, and what does this say for a person born = December 3=20 of 1966. Am I not really a Sagittarius? This could shake some things up = for me,=20 I have thought myself to be so typical of a Fire sign. Will I have to = change my=20 ways?
 
With stars,
Parker

Biodynamics: New directions for Farming and Gardening in New = Zealand

New Zealand Biodynamic Assoc. 1989

The Greek civilisation introduced the ‘tropical’ zodiac; = an equal=20 division of the full 360 degree circle of the zodiac into 12 parts of 30 = degrees.

In speaking about the zodiac, there is often some confusion over the = use of=20 the terms ‘constellations’ and ‘signs’. When the = Greeks=20 worked out their calendar, the vernal point stood at 0 degrees in the = sign of=20 Aries, the star picture of the Ram. (The vernal point is the position in = the sky=20 behind the rising sun on the spring equinox (Northern Hemisphere). = However, the=20 cycle from one spring equinox to another (tropical year) is = approxiamately 20=20 minutes shorter than the sun takes to return to a same fixed star = (sidereal=20 year). In other words, the equinox is happening each year before = the sun=20 has reached the same place in the zodiac as the previous year. Hence = after 72=20 years the sun at the equinox no longer rises in exactly the same place = in the=20 sky, but one degree before. Thus, in the 2000 years since the Greeks, = the vernal=20 point has moved into the previous sign; at present it is 16 degrees = Pisces, the=20 star picture of the Fishes. Modern astrologers, however, take no notice = of what=20 we can observe in the sky, but continue to call the present vernal point = ‘0 degrees Aries’. Thus the names for the astrological=20 ‘signs’ no longer correlate with their star pictures i.e. = what can=20 actually be seen in the sky.

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE6D3F.8DA4AF20-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 12:22:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18216 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA06181; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:12:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06007 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:10:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.26.86 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:12:47 -0800 Message-ID: <001501be6d74$522457e0$561a2599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: OFF: CSA Opportunity Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:09:13 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 Dear Friends, Please, if you can, send me more specific information on this opportunity - as I would like to pass it on to the over 250 students I am working with at SRJC this semester (most of whom are adults i.e. older than the usual college crowd - many of which already have some experience). Do you have a flier? We have on-going courses right now on CSA, organic/ecological gardening (vegetables), commercial organic composting, organic specialty crop production (fruits, flowers & herbs), organic viticulture and ecological resource management at our college's 365 acre farm. We will also be offering advanced organic vegetable and fruit growing course in summer - so there a good sized group to canvas for potential farmers. We also have a very nice biodynamic community education program developing here (non-college-related) with roughly thirty participants - many of whom may also be interested. We'll be having another workshop fairly soon, so I could pass out fliers there too. Thanks and the best of luck finding just the right folks! Cheers, Andrew From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 15:44:08 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20630 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:44:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24327; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24021 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:30:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-017.midcoast.com [208.153.20.117]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26990 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:33:12 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990313151549.007b4300@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:15:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces In-Reply-To: <36EA90BB.238C48AB@direct.ca> References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Dear Rex, Ferdinand, and others, One of the most powerful books I have found which connects nutrition with dental health and/or dental degeneration is "NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL DEGENERATION" by Weston A. Price DDS, 512 pages. In the early 1930s Dr. Price and his wife traveled to every corner of the world to study the diets and health of 14 isolated native tribes in Africa, South America, Australia, Polynesia, as well as North American Indians and Eskimos. He compared the health of groups who only ate their historical native diet with people of the same tribe who ate diets of commerce -- white flour, white sugar, and processed foods. From the data, including hundreds of photographs, the Prices produced one of the most significant books on nutrition ever published. Its thesis, that the naturally chosen "primitive" diet promoted health and that the modern "civilized" diet, led to rapid degeneration of overall health and physical structure, was revolutionary for its time and far from generally accepted. The wealth of evidence and fascinating detail Dr. Price provides is as informative and valuable today as it was half a century ago. His investigations showed that it takes only one generation of eating a "Westernized" diet to produce severe dental caries, malformed jawbones, and misaligned teeth. Dr. Price practiced dentistry in Cleveland, Ohio. He died in 1948. The Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation of San Diego was established to disseminate his nutritional discoveries. > >You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are starting to lose their >connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is like an artist gone >bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative forces are 'painting' all >over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and that, funny enough are the >teeth and the skull). Here Impaired connection with the formative forces show up in the teeth because each tooth is energetically linked to all systems of the body via the meridian pathways. Dr. Price's research showed that people who ate food raised and prepared according to their native dietary traditions, almost never had tooth decay or misaligned teeth. Even more interesting, was the practice in these cultures of modifying the diet prior to conceiving children. The diet was enhanced for both men and women to help the couple have the forces that were needed to produce healthy children. thanks, John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Mar 11 23:49:10 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA17917 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:49:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA02769; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:34:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from scn4.scn.org (scn4.scn.org [209.63.95.149]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02633 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:33:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from scn.org (bg006@scn [209.63.95.146]) by scn4.scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA27719 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bg006@localhost) by scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA27220; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:35:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:35:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903120435.UAA27220@scn.org> From: bg006@scn.org (Douglas Hendrickson) To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Grafting Wax Recipe containing Beeswax. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 Thanks Jim for forwarding this! > >>From University of California publication 1981 - leaflet 21103 >Division of Agricultural Sciences. >"Propagation of Temperate-Zone Fruit Plants" p. 47. > >GRAFTING WAXES AND OTHER GRAFTING MATERIALS > >'A satisfactory hot wax consists of 5 pounds of resin, three-quarter >pound of beeswax, half pint of raw linseed oil, 1 oz lampblack, and 1 >and a half oz of flake glue. Melt the resin first, then add and melt >the beeswax. Remove the mixture from the heat and stir in the linseed >oil and lampblack. Use a double boiler to heat the glue, use just >enough water to disolve the glue. Then add the glue slowly (while >stirring) to the wax, which has cooled somewhat but is still liquid. >If you add the glue too rapidly while the wax is still warm, the entire >mass will boil over. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 18:04:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22027 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:04:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA07095; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:51:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06932 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:49:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d141.infoserve.net [199.175.157.141]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19508 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:54:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001001be6da4$1875f3c0$8d9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:48:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 Dear John, Ferdy &bdnow, My father, Steven, worked in South America and West Africa in the 1950's. As an mining engineer on exploration on foot, he worked with several native groups. He found that most had never seen a toothbrush in their life but had perfect teeth while eating their traditional diets. My father came to the same conclusion, unscientifically. I have also read years ago how not only the teeth are affected by "processed" diet, but, there are other general health affects as well. One of the more well-known one is diabetes. Very high in the Canadian native populations. Directly linked to the white-man's diet. Michael -----Original Message----- From: John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 12:54 PM Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces >Dear Rex, Ferdinand, and others, > >One of the most powerful books I have found which connects nutrition with >dental health and/or dental degeneration is "NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL >DEGENERATION" by Weston A. Price DDS, 512 pages. > > In the early 1930s Dr. Price and his wife traveled to every corner of the >world to study the diets and health of 14 isolated native tribes in Africa, >South America, Australia, Polynesia, as well as North American Indians and >Eskimos. He compared the health of groups who only ate their historical >native diet with people of the same tribe who ate diets of commerce -- >white flour, white sugar, and processed foods. From the data, including >hundreds of photographs, the Prices produced one of the most significant >books on nutrition ever published. Its thesis, that the naturally chosen >"primitive" diet promoted health and that the modern "civilized" diet, led >to rapid degeneration of overall health and physical structure, was >revolutionary for its time and far from generally accepted. The wealth of >evidence and fascinating detail Dr. Price provides is as informative and >valuable today as it was half a century ago. His investigations showed >that it takes only one generation of eating a "Westernized" diet to produce >severe dental caries, malformed jawbones, and misaligned teeth. Dr. Price >practiced dentistry in Cleveland, Ohio. He died in 1948. The >Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation of San Diego was established to >disseminate his nutritional discoveries. > >> >>You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are >starting to lose their >>connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is >like an artist gone >>bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative >forces are 'painting' all >>over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and >that, funny enough are the >>teeth and the skull). Here > >Impaired connection with the formative forces show up in the teeth because >each tooth is energetically linked to all systems of the body via the >meridian pathways. Dr. Price's research showed that people who ate food >raised and prepared according to their native dietary traditions, almost >never had tooth decay or misaligned teeth. Even more interesting, was the >practice in these cultures of modifying the diet prior to conceiving >children. The diet was enhanced for both men and women to help the couple >have the forces that were needed to produce healthy children. > >thanks, John > > >St. George Farm >Freedom, Maine, USA > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 20:20:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23353 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:20:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA17229; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:09:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16939 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:07:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-75.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.75]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12019 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:09:47 +1100 Message-ID: <009501be6db7$4136b660$4b431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: Basalt dust Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:48:20 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 RE basalt dust. One aspect that I have learned of lately is that the paramagnetic quality is most important aspect. Phillip Callaghan has a machine out that tests this, and apparently you can be wasting your time and money if you don't use the rock dust with the higher paramagnetic qualities. The other point is that it must be 30 microns, (like talcum powder) to be absorbed easily by the soil. It is used a lot in Australian BD farms, as our soils are old and leached and desperately need re mineralising. Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Wm Hurrle To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, 14 March 1999 2:01 am Subject: Re: Basalt dust > >Dear All, > > Rock dusts: The magazine is Remineralize the Earth, 152 South St., >Northampton, MA 01060, 413-586-4429, -6064 fax, ReminEarth@aol.com. Three >issues a year for $25. This is 1996 information. > The Survival of Civilization by John D.Hamaker & Donald A. Weaver, ISBN >0-941550-00-1, Hamaker-Weaver Publishers, POB 1961, Seymour, MO 65746, $12. >This is a remarkable book. > The oldest information on the subject I know is the 1894 monograph, >Bread from Stones, by Julius Hensel. I got a mimeo copy translated from the >German from Health Research, POB 70, Mokelumene Hill, CA 95245. > Another source is The Enlivened Rock Powders by Harvey Lisle, 4427 State >Rt.601, Norwalk, OH 44857, $15 + $1.50 s&h. I've not read this book. ACRES, >usa, is into it. Christopher Bird also wrote about remineralization. I think >ATTRA has a publication on it, too. > Soil microbes need the widest menu of elements possible to be healthy. >Correct management of the carbon cycle is not enough. Since the last glacier >ground and distributed rock dust, precipitation and our lousy ag have >leached elements out of the soils. To keep them healthy rock dust >ammendments are needed. There are numbers of businesses devoted to supplying >special rock dust conditioners. The aggregate industry is aware of the ag >use of fines that are otherwise a drag on their operations. Contact the >state associations. Remin the Earth will send a list of them for $1 and a >SASE. There are outfits in Europe and Australia that sell minerals, too. > >Regards, > >Wm Hurrle > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 20:21:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23382 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:20:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA17154; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:09:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16938 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-75.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.75]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12016 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:09:43 +1100 Message-ID: <009401be6db7$3fa3e160$4b431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: spraying by air Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:37:01 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 Dear David, Your parachute idea sounds interesting. Spraying 500 on by air is done often in Australia and NZ on large areas. It is quite a set up getting the water heated and 500 stirred in a large enough quantity for the plane to fill up, but saves a lot of time and energy when covering 100s of hectares. There is one valley in NZ where about three famers join together to share the stirring, (by flowform) and one has the whole set up next to the airstrip, and they share the cost of the plane and get all their properties sprayed together. Their land is from mountain peaks to river flats, so would be very difficult to cover by tractor. They also make their own fish emulsion and spray that on as well. Hamish Mackay, who is a BD member in Australia hmackay@ozemail.com.au used to go around with the equipment to stir and would arrange flying on, so if you wanted further information he could help you. I like the idea of parachutes for 501, as one of the problems we have for say grain crops is if they are not sown in rows leaving tractor tracks, then it is hard to get the 501 out without damage to the crop. I will have to get more experiments done with the towers to see if that can help here too. We also need to look at ways to get sprays on when it is too wet to take the tractors out as has been happening here lately. David, how to you control the direction of the parachute? Is it like those remote controlled boats and planes? Sounds like a great idea for Australia, can you send me more info. Thanks, bio@midcoast.com.au Ferdinand thought that the droplets would be too fine or high to work, but all I know is that putting 500 on by air works, and I think they use quite a heavy spray to get the droplets to earth. Great idea, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 ---Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, 14 March 1999 12:58 am Subject: Re: spraying by air >It probably is a shortcoming of my own that there is no 'introductory >statement' required for joining the BD Now! community. (Of course, a great >many people prefer that!) In a case like David Griffith's, this shortcoming >becomes glaring. > >For those of you who do not know, David is the founder/owner/manager of 7 >Stars Farm in Kimberton (OK, you knew that much) David and his family make >the absolute best yogurt (Seven Stars) that you can buy in a health food >store. (The thick cream on the top of the original version is a dream to we >Sally Fallon fans!! :-) 7 Stars also makes several wonderful varieties of >cheeses, but these, as far as I know, are not distrubted commercially. > >David knows what he is doing with BD, the proof is in his 'pudding.' > >All this makes the question below all the more interesting! > >David, I have to ask: how much acreage do you prep yearly and how often do >you spray a farm that is as well established as yours? > >-Allan Balliett >moderator >BD Now! >igg@igg.com > > > >>I am looking into spraying preps by powered parachutes. These are slow moving >>(26 mph), relatively safe, high payload (800 -1000 lbs), and not too >>expensive. The idea would be to use a boomless jet and an electric diaphram >>pump to deliver about 2 to 3 gal./acre from about 50 -60 ft above the ground >>(out of the way of lines and trees). Spaying times would be early morning >>(501) and early evenings (500). Any comments or suggestions? David Griffiths >>Seven Stars Farm, Kimberton PA > > > > >=========================================================================== > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food >that promotes human development. > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > >listproc@envirolink.org > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > >subscribe bdnow > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 21:07:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23683 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:07:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA20932; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:53:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA20751 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:51:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.84]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990314015430.WRFB682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:54:30 +1300 Message-ID: <36EB170F.CEA@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:55:27 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: zodiac -help-glen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 > Dear Glen- Parker did you read the article I posted on this subject a couple of weeks ago? > Oh how I wrestle and am fascinated with the planting calendar. I'm trying to understand the concept that I copy below. If every 72 > years we drop 1 degree, after 2000 I figure we would drop 1 degree 27.777 times. Now forgive me for being a fool but did the Greek > calendar start with O A.D., I must say when I think about it I do not really know. I had always considered our calendar was created by the Romans. It would not have been orientated to the Christs birth until 300AD or so when the roman emporers became Christian. The adoption of the tropical zodiac in modern times was initiated by Ptolemy ( a greek) in around 200AD as I understand it (AIUI). It was not specifical connected to the christ. It was more an orientating on the spring equinox of the Earth as a time frame and 12 fold division of the Earth, rather than a twelvefold orientation to the constellations. This is an 'Earthing' action as I am sure you can imagine. I understand the tropical zodiac was used in Eygpt prior to the Greeks. So this is just a renewal of an old system. The act of moving a universal law to another reference point is a very common astrological practise. AIUI it was more a coincidence that Ptolemy noticed the spring equinox was 200 years prior to himself and that it feel at the time of Christ birth than a conscious action. A touch of universal synchronisty one might say. Ptolemy was the first guy to measure the movement of the stars in relationship to one another for some hundreds of years and so would have come across such a thing. and how did Mrs. Henderson get 2000 years in 1989. sorry not sure what you are talking about here. So where are we actually right now in 1999, The piece you quoted said the spring equinox is at 16 degrees Pisces. Is this a miss print. I hope so, or the BDANZ have done it again - out there in their own belief of the truth. There are three systems of constellational division as I understand it. The most common ones AIUI are a equal division of the zodiac using Alderbaren and Antares as the mid points of Taurus and Scorpio. An unequal system based on this same starting point, and another unequal division the BDANZ ensures us is accepted by the international Astronomical union. The first has us about 3 deg Pisces, the second about 4 degress and the third I understand is between 6-7 degrees. Changeover is between 216 years and 504 years. There are all sorts of debates that arise from this of course. As if we have uneven constellations then we will have uneven ages of evolution as well and if this is so, then our neat little maths of each age lasting 2156 years is only based on an equal division reality. An assiduous study of ancient history would be needed to pinpoint the exact dates of age changes. Till now it is very easy for us to use the 2156 years per age, math. This may easily be the case of course. and what > does this say for a person born December 3 of 1966. Am I not really a Sagittarius? You are a sign of Sagittarius and a constellation of Scorpio person. You are both Interestingly you are a 10 degree Sagittarius. Pluto is conjuncting you right now and moving over a strong part of your chart in the next couple of years. Might I suggest you seek out a good local Astrologer and go and have a chat to them about what this can mean for you. We also come onto what is the sign area of your being and what is the constellation area. refer my earlier article. Essentially the sign being is the chart of the incarnated spirt and the constellational chart is the chart of the unincarnated aspects of yourself, still with the universal spirit. Very unconscious stuff usually. You are both. This same sort of definition can be seen between the Geocentric or earth centre chart and the helio centred or Sun centred chart. So that the Geocentric Tropical chart is a real earth incarnation bound chart, while the Sidereal heliocentric chart is a major spiritual chart. And there are several inbetween charts one can used to see different snap shots of the same being. This could shake some things up for me, I have > thought myself to be so typical of a Fire sign. Will I have to change my ways? On earth you probably are , as you develop spiritually (on earth) you will become more of a scorpio. The spiritual chart appears to come from inside out while the material chart appears to come form outside in. Life is the balance of the two. As always all is one. I hope this helps your quest. Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 03:44:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA29259 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 03:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA14571; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 03:30:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14506 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 03:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0114.direct.ca ([204.244.83.14] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10M6JL-00033e-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 00:31:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36EB7340.5D6358EC@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 00:28:48 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: A smelly Subject and goat horns References: <01BE6BBF.FAFA8440@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 Dear Martha, Bury the horns in your compost for about 3 months (make sure no dog can get it). Once the inside of the horn has decayed, we will talk about it again. Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > When I milk my goats, I tend to give them the sniff test. Breath, hide, > (just a random quick check to make sure everyone is in 'working order'.) > You know by the breath if the rumen is off kilter, and if the hair / hide > isn't healthy, the animal has been ill for awhile. Their healthy skin > always smell like pure sunshine to me. I have a very small tomato I plant > not because I like the fruit so much, but the plant smells exactly like > healthy horse sweat! > I haven't had cause to sniff any livestock in a confined stall situation, > but I imagine they would have a stale odor. I HAVE driven past broiler > 'factories', and you can't drive fast enough or hold your nose long enough. > How do the people who live/work those places stand it? Not to mention the > animals they're attempting to raise. > For Allan, the horn topic: > (I know it's the other end you are worried about, but this is a 'fer > instance': > Just hauled Amelia to the vet, a 3 yr old milker and the only one with > horns. She was pretty good about not getting caught in the fences with > them, but she did use them on the other goats. Our herd queen is 14 yrs > old, and when Amelia vied for queen spot and knocked Mesmerizer for a loop, > I said, they're OFF. Vet charge: $24.50, not bad, but the drugs (rompum, > some antibiotic, some other inflammatory stuff, will remain in her milk for > a couple of weeks. She'll be off milk production now for about that long, > and the risk of knocking a ruminant out is always very high. So, if you > think you might ever want to dehorn a goat, don't wait till it's a regret, > do it while they're babies and won't remember too much. If you have small > children around pet goats, you'll always have to watch the horns. A nose, > an eye, little hands all can get hooked by accident. > For Ferdinand: I now have 2 rather fresh goat horns but they're still > filled with 'chalk', how do I clean them and should I bother? (martha) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 06:56:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA03528 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:56:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA20714; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:42:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20500 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:39:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.150] (pm3shep2-163-85.intrepid.net [209.190.163.85]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12587 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:42:16 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:44:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 remove bdnow julie tyling@algonet.se add bdnow julie donnas@yancey.main.nc.us Donna Shalooie remove bdnow julie p-dwyer@aloha.net add bdnow julie livepower@igc.apc.org gloria decater From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 07:08:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA03795 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA21267; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21107 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:51:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.150] (pm3shep2-163-85.intrepid.net [209.190.163.85]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13335 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:53:49 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:55:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 delete bdnow tubbo tyling@algonet.se delete bdnow tubbo p-dwyer@aloha.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 07:11:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA03881 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:11:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA21401; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:57:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21290 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:54:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.150] (pm3shep2-163-85.intrepid.net [209.190.163.85]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13601 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:57:18 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:59:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: Routing Test Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 08:03:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA04929 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23202; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:48:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA23102 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:44:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p00-93.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.248]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id GAA29962 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:47:37 -0600 Message-ID: <000f01be6e29$cbcd5aa0$f8f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: zodiac -help-glen Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:47:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Dear Glen- Thanks much for the info. I'm not sure I recall the article, would you be able to send it my way via e-mail? Very interesting, the notion that spiritually I could be moving toward Scorpio, I will have to read some of Scorpio. I will also look up a local astrologer, the Pluto conjucting me worries me some. Take care, Parker -----Original Message----- From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 5:57 PM Subject: zodiac -help-glen >> Dear Glen- > >Parker did you read the article I posted on this subject a couple of >weeks ago? > > >> Oh how I wrestle and am fascinated with the planting calendar. I'm trying to understand the concept that I copy below. If every 72 >> years we drop 1 degree, after 2000 I figure we would drop 1 degree 27.777 times. Now forgive me for being a fool but did the Greek >> calendar start with O A.D., > > >I must say when I think about it I do not really know. I had always >considered our calendar was created by the Romans. It would not have >been orientated to the Christs birth until 300AD or so when the roman >emporers became Christian. > >The adoption of the tropical zodiac in modern times was initiated by >Ptolemy ( a greek) in around 200AD as I understand it (AIUI). It was not >specifical connected to the christ. It was more an orientating on the >spring equinox of the Earth as a time frame and 12 fold division of the >Earth, rather than a twelvefold orientation to the constellations. This >is an 'Earthing' action as I am sure you can imagine. > >I understand the tropical zodiac was used in Eygpt prior to the Greeks. >So this is just a renewal of an old system. The act of moving a >universal law to another reference point is a very common astrological >practise. > >AIUI it was more a coincidence that Ptolemy noticed the spring equinox >was 200 years prior to himself and that it feel at the time of Christ >birth than a conscious action. A touch of universal synchronisty one >might say. Ptolemy was the first guy to measure the movement of the >stars in relationship to one another for some hundreds of years and so >would have come across such a thing. > > > and how did Mrs. Henderson get 2000 years in 1989. > >sorry not sure what you are talking about here. > > So where are we actually right now in 1999, > > > >The piece you quoted said the spring equinox is at 16 degrees Pisces. > >Is this a miss print. I hope so, or the BDANZ have done it again - out >there in their own belief of the truth. > >There are three systems of constellational division as I understand it. >The most common ones AIUI are a equal division of the zodiac using >Alderbaren and Antares as the mid points of Taurus and Scorpio. An >unequal system based on this same starting point, and another unequal >division the BDANZ ensures us is accepted by the international >Astronomical union. The first has us about 3 deg Pisces, the second >about 4 degress and the third I understand is between 6-7 degrees. >Changeover is between 216 years and 504 years. > >There are all sorts of debates that arise from this of course. As if we >have uneven constellations then we will have uneven ages of evolution as >well and if this is so, then our neat little maths of each age lasting >2156 years is only based on an equal division reality. An assiduous >study of ancient history would be needed to pinpoint the exact dates of >age changes. Till now it is very easy for us to use the 2156 years per >age, math. This may easily be the case of course. > > > >and what >> does this say for a person born December 3 of 1966. Am I not really a Sagittarius? > >You are a sign of Sagittarius and a constellation of Scorpio person. You >are both > >Interestingly you are a 10 degree Sagittarius. Pluto is conjuncting you >right now and moving over a strong part of your chart in the next couple >of years. Might I suggest you seek out a good local Astrologer and go >and have a chat to them about what this can mean for you. > >We also come onto what is the sign area of your being and what is the >constellation area. refer my earlier article. Essentially the sign being >is the chart of the incarnated spirt and the constellational chart is >the chart of the unincarnated aspects of yourself, still with the >universal spirit. Very unconscious stuff usually. You are both. > >This same sort of definition can be seen between the Geocentric or earth >centre chart and the helio centred or Sun centred chart. So that the >Geocentric Tropical chart is a real earth incarnation bound chart, while >the Sidereal heliocentric chart is a major spiritual chart. And there >are several inbetween charts one can used to see different snap shots of >the same being. > > This could shake some things up for me, I have >> thought myself to be so typical of a Fire sign. Will I have to change my ways? > >On earth you probably are , as you develop spiritually (on earth) you >will become more of a scorpio. > >The spiritual chart appears to come from inside out while the material >chart appears to come form outside in. Life is the balance of the two. >As always all is one. > > >I hope this helps your quest. > >Cheers > >Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 08:54:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA05987 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA25165; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:40:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25045 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:37:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.150] (pm3shep1-163-23.intrepid.net [209.190.163.23]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23518 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:40:07 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:42:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF:Richard Alan Miller Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 Please let me know if you've taken a workshop or attended a lecture by herbalist Richard Alan Miller. Thank you, -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 09:47:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07920 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA28014; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:34:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27847 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:31:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.21]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:34:56 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:34:02 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: March 13, 1999 - March 19, 1999 Message-ID: <6B6FD883D158C0EF85256734004FFFBE.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id JAA27848 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 Calendar of the Soul [March 13, 1999 - March 19, 1999] Forty-ninth Week (March 9-15) I feel the force of cosmic life: Thus speaks my clarity of thought, Recalling its own spirit growth Through nights of cosmic darkness, And to the new approach of cosmic day It turns its inward rays of hope. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Ich fühle Kraft des Weltenseins: So spricht Gedankenklarheit, Gedenkend eignen Geistes Wachsen In finstern Weltennächten, Und neigt dem nahen Weltentage Des Innen Hoffnungsstrahlen. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+49 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 11:48:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11531 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:48:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA06350; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:36:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from dns1.mcn.org (root@dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06104 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:33:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from 204.189.12.80 (ha-3e-men-m045.mcn.org [204.189.12.80]) by dns1.mcn.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA23443 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:36:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EB75F4.5F8F@mcn.org> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:40:20 +0000 From: Kate Clarke Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Foxglove Farm (707) 937-4116 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: COTS: March 13, 1999 - March 19, 1999 References: <6B6FD883D158C0EF85256734004FFFBE.0000000000000000@webcity> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Dear Jane, Could you mail us the next few weeks of planting info from the Calander of Souls. I jut sent the order in for one but really need the info ASAP. Our greenhouses are full of starts and we need to get on the next round. Where do you farm? We are part of the Northern Ca. Family of farms, just sixteen miles from the coast. To all in the BD family; come visit as Mendocino is a paradise! We have camping, for a small fee, and incredible dinners all summer long. Join staff and crew at Foxglove Farm. Write for a brochure, Foxglove Farm, Box 143 Comptche, Ca. 95427 Thanks, Kate Clark From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 11:56:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11788 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA06997; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:45:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06865 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:44:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max4-24.stc.net [208.210.132.152]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28839 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:46:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36DAEDA6.4CA8BBBC@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:28:05 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: The sun as a Being calling forth the earth's warmth Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 >Dear friends, > >Every spring, every summer and throughout the whole year I work with a >question that simply does not get out of my mind. > >Does the sun really send down warmth (via its rays)? > >There are many observations that contradict this theory. And here is one >that I made in the past days> As you know it's been snowing like make - >for days. By now, and at 30 degrees Farenheit - we should have about >(lets say several) feet of snow. Yet, every morning only a few inches, >if that, have remained. > >So, could it be that the sun, actually, is calling forth the warmth of >the earth? Could it be that, like Dr. Steiner indicated that the water >of the seven seas wishes to go back to the moon, hence following it (and >not being attracted) the warmth of the earth wishes to follow the sun, >too? Could it be that what is living inside the earth, what has come >from the sun, is homesick and wishes to return home - E.T. GO HOME >(forgive me for this blurr...) SUNLIGHT GO HOME....!>!......... and, as >it is oozing tto the surface of the earth, is melting the snow from >underneath? > >Could it be what Dr. Pfeiffer has observed, that the sunlight, the sun's >warmth streaming into the earth at about 9m per day (27 - 30' per day) >that this light, transformed into warmth, wishes to go home again. > >Mysteries over mysteries. The sun is coming back. And, Dr. STeiner makes >it very clear that Persephone, the daughter of Demeter, is coming to the >surface of the earth again - how? look at the green shoots, look at the >emerging leaves, look at the flowers, the grain, the buds: she's >arriving. All the best Ferdinand Ferdy, Ever notice how when you cover up a patch in winter it stays green underneath, but do that in summer and it's dead in a weeK? That's holding the sun into the earth. I can't say for sure, but the earth does seem to give off heat and light when the sun strikes it. It does come from the surface upwards. Hope these observations help. Hugh >-- > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- > >FRIENDS: >To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows >(feedlots, AI, hormones, >excessive use of antibioticas, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage >etc.), 1999 is: >MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, >references, statistics >or your personal observations and stories related to cows. >I thank you for your help. Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 11:58:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11835 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:58:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07085; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:46:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06886 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:44:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max4-24.stc.net [208.210.132.152]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28889 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:46:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36DB498D.154B8C73@direct.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:45:43 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 >WITHOUT PREJUDICE > > >Dear Geoff, > >I do not want to get involved in a law case here; although it would be rather >difficult to make a case. Last year, however, I was threatened by Greg Willis >because I sent him a picture of 'a ram's head' that I needed to make >Preparation #505. I thought that he, too, was an able, well versed and >informed Preparation maker. I sent the same picture to other BDNOW addresses. > >Greg took my post as a personal attack and threatened me with the RCMP, the >FBI and a monster law case. Things got so badly out of hand that I stepped >back from any further contact with Greg Willis. > >However, a few months later, someone emailed me a letter with certain attacks >on Greg Willis and I defended him since I felt that a lot of things that were >said in this post could not be verified or were (likely) wrong. By mistake I >emailed this letter, to Greg - whereupon Greg immediately came back, argued my >defense (how shortsighted I was - that I did not know etc. etc.) yet, he asked >me whether I would want to become his spiritual student etc. etc. He also >included a few lessons of what I had to do in order to be accepted. > >I did not know what to do and sent him a nice reply; basically turning down >his offer. I did not want to offend him. He followed up by telling me that I, >under no circumstances, was ready for him and that I would have to work on >myself for many more years. It became offensive yet again. > >Well, I really do not need to be a student to a man who threatened me with all >kinds of stuff and who used foulest language against me. So, do I need to say >more? > >Of course, we are on a continent on which free speech is protected (- in the >US - I forget which XYZ Amendment), and that is beautiful. But I do not need >to be 'amended' by any personal attack(s) - and that is that. > >There are other statements of Greg's that do not fit BD; I do not have the >time to play detective. He is 'free' to say what he thinks and whoever uses >his info will have to check it him/herself (as should be done with any info >that comes across the Web and BDNOW) We all are exposed to a variety of >challenges (mental, physical, financial etc. etc.) and Greg has his, I am >sure. > >I understand that there may be a person (or two) on this list that communicate >with Greg Willis on a regular basis; and I hear that they are preparing a case >against those who, apparently, attack him slanderously. I do not know of any >slanderous attacks on Greg Willis. His attacks on me have been composted and >are, now, well rotted. > >With kind regards: Ferdinand Vondruska > > >PS I am pretty sure I never sent that quote via BDNOW! Where did you get it >from? > >Geoff Heinricks wrote: > >> >Agsyn.com is working with Greg Willis and, as far as I am concerned, many >> >things >> >are amiss there. Regards Ferdinand >> >> Ferdinand, >> >> >From what I've seen, you're not one to shy away from fully outlining your >> reasons. I'd appreciate your thoughts on how and why you've come to this >> conclusion. >> >> Cheers, >> Geoff Heinricks >> Prince Edward Co >> Ontario > > > >-- > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- > >FRIENDS: >To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows >(feedlots, AI, hormones, >excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), >1999 is: >MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, >references, statistics >or your personal observations and stories related to cows. >I thank you for your help. Dear Greg, Seems unseamsly lawsuits and all, But keep me informed. Hugh Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 11:58:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11859 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:58:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07274; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:48:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06896 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:44:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max4-24.stc.net [208.210.132.152]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28904 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:47:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38a9623a.36dc0363@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:59:04 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Study L3:2 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 >To Margaret Kemp: >In answer to your question I am enlarging the quote from "The Work of the >Angels in Man's Astral Body", R.Steiner. Although it has more social focus, I >did find a certain "nitrogen" quality therein. By the way, the booklet is >normally available from Anthroposphic Press, temporarily out of print >Christine >(abbreviated, pages 8-10) >...these beings form pictures in the human astral body. Under the guidance of >the Spirits of Form (Exusiai) the Angels form pictures. Unless we reach the >level of imaginative cognition we do not know that pictures are all the time >being formed in our astral body. They rise and pass away, burt without them >there would be no evolution into the future...The Spirits of Form are obliged >to unfold in pictures to begin with what they desire to achieve with us during >Earth evolution and beyond. And then later on, the pictures become reality in >a humanity transformed...If we are able to scrutinize these pictures, it >becomes evident that they are woven in accordance with quite definite impulses >and principles...it is clear that they have a very definite plan for the >future configuration of social life on earth...And indeed in forming these >pictures the Angels work on a definite principle, namely, that in the future >no human being is to find peace in the enjoyment of happiness if others are >unhappy. An impulse of brother and sisterhood in the absolute sense...is to be >the governing principle of the social conditions in physical existence. That >is the one principle in accordance with which the angels form the pictures in >our astral body. But there is a second impulse...that in future times every >human being shall see in each and everyone a hidden divinity. Hidden this thro-response. Shucks. Hugh Lovel Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 12:00:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11923 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:00:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07419; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:49:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06921 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:44:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max4-24.stc.net [208.210.132.152]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28942 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:47:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:46:04 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: agsyn.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 >FORWARD: Sent to "webmaster@envirolink.org" and myself today. Your >suggestion, please. -AB > > > >Allan, > >Well, you've really taken BDNOW to a new low by printing this letter >from Ferdy. I hope you're proud of your accomplishment. Ferdy may, or >may not, be hearing from our attorneys just yet but I will bring this >incident up with our attorneys this week to consider what action we >might appropriately take against your ISP, you personally and BDNOW for >printing such unfounded lies and slander. > >I warned you about this last week and you refused to stop it though I >asked you several times to do so. We will take every legal action >available to us to remedy the harm that has been done and to assure that >it does not happen in the future. > >Greg Willis > >******* > >Message-ID: <36DB498D.154B8C73@direct.ca> >Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 18:14:38 -0800 >From: Ferdinand Vondruska >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greg, You've got to develop thicker skin.This flying off the handle is pointless and counterproductive, isn't it? Hugh Lovel >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >WITHOUT PREJUDICE > > >Dear Geoff, > >I do not want to get involved in a law case here; although it would be >rather >difficult to make a case. Last year, however, I was threatened by Greg >Willis >because I sent him a picture of 'a ram's head' that I needed to make >Preparation #505. I thought that he, too, was an able, well versed and >informed Preparation maker. I sent the same picture to other BDNOW >addresses. > >Greg took my post as a personal attack and threatened me with the RCMP, >the >FBI and a monster law case. Things got so badly out of hand that I >stepped >back from any further contact with Greg Willis. > >However, a few months later, someone emailed me a letter with certain >attacks >on Greg Willis and I defended him since I felt that a lot of things that >were >said in this post could not be verified or were (likely) wrong. By >mistake I >emailed this letter, to Greg - whereupon Greg immediately came back, >argued my >defense (how shortsighted I was - that I did not know etc. etc.) yet, he >asked >me whether I would want to become his spiritual student etc. etc. He >also >included a few lessons of what I had to do in order to be accepted. > >I did not know what to do and sent him a nice reply; basically turning >down >his offer. I did not want to offend him. He followed up by telling me >that I, >under no circumstances, was ready for him and that I would have to work >on >myself for many more years. It became offensive yet again. > >Well, I really do not need to be a student to a man who threatened me >with all >kinds of stuff and who used foulest language against me. So, do I need >to say >more? > >Of course, we are on a continent on which free speech is protected (- >in the >US - I forget which XYZ Amendment), and that is beautiful. But I do not >need >to be 'amended' by any personal attack(s) - and that is that. > >There are other statements of Greg's that do not fit BD; I do not have >the >time to play detective. He is 'free' to say what he thinks and whoever >uses >his info will have to check it him/herself (as should be done with any >info >that comes across the Web and BDNOW) We all are exposed to a variety of >challenges (mental, physical, financial etc. etc.) and Greg has his, I >am >sure. > >I understand that there may be a person (or two) on this list that >communicate >with Greg Willis on a regular basis; and I hear that they are preparing >a case >against those who, apparently, attack him slanderously. I do not know of >any >slanderous attacks on Greg Willis. His attacks on me have been composted >and >are, now, well rotted. > >With kind regards: Ferdinand Vondruska > > >PS I am pretty sure I never sent that quote via BDNOW! Where did you get >it >from? Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:00:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13928 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:00:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11706; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:48:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11537 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:46:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0104.direct.ca ([204.244.83.4] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MF0P-0002Dc-00; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:48:54 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBF5BD.EC04576F@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:45:33 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org, "Hirschnitz, Michaela" Subject: Re: earthworm curiosity References: <01BE6A09.342459C0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Dear Martha, I am not an earthworm specialist; but worms are really attracted to areas where they can do a job, mate and proliferate. As long as the killing off is less than the result of their mating process, they will be there for a long time to come. When I look at the composting area and what punishment they have to take there, then, I am constantly surprised that they continue to stay and work. It reminds me of a time of this earth (as Steiner describes) when this earth was a fertile mass of swampy material. Of course, a tranquil, shadowy and moisty place would be the very best (and, mind you, I do find the fattest and somehow wisest worms in these grounds - kind of Grandfathers) But, the 'young folks' (so it appears) like to be where the action is: where we dump manure, where we pile it, where the animals drop their manure, where the soil is being moved, where there is a lot of putrification, also smell etc.. And so they shift around, constantly. But the true mating areas, I come to understand, are in sections of the composting ground where there is silence, tranquility, moisture and calm (but smelly) putrification. And then, there seems to be the graveyard, too. When summer approaches and the lot has to go deeper down, two feet or so in order to either dye or hybernate (or summernate). A drought is tough on worms. REgards Ferdinand PS my spell checker has gone on the blink (at least for this post) .....so, take it from here. Martha Wells wrote: > I have 2 little earthworm bins in my kitchen, just doing a great job on the > refuse we have to toss. I am curious, tho. I started with one bin, and they > happily mated and grew and I had to separate them after ... about 3 months > of 'work'. > I understand that earthworms key on vibrations, and people walking over > their pat of soil keeps them edgy. So, why, then, are mine so productive in > an obviously hi traffic area? I have a 17 yr old cat who warms the top bin > by sleeping on there 90% of the day, I'd think that would unnerve them too. > Are there any earthworm specialists onboard? > (martha) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:05:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14110 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:05:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12306; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:54:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12225 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:54:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0104.direct.ca ([204.244.83.4] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MF7w-0002do-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:56:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBF78F.A40C395F@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:53:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Health & teeth References: <001001be6da4$1875f3c0$8d9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 Banding, docking, de-horning & etheric etc. Friends, I dare changing the Subject title because it has gone far beyond what it has started out with. Hope you do n't mind. Michael Roboz wrote: > Dear John, Ferdy &bdnow, > > My father, Steven, worked in South America and West Africa in the 1950's. > As an mining engineer on exploration on foot, he worked with several native > groups. He found that most had never seen a toothbrush in their life but > had perfect teeth while eating their traditional diets. My father came to > the same conclusion, unscientifically. > I have also read years ago how not only the teeth are affected by > "processed" diet, but, there are other general health affects as well. One > of the more well-known one is diabetes. Very high in the Canadian native > populations. Directly linked to the white-man's diet. > Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces > > >Dear Rex, Ferdinand, and others, > > > >One of the most powerful books I have found which connects nutrition with > >dental health and/or dental degeneration is "NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL > >DEGENERATION" by Weston A. Price DDS, 512 pages. > > > > In the early 1930s Dr. Price and his wife traveled to every corner of the > >world to study the diets and health of 14 isolated native tribes in Africa, > >South America, Australia, Polynesia, as well as North American Indians and > >Eskimos. He compared the health of groups who only ate their historical > >native diet with people of the same tribe who ate diets of commerce -- > >white flour, white sugar, and processed foods. From the data, including > >hundreds of photographs, the Prices produced one of the most significant > >books on nutrition ever published. Its thesis, that the naturally chosen > >"primitive" diet promoted health and that the modern "civilized" diet, led > >to rapid degeneration of overall health and physical structure, was > >revolutionary for its time and far from generally accepted. The wealth of > >evidence and fascinating detail Dr. Price provides is as informative and > >valuable today as it was half a century ago. His investigations showed > >that it takes only one generation of eating a "Westernized" diet to produce > >severe dental caries, malformed jawbones, and misaligned teeth. Dr. Price > >practiced dentistry in Cleveland, Ohio. He died in 1948. The > >Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation of San Diego was established to > >disseminate his nutritional discoveries. > > > >> > >>You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are > >starting to lose their > >>connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is > >like an artist gone > >>bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative > >forces are 'painting' all > >>over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and > >that, funny enough are the > >>teeth and the skull). Here > > > >Impaired connection with the formative forces show up in the teeth because > >each tooth is energetically linked to all systems of the body via the > >meridian pathways. Dr. Price's research showed that people who ate food > >raised and prepared according to their native dietary traditions, almost > >never had tooth decay or misaligned teeth. Even more interesting, was the > >practice in these cultures of modifying the diet prior to conceiving > >children. The diet was enhanced for both men and women to help the couple > >have the forces that were needed to produce healthy children. > > > >thanks, John > > > > > >St. George Farm > >Freedom, Maine, USA > > > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:14:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14352 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:14:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA13142; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:03:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12897 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:01:33 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hAKEa16736 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:03:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1614df54.36ebf9f3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:03:31 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ADMIN: Routing Test Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 yyy From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:23:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14666 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:23:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14016; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:13:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13788 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:10:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MFOD-0004j7-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:13:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBFBF3.E746E04A@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:12:03 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: spraying by air, a licence & the forests in need References: <009401be6db7$3fa3e160$4b431ccb@bio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 Well, well! This gives me new ideas. My son is a pilot. So, there we may fly to get 501 (and perhaps 500) onto the forests. God, there is always something new out there. However, we would have to do it with a Cessna 180 from the nearby airport. Let me add this: spraying ANYTHING is strictly controlled here in Canada and you need a licence. So, before any of you take off with gallons of 500 (or 501) - my son says - get the permit. You may not only lose your pilot's licence but end in jail. And, transporting 'water' is a tricky business in any flying machine. Once the containers are half empty, you'll find them shifting. My pilot licence has expired so, my son will have to do it. Nevertheless, large areas, (likely much larger than anyting) are the forests in need of BD. Personally, I will return to the small acreage and look up when the droplets come down and meditate. My heart will pounce when I see my son swooping down with the good news (500 and/or 501). Regards Ferdinand Cheryl Kemp wrote: > Dear David, > Your parachute idea sounds interesting. Spraying 500 on by air is done > often in Australia and NZ on large areas. It is quite a set up getting the > water heated and 500 stirred in a large enough quantity for the plane to > fill up, but saves a lot of time and energy when covering 100s of hectares. > There is one valley in NZ where about three famers join together to share > the stirring, (by flowform) and one has the whole set up next to the > airstrip, and they share the cost of the plane and get all their properties > sprayed together. Their land is from mountain peaks to river flats, so > would be very difficult to cover by tractor. They also make their own fish > emulsion and spray that on as well. > Hamish Mackay, who is a BD member in Australia hmackay@ozemail.com.au > used to go around with the equipment to stir and would arrange flying on, so > if you wanted further information he could help you. > I like the idea of parachutes for 501, as one of the problems we have for > say grain crops is if they are not sown in rows leaving tractor tracks, then > it is hard to get the 501 out without damage to the crop. I will have to > get more experiments done with the towers to see if that can help here too. > We also need to look at ways to get sprays on when it is too wet to take the > tractors out as has been happening here lately. > David, how to you control the direction of the parachute? Is it like those > remote controlled boats and planes? Sounds like a great idea for Australia, > can you send me more info. Thanks, bio@midcoast.com.au > > Ferdinand thought that the droplets would be too fine or high to work, but > all I know is that putting 500 on by air works, and I think they use quite a > heavy spray to get the droplets to earth. > Great idea, > Cheryl Kemp > Education & Advisory Coordinator > Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. > of Australia Inc. > P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) > 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) > Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 > > ---Original Message----- > From: Intergalactic Garage > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Sunday, 14 March 1999 12:58 am > Subject: Re: spraying by air > > >It probably is a shortcoming of my own that there is no 'introductory > >statement' required for joining the BD Now! community. (Of course, a great > >many people prefer that!) In a case like David Griffith's, this shortcoming > >becomes glaring. > > > >For those of you who do not know, David is the founder/owner/manager of 7 > >Stars Farm in Kimberton (OK, you knew that much) David and his family make > >the absolute best yogurt (Seven Stars) that you can buy in a health food > >store. (The thick cream on the top of the original version is a dream to we > >Sally Fallon fans!! :-) 7 Stars also makes several wonderful varieties of > >cheeses, but these, as far as I know, are not distrubted commercially. > > > >David knows what he is doing with BD, the proof is in his 'pudding.' > > > >All this makes the question below all the more interesting! > > > >David, I have to ask: how much acreage do you prep yearly and how often do > >you spray a farm that is as well established as yours? > > > >-Allan Balliett > >moderator > >BD Now! > >igg@igg.com > > > > > > > >>I am looking into spraying preps by powered parachutes. These are slow > moving > >>(26 mph), relatively safe, high payload (800 -1000 lbs), and not too > >>expensive. The idea would be to use a boomless jet and an electric > diaphram > >>pump to deliver about 2 to 3 gal./acre from about 50 -60 ft above the > ground > >>(out of the way of lines and trees). Spaying times would be early morning > >>(501) and early evenings (500). Any comments or suggestions? David > Griffiths > >>Seven Stars Farm, Kimberton PA > > > > > > > > > >=========================================================================== > > > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, > >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food > >that promotes human development. > > > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > > > >listproc@envirolink.org > > > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > > > >subscribe bdnow > > > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > > > > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:26:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14758 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:26:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14276; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:15:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14090 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:13:30 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hCANa11723 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:15:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:15:18 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: OFF: re signs and constellations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 (NOTE: this transmission may have been incomplete, so we are sending it again.) Dear Friends, After a lecture in Helsinki, April 11, 1912, to the astonishment of the participants, Rudolf Steiner distributed a booklet entitled "In the Year 1879 Following the Birth of the Ego." One part of this booklet is well known to us as the weekly Calendar of the Soul. The other aspects of the 1912 calendar are virtually unknown to the English speaking world. What follows is drawn from the German, from various writings. In addition to the Soul Calendar the booklet consisted of a daily calendar with the year beginning at Easter, and reckoning time not from "AD 1" but 33 years later, the date of the crucifixion and resurrection. Steiner explained that our time reckoning should begin at that moment in the earth evolution, Easter 33, "when the ego was first born." This was to be a calendar, not for any particular sect or nation, but for all mankind. Other features of the calendar included: 1. A listing of births and deaths of significant historical personalities 2. The SUN's path traveling through the CONSTELLATIONS with accompanying totally new illustrations 3. The MOON's path, but this time in relation to the SIGNS, also with small illustrations, different to those of the sun constellations. Rudolf Steiner acknowledges both signs and constellations in his frequent mentions of the stars. To state, as many people today do, that the signs no longer have any validity seems to us not to be correct. Both have validity, but in different ways. Guenther Wachsmuth (a contemporary of Steiner and member of the original Board of the Goetheanum) has indicated that for the human being the signs have more to do with the physical/etheric and the constellations more with astral/ego., also that the signs have more to do with the earthly incarnation and the constellations with pre-birth and after-death. Happy New Year 1966! Finbarr & Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 13:42:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA15188 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:42:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16054; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:30:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15685 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:27:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MFeg-0005RN-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:30:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBFFF0.E7FCADD5@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:29:04 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces & THE HEALTH OF TEETH References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19990313151549.007b4300@midcoast.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 You know what is funny? Our children grew up with whatever natural food we could get. We baked our bread ourselves, kept to a close vegetarian (or if and when meat, the best) diet. Best milk. Brushing teeth. Eating morning and evening Weleda Calcium. Vegetables etc. etc. you name it. Steiner education. Rhythmical life. Yet, the teeth still took a beating (i.e. the deformation of the skull). So, personally, I am of the opinion, there is more than meets the eye. I really believe that if and when Westernized food is being introduced it is not the food but the thinking behind it. I met a nurse in New York some years ago who ate the most dreadful food you could think of and who had the shyniest teeth I had ever seen. What was the answer I asked her? Oh, cleaning my teeth regularly and being happy, thankful and joyful. I think her answer helped me a lot. Regards Ferdinand "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" wrote: > Dear Rex, Ferdinand, and others, > > One of the most powerful books I have found which connects nutrition with > dental health and/or dental degeneration is "NUTRITION AND PHYSICAL > DEGENERATION" by Weston A. Price DDS, 512 pages. > > In the early 1930s Dr. Price and his wife traveled to every corner of the > world to study the diets and health of 14 isolated native tribes in Africa, > South America, Australia, Polynesia, as well as North American Indians and > Eskimos. He compared the health of groups who only ate their historical > native diet with people of the same tribe who ate diets of commerce -- > white flour, white sugar, and processed foods. From the data, including > hundreds of photographs, the Prices produced one of the most significant > books on nutrition ever published. Its thesis, that the naturally chosen > "primitive" diet promoted health and that the modern "civilized" diet, led > to rapid degeneration of overall health and physical structure, was > revolutionary for its time and far from generally accepted. The wealth of > evidence and fascinating detail Dr. Price provides is as informative and > valuable today as it was half a century ago. His investigations showed > that it takes only one generation of eating a "Westernized" diet to produce > severe dental caries, malformed jawbones, and misaligned teeth. Dr. Price > practiced dentistry in Cleveland, Ohio. He died in 1948. The > Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation of San Diego was established to > disseminate his nutritional discoveries. > > > > >You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are > starting to lose their > >connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is > like an artist gone > >bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative > forces are 'painting' all > >over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and > that, funny enough are the > >teeth and the skull). Here > > Impaired connection with the formative forces show up in the teeth because > each tooth is energetically linked to all systems of the body via the > meridian pathways. Dr. Price's research showed that people who ate food > raised and prepared according to their native dietary traditions, almost > never had tooth decay or misaligned teeth. Even more interesting, was the > practice in these cultures of modifying the diet prior to conceiving > children. The diet was enhanced for both men and women to help the couple > have the forces that were needed to produce healthy children. > > thanks, John > > St. George Farm > Freedom, Maine, USA -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 14:35:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16670 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:35:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20521; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:24:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20315 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:22:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-87.s24.as1.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.87]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id OAA24672 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:25:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36EC0C8A.7B527FDB@erols.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:22:51 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces & THE HEALTH OF TEETH References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19990313151549.007b4300@midcoast.com> <36EBFFF0.E7FCADD5@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > So, personally, I am of the opinion, there is more than meets the eye. This, sir, is *always* the case. > I really believe that if and when Westernized food is being introduced it is not the food but > the thinking behind it. Maybe so, but those who read Price's classic draw a simpler conclusion. The most compelling of the hundreds of full-mouth photos in his book are of brothers, sisters, even twins, one of who got traditional food and one of who got manufactured food. I say 'compelling' with full emphasis: so much so that I bought a case of the books for family, friends, and for resale. It's a powerful, almost overwhelming, indictment of junky food. The dental devastation Price lays at the feet of Westernized (think manufactured) food is incredible. > > I met a nurse in New York some years ago who ate the most dreadful food you could think of > and who had the shyniest teeth I had ever seen. What was the answer I asked her? Oh, cleaning > my teeth regularly and being happy, thankful and joyful. Good point, Ferdy---I may share it with my 96 year old uncle (if he sobers up and I can tolerate walking into the chain-smoker's section of McDonalds, where he seems to have lived for the past 35 years). Of course if a skirt goes by, he'll jump up and forget me. :) :) :) Regards, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 14:37:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16726 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20623; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:25:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20477 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:24:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.80]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990314192722.PWZ682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:27:22 +1300 Message-ID: <36EC0DD1.20BD@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:28:17 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Basalt rock dust Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Cheryl Where can this rock dust testing be done in either Australia or NZ. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 14:38:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16787 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:38:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20775; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:27:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20491 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:24:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.80]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990314192732.PYF682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:27:32 +1300 Message-ID: <36EC0DDC.78F3@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:28:28 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: etheric forces and teeth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 Ferdinand Interestingly I have read RS talk of teeth as a balanced interplay of Magnesium and Flouride. Have you noted the big and strong teeth of the people born in the US mid west, where the magnesium is 22% of the soil. No doubt calcuim has a role but magnesium could well be the missing key here and certainly one dentistry has not got a hold of yet. Also it emphasises the role of magnesium as a carrier of the etheric possibly into more Astral spheres than calcium can go????? just a thought. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 14:39:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16815 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:39:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20879; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:28:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20538 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:25:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.80]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990314192802.QAN682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:28:02 +1300 Message-ID: <36EC0DFA.6701@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:28:58 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: signs and constellations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 > Rudolf Steiner acknowledges both signs and constellations in his frequent > mentions of the stars. To state, as many people today do, that the signs no > longer have any validity seems to us not to be correct. Both have validity, > but in different ways. Guenther Wachsmuth (a contemporary of Steiner and > member of the original Board of the Goetheanum) has indicated that for the > human being the signs have more to do with the physical/etheric and the > constellations more with astral/ego., also that the signs have more to do with > the earthly incarnation and the constellations with pre-birth and after-death. > Thank you for this. I agree, this illustrates my point exactly. Those who deny the reality of the signs have not looked, seen and experienced. (around here at least) it is obvious these statements come from intellect (and fanaticism) not their experience. And so be it , as long as we see their statements for what they are. Incorrect. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 15:39:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA18315 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:39:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27187; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:28:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26995 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max7-11.stc.net [208.210.134.11]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21846 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:29:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36DC2B91.4F09@xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:28:22 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 >Hugh > >Thank you for your reply on organic chemistry. > >I appreciate CHO, sugars and fats etc are all products of living >organisms. From your reply (and other thoughts), is it correct to >conclude that all living organisms make use of and need nitrogen to >exist? Naturally if it is not in the soil then it is easily extracted >from the atmosphere. Even fungi and mosses in N depleted soils could get >what they need from the air etc. So anyway is this an appropriate >conclusion. > >Cheers > >Glen A. Glen, et. al., All living organisms need nitrogen to form amino acids and proteins. I believe there are algae as well as the whole Nitrobacteracea family that can fix nitrogen from the air or from air dissolved in water. As well nitrogen compounds develop in thunderstorms and snowstorms so there tends to be an adequate nitrogen cycle if everything is working well enough. Best, Hugh Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 15:40:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA18343 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:40:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27402; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:29:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27053 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max7-11.stc.net [208.210.134.11]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21908 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:29:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <36E226BB.7CC98AD4@direct.ca> <92DB4A1207AF90D78525672C006467DD.0064D9CC8525672C@webcity> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:48:38 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: agsyn.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 > >So Hugh, I'm lost here. Being well tutored in the Moore-York school of >'Biodynamics as Wholistic Resource Management,' I've never had much problem >with the idea that the mind is contained within the brain, but that concept >has been pretty foreign to this much of the conversation on this list in >the past. For example, it seems to be a tenet that the stirrer puts much of >themself into the prep, that what they are thinking, saying, humming or >singing becomes part of what is applied. > >Given this and given our recent and frequent experiences with Topolos >Vinyard, how do you account for this apparent contradiction? > >Incidentally, given an opportunity to 'bar' Greg from the BD Now!, the >community here was 'listless,' to say the least. Greg is still welcomed to >join BD Now! as far as I'm concerned. > >Sincerely, > >-Allan >igg@igg.com > >PS "Bad Manners"? Did you miss a few posts or something? Allan, No doubt I've missed some posts, since I haven't any idea what you are referring to with "recent and frequent experiences with Topolos Vinyard." I am surprised by the thought that the mind would be contained within the brain. I know my own mind frequently ranges quite outside my brain, most notably while I'm asleep or meditating, though absentmindedness is another well-known phenomenon. Are there folks on this list who actually think the brain contains the mind and that astral traveling and other types of out of body experiences do not occur? Well, given the diversity of folks on this list I suppose it is inevitable that we have a few with this viewpoint. Even so when we put our thoughts and vibrations into stirring preps it is not a big leap of faith to think the preps will carry these thoughts out into the field. I'd imagine that both one's hopes and fears are communicated. What are we discussing here? Greg Willis' extremely rude posts to Steve Moore a couple months back or what? Does Greg communicate this to the vineyards he works with? Not that I've seen. I'd say that if he doesn't maintain a harmonious relationship with his clients that he loses them. I have ego problems myself, as I'd imagine you've noticed. I can be an insufferable fool at times. As a result I try to remember in my wiser moments to forgive others their failings and give them credit where it is due. Greg has his finer points, of course. Are we discussing Greg's going off in an independent direction from the BDA and Demeter? That's a whole nuther ball of wax. The most time honored of growth processes is growth by schism. Seems to me we need a bit of that in biodynamics. I don't see what the complaint would be there. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 18:36:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA23826 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:36:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA15432; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15193 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:20:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.12]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:24:35 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:23:36 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: No till versus Double Digging Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 Hello Bd-Now friends, There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the seeds.) I'm wondering about you bd farmers, where you stand with this and what are some of your practices when you have new land to get ready for planting? The no till folks say that disturbing the soil wipes out the beneficent organisms. Others say, that Jeavons method, merely moves the top layer over, digging down to allow for deep root growth, then adding the top layer back on top. I understand that Jeavons studied both the french intensive method of gardening/farming and also studied with Rudolf Steiner in the 20's before bringing these methods to California, but was wondering, now that we've had so much more time for industry (ag included) to screw with the soil, what approach do you all take? Thanks for any insights into this mystery! Best Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 18:46:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24074 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16891; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:34:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16539 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:32:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.23]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:35:55 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:34:56 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: COTS: March 13, 1999 - March 19, 1999 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 <> Dear Kate, Quite frankly, I didn't know this calendar of the soul had more than verses to it, until Christine wrote in about the other features of the calendar. (Is that what the Stella Natura is based upon originally?) I am on a mailing list which I discovered at the elib website, which has put up many Steiner translations on the web (address available at the bottom of the calendar of the soul postings. I signed up for the weekly calendar verse which arrives in my email box with an inspiring verse for me to read each Sunday morning. (http://www.elib.com/) Best luck, Jane PS: I am a farmer wannabe; soon I hope to have a real garden, not just one in cyberspace or up in the air, so to speak! For now, I get most of my flora fixes at the lovely Shakespear garden in Central Park, NYC, not exactly a wild haven! And I still haven't managed to find any nettles in this city. Maybe I should try the Bronx. But I will pass on your haven info to my California friends! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 18:46:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24080 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:46:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16842; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:34:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16407 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:31:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0210.direct.ca ([204.244.83.26] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MKNz-0000jM-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:33:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC46FC.3DB85396@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:32:12 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: ADMIN: Routing Test References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 What is this, Allan? No message. Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:01:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA26072 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:01:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA24391; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:49:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24311 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:48:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-192.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.192]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA29409 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:50:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36EC58F9.3C6D@ipa.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:48:57 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 Jane Sherry wrote: > Hello Bd-Now friends, > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > seeds.) In permaculture, you'd find preference for the no-till method. In biointensive,you'd find preference for double-dig. In Fukuoka-style natural farming, you'd find preference for no-till. In Kyusei Nature Farming, you'd find preference for a mechanical spader. In market gardening, who has time to double-dig, or rely on comparatively more risky no-till. In truck farming, you'd find preference for mechanical tillage. In backyard gardening, you can do whatever you want. In biodynamics, you have a framework to interweave biological and dynamic practices to create a living dynamic force in the garden or farm so there is flexibility and adaptability to the whatever digging method works best for your particular situation, though incorporation of compost would be seen as a good soil management practice. "Nature bends and shapes the inputs of man and crafts her own" If we had the Sutras of Organic Agriculture laid out before us, the sutras that do not yet exist in print but do exist in the collective brains banks of millions of farmers worldwide, the sutras crafted from thousands of years indigenous knowledge-tribal agriculture mixed with modern ecological agriculture insights from clairovoyants like Steiner and humus farmers like Ehrenfried Pfeiffer, we could refer to a simple parable-paragraph and understand all that is necessary. Like Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language" or Pantajali's "Yoga Sutra's", you can spin a long story to support an individual sutra. In the examples above, it helps to understand the framework you are working with. The "scale" of production makes a huge impact on how you approach the no-till and double-dig picture. Double digging is *very* labor intensive. While you are still digging and digging and digging and digging to establish the market garden, the season is passing by and you are still digging instead of planting and weeding and harvesting and playing. The largest double-dug market garden I've seen in California is a one-acre farm owned by white guy recognized for his organic produce. However, the actual physical digging was done by a full-time Mexican laborer. Alex MacGregor in Tennesse has a 6-acre biointensive market garden, I'm think. I am very interested to visit this farm and get a good picture how the actual labor and mechanics are worked out. On the other hand, no-till veggie production is still largely dependent on at least a minimum of herbides at the commercial scale. At the home gardening scale, it is no problem. You see, the paragraphs are spinning off and I've barely touched on this subject. Thus, a sutra is all you need, but the explanation goes on and on. Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:21:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA26671 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:21:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA26310; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26132 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:08:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max15-22.stc.net [208.210.138.22]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA25950 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:11:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990303202934.9611.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:42:15 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipe Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id UAA26134 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 >Dear List, > >A Cosmic Pipe when made properly and calibrated to astronomical data has >the influence to mediate desired properties of a farm organism on both >the atmosheric and soil level. This device, I feel, funtions on the >same level as what I have read concerning the "Round Towers" of Ireland >and the "Stone Circles" of Brittany. > >Hugh Lovel is correct when he speaks of "farming the atmoshere", but a >learning curve is in store for anyone choosing this path. The first >plateu(and possibly stumbling block) on the learning curve was in >learning to think of the farm as having borders. While I was able to >make some headway in thinking of it as an organizm, it was difficult >indeed to link borders with organizms; that are able to draw the >nourishment it requires from its' surrounding. > >As each organism must fight for its' own survival, it must build its' >resistance to perceived threats of pestalence, drought and flood. >In that context, even though it is not an approved by the BDA so I have >heard, I consider the cosmic pipe to be of primary importance in >broadcasting of biodynamic preparations for the purpose of healing the >farm organizm. > >However, it must be realized by anyone who would endevor to take on >such a task, that is of building and maintaining a pipe, that it takes >constant vigilence of coordinating regents with lunar & cosmic >influences. This in itself, cannot and should not be taken lightly. > > >Michael. > Michael and List, Here's a little further information from my assembly instructions for Cosmic Pipes. There's some things to know about prayerful intent. Assembly instructions for The Cosmic Pipe In ordering your cosmic pipe kit you should have sent us a copy of your property map or an aerial photo with the boundaries of the area you want to treat marked off. We keep a copy of this map or photo on file and use it to dowse a potential location for the pipe as well as the potencies for all the reagents used in either well at that location. These reagents are included in your starter kit in the pipe's wells along with copies of the map or photo sealed in a ziploc bag to protect from moisture. Without these reagents and the map or photo showing the boundaries in the pipe's wells the pipe does very little and is analogous to a radio station that is off the air. It is advised that a new pipe owner formulate an intent (or prayer) and write it on the back of the copy of the map or photo for each well. Think of the pipe as a channel of life force or vitality between and for your soil and atmosphere. When you are low in vitality it is difficult to carry forward your intentions, but when your vitality is high you put forth your intentions very effectively. The pipe is much the same since life force responds to intentions. Thus your intent in the well will have the effect of a prayer or thought form that the life force responds to. Here is more or less a model for formulating a written intent. "If it be Thy will,. . .' (in harmony with the Creator's will) "let the powers of nature converge. . ." (all of them) "to bring in beneficial energies and to transform detrimental energies into beneficial ones within the boundaries marked, . . ." (in other words let the pipe be a channel of beneficial energy and keep toxic or harmful things, such as the caulk, glue and pvc as well as other detrimental environmental forces, out of the broadcast and transform their influences to good) "yielding a healthy environment with abundant and nutritious production for the benefit of all and detriment of none, . . ." (or whatever other specific things you wish such as a loving enviroment, harmonious working conditions, etc.) "for now and in the future for as long as is appropriate." (this sets the temporal parameters) Amen (or whatever other closing you wish). All together the above reads: "If it be Thy will let the powers of nature converge to bring in beneficial energies and to transform detrimental energies into beneficial ones within the boundaries marked, yielding a healthy environment with abundant and nutritious production for the benefit of all and detriment of none, for now and in the future for as long as is appropriate. Amen." This intent, or whatever version of it you please, should be written on the back of the map or photo and folded up inside the ziploc bag of reagents and placed in the well for both wells. Just in case there is any confusion about which reagents go in which well, the BD 501, BD 508, Honey and SF (Spring to Fall) Horn Clay (if this reagent is included for your property) go in the top well. The BD 500, BC (barrel compost), milk and FS (Fall to Spring) Horn Clay go in the bottom well. Occasionally some additional reagent may be used, such as homeopathic lime, silica or other minerals. These will be special cases and special instructions will be included. There is one thing left out of your kit for economy in shipping, because it makes the package too bulky and isn't worth the price of shipping. This is a 5 foot length of schedule 40 PVC pipe, either 2 inch or 3 inch diameter according to whether you purchased a garden model or a field model. This should be available at a reasonable price from virtually any local hardware or builders' supply. We concentrate on sending you in your kit all the things you cannot otherwise find of reliable quality and easy availability. Once you have that, a post hole diggers, some PVC cleaner and PVC glue, and competent help (such as a dowser) if you need it determine the optimum exact location, you are ready to assemble your Cosmic Pipe and put it into operation. Assembly is simply a matter of testing the wells in case of damage in shipping, connecting the internal wires (supplied in the kit) and gluing the joints of PVC pipe together in the sequence indicated. They will be marked on the inside with a letter and an arrow pointing downward from A to C to D. B will be the 5 foot length you buy at the hardware store along with your cleaner and glue. Find a flat, clean surface, such as a driveway and lay out the pieces, connect the sections with wire nuts as provided, and glue each section together. First apply cleaner to the areas to be joined, then glue, then join the pieces with a slight twist to seal the joint. With the joint that connects the top and bottom wells try to see that both wells are joined in alignment pointing the same direction. Assembly on a flat surface helps. Included in your kit is an 8 Range Multitester. This has many uses but most importantly it can measure continuity, resistance (otherwise known as ohms, the first click to the left labeled RX 1K‡), amperage, as well as both direct current voltages and alternating current voltages. As far as using it to check the operation of your Cosmic Pipe all you will need to use is the RX 1K‡ position. Your test meter should come with a AA battery already installed and be ready for use. Unwrap the leads and plut the red jack into the right hand socket, the black into the left. Touching the probe with the dial turned to the RX 1K‡ position should show 0K ohms resistance, give or take a hair. Zero your meter using the red wheel on the left hand side. Check each well by simultaneously touching the red probe to the red post and the black to the black post. This should read close to half an ohm (on the far right between 1 and 0 ohms). This shows the germanium diode in that circuit is working. Swap leads so that red touches black and black red and the dial should read approximately 100K ohms though this may vary as much as 40 or so ohms and still be within serviceable range. This shows the 100K resistor is functioning properly. From time to time after the pipe is installed you may want to check these circuits again, as it is unlikely but conceivable that lightning could hit your pipe and burn out its components. In any event you should know whether your pipe is working or not. At this point you are ready to install your Cosmic Pipe. If possible you should check for an optimum location to put the pipe. You may use your intuition or perhaps dowse for it yourself or find a dowser that you can explain how the Cosmic Pipe works to and have him dowse for the location. It should not be under power lines, especially high voltage ones. It should not be under thick trees or up against houses, walls or steep banks. It should not be planted in locations where water stands, and, of course, it cannot be placed in roads or other places where it is an obstruction. If placed in a location where cattle or other large livestock can rub against it a fence must be put around it to keep them from breaking it. Once a suitable location is found, dig a two foot deep hole with post hole diggers and place the pipe in the hole with the wells pointing east. In ordinary clay-loam soil it should be buried up to about the middle of the collar on the pipe. Perhaps in heavy clay it might be buried about an inch higher, while in very sandy soil it should go a couple inches below the collar. It is possible to fine tune the depth by (with the wells empty) getting back 35 feet or so and walking forward dowsing for the range of effectiveness of the pipe. Then with a little deeper or shallower hole the range can be marked off until the optimum depth is found. Then the soil should be packed firmly around the pipe and the reagent packages (which are labeled for each well) should be placed in their respective wells. Then dowsing should reveal the range of effective to be far, far wider--presumably covering the entire area within the boundaries of the photos in the wells. At this point the pipe is assembled and installed. Periodically one may check the wells with the ohm meter. A couple words of caution. (1) Your reagent package is a finely tuned set. Adding or subtracting reagents should be done with care. For example, if soil tests indicate lime should be added, don't just get a vial of lime and put it in the well. Tests have shown that one or another homeopathic dilution will be harmonious, certain others antipathetic. Without care and understanding you could easily have some unusual and perhaps undesirable experiences. If you got your Cosmic Pipe from us, your photo is on file here and we can make you reagents tuned to your needs for $10 apiece. So should you need lime of one kind or another, azomite, greensand, soft rock phosphate, or a weed or insect pepper, send us a sample of whatever it is. (2) By use of the Cosmic Pipe you will gradually change the conditions in your environment. At some point it will be appropriate to change the potencies of the reagents in your wells. If you think you need a new reagent package give us a call and we can check your map or photo in our files and send you a new reagent set. There is a substantial discount for complete reagent sets. By periodically testing your pipe to see if it's components continue to function and your reagents are appropriate your Cosmic Pipe should continue to work as it was designed to. Feel free to contact us at: Union Agricultural Institute 8475 Dockery Road Blairsville, Georgia 30512 706 745-6056 uai@stc.net Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:22:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA26689 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA26366; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26145 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:09:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max15-22.stc.net [208.210.138.22]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA25995 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:11:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19990303202934.9611.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:46:06 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipe Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 >>I wonder if this sense is where man broke with the past? Why we are >>blinded to the ethers that are constantly flowing. How did this occur? >>Was man able once to see these? Is it the ridicule and objectiveness of >>politeness that creates the dillusion of total materialism? > >A Great Question, Well Phrased, Michael! Thank You, -Allan igg@igg.com Michael, I'm sure we ARE blinded to the ethers that are constantly flowing. Most people are blinded, that is. We can regain that ability, and I believe with biofeedback training most folks could be trained to clear perception of these things once again. Hugh Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:36:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA27028 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:36:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA28144; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:25:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27942 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:23:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.13]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:27:21 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:26:21 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 <> Hmmm Steve, I quite liked your answer, but somehow missed your 'personal' sutra in there! Just which method do you use? Thanks, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 20:43:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA27188 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:43:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA28868; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:31:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28809 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:30:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max15-22.stc.net [208.210.138.22]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA28993 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:33:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:55 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 >Hello Bd-Now friends, >There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's >style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of >late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should >rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone >and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, >manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly >soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the >seeds.) > >I'm wondering about you bd farmers, where you stand with this and what are >some of your practices when you have new land to get ready for planting? >The no till folks say that disturbing the soil wipes out the beneficent >organisms. Others say, that Jeavons method, merely moves the top layer >over, digging down to allow for deep root growth, then adding the top layer >back on top. > >I understand that Jeavons studied both the french intensive method of >gardening/farming and also studied with Rudolf Steiner in the 20's before >bringing these methods to California, but was wondering, now that we've had >so much more time for industry (ag included) to screw with the soil, what >approach do you all take? > >Thanks for any insights into this mystery! > >Best Regards, >Jane Sherry Jane, Any more I have such loamy soil riddled with earthworms that I can get away with a lot of Ruth Stout stuff. And I can see why, from the viewpoint of labor, she would advocate it. But don't get the idea she was doing it on new land. If you're starting with the sort of gummy clay I did my first double dug beds in The Chadwick/Jeavons method is much needed. A lot of BD vegetable growers seem to be going to spading machines, because Jeavons' method is okay for third world gardeners, but with a several acre market garden it's too much. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 21:34:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28734 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:33:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03963; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:22:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03895 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:22:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp57.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.157]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA06999 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:22:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001c01be6e8a$83679b20$9d4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Fw: agsyn.com Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:21:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 Hugh wrote: >Does Greg communicate this to the vineyards he works with? Not that I've seen. I'd say that if he doesn't maintain a harmonious relationship with his clients that he loses them. I have ego problems myself, as I'd imagine you've noticed. I can be an insufferable fool at times. As a result I try to remember in my wiser moments to forgive others their failings and give them credit where it is due. Greg has his finer points, of course. >Are we discussing Greg's going off in an independent direction from the BDA >and Demeter? That's a whole nuther ball of wax. The most time honored of >growth processes is growth by schism. Seems to me we need a bit of that in >biodynamics. I don't see what the complaint would be there. > Hi Hugh, I hesitate to question authority, but since that is YOUR motto, thought you wouldn't mind! :-) This is something that came to me from discussions some months back...that it is extremely important to have the right attitude when stirring, applying preps, working with the land. Perhaps being so novice, I've misunderstood in some way. It seems especially true, in life, that our emotional state permeates our environment & colors our experience. If the lens through which we see is colored by love, the world responds lovingly (or maybe life just returns through that lens & is transformed!). And so it is with anger & hate. You speak of "intent", and for me, intent is certainly influenced by the lens of the moment. I know there are certain tasks that I must commence with some semblance of balance. (for example, if I try to milk a cow when I'm angry, I will, without fail, get kicked) >From my personal symbology...water is emotion (whether that's right or wrong...when the basement floods, or the well pump breaks - I look at my emotions for an answer & QUICK adjustment! :-). Water, carrier of the preparations to the land, would seem to the ideal conduit for one's emotions. And as you pointed out at your recent seminar (btw, I loved this part...) that defying the laws of physics, the vibrations(?) flow from lesser concentration to higher concentration. So would not the application of preps even magnify one's emotional state? How can Greg keep from communicating this to the vineyards? I have to say I never had a big problem with Greg. In fact I did admire his thinking and his knowledge regarding a number of BD principles. But knowing that lens through which he sees things, and the resulting energy that returns to him through that lens, would be enough to keep me from ingesting Topolos wines...or any product I know has this energy incorporated into it! For me specifically, this stems from some of Greg's views on the feminine and I have to tell you that as a woman, I'd be crazy to knowingly bring that energy into my being. So, am I missing something important here? I mean, should I not try to develop a healthy mental state (love, being the emotion of choice) and approach these practices in as centered a way as possible? Otherwise, am I doing nothing good at all -- or worse, do I contaminate my environment & its product? Thanks, Julie PS..I don't think that it was Greg's questioning of the BDA & Demeter, their financial records, motives, etc. that upset people...it was his overly aggressive assault tactics. I suspect he did accomplish some re-evaluation on the part of BDA & Demeter, I don't know for sure, but in the process, he gave up all of his own power by being a hostile fanatic about it. PPS...Greg, if you're getting a copy of this, please don't bother writing me, threatening to sue, whatever...I am broke. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:25:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00519 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:25:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA09653; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:13:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09154 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-85.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.85]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA13558 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:12:47 +1100 Message-ID: <009c01be6e91$9a178ae0$55431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: Basalt rock dust Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:16:54 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 Glen, There is a guy who works for Booral Australia, Tony Zrilic, a geologist, who has one of Philip Callaghan's machines. It looks just like a Radionics box, and he puts the dust in a bag in one side and the meter shows the pm qualities. (just like amps) If you wanted to send him some dust to test, contact him on +61 2 948338 (home) Have you checked with that old guy from Rotorua, Keith ? who has spent his life doing rock dust studies. Ian Buckingham may know of him. He may have a machine now. Cheryl. -----Original Message----- From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, 15 March 1999 6:30 am Subject: Basalt rock dust >Cheryl >Where can this rock dust testing be done in either Australia or NZ. > >Glen A. > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:25:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00536 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA09706; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:13:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09157 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-85.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.85]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA13552 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:12:42 +1100 Message-ID: <009a01be6e91$9779ae80$55431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Off: Fw: CONSENSUS CONF ON GENE TECHNOLOGY (Australia) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:45:05 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 I just thought all you BD Nowers would be interested to see what we have been doing in Australia re GE Technology. We are at the stage where patents have been applied for by Monsanto to bring in 6 GE species for Soybean, Canola etc. At present the only GE crop being grown commercially is the Bt Cotton ( and this is not doing too well). Our CSIRO (Govt. Science organisation) has bought rights to do further research and trials of GE products, and this is also being queried by consumers. So this Concensus Conference was set up last week, where citizens have the right to question the experts and to come up with recommendations to the Govt. A recent Australia New Zealand Food Authority (ANZFA) decision was made to label all obvious GE food, but not eg oil from GE seeds! So we are still battling to keep our food at least labelled and at best really controlled and consumers protected. If anyone is interested in the whole 11 page report of the Conference, just contact me on bio@midcoast.com.au and I will email it on. Thanks, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Organic Federation of Australia Inc To: ofa@netspace.net.au Date: Sunday, 14 March 1999 10:06 pm Subject: CONSENSUS CONF ON GENE TECHNOLOGY > >NEWS MEDIA RELEASE >13/3/98 > >Australia's First Consensus Conference Canberra 9th to 11th March 99. > >The final report of the citizen panel into gene technology was a "cry" for >democracy calling on the Australian Government to provide a process of >decision making that is balanced and transparent. They expressed grave >concerns about the ability of GMAC and ANZFA to make unbiased decisions. >This report has the full support of the Organic Federation of Australia. > >The citizen panel went on to recommend that full labeling of genetically >engineered food be implemented including items regarded as being >"substantially equivalent". > >In addition it was recommended that no new genetically modified crops be >approved until a new Gene Technology Office is established with equal and >balanced representation of industry, government, consumer and environment >groups and citizens such as those involved in this consensus conference. > >"Such an office with terms of reference and representation agreed upon by >all parties, is the only way to ensure that the best, most responsible >decisions will be made," Organic Federation of Australia Chair Mr Scott >Kinnear said today. > >"The risks associated with releasing genes into the environment that cross >species boundaries, with little known consequences, must be assessed >rigorously and impartially and that is what the citizens panel has called for." > >"The organic industry, estimated to be worth one billion dollars per year to >Australia within ten years time, is extremely concerned about the impact on >the environment including pollen drift contamination of organic crops from >genetically engineered crops. Once these genes are released they cannot be >recalled." > >"In addition we are particularly pleased with the recommendation to >investigate fully, alternatives to gene technology such as organic >production systems and their further recommendation that much more research >and development is required in these areas." > >"The decisions reached by the citizen panel are fundamental reflecting the >real issues of marginalisation of consumer interests and lack of unbiased >process and decision making. The consensus conference highlighted the >diverse interests present and the ability of our citizens to weigh up and >address the important issues. We call on the Australian Government to head >the voice of the people in fully implementing these recommendations >immediately," Mr Kinnear concluded. >Scott Kinnear > >Chairperson >Organic Federation of Australia >C/- 452 Lygon St >East Brunswick >Victoria 3057 >Australia > >Ph 61 3 9386 6600 >Fax 61 3 9384 1322 > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:28:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00641 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA10122; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09725 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:13:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max13-42.stc.net [208.210.137.42]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA14105 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:15:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36EC58F9.3C6D@ipa.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:54:33 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 Jane Sherry wrote: > Hello Bd-Now friends, > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > seeds.) In permaculture, you'd find preference for the no-till method. In biointensive,you'd find preference for double-dig. In Fukuoka-style natural farming, you'd find preference for no-till. In Kyusei Nature Farming, you'd find preference for a mechanical spader. In market gardening, who has time to double-dig, or rely on comparatively more risky no-till. In truck farming, you'd find preference for mechanical tillage. In backyard gardening, you can do whatever you want. In biodynamics, you have a framework to interweave biological and dynamic practices to create a living dynamic force in the garden or farm so there is flexibility and adaptability to the whatever digging method works best for your particular situation, though incorporation of compost would be seen as a good soil management practice. "Nature bends and shapes the inputs of man and crafts her own" Jane, Steve, et. al., I did a garden in Atlanta that started off as a parking lot and I did well to single dig it. With BD compost and a cosmic pipe applying preps I dug it this past February with a pitchfork in almost nothing flat. Rich, crumbly soil. Still plenty of room for improvement, but a miracle of crumblyness and nice structure nonetheless. So in 3 years it's ready for the Ruth Stout treatment. But it was hopeless before that. It's no market garden technique, though. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:42:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01040 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:42:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA12425; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12168 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:30:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MO7K-0002E0-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:32:38 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC7F03.D241FA31@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:31:16 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces & THE HEALTH OF TEETH References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> <3.0.5.32.19990313151549.007b4300@midcoast.com> <36EBFFF0.E7FCADD5@direct.ca> <36EC0C8A.7B527FDB@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 Dear Rex, I know, things are never as simple as one may want to believe. YOu are right. There is so much more behind a rotten set of teeth. However, if the spirit fails, the teeth (most of the time) fail, too. The WEsternized food was introduced in Africa and other places in a most cunning way and rolled over a continent ill prepared for it. Again, I agree, white flour, white sugar, etc. etc. makes the mouth too acid. My neighbour who is a ND told me that we have four sets of digestive systems in our body: mouth (alcaline), stomach (acid), small intestine (alcaline) and colon (acid). So, if you screw up the mouth and make it acide, the whole chain may fail. And denaturalized food certainly does so. Hope this may set my story into a bit of a better light. And, let your uncle run after those little skirt - who know for how long. Regards Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > So, personally, I am of the opinion, there is more than meets the eye. > > This, sir, is *always* the case. > > > I really believe that if and when Westernized food is being introduced it is not the food but > > the thinking behind it. > > Maybe so, but those who read Price's classic draw a simpler conclusion. The most compelling of > the hundreds of full-mouth photos in his book are of brothers, sisters, even twins, one of who > got traditional food and one of who got manufactured food. I say 'compelling' with full > emphasis: so much so that I bought a case of the books for family, friends, and for resale. > It's a powerful, almost overwhelming, indictment of junky food. The dental devastation Price > lays at the feet of Westernized (think manufactured) food is incredible. > > > > > I met a nurse in New York some years ago who ate the most dreadful food you could think of > > and who had the shyniest teeth I had ever seen. What was the answer I asked her? Oh, cleaning > > my teeth regularly and being happy, thankful and joyful. > > Good point, Ferdy---I may share it with my 96 year old uncle (if he sobers up and I can > tolerate walking into the chain-smoker's section of McDonalds, where he seems to have lived for > the past 35 years). Of course if a skirt goes by, he'll jump up and forget me. :) :) :) > > Regards, > Rex Harrill -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 22:54:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01369 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:54:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA14539; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:43:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13994 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:40:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MOHI-000658-00; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:42:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC816E.159B91E2@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:41:34 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics CC: "Hirschnitz, Michaela" Subject: The sun as a Being calling forth the earth's warmth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 Ferdy, Ever notice how when you cover up a patch in winter it stays green underneath, but do that in summer and it's dead in a weeK? That's holding the sun into the earth. I can't say for sure, but the earth does seem to give off heat and light when the sun strikes it. It does come from the surface upwards. Hope these observations help. Hugh Many thans, my friend. The snow drops, daffodils and other early spring flowers confirm that the earth is sending out its best (a transformed light) to greet the fresh sunlight. Transformed sunlight streaming from below and meeting the new light coming in from the sun. Many thanks,Hugh - from Ferdinand >-- -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 23:12:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01861 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:12:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17421; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17330 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MObP-0004ed-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:03:44 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC864F.D811C26A@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:02:23 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces and teeth References: <36EC0DDC.78F3@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 Excellent, and many thanks to you, Glen. It is indeed interesting what the etheric is able and willing (permit me this statement) to work with. My thinking has to change SOOO much that I am (at times) falling totally out of bed with Science. You see, when STeiner says in one of his lectures (I think in the Agri Course) that we do not eat food in order to feed ourselves with all kinds of stuff (with the exception of sugar), but that we eat in order to 'attract' the forces that will work with our body....., well, then you see how much we have to change in our approach to a new understanding of our diets and dieting. So, Calcium is not 'eaten' in order to grow better teeth. Never. We ought to take in homeopatized Calcium in order to teach the (our) body to deal with Calcium properly. Same may have to be done with other minerals etc. and Magnesium. Incidentally, in a lecture Steiner says that the teeth are taking in Fluoride in order to better our thinking. Man, what a thing. So, Fluoride can harden your thinking (and brain). Regards Ferdinand Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage wrote: > Ferdinand > > Interestingly I have read RS talk of teeth as a balanced interplay of > Magnesium and Flouride. Have you noted the big and strong teeth of the > people born in the US mid west, where the magnesium is 22% of the soil. > No doubt calcuim has a role but magnesium could well be the missing key > here and certainly one dentistry has not got a hold of yet. Also it > emphasises the role of magnesium as a carrier of the etheric possibly > into more Astral spheres than calcium can go????? > > just a thought. > > Glen A. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 23:28:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA02636 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19776; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:16:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19525 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:15:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MOpF-0000Ez-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:18:02 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC89A9.CFF45A80@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:16:41 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Newcomer References: <36E9E2EC.D34BEE4E@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 christopher jones wrote: > I am new to bio-dynamics. I live in in Southern California and have a > lot of shale with little organic matter. Any suggestions on how to > begin a more bio-dynamic situation. Dear Christopher: To begin with, get as much organic matter as you can. Leaves, grass, compost, kitchen waste, wood chips from leaf trees (never needle) - you may have to import stuff. Buy BD Compost Preps and get the compost going. Perhaps you can keep rabbits or get a bit of cow manure from somewhere. Make sure you get 'a set' of worms, too. Spray 500 soonest. Check your soil pH. Get a rain barrel. Cover the soil with straw so that soil life can develop underneath. Well, why am I saying this all? YOu may be much further. Sorry for being so obtrusive. All the best Ferdinand > > > -- > > Christopher Jones > feast@pacbell.net -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 23:31:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA02706 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA20267; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:19:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20190 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:19:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.132.152] (max5-4.stc.net [208.210.133.4]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA22406 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:21:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001c01be6e8a$83679b20$9d4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:29:11 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Fw: agsyn.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 >I hesitate to question authority, but since that is YOUR motto, thought you >wouldn't mind! :-) > >This is something that came to me from discussions some months back...that >it is extremely important to have the right attitude when stirring, applying >preps, working with the land. Perhaps being so novice, I've misunderstood in >some way. It seems especially true, in life, that our emotional state >permeates our environment & colors our experience. If the lens through which >we see is colored by love, the world responds lovingly (or maybe life just >returns through that lens & is transformed!). And so it is with anger & >hate. You speak of "intent", and for me, intent is certainly influenced by >the lens of the moment. I know there are certain tasks that I must commence >with some semblance of balance. (for example, if I try to milk a cow when >I'm angry, I will, without fail, get kicked) I'm with you. When I'm feeling mean I get kicked too. I have sometimes felt mean though, and thus I've been kicked a few times. Been kicked a few times when I was blissfully unsuspecting and maybe the cow was the one feeling mean too. So I've found it pays to be cool but alert. > >>From my personal symbology...water is emotion (whether that's right or >wrong...when the basement floods, or the well pump breaks - I look at my >emotions for an answer & QUICK adjustment! :-). Water, carrier of the >preparations to the land, would seem to the ideal conduit for one's >emotions. And as you pointed out at your recent seminar (btw, I loved this >part...) that defying the laws of physics, the vibrations(?) flow from >lesser concentration to higher concentration. So would not the application >of preps even magnify one's emotional >state? How can Greg keep from communicating this to the vineyards? I don't know Greg all that well, but I'm surprised he hasn't threatened to sue me yet. I feel a bit left out. Nonetheless, I've been in several vinyards with him and never seen him be angry even a moment in any. So how does he keep from communicating his anger (and I believe fear) stirring preps in a vinyard? Same way I keep it out of my milking parlor. It's a sacred activity and not something to come at with a chip on the shoulder. And I believe you might think again if you knew Michael Topolos's attitude toward BD and wine making, he's a very genial guy with a good grasp of BD and a reverent wine maker as well as being a fine restauranteur. I've watched him care for his horses and I've seen the very special relationship he has with his son. I'm sure he has some character flaws in there somewhere, but I haven't seen them. > >I have to say I never had a big problem with Greg. In fact I did admire his >thinking and his knowledge regarding a number of BD principles. But knowing >that lens through which he sees things, and the resulting energy that >returns to him through that lens, would be enough to keep me from ingesting >Topolos wines...or any product I know has this energy incorporated into it! >For me specifically, this stems from some of Greg's views on the feminine >and I have to tell you that as a woman, I'd be crazy to knowingly bring that >energy into my being. I don't think you're missing much. Greg surely doesn't know how to relate to the feminine gender, which might explain him not knowing any better than to marry a lesbian and not getting particularly enlightened about women as a result either. I can't say that affects my appreciation of his talents as a wine grape consultant though. Grapes are something he's remarkably intuitive--I would say clairvoyant--about. > >So, am I missing something important here? I mean, should I not try to >develop a healthy mental state (love, being the emotion of choice) and >approach these practices in as centered a way as possible? Otherwise, am I >doing nothing good at all -- or worse, do I contaminate my environment & its >product? > >Thanks, > >Julie > >PS..I don't think that it was Greg's questioning of the BDA & Demeter, their >financial records, motives, etc. that upset people...it was his overly >aggressive assault tactics. I suspect he did accomplish some re-evaluation >on the part of BDA & Demeter, I don't know for sure, but in the process, he >gave up all of his own power by being a hostile fanatic about it. I think you're quite right actually. > >PPS...Greg, if you're getting a copy of this, please don't bother writing >me, threatening to sue, whatever...I am broke. Julie, if Greg gets a copy of this maybe I will get a threat of a lawsuit from him too. Or maybe not. My attitude towards lawsuits is go ahead and sue me. At least I have the right to defend myself so as not to spend a lot of money on such a thing. Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 14 23:39:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01861 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:12:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17421; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17330 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MObP-0004ed-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:03:44 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC864F.D811C26A@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:02:23 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: etheric forces and teeth References: <36EC0DDC.78F3@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 Excellent, and many thanks to you, Glen. It is indeed interesting what the etheric is able and willing (permit me this statement) to work with. My thinking has to change SOOO much that I am (at times) falling totally out of bed with Science. You see, when STeiner says in one of his lectures (I think in the Agri Course) that we do not eat food in order to feed ourselves with all kinds of stuff (with the exception of sugar), but that we eat in order to 'attract' the forces that will work with our body....., well, then you see how much we have to change in our approach to a new understanding of our diets and dieting. So, Calcium is not 'eaten' in order to grow better teeth. Never. We ought to take in homeopatized Calcium in order to teach the (our) body to deal with Calcium properly. Same may have to be done with other minerals etc. and Magnesium. Incidentally, in a lecture Steiner says that the teeth are taking in Fluoride in order to better our thinking. Man, what a thing. So, Fluoride can harden your thinking (and brain). Regards Ferdinand Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage wrote: > Ferdinand > > Interestingly I have read RS talk of teeth as a balanced interplay of > Magnesium and Flouride. Have you noted the big and strong teeth of the > people born in the US mid west, where the magnesium is 22% of the soil. > No doubt calcuim has a role but magnesium could well be the missing key > here and certainly one dentistry has not got a hold of yet. Also it > emphasises the role of magnesium as a carrier of the etheric possibly > into more Astral spheres than calcium can go????? > > just a thought. > > Glen A. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 00:20:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04171 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA28498; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:08:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28053 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:06:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-131.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.131]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA28824 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:08:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36EC956F.4BDD@ipa.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:06:55 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Hmmm Steve, > I quite liked your answer, but somehow missed your 'personal' sutra in > there! Just which method do you use? > > Thanks, > Jane Here is an interesting planting method which I don't think many list readers have seen, but could come in handy if super low-maintenance production is something you desire. The last three years, I've maintained a roadside flower bed on a paved county road about 20 minutes outside of town. This is a demonstration flower bed that contains native prairie plants, wildflowers, herbaceous perennials, perennial herbs, and unusual annuals. This is a multi-purpose flower bed that demonstrates a low-maintenance growing method, phenology or sequence of bloom, seed factory, insectary-butterfly garden, community supported agriculture, and community beautification. It is a CSA of the community supported type, rather than a subscription marketing venture. The farmer who owns the land is a friend. He and his wife operate an apple orchard and nursery. They are one of many small farms in the Ozarks, trying to keep rural communities intact, trying to show there is an ecological way to farm. A city dweller like myself and some friends who helped plant the bed contribute to the aesthetic and ecological well-being of such a farm by planting a flower-herb bed. Thus, it is a community supported agriculture project because a community of friends are supporting this small farm family and their efforts to live on the land, and, the flower bed brings beauty and life to the farm. In fact, it has turned into a true community project because neighbors sometimes gather by the roadside flower bed for a chat on their evening strolls. It has also spawned a trend to establish other roadside flower beds in the neighborhood, though none as large as the 1,000 sq. ft bed. This is a rural area, with country folk, in a region known as Round Mountian. The roadside flower bed is 100' long and 10' wide. The integrated planting system is the Sunbelt-HydroSource Dryland Production Bed. It combines the DeWitt Sunbelt Weed Barrier as a geotextile weed control mulch, and the HydroSource hydrogel as a moiture retaining hydrogel. The pasture was brush-hogged, then roto-tilled with a BSC walking tractor (rear-tine). A biocatalyzed poultry litter-based fertilizer was broadcast, then the hydrogel was broadcast. The weed barrier was laid out and pinned down with u-pins. A hand-held propane torch was used to burn small holes in the weed barrier (the flame cauterizes or melts the weed barrier, thus preventing running of threads like cloth). A hand trowel is the only planting tool you need. Soil was scooped up, then a bit of hydrated hydrogel put into the bottom of the hole along with mycorrhizal inoculant to enhance plant establishment and encourage symbiotic root association with beneficial rhizosphere microorganisms, then the 2-inch, 4-inch, 6-pack, 4-pack, and 6-inch potted plants were tucked in. The only watering that was done was the first 2 weeks in the hot summer sun (planted June 15th, very late in the season, with temperatures in the high 90's) until the first rains came. Thereafter, the bed has been 99% rainfed. A few hand waterings were done at critical times, especially when new plants were put in. But, there is no water source at the site and all water has to be hauled by truck and then hand watered. Thus, the bed was intended to be low-maintenance and that is why the hydrogel was used. The weed barrier is the critical component, however, because there is fescue grass and Johnsongrass and all-round tough and competitive vegetative that would otherwise run over the carefully selected plants. With the Sunbelt Weed Barrier production method, you can roto-till first or you can go with no-till. Since we established the flower bed on a permanent pasture with thick sod, I chose to roto-till the fescue mix first because we were using hand trowels to scoop the soil up for potted plants. The loose soil made this much easier, especially when you have friends helping out in the hot sun you don't want them to get discouraged. However, other beds have been established no-till right onto pastures and it has worked fine elsewhere. There is a 5 acre biodynamic flower farm in Oregon that uses DeWitt Pro-5 Weed Barrier on tractor-formed permanent raised beds. The holes burnt into the weed barrier are pre-set at 6-inch, 12-inch, 18-inch depending on the species grown. At the end of the season, the weed barrier (about 6' wide) is rolled up and carefully stored in a barn. In the off-season, a winter cover crop is established. In the spring, the cover crop is ploughed down as a green manure. A compost wagon pulled behind the tractor (straddling the bed) delivers compost as a topdress to the beds followed by mechanical incorporation (tillage) and final soil finishing and bed forming. The weed barrier and drip lines are laid back out and tucked down. This is followed by transplanting cut flower plugs. Thus, the weed barrier system I have described is practical at a home scale or at a commercial scale. A poem inspired by the Round Mountain Roadside Flower Bed: The beauty of the Earth Fills my eyes With a pounding heart My spirit soars Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 00:59:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05400 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:59:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA04032; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:47:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03846 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MQF2-000101-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:48:44 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC9EEC.74A07E1E@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:47:24 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 Where do I stand? Well, it really (as Hugh said) depends. T'would be ever so nice if one would not have to dig at all. You save cost and a lot of plowing hours. Yet, some soils need to be aerated, dug, turned, plowed, chisel plowed, chair harrowed, combed you name it. And it also depends upon the crop. In our gardens we apply Barrel Compost & Compost & (if seeded in the fall) Rye and then (after cutting the 5" high rye) we dig it all under. It is very difficult not to dig in our climate where we have to cover the soil with a thick layer of leaves in the fall (to protect it against the heavy rain fall). In the years of my apprenticeship (in Switzerland) when the winters were still cold (below freezing) you'd plow in the fall and let the frost crumble the soil. It made a most exquisite, fine till. And the compost was applied in the spring together with the preparations. As the soil was clayish and heavy, no till would not really have worked. It needed to be broken up. The new weather pattern, however, makes the situation different and I do not know how clay soils will react when there is little or no frost. Do we get a slimy, smeary and heavy soil (mess) with plowing? Clay soils are the most challenging to work with (not forgiving at all) and only the master farmer can make a living on it. I, personally, prefer a sandy soil. So, clay soils - Andrew Lorand - how do we go about here without plowing? In Holland, where I observed farmers dealing with clay soil(s) they were tilling too. How about a hard pan? Just want to know a bit more about tilling and no tilling in various soils. Regards Ferdinand Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Hello Bd-Now friends, > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > seeds.) > > I'm wondering about you bd farmers, where you stand with this and what are > some of your practices when you have new land to get ready for planting? > The no till folks say that disturbing the soil wipes out the beneficent > organisms. Others say, that Jeavons method, merely moves the top layer > over, digging down to allow for deep root growth, then adding the top layer > back on top. > > I understand that Jeavons studied both the french intensive method of > gardening/farming and also studied with Rudolf Steiner in the 20's before > bringing these methods to California, but was wondering, now that we've had > so much more time for industry (ag included) to screw with the soil, what > approach do you all take? > > Thanks for any insights into this mystery! > > Best Regards, > Jane Sherry -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 01:23:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA05992 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:23:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA07460; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:11:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07378 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:11:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-91.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.91]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13834 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:13:34 +1100 Message-ID: <00db01be6eaa$dc4d4620$55431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Please pass onto Dr. Andrew Lorand. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:08:01 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D3_01BE6F06.61DE5440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01BE6F06.61DE5440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Andrew,=20 Could I please use this answer that you gave on BD Now list, for slugs = and snails in our BDFGAA News Leaf. If you would like some personal = information to go with this piece, eg. where you live and what you do, = please add this info. I really appreciated the part that Steve Diver = used of yours in the ATTRA publication re the Comparative paradigms of = Traditional/mechanical. organic and BD farming systems. So good to = finally see the spiritual aspect of BD acknowledged. It is like we are = finally able to come out of the closet and say what we really are on = about. Thankyou, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322=20 Question: Any suggestions for repelling slugs and snails?=20 Answer: From Dr. Andrew Lorand (BDNow list)=20 I suggest you make up some pine cone soup. Pine cone soup is made by = boiling pine cones in water. Use only a pot that you can afford to throw = away afterwards as it will be a sticky mess. Fill your pot 2/3 with = fertile (seeded) cones, then add water. Boil under low flames and stir. = Should produce a brown-black goo, that you can pour (at least a couple = of inches wide) around your garden or areas affected by snails. Do not = cover! My experience both in Switzerland and in Pennsylvania is that = this works quite well in repelling snails and slugs for a period of a = month, sometimes a little longer. I used only local species of pine in = each case. Snails will attempt to cross this line and retreat. This = recipe was given to me by a very old farmer who lived in the Jura = mountains of Switzerland near Neuchatel. Rationale: There is the = handed-down experience here of several generations, plus the obvious = attempt to create an ecological/physical barrier. An = anthroposophical/biodynamic background to this has to do with the fiery = planetary forces of Saturn (pine) being overwhelming for the snails and = slugs who live in the watery forces of the moon. I would also advocate the use of nettle (urtica dioica) and horsetail = (equisetum arvense) teas. Snails and slugs, like other so-called pests = arrive when the garden or farm has an immunological weakness or = imbalance. Like all disease causing agents, they are virtually always = available (like bacteria and fungi) but only attack when the ecosystem = is weakened. They arrive to do a job, to call forth a response from the = farm organism to strengthen itself. Thus, I prefer to strengthen the = organism on a regular basis whenever possible. Nettle is a gentle, but potent immunological support. I make both = passive (sun) teas and active (boiled) brews and spray all my seedlings = and field crops regularly. I prefer to spray a concentrated form, rather = than a diluted one even if it means less coverage. I also prefer to = spray in the week before full moon, adding growth potency to the teas = immunological effect. Nettle has of course a high concentration of = organically bound iron, which many folks attribute its effect to. On the = other hand horsetail must be boiled at least 15 minutes to release the = active ingredient (silica), which when sprayed on crops acts as an = astringent, which in itself provides a barrier effect. Additionally, we could add an anthroposophical/biodynamic perspective = which might be that the presence of snails an slugs shows that the four = basic ether forces (life, chemical, light and warmth ether) are out of = balance. These forces run or hover along (in, below, and above) the soil = in a contoured, but defined set of patterns. When the life and chemical = ethers, that have mostly to do with the ground itself, run to high above = the ground we tend to see fog, dampness and given the opportunity over = time, also fungi, snails, slugs etc. (creatures of the dark and damp). = By applying nettle we strengthen the plant and soil microbiology; by = applying the horsetail we add a crispness to the leaves, but both also = act as regulators for the etheric forces. The horsetail invites the = light ether and the nettle the warmth ether to regain their proper place = and balance visa vie the life and chemical ethers. This keeps the kinds = of forces that the snails and slugs bring in the soil, rather than above = the soil - which is where they belong most of the time. ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01BE6F06.61DE5440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Andrew,

Could I please use this answer that you gave on BD Now list, for = slugs and=20 snails  in our BDFGAA News Leaf. If you would like some personal=20 information  to go with this piece, eg. where you live and what you = do,=20 please add this info.  I really appreciated the part that Steve = Diver used=20 of yours in the ATTRA publication re the Comparative paradigms of=20 Traditional/mechanical. organic and BD farming systems.  So good to = finally=20 see the spiritual aspect of BD acknowledged.  It is like we are = finally=20 able to come out of the closet and say what we really are on about.

Thankyou,

Cheryl Kemp
Education & Advisory Coordinator
Bio-Dynamic = Farming=20 and Gardening Assoc.
of Australia Inc.
P.O Box 54, Bellingen. = 2454.=20 (Office)
627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home)
Phone; + 02 66 = 575306=20 Fax 02 66 575322

 

 

Question: Any suggestions for repelling slugs and = snails?
Answer: = From Dr.=20 Andrew Lorand (BDNow list)
I suggest you make up some pine cone = soup. Pine=20 cone soup is made by boiling pine cones in water. Use only a pot that = you can=20 afford to throw away afterwards as it will be a sticky mess. Fill your = pot 2/3=20 with fertile (seeded) cones, then add water. Boil under low flames and = stir.=20 Should produce a brown-black goo, that you can pour (at least a couple = of inches=20 wide) around your garden or areas affected by snails. Do not cover! My=20 experience both in Switzerland and in Pennsylvania is that this works = quite well=20 in repelling snails and slugs for a period of a month, sometimes a = little=20 longer. I used only local species of pine in each case. Snails will = attempt to=20 cross this line and retreat. This recipe was given to me by a very old = farmer=20 who lived in the Jura mountains of Switzerland near Neuchatel. = Rationale: There=20 is the handed-down experience here of several generations, plus the = obvious=20 attempt to create an ecological/physical barrier. An = anthroposophical/biodynamic=20 background to this has to do with the fiery planetary forces of Saturn = (pine)=20 being overwhelming for the snails and slugs who live in the watery = forces of the=20 moon.

I would also advocate the use of nettle (urtica dioica) and = horsetail (equisetum arvense) teas. Snails and slugs, like other = so-called pests=20 arrive when the garden or farm has an immunological weakness or = imbalance. Like=20 all disease causing agents, they are virtually always available (like = bacteria=20 and fungi) but only attack when the ecosystem is weakened. They arrive = to do a=20 job, to call forth a response from the farm organism to strengthen = itself. Thus,=20 I prefer to strengthen the organism on a regular basis whenever=20 possible.

Nettle is a gentle, but potent immunological support. I = make=20 both passive (sun) teas and active (boiled) brews and spray all my = seedlings and=20 field crops regularly. I prefer to spray a concentrated form, rather = than a=20 diluted one even if it means less coverage. I also prefer to spray in = the week=20 before full moon, adding growth potency to the teas immunological = effect. Nettle=20 has of course a high concentration of organically bound iron, which many = folks=20 attribute its effect to. On the other hand horsetail must be boiled at = least 15=20 minutes to release the active ingredient (silica), which when sprayed on = crops=20 acts as an astringent, which in itself provides a barrier=20 effect.

Additionally, we could add an anthroposophical/biodynamic = perspective which might be that the presence of snails an slugs shows = that the=20 four basic ether forces (life, chemical, light and warmth ether) are out = of=20 balance. These forces run or hover along (in, below, and above) the soil = in a=20 contoured, but defined set of patterns. When the life and chemical = ethers, that=20 have mostly to do with the ground itself, run to high above the ground = we tend=20 to see fog, dampness and given the opportunity over time, also fungi, = snails,=20 slugs etc. (creatures of the dark and damp). By applying nettle we = strengthen=20 the plant and soil microbiology; by applying the horsetail we add a = crispness to=20 the leaves, but both also act as regulators for the etheric forces. The=20 horsetail invites the light ether and the nettle the warmth ether to = regain=20 their proper place and balance visa vie the life and chemical ethers. = This keeps=20 the kinds of forces that the snails and slugs bring in the soil, rather = than=20 above the soil - which is where they belong most of the=20 time.


------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01BE6F06.61DE5440-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 06:20:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA12575 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:20:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA10205; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp3.hawaii.rr.com (smtp3.hawaii.rr.com [204.210.97.13]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA09889 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:06:13 -0500 (EST) Received: apparently from phyl.hawaii.rr.com - 24.94.65.129 by smtp3.hawaii.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:05:27 -1000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990315010639.0103518c@pop-server> X-Sender: pdwyer@pop-server X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:08:56 -1000 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Phyl Dwyer Subject: Re: FAQ on BD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 >A very good overview of Biodynamic practice is Wolf Storl's Culture and >Horticulture: A Philosophy of Gardening. Another plus is that the book is >very inexpensive. > >The book is available from > >http://www.igg.com/bdnow/books/booksale.html > >OR > >http://www.biodynamic.net/links/history.html > >Sincerely, >John P. Gallerie ----------------------------- Dear John & BDNow Friends, You are ABSOLUTELY right. Wolf's book "Culture and Horticulture" is one of the best overviews of agriculture! And at $10, or less, it is also one of the few remaining "great deals" in the market place. Some months ago here at Kahumana Farm, Hawaii several us started reading and discussing Wolf's book. To the person, everyone in our study group proclaims with astonishment and appreciation what a fantastic work it is. (John, I feel very fortunate to have studied with you and Wolf those many years ago; and thrilled to see the study go on in our little group here!) Phyl Dwyer pdwyer@hawaii.rr.com =================================================== Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address =================================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 09:13:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16895 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:13:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29930; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:02:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29601 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:59:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-66.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.241] (may be forged)) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id IAA14336 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:03:05 -0600 Message-ID: <002201be6efd$7fffbbc0$f1f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:02:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different for different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD CSA farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. But maybe the solution is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three years ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year my partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. We are also breaking ground, the field has been wild, for were not sure how long. It has five foot wild carrot (which Pfeiffer points out as a good sign) and also bergamot and burdock and wild asparagus. We did an old fashion burn yesterday, which was incrediblely exciting. We plan on leaving a few beds to come back as nature would have it. I will let the list know how this goes. But I think it is very feasible to double dig a quarter acre each season as the one originally dug will become softer and softer, especially with compost and cover crops. So if you look at your plot of land as a ten year project instead of a one year project, the quest for the double dug farm looks more reasonable. on burned ground, Parker -----Original Message----- From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 5:29 PM Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging ><on this subject. Thus, a sutra is all you need, but the explanation >goes on and on. >> > >Hmmm Steve, >I quite liked your answer, but somehow missed your 'personal' sutra in >there! Just which method do you use? > >Thanks, >Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 09:27:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17356 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01530; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:17:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01276 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:14:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-76.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.251] (may be forged)) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id IAA14622 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:18:06 -0600 Message-ID: <002a01be6eff$99436800$f1f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: flow form Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:17:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE6EBC.555FC7C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE6EBC.555FC7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List- All the talk was so fascinating awhile back on the flowforms that I = bought Schwenk's Sensitive Chaos. This book has only increased my = enthusiasm for flowing forms. Yesterday I was playing with the 4 year = old son of the man who owns the land I live on. There is a spring which = runs into a hand dug pond which flows into a shallow creek that we run = the water ram off of. I showed Ian a picture of the flow form and = suggested that we go down to the creek and experiment with building a = natural run with the rocks already living there. This turned into an all = afternoon project as Ian exclaimed again and again "dis is wrere cool!, = I felt exactly the same way as we worked our way probably a quarter mile = down the creek and built four, probably 40 ft flowforms with the rocks = along the sides of the creek. I wrestled with the idea that I was = changing the natural flow of the creek, but also felt distinctly that = the dry rocks from the side of the bed were loving their new bath of = water. We spent time after each construction looking at the forms we = built, sitting in the sun, and explaining to Ian again and again why I = didn't want to connect all the flow forms together but leave large = spaces for the creek to spend its life in its natural state. He finally = said to me, "The creek is happy". As good an exclamation as could be. Parker ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE6EBC.555FC7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List-
All the talk was so = fascinating awhile=20 back on the flowforms that I bought Schwenk's Sensitive Chaos. This book = has=20 only increased my enthusiasm for flowing forms. Yesterday I was playing = with the=20 4 year old son of the man who owns the land I live on. There is a spring = which=20 runs into a hand dug pond which flows into a shallow creek that we run = the water=20 ram off of. I showed Ian a picture of the flow form and suggested that = we go=20 down to the creek and experiment with building a natural run with the = rocks=20 already living there. This turned into an all afternoon project as Ian = exclaimed=20 again and again "dis is wrere cool!, I felt exactly the same way as = we=20 worked our way probably a quarter mile down the creek and built four, = probably=20 40 ft flowforms with the rocks along the sides of the creek. I wrestled = with the=20 idea that I was changing the natural flow of the creek, but also felt = distinctly=20 that the dry rocks from the side of the bed were loving their new bath = of water.=20 We spent time after each construction looking at the forms we built, = sitting in=20 the sun, and explaining to Ian again and again why I didn't want to = connect all=20 the flow forms together but leave large spaces for the creek to spend = its life=20 in its natural state. He finally said to me, "The creek is = happy". As=20 good an exclamation as could be.
 
Parker
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE6EBC.555FC7C0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 09:34:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17550 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:34:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02087; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:23:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01836 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:20:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.134] (pm3shep1-163-39.intrepid.net [209.190.163.39]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21758 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:23:21 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002201be6efd$7fffbbc0$f1f2facf@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:25:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 >I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different for >different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD CSA >farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that >double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. Parker - was this a start-up CSA? Were these initial double-digs, or what was happening at this BD CSA? (remind me: which BD CSA is this?) But maybe the solution >is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. Like a growing number of BD growers, Bruce Blevins is a champion of the Italian machines. (NOT the Dutch machines) His motto: when you bring the tractor into the garden your main plan has to be how to get the tractor back out of the garden. I believe he plans for three spadings in a two season period. And then it's U-bars from then on. >Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple >more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three years >ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year my >partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. IMHO, If you are planning initial digs with u-bars, either you don't really need double- digging, ie your soil is very loose already, or you are going to have a couple of broken u-bars or you just plain aint going to make it. If time is of the essence, a single dig the first year, with good deep rooting cover crops over the winter (and daikon whenever possible otherwise :-), and a double dig the following spring, would seem like a good plan. The real Steve Moore, at Wilson College in Chambersburg PA, is a certified John Jeavons instructor and takes a very s-l-o-w approach to that two foot deep bed. He says that you should enjoy repeatedly discovering how much of your double digging the plants do for you....over the seasons as you dig and re-dig your bed. Your idea of 'volunteer beds' is rather exciting! Just my two-cents, Allan Balliett BIODYNAMICS Now! POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding << Please note the new fax number!! >> =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 09:39:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17950 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:39:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02703; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02409 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:26:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.126.15] (client196-126-15.bellatlantic.net [151.196.126.15]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26472 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:31:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903151431.JAA26472@smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:29:41 -0500 Subject: Re: GEO Consensus - BDNow From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 > > Dear Steven, > Your vigilance on this matter is appreciated. Does this mean that at the > new moon you will issue the consensus statement that you have thus far? > > Thanks for all your work and good energy. > Jane Sherry > That's a great idea, Jane. New moon comes Wednesday, March 17 -- Toora Loora, Loora -- at 1:49 PM EST -- AT 26 PISCES 44 --But then Moon is void of course till 7: 14 PM when it enters Aries. WILL make a note in my calendar -- and post what I've got so far Thursday morning (Hmmm- When Chiron goes Retrograde in Sag !) Pax, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 10:10:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18882 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:10:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA06437; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:59:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06035 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.4]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:01:12 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:00:13 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Fw: agsyn.com Message-ID: <89B950C89CEBB0A98525673500523FA6.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 <> Oh, that's easy Hugh! You're just too darn complimentary of him for him to sue you! <> Oh, thanks for this good laugh Hugh! It's unenlightened nonsense like this that's gonna make me include you in my prayers tonight along with Greg! Regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 10:44:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20306 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:44:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA11106; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:32:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09305 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:25:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.33.101 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:27:02 -0800 Message-ID: <002701be6ef7$e1cf76c0$65212599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Of Snails, Slugs and Remedies... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:24:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE6EB4.D27675E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE6EB4.D27675E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Cheryl, Certainly use the quote!=20 Andrew =20 =20 Dear Andrew,=20 Could I please use this answer that you gave on BD Now list, for = slugs and snails in our BDFGAA News Leaf. If you would like some = personal information to go with this piece, eg. where you live and what = you do, please add this info. I really appreciated the part that Steve = Diver used of yours in the ATTRA publication re the Comparative = paradigms of Traditional/mechanical. organic and BD farming systems. So = good to finally see the spiritual aspect of BD acknowledged. It is like = we are finally able to come out of the closet and say what we really are = on about. Thankyou, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322=20 =20 =20 =20 Question: Any suggestions for repelling slugs and snails?=20 Answer: From Dr. Andrew Lorand (BDNow list)=20 I suggest you make up some pine cone soup. Pine cone soup is made by = boiling pine cones in water. Use only a pot that you can afford to throw = away afterwards as it will be a sticky mess. Fill your pot 2/3 with = fertile (seeded) cones, then add water. Boil under low flames and stir. = Should produce a brown-black goo, that you can pour (at least a couple = of inches wide) around your garden or areas affected by snails. Do not = cover! My experience both in Switzerland and in Pennsylvania is that = this works quite well in repelling snails and slugs for a period of a = month, sometimes a little longer. I used only local species of pine in = each case. Snails will attempt to cross this line and retreat. This = recipe was given to me by a very old farmer who lived in the Jura = mountains of Switzerland near Neuchatel. Rationale: There is the = handed-down experience here of several generations, plus the obvious = attempt to create an ecological/physical barrier. An = anthroposophical/biodynamic background to this has to do with the fiery = planetary forces of Saturn (pine) being overwhelming for the snails and = slugs who live in the watery forces of the moon. =20 I would also advocate the use of nettle (urtica dioica) and = horsetail (equisetum arvense) teas. Snails and slugs, like other = so-called pests arrive when the garden or farm has an immunological = weakness or imbalance. Like all disease causing agents, they are = virtually always available (like bacteria and fungi) but only attack = when the ecosystem is weakened. They arrive to do a job, to call forth a = response from the farm organism to strengthen itself. Thus, I prefer to = strengthen the organism on a regular basis whenever possible. =20 Nettle is a gentle, but potent immunological support. I make both = passive (sun) teas and active (boiled) brews and spray all my seedlings = and field crops regularly. I prefer to spray a concentrated form, rather = than a diluted one even if it means less coverage. I also prefer to = spray in the week before full moon, adding growth potency to the teas = immunological effect. Nettle has of course a high concentration of = organically bound iron, which many folks attribute its effect to. On the = other hand horsetail must be boiled at least 15 minutes to release the = active ingredient (silica), which when sprayed on crops acts as an = astringent, which in itself provides a barrier effect. =20 Additionally, we could add an anthroposophical/biodynamic = perspective which might be that the presence of snails an slugs shows = that the four basic ether forces (life, chemical, light and warmth = ether) are out of balance. These forces run or hover along (in, below, = and above) the soil in a contoured, but defined set of patterns. When = the life and chemical ethers, that have mostly to do with the ground = itself, run to high above the ground we tend to see fog, dampness and = given the opportunity over time, also fungi, snails, slugs etc. = (creatures of the dark and damp). By applying nettle we strengthen the = plant and soil microbiology; by applying the horsetail we add a = crispness to the leaves, but both also act as regulators for the etheric = forces. The horsetail invites the light ether and the nettle the warmth = ether to regain their proper place and balance visa vie the life and = chemical ethers. This keeps the kinds of forces that the snails and = slugs bring in the soil, rather than above the soil - which is where = they belong most of the time. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE6EB4.D27675E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear=20 Cheryl,
 
Certainly use the quote! =
 
Andrew
 

Dear Andrew, =

Could I please use this = answer that you=20 gave on BD Now list, for slugs and snails  in our BDFGAA News = Leaf. If=20 you would like some personal information  to go with this = piece, eg.=20 where you live and what you do, please add this info.  I really = appreciated the part that Steve Diver used of yours in the ATTRA = publication=20 re the Comparative paradigms of Traditional/mechanical. organic and = BD=20 farming systems.  So good to finally see the spiritual aspect = of BD=20 acknowledged.  It is like we are finally able to come out of = the closet=20 and say what we really are on about.

Thankyou,

Cheryl Kemp
Education = & Advisory=20 Coordinator
Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc.
of = Australia=20 Inc.
P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office)
627 Tyringham Rd, = Dorrigo=20 Nth. 2453 (Home)
Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322=20

 

 

Question: Any = suggestions=20 for repelling slugs and snails?
Answer: From Dr. Andrew = Lorand (BDNow=20 list)
I suggest you make up some pine cone soup. Pine cone soup = is made=20 by boiling pine cones in water. Use only a pot that you can afford = to throw=20 away afterwards as it will be a sticky mess. Fill your pot 2/3 with = fertile=20 (seeded) cones, then add water. Boil under low flames and stir. = Should=20 produce a brown-black goo, that you can pour (at least a couple of = inches=20 wide) around your garden or areas affected by snails. Do not cover! = My=20 experience both in Switzerland and in Pennsylvania is that this = works quite=20 well in repelling snails and slugs for a period of a month, = sometimes a=20 little longer. I used only local species of pine in each case. = Snails will=20 attempt to cross this line and retreat. This recipe was given to me = by a=20 very old farmer who lived in the Jura mountains of Switzerland near=20 Neuchatel. Rationale: There is the handed-down experience here of = several=20 generations, plus the obvious attempt to create an = ecological/physical=20 barrier. An anthroposophical/biodynamic background to this has to do = with=20 the fiery planetary forces of Saturn (pine) being overwhelming for = the=20 snails and slugs who live in the watery forces of the moon.

I = would=20 also advocate the use of nettle (urtica dioica) and horsetail = (equisetum=20 arvense) teas. Snails and slugs, like other so-called pests arrive = when the=20 garden or farm has an immunological weakness or imbalance. Like all = disease=20 causing agents, they are virtually always available (like bacteria = and=20 fungi) but only attack when the ecosystem is weakened. They arrive = to do a=20 job, to call forth a response from the farm organism to strengthen = itself.=20 Thus, I prefer to strengthen the organism on a regular basis = whenever=20 possible.

Nettle is a gentle, but potent immunological = support. I=20 make both passive (sun) teas and active (boiled) brews and spray all = my=20 seedlings and field crops regularly. I prefer to spray a = concentrated form,=20 rather than a diluted one even if it means less coverage. I also = prefer to=20 spray in the week before full moon, adding growth potency to the = teas=20 immunological effect. Nettle has of course a high concentration of=20 organically bound iron, which many folks attribute its effect to. On = the=20 other hand horsetail must be boiled at least 15 minutes to release = the=20 active ingredient (silica), which when sprayed on crops acts as an=20 astringent, which in itself provides a barrier = effect.

Additionally,=20 we could add an anthroposophical/biodynamic perspective which might = be that=20 the presence of snails an slugs shows that the four basic ether = forces=20 (life, chemical, light and warmth ether) are out of balance. These = forces=20 run or hover along (in, below, and above) the soil in a contoured, = but=20 defined set of patterns. When the life and chemical ethers, that = have mostly=20 to do with the ground itself, run to high above the ground we tend = to see=20 fog, dampness and given the opportunity over time, also fungi, = snails, slugs=20 etc. (creatures of the dark and damp). By applying nettle we = strengthen the=20 plant and soil microbiology; by applying the horsetail we add a = crispness to=20 the leaves, but both also act as regulators for the etheric forces. = The=20 horsetail invites the light ether and the nettle the warmth ether to = regain=20 their proper place and balance visa vie the life and chemical = ethers. This=20 keeps the kinds of forces that the snails and slugs bring in the = soil,=20 rather than above the soil - which is where they belong most of the=20 time.


------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE6EB4.D27675E0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 11:37:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22572 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:37:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18846; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18416 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:24:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009CF039@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:27:26 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 11:27:23 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 11:26:54 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:26:54 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1287F9B92607@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 Just want to say that as a HUGE fan of mulching I think that it should be used at all times regarless of tilling (though that might have to be slightly amended in super wet climates...) And as for double digging, how practical is this really beyond the smallest hobby garden? I saw if forced (my word) on a largish scale on what started out as a bd development project in NW Dominican Republic and can tell you from having visited it 10 or so years after it's inception, it has yet to be adopted out in the community and the only reason it continues on the original project is that scholarshipped students do the work and grant money funds the whole thing. Farming is such hard work anyway, how many of you find time and energy to do double digging on top of that? (That's not a rhetorical question.) Moving Jane's question from theory to practice... Anita > Hello Bd-Now friends, > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > seeds.) > > I'm wondering about you bd farmers, where you stand with this and what are > some of your practices when you have new land to get ready for planting? > The no till folks say that disturbing the soil wipes out the beneficent > organisms. Others say, that Jeavons method, merely moves the top layer > over, digging down to allow for deep root growth, then adding the top layer > back on top. > > I understand that Jeavons studied both the french intensive method of > gardening/farming and also studied with Rudolf Steiner in the 20's before > bringing these methods to California, but was wondering, now that we've had > so much more time for industry (ag included) to screw with the soil, what > approach do you all take? > > Thanks for any insights into this mystery! > > Best Regards, > Jane Sherry > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 11:41:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22707 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19362; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:30:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19208 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:29:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009CF16E@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:31:55 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 11:31:52 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 11:31:43 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:31:41 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36EC58F9.3C6D@ipa.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <12880E467AF2@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 Just realized that when I posted my last post on this topic that it had already been well covered (pun?) beautifully and articulately by Steve and others. It ain't easy keeping up with all the posts sometimes! Anita > Jane Sherry wrote: > > Hello Bd-Now friends, > > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > > seeds.) > > In permaculture, you'd find preference for the no-till method. > In biointensive,you'd find preference for double-dig. > In Fukuoka-style natural farming, you'd find preference for no-till. > In Kyusei Nature Farming, you'd find preference for a mechanical spader. > In market gardening, who has time to double-dig, or rely on > comparatively more risky no-till. > In truck farming, you'd find preference for mechanical tillage. > In backyard gardening, you can do whatever you want. > In biodynamics, you have a framework to interweave biological > and dynamic practices to create a living dynamic force in the > garden or farm so there is flexibility and adaptability to > the whatever digging method works best for your particular > situation, though incorporation of compost would be seen as > a good soil management practice. > > "Nature bends and shapes the inputs of man and crafts her own" > > If we had the Sutras of Organic Agriculture laid out before us, > the sutras that do not yet exist in print but do exist in the collective > brains banks of millions of farmers worldwide, the sutras crafted > from thousands of years indigenous knowledge-tribal agriculture > mixed with modern ecological agriculture insights from clairovoyants > like Steiner and humus farmers like Ehrenfried Pfeiffer, we could refer > to a simple parable-paragraph and understand all that is necessary. > > Like Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language" or Pantajali's > "Yoga Sutra's", you can spin a long story to support an individual > sutra. > > In the examples above, it helps to understand the framework > you are working with. > > The "scale" of production makes a huge impact on how you approach > the no-till and double-dig picture. > > Double digging is *very* labor intensive. While you are still > digging and digging and digging and digging to establish the > market garden, the season is passing by and you are still digging > instead of planting and weeding and harvesting and playing. > > The largest double-dug market garden I've seen in California is > a one-acre farm owned by white guy recognized for his organic produce. > However, the actual physical digging was done by a full-time Mexican > laborer. > > Alex MacGregor in Tennesse has a 6-acre biointensive market garden, > I'm think. I am very interested to visit this farm and get a good > picture how the actual labor and mechanics are worked out. > > On the other hand, no-till veggie production is still largely > dependent on at least a minimum of herbides at the commercial scale. > At the home gardening scale, it is no problem. > > You see, the paragraphs are spinning off and I've barely touched > on this subject. Thus, a sutra is all you need, but the explanation > goes on and on. > > Steve Diver > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 11:59:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23549 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA22578; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:48:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from onondaga.mohawk.net (root@onondaga.mohawk.net [204.60.69.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22192 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:46:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.60.69.144] (riga15.mohawk.net [204.60.69.144]) by onondaga.mohawk.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA27607; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:44:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:26:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org, csa-l@prairienet.org From: Thompson Subject: farm help needed Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 Farm help needed for 1999 season Still Point Community Farm is a small but rapidly expanding CSA located in Amenia NY, approximately 90 miles north of New York City. We recently completed our first year of operation, serving 32 shares over a 16-week season from 1 acre of vegetables. We are growing to 150 shares on 6 acres this coming year. The farm totals 80 acres, with approximately 25 tillable acres, and includes some of the best agricultural soils in our region. The farm is managed biodynamically, and is certified organic by NOFA-NY. We are looking for highly motivated individuals to work with the primary farmer in our diversified vegetable operation. Applicants should have previous farm experience and a strong interest in farming as a career. Ideally, applicants should have been through a well-structured apprenticeship program and be looking for a chance to put into practice the skills they obtained. We are looking for people who can work quickly and efficiently but also care about the quality of their experience. A high degree of responsibility will be given, and in exchange a high level of quality in work is expected. Experience with machinery and with livestock and crops other than vegetables is desirable. Tasks will include planting, cultivating, harvesting and washing, as well as interacting with community members on a weekly basis. We offer a stipend of $300 per month plus room and board. Living accomodations are in the family farmhouse, and all cooking and cleaning will be shared. We are a vegetarian household. This position is not an apprenticeship: a base level of knowledge about farming and physical work is assumed. We offer a chance to experience the complete life of a young biodynamic farm, and to participate in its growth. Long-term involvement with the community farm is possible, based on compatibility. If interested, please contact: Nathaniel Thompson RR 1 Box 136 Amenia, NY 12501 (914) 373-8010 email: farmernat@mohawk.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 12:05:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23782 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06069 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:59:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07503; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:50:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from onondaga.mohawk.net (root@onondaga.mohawk.net [204.60.69.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07395 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:49:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from [204.60.69.144] (riga15.mohawk.net [204.60.69.144]) by onondaga.mohawk.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA27607; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:44:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:26:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org, csa-l@prairienet.org From: Thompson Subject: farm help needed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 Farm help needed for 1999 season Still Point Community Farm is a small but rapidly expanding CSA located in Amenia NY, approximately 90 miles north of New York City. We recently completed our first year of operation, serving 32 shares over a 16-week season from 1 acre of vegetables. We are growing to 150 shares on 6 acres this coming year. The farm totals 80 acres, with approximately 25 tillable acres, and includes some of the best agricultural soils in our region. The farm is managed biodynamically, and is certified organic by NOFA-NY. We are looking for highly motivated individuals to work with the primary farmer in our diversified vegetable operation. Applicants should have previous farm experience and a strong interest in farming as a career. Ideally, applicants should have been through a well-structured apprenticeship program and be looking for a chance to put into practice the skills they obtained. We are looking for people who can work quickly and efficiently but also care about the quality of their experience. A high degree of responsibility will be given, and in exchange a high level of quality in work is expected. Experience with machinery and with livestock and crops other than vegetables is desirable. Tasks will include planting, cultivating, harvesting and washing, as well as interacting with community members on a weekly basis. We offer a stipend of $300 per month plus room and board. Living accomodations are in the family farmhouse, and all cooking and cleaning will be shared. We are a vegetarian household. This position is not an apprenticeship: a base level of knowledge about farming and physical work is assumed. We offer a chance to experience the complete life of a young biodynamic farm, and to participate in its growth. Long-term involvement with the community farm is possible, based on compatibility. If interested, please contact: Nathaniel Thompson RR 1 Box 136 Amenia, NY 12501 (914) 373-8010 email: farmernat@mohawk.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 12:15:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24203 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:15:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA24046; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:57:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23605 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:54:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.158] (pm3shep3-163-158.intrepid.net [209.190.163.158]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24488 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:57:14 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:54:04 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Bee Advice from Jim Jensen Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 Dear Starhawk, Welcome to the difficult world of beekeeping. Don't get discouraged, even "experts" are losing 30-50% of their hives. But it is important work we do, not only for the bees, but for the plants and ourselves. Since this was your first year, I hope you will contanct me for the Biodynamic Honeybee Symposium. In it, we have all sorts of info for the beginner. Jim Jensen @ bdnut@mindspring.com Reviewing your leter brought several issues to the forefront. 1st, the spring swarm may have signaled a weak colony. It may have swarmed because there was not enough space to express itself, or it may have been stressed by parasites or conditions in the hive. The swarming itself means the colony had fewer bees to work with. (ie stores eaten in august) Increasing space for spring build up is critical. Secondly, are you monitoring the hives thru the year for pests? You mention using an internet oil treatment. Was it effective? Which pests are you dealing with? Considering that the bees made it into winter but then died as a small clump I'd say they just couldn't cut it. To many problems of whatever nature and there are not enough bees for the organism to stay viable thru the winter stress. Good luck this year, give me a hollar if you want to talk bees, Jim Jensen Jim Jensen Atlanta, GA bdnut@mindspring.com The BioDynamic Honeybee Symposium A Quarterly forum for discussion of important topics. From beekeepers to beekeepers. Contact me for copies. >Hello Friends on Bd-Now, >I was hoping someone on the list would have some advice for Starhawk, who >recently started keeping bees. I told her to tell you all a little about >her situation and that maybe someone could help her! Thanks...Allan, can >you forward this to Jim Jenson? > >Many thanks, >Jane Sherry >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Greetings, biodynamic beekeepers. I'm a beginning beekeeper and my first >hive died. My neighbor and I, who share the hive, want to try again but >we're wondering where we went wrong. Here's some of the details--we got >the hive in March and they swarmed sometime in May. We took out one super >of honey in June. At that time they still had another super left--but we >were warned by neighbors that there isn't a lot of summer forage up here. >We're in Cazadero, California, back in the hills, so the main agriculture >is grapes. A lot of people have fruit trees so there's good spring forage, >but by midsummer all the wildflowers are gone, it's very hot and dry, and >only some garden flowers to feed from. In late August we thought we might >take some more honey--but when we checked they had eaten most of what was >there earlier. We've been doing the essential oil treatment that's been >circulating around on the internet, which involves feeding them with sugar >syrup laced with wintergreen oil and cakes of crisco, sugar and >wintergreen, so they had some of that available to them at all times. > >In the fall, the rosemary bloomed and they were all over big patches of it, >and seemed to be happily storing up more honey. We generally have fairly >mild winters--this year we had a patch of very warm weather in December and >then a sudden freeze when the temperature dropped in one night down way >below freezing. We hadn't closed off the entrance to the hive and we had a >couple of supers on it--anyway, we didn't check it for a few weeks as I was >out of the country, but when we did, the feeding jar had been knocked over >by raccoons and the bees were all dead, mostly in a ball huddled in the >center of the brood chamber, about five or six inches in diameter. We >looked for mites with a hand lens and didn't see any but we also weren't >exactly sure what we were looking for. Could they have frozen to death? >Should we have insulated the hive, or taken off the extra super? They did >have some honey left. Any advice or suggestions would b much appreciated. >Blessings to you all, Starhawk > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 12:17:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24262 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:16:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25906; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:06:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25230 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.27]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:07:14 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:06:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bee Advice from Jim Jensen Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 thanks for forwarding this on for me, Allan... I hope Star can participate in Jim's Symposium...I've sent her the response! best regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 12:47:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25319 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:47:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01694; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:36:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01428 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:35:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MbJk-0003tb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:38:21 -0800 Message-ID: <36ED451E.2C0A9A0A@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:36:30 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: flow form References: <002a01be6eff$99436800$f1f2facf@pavilion> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------FE7C8377D640D25A31917696" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 --------------FE7C8377D640D25A31917696 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank U for sharing this with us, Parker. All the best and: children's wisdom is worth the universe. Regards Ferdinand parker wrote: > List-All the talk was so fascinating awhile back on the flowforms > that I bought Schwenk's Sensitive Chaos. This book has only increased > my enthusiasm for flowing forms. Yesterday I was playing with the 4 > year old son of the man who owns the land I live on. There is a spring > which runs into a hand dug pond which flows into a shallow creek that > we run the water ram off of. I showed Ian a picture of the flow form > and suggested that we go down to the creek and experiment with > building a natural run with the rocks already living there. This > turned into an all afternoon project as Ian exclaimed again and again > "dis is wrere cool!, I felt exactly the same way as we worked our way > probably a quarter mile down the creek and built four, probably 40 ft > flowforms with the rocks along the sides of the creek. I wrestled with > the idea that I was changing the natural flow of the creek, but also > felt distinctly that the dry rocks from the side of the bed were > loving their new bath of water. We spent time after each construction > looking at the forms we built, sitting in the sun, and explaining to > Ian again and again why I didn't want to connect all the flow forms > together but leave large spaces for the creek to spend its life in its > natural state. He finally said to me, "The creek is happy". As good an > exclamation as could be. Parker -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. --------------FE7C8377D640D25A31917696 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank U for sharing this with us, Parker. All the best and: children's wisdom is worth the universe. Regards Ferdinand

parker wrote:

 List-All the talk was so fascinating awhile back on the flowforms that I bought Schwenk's Sensitive Chaos. This book has only increased my enthusiasm for flowing forms. Yesterday I was playing with the 4 year old son of the man who owns the land I live on. There is a spring which runs into a hand dug pond which flows into a shallow creek that we run the water ram off of. I showed Ian a picture of the flow form and suggested that we go down to the creek and experiment with building a natural run with the rocks already living there. This turned into an all afternoon project as Ian exclaimed again and again "dis is wrere cool!, I felt exactly the same way as we worked our way probably a quarter mile down the creek and built four, probably 40 ft flowforms with the rocks along the sides of the creek. I wrestled with the idea that I was changing the natural flow of the creek, but also felt distinctly that the dry rocks from the side of the bed were loving their new bath of water. We spent time after each construction looking at the forms we built, sitting in the sun, and explaining to Ian again and again why I didn't want to connect all the flow forms together but leave large spaces for the creek to spend its life in its natural state. He finally said to me, "The creek is happy". As good an exclamation as could be. Parker

--

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C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO
AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD
 FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY.
  --------------FE7C8377D640D25A31917696-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 13:03:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26064 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA05157; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:52:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04874 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:51:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MbYS-0000fU-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:53:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36ED48AB.801D690E@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:51:39 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: <12880E467AF2@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 Careful, careful, careful when rototilling. It can make a real mess depending what soil and cover crop you have. God, one year we rototilled one field and hit quack grass.......! YOu never see the end, really! I do not know whether the rototiller is a good thing as it upsets the ground in almost 'anywhichway' you are looking at it. Of course, rototillers can be attached to tractors or hand operated etc. and the speed can be varied. Vegetable growers can hardly do without but them, please spray VALERIAN immediately after use. Valerian is a soil-surface healer (unifyer) - a skin builder - and can help you to keep the etheric forces inside the soil. Regards Ferdinand "Anita Graf (Staff)" wrote: > Just realized that when I posted my last post on this topic that it > had already been well covered (pun?) beautifully and articulately by > Steve and others. It ain't easy keeping up with all the posts > sometimes! > > Anita > > > Jane Sherry wrote: > > > Hello Bd-Now friends, > > > There has been much discussion about no-till (Ruth Stout?) vs. Jeavon's > > > style double digging (French biointensive) on the organic gardening list of > > > late. People with clay soils have been writing in asking if they should > > > rototill or double dig and add amendments, and being told to leave it alone > > > and add stuff on top in layers, like newpapers (sans colored inks), straw, > > > manure, etc. And that in a few years, they would have that lovely crumbly > > > soil. (To plant, just poke in a hole through all that stuff and drop in the > > > seeds.) > > > > In permaculture, you'd find preference for the no-till method. > > In biointensive,you'd find preference for double-dig. > > In Fukuoka-style natural farming, you'd find preference for no-till. > > In Kyusei Nature Farming, you'd find preference for a mechanical spader. > > In market gardening, who has time to double-dig, or rely on > > comparatively more risky no-till. > > In truck farming, you'd find preference for mechanical tillage. > > In backyard gardening, you can do whatever you want. > > In biodynamics, you have a framework to interweave biological > > and dynamic practices to create a living dynamic force in the > > garden or farm so there is flexibility and adaptability to > > the whatever digging method works best for your particular > > situation, though incorporation of compost would be seen as > > a good soil management practice. > > > > "Nature bends and shapes the inputs of man and crafts her own" > > > > If we had the Sutras of Organic Agriculture laid out before us, > > the sutras that do not yet exist in print but do exist in the collective > > brains banks of millions of farmers worldwide, the sutras crafted > > from thousands of years indigenous knowledge-tribal agriculture > > mixed with modern ecological agriculture insights from clairovoyants > > like Steiner and humus farmers like Ehrenfried Pfeiffer, we could refer > > to a simple parable-paragraph and understand all that is necessary. > > > > Like Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language" or Pantajali's > > "Yoga Sutra's", you can spin a long story to support an individual > > sutra. > > > > In the examples above, it helps to understand the framework > > you are working with. > > > > The "scale" of production makes a huge impact on how you approach > > the no-till and double-dig picture. > > > > Double digging is *very* labor intensive. While you are still > > digging and digging and digging and digging to establish the > > market garden, the season is passing by and you are still digging > > instead of planting and weeding and harvesting and playing. > > > > The largest double-dug market garden I've seen in California is > > a one-acre farm owned by white guy recognized for his organic produce. > > However, the actual physical digging was done by a full-time Mexican > > laborer. > > > > Alex MacGregor in Tennesse has a 6-acre biointensive market garden, > > I'm think. I am very interested to visit this farm and get a good > > picture how the actual labor and mechanics are worked out. > > > > On the other hand, no-till veggie production is still largely > > dependent on at least a minimum of herbides at the commercial scale. > > At the home gardening scale, it is no problem. > > > > You see, the paragraphs are spinning off and I've barely touched > > on this subject. Thus, a sutra is all you need, but the explanation > > goes on and on. > > > > Steve Diver > > > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 14:16:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28597 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19547; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19298 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:04:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D1606@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:49 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:06:47 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:06:46 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:40 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: <36E96792.B80475D0@direct.ca> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 Hola Guillermo, I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, that is!). Hasta luego, Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 14:34:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28984 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23275; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:24:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22557 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:20:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D1AA1@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:23:16 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:23:14 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:23:08 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:23:01 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AE9C35341@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 oops, I didn't mean to send this out to everyone. I haven't asked Tom permission to spread his name around, so I would appreciate if everyone would bear this in mind. Thanks. Anita > Hola Guillermo, > > I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on > organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is > involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as > export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me > the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and > helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His > phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I > talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the > soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, > that is!). > > Hasta luego, > Anita > > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 14:28:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28832 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21946; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:17:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21432 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:15:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D193D@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:18:15 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:18:13 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:17:49 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:17:42 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: OFF: unable to receive/send mail Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36EA8C89.49E9AF66@direct.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AD30B0140@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 Ferdinand (and any others with this problem) May I suggest that you work on your response in word processing mode (ie not on e-mail) and when you are ready to post it, you can cut and paste it into e-mail (if you can print out the letters you want to respond to you could have them this way for reference. If don't have a printer, try cutting from e-mail and pasting into your word processor package and then start writing your answer underneith.) Since you often put a lot of time and effort into writing a long letter this could also save you time on the internet which you may be paying for by the minute. Just a suggestion. --Anita > The challenge is an additional one. I am trying to receive some 20 - 40 posts > and store them. Then, I go through them step by step and either discharge them > or answer. The answer I store in order to send it the next day - but what > really irks me is the fact that (at times) my system or the connection or > whatever breaks down and a long night's work is gone. Ferdinand > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > >Dear friends, > > > > > >Living in the boonies has its disadvantages, too. My server does not > > >have enough lines and I can only receive or send posts for about 4 - 5 > > >hours per night. So, if you do not hear from you that much any longer, > > >it is the server that has 'cut me out'. In the past I could 'digest' > > >posts on an ongoing basis. At the moment there is a line : user > > >relationship of 1:20 which is far too high. Regards Ferdinand > > > > Everyone: > > > > Many of us are faced with this problem. A remedy is on the horizon. Many of > > the national long distance companies are offering internet connections as > > part of your regular service. You might want to check in with AT&T or > > Sprint, and so on. > > > > -Allan Balliett > > igg@igg.com > > -- > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO > AN UNDERSTANDING > OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST > FOUNDATION, > A REGISTERED CHARITY. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 14:52:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29486 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:52:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA27010; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26655 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:40:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.178] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.178]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8N00GOWI749B@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:30:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:36:46 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <36DC2B91.4F09@xtra.co.nz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA26696 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 >>Hugh >> >>Thank you for your reply on organic chemistry. >> >>I appreciate CHO, sugars and fats etc are all products of living >>organisms. From your reply (and other thoughts), is it correct to >>conclude that all living organisms make use of and need nitrogen to >>exist? Naturally if it is not in the soil then it is easily extracted >>from the atmosphere. Even fungi and mosses in N depleted soils could get >>what they need from the air etc. So anyway is this an appropriate >>conclusion. >> >>Cheers >> >>Glen A. > >Glen, et. al., > >All living organisms need nitrogen to form amino acids and proteins. > >I believe there are algae as well as the whole Nitrobacteracea family that >can fix nitrogen from the air or from air dissolved in water. As well >nitrogen compounds develop in thunderstorms and snowstorms so there tends >to be an adequate nitrogen cycle if everything is working well enough. > >Best, >Hugh A small clarification: Different organisms vary enormously in their ability to synthesized aminoacids and in the forms of nitrogen used for this. Man can only make 50 % of the required aminoacids, the so called essential aminoacids, have to come from the diet. higher animals can use ammonium ions as the N source for making non essential aminoacids (AA), but they can not use nitrite, nitrate or atmospheric N. Higher plants are more versatile, they can make all their required AA and can use as N source ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. The legumininous plants, as you all know, through the N fixing bacteria in their root nodules are even capable to use atmospheric N, which they convert into ammonia. Microrganisms also vary a great deal in its ability to use and synthesize AA., some need enviroments rich in preformed AA, others, as above, can use the N available in the air. Hope this helps clarify things Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:00:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28597 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19547; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19298 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:04:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D1606@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:49 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:06:47 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:06:46 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:40 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: <36E96792.B80475D0@direct.ca> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 Hola Guillermo, I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, that is!). Hasta luego, Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:00:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28984 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23275; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:24:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22557 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:20:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D1AA1@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:23:16 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:23:14 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:23:08 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:23:01 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AE9C35341@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 oops, I didn't mean to send this out to everyone. I haven't asked Tom permission to spread his name around, so I would appreciate if everyone would bear this in mind. Thanks. Anita > Hola Guillermo, > > I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on > organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is > involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as > export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me > the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and > helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His > phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I > talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the > soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, > that is!). > > Hasta luego, > Anita > > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:00:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28832 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21946; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:17:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21432 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:15:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009D193D@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:18:15 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:18:13 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Mar 99 14:17:49 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:17:42 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: OFF: unable to receive/send mail Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36EA8C89.49E9AF66@direct.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <128AD30B0140@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 Ferdinand (and any others with this problem) May I suggest that you work on your response in word processing mode (ie not on e-mail) and when you are ready to post it, you can cut and paste it into e-mail (if you can print out the letters you want to respond to you could have them this way for reference. If don't have a printer, try cutting from e-mail and pasting into your word processor package and then start writing your answer underneith.) Since you often put a lot of time and effort into writing a long letter this could also save you time on the internet which you may be paying for by the minute. Just a suggestion. --Anita > The challenge is an additional one. I am trying to receive some 20 - 40 posts > and store them. Then, I go through them step by step and either discharge them > or answer. The answer I store in order to send it the next day - but what > really irks me is the fact that (at times) my system or the connection or > whatever breaks down and a long night's work is gone. Ferdinand > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > >Dear friends, > > > > > >Living in the boonies has its disadvantages, too. My server does not > > >have enough lines and I can only receive or send posts for about 4 - 5 > > >hours per night. So, if you do not hear from you that much any longer, > > >it is the server that has 'cut me out'. In the past I could 'digest' > > >posts on an ongoing basis. At the moment there is a line : user > > >relationship of 1:20 which is far too high. Regards Ferdinand > > > > Everyone: > > > > Many of us are faced with this problem. A remedy is on the horizon. Many of > > the national long distance companies are offering internet connections as > > part of your regular service. You might want to check in with AT&T or > > Sprint, and so on. > > > > -Allan Balliett > > igg@igg.com > > -- > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO > AN UNDERSTANDING > OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST > FOUNDATION, > A REGISTERED CHARITY. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:39:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29486 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:52:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA27010; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26655 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:40:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.178] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.178]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8N00GOWI749B@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:30:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:36:46 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <36DC2B91.4F09@xtra.co.nz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA26696 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 >>Hugh >> >>Thank you for your reply on organic chemistry. >> >>I appreciate CHO, sugars and fats etc are all products of living >>organisms. From your reply (and other thoughts), is it correct to >>conclude that all living organisms make use of and need nitrogen to >>exist? Naturally if it is not in the soil then it is easily extracted >>from the atmosphere. Even fungi and mosses in N depleted soils could get >>what they need from the air etc. So anyway is this an appropriate >>conclusion. >> >>Cheers >> >>Glen A. > >Glen, et. al., > >All living organisms need nitrogen to form amino acids and proteins. > >I believe there are algae as well as the whole Nitrobacteracea family that >can fix nitrogen from the air or from air dissolved in water. As well >nitrogen compounds develop in thunderstorms and snowstorms so there tends >to be an adequate nitrogen cycle if everything is working well enough. > >Best, >Hugh A small clarification: Different organisms vary enormously in their ability to synthesized aminoacids and in the forms of nitrogen used for this. Man can only make 50 % of the required aminoacids, the so called essential aminoacids, have to come from the diet. higher animals can use ammonium ions as the N source for making non essential aminoacids (AA), but they can not use nitrite, nitrate or atmospheric N. Higher plants are more versatile, they can make all their required AA and can use as N source ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. The legumininous plants, as you all know, through the N fixing bacteria in their root nodules are even capable to use atmospheric N, which they convert into ammonia. Microrganisms also vary a great deal in its ability to use and synthesize AA., some need enviroments rich in preformed AA, others, as above, can use the N available in the air. Hope this helps clarify things Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 15:45:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA01819 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:45:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06772; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:34:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06326 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:31:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.32] (pm3shep2-163-108.intrepid.net [209.190.163.108]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09732; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:34:22 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:36:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Al Kapuler replies "The impact of GMO's on our future" Cc: Jan Stettler Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 Dear Allan, I returned from three weeks in Belize to your communications. After reflecting on the issues which surface every time a new gene tech wonder development like tripling the amount of iron in rice by transferring the soybean ferritin gene to rice (latest issue of biotechnology) takes place, as well as some of the mindbending scenarios that I discussed like growing crops in the ocean, I'm glad to participate in the discussion of the consequences and impacts of our adventuring with genetic technologies and the biosphere. First thing that comes to me is that a significant part of my distrust of GMO's is that our government, and the USDA in particular, but certainly the FDA also, failed to protect our food system. The introduction of genetically modified soybeans, rape seed and corn and their derived food products into the mainstream food system of America and the world without extensive and thorough examination both of the foodstuffs and the impact on the environment (read this as biospheric ecosystems)and without proper and appropriate labelling is foolish, potentially dangerous, immoral. illicit and unacceptable. Now comes the harder issue; what to do with the truly out of control biotechnology industry. This dovetails with the process of turning the molecular biology of life into a cellular and molecular real estate business. While I am very glad to read that Tony Settler has understood what a marvelous future may be possible by developing new kinds of plants using transgenetic techniques and implementing concepts for non-violence into our lives as well as generating new kinds of diversity, the forces of greed, ignorance, arrogance, desire for power and control, all manifestations of distorted ego's and the lack of a healthy and direct connection to the basic divine fount of existence make these future potentialities difficult to implement. I keep remembering the slogans of my childhood "Better living thru chemistry", "Atoms for Peace", and the current cry of the local paperpulp industry "Dilution is the solution to pollution". Years ago in writing about Ecosanity, one of the prime tenets was that all industry and truly all endeavor must have a zero-sum cycle. That means no pollution. Totally clean cycles. And that we should fine and diminish all producers who pollute in proportion to their destructive forces. Thus the companies that have genetically polluted the food system need to be held responsible just like the chemical companies that have proliferated and distributed agricultural poisons need to be held responsible for the illnesses, species loss and ecodevastation that arises from the misuse of chemistry. The misuse of physics and mathematics has led to atomic pollution. The misuse of chemistry has led to a spectrum of pollutions. Now genetic technology is coming on with slogans and solutions, more food on less ground, more efficient production of carbonaceous material from sunlight, CO2 and water while the real issues are our lack of loving and heartfelt cooperation, lack of efficient and fair distribution of materials, insufficient vision of a interdependant and harmonious local and world society. So rather that being "stupidly reactionary", we have to take it as it comes, with a wholistic vision, an integrating understanding and a patience that transcends the hubris is small-time discoveries, fame and profit. Serving the collective wellbeing advances our souls. Best to you. Al Kapuler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 17:08:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04714 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:08:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20205; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:56:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (send205.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.129]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20065 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:56:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.205.40.10] by send205.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:00:48 PST Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:00:48 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 Hey all, it's easy to get into black and white thinking about tilling, but from my reading and experience, it seems that one method alone is not adequate. The rodales organic gardening book talks about the positive value of no-till for several years, but how eventually the soil needs aeration. How about the idea of monitoring the soil and tilling in OM after several years of no-till, when the soil could use the additioon of more air. Observatioon and real decisioon-making always beat the 'program' approach. That's why i monitor the BD list, because of the asstute observatioons! Bruce Ritchie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:22:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13575 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:22:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA23982; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:07:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23766 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:05:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-68.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.243] (may be forged)) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id UAA31976 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:08:26 -0600 Message-ID: <002801be6f62$d433df40$f3f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:04:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 Dear Alan- Thank-you so much for your two-cents, worth at least a dime. I think you are maybe right about the single dig. patience is a virtue. Those damn tools are enough to make anyone gung-ho. We burned yesterday and today and it seemed to be the perfect time, a nice little mossy mat protected the soil, and the deer trail and our own breaks made beautiful contours in the garden which I will leave for the paths. I will stick that big dog of a tool down in there a couple times to see what's what, but the potato fork should turn it, you're right it seems pretty loose underneath, crossing my fingers about the rocks. I was working at Coulee Springs Farm in Sparta WI last season and we were purely old fashion tractor and rototiller. I wanted to make some double dug beds, but my mentor pleaded no time. I was completely unimpressed with the soil structure there. It was a beginning BD farm, but a CSA for 6 years. Blevins sounds like a thoughtful, patient man. My friend has an Italian spader that I will check out this season, but what is everyone going to do when the fossil fuel runs out. There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! Parker -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 6:27 AM Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging >>I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different for >>different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD CSA >>farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that >>double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. > >Parker - was this a start-up CSA? Were these initial double-digs, or what >was happening at this BD CSA? (remind me: which BD CSA is this?) > >But maybe the solution >>is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. > >Like a growing number of BD growers, Bruce Blevins is a champion of the >Italian machines. (NOT the Dutch machines) His motto: when you bring the >tractor into the garden your main plan has to be how to get the tractor >back out of the garden. I believe he plans for three spadings in a two >season period. And then it's U-bars from then on. > >>Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple >>more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three years >>ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year my >>partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. > >IMHO, If you are planning initial digs with u-bars, either you don't really >need double- digging, ie your soil is very loose already, or you are going >to have a couple of broken u-bars or you just plain aint going to make it. >If time is of the essence, a single dig the first year, with good deep >rooting cover crops over the winter (and daikon whenever possible otherwise >:-), and a double dig the following spring, would seem like a good plan. > >The real Steve Moore, at Wilson College in Chambersburg PA, is a certified >John Jeavons instructor and takes a very s-l-o-w approach to that two foot >deep bed. He says that you should enjoy repeatedly discovering how much of >your double digging the plants do for you....over the seasons as you dig >and re-dig your bed. > >Your idea of 'volunteer beds' is rather exciting! > >Just my two-cents, > >Allan Balliett >BIODYNAMICS Now! >POB 3047 >Shepherdstown, WV >25443 >(304) 876-2373 >(815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding << Please note the new fax number!! >> > > >=================================================================== > >SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! > Know the latest releases!! > Get the BEST prices!! > > >TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L > You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the >message > >New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ > >CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net > >Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! > >http://www.igg.com > >=================================================================== >How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html >How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html >=================================================================== >INTERGALACTIC GARAGE >Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles >110 West German Street >POB 3047 >Shepherdstown, WV 25443 >(304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX >Email = igg@igg.com >HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:31:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13873 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:31:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25148; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:19:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24907 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:17:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.186]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990316022017.NYTX682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:20:17 +1300 Message-ID: <36EDC01B.4FAE@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:21:15 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 References: <36DC2B91.4F09@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 > Different organisms vary enormously in their ability to synthesized aminoacids and in the forms of nitrogen used for this. Man can only make 50 % of the required aminoacids, the so called essential aminoacids, have to come from the diet. > > higher animals can use ammonium ions as the N source for making non essential aminoacids (AA), but they can not use nitrite, nitrate or atmospheric N. Higher plants are more versatile, they can make all their required AA and can use as N source ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. The legumininous plants, as you all know, through the N fixing bacteria in their root nodules are even capable to use atmospheric N, which they convert into ammonia. > > Microrganisms also vary a great deal in its ability to use and synthesize AA., some need enviroments rich in preformed AA, others, as above, can use the N available in the air. > > Hope this helps clarify things > > Guillermo Romero I. > Comala, Colima, MEXICO > Thank you for this GR I am left with the question. We have it stated that plants do not incarnate the Astrality and that it hovers above the plant slightly impressing itself upon the forces moving upwards, and only rarely entering deeply into plants to produce poisons. Yet we have statements in lecture 3 saying how the Astrality is carried by nitrogen and where nitrogen goes so the Astrality follows. And that nitrogen is of central importance for the distribution of the etheric, And then statements above that nitrogen is necessary in just about all plant growth and the paths of nitrogen can be seen through out all the plant, yet we are saying that the astrality does not follow it into plants. So what is the nature of this nitrogen and its relationship to the astrality? Is it possible that Just as we have living and dead nitrogen, do we have a bound and free Astrality? And that while we can talk of the Astral body not incarnating ( free astrality) do we have a situation such as expressed in the 0-7 year old or 7-14 year old where we can say that the astral body has not fully incarnated ( to become bound astrality) however it does impress itself upon the life form enough for organ formation and sentient life to manifest in the young child, or in our case the pre-flowering plant? cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:37:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14011 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:37:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25928; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:25:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA25878 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:25:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10MjZr-0000hE-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:27:31 -0800 Message-ID: <36EDC11D.E7308798@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:25:33 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies "The impact of GMO's on our future" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 Dear Al, Are you saying that we should wait and see and not do anything but behave like sheep? Or WHAT is your course of action here? Do you have any PRACTICAL SUGGESTIONS such as: 1. 2. 3. 4. etc. I am interested. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > speaks!! He's offering to 'dialogue' with us on this topic. Please don't > hesitate to speak up - or out, on this issue, given this opportunity. > -Allan Balliett, moderator, BD Now! > > > Dear Allan, > I returned from three weeks in Belize to your communications. After > reflecting on the issues which surface every time a new gene tech wonder > development like tripling the amount of iron in rice by transferring the > soybean ferritin gene to rice (latest issue of biotechnology) takes place, > as well as some of the mindbending scenarios that I discussed like growing > crops in the ocean, I'm glad to participate in the discussion of the > consequences and impacts of our adventuring with genetic technologies and > the biosphere. > First thing that comes to me is that a significant part of my > distrust of GMO's is that our government, and the USDA in particular, but > certainly the FDA also, failed to protect our food system. > The introduction of genetically modified soybeans, rape seed and corn and > their derived food products into the mainstream food system of America and > the world without extensive and thorough examination both of the foodstuffs > and the impact on the environment (read this as biospheric ecosystems)and > without proper and appropriate labelling is foolish, potentially dangerous, > immoral. illicit and unacceptable. > Now comes the harder issue; what to do with the truly out of > control biotechnology industry. > This dovetails with the process of turning the molecular biology of life > into a cellular and molecular real estate business. > While I am very glad to read that Tony Settler has understood what > a marvelous future may be possible by developing new kinds of plants using > transgenetic techniques and implementing concepts for non-violence into our > lives as well as generating new kinds of diversity, the forces of greed, > ignorance, arrogance, desire for power and control, all manifestations of > distorted ego's and the lack of a healthy and direct connection to the > basic divine fount of existence make these future potentialities difficult > to implement. > I keep remembering the slogans of my childhood "Better living thru > chemistry", "Atoms for Peace", and the current cry of the local paperpulp > industry "Dilution is the solution to pollution". > Years ago in writing about Ecosanity, one of the prime tenets was > that all industry and truly all endeavor must have a zero-sum cycle. That > means no pollution. Totally clean cycles. And that we should fine and > diminish all producers who pollute in proportion to their destructive > forces. Thus the companies that have genetically polluted the food system > need to be held responsible just like the chemical companies that have > proliferated and distributed agricultural poisons need to be held > responsible for the illnesses, species loss and ecodevastation that arises > from the misuse of chemistry. > The misuse of physics and mathematics has led to atomic pollution. > The misuse of chemistry has led to a spectrum of pollutions. > Now genetic technology is coming on with slogans and solutions, > more food on less ground, more efficient production of carbonaceous > material from sunlight, CO2 and water while the real issues are our lack of > loving and heartfelt cooperation, lack of efficient and fair distribution > of materials, insufficient vision of a interdependant and harmonious local > and world society. > So rather that being "stupidly reactionary", we have to take it as > it comes, with a wholistic vision, an integrating understanding and a > patience that transcends the hubris is small-time discoveries, fame and > profit. Serving the collective wellbeing advances our souls. > Best to you. > Al Kapuler -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:48:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14386 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA27324; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:37:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27204 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:36:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Mjkz-0004H8-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:39:01 -0800 Message-ID: <36EDC3BE.EA7ADA05@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:36:46 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 Dear Bruce, If I was I weather forteller...... and here comes another challenge. Last year we double tilled in our garden and raised our beds with this method. And, my golly, we had the dryest year ever. No rain for 5 months. You should have seen the desert. So, really, double digging aereates the soil too and can cause the loss of a lot of moisture. Perhaps, this year we will simply turn the soil over, keep the beds low (but, what do you see in store for the Pacific Northwest?) Lots of rain or what? Kind regards Ferdinand bruce ritchie wrote: > Hey all, > it's easy to get into black and white thinking about tilling, > but from my reading and experience, it seems that one method alone is > not adequate. The rodales organic gardening book talks about the > positive value of no-till for several years, but how eventually the > soil needs aeration. How about the idea of monitoring the soil and > tilling in OM after several years of no-till, when the soil could use > the additioon of more air. Observatioon and real decisioon-making > always beat the 'program' approach. That's why i monitor the BD list, > because of the asstute observatioons! Bruce Ritchie > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 21:52:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14483 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:52:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA27716; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:40:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27363 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:38:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-4.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.36]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id SAA21491 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:40:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990315185644.00930eb0@mail.kootenay.com> Message-Id: <4.1.19990315185644.00930eb0@mail.kootenay.com> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:20:36 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies: Hey Steven! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 Steve McFadden and all... Well, this from Al Kapuler just in time for your new moon deadline...what a beautiful exposition. I've hesitated to add to this GEO Consensus thread myself because: 1) the whole thing just makes me spittin' mad; 2) I don't have the credentials or background to articulate the reasons that I KNOW GE is a terrible mistake, a crime against humanity and the Planet. What I do want to add is a personal note to Rob Johnson of Johnny's Selected Seeds; it was his stance on GE seeds that got us going on this thread in the first place. Dear Rob: I've purchased seed from Johnny's for more than a decade now, sometimes a considerable amount, at least by a small-time gardener's standards. I always looked forward to getting your catalog, to see the newest photo of you and your employee gang. I was always impressed that your Maine growout/research farm was certified organic, and like many of us I figured most if not all your seeds were organic. The last few years you've had a little article in the catalog titled "Organic Growing at Johnny's" which has been a bit of a waffle job: Yes, you say, your farm is certified organic, but then you say "...we strive to supply seeds grown with minimal pesticide use" and "...organic does not necessarily mean 'good'" and so on... clearly stating between the lines that your commitment is not total. Now you're waffling bigtime on genetic engineering. It's been said here on the BDNOW! List that you can't control your suppliers' methods or seed sources. OK. But it smells like a sellout to me and you''ve lost me as a customer. You see, Rob, there are other seed growers who don't abandon their ideals in the face of what Al Kapular calls "...foolish, potentially dangerous, immoral. illicit and unacceptable..." growing and business practices. So long, Rob, Woody Wodraska From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 22:25:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15428 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:25:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA00827; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:13:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00788 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10MkKZ-00075L-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:15:48 -0800 Message-ID: <36EDCC5B.DB1078FB@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:13:31 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: <002801be6f62$d433df40$f3f2facf@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 Dear Parker, When I was a kid we burned, burned, burned in the garden. Baby Burn, was the call..... My mother (there she is running again) came out all the time and doused the fire. Stop, stop, stop was her war cry. Why? We were asked to make a study (1955!) and first, we had to smell the air. Atrocious.Then, we had to look at the carbon build up. She told us it will remain so for thousands of years and deplete the soil of nutrients. I had no clue what that meant. Then, we looked at a half burned hedge hog which looked dreadful and we had to kill it........(never a fire anymore, I thought). And she pointed out that the small garden life (biobalance she said) woule be upset. We looked at the water which was as gray as can be. Sticks did not burn properly and could not be used any longer. Entire bug schools got roasted. The frogs that made it out of the moss were blown up by the heat. It was a real lesson. And so, she said: All goes onto the compost. Again 1955 and BD!! Nothing will be burned, nothing. That's my story, my friend. And, one more thing. I don't think that fossil fuel will run out - we are going to run out of other things first: (again Mama) God had a reason to keep that oil far below us, it is the blood of the earth, she said. A lot of it. More than you can ever think of. Blood is a very, very special juice and nobody drinks it without getting punished (and bang, there went another moskito....). Regards Ferdinand parker wrote: > Dear Alan- > Thank-you so much for your two-cents, worth at least a dime. I think you are > maybe right about the single dig. patience is a virtue. Those damn tools are > enough to make anyone gung-ho. We burned yesterday and today and it seemed > to be the perfect time, a nice little mossy mat protected the soil, and the > deer trail and our own breaks made beautiful contours in the garden which I > will leave for the paths. I will stick that big dog of a tool down in there > a couple times to see what's what, but the potato fork should turn it, > you're right it seems pretty loose underneath, crossing my fingers about the > rocks. > I was working at Coulee Springs Farm in Sparta WI last season and we > were purely old fashion tractor and rototiller. I wanted to make some double > dug beds, but my mentor pleaded no time. I was completely unimpressed with > the soil structure there. It was a beginning BD farm, but a CSA for 6 years. > Blevins sounds like a thoughtful, patient man. My friend has an Italian > spader that I will check out this season, but what is everyone going to do > when the fossil fuel runs out. > There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference > selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! > Parker > -----Original Message----- > From: Intergalactic Garage > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 6:27 AM > Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging > > >>I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different > for > >>different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD > CSA > >>farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that > >>double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. > > > >Parker - was this a start-up CSA? Were these initial double-digs, or what > >was happening at this BD CSA? (remind me: which BD CSA is this?) > > > >But maybe the solution > >>is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. > > > >Like a growing number of BD growers, Bruce Blevins is a champion of the > >Italian machines. (NOT the Dutch machines) His motto: when you bring the > >tractor into the garden your main plan has to be how to get the tractor > >back out of the garden. I believe he plans for three spadings in a two > >season period. And then it's U-bars from then on. > > > >>Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple > >>more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three > years > >>ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year > my > >>partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. > > > >IMHO, If you are planning initial digs with u-bars, either you don't really > >need double- digging, ie your soil is very loose already, or you are going > >to have a couple of broken u-bars or you just plain aint going to make it. > >If time is of the essence, a single dig the first year, with good deep > >rooting cover crops over the winter (and daikon whenever possible otherwise > >:-), and a double dig the following spring, would seem like a good plan. > > > >The real Steve Moore, at Wilson College in Chambersburg PA, is a certified > >John Jeavons instructor and takes a very s-l-o-w approach to that two foot > >deep bed. He says that you should enjoy repeatedly discovering how much of > >your double digging the plants do for you....over the seasons as you dig > >and re-dig your bed. > > > >Your idea of 'volunteer beds' is rather exciting! > > > >Just my two-cents, > > > >Allan Balliett > >BIODYNAMICS Now! > >POB 3047 > >Shepherdstown, WV > >25443 > >(304) 876-2373 > >(815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding << Please note the new fax number!! >> > > > > > >=================================================================== > > > >SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! > > Know the latest releases!! > > Get the BEST prices!! > > > > > >TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L > > You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the > >message > > > >New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L > > > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^ > > > >CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net > > > >Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! > > > >http://www.igg.com > > > >=================================================================== > >How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html > >How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html > >=================================================================== > >INTERGALACTIC GARAGE > >Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles > >110 West German Street > >POB 3047 > >Shepherdstown, WV 25443 > >(304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX > >Email = igg@igg.com > >HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 22:49:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA16185 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:49:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA03474; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:37:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03087 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:34:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA09006 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:36:55 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6F2A.B1EF1D60@FLYLO>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:27:57 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6F2A.B1EF1D60@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: No till versus Double Digging Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:22:53 -0600 Encoding: 21 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 I'm already seeing some good examples in a variety of 'patches' around our place. John turned soil several times, and mounded it up into some 'artistic' raised beds. Looks like fine dark loam. I waited awhile and covered it all with spent hay till I was ready to plant in it. I started cabbages and some cutting lettuce and when they were big enough, went out to those beds. But, I had some leftover seedlings I didn't want to waste. So, kind of 'stepped down' in the area beyond the path around the raised beds, I just dug a little hole for each, patted it in, and was careful not to step on them till they took off. With the rains we had last couple of days, raised beds still look dry but the plants they look down on are quite a bit bigger. Granted, if we're going to have a wet year, the things with their feet high and dry stand a better chance, but we've had too many dry summers lately, I'm betting on the flatlander plants doing best this year. In order to keep the ryegrass and early weed crop down, I have been using my old hand sheep shears to 'prune' around the vegetables. Works if I don't want to disturb the feeder roots on the plants I'm trying to get going. These shears really sing while they work but I still wouldn't want to do 50 acre patches with them. The early results of my experiment are we have fairly fertile soil, but it's not nearly as 'deep' as I once supposed. Even turning 4 inches upside down has set the plants back considerably. (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 15 23:15:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16958 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA06059; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05769 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:01:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13063 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:04:20 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6F2E.869A7200@FLYLO>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:55:23 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6F2E.869A7200@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Al Kapuler Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:54:24 -0600 Encoding: 3 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 Afraid I don't have much dialog on the topic of A Kapuler, but I'd love to know more about his trip to Belize. One of my favorite places on Earth! Lived there for quite awhile (pre-goats) of course! (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 00:52:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA19934 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:52:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA14688; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:34:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14586 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:32:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 208.254.229.171 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:34:33 -0800 Message-ID: <003401be6f6e$483a0440$11242599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:31:44 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 Dear Colleagues, During the last few years, like many of you, I have been following with grave interest the of GMO's and related biotechnologies. With great concern I have watched the commercialization of insufficiently tested organisms enter the food stream. And I have been applauding the many efforts underway to develop comprehensive testing, manditory labeling, public debate and accountability. May they all succeed! I am also doing my part by making every effort to educate the 250 or so students I teach every semester as to the history, development and current issues surrounding the biotech field. This in itself is no easy task, as the waters are at best muddy. And in our gardens both on the home farm and at the college's farm, we use seeds from only the most carefully selected, at minimum organically certified and almost exclusively from small companies. We make every human effort to use simple, clean plant products. One of the additional questions I carry in all this is what does all this GMO stuff mean spiritually? In other words: what does this biotechnology really mean for the long-term soul and spiritual well-being of humanity? One of the things I have noticed, with all the chemical, genetic, and now biotech interventions, is that they are trying to the secrets of birth and life, maturity and death. Trying to figure them out. Said differently: there seems to be a searching, a kind of tapping in the dark around the great secrets of life, that is . How does life enter into the physical? How is it organized? Can we change it and if so what does this do? This far from being unsophisticated, is however, completely materialistic and mechanical. It is an attempt to something that essentially is not. There is a matrix, a physical-spiritual matrix that allows for the spiritual to enter into the physical. Where the two meet we have life. It is my view, that all this biotech tapping in the dark is designed for much more than merely monopolizing a given cultural plants' gene pool or making huge sums of money - I suspect it has also much to do with discovering the means by which to create life force. Interestingly, I think this has so very much to do with biodynamics. We too are working with the life forces. We too are trying to discover how to at least encourage and work with the life forces and the beings that weave them. Our means of course, are quite different. Just some thoughts Warm regards, Andrew From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 01:16:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA20645 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA16881; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:05:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from marine.sonic.net (marine.sonic.net [208.201.224.37]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA16691 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5216 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 06:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sub.sonic.net) (208.201.224.8) by marine.sonic.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 06:05:54 -0000 Received: from jalang (d208.pm6.sonic.net [208.201.229.208]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA04597 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:05:53 -0800 X-envelope-info: From: "James Langbecker" To: Subject: RE: No till versus Double Digging Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:04:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be6f72$de26eb40$d0e5c9d0@jalang.ppp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <002801be6f62$d433df40$f3f2facf@pavilion> Importance: Normal Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 > There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference > selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! > Parker This possibility really gives new meaning to the saying, "Make hay while the sun shines," doesn't it? James From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 05:00:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA25560 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA01583; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:50:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp3.hawaii.rr.com (smtp3.hawaii.rr.com [204.210.97.13]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA01494 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:48:55 -0500 (EST) Received: apparently from phyl.hawaii.rr.com - 24.94.65.129 by smtp3.hawaii.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:48:09 -1000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19691231140000.0104d614@pop-server> X-Sender: pdwyer@pop-server X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:51:36 -1000 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Phyl Dwyer Subject: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 March 15, 1999 - Hawaii Dear Friends, Does anyone have suggestions about how to salvage a rather funky situation for a special little heifer calf (almost eight weeks old, born 1/19/99) that was taken from its mother immediately after birth and stuffed in a cage in a bank of cages along with hundreds of other calves? She did not fair well with the "bucket" drink it or "the hell with you" approach of the dairy industry and is some what set back in her body weight and development. We've taken her to our farm and are using what seems to be our only option - a milk substitute powder. She was actually nearly born in a better situation. Her mother was naturally bred and pastured during her pregnancy, but was purchased into another dairy as part of a buy out that just happened to coincide with her birth. Any suggestions that might help Monique, "Little Mo", in her journey toward adulthood would be greatly appreciated, especially a source for more organic or BD milk substitutes, etc. Thanks so much, Phyl Dwyer - Proud, but desperate new Dad! pdwyer@hawaii.rr.com =================================================== Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address =================================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 06:19:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27085 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:19:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA05161; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:08:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA05083 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:07:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp333.cy-net.net [208.21.195.142]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA06990 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:09:36 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6F69.EF700DE0@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:00:39 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6F69.EF700DE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:58:13 -0600 Encoding: 21 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 Hi Phyl; Is Mo drinking at all? There are large calf bottles the 'industry' likes to use, hang them on the cage front and the calf tries to pretend this is Mother. Whole milk would be wonderful, goat even better in this instance, but barring that, you can raise her on the powder crap. Look for a brand that uses milk solids rather than the soya bases, and if she's scouring, dilute the formula a little with extra water. Add honey to it or even some syrup (karo) will give her a little extra energy. If you can handle her at all, try tucking the bottle under your arm so she feels a warm body next to her milk source. Another trick in the bucket method is to let her nurse your fingers, and gradually lower them into the milk. She is chasing the fingers and learns to slurp up the milk around them. This is somewhat tricky, because weaning her OFF fingers and onto the bucket of milk only can be tough. Keep the milk or milk sub slightly warmer than you think is right will often encourage a weak or stubborn calf to nurse, too. A lot of times the dairies just keep cold replacer in front of the calves and some calves will starve themselves before going for it. She's old enough to pick at fine, leafy hay, but I'd try to get her milk stomach on track before developing her rumen. (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 07:28:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA28390 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA11814; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:17:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA11745 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:16:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.55]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:01:00 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990316015544.007e9100@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:55:44 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging In-Reply-To: <002801be6f62$d433df40$f3f2facf@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 >My friend has an Italian >spader that I will check out this season, but what is everyone going to do >when the fossil fuel runs out. > There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference >selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! >Parker What about horse, oxen and ploughs? I especially like the spiral ploughs that are described in "living Energies". One of the ploughs was designed to replicate the action of the mole, it is shaped out of opposing spiral knife-edged flutes of silver-plated copper. The other plough is somewhat like a those spiral pasta in shape and has a series of these spirals that roll through the soil. Kindly, Conrad =-= =-= =-= =-= =-= =-= "giv 'er nails" -Saskatchewan slang From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 07:51:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA28973 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:51:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA14359; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:40:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA13992 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-13.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.188] (may be forged)) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id GAA08149 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:41:11 -0600 Message-ID: <001601be6fbb$38dfa160$bcf2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:40:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 Dear Ferdinand- Sorry you had such an awful experience with the burning. Ours here went well, we burned just after the last melting so it was slow and only burned top, not disturbing the mossy layer protecting the soil. From what I have seen around here, burning that initial time( I wouldn't do this again) has produced some incredibly fertile gardens. Unfortunately we probably did kill some beneficial bugs, but if you would have seen this burn, 4 hours for a quarter acre, I believe you would have felt little heat. Our most abundant beneficial bug here is the dragonfly who is morphing in the creek bed right now. We saved the worms. As far as the fossil fuels, I beg to differ on that one, but we shall see my friend. Parker -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 7:18 PM Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging >Dear Parker, >When I was a kid we burned, burned, burned in the garden. Baby Burn, was the >call..... My mother (there she is running again) came out all the time and >doused the fire. Stop, stop, stop was her war cry. Why? > >We were asked to make a study (1955!) and first, we had to smell the air. >Atrocious.Then, we had to look at the carbon build up. She told us it will >remain so for thousands of years and deplete the soil of nutrients. I had no >clue what that meant. Then, we looked at a half burned hedge hog which looked >dreadful and we had to kill it........(never a fire anymore, I thought). And she >pointed out that the small garden life (biobalance she said) woule be upset. We >looked at the water which was as gray as can be. Sticks did not burn properly >and could not be used any longer. Entire bug schools got roasted. The frogs that >made it out of the moss were blown up by the heat. It was a real lesson. And so, >she said: All goes onto the compost. Again 1955 and BD!! Nothing will be burned, >nothing. That's my story, my friend. > >And, one more thing. I don't think that fossil fuel will run out - we are going >to run out of other things first: (again Mama) God had a reason to keep that oil >far below us, it is the blood of the earth, she said. A lot of it. More than you >can ever think of. Blood is a very, very special juice and nobody drinks it >without getting punished (and bang, there went another moskito....). Regards >Ferdinand > >parker wrote: > >> Dear Alan- >> Thank-you so much for your two-cents, worth at least a dime. I think you are >> maybe right about the single dig. patience is a virtue. Those damn tools are >> enough to make anyone gung-ho. We burned yesterday and today and it seemed >> to be the perfect time, a nice little mossy mat protected the soil, and the >> deer trail and our own breaks made beautiful contours in the garden which I >> will leave for the paths. I will stick that big dog of a tool down in there >> a couple times to see what's what, but the potato fork should turn it, >> you're right it seems pretty loose underneath, crossing my fingers about the >> rocks. >> I was working at Coulee Springs Farm in Sparta WI last season and we >> were purely old fashion tractor and rototiller. I wanted to make some double >> dug beds, but my mentor pleaded no time. I was completely unimpressed with >> the soil structure there. It was a beginning BD farm, but a CSA for 6 years. >> Blevins sounds like a thoughtful, patient man. My friend has an Italian >> spader that I will check out this season, but what is everyone going to do >> when the fossil fuel runs out. >> There were a couple guys at the Upper Midwest Organic Conference >> selling a solar tractor. Very pricey, but right on! >> Parker >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Intergalactic Garage >> To: bdnow@envirolink.org >> Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 6:27 AM >> Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging >> >> >>I think it is quite right whoever pointed out that it will be different >> for >> >>different types of farmers. I worked for a heavy production oriented BD >> CSA >> >>farm last season and it became acheingly clear during the May madness that >> >>double-digging would leave the CSA members starving. >> > >> >Parker - was this a start-up CSA? Were these initial double-digs, or what >> >was happening at this BD CSA? (remind me: which BD CSA is this?) >> > >> >But maybe the solution >> >>is to dig parts of your garden each year and slowly phase out the tractor. >> > >> >Like a growing number of BD growers, Bruce Blevins is a champion of the >> >Italian machines. (NOT the Dutch machines) His motto: when you bring the >> >tractor into the garden your main plan has to be how to get the tractor >> >back out of the garden. I believe he plans for three spadings in a two >> >season period. And then it's U-bars from then on. >> > >> >>Like Hugh said after a bed has been double dug once, and turned a couple >> >>more times it becomes much easier to work with. Beds that I dug three >> years >> >>ago only need a quick once over with the fork before planting. This year >> my >> >>partner and I plan to dig a quarter acre in 4 days with two U-bars. >> > >> >IMHO, If you are planning initial digs with u-bars, either you don't really >> >need double- digging, ie your soil is very loose already, or you are going >> >to have a couple of broken u-bars or you just plain aint going to make it. >> >If time is of the essence, a single dig the first year, with good deep >> >rooting cover crops over the winter (and daikon whenever possible otherwise >> >:-), and a double dig the following spring, would seem like a good plan. >> > >> >The real Steve Moore, at Wilson College in Chambersburg PA, is a certified >> >John Jeavons instructor and takes a very s-l-o-w approach to that two foot >> >deep bed. He says that you should enjoy repeatedly discovering how much of >> >your double digging the plants do for you....over the seasons as you dig >> >and re-dig your bed. >> > >> >Your idea of 'volunteer beds' is rather exciting! >> > >> >Just my two-cents, >> > >> >Allan Balliett >> >BIODYNAMICS Now! >> >POB 3047 >> >Shepherdstown, WV >> >25443 >> >(304) 876-2373 >> >(815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding << Please note the new fax number!! >> >> > >> > >> >=================================================================== >> > >> >SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! >> > Know the latest releases!! >> > Get the BEST prices!! >> > >> > >> >TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L >> > You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the >> >message >> > >> >New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L >> > >> >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> ^^^ >> > >> >CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net >> > >> >Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! >> > >> >http://www.igg.com >> > >> >=================================================================== >> >How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html >> >How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html >> >=================================================================== >> >INTERGALACTIC GARAGE >> >Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles >> >110 West German Street >> >POB 3047 >> >Shepherdstown, WV 25443 >> >(304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX >> >Email = igg@igg.com >> >HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com >> > > >-- > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO >AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD > > FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 09:22:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01380 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:22:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA26090; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:11:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA25953 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:09:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-143.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.143]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA14995 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:12:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36EE6645.CF2@ipa.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:10:13 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Imants spader plow->Humus Management Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 BD-NOW Readers, The original thread was No till versus Double digging. In the ensuing discussion, mechanical spaders were mentioned as viable implements at the commercial scale. The following notes on spading implements and humus management is a post I put up on Sanet a couple of weeks ago, which I think you may find useful.... ESPECIALLY since BIODYNAMICS (like any worthwhile organic agriculture system) can also be understood as a HUMUS MANAGEMENT farming system. In other words, where the rubber meets the road, you had better take care of soil humus and all that is associated with that conceptually (deep humus) as well as pragmatically (soil microbes, worms, clay-humus crumb, soil foodweb) or you will end up with a hole in your soil bank, leaking valuable assets to service monthly bills at the front end while falling into a downward spiral of weakened soil health & plant immunity at the tail end. Food for Worms, Steve Diver ======================================================= Sanet Archives Re: Imants spade plow->Humus Management Steve Diver (steved@ncatark.uark.edu) Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:41:43 +0000 Victoria Mundy wrote: > Does anyone have information on the "Imants spade plow"? I've looked on >the databases and can't seem to come up with anything. Ditto a >simple Web search. > > Also, I'm trying to find contact information for a gentleman named >Carroll Montgomery, who is, or at least was in 1994, an agricultural >consultant with the Christian Agriculture Stewardship Institute> > > Any help would be appreciated. Thank you! > > Victoria Mundy Hi Victoria, Here are contacts the main spader dealers in the U.S. (I will gladly take contacts for other dealers if anybody has any): Autrusa Compost/Imants U.S.A. [George Leidig] P.O. Box 1133 Blue Bell, PA 19422 610-825-2973 autrusa@aol.com http://www.autrusa.com ----U.S. distributor for Imants Spaders, Sandberger Compost Turners, ----and Top Tex Compost Fleece Imants web site in The Netherlands http://www.imants.com/ Market Farm Implements [Ralph Moore] 257 Fawn Hollow Road Friedans, PA 15541 814-443-1931 ----Distributor for multiple brands of spaders and market ----garden/truck farming vegetable production implements Ferrari Tractor C.I.E. [Eugene Canales] PO Box 1045 Gridley, CA 95948 916-846-6401 916-846-0390 Fax ----U.S. distributor for Celli, Torteli, etc brands of European ----spaders. Ferrari Tractor C.I.E. -- like its counterpart Market ----Farm Implements on the East -- carries a wide assortment of ----small-farm equipment. Spaders available as attachments to ----walk-behind tractors or regular pull-type tractors. Here is the contact for Carroll Montgomery and Christian Agriculture Stewardship Institute (CASI): Christian Agriculture Stewardship Institute (CASI) Rt. 1, Box 364 Dexter, MO 63841 314-624-3709 314-624-4391 Fax CASI Publications: "God's Stewards... Caring for His Soil" "Alternatives for American Agriculture: CASI Soil Analysis Training" "Alternatives That Few Consider" "Why We Do Have Weeds and Grass" Soil management tidbits, a spader story: Fyi, at the 1995 Acres USA conference there was an interesting presentation by M.R. Foulks, who is the largest organic soybean grower in Virginia. He discussed his organic production system, and presented data on soil health improvements through the adaption of innovative soil management practices. The Foulks had attended some of the controlled microbial composting and humus management practices taught in seminars in Pennsylvania by the Siegfried Luebke family of Austria, hosted by George Liedig of Autrusa Compost. The CMC Compost-Humus Mgm't System emphasizes specialized compost turners, microbial inoculation, clay additions, frequent turning, daily monitoring for temperature and CO2, compost fleece to cover and protect the windrow, and qualitative testing for finished compost. Promotion of clay-humus crumb formation and a microbially-rich compost is a primary goal. Coupled with CMC compost, emphasis is placed at the farm level on a whole series of well-known organic agricultural practices that promote soil health, soil humus, soil biology, soil tilth, soil fertility etc. These include crop rotations, cover crops, green manures, microbially-inoculated composts, sod rotations mixed with crop rotations, grazing, urine, etc. "Humus management" encompasses these soil-enhancing organic farming practices along with the deep humus knowledge from the organic pioneeers: Efrenfried Pfeiffer, Sir Albert Howard, Lady Eve Balfour, as well as the microbial-humus scientists like Selman Waksman of Rutgers University and the Russian scientiests Kononova and Krasilnikov, among others. This is where the spader comes into the picture. In addition to the cover cropping and compost applications, choice of tillage implement can make a big difference in soil tilth and humus content. The Luebkes found that spading implements are superior as a humus management tool in vegetable production, especially in comaparison to tillers etc. At the Acres conference, M.R. Foulks presented the following data on humus values based on early adoption of large-sized spading implements for agronomic crop production in the U.S. The humus value is the sodium hydroxide colorimetric humus value test. Humus Value Humus Value Soil Depth Chisel Plow/Disc Spader 0-3" 14 20 3-6" 7 15 9-12" 7 18 The data shows that tillage implement alone can affect soil conditions that favor microbial populations, and their ability to humify soil organic matter from crop residues, cover crops, and composts. Steve Diver To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 09:51:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01842 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:51:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29730; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:41:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29369 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:38:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (modem-104.xcelco.on.ca [205.206.216.104]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA14867 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:39:53 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Re: agsyn.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:45:51 -0800 Message-ID: <01be6ab0$e017d840$76d8cecd@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 I agrree on hundred percent jean >Dear Allan, >My suggestion is to ignore Greg Willis as best you can, failing that send >him some loving compassion energy through the ethers. This will do more to >calm things down than to respond to his virulent litigious nature. Having >been on the very personal receiving end of his public vitriolic attacks >more than once last year, both publicly and privately I can assure you that >my lesson learned is that to engage with such energy is to engage an >equally invested part of oneself to maintain that energy. > >Disengage and stay centered in loving compassion rather than rousing the >spiritual warrior within. There are much more worthy and important battles >to be waged. > >Regards, >Jane Sherry > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:05:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02141 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00807; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:47:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00628 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:46:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d144.infoserve.net [199.175.157.144]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA27316 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:51:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003c01be6fbc$2a166c80$909dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:46:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 Dear Andrew and bdnowers, From one aspect, GMO's is a part of hygienic, eugenic and mechanical occultism. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Andrew Lorand To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 9:44 PM Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives >Dear Colleagues, > >During the last few years, like many of you, I have been following with >grave interest the of GMO's and related biotechnologies. With >great concern I have watched the commercialization of insufficiently tested >organisms enter the food stream. And I have been applauding the many efforts >underway to develop comprehensive testing, manditory labeling, public debate >and accountability. May they all succeed! I am also doing my part by making >every effort to educate the 250 or so students I teach every semester as to >the history, development and current issues surrounding the biotech field. >This in itself is no easy task, as the waters are at best muddy. And in our >gardens both on the home farm and at the college's farm, we use seeds from >only the most carefully selected, at minimum organically certified and >almost exclusively from small companies. We make every human effort to use >simple, clean plant products. > >One of the additional questions I carry in all this is what does all this >GMO stuff mean spiritually? In other words: what does this biotechnology > really mean for the long-term soul and spiritual well-being of >humanity? > >One of the things I have noticed, with all the chemical, genetic, and now >biotech interventions, is that they are trying to the secrets of >birth and life, maturity and death. Trying to figure them out. Said >differently: there seems to be a searching, a kind of tapping in the dark >around the great secrets of life, that is . How does life >enter into the physical? How is it organized? Can we change it and if so >what does this do? This far from being unsophisticated, is >however, completely materialistic and mechanical. It is an attempt to > something that essentially is not. > >There is a matrix, a physical-spiritual matrix that allows for the spiritual >to enter into the physical. Where the two meet we have life. It is my view, >that all this biotech tapping in the dark is designed for much more than >merely monopolizing a given cultural plants' gene pool or making huge sums >of money - I suspect it has also much to do with discovering the means by >which to create life force. > >Interestingly, I think this has so very much to do with biodynamics. We too >are working with the life forces. We too are trying to discover how to at >least encourage and work with the life forces and the beings that weave >them. Our means of course, are quite different. > >Just some thoughts > >Warm regards, >Andrew > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:07:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02213 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:07:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01824; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:53:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01576 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:52:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.26]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:55:40 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:54:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Lauren, the CSA bounces back--could you forward this message? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 To: mesa@hooked.net, csa-l@prairienet.org, csa-1@prairienet.org Please post the following on your list serve immediately. We wish to fill this position immediatley. ________ Farmer-Manager Position Laganza Farm is seeking an experienced farmer familiar with organic and preferably biodynamic methods to farm and further develop an existing 20-acre organic orchard and farm. Work can begin immediately. The farmer would also be involved in working with and servicing a CSA through networking in the nearby Temecula and Laguna Beach communities. Laganza farm, established in l989 and located in Aguanga in southern Riverside County, is CCOF and Demeter organic-certified; and in process of full demeter biodynamic certification. Some ll00 trees (more than 20 varieties of apple plus peach, pear, almond and cherry) and several hundred grape vines comprise the farm; a small vegetable garden with plans for expansion; and a one-acre field for vegetables with possibilities of expansion as well, and the orchard could also be expanded. The farm is a demonstration site and field station for the EOS Institute and Permaculture Institute of Southern California which conduct workshops in accordance with the implementation of their comprehensive permaculture plan which envisages an expanded vegetable and herb farming, and other projects. Two to four interns or apprendices are expected to work during the season. Housing is available on site, funds for food and living and for some farm investment are available through outside grants, but the livelihood of the farmer will ultimately be dependent on his/ her production and marketing through a CSA and existing wholesale and farmers markets. An application letter, resume of experience, and at least two references should be mailed to , Laganza Farm, c/o Eos Institute, Laguna Beach CA 92652. For more information call 949-497-2218 or 949-497-4401. We desire to fill this position immediately. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:07:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02222 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01899; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:53:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01577 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:52:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (modem-104.xcelco.on.ca [205.206.216.104]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA15819 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:53:25 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Practical Stock Doctor Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 21:40:44 -0800 Message-ID: <01be6ab8$8b3cd8e0$76d8cecd@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 I have in my possession a very old book entitled "THE PRACTICAL STOCK DOCTOR" 'The Farmers' Short Courses in Live Stock. Published as a text book by F.B. Dickerson Company copyrighted 1904,1908,1912,and 1920.It is absolutely phenomenal in it's scope and in addition uses almost exclusively herbal, mineral and or folk type remedies for all illness and diseases as well as a complete list of "symptoms" for common disorders. My dilemma is this; as the book is old I am hesitant to continue thumbing through it's pages for fear of its emminent disintegration. I will not use an updated version as it would be contaminated with antibiotic thinking. I wish to maintain the information without destrying the book. Any suggestions on how to save this information? Any body feeling up to the job? Holding an international treasure and not sure wht to do with it! Jean From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:11:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02320 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:11:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02821; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02407 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:56:47 -0500 (EST) From: MCDOUGO@aol.com Received: from MCDOUGO@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hDPOa08602 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:58:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:58:30 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: OFF:Richard Alan Miller Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 101 In a message dated 3/14/99 1:43:09 PM, you wrote: >Please let me know if you've taken a workshop or attended a lecture by >herbalist Richard Alan Miller. > >Thank you, > >-Allan Balliett >igg@igg.com Allan, he spoke at the first Acres Conference East, 12 - 14 years ago, in Carlisle PA. He talked about how farmers can grow herbs on a few acres, & make more money per acre than growing field crops. I really don't remember much more than that; it was a long time ago....Doug Britt. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:12:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02332 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:12:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02912; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02417 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:56:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp331.cy-net.net [208.21.195.140]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA25276 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:59:25 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6F8A.04750360@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:50:18 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6F8A.04750360@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: OFF: Texas Catalyst Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:49:15 -0600 Encoding: 19 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 I have been asked a few times to create a usegroup for Texans. Organic Gardening, where to buy seed and plants that do well in our many climates, anything a Texan might want to discuss. I know the cities have area discussion groups, but they fall short. I want folk to be able to access the group for stuff like, what can I plant that does well in Cen E Tex in the way of peaches? I discovered an organic garden center in a small town and want to share that with someone who might make use of it... things like this. Right now, it's only one little page, but I'm working on pg 2 for members to put up their own webpages, some photos, and other information they'd like to share. Also about to go for a domain name for flylo, so the site address will be easier to navigate to, too. If you know a Texan who might be remotely interested, please forward this message! Thanks, (martha) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/Texcat_home.html Sorry this is so off topic for this list, but if you're on OGL, Sanet, or SQFT you'll be seeing it there, too. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:22:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02613 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:22:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA04416; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:11:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04062 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.14]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:12:50 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:11:48 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: request for farm/garden info on Connecticut Message-ID: <795CC95216B0A91F8525673600535FD3.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 Is there anyone on the list who lives in Connecticut close to the NY border? If so, could you contact me privately? Thanks, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 10:28:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02737 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:28:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA05305; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04961 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:15:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.24]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:19:18 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:18:16 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Practical Stock Doctor Message-ID: <35FB5181EB74EE0C8525673600538FF4.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 <> Try and find an archival book binder in your area. Look under archival supplies in the yellow pages, or contact a good reputable art supply store or art school with bookmaking or drawing courses and someone there should be able to help steer you toward someone who can repair the book, possibly saving it. Failing that, there is always scanning, which unless the book is formatted in single columns, it is my experience that ocr scanners leave much to be desired! It may not be worth the effort, finding xeroxing more direct. In the meantime, buy an archival folder or box to store the book in until you do decide what to do. You can find those also at art supply stores or photography shops. Good luck! Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 11:45:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04851 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:45:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20600; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:34:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.frontiercoop.com (mail.frontiercoop.com [208.130.190.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19903 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:30:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com (ERICA.RENAUD [172.16.10.152]) by mail.frontiercoop.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-37991U200L2S100) with SMTP id AAA952 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:33:00 -0600 Date: 16 Mar 99 10:32:51 -0600 From: Erica Renaud Subject: soil testing To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" X-Mailer: QuickMail Pro 1.5.3b3 (Windows32) X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Message-ID: <19990316163300646.AAA952@erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id LAA19911 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 To bd subscribers, I wanted to know if anyone could provide me with some feedback concerning soil analysis. We, at the organic farm where I work, submitted three soil samples to three different soil testing laboratories. One of the laboratories where we sent a sample was Woodsend. I understand that this soils lab is highly supported by biodynamic growers and I wanted to know why? In addition, I wanted to know what makes their analysis most appropriate to biodynamic growers? It appears to me that their analysis is very thorough, perhaps more than all of the other laboratories we submitted samples to. I would appreciate any comments that would help me make a more thorough assessment of the results provided. Thank you, Erica Erica N.C. Renaud Organic Research Farm, Research Specialist Frontier Natural Products Co-op (319) 227 - 7996 ext.1373 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 13:43:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08615 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15309; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:32:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14741 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:29:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (modem-104.xcelco.on.ca [205.206.216.104]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA03894 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:30:50 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Re:OFF:our litttle garden Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:30:51 -0800 Message-ID: <01be6ff4$44ef7640$68d8cecd@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 we make our way through the fast, we need to think about the ways we tend God's garden through our everyday lives. Here's the crop we should sow: Plant three rows of squash: 1. Squash gossip 2. Squash criticism 3. Squash indifference Plant seven rows of peas: 1. Prayer 2. Promptness 3. Perseverance 4. Politeness 5. Preparedness 6. Purity 7. Patience Plant seven heads of lettuce: 1. Let us read the Holy Writings 2. Let us have boundless energy for the tasks ahead 3. Let us be obedient to God's Will for this day 4. Let us be truthful 5. Let us love one another 6. Let us be unselfish and loyal 7. Let us be faithful to duty And lastly, no garden is complete without turnips: 1. Turn up for Feast/church/mass etc. 2. Turn up for teaching/service activities 3. Turn up with a smile, even when things are difficult 4. Turn up with determination to do your best in God's service. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 14:50:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA10315 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA01303; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:39:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00166 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:34:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.174] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.174]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8P00F5I7JTY8@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:36:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:52:29 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: organic Soybean production In-reply-to: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 References: <36E96792.B80475D0@direct.ca> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA00184 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 >Hola Guillermo, > >I just want to pass along a possible source of information to you on >organic soybeans. I happen to know that Tom Reynolds of OCIA-VA is >involved with organic soybeans (I think he may grow as well as >export) and he is friendly (though he seemed a little strange to me >the first time I talked to him, he turned out to be quite open and >helpful with information) and he might be able to help you. His >phone at OCIA-Virginia is 757-851-9463. The last time he and I >talked he told me that the bumber soybean crop in Brazil had made the >soybean market pretty dismal in general these days (for suppliers, >that is!). > >Hasta luego, >Anita > > >Anita Graf >313-F Conner Hall >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >University of Georgia >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >(706) 542-1915 phone >(706) 542-0739 fax >agraf@agecon.uga.edu Hola Anita y Gracias por la información: Estoy en un grupo que esta evaluando la factibilidad de establecer una planta de procesamiento de soya (para alimentación humana) en la región. Doing a search in my books and in the internet, very little showed about organic soybean production, so that I will give Tom a ring. Many thanks I know that soybean and soymeal markets are very competitive, but what I am proposing to do, is to develop the plant organic suppliers within the region, instead of buying the US "cheaper" exports. At one time in my life I was a true believer in the comparative advantage argument, but after years of practical experience and seeing what o neoliberal policy has done to my country, I strongly support any local endevour before going global. I guess making things organic and serving a small market, is a good excuse not to have such good numbers in our financial plans. Where I live is an important rice region, so I was wondering if soya could be an associated crop, any ideas ? Regards and thanks again. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 15:11:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10784 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:11:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06855; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:01:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05741 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-018.midcoast.com [208.153.20.118]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA02403 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:00:14 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316144417.007e0720@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:44:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Re: etheric forces and teeth In-Reply-To: <36EC864F.D811C26A@direct.ca> References: <36EC0DDC.78F3@xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #640, March 4, 1999 on the topic of CHLORINE CHEMISTRY NEWS has interesting info about teeth. Its another answer to the question about why the teeth are not developing properly. These findings also cause me to think about animal health since exposure could be from airborne sources which settle down on all farms regardless of their management practices. John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA . . . "Last December, the federal Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) in Atlanta published the long-awaited final report, TOXICOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR CHLORINATED DIBENZO-P-DIOXINS.[4] The report had been circulating in draft form since 1991. In the final report, ATSDR establishes a Minimum Risk Level (MRL) for chronic (long-term) exposure to dioxin. An MRL is the amount of total dioxins (expressed as TEQs) that ATSDR believes people can take in day after day without suffering adverse health effects. ATSDR's official MRL for chronic (long-term) exposure to dioxin is one picogram of dioxin TEQ per kilogram of body weight per day.[4,pg.264] The new ATSDR report says that the average exposure of U.S. citizens is currently three to six times as high as this "safe" level.[4,pg.253] (A picogram is one trillionth of a gram, and there are 28 grams in one ounce.) Thus ATSDR gives us reason to wonder whether people are being harmed at current background levels of dioxin. Shortly after ATSDR released its final dioxin report, a new study was published showing that some people have defective teeth as a result of exposure to current background levels of dioxin.[5] The new study was conducted by dentists in Finland who have been studying dioxin for a decade. In the early 1980s, they noticed that many children had poorly developed molars -- discolored and soft. The normal hard enamel coating was partially missing, making the teeth subject to decay. The researchers hypothesized that the children were being exposed to some toxin early in life and this was interfering with normal growth and development of their teeth. Chinese children born to mothers who were accidentally exposed to high levels of dioxins showed tooth problems similar to those in Finnish children.[6] Taking this as a clue, the Finnish dentists began exposing rats to low levels of dioxin. They found that they could produce the same kind of tooth defects in the rats that had been seen in the Chinese and Finnish children.[7] Next they studied 102 Finnish children, ages 6 to 7, whose mother's breast milk had been tested for dioxins when the children were four weeks old. Seventeen of the 102 children (16.6%) had soft, mottled molars, with insufficient enamel to protect the teeth from decay. If a tooth fails to develop a proper enamel coating, the tooth is subject to decay for the rest of the person's life because enamel never develops later. The Finnish study found that children with the worst teeth were born to mothers with the highest levels of dioxin in their breast milk, thus establishing a dose-response relationship." The researchers examined PCBs separately from the other dioxins and dioxin-like compounds and they found that the PCBs did not contribute to the children's tooth problems. The Finnish researchers' new findings "are very exciting in a scientific sense--and very concerning in a public-health sense--because they demonstrate effects from [dioxin] exposures at background levels," says Linda Birnbaum, a well-known dioxin researcher with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).[8] According to ATSDR, many people in the U.S. and elsewhere have dioxin exposures that exceed the average. These include:[4,pgs.485-497] ** People who are exposed at work, or through environmental contamination, such as people living in Times Beach, Missouri; ** People living near incinerators that are burning municipal, medical or hazardous wastes, or people living downwind from coal-burning power plants; ** People living near any of the 110 Superfund sites where dioxins have been identified. (Superfund sites are chemically-contaminated places that the federal government has identified as dangerous to human health.) ** Sport fishers in the Great Lakes regions are very likely to have high exposure to dioxin, with Lake Huron the highest, Lake Michigan next highest, and Lake Erie the lowest. ** Currently 66 fish advisories have been issued by 21 states because of dioxin-contaminated fish. Three states -- New York, New Jersey, and Maine -- have statewide fish advisories in effect for all of their marine coastal waters, warning people to limit the amount of fish they eat because of dioxin contamination. ** Many indigenous people eat far more fish than the average. Under these circumstances, even low levels of dioxin contamination in fish can add up to a hazard. ** Subsistence farmers who consume their own farm-reared meat and dairy products may be highly exposed if they live downwind from an incinerator or a metal refinery or other source of dioxins. ** People eating food grown on soil treated with sewage sludge may be in danger. ATSDR says, "Exposure to [dioxin] from land application of municipal sewage sludge or paper mill sludge also can occur through the dietary pathway if people consume food grown or animals grazed on sludge-amended lands."[4,pg.497] And: "Most recently, MacLachlan... reported that the prolonged use of sewage sludge as a soil amendment on English farms under some conditions can lead to an increase in the concentrations of [dioxins] in both the soil and in cow's milk."[4,pg.497]" . . . From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 15:27:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11110 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:27:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA10582; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10237 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:15:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.26]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:19:23 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:18:10 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Millet Message-ID: <4B34B8460B62ABC485256736006F7BB4.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 Does anyone on the list have experience with growing millet? Thanks, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 15:35:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11298 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:35:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12732; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from virtu.sar.usf.edu (virtu.sar.usf.edu [131.247.152.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12446 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:24:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (jnoon@localhost) by virtu.sar.usf.edu (8.8.7/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA29082 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Jessica Noon (SAR)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <36EC956F.4BDD@ipa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 unsubcribe bdnow jnoon@virtu.sar.usf.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 15:59:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11951 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:59:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24448; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23948 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:11:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max4-2.stc.net [208.210.132.130]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20477 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231140000.0104d614@pop-server> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:53:28 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Any suggestions that might help Monique, "Little Mo", in her journey toward adulthood would be greatly appreciated, especially a source for more organic or BD milk substitutes, etc. Thanks so much, Phyl Dwyer - Proud, but desperate new Dad! pdwyer@hawaii.rr.com Phil, There can be several reasons a calf does not do well with the dairy industry regimen. Parasites, swallowing objects, etc. One of the worst of these is scours, which can result from the calf, which usually is fed only twice a day and thus gets very hungry, drinking too much milk at a feeding. The milk then overflows into the intestines before it is digested, thus setting up a ferment that scours the calf ultimately bringing about death by way of dehydration. The cure is to give frequent small feedings much as the calf would get were she on her mama in pasture. You can also offer the calf free choice water in a trough or anything except the feeding bucket for milk and free choice dry feed such as a calf starter formula. A calf of 8 weeks won't get by on pasture and hay, but it helps to have a bit of this too. Live yogurt can dry up the scours, and a pinch of BD barrel compound and BD 500 in the dry feed can help too. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 16:38:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13098 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA25731; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25143 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009E5190@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:26:39 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 16 Mar 99 16:26:36 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 16 Mar 99 16:26:10 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:26:03 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: organic Soybean production Priority: normal References: <128AA3E719B9@agecon.uga.edu> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <12A4F7A70BC0@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id QAA25152 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 Hola Guillermo y de nada, es un placer poder compartir info. I wish you luck in your endeavor. I think that creating local markets for local goods is the best kind of "development" work that can be done. I went through the same sort of thought evolution of the neolibral trade issue. When I worked in the DR, I met a bd farmer/entrepenuer named Cristof Meir (ever heard of him?) who does a fantastic job of making markets for the local farmers for the export of tropical fruits (bananas mostly). He has a big farm himself, but besides that, he has a packing and shipping operation. He also is able to do a great job of promoting organic at the same time. (I've come to believe that it's really the only viable way to promote organics, especially in the developing countries). When you ask if rice can be "associated" with soy, do you mean inter-cropped or rotationally cropped? I'm guessing that it would be good for rotation since isn't soya leguminous? There are plenty of organic rice producers. Lundgren Family Farms in California comes to mind. Well, best of luck to you on your project, y dime como sale la conversacion con Tom. Anita > > Hola Anita y Gracias por la información: > > Estoy en un grupo que esta evaluando la factibilidad de establecer una planta de procesamiento de soya (para alimentación humana) en la región. Doing a search in my books and in the internet, very l> > I know that soybean and soymeal markets are very competitive, but what I am proposing to do, is to develop the plant organic suppliers within the region, instead of buying the US "cheaper" exports. > > Where I live is an important rice region, so I was wondering if soya could be an associated crop, any ideas ? > > Regards and thanks again. > > Guillermo Romero I. > Comala, Colima, MEXICO > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 17:40:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15551 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:40:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24591; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24013 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:11:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max4-2.stc.net [208.210.132.130]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20502 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:47:36 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 >Hey all, > It's easy to get into black and white thinking about tilling, >but from my reading and experience, it seems that one method alone is >not adequate. The rodales organic gardening book talks about the >positive value of no-till for several years, but how eventually the >soil needs aeration. How about the idea of monitoring the soil and >tilling in OM after several years of no-till, when the soil could use >the additioon of more air. Observation and real decisioon-making >always beat the 'program' approach. That's why i monitor the BD list, >because of the astute observatioons! Bruce Ritchi Dear Bruce, all, I doubt very seriously if Rodale or any other organic no-till research used the BD Preps, let alone a Cosmic Pipe to broadcast them. I also doubt if a lawn mower was used to feed the finished growth to earthworms, let alone perceiving that earthworms could be the best of soil aeration devices. I have and can tell you my experiences. It was about 14 years ago on a nearly barren, hard packed clay hillside in Atlanta. The hillside, in addition to being hard packed infertile clay, was way to steep for tillage. It had to be done no-till or it would have simply washed down the street. The most important things about this experiment were taking a holistic view towards establishing a rich ecology, timing my sowing and mowing activities so as to maximize both plant growth and digestion, and above all getting the forces of the BD preps established and working well. Were I to do this again I'd incorporate Greg Willis' new BD prep, Horn Clay, (more on this when I lfind the time) but everything else I'd pretty much keep the same. Here's the story: Starting From (hard to) Scratch During the early part of l985 I worked on a bridge complex in Marietta, near Atlanta. My co-worker, Adama rented me her basement, and with it the yard. The back yard was shaded, but with a few spots where the soil was decent. The front yard had been bulldozed, was steep, with hard-packed red clay and hardly anything living, even an ant. It barely supported a few tufts of grass and some scraggly bushes. Starting the Project On the positive side, the lot was nearly an acre. The house sat on the hilltop a little back from the middle, and the front slope caught good sun. There was nearly two thirds of a ton of compost which I had started the previous year for Adama with a truckload of oak and poplar bark and some cow manure. Back when I first built the pile I used Dr. Pfeiffer's Quick Composting Compound, which contained the BD preps. But, for several months no earthworms appeared. I began to suspect none were in the area. Finally I brought a jar of earthworms to Atlanta from Blairsville, and that got the pile working. Adama and I worked forty to fifty hours a week, and our jobs were not easy. Monday morning I would pick her up and drive to work. We got back close to dark. We both fixed meals and she had her three-year-old son to take care of. Usually I washed the sawdust and concrete off and worked at my typewriter. I did not have much energy for the yard. Then it was up again at five for another day of bridge construction. My paycheck barely met the bills at the Institute. Fridays, after I dropped Adama off, I headed back to Blairsville, 125 miles away. So, there was little money or energy to put into the yard, but I wanted to see what I could do. My biggest advantage was having tools, seeds, plants and animals, as well as knowing where the cheapest materials were. The first thing I brought down was eighteen bales of old hay, cut late and full of seeds. Not good feed hay, but just the thing to mulch a barren hillside. Then I brought my mower to town, though scarcely anything needed mowing besides some vines near the borders and one lush patch near the water meter. Working in the evening just before dark, I stirred and sprayed a one acre unit of barrel compost; and sowed rye, wheat, crimson clover and sweet clove; into the scattered mulch of hay. The following week I applied BD 500, and a few weeks later, BD 50l. Encouraging Life Near the house where the slope was gentle, I marked off four little forty-inch-wide beds following the contour. I put the compost from the backyard pile on the lower two beds, and dusted the other two with wood ashes. The soil was hard to dig. I spent twelve hours and barely did an adequate job. Double digging was out of the question. Wanting to get more of an earthworm reservoir established in the front yard and put some life in the soil, I brought some wormy compost from Blairsville and scattered it around the scraggly azaleas up against the house. Then I mulched the bushes with bags of oak leaves off the street. Acorns in the leaves attracted a family of squirrels which worked the mulch over, and manured it. I scattered sunflower seeds on the hillside for the birds to eat, and shredded leaves with the lawnmower to start another compost pile. In the back yard I planted bamboo as well as peppermint, stinging nettle and comfrey patches. In the more promising spots I planted daffodils, irises and other flowers. I took two soil samples, one from the beds that got the compost, and one from the mulched hillside. The slope, with the grains and clovers, had a pH of 4.8 and low fertility in every category except potassium. The beds with the compost had a pH of 5.8 and somewhat more nutrients. For boron, which was deficient, I dusted a half box of borax on the front yard for a first application. The slope needed dolomitic lime and I had an old pile on the farm, so I scraped up a couple hundred pounds to scatter on the worst areas. The Doves A flock of doves found the wheat and rye seed under the mulch, eating it and manuring. I had to sow it down twice more before there was enough growing to make a stand. In the composted beds I planted potatoes, onions, garlic, spinach, lettuce and beets, and in the wood ashed beds I planted peas. This may sound like a lot of work, but I had my priorities in order and I averaged only thirty minutes or so after work three or four days a week. The biggest chore was digging the beds, which I did on a day when work was called off on the bridge. My only real error was building the new compost pile in the back yard where the previous one had been, requiring more wheelbarrowing. I had a couple stands of bees in Blairsville, and I brought one down for the garden. I also brought a couple of rabbit hutches, with rabbits, to provide manure for compost piles. The potatoes did well. They also bloomed, setting little green fruits full of seeds, which I collected to grow out the next year. The onions and lettuce were small, but they were perfectly healthy. The peas were truly superior with incredibly sweet pods. Tomatoes of every kind volunteered, along with a couple huge watermelons. The rye on the slope grew to nearly eighteen inches by May, and it made three or four seeds to the head. This was pitiful, but, in all fairness, it was a tenfold improvement over the sparse grass of the year before. The clover germinated and grew, but it was dwarfed, except in the most heavily limed areas. At the end of April the bridge job was finished and we were laid off. I visited only occasionally. In June I sowed buckwheat and soybeans on the slope, mowing off the rye. The doves ate almost all the soybeans and half the buckwheat. The remaining buckwheat grew to sixteen inches and, like the rye, made three or four grains per stalk. I mixed up another batch of soybeans, popcorn and mud, hoping to baffle the doves. They ate most of the popcorn, but the soybeans sprouted and grew. Along with the soybeans a volunteer crop of ragweed took over, getting a little nitrogen from the soybeans, which were inoculated with Rhizobium japonicum, for nitrogen fixation. The ragweed reached six feet tall and bloomed in September. Of course, I sprayed BD preps, applying them four times during this period. With the ragweeds so tall I could envision the progress made underground by their roots. The soil started to loosen up. I brought a truckload of quarry dust from Blairsville in September, and sowed rye, sweet clover, turnips and rape along with various odds and ends. I mowed everything flat, broadcasting the quarry dust on top to sift down through the mulch, and spraying everything down again with BD preps. Rain gave me a break, and the seeds sprouted before the doves could eat them. The former desert became the greenest yard on Avon street. The bee hive made four gallons of honey, and the fall collards at the top of the hill--where the peas had been--were tiny, but good. The turnips in the rye cover on the hillside got no bigger than my thumb. The fall celery and spinach were also a disappointment. But, it was not bad for a first-year garden in a former barren waste. At least everything survived and grew, even the herbs, daffodils, irises, and bamboo. On the Way In 1986 I visited Adama in March and planted potatoes, peas, onions, and collards, changing locations in the beds. Where previously it had taken twelve hours to dig the beds, now it took only two. The compost pile, however, was again inadequate. To remedy this I brought pickup loads of quarry dust, oak bark and commercial laying house manure from Blairsville, making a compost pile at the top of the garden. In April much of the slope was still acid and poor, so I brought nine hundred pounds of lime from Blairsville along with a couple bushels of compost. This evened out the growth of the rye and clover so that by the end of May there was a four foot high, waving field with full heads of grain. In early June I brought another bee colony down, dividing hives and taking the divisions back to Blairsville for two weeks so the colonies would stay separated. I mowed the rye down on top of a broadcast sowing of Laredo soybeans, a hay variety. I also scattered a couple handfuls of pumpkin seeds, and without any tillage I laid out rows of corn in the stubble across the contour of the slope. On top of the corn seed I mounded strips of compost an inch or two high and five or six inches wide. Everything came up. Of course, it helped that the rye mulch was a quarter of an inch deep. A soil test showed the pH of the slope was up to 5.2, and fertility levels had more than doubled in every department except potassium, which was already good. A Cosmic Pipe and Basic "H" I planted a homemade version of Galen Hieronymus' Cosmic Pipe, built on a design Paul Esch of Douglasville, Georgia gave me. This is a device used to broadcast environmental energies, and I used it to strengthen the effects of my biodynamic preparations. I also sprayed the whole front slope down with a dilute solution of Shaklee's Basic "H" to help flush toxins out of the soil since the slope faced a busy thoroughfare. Basic "H" reduces the surface tension of water, making it "wetter," and I believed this would also assure better access to minerals for the plants. But, it was dry, and the topsoil was still very thin. Adama had to water to get the growth started. The soybeans formed an ocean of vines. The corn and bean thinnings made good rabbit feed. The pumpkins grew huge vines, though their fruits did not mature before I sowed and mowed my rye, clover, turnip and rape mixture again in early September. The corn got six feet tall and made respectable ears, which the rabbits enjoyed. There was only one problem. The jungle of growth proved a haven for neighborhood rats, and two separate attempts to get male cats to make this home failed. This led to planting the winter cover crop and mowing the corn and soybeans in early September, as rats were not welcome members of the ecology. Success This time the no-till rye, clover, turnip and rape grew luxuriantly. The turnips were big as my fist and sweeter even than on the farm in Blairsville. The corn and soybean clippings made more than half an inch of mulch. Where the latest pea patch was, I planted celery, broccoli and cabbages, in order to rotate from soil building legumes to heavy feeding leaf crops. I built new hutches for the rabbits, which had matured and needed separation. The turnip and rape yields in the no-till rye on the slope were each nearly five bushels. The bees spent their efforts drawing out comb wax in their new boxes, and since it takes nine pounds of honey to make one pound of wax there was no honey crop. From the original backyard compost site Adama and I moved four volunteer peach trees out to the edge of the front slope near the bees. An especially good volunteer apple tree was left to become permanent at the end of one of the beds. A December soil test showed the pH was 6.5 and fertility was high across the board. Earthworms were everywhere, and my soil sampling tool was easy to push into the ground. The rich, green color of the rye showed the benefits of the preceding blanket of soybeans. The waving field of grain on the once barren slope was utterly no-till, as all I had done was plant, sow, mow, spray BD preps and spread a little compost, lime, granite and borax. I question if cultivation could have done as much. What two years previously had been the poorest yard on Avon street was now the most fertile. Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 17:51:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15914 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA09540; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:40:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09179 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:37:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28390 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:40:30 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36EE6645.CF2@ipa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:42:25 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 >BD-NOW Readers, > >The original thread was No till versus Double digging. >In the ensuing discussion, mechanical spaders were >mentioned as viable implements at the commercial scale. IMANTS does not make a spader, they only SAY they make a spader. What they sell is simply an overpriced 'rotivator.' It is very important for anyone looking for a spading machine to realize that the IMANTS product is simply that: a product. The Imants machine (a 'dutch spader') pales in comparison to an Italian spader. WE A/B'd these machines at the 1997 Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference. We purchased the Tortella (Italian) spader as a result. Once again: Italian spaders 'spade' the soil but the Imants machine churns it. (Not only that, it incorporates organic materials too deeply in the soil. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:00:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16283 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:00:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10775; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:49:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10725 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30691; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:33 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:50:48 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies "The impact of GMO's on our future" Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 Dear Ferdinand, I certainly agree that sitting back, sheeping it out, while GMO's overrun us, is an inadequate response. So, one can collect, grow and inspire biodiversity. It is not only GMO's that are eliminating species, it is monoculture agriculture, alienistic racism, athiestic materialism. Kinship gardening is a good response. Learning the structure and quality of the fabric of life by growing gardens that example diversity and use the depth of the gene pool is a good response. Also, eating organic food, growing our own food, developing new and better crop rotations, microbiological fertilization regimes, these all contribute to a positive and ongoing future. Then also, have you taken an F1 tomato or F1 onion and established a OP line? Try comparing OP's, hierlooms and hybrids; gives direct cognition of some of the issues. Growing some your loval endangered and disappering wild species is also a good response. Hands on, head in, mind up and heart open. Best of growing, Al Kapuler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:03:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16342 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:03:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11318; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10761 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30712; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:42 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:52:33 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Al Kapuler Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 Martha, I went to Belize to see Rosita Arvigo and get some help in using natural herbal means to reverse lymphatic cancer which has been bothering me for a decade and has gotten somewhat worse in the past two years. I began learning the local flora, took many botanical photos, had some clean water, clean air, no phones, faxes or computers and much less stress. I began growing seeds organically in 1973 and continue to this day and for the rest of my life. Best to you Al Kapuler Research Director for Seeds of Change From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:04:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16352 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:04:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11247; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:52:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10737 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:49:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30700; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:37 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:52 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies: Hey Steven! Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 Dear Steven, Rob J. has been pseudo about organics from the outset. He also likes F1's rather than stimulating the development of OP lines from F1's so that we can assuredly save our own seeds and participate in the essential work of conservation of diversity. Same about hierlooms, only in his catalog from economic, marketplace driven, not a heartfelt response that varieties that have been grown, tested and cherished for generations have established themselves as important for humanity. It takes the committment and courage of people like Howard Shapiro and Stephen Badger to fund a growers network of certified organic growers to provide the seeds for Seeds of Change to make large amounts of organic seeds available. They are more expensive, it takes more handwork and it is easy to criticize until you grow some seeds yourself, work to get them clean and highly fertile before recognizing that it is a devotion to life, a profession like healing, a love of humanity and not an economic, bottom line driven endeavor. Johnny has been buying cheap, chemically grown seeds and foisting them on the organic public as if he is doing us a favor. Peace is growing, Best to you Al Kapuler. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:04:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16363 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:04:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11416; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:52:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10781 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-24.intrepid.net [209.190.163.24]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30723; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:51:46 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:53:25 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 Dear Andrew, Keep up the good work, flow of ideas and devotion to spiritual integration. Consider adding kinship gardening to your repetoire of activities.Education about the fabric of diversity is essential for biodynamics and essential for healthy gardens. Control, power, ego, ignorance are all in the mix of GE. Peace and love Al Kapuler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:12:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16598 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:12:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA12758; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:01:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12584 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:00:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.164] ("port 2049"@[148.233.186.164]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8P004JTJTTQL@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:02:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:59:27 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: Practical Stock Doctor In-reply-to: <01be6ab8$8b3cd8e0$76d8cecd@haggerty> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id SAA12586 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 119 >I have in my possession a very old book entitled "THE PRACTICAL STOCK >DOCTOR" 'The Farmers' Short Courses in Live Stock. Published as a text book >by F.B. Dickerson Company copyrighted 1904,1908,1912,and 1920.It is >absolutely phenomenal in it's scope and in addition uses almost exclusively >herbal, mineral and or folk type remedies for all illness and diseases as >well as a complete list of "symptoms" for common disorders. >My dilemma is this; as the book is old I am hesitant to continue thumbing >through it's pages for fear of its emminent disintegration. I will not use >an updated version as it would be contaminated with antibiotic thinking. I >wish to maintain the information without destrying the book. Any suggestions >on how to save this information? Any body feeling up to the job? > >Holding an international treasure and not sure wht to do with it! >Jean Dear Jean: Scan it or xerox it, and publish the book on the net. If posible ask for permission to do it, otherwise buy the rights for a few copies, that I am sure you will have no trouble selling among us. As a matter of fact I also have a similar treasure, I am the great grandson of the founder of the first agriculture school in Mexico, which now is the Universidad Agrícola de Chapingo, The name of my great grandparent was Manuel De Ibarrola Berruecos and in 1903 he published a series of manuals, the one I have is a Manual for the Milking Cow's Breeder (Manual del Criador de Vacas Lecheras) which among other things ( a 444 pages book) has a section on diseases, causes, symptoms, treatment etc.,all of it of course, antibiotic free in 1903. This series of books were written with the support of the Government( Secretaria de Fomento), but that administrative branch no longer exists, so althought we do not have the legal rights to reproduce the documents, we as a family, feel a need to preserve and propagate the materials whenever there is a need to do so. We have a few well preserved originals of this manuals, but what we use and distribute are good quality photocopies of the books. Probably you could do the same with your treasure. Regards. (I will gladly send a copy of this book to whomever (I would only charge the copying and the shipping), but let me warn you that the language is not very easy to understand to even a modern spanish speaking person, and that there are sections of the book that were only valid in the space-time situation where-when it was written (ie. accounting, or Fairs and expositions, etc). Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:42:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17585 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA17993; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:31:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17776 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:30:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp306.cy-net.net [208.21.195.115]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29372 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:33:17 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6FD1.AE642800@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:23:17 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6FD1.AE642800@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Practical Stock Doctor Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:16:58 -0600 Encoding: 19 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 There are a number of book sellers who deal mostly in old or out of print books. I know Colleen's in Houston Texas will do a find for $5, and this includes both domestic and international book dealers who list. (And most of them do.) One might start with one of those and the need to handle fragile books may not be so great if more than one copy exists. Xeroxing the old bookstock becomes tricky because the pages are brittle on edges, and can only tolerate a certain amount of page-turning. A company who does microfilm work usually has what they call a planetary camera and may could reproduce the pages of large books without excessive handling. Someone off this very list sent me a wonderful book search online: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search so far, every book I've thought about or could recall has been located through this search engine! Good luck. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 18:57:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17875 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:57:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA20246; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:46:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA20139 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:46:10 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA09757 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:13 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-59.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.59) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009642; Tue Mar 16 17:47:42 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <1999316184931341@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 >>Interestingly, I think this has so very much to do with biodynamics. We too >>are working with the life forces. We too are trying to discover how to at >>least encourage and work with the life forces and the beings that weave >>them. Our means of course, are quite different. >> I don't really consider splicing nordic flounder genes into strawberries and tomatoes to make them frost resistant as "working WITH the life forces." The thing I don't here anyone talking about is the fact that this is a totally unnecessary, and expensive technology. It is market driven, not of natural/divine inspiration. Monsanto says with Roundup ready soybeans, farmers earn more because they use less pesticide thereby reducing costs. Bull****! The reason farmers don't earn their worth is because they are being manuiplated by a profit-driven economy which is managed by people with limited or no connection to agriculture, and certainly not in any spiritual sense. When will we (as a society) reclaim our real power by cutting the commodity brokers (an elevated term for "gambler"), chemical/bio- tech companies, politicians, out of the picture? It's like the whole dilemma with the organic standards. They're in a mess because they sought a bureaucratic solution to an economic problem that is founded on a faulty, anti-nature economy. If we play their game, we're always going to lose. We have to set the terms. Paco aka John E. Verin "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 19:31:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18768 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:31:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25709; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:20:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25468 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:19:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18497 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 17:21:47 -0700 Received: from ts2-32.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.183) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 17:21:47 -0700 Message-ID: <36EEF5A7.3A18F28F@cyberhighway.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:22:00 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Salmon River Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 Allan, Could you backtrack a bit for those of us unfamiliar with this subject? I think I understand what the basic principle is here, but I don't understand WHY a person wants to spade clumps instead of rototilling to aerate? Is it to protect the bio-organisms in the soil? Is it to prevent erosion, or soil blowaway? Does a spader create something more like a raised bed? (I did look at the site you posted last Christmas on the Tortella spader, and wish you could post that URL again.) Two of us are doing all the work by hand here this spring, and though I'm dreading the strain on my back, I won't miss the noise of the tiller. But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, "What if someone wanted to start up a large market garden to feed 50 local families?" It's all hard clay around here, and you would need a plow. Is that more like tilling or spading? Thanks, Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > >BD-NOW Readers, > > > >The original thread was No till versus Double digging. > >In the ensuing discussion, mechanical spaders were > >mentioned as viable implements at the commercial scale. > > IMANTS does not make a spader, they only SAY they make a spader. What they > sell is simply an overpriced 'rotivator.' It is very important for anyone > looking for a spading machine to realize that the IMANTS product is simply > that: a product. The Imants machine (a 'dutch spader') pales in comparison > to an Italian spader. WE A/B'd these machines at the 1997 Mid-Atlantic > Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference. We purchased the Tortella > (Italian) spader as a result. Once again: Italian spaders 'spade' the soil > but the Imants machine churns it. (Not only that, it incorporates organic > materials too deeply in the soil. > > -Allan Balliett > igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 19:40:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18972 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:40:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA27398; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:29:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27306 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:28:49 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA12409 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:30:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:30:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-59.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.59) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma012256; Tue Mar 16 18:29:13 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <19993161931135705@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies "The impact of GMO's on our future" X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 On 03/16/99 17:50:48 you wrote: > >Dear Ferdinand, > I certainly agree that sitting back, sheeping it out, while GMO's >overrun us, is an inadequate response. > So, one can collect, grow and inspire biodiversity. It is not only >GMO's that are eliminating species, it is monoculture agriculture, >alienistic racism, athiestic materialism. > Best of growing, > Al Kapuler > > > GMOs are, proven in many European tests (but never found in Monsanto et al propaganda), contorting related species in the wild, so in that sense, yes they are eliminating species. Paco aka John E. Verin "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 20:19:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19909 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:19:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA03957; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:07:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03238 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:03:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp306.cy-net.net [208.21.195.115]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA08447 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:06:18 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6FDE.AD88D040@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:56:19 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6FDE.AD88D040@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: OFF topic RE: Al Kapuler Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:56:09 -0600 Encoding: 17 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 Pardon my lapse, but Al, do you have a website, and are you going to post the photos you took in Belize? I'm trying to wrack my brain to remember some folk you may recall, but it was 15+ years ago that I lived there. (Lived outside Orange Walk, not exactly pristine area even then.) Lived on Caye Caulker during one or two hurricanes, when I realized my life in the coconut palms was fast ending if one more came thru the thatch! Spent extensive time up 26 mile Lagoon near Lamanii ruins, (Indian Church area). Is the Faun Vaundia still operating the Carribean? (We helped launch her initially.) Better quit, getting 'homesick'. Hope your native cures were successful. Rosita Arvigo rings a bell but I can't remember where I heard of her. I have a Bze shaman source book, and I think she's quoted extensively in it, but I don't know which area she was from. An Arvigo (older gent) did help me get over malaria using native herbs. (Martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 20:29:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA20377 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:29:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA05258; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04814 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:11:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.164] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.164]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8P00I4ZLS6CR@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:43:49 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:49:06 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: uai@stc.net Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id UAA04819 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 > I brought a truckload of quarry dust from Blairsville in September, >and sowed rye, sweet clover, turnips and rape along with various odds and >ends. I mowed everything flat, broadcasting the quarry dust on top to sift >down through the mulch, and spraying everything down again with BD preps. >Rain gave me a break, and the seeds sprouted before the doves could eat >them. The former desert became the greenest yard on Avon street. > The bee hive made four gallons of honey, and the fall collards at >the top of the hill--where the peas had been--were tiny, but good. The >turnips in the rye cover on the hillside got no bigger than my thumb. The >fall celery and spinach were also a disappointment. But, it was not bad for >a first-year garden in a former barren waste. At least everything survived >and grew, even the herbs, daffodils, irises, and bamboo. > Hi Hugh: I remembered this great story from your book. That was the reason why I addressed a question to you last week about basalt dust (I assume it is the same as quarry dust, is'nt it ?). The question in question was : What to look for in a lab test or other exam to evaluate the "quality" of the dust for ag purposes ?. What is it the function of the basalt dust in BD-Agriculture, and why is it diferent (other than by particle size or surface area) from using construction sand. Another person in the list also wanted to know if there is a difference between quarry dusts from different areas. (near the ocean-higher Si content) There have been some reply from the list saying to measure CO2 production in the resulting growing areas and measuring (I do not know what or how) the "paramagnetic" variables of the dust. Could you please expand on the benefits and functions of the basalt dust within a BD and a chemical perspective. Many Thanks for your help. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 20:53:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA20681 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:53:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA09955; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:42:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09673 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:40:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.11]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:44:48 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:43:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 <> <> Eloquent thoughts. Western culture has been motivated by a profit driven economy for many centuries. Those in power have tried to force peoples' minds to accept anti life propaganda for centuries. The church spread the fear of witchcraft a long time ago in order to usurp the power of healing herbs and healthful foods grown in community gardens in order to line their own pockets and exercise their fear and mistrust of people helping one another for centuries. Community gardens today are being taken over by greedy hateful local governments all the while insisting it is the poor folks they are trying to help in the name of low income housing. GE is just the high tech example of controlling people through fear, promotion of greed above all else and divisive tactics through the promises of a better town, country or world. People have become so accustomed to the idea of cheap food, and so many have no idea what 'real' food is, that to promise a better world, with the vision of feeding the starving masses through better science (technology) enables people to keep their blinders on, retreat to the comfort zone of ignorance, and not do the difficult work of really connecting with their neighbors, their community, their earth and the world community in any spiritual or holistic way. As long as someone else is taking care of it, people can be led by laziness to buy or promote anything the market desires, regardless of any understanding that they in turn are helping to destroy the diverse ecosystem. <> In the face of ever increasing wealth being spent to build prisons and less and less to educate people, let alone build gardens, it is up to us indeed to gather with our neighbors and support diversity, community gardens, csa's and any other life promoting new paradigms that evolve over the next decade. As long as people continue to be "alienated" from their food source, from a sense of healing, from a real sense of purpose in life, GE will continue to dazzle the minds and hearts of men and women who do not have a different example of what life should be. Al Kapular, using the word "cherished", when speaking about heirloom seeds, really rang a bell for me. If more people felt cherished in this life by someone or some activity or if they themselves could work in a garden, in the earth with the elements feeding their souls, they would in turn cherish life and want to support it. But education is key. That and eating real food. If only thousands and thousands of small market gardens could be set in up the cities all over the world, where people are really alienated from food, perhaps more and more people would fight for life! If more and more biodynamic farms encroached upon monoculture megalithic corporate farms, perhaps more and more people would fight for life! If more people ate food with life force in it, they would feel less and less the need to keep supporting the pharmaceutical industrial complex by always looking for a quick fix. Ever the optimist, I do believe along with this horrendous monster that is GE, comes the low tech loving impulse of people who want more and more, to grow their own food. Thank you all for your inspiring dialogue and especially to Al Kapular for joining us inspiring more and more people in this community to make their voices heard. And thanks to Allan for his persistant efforts, to get the word out, to get the food out, to nourish and heal us! Respectfully, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 22:59:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA22866 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:59:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA01780; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01578 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:46:37 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA06915 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:48:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:48:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-36.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.36) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006892; Tue Mar 16 21:48:09 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199931622495936334@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 >Eloquent thoughts. Western culture has been motivated by a profit driven >economy for many centuries. Those in power have tried to force peoples' >minds to accept anti life propaganda for centuries. The church spread the >fear of witchcraft a long time ago in order to usurp the power of healing >herbs and healthful foods grown in community gardens in order to line their >own pockets and exercise their fear and mistrust of people helping one >another for centuries. Community gardens today are being taken over by >greedy hateful local governments all the while insisting it is the poor >folks they are trying to help in the name of low income housing. > Celebrating St. Patrick's day?.... Said witches, gardeners etc. were pagans, and it was Saint Patrick who drove paganism (snakes) from Ireland....a thought to have as you raise a toast tomorrow. Goddess-based pagans worshiped the snake as essential to life on Earth. Somehow the Bible authors (King James?) made the snake a nasty enemy, and women the fault of all our suffering. Gee, and here we are on a planet we've rendered ill. Hmmm. I truely feel our culture has a wounded psyche, feeling shame and rage by "God" rejecting us from "Eden." So, our angry infantile reaction is to lash out at God by trashing "His" Eden. Disclaimer... pobody's nerfect, pagans included, me included, and history is past and my comment has no anti-Irish or Christian intentions at all. Or anti-anyone for that matter. I'm just trying to figure out why we're killing ourselves and calling it progress. In faith for the return of Earth's vibrant health, Paco aka John E. Verin "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:04:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA22947 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA02827; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:53:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02687 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:52:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-162.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.162]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA10595 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:54:26 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36EF26E3.3000@ipa.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:52:03 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 128 Intergalactic Garage wrote: > IMANTS does not make a spader, they only SAY they make a spader. What they > sell is simply an overpriced 'rotivator.'... etc.. Allan, The Humus Value data presented at the 1995 Acres USA conference by M.R. Foulds were indicators of soil humus levels as a result of type of implement used in the field trials. The spading implement that was compared against a Chisel Plow/Discing sequence was, in fact, the Imants Spading implement; i.e., the Dutch brand. Perhaps it would be more interesting to BD-Now readers to gain a better understanding of the above-mentioned Humus Value test: what is this test, what does it tell you, how is it different from the percent soil organic matter test, how does it fit into a humus management picture, and why would should a farmer place importance on the influence of tillage implement on soil humus levels. Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:13:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23095 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:13:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA04310; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03897 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:59:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.10]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:03:50 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:02:33 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Message-ID: <89FC55A4DD7CB3918525673700160CD2.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 129 <> Not trying to assign blame, just trying to take responsibility and celebrate Life! Best Regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:24:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23325 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:24:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA06544; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:14:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05967 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:11:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-23.intrepid.net [209.190.163.23]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA01523 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:14:26 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4B34B8460B62ABC485256736006F7BB4.0000000000000000@webcity> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:04:37 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Millet Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 >Does anyone on the list have experience with growing millet? > >Thanks, >Jane Jane, I believe that Christian Elwell grows some of the Japanese millets. He's off the list temporarily. -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:31:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23529 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:31:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA07577; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:20:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07118 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:17:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.211.141.210] (wt-d6-210.wt.net [208.211.141.210]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA06300; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:21:48 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE6F8A.04750360@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:54:23 -0600 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Andy R Subject: Re: OFF: Texas Catalyst Cc: Martha Wells Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 Matha, I was going to send this to you individually but I thought there might be some others in Tx on this group and therefore posted it there also. I am the chairman of the Seed Comittee at Urban Harvest in Houston where we provide seeds, most all organic and non-GE, heirlooms, but some hybrids for our members in the Houston area. I think we would have some very common overlap and would be happy to be a part of your site or with a link. We currently have some folks redoing our WEB site because right now it sucks. Hopefully that will be done in 2-3 months, we'll see. Also I know of some sources for plants etc..., I imagine you are aware of the Tx Seed Saving Group?? Andy >I have been asked a few times to create a usegroup for Texans. Organic >Gardening, where to buy seed and plants that do well in our many climates, >anything a Texan might want to discuss. I know the cities have area >discussion groups, but they fall short. I want folk to be able to access >the group for stuff like, what can I plant that does well in Cen E Tex in >the way of peaches? >I discovered an organic garden center in a small town and want to share >that with someone who might make use of it... things like this. >Right now, it's only one little page, but I'm working on pg 2 for members >to put up their own webpages, some photos, and other information they'd >like to share. Also about to go for a domain name for flylo, so the site >address will be easier to navigate to, too. > If you know a Texan who might be remotely interested, please forward this >message! Thanks, (martha) >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/Texcat_home.html > >Sorry this is so off topic for this list, but if you're on OGL, Sanet, or >SQFT you'll be seeing it there, too. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:31:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23540 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:31:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA07626; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07139 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:17:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.211.141.210] (wt-d6-210.wt.net [208.211.141.210]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA06315; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:21:54 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:58:01 -0600 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Andy R Subject: Re: OFF:Richard Alan Miller Cc: MCDOUGO@aol.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 He just spoke at the latest Acres Conference in Dec in Minneapolis and taught a workshop there. You can buy the tape from Acres USA. I have listened to the tape because I went to a diffent talk but he is very knowledgable and opionated which is not necessarily bad. Andy >In a message dated 3/14/99 1:43:09 PM, you wrote: > >>Please let me know if you've taken a workshop or attended a lecture by >>herbalist Richard Alan Miller. >> >>Thank you, >> >>-Allan Balliett >>igg@igg.com > >Allan, he spoke at the first Acres Conference East, 12 - 14 years ago, in >Carlisle PA. He talked about how farmers can grow herbs on a few acres, & >make more money per acre than growing field crops. I really don't remember >much more than that; it was a long time ago....Doug Britt. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 16 23:35:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23641 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA08049; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:23:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07893 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.24] (pm3shep1-163-23.intrepid.net [209.190.163.23]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03208 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:25:04 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36EF26E3.3000@ipa.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:27:07 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 >Intergalactic Garage wrote: >> IMANTS does not make a spader, they only SAY they make a spader. What they >> sell is simply an overpriced 'rotivator.'... etc.. > >Allan, > >The Humus Value data presented at the 1995 Acres USA conference >by M.R. Foulds were indicators of soil humus levels as a result of >type of implement used in the field trials. The spading implement >that was compared against a Chisel Plow/Discing sequence was, >in fact, the Imants Spading implement; i.e., the Dutch brand. > >Perhaps it would be more interesting to BD-Now readers to gain >a better understanding of the above-mentioned Humus Value test: >what is this test, what does it tell you, how is it different >from the percent soil organic matter test, how does it fit into >a humus management picture, and why would should a farmer place >importance on the influence of tillage implement on soil humus >levels. > >Steve Diver I've got no problem with this, Steve, have at it. I don't see any reason why the two paragraphs above would conflict with caveat, of course. Spader shoppers: Eugene Canales "Spader Clinic," which appeared in BIODYNAMICS last year and has been on the www until recently, is your best introduction on what to look for in a machine which will 'double-dig' for you and how to coax the best performance out of the machine you do buy. As Bruce B. for a backissue copy of BIODYNAMICS or call Eugene Canales at the number listed in Steve's original post. Thanks -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 00:02:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA24100 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:02:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA13401; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:50:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13042 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] ([208.210.143.20]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA05447 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:51:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:38:52 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 > >Hi Hugh: > >I remembered this great story from your book. That was the reason why I >addressed a question to you last week about basalt dust (I assume it is >the same as quarry dust, is'nt it ?). The question in question was : >What to look for in a lab test or other exam to evaluate the "quality" of >the dust for ag purposes ?. What is it the function of the basalt dust in >BD-Agriculture, and why is it diferent (other than by particle size or >surface area) from using construction sand. Another person in the list >also wanted to know if there is a difference between quarry dusts from >different areas. (near the ocean-higher Si content) > >There have been some reply from the list saying to measure CO2 production >in the resulting growing areas and measuring (I do not know what or how) >the "paramagnetic" variables of the dust. > >Could you please expand on the benefits and functions of the basalt dust >within a BD and a chemical perspective. > >Many Thanks for your help. > >Guillermo Romero I. >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > Guillermo, My quarry dust was granite and by exhaustive analysis showed over 4% potassium and 0.72% phosphorous. I don't remember the calcium or magnesium content but it was NOT high--I believe under 1% for each. Silicon (atomic weight 28) was somewhere in the high 20s as I recall, which would make the silica content (silicon dioxide, molecular weight 60) up above 50%. I believe there was some nitrogen content since the granite was blasted out of the mountain with ammonium nitrate mixed with diesel oil. The best test as far as I'm concerned is wherever I applied it (maybe half a centimeter or so thick) I got a good algal bloom (given our high rainfall). I think there is another phenomenon associated with it that might be lost in the quest for chemical analysis and looking at everything with a microscope. Earthworms loved this stuff. The chemical folks may tell you it is best if rock powders are ground fine enough to pass a 60 or even 80 mesh screen. They'll say their tests show that's what it takes to get good release of mineral nutrients. I guess they haven't many earthworms in their test plots. Consider this. Earthworms are like chickens and have gizzards instead of teeth. They like those sharp, siliceous, gritty pieces to grind their food (the lawnmower clippings in this case) with. The chemists may tell you those sandy bits don't contain much in the way of nutrients anyway. But they're hard. I can hear the chemists scoff now, thinking what is the value of hardness? This quarry was noted for having hard stone, and like I say the earthworms loved it. They came up and scarffed it off the surface at night, gathered their lawnmower clippings, and presumably spend their days underground feasting to their hearts' content. That's what opened up the soil on that hillside and let in the nitrogen, oxygen and water. You know, those things nature gives us free if we have sense enough to go for it. What a key thing! Earthworms and hard, sharp bits of quartz with supposedly very low nutrient content. I doubt it could have been done with finer quarry dust or without the earthworms. Nor could the whole thing have occurred without BD preps to bring in the life forces. And I might add, since BD emphasizes the importance of looking at larger scale phenomena such as the overall growth and digestive activity and gives less emphasis to chemical analysis, it was the BD way of looking at things that achieved these results. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 06:47:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27942 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:47:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA26586; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA26394 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:33:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp215.cy-net.net [208.21.195.24]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA28568 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:36:32 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7036.DB2480A0@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:27:32 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7036.DB2480A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: OFF: Texas Catalyst Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:00:12 -0600 Encoding: 33 TEXT, 84 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 Thanks Andy; I wasn't aware of your org, but I am a member of the Tx Seed Exchange. Jack Rowe, (owner, director) is also a member of our new group as well. Pass the info along, and keep in mind that this is still very early and not a lot of traffic on-list yet. A few E Tex members who might could use the information your own group can provide, so links, or membership would be useful both ways. martha -----Original Message----- From: Andy R [SMTP:lamu@wt.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 11:54 AM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: Martha Wells Subject: Re: OFF: Texas Catalyst Matha, I was going to send this to you individually but I thought there might be some others in Tx on this group and therefore posted it there also. I am the chairman of the Seed Comittee at Urban Harvest in Houston where we provide seeds, most all organic and non-GE, heirlooms, but some hybrids for our members in the Houston area. I think we would have some very common overlap and would be happy to be a part of your site or with a link. We currently have some folks redoing our WEB site because right now it sucks. Hopefully that will be done in 2-3 months, we'll see. Also I know of some sources for plants etc..., I imagine you are aware of the Tx Seed Saving Group?? Andy begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(B +`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYO&%S($-A=&%L>7-T`) '`06 `P`.````SP<#`!$`!0````P``P#^``$@ M@ ,`#@```,\'`P`1``0`.0`D``,`3@$!"8 !`"$````R-T,R,D8P1#(U1$-$ M,C$Q0C$Q,3 P0S!&,#(Y-C@R,0#J!@$#D 8`H L``"$````+``(``0````L` M(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`+@```````P`V``````! `#D`0,_. M5&5PO@$>`' ``0```!@```!213H@3T9&.B!497AA`!X,`0````4```!3 M3510`````!X`'PP!````$@```&9L>6QO0'1X8WEB97(N8V]M`````P`&$,/6 M+4L#``<0[0,``!X`"! !````90```%1(04Y+4T%.1%D[25=!4TY405=!4D5/ M1EE/55)/4DP4RAU8FH% MD'17L$1AZ'1E.C8D-D__40]2'_]3+U0Y,< ]HPXA2Z$ZM@Y0FU5O5GY2.8$7 M`2!(/9'[!) V)#=9;UI_6X]##W>'!Q40& M;E@P`& )\$V@[WT``@$UX%Y290#P?0`Q@))P'H!<=@B0=VL+@/YD:T" H@3P M!T 080% #@#O<2(]@H(%`A!O!4(7(1+R#5C ;0M16, @0SI #8'-O`8 @+D\!( W@?_! "C M/ZC/J=^JY)\*^0,P>"]Y/WK->U24H0IK!"!!?Q!Y.R!)UB!MD#50)P5 86V1 M$X 9AB @>0AAM5!R9RS\(&)G4+1AA2&54 > !M#;!)"U4G0QT%? > 91"8 8 M($5X%M$/<&4N($I*`-!K!_%W9;80*/NPD#5@2 ]D'%0P8#WOQ(3 M4+3A( D`!4"W4D[ \X9RM5!N+6=P,7"U@!<@V;C 02 04 ?@15? -7#[MM6\ MX6B[$+_0LF(%H$Y@_S4@LA 3@+X6->%-T (@M87?N;"\98&0`Z 7<&^ H $` M_[80NP%G<;/@MA %L<4EP(#=O+!WQE.W$,:29DY@MB#G@T!/(&V0>7.]1J^D ML&_[L7\%0'L`P `@%N *A01E"XH-8SS,O_L 9B_6\@T>]POW'/ M9S]H3_]I7VIOLT34-E=S#(*T`P?P@"!;4TU44#H+8#!M=4!WQ# U8'1=_]?? MV.1NN]H?VR_T-]F*)$.= 0 GP@* #8,G2SBZU MX>__-:!#8^S^[H'IP"$@5[T1<_./[)%8)!_[4QQ>2W$ J%AA"[4+50 M!^+_P*'[P+?!Q[' <[QUO_.)0?M_<1. '(X,-AP@3#H$=%_[80,="Z M(,*@"4#*$;8R"3/\:'GHD #PNL!_<0C%M:+?Q2;[L;>"$?:U(6&XP U!@C%MXI3&\ ] MPD>\@OP_/RK-M"'03=2V!3+5F Q]`#7 -? ``P`0$ `````#`!$0``````,` M@!#_____0 `',,"+=_=D<+X!0 `(,,"+=_=D<+X!"P``@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8``````X4````````#``* "" &``````# ````````1@`````0A0`` M``````,`!8 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````%*%``"W#0``'@`E@ @@!@`` M````P ```````$8`````5(4```$````$````."XP``,`)H (( 8``````, ` M``````!&``````&%````````"P`O@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````#H4` M```````#`#" "" &``````# ````````1@`````1A0````````,`,H (( 8` M`````, ```````!&`````!B%````````'@!!@ @@!@``````P ```````$8` M````-H4```$````!`````````!X`0H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#>% M```!`````0`````````>`$. "" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0`` G``$`````````'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``/D/ ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 08:11:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29197 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:11:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01532; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:59:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01222 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:56:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10NFuV-0006QK-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 04:58:59 -0800 Message-ID: <36EFA43B.E078CFF3@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 04:46:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: WORLDWIDE DEMONSTRATION AGAINST GENE ENGINEERING MAY 13TH, 1999, NOON Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 CALL FOR A WORLD WIDE DEMONSTRATION AGAINST GENE ENGINEERING, MAY 13TH, 1999 AT NOON IN EVERY DWELLING, HAMLET, VILLAGE, TOWN AND CITY OF THIS PLANET BY INTERFERING WITH THE LIFE FORCES IN SEEDS, ANIMALS AND HUMANS INDUSTRY IS EGOTISTICALLY AT WORK ON ALTERING LIFE PATTERNS THAT HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS. WHAT THEY CALL GENE MANIPULATION, IN SHORT, IS NOTHING LESS THAN RAPE OF MOTHER NATURE. A TYPICAL BYPRODUCT OF OUR 'HAVING-GONE-MAD INDUSTRIAL AND (SO CALLED) SCIENTIFIC SOCIETY' WE, THE PEOPLE OF THIS WORLD, WOMEN AND MEN, WILL NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN. ENOUGH RAPE HAS GONE ONE. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. WE STAND UNITED IN DEFENDING MOTHER EARTH AGAINST THIS SORT OF PROFIT MINDED AND ANTI SOCIAL BEHAVIOR. IT VIOLENTLY ATTACKS, ALTERS AND MISUSES OUR MOST BASIC NEEDS: OUR FOOD. WE WILL NEITHER REST, SLEEP NOR SHUT UP UNTIL THIS INJUSTICE (RAPE) HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED FOR WHAT IT IS. IT MUST BE STOPPED NOW AND FOREVER. THE TIME IS SHORT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. WE HAVE DECIDED TO ACT NOW. WE SHALL NOT LET THIS PLANET BE RUINED YET AGAIN (ATOMIC BOMB ETC.). LET US REMEMBER THAT GENE ENGINEERING WILL AFFLICT EVERYBODY FROM NOW ON FORWARD FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS TO COME. WE, THEREFORE, ARE CALLING FOR A DEMONSTRATION IN EACH AND EVERY CITY, TOWN, VILLAGE, HAMLET, AND DWELLING ON THIS EARTH ON ASCENSION DAY MAY 13TH, 1999, AT NOON THIS IS THE DAY FROM WHENCE FORWARD THERE SHALL BE NO FURTHER RAPE OF MOTHER EARTH. GENE ENGINEERING BE BANNED. LET DEMONSTRATIONS TAKE PLACE IN (FIRST RECIPIENT OF THIS POST ADD BEST PLACE IN YOUR TOWN FOR A LARGE DEMONSTRATION.) NEW YORK: Central Park LIECHTENSTEIN TORONTO: High Park STRASSBOURG LONDON: Speaker's Corner OSLO ZURICH Bellevue STOCKHOLM VANCOUVER Stanley Park MEXICO CITY SEATTLE Space Needle TEL AVIV VIENNA Prater ATHENS HELSINKI ISTAMBUL PARIS Place Etoile SOFIA ROME WASHINGTON MOSCOW DELHI BERLIN SIDNEY HAMBURG OTTAWA WARSAW GRAZ CHICAGO AMSTERDAM SAN FRANCISCO VATICAN CITY TOKYO BUONES AIRES MELBURNE ADD YOUR CITY AND PLACE AUCKLAND BRUSSELS ROTTERDAM GHENT BERN MADRID ZAGREB ANCHORAGE =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTER FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 08:22:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29406 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:22:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA02838; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:11:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA02806 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10NG8e-0002gx-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:13:36 -0800 Message-ID: <36EFA7E8.4AEA57CD@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:02:32 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Calf rearing w/out the mamma References: <3.0.32.19691231140000.0104d614@pop-server> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 Dear Phyl, To begin with, I ought to make it clear that calf rearing (without the mama) is one of the most challenging jobs there is. Firstly, you have to massage the animal several times a day (as the mama does). Her tongue starts at the front (you may want to take a somewhat wetted towel) and work all the way to the back. Make sure that she always has a clean and dry anus. Milk replacers are, by and large, the worst you can give, however: what else is there? IF you give replacer, keep her on the sparing side. DO NOT OVERFEED. A SLIM CALF IS A HEALTHY CALF WAS ALWAYS RIGHT (ON OUR FARM). Give her additional amounts of lukewarm water when needed. The name of the game is NOT to get the runs, diarrhea. Milk, natural (if possible) could be given, however, this is dangerous as (in your temperature) it could get sour and may cause the runs. Should she develop the scours (runs) we used a raw egg yolk that we fed directly into the mouth. Dry fodder is already a possibility. Finely cut hay & fodder pellets. Martha's advice is excellent. Personally, I'd feed her with my fingers (in the bucket). OUr calves always learned to fend for themselves when the time had come. Phyl Dwyer wrote: > March 15, 1999 - Hawaii > > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone have suggestions about how to salvage a rather funky situation > for a special little heifer calf (almost eight weeks old, born 1/19/99) > that was taken from its mother immediately after birth and stuffed in a > cage in a bank of cages along with hundreds of other calves? She did not > fair well with the "bucket" drink it or "the hell with you" approach of the > dairy industry and is some what set back in her body weight and > development. We've taken her to our farm and are using what seems to be our > only option - a milk substitute powder. She was actually nearly born in a > better situation. Her mother was naturally bred and pastured during her > pregnancy, but was purchased into another dairy as part of a buy out that > just happened to coincide with her birth. > > Any suggestions that might help Monique, "Little Mo", in her journey toward > adulthood would be greatly appreciated, especially a source for more > organic or BD milk substitutes, etc. > > Thanks so much, > > Phyl Dwyer - Proud, but desperate new Dad! > pdwyer@hawaii.rr.com > > =================================================== > Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address > > =================================================== -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTER FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 08:49:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29839 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:49:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA04817; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:38:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04736 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:38:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p00-91.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.166]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id HAA02015 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:41:28 -0600 Message-ID: <003601be708c$ceb2a8a0$a6f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Alan Kapuler and Peace Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:41:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7049.887BF0A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7049.887BF0A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Alan- I was wondering how someone gets a copy of your Peace Papers? I'm = teaching a class at Prescott College next Spring and was hoping to use = it. I looked through books in print and nothing there. Also, what is = your connection to Deep Diversity Seeds in Gila, NM. I see they list = themselves as formerly Peace Seeds, wasn't this your company?=20 It's very exciting to have your energy on the list! Take care, Parker ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7049.887BF0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Alan-
     I = was wondering=20 how someone gets a copy of your Peace Papers? I'm teaching a class at = Prescott=20 College next Spring and was hoping to use it. I looked through books in = print=20 and nothing there. Also, what is your connection to Deep Diversity Seeds = in=20 Gila, NM. I see they list themselves as formerly Peace Seeds, wasn't = this your=20 company?
     = It's very=20 exciting to have your energy on the list!
 
Take care,
Parker
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7049.887BF0A0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 08:55:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29921 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:55:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA05391; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:44:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05090 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:41:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10NGcS-00015J-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:44:25 -0800 Message-ID: <36EFAF09.A548719E@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:32:57 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: My cow research, so far, has yielded the following Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 139 Cow reaearch by Ferdinand: FEUDALISM: You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk. PURE SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need. BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and as many eggs as the regulations say you should need. PURE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk. Your neighbor has 25 children; you are a single parent with a child who has moved out. RUSSIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk. DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you. MILITARISM: You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you. PURE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk. REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk. AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: The government promises to give you two cows if you vote for it. After the election, the president is impeached for speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the affair "Cowgate". BRITISH DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. You feed them sheeps' brains and they go mad. The government doesn't do anything. ISRAELI DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. They form a political party. That party splits up over religious, ethnic and security differences. The problem is that it splits into three parties, and you still have only two cows. BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. After that it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows. ANARCHY: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbours try to kill you and take the cows. CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. or CAPITALISM: You have no cows, but a Capitalist will let you milk her cow for you and they pay you enough to buy only 5% of the milk you just got out of the cow. TOTALITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and denies they ever existed. Milk is banned. BC POLITICS: You have two cows, instead of selling the milk, you sell the cows and open a casino in the empty barn. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 09:53:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01163 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:53:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA14631; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13950 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:39:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.3] (client-151-196-116-3.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.3]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24323 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:41:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903171441.JAA24323@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:20:13 -0500 Subject: Off: request Swiss CSA contacts From: "Steven McFadden" To: BD now Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 140 Hi - A US reporter has contacted me seeking leads to CSA farms in Switzerland. She is planning a trip there in the Autumn, and wants to write something on the subject. If you have any contacts in Switzerland, or promising leads, please let me know by e-mail and I will forward the messages on to her. With thanks, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 11:47:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04349 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:47:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05672; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:35:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05119 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:33:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.167] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.167]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8Q00ADDYGTMD@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:14:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:20:55 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id LAA05139 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 141 >Guillermo, > >My quarry dust was granite and by exhaustive analysis showed over 4% >potassium and 0.72% phosphorous. I don't remember the calcium or magnesium >content but it was NOT high--I believe under 1% for each. Silicon (atomic >weight 28) was somewhere in the high 20s as I recall, which would make the >silica content (silicon dioxide, molecular weight 60) up above 50%. I >believe there was some nitrogen content since the granite was blasted out >of the mountain with ammonium nitrate mixed with diesel oil. > >The best test as far as I'm concerned is wherever I applied it (maybe half >a centimeter or so thick) I got a good algal bloom (given our high >rainfall). I think there is another phenomenon associated with it that >might be lost in the quest for chemical analysis and looking at everything >with a microscope. Earthworms loved this stuff. > >The chemical folks may tell you it is best if rock powders are ground fine >enough to pass a 60 or even 80 mesh screen. They'll say their tests show >that's what it takes to get good release of mineral nutrients. I guess they >haven't many earthworms in their test plots. > >Consider this. Earthworms are like chickens and have gizzards instead of >teeth. They like those sharp, siliceous, gritty pieces to grind their food >(the lawnmower clippings in this case) with. The chemists may tell you >those sandy bits don't contain much in the way of nutrients anyway. But >they're hard. I can hear the chemists scoff now, thinking what is the value >of hardness? This quarry was noted for having hard stone, and like I say >the earthworms loved it. They came up and scarffed it off the surface at >night, gathered their lawnmower clippings, and presumably spend their days >underground feasting to their hearts' content. That's what opened up the >soil on that hillside and let in the nitrogen, oxygen and water. You know, >those things nature gives us free if we have sense enough to go for it. >What a key thing! Earthworms and hard, sharp bits of quartz with supposedly >very low nutrient content. > >I doubt it could have been done with finer quarry dust or without the >earthworms. Nor could the whole thing have occurred without BD preps to >bring in the life forces. And I might add, since BD emphasizes the >importance of looking at larger scale phenomena such as the overall growth >and digestive activity and gives less emphasis to chemical analysis, it was >the BD way of looking at things that achieved these results. > >Best, > >Hugh Lovel >Blairsville, Georgia > >"If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. >If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. >Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting >that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi Dear Hugh: Many thanks for your reply, I knew you were the one to ask on this one. Now, what I am understanding here is that the benefits of the rock dust are mainly in its fuction as a "substrate" for earthworm action ?. How about the action of microorganisms on rock dust to produce the chelatization of the minerals ? (probably facilitated by the worms work), I would assume that microorganism would benefit more from a finner structure, is'nt so ? I really do not want to get caught in the chemistry (I never liked been an employee) I only want to understand why and when it is important to use the dust for the mineralization of the soil. As part of the understanding, I want to know about the mechanisms and BD considerations involved. The test you are suggesting about the promotion of algaee growth, could be a good indicator, but I would bet it's results would be confounded by many unaccounted for variables. (such as the BDO in your rain water, light exposure and the capacity of the rock dust to hold moisture). I am here confronted with a situation where I could use volcanic ash, granite dust or basalt dust, ( could you say the three things can be grouped as "rock dust" ?). My problem is that I do not know what would be best or appropriate to use in a mineralization "therapy". For this therapy, I do not consider Si important, because I assume is already abundant (other than in heavy clay soils), Steiner himself mentioned (L2-p31) that "we can almost count on enough silica being present to have the desired effect". The effect being "the extent to which the soil becomes alive and develops its own chemistry". So if the "Silica" content of the rock powders are not all that different (around 50 %) and we most always have enough, then what are the important variables in re-mineralization?, What are the limiting factors ?, is it the mineral composition of the rock ?, is it the physical properties (such as grit for worms) or is it something else in addition to the above. An underlying question; why and when is re-mineralization (adding rock dust) important ? A spin off question could be: If we have enough rocks, sand and mineral dust (Silica), the soil itself through the action of the furthest forces of the universe (life-ether and chemical-ether) the soil would balance itself (develops it's own chemistry) ? Let me rephrase my original question: If you were in my situation, of the three sources mentioned, what would you use ? and what elements and mechanisms (intellectual or not) would you consider to reach your decision ?. I want to make it clear that I really do not want to get into an argument here, I just want to benefit from your knowledge and experience. Many thanks for all your help and my warmest regards to you. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 13:38:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08038 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:38:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27400; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:27:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA27247 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:26:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-14.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.15]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id KAA09314 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:29:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990317110215.00930670@mail.kootenay.com> Message-Id: <4.1.19990317110215.00930670@mail.kootenay.com> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:08:42 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Subject: Spring Equinox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 142 Listfolk: The Spring Equinox happens Saturday, March 20, 5:45 PM our time here in British Columbia. What signs of Spring have we all been observing? Never mind bragging, you guys south of the 30 degrees Latitude...I know it's been Spring there for some time. Signs of Spring here at Aurora Farm: * Lilacs, serviceberry, Balm of Gilead buds swelling; * Crocus and snowdrops blooming; * Robins and Towhees singing; * A bald eagle soaring over our hilltop yesterday; * A couple of nights lately when it didn't drop below freezing... Ahhhhhh! Woody From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 14:31:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08914 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:31:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA06603; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06336 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:18:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id OAA18082 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:21:05 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:21:01 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4005BE9CA0@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'biodynamic'" Subject: raw food BDers? Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:20:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 143 please pardon this brief survey of sorts that would help me with a long-term decision about my health. i would really value the biodynamic perspective. is there anyone on this list who is predominantly a raw foodist (one who eats nothing but raw fruits, vegs, nuts, seeds, spouted grains and beans)? and then, is there anyone in that group who lives somewhere like Canada or orthern Vermont or somewhere it would ordinarily be hard to find fresh food year round? how do you manage? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 15:15:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09983 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:15:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA15030; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:02:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14635 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:00:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.70] (client-151-196-125-70.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.70]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12139 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:05:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903172005.PAA12139@smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:02:44 -0500 Subject: Off - Re: Spring Equinox From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id PAA14636 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 144 Ah Spring, so it looms, snow melting fast here in northern Baltimore County, MD. Our big SIGN -- the ceremony we are hosting, in conjunction with thousands of indigenous, Tibetan, and ecumentical folk around the world. From Stonehenge to Chichen Itza, to Macchu Pichu to Uluru in Australia -- people will greet the Sun to send out prayers according to their own tradition and hearts. FYI, I have pasted below the invitation we have extended to our friends, family and neighbors.....Megwiich, Steven SOLAR WAVE CEREMONY Sunset Saturday March 20 through Sunrise, Sunday, March 21 At Yeoho Grove in Parkton, MD × Help Lift the Energy × At the Sun rises on March 21, 1999 ­ just hours after the exact moment of the Vernal Equinox ­ thousands of groups around the world will gather in circles to pray for peace and for the ongoing spiritual awakening of humanity. In the ancient calendar system of the Maya the new year begins at this moment ­ Sunrise at Vernal Equinox. They designate the year as 10 MANIK ­ a Mayan concept that translates as "a Year to Grasp the Higher Vision and Manifest Peace." Considering all that is unfolding in our world at the verge of the Millennium, many are taking advantage of this moment to pray, sing, meditate, or otherwise promote universal spiritual principles ­ according to the ways and traditions of their hearts. As with the Harmonic Convergence in 1987, millions of visionaries, lightworkers and peacekeepers who hold a positive vision for humanity's awakening, universal peace, and planetary healing will amplify this impulse through the powerful SOLAR WAVE commenced at sunrise. During the Solar Wave, the Sun will be at its zenith on the Equator, and will emanate a solar wave force balanced in all Four Directions. We will gather at Sunset on Saturday for Purification Lodges. We will fast through the night and awaken for an ecumenical Sunrise ceremony ­ linking with thousands of other groups around the world at pyramids, temples, groves, and other sacred sites. The ceremony will be followed by a pot-luck breakfast party. Please bring something scrumptiously nutritious for the feast. Please call if you are planning to join us. × Yeoho Grove: 410-343-0856 × From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 16:11:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11438 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24622; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:59:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (send207.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.131]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24274 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:57:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990317210425.8673.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.205.40.10] by send207.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:04:25 PST Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:04:25 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: OFF GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 145 John, actually to the whole list, since I cannot always tell who wrote what. I am in a "men's" group that is full of EDUCATED people who somehow feel that the ultimate insult often flung around is that someone/thing is somehow connected to the 'patriarchy'. I have not gotten far with reminding these men of several things. First, there have been nurturing male traditioons that were very earth friendly, like the 'greenman'. Secondly, there has been no real 'conspiracy' by men against women, it is just an ignorance of historic proportions. The real dichotomy is between exploitation and nurture, NOT between male ideas and female ideas. Men are still almost half of the populatioon, and this constant put-down of maleness, often by men themselves, will not help anyone to see a new visioon, or recapture an old one of value. As long as we are sexual beings, maleness will be a worthwhile paart of the whole diverse picture. I refuse to accept the judgement that equates maleness with exploitatioon! not that anyone said that exactly, but it seems to be a prevelant idea in our society. Bruce Ritchie > Said witches, gardeners etc. were pagans, and it was Saint Patrick who drove paganism (snakes) > from Ireland....a thought to have as you raise a toast tomorrow. Goddess-based pagans worshiped > the snake as essential to life on Earth. Somehow the Bible authors (King James?) made the snake > a nasty enemy, and women the fault of all our suffering. Gee, and here we are on a planet we've > rendered ill. Hmmm. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 17:43:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13905 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:43:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10794; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:30:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10628 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:29:24 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hDINa04982 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:31:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:31:27 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Spring Equinox Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 146 Signs of Spring at 21 degrees N: in January.... The cardinals began their mating songs. Mango trees didn't bloom as they usually do. Time to plant cucumbers, summer squash, and snow peas. in February.... Cardinal's songs increase. Not as rainy as January. Shower tree pods start dropping. November pole beans finally finished. in March.... Birdsong all day long. Begin harvesting cukes, peas and squash. Some days the sun is uncomfortable between 12 and 2. Chickens really start to "crank." Weed and grass growth accelerate. Ke'anae, Maui. ' 99 Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 19:19:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16405 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25419; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:07:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25087 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:05:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.26.115 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:07:57 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01be70d2$fda75e80$731a2599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:05:09 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 147 Friends, I started this thread with the hope that folks would contribute to the discussion around the notion, that somehow there must be a spiritual lesson in the GMO story - AND - hopefully something positive to set our energy into. I suggested that the research and development into genetics and biotech of various kinds, was mainly about getting a handle on the life processes (or life forces; speak: the etheric), rather than just on manipulating a specific plant's gene pool or making lots of money through genetic copyrights, patents and other forms of monopolies. I was hoping for some reflective feedback - and still am. My hope was further, that we might look together at the potential implications of our biodynamic work as a counterbalance (specifically around developing insight into life forces) to the GMO work being done. Specifically, what kinds of work are you all doing around studying, experiencing, working with the etheric forces? How is it that these corporations and government agencies, universities and private companies are spending these huge amounts of money on discovering how to plants with materialistic means only? Are we able to develop new plants, healthier plants, new varieties, etc. through other means? By working with spiritual, rather than just material forces and substances? Can we begin to discuss this part of biodyanmics? Curious, Andrew From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 19:33:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16696 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:33:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA27592; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:22:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27122 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:19:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.26.115 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:21:56 -0800 Message-ID: <002801be70d4$f188bac0$731a2599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: OFF: request Swiss CSA contacts Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:19:07 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 148 Steven, Write the Goetheanum, specifically the Agriculture Department, Natural Sciences Section - try perhaps Mr. Markus Huter and ask for addresses, numbers, etc. of community farms in CH. science_goetheanum@compuserve.com is the email address. Cheers, Andrew >Hi - > >A US reporter has contacted me seeking leads to CSA farms in Switzerland. >She is planning a trip there in the Autumn, and wants to write something on >the subject. > >If you have any contacts in Switzerland, or promising leads, please let me >know by e-mail and I will forward the messages on to her. > >With thanks, Steven > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 19:54:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17007 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:54:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00451; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:41:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00022 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:38:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.180] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.180]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8R00D0JJWT0N@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:58:13 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:04:07 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: OFF: My cow research, so far, has yielded the following In-reply-to: <36EFAF09.A548719E@direct.ca> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: leandro@cgic.ucol.mx Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id TAA00032 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 149 >Cow reaearch by Ferdinand: > >FEUDALISM: You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk. > >PURE SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts >them in a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of >all >the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need. > >BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them >and >puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by >ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the >government >took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk >and >as many eggs as the regulations say you should need. > >PURE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care >of >them, and you all share the milk. Your neighbor has 25 children; you >are >a single parent with a child who has moved out. > >RUSSIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, >but >the government takes all the milk. > >DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots >you. > >MILITARISM: You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts >you. > >PURE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the >milk. > >REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick >someone >to tell you who gets the milk. > >AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: The government promises to give you two cows if >you >vote for it. After the election, the president is impeached for >speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the affair "Cowgate". > >BRITISH DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. You feed them sheeps' brains and >they go mad. The government doesn't do anything. > >ISRAELI DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. They form a political party. >That >party splits up over religious, ethnic and security differences. The >problem is that it splits into three parties, and you still have only >two cows. > >BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. At first the government regulates what >you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to >milk them. After that it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and >pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms >accounting for the missing cows. > >ANARCHY: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price >or >your neighbours try to kill you and take the cows. > >CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. >or >CAPITALISM: You have no cows, but a Capitalist will let you milk her >cow for you and they pay you enough to buy only 5% of the milk you >just >got out of the cow. > >TOTALITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and >denies >they ever existed. >Milk is banned. > >BC POLITICS: You have two cows, instead of selling the milk, you sell >the cows and open a casino in the empty barn. Dear Ferdinand: (sorry Allan this is a totally OFF topic) (sorry all for mispelling) I could not resisted adding the Mexican system: THE MEXICAN SYSTEM (or Where is the Beef ? story) The Government asks the World Bank and IDB for a development loan to buy USA swiss cows in order to improve milk productivity in the Country's tropical regions. The government mounts a grand ceremony with lots of media coverage to make the physical delivery of the cows to the beneficiaries of the program in Mexico City's Zocalo (main square). (to qualify as a cow recipient you are either closely related to the government officer responsible for the cow program or, in times of elections, they give you a coupon valid for one cow, but only after they make certain that you, your family and at least ten of your neighbors voted for the PRI). In the delivery ceremony everyone is given a "cow" enclosed in a beautiful gift box (the boxes are part of the 200 % program's overhead and were manufactured very tastefully by the wife of the Minister of Agriculture). Once you open your box, you realize that you signed a receipt and a credit line for an empty beautiful box and that you will have to service that "soft loan" for 20 years at a 45 % yearly compound interest rate. There are some complains, not so many as the situation deserved, because recepients do not want to hurt the revolutionary family or, they know that selling votes is not all that legal. The guy responsible for playing a tape of cow sounds (a lot of moo's) during the delivery ceremony is trown in jail. According to the Judicial Police, He is the only suspect in the "presumed fraud". He will await sentence for about ten years on until the investigations are completed (probably another 20 years) in a maximum security prison. There is a lot of people defaulting now on their cow credit lines due to bad weather (of course), so that, in order to compensate the situation and pay back the international loans in strict time (or even before the deadline in order to qualify for other loans) the Mexican Government decides to create a fund trust in suport of the cow debtors, and capitalize the fund by means of increasing taxes on milk and milk related products (packaging material, restaurants, cars, gasoline, paper, publicity, chairs, cribs, air fares, etc.). As a result milk consumption drops to an historic low of 5 milliliters percaput/year. The Government goes into another pompous ceremony to announce that given the Presidential efforts, Mexico's milk production has finally reached country level self sufficiency for the first time in centuries and that we have a surplus production subject to be exported to the US and Canada under the NAFTA benefits (tax and tariff free). The export deal never closes, there are suspicions on the Canadian end, that Liconsa (the Official Milk Company) is using this commercialization chanel to get rid of surplus milk acquired years ago from Russia after the Chernobyl accident. The Cow Fraud is commented in the front page of the Washington Post and in the interior pages of the National Enquire (are these published by the same editor?) and is somehow related to drug deals in the Tijuana border. Janet Reno declares that the US judiciary system has confiscated a bank account in San Antonio, Texas to the name of the eldest brother of the Mexican Minister of Agriculture with a $ 1.2 billion dollar balance (coincidentaly the same as the total amount of the WB and IDB cow credits, minus the 15 % service comission), and that the money, because is drug related and was laundered in the States by Citibank, will be transfered to the US Treasury where it will be used in AID's humanitarian and "surveillance" projects. Ni modo, Aqui me toco vivir. Cheers Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 19:55:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17029 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:55:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00887; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:43:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00699 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:42:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.26.14 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:45:02 -0800 Message-ID: <004601be70d8$2adc9aa0$731a2599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: OFF: raw food BDers? Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:41:38 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 150 For a short while, James, I was into raw foods, about 20 years ago, while living in the Swiss Alps. I discovered that it did not work for me very well, because I lost bodily warmth, was always cold. Over time, I discoverd that Steiner too, had worked with the ideas of raw foods and had at one point suggested no more than one third raw foods for the average person - for a variety of reasons. One being the warmth issue (I wasnt surpised), another being the notion that warming foods (by cooking them with heat) continued the sun's ripening process and that for human consciousness this was a good thing. Finally, he indicated that naturally processed foods (as is sauerkraut or yogurt for example) were also very important for inner development faculties. So I took up, for a while, the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 idea (raw, cooked, processed), which worked great for the 7 or so years I was able to keep it up. Thinking about going back to it, actually. Good luck with your search, Andrew please pardon this brief survey of sorts that would help me with a long-term >decision about my health. i would really value the biodynamic perspective. > >is there anyone on this list who is predominantly a raw foodist (one who >eats nothing but raw fruits, vegs, nuts, seeds, spouted grains and beans)? >and then, is there anyone in that group who lives somewhere like Canada or >orthern Vermont or somewhere it would ordinarily be hard to find fresh food >year round? how do you manage? > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 19:58:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17076 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:58:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA01370; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:47:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01264 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:46:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-12.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.187]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id SAA18697 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:49:49 -0600 Message-ID: <001201be70ea$2c755de0$bbf2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: Spring Equinox Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:49:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 151 Woody- Here in southwestern Wisconsin, Spring is on the move also. The birds seem to be singing brighter and louder each morning. Yesterday I sat cross-legged while 200 ft.away on the other side of the field lolled a fox, taking in the sun on an unseasonably warm 63 degree day here. We sat and looked at eachother for 20 minutes until I got up and walked away. An owl has parked on the edge of the field also, I hear it woo even during the day. I expect the freshly burned field is a feasting ground for these two. The 1/2 mile dirt road into the farm is so muddy in the low spots that we have to walk in. Eating lots of water cress and greenhouse nettles, started 600 flower seedlings yesterday. Parker -----Original Message----- From: Woody To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 10:33 AM Subject: Spring Equinox >Listfolk: > >The Spring Equinox happens Saturday, March 20, 5:45 PM our time here in >British Columbia. >What signs of Spring have we all been observing? Never mind bragging, you >guys south of the 30 degrees Latitude...I know it's been Spring there for >some time. > >Signs of Spring here at Aurora Farm: > >* Lilacs, serviceberry, Balm of Gilead buds swelling; >* Crocus and snowdrops blooming; >* Robins and Towhees singing; >* A bald eagle soaring over our hilltop yesterday; >* A couple of nights lately when it didn't drop below freezing... > >Ahhhhhh! > >Woody From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 20:13:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17353 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:13:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA03251; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:59:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02908 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:57:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0203.direct.ca ([204.244.83.19] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10NRAe-0004Cs-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:00:27 -0800 Message-ID: <36F04C3A.FCC31FA6@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:43:38 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Off: request Swiss CSA contacts References: <199903171441.JAA24323@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 152 Dear Steven, I have contacted Demeter Germany to see whether they can give me the Demeter Switzerland address. Thereafter, I shall forward it to you. Regards Ferdinand Steven McFadden wrote: > Hi - > > A US reporter has contacted me seeking leads to CSA farms in Switzerland. > She is planning a trip there in the Autumn, and wants to write something on > the subject. > > If you have any contacts in Switzerland, or promising leads, please let me > know by e-mail and I will forward the messages on to her. > > With thanks, Steven -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 17 21:16:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18594 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:16:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12253; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA05255 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:14:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0203.direct.ca ([204.244.83.19] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10NRQU-0005q9-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:16:47 -0800 Message-ID: <36F05017.990FFA97@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:00:07 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Al Kapuler replies "The impact of GMO's on our future" References: <19993161931135705@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 153 Dear Al, Yes, you are right, one can fight GE with other means as well - although Al, may I say that materialism imho always = atheism (materialism totally denies the creator being I worship) And Al, racism is always alienistic. There isn't any racism that doesn't alienate. Perhaps my cows, (and other animals) do live by a certain (wholistic) racism - I assume they do not know better OR (speaking from a more spiritual side) they know that the etheric forms around a certain breed does not fit into another etheric form. Cows often eliminate any other breed that does not belong into theirs. In other words: my Black Angus excluded Red Angus (calves) so much so that they would have killed them. To keep the race clean, I suppose (or, see above). Still: where's the beef! Regards Ferdinand (so, this is a pleonasm) and beanman@ix.netcom.com wrote: > On 03/16/99 17:50:48 you wrote: > > > >Dear Ferdinand, > > I certainly agree that sitting back, sheeping it out, while GMO's > >overrun us, is an inadequate response. > > So, one can collect, grow and inspire biodiversity. It is not only > >GMO's that are eliminating species, it is monoculture agriculture, > >alienistic racism, athiestic materialism. > > > Best of growing, > > Al Kapuler > > > > > > > GMOs are, proven in many European tests (but never found in Monsanto et al propaganda), contorting related species in the wild, so in > that sense, yes they are eliminating species. > > Paco > aka John E. Verin > > "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. > When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." > - Dom Helder Camara -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 00:15:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21773 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:15:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02683; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:03:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15772 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:28:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from dirkers@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D5X7TAEC; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:30:53 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:51:07 -0600 Subject: Re: soil testing Message-ID: <19990317.201614.9614.1.Dirkers@juno.com> References: <19990316163300646.AAA952@erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,9-17,19-45 From: Christopher P Dirkers Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 154 In my opinion Dr. Phil Wheeler at CSI, Inc. is a very knowledgeable soil chemist. He understands both organic (LaMotte) and inorganic techniques. Call 800-260-7933 or Drdirt25@aol.com. Christopher Dirkers -------------------------------------- Located in the beautiful Ozarks, Dirkers' Pleasant Valley School and Farm is dedicated to providing nourishment for mind and body. We raise pure, nutritionally enhanced produce, herbs, and pastured poultry. Classes include Family Preparedness, Health & Agronomy, and Scriptural Law. Dirkers' Pleasant Valley School & Farm HC62, Box 370-A Calico Rock, Arkansas. U.S.A. (72519) 870-297-8040 or dirkers@juno.com On 16 Mar 99 10:32:51 -0600 Erica Renaud writes: >To bd subscribers, > >I wanted to know if anyone could provide me with some feedback >concerning soil analysis. We, at the organic farm where I work, >submitted three soil samples to three different soil testing >laboratories. One of the laboratories where we sent a sample was >Woodsend. I understand that this soils lab is highly supported by >biodynamic growers and I wanted to know why? In addition, I wanted to >know what makes their analysis most appropriate to biodynamic growers? > It appears to me that their analysis is very thorough, perhaps more >than all of the other laboratories we submitted samples to. I would >appreciate any comments that would help me make a more thorough >assessment of the results provided. > >Thank you, > >Erica > > > >Erica N.C. Renaud >Organic Research Farm, Research Specialist >Frontier Natural Products Co-op >(319) 227 - 7996 ext.1373 > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 00:15:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21782 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:15:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02447; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:02:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14187 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:17:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.149] (pm3shep2-163-75.intrepid.net [209.190.163.75]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23888 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:20:11 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990316163300646.AAA952@erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:03:09 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: soil testing Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 155 Sorry, Erica, I guess I've never met an Biodynamic grower who can AFFORD the soil tests at Woods End. I think the linkage between Wood end and biodynamics occurs at the bureaucratic level, not at the farm level. Of course, I'm probably biased. I've asked Woods End founder, Will Brinton, to link into BD Now! to discuss his 'soil life' kits and he's refused to do so. He's the first 'public figure' who has refused to interact with the BD Now! group. I have used the Solvita kits, but they are v. expensive and, since all my tests pegged the 'life' scale, I can only assume that these kits are designed for practitioners who are far removed from actual biodynamic practice. AND, I'm still waiting for the environmental impact study in regards to the manufacturing of the Woods End CSA recycling bags!! :-) Submitted respectfully by Allan Balliett igg@igg.com >To bd subscribers, > >I wanted to know if anyone could provide me with some feedback concerning >soil analysis. We, at the organic farm where I work, submitted three soil >samples to three different soil testing laboratories. One of the >laboratories where we sent a sample was Woodsend. I understand that this >soils lab is highly supported by biodynamic growers and I wanted to know >why? In addition, I wanted to know what makes their analysis most >appropriate to biodynamic growers? It appears to me that their analysis >is very thorough, perhaps more than all of the other laboratories we >submitted samples to. I would appreciate any comments that would help me >make a more thorough assessment of the results provided. > >Thank you, > >Erica > > > >Erica N.C. Renaud >Organic Research Farm, Research Specialist >Frontier Natural Products Co-op >(319) 227 - 7996 ext.1373 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 00:15:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21790 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:15:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02799; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17366 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:39:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp264.cy-net.net [208.21.195.73]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA09108 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:42:08 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE70B5.5F15AC80@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:33:09 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE70B5.5F15AC80@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: Ferdy's cow topic Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:30:13 -0600 Encoding: 12 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 156 Cows are springing in almost every field in Texas and it made me realize a thread I wanted to share with Ferdy's cow collection stories. The Nursery. Cows with very young calves will allot one cow mom to do nursery duty. By some unspoken signal, they'll all lie down and when they get up to graze off, the baby sitter won't budge. She'll graze around the calf group but rarely go off with the main herd. As the cows fill up with grass and start to stretch udders, they come lowing back to claim their young, but the baby sitter usually stays till the last one has been claimed. Usually the one with the youngest calf is the designated nursery mom, as hers can't get up and go for very long periods anyhow. But isn't it nice how they evolved this pattern of herd-ism? (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 00:15:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21801 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:15:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02589; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:03:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14207 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:17:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.149] (pm3shep2-163-75.intrepid.net [209.190.163.75]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23899 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:20:14 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4005BE9CA0@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:05:42 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: raw food BDers? Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 157 >please pardon this brief survey of sorts that would help me with a long-term >decision about my health. i would really value the biodynamic perspective. > >is there anyone on this list who is predominantly a raw foodist (one who >eats nothing but raw fruits, vegs, nuts, seeds, spouted grains and beans)? >and then, is there anyone in that group who lives somewhere like Canada or >orthern Vermont or somewhere it would ordinarily be hard to find fresh food >year round? how do you manage? We had a short discussion of this a while back. I think the Anne Wigmore (?) books advocate the juice of grain grasses and lots of sprouts. Also, even the raw food purists incorporate more 'cooked' foods during winter, as I understand it. I think that Rex Harril, of this list, is an authority on this. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 00:16:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21810 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:16:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02949; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:04:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01919 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:58:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-210.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.210]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA10036 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:01:21 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36F08807.372B@ipa.net> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:58:47 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 158 Intergalactic Garage wrote: > I've got no problem with this, Steve, have at it. I don't see any reason > why the two paragraphs above would conflict with caveat, of course. I'm sorry Allan, but I have no idea what you are talking about with this caveat gobbley-goop. Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 00:16:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21817 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:16:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02910; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:04:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01586 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:54:14 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA28627; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:56:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:56:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md14-12.ix.netcom.com(199.182.66.12) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028541; Wed Mar 17 22:55:39 1999 To: edophan@yahoo.com To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199931723572849961@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: OFF GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 159 I'm on your side, my friend. My referring to Goddess-based religion or the "it's all Eve's fault" sydrome has no intonation that "men are evil mysogenists." I, too, dislike "patriarchy" bashing. Robert Bly, among others, makes very helpful distinctions between true patriarchy and industrial domination which is tradionally run by men. My point was certain... institutions have made negative images/perceptions/concepts out of positive things... snakes, Earth worship, women, men, nature and living with it (paganism)... the list goes on. My frustration is that our culture celebrates these persons/events/institutions as inherently good things... like Columbus Day. Even Christmas is a copy of winter solstice celebration. That may be a can of worms I've opened, and if so, I'll just send them to the compost pile where lots of treats await them! > >John, > actually to the whole list, since I cannot always tell who wrote >what. I am in a "men's" group that is full of EDUCATED people who >somehow feel that the ultimate insult often flung around is that >someone/thing is somehow connected to the 'patriarchy'. I have not >gotten far with reminding these men of several things. First, there >have been nurturing male traditioons that were very earth friendly, >like the 'greenman'. Secondly, there has been no real 'conspiracy' by >men against women, it is just an ignorance of historic proportions. >The real dichotomy is between exploitation and nurture, NOT between >male ideas and female ideas. Men are still almost half of the >populatioon, and this constant put-down of maleness, often by men >themselves, will not help anyone to see a new visioon, or recapture an >old one of value. As long as we are sexual beings, maleness will be a >worthwhile paart of the whole diverse picture. I refuse to accept the >judgement that equates maleness with exploitatioon! not that anyone >said that exactly, but it seems to be a prevelant idea in our society. > Bruce Ritchie >> Said witches, gardeners etc. were pagans, and it was Saint Patrick >who drove paganism (snakes) >> from Ireland....a thought to have as you raise a toast tomorrow. >Goddess-based pagans worshiped >> the snake as essential to life on Earth. Somehow the Bible authors >(King James?) made the snake >> a nasty enemy, and women the fault of all our suffering. Gee, and >here we are on a planet we've >> rendered ill. Hmmm. >> >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > Paco aka John E. Verin "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 00:17:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21830 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:17:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02868; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:04:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21673 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ihug.co.nz (p55-max10.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.17.117.119]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26486 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:20:10 +1300 Message-ID: <36F008EF.4E70812@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:56:31 +1300 From: I & K Buckingham Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Calf rearing w/out the mamma References: <3.0.32.19691231140000.0104d614@pop-server> <36EFA7E8.4AEA57CD@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 160 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Should she develop the scours (runs) we used a raw egg yolk that we fed > directly into the mouth. We used the whole egg ( shell included ). Place over the back of the tongue and then crush. The homoeopathic remedies Arsenicum or China are of help with scour. The problem is generally not the scour but the dehydration that comes with it. Honey in water can help in this. Regards Ian Buckingham Maungatawhiri New Zealand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 03:12:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA24639 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:12:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA14796; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:02:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05758 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:36:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.28.69 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:38:21 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01be7101$1220d480$9f242599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Re: soil testing Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:35:01 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 161 Dear Erica, Allan and list friends, Soil testing is, by its very nature, built upon the presumption that what you find in the soil chemically is what is available to the plants - which could be (and often is) in many cases far from the truth. Usually, soil tests verify in more or less sophisticated manner, the presence of certain chemicals, compounds, the pH level, etc. in your soils. This is for sure a starting point. But, for anyone who has gotten soil tests back that say there is plenty of this or that in the soil and then received leaf and fruit analysis that said no such correlation was to be found in the upper parts of your crop, you know that what is in the soil is not always available to the plant. (This is a common experience.) So grower beware! It takes more than just presence (of a chemical) to be a nutrient. Chemicals in most cases need to be bound in organic compounds to be available and often need to have just the right moisture content, temperature, etc. to be available. Many conditions working together. Even with our more modern and complex technology, we are just at the beginning of being able to track available nutrients. Its still pretty much a guessing game. Do testing, but dont hold your breath. It gives you an outline, no more. Furthermore, in biodynamics we are more concerned with the process, lets say the calcium process for example, than the actual calcium as a chemical element. We are looking at the calcium as a part of a living, changing, dynamic equillibrium in the soil and, more importantly, as a part of an overall set of processes that engender growth and reproduction (in the case of calcim). We dont just add calcium to the soil, but make every attempt to stimulate the exisiting calcium (and related processes) in the soil through our general farm management (crop rotations, mulching, cover crops, tillage practices, etc.), fertilization plan (composting, liquid manures, manure teas, etc.) and specialized field sprays (so-called #500 in the case of calcium). We try and stimulate the existing, add gently and moreover, work homeopathically with the substances. This means we are not only not interested particularily with the presence of any given chemical element (but rather the process, e.g. how the element is flowing through towards its tasks), but we are also not so interested in quantities. We work with highly diluted and/or potentized minute (and especially prepared) quantities of substances to stimulate the (calcium) processes in the soil and crops. This too does not speak particularilly well of soil testing. The is more to be found in our own abilities to see the calcium process at work in the crops and to know if it is weak or strong and how to encourage (or discourage) it as needed and in an appropriate manner. (Not talking clairvoyance here, but the common ability to notice the effects of the calcium processes in the shapes, colors, growth patterns of the plants.) So, soil testing? Well, I suggest getting tested when you start your farm or garden and get it done by a soil lab that your extension office recommends (usually local or regional). This will generally improve accuracy since travel time is a factor. Then do it again 5 years later. And so on. Better yet, spend much more time, effort and resources on developing an understanding of the nitrogen, calcium, silica, etc. and how to read them in the book of nature. This will be more helpful to day to day growing than any soil test ever was. Cheers, Andrew Andrew C. Lorand, Ph.D. Farmer, Gardener and Independant Consultant for Biodynamics & Ecological Agriculture Program Coordinator/Santa Rosa Junior College/Santa Rosa, CA agdoc@msn.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 03:13:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA24669 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:13:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA14920; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07531 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:01:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max13-16.stc.net [208.210.137.16]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA19699 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:04:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:52:21 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 162 Guillermo writes > >Dear Hugh: > >Many thanks for your reply, I knew you were the one to ask on this one. > >Now, what I am understanding here is that the benefits of the rock dust >are mainly in its fuction as a "substrate" for earthworm action ?. How >about the action of microorganisms on rock dust to produce the >chelatization of the minerals ? (probably facilitated by the worms >work), I would assume that microorganism would benefit more from a finner >structure, is'nt so ? > >I really do not want to get caught in the chemistry (I never liked been >an employee) I only want to understand why and when it is important to use >the dust for the mineralization of the soil. As part of the >understanding, I want to know about the mechanisms and BD considerations >involved. > >The test you are suggesting about the promotion of algaee growth, could be >a good indicator, but I would bet it's results would be confounded by many >unaccounted for variables. (such as the BDO in your rain water, light >exposure and the capacity of the rock dust to hold moisture). I imagine you're right about this. In drier climes I doubt if algae would grow, at least not so fast. > >I am here confronted with a situation where I could use volcanic ash, >granite dust or basalt dust, ( could you say the three things can be >grouped as "rock dust" ?). My problem is that I do not know what would be >best or appropriate to use in a mineralization "therapy". Sure, they're all rock dusts. > > >For this therapy, I do not consider Si important, because I assume is >already abundant (other than in heavy clay soils), Steiner himself >mentioned (L2-p31) that "we can almost count on enough silica being >present to have the desired effect". The effect being "the extent to >which the soil becomes alive and develops its own chemistry". > >So if the "Silica" content of the rock powders are not all that different >(around 50 %) and we most always have enough, then what are the important >variables in re-mineralization?, What are the limiting factors ?, is it >the mineral composition of the rock ?, is it the physical properties (such >as grit for worms) or is it something else in addition to the above. An >underlying question; why and when is re-mineralization (adding rock dust) >important ? Adding rock dusts is almost always needed to rejuvenate worn out soils. You ought to ask why the earthworms thought so highly of scarffing up the quarry dust instead of relying on the abundant particulate materials already present? Why didn't they just eat the sand grains already there? There surely was something good about the granite sand. And, yes it had enough minerals in it that a sample I stirred up in water initially tested at pH 3.8. After two days in solution it tested at 8.2. Obviously some minerals were released! I hasten, however, to point out that I felt no need to resort to chemistry to tell me what it was. I didn't need to know because I knew the material was dynamite for the job I used it for, and it was $3 a pickup load. What a bargain! To think that it could be so cheap! > >A spin off question could be: If we have enough rocks, sand and mineral >dust (Silica), the soil itself through the action of the furthest forces >of the universe (life-ether and chemical-ether) the soil would balance >itself (develops it's own chemistry) ? This is a very interesting question. It should be possible, and I think today with the use of horn clay along with 500 and 501 we are much closer to being able to make this happen. One of the questions I did not get answered is the alumina content of this material. At the basis of all clays is aluminum. Aluminum is a magnet for life energies. It draws them. Put it around the outside of your chicken or potatoes and roast them and you will have something to eat that just got all the life force sucked out of it. Put it in clay and you've got soil that can really draw in life forces and become quite alive. Horn clay would "wake up" the clay already present in the soil. If there's not much clay in the soil, what little there is REALLY needs a wake up. However, if there is much clay in the soil, think what that soil might become if so much clay was really woken up! I'm of the thought that the trouble with most BD farms today is they aren't really developing very fast or very far in terms of life forces. They DO have more life forces than the farms around them, and they congratulate themselves on this and let it go. But on a scale of 1 to 100 they see their neighbors at 2 or 3 and themselves at 8 or 9 and think how far they've come when they should be thinking how far they have yet to go. > >Let me rephrase my original question: If you were in my situation, of the >three sources mentioned, what would you use ? and what elements and >mechanisms (intellectual or not) would you consider to reach your decision >? My approach is to use some of each and see what happens. For instance, back when I used the first quarry dust all my animals ate it greedily. Now the cows are indifferent, and the chickens, pigs and earthworms are not so excited either. Nor do I see such a boost in soybeans nor such a flavor improvement in the corn. I'd say I don't need it much any more. I'd see which, if any, of the rock materials gave favorable responses and how favorable. If one gave twice as favorable a response but was 10 times as expensive I'd be tempted to go for the cheaper of the two and see what using two times as much did. I've a feeling that much of this lab test stuff has people off in their heads and they are not trying things out enough to see what is practical. Phil Callahan seems to think that the paramagnetic readings a rock powder gives are one of the best tests of the value of a rock powder. At least up to a certain point. Magnetite ore is probably way to responsive to magnetism to be of use for most soils. But paramagnetism does seem to be indicative of soil that is receptive to life forces. > >I want to make it clear that I really do not want to get into an argument >here, I just want to benefit from your knowledge and experience. > >Many thanks for all your help and my warmest regards to you. > > >Guillermo Romero I. >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > One more thought Guillermo. Look again at the overall picture. There are two great streams of force at work. The growth stream that leads up vertically from the outer planets to fruit and seed, and the digestive stream that leads back down horizontally from the inner planets to the soil and fertility. A farmer needs to ask of all the things he does and all the inputs and outputs he buys in or sells out, "What is this doing for or to my my growth stream? What do I need to do to maximize my growth? And what is this doing for or to my digestive stream? What do I need to do to maximize my digestion?" And keep in mind there generally is too much to do. One needs to prioritize and figure out what does the most good for the most things out of all the options. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 03:14:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA24681 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:14:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA15015; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:03:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07584 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:02:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max13-16.stc.net [208.210.137.16]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA19712 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:04:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000e01be70d2$fda75e80$731a2599@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:40:24 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 163 Andrew writes: >Friends, > >I started this thread with the hope that folks would contribute to the >discussion around the notion, that somehow there must be a spiritual lesson >in the GMO story - AND - hopefully something positive to set our energy >into. I suggested that the research and development into genetics and >biotech of various kinds, was mainly about getting a handle on the life >processes (or life forces; speak: the etheric), rather than just on >manipulating a specific plant's gene pool or making lots of money through >genetic copyrights, patents and other forms of monopolies. I was hoping for >some reflective feedback - and still am. > >My hope was further, that we might look together at the potential >implications of our biodynamic work as a counterbalance (specifically around >developing insight into life forces) to the GMO work being done. >Specifically, what kinds of work are you all doing around studying, >experiencing, working with the etheric forces? How is it that these >corporations and government agencies, universities and private companies are >spending these huge amounts of money on discovering how to plants >with materialistic means only? Are we able to develop new plants, healthier >plants, new varieties, etc. through other means? By working with spiritual, >rather than just material forces and substances? Can we begin to discuss >this part of biodyanmics? > >Curious, >Andrew Here's one spiritual lesson that slaps me in the face. The mind involuntarily rejects information that is contrary to its assumptions. One of the most telling assumptions pervading our world today is that the winning strategies are uniformity and competition. We see it in the world of sports with teams all dressed in uniforms competing. We see it in our schools with all our standardized testing, uniform curricula and competition for top scores. We see it in the military, in the job place, in the supermarket and shopping mall, you name it. Yet, if we look at a fertile natural ecology we would see, could we only set this assumption aside, that the winning strategy is diversity and cooperation. We would see it in sports if we played chess with the masters, or in education in a Waldorf school, etc. One of the key things that makes America as successful as it is (if not good, at least better than most) is we have such a diverse population and more often than not we cooperate (though nowhere near as well as they cooperate in Japan). It should be easy to see that almost all plant breeding (not Alan Kapuler's) is done with an eye to this pan cultural assumption that the winning strategies are uniformity and competition. F1 hybrids were a big step in this direction of uniformity and competition, and surely this was a winning strategy for a number of companies and their investors, though a losing strategy for most of us. GMOs, however, really is a million rocket salute to the twin Gods of uniformity and competition. As such it will really land us in quicksand and that will be a teriffic spiritual lesson. As for whether we are able to develop new plants, healthier plants, new varieties, etc. through other means? Surely! Many folks seem to forget, perhaps some WANT to forget, that in 1987 Barbara McClintock won the Nobel prize in genetics for proving that corn mutated in every generation. "Well, that's only corn. That's not anything else." said the many, fearful of their jobs and the overthrow of their life's work. For several reasons the open pollenated Indian corn McClintock used was a very easy plant to prove that mutation, most of it benign or even beneficial, occurs with every new generation. But Rudolf Steiner in lecture two says in effect that this is the situation with all plants, and we may presume all organisms. Folks producing GMOs and patenting organisms involuntarily reject this information seeing as how it is contrary to their assumptions. They don't even notice the information. After all, if they saw things as they truly are it would blow their whole game, and would give them an inkling of what a scarry Pandora's Box they are lifting the lid of. The spiritual lesson here? One of the more valuable things we can do spiritually is to examine our assumptions and start discarding, cleaning up, opening our minds and utilizing our senses--all of them. Regards, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 03:15:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA24696 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:15:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA15137; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08114 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:07:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10NW07-0006Ts-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:09:52 -0800 Message-ID: <36F094A3.75F28610@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:52:35 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Spring Equinox (and a bit - way - OFF) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 164 To Pandora-Liz So my friend you think you have it good that's what your little poem gave to understood! When here, we bask in snow and cold another winterstorm shall come, I'm told! However, people, snow is fun for those that speed donw speedy run' I wouldn't want to have your sun I would all day just sweat and moan. We've been assured you lazy .ums That I must use my largest drums To get you out of bed and sleep And throw you into water deep You lazy pair shall awaken like us all as arrogance arrives before a fall...... All the best Ferdinand (visited by Deborah Byron!! hahahahaha, I have it much better than you guys) PatandLiz@aol.com wrote: > Signs of Spring at 21 degrees N: > > in January.... > The cardinals began their mating songs. > Mango trees didn't bloom as they usually do. > Time to plant cucumbers, summer squash, and snow peas. > > in February.... > Cardinal's songs increase. > Not as rainy as January. > Shower tree pods start dropping. > November pole beans finally finished. > > in March.... > Birdsong all day long. > Begin harvesting cukes, peas and squash. > Some days the sun is uncomfortable between 12 and 2. > Chickens really start to "crank." > Weed and grass growth accelerate. > > Ke'anae, Maui. ' 99 > Patrick -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 03:15:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA24705 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:15:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA15302; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:04:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08533 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10NW6d-0003vH-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:16:36 -0800 Message-ID: <36F09624.1256520A@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:59:00 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Imants spader plow->Humus Management References: <36EEF5A7.3A18F28F@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 165 Dear Pam, The Roto-Tiller smashes the entire infrastructure of the soil (worms, soil bacteria, plants - you name it) and they get totally mixed into a dust-bowl. Whereas the soil structure after plowing or truning by spade leaves the soil (especially clay) with a somewhat intact soil structure. I would ask you to run a test. Dig two to three rows by hand and then, next to it, run the Roto-Tiller. And now, observe. Don't seed, do not do anything to this part of the garden. And, please, report back. We cannot intelectually understand the different methods. We have to DO IT and observe. That's the American way of life, isn't it. WE Europeans would give (now) one hundred theories. All the best Ferdinand Pam DeTray wrote: > Allan, > > Could you backtrack a bit for those of us unfamiliar with this subject? > I think I understand what the basic principle is here, but I don't > understand WHY a person wants to spade clumps instead of rototilling to > aerate? Is it to protect the bio-organisms in the soil? Is it to prevent > erosion, or soil blowaway? Does a spader create something more like a > raised bed? > (I did look at the site you posted last Christmas on the Tortella > spader, and wish you could post that URL again.) > > Two of us are doing all the work by hand here this spring, and though > I'm dreading the strain on my back, I won't miss the noise of the > tiller. But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, "What if someone > wanted to start up a large market garden to feed 50 local families?" > It's all hard clay around here, and you would need a plow. Is that more > like tilling or spading? > > Thanks, > Pam DeTray > psdetray@cyberhighway.net > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > > >BD-NOW Readers, > > > > > >The original thread was No till versus Double digging. > > >In the ensuing discussion, mechanical spaders were > > >mentioned as viable implements at the commercial scale. > > > > IMANTS does not make a spader, they only SAY they make a spader. What they > > sell is simply an overpriced 'rotivator.' It is very important for anyone > > looking for a spading machine to realize that the IMANTS product is simply > > that: a product. The Imants machine (a 'dutch spader') pales in comparison > > to an Italian spader. WE A/B'd these machines at the 1997 Mid-Atlantic > > Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference. We purchased the Tortella > > (Italian) spader as a result. Once again: Italian spaders 'spade' the soil > > but the Imants machine churns it. (Not only that, it incorporates organic > > materials too deeply in the soil. > > > > -Allan Balliett > > igg@igg.com -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 03:16:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA24723 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:16:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA15402; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:05:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.igrin.co.nz (mail.igrin.co.nz [202.49.244.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09496 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:28:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (whan-038.igrin.co.nz [202.49.246.138]) by mail.igrin.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04161 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:28:04 +1300 Message-ID: <003201be7107$5da8b5c0$8af631ca@oemcomputer> From: "g&y bodle" To: Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:56:05 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 166 Dear Andrew, Good point, I agree that there must be a BD counterbalance. As ever time limits the extent to which I feel I can contribute in depth, but I do believe that there are insights and indications in chap 1&2 that give a glimmer of the remedial possibilities that BD has to offer. (I am still going to follow this up for you Andrew- I havent forgotten!) We have to investigate the means by which life is a formative expression in the physical realm of the wholly cosmic/spiritual. I believe the models exist in those chapters. Cheers Gareth Bodle Whangarei NZ ----Original Message----- From: Dr. Andrew Lorand To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thursday, 18 March 1999 1:09 PM Subject: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives >Friends, > >I started this thread with the hope that folks would contribute to the >discussion around the notion, that somehow there must be a spiritual lesson >in the GMO story - AND - hopefully something positive to set our energy >into. I suggested that the research and development into genetics and >biotech of various kinds, was mainly about getting a handle on the life >processes (or life forces; speak: the etheric), rather than just on >manipulating a specific plant's gene pool or making lots of money through >genetic copyrights, patents and other forms of monopolies. I was hoping for >some reflective feedback - and still am. > >My hope was further, that we might look together at the potential >implications of our biodynamic work as a counterbalance (specifically around >developing insight into life forces) to the GMO work being done. >Specifically, what kinds of work are you all doing around studying, >experiencing, working with the etheric forces? How is it that these >corporations and government agencies, universities and private companies are >spending these huge amounts of money on discovering how to plants >with materialistic means only? Are we able to develop new plants, healthier >plants, new varieties, etc. through other means? By working with spiritual, >rather than just material forces and substances? Can we begin to discuss >this part of biodyanmics? > >Curious, >Andrew > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 06:21:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA26017 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA26192; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA26076 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:01:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.82] (client-151-196-125-82.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.82]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA27961 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:03:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903181103.GAA27961@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:53:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Off: request Swiss CSA contacts From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 167 Thank you so much Ferdinand. Best, Steven ---------- >From: Ferdinand Vondruska >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: Re: Off: request Swiss CSA contacts >Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999, 7:43 PM > > Dear Steven, > I have contacted Demeter Germany to see whether they can give me the Demeter > Switzerland address. Thereafter, I shall forward it to you. Regards Ferdinand > > Steven McFadden wrote: > >> Hi - >> >> A US reporter has contacted me seeking leads to CSA farms in Switzerland. >> She is planning a trip there in the Autumn, and wants to write something on >> the subject. >> >> If you have any contacts in Switzerland, or promising leads, please let me >> know by e-mail and I will forward the messages on to her. >> >> With thanks, Steven > > -- > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-= > -=-=-= > > C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO > AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR > WORLD > FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 06:21:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA26025 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:21:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA26134; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:02:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA26071 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:01:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.82] (client-151-196-125-82.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.82]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA27939 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:03:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903181103.GAA27939@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:52:50 -0500 Subject: Re: OFF: request Swiss CSA contacts From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 168 Thank you Andrew. I have already forwarded your good lead. Best, Steven ---------- >From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" >To: >Subject: OFF: request Swiss CSA contacts >Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999, 7:19 PM > > Steven, > > Write the Goetheanum, specifically the Agriculture Department, Natural > Sciences Section - try perhaps Mr. Markus Huter and ask for addresses, > numbers, etc. of community farms in CH. science_goetheanum@compuserve.com is > the email address. > > Cheers, > Andrew > > > >>Hi - >> >>A US reporter has contacted me seeking leads to CSA farms in Switzerland. >>She is planning a trip there in the Autumn, and wants to write something on >>the subject. >> >>If you have any contacts in Switzerland, or promising leads, please let me >>know by e-mail and I will forward the messages on to her. >> >>With thanks, Steven >> > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 07:11:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26535 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:11:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA29150; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:59:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from cask.force9.net (cask.force9.net [195.166.128.29]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA28867 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:58:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903181158.GAA28867@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 20783 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1999 12:06:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coors.free-online.net) (212.56.108.80) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 1999 12:06:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 18693 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1999 11:53:04 -0000 Received: from 497.hiper04.access.free-online.net (HELO ?212.56.117.241?) (212.56.117.241) by coors.free-online.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 1999 11:53:04 -0000 Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Thu, 18 Mar 99 12:02:33 +0000 x-sender: elementalsols@mail.free-online.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Mark Moodie To: "BD list Postings" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id GAA28869 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 169 Dr. Andrew Lorand wrote;- >I started this thread with the hope that folks would contribute to the >discussion around the notion, that somehow there must be a spiritual lesson >in the GMO story - AND - hopefully something positive to set our energy >into. The BD seed breeding is the other side of the GM coin. There are new forces available for this since the end of Kali Yuga (see lecture II) and we cannot expect that only the 'goodies' will recognise this. We need to use the cunning of the Monsantos and change it to idealistic insight, the greed of the Monsantos and compost it into good basic research for future BD seed breeders, and the energy of the Monsantos we need to use ourselves. I talked to a farmer at Botton last week who was in our seed breeding group since the Wilhelm-Schmidts talked to us 10 years ago. He sold UK£10,000 of BD seeds last year! Ths is slow and careful work. GM has really flushed out the materialists who have been bashful before. They are saying boldly that life is a epiphenomenon of chemistry, plants are DNA plus NPK. They are likely to be strong for a long time but at least they are fully out in thte open and ultimately vulnerable to those who can think for themselves. I do think this GM work and computers are the major symptoms of the 1998 events. It s another crossroads - a 'threshold' defined as a line beynd which is the unknown but we have to cross it to grow and things will never be the same again after making the crossing. Mark Moodie mark.es@aecb.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 07:50:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26783 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:50:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01232; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:32:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01015 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:30:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-121.s58.as1.hgt.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.143.121]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id HAA18847 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:32:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F0F1C2.EBC7AF51@erols.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:29:54 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: raw food BDers? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 170 Intergalactic Garage wrote: > I think that Rex Harrill, of this list, is an authority on this [raw eating]. Jeez, Allan---an "authority?" Well, I'm a simple student and must decline the honor. However, I do follow the 'raw eating' newsgroups and will be happy to pass subscription info to anyone interested. At the moment I'm trying to digest (pun) Andy Lorand's comments yesterday about Steiner's views on the subject. Regards, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 07:56:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26838 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01691; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:38:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01418 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.116] (pm3shep2-163-77.intrepid.net [209.190.163.77]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA30397; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:38:33 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:40:18 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Reader Beware: Suffering the Illusion of Empowerment Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 171 Reprinted from "Internet: The Illusion of Empowerment" by Jerry Mander (Appearing in "Whole Earth Winter 98 from Whole Earth 888 732-6739 or on major newstands now. Jerry Mander is the author of 'In the Absence of the Sacred' and 'Four Arguments Against Television.' He is a profound thinker, one of the few of we fish willing to question water. -AB) Technospiritualism, though I favor the older kind that doesn't require mediation by machines. As for the idea that the old political center has been wiped out by our PCs and email, and that web politics has brought us a computerenhanced democracy, let me ask this: Shouldn't we call it "virtual democracy"? I think so. Because somebody forgot to tell the transnational corporations in Tokyo, New York, Brussels, and Geneva that the real power was no longer in the center, that it was now out of their control. Two hundred corporations now control twenty-eight per cent of global economic activity; twenty-four corporations are among the hundred largest economies of the world, far larger than many countries. The computer has had a crucial role to play in this, as have the big new global trade agreements, which have deregulated all controls on international banking, investment, and capital movement. Corporations are now free to use the new global technologies to move their assets around the world, instantaneously, at the touch of a key, without the ability of nation-states to observe, control, or slow them down. Some people understand this, notably among the right wing. Dr. Joe Cobb of the Heritage Foundation once told me that because of technology, corporate-led globalization is "inevitable." It can't be stopped (presumably because technology itself "can't be stopped," yet one more paradigm worth examining). So, what kind of revolution do we have here? To use terms like "empowerment" to summarize the effects of computers is to badly misrepresent what power is about in a real political and economic context. Computers may help individuals feet powerful or competent and surely they are useful; nobody denies this. But this does nothing whatever to balance the ultimate drift of the technology, to help gather staggering new power in the hands of giant corporations, banks, and global trade bureaucracies, all made possible by these same instruments. In my view, computer technology will eventually be understood by all of us, as it already is by the right wing, as the greatest centralizing technology ever invented. For while we sit happily at our PCs editing our copy, sending our emails, designing our little web pages, transnational corporations are using their global networks twenty-four hours a day, at a scale and a speed that makes our level of empowerment seem pathetic by comparison. The giant transnationats of today simply could not exist without the global computer networks. When they push their computer keys, they cause hundreds of billions of dollars in resources to move from, say, a bank in Geneva to Sarawak, resulting in a forest cut down. Or else they push a key and buy billions of dollars of a national currency, only to sell it again a few hours later, leaving countries' economies in shambles, and populations devastated. That is information with power. Information by itself is for the disempowered; and the Internet is our opiate. The question we have to learn to ask about new technology is not whether it benefits us, but whom does it benefit most? For despite its usefulness to us in many activities, the electronic revolution has far more to offer the largest enterprises on the planet than it does to you and me; we suffer a net loss from its emergence as the new global nervous system. Reprinted from "Internet: The Illusion of Empowerment" by Jerry Mander (Appearing in "Whole Earth Winter 98 from Whole Earth 888 732-6739 or on major newstands now.) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 08:25:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA27190 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:25:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA05005; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:15:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04729 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:12:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009FCFAB@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 8:15:28 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 18 Mar 99 08:15:24 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 18 Mar 99 08:15:17 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:15:13 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Spring Equinox Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990317110215.00930670@mail.kootenay.com> In-reply-to: <4.1.19990317110215.00930670@mail.kootenay.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 172 I just want to mention how sweet and soft the air smells here in Athens, GA lately (just in case you don't know, it has been freezing quite often up till now and we even had snow a couple weeks ago!) And being a newcomer here, I'm thrilled with all the interesting greens and flowers that are popping up voluntarily all over my front yard (don't even mention a lawn mower to me!). And my yard is alive with the hussle and bussle of birds and squirills (sp?). It's so interesting to be passing a Spring in a new place. Anita > Listfolk: > > The Spring Equinox happens Saturday, March 20, 5:45 PM our time here in > British Columbia. > What signs of Spring have we all been observing? Never mind bragging, you > guys south of the 30 degrees Latitude...I know it's been Spring there for > some time. > > Signs of Spring here at Aurora Farm: > > * Lilacs, serviceberry, Balm of Gilead buds swelling; > * Crocus and snowdrops blooming; > * Robins and Towhees singing; > * A bald eagle soaring over our hilltop yesterday; > * A couple of nights lately when it didn't drop below freezing... > > Ahhhhhh! > > Woody > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 09:29:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28299 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:29:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10031; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:12:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09747 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:09:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.218] (client-151-196-125-218.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.218]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01194 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:14:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903181414.JAA01194@smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:12:07 -0500 Subject: Re: GEO Consensus - BDNow From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id JAA09752 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 173 Dear Colleagues, As suggested by Jane Sherry, in the wake of the New Moon here is draft #2 of a BD Now consensus statement on GEOs. Not too much input yet. I've lifted some thoughts from related threads on this list. But I still feel we are capable of greater spiritual insight into these questions. By all means indulge your inclinations to propose, rewrite, revise and counter-propose. The thread will remain open for change and addition until April 15. Best, Steven GEO Consensus - BD Now - Draft #2 3/18/99 We, the undersigned participants in the BD-Now electronic mail group, make the following collective statement about genetically engineered organisms, whether seeds, plants or animals: We understand that a unifying wisdom spreads throughout nature, and that this wisdom has led to the gradual evolution of a multitude of healthy living organisms which populate the earth, including human beings. We recognize that human beings are in a complex physical and spiritual relationship with all of these organisms, and that our mutual survival, health, and evolution depends upon the integrity of these relationships. This wisdom of nature - understood by some as the wisdom of Spirit - far surpasses the accumulated data on which GEO experimentation and propagation are founded . Yet this wisdom is systematically overlooked in the large organizations and laboratories which are increasingly engineering the gene pool and thereby radically altering the basic character of plant and animal nature, and of human food. We recognize that: … Little is known about the possible short- and long-term effects of GEOs on human health and the environment. … There are profound risks to animals and humans -- such as the spread of toxins, allergies or resistance to antibiotics -- from the ingestion of genetically modified food. … Genetically engineered organisms threaten to overtake, displace or modify native species, reducing the variety of the gene pool and increasing, rather than reducing, the perceived need for herbicides, fungicides or other toxic treatments. … We are deeply concerned about the impact on the environment including pollen drift contamination of organic and Biodynamic crops from genetically engineered crops. Once these genes are released they cannot be recalled. … Genetically engineered organisms could potentially cause profound mutations in the genetic structure of plant, animal, and human realms -- and thereby dull or even destroy the patterns and impulses set in motion by the wisdom of Spirit. The introduction of genetically modified foodstuffs without proper and appropriate labeling is foolish, potentially dangerous, immoral, illicit and unacceptable . We stand in unified opposition to the disrespectful and fundamentally anti-democratic impulse of business and science to rush these experiments out into the natural world, and into the food chain for humans and animals with no notice, no debate, and no choice. #### END #### From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 10:28:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29690 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:28:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18435; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:10:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18236 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:08:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d143.infoserve.net [199.175.157.143]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA06175; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:14:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004701be7151$9ede21c0$8f9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Cc: Subject: Fw: OFF/ GE Canola / GEN3-17 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:11:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 174 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 3:44 AM Subject: GEN3-17 > >March 17, 1999 > >Canada Approved Genetically Modified Canola Tolerant to an Herbicide >Causing Birth Defects > >by Joe Cummins, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Genetics, University of Western >Ontario >e-mail: jcummins@julian.uwo.ca > >Canada has approved genetically engineered canola patented by the >multinational chemical company Rhone Poulenc for their herbicides Bromoxynl >and Ioxynil. The herbicide Bromoxynil has a history of controversy in its >use after it was found that it caused birth defects in rats and mice. > >In the United States, the use of Bromoxynl on cotton was a source of >controversy. However, in Canada (where government departments of >Agriculture and Health take multimillion dollar payments from chemical >companies) the herbicide was quietly approved and used extensively to >control weeds in grain crops that are innately tolerant to the herbicide. > >The herbicide Bromoxynl is sprayed on the Bromoxynl-resistant canola. As >the herbicide is very persistent in treated soil, when farmers rotate >crops, Bromoxynl residues can accumulate in grains rotated on the same >land. > >Residues of the teratogenic herbicide are likely to accumulate in the >harvested canola oil and in the cattle and pig food from the residues >recovered from pressing canola seed to recover oil. Such pressing >residues have also been used as fertilizer on organic farms, a procedure >that should be reviewed on the basis of transferring genetic modifications >and teratogenic herbicides. > >The journal Biotechnology noted that there was a very high likelihood >that the herbicide tolerant gene would be transferred to unpatented canola >and to at least seven wild plant species but the transfer to wild plant was >a minimal threat as the resistant species could be controlled by other >herbicides as they became weeds. > >The impact of use of the genetically modified crop on biodiversity was >given brief discussion with no data and no fundamental knowledge of >biodiversity. > >Another genetically modified canola, Liberty Ready canola, also employs a >highly teratogenic herbicide glufosinate. Importers of canola oil or animal >feed from pressed seed should be made aware of these developments and that >the products are not labeled. Clearly the Canadian approval process bears >the stamp of the millions of dollars from chemical companies. > >The information on approval of Bromoxynil resistant canola was taken from >Plant Biotechnology Canada August 19,1998 > >.......... > >ASHDOWN URGES SPECIAL WTO GROUP ON GENETIC FOODS GENEVA, > >March 11 (Reuters) - Britain's outgoing Liberal Democratic leader Paddy >Ashdown said on Thursday the controversial issue of genetically-modified >crops should be part of the next global round of trade liberalisation >talks. > >Speaking after talks at the World Trade Organisation (WTO) and with trade >ambassadors of the European Union and the United States, he warned tha >t the issue could become a "huge problem" that could poison relations >between the two powers. >"The WTO regulations were not set up to handle GMOs," he told a news >conference, using the acronym for genetically-modified organisms which are >rapidly emerging as a potentially explosive topic in international trade. > >........ > > >_________________________________________________________ >Richard Wolfson, PhD >Consumer Right to Know Campaign, >for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term >Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, >500 Wilbrod Street >Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 >tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 >email: rwolfson@concentric.net > >Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html >contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous >genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering >news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above >address. Or see website for details. >__________________________________________________________ >__________________________________________________________ > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 10:45:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00143 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:45:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA22519; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:34:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22187 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:33:09 -0500 (EST) From: JHatf18942@aol.com Received: from JHatf18942@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hKOUa04840 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:34:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <163fa8f.36f11d0e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:34:38 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 175 I apologize if I missed something but could someone fill me in on horn clay? Thanks Jeff Hatfield From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 12:09:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02589 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:09:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05161; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:59:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05058 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:58:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp50.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.150]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA26602 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:58:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <004e01be7160$7a883ae0$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Astro-Agriculture Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:57:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 176 Hi everyone.. Thought I'd pose some thoughts & questions to those sky-gazing farmers amongst us. Here, dairy farmers have just been slammed with a record drop in the Basic Price Formula (BFP) for February. Since I am a student of the stars, and the cows themselves, the milk production & pricing seems to follow as oppty. to gain further insights into this mysterious cycle. (Sorry, I'm in tropical mode, but am a neophyte, and I do pay homage to the siderealist system, by planting by their calendar:-)) The likes of this "crash" have not been seen since 5/5/91. In comparing the two dates, both times Saturn was in early degrees of fixed signs & within a wide 7-degree orb of hard aspect to cardinal moons (3/5/99 - Saturn @ 0 Taurus opposed a 22-degree Libran moon. On 5/5/91 Saturn @ 6 Aquarius conjuncted a 29-degree Capricorn moon. Both times the aspects were at wide 7-degree orbs and applying. Interestingly, this most recent drop is the largest month-to-month decline ever, but is the 7th lowest price paid this decade. The govt. is stepping in with a Dairy Income Loss Assistance program, but the payment plan is fuzzy & no one will be seeing any real cash for quite awhile. As a result, expect to see MORE small family farms bite the dust, as it is they that are closest to living from milk check to milk check. This reminds me of Steven's note about Saturn entering very earthy, very agricultural Taurus, and the struggles we can expect to see. The other thing that is striking to me, is the recent movement of Neptune (chemicals, delusion) into scientific, intellectual, detached Aquarius. This seems to me to be the perfect setting for Monsanto & GE to challenge the truly traditional earthy agricultural methods (and in fact the actual 90-degree square that is about to occur between Neptune in Aquarius & Saturn in Taurus portends such a challenge!) Clearly Monsanto & its scientists are deceiving (possibly even self-delusion, that this technology will, in fact, feed the world - again, a humanitarian (Aquarian) representation, and much of the world is deluded, or apathetic at best. One more thing... I was really happy (finally a wonderful answer!) to read Glen's post to Parker about Tropical charts representing a more mundane view of an individual, and sidereal charts a clearer inner goal (did I understand this correctly?) then perhaps there is some insight to be gained into a sidereal assessment of what's happening w/agriculture? Because perhaps that is where the answer lies...what is happening here on a collective, inner level? So is this too weird? What say you spiritual, star-watching servants of the earth? Searching, Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 12:40:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03292 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:40:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA08311; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:23:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07954 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:21:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max1-6.stc.net [208.210.131.6]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21171 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:24:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004c01be7101$1220d480$9f242599@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:00:32 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: soil testing Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 177 Andrew wrote: > >Dear Erica, Allan and list friends, > >Soil testing is, by its very nature, built upon the presumption that what >you find in the soil chemically is what is available to the plants - which >could be (and often is) in many cases far from the truth. Usually, soil >tests verify in more or less sophisticated manner, the presence of certain >chemicals, compounds, the pH level, etc. in your soils. This is for sure a >starting point. But, for anyone who has gotten soil tests back that say >there is plenty of this or that in the soil and then received leaf and fruit >analysis that said no such correlation was to be found in the upper parts of >your crop, you know that what is in the soil is not always available to the >plant. (This is a common experience.) So grower beware! It takes more than >just presence (of a chemical) to be a nutrient. Chemicals in most cases need >to be bound in organic compounds to be available and often need to have just >the right moisture content, temperature, etc. to be available. Many >conditions working together. Even with our more modern and complex >technology, we are just at the beginning of being able to track available >nutrients. Its still pretty much a guessing game. Do testing, but don't hold >your breath. It gives you an outline, no more. > >Furthermore, in biodynamics we are more concerned with the process, lets say >the calcium process for example, than the actual calcium as a chemical >element. We are looking at the calcium as a part of a living, changing, >dynamic equillibrium in the soil and, more importantly, as a part of an >overall set of processes that engender growth and reproduction (in the case >of calcim). We dont just add calcium to the soil, but make every attempt to >stimulate the exisiting calcium (and related processes) in the soil through >our general farm management (crop rotations, mulching, cover crops, tillage >practices, etc.), fertilization plan (composting, liquid manures, manure >teas, etc.) and specialized field sprays (so-called #500 in the case of >calcium). We try and stimulate the existing, add gently and moreover, work >homeopathically with the substances. This means we are not only not >interested particularily with the presence of any given chemical element >(but rather the process, e.g. how the element is flowing through towards its >tasks), but we are also not so interested in quantities. We work with highly >diluted and/or potentized minute (and especially prepared) quantities of >substances to stimulate the (calcium) processes in the soil and crops. This >too does not speak particularilly well of soil testing. The is more >to be found in our own abilities to see the calcium process at work in the >crops and to know if it is weak or strong and how to encourage (or >discourage) it as needed and in an appropriate manner. (Not talking >clairvoyance here, but the common ability to notice the effects of the >calcium processes in the shapes, colors, growth patterns of the plants.) > >So, soil testing? Well, I suggest getting tested when you start your farm or >garden and get it done by a soil lab that your extension office recommends >(usually local or regional). This will generally improve accuracy since >travel time is a factor. Then do it again 5 years later. And so on. Better >yet, spend much more time, effort and resources on developing an >understanding of the nitrogen, calcium, silica, etc. and how to >read them in the book of nature. This will be more helpful to day to day >growing than any soil test ever was. Well stated, Andrew! What you say about the processes, and working with stimulating the processes rather than focusing on the amounts of this or that present, cuts to the core of biodynamics--which, after all, is concerned with life processes, not dead weights. It took me minutes lost in admiration before I realized there was something to add. One of the most crucial oversights in biodynamics as it is practiced today--and this stems from the spiritual problem most of us have of congratulating ourselves that we know so much when we ought to focus on how much MORE we could learn--is we talk about the silica process and the lime process and neglect the importance of clay. The agriculture course states the importance of clay in chapter two. Of course this slim volume of lectures uses a paragraph or two to mention a core idea that deserves volumes and lifetimes of investigation. Here are some pertinent quotes: "However else clay may be described, however else we must treat it so that it becomes fertile--all this is of secondary importance; the primary thing we need to know is that clay promotes the upward stream of the cosmic factor." (page 31) and: "Let me remark here that if we are dealing with a soil that does not carry these influences upward during the winter as it should, it is good to furnish the soil with some clay, the dosage of which I will indicate later." (page 33) Later the recommendations for making preparations for the lime polarity (Horn manure, BD 500) and the silica polarity (Horn silica, BD 501) are given in chapter fou. However, the recommendations for enlivening clay are forgotten. It is a peculiar thing, though illustrative of human nature, that 75 years have gone by and BD practice throughout the world has worked with 500 and 501 stimulating the lime and silica processes, yet ever so little has been done to wake up the clay process. And yet enlivened clay is the key to preparing the soil "to conducting the crystaline force upward, for the plant growth above the earth's surface" (page 33). If agricultural practice was rated on a scale of 1 to 100, our conventional neighbors would rate about 2 or 3, and we've congratulated ourselves on our 8 or 9 rating that we are 3 or 4 times better than conventional--when we should be focusing on how far we have to go. I keep coming back to Pfeiffer's preface to the blue-bound edition previous to the modern Creeger/Gardener translation: "'How can it happen that the spiritual impulse, and especially the inner schooling, for which you are constantly providing stimulus and guidance bear so little fruit? Why do the people concerned give so little evidence of spiritual experience, in spite of all their efforts? Why, worst of all, is the will for action, for the carrying out of these spiritual impulses, so weak?' I was particularly anxious to get an answer to the question as to how one could build a bridge to active participation and the carrying out of spiritual intentions without being pulled off the right path by personal ambition, illusions and petty jealousies; for these were the negative qualities Rudolf Steiner had named as the main inner hindrances. Then came the surprising and thought-provoking answer: 'This is a problem of nutrition. Nutrition as it is today does not supply the strength necessary for manifesting the spirit in physical life. A bridge can no longer be built from thinking to will and action. Food plants no longer contain the forces people need for this.'" When one considers the glacial progress of biodynamics over the past 75 years and the extent to which personal ambitions, illusions and petty jealousies have gotten in the way I'm afraid this shows how inadequate BD food has been in nourishing spiritual progress. That is, the current state of the art of biodynamics isn't up to the job yet. Come on, folks. There isn't much time left. Don't you feel an urgency? There's a crying need for biodynamic HORN CLAY. We can't just wake up our lime and silica. That's like having a teeter totter with no balance point in the middle--it's not a good game. We've got to wake up our clay. Now I realize there's always, in any profession, a tendency on the part of many to "stick to the book." So there will be much criticism and rejection of this idea with phrases like "Steiner didn't give any recommendations for horn clay." and "That's not the way I learned biodynamics." and even "That's no longer biodynamics." To which I respond, my mother could bake a German chocolate cake to perfection, melting her chocolate in a double boiler with butter, measuring the exact amount of this and that, whipping up that lemony/vanilla corn starch filler between the layers and that tasty outside glaze coating with egg yolk, coconut and chopped walnuts in it. The recipe is on the chocolate package if you buy the right kind, and she was a good cook with a recipe. However, when I became a chef on the oil rigs I used to make this kind of cake using hand and eye to measure things since the consistency of ingredients tends to vary somewhat anyway and I made bigger cakes in bigger pans than the recipe called for. I used sourdough batter and some freshly crushed cardamom seeds, and it's amazing the rich moistness and delicate, almost minty spiciness this brought to the cake. It was creative fun to make cakes that the drill crews, mud loggers, roughnecks, etc. would (not quite) die for. We sorely need to take biodynamics out of the days of following rote formulas into a much subtler, artistic, creative mode. It will require a much greater understanding, as well as a willingness to use some new ingredients suggested though not prescribed back at the birth of BD. Then we'll see BD farms move forward to 30 or 40 or even 80 or 90 on our scale of 1 to 100. We'll have to raise children on this superfood for the full effects to show up in terms of manifesting the spiritual in physical life. So that means there's a lot of lead time before we fully see where this will take us, and there's no time to lose getting started. Mankind could have a lot in store for it. Isn't life inspiring? Warmest regards, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 12:52:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03569 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:52:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA10388; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:35:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09770 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:32:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.141] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.141]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8S00473W5FNU@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:20:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:23:35 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) In-reply-to: <163fa8f.36f11d0e@aol.com> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id MAA09780 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 178 >I apologize if I missed something but could someone fill me in on horn clay? > >Thanks >Jeff Hatfield For Sure you have: Greg Willis is the guy responsible for the creation of this new BD prep that He named Horn Clay. For details on how to make the prep, when to bury the horns and how to use it, Greg posted a number of times the info to this list, (the last time back in November 1998). My suggestion is to do a search in the archives of BD-Now using the Horn Clay argument. I do not know if Greg has any legal protection or right on that info, but certainly he is the moral owner of the concept and the creator of the theoretical framework. Hope this helps. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 13:38:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04888 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:38:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA19887; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA19280 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:24:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max16-33.stc.net [208.210.138.161]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29896 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:27:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <163fa8f.36f11d0e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:04:43 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 179 >I apologize if I missed something but could someone fill me in on horn clay? > >Thanks >Jeff Hatfield I imagine not much has been said about horn clay on this list. There are 4 possibilities in making horn clay. Summer (Spring to Fall) horn clay involves packing cow horns with clay and burying them from spring to fall. This will really wake up the clay in the soil making it a means of transport for silica forces moving upward into plants. Winter (Fall to Spring) horn clay is made by packing cow horns with clay and burying them from fall to spring. This stimulates clay's role in absorbing the crystalizing forces, carrying these crystalizing forces upward from deep down during the winter. This has an especially strong effect on plant growth. Guillermo writes: > >Greg Willis is the guy responsible for the creation of this new BD prep >that >He named Horn Clay. For details on how to make the prep, when to >bury the >horns and how to use it, Greg posted a number of times the info >to this list, >(the last time back in November 1998). My suggestion is to >do a search in the >archives of BD-Now using the Horn Clay argument. >I do not know if Greg has any legal protection or right on that info, but >>certainly he is the moral owner of the concept and the creator of the >>theoretical framework. The inspiration for Horn Clay comes out of the Agriculture Course with a discussion on pages 31 and 32 about the role of clay and the promise of giving recommendations for clay dosages later in the course--a promise that was not fulfilled. Nevertheless later in the course a discussion of making horn manure and horn silica, pages 70 through 74, points the way to making horn clay preparations. Greg is, so far as anyone I'm aware of knows, the first person to realize the crucial importance of horn clay and to make it and use it. My impression upon visiting a vinyard (Topolos, at the winery) in California treated with horn clay was that it brought together the lime and silica polarities and unified the life forces of the vinyard, providing a skin or outer membrane and strength to the sinews and connective tissues of the vine plot. It was an extraordinary experience, and I might add, VERY tasty grapes. For 75 years in biodynamics we have disjointedly treated the lime processes with 500 and the silica processes with 501 without having any similar treatment to unify and balance things. The metaphor I've been using to describe this deficiency is it's like having a seesaw on a playground without any support in the middle to provide balance and get things off the ground. Horn Clay stands in the middle between the lime and silica polarities. See a couple of my other recent posts on this subject. I might add that this past year I myself have been making horn clay and will make much more in the future. Moreover, Lorraine has had horn clay (courtesy of Greg Willis) cards made for homeopathic potentization with her Malcolm Rae radionic instrument and we are supplying horn clay reagents as part of the BD reagent package for every Cosmic Pipe we sell. While I stumbled across the idea of making horn clay a dozen years ago and discussed it with Hugh Courtney and others, I hardly dreamed of its importance, thinking it might just be a remedy for sandy soils with little clay such as we have in Florida. Well it is that, but such a thought was far from the full truth. What Steiner says on page 33 is ". . . if we are dealing with a soil that does not carry these influences upward during the winter as it should, it is good to furnish the soil with some clay, the dosage of which I will indicate later." Since the earth has continued going downhill more and more steeply since Steiner's death it is likely that horn clay should be used on soils of all types and on every BD farm in the world. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 13:57:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05936 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:57:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA22343; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:40:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21929 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:38:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max16-33.stc.net [208.210.138.161]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA02018 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:41:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004e01be7160$7a883ae0$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:18:44 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 180 So is this too weird? What say you spiritual, star-watching servants of the earth? Searching, Julie Julie, The idea that life on this planet is affected by the streams of life forces from both inner and outer planets, to say nothing of the Sun, and that this all works in the context of the widest reaches of the cosmos (via the constellations) is not wierd at all. It is what is happening. We fool ourselves into thinking we are independent of such things because we have a certain degree of emancipation from the rhythms and cycles. We think maybe the idea that the stars affect us is crackpot. But actually this is where life comes from and goes to and we are just fooling ourselves to think otherwise. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 13:59:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05989 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:59:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA22904; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:42:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22438 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:40:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A031BB@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:42:57 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 18 Mar 99 13:42:53 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 18 Mar 99 13:42:45 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:42:40 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture Priority: normal In-reply-to: <004e01be7160$7a883ae0$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <14DBBB1166@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 181 I don't get it. I just paid $2.99 for a half gallon of organic milk. That's enough to make anyone see stars! Anita > Hi everyone.. > > Thought I'd pose some thoughts & questions to those sky-gazing farmers > amongst us. Here, dairy farmers have just been slammed with a record drop in > the Basic Price Formula (BFP) for February. Since I am a student of the > stars, and the cows themselves, the milk production & pricing seems to > follow as oppty. to gain further insights into this mysterious cycle. > > (Sorry, I'm in tropical mode, but am a neophyte, and I do pay homage to the > siderealist system, by planting by their calendar:-)) > > The likes of this "crash" have not been seen since 5/5/91. In comparing the > two dates, both times Saturn was in early degrees of fixed signs & within a > wide 7-degree orb of hard aspect to cardinal moons (3/5/99 - Saturn @ 0 > Taurus opposed a 22-degree Libran moon. On 5/5/91 Saturn @ 6 Aquarius > conjuncted a 29-degree Capricorn moon. Both times the aspects were at wide > 7-degree orbs and applying. > > Interestingly, this most recent drop is the largest month-to-month decline > ever, but is the 7th lowest price paid this decade. The govt. is stepping in > with a Dairy Income Loss Assistance program, but the payment plan is fuzzy & > no one will be seeing any real cash for quite awhile. As a result, expect to > see MORE small family farms bite the dust, as it is they that are closest to > living from milk check to milk check. This reminds me of Steven's note about > Saturn entering very earthy, very agricultural Taurus, and the struggles we > can expect to see. > > The other thing that is striking to me, is the recent movement of Neptune > (chemicals, delusion) into scientific, intellectual, detached Aquarius. This > seems to me to be the perfect setting for Monsanto & GE to challenge the > truly traditional earthy agricultural methods (and in fact the actual > 90-degree square that is about to occur between Neptune in Aquarius & Saturn > in Taurus portends such a challenge!) Clearly Monsanto & its scientists are > deceiving (possibly even self-delusion, that this technology will, in fact, > feed the world - again, a humanitarian (Aquarian) representation, and much > of the world is deluded, or apathetic at best. > > One more thing... I was really happy (finally a wonderful answer!) to read > Glen's post to Parker about Tropical charts representing a more mundane view > of an individual, and sidereal charts a clearer inner goal (did I understand > this correctly?) then perhaps there is some insight to be gained into a > sidereal assessment of what's happening w/agriculture? Because perhaps that > is where the answer lies...what is happening here on a collective, inner > level? > > So is this too weird? What say you spiritual, star-watching servants of the > earth? > > Searching, > > Julie > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 14:09:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06199 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:09:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24674; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:52:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24587 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:51:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem6.digisys.net [205.138.110.55]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16461 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:54:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36F14C4F.58501ABE@digisys.net> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:56:15 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture References: <004e01be7160$7a883ae0$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 182 Hi Julie and All .... let me add some astrological notation to Julie's fine questions. Julie M. wrote: > Hi everyone.. > > Thought I'd pose some thoughts & questions to those sky-gazing farmers > amongst us. Here, dairy [Moon, Virgo] farmers [4th house, Saturn, Capricorn] > have just been slammed with a record drop [Saturn enters Taurus, transiting > Mars turns retrograde] in > the Basic Price Formula (BFP) for February. Since I am a student of the > stars, and the cows [Moon, 4th house] themselves, the milk [Moon, Cancer, 4th > house] production & pricing [mundane chart: 2]seems to > follow as oppty. to gain further insights into this mysterious cycle. > > (Sorry, I'm in tropical mode, but am a neophyte, and I do pay homage to the > siderealist system, by planting by their calendar:-)) > > The likes of this "crash" have not been seen since 5/5/91. In comparing the > two dates, both times Saturn was in early degrees of fixed signs & within a > wide 7-degree orb of hard aspect to cardinal moons (3/5/99 - Saturn @ 0 > Taurus opposed a 22-degree Libran moon. On 5/5/91 Saturn @ 6 Aquarius > conjuncted a 29-degree Capricorn moon. Both times the aspects were at wide > 7-degree orbs and applying. > > Interestingly, this most recent drop is the largest month-to-month decline > ever, but is the 7th lowest price paid this decade. The govt. [Sun, Leo, > Capricorn, 10th house] is stepping in > with a Dairy Income Loss Assistance program, but the payment plan is fuzzy & > no one will be seeing any real cash for quite awhile. As a result, expect to > see MORE small family farms bite the dust, as it is they that are closest to > living from milk check to milk check. This reminds me of Steven's note about > Saturn entering very earthy, very agricultural Taurus, and the struggles we > can expect to see. In the U.S. Chart (7/4/1776, 4:20pm LMT, Philadelphia, PA, Gemini Asc chart: Koch house system) transiting Neptune has just recently moved into the U.S. 3rd house. Neptune rules the U.S. 4th house and 16 degrees of the U.S. 3rd house. Positive Neptune words are empathy, sympathetic understanding, contemplative, Spirit. Not so positive Neptune words are: gullible, suspicious, taken advantage of, exploited, being imposed upon, used, misused, milked-dry, the gradual disappearance of something. Neptune in Aquarius on the positive side relates to noble aims and aspirations; on the negative side it is fraud, dissolving, vanishing, insincerity and the ability to easily influence others. The 3rd house involves information dissemination, contacts with the public and transportation of all sorts. The 4th house among other things is farming. Transiting Saturn is currently located in the U.S. 5th house (attitude or actions of the governing body), and on 4/25/99 (tropical) enters the U.S. 6th house (health conditions of the nation, inception of labor troubles and strikes). Wherever transiting Saturn resides there is a reduction, a down turn in things, belt-tightening time. Saturn is also an economic plant, and governs agriculture (along with the 4th house and Cancer). Saturn is co-ruler of the U.S. 2nd house (the values the government "subscribes to", what's important to the government, the means the government uses to obtain its "cash flow"). The upcoming square between transiting Neptune and transiting Saturn can mean many things. One of course being "tightening the screws" (Saturn) on farmers and agriculture in general by means of deluding (Neptune) the public (Moon) and agriculture that chemicals, Monsanto & GE are good for our health (transiting Saturn to the U.S. 6th house). Fortunately the square says "it won't be easy". A square says there's an obstacle and carries the energy of Mars. Transiting Mars stations retrograde today in Scorpio. Transiting Mars retrograde suggests there's a pause, stoppage, recess or lull in secret and behind-the-scenes activities of the government (U.S. 12th house). Mars rules 12 degrees of the U.S. 4th house (agriculture). Since transiting Mars retrograde is a reevaluation of a course of action or a cessation of interest, the previous drive and focus in what might have been important to the government undergoes a reversal of interest. Traditionally, Saturn rules Aquarius. That makes Saturn co-ruler of the U.S. 2nd house (what our government "buys into" for the sake of the economic bottom-line. As we said, Neptune is in Aquarius in the U.S. 3rd house. Saturn says "enough is enough." Neptune suggests where the deceptive and fraudulent information is coming from (U.S. 3rd). The square could potentially manifest as our government losing interest in backing the chemical companies for the sake of a buck. Pat Hironimus http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com > > > The other thing that is striking to me, is the recent movement of Neptune > (chemicals, delusion) into scientific, intellectual, detached Aquarius. This > seems to me to be the perfect setting for Monsanto & GE to challenge the > truly traditional earthy agricultural methods (and in fact the actual > 90-degree square that is about to occur between Neptune in Aquarius & Saturn > in Taurus portends such a challenge!) Clearly Monsanto & its scientists are > deceiving (possibly even self-delusion, that this technology will, in fact, > feed the world - again, a humanitarian (Aquarian) representation, and much > of the world is deluded, or apathetic at best. > > One more thing... I was really happy (finally a wonderful answer!) to read > Glen's post to Parker about Tropical charts representing a more mundane view > of an individual, and sidereal charts a clearer inner goal (did I understand > this correctly?) then perhaps there is some insight to be gained into a > sidereal assessment of what's happening w/agriculture? Because perhaps that > is where the answer lies...what is happening here on a collective, inner > level? > > So is this too weird? What say you spiritual, star-watching servants of the > earth? > > Searching, > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 14:12:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06303 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:12:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25212; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:55:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24766 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:52:48 -0500 (EST) From: JHatf18942@aol.com Received: from JHatf18942@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hSKKa20480 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:54:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:54:58 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 183 Excellent - Thanks Hugh and Guillermo for bringing me up to speed. Greetings from the U.P. Jeff Hatfield From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 14:13:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06352 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25357; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:56:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25084 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:54:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A03626@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:57:21 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 18 Mar 99 13:57:17 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 18 Mar 99 13:57:01 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:56:57 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: OFF: mtg at Hugh's Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <004c01be7101$1220d480$9f242599@oemcomputer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <15189F5D4E@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 184 So, all in favor of getting together at Hugh's place for German chocolate cake say "ay." AYYYYYYYYYYYYY! ; )Anita > To which I respond, my mother could bake a German chocolate cake to > perfection, melting her chocolate in a double boiler with butter, measuring > the exact amount of this and that, whipping up that lemony/vanilla corn > starch filler between the layers and that tasty outside glaze coating with > egg yolk, coconut and chopped walnuts in it. The recipe is on the chocolate > package if you buy the right kind, and she was a good cook with a recipe. > > However, when I became a chef on the oil rigs I used to make this kind of > cake using hand and eye to measure things since the consistency of > ingredients tends to vary somewhat anyway and I made bigger cakes in bigger > pans than the recipe called for. I used sourdough batter and some freshly > crushed cardamom seeds, and it's amazing the rich moistness and delicate, > almost minty spiciness this brought to the cake. It was creative fun to > make cakes that the drill crews, mud loggers, roughnecks, etc. would (not > quite) die for. > > We sorely need to take biodynamics out of the days of following rote > formulas into a much subtler, artistic, creative mode. It will require a > much greater understanding, as well as a willingness to use some new > ingredients suggested though not prescribed back at the birth of BD. Then > we'll see BD farms move forward to 30 or 40 or even 80 or 90 on our scale > of 1 to 100. We'll have to raise children on this superfood for the full > effects to show up in terms of manifesting the spiritual in physical life. > So that means there's a lot of lead time before we fully see where this > will take us, and there's no time to lose getting started. > > Mankind could have a lot in store for it. Isn't life inspiring? > > Warmest regards, > > > > > Hugh Lovel > Blairsville, Georgia > > "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. > If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. > Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting > that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 14:22:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06637 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:22:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28045; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:10:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27936 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:10:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp5.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.105]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA19535 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:10:47 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <002401be7172$e6d9dac0$694b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:09:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 185 Anita wrote: "I don't get it. I just paid $2.99 for a half gallon of organic milk. That's enough to make anyone see stars!" Anita Hi Anita! Organic milk isn't tied to the BFP (Thank goodness), which certainly creates some incentive to produce it. But even if you were buying conventional milk (blechh!) you wouldn't be seeing a big drop in retail prices. Hugh, being versed in the agri-political machine, would know more about who's pockets that difference ends up in.. Julie PS...when milk drops like this, it makes it nearly impossible for a conventional farmer to even consider transition-to-organic mode, because organic inputs are so costly, and the farm cannot be supported on a conventional return (and especially not on a depressed one!). The elimination of this alternative as a survival tactic adds even further inclination to schedule the auction. And re: Party!! at Hugh's - Yeah, Hugh, you bake the cake, & I'll bring the milk!! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 15:05:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09521 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:05:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA07747; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:54:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07326 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:52:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp5.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.105]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA27007 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:53:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <004b01be7178$d0ed9d40$694b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:52:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 186 Dear Pat & Hugh, Thank you for these wonderful posts. Hugh you encourage me (dangerous, no?) and Pat you've really given so much to consider & study. It IS interesting that the US's position is different than that of other countries. And would it not be interesting to see Monsanto's placements? And even better, how the two entities, the US govt. & Monsanto relate and aspect each other. Would seeking out and capitalizing on the Achilles heel of this love affair be taking unfair advantage? :-) I'm getting radical, Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 15:14:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09751 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:14:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09789; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:03:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09445 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp201.cy-net.net [208.21.195.10]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA07155 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:05:01 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7147.09D4A4A0@FLYLO>; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:55:53 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7147.09D4A4A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: party at hugh's Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:49:45 -0600 Encoding: 48 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 187 I can bring milk too. Not exactly bathing in the stuff right now, but getting there, give me another month! Have 3 does due to kid end of March, and they're all heavy milkers. Milking 3 right now and it's keeping the baby goats happy but not much else till the moms start pouring it on. Sorry to hear about the milk prices, though. I'm about to find out some information about a cheese processor nearby and I wonder if that will affect his bottom price on what he can afford to pay or not. (Will know more Saturday). martha -----Original Message----- From: Julie M. [SMTP:marq@mwt.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 1:10 PM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture Anita wrote: "I don't get it. I just paid $2.99 for a half gallon of organic milk. That's enough to make anyone see stars!" Anita Hi Anita! Organic milk isn't tied to the BFP (Thank goodness), which certainly creates some incentive to produce it. But even if you were buying conventional milk (blechh!) you wouldn't be seeing a big drop in retail prices. Hugh, being versed in the agri-political machine, would know more about who's pockets that difference ends up in.. Julie PS...when milk drops like this, it makes it nearly impossible for a conventional farmer to even consider transition-to-organic mode, because organic inputs are so costly, and the farm cannot be supported on a conventional return (and especially not on a depressed one!). The elimination of this alternative as a survival tactic adds even further inclination to schedule the auction. And re: Party!! at Hugh's - Yeah, Hugh, you bake the cake, & I'll bring the milk!! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 18:13:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14151 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:13:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14698; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:01:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from wavecom.net (root@wave.sheridan.wy.us [206.54.116.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05919 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:10:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from dbrown.wavecom.net (sher56.wavecom.net [206.54.116.141]) by wavecom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17818 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:03:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199903182203.PAA17818@wavecom.net> From: "Audrey Malan" To: "biodynamic list serve" Subject: potato seed Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:13:34 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 188 Does anyone know where I can get some good potato seed in the Denver area? Thanks, Audrey From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 18 18:13:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14159 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:13:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14819; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:02:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10411 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:37:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem35.digisys.net [205.138.110.84]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA05112 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:39:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36F1811A.35E854A0@digisys.net> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:41:30 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture References: <004b01be7178$d0ed9d40$694b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 189 Julie, Julie M. wrote: > And would > it not be interesting to see Monsanto's placements? And even better, how the > two entities, the US govt. & Monsanto relate and aspect each other. > > Would seeking out and capitalizing on the Achilles heel of this love affair > be taking unfair advantage? :-) The last (initial ?) "incorporation" data I have on Monsanto is April 19, 1933 incorporated in Delaware. I feel confident that the incorporation date has changed many times since 1933, which means the 4/19/33 date can not be used as a valid chart. Pat Hironimus http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com > > > I'm getting radical, > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 00:15:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA19569 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:15:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA28072; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15947 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp369.cy-net.net [208.21.195.178]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA31777 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:59:12 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7180.D1F99560@FLYLO>; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:49:30 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7180.D1F99560@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: preps humor Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:41:40 -0600 Encoding: 12 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 190 Now, I know a variety of things are packed into cow horns, but for the life of me, having collected skulls and horns a lot, I can't figure out what that little dab could do, the amount packed inside a single horn is rather small. But, I've seen Ferdinand's photo of his horn 'wheel' and I'd imagine quite a bit of finished material would be unearthed, given the quantities of horns he uses. Then it hit me. The reason everyone on list is wild for Scotch Highlands is that they have horns longer than our fabled Texas Longhorns. Bury a stack of those and now you're getting somewhere. On the other hand, you'd have to wait quite awhile because they're said to be very long lived cows. (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 06:14:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22256 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:14:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA18686; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:01:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19659 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0204.direct.ca ([204.244.83.20] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Nq1y-00040B-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:33:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36F1C518.EC9574B5@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:31:36 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: [Fwd: No Till vs Double Digging] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------27B15604EB9ADF17CD3FBE5B" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 191 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------27B15604EB9ADF17CD3FBE5B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 --------------27B15604EB9ADF17CD3FBE5B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by gouda (mbox ferdy) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Thu Mar 18 09:48:47 1999) X-From_: tommyfree@hotmail.com Thu Mar 18 07:13:46 1999 Received: from wya-lfd87.hotmail.com ([207.82.252.151] helo=hotmail.com) by edam.direct.ca with smtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10NeUT-0002Ua-00 for Ferdy@direct.ca; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:13:45 -0800 Received: (qmail 24977 invoked by uid 65534); 18 Mar 1999 15:13:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990318151314.24976.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:13:13 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: Ferdy@direct.ca Subject: Re: No Till vs Double Digging Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:13:13 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Dear Ferdinand, Can you post this entry for me? Dear List, Double digging may be a prelude to an in-depth understanding to utilizing forms of soil to attract energies such as those found in lays. One form that dowsers use and understand to be beneficial is the labryinth. The laybrinth when placed properly in relation to underground water in landscape position, sometimes has the influence to either move or create a water dome beneath its' walls. In any reguard, this ancient structure has been in use far longer than civilization as we know it. Its' similation of "meander" is perhaps the archetype that attracts the water and beneficial energies of life and vitality. Michael. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------27B15604EB9ADF17CD3FBE5B-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 06:14:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22264 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:14:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA19075; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:03:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01457 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:50:59 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA05565 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:53:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:53:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-34.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.34) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005547; Thu Mar 18 23:52:58 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199931905446617421@ix.netcom.com> Subject: the price of freedom for all life X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 192 On 03/18/99 13:09:51 you wrote: > >Anita wrote: >"I don't get it. I just paid $2.99 for a half gallon of organic milk. >That's enough to make anyone see stars!" >Anita > > Just got a gallon of the same from a friend in a glass jar I will reuse. When my veggies are up we shall have fun meals together. No currency, no garbage, no trucking. I'm blessed. A reminder that no matter the quality of our ag, if we play into a market system designed to violate Earth, we are not wholly on the path of the real solution. Let us begin taking those steps more deliberately. Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? That's dumb. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 06:14:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22268 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:14:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA19015; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:03:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA00840 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:43:01 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA08357 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:45:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:45:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-34.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.34) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008296; Thu Mar 18 23:44:25 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199931904613632391@ix.netcom.com> Subject: the down side of BDNOW X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 193 ...is that every post is lucious and I have no time to read them all! Being new to this I'm a sponge for new perceptions, yet here I am up at 23:45 with a day of farming just on the other side of night. Alas, I shall go cultivate a sleeping dream! Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? That's dumb. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 06:14:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22280 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:14:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA18972; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:03:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA00655 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:41:29 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA29446; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:40:20 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:40:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-34.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.34) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029424; Thu Mar 18 23:40:11 1999 To: tawndor@bellatlantic.net To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <19993190415864827@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: GEO Consensus - BDNow X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 194 On 03/18/99 09:12:07 you wrote: > >Dear Colleagues, >As suggested by Jane Sherry, in the wake of the New Moon here is draft #2 of >a BD Now consensus statement on GEOs. Not too much input yet. I've lifted >some thoughts from related threads on this list. But I still feel we are >capable of greater spiritual insight into these questions. > >By all means indulge your inclinations to propose, rewrite, revise and >counter-propose. > >The thread will remain open for change and addition until April 15. > >Best, Steven Can I send you my taxes with my suggestions? Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? That's dumb. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 06:14:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22289 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:14:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA18910; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:02:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA00325 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:36:37 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA19618 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:38:48 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:38:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-34.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.34) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019610; Thu Mar 18 23:38:47 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <19993190403562995@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Spring Equinox X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 195 In the sudden warmth of yesterday the fogs came out signing and do so all day long and lull me to sleep. I hear chemical food and GMOs inhibit one's ability to listen to nature.... ya know, I said that jokingly, but now I wonder... Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? That's dumb. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 06:14:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22290 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:14:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA18843; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:02:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA29681 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:27:36 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA29914 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:29:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:29:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-34.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.34) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029904; Thu Mar 18 23:29:33 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199931903121623281@ix.netcom.com> Subject: rounding up roundup X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 196 On this note, on what counts could we apply to have their charter revoked? An anti-sludge group in PA filed to get Waste Management International's removed, also registered in DE. Couldn't their lousy international situation be called into ? legally? Any fines? What about the US farmers suing them? Who knows more on this? On 03/18/99 15:41:30 you wrote: > >Julie, > >Julie M. wrote: > >> And would >> it not be interesting to see Monsanto's placements? And even better, how the >> two entities, the US govt. & Monsanto relate and aspect each other. >> >> Would seeking out and capitalizing on the Achilles heel of this love affair >> be taking unfair advantage? :-) > >The last (initial ?) "incorporation" data I have on Monsanto is April 19, 1933 >incorporated in Delaware. I feel confident that the incorporation date has >changed many times since 1933, which means the 4/19/33 date can not be used as a >valid chart. > >Pat Hironimus >http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com > >> >> >> I'm getting radical, >> >> Julie > > > > Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? That's dumb. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 06:14:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22304 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:14:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA19131; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:03:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03086 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:08:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-131.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.131]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA01744 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:11:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36F1E9F8.7EED@ipa.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:08:56 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Soils & Testing: Summary of Current Practices Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 197 BD-Now, This is a summary of soil & food quality features/ tests in use by labs and farmers, from a post I put up on Sanet last year. There are probably other tests not listed; for example, the Solvita Soil Test Kit. Nevertheless, in this layout you get a quick summary both practically and conceptually. Certainly, bio-organic farmers are looking for more than just N-P-K-Lime type soil tests. Steve Diver ================================================== ================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:43:17 +0000 From: Steve Diver To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Soils & Testing: Summary of Current Practices Soil Feature/Food Quality and Testing Methods """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Feature Tests """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Mineral/Chemical N-P-K-Lime Base Saturation/CEC LaMotte Cardy Meters (Nitrates-Potassium) Tissue Tests Nitrate test strips pH Meter EC Meter (Electrical Conductivity) ORP Meter (Oxidation-Reduction) Physical USDA Soil Health Test Kit Compaction = Penetrometer Water infiltration Soil aggregation Soil/Sand Separator Organic Matter % O.M. Humus Value Circular Chromatography Potential pH Hydrogen Peroxide Microbial Soil Foodweb analysis Microbial counts and functional groups Formazan (Dehydrogenase activity) Respiration Cotton Bioassay Strips Energetic Paramagnetism (PCSM Meter) EC Meter (ERGS) Radionics Food Quality Brix = Refractometer Vitamin C test strips Nitrate test strips Darkfield Microscopy (cellular) Circular Chromatography """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" This is a summary of soil & food quality features with a list of current tests in use by labs and farmers. Ya'll got any comments or additions? Thanks! Steve Diver ================================================= From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 06:15:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22312 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:15:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA19215; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:04:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA11184 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 03:22:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 203 invoked from network); 19 Mar 1999 01:24:45 -0700 Received: from ts2-48.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.199) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 1999 01:24:45 -0700 Message-ID: <36F209D0.AE097769@cyberhighway.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:24:48 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Salmon River Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Spring Equinox References: <4.1.19990317110215.00930670@mail.kootenay.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 198 Signs of spring? Sandhill cranes calling with their guttural coos down in the lagoons. Golden eagle soaring over MY hilltop yesterday and today! Green life showing at the bottoms of my fernleaf golden yarrow. Irises poking their leaves up from the earth Robins scratching for worms Buds on the trees Green grass showing A beautiful, almost-like-summer day today. Most of the snow melted in my yard, except for the ice on the north side of the house Still plenty of snow on the mountains, but I'm watching for the "7" that appears when it melts just right and it's time to plant the peas. More than "Ahhhhh" in this locale--truly the reawakening of life on earth after a very long winter. Pam Woody wrote: > > Listfolk: > > The Spring Equinox happens Saturday, March 20, 5:45 PM our time here in > British Columbia. > What signs of Spring have we all been observing? Never mind bragging, you > guys south of the 30 degrees Latitude...I know it's been Spring there for > some time. > > Signs of Spring here at Aurora Farm: > > * Lilacs, serviceberry, Balm of Gilead buds swelling; > * Crocus and snowdrops blooming; > * Robins and Towhees singing; > * A bald eagle soaring over our hilltop yesterday; > * A couple of nights lately when it didn't drop below freezing... > > Ahhhhhh! > > Woody From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 06:15:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22321 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:15:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA18787; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:02:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20427 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:38:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp369.cy-net.net [208.21.195.178]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05546 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:41:21 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7186.B43856A0@FLYLO>; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:31:37 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7186.B43856A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: OFF: computer virus coming! Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:59:03 -0600 Encoding: 17 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 199 If you're concerned go to the site : http://www.datafellows.com they are the group that busted Happy99.exe long before anyone else caught wind of it. I get their updates and alerts and this came in tonight: < Espoo, Finland, March 18, 1999. - DataFellows, one of the world's leading developers of anti-virus and encryption software, is warning computer users about a virulent and widespread virus which activates on April 26th 1999 -- the day before Europe's leading IT security show, InfoSecurity '99 opens in London. The virus is CIH 1.2, a strain of the Win95/CIH virus family. CIH 1.2 (also known as CIH.1003) can overwrite the hard disk and the flash BIOS of an infected computer when it activates on 26th April-causing complete loss of data, and possibly rendering the computer unusable. Data Fellows is advising all computer users to update their anti-virus software immediately and back up their data.> martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 07:33:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA22897 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:33:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA26319; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:22:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA26178 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:21:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.128] (pm3shep3-163-148.intrepid.net [209.190.163.148]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28140 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:23:55 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:26:14 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Safe Seed Sources from "Mothers for Natural Law" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 200 For Your Garden Arbico Environmentals: certify that their Bt sprays and other products are not genetically engineered or produced from a genetically engineered product. Ecology Action for books and a great variety of untreated seeds 5798 Ridgewood Road Willits, CA 95490 Phone/Fax: 707-459-6410 E-mail: bountiful@zapcom.net The Invisible Gardener for natural pest control and more P.O.Box 4311 Malibu, CA 90265 Phone: 310-457-4438 www.invisiblegardener.com The following seed companies have provided written confirmation that none of their seeds are genetically engineered. The KUSA Society* PO Box 761 Ojai, CA 93024 *To receive information about The KUSA Society and a Seed & Literature Catalogue, send $2.50 and a long self-addressed, stamped envelope to the address above. Seeds of Change PO Box 15700 Santa Fe, NM 87506 Phone: 888-762-7333 Seed Savers Exchange Phone: 319-382-5990 Southern Exposure Seed Exchange PO Box 170 Earlysville, VA 22936 Phone: 804-973-4703 from: http://www.safe-food.org/-consumer/garden.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 07:49:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA23032 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:49:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA27180; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:37:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA27113 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:36:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.128] (pm3shep3-163-148.intrepid.net [209.190.163.148]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA30174 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:39:15 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE7180.D1F99560@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:41:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Highland Cattle was RE: preps humor Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 201 >Then it hit me. The reason everyone on list is wild for Scotch Highlands is >that they have horns longer than our fabled Texas Longhorns. Bury a stack >of those and now you're getting somewhere. >On the other hand, you'd have to wait quite awhile because they're said to >be very long lived cows. (martha) I'm working with three Highlands this year and do enjoy their strong 'presence.' Who else on BD Now! has some? Thanks Allan Balliett BIODYNAMICS Now! POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding csa@claymont.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 08:03:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA23405 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA28386; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from fh102.infi.net (fh102.infi.net [208.131.160.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28181 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:49:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from 208.129.61.66 (pm1-66.1v5.infi.net [208.129.61.66]) by fh102.infi.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA21004 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:52:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F23C60.5C22@bouldernews.infi.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:00:36 -0600 From: Paul Frazier Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Spring Equinox References: <4.1.19990317110215.00930670@mail.kootenay.com> <36F209D0.AE097769@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 202 Pam DeTray wrote: > > Signs of spring? > Sandhill cranes calling with their guttural coos down in the lagoons. > Golden eagle soaring over MY hilltop yesterday and today! > Green life showing at the bottoms of my fernleaf golden yarrow. > Irises poking their leaves up from the earth > Robins scratching for worms > Buds on the trees > Green grass showing > A beautiful, almost-like-summer day today. > Most of the snow melted in my yard, except for the ice on the north side > of the house > Still plenty of snow on the mountains, but I'm watching for the "7" that > appears when it melts just right and it's time to plant the peas. > More than "Ahhhhh" in this locale--truly the reawakening of life on > earth after a very long winter. > Pam > > Woody wrote: > > > > Listfolk: > > > > The Spring Equinox happens Saturday, March 20, 5:45 PM our time here in > > British Columbia. > > What signs of Spring have we all been observing? Never mind bragging, you > > guys south of the 30 degrees Latitude...I know it's been Spring there for > > some time. > > > > Signs of Spring here at Aurora Farm: > > > > * Lilacs, serviceberry, Balm of Gilead buds swelling; > > * Crocus and snowdrops blooming; > > * Robins and Towhees singing; > > * A bald eagle soaring over our hilltop yesterday; > > * A couple of nights lately when it didn't drop below freezing... > > > > Ahhhhhh! > > > > Woody Signs of Spring in Colorado The dark mountain sides are peaking through the snowcaps The Daffodils bloomed this week There are blossoms on the Nanking cherries The nightengale is awakening me at dawn The sun is in my eyes in the northeast window of my bedroom, calling me out of bed earlier and earlier The Finches are building their spring nest in the porch light again. The geese are finding their nesting sites on the pond and feisty! The soil is cool and crumbly, and delicious to work! AHHHHH She is so pregnant!!! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 08:06:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA23444 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:06:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA28647; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:55:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28357 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:52:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33132-659>; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:55:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:55:00 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Spring Equinox In-Reply-To: <36F209D0.AE097769@cyberhighway.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 203 Hi All; I am enjoying the signs of spring appearing, one suggestion could be to please put your local in your state,County, Country, etc.. It's fun guessing, but overseas BDNOWER's may be interested in looking on a map to get an idea where you garden/farm. On the coast of Eastern Canada, the fog horn is a symbol of sping, more misty days and overhead sounds of the shore birds moving back north and inland. In the woods the damp smell of last year's leaves, now breaking down and permitting the undergrowth to poke through. Temperatures reaching the 50's in the sunny sheltered areas...No Snow...Too early to plan hardy crops yet..start in April.. There is a Nova Scotia province wide 'Peeper Watch' which begins in April, first peeps heard from the province's southern end upward are noted by the media and the Nova Scoita Museum in Halifax, ending with a replica of a HUGE Peeper annually hoisted and attached on the outside of the Museum remaining until fall. Thanks for sharing spring with all of us.. Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada email:av204@chebucto.ns.ca From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 08:15:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA23530 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:15:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA29435; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:04:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29242 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:02:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp8.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.108]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id HAA03702 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:02:49 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <004f01be7208$a93ffb40$6c4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Spring Equinox Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:01:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 204 Joan Macdonald wrote: >There is a Nova Scotia province wide 'Peeper Watch' which begins in April, >first peeps heard from the province's southern end upward are noted by >the media and the Nova Scoita Museum in Halifax, ending with a replica of >a HUGE Peeper annually hoisted and attached on the outside of the Museum >remaining until fall. Wonderful! Do you know where this local custom originated, Joan? Peepers are one of my favorite signs of spring. Imagine never even having heard of them before moving to the farm! They say "Once the Peepers begin singing, you will see 3 times through glass (ice) before its time to plant" (I love creature lore!) Happy Spring! Love Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 08:21:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA23613 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:21:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA29807; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:10:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29708 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:09:17 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA15695 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:11:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:11:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-60.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.60) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma015679; Fri Mar 19 07:11:13 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <19993198125866334@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Spring Equinox X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 205 On 03/18/99 23:38:48 you wrote: > >In the sudden warmth of yesterday the fogs came out signing and do so all day long and lull me to sleep. Oops! I meant fRogs! The midnight lamp makes for funny typing. >I hear chemical food and GMOs inhibit one's ability to listen to nature.... ya know, I said that jokingly, but now I wonder... > > > Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 08:28:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA23777 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:28:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA00233; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:16:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA00051 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:14:41 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA16166 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:16:52 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:16:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md16-60.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.60) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma016152; Fri Mar 19 07:16:22 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199931981810619169@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Safe Seed Sources X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 206 It seems few people know of, or at least mention, Abundant Life Seed Foundation, a non-profit aimed towards preserving OP and heirlooms, particularly rare and endangered ones. Too often I see seed saving books that don't mention them and their wonderful efforts. I grow out the rare Iroquois/6 Nations bean for them. Moreover, I bought my first Stella Natura from them this year. Abundant Life Seed Foundation P.O. Box 772 Port Towsend, WA 98368 360.385.5660 fax 360.385.7455 Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 08:50:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA24086 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA02002; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:37:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA01895 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:36:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.4]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:40:50 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:39:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Spring Equinox Message-ID: <8124333A03F4587D8525673900419459.0049AA9185256739@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 207 Signs of Spring in NYC: Summer Growth all through December Roses in full bloom on Broadway by (Winter) Solstice January, February warm and wind storms Winter blooming witch hazel met Hellebores, dewdrops and crocus in bloom a full two weeks ago or more. Saw/Heard my first cardinals today The Big Park should really be called Bird Central. Sky luminous blue at dawn Ochre wands brightening to yellow on the willows Ground only froze two weeks ago when winter finally arrived with freezing cold, wind and snow covering exuberant hellebores below. And now they're fully a foot high. (Flowers, not snow!) To live in NYC and have birdsong greet you in the morning is truly a sign of spring, as are the long awaited sight of farmers returning to the street to sell their greenhouse greens, their end of winter roots and harbor the promise of summer. I also know it's spring when the NYTimes foolish food writers talk of dandelion greens, fiddle head ferns and nettles yes "fresh" nettles "imported" from the northwest coast! Only in NY folks! would people pay 10$ a pound!!!!! for imported nettles from 3000 miles away! Never suspecting that they may hide in their own back yards! Maybe you bd folks w/csa's or access to shipping or local NYC markets might want an early source of income? Happy Spring and may the gentle breeze blow! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 08:51:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA24106 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:51:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA02317; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:40:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA02087 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:38:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-03.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.178]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id HAA24107 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:42:07 -0600 Message-ID: <004601be721f$38cd8be0$b2f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: horn clay Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:41:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01BE71DB.F1365980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 208 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BE71DB.F1365980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Hugh- Where in the spraying sequence does horn clay fit in, would you spray = after the 500 and before the first application of 501? Would you always = try and time your horn clay application with a post-501 spraying. Is = there any horn clay available for the '99 season? with earthy regards, Parker ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BE71DB.F1365980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Hugh-
Where in the spraying sequence = does horn=20 clay fit in, would you spray after the 500 and before the first = application of=20 501? Would you always try and time your horn clay application with a = post-501=20 spraying. Is there any horn clay available for the '99=20 season?
 
with earthy = regards,
Parker
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BE71DB.F1365980-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 09:09:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24456 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:09:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03765; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:58:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03613 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:56:17 -0500 (EST) From: CWShade@aol.com Received: from CWShade@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hLESa10913 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:58:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32f48367.36f25803@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:58:27 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 209 In a message dated 99-03-16 23:55:26 EST, you write: << Earthworms are like chickens and have gizzards instead of teeth. They like those sharp, siliceous, gritty pieces to grind their food (the lawnmower clippings in this case) with. The chemists may tell you those sandy bits don't contain much in the way of nutrients anyway. But they're hard. I can hear the chemists scoff now, thinking what is the value of hardness? This quarry was noted for having hard stone, and like I say the earthworms loved it. They came up and scarffed it off the surface at night, gathered their lawnmower clippings, and presumably spend their days underground feasting to their hearts' content. That's what opened up the soil on that hillside and let in the nitrogen, oxygen and water. You know, those things nature gives us free if we have sense enough to go for it. What a key thing! Earthworms and hard, sharp bits of quartz with supposedly very low nutrient content. >> I just was looking at a paper where scientists looked at the effects of earthworm ingestion on pjosphate rack availability. They concluded that the effect, greater P availability, was due to the intimate incorporation of the the rock particles with the soil. They showed electron micrographs of the rock particles int0 the soil vs. passed throught he gut of the worm. The seived particles had air all around them, whereas the "wormed" particles were completely enveloped by highly organic soil goo. Biochemically this will coat the particles with soil bacteria an chelating organic acids to make available many mineral goodies. BUT, more interestingly, energetically I see the worm alchemy of uniting Positive and negative. Granite, basalt, rock phos, all paramagnetic, or positive, elements united with the diamagnetic, or negative, humus elements to make the soil hum with the elixir. Something that machanical mixing was not able to do, but rather left the two separate. But maybe I am just spewing. Chris Shade Aspiring Mad Scientist From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 09:09:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24469 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:09:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03798; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:58:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03713 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem12.digisys.net [205.138.110.61]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA23333 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:00:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36F258F2.83BEA57B@digisys.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:02:26 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 210 Morning Julie and All, Just put up Monsanto's 6/1/33 trading chart (Koch house system); and thought you might enjoy some of my musings. The first thing that caught my eye on this chart is a Virgo stellium in the 2nd house.Virgo being the sign of "I analyze" things as a means to obtain the corporate financial goals. Virgo is also the sign of the "harvest," so Monsanto values clever ideas that can be turned into an economic harvest (Mercury ruled Virgo on 2nd cusp). Harvesting money in and of itself is not a bad thing. Monsanto also has Neptune, Moon, Mars and Jupiter all in Virgo and all in the 2nd house. The 2nd house describes Monsanto's value system and how that value system dictates or determines the choices they make to arrive at their "bottom line." To me this is a strong indication of how highly prized the ole' mighty buck is to Monsanto. The Moon, Mars and Jupiter (2nd house) all inconjunct Saturn (7th house). My own personal word for an inconjunct is something that is "not resolved." The Moon/Virgo/2nd ruler of the 12th house inconjunct Saturn/Aquarius/7th ruler of the 6th house (and traditional ruler of 7th house): The 7th house has to do with the public attitude toward Monsanto, and Monsanto's attitude toward the public. Monsanto feels any conditions the public might view as against the public welfare (Moon ruler 12th house) need to be held tight to the breast; in other words, hidden and out of sight. Saturn/Aquarius/7th suggests Monsanto has a hard sharply changing on-again/off-again relationship with the public. Monsanto clashes with the U.S. public. It's worth mentioning here that the Leo Ascendant suggests Monsanto views itself as having the right to function as it chooses. A kind of lording over the public in general. If we look at Neptune/Virgo/2nd ruler 8th house: Neptune is not strongly positioned in Virgo. Virgo likes to pigeon-hole things, but Neptune is too fluid to be pigeon-holed. Neptune in the 2nd afflicted can be deceptive financial practices due to a dissolving sense of values. This would impact the public since Neptune rules 5 degrees of the 7th house (the public). Neptune of course can be making others "addicts" to the products they sell as a means of insuring continued cash-flow. So making money by addicting (Neptune/2nd) the populous to chemicals that kill (Neptune ruler 8th) earns Monsanto neither dignity nor honor. Jupiter/Virgo/2nd ruler 5th house: Jupiter traditionally rules Pisces (8th house), and it also rules Sagittarius (5th house). Jupiter/2nd is inconjunct Saturn/7th. Jupiter and Saturn are economic planets. Jupiter rules the ability to influence others (particularly those at a distance), the judicial system, the export of goods to foreign countries. Monsanto likely feels the U.S. public (Saturn/7th) works against (Capricorn/6th) it's efforts. I have a question. Does anyone know the sign, constellation or planet that rules "seeds" in general??? Pat Hironimus http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 09:12:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24521 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:12:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA04057; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:01:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03987 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:01:27 -0500 (EST) From: CWShade@aol.com Received: from CWShade@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hMOYa26965 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:02:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <60326ab5.36f258e8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:02:16 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 211 In a message dated 99-03-18 13:46:22 EST, you write: << a humanitarian (Aquarian) representation >> Remember that Aquarius is ruled by Saturn in worldly affairs. Humanitarian my ass. Look for Darth Vader. Chris Shade From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 09:45:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA25064 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:45:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA07809; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:35:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07441 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:32:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A0DE4F@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 9:35:24 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 19 Mar 99 09:35:20 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 19 Mar 99 09:35:16 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:35:07 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Re: (Fwd) Organic Farming Economics Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <28BC947764@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 212 Hi Everybody, I forwarded the below article from the Sanet list serve to Ferdinand and he suggests that I foward it to everybody. So, here it is: > Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:30:46 > From: "Bluestem Associates" > Subject: Organic Farming Economics > > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:40:13 -0500, BILL DUESING wrote: > > >In this country, 80 cents of every dollar spent on food is used to get the > >food from the farm to the eater. Only 20 cents gets to the farmer who > >spends on average 15 cents on inputs (labor, etc.) > > That's on produce. For commodities it's often 10 cents or less. John > Ikerd and Charles Benbrook have each done some excellent work in this > domain that is, alas, substantially more discouraging than your > numbers. Benbrook has compared the ensemble of US production > agriculture to other sectors of the agri-food industry, and the results > are not pretty. Farming's aggregate return on gross revenues is 2.1%, > compared to Food Service -- 3.4%; Retail Grocery -- 4.6%; Pesticides > - -- 5.9%; Food Processing -- 7.0%; and Seeds -- 12%. > > When looking at profits against assets, things are worse yet. Food > Service -- 16.1%; Retail Grocery 10.6%; Food Processing -- 9.1%; > Pesticides -- 3.9%; Seeds -- 3.7%; and finally, Farming -- a piddling > 0.4%. If you adjust Benbrook's profits against assets numbers to > account for average equity in those assets, farming's return on > investment (ROI) is *still* under 1% (and actually closer to 0.7% !) > That is roughly one-seventh the ROI to be had by putting the same > money in a totally-safe US Treasury bond. > > And let's remember, too, that over three-quarters of US farmers have > gross revenues under $50,000 and on average show a net *loss* of $3,000 > per year. > > >It seems that shrinking that 80 percent sector might prove more productive > >than shrinking the 15 percent one. > > Yes, indeed, though I'm not convinced that organic production (in > itself) is the answer. As organics is currently evolving, we have a > $4.00 box of organic corn flakes for which the farmer sees about 4 > cents. Please explain how that is a substantial improvement on $3.00 > conventional corn flakes, for which the farmer sees 3 cents. > > To survive, farmers need to think more like the shareholders of a > corporation, focusing *first* on maximizing ROI. Getting our hands on > a bigger chunk of that 80 per cent is a major element of that process. > > Most farmers, unfortunately, are content to work as staff for a > business that has no over-arching internal management structure. As a > result, the functions of VP Finance usually end up in the hands of the > Banker. The role of VP Production goes to major input suppliers. And > VP Marketing is most often the Buyer. All these external people are > understandably trying to fatten their own bottom lines, which is how > you end up with the kind of comparative returns that Benbrook cited. > > Farmers have a greater chance of financial success if they think *more* > like business people, not less, and that success at least allows them > the option of taking better care of their land. Farmers who have their > backs against the wall financially are not particularly willing to > change *anything* because they simply can't afford to make a mistake. > Therein lies the core of our challenge in popularizing sustainable and > organic agriculture. > > Attempting to address the agronomic issues before the management > challenges are resolved it unlikely to be especially satisfying or > effective. > > > Bart Hall, > Lawrence, Kansas > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 10:05:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25411 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:05:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10557; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:54:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10484 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:53:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d141.infoserve.net [199.175.157.141]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA06700 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:59:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <008201be7218$b9509480$8d9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: Safe Seed Sources Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:43:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 213 Lots of people know about Abundant Life Seed now. There is a seed source list on bdnow's website. Michael -----Original Message----- From: beanman@ix.netcom.com To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 5:22 AM Subject: Re: Safe Seed Sources >It seems few people know of, or at least mention, Abundant Life Seed Foundation, a non-profit aimed towards preserving OP and >heirlooms, particularly rare and endangered ones. >Too often I see seed saving books that don't mention them and their wonderful efforts. I grow out the rare Iroquois/6 Nations bean for >them. > >Moreover, I bought my first Stella Natura from them this year. > >Abundant Life Seed Foundation >P.O. Box 772 >Port Towsend, WA >98368 >360.385.5660 >fax 360.385.7455 > > >Happy Gardening, > >Paco >aka John E. Verin > > >BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! >How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 10:49:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26618 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:49:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA16323; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:38:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12475 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:11:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max11-16.stc.net [208.210.136.16]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05084 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:14:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199931904613632391@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:09:26 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: the down side of BDNOW Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 214 Beanman writes: >How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses >built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to >do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money >to give to someone else in order to eat food? That's dumb. Beanman, Absolutely! Nobody's accusing the human race of being intelligent and wise, though a few scattered individuals have won that accolade. The masses routinely line up behind a juggernaut to Hell while proclaiming its goodness and righteousness. Nor are we lacking in role models for this amongst the angels and gods. What do you think is going on? Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 10:49:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26624 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA16401; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:38:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12513 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:11:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max11-16.stc.net [208.210.136.16]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05148 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:14:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199931905446617421@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:35:58 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: the price of freedom for all life Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 215 > >Just got a gallon of the same from a friend in a glass jar I will reuse. >When my veggies are up we >shall have fun meals together. No currency, no garbage, no trucking. I'm >blessed. > >A reminder that no matter the quality of our ag, if we play into a market >system designed to violate Earth, we are not wholly on the path >of the real solution. > >Let us begin taking those steps more deliberately. > > >Happy Gardening, > >Paco >aka John E. Verin Right on Fella! The most successful BD farmer I know, Jeff Poppen in Red Boiling Springs, Tennessee, has never been on the grid, cooks with wood, grows most of what he eats, has an answering phone at the border of his land, has a good time playing music in the evenings, and has put all the money he saves into increasing his farm from 90 to 400 acres. His main concession is using gasoline. Beautiful land only 45 minutes from the state capitol. You gotta figure that if the system rips us off and is suckering us into paying for it its colonialism and corruption right and left, how much better are we liable to be off if we opt out? Maybe a lot? But CAN we opt out? Does anyone know HOW? It's like being a bright kid, stuck in the ghetto and seeing/knowing no way out. How can you get out of what is essentially a hopeless, oppressive, self-destructive situation? Actually, there's the question of how to become free from the hopelessness, oppression and self-destruction. Some manage this without leaving the ghetto, or they may leave seeking freedom and come back to point the way for others. On the other hand you might ask yourself how would you find your way in? Could you do that? I've found both possible, though the mental gymnastics can be extraordinary. But then I fit myself in here in Blairsville over the past 23 years where everyone's "mountain folks" further than you can walk in a day, and I'm one of the good ol' boys. Me, I'm ever so alien. They know I'm an alien because I can pronounce all the chemicals listed on the feed sacks and describe the industrial processes that produced them and their side effects, to say nothing of talking economics, astronomy, physics, classical music, anatomy, geology, fine art and cajun cooking. I'm known for having having rainbow people, foreigners and inner city blacks visit for extended periods. But I learned the patois right off, assumed most of the outward appearances and I like and respect these people. I've liked and respected people everywhere I've gone. I would try to fit in even on a foreign planet. I probably would have never become a BD farmer if I couldn't make paradigm shifts. Probably there is no greater survival skill for Y2K or any other calamity than mental flexibility. You can stockpile food, learn to grow it, learn all sorts of survival skills and stockpile the gear to use them, but when it comes right down to it you'll have to roll with the punches. That's only survival, however, just tactics. The long range view, the strategic question of how will we craft a wiser social order begs for answers on the borders of our thought. We must address this issue. We can't go much further with just tactics. It's deserving of a lot of thought. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 10:49:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26635 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:49:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA16479; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:39:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12558 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:12:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max11-16.stc.net [208.210.136.16]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05210 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:14:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:50:21 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: GEO Consensus - BDNow Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 216 >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:58:11 -0400 >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >From: Hugh Lovel >Subject: Re: GEO Consensus - BDNow >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > >>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:12:07 -0500 >>Subject: Re: GEO Consensus - BDNow >>From: "Steven McFadden" >>To: bdnow@envirolink.org >>Mime-version: 1.0 >>X-Priority: 3 >>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id >>JAA09752 >>Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org >>Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org >> >>Dear Colleagues, >>As suggested by Jane Sherry, in the wake of the New Moon here is draft #2 of >>a BD Now consensus statement on GEOs. Not too much input yet. I've lifted >>some thoughts from related threads on this list. But I still feel we are >>capable of greater spiritual insight into these questions. >> >>By all means indulge your inclinations to propose, rewrite, revise and >>counter-propose. >> >>The thread will remain open for change and addition until April 15. >> >>Best, Steven > > >Steven, > >I want to sign on this. It's well enough stated for me. > >I'm sure this genetic tinkering is extremely unwise. For one thing if >something deadly gets loose, with or without mutating (though there's >reason to believe mutation is a given) it won't be like an atom bomb and >cease to exist after it's wreaked its bit of havoc. No it will reproduce >itself. Atom bombs do not reproduce themselves, which limits their >dangers. All we would need is some windborn disease virulent enough to >wipe us all out and we have solved the problem of human pollution for >planet Earth. > >Imagine cooking up just such a disease, spreading it to the winds and >charging everyone a tax for their daily antidote. It would be the ultimate >siezure of power scam. You could tatoo everyone who came forward for the >antidote with a numerical code on their forehead in flourescent dye. >Everyone else would die of the disease. This kind of thing is the lowest >common denominator of genetic engineering. Never before have we had the >potential of weapons with such surpassing ability to subjugate everyone to >a ruling gang. Plus using them maybe won't even damage the infrastructure. > >Ah, well! We are sure in for exciting times. From the above you can see >that government regulation of the genetic modification industries will >probably have only limited beneficial effects. Nonetheless we must strive >for as much regulation over these industries as we can get. > >Sadly, > > Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 11:41:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA27810 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:41:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA23966; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:30:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23465 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:27:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A100FD@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:30:08 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 19 Mar 99 11:30:04 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 19 Mar 99 11:30:00 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:29:57 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: More on woms Priority: normal In-reply-to: <32f48367.36f25803@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <2AA61F25A1@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 217 > BUT, more interestingly, energetically I see the worm > alchemy of uniting Positive and negative. Granite, basalt, rock phos, all > paramagnetic, or positive, elements united with the diamagnetic, or negative, > humus elements to make the soil hum with the elixir. Something that > machanical mixing was not able to do, but rather left the two separate. But > maybe I am just spewing. > > Chris Shade > Aspiring Mad Scientist Spewing? I don't think so. Digesting perhaps, joining ideas like magnetic and paramagnetic poles, perhaps... but definately not spewing. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 12:05:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28393 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:05:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27195; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:54:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26853 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:52:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.3.101]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:55:39 +0000 Message-ID: <36F2818E.32EA@cwcom.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:55:42 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Horn clay Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 218 Dear Hugh and other wise folks - I have heavy clay about 1-2 feet down, I don't know how deep (have never found the energy to dig far enough down). So far, my efforts have all been to open it up by digging in compost, leaf mould, fibrous pond dredgings etc. How do my needs to energise this clay compare with yours in open sandy soil? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 12:33:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29062 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:32:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00409; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:22:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00022 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max11-46.stc.net [208.210.136.46]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25414 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:22:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004601be721f$38cd8be0$b2f2facf@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:58:38 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: horn clay Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 219 > Dear Hugh- Where in the spraying sequence does horn clay fit in, >would you spray after the 500 and before the first application of 501? >Would you always try and time your horn clay application with a post-501 >spraying. Is there any horn clay available for the '99 season? with >earthy regards, Parker I'll soon have some spring to spring horn clay. I think that's not the best, but the best I presently have for manual application. There's many ways of looking at this. Suppose you try the following. Spray the horn clay one evening, then the 501 the next morning, the 500 that evening and the horn clay again the following morning. Or use your intuition if you have better ideas. Best Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 12:33:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29070 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:33:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00344; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:22:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29961 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:19:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max11-46.stc.net [208.210.136.46]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25363 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:22:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <32f48367.36f25803@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:52:18 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 220 >I just was looking at a paper where scientists looked at the effects of >earthworm ingestion on pjosphate rack availability. They concluded that the >effect, greater P availability, was due to the intimate incorporation of the >the rock particles with the soil. They showed electron micrographs of the >rock particles int0 the soil vs. passed throught he gut of the worm. The >seived particles had air all around them, whereas the "wormed" particles were >completely enveloped by highly organic soil goo. Biochemically this will coat >the particles with soil bacteria an chelating organic acids to make available >many mineral goodies. BUT, more interestingly, energetically I see the worm >alchemy of uniting Positive and negative. Granite, basalt, rock phos, all >paramagnetic, or positive, elements united with the diamagnetic, or negative, >humus elements to make the soil hum with the elixir. Something that >machanical mixing was not able to do, but rather left the two separate. But >maybe I am just spewing. > >Chris Shade Chris Mechanical mixing may very well be counter productive. Ever watch how pigs root? They have a keen sense of what minerals are in the soil, and they ingest tasty minerals such as various rock powders, humates, gyp, rock phos, wood ash, etc. by choice. The pig is just about the closest thing to an earthworm on four legs. But the earthworm takes this business a good bit farther. If you leave the material you're applying spread on the surface they will come up at night and get it. Plant roots like earthworm tunnels, just incidentally, and will get the minerals after the earthworms are through. So incorporation may just make it more difficult for the earthworm to ingest the material and that much slower for plant response. Certainly on my hillside with all the finely chopped vegetation (earthworm food) salted down with granite dust the following round of vegetation showed all the signs of getting what was spread on the surface. Needless to say, however, there was abundant earthworm activity. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 13:04:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29612 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:04:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA04380; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:53:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04012 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:50:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max2-38.stc.net [208.210.131.166]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29893 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:52:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F2818E.32EA@cwcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:25:33 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Horn clay Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 221 >Dear Hugh and other wise folks - I have heavy clay about 1-2 feet down, >I don't know how deep (have never found the energy to dig far enough >down). So far, my efforts have all been to open it up by digging in >compost, leaf mould, fibrous pond dredgings etc. How do my needs to >energise this clay compare with yours in open sandy soil? Tony N-S. Tony, I've found heavy clay is really good soil when enlivened. I'd recommend all the preps including horn clay and do whatever is needed to get high populations of active earthworms. See my experiences with BD No-till. Best Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 13:10:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29796 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA05112; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:59:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04746 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:56:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d147.infoserve.net [199.175.157.147]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA15480 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:01:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002201be7232$3c583ea0$939dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: spring on coastal southwestern British Columbia Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:59:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE71EF.1CC2BF40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 222 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE71EF.1CC2BF40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Azelea praecox already blooming since sometime in Feb. de-mossing the front lawn (yuck!) digging out the winter compost augmenting mature compost onto the vegie beds lots of bulb plants in bloom (crocuses, some hyacinths, etc.) having thoughts about kayaking rather than showshoeing up the mountain = above us ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE71EF.1CC2BF40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Azelea praecox already blooming = since sometime=20 in Feb.
de-mossing the front lawn (yuck!)
digging out the winter compost
augmenting mature compost onto the vegie = beds
lots of bulb plants in bloom (crocuses, some = hyacinths,=20 etc.)
having thoughts about kayaking rather than = showshoeing up the=20 mountain above us
 
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE71EF.1CC2BF40-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 13:27:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA00188 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:27:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07691; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:17:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07572 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.85]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:18:44 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990319101321.007f5790@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:13:21 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad Subject: Re: spring on coastal southwestern British Columbia In-Reply-To: <002201be7232$3c583ea0$939dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 223 Michael wrote: >>>> Azelea praecox already blooming since sometime in Feb. de-mossing the front lawn (yuck!) <<<<<<<< we like our moss in our front lawn, makes for less mowing >>>> digging out the winter compost augmenting mature compost onto the vegie beds lots of bulb plants in bloom (crocuses, some hyacinths, etc.) having thoughts about kayaking rather than showshoeing up the mountain above us <<<<<<<< I'm in Vancouver, saw a wasp in the garden yesterday, and lots of little ants rummaging around the surface. The horsetails are coming up, but not much other wild plants except lots of grass, dandelions, plantain and buttercups. The little markets are starting to sell transplants too. Conrad "Folk and slave and subjugator will admit it readily: Children of the earth have no boons greater than their personality." --J. W. Goethe From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 14:46:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01947 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:46:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA22273; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22072 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A1334D@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:37:25 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 19 Mar 99 14:37:21 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 19 Mar 99 14:37:02 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:37:00 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: OFF: A joke in time saves nine! Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <2DC4457BEF@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 224 Some time ago there was a discussion as to which prep was to be used for invoking the humor element. To that end, I submit the following. A friend sent it to me and it sits especially well with me today as the boiyant levety of Spring Time has me almost Spring-ing right out of this office! > Have you heard this one....? > Mahatma Gandhi walked barefoot throughout the countryside so much that his feet became very hard and calloused. His diet was spare, and he was extremely thin as a result. To keep going, he tried to carry a little bit of garlic with him at all times and chew on it for energy and clarity of thought. Thus Gandhi became known as the.. "Super Calloused Fragile Mystic Blessed With Halitosis" > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 16:01:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03438 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:01:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05095; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:49:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04997 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:48:55 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hOWPa28780 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:50:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <67df0311.36f2b89e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:50:38 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: OFF Re: Sins against the Mother Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 225 GEO Consensus BDNOW From: tawndor@bellatlantic.net (Steven McFadden) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Reply-to: bdnow@envirolink.org To: bdnow@envirolink.org In a message dated 99-03-18 09:15:48 EST, you write: << We stand in unified opposition to the disrespectful and fundamentally anti-democratic impulse of >>>>government<<<<< business and science to rush these experiments out into the natural world, and into the food chain for humans and animals with no notice, no debate, and no choice. >>>>>>>>>So, what are we going to do about it????????<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>.....and we will take whatever measures we can..... to publicly protest......(will we, is that our role??)<<<<<<< Protest: 1. unscientific quackery ("cure-all") 2. the danger to life 3. unfair trade practices I can't think of any spiritual aspects. Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 16:03:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03489 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05603; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:52:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05036 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:49:08 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hDXHa13434 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:50:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:50:37 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 226 In a message dated 99-03-18 07:03:18 EST, you write: << I do think this GM work and computers are the major symptoms of the 1998 events. It s another crossroads - a 'threshold' defined as a line beynd which is the unknown but we have to cross it to grow and things will never be the same again after making the crossing. >> Yes, cross it together, survive the shaking up, and we will recognize each other beyond. Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 16:09:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03664 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:09:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06448; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06257 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:57:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A14A76@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:59:48 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 19 Mar 99 15:59:44 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 19 Mar 99 15:59:30 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:59:29 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: child devpt Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <2F24331ABF@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 227 Subject: Re: LA Times: Pesticides May Harm Brain, Study Says Below are two posts to the Sanet list serve regarding the effect of pesticides, mostly on the development of children. Kevin says that it comes from a book (and so I include his post in case you want to read the book) and Beth sends it in from the LA Times (and I include that in case you want a preview). But the particular paragraphs that I want to concentrate on are the following: "Most of the stick-figure drawings by the 4- and 5-year-olds in the farm valley were unrecognizable as human beings--they look like the scribbles of a 2-year-old. In contrast, drawings by the foothill children had heads, eyes, torsos, arms and legs. "Experts say that the inability to draw a person indicates a breakdown between the brain's ability to process visual information and its ability to control fine muscles. "'Some valley mothers stressed their own frustration in trying to teach their child how to draw. In addition, two valley children drew pictures composed of boxes, arches and lines, claiming these pictures were people' the researchers reported." The little that I know from child development and the interpretation of child art comes from my Waldorf school teachers. I'm under the impression that this is a topic of focus somewhere in Steiner. I'm sure that an anthroposophical interpretation of the drawings would have a lot more to say than just "problem with motor skills" What I'm wondering about is what you all have to say about this. Anita >From SANET, Kevin's post: Much of this article seems to have been based on the book "Our Stolen Future : Are We Threatening Our Fertility, Intelligence, and Survival?-A Scientific Detective Story" by Theo Colburn, et al (ISBN: 0452274141). The book is a must read for anyone seeking an articulate and definitively damning critique of our societys use of chemicals. Theo Colburn is an experienced and respected scientist with a gift for writing clearly and concisely (a rare feat for most scientists). I highly reccomend it. Kevin Webb Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:07:27 -0700 From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: LA Times: Pesticides May Harm Brain, Study Says Pesticides May Harm Brain, Study Says Health: Fetuses and young children in farm areas are at highest risk, research suggests, with intelligence, motor skills and personalities affected. By MARLA CONE Los Angeles Times Environmental Writer Monday, March 15, 1999 Children exposed to pesticides in the womb or at an early age may suffer permanent brain defects that could change their lives by altering their behavior and their ability to do everything from drawing a picture to catching a ball, according to new scientific research. Widely used pest-killing chemicals, in amounts routinely found in the environment in farm areas, seem to be capable of skewing thyroid hormones, which control how the brain of a fetus or young child develops, according to a study published today. Scientists say the study and other recent research support an emerging theory that pesticides may exact a toll on the intelligence, motor skills and personalities of infants, toddlers and preschoolers. "Data suggest that we may be raising a generation of children with learning disabilities and hyper-aggression," said Warren Porter, a University of Wisconsin professor of zoology and environmental toxicology. Porter's study, published today in the journal Toxicology and Industrial Health, shows that a common mix of insecticide, herbicide and fertilizer found in drinking water altered the thyroid hormones of young mice. It also changed their aggressiveness--measured by attacks on other mice--and suppressed their immune systems. Although a study of mice alone is not overly compelling, the theory is bolstered by recent research on human beings. In tests in the state of Sonora, Mexico, scientists found striking differences in hand-eye coordination and other mental and physical skills when comparing Yaqui Indian preschoolers in an agrarian region with those in adjacent foothills where no pesticides are used. Four- and 5-year-olds living in the farm valley had trouble performing a variety of simple motor skills--drawing stick figures, catching a 12-inch ball from almost four yards away and a tennis ball from more than a yard away, and dropping raisins into a bottle cap from a distance of six inches. They also had poorer memory skills and stamina, were more prone to physical aggression and angry outbursts, and were less sociable and creative while playing. Farm and household pest-killers are widely used there, and high levels of multiple pesticides have been found in the cord blood of newborns and the breast milk of mothers in the area. Another study, in rural western Minnesota, found increased birth defects in children conceived during the spring growing season. Most of the new research detects problems in agricultural communities--places found not just in rural regions but also in more urbanized areas, including Southern California. No one knows yet what it might mean for people who consume small traces of the chemicals in their food. Earlier this month, Consumers Union reported that many fruits and vegetables contain concentrations of pesticides that may be unhealthful for children. The new hormone studies add to a growing body of research from around the world suggesting that dozens of commonly used pesticides and other chemicals mimic the hormones that control sexual and neurological development. Called endocrine disruption, this is arguably the most controversial environmental issue of the past decade. >From alligators in Florida to polar bears in the Arctic, wild animals in pollution hot spots have been feminized by hormone-disrupting chemicals that imitate estrogen or block testosterone, scientists say. But the impact on human beings--who generally are exposed to much lower levels of pollution--is more controversial and uncertain. In addition to the possible neurological effects, some researchers theorize that the hormone disrupters could be reducing men's sperm counts or increasing diseases of the reproductive system. Pesticide company representatives--and some toxicologists and other scientists -- remain skeptical that commonly found levels of pesticides can alter human thyroid and sex hormones. "I'm kind of dubious that low-level exposures to chemicals are raising all kinds of havoc with the endocrine system," said John McCarthy, vice president of a group representing pesticide manufacturers, the American Crop Protection Assn. "The human system has so many protective mechanisms, and our bodies are bombarded with all kinds of things." Still, he said, the industry is highly concerned about the findings suggesting neurological damage, and would like to see a comprehensive review to evaluate all existing studies and figure out what they collectively show. "We ought to be taking a very hard look at it," McCarthy said. "There's almost a study a week of one type or another, and it's hard to see how it all fits together. We have to take some time to say, 'OK, what does this all mean? Is this something that should require some abrupt change [in pesticides] or fine-tuning or more research?'" No one knows how many pesticides out of 77,000 used in the United States might alter sex or thyroid hormones. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires tests that screen pesticides for cancer and birth defects--but not for hormone effects. A committee last year devised new testing requirements--supported by the pesticide industry--that are expected to take effect in 2001. It has long been suspected that various environmental pollutants can damage brain development. Industrial compounds called PCBs have been linked to learning disabilities in children of women who ate contaminated Great Lakes fish. The link to pesticides is far from definitive, however, and big gaps in knowledge remain. Questions abound: How do the contaminants disrupt thyroid levels? What does that physically do to the brain? What dose of exposure does it take? Does the human body have some defense mechanism to fend off low levels of hormones? What do mixes of various man-made and natural hormones do to people? Some scientists suspect that the damage is passed from a mother to her unborn child early in the first trimester, before most women even know they are pregnant. Thyroid hormones guide the nerve cells that dictate how the brain of a fetus develops and the number of brain cells created. One theory is that if a mother receives a dose of pesticides during this critical phase, it can interfere with her thyroid levels -- sometimes raising them, sometimes lowering them--irreversibly altering the child's nervous system. How the child's brain circuitry develops determines his or her hand-eye coordination, motor skills and learning ability. Thyroid hormones also can change behavior--an excess can make people quick to anger, while a low count could have the opposite effect. The hormones also can alter steroids that control aggression and immune systems. "Thyroid hormones are important to brain development, and that's been known for a long time," said Dr. Harley Kornblum, a pediatric neurologist at the UCLA Medical Center. But, he and other neurologists say, it's debatable how important the mother's thyroid level is to the fetus, and it's even more uncertain what role environmental contaminants may play. Porter said children up to age 8 who have developing brains and immune systems are "especially vulnerable" to changes in thyroid hormones. Some symptoms of children exposed to pesticides are similar to attention deficit hyperactivity disorders, which have been increasingly diagnosed in American children. Some medical research supports a link between thyroid hormones and those disorders, but the connection, especially with pesticides, remains unclear. The implication for adults, and whether pesticides might cause thyroid disorders, also is unknown. In the study of 50 Mexican children, the scientists, led by anthropologist Elizabeth Guillette of the University of Arizona, said genetic and social factors--including income, education and health services--are so similar between the farm valley and the foothills that they cannot explain the differences in the youngsters' cognitive ability. "These children share similar genetic background, diets, water mineral contents, cultural patterns and social behaviors. The major difference was their exposure to pesticides," Guillette and Mexican researchers said in a report published in June in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives. Most of the stick-figure drawings by the 4- and 5-year-olds in the farm valley were unrecognizable as human beings--they look like the scribbles of a 2-year-old. In contrast, drawings by the foothill children had heads, eyes, torsos, arms and legs. Experts say that the inability to draw a person indicates a breakdown between the brain's ability to process visual information and its ability to control fine muscles. "Some valley mothers stressed their own frustration in trying to teach their child how to draw. In addition, two valley children drew pictures composed of boxes, arches and lines, claiming these pictures were people," the researchers reported. Other tests pointed to recollection and stamina problems. One foothill child could jump for 336 seconds--over three times longer than the best-performing valley child. Some scientists remain dubious of the results because the tests on the children were unusual, and are intrinsically subjective and difficult to interpret. Dr. Richard Jackson, director of the National Center for Environmental Health at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said his staff was "unimpressed by the scientific rigor" of the work in the report. McCarthy said that although the differences between the two populations of children seem striking, other hidden factors, rather than pesticide exposure, cannot be ruled out. Other studies, meanwhile, show that pesticide exposure during the first trimester of pregnancy increases birth defects. The University of Minnesota and the federal EPA in a 1996 study found a high rate of birth defects in the children of Minnesotans who work as pesticide appliers as well as the general population of western Minnesota, a major farm region with heavy pesticide use. The defect rate was the highest among babies born nine months after the spring season, indicating that the risk rises for children conceived during the time when pesticide use increases. In Porter's 5-year study of mice, the animals drank water containing a mixture of two pesticides--aldicarb and atrazine--and nitrates from fertilizer. The concentrations ingested by the mice were similar to those found in ground water in many agricultural areas, Porter said. Aldicarb, atrazine and nitrates are the three most abundant agricultural contaminants in the United States, although they do not rank high in use in California. While the mix of the three chemicals altered the mice hormones, each one alone did not. That points out a gaping hole in the federal effort to protect consumers--the EPA only tests for effects of pesticides individually, not cumulatively. The EPA tests, Porter said, "generate a great deal of false confidence in the safety" of pesticides. Source: Environmental Health Perspectives, June 1998. Copyright 1999 Los Angeles Times. All Rights Reserved Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 16:25:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04002 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:25:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA08967; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:14:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08547 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:10:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ihug.co.nz (p60-max38.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.228.124]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18000 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:13:23 +1300 Message-ID: <36F16A62.6EE4DE9A@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:04:34 +1300 From: I & K Buckingham Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 228 Hugh Lovel wrote: > I'm of the thought that the trouble with most BD farms today is they aren't > really developing very fast or very far in terms of life forces. They DO > have more life forces than the farms around them, and they congratulate > themselves on this and let it go. But on a scale of 1 to 100 they see their > neighbors at 2 or 3 and themselves at 8 or 9 and think how far they've come > when they should be thinking how far they have yet to go. When we started down the BD path we were told that after 3 years we would have a biodynamic farm. After 5 years we thought we were beginning to make progress. After 10 years we felt the farm was more "alive" and now look eagerly towards the 20 year mark. At that time I believe the farm will truly begin to have a life of its own. The road may be long, the destination far, but the journey is sweet. Regards Ian Buckingham Maungatawhiri New Zealand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 17:30:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05215 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA17876; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:18:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17768 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:17:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.1]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:21:45 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:20:22 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 229 Hi Mark & Christine, I'm a bit perplexed by both of your remarks, especially as to how this works exactly as you mean it with the GMO thread and/or bd context...could you both expand a bit more on this please? Thanks... seeking illumination, Jane Sherry In a message dated 99-03-18 07:03:18 EST, you write: << I do think this GM work and computers are the major symptoms of the 1998 events. It s another crossroads - a 'threshold' defined as a line beynd which is the unknown but we have to cross it to grow and things will never be the same again after making the crossing. >> Yes, cross it together, survive the shaking up, and we will recognize each other beyond. Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 21:35:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09876 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:35:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA11227; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:23:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11017 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:21:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp198.cy-net.net [208.21.195.7]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA12144 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:23:48 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7245.0D1F0840@FLYLO>; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:14:11 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7245.0D1F0840@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: a show of hands Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:24:06 -0600 Encoding: 13 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 230 Yesterday, I was digging in new soil. (*Well, new to me anyhow.) I was making some room to put rosemary in amongst the newly forming herb bed, planted out some cherry tomatoes, and dug around the sprouting blackberry vines. Generally, had my hands in the dirt for a number of hours. Normally, I can wash my hands after playing in the dirt and go about my business, but I noticed they were very dry and 'stiff'. Even after washing, they took quite awhile to get moisture back to skin surface. Now, normally, I'd have just thought, ok, work in the garden, your hands get dry and rough. (no real big deal). But I'm now wondering (thanks to you BD gang) if the soil itself wasn't using or taking the oils and particles from my skin surface. Well, it had to go SOMEWHERE, didn't it? martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 21:35:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09886 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA11272; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:23:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11112 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:22:12 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA08408; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:23:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:23:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md18-51.ix.netcom.com(205.184.107.51) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008394; Fri Mar 19 20:23:39 1999 To: uai@stc.net To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <1999319212527628145@ix.netcom.com> Subject: OFF: what's going on? X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 231 On 03/19/99 08:09:26 you wrote: > >Beanman writes: > > >>How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses >>built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to >>do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money >>to give to someone else in order to eat food? That's dumb. > >Beanman, > >Absolutely! Nobody's accusing the human race of being intelligent and wise, >though a few scattered individuals have won that accolade. The masses >routinely line up behind a juggernaut to Hell while proclaiming its >goodness and righteousness. Nor are we lacking in role models for this >amongst the angels and gods. What do you think is going on? > >Best, > >Hugh Lovel >Blairsville, Georgia I changed the email sig to eliminate the "that's dumb" part, because that's just too judgemental, which I'm working at shedding. Got a good reminder today not to assume that only I and persons similar to me know that things are amuck. Most know it, I'd say, they're just unsure/afraid to steer a different course. There are no models to get out of the 9-5/mortgage/2 cars/kids mode and survive. Not in the mass media anyway. Most of my hometown friends (in NJ; I'm currently in Accokeek, MD) would love a different life, but just don't know how to make the switch while keeping shelter and food on the plate. And I understand. On that note, I can resent Monsanto/corporations etc. for their "wrong doings," but am I capable of reaching out to them in a way that would help them See better? Maybe they just DON'T want to, but I feel a truely loving person could see in someone that one string to pluck that would start a whole new set of vibrations for someone. There is the challenge I put before myself, and it feels like a vertical cliff! So, what do I think is going on? Well, probably lots more than I know, and maybe lots more than any human could know. >From a religious perspective, I do feel strongly that the notion of being "banned from Eden" has left a psychic scar on our culture, thus we trash Earth/the Garden as spiteful infants railing against God the punisher (like a teen getting thrown out of High School then going back that night and throwing rocks thru the windows). I also feel the notion of a "savior" and a "second coming" justifies passivity in some people's minds, whether they be actively religious or not. It fosters a "someone else is going to take care of it all" mentality. Likewise, the notion that "life is about suffering until heaven" could allow for indifference to this world while begrudingly waiting for bliss. On that note, last night I thought about this and felt that, yes, life HAS suffering, but is ABOUT healing (in part). But a lot of what's going on is that, for whatever reasons, "we" have lost sacred connection to Spirit, Mystery, manifestation of such, and forsaken the ceremonies and rituals to honor them and more importantly to connect us to them psychically, to initiate us to new levels, including from childhood to adulthood. Yes, our religious institutions have ceremonies and rituals, but what are they really giving us if when we leave the place of worship we go to a job/lifestyle that is killing the planet? Well, I could go on... I welcome any dialog on this, since I'm just feeling things out and trying to understand why the human race has made a habit of stamping out life. Lastly, I'm not Christian-bashing. I'm really cautious to not want to offend anyone, but do need to be able to look at where I feel things went/are going awry. Lastly, thanks to y'all for what you're doing in this world. I've been needing to relate to others about Spirit in ag, and have only really found it on this list. Sure, BD isn't the be all end all, but it certainly is a huge breath of fresh air for me. Feeling my Eyes getting wider, Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 19 21:49:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA10028 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:49:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12621; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:38:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12387 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:36:04 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA01065 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:38:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:38:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md18-51.ix.netcom.com(205.184.107.51) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001046; Fri Mar 19 20:37:45 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <1999319213933611942@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Fwd: [cg] anti-Monsanto global protest - sins against Mother and Father X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 232 From: Community Food Security Coalition To: Community Food Security Coalition Subject: COMFOOD-L digest 57 Date: Thu, Mar 18, 1999, 12:01 AM On February 7, 1999, over 40 representatives of activist groups from around the world met in Cuernavaca, Mexico to share experiences and to plan a global grassroots campaign against the Monsanto Corporation and genetically engineered foods. While mass-based grassroots campaigns have partially blocked genetically engineered foods and crops thus far in Western Europe and India, activists in North America, South America, Africa, and much of Asia and the Pacific still have a long way to go in terms of grassroots education, Movement-building, and mobilization. Especially in the United States activists have been stymied by a powerful Monsanto lobbying and PR campaign that has coopted or bought off the Congress and the White House, intimidated the media, and forced several dozen unlabeled, untested genetically engineered foods onto the marketplace. At the present time 51.3 million acres (out of a global total of 69.5 million) of US farmland are planted in genetically engineered crops, including 45% of all cotton crops; 32% of soybeans; 25% of corn; and 3.5% of potatoes. In addition 700,000 dairy cows are being injected with Monsanto's rBGH every two weeks. Most non-organic processed food in the US now contains at least trace levels of genetically engineered ingredients. To help build the kind of U.S. and global Movement required to bring Monsanto and the other GE Giants under control, and to move global agriculture and global economic development in a sustainable and organic direction, food and agriculture activists at the February 7 Cuernavaca meeting endorsed the call for Global Days of Action against Monsanto and genetic engineering on April 15-30. The interim Monsanto Campaign steering committee of Vandana Shiva (India), Mika Iba (Japan), Tony Clarke (Canada), and Ronnie Cummins (USA) are calling on activists all over the world to step up their activism against Monsanto and genetic engineering, using the fourth annual April 15-30 Global Days of Action as a vehicle for amplifying our message, building our local and national activist networks, and further strengthening our international solidarity. Food Bytes was endorsed at the Cuernavaca meeting as an international clearinghouse for anti-Monsanto and Global Days of Action activities. If you are planning anti-Monsanto/GDA activities during April 15-30, please send us the details at Food Bytes so we can inform the media as well as activists all over the world. And of course in Western Europe and India, where nearly every day has now become a Global Day of Action against Monsanto and genetic engineering, keep up the good work! Further details on the April GDA will be posted on the web at http://www.purefood.org Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 00:45:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11689 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:45:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA27177; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26913 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:30:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max16-5.stc.net [208.210.138.133]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA10051 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:33:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F16A62.6EE4DE9A@ihug.co.nz> References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:10:03 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 233 >Hugh Lovel wrote: > >> I'm of the thought that the trouble with most BD farms today is they aren't >> really developing very fast or very far in terms of life forces. They DO >> have more life forces than the farms around them, and they congratulate >> themselves on this and let it go. But on a scale of 1 to 100 they see their >> neighbors at 2 or 3 and themselves at 8 or 9 and think how far they've come >> when they should be thinking how far they have yet to go. > >When we started down the BD path we were told that after 3 years we >would have a biodynamic farm. After 5 years we thought we were beginning >to make progress. After 10 years we felt the farm was more "alive" and >now look eagerly towards the 20 year mark. At that time I believe the >farm will truly begin to have a life of its own. >The road may be long, the destination far, but the journey is sweet. > >Regards > >Ian Buckingham >Maungatawhiri >New Zealand Ian, No doubt your experience has been shared by numerous others. In my own case the first 8 years I was backing up, and the next four I saw a little progress. The next ten achieved the goal of a farm I felt was alive. Well, that's a long time! Sheesh! I've long thought that though this is the norm, it should be the exception. I've seen reason to believe that land can be brought to life in a much shorter time and to much fuller life in the same amount of time. I don't think it is just some special touch that I've developed a special flair for this sort of thing. It's something that I find inexplicable. I may not be all that good a farmer in terms of making things pay, and as you can tell by reading my contributions to this list, I like to communicate rather than keep my nose to the grindstone fencing, hauling rocks, forking manure, etc. But nowadays if I want to bring a piece of land to life I figure out what is required and I don't waste much in either time or resources. I'm reminded of when I worked bridge construction in Atlanta, about the time I quit moving backwards farming and began to make progress. I started on this crew under the bridge salvaging out all the lumber from previous form work for reuse. I soon saw that most pieces were very similar, only varying by a couple inches total and quarters and eighths of an inch at a time. I couldn't see any reason not to do the best job I knew how so as I pulled nails and stacked I sized everything and marked the sizes on each piece. I could see that if this was done a carpenter need only grab the right piece and nail it in, no cutting, no waste of time or materials. So I did this. Then I was soon put up on the bridge and was building overhang formwork. The leader of the steel tieing crew that followed us around month after month finally remarked to me, "You guys waste less wood than anyone I've ever seen. Well, truly our scrap pile was really small, and we sent fewer saw blades in to be sharpened, put up our overhangs faster, the whole bit. All from seeing that I could mark the size on every piece and what all that would save. One fellow said, "You're working yourself out of a job!" "Of course." I responded. "That's so I can go on to the next job. I wouldn't want to be stuck on the same job forever, would I?" Quite naturally I want to get my BD preps to work, and with the cosmic pipe I'm getting them out there the best I've ever seen. But I lime when I have to lime, I supply boron if that's needed, or grit if that's needed; I put out seeds, bird feed, I work through a series of successive plantings, I sow mixed covers, etc. My harvesting and care of crops may look messy to some, but it's good for the land. I'm far from weed free, for instance. But that's good for the land. Hugh Williams remarked upon seeing my market garden, "I love your rough culture." Well, I could see it was good for the land to do things that way, even if it was not all that good for production. And if I see some pest or disease consuming a crop, I write it off. Maybe I could save it, but I can see it'll never be as healthy as I'd want to eat. So when people ask me what I do about the bugs, probably expecting all kinds of sophisticated procedures, I say, "I just watch. Sometimes I learn something." And this may not be good for production or the bottom line, but it is good for my land and for my customer who doesn't buy something I've had to rescue. Needless to say my farm is not the common stereotype of a well-run farm. But I can bring soil to life PDQ (pretty durn quick). Recently I've been learning to bring the atmosphere to life too. Now I'm getting soil and atmosphere to interact better and better. I'm learning more and more about the interplay and what sucks the life forces up from the depths and inhales them from the heights--what minerals, what plants, what activities, what timing and cycles. And I'm just scratching the surface of the potential that's there. Biodynamic farming has a finger to find the pulse and a key ring with enough keys to fit the locks and yet, I see mostly modest progress with very conservative expectations and even more conservative results. Quite frankly I'm puzzled that it has taken biodynamics so long to get where it is today. It's not the fault of biodynamic philosophy. This stuff is really powerful! The preps are really potent medicines. I'm increasingly surprised at how potent. I'm just learning now, after 23 years and lots of insight and success, how to really do BD. Surely I'm not the only one ever to have this experience. I know others. For example, Harvey Lisle realized after nearly thirty years that if he put his preps in his compost pile in little vials they wouldn't be digested by the pile and would work as well at the end as at the beginning--and then he could put these same preps in his new pile! Steiner drew an illustration (in the second discussion, page 110, AGRICULTURE) of how the preps radiate their influences through the pile, so Harvey tried his idea and it worked. In fact it is the most workable method I've seen. It both works better and is more economical. Anyway I'm puzzled, just like I was puzzled when I realized I must mark the measurments on every board I salvaged under the bridge. How come nobody else wrote down the measurments before? How come there's so much foot dragging on the thought planes and so much drudgery in the physical? Why are we making such slow progress in the successful development of more BD farms? Puzzled, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 01:18:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA11926 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:18:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA28967; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:07:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28913 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:06:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.164] ("port 2052"@[148.233.186.164]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8V00M3E8P35W@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:46:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:47:36 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: the price of freedom for all life In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <199931905446617421@ix.netcom.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id BAA28914 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 234 >That's only survival, however, just tactics. > >The long range view, the strategic question of how will we craft a wiser >social order begs for answers on the borders of our thought. We must >address this issue. We can't go much further with just tactics. > >It's deserving of a lot of thought. > >Best, > > >Hugh Lovel >Blairsville, Georgia > >"No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." >--Walter Russell Hi Hugh: You are an author, can I suggest you write a book or a few articles on the subject and putting forward the issues that most be taking to the border of our thoughts in order to shift to a new social-economic-political order paradigm. (probably in the light of agriculture). I am sure many on this list will be glad to cooperate in the project, if only someone with your experience and clarity would take the stand. I for one, would humbly cooperate with my thoughts and appreciation of things. Probably we all, and with the help of visionaries like RS, could come up with a strategy. For me it would be good, given that confussion and the need to compromise with the status quo are always there in my life decisions. Be well and thanks Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 01:24:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA12019 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:24:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA29218; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:13:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA29186 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:12:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 25070 invoked from network); 19 Mar 1999 23:15:35 -0700 Received: from ts2-01.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.152) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 1999 23:15:35 -0700 Message-ID: <36F33D0B.87EA61BF@cyberhighway.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:15:40 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Dancing Moon X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD No-till/Preps radiating References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 235 Hugh Lovel wrote: > For example, Harvey Lisle realized > after nearly thirty years that if he put his preps in his compost pile in > little vials they wouldn't be digested by the pile and would work as well > at the end as at the beginning--and then he could put these same preps in > his new pile! Steiner drew an illustration (in the second discussion, page > 110, AGRICULTURE) of how the preps radiate their influences through the > pile, so Harvey tried his idea and it worked. In fact it is the most > workable method I've seen. It both works better and is more economical. Oh, Hugh, please expand on this. I've read it and thought about it, and I still don't quite get it. If the preps radiate their influences through the pile, does that not expend those forces? If not, then why do we need to keep them in peat moss until we use them? Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 02:41:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA13035 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:41:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA02312; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:30:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA02164 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:27:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max19-82.stc.net [208.210.143.81]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA16586 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:29:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F33D0B.87EA61BF@cyberhighway.net> References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:07:42 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD No-till/Preps radiating Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 236 >Hugh Lovel wrote: > >> For example, Harvey Lisle realized >> after nearly thirty years that if he put his preps in his compost pile in >> little vials they wouldn't be digested by the pile and would work as well >> at the end as at the beginning--and then he could put these same preps in >> his new pile! Steiner drew an illustration (in the second discussion, page >> 110, AGRICULTURE) of how the preps radiate their influences through the >> pile, so Harvey tried his idea and it worked. In fact it is the most >> workable method I've seen. It both works better and is more economical. > >Oh, Hugh, please expand on this. I've read it and thought about it, and >I still don't quite get it. If the preps radiate their influences >through the pile, does that not expend those forces? If not, then why do >we need to keep them in peat moss until we use them? > >Pam DeTray >psdetray@cyberhighway.net Dear Pam, Are the forces of a stained-glass mandala expended as it radiates upon the altar? And for that matter, sticking the preps in the pile is not much different than keeping them in peat moss. Both are highly organic materials that attract life forces. It's a little difficult to realize that in the world of dead things what prevails is the second law of thermodynamics, the rule of ever increasing entropy, ever increasing disorder, the rule that things go from higher concentration to lower concentration. The opposite is true in the world of living things. The second law of thermodynamics does not apply and things grow from being less ordered to being more ordered. Life energy, life forces, go from lower concentration to higher concentration. You even see it in love affairs that people of remarkable similarity will get together. For some reason, in school we are mostly taught about the world of dead things to the exclusion of the world of life. So don't feel bad for being chained around the neck by such tenuous strands of instruction and belief. Slip your chains. Break out. Open your thinking to what really happens with life. Think how and under what conditions it multiplies--you'll never be the same. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 02:56:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA13094 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:56:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA03348; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:45:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA03315 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:44:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max19-82.stc.net [208.210.143.81]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA17187 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:47:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199931905446617421@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:25:22 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: the price of freedom for all life Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 237 > >Hi Hugh: > >You are an author, can I suggest you write a book or a few articles on the >subject and putting forward the issues that most be taking to the border >of our thoughts in order to shift to a new social-economic-political order >paradigm. (probably in the light of agriculture). > >I am sure many on this list will be glad to cooperate in the project, if >only someone with your experience and clarity would take the stand. I for >one, would humbly cooperate with my thoughts and appreciation of things. > >Probably we all, and with the help of visionaries like RS, could come up >with a strategy. For me it would be good, given that confussion and the >need to compromise with the status quo are always there in my life >decisions. > >Be well and thanks > > >Guillermo Romero I. Dear Guillermo, A start might be reading something like Steiner's THREEFOLD SOCIAL ORDER, which I think may be back in print under another title. I'll have to think about this. It's not like I have nothing else to do. But no doubt social commentary will burst forth from my keypad like starshells over a battlefield from time to time. I don't seem to control when inspiration strikes. I found while in Wisconsin at the Upper Midwest Organic meet that a former apprentice, Farmer D, had been having his first taste of political activism--and liking it. Having any effect on things politically is nearly hopeless--but not quite. If we bring our genius and industry to bear you might be surprised what comes from it. What IS completely hopeless is to lapse into apathy, or perhaps worse yet, to violently destroy that which you purport to save. Shades of abortion bombers for the cause of the right to life! Why doesn't someone comment on my post about the potential of genetic modification for planetary enslavement? Seems to me this is the kind of issue that argues that it is necessary to become politically aware and active. Who is doing the GMO stuff? Corporations. What is a corporation? What are the laws like that corporations are able to get away with so much as they do? Who is aware of this kind of thing? Anybody? Well, it's time to become aware. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 03:16:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA13251 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 03:16:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA04108; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 03:06:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA04066 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 03:05:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([203.96.104.39]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990320080902.BMAF682101.mta1-rme@default> for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:09:02 +1300 Message-ID: <36F35808.655C@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:10:48 +1300 From: Rambler Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Horn clay /heavy clay soils/no till Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 238 Dear Tony and BD list folk. I also have a heavy clay soil 12 inches of clay loam over 8 ft of yellow clay with the odd iron pan on some parts of the property, which means cultivation problems when conditions are wet.When I was a chemical grower sometimes I would have to make 3 or 4 passes with the rotary hoe using a 40 hp tractor and would have to cultivate again after heavy rain. Since I have been a Bd grower, I started in March 1993 with aprep 500 spray I have observed the following. Improved drainage in within 15 to 18 months of using prep 500. 50 to 60 year old field drains started to work again. I could drive a tractor over my paddocks 3 to 4 days after heavy rain normally I would have had to wait for weeks or months for the land to dry out enough. I can now cultivate with a set of tine cultivaters using a 26 hp tractor to a depth of 10 to 12 inches after 2 or 3 passes. I do a worm count 3 x a year around about autumn, winter and spring soltice with counts averageing between 100 and 150 worms per sq metre My compost is spread as a layer 1 to 2 inches deep over the surface and the worms are pulling the compost down into the clay subsoil and each years cultivation is getting easier and the soil is more friable and is very easier to plant seedling plugs into. This has been achievedby using Prep 500 Barrel Compost and heaps of BD compost and a little green cropping mainly weeds and the growing of blue lupin as a green crop and mulched . Thanks to the Hughes posts on horn clay I will now put down some horn clay this autunm and apply it in the spring and observe what happens with excitement as my clay soils have a history of locking up nutrients and 2 of my oldests growing houses have not changed as quickly as the other 6 and are still causing me some concern. Cheers Tony Robinson Rambler Flowers. New Zealand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 09:13:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16162 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18686; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:01:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA10068 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:54:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max17-34.stc.net [208.210.139.34]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA21976 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:57:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F35808.655C@xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:35:23 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Horn clay /heavy clay soils/no till Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 239 >Thanks to the Hughes posts on horn clay I will now put down some horn >clay this autunm and apply it in the spring and observe what happens >with excitement as my clay soils have a history of locking up nutrients >and 2 of my oldests growing houses have not changed as quickly as the >other 6 and are still causing me some concern. > >Cheers >Tony Robinson >Rambler Flowers. >New Zealand Tony, Right on! Hugh Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 09:13:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16164 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18731; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:02:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA15643 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp199.cy-net.net [208.21.195.8]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20757 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:12:53 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE729F.B38D48E0@FLYLO>; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:03:05 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE729F.B38D48E0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: Evil Empire Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:53:45 -0600 Encoding: 41 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 240 I've thought about trying to comment on Hugh's posts: << (Why doesn't someone comment on my post about the potential of genetic modification for planetary enslavement? Seems to me this is the kind of issue that argues that it is necessary to become politically aware and active. Who is doing the GMO stuff? Corporations. What is a corporation? What are the laws like that corporations are able to get away with so much as they do? Who is aware of this kind of thing? Anybody? Well, it's time to become aware.)>> I don't know where to start. Having worked for Conoco (also part of the EE system, being a subsidiary of DuPont), I can say that talking about Monsanto like it is a great many headed beast is slightly off course. But not totally untrue. going after it as a whole is a mistake. Who are the heads of the departments in the areas that are creating the GE seeds? How much say-so do they have. What do their families feel about the results of their actions. Is the paycheck to pocketbook the only motivation for all concerned? Why not go after Delta Pine? Would it be easier to track the GE trail from that company? When does either company meets with stockholders and board members? Are there any open (civilian) meetings ever held? Where do they handle complaints for each company aspect? CEO's only really deal with overall blanket 'what's going to improve our company'. Their decision making actually is fairly limited. Most of the acts are already implemented or ready to be implemented by the time it reaches this level. Dig deeper and find out the infrastructure and work on the smaller roads before going for the Monsanto freeway. You may come up with the discovery that it is really XYZ ag labs that is funded by Monsanto to create these 'wonder seeds'. And that lab could be having an attack of consciousness on it's own. May not take much to convince them of all possibilities. just a thought. I doubt that any outside forces will stop the flow of the GE tide at this point. I do hope that within the corporate structure, there are people who are also gardeners, farmers, concerned parents, who have looked with awe at their new creations only to have that awe turn to horror at the extensive possibilities. This is the level that change within a big company will have to occur. They have to know about RAFI, so some will have to wonder which side is actually right. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 09:13:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16176 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:13:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18812; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:02:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16523 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:22:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10OLkY-0006Ka-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:25:14 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3A0AE.938435CA@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:20:46 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: horn clay References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 241 Dear Hugh, Unlike 500, horn clay really does not dissolve very well in water (even during a one hour stirring time). So, I think you have to dissolve it first in a bit of water (warm) and then add it to the barrell. that is my observation. Regards Ferdinand Hugh Lovel wrote: > > Dear Hugh- Where in the spraying sequence does horn clay fit in, > >would you spray after the 500 and before the first application of 501? > >Would you always try and time your horn clay application with a post-501 > >spraying. Is there any horn clay available for the '99 season? with > >earthy regards, Parker > > I'll soon have some spring to spring horn clay. I think that's not the > best, but the best I presently have for manual application. > > There's many ways of looking at this. Suppose you try the following. Spray > the horn clay one evening, then the 501 the next morning, the 500 that > evening and the horn clay again the following morning. Or use your > intuition if you have better ideas. > > Best > > Hugh Lovel > Blairsville, Georgia > > "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." > --Walter Russell -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 09:13:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16186 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:13:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18778; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:02:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16502 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:22:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10OLkA-0006K3-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:24:50 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3A096.9AB89E27@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:20:22 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: [Fwd: E-mail address for Demeter Switzerland, please] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------893FA4F17680DB6BAC9A25FE" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 242 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------893FA4F17680DB6BAC9A25FE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To anybody interested in BD in Switzerland, please contact the above address. Regards Ferdinand -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 --------------893FA4F17680DB6BAC9A25FE Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by gouda (mbox ferdy) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Mar 19 14:06:46 1999) X-From_: Demeterbd@aol.com Thu Mar 18 23:56:39 1999 Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.7]) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Nu8w-00078H-00 for ferdy@direct.ca; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:56:34 -0800 Received: from Demeterbd@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 3KZUa04832 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 02:55:42 -0500 (EST) From: Demeterbd@aol.com Message-ID: <746f19d0.36f202fe@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 02:55:42 EST To: ferdy@direct.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: E-mail address for Demeter Switzerland, please Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: AOL 2.5.i for Windows sub 2 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 The email-adress of DEMETER-Schwitzerland is: Kuefferheer@access.ch. Best regards DEMETER-Bund e. V. Petra T=F6lkes --------------893FA4F17680DB6BAC9A25FE-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 09:13:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16194 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:13:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18877; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:02:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16537 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:22:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10OLkN-0007aq-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:25:03 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3A0B8.79BFC4CF@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:20:56 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> <36F16A62.6EE4DE9A@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 243 Ian! Congratulations! That's what I call a realistic approach to BD. My observation is this: Until the sun has gone through all the zodiac signs, (from the moment I have started to work my land bio-dynamically) I really cannot really speak of a true BD farm. Each 'house' brings new aspects to the farmer and the farm (plants, animals, soil). And from then onwards, the second set of 12 years makes it even more interesting. Yes, it will take sweet time. All the best. Ferdinand I & K Buckingham wrote: > Hugh Lovel wrote: > > > I'm of the thought that the trouble with most BD farms today is they aren't > > really developing very fast or very far in terms of life forces. They DO > > have more life forces than the farms around them, and they congratulate > > themselves on this and let it go. But on a scale of 1 to 100 they see their > > neighbors at 2 or 3 and themselves at 8 or 9 and think how far they've come > > when they should be thinking how far they have yet to go. > > When we started down the BD path we were told that after 3 years we > would have a biodynamic farm. After 5 years we thought we were beginning > to make progress. After 10 years we felt the farm was more "alive" and > now look eagerly towards the 20 year mark. At that time I believe the > farm will truly begin to have a life of its own. > The road may be long, the destination far, but the journey is sweet. > > Regards > > Ian Buckingham > Maungatawhiri > New Zealand -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 09:13:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16202 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:13:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18929; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:03:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16569 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:22:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10OLkf-0007bG-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:25:22 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3A0CB.F0F4136F@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:21:15 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF Re: Sins against the Mother References: <67df0311.36f2b89e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 244 Well said, Christine. Regards Ferdinand Lilipoh@aol.com wrote: > GEO Consensus BDNOW > From: tawndor@bellatlantic.net (Steven McFadden) > Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org > Reply-to: bdnow@envirolink.org > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > In a message dated 99-03-18 09:15:48 EST, you write: > > << We stand in unified opposition to the disrespectful and fundamentally > anti-democratic impulse of >>>>government<<<<< business and science to rush > these experiments out into the natural world, and into the food chain for > humans and animals with no notice, no debate, and no choice. > >>>>>>>>>So, what are we going to do about it????????<<<<<<<<<< > >>>>>>.....and we will take whatever measures we can..... to publicly > protest......(will we, is that our role??)<<<<<<< > Protest: 1. unscientific quackery ("cure-all") > 2. the danger to life > 3. unfair trade practices > I can't think of any spiritual aspects. > Christine -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 09:14:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16212 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:13:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18987; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:03:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16758 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:25:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp199.cy-net.net [208.21.195.8]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA21481 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:28:14 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE72A1.D97CF9E0@FLYLO>; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:18:27 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE72A1.D97CF9E0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: Inform the Media? become the media Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:13:46 -0600 Encoding: 14 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 245 Catching up on old mail so if this has come up since, sorry for the repost. But something Beanman said about informing the media about going against GE and Monsanto Corp on April 15 - 30. too short notice to work, but if anyone is talented in the areas of film or fiction, write this story up as pure science fiction. Make the results something that can be understood by the masses who flock to get mindless in front of the movie screen. Call it ANNIHILATOR. Invite famous Action Figures to play key roles. (and a group of Bioneers really do 'save the day'.) in this story anyhow. Later they can realize, Life really does 'follow art'. No one has to know it started out the other way around. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 09:14:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16220 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:14:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA19030; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:03:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA17771 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:44:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10OM5S-00079s-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:46:50 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3A5B7.77307A11@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:42:15 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: preps humor & Potentising Preparations References: <01BE7180.D1F99560@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 246 Dear Martha! Firstly, I am sure you read Dr. R. Steiner's Agricultural Course. Then you know that quantity is not the name in BD. It is quality. I am sure Highland cattle will provide this, too. However, IF the moment came and the 'farmers of this world' would realise what Preparation 500 (and 501) can do for their fields and crop, neither all the cow horns of all the cown on Mother Earth nor their hooves plus the Horses' manes (which can be used too!) would be enough. The demand would VASTLY outstrip supply!! We have to find totally new ways to use EVEN less preparation(s) (per acre) than indicated by Dr. Steiner's. We may have to potentize the final product i.e. 'thin it down' further. In other words: it is of utmost importance that we find NEW ways of how we can make more (Preparations) out of less (starting material such as horns, intestines, stag bladders etc. etc.). That's the reason I have been working for years on finding ways to make potentized BD Preps. I believe I have found some solutions. A lot remains to be done. I am convinced the day will come when we have to step forward and present our findings so that large sclae cathastrophes can be avoided or reduced. You see the times have vastly changed since 1924. We have reached a point in the evolution of this earth which Dr. Steiner had hoped could be avoided. Extraordinary efforts are demanded from each of us. Martha Wells wrote: > Now, I know a variety of things are packed into cow horns, but for the life > of me, having collected skulls and horns a lot, I can't figure out what > that little dab could do, the amount packed inside a single horn is rather > small. But, I've seen Ferdinand's photo of his horn 'wheel' and I'd imagine > quite a bit of finished material would be unearthed, given the quantities > of horns he uses. > Then it hit me. The reason everyone on list is wild for Scotch Highlands is > that they have horns longer than our fabled Texas Longhorns. Bury a stack > of those and now you're getting somewhere. > On the other hand, you'd have to wait quite awhile because they're said to > be very long lived cows. (martha) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 10:03:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA16655 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:03:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA22214; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:52:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22089 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:50:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10ON7m-00028M-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:53:18 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3B539.F827EF8@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:48:25 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture looking downward References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 247 More and more: we are influenced by very strong and significant forces that are streaming towards the surface of this earth from the very core of it. As much as there should be an astronomy and astrology of the cosmos, we need an astronomy and astrology of the depth of this, our Mother Earth. There are 'cosmic' events happening beneath our feet that may unlock the (at times strange) behaviour of mankind. If we make an effort of thinking just a bit about what 'dangers' lie beneath us (and beneficial events), we may come to understand that looking downwards may be of 'even greater' significance than looking outward. However, looking downward demands that we become as well trained as the Druids who were able to 'see' through stone. Christ has united himself with the earth and in the process of bringing healing energies to us, is changing the entire 'subterranean' cosmos. Some of Robert Powell's books may be of interest in this connection. However, Dr. Steiner gave countless lectures on this topic, too. Regards Ferdinand Hugh Lovel wrote: > So is this too weird? What say you spiritual, star-watching servants of the > earth? > > Searching, > > Julie > > Julie, > > The idea that life on this planet is affected by the streams of life forces > from both inner and outer planets, to say nothing of the Sun, and that this > all works in the context of the widest reaches of the cosmos (via the > constellations) is not wierd at all. It is what is happening. We fool > ourselves into thinking we are independent of such things because we have a > certain degree of emancipation from the rhythms and cycles. We think maybe > the idea that the stars affect us is crackpot. But actually this is where > life comes from and goes to and we are just fooling ourselves to think > otherwise. > > Best, > > Hugh Lovel > Blairsville, Georgia > > "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. > If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. > Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting > that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 10:24:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA16843 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:24:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA23428; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:13:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA23258 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:11:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10ONRz-00033B-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:14:12 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3B9E1.9977BAEC@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:08:17 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Milk....... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 248 Dear friends, When slaughtering cows, we had to kill a few from a dairy herd. What a shock. I, now, call their milk PUSS MILK. You should have seed the udders. Totally deformed. Some hollow. Inflamed. Possibly Antibiotically treated. How can one drink such s.it? I felt sorry for the cow (tears) and disgusted. Never again 'regular' milk on my table. Forget it. Drink Rice Milk, Soya Milk, Almond Milk. As indicated in an earlier post. The threshold of milk production (for a cow) was passed around 1980 when the weight (of milk) had reached a volume that stripped the cow of most of its etheric life body. I have not studied the latest developments, however, with hormones and other input production may be pushed even higher and the cow, then, will collapse in full (if she has not already done so). >From an etheric point of observation the following: It appeared to me as if the cow (dairy herd cow) was surrounded by a dark, if not black, ring. What appears to be (somewhat) colorful circles that surround otherwise (somewhat) healthy cows, nothing of the same could be seen around the dairy herd cow. As a matter of fact said cow(s) - a number were killed - appeared to be blown up like a balloon (hollow or void of the life color patterns which other cows display). The wild, cancerogene mass of this cow (sorry for such a comparison, however similar colors and pictures also appear in such context) this mass appeared to be inhabited by the strangest, un-cow-like forms and 'colors' I have ever seen. Keep your hands off the meat and milk. Regards Ferdinand -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 11:27:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17402 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:27:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29022; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:17:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28732 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:13:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.136] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.136]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8W00LBLI8AVB@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:09:52 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:15:52 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: Milk....... In-reply-to: <36F3B9E1.9977BAEC@direct.ca> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id LAA28733 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 249 >Dear friends, >When slaughtering cows, we had to kill a few from a dairy herd. What a >shock. I, now, call their milk PUSS MILK. You should have seed the >udders. Totally deformed. Some hollow. Inflamed. Possibly Antibiotically >treated. How can one drink such s.it? I felt sorry for the cow (tears) >and disgusted. Never again 'regular' milk on my table. Forget it. Drink >Rice Milk, Soya Milk, Almond Milk. As indicated in an earlier post. The >threshold of milk production (for a cow) was passed around 1980 when the >weight (of milk) had reached a volume that stripped the cow of most of >its etheric life body. I have not studied the latest developments, >however, with hormones and other input production may be pushed even >higher and the cow, then, will collapse in full (if she has not already >done so). > >>From an etheric point of observation the following: It appeared to me as >if the cow (dairy herd cow) was surrounded by a dark, if not black, >ring. What appears to be (somewhat) colorful circles that surround >otherwise (somewhat) healthy cows, nothing of the same could be seen >around the dairy herd cow. As a matter of fact said cow(s) - a number >were killed - appeared to be blown up like a balloon (hollow or void of >the life color patterns which other cows display). The wild, cancerogene >mass of this cow (sorry for such a comparison, however similar colors >and pictures also appear in such context) this mass appeared to be >inhabited by the strangest, un-cow-like forms and 'colors' I have ever >seen. Keep your hands off the meat and milk. Regards Ferdinand Hi Ferdinand: I do not know if I understood your post correctly or if I am twisting things around for my own sake, let me ask. So what you are saying is, that a cow is willing to share some of it's milk with us humans (with no ill effects either to her or it's calfs), but we have abused the benefits manipulating things to reach whatever milk output threeshold traspased around 1980. Can you say something about the "healthy" level of milk that a cow would be able to share, without putting the calf on supplemental or substitute feedings, and without stealing her etheric wellbeing. I am a vegan and I do not like keeping large animals for my own use, but in order to achieve the whole farm organism, I do see the need to have some animals and small cows will be my prefered choice. >From a nutritional point of view, I do not believe cow's milk is that necesary for humans (not even small children) but, mainly because of cultural habits, some amount is always used around our house. On the average and in the form of cheese, yogurt, butter, cream, etc, the amount that our family of four consumes is around 1 liter (1 quart) per day. Do you think that a cow will be willing to share that amount with us ?. I am not at all interested in the meat, a little on the milk, but a lot in the s.it (as you put it) and in the company. Can you put some numbers in your appreciation of things, please. Kind regards friend. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 11:33:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17451 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:33:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29661; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:23:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29569 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:22:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.136] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.136]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8W0011ZIMGV4@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:18:22 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:24:24 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: horn clay In-reply-to: <36F3A0AE.938435CA@direct.ca> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 250 >Dear Hugh, >Unlike 500, horn clay really does not dissolve very well in water (even during >a one hour stirring time). So, I think you have to dissolve it first in a bit >of water (warm) and then add it to the barrell. that is my observation. >Regards Ferdinand > Dear Ferdinand: So far Greg, Hugh and yourself are the only persons on this list that, to my knowledge, have used horn clay. Can you please comment on the effects you appreciate by it's use and elucidate on the mechanics of it's action. If there are any other BD members with experience using horn clay, I would also enjoy and benefit from your experiences. Many thanks Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 12:40:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18062 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:40:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA06033; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:29:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05953 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:28:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0213.direct.ca ([204.244.83.29] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10OPaZ-0007Ds-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:31:12 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3D9DF.3468A1DE@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:24:47 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Etheric Seeing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 251 The calamity of GE and the MONSANTO-NOVARTIS attacks on soil, plants and animal has to do with one important thing, I believe: the unwillingness or inability (or whatever) of human beings to fully engage in the art of etheric seeing. There will not be any materialistic science (X-raying, Chromatography, Christallisation, Kirlianic Photography, Vibrational Techniques, Infrared Photography etc. etc.) that can reveal what etheric seeing can reveal. Steiner's disciples are 'at fault' that this ability has not (could not) been develop. They shoot down anybody who indicates anything 'smaking' of etheric seeing. They attack vigorously with comments such as: '...this is atavistic...' '...Dr. Steiner has warned of it.....' '.....it is not objective......' '.....it is dangerous....' and so forth. How much more dangerous is X-raying, may I ask or the simple us of a Cellular phone (possibly causing brain cancer...)? Any new technique IS prone to cause 'problems' and may involve the user in 'highly dangerous' incidents (for example the first flying machines....) One has to develop a system (possibly subjective) and work with it for a while. During Deborah Byron's visit I did a 20 minute Barrell Compost Stirring (and showed her the etheric seeing technique). She will report later next week. During the stirring process, it became clear why Maria Thun asks for 20 minutes and why Ferdinand speaks of 6 minutes. I am sure that one can physically check my findings, too and get some confirmation. I am, however, of the opinion that Etheric Seeing gives us the possibility to CLEARLY warn (and give indications) of certain dangers that may arise if and when we do GE or whatever. Let Science follow it up afterwards with its very expensive and time consuming methods. In due course Science will realise that Etheric Seeing is far more cost efficient (and I repeat COST efficient, as nothing else will help) to detect challenges, problems and the like than using their ancient, destructive methods of trail by error. Regards Ferdinand -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 12:40:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18070 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:40:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA06088; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:29:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05970 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:28:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0213.direct.ca ([204.244.83.29] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10OPal-0007Ep-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:31:23 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3D9EF.5E3D6D24@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:25:03 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Slipping onto the background for a while, saying good bye! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 252 Dear friends, Spring planting, seeding, even calving and intensive forestry work has started again. For that reason, I will disappear into the background for some months. If I should unsubsribe, please do not think that it has to do with any part of difficulty of BDNOW - it has to do with the outside work. Regards Ferdinand -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 13:10:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18361 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:10:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09018; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:59:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08811 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:57:44 -0500 (EST) From: HILAWRIGHT@aol.com Received: from HILAWRIGHT@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hFIOa03706 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:59:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <87546937.36f3e213@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:59:47 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: biodynamic viticulture Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 118 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 253 I'd like to make contact with anyone working in biodynamic viticulture. Does it matter whereabouts in the vineyard you bury your horn manure? Also, a winemaker in France once told me about the qualities of different kinds of animal manure - excitable nervous horse, earthy rustic pig, etc - which he was experimenting with. Has anyone had experience with this? Hilary From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 13:56:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18867 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:56:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA13345; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:45:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from send204.yahoomail.com (send204.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.128]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA13292 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:44:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990320184903.29325.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.205.40.10] by send204.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:49:03 PST Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:49:03 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re: Spring Equinox To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 254 Parker (or whomever may know), In your equinox comments you've mentioned watercress (which i've heard is really full of nutrients). Watercress is Nasturtium Officianalis. Here's my query. Around here in Charlottesville va they have land cress or 'creesy greens' as the older black folks call it. Can you tell me what the difference is between the two either with the latin name, characteristics, or even (especially) the nutrients? Watercress here is around a dollar for 3 ounces, and travels some distance, landcress is grown locallly and 69 cents to a doollar a pound. What about the growning season/range of watercress? Anyone with specifics please chime in! Bruce Ritchie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 14:16:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19139 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:16:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA14951; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:06:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA14804 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:04:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-018.midcoast.com [208.153.20.118]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20224 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:07:57 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990320135211.007d9c90@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:52:11 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Re: the price of freedom for all life In-Reply-To: References: <199931905446617421@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 255 Hugh, Guillermo, and others, Perhaps we can become aware together. Recently, I had a conversation with a friend who has been working with BD gardening for a year or two about social awareness. I gently tried to bring up the subject of "forces of darkness", which have a different agenda than "forces of light". Her response spoke to the fact that the light is in the dark and its all one. She wasn't ready to look at the fact that everything is not warm and wonderful -- there are spiritual forces, spiritual beings, and human beings who are intent on limiting the evolution of humanity. At one level of consideration, her statement is absolutely true, for example, -- the center and periphery are one in the same at the point of infinity -- however, there is much to be learned by studying the relationship between the infinitely inward at the center and the infinitely outward at the periphery. My goal is not to explain as much as it is to shine light upon that which wishes to stay in darkness and far from conscious sight. So here goes. First, let's contemplate the human force of will. Last winter my new partner Kathleen and I bought a farm in midcoast Maine, USA. The farm was established in 1813 by one of two brothers who dammed up the river near the farm and built a saw mill. The barn they built has beams that are 48 feet long and at their large end are 15x15 inches or larger. Some time around the turn of the last century they decided to move this 48x60 foot barn about a half of a mile or so. People did amazing things with horses, ropes, and will forces back then. How do our will forces compare to the forces people had 100 years ago? How does our physical strength compare? If we were transported back 185 years would we have the forces to do what these men and women did? A few months ago I was standing in line at a Chinese restaurant weighting to be seated and over heard a conversation between a four year old boy and a woman (probably his Aunt) who he had not seen for a long time. She asked him about his schooling, his allergies, health, etc. She concluded their conversation by saying "we are all very sick". I don't think she knew how true her words were. The fact is that humanity has been deeply weakened in many ways. Health and strength are no longer the norm, but are the rare exception. Why is this? What are we not seeing? >From my 20+ years Study of Anthroposophy I have read much about human evolution and the gift of freedom which is being given to human beings. I have also read that there are spiritual beings who wish to take this freedom from humanity so that they might supplant the forces of light. I have felt the cold touch of these beings in my heart and have seen people give up their freedom and begin to serve the darkness. Why is it so hard to stay with the light? My simplistic answer is that we individually lack the forces within ourselves to transform social life. Why is this? Is this just the way it is? Is there a plan which is working to keep humanity weak? I believe there are several secret brotherhoods who serve the forces of darkness. They want to keep us weak so that we will be unable to accept the gift of freedom which is being offered to humanity. How do they keep us weak? POOR NUTRITION! To begin with, processed foods containing white flour, white sugar, hydrogenated vegetable oils take more forces from us than they give. These foods and their processed cousins impair our thinking. Alcohol, drugs, caffeine, tobacco, sugar, and any other addictive substances (or processes) impair our capacity to be present with life. They numb our heart forces. They prevent us from being truly social, even though we are told these addictive substances make us "more social". Who is telling us that alcohol makes us social? POISONS? How are the forces of the cosmos and Earth being distorted by electromagnetic fields, radio and micro wave transmissions? Who had the idea that we should totally enclose the Earth in a microwave field generated by several hundred sat alights? What is this doing to our will forces? What is this doing to the life forces in our plants and animals? What is this doing to our capacity to accurately perceive spiritual forces? Lastly, we need to consider the effects of allopathic prescription drugs, vaccinations, mercury amalgam, and root canals. Each of these "treatments" take more of our health than they give to us. How does their removal of "symptoms" prevent us from being heled through the light and life of vibrational medicine. > > Why doesn't someone comment on my post about the potential of genetic modification for >planetary enslavement? Who is doing the GMO stuff? Corporations. What is a corporation? > Oh yes, I almost forgot, GMOs. If food bring us forces from the cosmos when we eat it, then the forces that come to us through GMOs must be examined closely. What does the forces and intention for "roundup ready" do for us when they are attracted to us during digestion? Is this going to give life to us or take life from us? If it gives life to us in the same way that it saves the life of soy beans when exposed to Roundup, then what is the quality of that life? Is this a new type of slavery? Does the powerful being of "Roundup Ready" seek to be our master or our servant? Does it seek to control our thinking, feeling, or willing? > >Who is aware of this kind of thing? Anybody? > The secret brotherhoods are fully aware. Simply do research on the origin of white sugar in the diet and mercury as "medicine". These seemingly unrelated poison came from the same source at the same time in history. The secret brotherhoods are not new, only their tactics are new. Talk of conspiracy causes strong reactions in people. Some react with absolute denial, disbelief, and anger. For others it is depression, overwhelming fear, and resignation. For still others (myself included) it is simply a fact of living in the age of Mi-cha-el. These facts from the dark side of events related to human evolution can summon up forces within us. Heartfelt courage can be one of the spiritual gifts of this age. For me, the spiritual perspective of GMOs is that they offer us another opportunity to connect with one another and to realize that social transformation occurs through social interdependent. Its another opportunity to answer the call of Mi-cha-el. Will we wake up to the call of the spiritual world or just turn on the TV and let its anti-conscious vibrations put us to sleep? In 1995 I happily worked as a freelance technical writer. I wrote books about computer software, was heavily involved with the Anthroposophical Society, The Christian Community, and numerous civic organizations. My life was turned up side down when my wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer. She died in 1996. I sold our home in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, along with its fancy contents, and began to look for the future that was trying to speak to my heart. So, here I am, a 43 year old blind man, living on a farm which is trying to become biodynamic. Am I crazy? Foolish? Arrogant? The answer is probably "yes" to each of these questions. The more important question, for me, however, is "am I listening to the voice within myself which is asking me to leave the comfort zone and to make a commitment to bring healing to the Earth and to humanity. A day does not go by when I don't question this commitment, and a day does not go by when I do not see the healing force that pores into my life and the life of this farm. It is better to fail at living in the light of truth, than to succeed at dwelling in the darkness of complacency. Thanks John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA At 02:25 AM 3/20/99 -0400, you wrote: >> >>Hi Hugh: >> >>You are an author, can I suggest you write a book or a few articles on the >>subject and putting forward the issues that most be taking to the border >>of our thoughts in order to shift to a new social-economic-political order >>paradigm. (probably in the light of agriculture). . . . SNIP >>Guillermo Romero I. > >Dear Guillermo, > . . . SNIP >Why doesn't someone comment on my post about the potential of genetic >modification for planetary enslavement? Seems to me this is the kind of >issue that argues that it is necessary to become politically aware and >active. Who is doing the GMO stuff? Corporations. What is a corporation? >What are the laws like that corporations are able to get away with so much >as they do? Who is aware of this kind of thing? Anybody? Well, it's time to >become aware. > >Best, > >Hugh Lovel From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 14:25:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19376 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:25:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA15769; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:15:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15659 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:13:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.5]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:17:59 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:16:35 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Message-ID: <12F51C893EAFEFD58525673A006777E1.006995658525673A@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 256 << Andrew wrote: "...what does all this GMO stuff mean spiritually? ... what does this biotechnology really mean for the long-term soul and spiritual well-being of humanity?...(snip) I suspect it has also much to do with discovering the means by which to create life force... (and snip) By working with spiritual, rather than just material forces and substances? Can we begin to discuss this part of biodyanmics?">> Dear Friends on Bd-Now, In all this discussion of Monsanto and even of building up the soils, there has been comparatively little talk of the spiritual componant of this work that is biodynamics. I discovered, (as many of you know) biodynamics quite by accident by being a member of a bd csa. For many years, I felt blessed and simply delighted in the wondrous food that I received each week that was so full of life force. It was only many years later that I discovered that my food was produced through a "spiritual" system of agriculture and started reading Steiner. It was actually the discovery of this list a couple of years ago, that brought me to a fuller (though woefully incomplete) understanding of just how blessed I was to be able to eat food like this each year. Although I have not eaten much in the way of processed food over the last twenty years, I do however, being a city dweller quite often eat at restaurants. Since learning more and more about GE foods, Monsanto's (yeah, Chris, for sure) Darth Vader politics, I find it increasingly difficult to even justify the occasional meal out, unless I go to one of the very few really consciously politicized vegan restaurants in town. The really scary part, is that I am an educated consumer. For me the most frightening aspect of GE is that most of the public is uninformed, unable to really get informed unless they have a vested interest in food already. Especially in cities, where people are on a track (whether through conscious choice or unconscious circumstance) whereby they simply do not make the time to inform themselves about these very important issues. I find that most people who do think about food that I know, think about cutting fat out of the diet, or eating less meat, but this does not stop them in any way from eating food that is totally devoid of life force, not to mention still being on a processed food diet. So, here's what I'm trying to say. If even in a forum such as this, where indeed there has been much talk over the years of a spiritual nature but that 'spiritual sense' is still NOT the main kind of intelligence being applied to growing food, how can we expect a mass population, who perhaps is NOT inclined to any spiritual practice, to have any kind of spiritual take on the mad technologists rush to claim the secret powers of nature as their own? As for this community, I very much enjoyed the dialogue on soil, but perhaps missed the talk of Devas, nature spirits, intuitive choices for soil building, and heard instead much talk of science's way of measurement or chemical construction. I would love to hear more from this community specifically about their individual spiritual 'techniques' that they use on their farms, as Ferdinand describes in his posts about etheric seeing. When I gave the example of the church usurping the energy of healers and community gardens it was in part to illustrate that the idea of those in power, trying to "discover the life force" has been around for a long time; the people who have traditionally been more in touch with that energy and the means to work WITH it, have for centuries suffered annihilation and destruction at the hands of those in power for their knowledge...Look at indigenous Indian populations, not just witches. So it was a comment about the historical patterning of those with political power who really have no spiritual power, trying to wipe out any reminder of their inablility to "create life". I am not anti religion, anti-science, nor anti technology, I think those can all be useful tools when used properly. But I tend to agree, that the best hope for our future is in something like the broadscale education of our "unseen" senses, our intuitive vision and the inspiration of love. If more people could eat more nutritious food, and open up their hearts (which comes first?) then perhaps our "mass" culture could shift from one of "mass destruction" to one of "mass communion". Best Regards and a Blessed & Happy Spring to you all, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 15:09:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20050 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:09:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19394; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:57:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19111 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:54:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp7.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.107]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA22894 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:54:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <003801be730b$5c6c79c0$6b4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Milk....... Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:53:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 257 Dearest Ferdy, As one of your biggest fans, (which you know) I have always placed your insights & instructions in the "best & most useful" file, both practical & otherwise. I have learned a great deal from you. I am trying to understand this post...are the cows & herd you observed from a specific place or farm near you? I would suggest, most humbly, that although I do not possess your gift of etheric sight, that finding the milk from a cow or farm that is managed with love (and of course BD or at least organic feeds & forages) is your best defense against ingesting abnormal, unnatural or blackened energy from milk or meat products. When you give up on the cows, Ferdy, quit drinking milk, you leave them to the factories, the Monsantos of the world who will buy up the land of small farms, place the cattle in confinement, cut their tails, leave them on concrete their remaining days, to bear their babies in gutters, etc. But if you perhaps, seek the improvement of the current conditions, not by boycotting all milk & meat, but instead speak by supporting family farms who produce milk humanely & have only enough cows to call each by name, and rub their spines, & scratch their ears, well, you have done a far better thing. They are part of us, our planet, and they have to be somewhere - let's keep them with us. Got milk? Julie PS...I'd skip the Soya Milk if I were you...Round up Ready beans are EVERYWHERE!!! -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 9:14 AM Subject: Milk....... > >Dear friends, >When slaughtering cows, we had to kill a few from a dairy herd. What a >shock. I, now, call their milk PUSS MILK. You should have seed the >udders. Totally deformed. Some hollow. Inflamed. Possibly Antibiotically >treated. How can one drink such s.it? I felt sorry for the cow (tears) >and disgusted. Never again 'regular' milk on my table. Forget it. Drink >Rice Milk, Soya Milk, Almond Milk. As indicated in an earlier post. The >threshold of milk production (for a cow) was passed around 1980 when the >weight (of milk) had reached a volume that stripped the cow of most of >its etheric life body. I have not studied the latest developments, >however, with hormones and other input production may be pushed even >higher and the cow, then, will collapse in full (if she has not already >done so). > >>From an etheric point of observation the following: It appeared to me as >if the cow (dairy herd cow) was surrounded by a dark, if not black, >ring. What appears to be (somewhat) colorful circles that surround >otherwise (somewhat) healthy cows, nothing of the same could be seen >around the dairy herd cow. As a matter of fact said cow(s) - a number >were killed - appeared to be blown up like a balloon (hollow or void of >the life color patterns which other cows display). The wild, cancerogene >mass of this cow (sorry for such a comparison, however similar colors >and pictures also appear in such context) this mass appeared to be >inhabited by the strangest, un-cow-like forms and 'colors' I have ever >seen. Keep your hands off the meat and milk. Regards Ferdinand >-- > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest >into an >understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar >World Forest >Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 16:22:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20832 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:22:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27548; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:10:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27394 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:10:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10OT30-0002Nj-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:12:47 -0800 Message-ID: <36F40D8B.DF2E30B3@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:05:15 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: horn clay References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 258 Dear Guillermo, The year has to unfold first before I can make any comments. I'll come back to this later. I asked Greg HOW to store Horn Clay to which I never got an answer. I kept it in my storage room IN the horn. We shall see. Regards Ferdinand Guillermo Romero wrote: > >Dear Hugh, > >Unlike 500, horn clay really does not dissolve very well in water (even during > >a one hour stirring time). So, I think you have to dissolve it first in a bit > >of water (warm) and then add it to the barrell. that is my observation. > >Regards Ferdinand > > > > Dear Ferdinand: > > So far Greg, Hugh and yourself are the only persons on this list that, to my knowledge, have used horn clay. Can you please comment on the effects you appreciate by it's use and elucidate on the mechanics of it's action. > > If there are any other BD members with experience using horn clay, I would also enjoy and benefit from your experiences. > > Many thanks > > Guillermo Romero I. > Comala, Colima, MEXICO > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 16:22:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20841 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:22:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27471; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:10:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27165 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:08:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10OT1I-0002HJ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:11:00 -0800 Message-ID: <36F40D21.1DBD4366@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:03:29 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Milk....... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 259 Dear Guillermo, Guillermo Romero wrote: > >Dear friends, > >When slaughtering cows, we had to kill a few from a dairy herd. What a > >shock. I, now, call their milk PUSS MILK. You should have seed the > >udders. Totally deformed. Some hollow. Inflamed. Possibly Antibiotically > >treated. How can one drink such s.it? I felt sorry for the cow (tears) > >and disgusted. Never again 'regular' milk on my table. Forget it. Drink > >Rice Milk, Soya Milk, Almond Milk. As indicated in an earlier post. The > >threshold of milk production (for a cow) was passed around 1980 when the > >weight (of milk) had reached a volume that stripped the cow of most of > >its etheric life body. I have not studied the latest developments, > >however, with hormones and other input production may be pushed even > >higher and the cow, then, will collapse in full (if she has not already > >done so). > > > >>From an etheric point of observation the following: It appeared to me as > >if the cow (dairy herd cow) was surrounded by a dark, if not black, > >ring. What appears to be (somewhat) colorful circles that surround > >otherwise (somewhat) healthy cows, nothing of the same could be seen > >around the dairy herd cow. As a matter of fact said cow(s) - a number > >were killed - appeared to be blown up like a balloon (hollow or void of > >the life color patterns which other cows display). The wild, cancerogene > >mass of this cow (sorry for such a comparison, however similar colors > >and pictures also appear in such context) this mass appeared to be > >inhabited by the strangest, un-cow-like forms and 'colors' I have ever > >seen. Keep your hands off the meat and milk. Regards Ferdinand > > Hi Ferdinand: > > I do not know if I understood your post correctly or if I am twisting things around for my own sake, let me ask. > > So what you are saying is, that a cow is willing to share some of it's milk with us humans (with no ill effects either to her or it's calfs), but we have abused the benefits manipulating things to reach whatever milk output threeshold traspased around 1980. There is a fine balance between stressing a cow to the point where her halth is suffering (too high a production) and a calf that is to too weak to survive OR where she can give to us (milk) AND a healthy calf. Each breed has a somewhat different upper limit. Last year I took a course (in Finland) and if my memory serves me right, the 4,000 liter level was just about the right amount of milk for a Brown Swiss. That level (quantity) has been pushed to a multiple thereof where the cow basically is ripped to pieces. Most calves are too weak and will not survive for long if the mother cow has to produce 8 or 12 or more thousand liters of milk. . > Can you say something about the "healthy" level of milk that a cow would be able to share, without putting the calf on supplemental or substitute feedings, and without stealing her etheric wellbeing. I do not believe that a calf should be put on milk substitute. At present, we have a calf (Thomasina) - 4 months old - eating hay and a bit of grain. She was with her Mama until now and we will give her an additional 8 weeks. She is strong, alert, thik fur coat and is running with the crowd. Galloway/Hereford X. This calf will be an outstanding milker although the breed, as such, is not known for milk - rather for meat. However, she will have an extremely good 'book' i.e. the part in which the feed is being ground up. Her body measurements are close to the golden mean and I am as proud of this calf as can be. Likely the best we had so far. I'd say that an ounce of milk from her per day would equal one quart or more of those Friesen/Canadian monster cows giving 10 - 12,000 liters p.a. (about 3.300 gal/pa) > I am a vegan and I do not like keeping large animals for my own use, but in order to achieve the whole farm organism, I do see the need to have some animals and small cows will be my prefered choice. Yes, that is ideal and if you can keep a cow in your 'back yard' try it. I am saying 'back yard' - of course, the cow needs some land and space to walk. But it is a worthy experience for both human being(s) and animal. Cows and gazelles are very closely related, never forget that. Can you imagine a gazelle with an overwhelming udder? > >From a nutritional point of view, I do not believe cow's milk is that necesary for humans (not even small children) but, mainly because of cultural habits, some amount is always used around our house. On the average and in the form of cheese, yogurt, butter, cream, etc, the amount that our family of four consumes is around 1 liter (1 quart) per day. Do you think that a cow will be willing to share that amount with us ?. Depending on the breed of your cow, that should be no problem. You will likely get much more than one liter for home consumption, much more. Under normal circumstances and without force feeding, just a little bit of grain in the winter, we easily got 4,000 ltr p/a. This was the Finnish thresshold. Of course, at today's milk price, you could NOT make a living. The quantity of milk you get depends on how good your hay is and a number of other factors. But, remember, there will be a time when the production is going down (after about 15 months) and you may be lucky to get 5 - 6 ltrs per day. Then comes the moment when you dry her up. Goat keepers would claim that it is easier to keep a goat if the amount of milk has gone down that far. > I am not at all interested in the meat, a little on the milk, but a lot in the s.it (as you put it) and in the company. > > Can you put some numbers in your appreciation of things, please. > > Kind regards friend. > > Guillermo Romero I. > Comala, Colima, MEXICO > Guillermo, a good person to ask here is Juli Marquart - hello Juli, what do your numbers say? Regards Ferdinand -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 16:28:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20925 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:28:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA28185; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:16:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28049 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:15:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10OT8L-00014S-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:18:17 -0800 Message-ID: <36F40EEA.4875A7D8@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:11:06 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Milk....... References: <003801be730b$5c6c79c0$6b4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 260 Dear Julie! My emotions got the better part of me after what I have seen. Sorry. Cows the way you keep them, are cows from which I'd drink milk any time and right form the udder. Yes, boycotting milk is NOT the answer. The answer for all the food we consume is: know where it does come from. Sorry, if I caused undue problems. Love Ferdinand "Julie M." wrote: > Dearest Ferdy, > > As one of your biggest fans, (which you know) I have always placed your > insights & instructions in the "best & most useful" file, both practical & > otherwise. I have learned a great deal from you. > > I am trying to understand this post...are the cows & herd you observed from > a specific place or farm near you? I would suggest, most humbly, that > although I do not possess your gift of etheric sight, that finding the milk > from a cow or farm that is managed with love (and of course BD or at least > organic feeds & forages) is your best defense against ingesting abnormal, > unnatural or blackened energy from milk or meat products. > > When you give up on the cows, Ferdy, quit drinking milk, you leave them to > the factories, the Monsantos of the world who will buy up the land of small > farms, place the cattle in confinement, cut their tails, leave them on > concrete their remaining days, to bear their babies in gutters, etc. But if > you perhaps, seek the improvement of the current conditions, not by > boycotting all milk & meat, but instead speak by supporting family farms who > produce milk humanely & have only enough cows to call each by name, and rub > their spines, & scratch their ears, well, you have done a far better thing. > They are part of us, our planet, and they have to be somewhere - let's keep > them with us. > > Got milk? > > Julie > > PS...I'd skip the Soya Milk if I were you...Round up Ready beans are > EVERYWHERE!!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 9:14 AM > Subject: Milk....... > > > > >Dear friends, > >When slaughtering cows, we had to kill a few from a dairy herd. What a > >shock. I, now, call their milk PUSS MILK. You should have seed the > >udders. Totally deformed. Some hollow. Inflamed. Possibly Antibiotically > >treated. How can one drink such s.it? I felt sorry for the cow (tears) > >and disgusted. Never again 'regular' milk on my table. Forget it. Drink > >Rice Milk, Soya Milk, Almond Milk. As indicated in an earlier post. The > >threshold of milk production (for a cow) was passed around 1980 when the > >weight (of milk) had reached a volume that stripped the cow of most of > >its etheric life body. I have not studied the latest developments, > >however, with hormones and other input production may be pushed even > >higher and the cow, then, will collapse in full (if she has not already > >done so). > > > >>From an etheric point of observation the following: It appeared to me as > >if the cow (dairy herd cow) was surrounded by a dark, if not black, > >ring. What appears to be (somewhat) colorful circles that surround > >otherwise (somewhat) healthy cows, nothing of the same could be seen > >around the dairy herd cow. As a matter of fact said cow(s) - a number > >were killed - appeared to be blown up like a balloon (hollow or void of > >the life color patterns which other cows display). The wild, cancerogene > >mass of this cow (sorry for such a comparison, however similar colors > >and pictures also appear in such context) this mass appeared to be > >inhabited by the strangest, un-cow-like forms and 'colors' I have ever > >seen. Keep your hands off the meat and milk. Regards Ferdinand > >-- > > > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > >C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest > >into an > >understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar > >World Forest > >Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 > > > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 21:06:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23659 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:06:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA25836; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:54:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25613 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:52:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d160.infoserve.net [199.175.157.160]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA20206 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:57:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002101be733d$e7b5c040$a09dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: bee weekend with B. Hauk Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:54:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE72FA.C52CF180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 261 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE72FA.C52CF180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, especially to the bdnower from Courtenay. A little while ago, there was an announcement about Hauk coming to the = Island. Could you repost it please. Many thanks, Michael ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE72FA.C52CF180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello, especially to the bdnower = from=20 Courtenay.
  A little while ago, there was = an=20 announcement about Hauk coming to the Island. Could you repost it = please. Many=20 thanks, Michael
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE72FA.C52CF180-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 22:07:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA24115 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:07:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA01117; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:54:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00977 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:53:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p00-93.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.168]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id UAA29283 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:56:51 -0600 Message-ID: <007f01be7357$680d3e80$a8f2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: Re: Spring Equinox Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:56:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 262 Bruce- sorry I can't help you with the nutrients, but my intuition tells me that the watercress which appears in the spring and fall here, near springs where water is moving fast enough but not too fast, is higher in nutrients than the land cress (garden cress?). I have eaten plenty of both and realize a real kick from the springfed cress. We like eating a spring salad of watercress, chick weed, nettle, and violets. This really packs the good vibe power! Parker -----Original Message----- From: bruce ritchie To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Spring Equinox > > > > >Parker (or whomever may know), > In your equinox comments you've mentioned watercress (which i've >heard is really full of nutrients). Watercress is Nasturtium >Officianalis. > Here's my query. Around here in Charlottesville va they have >land cress or 'creesy greens' as the older black folks call it. Can >you tell me what the difference is between the two either with the >latin name, characteristics, or even (especially) the nutrients? >Watercress here is around a dollar for 3 ounces, and travels some >distance, landcress is grown locallly and 69 cents to a doollar a >pound. What about the growning season/range of watercress? Anyone with >specifics please chime in! Bruce Ritchie >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 22:53:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA24674 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:53:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA05129; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:40:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04781 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:36:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10OZ4z-0007Zh-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:39:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36F46800.48A7835B@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:31:12 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Horn clay / Clay Soil References: <36F2818E.32EA@cwcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 263 Dear Tony, As many a Sussex (England) fellow may be able to tell you, clay has the tendency to make people a bit melancholic. I spent six years on clay soil and really felt its influence. Regards Ferdinand Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > Dear Hugh and other wise folks - I have heavy clay about 1-2 feet down, > I don't know how deep (have never found the energy to dig far enough > down). So far, my efforts have all been to open it up by digging in > compost, leaf mould, fibrous pond dredgings etc. How do my needs to > energise this clay compare with yours in open sandy soil? Tony N-S. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 23:15:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA24872 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:15:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA06525; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06358 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:56:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10OZNw-0001M6-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:58:49 -0800 Message-ID: <36F46C80.61934746@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:50:24 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Milk....... and a few more thoughts! References: <003801be730b$5c6c79c0$6b4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 264 Dear Julie, I had to come back to your post once more in order to answer a few of your questions in more detail. Let me do so by inserting them into your post further down: "Julie M." wrote: > Dearest Ferdy, > > As one of your biggest fans, (which you know) I have always placed your > insights & instructions in the "best & most useful" file, both practical & > otherwise. I have learned a great deal from you. I thank you ever so much! > I am trying to understand this post...are the cows & herd you observed from > a specific place or farm near you? They were from a high production unit with over 100 milking cows - and they always slaughter the cows that do not produce any longer to fill their quota. > I would suggest, most humbly, that > although I do not possess your gift of etheric sight, that finding the milk > from a cow or farm that is managed with love (and of course BD or at least > organic feeds & forages) is your best defense against ingesting abnormal, > unnatural or blackened energy from milk or meat products. Yes, Julie! High(er) production unit that are BD do, according to my observations, do not have the same negative aura, although we must be extremely careful not to fall into the same quantity gap with the BD method (if at all possible). However, I know some Ontario farms that have been trying to fight the milk marketing board - to no avail and have to sell their milk through regular channels. It is awful - a real problem! In BC, an egg 'producer' has won a landmark battle against the egg marketing board. He could prove (in court) that his hens were laying a different product (natural grain, fresh grass, free run etc.) than the hens in the 'high rise'. Perhaps there is a chance for the BD milk, too. > When you give up on the cows, Ferdy, quit drinking milk, you leave them to > the factories, the Monsantos of the world who will buy up the land of small > farms, place the cattle in confinement, cut their tails, leave them on > concrete their remaining days, to bear their babies in gutters, etc. Yes, that is true. We, too, are buying (if and when needed) the extra BD milk form (imagine) Quebec that has travelled 3,000 miles. Yes, it costs much more, however, we do two things: we support the farmer and also the life of the cow(s). I know that we have to pay double of the regular milk prize, however, we simply drink half. Dr Steiner, at one point in a lecture, indicated that milk (cow I think) ought to be consumed by the younger people and honey by the older. > But if > you perhaps, seek the improvement of the current conditions, not by > boycotting all milk & meat, but instead speak by supporting family farms who > produce milk humanely & have only enough cows to call each by name, and rub > their spines, & scratch their ears, well, you have done a far better thing. Yes, once more! And I wish to repeat what I said in an earlier post: it must become a habit to find out where exactly our food is coming from and how it was produced. Isn't it strange that we make such a fuss about gasoline (the engine may seize...) yet, we put almost anything into hour heads...! > > They are part of us, our planet, and they have to be somewhere - let's keep > them with us. > > Got milk? > > Julie > > PS...I'd skip the Soya Milk if I were you...Round up Ready beans are > EVERYWHERE!!! I understand that this has become a real problem. I will keep that in mind. > With kindest regards Ferdinand > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 9:14 AM > Subject: Milk....... > > > > >Dear friends, > >When slaughtering cows, we had to kill a few from a dairy herd. What a > >shock. I, now, call their milk PUSS MILK. You should have seed the > >udders. Totally deformed. Some hollow. Inflamed. Possibly Antibiotically > >treated. How can one drink such s.it? I felt sorry for the cow (tears) > >and disgusted. Never again 'regular' milk on my table. Forget it. Drink > >Rice Milk, Soya Milk, Almond Milk. As indicated in an earlier post. The > >threshold of milk production (for a cow) was passed around 1980 when the > >weight (of milk) had reached a volume that stripped the cow of most of > >its etheric life body. I have not studied the latest developments, > >however, with hormones and other input production may be pushed even > >higher and the cow, then, will collapse in full (if she has not already > >done so). > > > >>From an etheric point of observation the following: It appeared to me as > >if the cow (dairy herd cow) was surrounded by a dark, if not black, > >ring. What appears to be (somewhat) colorful circles that surround > >otherwise (somewhat) healthy cows, nothing of the same could be seen > >around the dairy herd cow. As a matter of fact said cow(s) - a number > >were killed - appeared to be blown up like a balloon (hollow or void of > >the life color patterns which other cows display). The wild, cancerogene > >mass of this cow (sorry for such a comparison, however similar colors > >and pictures also appear in such context) this mass appeared to be > >inhabited by the strangest, un-cow-like forms and 'colors' I have ever > >seen. Keep your hands off the meat and milk. Regards Ferdinand > >-- > > > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > >C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest > >into an > >understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar > >World Forest > >Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 > > > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 23:22:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA24925 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:22:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA07613; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:10:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07205 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:07:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d140.infoserve.net [199.175.157.140]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24923 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:12:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002601be7350$bb8cd720$8c9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: Horn clay / Clay Soil Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:09:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 265 Ferdy, most interesting! As you know, Kahumana's soil is heavy in the volcanic clay base. Did you find an underlining melancholy with the inhabitant of Kahumana in your experience? Michael -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 7:45 PM Subject: Re: Horn clay / Clay Soil >Dear Tony, >As many a Sussex (England) fellow may be able to tell you, clay has the >tendency to make people a bit melancholic. I spent six years on clay soil >and really felt its influence. Regards Ferdinand > >Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > >> Dear Hugh and other wise folks - I have heavy clay about 1-2 feet down, >> I don't know how deep (have never found the energy to dig far enough >> down). So far, my efforts have all been to open it up by digging in >> compost, leaf mould, fibrous pond dredgings etc. How do my needs to >> energise this clay compare with yours in open sandy soil? Tony N-S. > >-- > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest >into an >understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar >World Forest >Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 23:36:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA25110 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:36:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA08399; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08314 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:15:57 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hFWYa17140 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:17:59 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <9c3609ce.36f472f7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:17:59 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: OFF: for Jane and other misc items Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 266 Dear neighbor in NY, I shouldn't muse in snatches. So part of the rest of the muse sort of went...we are all so aware that we are at a pretty intense crossroads, a cross that is already shaking us up. The wonderful thing about BDNOW is that we have the opportunity to meet and share ideas, so that no matter where we find ourselves after no matter how many crossings we can remain together in the common vision we are trying to form. However, my throwing out capacity is as great as my muse is short. Whoever has read up to here: I need help again with another post. I can't believe I threw it out. I have a letter from a woman worried about orthodonture for her young child. Can ANYONE help me retrieve the post about the child that was given curative eurythmy for crooked teeth? If not, I'll have to jump into the archives which fills me with dread. And, if you're STILL reading, could you please let me have times and dates of any significant events like BD talks, workshops, openings or whatever taking place in June, July, August. I will put them in the Calendar of Events of this upcoming LILIPOH. Thank you for your patience. Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 23:40:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA25128 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:40:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA09470; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:28:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09356 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:27:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10OZsD-00032i-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:30:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36F473D1.64ED187B@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:21:37 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Corporations and a call by Hugh Lovel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 267 Dear Hugh, If I had time to sit at my keyboard and hack away, I'd take U up on this one. Corporations. What an incredible change has taken place in the past years. About ten to fifteen years ago corporations and companies have shifted from a responsible management style (taking employees and the environment into consideration) to ROI (return on investment) - this on behalf of the so called shareholder. Whatever is done these days is done under the cover of: on behalf of the shareholder (which could include anybody on this BDNOW list who owns shares of any company or a bank, etc, etc.) I remember when someone invented that new catch phrase (we must do it for the shareholder). With this the responsibility slipped into the hands of an unknown, hidden entity which nobody knows or has met. From now on forward you could do anything, nay, had to do anything on behalf and for the shareholder (as long as you made a lot of money, and fast!). Some years ago I was involved in our family company. Employees and the world's environment etc. were key phrases. And then, my father died. A new bunch of people took over. I left. It became too gruesome. Immediately, the new shareholders demanded that they get more for their money - twice as much as, otherwise, they would be forced to withdraw their investment. Suffice it to say that the old spirit dyed quickly. And in the same way, hundreds and thousands of old family-run companies are being taken over by this >unknown shareholder< - subsequently split up, disected, parts sold off Whereas in the past, the owner could not easily disregard the wishes, ideas and suggestions of the people with whom he/she had started out with, the anonimous shareholder wants cash on the barrel head. In my corporation time I have watched a dozen or more fine family run enterprises slip into the hands of 'shareholders' and the bedazzling anonimous stock market - running up to the10,000 level - Dow Jones.....! Yes, profitability went sky high, yet, the companies have become a cancer to society. Before I close a small addendum: A few days ago I went to the feed dealer. A year ago he had taken on the recycling of bottles and cans (law in BC). There were hardly any feed bags left in his warehouse. Asked where the feed stuff was he said that he will give it up. No money in it.......... Tough world. Regards Ferdinand Regards Ferdinand Why doesn't someone comment on my post about the potential of genetic modification for planetary enslavement? Seems to me this is the kind of issue that argues that it is necessary to become politically aware and active. Who is doing the GMO stuff? Corporations. What is a corporation? What are the laws like that corporations are able to get away with so much as they do? Who is aware of this kind of thing? Anybody? Well, it's time to become aware. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 00:47:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA26023 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:47:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA14372; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:35:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14114 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:33:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Oatv-0006Ts-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <36F48334.A9C2A7AF@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:27:16 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives & a talk with wheat References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 268 Dear Andrew, May I suggest one practical thing: In order that we may find a difference ( I mean the etheric manifestation[s]) between a naturally pollienated seed (of, say, a certain wheat) and a GMO wheat of the same kind, may I suggest that those who have a balcony garden or a small lot or an inside yard etc. obtain such seeds (the natural and the GMO). Now, let them grow beside each other and watch - daily. Draw them! Describe them! Clay model their manifestations! Listen to them! Write poetry of/about them! Meditate and look at them and report back to us. May I add this. My wife, while studying at Emerson College a few years back bought herself a few roses and (what an ingenious idea) started a discussion with them. Not only did the roses reveal themselves (in pictures she painted and many pages of poetic material) but the rose told her who she was and is. I urged her to publish it: MY DISCUSSIN WITH A ROSE. Please, will anybody engage in a discussion with a GMO plant!!!!????? Regards Ferdinand Hugh Lovel wrote: > Andrew writes: > > >Friends, > > > >I started this thread with the hope that folks would contribute to the > >discussion around the notion, that somehow there must be a spiritual lesson > >in the GMO story - AND - hopefully something positive to set our energy > >into. I suggested that the research and development into genetics and > >biotech of various kinds, was mainly about getting a handle on the life > >processes (or life forces; speak: the etheric), rather than just on > >manipulating a specific plant's gene pool or making lots of money through > >genetic copyrights, patents and other forms of monopolies. I was hoping for > >some reflective feedback - and still am. > > > >My hope was further, that we might look together at the potential > >implications of our biodynamic work as a counterbalance (specifically around > >developing insight into life forces) to the GMO work being done. > >Specifically, what kinds of work are you all doing around studying, > >experiencing, working with the etheric forces? How is it that these > >corporations and government agencies, universities and private companies are > >spending these huge amounts of money on discovering how to plants > >with materialistic means only? Are we able to develop new plants, healthier > >plants, new varieties, etc. through other means? By working with spiritual, > >rather than just material forces and substances? Can we begin to discuss > >this part of biodyanmics? > > > >Curious, > >Andrew > > Here's one spiritual lesson that slaps me in the face. > > The mind involuntarily rejects information that is contrary to its > assumptions. One of the most telling assumptions pervading our world today > is that the winning strategies are uniformity and competition. We see it in > the world of sports with teams all dressed in uniforms competing. We see it > in our schools with all our standardized testing, uniform curricula and > competition for top scores. We see it in the military, in the job place, in > the supermarket and shopping mall, you name it. > > Yet, if we look at a fertile natural ecology we would see, could we only > set this assumption aside, that the winning strategy is diversity and > cooperation. We would see it in sports if we played chess with the masters, > or in education in a Waldorf school, etc. One of the key things that makes > America as successful as it is (if not good, at least better than most) is > we have such a diverse population and more often than not we cooperate > (though nowhere near as well as they cooperate in Japan). > > It should be easy to see that almost all plant breeding (not Alan > Kapuler's) is done with an eye to this pan cultural assumption that the > winning strategies are uniformity and competition. F1 hybrids were a big > step in this direction of uniformity and competition, and surely this was a > winning strategy for a number of companies and their investors, though a > losing strategy for most of us. GMOs, however, really is a million rocket > salute to the twin Gods of uniformity and competition. As such it will > really land us in quicksand and that will be a teriffic spiritual lesson. > > As for whether we are able to develop new plants, healthier plants, new > varieties, etc. through other means? Surely! Many folks seem to forget, > perhaps some WANT to forget, that in 1987 Barbara McClintock won the Nobel > prize in genetics for proving that corn mutated in every generation. "Well, > that's only corn. That's not anything else." said the many, fearful of > their jobs and the overthrow of their life's work. > > For several reasons the open pollenated Indian corn McClintock used was a > very easy plant to prove that mutation, most of it benign or even > beneficial, occurs with every new generation. But Rudolf Steiner in lecture > two says in effect that this is the situation with all plants, and we may > presume all organisms. Folks producing GMOs and patenting organisms > involuntarily reject this information seeing as how it is contrary to their > assumptions. They don't even notice the information. After all, if they saw > things as they truly are it would blow their whole game, and would give > them an inkling of what a scarry Pandora's Box they are lifting the lid of. > > The spiritual lesson here? One of the more valuable things we can do > spiritually is to examine our assumptions and start discarding, cleaning > up, opening our minds and utilizing our senses--all of them. > > Regards, > > Hugh Lovel > Blairsville, Georgia > > "If you want what visible reality can give, you're an employee. > If you want the unseen world, you're not living your truth. > Both wishes are foolish, but you'll be forgiven for forgetting > that what you really want is love's confusing joy." --Rumi -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 00:58:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA26092 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA15374; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:47:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15322 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:46:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10Ob6c-0004VS-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:49:02 -0800 Message-ID: <36F4865A.B73B8CCC@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:40:43 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: bee weekend with B. Hauk References: <002101be733d$e7b5c040$a09dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8EAB305784F807A17C9699AE" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 269 --------------8EAB305784F807A17C9699AE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just received the NEWSLETTER FOR THE ANTHROPOSOPHICAL COMMUNITY IN BC in which I read that Guenther Hauk (and not B. Hauk) will be at ONLINE FARMS in Courtenay, B.C. on Saturday, April 24th, 1999 in connection with the Bio-Dynamic Agriculture Society's AGM. Call 250-832-5401. Regards Ferdinand PS I do not live on Vancouver Island, as you know. Michael Roboz wrote: > Hello, especially to the bdnower from Courtenay. A little while ago, > there was an announcement about Hauk coming to the Island. Could you > repost it please. Many thanks, Michael -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 --------------8EAB305784F807A17C9699AE Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just received the NEWSLETTER FOR THE ANTHROPOSOPHICAL COMMUNITY IN BC in which I read that Guenther Hauk (and not B. Hauk) will be at ONLINE FARMS in Courtenay, B.C. on Saturday, April 24th, 1999 in connection with the Bio-Dynamic Agriculture Society's AGM. Call 250-832-5401.

Regards Ferdinand

PS I do not live on Vancouver Island, as you know.

Michael Roboz wrote:

 Hello, especially to the bdnower from Courtenay.  A little while ago, there was an announcement about Hauk coming to the Island. Could you repost it please. Many thanks, Michael

--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an
understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest
Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001
  --------------8EAB305784F807A17C9699AE-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 00:58:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA26100 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:58:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA15134; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:44:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14964 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:42:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ob33-00073W-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:45:21 -0800 Message-ID: <36F48568.C85A422E@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:36:40 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: a show of hands References: <01BE7245.0D1F0840@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 270 Dear Martha, An MD or ND may supply a better answer. Generally speaking, the skin of our hands (and for that matter the entire body) is wrapped in oils, acids and many a helpful bacteria. Last winter I spent some time at my friend's jewelry shop where he is cutting diamonds. There, he has magnifying glasses to the order of X500 and more. Innocently, I put my thumb underneath it and was shocked to see that I could look miles deep into my skin. Really, it looked like crevices, glaciers, mountains and so forth. Have you ever looked at your (clean) skin under such a microscope? Well, you will be in for a serious shock. Now, dirt particles, soil, sand, chalk, plant residues etc. etc. will get caught in-between those (tiny) cracks and enlarge the surface of the skin considerably. This, then, will permit air to dry it faster. The skin is simply not able to replace the water that it is loosing until some of the oils (that were removed by working in the soil) and the bacteria as well as other ingredients, are back to normal. Again, have a look at your skin (avoid the face as you may be shocked even further) and be perplexed - and DO IT before and after a work out in the soil. Regards Ferdinand PS Humus or even cow manure does not destroy the skin as much as certain clays or sand and cement. Martha Wells wrote: > Yesterday, I was digging in new soil. (*Well, new to me anyhow.) I was > making some room to put rosemary in amongst the newly forming herb bed, > planted out some cherry tomatoes, and dug around the sprouting blackberry > vines. Generally, had my hands in the dirt for a number of hours. > Normally, I can wash my hands after playing in the dirt and go about my > business, but I noticed they were very dry and 'stiff'. Even after washing, > they took quite awhile to get moisture back to skin surface. > Now, normally, I'd have just thought, ok, work in the garden, your hands > get dry and rough. (no real big deal). But I'm now wondering (thanks to you > BD gang) if the soil itself wasn't using or taking the oils and particles > from my skin surface. Well, it had to go SOMEWHERE, didn't it? martha -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 01:01:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA26129 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:01:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA15641; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:50:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15422 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:47:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10Ob7f-0004X8-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:50:08 -0800 Message-ID: <36F4869B.1491EBC@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:41:47 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Horn clay / Clay Soil References: <002601be7350$bb8cd720$8c9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 271 Having visited Kahumana for 14 years,well, I should say so. Regards Ferdinand Michael Roboz wrote: > Ferdy, most interesting! > > As you know, Kahumana's soil is heavy in the volcanic clay base. Did you > find an underlining melancholy with the inhabitant of Kahumana in your > experience? > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 7:45 PM > Subject: Re: Horn clay / Clay Soil > > >Dear Tony, > >As many a Sussex (England) fellow may be able to tell you, clay has the > >tendency to make people a bit melancholic. I spent six years on clay soil > >and really felt its influence. Regards Ferdinand > > > >Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > > > >> Dear Hugh and other wise folks - I have heavy clay about 1-2 feet down, > >> I don't know how deep (have never found the energy to dig far enough > >> down). So far, my efforts have all been to open it up by digging in > >> compost, leaf mould, fibrous pond dredgings etc. How do my needs to > >> energise this clay compare with yours in open sandy soil? Tony N-S. > > > >-- > > > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > >C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest > >into an > >understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar > >World Forest > >Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 > > > > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 01:05:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA26144 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:05:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA15860; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:53:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15756 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:52:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from alphalink.com.au (ppp39-0-Rosebud.alphalink.com.au [203.62.183.39]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA17551 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:53:55 +1000 Message-ID: <36F48A45.8673A7FF@alphalink.com.au> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:57:25 +1100 From: SJ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Secrets Of the Soil References: <36F48334.A9C2A7AF@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 272 Dear Bder's, I have the old edition of "Secrets of the Soil", does anyone think it is worth getting the new edition? are there many changes in the editon? Thank you and Kind regards, Stephen from the Great Southern Land....OZ....!!!!! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 06:55:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27889 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 06:55:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA01511; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 06:41:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA01436 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 06:40:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp335.cy-net.net [208.21.195.144]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA26092 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 05:43:34 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE735C.5D308940@FLYLO>; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 05:33:35 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE735C.5D308940@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Corporations and a call by Hugh Lovel Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 05:32:16 -0600 Encoding: 60 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 273 There is something new in corporate structure lately also, a different system designed by a combination of lawyers and psychologists. The 'cutting edge' managers are quoting HPWS, (High Performing Work Systems), and the Covey System, and some other 'touchie feelie' feel-goodisms. Dupont has an entire department called The Oz Network that makes up films on how to get the upper management and the actual grunt worker to look toward the same goals. That is everyone becomes responsible for the product and work. Many plants no longer have supervisors, they have 'resources' who can only guide the plant to peak performances, can't actually take any legit action. And, if you looked at the 'dream infrastructure' they don't show the general hierarchy, boss on top, product and customer outside that peak, with supervisors managers in the middle and layworkers going to the bottom. Managers and owners are now shown on the bottom giving push (encouragement) to the middle gang, resources and workers who are more directly involved in product and customer. There are all sorts of diagrams (pentagrams, stars, hexagrams, etc) to show the work flow and when there is a problem, the 'mapping' to get to the root of the problem and solve it. This is supposed to make everyone more of a 'hive worker' rather than everyone for himself and his paycheck. (One of the diagrams actually is a honeycomb pattern of overlay of responsibility.) This all sounds great but in actuality, it rarely works. "HONOR THE ENVIRONMENT" is a level but it's glossed over and barely mentioned. They have to by law, and that's about as token as they take it. The most important change in the infrastructure shows that the company as a whole are all SHARE OWNERS, who directly answer to share holders. By making the guy on production line a share owner on the same level as the corporate president, they all feel like they are responsible and proud to serve the customer and share holders. I went into this atmosphere as a temporary and from the outside, it looks pretty ridiculous to me. When there is a huge problem, there is no one responsible. (the core plan here, I think.) So, if you actually were able to confront what looks like the main core of the dept who is responsible for GE seed, (should Monsanto be a HPWS), there would be no one to actually address about the serious consequences when they don't honor the environment. In their way, compliance with EPA rulings, etc, they are ok with the environment, no matter what product they are producing. I've always thought that naming these unnatural facilities 'PLANTS' was a serious misnomer in itself. By calling themselves that, they are vying with Nature to take raw materials and produce an end result. (a car, a barrel of oil, a plastic bucket, etc.) About ten to fifteen years ago corporations and companies have shifted from a responsible management style (taking employees and the environment into consideration) to ROI (return on investment) - this on behalf of the so called shareholder. Whatever is done these days is done under the cover of: on behalf of the shareholder (which could include anybody on this BDNOW list who owns shares of any company or a bank, etc, etc.) I remember when someone invented that new catch phrase (we must do it for the shareholder). With this the responsibility slipped into the hands of an unknown, hidden entity which nobody knows or has met. From now on forward you could do anything, nay, had to do anything on behalf and for the shareholder (as long as you made a lot of money, and fast!). From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 09:04:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28464 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:04:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA07427; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:53:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07293 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:50:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-013.midcoast.com [208.153.20.113]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA16754 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:53:43 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990321083744.008350c0@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:37:44 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Re: OFF: for Jane and other misc items In-Reply-To: <9c3609ce.36f472f7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 274 Christine I can't find Ferdinand's post on his experience with his son's teeth. I found my post in response to it dated March 13, which was under the subject of "banding, docking, de-horning & etheric force". The subject was later changed to teeth. His original post was probably on March 12th. John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA At 11:17 PM 3/20/99 EST, you wrote: >Dear neighbor in NY, > >I shouldn't muse in snatches. >So part of the rest of the muse sort of went...we are all so aware that we are >at a pretty intense crossroads, a cross that is already shaking us up. The >wonderful thing about BDNOW is that we have the opportunity to meet and share >ideas, so that no matter where we find ourselves after no matter how many >crossings we can remain together in the common vision we are trying to form. > >However, my throwing out capacity is as great as my muse is short. Whoever has >read up to here: I need help again with another post. I can't believe I threw >it out. I have a letter from a woman worried about orthodonture for her young >child. Can ANYONE help me retrieve the post about the child that was given >curative eurythmy for crooked teeth? If not, I'll have to jump into the >archives which fills me with dread. > >And, if you're STILL reading, could you please let me have times and dates of >any significant events like BD talks, workshops, openings or whatever taking >place in June, July, August. I will put them in the Calendar of Events of this >upcoming LILIPOH. > >Thank you for your patience. >Christine > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 09:10:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28505 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA07677; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:59:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA07540 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:57:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 13497 invoked from network); 21 Mar 1999 07:00:19 -0700 Received: from ts2-34.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.185) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 1999 07:00:19 -0700 Message-ID: <36F4FB7A.2949EBA3@cyberhighway.net> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:00:27 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Moon Dancing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Ferd's teeth post Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1D93DC2DDE2E483DE0C9CDE1" Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 275 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1D93DC2DDE2E483DE0C9CDE1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------1D93DC2DDE2E483DE0C9CDE1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: psdetray@cyberhighway.net Received: (qmail 23592 invoked from network); 13 Mar 1999 09:35:17 -0700 Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (209.161.0.33) by spool2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 1999 09:35:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 23526 invoked from network); 13 Mar 1999 09:35:17 -0700 Received: from manatee.envirolink.org (HELO envirolink.org) (208.195.208.7) by smtp2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 1999 09:35:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01823; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:24:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01642 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:22:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10LrDY-0003J6-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:24:52 -0800 Message-ID: <36EA90BB.238C48AB@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:22:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: banding, docking, and de-horning & etheric forces References: <1215265F5B24@agecon.uga.edu> <36E930F5.70718922@direct.ca> <36E948EE.8D4DE3F9@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 My dear friend Rex, 18 years ago I had a son (who is now 25) who had the most deformed teeth arrangement one could imagine. I went to a dentist (in Germany) who happened to be an Anthroposophist. We discussed Chris' teeth and he said to me: There are two possibilities 1. We tear, re-set, brace and file or 2. You do Eurythmie (Dr. Steiner's movement) with him for a long time. IN the morning, for 10 minutes. Well, my son and I did it for 2 - 3 years. His teeth have re-arranged themselves totally. You see, Rex, the formative forces in our children (and animals) are starting to lose their connection to the creative centre (if one can simplify it that way). It is like an artist gone bonkers on a canvas without direction any longer. And so, the formative forces are 'painting' all over the place creating deformations in the most sensitive areas (and that, funny enough are the teeth and the skull). Here, the most intensive, the most exacting (again, if one want to call it that way) work has to be done (millimeter, thens of a millimeter work) so that the teeth fit onto each other. Well, if we do NOT love the creation, we will not go to work with it over long(er) periods of time. We are going to be challenged in our hearts. Cutting, trimming, operating, stunting, hacking etc. etc. are short term solutions which, as far as I am concerned, does not demand much love but rather technical know-how (well, a bit of love, too - to learn the techniqe). However, when you do Euruthmy with a child OR work eurythmically with nature, you have to become one with it first so that you may understand it better. You have to give up your (technical, preconceived) ideas and 'suffer' with the creation first BEFORE you can offer (short lived) solutions. Dr. Steiner's indications are indications for the very long term. Of course, we can see changes within a year or two when applying BD Preparations, however, the very long term changes will only become known in many, many generations. Again, much more could be said. Regards Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote "Let me say this": > > > The tail of any animal is connected to is psyche. Every animal expresses > > its feelings via its tail. I can see that with my (small brain Ostriches) > > and my dogs, the cat, horses, cows and all. If you cut that part of or > > shorten it, the animal tends to get out of balance. Nature would take > > care of this by eliminating such 'a creation'. Sheep that cannot signal > > their pleasure or displeasure to their mates would, eventually, be > > eliminated by the wolf. > > > > Of course, mankind has done a lot of diforming of animals by Xbreeding, > > off-breeding, inbreeding, outbreeding and so forth. Most animals that we > > call domesticated would likely not survive by themselves in nature for > > long. It is likely that (if such breeds would survive for a while) future > > generations would start to 'approximate' their ancestors again. > > > > My sister is breeding Rottweiler (dogs) and by law (in Switzerland) and > > as of the year 2000 tails must NOT be cut any longer. What a different > > looking dog a Rottweiler with a long tail is. It is mindboggling. And > > now, by the 'power of this long tail' the entire pivoting point of the > > dog is shifting to the back. It is as if a new organ (i.e. the old one) > > has been added again and it is MUCH easier to read this dog again. > > > > Much more could be said. > > MUCH MORE COULD BE SAID! Good grief, must you contiually astound me? Can we stretch your > thought to cover the pitifully thin facial organs of so many of today's mineral-poor children? > Can we go so far as to recognize that pulling children's wisdom teeth and using tortuous metal > braces to reform their very skull bones is as barbaric as cutting off Rottweilers' tails? Can > we finally understand that we are castrating our children by not providing them abundant > mineral-rich fare? > > I *really* appreciated this post. Right now I'm wondering if there is a long line of would-be > apprentices forming for the no-pay privilege of working shoulder-to-shoulder for a season with > a man who sees the universe in marvelous light. > > Regards, > Rex Harrill -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. --------------1D93DC2DDE2E483DE0C9CDE1-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 10:07:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28759 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:07:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10697; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:56:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10612 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:55:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem77.digisys.net [205.138.110.126]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA00985 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:58:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36F50971.57E795E1@digisys.net> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:00:01 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ferd's teeth post References: <36F4FB7A.2949EBA3@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 276 Ferdinand, The Dictionary says eurythmy is "a system of harmonious body movement to the rhythm of spoken words." Could you give us an example please. Pat Hironimus From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 10:10:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28788 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:10:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10864; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:59:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10770 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:57:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-5.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.6]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id HAA31295; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:00:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990321075408.0094d330@mail.kootenay.com> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:56:37 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Subject: Re: Astro-Agriculture Cc: whiteowl@digisys.net In-Reply-To: <36F14C4F.58501ABE@digisys.net> References: <004e01be7160$7a883ae0$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 277 Dear Pam and Pat: Barbara and Nate arrived home safely last evening before 10 PM. I think she bypassed Pat's place, just wanting to come on home. Lovely to have 'em back...of course! Regards to you both... Woody At 11:56 AM 3/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Julie and All .... let me add some astrological notation to Julie's fine >questions. > >Julie M. wrote: > >> Hi everyone.. >> >> Thought I'd pose some thoughts & questions to those sky-gazing farmers >> amongst us. Here, dairy [Moon, Virgo] farmers [4th house, Saturn, Capricorn] >> have just been slammed with a record drop [Saturn enters Taurus, transiting >> Mars turns retrograde] in > >> the Basic Price Formula (BFP) for February. Since I am a student of the >> stars, and the cows [Moon, 4th house] themselves, the milk [Moon, Cancer, 4th >> house] production & pricing [mundane chart: 2]seems to >> follow as oppty. to gain further insights into this mysterious cycle. >> >> (Sorry, I'm in tropical mode, but am a neophyte, and I do pay homage to the >> siderealist system, by planting by their calendar:-)) >> >> The likes of this "crash" have not been seen since 5/5/91. In comparing the >> two dates, both times Saturn was in early degrees of fixed signs & within a >> wide 7-degree orb of hard aspect to cardinal moons (3/5/99 - Saturn @ 0 >> Taurus opposed a 22-degree Libran moon. On 5/5/91 Saturn @ 6 Aquarius >> conjuncted a 29-degree Capricorn moon. Both times the aspects were at wide >> 7-degree orbs and applying. >> >> Interestingly, this most recent drop is the largest month-to-month decline >> ever, but is the 7th lowest price paid this decade. The govt. [Sun, Leo, >> Capricorn, 10th house] is stepping in >> with a Dairy Income Loss Assistance program, but the payment plan is fuzzy & >> no one will be seeing any real cash for quite awhile. As a result, expect to >> see MORE small family farms bite the dust, as it is they that are closest to >> living from milk check to milk check. This reminds me of Steven's note about >> Saturn entering very earthy, very agricultural Taurus, and the struggles we >> can expect to see. > >In the U.S. Chart (7/4/1776, 4:20pm LMT, Philadelphia, PA, Gemini Asc chart: >Koch house system) transiting Neptune has just recently moved into the U.S. 3rd >house. Neptune rules the U.S. 4th house and 16 degrees of the U.S. 3rd house. >Positive Neptune words are empathy, sympathetic understanding, contemplative, >Spirit. Not so positive Neptune words are: gullible, suspicious, taken >advantage of, exploited, being imposed upon, used, misused, milked-dry, the >gradual disappearance of something. Neptune in Aquarius on the positive side >relates to noble aims and aspirations; on the negative side it is fraud, >dissolving, vanishing, insincerity and the ability to easily influence others. >The 3rd house involves information dissemination, contacts with the public and >transportation of all sorts. The 4th house among other things is farming. > >Transiting Saturn is currently located in the U.S. 5th house (attitude or >actions of the governing body), and on 4/25/99 (tropical) enters the U.S. 6th >house (health conditions of the nation, inception of labor troubles and >strikes). Wherever transiting Saturn resides there is a reduction, a down turn >in things, belt-tightening time. Saturn is also an economic plant, and governs >agriculture (along with the 4th house and Cancer). Saturn is co-ruler of the >U.S. 2nd house (the values the government "subscribes to", what's important to >the government, the means the government uses to obtain its "cash flow"). > >The upcoming square between transiting Neptune and transiting Saturn can mean >many things. One of course being "tightening the screws" (Saturn) on farmers >and >agriculture in general by means of deluding (Neptune) the public (Moon) and >agriculture that chemicals, Monsanto & GE are good for our health (transiting >Saturn to the U.S. 6th house). Fortunately the square says "it won't be >easy". A >square says there's an obstacle and carries the energy of Mars. Transiting Mars >stations retrograde today in Scorpio. Transiting Mars retrograde suggests >there's a pause, stoppage, recess or lull in secret and behind-the-scenes >activities of the government (U.S. 12th house). Mars rules 12 degrees of the >U.S. 4th house (agriculture). Since transiting Mars retrograde is a >reevaluation >of a course of action or a cessation of interest, the previous drive and focus >in what might have been important to the government undergoes a reversal of >interest. > >Traditionally, Saturn rules Aquarius. That makes Saturn co-ruler of the U.S. >2nd >house (what our government "buys into" for the sake of the economic >bottom-line. >As we said, Neptune is in Aquarius in the U.S. 3rd house. Saturn says >"enough is >enough." Neptune suggests where the deceptive and fraudulent information is >coming from (U.S. 3rd). The square could potentially manifest as our government >losing interest in backing the chemical companies for the sake of a buck. > >Pat Hironimus >http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com > >> >> >> The other thing that is striking to me, is the recent movement of Neptune >> (chemicals, delusion) into scientific, intellectual, detached Aquarius. This >> seems to me to be the perfect setting for Monsanto & GE to challenge the >> truly traditional earthy agricultural methods (and in fact the actual >> 90-degree square that is about to occur between Neptune in Aquarius & Saturn >> in Taurus portends such a challenge!) Clearly Monsanto & its scientists are >> deceiving (possibly even self-delusion, that this technology will, in fact, >> feed the world - again, a humanitarian (Aquarian) representation, and much >> of the world is deluded, or apathetic at best. >> >> One more thing... I was really happy (finally a wonderful answer!) to read >> Glen's post to Parker about Tropical charts representing a more mundane view >> of an individual, and sidereal charts a clearer inner goal (did I understand >> this correctly?) then perhaps there is some insight to be gained into a >> sidereal assessment of what's happening w/agriculture? Because perhaps that >> is where the answer lies...what is happening here on a collective, inner >> level? >> >> So is this too weird? What say you spiritual, star-watching servants of the >> earth? >> >> Searching, >> >> Julie > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 11:34:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29420 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17669; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:23:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17573 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:22:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max16-15.stc.net [208.210.138.143]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10447 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:25:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <12F51C893EAFEFD58525673A006777E1.006995658525673A@webcity> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 05:33:52 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: OFF: Re: Spirit on the List Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 278 Jane Sherry writes: >Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > >In all this discussion of Monsanto and even of building up the soils, there >has been comparatively little talk of the spiritual component of this work >that is biodynamics. Dear Jane, I know what you mean. However, since we're not a society accustomed to discussing spiritual things, sometimes we may talk about them and not realize it. I am talking about the spiritual side of life when I: * Talk about turning biodynamic practice into more of an art rather than a rote procedure. * Talk about how the mind involuntarily rejects information contrary to its assumptions. * Talk about examining our assumptions and beliefs and clearing our path of our impediments to clarity. * Talk about the futility of giving advice when what is needed is cognition--which may be drawn out but cannot be "downloaded" to others. * Talk about the backwardness of thinking we must inform young minds when such information is meaningless and useless without a good grasp of the hidden connections, the underlying significances, which are something that must be drawn out via cognition in the educational process. Where are our teacher colleges that train teachers to ellicit, to educe? * Talk about the difficulty of making the world conform to our standards as compared to perceiving the standards of Creation and changing our standards to conform. * Talk about collapsed concepts and how they limit our understanding and conceptions. Some common collapsed concepts include thinking "making" is the same as "getting", "owning" is the same as "having", "money" is the same as "wealth", "effort" is the same as "accomplishment", ad nauseum. What a lot of trouble we can get into with collapsed concepts. Think about it. Looking words up in the dictionary with a keen and discriminating attitude is a most valuable spiritual exercise. I could go on and on. I season my posts pretty liberally with spiritual content when you stop to think about it. For one thing I try to evoke mental imagry with figures of speech and with what I hope are colorful examples that in-spire (again, spirit) thought on the part of readers. Art, it seems to me, is evocative of spirit, and to me evoking whimsical insights, wistful tender musings and colorful examples alongside profound general principles infuses spirit into this otherwise lifeless computer game. Ah, yes. The spirit is present under every mundane cloak, as matter cannot abide without spirit nor spirit without matter. What are you saying when you say something "matters" a lot to you? That fact that it matters to you anchors and fertilizes your spiritual growth, and forms the spiritual soil for your inner development. When you think about it this way there's a lot of spirit on this list. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 11:46:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29566 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18666; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:35:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.153]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18542 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:34:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.4.178]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:37:58 +0000 Message-ID: <36F520A2.31DC@cwcom.net> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:38:58 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Horn clay and clay soil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 279 Thank you, Ferdy, for your comments. I realise that I have lived on a clay soil all my life (born on London clay) so I'd not really know what to measure my degree of melancholy against. Being on the spring line under a hill, I feel pretty sad now, when I can see tufts of rushes sprouting on my waterlogged lawn - but I know I'll feel happier in late summer, when others are complaining about the drought. Sorry to read that you're ducking out for a bit, I always look forward to your wise words. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 13:50:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA00991 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:50:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA02891; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:39:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02695 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:38:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.4]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:42:47 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:41:21 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Re: Spirit on the List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 280 Great Post Hugh, Why has this now become an OFF subject prefix? Has this discussion somehow gone OFF topic for you? Actually I think we could put both the thread you began on corporations into the thread about the Spiritual Perspective on GMO's and still be in very biodynamic territory. I do very much appreciate your artful discussions on learning how to see beyond our own assumptions, on learning how to examine "collapsed concepts" and language itself in order to better understand ourselves, and by extension our culture and our land and animals and soil. I wish more corporations had men like you as chairman and more public schools had men like you as educators. I also think that on this list, there is room for explicit conversation about soul development, something about which Steiner was quite articulate, highly detailed and quite prolific in his writings. I realize that many folks view conversations with Devas, nature spirits, their 'higher selves' and such as a kind of "California woo woo" (an expression, I actually dislike) and would prefer to stick to the basics, the how to's and explicit instructions on "how to farm biodynamically". Somewhere along the way in my studies of Steiner, the ag course, listening to you and other bd-now soil scientists and farmers, I found myself totally overwhelmed by information and rather confused. Perhaps if I had a farm with which to put more of these ideas and concepts into practical application and beyond my little 'balcony' garden, I would understand more clearly. But what I have felt is missing in my own attempts to grasp these mysterious basics of farming, is not a farm, but is the further & continued development of my own intuitive senses...my own conversations with "nature spirits". I remember when Ferdinand talked about how the Devas are retreating from the earth. I felt sad and actually felt also that this can NOT be entirely true. Recently I had the good fortune to speak with a young man who grew up on a farm, who quite naturally has & does commune and communicate with nature spirits. He said to me that everyone has Deva's but they usually don't "have the slightest clue" and "don't work with them at all". It was this comment that inspired (yes, the spirit moved me!) comments about 'my' need to hear more about these things from the more experienced farmers on this list. It was not meant as a criticism, although I am sure now, it came out that way. Corporations to me are a good archetypal example of the schizophrenic nature of our culture at this point in time. People on both the right and the left politically talk the talk about "family values" and yet somehow our lawmakers and our police forces are not compelled or empowered to support systems which in fact DO support families. (Never mind the food aspect of supporting families...ever see what kinds of food are available to people who need to go to food banks, food pantrys and the like?) People can't even agree right now about what exactly qualifies as a family. More money is spent on prisons than on education in this country. Money spent on education is money spent promoting materialism, the status quo and even advertising and certainly not the kind of thinking that Hugh describes so thoroughly in his post. Corporations feel no need to worry about the health, safety or leisure time of their workers/employees. People are lucky if there's any time leftover after working on their jobs and doing the wash, cleaning the house, reprovisioning to even talk to their kids and spouses, let alone have enough energy to play, dream, and support a real spiritual education. Our culture values leisure only as an excuse to get them to consume more useless, souless goods for the sake of the ever increasing market growth. So, I think it's forums like this one that need to keep a balanced approach to biodynamics, by not just offering material solutions but to be emboldened to speak directly to the soul (more frequently than many members already do). In spite of what you may perceive as unjust criticism, it has been my experience on this list, that has very much provided much food for thought, for practical application as well as for my spirit! Hey, I just want to hear more about Devas! And for that I thank you all and Allan as well, for all his work providing this forum! Best Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 13:59:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01163 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:59:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA03997; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:48:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03585 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:46:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.6]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:50:32 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:49:06 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: for Jane and other misc items Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 281 <> thanks Christine, for fleshing this out a bit for me...I have so thoroughly enjoyed being a part of this community and hope to meet up with more members somehow this year! BD workshops at The Pfeiffer Center this year (914-352-5020, ext 20 or info@Pfeiffercenter.org: Jennifer Green doing a water workshop ("Water, H2O or much more?") 4-17-99 Guenther Hauk's Intro to Organic Beekeeping w/ROckland County beekeeper Ron Breland 4-20 thru 5-1-99 and other workshops learning to use a scythe, educating kids, The secrets of nature with Dennis Klocek...call them for a brochure. And Guenther Hauk is indeed doing a bee workshop in Vancouver on 4-24, contact is Christoph Altemueller at (250) 746-4117 or (250) 748-4287 acc. to Vivian at the Pfeiffer Center. Thanks for all your good work! Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 14:00:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01175 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:00:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04079; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:49:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03629 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:46:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.6]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:50:56 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:49:29 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: March 20, 1999 - March 26, 1999 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id NAA03630 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 282 Calendar of the Soul [March 20, 1999 - March 26, 1999] Fiftieth Week (March 16-22) Thus to the human ego speaks In mighty revelation, Unfolding its inherent powers, The joy of growth throughout the world: I carry into you my life From its enchanted bondage And so attain my truest goal. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Es spricht zum Menschen-Ich, Sich machtvoll offenbarend Und seines Wesens Kräfte lösend, Des Weltendaseins Werdelust: In dich mein Leben tragend Aus seinem Zauberbanne, Erreiche ich mein wahres Ziel. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+50 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 14:00:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01183 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:00:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04173; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:49:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03922 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:48:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.6]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:53:02 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:51:35 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF:Math Textbook Salted With Brand Names Raises New Alarm (NYTIMes article today) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 283 Math Textbook Salted With Brand Names Raises New Alarm (from the New York Times) By CONSTANCE L. HAYS Joe Stein got a big surprise last fall when his 11-year-old son Noah asked him for help with homework. There on the page of Noah's sixth-grade math textbook was "what looked like an ad for a chain electronics store," said Stein. Going through the rest of the book, Stein discovered references to a wide array of brand-name consumer products, from Nike and Gatorade to Disneyland and Topps baseball cards, many of which appeared in illustrations as well. And that made him angry. "He has to use this textbook, and he has to do the work that is intertwined with these advertisements," said Stein, whose son attends middle school in Albany, Calif., north of Berkeley. "I found it offensive that the lesson he was learning was about commercialism and how even the school district and other public forums weren't free from this sort of thing. I also wondered who was getting paid for this. I assumed that textbooks wouldn't put this free of charge in the text." The textbook, "Mathematics: Applications and Connections," published by McGraw-Hill Inc. in 1995 and revised this year, is used in schools in about 15 states, including California and Texas, and has been approved for use in New York City. But a spokesman for McGraw-Hill said the publisher received no payments from companies whose products appear in the book. "We have no commercial or promotional arrangements to use particular brands," said the spokesman, Neal Allen. One of the book's authors said that the well-known products were included simply to make the math problems more relevant to sixth graders. Yet critics contend that the textbook amounts to a collection of advertisements that, especially because they appear in a book used in the classroom, press specific consumer products onto unsuspecting schoolchildren. The blizzard of name-dropping and product images, along with almost reverential descriptions of the companies, can only make children more brand-conscious, they say. "This looks like product placement, as they do in the movies," said David Walsh, director of the National Institute on Media and the Family, based in Minneapolis, which studies the effect of advertising on families. "The effect is the same. It gets at what I call the golden rule of influence, which is when the person being influenced doesn't even know it." Stein, a lawyer for the federal government in San Francisco, complained about the 1995 edition of the textbook. The 1999 version remains drenched with product shots and trivia about everything from Barbie dolls (Mattel), Cocoa Frosted Flakes (Kellogg), Sony Play Stations, Spalding basketballs, characters and entertainment sites owned by Disney and Warner Bros. and fast-food fare from Burger King and McDonald's. Those who oppose salting a textbook with brand names say it is the most egregious example of advertising's steady march through public education. "This is the first time we've seen advertising in state-subsidized textbooks," said Andrew Hagelshaw, senior program director at the Center for Commercial-Free Public Education in Oakland, Calif. Noting that taxpayer dollars paid for textbooks that school districts bought from McGraw-Hill, he added, "It crosses a line that hasn't been crossed before." He and others trace the trend of school acceptance of advertising to 1989, when thousands of schools began signing up for free televisions offered by Channel One. In return they had to agree to show their pupils current-affairs programming that included commercials from many consumer product companies eager to pitch their wares to children. School districts are seen as prime targets by computer software publishers, fast-food chains, soft-drink bottlers and other corporations, which believe that brand loyalty begins at an early age. Some offer schools lucrative contracts intended to promote their products and keep their competitors out. The McGraw-Hill textbook is intended to turn word problems into real-life situations to better teach the principles of sixth-grade math. For example, the 1995 edition, still in use in many places, introduces a decimal division problem as follows: "Will is saving his allowance to buy a pair of Nike shoes that cost $68.25. If Will earns $3.25 per week, how many weeks will Will need to save?" To the right of the text is a full-color picture of a pair of Nikes. Another word problem, this one in the 1999 edition, gives a plug to Oreos, made by Nabisco: "The best-selling packaged cookie in the world is the Oreo cookie," it begins. "The diameter of an Oreo cookie is 1.75 inches. Express the diameter of an Oreo cookie as a fraction in simplest form." A section on surface area in the same edition asks students to calculate the surface area of a box of Cocoa Frosted Flakes, adding some gratuitous information about when the cereal was introduced. Another page, titled "School to Career," highlights Lands' End, the mail-order apparel company. "Consumers can purchase unique clothing and accessories, and products for the home," the section reads. Not everyone insists on keeping the schools pure of consumer product information. But the math book goes too far, its critics say, in making references to products and companies so specifically and without any real context. "If you want children to deal with the real world, tell them to go out there and compare the prices of Nike and Reebok and Adidas and a store brand," suggested Charlotte Baecher, director of the Zillions Education Center at Consumers Union, which tries to sharpen children's awareness about advertising. "Then they will be getting a real lesson, instead of just a reinforcement that Nike is the most popular brand." She added that the word problem featuring Nike was an effective advertisement. "The whole point of advertising to kids is not about getting any particular message out," she said. "It's about getting that brand name to hit them in all sorts of places." One of the book's 12 authors, Patricia S. Wilson, an associate professor in the mathematics education department at the University of Georgia, said the brand names were scattered through the book almost unconsciously. "I don't recall ever actually discussing not using logos," she said. "Certainly, we didn't discuss trying to use logos. It was more the examples that people came up with." She said she knew of no company that had paid to be included in the book, adding, "What would bother me is if I knew there was some kind of financial agreement with somebody." One suggestion she did recall was using commercial logos as part of a section on symmetry. "You're trying to get into what people are familiar with, so they can see, hey, mathematics is in the world out there," she said. Putting real-life situations into math problems for sixth graders, she added, "is an important issue -- having products that are interesting to that age group, to hook into where they are." In California, the attention drawn to the book by Stein prompted one legislator to sponsor a bill to ban commercial references and logos in school textbooks. In fact, California already has a state guideline intended to prevent such references, but as Stein's experience shows, it does not always work. Kerry Mazzoni, chairwoman of the California State Assembly's education committee, introduced the bill in January. She said the state needed to be careful about the messages it sent schoolchildren. "We as a state should not be in a position of promoting one private-sector product over another," she said. Allen said that McGraw-Hill, prompted by Ms. Mazzoni's proposal, was "reviewing our policy with regard to screening out corporate logos." And he noted that textbooks were developed and revised in consultation with school committees that make suggestions about what should and should not be included. In California, the textbook was reviewed for compliance with state guidelines by a county education office, said Doug Stone, a spokesman for the state Department of Education. Because McGraw-Hill originally offered the book free to the state, he added, "it may not have received the thorough scrutiny that it should have gone through." California has demanded that future editions purchased by its school districts not carry brand names, Stone said, although he did not know when those editions would be printed. Permission to use the names and logos of some of the companies mentioned in the math textbook was sought and granted. Anna Rozevich, a spokeswoman for McDonald's, said her company was approached, "but we did not pay to be in the book." McDonald's gave permission for use of its name and logo, she said, because using real products "seemed to have intrinsic educational value for the children." But apparently no such permission was sought from several other companies regarding their images or statements concerning their products, according to their spokesmen. Ann Smith, a spokeswoman for Nabisco, said she could find no record of any request. Asked why Oreos might have been chosen for the math book, rather than Hydrox or other similar-looking brands, she said: "They probably wanted to represent something the masses would have knowledge of. Oreo is an American icon." That the companies did not pay anything for what would seem to be invaluable exposure to impressionable young minds through a school textbook is almost more troubling than if they had, some critics said. They say that fact reveals much about how the battle to keep classrooms free of commercialism has been lost. "It isn't implausible that a textbook writer simply chose this brand-name product without even thinking about it," said Alex Molnar, who directs the Center for the Study of Commercialism in Education at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, referring to the Oreo example. "But somebody ought to catch it." From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 14:08:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01301 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:08:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05349; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:57:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from send202.yahoomail.com (send202.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.126]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04992 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:54:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990321185737.1484.rocketmail@send202.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.205.40.10] by send202.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:57:37 PST Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:57:37 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 284 To all, when I think about the compromises regarding what we eat, I know that we will all once in a while eat food not energized the way it should be. That's why I have begun to thing twice about the importance of praying over our food before we touch it. I know it's only a start, but I think it's a good start! bruce ritchie - _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 14:42:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01871 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:42:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA08419; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:31:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08186 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:28:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp48.blueriver.mwt.net [156.46.253.175]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA08619 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:28:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <017201be73d0$e534ff00$affd2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: OFF:Math Textbook Salted With Brand Names Raises New Alarm (NYTIMes articletoday) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:27:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 285 Thanks Jane, I'm so glad you sent this. I have been a vocal opponent of Channel One which has slithered into our local public school system. Incidentally, I'm ashamed to say I did not know what this was, other than a "news show" that the children were viewing at school each morning for about 10 min./day. After exploring the www.bioneers.org website last year, I found a clearer message, this excerpt forwarded from that site: >The Center for Commercial-Free Public Education 360 Grand Avenue, # 385 Oakland, CA 94610 (510) 268-1100 unplug@igc.org Endangered Education: How Corporate Polluters are Attacking Environmental Education. >This 1997 report from the Center's Consumers or Citizens Program reveals how right-wing and "Wise Use" groups - funded by corporate polluters such as Dow Chemical, Philip Morris, Texaco and others - are trying to derail environmental education with an Astroturf movement. Seattle constituents of the Center are working to rid their school district of Channel One, the in-school current events and advertising program viewed by 8 million students each school day. Contact the Center if you live in the Seattle area and want to get involved. Please email or write to the above address. Please note, these folks will help you no matter where you are. If Channel One has bought its way into your school system with video equipment, TV's etc., your children are getting the short end of the deal.The information that I received from them was astounding. How much time is actually spent, by our children, forced to sit for commercials, big business AND the MILITARY brainwashing the kids into lifetime brand loyalty, etc....everyone knows if you get the kids...you get the future. Thank goodness my outrage about this tactic has rubbed off on the family a bit...my 17 yr. old grilled the Navy recruiter who sits in the lunchroom hoping to snag youngsters about what they are really doing with their promises of glamour & higher education, noting how much they spend on advertising on Channel One! (This comes on the heals of the "mandatory" testing that the military administers to all High School Juniors, which they say is to aid the kids in career determination, and identifying weakness/strength academically, however the results never come back to the school!! They stay with the govt.! I excused my daughter from this testing, but not without a fight with the school administration! Unbelievable!) Julie -----Original Message----- From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 12:50 PM Subject: OFF:Math Textbook Salted With Brand Names Raises New Alarm (NYTIMes articletoday) >Math Textbook Salted With Brand Names Raises New Alarm (from the New York >Times) >By CONSTANCE L. HAYS > >Joe Stein got a big surprise last fall when his 11-year-old son Noah asked >him for help with homework. There on the page of Noah's sixth-grade math >textbook was "what looked like an ad for a chain electronics store," said >Stein. Going through the rest of the book, Stein discovered references to a >wide array of brand-name consumer products, from Nike and Gatorade to >Disneyland and Topps baseball cards, many of which appeared in >illustrations as well. And that made him angry. > >"He has to use this textbook, and he has to do the work that is intertwined >with these advertisements," said Stein, whose son attends middle school in >Albany, Calif., north of Berkeley. "I found it offensive that the lesson he >was learning was about commercialism and how even the school district and >other public forums weren't free from this sort of thing. I also wondered >who was getting paid for this. I assumed that textbooks wouldn't put this >free of charge in the text." > >The textbook, "Mathematics: Applications and Connections," published by >McGraw-Hill Inc. in 1995 and revised this year, is used in schools in about >15 states, including California and Texas, and has been approved for use in >New York City. > >But a spokesman for McGraw-Hill said the publisher received no payments >from companies whose products appear in the book. "We have no commercial or >promotional arrangements to use particular brands," said the spokesman, >Neal Allen. One of the book's authors said that the well-known products >were included simply to make the math problems more relevant to sixth >graders. > >Yet critics contend that the textbook amounts to a collection of >advertisements that, especially because they appear in a book used in the >classroom, press specific consumer products onto unsuspecting >schoolchildren. The blizzard of name-dropping and product images, along >with almost reverential descriptions of the companies, can only make >children more brand-conscious, they say. > >"This looks like product placement, as they do in the movies," said David >Walsh, director of the National Institute on Media and the Family, based in >Minneapolis, which studies the effect of advertising on families. "The >effect is the same. It gets at what I call the golden rule of influence, >which is when the person being influenced doesn't even know it." > >Stein, a lawyer for the federal government in San Francisco, complained >about the 1995 edition of the textbook. The 1999 version remains drenched >with product shots and trivia about everything from Barbie dolls (Mattel), >Cocoa Frosted Flakes (Kellogg), Sony Play Stations, Spalding basketballs, >characters and entertainment sites owned by Disney and Warner Bros. and >fast-food fare from Burger King and McDonald's. > >Those who oppose salting a textbook with brand names say it is the most >egregious example of advertising's steady march through public education. > >"This is the first time we've seen advertising in state-subsidized >textbooks," said Andrew Hagelshaw, senior program director at the Center >for Commercial-Free Public Education in Oakland, Calif. Noting that >taxpayer dollars paid for textbooks that school districts bought from >McGraw-Hill, he added, "It crosses a line that hasn't been crossed before." > > >He and others trace the trend of school acceptance of advertising to 1989, >when thousands of schools began signing up for free televisions offered by >Channel One. In return they had to agree to show their pupils >current-affairs programming that included commercials from many consumer >product companies eager to pitch their wares to children. > >School districts are seen as prime targets by computer software publishers, >fast-food chains, soft-drink bottlers and other corporations, which believe >that brand loyalty begins at an early age. Some offer schools lucrative >contracts intended to promote their products and keep their competitors >out. > >The McGraw-Hill textbook is intended to turn word problems into real-life >situations to better teach the principles of sixth-grade math. > >For example, the 1995 edition, still in use in many places, introduces a >decimal division problem as follows: "Will is saving his allowance to buy a >pair of Nike shoes that cost $68.25. If Will earns $3.25 per week, how many >weeks will Will need to save?" To the right of the text is a full-color >picture of a pair of Nikes. > >Another word problem, this one in the 1999 edition, gives a plug to Oreos, >made by Nabisco: "The best-selling packaged cookie in the world is the Oreo >cookie," it begins. "The diameter of an Oreo cookie is 1.75 inches. Express >the diameter of an Oreo cookie as a fraction in simplest form." > >A section on surface area in the same edition asks students to calculate >the surface area of a box of Cocoa Frosted Flakes, adding some gratuitous >information about when the cereal was introduced. Another page, titled >"School to Career," highlights Lands' End, the mail-order apparel company. >"Consumers can purchase unique clothing and accessories, and products for >the home," the section reads. > >Not everyone insists on keeping the schools pure of consumer product >information. But the math book goes too far, its critics say, in making >references to products and companies so specifically and without any real >context. > >"If you want children to deal with the real world, tell them to go out >there and compare the prices of Nike and Reebok and Adidas and a store >brand," suggested Charlotte Baecher, director of the Zillions Education >Center at Consumers Union, which tries to sharpen children's awareness >about advertising. "Then they will be getting a real lesson, instead of >just a reinforcement that Nike is the most popular brand." > >She added that the word problem featuring Nike was an effective >advertisement. "The whole point of advertising to kids is not about getting >any particular message out," she said. "It's about getting that brand name >to hit them in all sorts of places." > >One of the book's 12 authors, Patricia S. Wilson, an associate professor in >the mathematics education department at the University of Georgia, said the >brand names were scattered through the book almost unconsciously. > >"I don't recall ever actually discussing not using logos," she said. >"Certainly, we didn't discuss trying to use logos. It was more the examples >that people came up with." > >She said she knew of no company that had paid to be included in the book, >adding, "What would bother me is if I knew there was some kind of financial >agreement with somebody." > >One suggestion she did recall was using commercial logos as part of a >section on symmetry. "You're trying to get into what people are familiar >with, so they can see, hey, mathematics is in the world out there," she >said. Putting real-life situations into math problems for sixth graders, >she added, "is an important issue -- having products that are interesting >to that age group, to hook into where they are." > >In California, the attention drawn to the book by Stein prompted one >legislator to sponsor a bill to ban commercial references and logos in >school textbooks. In fact, California already has a state guideline >intended to prevent such references, but as Stein's experience shows, it >does not always work. > >Kerry Mazzoni, chairwoman of the California State Assembly's education >committee, introduced the bill in January. She said the state needed to be >careful about the messages it sent schoolchildren. "We as a state should >not be in a position of promoting one private-sector product over another," >she said. > >Allen said that McGraw-Hill, prompted by Ms. Mazzoni's proposal, was >"reviewing our policy with regard to screening out corporate logos." And he >noted that textbooks were developed and revised in consultation with school >committees that make suggestions about what should and should not be >included. > >In California, the textbook was reviewed for compliance with state >guidelines by a county education office, said Doug Stone, a spokesman for >the state Department of Education. Because McGraw-Hill originally offered >the book free to the state, he added, "it may not have received the >thorough scrutiny that it should have gone through." > >California has demanded that future editions purchased by its school >districts not carry brand names, Stone said, although he did not know when >those editions would be printed. > >Permission to use the names and logos of some of the companies mentioned in >the math textbook was sought and granted. Anna Rozevich, a spokeswoman for >McDonald's, said her company was approached, "but we did not pay to be in >the book." McDonald's gave permission for use of its name and logo, she >said, because using real products "seemed to have intrinsic educational >value for the children." > >But apparently no such permission was sought from several other companies >regarding their images or statements concerning their products, according >to their spokesmen. > >Ann Smith, a spokeswoman for Nabisco, said she could find no record of any >request. Asked why Oreos might have been chosen for the math book, rather >than Hydrox or other similar-looking brands, she said: "They probably >wanted to represent something the masses would have knowledge of. Oreo is >an American icon." > >That the companies did not pay anything for what would seem to be >invaluable exposure to impressionable young minds through a school textbook >is almost more troubling than if they had, some critics said. They say that >fact reveals much about how the battle to keep classrooms free of >commercialism has been lost. > >"It isn't implausible that a textbook writer simply chose this brand-name >product without even thinking about it," said Alex Molnar, who directs the >Center for the Study of Commercialism in Education at the University of >Wisconsin-Milwaukee, referring to the Oreo example. "But somebody ought to >catch it." > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 14:42:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01881 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:42:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA08460; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:31:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08209 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:28:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max4-43.stc.net [208.210.132.171]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA29362 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:31:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F3A0AE.938435CA@direct.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:09:05 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: horn clay Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 286 >Dear Hugh, >Unlike 500, horn clay really does not dissolve very well in water (even during >a one hour stirring time). So, I think you have to dissolve it first in a bit >of water (warm) and then add it to the barrell. that is my observation. >Regards Ferdinand Ferdy, Seems to me like there should be no problem with horn clay dissolving. But then I took mine out of the horn and ground it (triturated) in a mortar and pestle after digging it up. Most of my horn clay experience has been with putting horn clay reagents in cosmic pipes. Lorraine and I have done both our pipes personally and I could feel the change very clearly, so could she. When we changed the reagents at our kitchen garden pipe for the farm it caught us both by surprise.We expectred some change, but the "whoosh" practically took our breath away, the effect was so strong. It was not electric or shocking or anything like that, but a strong current that particularly was felt in the heart. This was after the wintertime horn clay went in. The wintertime horn clay reagent was made by sending a sample of Greg Willis' wintertime horn clay to England for geometric cards to be made. Lorraine got the card back and used that in her Malcolm Rae Potentizer to make horn clay on a vial of milk sugar tablets. I think the potency she used in our pipe was 4x. It has changed the energy around here very noticeably, and I like it. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 14:48:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02003 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:48:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09010; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:37:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08703 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:33:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0210.direct.ca ([204.244.83.26] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10Oo1H-00061G-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:36:24 -0800 Message-ID: <36F547EF.DEA3D228@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:26:39 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD No-till/Preps radiating References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> <36F33D0B.87EA61BF@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 287 To which I must reply: I worked with vials too and the difference of the compost is eye popping. Vial treatment simply (at this point) does not create as thoroughly decomposed compost as the one that has received the preparations directly. Incidentally, I really have a problem with 'inserting' 507 (Valerian) which is supposed to build the skin. I think many questions will have to be discussed and tested before this method can become a practically applied one. My observations have shown the following: The 'radiation' of each preparation does stay in one place for half a year. Whereas when you insert the preps, the radiation appears to melt into each other and an overall picture does arise (like the wings of a butterfly). With vials inserted, you have at least five distinguished dots and Valerian does not really show. Regards Ferdinand Pam DeTray wrote: > Hugh Lovel wrote: > > > For example, Harvey Lisle realized > > after nearly thirty years that if he put his preps in his compost pile in > > little vials they wouldn't be digested by the pile and would work as well > > at the end as at the beginning--and then he could put these same preps in > > his new pile! Steiner drew an illustration (in the second discussion, page > > 110, AGRICULTURE) of how the preps radiate their influences through the > > pile, so Harvey tried his idea and it worked. In fact it is the most > > workable method I've seen. It both works better and is more economical. > > Oh, Hugh, please expand on this. I've read it and thought about it, and > I still don't quite get it. If the preps radiate their influences > through the pile, does that not expend those forces? If not, then why do > we need to keep them in peat moss until we use them? > > Pam DeTray > psdetray@cyberhighway.net -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 14:51:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02313 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:51:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09324; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:40:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09244 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:39:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0210.direct.ca ([204.244.83.26] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10Oo6o-0006HP-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:42:07 -0800 Message-ID: <36F54944.56472E81@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:32:21 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ferd's teeth post References: <36F4FB7A.2949EBA3@cyberhighway.net> <36F50971.57E795E1@digisys.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 288 Dear Pat, During the work with my son I was instructed to use the 'O' - and say it aloud - embracing him into this 'O' and he did the same, embracing me. The 'T' (moving your hands to the head and - difficult to describe on the monitor - set them on the very centre of your head) saying 't' was another movement. Sounds were , indeed, involved in this exercise, however, we both were instructed to move towards each other and away from each other focusing and the approach and the withdrawal. The sound 'M' with the movement 'M' was indicated as well. Since this exercise was done some 14 years ago, I am not 100% sure which followed which one. I will discuss it with my son to be more clear on this, however, he does not live around the corner and it may take a while. Regards Ferdinand "P. Hironimus" wrote: > Ferdinand, > > The Dictionary says eurythmy is "a system of harmonious body movement to the rhythm of spoken words." > Could you give us an example please. > > Pat Hironimus -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 14:56:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02373 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:56:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09969; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from acc.haverford.edu (acc.haverford.edu [165.82.1.30]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09681 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:43:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [165.82.19.116] (s116.magill.haverford.edu [165.82.19.116]) by acc.haverford.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA05580 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:45:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:49:52 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Bruce Bumbarger Subject: new Demeter website address Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 289 I received word of this and thought others might find it useful. http://www.demeter-usa.org Bruce From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 15:00:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02414 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:00:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10312; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:49:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10204 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:48:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d145.infoserve.net [199.175.157.145]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA14987 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:53:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002501be73d4$39a92540$919dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: OFF:Math Textbook Salted With Brand Names Raises New Alarm (NYTIMes articletoday) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:24:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 290 Dear Jane and other concerned about ads. in schools, That sort of idea has been catching on here too in Vancouver Schools. They are very strapped for operating funds, so they have turned to corporate sponsors to help with the shortfalls. In one case I know of, the companies can put their logos (specified to a small size (%) on the jerseys of hockey team uniforms). In another case, the school only sells pepsi in their machines because Pepsi helped out with the School District financially. Perhaps, ads. in text books goes too far, but, the operating funds have to come from somewhere if gov't can't or won't provide adequate funding. Otherwise, it will end up like in Waldorf School where they fund-raise for everything over and on top of the school fees almost every waking minute. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 10:55 AM Subject: OFF:Math Textbook Salted With Brand Names Raises New Alarm (NYTIMes articletoday) >Math Textbook Salted With Brand Names Raises New Alarm (from the New York >Times) >By CONSTANCE L. HAYS > >Joe Stein got a big surprise last fall when his 11-year-old son Noah asked >him for help with homework. There on the page of Noah's sixth-grade math >textbook was "what looked like an ad for a chain electronics store," said >Stein. Going through the rest of the book, Stein discovered references to a >wide array of brand-name consumer products, from Nike and Gatorade to >Disneyland and Topps baseball cards, many of which appeared in >illustrations as well. And that made him angry. > >"He has to use this textbook, and he has to do the work that is intertwined >with these advertisements," said Stein, whose son attends middle school in >Albany, Calif., north of Berkeley. "I found it offensive that the lesson he >was learning was about commercialism and how even the school district and >other public forums weren't free from this sort of thing. I also wondered >who was getting paid for this. I assumed that textbooks wouldn't put this >free of charge in the text." > >The textbook, "Mathematics: Applications and Connections," published by >McGraw-Hill Inc. in 1995 and revised this year, is used in schools in about >15 states, including California and Texas, and has been approved for use in >New York City. > >But a spokesman for McGraw-Hill said the publisher received no payments >from companies whose products appear in the book. "We have no commercial or >promotional arrangements to use particular brands," said the spokesman, >Neal Allen. One of the book's authors said that the well-known products >were included simply to make the math problems more relevant to sixth >graders. > >Yet critics contend that the textbook amounts to a collection of >advertisements that, especially because they appear in a book used in the >classroom, press specific consumer products onto unsuspecting >schoolchildren. The blizzard of name-dropping and product images, along >with almost reverential descriptions of the companies, can only make >children more brand-conscious, they say. > >"This looks like product placement, as they do in the movies," said David >Walsh, director of the National Institute on Media and the Family, based in >Minneapolis, which studies the effect of advertising on families. "The >effect is the same. It gets at what I call the golden rule of influence, >which is when the person being influenced doesn't even know it." > >Stein, a lawyer for the federal government in San Francisco, complained >about the 1995 edition of the textbook. The 1999 version remains drenched >with product shots and trivia about everything from Barbie dolls (Mattel), >Cocoa Frosted Flakes (Kellogg), Sony Play Stations, Spalding basketballs, >characters and entertainment sites owned by Disney and Warner Bros. and >fast-food fare from Burger King and McDonald's. > >Those who oppose salting a textbook with brand names say it is the most >egregious example of advertising's steady march through public education. > >"This is the first time we've seen advertising in state-subsidized >textbooks," said Andrew Hagelshaw, senior program director at the Center >for Commercial-Free Public Education in Oakland, Calif. Noting that >taxpayer dollars paid for textbooks that school districts bought from >McGraw-Hill, he added, "It crosses a line that hasn't been crossed before." > > >He and others trace the trend of school acceptance of advertising to 1989, >when thousands of schools began signing up for free televisions offered by >Channel One. In return they had to agree to show their pupils >current-affairs programming that included commercials from many consumer >product companies eager to pitch their wares to children. > >School districts are seen as prime targets by computer software publishers, >fast-food chains, soft-drink bottlers and other corporations, which believe >that brand loyalty begins at an early age. Some offer schools lucrative >contracts intended to promote their products and keep their competitors >out. > >The McGraw-Hill textbook is intended to turn word problems into real-life >situations to better teach the principles of sixth-grade math. > >For example, the 1995 edition, still in use in many places, introduces a >decimal division problem as follows: "Will is saving his allowance to buy a >pair of Nike shoes that cost $68.25. If Will earns $3.25 per week, how many >weeks will Will need to save?" To the right of the text is a full-color >picture of a pair of Nikes. > >Another word problem, this one in the 1999 edition, gives a plug to Oreos, >made by Nabisco: "The best-selling packaged cookie in the world is the Oreo >cookie," it begins. "The diameter of an Oreo cookie is 1.75 inches. Express >the diameter of an Oreo cookie as a fraction in simplest form." > >A section on surface area in the same edition asks students to calculate >the surface area of a box of Cocoa Frosted Flakes, adding some gratuitous >information about when the cereal was introduced. Another page, titled >"School to Career," highlights Lands' End, the mail-order apparel company. >"Consumers can purchase unique clothing and accessories, and products for >the home," the section reads. > >Not everyone insists on keeping the schools pure of consumer product >information. But the math book goes too far, its critics say, in making >references to products and companies so specifically and without any real >context. > >"If you want children to deal with the real world, tell them to go out >there and compare the prices of Nike and Reebok and Adidas and a store >brand," suggested Charlotte Baecher, director of the Zillions Education >Center at Consumers Union, which tries to sharpen children's awareness >about advertising. "Then they will be getting a real lesson, instead of >just a reinforcement that Nike is the most popular brand." > >She added that the word problem featuring Nike was an effective >advertisement. "The whole point of advertising to kids is not about getting >any particular message out," she said. "It's about getting that brand name >to hit them in all sorts of places." > >One of the book's 12 authors, Patricia S. Wilson, an associate professor in >the mathematics education department at the University of Georgia, said the >brand names were scattered through the book almost unconsciously. > >"I don't recall ever actually discussing not using logos," she said. >"Certainly, we didn't discuss trying to use logos. It was more the examples >that people came up with." > >She said she knew of no company that had paid to be included in the book, >adding, "What would bother me is if I knew there was some kind of financial >agreement with somebody." > >One suggestion she did recall was using commercial logos as part of a >section on symmetry. "You're trying to get into what people are familiar >with, so they can see, hey, mathematics is in the world out there," she >said. Putting real-life situations into math problems for sixth graders, >she added, "is an important issue -- having products that are interesting >to that age group, to hook into where they are." > >In California, the attention drawn to the book by Stein prompted one >legislator to sponsor a bill to ban commercial references and logos in >school textbooks. In fact, California already has a state guideline >intended to prevent such references, but as Stein's experience shows, it >does not always work. > >Kerry Mazzoni, chairwoman of the California State Assembly's education >committee, introduced the bill in January. She said the state needed to be >careful about the messages it sent schoolchildren. "We as a state should >not be in a position of promoting one private-sector product over another," >she said. > >Allen said that McGraw-Hill, prompted by Ms. Mazzoni's proposal, was >"reviewing our policy with regard to screening out corporate logos." And he >noted that textbooks were developed and revised in consultation with school >committees that make suggestions about what should and should not be >included. > >In California, the textbook was reviewed for compliance with state >guidelines by a county education office, said Doug Stone, a spokesman for >the state Department of Education. Because McGraw-Hill originally offered >the book free to the state, he added, "it may not have received the >thorough scrutiny that it should have gone through." > >California has demanded that future editions purchased by its school >districts not carry brand names, Stone said, although he did not know when >those editions would be printed. > >Permission to use the names and logos of some of the companies mentioned in >the math textbook was sought and granted. Anna Rozevich, a spokeswoman for >McDonald's, said her company was approached, "but we did not pay to be in >the book." McDonald's gave permission for use of its name and logo, she >said, because using real products "seemed to have intrinsic educational >value for the children." > >But apparently no such permission was sought from several other companies >regarding their images or statements concerning their products, according >to their spokesmen. > >Ann Smith, a spokeswoman for Nabisco, said she could find no record of any >request. Asked why Oreos might have been chosen for the math book, rather >than Hydrox or other similar-looking brands, she said: "They probably >wanted to represent something the masses would have knowledge of. Oreo is >an American icon." > >That the companies did not pay anything for what would seem to be >invaluable exposure to impressionable young minds through a school textbook >is almost more troubling than if they had, some critics said. They say that >fact reveals much about how the battle to keep classrooms free of >commercialism has been lost. > >"It isn't implausible that a textbook writer simply chose this brand-name >product without even thinking about it," said Alex Molnar, who directs the >Center for the Study of Commercialism in Education at the University of >Wisconsin-Milwaukee, referring to the Oreo example. "But somebody ought to >catch it." > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 15:00:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02426 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:00:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10354; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:49:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10209 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:48:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d145.infoserve.net [199.175.157.145]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA14995 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:54:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002601be73d4$3c37bf60$919dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: exporting BD produce to Vancouver/Pro-Organics Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:51:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE7391.16B40020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 291 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE7391.16B40020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are several delivery companies now operating in Vancouver eg. Organics to You, Organics to Go, Go Organics. Then, there is Pro Organics However, there is one I like best because it opens its warehouse on = Sat. mornings, so anybody can go there, even if they are not on the = weekly/biweekly delivery roster. Their prices are very reasonable. I picked up their newsletter where they mentioned that they had open = house in some of their suppliers from N. California. Perhaps, this would = be time that BD growers could aquaint them with BD. The lower Can$ has = its advantages and NAFTA helps as well. So, here are their particulars and I'll let you guys take it from there: Pro Oganics Marketing Inc. 3454 Lougheed Hwy. Vancouver, BC V5M 2A4 604-254-6549 1-800-461-1122 fax: 604-253-0439 prosales@proorganics.com Pro Organics Marketing (East) Inc. Unit #3-5 Bldg. , #709 433 Horner AVe. Toronto, ON, V8W 4Y4 ccottril@prooganics.com ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE7391.16B40020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There are several delivery companies = now=20 operating in Vancouver
eg. Organics to You, Organics to Go, = Go=20 Organics.
Then, there is Pro = Organics
  However, there is one I like = best because=20 it opens its warehouse on Sat. mornings, so anybody can go there, even = if they=20 are not on the weekly/biweekly delivery roster.  Their prices are = very=20 reasonable.
 
   I picked up their = newsletter where=20 they mentioned that they had open house in some of their suppliers from = N.=20 California. Perhaps, this would be time that BD growers could aquaint = them with=20 BD.  The lower Can$ has its advantages and NAFTA helps as=20 well.
 
So, here are their particulars and I'll let you guys = take it=20 from there:
 
Pro Oganics Marketing Inc.
3454 Lougheed Hwy.
Vancouver, BC V5M 2A4
604-254-6549
1-800-461-1122
fax: 604-253-0439
prosales@proorganics.com
 
Pro Organics Marketing (East) = Inc.
Unit #3-5 = Bldg. ,=20 #709
433 Horner AVe.
Toronto, ON, V8W 4Y4
ccottril@prooganics.com
 
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE7391.16B40020-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 15:00:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02466 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:00:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10403; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:49:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10216 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:48:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0210.direct.ca ([204.244.83.26] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10OoFd-0004xw-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:51:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36F54B4D.B0FC0A7B@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:41:02 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives References: <19990321185737.1484.rocketmail@send202.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 292 Dear Bruce, What a marvellous post. Many thanks! Your prayers do not only change the food for you but will reach the plant, the animal and the soil (as well as the people who have worked with) as well. Regards Ferdinand bruce ritchie wrote: > To all, > when I think about the compromises regarding what we eat, I > know that we will all once in a while eat food not energized the way > it should be. That's why I have begun to thing twice about the > importance of praying over our food before we touch it. I know it's > only a start, but I think it's a good start! > bruce ritchie > > - > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 15:19:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02679 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:19:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12043; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:08:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11745 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:05:10 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA23741 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:07:24 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:07:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md17-27.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.155) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma023730; Sun Mar 21 14:07:05 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199932115857141@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives re: the public X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 293 >So, here's what I'm trying to say. If even in a forum such as this, where >indeed there has been much talk over the years of a spiritual nature but >that 'spiritual sense' is still NOT the main kind of intelligence being >applied to growing food, how can we expect a mass population, who perhaps >is NOT inclined to any spiritual practice, to have any kind of spiritual >take on the mad technologists rush to claim the secret powers of nature as >their own? > >Best Regards and a Blessed & Happy Spring to you all, >Jane Sherry > > > I have gone in to a very dark place lately, literally hurting over the feeling that "the masses," however much they do or don't know about what's really going on, are more or less not gonna "get it" until catastrophe hits. Re: "sprituality," there are many religeous leaders who have open opposed GMOs to the makers and the gov't. The challenge to the BDers is to connect with those persons and strengthen our forces, as well as sharing and enriching our perspectives. Each of those religeous leaders has a congregation to share this with, and each person in the congregation can/should share the knowledge with a friend who has no religion/spirituality, and thus the ripples spread. Ironically, what is just as discouraging as an uninformed public is the segment of the public that is informed just talking amongst themselves... i.e. let's hit the streets folks, dropping the BD or whatever else you define yourself by and dialog with your earthly sisters and brothers. If nothing else, you can tell them GMOs have been proven to cause cancer in lab rats. "Spiritual" doesn't even have to be brought up, not at first anyway. "Reaching out" means honoring where a person's awareness is, and inspiring them from within their perspectives before turning them on to a new one. In faith of our ability to heal this world, Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power. Where is yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 15:27:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02744 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:27:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12849; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:16:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12559 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:13:44 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA18838 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:16:02 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:16:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md17-27.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.155) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018828; Sun Mar 21 14:15:44 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199932115173616334@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Evil Empire X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 294 Remember, ALOT of land grant universities are being funnelled money to do said GMO research, pass the info to Monsanto and the like, who then refine and patent it. It is, in part, this "R & D" money they are eager to get back, aside from becoming fithy rich etc. Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power. Where is yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 15:53:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03101 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:53:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16319; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:41:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16009 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:39:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d148.infoserve.net [199.175.157.148]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA18573 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:44:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002a01be73db$594e7a60$949dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: exporting BD produce to Vancouver/Pro-Organics/website added! Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:40:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BE7398.06641C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 295 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BE7398.06641C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 11:55 AM Subject: exporting BD produce to Vancouver/Pro-Organics =20 =20 There are several delivery companies now operating in Vancouver eg. Organics to You, Organics to Go, Go Organics. Then, there is Pro Organics However, there is one I like best because it opens its warehouse = on Sat. mornings, so anybody can go there, even if they are not on the = weekly/biweekly delivery roster. Their prices are very reasonable. =20 I picked up their newsletter where they mentioned that they had = open house in some of their suppliers from N. California. Perhaps, this = would be time that BD growers could aquaint them with BD. The lower = Can$ has its advantages and NAFTA helps as well. =20 So, here are their particulars and I'll let you guys take it from = there: =20 Pro Oganics Marketing Inc. 3454 Lougheed Hwy. Vancouver, BC V5M 2A4 604-254-6549 1-800-461-1122 fax: 604-253-0439 prosales@proorganics.com www.proorganics.com=20 =20 Pro Organics Marketing (East) Inc. Unit #3-5 Bldg. , #709 433 Horner AVe. Toronto, ON, V8W 4Y4 ccottril@prooganics.com =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BE7398.06641C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Michael Roboz <mroboz@infoserve.net>
T= o:=20 bdnow@envirolink.org = <bdnow@envirolink.org>
D= ate:=20 Sunday, March 21, 1999 11:55 AM
Subject: exporting BD = produce=20 to Vancouver/Pro-Organics

There are several delivery = companies now=20 operating in Vancouver
eg. Organics to You, Organics to = Go, Go=20 Organics.
Then, there is Pro = Organics
  However, there is one I = like best=20 because it opens its warehouse on Sat. mornings, so anybody can go = there,=20 even if they are not on the weekly/biweekly delivery roster.  = Their=20 prices are very reasonable.
 
   I picked up their = newsletter=20 where they mentioned that they had open house in some of their = suppliers=20 from N. California. Perhaps, this would be time that BD growers = could=20 aquaint them with BD.  The lower Can$ has its advantages and = NAFTA=20 helps as well.
 
So, here are their particulars and I'll let you = guys take=20 it from there:
 
Pro Oganics Marketing Inc.
3454 Lougheed Hwy.
Vancouver, BC V5M 2A4
604-254-6549
1-800-461-1122
fax: 604-253-0439
prosales@proorganics.com
www.proorganics.com <= /DIV>
 
Pro Organics Marketing (East)=20 Inc.
Unit #3-5 = Bldg. ,=20 #709
433 Horner AVe.
Toronto, ON, V8W 4Y4
ccottril@prooganics.com
 
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BE7398.06641C80-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 16:13:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03345 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA18176; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:55:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA17836 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:53:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 30871 invoked from network); 21 Mar 1999 13:56:12 -0700 Received: from ts2-20.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.171) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 1999 13:56:12 -0700 Message-ID: <36F55CF1.899A1CE8@cyberhighway.net> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:56:19 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Moon Dancing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD No-till/Preps radiating References: <19990315220048.11514.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> <36F33D0B.87EA61BF@cyberhighway.net> <36F547EF.DEA3D228@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 296 It must truly be a matter of each of us learning to see for ourselves, then collating and comparing our discoveries to arrive at the spiritual science of it. Perhaps in the cool moist northwest it's one way, in my arid cold and hot climate another, and in Georgia's warmth yet another. Each of us needs to learn what our land requires of us, then go from there. One of the four piles we inoculated last fall, before I knew about not splitting a set of preps, was done with vials. I need to get out to visit these, and will report back on any differences I see. Pam Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > To which I must reply: > > I worked with vials too and the difference of the compost is eye popping. Vial > treatment simply (at this point) does not create as thoroughly decomposed > compost as the one that has received the preparations directly. Incidentally, I > really have a problem with 'inserting' 507 (Valerian) which is supposed to build > the skin. > > I think many questions will have to be discussed and tested before this method > can become a practically applied one. > > My observations have shown the following: The 'radiation' of each preparation > does stay in one place for half a year. Whereas when you insert the preps, the > radiation appears to melt into each other and an overall picture does arise > (like the wings of a butterfly). With vials inserted, you have at least five > distinguished dots and Valerian does not really show. > > Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 19:31:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA05338 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:31:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA09940; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:16:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09612 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:13:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-81.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.81]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA23144 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:16:12 +1000 Message-ID: <005e01be73f9$164abbc0$51431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: Spring Equinox Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:48:12 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 297 We on the other side of the world in the Southern Hemisphere are now experiencing our lovely Autumn days, our trees are just getting tipped with red and gold, the grass is slowing it's growth (thank God), the winter veggies are going in the ground and so are the green manure crops as the zucchini and tomatoes finish their run, and the pumpkins are drying out and becoming golden. Equal days of light and dark, awaiting the first real chill yet, so we can start our winter fire routine. Time to put our preparations down, time to start putting out our Prep 500, and time for our harvest festivals. Somedays our skies are blue and clear with puffy white clouds, and then we are still having our dark stormy weather with loud thunderstorms and lightening, sometimes even floods, as this has been a very wet and cooler summer. I love this slide into our inner time, when we spend so much more time indoors, around the fire and can start our winter activities of spinning and knitting while cooking soups over the fire. I am looking forward to doing my inner work as we walk into our inner spiral and having a rest before the next frenetic activity of spring and summer that you are now coming to. Love to all from the Land Down Under! Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Saturday, 20 March 1999 12:42 am Subject: Re: Spring Equinox >Signs of Spring in NYC: > >Summer Growth all through December >Roses in full bloom on Broadway by (Winter) Solstice >January, February warm and wind storms >Winter blooming witch hazel met >Hellebores, dewdrops and crocus in bloom >a full two weeks ago or more. >Saw/Heard my first cardinals today >The Big Park should really be called Bird Central. > >Sky luminous blue at dawn >Ochre wands brightening to yellow on the willows >Ground only froze two weeks ago when winter >finally arrived with freezing cold, wind and snow >covering exuberant hellebores below. >And now they're fully a foot high. (Flowers, not snow!) > >To live in NYC and have birdsong greet you in the morning >is truly a sign of spring, as are the long >awaited sight of farmers returning to the street >to sell their greenhouse greens, their end of winter roots >and harbor the promise of summer. >I also know it's spring when the NYTimes foolish food writers >talk of dandelion greens, fiddle head ferns and nettles >yes "fresh" nettles "imported" from the northwest coast! >Only in NY folks! would people pay 10$ a pound!!!!! for >imported nettles from 3000 miles away! >Never suspecting that they may hide in their own back yards! > >Maybe you bd folks w/csa's or access to shipping or >local NYC markets might want an early source of income? > >Happy Spring and may the gentle breeze blow! > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 20:26:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05792 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:26:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA15838; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:12:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15404 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:09:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.17]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:14:07 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:12:36 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Safe Seed Sources Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 298 They're on the list at (Allan's) Bd-Now website: (http://www.igg.com/bdnow/seedlist.html). Glad to hear you're the one providing those Iroquois/6 Nations bean seeds! It is one of the many wonderful beans they offer on my list! They also have a wonderful catalogue, chock full of useful info. Best, Jane Sherry It seems few people know of, or at least mention, Abundant Life Seed Foundation, a non-profit aimed towards preserving OP and heirlooms, particularly rare and endangered ones. Too often I see seed saving books that don't mention them and their wonderful efforts. I grow out the rare Iroquois/6 Nations bean for them. Moreover, I bought my first Stella Natura from them this year. Abundant Life Seed Foundation P.O. Box 772 Port Towsend, WA 98368 360.385.5660 fax 360.385.7455 Happy Gardening, Paco aka John E. Verin BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 21:59:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06628 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:59:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA24700; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:46:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24431 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:44:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 208.255.72.227 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:46:46 -0800 Message-ID: <000801be740d$d85b1fc0$e348ffd0@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Re: biodynamic viticulture Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:44:00 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 299 Dear Hilary, I'd be glad to speak with you (via email) on these and other related biodynamic viticulture issues. I am the coordinator of the ecological agriculture program at Santa Rosa Junior College, where I teach a whole host of classes including organic viticulture. We have a 365 acre college farm for which I am also partially responsible. We have 53 acres of award winning grapes and 10.5 are now in conversion to organic certification. I am also a biodynamic consultant with 25 years experience. Formerly the Director of the Biodynamic Training Program in Kimberton, PA, I was trained initially in Switzerland as a farm manager and later worked 8 years as a full time farmer both in Europe and here in the States. Very busy this week (as usual) but I would be glad to make some email time. Tonight, I am swamped and I will be the next couple of days too, but please write me your questions and I'll make every attempt to give you whatever response I can in a timely manner, For now, all the best, Andrew Andrew Christopher Lorand, PhD agdoc@msn.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 22:04:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA06688 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:04:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25474; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:52:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA25015 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:49:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (modem-134.xcelco.on.ca [205.206.216.134]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA07673 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:51:01 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Re: what's going on? Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:50:49 -0800 Message-ID: <01be7427$f110a8e0$86d8cecd@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 300 I have a happier perspective of "What's going on". I believe that what we are seeing now is the last vestiges of adolescence of the human race as a species. Your description was completely accurate as to the attitude of humankind up until now. we are about to achieve a gloal community and a world wide peace which will usher in the "most great peace". If you wish to discuss this in more depth, contact me privately and I'd be delighted to share more insight. Jean From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 22:22:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07123 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:22:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA27958; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:10:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27880 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.114] (pm3shep3-163-147.intrepid.net [209.190.163.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA30993 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:12:54 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:15:04 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Request from Russia: HELP!!! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 301 Hallo My name is Alexander,I Live and work in Russia. Five years ago I opened my own business.The main purpose of my buisness is rendering charity assistance for social unprotected sections of population. In 1994 I created a bakery production. The most part of products passed to children`s homes,asylums for aged people, as a charitable purpose. In the course of some years my firm took active part in program off assistance for pensioners in Russia in cooperation with International Saving Army. Since 1996 in cooperation with municipality we put into operation program of distribution humanitarian help and second hend goods among social unprotected sections of population. But, unfortunately,in August 1998 crisis came. It strongly undermine the economy. Many enterprises was closed down activities. Today situation is thraten wrecking of the program of charity assistance for social unprotected section of population. And it can make this program full stop. Dear Frend, I will bi viry grateful for any help you may be able to give. To us it is necessary:FINANCIAL MEANS,HUMANITARIUM HELP(FOOD PRODUCTS,CLOTHES,TOYS FOR CHILDREN ETC.) Sincerely yours Alexander Sesin ____________________________________________________________________ mine email: amritas@mail.ru post address :Russia, Moskow,109388,30-2 Polbina Str.,"Amrita" Ltd. Tel/Fax +7(095)353-0003 ________________________ bank intermediary: BARCLAYS BANK PLC,LONDON,ENGLAND number accounts mine bank in BARCLAYS BANK: PLC-68866399 bic code mine bank in to system S.W.I.F.T. : SABRRUMM 100 mine bank: SAVINGS BANK OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION (MOSKOW SVAVINGS BANK) branch: Lublinskoye BRANCH,7977/01208 MOSKOW, RUSSIA acc. N 42301.840.6.3825.0800296 Sesin Alexandr Gurianova str.57/2-268,Moskow,109388,Russia =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 22:59:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07593 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:59:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA01998; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:46:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01666 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:44:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.32] (pm3shep1-163-32.intrepid.net [209.190.163.32]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03988 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:47:13 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:49:40 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Quote of the Day Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 302 "Equating permaculture with gardening is like equating a human with his/her stomach. " From: Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications Copyright, 1998, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA Internships. YankeePerm@aol.com We don't have time to rush. A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture Teachers assn home page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 23:38:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08112 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:38:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA07023; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:25:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06749 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:23:35 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA00579; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:25:17 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:25:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md14-54.ix.netcom.com(199.182.66.54) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000566; Sun Mar 21 22:25:11 1999 To: haggerty@xcelco.on.ca To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199932123274119169@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: more what's going on? X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 303 On 03/21/99 21:50:49 you wrote: > >I have a happier perspective of "What's going on". Glad you said that. Sometimes I need a reminder when I'm looking at what said "dark" energies too much. I believe that what we >are seeing now is the last vestiges of adolescence of the human race as a >species. I would clarify this to say the adolescence of Post-Pagan Western Culture, because MANY peoples have had and have today, incredible maturity and wisdom. Why have we chosen the immature route? If we've eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, why are we acting so clueless? Your description was completely accurate as to the attitude of >humankind up until now. Again, not all humankind is doing to Earth what we are. Moreover, many that do as we do is either via envy or coersion or force. I enjoy thinking of Earth as a cell. That kind of makes our behavior appear cancerous, doesn't it? "Our" includes you and me, not just "our" society. we are about to achieve a gloal community and a >world wide peace which will usher in the "most great peace". I do sense a major shift going on, and it feels really good! Also, I'm wary of the term "global community" when even among we hip, enlightened Earth stewards we have hard times communicating lovingly and honestly. Also also, I feel a grave need that we repair our community that is before, behind, left and right of us. "Global" concerns me when most "communities" in this nation do not provide for even a small portion of their needs. It's all imported (domestically & internationally) from places to which they have no connection except anonymous long-chained exchange of goods, from food to clothing, to shelter materials, to the people themselves! Further, if the "global community" is more of a spiritual nature, then ought not we be moving our material communities to be healthy, to compliment the spiritual activity? If you wish to >discuss this in more depth, contact me privately and I'd be delighted to >share more insight. Thanks for the invite. >Jean > > > Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power. Where is yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 00:20:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08561 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:20:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA10632; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:08:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09891 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:03:06 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hYPOa13433 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:05:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <17aa4659.36f5cf8a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:05:14 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: re: what's going on Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 304 Remember, all you enlightened folks out there, we are only as fast as the slowest. And I am the slowest. So have some heart and take into consideration that some may not be able to live up to your ideals. At least for the moment. And by all means continue to set an example but not in a holier than thou way. Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 00:26:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08624 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:26:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA11110; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:14:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10898 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:11:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ox2p-0003KW-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:14:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36F5CD37.44FC8799@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:55:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Horn clay and clay soil References: <36F520A2.31DC@cwcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 305 Dear Tony, My ducking out has to do with sheer 'self defence' - the work load (perhaps also cop out, who knows) But the shades under my eyes reveal a bit of sleep deprevation. I love the list (perhaps too much) and at times get hooked, so to speak. I have to learn to concentrate - Andrew Lorand is a fine teacher of mine (I think he knows). All the best. Regards Ferdinand Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > Thank you, Ferdy, for your comments. I realise that I have lived on a > clay soil all my life (born on London clay) so I'd not really know what > to measure my degree of melancholy against. Being on the spring line > under a hill, I feel pretty sad now, when I can see tufts of rushes > sprouting on my waterlogged lawn - but I know I'll feel happier in late > summer, when others are complaining about the drought. > Sorry to read that you're ducking out for a bit, I always look forward > to your wise words. Tony N-S. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 00:26:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08625 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:26:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA11201; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:15:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11039 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:14:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10Ox4g-0000WX-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:16:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36F5CDC1.49527561@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:57:37 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 306 UNSUBSCRIBE NOW. (Spring work has started, half-man show must go on the road. Will be back when time gets a bit easier) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 00:26:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08644 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:26:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA11150; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10948 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:12:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ox3P-0003NI-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:15:11 -0800 Message-ID: <36F5CD5B.F9F254E0@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:55:55 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD No-till Is Different (Long) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 307 Dear Hugh, The pig, according to my observation, is a 'human head' on four legs. The wisdom and intelligence that little animal displaces is incredible. Not only are pigs clean (they do not s'it into their nest) they really throw a pig out of the next if it craps into it. They help each other socially. If you mark the teat of a mother sow and the respective little pig, they will always go back to the same teat. Unruly behaviour is punished by bites or chasing them 'teenager'. Birthing is a family affair! They help each other. Food is OFTEN being shared, more often than not. Barking, warning is common and an enemy is tackled in a well organised group. The weak or sick is being helped and fed. I could go on for a long time. A pig is a partner for life and they would defend you IF you decide to share your life with them. They are as strong as dogs when it comes to it or stronger and they can be well trained. When we added pigs to our (former) farm, we felt that humor had arrived. You are ever so right with what they ingest. No wonder that their 'casting' is as close to a human's as can be. They must be thinking a lot.........! Regards Ferdinand PS Dr. STeiner is certainly of that opinion, and I, too. Hugh Lovel wrote: > >I just was looking at a paper where scientists looked at the effects of > >earthworm ingestion on pjosphate rack availability. They concluded that the > >effect, greater P availability, was due to the intimate incorporation of the > >the rock particles with the soil. They showed electron micrographs of the > >rock particles int0 the soil vs. passed throught he gut of the worm. The > >seived particles had air all around them, whereas the "wormed" particles were > >completely enveloped by highly organic soil goo. Biochemically this will coat > >the particles with soil bacteria an chelating organic acids to make available > >many mineral goodies. BUT, more interestingly, energetically I see the worm > >alchemy of uniting Positive and negative. Granite, basalt, rock phos, all > >paramagnetic, or positive, elements united with the diamagnetic, or negative, > >humus elements to make the soil hum with the elixir. Something that > >machanical mixing was not able to do, but rather left the two separate. But > >maybe I am just spewing. > > > >Chris Shade > > Chris > > Mechanical mixing may very well be counter productive. Ever watch how pigs > root? They have a keen sense of what minerals are in the soil, and they > ingest tasty minerals such as various rock powders, humates, gyp, rock > phos, wood ash, etc. by choice. The pig is just about the closest thing to > an earthworm on four legs. But the earthworm takes this business a good bit > farther. If you leave the material you're applying spread on the surface > they will come up at night and get it. Plant roots like earthworm tunnels, > just incidentally, and will get the minerals after the earthworms are > through. So incorporation may just make it more difficult for the earthworm > to ingest the material and that much slower for plant response. Certainly > on my hillside with all the finely chopped vegetation (earthworm food) > salted down with granite dust the following round of vegetation showed all > the signs of getting what was spread on the surface. Needless to say, > however, there was abundant earthworm activity. > > Best, > > Hugh Lovel > Blairsville, Georgia > > "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." > --Walter Russell -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 07:30:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA11646 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:30:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA06835; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:18:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA06760 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:17:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.12]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:21:38 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:20:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Monsanto Goes to Harvard Message-ID: <781B81601863863F8525673C0043BF17.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 308 Tuesday, March 23 4 pm Transgenic Crops, Small Farmers, Food Security, and Biosafety in Asia Robert Horsch, Sustainable Development Center, Monsanto Corporation Harvard, Coolidge Hall, Room 2 Anybody who goes please take notes and report back. Maybe somebody can ask why Monsanto shouldn't be sued into bankruptcy for destroying a common good through its program of breeding bacillus thuringensis resistant insects by genetic manipulation of plants. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 08:41:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12488 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:41:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA13138; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:30:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12912 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:28:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33697-673>; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:30:45 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:30:45 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: Re:OFF TOPIC Vacc. Info for Parents Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 309 Dear All; I know this topic may not really be biodynamically related, but in one way it is, those who have had multiple vaccinations, along with the foreign toxins introduced, also have had energy blockages set up... Biodynamically grown food is grown with subtle energies, and some people who eat the food, experience short term reactions/aggravations. Their energy is not able to flow through the meridians to the tissues,it is restricted and the energy has to find another avenue to reach the cells or energy deficient areas. Energy is really not a unitary, but rather a spectrum, like a rainbow. In a properly functioning body, the brain/mind is able to determine which energy is needed, and where it is needed in the body. The purpose of the energy flow, the meridians system, is to provide to each individual cell the information it needs to function properly. If the energy system is not functioning properly the energy-message destined for a specific cell may be garbled or lost. If this happens, then the cell must do the best it can on it's own, without its usual mechanism for control. Living beings, humanity included, have the ability to secure all the energy they need from both gross physical and subtle energy sources. We get gross physical energy from food, water and air. We take in subtle energy, chi, via the meridian system and sometimes there may be a short circuit, poor insulation, a blocked/broken wire. For those concerned about your children and vaccinations, I have a really good background article I would be willing to privately email to anyone interested. Thank you Jane for bringing up the topic of the subtle energies and good forces. Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia email: av204@chebucto.ns.ca From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 09:23:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA12957 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:22:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA17719; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:09:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17653 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:09:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.137] (client-151-196-125-137.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.137]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15301 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:11:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903221411.JAA15301@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:14:08 -0500 Subject: Off: Congress + sustainable resolution From: "Steven McFadden" To: BD now Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3004935248_557654_MIME_Part" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 310 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3004935248_557654_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This resolution, soon to be introduced in Congress, may be of interest to readers of the BDNow list. Best, Steven ---------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Global Sustainable Development Resolution Author: Campaign for Labor Rights Date: 1999/03/16 Global Sustainable Development Resolution of 1999 [to be introduced soon in the House by Representative Bernie Sanders] The Congress of the United States hereby resolves: Section 1: Preamble Whereas a new global economy has emerged over the past 25 years; Whereas the global economy has had a profound and at times destructive impact on the majority of Americans and of people around the world; Whereas most people have had little say in designing or governing the global economy; Whereas the current structure of the global economy therefore violates the fundamental right of people to equality and self-determination as proclaimed in the US Declaration of Independence and the International Declaration of Human Rights; Whereas uncontrolled globalization threatens the very sustainability of local and global environments; Whereas the global economy has entered a crisis that threatens the economic security and well-being of people all over the world; Therefore be it resolved: that the people and government of the United States and of the other nations of the world initiate a process of establishing democratic control over the global economy. Section 2: Findings It is the finding of Congress that: 1. Experience has proved that unregulated economic globalization tends to generate the following deleterious consequences: Volatility. (a) Global financial deregulation has reduced barriers to the international flow of capital. More than $1.5 trillion now flow across international borders every day in the foreign currency market alone. This excess volume contributes to financial instability, and is too large for each nation to be able to intervene to restore monetary stability. The result is a world economy marked by dangerous and disruptive financial volatility. Race to the bottom. (b) Globalization promotes a destructive competition in which workers, communities, and entire countries are forced to cut labor, social, and environmental costs in order to attract mobile capital. When many countries do the same thing the result is a disastrous "race to the bottom." As each workforce, community, or country seeks to become more competitive by reducing its wages and social and environmental overheads, lower wages and reduced public spending result in less buying power. This leads to stagnation, recession, unemployment, and global economic crisis. Impoverishment (c) The past quarter-century of globalization has seen not a reduction but a vast increase in poverty. For example, i. Globally, unemployment is approaching one billion. ii. In the United States, real average wages were $9 per hour in 1973; twenty-five years later they were $8 per hour. The median family income was $1,000 less in 1996 than in 1989. The typical married-couple family worked 247 more hours per year in 1996 than in 1989-that is more than 6 weeks worth of additional work. Inequality. (d) Globalization has contributed to an enormous increase in the concentration of wealth and the growth of poverty both within countries and worldwide. 447 billionaires have wealth greater than the income of the bottom half of humanity. In the U.S., the richest man has wealth equal to that of the bottom 40 per cent of the American people. The total wealth of the world's three richest individuals is greater than the combined gross domestic product of the 48 poorest countries-a quarter of all the world's states. The world's 225 richest individuals, of whom 60 are Americans with total assets of $311 billion, have a combined wealth of over $1 trillion-equal to the annual income of the poorest 47% of the entire world's population. The downward pressures of globalization have been focused most intensively on discriminated-against groups that have the least power to resist, including women, racial and ethnic minorities, and indigenous peoples. Women have been the prime victims of exploitation in export industries and have suffered the brunt of cutbacks in public services and support for basic needs. Immigrants and racial and ethnic minorities in many parts of the world have not only been subject to exploitation, but have been abused as scapegoats for the economic troubles caused by corporate globalization. Indigenous people have had their traditional ways of life disrupted and their economic resources plundered by global corporations and governments doing their bidding. Degradation of Democracy. (e) Globalization has reduced the power of individuals and peoples to shape their destinies through participation in democratic processes. i. Of the 100 largest economies in the world, 51 today are corporations, not countries. Globalization has greatly increased the power of global corporations relative to local, state, and national governments. The ability of governments to pursue development, full employment, or other national economic goals has been undermined by the growing power of capital to relocate to other jurisdictions. ii. There are few international equivalents to the anti-trust, consumer protection, and other laws that provide a degree of corporate accountability at the national level. As a result, corporations are able to dictate policy to governments, backed by the threat that they will relocate. iii. Governmental authority has been undermined by trade agreements, such as NAFTA and the WTO, and by international financial institutions, such as the IMF and World Bank, which restrict the power of national, state, and local governments to govern their own economies. These institutions themselves are sorely lacking in democratic control and accountability. They are all too often themselves complicit in the denial of human rights. 2. The global economy has entered a crisis that threatens the well-being of the people of the United States and the world. a) President Clinton has called the current global crisis the worst in 50 years and "the most important subject now facing the world community." b) Growth of the global economy is at its lowest point in 30 years. c) The countries that were once the showcases for globalization are now in economic shambles. South Korea's economy has shrunk by 45% and Thailand's by 50%. Indonesia's has shrunk by nearly 80%, and gross domestic product per capita has fallen from $3500 to $750. d) The economic crisis that started in Asia is now ricocheting around the world. What has become a global crisis is now affecting trade, employment, capital markets, agriculture, and other aspects of life in the United States and around the world. 3. It is in the common interest of the people of the United States and of the people of the rest of the world to rectify these defects. Section 3: Policy Goals It is hereby declared to be the policy of the United States: 1. To reconstruct the global economy to realize the following goals: a) Democracy at every level from the local to the global. b) Human rights for all people. c) Environmental sustainability worldwide. d) Economic advancement of the most oppressed and exploited parts of the population, including women, immigrants, racial and ethnic minorities, and indigenous peoples. 2. To construct a multilevel global economy which strengthens the capacity of democratic governments at every level from local to global to expand the capacity of their people to meet their economic needs. a) Under the UN Charter on the Economic Rights and Duties of States, governments have the obligation to protect the human rights of their citizens. These include their labor, social, environmental, economic, and cultural rights. Governments have the right to pursue policies necessary to fulfill these rights. b) In a global economy, international coordination and international institutions are at times necessary in order to make it possible for local and national governments to effectively meet their obligations to their own people and exercise the rights necessary to do so. c) To the extent feasible, economic decision making should follow the subsidiarity principle, under which decision making should be exercised as close to the locus of the actual activity being decided as possible. 3. To reduce the threat of financial volatility and meltdown by: a) Encouraging capital controls to reduce the destabilizing impact of international financial speculation ("hot money") and to restore national monetary autonomy, including: i. National controls on capital inflow and/or outflow. ii. Levies on currency exchange transactions (commonly known as a "Tobin Tax" after James Tobin, Nobel economist) to reduce the volume of short-term transactions, restore, national monetary autonomy, and provide a resource pool for sustainable development and environmental protection. iii. Other forms of regulations on currency exchange rates and volumes. b) Forestalling competitive devaluations: help countries adjust to changing conditions without drastic devaluations and massive increases in exports. c) Supporting appropriate global demand: A major problem of the world economy is insufficient economic demand. This threatens a global depression. The maintenance of adequate demand worldwide requires cooperation of the major economic powers working in tandem to ensure global demand adequate to help all economies grow. Efforts to increase demand should focus primarily on increasing equity and sustainability by expanding the resources devoted to the global poor and the global environment. d) Making speculators pay for their losses: International bailouts have insulated large banks and investors from the consequences of their high-risk speculations. That encourages more such speculative ventures ("moral hazard"). The result is even more international volatility. When assistance is provided for economies in trouble, it must go to benefit the people, not to international investors who lured them into trouble in the first place. 4. To counter inequality, impoverishment, and the race to the bottom by: a) Protecting the global environment by encouraging sustainable development that enhances the environment as a long-term resource. b) Encouraging sustainable development by means of global, national, and local policies that: i. Ensure livable wages. ii. make credit available for small and medium-sized locally-owned businesses and farms. iii. pursue a progressive tax policy that reduces the burden on the poor. iv. Promote long-term investment rather than short-term foreign investment that just skims off speculative profits. v. Encourage spending on primary health care, basic education, and other social services that improve people's lives and provide the basis for long-term economic growth. vi. Empower people in local communities to use their resources to address their needs: International agreements should not interfere with the right of communities to set minimum standards and to pursue economic self-reliance. National and international policy should channel resources to locally controlled development. c) End global debt slavery: The debt of the poorest countries should be written off and other countries should be assisted to make sustainable development rather than debt repayment their first priority. d) Pursue cooperation among rich and poor countries to reduce world poverty: The current gap between the global rich and poor is unacceptable; it is unconscionable to act as if it can be a permanent feature of the global economy. e) Encourage people at the grassroots to organize themselves in strong and independent trade unions and other organizations to assure their participation in decisions impacting economic development and an equitable distribution of economic benefits. 5. To encourage democracy by: a) Using economic policy to support democracy and human rights: While humanitarian aid should be available to all in need, financial support should be provided only in ways that encourage democratization and popular participation and should not be used to perpetuate regimes that deny human rights. b) Democratizing the IMF, World Bank, other international financial institutions, and the G-7/8: It is unacceptable to assume that the rich countries of the world can monopolize decision-making regarding the global economy's future through dominant voting privileges at the International Financial Institutions and creation of major policy decisions through the G-7/8. Voting in international financial institutions must move toward the standard of equal representation for all the world's people. International economic policymaking must move from the "rich men's club" of the G-7/8 to a renewed North/South dialogue. c) Making international economic institutions transparent and accountable: The procedures, decisions, and programs of organizations like the World Bank, IMF, and WTO need to be open to public scrutiny. d) Letting those affected by international economic policies participate in making them: Instead of closed negotiations with top government and corporate officials, decisions about international economic agreements and loans should require participation by labor unions, environmental groups, women's organizations, development organizations, and other major sectors of civil society in each country. e) Encouraging governments at every level to establish sustainable development plans and provide international support for the implementation of such plans. f) Ending "crony capitalism" by reducing the domination of political systems and media by economic oligarchs and by increasing the capacity of people to organize themselves at the grassroots. Section 4: Policy Mandates I. Initiating National Dialogue 1. There is hereby established a U.S. Commission on the Global Economy to develop the broadest possible dialogue by the people of the United States among themselves and with the other peoples of the world regarding the future of the global economy. a) The purpose of the U.S. Commission on the Global Economy is to initiate a dialogue on the future of the global economy. b) The Commission shall: i. Hold hearings to investigate the effect of globalization on U.S. workers and industry and the environment. These hearings must include the full participation of civil society, including representatives from labor, women, minority, environmental, farm and small business groups. These results must be widely distributed and available for public comment. ii. Hold town meetings in major American cities to invite public participation in discussions. iii. Cooperate with similar commissions established by other countries and by the United Nations. iv. Report its findings and recommendations to Congress and the American people no later than one year after this Act is passed. II. Initiating Global Dialogue 1. The United States shall initiate the establishment of a United Nations Commission on the Global Economy. a) The purpose of the United Nations Commission on the Global Economy is to initiate a global dialogue on the future of the global economy. b) To indicate its ultimate accountability to all the world's people, the Commission will function under the auspices of the United Nations. c) The Commission will seek to revive the North-South Dialogue and thereby to reorient the global economy toward greater economic justice. d) The Commission will use and expand techniques developed over the past decade to include representatives of civil society and NGOs in UN conferences, including funding and support for civil society participation. e) Parallel national commissions will work with the Global Commission to develop the broadest possible dialogue regarding the future of the global economy. 2. The United Nations Commission on the Global Economy will also establish a Global Economy Truth Commission to provide citizens of the world with information needed to monitor the results, impacts, and failures of economic institutions and policy at every level. The Truth Commission's inquest will be provided the powers to investigate, publicize, and refer to other authorities abuses in the use of international funds and the powers of international financial institutions. III. Global Sustainable Development Agreement 1. The United Nations Commission on the Global Economy will initiate a series of Bretton Woods-type international conferences to establish new rules for the global economy. These conferences must include representatives not only of nation-states, bankers, and industry, but an equal number of citizen organizations from every country. Negotiations must be based on an open, inclusive, and democratic process. 2. These conferences shall make recommendations for and initiate negotiation of a Global Sustainable Development Agreement. The objective of the U.S. in that negotiation shall be to incorporate the principles, rules,and policies enunciated in this Act and establish the institutions described therein to implement them, as modified by the global dialogue described above. IV. Global Sustainable Development Financial Strategy 1. The United States shall enter into negotiations with other members of the United Nations to develop and implement a strategy to counter those aspects of the global financial system that make it more difficult for communities, regions, and countries to pursue sustainable development. 2. The purpose of this strategy shall be to restructure the international financial system to avoid global recessions, protect the environment, ensure full employment, reverse the polarization of wealth and poverty, and support the efforts of polities at all levels to mobilize and coordinate their economic resources. 3. To achieve these goals, the United States will work with other nations to: a) Encourage countries to pursue economic policies based on domestic economic growth and development, not domestic austerity in the interest of export-led growth. b) Encourage the G-7/8 countries to coordinate their economic policies to stimulate domestic demand and prevent global deflation. c) Help countries adjust currency exchange rates without competitive devaluations. d) Develop means for assuring global liquidity, such as an expansion of the system of Special Drawing Rights, in order to protect the global economy, especially poorer countries, from liquidity squeezes. e) Encourage a return to more stable exchange rates in order to achieve the original purposes of the Bretton Woods agreement. f) Reduce the flows of destabilizing short-term capital by the adoption of capital controls as necessary. g) Establish standards for and oversee the regulation of banks and all other financial institutions by national and international regulatory authorities. h) Encourage the shift of financial resources from speculation to useful, environmentally-positive, sustainable development; including targeted investment for small and medium size businesses, farmers, and community development. i) Pursue other measures to ensure global demand adequate to provide full employment and a rising standard of living. 4. The United States, in cooperation with other nations, shall establish levies on all foreign currency transactions ("Tobin Tax") and shall coordinate with them the mechanisms for implementing nationally adopted levies on foreign currency transactions. The purpose of these levies will be: a) To reduce the volume of destabilizing short-term cross-border financial flows. b) To restore national monetary autonomy over national currency. c) To provide pools of funds for investment in long-term environmentally and socially sustainable development in poor communities and countries. 5. The United States, in cooperation with other nations, shall establish one or more public international investment funds. The purpose of these funds shall be > a) to meet human and environmental needs and ensure adequate global demand by channeling funds into sustainable long-term investment. > b) to counter global economic cycles by appropriate expansion and contraction of fund activities. > 6. The United States, in cooperation with other nations, shall develop international institutions to perform functions of monetary regulation currently performed inadequately by national central banks. These may include: a) A system of internationally-coordinated minimum reserve requirements on the consolidated global balance sheets of all financial firms. b) Utilization of reserve requirements to counter cyclical variations in global growth rates. c) Coordinated efforts to reduce fluctuations in currency exchange rates through complementary national fiscal and monetary policies and international exchange rate agreements. V. Debt Reduction 1. The United States shall work with the G-7, the commercial banks, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, regional development banks, and other international financial institutions to write off the debts of the most impoverished countries by the end of the year 2000. The final goal of all debt forgiveness initiatives will be to allow countries to pursue sustainable domestic development. a) The United States will cancel all amounts owed to the United States by the most impoverished countries. b) The United States shall instruct its representatives in the IMF, World Bank, and other international financial institutions to advocate full debt cancellation for the most impoverished countries and to participate in debt relief. Sources for debt relief may include previous IMF accounts, Special Drawing Authority (SDA), Enhanced Structural Adjustment Facility (ESAF) Reserve Account, lower collateral requirements, and gold. The IFI's shall provide one billion U.S. dollars of their own resources to support substantial debt relief for the highly indebted countries. c) Debt cancellation shall not depend on adherence to structural adjustment or similar programs. d) Countries receiving debt relief shall be encouraged to support investment in human development by allocating at least 20 percent of savings from such relief to basic social services, with appropriate input from civil society in developing basic service plans. e) No impoverished country shall be required to pay an amount exceeding 5 percent of its annual export earnings toward the servicing of foreign loans. f) No funds received for debt relief may be used to increase military spending. 2. The United States will cooperate with other nations to establish an insolvency ("bankruptcy") mechanism for highly indebted nations. a) The insolvency mechanism will draw on the experience of other bankruptcy procedures for governments, such as the municipal insolvency provisions of Chapter 9 of the U.S. bankruptcy law. b) The insolvency mechanisms will provide for the creation of arbitration panels. Creditors and debtors will nominate an equal number of persons to serve as arbiters, who will themselves elect one more arbiter; together they will form the arbitration panel. c) The arbitration panel will establish the debtor country's capacity to pay, taking into account necessary expenditures for social safety nets to protect a minimum of human dignity of the poor and the debtor's economic future. d) Those persons affected by the results of arbitration will have the right to be represented in the proceedings. e) When an arbitration panel determines a country to be insolvent and its debts to be unrepayable, it shall restructure debts based on debtors' ability to pay, such restructuring to apply equally to governmental, IFI, and private creditors. VI. Reform of International Financial Institutions The United States Congress establishes the following conditions for any U.S. funding of the World Bank, the IMF, and other International Financial Institutions (IFIs): 1. Labor conditions a) The IFIs shall ensure conformance with internationally recognized worker rights set forth in the relevant conventions of the ILO, including the right of freedom of association, the right to organize and bargain collectively, freedom from discrimination, a prohibition on the use of any form of forced or compulsory labor, the right to strike, and certain minimum labor standards that take into account differences in development levels among nations including a minimum age for the employment of children, acceptable conditions of work with respect to minimum wages, hours of work, and occupational safety and health in every program. This conformance will be a condition of approval and renewal for every loan. b) IFI mission teams shall include a representative from the ILO to take the lead in negotiating labor issues. c) Local labor unions shall participate in these negotiations. d) The outcome of these dialogues shall be reflected in all IFI documents. 2. Environmental conditions a) The IFIs shall establish a systematic process to review in advance, and take into account in policy formation, projected impacts of each lending agreement on ecological sustainability. b) The IFIs shall employ natural resource economists with expertise in environmental accounting measures to integrate such measures in its technical assistance. c) Environmental regulations shall not be weakened under any IFI program. d) Loan programs shall encourage environmental tax policies to protect the environment by correcting negative environmental market externalities and other market failures. e) All IFI lending shall aim to strengthen environmental laws and increase borrowing government's capacity for environmental management and enforcement. Lending must also incorporate the goals of shifting the portfolio and operations toward environmentally sustainable investments. f) No IFI project or policy shall run contrary to the purpose or policy of any multilateral environmental agreement. g) The World Bank shall: i. invest 20% of its total energy portfolio in alternative/renewable energy, demand side management and energy efficiency programs in 1999. These share of these programs in the total energy portfolio shall increase 10 percent per year thereafter [to a permanent total of X percent]. ii. reduce carbon emissions on its entire portfolio by 10% per year [to a permanent total of X percent]. iii. develop and implement an action plan for meeting the energy needs of the world's 2 billion rural poor. iv. shift its transportation portfolio from road and highway construction to traffic demand management, road safety, rail, public transportation, and projects which benefit non-motorized transport users, especially in the poorest segments of society. v. expand its investments in sustainable agriculture projects that emphasize farmer participation, ecological education, and training to reduce use of pesticides and other chemical inputs. vi. assist governments in developing integrated policy frameworks to support sustainable agriculture and local and national food security. vii. forest protection, conservation, and reforestation shall be the priority objective for forest sector loans. viii. fund projects that examine alternatives to wood and better efficiency in wood use. ix. increase investments for demand side management and water efficiency projects. h) The World Bank shall exclude from funding: i. Infrastructure or extractive projects in frontier or primary tropical, temperate or boreal forests. ii. Logging or other forest projects unless certified by an accredited international certification body, such as the Forest Stewardship Council. iii. Projects in or impacting areas listed on the United Nations List of National Parks and Protected Areas, or Nature Reserves/Wilderness Areas, National Parks, or National Monuments or proposed nature sites. iv. Projects that involuntarily resettle more than 500 people. v. Large dam projects that do not incorporate the recommendations of the forthcoming final report of the World Commission on dams. vi. Projects involving the manufacture of ozone-depleting substances, or use of persistent organic pollutants, or hazardous pesticides. i) The IMF's Articles of Agreement shall be amended to reflect adherence to and enforcement of environmental sustainability, including: i. The establishment of an IMF system of environmental reviews. ii. Preparation of environmental impact statements for each Fund lending agreement. iii Requirement that borrowing countries, at a minimum, maintain and enforce existing environmental regulations. iv. Requirement that environmental spending as a percentage of GDP shall not decrease under any Fund program. 3. Social conditions a) Credit policies shall not decrease the availability of credit for small and medium sized locally-owned businesses and farms. b) No IFI economic reform program shall ever result in decreased real per capita public spending on the part of the borrower government in the areas of primary health care, basic education, and other basic social services. c) The IFIs will not advocate user fees for basic health and education services in any loan program. d) The IFIs shall establish a systematic process to review in advance, and to take into account in policy formation, projected impacts of each lending agreement on public health and poverty, as well as the impact of such policies on vulnerable groups such as women and children. 4. Democracy and Human Rights a) An independent monitoring program shall be established to identify violations of human rights by IFIs with the power to order IFIs to immediae agreement to which the U.S. is a party within six months of receiving the report, the Administration must at the end of the six month period withdraw from each trade agreement for which Congress has not expressed satisfaction by immediately initiating the withdrawal mechanisms contained in the trade agreement. 4. Congress hereby terminates all existing grants of trade agreement negotiating authority. The U.S. shall immediately cease ongoing negotiations of new trade and investment agreements until such time as Congress passes a new grant of negotiating authority and negotiating objectives. --MS_Mac_OE_3004935248_557654_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Off:  Congress + sustainable resolution This resolution, soon to be introduced in Congress, may be of interest to r= eaders of the BDNow list.   Best, Steven
----------------------------------------------------------


Subject: Global Sustainable Development Resolution
Author: Campaign for Labor Rights <clr@igc.apc.= org>
Date: 1999/03/16


Global Sustainable Development Resolution of 1999

[to be introduced soon in the House by Representative Bernie Sanders]

The Congress of the United States hereby resolves:

Section 1: Preamble

Whereas a new global economy has emerged over the past 25 years;

Whereas the global economy has had a profound and at times destructive
impact on the majority of Americans and of people around the world;

Whereas most people have had little say in designing or governing the
global economy;

Whereas the current structure of the global economy therefore violates the<= BR> fundamental right of people to equality and self-determination as
proclaimed in the US Declaration of Independence and the International
Declaration of Human Rights;

Whereas uncontrolled globalization threatens the very sustainability of
local and global environments;

Whereas the global economy has entered a crisis that threatens the economic=
security and well-being of people all over the world;

Therefore be it resolved: that the people and government of the United
States and of the other nations of the world initiate a process of
establishing democratic control over the global economy.

Section 2: Findings

It is the finding of Congress that:

1. Experience has proved that unregulated economic globalization tends to generate the following deleterious consequences:

Volatility.
(a) Global financial deregulation has reduced barriers to the international=
flow of capital. More than $1.5 trillion now flow across international
borders every day in the foreign currency market alone. This excess volume<= BR> contributes to financial instability, and is too large for each nation to be able to intervene to restore monetary stability. The result is a world economy marked by dangerous and disruptive financial volatility.

Race to the bottom.

 (b) Globalization promotes a destructive competition in which workers= ,
communities, and entire countries are forced to cut labor, social, and
environmental costs in order to attract mobile capital. When many countries=
do the same thing the result is a disastrous "race to the bottom."= ;

As each workforce, community, or country seeks to become more competitive by reducing its wages and social and environmental overheads, lower wages and reduced public spending result in less buying power. This leads to
stagnation, recession, unemployment, and global economic crisis.

Impoverishment

(c) The past quarter-century of globalization has seen not a reduction but<= BR> a vast increase in poverty. For example,

i. Globally, unemployment is approaching one billion.
ii. In the United States, real average wages were $9 per hour in 1973;
twenty-five years later they were $8 per hour. The median family income was=
$1,000 less in 1996 than in 1989. The typical married-couple family worked<= BR> 247 more hours per year in 1996 than in 1989-that is more than 6 weeks
worth of additional work.

Inequality.

(d) Globalization has contributed to an enormous increase in the
concentration of wealth and the growth of poverty both within countries and=
worldwide. 447 billionaires have wealth greater than the income of the
bottom half of humanity. In the U.S., the richest man has wealth equal to that of the bottom 40 per cent of the American people.

The total wealth of the world's three richest individuals is greater than the combined gross domestic product of the 48 poorest countries-a quarter of all the world's states.

The world's 225 richest individuals, of whom 60 are Americans with total assets of $311 billion, have a combined wealth of over $1 trillion-equal to=
the annual income of the poorest 47% of the entire world's population.

The downward pressures of globalization have been focused most intensively<= BR> on discriminated-against groups that have the least power to resist,
including women, racial and ethnic minorities, and indigenous peoples.
Women have been the prime victims of exploitation in export industries and<= BR> have suffered the brunt of cutbacks in public services and support for
basic needs. Immigrants and racial and ethnic minorities in many parts of the world have not only been subject to exploitation, but have been abused<= BR> as scapegoats for the economic troubles caused by corporate globalization.<= BR> Indigenous people have had their traditional ways of life disrupted and
their economic resources plundered by global corporations and governments doing their bidding.

Degradation of Democracy.

(e) Globalization has reduced the power of individuals and peoples to shape=
their destinies through participation in democratic processes.

i. Of the 100 largest economies in the world, 51 today are corporations, not countries. Globalization has greatly increased the power of global
corporations relative to local, state, and national governments. The
ability of governments to pursue development, full employment, or other
national economic goals has been undermined by the growing power of capital=
to relocate to other jurisdictions.

ii. There are few international equivalents to the anti-trust, consumer
protection, and other laws that provide a degree of corporate
accountability at the national level. As a result, corporations are able to=
dictate policy to governments, backed by the threat that they will
relocate.

iii. Governmental authority has been undermined by trade agreements, such as NAFTA and the WTO, and by international financial institutions, such as<= BR> the IMF and World Bank, which restrict the power of national, state, and local governments to govern their own economies. These institutions
themselves are sorely lacking in democratic control and accountability.
They are all too often themselves complicit in the denial of human rights.<= BR>
2. The global economy has entered a crisis that threatens the well-being of=
the people of the United States and the world.

a) President Clinton has called the current global crisis the worst in 50 years and "the most important subject now facing the world community.&= quot;

b) Growth of the global economy is at its lowest point in 30 years.

c) The countries that were once the showcases for globalization are now in<= BR> economic shambles. South Korea's economy has shrunk by 45% and Thailand's by 50%. Indonesia's has shrunk by nearly 80%, and gross domestic product per capita has fallen from $3500 to $750.

d) The economic crisis that started in Asia is now ricocheting around the world. What has become a global crisis is now affecting trade, employment,<= BR> capital markets, agriculture, and other aspects of life in the United
States and around the world.

3. It is in the common interest of the people of the United States and of the people of the rest of the world to rectify these defects.

 Section 3: Policy Goals

It is hereby declared to be the policy of the United States:

1. To reconstruct the global economy to realize the following goals:

a) Democracy at every level from the local to the global.
b) Human rights for all people.
c) Environmental sustainability worldwide.
d) Economic advancement of the most oppressed and exploited parts of the population, including women, immigrants, racial and ethnic minorities, and<= BR> indigenous peoples.

2. To construct a multilevel global economy which strengthens the capacity<= BR> of democratic governments at every level from local to global to expand the=
capacity of their people to meet their economic needs.

a) Under the UN Charter on the Economic Rights and Duties of States,
governments have the obligation to protect the human rights of their
citizens. These include their labor, social, environmental, economic, and cultural rights. Governments have the right to pursue policies necessary to=
fulfill these rights.

b) In a global economy, international coordination and international
institutions are at times necessary in order to make it possible for local<= BR> and national governments to effectively meet their obligations to their own=
people and exercise the rights necessary to do so.

c) To the extent feasible, economic decision making should follow the
subsidiarity principle, under which decision making should be exercised as<= BR> close to the locus of the actual activity being decided as possible.

3. To reduce the threat of financial volatility and meltdown by:

a) Encouraging capital controls to reduce the destabilizing impact of
international financial speculation ("hot money") and to restore = national
monetary autonomy, including:

i. National controls on capital inflow and/or outflow.

 ii. Levies on currency exchange transactions (commonly known as a &qu= ot;Tobin
Tax" after James Tobin, Nobel economist) to reduce the volume of short= -term
transactions, restore, national monetary autonomy, and provide a resource pool for sustainable development and environmental protection.

iii. Other forms of regulations on currency exchange rates and volumes.

b) Forestalling competitive devaluations: help countries adjust to changing=
conditions without drastic devaluations and massive increases in exports.
c) Supporting appropriate global demand: A major problem of the world
economy is insufficient economic demand. This threatens a global
depression. The maintenance of adequate demand worldwide requires
cooperation of the major economic powers working in tandem to ensure global=
demand adequate to help all economies grow. Efforts to increase demand
should focus primarily on increasing equity and sustainability by expanding=
the resources devoted to the global poor and the global environment.

d) Making speculators pay for their losses: International bailouts have
insulated large banks and investors from the consequences of their
high-risk speculations. That encourages more such speculative ventures
("moral hazard"). The result is even more international volatilit= y. When
assistance is provided for economies in trouble, it must go to benefit the<= BR> people, not to international investors who lured them into trouble in the first place.

4. To counter inequality, impoverishment, and the race to the bottom by:
a) Protecting the global environment by encouraging sustainable development=
that enhances the environment as a long-term resource.

b) Encouraging sustainable development by means of global, national, and local policies that:
i. Ensure livable wages.
ii. make credit available for small and medium-sized locally-owned
businesses and farms.
iii. pursue a progressive tax policy that reduces the burden on the poor. iv. Promote long-term investment rather than short-term foreign investment<= BR> that just skims off speculative profits.
v. Encourage spending on primary health care, basic education, and other social services that improve people's lives and provide the basis for
long-term economic growth.
vi. Empower people in local communities to use their resources to address their needs: International agreements should not interfere with the right of communities to set minimum standards and to pursue economic
self-reliance. National and international policy should channel resources to locally controlled development.

c) End global debt slavery: The debt of the poorest countries should be
written off and other countries should be assisted to make sustainable
development rather than debt repayment their first priority.

d) Pursue cooperation among rich and poor countries to reduce world
poverty: The current gap between the global rich and poor is unacceptable;<= BR> it is unconscionable to act as if it can be a permanent feature of the
global economy.

e) Encourage people at the grassroots to organize themselves in strong and<= BR> independent trade unions and other organizations to assure their
participation in decisions impacting economic development and an equitable<= BR> distribution of economic benefits.

5. To encourage democracy by:

a) Using economic policy to support democracy and human rights: While
humanitarian aid should be available to all in need, financial support
should be provided only in ways that encourage democratization and popular<= BR> participation and should not be used to perpetuate regimes that deny human<= BR> rights.

b) Democratizing the IMF, World Bank, other international financial
institutions, and the G-7/8: It is unacceptable to assume that the rich
countries of the world can monopolize decision-making regarding the global<= BR> economy's future through dominant voting privileges at the International Financial Institutions and creation of major policy decisions through the G-7/8. Voting in international financial institutions must move toward the<= BR> standard of equal representation for all the world's people. International<= BR> economic policymaking must move from the "rich men's club" of the= G-7/8 to
a renewed North/South dialogue.

c) Making international economic institutions transparent and accountable:<= BR> The procedures, decisions, and programs of organizations like the World
Bank, IMF, and WTO need to be open to public scrutiny.

d) Letting those affected by international economic policies participate in=
making them: Instead of closed negotiations with top government and
corporate officials, decisions about international economic agreements and<= BR> loans should require participation by labor unions, environmental groups, women's organizations, development organizations, and other major sectors of civil society in each country.

e) Encouraging governments at every level to establish sustainable
development plans and provide international support for the implementation<= BR> of such plans.

f) Ending "crony capitalism" by reducing the domination of politi= cal
systems and media by economic oligarchs and by increasing the capacity of people to organize themselves at the grassroots.

Section 4: Policy Mandates

I. Initiating National Dialogue

1. There is hereby established a U.S. Commission on the Global Economy to develop the broadest possible dialogue by the people of the United States among themselves and with the other peoples of the world regarding the
future of the global economy.

a) The purpose of the U.S. Commission on the Global Economy is to initiate<= BR> a dialogue on the future of the global economy.

b) The Commission shall:

i. Hold hearings to investigate the effect of globalization on U.S. workers=
and industry and the environment. These hearings must include the full
participation of civil society, including representatives from labor,
women, minority, environmental, farm and small business groups. These
results must be widely distributed and available for public comment.

ii. Hold town meetings in major American cities to invite public
participation in discussions.

iii. Cooperate with similar commissions established by other countries and<= BR> by the United Nations.

iv. Report its findings and recommendations to Congress and the American people no later than one year after this Act is passed.

II. Initiating Global Dialogue

1. The United States shall initiate the establishment of a United Nations Commission on the Global Economy.

a) The purpose of the United Nations Commission on the Global Economy is to=
initiate a global dialogue on the future of the global economy.

b) To indicate its ultimate accountability to all the world's people, the Commission will function under the auspices of the United Nations.

c) The Commission will seek to revive the North-South Dialogue and thereby<= BR> to reorient the global economy toward greater economic justice.

d) The Commission will use and expand techniques developed over the past decade to include representatives of civil society and NGOs in UN
conferences, including funding and support for civil society participation.=

e) Parallel national commissions will work with the Global Commission to develop the broadest possible dialogue regarding the future of the global economy.

2. The United Nations Commission on the Global Economy will also establish<= BR> a Global Economy Truth Commission to provide citizens of the world with
information needed to monitor the results, impacts, and failures of
economic institutions and policy at every level. The Truth Commission's
inquest will be provided the powers to investigate, publicize, and refer to other authorities abuses in the use of international funds and the
powers of international financial institutions.

III. Global Sustainable Development Agreement

1. The United Nations Commission on the Global Economy will initiate a
series of Bretton Woods-type international conferences to establish new
rules for the global economy. These conferences must include
representatives not only of nation-states, bankers, and industry, but an equal number of citizen organizations from every country. Negotiations must=
be based on an open, inclusive, and democratic process.

2. These conferences shall make recommendations for and initiate
negotiation of a Global Sustainable Development Agreement. The objective of=
the U.S. in that negotiation shall be to incorporate the principles,
rules,and policies enunciated in this Act and establish the institutions described therein to implement them, as modified by the global dialogue
described above.

IV. Global Sustainable Development Financial Strategy

1. The United States shall enter into negotiations with other members of the United Nations to develop and implement a strategy to counter those
aspects of the global financial system that make it more difficult for
communities, regions, and countries to pursue sustainable development.

2. The purpose of this strategy shall be to restructure the international financial system to avoid global recessions, protect the environment,
ensure full employment, reverse the polarization of wealth and poverty, and=
support the efforts of polities at all levels to mobilize and coordinate their economic resources.

3. To achieve these goals, the United States will work with other nations to:

a) Encourage countries to pursue economic policies based on domestic
economic growth and development, not domestic austerity in the interest of<= BR> export-led growth.

b) Encourage the G-7/8 countries to coordinate their economic policies to stimulate domestic demand and prevent global deflation.

c) Help countries adjust currency exchange rates without competitive
devaluations.

d) Develop means for assuring global liquidity, such as an expansion of the=
system of Special Drawing Rights, in order to protect the global economy, especially poorer countries, from liquidity squeezes.

e) Encourage a return to more stable exchange rates in order to achieve the=
original purposes of the Bretton Woods agreement.

f) Reduce the flows of destabilizing short-term capital by the adoption of<= BR> capital controls as necessary.

g) Establish standards for and oversee the regulation of banks and all
other financial institutions by national and international regulatory
authorities.

h) Encourage the shift of financial resources from speculation to useful, environmentally-positive, sustainable development; including targeted
investment for small and medium size businesses, farmers, and community
development.

i) Pursue other measures to ensure global demand adequate to provide full employment and a rising standard of living.

4. The United States, in cooperation with other nations, shall establish levies on all foreign currency transactions ("Tobin Tax") and sha= ll
coordinate with them the mechanisms for implementing nationally adopted
levies on foreign currency transactions. The purpose of these levies will be:

a) To reduce the volume of destabilizing short-term cross-border financial<= BR> flows.

b) To restore national monetary autonomy over national currency.

c) To provide pools of funds for investment in long-term environmentally and socially sustainable development in poor communities and countries.

5. The United States, in cooperation with other nations, shall establish one or more public international investment funds. The purpose of these
funds shall be
>
a) to meet human and environmental needs and ensure adequate global demand<= BR> by channeling funds into sustainable long-term investment.
>
b) to counter global economic cycles by appropriate expansion and
contraction of fund activities.
>
6. The United States, in cooperation with other nations, shall develop
international institutions to perform functions of monetary regulation
currently performed inadequately by national central banks. These may
include:

a) A system of internationally-coordinated minimum reserve requirements on<= BR> the consolidated global balance sheets of all financial firms.

b) Utilization of reserve requirements to counter cyclical variations in global growth rates.

c) Coordinated efforts to reduce fluctuations in currency exchange rates through complementary national fiscal and monetary policies and
international exchange rate agreements.

V. Debt Reduction

1. The United States shall work with the G-7, the commercial banks, the
International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, regional development banks, and other international financial institutions to write off the debts of the most impoverished countries by the end of the year 2000. The final goal=
of all debt forgiveness initiatives will be to allow countries to pursue sustainable domestic development.

a) The United States will cancel all amounts owed to the United States by the most impoverished countries.

b) The United States shall instruct its representatives in the IMF, World Bank, and other international financial institutions to advocate full debt<= BR> cancellation for the most impoverished countries and to participate in debt=
relief. Sources for debt relief may include previous IMF accounts, Special<= BR> Drawing Authority (SDA), Enhanced Structural Adjustment Facility  (ESA= F)
Reserve Account, lower collateral requirements, and gold. The IFI's shall provide one billion U.S. dollars of their own resources to support
substantial debt relief for the highly indebted countries.

c) Debt cancellation shall not depend on adherence to structural adjustment=
or similar programs.

d) Countries receiving debt relief shall be encouraged to support
investment in human development by allocating at least 20 percent of
savings from such relief to basic social services, with appropriate input from civil society in developing basic service plans.

e) No impoverished country shall be required to pay an amount exceeding 5 percent of its annual export earnings toward the servicing of foreign
loans.

f) No funds received for debt relief may be used to increase military
spending.

2. The United States will cooperate with other nations to establish an
insolvency ("bankruptcy") mechanism for highly indebted nations.<= BR>
a) The insolvency mechanism will draw on the experience of other bankruptcy=
procedures for governments, such as the municipal insolvency provisions of<= BR> Chapter 9 of the U.S. bankruptcy law.

b) The insolvency mechanisms will provide for the creation of arbitration panels. Creditors and debtors will nominate an equal number of persons to serve as arbiters, who will themselves elect one more arbiter; together
they will form the arbitration panel.

c) The arbitration panel will establish the debtor country's capacity to pay, taking into account necessary expenditures for social safety nets to protect a minimum of human dignity of the poor and the debtor's economic future.

d) Those persons affected by the results of arbitration will have the right=
to be represented in the proceedings.

e) When an arbitration panel determines a country to be insolvent and its debts to be unrepayable, it shall restructure debts based on debtors'
ability to pay, such restructuring to apply equally to governmental, IFI, and private creditors.

VI. Reform of International Financial Institutions

The United States Congress establishes the following conditions for any
U.S. funding of the World Bank, the IMF, and other International Financial<= BR> Institutions (IFIs):

1. Labor conditions

a) The IFIs shall ensure conformance with internationally recognized worker=
rights set forth in the relevant conventions of the ILO, including the
right of freedom of association, the right to organize and bargain
collectively, freedom from discrimination, a prohibition on the use of any<= BR> form of forced or compulsory labor, the right to strike, and certain
minimum labor standards that take into account differences in development levels among nations including a minimum age for the employment of
children, acceptable conditions of work with respect to minimum wages,
hours of work, and occupational safety and health in every program. This conformance will be a condition of approval and renewal for every loan.

 b) IFI mission teams shall include a representative from the ILO to t= ake
the lead in negotiating labor issues.

c) Local labor unions shall participate in these negotiations.

d) The outcome of these dialogues shall be reflected in all IFI documents.<= BR>
2. Environmental conditions

a) The IFIs shall establish a systematic process to review in advance, and<= BR> take into account in policy formation, projected impacts of each lending agreement on ecological sustainability.

b) The IFIs shall employ natural resource economists with expertise in
environmental accounting measures to integrate such measures in its
technical assistance.

c) Environmental regulations shall not be weakened under any IFI program.
d) Loan programs shall encourage environmental tax policies to protect the<= BR> environment by correcting negative environmental market externalities and other market failures.

 e) All IFI lending shall aim to strengthen environmental laws and inc= rease
borrowing government's capacity for environmental management and
enforcement. Lending must also incorporate the goals of shifting the
portfolio and operations toward environmentally sustainable investments.
f) No IFI project or policy shall run contrary to the purpose or policy of<= BR> any multilateral environmental agreement.

g) The World Bank shall:

i. invest 20% of its total energy portfolio in alternative/renewable
energy, demand side management and energy efficiency programs in 1999.
These share of these programs in the total energy portfolio shall increase<= BR> 10 percent per year thereafter [to a permanent total of X percent].

ii. reduce carbon emissions on its entire portfolio by 10% per year [to a permanent total of X percent].

iii. develop and implement an action plan for meeting the energy needs of the world's 2 billion rural poor.

iv. shift its transportation portfolio from road and highway construction to traffic demand management, road safety, rail, public transportation, and=
projects which benefit non-motorized transport users, especially in the
poorest segments of society.

v. expand its investments in sustainable agriculture projects that
emphasize farmer participation, ecological education, and training to
reduce use of pesticides and other chemical inputs.

vi. assist governments in developing integrated policy frameworks to
support sustainable agriculture and local and national food security.

vii. forest protection, conservation, and reforestation shall be the
priority objective for forest sector loans.

viii. fund projects that examine alternatives to wood and better efficiency=
in wood use.

ix. increase investments for demand side management and water efficiency projects.

 h) The World Bank shall exclude from funding:

i. Infrastructure or extractive projects in frontier or primary tropical, temperate or boreal forests.

ii. Logging or other forest projects unless certified by an accredited
international certification body, such as the Forest Stewardship Council.
iii. Projects in or impacting areas listed on the United Nations List of National Parks and Protected Areas, or Nature Reserves/Wilderness Areas, National Parks, or National Monuments or proposed nature sites.

iv. Projects that involuntarily resettle more than 500 people.

v. Large dam projects that do not incorporate the recommendations of the forthcoming final report of the World Commission on dams.

vi. Projects involving the manufacture of ozone-depleting substances, or use of persistent organic pollutants, or hazardous pesticides.

i) The IMF's Articles of Agreement shall be amended to reflect adherence to=
and enforcement of environmental sustainability, including:

i. The establishment of an IMF system of environmental reviews.

ii. Preparation of environmental impact statements for each Fund lending agreement.

iii Requirement that borrowing countries, at a minimum, maintain and
enforce existing environmental regulations.

iv. Requirement that environmental spending as a percentage of GDP shall not decrease under any Fund program.

3. Social conditions

a) Credit policies shall not decrease the availability of credit for small<= BR> and medium sized locally-owned businesses and farms.

b) No IFI economic reform program shall ever result in decreased real per capita public spending on the part of the borrower government in the areas<= BR> of primary health care, basic education, and other basic social services.
c) The IFIs will not advocate user fees for basic health and education
services in any loan program.

d) The IFIs shall establish a systematic process to review in advance, and<= BR> to take into account in policy formation, projected impacts of each lending=
agreement on public health and poverty, as well as the impact of such
policies on vulnerable groups such as women and children.

 4. Democracy and Human Rights

a) An independent monitoring program shall be established to identify
violations of human rights by IFIs with the power to order IFIs to immediae=
agreement to which the U.S. is a party within six months of receiving the report, the  Administration must at the end of the six month period withdraw from each trade agreement for which Congress has not expressed
satisfaction by immediately initiating the withdrawal mechanisms contained<= BR> in the trade agreement.

 4. Congress hereby terminates all existing grants of trade agreement<= BR> negotiating authority. The U.S. shall immediately cease ongoing
negotiations of new trade and investment agreements until such time as
Congress passes a new grant of negotiating authority and negotiating
objectives.






--MS_Mac_OE_3004935248_557654_MIME_Part-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 09:32:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13168 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:32:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA19497; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA19313 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:20:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.30]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:25:13 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:23:46 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: THE FUTURE OF CITIES (from the CSA Mailing List) Message-ID: <762B4FC1F8C1B5C88525673C004F0938.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id JAA19320 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 311 In the Global Futures Bulletin #79 and 80, a matter very close to my research field is discussed, city future, and I have added the following remark. Since I think that the issue is of interest also to the CSA-members, I take the liberty to post it also to you, in order to ecourage your work. FG THE FUTURE OF CITIES Folke Günther [1] A very interesting discussion on urban development has taken place in the GFB #79 and #80 by Peter Newman [2], Ted Trainer [3] and John McLaughlin [4], and in the editorial comments to their compositions. In the discussions, however, some important issues have been foreseen that must be pointed out: I. Energy dependence Urban structures are not only heavily energy using, but also can it be said that they are a result [5] of energy availability. This matter can naturally be discussed, but I think that almost everybody will agree with the statement that a conurbation is heavily energy dependent. Thus, the sustainability of a city is dependent on easily accessible energy. An increasing number of studies [6] doubt that energy will be easily accessible even in the close future. Even in a case where this is not agreed with, it should be taken up as a consideration in the sustainable development discussion. The energy dependence is not only a function of personal transportation/urban sprawl, but also an increasing amount of energy used in the food system. A low estimate is that the food system requires ten times the energy in the food, probably more. The US food system reached that (in)efficiency around 1980 [7]. Since the average food energy needed to sustain a person is about 1000 kWh per year, this means that the food related energy requirements of a person (10 000 kWh/yr) are larger than those of transportation (3 500 kWh/yr) or space heating/cooling (4 000 kWh/yr). Naturally, this correspondingly affects the vulnerability to energy availability of the different systems. Therefore, urban sprawl and urbanisation will only take place in a situation characterised by easily accessible energy. If a habitation system can be found that would diminish this energy dependency considerably, it would be much less vulnerable. II. Nutrient dependency When people live in a crowded area (a conurbation) the food can not be produced locally for its inhabitants (see point I) but must be imported from a wide area. Nutrients, of which phosphorus is the scarcest in the support area, follow the food. Hence fertilisers must be supplied to the food growing area, and they are accumulated in the urban area, or lost into seas or lakes. To my knowledge, there are no cities that maintain a circulation of nutrients to the supporting area, but all have a net import or throughput of nutrients. This situation has several complications. First, there is a support ? pollution problem. The time-horizon for availability of phosphorus for nutrient production (at current energy prices!) is 100 ? 150 years. In the other end, phosphorus (and nitrogen) compounds are serious water pollutants. To avoid the pollution problem, an increasing part of the cities have installed wastewater plants. If phosphorus is not let out of the area, it will accumulate there, mainly as sludge from the plants. The sludge is deposited in the vicinity, either on landfills or on local agriculture. By this, the accumulation in the area will go on. However, when an increasing amount of nutrients is accumulated in the area the non-point leakage will increase. After some time, the total leakage will amount to a substantial part of the import, and the phosphorus flow is redirected into the flow import ? accumulation ? leakage, instead of the earlier import ? export mode. The end result is the same, however, with depletion in one end and pollution in the other. This is what I call a HEAP-trap (Hampered Effluent Accumulation Processes) [8]. It is clearly an unsustainable conduct. Therefore, urban sprawl and urbanisation will only take place in a situation characterised by easily accessible energy and easily accessible nutrients, especially phosphorus. The only way to avoid this problem is to develop a local food production system that also can re-use the nutrients. The lesser the access to cheap energy and nutrients are, the closer must the loop be. A conclusion: If long-time survival is the issue, local, mainly self-supporting communities must replace the large conurbations. Started soon, the process must not necessarily be very fast. I call this process a ?ruralisation?. [1] Folke Günther, disserting at Department of Systems Ecology, NMR, Stockholm University, Sweden (Ecological Adaptation of Human Settlements). Lecturer in Division of Human Ecology, Lund University, Sweden. URL:http://www.etn.lu.se/~folke g/folkegsv.htm (sorry, most of it is in Swedish) E-mail: Folke.Gunther@humecol.lu.se [2] Newman, Peter 'Cities and Smart Growth' Global Futures Bulletin #79 01 Mar, 1999 [3] Trainer, Ted 'Smart Growth' Global Futures Bulletin #80 15 Mar, 1999 [4] McLaughlin, John Impact of the Net on Urban Planning/Transport Global Futures Bulletin #80 15 Mar, 1999 [5] A diagram shoving the development if cities compared to the global energy use can be found (in an article in swedish) at http://www.etn.lu.se/~folke g/RURSV2.HTM [6] http://hubbert.mines.edu/ ; http://dieoff.org/page1.htm ; Campbell, C. J., 1997. The Coming Oil Crisis. Multi-Science Publishing Company / Petroconsultants S.A.; Campbell, C. J. and J. H. Laherrère, 1998. The End of Cheap Oil. Scientific American, 3: 78-83 [7] Hall, C.A.S., C.J.Cleveland and R.Kaufmann, 1986. Energy and Resource Quality. Wiley Interscience, New York. [8] Günther, F., 1997. Hampered Effluent Accumulation Processes: Phosphorus Management and Societal Structure. Ecological Economics, 21, 159-174. Elsevier -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Folke Günther +46 (0)46/ 14 14 29 el. +46 (0)46/222 36 98. Kollegievägen 19, 224 73 Lund, Sweden URL: http://www.humecol.lu.se/~folke g/folkegsv.htm --- When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it. A.A. Milne From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 12:04:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16934 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA14584; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:52:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from dns1.mcn.org (root@dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14001 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:48:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from 204.189.12.254 (ha-4e-men-m050.mcn.org [204.189.12.254]) by dns1.mcn.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA19479 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:51:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F60579.58C4@mcn.org> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:55:21 +0000 From: Kate Clarke Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Foxglove Farm (707) 937-4116 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Query on goats References: <199903072115.QAA16036@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 312 Hi Allen, Thanks for posting back. We are well into Spring plantings and got a copy for March from Charles and Cathrine Martin, the previous owners of this sweet little farm. It is the Stella that I use, thank you so much. I thought they were the same. We have just givin every dollar we could save, borrow and work for to the Martins for the down payment and this year is so critical for making a go. We have great people here and hope to find a few more. I use a borrowed buck's services and usually give the babies away. We do use the bands and do not de-horn.This is a majic and blessed land. Look for our web site in May. I traded for landscape work. Thanks for your support! Kate Clark Foxglove Farm, Comptche Ca. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 12:09:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17088 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15602; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:57:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15164 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.14.5]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:58:49 +0000 Message-ID: <36F6771D.3266@cwcom.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:00:13 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Math book advertisements Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 313 Of course, a minor point in all this is that the Lands' End brand (? consciously) misplaces the apostrophe, thus teaching bad English rather than good maths... Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 12:29:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17427 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:29:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19514; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:19:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19196 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.17]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:22:12 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:20:43 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: soil testing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 314 <> well Allan, non scientist that I am, in Will Brinton's defense, I must say having had the pleasure of hearing him speak at Roxbury farm that I was quite impressed with his enthusiam and knowledge. I found him a very compelling speaker. And again, one could be too busy to be a member of this list, with mail volume which tends to be overwhelming at times! Perhaps if you join the BDA, as Demeter says at their website, you can receive a discount on some lab work done at Woods End. <> regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 12:39:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17639 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA21187; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:28:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20601 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:25:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.18]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:29:51 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:28:22 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Spring Equinox--Cress Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 315 Parker, (from Abundant Life catalogue:) Cress, Curled or Land (Lepidium sativum) pungent, peppery, sow spring or fall. Self sows readily, winter hardy green pre 1855. Cress, Persian Broadleaf, (L.sativum) large leaves w/frilled edge, easy to grow, reaches 8-10", rare Cress, True Water (Nasturtium officianale) press or scatter seed in mud on banks of slow moving waters, early spring or autumn. Valuable since roman times, 1750. When I lived in the catskill mountains, there was cress on our property where the stream that ran through the property rushed to meet the pond. It came up surprisingly early in the season, considering how cold it was. And lasted a good while, if we didnt rush to eat it all! Added it to the violets, dandelion, and chickweed salads...never did try raw nettles though! Best, Jane bruce ritchie on 03/20/99 01:49:03 PM Please respond to bdnow@envirolink.org To: bdnow@envirolink.org cc: Subject: Re: Spring Equinox Parker (or whomever may know), In your equinox comments you've mentioned watercress (which i've heard is really full of nutrients). Watercress is Nasturtium Officianalis. Here's my query. Around here in Charlottesville va they have land cress or 'creesy greens' as the older black folks call it. Can you tell me what the difference is between the two either with the latin name, characteristics, or even (especially) the nutrients? Watercress here is around a dollar for 3 ounces, and travels some distance, landcress is grown locallly and 69 cents to a doollar a pound. What about the growning season/range of watercress? Anyone with specifics please chime in! Bruce Ritchie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 14:10:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19615 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:10:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA06228; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:00:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05926 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:57:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5342 invoked from network); 22 Mar 1999 12:00:12 -0700 Received: from ts2-29.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.180) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 1999 12:00:12 -0700 Message-ID: <36F69342.C1CA92DB@cyberhighway.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:00:19 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Moon Dancing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Math book ads/'''' References: <36F6771D.3266@cwcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 316 Tony, Misplaced apostrophes used to be a pet peeve of mine, but they've become part of the landscape--just drive through any town and read the signs. Read your email. Read advertisements. I've even seen it (as well as atrocious spelling) on notes home from school in the years we weren't home schooling. Good editors (or editor's, as common usage would have it) all over the country are holding out, but I often wonder how long it will be before we see it in book's and magazine's! With self-publishing becoming an increasing segment of our body of literature, it's only a matter of time. English is a living language, and subject to change with the times. To me, it's like the sabbath, there to serve the people and not the other way around. But my early training under good teachers won't leave me, even if the rest of the world doesn't believe, as I did, that what they taught came as Truth from On High! Pam Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > > Of course, a minor point in all this is that the Lands' End brand (? > consciously) misplaces the apostrophe, thus teaching bad English rather > than good maths... Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 14:35:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20164 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:35:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09856; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:24:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mashie.force9.net (relay6.force9.net [195.166.128.30]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09518 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:22:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903221922.OAA09518@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 23700 invoked from network); 22 Mar 1999 19:26:14 -0000 Received: from coors.free-online.net (212.56.108.80) by relay6.force9.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 1999 19:26:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 3677 invoked from network); 22 Mar 1999 18:48:56 -0000 Received: from 55.hiper04.access.free-online.net (HELO ?212.56.116.55?) (212.56.116.55) by coors.free-online.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 1999 18:48:56 -0000 Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Mon, 22 Mar 99 18:58:00 +0000 x-sender: elementalsols@mail.free-online.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Mark Moodie To: "BD list Postings" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 317 Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote;- >Hi Mark & Christine, > >I'm a bit perplexed by both of your remarks, especially as to how this >works exactly as you mean it with the GMO thread and/or bd context...could >you both expand a bit more on this please? Thanks... > >seeking illumination, >Jane Sherry I was referring to the excitement amongst some Anthros about the year 1998 being another peak of activity of the 666 beast - 3 times 666. This two horned or binary/digital fellow is well described in 'From Gondishapur to Silicon Valley' and my reference to computers follows that book. The GM debate can, from one perspective, be seen as the working of the same mentality or spirit. The threefold working of plant between heaven and earth is reduced to a simple equation of DNA and NPK - the right DNA and enough NPK and we can work wonders - is the simplified message coming from genetic technology. The plant as such is a miasm in the minds of those who haven't let go of the concept of 'organism' as a primary entitiy and has no role in understanding the realities of agriculture. I understand BD, as outlined by Steiner, to have a very different 'weltanschauung' or paradigm. Mark Moodie mark.es@aecb.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 14:39:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19615 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:10:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA06228; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:00:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05926 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:57:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5342 invoked from network); 22 Mar 1999 12:00:12 -0700 Received: from ts2-29.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.180) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 1999 12:00:12 -0700 Message-ID: <36F69342.C1CA92DB@cyberhighway.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:00:19 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Moon Dancing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Math book ads/'''' References: <36F6771D.3266@cwcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 318 Tony, Misplaced apostrophes used to be a pet peeve of mine, but they've become part of the landscape--just drive through any town and read the signs. Read your email. Read advertisements. I've even seen it (as well as atrocious spelling) on notes home from school in the years we weren't home schooling. Good editors (or editor's, as common usage would have it) all over the country are holding out, but I often wonder how long it will be before we see it in book's and magazine's! With self-publishing becoming an increasing segment of our body of literature, it's only a matter of time. English is a living language, and subject to change with the times. To me, it's like the sabbath, there to serve the people and not the other way around. But my early training under good teachers won't leave me, even if the rest of the world doesn't believe, as I did, that what they taught came as Truth from On High! Pam Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > > Of course, a minor point in all this is that the Lands' End brand (? > consciously) misplaces the apostrophe, thus teaching bad English rather > than good maths... Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 14:49:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20527 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:49:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12799; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:38:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12528 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:37:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d155.infoserve.net [199.175.157.155]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA07539 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:43:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004d01be749b$e388d160$909dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:39:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 319 Dear Mark, Christine et al., I could add one thing for food for thought. It has been argued among many that there was no 0 years. Therefore, 3 X 888 from year 1 is NOT 1998 but, 1999. This year!! This year we have the Big Cross on Aug. 11, in conjunction with a solar eclipse. What better way to hide, perhaps, says Ahriman, behind that deception, as well as the 1999 vx 1998?! Michael -----Original Message----- From: Mark Moodie To: BD list Postings Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 11:30 AM Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives >Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote;- > >>Hi Mark & Christine, >> >>I'm a bit perplexed by both of your remarks, especially as to how this >>works exactly as you mean it with the GMO thread and/or bd context...could >>you both expand a bit more on this please? Thanks... >> >>seeking illumination, >>Jane Sherry > >I was referring to the excitement amongst some Anthros about the year >1998 being another peak of activity of the 666 beast - 3 times 666. This >two horned or binary/digital fellow is well described in 'From >Gondishapur to Silicon Valley' and my reference to computers follows that >book. > >The GM debate can, from one perspective, be seen as the working of the >same mentality or spirit. The threefold working of plant between heaven >and earth is reduced to a simple equation of DNA and NPK - the right DNA >and enough NPK and we can work wonders - is the simplified message coming >from genetic technology. The plant as such is a miasm in the minds of >those who haven't let go of the concept of 'organism' as a primary >entitiy and has no role in understanding the realities of agriculture. I >understand BD, as outlined by Steiner, to have a very different >'weltanschauung' or paradigm. > > >Mark Moodie >mark.es@aecb.net > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 14:50:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20559 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:50:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA13090; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:39:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12547 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:37:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d155.infoserve.net [199.175.157.155]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA07542 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:43:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004e01be749b$e70a08e0$909dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: OFF: Math book ads/'''' Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:40:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 320 here, here! I'm a stickler for punctuation and pronounciation due to some of my teachers as well. M. -----Original Message----- From: Pam DeTray To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 11:05 AM Subject: Re: OFF: Math book ads/'''' >Tony, > >Misplaced apostrophes used to be a pet peeve of mine, but they've become >part of the landscape--just drive through any town and read the signs. >Read your email. Read advertisements. I've even seen it (as well as >atrocious spelling) on notes home from school in the years we weren't >home schooling. > >Good editors (or editor's, as common usage would have it) all over the >country are holding out, but I often wonder how long it will be before >we see it in book's and magazine's! With self-publishing becoming an >increasing segment of our body of literature, it's only a matter of time. > >English is a living language, and subject to change with the times. To >me, it's like the sabbath, there to serve the people and not the other >way around. But my early training under good teachers won't leave me, >even if the rest of the world doesn't believe, as I did, that what they >taught came as Truth from On High! > >Pam > >Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: >> >> Of course, a minor point in all this is that the Lands' End brand (? >> consciously) misplaces the apostrophe, thus teaching bad English rather >> than good maths... Tony N-S. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 17:57:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24747 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:57:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA13258; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:45:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.hawaii.rr.com (smtp2.hawaii.rr.com [204.210.97.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13057 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:43:52 -0500 (EST) Received: apparently from phyl.hawaii.rr.com - 24.94.65.129 by smtp2.hawaii.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:48:13 -1000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990322113726.00c3d100@pop-server> X-Sender: pdwyer@pop-server X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:46:17 -1000 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Phyl Dwyer Subject: RE: Calf rearing w/out the mamma In-Reply-To: <01BE6F69.EF700DE0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 321 March 22, 1999 - Hawaii Dear BD Friends, Here's an update on our dear little calf, Monique (little Mo). Thanks Martha, Hugh, Ferdinand, and Ian for your suggestions. Background ----------------- She has just hit eight weeks old (born 1/19/99). She came to us from a commercial dairy in desperate shape. She was pulled from her mother at birth, caged and bucket fed. She did not take to this well and was failing. She had scours and was just skin and bones, but still had a spark in her eye and licked and sucked fingers, etc. Her mother is a Holstein, papa is, what they call around here, poi beef (mixed) - perhaps Semmental, Charolais, and/or Brangus. She has a beautiful deer-like brown/gray color with knappy hair, white on her forehead, tail tip, two hind feet, and some on her belly. Feeding ------------ To slow up the runs and get something into her we started hand nursing her by bottle (1 quart every 4 hours, at 102 degrees F) with a commercial powdered milk substitute which is mostly milk based, but includes soy and various "additives". We usually make her walk about before and after eating and make her really work at sucking so her saliva gets moving good. We have asked around at some of the dairies for whole milk, but so far have only been offered mastitis milk full of penecillin, etc. We have opted for the powdered crap instead, and LOTS of positive good vibe love/sustenance "prayers". Her shit is much better now being the consistancy of a butterscotch pudding and smelling much more like shit should - shitty. We continue to hand bottle feed her and are now feeding 2 quarts (the whole bottle) each feeding (2.5 gallons per 5 feedings over 24 hours). She sucks well and has started to fill in a bit. You can no longer see every rib, but she has a long way to go. We also put an alfalfa molasas meal out for her which she gives a couple licks at every now and then. She occasionally checks out the water bucket, but doesn't seem to really drink much. She noses around in the grass every so gingerly and even sometimes manages to get a blade in her mouth to gum it, but rarely manages to actually eat it. Care ------- I wash her hind legs and okole (anus) at least every morning, followed with a brushing from head to tail. She get lots of rubbing and carressing during most nursings. Her "home" is a fenced in stall between two horses. During the day she can come and go between the paddock and her stall at will, although the horses are usually put out in other areas so she is often alone. She mostly "hibernates" if left alone. Most of her exploration and mock grazing only happens if I'm around, especially after her morning feeding followed by charming frolicking. We put a few drops each of essential oils: self heal (for general healing), chamomile (for digestion), and primrose (for estrangement from mother) twice a day in her milk. We also have started to give her homeopathic Thuja (30x) to help her bodies recover their own wisdom after commercial care and innoculants, etc. Additional Problems ----------------------------- She has an increasingly harsh skin condition - mange and/or ring worm which needs attention. If any one has suggestion PLEASE pass them along. Also, we would surely appreciate if anyone knows good sources for organic milk substitute, feed, suppliments, medications, info, etc. Thanks so much, Phyl =================================================== Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address =================================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 18:17:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25036 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:17:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16217; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:06:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.hurontel.on.ca (mail.hurontel.on.ca [205.206.182.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15885 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERLINFR (clifford-179.wcl.on.ca [216.46.132.179]) by mail.hurontel.on.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA06839 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:17:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:17:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903222317.SAA06839@mail.hurontel.on.ca> X-Sender: merlinvf@mail.wcl.on.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: BDnow@envirolink.org From: Joe Von Frankenberg Subject: BD-Dairyfarm for sale!! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 322 Hello This 200acre dairyfarm has been biodyn,operated since 1988,right after we immigrated from swizerland.We established a healthy and succsessfull 40cowheard (with names and all the TLC you can imagine.)Those cows even had real HORNES!! But.. there is always a but isn`t it so? My own health made an end to all of this beauty,and since we were unable to find some realtime partners the cows and quota had to be sold. Now in over 30 jears since I started bdfarming,it has caught on pretty well in peoples minds,it seams quit "chik" to have some organic milk for the pets and kids.(That is if you can get the kids to actually eat that stuff instead of chips) But "where have all the cowboys gone?"Is there someone out there that actually wants to DO this kind of work? And while I`m at it already,do we really need more lectures on how to farm biodynamics? Or is all this lecturing just another excuse for not having to do the legwork? Anyway now we are getting to the point where selling seams the only option and we know, that this farm is worthwhile saving for BDfarming! And yes it kosts money to buy a dairifarm in ontario,but not all people interestet in biodynamics are poor? To keep it short while I`m boiling is not easy! Good advice could be of help,good action could solve! J.v.Frankenberg Joe von Frankenberg rr1 Elmwood N0G 1S0 ONTARIO CA From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 18:38:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25372 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:38:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA19495; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:27:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.hawaii.rr.com (smtp2.hawaii.rr.com [204.210.97.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA19359 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:27:02 -0500 (EST) Received: apparently from phyl.hawaii.rr.com - 24.94.65.129 by smtp2.hawaii.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:31:25 -1000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990322132919.00ac5e70@pop-server> X-Sender: pdwyer@pop-server X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:29:37 -1000 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Phyl Dwyer Subject: Fwd: Calf rearing w/out the mamma - Little Mo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 323 >From: "Julie M." >To: >Subject: Little Mo >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:31:51 -0600 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 > >Congratulations, Dad!! > >From one who has been called "The Grand Mo" (I'd explain, but its too silly) >I thought I had to try to offer some advice about your calf. Is this calf >having any diarrhea at all? Usually this is the first sign of real trouble, >and if not dealt with immediately, you will lose her. There are electrolyte >mixes for calves, colostrum replacements, etc. but if she IS scouring, you >will want to stick with clear fluids...I like to add some apple cider >vinegar & a tad of honey to a bottle of warm water for a calf that is ill. >It will work if you get it in her early enough. Also, frequent feedings of >clear fluids. Seems to me like calves nurse throughout the day...when left >with mama. It is when they are taken from her & fed 2ce a day, 1/2 gallon of >milk, that they start to have trouble. When I have a sick calf, I will give >her much less milk, but more clear fluids & feed 3-4 times a day. Even >adding a noontime feeding of plain old water will help a healthy calf fare >better (they won't drink it cold tho') I've read that they MUST have lots >of "sucking" action, which produces lots of saliva, in order to properly >digest this milk, so if she's strong enough, make sure the bottle nipple >opening is small. (Calves who are nursing mom really slobber while feeding!) > >If you cannot find a local farmer to buy "waste milk" from, perhaps someone >with goats could sell you milk for her? Often farmers will use yogurt to >keep the calf's gut full of good bacteria. I've added 7-Stars yogurt to a >(big 5-gal) bucket of calf milk & it made me feel like I was adding that >good BD vibe to the milk...carried to it via the cultures. It is thicker of >course, so you might need to widen the nipple opening, but seems to work >wonders. > >What kind of calf is this, Phyl? Is she a Holstein, a Jersey? Are there lots >of dairy farms in Hawaii? BEST of luck, really, they are such wonderful >creatures:-) > >Love Julie Thanks for the tips Julie (The Grand Mo?!). Phyl pdwyer@hawaii.rr.com =================================================== Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address =================================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 19:03:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA25817 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:03:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA23175; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:51:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.hawaii.rr.com (smtp2.hawaii.rr.com [204.210.97.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22892 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:50:07 -0500 (EST) Received: apparently from phyl.hawaii.rr.com - 24.94.65.129 by smtp2.hawaii.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:54:31 -1000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990322134704.00c4d710@pop-server> X-Sender: pdwyer@pop-server X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:52:44 -1000 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Phyl Dwyer Subject: RE: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 324 Dear Friends, I misstated the "supplements" we are giving to Monique. They are actually flower essences, not essential oils. And it is not primrose we are giving her, but mariposa lily to help her in her new home and comfort her from being estranged from her mother. Phyl =================================================== Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address =================================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 00:15:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA01074 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:15:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA06677; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:02:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03535 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.130] ("port 2049"@[148.233.186.130]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F9000C7OVB3T8@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:43:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:45:49 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: BD-Dairyfarm for sale!! In-reply-to: <199903222317.SAA06839@mail.hurontel.on.ca> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 325 >Hello >This 200acre dairyfarm has been biodyn,operated since 1988,right after we >immigrated from swizerland.We established a healthy and succsessfull >40cowheard (with names and all the TLC you can imagine.)Those cows even had >real HORNES!! >But.. there is always a but isn`t it so? My own health made an end to all of >this beauty,and since we were unable to find some realtime partners the cows >and quota had to be sold. >Now in over 30 jears since I started bdfarming,it has caught on pretty well >in peoples minds,it seams quit "chik" to have some organic milk for the pets >and kids.(That is if you can get the kids to actually eat that stuff instead >of chips) >But "where have all the cowboys gone?"Is there someone out there that >actually wants to >DO this kind of work? >And while I`m at it already,do we really need more lectures on how to farm >biodynamics? >Or is all this lecturing just another excuse for not having to do the legwork? >Anyway now we are getting to the point where selling seams the only option >and we know, >that this farm is worthwhile saving for BDfarming! >And yes it kosts money to buy a dairifarm in ontario,but not all people >interestet in >biodynamics are poor? To keep it short while I`m boiling is not easy! >Good advice could be of help,good action could solve! >J.v.Frankenberg >Joe von Frankenberg >rr1 Elmwood >N0G 1S0 ONTARIO CA Hi Joe: I am not sure I understood your posting. Do you want to sell your farm ?, How much are you asking for it and what assets are part of the deal ? If you need a partner, what do you want from her/him in terms of capital, work and experience. Regards Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 01:34:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA01902 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:34:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA14122; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:21:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA13928 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:19:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from slip202-135-86-136.ak.nz.ibm.net (slip202-135-86-136.ak.nz.ibm.net [202.135.86.136]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA50546 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:21:57 GMT Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:21:57 GMT Message-Id: <199903230621.GAA50546@out4.ibm.net> X-Sender: lblair@pop03.ca.us.ibm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Lynton Blair Subject: RE: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 326 Hi Phyl, >Here's an update on our dear little calf, Monique (little Mo). >Additional Problems >----------------------------- >She has an increasingly harsh skin condition - mange and/or ring worm which >needs attention. If any one has suggestion PLEASE pass them along. I am new to the BDnow list, and will probably lurk awhile longer before properly introducing myself. I have recently become interested in Colloidal Silver, and it is reputed to be good against the egg-stages of parasites, and the pure form is known to be harmless. There are systems available to make your own (since it costs quite a bit to buy preparations). Just a thought. Lynton Blair From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 02:07:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA02442 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 02:07:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA16495; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:55:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA16333 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:53:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0212.direct.ca ([204.244.83.28] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10PL6D-0005NT-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:55:41 -0800 Message-ID: <36F73AB6.12183D6@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:54:46 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE BDNOW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 327 UNSUBSCRIBE BDNOW -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 04:05:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA03197 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 04:05:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA24724; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 03:47:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA24483 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 03:44:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 958 invoked from network); 23 Mar 1999 01:46:54 -0700 Received: from ts2-16.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.167) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 1999 01:46:54 -0700 Message-ID: <36F75506.D47B6DEE@cyberhighway.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:47:19 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Moon Dancing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Study: Horsetail info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 328 I did a small study of equisetum this evening, and this is what I turned up. SFRA 21,39, 60, 128-129 (relieving soil of excessive lunar force), 233 I'm finding, on my study of the Ag Course, in addition to trying to just read through it in a linear fashion, that reading the table of contents is helpful, if you have the Creeger-Gardner translation. I can read the subheads as an introduction to a chapter, and as a review to see how much I remember and grok after I've read. Also, I use the index to follow a subject all through the lectures. I don't always quite understand where RS is coming from yet, but I'm getting there, very, very slowly. Making and using 508 (horsetail tea)-- Hugh Lovel, A Biodynamic Farm 114, 128 Wolf Storl, Culture and Horticulture, 155,348 Ehrenfried E. Pfeiffer, Weeds and What They Tell, 91-94 Web sites Photos "The exact identification of these species is still unknown, but tentatively assumed to belong into this group." http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/plants/pteridophyta/sphenopsida/equisetaceae/equisetum/index.html Equisetum arvense L. Field Horsetail, Common Horsetail EQUISETACEAE Click here to view trophophore. Bangham Road Woods, Jackson County, MI Photo by Dan Skean, April 1992 Closeup. http://www.albion.edu/fac/biol/skean/equiarpg.htm This page describes properties, phytochemicals, and uses of horsetail, equisetum arvense. Also a silhouette illustration. http://www.rain-tree.com/horsetail.htm Horsetails http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/h/hortai39.html Equisetum: The Search for a Polycrest http://www.lyghtforce.com/HomeopathyOnline/Issue4/bohle.htm The Herb Garden The Joy of Growing and Using Herbs Horsetail and House Leeks by Rachel McLeod "I first read about this remedy in an article about a farmer who had had great success with injuries on the farm – to a calf, a filly and herself! I can add our own experience to that, as horsetail helped the successful and fast healing of a widespread skin rash on my German shepherd." http://www.life.ca/nl/58/herbs.html Short blurb and nice green photos http://www.csubak.edu/fact/Horsetail.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 07:35:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA04348 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA06860; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:20:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA06672 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:18:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.167] (pm3shep2-163-68.intrepid.net [209.190.163.68]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00980 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:21:08 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:22:51 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: DEVAS cannot move away......! by Ferdinand Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 329 Jane Sherry quoted me as saying: I remember when Ferdinand talked about how the Devas are retreating from the earth. I felt sad and actually felt also that this can NOT be entirely true. Recently I had the good fortune to speak with a young man who grew up on a farm, who quite naturally has & does commune and communicate with nature spirits. He said to me that everyone has Deva's but they usually don't "have the slightest clue" and "don't work with them at all". It was this comment that inspired (yes, the spirit moved me!) comments about 'my' need to hear more about these things from the more experienced farmers on this list. It was not meant as a criticism, although I am sure now, it came out that way. May I correct this quote: I said that Dr. Steiner gave a lecture on elemental beings and indicated that they had started (in about 1911) to move towards the Northern Countries of Europe such as Finland, Sweden, Norway etc. Devas are not moving away, (and should I have said that they do so, it is an error or an error in my printing - but I definitely did not mean a moving away of the devas) Devas are NOT moving like elemental beings. The devas can be compared with the 'soul' of a tree (being), the soul of a group of trees. It is the inner organ (somewhat individualized) that can 'act' like an 'inner organ' of a plant. This inner organ connects with the higher being of the overall plant. Like our ear is connected to our brain and then to our whole being and from thereon to our inner being. Jane, I really feel a bit concerned that I am being quoted as having said this about Devas. Let me know when and where. I hope that I have corrected this misunderstanding with the above. It would be the same as if our ear(s) would have moved away from us. Perhaps, it may be possible, but I really don't think so. I have signed off from BDNOW and am working throught he last posts. This one caught me and I wanted to immediately correct it. May I ask Allan Balliett to pass it on to the list. Kind regards Ferdinand -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 07:39:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA04382 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:39:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA07152; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:23:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.fastinternet.net.au (root@ns.fastinternet.net.au [203.37.167.131]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA07008 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from rsdwat (cwn135-201.fastinternet.net.au [203.37.172.201]) by ns.fastinternet.net.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA29861 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:33:46 +1000 X-Authentication-Warning: ns.fastinternet.net.au: Host cwn135-201.fastinternet.net.au [203.37.172.201] claimed to be rsdwat Message-ID: <000301be7529$c8cc6560$c9ac25cb@rsdwat> From: "sally & robert watson" To: Subject: Re: Spirit on the List Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:29:36 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 330 -----Original Message----- From: Hugh Lovel To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 2:36 Subject: OFF: Re: Spirit on the List >Jane Sherry writes: > > >>Dear Friends on Bd-Now, >> >>In all this discussion of Monsanto and even of building up the soils, there >>has been comparatively little talk of the spiritual component of this work >>that is biodynamics. Once the BD principles start to work for you.i.e your farm is productive without the addition of NPK or organic substitutes you have to start thinking -what is happening? All of your materialistic mechanical theories have to be questioned and perhaps abandoned. How can such a small amount of prepared 500 create such fertility , for year after year . What I am trying to say is that the spiritual side of biodynamics isn't something you can talk about intellectually , it's rather something that you experience - it grows on you. While you do not know how it works you know it does work and in this there is release and awe. Robert Watson From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 08:04:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA04627 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:04:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA08986; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:47:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA08867 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.167] (pm3shep2-163-68.intrepid.net [209.190.163.68]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA05037 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:48:44 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F75506.D47B6DEE@cyberhighway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:51:09 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id HAA08869 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 331 We commonly refer to equisetum as 'horsetail.' I've always been at a loss to understand this common name. To me, the two states of equisetum appear to be 'pop grass' or a 'pinetree' (shave grass). Long, slender, essentially appendage free or looking like a 'bottle brush,' 'snake grass' always appears to have more 'obvious' silca in it's structure, and I assume it is what is also known at 'scouring rush' because it's ridgid serrations help get the gunk off from camp pots. I've also always assumed that it is dried 'snake grass' that one would use to 'bank' a compost pile. But looking through a bag of 508 from JPI the other day, it really appeared to me that it was all 'shave grass,' or from the 'bottle brush' state of equisetum. can anyone clear this up for me? Thanks -Allan Balliett >I did a small study of equisetum this evening, and this is what I turned up. > >SFRA >21,39, 60, 128-129 (relieving soil of excessive lunar force), 233 >I'm finding, on my study of the Ag Course, in addition to trying to just >read through it in a linear fashion, that reading the table of contents >is helpful, if you have the Creeger-Gardner translation. I can read the >subheads as an introduction to a chapter, and as a review to see how >much I remember and grok after I've read. >Also, I use the index to follow a subject all through the lectures. I >don't always quite understand where RS is coming from yet, but I'm >getting there, very, very slowly. > > >Making and using 508 (horsetail tea)-- Hugh Lovel, A Biodynamic Farm >114, 128 > Wolf Storl, Culture and >Horticulture, 155,348 >Ehrenfried E. Pfeiffer, Weeds and What They Tell, 91-94 > > >Web sites > >Photos >"The exact identification of these species is still unknown, but >tentatively assumed to belong into this group." >http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/plants/pteridophyta/sphenopsida/equisetace >ae/equisetum/index.html > >Equisetum arvense L. >Field Horsetail, Common Horsetail >EQUISETACEAE >Click here to view trophophore. >Bangham Road Woods, Jackson County, MI >Photo by Dan Skean, April 1992 Closeup. >http://www.albion.edu/fac/biol/skean/equiarpg.htm > > >This page describes properties, phytochemicals, and uses of horsetail, >equisetum arvense. Also a silhouette illustration. >http://www.rain-tree.com/horsetail.htm > >Horsetails >http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/h/hortai39.html >Equisetum: The Search for a Polycrest >http://www.lyghtforce.com/HomeopathyOnline/Issue4/bohle.htm > >The Herb Garden >The Joy of Growing and Using Herbs >Horsetail and House Leeks >by Rachel McLeod >"I first read about this remedy in an article about a farmer who had had >great success with injuries on the farm – to a calf, a filly and >herself! I can add our own experience to that, as horsetail helped the >successful and fast healing of a widespread skin rash on my German shepherd." >http://www.life.ca/nl/58/herbs.html > >Short blurb and nice green photos >http://www.csubak.edu/fact/Horsetail.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 08:12:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA04708 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:12:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA09699; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:56:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA09546 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:54:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33350-674>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:56:42 -0400 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:56:42 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: RE: Calf rearing w/out the mamma In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990322113726.00c3d100@pop-server> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 332 Hi Phyl; On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, you wrote: > March 22, 1999 - Hawaii > > Dear BD Friends, > > Here's an update on our dear little calf, Monique (little Mo) > We put a few drops each of essential oils: self heal (for general healing), > chamomile (for digestion), and primrose (for estrangement from mother) > twice a day in her milk. We also have started to give her homeopathic Thuja > (30x) to help her bodies recover their own wisdom after commercial care and > innoculants, etc. > My first feeling is: Phyl..are you able to dowse or use kinesiology?? You could then ask her, what she would like at this moment, what she needs for her diet and supplements.. follow her progress and make any changes daily... I am so hoping you can, then you would be able to tell us what she would like, and what would help her grow and feel good. Another consideration is Nux vomica, a most often used remedy establish equilibrum after past medications (even herbs), changes in environment, foods, etc. When you read about Nux in the Materia Medica,a keynote is stomach disturbances..as the body begins to detox toxic by-products out of the system, Nux is often used to help the digestive tract cope with the irritation caused as the by-products pass through. > Additional Problems > ----------------------------- > She has an increasingly harsh skin condition - mange and/or ring worm which > needs attention. If any one has suggestion PLEASE pass them along. Mo may go through times when her coat may become rough, harsh, dry, skin flakes off, etc.. The past toxins have to come out and the epidermis is just one avenue, the respiratory system, digestive tract, urinary system all are other avenues.. At times she may give off odors..and any homeopathic vet would say good...good..what did they smell like. In the past we had posts on ringworm in cattle..It only is apparent on animals which are weakened and not healthy... Tree tea oil was mentioned as an external applicant...I hesitate to recommend anything as Mo's system could be overwhelmed by doing too much at once... She could tell you exactly what would be applicable for her for the ringworm/ mange.. > Also, we would surely appreciate if anyone knows good sources for organic > milk substitute, feed, suppliments, medications, info, etc. > Until she is ready to get off the milk replacer, good stomach flora should be encouraged, perhaps digestive enzymes, bacteria. I do so hope you can ask Mo..what she thinks of her new home and what she would like for you to do for her.. I have the feeling that her presence is doing so much for you... Say hello to her from the entire BDNOW list.. --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia email: av204@chebucto.ns.ca From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 11:30:55 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25310 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:30:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11750; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:29:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11689 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:29:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from digisys.net (modem132.digisys.net [205.138.110.181]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18040; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:29:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36F7C1E7.2D473651@digisys.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:31:35 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L , "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Intern looking for work References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1204 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 333 I just received the following letter from a young person looking for farm work. "I am writing to you because I'm looking for a farm to work at cultivating herbs, vegetables, fruits, and grains in the Northwest. I've worked on several organic farms in the past including a permaculture, organic garden near Spokane, Washington at the Bear Tribe. I completed an apprenticeship in herbal medicine with Rosemary Gladstar last fall and am looking for more experience cultivating herbs in particular, though all aspects of food cultivation interest me. I'm hoping to eventually buy land with some friends where we can raise herbs, fruits, vegetables and grains. I'm 31 years old at the moment, in good physical shape from running and cutting lots of firewood, and currently work part-time restoring erosion damage done by logging to a friend of mine's land. I have also taught wilderness survival skill classes and done landscaping work in the Ithacea, New York area. Sincerely, Roland Von derMuhl 84 Weston Rd. Box 107A Berkshire, NY 13736 PS: I also completed a four month internship in biodynamic/organic gardening at Host Valley Educational Center in Dexter, Oregon from March 1993 to July, 1994." From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 11:42:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08712 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:42:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13566; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:31:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12772 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:26:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem132.digisys.net [205.138.110.181]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18040; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:29:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36F7C1E7.2D473651@digisys.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:31:35 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L , "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Intern looking for work References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 334 I just received the following letter from a young person looking for farm work. "I am writing to you because I'm looking for a farm to work at cultivating herbs, vegetables, fruits, and grains in the Northwest. I've worked on several organic farms in the past including a permaculture, organic garden near Spokane, Washington at the Bear Tribe. I completed an apprenticeship in herbal medicine with Rosemary Gladstar last fall and am looking for more experience cultivating herbs in particular, though all aspects of food cultivation interest me. I'm hoping to eventually buy land with some friends where we can raise herbs, fruits, vegetables and grains. I'm 31 years old at the moment, in good physical shape from running and cutting lots of firewood, and currently work part-time restoring erosion damage done by logging to a friend of mine's land. I have also taught wilderness survival skill classes and done landscaping work in the Ithacea, New York area. Sincerely, Roland Von derMuhl 84 Weston Rd. Box 107A Berkshire, NY 13736 PS: I also completed a four month internship in biodynamic/organic gardening at Host Valley Educational Center in Dexter, Oregon from March 1993 to July, 1994." From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 11:42:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08720 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:42:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13728; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:31:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12910 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:27:32 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hMZJa07851 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:29:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <201e9e17.36f7c17a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:29:46 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 335 In a message dated 99-03-22 14:45:38 EST, you write: << 1999. This year!! This year we have the Big Cross on Aug. 11, in conjunction with a solar eclipse. What better way to hide, perhaps, says Ahriman, behind that deception, as well as the 1999 vx 1998?! >> Precisely. That is the cross (ing), the visible "point" in the sky within the continuum. This cross looks like a Templar Cross too. I don't have any real verification for this, but felt that the space from this point backwards to the harmonic convergence and the same amount forward is of particular intensity. Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 11:43:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08753 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:43:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13960; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:32:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from yancey.main.nc.us (yancey.main.nc.us [208.133.41.194]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13269 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:29:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from donnas (ppp14.yancey.main.nc.us [208.133.41.208]) by yancey.main.nc.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18244 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:33:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01be7549$97eb5f80$d02985d0@donnas> From: "donnas" To: Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:22:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 336 Pam, Do you know of a source for plants for equisetum arvense. I have seen other equisetum (hymale) sold for pondscaping....... but not even Richters offers arvense as a live plant.....only as dried herb. donaterra From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 11:59:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA09232 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:59:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17115; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:48:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from connect1.reach.net (root@connect1.reach.net [204.50.58.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16841 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:47:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.50.58.70] (A39.reach.net [204.50.58.70]) by connect1.reach.net (8.9.1-wasp/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA18996 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:49:46 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:49:46 -0500 X-Sender: ghein@mail.reach.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: ghein@reach.net (Geoff Heinricks) Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 337 >Pam, >Do you know of a source for plants for equisetum arvense. > >I have seen other equisetum (hymale) sold for pondscaping....... but not >even Richters offers arvense as a live plant.....only as dried herb. >donaterra Thanks for starting this thread on Horsetail, Pam. Where can one get seeds or plants, then? I noticed the Richter's lapse. I've got a lot of nettle seedlings growing well. So...how does one get hold of horsetail, other than the dried prep material? Geoff Heinricks Prince Edward Co., Ontario From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 12:05:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09364 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:05:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18297; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:54:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17941 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:53:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7402 invoked from network); 23 Mar 1999 09:56:04 -0700 Received: from ts2-06.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.157) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 1999 09:56:04 -0700 Message-ID: <36F7C7AC.D556BC70@cyberhighway.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:56:14 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Moon Dancing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Re: Spirit on the List References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 338 Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Our culture values leisure only as an excuse to get them to consume more > useless, souless goods for the sake of the ever increasing market growth. > So, I think it's forums like this one that need to keep a balanced approach > to biodynamics, by not just offering material solutions but to be > emboldened to speak directly to the soul (more frequently than many members > already do). In spite of what you may perceive as unjust criticism, it has > been my experience on this list, that has very much provided much food for > thought, for practical application as well as for my spirit! Hey, I just > want to hear more about Devas! Jane, Remember last year, when you stirred preps for the first time? You couldn't use it all on your houseplants, and you and Curtis went outside your apartment building and gave a little part of NYC some BD. I'm sure the deva there noticed. I'm seeing a correlation here. Much "normal" practice of faith involves active participation--attending worship services, doing good works, and uttering prayers, often of the "Please God, do this" variety. With this kind of setup, in spite of tremendous faith and belief, it's easy for ego to take over the show. What's the point? Put the same person in a situation of listening to the Being he/she is worshipping. This is a major leap for many people, but it can lead to integration of the ego into service of the Being. In other words, the person can then walk in Spirit, and more easily fit into the overall flow. (It doesn't happen with one or two sessions, and I do not claim to be fully actualized in this. Figuring out if a desired action is from my ego or inspired is a constant dilemma for me, and I'm starting to understand more fully how eating BD food will help me in this. But I do notice a difference when I allow regular time for meditation, and so do others.) I think it's the same thing with the land we care for. Instead of just looking at it and deciding to do this or that (ego-centered), we need to ask it what it requires from us, then stop and listen. Not just once, for a grand plan, but on a constant basis. (To me, dowsing is a manifesting of this listening activity, and I appreciate Joan's frequent reminders to dowse for answers.) When you stirred the prep that you shared outside your apartment, you were Listening. I don't think the location that received the prep was an accident--I think that during your stirring/listening time, the deva took full advantage to help get that prep where it was needed. And I think if you continue listening, you'll continue to be led to further acts of healing. Imagine what could happen between you and the other New Yorkers practicing BD on the soil between the buildings and the pavement! Remember last year, when Ferdinand said that when we stir, we're making time? That has all kinds of ramifications that I don't feel competent to address, but I do understand that 20 minutes spent listening can be worth a week of work. There's nothing worse than putting your energy (and your back!) into a big project, only to step back later and wonder why you did it there instead of over there. That's my Virgo-rising practical take on creating time. I know it goes much, much deeper. I do believe that every time we listen and obey, the land and its spirit grow a little stronger. And that obedience opens our spirituality a little more, and makes it a little easier to hear the next time we listen. I think the fact that all of us here are open to BD, and willing to learn and practice it, speaks to a great deal of spirituality here. Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 12:08:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09435 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:08:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18872; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:57:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18587 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:56:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 8229 invoked from network); 23 Mar 1999 09:59:00 -0700 Received: from ts2-06.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.157) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 1999 09:59:00 -0700 Message-ID: <36F7C85D.22827318@cyberhighway.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:59:11 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Moon Dancing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info References: <000f01be7549$97eb5f80$d02985d0@donnas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 339 I would ask someone local that knows the native plants. Maybe ask at the extension office--some of the sites I looked at last night were to help farmers control it on their land. Pam donnas wrote: > > Pam, > Do you know of a source for plants for equisetum arvense. > > I have seen other equisetum (hymale) sold for pondscaping....... but not > even Richters offers arvense as a live plant.....only as dried herb. > donaterra From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 12:26:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09805 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:26:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA22109; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:15:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22032 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (modem-77.xcelco.on.ca [205.206.216.77]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA10333 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:16:57 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Re: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:17:09 -0800 Message-ID: <01be756a$213a3ac0$4dd8cecd@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 340 Regarding your skin condition with Little Mo. Ringworm is not a worm at all but a form of fungus that infects less than healthy skin. Mange is caused by mites and or lice. also an indication of less than ideal health. As I can see you are doing evrything right to bring little Mo to optimum health so i found some recommendations from International herbalist Juliette de Baïracli Levy Scab This word covers many disorders of the skin and may be purely mange, a form of ringworm or caused by lice infestation.; but in all cases the treatment is similar except in very cold weather, immediate clipping and washing with soapy water. Then rubbing with a solution of the following. Brew tobacco ( 1 pound) powder, flaked garlic ( four handfuls) and leaves of the wild geranium (two handfuls) brewed for six hours. also application of lemon juice for ringworm. both can be applied every few days until skin is perfectly clear. Also recommended disinfecting of stable with eggwhite and liquid lime whitewash. The practical stock doctor also makes the following recommendations. Tincture of Iodine applied once a day for 3-5 days. terpentine or kerosene also are suggested ( I'm not so sure about these) also carbolic acid and sweet oil ointment. (1:20 mixture) or sulpher ointment Hope this is a help jean From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 13:19:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12109 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:19:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA01405; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:07:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f204.hotmail.com [209.185.130.114]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA00877 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 35096 invoked by uid 0); 23 Mar 1999 18:07:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990323180705.35094.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.230.25.27 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:07:05 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.230.25.27] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: cow horns Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:07:05 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 341 Does anyone know where I can get some cow horns? I really don't want to get them from a slaughterhouse if I can find a better source. I almost had a couple, a neighbors bull died of natural causes, but he decided he wanted the skull and horns for a decoration. Lynnaea Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 13:21:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12184 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:21:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA01872; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:10:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.hurontel.on.ca (mail.hurontel.on.ca [205.206.182.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01808 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERLINFR (clifford-154.wcl.on.ca [216.46.132.154]) by mail.hurontel.on.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA18774 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:24:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:24:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903231824.NAA18774@mail.hurontel.on.ca> X-Sender: merlinvf@mail.wcl.on.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joe Von Frankenberg Subject: Re: BD-Dairyfarm for sale!! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 342 At 18:45 3/22/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Hello >>This 200acre dairyfarm has been biodyn,operated since 1988,right after we >>immigrated from swizerland.We established a healthy and succsessfull >>40cowheard (with names and all the TLC you can imagine.)Those cows even had >>real HORNES!! >>But.. there is always a but isn`t it so? My own health made an end to all of >>this beauty,and since we were unable to find some realtime partners the cows >>and quota had to be sold. >>Now in over 30 jears since I started bdfarming,it has caught on pretty well >>in peoples minds,it seams quit "chik" to have some organic milk for the pets >>and kids.(That is if you can get the kids to actually eat that stuff instead >>of chips) >>But "where have all the cowboys gone?"Is there someone out there that >>actually wants to >>DO this kind of work? >>And while I`m at it already,do we really need more lectures on how to farm >>biodynamics? >>Or is all this lecturing just another excuse for not having to do the legwork? >>Anyway now we are getting to the point where selling seams the only option >>and we know, >>that this farm is worthwhile saving for BDfarming! >>And yes it kosts money to buy a dairifarm in ontario,but not all people >>interestet in >>biodynamics are poor? To keep it short while I`m boiling is not easy! >>Good advice could be of help,good action could solve! >>J.v.Frankenberg >>Joe von Frankenberg >>rr1 Elmwood >>N0G 1S0 ONTARIO CA > >Hi Joe: > >I am not sure I understood your posting. > >Do you want to sell your farm ?, How much are you asking for it and what assets are part of the deal ? > >If you need a partner, what do you want from her/him in terms of capital, work and experience. > >Regards > > >Guillermo Romero I. >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > > >Actually the circle sun farm is lokatet in ontario canada. >I`m aware that this list is not a real estate marketplace,but we are somewhat >desperate. >Our hope is to find a buyer (or sponsor)that wants to keep this farm in >the realm of BD-farming. >There is so many possibillities that circle sun farm offers,that it really >depends on the initiative of the interestet party. >Circle Sun Farm indicates C_ommunity S_upportet F_arm!! >I`m quit willing to give more information and bio. but we don`t want to end up >discussing all the pathways and not find some active interest in this situation >Tell me your opinion >joe Joe von Frankenberg rr1 Elmwood N0G 1S0 ONTARIO CN From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 13:24:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12240 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:24:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA02470; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:13:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02072 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:11:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp325.cy-net.net [208.21.195.134]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25392 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:14:28 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7524.19BAD660@FLYLO>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:55:52 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7524.19BAD660@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: Spirit Of The Land Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:13:26 -0600 Encoding: 32 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 343 Sybil asked me in a private message if I'd go ask my garden soil what it needed when it 'took' from my hands. (RE the 'Show Of Hands' thread.) Besides giving me a horrid case of poison ivy (roots weren't all grapevines I was digging around in), it seems to miss the animals. This is in an area we had once (6+ yrs ago) fenced off for pasture hogs. Since then it's been a yard mostly, huge pecan trees, 100+ yr old grape vines, that the hogs never bothered except to enjoy the windfalls. The pecan trees used to shine from the hogs scratching their backs, now they look mossy and dull. (Maybe treehugging only works if you're naked, and watch the poison ivy!) When the llamas were fenced in my old garden area, I needed new ground and incorporated this abandoned side yard. Now it seems to enjoy the attention, but seems to still miss (yearn for) some livestock. We had let a big round bale of hay decompose under the pecan tree and the last vestige of that is totally gone now. I fluffed up the leaves and soil and could 'feel' a visible sigh of relief almost, as the crusting was scratched. As I can't run goats nor anything else in the garden, should I concentrate on using preps? and if so ,which ones? Another question for Ferdy now that he's not on-list. We set out 2 peach saplings on Valentine's Day and one has budded out already. The other is a later type and still dormant. I didn't save the post about the salve he mixes to paint the trunks but did anyone else? Should I only use it on the dormant one? manure, silica clay, and some other things. I don't think we have any clay on the property, would 'foreign matter' matter? thanks for any input on this topic. martha who is going out to apologize for taking all that poison ivy resin from the soil (grin). From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 13:30:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12434 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:30:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA03581; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:19:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03337 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:18:41 -0500 (EST) From: JHatf18942@aol.com Received: from JHatf18942@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hNFCa03706 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:21:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:21:00 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: cow poop Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 344 I seem to recall this being asked lately but perhaps I missed the answer. As I am once again in need of some quality manure for my compost I begin to hear words like dewormer, antibiotics, etc. What questions should I ask of the cow's owner about these things. Or what questions should I ask the cow. Can anyone speak to this? Thanks. Greetings from the U.P. Jeff Hatfield From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 13:37:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12517 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:37:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04892; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:26:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04114 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:22:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp325.cy-net.net [208.21.195.134]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA27026 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:25:34 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7525.A5028C80@FLYLO>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:06:55 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7525.A5028C80@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Calf rearing w/out the mamma (keroscene thread) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:06:48 -0600 Encoding: 42 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 345 on use of keroscene. Old time farmers used it a lot in wound care. The only thing it will do is coat the area, keeping it oily and moist and deter flies. Not something I'd want to use by choice, but if you're in the barn and an accident occurs, sometimes this will keep things ok till something better can be applied. It doesn't burn either (surprisingly, something that smells so nasty doesn't burn) so the animal won't react strongly to application. It will smother out the mange mite if mange and is effective against ringworm due to the same oily smothering. But it's not something I'd want on the skin for long periods. Try distilling comfrey leaves in salad oil for a better way to smother skin 'midges'. Be sure the surface is clean or comfrey will create an anaerobic condition that can be worse than the original affliction. It's the allantoin in Comfrey that works as the healer. Cooking the leaves break this (mucilige consistency) and renders it useless, so just gently warm till the oils are bright green. martha (I put comfrey oils in my goat milk soap and right now it's the only thing that is having a positive result on the poison ivy areas.) The essential oil in this soap is High John The Conqueror and it's helping because it's also from another vining pest, morning glory root. And it smells heavenly, MUCH better than keroscene! I went overboard on superfatting this batch so I can't sell it as it gets gummy (cocoa butter and olive oil), but it's a great skin soother. If her skin shows no improvement I'll be glad to send you a 'cake'. Another thought, check her temperature often. I'm unsure what normal cow temps are but goats are 102* F - 103* F. If she's been sick and spiking temperature, her hair could fall out in handfuls. You may be seeing the tail end (or beginning) of this healing process. Usually starts around the 'heat points', between rear legs, under and behind forelegs, around the eyes and nose, etc. I don't think this is the problem because the skin underneath usually looks bright pink and healthy. Take your thumbnail and scratch down the afflicted area lightly. If a red crease wells up or if she actually bleeds, it's mange mites bringing blood to the skin surface. Hope this helps! Martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 13:55:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12916 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:55:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA08453; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:44:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA08072 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:42:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9754 invoked from network); 23 Mar 1999 11:45:09 -0700 Received: from ts2-18.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.169) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 1999 11:45:09 -0700 Message-ID: <36F7E13C.4A64B3A6@cyberhighway.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:45:20 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Moon Dancing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Celtic salt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 346 Has anyone on this list used salt on their land? The gifted young man who visited and gave me a reading last week not only revealed the name of my deva. When I asked what else I could do for my land, the deva suggested it was lacking in salt and I should give it some. I was already planning to apply kelp for the sea minerals. Could this also be considered "salt"? A final question. I did a web search on Celtic salt the other night, and turned up a page on making colloidal silver, but there was no mention of Celtic salt on that page. Can anyone enlighten me here? Thanks, Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 14:33:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13776 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:33:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA15053; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA14750 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:20:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.29]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:24:31 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:22:57 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Celtic salt Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 347 the Celtic Salt is available through available from The Grain and Salt Society at 1-800-867-7258. I should warn you that if y'all think Will Brinton is expensive, you should forget about that salt, though I do advise eating it!! But in quantities to put on your land, you'd spent a fortune!! But buy some to try eating it because it feels as though it's good for you! You can taste and smell all the minerals! It's nothing like any salt I've ever used. First introduced to it through my wondrous Roxbury csa, who seem to always have a line on good stuff to eat! Best, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 14:41:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13938 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:41:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA16672; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:30:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16112 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:27:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.185] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.185]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F92003OD63XF7@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:33:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:39:51 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA16229 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 348 > >Where can one get seeds or plants, then? I noticed the Richter's lapse. >I've got a lot of nettle seedlings growing well. So...how does one get hold >of horsetail, other than the dried prep material? > >Geoff Heinricks >Prince Edward Co., Ontario Dear Geoff: The Equisetum species reproduces both sexually, throught the production of spores, and asexually throught the production of tubers and stolons. The rhizomes run to the sides of the plant, underwater or in clay like soil. Sorry no seeds here. The herb is so common in wetlands that I bet you would not have any trouble finding some wild to be transplanted to your own farm-garden. Where I live horsetail grows year round and I can always get it fresh and wild (organic) for about $ 0.25 USD per Kilo (2 pounds plus). IMHO the fresh tea works better than the dried form to make 508. For one thing, it ferments faster (if that is your prefered method for making 508) and have a better odor. I don't even bother to keep a plant in my place. If you still want to purchase a plant, try the herb nursery companies in your area, not the seed companies. Regards Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 15:10:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14530 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:10:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21420; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:58:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21060 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:56:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp325.cy-net.net [208.21.195.134]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA06219 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:59:26 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7532.AEA954A0@FLYLO>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:40:15 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7532.AEA954A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: cow poop Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:14:40 -0600 Encoding: 36 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 349 If the cows are 'highly managed', dairy cattle, feedlot beef, etc, they are going to have lots of foreign chemicals in their feed and bloodstream. But, if you can locate a rancher who just has pasture cattle, only hauls a round bale of hay out to them once or twice a week, doesn't seem to mess with them much, these are your best bet. Tell him you're making manure tea for your compost and ask if you can collect cow pats from his field. They usually will harrow these into the soil to keep growing conditions level and wouldn't mind your taking a truckload off, usually. Check around a tree grove where the herd might be apt to doze. The ground just outside the sleeping quarters is often littered with poop and urine soaked soil. Also a standing stock pond, for some reasons, cattle delight in drinking up the stagnant water while her neighbor is peeing right in the pond. The banks are often littered with droppings so the water will be rather charged in the pond also. The less 'managed' the herd, the more likely they haven't had dewormers and a sure bet they haven't had antibiotics or growth 'enhancements'. martha -----Original Message----- From: JHatf18942@aol.com [SMTP:JHatf18942@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 12:21 PM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: cow poop I seem to recall this being asked lately but perhaps I missed the answer. As I am once again in need of some quality manure for my compost I begin to hear words like dewormer, antibiotics, etc. What questions should I ask of the cow's owner about these things. Or what questions should I ask the cow. Can anyone speak to this? Thanks. Greetings from the U.P. Jeff Hatfield From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 15:28:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14901 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:28:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24645; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24394 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:15:25 -0500 (EST) From: HILAWRIGHT@aol.com Received: from HILAWRIGHT@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hYALa04832 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:17:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6bf7ea5b.36f7f6e9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:17:45 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Calf rearing w/out the mamma Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 118 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 350 What about the Bach Flower Remedies? Rescue Remedy is a wonderful all-purpose healer - shock, fright, injury, visits to the dentist (I never sit in that chair without it) You can also apply it (or the cream) to skin. A friend of mine once lit a match and the burning head snapped off and fell on his jeans. He picked it up in his fingers and burned himself. I immediately put a couple of drops of RR on his fingers (and also a drop or two on his tongue for the shock) Next day: no trace of a burn. So it may help the ringworm. The Walnut one is good for helping adjust to new circumstances and surroundings. I give houseplants a drop or two when I pot them on. Just a few drops in her milk. Good luck. May she thrive in every way. Hilary From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 16:53:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16660 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:53:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09509; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:37:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09087 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:34:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.161.38]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990323213844.FTSE5117602.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:38:44 +1200 Message-ID: <36F809F8.12DC@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:39:04 +1200 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: off travelling Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 351 I am off travelling for the coming month and so regrettably will be unsubscribing for this period. I can be contacted personally during this time on garudas@yahoo.com. cheers Glen Atkinson. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 17:01:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16968 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:01:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA22246; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:01:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22021 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:01:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from slip202-135-86-38.ak.nz.ibm.net (slip202-135-86-38.ak.nz.ibm.net [202.135.86.38]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA57676 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:03:49 GMT Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:03:49 GMT Message-Id: <199903232003.UAA57676@out4.ibm.net> X-Sender: lblair@pop03.ca.us.ibm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Lynton Blair Subject: Re: Celtic salt Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 352 Hi Pam, At 11:45 AM 3/23/99 -0700, you wrote: > I did a web search on Celtic salt the other night, and >turned up a page on making colloidal silver, but there was no mention of >Celtic salt on that page. Can anyone enlighten me here? Depending on what your search criteria were, it could have given you pages with "salt", ie without the "Celtic" part of the search. Otherwise, "nothing is perfect". BTW, a very small quantity of salt can be used when making colloidal silver - but it needs to be very pure Sodium Chloride. Supermarket salt or sea salt have many trace elements which would create poisonous Silver compounds in colloidal silver manufacture. Lynton From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 17:04:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17149 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:04:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA11776; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:52:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA11682 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:52:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-11.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.12]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id NAA05589 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:55:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990323145103.0095a850@mail.kootenay.com> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:52:12 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Subject: Spirit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 353 Robert Watson and All: Robert wrote: <> That's IT! What a happy juxtaposition of words, "release and awe..." Release from the oh-so compelling, treacherous bonds of materialism and awe...childlike wonderment that it does work... Yesterday evening with a couple of friends we did a slightly belated BD#500 (horn manure) spraying of gardens, landscape, and paddock areas here at Aurora Farm. Halfway through the process a flock of 30-some Trumpeter Swans flew over, the racket of their trumpeting contrasting with their graceful flight. Two were black. We stood there agape. Yes, we know it works...it doesn't much matter that we don't know how, as long as we're suitably grateful. Woody At 10:29 PM 3/23/99 +1000, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Hugh Lovel >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 2:36 >Subject: OFF: Re: Spirit on the List > > >>Jane Sherry writes: >> >> >>>Dear Friends on Bd-Now, >>> >>>In all this discussion of Monsanto and even of building up the soils, >there >>>has been comparatively little talk of the spiritual component of this work >>>that is biodynamics. > > >Once the BD principles start to work for you.i.e your farm is productive >without the addition of NPK or organic substitutes you have to start >thinking -what is happening? All of your materialistic mechanical theories >have to be questioned and perhaps abandoned. How can such a small amount of >prepared 500 create such fertility , for year after year . >What I am trying to say is that the spiritual side of biodynamics isn't >something you can talk about intellectually , it's rather something that you >experience - it grows on you. >While you do not know how it works you know it does work and in this there >is release and awe. > > >Robert Watson > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 17:10:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17494 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12638; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:59:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12469 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:58:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.167] (pm3shep2-163-109.intrepid.net [209.190.163.109]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16673; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:55:41 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:52:10 -0500 To: martin@seattle2000.com From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Do YOU have this problem with BD NOW? Cc: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" , Mark Moodie , Joan Macdonald , Jane Sherry , Steven McFadden , Hugh Lovel , sally & robert watson , Michael Roboz , Rambler , beanman@ix.netcom.com, Intergalactic Garage , bdnow@envirolink.org, "P. Hironimus" , "Julie M." Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 354 Dear Friends - I have attempted to make it clear to Martin that I will hand post messages for Martin if he will send them to me at igg@igg.com. In the meantime, I am not receiving messages from him at bdnow@envirolink.org. Not all problems are easily solved. It will take time to untangle this one. Cooperation and comraderie in the meantime w.b. most greatly appreciated. Thanks -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 17:14:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17801 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:14:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA26192; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:26:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25987 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:25:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.185] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.185]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F92006JY8BSH2@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:21:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:27:41 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: BD-Dairyfarm for sale!! In-reply-to: <199903231824.NAA18774@mail.hurontel.on.ca> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id PAA26017 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 355 >At 18:45 3/22/99 -0600, you wrote: >>>Hello >>>This 200acre dairyfarm has been biodyn,operated since 1988,right after we >>>immigrated from swizerland.We established a healthy and succsessfull >>>40cowheard (with names and all the TLC you can imagine.)Those cows even had >>>real HORNES!! >>>But.. there is always a but isn`t it so? My own health made an end to all of >>>this beauty,and since we were unable to find some realtime partners the cows >>>and quota had to be sold. >>>Now in over 30 jears since I started bdfarming,it has caught on pretty well >>>in peoples minds,it seams quit "chik" to have some organic milk for the pets >>>and kids.(That is if you can get the kids to actually eat that stuff instead >>>of chips) >>>But "where have all the cowboys gone?"Is there someone out there that >>>actually wants to >>>DO this kind of work? >>>And while I`m at it already,do we really need more lectures on how to farm >>>biodynamics? >>>Or is all this lecturing just another excuse for not having to do the legwork? >>>Anyway now we are getting to the point where selling seams the only option >>>and we know, >>>that this farm is worthwhile saving for BDfarming! >>>And yes it kosts money to buy a dairifarm in ontario,but not all people >>>interestet in >>>biodynamics are poor? To keep it short while I`m boiling is not easy! >>>Good advice could be of help,good action could solve! >>>J.v.Frankenberg >>>Joe von Frankenberg >>>rr1 Elmwood >>>N0G 1S0 ONTARIO CA >> >>Hi Joe: >> >>I am not sure I understood your posting. >> >>Do you want to sell your farm ?, How much are you asking for it and what >assets are part of the deal ? >> >>If you need a partner, what do you want from her/him in terms of capital, >work and experience. >> >>Regards >> >> >>Guillermo Romero I. >>Comala, Colima, MEXICO >> >> >>Actually the circle sun farm is lokatet in ontario canada. >>I`m aware that this list is not a real estate marketplace,but we are somewhat >>desperate. >>Our hope is to find a buyer (or sponsor)that wants to keep this farm in >>the realm of BD-farming. >>There is so many possibillities that circle sun farm offers,that it really >>depends on the initiative of the interestet party. >>Circle Sun Farm indicates C_ommunity S_upportet F_arm!! >>I`m quit willing to give more information and bio. but we don`t want to end up >>discussing all the pathways and not find some active interest in this situation >>Tell me your opinion >>joe >Joe von Frankenberg >rr1 Elmwood >N0G 1S0 ONTARIO CN Thanks Joe: I work in environmental issues (ag included) but I make my living ($$$) from real state. My humble opinion is that you need to establish a baseline for negociations (posibibilities) to open up. I agree with you that there is more than a price (for selling) and a whole set of operational conditions (for finding a parter or sponsor), but I guess that within the framework of a market or near market economy, that is the place to start. Regards and best of luck. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 17:17:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17866 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:17:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA13664; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:05:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13070 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:01:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.167] (pm3shep2-163-109.intrepid.net [209.190.163.109]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18639 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:04:47 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000f01be7549$97eb5f80$d02985d0@donnas> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:07:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 356 >Pam, >Do you know of a source for plants for equisetum arvense. > >I have seen other equisetum (hymale) sold for pondscaping....... but not >even Richters offers arvense as a live plant.....only as dried herb. >donaterra You can order it 'in 10inch pots' from us at Claymont (out of Bruce Blevin's own prep garden), or pick it up at Claymont when you come down for classes or festivals. Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA Charles Town, WV Temporary Business address and phone number POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 17:29:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18204 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:29:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA15774; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15486 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:15:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ihug.co.nz (p19-max11.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.17.117.147]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02918 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:18:26 +1200 Message-ID: <36F811C7.C4CB3E4@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:12:23 +1200 From: I & K Buckingham Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Calf rearing w/out the mamma References: <4.1.19990322113726.00c3d100@pop-server> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 357 Phyl Dwyer wrote: > Her "home" is a fenced in stall between two horses. During the day she >can come and go between the paddock and her stall at will What are the conditions like? With respect to muddy areas etc. > Most of her exploration and mock grazing only happens if I'm around, >especially after her morning feeding followed by charming frolicking. We always ensure that our calves have good hay available to chew on. Some eat it more than others. > She has an increasingly harsh skin condition - mange and/or ring worm >which needs attention. Is this all over her body? On feet , head etc. Phyl, too much advice can be just as bad as too little. So my 2c worth :>) Now that you have her feeding and on the road to recovery I would let nature take a hand for a while. As Joan has stated let her system recover before perhaps upsetting the apple cart with more remedies. The mange / ringworm is only an indication of her total system, and I would expect this to disappear as she comes back on an even keel. By keeping an eye on what goes into the calf and what comes out will give you a very good lead to her health. On our farm, if we have a calf miss one feed I would do nothing but check her temperature and the rear end. ( By taking a hold of the base of the ear or the muzzle will give you an indication of body temperature as these areas soon heat up or cool down if things are going wrong) If there is fever or chill I may give a homoeopathic remedy. If by the second feed the animal will still not feed then I will treat. Just as a side issue. If other people are getting a new-born calf from sale yards / undesirable sources I would suggest using the homoeopathic remedy E-coli 30c. If possible give at birth, 24, 48, 72 hours. It is not uncommon for calves to get scours from such places and this will aid in the prevention or at least lessen the affects of the scour. Regards Ian Buckingham Maungatawhiri New Zealand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 18:16:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19452 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:16:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA20498; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:01:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA17459 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:29:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10845 invoked from network); 23 Mar 1999 15:32:02 -0700 Received: from ts2-02.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.153) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 1999 15:32:02 -0700 Message-ID: <36F8166A.8B8CA290@cyberhighway.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:32:14 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: White Moon Dancing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Do YOU have this problem with BD NOW? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 358 Not sure I'm understanding--are his posts just not getting through envirolink? All of mine have been going through just fine. Pam Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > Dear Friends - > > I have attempted to make it clear to Martin that I will hand post messages > for Martin if he will send them to me at igg@igg.com. In the meantime, I am > not receiving messages from him at bdnow@envirolink.org. Not all problems > are easily solved. It will take time to untangle this one. Cooperation and > comraderie in the meantime w.b. most greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > -Allan Balliett > moderator > BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 18:16:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19501 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:16:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA20560; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:02:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19603 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33584-674>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:56:18 -0400 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:56:17 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Re: Celtic salt In-Reply-To: <36F7E13C.4A64B3A6@cyberhighway.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 359 Pam; Perhaps you could ask what type of salt would be best, and when you ask..ask if it could be made homeopathically into a prep...Perhaps placed in the compost... Timing would be good to know..optimum time of year..maybe only sections need it...one time application??? When you think of it you could make quite a list of questions, you would like answers to... There is natural salt which comes from the Salt Lakes in Utah..which is offered free choice to animals..that may be applicable... Hope this helps a little.. --Joan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 18:17:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19518 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA20601; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19695 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:55:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max19-5.stc.net [208.210.143.4]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11531 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:58:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990323180705.35094.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:25:06 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: cow horns Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 360 >Does anyone know where I can get some cow horns? I really don't want to >get them from a slaughterhouse if I can find a better source. I almost >had a couple, a neighbors bull died of natural causes, but he decided he >wanted the skull and horns for a decoration. > >Lynnaea > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Bull horns wouldn't do. They aren't nearly as heavy and thus as resonant as cows' horns. You may obtain these from the Josephine Porter Institute of Applied Biodynamics (JPI) P. O. Box 133, Woolwine, VA 24185, 540 930 2463. Best Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 18:18:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19554 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:18:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA20691; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:02:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA20422 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:01:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp317.cy-net.net [208.21.195.126]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA32619 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:04:06 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE754C.4D0833A0@FLYLO>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:43:38 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE754C.4D0833A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: RE Spirit Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:43:25 -0600 Encoding: 17 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 361 Until Woody brought up the Trumpeter Swans, I had forgotten about this. Sunday we were working in the goat pens, glorious day, everyone dancing around us as we raked and shoveled. The work is usually pretty unpleasant but John and I both were in 'lighthearted' moods because of the goats and it was going pretty smoothly. We saw a big blue heron fly up out of the stock pond but it was circling, not flying in a straight line as they normally do when moving feeding grounds. She was waiting on her mate! He came up soaring and cackling and chasing her. And she wasn't trying to fly very fast to outdistance him either. They dove to our small stock pond (about 100 yards from where we were working) and proceeded to preen each other most of the afternoon. These little things certainly make you feel like you're doing the right thing, and are accepted. maybe by the Diva Spirit? The lovesick call of the heron is much like the frogs they dine on if anyone is interested! (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 18:18:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19571 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:18:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA20641; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:02:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19720 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:55:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max19-5.stc.net [208.210.143.4]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11569 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:58:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:31:07 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Celtic salt Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 362 >the Celtic Salt is available through available from The Grain and Salt >Society at 1-800-867-7258. I should warn you that if y'all think Will >Brinton is expensive, you should forget about that salt, though I do advise >eating it!! But in quantities to put on your land, you'd spent a fortune!! > >But buy some to try eating it because it feels as though it's good for you! >You can taste and smell all the minerals! It's nothing like any salt I've >ever used. First introduced to it through my wondrous Roxbury csa, who seem >to always have a line on good stuff to eat! > >Best, >Jane Folks, I'd agree that celtic (unrefined) sea salt is real pricey. However, you will find at an Korean/oriental market of any size that the Korean unrefined sea salt is a bargain. I'd suggest if salt is used that this is likely to be affordable since I don't think you'd want to put down more than a few kilos per acre. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 18:33:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19923 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:33:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA22696; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22632 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:19:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem59.digisys.net [205.138.110.108]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA15678 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:22:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36F822AA.DF81CF60@digisys.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:24:27 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Celtic salt References: <36F7E13C.4A64B3A6@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 363 Pam, I believe Southern Botanicals carries Celtic Salt. It's really expensive. They have some literature available on it. http://www.botanicals.net/catalog2.htm Pat Pam DeTray wrote: > Has anyone on this list used salt on their land? > The gifted young man who visited and gave me a reading last week not > only revealed the name of my deva. When I asked what else I could do for > my land, the deva suggested it was lacking in salt and I should give it some. > I was already planning to apply kelp for the sea minerals. Could this > also be considered "salt"? > A final question. I did a web search on Celtic salt the other night, and > turned up a page on making colloidal silver, but there was no mention of > Celtic salt on that page. Can anyone enlighten me here? > Thanks, > Pam DeTray > psdetray@cyberhighway.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 18:36:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA20004 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA23102; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:22:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22982 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:22:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (tor-pm-1-21.netrover.com [205.209.27.21]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27859 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:25:12 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:26:45 -0500 Message-ID: <01be7584$9df27cc0$151bd1cd@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 364 Geoff Heinricks : Whereabouts do you live in ontario? If you are close, I could get some horsetail for you next time i get it. regards, manfred palmer -----Original Message----- From: Guillermo Romero To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 2:42 PM Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info >> >>Where can one get seeds or plants, then? I noticed the Richter's lapse. >>I've got a lot of nettle seedlings growing well. So...how does one get hold >>of horsetail, other than the dried prep material? >> >>Geoff Heinricks >>Prince Edward Co., Ontario > >Dear Geoff: > >The Equisetum species reproduces both sexually, throught the production of spores, and asexually throught the production of tubers and stolons. The rhizomes run to the sides of the plant, underwater or in clay like soil. Sorry no seeds here. > >The herb is so common in wetlands that I bet you would not have any trouble finding some wild to be transplanted to your own farm-garden. Where I live horsetail grows year round and I can always get it fresh and wild (organic) for about $ 0.25 USD per Kilo (2 pounds plus). IMHO the fresh tea works better than the dried form to make 508. For one thing, it ferments faster (if that is your prefered method for making 508) and have a better odor. I don't even bother to keep a plant in my place. > >If you still want to purchase a plant, try the herb nursery companies in your area, not the seed companies. > >Regards > > >Guillermo Romero I. >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 19:43:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21456 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:43:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00455; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:27:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00042 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:24:17 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA16029 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:25:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:25:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md17-12.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.140) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma015924; Tue Mar 23 18:25:17 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199932319265839961@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Solution to the problem with BD NOW X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 365 The list could just be renamed "BD LATER ON", and that would solve the expectations for instant BD net chat, thus allieve the ensuing frustration. Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to and from a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power... are you in control of yours? Food is power. Where is yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 19:46:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21557 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00742; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:30:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00532 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:28:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (ascend33.netrover.com [205.209.21.34]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17071 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:31:05 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: cow horns Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:19:42 -0500 Message-ID: <01be758c$03a886c0$151bd1cd@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 366 Connie : In case no-one else has mentioned it, it's good you didn't get the bull's horns. They are not acceptable for the prep-making. You do need Cow horns from a cow which has had at least a couple of calves. About 30 yrs. ago, we got horns at a Toronto slaughter-house, picking through a barrel of them, counting the rings from the base, and choosing their shape. I understand your hesitation about going there, because the air is so full of trauma and desolation. It was our only choice at the time, and i remember consciously interceding with great radiant compassion. I will be looking again soon for horns, and am privileged to be associated with local BD farmers who might save some for me. In future, more and more, there will probably be a waiting list. Good luck,...... manfred palmer -----Original Message----- From: Connie Gilbert To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 1:15 PM Subject: cow horns > >Does anyone know where I can get some cow horns? I really don't want to >get them from a slaughterhouse if I can find a better source. I almost >had a couple, a neighbors bull died of natural causes, but he decided he >wanted the skull and horns for a decoration. > >Lynnaea > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 19:58:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21846 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:58:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA02102; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:45:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01766 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:42:18 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA18450; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:41:20 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:41:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md17-12.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.140) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018396; Tue Mar 23 18:40:43 1999 To: PatandLiz@aol.com To: BDnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199932319422732995@ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: what's going on X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 367 On 03/22/99 00:05:14 you wrote: > > > Remember, all you enlightened folks out there Saw a neat book to do with refining one's self in a fun way. I flipped it open and read: Go about your day like everyone is more enlightened than you." I.e. humble thyself to get a better perspective. , we are only as fast as the >slowest. And I am the slowest. So have some heart and take into consideration >that some may not be able to live up to your ideals. At least for the moment. >And by all means continue to set an example but not in a holier than thou way. > I apologize if I came across like that, which I know I'm prone to do. It's an old skin hard to peel off. I'm learning to just let it fall. In my case, I feel such attitudes comes (in part) from being in touch with Earth's pain, and frustrated at the ignorance abounding, a lot of which is willfull and even arrogantly so. Have you never heard people laugh about not caring about the harm they are doing to themselves with food? Or to Earth? In feeling unable to reach such people, I can turn frustration into arrogance, which gains no one nothing. The happy note is that Steven McFadden's delicious equinox sweat lodge gave me a chance to apologize to Spirit before my peers for said arrogance, and open my heart to all of my fellow humans, rather than shun them, since it is the only way to restore the Garden. In Mirth and Joy! Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to and from a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power... are you in control of yours? Food is power. Where is yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 20:19:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA22463 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:19:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA04055; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:01:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA03871 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:59:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.217] (client-151-196-125-217.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.217]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA13892 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:04:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903240104.UAA13892@smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:55:41 -0500 Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 368 A Big Cross in August, indeed ! I attach an abridged version of a longish -- but interesting article on that theme, including a citation from none other than Nostradamus. With prayers for peace, Steven ----------------------------------------------- The Grand Cross Astrology Pattern of August 1999, and The Cassini Spacecraft's Journey to Saturn -- Copyright - 1999 by T. Chase. All rights Reserved. Email T. Chase at: zchase@hotmail.com The Cassini spacecraft was launched by NASA on October 15, 1997, and is scheduled to send a probe to land on Titan, Saturn's moon, in 2004. Key events in its expanding orbital path may relate to Astrological events. On August 18, 1999, in particular, the spacecraft has a close fly-by with the earth. The Astrological significance of that date is that there is then a cross-shaped alignment of planets on that same day, August 18, and a solar eclipse over Europe on August 11, one week before. One of the much-discussed issues concerning this fly-by is that the spacecraft contains Plutonium which it uses as a power source, although Plutonium is also used in nuclear weapons... ...The day of the Grand Cross in the sky: August 18 1999, is the day that Cassini, carrying Plutonium, passes close to earth The Grand Cross, which is one of the most amazing astrological alignments ever seen in history, consists of: the Sun, Venus, and Mercury in the sign of Leo, Mars and the Moon in Scorpio with Pluto close by in Sagittarius, Saturn and Jupiter in Taurus, and Neptune and Uranus in Aquarius. If Scorpio is considered to be the Eagle, and Aquarius the man, then we have the four beasts seen in Revelation 4 that sit at the throne in heaven, that have the faces of an eagle, a man, a lion, and a calf. This seems to indicate an important time for mankind; I think it may also relate to the rise to power of the Antichrist, especially since there is a cross pattern. Consider what I call the "Southern Cross effect," which I discuss on the first page of this web site. In 1987, a Supernova was seen in the Large Megallanic Cloud in the Southern Hemisphere sky. This seems to have "activated" the nearby Southern Hemisphere constellation the Southern Cross, producing a positive force in the Southern Hemisphere, which resulted in democracy coming to South American countries and positive change to South Africa. This Supernova is now brightening again from a collision of gases in space, and should be visible again to the unaided eye by year 2005. Maybe it will be a new Star of Bethlehem, meaning that hope for the world will come from the Southern Hemisphere. It is interesting that this Supernova will be reaching visibility to the unaided eye in year 2005 as Cassini orbits Saturn. It is also interesting that the Mayan calendar ends its current five thousand year cycle in year 2012, implying that the world will be transformed by then. One week before The Grand Cross, on August 11, 1999, there will be a solar eclipse seen over Europe. Concerning the solar eclipse over Europe on August 11, there is a prophecy by Nostradamus. Nostradamus' prophecies were written in France 400 years ago, and consist of short paragraphs describing catastrophic events in the future. The prophecies are in no particular order, which makes it difficult to interpret them. Some of the prophecies do have dates, including this one -- Century 10, Number 72: "In the year 1999, in the seventh month, from the sky there comes a great king of terror, to bring back the great king of the Mongols, Mars rules triumphantly, before and after" Concerning this prophecy by Nostradamus, it is interesting that the solar eclipse passes over France on August 11, and then on August 18 the Cassini spacecraft with its nuclear fuel passes within a thousand miles of earth's surface, on the exact same day as the Grand Cross pattern. I think the significance of Cassini passing by earth on the day of the Grand Cross pattern is that Cassini may be a hologram, a symbolic parallel event, possibly related to a nuclear event or war at that time. - End - From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 21:03:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23748 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:03:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10275; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:50:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09976 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:47:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.99] (pm3shep2-163-99.intrepid.net [209.190.163.99]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02521 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:50:50 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F8166A.8B8CA290@cyberhighway.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:52:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Do YOU have this problem with BD NOW? Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 369 > >Not sure I'm understanding--are his posts just not getting through envirolink? >All of mine have been going through just fine. >Pam I know Pam, I don't see any problems. If his msgs reached envirolink and were not forwarded, I should receive an error msg (including the unsent msg), but I do not receive any error msgs from Martin either. AND, I've told him repeatedly that he can post through me (I do receive email from him) until 'we find' the source of this problem. (Which is usually a modification of the original email address by user or isp.) -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 21:03:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23749 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:03:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10227; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:49:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from connect1.reach.net (root@connect1.reach.net [204.50.58.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09887 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:47:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.50.58.35] (A04.reach.net [204.50.58.35]) by connect1.reach.net (8.9.1-wasp/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA21106 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:49:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:49:03 -0500 X-Sender: ghein@mail.reach.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: ghein@reach.net (Geoff Heinricks) Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 370 >Dear Geoff: > >The Equisetum species reproduces both sexually, throught the production of >spores, and asexually throught the production of tubers and stolons. The >rhizomes run to the sides of the plant, underwater or in clay like soil. >Sorry no seeds here. > >The herb is so common in wetlands that I bet you would not have any >trouble finding some wild to be transplanted to your own farm-garden. >Where I live horsetail grows year round and I can always get it fresh and >wild (organic) for about $ 0.25 USD per Kilo (2 pounds plus). IMHO the >fresh tea works better than the dried form to make 508. For one thing, it >ferments faster (if that is your prefered method for making 508) and have >a better odor. I don't even bother to keep a plant in my place. > >Regards > >Guillermo Romero I. >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > Thanks Guillermo. It's funny how things work out. About half an hour after I posted the question answered above, I was at fruit growers seminar, about to speak about winegrape growing. I heard a farmer complaining about being over run by them, and asked him about it. He filled me in, as you did, but wasn't sure when might be the best time to collect and transplant them. But he was willing to help, intrigued that something so problematic to him might be useful. Anyways, any suggestions on what stage might be best to dig up some transplants, and how much of the plant stucture should be gathered for success? Regards & Thanks, (and thanks to Manfred too. I've replied to him directly.) Geoff H PEC, Ontario From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 21:43:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA24569 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16615; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:29:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16405 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:29:02 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA02057; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:27:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:27:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md18-39.ix.netcom.com(205.184.107.39) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002027; Tue Mar 23 20:27:49 1999 To: tawndor@bellatlantic.net To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <1999323212930326962@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 371 On 03/23/99 19:55:41 you wrote: > > >A Big Cross in August, indeed ! I attach an abridged version of a longish >-- but interesting article on that theme, including a citation from none >other than Nostradamus. > >With prayers for peace, Steven >----------------------------------------------- > I think the >significance of Cassini passing by earth on the day of the Grand Cross >pattern is that Cassini may be a hologram, a symbolic parallel event, >possibly related to a nuclear event or war at that time. > I think it's time we spend every free second praying we don't get nuked! Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to and from a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power... are you in control of yours? Food is power. Where is yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 21:55:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA24806 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:55:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19149; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:41:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18978 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:40:50 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA20329 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:43:05 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:43:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md18-39.ix.netcom.com(205.184.107.39) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020146; Tue Mar 23 20:42:08 1999 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199932321434935705@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Fwd: [cg] What's Up in Biotechnology, Genetic Engineering X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 372 ------Begin forward message------------------------- I received this from the community gardening list. If you are curious to see what this school is saying about GMOs check this out. It's scary. The guy is saying hybridizing is synonymous with genetic engineering. Eek! The website below links to a slide presentation on biotechnology done by the University of California - Berkeley It gives a quick overview of biotechnology, genetic engineering It starts out "Today I would like to talk with you about the new genetic technologies being used to modify crop plants. I will try to give you the information that you will need to understand the technology and how it differs from the classical means we have used to modify our foods in the past. This is not the first technology that has impacted the food supply in the 10,000-year history of farming. As with other such technologies, the domestication of plants and animals, mechanization, chemical fertilizers and pesticides, the application of the new genetic tools brings questions that involve risks and benefits. We are living in an increasingly complex world where we are called upon to make decisions on technically complex matters and often we are not armed with the facts that we need to make informed decisions. What I would like to do today is to give you enough information so that you will be able to make informed decisions about how these technologies will be used and how the foods derived from this technology differ from the ones we now eat. . . ." Lucy K. Bradley Extension Agent, Urban Horticulture Maricopa County The University of Arizona Cooperative Extension 4341 E Broadway Rd. Phoenix, AZ 85040-8807 Phone: (602) 470-8086 ext 323 Fax: (602) 470-8092 email: BradleyL@ag.arizona.edu http://ag.arizona.edu/maricopa/garden/ _______________________________________________ community_garden maillist - community_garden@mallorn.com https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden ------End forward message--------------------------- Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to and from a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power... are you in control of yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 22:10:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25058 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA20736; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:54:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20282 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:50:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Pdnf-0004kT-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:53:48 -0800 Message-ID: <36F85368.CAE37227@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:52:24 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives References: <199903240104.UAA13892@smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 373 France has the highest per capital Nuclear Power plants. If one of them explodes, and the wind comes from the West, it is likely that a huge area of Europe will not be inhabitable any longer. Last year, my brother said; If ever such an event (explosion) should happen, we would have a new war in Europe. All Scientists would be lynched because we, stupid fools, followed them. And, in addition, France would be shut down as a country. Look at it carefully, what was said below - it makes one shudder. How many Nuclear Power Plants are there in France, 35? (And since the first one started there have been over one hundred serious Nuclear accidents!!!0 Regards Ferdinand (I am still getting BDNOW although I unsubscribed). Steven McFadden wrote: > A Big Cross in August, indeed ! I attach an abridged version of a longish > -- but interesting article on that theme, including a citation from none > other than Nostradamus. > > With prayers for peace, Steven > ----------------------------------------------- > > The Grand Cross Astrology Pattern of August 1999, > and The Cassini Spacecraft's Journey to Saturn -- > > Copyright - 1999 by T. Chase. All rights Reserved. > Email T. Chase at: zchase@hotmail.com > > The Cassini spacecraft was launched by NASA on October 15, 1997, and is > scheduled to send a probe to land on Titan, Saturn's moon, in 2004. Key > events in its expanding orbital path may relate to Astrological events. > > On August 18, 1999, in particular, the spacecraft has a close fly-by with > the earth. The Astrological significance of that date is that there is then > a cross-shaped alignment of planets on that same day, August 18, and a solar > eclipse over Europe on August 11, one week before. > > One of the much-discussed issues concerning this fly-by is that the > spacecraft contains Plutonium which it uses as a power source, although > Plutonium is also used in nuclear weapons... > > ...The day of the Grand Cross in the sky: August 18 1999, is the day that > Cassini, carrying Plutonium, passes close to earth > > The Grand Cross, which is one of the most amazing astrological alignments > ever seen in history, consists of: the Sun, Venus, and Mercury in the sign > of Leo, Mars and the Moon in Scorpio with Pluto close by in Sagittarius, > Saturn and Jupiter in Taurus, and Neptune and Uranus in Aquarius. > > If Scorpio is considered to be the Eagle, and Aquarius the man, then we have > the four beasts seen in Revelation 4 that sit at the throne in heaven, that > have the faces of an eagle, a man, a lion, and a calf. This seems to > indicate an important time for mankind; I think it may also relate to the > rise to power of the Antichrist, especially since there is a cross pattern. > > Consider what I call the "Southern Cross effect," which I discuss on the > first page of this web site. In 1987, a Supernova was seen in the Large > Megallanic Cloud in the Southern Hemisphere sky. This seems to have > "activated" the nearby Southern Hemisphere constellation the Southern Cross, > producing a positive force in the Southern Hemisphere, which resulted in > democracy coming to South American countries and positive change to South > Africa. > > This Supernova is now brightening again from a collision of gases in space, > and should be visible again to the unaided eye by year 2005. Maybe it will > be a new Star of Bethlehem, meaning that hope for the world will come from > the Southern Hemisphere. It is interesting that this Supernova will be > reaching visibility to the unaided eye in year 2005 as Cassini orbits > Saturn. It is also interesting that the Mayan calendar ends its current five > thousand year cycle in year 2012, implying that the world will be > transformed by then. > > One week before The Grand Cross, on August 11, 1999, there will be a solar > eclipse seen over Europe. Concerning the solar eclipse over Europe on August > 11, there is a prophecy by Nostradamus. > > Nostradamus' prophecies were written in France 400 years ago, and consist of > short paragraphs describing catastrophic events in the future. The > prophecies are in no particular order, which makes it difficult to interpret > them. Some of the prophecies do have dates, including this one -- Century > 10, Number 72: > > "In the year 1999, in the seventh month, > from the sky there comes a great king of terror, > to bring back the great king of the Mongols, > Mars rules triumphantly, before and after" > > Concerning this prophecy by Nostradamus, it is interesting that the solar > eclipse passes over France on August 11, and then on August 18 the Cassini > spacecraft with its nuclear fuel passes within a thousand miles of earth's > surface, on the exact same day as the Grand Cross pattern. I think the > significance of Cassini passing by earth on the day of the Grand Cross > pattern is that Cassini may be a hologram, a symbolic parallel event, > possibly related to a nuclear event or war at that time. > > - End - -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 22:12:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25090 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:12:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA21025; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:57:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20692 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:53:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d162.infoserve.net [199.175.157.162]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA01633 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:59:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004201be75a2$09af7cc0$929dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:46:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 374 Thanks, Steven. It has been reported in Info Drei, a German anthr. based publication, that on Aug. 11, in Stuttgart, they will close off the inner city to traffic. Hordes of people from all over Europe-and the world- have been invited to all sorts of street events. Among them is a huge Sing-In of Ode to Joy, exactly when the eclipse passes over Stuttgart. Back to the Grand Cross. Who do you think in the "King of the Mongols"? M. -----Original Message----- From: Steven McFadden To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 5:07 PM Subject: Re: OFF: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives > >A Big Cross in August, indeed ! I attach an abridged version of a longish >-- but interesting article on that theme, including a citation from none >other than Nostradamus. > >With prayers for peace, Steven >----------------------------------------------- > >The Grand Cross Astrology Pattern of August 1999, >and The Cassini Spacecraft's Journey to Saturn -- > >Copyright - 1999 by T. Chase. All rights Reserved. >Email T. Chase at: zchase@hotmail.com > > >The Cassini spacecraft was launched by NASA on October 15, 1997, and is >scheduled to send a probe to land on Titan, Saturn's moon, in 2004. Key >events in its expanding orbital path may relate to Astrological events. > >On August 18, 1999, in particular, the spacecraft has a close fly-by with >the earth. The Astrological significance of that date is that there is then >a cross-shaped alignment of planets on that same day, August 18, and a solar >eclipse over Europe on August 11, one week before. > > One of the much-discussed issues concerning this fly-by is that the >spacecraft contains Plutonium which it uses as a power source, although >Plutonium is also used in nuclear weapons... > >...The day of the Grand Cross in the sky: August 18 1999, is the day that >Cassini, carrying Plutonium, passes close to earth > >The Grand Cross, which is one of the most amazing astrological alignments >ever seen in history, consists of: the Sun, Venus, and Mercury in the sign >of Leo, Mars and the Moon in Scorpio with Pluto close by in Sagittarius, >Saturn and Jupiter in Taurus, and Neptune and Uranus in Aquarius. > >If Scorpio is considered to be the Eagle, and Aquarius the man, then we have >the four beasts seen in Revelation 4 that sit at the throne in heaven, that >have the faces of an eagle, a man, a lion, and a calf. This seems to >indicate an important time for mankind; I think it may also relate to the >rise to power of the Antichrist, especially since there is a cross pattern. > >Consider what I call the "Southern Cross effect," which I discuss on the >first page of this web site. In 1987, a Supernova was seen in the Large >Megallanic Cloud in the Southern Hemisphere sky. This seems to have >"activated" the nearby Southern Hemisphere constellation the Southern Cross, >producing a positive force in the Southern Hemisphere, which resulted in >democracy coming to South American countries and positive change to South >Africa. > >This Supernova is now brightening again from a collision of gases in space, >and should be visible again to the unaided eye by year 2005. Maybe it will >be a new Star of Bethlehem, meaning that hope for the world will come from >the Southern Hemisphere. It is interesting that this Supernova will be >reaching visibility to the unaided eye in year 2005 as Cassini orbits >Saturn. It is also interesting that the Mayan calendar ends its current five >thousand year cycle in year 2012, implying that the world will be >transformed by then. > >One week before The Grand Cross, on August 11, 1999, there will be a solar >eclipse seen over Europe. Concerning the solar eclipse over Europe on August >11, there is a prophecy by Nostradamus. > >Nostradamus' prophecies were written in France 400 years ago, and consist of >short paragraphs describing catastrophic events in the future. The >prophecies are in no particular order, which makes it difficult to interpret >them. Some of the prophecies do have dates, including this one -- Century >10, Number 72: > >"In the year 1999, in the seventh month, >from the sky there comes a great king of terror, >to bring back the great king of the Mongols, >Mars rules triumphantly, before and after" > >Concerning this prophecy by Nostradamus, it is interesting that the solar >eclipse passes over France on August 11, and then on August 18 the Cassini >spacecraft with its nuclear fuel passes within a thousand miles of earth's >surface, on the exact same day as the Grand Cross pattern. I think the >significance of Cassini passing by earth on the day of the Grand Cross >pattern is that Cassini may be a hologram, a symbolic parallel event, >possibly related to a nuclear event or war at that time. > > - End - > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 22:22:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25216 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:22:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA21355; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from cheddar.direct.ca (cheddar.direct.ca [199.60.229.16]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21116 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by cheddar.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #20) id 10Pdu4-0002Fu-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:00:25 -0800 Message-ID: <36F8550F.220A85EB@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:59:27 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Do YOU have this problem with BD NOW? References: <36F8166A.8B8CA290@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 375 Dear Allan, I have UNSUBSCRIBED FROM BDNOW and still received 45 messages. Help. Regards Ferdinand Pam DeTray wrote: > Not sure I'm understanding--are his posts just not getting through envirolink? > All of mine have been going through just fine. > Pam > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > > Dear Friends - > > > > I have attempted to make it clear to Martin that I will hand post messages > > for Martin if he will send them to me at igg@igg.com. In the meantime, I am > > not receiving messages from him at bdnow@envirolink.org. Not all problems > > are easily solved. It will take time to untangle this one. Cooperation and > > comraderie in the meantime w.b. most greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > -Allan Balliett > > moderator > > BD Now! -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 22:29:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25359 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:29:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA23005; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22923 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:14:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-209-79-182-31.vntrcs.pacbell.net [209.79.182.31]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id TAA15634 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:17:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F85B67.A3386652@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:26:32 -0800 From: christopher jones Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-PBI-NC404 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Newcomer References: <36E9E2EC.D34BEE4E@pacbell.net> <36EC89A9.CFF45A80@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 376 Thanks for the info. Ferdinand. I working on it A.S.A.P. Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > christopher jones wrote: > > > I am new to bio-dynamics. I live in in Southern California and have a > > lot of shale with little organic matter. Any suggestions on how to > > begin a more bio-dynamic situation. > > Dear Christopher: > > To begin with, get as much organic matter as you can. Leaves, grass, > compost, kitchen waste, wood chips from leaf trees (never needle) - you > may have to import stuff. Buy BD Compost Preps and get the compost going. > Perhaps you can keep rabbits or get a bit of cow manure from somewhere. > Make sure you get 'a set' of worms, too. Spray 500 soonest. Check your > soil pH. Get a rain barrel. Cover the soil with straw so that soil life > can develop underneath. > > Well, why am I saying this all? YOu may be much further. Sorry for being > so obtrusive. All the best Ferdinand > > > > > > > -- > > > > Christopher Jones > > feast@pacbell.net > > -- > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST > INTO > AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR > WORLD > FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. -- Christopher Jones feast@pacbell.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 22:43:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25507 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:43:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA24548; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:30:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24378 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:28:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10PeOF-0000qz-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:31:36 -0800 Message-ID: <36F85C44.B98BCA32@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:30:12 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: cow horns, no bull References: <19990323180705.35094.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 377 NO BULL HORNS! Must be cow horns. You can take cow hooves or, try it, as we do, take a mane or tail without the flesh part from a horse and wrap the horse droppings into it. Indications are that they turn out very well. We did it the first time last y ear. Ferdinand Connie Gilbert wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get some cow horns? I really don't want to > get them from a slaughterhouse if I can find a better source. I almost > had a couple, a neighbors bull died of natural causes, but he decided he > wanted the skull and horns for a decoration. > > Lynnaea > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - a Center for the transformation of the voice of the forest into an understanding of its soul through the arts. In collaboration with C-Dar World Forest Foundation, a registered charity # BN 89103 0348 RR0001 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 23:31:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA26128 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:31:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA29548; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:16:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29188 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:13:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.134]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990324041633.JZSA4957949.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:16:33 +1200 Message-ID: <36F86752.6911@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:17:23 +1200 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF : August 1999 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 378 The great king of the mongols??? Gengis Khan or Kubli Khan - reincarnating???? or the rise of China as a dominate world power????? The interesting thing of this Aug 99 period is that Pluto is not directly involved in the Grand cross aspect. Therefore one would expect that neuclear accidents or bombs would not be a predominate part of the happenings of the time. Uranus and Netune are the biggies involved which are more earthquakes and floods - in earth signs - all the more reason. The planets do talk about fanatical religious rebellion against existing forms. Fixed signs is often a war thing. Pluto is actually trine to a few things at the time ( Mercury, Ceres, North Node) so there will be plenty of talk and it would seem if everyone is speaking from their hearts and truth then rebelion can be moderated. If possible mind you. So if anything Pluto is looking like the escape valve rather than the trigger. Also remember Solar eclipses act as a vent for drama. You will note crisis are often released at those times. I know there are predictions of neuclear detonations at this time, it is just interesting Pluto is so benign then, unlike chenobyl when there was a Sun Pluto relationship. Anyway food for though and thanks for the nostradamous quote. Glen A From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 23:39:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA26257 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:39:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA00302; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:22:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29938 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.53.216.232] (io6p32.ark.com [209.53.216.232]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with SMTP id UAA01512; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:22:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199903240422.UAA01512@ark.com> Subject: April 24th Bio Dynamic Field Day Date: Tue, 23 Mar 99 20:23:29 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Lang Price To: "Susan Davidson" , "BD forum" , "John Vanden Heuvel" , "Ferdinand Vondruska" , "Gre Visser" , "Ellen Rainwalker" , "Siem de Jong" , "Dale&Maureen Presly" , "Steve Moore" , "Michael Roboz" , "Mary Forstbauer" , "Lawrance Lampson" , "David Wiebe" , "Glen and Carmen Wakeling" , "Mark Sweeney" , "Harvie Snow" , "Ann Macey" , "Cathleen Kneen" , "Brewster and Cathleen Kneen" , "Peter Johnston" , "Mary-Alice Johnson" , "Brian Hughes" , "Gunther Hauk" , "Julia& Susan Grace" , "GRANT FERGUSON" , "Dieter Eisenhawer" , "Ann De Cosson" , "Herman Bruns" , "Mark Bramly" , "Mary Ballon" , "FarmFolk/CityFolk" , "COABC" , "BC Organic Grower" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 379 ANNOUNCEMENT An Invitation to all Organic Farmers & Gardeners, Bee Keepers and Concerned Consumers Bio-Dynamic Agriculture Society of BC Field Day and Workshop Where: On Line Farms', 5660 North Island Highway ( 5 miles north of Courtenay) Courtenay, B.C. (Vancouver Island) When: Saturday, April 24, 1999 - 9am to 4.30pm With: GUNTHER HAUK, world-renowned expert on Beekeeping and Biodynamic agriculture. 9-11:00 Introduction to Biodynamic Agriculture with Gunther Hauk; Stirring with flow form and application of the Biodynamic preparations; Farm Tour 11-11:30 Morning break and travel to Grantham Hall 11:30-12:30 Annual General Meeting, Bio-Dynamic Agriculture Society of B.C. 12:30-1:30 Lunch served at Grantham Hall ($10) 1:30-4:30 Workshop and discussion with Gunther Hauk: "The Plight of the Honeybee: What Can We do to Save Them from Extinction?"; Refreshment break; Questions and Discussion. Admission is free, donations welcome. Biodynamic books and literature will be on display and for sale. No dogs on the farm please. Carpooling from Victoria, Vancouver and Nanaimo available - for those with extra space in their cars or those needing a ride, or for more information, please call (250) 361-1514. Assistance with meal preparation and seating at the hall is appreciated. If you will be joining us for this event, please RSVP by April 18, (250) 361-1514 Sponsored by CAPERS, West Vancouver 5% Day- Thank You Capers For those arriving Friday and/or staying Saturday here is a list of some of the hotels and motels in Courtenay Mid -priced to expensive Inexpensive Kingfisher inn and spa Anco Motel 1-800-663-7929 250-334-2451 Coast Westerly Hotel River Heights Motel 1-800-668-7797 250-338-8932 Best Western/Collingwood Inn Sleepy Hollow 1-800-528-1234 250-334-4476 Travel Lodge 1-800-663-0191 Courtenay is located about half way up the east side of Vancouver Island. >From Victoria we are about 3+ hours north on the highway, from Naniamo we are 1.5 hours north. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 02:22:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA28126 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:22:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA14773; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:09:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA14547 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:06:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.161] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.161]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F93007TQ5G8BI@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:17:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:23:17 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id CAA14551 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 380 >>Dear Geoff: >> >>The Equisetum species reproduces both sexually, throught the production of >>spores, and asexually throught the production of tubers and stolons. The >>rhizomes run to the sides of the plant, underwater or in clay like soil. >>Sorry no seeds here. >> >>The herb is so common in wetlands that I bet you would not have any >>trouble finding some wild to be transplanted to your own farm-garden. >>Where I live horsetail grows year round and I can always get it fresh and >>wild (organic) for about $ 0.25 USD per Kilo (2 pounds plus). IMHO the >>fresh tea works better than the dried form to make 508. For one thing, it >>ferments faster (if that is your prefered method for making 508) and have >>a better odor. I don't even bother to keep a plant in my place. >> >>Regards >> >>Guillermo Romero I. >>Comala, Colima, MEXICO >> > >Thanks Guillermo. > >It's funny how things work out. About half an hour after I posted the >question answered above, I was at fruit growers seminar, about to speak >about winegrape growing. > I heard a farmer complaining about being over run by them, and asked him >about it. He filled me in, as you did, but wasn't sure when might be the >best time to collect and transplant them. But he was willing to help, >intrigued that something so problematic to him might be useful. > > > Anyways, any suggestions on what stage might be best to dig up some >transplants, and how much of the plant stucture should be gathered for >success? > >Regards & Thanks, >(and thanks to Manfred too. I've replied to him directly.) > >Geoff H >PEC, Ontario Yes Geoff, it is funny how BD things happen. While I was waiting for my hard to get and import BD preps from JPI some year ago, suddenly most everything that was needed to make the preps appeared effortless at my doorstep. My frontdoor neighbor is a butcher and he has given me many more horns than what I could posibly use here. A sweet old lady brings the horsetail herb to my door every once in a while and that is the only herb that she sells (it is widely used here for kidney related problems). I discovered a mountain filled with quartz crystals just 7 miles away from my house........ etc. At this point I am doing my own 500, 501, 508 and horn clay. I have a believe in place that the compost preps are too much of a hasle for me to make, but I am sure that when the time is right and the need arise, I will be getting skulls and bladers, and valerian and dandelion, and whatever else is needed. It is nature supporting itself ! The info I have on Horsetail says that the plant may be propagated by root sections collected from horsetail stands in the spring, when the plant begins to send up its spearlike stems. That is just after the the spore bearing structure, produced in early spring, dies down. So I guess, you'll just have to wait a little while now to get busy collecting root sections. I remember that at some point someone posted in Allan's website a picture of horsetail, with the stems and the catkin showing, probably it is still there to help you identify the parts of the plant. What do you know about those pictures dear Allan Balliet? Hope this helps. Warm regards. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 03:43:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA28807 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 03:43:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA20054; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 03:31:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from saturn.nildram.co.uk (saturn.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.22]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA20018 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 03:31:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from pbn-computer (ppp47-49.dial.nildram.co.uk [195.112.47.49]) by saturn.nildram.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09932 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:34:59 GMT Message-ID: <006301be75d1$7de002c0$312f70c3@pbn-computer> From: "Rosemary Burton" To: Subject: unsubscribe Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:35:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE75D1.54A88EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 381 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE75D1.54A88EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE75D1.54A88EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE75D1.54A88EE0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 04:40:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA29379 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:40:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA22529; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:26:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22434 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:25:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([203.96.104.247]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990324092832.MJNI4957949.mta1-rme@default> for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:28:32 +1200 Message-ID: <36F8B0AA.3404@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:30:18 +1200 From: Rambler Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Celtic salt References: <36F7E13C.4A64B3A6@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 382 Hi Pam My wife and I have been cooking with Celtic Salt for a few years now , it is the most delicious salt I have ever tasted. IT is how ever expensive about $18 NZ per 500gms. Here is some information from the back of the packet. Hand Harvested Celtic sea salt from the marshlands of Brittany, France is uniquely evaporated by the sun and wind and delicatly gathered by hand with long woodentools by the dedicated Salt Farmers of the Region. This Ancient time honoured method of hand harvesting ensures a pure unrefined, fully mineralised, well balanced sea salt of the highest potency.This sea salt has been certified Organic and stamped with approval for its purity by two of the worlds most respected associations "Nature et Progres" of Europe and the "Biological Farmers of Australia" Pam Kelp will have similar amounts of trace elements as sea salt I have not got the comparisons handy at the moments. I use kelp as a liquid fertiliser and as liquid plant spray on a regular basis and use it in my compost heaps to supply trace elements . I also put some into my barrel composts. Hope this helps Cheers Tony Robinson Rambler Flowers New ZealandPam DeTray wrote: > > Has anyone on this list used salt on their land? > The gifted young man who visited and gave me a reading last week not > only revealed the name of my deva. When I asked what else I could do for > my land, the deva suggested it was lacking in salt and I should give it some. > I was already planning to apply kelp for the sea minerals. Could this > also be considered "salt"? > A final question. I did a web search on Celtic salt the other night, and > turned up a page on making colloidal silver, but there was no mention of > Celtic salt on that page. Can anyone enlighten me here? > Thanks, > Pam DeTray > psdetray@cyberhighway.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 06:08:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA29892 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:08:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA27378; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:51:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA27228 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:50:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.99] (pm3shep4-163-191.intrepid.net [209.190.163.191]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA07355; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:53:32 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:55:48 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: (From Al Kapluler) Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 383 Dear Paco, I wondered why we are destroying the biosphere also, and years ago traced it to violence in the food system. Goes back to bacteria So I got into free amino acids since they precede cells, and working with Gurusiddiah did hundreds of amino acid analyses for free amino in the juices of common fruits and vegies. Also explored snibbitting, cutting the bottoms off garlics and replanting them; similar notion with carrots, radishes, parsnips except for these one plants the tops, and looked at allthe fruits and vegies for the direction of non violence And continue to work for peace, love and ahimsa. best to you Mushroom (aka al kapuler) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 06:08:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA29904 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:08:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA27334; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:51:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA27223 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:50:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.99] (pm3shep4-163-191.intrepid.net [209.190.163.191]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA07350; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:53:29 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:55:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: (From Al Kapluler) Re: OFF topic RE: Al Kapuler Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 384 dear martha, no web site for posting photos although i'm due to talk to the Corvallis Organic Garden Club about botanizing belize and the Corvallis Orchid Society about Belize orchids, but not before i figure out a kinship layout for the largest family of plants ca 25000 species, and nice to hear some memories about caye caulker rosita arvigo is in Cayo, 7 miles outside San Ignacio she wrote Sastun about apprenticing with Don Eligio Ponti, mayan curandero and i got some positive vibes, a few healing recipes to follow, and a poultice to wear nightly to reduce my swollen lymph glands best to you al kapuler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 06:08:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA29912 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:08:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA27412; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:51:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA27233 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:50:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.99] (pm3shep4-163-191.intrepid.net [209.190.163.191]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA07362; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:53:34 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:55:55 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: (From Al Kapluler) Re: Alan Kapuler and Peace Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 385 Dear Parker, The mail order part of Peace Seeds was bought by Seeds of Change and one step to getting me as Research Director, now in my 10th year. Vol 3+4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 are available from Seeds of Change (offered in the Deep Diversity Catalog) or from me directly at 2385 SE Thompson St Corvallis OR 97333. The set is $64 + $5 postage. I will continue to work on kinship gardening, conservation of diversity, the fabric of life as I begin to live, part time, in Belize. Deep Diversity will become the recipient of new collections. Best to you Al Kapuler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 06:09:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA29920 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:09:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA27290; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:51:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA27215 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:50:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.99] (pm3shep4-163-191.intrepid.net [209.190.163.191]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA07342; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:53:25 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:55:34 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: (From Al Kapluler) Re: GMO's & Spiritual Perspectives Cc: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 386 Dear Jane, Great good feelings and agreement that Allan Balliett has earned a heartfelt thanks for stimulating real discussion and furthering much needed interest in organics, biodynamics and the essential nature of diversity. Pesticides, herbicides in particular, are vectors for plant genocide. Pre-chemical era agriculture, you couldn't eliminate all the weeds in a field, and one left fence and hedge rows. Now its dead from border to border and all those little weeds and bugs that knit the fabric of life into a tapestry of sustainability are disappearing. And hence gardening and the integrity of our food system becomes the prime civil rights issue of our times. Love and Peace Al Kapuler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 08:11:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA00926 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:11:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA02911; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:59:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA02812 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:57:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-003.midcoast.com [208.153.20.103]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA04729 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:00:22 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990323133737.007e2da0@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:37:37 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: RE: Calf rearing w/out the mamma In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990322134704.00c4d710@pop-server> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 387 So glad you are trying flower essences! What about 5-flower formula (rescue remedy" for shock and trauma? Your other flower choices sound great! John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA At 01:52 PM 3/22/99 -1000, you wrote: >Dear Friends, > >I misstated the "supplements" we are giving to Monique. They are actually >flower essences, not essential oils. And it is not primrose we are giving >her, but mariposa lily to help her in her new home and comfort her from >being estranged from her mother. > >Phyl > >=================================================== > Please note Phyl Dwyer's new email address > >=================================================== > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 08:41:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA01297 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:41:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA05262; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:29:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05218 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:29:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d140.infoserve.net [199.175.157.140]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA22761 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:34:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004c01be75fa$cd66e920$8c9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: Celtic salt Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 05:04:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 388 And Kelp is much much cheaper!! At least here in Canada. There is a local organically labelled commercial kelp product. There is another source right here in Vancouver, on the beach, at low tide, at certain times of the year-very cheap, but, very heavy to carry! M. -----Original Message----- From: Rambler To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 1:32 AM Subject: Re: Celtic salt >Hi Pam My wife and I have been cooking with Celtic Salt for a few >years now , it is the most delicious salt I have ever tasted. IT is how >ever expensive about $18 NZ per 500gms. >Here is some information from the back of the packet. >Hand Harvested Celtic sea salt from the marshlands of Brittany, France >is uniquely evaporated by the sun and wind and delicatly gathered by >hand with long woodentools by the dedicated Salt Farmers of the Region. >This Ancient time honoured method of hand harvesting ensures a pure >unrefined, fully mineralised, well balanced sea salt of the highest >potency.This sea salt has been certified Organic and stamped with >approval for its purity by two of the worlds most respected associations >"Nature et Progres" of Europe and the "Biological Farmers of Australia" > >Pam Kelp will have similar amounts of trace elements as sea salt I >have not got the comparisons handy at the moments. I use kelp as a >liquid fertiliser and as liquid plant spray on a regular basis and use >it in my compost heaps to supply trace elements . I also put some into >my barrel composts. > >Hope this helps >Cheers Tony Robinson >Rambler Flowers >New ZealandPam DeTray wrote: >> >> Has anyone on this list used salt on their land? >> The gifted young man who visited and gave me a reading last week not >> only revealed the name of my deva. When I asked what else I could do for >> my land, the deva suggested it was lacking in salt and I should give it some. >> I was already planning to apply kelp for the sea minerals. Could this >> also be considered "salt"? >> A final question. I did a web search on Celtic salt the other night, and >> turned up a page on making colloidal silver, but there was no mention of >> Celtic salt on that page. Can anyone enlighten me here? >> Thanks, >> Pam DeTray >> psdetray@cyberhighway.net > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 09:39:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA02129 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:39:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10868; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10584 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from slip202-135-86-118.ak.nz.ibm.net (slip202-135-86-118.ak.nz.ibm.net [202.135.86.118]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA63160 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:28:23 GMT Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:28:23 GMT Message-Id: <199903241428.OAA63160@out2.ibm.net> X-Sender: lblair@pop03.ca.us.ibm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Lynton Blair Subject: Re: Do YOU have this problem with BD NOW? Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 389 At 08:52 PM 3/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >>Not sure I'm understanding--are his posts just not getting through envirolink? >>All of mine have been going through just fine. >>Pam > >I know Pam, I don't see any problems. If his msgs reached envirolink and >were not forwarded, I should receive an error msg (including the unsent >msg), but I do not receive any error msgs from Martin either. > >AND, I've told him repeatedly that he can post through me (I do receive >email from him) until 'we find' the source of this problem. (Which is >usually a modification of the original email address by user or isp.) > Just a thought: is he using the correct address, he could have a space in BD NOW when it should be BDNOW? Lynton From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 11:35:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA03722 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:35:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA02837; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:24:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02248 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:22:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem33.digisys.net [205.138.110.82]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28711 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:25:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36F91272.B3C6996D@digisys.net> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:27:31 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: [cg] What's Up in Biotechnology, Genetic Engineering References: <199932321434935705@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4E34B9A36D7C06133B4DDFE8" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 390 --------------4E34B9A36D7C06133B4DDFE8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is indeed interesting reading. The following excerpt is from the plantbio.berkeley site. To fully appreciate how chilling this is, the entire text should be read. "As we learn more about the health benefits of these and other natural plant compounds it may be possible to engineer plants to make more of them or to make them in the laboratory to be used as food supplements. In addition plants are being used to produced low-cost and efficient vaccines for animal and human diseases. In this application, immunization will occur by simply genetically altering the crop to contain the vaccinating compound which effects protection when ingested. This strategy is being developed for humans in order to provide easily delivered, low-cost vaccines in developing countries and in animals to deliver vaccines effectively to large animal herds." beanman@ix.netcom.com wrote: > ------Begin forward message------------------------- > > I received this from the community gardening list. > > If you are curious to see what this school is saying about GMOs check this out. > It's scary. The guy is saying hybridizing is synonymous with genetic engineering. > Eek! > > The website below links to a slide presentation on biotechnology done by > the University of California - Berkeley > > > > It gives a quick overview of biotechnology, genetic engineering > > It starts out > > "Today I would like to talk with you about the new genetic technologies > being used to modify crop plants. I will try to give you the information > that you will need to understand the technology and how it differs from the > classical means we have used to modify our foods in the past. > > This is not the first technology that has impacted the food supply in the > 10,000-year history of farming. As with other such technologies, the > domestication of plants and animals, mechanization, chemical fertilizers > and pesticides, the application of the new genetic tools brings questions > that involve risks and benefits. We are living in an increasingly complex > world where we are called upon to make decisions on technically complex > matters and often we are not armed with the facts that we need to make > informed decisions. > > What I would like to do today is to give you enough information so that you > will be able to make informed decisions about how these technologies will > be used and how the foods derived from this technology differ from the ones > we now eat. . . ." > > Lucy K. Bradley > Extension Agent, Urban Horticulture > Maricopa County > The University of Arizona > Cooperative Extension > 4341 E Broadway Rd. > Phoenix, AZ 85040-8807 > > Phone: (602) 470-8086 ext 323 > Fax: (602) 470-8092 > email: BradleyL@ag.arizona.edu > http://ag.arizona.edu/maricopa/garden/ > > _______________________________________________ > community_garden maillist - community_garden@mallorn.com > https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden > > ------End forward message--------------------------- > > Happy Gardening, > > John Edward Verin > Senior Apprentice > Ecosystem Farm > Accokeek, MD > > BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! > How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to and from a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? > > Food is power... are you in control of yours? --------------4E34B9A36D7C06133B4DDFE8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is indeed interesting reading. The following excerpt is from the plantbio.berkeley site. To fully appreciate how chilling this is, the entire text should be read.
 
"As we learn more about the health benefits of these and other natural plant
compounds it may be possible to engineer plants to make more of them or to make them in the
laboratory to be used as food supplements. In addition plants are being used to produced low-cost
and efficient vaccines for animal and human diseases. In this application, immunization will occur by
simply genetically altering the crop to contain the vaccinating compound which effects protection
when ingested. This strategy is being developed for humans in order to provide easily delivered,
low-cost vaccines in developing countries and in animals to deliver vaccines effectively to large animal
herds."

beanman@ix.netcom.com wrote:

------Begin forward message-------------------------

I received this from the community gardening list.

If you are curious to see what this school is saying about GMOs check this out.
It's scary. The guy is saying hybridizing is synonymous with genetic engineering.
Eek!

The website below links to a slide presentation on biotechnology done by
the University of California - Berkeley

<http://plantbio.berkeley.edu/~outreach/WHATIS.HTM#16>

It gives a quick overview of biotechnology, genetic engineering

It starts out

"Today I would like to talk with you about the new genetic technologies
being used to modify crop plants. I will try to give you the information
that you will need to understand the technology and how it differs from the
classical means we have used to modify our foods in the past.

This is not the first technology that has impacted the food supply in the
10,000-year history of farming. As with other such technologies, the
domestication of plants and animals, mechanization, chemical fertilizers
and pesticides, the application of the new genetic tools brings questions
that involve risks and benefits. We are living in an increasingly complex
world where we are called upon to make decisions on technically complex
matters and often we are not armed with the facts that we need to make
informed decisions.

What I would like to do today is to give you enough information so that you
will be able to make informed decisions about how these technologies will
be used and how the foods derived from this technology differ from the ones
we now eat. . . ."

Lucy K. Bradley
Extension Agent, Urban Horticulture
Maricopa County
The University of Arizona
Cooperative Extension
4341 E Broadway Rd.
Phoenix, AZ  85040-8807

Phone:  (602) 470-8086 ext 323
Fax:  (602) 470-8092
email:  BradleyL@ag.arizona.edu
http://ag.arizona.edu/maricopa/garden/

_______________________________________________
community_garden maillist  -  community_garden@mallorn.com
https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden

------End forward message---------------------------

Happy Gardening,

John Edward Verin
Senior Apprentice
Ecosystem Farm
Accokeek, MD

BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN!
How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to and from a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food?

Food is power... are you in control of yours?

  --------------4E34B9A36D7C06133B4DDFE8-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 11:57:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04943 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:57:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08205; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08002 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:45:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.20.69]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:48:15 +0000 Message-ID: <36F917BE.351D@cwcom.net> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:50:06 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Re maths books and good English Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 391 Pam - Agreed. I've no problem with language evolving, except when it introduces confusion or quite unnecessary bad practices. Whereas no-one would expect (say) the chalked price-list outside a village store to be totally grammatically correct, kids might believe that an international corporation (yes, we have Lands' End in Britain, too) would get it right - just as they might expect a Vice President to be able to spell 'potato' :-) (sorry this is late, I now see that I mis-typed 'wnvirolink' the first time around - any relevance to the BDNow problems thread ?) Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 14:50:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09701 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:49:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28998; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:09:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27980 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:06:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.2]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:10:48 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:09:13 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: DEVAS cannot move away--Correction Message-ID: <92DFEC1D7F378F938525673E0057E862.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 392 yesterday Ferdinand wrote to correct my mistatement of info from him and further down is the original post, misremember by me! : <> Here is a post from the end of July, surrounding a discussion which I believe Christine initiated in a thread on GMO's. This list has been focused on this issue, for quite some time! (Christine) <> Ferdinand wrote in response: <,"Monsanto and Novartis and many others secretly changed the very basis on which we are standing by introducing fertilizers that ruined the soil. And now, as the soil is kaputt, they can introduce the GMOs. Already with the introduction of a host of chemicals, fertilizers, weed killers etc. the elementals could not take properly hold of the plants any longer. They fled to the mountains, the NOrth, the few places that are not (yet) sprayed. Steiner indicated around 1920 that the elementals were leaving Southern and Central Europe for the North. Then, Ita Wegman indicated, later, that the Elementals will move further West, North West. It is said that she indicated that they will stay as long as possible in the North (BC, Yukon, Alaska, NW Territorries) and that a future re-greening of the earth 'may' eventually come from there. Mr. Francis Edmunds (Emerson College) implored that we start islands of culture (agri-culture and art-culture). Those will be the places to which the elementals will be attracted and active in. Mind you, it ain't easy to work with them. Many have lost confidence in mankind. I could give you personal experiences of what they do if and when they are fed up with us : tornadoes, hail, earthquakes, heat waves, floods and so forth. Dr. Steiner was clear that by the end of this Century, massive natural cathastrophes would hit this planets. And their origin? A massively hurt and angered elemental world.">> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 16:03:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12362 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:03:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA24869; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:54:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24463 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:52:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (p01-76.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.251]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id JAA23345 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:55:35 -0600 Message-ID: <00c201be761f$d2a2c920$fbf2facf@pavilion> From: "parker" To: Subject: exit Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:57:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BE75DC.C3A555C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 393 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BE75DC.C3A555C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List- I have so much enjoyed my winter experience on the list, but am now out = at the farm. Beautifully the place is so remote that we only have a = cellular phone, so calls are too expensive and with my primitive sense( = or lack there of) of turning a wild perrenial field by hand, time is of = the essence. I will try and pick up this thread when i am situated at = school in Arizona in the fall. My best to everyone on the coming season, = and to the off season for those down under.=20 Take care, Parker ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BE75DC.C3A555C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have so much enjoyed my = winter=20 experience on the list, but am now out at the farm. Beautifully the = place is so=20 remote that we only have a cellular phone, so calls are too expensive = and with=20 my primitive sense( or lack there of) of turning a wild perrenial field = by hand,=20 time is of the essence. I will try and pick up this thread when i am = situated at=20 school in Arizona in the fall. My best to everyone on the coming season, = and to=20 the off season for those down under.
Dear List-
 
Take care,
Parker
------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BE75DC.C3A555C0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 17:52:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15838 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:52:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA28442; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:15:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27797 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:13:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d159.infoserve.net [199.175.157.159]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA14794; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:18:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001d01be763b$9acc9780$9f9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: "curtis lange" Cc: Subject: Fw: OFF/ debunking GE/ GEN3-24 UK Parliament, plus Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:15:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 394 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 12:00 PM Subject: GEN3-24 UK Parliament, plus >Here is a website for the text of an excellent talk entitled > >"Debunking the Myths of Genetic Engineering in Field Crops" > >by E. Ann Clark, PhD, Plant Agriculture, University of Guelph, Guelph, ON >(aclark@plant.uoguelph.ca) > >It was Presented to Alternatives, Kitchener, ON Canada 2 March 99 > >http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac/myths.htm > >More essays on GE are at Dr. Clark's website, >http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > >......... > >next articles Posted Tue, 23 Mar 1999 by: Paul Davis , >who said: > >In a UK Parliament debate on the World Trade Organisation, Monsanto came >under heavy fire. Their appalling research on BST, corrupt politics, >manipulation of vetting agencies and potential damage all came under the >microscope. The following speaker also pointed out that Parliament was >lagging behind the public, who have already 'cottoned-on' to Monsanto's >crooked ways. > >............. > >Monsanto blasted in UK Parliament Debate Pt 1 > >Text from UK Parliament: > >Mr. Simpson, M.P.: >The history of Monsanto's interests in bovine somatotropin milk and >genetically modified crops is littered with the company buying its way into >public policy decisions in its favour. Last week, evidence was published to >show that the science on BST milk is wretched, the politics corrupt and the >consequences for human and environmental health potentially devastating. > >Monsanto faces a ruling either from us or from the European Union >collectively that says that we are deeply unhappy about removing the ban on >BST milk, because of the damage to livestock and the potential damage to >human beings. > >There are public movements against genetically modified crops. When >Monsanto threatens to take us and the EU to the World Trade Organisation in >pursuit of the free trade rights that it claims, it overlooks the fact that >it has systematically sought to hide from politicians and the public the >downside of all the magic science that it is sailing past us. > >Monsanto has failed even to conduct the necessary broader-based research on >environmental damage. It wants the right to pursue new monopolies in >monocultures that it controls and that will be fundamentally >self-destructive. It is an irony that, in the pursuit of free trade rights, >Monsanto does not happily own up to the fact that it is invoking the part >of the Uruguay agreement that gave it closed markets: the TRIPS agreements >on trade in intellectual property rights. Those agreements allow the >company to take out patents on the crops that it modifies and, in some >parts of the developing world, it slaps patents on crops that it has found. >Its rights to patent life are attempts to remove from common ownership >things that we have had since civilisation has existed. The company also >seeks to take away rights from democratically elected Governments to >protect the diversity of their environments and adequately to protect the >health needs of their citizens. > >If Monsanto obtains the rights to introduce the terminator technology as >part of any WTO ruling, it will have the right not only to take ownership >of life itself, but to take out a patent on death. The company says that it >has encountered no problems in its experiments in the United States, but >one needs only to look at the vast acreage of GM crops on the prairies of >Arizona where, apart from the Monsanto crops, the land is sterile. It has >been soaked in the company's herbicide. It does not have a weed problem >because nothing else can grow. When Monsanto is asked about the impact of >its actions on bio-diversity, its representatives throw up their hands and >say that it is not an issue for them. > >The company has manipulated the rules of the vetting agencies in a way that >is technically brilliant, but ethically corrupt and degrading for humanity. >We have to be prepared to make a stand against that. We easily forget, in >this country and in Europe, that there is no public demand for GM foods and >no agricultural need for them. The GM process has been driven past the >advisory committees on the basis that it is the science that will save >humanity, but it is the science that will turn bad research into huge >corporate profits at huge social cost. > >As a Parliament, we have been slow to catch up with the public's >understanding of the issue. They know, in ways that we are only beginning >to acknowledge, that Monsanto's claims about safety are bogus. The public >know now that Monsanto's research on milk was fiddled. They know that the >inclusion of GM soya with the rest of the soya crop was the result of >calculated efforts by Monsanto to discover whether the public would buy GM >produce if it were clearly identified. The company knew that the public >would not do so, and it manipulated the regulatory regime in the USA so >that it did not have to meet the obligation to identify it. The >environmental damage falls outside the terms of the monitoring agencies in >the USA. > >As we debate the relationship between Britain, Europe, the USA and the >World Trade Organisation, we must understand that people have given up >waiting for a parliamentary lead. There are good reasons for that: we have >a 200-year history of the public taking food safety disputes into our own >hands. It was about 200 years ago when the first of Britain's food riots >was caused by the adulteration of food. Farmers adulterated flour with >sawdust and supplied the flour as part of the workers' wages. The riots >were about whether anyone had the right to adulterate food in that way and >I say with some pride that that was the momentum behind the Rochdale >co-operative. The people wanted to be able to provide food that was safe >for themselves and their children to eat. The same is happening now in the >riots in India. > >The "Cremate Monsanto" campaign is not waiting for a Government lead before >burning the fields of GM crops that they do not want. The campaign is being >led by farmers and villagers who foresee the destruction of biodiversity in >pursuit of corporate greed. It is echoed by the coalition of developing >world countries who, at the Cartagena biosafety convention, said that they >wanted the right to say no to such produce in order to protect their >biodiversity. Any international trade agreement that fails to deal with >workers' rights or environmental and food sustainability will not be worth >adhering to. Social movements in France and Canada are attempting to take >direct action to challenge the corporate rights assumed by today's global >giants. > >We should bear in mind the public movements staking similar claims in >relation to genetically modified foods in today's supermarkets. If the >United States of America and the food corporations are to threaten us with >a trade war and World Trade Organisation rulings that define our actions as >illegal, we must reply that the British public would probably deem a trade >war to feed safe food to ourselves and our children a war worth fighting. > >Those who want to open up the market without ethical or safety constraints >are backing a horse that the public will not bet on. Rulings may go in >their favour, but if Monsanto and the USA win the right to dump unsafe >foods in United Kingdom markets, we can overrule that right with a civic >right to dump those products in the sea or leave them stockpiled at >supermarket check-outs. We can assert our right not to buy something that >we believe to be endangering our health, the environmental viability of our >country and the international sustainability of relationships in vulnerable >economies. > >....... > >Monsanto blasted in UK Parliament Pt 2 > >Mr. Norman Baker M.P. >Monsanto has made itself public enemy No. 1. It has bulldozed elected >Governments across the world and forced its wretched products on to the >world's population, whether we want them or not. Monsanto must be brought >urgently under democratic control. If the WTO rules permit such activities, >they are wrong and must be changed. If we are not careful, Monsanto will >become the bad news story of the 21st century. The company must be stopped. > >Monsanto has deliberately refused to segregate GM and non-GM crops in order >to deny consumer choice--something to which all hon. Members are committed. >Monsanto also wishes to introduce GM crops, regardless of the possible >environmental consequences. We know from the Advisory Committee on Releases >to the Environment, other Government advisory bodies and from the EU that >there are significant environmental concerns about GM crops. Monsanto does >not want to wait: it wants to steamroller those crops through and give us >no alternative. When the crops are planted and problems arise, Monsanto >will say, "Never mind, let's deal with it now." > >The company wants to undermine alternative sources of non-GM crops. It is >trying to stop us buying non-GM soya from Brazil by buying up Brazil and >halting alternative supplies from that country. Monsanto is the antithesis >of democracy. It is not worried about labelling; it is trying to persuade >us that it is not necessary and that it is somehow a barrier to free trade. >What nonsense. We are entitled to know what we are buying. To be fair, the >Government have accepted that. They have always been committed to >labelling. Monsanto does not want labelling: it wants its products to carry >as little information as possible. It knows that if its products are >labelled accurately--and they are not because most GM material is not >labelled under the present regulations--people will not buy them, and it >does not want that. > >Monsanto has been forcing crops into India and onto the developing >countries of the third world. It has intimidated farmers in the United >States by hiring private investigators and then fining farmers when a >Monsanto seed is found in their soil. > >In this country, Monsanto has been condemned by the Advertising Standards >Authority, which found it guilty of making > > "wrong . . . unproven, misleading and confusing claims" > >in a £1 million campaign. > >How does Monsanto manage to do all that? It uses the revolving door policy, >and makes sure that personnel from Monsanto and Government agency advisory >bodies frequently switch positions. Marcia Hale, the former adviser to the >US President, is now the director of international government affairs for >the Monsanto corporation. Michael Kantnor, the former secretary to the US >department of commerce is now a member of the Monsanto corporation board. >Josh King, the former director of production for White House events, is now >the director of global communications for the Monsanto corporation. >Margaret Miller, the former chemical laboratory supervisor for Monsanto, is >now the deputy director of the new animal drug evaluation office in the US >Food and Drug Administration. We have seen confidential European Union >documents that have been passed to Monsanto by Dr. Nick Weber of the FDA, >and a former Monsanto analyst. > >Monsanto is abusing and twisting the system and getting from it as much as >it can. It is getting the Food and Drug Administration on board and it is >getting the US to fight its corner. I am in favour of free trade and the >World Trade Organisation, but I am not in favour of one company so using >its muscle and contriving matters for its own ends that the opportunity for >consumer choice and Government decisions by democratic bodies is >effectively removed. > >Dan Verakis, the public relations manager for Monsanto in the UK, has said, >"Everybody here hates us." I have to tell Monsanto that I hate it. It is >the antithesis of democracy and it needs to be stopped. > >_________________________________________________________ >Richard Wolfson, PhD >Consumer Right to Know Campaign, >for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term >Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, >500 Wilbrod Street >Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 >tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 >email: rwolfson@concentric.net > >Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html >contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous >genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering >news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above >address. Or see website for details. >__________________________________________________________ >__________________________________________________________ > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 20:17:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18373 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:17:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00480; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:02:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29898 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:58:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from dirkers@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D6H27ZAL; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:56:46 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: ghein@reach.net, donnas@yancey.main.nc.us Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:04:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Study: Horsetail info Message-ID: <19990324.184117.12222.0.Dirkers@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6,10-18,20-40 From: Christopher P Dirkers Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 395 I have acres of horsetail growing on my bottom land. We can supply it dried or as root cuttings. Give a shout if you are interested and we can negotiate further. Donna: we used to live in Wilkes Co., then Catawba Co. N.C. Are you in Yancey Co. N.C.? Christopher Dirkers -------------------------------------- Located in the beautiful Ozarks, Dirkers' Pleasant Valley School and Farm is dedicated to providing nourishment for mind and body. We raise pure, nutritionally enhanced produce, herbs, and pastured poultry. Classes include Family Preparedness, Health & Agronomy, and Scriptural Law. Dirkers' Pleasant Valley School & Farm HC62, Box 370-A Calico Rock, Arkansas. U.S.A. (72519) 870-297-8040 or dirkers@juno.com On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:49:46 -0500 ghein@reach.net (Geoff Heinricks) writes: >>Pam, >>Do you know of a source for plants for equisetum arvense. >> >>I have seen other equisetum (hymale) sold for pondscaping....... but >not >>even Richters offers arvense as a live plant.....only as dried herb. >>donaterra > >Thanks for starting this thread on Horsetail, Pam. > >Where can one get seeds or plants, then? I noticed the Richter's >lapse. >I've got a lot of nettle seedlings growing well. So...how does one get >hold >of horsetail, other than the dried prep material? > >Geoff Heinricks >Prince Edward Co., Ontario > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 22:38:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20046 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:38:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA12780; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:25:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12578 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:23:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.160]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990325032545.TUYK4957949.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:25:45 +1200 Message-ID: <36F9ACE6.7A26@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:26:30 +1200 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Neptune and Pluto conjuction 1892 - misinformation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 396 While wandering through a book today I discovered my dates for the Neptune Pluto conjunction at the end of last century were wrong and that the right dates was in August and November 1891 and April 1892. Interestingly this event occurred at 8 degrees Gemini at the time. Which is opposite to where Pluto is now. This means Pluto is in the 'full moon' phase of its cycle to this point, remembering it is conjunct to the fixed star - Antares - Which it rules also now. Neptune the Mystical Life Spirit and Pluto the Sharmanic Spirit Man are a power packed team when they get together and their cycle will indicate a major process of human spiritual evolution and hopefully big door ways for humanity to be conscious controllers of spiritual forces standing behind matter. The people born in 1892ish will have carried this impulse in their beings and could have built upon a growing mysticism which was coming to consciousness through the 19th century. I believe that a period of thirty years of utter turmoil starting in 1914 - when these people were 22 - in the heartland of this spiritual revolution -Europe- set back and killed very many of the cosmos's foot soldiers of this evolution. Many of the creations of this time have been used by a small minority of humanity, while us 'consumers' are only once again gaining access to the possibilities budding into full power then. What has survived and is becoming available now is being picked up again and used as best we can. Pluto at this time (and Neptune in 1972) challenges humanity to find the sharmanic/spirit self consciousness within our beings and to bring this as a potential into our every day lives. The cosmic time clock says now is the moment and regardless of the setbacks humanity has experienced in the process, the seeds from the collective unconscious of history and this century, remains available for us - from the collective unconscious - now, for us to be an expression of this possibility. Neptune in 1972 may be seen as the mystical /inner initiation of humanity into this, while 1999 is the chance for the sharmanic / will manifestation of this impulse. This time it is going to manifest big time, no just as an inner experience. Pluto (to me) is primarily about the empowerment of the incarnated spirit to conscious universally harmonic action. Its lesser manifestations come as power struggles for ultimate control and all that stems from that. Just looking around provides many examples of this taking place in many ways. So while we are confronting GE and materio-capitio consumerism, I also see many reality cracks opening up, where RSs work (and many others) provide us with the tools to create the creative changes the universe is also hoping for. Decisions are made at 'full moon' times , with the last half of the cycle providing the unfolding and manifesting process of that change. So we stand at the decision table, now. We are part of the big event which determines the next 100 or so years. The judgement is not given till the judge drops his hammer, which is possibly around 17 November 1999. Pluto, Chiron and Antares all conjunct during these months around 9 Sagittarius. The 20th of January and then the 8th of May 1999 are the other two times this event is occurring this year. Pluto was at 8deg. Sagittarius 12.98, 6&7.99 then 9&10.99 So dear companions, cosmic moments are afoot and we are this seasons people, if we make the jump, its jumped! Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 03:09:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA22851 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 03:09:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA06910; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 02:54:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06684 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 02:51:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.134] (max16-20.stc.net [208.210.138.148]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA02036 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 02:54:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F91272.B3C6996D@digisys.net> References: <199932321434935705@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:50:29 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: [cg] What's Up in Biotechnology, Genetic Engineering Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 397 There's a lot of energy stored in the ground. This is one of a 100 reasons why I've been saying that horn clay is the greatest discovery ever made in biodynamic agriculture. Others will come to realize that this is true. The second greatest discovery is #800. Be sure to bury some horn basalt horns NOW so you can make it next year. I will send you some of my supply if you want to try it this year. Let me know. Also, don't forget to bury some horn sulfur and horn copper (sulfate). You might also try some horn sodium molybdate but I can't tell you why now. Use different holes if you can and line them with plenty of BD compost. For a little extra kick on the summer sulfur, sprinkle a little (as in small amount) of 508 leaves on the ground on top of the filled hole. That will have quite an effect. You might want to try one hole with horn sulfur w/o 508 and one with 508 and check it radionically. Don't try this with 501 though unless you are going to Dear Greg, I'm taking off for a weekend of workshops in Kansas. You can bet I will mention horn clay. As for Courtney, he's really not too conservative and will do the horn clay work I believe. He may need an impetus, as I did. As for some of the more exotic stuff he'll probably pass, though I don't know this. Courtney, like myself, is a busy guy, and that's a factor. Since I supply Courtney with barrel compost, and I ALWAYS put a sprinkling of equisetum on the top of every barrel, he'll get some of my type BC. It's always been a little different than his, but enough better in quality that he has always taken all I could produce. He's got great storage facilities, which I haven't. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 12:20:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02849 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:20:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA17871; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:02:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from connect1.reach.net (root@connect1.reach.net [204.50.58.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA26458 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:22:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.186.53.9] (E09.reach.net [206.186.53.9]) by connect1.reach.net (8.9.1-wasp/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05457 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:24:04 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:24:04 -0500 X-Sender: ghein@mail.reach.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: ghein@reach.net (Geoff Heinricks) Subject: Re: [cg] What's Up in Biotechnology, Genetic Engineering Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 398 >The second greatest discovery is #800. Be sure to bury >some horn basalt horns NOW so you can make it next year. I will send >you some of my supply if you want to try it this year. Let me know. > >Also, don't forget to bury some horn sulfur and horn copper (sulfate). Hugh, As a grape grower, horn sulfur and copper sulfate caught my eye. I know what these are used for in vineyards (mildew control). What are their uses in BD? And what exactly is, and what are the uses and properties of #800? Geoff Heinricks Prince Edward Co. Ontario From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 12:21:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02864 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:21:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18324; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from russian-caravan.cloud9.net (russian-caravan.cloud9.net [168.100.1.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15340 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:33:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from cloud9.net (mtoro.dialup.cloud9.net [168.100.205.209]) by russian-caravan.cloud9.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC1576351 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:34:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FA642A.1F0EFDEA@cloud9.net> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:28:26 -0500 From: Mark Santoro X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: No till versus Double Digging References: <002801be6f62$d433df40$f3f2facf@pavilion> <36EDCC5B.DB1078FB@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 399 Hello, Regarding no-till vs tilling: While I am just a neophyte, I am not sure I understand why tilling is needed at all after perhaps an initial tilling followed by the application of compost. Would not the worms add enough aeration to the soil? Also, if the soil is constantly stirred up by tilling methods, how does homeostasis ever come about or is that not really an issue with the soil? Lastly, wouldn't a cover crop that incorporates long roots work well to aerate the soil? Simply letting the crop die in place or cutting it would leave all those long roots throughout the soil. Thanks, Mark From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 15:17:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09969 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA11226; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (smtp1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24212 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:02:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903251802.NAA24212@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 27015 invoked from network); 25 Mar 1999 10:58:28 -0700 Received: from ts2-12.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO ?209.161.18.163?) (209.161.18.163) by smtp1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 1999 10:58:28 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:57:34 -0700 Subject: BD compost in arid climate From: "Pam DeTray" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 400 Is anyone else on this list working in an arid climate like mine (annual precip 7") or do you have experience in this? My helper and I are building a large compost windrow of old and new cow and bull manure, last season's dead flowers, which we're adding in layers as the manure comes in, kitchen scraps, and whatever else we can get our hands on. My helper questioned the wisdom of watering the dead stuff once it's on the pile. He feels the moisture in the new manure is sufficient. I go by the "wrung-out sponge" theory of how wet is wet enough, and want to water each layer of dead stuff before adding manure on top. I've seen what can happen in this climate with piles that didn't get enough moisture. Some things can remain intact for years in this climate. I'm not using a shredder, just putting the dead growth (silver king, yarrows, daylilies, iris, etc.) in alternate layers with the manure. However, it's been a long time since I worked with cow manure, so I don't have personal experience to go on here. The base of the pile has a lot of tarragon and other larger dried or partially dried stuff, including some old woody stuff. On top of that is some aged manure. The next layer is dried flower/foliage, and he came in with the next manure load before I could get that watered to my satisfaction. That manure layer didn't cover, but kind of filled in around it, and that's where I was watering when my helper questioned the wisdom of watering. I'm not sure there's enough moisture in there, but on top of that is a load of really wet manure. My helper doesn't have much gardening experience, but he's been reading my BD books for several weeks and learns quickly. I would really appreciate any advice! (Yes, I'm also trying to listen to the deva, but want to hear from you as well.) Do any books exist on working with BD in an arid climate? Thanks! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 15:18:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09990 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:18:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA11448; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09157 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:48:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.27]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:53:15 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:51:34 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Nuclear Dump Opening Message-ID: <2B7C0508C3737A138525673F006D0AEA.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 401 Kieran Clifford on 03/25/99 11:15:00 AM Please respond to clifford@citizen.org To: cmep-list@lists.citizen.org cc: Subject: FWD: Nuclear Dump Opening ===================================== Public Citizen's Critical Mass Energy Project ===================================== ===== Original Message from APIERSMA@CITIZEN (Auke Piersma) at 3/25/99 10:23 am Folks, The following message is from a close ally of CMEP and we fully support their effort to prevent the opening of a nuclear waste dump in New Mexico for a special type of defense waste. Please call the Secretary of Energy today and voice your opposition to dumping nuclear waste in an unstable and unsafe site. _________________________________________________ From: Alliance for Nuclear Accountability We are trying to pull out all the stops on this one. They are actually planning on loading TRU (transuranic, - plutonium contaminated waste) in the WIPP facility in New Mexico tomorrow. (For those just tuning in, WIPP is a dump facility, first dreamed up by DOE in the 1950's, which would bury TRU waste in salt domes. The area contains significant mineral resources which could be mined by future, unsuspecting residents. Additionally the site is not stable and rooms have collapsed and it has been unable to meet radiation release standards.) We have been fighting this facility for decades, and if they succeed in loading waste into the facility, it would be a huge loss for all of us working on protecting the environment. It also is being opened in advance of a required State permit licensing the facility. So if you are working on States' Rights, this is for you also! DOE promised they wouldn't ship waste until they had the State permit, but DOE promises are useless. Please take a moment to place a call or drop in a fax to Energy Secretary Richardson and tell him to stop this shipment! I know you all are busy, but I urge you to take 5 and do this now! It may be your only chance. alert included, also attached in formatted version. Thanks, Maureen please also forward this email to any who might help. EMERGENCY ACTION ALERT! CALL OR FAX SECRETARY RICHARDSON TODAY! PH: 202-586-6210 FAX: 202-586-4403 STOP WIPP! STOP NUCLEAR WASTE! March 24, 1999 - The Department of Energy plans to ship nuclear waste to the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant in New Mexico starting as early as this evening! DOE plans to load waste into this facility even though the State has not granted a license to operate the facility, and numerous studies have shown that it is not safe. DOE plans to load transuranic (plutonium contaminated) waste from the Los Alamos Lab into the WIPP facility tomorrow, even though DOE has promised in the past it would not send waste there until the State of New Mexico had licensed the facility. They plan to ship more waste from Idaho in the next few weeks. Opening this waste dump over the objections of the State, the people, and common sense spells a dangerous new era in which nuclear waste expediency runs roughshod over environmental and social justice concerns. THE TIME TO ACT IS NOW! THIS IS A TURNING POINT, WHAT HAPPENS IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS CAN AFFECT ALL OUR WORK ON NUCLEAR WASTE! CALL OR FAX SECRETARY RICHARDSON PH: 202-586-6210 FAX: 202-586-4403 TELL HIM YOU DON'T WANT WASTE TO GO TO WIPP! TELL HIM NOT TO DESTROY STATES' RIGHTS! For further information contact: Alliance for Nuclear Accountability at 202-833-4668. ===== Comments by CLIFFORD@CITIZEN (Kieran Clifford) at 3/25/99 11:14 am Kieran Clifford Public Citizen's Critical Mass Energy Project 202-546-4996, ext.324 Visit our website: http://www.citizen.org/cmep Questions about the CMEP-list can be directed to cmep@citizen.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 15:18:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10003 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:18:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA11603; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:03:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10361 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:58:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.5]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:03:13 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:01:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Request Forwarded from CSA Message-ID: <7C15555AA6C7A6A48525673F006DF09F.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA10363 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 402 I find myself in an interesting predicament. I am much more than an apprentice, but less than an independent farm manager. More like a CSA manager / Apprentice Coordinator / Co-Manager that works with a team of managers. It is not that I can?t run a farm by my lonesome, but I won?t do it. I don?t want to. I want community. More importantly, it is getting late to join the 1999 growing season. I am deeply committed to sustainability and sustainable agriculture in particular. It is for this reason that I have directed my energy to observing the environment and how we exist in it. As Sandra Faber, a scientist at UC Santa Cruz, puts it, ?all our telescopes looking billions of light years into space have not found one thing to compare in beauty, complexity or wonder to our own planet Earth.? My goal is to help guide our ?moral compass?, providing us with a long term strategy for successfully and sustainably existing here. I have excellent research and organizational skills and am longing for a stage to use them along with my commitment to sustainable agriculture and my agricultural skills. I am very personable and I want to take my experiences ever further, into a realm where I am part of a team of growers, activists, and organizers that run a CSA and education group. I don?t feel that I am currently using my skills to the best of my ability in terms of education and the distribution of information sustainable, etc. Last year I frequented the Catskill Mountains of New York, where I worked as the Production Grower and Assistant Horticulture Therapist at Green Chimneys Children?s Services, a residential treatment facility for emotionally disturbed youth. I was hired as grower at Boni-Bel Farm after one quarter of the season passed me by. The management was in a bind because the previous grower left on short notice, with most of her volunteers. I happened to be in the right place. There were four acres under transitional organic production, whose ?mission? was to supply produce and vocational experience for 120 students and any of the 200 staff at the facility. I feel that Green Chimneys started the program to boast an organic farm. I was the fifth grower in the farm?s young five year life, an unsustainable pattern. Unfortunately I wasn?t given a chance or much support and was working alone for most of the season, except for occasional volunteers and classes. Previously I attended graduate school in NYC as a non-matriculated student studying the environmental problems of urban and metropolitan coasts and I did two apprenticeships and worked on local farms. I am very flexible and therefore open to all opportunities that may arise. If you are looking for such an individual or know someone who is please pass on my info or contact me directly. I am glad to furnish a resume and references. Also, I am looking for other sites where I may post this on the net. Thanks for letting me ramble. Jared William Volpe nuarez@yahoo.com e-mail happens to be the best way to reach me 516-756-0037 Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 15:25:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10167 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13380; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:11:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13157 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:10:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.15]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:14:58 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:13:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Part time job opening Message-ID: <7484EAA1A5381EE58525673F006EEFDF.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 403 To: NE community food systems cc: Subject: Part time job opening Farm/Garden People: Last year, Nancy Sableski, an experienced farm intern, thought up the concept and started a Children's Learning Garden at our Farm (Waltham Fields Community Farm -- 4 acres at UMASS Extension, Waltham, with produce harvested for food pantries and meal programs, also wholesale price farmer's market at city housing complex, volunteers encouraged). Although our Farm often had school and camp groups, generally they just came once to volunteer. Nancy's concept was to engage the kids over a longer period of time (the summer!) so they could see the seed grow into a veggie, etc. She planted a Native American and other ethnic gardens, including flowers and herbs, and had the children actively engaged in planting, cultivating, harvesting, eating garden salads, doing crafts, learning about soil, insects, weather, etc. Kids from Cambridge Camping and the Girl Scouts came (Cambridge Camping a summer camp for low income kids, the girl scouts came to camp across the street, actually mostly 5 and 6 years old!). Unfortunately Nancy cannot continue directing this program (mostly for economic reasons), so we're looking for a Director (also an assistant). The directorship amounts to a 20 hour a week job at $12 June through August, the assistant 20 hours for July and August at $8.00. People interested should send a resume to W.F.C.F., 333 Moody Street #201, Waltham, MA 02453. Thanks! Oakes Plimpton From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 15:57:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10944 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:57:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA18965; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:41:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA18744 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:40:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.25]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:45:31 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:43:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Spring Equinox Message-ID: <6037A9E30A9E13E98525673F0071B679.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 404 <> Dear Cheryl, Thanks for your loving thoughts and deep reminders to us here in the northern hemisphere, that all is balance! May your dreams spin into harmonious manifestation! (and delicious soups!) Happy Autumn and Winter to you! Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 16:31:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11940 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:31:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA23189; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:16:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA22788 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:13:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.6]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:54:41 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:53:00 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: (forwarded) looking for farm apprentices in NY Message-ID: <678EDDD48F0984648525673F0072A9A0.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 405 Threshold Farm is looking for two apprentices from April- Nov and June through August. Please do not write back to me! Write to: Hugh Williams and Hanna Bail Threshold Farm P.O. Box 701 Claverack, NY 12513 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 17:42:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13795 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:42:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA03108; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:23:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02642 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:20:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d151.infoserve.net [199.175.157.151]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25151 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:26:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003701be770e$380a5000$979dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Fw: natural disasters/DEVAS cannot move away--Correction Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:20:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 406 -----Original Message----- From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US To: Michael Roboz Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 12:16 PM Subject: Re: natural disasters/DEVAS cannot move away--Correction >I wish you'd write some of this and post it to the list. It's really >interesting! > > > > >"Michael Roboz" on 03/24/99 04:12:53 PM >To: janesherry@webcity-development.com >cc: >Subject: Re: natural disasters/DEVAS cannot move away--Correction > >I could also add to Ferdy's comments about natural disasters referring to >the AUg. 11, 1999 Grand Cross. It points to the same. RS also said that >passions lead to angering the part of the Earth known as Fire Earth (I >forget which level it is of the 9). These passions lead to more frequent >and >stronger earthquakes and volcanos. Just think about the last few years. >QED. The elementals, of course, are servents of higher sp. beings, so I >can >see why Ferdy said that we angered the elementals. There are many levels >of >elementals. > As for elementals moving to the N. European countries. I took that to >mean that the elementals we want to cultivate still survive there and more >people in those areas are sensitive to them. Down south, other elementals >may have been more active and evoked and less people sensitive. > Ferdy, himself, has had his share of disasters. Fires, floods, etc., >where he is now. Mind you, he had fires at the old farm also. I think >there >is more behind it. >M. >-----Original Message----- >From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 11:50 AM >Subject: Re: DEVAS cannot move away--Correction > > >>yesterday Ferdinand wrote to correct my mistatement of info from him and >>further down is the original post, misremember by me! : >> >> <>I said that Dr. Steiner gave a lecture on >>elemental beings and indicated that they had started (in about 1911) to >>move towards the Northern Countries of Europe such as Finland, Sweden, >>Norway etc. >> >>Devas are not moving away, (and should I have said that they do so, it >>is an error or an error in my printing - but I definitely did not mean a >>moving away of the devas) Devas are NOT moving like elemental beings.>> >> >>Here is a post from the end of July, surrounding a discussion which I >>believe Christine initiated in a thread on GMO's. This list has been >>focused on this issue, for quite some time! >> >>(Christine) <>have as many >>biodynamic sites as possible for living spaces for healthy elementals. >>Walking >>in Ireland you can just tell where elementals have abandoned poisoned >>places, >>just as the birds have, and conversely at the site of the Cooleenbridge >>Waldorf School you have the feeling it's a vacation resort for them. They >>have >>flocked there from all over and are just dancing. This is especially >>obvious >>and shocking in that country where the divisions are thin. If genetically >>modified crops are grown with chemicals, the elementals will probably shun >>them anyway. If they are grown organically, how must they change their >form >>to >>adapt, or will they simply brew up a storm (or many, over many months) and >>then leave in disgust? >>Christine>> >> >>Ferdinand wrote in response: >><,"Monsanto and Novartis and many others secretly changed >>the very basis on which we are standing by introducing fertilizers that >>ruined the soil. And now, as the soil is kaputt, they can introduce the >>GMOs. Already with the introduction of a host of chemicals, fertilizers, >>weed killers etc. the elementals could not take properly hold of the >>plants any longer. They fled to the mountains, the NOrth, the few places >>that are not (yet) sprayed. Steiner indicated around 1920 that the >>elementals were leaving Southern and Central Europe for the North. Then, >>Ita Wegman indicated, later, that the Elementals will move further West, >>North West. It is said that she indicated that they will stay as long as >>possible in the North (BC, Yukon, Alaska, NW Territorries) and that a >>future re-greening of the earth 'may' eventually come from there. >>Mr. Francis Edmunds (Emerson College) implored that we start islands of >>culture (agri-culture and art-culture). Those will be the places to >>which the elementals will be attracted and active in. Mind you, it ain't >>easy to work with them. Many have lost confidence in mankind. I could >>give you personal experiences of what they do if and when they are fed >>up with us : tornadoes, hail, earthquakes, heat waves, floods and so >>forth. Dr. Steiner was clear that by the end of this Century, massive >>natural cathastrophes would hit this planets. And their origin? A >>massively hurt and angered elemental world.">> >> >> > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 17:54:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14038 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:54:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05277; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:39:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04904 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:36:30 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hRNWa21218 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:38:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:38:15 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Hey Andrew! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 407 Hope I got your attention. Can I have your mailing address so I can send you the paperwork on the Malibu CSA farmer position? I just got the info yesterday. Regards, Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 19:04:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16334 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA13395; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.frontiercoop.com (mail.frontiercoop.com [208.130.190.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA13247 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com (ERICA.RENAUD [172.16.10.152]) by mail.frontiercoop.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-37991U200L2S100) with SMTP id AAK1011 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:50:57 -0600 Date: 25 Mar 99 17:50:57 -0600 From: Erica Renaud Subject: RE:Fw: OFF/ debunking GE/ GEN3-24 UK Parliament, plus To: bdnow X-Mailer: QuickMail Pro 1.5.3b3 (Windows32) X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-ID: <19990325235050768.AAK1011@erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id SAA13258 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 408 unsubscribe On 3/24/99, bdnow wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard Wolfson >To: info@natural-law.ca >Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 12:00 PM >Subject: GEN3-24 UK Parliament, plus > > >>Here is a website for the text of an excellent >talk entitled >> >>"Debunking the Myths of Genetic Engineering in >Field Crops" >> >>by E. Ann Clark, PhD, Plant Agriculture, >University of Guelph, Guelph, ON >>(aclark@plant.uoguelph.ca) >> >>It was Presented to Alternatives, Kitchener, ON >Canada 2 March 99 >> >>http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac/my >ths.htm >> >>More essays on GE are at Dr. Clark's website, >>http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.ht >m >> >>......... >> >>next articles Posted Tue, 23 Mar 1999 by: Paul >Davis , >>who said: >> >>In a UK Parliament debate on the World Trade >Organisation, Monsanto came >>under heavy fire. Their appalling research on BST, >corrupt politics, >>manipulation of vetting agencies and potential >damage all came under the >>microscope. The following speaker also pointed out >that Parliament was >>lagging behind the public, who have already >'cottoned-on' to Monsanto's >>crooked ways. >> >>............. >> >>Monsanto blasted in UK Parliament Debate Pt 1 >> >>Text from UK Parliament: >> >>Mr. Simpson, M.P.: >>The history of Monsanto's interests in bovine >somatotropin milk and >>genetically modified crops is littered with the >company buying its way into >>public policy decisions in its favour. Last week, >evidence was published to >>show that the science on BST milk is wretched, the >politics corrupt and the >>consequences for human and environmental health >potentially devastating. >> >>Monsanto faces a ruling either from us or from the >European Union >>collectively that says that we are deeply unhappy >about removing the ban on >>BST milk, because of the damage to livestock and >the potential damage to >>human beings. >> >>There are public movements against genetically >modified crops. When >>Monsanto threatens to take us and the EU to the >World Trade Organisation in >>pursuit of the free trade rights that it claims, >it overlooks the fact that >>it has systematically sought to hide from >politicians and the public the >>downside of all the magic science that it is >sailing past us. >> >>Monsanto has failed even to conduct the necessary >broader-based research on >>environmental damage. It wants the right to pursue >new monopolies in >>monocultures that it controls and that will be >fundamentally >>self-destructive. It is an irony that, in the >pursuit of free trade rights, >>Monsanto does not happily own up to the fact that >it is invoking the part >>of the Uruguay agreement that gave it closed >markets: the TRIPS agreements >>on trade in intellectual property rights. Those >agreements allow the >>company to take out patents on the crops that it >modifies and, in some >>parts of the developing world, it slaps patents on >crops that it has found. >>Its rights to patent life are attempts to remove >from common ownership >>things that we have had since civilisation has >existed. The company also >>seeks to take away rights from democratically >elected Governments to >>protect the diversity of their environments and >adequately to protect the >>health needs of their citizens. >> >>If Monsanto obtains the rights to introduce the >terminator technology as >>part of any WTO ruling, it will have the right not >only to take ownership >>of life itself, but to take out a patent on death. >The company says that it >>has encountered no problems in its experiments in >the United States, but >>one needs only to look at the vast acreage of GM >crops on the prairies of >>Arizona where, apart from the Monsanto crops, the >land is sterile. It has >>been soaked in the company's herbicide. It does >not have a weed problem >>because nothing else can grow. When Monsanto is >asked about the impact of >>its actions on bio-diversity, its representatives >throw up their hands and >>say that it is not an issue for them. >> >>The company has manipulated the rules of the >vetting agencies in a way that > >>is technically brilliant, but ethically corrupt >and degrading for humanity. >>We have to be prepared to make a stand against >that. We easily forget, in >>this country and in Europe, that there is no >public demand for GM foods and >>no agricultural need for them. The GM process has >been driven past the >>advisory committees on the basis that it is the >science that will save >>humanity, but it is the science that will turn bad >research into huge >>corporate profits at huge social cost. >> >>As a Parliament, we have been slow to catch up >with the public's >>understanding of the issue. They know, in ways >that we are only beginning >>to acknowledge, that Monsanto's claims about >safety are bogus. The public >>know now that Monsanto's research on milk was >fiddled. They know that the >>inclusion of GM soya with the rest of the soya >crop was the result of >>calculated efforts by Monsanto to discover whether >the public would buy GM >>produce if it were clearly identified. The company >knew that the public >>would not do so, and it manipulated the regulatory >regime in the USA so >>that it did not have to meet the obligation to >identify it. The >>environmental damage falls outside the terms of >the monitoring agencies in >>the USA. >> >>As we debate the relationship between Britain, >Europe, the USA and the >>World Trade Organisation, we must understand that >people have given up >>waiting for a parliamentary lead. There are good >reasons for that: we have >>a 200-year history of the public taking food >safety disputes into our own >>hands. It was about 200 years ago when the first >of Britain's food riots >>was caused by the adulteration of food. Farmers >adulterated flour with >>sawdust and supplied the flour as part of the >workers' wages. The riots >>were about whether anyone had the right to >adulterate food in that way and >>I say with some pride that that was the momentum >behind the Rochdale >>co-operative. The people wanted to be able to >provide food that was safe >>for themselves and their children to eat. The same >is happening now in the >>riots in India. >> >>The "Cremate Monsanto" campaign is not waiting for >a Government lead before >>burning the fields of GM crops that they do not >want. The campaign is being >>led by farmers and villagers who foresee the >destruction of biodiversity in >>pursuit of corporate greed. It is echoed by the >coalition of developing >>world countries who, at the Cartagena biosafety >convention, said that they >>wanted the right to say no to such produce in >order to protect their >>biodiversity. Any international trade agreement >that fails to deal with >>workers' rights or environmental and food >sustainability will not be worth >>adhering to. Social movements in France and Canada >are attempting to take >>direct action to challenge the corporate rights >assumed by today's global >>giants. >> >>We should bear in mind the public movements >staking similar claims in >>relation to genetically modified foods in today's >supermarkets. If the >>United States of America and the food corporations >are to threaten us with >>a trade war and World Trade Organisation rulings >that define our actions as >>illegal, we must reply that the British public >would probably deem a trade >>war to feed safe food to ourselves and our >children a war worth fighting. >> >>Those who want to open up the market without >ethical or safety constraints >>are backing a horse that the public will not bet >on. Rulings may go in >>their favour, but if Monsanto and the USA win the >right to dump unsafe >>foods in United Kingdom markets, we can overrule >that right with a civic >>right to dump those products in the sea or leave >them stockpiled at >>supermarket check-outs. We can assert our right >not to buy something that >>we believe to be endangering our health, the >environmental viability of our >>country and the international sustainability of >relationships in vulnerable >>economies. >> >>....... >> >>Monsanto blasted in UK Parliament Pt 2 >> >>Mr. Norman Baker M.P. >>Monsanto has made itself public enemy No. 1. It >has bulldozed elected >>Governments across the world and forced its >wretched products on to the >>world's population, whether we want them or not. >Monsanto must be brought >>urgently under democratic control. If the WTO >rules permit such activities, >>they are wrong and must be changed. If we are not >careful, Monsanto will >>become the bad news story of the 21st century. The >company must be stopped. >> >>Monsanto has deliberately refused to segregate GM >and non-GM crops in order >>to deny consumer choice--something to which all >hon. Members are committed. >>Monsanto also wishes to introduce GM crops, >regardless of the possible >>environmental consequences. We know from the >Advisory Committee on Releases >>to the Environment, other Government advisory >bodies and from the EU that >>there are significant environmental concerns about >GM crops. Monsanto does >>not want to wait: it wants to steamroller those >crops through and give us >>no alternative. When the crops are planted and >problems arise, Monsanto >>will say, "Never mind, let's deal with it now." >> >>The company wants to undermine alternative sources >of non-GM crops. It is >>trying to stop us buying non-GM soya from Brazil >by buying up Brazil and >>halting alternative supplies from that country. >Monsanto is the antithesis >>of democracy. It is not worried about labelling; >it is trying to persuade >>us that it is not necessary and that it is somehow >a barrier to free trade. >>What nonsense. We are entitled to know what we are >buying. To be fair, the >>Government have accepted that. They have always >been committed to >>labelling. Monsanto does not want labelling: it >wants its products to carry >>as little information as possible. It knows that >if its products are >>labelled accurately--and they are not because most >GM material is not >>labelled under the present regulations--people >will not buy them, and it >>does not want that. >> >>Monsanto has been forcing crops into India and >onto the developing >>countries of the third world. It has intimidated >farmers in the United >>States by hiring private investigators and then >fining farmers when a >>Monsanto seed is found in their soil. >> >>In this country, Monsanto has been condemned by >the Advertising Standards >>Authority, which found it guilty of making >> >> "wrong . . . unproven, misleading and >confusing claims" >> >>in a £1 million campaign. >> >>How does Monsanto manage to do all that? It uses >the revolving door policy, >>and makes sure that personnel from Monsanto and >Government agency advisory >>bodies frequently switch positions. Marcia Hale, >the former adviser to the >>US President, is now the director of international >government affairs for >>the Monsanto corporation. Michael Kantnor, the >former secretary to the US >>department of commerce is now a member of the >Monsanto corporation board. >>Josh King, the former director of production for >White House events, is now >>the director of global communications for the >Monsanto corporation. >>Margaret Miller, the former chemical laboratory >supervisor for Monsanto, is >>now the deputy director of the new animal drug >evaluation office in the US >>Food and Drug Administration. We have seen >confidential European Union >>documents that have been passed to Monsanto by Dr. >Nick Weber of the FDA, >>and a former Monsanto analyst. >> >>Monsanto is abusing and twisting the system and >getting from it as much as >>it can. It is getting the Food and Drug >Administration on board and it is >>getting the US to fight its corner. I am in favour >of free trade and the >>World Trade Organisation, but I am not in favour >of one company so using >>its muscle and contriving matters for its own ends >that the opportunity for >>consumer choice and Government decisions by >democratic bodies is >>effectively removed. >> >>Dan Verakis, the public relations manager for >Monsanto in the UK, has said, >>"Everybody here hates us." I have to tell Monsanto >that I hate it. It is >>the antithesis of democracy and it needs to be >stopped. >> >>__________________________________________________ >_______ >>Richard Wolfson, PhD >>Consumer Right to Know Campaign, >>for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term >>Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, >>500 Wilbrod Street >>Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 >>tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 >>email: rwolfson@concentric.net >> >>Our website, http://www.natural- >law.ca/genetic/geindex.html >>contains more information on genetic engineering >as well as previous >>genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee >to genetic engineering >>news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and >mailed to the above >>address. Or see website for details. >>__________________________________________________ >________ >>__________________________________________________ >________ >> >> >> > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > Return-Path: > Received: from envirolink.org >(manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) > by mail.frontiercoop.com (Post.Office >MTA v3.1.2 > release (PO205-101c) ID# 0- >37991U200L2S100) with ESMTP id AAA737 > for ; > Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:20:57 -0600 > Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id >QAA28227; > Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:14:53 -0500 (EST) > Received: from unix.infoserve.net >(0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) > by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id >QAA27797 > for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 >16:13:06 -0500 (EST) > Received: from mroboz (d159.infoserve.net >[199.175.157.159]) > by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP >id NAA14794; > Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:18:42 -0800 (PST) > Message-ID: ><001d01be763b$9acc9780$9f9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.ne >t> > From: "Michael Roboz" > To: "curtis lange" > Cc: > Subject: Fw: OFF/ debunking GE/ GEN3-24 UK >Parliament, plus > Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:15:47 -0800 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE >V4.72.3110.3 > Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by >CREN > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted- >printable by envirolink.org id QAA28227 > > Erica N.C. Renaud Organic Research Farm, Research Specialist Frontier Natural Products Co-op (319) 227 - 7996 ext.1373 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 20:35:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17698 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:35:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA24720; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:21:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24611 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:20:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.169] ("port 2049"@[148.233.186.169]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F96000IU22RJY@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:56:57 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:03:01 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: [cg] What's Up in Biotechnology, Genetic Engineering In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <36F91272.B3C6996D@digisys.net> <199932321434935705@ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 409 >There's a lot of energy stored in the ground. This is one of a 100 >reasons why I've been saying that horn clay is the greatest discovery >ever made in biodynamic agriculture. Others will come to realize that >this is true. The second greatest discovery is #800. Be sure to bury >some horn basalt horns NOW so you can make it next year. I will send >you some of my supply if you want to try it this year. Let me know. > >Also, don't forget to bury some horn sulfur and horn copper (sulfate). >You might also try some horn sodium molybdate but I can't tell you why >now. Use different holes if you can and line them with plenty of BD >compost. For a little extra kick on the summer sulfur, sprinkle a >little (as in small amount) of 508 leaves on the ground on top of the >filled hole. That will have quite an effect. You might want to try one >hole with horn sulfur w/o 508 and one with 508 and check it >radionically. Don't try this with 501 though unless you are going to > > >Dear Greg, > >I'm taking off for a weekend of workshops in Kansas. You can bet I will >mention horn clay. > >As for Courtney, he's really not too conservative and will do the horn clay >work I believe. He may need an impetus, as I did. As for some of the more >exotic stuff he'll probably pass, though I don't know this. Courtney, like >myself, is a busy guy, and that's a factor. > >Since I supply Courtney with barrel compost, and I ALWAYS put a sprinkling >of equisetum on the top of every barrel, he'll get some of my type BC. It's >always been a little different than his, but enough better in quality that >he has always taken all I could produce. He's got great storage facilities, >which I haven't. > >Best, > >Hugh Lovel >Blairsville, Georgia > >"No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." >--Walter Russell Dear Hugh: Can you give us the specifics about making this new preps and what is their presumed action and aplication strategy. I can wait until you came back and have nice and safe trip. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 20:42:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17785 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:42:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA25958; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (ecpport2.ecopost.com.au [203.28.64.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25590 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:27:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (kmidc65-52.ecopost.com.au [203.28.65.52]) by ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12257 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:30:34 +1100 Message-ID: <004c01be7730$790bbae0$33411ccb@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "D & S Chamberlain" To: "BDNOW" Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:28:04 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 410 Pam; Keep it moist if you want compost!! Here where we live in Australia we tend to have long dry spells and if we let the compost dry out it just sits there and does nothing. It also is difficult to remoisten once it does dry and as you will realise, quite often you will not have the water to put on the heap. So keep it moist, dive your hand in regularly and feel it. Cow manure in lumps and dry is particularly hard to remoisten. Keep those finger nails dirty David -----Original Message----- From: Pam DeTray To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Friday, 26 March, 1999 6:06 AM Subject: BD compost in arid climate > Is anyone else on this list working in an arid climate like mine (annual >precip 7") or do you have experience in this? > My helper and I are building a large compost windrow of old and new cow >and bull manure, last season's dead flowers, which we're adding in layers as >the manure comes in, kitchen scraps, and whatever else we can get our hands >on. > My helper questioned the wisdom of watering the dead stuff once it's on >the pile. He feels the moisture in the new manure is sufficient. I go by the >"wrung-out sponge" theory of how wet is wet enough, and want to water each >layer of dead stuff before adding manure on top. > I've seen what can happen in this climate with piles that didn't get >enough moisture. Some things can remain intact for years in this climate. > I'm not using a shredder, just putting the dead growth (silver king, >yarrows, daylilies, iris, etc.) in alternate layers with the manure. >However, it's been a long time since I worked with cow manure, so I don't >have personal experience to go on here. > The base of the pile has a lot of tarragon and other larger dried or >partially dried stuff, including some old woody stuff. On top of that is >some aged manure. The next layer is dried flower/foliage, and he came in >with the next manure load before I could get that watered to my >satisfaction. That manure layer didn't cover, but kind of filled in around >it, and that's where I was watering when my helper questioned the wisdom of >watering. I'm not sure there's enough moisture in there, but on top of that >is a load of really wet manure. > My helper doesn't have much gardening experience, but he's been reading >my BD books for several weeks and learns quickly. > I would really appreciate any advice! (Yes, I'm also trying to listen to >the deva, but want to hear from you as well.) Do any books exist on working >with BD in an arid climate? > >Thanks! > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 23:52:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20894 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:52:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17116; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16905 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:37:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.77] (pm3shep3-163-116.intrepid.net [209.190.163.116]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29335 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:40:25 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:43:05 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Unusual Fruits Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 411 >From John Spencer >>Margaret: >> I worked at the NCGR in Corvallis for a year and Joseph Postman is a >>friend. This collaboration (as coverd in the release below) is something >>that I've encouraged myself, to get the government to work with private >>individuals more. In the past, the collected material was mainly available >>only to university and government researchers. Thanks to efforts of people >>like Joseph Postman, the Corvallis NCGR curator Dr. Kim Hummer (a woman) and >>others, the system now works a lot more with private people, both in making >>material avialable to them, and in accepting plant material from private >>collections. There are a lot of amateurs out there with wonderful >>collections that were being lost when the individuals died. This is one way >>to help preserve that material. >>Believe me, whatever one branch of the government is doing with companies >>like Monsanto, this work will help insure that there is still good plant >>material to work with when the GE dust settles. >>-Lon Rombough >>Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, more, at http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom >> >>---------- >>>From: margaret lauterbach >>>To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU >>>Subject: Re: FW: Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks >>>Date: Thu, Mar 25, 1999, 10:05 AM >>> >> >>>At 09:18 AM 3/25/99 -0800, you wrote: >>>>---------- >>>>From: "ARS News Service" >>>>To: "ARS News List" >>>>Subject: Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks >>>>Date: Thu, Mar 25, 1999, 6:47 AM >>>> >>>> >>>>STORY LEAD: >>>>Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks >>>> >>>>----------- >>>>ARS News Service >>>>Agricultural Research Service, USDA >>>>March 25, 1999 >>>>Jim De Quattro, (301) 504-1626, jdequattro@asrr.arsusda.gov >>>>----------- >>>> >>>>A budding cooperative project of researchers, organic growers and others >>>>that begins this week could help replenish the nation's seed banks. More >>>>important, it could create market opportunities for new public and heirloom >>>>crop varieties. >>>> >>>>The Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific agency, >maintains >>>>the National Plant Germplasm System. Its 27 repositories now hold about >>>>437,000 specimens of germplasm--seed, cuttings and other tissue. Thousands >>>>of accessions are added each year. Researchers worldwide use the germplasm >>>>to breed crops with improved yield, nutrition, resistance to pests, disease >>>>and environmental stress or other traits. >>>> >>>>ARS is cooperating with the Farmer Cooperative Genome Project to test a new >>>>way for organic growers, farmer cooperatives and small seed companies to >tap >>>>into this storehouse of genetic diversity. FCGP members will grow fresh >>>>supplies of germplasm, following NPGS guidelines. These ensure, for >example, >>>>that regenerated seed is true to type--not contaminated by pollen from >>>>nearby crops of the same species. >>>> >>>>FCGP members will also develop marketable new varieties from germplasm they >>>>may never have known about otherwise. For example, an ARS repository in >>>>Corvallis, Ore., has more than 400 heirloom pear varieties. In Pullman, >>>>Wash., ARS maintains more than 200 lines of garlic. These represent most of >>>>the crop's genetic diversity. Only a few varieties account for nearly all >>>>commercial production, according to horticulturist Richard Hannan. He's >>>>based at ARS' Western Regional Plant Introduction Station in Pullman. >>>> >>>>On March 27-28 in Salem, Ore., Hannan, Corvallis ARS plant pathologist >>>>Joseph Postman and other scientists are among scheduled panelists at FCGP's >>>>first general meeting. Other plants with FCGP potential include heirloom >>>>varieties and wild relatives of tomato, lettuce, bean, broccoli, Egyptian >>>>onion, radish, blue and other Native American corn, blackberry, strawberry, >>>>Turkish grain legumes and little-known herbs such as black cumin. >>>> >>>>More than 200 small family farmers, organic farmers, seed producers, >>>>breeders and others will participate in FCGP, according to J.J. Haapala. He >>>>is research and education director of Oregon Tilth, a growers' group in >>>>Salem that certifies organic growers and processors. Haapala administers a >>>>USDA Fund for Rural America grant to the FCGP. >>>> >>>>---------- >>>>Scientific contact: Richard M. Hannan, ARS Western Regional Plant >>>>Introduction Station, Pullman, Wash., phone (509) 335-1502, fax (509) >>>>335-6654, hannan@wsunix.wsu.edu. >>> >>>I have a big problem with this post. On the one hand, a division of USDA is >>>working with seed savers, and on the other hand, USDA is a partner in the >>>seed terminator business. Does the right hand know what the left hand is >>>doing? This counter-productivity has got to be costly to taxpayers, at the >>>very least. Margaret >>> >> >> > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 26 06:24:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA25547 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:24:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA04552; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:11:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA29841 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 04:15:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.169] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.169]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F9600L10WG6CA@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:53:11 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:59:20 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate In-reply-to: <199903251802.NAA24212@envirolink.org> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id EAA29842 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 412 > Is anyone else on this list working in an arid climate like mine (annual >precip 7") or do you have experience in this? > My helper and I are building a large compost windrow of old and new cow >and bull manure, last season's dead flowers, which we're adding in layers as >the manure comes in, kitchen scraps, and whatever else we can get our hands >on. > My helper questioned the wisdom of watering the dead stuff once it's on >the pile. He feels the moisture in the new manure is sufficient. I go by the >"wrung-out sponge" theory of how wet is wet enough, and want to water each >layer of dead stuff before adding manure on top. > I've seen what can happen in this climate with piles that didn't get >enough moisture. Some things can remain intact for years in this climate. > I'm not using a shredder, just putting the dead growth (silver king, >yarrows, daylilies, iris, etc.) in alternate layers with the manure. >However, it's been a long time since I worked with cow manure, so I don't >have personal experience to go on here. > The base of the pile has a lot of tarragon and other larger dried or >partially dried stuff, including some old woody stuff. On top of that is >some aged manure. The next layer is dried flower/foliage, and he came in >with the next manure load before I could get that watered to my >satisfaction. That manure layer didn't cover, but kind of filled in around >it, and that's where I was watering when my helper questioned the wisdom of >watering. I'm not sure there's enough moisture in there, but on top of that >is a load of really wet manure. > My helper doesn't have much gardening experience, but he's been reading >my BD books for several weeks and learns quickly. > I would really appreciate any advice! (Yes, I'm also trying to listen to >the deva, but want to hear from you as well.) Do any books exist on working >with BD in an arid climate? > >Thanks! Hi Pam: In a hot and arid climate, I guess you need to water it throughly when you build the pile and then re-water it as need it when you move the pile (if you do move it). Here I always cover loosely my piles to cut down on evaporation during the dry season and nutrients running out during the rainy season, I do it with nylon but you can do it also with natural stuff such as clay, large leafs (here some people use banana leafs), etc. The nylon that I use also promotes the decay of the outer parts of the material, by keeping it moistier (due to evaporation and condensation) than the inner parts, so there is less need to move the piles. Another good thing about the plastic-nylon is that it keeps a microenvironment where all sorts of creatures live. I have lizards, toads and all sort of arachnids and insects living bellow the nylon covers, even now (dry season) that such life has gone dormant elsewhere. I have mean temperatures of 90 F year round, 80 % humidity in the rainy season (july-october), 20 % humidity in the dry season and, I am able to get finished compost in about three months using manures, grinded greens and browns and plenty of water. Hope this helps. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 26 09:49:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA03006 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:49:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA20376; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:34:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20185 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:33:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A65211@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 9:36:01 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 26 Mar 99 09:35:56 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 26 Mar 99 09:35:43 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:35:39 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Organic Ag and the Many Hands of THE GOVERNMENT Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 413 >I have a big problem with this post. On the one hand, a division >of USDA is working with seed savers, and on the other hand, USDA >is a partner in the seed terminator business. Does the right hand >know what the left hand is doing? This counter-productivity has >got to be costly to taxpayers, at the very least. Margaret Hi Margaret and Everybody Else, I want to comment on the above and the below by sharing with you my experience earlier this week in a visit to the USDA in Wash. DC. I too am working on a Fund for Rural America (FRA) grant (mentioned at the bottom of the post below), and before I go on, I must tell you that the FRA will no longer exist as soon as the current monies are depleted, which is a HUGE shame. Re Margaret's comment above, the gov't would seem to be rather schitzophrenic. This means, however, that it is difficult to support all the conspiracty theories that fly around involving THE GOVERNMENT and it also means that it can be blinkenflip hard to coordinate good activities as well. I work primarily with the ERS (Economic Research Service), but since this a project on organic agriculture, it naturally involves several other branches. There are a couple of people in the FAS (Food and Agriculture Service) doing good work collecting info on organics both here and abroad, and it is the AMS (Agricultural Marketing Service) that is in charge of writing the new National Standards for organics, which has taken on new significance since the European Union is threatening with a June 30 deadline not to accept organic imports from the US that are not accredited by the gov't (that's the short version of a long and complicated story). Anyway, until this recent meeting in DC, there was virtually no communication among these different branches letting the one hand know what the other was doing, and in fact they had me researching export information for the AMS which the AMS was already WELL aware of. This has been very frustrating for me to be in the middle of this. Most people think that the US Gov't works with a unified voice, but I can tell you that is FAR from true. In fact, the FAS and the AMS are in a completely different building from the ERS and one needs to take the metro to get between the two. That certainly limits coincidental meetings at the water cooler.... Besides the theme of gov't working in a splintered and sometimes contradictory way, I want to report back to you on the state of National Standards. Many of you were involved in the HUGE outpouring of protest the last time these standards were presented (since they tried to include sewage sludge, irradiation, and GMOs in the definition of organic) and may harbor resentments toward the people that were responsible for that disaster. But I want to tell you how impressed I was with Keith Jones, the new director of AMS, and how hopeful I feel about the next standards proposal which is expected by the end of the summer. Keith comes accross as a straight talking, straight shooting Texan who certainly is rooted in fundamental economic concepts (and therefore can talk the language of the business folks) but he's also a former rancher (not just a pasty soft bureaucrat) and seems genuinely concerned with the fundamental tennents of organic agriculture as most people in the organic ag community understand it. He's also committed to drafting rules that will allow trade with the EU. Now, some of you might call me a Polyanna, but I just wanted to tell you that the meeting was very reassuring to me. But this doesn't, of course, mean that THE GOVERNMENT is committed to organic ag and will hereafter have a coordinated policy toward it. Quite the contrary! I expect that it will continue in it's usual push me-pull me fashion with one hand feeding the Monsonto's and the other hand drafting Farm Bills with sustainablility, soil conservation, wetland protection, and perhaps organic ag clauses. It's just the nature of the beast! Regards, Anita > >From John Spencer > > >>Margaret: > >> I worked at the NCGR in Corvallis for a year and Joseph Postman is a > >>friend. This collaboration (as coverd in the release below) is something > >>that I've encouraged myself, to get the government to work with private > >>individuals more. In the past, the collected material was mainly available > >>only to university and government researchers. Thanks to efforts of people > >>like Joseph Postman, the Corvallis NCGR curator Dr. Kim Hummer (a woman) and > >>others, the system now works a lot more with private people, both in making > >>material avialable to them, and in accepting plant material from private > >>collections. There are a lot of amateurs out there with wonderful > >>collections that were being lost when the individuals died. This is one way > >>to help preserve that material. > >>Believe me, whatever one branch of the government is doing with companies > >>like Monsanto, this work will help insure that there is still good plant > >>material to work with when the GE dust settles. > >>-Lon Rombough > >>Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, more, at http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom > >> > >>---------- > >>>From: margaret lauterbach > >>>To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU > >>>Subject: Re: FW: Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks > >>>Date: Thu, Mar 25, 1999, 10:05 AM > >>> > >> > >>>At 09:18 AM 3/25/99 -0800, you wrote: > >>>>---------- > >>>>From: "ARS News Service" > >>>>To: "ARS News List" > >>>>Subject: Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks > >>>>Date: Thu, Mar 25, 1999, 6:47 AM > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>STORY LEAD: > >>>>Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks > >>>> > >>>>----------- > >>>>ARS News Service > >>>>Agricultural Research Service, USDA > >>>>March 25, 1999 > >>>>Jim De Quattro, (301) 504-1626, jdequattro@asrr.arsusda.gov > >>>>----------- > >>>> > >>>>A budding cooperative project of researchers, organic growers and others > >>>>that begins this week could help replenish the nation's seed banks. More > >>>>important, it could create market opportunities for new public and > heirloom > >>>>crop varieties. > >>>> > >>>>The Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific agency, > >maintains > >>>>the National Plant Germplasm System. Its 27 repositories now hold about > >>>>437,000 specimens of germplasm--seed, cuttings and other tissue. Thousands > >>>>of accessions are added each year. Researchers worldwide use the germplasm > >>>>to breed crops with improved yield, nutrition, resistance to pests, > disease > >>>>and environmental stress or other traits. > >>>> > >>>>ARS is cooperating with the Farmer Cooperative Genome Project to test a > new > >>>>way for organic growers, farmer cooperatives and small seed companies to > >tap > >>>>into this storehouse of genetic diversity. FCGP members will grow fresh > >>>>supplies of germplasm, following NPGS guidelines. These ensure, for > >example, > >>>>that regenerated seed is true to type--not contaminated by pollen from > >>>>nearby crops of the same species. > >>>> > >>>>FCGP members will also develop marketable new varieties from germplasm > they > >>>>may never have known about otherwise. For example, an ARS repository in > >>>>Corvallis, Ore., has more than 400 heirloom pear varieties. In Pullman, > >>>>Wash., ARS maintains more than 200 lines of garlic. These represent > most of > >>>>the crop's genetic diversity. Only a few varieties account for nearly all > >>>>commercial production, according to horticulturist Richard Hannan. He's > >>>>based at ARS' Western Regional Plant Introduction Station in Pullman. > >>>> > >>>>On March 27-28 in Salem, Ore., Hannan, Corvallis ARS plant pathologist > >>>>Joseph Postman and other scientists are among scheduled panelists at > FCGP's > >>>>first general meeting. Other plants with FCGP potential include heirloom > >>>>varieties and wild relatives of tomato, lettuce, bean, broccoli, Egyptian > >>>>onion, radish, blue and other Native American corn, blackberry, > strawberry, > >>>>Turkish grain legumes and little-known herbs such as black cumin. > >>>> > >>>>More than 200 small family farmers, organic farmers, seed producers, > >>>>breeders and others will participate in FCGP, according to J.J. > Haapala. He > >>>>is research and education director of Oregon Tilth, a growers' group in > >>>>Salem that certifies organic growers and processors. Haapala administers a > >>>>USDA Fund for Rural America grant to the FCGP. > >>>> > >>>>---------- > >>>>Scientific contact: Richard M. Hannan, ARS Western Regional Plant > >>>>Introduction Station, Pullman, Wash., phone (509) 335-1502, fax (509) > >>>>335-6654, hannan@wsunix.wsu.edu. > >>> > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 26 13:02:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08693 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:02:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18501; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:51:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18319 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:50:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07679 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip-21-131.phx.primenet.com(206.165.21.131), claiming to be "primenet.com" via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd007639; Fri Mar 26 11:56:19 1999 Message-ID: <36FBC967.FA5B89A3@primenet.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:52:39 -0700 From: Jim & Jenni Muir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {TLC;RETAIL} (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: [cg] What's Up in Biotechnology, Genetic Engineering References: <199932321434935705@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 414 Hugh, I'd like to make some horn clay, and horn basalt. I've ordered horns from JPI. Can I bury them both now? I'd like to buy some horn basalt from you. Would you also sell some horn clay? What have been your experiences using them thus far? Jim Muir swog@primenet.com Glendale, Arizona Hugh Lovel wrote: > This is one of a 100 reasons why I've been saying that horn clay is the greatest discovery ever made in biodynamic agriculture. The second greatest discovery is #800. Be sure to bury some horn basalt horns NOW so you can make it next year. I will send you some of my supply if you want to try it this year. Let me know. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 26 17:00:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14495 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:00:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA23288; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:48:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from latina.latino.net.co (latina.latino.net.co [207.16.109.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA22872 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:45:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from 1 (acc14195.latino.web.co [206.114.24.195]) by latina.latino.net.co (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA19039 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:48:06 -0500 (GMT-0500) From: " bachmans" To: Subject: unsuscribe Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:49:50 -0500 Message-ID: <01be77d2$93872e20$c31872ce@1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE77A8.AAB12620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 415 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE77A8.AAB12620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable UNSUSCRIBE ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE77A8.AAB12620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE77A8.AAB12620-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 00:18:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21673 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:18:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA03630; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net (eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net [207.109.240.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA03297 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:02:26 -0500 (EST) From: jrei@uswest.net Received: (qmail 24350 invoked by alias); 27 Mar 1999 05:05:25 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-bdnow@envirolink.org@fixme Received: (qmail 24338 invoked by uid 0); 27 Mar 1999 05:05:24 -0000 Received: from dialupc96.eugn.uswest.net (HELO pop.eugn.uswest.net) (209.180.177.96) by eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 1999 05:05:24 -0000 Message-ID: <36FC65DE.DD8507B@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:00:15 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , "OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU" Subject: Plant patent lawsuit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 416 In today's (March 26,1999) Capital Press it was reported that a legal challenge to the fundamental premise of the biotech industry, the patentability of modified plants, is shaping up. Stemming from a lawsuit filed by Pioneer Hi-Bred against a Iowa seed merchant, U.S. District Judge Donald E. O'Brian has cleared that way for a Washington Federal Appeals Court to take up the idea that Congress never meant for major food crops to be patented. The Wall Street Journal reports that the courts action indicates that the patentability of man-made plants remains legally untested. Oral arguments could began this spring. This came as a bit of a surprised to me when I read it today. This is an opportunity for groups that are out there, that are opposed to the genetic engineering of plants, to file friend-of-the-court briefs. I do not have access to the on-line version of the Wall Street Journal so someone else will have to get the details. This court decision could have watershed ramifications of the future of plant genetic engineering. Joel@Territorial Seed Company From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 08:54:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26175 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:54:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA23713; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:42:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23613 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:40:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp15.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.115]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id HAA16385 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:41:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <003501be7857$511d11a0$734b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Celtic Salt vs. RealSalt Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:40:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 417 Some time ago I discovered a wonderful salt/mineral lick for the cows, thanks to Bob Johnson, dairy expert extraordinaire, who left samples of big red salty rocks when delivering kelp to the farm. (and yes, I tasted it after he left) Seems this natural beautiful red rock comes from Utah. The cows love it, and in fact, it is also available in a table version (for those of us who prefer NOT sharing with the cows:-)). It is also reasonable in price. >From Redmond folks: "As far as comparing RealSalt to Celtic Salt: I believe Celtic Salt is a good sea salt, however the price difference between RealSalt and Celtic is significant. RealSalt has about 30 different trace minerals and comes from and ancient sea deposit that has been kept from the pollutants in the modern seas and oceans (where most sea salts are processed from). RealSalt comes in 2 sizes, one is a 9oz. shaker for $2.99 and also a 2 pound bag for $5.10, with a minimum shipping and handling charge of $6.00. Please let us know your address and we will send samples along with info." >From the label: "RealSalt comes from an underground natural mineral rock salt deposit. Millions of years ago near what is now known as the town of Redmond, Utah, there existed a supersaturated body of seawater. It congealed to form a great vein of rock salt & captured within the crystallization over thirty wholesome trace minerals. Since it is an all natural product, the analysis and color will vary. Below is a summary of analysis taken over the past several years. Some clumping will occur due to the absence of chemicals: Sodium Chloride - 98.32% Calcium - .40% Potassium - .12% Sulphur - .11% Magnesium - .10% Iron - .06% Phosphorus - .05% Iodine - .002% Manganese - .0015% Copper - .001% Zinc - .0006% plus other trace minerals Redmond Minerals, Inc., Redmond, UT 84654 1-(800) 367-7258 more at: http://www.thinkerworks.com/realsalt/Default.htm From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 09:08:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26271 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA24452; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:57:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24252 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:54:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp254.cy-net.net [208.21.195.63]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20201 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:57:11 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7825.EC6DE260@FLYLO>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:46:28 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7825.EC6DE260@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: Organic and livestock Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:45:01 -0600 Encoding: 44 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 418 Thanks, Anita for an uplifting post on organic certification program. (Happy to see that a Texan doesn' t have his hand in the Chem Ag till.) I was receiving the bulletins as they modified and ratified the NOSB regs, but have not received anything in over a year or so. Recently they sent out a flier that they'd like to contact by e-mail to save postage and I agreed, so there may be some snags in the changeover. I've been certified Organic several years ago, (market vegetables) but decided not to pay for the licensing again until they settle all the dust on what is or what is not OG. The way I understand it, as soon as it quit being a State regulated dept and went National is where the major mess started. (I'm sure it's more detailed than that, but I'm not into details this morning!) Currently working to supply bulk milk to a cheese processor and we're planting our hay crop to assure that at least the goats get organically grown roughages if not the grain itself. The problem is the kind of hay we need is hybridized (haygrazer) and I have no way of knowing if it's been genetically altered or not. I just have to assume that the 'new and improved' versions of sudan/sorghum crosses are going to have implants. So I'm leaning toward the older original seed. Curious isn't it that the newer named varieties are the worst for developing prussic acid poisoning when stressed? (And tell me ONE hayfield in Texas that doesn't see some stress in the growth cycle?) Ahhh, I see, more money in the coffers when we pay for lab tests on plant material that's prone to poison the livestock. OH, the meeting with the processor last Saturday went well. I don't know bulk milk prices but he's offering .34 per pound for summer milk and .44 for winter. He considers Dec through March as Winter Milk, so goat folk can probably get early kids and a little more money for their efforts as well. MOST processors require a minimum of 80 gallons per week, and very few small goat dairies can produce that, this one has no bottom limit. If you can haul it, he'll buy it. he and a dairy inspector will approve the facilities before and on occasion at random to make sure the milk is being produced cleanly and safely, but otherwise, no Grade A standards apply. A bulk chiller enclosed away from the milk parlor, a cement pad for the chiller room, and food grade buckets to haul the milk in are his main requirements. (This is excellent news for those of us who can't afford the $100,000 for a Grade A dairy.) Interesting that regulations for goats must meet the same barn, milk parlor, etc, specifications as for cow dairies. This is a huge step in the right direction for those (like myself) small producers who wish to sell milk but can't see the way to build all new facilities Grade A. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 12:30:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28113 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:30:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA08868; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:18:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08725 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:16:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp210.cy-net.net [208.21.195.19]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04483 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:19:08 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7842.1D3156E0@FLYLO>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:08:16 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7842.1D3156E0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: Don't open List.Doc files!! Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:08:06 -0600 Encoding: 75 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 419 If you're not on the DataFellows weekly virus update alerts you should be! So far everything they've announced has happened. (Sorrowfully), but take a look at this Melissa virus that will probably set everyone to talking MORE than happy99 did. ********************* A new computer virus spread globally within hours of discovery Melissa virus infects Word documents, e-mails itself to other users Espoo, Finland, March 27, 1999. - DataFellows, one of the world's leading developers of anti-virus and encryption software, is warning computer users about a virulent and widespread computer virus found on Friday, March 26, 1999. This virus has spread all over the globe within just hours of initial discovery, apparently spreading faster than any other virus before. The virus, known as W97M/Melissa, spreads by e-mailing itself automatically from one user to another. The virus activates by modifying the user's documents, inserting comments from the TV series "The Simpsons". Even worse, it can send out confidential information from the computer without the user's noticing it. The virus was discovered late Friday evening European time, early morning US time. For this reason, the virus spread in the USA during Friday. Many multinational companies reported widespread infections, including Microsoft and Intel. Microsoft closed down their whole e-mail system to prevent a further spreading of the virus. The number of infected computers so far is estimated at tens of thousands, and rising quickly. "We've never seen a virus spread so rapidly," comments Mikko Hypponen, DataFellows' Manager of Anti-Virus Research. "We've seen a handful of viruses that distribute themselves automatically over e-mail, but not one of them has been as successful as Melissa in the real world." W97M/Melissa was initially distributed in an Internet discussion group called alt.sex. The virus was sent in a file called LIST.DOC, which contained passwords for X-rated websites. When users downloaded the file and opened it in Microsoft Word, a macro inside the document executed and e-mailed the LIST.DOC file to 50 people listed in the e-mail alias file of the user. The e-mail looked as follows: From: (name of infected user) Subject: Important Message From (name of infected user) To: (50 names from alias list) Here is that document you asked for ... don't show anyone else ;-) Attachment: LIST.DOC Most recipients are likely to open such a file, as it usually comes from someone they know. After sending itself out, the virus continues to infect other Word documents which the user accesses, i.e. it is not restricted to the initial LIST.DOC file. Eventually, these infected files can end up being mailed to other users as well. This can be potentially disastrous, as a user might inadvertently send out confidential data to outsiders. The virus activates if it is executed when the minutes of the hour match the day of the month - for example 18:27 on the 27th day of a month. At this time the virus will insert the following phrase into the current document which the user has open in Word: "Twenty-two points, plus triple-word-score, plus fifty points for using all my letters. Game's over. I'm outta here". This text, as well as the alias name of the virus author, "Kwyjibo", are references to the popular "Simpsons" cartoon TV series. "The virus won't spread much during this weekend. We will see the real problem on Monday morning," continues Hypponen. "When a big company gets infected, their e-mail servers are seriously slowed down and might even crash, as computers start e-mailing large document attachments without the sender realising it." W97M/Melissa works with Microsoft Word 97, Microsoft Word 2000 and Microsoft Outlook e-mail client. It can infect both Windows and Macintosh users. If the infected machine does not have Outlook or Internet access at all, the virus will continue to spread locally within the documents the user accesses. Data Fellows provides a free solution to the W97M/Melissa virus problem. Evaluation copies of the F-Secure Anti-Virus toolkit as well as an update to detect and disinfect the virus are available from the company's website at http://www.DataFellows.com NOTE: This site is for the US Data Fellows, open it and go to the 2nd web page to see the Euro version, which is where most of the virus' originate. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 14:50:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29565 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:50:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19693; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:38:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (smtp1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19347 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:35:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903271935.OAA19347@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 12917 invoked from network); 27 Mar 1999 12:38:59 -0700 Received: from ts2-04.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO ?209.161.18.155?) (209.161.18.155) by smtp2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 1999 12:38:59 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:38:06 -0700 Subject: Re: arid climate, salt From: "Pam DeTray" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 420 Thanks for all the replies on my queries. The things we learn on this list! Maybe someday I'll be able to contribute as much as I receive. Blessings on every garden this year! ----------------------------------------------------- Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 14:50:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29573 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:50:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19763; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:39:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (smtp1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19638 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:38:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903271938.OAA19638@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 13339 invoked from network); 27 Mar 1999 12:41:25 -0700 Received: from ts2-04.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO ?209.161.18.155?) (209.161.18.155) by smtp2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 1999 12:41:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:40:33 -0700 Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate From: "Pam DeTray" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 421 David, do you add water when you're putting in wet manure? Do you actually water that layer, as well as the dry stuff? ----------------------------------------------------- Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net Fingernails dirty, cuticles broken and bleeding. ---------- >From: "D & S Chamberlain" >To: "BDNOW" >Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate >Date: Thu, Mar 25, 1999, 7:28 PM > >Pam; Keep it moist if you want compost!! Here where we live in Australia we >tend to have long dry spells and if we let the compost dry out it just sits >there and does nothing. It also is difficult to remoisten once it does dry >and as you will realise, quite often you will not have the water to put on >the heap. So keep it moist, dive your hand in regularly and feel it. Cow >manure in lumps and dry is particularly hard to remoisten. > >Keep those finger nails dirty >David From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 14:55:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29680 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:55:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20224; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:44:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (smtp1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA20143 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:44:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903271944.OAA20143@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 14177 invoked from network); 27 Mar 1999 12:47:16 -0700 Received: from ts2-04.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO ?209.161.18.155?) (209.161.18.155) by smtp2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 1999 12:47:16 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:46:23 -0700 Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate From: "Pam DeTray" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 422 Guillermo, if you had a lower humidity, would you ever peel back the nylon and add water? Is it ever okay to water a pile after the preps are in? I gave it a good watering yesterday, but I may run a pipe down into it and try to get more water in several places. For the skin, we have a truckful of leaves, held in place by wetting them down and adding some sticks over top. Then a tarp over all of that. Our late summer temperatures can go into the 90's. ----------------------------------------------------- Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net ---------- >From: Guillermo Romero > >I have mean temperatures of 90 F year round, 80 % humidity in the rainy >season (july-october), 20 % humidity in the dry season and, I am able to >get finished compost in about three months using manures, grinded greens >and browns and plenty of water. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 18:37:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA02262 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA09843; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:25:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09576 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp197.cy-net.net [208.21.195.6]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05363 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:25:28 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7875.1C82E640@FLYLO>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:13:19 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7875.1C82E640@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: some kind of nettles? Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:12:42 -0600 Encoding: 12 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 423 I have a very obnoxious weed growing around my goat barns. It has a tiny serrate - toothed leaf (like cilantro) and leaves grow opposite each other. Stem is flat hexagonal like true mints, so I'd LIKE to believe this is some kind of nettle, but the ag guy couldn't identify it. Grows about 2 ft tall or better. If you brush against it, it's wildly stinging, tho. We have bullnettle here, (not a true nettle) and this is nothing like that either. Any clues? Because of all the wonders of nettles I've been reading, I'm tempted to treat it like nettle, but would sure like to know what it is I'm dealing with first. It burns out when hot summertime comes along. Goats won't eat it. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 18:37:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA02273 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:37:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA09919; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09577 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp197.cy-net.net [208.21.195.6]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05347 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:25:25 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7875.1AE87020@FLYLO>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:13:17 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7875.1AE87020@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: Who's site is Sacred Soil? Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:06:24 -0600 Encoding: 11 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 424 Who's garden / farm is Sacred Soil? http://www.sacred-soil.com/ I have the site bookmarked and was just taking a tour. The BD Preps pages are very informative. The explanation of how each preparation is made is easy to understand, but alas, no reason is given about what the preparation should be used for. Night and Greenhouse links take the viewer to those pages, but the subject lines aren't linked to anything. Am I missing something here? thanks martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 22:17:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04308 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:17:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA29179; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:05:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA28964 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:02:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.186] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.186]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.01.13.19.49.p4) with ESMTP id <0F9A001SWAXB1W@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:58:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:03:54 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate In-reply-to: <199903271944.OAA20143@envirolink.org> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id WAA28970 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 425 >Guillermo, if you had a lower humidity, would you ever peel back the nylon >and add water? Is it ever okay to water a pile after the preps are in? >I gave it a good watering yesterday, but I may run a pipe down into it and >try to get more water in several places. >For the skin, we have a truckful of leaves, held in place by wetting them >down and adding some sticks over top. Then a tarp over all of that. >Our late summer temperatures can go into the 90's. > >----------------------------------------------------- >Pam DeTray >psdetray@cyberhighway.net Hi Pam: Once I put the nylon cover down, I really do not need to water the piles again in the three months that it takes here to have finished compost. My relative humidity of 15-20 % during the dry season, it is on the dry side and the sun is very strong, if I leave the piles uncovered they would dry quickly. Let me make clear that my covers are not air tight, they are oversized about two meters (in the whole perimeter) and I just put some rocks here and there to keep the covers from being blown away. I have found that those two meters are enough to keep moisture inside and to allow enough air and "life" circulating. I do not think that the dry leaves will do the job of keeping moisture from evaporating from the piles without a waterproof tarp. I really do not know if the Nylon or the Tarp, would interphere with the astral forces. Any idea, anyone? If you want to make strict BD compost and leave it there for six months, without moving or adding anything else after the preps, Why don't you try a mud-clay cover on top of the leaves, (this method, I believe is BD compatible) I once tried it and it worked fine. I though at first it was going to be a lot of work, but after a couple of hours building and wetting the piles, I ended it up with a lot of mud in the surroundings, that I simply putted on top. It looked really nice, like a huge termite "house-nest", (What's the word ?) In Proctor's book he recommends moving the pile after six weeks and then to take any corrective measures, such as adding water. In JPI instructions, it is metioned that, although not optimal, you can poke holes to either dry out your piles or add water. It is also mentioned that a dry out pile, must be re-build and, I assume new preps should be added. In SFRA I do not recall seen such specifics such as this or the placement of the BD preps in the piles. Also, the way Lovel, Proctor and Sattler & Wistinghausen and JPI, recommends placing the preps it is not consistent between them, so I suspect, as many other BD practices, it is a matter of experience, preference, direct "seeing" and tradition,. Proctor puts the solid preparations in one of the sides of the piles in no mentioned order and the valerian juice distributed in two holes and sprinkled on top. S & W recommends putting the preps in deep holes at the top of the heap in the following order: 502, 503, 504, 505, 506 and the valerian juice is disolved in water stired for 15 minutes and sprinkled on top. ( The book does not mention anything about the orientation of the compost heap so I can not tell if the order is S-N, E-W or what). Hugh Lovel recommends poking six holes: 504 & 505 in the center, the other preps in the edges, 502 and 507 go opposite from one another, as well as 503 and 506. Hugh explains his reason to do so in "A Biodynamic Farm, but I rather he discuss this with the list. I do not want to violate any copywrite, nor do I want to miquote him. The JPI "instructions" put 505, 506, and 507 along one side of the heap, on the other side 502, 503, and 504 (in that order) and 507 is potentized and divided in two; half is placed in it's hole and the rest finely sprayed over the pile after adding the other preps. Can some of you BDers comment on these diferences, does it really matter ? My perception is that we are not dealing with "things" that can be restricted to space-time coordinates, we are dealing with suttle forces, so that intention is more important than the wheres and hows. I just do it the best I can, and believe on the goodness of the process. Kind regards. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 27 22:38:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04480 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:38:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA00789; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:26:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (smtp1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA00695 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:24:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903280324.WAA00695@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 24262 invoked from network); 27 Mar 1999 20:27:55 -0700 Received: from ts2-37.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO ?209.161.18.188?) (209.161.18.188) by smtp2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 1999 20:27:55 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:27:03 -0700 Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate From: "Pam DeTray" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 426 Guillermo, I'm not looking in my books right now, but Ferdinand runs a row of holes down the pile, then goes back and places the preps to correspond with the parts of the body, i.e. head, stomach, etc., then finishes with the valerian spray. When my son and I attended the conference at Penticton he came out of a workshop surprised, because the speaker said the order of the preps placement didn't matter. On the drive up, he had read aloud to me from Wolf Storl, who shows a diagram of the traditional placement. I asked about water after placing the preps because I wonder about the interaction of the water with the forces of the preps. Your mud skin idea sounds right to me, but I'm still a "baby" at all this, have to look everything up in books! And no way will I attempt to even turn this pile, it's humongous!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net Guillermo wrote: > >Once I put the nylon cover down, I really do not need to water the piles >again in the three months that it takes here to have finished compost. My >relative humidity of 15-20 % during the dry season, it is on the dry side >and the sun is very strong, if I leave the piles uncovered they would dry quickly. snip >If you want to make strict BD compost and leave it there for six months, >without moving or adding anything else after the preps, Why don't you try a >mud-clay cover on top of the leaves, (this method, I believe is BD >compatible) I once tried it and it worked fine. I though at first it was >going to be a lot of work, but after a couple of hours building and wetting >the piles, I ended it up with a lot of mud in the surroundings, that I >simply putted on top. It looked really nice, like a huge termite >"house-nest", (What's the word ?) > >In Proctor's book he recommends moving the pile after six weeks and then to >take any corrective measures, such as adding water. > >In JPI instructions, it is metioned that, although not optimal, you can >poke holes to either dry out your piles or add water. It is also mentioned >that a dry out pile, must be re-build and, I assume new preps should be added. > >In SFRA I do not recall seen such specifics such as this or the placement >of the BD preps in the piles. Also, the way Lovel, Proctor and Sattler & >Wistinghausen and JPI, recommends placing the preps it is not consistent >between them, so I suspect, as many other BD practices, it is a matter of >experience, preference, direct "seeing" and tradition,. > >Proctor puts the solid preparations in one of the sides of the piles in no >mentioned order and the valerian juice distributed in two holes and >sprinkled on top. > >S & W recommends putting the preps in deep holes at the top of the heap in >the following order: 502, 503, 504, 505, 506 and the valerian juice is >disolved in water stired for 15 minutes and sprinkled on top. ( The book >does not mention anything about the orientation of the compost heap so I >can not tell if the order is S-N, E-W or what). > >Hugh Lovel recommends poking six holes: 504 & 505 in the center, the other >preps in the edges, 502 and 507 go opposite from one another, as well as >503 and 506. > >Hugh explains his reason to do so in "A Biodynamic Farm, but I rather he >discuss this with the list. I do not want to violate any copywrite, nor do >I want to miquote him. > > >The JPI "instructions" put 505, 506, and 507 along one side of the heap, on >the other side 502, 503, and 504 (in that order) and 507 is potentized and >divided in two; half is placed in it's hole and the rest finely sprayed >over the pile after adding the other preps. > >Can some of you BDers comment on these diferences, does it really matter ? > >My perception is that we are not dealing with "things" that can be >restricted to space-time coordinates, we are dealing with suttle forces, >so that intention is more important than the wheres and hows. I just do it >the best I can, and believe on the goodness of the process. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 00:19:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA06665 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:19:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA07708; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:07:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07532 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:05:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from think-pad-701c (pm3bky1-66-104.intrepid.net [206.102.66.104]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA16462 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:08:56 -0500 Message-ID: <36FDB9CB.4BB7@intrepid.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:10:35 -0500 From: Bobbie Rohn Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Morgan Awards X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: OFF : August 1999]] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 427 Return-Path: Received: from [206.102.66.104] (pm3bky1-66-104.intrepid.net [206.102.66.104]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA32182 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:32:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199903251232.HAA32182@loki.intrepid.net> Subject: Re: [Fwd: OFF : August 1999] Date: Thu, 25 Mar 99 07:36:17 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Jeanne Mozier To: "Bobbie Rohn" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bobbie Here's a reply you can post. Pluto is not "involved" in the Grand Fixed Cross only in the sense that it is not in a fixed sign. It is involved in other ways. It is only 8 dgrees from the fixed sign of Scorpio. It is stationing the day the Fixed Cross becomes exact by the Moon moving into a fixed sign (8/18). It is stationing at 8 degrees Sagittarius which is the exact rising sign of the most commonly used Declaration of Independence chart for the United States. This degree is also in the midst of what noted astrologer/forecaster Mark Lerner has designated the nuclear zone because of its predominance in all major nuclear activities since the early 1940s. With the eclipse path ending at the India/Pakistan border almost exactly on the anniversary of their "divorce," I would not be so quick to discount some sort of nuclear activity. Regarding the Cassemi -- having cast a chart for the lift-off, there are close aspects forward to 8/18/99 and its passage by earth that are less than reassuring. Whatever the actual event(s), I feel confident in predicting that Pluto stationing will be its usual explosive self. posted by Jeanne Mozier From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 00:47:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA06885 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:47:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA09002; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:34:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (ecpport2.ecopost.com.au [203.28.64.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08829 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 00:30:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (kmidc65-88.ecopost.com.au [203.28.65.88]) by ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA23184 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:30:27 +1000 Message-ID: <002201be78e4$4f7fba40$58411ccb@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "D & S Chamberlain" To: Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:28:13 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 428 Pam; I usually don't add water, wait a few days and feel the heap. if it is dry, then it is a case of no moisture no compost. This applys with or without preps, it is my personal belief that once preps are inserted, their forces are active within the heap and they won't wash out, so we come back to the start, no moisture, no compost. I have tried covering the heap with old woollen carpet, it stayed moister than the surrounding heap but packed down and was poor compost. There appears to be no end of suggested order of insertion of preps in heaps, I believe that we are dealing with forces or energies that have no regard to their physical position, I just position them evenly in the heap and stir and pour about half of the 507 in a hole and splash the rest over the heap. Don't let the rituals confuse you, it is after all a very simple process. Observation will answer most of your questions. David -----Original Message----- From: Pam DeTray To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, 28 March, 1999 5:42 AM Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate >David, do you add water when you're putting in wet manure? Do you actually >water that layer, as well as the dry stuff? > >----------------------------------------------------- >Pam DeTray >psdetray@cyberhighway.net >Fingernails dirty, cuticles broken and bleeding. > >---------- >>From: "D & S Chamberlain" >>To: "BDNOW" >>Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate >>Date: Thu, Mar 25, 1999, 7:28 PM >> > >>Pam; Keep it moist if you want compost!! Here where we live in Australia we >>tend to have long dry spells and if we let the compost dry out it just sits >>there and does nothing. It also is difficult to remoisten once it does dry >>and as you will realise, quite often you will not have the water to put on >>the heap. So keep it moist, dive your hand in regularly and feel it. Cow >>manure in lumps and dry is particularly hard to remoisten. >> >>Keep those finger nails dirty >>David > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 08:41:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA10087 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:41:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA21045; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20938 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:25:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.11]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:31:08 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:28:51 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: March 27, 1999 - April 02, 1999 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 429 Calendar of the Soul [March 27, 1999 - April 02, 1999] Fifty-first Week (March 23-29) Into our inner being The riches of the senses pour. The Cosmic Spirit finds itself Reflected in the human eye, Which ever must renew its strength From out that spirit source. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Ins Innre des Menschenwesens Ergiesst der Sinne Reichtum sich, Es findet sich der Weltengeist Im Spiegelbild des Menschenauges, Das seine Kraft aus ihm Sich neu erschaffen muss. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+51 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 12:59:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13112 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:59:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA07444; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:46:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07316 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:45:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp264.cy-net.net [208.21.195.73]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA24431 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:48:22 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE790E.8E19A160@FLYLO>; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:31:43 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE790E.8E19A160@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: OFF: a twist in the GE newsworld Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:54:27 -0600 Encoding: 65 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 430 One good aspect of GE seeds has come to the fore recently. It seems that people who are taking the time to educate themselves are choosing not to use products made with genetically altered foods.: This in on one of my husband's alt/energy usegroups: --- {EVangel} RW - The Express (DEXM) News Baker uses his loaf to cash in on organic bread 03/24/99 Copyright (c) 1999 The Express; Source: World Reporter (tm) WHEN Keith Murray started his organic bakery with one other worker, he envisaged a fairly modest market. In just three months, however, his business has grown 100-fold because of public concern about genetically modified food. Keith, 36, had expected to sell 1,000 loaves a week, with a turnover of GBP30,000 in a good year. Now he is hiring 27 staff to meet weekly targets of 110,000 loaves, producing GBP2,250,000. Experts from two of Britain's biggest supermarket chains beat a path to his door at a small environmental charity in a depressed part of Northumberland. This week Keith begins supplying 10 Asda supermarkets, which will increase by 50 a week until his loaves are stacked on the shelves of 227 stores. He has also won a contract to deliver organic bread to each of Iceland's 760 outlets by the end of April. Keith thinks critics can eat their words. "There were people who believed that organic food did not have a mass market," he said. "Well, we've proved them wrong." The Earthbalance Organic Bakery takes its name from the charity operating at Bomersund, near Bedlington, using its own wind, solar and water power. Flour is milled from organic wheat grown on the Earthbalance farm, which also supplies grain to an organic brewery. There is a trout farm, cafe and garden centre, but the bakery is by far the most commercially successful venture. Keith, who worked for a bakery in East Lothian before arriving last December, said: "Everything in our bread is 100 per cent organic. "These supermarkets are responding to their customers' demands for a certain quality of product, and we provide it. It also gives me a buzz that we are creating so much employment in an area where jobs are thin on the ground. I've been unemployed so I know what it's like. I am receiving hundreds of job applications." The ovens are fired with willow, which gives the light-textured bread a thin but hard crust with a slightly smoky flavour. Wayne Rowlett, of Asda's bakery division, said the bread would go on sale today at 75p for an 800g white loaf. "This Earthbalance project is a good thing for us to be involved with as a company," he said. "When they started they expected the bakery to be on the scale of their box produce operation, which sells vegetables directly to about 300 homes. We're delighted to have helped make such a difference." An Iceland spokeswoman said: "We are doing this to give our customers a wider range of choice and to meet the growing demand for organic products. " Anna White, of Earthbalance, said: "Making organic bread benefits the environment because you are not using pesticides on the land, so hopefully we'll be seeing more wildlife if a lot more people eat organic products." ... http://www.dialog.com/info/content/worldreporter/ customer@dialog.com World Reporter (tm) (c)1999 The Dialog Corporation, 343 Sansome Street, Suite 825, SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94104 415-986-5098 --- ____ {Statements may not be my Employer's} __/o|__\~ EVangel: messenger bringing good news =)---'@ -----@' 'Electric cruis'n the Santa Clara Valley' 132V S-10 Blazer http://members.aol.com/brucedp/ BruceDP@iname.com Electric Vehicle List Editor http://crest.org/ev-list-archive/ EAA San Jose EVents Officer http://members.aol.com/sjeaa/ Renewable Energy News contributing Editor EV & AE List sysop % Use Renewable Energy to charge your EV % From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 13:35:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13832 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA10638; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:22:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10387 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:20:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d152.infoserve.net [199.175.157.152]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA14769 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:26:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002401be7948$28e2a1e0$989dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: a twist in the GE newsworld Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:23:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 431 Yeah, it is polarizing the population into the "don't care if it is GE" and "anti-GE" product groups. It has also made many people aware who would not otherwise of alternatives to GE and conventionally grown food by bringing it to their consciousness. There has been some good and we have to keep slogging by choosing the right products. The Big Weapon the consumers have is having a choice still and fighting back by not buying those GE products if the gov't won't legislate them out of existence. M. -----Original Message----- From: Martha Wells To: 'Biodynamic Now' Date: Sunday, March 28, 1999 9:52 AM Subject: OFF: a twist in the GE newsworld >One good aspect of GE seeds has come to the fore recently. It seems that >people who are taking the time to educate themselves are choosing not to >use products made with genetically altered foods.: >This in on one of my husband's alt/energy usegroups: > >--- {EVangel} >RW - The Express (DEXM) News Baker uses his loaf to cash in on organic >bread 03/24/99 Copyright (c) 1999 The Express; Source: World Reporter (tm) >WHEN Keith Murray started his organic bakery with one other worker, he >envisaged a fairly modest market. In just three months, however, his >business has grown 100-fold because of public concern about genetically >modified food. >Keith, 36, had expected to sell 1,000 loaves a week, with a turnover of >GBP30,000 in a good year. Now he is hiring 27 staff to meet weekly targets >of 110,000 loaves, producing GBP2,250,000. Experts from two of Britain's >biggest supermarket chains beat a path to his door at a small environmental >charity in a depressed part of Northumberland. >This week Keith begins supplying 10 Asda supermarkets, which will increase >by 50 a week until his loaves are stacked on the shelves of 227 stores. He >has also won a contract to deliver organic bread to each of Iceland's 760 >outlets by the end of April. >Keith thinks critics can eat their words. "There were people who believed >that organic food did not have a mass market," he said. "Well, we've >proved them wrong." >The Earthbalance Organic Bakery takes its name from the charity operating >at Bomersund, near Bedlington, using its own wind, solar and water power. >Flour is milled from organic wheat grown on the Earthbalance farm, which >also supplies grain to an organic brewery. There is a trout farm, cafe and >garden centre, but the bakery is by far the most commercially successful >venture. >Keith, who worked for a bakery in East Lothian before arriving last >December, said: "Everything in our bread is 100 per cent organic. "These >supermarkets are responding to their customers' demands for a certain >quality of product, and we provide it. It also gives me a buzz that we are >creating so much employment in an area where jobs are thin on the ground. >I've been unemployed so I know what it's like. I am receiving hundreds of >job applications." >The ovens are fired with willow, which gives the light-textured bread a >thin but hard crust with a slightly smoky flavour. Wayne Rowlett, of Asda's >bakery division, said the bread would go on sale today at 75p for an 800g >white loaf. "This Earthbalance project is a good thing for us to be >involved with as a company," he said. "When they started they expected the >bakery to be on the scale of their box produce operation, which sells >vegetables directly to about 300 homes. >We're delighted to have helped make such a difference." An Iceland >spokeswoman said: "We are doing this to give our customers a wider range of >choice and to meet the growing demand for organic products. " Anna White, >of Earthbalance, said: "Making organic bread benefits the environment >because you are not using pesticides on the land, so hopefully we'll be >seeing more wildlife if a lot more people eat organic products." > ... >http://www.dialog.com/info/content/worldreporter/ customer@dialog.com >World Reporter (tm) (c)1999 The Dialog Corporation, 343 Sansome Street, >Suite 825, SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94104 415-986-5098 > --- > ____ {Statements may not be my Employer's} > __/o|__\~ EVangel: messenger bringing good news >=)---'@ -----@' 'Electric cruis'n the Santa Clara Valley' >132V S-10 Blazer http://members.aol.com/brucedp/ BruceDP@iname.com >Electric Vehicle List Editor http://crest.org/ev-list-archive/ >EAA San Jose EVents Officer http://members.aol.com/sjeaa/ >Renewable Energy News contributing Editor EV & AE List sysop >% Use Renewable Energy to charge your EV % > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 14:09:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA14095 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:09:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA13751; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:56:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13512 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:53:30 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA24377; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:50:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:50:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md17-56.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.184) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024348; Sun Mar 28 12:49:54 1999 To: spiney@erols.com To: ronitodd@hotmail.com To: rikonigsberg@sai2000.com To: r.simpson@erols.com To: Philyour@aol.com To: mkweskin@farmland.org To: M1BOBCAT@aol.com To: LisaLevinson@earthlink.net To: jmarino@evanseast.com To: jkliwinski@aol.com To: jasonab@mediaone.net To: jackie_foley@yahoo.com To: GillerJ@nabisco.com To: email2fm@aol.com To: dmryan@mailexcite.com To: dgregory@eden.rutgers.edu To: dan_verin@hotmail.com To: Compostgal@aol.com To: community_garden@mallorn.com To: BresslerZ@panasonic.com To: bhappy14@juno.com To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <199932813514315705@ix.netcom.com> Subject: GM potatoes shrink vital organs in rats X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 432 So, you like to eat potato chips? french fries?... Your fate it on your plate, my friends. The choice is yours. This article appeared in "Organic Farms, Folks and Foods," March/April 1999, a publication of Northeast Organic Farming Association's New York chapter (with U.K. magazine "Guardian" 2/12/99 as a source). "Decreased organ size and Lower Immune Function Found in Rats Fed Genetically Modified (GM) Potatoes - U.K. Researcher Dismissed in Apparent Cover-Up" Recently, twenty-two prominent scientists signed a public statement in support of suspended food scientist Dr. Arpad Pusztai, who lost his job last year for warning the Britis public of possible risks associated with bio-technology companies' introduction of genetically modified food that had not been tested with long-term feeding trials. Pusztai, a senior research scientist at the Rowett Research Institute in Scotland, was awarded a 1.6 million dollar grant in 1995 to study the effects of GM crops on animal nutrition and the environment. The preliminary results showed unexpected, worrisome changes in the size and weight of rats' bodily organs. Pusztai's team also found that liver and heart sizes were decreasing, and worse still, the rats' brains were getting smaller. There were also indication of a decrease in immune system function. Based on these results, Pusztai requested additional public funding for longer-term studies, and was denied. He then appeared on television, telling viewers that he would not eat GM food, and that people should not be used as unwitting guinea pigs. Two days later he was suspended from the Rowett Institute, forced to retire, and denied access to his research data. The Institute's subsequent audit of the research concluded there was no link between GM potatoes and health risks. The treatment of Dr. Pusztai and the virtual disbanding of his research team lead an international group of 20 scientists to go public, concerned with the attack on scientific freedom. The scientists from 13 countries state that their independent examination of all the published data shows that Dr. Pusztai was right to be concerned and should never have been attacked or suspended. As Dr. Vyvyan Howard, fetal and infant toxico-pathologist from the University of Liver pool said, "An objective review of the data from these experiments leads to the conclusion that the consumption of GNA-GM potatoes in rats has led to significant differences in organ weight and lymphocyte responsiveness. Further work should be undertaken to elucidate the meaning of these findings." Dr. Howard has called for a moratorium on GM foods. For more information, contact Richard Wolfson, Ph.D., Consumer Right to Know Campaign for Mandatory Labeling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod St., Ottawa, ON, Canada, K1N 6N2, tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Their web site, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to and from a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power... are you in control of yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 14:14:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA14144 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:14:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA14372; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA14205 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:00:50 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA23289; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:03:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:03:08 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md17-56.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.184) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma023259; Sun Mar 28 13:02:56 1999 To: flylo@txcyber.com To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <19993281445019961@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: some kind of nettles? X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 433 On 03/27/99 17:12:42 you wrote: > >I have a very obnoxious weed growing around my goat barns. It has a tiny >serrate - toothed leaf (like cilantro) and leaves grow opposite each other. >Stem is flat hexagonal like true mints, so I'd LIKE to believe this is some >kind of nettle, but the ag guy couldn't identify it. Grows about 2 ft tall >or better. If you brush against it, it's wildly stinging, tho. >We have bullnettle here, (not a true nettle) and this is nothing like that >either. >Any clues? Because of all the wonders of nettles I've been reading, I'm >tempted to treat it like nettle, but would sure like to know what it is I'm >dealing with first. It burns out when hot summertime comes along. Goats >won't eat it. >martha > > > If an ag guy can't ID it, it sounds exotic. If goats won't eat it, it sounds freaky,... like nettle crossed with random GMO pollen floating about! Roundup Ready Stinging nettles, new from Monsinto in honor of BD farmers around the world! It's a new form of nettles, from which you make a prep to spray on your neighbor's BD farm to kill it, thereby eliminating competition. "Farms of Tomorrow" doesn't include this aspect of local economy. Monsinto's now working on a corn to feed to your neighbor's cows so they excrete municipal sludge instead of manure. And we thought they were the bad guys. Just goes to show, don't judge a corporation by its genes! Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to and from a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power... are you in control of yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 14:23:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA14222 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:23:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA15342; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:11:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15169 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:09:47 -0500 (EST) From: beanman@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA17712; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:12:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:12:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from rvl-md17-56.ix.netcom.com(205.184.106.184) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017676; Sun Mar 28 13:12:10 1999 To: agraf@agecon.uga.edu To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-Id: <19993281414212995@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Organic Ag and the Many Hands of THE GOVERNMENT X-Mailer: Netcomplete v4.0, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 434 See the article in this year's Stella Natura, saying we must not codify culture (agric or otherwise). Happy Gardening, John Edward Verin Senior Apprentice Ecosystem Farm Accokeek, MD BTW, if you don't know how to grow your own food you don't really have any clout, Y2K or not, so... LEARN! How many millions of Americans live in poorly made, over-priced houses built on farm land, race twice daily at deadly speeds to and from a toxic city to do a job they don't really like in a plastic office so they can get money to give to someone else in order to eat food? Food is power... are you in control of yours? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 18:26:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA18533 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA09094; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:13:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08955 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:12:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (tor-pm-1-17.netrover.com [205.209.27.17]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07450 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:15:19 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: "bdnow" Subject: Leaf Dates Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:16:05 -0500 Message-ID: <01be7970$f4e06fc0$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE7947.0C0A67C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 435 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE7947.0C0A67C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can anyone on the BD list comment on the distinction between Hugh J. = Courtney's "recommended dates" for leaf emphasis on Mar. 26,27-- = compared to the asterisked dates of Mar. 29 & 31 in the Stella Natura = Calendar...? Unless it's a misprint, this example of published variance = is a perennial source of confusion for many astrological neophytes in BD = pursuits - not to mention casual observers. I don't have an adequate answer when someone asks : if the cosmic = influences are so significant in their relatively abrupt time = segments/cycles, then how can there be [an apparent] difference as = suggested through the foregoing information?[ notwithstanding the = equally perennial, and my favorite,----" its primarily a matter of = Intent".] Please understand that I mean no disrespect for the great work = that is, and has been, done. ....Just seeking clarification..... and = wondering about transparent collaboration possibilities.... continuing = to share insights.....[hope i haven't misread something] ...thanks, .....manfred palmer ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE7947.0C0A67C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can anyone on the BD list comment on the = distinction=20 between Hugh J. Courtney's "recommended dates" for leaf = emphasis on=20 Mar. 26,27-- compared to the asterisked dates of Mar. 29 & 31 in the = Stella=20 Natura Calendar...?  Unless it's a misprint, this example of = published=20 variance is a perennial source of confusion for many astrological = neophytes in=20 BD pursuits - not to mention casual observers.
 I don't have an adequate answer when = someone asks=20 : if the cosmic influences are so significant in their relatively abrupt = time=20 segments/cycles, then how can there be [an apparent] difference as = suggested=20 through the foregoing information?[ notwithstanding the equally = perennial, and=20 my favorite,----" its primarily a matter of Intent".] Please=20 understand that I mean no disrespect for the great work that is, and has = been,=20 done. ....Just seeking clarification.....  and wondering about = transparent=20 collaboration possibilities.... continuing to share insights.....[hope i = haven't=20 misread something]
 ...thanks, =20 .....manfred palmer
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE7947.0C0A67C0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 00:25:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA23193 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:25:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA14796; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:10:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mw1.texas.net (mw1.texas.net [206.127.30.11]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14529 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:08:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from dldavis.texas.net (tcnet24-040.austin.texas.net [209.99.97.166]) by mw1.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with SMTP id XAA12560 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:11:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <004001be79a1$f7539c60$a66163d1@dldavis.texas.net> From: "The Davis Family" To: Subject: Re: some kind of nettles? Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:06:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 436 Martha could that plant be nose-nettle? I live in Texas and there is a small plant that when it rubs your bare ankle or your bare arms when weeding it causes the skin to itch for 2-3 minutes and then goes away. I'll try to find out more for you. Dan Davis -----Original Message----- From: Martha Wells To: 'Biodynamic Now' Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 5:30 PM Subject: some kind of nettles? >I have a very obnoxious weed growing around my goat barns. It has a tiny >serrate - toothed leaf (like cilantro) and leaves grow opposite each other. >Stem is flat hexagonal like true mints, so I'd LIKE to believe this is some >kind of nettle, but the ag guy couldn't identify it. Grows about 2 ft tall >or better. If you brush against it, it's wildly stinging, tho. >We have bullnettle here, (not a true nettle) and this is nothing like that >either. >Any clues? Because of all the wonders of nettles I've been reading, I'm >tempted to treat it like nettle, but would sure like to know what it is I'm >dealing with first. It burns out when hot summertime comes along. Goats >won't eat it. >martha > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 05:21:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA25754 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 05:21:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA02231; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 05:08:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA02085 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 05:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from edtntnt1-port-64.agt.net ([161.184.192.64]:1100 "HELO griebel-vine") by edtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <522362-4792>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 03:08:36 -0700 Message-ID: <001601be79cb$a2467100$40c0b8a1@griebel-vine> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "Katherine R. Griebel" To: "BDNOW" Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE BDNOW Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 03:05:10 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 437 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 06:12:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA26419 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:12:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA04354; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 05:59:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA04323 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 05:58:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-93.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.93]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA02798 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:01:57 +1000 Message-ID: <010701be79d3$7438ea60$5d431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: Leaf Dates Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:28:15 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BE7A22.AC5E71E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 438 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BE7A22.AC5E71E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Manfred, On the Australian AstroCalendar, the 26 and 27th are leaf days, as the = moon is in cancer (water sign) On the 29th and 31st, even though the = Moon is in Leo (fruit/fire sign) and on 31st, Moon in Virgo, ( = root/earth sign) it also happens to be a trine in water, ie. three = planets, Pluto, Mercury and Jupiter are all in water signs, so this = (according to Maria Thuns work ) overrides to single moon sign. Some Planting calendars follow Thuns work throughout, and others use = some of it, as I suspect Courtenay is doing. I suggest you read, "Land = and the Constellations" by Maria Thun, so that you have a better idea of = what they are trying to do. Not everyone agrees with Thuns work, so that = is why you will get differences in calendars. Best wishes, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322=20 -----Original Message----- From: manfred palmer To: bdnow Date: Monday, 29 March 1999 9:17 am Subject: Leaf Dates =20 =20 Can anyone on the BD list comment on the distinction between Hugh J. = Courtney's "recommended dates" for leaf emphasis on Mar. 26,27-- = compared to the asterisked dates of Mar. 29 & 31 in the Stella Natura = Calendar...? Unless it's a misprint, this example of published variance = is a perennial source of confusion for many astrological neophytes in BD = pursuits - not to mention casual observers. I don't have an adequate answer when someone asks : if the cosmic = influences are so significant in their relatively abrupt time = segments/cycles, then how can there be [an apparent] difference as = suggested through the foregoing information?[ notwithstanding the = equally perennial, and my favorite,----" its primarily a matter of = Intent".] Please understand that I mean no disrespect for the great work = that is, and has been, done. ....Just seeking clarification..... and = wondering about transparent collaboration possibilities.... continuing = to share insights.....[hope i haven't misread something] ...thanks, .....manfred palmer ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BE7A22.AC5E71E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Manfred,
On the = Australian=20 AstroCalendar, the 26 and 27th are leaf days, as the moon is in cancer = (water=20 sign) On the 29th and 31st, even though the Moon is in Leo (fruit/fire = sign) and=20 on 31st, Moon in Virgo, ( root/earth sign) it also happens to be a trine = in=20 water, ie. three planets, Pluto, Mercury  and Jupiter are all in = water=20 signs,  so this (according to Maria Thuns work ) overrides to = single moon=20 sign.
Some Planting calendars follow Thuns work = throughout, and=20 others use some of it, as I suspect Courtenay is doing.  I suggest = you=20 read, "Land and the Constellations" by Maria Thun, so that you = have a=20 better idea of what they are trying to do. Not everyone agrees with = Thuns work,=20 so that is why you will get differences in calendars.
Best wishes,
Cheryl = Kemp
Education=20 & Advisory Coordinator
Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening = Assoc.
of=20 Australia Inc.
P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office)
627 Tyringham = Rd,=20 Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home)
Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322=20
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 manfred palmer <villager@netrover.com>
To:=20 bdnow <bdnow@envirolink.org>
D= ate:=20 Monday, 29 March 1999 9:17 am
Subject: Leaf=20 Dates

Can anyone on the BD list comment on the=20 distinction between Hugh J. Courtney's "recommended dates" = for=20 leaf emphasis on Mar. 26,27-- compared to the asterisked dates of = Mar. 29=20 & 31 in the Stella Natura Calendar...?  Unless it's a = misprint,=20 this example of published variance is a perennial source of = confusion for=20 many astrological neophytes in BD pursuits - not to mention casual=20 observers.
 I don't have an adequate answer = when someone=20 asks : if the cosmic influences are so significant in their = relatively=20 abrupt time segments/cycles, then how can there be [an apparent] = difference=20 as suggested through the foregoing information?[ notwithstanding the = equally=20 perennial, and my favorite,----" its primarily a matter of=20 Intent".] Please understand that I mean no disrespect for the = great=20 work that is, and has been, done. ....Just seeking = clarification..... =20 and wondering about transparent collaboration possibilities.... = continuing=20 to share insights.....[hope i haven't misread = something]
 ...thanks, =20 .....manfred palmer
------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BE7A22.AC5E71E0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 07:34:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA27114 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:34:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA09127; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:21:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA08905 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:19:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp320.cy-net.net [208.21.195.129]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA19324 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:22:14 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE79AB.21D49120@FLYLO>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:12:32 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE79AB.21D49120@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: some kind of nettles? Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:12:25 -0600 Encoding: 50 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 439 No, this stuff definitely burns for hours. A vinegar rub will dilute the burning, but it lasts at least 6 - 12 hours. And the stuff is everywhere! I'm pretty sure it came in with some small bird seed, and the wild birds have spread the seed all around the corrals now. We used to raise parakeets and finches and I was buying a seed blend from Empire in Waco. This was mostly millet with some tiny (poppy seed like) black seeds in it, and I think this was what it was. but check anyhow. As soon as we get some really hot weather, it dries out and dies out. Hasn't seeded out yet and I'd like to try to get a stop on it before it does. Mowing would help but it's in nooks and crannies that don't get mowed. martha -----Original Message----- From: The Davis Family [SMTP:dldavis@texas.net] Sent: Sunday, March 28, 1999 11:07 PM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: some kind of nettles? Martha could that plant be nose-nettle? I live in Texas and there is a small plant that when it rubs your bare ankle or your bare arms when weeding it causes the skin to itch for 2-3 minutes and then goes away. I'll try to find out more for you. Dan Davis -----Original Message----- From: Martha Wells To: 'Biodynamic Now' Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 5:30 PM Subject: some kind of nettles? >I have a very obnoxious weed growing around my goat barns. It has a tiny >serrate - toothed leaf (like cilantro) and leaves grow opposite each other. >Stem is flat hexagonal like true mints, so I'd LIKE to believe this is some >kind of nettle, but the ag guy couldn't identify it. Grows about 2 ft tall >or better. If you brush against it, it's wildly stinging, tho. >We have bullnettle here, (not a true nettle) and this is nothing like that >either. >Any clues? Because of all the wonders of nettles I've been reading, I'm >tempted to treat it like nettle, but would sure like to know what it is I'm >dealing with first. It burns out when hot summertime comes along. Goats >won't eat it. >martha > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 12:30:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03366 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA16408; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:18:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15904 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:15:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem39.digisys.net [205.138.110.88]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA12614; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:18:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36FFB693.BEA78CD9@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:21:23 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" CC: "herb@MyList.net" , "HERBWORLD@aol.com" , Sally Subject: [Fwd: Urgent Action Needed - Biased panel to set US biotech policy, laws] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------55455D258E71B3E736E094E5" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 440 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------55455D258E71B3E736E094E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI. --------------55455D258E71B3E736E094E5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from 1ststar.1ststar.com (IDENT:mail@1ststar.1ststar.com [209.150.128.54]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA10482 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:14:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by 1ststar.1ststar.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14392 for whiteowl@digisys.net; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:15:17 -0600 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by 1ststar.1ststar.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14378 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:15:11 -0600 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07443 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:06:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA07143 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:05:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000107674 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:02:18 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:02:39 GMT Subject: Urgent Action Needed - Biased panel to set US biotech policy, laws Message-ID: <1658056702.50141038@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is an alert that I hope you will help with. We only have 2 weeks to make a loud noise about this bogus review panel. It is felt that if we do not and the panel succeeds in their goal of a major PR coup, in a few months it will be much harder for the US public to hear us. We have them running already, let's keep it up. Supporting documents are included or will follow. Thank you for any help you can give. Judy ------- Urgent Action Needed - Biased panel to set US biotech policy, laws The National Academy of Sciences will begin a "fast track" study on April 8 in order to give GE foods a rubber stamp of approval - by investigating the benefits and potential risks of genetically engineered crops with an eye toward recommending changes in government regulations. (see article below) The NAS study is an attempt to minimize the effect on the US public of the European furor over GE food. The NAS is a highly respected body, and supposedly "independent," so it has the power to pull off a major biotech PR coup. The NAS is largely responsible for the US policy on biotech. Since the 70's it has promoted GE to Congress, to the Carter, Reagan, Bush, and Clinton Administrations, to Wall Street investors, federal agencies, etc. Also, the NAS is under the thumb of Monsanto, et al, and under pressure to show the biotech flag. Plus it wants to protect its reputation. The study is expected to be narrow in scope, and will conclude that there are some problems which can be handled, and that the benefits far outweigh the risks. As Joe Cummins says, it "will show the bias of the committee and serve as a public relations scheme to revive the worldwide image of biotechnology." Please note: 1. The panel is stacked in favor of the biotech companies (you can see for yourself in a separate post (with biotech interest emboldened or explained) or by going to this URL http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument 2. Usually NAS studies take 18 months but this study will take 1/3 that time - 6 months. 3. The review is unannounced. Monsanto was upset when they heard that the author of the article knew about it. LET THE NAS KNOW WE ARE WATCHING AND THAT THEY CAN'T DO A WASH JOB. What you can do: 1) We have until April 8 to flood the NAS with comments on the NAS Committee membership - demand they reveal any biotech conflicts of interest. A response form is set up on the NAS website (sample letter below): http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument Project ID is BANR-O-99-02-A. Here you can e-mail the NAS directly, access the committee membership, and the project scope. 2) Send the article below and this information to as many environmental organizations, websites, listserves, etc., as possible so their members can send their responses to the NAS as soon as possible. 3) Contact your Congressperson asking them to inquire whether the panel members are really objective. 4) Contact media telling them to follow up on the story. Send them the article with a cover letter (2 samples below). Sample letter for website: Dear NAS, I am concerned that the committee that is reviewing the health, safety, and environmental impact of genetically engineered agricultural products is made up primarily of scientists that derive their livelihood from genetic engineering, work for organizations who rely on grants from bio-engineering companies, or are official regulators of the technology (and therefore cannot easily take a public stand against it). It would almost appear that the role of this committee is to get an NAS rubber stamp to proceed, while many scientists in the US, Europe and Asia are questioning the long-term environmental impact of this technology. - Ornithologists and entymologists are concerned about the destruction of beneficial insects (through Bt ingestion) and mass death of birds that prey on these (and pest) insects. - Ecologists are concerned about horizontal gene transfer to similar species of plants (through cross-pollination), recombination of plant viruses used as the DNA transfer mechanism, and genetic pollution of the biosphere. - Agronomists are concerned about the massive transformation of the biodiversity of food plant species to monocultures. - Economists are concerned about the transformation of entire rural economies from subsistence horticulture to cash commodity agriculture. - Medical doctors are concerned that the enzymes and proteins expressed by the inserted or modified genes may have adverse health effects, such as the increase in allergy to RRS soybeans found in Europe. Yet none of the many scientifically credentialed critics of agricultural genetic engineering have been included on the committee destined to provide a review of this technology in the name of the National Academy of Sciences. Without such members on the committee, and an unrestricted open debate about the full range of issues, any report that the committee prepares will, by its very nature, be discredited before it is published. I strongly urge you to reconsider the membership of the committee to include serious critics of the technology, so as to make them at least 50% of the membership of the committee. Sincerely, -------- Sample letter - media 1: Dear Editor, On April 8, 1999 the U.S. National Academy of Sciences is going to begin a "fast track" study to investigate the risks and benefits of genetically modified (GM) crops. NAS Studies usually take about 18 months but this study is expected to be completed in six months. Biotech companies like Monsanto, Dupont, and Dow have invested billons of dollars in GM food crops. They are now facing a meltdown of public trust in Europe and the possibility of that happening in the United States. The NAS panel is stacked in favor of the biotech companies. We believe they are behind this "fast-track' NAS study in order to gain a rubber stamp approval for their products.. The URL for the NAS Committee on Genetically Modified Crops is: http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument Below please find an article by Journalist Bill Lambrecht of the St. Louis Post regarding the NAS study. Sincerely, ------- Sample letter - media 2: Dear Editor, On April 8, 1999 the U.S. National Academy of Sciences is going to begin a "fast track" study to investigate the risks and benefits of genetically modified (GM) crops. NAS Studies usually take about 18 months but this study is expected to be completed in 6 months. Biotech companies like Monsanto, Dupont, and Dow have invested billons of dollars in GM food crops. They are now facing a meltdown of public trust in Europe and the possibility of that happening in the United States. The furor has reached firestorm proportions in other parts of the world, with people burning and uprooting biotech plots, UK MPs calling Monsanto "Public Enemy #1", supermarkets declaring themselves Genetic Engineering-free zones, the European Union potentially blockading against GM foods, and Brazil halting all GM seeds. Farmers in the US have eagerly bought into the biotech revolution, unaware of the environmental problems and potentially catastrophic economic downside: inability to sell their crop and contamination of their land and grain silos if the furor spreads to US consumers. Thus an immediate whitewash of the technology is crucial for these biotech food giants and their contractors, supporters, and farm clients. We believe that is the impetus behind this "fast-track" NAS study. The composition of the NAS panel is telling because it is heavily stacked in favor of the biotech industry. Monsanto, Dupont, and Dow already exert powerful influence in several critical parts of the federal government: trade, FDA, USDA, EPA, and the President and VP. A rubber stamp of the National Academy of Sciences might overcome the objections of many researchers and activists if they don't have the full story in front of them, and would influence the decisions of regulatory agencies abroad. The URL for the NAS Committee on Genetically Modified Crops is: http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument Below please find an article by Journalist Bill Lambrecht of the St. Louis Post regarding the NAS study. Sincerely, ------- Altered crops will get safety review By Bill Lambrecht St. Louis Post-Dispatch Washington Bureau The National Academy of Sciences is beginning an urgent study of the benefits and potential risks of genetically engineered crops with an eye toward recommending changes in government regulations. Over the next six months, a special committee of 13 scientists and experts chosen by the National Research Council, which is an arm of the National Academy of Sciences, will examine not only safety issues but social and economic implications of plants modified with pesticide genes. That includes most genetically engineered crops. Studies by the research council usually take about 18 months. But the new effort will be conducted in a third of that time because of pressing questions in need of answers, said the study's director, Michael Phillips. "Because of the urgency of this matter, we can't wait two years to slowly put out a statement," Phillips said. "There are a lot of questions, and the longer something like this lingers, it creates concern in the industry and society in general." The science academy did not formally announce its study; a list of the members selected for the special committee appeared without fanfare on the academy's Web site this week. Members will gather in Washington to begin their work on April 8. The study is especially important for St. Louis-based Monsanto Co., the global leader in genetic technologies for farming and food. Philip Angell, Monsanto's director of communications, said his company welcomes the government's review. "We're confident in the science, we're confident in the technology," Angell said. "This is certainly a distinguished body that we believe will validate what we've always known about this." The National Academy of Sciences serves as a scientific adviser to the U.S. government, but it is not a government agency. It has about 1,600 members chosen for their achievements. New members are elected by the full membership. Usually, Congress or government agencies request and pay for studies by the academy's research council, but occasionally - about 1 in 10 times - the academy initiates its own study and pays for it from its endowment. This study is one of the occasional exceptions. At a meeting on Dec. 9 in Washington, the academy members agreed to conduct the genetic engineering study and to assume the cost of about $300,000. The academy has not issued a report on genetically engineered crops in a decade. During that time, plantings of such crops in the United States have soared to more than 50 million acres. The new study will examine field trials and laboratory studies that have taken place in the 1990s. Part of the urgency has to do with forthcoming Environmental Protection Agency regulations. Those rules, which have been in the works since 1994, will govern farming with crops engineered to produce a protein that kills pests. For instance, farmers would need to maintain refuges - areas planted with conventional varieties - adjacent to the modified crops. Recently, the EPA has said that it will apply the rules sparingly. Nonetheless, many scientists, among them Washington State University's R. James Cook, believe that the EPA rules and definitions are too broadly drawn and need to be scaled back. "Call us naive academics if you want, but many of us believe that they scooped up too much to regulate," Cook said. These scientists appealed to the national academy, which agreed to begin the study. In other words, the study was initiated not because of concerns that there may be too little regulation but because of worries about too much regulation. No matter how it came about, the study is certain to have broad implications. In Europe, Asia and parts of South America, a debate is raging about the safety, morality and politics of altering the genetic code of food. That debate is beginning to sound in the United States. To answer skeptics, Monsanto and rivals argue that good science and a sound regulatory system in the United States underpin their new technologies. Here and abroad, the new study could validate those arguments. Or, it might identify where more study is needed and better rules are needed. Margaret Mellon, of the Union of Concerned Scientists in Washington, said her organization is pleased that the academy's study will take place even though it was generated by fears of over-regulation. "We have long been concerned that there is so little risk assessment being done and so few data being collected to see if the risks are present or not," Mellon said. "If this is a forum to see if there are risks, that is fine." For different reasons, Monsanto and environmental advocates want to keep the EPA rules that helped to generate the new study. The environmentalists want strict regulations because of what they see as unknown risks, such as the outcrossing - or escape - of genes into the wild. Companies assert that their technologies pose little or no risk that would require any new regulations that might result from the study. But, Monsanto's Angell said, companies need reasonable regulations for their genetic technologies to take root. -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------55455D258E71B3E736E094E5-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 15:14:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08458 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:14:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA15447; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:02:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24600 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:06:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (sea-pm3-6-p160.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.160]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22020 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:09:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36FFBF6D.150BA9D8@wolfenet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:59:14 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: [Fwd: Am I reaching you? (Pest Control)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 441 If any of you responded to the email below, I did not receive it due to forwarding problems. I believe these problems are fixed now. Resend if you would like. Martin Martin Nyberg wrote: > If you are there (BDNOW list group), I would like to pose a question to anyone > familiar with two pests: > > sinfilins (sp?) > pea weavils > > In the Northwest we have sinfilins and they can become a disaster by eating > roots of all crops. They are small soil dwellers (look like miniature > millipedes, about a 1/4 inch long max.) who like wet soils. According to > Steve Solomon, there is no way to get rid of them save going fallow for at > least a two year rotation to starve them out. Their only enemies are black > beetles (forget the scientific name). I have a bad infestation in an isolated > portion of my property but I NEED to grow there this spring. > > Pea Weavils are munching the tender young leaves of my pea sprouts. I have > not heard of any organic method of damage control. > > I sure hope I am on the list now. I am not receiving my own posts like I used > to so I have no way of knowing unless someone replies to this post. > > Best Regards, > > Martin Nyberg From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 15:14:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08475 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:14:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA15206; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:02:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24124 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (sea-pm3-6-p160.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.160]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23268 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:05:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36FFBEA4.775219A9@wolfenet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:55:54 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: [Fwd: Who's site is Sacred Soil?] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 442 If any of you responded to the email below, I did not receive it due to forwarding problems. I believe these problems are fixed now. Resend if you would like. Martin Martin Nyberg wrote: > Hi Martha and all. I hope I am reaching you now. I have been unable to get > on the bdnow list for several weeks for some reason. > > You are not missing anything. The Web site is missing something. It is just > not finished yet. The site is a great start and has good intent. But he is > an amateur Web designer and has somethings to learn. I have bookmarked the > site and will be checking it out as it develops. > > Martin > > Martha Wells wrote: > > > Who's garden / farm is Sacred Soil? > > http://www.sacred-soil.com/ > > I have the site bookmarked and was just taking a tour. The BD Preps pages > > are very informative. The explanation of how each preparation is made is > > easy to understand, but alas, no reason is given about what the preparation > > should be used for. Night and Greenhouse links take the viewer to those > > pages, but the subject lines aren't linked to anything. Am I missing > > something here? > > thanks > > martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 18:33:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13793 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:33:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14949; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:14:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from news1.infoave.net (news1.InfoAve.Net [165.166.15.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA21248 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by news1.infoave.net; id AA00537; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:35:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:35:19 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990329163112.41ffd2fe@swva.net> X-Sender: mgardner@swva.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: malcolm ian gardner Subject: Re: [Fwd: Am I reaching you? (Pest Control)] Cc: bdnow@envirolink.org Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 443 The correct spelling for "sinfilins" is "symphylans". I don't know any remedy, but the right spelling may help you look it up elsewhere. Sincerely, Malcolm At 09:59 AM 3/29/99 -0800, Martin Nyberg wrote: >If any of you responded to the email below, I did not receive it due to >forwarding problems. I believe these problems are fixed now. Resend if you >would like. > >Martin > >Martin Nyberg wrote: > >> If you are there (BDNOW list group), I would like to pose a question to anyone >> familiar with two pests: >> >> sinfilins (sp?) >> pea weavils >> >> In the Northwest we have sinfilins and they can become a disaster by eating >> roots of all crops. They are small soil dwellers (look like miniature >> millipedes, about a 1/4 inch long max.) who like wet soils. According to >> Steve Solomon, there is no way to get rid of them save going fallow for at >> least a two year rotation to starve them out. Their only enemies are black >> beetles (forget the scientific name). I have a bad infestation in an isolated >> portion of my property but I NEED to grow there this spring. >> >> Pea Weavils are munching the tender young leaves of my pea sprouts. I have >> not heard of any organic method of damage control. >> >> I sure hope I am on the list now. I am not receiving my own posts like I used >> to so I have no way of knowing unless someone replies to this post. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Martin Nyberg > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 18:33:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13801 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:33:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA15002; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:14:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09707 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:44:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d154.infoserve.net [199.175.157.154]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA24069 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:50:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001401be7a36$38d728c0$9a9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who's site is Sacred Soil?] Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:45:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 444 it's fine. If any problems, you can always email thru igg@igg.com -----Original Message----- From: Martin Nyberg To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 12:08 PM Subject: [Fwd: Who's site is Sacred Soil?] >If any of you responded to the email below, I did not receive it due to >forwarding problems. I believe these problems are fixed now. Resend if you >would like. > >Martin > >Martin Nyberg wrote: > >> Hi Martha and all. I hope I am reaching you now. I have been unable to get >> on the bdnow list for several weeks for some reason. >> >> You are not missing anything. The Web site is missing something. It is just >> not finished yet. The site is a great start and has good intent. But he is >> an amateur Web designer and has somethings to learn. I have bookmarked the >> site and will be checking it out as it develops. >> >> Martin >> >> Martha Wells wrote: >> >> > Who's garden / farm is Sacred Soil? >> > http://www.sacred-soil.com/ >> > I have the site bookmarked and was just taking a tour. The BD Preps pages >> > are very informative. The explanation of how each preparation is made is >> > easy to understand, but alas, no reason is given about what the preparation >> > should be used for. Night and Greenhouse links take the viewer to those >> > pages, but the subject lines aren't linked to anything. Am I missing >> > something here? >> > thanks >> > martha > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 18:34:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13819 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:34:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA15125; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:15:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09715 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:44:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d154.infoserve.net [199.175.157.154]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA24073 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:50:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001501be7a36$39ba83e0$9a9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: Am I reaching you? (Pest Control)] Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:47:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 445 Dear Martin, For pea weevils, I know that beneficial nematodes are of help. The botanical extract, Neem, may also, but, no experience with it against the pea weevil. As for sinfilins, I don't know. Have not encountered them. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Martin Nyberg To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 12:08 PM Subject: [Fwd: Am I reaching you? (Pest Control)] >If any of you responded to the email below, I did not receive it due to >forwarding problems. I believe these problems are fixed now. Resend if you >would like. > >Martin > >Martin Nyberg wrote: > >> If you are there (BDNOW list group), I would like to pose a question to anyone >> familiar with two pests: >> >> sinfilins (sp?) >> pea weavils >> >> In the Northwest we have sinfilins and they can become a disaster by eating >> roots of all crops. They are small soil dwellers (look like miniature >> millipedes, about a 1/4 inch long max.) who like wet soils. According to >> Steve Solomon, there is no way to get rid of them save going fallow for at >> least a two year rotation to starve them out. Their only enemies are black >> beetles (forget the scientific name). I have a bad infestation in an isolated >> portion of my property but I NEED to grow there this spring. >> >> Pea Weavils are munching the tender young leaves of my pea sprouts. I have >> not heard of any organic method of damage control. >> >> I sure hope I am on the list now. I am not receiving my own posts like I used >> to so I have no way of knowing unless someone replies to this post. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Martin Nyberg > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 18:36:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13847 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:36:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16250; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:23:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15936 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:20:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.10] ([208.138.96.18]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:26:03 -0500 Message-ID: <36FFC57B.35A3@webcity-development.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:25:23 +0000 From: Jane Sherry Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: WebCity Development LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Am I reaching you? (Pest Control)] References: <1.5.4.16.19990329163112.41ffd2fe@swva.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 446 Martin, If you join the Organic Gardening mailing list, I know you can get info from those folks on symphylans. There was much recent discussion about them as many members are from the NW Coast of the US. When I get back to my other computer, I can get you the sub info if you haven't found it by then. YOu can always look it up in their archives. I believe the discussion took place last month. Good luck Jane malcolm ian gardner wrote: > > The correct spelling for "sinfilins" is "symphylans". I don't know any > remedy, but the right spelling may help you look it up elsewhere. > > Sincerely, > Malcolm From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 19:00:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA14307 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:00:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA19982; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:47:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from pablo.total.net (pablo.total.net [205.236.175.128]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA19598 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from windows98 (ppp-5800-03b-1163.mtl.total.net [207.139.64.163]) by pablo.total.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11064 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:48:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <018201be7a3e$10e72f60$6b1fcdcd@windows98> From: "Frank Teuton" To: Subject: Fw: Garden Symphylan Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:41:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 447 -----Original Message----- From: Joel Reiten To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 10:11 PM Subject: Garden Symphylan >Some symphylan info to pass on; > >Symphylans (Scuitgerella immaculta) are 3-6 mm long, white, >with prominent antennae and numerous legs. Symps are hatched >with six legs but gain a pair every time they molt. The >adult has 12 pairs of legs. Symps spend there entire life >cycle in the soil. They are distinguished from centipedes by >their white color and smaller size. They are found in the >Northwest, north central and northeast parts of the US. They >are a serious garden pest in western Oregon and Washington. >Symps have two generations in a year. They tend to seek the >level in the soil where there is a stable temp and moisture >level. Symps are general plant feeders and will feed on >germinating seed, fine plant root hairs and fungi. Affected >plants appear stunted. A raw potato cut in half and placed >cut side down on the soil in the spring can be used to >sample the symph population. If more than 5 symphylans are >feeding on the potato you have a population at damaging >levels. A mite predator, Pergamasus quisquiliarum will >consume symphylans and may be a useful predator. Thoroughly >tilling the soil in the spring can provide some control but >more recent research shows that the damage done to the soil >biology may outweigh and symph control. The use of feeder >strips between the rows of vegetables may also proceed some >control. Thin strips of oats, wheat or clover are planted >before transplanting out vegetables. The thought is that the >symps will be attracted by the young, rapidly growing crop >and will avoid the transplanted ones. Promising research has >shown that increasing the levels of soil fungus will also >reduce crop pressure. >Joel@ TSC > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 19:42:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA14951 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25350; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:28:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25257 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (sea-pm3-6-p160.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.160]) by wolfenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24514 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:30:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <370018B6.5ABDEA18@wolfenet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:20:47 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Am I reaching you? (Pest Control)] References: <1.5.4.16.19990329163112.41ffd2fe@swva.net> <36FFC57B.35A3@webcity-development.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 448 Wow, thanks Jane. Yes please send me the URL for the list archives and I may sign up. That would be three lists and may be overload... but I will look into it. How busy does it get? Martin Nyberg Jane Sherry wrote: > Martin, > If you join the Organic Gardening mailing list, I know you can get info > from those folks on symphylans. There was much recent discussion about > them as many members are from the NW Coast of the US. > > When I get back to my other computer, I can get you the sub info if you > haven't found it by then. YOu can always look it up in their archives. I > believe the discussion took place last month. > > Good luck > Jane > > malcolm ian gardner wrote: > > > > The correct spelling for "sinfilins" is "symphylans". I don't know any > > remedy, but the right spelling may help you look it up elsewhere. > > > > Sincerely, > > Malcolm From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 29 20:18:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15396 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00101; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29840 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (sarpm2-ip36.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.185]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA24536 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 01:04:23 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: Urgent Action Needed - Biased panel to set US biotech policy, laws] Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:04:38 -0800 Message-ID: <01be7a62$6e4127a0$b9bca7d1@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Content-Type: text/plain; boundary="------------55455D258E71B3E736E094E5"; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 449 Is this applicable to Canadians ie can we help? Jean From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 00:21:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA19355 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA28757; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from latina.latino.net.co (latina.latino.net.co [207.16.109.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19408 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:34:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from 1 (acc15201.latino.web.co [206.114.25.201]) by latina.latino.net.co (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA23793 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:37:33 -0500 (GMT-0500) From: " bachmans" To: Subject: RV: unsuscribe Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:40:06 -0500 Message-ID: <01be7a56$9f154520$LocalHost@1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE7A2C.B63F3D20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 450 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE7A2C.B63F3D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- De: bachmans Para: bdnow@envirolink.org Fecha: Viernes 26 de Marzo de 1999 04:52 PM Asunto: unsuscribe UNSUSCRIBE ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE7A2C.B63F3D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
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------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE7A2C.B63F3D20-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 00:22:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA19387 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:22:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA28913; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:03:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21155 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d155.infoserve.net [199.175.157.155]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA13486; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:54:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002201be7a60$b998cac0$9b9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: , Subject: Re: [Fwd: Urgent Action Needed - Biased panel to set US biotech policy, laws] Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:51:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 451 Yes., what happens in the US can affect us also. Not only does GE products try to become law here, but,. also we import a lot of US food up here. When they were going to classify what is organic down in the US by the FDA, I did my bit and faxed them what I thought about their bright ideas. M. -----Original Message----- From: Ken, Jean Huffman To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Urgent Action Needed - Biased panel to set US biotech policy, laws] >Is this applicable to Canadians ie can we help? >Jean > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 03:23:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA21374 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 03:23:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA09350; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 03:01:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA02183 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:51:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-149.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.149]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA22818 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 23:54:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <37006627.1C7@ipa.net> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 23:50:31 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Radionics/Vibrational Agriculture Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 452 BD-Now Readers, Here is one more post I want to add as a resource to the list before I unsubscribe during the Spring Rush. =========================================================== =========================================================== Radionics is one the technologies used in eco-farming and bio-dynamic farming for diagnosis and broadcasting of subtle energy frequencies that lead to plant, soil, and animal health. For an overview of the topic, you can read about radionics and see an extensive listing of resources in the ATTRA publication: Radionics In Agriculture http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/alt/radionic.html For more detailed information, there are two recent books on this topic I want to share. Both are written by George Kuepper who has worked with radionics as a practitioner as well as instructor and crop advisor for about 15 years. "Radionics, Reality, and Man: Experimental Principles and Procedures of Radionics for Personal Health and Well-Being" "The text was written to provide a supportive reference for students of radionics. It is intended to serve both as a workbook of techniques, and also as a discussion of radionic philosophy and the physics and metaphysics underlying its practice. The focus is on utilization of basic Hieronymous analytical instruments and others cloned from that model. Detailed instructions for the SE-5 computerized instrument are also provided. Additional guidance on basic pendulum dowsing is also given. User-friendly, the text is written to be understood by the novice, but also contains information useful to experienced practitioners." Published in 1996; over 260 pages with more than 65 drawings and photos and more than 35 tables of radionic rates. "Plants, Soils, Earth Energy, and Radionics" "A follow-up text to "Radionics, Reality & Man", this book details applications of radionics to plant culture, earth energy, and practical needs of home and farmstead. Many of the examples and information provided come directly from the author's experiences using radionics to manage a commercial fruit farm. Still more come from over 20 years of work in sustainable and organic agriculture." Published in 1998; over 190 pages with 24 figures and more than 40 tables of radionic rates. These books are $36.50 each ($32.50 plus $4 p&h) Available through: George Kuepper GAIA P.O. Box 151 Goshen, AR 72735 Whereas in sustainable agriculture circles there still seems to be an emphasis on widely acceptable topics like cover crops and composts and value-added marketing, there is still a gap to recognition and support for alternative technologies such as radionics, cosmic pipes, biodynamic preparations, etc. However, that does not seem to be the case in the parallel field of Complementary and Alternative Medicine where, for example, radionics was featured in the Winter 1997 issue of "Bridges", the magazine of The International Society for the Study of Subtle Energies & Energy Medicine, or ISEEEM. International Society for the Study of Subtle Energies and Energy Medicine, ISSSEEM http://www.nekesc.org/~issseem/ Finally, it may be helpful to place radionics in the context of an emerging field known as vibrational agriculture. There is a term, coined after the title of a popular book, called Vibrational Medicine which describes many of the energy-based holistic human health practices like homeopathy, acupuncture, magneto-therapy, Shiatsu massage, cranial-sacro therapy, ayurveda, etc. In a similar vein, radionics and bio-dynamics and Reams' Biological Theory of Ionization and Luebke's Vitality Theory of Soil Fertility and Sarkar's Microvita Theory and homeopathy in agriculture etc. can all be understood as a collective body of concepts and technologies known as Vibrational Agriculture. Likewise, efforts to re-energize and restore water with flow forms and magnets and microhydrin crystals and biological remediation technologies such as constructed wetlands can be characterized as complementary components of Vibrational Water. Steve Diver =================================================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 05:30:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA22446 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:30:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA16423; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:12:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA16251 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:10:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.81] (client-151-196-125-81.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.81]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA10451 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:12:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903301012.FAA10451@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:13:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Am I reaching you? (Pest Control)] From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 453 I'm getting your messages Martin -- but you don't seem to be getting my replies. - Steven ---------- >From: Martin Nyberg >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: [Fwd: Am I reaching you? (Pest Control)] >Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999, 12:59 PM > > If any of you responded to the email below, I did not receive it due to > forwarding problems. I believe these problems are fixed now. Resend if you > would like. > > Martin > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > >> If you are there (BDNOW list group), I would like to pose a question to anyone >> familiar with two pests: >> >> sinfilins (sp?) >> pea weavils >> >> In the Northwest we have sinfilins and they can become a disaster by eating >> roots of all crops. They are small soil dwellers (look like miniature >> millipedes, about a 1/4 inch long max.) who like wet soils. According to >> Steve Solomon, there is no way to get rid of them save going fallow for at >> least a two year rotation to starve them out. Their only enemies are black >> beetles (forget the scientific name). I have a bad infestation in an isolated >> portion of my property but I NEED to grow there this spring. >> >> Pea Weavils are munching the tender young leaves of my pea sprouts. I have >> not heard of any organic method of damage control. >> >> I sure hope I am on the list now. I am not receiving my own posts like I used >> to so I have no way of knowing unless someone replies to this post. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Martin Nyberg > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 05:31:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA22457 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA16621; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:15:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA16477 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:13:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.89] (pm3shep3-163-156.intrepid.net [209.190.163.156]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02302 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:16:24 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37006627.1C7@ipa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:18:56 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Radionics/Vibrational Agriculture Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 454 Steve Diver touted: >Luebke's Vitality Theory of Soil Fertility Steve - It was my impression that these folks simply repackaged and promoted Pfeiffer's ideas without giving credit where credit is due. Have you done an indepth write-up on them? Thanks -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 10:46:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00349 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:46:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA11647; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:30:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11040 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:26:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-155.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.155]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA07606 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:29:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3700ECE0.249D@ipa.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:25:20 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Radionics/Vibrational Agriculture References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 455 Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > Steve Diver touted: > > Luebke's Vitality Theory of Soil Fertility > > Steve - It was my impression that these folks simply repackaged and > promoted Pfeiffer's ideas without giving credit where credit is due. > Have you done an indepth write-up on them? > > Thanks > > -Allan Balliett Firstly, I detect a lack of netiquette on the part of the list faciliator, and secondly, a lack of appreciation and understanding of the *value* of modern day humus workers like Siegfried Luebke of Austria. I could reply with another long post in response to Allan's query, as an addition to the collective knowledge base of BD-Now, but as I said in my previous post it is the Spring season and my schedule is very busy. In addition, I feel that Allan's reply is an example of an email thread that misses the jewels in the muck. Instead of grasping and appreciating the totality of the thread, there is a focus on the minutae. Note that the topic was radionics, with a review of two very substantial books including how you can obtain them, that mostly likely few readers on BD-Now knew existed. In addition to the very useful and solid radionic resources, there was an introduction to whole new terminology in Vibrational Agriculture and Vibrational Water. These terms, which evolved here in the Ozarks through my research and association with world-class vibrational workers, embody whole levels of conceptual and practical information that will help save the planet in the nearer term as well as become part of mainstream science as the Era of Subtle Energy takes hold over the next 25 to 50 years. Finally, Allan, I think you are way off base in your analysis of the Pfeiffer-Luebke dichotomy, since no such schism occurs except in the minds of a few dinosaur biodynamic types. You should get together with Hugh Courtney down in Virginia, there you two can huff and puff and grumble and frown all day long. But in the end, what good will it do? For the record, I addressed this topic in my presentation at the Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference in Charles Town, WV. Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 11:00:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00645 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:00:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA13576; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:45:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from aristotle.net (aristotle.net [204.233.139.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13478 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [199.240.82.142] (pmppp142.aristotle.net [199.240.82.142]) by aristotle.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08391 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:47:44 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:47:44 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: vinnie@aristotle.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: BDNow@envirolink.org From: vinnie Subject: unsubscribe Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 456 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 11:23:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01122 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:23:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16636; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:06:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16257 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:04:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] ([208.210.143.52]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21037 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:07:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:46:01 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Organic Ag and the Many Hands of THE GOVERNMENT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 457 > >Besides the theme of gov't working in a splintered and sometimes >contradictory way, I want to report back to you on the state of >National Standards. Many of you were involved in the HUGE outpouring >of protest the last time these standards were presented (since they >tried to include sewage sludge, irradiation, and GMOs in the >definition of organic) and may harbor resentments toward the people >that were responsible for that disaster. But I want to tell you how >impressed I was with Keith Jones, the new director of AMS, and how >hopeful I feel about the next standards proposal which is expected by >the end of the summer. Keith comes accross as a straight talking, >straight shooting Texan who certainly is rooted in fundamental >economic concepts (and therefore can talk the language of the >business folks) but he's also a former rancher (not just a pasty soft >bureaucrat) and seems genuinely concerned with the fundamental >tennents of organic agriculture as most people in the organic ag >community understand it. He's also committed to drafting rules that >will allow trade with the EU. Now, some of you might call me a >Polyanna, but I just wanted to tell you that the meeting was very >reassuring to me. But this doesn't, of course, mean that THE >GOVERNMENT is committed to organic ag and will hereafter have a >coordinated policy toward it. Quite the contrary! I expect that it >will continue in it's usual push me-pull me fashion with one hand >feeding the Monsonto's and the other hand drafting Farm Bills with >sustainablility, soil conservation, wetland protection, and perhaps >organic ag clauses. It's just the nature of the beast! > >Regards, Anita Dear Anita, Your e-mails show you've got a notion about politics and what is requried to forge some kind of concensus. Despite its admitted negatives, the Clinton presidency is a hallmark of a greater will to achieve concensus than any other presidency I can remember (and I go back to Truman). I believe this spirit was strong with FDR, and gave his presidency a flavor of broad support, though, again, there were admitted negatives such as his huge additions to bureaucracy. I thinkthat whatever we do we are going to have negatives. But, how does one forge concensus? I've very distrustful in general of anything coming from the government. There's a lot of lies and misdirection coming from government, and a lot of abuse of power, but I like the direction you're working in. Sure, our government is a fractured personality taken to logarithmic powers, but we have to deal with what we've got. That's realistic. Let's see where we can get to from where we are. Go for it, Anita. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 11:24:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01128 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:23:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16589; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:06:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16225 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] ([208.210.143.52]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21010 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:07:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199903251802.NAA24212@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:39:40 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 458 > >Hi Pam: > >In a hot and arid climate, I guess you need to water it throughly when you >build the pile and then re-water it as need it when you move the pile (if >you do move it). Here I always cover loosely my piles to cut down on >evaporation during the dry season and nutrients running out during the >rainy season, I do it with nylon but you can do it also with natural stuff >such as clay, large leafs (here some people use banana leafs), etc. > >The nylon that I use also promotes the decay of the outer parts of the >material, by keeping it moistier (due to evaporation and condensation) >than the inner parts, so there is less need to move the piles. Another >good thing about the plastic-nylon is that it keeps a microenvironment >where all sorts of creatures live. I have lizards, toads and all sort of >arachnids and insects living bellow the nylon covers, even now (dry >season) that such life has gone dormant elsewhere. > >I have mean temperatures of 90 F year round, 80 % humidity in the rainy >season (july-october), 20 % humidity in the dry season and, I am able to >get finished compost in about three months using manures, grinded greens >and browns and plenty of water. > >Hope this helps. > > >Guillermo Romero I. >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > Dear Pam and Guillermo, Visiting Ed Mendoza, the farmer at the Gila River Indian Community in southern Arizona, last January I was impressed at his patient approach to composting and mulching in that low moisture environment. One of the things he did was stacking crop residues and other compostables on beds and taking a full year or more breaking them down, and what a wonderfully rich ecology this created, not only with flora (plants) but with fauna (animals). He didn't have shredders or anything high tech except his drip irrigation system. So he stacked and let things get brittle, brittle and walked on them to break them up (and break them down). It was artfully done with a wonderful insight into nature that I can't describe but can only admire. I don't know much about arid climates, but Ed understood them from his whole life experience and believe me it gave "fallow ground" a meaning it could never have in my 70 inch rainfall environment. I think one of the most insightful things about Ed's method of--not sheet composting, but bed/mulch composting--was it took otherwise arid land that had too little organic matter and gave it a blanket that drew in life energy, held on to it and built it up over much larger areas than if you stacked everything in a pile and got a rapid decomposition. If you poked into his coarse, heavy bed mulches after they'd been there a year you stirred into a teeming community of all kinds of things scurrying here and there. I was really impressed. He was bringing land to life in situ (right there in place) so that when the fallow year was over and you forked everything up and grew a drip irrigated crop you had wonderful fertility. It was an education just seeing it. It was nothing like the piles we build in wet climates with fast decomposition and all the work of hauling and spreading. He took the organic matter and used it to generate dynamic life activity. Maybe he thought of it as doing the sensible, easy thing whith what he had, no big thing, but woe is on this earth because such things are NOT usually done. My hat's off to this guy, but he doesn't have e-mail so far as I know. You might call him at 520 568 3509 (home, evenings). I hope he doesn't mind, and he speaks fluent Spanish. He is very special and I don't know if he realizes how much insight his small acreage showed me he had, but let me tell you this guy had some good ideas about bringing arid land to life. Best, Hugh Lovel Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 12:09:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02063 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:09:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA24396; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:53:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (smtp1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA23670 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:49:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903301649.LAA23670@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 9361 invoked from network); 30 Mar 1999 09:52:53 -0700 Received: from ts2-29.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO ?209.161.18.180?) (209.161.18.180) by smtp1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 1999 09:52:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:52:04 -0700 Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate From: "Pam DeTray" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 459 Dear Hugh, Thanks for looking in on this. Ed's method, as you describe it, is exactly how I've created soil around here for the last 9 years. I developed soil on my little property as a result of a succession of piles of whatever materials I could get my hands on, and most of what I grew was used to feed those piles, not human bodies! This is the first year I've really had enough soil everywhere to grow a real quantity of "human" food. I used a friend's shredder one year, but couldn't stand the noise. Our basic method was to pile things up (material, handfuls of soil, pinch of finished compost), then have the kids walk around on the piles before we watered them. The next year, we would plant a few veggies in the resulting bed, then the next year, trees, shrubs, and perennial flowers and herbs. Last fall, my preps went into a pile that took all spring and summer to build to a sufficient mass, so I could water as I went. My query on the water content of the compost was due to this being my first classic one-ton BD pile, also my first use of new, wet manure. I've never been so "technical" in my approach before this, but I've never grown food for humans on the scale we plan this year. Thanks again, even though I'm a little jealous of your 70" rainfall! ----------------------------------------------------- Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net ---------- >From: Hugh Lovel >Visiting Ed Mendoza, the farmer at the Gila River Indian Community in >southern Arizona, last January I was impressed at his patient approach to >composting and mulching in that low moisture environment. One of the things >he did was stacking crop residues and other compostables on beds and taking >a full year or more breaking them down, and what a wonderfully rich ecology >this created, not only with flora (plants) but with fauna (animals). He >didn't have shredders or anything high tech except his drip irrigation >system. So he stacked and let things get brittle, brittle and walked on >them to break them up (and break them down). It was artfully done with a >wonderful insight into nature that I can't describe but can only admire. I >don't know much about arid climates, but Ed understood them from his whole >life experience and believe me it gave "fallow ground" a meaning it could >never have in my 70 inch rainfall environment. > >I think one of the most insightful things about Ed's method of--not sheet >composting, but bed/mulch composting--was it took otherwise arid land that >had too little organic matter and gave it a blanket that drew in life >energy, held on to it and built it up over much larger areas than if you >stacked everything in a pile and got a rapid decomposition. If you poked >into his coarse, heavy bed mulches after they'd been there a year you >stirred into a teeming community of all kinds of things scurrying here and >there. I was really impressed. He was bringing land to life in situ (right >there in place) so that when the fallow year was over and you forked >everything up and grew a drip irrigated crop you had wonderful fertility. >It was an education just seeing it. It was nothing like the piles we build >in wet climates with fast decomposition and all the work of hauling and >spreading. He took the organic matter and used it to generate dynamic life >activity. Maybe he thought of it as doing the sensible, easy thing whith >what he had, no big thing, but woe is on this earth because such things are >NOT usually done. > >My hat's off to this guy, but he doesn't have e-mail so far as I know. You >might call him at 520 568 3509 (home, evenings). I hope he doesn't mind, >and he speaks fluent Spanish. He is very special and I don't know if he >realizes how much insight his small acreage showed me he had, but let me >tell you this guy had some good ideas about bringing arid land to life. > >Best, >Hugh Lovel From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 12:11:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02144 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA24869; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:56:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA24339 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:53:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A908B7@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:56:06 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 30 Mar 99 11:55:59 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 30 Mar 99 11:55:45 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:55:38 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Organic Ag and the Many Hands of THE GOVERNMENT Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1331D5D504F@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 460 Thank you, Hugh! That means a lot to me. I was also wondering if anyone was going to comment on my post and wondering if bd-ers out there were thinking that national standards or international trade viability were not relevant to them. I hope that's not the case! Thanks again Hugh for your acknowledgement and kind words. Anita > Dear Anita, > > Your e-mails show you've got a notion about politics and what is > requried to forge some kind of concensus. Despite its admitted > negatives, the Clinton presidency is a hallmark of a greater will to > achieve concensus than any other presidency I can remember (and I go > back to Truman). I believe this spirit was strong with FDR, and gave > his presidency a flavor of broad support, though, again, there were > admitted negatives such as his huge additions to bureaucracy. I > thinkthat whatever we do we are going to have negatives. > > But, how does one forge concensus? I've very distrustful in general > of anything coming from the government. There's a lot of lies and > misdirection coming from government, and a lot of abuse of power, > but I like the direction you're working in. Sure, our government is > a fractured personality taken to logarithmic powers, but we have to > deal with what we've got. That's realistic. Let's see where we can > get to from where we are. Go for it, Anita. > > Best, > > > Hugh Lovel > Blairsville, Georgia > > > >Besides the theme of gov't working in a splintered and sometimes > >contradictory way, I want to report back to you on the state of > >National Standards. Many of you were involved in the HUGE outpouring > >of protest the last time these standards were presented (since they > >tried to include sewage sludge, irradiation, and GMOs in the > >definition of organic) and may harbor resentments toward the people > >that were responsible for that disaster. But I want to tell you how > >impressed I was with Keith Jones, the new director of AMS, and how > >hopeful I feel about the next standards proposal which is expected by > >the end of the summer. Keith comes accross as a straight talking, > >straight shooting Texan who certainly is rooted in fundamental > >economic concepts (and therefore can talk the language of the > >business folks) but he's also a former rancher (not just a pasty soft > >bureaucrat) and seems genuinely concerned with the fundamental > >tennents of organic agriculture as most people in the organic ag > >community understand it. He's also committed to drafting rules that > >will allow trade with the EU. Now, some of you might call me a > >Polyanna, but I just wanted to tell you that the meeting was very > >reassuring to me. But this doesn't, of course, mean that THE > >GOVERNMENT is committed to organic ag and will hereafter have a > >coordinated policy toward it. Quite the contrary! I expect that it > >will continue in it's usual push me-pull me fashion with one hand > >feeding the Monsonto's and the other hand drafting Farm Bills with > >sustainablility, soil conservation, wetland protection, and perhaps > >organic ag clauses. It's just the nature of the beast! > > > >Regards, Anita > > Dear Anita, > > Your e-mails show you've got a notion about politics and what is requried > to forge some kind of concensus. Despite its admitted negatives, the > Clinton presidency is a hallmark of a greater will to achieve concensus > than any other presidency I can remember (and I go back to Truman). I > believe this spirit was strong with FDR, and gave his presidency a flavor > of broad support, though, again, there were admitted negatives such as his > huge additions to bureaucracy. I thinkthat whatever we do we are going to > have negatives. > > But, how does one forge concensus? I've very distrustful in general of > anything coming from the government. There's a lot of lies and misdirection > coming from government, and a lot of abuse of power, but I like the > direction you're working in. Sure, our government is a fractured > personality taken to logarithmic powers, but we have to deal with what > we've got. That's realistic. Let's see where we can get to from where we > are. Go for it, Anita. > > Best, > > > Hugh Lovel > Blairsville, Georgia > > "No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." > --Walter Russell > > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 12:54:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03154 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:54:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01186; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:38:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ww156.netaddress.usa.net (ww156.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.56]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00807 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:36:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9173 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Mar 1999 17:39:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19990330173936.9172.qmail@ww156.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.56 by ww156 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.30) on Tue Mar 30 17:39:35 GMT 1999 Date: 30 Mar 99 12:39:35 EST From: jamie chenoweth To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: unsubscribe bdnow X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.30) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id MAA00808 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 461 unsubscribe bdnow ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 12:59:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03265 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:59:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01621; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:41:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.hurontel.on.ca (mail.hurontel.on.ca [205.206.182.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01444 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:40:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from MERLINFR (clifford-212.wcl.on.ca [216.46.132.212]) by mail.hurontel.on.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA28346 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:55:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:55:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903301755.MAA28346@mail.hurontel.on.ca> X-Sender: merlinvf@mail.wcl.on.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: From: Joe Von Frankenberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 462 From: "WRP" To: Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:21:09 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN UNSUBSCRIBE BD NOW! Joe von Frankenberg rr1 Elmwood N0G 1S0 ONTARIO CN From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 13:18:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03868 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05142; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:03:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ww181.netaddress.usa.net (ww181.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.81]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04659 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:00:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 26302 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Mar 1999 18:04:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19990330180404.26301.qmail@ww181.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.81 by ww181 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.30) on Tue Mar 30 18:04:04 GMT 1999 Date: 30 Mar 99 10:04:04 PST From: fairmont StateColllege To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: unsubscribe bdnow X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.30) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id NAA04669 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 463 unsubscribe bdnow ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 16:37:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08635 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:37:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA06921; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:23:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06562 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:21:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp300.cy-net.net [208.21.195.109]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03531 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:24:32 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7ABF.FDF3AD20@FLYLO>; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:14:23 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7ABF.FDF3AD20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: dropping like flies & mycorrhizal fungi & Melissa Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:14:00 -0600 Encoding: 27 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 464 BD Now mems seem to be bailing out like ... flies? Hope it's just Spring's busy season. Oh well, more info for the rest of us! Question: I (hooray, it's running) finally got the tractor up and motivated enough to mow some acreage. Ordered seed for hay, and am thinking it gets SO DRY midsummer in Texas, about inoculating the seed with mycorrhizal fungi. Supposed to be great for nutrient - attracting and moisture - attracting qualities. Actually, you don't 'inoculate' the seed, the seed is merely a carrier for the spores to get to the soil. My banana pup had it as a baby and you should see it now! Has anyone had experience with this type of fungal inoculant? A bit pricey, $75 for a 3 lb tub which should do 3 acres. I have 8 - 12 acres (depending on how thick/thin I decide the seed must go out) to plant to hay this season. Thinking about just doing one container's worth and marking it off to see the differences. But, would like input from someone who has actually used the stuff on commercial scale first. thanks martha Oh, and a PS: If anyone finds Melissa in their computer system, go here: ByeMelissa.doc is a free download from the ZDNet Software Library. This program scans for the virus and fixes problems it caused. http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdna990330/hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis /swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=000YPG&b=product From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 17:35:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09760 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:35:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14899; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:16:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14727 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:15:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp52.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.152]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA05559 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:15:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000f01be7afa$b162afc0$984b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Valerian culture Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:14:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 465 Dear Friends, I have been coddling a Valerian plant throughout the winter in my kitchen window sill. It has begrudgingly survived, giving me some root trimmings, (whose strength I underestimated - once!) and I'm thinking it is time to put it outside where it will be much happier. Any thoughts on best placement? Soil preference? Sunny, sandy, moist, shady, near the compost heap? Should I take the plant outside & try asking it? Any Valerian experts feel free to jump in here... I have tried to develop a relationship with this plant, so that I could recognize it on the farm (I'm sure its here somewhere:-)) and because I think the farm needs 507. (Phosphorus seems low here, or unavailable...I have found every other prep plant here...except Valerian). And perhaps if I become acquainted with it, acknowledge it...ok - WORSHIP it, maybe this will help with the phosphorus situation... This plant is my pal, so where should I put it? Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 17:58:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA10195 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:58:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA11259; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:54:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10913 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A9615A@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:54:37 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 30 Mar 99 16:54:31 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 30 Mar 99 16:54:30 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:54:25 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Organic and livestock Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01BE7825.EC6DE260@FLYLO> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <138183B4296@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 466 > Thanks, Anita for an uplifting post on organic certification program. > (Happy to see that a Texan doesn' t have his hand in the Chem Ag till.) > I was receiving the bulletins as they modified and ratified the NOSB regs, > but have not received anything in over a year or so. Recently they sent out > a flier that they'd like to contact by e-mail to save postage and I agreed, > so there may be some snags in the changeover. > I've been certified Organic several years ago, (market vegetables) but > decided not to pay for the licensing again until they settle all the dust > on what is or what is not OG. Martha, thanks for the feedback! I'm way behind on bd posts, but I did look through the subject headings this morning before I posted a reply to Hugh saying that no one was commenting on my USDA post. I was fooled by the new heading you put on this. So, as I make my way through over a screen's worth of posts, I appologize if I missed (and therefore seemed to have discounted) any other responses to my national standards post. > The way I understand it, as soon as it quit > being a State regulated dept and went National is where the major > mess started. (I'm sure it's more detailed than that, but I'm not > into details this morning!) Just to comment here. State standards might be okey if export were not a priority for the organic ag community. Obviously it only touches a minority (at this point, anyway), but I think it's important enough to warrant national standards. Certification is up for a major overhall when the National Organic Program is put into place and things will change on many different planes, but the issue of organic has just gotten too big for it's current britches. National standards will have both good and bad effects, but as long as it will not be prohibitively expensive for the small producer, I think (I pray!) that it will be worth it. It will certainly make it harder for slackers masquerading as organic producers. Just as an aside, start looking for who the certifier is on the "organic" products you buy. Since I have gotten into this, I have been suprised by several things. One of these things is that a product can say "organic" but not be under the oversight of any particular certifying agent just by saying "grown in accordance with the California Organic SomethingOrOther" (I can't remember the exact words), but it's some funny loophole that basically means they're on their own regognicense (sp?). I, for one, am not totally confident in this. So glad to see you've found a good market for your goat milk, Martha. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 17:58:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA10203 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:58:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14374; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:12:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14121 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:11:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d149.infoserve.net [199.175.157.149]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03929 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:17:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000c01be7afa$cc3fd2a0$959dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: dropping like flies & mycorrhizal fungi & Melissa Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:14:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 467 Dear Martha, many thanks for the Melissa and other warnings. It seems to have been aimed more at large corporations (according to TV and newspaper), and, interestingly enough, here in British Columbia and Vancouver, it hardly touched anybody. Not enough large corps., I guess. I did enjoy the Vancouver Sun'snewspaper headline; "Commuter group warns users of macro virus lurking in e-mail". I do hope the next time I commute in my car I don't catch a virus other than colds or flus-and even then....! Michael -----Original Message----- From: Martha Wells To: 'Biodynamic Now' Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 1:30 PM Subject: dropping like flies & mycorrhizal fungi & Melissa >BD Now mems seem to be bailing out like ... flies? Hope it's just Spring's >busy season. > >Oh well, more info for the rest of us! Question: >I (hooray, it's running) finally got the tractor up and motivated enough to >mow some acreage. Ordered seed for hay, and am thinking it gets SO DRY >midsummer in Texas, about inoculating the seed with mycorrhizal fungi. > Supposed to be great for nutrient - attracting and moisture - attracting >qualities. Actually, you don't 'inoculate' the seed, the seed is merely a >carrier for the spores to get to the soil. >My banana pup had it as a baby and you should see it now! > >Has anyone had experience with this type of fungal inoculant? >A bit pricey, $75 for a 3 lb tub which should do 3 acres. I have 8 - 12 >acres (depending on how thick/thin I decide the seed must go out) to plant >to hay this season. Thinking about just doing one container's worth and >marking it off to see the differences. But, would like input from someone >who has actually used the stuff on commercial scale first. >thanks >martha > >Oh, and a PS: If anyone finds Melissa in their computer system, go here: >ByeMelissa.doc is a free download from the ZDNet Software Library. >This program scans for the virus and fixes problems it caused. >http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdna990330/hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis >/swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=000YPG&b=product > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 18:14:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10455 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:14:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA20953; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:01:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17881 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:37:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (tor-pm-5-142.netrover.com [205.209.27.142]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27770 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:40:49 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: "bdnow" Subject: Fw: Traitor Technology Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:45:53 -0500 Message-ID: <01be7aff$11152480$7515d1cd@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 468 -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Newman To: Rochelle Eisen ; Doug Cooper ; Manfred Palmer Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 1:14 PM Subject: Traitor Technology >---------- >From: annie oakley >To: ban@tao.ca >Subject: BAN: Fwd: traitor technology >Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 11:33 PM > > >Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) >News Release >29 March 1999 >http://www.rafi.org > > > ** TRAITOR TECHNOLOGY: "Damaged Goods" from the Gene Giants ** > > --------------------------------------------------------- > New report from RAFI details over 2 dozen "Terminator II" > patents that link suicide seeds to proprietary chemicals, > genetically-weakened plants, and the patented power to > make genetically-inviable plants rise from the dead. > --------------------------------------------------------- > >Beyond the prognostications of even its most pessimistic critics, >Terminator science is snowballing into the corporate profit centre of the >next decade and beyond. And, if the major seed and agrochemical >multinationals have their way, Terminator and Traitor (negative trait) >technologies will come on the heels of the new millennium to a farm near >you. RAFI's Executive Director Pat Mooney declares, "With this report and >our previous work on the Terminator, RAFI is sounding the alarm that >without government action, these technologies will be commercialized within >a few years with potentially disastrous consequences." > >Says RAFI Programme Officer Edward Hammond, "Since we discovered the >original Terminator patent a year ago, even at our most pessimistic we >never forecast negative trait genetic engineering to explode as quickly as >it has." Most observers thought there would be a delay of two or three >years before second and third generation Terminator refinements were >patented; but instead says Hammond, "a survey of patent offices reveals >that the cat is completely out of the bag. In fact, the original Terminator >may be a dead letter because enhanced Terminator seeds are already in the >laboratory." > >RAFI reports that every Gene Giant multinational has patented, or admits it >is working on genetically-sterilized or chemically-dependent seeds. RAFI's >report provides details and analysis on over two dozen such patents >recently obtained by 12 institutions. The patents seek to exploit - or >could exploit - new genetic engineering techniques that use inducible >promoters to disable critical plant functions governing reproduction, >disease resistance, and seed viability. > >If commercialization of such seeds proceeds, farmers worldwide will be >tangled in an expensive web of chemicals, intellectual property, and >disabled germplasm that leads to bioserfdom. The technology spells >disaster for farmers and global food security because over three quarters >of the world's farmers - mainly poor farmers - depend on farm saved seed. >The complete removal of farmers from the age-old process of plant breeding >through sterilized seed could also signify a disastrous narrowing of the >genepool on which everyone depends for food security. > >SCARY SCOPE: According to RAFI's Research Director Hope Shand, "The >patents describe the use of external chemicals to turn on and off genetic >traits in plants and go well beyond DeltaPine's original 'Terminator' >patent. They are techniques to control a wide variety of 'input' and >'output' (production and processing) traits by spraying with proprietary >herbicides or fertilizers. Others take us beyond crop plants to the use of >Terminator-style tactics on insects and even possibly mammals." > >KILLER GENES, JUNKIE SEEDS, AND MODERN-DAY "MIRACLES": Some patents aim to >switch the plant's germination on or off. AstraZeneca's Verminator patents >use what it calls 'killer genes' for this purpose. Yet AstraZeneca has >been telling governments, scientists, and the press that despite their >continuing pursuit of its patents around the world, they won't stop farmers >from saving seed. RAFI's Pat Mooney says, "Something didn't add up, so we >set out to investigate." > >Newly discovered patent claims explain the confusing AstraZeneca position. >The new patents refine AstraZeneca's "Verminator" technology that links >plant growth and germination to repeated application of proprietary >chemicals. Without specific patented chemicals, the plant doesn't grow. >"Essentially," says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "they're talking about the >manufacture of junkie plants that are physically dependent on a patented >chemical cocktail." AstraZeneca says it will patent the technology in 77 >countries. > >See AstraZeneca's Verminator II patent: >http://wo.dips.org/search97cgi/s97is.dll?Action=View&ViewTemplate=ep/en/vie w >er.h >ts&SearchType=4&VdkVgwKey=9735983 > >Says RAFI's Mooney, "So, you see AstraZeneca and the other Gene Giants >don't want farmers to buy new seed every year so much as to force them to >repurchase their old seed." Monsanto is already pioneering such 'pay by >the generation' techniques through legal means - the infamous grower >agreements - in the US and Canada; but research is steering toward >biological means of achieving the same sad end. Mooney says "It will be >vastly more profitable for multinationals to sell seeds programmed to >commit suicide at harvest so that farmers must pay the company to obtain >the chemicals to have them re-activated for the next planting - either >through a seed conditioning process or through the purchase of a >specialized chemicals that bring saved seed back to life, Lazarus-style." > >"In effect, this shifts all the seed costs to farmers, and the companies >won't have to multiply, ship, and warehouse massive seed stocks," Hammond >adds, "As the seed oligopoly strengthens, companies will have less and less >incentive to invest in plant breeding research, after all they'll already >have the farmers in a position of utter dependency." Pat Mooney agrees, >"With these 'Lazarus-link seeds' the advertising investment will continue >but the research investment will wither away." > >GENETIC MUTILATION: An especially disturbing feature of some of the new >patents profiled in RAFI's report is the deliberate disabling of natural >plant functions that help to fight disease. Swiss biotech giant Novartis >is most advanced in this aspect of Traitor technology. Novartis blandly >refers to it as "inactivation of endogenous regulation" so that "genes >which are natively regulated can be regulated exclusively by the >application to the plant of a chemical regulator." > >Among the genes which Novartis can control in this manner are patented SAR >(systemic acquired resistance) genes which are critical to plant's ability >to fight off infections from many viruses and bacteria. Thus, Novartis has >patented techniques to create plants with natural healthy functions turned >off. "The only way to turn them back on and fix these 'damaged goods' " >says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "is, well, you guessed it, the application of a >propietary chemical." > >See the Novartis antisense regulation of SAR systems patent: >http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1 & >u=/n >etahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,650,505'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,650,505&RS=PN/ 5 >,650 >,505 > >TIGHT-LIPPED MONSANTO: Caught like a deer in the headlights during recent >battles over genetically-modified plants - especially in Europe - Monsanto >has sought to deflect questions and criticism about Terminator technology >by saying that the Terminator belongs to its soon-to-be subsidiary Delta >and Pine Land Company. As such, the oft-repeated PR position goes, Monsanto >doesn't yet have access to the Terminator and can't inform concerned >governments and people about plans for Terminator seed. > >"It's been their mantra across the world." says RAFI's Mooney, "We've heard >the same confusing statements from Monsanto representatives in New Zealand, >India, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Brazil, the EU, and the US." Even last week, at a >Harvard University presentation, Monsanto's representative similarly >shrugged off the question. "In fact," says RAFI's Mooney, "it's a >deliberate ploy - or, at best, incomplete information - that obfuscates >facts about the company's own research agenda. Monsanto already has its >own in-house, patented Terminator technology, which it says it will patent >in a whopping 89 countries. Obviously, the company is not being >forthright. If Monsanto doesn't start coming clean, it risks further >damage to its already tarnished image." > >See Monsanto's Terminator II patent: >http://wo.dips.org/search97cgi/s97is.dll?Action=View&ViewTemplate=ep/en/vie w >er.h >ts&SearchType=4&VdkVgwKey=9744465 > >WILL TERMINATOR WORK? RAFI notes that some plant scientists are skeptical >that Traitor Technology will work successfully in the field. Monsanto, one >of the original Traitor Tech proponents, is encouraging this view. There >is no doubt that Traitor Tech will be continually refined as it moves >toward the market; but terminator plants are already in the greenhouse and >profit estimates are being calculated. "It's only a matter of time. Every >major pesticide-producing Gene Giant is hard at work perfecting the >technology." Shand adds, "Companies don't patent for the fun of the >paperwork and paying lawyer's fees. Those who think corporations will drop >the Terminator - or think it won't make it to market - are living in >Fantasyland. There's too much money to be made. Unless it is banned by >governments, Terminator is going to happen, and probably sooner rather than >later." > >WILL FARMERS BUY IT? Delta & Pine Land and Monsanto insist that no one >will force farmers to buy Terminator seed. The real question is, will >farmers have a choice? The commercial seed industry is imploding, and a >handful of Gene Giants already control a rapidly expanding share of major >seed markets. After DuPont announced earlier this month that it would buy >Pioneer Hi-Bred, the world's largest seed company, the Wall Street Journal >concluded that the deal "effectively divides" most of the US seed industry >between DuPont and Monsanto. With the disappearance of public sector plant >breeders, farmers are becoming increasingly vulnerable and have fewer >choices in the marketplace. > >TERMINATING THE TERMINATOR: RAFI and its partners around the world are >contacting governments asking them to declare all of the Terminator-style >patent claims as contrary to ordre public. In January, Global Response (a >US based non-profit organization) encouraged its 4,000 members in forty >countries to write to the Director-General of FAO asking him to oppose the >Terminator as a matter of world food security. FAO has replied that >governments may take up the issue in Rome April 19 to 23 during the meeting >of the FAO Commission on Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture. RAFI >will be at that meeting and will make a presentation to governments. >Further, concerned individuals from 71 countries have sent almost 7,000 >letters to US Agriculture Secretary Glickman asking him to ban the >Terminator. > >Although global opposition is mounting, RAFI worries that the UN's >Biodiversity Convention may go "soft" on the environmental and social >implications of the technology. When the Convention meets in Montreal in >June, it is to receive a scientific study on Terminator. "We will read and >respond to that study very quickly," Pat Mooney advises. > >------ > >For further information: > >Website: http://www.rafi.org > >Pat Roy Mooney, Executive Director, RAFI >110 Osborne Street South, Suite 202 >Winnipeg, MB, R3L 1Y5 CANADA >Tel: +1 204 453-5259 >Fax: +1 204 925-8134 >E-mail: rafi@rafi.org > >Hope Shand, Research Director, RAFI >Tel: +1 717 337-6482 >Fax: +1 717 337-6499 >E-mail: hope@rafi.org > >Edward Hammond, Programme Officer, RAFI >Tel: +1 206 323-7378 >Fax: +1 206 323-6052 >E-mail: hammond@rafi.org > >-- > > ******************************* >Jeffrey Newman >My personal web site is at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/5759/ >My ICQ number is: 9879310 > >"As a rule, it was the pleasure-haters who became unjust." - W.H. Auden > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 18:23:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10659 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:23:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA22129; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:07:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21446 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:04:17 -0500 (EST) From: HILAWRIGHT@aol.com Received: from HILAWRIGHT@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hIBVa16082 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:05:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e2481a2.3701589e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:05:02 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: burying horns/re Many hands of government Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 176 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 469 Could anyone explain why the horns need to be buried in fertile soil? I've been told for viticulture that you shouldn't bury them in vineyards as the soil there generally isn't fertile enough. Thanks for the postings on the latest on National Standards.What is decided will affect us here in the UK and I have been searching websites wondering why I can't find out what's happening. Thank you BDNow! Hilary Wright London From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 18:39:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10927 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24899; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:26:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24590 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:24:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d141.infoserve.net [199.175.157.141]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA08481 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:30:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001d01be7b05$0010b360$8d9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: Valerian culture Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:25:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 470 Julie, def. sunny. Not sure about the soil etc. Mine just grows. I have both white and red, but, the red is the one for the prep. M. -----Original Message----- From: Julie M. To: BD NOW LIST Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 2:22 PM Subject: Valerian culture >Dear Friends, > >I have been coddling a Valerian plant throughout the winter in my kitchen >window sill. It has begrudgingly survived, giving me some root trimmings, >(whose strength I underestimated - once!) and I'm thinking it is time to put >it outside where it will be much happier. Any thoughts on best placement? >Soil preference? Sunny, sandy, moist, shady, near the compost heap? Should I >take the plant outside & try asking it? Any Valerian experts feel free to >jump in here... > > I have tried to develop a relationship with this plant, so that I could >recognize it on the farm (I'm sure its here somewhere:-)) and because I >think the farm needs 507. (Phosphorus seems low here, or unavailable...I >have found every other prep plant here...except Valerian). And perhaps if I >become acquainted with it, acknowledge it...ok - WORSHIP it, maybe this will >help with the phosphorus situation... > >This plant is my pal, so where should I put it? > >Julie > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 18:40:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10947 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:40:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25005; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:26:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24607 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:24:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d141.infoserve.net [199.175.157.141]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA08484 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:30:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001e01be7b05$00fbafa0$8d9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: Traitor Technology Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:27:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 471 Dear Manfred, I understand Terminator. What is Traitor? M. -----Original Message----- From: manfred palmer To: bdnow Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 3:07 PM Subject: Fw: Traitor Technology > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jeffrey Newman >To: Rochelle Eisen ; Doug Cooper >; Manfred Palmer >Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 1:14 PM >Subject: Traitor Technology > > >>---------- >>From: annie oakley >>To: ban@tao.ca >>Subject: BAN: Fwd: traitor technology >>Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 11:33 PM >> >> >>Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) >>News Release >>29 March 1999 >>http://www.rafi.org >> >> >> ** TRAITOR TECHNOLOGY: "Damaged Goods" from the Gene Giants ** >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> New report from RAFI details over 2 dozen "Terminator II" >> patents that link suicide seeds to proprietary chemicals, >> genetically-weakened plants, and the patented power to >> make genetically-inviable plants rise from the dead. >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Beyond the prognostications of even its most pessimistic critics, >>Terminator science is snowballing into the corporate profit centre of the >>next decade and beyond. And, if the major seed and agrochemical >>multinationals have their way, Terminator and Traitor (negative trait) >>technologies will come on the heels of the new millennium to a farm near >>you. RAFI's Executive Director Pat Mooney declares, "With this report and >>our previous work on the Terminator, RAFI is sounding the alarm that >>without government action, these technologies will be commercialized within >>a few years with potentially disastrous consequences." >> >>Says RAFI Programme Officer Edward Hammond, "Since we discovered the >>original Terminator patent a year ago, even at our most pessimistic we >>never forecast negative trait genetic engineering to explode as quickly as >>it has." Most observers thought there would be a delay of two or three >>years before second and third generation Terminator refinements were >>patented; but instead says Hammond, "a survey of patent offices reveals >>that the cat is completely out of the bag. In fact, the original Terminator >>may be a dead letter because enhanced Terminator seeds are already in the >>laboratory." >> >>RAFI reports that every Gene Giant multinational has patented, or admits it >>is working on genetically-sterilized or chemically-dependent seeds. RAFI's >>report provides details and analysis on over two dozen such patents >>recently obtained by 12 institutions. The patents seek to exploit - or >>could exploit - new genetic engineering techniques that use inducible >>promoters to disable critical plant functions governing reproduction, >>disease resistance, and seed viability. >> >>If commercialization of such seeds proceeds, farmers worldwide will be >>tangled in an expensive web of chemicals, intellectual property, and >>disabled germplasm that leads to bioserfdom. The technology spells >>disaster for farmers and global food security because over three quarters >>of the world's farmers - mainly poor farmers - depend on farm saved seed. >>The complete removal of farmers from the age-old process of plant breeding >>through sterilized seed could also signify a disastrous narrowing of the >>genepool on which everyone depends for food security. >> >>SCARY SCOPE: According to RAFI's Research Director Hope Shand, "The >>patents describe the use of external chemicals to turn on and off genetic >>traits in plants and go well beyond DeltaPine's original 'Terminator' >>patent. They are techniques to control a wide variety of 'input' and >>'output' (production and processing) traits by spraying with proprietary >>herbicides or fertilizers. Others take us beyond crop plants to the use of >>Terminator-style tactics on insects and even possibly mammals." >> >>KILLER GENES, JUNKIE SEEDS, AND MODERN-DAY "MIRACLES": Some patents aim to >>switch the plant's germination on or off. AstraZeneca's Verminator patents >>use what it calls 'killer genes' for this purpose. Yet AstraZeneca has >>been telling governments, scientists, and the press that despite their >>continuing pursuit of its patents around the world, they won't stop farmers >>from saving seed. RAFI's Pat Mooney says, "Something didn't add up, so we >>set out to investigate." >> >>Newly discovered patent claims explain the confusing AstraZeneca position. >>The new patents refine AstraZeneca's "Verminator" technology that links >>plant growth and germination to repeated application of proprietary >>chemicals. Without specific patented chemicals, the plant doesn't grow. >>"Essentially," says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "they're talking about the >>manufacture of junkie plants that are physically dependent on a patented >>chemical cocktail." AstraZeneca says it will patent the technology in 77 >>countries. >> >>See AstraZeneca's Verminator II patent: >>http://wo.dips.org/search97cgi/s97is.dll?Action=View&ViewTemplate=ep/en/vi e >w >>er.h >>ts&SearchType=4&VdkVgwKey=9735983 >> >>Says RAFI's Mooney, "So, you see AstraZeneca and the other Gene Giants >>don't want farmers to buy new seed every year so much as to force them to >>repurchase their old seed." Monsanto is already pioneering such 'pay by >>the generation' techniques through legal means - the infamous grower >>agreements - in the US and Canada; but research is steering toward >>biological means of achieving the same sad end. Mooney says "It will be >>vastly more profitable for multinationals to sell seeds programmed to >>commit suicide at harvest so that farmers must pay the company to obtain >>the chemicals to have them re-activated for the next planting - either >>through a seed conditioning process or through the purchase of a >>specialized chemicals that bring saved seed back to life, Lazarus-style." >> >>"In effect, this shifts all the seed costs to farmers, and the companies >>won't have to multiply, ship, and warehouse massive seed stocks," Hammond >>adds, "As the seed oligopoly strengthens, companies will have less and less >>incentive to invest in plant breeding research, after all they'll already >>have the farmers in a position of utter dependency." Pat Mooney agrees, >>"With these 'Lazarus-link seeds' the advertising investment will continue >>but the research investment will wither away." >> >>GENETIC MUTILATION: An especially disturbing feature of some of the new >>patents profiled in RAFI's report is the deliberate disabling of natural >>plant functions that help to fight disease. Swiss biotech giant Novartis >>is most advanced in this aspect of Traitor technology. Novartis blandly >>refers to it as "inactivation of endogenous regulation" so that "genes >>which are natively regulated can be regulated exclusively by the >>application to the plant of a chemical regulator." >> >>Among the genes which Novartis can control in this manner are patented SAR >>(systemic acquired resistance) genes which are critical to plant's ability >>to fight off infections from many viruses and bacteria. Thus, Novartis has >>patented techniques to create plants with natural healthy functions turned >>off. "The only way to turn them back on and fix these 'damaged goods' " >>says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "is, well, you guessed it, the application of a >>propietary chemical." >> >>See the Novartis antisense regulation of SAR systems patent: >>http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p= 1 >& >>u=/n >>etahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,650,505'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,650,505&RS=PN / >5 >>,650 >>,505 >> >>TIGHT-LIPPED MONSANTO: Caught like a deer in the headlights during recent >>battles over genetically-modified plants - especially in Europe - Monsanto >>has sought to deflect questions and criticism about Terminator technology >>by saying that the Terminator belongs to its soon-to-be subsidiary Delta >>and Pine Land Company. As such, the oft-repeated PR position goes, Monsanto >>doesn't yet have access to the Terminator and can't inform concerned >>governments and people about plans for Terminator seed. >> >>"It's been their mantra across the world." says RAFI's Mooney, "We've heard >>the same confusing statements from Monsanto representatives in New Zealand, >>India, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Brazil, the EU, and the US." Even last week, at a >>Harvard University presentation, Monsanto's representative similarly >>shrugged off the question. "In fact," says RAFI's Mooney, "it's a >>deliberate ploy - or, at best, incomplete information - that obfuscates >>facts about the company's own research agenda. Monsanto already has its >>own in-house, patented Terminator technology, which it says it will patent >>in a whopping 89 countries. Obviously, the company is not being >>forthright. If Monsanto doesn't start coming clean, it risks further >>damage to its already tarnished image." >> >>See Monsanto's Terminator II patent: >>http://wo.dips.org/search97cgi/s97is.dll?Action=View&ViewTemplate=ep/en/vi e >w >>er.h >>ts&SearchType=4&VdkVgwKey=9744465 >> >>WILL TERMINATOR WORK? RAFI notes that some plant scientists are skeptical >>that Traitor Technology will work successfully in the field. Monsanto, one >>of the original Traitor Tech proponents, is encouraging this view. There >>is no doubt that Traitor Tech will be continually refined as it moves >>toward the market; but terminator plants are already in the greenhouse and >>profit estimates are being calculated. "It's only a matter of time. Every >>major pesticide-producing Gene Giant is hard at work perfecting the >>technology." Shand adds, "Companies don't patent for the fun of the >>paperwork and paying lawyer's fees. Those who think corporations will drop >>the Terminator - or think it won't make it to market - are living in >>Fantasyland. There's too much money to be made. Unless it is banned by >>governments, Terminator is going to happen, and probably sooner rather than >>later." >> >>WILL FARMERS BUY IT? Delta & Pine Land and Monsanto insist that no one >>will force farmers to buy Terminator seed. The real question is, will >>farmers have a choice? The commercial seed industry is imploding, and a >>handful of Gene Giants already control a rapidly expanding share of major >>seed markets. After DuPont announced earlier this month that it would buy >>Pioneer Hi-Bred, the world's largest seed company, the Wall Street Journal >>concluded that the deal "effectively divides" most of the US seed industry >>between DuPont and Monsanto. With the disappearance of public sector plant >>breeders, farmers are becoming increasingly vulnerable and have fewer >>choices in the marketplace. >> >>TERMINATING THE TERMINATOR: RAFI and its partners around the world are >>contacting governments asking them to declare all of the Terminator-style >>patent claims as contrary to ordre public. In January, Global Response (a >>US based non-profit organization) encouraged its 4,000 members in forty >>countries to write to the Director-General of FAO asking him to oppose the >>Terminator as a matter of world food security. FAO has replied that >>governments may take up the issue in Rome April 19 to 23 during the meeting >>of the FAO Commission on Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture. RAFI >>will be at that meeting and will make a presentation to governments. >>Further, concerned individuals from 71 countries have sent almost 7,000 >>letters to US Agriculture Secretary Glickman asking him to ban the >>Terminator. >> >>Although global opposition is mounting, RAFI worries that the UN's >>Biodiversity Convention may go "soft" on the environmental and social >>implications of the technology. When the Convention meets in Montreal in >>June, it is to receive a scientific study on Terminator. "We will read and >>respond to that study very quickly," Pat Mooney advises. >> >>------ >> >>For further information: >> >>Website: http://www.rafi.org >> >>Pat Roy Mooney, Executive Director, RAFI >>110 Osborne Street South, Suite 202 >>Winnipeg, MB, R3L 1Y5 CANADA >>Tel: +1 204 453-5259 >>Fax: +1 204 925-8134 >>E-mail: rafi@rafi.org >> >>Hope Shand, Research Director, RAFI >>Tel: +1 717 337-6482 >>Fax: +1 717 337-6499 >>E-mail: hope@rafi.org >> >>Edward Hammond, Programme Officer, RAFI >>Tel: +1 206 323-7378 >>Fax: +1 206 323-6052 >>E-mail: hammond@rafi.org >> >>-- >> >> ******************************* >>Jeffrey Newman >>My personal web site is at >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/5759/ >>My ICQ number is: 9879310 >> >>"As a rule, it was the pleasure-haters who became unjust." - W.H. Auden >> >> > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 18:56:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11240 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:56:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA27446; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27037 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:41:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (cust56.nrvmax6.tor1.netrover.com [206.186.85.56] (may be forged)) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14426 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:44:26 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: "bdnow" Subject: [Off] Fw: Sustainability [long] Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:49:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01be7b07$f48cac80$7515d1cd@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 472 Hi list : I thought : here is another good voice out there. -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Newman Manfred Palmer Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 6:27 PM Subject: Sustainability >Tribune Online News Story >Story ran on March 30, 1999 > >A revolution, row by row > >By JOHN IKERD > >Sustainability was once referred to as "a quiet revolution sweeping across >American agriculture." The revolution continues, but the time for quietness >has passed. > >The current crisis in American agriculture, like the revolution, has been a >quiet one. Thousands of farm families are being forced off the land, an >inevitable consequence, we are told, of technological progress. Farmers are >offered the options of getting bigger, giving in to corporate control or >getting out. > >The crisis is a chronic symptom of the type of agriculture we have been >promoting in this country for the past 50 years, magnified by the brazen >attempts of giant corporations to wrest control from family farms and >complete the industrialization of agriculture. But industrialization is >neither inevitable nor progressive. > >There’s a better way to farm, a better way to produce food and fiber and a >better way to live. We are entering a new era in American agriculture — an >era in which we learn to support people through agriculture rather than >sacrifice their well being to support the industry of agriculture. It’s >time to proclaim a new agricultural revolution. > >Sustainable agriculture and industrial agriculture are two fundamentally >different philosophies—diametrically and irreconcilably opposed. There is >no common ground on which to compromise. > >Our task is made more difficult by institutions that see industrialization >as the only viable option for the future. The government subsidizes our >industrial competitors with everything from tax concessions to direct farm >program payments. We are excluded from traditional markets and prevented >from marketing direct to customers by a maze of complex government >regulations. We are denied equal access to the research and educational >resources of public institutions. > >Others believe agriculture is mostly about products and profits — not >people. To them, if food is cheaper or more convenient, it doesn’t really >matter who produces it or how it is produced. But people do matter. > >About a year ago, when I was recovering from open-heart surgery, I read a >book: "The Life and Major Works of Thomas Paine." Paine, a writer during >the American Revolution, was credited with articulating the ideas of the >Revolution in terms that could be understood by the "common man." He signed >his early writings with the pen name "Common Sense." > >Today, Paine’s work provides valuable insights into how to keep a >revolution from failing — at least when the cause makes common sense. >Sustainable agriculture, like freedom and democracy, is a cause that makes >common sense. > >Paine gave no quarter to the enemies of freedom and democracy. Nothing in >his writings could be mistaken for impartial objectivity. His papers always >extolled the great benefits that would be realized by the colonies once >they had shed the yoke of British rule. And he never doubted that the >American colonists eventually would win their war for independence. > >We must adopt Thomas Paine’s approach to revolutionize American agriculture >— not gradual, incremental changes in farming practices but a fundamentally >different philosophy of farming. The divergence between industrial >agriculture and sustainable agriculture is as great as that between >monarchy and democracy. > >This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the American people. They need >to know the truth about what is happening to American agriculture and why. > >We need to tell them about our new kind of agriculture that will sustain >people, not just the industry of agriculture. And we need to give them >common-sense reasons why the old system cannot be sustained and why >sustainable agriculture is not a luxury but an absolute necessity. > >The current economic system rewards the exploitation of natural resources >and people, and the visible, tangible epitome of that system is the large, >publicly owned corporation. The corporation is the ultimate "economic man" >— motivated always and only by its own short-term self-interest, driven >solely by an insatiable need for profit and growth. This enemy should be >given no quarter. > >An industrial agriculture might be able to meet our food and fiber needs of >today and maybe for another 50 years, but it is degrading and destroying >the very resources — soil, water and energy — upon which it depends. An >industrial agriculture is said to be efficient, but not when one counts the >enormous costs it imposes on the environment and on people in rural >communities. > >Environmentally sound and socially responsible farming operations already >exist — many of them as economically efficient as their industrial >counterparts. We need to tell the general public that sustainability is not >only possible but also logical and, ultimately, essential. > >The industrial agricultural system might have been logical in the past, but >it no longer makes sense. America’s version of industrial agriculture is >very similar to the agriculture that failed miserably in the old Soviet >Union — bringing down the country in the process. Some claim that our >system relies on free markets. But we are turning agriculture over to >multinational corporations that control everything from genetic seed stocks >to supermarket shelves, eliminating all the free markets in between. >Instead of free markets, we have something more like central planning — >little different in principle from the old Soviet industrial agriculture. >And the outcome will be the same: failure. > >Farmers themselves are the architects of the new sustainable agriculture. >They are the explorers, the colonists and the revolutionaries. Like the >revolutionaries who created a democracy, they will confront hardship, >frustration and failure. Ultimately, they will succeed. > >Never doubt the cause is just. Industrial corporate agriculture is not good >for people and thus is not sustainable. It’s just common sense. Agriculture >ultimately must sustain a desirable quality of life for people — on farms, >in rural communities and in the cities. It’s just common sense. Human >civilization cannot be sustained without a sustainable agriculture. > >It’s time for a new revolution in American agriculture. It’s just plain >common sense. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >John Ikerd is a professor of agricultural economics at MU. This paper was >presented in the opening session of the March 24 "Sustaining People Through >Agriculture" conference in Columbia. > >-- > > ******************************* > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 19:06:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA12464 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:06:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA28363; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:50:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27939 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:47:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (cust56.nrvmax6.tor1.netrover.com [206.186.85.56] (may be forged)) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA16179 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:51:01 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: Traitor Technology Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:55:58 -0500 Message-ID: <01be7b08$db9ce540$7515d1cd@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 473 Dear Michael : I'm not the author, but as it shows in brackets after Traitor,[no doubt a coined term, it refers, I assume to the characteristics of negative traits in the "seed". ...........manfred -----Original Message----- From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Traitor Technology >Dear Manfred, > > I understand Terminator. What is Traitor? M. >-----Original Message----- >From: manfred palmer >To: bdnow >Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 3:07 PM >Subject: Fw: Traitor Technology > > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jeffrey Newman >>To: Rochelle Eisen ; Doug Cooper >>; Manfred Palmer >>Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 1:14 PM >>Subject: Traitor Technology >> >> >>>---------- >>>From: annie oakley >>>To: ban@tao.ca >>>Subject: BAN: Fwd: traitor technology >>>Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 11:33 PM >>> >>> >>>Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) >>>News Release >>>29 March 1999 >>>http://www.rafi.org >>> >>> >>> ** TRAITOR TECHNOLOGY: "Damaged Goods" from the Gene Giants ** >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> New report from RAFI details over 2 dozen "Terminator II" >>> patents that link suicide seeds to proprietary chemicals, >>> genetically-weakened plants, and the patented power to >>> make genetically-inviable plants rise from the dead. >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>Beyond the prognostications of even its most pessimistic critics, >>>Terminator science is snowballing into the corporate profit centre of the >>>next decade and beyond. And, if the major seed and agrochemical >>>multinationals have their way, Terminator and Traitor (negative trait) >>>technologies will come on the heels of the new millennium to a farm near >>>you. RAFI's Executive Director Pat Mooney declares, "With this report and >>>our previous work on the Terminator, RAFI is sounding the alarm that> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 21:50:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14901 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:50:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA20738; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20406 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:33:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] (max7-7.stc.net [208.210.134.7]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05344 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:36:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199903301649.LAA23670@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:29:06 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 474 >Thanks for looking in on this. >Ed's method, as you describe it, is exactly how I've created soil around >here for the last 9 years. I developed soil on my little property as a >result of a succession of piles of whatever materials I could get my hands >on, and most of what I grew was used to feed those piles, not human bodies! >This is the first year I've really had enough soil everywhere to grow a real >quantity of "human" food. >I used a friend's shredder one year, but couldn't stand the noise. Our basic >method was to pile things up (material, handfuls of soil, pinch of finished >compost), then have the kids walk around on the piles before we watered >them. The next year, we would plant a few veggies in the resulting bed, then >the next year, trees, shrubs, and perennial flowers and herbs. > >Last fall, my preps went into a pile that took all spring and summer to >build to a sufficient mass, so I could water as I went. >My query on the water content of the compost was due to this being my first >classic one-ton BD pile, also my first use of new, wet manure. I've never >been so "technical" in my approach before this, but I've never grown food >for humans on the scale we plan this year. > >Thanks again, even though I'm a little jealous of your 70" rainfall! Dear Pam, Please, no jealousy. 70 inches of rainfall annually just means I have to work harder. What's the benefit of that? Getting to slog around in mud a goodly part of the year? I could be jealous of your drier conditions. And incidentally, last summer when it was very dry here I got the best crops ever. Due to my BD methods with tilth down nearly two feet and loose soil that fed the underground moisture back up I had corn that filled out to the tips, a bumper crop of cukes and squash, and lots of cayenne peppers to make Louisiana hot sauce out of. Musta sold well over $2,000 worth of hot sauce alone. Put up (and sold out) 43 cases of dill pickles at $8 per quart, which comes to around $4,000. From October on, though, we've been inundated, and the barn yard is a real mess. I'd probably enjoy drier conditions. Glad to hear you've found soil building possible. I was very impressed with what Ed Mendoza did in Arizona, which may be drier than where you are, though not too much. I gather you're in Southern Idaho, which is pretty desert like. All my relatives came from Northern Idaho around Sandpoint (which I hear has a Waldorf school), which is pretty much like here, though not quite so far south or so wet. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." --Wendell Berry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 21:50:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14910 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:50:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA20883; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:36:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20450 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:34:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] (max7-7.stc.net [208.210.134.7]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05443 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:37:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE7ABF.FDF3AD20@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:47:11 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: dropping like flies & mycorrhizal fungi & Melissa Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 475 >BD Now mems seem to be bailing out like ... flies? Hope it's just Spring's >busy season. > >Oh well, more info for the rest of us! Question: >I (hooray, it's running) finally got the tractor up and motivated enough to >mow some acreage. Ordered seed for hay, and am thinking it gets SO DRY >midsummer in Texas, about inoculating the seed with mycorrhizal fungi. > Supposed to be great for nutrient - attracting and moisture - attracting >qualities. Actually, you don't 'inoculate' the seed, the seed is merely a >carrier for the spores to get to the soil. >My banana pup had it as a baby and you should see it now! > >Has anyone had experience with this type of fungal inoculant? >A bit pricey, $75 for a 3 lb tub which should do 3 acres. I have 8 - 12 >acres (depending on how thick/thin I decide the seed must go out) to plant >to hay this season. Thinking about just doing one container's worth and >marking it off to see the differences. But, would like input from someone >who has actually used the stuff on commercial scale first. >thanks >martha > >Oh, and a PS: If anyone finds Melissa in their computer system, go here: >ByeMelissa.doc is a free download from the ZDNet Software Library. >This program scans for the virus and fixes problems it caused. >http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdna990330/hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis >/swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=000YPG&b=product Martha, Never knew there was mycorrhizal innoculant available. I always used ants, which know how to culture and spread mychorrhizae. Ants do a perfectly wizard job at low cost, but I guess there's something to be said for doing it without them. I have noticed that mychorrizal development is greatest on well aerated roots, which is one of the things ants ensure. You probably want to see that the soil is loose where you use this product. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." --Wendell Berry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 21:51:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA15030 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:51:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA20990; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:37:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20473 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:34:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] (max7-7.stc.net [208.210.134.7]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05468 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:37:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000f01be7afa$b162afc0$984b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:54:12 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Valerian culture Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 476 >Dear Friends, > >I have been coddling a Valerian plant throughout the winter in my kitchen >window sill. It has begrudgingly survived, giving me some root trimmings, >(whose strength I underestimated - once!) and I'm thinking it is time to put >it outside where it will be much happier. Any thoughts on best placement? >Soil preference? Sunny, sandy, moist, shady, near the compost heap? Should I >take the plant outside & try asking it? Any Valerian experts feel free to >jump in here... > > I have tried to develop a relationship with this plant, so that I could >recognize it on the farm (I'm sure its here somewhere:-)) and because I >think the farm needs 507. (Phosphorus seems low here, or unavailable...I >have found every other prep plant here...except Valerian). And perhaps if I >become acquainted with it, acknowledge it...ok - WORSHIP it, maybe this will >help with the phosphorus situation... > >This plant is my pal, so where should I put it? > >Julie Dear Julie, Another name for valerian is garden Heliotrope. (helio = Sun, trope = attracted to) It likes the SUN. It is a northern weed that propagates by root divisions, so it can take over a field under the right conditions. But it likes a field that gets good summer sun. Down here in Georgia the sun gets too strong for it and it goes dormant in summer. But you ought to have no trouble in Wisconsin. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." --Wendell Berry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 21:52:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA15046 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:52:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA21126; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:38:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20527 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:34:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] (max7-7.stc.net [208.210.134.7]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05508 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:37:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3e2481a2.3701589e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:06:43 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: burying horns/re Many hands of government Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 477 >Could anyone explain why the horns need to be buried in fertile soil? I've >been told for viticulture that you shouldn't bury them in vineyards as the >soil there generally isn't fertile enough. > >Thanks for the postings on the latest on National Standards.What is decided >will affect us here in the UK and I have been searching websites wondering >why I can't find out what's happening. > >Thank you BDNow! > >Hilary Wright >London Dear Hilary, In general fertile soil with good clay-humus colloids is a life energy attractant and accumulator. Since the horns only focus what life energy comes their way it is important that they be buried where the life forces are richly abundant. Years ago I started a barrel compost and horn pit area (located by dowsing) up in the forest above the rest of my farm and at first I thought the soil there was a bit devoid of life. You know, forest soil tends to be sucked dry of life, which generally moves upward into the trees. But the clay in this location soon got rich and crumbly, and I've gotten exceptional results there. The life forces are really rich there. So the basic rule is bury your preps where the life forces are really rich. I just now checked it out and the location I'm burying preps is at a junction of four energy lines (exceptional). This makes for lots of energy there. The results show this. So set all other rules aside, and look for a place where the life forces are really rich. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." --Wendell Berry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 22:01:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15182 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:01:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA22178; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22052 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:47:01 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hSDSa21956 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:48:30 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:48:30 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: re: Hugh's hot sauce recipe (was compost in arid climate) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 478 Hugh, Care to share your cayenne sauce recipe? The big one by the gallon. Love to know it! Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 30 22:16:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15397 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA23477; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:00:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23341 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:58:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-195.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.195]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11474 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:02:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <37018F26.6133@ipa.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:57:42 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Seed Balls, follow-up Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 479 As a follow-up to the "Seeds, Phenology, Sequence of Bloom: Seed Balls" post in March, it turns out there is a company that makes and sells seed balls. Thus, if you need a quick fix and there's no time to mix your own, this company's product may come in handy. Earthseeds http://www.earthseed.com The wildflower and native seeds they incorporate into the seed balls are regionalized for different parts of the country. These for-sale seed balls might be the thing your local city council or school board would fund for roadside beautification and ecological restoration. Again, Jim Bones' "Light Writings" web page is a wondeful site with plenty of instructions on how to make your on own seed balls. Jim Bones' "Light Writings" web page: http://www.seedballs.com/ Seed Balls: A New Tool for Revegetation (Table of Contents) http://www.seedballs.com/tblcon.html A couple people wrote back and said they will be playing around with seed balls this year. Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 00:04:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA17087 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:04:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA04615; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:47:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04425 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:45:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-195.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.195]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA25449 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:48:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3701A80F.79EA@ipa.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:43:59 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: BD Compost, Worms, Energy Fields References: <32f48367.36f25803@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 480 Back on March 19th, Chris Shade posted some notes on the effects of earthworm injestion on availability of phosphorus. > I just was looking at a paper where scientists looked at the effects of > earthworm ingestion on pjosphate rack availability. They concluded that the > effect, greater P availability, was due to the intimate incorporation of the > the rock particles with the soil. They showed electron micrographs of the > rock particles int0 the soil vs. passed throught he gut of the worm. The > seived particles had air all around them, whereas the "wormed" particles were > completely enveloped by highly organic soil goo. Biochemically this will coat > the particles with soil bacteria an chelating organic acids to make available > many mineral goodies. Chris Shade then added the following notes about the alchemy of worms: > BUT, more interestingly, energetically I see the worm > alchemy of uniting Positive and negative. Granite, basalt, rock phos, all > paramagnetic, or positive, elements united with the diamagnetic, or negative, > humus elements to make the soil hum with the elixir. Something that > machanical mixing was not able to do, but rather left the two separate. But > maybe I am just spewing. > > Chris Shade > Aspiring Mad Scientist Here, I draw your attention to the passage on positive-negative alchemy that Chris refers to... energetic fields created from the combination of paramagnetic minerals with diamagnetic humus. In the Pfeiffer literature circa 1940-50s we can read about mineralized compost; i.e., compost windrows treated with rock minerals to provide an enhanced mineral source when applied to the agricultural fields. It is also well established that organic acids generated during the composting process help solubilize the rock minerals and make elements like phosphorus more widely available than what is in the original parent form of rock phosphate. Putting rock phosphate through a compost pile can make the phosphorus availability equivalent to single super phosphate, according to research a few years back. Mineralized compost does not just exist in the old Pfeiffer literature, either. I've known several organic farms that amended composts with rock-based fertilizers according to the needs of soils on the farm. And in addition, basaltic rock dusts are commonly used at specified rates in modern day Luekbe-based composting systems, to provide a source of micronutrients. There is also growing interest in micronutrient-enhanced composts as catalysts for critical soil enzyme systems which may increase pest immunity or enhance crop nutrition. Though additions of rock dusts and rock phosphate to compost piles pre-date the books and lectures by Phil Callahan on paramagnetism, now that we have this knowledge I think it opens a window of discovery with respect to mineralized composts as a energy field input to soils as well as a stabilized source of humus. Another way to appreciate the significance of this mineral-biological energy field is to think about the way a battery operates.... with current flowing from the positive post the negative post, or vice versa. By enhancing the "battery effect" in soils and composts by paying attention to both rock dust applications as well as humus management practices like composting and green manuring, we are taking care of business with respect to good agronomic husbandry.... but we are also increasing energetic fields on the farm. Carey Reams, the man who modern day crop advisors like Dan Skow and Arden Anderson and others studied under, is perhaps best known for his development of the Reams Biological Theory of Ionization. The RBTI says that plants live off of the energy of ionization as nutrients flow through the plant, and not just from the chemical contribution of the elements themselves. In other words, Reams understood that energy fields and energy flows and magnetism in soils and crops play a critical role in agriculture. Perhaps there are resident physicist-types on the BD-Now list, here I am thinking of people like Guy McCarthy or Hugh Lovel, who can shed more light on this subject. Finally, this brings to mind the concept that distinct yet intertwined energy fields exist in composts: With biodynamic preparations, we have one type of compost energy. [E.g., the BD preps add certain frequencies that energize the compost and radiate outwards onto the farm] With mineralized compost, we have a second type of compost energy. [E.g., paramagnetic-diamagnetic energy fields similar to the battery effect] With microbials in compost, we have a third type of compost energy. [E.g., microvita theory from India says that the sum total of all populations of living microorganisms create an energy field similar to prana or life energy. In other words, there is a separate energy field created by the microbes themselves un-related to BD preps, which may or may not be used in compost preparation] Regards ya'll, Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 00:34:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA17498 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:34:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA08382; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:20:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA08213 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:18:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.141]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:21:33 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990330211627.00846100@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:16:27 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad Subject: Re: Seed Balls, follow-up In-Reply-To: <37018F26.6133@ipa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 481 I've made up some seedballs just recently and would like to share the experience. It's a fun and easy way of getting seeds out there and with biodynamics it would be another way of getting the preps out. I made mine from some dry, mature biodynamic cow manure I picked from a pasture. It doesn't take much at all. I crushed the manure into a powder, and mixed in some adobe clay powder, about 3 parts manure to 5 parts clay. I purchased the clay as a big 25 lb block from a community centre for about 20 bucks and dried it in my kitchen oven. Then, I added about 1 part of mixed flower seeds and stirred the whole thing well. Finally I added some rainwater, about 1 part and rolled it all into 1/2 inch balls and set them out to dry, only took a day in a warm spot. I am just waiting for more rain now and we shall see how things sprout. Conrad von Zirkwitz you wrote: >As a follow-up to the "Seeds, Phenology, Sequence of Bloom: Seed Balls" >post in March, it turns out there is a company that makes and sells >seed balls. Thus, if you need a quick fix and there's no time to mix >your own, this company's product may come in handy. > >Earthseeds >http://www.earthseed.com > >The wildflower and native seeds they incorporate into the >seed balls are regionalized for different parts of the country. > >These for-sale seed balls might be the thing your local >city council or school board would fund for roadside >beautification and ecological restoration. > >Again, Jim Bones' "Light Writings" web page is >a wondeful site with plenty of instructions on >how to make your on own seed balls. > >Jim Bones' "Light Writings" web page: >http://www.seedballs.com/ > >Seed Balls: A New Tool for Revegetation (Table of Contents) >http://www.seedballs.com/tblcon.html > >A couple people wrote back and said they will be playing >around with seed balls this year. > >Steve Diver > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 01:50:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA18355 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:50:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA14548; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from fep8.mail.ozemail.net (fep8.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.102]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA14386 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:35:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (slmlb30p37.ozemail.com.au [203.108.83.165]) by fep8.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA08689 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:38:38 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <015f01be7b40$fb1c1e80$a5536ccb@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "Gwenda Robb" To: Subject: Re: Vietnam Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:37:41 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 482 Hi to all BD Friends Home again (Melbourne Australia) from backpacking in Vietnam. Saw truckloads & truckloads of NPK on the road and in every small village there seemed to be a depot for it. Also observed many rice farmers spraying their crops using backpacks - I'm sure that it wasn't 500! As very little English is spoken and I don't speak Vietnamese (yet) was not able to communicate - lots of smiling though! email me directly for questions or interest re Vietnam. Warm regards Gwenda From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 09:12:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22186 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:12:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA11040; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:00:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10718 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:57:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d143.infoserve.net [199.175.157.143]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA15361 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:03:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005601be7b7e$e7712400$8f9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Fw: OFF/ GM ousted in UK Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:00:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 483 Many thanks to Sybil from the Uk, who asked me to forward this to the list. M. > > >What happens in US regarding GM foods, affects the entire world! > >Dear Sybil, It may be of interest to you to hear that Marks & Spencer >one of the UK major retailers has an announcement in all its stores in >UK this week advising all customers that they have withdrawn all >foodstuffs containing gm ingredients from their stores and at the same >time there is an announcement in the national press that the Co- >operative Wholesale Society ( the UK's biggest farmer ) has pulled out >of the Government backed trials of gm crops which is seen as a severe >blow to the biotech industry. There has also been the withdrawal of >proceedings against two eco warriors who destroyed a gm crop in the >South of England last year being grown on behalf of the Ministry of >Agriculture. They were said to have caused damage to the tune of >£600'000 but the case was dropped they think because of the "adverse" >publicity it might have given to the possible effects of such foodstuffs >and also because of the potential damage it could have caused to one of >the UK's biggest organic farms only three hundred yards away. Love and >Light. Julian >-- >Julian > >Michael Roboz wrote: > >> Yes., what happens in the US can affect us also. Not only does GE products >> try to become law here, but,. also we import a lot of US food up here. >> When they were going to classify what is organic down in the US by the >> FDA, I did my bit and faxed them what I thought about their bright ideas. M. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ken, Jean Huffman >> To: bdnow@envirolink.org >> Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 5:11 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Urgent Action Needed - Biased panel to set US biotech >> policy, laws] >> >> >Is this applicable to Canadians ie can we help? >> >Jean >> > >> > > > > >-- >mailto:sybil@tgl.net >^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ >We came to this system to change: > fear and hate into Love, > slavery into Sovereignty > and blame into Responsibility. >We got caught up in the dream > and fell asleep in the illusion. >We are waking up now > and owning our Creations > and powers of Self-Mastery. >*THAT* is the Enlightenment. > --Sybil Soaring Eagle > Summer 1996 >^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ ^~^ > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 10:59:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA24313 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:59:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA24694; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:47:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24438 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:45:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.157] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.157]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.01.13.19.49.p4) with ESMTP id <0F9G0035PTUTB3@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:32:57 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:39:41 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <199903251802.NAA24212@envirolink.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id KAA24456 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 484 >Dear Pam and Guillermo, > >Visiting Ed Mendoza, the farmer at the Gila River Indian Community in >southern Arizona, last January I was impressed at his patient approach to >composting and mulching in that low moisture environment. One of the things >he did was stacking crop residues and other compostables on beds and taking >a full year or more breaking them down, and what a wonderfully rich ecology >this created, not only with flora (plants) but with fauna (animals). He >didn't have shredders or anything high tech except his drip irrigation >system. So he stacked and let things get brittle, brittle and walked on >them to break them up (and break them down). It was artfully done with a >wonderful insight into nature that I can't describe but can only admire. I >don't know much about arid climates, but Ed understood them from his whole >life experience and believe me it gave "fallow ground" a meaning it could >never have in my 70 inch rainfall environment. > >I think one of the most insightful things about Ed's method of--not sheet >composting, but bed/mulch composting--was it took otherwise arid land that >had too little organic matter and gave it a blanket that drew in life >energy, held on to it and built it up over much larger areas than if you >stacked everything in a pile and got a rapid decomposition. If you poked >into his coarse, heavy bed mulches after they'd been there a year you >stirred into a teeming community of all kinds of things scurrying here and >there. I was really impressed. He was bringing land to life in situ (right >there in place) so that when the fallow year was over and you forked >everything up and grew a drip irrigated crop you had wonderful fertility. >It was an education just seeing it. It was nothing like the piles we build >in wet climates with fast decomposition and all the work of hauling and >spreading. He took the organic matter and used it to generate dynamic life >activity. Maybe he thought of it as doing the sensible, easy thing whith >what he had, no big thing, but woe is on this earth because such things are >NOT usually done. > >My hat's off to this guy, but he doesn't have e-mail so far as I know. You >might call him at 520 568 3509 (home, evenings). I hope he doesn't mind, >and he speaks fluent Spanish. He is very special and I don't know if he >realizes how much insight his small acreage showed me he had, but let me >tell you this guy had some good ideas about bringing arid land to life. > >Best, >Hugh Lovel Thanks Hugh for this reply: Although I get about 30 in of rainfall, most of it pours down in a few storms during a three month period. A month after the rainy season there is practically no residual moisture is the soil. This is far more evident in the cultivated and pasture land than in the wild. In the coffee and fruit trees areas of my place, I just leave whatever fall to the ground there (before everything was kept well swept.) That alone has improved the quality of the soil and the health of the plants. You can even tell the difference between the pathways and the untraveled areas. I some areas of my place where I had bare soil, I am also doing sheet composting using a small layer of cow manure and a heavy layer of rice-straw mulch. The results are great, you can see the improvement in a very short period. Here I water from time to time and I am planning to mulch some more during the rainny season to avoid the newly created soil from running off. To keep moisture and increase life in the soil, in collaboration with a local ag technical high school, we are preparing a demonstration pasture area using the Keyline methodology, (using a modified chisel plow, deep rooting crops, worms and spraying the preps). This methodology I think is very promising for the recuperation of this area. Althought it will take three years to complete, I hope to see some results a couple of months after the rainy season is over (it ends in september). I believe nothing is more important to do, in this semi arid climates, than to recuperate the soil's ability to hold moisture, and that can only be done by increasing it's capacity to hold life. Again many thanks for your input and warm regards. ps I would also like to try out your sauce recipe. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 11:10:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA24703 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:10:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA26825; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:59:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from m1.boston.juno.com (m1.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.199]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26328 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:56:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from laquerencia@juno.com) by m1.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D624X43Y; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:54:31 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:55:39 -0600 Subject: learning to dowse Message-ID: <19990331.095539.15406.4.LaQuerencia@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5,7-11,13-18 From: Deborah M Byron Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 485 Hugh Lovel wrote: So the basic rule is bury your preps where the life forces are really rich. I just now >checked it out and the location I'm burying preps is at a junction of four >energy lines (exceptional). This makes for lots of energy there. The results >show this. So set all other rules aside, and look for a place where the >life forces are really rich. Hugh, could you tell us how you learned to dowse and if there is a particular book or person you'd recommend as a guide? Regards, Deborah Byron LaQuerencia@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 15:02:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00699 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:02:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA03785; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:51:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03294 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:47:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d158.infoserve.net [199.175.157.158]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA02868 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:53:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000901be7baf$d527c840$9e9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: more Spring signals in Vancouver area Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:51:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7B6C.C5E8B800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 486 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7B6C.C5E8B800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First grass mowing today First planting of cool tolerant vegies flock of flickers (type of woodpecker) looks like 2 days of sun in a row! M. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7B6C.C5E8B800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
First grass mowing = today
First planting of cool tolerant=20 vegies
flock of flickers (type of=20 woodpecker)
looks like 2 days of sun in a = row!
M.
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7B6C.C5E8B800-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 16:25:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02737 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA14706; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:12:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14465 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:11:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (pm3-3-149.blueriver.mwt.net [156.46.251.149]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA13750 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:12:03 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <007501be7bba$f7731340$95fb2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: OFF: Biased NAS Panel Tied to Biotech Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:10:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 487 Hi All, I know these GE posts are flooding the lists, its Spring busy time, but the action required here is minimal...instructions below for making a statement - its a no-brainer & could make a huge difference. Thanks for the moment it will take you... CALL FOR COMMENTS ON GENETIC ENGINEERING PANEL, APRIL 7 DEADLINE! The National Academy of Sciences (NAS) has convened a special committee to review the science and US regulation of genetically engineered (GE) crops. Greenpeace is urgently calling for your comments to NAS, to urge that the panel membership is expanded to include a broader spectrum of concerned parties. As currently composed, several of the 13 members of the panel have ties to the biotech industry and/or work primarily in biotechnology. This panel must not be biased if it is to produce a scientifically useful report. The goal of the Committee is to assess the environmental and the social and economic impacts of GE crops. Yet none of the Committee members are scientists from the growing pool of those who are broadly concerned about the potentially irreversible adverse effects of genetically engineered plants. There are also no Committee members with a background in the consumer, organic and family farm, or environmental concerns regarding genetic engineering. Several experts in these areas, from academia or the public interest community, should be added as Committee members. The NAS Committee is scheduled to hold its first meeting on April 8. THERE ARE JUST A FEW DAYS LEFT FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS - PLEASE ACT TODAY! NAS has a form for comments at http://www4.nas.edu/webfdbk.nsf/Committee+Feedback?OpenForm Enter the "Project Information Number: BANR-0-99-02-A. Enter the Subject, "Genetic Engineering Committee." Enter your e-mail address. Then simply copy the message below, with your name, and paste it into their form. You can also call NAS at 202-334-2396. Jennifer Kuzna, at this number, should take your comments. Simply tell her that you are concerned about a potential bias of the Committee on Genetically Modified Crops Containing Pesticide Genes, and you expect NAS to add Committee members, including critical scientists, family farm advocates, consumer representatives and environmentalists. If you'd like to send them your comments, use the sample letter on the other side and send to: National Academy of Sciences 2101 Constitution Ave., NW Washington, DC 20418 (202) 334-2000 ATTENTION: MIKE PHILLIPS RE: Committee on Genetically Modified Crops Containing Pesticide Genes SAMPLE LETTER To the National Academy of Sciences, I am writing to urge that the Committee on Genetically Modified Crops Containing Pesticide Genes be reconstituted to include a broader representation of scientists and others who have the background and expertise needed to fully assess the impact of these crops. If the Committee is to fairly and impartially address the potential risks and benefits of this technology, and the social and economic impacts (as stated in the Committee's charge), a more inclusive group of panelists must be assembled. Numerous scientists from academia and the public interest community have written extensively of their concerns regarding these modified crops. Furthermore, organic and family farmers, consumers, and environmentalists have vital expertise in the social and economic concerns regarding genetic engineering. The Committee membership includes several scientists who work in genetic engineering, and non-scientists who have worked for the genetic engineering industry. There are no members from the wide pool of agroecologists, biologists, or other scientists who have critical concerns about the technology, and no members from the consumer, farm, or environmental communities. If these omissions are not corrected by adding several such critical voices, the NAS will appear to be taking sides in this debate, rather than contributing worthwhile scientific guidance. I am extremely concerned about the potential impact of this technology on our food and environment, and I do not wish to see NAS lose credibility in this matter. I look forward to hearing of your action on these concerns. Thank you for your prompt attention. Sincerely, (your name) BACKGROUND: The NAS Committee will specifically focus on genetically engineered "plant pesticides." These crops are altered to produce an insecticide called Bacillus thuringiensis, or Bt. Biotech firms like Monsanto claim that their Bt crops will enable farmers to use fewer chemicals while saving their crops from pest infestations. But the advent of Bt crops - which make up over 25% of the nearly 70 million acres of genetically engineered crops growing worldwide - have caused a firestorm of scientific concern. There is widespread agreement that these crops will rapidly lead to large populations of insects that are resistant to the Bt toxin. There are also recent studies on the adverse impact these crops may have on insects that are beneficial and essential to a balanced farm system, and to the vital soil ecology necessary for sustainable farming. Many scientists are concerned that the Environmental Protection Agency is not acting assertively to protect the environment. But the NAS panel appears to be stacked with scientists and others who are likely to be industry-friendly. One academic (who is not a Committee member) has even suggested that the Committee should conclude that the biotech industry is too TIGHTLY regulated! The threat of Bt crops to organic, sustainable farming must be taken seriously. The irreversible risks to the environment and to our food must be accounted for. If NAS fails to include critical voices in its Committee its process will be tainted from the start. Charles Margulis Greenpeace Genetic Engineering Campaign 736 West End Avenue #8D New York, NY 10025 (212) 865-5645 fax (212) 865-4128 charles.margulis@dialb.greenpeace.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 17:39:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04296 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:39:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA23180; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:20:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (smtp1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA22681 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:17:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903312217.RAA22681@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 29299 invoked from network); 31 Mar 1999 15:20:27 -0700 Received: from ts2-05.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO ?209.161.18.156?) (209.161.18.156) by smtp1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 1999 15:20:27 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:18:14 -0700 Subject: Before last frost From: "Pam DeTray" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 488 I would like to place preps in my compost this evening, and also stir & spray BC. I'm also thinking of applying 500 during the next few weeks. Our last frost normally comes at the end of May, although the weather is mostly nice before then. Is there any problem with proceeding as I wish? Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------- Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 17:47:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04490 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:47:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA25107; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:35:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24966 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:34:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem203.digisys.net [205.218.31.76]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01329 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:37:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3702A46A.4338BDA0@digisys.net> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:40:42 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: [OFF: FW: Check out astrology and gardening, cosmic garden etc] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CDD87ADD6AB21A325D04620D" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 489 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CDD87ADD6AB21A325D04620D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------CDD87ADD6AB21A325D04620D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from islander.whidbey.net (root@islander.whidbey.net [204.57.140.1]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22955 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:34:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [204.94.54.51] (sno51.whidbey.net [204.94.54.51]) by islander.whidbey.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03843; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:33:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903311933.LAA03843@islander.whidbey.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:09:14 -0800 Subject: FW: Check out astrology and gardening, cosmic garden etc From: "sally harrington" To: whiteowl@digisys.net, debriva@aol.com, jbkendler@aol.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ---------- Subject: Check out astrology and gardening, cosmic garden etc Date: Tue, Mar 30, 1999, 8:44 PM Hi Gardeners; Since I can't garden anymore, new house space, place and health restrictions - I didn't get into the talk. Yet I was surprised that nobody has mentioned the 'Panplanet' site, where Linda Reid's Canopus college is - along with many 'Oz' Astrologers. The below address starts a page with an article by Scott Withers on plant correspondences to planets etc. but it goes on into all other garden subjects. I just kept thinking, surely someone will mention it in the next post. Enjoy! Click here: astrology and gardening, cosmic garden,astrology, planting by the moon, biodynamic astrology,serious astrology, zo or http://www.panplanet.com J --------------CDD87ADD6AB21A325D04620D-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 21:55:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09269 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA01463; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:40:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01287 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:39:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] (max6-3.stc.net [208.210.133.131]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA14935 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:42:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:11:49 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: re: Hugh's hot sauce recipe (was compost in arid climate) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 490 >Hugh, > > Care to share your cayenne sauce recipe? The big one by the gallon. Love to >know it! > >Patrick Patrick, First of all the "secret" is growing BD cayennes. With these cayyenes I cut them open and take out the seeds. I save seeds from ideal peppers, and I can take a nip to determine the degree of hotness so that I breed the desired degree of hot peppers. A hint here, hot cayennes are not so hot at the tip of the pepper, but take a sliver from up at the hip of the pepper and look out. I cold pack these gutted peppers in quart jars (tightly and with gloves on). Meanwhile I'm simmering my pickling brine. The brine is made (in a glass pot) from three quarts mountain spring water, two quarts of apple cider vinegar, one packed cup of unrefined sea salt and a quarter cup of honey. There's a real medicinal effect from using apple cider vinegar and honey. I spice this brine with a handful of cracked or crushed garlic, a handful of sliced fresh ginger, a handful of either fresh or dried dill and a handful of Frontier's pickling spice mix (which contains cinnamon, allspice, coriander, dill, bay, cayenne, mustard seed, etc.). I also get my water bath canner boiling on the stove. When I get enough jars cold packed to fill the canner I ladle hot brine over the peppers, turn the lids down almost tight and water bath them for 18 minutes. To make the hot sauce I use the blender and do about half a quart jar at a time. For every quart I use all the pepper meats and about two thirds to three quarters of the brine along with three heaping tablespoons of unrefined sea salt. After blending for 5 to 10 minutes I strain into a large pot. When I have enough to bottle I use a horse syringe without the needle, suck the hot sauce up and inject it into bottles. I like using the traditional hot sauce bottles since you get a well metered dose when you want hot sauce, but since I like my own sauce and use little of any other I often have to buy out the grocery store at 35 cents a bottle when I want bottles. I don't know how they make it so cheap, but I have to charge $5 a bottle to come out on it. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." --Wendell Berry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 22:15:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09522 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:15:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA04376; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:01:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04313 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:01:04 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hITZa14858 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:02:05 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <4d702186.3702e1ad@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:02:05 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Hugh's hot sauce recipe (was compost in arid climate) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 491 Hugh, WOW! Can't wait to try it. I was schooled in New Mexico making red sauce and green sauce. Looking forward to another spicy experience. I'll have to get those cayenne pepper seeds out of storage. Quite a mix of herbs and spices. Have you tried Epazote in red sauce? It's different and people always remark "what's that taste?" Thanks, Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 22:32:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09719 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:32:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA06854; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06692 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:18:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from junkpile - 208.253.68.104 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:21:33 -0800 From: "Mary Manson" To: Subject: Re: OFF/ GM ousted in UK Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:33:21 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <00c483321030149CPIMSSMTPU01@email.msn.com> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 492 >>Dear Sybil, It may be of interest to you to hear that Marks & Spencer >>one of the UK major retailers has an announcement in all its stores in >>UK this week advising all customers that they have withdrawn all >>foodstuffs containing gm ingredients from their stores and at the same >>time there is an announcement in the national press that the Co- >>operative Wholesale Society ( the UK's biggest farmer ) has pulled out >>of the Government backed trials of gm crops which is seen as a severe >>blow to the biotech industry. There has also been the withdrawal of >>proceedings against two eco warriors who destroyed a gm crop in the >>South of England last year being grown on behalf of the Ministry of >>Agriculture. They were said to have caused damage to the tune of >>£600'000 but the case was dropped they think because of the "adverse" >>publicity it might have given to the possible effects of such foodstuffs >>and also because of the potential damage it could have caused to one of >>the UK's biggest organic farms only three hundred yards away. Love and >>Light. Julian !!!!! Wow !!!!! Will Marks & Spencer, and the Cooperative Wholesale Society, accept hugs since they can't be bought ?? Please email mine to them, and include Sybil, and you, who brought us the good news ..... Toni tonihawr@email.msn.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 22:32:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09745 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:32:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA06927; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:20:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06732 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:19:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.156] (pm3shep3-163-148.intrepid.net [209.190.163.148]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00121 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:22:22 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:25:05 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Coffee Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 493 No beans yet, Michael! The invoice is here, but no beans yet! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 31 22:39:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09873 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:39:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA07679; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:26:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAB07407 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:24:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.156] (pm3shep3-163-148.intrepid.net [209.190.163.148]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01048 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:27:21 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:28:40 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Coffee Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 494 >No beans yet, Michael! > >The invoice is here, but no beans yet! This post (sent to the wrong address), of course, should make it perfectly clear how badly I need them!! -Allan :-) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 00:24:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11628 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:23:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA09014; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:11:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07608 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:07:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] (max15-48.stc.net [208.210.138.48]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA01771 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:11:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:08:51 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Dowsing/Joey Korn's Web Site Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 495 Here's a forwarded message about dowsing Dear Fellow Dowsers and Spiritual Seekers, If you haven't visited my new Web site yet, I'd be honored for you to do so. If you have visited but haven't done so lately, I have new pages up. My Web site is based on what I call "tools for empowerment," tools that we each have at our disposal to help us grow spiritually. You can find it at http://dowsers.com. What's new? * Learn how to move underground streams of water with the Power of Prayer * Learn about my Advanced Workshops * A new links page, linking other related Web sites * Walter Russell books are now on sale, priced lower than ever, including the Home Study Course I have pages dedicated to: * Dowsing: A Path to Enlightenment * Relaxation & Meditation * Walter Russell, one of the most enlightened beings ever to walk the planet * Dowsing Books, L-rods & Pendulums * Abe's Story: A Holocaust Memoir, my father's autobiography * Music for Relaxation and Meditation * Books by and about Walter Russell * My Upcoming Workshops and Speaking Events Much more will be added to the site in the months to come, so keep visiting. I'd love to hear from you about your comments and/or suggestions. Joey Korn PS-If you have received this, you have probably expressed an interest in some aspect of my work. If you'd like to be removed from my mailing list, please let me know. *************************** TOOLS FOR EMPOWERMENT Dowsing supplies & Walter Russell books Order a copy of the January '99 edition of my groundbreaking book, DOWSING: A PATH TO ENLIGHTENMENT http://dowsers.com Phone/Fax: 706-736-2549 Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." --Wendell Berry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 00:24:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11635 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:24:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA08912; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:11:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07548 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:07:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] (max15-48.stc.net [208.210.138.48]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA01744 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:10:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990331.095539.15406.4.LaQuerencia@juno.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:37:40 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: learning to dowse Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 496 >Hugh Lovel wrote: > >So the basic rule is bury your preps where the life forces are really >rich. I just now >>checked it out and the location I'm burying preps is at a junction of >four >>energy lines (exceptional). This makes for lots of energy there. The >results >>show this. So set all other rules aside, and look for a place where the >>life forces are really rich. > > >Hugh, could you tell us how you learned to dowse and if there is a >particular book or person you'd recommend as a guide? > >Regards, >Deborah Byron >LaQuerencia@juno.com > > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Dear Deborah, Harvey Lisle taught me to dowse with "y" rods, and before that, my neighbor Shariri, Chris Bird's wife, taught me to pendulum dowse. It's not too complicated. You can write to the American Dowsers' Association, Danville, VT 05828-0024 for a Dowsers' chapter near you. Or you might tune in to one of Joey Korn's workshops. He's an excellent teacher who after a career in the auto parts industry has now devoted his life to teaching dowsing. I told Joey a little while back that I thought dowsing will become obsolete before too long--maybe a hundred years. He was stirred up by that, since he has found dowsing such a rich source of revealations. But with dowsing we are looking at things more or less like we would with glasses or other sensory assistance methods. When our grandchildren get things really focused in clear perception dowsing will be obsolete. For now, however, we must make do with what we can do, and dowsing just about everyone can do. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." --Wendell Berry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 00:24:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11644 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA08742; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:10:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07514 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:07:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] (max15-48.stc.net [208.210.138.48]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA01732 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:10:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199903251802.NAA24212@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:11:42 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: BD compost in arid climate Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 497 > >Thanks Hugh for this reply: > >Although I get about 30 in of rainfall, most of it pours down in a few >storms during a three month period. A month after the rainy season there >is practically no residual moisture is the soil. This is far more evident >in the cultivated and pasture land than in the wild. > >In the coffee and fruit trees areas of my place, I just leave whatever >fall to the ground there (before everything was kept well swept.) That >alone has improved the quality of the soil and the health of the plants. >You can even tell the difference between the pathways and the untraveled >areas. > >I some areas of my place where I had bare soil, I am also doing sheet >composting using a small layer of cow manure and a heavy layer of >rice-straw mulch. The results are great, you can see the improvement in a >very short period. Here I water from time to time and I am planning to >mulch some more during the rainny season to avoid the newly created soil >from running off. > >To keep moisture and increase life in the soil, in collaboration with a >local ag technical high school, we are preparing a demonstration pasture >area using the Keyline methodology, (using a modified chisel plow, deep >rooting crops, worms and spraying the preps). This methodology I think is >very promising for the recuperation of this area. Althought it will take >three years to complete, I hope to see some results a couple of months >after the rainy season is over (it ends in september). > >I believe nothing is more important to do, in this semi arid climates, >than to recuperate the soil's ability to hold moisture, and that can only >be done by increasing it's capacity to hold life. > >Again many thanks for your input and warm regards. > >ps I would also like to try out your sauce recipe. > > >Guillermo Romero I. >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > Dear Guillermo, I've always lived in high rainfall environments, but there's something about deserts that intrigues me. When I started farming biodynamically it occured to me to ask, "What's the furthest this can be taken to on this planet?" The answer was reclaiming the Sahara. There was a good work-up on the Sahara in March '99 National Geographic. It is REALLY arid. But you know, it is the former Garden of Eden, and if we learned how to bring rain back there it would become, once again, what it was. We've got a lot to learn on this planet before we're fit for space travel. Reclaiming the Sahara is a principle sign of our preparedness. We must reclaim it to join the community of intergalactic beings. What this Mexican Indian guy, Ed Mendoza, showed me on his arid acres in southern Arizona was pretty inspiring. I bet if you looked in the long view at what you are doing with your coffee and fruit and your sheet composting you'd see what an enormous effect can result. These things may be taken lightly and not pursued, but if your efforts are consistent, what do you suppose will result 40 opr 50 years--or 200 or 300--down the road? The Sahara was forested 15,000 years ago. It didn't turn arid overnight. It turned arid because of human abuse, and that didn't all happen overnight. I haven't got a copy, but I believe Jim DeMeo's book gives some accounting of Wilhelm Reich's insight into this process. Someone you might tune into is Alan Savory, of Holistic Resource Management in New Mexico. It's crazy, but I don't have his address. I'd suggest either calling ACRES, U.S.A. 800 889 2100, or writing one of his students I'm in contact with, Raemona Howard, 0984 Daggett Lane, Gypsum, CO 81637. Alan is from South Africa and has quite a bit of insight into arid environments. With all this we are probably exhausting my meagre information about arid climates. I'll need to learn from you in the future, since you are living there and here I am at 70 inches annual rainfall. I want to learn, though. I find it very intriguing. Incidentally, we are working across languages. I go to a lot of trouble to spell things correctly so you can look them up successfully in dictionaries. Chances are my spelling is correct. I put a lot of wear on a dictionary. This is for your benefit. I offer this as a measure of respect to those having to use dictionaries. As for the hot sauce, now that you've got the recipe, make it. You probably can grow better peppers than I can. Grow them BD and they will be wonderful. You'll become famous for your hot sauce. Georgia is not really a hot sauce state. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." --Wendell Berry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 00:49:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11882 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:49:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA18318; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:35:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA18189 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:34:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.52] (max15-48.stc.net [208.210.138.48]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA03132 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:38:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4d702186.3702e1ad@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:56:08 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Hugh's hot sauce recipe (was compost in arid climate) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 498 >Hugh, > > WOW! Can't wait to try it. I was schooled in New Mexico making red sauce >and green sauce. Looking forward to another spicy experience. I'll have to get >those cayenne pepper seeds out of storage. Quite a mix of herbs and spices. >Have you tried Epazote in red sauce? It's different and people always remark >"what's that taste?" > >Thanks, Patrick Patrick, Just goes to show you. I haven't any idea what epazote is. My dictionary says epazote is wormseed. This might relate to our American wormseed, or Jewruselam Oak, a chenapodium used to eliminate parasites around here. It's spicy, and could be used as a food. What have we here? Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." --Wendell Berry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 00:57:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11965 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:57:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA20979; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:44:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20005 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:41:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d150.infoserve.net [199.175.157.150]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA07043 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:47:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005601be7c02$c971a680$969dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: Coffee Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:41:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 499 One went air mail, the other surface! M. -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 7:26 PM Subject: Coffee >No beans yet, Michael! > >The invoice is here, but no beans yet! > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 02:39:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA12913 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 02:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA28901; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 02:21:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA28744 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 02:18:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.21]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:20:24 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990331231517.00843100@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:15:17 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad Subject: Re: more Spring signals in Vancouver area In-Reply-To: <000901be7baf$d527c840$9e9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 500 My garden is now full of lil' horsetails, and I saw a bald eagle fly by my window at work today (in the city!). Conrad you wrote: >>>> First grass mowing today First planting of cool tolerant vegies flock of flickers (type of woodpecker) looks like 2 days of sun in a row! M. <<<<<<<< From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 07:02:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA14833 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:02:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA09642; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:49:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA09335 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:46:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.113] (pm3shep3-163-113.intrepid.net [209.190.163.113]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA21540 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:49:13 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4d702186.3702e1ad@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:50:34 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Hugh's hot sauce recipe (was compost in arid climate) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 501 >>Hugh, >> >> WOW! Can't wait to try it. I was schooled in New Mexico making red sauce >>and green sauce. Looking forward to another spicy experience. I'll have >>to get >>those cayenne pepper seeds out of storage. Quite a mix of herbs and spices. >>Have you tried Epazote in red sauce? It's different and people always remark >>"what's that taste?" >> >>Thanks, Patrick > Patrick - They are more explicit when I have used epazonte: They say "Did you put gasoline in these beans?" :-) -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 08:38:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA15670 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA14834; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:25:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14722 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:24:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.9]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:30:08 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:27:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Counting Blue Moons? Think Again, Because Definition Is Wrong (from NYTimes) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 502 Counting Blue Moons? Think Again, Because Definition Is Wrong [A modern definition is based on an error made five decades ago.] By HENRY FOUNTAIN It was supposed to be a banner year for blue moons, with one in January and another that rose Wednesday night, as March drew to a close. But now the astronomy magazine Sky and Telescope has discovered that the modern definition of a blue moon -- as the second full moon in a month -- is based upon an error made more than five decades ago. And the perpetrator was none other than Sky and Telescope itself. Rather than the twice-in-a-month definition, the magazine says in the current issue, a blue moon was originally understood to be a fourth full moon in a season, which normally has three. By that definition, neither the January nor March moons are blue; in fact, 1999 is blue-moonless. Donald W. Olson, an astronomer at Southwest Texas State University and an author of the current article, said the error came to light as the magazine's editors were preparing an article for the March issue on blue moons, which this year had sparked much interest because of the appearance of two of them. (Most years are lucky to have one, no matter what the definition.) In the March article, a Canadian folklorist had traced the definition to a 1946 Sky and Telescope article, which itself made reference to the use of the term in a 1937 edition of the Maine Farmers' Almanac. Olson, who is something of an authority on old almanacs, got a copy of the 1937 edition, and immediately noticed that something was amiss. The blue moon was listed for Aug. 21, 1937. Since the lunar cycle, from full moon to full moon, is 29 1/2 days, simple arithmetic showed that this moon could not have been the second in August. Olson fired off an urgent E-mail message to Roger W. Sinnott, one of the magazine's associate editors. "I said, 'Roger, be very careful what you say in the article,' " Olson recalled. "The blue moon in this almanac I'm sending you is not and cannot be the second moon in a month." The author of the 1946 article, Hugh Pruett, who lived in Oregon, did not have the 1937 almanac with him when he wrote the piece, Sinnott said. "He knew enough astronomy to realize that if there are 13 full moons in a year, one month has to have two of them," Sinnott said. Pruett wrote in the article that "this second in a month, so I interpret it, was called Blue Moon." But he obviously did not realize the date of the blue moon in the almanac, or that 1937 in fact only had 12 moons. Nothing came of the mistake for years, until the writer of a National Public Radio show on astronomy, having spied the blue moon tidbit while thumbing through old issues of the magazine, included it in a program in 1980. It was later picked up by the makers of the game Trivial Pursuit, who included it as a question in 1986. Sky and Telescope published the March article acknowledging that the current definition of a blue moon appeared to be wrong. But determining what the original definition was required a bit more detective work on the part of Olson, who eventually obtained more than 40 early editions of the almanac. All told, there were more than a dozen references to blue moons. "But not a single one was the second moon in a month," he said. Instead, he noticed that all of the blue moons in the almanacs occurred within a day or two of the 21st of a month, and that they occurred only in February, May, August and November. Olson saw a seasonal pattern. "As soon as I saw those 21st's, I was thinking equinoxes and solstices," he said. And the four months in question, he noticed, preceded the months that contain either the equinoxes or solstices. The editors of the Maine almanac, he realized, were going by what is known as a "tropical" year, from winter solstice to winter solstice. And some of these tropical years do have 13 moons. But more important, the additional moon was considered to come within a three-month season, not within one month. And because the almanac's editors had a convention for naming the normal 12 moons of the year, including the four that are the last in each season, the blue moon was considered the third moon of a four-moon season. By their definition, the next one is in February 2000. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 09:20:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16395 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:20:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA23553; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:08:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22934 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:05:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp199.cy-net.net [208.21.195.8]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA16527 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:08:35 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7C14.0B4DF0C0@FLYLO>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:48:34 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7C14.0B4DF0C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: coffee Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:20:38 -0600 Encoding: 10 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 503 I was given coffee bean for seeds from this gent: Ron Werner, Ron's Rare Plants & Seeds 415 Chappel Calumet City, Illinois 60409 His catalog (I have an old version) is pretty interesting, too. My coffee beans are as yet unplanted. If anyone is planting them, I'd appreciate some pointers, too. (Should they be in the greenhouse, etc.) thanks martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 10:09:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17290 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:09:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29002; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:57:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28651 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d154.infoserve.net [199.175.157.154]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA21848 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:01:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003101be7c50$36964c00$9a9dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: Counting Blue Moons? Think Again, Because Definition Is Wrong (from NYTimes) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:58:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 504 oh well The moon was gorgeous last night and Venus was also very bright, Jupiter also quite visible. M. -----Original Message----- From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 5:31 AM Subject: Counting Blue Moons? Think Again, Because Definition Is Wrong (from NYTimes) >Counting Blue Moons? Think Again, Because Definition Is Wrong >[A modern definition is based on an error made five decades ago.] >By HENRY FOUNTAIN > >It was supposed to be a banner year for blue moons, with one in January and >another that rose Wednesday night, as March drew to a close. > >But now the astronomy magazine Sky and Telescope has discovered that the >modern definition of a blue moon -- as the second full moon in a month -- >is based upon an error made more than five decades ago. And the perpetrator >was none other than Sky and Telescope itself. > >Rather than the twice-in-a-month definition, the magazine says in the >current issue, a blue moon was originally understood to be a fourth full >moon in a season, which normally has three. By that definition, neither the >January nor March moons are blue; in fact, 1999 is blue-moonless. > >Donald W. Olson, an astronomer at Southwest Texas State University and an >author of the current article, said the error came to light as the >magazine's editors were preparing an article for the March issue on blue >moons, which this year had sparked much interest because of the appearance >of two of them. (Most years are lucky to have one, no matter what the >definition.) > >In the March article, a Canadian folklorist had traced the definition to a >1946 Sky and Telescope article, which itself made reference to the use of >the term in a 1937 edition of the Maine Farmers' Almanac. > >Olson, who is something of an authority on old almanacs, got a copy of the >1937 edition, and immediately noticed that something was amiss. The blue >moon was listed for Aug. 21, 1937. Since the lunar cycle, from full moon to >full moon, is 29 1/2 days, simple arithmetic showed that this moon could >not have been the second in August. > >Olson fired off an urgent E-mail message to Roger W. Sinnott, one of the >magazine's associate editors. > >"I said, 'Roger, be very careful what you say in the article,' " Olson >recalled. "The blue moon in this almanac I'm sending you is not and cannot >be the second moon in a month." > >The author of the 1946 article, Hugh Pruett, who lived in Oregon, did not >have the 1937 almanac with him when he wrote the piece, Sinnott said. "He >knew enough astronomy to realize that if there are 13 full moons in a year, >one month has to have two of them," Sinnott said. > >Pruett wrote in the article that "this second in a month, so I interpret >it, was called Blue Moon." But he obviously did not realize the date of the >blue moon in the almanac, or that 1937 in fact only had 12 moons. > >Nothing came of the mistake for years, until the writer of a National >Public Radio show on astronomy, having spied the blue moon tidbit while >thumbing through old issues of the magazine, included it in a program in >1980. It was later picked up by the makers of the game Trivial Pursuit, who >included it as a question in 1986. > >Sky and Telescope published the March article acknowledging that the >current definition of a blue moon appeared to be wrong. But determining >what the original definition was required a bit more detective work on the >part of Olson, who eventually obtained more than 40 early editions of the >almanac. All told, there were more than a dozen references to blue moons. >"But not a single one was the second moon in a month," he said. > >Instead, he noticed that all of the blue moons in the almanacs occurred >within a day or two of the 21st of a month, and that they occurred only in >February, May, August and November. Olson saw a seasonal pattern. > >"As soon as I saw those 21st's, I was thinking equinoxes and solstices," he >said. And the four months in question, he noticed, preceded the months that >contain either the equinoxes or solstices. > >The editors of the Maine almanac, he realized, were going by what is known >as a "tropical" year, from winter solstice to winter solstice. And some of >these tropical years do have 13 moons. But more important, the additional >moon was considered to come within a three-month season, not within one >month. And because the almanac's editors had a convention for naming the >normal 12 moons of the year, including the four that are the last in each >season, the blue moon was considered the third moon of a four-moon season. >By their definition, the next one is in February 2000. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 10:36:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17838 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:36:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA01902; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:24:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01856 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:24:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AAEB68@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:27:37 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 1 Apr 99 10:27:32 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 1 Apr 99 10:27:22 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:27:16 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Spirituality and Ag Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01be7b07$f48cac80$7515d1cd@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <161A5B9371B@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 505 It's good to see John Ikerd's article posted here. I think many of you might be interested in the work that he and a group of mostly other econ professors are doing toward shifting the paradigm in science (in particular economics) to include the spiritual realm. They are in the process of writing a beautiful Declaration of Interdependence. Anyway, for some more info on this, please check out the website put up by Patrick Madden (a former econ prof who worked at Penn State for 20 years), who is also one of the main people of this group: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/patrickmadden/ Hope you enjoy, Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 10:45:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18010 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:45:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA03149; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:33:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03022 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:33:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.15.117]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:36:59 +0100 Message-ID: <37039324.112@cwcom.net> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:39:16 +0100 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: biased NAS Committee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 506 Sorry - I would like to comment to the NAS Committee which is to assess the possible impact of GE food crops, even though not a US citizen, particularly on the way in which the US Administration is effectively trying to force Europeans to accept GE foods (and BST-raised beef) by invoking World Trade Organisation agreements on "restraint of trade". However, I have been unable to call up the relevant website by either URL given (by 'P. Hieronimus' and, later, by 'Julie M'). Is there an error in either of those? I call up my mail off-line, so have not been able just to click on the link. Tony N-S From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 12:00:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20210 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:00:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13034; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:47:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12494 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:44:15 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hVLWa15186 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:46:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1d396aa0.3703a2ed@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:46:37 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: epazote Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 507 Allan wrote: They are more explicit when I have used epazonte: They say "Did you put gasoline in these beans?" :-) Recipe: Just use a pinch of stems or dried leaves of epazote in the blender with cumin seeds, garlic, salt and about 4 to 6 ounces of large dried red chili pods (deseeded and torn up). Whirl in blender with boiling water till smooth. 3 to 5 minutes. Simmer on stove for a couple of hours stirring every now and then adding water if the red sauce gets too thick. Watch out epazote is an extremely flavorful herb. Testimony to that Allan's beans and a few batches of red sauce I've made. Hope nobody lit a match after gasoline beans! Whew!!! Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 12:14:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20612 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:14:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA15041; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:02:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14804 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:00:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp219.cy-net.net [208.21.195.28]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA09450 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:04:10 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7C2C.7F29BE80@FLYLO>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:43:36 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7C2C.7F29BE80@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: rather appropriate (animal topic) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:35:05 -0600 Encoding: 28 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 508 On the subject of animal 'husbandry' that was going on BD Now awhile back, ... I just got this book introduction on another list, and thought it fit into the same thread - as the discussion headed here. >From Chelle Rogers (Castalia Llamas) : I just opened a book I just got and the forward says: WE NEED ANOTHER AND A WISER AND PERHAPS A MORE MYSTICAL CONCEPT OF ANIMALS. Remote from universal nature, and living by complicated artifice, man in civilization surveys the creature through the glass of his knowledge and see thereby a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion. We patronize them for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate of having taken form so far below ourselves. And therein we err, and greatly err. For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extentions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. THEY ARE NOT BRETHREN, THEY ARE NOT UNDERLINGS; THEY ARE OTHER NATIONS, CAUGHT WITH OURSELVES IN THE NET OF LIFE AND TIME, FELLOW PRISONERS OF THE SPLENDOUR ND TRAVAIL OF THE EARTH. from The Outermost House by Henry Beston *** The capitals are there as written. The name of this book is The Listening Ones by Naomi M. Stokes Publishers Weekly says: "Once again, the Pacific Northwest - its people, its landscape, and especially its animals - comes alive in Stoke's talented hands." martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 12:39:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA21160 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:38:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18753; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:27:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18413 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:25:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AB100E@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:28:28 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 1 Apr 99 12:28:23 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 1 Apr 99 12:27:55 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:27:54 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: composting, mulching vs "cleanliness" Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <163A82C0F59@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 509 Dear Guillermo, Since you seem to do outreach work and you're in Mexico, I'm wondering how this idea of covered earth is received by others there. When I worked in sustainable ag in Dominican Republic, I preached the gospel of covered earth, but was pretty much ignored. The habit of seeing anything other than bare dirt (usually soil had already been swept away) as "dirty" (sucio) prevailed. It was even taken to ridiculous extremes. I remember one family in particular that did its best to have the "best looking" yard around, and what that ended up meaning was the foundation of their house and the nearby trees rising up from the ground (you know, visa versa, the earth was dimishing below them). It is amazing what an army of brooms can do. But they took the extra step of spraying herbicide on the few tufts of grass that dared to show themselves. This was the community model for ag fields as well. But how different is that from this country where everyone has Scott's Turf Builder-ammended deserts in their front yards? How do we train people to see with different eyes? When will "clean and lovely" be recognized as "denuded and lifeless"? Oops, sorry for the rant. > > > >Although I get about 30 in of rainfall, most of it pours down in a few > >storms during a three month period. A month after the rainy season there > >is practically no residual moisture is the soil. This is far more evident > >in the cultivated and pasture land than in the wild. > > > >In the coffee and fruit trees areas of my place, I just leave whatever > >fall to the ground there (before everything was kept well swept.) That > >alone has improved the quality of the soil and the health of the plants. > >You can even tell the difference between the pathways and the untraveled > >areas. > > > >I some areas of my place where I had bare soil, I am also doing sheet > >composting using a small layer of cow manure and a heavy layer of > >rice-straw mulch. The results are great, you can see the improvement in a > >very short period. Here I water from time to time and I am planning to > >mulch some more during the rainny season to avoid the newly created soil > >from running off. > > > >To keep moisture and increase life in the soil, in collaboration with a > >local ag technical high school, we are preparing a demonstration pasture > >area using the Keyline methodology, (using a modified chisel plow, deep > >rooting crops, worms and spraying the preps). This methodology I think is > >very promising for the recuperation of this area. Althought it will take > >three years to complete, I hope to see some results a couple of months > >after the rainy season is over (it ends in september). > > > >I believe nothing is more important to do, in this semi arid climates, > >than to recuperate the soil's ability to hold moisture, and that can only > >be done by increasing it's capacity to hold life. > > > >Again many thanks for your input and warm regards. > > > >ps I would also like to try out your sauce recipe. > > > > > >Guillermo Romero I. > >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > > > > Dear Guillermo, > > I've always lived in high rainfall environments, but there's something > about deserts that intrigues me. When I started farming biodynamically it > occured to me to ask, "What's the furthest this can be taken to on this > planet?" The answer was reclaiming the Sahara. > > There was a good work-up on the Sahara in March '99 National Geographic. It > is REALLY arid. But you know, it is the former Garden of Eden, and if we > learned how to bring rain back there it would become, once again, what it > was. We've got a lot to learn on this planet before we're fit for space > travel. Reclaiming the Sahara is a principle sign of our preparedness. We > must reclaim it to join the community of intergalactic beings. > > What this Mexican Indian guy, Ed Mendoza, showed me on his arid acres in > southern Arizona was pretty inspiring. I bet if you looked in the long view > at what you are doing with your coffee and fruit and your sheet composting > you'd see what an enormous effect can result. These things may be taken > lightly and not pursued, but if your efforts are consistent, what do you > suppose will result 40 opr 50 years--or 200 or 300--down the road? The > Sahara was forested 15,000 years ago. It didn't turn arid overnight. It > turned arid because of human abuse, and that didn't all happen overnight. I > haven't got a copy, but I believe Jim DeMeo's book gives some accounting of > Wilhelm Reich's insight into this process. > > Someone you might tune into is Alan Savory, of Holistic Resource Management > in New Mexico. It's crazy, but I don't have his address. I'd suggest either > calling ACRES, U.S.A. 800 889 2100, or writing one of his students I'm in > contact with, Raemona Howard, 0984 Daggett Lane, Gypsum, CO 81637. Alan is > from South Africa and has quite a bit of insight into arid environments. > > With all this we are probably exhausting my meagre information about arid > climates. I'll need to learn from you in the future, since you are living > there and here I am at 70 inches annual rainfall. I want to learn, though. > I find it very intriguing. > > Incidentally, we are working across languages. I go to a lot of trouble to > spell things correctly so you can look them up successfully in > dictionaries. Chances are my spelling is correct. I put a lot of wear on a > dictionary. This is for your benefit. I offer this as a measure of respect > to those having to use dictionaries. > > As for the hot sauce, now that you've got the recipe, make it. You probably > can grow better peppers than I can. Grow them BD and they will be > wonderful. You'll become famous for your hot sauce. Georgia is not really a > hot sauce state. > > Best, > > Hugh Lovel > Blairsville, Georgia > > "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." > --Wendell Berry > > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 13:06:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21880 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:06:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA22657; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:54:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22316 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:52:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.137] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.145]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.01.13.19.49.p4) with ESMTP id <0F9I00HFOUEJNB@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:39:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:42:41 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: Hugh's hot sauce recipe (was compost in arid climate) In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <4d702186.3702e1ad@aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id MAA22324 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 510 , > >Just goes to show you. I haven't any idea what epazote is. My dictionary >says epazote is wormseed. This might relate to our American wormseed, or >Jewruselam Oak, a chenapodium used to eliminate parasites around here. It's >spicy, and could be used as a food. What have we here? > >Best, > >Hugh Lovel >Blairsville, Georgia > High Hugh: The formal name for epazote is Chenopodium ambrosioides L. It is indeed used for de-worming (Ascaris L.). Around here, people boil about half a cup of the fresh herb with a half a cup of water liquify the mixture and drink it very early in the morning. Usually during that day they fast or eat very lightly. Epazote is also used widely in Mexico as a condiment. The fresh herb is introduced in quesadillas (corn tortilla with cheese or other filling) before frying,it is added to a number of Mexican sauces, and it is a must in the cooking of black beans, just add a branch or two to the cooking water along with salt, garlic and onion. Greetings Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 14:00:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23446 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:00:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA00083; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:47:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29821 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:45:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d144.infoserve.net [199.175.157.144]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA06369 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:51:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002601be7c70$6a1e3ae0$909dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Re: composting, mulching vs "cleanliness" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:48:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 511 When I was at Kahuman on O'Ahu, Hawai'i back in the early 1980's, as it was the dry-subtropics, I was taught, not only to augment with good compost, but, to cover any exposed earth with hay, leaves, etc., to prevent from drying out. This also led to more organic matter being incorporated eventually into the soil. Was fine on small scale vegie garden, but, in the fields, we did not do that. We intercropped and irrigated. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Anita Graf (Staff) To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 9:33 AM Subject: composting, mulching vs "cleanliness" Dear Guillermo, Since you seem to do outreach work and you're in Mexico, I'm wondering how this idea of covered earth is received by others there. When I worked in sustainable ag in Dominican Republic, I preached the gospel of covered earth, but was pretty much ignored. The habit of seeing anything other than bare dirt (usually soil had already been swept away) as "dirty" (sucio) prevailed. It was even taken to ridiculous extremes. I remember one family in particular that did its best to have the "best looking" yard around, and what that ended up meaning was the foundation of their house and the nearby trees rising up from the ground (you know, visa versa, the earth was dimishing below them). It is amazing what an army of brooms can do. But they took the extra step of spraying herbicide on the few tufts of grass that dared to show themselves. This was the community model for ag fields as well. But how different is that from this country where everyone has Scott's Turf Builder-ammended deserts in their front yards? How do we train people to see with different eyes? When will "clean and lovely" be recognized as "denuded and lifeless"? Oops, sorry for the rant. > > > >Although I get about 30 in of rainfall, most of it pours down in a few > >storms during a three month period. A month after the rainy season there > >is practically no residual moisture is the soil. This is far more evident > >in the cultivated and pasture land than in the wild. > > > >In the coffee and fruit trees areas of my place, I just leave whatever > >fall to the ground there (before everything was kept well swept.) That > >alone has improved the quality of the soil and the health of the plants. > >You can even tell the difference between the pathways and the untraveled > >areas. > > > >I some areas of my place where I had bare soil, I am also doing sheet > >composting using a small layer of cow manure and a heavy layer of > >rice-straw mulch. The results are great, you can see the improvement in a > >very short period. Here I water from time to time and I am planning to > >mulch some more during the rainny season to avoid the newly created soil > >from running off. > > > >To keep moisture and increase life in the soil, in collaboration with a > >local ag technical high school, we are preparing a demonstration pasture > >area using the Keyline methodology, (using a modified chisel plow, deep > >rooting crops, worms and spraying the preps). This methodology I think is > >very promising for the recuperation of this area. Althought it will take > >three years to complete, I hope to see some results a couple of months > >after the rainy season is over (it ends in september). > > > >I believe nothing is more important to do, in this semi arid climates, > >than to recuperate the soil's ability to hold moisture, and that can only > >be done by increasing it's capacity to hold life. > > > >Again many thanks for your input and warm regards. > > > >ps I would also like to try out your sauce recipe. > > > > > >Guillermo Romero I. > >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > > > > Dear Guillermo, > > I've always lived in high rainfall environments, but there's something > about deserts that intrigues me. When I started farming biodynamically it > occured to me to ask, "What's the furthest this can be taken to on this > planet?" The answer was reclaiming the Sahara. > > There was a good work-up on the Sahara in March '99 National Geographic. It > is REALLY arid. But you know, it is the former Garden of Eden, and if we > learned how to bring rain back there it would become, once again, what it > was. We've got a lot to learn on this planet before we're fit for space > travel. Reclaiming the Sahara is a principle sign of our preparedness. We > must reclaim it to join the community of intergalactic beings. > > What this Mexican Indian guy, Ed Mendoza, showed me on his arid acres in > southern Arizona was pretty inspiring. I bet if you looked in the long view > at what you are doing with your coffee and fruit and your sheet composting > you'd see what an enormous effect can result. These things may be taken > lightly and not pursued, but if your efforts are consistent, what do you > suppose will result 40 opr 50 years--or 200 or 300--down the road? The > Sahara was forested 15,000 years ago. It didn't turn arid overnight. It > turned arid because of human abuse, and that didn't all happen overnight. I > haven't got a copy, but I believe Jim DeMeo's book gives some accounting of > Wilhelm Reich's insight into this process. > > Someone you might tune into is Alan Savory, of Holistic Resource Management > in New Mexico. It's crazy, but I don't have his address. I'd suggest either > calling ACRES, U.S.A. 800 889 2100, or writing one of his students I'm in > contact with, Raemona Howard, 0984 Daggett Lane, Gypsum, CO 81637. Alan is > from South Africa and has quite a bit of insight into arid environments. > > With all this we are probably exhausting my meagre information about arid > climates. I'll need to learn from you in the future, since you are living > there and here I am at 70 inches annual rainfall. I want to learn, though. > I find it very intriguing. > > Incidentally, we are working across languages. I go to a lot of trouble to > spell things correctly so you can look them up successfully in > dictionaries. Chances are my spelling is correct. I put a lot of wear on a > dictionary. This is for your benefit. I offer this as a measure of respect > to those having to use dictionaries. > > As for the hot sauce, now that you've got the recipe, make it. You probably > can grow better peppers than I can. Grow them BD and they will be > wonderful. You'll become famous for your hot sauce. Georgia is not really a > hot sauce state. > > Best, > > Hugh Lovel > Blairsville, Georgia > > "We cannot be free if our food sources are controlled by someone else." > --Wendell Berry > > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 14:51:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24947 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:51:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA07736; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:39:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07246 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d144.infoserve.net [199.175.157.144]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA10159 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:41:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000a01be7c77$683e0500$909dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Fw:OFF/Monsanto's wars against Europe and individuals / GEN4-1 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:39:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 512 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:01 AM Subject: GEN4-1 >Here is the front page of a website that you might find interesting > >URL is http://www.infoshop.org/biotechwatch.html > >..... >News about biotechnology, genetically-engineered foods (GE) and activist >campaigns to control this technology. > > >* Sainsbury's ban GM foods from own-brand range >* Organic groups crafting nationwide guidelines >* Financial threat in Frankenstein foods >* Gene remark shocks Farmers >* A question of breeding >* Bioengineered Crops Raise Question Of Tampering With Nature >* RACHEL Report On Genetically Altering The World's Food >* Secret Report On GM Foods Revealed >* U.S. helps foil treaty on genetically modified crops >* Australia helps sink genetic food treaty >* 'Frankenstein food' scare rocks Britain >* Monsanto pushes benefits of GM foods to the environment >* Greenpeace Calls For Nat'l Import Bans On GE Crops >* Seeds of dissension >* U.S., others sink talks on biogenetics regulation >* U.S. Lawsuit Seeks Withdrawal Of Bio-Engineered Crops >* Moratorium on Genetic Engineered Foods in U.K. for 5 Years? >* Legal "Terminator" Threatens Francophone Africa's Farmers > >................ > >Financial Times (London) March 27, 1999 > >Iceland founder acts ahead of the pack > >Malcolm Walker, founder of frozen food retailer Iceland, announced the >removal of genetically modified ingredients from the group's own label >products long before the current furore persuaded J Sainsbury and Marks >and Spencer to follow suit. This week he reported a bounce back in annual >profits from L43.5m to L55.1m. Page 20 > >....... > >The Toronto Star March 28, 1999 > >LEADING THE CHARGE AGAINST MONSANTO > > BODY: I wrote last week of India's farmers leading the last cavalry charge >against the big guns of Monsanto. Just about everyone is at war with >Monsanto over its newest technological achievements involving genetically >-modified crops and plants. Those few who are on Monsanto's side include >the United States and world powers such as Panama, Peru, and Canada. > >In February, members of the European Parliament voted to restrict further >importation of certain GM products until sufficient study had been done >with respect to possible dangers to human health and the environment. Our >own government, apparently without a mind of its own, has followed the >American lead which is to leave it to the free market to decide. The >exception to this was the bovine growth hormone BST, a Monsanto product >that boosts milk production in cows. > >The federal health department, after prolonged and bitter internal debate, >followed Europe's decision and banned BST, on the grounds of its effect on >the cows. > >It is possible to be supportive of genetically -modified seeds and yet >support the need for further research. Against the benefit of greater crop >yields are the possible, considerable dangers. The Europeans are cautious, >the Americans are not (it is largely their technology and to their profit); >Canada supports the Americans. > >Monsanto, meanwhile, is on the warpath. It is resisting any attempt by >governments to require food containing GM products to be labelled as such, >or milk products from cows fed with bovine growth hormone being so >labelled. But labelling is only part of the problem: Last February, >European health-food importers were obliged to destory 87,000 packages of >tortilla chips, imported from the U.S.A., found to contain traces of >genetically - modified corn. The tainted corn was likely cross-pollinated >from GM maize grown in a neighbouring field. > >Monsanto is also militantly opposing those it suspects of hijacking its >patents. The company is presently suing a Saskatchewan farmer for illegally >growing Monsanto GM granola which a hired detective agency found among his >crops. The farmer claims the seeds blew in from a nearby dump (where seed >sacks are cast away) and took root in his fields. He has spent thousands >thus far in legal fees; his case is due in court this autumn. > >An effort by 170 nations to reach an accord regulating the commerce in >genetically -engineered products foundered at this month's meeting in >Colombia. The United States, along with a host of lobbying corporations, >and of course Canada, were among those seeking to undermine the initiative. >They succeeded. > >The Colombia protocol was intended to follow the convention on Biological >Diversity, ratified by 174 nations, including Canada, at the 1992 Earth >Summit meetings in Rio de Janeiro. The Americans, however, have not yet >concurred. Although President Clinton signed the treaty in 1993, the Senate >has delayed giving consent. > >English Nature, the British government's statutory adviser on these >matters, has written Prime Minister Tony Blair to offer its measured >opinion: ''Our position,'' the letter reads, ''on the likely effect of >herbicide tolerant crops is based on good scientific evidence, which >demonstates that declines in wild plants, insects, and birds on >agricultural land is partly due to the use of more efficient herbicides. >More research has recently been commissioned ... but will not report until >2003 at the earliest. ''Our advice to government has been that herbicide >tolerant crops and insect- resistant crops, not all GM crops, should not be >released commercially until this research has been completed... It is >important that English Nature be in a position to reassure the public that >the technology is environmentally safe. .. We cannot assure the public >about this currently.'' > >The British consumer has, at least, a friend in the court of Tony Blair. >Canadians have - you won't like this - only the Canadian Senate, whose >Agriculture Committee alone took on Monsanto and its bovine growth hormone, >along with senior health department officials, and the minister, Allan >Rock. The government, apparently, is in mortal fear of being sued through >chapter 11 of the NAFTA - every multinational corporation's best friend - >and of losing face in the WTO. > >Monsanto, you may recall, are the wonderful folk who brought the world >Agent Orange, a defoliant as deadly to people as to weeds, a leading >manufacturer of PCBs which cause cancer, and who sued farmers daring to >label their produce ''BST free.'' > >It was the Senate of Canada that gave health department researchers the >opportunity to testify to their unwillingness to approve BST and to report >Monsanto's friendly offer of $1 million to $2 million to Drs. Haydon and >Drennan, made by a Monsanto representative and which Drennan has said he >considered as a bribe. (Monsanto has denied it.) > >The Minister and senior officials sought to intimidate the witnesses and >censor their testimony, and the government has denied the Senate committee >the power to subpoena department records. > >This is a Liberal government? > >Dalton Camp is a political commentator. His columns appear Sundays and >Wednesdays in The Star. > >................. > >Los Angeles Times March 28, 1999 Opinion Desk > >COMMENTARY; PRINCE CHARLES TO TONY BLAIR: GET LOST; > >FARMING: THE HEIR APPARENT ADAMANTLY CAMPAIGNS AGAINST GENETICALLY >ENGINEERED CROPS. > >BYLINE: ALEXANDER COCKBURN, >Alexander Cockburn writes for the Nation and other publications > >BODY: Even in the darkest days of Princess Di mania, when his name was mud >among the masses, I had high hopes for Prince Charles as a radical thorn >in the side of business-as-usual. He's always been conspicuous for >sensible environmental positions athwart conventional opinion--on the >Amazon rainforest, land use and organic >agriculture. > >Now he's justifying my expectations, launching princely broadsides against >some of capital's mightiest corporate powers, specifically Monsanto and >the genetic -industrial complex. > >Last month, Labor Prime Minister Tony Blair ordered the prince to shut down >his royal Web site (www.princeofwales.gov.uk), which features vigorous >denunciations by the heir apparent of GM-- genetically modified crops. (In >the U.S., it's GE-- genetically engineered crops.) The prince refused point >blank the prime minister's command. > >Genetic material, the prince thunders in one posting, "does not stay where >it is put. Pollen is spread by the wind and by insects. GM crops can >contaminate conventional and organic crops growing nearby." Such crops >eventually mean "sterile fields offering little or no food or shelter to >wild life." > >The prince adds, "I wonder about the claims that some GM crops are >essential to feed the world's growing populations. . . . How will the >companies who own this technology make a sufficient profit from selling >their products to the world's poorest people? Wouldn't it be better to >concentrate instead on the sustainable techniques which can double or >treble the yields from traditional farming systems?" > >It may seem ironic that the British heir apparent should be adopting a >principled, enlightened position in marked contrast to Blair and the social >democrats. But their roles are in character. Blair's tradition of social >democracy has a frenzied enthusiasm for supposed technological progress. It >was Harold Wilson, Labor Party leader in the '60s, who used to hymn "the >white heat of technology." The tradition of rambling and rural hiking that >used to mark British radicals has long since gone. > >Far dearer to Blair's heart are big corporations--most notably >Monsanto--that are pushing patents for genetically modified crops into >Europe. Blair ordered the prince to shut down his Web site, calling it >political meddling. GM is a hot issue in the UK. > >The stakes are high for Monsanto. Consumers Union estimates that Monsanto's >bovine growth hormone, rBGH, could earn the company $ 500 million a year in >the U.S. and another $ 1 billion a year internationally. The haul from >Monsanto's Round-Up Ready soybeans, potatoes and corn and its terminator >seeds could be tens of billions more. > >Faced with the almost certain prospect that the European Union would ban >the import of Monsanto genetically modified corn in 1998, the company >unleashed an unprecedented lobbying effort, flying a group of critical >journalists to the U.S. to visit its corporate headquarters and labs with a >side trip to the White House. > >Bill Clinton and Al Gore got into the act, engaging in some last-minute >arm-twisting of the Irish and French prime ministers. France and Ireland >caved in to the pressure by last July. This spring, Monsanto's GM corn will >be planted in Europe. > >In Britain, the Labor government, secure in its majority, is nonetheless >embarrassed by blunders on the GM issue, including that Lord Sainsbury, >Labor's science minister, who is deeply involved in GM decision-making, had >financial and familial ties in GM companies. > >Prince Charles commands considerable public support from Britons deeply >suspicious of scientific manipulation of their food. The '60s live on, in >the most surprising ways. A decent slice of Prince Charles's world >view--cosmic holism, organic communitarianism--mirrors that of an American >hippie in the late '60s. After all, organic agriculture in America owes >much to the hippies, as does Humboldt Gold, an example of biological >manipulation of the most uplifting sort. > >........ > >Africa News March 25, 1999 > >Kenya; Lobby cautions against genetically -modified foods > >BYLINE: Catherine Mgendi, The Nation (Nairobi) > >Nairobi - There is more at stake in the on-going biosafety debate than >the politics of free trade and biodiversity conservation. > >Environmentalists say one of the greatest concerns of the biotechnology >industry is the health implication of eating genetically -altered foods. > >According to Greenpeace International, geneticists are "altering life >itself, dabbling with genes" to produce unnatural living plants and >animals. Greenpeace calls the potential consequences of this millennium >industry " frightening", saying scientists are sourcing genes of their >products from organisms such as rats, scorpions, bacteria and even humans, >which have never been part of the food chain. > >"The danger is they are mixing genes from entirely unrelated species; >animal genes are going into vegetables, bacteria genes into food crops, and >human genes into animals. ... Never before have genes from bacteria or >scorpions been part of the human diet!" says the environmental lobby, >lamenting that safety tests on genetically -engineered foods have been >"terrifyingly inadequate". How will we protect our health when we can >never tell what strange genes have been put in our basic foodstuffs? > >........ > >Portugal feed industry says GM safety paramount > >By David Brough LISBON, March 25 (Reuters) - > >Portugal's animal feed industry believes food safety is paramount in the >debate over whether to use genetically modified (GM) foodstuffs, a >spokesman said on Thursday. > >Luis Marques, secretary general of the Feed Compounders Association >(IACA), said it was too early for IACA to take a position on GM foods as >not enough information was available about possible long-term health >risks. Our biggest concern is for food safety," he told Reuters in a >telephone interview. "The debate on genetically modified organisms (GMOs) >remains confused because there is no concrete information on the >possible consequences of GMOs for health," he added. > >........ > >>From BBC News Website page: >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_307000/307544.stm > > Co-op pulls out of GM trials > >The UK's biggest farming organisation has pulled out of government trials >of genetically modified crops after concerns were raised by >environmentalists. ... The Co-operative Wholesale Society (CWS), which >farms 80,000 acres across the UK, was to have hosted two of the trials [of >genetically modified crops]. >But the CWS says it will be pulling out of the tests for this year as it >believed the tests themselves could raise the very fears they are designed >to allay. > >..... > >29 March 1999 Farmers Weekly (UK) > >CPS drops case against anti-GM women > >THE Crown Prosecution Service has dropped charges against two women accused >of destroying a test site for genetically modified (GM) crops in Devon. >Jacklyn Sheedy and Elizabeth Snook were arrested last August after >protestors uprooted a crop of herbicide-resistant maize at Hood Barton >Farm, near Totnes. The site is only a few hundred yards from a leading >organic vegetable farm. > > >_________________________________________________________ >Richard Wolfson, PhD >Consumer Right to Know Campaign, >for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term >Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, >500 Wilbrod Street >Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 >tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 >email: rwolfson@concentric.net > >Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html >contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous >genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering >news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above >address. Or see website for details. >__________________________________________________________ >__________________________________________________________ > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 16:26:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27333 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:26:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA21773; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:14:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21350 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:11:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AB528E@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:14:55 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 1 Apr 99 16:14:51 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 1 Apr 99 16:14:23 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:14:20 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: rather appropriate (animal topic) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01BE7C2C.7F29BE80@FLYLO> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1676E847DC3@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 513 Has anyone read the book (different from the movie I'm told) _The Horse Whisperer_ (at least I think that's the title, it might be some variation of that). I've seen it in the books-on-animals section in Barnes and Noble. I haven't read it properly yet, but I've read a lot of it in snatches on outings to the book store. It's wonderful and totally inspiring as regards Martha's post below. It's the story of a man who has an unbelievable communication not only with horses but he later extended it deer and I don't know who else. It's a testimony to the sensitivity and awareness in animals most people never give a second thought too. It's also written in a very real, down-to-earth manner. This is the real life experience of one unusual man. Check it out. Anita From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: rather appropriate (animal topic) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:35:05 -0600 Reply-to: bdnow@envirolink.org On the subject of animal 'husbandry' that was going on BD Now awhile back, ... I just got this book introduction on another list, and thought it fit into the same thread - as the discussion headed here. >From Chelle Rogers (Castalia Llamas) : I just opened a book I just got and the forward says: WE NEED ANOTHER AND A WISER AND PERHAPS A MORE MYSTICAL CONCEPT OF ANIMALS. Remote from universal nature, and living by complicated artifice, man in civilization surveys the creature through the glass of his knowledge and see thereby a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion. We patronize them for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate of having taken form so far below ourselves. And therein we err, and greatly err. For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extentions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. THEY ARE NOT BRETHREN, THEY ARE NOT UNDERLINGS; THEY ARE OTHER NATIONS, CAUGHT WITH OURSELVES IN THE NET OF LIFE AND TIME, FELLOW PRISONERS OF THE SPLENDOUR ND TRAVAIL OF THE EARTH. from The Outermost House by Henry Beston *** The capitals are there as written. The name of this book is The Listening Ones by Naomi M. Stokes Publishers Weekly says: "Once again, the Pacific Northwest - its people, its landscape, and especially its animals - comes alive in Stoke's talented hands." martha Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 16:31:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27464 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:31:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA22618; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:20:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA22350 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:18:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.137] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.146]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.01.13.19.49.p4) with ESMTP id <0F9J00IKL4A35X@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 14:51:01 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: coffee In-reply-to: <01BE7C14.0B4DF0C0@FLYLO> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id QAA22359 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 514 >I was given coffee bean for seeds from this gent: >Ron Werner, Ron's Rare Plants & Seeds >415 Chappel >Calumet City, Illinois 60409 > >His catalog (I have an old version) is pretty interesting, too. >My coffee beans are as yet unplanted. If anyone is planting them, I'd >appreciate some pointers, too. (Should they be in the greenhouse, etc.) >thanks >martha Hi Martha: Sprouting coffee beans it is not at all hard but they take about a month to do so. Keep them dark at a temperature around 80 º F and moist, not wet, the beans tend to rot easily when kept too moist. The coffee plant will take some light frost, but I am afraid the Illinois weather will be too much, so yes you need a greenhouse. Place the plants bellow other plants that can provide shade or use a 75 % shade cloth above them. The coffee plant will produce beans in a sunny spot but the plant will not live very long and will be prompt to disease in those conditions. Hope this helps you. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 16:32:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27472 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:32:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA22670; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:20:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA22362 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:18:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.137] ("port 2048"@[148.233.186.146]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.01.13.19.49.p4) with ESMTP id <0F9J00IKL4A35X@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 15:18:06 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: composting, mulching vs "cleanliness" In-reply-to: <163A82C0F59@agecon.uga.edu> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id QAA22377 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 515 >Dear Guillermo, >Since you seem to do outreach work and you're in Mexico, I'm >wondering how this idea of covered earth is received by others >there. When I worked in sustainable ag in Dominican Republic, I >preached the gospel of covered earth, but was pretty much ignored. >The habit of seeing anything other than bare dirt (usually soil had >already been swept away) as "dirty" (sucio) prevailed. It was even >taken to ridiculous extremes. I remember one family in particular >that did its best to have the "best looking" yard around, and what >that ended up meaning was the foundation of their house and the >nearby trees rising up from the ground (you know, visa versa, the >earth was dimishing below them). It is amazing what an army of >brooms can do. But they took the extra step of spraying herbicide on >the few tufts of grass that dared to show themselves. This was the >community model for ag fields as well. But how different is that >from this country where everyone has Scott's Turf Builder-ammended >deserts in their front yards? How do we train people to see with >different eyes? When will "clean and lovely" be recognized as >"denuded and lifeless"? Oops, sorry for the rant. >> > Yes Anita, it is the same story here. In a semiurban setting it is quite normal to see the bare ground around the house. Amidst a whole array of plants growing in containers and some times in the soil, but no ground cover. The areas of bare dirt are used for keeping animals, trowing away the bucket full of detergents or other cleaning agents, children's playground, etc. All those activities plus the weather makes it really hard to keep some cover down. In addition, most of the organic material is burnt or trown away as trash. In the small town where I live about 70 % of what is taken to the dumps (sanitary refills) is organic matter. In the well off urban areas, we have the plague of English grass that characterize the middle class of the world. It looks "better", but it takes a lot of tap water and effort to keep. In the rural setting, where I work, the modern campesinos like to see their land completely clean of ag debris after harvest and it is kept that way for a number of very dry and windy months. The organic matter that it is not eaten by the cattle it is burnt. We are trying to do things diferently with a few and more open minded growers, with the hope that they could improve their income first and serve as an example for others to follow. The health and evironmental arguments here are at best secondary to the income and survival ones. So I guess the story of Dominican R., Africa, Mexico, etc. is pretty similar, is'nt ? Kind regards. Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 16:45:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27840 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:45:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24354; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:32:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA23943 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:30:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AB5751@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:33:17 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 1 Apr 99 16:33:12 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 1 Apr 99 16:33:09 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:33:08 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) From Sanet, a phycists response to GE Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <167BEA06EB2@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 516 If you don't subscribe to the Sanet list serve, I thought you would appreciate seeing a copy of this that was posted there. I think that most bders will identify with it. Anita Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:59:10 -0400 From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-28; Fwd, [Reposted with permission] Brief Address to Wellington Forum on Genetically Modified Food by Peter R Wills, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Department of Physics, University of Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand 25 March 1999 Organisms are dynamic. In fact everything that happens in biology is based on endless orderly change, especially the flow of matter. The natural patterns and regularities that we observe in biology depend on the maintenance of processes of change. This applies from the microscopic level of the cell - a teeming zoo of molecular motion - all the way up to the biosphere - with its rich and variegated spatially-differentiated ecologies. How all of this works cannot be understood solely in terms of material structure, whether we are talking about the proteins and DNA molecules in a cell, or the individual organisms existing in an ecosystem. The effects of a gene cannot be assessed by looking at the static relationship between its sequence, the letters of the DNA message it represents, and the characteristics of the organism to which it is related. The meaning of a gene is determined by the context in which it is expressed. It also contributes to that context. So, when we swap a gene from one organism to another, we cannot know in advance what all the effects will be. We cannot know, not even in principle. That is very important because ecological relationships and evolutionary change rely on what is unusual, the innovation which arises as a result of mutation or the establishment of new interactions. The way this works is that events propagate through biological systems. The variation created by genetic mutation and recombination is the most elementary and fundamental way in which things propagate in biological systems. Three and a half billion years of evolution have given rise to only a very few means of genetic information transfer and propagation. These limitations have produced what we now call the tree of life. The maintenance of boundaries between constellations of particular genes in particular organisms is what keeps species and their interactions in the relationships that constitute dynamic eco-systems. Over the last few 10,000 years, intentional human actions, selective breeding programs of ever- increasing sophistication, have coerced desired changes from the game of roulette that reproduction plays with genes. But the basic rules of the game have not, and could not by such means, be altered. In the last quarter decade, as a result of what we have learnt in molecular biology, we have started to break all of these rules. No we make genetic transfers at will. It is now routine to effect changes which could never be coerced out of the billion-year-old processes which govern ecological interactions and evolutionary change. The type, speed and scale of genetic change now being undertaken will affect the dynamics of biological systems, ecology and evolution, at their very basis. Changes that cannot be assessed in advance will progressively propagate through the biosphere. The pattern of those changes cannot be expected to fit in with what we already know. The changes we are making will propagate with their own novel dynamics and the outcomes will be far- reaching. The only thing we can know with certainty is that we do not know, and cannot in principle know, what the character of the ultimate outcome will be, except that it will be different from anything that we are familiar with. Using an analogy to stereotypical gender relationships, an analogy that I think is fully justified here : Mankind will be left trying to beat Nature at her own game, playing according to rules that have been imposed with the express aim of exercising unprecedented power over her. She will wait, and when she speaks back in the new language which has been created for her, Mankind will have already lost what would have been of the greatest value. Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Apr 1 17:09:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA28730 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:09:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27726; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:57:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (smtp1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27305 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:54:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199904012154.QAA27305@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 16532 invoked from network); 1 Apr 1999 14:57:25 -0700 Received: from ts2-19.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO ?209.161.18.170?) (209.161.18.170) by smtp2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 14:57:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 14:56:40 -0700 Subject: Re: rather appropriate (animal topic) From: "Pam DeTray" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 517 Anita, I liked the book very much, and looked forward to seeing the movie--until I heard it was a Robert Redford project. As I read, I kept seeing Helen Mirren in the lead female role, and was disappointed to hear that that role would be played by a much younger actress. It won't be something I'll choose for an evening's entertainment, but I did love the book. I believe there are more than one "horse whisperer" in this country--there's a man down in southeast Idaho who's been featured on the news several times since the movie was released. What a wonderful time in history to be alive, when the spirit of animals is recognized even in mainstream media. When I contemplate the future consciousness level of our children and grandchildren, just a few generations down the road, it boggles my mind nearly as much as my first consciousness of the concept of infinity. Pam DeTray psdetray@cyberhighway.net ---------- >From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" >Has anyone read the book (different from the movie I'm told) _The >Horse Whisperer_ (at least I think that's the title, it might be some >variation of that). I've seen it in the books-on-animals section in >Barnes and Noble. I haven't read it properly yet, but I've read a >lot of it in snatches on outings to the book store. It's wonderful >and totally inspiring as regards Martha's post below. It's the story >of a man who has an unbelievable communication not only with horses >but he later extended it deer and I don't know who else. It's a >testimony to the sensitivity and awareness in animals most people >never give a second thought too. It's also written in a very real, >down-to-earth manner. This is the real life experience of one >unusual man. Check it out. Anita From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 00:27:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05864 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA03619; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:15:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29186 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.53.216.81] (io2p19.ark.com [209.53.216.81]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with SMTP id UAA14870 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:34:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199904020434.UAA14870@ark.com> Subject: It's that time again Date: Thu, 1 Apr 99 20:36:22 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Lang Price To: "BD forum" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 518 April 1 Today we stirred barrel compound through our flow form and spread with wisks over our 5 acre veggie patch and 15 acre hay fields. The flow form ran all night under a full moon to catch the vibes. The fields were disced in the warm Vancouver Island sunshine. Our crew is coming in Monday for the first spring planting. This is farming and I love it. Eleven years and more to come. If your in the area April 24 drop by, check out our farm and listen to Gunther Hauk discuss "the plight of the Bees" Bee there From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 00:27:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05872 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:27:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA03581; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:15:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07211 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:38:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp309.cy-net.net [208.21.195.118]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA02736 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:41:16 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7C63.A3C11860@FLYLO>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:18:20 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7C63.A3C11860@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: rather appropriate (animal topic) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:18:15 -0600 Encoding: 42 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 519 There are a couple of 'gentling' training groups. The Mallon Method is one, who also 'whispers' to communicate with horses and llamas and other stock they're trying to teach. Also, someone called Pony Boy has written two training books, one geared for teenagers mostly, and he uses quietude and horse 'sense' to train both horse and rider. He's been interviewed on Talk Spot and comes across as very sensible. When asked if he'd seen/ read Horse Whisperer, he replied it would be judgmental for him to do so. I read HW awhile back also the next one by same author called The Loop. (About trapping wolves.) If HW movie differs wildly from the book, imagine how much the book (fiction after all) must differ from the person they're trying to portray. A long time ago, I was with my Dad (I was pretty little) and an old cowboy showed us a trick he used to judge which horse he wants to start training. Now this man was a holdover from the Goodnight Trail days, and I loved to listen to his stories. We all went into the corral with some yearling colts and squatted down and just talked like they weren't there. This guy had picked up some pebbles and was casually tossing them from hand to hand while we all 'hunkered down'. As soon as the horses settled down and stopped showing us their haunches, he watched which ones were turned toward us, ears pricked and which were looking for a way out. He'd take a stone and just flip it off to the side, or in the middle of the ring. Two horses out of the 10 or so were curious enough and fearless of us enough to walk over to see what he was doing. he stood up, still tossing the stones, and they didn't booger at all. We all walked out and he said those were the two he'd start with, they let their intelligence overrule their first fear and that was the first break he looked for. he had a cute story that took me years to figure out. When asked how he got his horses SO BIG, (Quarter horses that are draft sized), he said he has a secret way of going out to the feed trough and picking up some of the feed and rubbing it between their eyes. Well, everyone thought it was something in the rubbing. Years later it dawned on me, he said PICK FEED UP OUT OF THE TROUGH, so it meant that he merely kept feed out free choice. Speaking of animals,, Annie just kidded with twin bucks. I had doelings sold of course, but she's proud as punch over them anyhow. So am I, even if it is an April Fool joke on me. (She kidded but I'm the one covered with amniotic fluid. Why is this stuff so astringent?) Happily going in to shower, martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 00:27:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05880 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:27:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA03513; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:14:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06025 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:20:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp309.cy-net.net [208.21.195.118]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00079 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:23:33 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7C61.2EF48000@FLYLO>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:00:45 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7C61.2EF48000@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: coffee Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:48:59 -0600 Encoding: 8 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 520 Thanks Guillermo! I'm in Texas, sorta South/Central. And I have 3 citrus trees and a dwarf red banana under greenhouse so I think the coffee might just work in there too. As long as they don't get really tall, that is. All we had in the way of winter was 'light frost', not hardly enough to wrap pipes, but this has been an unusual winter. We can count on anywhere from dips into the low twenties some winters. I think Ron's Exotics is all under glass in Illinois, tho. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 03:15:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA07187 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:15:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA13374; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08238 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:20:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from slip202-135-86-213.ak.nz.ibm.net (slip202-135-86-213.ak.nz.ibm.net [202.135.86.213]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA64972 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:23:26 GMT Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:23:26 GMT Message-Id: <199904020623.GAA64972@out5.ibm.net> X-Sender: lblair@pop03.ca.us.ibm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Lynton Blair Subject: RE: rather appropriate (animal topic) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 521 While on this topic of being 'in touch' with animals, I would welcome suggestions of what to do about rats? The ones we have are gray, quite bueatiful really, and in the last few years have become more bold and more in number. They spend the night (and some of the day) climbing thru the banana trees. I think the reason for their increase is because the cat we now have does not seem to be interested in catching them. My question is, given the bad press that rats have got I tend to want to eradicate them. On the other hand, if they are healthy enough I don't really mind. What suggestions does anyone have? Lynton From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 08:20:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09198 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:20:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA24830; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:08:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24724 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:05:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.17]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:11:48 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:09:16 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog now online Message-ID: <1E9C3FA16E2976F685256747004836B6.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 522 To: NE community food systems cc: Eric Toensmeier , Gita A Mann Subject: Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog now online If you want to be happy for a year, plant a garden. If you want to be happy for a lifetime, plant perennial vegetables... The 1999 Perennial Vegetable Seed Company catalog is now available on-line at http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html About PVSC: Our goal is to introduce the public to a diversity of perennial vegetables. These plants have mostly been neglected as food plants, because they do not fit well into annual cropping systems. However, many are low-maintenance, virtually trouble-free crops which provide food year after year! There are perennial vegetables for all occasions, from formal border and herb gardens, to the shade of fruit and nut trees, to naturalizing in your backyard prairie, forest, or wetland. A great diversity of perennial vegetable species exist. Some have been cultivated for centuries, some are wild, and some are only now being developed as crops. As PVSC grows, we will offer more and more species, many of which are not commercially available in North America. This year we are growing out improved Groundnut (Apios americana), as well as Sea Beet (Beta vulgaris maritima), the perennial ancestor of beets and chard, Turkish Rocket (Bunias orientalis), a tasty perennial mustard relative, and more. We are hot on the trail of perennial Brassica species, including perennial broccolis and kales, and their wild ancestor, perennial Wild Cabbage (Brassica oleracea). On the new website you can also find out about a special offer on _Edible Forest Gardens_, a new, comprehensive guide to perennial vegetables and perennial polyculture systems. ***************** T. Robert Fetter Research Assistant Dept. of Resource Economics Draper Hall University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 phone 413-545-5716 fax 413-545-5853 trf@student.umass.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 09:02:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA09614 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:02:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA26484; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:50:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26397 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.11]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:54:12 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:51:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Unleashed Coyote Captured in Central Park Message-ID: <3417B183B68EA3C385256747004BDBED.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 523 Unleashed Coyote Captured in Central Park By DOUGLAS MARTIN He was first spotted Tuesday night by an alert police officer. The next night, he was spotted again, and dozens of officers were called in to join the search. As a police helicopter buzzed overhead, he emerged from the brambles, running furiously. And then, he was gone. A coyote was loose in Central Park. Far from an April Fool's joke, it almost seemed that some character out of the Old West had stormed into town and a posse had mobilized to bring him to bay. In fact, the coyote was a terrified fugitive, and after the police were able to corner him, he was tranquilized, captured and left to await his fate: a short stay at the Bronx Zoo and a trip to the wilds upstate. Parks officials say that coyotes have become an increasing presence in New York City, particularly in the Bronx, but how one got onto the island of Manhattan -- and more specifically, into Central Park -- remains a mystery. At first, parks and animal care officials were not sure the animal was indeed a coyote, and not some scruffy mutt. But he seemed to match basic descriptions: a burnished silver coat with black detailing, legs and snout the color of a bad sunburn. His tail, which he held low as he ran, was classic coyote. After his capture, animal care officials verified his true identity, and said that he would get a full physical examination sometime Friday. The animal's presence in the shadows of some of New York's grandest apartment buildings shows how coyotes have become a presence in the New York region. Originally, coyotes lived only in Western states, but they have spread to every state except Hawaii. Despite determined efforts by ranchers and others to eradicate them, there are believed to be about twice as many as there were in 1850, according to the May-June issue of Audubon magazine. "Coyotes are spreading not just in ranching country but in metropolises nationwide, from the suburbs of Los Angeles to the streets of New York City," the magazine said. Apparently not content with suburban life, they have increasingly begun to check out the city. Henry Stern, the city's Park Commissioner, said that in recent years, coyotes have been regularly sighted in the Bronx, in Van Cortlandt Park and Woodlawn Cemetery. A coyote that was found dead on the Major Deegan Expressway is now on display -- in a stuffed state -- in the Arsenal, the Park's Department's headquarters in Central Park. Parks officials think it most likely yesterday's coyote came from the Bronx, probably crossing the Henry Hudson Bridge. Adding credence to this theory was a report from a Parks Department office worker that she saw an animal that could have been a coyote on Saturday, at 149th Street and Riverside Drive, a possible route down from the Bronx. How it then may have navigated through the West Side remains a mystery. By 11 A.M. yesterday, a small army of reporters had shown up at a news conference, which had been organized to discuss Easter celebrations in the park, and questioned the Parks Commissioner about the coyote. The news conference came to an abrupt end when word arrived that police and parks workers had the coyote cornered: he had somehow got into the Hallett Nature Sanctuary, a four-acre preserve that is fenced and closed to the public except for occasional guided tours. Everyone who had gathered at the Bethesda Fountain, just north of 72d Street, raced to the southeastern corner of the park. Police cars, park enforcement vehicles and ambulances were everywhere. The coyote darted about, charging in and out of view, as the police repeatedly fired tranquilizer darts that fell well behind the speedy animal. Around noon, the animal dived into a nearby pond. He swam furiously, finally pulling himself onto a rock. At that point, he was hit by a tranquilizer dart, then another. He tore off, finally slowing seven blocks later near a World War I monument on the Mall. He staggered drunkenly, then collapsed. For all the excitement, most Central Park visitors seemed totally oblivious. Joggers jogged, ice skaters skated and people lined up for hot dogs. A man with a golden cocker spaniel nodded and walked silently on after asking what all the commotion was about. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 09:30:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA10017 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:30:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA27582; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:18:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27407 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:14:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00ABC2DF@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 9:17:55 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 2 Apr 99 09:17:50 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 2 Apr 99 09:17:42 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:17:38 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: rather appropriate (animal topic) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01BE7C63.A3C11860@FLYLO> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1787D567D1E@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 524 Martha, thanks for the stories. Very nice. And congratulations on your new kids. I just wanted to verify about the book. The one I'm talking about is a real life story. The best that I can figure is there are two similar books, one fiction (from which the movie follows) and the other one which maybe titled more like, "The Man Who Talks To Horses," or some such thing. I just can't remember exactly. Anyway, the only reason I found out about this book in the first place is that I heard the guy interviewed on NPR. He's the guy who helped train Queen Elizebeth's horses. The book is a sort of autobiography -- even has picures. It's the *real life* aspect that I really like. Anita Martha wrote: There are a couple of 'gentling' training groups. The Mallon Method is one, who also 'whispers' to communicate with horses and llamas and other stock they're trying to teach. Also, someone called Pony Boy has written two training books, one geared for teenagers mostly, and he uses quietude and horse 'sense' to train both horse and rider. He's been interviewed on Talk Spot and comes across as very sensible. When asked if he'd seen/ read Horse Whisperer, he replied it would be judgmental for him to do so. I read HW awhile back also the next one by same author called The Loop. (About trapping wolves.) If HW movie differs wildly from the book, imagine how much the book (fiction after all) must differ from the person they're trying to portray. A long time ago, I was with my Dad (I was pretty little) and an old cowboy showed us a trick he used to judge which horse he wants to start training. Now this man was a holdover from the Goodnight Trail days, and I loved to listen to his stories. We all went into the corral with some yearling colts and squatted down and just talked like they weren't there. This guy had picked up some pebbles and was casually tossing them from hand to hand while we all 'hunkered down'. As soon as the horses settled down and stopped showing us their haunches, he watched which ones were turned toward us, ears pricked and which were looking for a way out. He'd take a stone and just flip it off to the side, or in the middle of the ring. Two horses out of the 10 or so were curious enough and fearless of us enough to walk over to see what he was doing. he stood up, still tossing the stones, and they didn't booger at all. We all walked out and he said those were the two he'd start with, they let their intelligence overrule their first fear and that was the first break he looked for. he had a cute story that took me years to figure out. When asked how he got his horses SO BIG, (Quarter horses that are draft sized), he said he has a secret way of going out to the feed trough and picking up some of the feed and rubbing it between their eyes. Well, everyone thought it was something in the rubbing. Years later it dawned on me, he said PICK FEED UP OUT OF THE TROUGH, so it meant that he merely kept feed out free choice. Speaking of animals,, Annie just kidded with twin bucks. I had doelings sold of course, but she's proud as punch over them anyhow. So am I, even if it is an April Fool joke on me. (She kidded but I'm the one covered with amniotic fluid. Why is this stuff so astringent?) Happily going in to shower, martha Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 10:42:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10947 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA03053; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:30:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.104]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02984 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:30:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.19.126]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:34:23 +0100 Message-ID: <3704E3F4.4AD0@cwcom.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:36:20 +0100 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: NAS Committee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 525 Julie - Many thanks for posting the web-page. No further difficulties: I was able to post my message (a bit different from your suggested one, since I'm coming from somewhere else). Whatever the content, I hope a message from across the Atlantic micro-furrows a few brows in NAS ! Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 12:04:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12183 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11273; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:52:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA10994 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:50:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:50:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199904021650.LAA10994@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 16091 invoked from network); 2 Apr 1999 16:53:34 -0000 Received: from i48-34-06.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.61.6) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 16:53:34 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: OFF: Excrement Happens Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 526 BDers may be interested in the following off topic =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #644 . . ---April 1, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . EXCREMENT HAPPENS -- PART 1 . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . ================================================================= EXCREMENT HAPPENS -- PART 1 Recently we came upon a history of the management of human excreta -- urine and feces -- starting back in the mists of time and working forward to the present day.[1] It turns out that this unlikely topic can tell us something important about the way humans make environmental decisions. For that reason, we're going to recap the story here. The original author, Abby A. Rockefeller, deserves credit for all the original work, though not, of course, blame for any of our lapses or misinterpretations in the retelling. Where we have supplemented Ms. Rockefeller's history with additional facts, they appear inside square brackets. * * * Humans began to lead a settled life, growing crops to supplement hunting and gathering, only about 10,000 years ago. For all time before that, humans "deposited their excreta -- urine and feces -- on the ground, here and there, in the manner of all other land creatures." The soil and its communities (including plants, small animals and microorganisms) captured almost all of the nutrients in animal excrement and recycled them into new components for soil. In this way, the nutrients were endlessly recycled within the soil ecosystem and largely kept out of surface water. As a result, what we call "pure water" is low in nutrients, particularly the major nutrients nitrogen and phosphorus. Because these conditions have existed for a very long time, life in lakes, rivers, and oceans is accustomed to the relative absence of these nutrients. Over the past couple of billion years, life has flourished in this low-nutrient environment, growing complex and interdependent in the process -- an aquatic condition we call "clean" and "healthy." When a body of water is suddenly inundated with nutrients -- especially nitrogen and phosphorus -- things change drastically. One or a few organisms flourish and begin to crowd out the others. We can all recall seeing a body of water that is pea-soup green from overgrowth of algae. Such a water body is clearly sick, choked, its diversity vastly diminished. Today, much of the surface water of the planet is in a state of ill health because of misplaced nutrients. And a main contributing culprit is misplaced human excreta. Long ago, human civilizations split into two camps regarding the management of excreta. Many Asian societies recognized the nutrient value of "night soil" (as it became known). For several thousand years, and up until very recently, Asian agriculture flourished by recycling human wastes into crop land. The opposing camp, particularly in Europe, had ambiguous feelings about human waste -- was it valuable fertilizer or was it a nasty and embarrassing problem to get rid of? most euIn Europe, a pattern evolved: The first stage was urinating and defecating on the ground near dwellings. As population density increased, this became intolerable and the community pit evolved. For privacy, this evolved into the pit privy or "outhouse" -- a privacy structure atop a hole in the ground. Despite what many people may think, the pit privy is not environmentally sound -- it deprives the soil of the nutrients in excrement, and by concentrating wastes it promotes pollution of groundwater by those same nutrients. Before the advent of piped water in the late 18th century, European towns stored excreta in cesspools (lined pits with some drainage of liquids) or in vault privies (tight tanks without any drainage). The "night soil" was removed by "scavengers" and was either taken to farms, or dumped into pits in the ground or into rivers. In general, Europeans never developed a clear and consistent perception of the nutrient value of excrement, as Asians had done. In ancient Rome, the wealthy elite had indoor toilets and running water to remove excrement via sewers. Later, European cities developed crude sewer systems -- usually open gutters but sometimes covered trenches along the center or sides of streets -- though they had no running water until the 18th or even 19th centuries. The putrefying matter in these stagnant ditches did not move until it rained -- thus the name "storm sewers" -- and many cities prohibited the dumping of human wastes into such sewers. With the advent of piped water, things changed dramatically. In this country, the first waterworks was installed in Philadelphia in 1802 and by 1860 136 cities were enjoying piped water systems. By 1880, the number was up to 598. With piped water, per-capita water use increased at least 10-fold, from 3-5 gallons per person per day to 30-50 gallons per person per day or even more. Water piped into homes had to be piped out again. This caused cesspools to overflow, thus increasing the problems of odors and of water-borne diseases. To solve these problems, cesspools were connected to the city's crude sewer systems which ran along the streets. The result was epidemics of cholera. In Paris in 1832, 20,000 people died of cholera. Around the world, the combination of piped water and open sewers has consistently led to outbreaks of cholera. To solve this problem, engineers designed closed sewer systems, pipes using water as the vehicle for carrying away excrement. This solution engendered a debate among engineers: some wanted to return sewage to agricultural land, others argued that "water purifies itself" and wanted to pipe sewage straight into lakes, rivers, and oceans. By 1910, the debate was over and sewage was being dumped into water bodies on a grand scale. In the cities, cholera epidemics abated. However, cities drawing their drinking water downstream from sewage discharges began having outbreaks of typhoid. This engendered another debate: whether to treat sewage before dumping it into water bodies used for drinking, or whether to filter drinking water. Public health officials favored treating sewage before dumping it; sanitary engineers favored dumping sewage raw and filtering water before drinking. The engineers prevailed. As cities began to filter and disinfect their drinking water, typhoid abated. Throughout the 20th century, the U.S. and Europe industrialized rapidly. Industry developed a huge demand for low-cost waste disposal, and sewers were the cheapest place to dump because the public was paying. As the pressure for greater waste disposal capacity increased, industrialized nations allocated vast sums of money to construct centralized sewer systems to serve the combined needs of homes and factories. As a result, the nutrients in excrement became mixed with industrial wastes, many of them toxic. So by the 1950s, essentially every body of water receiving piped wastes was badly polluted with a combination of excessive nutrients and toxicants. This led to a demand to treat wastes before dumping them into water. Thus began the "treatment" phase of the "get rid of it" approach to human waste. As centralized sewer systems evolved, first came "primary treatment." This consists of mechanically screening out the dead cats and other "floatables." All other nutrients and toxic chemicals remain in the waste water that is discharged to a river or ocean. Next came "secondary treatment" which speeds up the biological decomposition of wastes by forcing oxygen into them, by promoting bacterial growth, and by other means. This is an energy-intensive process and therefore expensive. Unfortunately, it, too, leaves many of the nutrients and toxic chemicals in the discharge water. [The Congressional Research Service recently estimated that the federal government spent $69.5 billion on centralized sewage treatment plants, 1973-1999. Despite this huge expenditure, the Congressional Research Service said in 1999, "States report that municipal discharges are the second leading source of water quality impairment in all of the nation's waters (rivers and streams, lakes, and estuaries and coastal waters). Pollutants associated with municipal discharges include nutrients..., bacteria and other pathogens, as well as metals and toxic chemicals from industrial and commercial activities and households."[2]] To the extent that primary and secondary treatment are successful, they move nutrients and toxicants (combined) into a new form: sludge. Sludge is the de-watered, sticky black "cake" created in large quantities by modern sewage treatment plants. Sludge contains everything that can go down the drains in homes and industries and which a treatment plant is able to get back out. In the FEDERAL REGISTER November 9, 1990, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency describes sludge this way: "The chemical composition and biological constituents of the sludge depend upon the composition of the wastewater entering the treatment facilities and the subsequent treatment processes. Typically, these constituents may include volatiles, organic solids, nutrients, disease-causing pathogenic organisms (e.g., bacteria, viruses, etc.), heavy metals and inorganic ions, and toxic organic chemicals from industrial wastes, household chemicals, and pesticides." Industry is currently using 70,000 different chemicals in commercial quantities; any of these may appear in sludge. About 1000 new chemicals come into commercial use each year, so any of these, too, may appear in sludge. A description of the toxicants that may be found in sludge would fill several books. The U.S. General Accounting Office has reported -- not surprisingly -- that municipal sludge contains radioactive wastes (from both medical and military sources).[3] With hundreds of sewage treatment plants producing toxic sludge in mountainous quantities, the next question was, what in the world to do with it? For many years, coastal cities dumped sewage sludge into the oceans, where it created large "dead zones" that could not support marine life. Other communities dumped their sludge into landfills, where it could pollute their groundwater. Still others incinerated their sludge, thus creating serious air pollution problems, then landfilled the remaining ash or simply heaped the ash on the ground for the wind to disperse. In 1988 Congress outlawed the ocean dumping of sewage sludge. At this point, many communities faced a real waste crisis. There was no safe (or even sensible) place to put the mountains of toxic sludge that are generated every day by centralized sewage treatment systems. It was at this point in history that U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) -- feeling tremendous pressure to "solve" the sludge disposal problem -- discovered that sewage sludge is really "night soil" -- the nutrient-rich product that has fertilized crops in Asia for several thousand years. EPA decided that the expedient thing to do with sewage sludge was to plow it into the land. Shortly after 1992, when the ban on ocean dumping went into effect, EPA renamed toxic sludge "beneficial biosolids," and began aggressively campaigning to sell it to the American people as fertilizer. (See REHW #561.) [To be continued] ========== [1] Abby A. Rockefeller, "Civilization and Sludge: Notes on the History of the Management of Human Excreta," CURRENT WORLD LEADERS Vol. 39, No. 6 (December 1996), pgs. 99-113. Ms. Rockefeller is president of the ReSource Institute for Low Entropy Systems, 179 Boylston St., Boston, MA 02130; telephone (617) 524-7258. [2] U.S. General Accounting Office, NUCLEAR REGULATION; ACTION NEEDED TO CONTROL RADIOACTIVE CONTAMINATION AT SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANTS [GAO/RCED-94-133 (Washington, D.C.: U.S. General Accounting Office, May 1994). [3] Claudia Copeland, WASTEWATER TREATMENT: OVERVIEW AND BACKGROUND [98-323 ENR] (Washington, D.C.: Congressional Research service, January 20, 1999). Available at: http://- www.cnie.org/nle/h2o-29.html . Descriptor terms: human waste; history; histories; wastewater treatment; potws; abby a. rockefeller; resource institute; sewage sludge; ################################################################ NOTICE Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge even though it costs our organization considerable time and money to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do not send credit card information via E-mail. For further information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F. by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944. --Peter Montague, Editor ################################################################ ======================== David Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 13:43:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13716 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:43:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA22926; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:30:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22708 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:29:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AC03A9@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:32:22 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 2 Apr 99 13:32:17 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 2 Apr 99 13:32:03 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:31:56 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: OFF: Wheat Breeding Partnerships on the Horizon Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37050279.43BDFA5@digisys.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <17CBAAD7128@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 527 >BOZEMAN -- It's only a matter of time before Montana State >University and corporations work together to breed new wheats with >characteristics only dreamed of before. Ugh! Yeah, only in our nightmares! Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 15:36:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16044 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:36:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05487; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:25:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05335 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:24:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp200.cy-net.net [208.21.195.9]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23890 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:27:27 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7D10.7554E800@FLYLO>; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:55:25 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7D10.7554E800@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: surprise cows Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:54:43 -0600 Encoding: 18 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 528 I don't have cows. Haven't had a herd in 2 1/2 years. But with all the talk about cows and their 'etheric energy' not to mention the valuable manure spreaders, I was regretting having sold them all. So, I had to wonder when I came home today to find about 65 grown cows, calves, the assorted tag-along bulls, all standing IN EXACTLY THE SPOT where I intend to clear off for a hay crop this year. Oh, if their owner doesn't get out and patch the holey fence before I mow and find the 'leak', I'll do it, but I'm going to let them donate some of their ethericness to my soil for awhile first. That bit of joy counteracted the fact that the parts store can't seem to locate my backordered fuel line, and they sold me the wrong filter for my tractor. (major Spring time sigh here). Parts men: They see a woman at their counter and panic. "Just sell her something and get her out of here." Me; standing there telling them that it was not going to fit, and they; insisting that it was the right part for the job. Oh well, still too much to do to sit and gripe long about it. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Apr 3 04:27:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA26585 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:27:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA21327; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:15:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA21247 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:12:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([203.96.104.44]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990403091718.CFM5703635.mta2-rme@default> for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:17:18 +1200 Message-ID: <3705DCED.538D@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 21:18:37 +1200 From: Rambler Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study ? whats happehing? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 529 Dear Study circle What has happened to our studing. Hav'nt seen any discussion for alooooooong time. my notes says that we are up to L3.2 page 56 and there is still 220 pages to go. Hugh LOvel said that Peter Procter said that we have only 10 years left to teach tthe rest of the world about Biodynamics? Time to mve on Me thinks> It would be nice to finish this study before the new millenium The last study posts were Feb 28 Mar 1. Cheers Tony Robinson Rambler Flowers NewZealand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Apr 3 10:32:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29112 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:32:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA01867; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01785 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.17.149]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:20:31 +0100 Message-ID: <370631B8.7E88@cwcom.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:20:24 +0100 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Re: surprise cows and auto parts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 530 Martha - just to reassure you, the attitude and inefficiency of parts salesmen seems to be universal: either it's gender-independent or their lack of attention to detail extends to not noticing my full beard. Microfiche or computer diagrams don't seem to have improved things, either. As to surprise cows, I reckon deep hoofprints in my lawn rather outweigh any ethericity that they bring with them (two dozen cows stomping around for a couple of hours leave an awful lot of holes !). Tony N-S. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 3 12:58:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00310 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:57:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19114 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:51:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA19987; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:50:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19932 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:49:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from digisys.net (modem14.digisys.net [205.138.110.63]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26375; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:49:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37065561.9A0FD7A0@digisys.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 10:52:33 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jacqui Robertson - Chaplaincy CC: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , CSA-L Subject: OFF: Re: health farms information References: <21681CD5813@dundee-dj.dundee.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 531 Hello Fiona, I'm not in a position to answer all your questions so am posting your request to a couple of lists in the hope that several people will provide information. Regards, Pat Hironimus Jacqui Robertson - Chaplaincy wrote: > hello, my name is Fiona, my Mum contacted you a short while ago with > regard to a project I am undertaking in Spain. > > We have to start up a business from scratch and create a full > business plan for it. We chose to do a Health Farm due to the lack > of them in Spain. I would be grateful if you could answer the > following questions for me. I appreciate that some will be difficult > or impossible for you to answer, but any assistance and information > would be a great help. If you can think of anything over and above > these questions that should be taken into account for my business > plan, please do not hesitate to add it on. > > 1. What types of insurance policies do you need? > > 2. are there contracts between the client and the health farm, and > what do these consist of. (a sample copy would be of great help). > > 3. Should the Trades Description Act play a large role. > > 4. What types and how many staff would be required to run a small > Health Farm. > > 5. How do you work out ratio of staff to prospective clients. > > 6.What types of advertising should be considered. > > 7. Who are your target customers. > > 8. Is the equipment you use bought or leased, and do you use several > suppliers or use one main one. > > 9. Annual expenditure on equipment, or if possible individual prices > of equipment. > > 10. Do you use any special offers to attract clients? How often? > What type? and what is the most popular? > > 11. With regard to salaries, what are the average salaries of > different staff members. > > 12. Are their individual programmes for clients and how do you assess > their individual needs? > > 13. Are medical certificates required for clients previous to them > booking with you. > > 14. Is their a dress code for staff and clients. > > 15. What security measures are taken for client belongings? e.g. > safes etc, safe per client or one big safe for all etc. > > 16. Are their confidentiality clauses, for example if a famous person > is staying. > > 17. Are their guarantees for customers, what if they don't like the > results. > > 18. Is their any type of entertainment put on for the customers. > > 19. What are the average running costs (we have to do the accounts, > profit and loss etc and have no idea what this would be) > > 20. What are the legal requirements? > > Thank you for your help with this project it is much appreciated. > > I leave for Spsin on the 14 April 1999, but my Mum will forward on > any information you give. > > Hope to hear from you soon and have a happy Easter. > > Fiona Robertson From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Apr 3 12:59:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00350 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11307; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:47:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11171 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:46:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem14.digisys.net [205.138.110.63]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26375; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:49:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37065561.9A0FD7A0@digisys.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 10:52:33 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jacqui Robertson - Chaplaincy CC: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , CSA-L Subject: OFF: Re: health farms information References: <21681CD5813@dundee-dj.dundee.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 532 Hello Fiona, I'm not in a position to answer all your questions so am posting your request to a couple of lists in the hope that several people will provide information. Regards, Pat Hironimus Jacqui Robertson - Chaplaincy wrote: > hello, my name is Fiona, my Mum contacted you a short while ago with > regard to a project I am undertaking in Spain. > > We have to start up a business from scratch and create a full > business plan for it. We chose to do a Health Farm due to the lack > of them in Spain. I would be grateful if you could answer the > following questions for me. I appreciate that some will be difficult > or impossible for you to answer, but any assistance and information > would be a great help. If you can think of anything over and above > these questions that should be taken into account for my business > plan, please do not hesitate to add it on. > > 1. What types of insurance policies do you need? > > 2. are there contracts between the client and the health farm, and > what do these consist of. (a sample copy would be of great help). > > 3. Should the Trades Description Act play a large role. > > 4. What types and how many staff would be required to run a small > Health Farm. > > 5. How do you work out ratio of staff to prospective clients. > > 6.What types of advertising should be considered. > > 7. Who are your target customers. > > 8. Is the equipment you use bought or leased, and do you use several > suppliers or use one main one. > > 9. Annual expenditure on equipment, or if possible individual prices > of equipment. > > 10. Do you use any special offers to attract clients? How often? > What type? and what is the most popular? > > 11. With regard to salaries, what are the average salaries of > different staff members. > > 12. Are their individual programmes for clients and how do you assess > their individual needs? > > 13. Are medical certificates required for clients previous to them > booking with you. > > 14. Is their a dress code for staff and clients. > > 15. What security measures are taken for client belongings? e.g. > safes etc, safe per client or one big safe for all etc. > > 16. Are their confidentiality clauses, for example if a famous person > is staying. > > 17. Are their guarantees for customers, what if they don't like the > results. > > 18. Is their any type of entertainment put on for the customers. > > 19. What are the average running costs (we have to do the accounts, > profit and loss etc and have no idea what this would be) > > 20. What are the legal requirements? > > Thank you for your help with this project it is much appreciated. > > I leave for Spsin on the 14 April 1999, but my Mum will forward on > any information you give. > > Hope to hear from you soon and have a happy Easter. > > Fiona Robertson From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Apr 3 17:04:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA03475 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:04:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA28454; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:51:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28405 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:50:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem50.digisys.net [205.138.110.99]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22880 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:54:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37068ED0.D10A8B9B@digisys.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 14:57:37 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: OFF: Easter Message Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 533 Happy Easter Everyone ... Keep your hands dirty and your heart happy. Pat Hironimus From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Apr 4 12:27:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16100 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA22115; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21872 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.9]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:17:38 -0400 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:15:01 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: April 04, 1999 - April 10, 1999 Message-ID: <2A1E68954F3417CB8525674900593D24.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id MAA21874 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 534 Calendar of the Soul [April 04, 1999 - April 10, 1999] Easter (April 7-13) SPRING When out of world-wide spaces The sun speaks to the human mind, And gladness from the depths of soul Becomes, in seeing, one with light, Then rising from the sheath of self, Thoughts soar to distances of space And dimly bind The human being to the spirit's life. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Wenn aus den Weltenweiten Die Sonne spricht zum Menschensinn Und Freude aus den Seelentiefen Dem Licht sich eint im Schauen, Dann ziehen aus der Selbstheit Hülle Gedanken in die Raumesfernen Und binden dumpf Des Menschen Wesen an des Geistes Sein. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+01 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Apr 4 17:55:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18823 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14580; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f205.hotmail.com [209.185.130.115]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14389 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 91992 invoked by uid 0); 4 Apr 1999 21:45:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990404214512.91991.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.74.2.111 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 04 Apr 1999 14:45:11 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.74.2.111] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: cow horns Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:45:11 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 535 Thanks a bunch, I will try to get a couple of cow horns. You are in Blairsville? Small world, my parents live in Hiawassee. I'm in Tennessee and don't get to see them much. It is a beautiful area there, in the GA mountains. Thanks again Lynnaea >From: Hugh Lovel >Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: Re: cow horns >Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:25:06 -0400 > >>Does anyone know where I can get some cow horns? I really don't want to >>get them from a slaughterhouse if I can find a better source. I almost >>had a couple, a neighbors bull died of natural causes, but he decided he >>wanted the skull and horns for a decoration. >> >>Lynnaea >> >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >Bull horns wouldn't do. They aren't nearly as heavy and thus as resonant as >cows' horns. > >You may obtain these from the Josephine Porter Institute of Applied >Biodynamics (JPI) P. O. Box 133, Woolwine, VA 24185, 540 930 2463. > >Best > >Hugh Lovel >Blairsville, Georgia > >"No man can hurt another man without condemning himself to greater hurt." >--Walter Russell > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Apr 5 13:53:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07460 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11301; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f73.hotmail.com [209.185.131.136]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA10935 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 76903 invoked by uid 0); 5 Apr 1999 17:41:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990405174150.76902.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.230.25.45 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Apr 1999 10:41:49 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.230.25.45] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Spirituality and Ag Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:41:49 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 536 Thanks Anita for posting this link. I found the poem he wrote on love to be very uplifting. Blessings Lynnaea >From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" . Anyway, for some more info on this, please check >out the website put up by Patrick Madden (a former econ prof who >worked at Penn State for 20 years), who is also one of the main >people of this group: > >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/patrickmadden/ > >Hope you enjoy, >Anita > > >Anita Graf >313-F Conner Hall >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >University of Georgia >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >(706) 542-1915 phone >(706) 542-0739 fax >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Apr 5 14:11:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA07908 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14132; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13797 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AD5D3E@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:00:19 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 5 Apr 99 14:00:13 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 5 Apr 99 13:59:51 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:59:45 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Spirituality and Ag Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990405174150.76902.qmail@hotmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1C433F86A80@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 537 Thanks Anita for posting this link. I found the poem he wrote on love to be very uplifting. Blessings Lynnaea I'm so glad you liked it Lynnaea. For anyone interested in the Declaration of Interdependence I mentioned earlier, check at the following web page: http://www.uwex.edu/ces/cced/staffgc.html Sincerely, Anita >From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" . Anyway, for some more info on this, please check >out the website put up by Patrick Madden (a former econ prof who >worked at Penn State for 20 years), who is also one of the main >people of this group: > >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/patrickmadden/ > >Hope you enjoy, >Anita > > >Anita Graf >313-F Conner Hall >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >University of Georgia >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >(706) 542-1915 phone >(706) 542-0739 fax >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Apr 5 14:20:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08082 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA15774; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f99.hotmail.com [209.185.131.162]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA15233 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 39850 invoked by uid 0); 5 Apr 1999 18:08:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19990405180806.39849.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.230.25.27 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Apr 1999 11:08:06 PDT X-Originating-IP: [205.230.25.27] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study ? whats happehing? Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:08:06 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 538 Hmmm, I joined after the last posting on the study. Can anyone fill me in on what book it is you are studying? I would like to learn, does anyone have some of the old posts? Lynnaea >From: Rambler >Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: Study ? whats happehing? >Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 21:18:37 +1200 > >Dear Study circle What has happened to our studing. Hav'nt seen any >discussion for alooooooong time. my notes says that we are up to L3.2 >page 56 and there is still 220 pages to go. >Hugh LOvel said that Peter Procter said that we have only 10 years left >to teach tthe rest of the world about Biodynamics? >Time to mve on Me thinks> It would be nice to finish this study before >the new millenium >The last study posts were Feb 28 Mar 1. >Cheers >Tony Robinson >Rambler Flowers >NewZealand > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 5 14:35:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08367 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA15417 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11852; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:26:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11724 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:25:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from digisys.net (modem202.digisys.net [205.218.31.75]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA05830; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:25:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <370900FB.2298BB69@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:29:15 -0600 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , CSA-L Subject: OFF:Organically Grown Hops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 539 A few months back someone was looking for hops for the micro-brewing industry. I just received a call regarding a grower of organically grown (non-certified) hops. If you are interested please contact the grower: Tim Adair 1134 1st Ave. West Kalispell, MT 59901 E-mail: adair@digisys.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Apr 5 14:36:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08377 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA18658; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18292 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from digisys.net (modem202.digisys.net [205.218.31.75]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA05830; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:25:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <370900FB.2298BB69@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:29:15 -0600 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , CSA-L Subject: OFF:Organically Grown Hops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 540 A few months back someone was looking for hops for the micro-brewing industry. I just received a call regarding a grower of organically grown (non-certified) hops. If you are interested please contact the grower: Tim Adair 1134 1st Ave. West Kalispell, MT 59901 E-mail: adair@digisys.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Apr 5 15:39:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09752 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA29037; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news1.infoave.net (news1.InfoAve.Net [165.166.15.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA28636 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by news1.infoave.net; id AA14922; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:27:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:27:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990405152411.084ff5d6@swva.net> X-Sender: mgardner@swva.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: malcolm ian gardner Subject: Dandelion picking Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 541 Dear Friends, Since the dandelion season is already upon us, the following is a preview from the upcoming newsletter of the Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Bio-Dynamics. As you may know, JPI is a non-profit institution that manufactures large quantities of preps for biodynamic practitioners in the U.S. and beyond. For this we require large quantities of dandelion blossoms, which are not available commercially. Therefore, to supplement what we can harvest on our own, we depend on volunteer pickers around the country. Abigail Porter (daughter of the late Josephine Porter, who carried the preparation-making responsibility in North America for many decades) is one of our most experienced dandelion pickers and she shares some of her experience in this article. (Note that we require fully dried blossoms and that 4 pounds fresh equals about 1 pound dry.) Thank you. Malcolm Ian Gardner JPI, P.O. Box 133, Woolwine, VA 24185 (ph/fax: 540-930-2463). EFFICIENT DANDELION PICKING or How to Pick When Your Back Hurts by Abigail Porter I have always liked picking dandelions, enjoying the sights, sounds, and smells and accomplishing an important task at the same time. I appreciated it even more when I left the farm and my jewelry work took me inside for most of the day. It was good to be outside in the warm sun. I enjoyed the colors, the cool breeze caressing my skin, and the fragrance of approaching summer. Several years ago, a lower back injury made picking dandelions a painful experience. Two hours of picking left me incapacitated for three days. I realized if I was going to pick at all, I would have to find a better way to pick, a faster way with less bending over. How could I stay relatively pain-free by picking only 15-20 at a time (45 minutes was the outer tolerance limit), yet pick the same quantity of flowers as in earlier years? I discovered three primary keys to efficient, pain-free picking: (1) learn to "see" only the appropriate blossoms, (2) pick on consecutive days, (3) pick late in the morning. While observing a friend who helped me pick, I noticed that it took her much longer to decide which blossoms to pick than to actually pick them. So the first key is to learn to "see" only the appropriate blossoms so one is not distracted by unsuitable flowers. To do this one must first study the differences between flowers in various stages of openness. With a practice of touching and looking, a blossom's successive growth stages become readily apparent. By placing the index finger and middle finger under the blossom head (my preferred way of picking), the thumb is free to brush across the top of the flower to feel its texture. On the first day of opening there is a tight, relatively hard button of darker colored petals in the blossom's center (a bullseye). The flower is somewhat flat. On the second day the button is softer, paler in color, much less distinctly formed. The blossom is more open with a convex surface. On the third day the color is more uniform, all the petals are very soft, and the blossom shape is more like an umbrella. Once the look and feel of first-day blossoms are memorized, one is drawn only to them, as iron to a magnet. Now it is easy to quickly select only the perfect flowers for picking. I pick only the first-day flowers as they are the easiest to see and usually dry well. Second day or older flowers may turn to unuseable gray fluff as they dry. First day flowers that open late in the afternoon will frequently have many first-day characteristics on their second day. These qualify as first-day blossoms if the button is still distinct. Their second day is their first morning in the sun. Efficient dandelion picking requires picking on consecutive days. Picking stimulates more buds to open more quickly. On the first day blossoms may be few and far between. Lots of bending (ouch!) with little to show for the effort. The second day is more productive. By the third or fourth day of picking, I am usually rewarded with an abundance of beautiful, pickable blossoms. There are so many perfect blossoms that I progress on hands and knees from patch to patch, picking with all fingers, quickly and easily filling both hands. If you are unable to schedule consecutive morning picking, then at least on days one and two, pick and discard old blossoms in the afternoon or whenever time allows. These blossoms can fertilize the ground or your compost pile. The morning of the third day will be great picking. For example, you might plan to pick most flowers on a Saturday because it is a flower day or because that is when you will have time. Start the mini-picks on Thursday even if only for ten or fifteen minutes. That way, Saturday's picking will be so much more enjoyable and rewarding. Picking late in the morning decreases required work time. I discovered if I started to pick early (9 am), I would have to pick the same area two or three times because more blossoms opened as the day's light and warmth progressed. Since I can only pick comfortably for about thirty minutes, I wait until 10:30 to 11:00 to start. This way, I can pick twice as many flowers in the same length of time, with less bending over, and still get most of the flowers that have opened before noon. I start the day's picking in areas that have been sunny the longest, scheduling shaded areas for last as their flowers will be slower to open. Efficient dandelion picking can be valuable even if your back doesn't hurt. The experience is made more enjoyable and perhaps even possible if your time is very limited. These observations were made in northeast Pennsylvania in a cool spring. The farm was located in a valley, approx. 500 ft. above sea level, with frequent nighttime, heavy fog and dew lasting late into morning. Picking times might be different in a hot, dry climate, different altitude or weather conditions. Additional Notes ---I like to wait until dew is off before I pick because the flowers dry better. ---Containers: I prefer picking into a paper bag with the top edge rolled down. ---We dried the flowers by spreading them on newspaper laid on the floor of a hot attic. However, a better support for the flowers is fiberglass screening raised at least several inches from the floor, allowing more thorough air flow. ---Even the best picked dandelions can turn to a gray and unuseable fluff if not properly dried. Spreading them out to dry immediately after picking gives best results. Blossom color and likely its quality also are better if drying occurs quickly. One summer, just as the blossoms were almost dry, it rained and the blossoms absorbed enough moisture from the air to become rubbery again. This sequence repeated itself several times. During that time I forgot to check blossom status, and when I finally did so they had turned to fluff. ---We have several varieties of dandelions. The tall ones, 1 - 2 ft. tall, are easiest to pick. But, even the shorter ones will grow tall in rich, moist, uncompacted soil. Scatter seeds where you want to pick. ---After we sold the animals on the farm, the dandelion population in the pastured fields decreased greatly, while the neighbors' lawns had many dandelions even without any cows or goats. The decrease on our land occurred because the grass and weeds were no longer being mowed or grazed and thus grew tall enough to crowd and shade out the dandelions. Dandelions like sun. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Apr 5 18:21:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13754 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:21:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA21253; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07910 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp55.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.155]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA17976 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:28:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <017501be7fa3$48291000$754b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: OFF: Mega Hog Farm - Rosebud Reservation Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:31:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 542 Dear Friends, The URL for the article below came across SANET today. Our community successfully foiled an attempt by the Belgium "family" operation, Seghers, to locate a mega-hog farm here in Marshall Twp., SW Wisconsin, so this issue is close to my heart. I know it can be stopped... I cannot think of a better place to apply pressure than in the protection of sacred ground. Thanks, Julie "The Earth is not dying - it is being killed. And the people who are killing it have names and addresses." - U. Utah Phillips Despite Stink, Hog Farm Proceeds on Tribal Land By William Claiborne Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, April 4, 1999; Page A03 What eventually will become the third-largest hog farm in the world is rising on tribal trust land near a remote Indian reservation in South Dakota in spite of strong opposition by the federal government, environmentalists, animal rights activists and a coalition of tribal members and other local residents. Work is underway on cavernous feeding barns for the $105 million facility, which is designed to house 859,000 hogs near the Rosebud Sioux Reservation 150 miles southeast of Rapid City. The work resumed last month after a federal judge accused the federal government's top Indian official of abusing his discretionary powers and acting in an "arbitrary and capricious" manner when he ordered work stopped on environmental grounds. Kevin Gover, assistant interior secretary for Indian affairs, may have engaged in "affirmative misconduct" when he unilaterally voided a lease between Rosebud tribal leaders and a Nebraska-based pork company for the hog operation, said U.S. District Judge Charles Kornmann of Pierre, S.D. The pork company, Sun Prairie, and Rosebud tribal council members say the facility will bring more than 200 jobs to the reservation, which has an 85 percent unemployment rate and is one of the poorest in the nation. By situating the farm on tribal land beyond state jurisdiction, Sun Prairie and its parent company, Bell Farms of Wahpeton, N.D., circumvented a law approved by South Dakota voters last year that prohibits corporate farming ventures, a gesture toward preservation of the family farm. In its opinion, the court said that if the Bureau of Indian Affairs was allowed to unilaterally block such business arrangements, lenders would be loath to invest in economic development projects in Indian country because of a lack of certainty in the deals. As a result, tribes would suffer, he said. "What the BIA is attempting to do here causes the court to recall promises [of tribal sovereignty] made years ago by the same federal agency to Native Americans," Kornmann said. On March 2, the judge granted a preliminary injunction barring the Interior Department and other hog farm opponents from interfering with the project and, in a scathing attack on Gover's decision, said the BIA head's motivations for canceling the lease "remain uncertain at this time." Opponents of the farm are appealing Kornmann's decision, but in the meantime, structural work on feeding barns is proceeding at a brisk pace and Sun Prairie expects to begin trucking in hogs soon. Kornmann said he was particularly angered because Gover voided the lease just one day after Justice Department lawyers filed a legal brief arguing that the environmental assessment was in compliance with federal environmental and historic preservation laws. The judge cited the BIA turnaround as proof of Gover's arbitrary and capricious action. Gover said he was aware of what the Justice Department attorneys were arguing, but he contended that the case was still in a preliminary stage and that "upon further reflection I concluded that the environmental assessment was inadequate." Gover said it was important to establish the environmental impact of the entire hog-producing operation and not just the first phase, which consists of three finishing sites used to fatten pigs for market. Each site will have 24 buildings housing 48,000 pigs. There will be 13 sites in all, including facilities where sows will be bred and give birth, but Kornmann's order affects only the first phase. "We knew there was going to be a problem with the [environmental assessment] and that it would probably lose, so we thought it was the better part of valor to withdraw and cancel the lease," Gover said. "Lord knows, with 85 percent unemployment on that reservation, the last thing we wanted to see happen was for the court to stop the project." Environmentalists and some tribe members contend that the 1,200-acre hog farm will produce as much effluent as a city of 3 million people, resulting in not only the possible contamination of underground aquifers but serious air pollution from ammonia and methane gas rising from evaporation ponds into which pig excrement will be pumped. In addition, the effects on wildlife in the area, including the largest concentration of prairie dogs in the United States, have not been adequately studied, according to critics. Some tribal members contend that a historic Indian trail, ancient Sioux grave sites and other cultural artifacts would be disturbed by the hog operation. "Our land will be destroyed. Our air will be polluted. Our way of life will be ruined," said Oleata Mednansky, a member of the Rosebud Sioux tribe and co-chairman of the opposition group, Concerned Rosebud Area Citizens. "Economic development is something we need, but not the kind that will destroy our land, air, water, wildlife and historical artifacts." Mednansky said the hog factory is being built on an ancient Sioux trail on which Chief Sitting Bull is said to have regularly traveled. "My grandmother was born on that trail, and we have always considered it to be sacred," she said. "This project was approved so hurriedly that our people never got a chance to express their views." Several protest demonstrations have been held, including one in which actor James Cromwell, an animal rights activist who starred in the movie "Babe," complained that the farm will wreak environmental havoc in the area. However, Debra Thomas, who as the Denver-based team leader of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's office of partnerships and regulatory assistance studied the potential environmental impact, said if Sun Prairie constructs and operates the hog factory according to the specifications it has submitted, "it would be unlikely there would be any adverse environmental impact on ground and surface water." She said the EPA is still evaluating the potential for air pollution. © Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Apr 5 19:42:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15400 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA02663; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02491 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.190.163.144] (pm3shep3-163-144.intrepid.net [209.190.163.144]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20199; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:31:19 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:22:02 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: AD HOC CENSORSHIP re: Food History Documentary Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 543 Thought folks might find this interesting...........................Marla >Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:43:04 -0900 (PDT) >From: warren belasco >Subject: Food History Documentary >Sender: owner-dsfs@lists.umbc.edu >X-Sender: belasco@umbc2.umbc.edu >To: dsfs@lists.umbc.edu >Reply-to: dsfs@lists.umbc.edu > > > >Hollywood actor/activist Alec Baldwin needs our help. In the April >5 issue of The Nation (devoted to politics in Hollywood), Baldwin >is asked whether ongoing corporate takeovers and mergers make it >harder to make politically controversial films. His answer (p.20): > > > >You see the consequences of the vertical integration of the >entertainment companies. I have been going to every major >outlet--the Discovery Channel, A&E, the History Channel, every PBS >outlet in the major markets, NET, KCET, KQED in San Francisco, >WGBH in Boston--looking for financing to help me produce a >documentary titled "The History of Food," about the political and >economic determinants of what we eat in this country. And every >single person I talk to who has an IQ over 100 is overwhelmingly >intrigued by the idea of this show. But all these outlets, they're >like, "Oh, God! We can't do that, because of that Oprah Winfrey >beef lawsuit!" I mean, this is what I'm getting from The History >Channel. They just say, "We'll call you." And I never hear from them. > >***** > >Any suggestions for Mr. Baldwin? I'm sure you can write him c/o of >The Nation (letters@TheNation.com). Please cc this list, too. > >Warren > > > ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Marla Rhodes Northeast Food System Partnership Information and Outreach Coordinator 617-627-5481 mrhodes1@emerald.tufts.edu Interested in sharing ideas and information about community food security and sustainable food systems in the Northeast? Sign up to the email group nefood-l. Send the message SUBSCRIBE NEFOOD-L YOUR NAME to the following address: listproc@listproc.tufts.edu Leave the subject line blank. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Apr 5 19:42:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15405 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:42:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA02723; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02525 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.190.163.144] (pm3shep3-163-144.intrepid.net [209.190.163.144]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20231 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:31:26 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:25:35 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: De Groene Weg of Holland Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 544 Hi, First of all, happy easter to all of you. My name is Jon de Ruijter, I'm a representative of De Groene Weg. De Groene Weg is a dutch organisation of biologic butschershops in Holland. Since 20 years we are specialized in production of biologic meat products. We have 22 shops and we deliver aproximately 500 health food stores and supermakets in Holland, Belgium and Germany. Tow years ago I was an apprentice on the Temple-Wilton community farm for 6 months. I also attended the weekend in Kimberton about apprenticeships (sounding the call) We are growing fast the last three years and we expand our activities more and more all over Europe. We deliver meat factories in Danmark, Italy, England and France. For Europe, we are the most professional organisation for, (exclusively) biologic meat. Right now I'm traslating our control rules in English. I would like to ask you if you could send me a copy from the quality rules for the USA. I'm sure that there are a lot of similarities in the US rules and those fron Europe. We're also interested in the developments on biodynamics in America. Is it possible that we can get a link on your homepage to ours? I think we can share a lot of information and experience that we have with others who work with biologic meat. Our internet address is: www.degroeneweg.nl My personal addres is: Jon de Ruijter Pr. Julianalaan 2b 3062 DH Rotterdam The Netherlands Tel: 011-31-10-2427717 I hope to receive the information soon, so we can increase our turnover in Europe more. If you have any question please reply to me!! Kind regards, Jon de Ruijter From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Apr 6 03:52:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA26090 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 03:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA19942; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 03:39:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA19875 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 03:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bio (kmidc67-92.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.92]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA14719 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:42:22 +1000 Message-ID: <007301be8000$e28561a0$4a431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: "BDNow list" Subject: Fw: Off : GMO ORGANIC CONTAMINATION Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:51:55 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 545 Dont know if you got this news in USA, but I thought it was important. Cheryl Kemp. -----Original Message----- From: Organic Federation of Australia Inc To: ofa@netspace.net.au Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999 12:25 pm Subject: GMO ORGANIC CONTAMINATION >Dear All, > >Email received by Dick Copeman. > >Gmo's are an obvious threat to the rapidly expanding organic industry both >here and overseas. > >Regards, > >Scott Kinnear > >************************* > > >Copyright 1999 Madison Newspapers, Inc. Wisconsin State Journal > >March 24, 1999, Wednesday, ALL EDITIONS > >Wind-Blown Genes Cut Into Organic Profits > >Rick Barrett Agribusiness reporter > >Bad news could be blowing in the wind for organic farmers and food >companies if their crops are contaminated from the airborne pollen of >genetically altered crops. In one case, a Hudson food company recently lost >$ 170,000 in sales after its organic corn chips tested positive for >genetically engineered corn. The company, Prima Terra, had shipped 80,000 >bags of chips to Holland -- only to have them fail a random "gene scan" by >government inspectors. Under European regulations, the chips could not be >sold as organic even though only one bag in the shipment might have been >contaminated. Prima Terra destroyed all of the chips rather than ship them >back to the United States. > >After the incident last December, Prima Terra didn't ship any chips for two >months until it was certain it had found the source of the contamination, >said company president Charles Walker. The source was pollen from >genetically engineered corn that blew into an organic farmer's corn field >in Texas. The corn had a patented gene inserted into it that made it >artificially resistant to bugs -- something not allowed in organic farming. >It might have come from a neighboring field or it might have come from >miles away, as corn pollen travels in the wind. ''But either way it was a >nightmare for us,'' Walker said, adding that it cut deep into company corn >chip profits for an entire year. > >------------------ > >Dick Copeman >Consumer Food Network >223 Logan Road, Buranda QLD 4102 >Australia >Ph (+61) 07 3217 3187 >Fx (+61) 07 3217 3028 > >Scott Kinnear > >Chairperson >Organic Federation of Australia >C/- 452 Lygon St >East Brunswick >Victoria 3057 >Australia > >Ph 61 3 9386 6600 >Fax 61 3 9384 1322 > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Apr 6 10:26:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02064 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:26:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14332; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13911 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfenet.com (sea-pm3-2-p124.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.124]) by wolfenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20582 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <370A1655.1A7EA73B@wolfenet.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 07:12:38 -0700 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Good bye for now, (Going to War) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 546 Hello Folks Big change in my life requires that I secede my BD research to my partner, Jasper Koster-Nyberg, who will be taking primary responsibilities for managing our farm this spring and summer. She is a certified Environmental Horticulturist and is capable of offering much good contribution to the BDnow list. Even so, she will likely just lurk for a while! Y2K is getting TOP PRIORITY in the world's governments and mega-corporations who are truly on a "war-footing" to combat this problem. They are spending literally billions and perhaps trillions of $ or yen, or marks, or whatever. The majority of the small business community (that includes farms), approximately 23,000,000 companies in the US alone, have not even started to consider this problem and they are the backbone of our economy and community. I am taking a full-time position as a director of Internet marketing for an international firm here in Seattle. They have made me an offer I cannot refuse and in the spirit of preparing both my family and the community for the coming Y2K challenge, I will be heading up the marketing of the companies software product, called "Trimaran 2000" to the small business community. This is the best Y2K project management in-a-box product of its kind that I have found. For the sake of our prosperity in the 21st Century, please do your best to make sure you, your neighbors, business partners, and customers, are ready for Y2K. To learn more about Trimaran 2000 and the Y2K small business challenge, go to: http://www.systemicsolutions.com. Trimaran 2000 is the only "product" ever endorsed by the globally renowned Y2K proponent Mr. Peter de Jager. http://www.year2000.com. I will miss you all and hope to see you at a NW Biodynamic Conference in Seattle in winter '99/'2000~!! Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm CSA Vashon, WA. USA (206)567-4548 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Apr 6 11:42:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04831 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA25771; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25632 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:29:45 -0400 (EDT) From: HILAWRIGHT@aol.com Received: from HILAWRIGHT@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.4) id hRDPa27103 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:29:07 EDT Subject: bad news for French cheese lovers To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_c6d96ec1.243b8243_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 176 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 547 --part1_c6d96ec1.243b8243_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought you may be interested in this from the UK Guardian Hilary Wright ------------------------ French cheesed off with EU ruling =20 Jon Henley in Paris on the directive causing a stink =20 Monday April 5, 1999 The Guardian =20 The first to fall foul of the new regulations was a particularly smelly =E9poisses from Burgundy. Then came a rich and runny maroilles from Aisne, and a notably creamy saint-f=E9licien from the Is=E8re region. Finally, thi= s weekend, it was a crusty camembert from Calvados country. =20 Since the beginning of the year, when the French government belatedly implemented a 1992 European Union directive on unpasteurised dairy produce, four of the country's finest cheeses have been forcibly removed from sale - to the mounting fury of a dairy industry that once boasted nearly as many types of cheese as there are days in the year. =20 'Don't get me wrong, we're all for safety, but the only word for this is psychosis,' said Luc Morlon of the firm Lactelis, whose Lepetit camembert was the latest cheese to be recalled, amid massive publicity, after checks at a shop revealed minute traces of listeria. 'The Lepetit brand has existed for 130 years without a single problem,' Mr Morlon said. 'Now, in a matter of days, the relationship the consumer has built up with this product has been absolutely shattered. Sales have collapsed. Yet... a small trace of listeria does not necessarily entail a risk to the consumer.' =20 In adopting the EU directive, which allows no evidence of listeria in any random 25-gram sample, the French government has caved in to the American and northern European obsession with hygiene, the industry argues. It is promoting the insipid taste of pasteurised, over-processed dairy foods rather than the unique flavours of French cheese. =20 According to government statistics, the French eat 80 per cent of all the unpasteurised cheese produced in Europe. Sales of some strong brands, such as crottin de Chavignol and camembert, have risen by as much as 105 per cent in the last decade. But a well-publicised product recall can have a devastating impact. The French dairy retailers' association says sales of saint-felicien fell 70 per cent in the past month. =20 'The publicity given to these cases has been out of all proportion,' Mr Morlon said. 'On the television news they've come between the war in Kosovo and the fire in the Mont Blanc tunnel. You can imagine the effect on the consumer.' =20 In fact France's traditional cheeses have never been healthier, says Jean-Francois Renard, managing director of the brie makers Renard et Gillard. 'Each year we plough 2 per cent of our turnover into hygiene controls.' =20 'We've spent =A35 million on training... As a result of our own analyses we destroy the 2-3 per cent of our produce that doesn't come up to scratch. And over the last 10 years, illnesses due to listeria in France have more than halved.' =20 =A9 Copyright Guardian Media Group plc. 1999 =20 =20 --part1_c6d96ec1.243b8243_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd03.mail.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Tue, 06 Apr 1999 03:21:10 -0500Received: from mail1-gui.server.which.net (mail1-gui.server.which.net [194.168.97.3]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id DAA08622; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 03:21:02 -0400 (EDT)Received: from which.net ([194.168.101.84]) by mail1-gui.server.which.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-33929U70000L2S50) with ESMTP id AAA2786; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:21:42 +0100Message-ID: <3709B365.AE9E0ED6@which.net>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:10:29 +0100From: John Whiting Reply-To: John Whiting Organization: Diatribal PressX-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)MIME-Version: 1.0To: Guild of Food Writers List Subject: L'Epoisses est mort Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------54D67B98109DCCD5F307F49D" Reply-To: To: undisclosed-recipients:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------------------- When even the French cave in to this madness, it begins to look as if we’re fighting a losing battle. Have I eaten my last époisses? My three excursions through France this year will be long and lingering. . . John ###################################################################### French cheesed off with EU ruling Jon Henley in Paris on the directive causing a stink Monday April 5, 1999 The Guardian The first to fall foul of the new regulations was a particularly smelly époisses from Burgundy. Then came a rich and runny maroilles from Aisne, and a notably creamy saint-félicien from the Isère region. Finally, this weekend, it was a crusty camembert from Calvados country. Since the beginning of the year, when the French government belatedly implemented a 1992 European Union directive on unpasteurised dairy produce, four of the country's finest cheeses have been forcibly removed from sale - to the mounting fury of a dairy industry that once boasted nearly as many types of cheese as there are days in the year. 'Don't get me wrong, we're all for safety, but the only word for this is psychosis,' said Luc Morlon of the firm Lactelis, whose Lepetit camembert was the latest cheese to be recalled, amid massive publicity, after checks at a shop revealed minute traces of listeria. 'The Lepetit brand has existed for 130 years without a single problem,' Mr Morlon said. 'Now, in a matter of days, the relationship the consumer has built up with this product has been absolutely shattered. Sales have collapsed. Yet... a small trace of listeria does not necessarily entail a risk to the consumer.' In adopting the EU directive, which allows no evidence of listeria in any random 25-gram sample, the French government has caved in to the American and northern European obsession with hygiene, the industry argues. It is promoting the insipid taste of pasteurised, over-processed dairy foods rather than the unique flavours of French cheese. According to government statistics, the French eat 80 per cent of all the unpasteurised cheese produced in Europe. Sales of some strong brands, such as crottin de Chavignol and camembert, have risen by as much as 105 per cent in the last decade. But a well-publicised product recall can have a devastating impact. The French dairy retailers' association says sales of saint-felicien fell 70 per cent in the past month. 'The publicity given to these cases has been out of all proportion,' Mr Morlon said. 'On the television news they've come between the war in Kosovo and the fire in the Mont Blanc tunnel. You can imagine the effect on the consumer.' In fact France's traditional cheeses have never been healthier, says Jean-Francois Renard, managing director of the brie makers Renard et Gillard. 'Each year we plough 2 per cent of our turnover into hygiene controls.' 'We've spent £5 million on training... As a result of our own analyses we destroy the 2-3 per cent of our produce that doesn't come up to scratch. And over the last 10 years, illnesses due to listeria in France have more than halved.' © Copyright Guardian Media Group plc. 1999 --part1_c6d96ec1.243b8243_boundary-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Apr 6 14:15:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08554 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23824; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23061 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AE50F2@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:02:21 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 6 Apr 99 14:02:16 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 6 Apr 99 14:01:59 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:01:53 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Pesticides in Rain!! Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1DC3DEC3C2F@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 548 The following was posted to the organic gardening list serve. Anyone know any more? Anita ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU Someone posted this to my mailing list and it is scary!! ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Swiss Study Says It's Raining Pesticides Excerpts: Rain is not what it used to be. A new study reveals that much of the precipitation in Europe contains such high levels of dissolved pesticides that it would be illegal to supply it as drinking water. Studies in Switzerland have found that rain is laced with toxic levels of atrazine, alachlor and other commonly used crop sprays. The chemicals appear to have evaporated from fields and become part of the clouds. In the latest study, the highest concentrations of pesticides turned up in the first rain after a long dry spell, particularly when local fields had recently been sprayed. Until now, scientists had assumed that the pesticides only infiltrated groundwater directly from fields. To read the rest of the article, go to: http://yourhealthdaily.com/ ------- End of forwarded message ------- Cyndi _______________________________________________________________________________ Oakland, California Zone 9 USDA; Zone 16 Sunset Western Garden Guide Chemically sensitive/disabled - Organic Gardening only by choice and neccessity _______________________________________________________________________________ "There's nothing wrong with me. Maybe there's Cyndi Norman something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG) cyndi@consultclarity.com http://www.consultclarity.com/ _________________ Owner of the Immune Website & Lists http://www.immuneweb.org/ Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Apr 6 17:39:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14007 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29739; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29499 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:23:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slip202-135-86-142.ak.nz.ibm.net (slip202-135-86-142.ak.nz.ibm.net [202.135.86.142]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA97700 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:26:36 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:26:36 GMT Message-Id: <199904062126.VAA97700@out1.ibm.net> X-Sender: lblair@pop03.ca.us.ibm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Lynton Blair Subject: Re: Good bye for now, (Going to War) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 549 Hi Martin, Good luck with the y2k. I just finished programming a y2k project. I'll have a look at the site. Lynton At 07:12 AM 4/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hello Folks > >Big change in my life requires that I secede my BD research to my >partner, >Jasper Koster-Nyberg, who will be taking primary responsibilities for >managing >our farm this spring and summer. She is a certified Environmental >Horticulturist and is capable of offering much good contribution to the >BDnow >list. Even so, she will likely just lurk for a while! >Y2K is getting TOP PRIORITY in the world's governments and >mega-corporations >who are truly on a "war-footing" to combat this problem. They are >spending >literally billions and perhaps trillions of $ or yen, or marks, or >whatever. >The majority of the small business community (that includes farms), >approximately 23,000,000 companies in the US alone, have not even >started to >consider this problem and they are the backbone of our economy and >community. >I am taking a full-time position as a director of Internet marketing for >an >international firm here in Seattle. They have made me an offer I cannot > >refuse and in the spirit of preparing both my family and the community >for the >coming Y2K challenge, I will be heading up the marketing of the >companies >software product, called "Trimaran 2000" to the small business >community. >This is the best Y2K project management in-a-box product of its kind >that I >have found. > >For the sake of our prosperity in the 21st Century, please do your best >to >make sure you, your neighbors, business partners, and customers, are >ready >for Y2K. > >To learn more about Trimaran 2000 and the Y2K small business challenge, >go to: >http://www.systemicsolutions.com. Trimaran 2000 is the only >"product" ever endorsed by the globally renowned Y2K proponent Mr. Peter >de >Jager. http://www.year2000.com. > >I will miss you all and hope to see you at a NW Biodynamic Conference in > >Seattle in winter '99/'2000~!! > >Martin Nyberg >GreenMan Farm CSA >Vashon, WA. USA >(206)567-4548 > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Apr 6 18:14:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14661 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA05256; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.frontiercoop.com (mail.frontiercoop.com [208.130.190.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04968 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com (ERICA.RENAUD [172.16.10.152]) by mail.frontiercoop.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-37991U200L2S100) with SMTP id AAA2461 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:01:47 -0500 Date: 06 Apr 99 17:02:28 -0500 From: Erica Renaud To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" X-Mailer: QuickMail Pro 1.5.3b3 (Windows32) X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Message-ID: <19990406220147437.AAA2461@erica.renaud.frontiercoop.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id RAA04974 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 550 unsubscribe From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Apr 7 02:26:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA21455 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 02:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA28870; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 01:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28809 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 01:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wolfenet.com (sea-pm3-6-p179.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.179]) by wolfenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03580 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <370AED84.A3505C2@wolfenet.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:30:48 -0700 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Good bye for now, (Going to War) References: <199904062126.VAA97700@out1.ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 551 Thanks so much Lynton. IF you have any comments please email me directly at greenman@wolfenet.com. What kind of project was this you finished? Congratuations. It is rare that these projects even get started, let alone finished! Martin Nyberg Lynton Blair wrote: > Hi Martin, > > Good luck with the y2k. I just finished programming a y2k project. I'll > have a look at the site. > > Lynton > > At 07:12 AM 4/6/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Hello Folks > > > >Big change in my life requires that I secede my BD research to my > >partner, > >Jasper Koster-Nyberg, who will be taking primary responsibilities for > >managing > >our farm this spring and summer. She is a certified Environmental > >Horticulturist and is capable of offering much good contribution to the > >BDnow > >list. Even so, she will likely just lurk for a while! > >Y2K is getting TOP PRIORITY in the world's governments and > >mega-corporations > >who are truly on a "war-footing" to combat this problem. They are > >spending > >literally billions and perhaps trillions of $ or yen, or marks, or > >whatever. > >The majority of the small business community (that includes farms), > >approximately 23,000,000 companies in the US alone, have not even > >started to > >consider this problem and they are the backbone of our economy and > >community. > >I am taking a full-time position as a director of Internet marketing for > >an > >international firm here in Seattle. They have made me an offer I cannot > > > >refuse and in the spirit of preparing both my family and the community > >for the > >coming Y2K challenge, I will be heading up the marketing of the > >companies > >software product, called "Trimaran 2000" to the small business > >community. > >This is the best Y2K project management in-a-box product of its kind > >that I > >have found. > > > >For the sake of our prosperity in the 21st Century, please do your best > >to > >make sure you, your neighbors, business partners, and customers, are > >ready > >for Y2K. > > > >To learn more about Trimaran 2000 and the Y2K small business challenge, > >go to: > >http://www.systemicsolutions.com. Trimaran 2000 is the only > >"product" ever endorsed by the globally renowned Y2K proponent Mr. Peter > >de > >Jager. http://www.year2000.com. > > > >I will miss you all and hope to see you at a NW Biodynamic Conference in > > > >Seattle in winter '99/'2000~!! > > > >Martin Nyberg > >GreenMan Farm CSA > >Vashon, WA. USA > >(206)567-4548 > > > > > > > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Apr 7 04:12:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22370 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA07741; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1.boston.juno.com (m1.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.199]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA07665 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 03:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from barrylia@juno.com) by m1.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D7LAPD4W; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:01:42 EDT To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 01:00:38 -0700 Subject: Re: rather appropriate (animal topic) Message-ID: <19990407.010039.-3978431.9.barrylia@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,8,10-13,15-32,34,36-37,39,41-44,46,48-49,51,53,55,57-60,62,64,66,68,70-71,73,75,77,79,81,83,85-87,89,91,93-104 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Barry D Lia Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 552 Anita, Sounds like you're referring to "The Man Who LISTENS to Horses", by Monty Roberts (ISBN 0-679-45658-9). I first heard about him on NPR too. Happened to get to SEE him do his "join-up" the other day on the Animal Planet Channel. Very impressive. Though it looks simple in principle, it was quite a story of discovery, since his father raised him to "break" horses. He got his ideas observing Mustangs in the wild. Amazing fellow. At the end of the show, they show him laying out on the lawn with a local buck deer he's befriended nuzzling his arms and face like a puppy! _________________________________________________________________________ _____ Barry Lia, Seattle On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:17:38 EST5EDT "Anita Graf (Staff)" writes: >Martha, thanks for the stories. Very nice. And congratulations on >your new kids. > >I just wanted to verify about the book. The one I'm talking about is > >a real life story. The best that I can figure is there are two >similar books, one fiction (from which the movie follows) and the >other one which maybe titled more like, "The Man Who Talks To >Horses," or some such thing. I just can't remember exactly. Anyway, >the only reason I found out about this book in the first place is >that I heard the guy interviewed on NPR. He's the guy who helped >train Queen Elizebeth's horses. The book is a sort of autobiography >-- even has picures. It's the *real life* aspect that I really like. >Anita > >Martha wrote: > >There are a couple of 'gentling' training groups. The Mallon Method is one, >who also 'whispers' to communicate with horses and llamas and other stock >they're trying to teach. Also, someone called Pony Boy has written two >training books, one geared for teenagers mostly, and he uses quietude and >horse 'sense' to train both horse and rider. He's been interviewed on Talk >Spot and comes across as very sensible. >When asked if he'd seen/ read Horse Whisperer, he replied it would be >judgmental for him to do so. I read HW awhile back also the next one by >same author called The Loop. (About trapping wolves.) If HW movie differs >wildly from the book, imagine how much the book (fiction after all) must >differ from the person they're trying to portray. >A long time ago, I was with my Dad (I was pretty little) and an old cowboy >showed us a trick he used to judge which horse he wants to start training. >Now this man was a holdover from the Goodnight Trail days, and I loved to >listen to his stories. We all went into the corral with some yearling colts >and squatted down and just talked like they weren't there. This guy had >picked up some pebbles and was casually tossing them from hand to hand >while we all 'hunkered down'. As soon as the horses settled down and >stopped showing us their haunches, he watched which ones were turned toward >us, ears pricked and which were looking for a way out. He'd take a stone >and just flip it off to the side, or in the middle of the ring. Two horses >out of the 10 or so were curious enough and fearless of us enough to walk >over to see what he was doing. he stood up, still tossing the stones, and >they didn't booger at all. >We all walked out and he said those were the two he'd start with, they let >their intelligence overrule their first fear and that was the first break he looked for. >he had a cute story that took me years to figure out. When asked how he got >his horses SO BIG, (Quarter horses that are draft sized), he said he has a >secret way of going out to the feed trough and picking up some of the feed >and rubbing it between their eyes. Well, everyone thought it was something >in the rubbing. Years later it dawned on me, he said PICK FEED UP OUT OF >THE TROUGH, so it meant that he merely kept feed out free choice. >Speaking of animals,, Annie just kidded with twin bucks. I had doelings >sold of course, but she's proud as punch over them anyhow. So am I, even if >it is an April Fool joke on me. (She kidded but I'm the one covered with >amniotic fluid. Why is this stuff so astringent?) Happily going in to shower, >martha > > >Anita Graf >313-F Conner Hall >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >University of Georgia >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >(706) 542-1915 phone >(706) 542-0739 fax >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Apr 7 05:27:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA22940 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA11355; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.igrin.co.nz (mail.igrin.co.nz [202.49.244.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA11238 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (whan-032.igrin.co.nz [202.49.246.132]) by mail.igrin.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA31937 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:11:58 +1200 Message-ID: <005901be80d5$8ed27860$7ff631ca@oemcomputer> From: "g&y bodle" To: "BD List" Subject: GE Salmon in NZ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:00:21 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE8139.A64F81E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 553 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE8139.A64F81E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ge Salmon have been discovered in a NZ fish farm with deformaties. They = are the results of experiments underway before there were any = regulations about GE trials in this country. I have the article from the NZ Herald on disc if anyone would like me to = send it to them- but it is a bit long to clog up the list downloads. Just email me and I can send it to you. Gareth Bodle Whangarei NZ glend@igrin.co.nz =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE8139.A64F81E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ge Salmon have been discovered in a = NZ fish farm=20 with deformaties. They are the results of experiments underway before = there were=20 any regulations about GE trials in this country.
 
I have the article from the NZ = Herald on disc if=20 anyone would like me to send it to them- but it is a bit long to clog up = the=20 list downloads.
Just email me and I can send it to=20 you.
 
Gareth Bodle
Whangarei NZ
glend@igrin.co.nz =20
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE8139.A64F81E0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Apr 7 11:43:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29256 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:43:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11421; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11214 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AF2A62@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:33:35 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 7 Apr 99 11:33:31 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 7 Apr 99 11:33:13 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:33:13 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: rather appropriate (animal topic) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990407.010039.-3978431.9.barrylia@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1F1C4056889@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 554 YES!!! That's the title and the guy!! (I knew the title was different from the movie, but I have a recalcitrant memory to contend with -- seems to have a mind of its own!) Thanks so much for clearing this up for everybody, including me. I really encourage everyone to check it out -- at least take a trip to the bookstore and read a few pages. I'm sure you'll be impressed. I was. > Anita, > Sounds like you're referring to "The Man Who LISTENS to Horses", by > Monty Roberts (ISBN 0-679-45658-9). I first heard about him on NPR too. > Happened to get to SEE him do his "join-up" the other day on the Animal > Planet Channel. Very impressive. Though it looks simple in principle, it > was quite a story of discovery, since his father raised him to "break" > horses. He got his ideas observing Mustangs in the wild. Amazing fellow. > At the end of the show, they show him laying out on the lawn with a local > buck deer he's befriended nuzzling his arms and face like a puppy! > _________________________________________________________________________ > _____ > Barry Lia, Seattle > > > On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:17:38 EST5EDT "Anita Graf (Staff)" > writes: > >Martha, thanks for the stories. Very nice. And congratulations on > >your new kids. > > > >I just wanted to verify about the book. The one I'm talking about is > > > >a real life story. The best that I can figure is there are two > >similar books, one fiction (from which the movie follows) and the > >other one which maybe titled more like, "The Man Who Talks To > >Horses," or some such thing. I just can't remember exactly. Anyway, > >the only reason I found out about this book in the first place is > >that I heard the guy interviewed on NPR. He's the guy who helped > >train Queen Elizebeth's horses. The book is a sort of autobiography > >-- even has picures. It's the *real life* aspect that I really like. > >Anita > > > >Martha wrote: > > > >There are a couple of 'gentling' training groups. The Mallon Method is > one, > >who also 'whispers' to communicate with horses and llamas and other > stock > >they're trying to teach. Also, someone called Pony Boy has written two > >training books, one geared for teenagers mostly, and he uses quietude > and > >horse 'sense' to train both horse and rider. He's been interviewed on > Talk > >Spot and comes across as very sensible. > >When asked if he'd seen/ read Horse Whisperer, he replied it would be > >judgmental for him to do so. I read HW awhile back also the next one by > >same author called The Loop. (About trapping wolves.) If HW movie > differs > >wildly from the book, imagine how much the book (fiction after all) must > > >differ from the person they're trying to portray. > >A long time ago, I was with my Dad (I was pretty little) and an old > cowboy > >showed us a trick he used to judge which horse he wants to start > training. > >Now this man was a holdover from the Goodnight Trail days, and I loved > to > >listen to his stories. We all went into the corral with some yearling > colts > >and squatted down and just talked like they weren't there. This guy had > >picked up some pebbles and was casually tossing them from hand to hand > >while we all 'hunkered down'. As soon as the horses settled down and > >stopped showing us their haunches, he watched which ones were turned > toward > >us, ears pricked and which were looking for a way out. He'd take a stone > > >and just flip it off to the side, or in the middle of the ring. Two > horses > >out of the 10 or so were curious enough and fearless of us enough to > walk > >over to see what he was doing. he stood up, still tossing the stones, > and > >they didn't booger at all. > >We all walked out and he said those were the two he'd start with, they > let > >their intelligence overrule their first fear and that was the first > break he looked for. > >he had a cute story that took me years to figure out. When asked how he > got > >his horses SO BIG, (Quarter horses that are draft sized), he said he has > a > >secret way of going out to the feed trough and picking up some of the > feed > >and rubbing it between their eyes. Well, everyone thought it was > something > >in the rubbing. Years later it dawned on me, he said PICK FEED UP OUT OF > > >THE TROUGH, so it meant that he merely kept feed out free choice. > >Speaking of animals,, Annie just kidded with twin bucks. I had doelings > >sold of course, but she's proud as punch over them anyhow. So am I, even > if > >it is an April Fool joke on me. (She kidded but I'm the one covered with > > >amniotic fluid. Why is this stuff so astringent?) Happily going in to > shower, > >martha > > > > > >Anita Graf > >313-F Conner Hall > >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > >University of Georgia > >Athens, GA 30602-7509 > >(706) 542-1915 phone > >(706) 542-0739 fax > >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Apr 7 11:49:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29416 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA12505; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12313 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AF2CBC@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:40:02 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 7 Apr 99 11:39:58 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 7 Apr 99 11:39:41 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:39:40 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: GE Salmon in NZ Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005901be80d5$8ed27860$7ff631ca@oemcomputer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1F1DF9D3C55@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 555 I didn't realize that salmon could be raised on a fish farm. But I suppose that given the way fish hatcheries work, there could be GE salmon out there in the oceans and rivers too. Ugh. What does this leave the seafood lover with? What is there that isn't contaminated with GE and is relatively uncontaminated by all the other pollutants in the world's waters? Is there any seafood that is politically, environmentally, and health safety correct to eat? If you have any suggestions, please speak, this is not a rhetorical question. Anita > Ge Salmon have been discovered in a NZ fish farm with deformaties. They are the results of experiments underway before there were any regulations about GE trials in this country. > > I have the article from the NZ Herald on disc if anyone would like me to send it to them- but it is