From milstein@pipeline.com  Mon Jan 29 17:36:07 1996
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To: "Lawrence F. London,Jr." <london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: CSA Network (CSA Internet mailing-list).
From: milstein@pipeline.com (Sarah Milstein)
Cc: John Barclay <jbarclay@prairienet.org>
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On Jan 29, 1996 10:28:57, '"Lawrence F. London, Jr."
<london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu>' wrote: 
 
 
> 
>I can also offer a mailing list for CSA discussion.... 
 
As you may hear from John, he has already requested from his server a list 
(csa-l@prairienet.org) that he and I would moderate.  It should be up and
running within a week or so.  Since I'm just learning about the software
protocols for lists, perhaps you and he should decide who has the best
arrangement for the sorts of discussions we'd all like to have.  I would,
though, appreciate being cc'd on this as you discuss it.    
 
I thought your general ideas for a list were quite solid, and I look
forward to reading more from you. 
 
Thanks for your input. 
 
Sarah Milstein 
 
milstein@pipeline.com

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Fri Mar 15 15:38:04 1996
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From: rollo@artvark.com (Rollo Silver)
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: permaculture listserv
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Help! I was able to subscribe to the csa-l listserv, but NOT to the
permaculture listserv. My attempts have been refused.

Can anyone tell me how to subscribe to the permaculture listserv?

Rollo Silver                | e-mail: rollo@artvark.com                  |
Artvark                     | Home page: http://www.artvark.com/artvark/ |
PO Box 219                  | Voice: 505-586-0197                        |
San Cristobal, NM 87564 USA | Compuserve 71174,1453                      |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Tue Mar 19 19:57:10 1996
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From: milstein@pipeline.com (Sarah Milstein)
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Institutions & CSAs
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Hi, folks. 
 
Has anyone out there had any experience selling CSA shares to institutions
(distributors, restaurants, schools, hospitals) or engaging in any other
alternative economy with institutions?  If so, what was your arrangement
and how did it work?   
 
I'm exploring this question with a farmer and we'd love some creative
input. 
 
Thanks much. 
 
Sarah Milstein 
 

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Tue Mar 19 20:53:24 1996
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From: sgs@umext.umass.edu
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From:	IN%"sgs@umext.umass.edu" 19-MAR-1996 15:41:41.35
To:	IN%"sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu"
CC:	IN%"sgs@umext.umass.edu"
Subj:	CSAs in Connecticut

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From: sgs@umext.umass.edu
Subject: CSAs in Connecticut
To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu
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hi all,

I have a rather specific question.  I have some
friends who would like to join a CSA in the
New Haven CT area.  Anyone out there know where
I can point them.  I'd appreciate any suggestions.

TIA

Sonia


****************************************************************

Sonia Schloemann        		Dept. of Plant Pathology
Extension Educator                            Fernald Hall/UMass
Agroecology Program                           Amherst, MA  01003
University of Massachusetts Extension
                   			    voice: (413)545-4347
sgs@umext.umass.edu	   		    fax:   (413)545-2532
****************************************************************

****************************************************************

Sonia Schloemann        		Dept. of Plant Pathology
Extension Educator                            Fernald Hall/UMass
Agroecology Program                           Amherst, MA  01003
University of Massachusetts Extension
                   			    voice: (413)545-4347
sgs@umext.umass.edu	   		    fax:   (413)545-2532
****************************************************************

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Wed Mar 20 03:29:22 1996
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From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <london@helios.oit.unc.edu>
To: Sarah Milstein <milstein@pipeline.com>
Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Institutions & CSAs
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On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Sarah Milstein wrote:

> Has anyone out there had any experience selling CSA shares to institutions
> (distributors, restaurants, schools, hospitals) or engaging in any other
> alternative economy with institutions?  If so, what was your arrangement
> and how did it work?   

I have heard it suggested selling shares _through_ food-coops and 
farmer's marketing coops to subscribers. Selling _to_ those organizations 
certainly sounds like a creative possibility.

I would imagine there ought to be many schools, restaurants and distributors
whould would entertain the idea of subscribing. Success would depend on
the openmindedness and dietary flexibility of their clients.

:
Lawrence F. London, Jr., Venaura Farm, Chapel Hill, NC USA 
london@sunSITE.unc.edu - http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london
london@mercury.interpath.net - http://www.interpath.net/~london 
http://sunsite.unc.edu/london/Elsewhere.html - Links Page
Organic Gardening, CSA & Permaculture Information
:

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Wed Mar 20 15:40:28 1996
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From: milstein@pipeline.com (Sarah Milstein)
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Cc: sgs@umext.umass.edu
Subject: Re: CSAs in Connecticut
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On Mar 19, 1996 15:41:30, 'sgs@umext.umass.edu' wrote: 
 
 
>I have some 
>friends who would like to join a CSA in the 
>New Haven CT area.  Anyone out there know where 
>I can point them. 
 
Generally speaking, the best way to find a CSA in any given area is to call
the Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association in Kimberton, PA.  They
keep a pretty thorough database of all the CSAs in the country and will
send you a free list of CSA farms in a specified area.  Their number is
1.800.516.7797.  Leave a message if the machine picks up; they will
respond. 
 
Sarah Milstein

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Thu Mar 21 03:50:11 1996
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From: Spring Toms <spring@ecst.csuchico.edu>
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Selling CSA SHARES
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I am trying something new. I am giving out three GIFT CERTIFICATES every 
week to friends of current members. Members call me and give me the name 
of their friend who is interested in possibly subscribing. I have made up 
a nice but simple certificate (3 to the page) and print them up on card 
stock. I print in the recipients name, the host's name, and the date they 
can pick up a SHARE. I thank them for their interest in CSA and sign my name.

I usually mail them with a flier about the farm and CSA. It looks neat. 
It looks official, and they get one week of free hands on experience with 
my CSA.

I got the idea last year when everyone was in the process of going on 
vacation. I encouraged them to give their SHARE to a friend for the weeks 
they were away. Several people signed up after a week or two of trying it 
out.

I'll see how it goes, but already several members have been interested in 
being able to "give this gift" to some of their friends.

Richard Roth
R farm
1318 Bruce Street
Chico, CA 95928


From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Thu Mar 21 03:50:11 1996
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From: Spring Toms <spring@ecst.csuchico.edu>
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Selling CSA SHARES
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I am trying something new. I am giving out three GIFT CERTIFICATES every 
week to friends of current members. Members call me and give me the name 
of their friend who is interested in possibly subscribing. I have made up 
a nice but simple certificate (3 to the page) and print them up on card 
stock. I print in the recipients name, the host's name, and the date they 
can pick up a SHARE. I thank them for their interest in CSA and sign my name.

I usually mail them with a flier about the farm and CSA. It looks neat. 
It looks official, and they get one week of free hands on experience with 
my CSA.

I got the idea last year when everyone was in the process of going on 
vacation. I encouraged them to give their SHARE to a friend for the weeks 
they were away. Several people signed up after a week or two of trying it 
out.

I'll see how it goes, but already several members have been interested in 
being able to "give this gift" to some of their friends.

Richard Roth
R farm
1318 Bruce Street
Chico, CA 95928


From rollo@artvark.com  Wed Mar 20 22:48:25 1996
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:50:35 -0700
To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <london@helios.oit.unc.edu>
From: rollo@artvark.com (Rollo Silver)
Subject: Re: Institutions & CSAs
Status: RO
X-Status: A

Lawrence,
Please forgive my ignorance, but

1. Is there an FAQ or something to let a newbie get up to speed on this
listserv?

2. What does "CSA" stand for?

>On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Sarah Milstein wrote:
>
>> Has anyone out there had any experience selling CSA shares to institutions
>> (distributors, restaurants, schools, hospitals) or engaging in any other
>> alternative economy with institutions?  If so, what was your arrangement
>> and how did it work?
>
>I have heard it suggested selling shares _through_ food-coops and
>farmer's marketing coops to subscribers. Selling _to_ those organizations
>certainly sounds like a creative possibility.
>
>I would imagine there ought to be many schools, restaurants and distributors
>whould would entertain the idea of subscribing. Success would depend on
>the openmindedness and dietary flexibility of their clients.

Rollo Silver                | e-mail: rollo@artvark.com                  |
Artvark                     | Home page: http://www.artvark.com/artvark/ |
PO Box 219                  | Voice: 505-586-0197                        |
San Cristobal, NM 87564 USA | Compuserve 71174,1453                      |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


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From: mcsmiths@ccia.st-thomas.on.ca (Cathy Mcgregor-Smith)
To: CSA-L@prairienet.org
Subject: Southern Ontario Organic farm
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We have an OCIA certified organic vegetable farm in southern ontario Canada.We
have an on-farm market,small processing facility,storage room ,bees,poultry
and beef animals.
In 1996 we will be growing organically for 10 years. this year we offered
our customers a pre-payment option with a 10 % bonus on their investment.
The idea was well recieved....we feel we could do more.
Our customers will not have to take any risks or accept only what we send
them. They can use their investment to purchase anything from our farm market.

CSA's have to be able to "deliver" what they promise!!! We have talked to many 
unhappy (turned off) people who have experienced CSA'a.

If anyone knows of someone in our area wanting a reliable source Please
contact us.
                  Thanks Cathy

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Thu Mar 21 16:49:03 1996
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From: milstein@pipeline.com (Sarah Milstein)
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Selling CSA SHARES
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On Mar 20, 1996 19:41:27, 'Spring Toms <spring@ecst.csuchico.edu>' wrote: 
 
 
>I am giving out three GIFT CERTIFICATES every  
>week to friends of current members. 
 
Richard, this is a *great* idea!  We certainly get a lot of new members
every year through people who come to pick up for vacationing friends
during the season.   
 
I'm a little confused about the logistics, though.  How many shares do you
give away each week?  Is it three per week total?  How many shares do you
sell? 
 
Thanks for the info -  I'll pass it on to many a non-networked farm. 
 
Sarah Milstein

From almanac-request@amani.ces.ncsu.edu  Tue Mar 26 19:26:03 1996
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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 15:52:30 -0800
From: Multinational Exchange for Sustainable Agriculture <mesa@mailhost.hooked.net>
Message-Id: <199603262352.PAA15014@worm.hooked.net>
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Host farms needed!
Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu
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>----- Forwarded message (Multinational Exchange for Sustainable
Agriculture <mesa@hooked.net>) -----< 
 >  
 -----------------BRING THE WORLD TO YOUR DOOR----------------------  
>  
MESA, a non-profit, USIA-designated international exchange organization, is
now interviewing sustainable/organic growers, ag. extension agents and CSAs
to host young international farmers seeking live/work positions on your
farm/facility for one full year (6 months placements are available too).
MESA's Russian, Lithuanian, Honduran and Guatemalan candidates are
agriculturally skilled and want to improve their knowledge in sustainable
practices, thus promoting eco-farming around the world.  
>  
We are now seeking qualified hosts in the Western region of the U.S., but
we'll welcome inquiries from anywhere in the U.S. Host farms provide room,
board and a $675/month program fee (or $800/month w/room only). The program
fee enables MESA to provide its international farmers with $300/month
stipends, health  
insurance, educational seminars, J-1 visas, domestic travel and
administrative support. Host farms have no payroll taxes or legal
documentation concerns---plus a very reliable and enthusiastic individual
working full-time on your farm!   
 
We have just 3-4 more openings left, and we must secure placements for our
international farmers ASAP!  If you would like to receive specific
information about any of our applicants, please send us a brief
introduction with your full address and telephone #, or contact:  
  
>Lauren Augusta, Executive Director  
>MESA  
>5337 College Ave., ste. #508  
>Oakland, CA 94618  
>(510)654-8858  
>email: mesa@hooked.net  
>  
>************************************************************************* 
 
>                             
>  
-- 
(mesa@hooked.net) 

From Menasweare@aol.com  Mon Apr 15 22:59:53 1996
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To Tarfunk,

CSA in NYC is really taking off! Your timing is perfect. Go to the Just
Food's CSA sign-up fair on 4/16 from 6-9PM at the Learning Alliance, 324
Lafayette St., 7th Fl. Call 212-226-7171 for more info.

-Jonathan Running Wind

From mcsmiths@ccia.st-thomas.on.ca  Tue Apr 23 22:34:14 1996
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To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <london@sunsite.unc.edu>
From: mcsmiths@ccia.st-thomas.on.ca (Cathy Mcgregor-Smith)
Subject: Re: CSA query (fwd)
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>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: 19 Apr 1996 23:05:33 -0400
>From: Drobbi <drobbi@aol.com>
>To: sustag-public@amani.ces.ncsu.edu
>Subject: CSA query
>
>I'm freelancing an article on organic farming/CSAs focused on Eastern
>Massachusetts.  It seems like, all told, the number of CSAs in the U.S. is
>climbing.  I've found lots of reasons why many organic farmers are turning
>towards CSA.  Does anyone know of any that are turning away?  If so, why?
>
>hi Lawrence

we have an organic vegetable and market . see http://www.gks.com
                                                 McSmith's Farm Produce
we have a pre-payment option version of CSA. Over the last two years there
have been regular CSA's in our area. Unfortunately ,the grower sells too
many shares and is not able to satisfy his members. Several times either the
grower or his member come to our farm to buy our produce. this certainly
turns the member off the next year and it becomes expensive for the grower.
i think it must be stressed that the grower must be organized and have
"stick to it ness".Just because you might have some surplus veggies doesn't
mean the you can grow more to feed more the next season. Successive planting
is really important.
the grower must know what the members are expecting..(tomatoes to
freeze,potatoes to store etc)

bye for now            Cathy        please check out our homepage.

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Fri May 10 21:23:14 1996
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From: John Barclay <jbarclay@prairienet.org>
To: CSA Networking List <csa-l@prairienet.org>
Subject: CSA-L and Outreach and Turnover Questions
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The number of subscribers to CSA-L has grown gradually to 92 over the 
last couple of months.  People who are new to the list are welcome to 
send out a short description of themselves, the CSA they work with, 
and what they are looking to gain from this e-mail network list. Below 
are some general questions I have regarding member turnover and 
outreach:  

We've just finished signing up members for our third year at Prairieland 
CSA in Champaign, IL.  Over three years we've grown from 30 (1994) to 70 
(1995) to 110 (1996)  members, but have had high turnover and a trend 
toward more people purchasing the smaller of the two size shares we 
offer.  Despite a slow start in recruiting this February and March, we 
ended up surpassing our outreach goals by the beginning of May.  
Approximately 2/3 of last years 70 shareholders left and many more new 
members joined this year.  Many of our shareholders are from the local 
university community (University of Illinois) so we expect a fair amount 
of turnover, but not this much and we have little success getting surveys 
back from the shareholders that don't come back.

I am interested in hearing from other CSA's how great their turnover is 
and if turnover rates do eventually drop as CSAs grow older.  I expected 
a high percentage of the first-time members to not return, but I also 
expected that over the years first-time members would make up a smaller 
and smaller percentage of the CSA, thus decreasing the overall turnover 
rate.  This doesn't seem to be happening.  

After we take a closer look at the various ways we did outreach and which 
were most effective, I plan to post the results to CSA-L.  I would be 
interested in what types of outreach work for other CSA's as well as any 
innovative ideas such as the CSA that gives out free sample shares during 
the season.

John Barclay, Prairieland CSA, Champaign, IL


From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Mon May 13 10:40:59 1996
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Subject: Ocean Sky Farm
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In response to jbarclay's request:
My husband, three small children and I cultivate our 2 organic acres on an
island 35 minutes by ferry from Seattle.  The island has a population of
16,000+, mostly white collar commuters.  We have been developing the gardens
and  selling at the farmer's market for 4 years.  We are looking at
developing a csa component to our operations in Spring 97.  Things we have
read indicate it is not wise to base the entire farm income on csa revenues.
 We plan to begin with 15 shares next year.  A women on our island sold 10
shares for her start up csa this spring in 2 weeks.  Folks here are fresh and
interested in the concept, we have had numerous inquiries about it at the
market so I don't think it will be difficult to reach 15 members.  

I am interested in other's experiences in start up as well as growing on such
small acerage.  Do all csa's grow all vegetables?  Will shareholders mind if
I don't grow carrots?  
 I read an article in Growing for Market this month that described
distribution on shares by units.  This made sense to me but does anyone have
any experience in this?

There is so much information and energy if we can only share it! 
Thanks, Suzy

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Mon May 13 09:47:54 1996
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From: jrhall@iastate.edu
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: CSA and social services
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Greetings! I'm forwarding a request for information on from the 
coordinator of the Magic Beanstalk CSA in Ames, Ia, about what 
connections CSA's have made with social service agencies and low income 
members. I remember having seen a few mentions before, but maybe there 
are enough new folks to pass them through again. Thanks much.

About John's question on turnover, my sense is that college towns are a 
special challenge. Many of our members from our first year are going to 
be gone 1/4 to 1/2 the season, making it hard for them to even share a 
share. My thought is that we might try a hybrid subscription service as 
an experiment next year, after a first deadline for a full year, saying 
we have 10 slots each week, sign up ahead for when you will be around. 
These folks tend to be our highest income members, so we could charge a 
little extra for the work, and to encourage full season membership when 
possible. One other thing we are doing this year is offering a lot more 
ease of cooking information, and especially experiences. People have said 
eating healthy fresh food is a major time commitment, leading to a lot of 
"guilty dropouts", so educate and support people through those changes. 
Just knowing that is a normal part of changing to a sustainable lifestyle 
will help.

P.S. if anyone is in Iowa, or passing through, we are having a state CSA 
campout on a growers farm west of Cedar Rapids July 13-14. Farm Fresh CSA 
is 4 farm women cooperating in their second season in Benton Co Iowa; 
there are at least 4 new CSA's this year in Iowa.

 ---
Jeff Hall	
jrhall@iastate.edu

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Mon May 13 09:25:21 1996
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From: "Leslie L. Pelch" <lpelch@moose.uvm.edu>
To: John Barclay <jbarclay@prairienet.org>
Cc: CSA Networking List <csa-l@prairienet.org>
Subject: Re: CSA-L and Outreach and Turnover Questions
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Dear Mr. Barclay and the CSA list community,
before I address the question of outreach and turnover I would like to 
introduce myself.  I am a graduate student (for a few more days) at the 
University of Vermont in Burlington, VT, and I have just finished a 
thesis entitled:  An Economic Analysis of CSA Consumers.  I did a survey 
of members, ex-members, and non-members of three CSAs in Vermont, and 
then performed some statistical and econometric analysis on the data 
collected.  My purpose in life is NOT to become a number-cruncher, but 
rather to learn about the ways in which we can create a more sustainable 
food system and then apply what I have learned in the communities where I 
live.
So anyway, Word of mouth was definitely the most successful form of 
outreach because members (as opposed to ex and non-members) were most 
likely to have heard via that route.  The large CSA near where I live has 
gone through a lot of membership changes since it began 7 or so years ago 
and I can only relate my impressions of those changes.  It is only in the 
last 2 or 3 years that they have been able to attract plenty of members, 
and I believe that it is a result of settling into the operation, the 
land, and the community.  It takes time for the people who are really 
comfortable dealing with CSA to find it, and it takes time for the 
farmers to figure out what to offer in terms of services and produce.  
One of the innovative (although it may be a common practice?) things that 
they do is reward members who bring in friends to be members.  Given the 
results of my research, this is a very good idea.  I believe they gave 
away canvas bags with the CSA logo on it.  I would suggest that getting 
feedback from those members who are not renewing is the most important 
thing you could do.  If take home surveys aren't being returned, perhaps 
you should see if some of your committed members would be willing to do 
short phone surveys, perhaps just a random sample rather than the whole 
membership.  Good luck.
Leslie


***********************************
Leslie Pelch
Morrill Hall
University of Vermont
Burlington, VT 05401
(802)656-1022
lpelch@moose.uvm.edu
***********************************

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Tue May 14 13:25:58 1996
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From: William Blake <wiblake@ucdavis.edu>
To: Douglas Hendrickson <bg006@scn.org>
Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Salt Creek Farm CSA Turnover
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On Mon, 13 May 1996, Douglas Hendrickson wrote:

> 
> I too am worried about the drop outs and need to address what I believe to be 
> "the guilt complex"
> 
> I think there are a fair number of good intentioned folks who sign on only to 
> find themselves swamped with the quantity and diversity of food. We are probably y
> giving subscribers too much food. What quantities have worked well as an 
> average for other CSAs? Our shares are large, 10 -20 lbs per delivery. Half
> shares are also and option and appear to be growing. 

I think that "guilt complex" is very real.  From what I've seen, 
vegetable farmers eat a lot more fresh produce than other people.  
Members may find themselves swamped, and then they start contributing to 
the landfills when they had intended to help the environment.  Offering a 
half-share is a good option.

BTW, depending on the season, 10-20 pounds is probably on the large side 
of normal.

> 
> This season we are going to try to allow folks who don't like a particular
> vegie to replace it something else from a couple of extra share boxes at the 
> drop site. If you don't like mizuna, why take it? We also are going to let
> subscribers come out to the farm to customize their shares. We are making an 
> effort with our newsletter to try to educate folks about what to do with the 
> strange stuff etc. This will probably help to an extent but certainly wont 
> solve the drop out problem. Ideas?
> 

Giving people a chance to choose is great, although you may want to set 
limits 
as to how much customizing you're willing to do.  Do you have a "sharing" 
box/table at your drop-off, a place where people can leave what they 
don't want for someone else to take?

As others have said, providing recipes, especially easy recipes, helps 
members over their "vegetable shock."

Good luck filling out the membership!

Bill Blake


From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Tue May 14 13:55:28 1996
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From: "Peter D. Miller" <peterm@uiuc.edu>
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Salt Creek Farm CSA Turnover
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960514095537.10482D-100000@boris.ucdavis.edu>
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On Tue, 14 May 1996, William Blake wrote:
> On Mon, 13 May 1996, Douglas Hendrickson wrote:

> As others have said, providing recipes, especially easy recipes, helps 
> members over their "vegetable shock."

Hi-I'm Peter Miller from Prairieland CSA in Champaign, IL.  Our farmer is
paying with vegetables and share discounts to prepare "crop sheets"  for
all the different things that (we hope) will be harvested this year.  The
sheets will contain information about the crop (history, nutrition info.,
etc.) as well as a few recipes.  So by the end of the season, we'll have
48 of these sheets, ready to go for next year.  I imagine that we'll also
post the sheets on the web so that people elsewhere can use them and
improve on them. 

Has anyone else already done something like this?  If so, it would 
certainly be helpful to get a look at them (In fact, if they already 
exist, then we might be able to focus our efforts on updating them and 
making them available to other groups via the web!)

Good luck to everyone!
Peter

From almanac-request@amani.ces.ncsu.edu  Tue May 14 06:49:05 1996
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From: Edward.Groop@f103.n2245.z1.fidonet.org (Edward Groop)
Date: 29 Apr 96 21:22:40 -0800
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Greetings Dave,  Right now the wife and I are just planting for ourselves and
sons and a few family mmembers.  We are finally getting some warmer weather. 
Hollyhocks, Mint, Lilly of Valley are starting to show through the ground
along with rhubarb.  I started tilling to day, April 29th.  Will be done
tomorrow.  I have a brother-in-law who may be getting serious about 
gardening now that he is about to retire from Northern States Power, large
electrical generating company in our area.  He will be living just a few
miles from us when we retire to my wife's home place in Minnesota, 50 acres
50 miles NW of Minneapolis, Mn.  Will keep you informed about our herb garden
as it progress this year.  Have a good year with your endevours.  Peace,  Ed
and Margie

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Tue May 14 06:24:32 1996
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From: bg006@scn.org (Douglas Hendrickson)
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Salt Creek Farm  CSA Turnover
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Salt Creek Farm cultivates three or so acres for the communities of Port Angeles
Sequim, and Joyce WA. Last season we reached our goal of 30 subscribers. 
However, this season we have only 15 or so signed on. Only 5 or so from last
season have re-subscribed to date but I expect an additional 10 by the first
delivery. 

I too am worried about the drop outs and need to address what I believe to be 
"the guilt complex"

I think there are a fair number of good intentioned folks who sign on only to 
find themselves swamped with the quantity and diversity of food. We are probably y
giving subscribers too much food. What quantities have worked well as an 
average for other CSAs? Our shares are large, 10 -20 lbs per delivery. Half
shares are also and option and appear to be growing. 

This season we are going to try to allow folks who don't like a particular
vegie to replace it something else from a couple of extra share boxes at the 
drop site. If you don't like mizuna, why take it? We also are going to let
subscribers come out to the farm to customize their shares. We are making an 
effort with our newsletter to try to educate folks about what to do with the 
strange stuff etc. This will probably help to an extent but certainly wont 
solve the drop out problem. Ideas?

I would like to know what other CSAs are doing in the way of outreach. What
works well and what doesn't. Have any of you approached the religious 
communities for support and have they responded? What kind of effort have you made to 
made to reach out to the poor? 

I am sorry if these questions are redundant. I just discovered the network a 
few days ago.

My e-mail address is bg006@scn.org

Doug

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Thu May 16 14:21:47 1996
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From: Spring Toms <spring@ecst.csuchico.edu>
To: "Peter D. Miller" <peterm@uiuc.edu>
Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Salt Creek Farm CSA Turnover
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I run R farm in Chico, CA. I have around 50 active subscribers. I very
much like the idea of a public domain "crop sheet book" with several easy
recepies. I am pretty much a one person operation with some part time
seasonal help for one person, and getting out newsletters has been one of
my biggest hurdles, at least with any regularity. Some kind of cook book
for csa's would be a great help.

I know of some copy shops that would be
willing to keep the master and run off pages for customers as they need or
want them. This would make things even simpler for me.

I have a sign-in sheet at the pick-up sites and every week I try to have a
simple survey question they can answer to provide me with feedback.

I set up the harvest boxes and subscribers go down the list and fill their
own bags and boxes. One week I asked them if they would prefer I make up
individual boxes. It was almost unanimously "NO!" They prefered filling
their own. That surprised me. Now I need to go back and ask they why!

RE:Giving subscribers too much. I am not sure yet but I question the
assumption that you can. There were weeks when subscribers were taking
home 35-45 lbs of produce (including melons and sweetcorn, etc.) They were
making 2 to 4 trips to their vehicle to get it all. I have single women to
larger families that split a share. Some use it all themselves, others
take the excess to work to give away, others give the excess to friends
and neighbors, some just pick out as much as they think they can use and
leave the rest at the pick-up site. I try to emphasize that the "PRICE" is
based on what a single vegetarian would eat. R farm as a csa is only one
year old, so I'm not sure about this yet - it just seems there may finally
be a danger in believing to strongly that you are giving subscribers "too
much." It might be safer to assume you are going to be giving them more
than what they paid for when possible.

A PROBLEM: This year everyone's onions are going to seed. 80% plus are
flowering. Anybody got any ideas on how to salvage them?

Richard

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Thu May 16 15:22:59 1996
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From: jrhall@iastate.edu
To: spring@ecst.csuchico.edu
Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org, peterm@uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Salt Creek Farm CSA Turnover
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 16 May 1996 11:11:35 -0700 (PDT)
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> 
> I run R farm in Chico, CA. I have around 50 active subscribers. I very
> much like the idea of a public domain "crop sheet book" with several easy
> recepies. I am pretty much a one person operation with some part time
> seasonal help for one person, and getting out newsletters has been one of
> my biggest hurdles, at least with any regularity. Some kind of cook book
> for csa's would be a great help.

I've seen at least two very nice CSA cookbooks, the problem is expense or 
copyright. One wild idea might be for many CSA's to send what they've 
done to one person or CSA, have them make a "best of" and send out one 
copy and permission to copy to those CSAs, and others for a one time fee. 
Something that could be customized to your bioregion would be great, 
maybe include a disk with the computer settings to include your own stuff 
seamlessly... You can get those special recipe sized binders, too.
 > 
> I know of some copy shops that would be
> willing to keep the master and run off pages for customers as they need or
> want them. This would make things even simpler for me.
> 
> I have a sign-in sheet at the pick-up sites and every week I try to have a
> simple survey question they can answer to provide me with feedback.
> 
I'm curious what kind of questions give you the most useful information?
Do you prefer your xxx younger or larger?, that kind of thing?

> RE:Giving subscribers too much. I am not sure yet but I question the
> assumption that you can. There were weeks when subscribers were taking
> home 35-45 lbs of produce (including melons and sweetcorn, etc.) They were
> making 2 to 4 trips to their vehicle to get it all. I have single women to
> larger families that split a share. Some use it all themselves, others
> take the excess to work to give away, others give the excess to friends
> and neighbors, some just pick out as much as they think they can use and
> leave the rest at the pick-up site. I try to emphasize that the "PRICE" is
> based on what a single vegetarian would eat. R farm as a csa is only one
> year old, so I'm not sure about this yet - it just seems there may finally
> be a danger in believing to strongly that you are giving subscribers "too
> much." It might be safer to assume you are going to be giving them more
> than what they paid for when possible.

We really emphasized in our first year that they are helping rebuild a 
depleted knowledge base in our area. People can be overwhelmed with 
radishes and turnips, but can almost never get enough peas, carrots and 
tomatoes. Our first season was compressed by weather toward the mid season, 
but over time we will smooth that bulge out, stretch the season both ways, 
and provide greater variety throughout. If both grower and member have a 
view of this goal, they can work together to reach it. 
> 
> Richard
> 

On a totally different track, does anyone offer educational opportunities 
outside the usual apprenticeship or grade school visits? One of our 
college students wants to get Kellogg funds for a project linking our 
land grant, Iowa State, the community colleges and CSA's (and maybe those 
students working with younger ages too). If anyone has ideas, please let 
me know; thanks!

---
Jeff Hall	
jrhall@iastate.edu

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Sat May 18 02:55:55 1996
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From: bg006@scn.org (Douglas Hendrickson)
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I would like to increase my csa membership. I have lost about one half of my 
membership for the last couple of seasons. Word of mouth is does not seem to 
be enough for me. 

To those of you who have been at this for a while, what other outreach tactics 
seem to work well at obtaining subscribers and retaining them over the long h
haul?

What kinds of changes have you had to make to become more appealing? It seems 
as if one needs to be surrounded by a fairly progressive community in order to 
flourish. Are you folks who are doing "well" having to turn away prospective
members? I am frustrated with the slug like progress I'm making in this 
rather depressed timber based community. Am I the only one who feels like I am 
barely treading water?

Wishing I lived in Davis CA. 

Salt Creek Farm CSA

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Sat May 18 17:55:29 1996
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Subject: salt creek turnover
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Do you  permit or encourage installments on your payments?
Foulweather Farm in Hansville, WA does that and offers a 15percent discount
on folks who pay before a certain date.
Remember Douglas, send me a fax number or address and I'll send a copy of the
article on units from Growing for Market.
Has anyone else used the unit system mentioned in that periodical with their
CSA?
We are working on developing that system for next year as well as making a
canvas shopping bag to give to shareholders so they remember where their food
comes from.

Suzy, Ocean Sky Farm

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Mon May 20 12:48:21 1996
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From: jrhall@iastate.edu
To: jcb13@cornell.edu
Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: payment plans and units
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 20 May 1996 11:46:42 -0400
             <v02130500adc5f9e8f76d@[128.253.253.49]>
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We let people suggest their own payment plan, like West Haven. We are 
concerned that our membership be as diverse as possible, so I don't think 
we would consider discounts to people with more money, though we are also 
relatively small. Our coordinator has been working with a nearby social 
service grant writer, and hope to offer some assistance to low income 
families next year, if all goes well.

In a somewhat related area, is anyone doing or thinking of writing core 
group functions into your budget (ie paying both garden and coordination 
work in food, paid for by other members)? Do working members decide where 
to work, or does the group decide what work is available to people?

We also discussed at our last meeting approaching the farmers mkt, our 
local food coop, and perhaps others (restaurants, grocery chains) about 
working together to encourage people to eat locally, and perhaps help 
invest in local growers through revolving loan funds and/or "local food 
dollars". We think our state dept of econ. dev. would be interested in 
funding this sort of thing, is anyone familiar with anything like this 
around the country?

Finally, has anyone gone to the Equity Trust workshops on land trusts in 
CA or CT? I'm signed up for the one in Chicago June 14-16, and am 
interested in hearing what people have thought. 
 
> At West Haven Farm CSA here in Ithaca, we do allow (but I wouldn't say
> encourage) payment plans.  At first we made it cheaper to pay up front than
> to do installments, but we stopped doing that because we realized that if
> *we* wanted to join a CSA we'd need to pay in installments ourselves.
> 
> Our system works like this: Shareholders who want to pay in installments
> contact us, and we tell them that whatever schedule works for them is OK.
> We make it clear that we want to be farmers, not bankers, and that we won't
> send them reminders or statements.  They put in writing what they want to
> do, and send it to us with whatever deposit they can afford.  When we get
> this we send them a reciept stating what they've paid so far, what they
> owe, and the schedule they've said they'll keep.  We do our bookkeeping on
> Excel and we just keep track of when they make payments--it's almost always
> when they've said they will.  We usually have about 20 shares each year who
> choose this option, and we haven't had any problems with it.
> 
> Jen,
> who this season is hoping for 1/2 inch of gentle rain on Monday and
> Thursday nights
> 
> 

---
Jeff Hall	
jrhall@iastate.edu

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Mon May 20 11:49:15 1996
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From: jcb13@cornell.edu (Jennifer Bokaer-Smith)
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: payment plans and units
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At West Haven Farm CSA here in Ithaca, we do allow (but I wouldn't say
encourage) payment plans.  At first we made it cheaper to pay up front than
to do installments, but we stopped doing that because we realized that if
*we* wanted to join a CSA we'd need to pay in installments ourselves.

Our system works like this: Shareholders who want to pay in installments
contact us, and we tell them that whatever schedule works for them is OK.
We make it clear that we want to be farmers, not bankers, and that we won't
send them reminders or statements.  They put in writing what they want to
do, and send it to us with whatever deposit they can afford.  When we get
this we send them a reciept stating what they've paid so far, what they
owe, and the schedule they've said they'll keep.  We do our bookkeeping on
Excel and we just keep track of when they make payments--it's almost always
when they've said they will.  We usually have about 20 shares each year who
choose this option, and we haven't had any problems with it.

In terms of the unit system that was in GFM this month-- my take on it is
that it only works if you're dealing with really large amounts of produce.
You need to harvest enough so that those coming at the end of the pick-up
don't end up with 12 units of beans, or whatever.  They seemed to be
picking a lot to cover themselves, and then marketing the extras.  I think
it's rare to find market outlets for your extras.  It can damage your
reputation to market stuff that's been picked over or that's been sitting
around for a while, so be careful with the extras--make sure the quality is
good if you're going to market them instead of donate them, which I think
is more of the norm.

Last year we started offering choices to our shareholders--choose 2 of
broccoli, cauliflower, red cabbage, green cabbage, or choose two kinds of
herbs, or two bunches of 5 different kinds of greens.  This is a similar
idea but we've found that we don't need to pick tons extra in order for
everyone to get their first choice.  Because the items are so similar,
someone may end up with broccoli instead of cauliflower but it's not as
much of a drag for that last shareholder as it would be to end up with 12
lbs of beans, which I could imagine happening if we went to units.  So on a
small scale (we have about 50 shares), the "choices" option seems like a
good way to offer variety and customized shares without making other
compromises.

Good luck!

Jen,
who this season is hoping for 1/2 inch of gentle rain on Monday and
Thursday nights


From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Tue May 21 00:29:19 1996
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In a message dated 96-05-20 12:52:22 EDT, you write:

>We also discussed at our last meeting approaching the farmers mkt, our 
>local food coop, and perhaps others (restaurants, grocery chains) about 
>working together to encourage people to eat locally, and perhaps help 
>invest in local growers through revolving loan funds and/or "local food 
>dollars". We think our state dept of econ. dev. would be interested in 
>funding this sort of thing, is anyone familiar with anything like this 
>around the country?
>
>
Please let me know more about what your dept of econ dev. thinks of this
idea.  I am also president of our farmer's Market and it would be great to be
able to find a way to fund that sort of program.

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Tue May 21 13:17:24 1996
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Subject: Re: Support your local Farms programs
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I am on a city committee which is revising the ordinance that addresses
agricultural land uses and sales.  In our area agriculture is a preferred use
in residental zones and the political climate is incredibly supportive.
 However, we all know things change so we are being careful to protect
farming opportunities for the future.  We are looking for a definition of
"farm" as well as examples from small towns that have dealt with this issue.
The questions to be answered primarily are - What can be sold at roadside
stands? Only local produce, only produce grown on site, non-agricultural
items such as t-shirts, pumpkin carving kits and calendars, produce trucked
from other regions?  Should farmers have to comply with parking restrictions
and setback limits? Are CSAs considered roadside sales? 
HEEEEELP anyone?
Suzy

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Wed May 22 09:24:09 1996
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Subject: Re: Support your local Farms programs
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Suzy,

In California, roadside stands are addressed in state rather than local law.
 The state law exempts roadside stands from certain local health and building
codes i.e. they don't have to paint the walls a light color from the floor up
to 4' in height.

Roadside stands are imputed to be on-farm sales.  I would suggest if your
goal is to support local farmers to increase their economic take so they stay
in business, you let them sell directly related adjunct merchandise like
pumpkin carving kits, apple peelers, t-shirts with their farm logo, as well
as value-added produce like jams, jellies, ristras, garlic braids, etc.  The
adjunct merchandise, unlike produce is not perishable so the losses are less,
the margins are higher, and they lead to higher produce sales.  

Around here CSAs don't fall under the roadside stand regs.  The produce is
sold before it is picked up and the traffic is specific rather than general
public.  Also most CSAs in this region have neighborhood drop-off points in
near-by population centers so not all CSA shareholders come to the farm.


The questions you asked seem to indicate local shopkeepers are concerned
about the competition they perceive may be coming from farm stands.  This
needs more dialog with the townies rather than more regulation.  There are
studies available (I don't have them but have seen references maybe someone
else can help here) showing the more retail in a given area (provided the
scale of the operations is similar) the stronger everyone's sales are.
 Examples, in cities, shopping areas may find Macy's, Mervyn's, Penny's,
Sears, and Target within the same shopping area.  Smaller towns may have an
"antique alley" or a group of gift and small clothing stores.  It is not
uncommon to find McDonalds, Taco Bell and Burger King on opposite corners of
the same intersection.   

Consumers percieve choice differently than retailers do.  To consumers,
choice has to do with the look, feel and personality of the shop and
shopkeeper as much as the selection of merchandise.  Retailers seem to think
choice means your store carries more than one color of socks.

Setbacks and parking issues drive me crazy.  My personal opinion is that
government should get out of micro-managing the "how" i.e. specific set
backs, and look at compliance with "intent" i.e. "stands shall provide enough
parking to handle peak traffic flows in such manner as not to obstruct
traffic nor creat safety hazards to the driving public"  This is common sense
(probably missing in your town like it is here)  If cars parked at the stand
extend into the street and traffic has to drive around them, everyone is in
violation of the law.   Think about it, if you can't park conveniently and
safely at a business, will you shop there?  Of course not.  Is it legal in
you community to park your vehicle in such manner as it blocks the roadway?
 Of course not.   

These kinds of discussions are less about what's fair than what's fear.  A
good mediator could help everyone talk about what they want for their
community and what they fear for the community and their own businesses.
 Townies need to know their farming neighbors, farmers need to let townies
know they frequent town businesses and are part of the economic fabric of the
comunity as well as the "quality of life"

Marcie

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Wed May 22 11:44:41 1996
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Thank you for the info.

Part of the origin from this issue is that the population is growing with
people from urban California and suburban Seattle.  Some think farms are
pretty, quaint, things that smell sweet and farmers are "custodians of the
land."(does this mean we take out the trash?).  Others see this area as a
suburb of Seattle with culdesacs and like it.  Others remember the farms and
forests that used to be here and helped maintain the ecosystem not that long
ago.  All homes here are dependent on island well water and most have their
own drainfields.  Tax levies are passed to purchase open space/green areas
for preservation.  We farmers are trying to explain that farms are open
space/green areas that feed you and contribute to the econmic base of the
community.  One of the difficult part in arguing this is that farm size
ranges from 2 - 20 acres with the median being 5 acres so individually we
have very little impact and we tend to by nature be an independent slightly
indignant group that doesn't contribute to public policy making.

An example of potential public sentiment about this is when a new resident
came complaining to the committee about a farm stand next door to her.  She
didn't like the traffic that went up their driveway near her house and gosh
darn it she bought her 6 acres at top dollar and doesn't want to live next to
a retail establishment.  We explained that agriculture is a preferred use in
residential zones and this includes farm stands. She replied with distaste
"you mean all these beautiful homes could be dotted with farmstands?"  Yep.
 She was disgusted and left to continue her complaint process.
Now we also know she cut down all the vegetation that was a buffer between
the properties including a 100 year old apple tree.

We had a mediator meet with the farmers to what they want and need to
survive.  It was a bust perhaps because of the skills of mediator.

Would you suggest a limit on sales of directly related adjunct merchandise?
 Would a limit prevent a retail store from popping up in residential zones?
 or be unnecessary regulation.

The biggest issue with us is permitting sales of produce from off the island.
 One farmer imports apples to press cider (a main product from his
farmstand).  Apples grow well here but  this farmer doesn't want to wait
until his trees are in production.  Some think this in inappropriate, others
think it doesn't matter.  One farmer imports strawberries and corn in a very
visible farmstand.  The customer perceives these products as local.  The
quality is inferior to local produce so customers think all local produce
tastes bad.  I have a hard time selling my local corn to anyone who has
bought the perceived local corn.

We are addressing the labeling aspect of this problem but I am not sure the
customer will notice a label.

The other issue we have to define is that of a nursery being a farm.  Is
there a distinction?  Are bedding plants, produce starts, Rhodies in pots...
farm products to be sold at road side stand with no produce?  And what about
green house operations?  Do green houses contribute to that openspace/ green
space concept?  Perhaps they do if used as season extenders where plants are
planted directly into the ground.  But what about the concrete floor, heated,
lighted 3500 square foot one that the neighbors don't like in their quiet
forested neighborhood?

The fear from the farmers is that if the ordinance does not address issues
completely, a political shift in the government could alter the
interpretation of the law and eliminate farmstands in residential zones in
the future as the population becomes more dense thus putting farms out of
business.  

Surely others must have similar problems.  Thanks.

Suzy

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Tue May 28 09:58:43 1996
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From: milstein@nyc.pipeline.com (Sarah Milstein)
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: (Fwd) consumer surveys
X-PipeUser: milstein
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CSA-ers:  I picked this up off SANET.  If you respond, contact
skaktins@is.dal.ca. 
 
 
>----- Forwarded message (Syliva-Linda Kaktins <skaktins@is.dal.ca>) -----<

 
 
 
 
Due to financial cutbacks my grant for my masters thesis project has  
disappeared.  Originally I was going to do a consumer survey in Halifax  
regarding food consumption and purchasing behaviours, knowledge of  
Sustainable Agriculture and alternative methods, attitudes towards  
agribusiness, etc. etc.  As well, I would have been examining community  
supported agriculture as well and conducting interviews with CSA  
participant, both consumers and producers.  I was looking at CSA as a  
means of revitalization of the rural community by urban consumers.  Alas  
-no $$$. 
 
So I am attempting to the first part by an empirical review of consumer 
surveys in NA.  I am looking for recent surveys (government, academic, 
publication etc. sponsored) that scan the general population as well as 
those that are targeted to organic and CSA consumers which examine eating  
patterns, shopping patterns, 
attitudes to sustainable agriculture etc. etc..  Hopefully I will be able  
to find sufficient surveys to compare consumers who do participate in SA 
practices such as community supported agriculture etc. and those who do  
not.  I 
am interested in finding the differences and my qualitative aspect of my 
thesis will be interviewing participants in CSAs to put flesh onto the 
bones and find out what is that special something that pulls and/or drive 
consumers to make that change i.e. lifestyle, long-term commitment, risk 
etc. that is required to participate in CSAs [My definition of a CSA  
includes both sustainable and organic in case anyone is wondering if  
people actually read the philosophical debates on the network] 
 
The other question that I will be examining is given the responses what  
can producers, institutions and governments do to support this  
transition. 
 
So, during your explorations of SA, if you have come across any surveys,  
please let me know.  I already have one provided to my by Jerry Cohen  
(which helped spark this direction) and one from Cornell Cooperative  
Extension via Jeennifer Wilkins.  I will also be going directly to US and  
Cd census departments to get data from them. 
 
Any help would be appreciated and most welcomed.  Thanks. 
 
Sylvia-Linda Kaktins 
skaktins@is.dal.ca 
School for Resource and Environmental Studies 
Dalhousie University 
Halifax, N.S. 
B3H 3J5 
1-204-494-3632 
1-204-494-3728 (fax) 
 
 

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Wed May 29 10:36:59 1996
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From: milstein@nyc.pipeline.com (Sarah Milstein)
To: csa-l@prairienet.org
Subject: (Fwd) csa
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CSA'ers -  This is from Ellen Kapp, a new member of the list.  Please
respond to her or to the list, not to me directly.  - Sarah 
 
>----- Forwarded message (Ellen Kapp <ekapp@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>) -----< 
 
 
At the present time my husband 
and I work full time and do part time asparagus farming.  (busy springs!) 
I 
would like to try a CSA so I could get out from under the yoke of 9-5. 
However, I need to know more about the day to day operations and problems 
that start up causes.  I had been thinking of beginning with just ONE
person 
to see how it works.  Also, we live in an area of yuppie rich folks.  I had

thought of maybe doing a home delivery of fresh organic produce.  Does this

ever work or do you know anyone who does this? Lots of questions.  Ellen
Kapp

From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org  Wed May 29 16:38:23 1996
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Here on yuppie Bainbridge Island someone runs an organic delivery service
fairly successfully.  She gets some produce from the Seattle wholesaler but
as much as she can comes from local growers.  She operates out of a PO Box,
sending out bi-weekly order lists.  She began with very low prices and over
the first year, as folks got hooked on the convenience, raised the price to
be the same as the grocery.  She just has folks leave a check on the porch
and she drops off the order.

We have been selling only at the farmer's market and to restaurants and at
our little roadside stand so far.  I won't sell my produce through her
delivery service.  I want my customers to not have to pay the higher price
and I won't receive a cut in my price.  But this year we are keeping records
very carefully to determine how many shares we will sell next year.  Many
people approach us about the CSA idea.   There is one on our island of 16,000
people that sells 10 shares each year.  It is a side line to her cut flower
business.  There is a big csa (150 shares I think) people drive to from here,
about 45 minutes away.  She has been at it for 5 years and plants 2 acres.

Good luck and keep us posted,  Suzy

