From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 2 20:12:42 2000 Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:12:42 -0500 (EST) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0921369867 0000001154 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 11:51:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17834 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:51:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17970 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:45:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08903; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:45:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08820 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:44:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from [209.8.149.174] [209.8.149.174] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A6B821F014A; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:47:52 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:47:52 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: Aria & Tyria Cucs: Worth the price? Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 Dori, I'm going just the opposite direction with my shareholders. While they are slowly learning that tomatoes aren't available in June, I'm finding that they also like the unusual. "What I liked most about the program was getting vegetables I had never seen before." was a comment that I got from more than one shareholder. So, while I'm not going crazy with the ground cherries, etc. I'm growing a little of the less common veggies to give them a thrill (or atleast a new experience). This, though, shouldn't detract from growing plenty of the basics that everyne loves to eat. (by the way, I now have a bunch of shareholders that consider tatsoi a basic, everyday, veggie). Leigh >It all, entirely, absolutely, depends on the market. I don't have a market >here for fancy cucumbers -- people are looking for corn (in June), tomatoes >(in June), and you guessed it, watermelons (in June). Lettuce is a slow mover >and broccoli raab is going to be a hard-sell this summer (but I like it so I'm >growing it). I'm doing a limited trial of Holland cukes because they _can_ >sell for $1 each and I happen to have some trellis space. > >If you're in an area with some 4-star restaurants, expensive caterers, etc., >those folks will appreciate the fancy veggies and will probably appreciate a >local source for them. But unless requested specifically by members, I >wouldn't go heavily into the fancies. > >Good grief, it's hard enough to get them to try tatsoi. > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 13:05:48 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18918 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:05:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA04036 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:59:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12402; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:58:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12321 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:57:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903131757.LAA12321@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 9561628; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:57:38 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "CSA List" Subject: "Pick-up Pointers" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:39:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 Hello all, I am working on my farm's rules for the coming year. We have never had rules before but we now feel it is time to let the community know what to expect when they arrive at the farm, what is expected of them and what they can expect from us, the farmers. Do you have anything in writing? I'd like to hear what some of them are and if your life on pick-up days has improved since you sent it out. JO Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:25:57 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18396 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22751 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:20:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25390; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:18:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25312 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:17:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp233.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.233]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA30836 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:17:13 -0500 Message-ID: <36E8A43D.F187AA4D@greatbridge.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:21:04 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Johnny's/Fedco/Stokes:newbie question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 Hello again, I have spent the last few months pouring over catalogs and books in preperation for starting my csa/market garden. I plan to start the csa next year. This year I intend to do some trials (hopefully) and maybe market some excess produce through a farmers market. Most of my literature leads me to three main sources for seeds: Johnny's, Fedco, and Stokes. I just got my Johnny's commercial catalog and sat down and did some comparing. I also placed a large (for me) order with Fedco earlier and have received it with no problems. Johnny's has the nicest, easiest to read catalog with the best info in my opinion and they also have the best selections. Fedco has substantially lower prices than either Johnny's or Stokes. So what does Stokes have? I am curious because I know they have a good reputation but, at the quantities I am looking at, their prices are not really competative and their selection is not exceptional. They charge for shipping (only $3.75 admittedly) and you have to order $700.00 to get a five percent discount. Johnny's gives 5% discount (2% for charge card orders) and free shipping for orders over $125.00 but adds a surcharge for heavy seeds of $.40/lb. Fedco has, far and away, the very best prices and discounts offering 20% for orders over $300.00 and 15% for orders over $200 cash, check or charge. Plus they give a 2% early bird discount. Consider this sample order. All quantities are the same with the exception of Big Beef (I had to do some averaging here because Stokes sells it by the 1000 count, Fedco by the gram and Johnny's by fractions of an ounce. For Stokes I used 2.23 X $10.83 (assuming 9000 seeds/ounce) for Johnny's I used their 1/4 ounce listed price. For Fedco I doubled their 4 gram price and multiplied that by .25/.282--8 gms=.282 ounce)). All varities are the same with the exception of fortex pole beans. Stokes does not carry them so I used emerite which seems comparable. The sample order consists of: Provider beans 5 lbs Fortex beans 2 lbs Marketmore 76 Cucumbers 1 ounce Sugar Ann Peas 1 pound Big Beef tomato 1/4 ounce equivalent and assumes that the total order would exceed $300.00 for Fedco and $125.00 for Johnny's. The total prices are: Stokes: 80.75 Johnny's: 83.45 Fedco: 52.00 (this includes the 2% early bird discount) This is not a good sample order for Johnny's because it includes a lot of heavy seed with the 40 cent/lb surcharge. Add Almira and Suhyo long cucs, walla walla onions and Sugar Snap peas to the above orders and Johnny's comes in at $109.75 and Fedco at $71.58 (order over $300.00 but no 2% early bird). Stokes does not carry these varities. I did not consider really large orders because I can't see myself ordering them but even the larger quantities seem to follow the same pattern: Johnny's and Stokes being roughly the same price while Fedco comes in much cheaper (always assuming a total order of at least $200.00 and preferably $300.00) . For example, 50 lbs of Provider Beans: Stokes $1.70/lb (does not include shipping which is only 3.75) Johnny's $2.25 (includes .40 shipping charge and takes into account 5% discount) Fedco $1.40/lb ($300+ order, early bird discount). one pound of Black Seeded Simpson might give a better idea of most prices because Johnny's would not charge a surcharge for weight: Stokes 16.65 (no discount) Johnny's 14.34 (with 5% discount) Fedco 10.00 (no discount) Fedco 7.80 ($300+ order, EBD) Fedco 8.30 ($200+ order, EBD) Stokes best price for Provider (if you are willing to buy 1000 pounds) is 1.22 or 1.15 (if your total order is over $2000), Fedco's is $1.33 (total order $1000.00, 2% EB discount), $2.25 is Johnny's best price according to their catalog but maybe they might give an additional discount for a very large order. Johnny's does much better in comparison to Stokes if you are not buying heavy seed. That $.40/lb weight charge really adds up and it is charged for beans, peas and corn. My sample orders are not complete orders by any means but any you you look at it Fedco's prices are significantly better than Stokes or Johnny's (unless you happen to need 1000 pounds of beans or comparable quantities of other seeds). Like I said earlier I placed an order with Fedco and it came without problems. They are very up front in their catalog about their company. They offer fewer services (no telephone orders, no pictures in their catalog etc...) in exchange for a better price which is fine for me. To save 35% I am willing to slog through their catalog and put in an hour or more filling out their order form. But I wonder if that is the only difference. Has anyone had any problems with them or their seeds? Is anyone out there a devotee of Stokes or Johnny's? Do they provide such better service that it's worth the price? I love Johnny's catalog and I have ordered from them (tools) and plan to order again. They carry many items that Fedco doesn't but I honestly can't see any reason to order from them in large quantities or from Stokes at all. What say you? Sorry for the long post. I tend to run things into the ground. Sasha From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:25:57 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18397 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:25:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22752 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:20:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25478; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:19:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25348 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:17:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp233.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.233]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA30841 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:17:38 -0500 Message-ID: <36E8A45A.F7B3025B@greatbridge.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:21:30 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Aria & Tyria Cucs: Worth the price? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 Hi all I just got Johhny's commercial catalog and they have two varities of Cucumbers with knock your socks off prices. Aria: at roughly 50 cents per seed and Tyria at roughly 70 cents per seed. They also list Amira which is another "Beit Alpha" cucumber but much more reasonable; 1 ounce is $8.75 which comes to less than 1 cent per seed. Has anyone tried these? Are they really that wonderful? are Aria and Tyria noticeably better than Amira? I realize that one cucumber plant can produce a lot of cucumbers and even 50 or 70 cents probably won't add even a nickle to each cucubmer but you can't get 100% germination and any plant can die. It seems like an incredible price to me but I'm thinking of at least trying one. I would dearly like to hear from someone who has grown one of these varities thanks sasha From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 17:36:25 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21711 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09890 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24897; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:29:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24839 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:28:20 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dUILa18360 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:26:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9a6b9d0f.36eae606@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:26:14 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: "Pick-up Pointers" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 I've never gotten anywhere with rules but everybody has expressed appreciation for their "helpful hints". Go figure. ;-) Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 18:43:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22506 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:43:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24739 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:36:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA27418; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:34:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27327 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:33:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool013-max12.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.3.213]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA27205 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:33:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990313152553.00807520@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:25:53 -0800 To: From: Fred Chambers Subject: Seeking Boise, ID - BD/CSA/Market Garden In-Reply-To: <199903131757.LAA12321@firefly.prairienet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Hi y'all, I know I'm not supposed to do this, but can anyone recommend a petrochemical-free genetic-engineering-free farm in Idaho? More specifically, a farm near Boise? I need to find a supplier for a blind conference in mid-April. A lot of my friends who are blind are becoming much more health conscious, and they asked me to help hook them up with a local farmer. I requested a list by mail, but it hasn't arrived. We need to know how much to budget for the food, and what to plan on eating. Thanks, Fred FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 19:59:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA23163 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:59:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA13074 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:53:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01787; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:52:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01727 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:52:03 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dAFVa26924 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:51:19 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:51:19 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Baby Pictures Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 The list of today's scans is located at http://www.agrove.com/031399.html Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 22:51:34 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25331 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21030 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:45:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08758; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:44:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from whidbey.whidbey.com (ns.whidbey.com [204.94.52.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08672 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:43:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from [204.94.52.145] (b2-53-147.whidbey.com [204.94.53.147]) by whidbey.whidbey.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23171 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:40:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:40:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: To: From: Petersons family Subject: Rules, pick-up pointers Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 Below are the rules I send out with my letter and sign-up slips in February. These evolved over 5 years of CSA -subscription type. Since we both work other jobs, one on the mainland, we can't deal with people who don't show up for their veggies and want to come at odd times. So far only one person has been offended when I didn't offer to refund her $ or give her extra vegetables for a day she forgot to pick up. The baskets don't always come back each week, and I know several are sitting at one member's home this winter - but so far it's been better for me to not sweat the small stuff, and keep a few extra baskets around. If everyone flakes, I put the veggies in paper bags until I get my baskets back. They get the message. I'm interested in how other CSA's rules work. MOLLY'S ISLAND GARDEN Here's how it works: By reserving a share you are committed to, and assured of, a whole season of fresh vegetables. Your basket will include a selection of those vegetables maturing each week. We try to include a variety and will share bounty with you if something is producing especially well. At the beginning of the season you choose which day each week you will pick up your vegetables: Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday. Long season available only on Saturday. This allows us to plan our picking for a known number of shares on each harvest day. You appear during the scheduled time period to take away your basket of food. You bring the empty basket back the next week and pick up the new full basket. If you can't come at the scheduled time, arrange for someone else (a friend, relative, neighbor) to pick up your vegetables. If you go on vacation arrange for someone else to pick up your vegetables . On the rare occasion you need to change days, call at least 24 hours ahead. It's important to come at the scheduled time so that your vegetables are at their peak. They wilt quickly on hot summer days. If you don't pick up the produce you ordered, I take it (the next morning when I go to my other job) to the low-income senior housing building where I work, and put it on the "free table." The vegetables disappear rapidly and the seniors are very appreciative of your donation. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 14:14:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16125 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:14:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA11626 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA09427; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:07:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09337 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:06:23 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dXYCa13170 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:03:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:03:51 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: New Farm Map Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 I did it! In between scrubbing these winter-grunged floors and playing with the new kids on their first day outside, I've finished the 1999 farm map and posted it on the website: http://www.agrove.com/99map01.html The details for each planting block (14 4'x50' raised beds in each) are at the pages corresponding to the block code, for instance 99mapA1.html 99mapD3.html Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 16:19:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA19682 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09439 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:13:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15493; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:12:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15426 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:11:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp168.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.168]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22424 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:11:27 -0500 Message-ID: <36EC26CD.CC30151D@greatbridge.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:14:54 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: In search of a Mentor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 Hello The though occured to me, that it would be incredibly helpful to get some first hand info from people who are actually doing now what I hope to be doing soon which is to have a small, organic CSA/market garden. So, is there anyone within, say, a four hour drive from Hampton Roads, Virginia that would be willing to have me (and probably my two kids) over for a day? Sort of show us what your doing and how. I would even go as far as eight hours if I can't find someone closer. I live in Chesapeake which is in the extreme southeast corner of Virginia; go ten miles east and you hit the Atlantic Ocean, 7 miles south is the border of North Carolina. If you think you might be able to host us but want to know more about me, drop an email. If anyone is looking to start an organic farm but isn't sure where, I feel that this area has a lot to recommend itself and would be happy to give you more info. thanks sasha sasha From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 16:27:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA19912 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA10850 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:19:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15988; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:18:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15942 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:18:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp168.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.168]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22607 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:18:25 -0500 Message-ID: <36EC2873.7A3F97B3@greatbridge.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:21:55 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Bats? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 hello, I have noticedt that several catalogs offer bat houses for sale but no one offers bats. Why not? If bats are that great, why not sell them like bees along with the bat house. Will they not stay? Also, are bats subsceptible to rabies? One time a bat got stuck in between the screen and my kitchen window. I can't say I was very happy about this. I finally nagged my husband into prying off the screen enough so it could leave. It didn't. After about two days we called the SPCA and they came and got it. The guy who came said it was probably sick or something. If they will cut down the mosquito population I am willing to get over my squeamishness but if they carry rabies or other disease, I don't want them around. sasha From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 22:04:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29898 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28110 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:58:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA03763; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:57:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03689 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:56:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29839; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06545; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:56:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:56:24 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Ben and Sasha Goldberg cc: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: In search of a Mentor In-Reply-To: <36EC26CD.CC30151D@greatbridge.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Ben and Sasha Goldberg wrote: > The though occured to me, that it would be incredibly helpful to get > some first hand info from people who are actually doing now what I hope > to be doing soon which is to have a small, organic CSA/market garden. > So, is there anyone within, say, a four hour drive from Hampton Roads, > Virginia that would be willing to have me (and probably my two kids) > over for a day? Sort of show us what your doing and how. I would even > go as far as eight hours if I can't find someone closer. I live in > Chesapeake which is in the extreme southeast corner of Virginia; go ten > miles east and you hit the Atlantic Ocean, 7 miles south is the border > of North Carolina. Thought this farm might be out of range for you this is still a good CSA contact in this region of the US: Harvey Harmon Sustenance Farm Walk Softly CSA Bear Creek, NC (about 40 miles West of Raleigh NC) 1-919-837-5805 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 23:17:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA02049 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01145 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:11:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA07588; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07521 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21331; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:10 -0800 (PST) From: Eliza Lindsay To: Ben and Sasha Goldberg cc: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: Seed companies:ethics in buying In-Reply-To: <36E98746.BF478054@greatbridge.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 Actually, I like Fedco and I like their philosophy but I have sometimes gotten far fewer seed than I was told I'd get. This is sometimes true of other places as well, fwiw. They also don't carry many of the flower varieties I want. :-) eliza From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 09:22:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17175 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22038 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27179; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:13:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27081 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:12:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903151412.IAA27081@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 168845787; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:12:22 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , Subject: Re: Bats? Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:53:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 My understanding of bats (admittedly not technical) is that they are clean and not particularly prone to rabies or other diseases. They DO eat tons of mosquitoes and will come to your bat house, if properly sited and constructed, of their own accord (though it may take some months for them to find you). Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: Bats? > Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 4:21 PM > > hello, > > I have noticedt that several catalogs offer bat houses for sale but no > one offers bats. Why not? If bats are that great, why not sell them > like bees along with the bat house. Will they not stay? Also, are bats > subsceptible to rabies? One time a bat got stuck in between the screen > and my kitchen window. I can't say I was very happy about this. I > finally nagged my husband into prying off the screen enough so it could > leave. It didn't. After about two days we called the SPCA and they > came and got it. The guy who came said it was probably sick or > something. If they will cut down the mosquito population I am willing > to get over my squeamishness but if they carry rabies or other disease, > I don't want them around. > > sasha > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 09:25:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17274 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:25:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22696 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:19:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27485; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:18:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from waddle.excite.com (waddle-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.222]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27362 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:17:14 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from scorch.excite.com ([199.172.152.240]) by waddle.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990315141645.QPAV16648.waddle@scorch.excite.com> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:16:45 -0800 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Bats? Message-Id: <921507405.12549.361@excite.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:16:45 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.151 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 Bats are wonderful animals. North america's only flying mammal. They eat their weight in mosquitos every night (moths too). There are only 7 species of bats in the US. The eastern brown Bat is the most common east of the rockies. They do not sell bats with bathouses because most are endangered and besides they are delicate mammals that would probably die if they had to be shipped. Yes they can carry rabies but this is not common. If you see a bat flying during the day it is most likely a young male that just got kicked out of the nest and is dazed and confused and not a rabid aniamal. Leave him be so he can find a new home (maybe a bat box). Bat Boxes are good for attracting bats but bats will not move right in. It takes them about 2 years to get used to the idea of a bat box but once they do get used to it they will use it. Old barns and shag bark hickorys will also attract bats. One of my favorite passtimes is sitting out back after a long hot day in the gardens and watch the bats come out at dusk. They are wonderful fliers. Sasha, get some bat boxes but don't expect them the first couple of years. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 13:13:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26482 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:13:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24745 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:07:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13521; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:03:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13445 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:03:14 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dPXMa20330 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:02:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9c1f74d8.36ed4b38@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:02:32 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bats? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 If it makes you feel better, call them "Night Swallows". We encourage them here. My Ex used to catch them in Pyrex jars so we could look at them close-up before releasing them outside. At the time we were living in a 200-year-old former stagecoach stop at the head of a 50-acre beaver lake. Having bats in the crawlspace above our second story apartment only became a problem because the new owners didn't clean it out when the bats moved out for the winter, and the guano accumulation became a health hazard for us after a couple of years. I sweep out my hayloft twice a year and designed my barn for easy access for bats and swallows, plus I've mounted bat houses in the upper sections of the lean-to on the west and north sides of the barn. PS -- they're ugly little critters but fascinating. PPS -- young CSA visitors at our bonfire/stargazing parties seem to be much more comfortable with "night swallows" than they would be with "bats". Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 06:46:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27566 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA20922 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:40:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10325; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:39:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from stinger.excite.com (stinger-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10278 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:38:31 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from canyon.excite.com ([199.172.152.178]) by stinger.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990316113801.FWZF11158.stinger@canyon.excite.com>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:38:01 -0800 To: BRateaver@aol.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Message-Id: <921584280.14169.320@excite.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:38:00 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.212 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 The reason I don't want to do delivery is a CSA is supposed to get folks back in touch with the land and the farm. If you deliver to them they will not come to farm at all. Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? I make most of my money doing markets and selling to co-ops. I do the CSA to try and educate. Yes, I have probably made it sound like a hassle and it is and most likely will be for a few more years as we and our members get used to this idea. We do not depend on members for real work , though we actually have 2 folks that have a lot of proffessional garden exp. but the rest do not and I realize what we are working a bunch of folks that probably do not even realize that seeds will produce plants. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 07:37:23 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA28585 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:37:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA29664 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA11917; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:30:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11850 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:29:28 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dUPTa18651 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:28:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:28:55 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 In a message dated 3/16/99 6:40:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, goodows@excite.com writes: << If you deliver to them they will not come to farm at all. Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? >> I figure that any connection is better than no connection, so I deliver to drop sites and include "newsletter" sheets with pictures, offer extra perks to those members who do come to the farm ("picked fresh while you wait", for instance). But my days of door-to-door delivery are done, I just don't have time for that. Building the connection can take quite a while. Human beings are naturally resistant to change, and back in the days of the ice ages that was A Good Thing -- it's why our ancestors learned to master fire and sew animal skins together to survive and ultimately produce us. When I remember to remember this, I don't have as much impatience with this tendency as I otherwise might, though it's still amazing to me just how thick some people can be. Life has been much easier for me since I decided that nobody needs fixing; "The beauty of the flower is sufficient unto itself." Heck, for some people just eating vegetables is a new adventure. I haven't had the favorable response I expected from the local Vegetarian Society, for instance, whose members seem to strongly resent my suggestion last year that if they're doing vegetarianism for their health but they're still ingesting pesticides and other poisons they aren't doing themselves any big favors. Seemed like an obvious and innocent enough statement to me. Like I said, thick. So any baby step in the Informed direction is a step in the right direction and I'll count each one as a success. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 08:40:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA00585 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:40:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA11835 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:34:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14557; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:32:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14444 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:31:22 -0600 (CST) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D5T8SLUD; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:31:02 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:25:57 -0500 Subject: Monsanto on NPR All things Considered tonight (3/16) at 5pm Message-ID: <19990316.082611.-431763.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Be sure and catch this one folks....Monsanto is going to explain how they wanted to 'end world hunger' and wound up becoming 'public enemy #1'. (the quotes are from NPR's teaser.) Happy Growing, Betsy Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 09:43:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01703 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:43:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24441 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:37:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18658; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:35:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18575; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:34:35 -0600 (CST) From: ChilcoteR@aol.com Received: from ChilcoteR@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 2BCa029811; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:22:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:22:52 EST To: mesa@hooked.net, csa-l@prairienet.org, csa-1@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Lauren, the CSA bounces back--could you forward this message? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 Please post the following on your list serve immediately. We wish to fill this position immediatley. ________ Farmer-Manager Position Laganza Farm is seeking an experienced farmer familiar with organic and preferably biodynamic methods to farm and further develop an existing 20-acre organic orchard and farm. Work can begin immediately. The farmer would also be involved in working with and servicing a CSA through networking in the nearby Temecula and Laguna Beach communities. Laganza farm, established in l989 and located in Aguanga in southern Riverside County, is CCOF and Demeter organic-certified; and in process of full demeter biodynamic certification. Some ll00 trees (more than 20 varieties of apple plus peach, pear, almond and cherry) and several hundred grape vines comprise the farm; a small vegetable garden with plans for expansion; and a one-acre field for vegetables with possibilities of expansion as well, and the orchard could also be expanded. The farm is a demonstration site and field station for the EOS Institute and Permaculture Institute of Southern California which conduct workshops in accordance with the implementation of their comprehensive permaculture plan which envisages an expanded vegetable and herb farming, and other projects. Two to four interns or apprendices are expected to work during the season. Housing is available on site, funds for food and living and for some farm investment are available through outside grants, but the livelihood of the farmer will ultimately be dependent on his/ her production and marketing through a CSA and existing wholesale and farmers markets. An application letter, resume of experience, and at least two references should be mailed to , Laganza Farm, c/o Eos Institute, Laguna Beach CA 92652. For more information call 949-497-2218 or 949-497-4401. We desire to fill this position immediately. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 10:02:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02059 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA27977 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:56:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20221; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:54:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20151 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:54:15 -0600 (CST) From: sbonney@iquest.net Received: (qmail 11651 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 14:54:14 -0000 Received: from laf-0000-16.iquest.net (HELO default) (204.95.254.176) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 14:54:14 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316100321.00a1c700@iquest.net> X-Sender: sbonney@iquest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:03:21 -0500 To: "CSA List" Subject: Solviva Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 I have just returned from the Ohio Ecological Food and Farming Association's annual conference where Anna Edey was a keynote speaker and workshop presenter. Wow! Her book, Solviva: How to Grow $500,000 on One Acre and Peace on Earth is fabulous and covers many of the subjects we often discuss: permaculture, wastewater management, greenhouse design, sustainable food production, energy capture, etc. Surprisingly, she doesn't incorporate fish into her system. There is plenty of brain food here, however, and presents opportunities for a four season CSA ion cold climates. Steve Steve Bonney, President Sustainable Earth a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through sustainable agriculture 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 11:30:57 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04574 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:30:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19774 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:25:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA27094; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:22:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from ic4.ithaca.edu (ic4.ithaca.edu [147.129.1.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27003 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:21:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from ithaca.edu (ic069163.ithaca.edu [147.129.69.163]) by ic4.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #30132) with ESMTP id <01J8W9UJJ43E001LQL@ic4.ithaca.edu> for CSA-L@prairienet.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:20:43 EST Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:23:03 -0500 From: Debbie Teeter Subject: Re: Delivering to Shareholders vs. Farm Pick-up, working shareholders To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Message-id: <36EE8567.84DF30E3@ithaca.edu> Organization: Ithaca College MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <921584280.14169.320@excite.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 We're lucky in that many of our shareholders live close enough to the farm that they prefer to pick-up here. We deliver to a downtown pick-up point for those who would find required farm pick-up a hardship. As an added incentive, we give a minimal discount ($10 for the season) to those who pick-up on the farm (on farm pick-ups are much easier for us, plus we save gas/wear & tear on the vehicle, so well worth discount). We are available at both pick-ups, so we get the same interaction with all shareholders. >From talking to other farmers, I gather many are quite a distance from their shareholders, and they really need to be delivering to strategic drop off points. This year we're trying something new - we're offering home delivery within a 5 mile radius of the farm or downtown for an additional $25 for the season. We just sort of pulled this figure out of the air, not really having much to base it on. This is something we've resisted, as we think the weekly contact at deliveries is very important, BUT, over the years (this is our 7th season), we've seen that for some folks the pick-ups can a real hardship. So far we've only had two folks sign-up for delivery, both long term shareholders - one with a chronic debilitating illness (& she only wants it delivered when she doesn't show up) and the other an older single woman who frequently works late and therefore misses the delivery. So at this point, it looks like this is a service that is really helpful for shareholders - at least for us. Also, both these folks live only a few blocks from the downtown delivery location. Our shareholders are not required to work, but receive a discount if the do. About 90% of our shareholders work, some for the enjoyment of the experience, others to reduce their costs. Our experience has been very good. We work WITH shareholders, ususally in teams of 2 or 4, showing them exactly what to do and keeping an eye on them in the beginning to correct any errors. They very quickly become adept at the task at hand, and are proud of their new skills and seem genuinely pleased when we hook them up with a newcomer & sort of put them "in charge" of that 2 person team. Over the years we've tried numerous strategies for scheduling workers. We started out with the start-of-the-year-rigid-schedule thing and it was a complete failure. Work times would roll around, it'd be raining, people had forgotten, what was sheduled to be done neded to be done a couple of days earlier, OR something WE wanted to do instead came up. What we do now is this: For work before deliveries start, we get on the phone not more than a week ahead and call a few shareholders, and that's all it usually takes to get the help we need when we want it, tell them what we need help with and when. After the season starts we do it by the week On farm and downtown folks pick-up on different days, so we can be very accurate about when we need help and for what. We add a notaion on our "What's in the Bag this Week" board what we're doing and when (in case it's a little hectic), then we ask working shareholders if the can make it. We have no problem with no shows, people call if it turns out they can't make it, and since you pretty much know what the weather's going to be like there are few weather problems. This works for us. In contrast to Dori's "potato nightmare", last spring we planted 500 pounds of potatoes and weeded and mulched the blueberries in one four hour work session with the help of 5 shareholders. The first two arrived, I sat with them in the shade of some sapings lining the garden and we began cutting up potatoes as Alan ran the tiller down the field with the hiller attachment. When we had a 5 gallon bucket ready, he started planting. Shortly thereafter another shareholder arrived, we had another 5 gallon bucket ready, so one of the cutters moved to planting with Alan and the new arrival started cutting (these 3 were all new working shareholders). A little while later the last two arrived, I left my by-now competent cutters to finish the task at hand, took the new comers (both returning working shareholders from the year before) to the blueberrries, showed them the plants, put one on one end of the row, the other a third of the way down, and me 2/3's down, and we all worked in the same direction. When we finished weeding, we went and shoveled mulch into the lawn tractor's tow-behind trailer, I drove it to the berry bushes, and we all shoveled them out. We made quite a few trips like this. Then we put tomato cages around the plants and were done. In the meantime, the cutters got ahead of the planters, so Alan took another one into the field, got them planting (which was just dropping the chunks into the trench at the desired spacing), let the planters continue while he finished tilling the trenches needed. By the time he was down with that, the cutter was done and moved to planting, with able direction from the two other planters. Alan starting covering the planted tomatoes. When the planters were done, Alan showed them how to cover, and with four people doing it the job was completed in no time. And, believe it or not, that is our typical working shareholder experience. Other things we do is have a "shareholder area" in our garage (it's a big garage), with tools, 5 gallon buckets, gloves and a sign-in sheet. We tell shareholders to come dressed appropriately, wear a hat and bring gloves if they have them. When they arrive, we start in that area, give them a little orientation if they're new, talk about what we're doing that day and decide what tools we need. Typically everybody gets a 5 gallon bucket, puts their preferred hand tools in it, and whatever else we might need (baling twine, drinking cups, etc) and out we go. The buckets are handy for lots of things in the garden: weeding into, hauling mulch, and make moving around with all your stuff easier. We ALWAYS provide a big insulated cooler of ice water or herbal caffine-free iced tea (usually the latter) and encourage folks to take drink breaks - we take them too! Finally, we have an outdoor wash stand for folks to clean up when they're finished (they're welcome to use our bathroom, too) the area is an old sink mounted on a scrap lumber frame draining into a 5 gallon bucket with the hose attached to the facet - very low-tech. One last thing: we encourage children in and around the garden. If they want to work, fine, if they want to play, that's okay too. Our experience is they do very little damage. If we have a child who's a little overactive and/or really needs to be physically close to their parents, we find a task that needs to be done on or near the edge of the garden. Our garden plots are mowed lawn on most sides. Whew! Hope folks find some of this helpful! Debbie Teeter A.J. Teeter Farm Ithaca NY goodows@excite.com wrote: > The reason I don't want to do delivery is a CSA is supposed to get folks > back in touch with the land and the farm. If you deliver to them they will > not come to farm at all. Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? > I make most of my money doing markets and selling to co-ops. I do the CSA to > try and educate. Yes, I have probably made it sound like a hassle and it is > and most likely will be for a few more years as we and our members get used > to this idea. > We do not depend on members for real work , though we actually have 2 folks > that have a lot of proffessional garden exp. but the rest do not and I > realize what we are working a bunch of folks that probably do not even > realize that seeds will produce plants. > Lucy Goodman-Owsley > Boulder Belt CSA > New Paris, OH > http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 12:13:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05452 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00854 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:07:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00385; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:05:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00307 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:04:56 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dZOIa18651 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:49:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <943a7499.36ee8b98@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:49:28 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 << Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? I make most of my money doing markets and selling to co-ops. I do the CSA to try and educate. >> Nice thread, loaded with many truths. As a parent with three school-age kids (6,8,&10) I don't have much extra time and patience to reach out to reluctant adults. It is imperative that my children "get it." I must develop a different approach for each as they are strongly individualistic. So I am in training to diversify my approach and recognize when I am offending people by the simple truths I've come to know. I used to be defensive when people would challenge my pricing at the market or complain of a flea beetle hole in their salad mix. But I've learned that these are really opportunities for the complainer to learn if I can phrase a response that informs them without insulting their values. We only have on farm pick up. CSA members and their families are rewarded for coming to the farm with u-pick opportunities for straw berries, blue berries, raspberries, etc. You know, those labor intensive fruits and extras we can't pick for the whole CSA. The u-picks have to pick some for the CSA as trade because we do have a number of people who are physically unable to collect their own. Yet these are the ones who come by and just sit, breathe deep, listen to the songs of the wind and genuinely "connect." They greet the other members, distract the two-year-olds and give my partner and I advice. Our greatest tool to getting people to the farm is the local Farmer's Market. When customers ask, "How come you don't have much asparagus anymore? Or Why do you run out of salad mix by 11:00am?" We just shrug our shoulders and say that the CSA gets first pick and some extras. This is what is left over this week. Our membership has grown without any other marketing from 20 the first year to 75 this year. The pick ups start in five weeks and we are full. My most favorite organic chemistry professor taught from the perspective of, "I've got a secret, and I hope you are clever enough to discover it for yourself!" Adults love competition. As a farmer, teacher, parent and partner I always reward effort with positive outcomes. Lucy and Dori are both correct. Its just that Dori is a couple of light years ahead of most of us. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 13:09:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07126 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:09:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14126 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:03:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07810; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:00:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from mom.hooked.net (root@mom.hooked.net [206.80.6.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07522 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:59:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from [206.169.227.230] (libya-230.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.230]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA19471; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903161759.JAA19471@mom.hooked.net> Subject: Fabulous Farm Manager position! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 99 10:01:44 -0800 x-sender: mesa@mail.hooked.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: "Lauren E. Augusta" To: "CSA member list" , "BDA" , "Sustag" , "Northeast Food Systems" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 ________ Farmer-Manager Position in So. California--- Laganza Farm is seeking an experienced farmer familiar with organic and preferably biodynamic methods to farm and further develop an existing 20-acre organic orchard and farm. Work can begin immediately. The farmer would also be involved in working with and servicing a CSA through networking in the nearby Temecula and Laguna Beach communities. Laganza farm, established in l989 and located in Aguanga in southern Riverside County, is CCOF and Demeter organic-certified; and in process of full demeter biodynamic certification. Some ll00 trees (more than 20 varieties of apple plus peach, pear, almond and cherry) and several hundred grape vines comprise the farm; a small vegetable garden with plans for expansion; and a one-acre field for vegetables with possibilities of expansion as well, and the orchard could also be expanded. The farm is a demonstration site and field station for the EOS Institute and Permaculture Institute of Southern California which conduct workshops in accordance with the implementation of their comprehensive permaculture plan which envisages an expanded vegetable and herb farming, and other projects. Two to four interns or apprendices are expected to work during the season. Housing is available on site, funds for food and living and for some farm investment are available through outside grants, but the livelihood of the farmer will ultimately be dependent on his/ her production and marketing through a CSA and existing wholesale and farmers markets. An application letter, resume of experience, and at least two references should be mailed to: Laganza Farm, c/o Eos Institute, Laguna Beach CA 92652. For more information call 949-497-2218 or 949-497-4401. We desire to fill this position immediately. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 16:27:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12770 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03880 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:21:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA26275; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:19:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25312 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:12:56 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dHYa016736 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:55:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8744e375.36eec554@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:55:48 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 In a message dated 3/16/99 12:06:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCook21809@aol.com writes: << Lucy and Dori are both correct. Its just that Dori is a couple of light years ahead of most of us. >> Say WHAT???? I'm just grubbing in the dirt like everybody else. Dori From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 17:59:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16249 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA00222 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:53:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02435; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:41:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com ([209.5.212.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02316 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:40:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp45.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.45]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA02584 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:40:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316173918.00854bb0@vaxxine.com> X-Sender: laura_s@vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:39:18 -0500 To: "CSA List" From: Laura Sabourin Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990316100321.00a1c700@iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Did you buy the book ? Does it have substance ? How much was it ? and where can one purchase it ? >workshop presenter. Wow! Her book, Solviva: How to Grow $500,000 on One >Acre and Peace on Earth is fabulous and covers many of the subjects we >often discuss: permaculture, wastewater management, greenhouse design, >sustainable food production, energy capture, etc. Surprisingly, she >doesn't incorporate fish into her system. There is plenty of brain food >here, however, and presents opportunities for a four season CSA ion cold >climates. >Steve >Steve Bonney, President >Sustainable Earth >a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through >sustainable agriculture >100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 >tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > > > Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net/ragenesq.htm R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 21:52:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21538 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:52:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29484 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA19710; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:40:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19605 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:39:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04532; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:39:09 -0700 Received: from localhost (egbelsey@localhost) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA180376; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:39:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:39:05 -0700 (MST) From: Eric Belsey To: B H cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Monsanto on NPR All things Considered tonight (3/16) at 5pm In-Reply-To: <19990316.082611.-431763.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 I was very disappointed by this piece... It seems NPR is permanently in the corner of AgBIZ. Shapiro was represented as a hunger activist which is absurd. Again, the general gist to me was, why are silly activists oopposing this wonderful new thing? The NPR reporter said that the European opposition to biotech crops "came out of nowhere last year" This too is a misrepresentation of the depth and length of our struggle against biotech crops. They also blamed the destruction of the Indian BT cotton crops by activists as "fear of the terminator technology," with no discussion of other reasons informed people oppose biotech crops. There was maybe one sentence where they listed some of the silly ideas that people who oppose this, like a English barber (an uneducated rube to be certain) Why not have some of the numerous scientists on to explain why Monsanto is considered a corporate criminal? SHOW WHAT YOU THINK OF NPR ON THIS AND THEIR COMPLICITY IN THE SILENCING OF MUMIA-ABU JAMAL AT PLEDGE TIME!!!! GIVE MONEY TO YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY RADIO AND PIRATE RADIO INSTEAD! peace--- EGB On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, B H wrote: > Be sure and catch this one folks....Monsanto is going to explain how they > wanted to 'end world hunger' and wound up becoming 'public enemy #1'. > (the quotes are from NPR's teaser.) > > Happy Growing, Betsy > Betsy Hultin > Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee > http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 > Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 22:14:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21870 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:14:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA05504 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:08:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA20637; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:56:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA20576 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:56:16 -0600 (CST) From: sbonney@iquest.net Received: (qmail 12504 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1999 02:56:12 -0000 Received: from laf-0000-26.iquest.net (HELO default) (204.95.254.186) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 1999 02:56:12 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316220521.00a1a340@iquest.net> X-Sender: sbonney@iquest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:05:21 -0500 To: "CSA List" Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990316173918.00854bb0@vaxxine.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990316100321.00a1c700@iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller scales of the model could be adapted. I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net Best, Steve Steve Bonney, President Sustainable Earth a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through sustainable agriculture 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 00:22:55 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA24296 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:22:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA01970 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA28913; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:02:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28814 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:01:45 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dXNAa10819 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:55:34 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:55:34 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Solviva Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 I've been obsessing over Solviva since I read it this winter. I got my copy from amason.com. The only criticism I have for the book is that the well designed systems require significant capital outlay. Much more than the average organic farmer could scrape together. But if a farmer is going to accumulate debt, this is the only debt that makes environmental and economical sense. It is a must read book! We must look to the stars to find the light. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 03:19:53 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA26018 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 03:19:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA03814 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 03:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA06989; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:11:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06918 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:10:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA11231; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:10:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:10:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: sbonney@iquest.net cc: CSA List Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990316220521.00a1a340@iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't > want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a > 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, > wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also > includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. > She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed > $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the > potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller > scales of the model could be adapted. > I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered > directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net > Best, > Steve > Steve Bonney, President > Sustainable Earth > a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through > sustainable agriculture > 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 > tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 08:17:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29297 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:17:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29510 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:11:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA13894; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:09:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13814 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:07:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp138.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.138]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11378 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:08:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990317080710.0084e100@vaxxine.com> X-Sender: laura_s@vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:07:10 -0500 To: From: Laura Sabourin Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990316220521.00a1a340@iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Dpes anyone know how much the book costs ? One good idea could make it worthwhile At 12:10 AM 3/17/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I >would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is >a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. >Michelle > >Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, >27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > > > > > >On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > >> I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't >> want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a >> 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, >> wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also >> includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. >> She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed >> $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the >> potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller >> scales of the model could be adapted. >> I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered >> directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net >> Best, >> Steve >> Steve Bonney, President >> Sustainable Earth >> a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through >> sustainable agriculture >> 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 >> tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net >> > > > Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net/ragenesq.htm R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:17:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00232 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:17:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13979 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:11:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA17024; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:08:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16967 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:08:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.217] [198.69.131.217] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A8371DE0098; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:12:07 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:12:09 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Leigh Hauter Subject: NPR and monsanto Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 I second Eric's comments about NPR and Monsanto. The nightly news vehicle, All Things Considered, should be looked at as the offical voice of state and corporate interests. We shouldn't expect anything else. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:34:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00534 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:34:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA19334 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:29:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18324; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:27:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail2.real.on.ca (mail2.real.on.ca [209.167.186.129]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18268 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:27:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from london.skyscape.net (pppD13.mco.net [209.167.186.33]) by mail2.real.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01520; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:26:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gelliott@london.skyscape.net) Message-ID: <36EFB9DA.600BD1EB@london.skyscape.net> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:19:06 -0500 From: Gary Elliott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michelle Y. Crawford" CC: sbonney@iquest.net, CSA List Subject: Re: Solviva References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 Michelle Might I gently suggest that what Anna Edey is doing is real life, her take on it. You say farming is a hard living, it is how you design it. I can use a spoon to weed my garden, or a hoe, or use a mulch. The amount of work I do, and the money I make, are determined, to a great extent, by my decisions. I see many workers, in farming and other businesses, who expand their work and their plan to the amount of time they allow for it. As for her book being misleading, please expand upon this. Regards Gary Elliott Sylvan Organic Farm Parkhill, Ontario "Michelle Y. Crawford" wrote: > I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I > would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is > a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. > Michelle > > Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, > 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > > > I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't > > want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a > > 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, > > wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also > > includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. > > She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed > > $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the > > potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller > > scales of the model could be adapted. > > I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered > > directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net > > Best, > > Steve > > Steve Bonney, President > > Sustainable Earth > > a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through > > sustainable agriculture > > 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 > > tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:49:08 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01043 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23171 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:43:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19309; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:41:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19251 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:41:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.217] [198.69.131.187] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AFEE7800DA; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:45:02 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:45:06 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: no deliveries Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 I was interested in the recent thread on not having deliveries and having only shares for people to come out to the farm, What are your thoughts on pollution and oil consumption? My shareholders live between 15 and 45 miles from the farm. Should each one of these people drive their cars out to the farm or should I drive my truck to them? The later is obviously more fuel effecient and environmentally friendly. The response that we should market our shares locally is a poor answer since there aren't enough people to support our program living within ten miles. Additionally, what of people living in the city? Should they only eat corporate vegetables? I know the solution is urban farming, but because of tax and zoning laws this isn't going to happen anytime soon. enough for this, I have to get out and put up fence. On another subject, does anyone have a good solution for keeping deer away from the vegetables? Last year, each method only worked for a couple weeks before the wilely wood rats figured it out and came after the greens again. Yesterday I saw 14 does in the woods on our drive. That's too many to shoot. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:49:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01056 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23311 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:43:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19408; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19364 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from [151.196.116.3] (client-151-196-116-3.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.3]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24366 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:41:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903171441.JAA24366@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:20:52 -0500 Subject: Request: CSA contacts in Switzerland From: "Steven McFadden" To: "CSA-L" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 Hi - A US reporter has contacted me seeking leads to CSA farms in Switzerland. She is planning a trip there in the Autumn, and wants to write something on the subject. If you have any contacts in Switzerland, or promising leads, please let me know by e-mail and I will forward the messages on to her. With thanks, Steven From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 11:47:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04345 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23069 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:41:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA02472; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:39:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from serval.noc.ucla.edu (serval.noc.ucla.edu [169.232.10.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02388 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:38:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from ucla.edu (davidk.biology.ucla.edu [128.97.133.15]) by serval.noc.ucla.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17876 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:38:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EFDB5C.F6CE5B2D@ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:05 -0800 From: David King X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA List Subject: How to Purchase the Solviva Book Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 Hi folks.... I wrote to the original poster and got the an email address regarding purchasing this book, here is the response for al who are interested: Dear David -- the Solviva book is available right from me. The fastest is to e-mail (solviva@vineyard.net) or phone in, (508) 693-3341, your Visa or Mastercard info and address, or you can send a check or money order to Anna Edey, RFD 1 Box 582, Vineyard Haven, MA 02568. I'll send it to you promptly upon payment by one method or another. The price is $35 plus $3.20 for mailing, total $38.20. Thanks and best wishes -- Anna Edey Sent as a help to the many who have written in requesting same... In other words, just trying to be helpful... peace & blessings, david From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 13:10:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07179 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:10:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13964 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09255; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:59:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from cronus.rockisland.com (root@cronus.rockisland.com [199.217.72.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09169 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:59:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from [199.217.72.89] (pm2-89.rockisland.com [199.217.72.89]) by cronus.rockisland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA25002 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:58:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903171758.JAA25002@cronus.rockisland.com> Subject: re NPR Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:52:45 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Lee Sturdivant To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id LAA09171 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 I think it might be a good idea to consider NPR as a medium that introduces a subject to certain segments of the country. Yes, they are becoming more establishment minded, but they also reach most people who are sick of the more commercial media. People we need to reach. Instead of just condemning them, I suggest we contact NPR and let them know how superficially they treated the Monsanto question. Perhaps contact special reporters played on NPR (Sci Fri, Ray Suarez, etc.) and supply them with better information. Their national web site is http://www.npr.org/ Mail Address is NPR 635 Mass. Ave NW Wash DC 200001 Tel 202-414-2000 Fax 202-414-3329 email to All Things considered is atc@npr.org I have found them fairly responsive - especially the local stations, which may be a better place to start. Lee Sturdivant San Juan Naturals Publishers of Bootstrap Guides From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 13:23:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07759 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA17000 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10976; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:15:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10892 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:15:03 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA20828; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:14:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-07.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.39) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020785; Wed Mar 17 12:13:57 1999 Message-ID: <017401be70a1$c0d0af60$55a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "CSA list" , "Leigh Hauter" Subject: Re: no deliveries Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:12:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Leigh wrote: >I was interested in the recent thread on not having deliveries and having >only shares for people to come out to the farm, What are your thoughts on >pollution and oil consumption? >My shareholders live between 15 and 45 miles from the farm. Should each one >of these people drive their cars out to the farm or should I drive my truck >to them? The later is obviously more fuel effecient and environmentally >friendly. The response that we should market our shares locally is a poor >answer since there aren't enough people to support our program living >within ten miles. > >Additionally, what of people living in the city? Should they only eat >corporate vegetables? I know the solution is urban farming, but because of >tax and zoning laws this isn't going to happen anytime soon. > Our farm is pick-up only (I have a but I'll get to in a minute) because thats what works for us. We also live in a town/area that is very suburban(we're a bit of an oasis) large population within 10 miles. There is a CSA in the next town that's biggest membership is closer to the "big" city Boston and they have some sort of delivery drop off sort of thing. Leigh you are right city people should be able to have a farmer connection, but it still would be nice if every one of them came to your farm at least once to actually see were there food comes from (thats just a personal opinion in that I think they'd enjoy it). My But I mentioned above, while I personally won't be delivering I see a potential for groups of members trading pick-up days so that each one only has to drive to the farm every few weeks. I haven't had anyone request this, but I did offer it to someone (a friend of one of my members) who lives about a 1/2 hour away. But a shared pick up still allows everyone to enjoy the farm. There just is not a wrong or right answer nor should their be, but its fun hearing everyones suggestions. Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 13:49:11 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08175 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23265 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13044; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:40:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12960 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:39:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA55916 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:39:37 -0700 Received: from holly.colostate.edu (grin-d.NSSL.ColoState.EDU [129.82.189.43]) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA170246 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:39:36 -0700 Message-ID: <36EFF813.E5185692@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:44:35 -0700 From: Eric Belsey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: re NPR References: <199903171758.JAA25002@cronus.rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 Lee Sturdivant wrote: > > I think it might be a good idea to consider NPR as a medium that > introduces a subject to certain segments of the country. Yes, they are > becoming more establishment minded, but they also reach most people who > are sick of the more commercial media. People we need to reach. Instead > of just condemning them, I suggest we contact NPR and let them know how > superficially they treated the Monsanto question. I respect Lee's very valid viewpoint on being less confrontational regarding NPR, I am just a bit cynical and feel that this route won't change much. In some ways NPR is more insidious than the mainstream media, because at least the mainstream media bows all the time directly to commercial interests without pretending too much that they are doing otherwise. NPR on the other hand plays a tiny violin and wrings out their hankies at pledge time about what an amazing unbiased "public" service they are providing, which is an outright lie. "Public" televison has the same credibility problems. The only public broadcasting I support is local radio (KGNU in Boulder) who doesn't use underwriters to pay the bill, but instead goes the very hard route of listener support. If you want to understand the issues of media self-censorship in service of corporate goals, including a good expose on the "unbiased" McNeil/Lehrer News Hour, and the forgotten US-sponsored genocide in East Timor I can not recommend more highly a film called Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media. to buy a copy, try this website: http://www.aigis.com/wl/orders.html to find the rare rental store that carries it: http://talene.home.texas.net/vid.htm enough on the media, who's farming? peace--- Eric Belsey From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 14:35:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09012 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:35:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05040 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:29:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA17178; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:27:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from xprt.net (root@xprt.net [209.102.124.20]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17092 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:27:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from peter (pdx-ppp73.pop1.net [209.102.125.123]) by xprt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA27908 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:27:20 -0800 Message-ID: <008601be70ac$56e31100$7b7d66d1@peter> From: "xprt" To: Subject: buying books and new CSA Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:28:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some places to buy Solviva, with prices...... http://acses6.acses.com/acsesbin/nph-det8.cgi?isbn=3D3D0966234901&idcode=3D= 3D=3D 54244&c ountry=3D3DUSA The best price is here: http://www.bigwords.com Just trying to be helpful to all. I am a new subscriber to this list.=20 Here in Portland Oregon we are working on buying 80 acres to create a CSA with community links to a specific Portland neighborhood. The land=20 can be reached by bicycle and bus by 20,000 urbanites. We have capital, but not a whole lot of farm experience. If anyone around our area is interested, let me know. And thanks to all = who post here - it's helpful to hear everyone's thoughts. Peter Michaelson ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Some places to buy Solviva, with prices......

http://acses6.acses.com/acsesbin/nph-det8.cgi?isbn=3D3D0= 966234901&idcode=3D3D=3D
54244&c
ountry=3D3DUSA

= The=20 best price is here:
http://www.bigwords.com

Just = trying to=20 be helpful to all.  I am a new subscriber to this list.
Here = in =20 Portland Oregon we are working on buying 80 acres to create a
CSA = with=20 community links to a specific Portland neighborhood.  The land =
can be=20 reached by bicycle and bus by 20,000 urbanites.

We have capital, = but not=20 a whole lot of farm experience.

If anyone around our area is = interested,=20 let me know.  And thanks to all
who post here - it's helpful to = hear=20 everyone's thoughts.

Peter Michaelson
------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 16:52:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12776 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:52:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09703 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:46:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA27253; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:44:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from peak.org (denisont@PEAK.ORG [198.68.22.17]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27188 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:43:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (denisont@localhost) by peak.org (8.8.5/8.6.7) with SMTP id NAA08500 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Denison X-Sender: denisont@kira To: csa Subject: Re: re NPR In-Reply-To: <199903171758.JAA25002@cronus.rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id PAA27190 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 Or better yet, contact NPR and suggest they do a story on the CSA movement in the USA? Elizabeth Kerle Denison Farms Corvallis, OR On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Lee Sturdivant wrote: > I think it might be a good idea to consider NPR as a medium that > introduces a subject to certain segments of the country. Yes, they are > becoming more establishment minded, but they also reach most people who > are sick of the more commercial media. People we need to reach. Instead > of just condemning them, I suggest we contact NPR and let them know how > superficially they treated the Monsanto question. Perhaps contact special > reporters played on NPR (Sci Fri, Ray Suarez, etc.) and supply them with > better information. > Their national web site is http://www.npr.org/ > Mail Address is NPR 635 Mass. Ave NW Wash DC 200001 > Tel 202-414-2000 > Fax 202-414-3329 > email to All Things considered is atc@npr.org > I have found them fairly responsive - especially the local stations, > which may be a better place to start. > Lee Sturdivant > > > > San Juan Naturals Publishers of Bootstrap Guides > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 17:09:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13166 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:09:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14053 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28602; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:02:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28523 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:01:48 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dZBEa04993 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:36 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: no deliveries Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 Wow Leigh, You really live in the country. It makes ecological sense to drive to drop of spots when you live away from your customer base. My comments are for an urban farm with all of the disadvantages of taxes, packs of dogs roaming at night and unsympathetic neighbors who sue us for farming activities. For example, 15% of our gross sales from the CSA go to property taxes alone. So it is happening, it just isn't easy. Different situations call for different solutions. My Grandmother always said, "Everyone goes crazy different." << I know the solution is urban farming, but because of tax and zoning laws this isn't going to happen anytime soon. >> But deer control is as easy as knowing what to feed them. We have a four ft high 5 stran (heavy gauge) electric fence on three sides of our double lot. I bait the fence with peanut butter hanging on hardware cloth from the fence. It has a very strong energizer that charges from 0 to 5,000 volts in 0.4 seconds and is off for a second. It has very low amperage so it cannot harm kids or livestock. But it sure gets everyone's attention when they hit it. The dear take the peanut butter in their mouth and receive an impressive jolt. The fence then becomes a psychological barrier. The deer must think that if the hors d' oeuvres are that bad the main course must be worse. I've seen them pacing along the fence drooling at my sugar snap peas just inside the fence. But they won't come in. Sometimes their fawns will hop through the fence and the parents go postal snorting and pawing their warnings to the little ones. But they don't come in after their offspring. Last summer they started jumping into our front yard where we only have a short cedar fence. That is when we started leaving our dog out at night to chase them and other dogs off the property. We do get a lot more sleep now. Plus the deer eat at our neighbors gardens which improves our business. Good luck, Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 18:05:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14452 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA29767 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:59:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02784; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02708 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:56:40 -0600 (CST) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dGSQa18832 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:51:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8540588c.36f031ea@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:51:22 EST To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Monsanto Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id QAA02709 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 I just read an EXCELLENT article that a friend had saved from the New York Times Magazine. It's a bit dated--October 25, 1998--but very illuminating and thoughtfully written, taking a look at different perspectives (conventional farmers, biotech/genetic engineers, organic farmers, consumers.) The writer's name is Michael Pollan and the title of the feature article is Playing God in the Garden "Monsanto trusts its genetically engineered potato to kill off the Colorado potato beetle. But whether humankind's enduring relationship to food crops is being imperiled by biotechnology is the big question." If anyone cares to search for this in the NYTimes archives, it's definitely worth the read. I'm sharing it with CSA members at our organizers meeting tonight.... —Heidi Lewis From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 20:28:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17681 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:28:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA16390 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:22:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA12633; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:21:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12573 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:20:18 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dGWKa04982 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:17:19 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:17:19 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Deer Control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 My Pyrenees/Maremma LGD (livestock guardian dog) is doing a great job of keeping the deer down on their own side of the hill. The goats have taught him just how to move a ruminant without chasing it -- and taught him at an early age not to chase (all it took was one ornery mom goat with no patience and not much liking for dogs to begin with). My neighbors have warned me that if they ever see him running deer they'll shoot him. Can't say much to that except "Well, if you have to do that please let me know what happened to him." So far everybody's been able to co-exist, and despite having a veritable deer highway in my little valley I've had no trouble. Note that I've left half of the farm as a wildlife refuge and deer highway -- they have their half, I have mine. I also drum in the orchard during the full moon and sing to the deer and remind them that one way or another I need to get a harvest off these fields -- beans and corn or venison, their choice. Didn't get either one of these ideas from Cornell, but for me they seem to be working. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 21:42:17 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18990 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:42:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06476 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:36:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16713; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:34:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16634 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:33:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.217] [209.8.149.180] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A6B913B013C; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:36:41 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-as