From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 2 20:12:42 2000 Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:12:42 -0500 (EST) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0921369867 0000001154 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 11:51:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17834 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:51:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17970 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:45:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08903; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:45:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08820 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:44:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from [209.8.149.174] [209.8.149.174] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A6B821F014A; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:47:52 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:47:52 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: Aria & Tyria Cucs: Worth the price? Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 Dori, I'm going just the opposite direction with my shareholders. While they are slowly learning that tomatoes aren't available in June, I'm finding that they also like the unusual. "What I liked most about the program was getting vegetables I had never seen before." was a comment that I got from more than one shareholder. So, while I'm not going crazy with the ground cherries, etc. I'm growing a little of the less common veggies to give them a thrill (or atleast a new experience). This, though, shouldn't detract from growing plenty of the basics that everyne loves to eat. (by the way, I now have a bunch of shareholders that consider tatsoi a basic, everyday, veggie). Leigh >It all, entirely, absolutely, depends on the market. I don't have a market >here for fancy cucumbers -- people are looking for corn (in June), tomatoes >(in June), and you guessed it, watermelons (in June). Lettuce is a slow mover >and broccoli raab is going to be a hard-sell this summer (but I like it so I'm >growing it). I'm doing a limited trial of Holland cukes because they _can_ >sell for $1 each and I happen to have some trellis space. > >If you're in an area with some 4-star restaurants, expensive caterers, etc., >those folks will appreciate the fancy veggies and will probably appreciate a >local source for them. But unless requested specifically by members, I >wouldn't go heavily into the fancies. > >Good grief, it's hard enough to get them to try tatsoi. > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 13:05:48 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18918 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:05:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA04036 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:59:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12402; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:58:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12321 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:57:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903131757.LAA12321@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 9561628; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:57:38 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "CSA List" Subject: "Pick-up Pointers" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:39:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 Hello all, I am working on my farm's rules for the coming year. We have never had rules before but we now feel it is time to let the community know what to expect when they arrive at the farm, what is expected of them and what they can expect from us, the farmers. Do you have anything in writing? I'd like to hear what some of them are and if your life on pick-up days has improved since you sent it out. JO Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:25:57 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18396 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22751 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:20:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25390; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:18:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25312 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:17:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp233.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.233]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA30836 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:17:13 -0500 Message-ID: <36E8A43D.F187AA4D@greatbridge.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:21:04 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Johnny's/Fedco/Stokes:newbie question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 Hello again, I have spent the last few months pouring over catalogs and books in preperation for starting my csa/market garden. I plan to start the csa next year. This year I intend to do some trials (hopefully) and maybe market some excess produce through a farmers market. Most of my literature leads me to three main sources for seeds: Johnny's, Fedco, and Stokes. I just got my Johnny's commercial catalog and sat down and did some comparing. I also placed a large (for me) order with Fedco earlier and have received it with no problems. Johnny's has the nicest, easiest to read catalog with the best info in my opinion and they also have the best selections. Fedco has substantially lower prices than either Johnny's or Stokes. So what does Stokes have? I am curious because I know they have a good reputation but, at the quantities I am looking at, their prices are not really competative and their selection is not exceptional. They charge for shipping (only $3.75 admittedly) and you have to order $700.00 to get a five percent discount. Johnny's gives 5% discount (2% for charge card orders) and free shipping for orders over $125.00 but adds a surcharge for heavy seeds of $.40/lb. Fedco has, far and away, the very best prices and discounts offering 20% for orders over $300.00 and 15% for orders over $200 cash, check or charge. Plus they give a 2% early bird discount. Consider this sample order. All quantities are the same with the exception of Big Beef (I had to do some averaging here because Stokes sells it by the 1000 count, Fedco by the gram and Johnny's by fractions of an ounce. For Stokes I used 2.23 X $10.83 (assuming 9000 seeds/ounce) for Johnny's I used their 1/4 ounce listed price. For Fedco I doubled their 4 gram price and multiplied that by .25/.282--8 gms=.282 ounce)). All varities are the same with the exception of fortex pole beans. Stokes does not carry them so I used emerite which seems comparable. The sample order consists of: Provider beans 5 lbs Fortex beans 2 lbs Marketmore 76 Cucumbers 1 ounce Sugar Ann Peas 1 pound Big Beef tomato 1/4 ounce equivalent and assumes that the total order would exceed $300.00 for Fedco and $125.00 for Johnny's. The total prices are: Stokes: 80.75 Johnny's: 83.45 Fedco: 52.00 (this includes the 2% early bird discount) This is not a good sample order for Johnny's because it includes a lot of heavy seed with the 40 cent/lb surcharge. Add Almira and Suhyo long cucs, walla walla onions and Sugar Snap peas to the above orders and Johnny's comes in at $109.75 and Fedco at $71.58 (order over $300.00 but no 2% early bird). Stokes does not carry these varities. I did not consider really large orders because I can't see myself ordering them but even the larger quantities seem to follow the same pattern: Johnny's and Stokes being roughly the same price while Fedco comes in much cheaper (always assuming a total order of at least $200.00 and preferably $300.00) . For example, 50 lbs of Provider Beans: Stokes $1.70/lb (does not include shipping which is only 3.75) Johnny's $2.25 (includes .40 shipping charge and takes into account 5% discount) Fedco $1.40/lb ($300+ order, early bird discount). one pound of Black Seeded Simpson might give a better idea of most prices because Johnny's would not charge a surcharge for weight: Stokes 16.65 (no discount) Johnny's 14.34 (with 5% discount) Fedco 10.00 (no discount) Fedco 7.80 ($300+ order, EBD) Fedco 8.30 ($200+ order, EBD) Stokes best price for Provider (if you are willing to buy 1000 pounds) is 1.22 or 1.15 (if your total order is over $2000), Fedco's is $1.33 (total order $1000.00, 2% EB discount), $2.25 is Johnny's best price according to their catalog but maybe they might give an additional discount for a very large order. Johnny's does much better in comparison to Stokes if you are not buying heavy seed. That $.40/lb weight charge really adds up and it is charged for beans, peas and corn. My sample orders are not complete orders by any means but any you you look at it Fedco's prices are significantly better than Stokes or Johnny's (unless you happen to need 1000 pounds of beans or comparable quantities of other seeds). Like I said earlier I placed an order with Fedco and it came without problems. They are very up front in their catalog about their company. They offer fewer services (no telephone orders, no pictures in their catalog etc...) in exchange for a better price which is fine for me. To save 35% I am willing to slog through their catalog and put in an hour or more filling out their order form. But I wonder if that is the only difference. Has anyone had any problems with them or their seeds? Is anyone out there a devotee of Stokes or Johnny's? Do they provide such better service that it's worth the price? I love Johnny's catalog and I have ordered from them (tools) and plan to order again. They carry many items that Fedco doesn't but I honestly can't see any reason to order from them in large quantities or from Stokes at all. What say you? Sorry for the long post. I tend to run things into the ground. Sasha From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:25:57 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18397 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:25:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22752 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:20:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25478; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:19:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25348 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:17:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp233.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.233]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA30841 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:17:38 -0500 Message-ID: <36E8A45A.F7B3025B@greatbridge.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:21:30 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Aria & Tyria Cucs: Worth the price? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 Hi all I just got Johhny's commercial catalog and they have two varities of Cucumbers with knock your socks off prices. Aria: at roughly 50 cents per seed and Tyria at roughly 70 cents per seed. They also list Amira which is another "Beit Alpha" cucumber but much more reasonable; 1 ounce is $8.75 which comes to less than 1 cent per seed. Has anyone tried these? Are they really that wonderful? are Aria and Tyria noticeably better than Amira? I realize that one cucumber plant can produce a lot of cucumbers and even 50 or 70 cents probably won't add even a nickle to each cucubmer but you can't get 100% germination and any plant can die. It seems like an incredible price to me but I'm thinking of at least trying one. I would dearly like to hear from someone who has grown one of these varities thanks sasha From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 17:36:25 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21711 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09890 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24897; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:29:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24839 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:28:20 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dUILa18360 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:26:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9a6b9d0f.36eae606@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:26:14 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: "Pick-up Pointers" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 I've never gotten anywhere with rules but everybody has expressed appreciation for their "helpful hints". Go figure. ;-) Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 18:43:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22506 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:43:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24739 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:36:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA27418; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:34:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27327 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:33:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool013-max12.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.3.213]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA27205 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:33:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990313152553.00807520@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:25:53 -0800 To: From: Fred Chambers Subject: Seeking Boise, ID - BD/CSA/Market Garden In-Reply-To: <199903131757.LAA12321@firefly.prairienet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Hi y'all, I know I'm not supposed to do this, but can anyone recommend a petrochemical-free genetic-engineering-free farm in Idaho? More specifically, a farm near Boise? I need to find a supplier for a blind conference in mid-April. A lot of my friends who are blind are becoming much more health conscious, and they asked me to help hook them up with a local farmer. I requested a list by mail, but it hasn't arrived. We need to know how much to budget for the food, and what to plan on eating. Thanks, Fred FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 19:59:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA23163 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:59:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA13074 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:53:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01787; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:52:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01727 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:52:03 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dAFVa26924 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:51:19 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:51:19 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Baby Pictures Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 The list of today's scans is located at http://www.agrove.com/031399.html Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 22:51:34 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25331 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21030 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:45:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08758; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:44:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from whidbey.whidbey.com (ns.whidbey.com [204.94.52.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08672 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:43:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from [204.94.52.145] (b2-53-147.whidbey.com [204.94.53.147]) by whidbey.whidbey.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23171 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:40:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:40:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: To: From: Petersons family Subject: Rules, pick-up pointers Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 Below are the rules I send out with my letter and sign-up slips in February. These evolved over 5 years of CSA -subscription type. Since we both work other jobs, one on the mainland, we can't deal with people who don't show up for their veggies and want to come at odd times. So far only one person has been offended when I didn't offer to refund her $ or give her extra vegetables for a day she forgot to pick up. The baskets don't always come back each week, and I know several are sitting at one member's home this winter - but so far it's been better for me to not sweat the small stuff, and keep a few extra baskets around. If everyone flakes, I put the veggies in paper bags until I get my baskets back. They get the message. I'm interested in how other CSA's rules work. MOLLY'S ISLAND GARDEN Here's how it works: By reserving a share you are committed to, and assured of, a whole season of fresh vegetables. Your basket will include a selection of those vegetables maturing each week. We try to include a variety and will share bounty with you if something is producing especially well. At the beginning of the season you choose which day each week you will pick up your vegetables: Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday. Long season available only on Saturday. This allows us to plan our picking for a known number of shares on each harvest day. You appear during the scheduled time period to take away your basket of food. You bring the empty basket back the next week and pick up the new full basket. If you can't come at the scheduled time, arrange for someone else (a friend, relative, neighbor) to pick up your vegetables. If you go on vacation arrange for someone else to pick up your vegetables . On the rare occasion you need to change days, call at least 24 hours ahead. It's important to come at the scheduled time so that your vegetables are at their peak. They wilt quickly on hot summer days. If you don't pick up the produce you ordered, I take it (the next morning when I go to my other job) to the low-income senior housing building where I work, and put it on the "free table." The vegetables disappear rapidly and the seniors are very appreciative of your donation. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 14:14:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16125 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:14:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA11626 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA09427; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:07:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09337 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:06:23 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dXYCa13170 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:03:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:03:51 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: New Farm Map Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 I did it! In between scrubbing these winter-grunged floors and playing with the new kids on their first day outside, I've finished the 1999 farm map and posted it on the website: http://www.agrove.com/99map01.html The details for each planting block (14 4'x50' raised beds in each) are at the pages corresponding to the block code, for instance 99mapA1.html 99mapD3.html Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 16:19:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA19682 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09439 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:13:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15493; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:12:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15426 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:11:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp168.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.168]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22424 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:11:27 -0500 Message-ID: <36EC26CD.CC30151D@greatbridge.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:14:54 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: In search of a Mentor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 Hello The though occured to me, that it would be incredibly helpful to get some first hand info from people who are actually doing now what I hope to be doing soon which is to have a small, organic CSA/market garden. So, is there anyone within, say, a four hour drive from Hampton Roads, Virginia that would be willing to have me (and probably my two kids) over for a day? Sort of show us what your doing and how. I would even go as far as eight hours if I can't find someone closer. I live in Chesapeake which is in the extreme southeast corner of Virginia; go ten miles east and you hit the Atlantic Ocean, 7 miles south is the border of North Carolina. If you think you might be able to host us but want to know more about me, drop an email. If anyone is looking to start an organic farm but isn't sure where, I feel that this area has a lot to recommend itself and would be happy to give you more info. thanks sasha sasha From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 16:27:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA19912 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA10850 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:19:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15988; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:18:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15942 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:18:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp168.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.168]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22607 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:18:25 -0500 Message-ID: <36EC2873.7A3F97B3@greatbridge.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:21:55 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Bats? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 hello, I have noticedt that several catalogs offer bat houses for sale but no one offers bats. Why not? If bats are that great, why not sell them like bees along with the bat house. Will they not stay? Also, are bats subsceptible to rabies? One time a bat got stuck in between the screen and my kitchen window. I can't say I was very happy about this. I finally nagged my husband into prying off the screen enough so it could leave. It didn't. After about two days we called the SPCA and they came and got it. The guy who came said it was probably sick or something. If they will cut down the mosquito population I am willing to get over my squeamishness but if they carry rabies or other disease, I don't want them around. sasha From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 22:04:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29898 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28110 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:58:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA03763; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:57:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03689 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:56:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29839; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06545; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:56:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:56:24 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Ben and Sasha Goldberg cc: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: In search of a Mentor In-Reply-To: <36EC26CD.CC30151D@greatbridge.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Ben and Sasha Goldberg wrote: > The though occured to me, that it would be incredibly helpful to get > some first hand info from people who are actually doing now what I hope > to be doing soon which is to have a small, organic CSA/market garden. > So, is there anyone within, say, a four hour drive from Hampton Roads, > Virginia that would be willing to have me (and probably my two kids) > over for a day? Sort of show us what your doing and how. I would even > go as far as eight hours if I can't find someone closer. I live in > Chesapeake which is in the extreme southeast corner of Virginia; go ten > miles east and you hit the Atlantic Ocean, 7 miles south is the border > of North Carolina. Thought this farm might be out of range for you this is still a good CSA contact in this region of the US: Harvey Harmon Sustenance Farm Walk Softly CSA Bear Creek, NC (about 40 miles West of Raleigh NC) 1-919-837-5805 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 23:17:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA02049 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01145 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:11:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA07588; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07521 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21331; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:10 -0800 (PST) From: Eliza Lindsay To: Ben and Sasha Goldberg cc: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: Seed companies:ethics in buying In-Reply-To: <36E98746.BF478054@greatbridge.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 Actually, I like Fedco and I like their philosophy but I have sometimes gotten far fewer seed than I was told I'd get. This is sometimes true of other places as well, fwiw. They also don't carry many of the flower varieties I want. :-) eliza From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 09:22:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17175 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22038 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27179; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:13:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27081 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:12:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903151412.IAA27081@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 168845787; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:12:22 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , Subject: Re: Bats? Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:53:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 My understanding of bats (admittedly not technical) is that they are clean and not particularly prone to rabies or other diseases. They DO eat tons of mosquitoes and will come to your bat house, if properly sited and constructed, of their own accord (though it may take some months for them to find you). Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: Bats? > Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 4:21 PM > > hello, > > I have noticedt that several catalogs offer bat houses for sale but no > one offers bats. Why not? If bats are that great, why not sell them > like bees along with the bat house. Will they not stay? Also, are bats > subsceptible to rabies? One time a bat got stuck in between the screen > and my kitchen window. I can't say I was very happy about this. I > finally nagged my husband into prying off the screen enough so it could > leave. It didn't. After about two days we called the SPCA and they > came and got it. The guy who came said it was probably sick or > something. If they will cut down the mosquito population I am willing > to get over my squeamishness but if they carry rabies or other disease, > I don't want them around. > > sasha > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 09:25:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17274 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:25:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22696 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:19:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27485; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:18:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from waddle.excite.com (waddle-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.222]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27362 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:17:14 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from scorch.excite.com ([199.172.152.240]) by waddle.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990315141645.QPAV16648.waddle@scorch.excite.com> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:16:45 -0800 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Bats? Message-Id: <921507405.12549.361@excite.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:16:45 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.151 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 Bats are wonderful animals. North america's only flying mammal. They eat their weight in mosquitos every night (moths too). There are only 7 species of bats in the US. The eastern brown Bat is the most common east of the rockies. They do not sell bats with bathouses because most are endangered and besides they are delicate mammals that would probably die if they had to be shipped. Yes they can carry rabies but this is not common. If you see a bat flying during the day it is most likely a young male that just got kicked out of the nest and is dazed and confused and not a rabid aniamal. Leave him be so he can find a new home (maybe a bat box). Bat Boxes are good for attracting bats but bats will not move right in. It takes them about 2 years to get used to the idea of a bat box but once they do get used to it they will use it. Old barns and shag bark hickorys will also attract bats. One of my favorite passtimes is sitting out back after a long hot day in the gardens and watch the bats come out at dusk. They are wonderful fliers. Sasha, get some bat boxes but don't expect them the first couple of years. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 13:13:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26482 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:13:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24745 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:07:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13521; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:03:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13445 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:03:14 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dPXMa20330 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:02:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9c1f74d8.36ed4b38@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:02:32 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bats? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 If it makes you feel better, call them "Night Swallows". We encourage them here. My Ex used to catch them in Pyrex jars so we could look at them close-up before releasing them outside. At the time we were living in a 200-year-old former stagecoach stop at the head of a 50-acre beaver lake. Having bats in the crawlspace above our second story apartment only became a problem because the new owners didn't clean it out when the bats moved out for the winter, and the guano accumulation became a health hazard for us after a couple of years. I sweep out my hayloft twice a year and designed my barn for easy access for bats and swallows, plus I've mounted bat houses in the upper sections of the lean-to on the west and north sides of the barn. PS -- they're ugly little critters but fascinating. PPS -- young CSA visitors at our bonfire/stargazing parties seem to be much more comfortable with "night swallows" than they would be with "bats". Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 06:46:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27566 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA20922 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:40:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10325; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:39:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from stinger.excite.com (stinger-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10278 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:38:31 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from canyon.excite.com ([199.172.152.178]) by stinger.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990316113801.FWZF11158.stinger@canyon.excite.com>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:38:01 -0800 To: BRateaver@aol.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Message-Id: <921584280.14169.320@excite.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:38:00 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.212 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 The reason I don't want to do delivery is a CSA is supposed to get folks back in touch with the land and the farm. If you deliver to them they will not come to farm at all. Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? I make most of my money doing markets and selling to co-ops. I do the CSA to try and educate. Yes, I have probably made it sound like a hassle and it is and most likely will be for a few more years as we and our members get used to this idea. We do not depend on members for real work , though we actually have 2 folks that have a lot of proffessional garden exp. but the rest do not and I realize what we are working a bunch of folks that probably do not even realize that seeds will produce plants. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 07:37:23 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA28585 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:37:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA29664 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA11917; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:30:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11850 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:29:28 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dUPTa18651 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:28:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:28:55 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 In a message dated 3/16/99 6:40:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, goodows@excite.com writes: << If you deliver to them they will not come to farm at all. Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? >> I figure that any connection is better than no connection, so I deliver to drop sites and include "newsletter" sheets with pictures, offer extra perks to those members who do come to the farm ("picked fresh while you wait", for instance). But my days of door-to-door delivery are done, I just don't have time for that. Building the connection can take quite a while. Human beings are naturally resistant to change, and back in the days of the ice ages that was A Good Thing -- it's why our ancestors learned to master fire and sew animal skins together to survive and ultimately produce us. When I remember to remember this, I don't have as much impatience with this tendency as I otherwise might, though it's still amazing to me just how thick some people can be. Life has been much easier for me since I decided that nobody needs fixing; "The beauty of the flower is sufficient unto itself." Heck, for some people just eating vegetables is a new adventure. I haven't had the favorable response I expected from the local Vegetarian Society, for instance, whose members seem to strongly resent my suggestion last year that if they're doing vegetarianism for their health but they're still ingesting pesticides and other poisons they aren't doing themselves any big favors. Seemed like an obvious and innocent enough statement to me. Like I said, thick. So any baby step in the Informed direction is a step in the right direction and I'll count each one as a success. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 08:40:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA00585 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:40:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA11835 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:34:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14557; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:32:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14444 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:31:22 -0600 (CST) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D5T8SLUD; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:31:02 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:25:57 -0500 Subject: Monsanto on NPR All things Considered tonight (3/16) at 5pm Message-ID: <19990316.082611.-431763.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Be sure and catch this one folks....Monsanto is going to explain how they wanted to 'end world hunger' and wound up becoming 'public enemy #1'. (the quotes are from NPR's teaser.) Happy Growing, Betsy Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 09:43:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01703 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:43:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24441 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:37:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18658; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:35:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18575; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:34:35 -0600 (CST) From: ChilcoteR@aol.com Received: from ChilcoteR@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 2BCa029811; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:22:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:22:52 EST To: mesa@hooked.net, csa-l@prairienet.org, csa-1@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Lauren, the CSA bounces back--could you forward this message? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 Please post the following on your list serve immediately. We wish to fill this position immediatley. ________ Farmer-Manager Position Laganza Farm is seeking an experienced farmer familiar with organic and preferably biodynamic methods to farm and further develop an existing 20-acre organic orchard and farm. Work can begin immediately. The farmer would also be involved in working with and servicing a CSA through networking in the nearby Temecula and Laguna Beach communities. Laganza farm, established in l989 and located in Aguanga in southern Riverside County, is CCOF and Demeter organic-certified; and in process of full demeter biodynamic certification. Some ll00 trees (more than 20 varieties of apple plus peach, pear, almond and cherry) and several hundred grape vines comprise the farm; a small vegetable garden with plans for expansion; and a one-acre field for vegetables with possibilities of expansion as well, and the orchard could also be expanded. The farm is a demonstration site and field station for the EOS Institute and Permaculture Institute of Southern California which conduct workshops in accordance with the implementation of their comprehensive permaculture plan which envisages an expanded vegetable and herb farming, and other projects. Two to four interns or apprendices are expected to work during the season. Housing is available on site, funds for food and living and for some farm investment are available through outside grants, but the livelihood of the farmer will ultimately be dependent on his/ her production and marketing through a CSA and existing wholesale and farmers markets. An application letter, resume of experience, and at least two references should be mailed to , Laganza Farm, c/o Eos Institute, Laguna Beach CA 92652. For more information call 949-497-2218 or 949-497-4401. We desire to fill this position immediately. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 10:02:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02059 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA27977 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:56:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20221; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:54:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20151 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:54:15 -0600 (CST) From: sbonney@iquest.net Received: (qmail 11651 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 14:54:14 -0000 Received: from laf-0000-16.iquest.net (HELO default) (204.95.254.176) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 14:54:14 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316100321.00a1c700@iquest.net> X-Sender: sbonney@iquest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:03:21 -0500 To: "CSA List" Subject: Solviva Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 I have just returned from the Ohio Ecological Food and Farming Association's annual conference where Anna Edey was a keynote speaker and workshop presenter. Wow! Her book, Solviva: How to Grow $500,000 on One Acre and Peace on Earth is fabulous and covers many of the subjects we often discuss: permaculture, wastewater management, greenhouse design, sustainable food production, energy capture, etc. Surprisingly, she doesn't incorporate fish into her system. There is plenty of brain food here, however, and presents opportunities for a four season CSA ion cold climates. Steve Steve Bonney, President Sustainable Earth a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through sustainable agriculture 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 11:30:57 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04574 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:30:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19774 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:25:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA27094; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:22:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from ic4.ithaca.edu (ic4.ithaca.edu [147.129.1.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27003 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:21:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from ithaca.edu (ic069163.ithaca.edu [147.129.69.163]) by ic4.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #30132) with ESMTP id <01J8W9UJJ43E001LQL@ic4.ithaca.edu> for CSA-L@prairienet.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:20:43 EST Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:23:03 -0500 From: Debbie Teeter Subject: Re: Delivering to Shareholders vs. Farm Pick-up, working shareholders To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Message-id: <36EE8567.84DF30E3@ithaca.edu> Organization: Ithaca College MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <921584280.14169.320@excite.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 We're lucky in that many of our shareholders live close enough to the farm that they prefer to pick-up here. We deliver to a downtown pick-up point for those who would find required farm pick-up a hardship. As an added incentive, we give a minimal discount ($10 for the season) to those who pick-up on the farm (on farm pick-ups are much easier for us, plus we save gas/wear & tear on the vehicle, so well worth discount). We are available at both pick-ups, so we get the same interaction with all shareholders. >From talking to other farmers, I gather many are quite a distance from their shareholders, and they really need to be delivering to strategic drop off points. This year we're trying something new - we're offering home delivery within a 5 mile radius of the farm or downtown for an additional $25 for the season. We just sort of pulled this figure out of the air, not really having much to base it on. This is something we've resisted, as we think the weekly contact at deliveries is very important, BUT, over the years (this is our 7th season), we've seen that for some folks the pick-ups can a real hardship. So far we've only had two folks sign-up for delivery, both long term shareholders - one with a chronic debilitating illness (& she only wants it delivered when she doesn't show up) and the other an older single woman who frequently works late and therefore misses the delivery. So at this point, it looks like this is a service that is really helpful for shareholders - at least for us. Also, both these folks live only a few blocks from the downtown delivery location. Our shareholders are not required to work, but receive a discount if the do. About 90% of our shareholders work, some for the enjoyment of the experience, others to reduce their costs. Our experience has been very good. We work WITH shareholders, ususally in teams of 2 or 4, showing them exactly what to do and keeping an eye on them in the beginning to correct any errors. They very quickly become adept at the task at hand, and are proud of their new skills and seem genuinely pleased when we hook them up with a newcomer & sort of put them "in charge" of that 2 person team. Over the years we've tried numerous strategies for scheduling workers. We started out with the start-of-the-year-rigid-schedule thing and it was a complete failure. Work times would roll around, it'd be raining, people had forgotten, what was sheduled to be done neded to be done a couple of days earlier, OR something WE wanted to do instead came up. What we do now is this: For work before deliveries start, we get on the phone not more than a week ahead and call a few shareholders, and that's all it usually takes to get the help we need when we want it, tell them what we need help with and when. After the season starts we do it by the week On farm and downtown folks pick-up on different days, so we can be very accurate about when we need help and for what. We add a notaion on our "What's in the Bag this Week" board what we're doing and when (in case it's a little hectic), then we ask working shareholders if the can make it. We have no problem with no shows, people call if it turns out they can't make it, and since you pretty much know what the weather's going to be like there are few weather problems. This works for us. In contrast to Dori's "potato nightmare", last spring we planted 500 pounds of potatoes and weeded and mulched the blueberries in one four hour work session with the help of 5 shareholders. The first two arrived, I sat with them in the shade of some sapings lining the garden and we began cutting up potatoes as Alan ran the tiller down the field with the hiller attachment. When we had a 5 gallon bucket ready, he started planting. Shortly thereafter another shareholder arrived, we had another 5 gallon bucket ready, so one of the cutters moved to planting with Alan and the new arrival started cutting (these 3 were all new working shareholders). A little while later the last two arrived, I left my by-now competent cutters to finish the task at hand, took the new comers (both returning working shareholders from the year before) to the blueberrries, showed them the plants, put one on one end of the row, the other a third of the way down, and me 2/3's down, and we all worked in the same direction. When we finished weeding, we went and shoveled mulch into the lawn tractor's tow-behind trailer, I drove it to the berry bushes, and we all shoveled them out. We made quite a few trips like this. Then we put tomato cages around the plants and were done. In the meantime, the cutters got ahead of the planters, so Alan took another one into the field, got them planting (which was just dropping the chunks into the trench at the desired spacing), let the planters continue while he finished tilling the trenches needed. By the time he was down with that, the cutter was done and moved to planting, with able direction from the two other planters. Alan starting covering the planted tomatoes. When the planters were done, Alan showed them how to cover, and with four people doing it the job was completed in no time. And, believe it or not, that is our typical working shareholder experience. Other things we do is have a "shareholder area" in our garage (it's a big garage), with tools, 5 gallon buckets, gloves and a sign-in sheet. We tell shareholders to come dressed appropriately, wear a hat and bring gloves if they have them. When they arrive, we start in that area, give them a little orientation if they're new, talk about what we're doing that day and decide what tools we need. Typically everybody gets a 5 gallon bucket, puts their preferred hand tools in it, and whatever else we might need (baling twine, drinking cups, etc) and out we go. The buckets are handy for lots of things in the garden: weeding into, hauling mulch, and make moving around with all your stuff easier. We ALWAYS provide a big insulated cooler of ice water or herbal caffine-free iced tea (usually the latter) and encourage folks to take drink breaks - we take them too! Finally, we have an outdoor wash stand for folks to clean up when they're finished (they're welcome to use our bathroom, too) the area is an old sink mounted on a scrap lumber frame draining into a 5 gallon bucket with the hose attached to the facet - very low-tech. One last thing: we encourage children in and around the garden. If they want to work, fine, if they want to play, that's okay too. Our experience is they do very little damage. If we have a child who's a little overactive and/or really needs to be physically close to their parents, we find a task that needs to be done on or near the edge of the garden. Our garden plots are mowed lawn on most sides. Whew! Hope folks find some of this helpful! Debbie Teeter A.J. Teeter Farm Ithaca NY goodows@excite.com wrote: > The reason I don't want to do delivery is a CSA is supposed to get folks > back in touch with the land and the farm. If you deliver to them they will > not come to farm at all. Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? > I make most of my money doing markets and selling to co-ops. I do the CSA to > try and educate. Yes, I have probably made it sound like a hassle and it is > and most likely will be for a few more years as we and our members get used > to this idea. > We do not depend on members for real work , though we actually have 2 folks > that have a lot of proffessional garden exp. but the rest do not and I > realize what we are working a bunch of folks that probably do not even > realize that seeds will produce plants. > Lucy Goodman-Owsley > Boulder Belt CSA > New Paris, OH > http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 12:13:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05452 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00854 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:07:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00385; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:05:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00307 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:04:56 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dZOIa18651 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:49:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <943a7499.36ee8b98@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:49:28 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 << Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? I make most of my money doing markets and selling to co-ops. I do the CSA to try and educate. >> Nice thread, loaded with many truths. As a parent with three school-age kids (6,8,&10) I don't have much extra time and patience to reach out to reluctant adults. It is imperative that my children "get it." I must develop a different approach for each as they are strongly individualistic. So I am in training to diversify my approach and recognize when I am offending people by the simple truths I've come to know. I used to be defensive when people would challenge my pricing at the market or complain of a flea beetle hole in their salad mix. But I've learned that these are really opportunities for the complainer to learn if I can phrase a response that informs them without insulting their values. We only have on farm pick up. CSA members and their families are rewarded for coming to the farm with u-pick opportunities for straw berries, blue berries, raspberries, etc. You know, those labor intensive fruits and extras we can't pick for the whole CSA. The u-picks have to pick some for the CSA as trade because we do have a number of people who are physically unable to collect their own. Yet these are the ones who come by and just sit, breathe deep, listen to the songs of the wind and genuinely "connect." They greet the other members, distract the two-year-olds and give my partner and I advice. Our greatest tool to getting people to the farm is the local Farmer's Market. When customers ask, "How come you don't have much asparagus anymore? Or Why do you run out of salad mix by 11:00am?" We just shrug our shoulders and say that the CSA gets first pick and some extras. This is what is left over this week. Our membership has grown without any other marketing from 20 the first year to 75 this year. The pick ups start in five weeks and we are full. My most favorite organic chemistry professor taught from the perspective of, "I've got a secret, and I hope you are clever enough to discover it for yourself!" Adults love competition. As a farmer, teacher, parent and partner I always reward effort with positive outcomes. Lucy and Dori are both correct. Its just that Dori is a couple of light years ahead of most of us. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 13:09:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07126 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:09:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14126 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:03:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07810; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:00:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from mom.hooked.net (root@mom.hooked.net [206.80.6.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07522 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:59:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from [206.169.227.230] (libya-230.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.230]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA19471; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903161759.JAA19471@mom.hooked.net> Subject: Fabulous Farm Manager position! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 99 10:01:44 -0800 x-sender: mesa@mail.hooked.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: "Lauren E. Augusta" To: "CSA member list" , "BDA" , "Sustag" , "Northeast Food Systems" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 ________ Farmer-Manager Position in So. California--- Laganza Farm is seeking an experienced farmer familiar with organic and preferably biodynamic methods to farm and further develop an existing 20-acre organic orchard and farm. Work can begin immediately. The farmer would also be involved in working with and servicing a CSA through networking in the nearby Temecula and Laguna Beach communities. Laganza farm, established in l989 and located in Aguanga in southern Riverside County, is CCOF and Demeter organic-certified; and in process of full demeter biodynamic certification. Some ll00 trees (more than 20 varieties of apple plus peach, pear, almond and cherry) and several hundred grape vines comprise the farm; a small vegetable garden with plans for expansion; and a one-acre field for vegetables with possibilities of expansion as well, and the orchard could also be expanded. The farm is a demonstration site and field station for the EOS Institute and Permaculture Institute of Southern California which conduct workshops in accordance with the implementation of their comprehensive permaculture plan which envisages an expanded vegetable and herb farming, and other projects. Two to four interns or apprendices are expected to work during the season. Housing is available on site, funds for food and living and for some farm investment are available through outside grants, but the livelihood of the farmer will ultimately be dependent on his/ her production and marketing through a CSA and existing wholesale and farmers markets. An application letter, resume of experience, and at least two references should be mailed to: Laganza Farm, c/o Eos Institute, Laguna Beach CA 92652. For more information call 949-497-2218 or 949-497-4401. We desire to fill this position immediately. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 16:27:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12770 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03880 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:21:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA26275; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:19:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25312 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:12:56 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dHYa016736 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:55:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8744e375.36eec554@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:55:48 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 In a message dated 3/16/99 12:06:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCook21809@aol.com writes: << Lucy and Dori are both correct. Its just that Dori is a couple of light years ahead of most of us. >> Say WHAT???? I'm just grubbing in the dirt like everybody else. Dori From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 17:59:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16249 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA00222 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:53:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02435; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:41:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com ([209.5.212.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02316 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:40:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp45.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.45]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA02584 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:40:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316173918.00854bb0@vaxxine.com> X-Sender: laura_s@vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:39:18 -0500 To: "CSA List" From: Laura Sabourin Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990316100321.00a1c700@iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Did you buy the book ? Does it have substance ? How much was it ? and where can one purchase it ? >workshop presenter. Wow! Her book, Solviva: How to Grow $500,000 on One >Acre and Peace on Earth is fabulous and covers many of the subjects we >often discuss: permaculture, wastewater management, greenhouse design, >sustainable food production, energy capture, etc. Surprisingly, she >doesn't incorporate fish into her system. There is plenty of brain food >here, however, and presents opportunities for a four season CSA ion cold >climates. >Steve >Steve Bonney, President >Sustainable Earth >a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through >sustainable agriculture >100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 >tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > > > Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net/ragenesq.htm R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 21:52:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21538 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:52:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29484 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA19710; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:40:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19605 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:39:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04532; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:39:09 -0700 Received: from localhost (egbelsey@localhost) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA180376; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:39:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:39:05 -0700 (MST) From: Eric Belsey To: B H cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Monsanto on NPR All things Considered tonight (3/16) at 5pm In-Reply-To: <19990316.082611.-431763.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 I was very disappointed by this piece... It seems NPR is permanently in the corner of AgBIZ. Shapiro was represented as a hunger activist which is absurd. Again, the general gist to me was, why are silly activists oopposing this wonderful new thing? The NPR reporter said that the European opposition to biotech crops "came out of nowhere last year" This too is a misrepresentation of the depth and length of our struggle against biotech crops. They also blamed the destruction of the Indian BT cotton crops by activists as "fear of the terminator technology," with no discussion of other reasons informed people oppose biotech crops. There was maybe one sentence where they listed some of the silly ideas that people who oppose this, like a English barber (an uneducated rube to be certain) Why not have some of the numerous scientists on to explain why Monsanto is considered a corporate criminal? SHOW WHAT YOU THINK OF NPR ON THIS AND THEIR COMPLICITY IN THE SILENCING OF MUMIA-ABU JAMAL AT PLEDGE TIME!!!! GIVE MONEY TO YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY RADIO AND PIRATE RADIO INSTEAD! peace--- EGB On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, B H wrote: > Be sure and catch this one folks....Monsanto is going to explain how they > wanted to 'end world hunger' and wound up becoming 'public enemy #1'. > (the quotes are from NPR's teaser.) > > Happy Growing, Betsy > Betsy Hultin > Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee > http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 > Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 22:14:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21870 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:14:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA05504 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:08:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA20637; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:56:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA20576 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:56:16 -0600 (CST) From: sbonney@iquest.net Received: (qmail 12504 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1999 02:56:12 -0000 Received: from laf-0000-26.iquest.net (HELO default) (204.95.254.186) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 1999 02:56:12 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316220521.00a1a340@iquest.net> X-Sender: sbonney@iquest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:05:21 -0500 To: "CSA List" Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990316173918.00854bb0@vaxxine.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990316100321.00a1c700@iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller scales of the model could be adapted. I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net Best, Steve Steve Bonney, President Sustainable Earth a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through sustainable agriculture 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 00:22:55 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA24296 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:22:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA01970 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA28913; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:02:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28814 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:01:45 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dXNAa10819 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:55:34 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:55:34 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Solviva Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 I've been obsessing over Solviva since I read it this winter. I got my copy from amason.com. The only criticism I have for the book is that the well designed systems require significant capital outlay. Much more than the average organic farmer could scrape together. But if a farmer is going to accumulate debt, this is the only debt that makes environmental and economical sense. It is a must read book! We must look to the stars to find the light. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 03:19:53 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA26018 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 03:19:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA03814 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 03:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA06989; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:11:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06918 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:10:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA11231; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:10:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:10:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: sbonney@iquest.net cc: CSA List Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990316220521.00a1a340@iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't > want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a > 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, > wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also > includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. > She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed > $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the > potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller > scales of the model could be adapted. > I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered > directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net > Best, > Steve > Steve Bonney, President > Sustainable Earth > a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through > sustainable agriculture > 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 > tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 08:17:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29297 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:17:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29510 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:11:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA13894; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:09:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13814 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:07:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp138.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.138]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11378 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:08:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990317080710.0084e100@vaxxine.com> X-Sender: laura_s@vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:07:10 -0500 To: From: Laura Sabourin Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990316220521.00a1a340@iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Dpes anyone know how much the book costs ? One good idea could make it worthwhile At 12:10 AM 3/17/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I >would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is >a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. >Michelle > >Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, >27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > > > > > >On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > >> I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't >> want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a >> 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, >> wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also >> includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. >> She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed >> $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the >> potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller >> scales of the model could be adapted. >> I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered >> directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net >> Best, >> Steve >> Steve Bonney, President >> Sustainable Earth >> a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through >> sustainable agriculture >> 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 >> tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net >> > > > Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net/ragenesq.htm R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:17:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00232 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:17:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13979 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:11:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA17024; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:08:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16967 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:08:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.217] [198.69.131.217] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A8371DE0098; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:12:07 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:12:09 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Leigh Hauter Subject: NPR and monsanto Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 I second Eric's comments about NPR and Monsanto. The nightly news vehicle, All Things Considered, should be looked at as the offical voice of state and corporate interests. We shouldn't expect anything else. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:34:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00534 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:34:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA19334 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:29:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18324; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:27:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail2.real.on.ca (mail2.real.on.ca [209.167.186.129]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18268 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:27:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from london.skyscape.net (pppD13.mco.net [209.167.186.33]) by mail2.real.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01520; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:26:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gelliott@london.skyscape.net) Message-ID: <36EFB9DA.600BD1EB@london.skyscape.net> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:19:06 -0500 From: Gary Elliott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michelle Y. Crawford" CC: sbonney@iquest.net, CSA List Subject: Re: Solviva References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 Michelle Might I gently suggest that what Anna Edey is doing is real life, her take on it. You say farming is a hard living, it is how you design it. I can use a spoon to weed my garden, or a hoe, or use a mulch. The amount of work I do, and the money I make, are determined, to a great extent, by my decisions. I see many workers, in farming and other businesses, who expand their work and their plan to the amount of time they allow for it. As for her book being misleading, please expand upon this. Regards Gary Elliott Sylvan Organic Farm Parkhill, Ontario "Michelle Y. Crawford" wrote: > I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I > would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is > a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. > Michelle > > Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, > 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > > > I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't > > want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a > > 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, > > wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also > > includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. > > She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed > > $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the > > potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller > > scales of the model could be adapted. > > I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered > > directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net > > Best, > > Steve > > Steve Bonney, President > > Sustainable Earth > > a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through > > sustainable agriculture > > 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 > > tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:49:08 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01043 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23171 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:43:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19309; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:41:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19251 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:41:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.217] [198.69.131.187] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AFEE7800DA; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:45:02 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:45:06 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: no deliveries Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 I was interested in the recent thread on not having deliveries and having only shares for people to come out to the farm, What are your thoughts on pollution and oil consumption? My shareholders live between 15 and 45 miles from the farm. Should each one of these people drive their cars out to the farm or should I drive my truck to them? The later is obviously more fuel effecient and environmentally friendly. The response that we should market our shares locally is a poor answer since there aren't enough people to support our program living within ten miles. Additionally, what of people living in the city? Should they only eat corporate vegetables? I know the solution is urban farming, but because of tax and zoning laws this isn't going to happen anytime soon. enough for this, I have to get out and put up fence. On another subject, does anyone have a good solution for keeping deer away from the vegetables? Last year, each method only worked for a couple weeks before the wilely wood rats figured it out and came after the greens again. Yesterday I saw 14 does in the woods on our drive. That's too many to shoot. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:49:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01056 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23311 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:43:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19408; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19364 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from [151.196.116.3] (client-151-196-116-3.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.3]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24366 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:41:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903171441.JAA24366@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:20:52 -0500 Subject: Request: CSA contacts in Switzerland From: "Steven McFadden" To: "CSA-L" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 Hi - A US reporter has contacted me seeking leads to CSA farms in Switzerland. She is planning a trip there in the Autumn, and wants to write something on the subject. If you have any contacts in Switzerland, or promising leads, please let me know by e-mail and I will forward the messages on to her. With thanks, Steven From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 11:47:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04345 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23069 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:41:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA02472; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:39:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from serval.noc.ucla.edu (serval.noc.ucla.edu [169.232.10.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02388 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:38:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from ucla.edu (davidk.biology.ucla.edu [128.97.133.15]) by serval.noc.ucla.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17876 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:38:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EFDB5C.F6CE5B2D@ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:05 -0800 From: David King X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA List Subject: How to Purchase the Solviva Book Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 Hi folks.... I wrote to the original poster and got the an email address regarding purchasing this book, here is the response for al who are interested: Dear David -- the Solviva book is available right from me. The fastest is to e-mail (solviva@vineyard.net) or phone in, (508) 693-3341, your Visa or Mastercard info and address, or you can send a check or money order to Anna Edey, RFD 1 Box 582, Vineyard Haven, MA 02568. I'll send it to you promptly upon payment by one method or another. The price is $35 plus $3.20 for mailing, total $38.20. Thanks and best wishes -- Anna Edey Sent as a help to the many who have written in requesting same... In other words, just trying to be helpful... peace & blessings, david From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 13:10:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07179 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:10:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13964 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09255; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:59:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from cronus.rockisland.com (root@cronus.rockisland.com [199.217.72.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09169 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:59:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from [199.217.72.89] (pm2-89.rockisland.com [199.217.72.89]) by cronus.rockisland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA25002 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:58:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903171758.JAA25002@cronus.rockisland.com> Subject: re NPR Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:52:45 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Lee Sturdivant To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id LAA09171 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 I think it might be a good idea to consider NPR as a medium that introduces a subject to certain segments of the country. Yes, they are becoming more establishment minded, but they also reach most people who are sick of the more commercial media. People we need to reach. Instead of just condemning them, I suggest we contact NPR and let them know how superficially they treated the Monsanto question. Perhaps contact special reporters played on NPR (Sci Fri, Ray Suarez, etc.) and supply them with better information. Their national web site is http://www.npr.org/ Mail Address is NPR 635 Mass. Ave NW Wash DC 200001 Tel 202-414-2000 Fax 202-414-3329 email to All Things considered is atc@npr.org I have found them fairly responsive - especially the local stations, which may be a better place to start. Lee Sturdivant San Juan Naturals Publishers of Bootstrap Guides From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 13:23:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07759 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA17000 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10976; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:15:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10892 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:15:03 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA20828; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:14:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-07.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.39) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020785; Wed Mar 17 12:13:57 1999 Message-ID: <017401be70a1$c0d0af60$55a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "CSA list" , "Leigh Hauter" Subject: Re: no deliveries Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:12:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Leigh wrote: >I was interested in the recent thread on not having deliveries and having >only shares for people to come out to the farm, What are your thoughts on >pollution and oil consumption? >My shareholders live between 15 and 45 miles from the farm. Should each one >of these people drive their cars out to the farm or should I drive my truck >to them? The later is obviously more fuel effecient and environmentally >friendly. The response that we should market our shares locally is a poor >answer since there aren't enough people to support our program living >within ten miles. > >Additionally, what of people living in the city? Should they only eat >corporate vegetables? I know the solution is urban farming, but because of >tax and zoning laws this isn't going to happen anytime soon. > Our farm is pick-up only (I have a but I'll get to in a minute) because thats what works for us. We also live in a town/area that is very suburban(we're a bit of an oasis) large population within 10 miles. There is a CSA in the next town that's biggest membership is closer to the "big" city Boston and they have some sort of delivery drop off sort of thing. Leigh you are right city people should be able to have a farmer connection, but it still would be nice if every one of them came to your farm at least once to actually see were there food comes from (thats just a personal opinion in that I think they'd enjoy it). My But I mentioned above, while I personally won't be delivering I see a potential for groups of members trading pick-up days so that each one only has to drive to the farm every few weeks. I haven't had anyone request this, but I did offer it to someone (a friend of one of my members) who lives about a 1/2 hour away. But a shared pick up still allows everyone to enjoy the farm. There just is not a wrong or right answer nor should their be, but its fun hearing everyones suggestions. Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 13:49:11 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08175 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23265 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13044; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:40:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12960 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:39:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA55916 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:39:37 -0700 Received: from holly.colostate.edu (grin-d.NSSL.ColoState.EDU [129.82.189.43]) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA170246 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:39:36 -0700 Message-ID: <36EFF813.E5185692@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:44:35 -0700 From: Eric Belsey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: re NPR References: <199903171758.JAA25002@cronus.rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 Lee Sturdivant wrote: > > I think it might be a good idea to consider NPR as a medium that > introduces a subject to certain segments of the country. Yes, they are > becoming more establishment minded, but they also reach most people who > are sick of the more commercial media. People we need to reach. Instead > of just condemning them, I suggest we contact NPR and let them know how > superficially they treated the Monsanto question. I respect Lee's very valid viewpoint on being less confrontational regarding NPR, I am just a bit cynical and feel that this route won't change much. In some ways NPR is more insidious than the mainstream media, because at least the mainstream media bows all the time directly to commercial interests without pretending too much that they are doing otherwise. NPR on the other hand plays a tiny violin and wrings out their hankies at pledge time about what an amazing unbiased "public" service they are providing, which is an outright lie. "Public" televison has the same credibility problems. The only public broadcasting I support is local radio (KGNU in Boulder) who doesn't use underwriters to pay the bill, but instead goes the very hard route of listener support. If you want to understand the issues of media self-censorship in service of corporate goals, including a good expose on the "unbiased" McNeil/Lehrer News Hour, and the forgotten US-sponsored genocide in East Timor I can not recommend more highly a film called Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media. to buy a copy, try this website: http://www.aigis.com/wl/orders.html to find the rare rental store that carries it: http://talene.home.texas.net/vid.htm enough on the media, who's farming? peace--- Eric Belsey From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 14:35:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09012 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:35:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05040 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:29:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA17178; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:27:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from xprt.net (root@xprt.net [209.102.124.20]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17092 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:27:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from peter (pdx-ppp73.pop1.net [209.102.125.123]) by xprt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA27908 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:27:20 -0800 Message-ID: <008601be70ac$56e31100$7b7d66d1@peter> From: "xprt" To: Subject: buying books and new CSA Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:28:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some places to buy Solviva, with prices...... http://acses6.acses.com/acsesbin/nph-det8.cgi?isbn=3D3D0966234901&idcode=3D= 3D=3D 54244&c ountry=3D3DUSA The best price is here: http://www.bigwords.com Just trying to be helpful to all. I am a new subscriber to this list.=20 Here in Portland Oregon we are working on buying 80 acres to create a CSA with community links to a specific Portland neighborhood. The land=20 can be reached by bicycle and bus by 20,000 urbanites. We have capital, but not a whole lot of farm experience. If anyone around our area is interested, let me know. And thanks to all = who post here - it's helpful to hear everyone's thoughts. Peter Michaelson ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Some places to buy Solviva, with prices......

http://acses6.acses.com/acsesbin/nph-det8.cgi?isbn=3D3D0= 966234901&idcode=3D3D=3D
54244&c
ountry=3D3DUSA

= The=20 best price is here:
http://www.bigwords.com

Just = trying to=20 be helpful to all.  I am a new subscriber to this list.
Here = in =20 Portland Oregon we are working on buying 80 acres to create a
CSA = with=20 community links to a specific Portland neighborhood.  The land =
can be=20 reached by bicycle and bus by 20,000 urbanites.

We have capital, = but not=20 a whole lot of farm experience.

If anyone around our area is = interested,=20 let me know.  And thanks to all
who post here - it's helpful to = hear=20 everyone's thoughts.

Peter Michaelson
------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 16:52:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12776 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:52:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09703 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:46:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA27253; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:44:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from peak.org (denisont@PEAK.ORG [198.68.22.17]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27188 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:43:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (denisont@localhost) by peak.org (8.8.5/8.6.7) with SMTP id NAA08500 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Denison X-Sender: denisont@kira To: csa Subject: Re: re NPR In-Reply-To: <199903171758.JAA25002@cronus.rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id PAA27190 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 Or better yet, contact NPR and suggest they do a story on the CSA movement in the USA? Elizabeth Kerle Denison Farms Corvallis, OR On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Lee Sturdivant wrote: > I think it might be a good idea to consider NPR as a medium that > introduces a subject to certain segments of the country. Yes, they are > becoming more establishment minded, but they also reach most people who > are sick of the more commercial media. People we need to reach. Instead > of just condemning them, I suggest we contact NPR and let them know how > superficially they treated the Monsanto question. Perhaps contact special > reporters played on NPR (Sci Fri, Ray Suarez, etc.) and supply them with > better information. > Their national web site is http://www.npr.org/ > Mail Address is NPR 635 Mass. Ave NW Wash DC 200001 > Tel 202-414-2000 > Fax 202-414-3329 > email to All Things considered is atc@npr.org > I have found them fairly responsive - especially the local stations, > which may be a better place to start. > Lee Sturdivant > > > > San Juan Naturals Publishers of Bootstrap Guides > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 17:09:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13166 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:09:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14053 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28602; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:02:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28523 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:01:48 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dZBEa04993 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:36 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: no deliveries Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 Wow Leigh, You really live in the country. It makes ecological sense to drive to drop of spots when you live away from your customer base. My comments are for an urban farm with all of the disadvantages of taxes, packs of dogs roaming at night and unsympathetic neighbors who sue us for farming activities. For example, 15% of our gross sales from the CSA go to property taxes alone. So it is happening, it just isn't easy. Different situations call for different solutions. My Grandmother always said, "Everyone goes crazy different." << I know the solution is urban farming, but because of tax and zoning laws this isn't going to happen anytime soon. >> But deer control is as easy as knowing what to feed them. We have a four ft high 5 stran (heavy gauge) electric fence on three sides of our double lot. I bait the fence with peanut butter hanging on hardware cloth from the fence. It has a very strong energizer that charges from 0 to 5,000 volts in 0.4 seconds and is off for a second. It has very low amperage so it cannot harm kids or livestock. But it sure gets everyone's attention when they hit it. The dear take the peanut butter in their mouth and receive an impressive jolt. The fence then becomes a psychological barrier. The deer must think that if the hors d' oeuvres are that bad the main course must be worse. I've seen them pacing along the fence drooling at my sugar snap peas just inside the fence. But they won't come in. Sometimes their fawns will hop through the fence and the parents go postal snorting and pawing their warnings to the little ones. But they don't come in after their offspring. Last summer they started jumping into our front yard where we only have a short cedar fence. That is when we started leaving our dog out at night to chase them and other dogs off the property. We do get a lot more sleep now. Plus the deer eat at our neighbors gardens which improves our business. Good luck, Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 18:05:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14452 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA29767 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:59:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02784; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02708 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:56:40 -0600 (CST) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dGSQa18832 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:51:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8540588c.36f031ea@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:51:22 EST To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Monsanto Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id QAA02709 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 I just read an EXCELLENT article that a friend had saved from the New York Times Magazine. It's a bit dated--October 25, 1998--but very illuminating and thoughtfully written, taking a look at different perspectives (conventional farmers, biotech/genetic engineers, organic farmers, consumers.) The writer's name is Michael Pollan and the title of the feature article is Playing God in the Garden "Monsanto trusts its genetically engineered potato to kill off the Colorado potato beetle. But whether humankind's enduring relationship to food crops is being imperiled by biotechnology is the big question." If anyone cares to search for this in the NYTimes archives, it's definitely worth the read. I'm sharing it with CSA members at our organizers meeting tonight.... Heidi Lewis From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 20:28:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17681 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:28:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA16390 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:22:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA12633; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:21:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12573 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:20:18 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dGWKa04982 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:17:19 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:17:19 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Deer Control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 My Pyrenees/Maremma LGD (livestock guardian dog) is doing a great job of keeping the deer down on their own side of the hill. The goats have taught him just how to move a ruminant without chasing it -- and taught him at an early age not to chase (all it took was one ornery mom goat with no patience and not much liking for dogs to begin with). My neighbors have warned me that if they ever see him running deer they'll shoot him. Can't say much to that except "Well, if you have to do that please let me know what happened to him." So far everybody's been able to co-exist, and despite having a veritable deer highway in my little valley I've had no trouble. Note that I've left half of the farm as a wildlife refuge and deer highway -- they have their half, I have mine. I also drum in the orchard during the full moon and sing to the deer and remind them that one way or another I need to get a harvest off these fields -- beans and corn or venison, their choice. Didn't get either one of these ideas from Cornell, but for me they seem to be working. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 21:42:17 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18990 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:42:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06476 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:36:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16713; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:34:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16634 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:33:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.217] [209.8.149.180] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A6B913B013C; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:36:41 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:36:44 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: Deer Control Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 >My Pyrenees/Maremma LGD (livestock guardian dog) is doing a great job Actually, my Komondor does a fine job of keeping wild dogs, bobcats, foxes and other animals (humans included) away from the goats, chickens, cows, emus (why would anyone have an emu? Because it was given to them), peacocks and house. However keeping the deer out of all the land we're growing veggies on is probably too much to expect of him. Thanks for the idea of baiting the electric fence. I hadn't tried that and will. The fences of different heights or outward slanting fence are great ideas but the cost seems overly prohibitive for the area we're growing veggies on. The idea of meditating or whatever with the poor deer also seems a little too much. Which of the dozens of deer should I meditate with (Flossie, Mildred, Ruth Ann, or possibly Betty)? I am sure some of these deer don't even know each other. Did you know a deer covers about seven miles of country everyday (if that much land is available)? And with last year's drought, our farm must have looked like an oasis in the middle of a parched desert. I understand a deer wanting to eat our vegetables. We grow great vegetables. But, unfortunately, growing enough vegetables for us, our shareholders, and the deer would mean clearing more land, which would mean taking all of that forest food away from the animals that depend on it (you know -squirrels, raccoons, skunks, timber rattlers, etc.). It looks like a no-win situation to me. And from my point-of-view I hope it is the deer that lose. Last season I invited shareholders to come to our place and shoot deer - doe only. But, alas, most city people have lost the taste for venison. And personally, I would much rather eat a young kid (and I do) than a gamey deer. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 02:09:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA24111 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 02:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA05370 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 02:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA01336; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:01:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01261 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:00:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA02266; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:00:29 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:00:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Gary Elliott cc: sbonney@iquest.net, CSA List Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <36EFB9DA.600BD1EB@london.skyscape.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 I take your point. Thank you. Always there are better ways to approach things. M Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Gary Elliott wrote: > Michelle > > Might I gently suggest that what Anna Edey is doing is real life, her take on it. > You say farming is a hard living, it is how you design it. I can use a spoon to > weed my garden, or a hoe, or use a mulch. The amount of work I do, and the money I > make, are determined, to a great extent, by my decisions. I see many workers, in > farming and other businesses, who expand their work and their plan to the amount of > time they allow for it. > > As for her book being misleading, please expand upon this. > > Regards > Gary Elliott > Sylvan Organic Farm > Parkhill, Ontario > > "Michelle Y. Crawford" wrote: > > > I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I > > would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is > > a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. > > Michelle > > > > Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, > > 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > > > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > > > > > I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't > > > want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a > > > 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, > > > wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also > > > includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. > > > She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed > > > $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the > > > potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller > > > scales of the model could be adapted. > > > I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered > > > directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net > > > Best, > > > Steve > > > Steve Bonney, President > > > Sustainable Earth > > > a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through > > > sustainable agriculture > > > 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 > > > tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 06:10:28 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA25943 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:10:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA23097 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:04:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA06289; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:58:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from ramses.lu.se (ramses.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06240 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:58:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (luetnfs.etn.lu.se [130.235.150.159]) by ramses.lu.se (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA24514 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:59:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from LUETNFS/SpoolDir by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.21); 18 Mar 99 12:10:01 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUETNFS (Mercury 1.30); 18 Mar 99 12:09:37 +0100 Received: from humecol.lu.se by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.30) with ESMTP; 18 Mar 99 12:09:34 +0100 Message-ID: <36F0DA0A.EEDFAB24@humecol.lu.se> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:48:42 +0100 From: Folke =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: add Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id EAA06241 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 I would like to be added to your mailing list. FG -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Folke Gnther +46 (0)46/ 14 14 29 el. +46 (0)46/222 36 98. Kollegievgen 19, 224 73 Lund, Sweden URL: http://www.humecol.lu.se/~folke_g/folkegsv.htm --- Thou Shalt not Cultivate High Power - because Error and Destruction are Its Evil Companions From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 07:09:30 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26509 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:09:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA02382 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:03:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA07766; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:01:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07705 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:00:28 -0600 (CST) From: STannehill@aol.com Received: from STannehill@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dISOa17110 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:59:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3ef44930.36f0eabb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:59:55 EST To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 Sorry if someone else has posted this, but our farm is 40 miles outside of Buffalo and about 30 from Rochester. We set up distribution groups.... I plot people on a map, "hire" ($100.00 discount off your share) a distribution coordinator from the "neighborhoods" I've plotted, then get all those people together with the coordinator, who signs them up to come out to the farm once or twice during the season to pick up for their neighborhood. We use groups of 10-15 families. It works well, except when the family of four comes out in their CIVIC, forgetting that they need to have room for 15 people's groceries. Obviously, this saves on resources, because we don't have 185 families driving out to the farm every week! Cheers, Sue Tannehill computer geek for Porter Farms CSA Elba, NY From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 09:26:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28225 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:26:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29129 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA14046; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:18:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA13979 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:18:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903181418.IAA13979@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 428431712; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:18:48 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: Subject: Re: Deer Control Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:53:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 When our dog falls behind on deer patrol we pitch a tent in the area where the deer come in and camp out for a couple of nights. The dog gets re-oriented to the chase and the deer are very upset by human presence in "their" territory. This seems to help for at least several weeks. We have had some success with perfume: tie rags into tree branches or posts here and there around the perimeter and douse with the stickiest perfume you can find at the Salvation Army store (another use, perhaps for unwanted Xmas gifts?). Change the scent often and redouse every other day. Chanel #5 worked really well for quite a while... Jo's dad swears by hanging his sweaty overalls in the garden at the end of the day. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 10:07:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29067 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:07:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10628 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:01:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA16831; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:00:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16768 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:00:03 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dAPNa10110 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:56:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:56:05 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: More good news! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 Just got off the phone with Bill Draper from Draper's Super Bee Apiaries. Looks like they'll be setting up 24 hives here this year. They're very pleased to find an organic farm with a good source of clean open water nearby. They supply the hives, the colonies, the electric fencing, the workers to harvest the honey. I get one pound of honey for each hive stationed here, plus of course all of the pollinating action! I can also buy honey wholesale from them by the gallon for distribution to the CSA members -- really great prices since they're close enough for me to pick up at their warehouse. Visitors will have to be reminded and trained that the bees are valued workers and are not to be disturbed, and I might have to adjust tour schedules so that we aren't trying to walk civilians through at high-activity times of the day. And some of us will have to accept that we're probably going to get nailed once in a while. Boy, that's just what it feels like, too -- a hot nail! (Voice of experience, took me a while to learn how to work in the garden when the bees are busy and I do take an occasional hit to this day. The bumblebee who fell into the big clompy garden clog was the worst, though the yellowjacket who went down the loose back waistband of those jeans I should have taken in when I lost weight was a close second.) I figure it's a reasonable price to pay and I thank my lucky stars that this is one allergy I seem to have missed. Drapers also does bee-sting therapy workshops. I have to admit that my fibromyalgia and arthritis are almost gone, don't know if it's dumb luck or goat's milk or good old-fashioned weight-bearing exercise (otherwise known as honest sweaty work) or bee stings. They also sell beautiful furniture-quality observation hives -- maybe next year! Can anybody tell I'm more than a little jazzed about this development? Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com If you'd like to visit Draper's on-line, they're at http://www.draperbee.com -- if you end up doing business with them, let them know I recommended them! The more I run these ridges the more interesting wonderful places I find on the back roads within ten miles of home. What a hoot! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 10:42:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00085 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:42:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA22397 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:36:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18951; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:34:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from ic4.ithaca.edu (ic4.ithaca.edu [147.129.1.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18575 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:27:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from ithaca.edu (ic069163.ithaca.edu [147.129.69.163]) by ic4.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #30132) with ESMTP id <01J8Z0KRJUNW0000PF@ic4.ithaca.edu> for CSA-L@prairienet.org; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:27:08 EST Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:29:31 -0500 From: Debbie Teeter Subject: Re: Deer Control To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Message-id: <36F11BDB.506E0F61@ithaca.edu> Organization: Ithaca College MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <199903181418.IAA13979@firefly.prairienet.org> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 Along similar lines as Jim and Jo: we've have good luck hanging bars of deodorant soap (left in the box/wrapping) from our fruit and ornamental trees. We had constant winter and spring damage (branch tip nibbling, bark stripping) before trying this. Debbie Teeter A.J. Teeter Farm Ithaca, NY Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > When our dog falls behind on deer patrol we pitch a tent in the area where > the deer come in and camp out for a couple of nights. The dog gets > re-oriented to the chase and the deer are very upset by human presence in > "their" territory. This seems to help for at least several weeks. > > We have had some success with perfume: tie rags into tree branches or posts > here and there around the perimeter and douse with the stickiest perfume > you can find at the Salvation Army store (another use, perhaps for unwanted > Xmas gifts?). Change the scent often and redouse every other day. Chanel #5 > worked really well for quite a while... > > Jo's dad swears by hanging his sweaty overalls in the garden at the end of > the day. > > Jo and Jim > "The Community Farm" newsletter > A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture > http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 12:41:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03313 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:41:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24681 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28898; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:33:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28447 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:27:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990318172751.21258.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [199.217.10.2] by send102.yahoomail.com; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:27:51 PST Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:27:51 -0800 (PST) From: Loren Davidson Reply-To: loren@wombat.net Subject: Re: Deer Control To: CSA list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 ---Leigh Hauter wrote: > The idea of meditating or whatever with the poor deer also seems a little > too much. Which of the dozens of deer should I meditate with (Flossie, > Mildred, Ruth Ann, or possibly Betty)? I am sure some of these deer don't > even know each other. I believe that the concept is not necessarily to communicate with individual deer, but with the species consciousness of Deer. Many Native American (and Native European, several more centuries removed) cultures have, in their mythologies and beliefs, the concept of Bear, or Deer, or Raven, as the spirit of that species. Speaking to that spirit of Deer successfully means that the message will get to all the individual deer somehow. One practical application of this that I haven't nearly mastered yet involves speaking to the spirit of Mosquito, indicating that many of their species will die if they land on me for a snack. Once in a great while I get it right, and they leave me alone for a day or so. Most of the time though I make a great mosquito lure. :/ Loren == Loren Davidson Permaculturist, poet, philosopher Please reply to loren@wombat.net http://www.batnet.com/beauty/ "Warning: Listening to talk radio can make you stupid." -- M. Frymer _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 17:16:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12399 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:16:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14424 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:10:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA19433; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:08:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19310 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:07:57 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dHHTa23381 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:07:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <728852a5.36f17911@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:07:13 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Deer Control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 I hope we can agree to be friendly even if we don't agree on everything. No, standing out in the field with a drum isn't in Cornell's deer control pamphlet. Yes, I do feel pretty silly when I do it. But it doesn't hurt anything. And the deer don't eat my garden. There, now I've gone and "put mouth" on it, and because I bragged they'll come and eat everything this year. ;-( I also keep a really big noisy dog of a breed that's specialized in territoriality for about 4,000 years (Pyrenees/Maremma), cover the tenderest beds with hog panel and chicken wire cages, hang bars of soap, and one year got a nuisance permit and had a neighbor shoot the two does who were bringing a herd in every night. Maybe they understand the drumming and singing through some kind of psychic vibrations or maybe word got around that I mean business about this garden, who knows? I will continue to do whatever might help and won't hurt. Let's face it, in some cases a bullet _is_ organic. One of my "many skills" hobbies is gardening folklore. I also beat on my old apple trees and yell at them on Imbolc eve (Groundhog Day). I personally think that pruning and fertilizing has more to do with my apple success than this old practice of "scaring" the trees into production, but what the heck. Even the experts at Cornell have admitted "off the record" that peeing outside of the garden perimeter seems to deter deer -- seems to be more effective from a male gardener who thinks "stay out of my territory" while he marks the boundary. But they haven't published this finding. (Outside, not inside the garden, please, we organic gardeners already have a reputation to live down because of manure and compost) I've also had great success with putting piles of "zoo poo" around the garden perimeter. Most zoos sell it these days in expensive little one-pound composted bags but you might be able to get fresh pure stuff in exchange for a donation. If you can get fresh lion or tiger poo for free, more power to you. If I was a deer I'd sure notice that message and stay well on the other side of that 7-mile range, especially when the farmer was leaning out the back door calling "Here, kitty, kitty...." Dori Green http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 17:38:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13138 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:38:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21230 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:32:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21040; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:26:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20991 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:26:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from [209.8.149.176] [209.8.149.145] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AE6EB60088; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:30:06 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <728852a5.36f17911@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:30:08 -0500 To: DGreen47@aol.com From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: Deer Control Cc: CSA list Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 I'm sorry, Komondorak do the same thing, but better. >I also keep a really big noisy dog of a breed that's specialized in >territoriality for about 4,000 years (Pyrenees/Maremma), From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 18:09:23 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14104 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28973 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:03:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA23865; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:01:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23805 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:01:14 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dNBHa04982 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:48:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:48:39 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Deer Control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 The problem with almost all methods of deer control, seriously, is that deer become quickly acclimated to almost every form of control and soon ignore it. The only truly 100% effective control is a 14-foot-high woven wire fence. The monastery a few hills over has surrounded their orchard with just such a fence. Without it I doubt they'd get a single apple. And these guys have got Connections! Dori Green http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 19:38:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15444 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:38:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18762 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA29889; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:30:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29805 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:29:23 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dPBIa28778 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:28:39 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:28:39 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Bee Ware!: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 Bees are an exciting addition to any growing operation. I've found that by keeping four honey bee hives in the center of my fields that the hornets and yellow jackets choose less populated airspace to site their hives. I have planted bamboo screens around the honey well to protect both bees and visitors. But the tired girls sometimes get cranky around full moons and become less tolerant than usual. When they sting, we have first aid immediately available. The Homeopathic Apis mellifica 6X, and Adolph's meat tenderizer formed into a paste with water or saliva. They stop the burn, swelling and itching often accompanying stings. People's fears are often the most challenging obstacle to overcome. I hope your county doesn't use herbicides to "maintain roadsides." I can always tell when the roads are sprayed across Rich Passage from Bainbridge Island because all of my Queens die in the same week. The media would have us believe that mites are the problem. I plant mint around the hives to prevent mites. But I can't keep the field bees from crossing the passage to deathville. Good luck and step lightly. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 19:50:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15633 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:50:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21201 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00806; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:41:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00740 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:40:55 -0600 (CST) From: HMSTDFRMS@aol.com Received: from HMSTDFRMS@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dQPKa04877; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:40:14 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <5b8276f.36f19cee@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:40:14 EST To: SCook21809@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Bee Ware!: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 Congrats on getting the bee hives, Dori. Gotta tell ya, we have had an extremely active swarm in the side of our old barn for many years. Their fly- way is directly in front of the main door to the barn that is used countless times a day. The *only* time anyone has ever gotten stung was when the hay wagon, needing a quick repair, was parked so that it blocked their entry. They got down right ornry, and nailed my hot and tired hubby while he was fixing the wagon. We always warn folks that they are there, and usually visitors take a wide path around that area. Others are quite intrigued with the prospect of a barn full of honey!! Linda Homestead Farms From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 19:53:41 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15711 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21944 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:47:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01182; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:45:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from stinger.excite.com (stinger-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01132 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:45:41 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from ants.excite.com ([199.172.152.146]) by stinger.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990319004509.IVNK7586.stinger@ants.excite.com> for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:45:09 -0800 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re:Bee Ware!: Message-Id: <921804309.26056.302@excite.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:45:09 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.251 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 Art, Thanks for the practical bee advice. We have ordered two swarms that are due to arrive next month some time. We hadn't really thought about CSA members and bees. Will have to go out and get some apis mellifora 6x and meat tenderizer and learn a good calming speech to get the CSAers over their fears of bees and find that perfect out of the way spot for them. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 20:02:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15874 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:02:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA23905 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01779; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:54:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from saturn.ausaid.gov.au (saturn.ausaid.gov.au [202.6.56.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01705 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:54:00 -0600 (CST) Received: by saturn.ausaid.gov.au; id LAA25586; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:53:26 +1100 (EST) Received: from degas.ausaid.gov.au(202.6.37.150) by saturn.ausaid.gov.au via smap (4.1) id xma025577; Fri, 19 Mar 99 11:53:24 +1100 Received: from ccMail by degas.ausaid.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 000BD9E0; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:53:34 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:51:44 +1000 Message-ID: <000BD9E0.005013@ausaid.gov.au> From: Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au (Anton Vikstrom) Subject: Fw: Virus Alert VERY IMPORTANT To: Robert_Ferraris@ausaid.gov.au (Robert Ferraris), Patricia_Ludowyk@ausaid.gov.au (Patricia Ludowyk), John_Murray@ausaid.gov.au (John Murray), Ed_Peek@ausaid.gov.au (Ed Peek), Brian_Scoullar@ausaid.gov.au (Brian Scoullar), Luca_Tacconi@ausaid.gov.au (Luca Tacconi), CSA-L@prairienet.org, sgraham@findhorn.org, salsify333@hotmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 what will those clever fellas down in hacker land think of next>? ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Fw: Virus Alert VERY IMPORTANT Author: steve@gungahlintech.com.au (Gungahlin Tech - Steve) at Inter-net Date: 3/18/99 10:32 PM >Subject: Fw: Virus Alert VERY IMPORTANT > >Please make a note of the message below... > >If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say 'Jesus'" >DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. >Forward this letter out to as many people as you can. > >This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. > >This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; please share it >with everyone that might access the Internet. Once again, pass this >along to EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped. > >AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is >NO remedy for it at this time. Please practice cautionary measures >and forward this to all your online friends ASAP. > > > > > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 22:00:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA17671 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:00:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21269 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:54:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA08384; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:52:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08320 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:51:55 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dMPCa18039 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:49:44 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:49:44 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bee Ware!: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 One of the great advantages of living in a less-populated area is that it seems to be easier to win the battle about road spraying. Maybe it was because I buy hay from the highway superintendent. It's all connected. Dori Green http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 20 06:53:42 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA14624 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:53:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA17691 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:47:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10827; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:46:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from www.mebbs.com (www.mebbs.com [207.177.12.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10696 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:40:46 -0600 (CST) Received: by www.mebbs.com from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:50:20 -0600 Received: from boblkbns.netins.net [207.177.12.36] by www.mebbs.com [207.177.12.3] (SLmail 3.2.3108) with SMTP id A796698CDD8411D28AC90020182AA861 for plus 1 more; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:50:19 -0600 Message-ID: <000501be72c6$06c94f60$240cb1cf@boblkbns.netins.net> From: "Ron Boyer" To: Cc: "Ron Boyer" Subject: haven't heard Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:37:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-SLUIDL: B09A9CB5-DD8A11D2-8AC90020-182AA861 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 I haven't heard from anyone in the last day or two so I was wondering if the list was down this is my first letter. I am Ron Boyer from Boyer Black Beans in Iowa.I don't have a CSA but I do raise dry beans and I think later on in the season we should be able to help each other out particularly in the midwest.I have a web page that is not completed yet but if you are interested it is www.blackbeans.com I hope you check it out and I am sure I will be talking to you. PS I farm about 500 acres but I have some of the same problems you have(deer and profits) it has been interesting see you approach to these problem among others Ron Boyer From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 20 09:40:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16454 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:40:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA08775 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16013; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:32:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15934 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:31:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.190] [198.69.131.190] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A1FE20C013C; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:34:38 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:34:38 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Fwd: What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now that the big marketing and distribution companies are moving in? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id IAA15935 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:50:51 -0800 >From: "Albert V. Krebs" >Reply-To: avkrebs@earthlink.net >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: one@earthlink.net >Subject: What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now that the big > marketing and distribution companies are moving in? >X-RCPT-TO: >Status: U > >http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/en/1999/03/16bio.html > >LE MONDE DIPLOMATIQUE - March 1999 > >ORGANIC FOOD: LIES AND PROFITS >Bio business is big business >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- >What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now that the big >marketing and distribution companies are moving in? Will they survive >the shock? As a result of the "mad cow disease" panic, organic farming is >enjoying an unprecedented boom. Consumer demand has never been so >strong. >The major retail stores are filling more and more of their shelves with >organic produce. Organic shops and supermarkets - or at least claiming >to be organic - are shooting up everywhere. However, now that organic >farming is coming into its own and is also receiving subsidies, it has >become a >juicy market niche ripe for exploitation. Faced with the encroachment of > >big business, the organic lobby seems uncertain which way to turn. >by CHANTAL LE NOALLEC * > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- >Buying organic food is a statement of principle. It means supporting a >model of agriculture that is on the side of life, and resisting the >destruction of our environment. It means rejecting the madness of >consumer society, respecting animals, and looking after our bodies. It >also means taking responsibility for our choices in one of the few areas >where it >can still be done. It is a form of freedom and of hope, and a way of >fighting for a better world. > >In the spring of 1998 various "biocoops" (1) in Brittany were selling >yoghurt under the brand name of Grandeur Nature. However this brand >label - distributed by Le Gall dairies, with only their own name featuring on >the packaging - conceals the real source of the product: a company called >Even, which is a major player in the agribusiness sector in Brittany, and a >supplier of pesticides. Somebody had something to hide. > >In another example, the Bio d'Armor yoghurts which sell in the Gant >hypermarkets are also sold under another label in organic food shops - >Grandeur Nature. The only difference is the packaging and the price. >Then there is the Triballat company, also from Brittany, which produces >organic milk products under the Vrai brand name for the large stores, and >as Les Fromagers de Tradition for the specialist market. But in the second >case >Triballat's name does not feature! The same thing happens with >Distriborg, which is distributing the same organic range under two brand >names, >Bjorg and Evernat. Where is consumer choice if the basic information is so >misleading? > >Selling these goods, sometimes produced or distributed by companies >whose primary interest is in making money, hardly fits with the ethos of the >organic movement. "Is this really the kind of development that we want >to encourage when we buy organic?" asks the editor of an organic gardening >magazine, Antoine Bosse-Platire (2). > >The danger lying behind these smokescreen brands is that the organic >sector is about to become industrialised, because the agribusinesses are >beginning to take a big interest in it. Farmland is increasingly being >switched to organic, and an organic industry is developing based on >mono-cropping. >More seriously, a number of companies are pressing for the present >specifications to be relaxed, under the pretext of speeding up >conversion and making it possible to supply more products at ever-lower >prices. So is this what the future holds? A downmarket and standardised >organic sector >run at rock-bottom costs? > >Key figures in the organic movement say they have to make organic >produce available to people on lower incomes. This is an admirable sentiment, >but in attempting to combat charges of elitism, it is not being completely >straight. After all, even the Carrefour supermarket chain has committed >itself to "making organic food more accessible to ordinary people". What > >this will mean is price-cutting, following the same neo-liberal logic >that has reduced conventional agriculture to its present state of paralysis. >Cutting costs will means cutting jobs and wages, increasing output, >intensifying organic agriculture, and creating an organic industry - >with the inevitable consequence of the disappearance of smaller producers. > >The alternative approach is to guarantee a fair remuneration for both >producers and processors, geared to the quality of the product and the >work that goes into it. This is the only way that small and medium-size >organic producers will preserve their independence. And down the line it will >lead to the creation of jobs and more people buying organic. Failing this, we >will have to invent other guarantees, another label, and other places >where produce can be bought. And the charge that organic produce is too costly > >does not stand up to analysis if we look at the costs of conventional >products in terms of subsidies, damage to health and pollution. > >Economical with the truth >Another sign of the industrialisation of the organic sector relates to a > >concession which allows the introduction of non-organic and occasionally >dubious ingredients up to 5% of content. At present this generally >involves thickeners and gelling agents - such as carrageenan, guar flour, >carob >flour and xanthan gum - which are all moisture retainers used in the >food industry, with effects that some people think may be harmful to health >(3). > >In addition, for some months many shops in France have been selling >chocolates and cakes containing lecithin which is not always organic, >which means there is no guarantee as to the origins of the soya used. Is it >genetically modified or not? When you try to ask, you are told that >these articles carry the AB logo (4), that there are not sufficient supplies >of organic soya lecithin available, and that this non-organic lecithin is >permitted as part of the 5% allowable non-organic content. And anyway, >these products have been classified and even approved by Biocoop (5), so > >there is no reason to remove them from the shelves. Or they tell you >that in due course the supplier intends to become "100% organic". > >It is not enough to raise a public debate on genetically modified >organisms (GMOs), and in particular on Novartis's maize. The only coherent >position is a total boycott. Otherwise we abuse the good faith of the many >customers who buy without reading labels, who trust the AB logo and may >believe >that "organic" products are actually 100% organic and therefore carry no risk >of GMOs. > >If you look further, what do you find behind the soya-based organic >produce marketed under the Soy label (produced by Nutrition et Soja) and >sold in many organic food shops in France? You find Novartis, the giant >drugs >and agro-chemical multinational whose genetically modified anti-meal-moth >maize has been under cultivation in France since spring 1998. That means each >time you buy or sell a Soy product you are contributing to the expansion >of Novartis and encouraging their kind of agriculture, and the kind of >civilisation it conjures up. But Biocoop and some sections of the >eco-organic community suppress this information in order, as they put >it, "not to spread panic among consumers". > >Biocoop decided to grant its seal of approval to the Soy label back in >October 1996, even though it knew perfectly well that it was owned by >Sandoz, another seed and agro-chemical giant - known as the "polluter of > >the Rhine" (after the notorious incident at the Sandoz factories in >Basle on 31 October 1986 when tons of insecticides and mercury-based >fungicides were released into the river). Sandoz had also bought the >Cral brand name. It was not until early 1998 that people heard of the >so-called >"issue of conscience" posed by this decision, as described in Comsom'action >magazine published by Biocoop. Subsequently there was no mention of the >Sandoz-Ciba-Geigy merger which gave birth to Novartis in April 1997, not >even in the acceptance documentation for Soy on 17 March 1998. > >Biocoop has gone to great lengths to justify taking Soy on board, as >shown by the reply to an inquiry from a consumer in June 1998: "We find >ourselves in a situation where a company that belongs to the major producer of >genetically modified foods in France is collaborating with the organic >sector in order to set up a traceability procedure so that the absence >of genetically modified elements can be properly guaranteed." Here you have >two propositions that are hard to reconcile: collaborating with Novartis >in order to "protect soya seeds" in the future! Even basic information is >manipulated: "Soy is currently the only producer in this sector >prioritising the use of French organic soya; all the other processors >work with soya imported from the Canada and the USA" (documentation of 17 >March 1998). > >This is quite untrue. Tofoulie, a cooperative set up in 1991 and >operating in the Drme in Provence, has always worked solely with French >organic soya >- unlike Soy, which uses both non-organic soya (25% of its total output) >and foreign organic soya (7.5%) (6) and hence runs the risk of >contamination by genetically modified soya. And soya certainly does not >represent the totality of leguminous vegetable valuable for crop >rotation. >"Ethics" come a poor second to the harsh logic of business: if it >stopped selling Soy, how would it stock its shelves? > >What seems to be happening is that the acquisition of Soy has given >Novartis a key to entry into the organic market that will enable it to >pull soya producers more or less directly into its sphere of influence. This >means the soya producers of south-west France, who also grow cereals; >other organic suppliers of Soy (Markal, Celnat, Herv, Lima, Petite, Viver >etc); >the distributors (Biocoop, Distriborg, etc); and consumers. As things >stand, Novartis is able to use the organic sector as an alibi, to create >a brand image for "ecological capitalism". > >Already people are talking about "bio-industry", a term they use to >refer both to the industrialisation of the organic sector and the massive >industrialisation of life forms themselves, which is likely to be the >future with the emerging revolution in biotechnology (7). This >conflation and ambiguity is uncomfortably open to exploitation. In this >situation, how >can we properly engage our responsibilities in the future of the organic >sector? And how are we going to find ways to fight multinationals whose >aims are a maximisation of profits and unlimited growth, and certainly >not respect for nature? The danger is that in putting in so much effort to >"save soya" people are forgetting the basic issue, which is the very >survival of organic agriculture in the world of genetic manipulation >which is opening before us. > >Is it really the case that in order to resist being taken over by >agribusiness, the organic sector has no choice but to adopt its models >(competition, emphasising productivity, chasing profits, etc) and accept > >ways of operating that it has for so long rejected? The danger is that >the organic sector is going to lose its identity. Too often in this debate >"ethics" is simply a publicity catch-all which bears no relation to >reality. "Transparency, quality, living together, ecology, organic food, > >consumer action" are all becoming mere slogans in the mouths of many >organic sector professionals - particularly in distribution - who are >fast >turning into marketing technicians. The tendency is towards mergers >between >firms, a proliferation of anonymous products and distributor >brand-names, >and bio-business. > >All this is now becoming the norm, to such an extent that the organic >and >ecological sectors are now tolerating compromises which would have been >unthinkable only a short while ago. There are fewer and fewer >independent >organic companies. In the longer term, the independence of organic >farming >is seriously at risk. One solution might be "autarchic organic farming" >(8) >that aims to return to its roots. Such farming would be local and >respectful of the environment; it would preserve small-scale operations >and >bring life back to deserted rural communities; and it would put >consumers >and producers onto a more equal footing. > >Present tendencies in some parts of the organic sector are putting all >this >at risk. As big multinational companies are eyeing the sector, it is >becoming urgent for organic consumers to stand up and make their >feelings >known. Do we want be witnesses, or rather accomplices, in what is being >prepared for us, or will we opt for real organic choices and quality of >life? This is going to involve questioning the currently fashionable >behaviour patterns of "consumer activists" and "eco-consumers" (9), and >also analysing the notion of sustainable development within which people > >are trying to confine organic agriculture. > >These are choices about the kind of society that we want to live in. >They >lie at the heart of a debate whose outcome will dictate our ways of >feeding >ourselves, our health, and our ways of thinking both about ourselves and > >about the universe. > >* President of the Union des Consommateurs de la Bio (UCBio) > >Translated by Ed Emery > >(1) The Biocoop federation was set up in 1987. It is a distribution >network >for organic produce, representing around 180 biocoops whose aim is to >establish a new kind of relationship between producers and consumers. > >(2) See the article by Antoine Bosse-Plantire, "O acheter bio >demain?", >Les Quatre Saisons du Jardinage, no. 110, Editions Terre Vivante, >May-June >1998. > >(3) Fabien Perucca and Grard Pouradier, Des Poubelles dans nos >Assiettes, >Michel Lafon, Paris, 1996. > >(4) Organic agriculture is a method of farming which uses no synthetic >chemicals and is controlled by certificating bodies recognised by the >French ministry of agriculture. Once an organic product has been >certified >as conforming to government standards, it has the right to the label "AB > >product" or "AB-based product" and, if required, can use the ministry's >green and white AB logo. > >Biocoop recognition is given to organic suppliers who request it, as >long >as they meet the following requirements: independence, support for >organic >production, reduction of middlemen and information on the source of >supplies. The Biocoop product service then draws up the recognition >documentation. This can then be consulted by consumers, and gives >information on the supplier in question: company structure, supplier >policies, distribution policy, etc. >See the acceptance documentation for Soy, 17 March 1998. > >(7) See Jeremy Rifkin, The Biotech Century: Harnessing the Gene and >Remaking the World, JP Tarcher, 1998 (hardback, paperback forthcoming). > >(8) See the editorial in Nature & Progrs, May-June 1998. > >(9) See Raoul Vaneigem, Nous qui dsirons sans fin, Le Cherche Midi, >Paris >1996. > >(10) See Bernard Charbonneau: une vie entire dnoncer la grande >imposture, Ers, Ramonville-Saint-Agne, 1997. This collected volume is >dedicated to Bernard Charbonneau (1910-96) who throughout his life >denounced "the dictatorship of economics", "the lie of technoscience" >and >"the mistakes of political ecology". >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- > >ALL RIGHTS RESERVED 1999 Le Monde diplomatique > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 20 13:45:55 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18735 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:45:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04190 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:39:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27443; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:38:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27371 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:38:12 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dPIUa05038 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:37:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <35ea799b.36f3eaee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:37:34 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now thatthe big marke... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 Exactly why I promote CSA, not just Organic. I don't rely on a piece of paper or a label and don't think it's a good idea for anybody to do so. Whenever possible I buy locally-produced material from people with whom I've taken the time and trouble to build a relationship. It ain't always convenient. But it sure pays off. Tried to burn some trash today, ended up with a pretty big grass fire. The volunteers all know me, I've done business with half of the guys who rolled in. I've donated to the Auxilliary when I could, though with my asthma I can't fight fires myself. (Did a darn good job of it while waiting for them though, especially on the barn side, I can tell you!) They were here less than ten minutes after I flagged down a passing truck and asked him to go next door and have the neighbors call the volunteers. I might have gotten the same response if I didn't make it a point of supporting local business but I do believe that Community makes a difference. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 01:29:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA26394 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:29:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA00891 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:23:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA26050; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:21:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from mb05.swip.net (mb05.swip.net [193.12.122.209]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25496 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:15:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from [130.244.233.30] (dialup233-1-30.swipnet.se [130.244.233.30]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA29417; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:15:18 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: mg25209@gaia.swip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:08:07 +0200 To: Leigh Hauter , CSA list From: hans.von.essen@c.lrf.se (Hans von Essen) Subject: Re: Fwd: What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now that the big marketing and distribution companies are moving in? Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 Maybe the Nordic countries have the longest experience of this problem. Sweden had a kind of CSA movement when the organic movement succeded to enter into supermarkets. Today a little above 9% of all farm land is officially organic and some 3-4% of products sold. Prices for organic products where lowered and it was more comfortable for the consumers. The Swedish more or less CSA-like system which developed in the 1960:ies was too weak to withstand that pressure. I would not take this issue too light if I was in the USA CSA movement. Many organic vegetable producers in Sweden with a diversified production (those that build up the image) are now in serious economic difficulties at the same time as the organic movement is expanding. This problem is today realized within the organic leadership in Sweden. It is necessary to turn back to quality. I think, in consequence, it is necessary to strengthen the CSA work in the direction of rural development to be strong enough to survive, in the way Dori Green describes. Money must circulate within the village to keep the job opportunities there. When people realize that their living base is at stake, this will be a strong enough movive to keep buying local even if it is uncomfortable. Hans von Essen Sweden From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 17:11:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04002 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14120 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:05:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA24474; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:58:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from gold.wvnet.edu (gold.wvnet.edu [129.71.2.25]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24388 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:57:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from IP004091.DIALUP.WVNET.EDU by gold.wvnet.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.D8FD7E10@gold.wvnet.edu>; 21 Mar 1999 17:04:14 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990321165808.006963d8@wvu.edu> X-Sender: dsauter@wvu.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:58:51 -0500 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: "Don T. Sauter" Subject: farm liability insurance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 Hello friends, Where do you get your product liability insurance for products that you produce on your farms? I know the Farm Bureau has farm insurance, but I'm a bit resistant to giving them our business (for fear that our membership will be considered one more "vote" for Farm Bureau views which often are at extreme odds from ours). You have to become a member in order to "qualify" for their insurance. Any suggestions appreciated. Susan Truxell Sauter ssauter2@wvu.edu From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 17:39:35 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04293 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:39:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21223 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:33:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA25973; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:25:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25913 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:25:09 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dTCUa04995 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:24:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3c1a1a28.36f57183@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:24:03 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: farm liability insurance Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 Farm Bureau works for me, and no we don't always agree. Decided I didn't have to stand there looking at a pile of ashes where my house used to stand and no replacement check coming in the mail just to serve my principles. It's a cold world sometimes. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 17:47:28 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04354 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:47:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA22771 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:40:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26410; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:34:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26149 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:30:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903212230.QAA26149@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 236750879; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:30:26 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , "Don T. Sauter" Subject: Re: farm liability insurance Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:14:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 Regarding liability insurance, are you really interested in product liability insurance (which protects you from a suit brought, say, by someone made ill from your produce) or just straight farm liability (which protects you from someone tripping over a raised bed and breaking an ankle). The former is , as I understand it, hard to get and expensive. Especially for food-related items. The latter can be provided by most carriers who insure farms (we simply converted a household insurance policy to a farm insurance policy with the same company when we started Five Springs Farm). But we have not as yet considered product liability. It may be prudent, though. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Don T. Sauter > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: farm liability insurance > Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 4:58 PM > > Hello friends, > > Where do you get your product liability insurance for products that you > produce on your farms? I know the Farm Bureau has farm insurance, but I'm > a bit resistant to giving them our business (for fear that our membership > will be considered one more "vote" for Farm Bureau views which often are at > extreme odds from ours). You have to become a member in order to "qualify" > for their insurance. Any suggestions appreciated. > > > > Susan Truxell Sauter > ssauter2@wvu.edu > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 21:38:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06424 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08884 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:32:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA07419; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:23:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07342 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:23:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06325 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:29:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06647 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:22:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:22:59 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: farm liability insurance In-Reply-To: <199903212230.QAA26149@firefly.prairienet.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > Regarding liability insurance, are you really interested in product > liability insurance (which protects you from a suit brought, say, by > someone made ill from your produce) or just straight farm liability (which > protects you from someone tripping over a raised bed and breaking an > ankle). The former is , as I understand it, hard to get and expensive. > Especially for food-related items. The latter can be provided by most > carriers who insure farms (we simply converted a household insurance policy > to a farm insurance policy with the same company when we started Five > Springs Farm). But we have not as yet considered product liability. It may > be prudent, though. I'd suggest getting product liability for your own protection and for access to markets requiring such insurance (many do). Farm Bureau offers PLI and it provides farm liability coverage as well. Their rates are proportional to the gross annual operation of your farm operation. For example, a projected $5000 income will set your insurance rate at around $125 a year. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 22:52:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07476 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:52:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25063 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:46:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11252; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:39:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from gwgate.lib.iastate.edu (gwgate.lib.iastate.edu [129.186.11.21]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11204 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from Parks_Library-Message_Server by gwgate.lib.iastate.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:54 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:48 -0600 From: "Jeff Hall" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Cc: boblkbns@www.mebbs.com Subject: Re: haven't heard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id VAA11205 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 Hi Ron, you might want to plug into a group called the Iowa Network for Community Agriculture. Jan Libbey is the coordinator, her email is libland@kalnet.com. Its a group that came out of several CSA's starting up, with connections to other local food initiatives. Where are you farming/selling? Jeff Hall, Interesting Times Permaculture Garden Elkhart, IA, US >>> "Ron Boyer" 03/20 5:37 AM >>> I haven't heard from anyone in the last day or two so I was wondering if the list was down this is my first letter. I am Ron Boyer from Boyer Black Beans in Iowa.I don't have a CSA but I do raise dry beans and I think later on in the season we should be able to help each other out particularly in the midwest.I have a web page that is not completed yet but if you are interested it is www.blackbeans.com I hope you check it out and I am sure I will be talking to you. PS I farm about 500 acres but I have some of the same problems you have(deer and profits) it has been interesting see you approach to these problem among others Ron Boyer From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 23:12:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07766 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:12:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA28673 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:06:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA12256; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:59:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12197 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:59:33 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dUTGa28780 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:58:11 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:58:11 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: farm liability insurance Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 Susan, The West Coast is not served by The Farm Bureau. We have The Grange instead. Grange insurance is very comprehensive. Home liability, Farm liability, Product liability, Fire, earth quake, volcano eruptions, out buildings, equipment and employee coverage all covered up to $2 million on the basic policy. It cost about double what our home owners policy ran. But it covers everything to do about farming. To get the coverage, one must join the fraternal order of the Grange. Our local chapter has a woman Grange Master, woman Overseer, woman Secretary and woman Treasurer. So what makes it a fraternal organization? The charter. It is a politically and locally active group of concerned farmers who don't allow trivial semantics to get in the way of good works. As with many farmers, there are Spiritual overtones and rituals associated with the business of the organization making it rather secular. Who could ask for more than piece of mind and brotherhood? Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 03:45:50 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA10118 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:45:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA18472 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:39:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA22844; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:28:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22766 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:28:17 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dVLGa28780 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:27:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6a88e70c.36f5fefd@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:27:41 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Grange (was farm liability insurance) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 I can't say enough for the Grange. It's a really wonderful, wonderful organization and a great way to get to know nice people in your community who share your interest in farming. Potluck dinners are fabulous, almost as good as a Lutheran church supper. I'm reactivating my membership this year, part of my general "phoenix" program; I had let it lapse when I was working full time and didn't have enough spare time to spit. Ash Grove rises from the ashes! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 04:14:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA10255 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 04:14:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA23695 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 04:08:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA23658; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:01:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from ramses.lu.se (ramses.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23615 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:01:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (luetnfs.etn.lu.se [130.235.150.159]) by ramses.lu.se (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA21577 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:02:23 +0100 (MET) Received: from LUETNFS/SpoolDir by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.21); 22 Mar 99 10:13:18 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUETNFS (Mercury 1.30); 22 Mar 99 10:13:02 +0100 Received: from humecol.lu.se by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.30) with ESMTP; 22 Mar 99 10:13:00 +0100 Message-ID: <36F60476.3B393E51@humecol.lu.se> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:51:02 +0100 From: Folke =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Community supported, Agriculture" Subject: Ruralisation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id DAA23617 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 In the Global Futures Bulletin #79 and 80, a matter very close to my research field is discussed, city future, and I have added the following remark. Since I think that the issue is of interest also to the CSA-members, I take the liberty to post it also to you, in order to ecourage your work. FG THE FUTURE OF CITIES Folke Gnther [1] A very interesting discussion on urban development has taken place in the GFB #79 and #80 by Peter Newman [2], Ted Trainer [3] and John McLaughlin [4], and in the editorial comments to their compositions. In the discussions, however, some important issues have been foreseen that must be pointed out: I. Energy dependence Urban structures are not only heavily energy using, but also can it be said that they are a result [5] of energy availability. This matter can naturally be discussed, but I think that almost everybody will agree with the statement that a conurbation is heavily energy dependent. Thus, the sustainability of a city is dependent on easily accessible energy. An increasing number of studies [6] doubt that energy will be easily accessible even in the close future. Even in a case where this is not agreed with, it should be taken up as a consideration in the sustainable development discussion. The energy dependence is not only a function of personal transportation/urban sprawl, but also an increasing amount of energy used in the food system. A low estimate is that the food system requires ten times the energy in the food, probably more. The US food system reached that (in)efficiency around 1980 [7]. Since the average food energy needed to sustain a person is about 1000 kWh per year, this means that the food related energy requirements of a person (10 000 kWh/yr) are larger than those of transportation (3 500 kWh/yr) or space heating/cooling (4 000 kWh/yr). Naturally, this correspondingly affects the vulnerability to energy availability of the different systems. Therefore, urban sprawl and urbanisation will only take place in a situation characterised by easily accessible energy. If a habitation system can be found that would diminish this energy dependency considerably, it would be much less vulnerable. II. Nutrient dependency When people live in a crowded area (a conurbation) the food can not be produced locally for its inhabitants (see point I) but must be imported from a wide area. Nutrients, of which phosphorus is the scarcest in the support area, follow the food. Hence fertilisers must be supplied to the food growing area, and they are accumulated in the urban area, or lost into seas or lakes. To my knowledge, there are no cities that maintain a circulation of nutrients to the supporting area, but all have a net import or throughput of nutrients. This situation has several complications. First, there is a support pollution problem. The time-horizon for availability of phosphorus for nutrient production (at current energy prices!) is 100 150 years. In the other end, phosphorus (and nitrogen) compounds are serious water pollutants. To avoid the pollution problem, an increasing part of the cities have installed wastewater plants. If phosphorus is not let out of the area, it will accumulate there, mainly as sludge from the plants. The sludge is deposited in the vicinity, either on landfills or on local agriculture. By this, the accumulation in the area will go on. However, when an increasing amount of nutrients is accumulated in the area the non-point leakage will increase. After some time, the total leakage will amount to a substantial part of the import, and the phosphorus flow is redirected into the flow import accumulation leakage, instead of the earlier import export mode. The end result is the same, however, with depletion in one end and pollution in the other. This is what I call a HEAP-trap (Hampered Effluent Accumulation Processes) [8]. It is clearly an unsustainable conduct. Therefore, urban sprawl and urbanisation will only take place in a situation characterised by easily accessible energy and easily accessible nutrients, especially phosphorus. The only way to avoid this problem is to develop a local food production system that also can re-use the nutrients. The lesser the access to cheap energy and nutrients are, the closer must the loop be. A conclusion: If long-time survival is the issue, local, mainly self-supporting communities must replace the large conurbations. Started soon, the process must not necessarily be very fast. I call this process a ruralisation. [1] Folke Gnther, disserting at Department of Systems Ecology, NMR, Stockholm University, Sweden (Ecological Adaptation of Human Settlements). Lecturer in Division of Human Ecology, Lund University, Sweden. URL:http://www.etn.lu.se/~folke_g/folkegsv.htm (sorry, most of it is in Swedish) E-mail: Folke.Gunther@humecol.lu.se [2] Newman, Peter 'Cities and Smart Growth' Global Futures Bulletin #79 01 Mar, 1999 [3] Trainer, Ted 'Smart Growth' Global Futures Bulletin #80 15 Mar, 1999 [4] McLaughlin, John Impact of the Net on Urban Planning/Transport Global Futures Bulletin #80 15 Mar, 1999 [5] A diagram shoving the development if cities compared to the global energy use can be found (in an article in swedish) at http://www.etn.lu.se/~folke_g/RURSV2.HTM [6] http://hubbert.mines.edu/ ; http://dieoff.org/page1.htm ; Campbell, C. J., 1997. The Coming Oil Crisis. Multi-Science Publishing Company / Petroconsultants S.A.; Campbell, C. J. and J. H. Laherrre, 1998. The End of Cheap Oil. Scientific American, 3: 78-83 [7] Hall, C.A.S., C.J.Cleveland and R.Kaufmann, 1986. Energy and Resource Quality. Wiley Interscience, New York. [8] Gnther, F., 1997. Hampered Effluent Accumulation Processes: Phosphorus Management and Societal Structure. Ecological Economics, 21, 159-174. Elsevier -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Folke Gnther +46 (0)46/ 14 14 29 el. +46 (0)46/222 36 98. Kollegievgen 19, 224 73 Lund, Sweden URL: http://www.humecol.lu.se/~folke_g/folkegsv.htm --- When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it. A.A. Milne From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 08:06:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA11941 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:06:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA00415 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:00:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA29064; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 06:52:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp.thestreet.com ([208.241.190.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28983 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 06:51:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from jherr ([207.38.252.9]) by smtp.thestreet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58593U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:40:39 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990322044736.00a0e22c@mail.thestreet.com> X-Sender: Jherr@mail.thestreet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 04:47:39 +0000 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Jeff Herr Subject: Re: Grange (still is farm liability insurance) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 We had USAA coverage on our home. As many know, USAA has just about the lowest rates in the land. But they don't cover ag operations of any kind. So we checked with Grange and for a modest 10% boost in premium we got the farming coverage we needed plus a HUGE increase in liability coverage and insurance for all buildings and equipment. Seems pretty good to us. Thankfully we've never filed a claim. But that will be the real test. Jeff Herr The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA At 03:27 AM 3/22/99 EST, DGreen47@aol.com wrote: >I can't say enough for the Grange. It's a really wonderful, wonderful >organization and a great way to get to know nice people in your community who >share your interest in farming. Potluck dinners are fabulous, almost as good >as a Lutheran church supper. I'm reactivating my membership this year, part >of my general "phoenix" program; I had let it lapse when I was working full >time and didn't have enough spare time to spit. > >Ash Grove rises from the ashes! > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com > > Jeff Herr TheStreet.com phone: (425) 333-6842 mobile: (425) 985-2913 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 08:58:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12664 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:58:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12907 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:52:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA01531; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:46:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01483 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:45:45 -0600 (CST) From: Adenalou@aol.com Received: from Adenalou@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id sYFLa03225 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:45:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:45:06 EST To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: research--is fresh food more nutritious? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 Does anyone know of the actual published studies that say fresh food is more nutritious than food that has been sitting around for awhile, or food that wasn't picked ripe? I'm writing my senior thesis on CSA at UT-Austin and haven't gotten my hands on this info. Also, does anyone know where, specifically, the quote about food travelling 1300 miles from field to fork comes from? I've heard the University of Massachusettes, but I'm not sure. Thanks. Please reply to this address: adena@mail.utexas.edu, don't just press reply. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 09:24:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13007 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:24:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17253 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:17:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA02940; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:11:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02546 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:03:38 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dWEQa26764 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:54:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <39452ec0.36f64bb1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:54:57 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 I've devised two ways to do this -- because let's face it, if people were into delayed gratification and risk the way we are, they'd be farmers too and we wouldn't have a social need for CSAs! 1) Half of every shareholder fee goes into an escrow account, no matter what the temptation might be to spend it on needful things or reimburse me for operating expenses already laid out. This way if I have to I can fill the weekly orders through wholesale purchases. I have shareholders specify if they require only 100% chemical-free produce and if so I make sure that's what they get, otherwise I use my network of other neighboring farmers and wholesale suppliers. I buy some from them every week, mostly to fill in the farm market stands and also to keep a relationship working. 2) If the absolutely worst case scenario happens and there's a total crop failure here at the farm and it's so bad that the escrow money can't replace the shares even at wholesale, shareholders receive a credit to be applied to the next year. Last year's drought coupled with a demanding full-time job and unreliable hired help (as in never showing up when they said they would) hit my garden pretty hard last season, and I ended up offering replacement or credits to my members. Out of 12 (I was running on minimum to start with), only two took credits. Five told me to forget about it, they felt like they had received their money's worth. Five accepted replacements, and the escrow account covered it easily. Needless to say, I ended up not making any money on the garden last year (except for the edible pansy bed, which was a huge success). But without losing any money either, I covered my credibility nicely and reducing the risk factor this way makes it a _lot_ easier to recruit new members for this our major expansion year (going from about two cultivated acres to about eight, yikes). I didn't get into this game with the idea of becoming a distributor. But y'know, it's sort of a public service and might actually pay some of the bills one of these days! I keep my markups very low and everybody seems to be happy with this system. I even make enough so that it covers my time and gas expenses. No, it doesn't match the full "philosophy" of CSA, in which risks are willingly shared with the farmer. When somebody discovers a really good way to sell that idea to civilians, please let me know! Looking at my statistics above, just about half of my shareholders accepted that idea and in fact proposed it. Notice that it was entirely their choice, not written into the agreement -- there's something about human nature that makes it easier to do the right thing sometimes when it isn't legislated. Anybody else have good ideas for minimizing shareholder risk or selling the idea of sharing the risks? Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 09:46:05 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13618 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:46:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21840 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:40:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04448; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:33:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03861 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:25:19 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dTRDa04840 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:24:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42f3feee.36f652a0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:24:32 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Using Access for Farm Records (and some other stuff) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 Hokay, I've been a power-user and documentation specialist for Access for several years now. Completely self-taught. Just put together my first multi-table query, linking my list of 700 garden beds (50 blocks of 14 4'x50' beds each) with my list of more than 200 different plant varieties. Omigosh, it worked! What a tool this is going to be, especially when it's time next year to consider crop rotations! I use the Access templates for planning and scheduling workshops and events, keeping member lists, and organizing newsletter articles, recipes, and press releases. Some day my website will get organized in a relational database, too. Between the power of the new Access templates and being able to use Word to design and read web pages, it was worth it to me to shell out $600 of my limited personal funds for Office 97 a couple of months ago. And my computer is going in to the shop next week (aarrrghgh, a whole week) for some minor repair (bolt came off the printer port -- I found my 4-switch box and it's going to be installed so I'm not futzing with the back of the CPU any more) and professional cleanup and Y2K prep. So a big part of this week's work is 100% total backup onto the zip drive disks. Ugh, not my favorite way to spend a day. I'm a little irritated; I had this computer professionally built to my specs and it was supposed to have at least three printer ports. It's got one and two other useless connections. I'm picking up six bottle babies the day after Easter (three doelings, one wether, and two lambs), so this week I'm shoveling and scrubbing the chicken coop to put it into service as a nursery for their two or three-week introduction period (I never put new animals with the existing herd and sometimes keep traveling herd members separate for a couple of weeks when they return from an event -- and don't have disease problems and intend to keep it that way). All feed and weight gain and health observation and treatment records go into my trusty Access files, then summary information goes into QuickBooks Pro. If I wanted to spend more time at the computer and less starting seeds or playing with two-week-old baby goats and four yearling wethers who are b*tchy because I haven't opened that door into summer and the babies are getting so much attention, I could probably set up everything straight from Access. Soon I'll be feeding data straight into QuickBooks Pro, just downloaded the first quarter's banking data straight in but haven't started goofing with it yet. Just in case the computer goes oopsie, I also keep all financial data and important records such as innoculation and breeding and training records in a weekly bookkeeping hardcopy book. I can carry it with me and write down information as transactions happen, makes it very convenient for data entry once a day or at the end of the week. Yes I do too have time to pull weeds. But give me 48 hours notice before walking through the house. I'm saving the world, not working for a housekeeping award. PS -- on that note -- one of my best new products is a place mat that says "Martha Stewart Doesn't Live Here!" !! So I guess I'm not alone in the housekeeping thing. Don't tell anybody, but it's the real reason I'm installing a chemical toilet out in the field -- so visitors don't have an excuse to look inside the house. I keep soap and a stand with a pitcher of water and basin next to the little house under the pear trees. Note: chemical toilets can be rented for the summer or purchased used and pumped when needed. This is also A Good Thing when I have lots of visitors (we don't need an overloaded septic) and when lots of them are strangers, especially young ones, and I don't know how light their fingers might be. Just the realities of opening one's farm to the public. Prevention is better than prosecution. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 12:42:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17713 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:42:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07540 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA19077; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:29:08 -0600 (CST) Received: from dinonet1.dinonet.it ([194.21.93.40]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18933 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:27:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from lbetti ([194.21.93.112]) by dinonet1.dinonet.it (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11205) with SMTP id AAB234 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:27:34 +0100 Message-Id: X-Sender: lbetti@mail.dinonet.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:20:12 +0100 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Gabriele Betti Subject: how to find members for an EcoVillage community? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 Hi, I'm trying to set up an EcoVillage in Italy, Tuscany. I'd like to rent a big country house in one of the thousand wonderfull places around there(Tuscany, Chianti wine and so on..) with some land and make a bed & breakfast and a centre for social assistance ...in cooperation with local coop for example, and bio-agricolture... Do you know where I could start with this project from? Internet job sites? Local pages about job offers? Seasonal jobs..? Thanks, Gabriele Betti lbetti@dinonet.it From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 15:10:04 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14634 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:10:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA02591; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:06:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02441 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:04:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from [128.114.172.235] (dhcp-172-36.UCSC.EDU [128.114.172.235]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id MAA08656 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:04:28 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: csafarm@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:10:40 -0800 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: David Oretsky Subject: hello Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 2688 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 Hi there, I've finally joined the CSA listserv and would like to introduce myself. My name is Nancy Vail and my husband is David Oretsky. We are both currently running the CSA program here at the UC Santa Cruz Farm & Garden with the hopes of eventually locating land and beginning our own CSA farm. Each spring 35-40 people from around the world come to the Farm & Garden to take part in the six-month Apprenticeship in Ecological Horticulture, offered through the Center for Agroecology & Sustainable Food Systems. Under the direction of the training staff, apprentices manage the 25-acre Farm and 2-acre Alan Chadwick Garden, learning to grow and care for a variety of vegetables, fruits, herbs and flowers using organic methods. Now in our 5th year, the CSA program offers 40 full and 40 half shares. We mainly target the University community. All members pick up at the farm and there's a self serve herb and flower garden for CSA members to use to supplement their boxes. With a combination of classes, guest lectures, field trips and hands on practical training, apprentices gain the necessary skills to begin their careers in farming. Since the program began in 1967 over 700 graduates have gone on to start their own CSA farms, work in community gardens, participate in overseas development projects , school gardens, on-farm training programs, etc... The Apprenticehip is part of UCSC's Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems. Center staff and faculty work to research, develop and advance sustainable food and agricultural systems which are environmentally sound, economically viable, socially responsible, nonexploitative and which serve as a foundation for future generations. Center staff conduct research as well as offer an extensive public education program. At present, the Apprenticeship program generates most of its own funding through produce sales, apprentice tuition, and public events. To continue and to expand its work, the Apprenticeship is seeking support from foundations, businesses and individuals who share our commitment to working toward a more sustainable agriculture. For more information about the Apprenticeship, CSA, and the Center please write or call: The Center for Agroecology & Sustainable Food Systems (CASFS) 1156 High St. University of California Santa Cruz, CA 95064 Apprenticeship tel (831) 459-4140 CSA tel (831) 459-3336 fax (831) 459-2799 web page http://zzyx.ucsc.edu/casfs Looking forward to sharing information! Sincerely, Nancy Vail Nancy Vail and David Oretsky CSA Coordinators Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems University of California at Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, CA 95064 (408)459-3336 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 15:31:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21190 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:31:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA04672; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:30:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04468 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:28:57 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA05594; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:28:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-16.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.48) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005488; Mon Mar 22 14:27:21 1999 Message-ID: <012e01be74a2$31e27040$27a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:25:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1576 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 > Dori wrote: >No, it doesn't match the full "philosophy" of CSA, in which risks are >willingly shared with the farmer. When somebody discovers a really good way >to sell that idea to civilians, please let me know! Looking at my statistics >above, just about half of my shareholders accepted that idea and in fact >proposed it. Notice that it was entirely their choice, not written into the >agreement -- there's something about human nature that makes it easier to do >the right thing sometimes when it isn't legislated. > >Anybody else have good ideas for minimizing shareholder risk or selling the >idea of sharing the risks? > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com > > We felt uncomfortable with the sharing the risk aspect of CSA as well. It make "philosophical" sense but doesn't make good business sense especially when its your first year and you hope your members will return and bring more members. I have never mentioned this risk thing in my flyer. We decided if we bombed we would refund their money. Thank goodness the odds on bombing aren't high and our garden was beautiful. I think all people realize that one crop may not do well and won't have a fit if they get a few less of one thing. Our cucumbers were our only crop that wasn't great although I think I made quota. We forgot to plant the parsnips no one even asked. On my flyer this year under amount of garlic I wrote new crop see how it grows. Didn't want to promise. But we will all have a good year this year! Beth From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Mar 21 22:52:31 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07476 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:52:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25063 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:46:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11252; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:39:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from gwgate.lib.iastate.edu (gwgate.lib.iastate.edu [129.186.11.21]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11204 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from Parks_Library-Message_Server by gwgate.lib.iastate.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:54 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:48 -0600 From: "Jeff Hall" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Cc: boblkbns@www.mebbs.com Subject: Re: haven't heard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id VAA11205 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 Hi Ron, you might want to plug into a group called the Iowa Network for Community Agriculture. Jan Libbey is the coordinator, her email is libland@kalnet.com. Its a group that came out of several CSA's starting up, with connections to other local food initiatives. Where are you farming/selling? Jeff Hall, Interesting Times Permaculture Garden Elkhart, IA, US >>> "Ron Boyer" 03/20 5:37 AM >>> I haven't heard from anyone in the last day or two so I was wondering if the list was down this is my first letter. I am Ron Boyer from Boyer Black Beans in Iowa.I don't have a CSA but I do raise dry beans and I think later on in the season we should be able to help each other out particularly in the midwest.I have a web page that is not completed yet but if you are interested it is www.blackbeans.com I hope you check it out and I am sure I will be talking to you. PS I farm about 500 acres but I have some of the same problems you have(deer and profits) it has been interesting see you approach to these problem among others Ron Boyer From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 23:11:11 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23539 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA07927; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:07:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07788 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:06:12 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dXMOa03692 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:59:13 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <5a508908.36f71191@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:59:13 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1512 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 >> It makes "philosophical" sense but doesn't make good business sense especially when its your first year and you hope your members will return and bring more members. I have never mentioned this risk thing in my flyer.>> Shame, shame, shame! As organic farmers my family's income has dropped to 20% of the income we enjoyed treating diseases rather than preventing them. The wise consumer understands the hard work and low pay farmers must commit to in order to support their community. Responsible planning, a strong work ethic and responsiveness to feedback are all we guarantee our share holders. We have every subscriber sign a one paragraph contract that reads; "As a member of Ocean Sky Farm CSA I understand that I am making a financial obligation for the 1999 season. I accept the inherent risks of farming and thereby receive no guarantee on the amounts of produce that I will receive. It is my responsibility to either pick up my subscription or make other arrangements for pick up on the designated pick up day." Although we have had a crop failure or two, our subscribers feel that they are getting a good deal. They keep coming back and referring their friends to the CSA. We don't understand why farmers feel they must promise good weather and harvests. Its a dance. Sometimes your toes get stepped on. Sometimes you step on other people's toes. But it is still enjoyable for every participant. Relax, do your best and be sincere. Your subscribers will understand. Art Biggert From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 06:14:28 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA16248 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:14:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA22720; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 05:12:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22654 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 05:11:35 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dCKVa28778 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:10:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:10:45 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 3094 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 Do note that almost half of last year's membership volunteered to share the drought losses with me and I didn't even ask. They're keepers! Mindset here in a very rural piece of Upstate New York is very different from the mindset in the Pacific Northwest, which is in general more progressive in its thinking and more understanding/accepting of the concept that "community" means more than "location". I tried for three years in a row to hang on to the formal "I'm sharing the risk with the farmer" clause in the shareholder agreement -- and had a devil of a time getting _anybody_ to sign up. Took it out and went to the escrow/wholesale-as-a-backup method and my business is exploding. Of course, maybe it's just Y2K fever. And maybe a few more people are understanding the truth of "Pay your organic farmer or pay your oncologist." But they still don't want to hear that message and as the _only_ organic farmer in this area I have to be a little bit careful not to get a reputation for being "strident". I Get It. You Get It. Not everybody is quite as brilliant and intuitive as we are. ;-D So I state the non-controversial truths. My produce tastes wonderful (it does). It's good for you (it is). Buying direct form the farmer helps the farmer and helps the consumer -- the farmer gets more of the dollar and the consumer spends fewer dollars. Around here it's a major victory to get people to consider eating vegetables and real whole food rather than pre-packaged instant microwaveable or fast- food restaurant crud. After I've got them up that first rung of the ladder, then we'll start adding the other messages. In many instances around here, putting up an "organically grown" sign or sticker is actually an _anti_ marketing device. Many people assume it's a) expensive, b) bug-ridden, c) exposed to animal wastes ("dirty") and won't even approach the stand. Yes, yes, I could sell out and move to an area that's more open to the message. And I almost did just that not too long ago. To Whidbey Island near Seattle, in fact. But I've decided that I've been drawn to this place for a reason. It's very obvious that this community needs what I'm doing. Maybe they'll come around, maybe they won't. Until I have enough CSA members to support the farm I'll continue to diversify to an extent that would make anybody crazy and work off- farm jobs where and when I can get them. And I'll continue to grow good dirt here. Harvests are just a bonus from that project. And isn't the statement above about as close as we're going to come to a definitive definition of sustainable agriculture -- even if it's a concept that's real hard to get across to civilians? I'm still taking baby steps here, Art. Give me another ten years and you'll be able to see my pillar of transformational fire all the way from Deception Pass Bridge! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Special membership benefits for long-distance members! http://www.agrove.com/members.html and still looking for a few good apprentices, interns, or partners! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 07:15:47 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25836 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:15:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA24636; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:13:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24571 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:12:45 -0600 (CST) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D6D43N8H; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:12:24 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:07:27 -0500 Subject: More Monsanto stuff/Soy, allergies and such.... Message-ID: <19990323.070736.-376453.3.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6,8-9,11,13-34,36,38-40,42,44-45,47-54,56,58-63,65-66,68-72,74,76,78-79,81,83,85-87,89-90,92-96,98-99,101,103,105-106,108-120 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 4718 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 >From another list..... > > Hi! > > Since many of you (and me too!) pay attention to allergic, intolerance, or > toxic reactions to foods, I thought that this article from the UK may be > of interest. It discussions genetically-engineered soy and possible > adverse effect being seen in humans. Avoiding non-organic soy ingredients > (where possible) can eliminate the risks discussed in the article. Organic > foods are safer and healthier in general, in my opinion. Of course, > they're not always available. :-) > > --------------- > BEGIN ENCLOSURE > --------------- > > First official results of the global experiment are in - soya allergies > dramatically increased in the last year. Prime > suspect - GM soya! Stand up Monsanto - where is your insurance??? > We wait eagerly for the Health Ministers rebuttal. > York Nutritional Laboratory has had a busy day on the phone, but if the > media in your country want to follow this up they > are happy to be contacted. > Tel: +44 1904 690640 > > Daily Express 12 March 99 > Why soya is a hidden destroyer > > Exclusive by Mark Townsend > > Fresh fears over the safety of genetically modified foods surfaced faced > yesterday after new research revealed that food allergies relating to soya > Increased by 50 per cent last year > > A study by Europe's leading specialists on food sensitivity found health > complaints caused by soya - the ingredient most associated with GM foods - > have increased from 10 in 100 patients to 15 in 100 over the past year. > Researchers at the York Nutritional Laboratory said their findings provide > real evidence that GM food could have a tangible, harmful impact on the > human body > > The findings were sent to Health Secretary Frank Dobson last night as > scientists urged the Government to act on the information and impose an > instant ban on GM food, while further safety tests are carried out. Dr > Michael Antoniou, senior lecturer in molecular pathology at Guy's > Hospital, Central London,, said: "This is a very interesting if slightly > worrying, development. "It points to the fact that far more work is needed > to assess their safety. At the moment no allergy tests are carried out > before GM foods are marketed and that also needs to be looked at." > > John Graham, spokesman for the York laboratory, said: "We believe this > raises serious new questions about the safety of GM foods because it is > impossible to guarantee that the soya used in the tests was GM-free." It > is the first time in 17 years of testing that soya has crept into the > laboratory's top 10 foods to cause an allergic reaction in consumers. The > vegetable has moved up four places to ninth end now sits alongside > foodstuffs with a long history of causing allergies, such as yeast, > sunflower seeds and nuts > > Mr. Graham said researchers tested 4,500 people for allergic reactions to > vegetables including soya. Among the range of chronic illnesses it caused > were irritable bowel syndrome, digestiontion problems and skin complaints > including acne and eczema. "People also suffered neurological problems > with chronic fatigue syndrome, headaches and lethargy. It is worrying," Mr > Graham added. Researchers measured the levels of antibodies in a person's > blood. If increased levels were detected it showed the person suffered an > adverse reaction to a particular food. > > Soya, the wonder crop of the 20th century is found in 60 per cent of all > processed foods sold in the UK - from bread to baby food, ready-to-eat > curries to vegetarian lasagne. But because GM and natural soya are mixed > at source in America - the world's biggest supplier - it has become > increasingly difficult for retailers to guarantee the purity of any > products. > > Last month campaigners from Greenpeace dumped four tons of GM soya beans > from America at the gates of Downing Street in protest. The Consumers' > Association yesterday renewed its demand for the Government to investigate > the safety of GM foods. A spokesman said: "We just don't know what health > problems could arise in the future. Waitrose yesterday announced that it > would be stocking its own-label GM-free foods by the end of the month. > Managing director David Felwick said: "We believe customers should be able > to make an informed choice about the products they are buying." > > ------------ - -- Debbie McDonald mailto:lullwatr@flash.net ------------------------------ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 10:16:34 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06863 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:16:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05295; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:14:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05160 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:13:38 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id sIDIa03225 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:12:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e07fb09.36f7af58@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:12:24 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 695 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 << But I've decided that I've been drawn to this place for a reason. It's very obvious that this community needs what I'm doing. Maybe they'll come around, maybe they won't. Until I have enough CSA members to support the farm I'll continue to diversify to an extent that would make anybody crazy and work off- farm jobs where and when I can get them. >> Though she walks through the valley of death, she will have no fear. It's not hard to see Spirit working here. Spirit is wherever one finds love, co-creation and free will. Fortunately, Spirit challenges us only to the point that we can handle. Bless you and keep that transformational fire burning. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 11:27:23 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24439 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:27:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11384; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:25:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11291 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:25:20 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA25714; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:24:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-21.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.53) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025560; Tue Mar 23 10:23:28 1999 Message-ID: <001601be7549$42478b80$35a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:21:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 2544 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 Dori wrote:(I have snipped some of the post) > >Mindset here in a very rural piece of Upstate New York is very different from >the mindset in the Pacific Northwest, which is in general more progressive in >its thinking and more understanding/accepting of the concept that "community" >means more than "location". > >I > >So I state the non-controversial truths. My produce tastes wonderful (it >does). It's good for you (it is). Buying direct form the farmer helps the >farmer and helps the consumer -- the farmer gets more of the dollar and the >consumer spends fewer dollars. > >Around here it's a major victory to get people to consider eating vegetables >and real whole food rather than pre-packaged instant microwaveable or fast- >food restaurant crud. After I've got them up that first rung of the ladder, >then we'll start adding the other messages. > >>But I've decided that I've been drawn to this place for a reason. It's very >obvious that this community needs what I'm doing. Maybe they'll come around, >maybe they won't. Until I have enough CSA members to support the farm I'll >continue to diversify to an extent that would make anybody crazy and work off- >farm jobs where and when I can get them. >And isn't the statement above about as close as we're going to come to a >definitive definition of sustainable agriculture -- even if it's a concept >that's real hard to get across to civilians? > >I'm still taking baby steps here, Art. Give me another ten years and you'll >be able to see my pillar of transformational fire all the way from Deception >Pass Bridge! > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > I agree with everything that Dori wrote. Although I live in the flip side of her local ie rural vs suburban. We are a bit of an oasis in suburbia, as Doris says they haven't got it yet. Things around her are to anonymous and convenient. Half dozen grocery stores, in summer various conventional farm stands, plus two income busy people hesitant to try any new concept. We like Dori are taking baby steps, off farm jobs have been kept. We are trying to develop a reputation for quality and I suppose quantity. I feel like we are standing on Jello we've got a few years of tenuous business struggle but I am optimistic that some day when people hear Green Hill Farm they say "Thats a great place" Now they say "There is a farm in Shrewsbury?" So Art count your blessings and as Dori said before we must be Sustainable to continue on to that bright "get it " future. Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 12:56:15 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18075 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA17993; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:53:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17919 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:53:11 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dNEJa20204 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:49:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <150010e5.36f7d430@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:49:36 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1122 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 In a message dated 3/23/99 10:14:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCook21809@aol.com writes: << Though she walks through the valley of death, she will have no fear. >> ...because she is the Herd Boss and the meanest cast-iron B**ch in this here valley! My heroes are Xena, Judge Judy, Della Reese, and Emma Peel! Hey, let's not kid ourselves. The Environment sometimes needs us to be warriors even if we do choose to be peaceful ones. BTW, consider for just one moment that maybe there is no such thing as Death, that it's just a threat that those who choose to oppress us invented to hold over our heads. Once we expand our thinking to include that possibility there is absolutely _nothing_ that can frighten us or turn us aside from the path we know is right. Lots of people are into CSA because it's a great marketing tool. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. And some of us are out to change the world; it's a good tool for that, too. It ain't an easy path all the time, but it's sure a satisfying one! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 13:43:04 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01066 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:43:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22264; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:38:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from ic4.ithaca.edu (ic4.ithaca.edu [147.129.1.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22167 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:37:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from ithaca.edu (ic069163.ithaca.edu [147.129.69.163]) by ic4.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #30132) with ESMTP id <01J966O6A0DA00056W@ic4.ithaca.edu> for csa-l@prairienet.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:37:13 EST Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:39:43 -0500 From: Debbie Teeter Subject: Re: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders To: csa-l@prairienet.org Message-id: <36F7DFEE.9CAF3B4F@ithaca.edu> Organization: Ithaca College MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_qpLhSDIt2p6x/YljL8/BvA)" References: <39452ec0.36f64bb1@aol.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 12687 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 --Boundary_(ID_qpLhSDIt2p6x/YljL8/BvA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Interesting thread - I've enjoyed reading other folks' comments! Dori has definately hit upon something that works for her and her shareholders - you go, girl! When we first started, we talked about risk in terms of serious-to-total crop loss due to potentially "bad" weather. Experience has taught us that although there can be "bad" weather if you're monocropping, the crop variety with CSA has shown us that certain weather conditions can be "bad" for some crops and "good" for others. So now we talk about risk in terms of what we plan to give and how weather conditions might impact that plan. Our take is that the risk in CSA is that you might not get as much of your favorite veggies as you hoped, and may wind up with lots of something(s) you don't particularly care for. A question for Art: Do you sign something for your shareholders as well promising to do what is necessary to ensure a harvest (i.e. ordering your seeds in a timely manner, starting your seedlings on time, transplnating on time, weeding, watering, etc. - responsibly farming stuff)? > "As a member of Ocean Sky Farm CSA I understand that I am making a financial obligation for the 1999 season. I accept the inherent risks of farming and thereby receive no guarantee on the amounts of produce that I will receive. It is my responsibility to either pick up my subscription or make other arrangements for pick up on the designated pick up day." I'm not being critical, just wondering. We don't have our shareholders sign anything formal, but we do talk about risks (as outlined above) and responsibility, which is where we cover the "please pick up your stuff each week" issue. We also talk about our responsibilities as farmers to act as stewards of the land and also to plan, organize and do our job right so if there is a shortage it won't be because we never got around to planting something, or we went on vacation and the weeds got out of control, etc... We've heard some real horror stories about CSA's that failed because the farmer was inexperienced or negligient. An experience like that makes it real hard for a folks to "trust" again. We've got several shareholders this year with that exact background (their experience was not necessarily from around here), and they came to us because we've been at it a few years and could provide references. Hmm... that's a little off topic, but I guess my question for Art was to determine whether or not he sees responsibility as going both ways, and if so does he cover his responsiblities to shareholders in a similar way to what he requires from them (I'm asking this with a smile - sometimes things in print don't come across the way you mean them). Thanks for your time, Debbie Teeter A.J. Teeter Farm Ithaca NY DGreen47@aol.com wrote: > I've devised two ways to do this -- because let's face it, if people were into > delayed gratification and risk the way we are, they'd be farmers too and we > wouldn't have a social need for CSAs! > > 1) Half of every shareholder fee goes into an escrow account, no matter what > the temptation might be to spend it on needful things or reimburse me for > operating expenses already laid out. This way if I have to I can fill the > weekly orders through wholesale purchases. I have shareholders specify if > they require only 100% chemical-free produce and if so I make sure that's what > they get, otherwise I use my network of other neighboring farmers and > wholesale suppliers. I buy some from them every week, mostly to fill in the > farm market stands and also to keep a relationship working. > > 2) If the absolutely worst case scenario happens and there's a total crop > failure here at the farm and it's so bad that the escrow money can't replace > the shares even at wholesale, shareholders receive a credit to be applied to > the next year. Last year's drought coupled with a demanding full-time job and > unreliable hired help (as in never showing up when they said they would) hit > my garden pretty hard last season, and I ended up offering replacement or > credits to my members. Out of 12 (I was running on minimum to start with), > only two took credits. Five told me to forget about it, they felt like they > had received their money's worth. Five accepted replacements, and the escrow > account covered it easily. > > Needless to say, I ended up not making any money on the garden last year > (except for the edible pansy bed, which was a huge success). But without > losing any money either, I covered my credibility nicely and reducing the risk > factor this way makes it a _lot_ easier to recruit new members for this our > major expansion year (going from about two cultivated acres to about eight, > yikes). > > I didn't get into this game with the idea of becoming a distributor. But > y'know, it's sort of a public service and might actually pay some of the bills > one of these days! I keep my markups very low and everybody seems to be happy > with this system. I even make enough so that it covers my time and gas > expenses. > > No, it doesn't match the full "philosophy" of CSA, in which risks are > willingly shared with the farmer. When somebody discovers a really good way > to sell that idea to civilians, please let me know! Looking at my statistics > above, just about half of my shareholders accepted that idea and in fact > proposed it. Notice that it was entirely their choice, not written into the > agreement -- there's something about human nature that makes it easier to do > the right thing sometimes when it isn't legislated. > > Anybody else have good ideas for minimizing shareholder risk or selling the > idea of sharing the risks? > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com --Boundary_(ID_qpLhSDIt2p6x/YljL8/BvA) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Interesting thread - I've enjoyed reading other folks' comments!

Dori has definately hit upon something that works for her and her shareholders - you go, girl!

When we first started, we talked about risk in terms of serious-to-total crop loss due to potentially "bad" weather.  Experience has taught us that although there can be "bad" weather if you're monocropping, the crop variety with CSA has shown us that certain weather conditions can be "bad" for some crops and "good" for others.  So now we talk about risk in terms of what we plan to give and how weather conditions might impact that plan.  Our take is that the risk in CSA is that you might not get as much of your favorite veggies as you hoped, and may wind up with lots of something(s) you don't particularly care for.

A question for Art:  Do you sign something for your shareholders as well promising to do what is necessary to ensure a harvest (i.e. ordering your seeds in a timely manner, starting your seedlings on time, transplnating on time, weeding, watering, etc. - responsibly farming stuff)?

   > "As a member of Ocean Sky Farm CSA I understand that I am making a financial
obligation for the 1999 season.  I accept the inherent risks of farming and
thereby receive no guarantee on the amounts of produce that I will receive.
It is my responsibility to either pick up my subscription or make other
arrangements for pick up on the designated pick up day."

I'm not being critical, just wondering.  We don't have our shareholders sign anything formal, but we do talk about risks (as outlined above) and responsibility, which is where we cover the "please pick up your stuff each week" issue.  We also talk about our responsibilities as farmers to act as stewards of the land and also to plan, organize and do our job right so if there is a shortage it won't be because we never got around to planting something, or we went on vacation and the weeds got out of control, etc...  We've heard some real horror stories about CSA's that failed because the farmer was inexperienced or negligient.  An experience like that makes it real hard for a folks to "trust" again.  We've got several shareholders this year with that exact background (their experience was not necessarily from around here), and they came to us because we've been at it a few years and could provide references.

Hmm... that's a little off topic, but I guess my question for Art was to determine whether or not he sees responsibility as going both ways, and if so does he cover his responsiblities to shareholders in a similar way to what he requires from them (I'm asking this with a smile - sometimes things in print don't come across the way you mean them).

Thanks for your time,

Debbie Teeter
A.J. Teeter Farm
Ithaca NY
 
 
 
 

DGreen47@aol.com wrote:

I've devised two ways to do this -- because let's face it, if people were into
delayed gratification and risk the way we are, they'd be farmers too and we
wouldn't have a social need for CSAs!  <G>

1)  Half of every shareholder fee goes into an escrow account, no matter what
the temptation might be to spend it on needful things or reimburse me for
operating expenses already laid out.  This way if I have to I can fill the
weekly orders through wholesale purchases.  I have shareholders specify if
they require only 100% chemical-free produce and if so I make sure that's what
they get, otherwise I use my network of other neighboring farmers and
wholesale suppliers.  I buy some from them every week, mostly to fill in the
farm market stands and also to keep a relationship working.

2)  If the absolutely worst case scenario happens and there's a total crop
failure here at the farm and it's so bad that the escrow money can't replace
the shares even at wholesale, shareholders receive a credit to be applied to
the next year.  Last year's drought coupled with a demanding full-time job and
unreliable hired help (as in never showing up when they said they would) hit
my garden pretty hard last season, and I ended up offering replacement or
credits to my members.  Out of 12 (I was running on minimum to start with),
only two took credits.  Five told me to forget about it, they felt like they
had received their money's worth.  Five accepted replacements, and the escrow
account covered it easily.

Needless to say, I ended up not making any money on the garden last year
(except for the edible pansy bed, which was a huge success).  But without
losing any money either, I covered my credibility nicely and reducing the risk
factor this way makes it a _lot_ easier to recruit new members for this our
major expansion year (going from about two cultivated acres to about eight,
yikes).

I didn't get into this game with the idea of becoming a distributor.  But
y'know, it's sort of a public service and might actually pay some of the bills
one of these days!  I keep my markups very low and everybody seems to be happy
with this system.  I even make enough so that it covers my time and gas
expenses.

No, it doesn't match the full "philosophy" of CSA, in which risks are
willingly shared with the farmer.  When somebody discovers a really good way
to sell that idea to civilians, please let me know!  Looking at my statistics
above, just about half of my shareholders accepted that idea and in fact
proposed it.  Notice that it was entirely their choice, not written into the
agreement -- there's something about human nature that makes it easier to do
the right thing sometimes when it isn't legislated.

Anybody else have good ideas for minimizing shareholder risk or selling the
idea of sharing the risks?

Dori Green
Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living
Corning, NY

http://www.agrove.com

  --Boundary_(ID_qpLhSDIt2p6x/YljL8/BvA)-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 17:00:40 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20543 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:00:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA12976; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:58:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12867 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:57:37 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dKMDa00355 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:52:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:52:23 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 748 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 Deb Teeter pointed out quite rightly that "bad" weather for some crops is "good" for others, so diversification rather than monocropping tends by its very nature to minimize risk to shareholders (and farmers). Hee hee, I've got a few members who've been in on this with me from my meager start in 1991. Anybody else here old enough to remember the Big Muddy of 1992 when the temps even in moderate parts of the Northeast never got higher than 70? I'm under threat of slow and agonizing death by a few of those folks if I ever again give them Swiss Chard in quantities even close to those of that season. Success can be dangerous, too! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 11:18:59 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05557 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08369; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:16:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08265 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:15:06 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dOKAa13701 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:07:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:07:23 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: CSA & Homesteading Workshop Weekend Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 2172 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 WHEN: June 18-20, 1999 WHERE: Ash Grove Community Farm, Corning NY WHAT: Buncha workshops. Want to teach one? I've got professionals coming in, too. I'll teach some, but not all! Possible workshops include the following. Vote now! Fencing Field Shelters Goats Poultry Grants CSA Creation & Maintenance Organic gardening Certification Marketing Wildcrafting Garden structures Old house repair Making herbal products Alliances and Private-label sales Farm markets Market gardening (not always the same as organic gardening) Instant garden with permanent raised beds Agro-forestry Animal rescue Field trips to a meat goat farm, Draper Super Bee Apiary, a goat dairy, a monastery sheep operation, a cement statue manufacturer, a u-pick strawberry farm (ice cream, anyone?) and a very successful diversified farm/greenhouse/ice cream parlor business. If it's worth an extra $10 to enough folks, I can hire my friend Ed and his team to take y'all on the one-hour "around the block" tour. He requires $300 for an afternoon (includes all of the exhorbitant insurances). Anybody who takes the accommodations option and wishes to do so may add a day or two to the beginning or end of the weekend for $50 per day (including meals), in order to enjoy the many attractions of this area. We need to know right away if folks want to do this. If we get at least ten (and they have room), accommodations will be at Watson Homestead Conference and Retreat Center near Corning. If they're full by the time we get their minimum number assembled, we'll find someplace else -- we're blessed with quite a few options! HOW MUCH: $200 with meals and hotel-type accommodations Fri. & Sat. nights $150 with meals and hotel-type accommodations Sat. night only $100 with meals if you find your own accommodations $50 if you find your own accommodations and provide own meals $100 deposit required ASAP to reserve accommodations. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 11:50:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13876 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10778; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:49:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10723 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:48:58 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dMWTa13700 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:44:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:44:01 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 2008 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 << Do you sign something for your shareholders as well promising to do what is necessary to ensure a harvest (i.e. ordering your seeds in a timely manner, starting your seedlings on time, transplanting on time, weeding, watering, etc. - responsibly farming stuff)? >> Right on Debbie! In my attempts to be brief I over look important details in these threads. Your attention to them is greatly appreciated. ;-) Yes we make a similar one paragraph commitment to our subscribers. "Your CSA Subscription supports open green space, recycling, local organic agriculture and real health care reform. Our goal is to provide a $20.00 bag of groceries a week to subscribers. There are some inherent risks associated with farming that may temper these benefits. However, the diversity of Ocean Sky Farm produce makes occasional crop losses more of a disappointment than a food value loss." We are able to start the season in April because we have things like honey and dried tomatoes from last fall. We also distribute fresh prepared horse radish, herbal soaps and skin cream samples when spring is late. We start sending out monthly newsletters to all subscribers in January that describe what is growing, when the green houses went up, how the seedlings are doing in the seed room and how current weather is affecting the farm. The newsletter becomes a weekly item during the CSA season. Beth's comments on reputation cannot be taken seriously enough. We give tours to all of the schools in the City of Bainbridge Island and others. We give classes at local nurseries, Granges, the county solid waste department and the Cooperative Extension Service. The best way to build a reputation is to nurture one in public. We have a huge swing set, massive sand box and a couple of jungle gyms for kids to play on as visitors take self guided tours. Adults and their kids need to be entertained before you can inform them in this culture. Now I gotta go farm....... Art From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Mar 24 07:49:54 1999 -0500 Received: from toucan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (toucan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA00700 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:49:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [38.27.198.209] (ip209.minneapolis6.mn.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.198.209]) by toucan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA20214 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:43:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903241243.EAA20214@toucan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:45:19 -0600 Subject: Re: farm liability insurance From: "David Washburn" To: Larry London Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 Everett, We do have product liability, as well as, regular liability through Farm Bureau. I'll check to make sure it covers our food. I know we are covered for the equipment. You are a named insured. --- Regards, David Washburn RED CARDINAL FARM, Inc. dba BCS Metro phone (651) 653-8038; fax (651)653-3556; cell (612)366-1458 ---------- >From: Larry London >To: CSA-L@prairienet.org >Subject: Re: farm liability insurance >Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999, 8:22 PM > > >http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden >london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net > >On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > >> Regarding liability insurance, are you really interested in product >> liability insurance (which protects you from a suit brought, say, by >> someone made ill from your produce) or just straight farm liability (which >> protects you from someone tripping over a raised bed and breaking an >> ankle). The former is , as I understand it, hard to get and expensive. >> Especially for food-related items. The latter can be provided by most >> carriers who insure farms (we simply converted a household insurance policy >> to a farm insurance policy with the same company when we started Five >> Springs Farm). But we have not as yet considered product liability. It may >> be prudent, though. > > >I'd suggest getting product liability for your own protection and >for access to markets requiring such insurance (many do). > >Farm Bureau offers PLI and it provides farm liability coverage >as well. Their rates are proportional to the gross annual operation of >your farm operation. For example, a projected $5000 income will set your >insurance rate at around $125 a year. > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 14:48:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26936 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:48:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA25837; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:45:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from killian.chelsea.net ([207.25.36.14]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25628 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:43:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from oemcomputer (amelia-a47.pins.ny.us.chelsea.net [207.25.44.47]) by killian.chelsea.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA11942 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:42:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501be762e$824844a0$2f2c19cf@oemcomputer> From: "Shana Berger" To: Subject: looking for farm apprentices in NY Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:37:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE75FB.65F8D540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 964 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE75FB.65F8D540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Threshold Farm is looking for two apprentices from April- Nov and June through August. Please do not write back to me! Write to: Hugh Williams and Hanna Bail Threshold Farm P.O. Box 701 Claverack, NY 12513 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE75FB.65F8D540 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Just Food.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Just Food.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Food;Just FN:Just Food ORG:Just Food TITLE:CSA Coordinator in NYC TEL;WORK;VOICE:(212) 677-1602 TEL;WORK;FAX:(212) 677-1603 ADR;WORK:;;625 Broadway, Suite 9C;New York;NY;10012-6211 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:625 Broadway, Suite = 9C=3D0D=3D0ANew York, NY 10012-6211 REV:19990324T183702Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE75FB.65F8D540-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 16:04:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18039 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA01665; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:02:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp3.jps.net (smtp3.jps.net [209.63.224.129]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01538 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:01:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from jps.net (209-142-38-86.stk.jps.net [209.142.38.86]) by smtp3.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17955 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:06:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F8DF1D.7C1525EC@jps.net> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:48:30 +0000 From: Richard Roth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Contract, program, and survey examples References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 723 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 I really appreciate the posts including excerpts from your contracts. I have never used a contract, but it seems that subscribers would prefer to have some kind of formal process for joining the CSA, so I have started a text file of examples I like. A while back someone posted how they get apprentices, working 4 hours/wk for 24 weeks to earn a SHARE with no SHARE until completing at least 18 weeks. I used it and now have my first apprentice, a long time friend. I'd appreciate more examples of contracts, newsletters, and end of season surveys. I am amazed at how much you guys DO! How do you DO it Dory and Art? Richard Roth rfarm 1318 Bruce Street Chico, CA 95928 Ph:(530) 895-1672 . From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 19:04:12 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03376 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:04:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA15685; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:02:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15589 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:01:24 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dYTTa26763 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:00:06 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:00:06 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Contract, program, and survey examples Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 363 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 In a message dated 3/24/99 4:04:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, rfarm@jps.net writes: << How do you DO it Dory and Art? >> Mostly I let my housework slide into a deep dark pit. I set up a chemical toilet outside so there's no excuse for anybody to see the inside of the house. Of course, the barn is spotless. So nobody guesses. What's your secret, Art? Dori From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 20:08:16 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17307 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:08:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA20386; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:06:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20322 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:05:26 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dMOWa03976 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:00:30 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:00:30 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Contract, program, and survey examples Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 523 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 << What's your secret, Art? >> A beautiful wife, passion for co-creation and a type A personality. Our house looks like crap too. Clutter, fading exterior paint, dated interior design and a leaky roof keep us happy to be outside. I've never been with a dying person who said, "Damn, I wish I kept a cleaner house." But I've heard so much other remorseful advice I'd be a fool to ignore it. Besides, the dust of my ancestors resides in the corners of my house and my compost piles. Blessed are the ancestors....Art From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 21:58:21 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11036 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:58:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA26839; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:56:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from web611.mail.yahoo.com (web611.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.178]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA26750 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:55:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990325025540.4095.rocketmail@web611.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.11.68.179] by web611.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:55:40 PST Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:55:40 -0800 (PST) From: jared volpe To: CSA list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 3189 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 I find myself in an interesting predicament. I am much more than an apprentice, but less than an independent farm manager. More like a CSA manager / Apprentice Coordinator / Co-Manager that works with a team of managers. It is not that I cant run a farm by my lonesome, but I wont do it. I dont want to. I want community. More importantly, it is getting late to join the 1999 growing season. I am deeply committed to sustainability and sustainable agriculture in particular. It is for this reason that I have directed my energy to observing the environment and how we exist in it. As Sandra Faber, a scientist at UC Santa Cruz, puts it, all our telescopes looking billions of light years into space have not found one thing to compare in beauty, complexity or wonder to our own planet Earth. My goal is to help guide our moral compass, providing us with a long term strategy for successfully and sustainably existing here. I have excellent research and organizational skills and am longing for a stage to use them along with my commitment to sustainable agriculture and my agricultural skills. I am very personable and I want to take my experiences ever further, into a realm where I am part of a team of growers, activists, and organizers that run a CSA and education group. I dont feel that I am currently using my skills to the best of my ability in terms of education and the distribution of information sustainable, etc. Last year I frequented the Catskill Mountains of New York, where I worked as the Production Grower and Assistant Horticulture Therapist at Green Chimneys Childrens Services, a residential treatment facility for emotionally disturbed youth. I was hired as grower at Boni-Bel Farm after one quarter of the season passed me by. The management was in a bind because the previous grower left on short notice, with most of her volunteers. I happened to be in the right place. There were four acres under transitional organic production, whose mission was to supply produce and vocational experience for 120 students and any of the 200 staff at the facility. I feel that Green Chimneys started the program to boast an organic farm. I was the fifth grower in the farms young five year life, an unsustainable pattern. Unfortunately I wasnt given a chance or much support and was working alone for most of the season, except for occasional volunteers and classes. Previously I attended graduate school in NYC as a non-matriculated student studying the environmental problems of urban and metropolitan coasts and I did two apprenticeships and worked on local farms. I am very flexible and therefore open to all opportunities that may arise. If you are looking for such an individual or know someone who is please pass on my info or contact me directly. I am glad to furnish a resume and references. Also, I am looking for other sites where I may post this on the net. Thanks for letting me ramble. Jared William Volpe nuarez@yahoo.com e-mail happens to be the best way to reach me 516-756-0037 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 22:02:06 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12121 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:02:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA27469; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:00:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27109 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:59:43 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dEOCa13701 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:48:05 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <4482f8c9.36f9a3e5@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:48:05 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The housekeeping of world-savers (was Contract, program, and survey examples Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1765 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 I _do_ sweep, mop, and vacuum often enough to keep my house pets clear of fleas and my asthmatic cat (and self) breathing reasonably well without resorting to rescue inhalers too terribly often. But today I had to pay $8 for a duplicate driver's license because my original ended up in one of those sudden "CLUTTER - PUT ME AWAY" boxes from those days when the @(^@^( real estate agent wouldn't give me the 48 hours' notice I'd contracted for, and called me that day with "a really hot prospect". Swearing all the way, there's nothing I can do but swoosh the clutter into boxes and stack them in a spare room. In six months that man never got the message. The problem with a big 1878 13-room farmhouse lacking housemates is that there are too darn many spare rooms, too much room for those boxes. Someplace there's a box or two full of dirty dishes still unwashed. Better find that one before the hot weather arrives! And I really have to find my buck's registration papers before this year's daughters have babies and the new owners want to register them. I saw them not too long ago, but Cthulhu only knows where they've gotten off to. I thought they were in the file. Oopsie. Like the deed and title, that's a piece of paper that probably ought to live in a bank deposit box. There are now about a dozen CPMA boxes left -- I've unpacked more than 20 of the little stinkers in the past four weeks. And I didn't renew with that agent. If the place goes back on the market, my 48-hour request will be honored or they'll be sorry. And now y'all know why I offer a good chunk off the rent to anybody who's willing to help me keep the house clean. I'd rather be playing in the garden! Dori "She Who Must Be Obeyed" Green by real estate agents, anyway From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 25 08:25:01 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12089 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:25:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20112; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:21:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from ic4.ithaca.edu (ic4.ithaca.edu [147.129.1.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20048 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:20:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from ithaca.edu (ic069163.ithaca.edu [147.129.69.163]) by ic4.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #30132) with ESMTP id <01J98O6WAW10000A7L@ic4.ithaca.edu> for csa-L@prairienet.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:20:16 EST Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:22:47 -0500 From: Debbie Teeter Subject: Thanks for the laugh To: csa-L@prairienet.org Message-id: <36FA38A7.A5574B46@ithaca.edu> Organization: Ithaca College MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 979 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 Dori & Art - I'll be laughing the rest of the day about your responses - someone once told me "all farm houses look this way" in response to a mortified "sorry the house is such a wreck" when someone surprised me inside. Great idea about the toilet, Dori - that's one I can never quite get around - "uh, the bathroom? uh, sure... through the kitchen and past the laundry room (use your imagination)". Debbie SCook21809@aol.com wrote: > << What's your secret, Art? >> > > A beautiful wife, passion for co-creation and a type A personality. Our house > looks like crap too. Clutter, fading exterior paint, dated interior design > and a leaky roof keep us happy to be outside. I've never been with a dying > person who said, "Damn, I wish I kept a cleaner house." But I've heard so > much other remorseful advice I'd be a fool to ignore it. Besides, the dust of > my ancestors resides in the corners of my house and my compost piles. Blessed > are the ancestors....Art From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 25 11:36:26 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27101 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:36:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA04328; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:31:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04258 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:31:16 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA01163; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:30:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-194.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.194) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001133; Thu Mar 25 10:30:28 1999 Message-ID: <004701be76dc$8da78000$c2fa6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Debbie Teeter" , Subject: Re: Thanks for the laugh Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:28:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1324 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 Debbie wrote: Dori & Art - I'll be laughing the rest of the day about your responses - someone once told me "all farm houses look this way" in response to a mortified "sorry the house is such a wreck" when someone surprised me inside. Great idea about the toilet, Dori - that's one I can never quite get around - "uh, the bathroom? uh, sure... through the kitchen and past the laundry room (use your imagination)". Debbie I join you in laughing. I have never been neat, I genuinely don't understand how anyone "naturally" keeps their house neat. I live in a continous cycle of trashed binge clean trashed binge clean.........LOL about "uh, the bathroom" you have to walk through the kitchen to get to it ah! Our farm was put in a Massachusetts directory and listed a bit wrong. I told her the only thing we offer is tours by appointment (time to clean). I didn't notice but it listed us a farm stand, public bathroom etc. Two ladies showed up from the Boston area they wanted to paint, which I thought was cool and said ok, but they both had to go to the bathroom. Well the bathroom was recently remodeled so it looks ok, but the kitchen. I was cleaning it so it wasn't as bad a usual in fact I thought the vacum cleaner spralled out across the floor was a nice touch. Don't even mention springtime mud! Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 25 12:55:09 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16641 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:55:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA11255; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:53:08 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11159 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:52:20 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dFPPa18039 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:36:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <685fee1b.36fa7430@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:36:48 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Thanks for the laugh Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1980 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 In a message dated 3/25/99 11:32:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, guldann@ix.netcom.com writes: << Don't even mention springtime mud! >> What mud? My barn and farm and gardens are spotless all of the time, mud isn't allowed, all of those city folk who show up to dance through the fields in their high heels and sandals are perfectly enthralled with the pristeen and sanitary conditions here. There, I can lie just like a politician. Reality: BIG sign next to the parking area: This is an organic farm. Watch where you step. Hint for what it's worth: A few fork-fulls of hay and other stuff from the barn does a good job of slip- proofing a slick clay path. Spread about 6" thick on the front lawn for a couple of weeks right at spring thaw time it also does a great job of killing grass so you can plant more edible flowers. (Hey, if you can find a restaurant nearby and can deliver daily, $1 an ounce is a price they'll often jump at. Really a good item if you've got children looking for something to do -- four-year-olds have this penchant for picking flowers without the stems, so many visitors toddle up to me with big handfuls and big smiles of stem-less tulips every year. Catch 'em being good, steer them toward the pansy bed.) Dori's freebie marketing tip for the day. Not just talking through my hat here -- a 10x10' bed of pansies cost me about $100 to set up from transplants, about another $100 for paid helpers to help dig the bed and plant the flowers when my knee threw a fit. Sales to just one restaurant netted (not grossed) more than $600 after subtracting those expenses. Believe me, those babies were carefully mulched for the winter. Speaking of which, it's time to rake off the mulch tomorrow. I bought a lot of pansy seed this year, and will be growing a goodly number of them in raised trays so I can harvest more easily. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 07:57:31 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09276 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA13326; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:56:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13241 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:55:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from busson (akr-romp-56-46.raex.com [204.42.56.46]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20674 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:56:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be7787$a6c57000$2e382acc@busson> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: Dragonfly Farm Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:53:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1056 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 Hello all, I have been lurking for a little while and wanted to introduce myself. My name is Carol and we are certified organic for the 5th year now. This is our first year to try a CSA. We have wholesaled most stuff to a couple of local health food stores, and last year successfully tried a near by farmers market. I have a lot of reservations about CSAs but hope it may work out for us. I was encouraged that there was even one other person who is uncomfortable directing folks through the chaos to the bathroom. And I was shocked to learn that maybe we are in competition for "Mud Capital of the World", I was certain we were the only ones! Wondering how all of you found your original customers for your first CSA year. It is unlikely to be the folks in our own neighborhood as they are mostly gardening themselves. I have a letter printed up but I am hung up on distribution of it. Has anyone had success with small weekly newpapers? I know it is getting late in the season. Glad to have connected with this group, Carol Northeast Ohio From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 08:24:38 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15087 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:24:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14733; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:23:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail.bwn.net (bwnmail.bwn.net [209.54.96.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14678 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:23:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from bwn.net [209.141.216.138] by mail.bwn.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.07) id AA784180202; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:24:08 MST Message-ID: <36FB8828.7F14D709@bwn.net> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:14:17 -0700 From: Susan Oberle Organization: Oberle Botanical X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA list Subject: New, too Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1495 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 Hi, Thought I'd introduce myself. I found this list awhile back & have also been lurking until I saw the mud & messy house posts! Here I thought I was the only one. The seasonal mess has begun! We're in N. Colorado & have about 2 acres. Our operation is kind of a hybrid CSA/ Delivery service. The land we are on is rented & the owner lives in an adjacent house so it's not appropriate for us to have lots of people on the property. We sell punch cards at 3 levels (individual, couple, family) & keep a weekly telephone message as to what's available that week. If a member is interested, they leave a message & get a delivery. Members subscribe in Feb/March (they get a discount for subscribing in Feb - the season of almost no cash flow) & can also use their punches for plants & Christmas wreaths. This seems to be working pretty well. I made up a brochure & posted them around town; we reached our limit w/in a month. We're not certified organic but follow organic practice for the most part. Our two big no no's are not always buying organic seed & using a slow release fertilizer in the GH. To date, I'm doing this more than full time & my husband still has a regular job & this one as well. Glad to be here & able to learn & share Sue -- ==================================================== Sue Oberle Oberle Botanical 832 Timber Lane Fort Collins, CO 80521 voice:(970) 493-5672 fax: (970) 493-3358 mailto:soberle@bwn.net ==================================================== From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 10:28:41 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17219 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:28:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23872; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:26:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23648 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:24:55 -0600 (CST) From: STannehill@aol.com Received: from STannehill@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dAINa17110 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:22:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <73f6b372.36fba623@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:22:11 EST To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Dragonfly Farm Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1225 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 Dear Carol, As the "computer geek" for a 185 member CSA that is going into it's 4th year, perhaps I can help. We advertised in local weekly papers. Some co-ops were amenable to us leaving our brochures. We started with a mailing base of people who had belonged to a CSA that stopped due to exhaustion on the part of the people running it..... I would also suggest places using "cheap shot" demographics. Seventh Day Adventists are vegetarian and may be interested Unitarian Universalists are often interested in social issues..... You get the picture, and yes for any of you who feel slighted or offended, I apologize. I'm offering suggestions to get you started. Our finding after doing all kinds of things to advertise is that word of mouth is best. In the newsletter advertising our two festivals ( one mid summer and one in the fall) I include a "coupon" good for a free sample share.We encourage members to bring guests and let the guests use the coupon to take home a bag of fresh veggies. We can only do that because the farmer has a 400 acre organic farm and the CSA is only 10-15% of his business. He DOES grow some stuff for us, but there's always extra. Hope that helps Sue Tannehill for Porter Farms CSA Elba, NY From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 10:56:48 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24946 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26315; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:54:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from tracker.excite.com (tracker-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.217]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26258 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:54:41 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from digger.excite.com ([199.172.152.82]) by tracker.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990326155407.TVWM18393.tracker@digger.excite.com> for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:54:07 -0800 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Dragonfly Farm Message-Id: <922463650.7051.4@excite.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:54:10 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.180 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1773 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 Carol, We are in our second season and have gotten the word out thru a few avenues. We have a letter that explains who, what and where we are and how much that I either send out to people (more on that) or post at the local health food stores/co-op. Actually the letter is only sent out now and a shorter flyer with rip off tabs with phone #/email on is posted at the above mentioned places. Word of mouth is good. You could try writing up a news realease and sending it out to all media. I have not doen this yet but have heard from others that it works well. Have a festival open to the public to promote your farm and the CSA (invite media to this). Develop a mailing list. At your market put out a legal pad with a header that says something about the CSA and how to get more info, folks will write down names and address all day for you. If you belong to OEFFA (I notice you too are from Ohio) get a hold of the member directory and sent a flier to everyone in your area. If you pay bills thru the mail with local companies enclose a flier with payment. Leave fiers at the bank and post office and anyplace else with a public bulletin board. find any cooking schools/classes and leave fliers with those people to pass out to students (cooks will actually know what to do with this food too!). And of course word of mouth works wonders. Hey a website doesn't hurt either (if you have the time. Yeah right.....) ; ) Our members are either word of mouth or from a Co-op we belong too so far. I have had inqueries from the web site but they were out of our range. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 11:39:44 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06239 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:39:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29701; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:38:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29607 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:38:03 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dKVa014279 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:36:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <62889158.36fbb788@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:36:24 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Recruiting Members Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1417 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 In a message dated 3/26/99 7:56:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, busson@raex.com writes: << Wondering how all of you found your original customers for your first CSA year. >> To this day, my very best recruitment methods are presentations at local churches, synagogues, and mosques. These folks know something about cooperating, working in committees, and things having a value and purpose beyond the almighty dollar. Sometimes I'm invited to speak to an adult sunday school class, sometimes I get to be the speaker at a church supper. I take lots of photos and a baby goat if I have one available, a chicken if goats are too big to fit in the portable wire cage. One local church has an annual farm appreciation day, and I do the children's moment. Nobody will ever forget the chicken who gave a huge announcement that drowned out the organ, and laid an egg while she was waiting for her moment of glory! I presented it with great ceremony to the mother of the youngest child there that day. And of course, there's that Genesis connection to the whole CSA idea -- why are any of here in the first place? "To till God's garden and keep it." No wonder so many of us feel disconnected and unfulfilled these days. CSA offers a convenient and enjoyable way to us to meet our most basic spiritual destiny! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 27 07:24:08 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA25125 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:24:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA02279 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:17:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28309; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 06:16:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28248 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 06:15:11 -0600 (CST) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D6QETGQL; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:15:06 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:08:13 -0500 Subject: Ad- Goats for Sale Message-ID: <19990327.071026.-387521.1.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-6,8-13,15-16,18-26,30 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 I have several does for sale- 1) 2nd freshener Saanen- CAE Neg. 0n 9/2/98, from heavy milk lines, $150 1) 3rd freshener Saanen- CAE neg. on 9/2/98, dam of above doe, gives in the neighborhood of 16lbs. $250 1) 6th freshening Fr. Alpine, CAE neg. on 9/2/98, gives in the neighborhood of 14-16 lbs. $175 2) ObieXAlpine dry yearlings, kids of above doe, $85- very pretty 1) ObieXAlpine kid, this year's kid from above doe, $85-dramatic markings 1) 1st freshener Sannen, due in May, doe kid retained. Dam is the 3rd freshener above. $150 I will give a 10% discount if you get three or more of them together. Write for pedigrees. Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 GOaT MILK? http://www.mazdak.com/goats/goatdex.htm Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 02:16:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA07636 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 02:16:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA00046 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 02:10:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA09608; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 01:09:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (bnet1.nwnetwork.net [207.138.224.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09521 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 01:06:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from [207.138.224.143] (unverified [207.138.224.143]) by bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:57:06 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Salad greens Date: Sat, 27 Mar 99 23:06:57 -0800 x-sender: sampsons@pop.bainbridgeisland.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Devon To: "csa-l@prairienet.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 I represent the seemingly non-existent agriculturally bound youth, in tenth grade and taking a self guided Organic Farming class working towards an eventual career in CSA based agriculture and/or research in this field. I am growing produce on a very small scale ( < 5000 sq feet) near Seattle for the local farmers market. I have planted an array of salad greens and am planning to sell onions, basil, garlic, and squash so far. Are there any suggestions as to what types of lettuce or other greens (and eatable flowers, etc) to grow for this market? What other crops and varieties have been successful and high value? Thanks for the input, Devon Sampson From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 07:20:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA09618 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:20:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA00155 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:14:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA14237; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:12:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14191 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:12:09 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA20488; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:11:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-13.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.13) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020478; Sun Mar 28 06:10:48 1999 Message-ID: <006101be7913$bf7c81a0$0df86ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "carol busson" , "CSA list" Subject: Re: Dragonfly Farm Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:08:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 >Hi Carol, Welcome. I have to laugh we pull two lurkers out because of poor housekeeping! Ah but you should see the garden. I'll answer your question as best I can and I have one for you. We had 9 members last year. 1 was someone our business partner knows, 4 were people I know, 2 were friends of one of my people, and 2 just "drove" by: we have cattle and 3 horses (2 at the time), she noticed the horses and stopped one day to ask well she got the long explaination and the next day she and her friend each bought a membership her friend has been my best member. This year I don't know, I only have two deposit checks so far (from new people) of the above I would not be surprised if 3 dropped out due to their "difficulty" getting here to pick up bear in mind I am not out in the boonies per say not really much farther than their grocery store. I paid for one ad last year not one call. I put flyers in a friends store not one call. Direct contact is were our members came from. Our goal is 15-20 members this year finger crossed. My question for you: We think a bit of wholesale is some thing we might be interested in how did you go about finding stores. And if I may be so bold to ask what do you charge wholesale? I haven't a clue what is a fair price for wholesale organic veggies (I know some store or restaraunts won't care that they are organic). Beth >I have been lurking for a little while and wanted to introduce myself. My >name is Carol and we are certified organic for the 5th year now. This is >our first year to try a CSA. We have wholesaled most stuff to a couple of >local health food stores, and last year successfully tried a near by farmers >market. I have a lot of reservations about CSAs but hope it may work out >for us. > >I was encouraged that there was even one other person who is uncomfortable >directing folks through the chaos to the bathroom. And I was shocked to >learn that maybe we are in competition for "Mud Capital of the World", I was >certain we were the only ones! > >Wondering how all of you found your original customers for your first CSA >year. It is unlikely to be the folks in our own neighborhood as they are >mostly gardening themselves. I have a letter printed up but I am hung up on >distribution of it. Has anyone had success with small weekly newpapers? I >know it is getting late in the season. > >Glad to have connected with this group, > >Carol >Northeast Ohio > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 08:10:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09885 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:10:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA10929 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:04:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA15609; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:03:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15568 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:02:41 -0600 (CST) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D6S3W9X4; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:02:39 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:56:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Ad- Goats for Sale Message-ID: <19990328.075804.-348741.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 Marv H., I cannot answer your question because juno won't recognize the email address set up on your end. Transportation may be the sticking place and I can recommend breeders up where you are. Let me know....Betsy Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 GOaT MILK? http://www.mazdak.com/goats/goatdex.htm Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 09:17:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA10415 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:17:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA25242 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:11:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16937; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:09:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16881 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:09:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from busson (akr-romp-56-57.raex.com [204.42.56.57]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05166 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:10:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be7924$54a47480$39382acc@busson> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: Dan - - wholesaleing Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:07:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Hello; We are lucky to have a large natural foods store about 37 miles away with a good produce department and a produce manager who is committed to buying local produce. You are right that most folks in "straight" grocery stores are not even a little bit interested in organic produce. Some even believe it is dangerous, having more likelyhood of e-coli, ect. We work out a price loosely based on what the big wholesalers on the west coast are charging, or the big places in Chicago. The produce manager we work with is very generous in his pricing. We get roughly one half what the retail is on most stuff. From my experience the whole thing depends on personalities and finding folks you can have a good working relationship with. Some big chain stores don't have the luxury of buying for their own store, a head buyer at a main store does it all and then just sends them a shippment. A lot of farmers around here who have access to a fax machine fax the produce managers a list of what they will have that week on Monday morning really early. I don't know if it is just a local custom but most of the produce gets ordered Monday -Tuesday. Call up all the produce managers and introduce yourself and ask if you can stop by and meet them now while the season isn't underway quite for them, ask what they most likely want to buy local. Produce managers are really nice folks almost always. Still, the reason we want to turn to CSA is the fact that the more stuff you can retail the better off you are, produce managers have been the first to tell us they think we would be better off not selling to them but selling direct to the consumer. so we are trying to work out some mix that allows us to keep doing vegetables . From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 11:52:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11942 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26336 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:46:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22191; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:45:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22125 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:44:43 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903281644.KAA22125@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 91873707; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:44:31 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "Devon" , Subject: Re: Salad greens Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:32:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 My favorite lettuces are include the Batavian types (some catalogues call them summercrisp). Sierra Batavian is a nice, pretty (red tinge over green, thick romaine-like leaves and great flavor. Grows in the cool of spring or heat of summer. New Red Fire is a beautiful red fast growing lettuce that can also take the heat. Cracoviensis is a little known but great early lettuce with nice red/green color combos. I have seen the others in Johnny's and elsewhere, but this one only in FEDCO. Grow some "mesclun" mix for the market...we grow, among others, mizuna, tatsoi, various mustards and arugula on about a two week rotation: cut two to four times over 1 1/2 to two weeks) and dig under, start cutting the next bed. Our edible flower beds are fairly ordinary, but we like the "gem" type marigolds for nice color (though the foliage is tastier than the flower) and most herbs. Especially oregano and sage. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Devon > To: csa-l@prairienet.org > Subject: Salad greens > Date: Sunday, March 28, 1999 2:06 AM > > I represent the seemingly non-existent agriculturally bound youth, in > tenth grade and taking a self guided Organic Farming class working > towards an eventual career in CSA based agriculture and/or research in > this field. I am growing produce on a very small scale ( < 5000 sq feet) > near Seattle for the local farmers market. I have planted an array of > salad greens and am planning to sell onions, basil, garlic, and squash so > far. Are there any suggestions as to what types of lettuce or other > greens (and eatable flowers, etc) to grow for this market? What other > crops and varieties have been successful and high value? > > Thanks for the input, > > Devon Sampson > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 12:52:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12712 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:52:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09572 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:45:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA24357; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:44:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from whidbey.whidbey.com (ns.whidbey.com [204.94.52.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24310 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:44:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from [204.94.53.61] (b1-53-61.whidbey.com [204.94.53.61]) by whidbey.whidbey.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA26005; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:41:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:41:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Devon , From: Petersons Family Subject: Re: Young Farmers Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 Cool! I'd been hoping there were some other young'uns out there. I'm 16 and I'll be running most of my family's CSA this summer on Whidbey Island. Considering that the average age of a farmer in America is around 60, I often feel very isolated. The next-youngest serious organic farmer I know of on the Island is 30-something. I'm attending Western Washington University right now and student-teaching Applied Human Ecology: Sustainable Systems, a class which works in Western's organic Outback Farm. It's great to be in contact with other young people who are interested in sustainable food production; however, Western's garden is still pretty small (it's probably not even as large as your plot), underfunded, and disorganized. This spring I'm hoping to get down to Evergreen State College's organic garden as a field trip for my class and see how they're doing. When I was in tenth grade I did an independent study/vocational credit at my parent's farm on organic gardening; some time I'm hoping to get a summer internship program set up with my old high school so that other kids can have this opportunity. I'd like to stay in contact with you -- my school email address is n9842334@cc.wwu.edu I'll be there until mid-June, then I'm back on the farm on Whidbey. As far as edible flowers go, we've put borage, calendula, violas, nasturtiums, and shungiku flowers in our salad mix at some point or another, but right now our favorites are nasturtiums and violas (little violets). These both grow vigorously and self-seed. The others take more time-- borage flowers are small and their stems are fuzzy/prickly, and the centers of calendulas and shungiku flowers aren't as tasty as the petals. Radicchio was supposed to be the big fad last year, but ours wasn't widely popular at our farmer's market. We often have a lot of success with growing weird varieties of fairly traditional crops like carrots, beets and beans-- we grow golden beets, chioggia beets (these have red and white concentric rings on the inside), purple bush and yellow romano beans, and daikon radishes. Some of our favorite salad greens are Red Russian kale, tat soi, lolla rosa lettuce, and bull's blood beet greens. --Anna Petersons Molly's Island Garden >I represent the seemingly non-existent agriculturally bound youth, in >tenth grade and taking a self guided Organic Farming class working >towards an eventual career in CSA based agriculture and/or research in >this field. I am growing produce on a very small scale ( < 5000 sq feet) >near Seattle for the local farmers market. I have planted an array of >salad greens and am planning to sell onions, basil, garlic, and squash so >far. Are there any suggestions as to what types of lettuce or other >greens (and eatable flowers, etc) to grow for this market? What other >crops and varieties have been successful and high value? > >Thanks for the input, > >Devon Sampson From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 14:26:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA14250 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:26:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27235 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:20:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA29696; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:19:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (bnet1.nwnetwork.net [207.138.224.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29634 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:19:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from [207.138.224.105] (unverified [207.138.224.105]) by bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:09:42 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: re: salad greens Date: Sun, 28 Mar 99 11:19:35 -0800 x-sender: sampsons@pop.bainbridgeisland.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Devon To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 A lot of people replied directly to me, not on the list, so this is a digest of what I recieved: from W. Bart Hunter: >Hi Devon, > >I'm sure you will get all sorts of advice from your post. However, I feel >the most important step you can take is research in your own local market. >See what sells well in your local super market and farmers market. These >"salad greens" should be your base line of what to grow--your cash crop >which supports your operation. Once established you can try additional >different varieties to see if they sell--if they don't, you haven't lost >that much. If you can find a niche market or crop you will be way ahead of >the game. For example around here spring lamb for the Greeks at Easter was >a big market. On the other hand when I managed a vineyard for seven years we >could never find a good market for table grapes--people were to use to the >large California grapes. Perhaps if I'd continued I would have succeeded, >but it was time to leave. from Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm: >My favorite lettuces are include the Batavian types (some catalogues call >them summercrisp). Sierra Batavian is a nice, pretty (red tinge over green, >thick romaine-like leaves and great flavor. Grows in the cool of spring or >heat of summer. New Red Fire is a beautiful red fast growing lettuce that >can also take the heat. Cracoviensis is a little known but great early >lettuce with nice red/green color combos. I have seen the others in >Johnny's and elsewhere, but this one only in FEDCO. Grow some "mesclun" mix >for the market...we grow, among others, mizuna, tatsoi, various mustards >and arugula on about a two week rotation: cut two to four times over 1 1/2 >to two weeks) and dig under, start cutting the next bed. > >Our edible flower beds are fairly ordinary, but we like the "gem" type >marigolds for nice color (though the foliage is tastier than the flower) >and most herbs. Especially oregano and sage. from Anna Petersons: > As far as edible flowers go, we've put borage, calendula, violas, >nasturtiums, and shungiku flowers in our salad mix at some point or >another, but right now our favorites are nasturtiums and violas (little >violets). These both grow vigorously and self-seed. The others take more >time-- borage flowers are small and their stems are fuzzy/prickly, and the >centers of calendulas and shungiku flowers aren't as tasty as the petals. > Radicchio was supposed to be the big fad last year, but ours wasn't >widely popular at our farmer's market. We often have a lot of success with >growing weird varieties of fairly traditional crops like carrots, beets and >beans-- we grow golden beets, chioggia beets (these have red and white >concentric rings on the inside), purple bush and yellow romano beans, and >daikon radishes. Some of our favorite salad greens are Red Russian kale, >tat soi, lolla rosa lettuce, and bull's blood beet greens. > > --Anna Petersons > Molly's Island Garden thanks for the advice Devon Sampson From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 16:13:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA15266 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:13:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA17183 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:07:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04879; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:05:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from jake.excite.com (jake-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.221]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04791 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:05:10 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from pounce.excite.com ([199.172.152.99]) by jake.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990328210436.DBPA17086.jake@pounce.excite.com> for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:04:36 -0800 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Work Days Message-Id: <922655076.24618.89@excite.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:04:36 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.197 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 We are having our first work day next Saturday. We Plan to put in a couple hundred strawberry plants and maybe potatoes (this depends on both getting to the farm before the workers do-both ordered and due the first) and some lettuce transplants. The real reason for the day is to get the folks who have promised to work out here to get familiar with the farm and begin to learn where things are. If we get some work done too that will be great. So far all the members I have asked seem really into working long hours in the fields (Wait til the reality pushes those romantic notions outta their heads). At this point we are setting our oporation up so if folks want to help we will assist them but we are schedualling nothing that is absolutely essential. At this point we are right on schedual according to the very ambitious calander I laid out in january (wow, that seems so far away now). We have the tilling begun, First peas and radish are in the ground, the first head lettuce should be transplanted tomorrow (Mon) same with the cabbages. We have laid down the first of the IRT mulch (a first for us using this stuff) and the week before all this activity took place we were busy getting compost screened and onto the beds that need it this year (and we will continue this for several more weeks) I anm excited about the coming season, I think it'll be a good one. It's the year of the Rabbit after all. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 07:25:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA27025 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:25:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA10763 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:19:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA13754; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:17:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13707 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:17:18 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA27963 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:16:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-155.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.155) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma027941; Mon Mar 29 06:16:11 1999 Message-ID: <00cd01be79dd$b0ae5160$0df86ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" Cc: "CSA list" Subject: Wholesale prices Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:14:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 Thanks people this is a good ball park. The Massachusetts Dept of Ag. has a web page, I actually rather like it. I genuinely believe this dept is serious about ag. (just get the rest of the branches of gov. to notice). Anyway they list wholesales prices by the week I guess. Does anyone understand how to read it. Its just a bunch of numbers. I assume it lists a quantity than a price. But it not the same quantity for each veg. I think it would be helpful to understand it in that this is where buyers are getting their conventional veg. Thank you list Beth -----Original Message----- From: Michelle Y. Crawford To: Dan Hook Cc: carol busson ; CSA list Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 1:23 AM Subject: Re: Dragonfly Farm > >About wholesale pricing...here in the NW on this particular island, you >get half of what the store will sell it for... > >Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, >27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > > > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 10:11:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29668 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA21097 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:05:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23173; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:03:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from whidbey.whidbey.com (ns.whidbey.com [204.94.52.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23032 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:02:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from [204.94.52.188] (b5-52-188.whidbey.com [204.94.52.188]) by whidbey.whidbey.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15570 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:00:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:00:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Petersons Family Subject: wholesale prices Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 On this island in the Pacific Northwest (Whidbey), I get two-thirds of the retail price for most of my produce. I have worked with the same produce manager for many years. He has been successful in expanding his organic selections, even though the store is a small grocery in a small town. This kind manager is also always willing to work with local growers, and has helped me a lot with presentation and pricing. I started with salad greens in an unmarked bag. He pointed out that my new competitor, with a label, was selling more even though the retail price was identical. I got labels. He also let slip that she had negotiated a higher wholesale price. I raised mine to match. I give him free samples to try out sometimes - like a new lettuce or bunch green. He is able to feature my produce in advertisements at least once each summer. It does help to know the produce people. In the larger stores here, I have less success in marketing anything other than high priced (wholesale at $7/#), cellophane bagged, labeled salad greens. The invasion of mass produced bagged greens has made it harder to market mine, but they are still the mainstay of my wholesaleing. I try to be prepared for the demise of this fad. Years ago, I made a good seasonal income with quality grapevine wreaths sold directly to wholesale florists who were even happy to send a truck out to pick them up. That market is gone - imports and wreaths held together with wires pushed me out. I've enjoyed the housekeeping threads. Here we keep the floor in a condition that you could eat off of (literally - there's lots of dropped chopped food down there). The last time we swept the main part of the house, John was startled by the amount of good soil collected in corners. We were tempted to throw in a handful of seeds and stand back. --Molly Petersons Molly's Island Garden From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 10:36:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00134 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27610 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:29:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA25488; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:28:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25433 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:28:21 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA19190; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:27:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-155.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.155) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019070; Mon Mar 29 09:26:56 1999 Message-ID: <014b01be79f8$579b5300$0df86ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Petersons Family" Subject: Re: wholesale prices Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:25:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 Dear Molly, Thank-you for the advice. LOL just let so much dirt (I am on my way) accumulate on the kitchen floor and plant seeds! I'll just install florencent lights I've already got water...........I'll get tour groups this could be good! Beth >advertisements at least once each summer. It does help to know the produce >people. In the larger stores here, I have less success in marketing >anything other than high priced (wholesale at $7/#), cellophane bagged, >labeled salad greens. The invasion of mass produced bagged greens has made >it harder to market mine, but they are still the mainstay of my >wholesaleing. I try to be prepared for the demise of this fad. Years ago, >I made a good seasonal income with quality grapevine wreaths sold directly >to wholesale florists who were even happy to send a truck out to pick them >up. That market is gone - imports and wreaths held together with wires >pushed me out. >I've enjoyed the housekeeping threads. Here we keep the floor in a >condition that you could eat off of (literally - there's lots of dropped >chopped food down there). The last time we swept the main part of the >house, John was startled by the amount of good soil collected in corners. >We were tempted to throw in a handful of seeds and stand back. > --Molly Petersons > Molly's Island Garden > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 15:00:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08073 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02506 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA20549; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:51:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (bnet1.nwnetwork.net [207.138.224.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20433 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:50:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from [207.138.224.135] (unverified [207.138.224.135]) by bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:41:14 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Fwd: Re: Salad greens Date: Mon, 29 Mar 99 11:51:12 -0800 x-sender: sampsons@pop.bainbridgeisland.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Devon To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 03/29 5:21 AM Received: 03/29 7:07 AM From: Pat Elazar, Pat_Elazar@cwb.ca To: Devon, dsampson@bigfoot.com Hi Devon. I like your enterprise & spirit & want to offer my moral support. I can't add alot to what Bart, Jim/Jo, Ann have said other than to maybe tweak your product line a bit: I like your commitment to leafy greens- those are generally acceptable, not 'weird' & keep their value even in harvest glut times. Any herbs or flowers (edible or other) are great. The onions are lo-profit items you might limit or try to incorporate as part of salad mixes? You mentioned squashes but not what kind. Those usually take up enormous amounts of room & are generally lo-profit items. Otoh, if you have the space, specialty squashes or pumpkins could be part of your marketing plan. Squash flowers are edible btw and look spectacular in a mesclun mix (special father's day mix, 4th of July mix etc...) You didn't mention beans? They are also widely acceptable, perform well during the hotter months & keep their value during harvest glut. While I'm ranting: People like convenience so package basil, flat-leaf-parsley & garlic together with a recipe for pesto (just add olive oil, pine-nuts, salt & parmesan to taste). That way you are selling knowledge as well as food. Good luck, Pat Devon on 03/28/99 01:06:57 AM To: "csa-l@prairienet.org" cc: Subject: Salad greens I represent the seemingly non-existent agriculturally bound youth, in tenth grade and taking a self guided Organic Farming class working towards an eventual career in CSA based agriculture and/or research in this field. I am growing produce on a very small scale ( < 5000 sq feet) near Seattle for the local farmers market. I have planted an array of salad greens and am planning to sell onions, basil, garlic, and squash so far. Are there any suggestions as to what types of lettuce or other greens (and eatable flowers, etc) to grow for this market? What other crops and varieties have been successful and high value? Thanks for the input, Devon Sampson ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 17:11:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA11584 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01519 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:04:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA01770; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:02:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01477 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:00:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from Sympatico.sympatico.ca (ppp13925.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.163.164]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA28691 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:03:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990329171048.0072d430@pop1.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1qbem96@pop1.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:10:48 -0800 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Hilary Chop Subject: Companion Planting Guide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 Barbara Scott - Are you out there? Barbara had given me a copy of "The Companion Planting Guide for Vegetable Gardens" chart by Gregory H. Willis. I am looking for where I might be able to find more copies. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Hilary From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 01:49:40 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA18334 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:49:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA08031 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:43:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA26086; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:37:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25979 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:36:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA10932; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:36:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:36:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Petersons Family cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: wholesale prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 I too am enjoying the housekeeping thread. There is a lot of soil wasted on the kitchen floor. I have also just had a time trying to share farm interns with another farm close by...they would provide the housing in the form of a 2 bedroom trailer, and I would find the interns and do the other farms starts, starting everything down to beets. I have had to terminate that share because the interns have been living with me and my children in our tiny house for a month, and the trailer is still not ready (though it has been on the property since last summer), no water, no toilet (even a composting one outdoors). It has been a real learning curve for me (again) to try and work things out like this. It is not only very messy here but we are not getting a lot of work done (except on the trailer), and on and on. Now the interns are NOT going to live in the trailer, and finally realizing that you can back out of a difficult situation, we worked here today. I think I have found another farm to share them with that has housing available and ready, they may be out of here in 3 days. As if there is not enough to do! I may never have interns again. Hoping some of you have made less mistakes (or different ones to pass on), Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 02:19:25 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA18564 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 02:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA13388 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 02:13:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA27390; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:12:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27332 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:11:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA14091; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:11:37 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:11:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Devon cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Salad greens and Devon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 How does one package basil so that it does not rot or bruise and then rot? I would add to the generous advice given to you Devon, that stir fry mixes, with lots of bolting florets of Asian greens are very successful for me, and I add gai lohn brocolli, broc. raab, and scallions to it also. I am on Vashon Island in the PNW, and our growers assoc. is working with all the branches of the local schools, homeschoolers, and with the district (trying to get the horticulture program up and running after a 5 year absence, but as an organic farming program)... I would be interested in knowing what has been helpful to you in terms of education. I personally think internships are the way to learn though I wrote last expressing great frustration with that situation at this time for me and so far this year. I'd be interested in what has worked for you. Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 06:30:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA20409 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:30:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA06000 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA02959; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 05:17:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from hissy.excite.com (hissy-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.229]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02904 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 05:16:40 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from flash.excite.com ([199.172.152.79]) by hissy.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990331111605.DQGB19621.hissy@flash.excite.com> for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 03:16:05 -0800 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Interns (was wholesale prices) Message-Id: <922878965.22613.102@excite.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 03:16:05 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.208 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 Michelle, Wow, what a time of year to be having this kind of problem. I'm glad the proiblem seems to be working itself out for you. Our farm does not do interns (yet) but I have some ideas about your situation. Number one, unless you live in the middle of no where and it would be very difficult to get to your farm, the intern does not have to live on the farm. Number two, You do not have to supply housing for these folks. From what I have been reading on the net-intern want ads-many of the potential interns do not expect housing, they also don't want to work more than 30 hours either (and they want a real farm exp too...). From a workshop I went to They said it is really up to the grower and intern to come up with a plan and each is different, much like the CSA's themselves. In other words don't give up on the intern idea-hey they will be a big help when you get all this BS cleared up and can concentrate on growing and you are doing an invaluable service in taking the time to teach these people to farm in a sustainable way so that they can carry on the skills and teach others. You just need to do more thinking on what you can provide the interns etc.. off season. I guess I'd also say do this on your own next time and not with another farm. Speaking of workers, we had a friend, who is now a new CSA member, show up at the farm asking to work in the fields with us, we said "sure" and he worked as hard as us for 4 hours straight (okay one 20 min break) and wants to come back. He did an excellent job too-followed our instructions to the letter. Maybe I'll find, for this year at least, members can be good workers (we lucked into a lot of exp folks). This is a huge change from last year - It was like pulling teeth to get a member out for any reason much less work, and the few that did work did a poor job and needed far too much supervision (we had one member who need constant supervision no matter how simple the job-he couldn't even pick up rocks out the field with out lots of instruction). This year all members want to work. I think I was correct in getting rid of almost the entire membership last year. I'm very excited about this season. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 12:50:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27511 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:50:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14287 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA25753; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:42:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from cubbie.excite.com (cubbie-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.216]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25653 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:41:52 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from doby.excite.com ([199.172.152.182]) by cubbie.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990331174117.LMGW19608.cubbie@doby.excite.com> for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:41:17 -0800 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Interns Message-Id: <922902076.1589.302@excite.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:41:16 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.140 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 Okay, Here is a short list of URL's that often post intern ads OFMA http://web.iquest.net/ofma/ Organic trade Org. http://www.organicfood.com They have a good message board that has intern ads occasionally http://www.agrisurf.com is an excellent agricultural search engine. They have scads of organic links I hope this helps some. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris Ohio http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 21:25:49 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08344 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:25:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21347 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA05335; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:17:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp1.jps.net (smtp1.jps.net [209.63.224.236]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05246 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:16:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from jps.net (209-142-58-125.stk.jps.net [209.142.58.125]) by smtp1.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12988 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:16:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <37026B10.421D2EC8@jps.net> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:36:05 +0000 From: Richard Roth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: How does one package basil References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 My experience says you can successfully handle basil four ways * dry it and package it (longterm) * cut it and let it wilt in the fridge without plastic bag (a week or two tops) * freeze it (long term) * cut it and treat it like fresh flowers in a vase - in or out of the fridge (a week or three tops) The fact that it is wilted doesn't affect the flavor when added to pesto or salads and is the easiest of the three ways, so this is what I do - but I have customers who are not as lazy as me and chose one of the other methods. -- Richard Roth rfarm 1318 Bruce Street Chico, CA 95928 Ph:(530) 895-1672 . From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 23:44:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA10880 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23560 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:37:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA12967; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:36:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12870 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:35:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from junkpile - 208.253.68.174 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:34:17 -0800 From: "Mary Manson" To: "Michelle Y. Crawford" , "Petersons Family" Cc: Subject: Re: wholesale prices Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:46:07 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <040011734040149CPIMSSMTPU01@email.msn.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 >there is not enough to do! I may never have interns again. Hoping some of >you have made less mistakes (or different ones to pass on), >Michelle Crawford That's a typical learning curve - they throw you a curve, and you learn. Now you're smarter than they are, because hopefully you won't get caught this way again .... but they will continue shirking until they run out of people, meanwhile building one hell of a reputation. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 3 10:09:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28672 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:09:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15115 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:02:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA13045; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:01:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12995 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:00:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool038-max13.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.4.38]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA13979 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:00:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990403070043.0082c850@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 07:00:43 -0800 To: CSA-L From: Fred Chambers Subject: OFF: Wheat... Hemp Re-birth In-Reply-To: <37050279.43BDFA5@digisys.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 Here's more on the options for wheat farmers facing low prices. Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:50:58 -0800 Subject: Some farmers lobby for legal hemp Published Friday, April 2, 1999, in the Charlotte Observer ------------------------------------------------------------ Some farmers lobby for legal hemp Falling prices make option more attractive By CHRISTOPHER S. WREN New York Times BISMARCK, N.D. -- Dennis Carlson sold his first wheat, grown on a field borrowed from his parents, in 1975, when he was 14. He earned $4.51 a bushel and resolved to follow his father, grandfather and great-grandfather into farming. Nearly 24 years later, spring wheat is selling for $2.91 a bushel, and Carlson worries whether he can afford to plant next month. "We're going to get a low price," he said. "And if we get a bumper crop, it's going to get lower." Battered by sinking commodity prices and rising costs, Carlson and other wheat farmers are looking across the Canadian border at a crop they say could help save them -- if only it were legal. That crop is hemp, a non-intoxicating look-alike cousin of marijuana grown around the world for its fiber, seed and oil. But long identified with marijuana both by law enforcement and the counterculture, it is banned in the United States as part of the war on drugs. As farmers from Hawaii to North Dakota to Vermont lobby state legislatures to study hemp's potential and make it legal, they are opposed by federal officials unwilling to relax drug laws even symbolically, whether by endorsing marijuana's medical use, or approving a once-common crop, hemp. Until recently, the White House's Office of National Drug Control Policy asserted that making hemp legal would send the wrong message, "especially to our youth at a time when adolescent drug use is rising." But in March its director, McCaffrey, indicated in an interview that his opposition was softening. "If people believe that hemp fiber can be sold in the marketplace for a profit, and aren't actually trying to normalize the growing of marijuana around America, to the extent you want to grow hemp fiber, we'd be glad to work with you," McCaffrey said. But as a profitable crop, he said, "I think it's going nowhere." But in North Dakota, where the Republican-controlled Legislature appears likely to enact laws promoting hemp, Carlson said: "We're all desperate. We're trying to find something that will change our outlook, and hemp is one of many crops." It does not help that hemp remains identified with the counterculture, its products -- from oils to clothing -- often sold in shops that sell rolling papers, pipes and other drug paraphernalia, its cause cheered on by marijuana advocates. "They are our worst enemies," said Gale Glenn, a tobacco grower in Winchester, Ky. "If marijuana didn't exist, hemp would be growing here on hundreds of thousands of acres." Legislation to revive hemp passed in Hawaii this month and has been introduced in legislatures in North Dakota, Montana, Minnesota, Virginia, Vermont and Hawaii. The federal Controlled Substances Act says the government does not intend to prevent states from legislating in this area. But even with state approval, hemp growers would need permits from the Drug Enforcement Administration, which so far has resisted. "There's widespread bipartisan support for this becoming a crop in North Dakota," state Sen. Joel Heitkamp said. "The problem is at the federal level." State Rep. David Monson, a farmer, school superintendent and sponsor of the North Dakota legislation, said, "I think 99 percent of the people in my district, when you show them the bottom line, they're ready to go." After Canada made hemp legal a year ago, about 5,000 acres were planted with hemp, said Geof Kime, president of Hempline, a hemp growing and processing company in Delaware, Ontario. Monson recalled watching his neighbor across the border in Manitoba grow 23 acres of hemp that netted about $250 an acre. "When he came out with all those profits, we were really upset," Monson said. ----------------------------------------------------end FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Walnut Alliance is one of many campus and local groups encouraging Cal Poly to explore environmentally responsible uses of campus green spaces. Visit and post at: http://www.csupomona.edu/~jmikeda/la401/cap/ (Clean Air Park Proposal) http://www.regen.org/bwecc.html (BWA's Energy Center Proposal) http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~muse/ (Multi-Use Development Strategy) http://www.rokcircle.com/bbs/ (The Wilderness Forum) http://www.thelyp.com/ewala (The Earth Water Air for Los Angeles site) http://www.ballona.org (Ballona Preservation Land Trust) From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 5 13:41:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07110 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA00095 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06789; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:32:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06596 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:30:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA06891 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:30:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2-45.ix.netcom.com(209.110.254.45) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006615; Mon Apr 5 12:28:48 1999 Message-ID: <005301be7f89$8c384e60$2dfe6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Ma. dept of food and ag URL Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:27:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 People have requested this address love to here what you think. http://www.massgrown.org/Default.htm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 6 18:18:56 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14727 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA08276 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA23990; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:10:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23869 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:08:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA22041; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:05:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-80.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.80) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022016; Tue Apr 6 17:05:19 1999 Message-ID: <009e01be8079$5ea01460$50fa6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Dan Hook" , Subject: Alec Baldwin Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:03:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 That was a very interesting post. Did Oprah win? I always wondered how she even got into trouble in that "mad cow" and e-coli was talked about on every show. That sort of power in the food industry doesn't seem "healthy". Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 7 06:06:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA23242 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA12617 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA00736; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:58:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from www.mebbs.com (www.mebbs.com [207.177.12.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00693 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:57:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: by www.mebbs.com from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 07 Apr 1999 05:09:15 -0500 Received: from boblkbns.netins.net [207.177.12.34] by www.mebbs.com [207.177.12.3] (SLmail 3.2.3108) with SMTP id 70DC476CEC9711D28AC90020182AA861 for plus 1 more; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 05:08:41 -0500 Message-ID: <001401be80dc$89b8c260$220cb1cf@boblkbns.netins.net> From: "Ron Boyer" To: Cc: "Ron Boyer" Subject: media Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:48:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-SLUIDL: 61667C97-EC7F11D2-8AC90020-182AA861 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 This may not fit in with the thought process of this page but I think that the power of the media isn't healthy.I don't know exactly what Mr. Baldwin has said but I can guess and I would like to know if he is educated enough in what ever he is complaining about to know for a fact that it is true or is he just listening to certain peoples opinion for his information. Oprah did not loose in her lawsuit because it could not be proven that she destroyed the market of cattle that were in no way sick from what she was discussing (mad Cow). However she did not know what she was talking about and her guest had a quest to destroy the cattle industry even though he used faulty facts and logic. When media people us their name recognition to promote a cause that they really know nothing about I think it is more detrimental then any one (food industry if you will ) standing up to protect their product Ron Boyer www.blackbeans.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 7 07:47:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA24066 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA28938 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA04057; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:39:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.thestreet.com ([208.241.190.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03992 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:38:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jherr ([207.38.252.24]) by smtp.thestreet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58593U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id com; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:27:10 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990407043207.00a7d314@mail.thestreet.com> X-Sender: Jherr@mail.thestreet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000 To: "Ron Boyer" , From: Jeff Herr Subject: Re: media Cc: "Ron Boyer" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 Sorry about being off topic, but I couldn't help myself. Ron's comments about the media drew me from my cave. Alec Baldwin and Oprah are not members of the media. They are celebrities promoting their favorite causes. But the lines have been blurred and, sadly, people assume these celebrities are crusading like journalists in search of a fair and broad understanding of an issue. They have lost their bearings and are a million miles away from the standards of accuracy and fairness that define true journalism. Again, I'm sorry about being off topic. Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with plastic mulch? -- Jeff The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA At 04:48 AM 4/7/99 -0500, Ron Boyer wrote: >This may not fit in with the thought process of this page but I think that >the power of the media isn't healthy.I don't know exactly what Mr. Baldwin >has said but I can guess and I would like to know if he is educated enough >in what ever he is complaining about to know for a fact that it is true or >is he just listening to certain peoples opinion for his information. >Oprah did not loose in her lawsuit because it could not be proven that she >destroyed the market of cattle that were in no way sick from what she was >discussing (mad Cow). However she did not know what she was talking about >and her guest had a quest to destroy the cattle industry even though he used >faulty facts and logic. >When media people us their name recognition to promote a cause that they >really know nothing about I think it is more detrimental then any one (food >industry if you will ) standing up to protect their product >Ron Boyer >www.blackbeans.com > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 7 09:31:56 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA25820 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA18361 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09197; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:22:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09135 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:22:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.8.149.46] [209.8.149.45] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id ACE41CD03DC; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:25:56 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:22:03 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: nation article Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 I think people should read the nation issue before commenting. It was an interesting issue. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 7 10:06:55 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26395 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26632 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12189; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:58:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12116 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:57:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990407135807.3157.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.211.18.129] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:58:07 PDT Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:58:07 -0700 (PDT) From: jared volpe Subject: Fwd: Re: nation article To: CSA list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 Oops, sorry Leigh. I am on a few newsgroups and on the others I can hit the reply button and my mail will go to the group, but for some reason with this one it goes to the sender. Anyway... --- jared volpe wrote: > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:58:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: jared volpe > Subject: Re: nation article > To: Leigh Hauter > > > What Nation issue? Did anyone read the article > entitled, "The Green Machine", in April's Harper's? > Is Monsanto sowing the seeds of change, or > destruction? > > --- Leigh Hauter wrote: > > I think people should read the nation issue before > > commenting. It was an > > interesting issue. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 8 02:09:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA18325 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA21290 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA26097; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:01:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25740 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:00:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA08293; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:59:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:59:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Jeff Herr cc: Ron Boyer , CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: media In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990407043207.00a7d314@mail.thestreet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 On the quack grass topic...hot compost or hot manure with black plastic over it works well against quack grass on Vashon Island, WA...it takes 2 months in warm weather, and around 4 in cool... I would like to say that we in Western WA are having the coldest wettest spring in 40 years (give or take) and we may all move south soon. Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Jeff Herr wrote: > Sorry about being off topic, but I couldn't help myself. Ron's comments about the media drew me from my cave. > > Alec Baldwin and Oprah are not members of the media. They are celebrities promoting their favorite causes. But the lines have been blurred and, sadly, people assume these celebrities are crusading like journalists in search of a fair and broad understanding of an issue. They have lost their bearings and are a million miles away from the standards of accuracy and fairness that define true journalism. > > Again, I'm sorry about being off topic. > > Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with plastic mulch? > > -- Jeff > > The Cabbage Ranch > Carnation, WA > > > > > At 04:48 AM 4/7/99 -0500, Ron Boyer wrote: > >This may not fit in with the thought process of this page but I think that > >the power of the media isn't healthy.I don't know exactly what Mr. Baldwin > >has said but I can guess and I would like to know if he is educated enough > >in what ever he is complaining about to know for a fact that it is true or > >is he just listening to certain peoples opinion for his information. > >Oprah did not loose in her lawsuit because it could not be proven that she > >destroyed the market of cattle that were in no way sick from what she was > >discussing (mad Cow). However she did not know what she was talking about > >and her guest had a quest to destroy the cattle industry even though he used > >faulty facts and logic. > >When media people us their name recognition to promote a cause that they > >really know nothing about I think it is more detrimental then any one (food > >industry if you will ) standing up to protect their product > >Ron Boyer > >www.blackbeans.com > > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 8 07:18:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA21491 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA18912 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA03597; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:10:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03500 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:09:31 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.7) id dPEUa26562 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e47aefe.243de82a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:08:26 EDT Subject: Re: media To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 138 In a message dated 4/8/99 2:01:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, michelle@animal.blarg.net writes: << I would like to say that we in Western WA are having the coldest wettest spring in 40 years (give or take) and we may all move south soon. Michelle >> Hey, eh! (recently back home to spittin' distance of the Canadian border from a visit to South Carolina) -- Michelle, does that mean that San Juan Island property prices will be dropping so the hordes from the East who are starved for more progressive thinking can descend upon you guys? Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 9 02:12:19 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA15647 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA14054 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA01323; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:03:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01091 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:56:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA30793; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:56:10 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:56:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: DGreen47@aol.com cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: media In-Reply-To: <3e47aefe.243de82a@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 139 Dori, No the prices are not going down...but a lot of people are getting light boxes! Sunshine in a box, what an idea... We do value the generous thinking though. I have a farming friend, single, very amazing woman who just moved back to Wisconsin. She is happy to be home, but in shock after being in the NW where singleness is a non issue. She feels like a fish out of water, and misses the forward thinking as well. That progressive thinking can get kind of goofy of course:) Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 DGreen47@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/8/99 2:01:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > michelle@animal.blarg.net writes: > > << I would like to say that we in Western WA are having the coldest wettest > spring in 40 years (give or take) and we may all move south soon. > > Michelle >> > > Hey, eh! (recently back home to spittin' distance of the Canadian border > from a visit to South Carolina) -- Michelle, does that mean that San Juan > Island property prices will be dropping so the hordes from the East who are > starved for more progressive thinking can descend upon you guys? > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 9 11:20:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22350 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12014 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22184; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:12:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22080 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:11:29 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dADKa21908 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:08:20 EDT Subject: Re: Adjusting to Locations (was media) To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 140 I used to suffer terribly from Seasonal Affective Disorder ("SAD") which culminated every March with depression so severe that I could barely function. The cheap light boxes are worthless, but the good ones are worth their weight in gold. I convinced our local county mental health clinic to invest in one (it was more than $700) and install it at the public library. That's where I catch up on my reading once or twice a week during the bleary days. To give a hint of the "thinking" disorder in my neck of the woods -- the Corning public library is on the verge of closing due to lack of local financial support. This library serves an area of about 20,000 people. "Nobody reads any more" is the excuse voiced most often, then "But the Elmira library is only 20 miles away". I grew up three blocks from the University of Rochester. Believe me, there were some adjustments to go through when I relocated to this area in 1985! My mother's next-door neighbor in Rochester was murdered by a 19-year-old intruder out on parole. Suicide is the most common form of violent death out here in the country -- if we don't get run off the road by one of those crazy gotta-make-the-quote Schwann Frozen Food truck drivers. This adjustment was easier to make. I'm surprised that more people out here aren't making use of the new solar barn technologies, and I'm looking at having a demo barn put up here and becoming a dealer for them. Got an idea for a livestock/greenhouse/crop rotation a' la' Chicken Tractors. Incidentally, my little 20 acres of heaven here in lower Upstate New York actually gets fewer days of sunlight per year than does Seattle. I don't mind rain but unrelenting wind can drive me totally crazy. I have a pretty unrelenting wind here on my hilltop farm even though there's one more hill between me and the flatlands leading to Lake Erie more than 100 miles away. The wind gets a pretty good "oomph" going by the time it gets here. So I use a LOT of windbreaks, screens, and cold frames constructed out of recycled materials. And recognize that CCE might say I'm Zone 5 but reality is more like 3/4. Things also grow well here, and it's a place sorely in need of some new ideas about the definitions of Community so I stick around. At least for now. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com Sponsor: Summer Solstice CSA & Homesteading Workshop Weekend June 18-20 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 9 13:01:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24058 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09582 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28807; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:50:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gwgate.lib.iastate.edu (gwgate.lib.iastate.edu [129.186.11.21]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28719 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:49:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Parks_Library-Message_Server by gwgate.lib.iastate.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 11:49:43 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 11:49:39 -0500 From: "Jeff Hall" To: HPANDERS@aol.com, robertftf@isunet.net, smithfam@netins.net, csa-l@prairienet.org, pernell_74@yahoo.com Subject: Iowa State Daily, 4/9/99 (including name corrections) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id LAA28722 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 141 Student farm, CSA provide Ames with organic goods by Olivia Ogren Daily Staff Writer "By the people, for the people" is the philosophy of the Magic Beanstalk's Community Supported Agriculture program. In its fifth year in Ames, the Magic Beanstalk CSA project is a partnership between local organic growers and community members who want fresh, chemical-free produce. The program took off in 1995 with a grant from the Kellogg Foundation. What started as one producer supplying organic produce to a few participants has grown to five weekly suppliers filling 125 shares of food this year. One share is able feed two or three people. Marilyn Andersen, co-founder of the program, said one reason sustainable agriculture has gained popularity is because "people are becoming aware of the dangers of pesticides." She said Magic Beanstalk CSA gives people a better understanding and appreciation of the work that goes into producing their food. "People learn their food comes from the ground, not the grocery store," Andersen said. One of the participating farms is Heenah Mayah [Mahyah], an organic farm run by ISU students. Last season, the farm supplied peas, pumpkins and carrots to the program. The farm raises produce to supply shares to the Magic Beanstalk CSA for the farmer's market and donates the leftovers to the Bethesda Lutheran Church's food pantry. Ricardo Salvador, associate professor of agronomy, instructs student volunteers who work at the farm. Salvador said the farm provides students with more information than could possibly fit into one of his classes. "What they learn in a season is more than I can teach them in one semester," Salvador said. Contrary to popular belief, Salvador said organic farming isn't "a step back in time," though it is more labor intensive than common farming methods, and there's generally more planning involved. Pernell Plast [Plath], ISU alumna, volunteered on ISU's farm as an undergraduate and continues to do so, splitting her time between Heenah Mayah and Magic Beanstalk CSA. "One of the biggest things I learned is there is more than one way to do everything," Plast said. "There are a lot of time-saving things you can do." Plast also works for the Field to Family Project, a project linked to Magic Beanstalk CSA helping low-income families purchase produce shares from the CSA. Robert Carp [Karp], co-director of Field to Family, said the organization provides many services designed to help strengthen the local community and support local agriculture. "Magic Beanstalk demonstrated a new approach to food and agriculture," Carp said. "[This] shows we can support local agriculture." Members of the two groups help distribute the food among various food pantries including Bethesda Lutheran Church, 1517 Northwestern Ave., Assault Care Center Extending Shelter and Support and a local homeless shelter, Carp said. Carp said Magic Beanstalk CSA helps meet the demand for chemical-free produce. "People want their money to go to environmentally safe food and agriculture," Carp said. "It shows there's a real longing and demand for a farm connection and fresh produce," Carp said. Bruce Smith, owner of the Iowa Fresh Produce farm in Jewell, has been producing for the Magic Beanstalk CSA for the last three seasons. "It's not a business but a way of life," Smith said. Prev | Home | Next This article was published on Friday, April 9, 1999. Copyright 1999 by the Iowa State Daily Publications Board. All rights reserved. No redistribution without the express written consent of the Iowa State Daily Editor in Chief. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 10 00:29:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04452 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11898 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA12238; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:14:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12176 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:13:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA04610; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:13:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:13:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: DGreen47@aol.com cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Adjusting to Locations (was media) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 142 I CAN NOT imagine living with such a library. New farmers should look into such things...I do love the idea of having a good light box at the library. I'm going to bring it up to ours here and will let you know when it gets installed. Living on an island we don't have a lot of community centers and our library is a very busy place. I hope to meet you some day, rain or shine, Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 DGreen47@aol.com wrote: > I used to suffer terribly from Seasonal Affective Disorder ("SAD") which > culminated every March with depression so severe that I could barely > function. The cheap light boxes are worthless, but the good ones are worth > their weight in gold. I convinced our local county mental health clinic to > invest in one (it was more than $700) and install it at the public library. > That's where I catch up on my reading once or twice a week during the bleary > days. > > To give a hint of the "thinking" disorder in my neck of the woods -- the > Corning public library is on the verge of closing due to lack of local > financial support. This library serves an area of about 20,000 people. > > "Nobody reads any more" is the excuse voiced most often, then "But the Elmira > library is only 20 miles away". > > I grew up three blocks from the University of Rochester. Believe me, there > were some adjustments to go through when I relocated to this area in 1985! > > My mother's next-door neighbor in Rochester was murdered by a 19-year-old > intruder out on parole. Suicide is the most common form of violent death out > here in the country -- if we don't get run off the road by one of those crazy > gotta-make-the-quote Schwann Frozen Food truck drivers. This adjustment was > easier to make. > > I'm surprised that more people out here aren't making use of the new solar > barn technologies, and I'm looking at having a demo barn put up here and > becoming a dealer for them. Got an idea for a livestock/greenhouse/crop > rotation a' la' Chicken Tractors. > > Incidentally, my little 20 acres of heaven here in lower Upstate New York > actually gets fewer days of sunlight per year than does Seattle. I don't > mind rain but unrelenting wind can drive me totally crazy. I have a pretty > unrelenting wind here on my hilltop farm even though there's one more hill > between me and the flatlands leading to Lake Erie more than 100 miles away. > The wind gets a pretty good "oomph" going by the time it gets here. > > So I use a LOT of windbreaks, screens, and cold frames constructed out of > recycled materials. And recognize that CCE might say I'm Zone 5 but reality > is more like 3/4. Things also grow well here, and it's a place sorely in > need of some new ideas about the definitions of Community so I stick around. > > At least for now. > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com > > Sponsor: Summer Solstice CSA & Homesteading Workshop Weekend June 18-20 > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 10 04:55:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA06436 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA00982 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA21444; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:46:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from styx.host4u.net (styx.host4u.net [209.150.128.165]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21398 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:46:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from tonasketuser027.televar.com (tonasketuser027.televar.com [208.8.144.36]) by styx.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA12560 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:46:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199904100846.DAA12560@styx.host4u.net> From: "Terry King" To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 09:20:16 -0600 Reply-To: "Terry King" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 143 On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000, Jeff Herr wrote: >Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with plastic mulch? > >-- Jeff > >The Cabbage Ranch >Carnation, WA Hello All, I just joined this list as I research how to start a CSA type project servicing my church community. I'm in the usually sunny Okanogan of E. WA. where we have 2 inches of new snow this morning! As for using plastic mulch to suppress quackgrass I've had mixed results. It seems to work best if the area can be tilled and many of the stolons removed first then use a thick mil plastic, at *least* 4 mil, that thin 1 or 1.5 mil will not work. The quackgrass here will put roots down and grow up through thin plastics and cheaper weed block fabric even when mulched with several inches. I've also had it grow up through 2' of aging manure. I'm currently battling quackgrass myself in the area I want to put my tomato house. I will probably use a heavy commercial weed block fabric on top of the soil after I till enough to dry out and/or remove enough stolons from the soil. I'm interested to know if there are any CSA's in E. WA? All the listings I've found in WA are on the westside. Terry in the Okanogan of E. WA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 10 17:38:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15513 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14278 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA17021; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:29:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16936 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:29:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904102129.QAA16936@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 27671379; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:28:41 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "Terry King" , Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:17:35 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 144 we. too have had mixed results with plastic (but tending to be effective). Another option we have had some success with is a smother crop of buckwheat. By planting as soon as weather permits (it is tender) then tilling it in just before it goes to seed, immediately planting another crop of buckwheat, tilling in as before...as many times as your climate permits (3 crops in northern MI). Good dirt and few weeds are the result. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Terry King > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:20 AM > > On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000, Jeff Herr wrote: > > >Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with plastic > mulch? > > > >-- Jeff > > > >The Cabbage Ranch > >Carnation, WA > > Hello All, > > I just joined this list as I research how to start a CSA type project servicing my > church community. I'm in the usually sunny Okanogan of E. WA. where we have 2 > inches of new snow this morning! > > As for using plastic mulch to suppress quackgrass I've had mixed results. It seems > to work best if the area can be tilled and many of the stolons removed first then use > a thick mil plastic, at *least* 4 mil, that thin 1 or 1.5 mil will not work. The quackgrass > here will put roots down and grow up through thin plastics and cheaper weed block > fabric even when mulched with several inches. I've also had it grow up through 2' of > aging manure. > > I'm currently battling quackgrass myself in the area I want to put my tomato house. I > will probably use a heavy commercial weed block fabric on top of the soil after I till > enough to dry out and/or remove enough stolons from the soil. > > I'm interested to know if there are any CSA's in E. WA? All the listings I've found in > WA are on the westside. > > Terry > in the Okanogan of E. WA > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 10 19:03:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16244 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA08456 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA20056; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:55:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sparky.hampshire.ma.us ([198.3.35.25]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19983 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:54:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.usa.com (farmer [192.168.0.3]) by sparky.hampshire.ma.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23808 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:20:06 -0400 Message-ID: <370FD73E.EC80BA2F@mail.usa.com> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:57:02 -0400 From: Scott Reed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch References: <199904102129.QAA16936@firefly.prairienet.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 145 I've often wondered why we don't let the buckwheat reseed itself instead of tilling it in before it goes to seed. Why not let it go to seed and then lightly disc it? - scott Riverland Farm, Sunderland, MA Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > we. too have had mixed results with plastic (but tending to be effective). > Another option we have had some success with is a smother crop of > buckwheat. By planting as soon as weather permits (it is tender) then > tilling it in just before it goes to seed, immediately planting another > crop of buckwheat, tilling in as before...as many times as your climate > permits (3 crops in northern MI). Good dirt and few weeds are the result. > Jo and Jim > "The Community Farm" newsletter > A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture > http://www.gks.com/TCF/ > > ---------- > > From: Terry King > > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > > Subject: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > > Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:20 AM > > > > On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000, Jeff Herr wrote: > > > > >Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with > plastic > > mulch? > > > > > >-- Jeff > > > > > >The Cabbage Ranch > > >Carnation, WA > > > > Hello All, > > > > I just joined this list as I research how to start a CSA type project > servicing my > > church community. I'm in the usually sunny Okanogan of E. WA. where we > have 2 > > inches of new snow this morning! > > > > As for using plastic mulch to suppress quackgrass I've had mixed results. > It seems > > to work best if the area can be tilled and many of the stolons removed > first then use > > a thick mil plastic, at *least* 4 mil, that thin 1 or 1.5 mil will not > work. The quackgrass > > here will put roots down and grow up through thin plastics and cheaper > weed block > > fabric even when mulched with several inches. I've also had it grow up > through 2' of > > aging manure. > > > > I'm currently battling quackgrass myself in the area I want to put my > tomato house. I > > will probably use a heavy commercial weed block fabric on top of the soil > after I till > > enough to dry out and/or remove enough stolons from the soil. > > > > I'm interested to know if there are any CSA's in E. WA? All the listings > I've found in > > WA are on the westside. > > > > Terry > > in the Okanogan of E. WA > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 11 04:57:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA04227 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA06490 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA09879; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:49:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09821 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:47:04 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dLIPa07515 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <849d0ddc.2441bb49@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:46:01 EDT Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 146 Another hearty vote for buckwheat here, where my problem was Terminal Knotgrass. Millet is also terrific for weed suppression. I put it in for that purpose, and again to grow a crop for my chickens. Of course it was just a cover crop and in one of my earlier years so I didn't record the exact variety etc. -- but I just sold the last wrist-thick bunched ornamental spray of the stuff for $4.50 -- it was a GREAT crop and a ready market. I'd love to plant the same thing again. As an organic farmer I resist the use of nonrenewable resources, especially ones that pose a disposal problem. I worked for several years for Mobil Chemical's Plastic Films Division -- everything bad that's said about plastic is just the iceberg tip. Certainly plasic is allowed by most certification programs. But let's pull back once in a while and think about what we're doing and why we're doing it. I do admit that I'm still experimenting with alternatives to plastic for my melons. Tomatoes and peppers and epplants are doing great in my zone 4/5 with green mulches. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 11 10:24:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05831 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26277 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17366; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:16:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.58.198]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17264 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:15:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 708661617 (DYTNB103-42.splitrock.net [209.156.66.88]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA76262; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:15:31 -0400 Message-Id: <199904111415.KAA76262@pimout4-int.prodigy.net> Reply-To: From: "Vincent J McKelvey" To: , Subject: csa vs. other farm sales Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:14:24 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 147 hello everyone. we're a start-up csa in southwest ohio, just west of dayton, ohio (hello you folks who are doing the same in yellow springs). we have a great group of folks as our initial core and are very excited about working together with them. we're very committed to the csa concept but our question is this: for those of you who operate both csa and either farmstands, farmers' markets or other kinds of sales, how do you determine what goes to the csa and what goes to your other kinds of sales? obviously, the csa must have priority but it cannot be our whole farm income this year at least. i'm sure that a whole lot of it has to do with planning, but we could really use some specifics in how you actually do it. thanks for your help. reading your posts has helped move us forward, thinking that we really could do this. noreen willhelm & vince mckelvey spring run farm new lebanon, ohio From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 11 16:20:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09814 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11002 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA02380; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:12:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02330 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:11:41 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dKAOa01910 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:10:23 EDT Subject: Re: csa vs. other farm sales To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 148 My CSA is a relatively small part of my total farm sales. Garden co-op members (what most folks think of when they say "CSA") are entitled to a $10 weekly credit for the 22 weeks of the growing season. I've posted order sheets for the months of June through October at my website, complete with prices. If anybody wants to order more than their $10 credit's worth, they just enclose a check for the balance along with their order sheet. Profits from all sales -- CSA, farm stand, auction, grocery store, restaurant, farm market, and other activities -- events, workshops, tours -- are shared at the end of the season by all of the people who worked to make them happen. "Profit" is defined as the money left over after bills are paid and I'm reimbursed for the money I put out up front to get things started at the beginning of the season (so far about $1500 this year) and the insurance and taxes for the next year are paid. If somebody ended up putting in 10% of the total time, whether they designed websites or pulled weeds, they receive 10% of the net profit. This way we are a cooperative association with no employees. I usually plan and plant about six times what I figure I'm going to need to fulfill that $10 weekly promise. God must love drunks and fools, because it almost always works out well. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com monthly order sheets for 1999 at ord06.html, ord07.html....ord10.html From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 11 18:01:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11013 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09002 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA06667; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:53:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jake.excite.com (jake-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.221]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06604 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:53:00 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from ringo.excite.com ([199.172.152.145]) by jake.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990411215215.WFHB22643.jake@ringo.excite.com>; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:52:15 -0700 To: VINCEMCKELVEY@prodigy.net Cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: csa vs. other farm sales Message-Id: <923867533.348.770@excite.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:52:13 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.165 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 149 Hello Vince, Wow another CSA in SW Ohio. No I am not from YS but from New Paris just north west of you. We are in our second season with the CSA but have been doing farm markets for about 5 years now. We get the majority of our income from farm market sales than sales to two health food stores and a co-op we belong too and than finally the CSA. So far we have 4 paid shares and and a 5th family that will be paying soon. We have been into heavy planting mode the past few weeks so we haven't attempted much in the way of member recruitment for the CSA so 5 may be all the membership we have this year. At any rate, at this point we do not depend on the CSA aspect of the farm to pay the bills, yet. As the concept grows in the area we will get more members and the plan is to eventually depend on the CSA for the majority of our sales. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 00:49:34 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA15785 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA17094 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA27751; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:38:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27702 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:37:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool035-max7.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.2.235]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA14630 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990411213248.0083c190@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:32:48 -0700 To: From: Fred Chambers Subject: Any School Ag Programs Selling Subscriptions? In-Reply-To: <040011734040149CPIMSSMTPU01@email.msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 150 Hi y'all, Organic food can be cheaper to buy. You gotta cooperate! I'm doing a little project on campus at Cal Poly Pomona (California State Polytechnic University Pomona). The college of agriculture farms about 200-acres of our 1,477-acre campus, selling some produce at local farmers markets, in the campus Farm Store, and most of the crops get fed to campus livestock. My project is looking into market demand for a CSA-style weekly drop at the student apartments on campus. About 800 students live there, and according to my survey figures: over 95% would subscribe if a service were started. Question 1: What other schools are doing this? Most of my food needs are currently met through a small buying coop. We all pitch-in, and our selected shoppers do their thing. For the $24-$29 each of us pays per week, we receive an abundance of bioregional, organic, fresh produce, baked goods, dairy, condiments,pasta, beans, grains, etc. (Beer brewing is another coop, so doesn't show up in this study.) I'm finding that the money spent by the apartment students is about $10 more than I spend per week, and they are almost all unsatisfied with their inadequate consumption of fruits and vegetables. It looks like high time to expand our little coop to include the apartments, but scaling up may be tough. Question 2: What books and/or software packages can you reccommend for buyers coops? Question 3: Where can I find a list of (local) buyers coops? Thanks, Fred FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 10:17:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20768 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04590 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18474; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:09:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18358 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:08:12 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dXHUa07510 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5959348f.244355a5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:56:53 EDT Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: SCook21809@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 151 Greetings Vince, Most small farms that are around today are surviving because they have diversified enough. Don't ever plan on supporting the whole farm with one marketing strategy. You'll loose everything over time. A farm is a dynamic and integrated biosphere which requires diversity to thrive and succeed. A good rule of thumb is to develop a CSA that accounts for 1/3 to no more than 1/2 of your income. Its great to get that financial boost in the spring to cover all of the costs for your growing operation. But you better be producing and selling much more than the CSA requires. Look at Dori's diverse enterprise. She may not be rich. But she will always be there as trends and fashions change. Look to developing added value products you can sell to increase your farm's public recognition. We sell herbal soaps and skin creams, present workshops, sell at the Farmer's Market and have a natural foods dry goods coop in addition to our CSA. Good luck, Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm Bainbridge Island, WA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 11:08:19 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21769 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18485 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22135; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:57:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22026 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:57:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.200] [209.8.149.132] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AABC692008C; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:01:16 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5959348f.244355a5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:57:27 -0400 To: SCook21809@aol.com From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Cc: CSA list Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 152 Seeing that this is the busiest time of the year I haven't had much time to read this list lately, but it has been raining this morning and Art's message surprised me greatly. I'm sorry to differ with Art, but I know he's wrong. The 1/3,, 1/2 figures must be pulled out of the sky and not experience. Atleast not our experience. Our vegetable share program is well run and much less trendy than herbal soaps and workshops. And it works. We find it a very stable market, much more stable than farmers markets, selling to coops or restaurants. Each year we develop a stronger and more committed customer base consisting of individuals and families who want to directly support family farms and eat vegetables that they can see grow and not interested in buying produce from a faceless inhuman corporate food system. Additionally, it is mixing apples and tomatoes to think that the way you market is the same as a dynamic and integrated biosphere. Our integrated farm management has very little to do with whether we sell our crops directly through a share program or to a middleman. A well managed share program can be more profitable and predicable than other sorts of vegetable operations. It can also bring the consumer of vegetables more in touch with their food than other food distribution models. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 12:57:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24028 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20121 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00817; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:48:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00725 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:47:51 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dXRZa23591 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:32:57 EDT Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 153 In a message dated 4/12/99 10:10:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCook21809@aol.com writes: << Look at Dori's diverse enterprise. >> Just don't look at my housekeeping or that twitch. What twitch? You really have to have a strong dose of obsessive-compulsivism and attention deficit disorder to succeed at the multiple-diversity stuff, I think. If you like leaping from one thing to another, then it's perfect! Dori Did I mention that my only milking doe (Heidi, the website's poster girl) upped and died on me three days after I brought home three bottle babies -- leaving her 30-day-old twins as orphans? I bought a new doe yesterday, the mom of one of the babies, and named her "NOT The Momma" since it's true for most of them. Of course, her nickname is "Momma". Except when she tries to kick me in the face while I'm trimming a foot, then it's "KNOT-head". Thanks to the previous owner, who's agreed to wait for her money for Momma until I get Heidi's vet and backhoe bills paid. In return, I'm taking one more doe who's bred for an August delivery, a red LaMancha who thinks she's a Golden Retriever (even has her own Woobie she carries around). She's a perfect, perfect goat for a petting farm. I'll be rigging a maternity/nursery ward in the basement so she and her babies have a cool place during the heat of the day. Momma had a bull calf put directly on her as soon as I took Buffy away and her feet are so overgrown that her legs are out of kilter and she's got a suspicious lump under her jaw (which I didn't find until I got her home or I would probably have left her there). Of course she's in two-week quarantine with the babies and I don't even pet my guys until after I've gone back to the house to wash with hot water and soap. I'm having the vet come out toward the end of the week and if the jaw thing is an abscess we might have a little bit of surgery going on to get it opened and drained and cleared up before I put her in with the rest of the herd. And I'll have it biopsied to make sure it isn't CL disease. Oy, and somebody told me once "get goats, they're simple". They lied. I tell you, this diversification stuff -- especially livestock as well as produce and especially goats as well as gardens -- is not for the squeamish or those of low energy. Milk replacer would probably have worked, but the babies will grow so much better with real goat milk added to it. And of course the distraction of the new animals is very good for me, Heidi was my very first goat and we were deeply bonded. Of my herd of 11, five are her babies. Emotionally I'm still a hurtin' puppy today, that midnight decision to have the vet release her was a hard one -- but the alternative to this pain is not to love them, and I'll pay the pain price instead of the distance price that too many livestock people choose to protect themselves. I had her buried just above the paddock where new babies enjoy their first days outside, and I'm planting a pansy bed over the grave. Edible flowers, anyone? (oh, stop that, she's five feet below the topsoil). D. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 14:56:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26897 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28064 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11306; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:47:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from worldgroup.kingcon.com (worldgroup.kingcon.com [207.136.229.20]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11185 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:46:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:46:26 -0500 (CDT) X-ROUTED: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:46:32 -0400 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Sjo Received: from sjo [207.136.229.64] by worldgroup.kingcon.com with smtp id AOCOBFAA ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:46:22 -0400 X-Sender: sjol@KingCon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: From: Curtis Sjolander Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Message-ID: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 154 Hello, I'm sorry to differ with Art & Leigh, but they are both wrong. It depends on where you are marketing your produce. Not every person is a good candidate for CSA. Not every person buys at farmers' markets. I know of a farm (in another area) which is 100% CSA which is a stable sustainable operation. I know of another farm (in yet another area) which has 100% of sales to farmers' markets which is a stable sustainable operation. I can imagine an area where herbal soap sales would be more viable and stable than a vegetable CSA... If your area has a sufficient number of people who "fit" the CSA model, then a 100% CSA IS a stable market. If your area has sufficient number of people who "fit" farmers' markets, then 100% of sales to farmers' markets IS a stable market. If your area does NOT have a sufficient number of people who "fit" either model, then a stable market MAY be some combination. In an ideal world, everyone should be a good "fit" for CSA, but I have noticed that the world is not ideal yet! CSA accounts for much less than 1% (I would guess) of food distribution. ALL organic food marketing methods are still a small percentage of the total food produced. ALL small scale direct produce sales are even a smaller percentage of the total food produced. The potential is HUGE, the actuality is still very humble. In my area, from my experience (10 year farmers' markets, 5 years CSA, 7 years farmstand), I have concluded that 100% of any one marketing method or any one or small number of products is not viable. Is ANY combination of farm marketting and products viable and sustainable over the long term in my local area? Ask me in 10 years - I MIGHT have an answer. - Curt in Wheelock, VT still watching the snow melt... -- Curtis Sjolander sjol@KingCon.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 15:22:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA27440 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05350 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13189; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:11:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13126 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:11:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.200] [198.69.131.211] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A64E69700AA; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:15:26 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:11:37 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 155 Curt, you're right. I can't imagine living in West Texas or Western Nebraska, or Eastern Colorado and making a living from a vegetable share program. With the city growing closer to our farm (on an hourly basis) a share program works just ducky for us. The reason why we like a share program is its predicability. We know how much to grow, how much I'm going to sell and how much we're going to make. And the best part is, we get the money at about the time we start planting. It takes a lot of the financial worry out of the business of farming. And finally, shares aren't for everyone. There is a great deal of salespersonship in the business. Not just selling the shares but all during the season, working the shareholders so they understand the program and are made happy. It's not good enough to grow great veggies, you have to educate the customers about the program, process and vegetables. If they are happy they renew and they sell the idea to their friends who sign up too. Leigh From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 15:39:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28301 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10780 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14332; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:30:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14270 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:29:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA16880; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:29:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-202.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.202) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma016832; Mon Apr 12 14:28:28 1999 Message-ID: <005701be851a$6aa51440$cafb6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Curtis Sjolander" Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:26:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 156 >Hello, >Or we could say everyone is right :). Curt's right its not one size fits all. We are farming "part time" (its alot of hours for part time). Basically only CSA last year want to branch out a bit this year, farmer's market and or some wholesale(sort of retail wholesale in that we would market and deliver not a middleman). We are going to attend a agricultural convention in mid June. I don't know what to expect I don't know what I want to expect. Its put on by the Dept of Food and Ag. and its a two day thing. First day is for Big wigs including the governor, chefs, specialty stores etc. Second day its open to the public. They come into get a dose of "farm" we are hoping of course to get some members and some wholesale accounts. Its $150 for both days. And there will be press there etc. Any suggestions to make us look greeeeeeeeat! Unfortunetly it will be mid June which isn't when we'll have a bunch of stuff to show off. But I will have some stuff. I think I am going to steal an idea I saw a another convention. A vcr playing a continous tape of the farm, no sound just beautifull pictures. Just to save rewinding your make the tape so it show the same few minutes over and over. Of course I know what catches eyes its the animals so they will get star billing. The garden oh yea we'll throw that in. But we get a pretty good size booth what should I include? Beth >I'm sorry to differ with Art & Leigh, but they are both wrong. > >It depends on where you are marketing your produce. Not every person is a >good candidate for CSA. Not every person buys at farmers' markets. I know >of a farm (in another area) which is 100% CSA which is a stable sustainable >operation. I know of another farm (in yet another area) which has 100% of >sales to farmers' markets which is a stable sustainable operation. I can >imagine an area where herbal soap sales would be more viable and stable than >a vegetable CSA... From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 15:42:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28378 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11472 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14571; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:33:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14515 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:32:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA17416 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:32:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-202.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.202) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017270; Mon Apr 12 14:31:50 1999 Message-ID: <005c01be851a$e38c01c0$cafb6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "CSA list" Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:30:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 157 ->Leigh, ya said a mouthful there! Sometimes I love it sometimes I want to pull the shade! I would like to get more into cooking, preserving instructions think that would be useful/fun. Beth > There is a great deal of >salespersonship in the business. Not just selling the shares but all during >the season, working the shareholders so they understand the program and are >made happy. It's not good enough to grow great veggies, you have to >educate the customers about the program, process and vegetables. If they >are happy they renew and they sell the idea to their friends who sign up >too. >Leigh > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 19:01:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA03944 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17224 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29795; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:53:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29698 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:52:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904122252.RAA29698@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 205486644; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:52:16 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "Scott Reed" , Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:46:45 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 158 I think that letting the buckwheat reseed will work (though we have never tried it that way). Our goal is fast re-cropping when we are trying to smother, so we till it in before it goes to seed, at least the first time. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Scott Reed > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 6:57 PM > > I've often wondered why we don't let the buckwheat reseed itself instead of > tilling it in before it goes to seed. Why not let it go to seed and then > lightly disc it? > - scott > Riverland Farm, Sunderland, MA > > Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > > > we. too have had mixed results with plastic (but tending to be effective). > > Another option we have had some success with is a smother crop of > > buckwheat. By planting as soon as weather permits (it is tender) then > > tilling it in just before it goes to seed, immediately planting another > > crop of buckwheat, tilling in as before...as many times as your climate > > permits (3 crops in northern MI). Good dirt and few weeds are the result. > > Jo and Jim > > "The Community Farm" newsletter > > A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture > > http://www.gks.com/TCF/ > > > > ---------- > > > From: Terry King > > > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > > > Subject: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > > > Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:20 AM > > > > > > On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000, Jeff Herr wrote: > > > > > > >Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with > > plastic > > > mulch? > > > > > > > >-- Jeff > > > > > > > >The Cabbage Ranch > > > >Carnation, WA > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > I just joined this list as I research how to start a CSA type project > > servicing my > > > church community. I'm in the usually sunny Okanogan of E. WA. where we > > have 2 > > > inches of new snow this morning! > > > > > > As for using plastic mulch to suppress quackgrass I've had mixed results. > > It seems > > > to work best if the area can be tilled and many of the stolons removed > > first then use > > > a thick mil plastic, at *least* 4 mil, that thin 1 or 1.5 mil will not > > work. The quackgrass > > > here will put roots down and grow up through thin plastics and cheaper > > weed block > > > fabric even when mulched with several inches. I've also had it grow up > > through 2' of > > > aging manure. > > > > > > I'm currently battling quackgrass myself in the area I want to put my > > tomato house. I > > > will probably use a heavy commercial weed block fabric on top of the soil > > after I till > > > enough to dry out and/or remove enough stolons from the soil. > > > > > > I'm interested to know if there are any CSA's in E. WA? All the listings > > I've found in > > > WA are on the westside. > > > > > > Terry > > > in the Okanogan of E. WA > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 21:02:41 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06263 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18180 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA08586; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:53:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from stinger.excite.com (stinger-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08458 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:52:14 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from spike.excite.com ([199.172.152.97]) by stinger.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990413005120.MDTC15757.stinger@spike.excite.com> for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:51:20 -0700 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Off Topic Funny! Message-Id: <923964679.29942.359@excite.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:51:19 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.89 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 159 A bit off topic but during this busy time of year we all need some levity..... > > > >>> Technology for Country Folk... > >>> > >>> 1. LOG ON: Makin a wood stove hotter. > >>> > >>> 2. LOG OFF: Don't add no more wood. > >>> > >>> 3. MONITOR: Keepin an eye on the wood stove. > >>> > >>> 4. DOWNLOAD: Gettin the farwood off the truk. > >>> > >>> 5. MEGA HERTZ: When yer not kerful gettin the farwood. > >>> > >>> 6. FLOPPY DISC: Whatcha git from tryin to carry too much > >>> farwood. > >>> > >>> 7. RAM: That thar thing whut splits the farwood. > >>> > >>> 8. HARD DRIVE: Gettin home in the winter time. > >>> > >>> 9. PROMPT: Whut the mail ain't in the winter time. > >>> > >>> 10. WINDOWS: Whut to shut wen it's cold outside. > >>> > >>> 11. SCREEN: Whut to shut wen it's blak fly season. > >>> > >>> 12. BYTE: Whut them dang flys do. > >>> > >>> 13. CHIP: Munchies fer the TV. > >>> > >>> 14. MICRO CHIP: Whut's in the bottom of the munchie bag. > >>> > >>> 15. MODEM: Whut cha did to the hay fields. > >>> > >>> 16. DOT MATRIX: Old Dan Matrix's wife. > >>> > >>> 17. LAP TOP: Whar the kitty sleeps. > >>> > >>> 18. KEYBOARD: Whar ya hang the dang keys. > >>> > >>> 19. SOFTWARE: Them dang plastic forks and knifs. > >>> > >>> 20. MOUSE: Whut eats the grain in the barn. > >>> > >>> 21. MAINFRAME: Holds up the barn roof. > >>> > >>> 22. PORT: Fancy Flatlander wine > >>> > >>> 23. ENTER: Northerner talk fer "C'mon in y'all" > >>> > >>> 24. RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY: Wen ya cain't 'member whut ya > >>> paid fer the rifle when yore wife asks. > >>> > >>> 25. MOUSE PAD: That hippie talk fer the rat hole. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 21:21:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06446 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA22073 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA10079; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:13:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09860 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:10:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.244.182.210] (dialup-209.244.182.210.NewYork2.Level3.net [209.244.182.210]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04348 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904130110.SAA04348@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:09:19 -0500 Subject: From: "Jaclyn Oddi" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 160 am still tryng hard to unsubscribe but dont understand this alias/list/etc stuff cld someone pls put into common language the protocol someone must follow to be unsubscribed pls o pls? From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 13 04:45:51 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA12483 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA20513 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA01511; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:38:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01470 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:37:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA24458; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:37:15 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:37:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: DGreen47@aol.com cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch In-Reply-To: <849d0ddc.2441bb49@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 161 I would agree that plastic is BAD, but in the world of sustainable organic agriculture, with my personal single parent, homeschooling, activist, adopting, teaching, and grant writing, being available to my community who are more vulnerable than me, farming self...it gives me a way to have my beds ready when I am. The plastic lasts 3 years if you roll it up at the end of spring, and even longer if you are in a patching mode. This is a wonderful and hard living (farming...a lifestyle choice, as I often hear), and the sustainability issue in my mind involves more than how long it takes plastic to decompose at the dump... Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 DGreen47@aol.com wrote: > Another hearty vote for buckwheat here, where my problem was Terminal > Knotgrass. > > Millet is also terrific for weed suppression. I put it in for that purpose, > and again to grow a crop for my chickens. Of course it was just a cover crop > and in one of my earlier years so I didn't record the exact variety etc. -- > but I just sold the last wrist-thick bunched ornamental spray of the stuff > for $4.50 -- it was a GREAT crop and a ready market. I'd love to plant the > same thing again. > > As an organic farmer I resist the use of nonrenewable resources, especially > ones that pose a disposal problem. I worked for several years for Mobil > Chemical's Plastic Films Division -- everything bad that's said about plastic > is just the iceberg tip. Certainly plasic is allowed by most certification > programs. But let's pull back once in a while and think about what we're > doing and why we're doing it. > > I do admit that I'm still experimenting with alternatives to plastic for my > melons. Tomatoes and peppers and epplants are doing great in my zone 4/5 > with green mulches. > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 13 07:00:53 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA13124 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA12667 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA04043; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:51:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03919 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:48:06 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dALSa22984 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:46:57 EDT Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 162 Use of plastic is a personal choice and I didn't mean to imply any criticism of organic farmers who choose to use it -- especially since most of them do the extra work mentioned by Michelle of re-use and patching and using again. And I'm looking very seriously at one of those new plastic solar barns, and my experiments re: alternatives to plastic are continuing. Some folks might not be lucky enough to have as many rocks as I do -- I can pile them in towers three feet high in my heat-loving plants' rows, plus lay them as a mulch to suppress weeds. Channery silt loam, heavy on the channery. My cooperative extension guys continue to marvel that I "make" anything grow here. Hey, seeds want to grow. All I do is encourage them a little bit. And if we're going to continue to pave over the accessible river bottom land and turn it into WalMart parking lots, somebody had better figure out how to grow food on the hills. Everybody's conditions and choices are different. Viva diversity! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 13 14:01:12 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00836 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25775 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA01221; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:51:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-oe4.hotmail.com [207.82.253.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA01013 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:49:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 39753 invoked by uid 0); 13 Apr 1999 17:49:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19990413174932.39751.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 192.138.149.4 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:49:32 PDT X-Originating-IP: [192.138.149.4] From: "Laura Trent" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Q.A.I. Organic Certification Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:49:32 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 163 I am wondering if anyone out there knows about Quality Assurance International? They offer organic certification in 6-8 weeks instead of the 6-8 months required by the CCOF (California Certified Organic Farmers) process. Are they crooks, scoundrels or perfectly legitimate? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 14 09:02:30 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17679 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA24854 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA04104; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:53:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA04024 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:52:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904141252.HAA04024@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 75800535; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:52:07 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:36:13 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 164 One source of plastic that might make you feel better about using it is the scrap from lumber yards. Every load of lumber that comes in is covered with a heavy plastic that is almost all pitched into the dumpster. It is usually black on one side, white on the other. Though often in rough shape, many pieces of various lengths and widths can be found that are almost undamaged. Ask the folks at the yard and they will likely save the better ones back for you. We have used this material as a mulch, but more often as a substitute for those blue tarps that do not last nearly as long as the free stuff from the lumber yard. REUSE! Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: DGreen47@aol.com > To: csa-l@prairienet.org > Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 6:46 AM > > Use of plastic is a personal choice and I didn't mean to imply any criticism > of organic farmers who choose to use it -- especially since most of them do > the extra work mentioned by Michelle of re-use and patching and using again. > > And I'm looking very seriously at one of those new plastic solar barns, and > my experiments re: alternatives to plastic are continuing. Some folks might > not be lucky enough to have as many rocks as I do -- I can pile them in > towers three feet high in my heat-loving plants' rows, plus lay them as a > mulch to suppress weeds. > > Channery silt loam, heavy on the channery. My cooperative extension guys > continue to marvel that I "make" anything grow here. Hey, seeds want to > grow. All I do is encourage them a little bit. And if we're going to > continue to pave over the accessible river bottom land and turn it into > WalMart parking lots, somebody had better figure out how to grow food on the > hills. > > Everybody's conditions and choices are different. Viva diversity! > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 14 11:49:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21326 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02268 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA06637; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:40:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06426 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:37:33 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dYYIa01910 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:36:43 EDT Subject: plastic To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Reply-To: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id KAA06427 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 165 Some members in our CSA are concerned about harmful chemicals and off-gassing in plastic mulch, so we don't use it. We use living mulch (Dutch clover) and straw instead. I have not been able to find much specific information on the topic of the harmful effects of platic mulch, but I'd rather play it safe. Heidi Lewis Fredericksburg, VA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 14 22:36:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04818 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA12573 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08509; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:28:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08395 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:25:40 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dYEWa23591 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a5382cc.2446a5fb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:16:27 EDT Subject: RE: plastic and living mulch To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Reply-To: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id VAA08396 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 166 Hi Heidi, Could you tell me how you use living mulch, and which crops you use it with? I am a very small, very new, market gardener in DC and will be growing all kinds of leaf lettuce, heirloom tomatoes, tomatillios and a few herbs. Could I underseed the tomatoes with a live mulch? Thanks, Kelly Kelly, We use living mulch (usually Dutch clover) primarily in paths. I think you have to be careful not to let your living mulch use up too much of the precious moisture in the soil in the heat of the summer, especially with a crop like tomatoes. I have read about Virginia Cooperative Extension tests done using a cover crop of hairy vetch prior to planting certain crops (melons specifically, but vetch is great green manure for a tomato bed) the vetch is mowed down and serves as a mulch (as straw would.) Since it's also nitrogen-fixing, it could be dug into the soil along the tomato rows to add organic matterleaving the mowed vetch on the sides of the row for mulch. Anyway, I'm going to try it this year. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 15 20:01:32 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA13739 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA20109 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23658; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:52:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23564 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:51:53 -0500 (CDT) From: XOAXON@aol.com Received: from XOAXON@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dGZBa00659; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:50:03 EDT Subject: Re: csa vs. other farm sales To: DGreen47@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: XOAXON@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 167 Dear Mr. Green and all others who make up this list. My name is David Durick. For some time now I have had a website featuring articles from people on the land. The website has grown into much I had not anticipated. Now I have accumulated a little information and several requests from members of my list to put in a room on sustainable agriculture. I use information from those who are doing it mostly, and really could use the help of a few folks on this list. Maybe you could gain a few things too since a part of the site has to do with marketing. Right now I am transferring it to a new site, but everything works, I think. I don't want to spam anybody, but I would appreciate as many of you visiting as possible. I really do need the help. Thanx David Joseph Durick Fresno, Ca agrispec@aol.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 15 20:12:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA13977 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA22877 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA24779; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:03:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24735 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:03:42 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dHXTa25133 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5aa89a5a.2447d814@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:02:28 EDT Subject: So THAT'S the Problem! To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 168 When I approached somebody today about the CSA idea I got told in no uncertain terms that I shouldn't be expecting or asking people to finance _my_ gardening hobby. I didn't think to ask how it's okay for the supermarket to be paid for the food people buy, but for some reason it's not okay for me to be paid for delivering food. It's enough to make a farmer hope the comet falls and the supermarkets disappear and you can rock on your front porch surrounded by your burgeoning crop fields of open-pollinated food while these idiots crawl up begging for scraps. I didn't say all of my fantasies were pleasant ones. ;-( It's been a rough day. I've also got a neighbor who's decided to go after me via my livestock guardian dog, filing complaints with the dog warden because he barks at her kids when they walk by the farm throwing rocks at him. I've given them bags of dog biscuits to throw. I think they ate them. And a woman descended on me in a fury at the drug store today with "it's 60 degrees out and that poor dog is sitting in that car with all of the windows shut" (not true, the back window was open and my errand took a total of five minutes -- plus two more to listen to the tirade). The more I see of people, the better I like goats. Or maybe I should just decline to do any more Thursdays. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 15 21:11:56 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14716 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06610 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA27771; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:57:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27710 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:57:18 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dVOFa07981 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <29948ff0.2447e432@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:54:10 EDT Subject: Re: csa vs. other farm sales To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 169 Not to be nit-picky, but if anybody wants me to visit their website I find it helpful to be supplied with the URL. Dori Green Hey, I stuck it out with Himself for 19 years -- I EARNED that title, durn it! If I'm being mistaken for a "Mr." maybe I'd better clean up and put the earrings back on (they came off for the baby goat season -- once in my life running at top speed bent over double alongside a buckling with a dangly pierced earring firmly in his toothy little grip is plenty for me). They don't mention that stuff in the "Have Fun With Backyard Goats" books, do they? From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 15 22:25:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA16605 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25151 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA02647; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:16:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02593 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:16:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA09803; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:15:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-68.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.68) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009745; Thu Apr 15 21:14:55 1999 Message-ID: <002001be87ae$ae934960$57fe6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: So THAT'S the Problem! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:13:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 170 Yikes Dori pretty backbreaking hobby. Its easy for me to say since she didn't say that to me but guess you'll have to ingnore her, its her kind that has allowed industrialized farming to expand. And if you think about it the person who was so concerned about your dog suppose they'd like the conditions in say a confinement hog farm? Little tiny improvements in attitude thats what we are looking for. Remember its spring you have baby goats, and planting has begun...............my back aches and I am still looking forward to some more planting this week-end (the day jobs of the guys means we are a bit of week-end warriors). Beth >When I approached somebody today about the CSA idea I got told in no >uncertain terms that I shouldn't be expecting or asking people to finance >_my_ gardening hobby. I didn't think to ask how it's okay for the >supermarket to be paid for the food people buy, but for some reason it's not >okay for me to be paid for delivering food. > >It's enough to make a farmer hope the comet falls and the supermarkets >disappear and you can rock on your front porch surrounded by your burgeoning >crop fields of open-pollinated food while these idiots crawl up begging for >scraps. > >I didn't say all of my fantasies were pleasant ones. ;-( It's been a rough >day. I've also got a neighbor who's decided to go after me via my livestock >guardian dog, filing complaints with the dog warden because he barks at her >kids when they walk by the farm throwing rocks at him. I've given them bags >of dog biscuits to throw. I think they ate them. > >And a woman descended on me in a fury at the drug store today with "it's 60 >degrees out and that poor dog is sitting in that car with all of the windows >shut" (not true, the back window was open and my errand took a total of five >minutes -- plus two more to listen to the tirade). > >The more I see of people, the better I like goats. > >Or maybe I should just decline to do any more Thursdays. > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 11:07:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25154 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28936 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05404; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:59:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from m-5.i-link-2.net (root@m-5.i-link-2.net [206.129.152.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05265 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:58:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [206.129.152.144] (wormhole-a75.myhome.net [206.129.152.144]) by m-5.i-link-2.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA09714 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:58:46 -0700 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: "J. Eric & Karen A. Rains" Subject: irrigation Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 171 Hi, we are setting up for irrigation this year and plan to put a field pump in our pond and use rain tape/soaker hoses. We are starting small this year (only using about 1/8 acre for the garden) And, like many farmers, our funds are limited. I am just curious as to what others are doing. Karen Rains J. Eric & Karen A. Rains Lacamas Lakes Ranch jnkrains@myhome.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 11:30:49 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25604 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05419 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07232; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:22:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07172 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:21:54 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dKPYa21075 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2ba60e9d.2448af27@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:20:07 EDT Subject: Trees! To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 172 << Remember its spring you have baby goats, and planting has begun.............. >> Last week the ground was still frozen here so plowing hasn't started yet. Just as I got home from my "Thursday from Hell" and started thinking what else might go wrong and deciding no, I didn't want to know, I found a UPS sticker on my front door. Oh goodie, those late herbs arrived! Uh uh. The Fedco trees for the SARE project are here, a full month early! Bare-root stock all, about 200 of them. I'm going to call the backhoe guy and see if he can dig out at couple of trenches so I can heel them in right away -- complicated by the fact that it's raining and he's a little leery about my field when it's wet (we almost lost a John Deere out there last year). If I can't convince him I guess I'll haul out my walking tractor, a shallow trench will be better than nothing. Engine start-up prayers to the deity of your choice are welcome. Anybody within driving distance want to celebrate Arbor Day with me this weekend??? I'll put on chicken soup and homemade bread and we'll have a party! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY Maps at http://www.agrove.com/location.html From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 15:20:40 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00622 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA04760 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25677; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:11:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25451 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:07:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA09874 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/UPS) with ESMTP id PAA09232; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id OAA26316; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nyc1cdb.ups.com ([10.20.227.50]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id OAA26311; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002801be8833$90c9b380$32e3140a@nyc1cdb.ups.com> Reply-To: "Ann Sterling" From: "Ann Sterling" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Trees! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:04:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 173 Hi Dori, That's a lot of trees, I wish I was in the area, and could come and lend a hand+ACE- What kinds are they? Fedco has great apples+ACE- I'm sending up a prayer for fine weather for your planting. My husband +ACY- I are dreaming about fleeing the Big City, and are only farming- wannabes so far, but someday we'll make it+ACE- Perhaps later this year we'll take a vaca upstate and drive by for a visit to see your operation that I have so enjoyed reading about, don't worry we'd call WAY in advance, as we are not ones to step on others' toes. Best wishes, Ann Sterling New York City. -----Original Message----- From: DGreen47+AEA-aol.com +ADw-DGreen47+AEA-aol.com+AD4- To: csa-l+AEA-prairienet.org +ADw-csa-l+AEA-prairienet.org+AD4- Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 11:27 AM Subject: Trees+ACE- +ADwAPA- Remember its spring you have baby goats, and planting has begun.............. +AD4APg- Last week the ground was still frozen here so plowing hasn't started yet. Just as I got home from my +ACI-Thursday from Hell+ACI- and started thinking what else might go wrong and deciding no, I didn't want to know, I found a UPS sticker on my front door. Oh goodie, those late herbs arrived+ACE- Uh uh. The Fedco trees for the SARE project are here, a full month early+ACE- Bare-root stock all, about 200 of them. I'm going to call the backhoe guy and see if he can dig out at couple of trenches so I can heel them in right away -- complicated by the fact that it's raining and he's a little leery about my field when it's wet (we almost lost a John Deere out there last year). If I can't convince him I guess I'll haul out my walking tractor, a shallow trench will be better than nothing. Engine start-up prayers to the deity of your choice are welcome. Anybody within driving distance want to celebrate Arbor Day with me this weekend??? I'll put on chicken soup and homemade bread and we'll have a party+ACE- Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm +ACY- Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY Maps at http://www.agrove.com/location.html From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 17:32:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA03374 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18782 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:26:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA05855; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:22:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05744 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:21:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [144.92.244.222] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id QAA218714 (8.9.1/50); Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:21:13 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990416161703.006bebc8@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mrostrom@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:17:03 -0500 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Marcy Ostrom Subject: Coordinator Position(s) for MACSAC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 174 Hi folks, Please pass on the following Madison Area CSA Coalition (MACSAC) position description to anyone you know that might be interested. Thanks, Marcy Ostrom Madison Area CSA Coalition mrostrom@facstaff.wisc.edu > >---------------------------------------------------------- > >MACSAC and PARTNER SHARES PROGRAM COORDINATORS POSITIONS > >The Madison Area Community Supported Agriculture Coalition (MACSAC) seeks >qualified individuals to work with MACSAC and the Partner Shares Program. >Each listed position will be 50% time. Candidates are encouraged to apply >for one or both positions as their skills and interests dictate. > >POSITION #1: MACSAC COORDINATOR > >ABOUT THE MADISON AREA CSA COALITION > >The Madison Area Community Supported Agriculture Coalition (MACSAC) was >formed in 1992 to develop a strong local network of community supported >farms. Comprised of farmers, community activists, and representatives of >organizations that support sustainable agriculture, the Coalition's work >focuses on the following four areas: > > Farmer collaboration, networking, and community building > Consumer education and outreach > Farmer support and education > Food-related social justice. > >MACSAC is currently hiring a permanent staff person to provide continuity >and administrative support to our largely volunteer organization, and to >work to further the goals and projects of the Coalition. > >LIST OF DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITITES > > Coordinate and recruit coalition volunteers > Maintain, develop, and distribute outreach materials > Plan and coordinate outreach events > Maintain and enhance relationships with media > Maintain and develop member communications > Plan and coordinate farmer education and events > Network with food system-related organizations > Manage program budget > Fundraising and grantwriting > >SKILLS AND BACKGROUND DESIRED > > Excellent interpersonal communication skills > Strong writing and public speaking skills > Ability to work independently, and as a team member > Ability to motivate and organize volunteers > Detail-oriented with strong organizational skills > Experience in working with print, broadcast and electronic media > Experience in non-profit fundraising and grantwriting > Familiarity and experience with sustainable agriculture and food >security issues > >POSITION #2: PARTNER SHARES PROGRAM COORDINATOR > >ABOUT THE PARTNER SHARES PROGRAM > >The Partner Shares Program (PSP) was established in 1997 as a project of >MACSAC, the Wisconsin Rural Development Center (WRDC), and the Hunger >Prevention Council of Dane County (HPC). Partner Shares links >lower-income households and supported-living households with a community >supported farm. Participating households receive a CSA share while paying >at a reduced rate. PSP work involves: > > Raising funds to provide scholarships to low-income households > Working with communities of faith to promote congregation supported >agriculture > Assisting participating households with negotiating CSA membership > Planning student and youth group farm-a-thons. > >LIST OF DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITITES > >The program coordinator is responsible for implementing the Partner Shares >Program in partnership with the steering committee. Duties include: > > Fund-raising and grant-writing for program administration and for >participant > scholarships > Identify individuals and organizations eligible for and desiring >participation in PSP > Link participating households with CSA farms > Provide support to participating households and CSA farms > Maintain, develop, and distribute outreach materials > Provide support and expand membership on the PSP steering committee > Manage program budget (with WRDC financial manager) > Network with interested communities of faith and religious >congregations > Plan and implement volunteer and fund-raising activities > Represent the program at events, conferences, and workshops > Network with other food system and food security organizations > Other activities as deemed appropriate > > SKILLS AND BACKGROUND DESIRED > > Excellent interpersonal communication skills > Strong writing and public speaking skills > Ability to work independently, and as a team member > Ability to motivate and organize volunteers > Detail-oriented with strong organizational skills > Experience in non-profit fundraising and grantwriting > Proven record in program management > Familiarity with sustainable agriculture and food security issues > Desire to expand the program to cover other aspects of >food-related social justice > >ADMINISTRATIVE DETAILS > >Annual salary will be the full-time equivalent of $24,000 to $27,000, >commensurate with experience. Paid holidays, sick and vacation time and a >cash health benefit are included. The staff person(s) will be housed at >the Wisconsin Rural Development Center. This is a one year position, with >the possibility of continued employment. > >APPLICATION PROCESS > >To apply, please send a resume and cover letter describing your skills, >interests and background to > >MACSAC >C/O Wisconsin Rural Development Center >4915 Monona Drive, Suite #304 >Monona, WI 53716 > >Applications must be postmarked by April 29, 1999 > > > Marcy Ostrom Program on Agricultural Technology Studies 1450 Linden Dr., Rm 146 UW-Madison Madison, WI 53706 608-265-3463 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 18:24:28 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA04175 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA01088 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10399; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:16:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10322 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:15:22 -0500 (CDT) From: JHatf18942@aol.com Received: from JHatf18942@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dYTKa16066; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:14:28 EDT Subject: Re: Trees! To: DGreen47@aol.com CC: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Reply-To: JHatf18942@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 175 Hey we got Fedco trees today as well. It surprised me too. The ground here (Michigan's U.P.) never did get around to freezing, nice blanket of snow right into spring. I would be interested to hear more about your SARE project. Happy tree planting. Jeff Hatfield From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 19:29:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA05074 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16403 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA14139; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:20:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from stinger.excite.com (stinger-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14025 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:19:55 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from batty.excite.com ([199.172.152.107]) by stinger.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990416231922.OKKP15757.stinger@batty.excite.com> for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:19:22 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Trees! Message-Id: <924304761.13919.34@excite.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:19:21 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 176 We (we being 3 of us) planted about 3000 over the last week at a couple of farms nearby us. This number is much much less impressive than it sounds as we had access to an old tobbacco planter and a small tractor. With this equipment and 3 to 4 people it is possible to plant around 2000 trees a day with ease. Last year we had 3.5 acres put into mixed hardwoods. Didn't get no grant for all this though-will have to look into such things as we have more acres to go over the next few years. Tomorrow it is supposed to rain but we are having a CSA worker orientation meeting anyhow-looks like everyone plans to attend. I happened to run into the whole membership (but 1) at the local co-op when we went to pick up a bulk order. We had bees arrive today and we hope to install them tomorrow during the orientation. Today the heavy rain and 40mph winds prevented installation. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 21:52:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06688 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14527 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA08911; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:44:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08846 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:44:14 -0500 (CDT) From: XOAXON@aol.com Received: from XOAXON@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dQALa09991; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <94b78552.2449410f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:42:39 EDT Subject: Re: Trees! To: DGreen47@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: XOAXON@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 177 Dori I hope your day went well and safely. Mine went pretty well. Today, things are ending up where I hoped they would be when I invited you all to visit my site yesterday. Well, we all have plans I guess. Anyway, the site address is: http://www.angelfire.com/sd/ThreeCords/index.html or http://www.hotyellow98.com/threecords/index.html I hope you find it of interest. Thanks God Bless You and Yours. David J. Durick also at: agrispec@aol.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 23:52:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07903 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08620 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA14886; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:44:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp6.jps.net (jps.downlink.skycache.com [209.63.224.103]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14816 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:43:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jps.net (208-25-61-15.stk.jps.net [208.25.61.15]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA04021 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 04:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3717977B.2009D6B4@jps.net> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:03:08 +0000 From: Richard Roth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Cucumber Beetles on Summer Squash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 178 I always have trouble with cucumber beetles on newly trasplanted or early summer squashes. I don't know for sure, but I may have found a solution. I scattered a thin line of wild bird food (millet, milo and sunflower seeds) down the row. The birds found it. I don't know if they are eating the beetles or scarring them away, but two days ago I had lots, and today I could only find a couple. Thought I'd pass it on. This was inspired by a friend of mine, an organic peach grower, who delt with the bird pecks in rip peaches by setting out lots of trays of bird food. He says the damage has decreased every year. They are full of seeds and nuts and leave the peaches alone. -- Richard Roth rfarm 1318 Bruce Street Chico, CA 95928 Ph:(530) 895-1672 . From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 17 00:57:45 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08482 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18826 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA18368; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:49:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18300 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:49:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA12342; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:49:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:49:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Richard Roth cc: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: Cucumber Beetles on Summer Squash In-Reply-To: <3717977B.2009D6B4@jps.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 179 It is so nice to hear of cucumbers when it is still so cold up north...I always thought birds either ate seed or insects (in theory) but I also think they are curious beings and if a beetle was nearby they would at least try it, even if they didn't eat it! Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Richard Roth wrote: > I always have trouble with cucumber beetles on newly trasplanted or > early summer squashes. I don't know for sure, but I may have found a > solution. > > I scattered a thin line of wild bird food (millet, milo and sunflower > seeds) down the row. The birds found it. I don't know if they are eating > the beetles or scarring them away, but two days ago I had lots, and > today I could only find a couple. > > Thought I'd pass it on. > > This was inspired by a friend of mine, an organic peach grower, who delt > with the bird pecks in rip peaches by setting out lots of trays of bird > food. He says the damage has decreased every year. They are full of > seeds and nuts and leave the peaches alone. > > -- > Richard Roth > rfarm > 1318 Bruce Street > Chico, CA 95928 > Ph:(530) 895-1672 > . > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 17 01:59:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA09021 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA00148 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA21738; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:51:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21670 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:50:51 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id aTRLa03719; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:49:23 EDT Subject: Re: Growing corn in the PNW: To: holderj@cc.wwu.edu, CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: SCook21809@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 180 Hi Jennifer, Its aways a challenge to grow corn in the Pacific Northwest where it takes four and a half months to collect the BTUs necessary to fill a cob. We buy short season sweet seeds. But don't expect them to finish in the 90 days promised in the catalog. We start our corn in 128 flats the first week of May under lights indoors. By the 1st of June they are about five inches tall when we transplant them out onto raised beds at 12 inch centers with drip irrigation. Mulch the beds with 1.5 inches of finished dark compost. Foliar feed the corn once a week. (Have used Humax and Maxicrop in the past but find that a good aerobic compost tea helps much more.) By the middle of July I underplant the corn beds with common vetch. The vetch provides nitrogen to the mycorhizal fungi that feed the corn roots. In addition, it holds up the corn when the September winds blow in and prevents lodging just as its ripening. Bean plants haven't proven very effective as an understory for me. Also, you have to consider that since the corn is stealing nitrogen from the legume via the mycorhizal fungi the beans can't produce as well as they could in their own bed. Personally, I hate growing corn. It takes up too much space and nutrient for very little food. However, the shocks make great compost. Since most of my CSA subscribers expect it with their tomatoes, I plant just enough to get by every year and hope for some warm weeks in August. I don't encourage anyone west of the Cascades to grow corn but these techniques will help you manage a decent crop. I wish Americans could get used to eating foods that grow well in their region. But good wishes don't sell CSA subscriptions. Good luck...... Art Biggert << I read an old e-mail on the praire net listserv where you discussed your experiences with growing corn in the PNW. I have a plot at school in the PNW and having been trying to find area specific info in hopes to do a three sisters project there. >> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 17 02:23:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA09166 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA04494 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA22591; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:15:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22507 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:14:22 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dRPFa00664 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <192759d7.24498043@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:12:19 EDT Subject: More Beetle Control To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 181 Same kind of idea, works for squash and potatoes for me -- In every flock of chickens, there's one hen who scouts out the good hunting and calls the others for the feast. I scout my fields and when I spot a bug problem, I catch "Hecate" and toss her into the problem area. Within a few minutes I've got twenty chickens lowering my feed bill and taking care of the bugs. It's a little bit noisy and doesn't work for tomatoes or strawberries, where those durned birds have to take one peck out of each fruit, but it's organic! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 17 07:50:11 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA10756 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA27093 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28765; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:42:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28706 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:41:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mycp.tdsnet.com (buwiusr0-a32.bbw.tds.net [208.137.65.224]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA12693 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:41:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002501be88c6$db948b40$e04189d0@mycp.tdsnet.com> Reply-To: "Marv Hughes" <@mail.tds.net> From: "Marv Hughes" To: Subject: Farm Opportunity Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:38:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE889C.F0730CA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 182 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE889C.F0730CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm looking for a tennant to live and work a small farm in south central = Wisconson (approx 20 miles south, south west of the Wisconson Dells). = The farm will be worked under organic and biodynamic principles, will be = used to grow medicinal herbs and other crops the tennant wishes to raise = (percentage of profits to be shared with tennant). The rent will be free = in turn for the farm work and house fix up/repairs. The house is not in = the best of shape but if you enjoy farming , seclusion and can't afford = you own farm this could be a win/win for both owner and tennant. For = more information please send me an email with your background and = farming experience. =20 Marv Hughes Badger Botanical Farms =20 hughesm@BBW.TDS.NET =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE889C.F0730CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm looking for a tennant to live = and work a=20 small farm in south central Wisconson (approx 20 miles south, south west = of the=20 Wisconson Dells). The farm will be worked under organic and biodynamic=20 principles, will be used to grow medicinal herbs and other crops the = tennant=20 wishes to raise (percentage of profits to be shared with tennant). The = rent will=20 be free in turn for the farm work and house fix up/repairs.  The = house is=20 not in the best of shape but if you enjoy farming , seclusion and can't = afford=20 you own farm this could be a win/win for both owner and tennant.  = For more=20 information please send me an email with your background and farming=20 experience.
 
Marv Hughes
Badger Botanical=20 Farms   
hughesm@BBW.TDS.NET
 
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE889C.F0730CA0-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 17 12:25:32 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12657 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:25:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15710 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA08582; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:16:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08101 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:02:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from junkpile - 208.253.74.111 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:01:30 -0700 From: "Mary Manson" To: "Richard Roth" , Subject: Re: Cucumber Beetles on Summer Squash Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:29:13 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <0c9e33001161149CPIMSSMTPU09@email.msn.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 183 >I scattered a thin line of wild bird food (millet, milo and sunflower >seeds) down the row. The birds found it. I don't know if they are eating >the beetles or scarring them away, but two days ago I had lots, and >today I could only find a couple. > >Thought I'd pass it on. > >This was inspired by a friend of mine, an organic peach grower, who delt >with the bird pecks in rip peaches by setting out lots of trays of bird >food. He says the damage has decreased every year. They are full of >seeds and nuts and leave the peaches alone. The intelligence of some humans indeed surpasses that of birds ..... ;-) ..... Now why didn't *I* think of that ??? From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 17 12:25:32 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12658 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:25:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15711 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA08657; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:17:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08214 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:04:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from junkpile - 208.253.74.111 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:04:15 -0700 From: "Mary Manson" To: "Mary Manson" , "Richard Roth" , Subject: Re: Cucumber Beetles on Summer Squash Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:32:06 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <056591504161149CPIMSSMTPU08@email.msn.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 184 >>I scattered a thin line of wild bird food (millet, milo and sunflower >>seeds) down the row. The birds found it. I don't know if they are eating >>the beetles or scarring them away, but two days ago I had lots, and >>today I could only find a couple. >> >>Thought I'd pass it on. >> >>This was inspired by a friend of mine, an organic peach grower, who delt >>with the bird pecks in rip peaches by setting out lots of trays of bird >>food. He says the damage has decreased every year. They are full of >>seeds and nuts and leave the peaches alone. > > >The intelligence of some humans indeed surpasses that of birds ..... ;-) >Now why didn't *I* think of that ??? Of course, now that I'm thinking ..... maybe some water, too, and then they'd just have peaches for dessert ? LOL now .... sorry about this - sometimes I do get giddy ..... From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 17 13:12:43 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13090 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26418 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA11277; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:04:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA11232 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:04:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904171704.MAA11232@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 350143990; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:04:30 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , "J. Eric & Karen A. Rains" Subject: Re: irrigation Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:02:10 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 185 We irrigate all of our raised beds (1/2 acre+) with drip irrigation. Since we are pumping water (and doing all other electrical stuff) with renewable energy (solar and wind) drip irrigation was our only real choice, but it is a happy one for the gardens as well. We got most of our supplies from a local irrigation supply house, but DRIPWORKS has a great inventory and the staff there is real helpful. About my only complaint with drip is for the first week or so after small transplants go into a bed. The "root zone" watering that drip does so well just doesn't make it for those little guys with their short roots and delicate nature. We often supplement with some hand watering for just a while as they get established. Or leave the drip going long enough to saturate the whole surface of the ground. Another caution about drip: it sometimes seems, during a really dry time, that the plants just can't be getting enough water. We usually run any given line for about 1 hour twice a week...and it really IS enough. Trust it, but keep an eye on the plants as well. We have two kinds of drip line: a T-tape, higher quality (can't remember specifics) with emitters that self-clean and work well year after year. And the stuff they had left over, found in a corner of the warehouse at the local irrigation place. It was really cheap, and not worth it. Tends to break, split, plug up, water less evenly than the better stuff...get the good line. "Buy the best and only cry once." The expense is not all that high, and the benefits are worth it. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: J. Eric & Karen A. Rains > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: irrigation > Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 10:58 AM > > Hi, we are setting up for irrigation this year and plan to put a field pump > in our pond and use rain tape/soaker hoses. We are starting small this year > (only using about 1/8 acre for the garden) And, like many farmers, our > funds are limited. > > I am just curious as to what others are doing. > > Karen Rains > > J. Eric & Karen A. Rains > Lacamas Lakes Ranch > jnkrains@myhome.net > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 17 15:59:35 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14662 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08263 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18640; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:51:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18578 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:50:39 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dHDa016068 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <78f1d7e8.244a3fb0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:49:04 EDT Subject: Re: Trees! To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 186 Just another 50 or so trees to heel in. Backhoe guy can't get here until next Tuesday, plow guy doesn't want to go on the field in the rain (can't blame him, we nearly lost his big John Deere out there last year, it would have been sucked down into the clay if it wasn't for the rocks). Gee, it looked drier than that on the top. Planted one contorted willow and thanked my deities that I only ordered four of them; the other three are packed in wet sawdust in the wheelbarrow that's now named "Lucille" for its tire -- "You picked a fine time to go flat, Lucille...." The tap root on those puppies is about three feet and they're almost seven feet tall. Called the rental place and reserved a one-person post auger for next weekend. In loose tree berms it should work like a champ. If I manage to recruit some help we can take turns, otherwise I should be able to take care of all the trees and post holes for the front and side yard all by myself. I've got 150 locust posts from that wonderful day a few years ago when we got an income tax refund and decided to spend it on the farm. A roll of woven fence and Ragnar will be Busted, no more jogger-chasing. And there will be two more rescues from the meat processor, a couple of colored lambs named "Lawn" and "Mower". They can keep him company in the side yard and everybody should be happy -- lambs, Rags, and neighbors. Lightning and sleet drove me back inside for a little while, but it's stopped now. Quick cup of coffee and it's back out to the planting wars. I'll sleep good tonight! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 17 16:51:30 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA15051 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA19736 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA20788; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:43:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20727 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:42:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D8FD678B; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:42:15 EDT To: DGreen47@aol.com Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:21:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Trees! Message-ID: <19990417.163727.-393791.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 187 Where did you get the contorted willows, Dori? Betsy Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 GOaT MILK? http://www.mazdak.com/goats/goatdex.htm Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 18 00:50:40 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA19145 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA00231 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA13582; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:42:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13536 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:42:18 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dMNJa26022 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:41:25 EDT Subject: Re: Cucumber Beetles on Summer Squash To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: SCook21809@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 188 Richard, I wrote an article on pest control using Layer hens in chicken tractors that will appear in the "Growing For Market" May issue. The domestic birds perform the same gratuitous chore with asparagus beetles, Colorado potato beetles, slugs, etc. Their byproducts are fertilizer, eggs and meat. The trick to sustainable agriculture is to observe who eats what and ensure that all are fed. Each life balances the other in both a community and a marriage. Best regards, Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm << The birds found it. I don't know if they are eating the beetles or scarring them away, but two days ago I had lots, and today I could only find a couple. >> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 18 09:34:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24184 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16529 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA26747; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:26:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26687 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:25:20 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dAEPa16066 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5755d64a.244b36fe@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:24:14 EDT Subject: Re: Cucumber Beetles on Summer Squash To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: SCook21809@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 189 Kevin, I describe in the article how I train my livestock to become aggressive hunters. I have also found that some breads are naturally more aggressive than others. They prefer the tater beetle eggs and larva over the adult. Again, prevention is so much easier and less expensive than treatment. Timing and attentive observation are key factors.... Art Biggert << When i tried to feed colorado tater beetles which I had picked off the plants to our chickens they ignored them. Are you SURE they're eating them?>> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 18 11:11:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25455 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02196 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29665; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:02:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29614 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:02:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from heimdallr by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA29904; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:02:13 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990418150601.00313040@pop.batnet.com> X-Sender: beauty@pop.batnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:06:01 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Loren Davidson Subject: Re: Cucumber Beetles on Summer Squash Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 190 At 09:24 AM 4/18/99 EDT, SCook21809@aol.com wrote: >Kevin, > I describe in the article how I train my livestock to become >aggressive hunters. I have also found that some breads are naturally more >aggressive than others. They prefer the tater beetle eggs and larva over the >adult. Hmmm...here I am, attempting to envision aggressive beetle egg bread....does it bite the knife that cuts it? Muscle its way out of the bread box? Push silverware off the table? And do the beetle eggs give it more protein? Loren, who may switch to free-range breads....:) -- Loren Davidson Permaculturist, poet, philosopher loren@wombat.net http://www.batnet.com/beauty/ "Follow your dreams. Make your wishes. Create the future. And above all, believe in yourself." -- J. Michael Straczynski From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 18 12:18:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26111 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15206 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA02069; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:09:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02005 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:09:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.8.149.218] [198.69.131.212] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A48B2C70100; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:12:59 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1287670698==_ma============" Message-Id: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:09:14 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Deer and dill Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 191 --============_-1287670698==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last time I brought up the subject of deer deterrence I received a number of good ideas but now I would like people's experience with plants that keep the deer away. Last year we had a really bad deer problem and spent an inordinate amount of time working on deterrence (nothing seemed to work for more than a couple weeks before the deer figured it out). This year looks like it will be even worse than last. I have seen larger than normal bands of the rodents running through the woods. Last year they were particular devastating to the potatoes and peppers. Potatoes -they ate the plants to the ground, peppers - they ate the tops with the buds. One of the strategies we used last year was to spread the 800 pepper plants we set out all over the garden, with the theory that they couldn't find them all. This theory proved wrong, or at least mostly wrong. It doesn't take but two or three deer to rape a pepper crop in one night, but they did miss two areas. One was the plants up by the barn with the dogs and livestock, the other was the plants put out next to the dill. The plants near the dogs is easily explainable, but the dill? Does this mean that deer don't like the smell of dill or does it mean that dill masks the smell of peppers and the deer can't find the peppers? Are there other crops like this? If the deer hate the smell of dill would growing dill around the edge of the garden work the same way pouring a rotten egg/water mixture work, only more permanently because the dill plants don't wash away with the rain? How many dill plants would it take to deter the deer if in fact it is a deterrence? Anyway, if anyone has experience with plants that repel deer I would like to hear from you. Oh, and if you are just speculating, please say so. Untested ideas are not worth nearly as much as experience and should be labeled as such. --============_-1287670698==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Last time I brought up the subject of deer deterrence I received a number of good ideas but now I would like people's experience with plants that keep the deer away. Last year we had a really bad deer problem and spent an inordinate amount of time working on deterrence (nothing seemed to work for more than a couple weeks before the deer figured it out). This year looks like it will be even worse than last. I have seen larger than normal bands of the rodents running through the woods. Last year they were particular devastating to the potatoes and peppers. Potatoes -they ate the plants to the ground, peppers - they ate the tops with the buds. One of the strategies we used last year was to spread the 800 pepper plants we set out all over the garden, with the theory that they couldn't find them all. This theory proved wrong, or at least mostly wrong. It doesn't take but two or three deer to rape a pepper crop in one night, but they did miss two areas. One was the plants up by the barn with the dogs and livestock, the other was the plants put out next to the dill. The plants near the dogs is easily explainable, but the dill? Does this mean that deer don't like the smell of dill or does it mean that dill masks the smell of peppers and the deer can't find the peppers? Are there other crops like this? If the deer hate the smell of dill would growing dill around the edge of the garden work the same way pouring a rotten egg/water mixture work, only more permanently because the dill plants don't wash away with the rain? How many dill plants would it take to deter the deer if in fact it is a deterrence? Anyway, if anyone has experience with plants that repel deer I would like to hear from you. Oh, and if you are just speculating, please say so. Untested ideas are not worth nearly as much as experience and should be labeled as such. --============_-1287670698==_ma============-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 18 14:33:51 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27955 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA17545 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA08425; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:18:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from peak.org (denisont@PEAK.ORG [198.68.22.17]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08298 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:16:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (denisont@localhost) by peak.org (8.8.5/8.6.7) with SMTP id LAA27711; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:16:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Denison X-Sender: denisont@kira To: Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org, "J. Eric & Karen A. Rains" Subject: Re: irrigation In-Reply-To: <199904171704.MAA11232@firefly.prairienet.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 192 We have been using drip tape since 1978, and agree that T-tape seems to work the best. In our climate (Corvallis, Oregon) 2hours/week/line would not be enough water for much of the season. We use 8mil 12" high flow T-tape, 1 line per bed. Our beds are on 5' centers and 300'long. 13 hours @ 8psi gives 1 acre inch of water. We can get 1or2 inches of evapotranspiration per week in the summer, depending on temp. and humidity. So we run our lines approx. 13 to 26 hrs per week. 8" emitter spacing, or lines closer than 5' appart would supply more galons per hour, so you would run your system less time per week. The tradeoff is you need more total flow to run your system. 8" spacing is great if your water source can handle it. Northwest Irrigation hare in Albany OR (541)928-0114 can supply tape, fittings, and design assistance. Irrigation-Mart in Ruston, LA (800) 729-7246 is another good source we have used, though I don't know how they are with smaller farms. Good luck with your project. Tom On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > We irrigate all of our raised beds (1/2 acre+) with drip irrigation. Since > we are pumping water (and doing all other electrical stuff) with renewable > energy (solar and wind) drip irrigation was our only real choice, but it is > a happy one for the gardens as well. We got most of our supplies from a > local irrigation supply house, but DRIPWORKS has a great inventory and the > staff there is real helpful. About my only complaint with drip is for the > first week or so after small transplants go into a bed. The "root zone" > watering that drip does so well just doesn't make it for those little guys > with their short roots and delicate nature. We often supplement with some > hand watering for just a while as they get established. Or leave the drip > going long enough to saturate the whole surface of the ground. > > Another caution about drip: it sometimes seems, during a really dry time, > that the plants just can't be getting enough water. We usually run any > given line for about 1 hour twice a week...and it really IS enough. Trust > it, but keep an eye on the plants as well. > > We have two kinds of drip line: a T-tape, higher quality (can't remember > specifics) with emitters that self-clean and work well year after year. And > the stuff they had left over, found in a corner of the warehouse at the > local irrigation place. It was really cheap, and not worth it. Tends to > break, split, plug up, water less evenly than the better stuff...get the > good line. "Buy the best and only cry once." > > The expense is not all that high, and the benefits are worth it. > Jo and Jim > "The Community Farm" newsletter > A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture > http://www.gks.com/TCF/ > > ---------- > > From: J. Eric & Karen A. Rains > > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > > Subject: irrigation > > Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 10:58 AM > > > > Hi, we are setting up for irrigation this year and plan to put a field > pump > > in our pond and use rain tape/soaker hoses. We are starting small this > year > > (only using about 1/8 acre for the garden) And, like many farmers, our > > funds are limited. > > > > I am just curious as to what others are doing. > > > > Karen Rains > > > > J. Eric & Karen A. Rains > > Lacamas Lakes Ranch > > jnkrains@myhome.net > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 19 10:30:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11191 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14075 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29522; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:20:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29429 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:19:28 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dJNUa16068 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <60a3669e.244c952b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:18:19 EDT Subject: Re: Deer and dill To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: SCook21809@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 193 Hey Leigh, The question I want answered is who got to name that animal? I think I would use a four letter word too. But not Deer! Those pests can smell their favorite blossoms from five miles away. I call roses and evening primrose deer bait. They will come to a garden of these delights even during hunting season. We have found that a eucalyptus hedge masks the smell of the pea and pepper blossoms in our fields. They aren't supposed to grow here but we can keep them going for about 8 years before a hard freeze kills all of them. We replant some every year. Some years we replant all of them. They do something to the soil though that makes it impossible to grow anything else there. So pick your site carefully and keep them off your growing areas. We keep about 24 trees going around our two acre site and it helps a lot. We also have an electric fence baited with peanut butter to zap the few that happen to pass by the neighborhood. A 5,000 volt shock in the mouth with the appetizer makes them reconsider the splendor of the main course. This year I'm adding the protection of a thick and tall hedgerow around the perimeter. There will be the blooms for them on the outside and the electric fence on the inside. I doubt that there is one action or trick that will always work. We are talking biology here. And biology always adapts. Deer are neophobic. They shy away from new smells and terrain changes. But once they notice the change doesn't have an uncomfortable effect on their being, they go about their business as usual. I believe there are things we can do to tilt the food web in our favor. But we have to use a multifaceted approach. Good luck, Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 19 12:29:57 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13405 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15554 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09233; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:19:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from entoo.connect.com.au (entoo.connect.com.au [192.189.54.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09164 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:19:17 -0500 (CDT) From: newsdesk@australianinvestor.com.au Received: from dialup.optusnet.com.au (kenny53.zip.com.au [61.8.18.181]) by entoo.connect.com.au with SMTP id CAA14287 (8.8.8/IDA-1.7 for ); Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:19:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:19:03 +1000 (EST) To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Your April Issue is now online Organization: The Australian Investor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_9wPPRW7EKE" Message-Id: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 194 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=_9wPPRW7EKE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.australianinvestor.com.au Dear Reader The Australian Investor cordially invites you to peruse our online finance and investment magazine for the asia-pacific region. 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DYYwdigTPeQxpdtL5DQ2TuZXzQQmjeXCd9IXWOLLqWUWMlZZU9HW71pksVHXVpAG5Gca7eey +FNNbiK63iROEiQyPmLNmTW6NuSASurLd6KQ4jzDhDJDM/skb6GkM8sIXXEkAwgEZfADQEAH QUAHKBAEQTAEZ7AGaIAGDHAGddBe2CDTDoIAKmBSl4YRZ0hSXGAQG3AEXHsEwQLRD83QEZ0C W8gA1H7W0D1tBEswDGCcBHTUEisCUczAhWowtvxMDdmgeJHMIQoQECmgAlsgDBGNA8TdK7pi pg7tBG1aBSrgxV2sAGD4EfOFMRowLmMq27ItDXkpLy0xaSxyE5CZ1Zq5hkUYI8fADigABGTw NJTBS0YW2Nc0TX1ty4gR4cksQra6WAZIT3Rd168pQ7fnMsCcQhxu4ZcVsW9yWYlYTOKc2dsk gDEGCT5CJbLsgHnFMivmJTNeJ2ttY1CjMnvB4ze+fWRN4kkeQ5IRCAA7 --=_9wPPRW7EKE-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 19 14:05:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA15481 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:05:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08222 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA24773; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:55:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ramses.lu.se (ramses.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24688 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:55:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (luetnfs.etn.lu.se [130.235.150.159]) by ramses.lu.se (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA23261 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:56:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from LUETNFS/SpoolDir by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.21); 19 Apr 99 20:07:49 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUETNFS (Mercury 1.30); 19 Apr 99 20:07:24 +0100 Received: from humecol.lu.se by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.30) with ESMTP; 19 Apr 99 20:07:17 +0100 Message-ID: <371B68B7.C2AF84E9@humecol.lu.se> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:32:40 +0200 From: Folke =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Community supported, Agriculture" Subject: Deer and dill Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id MAA24690 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 195 In Africa, they use a feature called a 'surprise fence' against elephants, rhinoceros and the like. Perhaps it also works against deers. It consists of a ditch, one side slooping towards the land that should be fenced. Then it ends up with a steep side. The animals moving in will find themselves facing a wall, and they goes to another place instead of trying to climb the wall. Of course it is a heavy work to make the fence, but they don't wither very fast. The height if the steep side (or the depth of the ditch) is adapted to the type of animal that should be fenced out. For a deer Ishould think 7-9 ft is needed. For elephants deeper ditches are needed. FG -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Folke Gnther +46 (0)46/ 14 14 29 el. +46 (0)46/222 36 98. Kollegievgen 19, 224 73 Lund, Sweden URL: http://www.humecol.lu.se/~folke_g/folkegsv.htm --- This message is written with 100% recycled electrons. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 20 21:56:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19100 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06186 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA02878; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:44:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02723 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:42:35 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (8039) by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id sCDUa03465; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:41:24 EDT Subject: Re: Growing corn in the PNW: To: Pat_Elazar@cwb.ca, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: SCook21809@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 196 Hi Pat, VAM Fungi are invited into the roots of corn plants. The corn exchanges surgars for nutrients and minerals from the fungi. A conversation between the plants might sound like, "Come into my root. I have chocolate cake for you. Are you hungry little fungi?" The fungi moves into the root and builds a nest (arbucle) in the root. Then the corn plant says,"Gee, if you want more chocolate cake you will have to find some groceries for me. I need Boron and a little nitrogen. When you bring that to me I'll give you more cake." Now the fungi sends out its hypha, a long filament with enzymes that can obtain and transport the desired nutrient to the corn plant. And they continue exchanging nutrients for a very happy and symbiotic relationship. If for some reason the fungi can not find the nutrient the corn plant wants, the corn plant stops the exudate flow that feeds the fungi. This relationship makes the nitrogen in the nodules on the vetch available to the corn via the VAM Fungi. Its important that the vetch does not go to seed until the corn has matured. Because all of that nitrogen will then go into the new vetch seed and leave the corn and fungi hungry. Isn't this amazing? In order to encourage VAM fungal growth, I mulch with compost on top of the soil being careful not to turn it into the soil. This inhibits weeds as well as decreasing watering needs and supports fungal growth. This technique is multiply symbiotic. Our rotation following corn and vetch is chard and kale (brassica). Brassicas create strong bacterially mediated soils. They inhibit fungal growth. So I use compost teas to encourage soil microbes that will help the chard and kale. No pest can survive in such dynamic conditions. My tilth, water holding capacity and drainage improve every year. Try it, you'll like it. Let us know how your crop turns out this year. Best regards, Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm << Here in suburban Winnipeg (465mi nw of Minneapolis), we've only had to resort to starting sweet corn in flats in 1992 & "93". I was intrigued by your intercroping corn with common vetch for N fixing symbiosis: 1) Is the N available to the corn during the growing season, or only after the vetch is incorporated? 2) What is your rotation after corn/vetch? (I normally follow corn with tomatoes, but I think I would want to follow vetch incorporation with garlic or Brassica....) >> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 21 09:01:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26088 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA24524 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA29490; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:51:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29361 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:50:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp102.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.102]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA28178 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990421084827.007dcbb0@vaxxine.com> X-Sender: laura_s@vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:48:27 -0400 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" From: Laura Sabourin Subject: helper/apprentice needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 197 I'm looking for someone to start pretty well now :-) would appreciate it if list members could forward this to anyone who may be interested: Feast of Fields - Biodynamically certified Organic Farm We are looking for a helper/apprentice for the 1999 growing season. Our 50 acre farm is located in the beautiful Niagara region of Ontario. We have a vineyard, a 50 family CSA garden, fruit trees, and some animals. During the season we also host wwoofers who provide invalueable additional farm support. The person we are looking for will have a keen interest in organic growing, the ability to work with farm equipment, a valid drivers license and a positive happy outlook. Our season starts now and we will require help until late September/mid October. We will provide on farm accomodation, healthy meals and renumeration based on CSA profits. To learn more about our farm please visit: http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.htm and follow the links to pages about our csa, vineyard and critters. Interested applicants please email farm@ragdolls.net or call 905-562-0151 Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net/ragenesq.htm R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 21 18:53:57 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10286 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13579 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15983; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:42:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15863 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:41:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22342; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:41:01 -0600 Received: from localhost (egbelsey@localhost) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA750496; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:41:00 -0600 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:41:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Eric Belsey To: SCook21809@aol.com cc: Pat_Elazar@cwb.ca, csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Growing corn in the PNW: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 198 I'm very intrigued by encouraging mycorrhizae in annual crops, particularly our popular "heavy" feeders- corn, squash, tomatoes. Art- I've seen mycorrhizae advertised for sale in Peaceful Valley Farm Supply- have you used this inoculant? have any other growers? Does it help, or is home growing them as Art describes just as effective or more effective? (keeping inputs on-farm as much as possible?) One of my potential business plans is providing super healthy Biodynamic transplants for many of these crops which are popular and routinely transplanted in Colorado- tomatoes, squash, cucumbers, perhaps lettuces... Could these transplants be inoculated with mycorrhizae and give backyard-scale gardeners surprising improvements in yield, disease resistance, etc. over the garden center (garden variety) transplants? thanks--- Eric Belsey From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 22 01:56:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22006 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA27500 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA14039; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:49:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13979 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:48:21 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (14419) by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dADBa03465 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:46:57 EDT Subject: Re:Another shameless plug: To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: SCook21809@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 199 Gee Eric, you've pegged me. Keeping inputs on farm or from the community where the farm resides is my obsession. No, I have never purchased mycorrhizae inoculant. If I had sick or dead soils, I surely would consider it though. I have learned how to tilt composting materials to encourage aerobic bacterially mediated soil for annuals or fungally mediated soil for perennials. Since corn is in the grass family, I consider it a perenial like tomato plants. For specific details on composting methods and soil inoculants, I refer you once again to Growing For Market sometime this summer. An important consideration when purchasing inoculant is its survivability in your micro-climate. Will inoculant from the hot and dry plains of Kansas survive and perform in the rainy and cool Pacific NorthWest? You can be assured that if I grow an inoculant in my compost pile it will perform well. << Art- I've seen mycorrhizae advertised for sale in Peaceful Valley Farm Supply- have you used this inoculant? have any other growers? Does it help, or is home growing them as Art describes just as effective or more effective? (keeping inputs on-farm as much as possible?) For three years in a row I have arrested phytophera (blight) on both tomato and potato. Downy mildew on squash is no longer a problem for my cool damp growing season. All of my experience is based on imperical and anecdotal "experiments". But, Elaine Ingham,PhD from Oregon State University (soilfoodweb.com) is doing real science research along these lines. Because she must maintain an objective outlook until she completes multiple trials with multiple controls before her results can be published, she isn't saying much. But check out her website anyway. Read what she has already published and you may figure out how to treat those transplants to improve the yields and disease resistance over garden center transplants. <> My favorite organic chemistry professor taught from the perspective of "I've got a secret. I hope you are clever enough to discover it." I find that perspective works for complex subjects. There is no silver bullet. But, when you understand the dynamic synergies, you'll always have a good answer. Good luck, Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 23 15:30:35 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10251 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25104 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17876; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:20:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.59.113]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17710 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:17:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 708661617 (DYTNB203-20.splitrock.net [209.252.100.66]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA126194 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:17:42 -0400 Message-Id: <199904231917.PAA126194@pimout2-int.prodigy.net> Reply-To: From: "Vincent J McKelvey" To: "CSA List" Subject: csa in yellow springs ohio Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:15:39 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 200 hi, friends. i thought i saw a post within the last couple of months from somebody who was starting a csa in yellow springs ohio. if you're out there, please send me info about your csa. i have friends in yellow springs who want to join our csa, but you are a heckuva lot closer and we ought to be helping each other! thanks. noreen From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 23 18:27:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13476 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11488 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA03162; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:18:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03093 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:17:31 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (14453) by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dNNQa08200 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:12:27 EDT Subject: Wish Me Luck! To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 201 Taking part as a vendor in an "Expo" at the Parent Resource Center tomorrow. It's been raining here for three days and it's going down to 20F tonight so visiting with people with two of the baby goats in the dog pen next to my table -- indoors -- seems like a better way to spend the day than slogging through the mud where all I'll accomplish is turning clay into cement. Sigh. I've been trying to get in to this event and an "in" with this group for ten years. This could be a huge step forward and I could come home with a hundred new members! I'll figure out what to do with them once I've got them. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com PS -- haven't heard for several days from the would-be 50% farm partner who was so gung-ho last week. Last word was that he wanted to move in next week. I guess my experiences these past few years have led me to expect nothing from people, then it's a wonderful surprise if they actually come through with action that meets their promises. Stranger things have happened! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 23 19:32:34 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA14292 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA26981 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA07189; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:24:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07126 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:23:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA03746; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:22:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2-220.ix.netcom.com(209.110.255.220) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003725; Fri Apr 23 18:22:44 1999 Message-ID: <02ae01be8de0$06016ce0$33f96ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Wish Me Luck! Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:21:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 202 Mucho good luck! Please let us know how it goes. We are going to be in an Expo as well. How are you planning to set up your table, your display? The goats are great. Don't think we'll have any cute animal to take with us. Although a Highland calf would get attention. We are "investing" are first amount above 20 bucks in an advertisment to be printed next Friday in a local free newspaper (its free sent to all households in about 4 towns so its circulation is good), the add wasn't free of course :). So now we feel like is "anyone going to call, oh know what if hundreds call" how many do we accept? Think I'll plant some more seeds in my living room tomorrow, it looks more like a greenhouse than a living room. Good Good luck, Beth >Taking part as a vendor in an "Expo" at the Parent Resource Center tomorrow. >It's been raining here for three days and it's going down to 20F tonight so >visiting with people with two of the baby goats in the dog pen next to my >table -- indoors -- seems like a better way to spend the day than slogging >through the mud where all I'll accomplish is turning clay into cement. Sigh. > >I've been trying to get in to this event and an "in" with this group for ten >years. This could be a huge step forward and I could come home with a >hundred new members! > >I'll figure out what to do with them once I've got them. > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com > >PS -- haven't heard for several days from the would-be 50% farm partner who >was so gung-ho last week. Last word was that he wanted to move in next week. > I guess my experiences these past few years have led me to expect nothing >from people, then it's a wonderful surprise if they actually come through >with action that meets their promises. Stranger things have happened! > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 24 09:08:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA20134 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00276 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA06401; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:59:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root@mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06340 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:59:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 165.227.129.59 (sa-165-227-129-59.cruzio.com [165.227.129.59]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id FAA28468 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37215108.53CE@mariquita.com> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:05:12 +0000 From: Julia Wiley Reply-To: csa@mariquita.com Organization: Mariquita Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: new member bio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 203 We are Mariquita Farm: Andy Griffin and Julia Wiley. We have a 200 member CSA in central California; We currently grow on about 30 acres in and around Watsonville. Andy has been farming (organically) for 20 years; Julia is busy keeping the CSA customers in line and keeping them happy. The biggest daily challenge we currently face is how to farm and raise our two children: ages 2 and 4. -- --------------------------------------------------- Mariquita Farm Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables (831)761-3226 e-mail: csa@mariquita.com web site: http://www.mariquita.com P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 --------------------------------------------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 24 18:42:55 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24714 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07229 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA28900; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 17:33:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28840 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 17:31:55 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (14365) by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dEMLa08724 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <859c47d1.24539ff2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:30:10 EDT Subject: Early Childhood Expo Results To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 204 Met some nice people, sold three boxes of tea ($9), bought two bags of glitteries to add to candles ($4), took two orders for two pounds each of moldable soap ($8), several people said they would come up for a visit including two preschool groups at $20 per group of 20 rather than $3 per person (now THAT will be an Experience, I'll take the little guys out on the trails with the goat herd), and a couple of people said they would join at least as basic farm members ($25 per year). One or two might come through later as garden co-op (CSA) members ($200 per season). All in all, I'd say it was a useful day and well worth the $25 it cost me to participate even if I really should have been planting trees here today and it's almost all promises rather than cash in the pocket. The baby goats were a huge hit and they seemed to have a good time, too. When MAAA (me) is right there with them they don't seem to be at all stressed by travelling. As long as they get their noontime bottle and their lap-time afterward, all is well with the world. And everybody -- even little children -- were very good about my warning to pet the bablies but not to let the babies nibble on fingers because they're just learning what to do with their teeth and they don't understand yet that they aren't supposed to bite down. I just had to show the slice in the tip of one of my fingers to one lady who started to "pooh pooh" the idea that such darling little poopsies could cause damage. Try a really deep paper cut, the little snots are so cute and sweet sucking on the fingertip right up to the point where they maneuver it over to the slicing and grinding molars. Don't anybody try to tell me that wasn't a look of extreme self-satisfaction on Orange Sherbert's fuzzy little face as I shrieked in pain and he licked my blood off his chin. I love my goat babies, I love my goat babies. And they love me too, with mustard I think. And I do think I made some good connections today. But gosh I'm tired and it's time to do chores. The dog was bouncing happily at the car after I put the goats in the pasture and I had to let her know that I'm not doing this again for as long as I can put off doing it so she might as well not get excited, and yes next time I'll think to get permission for her to come along too. It _is_ fun, but being "on stage" for six full hours just drains me right out. Good practice for market days, though. Some day I'll have the cash to hire performers to do this part for me so I can just grub in the dirt (my real talent and first love). Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 25 21:17:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06206 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA01510 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16715; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:09:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16640 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:07:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jps.net (209-142-59-146.stk.jps.net [209.142.59.146]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA19457 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37221322.511716AC@jps.net> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:53:23 +0000 From: Richard Roth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: [Fwd: CSA near Milwaukee?] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9F9F5E06E1A5ED04F364F212" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 205 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9F9F5E06E1A5ED04F364F212 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted Jorin wrote: > Hello > We visited your site in our search for CSA s near Milwaukee. We didn't > see any and wonder if you can direct us elsewhere. Madison isn't too far > to go once a week, so thanks for that tip, but if you know of anything > more easterly please let us know. > Thanks, > Ted and Christa, tbj_clm@execpc.com (414) 272-9802 -- Richard Roth rfarm 1318 Bruce Street Chico, CA 95928 Ph:(530) 895-1672 . --------------9F9F5E06E1A5ED04F364F212 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp4.jps.net (smtp4.jps.net [209.63.224.57]) by mail2b.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10430 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (sendmail@mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by smtp4.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id FAA19350 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from execpc.com (kronos-2-59.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.85.187]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.1) id WAA11456 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:54:09 -0500 Message-ID: <37214112.84F47FBC@execpc.com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:57:06 -0500 From: Ted Jorin Reply-To: tbj_clm@execpc.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD EXECPC-45 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rfarm@jps.net Subject: CSA near Milwaukee? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hello We visited your site in our search for CSA s near Milwaukee. We didn't see any and wonder if you can direct us elsewhere. Madison isn't too far to go once a week, so thanks for that tip, but if you know of anything more easterly please let us know. Thanks, Ted and Christa, tbj_clm@execpc.com (414) 272-9802 --------------9F9F5E06E1A5ED04F364F212-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 07:35:50 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA23303 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA15611 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA25489; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:27:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25422 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:26:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA00375; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:25:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-191.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.191) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000357; Tue Apr 27 06:24:33 1999 Message-ID: <00c101be90a0$3dbe4780$bff96ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: new member bio Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:22:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 206 We are in our second year a CSA. There are three of us that do all the work. We are thinking of some part time help. How do you manage 200 members? How much hired help do you have? How do you get 200 baskets prepared? We are hoping for 30 members 200 is amazing. How many weeks is your growing season? Ours is 20+ with a quart of Maple Syrup in Feb. to keep everyone interested? Thank-you Beth >We are Mariquita Farm: Andy Griffin and Julia Wiley. We have a 200 >member CSA in central California; We currently grow on about 30 acres in >and around Watsonville. Andy has been farming (organically) for 20 >years; Julia is busy keeping the CSA customers in line and keeping them >happy. > The biggest daily challenge we currently face is how to farm and raise >our two children: ages 2 and 4. > >-- >--------------------------------------------------- > >Mariquita Farm >Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables >(831)761-3226 >e-mail: csa@mariquita.com >web site: http://www.mariquita.com >P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 > >--------------------------------------------------- > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 07:45:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA23873 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA17255 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA25918; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:37:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25620 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:30:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA00599 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:30:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-191.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.191) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000588; Tue Apr 27 06:30:22 1999 Message-ID: <00c401be90a1$0dd43ce0$bff96ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Christmas Trees Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:28:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 207 We were brainstorming on you might say value added products and ways to extended our CSA and general market passed the summer months. Christmas Trees is something we've thrown around (yeh its good exersise), someday we hope to grow them, we've grown them for our own use, never bought a tree in my 20 years of marriage. But for the next few years would buying a few trees wholesale be a good idea? We would make a thing of it , sleigh rides with the horses, hot chocolate etc. I said with the critters we've got we could almost set up a nativity scene. We've got the donkey, think sheep are arriving in a few weeks, just need a dairy cow which is coming when we find the right gal. Anyone have experience with Christmas trees, know where to buy them wholesale? Thank you Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 11:17:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02417 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19190 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08577; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:07:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ca2315.caescondid.fsc.usda.gov (ca2315.caescondid.fsc.usda.gov [199.156.52.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07801 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:59:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by ca2315.caescondid.fsc.usda.gov with SMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id OAA00982; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:57:06 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:57:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Brown X-Sender: brown@ca2315 Reply-To: Matthew Brown To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Internships in CA Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 208 Hi Folks: A nearby CSA asked me to pass on the following announcement. Feel free to forward it to other interested groups or individuals. Matt Escondido, CA ********************************* "Organic Planet, a small biointensive farm in northern San Diego CO, has openings for 3 interns. Room, board and weekly stipend will be provided. Internship will include all aspects of farm operation: fruit, nut, herb, flower and vegetable production; CSA-style marketing with local delivery; and active participation in farm development. Organic Planet is a 7 acre farm located near Fallbrook, CA, 15 miles from the coast and 40 miles north of San Diego." Inquiries should be directed to: Michael and Carollyn Organic Planet Farm 3519 Luneta Lane Fallbrook, Ca 92028 (760) 731 - 1238 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 11:56:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04187 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02234 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12022; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:46:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11966 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:46:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool024-max6.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.2.174]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA15242 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990427075150.00966100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:51:50 -0700 To: From: Fred Chambers Subject: Re: Christmas Trees In-Reply-To: <00c401be90a1$0dd43ce0$bff96ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 209 Hey treepeople, Here's just a crack-pot idea: Back when I was a kid, shopping for the annual family tree, us kids were intrigued by the idea of a live tree. Mom already had her garden and yard planted or planned, and another pinetree wasn't in her plans. We needed a live tree that we could rent! One of my CSA ideas is dropping a tree off at each subscriber's home around the holidays. Roll it into the house for 'em, and return to reclaim it. You could probably charge the local going rate for the service. I think dead trees in Southern California cost about $20. People would be happy to pay the same amount for a live tree that they don't have to lug around, or discard. Just an idea that I'm dying to try... Fred FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org Our Strawbale Green-House http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/page9/page7.html From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 12:00:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA04262 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:00:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA03100 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12362; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:51:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12198 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:49:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.198] [209.8.149.163] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AD8B7270124; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:53:47 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:49:25 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: customers Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 210 If there are any CSA's serving the DC area that aren't full up, contact me. I've now expanded as much as I possibly can and have a waiting list. Bull Run Mountain Organic Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 12:50:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05476 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17130 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15856; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:36:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15776 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:36:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA13842 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:35:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-149.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.149) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013730; Tue Apr 27 11:35:08 1999 Message-ID: <00d701be90cb$a228db60$bff96ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "CSA list" Subject: Re: customers Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:33:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 211 You lucky dog! A waiting list I can only dream. Although our advertisment come out Friday, we'll see :). Beth -----Original Message----- From: Leigh Hauter To: CSA list Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 11:51 AM Subject: customers >If there are any CSA's serving the DC area that aren't full up, contact me. >I've now expanded as much as I possibly can and have a waiting list. >Bull Run Mountain Organic Farm > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 14:36:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08265 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22435 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA25078; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:27:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA25005 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:26:38 -0500 (CDT) From: sbonney@iquest.net Received: (qmail 1638 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1999 18:18:20 -0000 Received: from laf-0001-19.iquest.net (HELO default) (204.95.254.211) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 1999 18:18:20 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990427132744.0096fa00@iquest.net> X-Sender: sbonney@iquest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:27:44 -0500 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: CSA Guide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 212 A guide to CSA in Indiana, Michigan and Ohio, entitled The Many Faces of Community Supported Agriculture, has recently been published. The collaborative effort of Sustainable Earth, Michigan Organic Food and Farm Alliance and Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association (all not-for-profit organizations) contains profiles of 35 csa farms in the three states and a selected bibliography of csa. Although written to educate agriculture professionals about csa, the profiles contain a plethora of ideas that csa farms have implemented (recruitment, organization, member involvement, distribution, etc.) that csa farmers everywhere will find very useful. Unfortunately, we must charge $10 (includes postage) for this 107 page guide, which can be ordered from the address below. Steve Bonney, President Sustainable Earth a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through sustainable agriculture 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 16:18:19 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11041 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25948 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA03819; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:08:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.59.113]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03709 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:07:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 708661617 (DYTNB103-13.splitrock.net [209.156.66.59]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA79362; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:07:47 -0400 Message-Id: <199904272007.QAA79362@pimout2-int.prodigy.net> Reply-To: From: "Vincent J McKelvey" To: , "Fred Chambers" Subject: Re: Christmas Trees Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:55:58 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 213 in our neighborhood (which includes numerous cut your own tree farms), dead trees START at $20 and $40-50 isn't uncommon. in certain pricey-er neighborhoods, you could probably get the latter price for a rented tree, just for the convenience of somebody else lugging it in and for the spiritual sense that the buyer (er, renter) has done something for the environment by doing absolutely nothing at all! noreen spring run farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 16:47:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11928 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA06303 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA06034; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:36:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA05959 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:36:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904272036.PAA05959@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 283227870; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:36:23 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "CSA List" Subject: CSA in Austin Texas? Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:29:36 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 214 Does anyone know of a CSA in the Austin, TX area? Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 18:47:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15004 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13427 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA14875; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:38:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hissy.excite.com (hissy-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.229]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14812 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:38:08 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from doby.excite.com ([199.172.152.182]) by hissy.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990427223735.ORJ10460.hissy@doby.excite.com> for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:37:35 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Need an Intern? Message-Id: <925252654.28991.458@excite.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:37:34 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.150 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 215 Hi there, I found this posting on a BB I post to a lot and since I see lots of calls for interns on this list I thought this may help someone out. The author of the post consented gladly to have this posted BTW. I am a undergraduate at Principia College in Elsah, IL I have studied organic farming and permaculture extensivly, and hope to farm after i get out of school. I am seeking a B.S. degree in environmental science and a minor in outdoor education, and I am looking for someone to give me more hands on experiance in the art of organic farming and sustainable living. I just got back from spending 10 weeks in Nepal studying indiginous agriculture and its effects on the environment. Please respond if you know of any places that i could find good hands on experiance, hopefully with a little pay to or my wife won't be to happy. thanks seth contact thru email at- blugras18@hotmail.com http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 18:55:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15096 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15847 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15510; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:46:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jake.excite.com (jake-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.221]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15436 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:46:04 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from pouch.excite.com ([199.172.152.242]) by jake.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990427224531.CLLR28756.jake@pouch.excite.com> for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:45:31 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: CSA Guide Message-Id: <925253127.12667.595@excite.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:45:27 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.150 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 216 This is a good guide. Steve, you and Holly should be congratulated for putting out a nice publication-congrats due and dudess. It don't hurt that our farm is one of the CSA's profiled but even if it weren't I still would get the book. We need more pubs like this to network all CSA's in the US or better yet by region. My Mom sent me a nice artlcle about Michigan CSA's from the Detroit free Press,nice listing of all the CSA in MI (all 8 of 'em) with a map that locates them in the State. I see the Lake Huron/Saginaw Bay area needs a CSA. http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 27 20:50:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA16676 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA27014 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA23084; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:41:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE2.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22983 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:40:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [132.236.102.102] (L0088.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.102.102]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18514 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:40:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: jcb13@postoffice4.mail.cornell.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Jennifer Bokaer-Smith Subject: CSAs in DC? Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 217 One of our members is moving to Montgomery Co MD (northeast of DC), and wants to join a CSA in that area. If anyone knows of any, please let me know. Thanks, Jen From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 28 14:02:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02260 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14743 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14330; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:51:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13040 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:33:15 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:33:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904281733.MAA13040@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 2400 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1999 17:33:13 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as003-3.iquest.net (209.43.53.3) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 17:33:13 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: CSA in Austin Texas? Cc: "CSA List" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 218 Boggy Creek. www.boggycreekfarm.com You'll love them! At 04:29 PM 4/27/99 -0400, Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: >Does anyone know of a CSA in the Austin, TX area? > >Jo and Jim >"The Community Farm" newsletter >A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture >http://www.gks.com/TCF/ > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 2 12:01:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14040 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11081 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09109; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:54:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08941 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:48:46 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (4420) by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dCJGa02293 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <67804188.245dcd77@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:47:03 EDT Subject: What came first?: To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 219 From: SCook21809 To: CWAlmonds >Art, Why is it that there are still flies in my large chicken enclosure, are they eating the larva but not enough...outnumbered by the flies? I had a about 35 chickens in about a 25x30' (or more) space. Thanks for the advice! Cheryl> Mmmm Cheryl, you are asking the rhetorical question, "What came first the chicken or the fly?" One begets the other. The manure is the host and vector for fly breeding. I use a multifaceted approach to keep the fly population in check. First, I receive a package of "Fly Parasites" once a month from an insectary called Rincon-Vitova (800) 248-2847. I spread the parasites over manure collection areas. These tiny little wasps lay their eggs in the magot and destroy many of them. I also set out fly traps that are screened boxes with some smelly brewers yeast under them to catch many adults. When the box fills up I submerse it for ten minutes and feed the drowned flies back to the chickens. I also have a wide sticky trap that unrolls above the doorway of my barn. Its white color attracts flies at the end of the day looking for a resting place. Picking up the bedding and manure piles and composting them is also critically important for both soil fertility and fly control. Hope these tips help to reduce the black spots floating around your living room. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 2 12:30:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14261 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20104 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA10276; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:23:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09939 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:16:22 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (14366) by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dSTEa08654 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <335f2334.245dd40b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 12:15:07 EDT Subject: Visitors To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 220 Okay, how do others handle this -- I'm sure I'm not the only one with the problem. My work day on the farm starts at 4 AM. By 11:30 I'm ready to sit down and relax for an hour, replenish the bottomed-out blood sugar, wash off a few layers, all that pesky detail stuff. Never seems to fail that especially when I've spent a horrible, totally frustrating morning chasing escaped goats, fixing fence, and turning around to find out that the monsters have broken it down again before I even got the hammer put away -- there's a message on the machine from somebody who called three weeks ago and said they might come up some time. They're on their way and will be here within half an hour. No mention of when they called. I have tried putting "Visitors welcome with 24-hour advance appointment" in my brochures, explaining to civilians that we do not go out in the midday sun due to some special health conditions. The only thing that stopped the after-10-pm phone calls was unplugging the phone when I go to bed at 8:30. It seems that the total cluelessness of the importance of a serious midday break is just something that unconnected people who don't do hard physical labor will not get. It's convenient for them to "drop in" so that's what they're going to do. And it's convenient for them to "drop in" at lunchtime, we dassn't complain. When today's person arrives I'm going to ask her to walk around outside and enjoy herself for half an hour or so while I finish my needed break. This is the way I usually handle issues of personal space -- I climb up on stage if I'm up to it, take my break and don't let them intrude on it if that's what I need but do so in a friendly way and do join them within a reasonable time. It really is okay to state what we need, and we don't have to be on call 24 hours a day. As a one-woman CSA operator I've learned how to do this with some poise and kindness -- but firmness, too. The only folks who've ever had a problem with it turned out to be wannabe abusers anyway and weren't missed when they left. Any other wisdom out there about protecting privacy and balancing the desire to share one's farm with placing limits on intrusions? Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 2 19:43:49 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18579 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA11162 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA26998; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:35:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26705 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:30:26 -0500 (CDT) From: HMSTDFRMS@aol.com Received: from HMSTDFRMS@aol.com (299) by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dGKRa13028; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4a48c527.245e39a5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 19:28:37 EDT Subject: Re: Visitors To: DGreen47@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 221 Yup, the warm spring sun sure does bring out the visitors! Be thankful that they give you some advance notice. I was just commenting to the other farm workers that this has to be about the second or third nice weekend. The town folks use the first couple to clean up their manicured lawn and neat two car garage, and then head out to visit the farm. As much as we love having people enjoy our farm, it is sometimes a problem. We usually invite them to take a walk, or join us in the garden if they want to talk. The toughest folks we have are the older retired folks who don't much feel like walking or working, but would really like to chit chat and check out our plans for the season. We try to invite them for a lunch break, but they usually land at about 9 or 10am--peak work time! Any suggestions on that one? Linda Homestead Farms From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 2 22:39:02 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21396 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01227 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04505; Sun, 2 May 1999 21:30:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04269 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 21:25:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool044-max2.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.235.244]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA10988 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990502192343.0098db80@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:23:43 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Fred Chambers Subject: Org.Asparagus in NC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 222 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:40:57 -0700 Title: New customers, new tastes Published Wednesday, April 28, 1999, in the Charlotte Observer ------------------------------------------------------------ New customers, new tastes By KATHLEEN PURVIS Food Editor Daphine Hoffman has planted more than 30,000 asparagus plants on the land her family has farmed since the 1870s. Donnie Cline works through one of his asparagus fields with Banjo the farm dog. Cline uses ryegrass and hay to control weeds without chemicals. "There's a lot of honest people in the world," says Daphine Hoffman. She keeps asparagus for sale in the driveway at her farm outside Lincolnton. Donnie Cline puts freshly cut asparagus in wet peat moss to keep the ends moist. Stalking asparagus N.C. farmers find a new market in an old crop Look around most Piedmont farms and you know what to expect: Strawberries in spring, corn, tomatoes and green beans in the summer, greens and pumpkins in the fall. But take a good look at three farms -- New Beginning Organic Farm near Vale, Daphine & Sons near Lincolnton and Carrigan Farms outside Mooresville -- and you might see something that will surprise you this spring: Long purple and green fingers poking up from the dirt. Asparagus. Whole fields of it. In North Carolina? Well, why not? Asparagus grows wild in many areas in Western North Carolina. And people with large backyard gardens have planted it for years. So why not grow asparagus on a larger scale, as a cash crop? In the asparagus world, California and New Jersey are the major players. Three farms, even turning out a few thousand pounds a year each, are barely a blip on the radar. Since a processing plant in Sampson County shut down about 10 years ago, the farms that had been growing it on a large scale have gotten out of the market. The N.C. Department of Agriculture doesn't even keep statistics on asparagus, says marketing spokesman Ron Fish. But agriculture experts are excited by the possibilities of growing asparagus for direct sale to customers, says Kevin Starr, Lincoln County director for the N.C. Cooperative Extension Service. It's one more way small farms can widen their earning potential. "Diversification," says Starr, "is almost always a healthy thing." Farmers don't just toss out a few seeds and grow what they like. Trying a new crop means considerable investment and risk. For asparagus, take that risk and triple it: It takes three years before an asparagus field yields a full crop. At New Beginning Organic Farm in Lincoln County, Donnie Cline has been testing the waters since he planted his first asparagus roots six years ago. Selling organic produce at the Charlotte Regional Farmers Market and to restaurants and customers all around Hickory, he constantly asks people what they want, what they'll buy. "I have given asparagus away to get people to try it. You have to create your own market. I've sold stuff I haven't put in the ground. You have to ask people, what would you like?" But in creating demand for a new crop, Cline has been helped by the same changes that are taking place all over the Piedmont: Newcomers, transplants from all over the country, have brought their tastes with them. Local people don't know much about asparagus, he says. Many have never even tried it. But people who have moved here from other states are eager for it. "They're wondering why you can't find this, that and the other. The people from around here are starting to realize. They're realizing there's more out there than green beans and corn." Walking around his asparagus fields on an unseasonably cold, misty morning recently, Cline apologized for the state of the field. There's matted hay between the rows, wild violets nestled around the asparagus stalks, ryegrass growing everywhere. "I call it the weed patch," he jokes. "Organic farmers, that's the biggest problem -- weeds." As the only farmer around who is trying to grow asparagus organically, he battles asparagus beetles, which lay tiny black dots of eggs on the stalks. To keep back weeds, he grows ryegrass. To feed the plants, he uses potassium and slow-release rock phosphate, which takes years to penetrate the sandy loam soil. But part of the thrill for him is the challenge. "I just wanted to see if I could really grow it," he says. At $5 a bundle, his asparagus is a little more expensive. Most organic crops, he says, cost about a quarter more than conventionally grown foods. But customers are willing to pay for the chance to get really fresh, chemical-free food. And he isn't in it for the money, he says. "As long as I can get back my fertilizer money, all my expenses.. . . I enjoy growing. As long as I can get a living, I'm OK. You're not going to get rich doing this." Fond of fronds Right on the edge of the Lincoln/Gaston county lines, beside the South Fork River, Daphine Hoffman's asparagus is helping her keep a promise. Hoffmans have farmed these 40 acres since 1870. After marriage and divorce, Hoffman came back seven years ago and went into farming with her dad, George T. Hoffman. He died last year, at 93. "I promised him I would keep it going," she says. "I got to keep that tradition going." By supplying her with a cash crop early in the spring, before her okra, peanuts, melons and summer vegetables are ready for market, asparagus might be a way to do that. "When vegetables and produce are in season, your money is in season," she says. Anything a farmer can do to lengthen that growing season helps. Funny thing is, Hoffman hadn't even eaten asparagus until just before she came back to the farm. Her former mother-in-law used to make a wonderful Spanish omelet, filled with vegetables, including asparagus. "It would melt in your mouth," she says. So when she came back to Lincolnton, she got 20 roots from a Burpee catalog and planted them, just for herself. Then she tried to get rid of them. "I plowed over them, I planted over them and I couldn't kill them. So I decided I'd farm them." She added 130 roots the next year, and then 2,000 the next year. Last year, she took the plunge: She went to a farm in New Jersey to learn everything she could, then came home and planted 10,000 roots. This year, she bought 20,000 roots and rounded up a gang of family and friends, from four to 80, to help plant them. "Putting in 20,000 roots on your hands and knees . . . ." She shakes her head. Her father had his doubts, she says. "He didn't know how to farm it and I didn't either, but I was having fun. "The main thing is to get it in the ground. I'll master it later." Mastering an asparagus crop isn't like your average row crop. Asparagus is part of the lily family. Only the male plant produces stalks; the female just produces berries. The male root is a crown. It looks like a bundle of brown twine with a knot in the middle. The crown is covered with nodules. In the spring, each nodule sends up a spear. If you don't pick it, the spear grows into a frond, with skinny branches growing out of the tip and out of the purple shields that grow up the stalk. The frond grows more than 5 feet tall, storing up food for the next year, then dies back in the winter. The next year, another spear grows up from the same nodule, a little thicker this time. Each year, the spears get thicker. Each crown sends up anywhere from one to five spears. To keep the plant yielding, you only harvest for two weeks the first year, then for four weeks the second year. By the third year, the plant is established and you can harvest from late March until June. After that, you're rolling. Asparagus peaks in about 10 years, yielding 2,000 to 6,000 pounds an acre each season. But it can keep producing for as long as 20 years. When Hoffman first had the idea to put in an asparagus crop, she approached Kevin Starr at a dinner for farmers and asked him if he knew anything about growing asparagus. "He said, `you mean, for your garden?' " But it turned out Starr was also hoping a few farmers would try asparagus. "They just didn't expect a woman farmer," she says. "They're tickled pink." Like Donnie Cline, Daphine Hoffman sells to restaurants and markets in Hickory and Lincolnton. Both also sell to people who drive to the farm. In the driveway of Hoffman's farm on N.C. 155, she keeps several tubs filled with freshly cut asparagus and the sign "Honor System -- $2.50 a pound." "Last year, I had so many customers, I couldn't supply 'em. We'd have three and four in the driveway and more on the phone." On the other hand, she took 125 pounds to the Gastonia Farmers Market on a recent Saturday and came home with 80 pounds. Local people are still catching on to fresh asparagus. But it won't take much longer, she says. Next year, she plans to open her fields for the pick-your-own crowd. "It's nice to have something people are so curious about." CHEERS FOR SPEARS If you're hungry for fresh asparagus, Donnie Cline of New Beginning Organic Farm sells at the Charlotte Regional Farmers Market on Saturdays from 8 a.m. until about noon. Asparagus from Carrigan Farms is also available at the market and at the Carrigan Farm roadside stand on N.C. 150 outside Mooresville. Daphine Hoffman sells at the Gastonia Farmers Market on Saturdays. Or you can call the farms: Carrigan Farms in Mooresville, (704) 664-1450 days; New Beginning Organic Farm in Lincoln County, (704) 462-2505; Daphine & Sons in Lincolnton, (704) 735-0325. ------------------------------------------------------------ NewsHound is a service of Knight Ridder. For more information, write to: speak@newshound.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon May 3 16:59:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11546 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16746 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA28472; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:48:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28057 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:42:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA25342 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA25147 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id QAA28083 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nyc1cdb.ups.com ([10.20.227.50]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id QAA28078 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010901be95a5$4f8c74a0$32e3140a@nyc1cdb.ups.com> Reply-To: "Ann Sterling" From: "Ann Sterling" To: Subject: archives? Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:41:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 223 Are there archives on this list? I'm especially interested in living mulches and mulches in general at the moment, Thanks Ann Sterling nyc1axw@nermail.ups.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon May 3 21:33:28 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16620 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14536 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA17004; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:23:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.174.90.198] (mac198.ed.uiuc.edu [128.174.90.198]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16738 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:18:46 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jbarclay@mail.prairienet.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 20:17:50 -0600 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: John Barclay Subject: CSA-L FAQ Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 224 This is posted periodically to the list. John Barclay, Urbana, IL --------------------------------------------------------- Frequently Asked Questions for CSA-L Networking List (available at http://www.prairienet.org/pcsa/csa-l.html) 1. What is CSA-L? 2. What is Community Supported Agriculture? 3. How do I subscribe to CSA-L? 4. How do I unsubscribe to CSA-L? 5. What is appropriate to post to CSA-L? 6. How do I post to CSA-L? 7. Who subscribes to CSA-L? 8. Where can I find archives of CSA-L? 9. How can I find a CSA where I live? 10. What are some useful CSA organizations? 11. What are some good books, articles, and videos of CSA? 12. What are some CSA Resources on the World Wide Web. ******************************************************* 1. WHAT IS CSA-L? The e-mail list "CSA-L@prairienet.org" is for networking on Community Supported Agriculture. We hope to see discussions on goals, distribution styles, outreach tools, member retention, educational work, connections with non-CSA organizations, etc. We also would like to see the exchange of newsletter articles and information about resources on CSA such as networking organizations, books, journals, videos, audio tapes from conferences, speaker tours of interest to CSAs, etc. In short, we would like to take advantage of the collective knowledge of as many CSA's as possible to help the CSA movement grow and strengthen! The listowners are John Barclay (jbarclay@prairienet.org) of Prairieland CSA in Champaign, Illinois and Sarah Milstein (milstein@pipeline.com) of Just Food in New York, New York. ******************************************************* 2. What is Community Supported Agricutlure Community Supported Agriculture is a partnership between farmers and consumers. In CSA, consumers buy products directly from the farm, and pay for them in advance. Farmers do their best to produce sufficient quantity and quality of fresh, nutritious food for their customers' needs and palates. In some CSAs, people pay in advance to support a farm for a season. In return, these 'shareholders' or 'sharers' receive a share of whatever the farm has ready to harvest each week. In other CSAs, also called subscription farms, people subscribe to a share of a given value, prepaying monthly or quarterly. Although the size of subscription shares don't change throughout the year, the content varies with the season. CSA gives non-farmers a chance to get more involved in producing and distributing their own food. Farms sponsor tours, workdays, and even 'workshares' to bring shareholders out to the farm. CSAs also often ask shareholders to help deliver shares, sponsor drop-off sites, manage shareholder lists, write newsletters, and more ******************************************************* 2. HOW DO I SUBSCRIBE TO CSA-L? Send a message to "listproc@prairienet.org" with "subscribe CSA-L Firstname Lastname" in the message. Put your first and last names in place of Firstname and Lastname and omit the quotes. You may leave the subject line blank. ******************************************************* 3. HOW DO I UNSUBSCRIBE TO CSA-L? Send a message to "listproc@prairienet.org" with "unsubscribe CSA-L" in the message. Omit the quotes. You may leave the subject line blank. If this doesn't work, send an e-mail to jbarclay@prairienet.org and I will unsubscribe you. ******************************************************* 4. WHAT IS APPROPRIATE TO POST TO CSA-L? All messages should meet the following criteria: -> Messages should be related to the purpose of the list. -> Messages should have a clear subject heading. -> Messages between individuals should not go to the entire list unless the information in them may be of interest to the list. -> Messages should include a good signature which includes your name, any organization that you represent, and where you are located geographically. -> Questions that are answered in the Frequently Asked Questions Postings (FAQs) should be avoided. These guidelines are to improve the quality and effectiveness of the list as a networking tool. As the number of subscribers to the list grows, the success of the list will depend on the quality of our postings. ******************************************************* 5. HOW DO I POST TO CSA-L? To post a message to the whole list, send it to CSA-L@prairienet.org In order to post to CSA-L, you must be subscribed to the list and send the message from the account name that you are subscribed on. In other words, If you have several e-mail accounts or aliases, you need to send e-mail from the account you subscribed from. ******************************************************* 6. WHO SUBSCRIBES TO CSA-L? Over 200 farmers, CSA members, students studying CSA, and other interested parties from around the world. To get a list of the subscribers send a message to "listproc@prairienet.org" with "recipients CSA-L" in the body and a current list will be sent to you. Some subscriber biographies are available on the CSA-L web page. ******************************************************* 7. WHERE CAN I FIND ARCHIVES OF POSTINGS TO CSA-L? On the world wide web at: http://csf.colorado.edu/sustainability/plants/csa/ ******************************************************* 8. HOW CAN I FIND A CSA WHERE I LIVE? CSANA has an online listing of CSAs at: http://www.umass.edu./umext/CSA Call the Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Association toll-free CSA/BDA Consumer Hot Line (1-800-516-7797) to request a free list of the CSA/BDA farms and/or gardens in your state. CSA West is a resource for finding CSAs on the west coast of the U.S., especially California. (408/459-3964). They have an online listing of CSAs at: ******************************************************* 9. WHAT ARE SOME USEFUL NATIONAL AND REGIONAL RESOURCE ORGANIZATIONS ON CSA? CSA OF NORTH AMERICA (CSANA), founded by the recently deceased Robyn Van En, will be one of the lead organizations in the Northeast CSA Conference, scheduled for January 1998. Tel: 413.528.4374. http://www.umass.edu./umext/CSA THE BIODYNAMIC FARMING AND GARDENING ASSOCIATION, Inc. is a major promoter of CSA in North America, especially in the Northeast. Located in Kimberton, PA, the Association publishes a bi-monthly newsletter, sponsors a CSA conference every winter and maintains a large and remarkably comprehensive database of established CSAs in North America. On request, the Association will provide a list of CSAs for any given area. They also sell Louise's Leaves. They can be reached at 1.800.516.7797 or PO Box 550, Kimberton, PA 19442. http://www.biodynamics.com/. EQUITY TRUST, INC. is a community development organization that has created a revolving-loan fund for CSAs to acquire and develop agricultural land with appropriate conservation easements and/or other tenure arrangements that serve both farmers and communities. Their Fund for Conservation and Community Supported Agriculture allows investors to make unusually safe, flexible financial investments that support progressive social change. Equity Trust also provides technical assistance and advises CSAs on lend tenure issues. Equity Trust can be reached at 539 Beach Pond Road, Voluntown, CT 06384. Tel: 860.376.6174. JUST FOOD. Just Food is building connections between urban communities and regional small farms. During the 1996-97 season, we were instrumental in enabling six new CSAs to begin delivery in New York City. For the 1997-98 season, Just Food will be focusing on low-income residents' access to CSA. We are not a core group, BUT WE ARE HERE FOR YOU, AND WE CAN HELP YOUR CSA TAKE ROOT AND GROW IN THE CITY. Contact Sarah Milstein or Kathy Lawrence, at any point & with any questions: 290 Riverside Drive, #15D, New York, NY 10025-5287; Tel: 212/666.2168; Fax: 212.531.4849; Email: milstein@pipeline.com CSA WEST. CSA West was founded to expand the CSA movement by offering regional information to farmers, prospective and current CSA members, the media, student/interns, and related non-profit organizations. CSA projects are very much the product of a grassroots movement, where farmers and other CSA organizers swap information among themselves. We strive to expand this exchange of new ideas, tried-and-true practices, and helpful tips on running CSAs among new, old, and potential participants in the western United States. csawest@caff.org. 916-756-8518, extension 27; fax: 916-756-7857 US mail: CAFF, PO Box 363, Davis, CA 95617. http://www.caff.org/caff/programs/ MADISON AREA CSA COALITION (MACSAC) maintains an updated directory of CSA farms serving the Madison, WI area and sponsor several CSA-related events each year, including a CSA Farm Fair in March, farm tours during the summer, and conferences and grower workshops in the fall and winter. We also have ongoing regular meetings which are open to the public. Karen Foley-Stauss c/o Wisconsin Rural Development Center, 125 Brookwood Dr., Mt. Horeb, WI 53572, 608/437-5971. ******************************************************* 10. WHAT ARE SOME GOOD BOOKS, ARTICLES, AND VIDEOS OF CSA? FARMS OF TOMORROW: COMMUNITY SUPPORTED FARMS, FARM SUPPORTED COMMUNITIES, by Trauger Groh and Steven McFadden. Although published in 1990 -- only five years into the CSA movement in this country -- the book is still relevant today. With a section on the troubled relationship between modern agriculture, environment, people and food, plus profiles of seven CSAs that are beginning to address these problems, it's a very readable and useful work. Farms of Tomorrow is available from the Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association (see above). A new version will be published later this year. COMMUNITY SUPPORTED AGRICULTURE. . . MAKING THE CONNECTION. A 1995 HANDBOOK FOR PRODUCERS. Presented by University of California Cooperative Extension Placer County and Small Farm Center, UC Davis. 198 pages ** binder format. MAKING THE CONNECTION pulls together the experience of many innovative projects. While describing the diversity of CSA, this handbook for producers also addresses common questions and concerns including: What is CSA?, Developing a CSA, Finding and keeping members, Production for CSA, Managing the shares. $25. Contact UC Cooperative Extension at 916-889-7385 for ordering information or on the CSA-L web page or e-mail ceplacer@ucdavis.edu. THE NORTHEAST REGIONAL FOOD GUIDE, published by cornell coop extension, has excellent information and tips On eating local, seasonal produce. To order, call 607.255.2080. GROWING FOR MARKET is a monthly newsletter that has articles by and about CSA farmers. Good ideas and honest discussion abound. Subscriptions are $27/year. Gfm, fairplain publications, P.O. box 3747, Lawrence, KS 66046; Tel/fax: 913.841.2559. ******************************************************* 11. What are some CSA Resources on the World Wide Web? Links to all the web sites have found related to CSAs can be found at: http://www.prairienet.org/pcsa/CSA-L.html I'm not dilligent about updating these web pages, but they are agood place to start. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 09:14:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24882 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13878 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA13461; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:05:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web602.mail.yahoo.com (web602.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.166]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA12844 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:53:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990504125256.12535.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.211.17.33] by web602.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 04 May 1999 05:52:56 PDT Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 05:52:56 -0700 (PDT) From: jared volpe Subject: archives To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 225 I've been trying to access the archives. They start on Tue 05 Mar 1996 - 00:00:-44229 MST and end on Sat 09 Jan 1999 - 15:31:11 MST. Where are the current posts? Thanks, Jared _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 09:45:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA25332 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24356 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA15431; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:36:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13869 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:10:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA01572 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:10:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-53.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.53) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001523; Tue May 4 08:09:58 1999 Message-ID: <007601be962f$1edd4700$4efa6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Our advertisment Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:07:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 226 I wrote a few days ago that we were putting an ad in a local paper. Some people have written private e-mails for info. I thought I'd answer to the list. Well yikes it worked! This ad in a way was a huge leap of faith, especially for my cautious and a bit cheap husband. As I said before, sometimes its good when your business partner is willing to take risks(training the draft horses, but thats another story). The ad was close to $800. It is a 6 week deal in a once a week free newspaper that goes to about 4 towns. The deal included a small article, however they like the farmyness so much the article was about a full page. The first ad was full page (the pages are a bit smaller than normal paper). The ad department basically designed the ad. Sean (our business partner) did the leg work, gave them brochures, explained CSA, gave them a few pictures of the animals. The add was basically black and white with some of the words in a wierd sort of teal green. Pictures of veggies surrounded the edges. The animals were cut and pasted from their pictures and their names written next to them. The entire list of offered veggies was listed. Well it ran on Friday. Since them we've got more than 20 calls and about 15 have signed up, so far. With some of last years people we are at about 20 members. There are still a few outstanding brouchures floating around. We gave tours to about a dozen people all but one signed up on the spot. We are closing at 30. Which was our dream upper limit. I feel like I've had nothing but caffine for 3 days. I am pleased (the guys are estatic), but "scared". Pressure is on. The garden was beautiful last years, fingers crossed we'll be even more beautiful. Question How do you child proff a farm!:). Lots of little kids joining (well medium amount), they run everywhere. My kids are teenagers(and to toot my own horn I never let them run wild). I am thinking of one of those chain link dog run things with the wire roof! Think I will get a sand box, suggestions? How are these people going to pick beans with kids running around! I know be careful what you wish for! Well its finally drizzling here hope it pours. Need to print some more brouchures. Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 12:44:45 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29557 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26929 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04926; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:34:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04799 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:33:34 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from ringo.excite.com ([199.172.152.145]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990504163302.DZMI20409.fortune@ringo.excite.com>; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:33:02 -0700 To: "Dan Hook" , csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Baby proofing a Farm Message-Id: <925835582.3850.304@excite.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:33:02 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.36 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 227 Baby proofing, I have been thinking about this as there are several families with kids and a good kid exp sells the CSA. If there are several parents designate one to do kid watching while the others work. Set up a kids garden that they plant (with adult supervision). Take the kids on a tour of all the dangerous places on the farm and tell them they cannot go there. If they see the dangerous off limits places theyt are no longer curious and won't be nearly as tempted to check them out again (there will be one or two...). If you have a hay barn encourage them to build forts with the bales-this activity keeps them busy for hours and is safe with kids over 6. Do you have any teachers in your CSA? They are a wealth of kid activity ideas. Have a meeting with the parents about keeping the kids safe, come up with safety rules and a supervision system everyone can live with. You can't allow the kids to run wild the destruction potential is too great and a lot of parents don't realise this. They think farms are some sort of indestructable safe haven (Not). Tell them they are still responsible for the kid's actions even on the farm. Note new web site URL-still being built as I get time.... Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 14:41:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02506 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22234 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15688; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:33:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15569 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:32:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA24911; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:31:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2-178.ix.netcom.com(209.110.252.178) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024849; Tue May 4 13:31:05 1999 Message-ID: <009f01be965b$fc6aca80$4efa6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Baby proofing a Farm Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:28:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 228 Thank-you for the suggestions. I am going to write a Welcome edition of my Newsletter I guess I must included a paragrapgh about safety etc. I have just got to figure out out to sweetly say, "Watch your offspring". I liked your web page. Beth -----Original Message----- From: goodows@excite.com To: Dan Hook ; csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 12:34 PM Subject: Baby proofing a Farm >Baby proofing, I have been thinking about this as there are several families >with kids and a good kid exp sells the CSA. >If there are several parents designate one to do kid watching while the >others work. Set up a kids garden that they plant (with adult supervision). >Take the kids on a tour of all the dangerous places on the farm and tell >them they cannot go there. If they see the dangerous off limits places theyt >are no longer curious and won't be nearly as tempted to check them out again >(there will be one or two...). If you have a hay barn encourage them to >build forts with the bales-this activity keeps them busy for hours and is >safe with kids over 6. Do you have any teachers in your CSA? They are a >wealth of kid activity ideas. Have a meeting with the parents about keeping >the kids safe, come up with safety rules and a supervision system everyone >can live with. You can't allow the kids to run wild the destruction >potential is too great and a lot of parents don't realise this. They think >farms are some sort of indestructable safe haven (Not). Tell them they are >still responsible for the kid's actions even on the farm. > >Note new web site URL-still being built as I get time.... > >Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 15:12:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03294 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03143 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18307; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:05:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.174.90.198] (mac198.ed.uiuc.edu [128.174.90.198]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18243 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:04:50 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jbarclay@mail.prairienet.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990504125256.12535.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:03:53 -0600 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: John Barclay Subject: New Archives Location for CSA-L Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 229 The new CSA-L archives are at: http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/csa.html I'll fix that FAQ before I send it out again as it gives the wrong location. Communications for a Sustainable Future archives CSA-L as a favor to the CSA Community and to support their mission. They have a lot of good content on their web site at: http://csf.colorado.edu/ John Barclay From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 15:17:53 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03430 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05145 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18720; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:10:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18458 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:08:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:08:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905041908.OAA18458@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 23419 invoked from network); 4 May 1999 19:08:12 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as000-32.iquest.net (209.43.47.32) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 4 May 1999 19:08:12 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Dan Hook" From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Baby proofing a Farm Cc: , Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 230 Hello, everyone. I've been silently reading these messages--but wow, we do have a lot in common! Can't help but join in... The first pick up day of my CSA last year resulted in a member bringing 10 of her church friends--each of which brought at least 4 children with them. After a couple of minutes of panic I realized that we had to have rules and they had to be communicated in a serious fashion. All of our farm info now carries the message that children are welcome only with constant parent supervision because farms can be places where they can get hurt. We tell them this as an expression of concern over their childrens' well-being. If a child does something to endanger themself we immediately tell (not ask) them to stop. If they continue we ask the parents to take care of it. We have special places for the kids to keep busy--a bed of edible flowers and cherry tomatoes to munch on, fossil hunting spots, a walking path to a small woods (fenced and impossible to get lost in)... We serve popcorn and herb tea on a picnic table near a swingset. We try to make it fun--but we are very clear about what they can and cannot do. Machinery and tools are off limits. Kids are not allowed in the toolshed, or past a certain point in the barn (blocked off). Trash gets thrown in the trash can--and if a child throws it on the ground they get told to pick it up and put it where it belongs. We also have the hard and fast rule NO PETS. This came as a result of crop damage followed by a dog almost hanging itself when it jumped over a fence. If you just let them know--this is for their protection--the message is sweet enough. You do it because you care, not because you are being "mean." Only once in four years has a kid pushed things. He was about 14 and thought that jumping up and down in the front loader was the thing to do. That's when the blockade went up in the barn. Most of the time the kids are great. No one has ever complained and we get a lot of hand made cards and such from the kids so they seem to love us despite the discipline. It also helps to have kids around who know the rules. Mine are grown but the grandkids and friend's kids are around a lot. They all like the social aspects of pick up day and the mom's enjoy it too. At 02:28 PM 5/4/99 -0400, Dan Hook wrote: >Thank-you for the suggestions. I am going to write a Welcome edition of my >Newsletter I guess I must included a paragrapgh about safety etc. I have >just got to figure out out to sweetly say, "Watch your offspring". I liked >your web page. Beth >-----Original Message----- >From: goodows@excite.com >To: Dan Hook ; csa-l@prairienet.org > >Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 12:34 PM >Subject: Baby proofing a Farm > > >>Baby proofing, I have been thinking about this as there are several >families >>with kids and a good kid exp sells the CSA. >>If there are several parents designate one to do kid watching while the >>others work. Set up a kids garden that they plant (with adult supervision). >>Take the kids on a tour of all the dangerous places on the farm and tell >>them they cannot go there. If they see the dangerous off limits places >theyt >>are no longer curious and won't be nearly as tempted to check them out >again >>(there will be one or two...). If you have a hay barn encourage them to >>build forts with the bales-this activity keeps them busy for hours and is >>safe with kids over 6. Do you have any teachers in your CSA? They are a >>wealth of kid activity ideas. Have a meeting with the parents about keeping >>the kids safe, come up with safety rules and a supervision system everyone >>can live with. You can't allow the kids to run wild the destruction >>potential is too great and a lot of parents don't realise this. They think >>farms are some sort of indestructable safe haven (Not). Tell them they are >>still responsible for the kid's actions even on the farm. >> >>Note new web site URL-still being built as I get time.... >> >>Lucy Goodman-Owsley >>Boulder Belt CSA >>New Paris, OH >>http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________________ >>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ >> >> > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 15:58:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA04859 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19519 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA21618; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:51:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21522 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:49:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA08700; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:49:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-240.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.240) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007444; Tue May 4 14:44:15 1999 Message-ID: <00ac01be9666$353eeee0$4efa6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Cecilia Bowman" Cc: , Subject: Re: Baby proofing a Farm Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:42:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 231 Dear Cecila, Thank-you for joining in. I like your suggestions. Love the no pets! Beth >Hello, everyone. I've been silently reading these messages--but wow, we do >have a lot in common! Can't help but join in... > >The first pick up day of my CSA last year resulted in a member bringing 10 >of her church friends--each of which brought at least 4 children with them. >After a couple of minutes of panic I realized that we had to have rules and >they had to be communicated in a serious fashion. All of our farm info now > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 17:19:41 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA06828 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA20579 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA27782; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:11:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27526 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:08:18 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from flash.excite.com ([199.172.152.79]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990504210746.FBTH20409.fortune@flash.excite.com> for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:07:46 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Baby proofing a Farm Message-Id: <925852065.22127.838@excite.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 14:07:45 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.109 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 232 We have a no pet rule too. A couple of years ago we had a "nice dog" charge the chickens and was almost thur the fence before anybody could stop her. We do have to explain the no pets rule because we have dogs and cats etc but they know the rules and do very little harm and lots of good. Kids love discipline and don't get enough of it these days if you ask me. Farms are wonderful places to teach kids about resposibilities. They can teach the parents about responsibility too. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 17:48:19 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA07821 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA00620 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00336; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:40:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00280 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:40:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:40:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905042140.QAA00280@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 14101 invoked from network); 4 May 1999 21:40:17 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as004-121.iquest.net (HELO iq-ind-as000-32.iquest.net) (209.43.54.121) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 4 May 1999 21:40:17 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: goodows@excite.com From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Baby proofing a Farm Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 233 Just wondering--how many of you find that the majority of your members home school? It seems to be the majority in my CSA do. At 02:07 PM 5/4/99 PDT, goodows@excite.com wrote: >We have a no pet rule too. A couple of years ago we had a "nice dog" charge >the chickens and was almost thur the fence before anybody could stop her. We >do have to explain the no pets rule because we have dogs and cats etc but >they know the rules and do very little harm and lots of good. > >Kids love discipline and don't get enough of it these days if you ask me. >Farms are wonderful places to teach kids about resposibilities. They can >teach the parents about responsibility too. >Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 18:34:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA08679 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16240 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA03945; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:26:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03857 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:25:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA05758; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:25:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-17.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.17) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005711; Tue May 4 17:24:55 1999 Message-ID: <00bd01be967c$a7f7d260$4efa6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Baby proofing a Farm Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:22:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 234 You guys are wise. I thought of the fact that we have two dogs and one cat and the various farm animals. But I am going to blame the no pet rule on the livestock. Its not a lie. One of my dogs (ours know the rules as well) won't go near the donkey, she's been kicked! The other dog is quick and the donkey just glares at him :). It seems that our new membership is a split of ages older , older kids, young, very young kids. I hope some "older" kids 8+ join they can be fun. Teaching them about growing and animals. I want to say I read on someone elses web page that they had lots of home schoolers. I had our farm listed in a home schooling newsletter, that we would allow homeschoolers to study. No one called but they may as the good weather allows. Thanks to the veterans. Beth -----Original Message----- From: goodows@excite.com To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Baby proofing a Farm >We have a no pet rule too. A couple of years ago we had a "nice dog" charge >the chickens and was almost thur the fence before anybody could stop her. We >do have to explain the no pets rule because we have dogs and cats etc but >they know the rules and do very little harm and lots of good. > >Kids love discipline and don't get enough of it these days if you ask me. >Farms are wonderful places to teach kids about resposibilities. They can >teach the parents about responsibility too. >Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 18:51:08 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09150 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22029 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05241; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:43:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05136 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:42:58 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (14443) by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dTSQa13120 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:37:15 EDT Subject: Re: Visiting Pets (was baby-proofing a farm) To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 235 >From our brochure and repeated with a bit of expansion in our member handbook: "Visitors are welcome on Sunday afternoons between 2 and 6 PM or at other times by appointment. Pets are safer and happier at home." Lots of people think it's a fine and wonderful thing to bring their dogs up to the farm for a run, with or without permission. One look at my Great Pyrenees livestock guardian -- who takes his job VERY seriously -- is enough to convince most of them that the park is a better spot for such sport. The statement in the member handbook is more direct: "Dogs and other pets are not permitted at the farm. No exceptions." Period. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 18:51:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09158 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22114 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05310; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:43:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05175 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:43:09 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (14443) by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dZDKa10990 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <27414939.2460d172@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:40:50 EDT Subject: Re: Baby proofing a Farm To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 236 In a message dated 5/4/99 5:09:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, goodows@excite.com writes: << Farms are wonderful places to teach kids about resposibilities. They can teach the parents about responsibility too. >> Ooo, oooo, and delayed gratification, too! Got my first phone call from somebody wanting tomatoes today. I mean, she wanted them today. Didn't have a CLUE that we don't get tomatoes here in Zone 4/5 until late August if we're lucky and get them off to an early start. "They're in the grocery store, what's your problem?" was her response. God bless ignorance, if it wasn't there nobody would need us, right? Dori Green You know where The more I see of people, the more I appreciate goats. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 18:58:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09334 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24284 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05803; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:49:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05748 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:49:18 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (14443) by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dPVKa10989 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <84f2e907.2460d323@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:48:03 EDT Subject: Re: Baby proofing a Farm To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 237 In a message dated 5/4/99 5:40:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Lucy writes: << Kids love discipline and don't get enough of it these days if you ask me. >> Thought about this for a few minutes. I don't think it's the discipline they like, but it's the logic of it, and our willingness to explain the reasons for it. So many rules today are accompanied by that zombie stare of "Well, that's the way it is" because some bureaucrat's brain has been hog-tied and they can't make it work any more. Children aren't as constrained by those ties, and can see connections and logic patterns with remarkable ease and clarity. I've never seen a child who didn't respond positively to somebody who treated them as a rational being with a usable brain, rather than as a receptable for rules and regulations without rhyme or reason. There I go again, spilling the beans that produce is just a by-product here, what I'm really growing is Revolution! Viva Community! Down with the Oppression of children, women, workers, and men! Huzzah! Give Peas A Chance! Dori Green yadda yadda (and goat slave and walking gnat feast, itchy scratchy) From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 19:04:37 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA09450 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26624 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA06398; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:57:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06338 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:56:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from busson (akron-216-196-25-103.raex.com [216.196.25.103]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA06744 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000101be9681$16694d60$6719c4d8@busson> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: the no pet rule Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:54:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 238 Wow you guys, You are all way ahead of me. It would never occur to me that anyone would want to bring their pet to my place. But now that I have thought of it I sure wouldn't want someone elses yapping dog scaring the chickens, goats, ect. And their children! Oh my! My own are a challenge but they know the rules and don't at least do dangerous stuff. I can now envision someones little sweetheart starting the tractor and plowing down his/her folks! Rules are definately in order. I think that it is true that if you present your rules in light of common sense most won't balk. My new brochure has netted me exactly ONE customer who has paid up, where there's one there may be more. Hope so. I am beginning my big yearly battle with the flea beetles again right now. I would welcome anyone's homely cures for the common flea beetle, they are already making the tiny arugula and chinese cabbages look like bird shot hit them. Enjoying all the posts, Carol Busson Dragonfly Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 4 20:32:50 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA11018 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA24347 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA12263; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:23:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12189 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:23:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA21800; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:22:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-177.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.177) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021680; Tue May 4 19:21:50 1999 Message-ID: <00e801be968c$fdacca20$4efa6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: teaching Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:19:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 239 Honestly the whole having to make rules is such a drag, but I think someof the educational stuff could be fun. I agree with Dori kids like to learn. I liked her suggestion of explaining. Have the kids touch a horses hoof see how hard it is, how sharp the harrow is etc. I am going to see about some fun planting stuff. On of my aquaintances is joining and her 6 year old son is sharp. She told me he doesn't really like veggies that much, hence the 1/2 share. Well I said to my friend her coworker. Ask her what Patricks favorite veggies is. I will give her a kit. Container with the seeds in it. He grows it, gives it back to me I plant it and tag it with his name and really make sure he gets to pick it. She loved it. I should think he would think that was one special veggie. Ps. if it wilted I would switcharoo. I think I will offer this to all the people with kids. That should make the rules taste sweeter and there is nothing like getting to live vicariously through someone elses new experiences. Sean our partner, whos mother always had a garden but never planted potatoes was such a hoot when digging, he would woo and aha it was fun. He's experienced this year though. Once again you guys are great. Thank-you, Beth >Thought about this for a few minutes. I don't think it's the discipline they >like, but it's the logic of it, and our willingness to explain the reasons >for it. So many rules today are accompanied by that zombie stare of "Well, >that's the way it is" because some bureaucrat's brain has been hog-tied and >they can't make it work any more. > >Children aren't as constrained by those ties, and can see connections and >logic patterns with remarkable ease and clarity. I've never seen a child who >didn't respond positively to somebody who treated them as a rational being >with a usable brain, rather than as a receptable for rules and regulations >without rhyme or reason. > >There I go again, spilling the beans that produce is just a by-product here, >what I'm really growing is Revolution! Viva Community! Down with the >Oppression of children, women, workers, and men! Huzzah! Give Peas A Chance! > >Dori Green >yadda yadda (and goat slave and walking gnat feast, itchy scratchy) > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 6 08:01:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA17618 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 08:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA27592 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 07:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA02137; Thu, 6 May 1999 06:51:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02053 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 06:50:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.90] (pm3shep1-163-50.intrepid.net [209.190.163.50]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA08142 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 07:50:32 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <192759d7.24498043@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 07:47:29 -0500 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Flea Beetles Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 240 The flea beetles attacked pretty early this year: radish tops, turnip tops, all the chinese cabbages. They'd be in the arugula if I'd dare to plant it!!! :-) Has anyone had luck controlling these beetle infestations once they have begun? I plan on using a peppermint spray shortly, but, unfortunately, I've heard fromlocal growers that this will NOT do the trick. I have also heard that there are beneficial nematodes that can 'wipe out' flea beetles over the winter. Has anyone had experience with this approach? We have them pretty bad here. Thanks -Allan Balliett =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 6 08:16:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA17858 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 08:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA03083 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 08:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA02595; Thu, 6 May 1999 07:01:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02544 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 07:00:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.198] [198.69.131.226] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A5722B0512; Thu, 06 May 1999 08:05:06 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 08:01:25 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Food Irradiation Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 241 This came from Public Citizen's Critical Mass Energy Project > Unless you act by May 18, the Nuclear Industry > Will Succeed in Forcing Irradiated Food Down Our Throats! > >*** A new Food and Drug Administration (FDA) rule would allow manufacturers >to sell irradiated food without any label warning consumers. By nullifying >the chief obstacle to the expanded use of radiation --consumer >opposition-- this rule would pave the way for a significant expansion of the >sale of irradiated food and give a boost to the nuclear industry. > > This would be a disaster!!! > >*** Over 550 new facilities would need to be built to irradiate various >foodstuffs if irradiation expands to according to industry projections. > >*** Food irradiation facilities have a frightening record of accidents and >other safety incidents. > >*** According to a Carnegie-Mellon study, operating irradiators just to >treat meat and poultry (much less spices, wheat, and other foodstuffs) would >be extremely risky, with a 99.7% chance of multiple major incidents at these >facilities (a major incident is defined by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission >(NRC) as "those that result in a release or spill of radioactive material, >bodily harm, or a long term shut down of the facility"). > >*** The long term health effects of eating irradiated food are unknown. >Irradiation reduces the vitamin content of food and creates new chemical >substances called radiolytic products. Some of these substances are known >carcinogens, like benzene, and others are completely new substances that >have not been tested for toxicity. > > *** ACT NOW!!! *** > ** What you can do today ** > >*** Please write to the FDA and demand that the comment period be extended >past May 18. Tell the FDA that food treated with radiation be indefinitely >labeled with the radura (the international symbol for irradiated food) and a >statement indicating it was treated with radiation. Say the absence of such >a statement would be misleading because irradiation destroys vitamins and >causes changes in sensory and spoilage qualities that are not obvious or >expected by the consumer. Please DO NOT write a general statement opposing >irradiation. The powers that be have already approved irradiation, we can >only fight to keep the public informed (A sample letter can be found below). > >*** Write your Representative and Senators, telling them to oppose the FDA >rule (a sample letter can be found below). > >*** Send this e-mail to as many concerned citizens as possible. > >When writing to FDA, refer to Docket #98N-1038, "Irradiation in the >production, processing, and handling of food". > >Send comments before May 18, 1999 to: >Dockets Management Branch (HFA-305) >Food and Drug Administration >5630 Fishers Lane, Room 1061 >Rockville, MD 20852 >or >Send e-mail to FDADockets@oc.fda.gov and/or FDADockets@fda.gov >(Put Docket #98N-1038 in the subject line) > >NOTE: E-mail is discouraged because e-mails are often thrown out. A written >letter is the most effective means of communication. > >SAMPLE LETTER TO FDA: > >Dockets Management Branch (HFA-305) >Food and Drug Administration >5630 Fishers Lane, Room 1061 >Rockville, Maryland 20852 > >Re: Docket No. 98N-1038, Irradiation in the Production, Processing, and >Handling of Food > >To whom it may concern: > > I support the recommendation by the Center for Science in the Public >Interest regarding labeling of irradiated foods: > > "any foods, or any foods containing ingredients that have been >treated by >irradiation, should be labeled with a written statement on the principal >display panel indicating such treatment. The statement should be easy to >read and placed in close proximity to the name of the food and accompanied >by the international symbol. If the food is unpackaged, this information >should be clearly displayed on a poster in plain view and adjacent to where >the product is displayed for sale." > > Like other labels, irradiation labels are required by the FDA to be >truthful and not misleading. I believe that the terms "treated with >radiation" or "treated by irradiation" should be retained. Any phrase >involving the word "pasteurization" is misleading because pasteurization is >an entirely different process of rapid heating and cooling. > > I recognize the radura as information regarding a material fact of food >processing. The requirement for irradiation disclosure (both label and >radura) should not expire at any time in the future. The material fact of >processing remains. Even if some consumers become familiar with the radura, >new consumers (e.g., young people, immigrants) will not be. The symbol >should be clearly understandable at the point of purchase for everyone. If >there is no label, consumers will be misled into believing the food has not >been irradiated. > > I urge you to extend the comment period past its current end date >of May 18 >to allow more concerned citizens the time to write in about this issue. >Also, please place the comments received on the Internet so that the public >can be informed about who is participating in this comment process. > >Sincerely, > > >SAMPLE LETTER TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVE AND SENATORS > >The Honorable [ ] >Washington, D.C. [ ] > >Senator/Representative [ ], > > I have recently been made aware of a frightening development at the >Food >and Drug Administration. Under pressure from food manufacturers and >supporters of the nuclear industry, the FDA is considering a rule that would >remove labeling requirements for foods treated with radiation. The public >only has until May 18 to voice its objections to this rule. Currently, any >food treated with radiation during the production process is labeled with a >symbol known as a radura (the international symbol for irradiated foods) and >either a statement saying "treated with radiation" or "treated by >irradiation." The rule before the FDA would allow manufacturers to sell any >and all irradiated foods to the consumer with nary a mention of the use of >radiation during processing. This is bad for consumers. > > Despite the fact that the FDA has determined that radiation is safe for >food, many consumers, including myself, do not want to eat foods treated >with radiation. Radiation changes the texture, taste, nutritional value, >and chemical composition of foods. Radiation creates a heretofore unseen >class of unique radiolytic products that have never been tested for their >possible carcinogenic effects on humans. These are things that I do not >want to put into my body. > > This is a clear cut issue of a consumer being able to know what is >in their >food. We know what the fat, protein, carbohydrate, and vitamin content is >in our food, why can we not know whether our food has been treated with >radiation emanating from some of the most deadly substances known to man? I >implore you, as a constituent and a friend, to write a letter to the FDA >about this issue and ask them why your constituents should be kept in the >dark about whether their food has been irradiated and why the comment period >has been so short. Enclosed you will find the letter that I wrote to the >FDA about this issue. I hope it is helpful in formulating your own >comments. > >Sincerely, From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 6 10:28:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19798 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA21073 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA11894; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:19:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08997 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:01:14 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from doby.excite.com ([199.172.152.182]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990506140104.CWWJ11507.gigi@doby.excite.com> for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 07:01:04 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Flea Beetles Message-Id: <925999239.11773.426@excite.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 07:00:39 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.226 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 242 We use a lot of row cover on the crops you mentioned (plus eggplant, spuds, Mizuna, Mustards, cabbages, broccoli) for among other things flea beetle damage prevention. The plants don't mind the covers if you put the covers on low wire hoops. The white color reflects heat well so these cool loving plants tend not to get overheated and it takes care of the flea beetle problem if you get the covers on when the seeds/transplants go in. Covers also increase germination by keeping the soil surface wet and the soil undisturbed. Good Luck with the problem. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 6 10:41:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19983 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25460 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA13219; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:31:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12273 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:25:28 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (14412) by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dFILa20661 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8a401e35.2462ffcb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:23:07 EDT Subject: Re: Flea Beetles To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 243 I don't grow spring brassicas here, only autumn ones. Floating row covers right from the day of planting seem to keep them off the spring greens for me, and I'm putting up a LARGE hoop house for next year's beetle-prone crops. After this year's mild dry winter they're especially bad here. Hungry, just like the rest of us! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 6 10:45:28 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20110 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27104 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA13634; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:36:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13214 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:31:54 -0500 (CDT) From: JHatf18942@aol.com Received: from JHatf18942@aol.com (14373) by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dTTBa02446 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:30:09 EDT Subject: Re: Flea Beetles To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 244 Hello Allan We have had some success with Garlic Barrier. I have also tried planting arugula and red mustard as a trap crop. Neither is as sure a fix as row covers. Good Luck. Let me know what works for you. Greetings from the U.P. Jeff Hatfield Seeds & Spores From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 6 13:04:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23994 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22110 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA24295; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:54:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24176 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:53:07 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (7990) by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dOKa002445 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:50:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:50:57 EDT Subject: Re: Flea Beetles To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 245 Hi Allan, Control is such a relative term for flea beetles. I laminate a bunch of 3 X 5 white cards. Then I stick a pin in them and spray both sides with Tangle Foot. Place the traps every 20 sq ft of bed and replace frequently for about 2 weeks. New greens get planted in a different bed. Using chicken tractors between plantings has greatly reduced all pest outbreaks for us. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm < Has anyone had luck controlling these beetle infestations once they have begun?> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 6 16:23:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA29088 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02007 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA10036; Thu, 6 May 1999 15:16:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09955 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 15:15:26 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from doby.excite.com ([199.172.152.182]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990506201508.EGGM18062.ewey@doby.excite.com> for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:15:08 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Flea Beetles Message-Id: <926021693.22182.505@excite.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 13:14:53 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.135 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 246 Art, We used to do that too until we ran out of yellow plastic cards (yellow, I think, works better than white for flea beetles) but had a few two liter bottles that had had Squirt in them-The squirt labels are the sceaming yellow so favored by the flea beetles.) Well we filled them up with water to keep the bottles from flying away in the incessant wind here abouts and coated them with tanglefoot (I have a 1 gallon bucket of this stuff-my husband asked what are you going to do with all that Tanglefoot? That was 4 years ago and we have 2/3 left in the bucket and use it all the time-I was hoping it would be a lifetime supply but I think it will last another 3 years at best). We found that the water heated up during the day and became even more attractive to the flea beetles and that they didn't touch the far side of the bottle so after two weeks we just turned the bottle around for another go. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris,OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 6 20:09:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA04682 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA14767 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA25012; Thu, 6 May 1999 19:01:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whidbey.whidbey.com (ns.whidbey.com [204.94.52.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24920 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 19:00:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [204.94.53.205] (b3-53-205.whidbey.com [204.94.53.205]) by whidbey.whidbey.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17373 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 16:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Petersons Family Subject: flea beetles,slugs, cabbage root maggots, row covers Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 247 We use row covers too, but this year I'm using old ones (some with holes) and noticed the flea beetles and the fly of the cabbage root maggot got in underneath the cover and are having a fine time. I tried the nematodes once, with some success. It seems such a magical process; a sponge filled with invisible beings that, if treated according to directions, will solve a large problem. The best thing we did for our flea beetle prone crops was to rotate in a major way. We have 3 growing spaces that are widely separated. I grew little that a flea beetle ( or a cabbage root maggot) would like in my nearest garden for a year, and the next year was good. This year I see damage again. I also let the birds out in the gardens over winter - geese, ducks and chickens. I'm glad to see your article about chicken tractor use Art - that may be one of the best solutions to the pest problems. Slugs are another major problem for us, but this year is somewhat better because of strategic penning of ducks along two garden borders. I also kept ducks in half of our tunnel greenhouse all winter on the theory that their body heat would help the overwintering greens. That was only semi-successful, the ammonia became a problem, but there are not many slugs left in that tunnel now. I'd like to know others' experience with row covers. I started with Reemay , went on to Agryl and finally Tufbel from Peaceful Valley. Last year I got some like Agryl that were reinforced with a web but the reinforcement threads are now coming off and hooking themselves among the salad greens - very frustrating. The Tufbel is expensive, but does seem to last unless damaged by animals. I used a piece in an area the chickens were used to working over, and they destroyed it completely. Another long expensive piece was ruined by the dog who was entranced by the fishy smelling fertilizer I had used on transplants and dug each one up through the cover. I've solved that problem by ordering fertilizer early and letting the dog sleep among the bags in the garage all winter. Reemay lasts only one or two seasons and that seems wasteful. Do any of you have experience with a strong, long lasting row cover that isn't incredibly expensive? And while we're at it - How do you keep the row covers in place? I had some nice oak stakes that were great (laid out along the sides of beds) for several years, but they got mildewed and rotton eventually. Next I used 3 ft lengths of rebar - they're pretty good, but cause a lot of trouble if lost in the grass or soil and then tilled by a tractor. Now I'm using gallon pots filled with rocks. As I transplant I pick out rocks into the pots and have handy weights. They do tip over in wind gusts though. Dirt thrown up on the sides works, but seems to decay the cover faster. Any other good ideas are welcome! Molly From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 6 20:13:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA04775 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15995 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA25347; Thu, 6 May 1999 19:06:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24962 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 19:01:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03845 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 17:00:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Eliza Lindsay To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Flea Beetles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 248 When I first moved to central new york I came from Portland, Oregon and though I had seen flea beetles I didn't really know what a flea beetle problem was....I learned though :-) I think row covers is the best prevention. Of course, once you've got the flea beetles that won't help. I did try paprika and/or cayenne powder mixed with corn starch and applied dry and had *some* success with that in my home garden.... I am again back in portland and have traded the flea beetles for slugs.... :-) eliza From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 7 13:14:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21116 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13698 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15153; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:06:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14885 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:03:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905071703.MAA14885@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 133827273; Fri, 07 May 1999 17:03:14 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , "Petersons Family" Subject: Re: row covers, flea beetles and root maggots Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:47:22 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 249 We have been using Reemay ever since our dog chewed up the expensive tuffbell. The high priced stuff seemed to be really stiff, too, compared to Reemay, so really wanted hoops to keep it up and away from tender seedlings. We, too are concerned about the relatively short life of Reemay, and are intrigued with the cotton cover sold by FEDCO. It is not cheap, though, so if it doesn't last a good long time before you compost it...Anyone with experience with it? We have had good success with flea beetles and root maggots with crop rotation-we, too have some widely separated garden spots. Another control for root maggots is a sprinkling of wood ashes around the stem of the plant. It needs to be replaced after rain. Avoid TOO much wood ash, of course, or you may raise the pH to unacceptable levels. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Petersons Family > To: csa-l@prairienet.org > Subject: flea beetles,slugs, cabbage root maggots, row covers > Date: Thursday, May 06, 1999 7:57 PM > > We use row covers too, but this year I'm using old ones (some with holes) > and noticed the flea beetles and the fly of the cabbage root maggot got in > underneath the cover and are having a fine time. I tried the nematodes > once, with some success. It seems such a magical process; a sponge filled > with invisible beings that, if treated according to directions, will solve > a large problem. The best thing we did for our flea beetle prone crops was > to rotate in a major way. We have 3 growing spaces that are widely > separated. I grew little that a flea beetle ( or a cabbage root maggot) > would like in my nearest garden for a year, and the next year was good. > This year I see damage again. I also let the birds out in the gardens over > winter - geese, ducks and chickens. I'm glad to see your article about > chicken tractor use Art - that may be one of the best solutions to the pest > problems. Slugs are another major problem for us, but this year is > somewhat better because of strategic penning of ducks along two garden > borders. I also kept ducks in half of our tunnel greenhouse all winter on > the theory that their body heat would help the overwintering greens. That > was only semi-successful, the ammonia became a problem, but there are not > many slugs left in that tunnel now. > I'd like to know others' experience with row covers. I started with Reemay > , went on to Agryl and finally Tufbel from Peaceful Valley. Last year I > got some like Agryl that were reinforced with a web but the reinforcement > threads are now coming off and hooking themselves among the salad greens - > very frustrating. The Tufbel is expensive, but does seem to last unless > damaged by animals. I used a piece in an area the chickens were used to > working over, and they destroyed it completely. Another long expensive > piece was ruined by the dog who was entranced by the fishy smelling > fertilizer I had used on transplants and dug each one up through the cover. > I've solved that problem by ordering fertilizer early and letting the dog > sleep among the bags in the garage all winter. Reemay lasts only one or > two seasons and that seems wasteful. Do any of you have experience with a > strong, long lasting row cover that isn't incredibly expensive? And while > we're at it - How do you keep the row covers in place? I had some nice oak > stakes that were great (laid out along the sides of beds) for several > years, but they got mildewed and rotton eventually. Next I used 3 ft > lengths of rebar - they're pretty good, but cause a lot of trouble if lost > in the grass or soil and then tilled by a tractor. Now I'm using gallon > pots filled with rocks. As I transplant I pick out rocks into the pots and > have handy weights. They do tip over in wind gusts though. Dirt thrown up > on the sides works, but seems to decay the cover faster. Any other good > ideas are welcome! > Molly > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 7 13:17:35 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21319 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:17:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14993 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15522; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:09:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root@mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15444 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:08:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 165.227.138.158 (sa-165-227-138-158.cruzio.com [165.227.138.158]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id KAA20413 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3732AF13.2537@mariquita.com> Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:14:59 +0000 From: Julia Wiley Reply-To: csa@mariquita.com Organization: Mariquita Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: missed pickups Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 250 I've enjoyed the flea beetle discussions, now the perfect, pest-free produce is in the box and ready to go out to pre-paid customers... What do you do with members who forget their boxes? Right now we have our pickup site hosts call the office with the offenders to following morning, and I call them directly. It's becoming a fair amount of work! This is not an issue for those that only have a pickup site at their farm... We have 2 days of deliveries to 14 different sites in 3 counties. from Julia, the CSA coordinator, farm wife and CEO of Mariquita Farm. -- --------------------------------------------------- Mariquita Farm Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables (831)761-3226 e-mail: csa@mariquita.com web site: http://www.mariquita.com P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 --------------------------------------------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 7 15:00:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA23769 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22092 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA23947; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:52:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23839 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:51:29 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (14415) by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id rYJWa16495; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:50:13 EDT Subject: Re: missed pickups To: csa@mariquita.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 251 In a message dated 5/7/99 10:09:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, csa@mariquita.com writes: << This is not an issue for those that only have a pickup site at their farm... >> This is also an issue, although different, for those with farm pick-ups. Do you have a policy at the bigginning of the season regarding this? We tell our folks that if they don't get it on time, we sell or donate it. We have the luxury at the farm to hold the produce until the next morning this time of year but in the heat of the summer it is not possible without more refridgeration space than we have. Suzy Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 7 16:33:43 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25730 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA23314 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:26:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA00746; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:25:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA00588 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:24:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:24:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905072024.PAA00588@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 10389 invoked from network); 7 May 1999 20:24:43 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as001-189.iquest.net (HELO iq-ind-as003-224.iquest.net) (209.43.48.189) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 7 May 1999 20:24:43 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csa@mariquita.com From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: missed pickups Cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 252 We have the following policy on missed pickups: 1. *If they notify us in advance* that they cannot pickup then we give them these options: they get double next time, they can make it up with an equal value amount of extra items when available (like those mountains of extra tomatoes or summer squashes during the height of the harvest season) It is up to the member to keep track of missed weeks and tell us. This is all os much easier with members who have email! they can send a friend to get their share or give it to another designated member In no case will this policy cut into other members' shares--if there is not enough to go around (never happened yet) then they get nothing. NO guarantees but we try and usually succeed. 2. We always have a couple of extra weeks of harvest, early and late, where members who have missed can pick up (at the farm only) to make up for missed weeks (limited to 2 weeks) 3. Items not picked up at the farm get sold or donated to the local church. 4. Items not picked up at other sites are used or disposed of as the site's coordinator desires. If it is a long term member I go out of my way to make things up--even into the next year--but there are never any promises. In other words, you snooze, you lose. I do not call anyone about missed weeks unless it goes on for awhile and I am truly concerned that something is wrong. Things happen--deaths in the family, vacations, illness... for all of us. People who do not pick up regularly are probably not going to join the next year anyway, those that stay with you year after year are worth the extra effort of having a make up plan. This is one reason why it's best to have people come to the farm rather than deliver. At least the stuff that isn't picked up is there for you to sell or use. I do not deliver, but I do have pick up sites at retail stores, farm markets and at times, had them at restaurants. If the stuff wasn't picked up by a certain time, it became the property of the site. The restaurant used it. The other sites usually shared and/or ate it. > > At 09:14 AM 5/7/99 +0000, Julia Wiley wrote: >I've enjoyed the flea beetle discussions, now the perfect, pest-free >produce is in the box and ready to go out to pre-paid customers... > >What do you do with members who forget their boxes? > > Right now we have our pickup site hosts call the office with the >offenders to following morning, and I call them directly. It's becoming >a fair amount of work! This is not an issue for those that only have a >pickup site at their farm... We have 2 days of deliveries to 14 >different sites in 3 counties. > >from Julia, the CSA coordinator, farm wife and CEO of Mariquita Farm. >-- >--------------------------------------------------- > >Mariquita Farm >Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables >(831)761-3226 >e-mail: csa@mariquita.com >web site: http://www.mariquita.com >P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 > >--------------------------------------------------- > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 7 18:15:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA27725 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28500 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA09184; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:07:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09093 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:06:56 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (529) by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dKNCa04194 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1f7c82cc.2464bdbe@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:05:50 EDT Subject: Re: missed pickups To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 253 It's in the member agreement here: It is the member's responsibility to pick up their weekly share or arrange to have someone pick it up for them. Any shares not picked up within the posted time becomes the property of the pickup site host, to be disposed of as they wish. THERE ARE NO REFUNDS FOR SHARES NOT PICKED UP. Hasn't been a problem since we included that in the agreement. That's the only member responsibility (besides supervising their own kids on farm visits). Hosts enjoy having occasional spare produce to distribute to friends and neighbors. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 7 18:44:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28261 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06428 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11083; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:36:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from best.mailserver.com ([209.203.94.140]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10994 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:35:44 -0500 (CDT) From: To: Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:14:07 -0700 Message-ID: <43141423838475248@best.mailserver.com> Subject: MphasePressRelease Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 254

Kaufman Brothers, L.P. currently has a Buy(short-term)/Buy(long-term) rating on mPhase with a 12 to 18 month price target of $16.00

  • Press= Release
  • mPhase Aligns with McKibben to Launch Digital Video and Data Delivery System; Traverser(TM) DVDDS Provides Telcos Entry into Digital= Television Marketplace


    ATLANTA, April 22 /PRNewswire/ -- mPhase Technologies Inc., a developer of high-speed Internet access, digital video delivery and data transmission, has contracted with McKibben Communications to help launch its Traverser(TM) Digital Video= and Data Delivery System (DVDDS). McKibben will provide its industry expertise in the design and construction of the initial digital headends, the acquisition of programming, and the launch of the prototype 99 channel system at Hart Telephone this May.

    The Traverser(TM) provides Telecommunications carriers entry= into the digital television marketplace, leveraging their large investment in the existing copper wire infrastructure.

    Rather than receiving revenues solely from traditional voice service, Telcos are able to generate significant additional revenue streams from high-speed Internet data access and digital television transmission (CATV generated $26 billion in the U.S. in 1997) and combat cable competition in the telephony and Internet markets. mPhase has developed the only DSL technology offering the ability to transmit digital, multi-channel television over copper wire. mPhase's proprietary technology enables Telcos to provide digital television, voice and data simultaneously, without the necessity of laying expensive fiber-to-curb or incurring the cost of upgrading the hybrid= fiber coaxial plant.

    Because the twisted copper pair is a discreet and private communication between the Telco and the single customer, the quality of service transmitted by the mPhase network= architecture is much more dependable and secure than the other multiplexed or shared technology employed in cable delivery of voice,= television or data service. Video piracy is not possible with mPhase's technology. Adverse climate, weather, geographic or other external factors don't influence the delivery of data. Furthermore, data transmission over copper via the Traverser(TM) isn't degraded by an increase in the volume of subscribers using the product simultaneously.

    The transmission of digital television over cooper wire not only benefits areas with low cable penetration and provides an alternative to CATV, but also allows an alternative to DBS for consumers who currently receive some form of multi-channel distribution. The Traverser(TM) will ultimately offer up to 400 channels, compared to an average of 59 channels offered by CATV and 175 offered by DBS in 1997.

    mPhase's Traverser(TM) provides digital television with no prior geographic specifications other than a phone line. DBS subscribers need a clear view of the southwest horizon, which prevents many urban and other geographically limited residents from accessing DBS. DBS also lacks the ability to transmit local broadcast programming, while the Traverser(TM) enables Telcos to capture off-air and local broadcasts in their broadcast line-up.=

    Subsidiary mPhaseTV.net, an integrator and aggregator of both digital television programming and Internet content, provides content for the Telcos who install the Traverser(TM) DVDDS system. Programming can be customized by each Telco to meet the needs of its customers for local programming, ethnic channels, special interest or preferred movie packages. Internet access is provided through a proprietary mPhase web site, which consumers access through an mPhaseTV.net service provider. This unique package of Internet and television content provides Telcos with= a line-up of television programming available on a turnkey basis and a direct gateway to the Internet through the mPhase portal. Subscribers can conveniently pay for Internet access, digital television and phone line in a single billing option.

    A 4-channel system is currently running at Hartwell, Georgia-based Hart Telephone Company, an independent Telco leading the nation in advances in telecommunications and innovative approaches to traditional telecom delivery. Los Angeles-based McKibben Communications provides global television program origination and distribution, along with on-going services to the DTH and Cable industries and private networks. Services include conditional access control, scrambling= services, conversion to digital platforms and corporate communications.=

    For more information, contact mPhase Technologies at= 203-838-2741 or McKibben Communications on 818-678-2001. Visit mPhase at=
    http://www.mphasetech.com and http://www.mphasetv.net.= Visit McKibben Communications at http://www.mckibben.com.

    For more= information try these links.

  • Kaufman Bros., L.P. Report - 1 | Kaufman Bros., L.P. Report - 2 | mPhase Technologies, Inc. | Value Finder, Inc.
  • Disclaimer:

    This publication contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. The Company's actual results could differ materially from those set forth in the forward-looking statements, and may not= be construed as investment advice. This is not a solicitation to= buy or sell securities and this does not purport to be complete analysis of the company mentioned. Investing in securities is speculative and carries a high degree of risk. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Readers should consult with their own independent tax, business and financial advisers with respect to any investment, including any contemplated investment in the advertised company. All information contained in this advertisement should be independently Investigated. Investigate and fully understand all risks before investing. This= adversarial contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties including, but not limited to, quarterly fluctuations in results, the management of growth, competition and other risks detailed in the company&#146;s SEC filings. Actual results may differ materially from such information set forth information set forth herein.

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    Value Finder, Inc publishes information regarding selected companies involved in many different industries, which those interested in these companies may use as information relating to their interests or investments. Many companies featured by Value Finder, Inc are clients of Value Finder, Inc., which receives compensation for assistance in handling public relations and shareholder relations. Comments in Value Finder, Inc publications are the observations of Value Finder, Inc and contain sincere opinions on values and opportunities. They are not intended to be recommendations to buy, hold, or sell securities. Value Finder, Inc, as to accuracy and completeness derives most information in our media from the subject companies, without independent verification. Some of the subject companies are clients compensating Value Finder, Inc for various services it provides. Value Finder, Inc endeavors to research the industry and obtain independent views in preparing its publications, but there is no assurance of accuracy. Value Finder, Inc does not recommend, warrant or guaranty the success of any action taken in reliance on statements made in Value Finder, Inc publications. Investments in Internet companies are generally deemed to be highly speculative and to involve substantial risk, making it appropriate for readers to consult with professional investment advisors and to make independent investigations before acting on information published by Value Finder, Inc. The Internet industry is changing with great speed, making it appropriate to update information frequently, which Value Finder, Inc cannot undertake to assure. Value Finder, Inc owners, employees, writers, their families and associates may have investments in companies featured in Value Finder, Inc publications and may elect to sell these investments or buy additional investments in these companies at any time. The following companies featured in Value Finder, Inc publications have compensated Value Finder, Inc. for public relations and shareholder relations services in the last 12 months with= payment in cash, stock, and options which, at the time of engagement was not valued at more than $50,000: Focal Corporation, K & V Equities, Inc. In addition, Value Finder Inc, the publisher of this newsletter and its officers, employees, and consultants are believed to own (through share purchases on the open market or via private placement or direct public offerings) no more than 300,000 shares of Focal Corporation, mPhase Technologies, Inc.= We encourage our readers to invest carefully and read the information available at the web sites of the Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC") at http://www.sec.gov/ and the National Association of Securities Dealers ("NASD") at http://www.nasd.com/. Readers can review all public filings by companies at the SEC's EDGAR page. The NASD has published information on how to invest carefully at its web site. Permission to use, copy and distribute the materials contained in these web pages without= fee is granted, provided that our copyright notice appears in all copies and that our name not be used in publicity pertaining to distribution of the information without our specific written consent. Here, at Value Finder, Inc., the Internet is our passion. We work hard covering the Internet industry on a minute-to-minute basis so you don't have to. We love to live, eat, breath, and sleep Internet 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year (366 in Leap Year) so if you ever have any questions about anything listed on this publication, send us an e-mail or write to us via snail mail and we will get back to= you.

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    From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 7 20:04:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA29411 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA28078 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 19:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA15403; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:54:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15339 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:54:03 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (8074) by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dIJa004194 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 19:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5b9d6c1a.2464d6ef@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 19:53:19 EDT Subject: Re: Shameless Plug: To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 255 << What's a chicken tractor? >> Thanks for asking Garth, The lead article of the May issue of "Growing For Market" is about chicken tractors for layers. Joel Salatin has written a book about chicken tractors for broilers. A fellow in Pennsylvania has made a chicken tractor that the chickens move to greener pastures themselves. Basically, using chicken tractors with produce growing operations creates a multiply symbiotic relationship between livestock and crops that is helpful in small growing areas. Call (800) 307 8949 to subscribe to "Growing for Market". It is a must read for small and medium size growers. Joel Salatin's book can be purchased through Acres USA (800) 355-5313 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 7 22:23:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00902 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA02643 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA21672; Fri, 7 May 1999 21:15:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21603 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 21:15:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA09375; Fri, 7 May 1999 21:14:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-154.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.154) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009363; Fri May 7 21:14:08 1999 Message-ID: <010501be98f8$2798f6c0$7fff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: chicken tractor Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 22:11:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 256 As I understand it "tractor" is used because the chickens "work" ie eating bugs. Pictures a floorless large cage, the chickens are contained but are eating whats on the ground. It keeps them safe, and your veg. safe, yet they get to enjoy the grass etc. We are getting a couple of sheep in a couple of weeks. Due to coyote problem the gals will have to stay close. We are considering some sort of portable pen arrangement. I am already looking around the place at spots to place them so they can "mow" :) Beth ><< What's a chicken tractor? >> >Thanks for asking Garth, > >The lead article of the May issue of "Growing For Market" is about chicken >tractors for layers. Joel Salatin has written a book about chicken tractors >for broilers. A fellow in Pennsylvania has made a chicken tractor that the >chickens move to greener pastures themselves. Basically, using chicken >tractors with produce growing operations creates a multiply symbiotic >relationship between livestock and crops that is helpful in small growing >areas. > >Call (800) 307 8949 to subscribe to "Growing for Market". It is a must read >for small and medium size growers. Joel Salatin's book can be purchased >through Acres USA (800) 355-5313 > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 7 23:00:53 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01255 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 23:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA13098 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA23506; Fri, 7 May 1999 21:53:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.thestreet.com ([208.241.190.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23451 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 21:52:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jherr ([207.38.252.50]) by smtp.thestreet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58593U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id com; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:39:24 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990507194618.00c2479c@mail.thestreet.com> X-Sender: Jherr@mail.thestreet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 19:46:29 +0000 To: "Dan Hook" , , From: Jeff Herr Subject: Re: chicken tractor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 257 Definitely interested in more information about chicken tractors. We plan on rolling out a few this year, to work back pests and post-harvest debris. The one thing that puzzles me about the concept is this: If there is no floor, how do you move the tractor around the field and avoid catching toes, feet and legs under the tractor as it gets dragged to a new spot? Does anyone know of a book with good drawings and information about capacity, food/water containers, etc.? The difference between using layers versus meat birds? And somewhat related, what species of ducks or geese are best for in-row pest control? Looking for a breed that won't damage crops but will eat beetles, slugs, etc. if allowed to free range. Thanks in advance for any leads or information. -- Jeff The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA At 10:11 PM 5/7/99 -0400, Dan Hook wrote: >As I understand it "tractor" is used because the chickens "work" ie eating >bugs. Pictures a floorless large cage, the chickens are contained but are >eating whats on the ground. It keeps them safe, and your veg. safe, yet >they get to enjoy the grass etc. We are getting a couple of sheep in a >couple of weeks. Due to coyote problem the gals will have to stay close. >We are considering some sort of portable pen arrangement. I am already >looking around the place at spots to place them so they can "mow" :) Beth > > >><< What's a chicken tractor? >> >>Thanks for asking Garth, >> >>The lead article of the May issue of "Growing For Market" is about chicken >>tractors for layers. Joel Salatin has written a book about chicken >tractors >>for broilers. A fellow in Pennsylvania has made a chicken tractor that the >>chickens move to greener pastures themselves. Basically, using chicken >>tractors with produce growing operations creates a multiply symbiotic >>relationship between livestock and crops that is helpful in small growing >>areas. >> >>Call (800) 307 8949 to subscribe to "Growing for Market". It is a must >read >>for small and medium size growers. Joel Salatin's book can be purchased >>through Acres USA (800) 355-5313 >> >> > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 8 07:36:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA05335 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA00918 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA08522; Sat, 8 May 1999 06:27:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08469 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 06:27:14 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (576) by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dWVTa06455 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c4f744a.2465794f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 07:26:07 EDT Subject: Re: chicken tractor To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 258 I've found that hog or cattle panels work very well as livestock "tractors" and portable lawn mowers. Garden twine or some of that spare baling twine (where did THAT stuff come from, I've been buying wired bales for the past three years) can be used to macrame a net in the lower sections of a cattle panel so that kids and lambs don't go roaming, and tarps or wire or even additional panels can be placed over the top, depending on what you want to keep in. I have alpine goats, great climbers and jumpers, but they're usually happy to stay put in a 16x16 "corral". For chickens and geese I cut the panels and "work" them as 8x8 or 8x4 tractors. They're especially handy for preparing new seedbeds on my 4x50 raised beds. First I plant a "chicken crop" of millet and buckwheat, which also happens to suppress weeds. Then on goes the 4x8 chicken tractor with six birds, a waterer hanging from the roof, a toss of corn, and a bamboo screen so they have access to shade. The girls seem to appreciate their vacation from my two horny-toad roosters. The tractor gets moved every day or two, and within a few days the whole bed is ready to be direct-seeded. The six workers go back to the open pasture for another vacation when the bed is done, and if I'm starting another bed I just catch another six (different) workers. This way I don't have to be too concerned about providing full nutrition, mineral supplements, etc.; if anything is lacking in the confined area for 5-7 days it's doubtful that any permanent damage will be done. In the pasture and coop areas they have free-choice minerals, crushed oyster shell, dusting areas with diatomaceous earth, specially-seeded herb patches, and even a little pond for water-bathing. My chickens would smile if they only had lips. I like using the panels because they can be covered easily with screens, sheets, tarps, even chicken wire "skirts" so that new chicks can't make a jailbreak or plastic "skirts" to block winds but let sunlight through. It's easy to insert a pole perch at different levels and lash it in place. The activity inside the tractor keeps my livestock guardian dog entertained for hours at a time and he doesn't have to work so hard at keeping track of the pesky things. Hog and cattle panels sell around here for $17.99 on regular price, and just about every other month can be found on special sale for $11.99 each in 16-foot sections. Cattle panels have larger openings but are 48" high, hog panels keep small animals in better but are only 36" high. Like everything else on the farm, corrals can be moved by one person but for some strange reason it's four times easier to do it with two people. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 8 07:42:02 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA05365 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA01877 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA08713; Sat, 8 May 1999 06:30:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08673 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 06:30:08 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (576) by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dKFYa07564 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <67989290.246579eb@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 07:28:43 EDT Subject: Re: chicken tractor To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 259 In a message dated 5/7/99 10:53:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jherr@thestreet.com writes: << what species of ducks or geese are best for in-row pest control? Looking for a breed that won't damage crops but will eat beetles, slugs, etc. if allowed to free range. >> Good luck. What they don't rip up and eat, they crush flat with their big clumsy flat feet. I like ducks and will raise Muscovies again, but never again will they free range. My garden and my front porch (don't ask) will never recover 100% from their forays. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 8 13:55:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08421 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 13:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21131 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 13:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22293; Sat, 8 May 1999 12:43:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22194 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 12:42:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 574 invoked from network); 8 May 1999 17:42:00 -0000 Received: from a48-02-46.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.110) (216.26.11.110) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 8 May 1999 17:42:00 -0000 Message-ID: <37347948.6173@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 10:50:04 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DGreen47@aol.com CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: chicken tractor References: <67989290.246579eb@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 260 We rotate ducks (2-3 dozen) and chickens (a few) free-range through beds between crops. Scheduling can be fun - we grow and deliver to 75 households 50 weeks a year. Our main problem is slugs (Oregon's state bird), but with roving ducks the devastating problem drops to a simple irritant. Our duck flock is mixed Indian Runner and Welsh Harlequin. Great grazers, good layers, and we get enough eggs to pay for supplemental feed - the eggs sell wholesale to 2 local stores at $2.40 a dozen. We are the only duck egg suppliers in the area and can't supply the two stores that want to carry them. Duck eggs can often be eaten by people who can't eat chicken eggs - the proteins are different. We do enclose the birds at night to protect them from skunks, possoms, racoons and coyotes. The structure is a simple metal roofed post building with chicken wires sides and floor. We keep the floor covered with straw. Then the old straw (with added bird manure) is used for mulch in the orchard, helping to complete the carbon cycle. A good source of information and day-old as well as grown birds (geese and ducks) is Holderreads' Waterfowl Farm & Preservation Center, P.O. Box 492, Corvallis, Oregon 97339, (541) 929-5338. Write them for a caralog. This is a great source for hearty heirloom breeds and practical information. Dave Holderread has written two very good books: "The Book of Geese - A complete guide to raising the home flock" and "Raising the home duck flock". We highly recommend them both. You might also find these books interesting and useful: "Ducks and Geese in your backyard - A beginner's guide" by Rick & Gail Luttman and (as others have mentioned) Chicken Tractor - The gardener's Guide to Happy Hens and Healthy Soil" by Andy Lee Good growing! Will CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust Starting some time next week, see our web page at wwww.osalt.org Look it over and let us know web sites you would like to see linked to at "other sites of interest" From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 8 14:24:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08699 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 14:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28743 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 14:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA23388; Sat, 8 May 1999 13:08:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA23340 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 13:08:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 7358 invoked from network); 8 May 1999 18:08:11 -0000 Received: from a48-02-46.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.110) (216.26.11.110) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 8 May 1999 18:08:11 -0000 Message-ID: <37347F6C.5833@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 11:16:18 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csa@mariquita.com CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: missed pickups References: <3732AF13.2537@mariquita.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 261 We gave up on on-farm pickup last year. Missed pickups was only part of the reason. We are located halfway between Portland and Salem in Oregon. We are about 30-45 minutes from either, depending on where in those cities you start. Last year we expanded our season to all year instead of June to October, which is what most of the other CSAs in the Portland Metro area do. We balanced the wear and tear on our driveway (particularly in the winter - we get 45-65 inches of rain here, most between September and May), the staff time to set up and handle pick-up, the hassles from those who "will be just a few minutes late" and show up two hours later, and those who "just this once" want to pick up their share two days late, and pick-up becomes major management hassle. I have always been the one to insist that we encourage people to come to the farm. I was finally pursuaded that delivery makes more sense. From a time standpoint it's easier - it takes 2 six-hour days to deliver to the doors of our 75 Harvest Shareholders in our GMC van (with rear air conditioning), it takes less time to fill 75 boxes than to set up and sign the 15-20 different itemas we have each week. From an ecological stndpoint it's sound - 1 vehicle driving about 250 miles a week instead of 60-70 vehicles travelling 40-50 miles each. And the wear and tear on our van is much cheaper than the wear and tear on our driveway (1,000 feet long, all gravel - not to mention repairing the soft, muddy shoulders people insist on getting stuck in trying to pass each other), and our walk in cooler. I think it was a very good change for us. Harvest Shareholders seem happy with it, too. Some words of caution: we went to front door delivery instead of drop-off points because setting up drop-off points is time consuming and CSAs around here have convinced us it is almost as munc hassle at on-farm pick-up. We have much more control this way, and are dealing directly with each household. We have, however, created a new problem: some people seem incapable of remembering to set out their empty boxes for pick-up on the next delivery. We use large Rubbermaid boxes with snap on lids - they are easy to keep clean and, once chilled (hence the air condition van), keep food very cool and fresh until brought inside up by Harvest Shareholder who work during the day. We do have weekly (Saturday) volunteer work days on the farm which draw a number of people, as well as two celebrations annually - one in June, one in September. Hope this information gives food for thought, Will CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 8 14:58:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09430 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 14:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06114 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 14:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA24853; Sat, 8 May 1999 13:49:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.montana.com (paw.montana.com [199.2.139.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24798 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 13:49:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from john (mso1-17.montana.com [208.4.224.17]) by mail.montana.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25453; Sat, 8 May 1999 12:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199905081850.MAA25453@mail.montana.com> X-Sender: fletcher@mail.montana.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 12:48:26 -0600 To: osalt@teleport.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org From: John Fletcher Subject: Will on missed pickups In-Reply-To: <37347F6C.5833@teleport.com> References: <3732AF13.2537@mariquita.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 262 That was an excellent analysis of the missed-pickup issue, Will. Thanks for sharing it (and your resolution of the problem) so fully. John Fletcher PO Box 8381 Missoula, MT 59807 (406)721-4269 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 8 17:52:02 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA11001 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 17:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA22653 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 17:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA01718; Sat, 8 May 1999 16:42:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01671 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 16:42:25 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (576) by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id lLMRa10989; Sat, 8 May 1999 17:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 17:40:40 EDT Subject: Re: Shameless Plug: To: igg@igg.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 263 << Hey! Do you work 'with' Growing for Market?>> Aaah gee Allan, I write articles about my more positive experiences in learning how to grow produce on small acreage. Growing for Market (GFM) publishes some of them because it serves their readership. The GFM publication is one of several that have helped me a lot as a small grower. Later this summer, they will run an article about composting and compost teas that I wrote. So, I guess I do work with GFM. I like working with organizations rather than for them. I hope this helps.... Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 8 21:07:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13215 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 21:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA06414 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 20:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA09162; Sat, 8 May 1999 19:58:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.59.211]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09083 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 19:57:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 708661617 (DYTNB104-07.splitrock.net [209.156.66.99]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA54326; Sat, 8 May 1999 20:57:08 -0400 Message-Id: <199905090057.UAA54326@pimout3-int.prodigy.net> Reply-To: From: "Vincent J McKelvey" To: , Subject: Re: Flea Beetles Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 20:42:48 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 264 forgive the ignorance, but what's tanglefoot?? and garlic barrier? thanks for the help noreen willhelm spring run farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 00:14:49 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA14883 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 00:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18484 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 00:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA16312; Sat, 8 May 1999 23:05:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16268 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 23:05:23 -0500 (CDT) From: MNdeadhead@aol.com Received: from MNdeadhead@aol.com (4422) by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dJKNa13996; Sun, 9 May 1999 00:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8dca82a2.24666313@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 00:03:31 EDT Subject: Re: missed pickups To: DGreen47@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 76 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 265 After reading all the responses to missed pickups, I think Dori's answer is the best for all involved. It puts the burden on the consumer, which is where it should be - hey, if we weren't part of a CSA, we'd have the responsibility to go to the co-op or grocery to purchase our goods. i am a site host in St. Paul, MN. At the beginning of each season, I am provided a phone list of folks who pick up at my house. As a courtesy, I do call members the following day who have not picked up their shares (but this is my doing and not expected from my farm). Sometimes they call back and are grateful - they forgot, their car broke down, whatever, and I keep it refrigerated til they can come. but if i get no response (90% of the time), i donate the share to friends or neighbors. I do not believe the burden for phone calls, make-ups, or any other special arrangements should be the responsibility of the farmers. y'all have more than enough work to do to concern yourselves with this. i doubt many members would expect it, and know they certainly wouldn't from a grocer! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 10:31:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA21973 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28532 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02157; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:20:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02033 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:18:32 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (8051) by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dINHa10991 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 10:17:39 EDT Subject: Re: missed pickups To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 266 In a message dated 5/9/99 12:03:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MNdeadhead writes: << Dori's answer is the best for all involved >> Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I feel moved to point out that with CSA the one constant seems to be that there is never just one "best answer". I'm investigating alliances with the few remaining "neighborhood" stores, to provide store pickups with my laundry baskets of produce residing in their cool rooms. It would provide a draw away from the mega-stores and would sure increase convenience for my CSA members! I'd buy laundry baskets at the Dollar Store because they're so obviously different from any other containers in the store. And when (sigh, not if) CSA members lose them, well, they only cost $1. If the neighborhood store managers aren't smart enough to notice the advantages of such an alliance (including the favorable publicity), maybe the mega-store managers will be. My philosophical heart is with the little guys -- but let's face it, if what I'm doing here ain't economically sustainable then I shouldn't call it "sustainable agriculture". Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable LIving Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 10:35:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA21995 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29340 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02497; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:26:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02430 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:26:01 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (8051) by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dHXQa27691 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <288e2723.2466f499@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 10:24:25 EDT Subject: The Voice of Experience To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 267 Permanent Markers ain't. At least not on white plastic pot-stickers put outside and hosed down or rained on. I now have about 50 flats of Mystery Plants. Several are obviously Love Lies Bleeding, not a problem. The rest are one of a guess of about 20 different varieties. Tomato, yup, easy. Which one of the ten varieties? Ummm....guess we'll find out when we get tomatoes. >From here on, I'm number-coding all flats with acrylic paint and cross-referencing them on the computer. Most of these seedlings were for my own use. I know what's been planted and eventually I'll figure it out and get the final beds properly marked before harvest. So as disasters go, may they all be as minor as this one! The pen manufacturer is going to get one heck of a snotty letter, though. Dori Green The Royally Annoyed From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 11:05:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22279 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07505 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03540; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:56:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03492 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:56:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA20292 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:55:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-54.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.54) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020274; Sun May 9 09:55:00 1999 Message-ID: <007001be9a2b$a0a52000$36fa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Farm celebrations and pumkins Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 10:52:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 268 Will wrote: >> have weekly (Saturday) volunteer work days on the farm which draw >a number of people, as well as two celebrations annually - one in June, >one in September. > >Hope this information gives food for thought, > >Will >CSA at Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust > >We have, due to our ad. approx. 31 members! Our upper point was supposed to be 30, however we keep getting a few deposits trickling in from people who took flyers "to think about it". I painfully had to tell two very nice ladies that they'd have to be on the waiting list(I always thought it would be fun to have a waiting list but its hard especially when the people are so nice "I know we called late, good luck") Anyway we now have enough people to plan a celebration, how do you folks work it? We have an idea for the fall, we are planting our pumpkins way down the field and we are going to hay ride down to get them (the horse are finally working). If the weather cooperates my husband estimates we could have 2,000 pumpkins! We were thinking of another ad "Green Hill Farm Pumpkins Hay Ride", but with the success of the above ad I'm afraid the entire state will show up, then we'd annoy people not please them. Maybe appointment only hay ride etc. Oh well as I said before and exciting and scary time here at Green Hill Farm. We planted potatoes yesterday had some help from a couple what a difference form last year it went much quicker. These were volunteers, they want to learn, they hope to someday buy a farm and have a garden. Thank-you Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 11:08:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22298 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08413 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03730; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:59:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03687 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:59:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA20559; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:58:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-54.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.54) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020550; Sun May 9 09:58:27 1999 Message-ID: <007b01be9a2c$1c4b7ba0$36fa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: The Voice of Experience Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 10:56:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 269 Just a chuckle, but think of it this way. In some seed catalogs they sell mixtures, so you now have a flower mixture, and tomato mixture. Beth -----Original Message----- From: DGreen47@aol.com To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 10:26 AM Subject: The Voice of Experience >Permanent Markers ain't. At least not on white plastic pot-stickers put >outside and hosed down or rained on. > >I now have about 50 flats of Mystery Plants. Several are obviously Love Lies >Bleeding, not a problem. The rest are one of a guess of about 20 different >varieties. Tomato, yup, easy. Which one of the ten varieties? >Ummm....guess we'll find out when we get tomatoes. > >>From here on, I'm number-coding all flats with acrylic paint and >cross-referencing them on the computer. > >Most of these seedlings were for my own use. I know what's been planted and >eventually I'll figure it out and get the final beds properly marked before >harvest. > >So as disasters go, may they all be as minor as this one! > >The pen manufacturer is going to get one heck of a snotty letter, though. > >Dori Green The Royally Annoyed > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 11:43:27 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22525 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18631 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:35:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05219; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:34:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailhost.nemaine.com (nemaine.com [205.139.6.148]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05168 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:33:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nemaine.com [206.97.116.54] by mailhost.nemaine.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.03) id A90AB5D00C0; Sun, 09 May 1999 11:26:02 EST Message-ID: <3735AB9B.80716DDD@nemaine.com> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 11:36:59 -0400 From: Steve & Robin Follette Organization: Thyme For Ewe Farm X-Sender: "Steve & Robin Follette" <@nemaine.com> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA Subject: Baskets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 270 Watson Trading Company in Michigan has light weight baskets that are inexpensive. No minimum order, wholesale prices. 800-942-5371 Robin-- Thyme For Ewe Farm Pastured pork and poultry http://www.nemaine.com/organic From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 13:57:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23589 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 13:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14652 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 13:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10469; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:48:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10397 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:47:21 -0500 (CDT) From: SSmedley@aol.com Received: from SSmedley@aol.com (14424) by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dLBYa26070 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 13:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <82e7461.246723dc@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 13:46:04 EDT Subject: Corn Maze To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 271 Hello, I hope this is going to the list. I purchased a new computer and didn't get all my addresses switched... Oh well time will tell. My husband and I are getting ready to plant a Corn Maze for our pumpkin patch this fall. Has anyone here ever done this? What are the pitfalls and what suggestions do you have? We are going to do a basic one for young children then a complicated one for teens and adults. Also since I have your attention, does anyone have a wholesale source for food dehydrators that we could sell through our farm stand? Thank you in advance..... Sharon From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 18:21:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26822 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:21:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA00284 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21240; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:07:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21183 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:06:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ringo.excite.com ([199.172.152.145]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990509220632.FFLM14444.gigi@ringo.excite.com> for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 15:06:32 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Farm celebrations and pumkins Message-Id: <926287558.25466.993@excite.com> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 15:05:58 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.137 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 272 On Sun, 9 May 1999 10:52:55 -0400, Dan Hook wrote: > Will wrote: > >> have weekly (Saturday) volunteer work days on the farm which draw > >a number of people, as well as two celebrations annually - one in June, > >one in September. > > > >Hope this information gives food for thought, > > > >Will > >CSA at Natural Harvest Farm > >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust > > > >We have, due to our ad. approx. 31 members! Our upper point was supposed to > be 30, however we keep getting a few deposits trickling in from people who > took flyers "to think about it". I painfully had to tell two very nice > ladies that they'd have to be on the waiting list(I always thought it would > be fun to have a waiting list but its hard especially when the people are so > nice "I know we called late, good luck") Anyway we now have enough people to > plan a celebration, how do you folks work it? We have an idea for the fall, > we are planting our pumpkins way down the field and we are going to hay ride > down to get them (the horse are finally working). If the weather cooperates > my husband estimates we could have 2,000 pumpkins! We were thinking of > another ad "Green Hill Farm Pumpkins Hay Ride", but with the success of the > above ad I'm afraid the entire state will show up, then we'd annoy people > not please them. Maybe appointment only hay ride etc. Oh well as I said > before and exciting and scary time here at Green Hill Farm. We planted > potatoes yesterday had some help from a couple what a difference form last > year it went much quicker. These were volunteers, they want to learn, they > hope to someday buy a farm and have a garden. Thank-you Beth > We are planning monthly potlucks this season starting the 21st of this month. I printed out a calendar of things that will be happening and kind of open to the public (I am selective as to who gets a calander) In september were are having a farm tour that will be very open to the public. It will consist of a walking tour of the gardens, compost areas and poultry pens and than a pot luck dinner to follow and if folks want to hang out we will have a bonfire and look at the stars. the tour is a pretty comprehensive one where we explain what is planted, why we planted and techniques we use. We will also have a board with pictures of CSA members having big fun in the gardens and a sheet for folks to give us their name and address/email/phone. This is our first time doing this for more than 10 people and doing some advertising etc. We will have help from our local OEFFA Chapter in getting the word out and hopefully we can get some CSA members to help us put a bit of spit and polish on the place (mowing,actually haying the lawn with the sickle bar, putting signs on the plots to ID them etc) So far we have had lots of quality CSA help and deliveries don't start for another month. We got a great ,if small, group of members. Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 18:46:49 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA27134 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:46:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06167 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22485; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:37:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22442 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:37:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 20852 invoked from network); 9 May 1999 22:37:18 -0000 Received: from a48-01-42.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.42) (216.26.11.42) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 9 May 1999 22:37:18 -0000 Message-ID: <37361000.4C89@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 15:45:24 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FranksFarm@aol.com CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: CSA References: <815c6fd2.24662f8d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 273 FranksFarm@aol.com wrote: "hello Will, Good luck with your CSA. Sounds like just the size for me...75 -100 shareholders at max ...unless I can get others to join or coop. We just purchased a farm in south central Kentucky. And we are considering a start up CSA next season for perhaps 20 shares until I know more about the soil, climate, and what I can grow well etc. Love to hear more about your equipment...seeding, transplanting etc. Do you have a greenhouse? Would you perhaps have a sample production schedule just to give me an idea of variety, and quantities planted. Out your way you probably have a long season. Any tips, advice, and encoragement would be appreciated.(BG) Best wishes. Frank" Frank (and all), Conratulations on getting land! CSA at Natural Harvest Farm is actually a research project, part of Oregon Sustainable Agricluture Land Trust (OSALT) efforts to develop and demonstrate viable, sustainable methods of producing and distributing food, fiber and building materials. We started CSA here in 1991. 75 households seems to be the right size for a sustainable operation. Big enough so one person getting sick doesn't force us all to work 20 hour days, small enough so we don't waste a lot of time and energy on administration. Since the beginning (we were the 2nd CSA in the Portland metro area) we have encouraged sharing and cooperation among CSAs, both here and elsewhere. I was introduced to CSA at a talk given by Trauger Groh. I later met Robyn VanEn, and was on the Board of CSANA. Although we only met once face to face, we talked on the phone a number of times. I miss Robyn - she was all those wonderful things you hear said about inspired leaders, and a friend. The CSA growers around here get together a couple of times a year to share ideas and solutions. We also get together to do an annual "tomato turn-on" each year at the Portland Farmers Market, where we provide 50-100 varieties of tomatoes for people to sample. Over the years we have seen a number of CSAs come and go. Some growers were too inexperienced. Many had no business skills and didn't want to learn them. Others were simply overwhelmed by the amount of hard work involved in growing food week in and week out. One lost his land - he was renting - but has restarted near Eugene (about 100 miles south of here in another market). There are about a dozen active CSAs around here this year (out of about two dozen who have started up over the last 8 years). We are larger than most but smaller than two (who have recently expanded). I think we will find they will get smaller next year, We have found that larger than about 75 is too large - the disadvantages outweigh the benefits. As for equipment - we do almost everything with hand tools. It isn't the initial cost of the equipment - it's the maintenance. Maintaining power equipment is costly, time consuming and always come as an emergency at a time when you need to be doing something else. We do have a greenhouse. 30' by 48', double plastic cover with air blown in between. Passive solar heating (66 55-gallon food grade plastic barrels used as work benches). 4' florescent light fixtures adjustable for height used with seedlings. We also use a little over half of the floor space for winter growing. We are expermenting with a "lettuce tube" - a single wall plastic covered greenhouse 20' by 144'. This covers 8 of our standard raised beds (3'4" by 66') with some work space. We're using it to keep the inside temperature above freezing during the winter so we can keep delivering greens all year long. So far, so good. It gives us about 3-5 degrees above outside temperatures, which is good enough here to avoid freezing the leaves. Our season is supposedly 210 days a year. Some years that's true. 1998-1999 was a disaster: warmest May in history followed by the wettest June (and very cool) followed by a typically hot July. Everything bolted. We didn't recover until late September. Then we had 5 days in December where it never got above 29 degrees. Not bad for New England, but unheard of here. We lost all our root crops. Put a heck of a dent in our winter deliveries. It was a great opportunity to educate our Harvest Shareholders about the vagaries of weather and it's influence on crop production. As for our crops/planting schedule: last season we grow 401 varieties of veggies, fruits, grapes, berries and herbs. Most were annuals, about 100 varieties are perennials. We try to avoid hybrids, preferring locally grown heirlooms and open pollinted varieties. We save seed for about 15% of what we grow, and that is expanding. As part of OSALT research we are developing a handbook and computer program for running a small CSA. I've been working on the program for about 6 years. 1998-99 was the first year we used it in operations and this year (1999-2000) it is our guide for seed buying, planting, transplanting, bed allocation, harvesting etc. When the package is done it will be available to all interested parties through OSALT. For more information see our web site at www.osalt.org (it should be up next week). By best advice is this, spend your life doing what gives you joy. If that's working the soil and feeding people, CSA is a great way to do it. Pay attention - learn to look and see at the same time. Learn to listen and hear at the same time. Observe Nature - she's been doing this just fine for millions of years. When you can't figure it out, when it doesn't make sense, try to see what nature does when humans don't get in the way, and emulate that. Good growing, Will From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 18:58:43 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA27376 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09188 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA23068; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:49:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA23017 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:49:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 23561 invoked from network); 9 May 1999 22:49:25 -0000 Received: from a48-01-42.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.42) (216.26.11.42) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 9 May 1999 22:49:25 -0000 Message-ID: <373612D7.5C1B@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 15:57:32 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BRateaver@aol.com CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: missed pickups References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 274 BRateaver@aol.com wrote: > > don't you have trouble with people stealing such a good box left on a doorstep Not so far. In the last year we have not lost a single box, either when delivering or when set out empty for us to pick up. We've even had people go out of town and forget to tell us and when we make the next delivery a week later the box (with the food in it) is still there. And we do deliver to ALL kinds of neighborhoods. Will CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 19:09:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27529 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 19:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA12467 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 19:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23546; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:00:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA23376 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:58:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 25404 invoked from network); 9 May 1999 22:58:03 -0000 Received: from a48-01-42.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.42) (216.26.11.42) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 9 May 1999 22:58:03 -0000 Message-ID: <373614DD.3E3F@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 16:06:11 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DGreen47@aol.com CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: The Voice of Experience References: <288e2723.2466f499@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 275 DGreen47@aol.com wrote: "Permanent Markers ain't. At least not on white plastic pot-stickers put outside and hosed down or rained on. ..... Dori Green The Royally Annoyed" We use Sanford "Sharpie" markers on standard plastic stickers and on used plastic mini blinds (free at your neighborhood "window treatments" store.) The markings last 2-3 years in our climate, which is lots of rain, lots of sun, but mild temperates in the winter. We amkr them with numbers, and we color code them. (red for solanums, green for greens, etc.) We track the markers by number in our planting records. Will CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 19:26:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27723 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 19:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16026 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 19:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA24533; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:17:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA24463 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:16:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 29311 invoked from network); 9 May 1999 23:16:44 -0000 Received: from a48-01-42.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.42) (216.26.11.42) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 9 May 1999 23:16:44 -0000 Message-ID: <3736193E.1479@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 16:24:53 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Hook CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Farm celebrations and pumkins References: <007001be9a2b$a0a52000$36fa6ed1@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 276 Beth wrote: "... Anyway we now have enough people to plan a celebration, how do you folks work it? We have an idea for the fall, we are planting our pumpkins way down the field and we are going to hay ride down to get them (the horse are finally working). If the weather cooperates my husband estimates we could have 2,000 pumpkins! We were thinking of another ad "Green Hill Farm Pumpkins Hay Ride", but with the success of the above ad I'm afraid the entire state will show up, then we'd annoy people not please them. Maybe appointment only hay ride etc...." Normally the farm is not open to drop-ins, but we teach a lot of gardening and farming classes through the local community school, Master Gardeners, etc, and are constantly being asked when people can "come by and see the farm." We explain that it is a year-around working farm and we want people to be able to ask questions and talk with the growers when they come to the farm, so we restrict public visits to one day in the spring and one day in the fall. Of course, our Harvest Shareholders are welcome to drop in and help us any Saturday between mid-June and mid-September - these are our optional Harvest Shareholder work days. We have special, specific projects for these days. Harvest Shareholders are encouraged to bring the entire family (we always have something for little kids and middle kids to do as well) and any friends they wish to invite. We usually end the work time with teas and coffes and some king of snack, usually veggies from the farm. Our June day is primarily a farm tour day. We are there to answer questions. We set up a self-guided tour (people never manage to show up at a scheduled time, so we gave up on guided tours.) We have the crew there (3-5 people), and we have a lot of literature about the farm, CSA at the farm, and OSALT (the trust). Our September day is our big celebration: pot luck dinner, cider pressing, games for children and adults and, starting at dusk, story telling around a bonfire. A word of encouragement: make sure you encourage kids to tell their stories - little kids through teenagers. It may be the greatest source of wisdom you will be in contact with all year! And there are few things in life as satisfying as the amazement in parents' eyes when they hear their children talk of important things in amazing ways. Parents often remark later that they see their kids with new respect. Will CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 19:59:11 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA28031 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 19:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA22905 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 19:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA26119; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:48:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA25808 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:43:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 10120 invoked from network); 9 May 1999 23:43:13 -0000 Received: from a48-01-41.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.41) (216.26.11.41) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 9 May 1999 23:43:13 -0000 Message-ID: <37361F73.5211@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 16:51:17 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Job opening Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 277 Do you know of anyone interested in working with us on our CSA? We are particularly looking for someone with CSA experience who is interested in working toward partnership or eventual management of our CSA operation. We have a 20-acre certified organic farm upon which we grow about 4 acres of vegetables, fruits and herbs. We are located in the North Willamette Valley, one of the most fertile agricultural valleys in the world. We are near Canby, about half way between Portland and Salem, Oregon. We are not looking for an intern, but an employee who can take a responsible role in an ongoing 75-household year-around CSA. We are not able to offer housing, and it would be best if this person had their own car. Will & Sue CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun May 9 20:01:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28077 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 20:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA23501 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 19:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA26398; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:53:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26006 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:47:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA27845 for csa-l@prairienet.org; Sun, 9 May 1999 19:47:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199905092347.TAA27845@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: drip irrigation To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 19:47:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 278 friends - Just turned on the water to our newly installed drip system in our 3 acre vegetable patch. I have it divided by valves into three zones. I'd like to be able to water even smaller areas within each zone, but I already have the tee-tape down and hooked up, so my question is this: anyone out there know how to "shut off" the individual tee tape lines? Looks to me like I could just crimp the lines somehow, but I fear I may damage the lines. Anybody? thanks much, Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon May 10 00:49:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02072 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02535 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA09336; Sun, 9 May 1999 23:41:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from peak.org (denisont@PEAK.ORG [198.68.22.17]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09266 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 23:40:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (denisont@localhost) by peak.org (8.8.5/8.6.7) with SMTP id VAA06796; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 21:41:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Denison X-Sender: denisont@kira To: Kevin Smyth cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: drip irrigation In-Reply-To: <199905092347.TAA27845@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 279 We are using layflat headers, if we want to shut off a block of lines, we disconect the header and replace it with a short piece of layflat with an end plug. To shut off one or a few tee tape lines, we disconect the tape from the header and replace it with a short piece of tee tape with the end plugged. If you do this very many times, the end of the tee tape gets messed up, but it works well where you may have some crop that needs no more water which is on the same header as a crop you are still watering. The layflat can be dis/reconnected many times quite easily. Tom On Sun, 9 May 1999, Kevin Smyth wrote: > friends - Just turned on the water to our newly installed drip system in > our 3 acre vegetable patch. I have it divided by valves into three zones. > I'd like to be able to water even smaller areas within each zone, but I > already have the tee-tape down and hooked up, so my question is this: > anyone out there know how to "shut off" the individual tee tape lines? > Looks to me like I could just crimp the lines somehow, but I fear I may > damage the lines. Anybody? > > thanks much, > Kevin Smyth > ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon May 10 12:05:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA10719 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00146 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07061; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:52:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06984 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:52:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.58] (pm3shep1-163-58.intrepid.net [209.190.163.58]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23264 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:52:09 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199905092347.TAA27845@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:49:45 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: drip irrigation Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 280 I'm coming into irrigation tape through a roll I found in the shed, so, I've got some questions that are probably pretty basic. 1. Do I need to use a pressure regulator with drip tape? 2. I noticed that Wetzel has NO irrigation tape listed in last year's catalog: is this something I can only get parts for mail order or do some of the 'gardening' chains now retail irrigation tape? 3. AND, what's a good mail order supplier of this system? Thanks! >We are using layflat headers, if we want to shut off a block of lines, we >disconect the header and replace it with a short piece of layflat with an >end plug. To shut off one or a few tee tape lines, we disconect the tape >from the header and replace it with a short piece of tee tape with the end >plugged. If you do this very many times, the end of the tee tape gets >messed up, but it works well where you may have some crop that needs no >more water which is on the same header as a crop you are still watering. >The layflat can be dis/reconnected many times quite easily. Tom > >On Sun, 9 May 1999, Kevin Smyth wrote: > >> friends - Just turned on the water to our newly installed drip system in >> our 3 acre vegetable patch. I have it divided by valves into three zones. >> I'd like to be able to water even smaller areas within each zone, but I >> already have the tee-tape down and hooked up, so my question is this: >> anyone out there know how to "shut off" the individual tee tape lines? >> Looks to me like I could just crimp the lines somehow, but I fear I may >> damage the lines. Anybody? >> >> thanks much, >> Kevin Smyth >> ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu >> >> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 11 11:13:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05452 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA27852 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:05:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21913; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:05:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gwgate.lib.iastate.edu (gwgate.lib.iastate.edu [129.186.11.21]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21717 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:02:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Parks_Library-Message_Server by gwgate.lib.iastate.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:02:26 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:01:57 -0500 From: "Jeff Hall" To: DGreen47@aol.com, osalt@teleport.com Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: chicken tractor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id KAA21718 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 281 I apologize for being so far behind the curve, but I wanted to share the design idea for chicken tractors I've used. Take a cattle panel, arch it and connect to 2 12 ft 2x4s, and cover with chicken wire and tarp. Or double-wide it with 3 2x4s. I had a more typical tractor a couple years ago, but two dogs collapsed part of the roof and killed everyone. The arched design worked great last year, but this year I've had a smart young coon digging in, I've had to surround it with electric fence, and now something still goes under to get eggs (mink family?). The challenges never stop! Jeff Hall Interesting Times Permaculture Garden Elkhart Iowa From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 11 11:42:40 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06154 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07764 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA24175; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:34:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24084 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:34:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jps.net (209-142-56-150.stk.jps.net [209.142.56.150]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28571 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3737E211.EB83610C@jps.net> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:54:04 +0000 From: Richard Roth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER #32 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------95910C5B6D9CC84987479AFF" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 282 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------95910C5B6D9CC84987479AFF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry about the size of this, but I think some of you may want to sign up for this free e-mail news service. I just heard about it through a friend. It investigates what corporate agriculture : (Cargill, Monsanto, Archer Daniels Midland Co., etc.) is up to, as well as some of the resistance their conquests are facing. Viva la resistance! ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER #32 > Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 21:47:31 -0700 > From: "Albert V. Krebs" > > The > AGRIBUSINESS > EXAMINER Issue # 32 May 6, 1999 > > Monitoring Corporate Agribusiness From a Public Interest Perspective > > > A.V. Krebs > Editor\Publisher > > > Editors Note > Although there is no subscription fee for THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER, > donations will, as always, be gladly accepted. One of my subscribers > says he pays $30 a year for 12 issues of a Health letter, and my > weekly will hopefully go up to 52 so he feels it is worth at least > the cost of a monthly newsletter. I hope you agree. Checks made out > to A.V. Krebs, P.O. Box 2201, Everett, Washington 98203-0201 [NOT to > "Agribusiness Examiner"] will continue to be received with much > gratitude. > > To those readers of THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER who have already sent > donations I want to express my sincere thanks for your continued > support and interest in this venture. A reminder also to those who > might wish to receive a weekly e-mail edition of THE AGRIBUSINESS > EXAMINER, please provide your NAME and E-MAIL ADDRESS. At this time > THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER is not available in printed form. > > > IBP: > COULD THIS BE THE BEGINNING OF THE END IN DAKOTA CITY ?!? > > In a major victory for the nation's independent cattle producers, > after years of legal struggles by the plaintiffs to overcome numerous > roadblocks, U.S. District Court Senior Judge, Lyle B. Strom issued an > order April 28 certifying a national "class-action" of cattle > producers against IBP (Iowa Beef Processors) > > The original lawsuit --- Pickett vs IBP --- filed in July, 1996 by ten > cattlemen plaintiffs --- Mike Callicrate, Henry Lee Pickett, Sam > Britt, Paul Horton, Jim Bower, Pat Goggins, Johnny Smith, Stayton > Weldon, Lovel Blain, and David Smith --- as representatives of the > "class," charged that IBP violated the Packers and Stockyards Act (P&S > Act). > > "The entire cattle industry has been in an economic crisis ever since > IBP and the other big packers schemed to fatten their profits by > denying producers a fair price for their cattle, "Callicrate, a St. > Francis, Kansas feedlot owner, emphasizes. "Our lawsuit contends that > the method IBP uses is to set an unfairly low price it will pay for > cattle, and when cattlemen reject that price because they will suffer > a loss, IBP slaughters, or threatens to slaughter, cattle from its > `captive supply.'" > > "This illegal strategy," he adds, "leaves cattlemen without a buyer > for their cattle. And because finished cattle must be sold quickly > while at optimum weight, cattlemen are forced to accept that low bid, > at a loss to themselves. This abusive market power profits IBP in > lowering prices paid to cattlemen while consumes continue to pay > record high prices for beef." > > The cattlemen also allege, according to their attorney Randy Beard, > that by contracting > "captive supplies" with certain preferred feedlots, the Dakota City, > Nebraska-headquartered IBP reduces its need to participate in the cash > market. As a result, he points out, these meatpacker agreements to > take ownership of cattle weeks in advance violate the anti-competitive > provisions of the P&S Act because they are entered into with the > intent of, or having the effect of, reducing the cash market price. > > Contrary to IBP's contention that low prices are the result of supply > and demand, plaintiffs point out that IBP's profits have soared to > record levels at a time when cattle producers are going bankrupt. They > say that if IBP's defense were true, there would be no reason for them > to pursue all these anti-competitive practices, and they would not > resist eliminating them. > > The lawsuit asks that the defendant IBP cease and desist from any > further illegal activities in manipulating the price of beef cattle in > violation of the P&S Act, and for compensatory and punitive damages, > fees and expenses, and any other relief that the court deems > appropriate. Plaintiffs estimate that actual damages due cattlemen > could approach multi-billions of dollars. > > Grass-roots cattlemen's organizations, individual cattlemen, national > farm groups, National Farmers Union, and a host of others concerned > about the plight of the beef industry, submitted amicus briefs to the > court supporting the plaintiffs against IBP, and urging "class-action" > status, Callicrate said. "Even Canadian cattlemen, whose market is > also dominated by IBP, supported us," he noted. > > "At one point, the court asked Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman to > write an opinion as to whether we could pursue a private lawsuit under > the P&S Act," Callicrate added. "In an extensively researched brief, > Secretary Glickman gave us the green light to press our charges > against IBP, he said that the U.S. district court was the only forum > to pursue this claim, and allowed the court to fully consider our case > and subsequent `class-action' status." > > > EU SCIENTISTS: > U.S. BEEF GROWTH HORMONE: > "CONSIDERED AS A COMPLETE CARCINOGEN" > > In a stunning May 3 report released by the European Union's (EU) > Scientific Committee on Veterinary Measures the hormone 17 > beta-oestradiol -- one of six growth hormones in American beef -- was > characterized as being "considered as a complete carcinogen." > > "It exerts both tumor initiating and tumor promoting effects," the > report said. "In plain language, this means that even small additional > doses of residues of this hormone in meat, arising from its use as a > growth promoter in cattle, has an inherent risk of causing cancer." > > There was inadequate data to make a definitive finding on the other > five growth hormones used in U.S. beef, the scientific committee said. > But it said exposure to small levels of residues in meat and meat > products "carries risks." > > While the The European Commission immediately ruled out ending a > 10-year-old ban on hormone-treated beef, increasing the risk of > escalating the current trade war between the U.S. and the European > Union, U.S. trade and agriculture officials sharply criticized the > scientist's report. > > "The supposed new claims are nothing but misleading allegations," said > Peter Scher, America's trade negotiator on agricultural > matters. He called the report a "blatant attempt" by the EU to delay > abiding by its trade obligations. "If the EU does not lift this ban, > we will retaliate this summer," Scher told a Senate subcommittee. > > USDA Secretary Dan Glickman and U.S. Trade Representative Charlene > Barshefsky charged that the EU had issued "yet another misleading > report. It repeats the same unsubstantiated arguments that the EU has > already made before the World Trade Organization (WTO) panel of > experts, which were flatly rejected by the panel," they declared in a > joint statement. "The issue is the EU's refusal to comply with the WTO > rulings and its unwillingness to honor its international obligations." > > Answering the U.S. denials that there were any dangers to U.S. > exported beef to the EU the Union's commission slammed U.S. criticism > of the scientific report. In its statement, the commission accused the > U.S. of trying "to belittle the risk" identified by the scientists. > "The commission cannot understand why the U.S. has not reacted in a > more responsible way to the conclusive findings of the scientific > committee,especially as the scientists said children are most at risk > from the hormones." > > Some 90% of American cattle producers now feed hormones approved by > the Food and Drug Administration to cattle to make them grow faster > and bigger. In 1998 the WTO ruled that the EU ban on hormone-treated > beef was illegal and must be lifted by May 13. It said the EU's ban > was not supported by the proper risk analysis. > > After the WTO ruling, the EU ordered 17 studies on risks linked to the > use of hormones in meat, some of which were carried out in the U.S. > Sixteen of these have yet to be completed. The EU's recent scientific > committee report based its opinion on interim findings and the one > completed report. The document, which has been sent to Washington for > comments, said U.S. regulatory controls on the use of hormones in meat > are "deficient" and Canadian controls are "insufficient." > > Since 1989, the U.S. has exported only hormone-free beef to the EU > because of the ban. The U.S. industry has put the lost export sales at > $500 million annually. The Clinton administration is threatening to > impose 100% tariffs on more than $900 million worth of European > products in retaliation for the ban. > > > GMO CORN: > ADM, A.E. STALEY SAY NO! CARGILL SAYS YES! > > In a surprise move the nation's largest corn processor,Archer Daniels > Midland Co. (ADM), has announced that it will follow its cross-town > Decatur, Illinois competitor, the U.S.'s third largest corn processor > A.E. Staley Manufacturing Co., and will only accept corn varieties > approved by the European Union > > "ADM supports the position of the Corn Refiners Association and the > National Grain and Feed Association in regard to transgenic corn by > not participating in the commerce of the varieties that are not > approved by the EU," said ADM spokesperson Carla Miller. "If and when > the varieties are approved by the EU, we will participate in the > marketing of those grains." > > "The timing of the announcement couldn't come at a worse time," Doug > Wilson, president of the Illinois Corn Growers Association told Dow > Jones Newswires. "Most producers have their seed in their shed and > it's hard to make adjustments. We're in prime planting time." > > "Both of those products (Roundup Ready and Bt) are going to be planted > by a lot of producers," said Illinois Corn Growers Association > spokesman Mark Lambert. Asked if the announcements were bad news to > producers, Lambert replied, "Sure it is from the perception > standpoint. People are going to see that they're not accepting the > product and they're going to assume that it's something wrong with > it." > > Following initial conflicting press reports Cargill Inc., the worlds > largest grain trader, reassured U.S. corn growers that it will be > accepting delivery of genetically modified corn that has not yet been > approved for shipment to the European Union. > > After it was initially reported that Cargill had joined other industry > players in boycotting the genetically modified products, Linda Thrane, > with Cargill, reconfirmed that the company will be accepting delivery > of genetically modified corn, such as hybrids developed to withstand > post-emergent applications of certain chemicals like Monsanto's > Roundup. > > There are also some Bt corn varieties that aren't currently accepted > by the EU. The Bt variety is named for the naturally occurring > bacillus thurgiensis toxin that is lethal to corn borers and other > caterpillars. Genetically engineered to contain Bt, the plants kill > many pests as soon as they chew into the stalk. > > While Cargill is concerned about keeping the GMO product out of supply > pipelines that send processing byproducts to Europe, Thrane noted, > the company's grain buyers would be able to work with farmers to buy > the corn for domestic uses, including animal feed. > > Meanwhile, Monsanto Inc., which entered into a marketing "alliance" > with Cargill in 1998, announced that it plans to help U.S. farmers > market the genetically modified corn that has not been approved by the > EU. > > "We would like to eliminate any confusion that exists regarding > biotech seed varieties which are approved for export," the company > said in a letter to producers. "Following is the approval status of > genetically enhanced corn products in the industry to ensure you have > the most current and accurate information. We also want to update you > on the marketing options for our corn products which must be used or > marketed domestically in 1999." > > Monsanto's Roundup Ready corn has not been approved by the EU, but the > company said in its letter that it has identified more than 1,500 U.S. > locations "including elevators. feed mills and feed processors, that > utilize grain for domestic purposes." > > In the letter, the company said it was committed to finding domestic > uses for non-EU approved corn varieties. "Today, nearly 80% of U.S. > corn is used domestically, with 61% used for feed," the letter said. > "We are committed and will find a destination for our products not > yet approved in the EU Growers can market their grain from these corn > technologies by feeding the grain on-farm, selling the grain to > livestock producers, and selling the grain to local elevators for > domestic use." > > The EU imports up to 2.5 million metric tons of corn a year. The U.S. > grows about 30 million acres of genetically modified corn, of which > five million to six million acres aren't approved by the EU, said > Iowa-based consulting firm Pro Farmer. > > Thrane said Cargill is also backing a plan developed by the U.S. corn > industry, which includes seed manufacturers and national producer > groups. The program will educate producers about what types of > genetically modified corn aren't approved yet by the EU. > > A limited release of Roundup Ready corn was available in 1998, but > this is the first growing season where it will be widely available to > U.S. farmers. Corn processing industry officials have expressed > concern the EU will limit imports of U.S. corn gluten livestock feed > if non-approved varieties show up in shipments. The market for the > byproduct is worth about $600 million annually. > > > U.S. WANTS EU BAN ON GMOS BEFORE WTO > > Impatient and frustrated with what it sees as the European Union's > feet dragging on the authorization of imported U.S.-produced > genetically modified organism (GMO) food products, the U.S. is > currently searching for a way to put the GMO issue on the World Trade > Organization agenda at the next round of global trade talks. > > At the same time, however, the U.S. is continuing bilateral talks with > the EU to > accelerate the Commission's approval of genetically modified corn > developed by Monsanto Corp., Novartis of Switzerland, and Hoechst > Schering AgrEvo GmbH of Germany. > > Faced with the fact that it has no specific plan to raise the GMO > issue at the WTO because there are no grounds for a trade dispute > right now, unlike the cases of suspect beef growth hormones and Carl > O. Lindners banana exports to the EU - U.S. sources insist that > genetically modified crops "will have to be addressed somehow in the > next round of talks." Consequently, the U.S. is now looking for a > proper way to tackle the issue and define its position ahead of WTO > meetings in Geneva this month and in Seattle in November. > > Currently, the U.S. faces the prospect of being shut out of the EU > corn market this year because of EU delays in approving the sale of > genetically modified corn varieties grown in the U.S. At least two > gene-modified corn varieties grown in the U.S. have yet to be approved > for sale in the EU. > > The U.S. is anxious to see changes in the EU's approval procedure, > known as the 90/220 process. Under that process, scientific reviews > take years while equivalent U.S. scientific reviews take only months, > according to U.S. sources. In addition the U.S. is also frustrated > with what it calls the "effective collapse of the EU's regulatory > process for new genetically engineered plants and an incomplete and > unworkable food labeling regulation for foods containing genetically > modified corn and soybeans," according to Peter L. Scher of the > Special Trade Negotiator Office of the U.S. Trade Representative. > > U.S. officials also blame European consumers' reluctance to accept > food made with genetically modified produce on scare-mongering by > Europe's media and ineffective public relations strategies by firms > like Monsanto. > > In the "life sciences" industry and the halls of the USDA, GMO crops > are at least as safe as traditionally bred crops. "We're talking about > tens of thousands of field trials and millions of people who have > ingested these foods safely," Carl Feldbaum, president of the > Biotechnology Industry Organization (BIO) in Washington, recently told > the Washington Posts Rick Weiss. "And before people ingested the > foods, we're talking about agencies highly respected by American > citizens -- the FDA, the EPA, the Department of Agriculture -- all > signing off on the safety of these plants." > > Philip S. Angell, director of corporate communications for Monsanto > Co., blames Europe's rejection of biotechnology on a lack of public > trust in food safety agencies there. In particular, he singles out the > still-simmering "mad cow disease" fiasco, in which British government > officials insisted for years that there were no human health risks > from the bovine disease -- only to have that assurance disproved. > > Yet, a continuing series of public relations disasters by Monsanto > have also added to the problem. For example. according to a > preliminary ruling by Britain's official Advertising Standards > Authority last month, a $1.6 million Monsanto advertising campaign > sought to deceive the public by expressing opinions as accepted fact > and making scientific claims that were "wrong" and "misleading." > > Another factor, David Atkinson, vice principal for research at the > Scottish Agricultural College in Edinburgh, pointed out to the Posts > Weiss is that Europeans are more attuned to what's happening in the > countryside than Americans are. "Look," he said, pointing out the > window of his second-story campus office. "Edinburgh is the fifth-or > sixth-largest city in the United Kingdom, and we can look out the > window and see countryside and see farming. . . ." > > > AGREVO: > SCRATCH ONE BRAZILIAN GMO RICE CROP > > Citing the failure to comply with federal safety codes the Brazilian > government recently > destroyed a test plot of genetically modified rice in the southern > state of Rio Grande do Sul operated by the local unit of AgrEvo, the > agrochemical joint venture between Germany's Hoechst AG and Schering > AG. > > "The whole rice crop will be destroyed. The secretary is already on > site and is overseeing the operation," a spokeswoman for the state's > Agriculture Secretary Jose Hermeto Hoffamann told Reuters Phil > Stewart. Authorities began ripping the crop out of the ground on April > 22 she said. The crop would later be burned. > > Andre Abreu, who head's AgrEvo's Brazilian biotechnology program, said > the test plot was a key step in the company's long-term plan to sell > LibertyLink rice in Brazil. > > Currently, Rio Grande do Sul's government, is seeking to ban all > transgenic crops, having already previously threatened to destroy the > 2-hectare AgrEvo test plot as well as Monsanto's 435-hectare plot, > where its local unit is reproducing herbicide-resistant Roundup Ready > soybean seeds while the company is currently wading through the legal > process of registering them for domestic sale > > When Brazil's Commission for Biological Security (CTNBio), which has > been criticized for being too friendly to multinationals, broke > Brazil's historic ban on transgenic crops in 1998 by approving the > safety of Monsanto Co.'s Roundup Ready soybeans it opened a floodgate > of controversy in Latin America's agricultural giant. Environmental > groups led by Greenpeace have been teaming up with farmers worried > about losing business to transgenic-wary European consumers to oppose > the testing. > > CTNBio, however, gave its first-ever authorization to destroy a > transgenic test crop. It argued AgrEvo did not provide the necessary > covering or buffer zone to prevent contamination of nearby > non-genetically modified crops. > > > FLOWER POWER: > COMING TO A SUPERMARKET NEAR YOU > > With years of experience in selling and distributing perishable > products , strong brand recognition, and existing "relationships" with > supermarket chains Dole Foods and Sunkist Growers Inc. are about to > enter the $15 billion floral business. > > Currently the U.S. is the largest market of worldwide fresh flowers > although it ranks 13th in capita consumption just behind Slovenia. > > Risking, according to industry sources, the reputation of their > overall brand names in pineapples, bananas, oranges and other fruits > the two companies will be faced with maintaining the quality and > freshness of their flowers. Floral industry surveys, according to the > Los Angeles Times, show that Americans limit their floral purchases > because they consider fresh flowers a poor value--too expensive and > not long-lasting enough. > > Sunkist flowers, therefore, will come with a seven-day replacement > guarantee, and packaging is stamped with a sell-by date, like milk, > while Dole will time its delivery schedules to supermarkets so that > its flowers never sit on supermarket shelves for more than two or > three days. > > Some supermarkets --- Ralph's, Albertson's, Von's, Safeway --- > already sell their own house brand of flowers. The move into branding, > according to the Times, is part of a larger trend of consolidation in > the highly fragmented floral business, one of the last still dominated > by mom-and-pop businesses and with few national brand names. > > Dole and Washington-based U.S.A. Floral Products Inc., a flower > wholesaler that has licensed the Sunkist name, are buying up growers, > importers, wholesalers and bouquet makers--consolidating what insiders > say is a diffuse distribution system. The companies have been able to > trim costs and the time it takes to get flowers to market--factors > which will be essential to the potential success of the Dole and > Sunkist brands. > > The latest move to brand-name flowers is also a challenge to the > nation's some 40,000 independent florists who will more than likely be > faced with the choice of selling out their business or closing their > doors rather than compete with the supermarkets, while others, > according to industry sources, will benefit from the increased > awareness of flowers generated by increased supermarket advertising. > > Although supermarkets will offer consumers a convenient place to shop > for flowers, the one big hurdle facing Sunkist and Dole is that they > must rely on supermarket employees to properly maintain flowers and > remove old bouquets from the shelves. Dole and Sunkist are currently > training supermarket employees on flower-handling. > > > FOOD FOR THOUGHT > > "It is one thing to say with the prophet Amos, > 'let justice roll down like mighty waters,' > and quite another to work out the irrigation system." > --- William Sloan Coffin > > > > > --------------95910C5B6D9CC84987479AFF Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by mail2.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26967 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:03:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jps.net (209-142-48-86.stk.jps.net [209.142.48.86]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA03385 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 03:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37379D00.B12E6E@jps.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:59:13 -0800 From: "R. Scott Murphy" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Roth Subject: [Fwd: THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER #32] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------937BDE69DF783A87AE1D85BE" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------937BDE69DF783A87AE1D85BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------937BDE69DF783A87AE1D85BE Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp4.jps.net (smtp4.jps.net [209.63.224.57]) by mail3.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA15503; Thu, 6 May 1999 22:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by smtp4.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA09276; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust202.tnt3.everett.wa.da.uu.net [208.251.201.202]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27768; Thu, 6 May 1999 21:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3732703E.DEB602D8@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 21:47:31 -0700 From: "Albert V. Krebs" Reply-To: avkrebs@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: one@earthlink.net Subject: THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER #32 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1A3DDFEFA85E8C5400601470" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 --------------1A3DDFEFA85E8C5400601470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER Issue # 32 May 6, 1999 Monitoring Corporate Agribusiness From a Public Interest Perspective A.V. Krebs Editor\Publisher Editors Note Although there is no subscription fee for THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER, donations will, as always, be gladly accepted. One of my subscribers says he pays $30 a year for 12 issues of a Health letter, and my weekly will hopefully go up to 52 so he feels it is worth at least the cost of a monthly newsletter. I hope you agree. Checks made out to A.V. Krebs, P.O. Box 2201, Everett, Washington 98203-0201 [NOT to "Agribusiness Examiner"] will continue to be received with much gratitude. To those readers of THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER who have already sent donations I want to express my sincere thanks for your continued support and interest in this venture. A reminder also to those who might wish to receive a weekly e-mail edition of THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER, please provide your NAME and E-MAIL ADDRESS. At this time THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER is not available in printed form. IBP: COULD THIS BE THE BEGINNING OF THE END IN DAKOTA CITY ?!? In a major victory for the nation's independent cattle producers, after years of legal struggles by the plaintiffs to overcome numerous roadblocks, U.S. District Court Senior Judge, Lyle B. Strom issued an order April 28 certifying a national "class-action" of cattle producers against IBP (Iowa Beef Processors) The original lawsuit --- Pickett vs IBP --- filed in July, 1996 by ten cattlemen plaintiffs --- Mike Callicrate, Henry Lee Pickett, Sam Britt, Paul Horton, Jim Bower, Pat Goggins, Johnny Smith, Stayton Weldon, Lovel Blain, and David Smith --- as representatives of the "class," charged that IBP violated the Packers and Stockyards Act (P&S Act). "The entire cattle industry has been in an economic crisis ever since IBP and the other big packers schemed to fatten their profits by denying producers a fair price for their cattle, "Callicrate, a St. Francis, Kansas feedlot owner, emphasizes. "Our lawsuit contends that the method IBP uses is to set an unfairly low price it will pay for cattle, and when cattlemen reject that price because they will suffer a loss, IBP slaughters, or threatens to slaughter, cattle from its `captive supply.'" "This illegal strategy," he adds, "leaves cattlemen without a buyer for their cattle. And because finished cattle must be sold quickly while at optimum weight, cattlemen are forced to accept that low bid, at a loss to themselves. This abusive market power profits IBP in lowering prices paid to cattlemen while consumes continue to pay record high prices for beef." The cattlemen also allege, according to their attorney Randy Beard, that by contracting "captive supplies" with certain preferred feedlots, the Dakota City, Nebraska-headquartered IBP reduces its need to participate in the cash market. As a result, he points out, these meatpacker agreements to take ownership of cattle weeks in advance violate the anti-competitive provisions of the P&S Act because they are entered into with the intent of, or having the effect of, reducing the cash market price. Contrary to IBP's contention that low prices are the result of supply and demand, plaintiffs point out that IBP's profits have soared to record levels at a time when cattle producers are going bankrupt. They say that if IBP's defense were true, there would be no reason for them to pursue all these anti-competitive practices, and they would not resist eliminating them. The lawsuit asks that the defendant IBP cease and desist from any further illegal activities in manipulating the price of beef cattle in violation of the P&S Act, and for compensatory and punitive damages, fees and expenses, and any other relief that the court deems appropriate. Plaintiffs estimate that actual damages due cattlemen could approach multi-billions of dollars. Grass-roots cattlemen's organizations, individual cattlemen, national farm groups, National Farmers Union, and a host of others concerned about the plight of the beef industry, submitted amicus briefs to the court supporting the plaintiffs against IBP, and urging "class-action" status, Callicrate said. "Even Canadian cattlemen, whose market is also dominated by IBP, supported us," he noted. "At one point, the court asked Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman to write an opinion as to whether we could pursue a private lawsuit under the P&S Act," Callicrate added. "In an extensively researched brief, Secretary Glickman gave us the green light to press our charges against IBP, he said that the U.S. district court was the only forum to pursue this claim, and allowed the court to fully consider our case and subsequent `class-action' status." EU SCIENTISTS: U.S. BEEF GROWTH HORMONE: "CONSIDERED AS A COMPLETE CARCINOGEN" In a stunning May 3 report released by the European Union's (EU) Scientific Committee on Veterinary Measures the hormone 17 beta-oestradiol -- one of six growth hormones in American beef -- was characterized as being "considered as a complete carcinogen." "It exerts both tumor initiating and tumor promoting effects," the report said. "In plain language, this means that even small additional doses of residues of this hormone in meat, arising from its use as a growth promoter in cattle, has an inherent risk of causing cancer." There was inadequate data to make a definitive finding on the other five growth hormones used in U.S. beef, the scientific committee said. But it said exposure to small levels of residues in meat and meat products "carries risks." While the The European Commission immediately ruled out ending a 10-year-old ban on hormone-treated beef, increasing the risk of escalating the current trade war between the U.S. and the European Union, U.S. trade and agriculture officials sharply criticized the scientist's report. "The supposed new claims are nothing but misleading allegations," said Peter Scher, America's trade negotiator on agricultural matters. He called the report a "blatant attempt" by the EU to delay abiding by its trade obligations. "If the EU does not lift this ban, we will retaliate this summer," Scher told a Senate subcommittee. USDA Secretary Dan Glickman and U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshefsky charged that the EU had issued "yet another misleading report. It repeats the same unsubstantiated arguments that the EU has already made before the World Trade Organization (WTO) panel of experts, which were flatly rejected by the panel," they declared in a joint statement. "The issue is the EU's refusal to comply with the WTO rulings and its unwillingness to honor its international obligations." Answering the U.S. denials that there were any dangers to U.S. exported beef to the EU the Union's commission slammed U.S. criticism of the scientific report. In its statement, the commission accused the U.S. of trying "to belittle the risk" identified by the scientists. "The commission cannot understand why the U.S. has not reacted in a more responsible way to the conclusive findings of the scientific committee,especially as the scientists said children are most at risk from the hormones." Some 90% of American cattle producers now feed hormones approved by the Food and Drug Administration to cattle to make them grow faster and bigger. In 1998 the WTO ruled that the EU ban on hormone-treated beef was illegal and must be lifted by May 13. It said the EU's ban was not supported by the proper risk analysis. After the WTO ruling, the EU ordered 17 studies on risks linked to the use of hormones in meat, some of which were carried out in the U.S. Sixteen of these have yet to be completed. The EU's recent scientific committee report based its opinion on interim findings and the one completed report. The document, which has been sent to Washington for comments, said U.S. regulatory controls on the use of hormones in meat are "deficient" and Canadian controls are "insufficient." Since 1989, the U.S. has exported only hormone-free beef to the EU because of the ban. The U.S. industry has put the lost export sales at $500 million annually. The Clinton administration is threatening to impose 100% tariffs on more than $900 million worth of European products in retaliation for the ban. GMO CORN: ADM, A.E. STALEY SAY NO! CARGILL SAYS YES! In a surprise move the nation's largest corn processor,Archer Daniels Midland Co. (ADM), has announced that it will follow its cross-town Decatur, Illinois competitor, the U.S.'s third largest corn processor A.E. Staley Manufacturing Co., and will only accept corn varieties approved by the European Union "ADM supports the position of the Corn Refiners Association and the National Grain and Feed Association in regard to transgenic corn by not participating in the commerce of the varieties that are not approved by the EU," said ADM spokesperson Carla Miller. "If and when the varieties are approved by the EU, we will participate in the marketing of those grains." "The timing of the announcement couldn't come at a worse time," Doug Wilson, president of the Illinois Corn Growers Association told Dow Jones Newswires. "Most producers have their seed in their shed and it's hard to make adjustments. We're in prime planting time." "Both of those products (Roundup Ready and Bt) are going to be planted by a lot of producers," said Illinois Corn Growers Association spokesman Mark Lambert. Asked if the announcements were bad news to producers, Lambert replied, "Sure it is from the perception standpoint. People are going to see that they're not accepting the product and they're going to assume that it's something wrong with it." Following initial conflicting press reports Cargill Inc., the worlds largest grain trader, reassured U.S. corn growers that it will be accepting delivery of genetically modified corn that has not yet been approved for shipment to the European Union. After it was initially reported that Cargill had joined other industry players in boycotting the genetically modified products, Linda Thrane, with Cargill, reconfirmed that the company will be accepting delivery of genetically modified corn, such as hybrids developed to withstand post-emergent applications of certain chemicals like Monsanto's Roundup. There are also some Bt corn varieties that aren't currently accepted by the EU. The Bt variety is named for the naturally occurring bacillus thurgiensis toxin that is lethal to corn borers and other caterpillars. Genetically engineered to contain Bt, the plants kill many pests as soon as they chew into the stalk. While Cargill is concerned about keeping the GMO product out of supply pipelines that send processing byproducts to Europe, Thrane noted, the company's grain buyers would be able to work with farmers to buy the corn for domestic uses, including animal feed. Meanwhile, Monsanto Inc., which entered into a marketing "alliance" with Cargill in 1998, announced that it plans to help U.S. farmers market the genetically modified corn that has not been approved by the EU. "We would like to eliminate any confusion that exists regarding biotech seed varieties which are approved for export," the company said in a letter to producers. "Following is the approval status of genetically enhanced corn products in the industry to ensure you have the most current and accurate information. We also want to update you on the marketing options for our corn products which must be used or marketed domestically in 1999." Monsanto's Roundup Ready corn has not been approved by the EU, but the company said in its letter that it has identified more than 1,500 U.S. locations "including elevators. feed mills and feed processors, that utilize grain for domestic purposes." In the letter, the company said it was committed to finding domestic uses for non-EU approved corn varieties. "Today, nearly 80% of U.S. corn is used domestically, with 61% used for feed," the letter said. "We are committed and will find a destination for our products not yet approved in the EU Growers can market their grain from these corn technologies by feeding the grain on-farm, selling the grain to livestock producers, and selling the grain to local elevators for domestic use." The EU imports up to 2.5 million metric tons of corn a year. The U.S. grows about 30 million acres of genetically modified corn, of which five million to six million acres aren't approved by the EU, said Iowa-based consulting firm Pro Farmer. Thrane said Cargill is also backing a plan developed by the U.S. corn industry, which includes seed manufacturers and national producer groups. The program will educate producers about what types of genetically modified corn aren't approved yet by the EU. A limited release of Roundup Ready corn was available in 1998, but this is the first growing season where it will be widely available to U.S. farmers. Corn processing industry officials have expressed concern the EU will limit imports of U.S. corn gluten livestock feed if non-approved varieties show up in shipments. The market for the byproduct is worth about $600 million annually. U.S. WANTS EU BAN ON GMOS BEFORE WTO Impatient and frustrated with what it sees as the European Union's feet dragging on the authorization of imported U.S.-produced genetically modified organism (GMO) food products, the U.S. is currently searching for a way to put the GMO issue on the World Trade Organization agenda at the next round of global trade talks. At the same time, however, the U.S. is continuing bilateral talks with the EU to accelerate the Commission's approval of genetically modified corn developed by Monsanto Corp., Novartis of Switzerland, and Hoechst Schering AgrEvo GmbH of Germany. Faced with the fact that it has no specific plan to raise the GMO issue at the WTO because there are no grounds for a trade dispute right now, unlike the cases of suspect beef growth hormones and Carl O. Lindners banana exports to the EU - U.S. sources insist that genetically modified crops "will have to be addressed somehow in the next round of talks." Consequently, the U.S. is now looking for a proper way to tackle the issue and define its position ahead of WTO meetings in Geneva this month and in Seattle in November. Currently, the U.S. faces the prospect of being shut out of the EU corn market this year because of EU delays in approving the sale of genetically modified corn varieties grown in the U.S. At least two gene-modified corn varieties grown in the U.S. have yet to be approved for sale in the EU. The U.S. is anxious to see changes in the EU's approval procedure, known as the 90/220 process. Under that process, scientific reviews take years while equivalent U.S. scientific reviews take only months, according to U.S. sources. In addition the U.S. is also frustrated with what it calls the "effective collapse of the EU's regulatory process for new genetically engineered plants and an incomplete and unworkable food labeling regulation for foods containing genetically modified corn and soybeans," according to Peter L. Scher of the Special Trade Negotiator Office of the U.S. Trade Representative. U.S. officials also blame European consumers' reluctance to accept food made with genetically modified produce on scare-mongering by Europe's media and ineffective public relations strategies by firms like Monsanto. In the "life sciences" industry and the halls of the USDA, GMO crops are at least as safe as traditionally bred crops. "We're talking about tens of thousands of field trials and millions of people who have ingested these foods safely," Carl Feldbaum, president of the Biotechnology Industry Organization (BIO) in Washington, recently told the Washington Posts Rick Weiss. "And before people ingested the foods, we're talking about agencies highly respected by American citizens -- the FDA, the EPA, the Department of Agriculture -- all signing off on the safety of these plants." Philip S. Angell, director of corporate communications for Monsanto Co., blames Europe's rejection of biotechnology on a lack of public trust in food safety agencies there. In particular, he singles out the still-simmering "mad cow disease" fiasco, in which British government officials insisted for years that there were no human health risks from the bovine disease -- only to have that assurance disproved. Yet, a continuing series of public relations disasters by Monsanto have also added to the problem. For example. according to a preliminary ruling by Britain's official Advertising Standards Authority last month, a $1.6 million Monsanto advertising campaign sought to deceive the public by expressing opinions as accepted fact and making scientific claims that were "wrong" and "misleading." Another factor, David Atkinson, vice principal for research at the Scottish Agricultural College in Edinburgh, pointed out to the Posts Weiss is that Europeans are more attuned to what's happening in the countryside than Americans are. "Look," he said, pointing out the window of his second-story campus office. "Edinburgh is the fifth-or sixth-largest city in the United Kingdom, and we can look out the window and see countryside and see farming. . . ." AGREVO: SCRATCH ONE BRAZILIAN GMO RICE CROP Citing the failure to comply with federal safety codes the Brazilian government recently destroyed a test plot of genetically modified rice in the southern state of Rio Grande do Sul operated by the local unit of AgrEvo, the agrochemical joint venture between Germany's Hoechst AG and Schering AG. "The whole rice crop will be destroyed. The secretary is already on site and is overseeing the operation," a spokeswoman for the state's Agriculture Secretary Jose Hermeto Hoffamann told Reuters Phil Stewart. Authorities began ripping the crop out of the ground on April 22 she said. The crop would later be burned. Andre Abreu, who head's AgrEvo's Brazilian biotechnology program, said the test plot was a key step in the company's long-term plan to sell LibertyLink rice in Brazil. Currently, Rio Grande do Sul's government, is seeking to ban all transgenic crops, having already previously threatened to destroy the 2-hectare AgrEvo test plot as well as Monsanto's 435-hectare plot, where its local unit is reproducing herbicide-resistant Roundup Ready soybean seeds while the company is currently wading through the legal process of registering them for domestic sale When Brazil's Commission for Biological Security (CTNBio), which has been criticized for being too friendly to multinationals, broke Brazil's historic ban on transgenic crops in 1998 by approving the safety of Monsanto Co.'s Roundup Ready soybeans it opened a floodgate of controversy in Latin America's agricultural giant. Environmental groups led by Greenpeace have been teaming up with farmers worried about losing business to transgenic-wary European consumers to oppose the testing. CTNBio, however, gave its first-ever authorization to destroy a transgenic test crop. It argued AgrEvo did not provide the necessary covering or buffer zone to prevent contamination of nearby non-genetically modified crops. FLOWER POWER: COMING TO A SUPERMARKET NEAR YOU With years of experience in selling and distributing perishable products , strong brand recognition, and existing "relationships" with supermarket chains Dole Foods and Sunkist Growers Inc. are about to enter the $15 billion floral business. Currently the U.S. is the largest market of worldwide fresh flowers although it ranks 13th in capita consumption just behind Slovenia. Risking, according to industry sources, the reputation of their overall brand names in pineapples, bananas, oranges and other fruits the two companies will be faced with maintaining the quality and freshness of their flowers. Floral industry surveys, according to the Los Angeles Times, show that Americans limit their floral purchases because they consider fresh flowers a poor value--too expensive and not long-lasting enough. Sunkist flowers, therefore, will come with a seven-day replacement guarantee, and packaging is stamped with a sell-by date, like milk, while Dole will time its delivery schedules to supermarkets so that its flowers never sit on supermarket shelves for more than two or three days. Some supermarkets --- Ralph's, Albertson's, Von's, Safeway --- already sell their own house brand of flowers. The move into branding, according to the Times, is part of a larger trend of consolidation in the highly fragmented floral business, one of the last still dominated by mom-and-pop businesses and with few national brand names. Dole and Washington-based U.S.A. Floral Products Inc., a flower wholesaler that has licensed the Sunkist name, are buying up growers, importers, wholesalers and bouquet makers--consolidating what insiders say is a diffuse distribution system. The companies have been able to trim costs and the time it takes to get flowers to market--factors which will be essential to the potential success of the Dole and Sunkist brands. The latest move to brand-name flowers is also a challenge to the nation's some 40,000 independent florists who will more than likely be faced with the choice of selling out their business or closing their doors rather than compete with the supermarkets, while others, according to industry sources, will benefit from the increased awareness of flowers generated by increased supermarket advertising. Although supermarkets will offer consumers a convenient place to shop for flowers, the one big hurdle facing Sunkist and Dole is that they must rely on supermarket employees to properly maintain flowers and remove old bouquets from the shelves. Dole and Sunkist are currently training supermarket employees on flower-handling. FOOD FOR THOUGHT "It is one thing to say with the prophet Amos, 'let justice roll down like mighty waters,' and quite another to work out the irrigation system." --- William Sloan Coffin --------------1A3DDFEFA85E8C5400601470 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

    The
    AGRIBUSINESS
    EXAMINER                            Issue # 32       May 6, 1999

    Monitoring Corporate Agribusiness From a Public Interest Perspective
     

    A.V. Krebs
    Editor\Publisher
     

                                                     Editors Note
    Although there is no subscription fee for THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER, donations will, as always, be gladly  accepted. One of my subscribers says he pays $30 a year for 12 issues of a Health  letter, and my weekly will hopefully go up to 52 so he feels it is worth at  least the cost of a monthly newsletter.  I hope you agree. Checks made out to A.V. Krebs, P.O. Box 2201, Everett, Washington 98203-0201 [NOT to "Agribusiness Examiner"] will continue to be received with much gratitude.

    To those readers of THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER who have already sent donations I want to express my sincere thanks for your continued support and interest in this venture. A reminder also to those who might wish to receive a weekly  e-mail edition of THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER, please provide your NAME and E-MAIL ADDRESS. At this time THE AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER is not available in printed form.
     

    IBP:
    COULD THIS BE THE BEGINNING OF THE END IN DAKOTA CITY ?!?

    In a major victory for the nation's independent cattle producers, after years of legal struggles by the plaintiffs to overcome numerous roadblocks, U.S. District Court Senior Judge, Lyle B. Strom issued an order April 28 certifying a national "class-action" of cattle producers against IBP (Iowa Beef Processors)

    The original lawsuit --- Pickett vs IBP --- filed in July, 1996 by ten cattlemen plaintiffs --- Mike Callicrate, Henry Lee Pickett, Sam Britt, Paul Horton, Jim Bower, Pat Goggins, Johnny Smith, Stayton Weldon, Lovel Blain, and David Smith --- as representatives of the "class," charged that IBP violated the Packers and Stockyards Act (P&S Act).

    "The entire cattle industry has been in an economic crisis ever since IBP and the other big packers schemed to fatten their profits by denying producers a fair price for their cattle, "Callicrate, a St. Francis, Kansas feedlot owner, emphasizes. "Our lawsuit contends that the method IBP uses is to set an unfairly low price it will pay for cattle, and when cattlemen reject that price because they will suffer a loss, IBP slaughters, or threatens to slaughter, cattle from its `captive supply.'"
     
    "This illegal strategy," he adds, "leaves cattlemen without a buyer for their cattle. And because finished cattle must be sold quickly while at optimum weight, cattlemen are forced to accept that low bid, at a loss to themselves. This abusive market power profits IBP in lowering prices paid to cattlemen while consumes continue to pay record high prices for beef."

    The cattlemen also allege, according to their attorney Randy Beard, that by contracting
    "captive supplies" with certain preferred feedlots, the Dakota City, Nebraska-headquartered IBP reduces its need to participate in the cash market. As a result, he points out, these meatpacker agreements to take ownership of cattle weeks in advance violate the anti-competitive provisions of the P&S Act because they are entered into with the intent of, or having the effect of, reducing the cash market price.

    Contrary to IBP's contention that low prices are the result of supply and demand, plaintiffs point out that IBP's profits have soared to record levels at a time when cattle producers are going bankrupt. They say that if IBP's defense were true, there would be no reason for them to pursue all these anti-competitive practices, and they would not resist eliminating them.

    The lawsuit asks that the defendant IBP cease and desist from any further illegal activities in manipulating the price of beef cattle in violation of the P&S Act, and for compensatory and punitive damages, fees and expenses, and any other relief that the court deems appropriate.  Plaintiffs estimate that actual damages due cattlemen could approach multi-billions of dollars.

    Grass-roots cattlemen's organizations, individual cattlemen, national farm groups, National Farmers Union, and a host of others concerned about the plight of the beef industry, submitted amicus briefs to the court supporting the plaintiffs against IBP, and urging "class-action" status, Callicrate said. "Even Canadian cattlemen, whose market is also dominated by IBP, supported us," he noted.

    "At one point, the court asked Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman to write an opinion as to whether we could pursue a private lawsuit under the P&S Act," Callicrate added. "In an extensively researched brief, Secretary Glickman gave us the green light to press our charges against IBP, he said that the U.S. district court was the only forum to pursue this claim, and allowed the court to fully consider our case and subsequent `class-action' status."
     

    EU  SCIENTISTS:
    U.S. BEEF GROWTH HORMONE:
    "CONSIDERED AS A COMPLETE CARCINOGEN"
     
    In a stunning May 3 report released by the European Union's (EU) Scientific Committee on Veterinary Measures the hormone 17 beta-oestradiol -- one of six growth hormones in American beef -- was characterized as being "considered as a complete carcinogen."

    "It exerts both tumor initiating and tumor promoting effects," the report said. "In plain language, this means that even small additional doses of residues of this hormone in meat, arising from its use as a growth promoter in cattle, has an inherent risk of causing cancer."

    There was inadequate data to make a definitive finding on the other five growth hormones used in U.S. beef, the scientific committee said. But it said exposure to small levels of residues in meat and meat products "carries risks."

    While the The European Commission immediately ruled out ending a 10-year-old ban on hormone-treated beef, increasing the risk of escalating the current  trade war between the U.S. and the European Union, U.S. trade and agriculture officials sharply criticized the scientist's report.

    "The supposed new claims are nothing but misleading allegations," said Peter Scher,           America's trade negotiator on agricultural matters. He called the report a "blatant attempt" by the EU to delay abiding by its trade obligations. "If the EU does not lift this ban, we will retaliate this summer," Scher told a Senate subcommittee.

    USDA Secretary Dan Glickman and U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshefsky charged that the EU had issued "yet another misleading report. It repeats the same unsubstantiated arguments that the EU has already made before the World Trade Organization (WTO) panel of experts, which were flatly rejected by the panel," they declared in a joint statement. "The issue is the EU's refusal to comply with the WTO rulings and its unwillingness to honor its international obligations."

    Answering the U.S. denials that there were any dangers to U.S. exported beef to the EU the Union's commission  slammed U.S. criticism of the scientific report. In its statement, the commission accused the U.S. of trying "to belittle the risk" identified by the scientists. "The commission cannot understand why the U.S. has not reacted in a more responsible way to the conclusive findings of the scientific committee,especially as the scientists said children are most at risk from the hormones."

    Some 90% of American cattle producers now feed hormones approved by the Food and Drug Administration to cattle to make them grow faster and bigger. In 1998 the WTO ruled that the EU ban on hormone-treated beef was illegal and must be lifted by May 13. It said the EU's ban was not supported by the proper risk analysis.

    After the WTO ruling, the EU ordered 17 studies on risks linked to the use of hormones in meat, some of which were carried out in the U.S. Sixteen of these have yet to be completed.  The EU's recent scientific committee report based its opinion on interim findings and the one completed report. The document, which has been sent to Washington for comments, said U.S. regulatory controls on the use of hormones in meat are "deficient" and Canadian controls are "insufficient."

    Since 1989, the U.S. has exported only hormone-free beef to the EU because of the ban. The U.S. industry has put the lost export sales at $500 million annually. The Clinton administration is threatening to impose 100% tariffs on more than $900 million worth of European products in retaliation for the ban.
     

    GMO CORN:
    ADM, A.E. STALEY SAY NO! CARGILL SAYS YES!

    In a surprise move the nation's largest corn processor,Archer Daniels Midland Co. (ADM),  has announced that it will follow its cross-town Decatur, Illinois competitor, the U.S.'s third largest corn processor A.E. Staley Manufacturing Co., and will only accept corn varieties approved by the European Union

    "ADM supports the position of the Corn Refiners Association and the National Grain and Feed Association in regard to transgenic corn by not participating in the commerce of the varieties that are not approved by the EU," said ADM spokesperson Carla Miller. "If and when the varieties are approved by the EU, we will  participate in the marketing of those grains."

    "The timing of the announcement couldn't come at a worse time," Doug Wilson, president of the Illinois Corn Growers Association told Dow Jones Newswires. "Most  producers have their seed in their shed and it's hard to make adjustments. We're in prime planting time."

    "Both of those products (Roundup Ready and Bt) are going to be planted by  a lot of producers," said Illinois Corn Growers Association spokesman Mark Lambert. Asked if the announcements were bad news to producers, Lambert replied, "Sure it is from the perception standpoint. People are going to see that they're not accepting the product and they're going to assume that it's  something wrong with it."

    Following initial conflicting press reports Cargill Inc., the worlds largest grain trader,  reassured U.S. corn growers that it will be accepting delivery of genetically modified corn that has not yet been approved for shipment to the European Union.

    After it was initially reported that Cargill had joined other industry players in boycotting the genetically modified products, Linda Thrane, with Cargill, reconfirmed that the company will be accepting delivery of genetically modified corn, such as hybrids developed to withstand post-emergent applications of certain chemicals like Monsanto's Roundup.

    There are also some Bt corn varieties that aren't currently accepted by the EU. The Bt variety is named for the naturally occurring bacillus thurgiensis toxin that is lethal to corn borers and other caterpillars. Genetically engineered to contain Bt, the plants kill many pests as soon as they chew  into the stalk.

    While Cargill is concerned about keeping the GMO product out of supply pipelines that send processing byproducts to Europe, Thrane noted,  the company's grain buyers would be able to work with farmers to buy the corn for domestic uses, including animal feed.

    Meanwhile, Monsanto Inc., which entered into a marketing "alliance" with Cargill in 1998, announced that it  plans to help U.S. farmers market the genetically modified corn that has not been approved by the EU.

    "We would like to eliminate any confusion that exists regarding biotech  seed varieties which are approved for export," the company said in a letter to producers. "Following is the approval status of genetically enhanced corn products in the industry to ensure you have the most current  and accurate information. We also want to update you on the marketing  options for our corn products which must be used or marketed domestically  in 1999."

    Monsanto's Roundup Ready corn has not been approved by the EU, but the company said in its letter that it has identified more than 1,500 U.S. locations "including elevators. feed mills and feed processors, that utilize grain for domestic purposes."

    In the letter, the company said it was committed to finding domestic uses for non-EU approved corn varieties. "Today, nearly 80% of U.S. corn is used domestically, with 61% used for feed," the letter said. "We are committed and will find a destination for  our products not yet approved in the EU Growers can market their grain  from these corn technologies by feeding the grain on-farm, selling the  grain to livestock producers, and selling the grain to local elevators for  domestic use."

    The EU imports up to 2.5 million metric tons of corn a year. The U.S. grows about 30 million acres of genetically modified corn, of  which five million to six million acres aren't approved by the EU, said Iowa-based consulting firm Pro Farmer.

    Thrane said Cargill is also backing a plan developed by the U.S. corn industry, which includes seed manufacturers and national producer groups. The program will educate producers about what types of genetically modified corn aren't approved yet by the EU.

    A limited release of Roundup Ready corn was available in 1998, but this is the first growing season where it will be widely available to U.S. farmers. Corn processing industry officials have expressed concern the EU will limit imports of U.S. corn gluten livestock feed if non-approved varieties show up in shipments. The market for the byproduct is worth about $600 million annually.
     

    U.S. WANTS EU BAN ON GMOS BEFORE WTO

    Impatient and frustrated with what it sees as the European Union's feet dragging on the authorization of imported U.S.-produced genetically modified organism (GMO) food products, the U.S. is currently searching for a way to put the GMO issue on the World Trade Organization agenda at the next round of global trade talks.

    At the same time, however, the U.S. is continuing bilateral talks with the EU to
    accelerate the Commission's approval of genetically modified corn developed by Monsanto Corp., Novartis of Switzerland, and Hoechst Schering AgrEvo GmbH of Germany.

    Faced with the fact that it has no specific plan to raise the GMO issue at the WTO because there are no grounds for a trade dispute right now, unlike the cases of suspect beef growth hormones and Carl O. Lindners banana exports to the EU - U.S. sources insist that genetically modified crops "will have to be addressed somehow in the next round of talks." Consequently, the U.S. is now looking for a proper way to tackle the issue and define its position ahead of WTO meetings in Geneva this month and in Seattle in November.

    Currently, the U.S. faces the prospect of being shut out of the EU corn market this year because of EU delays in approving the sale of genetically modified corn varieties grown in the U.S. At  least two gene-modified corn varieties grown in the U.S. have yet to be approved for sale in the EU.

    The U.S. is anxious to see changes in the EU's approval procedure, known as the 90/220 process.  Under that process, scientific reviews take years while equivalent U.S. scientific reviews take only months, according to U.S. sources. In addition the U.S. is also frustrated with what it calls the "effective collapse of the EU's regulatory process for new genetically engineered plants and an incomplete and unworkable food labeling regulation for foods containing  genetically modified corn and soybeans," according to Peter L. Scher of the Special Trade Negotiator Office of the U.S. Trade Representative.

    U.S. officials also blame European consumers' reluctance to accept food made with genetically modified produce on scare-mongering by Europe's media and ineffective public relations strategies by firms like Monsanto.

    In the "life sciences" industry and the halls of the USDA, GMO crops are at least as safe as traditionally bred crops. "We're talking about tens of thousands of field trials and millions of people who have ingested these foods safely," Carl Feldbaum, president of the Biotechnology Industry Organization (BIO) in Washington, recently told the Washington Posts Rick Weiss. "And before people ingested the foods, we're talking about agencies highly respected by American citizens -- the FDA, the EPA, the Department of Agriculture -- all signing off on the safety of these plants."
     
    Philip S. Angell, director of corporate communications for Monsanto Co., blames Europe's rejection of biotechnology on a lack of public trust in food safety agencies there. In particular, he singles out the still-simmering "mad cow disease" fiasco, in which British government officials insisted for years that there were no human health risks from the bovine disease -- only to have that assurance disproved.
     
    Yet, a continuing series of public relations disasters by Monsanto have also added to the problem. For example. according to a preliminary ruling by Britain's official Advertising Standards Authority last month, a $1.6 million Monsanto advertising campaign sought to deceive the public by expressing opinions as accepted fact and making scientific claims that were "wrong" and "misleading."

    Another factor, David Atkinson, vice principal for research at the Scottish Agricultural College in Edinburgh, pointed out to the Posts Weiss is that Europeans are more attuned to what's happening in the countryside than Americans are. "Look," he said, pointing out the window of his second-story campus office. "Edinburgh is the fifth-or sixth-largest city in the United Kingdom, and we can look out the window and see countryside and see farming. . . ."
     

    AGREVO:
    SCRATCH ONE BRAZILIAN GMO RICE CROP

    Citing the failure to comply with federal safety codes the Brazilian government recently
    destroyed a test plot of genetically modified rice in the southern state of Rio Grande do Sul operated by the local unit of AgrEvo, the agrochemical joint venture between Germany's Hoechst AG and Schering AG.

    "The whole rice crop will be destroyed. The secretary is already on site and is overseeing the operation," a spokeswoman for the state's Agriculture Secretary Jose Hermeto Hoffamann told Reuters Phil Stewart. Authorities began ripping the crop out of the ground on April 22 she said. The crop would later be burned.

    Andre Abreu, who head's AgrEvo's Brazilian biotechnology program, said the test plot was a key step in the company's long-term plan to sell LibertyLink rice in Brazil.

    Currently, Rio Grande do Sul's government, is seeking to ban all transgenic crops, having already previously threatened to destroy the 2-hectare AgrEvo test plot as well as Monsanto's 435-hectare plot, where its local unit is reproducing herbicide-resistant Roundup Ready soybean seeds while the company is currently wading through the legal process of registering them for domestic sale

    When Brazil's Commission for Biological Security (CTNBio), which has been criticized for being too friendly to multinationals, broke Brazil's historic ban on transgenic crops in 1998 by approving the safety of Monsanto Co.'s Roundup Ready soybeans it opened a floodgate of controversy in Latin America's agricultural giant. Environmental groups led by Greenpeace have been teaming up with farmers worried about losing business to transgenic-wary European consumers to oppose the testing.

    CTNBio, however, gave its first-ever authorization to destroy a transgenic test crop. It argued AgrEvo did not provide the necessary covering or buffer zone to prevent contamination of nearby non-genetically modified crops.
     

    FLOWER POWER:
    COMING TO A SUPERMARKET NEAR YOU

    With years of experience in selling and distributing perishable products , strong brand recognition, and existing "relationships" with supermarket chains Dole Foods and Sunkist Growers Inc. are about to enter the $15 billion floral business.

    Currently the U.S. is the largest market of worldwide fresh flowers although it ranks 13th in capita consumption just behind Slovenia.

    Risking, according to industry sources, the reputation of their overall brand names in pineapples, bananas, oranges and other fruits the two companies will be faced with maintaining the quality and freshness of their flowers. Floral industry surveys, according to the Los Angeles Times, show that Americans limit their floral purchases because they consider fresh flowers a poor value--too expensive and not long-lasting enough.

    Sunkist flowers, therefore, will come with a seven-day replacement guarantee, and packaging is stamped with a sell-by date, like milk, while Dole will time its delivery schedules to supermarkets so that its flowers never sit on supermarket shelves for more than two or three days.

    Some supermarkets --- Ralph's, Albertson's, Von's, Safeway ---  already sell their own house brand of flowers. The move into branding, according to the Times, is part of a larger trend of consolidation in the highly fragmented floral business, one of the last still dominated by mom-and-pop businesses and with few national brand names.

    Dole and Washington-based U.S.A. Floral Products Inc., a flower wholesaler that has licensed the Sunkist name, are buying up growers, importers, wholesalers and bouquet makers--consolidating what insiders say is a diffuse distribution system. The companies have been able to trim costs and the time it takes to get flowers to market--factors which will be essential to the potential success of the Dole and Sunkist brands.

    The latest move to brand-name flowers is also a challenge to the nation's some 40,000 independent florists who will more than likely be faced with the choice of selling out their business or closing their doors rather than compete with the supermarkets, while others, according to industry sources, will benefit from the increased awareness of flowers generated by increased supermarket advertising.

    Although supermarkets will offer consumers a convenient place to shop for flowers, the one big hurdle facing Sunkist and Dole is that they must rely on supermarket employees to properly maintain flowers and remove old bouquets from the shelves. Dole and Sunkist are currently training supermarket employees on flower-handling.
     

    FOOD FOR THOUGHT

    "It is one thing to say with the prophet Amos,
    'let justice roll down like mighty waters,'
    and quite another to work out the irrigation system."
    --- William Sloan Coffin



     
      --------------1A3DDFEFA85E8C5400601470-- --------------937BDE69DF783A87AE1D85BE-- --------------95910C5B6D9CC84987479AFF-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 11 12:20:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07075 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20470 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27212; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:11:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27095 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:10:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bucky.excite.com ([199.172.152.80]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990511161049.MLWW14444.gigi@bucky.excite.com>; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:10:49 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org, cen32750@centuryinter.net, JCHodgson@aol.com, amaranth@uninets.net, maribou@infocom.com, amrmeb@ime.net, michaelafarm@seidata.com Cc: oeffa@iwaynet.net, Organic4um@aol.com, pastpat@thepoint.net, savage@alltel.net, teny10@yahoo.com, abundant@olypen.com Subject: Fwd: LET'S HAVE A PARTY! (actually, let's have 11!) Message-Id: <926439012.15462.143@excite.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:10:12 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.205 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 283 > From: Robert Cohen <" i4crob"@idt.net> > To: info@thecampaign.org > Cc: scott fuller , > " (Matthew Isaac Brown)" , biotech-L@cornell.edu > Subject: LET'S HAVE A PARTY! (actually, let's have 11!) > Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:47:01 -0400 > Message-ID: <373818B5.5AD@idt.net> > > The Campaign to Label Genetically Engineered Foods wrote: > > ...we started a new non-profit 501(c)4 political advocacy organization > called The Campaign to Label Genetically Engineered Foods. > I know what I'm doing this summer-do you? > We need more media coverage... > > Dear Friends, > I write a DAILY column and this one relates to your mission: > > > DAIRY DIARY - SQUIRTS OF NOTMILK WISDOM > > WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD > > WILL THE GOVERNMENT LISTEN TO YOU? > > You and I, American citizens, have been invited to testify at USDA > hearings. > > The Clinton Administration is seeking a broad range of advice and ideas > to help form U.S. agricultural trade policy. The USDA has invited > farmers and ranchers, processors, exporters and consumers to voice their > comments.and concerns relating to products from new technologies. This > means GENETICALLLY ENGINEERED FOODS! > > HERE IS OUR ONE LAST CHANCE! > > DO WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT WE ARE EATING? > > Manufacturers and processors do not want you to know whether your food > is genetically engineered or not. I believe that we have a right to > know. Mistakes in genetic engineering have been made and continue to be > made. That is the point of my own personal opinion. I want the right > to make a choice. Do you? > > PUT A LABEL ON GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS > > How about the double helix? Put a label on any food product so changed > by modern technology. I demand the right to know. A simple label is > all that I request. I do not need the surgeon general's warning, with > an editorial. Just an insignia. If enough people ask for this, we'll > get it! > > HERE IS WHAT YOU CAN DO: > > REGISTER IN YOUR DISTRICT > > MAKE A PHONE CALL TODAY > > If you live in one of the states in your district, please come to that > hearing. It will give you the opportunity to meet other interested > parties including activists and environmentalists. If these hearings > are anything like last year's USDA ORGANIC FOOD STANDARD hearings, this > is an opportunity to share ideas with those who want safe foods. Join > those who dedicate their lives to making a difference. > > JUNE 4 - Winter Haven, Florida (Nora Mayo Hall) > CONTACT: Will Bussey (850) 488-3022 > STATES: Florida > > JUNE 7 - St. Paul, Minnesota (Holiday Inn, St. Paul, East) > CONTACT: Darla Riley (651) 282-5140 > STATES: Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin > > JUNE 16 - Memphis, Tennessee (Agri-Center International) > CONTACT: Joe Gaines (615) 837-5160 > STATES: Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, > South Carolina, Mississippi, Arkansas > > JUNE 24 - Indianapolis, Indiana (Indiana State Fair) > CONTACT: Julia Wickard (317) 232-8778 > STATES: Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, West Virginia > > JUNE 29 - Sacramento, California (California Department of Food and > Agriculture) > CONTACT: Marjorie Beazer (916) 654-0462 > STATES: California, Hawaii, Arizona > > JUNE 30 - Pullman, Washington (To be determined) > CONTACT: Lisa Schumaker (360) 902-1926 > STATES: Washington, Idho, Oregon, Alaska > > JULY 8 - Austin, Texas (The Texas State Capitol) > CONTACT: Dawn DeBerry (512) 475-1615 > STATES: Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, New Mexico > > JULY 12 - Des Moines, Iowa (To be determined) > CONTACT: Joan Kiernan (515) 281-5323 > STATES: Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska > > JULY 19 - Burlington, Vermont (To be determined) > CONTACT: Theresa Doyle (802) 828-2430 > STATES: Vermont, New York, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, > Connecticut, Rhode Island > > JULY 23 - Bozeman, Montana (To be determined) > CONTACT: Montana Department of Agriculture (406) 444-3144 > STATES: Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, Utah > > JULY 23 - Newark, Delaware (University of Delaware) > CONTACT: Brenda Minor (302) 739-4811 > STATES: Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland > > Robert Cohen > 201-871-5871 > > http://www.antidairycoalition.com http://www.notmilk.com Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 11 13:58:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09412 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25799 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA05283; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:48:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05150 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:47:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool010-max9.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.3.60]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05202 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990510215439.009a6cb0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:54:39 -0700 To: From: Fred Chambers Subject: Missouri has loans available for alternative agriculture In-Reply-To: <3735AB9B.80716DDD@nemaine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 284 Published Sunday, May 9, 1999, in the Kansas City Star ------------------------------------------------------------ BEHIND THE SCENES Missouri has loans available for alternative agriculture If you're into "alternative agriculture," Missouri has money for you. The state's Alternative Loan Program can provide up to $20,000 at 8 percent interest for five years. The program has $1.6 million available, though some already is on loan and not all loans are for five years. Borrowers can use the money for what the Missouri Department of Agriculture calls "a variety of alternative projects, including horticulture production and marketing, aquaculture, tree and landscape farming, fee hunting areas, organic production enterprises and value-added endeavors." (snip) Quote of the week "My collection is just under $7,000. My wife says it's the kids' college fund." Vince Peyton, an Olathe resident who waited for a Toys R Us store to open so he could buy action figures from the new "Star Wars" movie. - Compiled by Mark DavisNewsHound is a service of Knight-Ridder, Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------ NewsHound is a service of Knight-Ridder, Inc. For more information, visit the NewsHound website at http://www.newshound.com or send an email to speak@hound.com. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 12 01:50:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA23846 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 01:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA10789 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 01:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA20950; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:43:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA20889 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:42:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 27755 invoked from network); 12 May 1999 05:42:26 -0000 Received: from a48-01-12.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.12) (216.26.11.12) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 12 May 1999 05:42:26 -0000 Message-ID: <373916A8.4374@teleport.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:50:34 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Intergalactic Garage CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: drip irrigation References: <199905092347.TAA27845@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 285 Intergalactic Garage wrote: 1. Do I need to use a pressure regulator with drip tape? You should use both a pressure regulator and a filter. Without the regulator you will probably blow out the tape, although running it at 1-1/2 to 2 times the recommended pressure may keep it from plugging up as fast, perhaps double the life of the tape. DO NOT RUN DRIP TAPE WITHOUT A FILTER. Even very small particles will plug up emitters. 3. AND, what's a good mail order supplier of this system? We get most of the parts as well as the tape (in 3,000 foot rolls) at our local well and pump supply house, but we live in an agricultural town. Where are you located? Peaceful Valley Farm Supply in Grass Vaslley, California has a good array of parts and tape, but shipping to you may be too expensive. I'm sure others know local suppliers throughout the country, but unless we know where you are it is hard to help. Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 12 18:10:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11089 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09525 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15608; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:02:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from xavier.ups.com (xavier.ups.com [198.80.14.117]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15355 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:59:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from xavier.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id RAA03698 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (smtp.field4.ups.com [153.2.2.62]) by xavier.ups.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/UPS) with ESMTP id RAA03623; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from revere4.telecom.ups.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with ESMTP id RAA02441; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nyc1cdb.ups.com ([10.20.227.50]) by revere4.telecom.ups.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/UPS) with SMTP id RAA02436; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101be9cc2$a6ff72e0$32e3140a@nyc1cdb.ups.com> Reply-To: "Ann Sterling" From: "Ann Sterling" To: "W-H List" Cc: "csa list" Subject: cheese Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:59:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 286 I'm interested in cheesemaking, possibly for small scale direct sales (farmer's market maybe), anyone have experience in this? What restrictions, codes, things to look out for etc.? Any and all input welcomed Ann Sterling nyc1axw@nermail.ups.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 12 23:49:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16545 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 23:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA02781 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 23:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA07444; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:41:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA07370 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:41:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 22980 invoked from network); 13 May 1999 03:41:00 -0000 Received: from a48-01-40.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.40) (216.26.11.40) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 13 May 1999 03:41:00 -0000 Message-ID: <373A4BB5.23BE@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:49:10 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ann Sterling CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: cheese References: <001101be9cc2$a6ff72e0$32e3140a@nyc1cdb.ups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 287 When asking for help, particularly about subjects which have legal implications, it helps to know were you are geographically. Federal laws tend to be the same across the country (at least in the US), but even they can vary from region to region. Many food items are also regulated state by state, and the laws can very widely. For instance, here in Oregon chicken eggs are regulated but duck eggs are not - except for the underlying basic safe food handling regulations. Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 13 14:43:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28882 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25643 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA21455; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:35:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21317 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:34:07 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (8042) by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dLMa027691 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5bb17aa5.246c74a8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:32:08 EDT Subject: Intern Wanted To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 288 Must have farmer's market and CSA experience. Not an apprenticeship, a chance to practice what you already know and learn a bit more. The right person can keep things moving here while I work an off-farm job in the city, returning to help on weekends. Free room, board, $50 guaranteed weekly cash stipend, and profit share from sales. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com/agrove1.html From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 14 18:07:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28196 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA07911 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA19055; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:59:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18951 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:57:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [12.73.96.121] by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990514215722.IWMW10925@[12.73.96.121]> for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:57:22 +0000 Message-ID: <00d001be9e56$421808c0$e660490c@ELN/cyberbamm> From: "Garth Bammer" To: Subject: (Not so) Permanent Markers Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:19:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 289 Dori Green wrote: I wish to point out it's not the marker that's the problem when trying to use those plastic plant labels, it's the plastic plant labels. No pen works at all on them; I don't know what they were thinking when they created them for that use. What I do is either write on masking tape with ball point pen and wrap the plastic marker with the tape (to use up the supply of plastic ones I have) or use wood ones, like popsicle sticks. The pen works great there. Just a note from someone who would like to see the "snotty letter" go to the truly problematic source! Laura Bammer CSA wanna be, Renton, Washington From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 14 18:12:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA29287 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11324 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA19606; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:04:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18967 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:58:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [12.73.96.121] by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990514215733.IWOG10925@[12.73.96.121]> for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:57:33 +0000 Message-ID: <00d101be9e56$48ac9ac0$e660490c@ELN/cyberbamm> From: "Garth Bammer" To: "CSA List" Subject: Re: Farm celebrations and pumkins Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:27:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 290 -----Original Message----- From: Will Newman II the spring and one day in the fall.> Please let us know what the dates are in June and September; I'd like to visit your farm this year myself. Thanks too for all your good advice -- you're very thorough. Laura Bammer CSA wannabe, Renton, WA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 14 18:54:25 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA01921 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24816 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22093; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:45:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21814 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:41:55 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com (4423) by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dFINa05661 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6d9684df.246e0027@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:39:35 EDT Subject: Re: (Not so) Permanent Markers To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 291 In a message dated 5/14/99 5:58:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cyberbamm@worldnet.att.net writes: << Just a note from someone who would like to see the "snotty letter" go to the truly problematic sourc >> I understand your piont, but the darned thing is clearly marked "Permanent on ALL Surfaces". Still waffling about putting any time toward sitting down and writing the thing. And looking for a source for a big box of wooden popsicle sticks! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com/agrove1.html From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 14 19:16:30 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA02208 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA02200 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23425; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:08:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23367 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:08:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26881>; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:11:03 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Garth Bammer" cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Message-Id: <99May14.181103cdt.26881@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:06:32 -0500 Subject: Re: (Not so) Permanent Markers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 292 Pencil seems to work though.... "Garth Bammer" on 05/14/99 04:19:58 PM To: csa-l@prairienet.org cc: Subject: (Not so) Permanent Markers Dori Green wrote: I wish to point out it's not the marker that's the problem when trying to use those plastic plant labels, it's the plastic plant labels. No pen works at all on them; I don't know what they were thinking when they created them for that use. What I do is either write on masking tape with ball point pen and wrap the plastic marker with the tape (to use up the supply of plastic ones I have) or use wood ones, like popsicle sticks. The pen works great there. Just a note from someone who would like to see the "snotty letter" go to the truly problematic source! Laura Bammer CSA wanna be, Renton, Washington From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 14 20:11:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA03014 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA20002 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA26347; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:03:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26284 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:02:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (akron-216-196-24-38.raex.com [216.196.24.38]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA15737 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009a01be9e66$0f052200$2618c4d8@default> From: "carol busson" To: Subject: RE: (not so) permanent markers Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:01:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 293 Hi all, And looking for a source for a big box of wooden popsicle sticks! One good source is restaraunt supply places. I buy 1200 at a time for $4 or so. They are wooden coffee stirrers. Very handy. They are a little thinner than actual popcycle sticks but work pretty well if you write small. Carol Busson Dragonfly Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 15 15:08:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10175 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 15:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA13414 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 15:00:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA00261; Sat, 15 May 1999 14:00:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from guppy.pond.net (guppy.pond.net [205.240.25.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00181 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 13:59:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.149.187.43] (pAp43.pond.net [207.149.187.43]) by guppy.pond.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA00626 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905151848.LAA00626@guppy.pond.net> Subject: Re: (Not so) Permanent Markers Date: Sat, 15 May 99 12:03:56 -0700 x-sender: cgrowers@mail.pond.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Aaron Silverman To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 294 We use white plastice labels to mark all trays, flats & pots (much of our starts & greens are grown in soil blocks in bread trays). I've found that the best writing implement by far is a carpenter's pencil - easy to sharpen, doesn't fade in water or sun, and allows the tags to be reused several times, depending on how neat the writer was. Simply wipe off the pencil with some old fashioned spit polish, and it's ready for another layer. Cheap too. Aaron Creative Growers Aaron Silverman 88741 Torrence Rd. Noti, Or. 97461 Quality Produce & Pastured Poultry From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 15 17:06:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA11130 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:06:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11107 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 16:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA03687; Sat, 15 May 1999 15:58:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03631 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 15:58:02 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (7810) by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dSJKa19535; Sat, 15 May 1999 16:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1bb2c85b.246f39af@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 16:57:19 EDT Subject: Re: (Not so) Permanent Markers To: DGreen47@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 295 My sharpie marker has lasted a few seasons on the plastic markers. No other permanent marker works though. Suzy From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 15 17:20:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA11256 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14087 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA04184; Sat, 15 May 1999 16:12:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from vm4-ext.prodigy.net (vm4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.59.137]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04129 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 16:11:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 708661617 (DYTNB102-27.splitrock.net [209.156.66.27]) by vm4-ext.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA194468; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:11:49 -0400 Message-Id: <199905152111.RAA194468@vm4-ext.prodigy.net> Reply-To: From: "Vincent J McKelvey" To: , Subject: Re: (Not so) Permanent Markers Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:01:57 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 296 1000 popsicle sticks ("craft sticks" in their parlance) at Frank's Nursery, $2.99. made by Forster, probably available at most craft stores. noreen willhelm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat May 15 22:39:05 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15129 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:39:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19056 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA13759; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:31:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from post1.fast.net (post1.fast.net [198.69.204.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13656 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:29:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gregbowm (maxtnt08-abe-147.fast.net [205.147.196.147]) by post1.fast.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA29593 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373E2809.3CAE@fast.net> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:06:01 -0400 From: Greg Bowman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: RE: (Not so) permanent markers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 297 Laura Bammer wrote: I wish to point out it's not the marker that's the problem when trying to use those plastic plant labels, it's the plastic plant labels. No pen works at all on them;.../snip/ Friends: This is Greg Bowman from Indian Creek Community Farm, a teaching micro-farm for people across broad range of abilities, using the rudiments of the Biointensive method. Plastic mini-blind louvers seem to hold permanent marker longer than the plastic stakes, especially if you use the up side that's been a bit degraded (roughened) by the sun's UV rays. They work fine cut down small in seedling trays and in loose soil; not so well outside when soil is really firm. When I need plant IDs for tall plants, I staple a 12 inch section of louver to a 1.5x1.5x48 oak or cherry stake (trim waste from a local cabinetry shop). Over winter, one of those green abrasive pads for wet sanding works well to remove the lettering for reuse. For heavy duty use, try the vinyl clad metal mini-blinds. I take some extra time to snip of the top corners at a 45-degree angle to avoid anyone getting scratched by the sharp metal edge. And watch where those little snips of metal go. -- Greg Bowman Program coordinator, Indian Creek Communty Farm P.O. Box 225 Harleysville PA 19438 215.245.0364 H:610.845.2436 Communicating for whole farms...for whole communities...for the whole world. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon May 17 11:37:28 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12248 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:37:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA09566 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA27251; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:29:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtpgate.dphe.state.co.us (smtpgate.dphe.state.co.us [165.127.8.106]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA27111 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:27:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from DPHED1-Message_Server by smtpgate.dphe.state.co.us with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:25:03 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:18:55 -0700 From: Laurie Fisher To: csa-l@prairienet.org, busson@raex.com Subject: RE: (not so) permanent markers -Reply Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 298 Regarding wooden popsicle sticks: either a hobby supply store or the craft secion of (forgive me) Wal-Mart will have boxes of 1000 for a few buck. Laurie Fisher Colorado CSA fan From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 18 23:06:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA00785 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 23:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01293 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 22:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03845; Tue, 18 May 1999 21:58:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03753 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 21:56:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 25414 invoked from network); 19 May 1999 02:56:28 -0000 Received: from a48-02-27.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.91) (216.26.11.91) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 19 May 1999 02:56:28 -0000 Message-ID: <37422A52.D9C@teleport.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:04:51 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garth Bammer CC: CSA List Subject: Re: Farm celebrations and pumkins References: <00d101be9e56$48ac9ac0$e660490c@ELN/cyberbamm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 299 Open farm day this year is Juneteenth (Saturday, June 19th) from 1 to 5 pm. Our Harvest Festival is Saturday, September 18th from 1 to 9 pm. If you have a fax number I can fax you a map. Laura Bammer wrote: "Please let us know what the dates are in June and September; I'd like to visit your farm this year myself. Laura Bammer CSA wannabe, Renton, WA" WE'RE ALL WANNABES, some of us have just been getting ready longer Will From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue May 18 23:15:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA00911 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 23:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05511 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 23:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA04563; Tue, 18 May 1999 22:07:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA04050 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 22:01:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 27254 invoked from network); 19 May 1999 03:01:29 -0000 Received: from a48-02-27.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.91) (216.26.11.91) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 19 May 1999 03:01:29 -0000 Message-ID: <37422B7E.7FB4@teleport.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:09:52 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: carol busson CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: (not so) permanent markers References: <009a01be9e66$0f052200$2618c4d8@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 300 A word of warning: in truly active soil wooden markers tend to rot. We sometimes use 1/8 inch by 1 inch by 8 inch wood markers in beds for farm tours. We can't get them through a season. The miniblinds I talked about, marked with Sharpie pens last 3 to 4 years before we have to re-mark them. As I said before, we mark them with numbers, not names, and keep a log of what the numbers mean. Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 19 09:30:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06426 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA14609 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA26873; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:22:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26497 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:18:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA02580; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:17:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-54.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.54) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002552; Wed May 19 08:16:59 1999 Message-ID: <00b101bea1f9$84acd340$36fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Visiting Pets (was baby-proofing a farm) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:14:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 301 Hi people, We its finally raining albeit sprinkling fingers crossed it keeps going all day. Its such a good excuse to play on the computer, although hindered by the fact that my mouse arrow is invisible, still works but sort of by random clicking very annoying. Well I wrote my newsletter and have about 1/2 of them mailed. I appriciated everyone imput on "rules". When I told my husband I was going to be tough and put in the newsletter "watch your kids and no pets" he was "Well maybe not in the first newsletter........" I said yes first one rules upfront. Well a few days later two ladies came up (they knew our membership was full but wanted to see the farm), they brought with them two pony sized dogs a great dane and a dobermin, they jumped out of the car window, my husband rushed our dogs into the house. The ladies said is it alright if the dogs walk around I said they won't hurt my critters, cows and horses, they said no. As far as dogs go they were ok, but they kept wanting to run into the garden. When they left my husband said "They should have got your newsletter" I said see thats why no pets. Its fun to be right :). This is what I wrote:Health and Happiness: I know from speaking to you that you have choosen Green Hill Farm as a healthy alternative to supermarket produce, "safe" food we might say. On those same lines of safety, I would be remiss if I did not caution those with small children to never leave them unattended. The farm is a busy, exciting, and awesome place especially for a toddler. However there are places that deserve respect. The obvious one is the animals. None of our animals have ever shown any signs of aggression to humans, buty they also show no regard to how they move in relation to where we are standing. I got kicked in the knoee by one of the big horses, simply because I was in his space as he was literally jumping for joy at being let out into the field. It was very "ouchy". The cows with their big horns wave their heads around at fly's etc. The fence is electric and wihile harmless its zap isn't pleasant. Of course there is the equipment and the street but you get the idea. I go on to say stuff about tours education setting up a play area, and then I tell them to come get a Pumpkin kit a cup, soil, seed. The child will label the cup with their name, plant the seed and bring it back to me. We will plant it and tag it with their name and they can watch their pumpkin(s) grow all summer and their harvest it. Pets basically I said strange dogs and farm animals don't mix and said how the donkey kicks dogs (he does) an our own dogs give him his space. Well just thought I'd write since the message level has decreased, gee think we're busy? When it rains where you are you can have an excuse to write. PS Dumb question: If I could find some potatoes at a health food store could they be planted? I ask because I'd like to plant blue potatoes and am not finding seed potatoes. I just want a few to be fun. Beth disregard spelling errors with my mouse not working I can't get back into the text or spell check. -----Original Message----- From: DGreen47@aol.com To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 6:45 PM Subject: Re: Visiting Pets (was baby-proofing a farm) >>From our brochure and repeated with a bit of expansion in our member handbook: > >"Visitors are welcome on Sunday afternoons between 2 and 6 PM or at other >times by appointment. Pets are safer and happier at home." > >Lots of people think it's a fine and wonderful thing to bring their dogs up >to the farm for a run, with or without permission. One look at my Great >Pyrenees livestock guardian -- who takes his job VERY seriously -- is enough >to convince most of them that the park is a better spot for such sport. > >The statement in the member handbook is more direct: "Dogs and other pets >are not permitted at the farm. No exceptions." Period. > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 20 01:51:32 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA27997 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA25286 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA03449; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:43:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA03346 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:41:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 6350 invoked from network); 20 May 1999 05:41:30 -0000 Received: from a48-02-10.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.74) (216.26.11.74) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 20 May 1999 05:41:30 -0000 Message-ID: <3743A283.49A@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:49:56 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Hook CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Visiting Pets (was baby-proofing a farm) References: <00b101bea1f9$84acd340$36fb6ed1@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 302 Dan Hook wrote: "...question: If I could find some potatoes at a health food store could they be planted? I ask because I'd like to plant blue potatoes and am not finding seed potatoes. I just want a few to be fun." I don't know where you are, but in Oregon it is generally a bad idea to plant store-bought potatoes, especially organic, due to the liklihood that they carry disease. Not a problem as far as eating is concerned, but for planting they can lead to serious infestation. And the disease lingers in the soil, so subsequent plantings, even if disease free when planted, will be infected. We buy only certified disease-free seed potatoes. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 20 06:57:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA00189 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA26990 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10188; Thu, 20 May 1999 05:49:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10133 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 05:48:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA12274; Thu, 20 May 1999 05:46:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-195.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.195) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma012269; Thu May 20 05:46:25 1999 Message-ID: <009201bea2ad$aac60a60$19fc6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "carol busson" Cc: Subject: Re: (not so) permanent markers Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:43:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 303 Thank-you Will someone else advised the same thing. I am in Massachusetts which is dryer (too dry at the moment) than the NW, but I don't need any diseases in the garden! Beth -----Original Message----- From: Will Newman II To: carol busson Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 11:07 PM Subject: Re: (not so) permanent markers >A word of warning: in truly active soil wooden markers tend to rot. We >sometimes use 1/8 inch by 1 inch by 8 inch wood markers in beds for farm >tours. We can't get them through a season. > >The miniblinds I talked about, marked with Sharpie pens last 3 to 4 >years before we have to re-mark them. > >As I said before, we mark them with numbers, not names, and keep a log >of what the numbers mean. > >Will Newman II >CSA at Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 20 07:12:55 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA01451 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 07:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA29454 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 07:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA10742; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:04:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10697 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:04:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA13059; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:02:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-195.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.195) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013044; Thu May 20 06:02:38 1999 Message-ID: <00c901bea2af$ef1ec420$19fc6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Dan Hook" , , "carol busson" Cc: Subject: Re: (not so) permanent markers Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:00:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 304 I clicked on the wrong message to Reply to All. I was answering Will message on planting store bought potatoes. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Dan Hook To: osalt@teleport.com ; carol busson Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 6:49 AM Subject: Re: (not so) permanent markers >Thank-you Will someone else advised the same thing. I am in Massachusetts >which is dryer (too dry at the moment) than the NW, but I don't need any >diseases in the garden! Beth >-----Original Message----- >From: Will Newman II >To: carol busson >Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org >Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 11:07 PM >Subject: Re: (not so) permanent markers > > >>A word of warning: in truly active soil wooden markers tend to rot. We >>sometimes use 1/8 inch by 1 inch by 8 inch wood markers in beds for farm >>tours. We can't get them through a season. >> >>The miniblinds I talked about, marked with Sharpie pens last 3 to 4 >>years before we have to re-mark them. >> >>As I said before, we mark them with numbers, not names, and keep a log >>of what the numbers mean. >> >>Will Newman II >>CSA at Natural Harvest Farm >>Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust >> >> > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 20 20:34:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18356 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA24707 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:26:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02251; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:26:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02202 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:25:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 1639 invoked from network); 21 May 1999 00:25:30 -0000 Received: from a48-01-33.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.33) (216.26.11.33) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 21 May 1999 00:25:30 -0000 Message-ID: <3744A9F4.5BD2@teleport.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:34:00 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Madsen CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Visiting Pets (was baby-proofing a farm) References: <000e01bea2cf$3af7c940$0100005a@john> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 305 "Hi Will, where is your favorate place to get these seed potatoes? John" >From Irish Eyes (formerly Ronniger's). They are on the web at http://www.irish-eyes.com Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust (OSALT) HEY EVERYBODY!! Our web page is sort of up at www.osalt.org (once you get ther you need to click on "osalt/") From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 26 14:32:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19087 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26703 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA27867; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:21:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.58.198]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27527 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:18:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 708661617 (DYTNB103-26.splitrock.net [209.156.66.72]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA90642 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:18:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199905261818.OAA90642@pimout4-int.prodigy.net> Reply-To: From: "Vincent J McKelvey" To: "CSA List" Subject: when pickup is days away Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:09:18 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 306 Help! Pickup isn't scheduled for another four days, yet the lettuce and radishes are ready today. Should i pick and refrigerate or just let it sit there until pickup day, so as to assure optimum freshness? and one more thing: i think i underplanted snow peas and i'm afraid that i'll only be harvesting a few pounds at a time. do i just divvy up what i've got among members or what? for those of you who sent us good wishes when we got started, i want to report that we have 14 member households and at least three who've expressed strong interest. we had about 12 folks (8 households) out for our first workday on may 15 and they got an amazing amount of work done. (i didn't -- i was too busy giving directions, training, and organizing the food!) nonetheless, it was a very exciting start. thanks for your help. noreen spring run farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 26 14:45:05 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19310 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01304 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA29298; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:36:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from x13.boston.juno.com (x13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28338 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:28:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from brike1@juno.com) by x13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EBKKY4W7; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:27:50 EDT To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:31:10 -0700 Subject: growing for market Message-ID: <19990526.113110.-261573.0.brike1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,6-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: michael j isensee Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 307 Dear fellow CSAers, I am in the process of moving and most all of my belongings have found their way to storage, including all my copies of growing for market. Now I realize I need to send them a change of address card so I can continue to receive my copy! Could someone forward me the address? Oh, I am also looking for the address of Organic Gardening magazine--need to change that address also....Thanks in advance and happy growing! Michael Isensee brike1@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 26 17:06:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA23560 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA01578 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA11065; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:53:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root@mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10896 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:52:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 165.227.137.54 (sa-165-227-137-54.cruzio.com [165.227.137.54]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id NAA25507; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374BEFE8.4BD0@mariquita.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:58:17 +0000 From: Julia Wiley Reply-To: csa@mariquita.com Organization: Mariquita Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: VINCEMCKELVEY@prodigy.net CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: doling out snow peas References: <199905261818.OAA90642@pimout4-int.prodigy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 308 Vincent: We have been troubled by peas in the past: if we had enough plants to produce a pound or more per share, at nearly 200 shares, we would be BURIED in snow (snap, English) peas. So! We have a 'mystery vegetable', which we explain to our members is for the items that are labor intensive to harvest and need to be picked at all the time: peas, cherry tomatoes, squash. Then the different pickup locations take turns for the peas etc. We haven't had any complaints, and it uses up what else you have too much of... Good luck. Julia -- --------------------------------------------------- Mariquita Farm Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables (831)761-3226 e-mail: csa@mariquita.com web site: http://www.mariquita.com P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 --------------------------------------------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 26 21:27:05 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28337 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02084 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:18:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA29043; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:17:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from saturn.ausaid.gov.au (saturn.ausaid.gov.au [202.6.56.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28943 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:16:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: by saturn.ausaid.gov.au; id LAA28470; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:16:12 +1000 (EST) Received: from degas.ausaid.gov.au(202.6.37.150) by saturn.ausaid.gov.au via smap (4.1) id xma028359; Thu, 27 May 99 11:15:52 +1000 Received: from ccMail by degas.ausaid.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 000E50D0; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:15:03 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:13:08 +1100 Message-ID: <000E50D0.005013@ausaid.gov.au> From: Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au (Anton Vikstrom) Subject: HOW MUCH? Cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 309 Gday All I am presently doing a business plan for a CSA in Canberra, Australia (Cool Temperate climate with about 7 months a year without frost). I have a few questions that your wealth of knowledge may help me with how much vegetables are you putting into say a $20 box (the currencies are different but purchasing power parity similar) does it work out as the equivelent as buying from organic grocers? or commercial stupermarkets? - i just want a target to aim for and/ What sort of time are you putting into each share. or to put it another way, how many shares can a single person manage without turning into a zombie and loosing their sense of humour? and/ any experience with alternative products such as, organic bread? homebrew beer? any information would be great. thanks anton PS its nice to be six months ahead/behind, it helps me plan a bit better. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 26 21:30:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28421 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02777 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA29425; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:22:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29182 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:20:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ringo.excite.com ([199.172.152.145]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990527012023.DNYZ17804.ewey@ringo.excite.com> for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:20:23 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: when pickup is days away Message-Id: <927767980.25385.541@excite.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:19:40 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.134 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 310 I would leave the lettuce in the field unless it is about to bolt. Pick the radishes but don't clean them and refrigerate if you have the space. As to the peas-We had that problem last year and just divided what we had among the members. Congrats on getting so many members your first year. Looks like we will have 6 or 7 member families this year which is fine. we have had several very successful work days so far this year and pick-ups don't start until the first thursday in june. I am planning on letting the members pick what they want from a table and see how that goes. Picked the first full qt of strawberries today and bought a 10hp BCS tiller at an auction for $220. Now we have two BCS tillers and a sears front tined last year we had only the sears-whatta life! Hey, check out my new and improved website-no picts (having a problem with them loading correctly) but farm market news and CSA stuff plus loads of links. The hot link resides below my name. tell me what you think Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu May 27 20:41:17 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28756 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA12631 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA20297; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:32:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20219 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:31:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ants.excite.com ([199.172.152.146]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990528003232.HOKO11358.gigi@ants.excite.com>; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:32:32 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org, amrmeb@ime.net, nancyg@rcs.k12.in.us, splunker@aol.com, oeffa@iwaynet.net, Organic4um@aol.com, mckinsdr@muohio.edu, elfwood@erinet.com, savage@alltel.net, lemur-cat@erols.com Cc: coltom@dcr.net, teny10@yahoo.com, abundant@olypen.com, scottr@up.net, wool@willard-oh.com, YSZX29E@prodigy.com Subject: Fwd: USDA Advisory Committee Nominations Message-Id: <927851472.21068.382@excite.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:31:12 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.144 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 311 > From: Mark Lipson > To: BIOTECH-L@cornell.edu > Subject: USDA Advisory Committee Nominations > Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:04:30 -0700 > Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990527150428.0077bfbc@ofrg.org> > > Friends, > > FYI: This is a USDA press release from Tuesday. > > > GLICKMAN SEEKING CANDIDATES FOR BIOTECHNOLOGY ADVISORY COMMITTEE > > > Release No. 0227.99 > > > Media Contact: Andy Solomon (202) 720-4623 > andy.solomon@usda.gov > Public Contact: Jerry Redding (202) 720-6959 > jerry.redding@usda.gov > > GLICKMAN SEEKING CANDIDATES FOR BIOTECHNOLOGY ADVISORY COMMITTEE > > WASHINGTON, May 24, 1999 Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman is seeking > candidates interested in serving on a new USDA Advisory Committee on > Biotechnology. Glickman announced in March that he was creating the Committee > to provide him with information and advice on policy related to the creation, > application, trade, and use of agricultural biotechnology. > > "My goal is for everyone who has a stake in the future of biotech -- > research scientists, social scientists, farmers, industry members, > environmentalists, and consumers -- to be represented on this panel," said > Glickman. "I hope the group can have a frank discussion about some of the > tough agricultural biotechnology issues facing USDA and the American people." > > Some of the topics that the Secretary has identified for the Committee's > early consideration include > > emerging trends in the development of agricultural applications of > biotechnology; > potential effects of industry concentration and consolidation on > farmers; > intellectual property rights and grower autonomy; > consumer perceptions of agricultural biotechnology; > potential effects of biotechnology on environmental quality; > ways to maximize or encourage potential and realized benefits of > biotechnology in different agricultural sectors; and > USDA's role in assuring that farmers have an array of choices for > future agricultural technology and practices. > > USDA encourages and supports the responsible development and utilization > of beneficial new agricultural products, including those produced through > biotechnology, and assures the safety of new products with a science-based > regulatory approach. > > A notice to be published this week in the Federal Register seeks > nominations for qualified candidates. Candidates should have expertise in any > of the range of science and policy issues that the Committee may consider. > USDA is actively seeking nominations of qualified minorities, women, persons > with disabilities and members of low-income populations. Potential candidates > should obtain the Federal Register notice either through the Government > Printing Office Internet website (http://www.gpo.gov) or their local library > prior to submitting nominations Nominations should include a resume, a > statement explaining the candidate's suitability to serve, and a completed > copy of form AD-755. They should be sent within 30 days to Michael > Schechtman, Office of the Deputy Secretary, USDA, 202B Whitten Federal > Building, 14th and Independence Ave., SW, Washington, DC 20250. > > The Secretary will select 25 members for the Committee so as to reflect > the diverse viewpoints about biotechnology policy issues facing USDA. > > # > > > Organic Farming Research Foundation > Mark Lipson, Policy Program Director > ph: 831-426-4006 or -6606; fax: 831-426-6670 > PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 > > Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 28 10:00:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07511 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26089 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA23715; Fri, 28 May 1999 08:50:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root@mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23554 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 08:49:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 165.227.138.209 (sa-165-227-138-209.cruzio.com [165.227.138.209]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id GAA07279 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 06:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374E2FC6.6AC0@mariquita.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 05:55:18 +0000 From: Julia Wiley Reply-To: csa@mariquita.com Organization: Mariquita Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA list Subject: buckets & recipes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 312 Hello, We are starting to sell more flowers at market and wanted to know if any of you has a phone # for a wholesale bucket supplier...thanks ALSO for any of you who 'do' recipes in a newsletter: this is a great link that I use every week: http://food.epicurious.com/e_eating/e02_recipes/enhance_search.html Just type in your vegetable or herb and up come the recipes, ready to copy and paste into your own files.... Julia -- --------------------------------------------------- Mariquita Farm Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables (831)761-3226 e-mail: csa@mariquita.com web site: http://www.mariquita.com P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 --------------------------------------------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri May 28 11:52:25 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10452 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02108 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA02291; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:43:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.59.113]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02205 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:42:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 708661617 (DYTNB110-28.splitrock.net [209.156.67.143]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA131068; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:42:44 -0400 Message-Id: <199905281542.LAA131068@pimout2-int.prodigy.net> Reply-To: From: "Vincent J McKelvey" To: , "CSA list" Subject: Re: buckets & recipes Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:40:32 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 313 thanks, julia! that website is GREAT. i used a couple of suggestions on how to use radishes from the good housekeeping cookbook in this week's newsletter -- in deviled eggs, sauted in butter and sauted with yellow peppers -- and people loved it. i put "radish" in at that site just now and got 119 recipes!! you bet that will be an important resource for us!. noreen spring run farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon May 31 17:09:37 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA22930 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 17:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09180 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 17:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA22953; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:00:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22848 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:58:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EBYQLS6H; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:58:37 EDT To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:56:22 -0400 Subject: OK< I confess.... Message-ID: <19990531.165644.-442071.1.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,10-13,15-16,18-19,21-28 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 314 ......I am doing my first real garden this year. Aside from the 'great rabbit attack' which cost us our cabbage, broccilli, spinach, carrot tops, tomatoes and bell peppers, I have a question. I noticed my corn came up and then didn't want to go any further- some was the result of the rabbit attack, but the rest of it just didn't want to do anything. I used a couple of hybrid sweet varieties- I promise heirloom next year- and did a companion planting with some purple bush beans inbetween the rows. It all started nicely and then nothing. So what can I do to help the second planting do its' thing correctly? Also, what is a good way to fix Nitrogen to the soil..... Oh, and I'll be doing a re-plant here in the next bit. I like to do it by the signs. And we did indeed take care of the rabbit situation- the pies I made were outstanding and got rave reviews. Thanks, Betsy Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 GOaT MILK? http://www.mazdak.com/goats/goatdex.htm Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon May 31 21:58:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA26421 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA04176 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA06003; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:49:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05919 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:48:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool001-max13.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.4.1]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA24870 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 18:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990528081745.009dc900@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 08:17:45 -0700 To: CSA list From: Fred Chambers Subject: Seeking San Diego, CA CSA - Shambala Farms In-Reply-To: <374E2FC6.6AC0@mariquita.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 315 Hello, Anyone have contact info for June Stein Shambala Farms PO Box 3627 Rancho Santa Fe, CA 92067 The US Postal address bounces: "Box closed, return to sender." Any ideas? Fred FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Walnut Alliance is one of many campus and local groups encouraging Cal Poly to explore environmentally responsible uses of campus green spaces. Visit and post at: http://www.regen.org (BWA, SAFER, Regen site that kick's butt!) http://www.csupomona.edu/~vltenbrink/index.html (Victoria's Black Walnut Page) http://www.rokcircle.com/bbs/ (The Wilderness Forum) From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 1 13:59:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08927 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22985 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA21967; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:49:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA21836 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:48:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990601175028.1053.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.211.16.87] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:50:28 PDT Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:50:28 -0700 (PDT) From: jared volpe Subject: CSA's in North America/World To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 316 Hello all, Where can I get information about how many CSA's there are in North America and the World? Thanks, Jared _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 1 22:14:25 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20104 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA14512 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26810; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:05:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26654 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:03:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 2978 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 02:03:50 -0000 Received: from i48-16-42.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO john) (216.26.5.234) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 02:03:50 -0000 Message-ID: <003301beac9c$d078b5c0$0100005a@john> From: "John Madsen" To: "csa csa" Subject: Tillage Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:08:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BEAC62.23599B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 317 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BEAC62.23599B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We are in the prosses of finding a good way to prepair our beds. What type of tilling are most people using. Plow disk, roto tiller, = spader, no till? ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BEAC62.23599B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    We are in the prosses of finding a = good way to=20 prepair our beds.
    What type of tilling are most people = using. Plow=20 disk, roto tiller, spader, no till?
    ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BEAC62.23599B00-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 1 22:23:42 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20185 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA17024 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA27367; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:14:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26869 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:06:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 3695 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 02:06:16 -0000 Received: from i48-16-42.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO john) (216.26.5.234) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 02:06:16 -0000 Message-ID: <003b01beac9d$2753d140$0100005a@john> From: "John Madsen" To: "csa csa" Subject: Flea Beatles! Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:10:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01BEAC62.7A4D2080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 318 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BEAC62.7A4D2080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We are having an outbreak of flea Beatles. There are too many to control = by hand (though thwacking them into an oily container does work). I = spread some dolomite lime out and they don't like that. Any other = suggestions? ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BEAC62.7A4D2080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    We are having an outbreak of flea = Beatles. There=20 are too many to control by hand (though thwacking them into an oily = container=20 does work). I spread some dolomite lime out and they don't like that. = Any other=20 suggestions?
    ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BEAC62.7A4D2080-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 01:59:35 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA23548 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA06770 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 01:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA09751; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:49:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ux9.cso.uiuc.edu (root@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.39]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09700 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:49:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [130.126.26.99] (jakarta-7.slip.uiuc.edu [130.126.26.99]) by ux9.cso.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA27622 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:49:07 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:50:33 -0500 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: John Barclay Subject: CSA-L News and FAQ Update Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 319 1. Digest feature. 2. Responses from last survey. 3. Most Recent FAQ. -------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Digest feature and other useful feature: The CSA-L list may now be obtained in digest format. If you choose to receive CSA-L in digest format you will receive the entire set of messages from the previous day at 2:00am in one single message. The advantage to this is that it keeps your e-mail box uncluttered. The disadvantage is that there is up to a 24 hour turnaround on messages so you may unknowingly repeat what someone else has posted. To receive CSA-L in digest format, send an email addressed to listproc@prairienet.org with no subject line and only SET CSA-L MAIL DIGEST in the body of the message. i.e. To: listproc@prairienet.org From: jbarclay@prairienet.org Subject: ---------------------------- SET CSA-L MAIL DIGEST To turn off digest format, simply send the same message replacing SET CSA-L MAIL DIGEST with SET CSA-L MAIL -------------------------------------------------------------- 2. Responses from last survey: The last survey of CSA-L members asked which other email lists related to CSAs they are subscribed to. There were only a handful of responses so I'm not bothering with a summary. -------------------------------------------------------------- 3. Most Recent Frequently Asked Questions see: http://www.prairienet.org/pcsa/CSA-L/FAQ.html From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 08:14:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26347 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA05339 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20038; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:02:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19974 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:01:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from digger.excite.com ([199.172.152.82]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990602120113.OXPK2244.ewey@digger.excite.com>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 05:01:13 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: madsenj@teleport.com Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Flea Beatles! Message-Id: <928324871.21805.777@excite.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 05:01:11 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.117 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 320 We have found two things work very well. The best is row cover. Put over all affected plants, this keeps the beetles out and also makes the plants grow faster and bigger-take it off a soon as you notice flowers and be sure to have a brick or rock (1lb or heavier) to place about every 2 or 3 feet on the cover's edge so it doesn't fly off in the wind. The other thing you can do is make a yellow sticky trap out od a 2 litre pop bottle. Squirt is the best because of the sceaming yellow lable but any will do if you cover them (paint or a yellow plastic bag). Fill the bottle with water and get the outside sticky (I use tanglefoot but I hear molassas works well too) and place one bottle for every 2 plants. The water heats up in the bottle which is attractive to flea beetles so they go there and get stuck. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 08:35:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26725 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09491 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21026; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:24:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20965 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:24:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from batty.excite.com ([199.172.152.107]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990602122343.OUCG724.fortune@batty.excite.com> for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 05:23:43 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: The Season Starts Message-Id: <928326223.20562.80@excite.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 05:23:43 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.213 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 321 Well, We start pick-ups tomorrow. We will have lots of lettuces, spinach, popcorn, mesculun mix, mondo radishes (they are as bi as beets!) and eggs, not a normal item but eggs sales have been flat as of late so they all get eggs and I get a refigerator back for a few days. They also get strawberries, chives and some fresh herb bundles. I am leaning towards making a big pile of food and letting the members take what they want (this is all on farm pick-up) with the exception of the berries where they will be limited to 1 qt per person with the opportunity to buy more for a discount. I figure letting them take what they want will what they like, besides I have no boxes yet. So far the season has been good-the members have been very active and have given us lots of help and support. Though we have had one member potluck and while we had several folks out not one belonged to the CSA (though we will have another member in 2000 because of the potluck) The lack of members was my fault really-because of the heavy planting schedual I lost track of time and didn't remind anybody about the potluck until a few days before and everyone was going to be elsewhere. I learned and have already started reminding folks about our Solstice party. Next week will be very dicey as all the Boulder Belt CSA farmers are having surgeries -I get my mouth done (periodontal stuff) on Wed and my husband is getting a hernia operation (we may get the Dr to join the CSA in exchange for the surgery ) Since all this occurs on wed and thursday I don't know how we will get the CSA food together (much less get ready for our big Market on Saturday) I guess we will see how understanding they are about us making them miss a week. The good news is that we are getting rain right now (man do we need it!) and almost all the major planting is done and should be done before we all go under the knife and go on our pain vacation. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 09:50:05 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28105 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA25954 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA26060; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:38:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA26012 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:37:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 29937 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 13:37:38 -0000 Received: from a48-01-24.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.24) (216.26.11.24) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 13:37:38 -0000 Message-ID: <375533D1.30F6@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 06:38:25 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jared volpe CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: CSA's in North America/World References: <19990601175028.1053.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 322 I try to keep an updated list for Oregon and SW Washington, but the most comprehensive list I know of is kept by the Biodynamic Gardening and Farming Association. As with any centralized list it is always a little out of date, but still the best I know. They probably have a web site. If someone knows the site address you might post it to all of us. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 10:08:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28488 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29898 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:59:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27577; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:57:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ultra.qni.com (qni.com [209.126.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27532 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:57:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([209.126.31.17]) by ultra.qni.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA21947; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:52:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: by oemcomputer with Microsoft Mail id <01BEACD5.A6467740@oemcomputer>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:55:23 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEACD5.A6467740@oemcomputer> From: Terry Harris To: "'CSA-L@prairienet.org'" Cc: "'nefood-l@sardonyx.tufts.edu'" , CSA West , NE FOOD List Subject: warning for virus Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:55:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 323 Hello CSA-L If you receive an e-mail titled "happy" do not open it for it is a self forwarding virus. Happy.exe is the trojan horse program. It got me and I noticed that it showed up again through CSA-L Good luck to all ... Terry From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 10:13:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28675 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA01243 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA28202; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:03:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27696 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:59:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 4539 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 13:59:36 -0000 Received: from a48-01-24.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.24) (216.26.11.24) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 13:59:36 -0000 Message-ID: <375538F8.6E6A@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 07:00:27 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Madsen CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Tillage References: <003301beac9c$d078b5c0$0100005a@john> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 324 Generally, never turn soil unless the benefits far outweigh the destruction. This is almost never true. In Nature, soil is rarely bare, and soil is rarely turned. When it is it is usually because of something we call "a natural disaster". At Natural Harvest Farm we work soil in two very different stages: The first stage is bringing the soil into balance. Test the soil - nutrients, micronutrients, CEC, pH, percent organic matter, base saturation levels, etc. Determine what is out of balance and what ammendments are needed to bring the soil into balance. Add the ammendments, then till or double dig to distribute the ammendments throughout the soil. Next year, do it again. This may take a number of years, usually at least 2 or 3. During this time you can plant harvestable crops, but focus on balancing the soil. The second stage comes once the soil is in balance, STOP TILLING. Tilling destroys soil. It breaks down soil tilth, increases the loss of nitrogen and the breakdown of organic matter, and kills a great deal of the microlife critical to plant/soil nutrition interchange. When we need to work soil after it is in balance we use a spader, which opens up the soil without turning it over. Keep testing the soil. Test it the same time each year, and send it to the same lab. Usually, once the soil is in balance it can be maintained by adding whatever ammendments are needed by broadcasting them on top of the soil and covering with good compost. In any case, add compost and/or a good organic mulch every year. For meadow plants (most veggies and fruit trees) use a balanced material for mulch (layer a mix of materials as you would for compost, only in thinner layers). This type of ammendment promotes bacterial dominated soil, which these plants prefer. For forest plants (blueberries, cane berries, roses, rhododendrons, etc.) use a high-lignin material (sawdust, wood chips, etc.) which will promote fungal-dominated soils, their preferred environment. In short, emulate Nature, which has been working just fine for quite a few years now. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Syustainable Agriculture Land TWrust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 10:18:41 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28766 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02334 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA28738; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:08:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28678 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:08:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Sympatico.sympatico.ca ([206.172.93.80]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA28816 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990602101845.007115b0@pop1.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1qbem96@pop1.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:18:45 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Hilary Chop Subject: Groundhogs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 325 Any suggestions on detering groundhogs from dining in my garden? Does urine really work? Hilary From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 10:23:53 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28879 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA03528 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:15:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29179; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:13:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29085 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:12:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 8150 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 14:12:55 -0000 Received: from a48-01-24.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.24) (216.26.11.24) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 14:12:55 -0000 Message-ID: <37553C16.7A3E@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 07:13:46 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Madsen CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Questions about your spader References: <009e01beaca1$f237ae00$0100005a@john> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 326 John, See my prior reply today about turning soil. We really like the spader. We have borrowed a 5 foot wide spader from a friend for the last 3 or 4 years. We have run side by side comparisons in past years between the 5 foot spader and a 5 foot rotary tiller of our own. We have heavy clay soil. The soil is unquestionably better when spaded as opposed to tilled. We worked them at the end of the season and cover cropped them over wonter.In the spring the soil is clearly lighter, more open, drains better, retains more organic mattter and can be worked earlier. We just bought a spader of our own (bed sized - 3 feet wide) this season. Our tractor (an international 464) doesn't go slow enough, so we rent a small tractor to run the spader. It works the soil into a very nice bed in 1 or 2 passes - depends on the bed's history. We paid $3,200. from Ferarri Tractor CIE out of California. It was shipped direct to Portland from Italy. We picked it up at the Portland airport. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Syustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 10:29:02 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28977 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04996 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29719; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:18:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29376 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:15:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from derby.excite.com ([199.172.152.144]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990602141443.PCRD724.fortune@derby.excite.com> for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 07:14:43 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Biodynamic URL Message-Id: <928332883.24724.978@excite.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 07:14:43 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.68 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 327 Demeter is the international certifacation body for Biodynamics and the URL is http://www.demeter.net/ Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 10:39:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29174 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07675 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA00743; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:27:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.thestreet.com (smtp.thestreet.com [208.241.190.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00691 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:27:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jherr ([207.38.252.27]) by smtp.thestreet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58593U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:11:29 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990602071956.00f863b4@mail.thestreet.com> X-Sender: Jherr@mail.thestreet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 07:19:59 +0000 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Jeff Herr Subject: Fastest way to adjust PH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 328 Hello all. We are working a new piece of land here and have found that, despite a good lime application two months ago, we are still acidic. We are in western Washington State. Still cool and regular rain. With crops in the ground, how long will it take to adjust the soil PH with some form of top dressing? In other words, how long does it take for the balance to begin shifting? And what form of buffering amendment is fastest acting, organic, and not detrimental to the short-term or long-term health of the soil and its inhabitants? Thanks! -- Jeff The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA 98014 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 10:45:08 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29265 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09205 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01573; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:34:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iu7.wiu.k12.pa.us (root@iu7.wiu.k12.pa.us [206.79.15.19]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01517 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:34:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from horticulture ([206.79.96.50]) by iu7.wiu.k12.pa.us (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07353 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3755425A.2C84@wiu.k12.pa.us> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:40:26 -0400 From: Mark Ohi Reply-To: mohi@wiu.k12.pa.us Organization: cwctc horticulture X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: bd website Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 329 Homepage for BD Farming and Gardening Association is http://www.biodynamics.com/ from Mark Ohi, lurking for a while, gathering good info on gardening. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 11:07:17 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29756 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15832 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03316; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:56:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02986 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:52:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 19599 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1999 14:52:08 -0000 Received: from a48-01-24.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.24) (216.26.11.24) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 1999 14:52:08 -0000 Message-ID: <37554548.5409@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 07:53:04 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeff Herr CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Fastest way to adjust PH References: <3.0.32.19990602071956.00f863b4@mail.thestreet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 330 Jeff Herr wrote: "Hello all. We are working a new piece of land here and have found that, despite a good lime application two months ago, we are still acidic. We are in western Washington State. Still cool and regular rain. With crops in the ground, how long will it take to adjust the soil PH with some form of top dressing? In other words, how long does it take for the balance to begin shifting? And what form of buffering amendment is fastest acting, organic, and not detrimental to the short-term or long-term health of the soil and its inhabitants?" --------------- It must be soil question season! pH is an indirect measure of soil health, as body temperature is an indirect measure of human health: if the soil is balanced, pH will be between 6.0 and 6.5 Simply because pH is between 6.0 and 6.5 does not mean the soil is balanced. Adding calcium may change pH, but not necessarily bring soil closer to balance. You must start with a comprehensive soil test, then ammend the soil based on the results. How much calcium to add, and in what form, and when, can vary depending on what else is going on in the soil. I recommend the soil testing available through Peaceful Valley Farm Supply in Grass Valley, California. Thye offer two soil tests - get them both. The first test can be ordered two ways: with or without an explanatory booklet. The first time you order a test get the booklet. Written by Amigo Contasano, it is the best short course in balancing soil I know of. It will tell you how to interpret the test results, what to add, when and how. In the western valleys we share a mixed blessing: lots of rain. The rain makes is difficult to keep calcium in the soil, so our soils tend to be acidic. Bringing soil into balance while crops are in it is tougher. It will probably be easier to add ammendments after the crop is harvested and before cover crops are planted because getting enough ammendments into the soil to bring it into balance usually means tilling or double digging. Adding lime to the soil in April may be too early in the season - a good deal of it may have been leached out before the microorganisms in the soil could make it available, and your crop wasn't there to use it. Plan to take a few years to get the soil into balance. We always plan on 3 years to bring a new field into production. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 14:03:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03624 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07405 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA17029; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:40:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16940 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:39:13 -0500 (CDT) From: FranksFarm@aol.com Received: from FranksFarm@aol.com (8049) by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dGXEa02587 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <63a0bbe4.2486c5e0@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:37:36 EDT Subject: Re: Tillage To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 331 Hi Will, Great post on tillage or rather lack thereof. I've been much impressed with your comments/outlook. <> It mirrors my own philosophy too. he he Sounds like your place is just the kind of place I'd like my farm to evolve into. I have a lot of work before me though. I'm in south central Kentucky...and the soil is not bad but needs some amendments:) Always love to hear more about machinery labor saving tactics, techniques people like yourself are using. Sources of good quality low priced supplies etc. List comments are always appreciated. The more we share such ideas the better the chance for success for one and all:) Have a great season. Frank From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 2 15:38:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06321 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA04393 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25326; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:27:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from debian (star04342.galstar.com [208.15.43.42]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25244 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:26:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from meta (really [192.168.100.2]) by galstar.com via in.smtpd with smtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:07:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:07:46 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: meta@mail.insnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Meta Bright Star Subject: Any farmers in So. Central USA? Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 332 Hi, I live in Northeast Oklahoma and am looking for CSAs in or around Oklahoma. Have tried several sources, no success. Individuals actually in the South Central USA, please contact me. Thanks all and have a fine summer! Meta See a slide show at: www.galstar.com/~spencer/slides/ From owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Wed Jun 2 17:01:05 1999 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08569 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60344 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165282-280>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:51:47 -0400 Received: from smtp6.jps.net ([209.63.224.103]:56051 "EHLO smtp6.jps.net" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with ESMTP id <165329-283>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:51:07 -0400 Received: from 209.239.196.138 (209-239-208-10.stk.jps.net [209.239.208.10]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17832; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <37559A00.BC3B47F8@jps.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:54:29 -0700 Reply-To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: Doreen Nagle To: asac@agri-associations.org, asfmra@agri-associations.org, cfafca@fox.nstn.ca, erh11@home.com, question@cpma.ca, amandab@nrf.org, ippso@web.net, csae@mackenzie.usask.ca, hq@asae.org, agnic@agnic.org, Sals@rain.org, info@organicfood.com, organic@eatwell.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Permaculture on Indian reservation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01aC-DIAL (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 333 Hi! We are the International Institute of Ecological Agriculture and are also organic farmers. In addition to running a CSA we are certified Permaculture instructors. We have some very exciting classes coming up, including one on the Black Foot Nation Indian Reservation at the foot of Glacier Mountain in Montana. Would you please help us get the word out to your members and volunteers? I am sending probably more information than you need: a blurb that can be used for a newsletter or online mailing, a bio of who we are, and our course descriptions. Please feel free to edit as you like and feel free to link to us at www.permaculture-institute.org Please call me at (415)454-2521 if you have any questions or would like to talk to Dave Blume, our Founder, personally. Thank you so much for your help in getting the word out. Also, if we can send you some flyers to hand out in your office, at meetings, etc. could you please email us dnagle@jps.net to let us know? In exchange for all your help, we will gratefully list you as a sponsor on our program and all our mailings and would be happy to link to you. Thanks, again. Doreen Nagle for the International Institute of Ecological Agriculture NEWSLETTER/WEBSITE BLURB NEW PERMACULTURE COURSES INCLUDES INDIAN RESERVATION Dave Blume, the founder of the International Institute for Ecological Agriculture and a certified Permaculture instructor, is honored to be chosen to lead a Permaculture Design course on the Black Foot Nation Indian reservation in Montana starting August 28th - September 12 th. A fascinating, knowledgeable and inspiring teacher, Blume, in addition to running his own CSA (Community Supported Agriculture project), has taught Permaculture to more than 8500 students in the past decade. Permaculture designs more than agriculture, it also designs livelihoods and lifestyles. Permaculture teaches how to mirror the natural earth patterns in a healthy environment by combining techniques for growing organic food, making shelters, creating energy and encouraging economy; Permaculture considers not just plants but water, trees, wildlife, weather and much more. Other certification courses include: August 1 - 15 at Our Farm in Woodside, California; and in Staatsburg, New York October 18 ? November 1. In addition, other classes plus a monthly tour of Our Farm are available. Whether you want to add Permaculture skills to your already existing business or just use the techniques in your own backyard, this is a very valuable technique to learn. The IIEA is happy to answer your questions personally about any of the courses. Please call 650-365-2993 or fax 650-366-2241. I.I.E.A., 834 West California Way, Woodside, Ca. 94062. Email: permaculture-institute@igc.org or visit www.permaculture-institute.org INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ECOLOGICAL AGRICULTURE Telephone: 1- 650-365-2993 www.permaculture-institute.org A 501(C)3 non-profit organization. 1999 COURSE DESCRIPTIONS 15 DAY PERMACULTURE CERTIFICATION: Whether you want to add Permaculture skills to your already existing landscaping, farming, ranching, environmental, teaching or building business, start a Permaculture business, help communities to feed themselves efficiently, earn a decent income on your own land or just garden and live this lifestyle in your own backyard, this class promises to be life-changing! This is the class where you will learn every facet of Permaculture and ecological agriculture from the best in the field.(Permaculture is a copyrighted word and in order to use the word for your own personal needs, you must be certified). I.I.E.A.s course is the most extensive, indepth, hands-on and personal; after a full day of learning, relaxed evenings often bring even more presentations. The entire group will practice their new skills through the creation of a group Permaculture design on-site. This course is rich enough in material for professionals yet presented in an easily comprehended format for the lay student. Classes this summer are scheduled August 1 - 15 at Our Farm in Woodside, California and at the Black Foot Native American Reservation in Montana, August 28 ? September 12 (see below). This fall, beautiful upstate New York will be the host site, October 18 ? November 1. Registration is limited, as are some scholarships. The full course fee for either course is $1,377 which includes all gourmet organic vegetarian meals, lodging/camping, good vibes and camaraderie. BLACK FOOT NATION RESERVATION TWO WEEK CERTIFICATION: A very rare opportunity! I.I.E.A. is honored to be selected to head this special class. Students will live on the one million acre Black Foot Nation reservation at the foot of Glacier National Park in Montana while learning side-by-side with Native American reservation residents. In addition to I.I.E.A.s founder, Dave Blume, who was certified by Permaculture originator, Bill Mollison -- and is himself a working Permaculture farmer -- students will learn from tribal elders as well as Earnest Callenbach (author of the famed Ecotopia), popular visionary Starhawk, Berkeleys sustainable living architect and straw bale construction expert Bob Theis, as well as certified Permaculturist Larry Korn, who translated Masanobu Fukuokas important work, One Straw Revolution. Aside from covering every facet of Permaculture, this course will additionally teach how to reduce the reservation residents high incidence of diabetes and prepare for the melting off of the glaciers which supply the reservation with water. For each paying student, a Native American reservation resident will be able to attend this important, lifesaving class at no charge. This very special event, to begin August 28, is sure to sell out fast, so please let us know about your interest as soon as possible! Registration is limited, as are some scholarships. The full course fee is $1,377 which includes all gourmet organic vegetarian meals, lodging/camping, good vibes and camaraderie. NEW THIS YEAR! PERMCULTURE FUNDAMENTALS: Due to a big demand from everyone from professionals to backyard gardeners who want to learn or extend their knowledge of Permaculture but dont have the time or the need to become certified , we are now presenting a 6 day jam-packed introduction at the gorgeous Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, September 19 - 24. Students will learn all the basics (but will not have the opportunity to create a group design as in the Certification class) and will be treated to the same high caliber learning experience as in the certification course. The full course fee is $885 and will include lodging as well as gourmet organic meals. BE A FARMER FOR A WEEK: Mixing learning, real farming work and a whole lot of fun, this is Gardening Summer Camp for Adults ? as well as the whole family. Under the sun and on the working I.I.E.A.s Our Farm site in Woodside, California, you will learn by doing ? under the expert guidance of Farmer Dave and his Dad, (both father and son are Ecological Biologists).The pair will walk you through planting, plant care for the growing crop, low cost greenhouse construction, terracing hillsides, harvesting, and post-harvesting handling. There is a large variety of produce grown at Our Farm, including some not found in your local markets. And since its hands-on experience, its much, much more than what youll get from just reading about great gardening. Camp under the stars, eat great organic food, learn a whole lot. Only 4 special sessions are planned June 12 ? 18, July 10 ? 16, August 17-23 and September 11 - 17, so sign up now. $477 for the week . INTRODUCTION TO PERMACULTURE ONE DAY CLASS: Curious? Need more understanding in a quick format? Welcome to our One Day School where you will get a very informed insight and overview of each of the topics covered extensively in our Certification class. Fast-paced, this day is not just lectures but will include an informative and enjoyable tour of Our Farm, the I.I.E.A. site in Woodside, California. Its a bargain at $107, including lunch! Call to sign up for dates throughout the summer: June 6, July 4, September 5. Y2K GARDENING CLASS: No need for hysteria, its just common sense. Since agriculture depends on 1000s of embedded computer chips (commercial irrigation systems, transportation, refrigeration and more) and since most grocery stores only stock about a weeks worth of fresh foods at any one time, any Y2K breakdowns will affect the food supply. In this workshop, you will learn special techniques for creating an extended growing season and how to plan and plant a supply of food that will tide you over -- even if your garden is only a few containers on the fire escape (did you know that a 5 gallon bucket can grow over 100 carrots?). Y2K gardening is something youll want to do every year -- even after the "bug" everyone is talking about passes. Offered only 4 times (June 5, June 26, July 3, July 24) so reserve space for yourself and friends now. $107 includes a fabulous lunch. MONTHLY OUR FARM TOURS: This four hour teaching tour is very indepth, showing techniques and benefits of Permaculture in use at Our Farm, our Community Supported Agriculture project we run in Woodside, Callifornia. Amongst the topics covered are how to control bugs without chemicals and growing crops on a steep hillside. The first Saturday of every month. A sliding scale donation of $5 - $25 is suggested. We will happily make arrangements for groups of 30 or more. ____________________***______________________ We are glad to answer your questions personally about any of our courses. Please call 650-365-2993 or fax 650-366-2241. Course fees can be sent directly to I.I.E.A., 834 West California Way, Woodside, Ca. 94062. Yes, we accept credit cards. Our email address is permaculture-institute@igc.org and web page is www.permaculture-institute.org I.I.E.A PRESIDENT DAVE BLUME IS HAPPY TO SPEAK AT YOUR EVENT OR ORGANIZATION AND IS ALSO AVAILABLE FOR MEDIA INTERVIEWS. PLEASE CALL DOREEN NAGLE AT 415/454-2521 TO ARRANGE. WHO WE ARE / WHAT WE TEACH I.I.E.A. is a 501(C)3 non-profit organization that teaches Permaculture and related topics. I.I.E.A.s mission is to "provide for the human community through research, education and implementation of socially just ecological conserving forms of agriculture as the basis of all sustainable societies." The I.I.E.A. also offers people who have been thinking about going into farming an opportunity to try it before making a fulltime commitment. Through Permaculture, students are shown how the world looks through from the point of view of ecology e.g. how natural systems interconnect and function well together. Permaculture addresses also social concerns such as globalization. Permaculture creates more jobs per acre than other forms of farming; it also keeps local currency in the community as well as producing a local source of food independently. Permacultures effects reach city dwellers by teaching how to grow the maximum fruits and vegetables in small yards as well as teach small nations to feed themselves while replenishing their devastated soil. As a permaculture concept, the I.I.E.A. also runs Our Farm, a Community Supported Agriculture Project (CSA) that minimizes the distance between the consumer and the food producer. The shareholder/consumer deals directly with the local farmer. In addition, CSAs provide convenient sites for teachers to bring students of all ages to learn about biology firsthand. Dave Blume, I.I.E.A President, has taught Permaculture, alternative building, ecological farming, alternative fuels and energy production to over 8500 people during the past 3 decades. An Ecological Biology and Biosystematics major at San Francisco State University, during the energy crisis of the 70s Blume started the American Homegrown Fuel Co., an educational organization producing alcohol fuel. He was asked to create a 10 part series based on his workshop for PBS. Blume was also hired by NASA to work on a solar self-sufficient energy/sewage treatment/desalinization plant in the Virgin Islands. He has taught alternative building techniques at Mother Earth News Eco Village and edible mushroom cultivation in the agricultural wasteland of the Nauhautl people of Mexico. A consultant for a wide variety of people including foreign governments, individual farmers and food processors, Blume has also designed student study centers on sensitive ecological sites. While serving on the Board of the Committee for Sustainable Agriculture, Blume also served as the Executive Director of the 1600-acre Hidden Villa Farm and Wilderness Perserve in Los Altos Hills; in one year he turned that Farms bank account, which was $250,000 in the red, to a million dollar balanced budget. In 1994, Dave founded the Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) farm, Our Farm in Woodside, California. Delegations from China, Cuba, Japan, Croatia, India, Korea, Canada, Lithuania and dozens of U.S. cities have visited Our Farm to study its model. He has been certified by and has taught with Bill Mollison, the originator of Permaculture. As President of the International Institue for Ecological Agriculture, Blume has personally trained hundreds of students in Permaculture. Earnest Callenbach is the well-known author of the popular Ecotopia and Ecotopia Emerging. Ecotopia embodies a Permaculture mindset. Callenbach lectures fulltime all over the world. Larry Korn: Also trained and Certified by Bill Mollison in 1983, Korn is the well-known translator of Masanobu Fukuokas work, One Straw Revolution. When not traveling with Fukuoka personally, Korn works as a Permaculture Designer and Landscaper. Bob Theis is one of a handful of truly experienced straw bale designers in the world. A Berkeley architect who focuses on sustainable planning, design and building, he has pioneered new developments in straw bale construction under special conditions, including the terrain and climate of Mongolia. Theis has also been trained and Certified by Mollison. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 09:14:51 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21969 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA20820 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19913; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:01:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root@mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19797 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:00:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 165.227.129.95 (sa-165-227-129-95.cruzio.com [165.227.129.95]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id FAA18868; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 05:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37560D5E.CB6@mariquita.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 05:06:38 +0000 From: Julia Wiley Reply-To: csa@mariquita.com Organization: Mariquita Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allan Balliett CC: CSA list Subject: Re: CSA Quesion: Washing for Distribution References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 334 Here is an article my husband (the CSA farmer and occasional author around this farm) wrote for our newsletter in early May. Yes, we always wash our produce! Yesterday only the leeks weren't in a bag. We find we lose customers if their stuff gets to them wilted. If any of you has an alternative to the plastic, please let me know! thanks. Julia Post Production Handling by Andy We've had questions about our use of plastic bags. I don't enjoy buying the bags any more than you enjoy throwing them away. I'm not committed to the plastic bags per se but I do want to keep the produce fresh for you. My fear is that for want of a 2 cent bag an 80 cent bunch of kale will arrive wilted. Then instead of being applauded for saving a bag I'll be criticized for providing poor produce. I've had the opportunity to watch the organic food business grow tremendously since the mid-seventies. At that time those of us who grew organically were commonly thought of in the produce industry as being a bunch of dope addled hippies, and our piles of wilted greens and thrashed looking lettuce in the natural food stores for high prices did little to improve our image. I see now that one of the most pressing problems in the industry early on was the manner that the produce was handled after it left the fields. The plants were grown with love and harvested with care but as an industry we were outside the loop. We didn't have access to good refrigeration like the big Salinas growers did. The individual organic farms were too small to have good hydro-coolers or on-site refrigerators. The organic food stores were too small to have refrigerated trucking. At times our interest in recycling took priority over our business sense. We shipped product to markets in used boxes that couldn't make the trip. When the box that carried the organic produce failed, the whole organic program failed because the produce arrived mangled and hot. What good is planting with a good heart, using no chemicals and all the rest if no one will buy the vegetables? Now the organic business is bigger. We've begun to learn anything we can from the bigger producers. And some of the companies in the produce business entered the organic arena. Organic farmers are now well-versed in the "cold chain." We know how we have to meet the right temperature and humidity requirements for our crops to survive the post harvest handling. Julia and I put in a small walk-in cooler at our house. We move the produce from field to wash tank promptly. We bag the product up inside the cooler at 34 degrees so that it stays as cold as it can and we don't load the truck until we are ready to go. I'm willing to try and do anything to keep your produce in good shape until you can use it. If anyone has any ideas about how we can reduce the costs of packaging I'm all ears; but we have to maintain the good quality of the produce. The organic industry is more mature now than it was. As an industry we're as sober as they come. There's no room for farmers who want to farm with a hoe in one hand and a joint in the other. It's big business now and I can begin to see the day when organic practices will be the convention. That's the good news for the environment and for the customer, but it's not necessarily good news for the small farmer. Now, instead of competing against large conventional growers for the market share, we smaller farms must compete against large organic growers as well. The CSA program makes an end run around the large distribution networks that do not serve local small farmers or consumers well. In changing our focus to deliver more directly to the consumer we cannot forget the lessons learned about the value of good packaging, the need to appropriately pre-cool the produce, or the need to minimize temperature changes. The bags work to maintain humidity so the produce doesn't wilt. In a store they put a spray system in place and constantly spray or hose the food off to maintain humidity, a practice which accelerates rot and breakdown. We try to combine items in a bag when we can to conserve bags if we can do so without damaging the produce. We can't reuse the bags we send you without running afoul of the health department. We hope you can reuse them. -- --------------------------------------------------- Mariquita Farm Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables (831)761-3226 e-mail: csa@mariquita.com web site: http://www.mariquita.com P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 --------------------------------------------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 09:25:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22158 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23053 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20651; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:13:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20609 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:13:32 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com (582) by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dGXSa02105 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:12:34 EDT Subject: washing produce To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 335 How do you feel about this yourself and what do you know about how other CSAs handle washing produce for shares? We generally don't wash produce, except root crops that are especially muddy, etc. We do, however, plunge vegetables like lettuce and greens into ice cold water after harvest, when field heat is an issue. On days like today, for example, where it's only 9:00 am and already feels like it's about 90 degrees outside, no matter how early in the morning you harvest lettuce it would benefit from a quick water cool-down. We make sure to let our members know that produce has just been rinsed and not actually washed. Heidi Lewis Community Supported Organic Farm Coalition Fredericksburg, VA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 12:22:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26352 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00138 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04195; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:10:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from adams.berk.net (IDENT:root@adams.berk.net [205.230.140.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03904 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:07:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (max-2-gb-117.bcn.net [208.238.86.117]) by adams.berk.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA07656; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:08:04 -0400 From: "David I." To: "Allan Balliett" Cc: Subject: Re: CSA Quesion: Washing for Distribution Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:10:12 -0400 Message-ID: <01beaddb$8f410a40$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 336 For the first six years of this C.S.A. ['87-'92] produce was not washed and they got by on the initial enthusiasm for the project. As the membership changed and the project moved out of the pioneer phase, expectations changed. When I took over in '93 there was no overt demand for washing but I determined that we had to get field heat out of the produce as fast as possible so we started washing. There was in immediate improvement in the distribution room atmosphere among sharers as well as a lengthening of the shelf life of our product which in turn results in less being thrown away which again increases sharer satisfaction and therefore retention. This was a major factor in our increasing retention from 65 - 70% to 85-90%. We do not wash winter stores after thanksgiving, they keep better that way. Like anything, to be successful the wash operation should be set up well. Get the food bank harvest video from C.S.A. Works. At this point it seems to me penny-wise and pound foolish not to wash, it makes for a cleaner distribution room also. Three of us harvest and wash for 100 on Tuesday and 85 on Friday and if we hustle two can do it. Yours David Inglis Mahaiwe Harvest C.S.A. Housatonic MA. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 13:24:57 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27735 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA15923 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA09311; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:12:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09208 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:11:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jps.net (209-142-48-83.stk.jps.net [209.142.48.83]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15596 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37564B92.ED4A0A8B@jps.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 09:32:04 +0000 From: Richard Roth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Bags and Boxes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 337 Lately I have been doing way with both bags and Boxes for my CSA members leafy greens and root crops. Members pick up at the local farmers market. Produce goes from the wash table direct to the bed of the flatbed truck, onto drop cloths which I then wrap around the piles of food and hose down. The produce stays cool and humid, even in our valley summer heat. I also drape damp cloth over the boxed fruits or the individual boxes I deliver, to keep them cool. Colorful prints keep the table or bed of my truck attractive while hiding and protecting the vegetables. I still provide bags for members to stash their share in, but am thinking about suggesting the use of damp canvas bags. The cloths are easily washed. Anyone else doing anything like this? -- Richard Roth rfarm 1318 Bruce Street Chico, CA 95928 Ph:(530) 895-1672 . From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 13:25:19 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27757 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16049 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA09418; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:13:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09237 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:11:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from speedy.excite.com ([199.172.152.78]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990603171110.TUTJ2227.kuku@speedy.excite.com>; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:11:10 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org, oeffa@iwaynet.net, YSZX29E@prodigy.com Subject: Fwd: USDA SOLICITING INPUT FOR WTO Message-Id: <928429868.10860.66@excite.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 10:11:08 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.179 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 338 > From: T4shea@aol.com > To: Ban-GEF@lists.greenbuilder.com, katmando@inlink.com, biotech-L@cornell.edu, > gflora@iatp.org, GreensSTL@aol.com, gpusa@igc.org, > ltaylor@newmanbronson.com, jponzi@info.csd.org, pocket@stlnet.com, > MSPLATZ@prodigy.net > Subject: USDA SOLICITING INPUT FOR WTO > Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:57:45 EDT > Message-ID: > > List of public sessions is at bottom. Starting June 4th!! > This is a great opportunity for organic activists to attend and > express their concerns about GE issues, food irradiation, labeling > issues, rBGH and the national organic standards. > Debbie > > USDA SOLICITING LOCAL INPUT FOR WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION NEGOTIATIONS > Both USDA and the Office of the US Trade Representative (USTR) will hold = > 11=20 > public listening sessions in July (including sessions in Vermont and=20 > Delaware) to solicit public comments, outline general approaches, and sha= > re=20 > ideas about critical trade issues, such as market access, export subsidie= > s,=20 > tariff reductions, internal support, state trading enterprises, labor iss= > ues,=20 > natural resources issues, environmental issues, and trade concerns relati= > ng=20 > to products using new technologies. The advice of farmers, ranchers,=20 > processors, exporters, and consumers will be critical in establishing US=20 > agricultural trade objectives and goals for the upcoming WTO Ministers'=20 > Meeting in Seattle in late November, and for the ensuing WTO trade=20 > negotiations. > =20 > In order to appear before the USDA-USTR panel, interested persons must=20 > register with their State Departments of Agriculture for the regional=20 > sessions. Written questions and comments will be accepted in writing fro= > m=20 > those individuals who cannot attend the listening sessions. Written=20 > comments must be received no later than July 26 and can be e-mailed to:=20 > agsec@usda.gov,or mailed to: US Department of Agriculture, Trade Policy=20 > Comments, Mail Stop 9920, 1400 Independence Avenue, SW, Washington, DC=20 > 20250-9920. > =20 > For more information, contact Marlene Phillips, Foreign Agricultural Serv= > ice=20 > Outreach Office, at (phone) 202-720-0103 or phillipsms@fas.usda.gov. > Also, check the Foreign Agricultural Service (FAS) Home Page at:=20 > http://www.fas.usda.gov. Look under "Upcoming Events". > http://www.fas.usda.gov/itp/wto/sessions.html > > Schedule of Sessions: > > Winter Haven,Florida* > > *June 4 > Nora Mayo=20 > HallWill Bussey > Florida Dept. of=20 > Food and Agriculture > busseyw@doacs.state.fl.us=A0 (850) 488-3022 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > St. Paul, Minnesota* > North Dakota > South Dakota > Wisconsin > > June 7 > Holiday Inn, > St. Paul East > MinnesotaDarla Riley > Minnesota Dept.=20 > of=A0 Agriculture(651) 282-5140 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Memphis,Tennessee* > Georgia > Alabama > Kentucky > N. Carolina > S. Carolina > Mississippi > Arkansas > > June 16 > Agri-Center > InternationalEric Maupin > Tennessee Dept. of Agriculture(615) 837-5160 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Indianapolis, Indiana* > Ohio > Michigan > Illinois > W. Virginia > > June 24 > Indiana State Fair=20 > Julia Wickard > Indianapolis Dept.=20 > of Agriculture(317) 232-8778 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Sacramento, California* > Hawaii > Arizona > > June 29 > California Dept. of Food and Agriculture Auditorium > Marjorie Beazer > CA. Dept. of Food and Agriculture > mbeazer@cdfa.ca.gov (916)=A0 654-0462 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Pullman, Washington* > Idaho > Oregon > Alaska > > June 30TBDLisa Schumaker > Washington Dept.=20 > of Agriculture(360)=A0 902-1926 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Austin, Texas* > Oklahoma > Louisiana > New Mexico > > July 8 > The Texas State Capitol > Dawn DeBerry > Texas Dept. of Agriculture(512) 475-1615 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Des Moin es, Iowa* > Missouri > Kansas > Nebraska > > July 12 > TBDJoan Kiernan > Iowa Dept. of Agriculture(515) 281-5323 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Burlington, Vermont* > New York > Maine=20 > Massachusetts > New Hampshire > Connecticut > Rhode Island > > July 19 > TBD > Theresa Doyle(802) 828-2430 > 7/19 BURLINGTON, VT. > =20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Bozeman, Montana* > Wyoming > Colorado > Nevada > Utah > > July 23 > TBD > Montana Dept. of Agriculture(406) 444-3144 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Newark, Delaware* > New Jersey > Pennsylvania > Virginia > Maryland > > July 23 > University of Delaware > Brenda Minor > Delaware Dept. of Agriculture > (302)=A0 739-4811 > > * Indicates the states where the regional sessions will be held. > Participants wishing to speak before the WTO Panel should register with t= > he > state department of agriculture indicated with a *. > Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 13:28:17 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27845 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16782 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA09585; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:15:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA09532 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:15:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906031715.MAA09532@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 447763519; Thu, 03 Jun 1999 17:15:22 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "David I." , "Allan Balliett" Cc: Subject: Re: CSA Quesion: Washing for Distribution Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:08:07 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 339 We rinse particularly muddy stuff off but we avoid thorough washing for a couple of reasons: 1. To wash it so clean that it is ready to eat seems risky. Dunking, which is the fastest way to wash, will expose one to possible cross-contamination (by sand and/or microbes) of produce dunked later. Spraying to full clean is really time-consuming. By leaving things a little dirty, our members are motivated to rinse it well at home. If it was "almost clean" they would be less likely to do so. 2. There is evidence to suggest that dunking hot produce in cold water can actually drive microbes, if present, into the cells of the veggies. Spraying to chill is a safer option. We have found that our members are not troubled by the need to clean their produce. Some have mentioned it, but noone, to our knowledge anyway, has quit or not returned the next year over it. Many (when the subject has come up), including restaurant shareholders, have indicated that it is fine to clean their own veggies. "That's our job" several folks have said. We tell them that they are washing off sand and no chemicals. This seems to please them. Some leafy stuff, does get wilty on a hot day. Our experience, and that of our members who have commented, is that the freshness allows the greens (the most likely thing to look wilted) to perk back up very soon after refrigeration. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 14:47:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29685 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09348 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15270; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:34:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15138 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:32:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 2279 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 18:32:55 -0000 Received: from a48-01-44.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.44) (216.26.11.44) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 18:32:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3756CA89.B48@teleport.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 11:33:48 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Andersen CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: So what is a spader? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 340 Sue Andersen wrote: "How's a spader work? What's it look like? Will it turn in a cover crop and incorporate compost? Does it leave you with a good enough seedbed for fine seeded crops? What HP does it require? Where do you get 'em?" A spader looks a lot like a rotary tiller, but instead of rotating "tines" it has "spades" on a double cam mounting. The spades look like small shovel blades - shaped like the Heinz food company shield in their logo - and move in a mostly up and dowm motion, with a little tilt at the bottom of the stroke. The effect is like pushing a shovel (hence the name shove-l) straight into the ground, rocking the handle back and forth, then drawing the shovel back out. All without turning the soil over. The action opens up compacted soil and allows air and water in, while doing minimal damage to soil organisms and microlife. It won't "turn in" a cover crop, but it will chop it up some and push some of it down into the soil, where it will break down better then sitting on top. It will incorporate compost, as loose material on top of the soil falls into the openings made as the spader travels along the soil bed. It will make a pretty fine seedbed if you make 2 or 3 passes, but I caution you to find better ways to plant fine seeded crops, as pulverizing the soil into a fine seedbed is inherently very destructive to the soil. We work the bed to baseball-to-golfball sized pieces (there is, of course a lot of smaller stuff mixed in), then plant into the soil. For fine seeds we make a grove 2-3 inches wide, fill it with a soil mix (much like our starting mix), mix the seeds with sand and spread that into a groove in the soil mix in the trench. The horsepower required depends on the spader (size) and your soil (how hard). Ours is 3 feet wide, with 4 shovels about 6 inches wide at the top and 4 inches wide at the bottom. It requires 20-22 HP. You can get them as walk-behind (probably 8-15 HP) or standard 3-point implements. We got ours from Farrari Tractor CIE in California. This is a one-man operation, I think. We met him first at the Ecological Farming Conference in California years ago. I think he still goes there every year. We've seen him at other ag events, too. He is very active on the west coast. I imagine he would work with anybody in the country. He was very accomodating with us and we recommend him highly. Good growing, Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust www.osalt.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 14:59:45 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00008 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13069 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16504; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:47:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from debian (star04342.galstar.com [208.15.43.42]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16386 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:46:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from meta (really [192.168.100.2]) by galstar.com via in.smtpd with smtp id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:36:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:36:13 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: meta@mail.insnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Meta Bright Star Subject: Organic food (session) Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 341 Thank you for providing this information. Below is a copy of the letter I sent today in response. I am making it available to the list for people to cut and paste, or consider, as I know many are pressed for time during this busy season. I wrote:> >Please include this letter as my statement concerning irradiated foods, labelling issues, etc. for the upcoming public input seesions on food and farming practices as USDA SOLICITING LOCAL INPUT FOR WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION NEGOTIATIONS, Thank you. > >Dear Agricultural Personnel: > I am fifity years old...and I have tried several good health food diets over the years, with the last >government recommended daily allowance pyramid being the best for overall good health practice. >Over these years, there were many, many times that I thought I was doing the right things in regards to >eating well. Some of these things really only made me feel less bad...like the higher nutrient foods such as avacados, bananas, fish and whole multigrain breads. > >A few months ago, I began to order food from a biodynamic farm...over one thousand miles from my home. >The shipping costs were very high. But, the food was truly worth it by far. I am actually feeling healthier most days than I ever have in my life. And as I said, I often believed that the different approaches to nutrition were very good, so the placebo effect, I think, is not in effect here when I say that food grown in great soil, without pesticides, without irradiation is the best of all worlds. > >Whenever and wherever this approach can be made, I heartily recommend it. I understand that this is not always a practical approach...but well worth any extra effort, or expense to the consumer. I think more people will be less likely to over eat, having not to search in vain for nutrients needed to thrive, as an added bonus. > >I am not wealthy, but I will spend on good wholesome food. > >Thank you again, > >Meta Bright Star >Tulsa, Oklahoma > See a slide show at: www.galstar.com/~spencer/slides/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 15:00:19 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00022 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13279 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16418; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:47:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16353 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:46:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 7416 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 18:46:35 -0000 Received: from a48-01-44.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.44) (216.26.11.44) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 18:46:35 -0000 Message-ID: <3756CDBC.59F@teleport.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 11:47:29 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BRateaver@aol.com CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Fastest way to adjust PH References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 342 Bargyla Rateaver wrote: "Again, it is necessary to UNDERSTAND about soil. Just getting isolated answers does not help much, esp if you intend to stay with growing in soil. I felt a little guilty about not saying more, when there is so much info in this house, so I will just point out a few things, and hope against hope that someone will believe. I looked up the index in Primer, under lime, and found these headings: effect on soil pH deeper if compostadded, pg 52 has 2 roles in soil pf 37 lasts in soil 3-5 yrs, pg 38 may be needed even in alkaline soil, pf37 may harm tropical legumes 37 must be well mixed into soil 38 organic matter can substitute for it 37 same as chalk 36 slaked, hyudrated 37 too mcuh causes leaf yellowing, iron deficiency, 36 Under heading of Limestone: dolomitic contains also magnesium carbonate 36 for dusting potato cut surface for watercress soil 235 ground 6, 36, 280 in compost pile 51 in mulch to repel rodents 102 mistakenly added to adjust acidity 14 too much destroys fungi 14 Really and truly, you should read Arden Andersen's book: Life and Energ in Agriculture. You could read it in one evening--you probably won't sleep all night thinking about what you have read. It's just a small book. Then there is his other ag book, Science in Agriculture.--the Professional's Edge. There is SO much interesting stuff to know--it is just a dirty shame people are stuck with the rot the farm advisor's give out. There is a whole world of good info to use, and esp if you are in the farming life, it is so valuable to have that knowledge in your head. After so many many years of trying, I get so discouraged. Here I am soon to die, being already into the 80's, and it seems to me I have not made even a dent." For those of you who don't know Bargyla Rateaver, who I first met at an Ecological Farming Conference in California and have had the opportunity to talk with a few times since, she is co-author of "The Orgnaic Method Primer" - one of my most valuable reference books. I highly recommend it. Some other books I would suggest are well worth reading: "Soil Fertility - renewal and preservation" by Ehrenfreid Pfeiffer, "The Albrecht Papers, Volume II - Soil Fertility and Animal Health" by William Albrecht, edited by Charles Walters, Jr., and "Weeds - control without poisons" by Charles Walters, Jr. I believe all four are available through Acres, USA in Metarie, Louisiana. Good growing, Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust www.osalt.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 21:39:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09252 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13458 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA13549; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:27:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web604.mail.yahoo.com (web604.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.168]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA13468 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:27:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990604012613.3423.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.211.20.74] by web604.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:26:13 PDT Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:26:13 -0700 (PDT) From: jared volpe Subject: Re: CSA Quesion: Washing for Distribution To: CSA list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 343 Can we start a discussion about Health Department issues and whether or not certification (organic/biodynamic) is an issue at your farms? --- Julia Wiley wrote: > The bags work to maintain humidity so the produce > doesn't wilt. In a > store they put a spray system in place and > constantly spray or hose the > food off to maintain humidity, a practice which > accelerates rot and > breakdown. We try to combine items in a bag when we > can to conserve bags > if we can do so without damaging the produce. We > can't reuse the bags we > send you without running afoul of the health > department. We hope you can > reuse them. > -- > --------------------------------------------------- > > Mariquita Farm > Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty > vegetables > (831)761-3226 > e-mail: csa@mariquita.com > web site: http://www.mariquita.com > P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 > > --------------------------------------------------- > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 3 22:46:43 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10104 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:46:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA26630 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA17921; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:36:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from whidbey.whidbey.com (ns.whidbey.com [204.94.52.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17833 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 21:35:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [204.94.52.190] (b4-52-116.whidbey.com [204.94.52.116]) by whidbey.whidbey.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06892 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Petersons Family Subject: plastic bags Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 344 In addition to CSA and Farmer's Market, we do a small salad green business locally. I found a supplier of cellophane bags and use them for anything I bag now. They're biodegradable, keep produce well, and are reuseable for a few times. My supplier is Pak-Sel in Portland, OR. Their # is 1-800-635-2247, FAX (503) 771-9413. Cellophane is more expensive than plastic; but that's a song we all know. For CSA produce, we rinse to cool and then put wet veggies in baskets. They stay fresh the few hours before pick-up unless it's a really hot day (when its hot, I put them upright in a tub with an inch of water at the bottom until members arrive). If a member is expecting to be late, I'll drape a clean, wet burlap bag over their share basket. Wet fabric is effective. Molly From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 4 16:19:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25560 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09965 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21437; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:08:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from vm4-ext.prodigy.net (vm4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.59.137]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21342 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:07:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 708661617 (DYTNB111-11.splitrock.net [209.156.67.172]) by vm4-ext.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA41680; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:07:06 -0400 Message-Id: <199906042007.QAA41680@vm4-ext.prodigy.net> Reply-To: From: "Vincent J McKelvey" To: , "Petersons Family" Subject: Re: plastic bags Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:05:38 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 345 thanks for the info, molly, but a little bit more please on cellophane. what IS it made from? thanks. noreen spring run farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 5 17:35:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA10694 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA00221 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26245; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 16:25:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26173 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 16:24:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool045-max10.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.3.145]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA10202; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990605083819.00840100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 08:38:19 -0700 To: From: Fred Chambers Subject: Hemp Production Begins in Some States, Still Barred in Kentucky In-Reply-To: <199906050700.CAA25621@firefly.prairienet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 346 By Janet Patton, Lexington Herald-Leader, Ky. Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News Jun. 5--Bluegrass farmers' dream of growing U.S. hemp finally might be coming true, but not in Kentucky. North Dakota, spurred by the first-year profits of neighboring Canadian farmers, legalized industrial hemp production in April. But Hawaii will probably get it into the ground faster. On July 7, Gov. Benjamin Cayetano will sign a bill authorizing 10 acres of variety trials. "We're hoping to put seed in the ground in September," said Hawaii state Rep. Cynthia Thielen. "I think it's quite embarrassing that Kentucky's so far behind in this. ... Kentucky can watch our dust." At least 12 other states, including Tennessee, have passed or are considering pro-hemp legislation. Ironically, this has happened in no small part because of the work of Kentucky hemp activists, whose efforts to get legal permission to grow the crop have made little progress in their own state. "I cannot understand why a state with your history in hemp won't consider this crop," Thielen said. Hawaii is looking to replace idle sugar plantations with hemp fields that could eventually fuel an ethanol plant. Through some high-profile legal wrangling, sometimes involving actor Woody Harrelson, and constant Internet efforts, the Kentucky Hemp Growers Cooperative Association has begun to make a name for itself nationally and at home. It is a measure of the group's efforts that yesterday the Woodford County Chamber of Commerce, with Mayor Fred Siegelman's blessing, sponsored the ribbon-cutting at the new Kentucky Hemp Museum in Versailles. Lexington Mayor Pam Miller will give the opening address at the co-op's annual meeting this month in Fayette County, said Joe Hickey, the association's executive director. Hickey and association President Andy Graves have testified before state legislatures in Oregon and Missouri. Winchester farmer Gale Glenn sits on the North American Industrial Hemp Council board. Glenn has been very vocal about advocates of legalizing marijuana who try to hitch onto hemp's bandwagon. "They are our worst enemies," Glenn has been quoted as saying. "If marijuana didn't exist, hemp would be growing here on hundreds of thousands of acres." Hemp advocates strive to put as much distance between hemp and marijuana as possible. "There's not a tie-dyed T-shirt in the group," said James Woolsey, the former CIA director who now lobbies for the hemp council. He blames the lack of action in most states on "inertia and public relations." That is what the Kentucky activists have worked hard to change, and they have found many receptive to their message. But at home, the hemp movement has been slow to grow. "I don't know of any legislator yet who's said they were willing to put forth a bill," said Rep. Joe Barrows, D-Versailles. "I think it would be appropriate for us to do a little research ourselves, a controlled experimental effort." Of Thielen's criticism, he said, "We're not any different than most places. The first reaction is the understandable confusion between hemp and marijuana. I don't think we've gotten entirely past that point. There's still a real reluctance in law enforcement." The problem for all states has always been the Drug Enforcement Administration. The DEA reading of the law is that hemp is marijuana and therefore is illegal to grow because it contains THC, the drug that produces marijuana's high, said Bud Scholtz, hemp council chairman. But a recent letter to Thielen from a DEA administrator appears to soften that position. "The DEA is currently reviewing the security regulations I as part of the review, DEA will consider setting the level of THC content for I hemp that may be grown for industrial purposes," wrote Gregory Williams, chief of DEA operations on April 23. "This review is based on the premise that public and commercial interest may be better served if the cultivation of Cannabis sativa L., hemp is authorized by the appropriate Federal and State entities." Discussions, which have included DEA drug czar Barry McCaffrey, are apparently at a delicate stage. "We're making good progress," Scholtz said. "We had talks with General McCaffrey recently, but I don't want to make a comment on that right now." The review is still in progress, DEA spokeswoman Rogene Wade confirmed yesterday. "The DEA is reviewing the security issue that would be associated with the manufacture (of hemp)," she said. The agency is looking at the types of data that would be required for licensure, she said. It is not actually illegal to grow hemp (or marijuana, for that matter); you just need a federal license to do it. But, say hemp activists, you can't get a license. That's what states ready to grow hemp hope will change soon. The fight in other states has not been easy. In Hawaii, Thielen said, the police lobby tried to kill the bill. "Practically all of the legislators were not aware of the distinction between the plants," she said. In Oregon, pro-hemp legislation was killed out of "ignorance," said state Rep. Floyd Prozanski. In Oregon, hemp could become a renewable source of paper pulp. "In some states, they know it's rope, not dope. Other states are pigeonholed. The DEA's going to have to come around." There are further signs that may be happening. The DEA stopped arguing that hemp cannot be distinguished in the field from marijuana. "That's been pretty much shot down," Scholtz said. It's grown in 33 countries, including Canada, largely without law enforcement difficulties, he said. Manufacturers have found plenty of uses for hemp -- the Kentucky Hemp Museum displays dozens of modern products ranging from feed to clothing to fiberboard to lip balm. "You can eat it, wear it and live in it," said Jake Graves, the Fayette County farmer and chairman of the Kentucky Hemp Museum board. Whether there would be any money in it is something economists do not agree on. One University of Kentucky study found there would be little market for a Kentucky-grown product in a market flooded with cheap, foreign hemp. But another UK study last year estimated Kentucky farmers could make up to $600 an acre. Canadian farmers are clearing $300 an acre in profit, said North Dakota Rep. David Monson, who sponsored that state's bill. Monson pointed out that until the federal government lets them, North Dakota farmers can't grow hemp either. "I'd say there's a fairly decent possibility that it could happen next year," Monson said. "North Dakota is behind that all the way from the grass-roots to our governor." Now, he said, other states need to get involved. "If every state would do it, the federal government couldn't ignore it," he said. "Every time a state introduces legislation, it goes a step farther." WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? Is there a difference between hemp and marijuana or is it all cannabis sativa? "Yes, there's a difference," said Scott Smith, UK agriculture associate dean, "in terms of the active ingredient, THC. "Botanically, they're the same species of plant ... but very different varieties." Industrial hemp contains less than 1 percent THC, while marijuana varieties typically have 5 to 20 percent. There are also differences in how hemp is grown and harvested. So, no matter how much you eat or smoke hemp products, you can't get high. ----- Visit Kentucky Connect, the World Wide Web site of the Lexington (Ky.) Herald-Leader, at http://www.kentuckyconnect.com/heraldleader (c) 1999, Lexington (Ky.) Herald-Leader. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News. For more information, visit the NewsHound website at http://www.newshound.com or send an email to speak@hound.com. FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Walnut Alliance is one of many campus and local groups encouraging Cal Poly to explore environmentally responsible uses of campus green spaces. Visit and post at: http://www.regen.org (BWA, SAFER, Regen site that kick's butt!) http://www.csupomona.edu/~vltenbrink/index.html (Victoria's Black Walnut Page) http://www.rokcircle.com/bbs/ (The Wilderness Forum ***ON HIATUS***) From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 5 23:27:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA13891 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA17265 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA09361; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:17:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pws.gamewood.net (pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09303 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:16:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fox.gamewood.net (0@fox.gamewood.net [206.229.248.28]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA00649 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:14:50 -0400 Received: from pavilion (pts0301.gamewood.net [206.229.249.64]) by fox.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA16323 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:14:49 -0400 Message-ID: <006501beafe4$93354a20$40f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "CSA list" Subject: new member of CSA list Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:19:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01BEAFA9.E5D18540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 347 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BEAFA9.E5D18540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just thought I'd let the list know that I eagerly await the good info = that has been passed on through this list. . Right now I have about 2000 = sq. feet of 45ac.(the rest in woods and weeds) planted in some veggies = and covercrops. It may not sound like much but my full time job is as a = truck driver, and I'm only home 2 days each week(thank heavens for water = timers!). Next spring I'm going to drive less and garden more. I plan to = start growing produce full-time in 2000. and hope to start a CSA. I've been absorbing all the info. I can find, so I appreciate this list. = Anybody need any horror stories regarding cross-country transport of = produce, I got 'em! Amy K. Johnson Long Island VA akjedj@gamewood.net ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BEAFA9.E5D18540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Just thought I'd let the list know that I eagerly = await the=20 good info that has been passed on through this list. . Right now I have = about=20 2000 sq. feet of 45ac.(the rest in woods and weeds) planted in some = veggies and=20 covercrops. It may not sound like much but my full time job is as a = truck=20 driver, and I'm only home 2 days each week(thank heavens for water = timers!).=20 Next spring I'm going to drive less and garden more. I plan to start = growing=20 produce full-time in 2000. and hope to start a CSA.
     
    I've been absorbing all the info. I can find, so I = appreciate=20 this list. Anybody need any horror stories regarding cross-country = transport of=20 produce, I got 'em!
     
    Amy K. Johnson
    Long Island VA
    akjedj@gamewood.net
    <= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BEAFA9.E5D18540-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 6 15:57:40 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21125 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25137 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11483; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:46:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11419 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:46:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 11787 invoked from network); 6 Jun 1999 19:46:21 -0000 Received: from a48-02-14.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.78) (216.26.11.78) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 1999 19:46:21 -0000 Message-ID: <375AD046.7B2A@teleport.com> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 12:47:20 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allan Balliett CC: CSA list Subject: Re: CSA Quesion: Washing for Distribution References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 348 On washing/cooling produce, Having read a number of replies, I say: "Yes!" Cooling produce SOON after harvet is essential. As a teacher of mine was fond of saying,"The best way to deal with a problem is: don't get it." We deliver three days a week to 75 households. Greens/leafy veggies are harvested the day of delivery and placed, along with the rest of the produce which was harvested the day before and stored in a walk-in cooler) in a plastic tub with a snap-on lid. The deliveries are made in a van with front and rear air conditioning, so the produce is kept cool unitl delivery to our Harvest Shareholders' doors. You would enjoy the looks we get when we step out of the van on a 90 degree day, wearing a coat, to deliver a chilled box of fresh produce. We do almost no rinsing, occasionally we submerge lettuce for a few minutes to drive the small slugs out of the heads. As I once heard Trauger Groh say something like "We grow and we harvest. We trim dead leaves. After that it is processing. I'm not a processor, I'm a grower." Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 6 23:34:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA27112 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA12977 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA01465; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:24:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01380 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:22:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA12326; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:22:10 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:22:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Julia Wiley cc: Allan Balliett , CSA list Subject: Re: CSA Quesion: Washing for Distribution In-Reply-To: <37560D5E.CB6@mariquita.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 349 Thanks for sending the article on post harvest handling. I think plastic is a decent option and when customers want to recycle the bags to me I have to encourage them to reuse the bags in the context of their own family economy...I cannot use used bags for health dept. reasons, and I think when explained it makes sufficient sense to customers and subscribers. I used to have a subscriber who wrote her name on her bags so that I could re-use them for HER salad mix, etc., and I had to explain that so much coordination and detail was too much for my sole self! Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jun 7 17:25:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15929 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA11257 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA27294; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:13:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from c004.sfo.cp.net (c004-h006.c004.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.77]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA27076 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:10:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906072110.QAA27076@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (cpmta 24958 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 14:10:40 -0700 Received: from 216-32-33-39.irv0.flashcom.net (HELO ?216.32.33.39?) (216.32.33.39) by smtp.flashcom.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 14:10:40 -0700 X-Sent: 7 Jun 1999 21:10:40 GMT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:14:33 -0700 Subject: Lease form From: "Andrew Bernstein" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 350 Hello. Some friends and I are avid consumers of raw milk, a staple in most countries around the world, but illegal to sell in most U.S. states. To get around this, we are looking into signing a lease agreement with the cow owners, so that we would be leasing the cows. The dairy, in effect, would then belong to us, and the money we pay is going for the service of milking, not the milk itself. It's sort of a mini-CSA, specializing in milk. Does anyone on this list have experience with such lease agreements? We are looking for some sort of template we could base it on. Thanks for your help. Andy Bernstein From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 9 18:00:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA05068 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA20906 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA13861; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:48:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13741 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:46:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01202; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:46:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Eliza Lindsay To: Kevin Smyth cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: drip irrigation In-Reply-To: <199905092347.TAA27845@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 351 On Sun, 9 May 1999, Kevin Smyth wrote: > friends - Just turned on the water to our newly installed drip system in > our 3 acre vegetable patch. I have it divided by valves into three zones. > I'd like to be able to water even smaller areas within each zone, but I > already have the tee-tape down and hooked up, so my question is this: > anyone out there know how to "shut off" the individual tee tape lines? > Looks to me like I could just crimp the lines somehow, but I fear I may > damage the lines. Anybody? As you can see I have not been reading my email lately :-) I am not sure I understand your set-up, but here's what I do..... Every bed has it's own run of t-tape (two strands per bed) which has it's own shut off valve, so *if* I succeed in planning so that like watering needs get planted in the same bed...I can simply shut off that run when I'm ready. That is, even though I amy have five beds hooked together to be watered together, I can turn off any one or all of them when I am ready to...and keep watering the rest.... If I don't plan well, and sometimes I don't, e.g., last year some water needing aquilegia was behind a bunch of summer dormant bulbs (tritelias etc.) in the same bed then I either cut and piece the irrigation so a bit of non-slitted stuff is running from the header to the point where I want to water and then I attach the drip...or if the area is small enough I had water (yuk) while swearing I won't make that mistake again :-) And, slowly but surely I am getting to be a better planner...though thsi year I am on a wonderful hiatus and not worrying about this sort of logistical problem at all :-) eliza From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 9 18:13:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA05257 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25882 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15248; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:03:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13937 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:49:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01299; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:48:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Eliza Lindsay To: Intergalactic Garage cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: drip irrigation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 352 If you live in an ag area than well/pump folks will carry the stuff. If you live in an urban area you can usually find irrigation wholesalers who are geared to the turf/"landscaper" crowd who will sell to you as long as you don't ask too many questions...Some even don't mind the neophyte questions :-) Peaceful Valley Farm Supply carries the basics for t-tape and is reasonably priced though shipping ain't cheap... :-) eliza From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 9 18:33:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA05815 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:33:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA01823 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA16702; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:22:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16635 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:22:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02002; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:22:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Eliza Lindsay To: Jeff Herr cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Fastest way to adjust PH In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990602071956.00f863b4@mail.thestreet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 353 On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Jeff Herr wrote: > Hello all. > > We are working a new piece of land here and have found that, despite a >good lime application two months ago, we are still acidic. We are in >western Washington State. Still cool and regular rain. > > With crops in the ground, how long will it take to adjust the soil PH with >some form of top dressing? > > In other words, how long does it take for the balance to begin shifting? > And what form of buffering amendment is fastest acting, organic, and not > detrimental to the short-term or long-term health of the soil and its > inhabitants? Hello, I'll give you some of my opinionated personal thoughts on the issue... I live in Portland, Oregon and so I know what kinda clime you're talking :-) I think this topic of pH is very interesting and something we humans really know less about than we think we do. I think pH, how pH is affected, how it combines with other soil factors to effect plant health is so exceedinly complex (so many dependent variables one might say :-) that it just boggles the mind. Here are some things that help me get a grip: a) I've heard it said that after adding lime you may not see its full effects until onwards of 6 months...Remembering the caveat of so many variables affecting pH and affecting how fast it changes, i'd say that six months is a good, safe, conservative estimate although we're talking a mighty huge ball field :-) b) This next point is low on techno talk and high on folksy talk, but if you like to have technical references and explanations they are out there in growing numbers as more and more research folks come to realize that: OG matter is the panacea for almost every singly soil imbalance. Og matter is especially great for pH issues. If you got's the low pHs it will bring 'em on up (and/or mitigate detrimental effects of low pHs to them plants, e.g. make them nutrients plant-ready even though the pH would seem to be too low) and vice verse if you got those high pH's... That is, compost will buffer your pH like nobody's bizness and so, adding compost and or mulch (will eventually be composted in place) and or cover crops and leaving crop residue behind is just grand for pH adjustment not to mention a lot else... c) It is better to go light on amendments and go again if you have to, rather than a lot infrequently. Adding a lot of anything directly to the soil (save possibly finished compost and even there I think moderation is a good idea, though here i may be in the minority) at once is a sure way to throw whatever balance your soil system is managing to acheive on its own out o' wack and thereby give everyone involved a good case of indigestion. (Incidentally, if you're one for mulching which I think is keeno, surface applications of mulch, whether it be straw, leaves, finished compost, partially finished compost) really can be quite thick/extravagant precisely because they are *surface* and NOT "worked into the soil immediately by our mechanical methods".) With mulch what limits me is available sources and time.... I have seen recommended liming and NPK application rates of folks connected in ag research that to me seem astronomically high...(Remember these rates may not be taking into account any og matter, cause well, lots of folks don't add none...but we're lucky since we do, being og kinda people :-) So, as in UNIX: LESS is definitely MORE :-) d) I didn't understand the question "With crops in the ground how long will it take...with some kind of top dressing..." Are you wondering if the crops affect the rate of pH adjustment? Are you wondering what you can add while crops are in the ground? Or...? e) Lots of plants can grow pertty darn okay a bit "outside" of their "recommended pH range" in my humble experience *if* their is plenty of og matter...that is, good tilth is good news...This supports the claims of point b above. So, if you're adding good amounts of og matter to your crop beds don't worry if the pH is slowly adjsuting itself, so long as them plants are growing good.... f) Sort of a summary to the above: Lime, limestone, oyster shells, etc. (as long doesn't contain the snythetic stuff and be carefull some "ground limestone" does) is an organic jump start for pH. But, it is slow acting, relatively speaking. OTOH, you could create a harmonious soil life, including a proper pH for that soil type/plant community without ever liming simply by doling out the panacea of og matter judiciously. And, indeed, even if you do, as I do, use lime as jump-start adjuster of pH you will want to look to your og matter management systems (cover crops, crop resiude, reduced/no tillage, compost, mulch) as the long term keeper of good soil and good pH. Finally, I am a firm believer that good thoughts are very important to the health of your soil and plants. So, think them good thoughts and watch happy plants grow... If you like these topics you may want to check out other lists on the interet that while not csa or even farmer specific are full of knowledgeable folks. Indeed, gardeners are some of the most valuable sources of information around... eliza's rambling two cents From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 10 12:10:02 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19513 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21184 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08611; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:56:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08517 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:55:11 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (14413) by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dWOPa01249 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:53:48 EDT Subject: Fwd: The rest of the story; adjusting PH: To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_b34e1f7d.2491398c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 354 --part1_b34e1f7d.2491398c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/10/99 7:36:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, SCook21809 writes: << Jeff Herr asked the question: > Hello all. > > We are working a new piece of land here and have found that, despite a >good lime application two months ago, we are still acidic. We are in >western Washington State. Still cool and regular rain. > With crops in the ground, how long will it take to adjust the soil PH with >some form of top dressing? > > In other words, how long does it take for the balance to begin shifting? > And what form of buffering amendment is fastest acting, organic, and not > detrimental to the short-term or long-term health of the soil and its > inhabitants? > In a message dated 6/9/99 3:23:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, eliza@q7.com writes: Lime, limestone, oyster shells, etc. (as long doesn't contain the snythetic stuff and be carefull some "ground limestone" does) is an organic jump start for pH. But, it is slow acting, relatively speaking. OTOH, you could create a harmonious soil life, including a proper pH for that soil type/plant community without ever liming simply by doling out the panacea of og matter judiciously. And, indeed, even if you do, as I do, use lime as jump-start adjuster of pH you will want to look to your og matter management systems (cover crops, crop resiude, reduced/no tillage, compost, mulch) as the long term keeper of good soil and good pH. >> I feel obliged to temper Eliza's good advice regarding OG matter applications to sweeten soils. Adding OG matter does sustain healthy soils. But it sounds like Jeff's challenge is to nurture a very unbalanced (sick) soil back to health. Simply adding OG matter to tight lifeless soil will only compound Jeff's problems with weeds, chemical imbalance, pests and water run-off. The life giving force that Eliza distributes in her OG matter is derived from the aerobic microorganisms (bacteria and fungi) found in properly managed compost and cover crops. Most soil scientist agree that plants eat at the second table. It is the microbes in the soil that determin the health and life for plants. The microbes digest the OG matter and distribute plant available nutrients in their wastes and their bodies when they die. These aerobic microbes can actually chelate clay and rock particles to provide the minerals your plants require. A teaspoon of Eliza's soil probably contains up to 500 million aerobic microbes. Tens of thousands of species competing for food, eating each other, and nurturing her plants. Soils that are tight, hydrophobic and imbalanced always have anaerobic microorganisms as the predominate life force second only to the pests. Adding OG matter to these soils will compound the problems because the anaerobes produce alcohols and acids as they digest the supplements. Only well made compost contains all the aerobes sick soils require. Making enough good compost for a larger growing operation is nearly impossible. However, growing the microbes from good compost and spraying them onto the soils and as a foliar feed is a safe, efficient and fast way to improve soil tilth. I wrote a five page summary of the principles and technology of making good compost and brewing compost tea. It will appear in the July or August edition of "Growing for Market". Since I'm already late getting out to move my chicken tractor, you will have to wait for the publication. But I feel it prudent to warn you not to run out and load an already sick soil with OG matter. Your patience will be rewarded. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm Bainbridge Island,WA --part1_b34e1f7d.2491398c_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: SCook21809@aol.com From: SCook21809@aol.com Full-name: SCook21809 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:36:02 EDT Subject: Re: The rest of the story; adjusting PH: To: eliza@q7.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Jeff Herr asked the question: > Hello all. > > We are working a new piece of land here and have found that, despite a >good lime application two months ago, we are still acidic. We are in >western Washington State. Still cool and regular rain. > With crops in the ground, how long will it take to adjust the soil PH with >some form of top dressing? > > In other words, how long does it take for the balance to begin shifting? > And what form of buffering amendment is fastest acting, organic, and not > detrimental to the short-term or long-term health of the soil and its > inhabitants? > In a message dated 6/9/99 3:23:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, eliza@q7.com writes: Lime, limestone, oyster shells, etc. (as long doesn't contain the snythetic stuff and be carefull some "ground limestone" does) is an organic jump start for pH. But, it is slow acting, relatively speaking. OTOH, you could create a harmonious soil life, including a proper pH for that soil type/plant community without ever liming simply by doling out the panacea of og matter judiciously. And, indeed, even if you do, as I do, use lime as jump-start adjuster of pH you will want to look to your og matter management systems (cover crops, crop resiude, reduced/no tillage, compost, mulch) as the long term keeper of good soil and good pH. >> I feel obliged to temper Eliza's good advice regarding OG matter applications to sweeten soils. Adding OG matter does sustain healthy soils. But it sounds like Jeff's challenge is to nurture a very unbalanced (sick) soil back to health. Simply adding OG matter to tight lifeless soil will only compound Jeff's problems with weeds, chemical imbalance, pests and water run-off. The life giving force that Eliza distributes in her OG matter is derived from the aerobic microorganisms (bacteria and fungi) found in properly managed compost and cover crops. Most soil scientist agree that plants eat at the second table. It is the microbes in the soil that determin the health and life for plants. The microbes digest the OG matter and distribute plant available nutrients in their wastes and their bodies when they die. These aerobic microbes can actually chelate clay and rock particles to provide the minerals your plants require. A teaspoon of Eliza's soil probably contains up to 500 million aerobic microbes. Tens of thousands of species competing for food, eating each other, and nurturing her plants. Soils that are tight, hydrophobic and imbalanced always have anaerobic microorganisms as the predominate life force second only to the pests. Adding OG matter to these soils will compound the problems because the anaerobes produce alcohols and acids as they digest the supplements. Only well made compost contains all the aerobes sick soils require. Making enough good compost for a larger growing operation is nearly impossible. However, growing the microbes from good compost and spraying them onto the soils and as a foliar feed is a safe, efficient and fast way to improve soil tilth. I wrote a five page summary of the principles and technology of making good compost and brewing compost tea. It will appear in the July or August edition of "Growing for Market". Since I'm already late getting out to move my chicken tractor, you will have to wait for the publication. But I feel it prudent to warn you not to run out and load an already sick soil with OG matter. Your patience will be rewarded. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm Bainbridge Island,WA --part1_b34e1f7d.2491398c_boundary-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 10 12:34:35 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20098 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27102 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA10581; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:23:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.interhop.net (root@mail2.auracom.net [165.154.140.22]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10518 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:23:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dp80.interhop.net (dp80.interhop.net [209.5.48.80]) by mail.interhop.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA05986 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906101623.MAA05986@mail.interhop.net> X-Sender: leppinger@mail.interhop.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Eppinger Subject: Help with cut worms Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 355 I run a CSA market garden near Toronto, Ontario (Canada). We have an infestation of black cut worms (a.k.a. as Root Maggots). This grub had never been a problem for us before. This year it is sparing nothing and we have lost entire lettuce, spinach, beet, chard and other plantings to it. Digging for them by hand is almost impossible on 8 acres, though we have squished a fair amount so far ! I would very much appreciate to hear from anyone who knows about these cut worms and may have suggestions on how to deal with them. thanks, Lorenz Eppinger Switch Farm / Campbellville, Ontario From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 10 12:46:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20353 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29482 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA11087; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:28:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11004 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:28:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20436; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:28:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Eliza Lindsay To: SCook21809@aol.com cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Fwd: The rest of the story; adjusting PH: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 356 You bring up some good points. But, I am not sure my experience agrees with all that you say. Though I agree that there's no doubt about it that compost sprays. soil or foilar are great... And, though no doubt you're totally right that you can't do on a large scale what you do on a small scale. And, I'm on a very small scale so I count myself very lucky.... I don't know as the original poster's soil is in quite as dire shape as you suggest. I'd say they should look at how their plants are growing, including the weeds and use that as a guide... (I am not alone in my heretical thinking but find soil tests of limited use...Indeed, I once divided a sample in half and sent it to two labs with very different results and I believe it was Rodale who did this with manny many samples sent to many many different labs...But, I'm fine with folks using lab tests as a rough guideline, and have used 'em myself.) In any event, I should add that I doubt all or any of my soil is as healthy as you say. Be nice if it were, but... I have some pretty lifeless soil in some places and what has helped as far as I can tell is the decision to add more og matter and to NOT turn it in. I think the not turning it in is an important piece and one I did not emphasize much. Now I don't happen to dig/till my soils much, if at all. But, even when I did/if I did, I would still apply things to the surface (whether they are cover crops or mulches or compost) rather than turning them in. Honestly, it just seems to work better. I think, it's a case of replicating to some degree the successes of nature...She surface applies her og matter...Indeed, as time goes on I find I use mulch more (un- conposted plant matter, e.g. cover crop left on the surface and planted through or leaves applied in fall or straw/alfalfa as a mulch for the summer more and more and this means less work making all that "finished compost" :-) In any event, what I was really surprised by in your post was the claim that if your soil is sick enough adding og matter will make things worse. I guess I'm feeling disbelief at that. All my experience and the things I've heard from others' direct experience points to the exact opposite. If your soil is sick enough, og matter *and* (the part I left out) low/reduced/no tillage is the best thing you can do for it. I agree that limestone, soft rock phosphate, kelp etc. are good jump-starts when necessary, but I also do still really think that you have to start with the og matter from the get go. And, finished compost is great but so is all kinds of surface mulch....like tree leaves, alfalfa, straw, etc. etc... Patience is a key. But, i guess iu just think that you will get the best result by adding what og matter you can from the start.... The fact that most farmers/growers/gardeners (myself included) can not produce all the og matter they use...says many things, important things such as we've got a long way to go to, maybe our current farming paradigms (even most of the og ones) are missing some key elements, etc. But, what it doesn't say is that you shouldn't strive to have sufficient og matter to add to your soil..... Anyhow, I'll look forward to your article, I am certain it will challenge my views and force change. Even though I'm opinionated I love debates because they do force me to rethink and change my position. :-) eliza From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 10 14:23:57 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23018 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20151 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA18421; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:12:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA18356 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:11:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906101811.NAA18356@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 279338767; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:11:44 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , "Eppinger" Subject: Re: Help with cut worms Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:13:21 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 357 We have been dealing with cutworms for some years and have little to offer but sympathy. Here are some things we have tried (recognizing in some cases that we are only working 1/2 acre) 1. collars around the stem of larger plants like tomatoes and pepper seedlings. Heavey paper and comfrey leaves are our two main choices. They often work butr are time consuming to install. We have found cutworms inside our collars at times. 2. toothpicks around the stem of plants (2 or 3) are supposed to interfere with the cutworm's meal but our success with this has been limited. 3. cornmeal spread around the garden area is supposed to be indigestable for them, but they like it. Better yet if a little molasses is included. Our experience has not been that good. 4. Diatomaceous earth is supposed to cut them up and they die horribly. We wish! 5. Theis year we are trying oyster shell for the same reason as #4. Same result. 6. this year's most promising experiment involves the clean garden bed. No weeds in the fall and the moth that lays the eggs seeks a better place for the babies. We think it is helping. BTW this means no winter rye in those beds. 7. predatory nematodes did not seem to help...maybe it is too cool in our northern climate for the nematodes when the cutorms are getting going. 8. Bt will do them in if you can think of a way to get it to them effectively. 9. They are active at night, so poking around with a flashlight can be productive, as if you have energy left after dark to prowl around 8 acres... 10. Moles came into the gardens and have had good effect, and left some of our earthworms. Hope for moles. As you can see we have had little success. We plant extra and wait them out. Even though they can have several generations of worms even in the North, the early damage is always the only really bad time. We are almost out of "cutworm season" in our northern MI gardens. If you learn anything that is not posted to this list LET US KNOW! Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Eppinger > To: csa-l@prairienet.org > Subject: Help with cut worms > Date: Thursday, June 10, 1999 12:23 PM > > I run a CSA market garden near Toronto, Ontario (Canada). > We have an infestation of black cut worms (a.k.a. as Root Maggots). This > grub had never been a problem for us before. This year it is sparing > nothing and we have lost entire lettuce, spinach, beet, chard and other > plantings to it. Digging for them by hand is almost impossible on 8 acres, > though we have squished a fair amount so far ! > I would very much appreciate to hear from anyone who knows about these cut > worms and may have suggestions on how to deal with them. > thanks, > Lorenz Eppinger > Switch Farm / Campbellville, Ontario > Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Eppinger > To: csa-l@prairienet.org > Subject: Help with cut worms > Date: Thursday, June 10, 1999 12:23 PM > > I run a CSA market garden near Toronto, Ontario (Canada). > We have an infestation of black cut worms (a.k.a. as Root Maggots). This > grub had never been a problem for us before. This year it is sparing > nothing and we have lost entire lettuce, spinach, beet, chard and other > plantings to it. Digging for them by hand is almost impossible on 8 acres, > though we have squished a fair amount so far ! > I would very much appreciate to hear from anyone who knows about these cut > worms and may have suggestions on how to deal with them. > thanks, > Lorenz Eppinger > Switch Farm / Campbellville, Ontario > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 01:06:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA06935 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 01:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA26103 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA27177; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:47:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27095 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:46:58 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (14403) by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dCDWa18150 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:45:46 EDT Subject: Re: The rest of the story; adjusting PH: To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 358 << I am not alone in my heretical thinking. But I find soil tests of limited use.>> Amen Sister! William Albrecht demonstrated the fallacies of the NPK paradigm in very tight academic research. Unfortunately, his raising the red flag initiated his early retirement from academia. Which was closely followed by hefty grants to the Univ. of Missouri by petrochemical interests. <> There is a world of difference between og matter and living finished compost. When you add og matter to soil which is primarily mediated by anaerobic microbes, that og matter will still be there after 3 months. The alcohols excreted by the anaerobes pickle and preserve that og matter for simphylins, root eating nematodes and other pest to enjoy. But when you add good finished compost to such soil the aerobes buffer the acids and alcohols while competing with and feeding on the anaerobes. Now one application of living compost will not change the tight airless soil much. But repeated applications of compost, or better yet compost tea, will show dramatic changes in the soil structure over the course of just one season. The decision not to disturb that newly created soil structure is the most important factor in rehabilitating poor tilth. Soil aerobes open soils to allow air and water movement through. Tillage completely destroys their little living spaces much like tornadoes in the Midwest do to our homes. The survivors, if there are any, pick up the pieces and rebuild. If conditions are favorable, they begin to reproduce again and the disturbance is forgotten. However, over time, frequent use of heavy equipment and the tornado tillage will leave no survivors which puts you back to tight, airless and hydrophobic soil. << I think, it's a case of replicating to some degree the successes of nature...She surface applies her og matter.>> But nature doesn't succession plant in one season and then export the nutritious elements to neighbors, stores and Farmers' Markets. If you intend to replicate her multitasking and generous benevolence, then take less from her or replace more of what you take in the harvest. << Patience is the key. The fact that most farmers/growers/gardeners (myself included) cannot produce all the og matter they use...says many things, important things such as we've got a long way to go to, maybe our current farming paradigms (even most of the og ones) are missing some key elements, etc.>> I just gave you the paradigm shift. Yet, you are resistant to believing its accuracy. My experience in using this new technology is that I started farming on hard pan clay 6 years ago. Today, I have amazing tilth, drainage and fertility. As a foliar spray I have arrested blight on tomatoes and potatoes, reversed powdery and downy mildew on squash and grapes. Eliminated leaf curl on peach trees and scab on apples. I'm better off if other growers don't apply this new technology. Because I can produce more with less inputs than any of them. By producing my own inputs, I become much more sustainable. I know this subject is going to be highly controversial. People like Dennis Avery will, in their ignorance and financial interest, warn of e-coli and salmonella outbreaks. But simple truths remain truths regardless of what you or I choose to believe. I don't need GMOs to prevent weed and pest infestations. Spirit has already provided everything we require. We need only to observe and support nature in her efforts to sustain this space ship. We will be much healthier, once we stop trying to judge and improve nature to satisfy our will. I'll see you in the funny papers....Art From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 08:44:43 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA10850 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09293 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA04915; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:31:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04360 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:28:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA04006; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:28:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-134.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.134) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003993; Fri Jun 11 07:27:44 1999 Message-ID: <000801beb405$6dc1b4c0$86fa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: The rest of the story; adjusting PH: Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:24:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 359 Art, Missed something somewhere is the foliar spray you mention, compost tea spray? I had a rosemary plant with powdery mildew and my organic pest book recommended compost tea, I tried it and I do think my rosemary is looking better. Ps does anyone have tips to sucessfully wintering a rosemary in the house? Beth >I just gave you the paradigm shift. Yet, you are resistant to believing its >accuracy. My experience in using this new technology is that I started >farming on hard pan clay 6 years ago. Today, I have amazing tilth, drainage >and fertility. As a foliar spray I have arrested blight on tomatoes and >potatoes, reversed powdery and downy mildew on squash and grapes. Eliminated >leaf curl on peach trees and scab on apples. I'm better off if other growers >don't apply this new technology. Because I can produce more with less inputs >than any of them. By producing my own inputs, I become much more sustainable. > >I know this subject is going to be highly controversial. People like Dennis >Avery will, in their ignorance and financial interest, warn of e-coli and >salmonella outbreaks. But simple truths remain truths regardless of what you >or I choose to believe. I don't need GMOs to prevent weed and pest >infestations. Spirit has already provided everything we require. We need >only to observe and support nature in her efforts to sustain this space ship. > We will be much healthier, once we stop trying to judge and improve nature >to satisfy our will. > >I'll see you in the funny papers....Art > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 10:32:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13117 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28875 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26130; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:21:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from premier1.premier1.net (root@premier1.premier1.net [206.40.134.38]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25511 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:16:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from premier1 (red-1-165.premier1.net [207.149.54.165]) by premier1.premier1.net (8.8.6/8.7) with SMTP id HAA28830 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906111414.HAA28830@premier1.premier1.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: mjb@premier1.net To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:14:51 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: the big picture Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 360 It's been interesting reading the dialogues that come up on this list. I'm a pretty quiet viewer and usually limit my correspondence to the person directing the inquiry. A couple of times I've been tempted to address the whole group but haven't due to time etc. This time however, I feel that something needs to be said. There are countless ways to farm, organically or conventionally and every farmer is opioniated with the idea that their way is better. Quite simply the soil is a very forgiving life force and mistakes made can be rectified. I farm with the idea that the less work the better. That means I won't spend time making a compost tea, that is one step too many. I do make compost and it is added regularly to my fields. I put as many varieties of compostable matter into my piles to give the composts I make as much fungi and bacteria as possible. You don't need tons of this stuff, a little goes a long way. After all it is just an inoculation of these little guys, they multiply and do the rest. If you don't add compost and just ammendments, your plants are going to grow as well, perhaps not as luxuriantly but they will grow and you will get a harvest. That phrase, "next year" sound familiar. So those of you that are first or second year farmers, don't panic you are on the right track just by being out there and farming. I think getting those good guys into the soil by spraying with a tea labor intensive, and wonder if the spray is contributing more to the brix factor of the plant than anything else. I have used teas before to help with problems and it is a great advantage over other means, but I see no difference when I use it when I don't have problems. However for someone with the time and energy to do this I say more power to them. I've been to Jeff's fields, his soil is not sick. His plants are doing well. Remember, plants can grow in a wide range of ph. It's only when it's far one side or the other that there are problems. It's been very cold, wet and awful here this spring. We are averaging 10 degrees below normal and that is what is really the problem. Continuing to build the soil, whatever manner he decides to will help bring his ph to the level desirable. So, to stop this rambling that's the way I'm doing it this year. Next year I might try something a bit different. I do okay this way. Actually I do rather well. I farm approximately 3 acres, have a laying flock of 300, and seasonally do meat birds, mostly by myself so mymethod of as little work as possible is best for me. But it isn't the only way! Praying for sunshine Michaele Blakely Growing Things Carnation Wa From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 11:03:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA13743 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05114 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01535; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:52:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01161 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:50:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 18291 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 14:50:08 -0000 Received: from a48-02-08.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.72) (216.26.11.72) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 14:50:08 -0000 Message-ID: <37612264.5F2E@teleport.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:51:19 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FranksFarm@aol.com CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? References: <476a00e.2491109f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 361 I believe you can get spaders "built into a tractor" as dedicated machines as well as in the form of smaller walk-behind self-contained units. Our spader is a standard 3-point implement and fits any tractor with a standard 3-point hitch (I think category 3 - whatever the standard regular size is - not the monster size) It is Italian made, and I think Italy sort of has a corner on the market with a number of manufacturers producing them, though I don't know why other countries don't seem to make any. Maybe Italy jusy got started first. Size and brand of tractor shouldn't be particularly important, but it must have sufficient horsepower (which depends on the width of the spader and how hard your soil is - ask the supplier of the spader) and must be able to go slow enough at full PTO speed. This last is critical, and the reason we rent a tractor to use our spader - we have plenty of power, but can't go slow enough (1 to 1-1/2 mph). Of course, the tractor needs a 3-point hitch, but I think all true tractors (as opposed to garden tractors) do now. If you are looking for a tractor with the idea of buying one, I recommend 4-wheel drive (extends your season) and hydrostatic transmission (or something like it) for infinite speed control. Another word about tractors: we do very little soil turning, except when bringin soil back into balance (once balanced we keep soil in balance without turning by using mulches, rock powders and compost). We use the tractor mainly for two things: mowing and hauling materials in the loader. If this seems to make sense to you I recommend that you get a tractor with AT LEAST 42 PTO HP - that is at least 42 HP at the power take off. This will mean the hydraulic system will have the capacity to handle a good sized loader bucket (say 3' by 3' by 6'). With just a little less horsepower you are stuck with dinky loaders that hold about 20% as much stuff. Takes forever. For informtion get ahold of Ferarri Tractor Et Cie. in California. They probably have a web site, but I don't know what it is. Good growing, Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust FranksFarm@aol.com wrote: "Hi Will, In a message dated 6/9/99 10:17:30 PM, osalt@teleport.com writes: $3,200 including shipping to Portland, and well worth it. One person on a small tractor can prepare literally 10 times as many beds as by hand. (2 guys - with shovels, rakes, etc., 4 beds, 8 hours vs. 1 guy - with tractor and spader, 20 beds, 8 hours). >> Sounds real good to me. Somehow I thought this machine came with a small Italian made tractor. Sounds like the above is an attachment. What size , brand type tractor would you recommend for it. Can too much HP, size be a problem.? Will this attachment fit on all tractors? Do you know where I can get more literature, info on this spader? Thanks again. Frank <<" From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 11:14:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14123 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07324 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA03157; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:02:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA03081 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:01:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 21876 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 15:01:51 -0000 Received: from a48-02-08.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.72) (216.26.11.72) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 15:01:51 -0000 Message-ID: <37612522.4B26@teleport.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:03:03 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCook21809@aol.com CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: The rest of the story; adjusting PH: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 362 Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes! As growers we often fail to examine what may be our worst unexamined assumption: we assume that we can remove material from the cycle (by harvesting and exporting) and suffer no consequences. Until we can close the cycle by some combination of reducing our exports and/or replacing that exported material with imported material, we are going to be out of balance. SCook21809@aol.com wrote: > > << I am not alone in my heretical thinking. But I find soil tests of limited > use.>> > > Amen Sister! > > William Albrecht demonstrated the fallacies of the NPK paradigm in very tight > academic research. Unfortunately, his raising the red flag initiated his > early retirement from academia. Which was closely followed by hefty grants > to the Univ. of Missouri by petrochemical interests. > > < healthy as you say. Be nice if it were, but... I have some pretty lifeless > soil in some places and what has helped as far as I can tell is the > decision to add more og matter and to NOT turn it in.>> > > There is a world of difference between og matter and living finished compost. > When you add og matter to soil which is primarily mediated by anaerobic > microbes, that og matter will still be there after 3 months. The alcohols > excreted by the anaerobes pickle and preserve that og matter for simphylins, > root eating nematodes and other pest to enjoy. But when you add good > finished compost to such soil the aerobes buffer the acids and alcohols while > competing with and feeding on the anaerobes. Now one application of living > compost will not change the tight airless soil much. But repeated > applications of compost, or better yet compost tea, will show dramatic > changes in the soil structure over the course of just one season. > > The decision not to disturb that newly created soil structure is the most > important factor in rehabilitating poor tilth. Soil aerobes open soils to > allow air and water movement through. Tillage completely destroys their > little living spaces much like tornadoes in the Midwest do to our homes. The > survivors, if there are any, pick up the pieces and rebuild. If conditions > are favorable, they begin to reproduce again and the disturbance is > forgotten. However, over time, frequent use of heavy equipment and the > tornado tillage will leave no survivors which puts you back to tight, airless > and hydrophobic soil. > > << I think, it's a case of replicating to some degree the successes of > nature...She surface applies her og matter.>> > > But nature doesn't succession plant in one season and then export the > nutritious elements to neighbors, stores and Farmers' Markets. If you intend > to replicate her multitasking and generous benevolence, then take less from > her or replace more of what you take in the harvest. > > << Patience is the key. The fact that most farmers/growers/gardeners (myself > included) cannot produce all the og matter they use...says many things, > important things such as we've got a long way to go to, maybe our current > farming paradigms (even most of the og ones) are missing some key elements, > etc.>> > > I just gave you the paradigm shift. Yet, you are resistant to believing its > accuracy. My experience in using this new technology is that I started > farming on hard pan clay 6 years ago. Today, I have amazing tilth, drainage > and fertility. As a foliar spray I have arrested blight on tomatoes and > potatoes, reversed powdery and downy mildew on squash and grapes. Eliminated > leaf curl on peach trees and scab on apples. I'm better off if other growers > don't apply this new technology. Because I can produce more with less inputs > than any of them. By producing my own inputs, I become much more sustainable. > > I know this subject is going to be highly controversial. People like Dennis > Avery will, in their ignorance and financial interest, warn of e-coli and > salmonella outbreaks. But simple truths remain truths regardless of what you > or I choose to believe. I don't need GMOs to prevent weed and pest > infestations. Spirit has already provided everything we require. We need > only to observe and support nature in her efforts to sustain this space ship. > We will be much healthier, once we stop trying to judge and improve nature > to satisfy our will. > > I'll see you in the funny papers....Art From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 14:00:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18300 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13475 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19775; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:50:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18971 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:44:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15178; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:43:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Eliza Lindsay To: mjb@premier1.net cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: the big picture In-Reply-To: <199906111414.HAA28830@premier1.premier1.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 363 On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 mjb@premier1.net wrote: > It's been interesting reading the dialogues that come up on this > list. I'm a pretty quiet viewer and usually limit my correspondence > to the person directing the inquiry. A couple of times I've been > tempted to address the whole group but haven't due to time etc. > This time however, I feel that something needs to be said. Thanks for your comments. I really appreciated them and think they are right on the money:-) Thanks again for reminding me of the importance of humility. :-) eliza From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 14:00:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18303 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13474 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19718; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:50:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18846 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:41:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15168; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Eliza Lindsay To: SCook21809@aol.com cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: The rest of the story; adjusting PH: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 364 On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 SCook21809@aol.com wrote: > > There is a world of difference between og matter and living finished compost. > When you add og matter to soil which is primarily mediated by anaerobic > microbes, that og matter will still be there after 3 months. The alcohols I agree that finished compost and og matter are very different things....Never said otherwise. All I said was that I thought applying non-composted og matter as a surface mulch is almost always beneficial... I dunna know, being hard-headed maybe...I agree that "turning og matter *into* the soil creates what I call "indigestion" or what you more "scientifically" describe. But, I really find that surface mulching works great for me and I don't think it's giving the soil stomach pains *or* favoring the "bad microbes" (I actually don't think there are good or bad microbes just balance and imbalance.) Surface mulch conserves water, protects surface applied compost and or the surface of the soil from drying, does some of what cover crops do to mitigate leaching, provides a very slow release food for future plants, etc, etc,.... Interestingly, it doesn't seem to be favoring at all my #1 "bad guy" out here in the pnw...slugs.... So, that's what I was trying to suggest and I am not sure we're really disagreeing about much. > > << I think, it's a case of replicating to some degree the successes of > nature...She surface applies her og matter.>> > > But nature doesn't succession plant in one season and then export the > nutritious elements to neighbors, stores and Farmers' Markets. If you intend > to replicate her multitasking and generous benevolence, then take less from > her or replace more of what you take in the harvest. Exactly, I suggested as much in my post and indeed I do return more and more to the bed as a *surface mulch* than ever before, be it cover crop, crop residue, etc. etc. With most of my crops I am not actually taking much away, percentage away. And, too herbacious perennials are a big part of my cut flower production. Perennials are much nicer in many ways, as I am sure you're aware (even short-lived perennials...) I think I am continuing to toot the horn of surface mulching because I think people underestimate the power of mulching. Finished compost is great but it is a time/energy/input intensive thing and it is very good, I think, to remember that no one's turning any compost piles out there in the grasslands or forests (what little remain).... Of course, our fields and gardens are not forests and grasslands so we have to modify what we do, but it was only my contention that we observe processes in healthy ecosystems as a way to spark ideas of how to do things simply and more sustainably. (Guess that isn't really *my* idea at all since lots of have had it , but I wanted to explain my position since you seemed to be misunderstanding it... Again I am not sure that we disagree on this point either...) > > I just gave you the paradigm shift. Yet, you are resistant to believing its > accuracy. My experience in using this new technology is that I started > farming on hard pan clay 6 years ago. Today, I have amazing tilth, drainage Sorry, you are taking my questions and disagreements this way. I am perhaps too typical in that I don't just accept anything anyone says without turning it around my brain, mulling over it, and coming back with questions... But, I persist in my belief that this questioning/curiosity is a good thing... I hope the next bit will not be inappropriate advice. I almost didn't write it. But, I happen to respect your ideas having read your posts and other things in GFM (you have written in there before, if I recollect correctly, no?) and so wanted to give you a piece of editorly/personal advice. Your responses to my posts have been a little hard to digest for two related reasons: Your responses come off a little preachy as in this is the ONE TRUE WAY.... Also, often you seem to not really have heard what I was saying. So, instead of realizing you're agreeing with me and/or stating something I had already stated you kinda bulldoze over my remarks and ideas.... It is my slightly less than humble contention that folks' respond better to ideas when presented in a non-preachy manner and when they feel their own ideas, insights, and experiences are receiving both due attention and due credit. I also happen to think that we all fall prey to the we've got the true way syndrome (I know I do).....So, I constantly strive for humility and the recognition that there is always more than one way to do anything. When I fall into thinking I've the only connection to true and right is when my vision becomes most myopic and I miss out on others' tantalizing discoveries... For example, I don't think there is "THE" paradigm shift but rather paradigm shifts.... So, I happen to be pretty versed in debate and not easily turned off by prickly or preachy mannerisms in oration (though I must say your responses did give me pause). I know how to set aside style and still get what I want which is a new, fresh idea/method/insight/experience. But I think you'll find people listening more attentively to your experience and insights if you preach less and listen more. > > I'll see you in the funny papers....Art I don't know how to take that one liner. So, I'll just ignore it rather than imagine what it could mean. Respectfully yours, eliza From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 15:21:08 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20573 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02456 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25426; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:09:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25142 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:05:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26900>; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:09:33 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: osalt@teleport.com cc: FranksFarm@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org Message-Id: <99Jun11.140933cdt.26900@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:03:15 -0500 Subject: Re: So what is a spader? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 365 ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA14247 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA29280; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:59:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from main.tellink.net (root@main.tellink.net [208.3.160.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29227 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:59:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from barthunte.tellink.net (pm-2-9.tellink.net [208.3.160.90]) by main.tellink.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA18727 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000a01beb443$7ac39880$5aa003d0@tellink.net> From: "W. Bart Hunter" To: References: <476a00e.2491109f@aol.com> <37612264.5F2E@teleport.com> Subject: Re: So what is a spader? Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:49:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 366 Hi Folks, I don't have clue as to what a spader is. But I have to question the notion that a 42 HP (horse power) tractor is a valid goal for the small CSA farmer. In fact most tractors I've use have had far less horse power then that. I do agree with the four wheel drive. The problem I see is that most, but certainly not all members this list farm relatively small plots. A medium size tractor, 42 HP does fall into that range, is so large and expensive that it would be out of the question for most growers. I'd say you are looking at $30,000 plus worth of tractor. A whole book can be written on the "right tractor" for the small farmer. However, if we look back we see that there have been many tractors already in the field that work very well. For example the MF 135--a 35 HP tractor (newer ones with a different number are four wheel drive) work well and run forever--go Diesel not gas!. Several of the smaller John Deers work well. And let us not forget the old (1950's) Ford 8N's and (9N's). As for speed. I've yet to see a tractor that wouldn't go less then 1.5 mph in low gear/low range except some of the really old tractors. The key is the Power Take Off RPM's (revolutions per minute) 90% of all Cat 3, 3 point hitch driven equipment runs at 540 RPM's in this country. Some mowers and a few rakes are the exception. Therefor the speed of the tractor needs to be matched to the job. To do this most tractors have many speeds. Thus the tractor engine is sped up to 540's (it is marked on the tachometer) and the proper gear is selected for the ground speed. A note on European equipment. Most will fit American tractors or can be fitted by a competent mechanic. They sell some of the neatest small attachments you can find for the small farm--grain harvesters, plows, mowers, and all sorts of cultivators. We must remember that they have more small farms then we do and have developed the equipment to farm with. Their tractors are really great also--I once drove a 35 HP 4 wheel drive tractor that would handle all the equipment I used in our vineyard and the highest point on the tractor, was the top of the steering wheel, was under 40 inches! The tires on our Massy 135 were taller then that! Small is beautiful and often works better. Bart From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 18:15:42 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24460 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11780 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08507; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:01:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08400 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:01:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from doby.excite.com ([199.172.152.182]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990611220047.YXFU2201.gigi@doby.excite.com> for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:00:47 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Small is Good(was So what is a spader?) Message-Id: <929138447.14817.788@excite.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:00:47 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.115 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 367 I agree with Bart, small is good. I have noticed most people have under 10 acres and a 4 wheeled tractor can be too big for such small holding. Upon reading Eliot coleman's book The new Organic grower we went out and bought a 2 wheeled walking tractor and love the thing. We wanted a 10hp Goldoni but there were none in stock so we went with a 12hp BCS with several attachments including a tiller box and sickle bar mower (we can now use the lawn for compost). This replaced a 5hp front tine sears tiller. This machine has a PTO 3 speeds + reverse and does a nice tillage job plus it can lay mulch, mow, move rocks etc Basically what the 4 wheeled jobs do but it is smaller so it is easy to use in out 4' bed system. And like all goo small farm equipment it is italian. I suspect BCS does make a spader for thie machine but the US company had not heard of the spader concept so we let that topic drop. Sometime I shall contact the Milan factory to see for sure as I have noticed what these Italian companies offer to the US and Canada is ofyten not the whole European line. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 11 23:22:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA28133 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16716 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA26641; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:10:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26586 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:10:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jps.net (209-142-54-149.stk.jps.net [209.142.54.149]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23265 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3761640C.70A918D6@jps.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:31:25 +0000 From: Richard Roth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: So what is a spader? References: <476a00e.2491109f@aol.com> <37612264.5F2E@teleport.com> <000a01beb443$7ac39880$5aa003d0@tellink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 368 I don't have one, but i saw one demonstrated once. It did a nice job, but what made me stop and think was the number of moving parts! I swear there are a lot of them! I know how often I have to replace tines on my tiller. I figured the life of the spader was about equal to the life of new tines, then you would have to replace the whole thing. Don't have any experience with spaders though so am just guessing. -- Richard Roth rfarm 1318 Bruce Street Chico, CA 95928 Ph:(530) 895-1672 . From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 12 14:24:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04686 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25518 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA00515; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:13:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pws.gamewood.net (pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00422 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:12:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fox.gamewood.net (0@fox.gamewood.net [206.229.248.28]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27954 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:10:41 -0400 Received: from pavilion (pts0306.gamewood.net [206.229.249.69]) by fox.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17495 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:10:39 -0400 Message-ID: <004b01beb518$baeeb040$45f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "CSA list" Subject: drip irrigation sources Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:15:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01BEB4DE.0D740800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 369 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BEB4DE.0D740800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those of you looking for drip irrigation supplies, do a search on = the web for it, you'll find many sources, The one I've been using is: = www.dipirrigation.com AKA the Drip Store. Shipping is fairly reasonable as long as you use the slowest methods for = the heavy stuff like rolls of tubing. They also have lots of help too. = They are mostly for landscapers and home owners, so you might be able to = find better prices elsewhere in a more commercial farming site, but I = like this one for now because of the customer support. Like Eliza, I also use drip tape down my rows, and each row has its own = valve. Although I have yet to try to crimp off my lines, my husband = suggests first wrapping the line w/ a piece of felt (to prevent damage) = and then put a Quarter (or silver dollar or large washer) above and = below the line (so you need 2 coins) and hold them in place with a pair = of Vise-grips. Amy Johnson Long Island VA akjedj@gamewood.net ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BEB4DE.0D740800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    For those of you looking for drip irrigation = supplies, do a=20 search on the web for it, you'll find many sources, The one I've been = using is:=20 www.dipirrigation.com AKA = the Drip=20 Store.
     
    Shipping is fairly reasonable as long as you use the = slowest=20 methods for the heavy stuff like rolls of tubing. They also have lots of = help=20 too. They are mostly for landscapers and home owners, so you might be = able to=20 find better prices elsewhere in a more commercial farming site, but I = like this=20 one for now because of the customer support.
     
    Like Eliza, I also use drip tape down my rows, and = each row=20 has its own valve. Although I have yet to try to crimp off my lines, my = husband=20 suggests first wrapping the line w/ a piece of felt (to prevent damage) = and then=20 put a Quarter (or silver dollar or large washer) above and below the = line (so=20 you need 2 coins) and hold them in place with a pair of = Vise-grips.
     
    Amy Johnson
    Long Island VA
    akjedj@gamewood.net
    ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BEB4DE.0D740800-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 12 15:34:23 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05661 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09409 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA03806; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:24:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pws.gamewood.net (pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03758 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:23:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fox.gamewood.net (0@fox.gamewood.net [206.229.248.28]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA29275 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:21:48 -0400 Received: from pavilion (pts0306.gamewood.net [206.229.249.69]) by fox.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA23163 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:21:47 -0400 Message-ID: <009701beb522$aa6c6aa0$45f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "CSA list" Subject: small is good(what is a spader) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:26:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0094_01BEB4E7.FD34E5E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 370 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01BEB4E7.FD34E5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was glad to read the response posted by Lucy Goodman-Owsley, as I feel = that keeping the right scale equipment with the right sized business is = extremely important when it comes to farming. Purchasing inputs for the = farm and paying for them can be a neverending cycle of debt. Just look = at some of the "traditional" farmers out there, with a need to buy = bigger equipment to farm more land, needing to farm more land to pay for = the equipment, a glut of their crop lowering the price, needing more = crop since the price is so low, needing more fertilizer, etc, etc.... Anyway, if your farm can support the price of said equipment and it = improves your production go for it! Good for you! But I feel it is = important to keep equipment multi-purpose, versitile, easy to repair = (Good point by Richard Roth), and low in cost for the truly small = farmer. For really small farms you could try to do the same thing as a spader = with a broad fork. I too believe in the value of a walking tractor, I bought one from my = neighbor's junk pile for $100! All it needed was a new spring for the = pull start.It has a one-bottom moldboard plow attachment which is great = for turning over a cover crop. How ever it is very old (a David Bradley = tractor, you can see a picture of one like it in Johnny's Selected Seeds = Catalogue) and I don't trust it's belt drive for attachments so I will = use it only for pull behind attachments. I also have a rear tine tiller, = and that's enough to keep me going until I grow a bigger business. Maybe = I can buy an old used tractor from one of the surrounding tobacco = farmers. As Organic farms grow in size and popularity, we must be carefull to = avoid the traps that got hold of the well-intentioned farmer years ago = when petrochemical and equipment dealers first started to advise farmers = on how to improve their farms. ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01BEB4E7.FD34E5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I was glad to read the response posted by Lucy = Goodman-Owsley,=20 as I feel that keeping the right scale equipment with the right sized = business=20 is extremely important when it comes to farming. Purchasing inputs for = the farm=20 and paying for them can be a neverending cycle of debt. Just look at = some of the=20 "traditional" farmers out there, with a need to buy bigger equipment to = farm=20 more land, needing to farm more land to pay for the equipment, a glut of = their=20 crop lowering the price, needing more crop since the price is so low, = needing=20 more fertilizer, etc, etc....
     
    Anyway, if your farm can support the price of said = equipment=20 and it improves your production go for it! Good for you! But I feel it = is=20 important to keep equipment multi-purpose, versitile, easy to repair = (Good point=20 by Richard Roth), and low in cost for the truly small = farmer.
     
    For really small farms you could try to do = the same=20 thing as a spader with a broad fork.
     
    I too believe in the value of a walking tractor, I = bought one=20 from my neighbor's junk pile for $100! All it needed was a new spring = for the=20 pull start.It has a one-bottom moldboard plow attachment which is great = for=20 turning over a cover crop. How ever it is very old (a David Bradley = tractor, you=20 can see a picture of one like it in Johnny's Selected Seeds Catalogue) = and I=20 don't trust it's belt drive for attachments so I will use it only for = pull=20 behind attachments. I also have a rear tine tiller, and that's enough to = keep me=20 going until I grow a bigger business. Maybe I can buy an old used = tractor from=20 one of the surrounding tobacco farmers.
     
    As Organic farms grow in size and popularity, we = must be=20 carefull to avoid the traps that got hold of the well-intentioned farmer = years=20 ago when petrochemical and equipment dealers first started to advise=20 farmers on how to improve their farms.
     
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01BEB4E7.FD34E5E0-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 12 16:16:05 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA06042 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA18677 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA05574; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:05:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nac.net (tempest.nac.net [209.123.109.39]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA05435 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:03:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 2967 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 1999 20:03:01 -0000 Received: from s9.dial2.wsh.nac.net (HELO home) (207.99.55.129) by tempest.nac.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 20:03:01 -0000 From: "Brad Attig" To: "Organic Gardeners" Subject: Internet Seed Trading Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:04:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000901beb50e$be0dd620$563763cf@home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEB4ED.36FC3620" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 000000003B287B8B1591D111B27A9CFF04C10000041D2400 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 371 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEB4ED.36FC3620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just wanted to alert everyone to a list server maintained by David Ford in PA. He has a free service to exchange seeds. It is not commercial and he does not sell the member list. To subscribe simply send a blank e-mail with the work SUBSCRIBE in the subject to seed@bigfoot.com Have a wonderful and productive summer. Brad Attig ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEB4ED.36FC3620 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+Ig0UAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAAM8HBgAMABAAAwAAAAYAAQEB A5AGAPwFAAAnAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAAB AAAAFgAAAEludGVybmV0IFNlZWQgVHJhZGluZwAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+tQ6VW8ISJksgnRHT snqXaCZpYSUAAAIBHQwBAAAAFwAAAFNNVFA6QlJBREFUVElHQE5BQy5ORVQAAAsAAQ4AAAAAQAAG DgDyM5IOtb4BAgEKDgEAAAAYAAAAAAAAADsoe4sVkdERsnqc/wTBAADCgAAACwAfDgEAAAADAAYQ l36qkAMABxAKAQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASUpVU1RXQU5URURUT0FMRVJURVZFUllPTkVUT0FMSVNU U0VSVkVSTUFJTlRBSU5FREJZREFWSURGT1JESU5QQUhFSEFTQUZSRUVTRVJWSUNFVE9FWENIQU5H RVNFRURTSVRJUwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAJwBAACYAQAA3QEAAExaRnVG2/SMAwAKAHJjcGcxMjUWMgD4 C2BuDhAwMzOdAfcgAqQDYwIAY2gKwEBzZXQwIEcKwGEpBGBuZAKAfQqBdWOjAFALA3VsbgIgZQKx QCBJIGp1cwVAd4UAcHQJgCB0byAHQNMEkAVAZXYEkHkTIRRjXCBsBAAFQBEwchURIB8AwAuAAZAL gBRBYnkg0ERhdmkUUEYFsBRQAQuAIFBBLiAgSP8VcBEABCAVwANQCeAWIw3geRVzZXgQ8Q8gGXIJ gHPtGIFJBUAEACATEAVABaDybQeAcmMHMRSQEeAY0LkVcGRvB5EbshEwbAMgfnQc4QeABtAWcRXi GIFU8RSAc3ViBPIeYBYgB3B/C1AXYBEwHLEVwAJgAHBrfRTwLRahAyAD8B3wHeN3AwWwIQBTVUJT Q1K4SUJFGCId8h9BagWQhwVAFHEa0kBiaWcCEL0bwC4b8QqiCoQKgEgXkN8VcBXAIiAR4ASQZhLw HJPKcANgZBJgdGkmER9AtRwSLiU6QhGgFFBBAkAXJJAlOhIhACrAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAsA AoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwAEgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUA AAAAAAADAAqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAA8BMAAB4AC4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguNQALAAyACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAGhQAAAAAAAAMADYAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAWgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAA AAADABeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAGYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ABiFAAAAAAAAHgAogAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AKYAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeACqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4 hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAACwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAgoUAAAEAAAALADaACyAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAAiAAAAAAAAAsAOIALIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAWIAAAAAAAAAgH4 DwEAAAAQAAAAOyh7ixWR0RGyepz/BMEAAAIB+g8BAAAAEAAAADsoe4sVkdERsnqc/wTBAAACAfsP AQAAAFEAAAAAAAAAOKG7EAXlEBqhuwgAKypWwgAAUFNUUFJYLkRMTAAAAAAAAAAATklUQfm/uAEA qgA32W4AAABDOlxFeGNoYW5nZVxtYWlsYm94LnBzdAAAAAADAP4PBQAAAAMADTT9NwAAAgF/AAEA AAAxAAAAMDAwMDAwMDAzQjI4N0I4QjE1OTFEMTExQjI3QTlDRkYwNEMxMDAwMDA0MUQyNDAwAAAA AF0e ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEB4ED.36FC3620-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 12 19:10:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07404 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA00720 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA16102; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:59:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16033 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:59:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mycp.tdsnet.com (buwiusr1-a43.bbw.tds.net [207.1.10.107]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA20565 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:59:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002501beb526$93c37ec0$6b0a01cf@mycp.tdsnet.com> Reply-To: "Marv Hughes" <@mail.tds.net> From: "Marv Hughes" To: Subject: Natural Fly Control Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:54:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB4FC.A509E540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 372 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB4FC.A509E540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would like to hear if any of you have any good ways/ideas on how to = control flies in the barn. I have goats and for some reason this year = the fly population in the stable area has gotten out of control. I am = milking the goats and do not want to use pesticides (wouldn't use it = anyway). I'm using a baited fly catcher (a foul smelling solution that = attracts the flies) and it's catching quite a few but I still have far = to many. I know good fly control comes from good farm habits so I = always compost my manure, keep the compost pile a good distance from the = barn, never spead manure directly onto the fields and keep all feed = covered. Don't know what happened and could use suggestions. =20 Thanks =20 Marv Hughes =20 Badger Botanical Farms hughesm@bbw.tds.net ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB4FC.A509E540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Would like to hear if any of you = have any good=20 ways/ideas on how to control flies in the barn.  I have goats and = for some=20 reason this year the fly population in the stable area has gotten out of = control.  I am milking the goats and do not want to use pesticides=20 (wouldn't use it anyway).  I'm using a baited fly catcher (a foul = smelling=20 solution that attracts the flies) and it's catching quite a few but I = still have=20 far to many.  I know good fly control comes from good farm habits = so I=20 always compost my manure, keep the compost pile a good distance from the = barn,=20 never spead manure directly onto the fields and keep all feed covered. = Don't=20 know what happened and could use suggestions.    =
     
    Thanks    =
     
    Marv = Hughes   
    Badger Botanical Farms
    hughesm@bbw.tds.net
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB4FC.A509E540-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 12 19:16:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07458 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA01809 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA16380; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:05:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16330; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:05:31 -0500 (CDT) From: ThorneBush@aol.com Received: from ThorneBush@aol.com (535) by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dLKPa10019; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:04:17 EDT Subject: Re: Natural Fly Control To: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org CC: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 373 Air circulation from fans also helps cut down on flies. Have a friend with milking goats and she is doing the bait and keeping things clean routine but as warmer weather arises the fan help alot as flies detest wind. Thorne From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 13 05:09:43 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA10995 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA24800 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA04708; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 03:58:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA29875 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:18:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 21687 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 05:18:04 -0000 Received: from a48-02-20.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.84) (216.26.11.84) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 05:18:04 -0000 Message-ID: <37633F53.3192@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:19:18 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eliza Lindsay CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: The rest of the story; adjusting PH: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 374 (Eliza - this is in response to your reaction/defense/explanation to SCook21809@aol.com) I try to keep in mind that humans began agriculture (an attempt to control what grows, when and where) 8-10,000 years ago and we still haven't got it right. We cannot consistently produce what we want without screwing up ecosystems. Given that, I want all the diversity of input I can get. It seems to me that diversity in the exchange and development of ideas is just as critical as diversity in other natural systems. It happens that I agree with a lot of what you say, but I want to see the stuff I disagree with too. I may need to see that even more than the stuff I agree with. When my wife and I turned 50 (a month apart) we took the month off, took stock of our first 50 years, and tried to figure out what we wanted to do with the next 50. What we realized was that we know a lot of stuff, and we figure about half of it is wrong. We're spending the second 50 years trying to figure out which half. You all help. Thanks, Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust (We don't know how to grow what we want without screwing up the balance, either, but we're gertting better at it every year.) From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 13 05:13:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA11024 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA25505 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA04832; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 04:03:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA00159 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:28:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 23975 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 05:28:56 -0000 Received: from a48-02-20.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.84) (216.26.11.84) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 05:28:56 -0000 Message-ID: <376341DF.18D5@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:30:11 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Elazar CC: FranksFarm@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? References: <99Jun11.140933cdt.26900@mint.cwb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 375 Thanks for the background. I don't know if I said this anywhere, but we used a 5 or 6' spader on a friend's David Brown tractor (it can go REALLY slowly) with fine results. I believe it is about 40 HP (PTO) We rent a 21 HP John Deere 4-wheel drive with hydrostatic transmission to use our 3' spader. We can control the fineness of the bed by controlling the speed we travel - the slower we go the finer the bed surface. If we want to we could leave a powder surface, though we never have. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 13 05:17:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA11044 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA26818 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 05:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA04952; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 04:07:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA00491 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:41:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 26877 invoked from network); 13 Jun 1999 05:41:37 -0000 Received: from a48-02-20.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.84) (216.26.11.84) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 1999 05:41:37 -0000 Message-ID: <376344D7.2900@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:42:52 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "W. Bart Hunter" CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? References: <476a00e.2491109f@aol.com> <37612264.5F2E@teleport.com> <000a01beb443$7ac39880$5aa003d0@tellink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 376 W. Bart Hunter wrote (in part): "I don't have clue as to what a spader is. But I have to question the notion that a 42 HP (horse power) tractor is a valid goal for the small CSA farmer. In fact most tractors I've use have had far less horse power then that. I do agree with the four wheel drive. The problem I see is that most, but certainly not all members this list farm relatively small plots. A medium size tractor, 42 HP does fall into that range, is so large and expensive that it would be out of the question for most growers. I'd say you are looking at $30,000 plus worth of tractor." I recommended 42 HP because that is the low end of the true utility tractors. Smaller tractors don't have enough hydrulic capacity for a good loader, and often don't have hydraulic connections for 3-point impliments or loaders. As I understand it, some of the new 4-wheel drive tractors can do as much with less HP. Great, if you can afford new! We farm on 20 acres, but only work about 5. We paid $13,000 for our used International 464 (42 HP 3-cylinder diesel 2-wheel drive), a great International self mouting loader, a nearly new 5' John Deere tiller with ground wheels, and a tilt trailer big enough to haul the tractor with the loader mounted. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 13 10:01:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA12269 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21781 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:52:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA11950; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:50:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09621 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:20:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.46] (pm3shep1-163-46.intrepid.net [209.190.163.46]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23501 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:20:43 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <376341DF.18D5@teleport.com> References: <99Jun11.140933cdt.26900@mint.cwb.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:18:56 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: Re: So what is a spader? Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 377 Will, how slow do you go? Tortella recommends .3 mph. I don't know of any tractors capable of moving that slowly w/o the addition of a 'creeper kit.' (Here's hoping that you do know of 20 year old 42hp model that WILL pull that slowly! :-) Thanks for your recent posts. -Allan Balliett >Thanks for the background. > >I don't know if I said this anywhere, but we used a 5 or 6' spader on a >friend's David Brown tractor (it can go REALLY slowly) with fine >results. I believe it is about 40 HP (PTO) > >We rent a 21 HP John Deere 4-wheel drive with hydrostatic transmission >to use our 3' spader. We can control the fineness of the bed by >controlling the speed we travel - the slower we go the finer the bed >surface. If we want to we could leave a powder surface, though we never >have. > >Will Newman II >Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. Archives to BD Now! are located at: http://csf.colorado.edu/biodynamics/ To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 13 22:51:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19475 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09717 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA15699; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:40:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.thestreet.com (smtp.thestreet.com [208.241.190.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11134 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:05:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jherr ([207.38.252.25]) by smtp.thestreet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58593U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id com; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:49:23 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990613180158.00fc9420@mail.thestreet.com> X-Sender: Jherr@mail.thestreet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:02:01 +0000 To: osalt@teleport.com, "W. Bart Hunter" From: Jeff Herr Subject: Re: So what is a spader? Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 378 And for our part, we, too, farm about five acres on a 20-acre site. This spring we purchased a 1983 Massey Ferguson 245. It's rated, I believe, at 42 horse. We bought it for $4500. It has lots of hours but the diesel engine is running very strong. And for what it's worth, the power of this workhorse has come into play many times so far. We're very pleased with our decision on this machine (not something I often say about machines!). So a smaller operation can find a machine like this if they spend the time on the road looking, like we did. -- Jeff The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA 98014 At 10:42 PM 6/12/99 -0700, Will Newman II wrote: >W. Bart Hunter wrote (in part): > >"I don't have clue as to what a spader is. But I have to question the >notion that a 42 HP (horse power) tractor is a valid goal for the small >CSA farmer. In fact most tractors I've use have had far less horse power >then that. I do agree with the four wheel drive. The problem I see is >that most, but certainly not all members this list farm relatively small >plots. A medium size tractor, 42 HP does fall into that range, is so >large and expensive that it would be out of the question for most >growers. I'd say you are looking at $30,000 plus worth of tractor." > >I recommended 42 HP because that is the low end of the true utility >tractors. Smaller tractors don't have enough hydrulic capacity for a >good loader, and often don't have hydraulic connections for 3-point >impliments or loaders. As I understand it, some of the new 4-wheel drive >tractors can do as much with less HP. Great, if you can afford new! > >We farm on 20 acres, but only work about 5. > >We paid $13,000 for our used International 464 (42 HP 3-cylinder diesel >2-wheel drive), a great International self mouting loader, a nearly new >5' John Deere tiller with ground wheels, and a tilt trailer big enough >to haul the tractor with the loader mounted. > >Will Newman II >Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 13 22:55:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19523 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10579 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA16007; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:45:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13355 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:55:59 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (3875) by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id dHMBa13485 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:53:14 EDT Subject: Re: Natural Fly Control To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 379 Hi Marv, When considering natural fly control my approach is to stop them using a multifaceted method which decreases populations at every stage. Competition, predation and habitat are equally important considerations when dealing with pests. Trapping breeding adults is a great start as is cleaning up litter and hot composting it to kill the larva. An oscillating fan in your barn is also a good idea. If those measures don't decrease your populations to a tolerable level. Then consider buying fly parasitic wasps from an insectary and stretching a large white sticky trap above the barn doorways. The fly parasites are most effective if you have them sent monthly during fly season (between the two frost dates) and spread them in the littering areas and around the compost piles. After a couple of years you will have established a self perpetuating colony of parasites so you can stop buying them. We have several stink baited screened traps as well as the sticky traps to catch the adults. A six inch by 300 foot roll lasts a couple of years and catches as many as the stink bait traps. We also build habitat for barn swallows and bats outside the buildings. Although they seem more interested in mosquitoes and crane flies than filth breeding flies. Their acrobattic flights are always a joy to watch. We still have flies. But they are kept at a tolerable population even though there are great breeding opportunities for them on our farm. There must be a reason for these nuisances. Rather than eliminating them, we just strive for tolerable levels. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jun 14 08:32:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA23390 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16030 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA07627; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:19:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07552 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:18:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Sympatico.sympatico.ca (ppp13939.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.163.178]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA26399 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990614082926.0072e884@pop1.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1qbem96@pop1.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:29:26 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Hilary Chop Subject: Blasted Potato Beetle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 380 Has anyone every heard of potato beetles eating onions!?!?! They're eating the stalks right off, which is scaring me away from planting any leeks. And what would one do about an infestation, and I mean infestation of cutworms? It has been extremely dry here, which is bringing them to the surface. No irrigation. Help! Hilary From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jun 14 14:28:32 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01246 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA21330 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01692; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:07:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.interhop.net (root@mail2.auracom.net [165.154.140.22]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01582 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dp96.interhop.net (dp96.interhop.net [209.5.48.96]) by mail.interhop.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA04004 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906141806.OAA04004@mail.interhop.net> X-Sender: leppinger@mail.interhop.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Eppinger Subject: Re: Blasted Potato Beetle Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 381 Never seen a potatoe beetle eat onions ! In fact I believe that onions like garlic repell potatoe beetles. We too have a severe problem with the black cutworm. I have asked for advise everywhere and some of the suggestions that came up were: -pick them by hand during the early morning hours, they should be just below the soil surface near the stem. Look for freshly damages plants and start digging. -Beneficial nematodes (Steiner..) are supposed to work, but depending on where you are they are not able to survive the winter. They are expensive too. We just spent about $ 600 and I can't say it has been worth it. -Bran meal and corn meal sprinkeled around the base of the plants is supposed to make the cutworms eat them, which will make them bloat and die. -diamataceous earth is supposed to help as long as you can get them to ingest it We tried the nematodes and spent a lot of time hand picking the grubs first thing in the morning (on 8 acres). It looks like we have it under control now with less damage happening. But 10 days ago we were loosing entire plantings overnight. What is interesting is that these black cutworms haven't touched the corn, despite it supposedly being one of their favorite foods. The reason might be that we plant corn mixed with oats, to keep the birds from pulling it. Maybe the cutworms are repelled by the oats. In fact they seem to eat everything here but grasses. Let me know if you find out any other method that helps. Lorenz / Switch Farm, Campbellville, Ontario At 08:29 14/06/99 -0700, you wrote: >Has anyone every heard of potato beetles eating onions!?!?! They're eating >the stalks right off, which is scaring me away from planting any leeks. > >And what would one do about an infestation, and I mean infestation of >cutworms? It has been extremely dry here, which is bringing them to the >surface. No irrigation. > >Help! >Hilary > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jun 14 14:56:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01982 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28564 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA03991; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:37:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03438 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:29:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26887>; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:33:54 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Eppinger cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Message-Id: <99Jun14.133354cdt.26887@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:27:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Blasted Potato Beetle (ctr) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 382 You wrote: ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA17043 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09978; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:54:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09672 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:51:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:51:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906141951.OAA09672@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 29579 invoked from network); 14 Jun 1999 19:51:46 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as006-32.iquest.net (HELO iq-ind-as006-119.iquest.net) (209.43.56.32) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 1999 19:51:46 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: osalt@teleport.com From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: So what is a spader? Cc: "W. Bart Hunter" , csa-l@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 383 We looked at tractors for years--waiting until we had the cash and knew for sure what we wanted. I love my Belarus 35 hp. Bought it brand new, custom set up, Memo front loader and all for $11 thousand (including delivery). If you can find a used one--even better. Another $100 bought us an old rolling tine cultivator (big enough for 6 of what we needed. Cut it down and set it up for our 44" rows. Pretty cheap for a new tractor and a cultivator that makes the beds look had weeded. At 10:42 PM 6/12/99 -0700, Will Newman II wrote: >W. Bart Hunter wrote (in part): > >"I don't have clue as to what a spader is. But I have to question the >notion that a 42 HP (horse power) tractor is a valid goal for the small >CSA farmer. In fact most tractors I've use have had far less horse power >then that. I do agree with the four wheel drive. The problem I see is >that most, but certainly not all members this list farm relatively small >plots. A medium size tractor, 42 HP does fall into that range, is so >large and expensive that it would be out of the question for most >growers. I'd say you are looking at $30,000 plus worth of tractor." > >I recommended 42 HP because that is the low end of the true utility >tractors. Smaller tractors don't have enough hydrulic capacity for a >good loader, and often don't have hydraulic connections for 3-point >impliments or loaders. As I understand it, some of the new 4-wheel drive >tractors can do as much with less HP. Great, if you can afford new! > >We farm on 20 acres, but only work about 5. > >We paid $13,000 for our used International 464 (42 HP 3-cylinder diesel >2-wheel drive), a great International self mouting loader, a nearly new >5' John Deere tiller with ground wheels, and a tilt trailer big enough >to haul the tractor with the loader mounted. > >Will Newman II >Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jun 14 19:58:25 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07007 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21907 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27445; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:46:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.interhop.net (root@mail2.auracom.net [165.154.140.22]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27365 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:45:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dp19.interhop.net (dp19.interhop.net [209.5.48.19]) by mail.interhop.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA18859 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906142345.TAA18859@mail.interhop.net> X-Sender: leppinger@mail.interhop.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Eppinger Subject: Re: Blasted Potato Beetle (ctr) Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 384 At 13:27 14/06/99 -0500, you wrote: >You wrote: > > >A) so do the birds eat the cutworms? > >B) Or do the birds gorge themselves on the oats & leave the corn? > >C) Or do the cutworms eat the oats & die? > I really don't know what the cutworms do and why it may affect them. As for the birds (crows, they usually pull up the corn as they like to eat the seed. They don't like the oat seed though and seem to try every planting only once. Since the oats usually germinate ahead of the corn, the crows will pull up a few to discover they don't like the oats and leave the plot alone afterwards. It really works, we used to loose entire plantings to the crows, tried fishing line which didn't help until somebody suggested the oats thing. To this point I have been mixing the oat and corn seed and seeding them together, which means that we are often left to handweed the oats later on. Next year I'll experiment with planting corn with a row of oats inbetween. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 15 13:41:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22623 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA20785 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA20136; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:29:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web808.mail.yahoo.com (web808.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA20016 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:28:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990615173201.9982.rocketmail@web808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.202.222.114] by web808.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:32:01 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:32:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Re: So what is a spader? To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 385 I have been seeing this question alot, and I feel that I should let people know about a book that's put out by the Sustainable Agriculture Network (SAN) called, "Steel in the Field: A Farmers Guide to Weed Management Tools". It was published in 1997 and is available through SAN. I work for SAN, but I also interested in developing my own CSA in the next couple of years. I have heard great reviews by those who are familiar with farm machinery and those who aren't at conferences around the country. It has lots of pictures and lots of information on topics like "how to comply with erosion-prevention plans, how to remain profitable and how to manage residue and moisture loss." For more information about the book, go to http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/ This book is a must for anyone looking to reduce or replace pesticide inputs. Index, contact list, detailed illustrations and tool source list included. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 15 14:34:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23833 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02109 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA24357; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:23:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from premier1.premier1.net (root@premier1.premier1.net [206.40.134.38]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24295 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:23:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from premier1 (red-1-112.premier1.net [207.149.54.112]) by premier1.premier1.net (8.8.6/8.7) with SMTP id LAA24340 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906151820.LAA24340@premier1.premier1.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: mjb@premier1.net To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:24:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Natural Fly Control Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 386 > Reply-to: "Marv Hughes" <@mail.tds.net> > From: "Marv Hughes" > To: > Subject: Natural Fly Control > Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:54:40 -0500 > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB4FC.A509E540 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Would like to hear if any of you have any good ways/ideas on how to = > control flies in the barn. I have goats and for some reason this year = > the fly population in the stable area has gotten out of control. I am = > milking the goats and do not want to use pesticides (wouldn't use it = > anyway). I'm using a baited fly catcher (a foul smelling solution that = > attracts the flies) and it's catching quite a few but I still have far = > to many. I know good fly control comes from good farm habits so I = > always compost my manure, keep the compost pile a good distance from the = > barn, never spead manure directly onto the fields and keep all feed = > covered. Don't know what happened and could use suggestions. =20 > > Thanks =20 > > Marv Hughes =20 > Badger Botanical Farms > hughesm@bbw.tds.net > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB4FC.A509E540 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > >
    Would like to hear if any of you = > have any good=20 > ways/ideas on how to control flies in the barn.  I have goats and = > for some=20 > reason this year the fly population in the stable area has gotten out of = > > control.  I am milking the goats and do not want to use pesticides=20 > (wouldn't use it anyway).  I'm using a baited fly catcher (a foul = > smelling=20 > solution that attracts the flies) and it's catching quite a few but I = > still have=20 > far to many.  I know good fly control comes from good farm habits = > so I=20 > always compost my manure, keep the compost pile a good distance from the = > barn,=20 > never spead manure directly onto the fields and keep all feed covered. = > Don't=20 > know what happened and could use suggestions.    = >
    >
     
    >
    Thanks    = >
    >
     
    >
    Marv = > Hughes   
    >
    Badger Botanical Farms
    >
    href=3D"mailto:hughesm@bbw.tds.net">hughesm@bbw.tds.net
    >
     
    > > ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB4FC.A509E540-- > > Hi Mary, Try some parasitics. Those guys love flie larvae. I don't know where you are so I don't know if these people are close or not, but I think they ship all over the country. Rincon-Vivota Insectary, Inc. 1-800-248-2847 bugnet@rinconvitova.com Good luck Michaele Blakely Growing Things Carnation Wa From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 15 15:57:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA26340 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21857 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA29854; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:42:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29785; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:41:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Paorganic@aol.com Received: from Paorganic@aol.com (8047) by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id tYBAa24282; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:40:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4ae69b23.24980624@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:40:20 EDT Subject: Re: Natural Fly Control To: mjb@premier1.net, owner-csa-l@prairienet.org, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 387 A lot of our certified organic dairies in PA have had good luck with the wide sticky tape you put up inside your barn. Most ag supply stores carry it. Also, you can make a trap with feed sacks that your animals walk through when they come into the barn. The flies get brushed off and stay outside. Leslie Zuck PA Certified Organic From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 15 17:35:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA28891 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14965 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA07942; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:24:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA07805 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:23:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 12060 invoked from network); 15 Jun 1999 21:23:18 -0000 Received: from i48-42-40.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO john) (216.26.63.40) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 1999 21:23:18 -0000 Message-ID: <005601beb774$e1879100$e23d1ad8@john> From: "John Madsen" To: "csa csa" Subject: Questions about Tee tape and lay flat lines. Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:19:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 388 We are in the process of installing a drip system with a buried main line, layflat hose as the header and tee tape coming off the layflat. Our question is what does one do with the tee tape and layflat when a bed or beds needs to be tilled. The irrigation sales fellow said it was not a good idea to run over the layflat. So does one rip the hole thing out to prepare a bed? Do you lay ply wood down? Any Ideas are greatly appreciated John and Andrea Kings Valley Gardens From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 15 21:08:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA00835 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA24803 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA21376; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:57:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA21328 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:57:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 1773 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 00:57:01 -0000 Received: from i48-16-41.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO john) (216.26.5.233) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 00:57:01 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01beb792$bc72c920$e9051ad8@john> From: "John Madsen" To: "csa csa" Subject: test Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:54:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 389 test From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 15 21:11:17 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA00922 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA22193 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA20063; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:36:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA20000 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:35:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 3058 invoked from network); 16 Jun 1999 00:35:36 -0000 Received: from i48-16-41.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO john) (216.26.5.233) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 1999 00:35:36 -0000 Message-ID: <000301beb78f$bea2cfe0$e9051ad8@john> From: "John Madsen" To: "csa csa" Subject: Tee tape and layflat hose Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:32:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 390 We are in the process of installing a drip system with a buried main line, layflat hose as the header and tee tape coming off the layflat. Our question is what does one do with the tee tape and layflat when a bed or beds needs to be tilled. The irrigation sales fellow said it was not a good idea to run over the layflat. So does one rip the hole thing out to prepare a bed? Do you lay ply wood down? Any Ideas are greatly appreciated John and Andrea Kings Valley Gardens From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 07:20:50 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA05721 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26445 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28494; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 06:09:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28317 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 06:03:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.50] (pm3shep2-163-98.intrepid.net [209.190.163.98]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13167 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:03:09 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:05:43 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: OFF: Pricing Specialty Crops Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 391 (This is the sort of thing that drives me nuts!:-) Does anyone have experience pricing GARLIC SCAPES for restaurant or farm market sales? And, do you happen to know the 'standard' for 'age' and what not? Incidentally, is there a farmer's market discussion list 'out there'? Or one that focuses on 'specialty crops'? Thanks so much for your time! -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 09:13:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA08761 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA14773 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03153; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:02:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02764 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:56:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (akron-216-196-24-1.raex.com [216.196.24.1]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA00467 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002101beb989$b2f34ca0$0f18c4d8@default> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: re: Pricing Specialty Crops Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:54:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 392 I have a sad feeling that the word scapes refers to the imature garlic blossoms that we always call bubels here. The sad part is that we have never viewed them as a product and there is 100# of them on the compost right now. But I just had a thought, maybe scapes are the "green onion" stage from seed the first year, the predominant weed in our gardens right now. Those green onion size garlics our garlic grower friends bundle up in a rubber band just like green onions and sell them for a similar price. I too will be glad to hear any enlightening thing anyone has to say about this subject. Carol Busson Dragonfly Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 11:22:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11373 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17924 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA11621; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:58:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA11526 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:57:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906181457.JAA11526@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 299509652; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:57:31 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "carol busson" , "CSA list" Subject: Re: Pricing Specialty Crops Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:29:08 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 393 We call them bulbils here, but have heard scape used to describe the "heads" we get on hard neck garlic of certain types. Our chef/member loves them and uses them, deepfried, as a garnish that noone can figure out when it shows up on their plate...Since we clip them off to increase garlic bulb size, and since they grow so very slowly if planted, we simply give them to our chef/member as a freebee. Which he very much appreciates. It is one of the things that keeps him coming back. To sell them I would suggest a high price, perhaps higher than organic garlic. It is a special thing and not available from the wholesaler that supplies the restaurant. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: carol busson > To: CSA list > Subject: re: Pricing Specialty Crops > Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 8:54 AM > > I have a sad feeling that the word scapes refers to the imature garlic > blossoms that we always call bubels here. The sad part is that we have > never viewed them as a product and there is 100# of them on the compost > right now. But I just had a thought, maybe scapes are the "green onion" > stage from seed the first year, the predominant weed in our gardens right > now. Those green onion size garlics our garlic grower friends bundle up in > a rubber band just like green onions and sell them for a similar price. I > too will be glad to hear any enlightening thing anyone has to say about this > subject. > > Carol Busson > Dragonfly Farm > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 11:35:34 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11664 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20964 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA13232; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:22:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13179 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:22:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26886>; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:28:10 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" cc: "carol busson" , "CSA list" Message-Id: <99Jun18.102810cdt.26886@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:20:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Scapes/Bulbils what to do with (was Pricing Specialty Crops) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 394 I use them as seed garlic (the green onion things that come up). The hard neck garlic that they produce tends to have fewer but larger cloves. I didn't know that you could clip them off without hurting the garlic bulb tho... What stage do you do that at? When its a blossom; before the blossom emerges; when the bulblets form? ...And what do you deepfry? The bulblets; the green onions that they make; the looped blossom? "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" on 06/18/99 09:29:08 AM To: "carol busson" , "CSA list" cc: Subject: Re: Pricing Specialty Crops We call them bulbils here, but have heard scape used to describe the "heads" we get on hard neck garlic of certain types. Our chef/member loves them and uses them, deepfried, as a garnish that noone can figure out when it shows up on their plate...Since we clip them off to increase garlic bulb size, and since they grow so very slowly if planted, we simply give them to our chef/member as a freebee. Which he very much appreciates. It is one of the things that keeps him coming back. To sell them I would suggest a high price, perhaps higher than organic garlic. It is a special thing and not available from the wholesaler that supplies the restaurant. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: carol busson > To: CSA list > Subject: re: Pricing Specialty Crops > Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 8:54 AM > > I have a sad feeling that the word scapes refers to the imature garlic > blossoms that we always call bubels here. The sad part is that we have > never viewed them as a product and there is 100# of them on the compost > right now. But I just had a thought, maybe scapes are the "green onion" > stage from seed the first year, the predominant weed in our gardens right > now. Those green onion size garlics our garlic grower friends bundle up in > a rubber band just like green onions and sell them for a similar price. I > too will be glad to hear any enlightening thing anyone has to say about this > subject. > > Carol Busson > Dragonfly Farm > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 11:48:45 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11921 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25109 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA14375; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:37:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14313 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:37:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.8.149.216] [209.8.149.209] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.04) id A8C31572011A; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:41:55 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <99Jun18.102810cdt.26886@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:38:41 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: Scapes/Bulbils what to do with (was Pricing Specialty Crops) Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 395 Our shareholders love them. They take a little explaining and a sexier name than 'scapes' We tell them they are 'garlic flowers' or just 'garlic tops'. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 12:46:02 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13487 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08471 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA17539; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:30:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from x13.boston.juno.com (x13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17314 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:27:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from brike1@juno.com) by x13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EDEK68EJ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:26:22 EDT To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:30:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Scapes/Bulbils what to do with (was Pricing Specialty Crops) Message-ID: <19990618.093006.-196861.0.brike1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 12-13,17-18,20-23,25-31 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: michael j isensee Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 396 Out here in Oregon I believe what you are talking about is called "garlic spears" and are marketed as a specialty food item throughout this time of year. They appear in approx 1# bunches in our natural foods chain Natures (owned by Wild Oats) from a farm near the coast and sell for close to $4/#. The farm attaches a description of them as being similar to asparagus crossed with garlic and recommends they be steamed or sauteed and used as a side dish or addition to stir fries, pasta dishes, or anywhere that green garlic might be used. The bunches have 15-25 spears with unopened flower buds and are quite tasty. I used some myself just last week in a pasta with baby artichokes, baby carrots (thinnings from the farm), green onion, olives and walnuts tossed with pasta shells, olive oil, and balsalmic vinegar and served cold. very tasty, and the spears add a distinctive crunch and flavor. They seem like a emminantly useable product that people should be passing on to their subscribers or specialty buyers and valuing highly. The Oregonian had an article in its food section about them and the raves chefs have for them in this region. have a great farm day. I will specnd it at my other job, keeping the corporate organic produce looking fantastic at Wild Oats. michael On Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:38:41 -0400 Leigh Hauter writes: >Our shareholders love them. They take a little explaining and a >sexier >name than 'scapes' We tell them they are 'garlic flowers' or just >'garlic >tops'. > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 18:10:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22235 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16406 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA10038; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:59:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09954 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:58:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from batty.excite.com ([199.172.152.107]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990618215811.TAID1890.ewey@batty.excite.com> for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:58:11 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Scapes/Bulbils what to do with (was Pricing Specialty Crops) Message-Id: <929743091.29372.717@excite.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:58:11 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 397 I love garlic scsapes and have been pickling them with a bit of curry for a couple of years. This is the first year we have had enuff to sell but no takers here locally so I have been giving them to the CSA members woth instructions to use them sauteed, pickled, in salads, stir fries etc. A Chef i deal with knows then as Garlic Chives. I have priced mine at $2lb or $11 a bushel but have yet to sell any ( I have given away several pounds to anyone who seems interested.) Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 18:38:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22721 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:38:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA21167 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11645; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:28:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pws.gamewood.net (pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11593 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:28:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fox.gamewood.net (0@fox.gamewood.net [206.229.248.28]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10392 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:27:31 -0400 Received: from pavilion (pts0105.gamewood.net [206.229.249.36]) by fox.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA27708 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:27:30 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01beb9f3$9cd8d4c0$24f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "CSA list" Subject: Scapes/bubils Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:32:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEB9B8.EFA8F120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 398 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEB9B8.EFA8F120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, maybe I'm not the only one with this question by now, BUT WHAT ARE = GARLIC SCAPES/BULBILS???? Seems that we have several different people = talking about different things with the same name. I have Garlic chives in my herb gardens, and they are completely = different from garlic, they look and grow just like common chives only = they have flat leaves instead of hollow leaves like the common chives. Are we talking about the curled flower stem that I pick off the garlic = plants (to increase bulb growth)? Never having let the flower buds stay = on my garlic plants, forgive my ignorance, are we talking about planting = the top part and getting a result like scallions? Regretfully Ignorant, Amy Johnson Long Island VA akjedj@gamewood.net ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEB9B8.EFA8F120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    OK, maybe I'm not the only one with this question by = now, BUT=20 WHAT ARE GARLIC SCAPES/BULBILS???? Seems that we have several different = people=20 talking about different things with the same name.
     
    <A Chef
    i deal with knows then as Garlic=20 Chives.>
     
    I have Garlic chives in my herb gardens, and they = are=20 completely different from garlic, they look and grow just like common = chives=20 only they have flat leaves instead of hollow leaves like the common=20 chives.
     
    Are we talking about the curled flower stem that I = pick off=20 the garlic plants (to increase bulb growth)? Never having let the flower = buds=20 stay on my garlic plants, forgive my ignorance, are we talking about = planting=20 the top part and getting a result like scallions?
     
    Regretfully Ignorant,
    Amy Johnson
    Long Island VA
    akjedj@gamewood.net
    ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEB9B8.EFA8F120-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 19:12:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA23219 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27186 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA13477; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:01:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13421 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:01:00 -0500 (CDT) From: HMSTDFRMS@aol.com Received: from HMSTDFRMS@aol.com (303) by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id iCWHa24589; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:59:42 EDT Subject: Re: Scapes/bubils To: akjedj@gamewood.net, CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 399 We sell the scapes for $2/pound. The customers love them, (after a little training!). Linda Homestead Farms From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 18 21:18:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25128 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:18:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18743 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA20455; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:08:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20372 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:07:28 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com (14376) by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id oZIBa01897; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:06:15 EDT Subject: Re: Scapes/Bulbils what to do with (was Pricing Specialty Crops) To: brike1@juno.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 400 We snap off the elephant garlic tops with stems, bundle with a rubber band, for our subscribers. Those who had them last year grabbed them up. The new folks went huh? I was told not to do it with the real stiff neck garlic, they need the tops for better bulb production. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 19 10:06:08 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00910 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA05688 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16486; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:55:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16422 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:54:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.110] (pm3shep3-163-135.intrepid.net [209.190.163.135]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00316 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:54:12 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:47:33 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: Re: Scapes/Bulbils what to do with (was Pricing Specialty Crops) Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 401 >I was told not to do it with the real stiff neck garlic, >they need the tops for better bulb production. Actually, I was told just the opposite...but I can't find me 'Growing...Garlic" book right now. -Allan From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 19 11:44:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01864 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18874 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19935; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:33:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19876 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:32:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 27102 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 15:32:53 -0000 Received: from a48-01-22.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.22) (216.26.11.22) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 15:32:53 -0000 Message-ID: <376BB879.3495@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:34:20 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allan Balliett CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: OFF: Pricing Specialty Crops References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 402 On the West Coast we usually go by the daily organic market price list (I think it comes out of the San Francisco Bay Area). The local restaurants (Portland/Salem Oregon) which buy organic seem to have access to this list - probably from the Internet. There is also a current price list available from an Oregon based organic distributor (Orgnically Grown Co-op - OGC - Ladybug Brand). These are the base to start with. Often local growers get a premium (local, fresher, no shippng charges for the buyer, etc.) It helps to know where you are (geographically) to answer questions like this. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 19 12:00:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01976 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20992 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20601; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:49:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20553 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:49:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 230 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 15:48:58 -0000 Received: from a48-01-22.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.22) (216.26.11.22) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 15:48:58 -0000 Message-ID: <376BBC40.1FEB@teleport.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:50:27 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amy and Eric Johnson CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Scapes/bubils References: <000c01beb9f3$9cd8d4c0$24f9e5ce@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 403 Amy Johnson wrote:"...Regretfully Ignorant" We're all ignorant. We each specialize in our own areas of ignorance. The trick is knowing what areas you have achieved ignorance in. I have been speaking in public for many years. I am often introduced an an "expert" in one field or another. It has always made me uncomfortable, and I have often said so. As a result, I have been given many definitions for "expert": a has-been drip under pressure (ex-spurt), anyone more than 20 miles from home with slides, etc. After a half-day presentation to Master Gardeners I was finally given the definition I am comfortable with: "An expert is someone who has made a great number of mistakes in a very narrow field." I am an expert in a number of fields! So, probably, are you. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 20 08:47:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA13254 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26918 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA01662; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:36:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01610 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:36:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ants.excite.com ([199.172.152.146]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990620123538.XEAK1825.kuku@ants.excite.com>; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 05:35:38 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: "Amy and Eric Johnson" , csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Scapes/bubils Message-Id: <929882138.5178.545@excite.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 05:35:38 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.103 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 404 Amy, you are correct that garlic chives are true chives, it's just that I do work with a chef that calls the scapes garlic chives. Yes we are talking about the flower stalk on the garlic plants. BTW I was successful selling several pounds in Indiana yesterday at a farmer's Market. No one knew what they were but several adventerous souls bought ours for $2.00lb. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 20 10:36:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13999 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA12269 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05255; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:26:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pws.gamewood.net (pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05214 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:25:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fox.gamewood.net (0@fox.gamewood.net [206.229.248.28]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01440 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:24:49 -0400 Received: from pavilion (pts0306.gamewood.net [206.229.249.69]) by fox.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15588 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:24:48 -0400 Message-ID: <001201bebb42$82f3bd40$45f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "CSA list" Subject: scapes Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:29:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEBB07.D5CB7AC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 405 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEBB07.D5CB7AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I guess I'd better stop putting those scapes on the compost pile = after I pull them off my garlic! :) Thanks for informing me of better = uses for them! Amy Johnson Long Island VA ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEBB07.D5CB7AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Well, I guess I'd better stop putting those scapes = on the=20 compost pile after I pull them off my garlic! :) Thanks for informing me = of=20 better uses for them!
     
    Amy Johnson
    Long Island VA
    ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEBB07.D5CB7AC0-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 20 16:45:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA17664 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02460 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA19631; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:34:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19574 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:34:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [151.196.126.35] (client196-126-35.bellatlantic.net [151.196.126.35]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA23499 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906202037.QAA23499@smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:18:45 -0500 Subject: CSA - numbers increasing From: "Steven McFadden" To: "CSA-L" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 406 Hi, Here's an item from today's Boston Sunday Globe - page 85 -- that sheds some light on the burgeoning number of CSAs in the country -- an issue discussed from time to time on this list. I estimate as many as 1,500 CSAs in the US this season -- but am often told my estimate it too high. Naturally, without a national data base no one knows for sure. But after reading this gbreif news item, i wonder if my estimate is low. - Steven McFadden "LAZY MAN'S LETTUCE - instead of revving up the rototiller, hundreds of new Englanders are becoming 'shareholders', paying farmers up from for fresh produce all summer. More than 100 Community Supported Agriculture programs have sprouted in Massachusetts. Ag Commissioner Jay Healy has put his land where his mouth is, leasing out part of his family farm in Charelmont, MA, to a CSA with 50 members. Healy declined to commend on whether the movement could lead to a dreaded zucchini shortage this summer." From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 20 21:27:30 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA20336 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA12832 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00732; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:16:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00651 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:15:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA14693; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:11:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2b-81.ix.netcom.com(209.110.253.81) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014663; Sun Jun 20 20:11:33 1999 Message-ID: <001c01bebb82$86a5ada0$51fd6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Steven McFadden" , "CSA-L" Subject: Re: CSA - numbers increasing Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:08:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 407 Hi from one of those 100? Massachusetts CSAs. Green Hill Farm of Shrewsbury, Ma. We just attended as exhibitors the 4th annual Massachusetts Market Place this pass week-end. Jay Healy was there. We had signed up to promote our CSA and then about 2 weeks after sending in my non refundable admission fee we sold out our membership. So we went actually it was fun, no pressure since we were sold out got to promote CSA in general, got ourselves quoted in the Worcester, Ma paper, won a basket in a raffle, and came home with 5 free chicken from another exhibitor. Plus did get a local family who wants to sign up next year because they saw the newspaper article. The Massachusetts Dept of Ag is very helpful(they gave up two free signs Massachusetts Grown and Fresher) and is compiling a CSA list. Was the Boston Globe Article talking about the above Market Place? Beth -----Original Message----- From: Steven McFadden To: CSA-L Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 4:34 PM Subject: CSA - numbers increasing >Hi, >Here's an item from today's Boston Sunday Globe - page 85 -- that sheds some >light on the burgeoning number of CSAs in the country -- an issue discussed >from time to time on this list. > >I estimate as many as 1,500 CSAs in the US this season -- but am often told >my estimate it too high. Naturally, without a national data base no one >knows for sure. But after reading this gbreif news item, i wonder if my >estimate is low. > >- Steven McFadden > >"LAZY MAN'S LETTUCE - instead of revving up the rototiller, hundreds of new >Englanders are becoming 'shareholders', paying farmers up from for fresh >produce all summer. More than 100 Community Supported Agriculture programs >have sprouted in Massachusetts. Ag Commissioner Jay Healy has put his land >where his mouth is, leasing out part of his family farm in Charelmont, MA, >to a CSA with 50 members. Healy declined to commend on whether the movement >could lead to a dreaded zucchini shortage this summer." > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 22 11:39:43 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA24988 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11379 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA00524; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:24:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp4.mindspring.com (smtp4.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00375 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:22:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ms121960 (user-2ive39n.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.13.55]) by smtp4.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA10060 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:22:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001b01bebcc3$09835880$370df7a5@ms121960> From: "Sarah Milstein" To: "csa-l" Subject: Intern Wanted Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:22:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 408 Hello, CSA-listers. Roxbury Farm CSA is in need of an intern. I'd like to have the message below posted to SANET, but I don't subscribe to that list anymore. Could somebody who's on SANET post this message there? Btw, replies to the ad should go to roxbury@mhonline.net, *not* to me! Many thanks. Sarah Milstein ___________________________________________________ From: Jean-Paul Courtens and Sarah Shapiro >Intern Wanted >Roxbury Farm > > There is still one apprenticeship available at Roxbury Farm. Roxbury >offers opportunities to be involved in all aspects of production on a >well established, financially successful, mechanized farm, and to work >with and learn from a farmer with 20 years of growing experience and a >commitment to teaching. Several former apprentices have gone on to >start their own farms. > > Roxbury Farm is a 190-acre biodynamic farm near Hudson, NY with 25 >acres in vegetable production for a Community Supported Agriculture >(CSA) membership of 675 shareholders located in Manhattan, Albany, and >Columbia County, NY. Livestock provides for a portion of the farm's >fertility needs and supplies meat to our members. The farm has been >operated from its inception in 1990 by Jean-Paul Courtens, who is joined >in 1999 by Sarah Shapiro. > > Interns interact with the local farm community through our >participation in the Collaborative Regional Alliance for Farmer Training >(CRAFT) program, a six month program in which interns visit twelve >organic and biodynamic farms in the region. > > Roxbury Farm provides on-farm housing with a full kitchen and washing >machine, all farm food crops, a food purchasing budget, a $300/month >stipend, and Workers Compensation, for three interns during the growing >season. > > People with a strong interest and worth ethic should contact: Jean-Paul >Courtens or Sarah Shapiro at 518-851-2056, 518-851-3809, or write to us >at roxbury@mhonline.net or 81 Roxbury Road, Hudson, NY 12534 ASAP! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jun 23 18:47:02 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA29290 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13458 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA26124; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:35:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25999 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:33:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (akron-216-196-24-202.raex.com [216.196.24.202]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA02535 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004001bebdc8$30790920$d219c4d8@default> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: t-tape distributor Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:31:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 409 Hi folks, I would like to buy some t-tape for about an acre of squash. I have a catalog for Dripworks but wish I could find someone to buy it from who is not on the other side of the country from me. Does anyone know of a distributor near Ohio? I have the name of a place called Zimmerman Irrigation in PA but I don't know their phone number. I would be grateful for any names and numbers of irrigation supplies in this part of the world. Carol Busson Dragonfly Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 24 01:45:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA05625 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA27361 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA20823; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:34:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA20744 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:33:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 6798 invoked from network); 24 Jun 1999 05:33:25 -0000 Received: from i48-41-44.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO john) (216.26.62.236) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 1999 05:33:25 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01bebe02$a4e16700$ec3e1ad8@john> From: "John Madsen" To: "csa csa" Subject: Where is a good place to get cellophane bags ? Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:30:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 410 We are in mid western Oregon and were wondering if anyone knows a good source of large cellophane bags (6 x 9 and larger), and cellophane sleevesfor flowers? Who has the best prices and service? Thanks! John and Andrea Kings Valley Gardens From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jun 24 10:24:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11576 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA21599 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:14:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10456; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:12:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10368 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:12:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA20349 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:11:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-128.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.128) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020240; Thu Jun 24 09:10:51 1999 Message-ID: <002401bebe4a$e1d76680$80f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "csa csa" Subject: Wholesale baskets Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:07:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 411 Hi CSA group, We are looking for a wholesaler for baskets. Ordinary farm baskets not heavy gitt baskets. Last years supplier is out and won't have any for about a month. Thanks Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jun 25 00:49:49 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA00635 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA29260 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA08251; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:38:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA07976 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:32:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 6978 invoked from network); 25 Jun 1999 04:32:10 -0000 Received: from i48-14-04.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO john) (216.26.5.68) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 1999 04:32:10 -0000 Message-ID: <000901bebec3$3fc61980$44051ad8@john> From: "John Madsen" To: "csa csa" Subject: t-tape and water filters Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:29:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 412 I have a question about using t-tape and river water but some background first. We just installed a drip system using t-tape for the final delivery. We also installed a 100 micron filter (the type with plastic disks stacked ontop of each other) to filter the river water. Even though the water looks fairly clean, the filter clogs and reduces the water pressure after 6 hrs of usage. What micron size should we be using? How big in microns are the holes in the t-tape? Do people use pre filters and if so what type? Thanks! John & Andrea Kings Valley Gardens From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jun 26 20:26:40 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA01285 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19016 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:17:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA03830; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:15:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from frontiernet.net (node9.frontiernet.net [209.130.129.194]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03583 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:09:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from f2d2d1 (209-130-218-235.nas-1.roc.frontiernet.net [209.130.218.235]) by frontiernet.net (8.8.8a/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA51044 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:09:07 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:08:55 -0400 Message-ID: <01BEC00F.B810BE20.scassdon@frontiernet.net> From: Sarah Cass Donaldson To: "csa-l@prairienet.org" Subject: unsubscribe Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:01:52 -0400 Organization: Council Rock Consulting X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 1 TEXT Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 413 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 27 08:05:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA08229 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA00624 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA24629; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:54:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24570 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:54:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.153] (pm3shep1-163-42.intrepid.net [209.190.163.42]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18781 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:54:05 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:57:01 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: "Holding" produce Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 414 Howdy! As the summer squash and cukes start coming on, it's pretty clear that a lot of stuff will be too old or too big by distribution days. Is it 'fair' to pick cukes and zuchinni in advance and hold them for distribution day? I understand that cukes will keep well wrapped in plastic film and kept in the crisper. What's the standard way to 'hold' summer squash so they are as 'fresh' as possible come Thursday? Thanks -Allan Charles Town, WV From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 27 08:31:27 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA08449 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA03727 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA25378; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:17:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25330 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:17:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from flash.excite.com ([199.172.152.79]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990627121628.BGCJ29887.fortune@flash.excite.com> for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 05:16:28 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: "Holding" produce Message-Id: <930485788.17731.3@excite.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 05:16:28 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.72 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 415 I see no problem with your idea. Ideally we should pick the same day of pick-up but not many people want a 15lb zuke ( though if you have brits in your CSA they treasure such things and call them marrows-we got rid of many an oversized zuke to our british members last year). At our farm we have several picking days each week to insure that the squashes don't get over sized and everything is under 48hrs old at time of sale/distribution. We pick for the CSA either Wed. or Thursday morning for a Thursday pm pick-up. We also sell at 3 to 4 farmer's markets each week so we pick 4 times a week and it is rare that anything lasts on the plant long enough to get big. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 27 09:24:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA08828 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA10974 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27114; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:13:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26982 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:10:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.153] (pm3shep1-163-57.intrepid.net [209.190.163.57]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24987 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:10:24 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <930485788.17731.3@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:12:37 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: Re: "Holding" produce Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 416 Thanks for the encouragement, Lucy, Now if someone could confirm the 'how'! ;-) This year we have no market as an outlet and we have only one distribution day for the CSA. Half of our shareholders are delivered to. -Allan Balliett Charles Town, WV >I see no problem with your idea. Ideally we should pick the same day of >pick-up but not many people want a 15lb zuke ( though if you have brits in >your CSA they treasure such things and call them marrows-we got rid of many >an oversized zuke to our british members last year). At our farm we have >several picking days each week to insure that the squashes don't get over >sized and everything is under 48hrs old at time of sale/distribution. We >pick for the CSA either Wed. or Thursday morning for a Thursday pm pick-up. >We also sell at 3 to 4 farmer's markets each week so we pick 4 times a week >and it is rare that anything lasts on the plant long enough to get big. > Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 27 10:08:50 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09458 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21535 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA28535; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:57:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA28478 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:57:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:57:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906271357.IAA28478@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 17838 invoked from network); 27 Jun 1999 13:57:30 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as002-139.iquest.net (209.43.49.139) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 27 Jun 1999 13:57:30 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Allan Balliett From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: "Holding" produce Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 417 I "hold" cukes and zukes as need be for CSA, farmers markets and wholesale (as well as my own pickling which is over 100 quarts a year), and they do fine IF we: Pick them at their prime--not too old, not too young unless you are doing "babies." Wash in plenty of cool water--gently. I use a soft cloth on cukes, just rinse off the summer squash. Eat or discard anything with bruises, holes, or that you inadvertantly damage. Place them loosely and GENTLY into a large plastic container or box and refrigerate or put into a cooler with ice--replace ice when needed (don't let the ice touch the food!) and do NOT handle the boxes roughly. Their shelf life will be great this way. One bruise and the whole box becomes slime very quickly. For CSA I like to keep a 5 gallon pickle crock or 2 going--any small or even deformed cukes can be made into pickles and my CSA'ers, kids, grandkids and friends all head for the pickles the minute they get here. If we are lucky we have pickles from the previous year to share until the new ones are ready. (Though my interns found that stash this year and they are already gone!) There are no really good commercial organic pickles that I can find--certainly nothing that beats home made. If I had a commercial kitchen... If you need pickle recipes just ask, but good basic recipes are in the Ball Bluebook. The Biodynamic folks make some great pickles too. I like to add more of this or that--garlic, hot peppers, pickling spices... Summer squash can be pickled too. Once any of them are past their prime, they can be made into bread and butter pickles with great results. Although sweet pickles are not my favorite, my people like them on peanut butter sandwiches, grilled cheese, and in potato salads and such. For that matter, almost any veggie can be pickled or made into a relish. It's a great way to preserve them and really not much work. Overgrown zukes make great bread, patties and muffins. We are always teaching our customers how to use things up. Chocolate zucchini bread, Zucchini corn muffins,...you can hide the stuff in almost anything! At 09:12 AM 6/27/99 -0500, Allan Balliett wrote: >Thanks for the encouragement, Lucy, Now if someone could confirm the 'how'! ;-) > >This year we have no market as an outlet and we have only one distribution >day for the CSA. Half of our shareholders are delivered to. > >-Allan Balliett >Charles Town, WV > > >>I see no problem with your idea. Ideally we should pick the same day of >>pick-up but not many people want a 15lb zuke ( though if you have brits in >>your CSA they treasure such things and call them marrows-we got rid of many >>an oversized zuke to our british members last year). At our farm we have >>several picking days each week to insure that the squashes don't get over >>sized and everything is under 48hrs old at time of sale/distribution. We >>pick for the CSA either Wed. or Thursday morning for a Thursday pm pick-up. >>We also sell at 3 to 4 farmer's markets each week so we pick 4 times a week >>and it is rare that anything lasts on the plant long enough to get big. >> Lucy Goodman-Owsley >>Boulder Belt CSA >>New Paris, OH >>http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________________ >>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jun 27 10:57:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09940 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00226 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA00175; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:46:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00133 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:46:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA23307; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:45:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-41.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.41) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma023302; Sun Jun 27 09:45:23 1999 Message-ID: <002801bec0ab$36ae8460$29fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Allan Balliett" , "Cecilia Bowman" Cc: Subject: "Holding" produce and pickles Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:41:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 418 Ok! You've tempted us what is your recipe for pickles that are so good your interns ate them all :). I make a half sour pickle that we are very fond of, but I am always looking for more recipes. I two made relish last year, I mean what does one do when frost is looming around the corner and you have rows and rows of green tomatoes ( I will post that recipe if interested). A bit of a twist on zuccini bread: find a standard carrot cake recipe one that includes pineaple and substutite 1/2 zuc and carrot its good. Beth pickles and my CSA'ers, kids, grandkids and >friends all head for the pickles the minute they get here. If we are lucky >we have pickles from the previous year to share until the new ones are >ready. (Though my interns found that stash this year and they are already >gone!) There are no really good commercial organic pickles that I can >find--certainly nothing that beats home made. If I had a commercial kitchen... > >If you need pickle recipes just ask, but good basic recipes are in the Ball >Bluebook. The Biodynamic folks make some great pickles too. > >I like to add more of this or that--garlic, hot peppers, pickling spices... >Summer squash can be pickled too. Once any of them are past their prime, >they can be made into bread and butter pickles with great results. Although >sweet pickles are not my favorite, my people like them on peanut butter >sandwiches, grilled cheese, and in potato salads and such. > >For that matter, almost any veggie can be pickled or made into a relish. >It's a great way to preserve them and really not much work. > >Overgrown zukes make great bread, patties and muffins. We are always >teaching our customers how to use things up. Chocolate zucchini bread, >Zucchini corn muffins,...you can hide the stuff in almost anything! > >At 09:12 AM 6/27/99 -0500, Allan Balliett wrote: >>Thanks for the encouragement, Lucy, Now if someone could confirm the 'how'! ;-) >> >>This year we have no market as an outlet and we have only one distribution >>day for the CSA. Half of our shareholders are delivered to. >> >>-Allan Balliett >>Charles Town, WV >> >> >>>I see no problem with your idea. Ideally we should pick the same day of >>>pick-up but not many people want a 15lb zuke ( though if you have brits in >>>your CSA they treasure such things and call them marrows-we got rid of many >>>an oversized zuke to our british members last year). At our farm we have >>>several picking days each week to insure that the squashes don't get over >>>sized and everything is under 48hrs old at time of sale/distribution. We >>>pick for the CSA either Wed. or Thursday morning for a Thursday pm pick-up. >>>We also sell at 3 to 4 farmer's markets each week so we pick 4 times a week >>>and it is rare that anything lasts on the plant long enough to get big. >>> Lucy Goodman-Owsley >>>Boulder Belt CSA >>>New Paris, OH >>>http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________________ >>>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ >> >> >> >> >Cissy Bowman, >President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education >Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association >Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ >8364 S SR 39 >Clayton, IN 46118 >317-539-4317 >cvof@iquest.net > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jun 28 03:19:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA24803 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA06263 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 03:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA15765; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 02:02:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA15706 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 02:01:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 25017 invoked from network); 28 Jun 1999 07:01:08 -0000 Received: from a48-01-48.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.48) (216.26.11.48) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 1999 07:01:08 -0000 Message-ID: <37771E1B.60BE@teleport.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:02:55 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allan Balliett CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: "Holding" produce References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 419 We pick 5 days a week. We have a walk-in cooler, which is handy for holding some stuff, but we like to get things like cucumber and zucchini delivered within a day or two of picking. That's one of the reasons we went to two pickup days (before we started delivering). Another advantage ws that it cut down on disruptions from Harvest Shareholders who, when coming to pick up their harvest shares, wanted to wander around talk to everyone for a while. It also allowed Harvest Shareholders to select from two different days to pick up (they had to decide at the beginning of the season, though, and counldn't switch back and forth) When we went to delivery we decided to deliver on three days for much the same reason. We pick in the morning, our driver loads about 9:30 am and is done in about 5 hours. The rest of the crew works the farm the rest of the day. Three delivery days also means we don't have to harvest so much at one time, so (starting at 7 am, not 5 am) we can harvest the greens before the bitter sap rises, and everything is fresher (like cukes) and less likely to be bruised from a lot of handling (in to and out of storage, etc.). Beliece it or not, we try to work a 40 hour week, and pay overtime for any time over 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week. We figure it's time farm workers stop subsidizing everyone else. We do have optional Harvest Shareholder work days on Saturdays in July and August, and that's when we get to talk with our Harvest Shareholders and they get to know us - mostly a social thing so we don't feel pressured to get a lot done, and we're not picking for delivery the next day. HEY, CECELIA BOWMAN, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is interested in your pickle recipes. Please post them! Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jun 28 07:51:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA27730 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA17447 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA21830; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:38:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21750; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:37:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Paorganic@aol.com Received: from Paorganic@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 5IQSa05985 (14446); Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4c211629.24a8b819@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:35:53 EDT Subject: Re: t-tape distributor To: busson@raex.com, owner-csa-l@prairienet.org, CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 420 Zimmerman Irrigation is at 3550 Chambersburg Road, Biglerville, PA 17307. 717-337-2727; fax 717-337-1785. However, if you buy from them you'll get "hosed" on shipping costs, (a roll of T-tape is very heavy) so you might be better off ordering from Dripworks since they do not charge for shipping. I do not think Zimmerman has a catalog and they do not have all the stuff Dripworks has. If you know exactly what you need, you're okay. Otherwise it's kind of hard to place an order without a catalog. Maybe they have one, but I've ordered a lot from them (I pick it up) and I've never seen a catalog. Leslie PA Certified Organic From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jun 28 09:20:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29264 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA03625 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA25882; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:08:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25811; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:07:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 209.143.11.37 (hils-ras1-2-cs-9.dial.bright.net [209.143.11.37]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id JAA08318; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37777049.547F@bright.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:53:28 -0500 From: Marilyn Hiestand Reply-To: sssyfrs@bright.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paorganic@aol.com CC: busson@raex.com, owner-csa-l@prairienet.org, CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: t-tape distributor References: <4c211629.24a8b819@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 421 FYI, Zimmerman does have a catalog. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jun 28 10:44:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA01174 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20083 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01224; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:25:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01080 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:24:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:24:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906281424.JAA01080@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 23017 invoked from network); 28 Jun 1999 14:24:17 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as003-133.iquest.net (HELO iq-ind-as004-48.iquest.net) (209.43.53.133) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 28 Jun 1999 14:24:17 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Dan Hook" From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: "Holding" produce and pickles Cc: "Allan Balliett" , Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 422 OK--let me get several of my pickle recipes together and send them out. We do pickled green tomatoes (yum!) and a green tomato relish too. There are basically 3 ways to do quick dill pickles--brined in a crock, "refrigerator" pickles (neither are processed) and processed pickles. Refrigerator pickles are the quickest, but I don't think you can beat the flavor or crunch of brined ones so here's that recipe first: Brined Dill Pickles In a large crock (or glass jar) --I use an 8 gallon crock though a smaller one is easier to handle--place: half of your washed cukes (leave a little bit of stem on the ends) Pickling cukes work best, but we aren't picky about that... On top of the cukes place: a layer of grape leaves (optional), an ounce or so of pickling spices, a bunch of fresh or dried dill (dill seeds work if you don't have the whole plant), 5 peeled cloves of garlic, 1 tablespoon of black peppercorns a few hot peppers (if you like spicy pickles) Add the rest of the cukes and another layer of the above spices Bring to a boil in a non-aluminum pan: 1 pint vinegar (cider vinegar works best) 2 gallons of water 1 1/2 cups salt (canning salt--not table salt!) Stir until the salt is dissolved and pour, hot, over the cukes, etc., in the crock. There must be enough brine to cover the pickles--you may need to make more. (Brine keeps, so just keep any extra in a jar until your next batch.) Cover the pickles with a plate that is large enough to hold them down under the brine. Traditionally, pickle makers used a clean rock as a weight. I use a jar filled with water. Anything clean and heavy enough to hold the plate down will do. Cover the crock with a cloth. Don't overfill the crock as during the process the brine might overflow. The crock needs to be in a place that is about 70 degrees or so. I keep mine in the kitchen and it works fine. We don't air condition so the temp gets higher than 70 but if it's comfortable for you it's ususally ok for the pickles too. Check the pickles daily. After awhile a scum starts to develop--keep it skimmed off and keep any renegade cukes under the brine. In 2-3 weeks, test a pickle by cutting it open. If it is the same color throughout, with no white spots, they are ready to use. Taste them to be sure they are well-flavored throughout. Discard any mushy pickles. You can keep the pickles as-is in the crock, place them in jars and cover with the brine (strain it first), or put them in jars, make new brine and process them. We eat them out of the crock or move them into gallon jars if we need to start another batch. It is a shame to process these and they hold well in their brine. If the brine gets cloudy, take the pickles out and rinse them, make new brine (without the spices) and cover them with it. Keep the jar in a cool place or in the refrigerator--they will keep for over a year if you can hang onto them that long! Hollow pickles are ok to eat and are hollow because they were not fresh when pickled. Our pickles are generally made from those leftover from market/CSA or the #2's of the crop--but appearance does not affect taste. You can eat the hot peppers and garlic too--even use the grape leaves if you like. My daughter eats the dill and we use the leftover brine for salad dressings--no waste! I recommend that anyone who wants to make pickles get a good basic canning book like the ball Bluebook for info on processing and troubleshooting. Start out with a small batch and adjust spices to taste. The salt/water/vinegar ratio is important, but the spices can be adjusted in many ways. You can add mustard seed, turmeric, bay leaves or just about anything. CSA members enjoy them at pickup time, right out of the crock. ********* I learned to make pickles from my grandma and relish from my mother. From there we started pickling almost everything. Last year we did garlic for the first time. Wax beans are coming on here now and IF we have any extra I will be pickling them. At 10:41 AM 6/27/99 -0400, Dan Hook wrote: >Ok! You've tempted us what is your recipe for pickles that are so good your >interns ate them all :). I make a half sour pickle that we are very fond of, >but I am always looking for more recipes. I two made relish last year, I >mean what does one do when frost is looming around the corner and you have >rows and rows of green tomatoes ( I will post that recipe if interested). A >bit of a twist on zuccini bread: find a standard carrot cake recipe one >that includes pineaple and substutite 1/2 zuc and carrot its good. Beth > > > > > pickles and my CSA'ers, kids, grandkids and >>friends all head for the pickles the minute they get here. If we are lucky >>we have pickles from the previous year to share until the new ones are >>ready. (Though my interns found that stash this year and they are already >>gone!) There are no really good commercial organic pickles that I can >>find--certainly nothing that beats home made. If I had a commercial >kitchen... >> >>If you need pickle recipes just ask, but good basic recipes are in the Ball >>Bluebook. The Biodynamic folks make some great pickles too. >> >>I like to add more of this or that--garlic, hot peppers, pickling spices... >>Summer squash can be pickled too. Once any of them are past their prime, >>they can be made into bread and butter pickles with great results. >Although >>sweet pickles are not my favorite, my people like them on peanut butter >>sandwiches, grilled cheese, and in potato salads and such. >> >>For that matter, almost any veggie can be pickled or made into a relish. >>It's a great way to preserve them and really not much work. >> >>Overgrown zukes make great bread, patties and muffins. We are always >>teaching our customers how to use things up. Chocolate zucchini bread, >>Zucchini corn muffins,...you can hide the stuff in almost anything! >> >>At 09:12 AM 6/27/99 -0500, Allan Balliett wrote: >>>Thanks for the encouragement, Lucy, Now if someone could confirm the >'how'! ;-) >>> >>>This year we have no market as an outlet and we have only one distribution >>>day for the CSA. Half of our shareholders are delivered to. >>> >>>-Allan Balliett >>>Charles Town, WV >>> >>> >>>>I see no problem with your idea. Ideally we should pick the same day of >>>>pick-up but not many people want a 15lb zuke ( though if you have brits >in >>>>your CSA they treasure such things and call them marrows-we got rid of >many >>>>an oversized zuke to our british members last year). At our farm we have >>>>several picking days each week to insure that the squashes don't get over >>>>sized and everything is under 48hrs old at time of sale/distribution. We >>>>pick for the CSA either Wed. or Thursday morning for a Thursday pm >pick-up. >>>>We also sell at 3 to 4 farmer's markets each week so we pick 4 times a >week >>>>and it is rare that anything lasts on the plant long enough to get big. >>>> Lucy Goodman-Owsley >>>>Boulder Belt CSA >>>>New Paris, OH >>>>http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________________ >>>>Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Cissy Bowman, >>President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education >>Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association >>Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ >>8364 S SR 39 >>Clayton, IN 46118 >>317-539-4317 >>cvof@iquest.net >> >> > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jun 29 14:14:05 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05009 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12124 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15151; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:01:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from agency6.state.ky.us (agency6.state.ky.us [162.114.120.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15007 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:59:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Anna.Sidebottom@kyagr.com Received: by agency6.state.ky.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:57:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: seeking farmers markets selling cheese Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:57:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 423 I am looking for information on any open air farmers' markets that allow farmers to sell cheese and eggs. I am researching for temporary markets that have a similar set up as a market I am working with (where the farmers back up a truck on the lawn/city streets with their tents, etc) and requesting for their rules and guidelines of handling such products at these type of markets. Thanks for any links you could provide in advance. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Anna M. Sidebottom From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 2 20:02:49 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA03653 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16277 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA14314; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:51:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14211 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:49:22 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id oJFZa00103 (4420); Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <84bb001a.24aea9d5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:48:37 EDT Subject: Re: What to do with Zukes (was holding produce) To: goodows@excite.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 424 Careful what you wish for!! It is pouring and I can see my breath outside this afternoon! Not many things like to grow in refrigerator weather. Suzy Cook From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 2 20:09:45 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA03716 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17271 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA14666; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:58:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14509 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:56:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA25719; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:55:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2b-144.ix.netcom.com(209.110.253.144) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025709; Fri Jul 2 18:55:07 1999 Message-ID: <001e01bec4e5$c630e2c0$90fd6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" , Subject: Re: What to do with Zukes (was holding produce) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:51:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 425 I have an all zuccini cook book in fact I forgot all about it. My zuks just started passed out about 7 today to CSA members I think with in a week watch out. I will look through the book. This post asked for raw recipes any other requests? Beth > > how about some recipes for the oversize zuccini? There is also > a small > > cookbook for just that vegetable. With all the zucc each year, > everyone > > should have that book. Also suggest using the small ones raw in > salad. > People > > need to eat as much as possible raw, so each veg you can help > them eat raw > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jul 3 11:47:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA13891 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 11:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18561 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 11:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10379; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:36:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pws.gamewood.net (pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10165 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:32:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0106.gamewood.net [206.229.249.37]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA02370 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 11:31:36 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01bec582$fcb39340$25f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "CSA list" Subject: seeking cheesy farmers markets Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 11:36:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01BEC548.4F7A87E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 426 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BEC548.4F7A87E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Anna, What area are you interested in? ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BEC548.4F7A87E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Dear Anna,
     
    What area are you interested = in?
    ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BEC548.4F7A87E0-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jul 3 14:56:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16416 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 14:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA14884 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 14:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA17533; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:45:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pws.gamewood.net (pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17482 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:45:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0104.gamewood.net [206.229.249.35]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA06485 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 14:44:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01bec59d$fb86b7c0$23f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "CSA list" Subject: pork production Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 14:49:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEC563.4E56D420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 427 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEC563.4E56D420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow, is it just me or has the list gotten sluggish? I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / Organic chicken, organic = beef , eggs, and such for sale to CSA members, and was thinking about = ways to produce pork that would be of interest to CSA members or other = discerning consumers. Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I have no desire to = build a multimillion $$ building and stinky lagoon, but am interested in = some form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a = Hoop House farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would = be bedded on wood chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would = be composted. Anyone ever hear of anything similar? The hoop house idea was given to = me from a friend who thought there was something on it on the internet, = but I can't find it. Any feedback from others who sell meat as part of their farm operations? Amy Long Island VA akjedj@gamewood.net ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEC563.4E56D420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Wow, is it just me or has the list gotten=20 sluggish?
     
    I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / = Organic=20 chicken, organic beef , eggs, and such for sale to CSA members, and was = thinking=20 about ways to produce pork that would be of interest to CSA members or = other=20 discerning consumers.
     
    Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I = have no=20 desire to build a multimillion $$ building and stinky lagoon, but am = interested=20 in some form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a = Hoop=20 House farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would be = bedded on=20 wood chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would be=20 composted.
     
    Anyone ever hear of anything similar? The hoop house = idea was=20 given to me from a friend who thought there was something on it on the = internet,=20 but I can't find it.
     
    Any feedback from others who sell meat as part of = their farm=20 operations?
     
    Amy
    Long Island VA
    akjedj@gamewood.net
    ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEC563.4E56D420-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jul 3 15:27:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16619 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19312 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18535; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 14:15:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18488 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 14:15:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA22659; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 14:15:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-189.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.189) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022642; Sat Jul 3 14:14:58 1999 Message-ID: <002601bec587$d2551240$bdfa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Amy and Eric Johnson" , "CSA list" Subject: Re: pork production Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:11:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01BEC566.4976A180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 428 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BEC566.4976A180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Amy, The list is real sluggish, its because everyone is farmin'. But = where is Dori? We haven't heard from her in a month. Are you alright = Dori? Meat. I just put in my last newletter that I had a source of = organic Thanksgiving turkeys and was anyone interested in our free range = beef. We'll see what the response is. I am on another e-mail list and = there is a fellow who raises pastured pork, I of course can't remember = is name but next time he posts I'll get his e-mail. Thanks Beth -----Original Message----- From: Amy and Eric Johnson To: CSA list Date: Saturday, July 03, 1999 2:48 PM Subject: pork production =20 =20 Wow, is it just me or has the list gotten sluggish? =20 I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / Organic chicken, = organic beef , eggs, and such for sale to CSA members, and was thinking = about ways to produce pork that would be of interest to CSA members or = other discerning consumers. =20 Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I have no desire = to build a multimillion $$ building and stinky lagoon, but am interested = in some form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a = Hoop House farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would = be bedded on wood chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would = be composted. =20 Anyone ever hear of anything similar? The hoop house idea was given = to me from a friend who thought there was something on it on the = internet, but I can't find it. =20 Any feedback from others who sell meat as part of their farm = operations? =20 Amy Long Island VA akjedj@gamewood.net ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BEC566.4976A180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Amy, The list is real sluggish, = its because=20 everyone is farmin'.  But where is Dori?  We haven't heard = from her in=20 a month.  Are you alright Dori?  Meat.  I just put in my = last=20 newletter that I had a source of organic Thanksgiving turkeys and was = anyone=20 interested in our free range beef.  We'll see what the response = is.  I=20 am on another e-mail list and there is a fellow who raises pastured = pork, I of=20 course can't remember is name but next time he posts I'll get his = e-mail. =20 Thanks Beth
    -----Original = Message-----
    From:=20 Amy and Eric Johnson <akjedj@gamewood.net
    >
    To:= =20 CSA list <CSA-L@prairienet.org>
    D= ate:=20 Saturday, July 03, 1999 2:48 PM
    Subject: pork=20 production

    Wow, is it just me or has the list gotten=20 sluggish?
     
    I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / = Organic=20 chicken, organic beef , eggs, and such for sale to CSA members, and = was=20 thinking about ways to produce pork that would be of interest to CSA = members=20 or other discerning consumers.
     
    Having worked on commercial hog farms in the = past, I have=20 no desire to build a multimillion $$ building and stinky lagoon, but = am=20 interested in some form of "Pasture Pig" production system = possibly combined with a Hoop House farrowing "barn" with = a=20 concrete floor where the sows would be bedded on wood chips or = straw, and=20 the waste and soiled bedding would be composted.
     
    Anyone ever hear of anything similar? The hoop = house idea=20 was given to me from a friend who thought there was something on it = on the=20 internet, but I can't find it.
     
    Any feedback from others who sell meat as part = of their=20 farm operations?
     
    Amy
    Long Island VA
    akjedj@gamewood.net
    ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BEC566.4976A180-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 4 07:12:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA23300 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 07:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA09612 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 07:02:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA10771; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 06:00:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10688 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 05:58:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 05:58:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907041058.FAA10688@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 14688 invoked from network); 4 Jul 1999 10:58:46 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as002-149.iquest.net (209.43.49.149) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 1999 10:58:46 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Amy and Eric Johnson" From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: pork production Cc: "CSA list" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 429 There is a farmer in Indiana named Greg Gunthorp who does pastured pork. I don't have his number but I can get it from a friend of mine. Give me a day or 2 and I should be able to find it. At 02:49 PM 7/3/99 -0700, Amy and Eric Johnson wrote: >Wow, is it just me or has the list gotten sluggish? > >I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / Organic chicken, organic beef , eggs, and such for sale to CSA members, and was thinking about ways to produce pork that would be of interest to CSA members or other discerning consumers. > >Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I have no desire to build a multimillion $$ building and stinky lagoon, but am interested in some form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a Hoop House farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would be bedded on wood chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would be composted. > >Anyone ever hear of anything similar? The hoop house idea was given to me from a friend who thought there was something on it on the internet, but I can't find it. > >Any feedback from others who sell meat as part of their farm operations? > >Amy >Long Island VA >akjedj@gamewood.net > > > > > > > >
    Wow, is it just me or has the list gotten >sluggish?
    >
     
    >
    I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / Organic >chicken, organic beef , eggs, and such for sale to CSA members, and was thinking >about ways to produce pork that would be of interest to CSA members or other >discerning consumers.
    >
     
    >
    Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I have no >desire to build a multimillion $$ building and stinky lagoon, but am interested >in some form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a Hoop >House farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would be bedded on >wood chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would be >composted.
    >
     
    >
    Anyone ever hear of anything similar? The hoop house idea was >given to me from a friend who thought there was something on it on the internet, >but I can't find it.
    >
     
    >
    Any feedback from others who sell meat as part of their farm >operations?
    >
     
    >
    Amy
    >
    Long Island VA
    >
    akjedj@gamewood.net
    > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 4 08:33:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA23603 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 08:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16171 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 08:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA12263; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 07:22:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12213 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 07:21:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from digger.excite.com ([199.172.152.82]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990704122124.LDY16597.fortune@digger.excite.com> for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 05:21:24 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: pork production Message-Id: <931090884.7026.854@excite.com> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 05:21:24 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.112 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 430 In Ohio there is a fellow named Ed Snavely who does organic pork, though I'm not sure if he's pasturing the hogs. At any rate his address is 11464 Yankee St., Frederickstown, OH 43019 (740) 694-8622 I know he's been doing this a while so he should have some good info. I noticed there are 2 area codes on his ad I believe the one i posted is the correct but if no answer use AC (614) Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 4 11:59:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25111 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:59:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11390 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19753; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:47:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17217 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:11:07 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id dILUa15316 (4224) for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c2f345b.24b0d35a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:10:18 EDT Subject: Re: pork production To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 431 Hi Amy, Dan is right. This season in the Northwest is raising a lot of weather challenges I've never faced before. I can deal with slugs, clay soils and marketing. But these overcast days with 42 degree nights in July soaked by 1 to 2-1/2 inches of rain a week has me downing double doses of my St. John's Wort to keep the Seasonal Affective Disorder at bay. I have so little time to share with the circle and miss the banter as well. You hit on my most favorite subject this year, pastured organic hogs. I researched the subject for two years to find a way to meet the public health and safety standards while avoiding the regulatory costs of pork production. This is what I came up with. Since this is my first year to try this, I bought 4 wieners to observe their impact on the land as well as how I can integrate them into my small operation so they are an asset rather than another chore. Each pig was adopted by two families interested in a Christmas ham. Those families signed a time limited room and board agreement for their half. They make monthly payments to me to feed, water and care for their livestock. I use herbal remedies to worm them. Each family has visiting privileges and are very interested in their development. Come October, They will decide, with consultation by me, when to slaughter their hog. They may choose to have a mobile slaughtering outfit come to the farm or pay for transportation to a slaughtering house. Either way they pay for the slaughter and pick up their meat when it is ready. This way, I'm not selling pork. I'm helping families facilitate their own pork production. It does not require a USDA inspected packing plant because each family owns the pig from the get go. They arrange for and pay directly for the slaughtering of their private property (livestock). I'll let you know in November how it all works out. So why do I need a concrete floor in order to keep a sow? It seems like an unnecessary capital expense for just one breeder. Eight to twelve pigs is all I would ever hope to run on an acre. One thing I've learned with this cold summer, is pigs do well in shelters that are small and comfortable. As the pig gets bigger, so does the shelter. They are very good at defecating in the same area so cleaning up the litter for vermicomposting is no problem. I've found several designs for farrowing pens that do not call for concrete floors. Since this is my first try at hogs, am I missing something? Gotta go move those chickens again. See you in the fall. --Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm << I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / Organic chicken, organic beef , eggs, and such for sale to CSA members, and was thinking about ways to produce pork that would be of interest to CSA members or other discerning consumers. Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I have no desire to build a multimillion $$ building and stinky lagoon, but am interested in some form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a Hoop House farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would be bedded on wood chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would be composted. >> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 4 18:13:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA29556 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 18:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09030 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 18:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA03169; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:01:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.ncwebsurfer.com (mail.ncwebsurfer.com [207.231.66.134]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03110 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:01:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default ([207.231.66.221]) by mail.ncwebsurfer.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59712U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:04:20 -0700 Reply-To: From: "R Circle Family Farm" To: Subject: pasture pigs Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:03:53 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990704220420755.AAA128@mail.ncwebsurfer.com@default> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 432 Below is a web site that has info on the Gunthorp's pasture system. http://grassfarmer.com/pigs/gunthorp.html BP R Circle Family Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jul 5 12:09:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA04740 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:09:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09421 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA03517; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:58:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03261 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:53:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26883>; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:58:58 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: SCook21809@aol.com cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Message-Id: <99Jul5.105858cdt.26883@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:50:08 -0500 Subject: Re: pork production Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 433 I like your approach Art. No sense in all the investment to maintain sows/boar; farrow facilities; a.i. etc when you can always get a dz weanlings with minimum medication in their background. I've never done it, but the guy who leases my beef cattle on shares gets a few weanlings very spring to raise outdoors. I'm interested in two things: 1) What kind of shelter do you provide? 2) Do you divide the acre into paddocks, or just let them roam? or what? SCook21809@aol.com on 07/04/99 10:10:18 AM To: CSA-L@prairienet.org cc: Subject: Re: pork production Hi Amy, Dan is right. This season in the Northwest is raising a lot of weather challenges I've never faced before. I can deal with slugs, clay soils and marketing. But these overcast days with 42 degree nights in July soaked by 1 to 2-1/2 inches of rain a week has me downing double doses of my St. John's Wort to keep the Seasonal Affective Disorder at bay. I have so little time to share with the circle and miss the banter as well. You hit on my most favorite subject this year, pastured organic hogs. I researched the subject for two years to find a way to meet the public health and safety standards while avoiding the regulatory costs of pork production. This is what I came up with. Since this is my first year to try this, I bought 4 wieners to observe their impact on the land as well as how I can integrate them into my small operation so they are an asset rather than another chore. Each pig was adopted by two families interested in a Christmas ham. Those families signed a time limited room and board agreement for their half. They make monthly payments to me to feed, water and care for their livestock. I use herbal remedies to worm them. Each family has visiting privileges and are very interested in their development. Come October, They will decide, with consultation by me, when to slaughter their hog. They may choose to have a mobile slaughtering outfit come to the farm or pay for transportation to a slaughtering house. Either way they pay for the slaughter and pick up their meat when it is ready. This way, I'm not selling pork. I'm helping families facilitate their own pork production. It does not require a USDA inspected packing plant because each family owns the pig from the get go. They arrange for and pay directly for the slaughtering of their private property (livestock). I'll let you know in November how it all works out. So why do I need a concrete floor in order to keep a sow? It seems like an unnecessary capital expense for just one breeder. Eight to twelve pigs is all I would ever hope to run on an acre. One thing I've learned with this cold summer, is pigs do well in shelters that are small and comfortable. As the pig gets bigger, so does the shelter. They are very good at defecating in the same area so cleaning up the litter for vermicomposting is no problem. I've found several designs for farrowing pens that do not call for concrete floors. Since this is my first try at hogs, am I missing something? Gotta go move those chickens again. See you in the fall. --Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm << I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / Organic chicken, organic beef , eggs, and such for sale to CSA members, and was thinking about ways to produce pork that would be of interest to CSA members or other discerning consumers. Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I have no desire to build a multimillion $$ building and stinky lagoon, but am interested in some form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a Hoop House farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would be bedded on wood chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would be composted. >> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jul 5 14:33:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06126 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05321 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA09880; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:21:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09813 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:21:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.27] (pm3shep1-163-36.intrepid.net [209.190.163.36]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03186 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:21:13 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:24:43 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: Holding Tomatoes Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 434 OK, forgive me again, please. First year CSA and I distribute on Thursday only. So many ripe or nearly ripe tomatoes today. What's the best policy on holding them? (I'm still waiting for the 'poster' from Extension on what is the best temperature for keeping fruits and vegetables) What's the best time of day to pick tomatoes? And the best method and temp. to store them for a few days? Thanks so much! -Allan Balliett From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jul 5 14:39:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06166 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06364 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA10236; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:28:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10195 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:27:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (epters@fridge.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.50]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA65897 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 14:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907051827.OAA65897@cs.rpi.edu> To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Garlic Scapes Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 14:27:46 -0400 From: "Scott D. Epter" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 435 Hi, Our CSA passed out garlic scapes this week (Janet, who runs it, claims that the bulbs grow bigger if you trim the scapes). We made a pesto out of them by substituting the scapes for both the garlic and the basil and keeping everything else pretty much the same. It is quite garlicky and quite tasty. Just thought I'd pass the suggestion along. Scott PS: My apologies to those who prefer precise recipes (e.g. a tsp of this, a cup of that, etc.) pesto just doesn't work that way for us! :) From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jul 5 18:29:12 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA08857 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19126 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA19820; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:18:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19741 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:17:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from almond.excite.com ([198.3.99.227]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990705221640.EIVY18664.kuku@almond.excite.com> for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 15:16:40 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Holding Tomatoes Message-Id: <931212999.1541.412@excite.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 15:16:39 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 436 Allan, If ypou have to hold the tomatoes for a few days pick them a bit green and store them in a shady place that is not cold-Never ever refrigerate tomatoes, it kills the taste and promotes mold growth and is a general bad things for them. We usually pick tomatoes towards the end of the day and have had no problems. We always wait until the dew has dried on the plants as it is bad to work with wet/damp tomato plants and find on a heavy picking day that pm picking fits into thew schedual and the plants are dry. Pick them into something flat and make sure the stem is removed so you don't puncture the fruits esp if you have heirlooms. We use bread racks to hold and transport tomatoes to market and find them to be a good, though not the best solution, as to what to store tomatoes in. Plus all of our racks came to us for free (or under a buck) and we use what we have. Now for a shameless plug-I have been working on my web site and it is gotten purty gosh darned goo if you ask me. if you have the time and inclination wander over and see what you think. Also if you are an Ohio CSA and want to be listed send me your address and email/URL and I will get it up there. If you have a organic/market garden/CSA oriented page lets link up by sending me your URL. Thanks for your time (the hot link is under my name BTW) Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jul 5 22:04:45 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA12210 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25279 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28141; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:53:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28084 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:52:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Sympatico.sympatico.ca (ppp13950.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.163.189]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA18075 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990705215114.00752e7c@pop1.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1qbem96@pop1.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 21:51:14 -0400 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Hilary Chop Subject: Pressure Treated Wood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 437 Does anyone know if vine (or any) plants can absorb the chemicals through their tentilcles or leaves? We are putting ina garden in a school and want to build a trellis, but want to know if the plants can absorb anything if we use lattus at the back of it. The posts will be untreated cedar, so there is no worry about soil absorbtion. And, what if we were to use a varnish over the treated wood? Hilary From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jul 5 22:48:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA13239 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04749 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA29873; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:37:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29830 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:37:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from junkpile - 63.15.3.172 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:36:32 -0700 From: "Mary Manson" To: , "Hilary Chop" Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Wood - one thoughtful reply ..... Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:53:18 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <07e6c3236020679CPIMSSMTPU08@email.msn.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 438 >Does anyone know if vine (or any) plants can absorb the chemicals through >their tentilcles or leaves? We are putting ina garden in a school and want >to build a trellis, but want to know if the plants can absorb anything if >we use lattus at the back of it. The posts will be untreated cedar, so >there is no worry about soil absorbtion. > >And, what if we were to use a varnish over the treated wood? >Hilary 1. Nothing lasts forever - why not use untreated cedar for the lattice, too ? Or, instead, use jute twine to "build" a "net" type of structure for the vines to climb on if plain twine is not sufficient ? 2. When you speak of varnish, I would think that using marine/spar varnish - here I don't know what I'm talking about but others might - it would seem that if you sealed all the flat sides and the edges, you would have built and varnished a structure that would be sealed away from the elements much the same as pleasure boats used to be - and oppositely, whatever was in the treated wood would be sealed in also ..... you did mean marine varnish, didn't you ? From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jul 6 10:17:42 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20436 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17835 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21385; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f30.hotmail.com [209.185.131.93]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21304 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:05:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 17278 invoked by uid 0); 6 Jul 1999 14:04:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990706140439.17276.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.121.26.5 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 07:04:39 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.121.26.5] From: Kenneth Barnes To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: re: drip irrigation Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 10:04:39 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 439 On May 9, Kevin Smyth wrote: 'anyone out there know how to "shut off" the individual tee tape lines?' What we do on our farm when we don't need water to all of the drip lines within a certain zone is to disconnect those lines temporarily. We then take a short piece of t-tape (about 5 inches long max)and attach it to the adapter into the lay flat and close it off like we do the normal installation of t-tape. It works really well, and we usually keep several of these short links on hand for just that reason. With a little practice, this can be done without having to shut down the pump. Good Luck! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jul 6 13:30:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24396 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA00072 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07585; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:18:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07087 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:13:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:13:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907061713.MAA07087@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 21159 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 17:13:11 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as003-37.iquest.net (HELO iq-ind-as001-19.iquest.net) (209.43.53.37) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 17:13:11 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Hilary Chop From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Wood Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 440 The chemicals in treated wood can leach into soils--especially into acid soils. Dust from the wood is very toxic. Children should not touch it. I do not have the info here, but during a review of a project that would have used treated lumber for a handicapped-accessible blueberry u-pick, the reveiw committee recommended the use of non-treated lumber. The studies we cited were aquired from Brian Baker of the ORganic Materials Review Institute: www.omri.org At 09:51 PM 7/5/99 -0400, Hilary Chop wrote: >Does anyone know if vine (or any) plants can absorb the chemicals through >their tentilcles or leaves? We are putting ina garden in a school and want >to build a trellis, but want to know if the plants can absorb anything if >we use lattus at the back of it. The posts will be untreated cedar, so >there is no worry about soil absorbtion. > >And, what if we were to use a varnish over the treated wood? > >Hilary > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jul 6 15:33:28 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03801 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA24405 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA19971; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:21:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from serval.noc.ucla.edu (smtp.ucla.edu [169.232.10.57]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19861 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:20:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ucla.edu (davidk.biology.ucla.edu [128.97.133.15]) by serval.noc.ucla.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12148; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378257D9.AB19095@ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:24:09 -0700 From: David King X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Community Garden list , CSA List , Medit-Plants Subject: Is There Spirituality Involved in your Relationship With Plants? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 441 Hi folks... I need some help. I have been tapped to give a lecture titled "Our Spiritual Connection to Plants" and I've suddenly developed writer's block. Any and all are invited to take a second and tell me what those words mean to you. Can you site any resources for me? Anecdotal evidence? Please respond soon - I just am at a loss and I'm beginning to get VERY unspiritual about the whole ordeal. david king greenman@ucla.edu From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jul 6 18:00:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07278 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA25508 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA03004; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:48:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02707; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:45:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Paorganic@aol.com Received: from Paorganic@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id aRLEa24566 (4465); Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <45900312.24b3d287@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:43:35 EDT Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Wood - one thoughtful reply ..... To: tonihawr@email.msn.com, owner-csa-l@prairienet.org, csa-l@prairienet.org, hchop@sympatico.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 442 Organic standards prohibit the use of pressure treated lumber where it comes in contact with plants. I assume that is because the chemicals can be absorbed by the plant. The problem can be remedied by painting the wood. There is also such a thing as pressure treated wood that does not use copper chromium arsenate (CCA -- the usual stuff wood is "pressure-treated" with). Acceptable materials are copper hydroxide, copper oxide, copper sulfate, copper zinc chromate. As someone already stated, nothing lasts forever. The lattice wood is so thin I doubt the chemicals used to treat it will prolong its life much. How about some neat saplings / branches woven or tied together. The kids could help build it. Leslie Zuck From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jul 6 20:19:53 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA10719 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA21597 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA13963; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:07:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13892 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:07:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA05917; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:06:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-96.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.96) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005879; Tue Jul 6 19:05:41 1999 Message-ID: <002a01bec80b$f5760320$60f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "David King" , "Community Garden list" , "CSA List" , "Medit-Plants" Subject: Re: Is There Spirituality Involved in your Relationship With Plants? Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:02:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 443 I think there is a bit of spirituality in the book "Farms of the Future Revisited" I have the book somewhere I can look through it in the next couple days. But what I remember was a phrase something like people have a natural (ie spiritual ) need to feel the rhythmns of the earth and most a far from it, this is the reason agri tourism is up. People enjoy feeling close to growing food and animals. Personally I love to just sit in the garden with the plants and enjoy their beauty. Beth -----Original Message----- From: David King To: Community Garden list ; CSA List ; Medit-Plants Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 3:21 PM Subject: Is There Spirituality Involved in your Relationship With Plants? >Hi folks... > >I need some help. I have been tapped to give a lecture titled "Our >Spiritual >Connection to Plants" and I've suddenly developed writer's block. > >Any and all are invited to take a second and tell me what those words >mean to you. Can you site any resources for me? Anecdotal evidence? > >Please respond soon - I just am at a loss and I'm beginning to get VERY >unspiritual about the whole ordeal. > > >david king >greenman@ucla.edu > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jul 6 21:02:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA11374 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28702 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA17424; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:52:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from x13.boston.juno.com (x13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17352 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:51:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from brike1@juno.com) by x13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EEVT7L3T; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 20:50:42 EDT To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:55:51 -0700 Subject: subscribing to list Message-ID: <19990706.175551.-111371.0.brike1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: michael j isensee Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 444 It has been so long since I subscribed to this list and now I wanted to tell someone else how to subscribe. Could someone please send me instruction that I could forward to them. Thanks Michael Isensee Urban Bounty Farm Portland, Oregon ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jul 6 21:13:35 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA11483 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA00812 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA18414; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:02:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18356 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:02:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Ajulson@aol.com Received: from Ajulson@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id dXMHa17700 (8010) for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <94dea5cd.24b400a4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:00:20 EDT Subject: Re: Is There Spirituality Involved in your Relationship With Plants? To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 52 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 445 Dear David, The best book along the lines you describe IMO is "New Eyes For Plants: A Workbook for Observing and Drawing Plants" by Margaret Colquhoun and Axel Ewald. I have used the suggested activities in nature spirituality classes involving both children and adults. Another avenue to pursue is the entire topic of flower essence work a la Dr. Bach: "Flower Essence Repertory" by Patricia Kaminski is an amazing piece of work that takes Dr. Bach's research into the soul/spiritual nature of plants into the next century. Web site at: http://www.flowersociety.org/ Both books are available through Anthroposophic Press: www.anthropress.org (phone 518-851-2054). If you wish, would be happy to discuss this privately. Best wishes; your presentation sounds quite interesting! Amanda Julson Bryan, TX From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jul 6 21:53:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA12016 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08540 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA21602; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:41:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21539 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:41:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.230] [198.69.131.230] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A16567650068; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 21:46:13 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:43:05 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: FWD: Write the FDA - re: Irradiated Food Labeling Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 446 >Write the FDA today and tell them that they should continue to label >irradiated food!! Under pressure from the food processing and nuclear >industries, the FDA may let the labeling law expire. Our goal is to get >thousands of comments to the FDA. See the alert below. > > >============================================================== >Public Citizen's Critical Mass Energy Project >============================================================== >ACTION ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >THE FOOD PROCESSING THE COMMENT PERIOD TO THE FDA ON FOOD IRRADIATION HAS >BEEN EXTENDED >TO JULY 18, 1999! > >WRITE THE FDA AND CONGRESS TODAY!! > >TELL YOUR FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME! > >CIRCULATE This E-MAIL! > >The comment period for the proposed Food and Drug Administration (FDA) rule >that allows manufacturers to sell irradiated food without any labeling >requirements to warn consumers has been extended to July 18th. Agribusiness >and the nuclear industry are pressing to label irradiated foods under the >heading "cold pasteurization." > >MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD > >Tell the FDA and Congress: > >- food treated with radiation must continue to be clearly labeled with the >radura (the international symbol for irradiated food) and a statement >indicating it was treated with radiation. > >- the absence of such a statement would be misleading because irradiation >destroys vitamins and causes changes in sensory and spoilage qualities that >are not obvious or expected by the consumer. > >- irradiation creates a new class of unique Radiolytic products that have >never been tested for the possible carcinogenic effects on humans > >- the irradiation process creates new volumes of radioactive waste from >Cobalt 60 and Cesium 137 which will plague our nation; exposing workers to >toxic >radionuclides when we haven't a clue as to what to do with the nuclear waste >we already have. > >Ask that such foods be clearly labeled. Also request that public >comments be placed on the Internet so the public can be informed about who >is participating. (SEE SAMPLE LETTER) > >If we can generate enough letters to maintain labeling, then despite the >government approval for this process, we will be able to avoid buying >irradiated products--but only if we know which foods have been irradiated >based on honest, clear labeling. > >When writing, refer to Docket #98N-1038 "Irradiation in the Production, >Processing, and Handling of Food." > >Send comments before July 18th to: > >Dockets Management Branch (HFA-305) >Food and Drug Administration >5630 Fishers Lane, Room 1061 >Rockville MD 20852 >or >Send an email to: >FDADockets@oc.fda.gov and/or >FDADockets@fda.gov >(Put Docket #98N-1038 in the subject line) > >SAMPLE LETTER TO FDA: >Dockets Management Branch (HFA-305) >Food and Drug Administration >5630 Fishers Lane, Room 1061 >Rockville, Maryland 20852 >Re: Docket No. 98N-1038, >"Irradiation in the Production, Processing, and Handling of Food" > >To whom it may concern: > >I am extremely concerned about the prospect of weakening the labeling >requirements for irradiated food. Any foods, or any foods containing >ingredients that have been treated by irradiation, should be clearly labeled >with a written statement on the principal display panel indicating such >treatment. The statement should be easy to read and placed in close >proximity to the name of the food and accompanied by the radura, the >international symbol of irradiated food. If the food is not packaged, this >information should be clearly displayed on a poster in plain view and >adjacent to where the product is displayed for sale. > >Like other labels, irradiation labels are required by the FDA to be truthful >and not misleading. I believe that the terms "treated with radiation" or >"treated by irradiation" should be retained. Any phrase involving the word >"pasteurization" is misleading because pasteurization is an entirely >different process of rapid heating and cooling. >I recognize the radura as information regarding a material fact of food >processing. The requirement for irradiation disclosure (both label and >radura) should not expire at any time in the future. The material fact of >processing remains. Even if some consumers become familiar with the radura, >new consumers (e.g., young people, immigrants) will not be. The symbol >should be clearly understandable at the point of purchase for everyone. If >there is no label, consumers will be misled into believing the food has not >been irradiated. > > >Sincerely, > > >SAMPLE LETTER TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVE AND SENATORS > >To A SENATOR: >The Honorable [ ] >Washington, D.C. 20510 > >To A REPRESENTATIVE: >The Honorable [ ] >Washington, DC 20515 > >Dear Senator or Representative [ ], > >I have recently been made aware of a disturbing development at the Food and >Drug Administration as regards the labeling of irradiated foods. Under >pressure from food manufacturers and supporters of the nuclear industry, the >FDA is considering a rule that would remove labeling requirements for foods >treated with radiation. The public only has until July 18, 1999 to voice >its objections to this rule. > >Currently, any food treated with radiation during the production process is >labeled with a symbol known as a radura (the international symbol for >irradiated foods) and either a statement saying "treated with radiation" or >"treated by irradiation." The rule before the FDA would allow manufacturers >to sell any and all irradiated foods to the consumer with nary a mention of >the use of radiation during processing. This is bad for consumers. > >Despite the fact that the FDA has determined that radiation is safe for >food, many consumers, do not want to eat foods treated with radiation. >Radiation changes the texture, taste, nutritional value, and chemical >composition of foods. Radiation creates a heretofore unseen class of unique >radiolytic products that have never been tested for their possible >carcinogenic effects on humans. Furthermore, there are no long-term studies >on the health effects of irradiated food. > >This is a clear-cut issue of consumers having the right-to-know what is in >their food and how the food is processed. We know what the fat, protein, >carbohydrate, and vitamin content is in our food, why should we not know >whether our food has been treated with radiation emanating from some of the >most deadly substances known to man? Please write a letter to the FDA asking >them to continue requiring that irradiated food is clearly labeled. Enclosed >you will find the letter that I wrote to the FDA about this issue > >Sincerely, > > > > > >Wenonah Hauter >Director, >Public Citizen's Critical Mass Energy Project >202-546-4996, ext.350 >Visit our website: http://www.citizen.org/cmep From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Jul 6 22:08:12 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA12142 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 22:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA11160 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA22863; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:56:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from x13.boston.juno.com (x13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22814 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:56:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from brike1@juno.com) by x13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EEVXWGKZ; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 21:55:36 EDT To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:00:47 -0700 Subject: connecting to this list Message-ID: <19990706.190047.-111371.4.brike1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: michael j isensee Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 447 Thanks for the info on connecting someone to this list Scott Epter! All others need not reply to my email! michael ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jul 7 09:18:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA19989 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26463 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA01005; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:05:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA00884 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:04:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907071304.IAA00884@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 76148175; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 13:03:16 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "CSA List" Subject: grasshopper attack! Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:03:25 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 448 We are seeing more grasshoppers than ever before, and damage, especially to tender seedlings, is becoming intolerable. Any luck with repellants or other deterents? What about the grasshopper semaspore (nosema locustae)? We have a lot of young amounst the older hoppers. Is there any point in spreading the semaspore at this point? Alas, the guinea hens were Christmas dinner to some lucky predator or we probably wouldn't have this problem today. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jul 8 02:48:34 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA08888 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 02:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA27980 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 02:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA27683; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:25:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27427 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:20:42 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id sANSa25615 (3893); Thu, 8 Jul 1999 02:19:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 02:19:48 EDT Subject: Re: pork production To: Pat_Elazar@cwb.ca CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 449 Hi Pat, Sorry to be getting back to you so late. We are finally beginning to get summer weather and work in the Great Northwest. Still getting down to 50 degrees at night but its an improvement. To answer your questions: 1. I pick up used truck canopies from the "recycler" section of our local newspaper. I then build a three foot knee wall on three sides and set the canopy on top with the back sticking out about four inches. In the spring, and cool summer, I stuff straw in the gap in back between the knee wall and the canopy I place a sheet of plywood on top of the knee wall to hold heat in and store feed, wormer, and other pig paraphernalia in the loft. I build a 2/3 fourth wall that moves forward as the pigs grow. So they don't spend any unnecessary energy heating a large space. Four pigs find this housing arrangement very cozy. As spring turns into summer, I'll pull the straw out of the gap in the back and remove the fourth wall completely to increase ventilation and keep it comfortable. Seems to be working so far. But this is only my first year. So I'm still learning by trial and error. 2. I started small to observe pig behaviors and make management decisions based on my observations. What I've noticed so far is that pigs tend to run and root along the fence line. So dividing an acre into eight or ten paddocks appears to be a sustainable way of minimizing their impact. Four pigs on an acre is no big deal. But twelve pigs could really make a mess of the fence lines in no time. I run a hot wire six inches off the ground around my fence to keep the pigs from trying to push through to the neighbor's garden. Next year, I plan to make runs and paddocks with gates in order to focus their impact in small zones while resting the majority of the acre for future use. Heck, it works for chickens and pigs are much smarter. But I cann't really comment on this until I try it next year. I hope this helps... Art << I like your approach Art. No sense in all the investment to maintain sows/boar; farrow facilities; a.i. etc when you can always get a dz weanlings with minimum medication in their background. I've never done it, but the guy who leases my beef cattle on shares gets a few weanlings very spring to raise outdoors. I'm interested in two things: 1) What kind of shelter do you provide? 2) Do you divide the acre into paddocks, or just let them roam? or what? >> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jul 8 23:12:09 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA25973 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03004; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:59:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02902 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:58:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA25941 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20693 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:58:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Need mail order sources for multiplying and walking onions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 450 Anyone know good places to order multiplying and "walking" onions? Lawrence http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jul 8 23:12:11 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA25981 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA22391 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03004; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:59:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02902 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:58:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA25941 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 23:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20693 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:58:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Need mail order sources for multiplying and walking onions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 451 Anyone know good places to order multiplying and "walking" onions? Lawrence http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 11:28:52 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06436 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17919; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:17:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17254 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 25393 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 15:11:07 -0000 Received: from a48-01-20.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.20) (216.26.11.20) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 15:11:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3786118D.FDA@teleport.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:13:20 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hilary Chop CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Wood References: <3.0.1.32.19990705215114.00752e7c@pop1.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 452 Others have responded to the pressure treated wood question and provided some good alternatives. I want to caution you about applying a coating to the wood as a way to seal the "bad stuff" from the food. NO COATING WILL LAST. No matter what you use, (assuming the coating itself is something you would allow near food) will last as long as the wood. There is, of course, thequestion of what is in the coating. I encourage you to try some of the alternatives suggested by others: cedar lattice, woven twigs, natural fiber twine, etc. Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 11:30:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06464 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA24789 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17919; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:17:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17254 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 25393 invoked from network); 9 Jul 1999 15:11:07 -0000 Received: from a48-01-20.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.11.20) (216.26.11.20) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 1999 15:11:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3786118D.FDA@teleport.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:13:20 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hilary Chop CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Wood References: <3.0.1.32.19990705215114.00752e7c@pop1.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 453 Others have responded to the pressure treated wood question and provided some good alternatives. I want to caution you about applying a coating to the wood as a way to seal the "bad stuff" from the food. NO COATING WILL LAST. No matter what you use, (assuming the coating itself is something you would allow near food) will last as long as the wood. There is, of course, thequestion of what is in the coating. I encourage you to try some of the alternatives suggested by others: cedar lattice, woven twigs, natural fiber twine, etc. Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 11:47:12 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07130 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19887; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:34:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iu7.wiu.k12.pa.us (root@iu7.wiu.k12.pa.us [206.79.15.19]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19833 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:33:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from horticulture (CCT-0014.wiu.k12.pa.us [206.79.96.23]) by iu7.wiu.k12.pa.us (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA17742 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37861720.5C4B@wiu.k12.pa.us> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:37:05 -0400 From: Mark Ohi Reply-To: mohi@wiu.k12.pa.us Organization: cwctc horticulture X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csa email list Subject: treated wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 454 Great discussion on one of the worst recent developments in regards to water quality, food safety and worker safety, (ever think about the folks who work in the manufacturing plants?), that encompasses homeowners, construction industry, farming, recreation, you name it. Sorry about the run on sentence. Remember, you are not supposed to come into contact with the sawdust and residual chemicals on the surface of the wood when building with it. How do you do that? And where do the scraps end up? Hopefully not in your wood stove!! What is the need for "preserved" wood, if you are going to seal it with a coating, any way? Seems redundant. Paints and varnishes, before the prevalence of CCA treated lumber was the "preservative" of choice. Is newer better? Why both? Personally, I feel the product should be banned totally. Mark Ohi. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 11:50:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07266 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07450 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:40:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19887; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:34:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iu7.wiu.k12.pa.us (root@iu7.wiu.k12.pa.us [206.79.15.19]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19833 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:33:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from horticulture (CCT-0014.wiu.k12.pa.us [206.79.96.23]) by iu7.wiu.k12.pa.us (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA17742 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37861720.5C4B@wiu.k12.pa.us> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:37:05 -0400 From: Mark Ohi Reply-To: mohi@wiu.k12.pa.us Organization: cwctc horticulture X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csa email list Subject: treated wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 455 Great discussion on one of the worst recent developments in regards to water quality, food safety and worker safety, (ever think about the folks who work in the manufacturing plants?), that encompasses homeowners, construction industry, farming, recreation, you name it. Sorry about the run on sentence. Remember, you are not supposed to come into contact with the sawdust and residual chemicals on the surface of the wood when building with it. How do you do that? And where do the scraps end up? Hopefully not in your wood stove!! What is the need for "preserved" wood, if you are going to seal it with a coating, any way? Seems redundant. Paints and varnishes, before the prevalence of CCA treated lumber was the "preservative" of choice. Is newer better? Why both? Personally, I feel the product should be banned totally. Mark Ohi. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 14:36:44 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12874 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA06056; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:24:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05953 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:23:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.149] (pm3shep3-163-127.intrepid.net [209.190.163.127]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14948 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:23:32 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:27:11 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: Harvesting Basil Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 456 OK. I'm at it again. Can anyone give me pointers on how to get the most out of a patch of basil? How do I avoid (for the longest time possible) the stems turning woody? Is there a practical way to cut and store basil for value addeds, to be worked on sometime later in the year? (I've thought of storing the fresh basil leaves in olive oil until I can make pesto later.) Thanks for your experience! -Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA csa@claymont.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 14:36:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12893 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03200 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA06056; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:24:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05953 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:23:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.149] (pm3shep3-163-127.intrepid.net [209.190.163.127]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14948 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:23:32 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:27:11 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: Harvesting Basil Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 457 OK. I'm at it again. Can anyone give me pointers on how to get the most out of a patch of basil? How do I avoid (for the longest time possible) the stems turning woody? Is there a practical way to cut and store basil for value addeds, to be worked on sometime later in the year? (I've thought of storing the fresh basil leaves in olive oil until I can make pesto later.) Thanks for your experience! -Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA csa@claymont.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 15:22:08 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16246 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA10662; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:10:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10602 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:10:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ringo.excite.com ([199.172.152.145]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990709190946.WDAD16597.fortune@ringo.excite.com> for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:09:46 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Harvesting Basil Message-Id: <931547386.5363.988@excite.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:09:46 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.71 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 458 Allen, I have no big secrets in the harvesting of the basil other than do it as early as possible and get the stems right into water. To keep the stems from getting woody do another planting or two. The woodiness is just a part of their growth process as are flowers. To store the stuff for future use the oil methods works but a better method is to chop the leaves and freeze in ice cube trays (for individual servings) Basil freezes very well and that will allow you to have winter pesto. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 15:22:11 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16254 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA15924 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA10662; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:10:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10602 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:10:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ringo.excite.com ([199.172.152.145]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990709190946.WDAD16597.fortune@ringo.excite.com> for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:09:46 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Harvesting Basil Message-Id: <931547386.5363.988@excite.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:09:46 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.71 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 459 Allen, I have no big secrets in the harvesting of the basil other than do it as early as possible and get the stems right into water. To keep the stems from getting woody do another planting or two. The woodiness is just a part of their growth process as are flowers. To store the stuff for future use the oil methods works but a better method is to chop the leaves and freeze in ice cube trays (for individual servings) Basil freezes very well and that will allow you to have winter pesto. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 15:23:13 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16293 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA10817; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:11:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10768 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:11:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26894>; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:17:16 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Allan Balliett cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Message-Id: <99Jul9.141716cdt.26894@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:09:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Harvesting Basil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 460 Alan, Theres a long thread (hopefully in the archives) about preserving herbs in oil. The botulism danger is quite real & I don't reccommend it. Dori wrote a very inteligent piece on it lst year (or was it the-year-before-last?) If you have basil & olive-oil now, why don't you just add salt, garlic & pine-nuts to taste and make your pesto now and freeze it for later? Just a thought... Allan Balliett on 07/09/99 02:27:11 PM To: csa-l@prairienet.org cc: Subject: Harvesting Basil OK. I'm at it again. Can anyone give me pointers on how to get the most out of a patch of basil? How do I avoid (for the longest time possible) the stems turning woody? Is there a practical way to cut and store basil for value addeds, to be worked on sometime later in the year? (I've thought of storing the fresh basil leaves in olive oil until I can make pesto later.) Thanks for your experience! -Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA csa@claymont.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 15:23:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16301 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:23:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16284 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA10817; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:11:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10768 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:11:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26894>; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:17:16 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Allan Balliett cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Message-Id: <99Jul9.141716cdt.26894@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:09:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Harvesting Basil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 461 Alan, Theres a long thread (hopefully in the archives) about preserving herbs in oil. The botulism danger is quite real & I don't reccommend it. Dori wrote a very inteligent piece on it lst year (or was it the-year-before-last?) If you have basil & olive-oil now, why don't you just add salt, garlic & pine-nuts to taste and make your pesto now and freeze it for later? Just a thought... Allan Balliett on 07/09/99 02:27:11 PM To: csa-l@prairienet.org cc: Subject: Harvesting Basil OK. I'm at it again. Can anyone give me pointers on how to get the most out of a patch of basil? How do I avoid (for the longest time possible) the stems turning woody? Is there a practical way to cut and store basil for value addeds, to be worked on sometime later in the year? (I've thought of storing the fresh basil leaves in olive oil until I can make pesto later.) Thanks for your experience! -Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA csa@claymont.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 18:22:06 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22086 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA27168; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:10:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26492 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:05:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA14309; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:05:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-32.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.32) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014257; Fri Jul 9 17:04:08 1999 Message-ID: <002901beca56$78af38a0$20fa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" , Subject: Re: Harvesting Basil Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:00:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 462 Lucy, When you chop and freexe do you add anything oil or water. My basil is coming along quite well. Beth the stuff for future use the oil methods works but a better method >is to chop the leaves and freeze in ice cube trays (for individual servings) >Basil freezes very well and that will allow you to have winter pesto. >Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 18:22:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22095 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14663 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA27168; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:10:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26492 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:05:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA14309; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:05:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-32.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.32) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014257; Fri Jul 9 17:04:08 1999 Message-ID: <002901beca56$78af38a0$20fa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" , Subject: Re: Harvesting Basil Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:00:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 463 Lucy, When you chop and freexe do you add anything oil or water. My basil is coming along quite well. Beth the stuff for future use the oil methods works but a better method >is to chop the leaves and freeze in ice cube trays (for individual servings) >Basil freezes very well and that will allow you to have winter pesto. >Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 19:05:49 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA22750 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:05:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA00517; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:54:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00031 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:48:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from erin.excite.com ([198.3.99.254]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990709224807.WVKO16597.fortune@erin.excite.com>; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:48:07 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: "Dan Hook" , csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Harvesting Basil Message-Id: <931560488.5429.557@excite.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:48:08 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.56 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 464 You can add a bit of either oil or water but it is usually not necessary . Some people like the taste of olive oil in the basil mash. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 9 19:05:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA22758 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA23507 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:56:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA00517; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:54:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00031 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:48:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from erin.excite.com ([198.3.99.254]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990709224807.WVKO16597.fortune@erin.excite.com>; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:48:07 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: "Dan Hook" , csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Harvesting Basil Message-Id: <931560488.5429.557@excite.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:48:08 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.56 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 465 You can add a bit of either oil or water but it is usually not necessary . Some people like the taste of olive oil in the basil mash. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jul 10 09:10:27 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00937 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA10556 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA15203; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 07:58:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15135 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 07:58:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Sympatico.sympatico.ca (ppp13929.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.163.168]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10076 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990710081330.0075445c@pop1.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1qbem96@pop1.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:13:30 -0400 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Hilary Chop Subject: Thanks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 466 Thatk you all for your input on pressure treated wood. We're going to go for using twine of sorts, and making a sort of dream catcher out of the trellis. Let us pray for a mild fall - I just got half of my plants in a couple of weeks ago. The other half still has to go in! I'm definately testing the limits of the Ottawa growing season! We've been held back by deliveries, about a month. Thanks again, Hilary PS If any of you need some inspiration, there is a really good book out: "Unnatural Harvest: How Corporate Science is Secretly Altering our Food" by Ingeborg Boyens. Very interesting. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jul 10 12:59:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02880 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15570 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28294; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:47:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from catbert.ucdavis.edu (root@catbert.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.32]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28224 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:47:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (mrad@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by catbert.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.12) with ESMTP id JAA09070 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:47:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Rademacher X-Sender: mrad@catbert.ucdavis.edu To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: storing onions In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990710081330.0075445c@pop1.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 467 Greetings, I was curious how people store their onions. (and prepare to store onions) I have come across stem rot in some of mine as they begin to dry down, and am wondering how to avoid this. Thanks Matt From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 11 11:50:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14784 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:50:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06387 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07601; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:39:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07517 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:38:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:38:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907111538.KAA07517@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 18788 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1999 15:38:14 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as005-165.iquest.net (209.43.55.165) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 1999 15:38:14 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: osalt@teleport.com From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Wood Cc: Hilary Chop , csa-l@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 468 Probably the best thing to coat wood with is shellac. It's natural and can be re-applied. I would not use it to prevent chemicals from leaching from treated wood, but it will add to the life of untreated wood. At 08:13 AM 7/9/99 -0700, Will Newman II wrote: >Others have responded to the pressure treated wood question and provided >some good alternatives. > >I want to caution you about applying a coating to the wood as a way to >seal the "bad stuff" from the food. NO COATING WILL LAST. No matter what >you use, (assuming the coating itself is something you would allow near >food) will last as long as the wood. > >There is, of course, thequestion of what is in the coating. > >I encourage you to try some of the alternatives suggested by others: >cedar lattice, woven twigs, natural fiber twine, etc. > >Will Newman II >CSA at Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 11 17:18:15 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18162 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26920; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:06:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26826 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:05:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18138 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26930 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:05:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:05:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Wood Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 469 Another alternative to PT wood for garden bed retaining walls or fenceposts is using hardwood railroad crossties or dimension lumber prepared the following way: <> >From an article in misc.rural by labchuk@peinet.pe.ca: - Mix 750 mL boiled linseed oil, 30 mL paraffin wax with enough turpentine to make 4 litres. Dip the wood into the mixture for a few minutes or apply with a brush. Let dry a few days before painting. This is a US Dept of Agriculture recipe - supposed to protect for 20 years. <> Structures can be painted with spar varnish, shellac or oil-based paint <> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 11 17:18:17 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18170 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA22741 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26920; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:06:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26826 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:05:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18138 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26930 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:05:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:05:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Wood Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 470 Another alternative to PT wood for garden bed retaining walls or fenceposts is using hardwood railroad crossties or dimension lumber prepared the following way: <> >From an article in misc.rural by labchuk@peinet.pe.ca: - Mix 750 mL boiled linseed oil, 30 mL paraffin wax with enough turpentine to make 4 litres. Dip the wood into the mixture for a few minutes or apply with a brush. Let dry a few days before painting. This is a US Dept of Agriculture recipe - supposed to protect for 20 years. <> Structures can be painted with spar varnish, shellac or oil-based paint <> From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 11 18:44:41 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19078 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA01856; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:33:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Server1.wclynx.com (server1.wclynx.com [207.44.186.194]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01804 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:32:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.44.186.42] by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA186 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:32:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: mstein@mail.wclynx.com (Mike Steinberg) Subject: Winter squash vilnes Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:32:30 -0700 Message-ID: <19990711223228401.AAA186@[207.44.186.42]> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 471 I have been reading about the disposal of winter squash vines. Some say to "clean them up and destroy them" while other articles say they can be composted. First, why can't they just be plowed back in the soil-what might be the deleterious effects. And if I 'clean them up', should they be burned or can they be composted. Any suggestions would be appreciated. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 11 18:44:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19088 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:44:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA04133 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA01856; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:33:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Server1.wclynx.com (server1.wclynx.com [207.44.186.194]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01804 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:32:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.44.186.42] by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA186 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:32:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: mstein@mail.wclynx.com (Mike Steinberg) Subject: Winter squash vilnes Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:32:30 -0700 Message-ID: <19990711223228401.AAA186@[207.44.186.42]> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 472 I have been reading about the disposal of winter squash vines. Some say to "clean them up and destroy them" while other articles say they can be composted. First, why can't they just be plowed back in the soil-what might be the deleterious effects. And if I 'clean them up', should they be burned or can they be composted. Any suggestions would be appreciated. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 11 19:25:33 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19452 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA04538; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:14:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04476 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:13:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (akron-216-196-24-22.raex.com [216.196.24.22]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02100 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002601becbf2$b36027a0$1618c4d8@default> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: winter squash disposal Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:11:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 473 Well, here's what I heard at a county Master Gardener class. If the squash had any sort of pathogen working on them such as wilt or downey mildew ect you wouldn't want to be plowing that back into your field for further bad effect for generations of squash. Same goes for sending them to the compost, although there they might get hot enough so that the bad guys would be killed. Whenever there is a possibility of a plant with a disease that you want to stop, burning is always a fine option that doesn't use chemicals and is pretty certain to work. In olden times when European farmers got black legg of cabbage (a kind of stem rot) in a field they would have a controled burning of the whole field to get rid of it as that was the only way to be sure it didn't continue on into the next season. This is another great reason for crop rotations, a good discussion of which is in Elliot Coleman's book, The New Organic Grower. If you have a whole new family of plants on that field next year the possibility of passing on a cucurbit disease lessens dramatically. Carol Busson Dragonfly Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 11 19:25:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19460 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA09188 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA04538; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:14:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04476 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:13:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (akron-216-196-24-22.raex.com [216.196.24.22]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02100 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002601becbf2$b36027a0$1618c4d8@default> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: winter squash disposal Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:11:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 474 Well, here's what I heard at a county Master Gardener class. If the squash had any sort of pathogen working on them such as wilt or downey mildew ect you wouldn't want to be plowing that back into your field for further bad effect for generations of squash. Same goes for sending them to the compost, although there they might get hot enough so that the bad guys would be killed. Whenever there is a possibility of a plant with a disease that you want to stop, burning is always a fine option that doesn't use chemicals and is pretty certain to work. In olden times when European farmers got black legg of cabbage (a kind of stem rot) in a field they would have a controled burning of the whole field to get rid of it as that was the only way to be sure it didn't continue on into the next season. This is another great reason for crop rotations, a good discussion of which is in Elliot Coleman's book, The New Organic Grower. If you have a whole new family of plants on that field next year the possibility of passing on a cucurbit disease lessens dramatically. Carol Busson Dragonfly Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Jul 12 09:02:13 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26789 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA19534; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:50:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA19439 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:49:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:49:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907121249.HAA19439@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 29990 invoked from network); 12 Jul 1999 12:49:45 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as000-6.iquest.net (209.43.47.6) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 1999 12:49:45 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: mstein@mail.wclynx.com (Mike Steinberg) From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Winter squash vilnes Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 475 Deleterous effects are that disease and pests can winter over in the soil, or in a cool compost pile. The worst pest for us is the squash bug, which is hard to kill with organic controls. I'd say burn them. At 03:32 PM 7/11/99 -0700, Mike Steinberg wrote: >I have been reading about the disposal of winter squash vines. Some say to >"clean them up and destroy them" while other articles say they can be >composted. First, why can't they just be plowed back in the soil-what might >be the deleterious effects. And if I 'clean them up', should they be burned >or can they be composted. Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jul 14 08:42:18 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA14144 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA22880; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:27:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f87.hotmail.com [209.185.131.150]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21907 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:11:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 21329 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jul 1999 12:10:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990714121029.21328.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.121.26.5 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 05:10:29 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.121.26.5] From: "Kenneth Barnes" To: bataphil@rrcnet.org Cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: squash vine borer Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:10:29 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 476 I've read that an effective treatment is to cut open the vine and remove the borer. Then mound the vine with soil, thus covering the opening where the borer was removed. This should allow the vine to continue growing. I haven't tried this method yet, but plan to if necessary. Has anyone else tried this with any luck? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jul 14 09:47:05 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA15265 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27615; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:27:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27556 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:27:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:27:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907141327.IAA27556@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 12477 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 13:27:15 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as000-88.iquest.net (209.43.47.88) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 13:27:15 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Kenneth Barnes" From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: squash vine borer Cc: bataphil@rrcnet.org, CSA-L@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 477 This will work if you catch the borer early, but damages the plant and lowers its productivity. Instead, use a hypodermic needle and inject 2 cc of a Bt solution just above the site of the borer's entry. Repeat in 2 weeks. This method saves plants with little damage to the vine. Be sure not to use GMO Bt! My guess is that just stabbing the vine with the needle would also kill the borer, but I have never experimented with the idea. At 08:10 AM 7/14/99 EDT, Kenneth Barnes wrote: >I've read that an effective treatment is to cut open the vine and remove the >borer. Then mound the vine with soil, thus covering the opening where the >borer was removed. This should allow the vine to continue growing. I >haven't tried this method yet, but plan to if necessary. Has anyone else >tried this with any luck? > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jul 14 10:45:29 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA16480 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03673; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:30:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03439 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:27:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from doby.excite.com ([199.172.152.182]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990714142734.SCGE306.gigi@doby.excite.com> for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:27:34 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: squash vine borer Message-Id: <931962453.20469.55@excite.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:27:33 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.96 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 478 We have had good success with slicing squash stems and digging the borers out and than covering with soil. We have found dental tools are great for doing this and a knife can make too big a wound in the plant which will kill it. We have had very limited plant loss with this method but you do have to be careful. We have tried injecting the stems with Bt and still had bad loss of plants 9perhaps we were not timely in our applications. We also patrol for eggs and try to get all of them off of the plant so the borers cannot hatch and do their dirty bussiness. The eggs are laid at the base of the plant and on the leaf stems and are a reddish brown color. we have found butternut, delacata and sunburst patty pan squash seem to be resistant to their damage but banana squash will die very easily with only one or two borers. Zukes are resistant too. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jul 14 14:40:18 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21947 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA23842; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:47:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web808.mail.yahoo.com (web808.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA23743 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:47:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990714174959.7692.rocketmail@web808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.138.64] by web808.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:49:59 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:49:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Re: squash vine borer To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Cc: JLanca4538@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 479 Yes, I think stabbing the vine with a needle does work -- but I've only heard word that it does. I haven't tried it or seen the plant afterwards. Before this method, we used to cut open the vines with our large lettuce (multi-purpose) knives. Stabbing the vines seemed like a nicely evil way to deal with the larvae -- to have the dead larvae rotting away inside the vine and hopefully sending out the message "don't come here!" Kirsten --- Cecilia Bowman wrote: > This will work if you catch the borer early, but > damages the plant and > lowers its productivity. > > Instead, use a hypodermic needle and inject 2 cc of > a Bt solution just above > the site of the borer's entry. Repeat in 2 weeks. > > This method saves plants with little damage to the > vine. > > Be sure not to use GMO Bt! > > My guess is that just stabbing the vine with the > needle would also kill the > borer, but I have never experimented with the idea. > > At 08:10 AM 7/14/99 EDT, Kenneth Barnes wrote: > >I've read that an effective treatment is to cut > open the vine and remove the > >borer. Then mound the vine with soil, thus > covering the opening where the > >borer was removed. This should allow the vine to > continue growing. I > >haven't tried this method yet, but plan to if > necessary. Has anyone else > >tried this with any luck? > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ > >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit > http://www.msn.com > > > > > > > Cissy Bowman, > President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education > Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing > Association > Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ > 8364 S SR 39 > Clayton, IN 46118 > 317-539-4317 > cvof@iquest.net > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jul 14 14:55:27 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00705 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA29176; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:43:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (mail.pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29079 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:42:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.209] [209.8.149.150] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AB33EF9016A; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:47:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990714174959.7692.rocketmail@web808.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:44:09 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: squash vine borer Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 480 Reality check - yes, if I'm growing a couple of squash in my garden for personal use, perform surgery. It will be fun. But where is the point of diminishing return? 50 plants, 100 200 500 1000? I know everyone needs a strategy for this crop destroying problem, but there has to be a better one than spending that much time examining each plant, then operating, injecting BT, etc. It seems that it would probably be more time/labor efficient to just destroy each crop as it gets infested and keep on replanting. Besides good field hygiene, it seems that borer tolerant varieties would be the way to go. Though, I find several varieties that are advertised as such, aren't. >Yes, I think stabbing the vine with a needle does work >-- but I've only heard word that it does. I haven't >tried it or seen the plant afterwards. Before this >method, we used to cut open the vines with our large >lettuce (multi-purpose) knives. Stabbing the vines >seemed like a nicely evil way to deal with the larvae >-- to have the dead larvae rotting away inside the >vine and hopefully sending out the message "don't come >here!" > >Kirsten > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Jul 14 17:46:50 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05406 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16882; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:34:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16809 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:33:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:33:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907142133.QAA16809@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 18859 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1999 21:33:39 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as005-92.iquest.net (209.43.55.92) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 1999 21:33:39 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Leigh Hauter From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: squash vine borer Cc: CSA list Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 481 I have been spraying a solution of neem and blackstrap molasses around the plant bases this year. SO far no borers--but will it last? The mix seems to control japanese beetles too--I see no dead ones, but they move on to other things. (1 T molasses/1 gal water/neem as per directions on the bottle) I plant 4 squash crops a year. The early ones get weedy but this seem to confuse the borer. ONce it quits producing well I replant with something else--but once you get to that last deadline to plant it is nice to have some control to extend the crop. With CSAs it may not matter much but for marketing early and late produce gets the best prices. We plant summer squash from April 14 til July 25 and have our first frost ~ Oct 1-15, but in mid summer you can't get much for the stuff. At 02:44 PM 7/14/99 -0400, Leigh Hauter wrote: >Reality check - yes, if I'm growing a couple of squash in my garden for >personal use, perform surgery. It will be fun. But where is the point of >diminishing return? 50 plants, 100 200 500 1000? I know everyone needs a >strategy for this crop destroying problem, but there has to be a better one >than spending that much time examining each plant, then operating, >injecting BT, etc. It seems that it would probably be more time/labor >efficient to just destroy each crop as it gets infested and keep on >replanting. >Besides good field hygiene, it seems that borer tolerant varieties would be >the way to go. Though, I find several varieties that are advertised as >such, aren't. > > >>Yes, I think stabbing the vine with a needle does work >>-- but I've only heard word that it does. I haven't >>tried it or seen the plant afterwards. Before this >>method, we used to cut open the vines with our large >>lettuce (multi-purpose) knives. Stabbing the vines >>seemed like a nicely evil way to deal with the larvae >>-- to have the dead larvae rotting away inside the >>vine and hopefully sending out the message "don't come >>here!" >> >>Kirsten >> > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Jul 15 19:44:13 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07724 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23133; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:31:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23003 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:30:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from claude.excite.com ([199.172.152.181]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990715233008.ZECQ530.fortune@claude.excite.com> for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:30:08 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Fwd: source for kidney bean pods Message-Id: <932081409.6109.388@excite.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:30:09 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.163 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 482 > From: Ray McFall > To: goodows@excite.com > Subject: source for kidney bean pods > Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:58:02 -0700 > Message-ID: <378CF9DA.BC0323F7@accutek.com> > > We are looking for a grower or source to order fresh kidney bean pods > from. Do you know of a source that we might use. Thanks for your help. > > Sincerely, > Melissa Haroian > Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jul 24 19:52:52 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA28648 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 19:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA13326; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:40:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24125 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 07:08:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA14116 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 07:08:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-196.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.196) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014110; Sat Jul 24 07:08:13 1999 Message-ID: <001a01bed5cc$ac18be60$c4f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: drying foods Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:04:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 483 Well things are about in full swing here, if only the tomatoes would ripen (I picked about 10 yesterday, just ripe). I'd like to entice my members to preserve some of their harvest. Many are year round organic store shoppers (who are just as clue less as conventional store shoppers as to season, but thats another post) so I know they would like to extend their summer food into winter. This week my newsletter was "How and Why to Blanch Vegetables" and instructions for freezing squash, and beans. I got a dehydrator for Christmas and I'd like to experiment with it before I attempt to recommend it to my members. I am looking for a web page about drying and with recipes. I saw out in the world a little bottle of dried veggies, onion, peppers etc. it was supposed to be added to soup. I was looking at the herbs a tiny bottle of dried rosemary $2+. I have a bottle of Italian seasoning its a mix of herbs, I'd like recipes for these mixes. I may if I have the time make one mix for each member, and my church is having a fair in Nov. of which I have no time to make crafts for, but I thought some of these mixes might be nice. I made pepper jelly and green tomato relish that was well received last year. Any help with this would be helpful thank-you Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Jul 24 20:10:57 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28850 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 20:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA14763; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:59:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14664 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:58:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hippie.excite.com ([198.3.99.13]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990724235728.KVEM530.fortune@hippie.excite.com>; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 16:57:28 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: "Dan Hook" , CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: drying foods Message-Id: <932860649.10731.116@excite.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 16:57:29 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.207 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 484 Beth, try http://www.gardenweb.com/forums-they have a harvest BB that may help you out (it's a great allround garden site with a very active organic group and a good market garden board. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Jul 25 07:37:48 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA06655 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA18928; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 06:25:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18876 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 06:25:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA08075; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 06:24:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-228.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.228) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008069; Sun Jul 25 06:24:49 1999 Message-ID: <001001bed68f$c358d9c0$e4f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" , Subject: Re: drying foods Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:20:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 485 Thanks you guys are the best. Beth >Beth, >try http://www.gardenweb.com/forums-they have a harvest BB that may help you >out (it's a great allround garden site with a very active organic group and >a good market garden board. >Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Jul 30 16:32:19 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA26792 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04361; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:17:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04203 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:16:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from scorch.excite.com ([199.172.152.240]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990730201540.CXMR300.ewey@scorch.excite.com> for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:15:40 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Packaging source Message-Id: <933365740.16476.905@excite.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:15:40 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.152 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 486 hello from the swealtering Midwest.... I found a great web site devoted to fresh produce packaging. Check it out@ http://www.montepkg.com it has all sorts of boxes, bags bulk containers and is in Michigan. Prices seem good too. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Aug 1 16:22:55 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA28996 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 16:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16371; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:08:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16272 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:07:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from flash.excite.com ([199.172.152.79]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990801200711.IVOC296.kuku@flash.excite.com>; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 13:07:11 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: "Mary E Hoelterhoff" , CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Packaging source Message-Id: <933538032.28820.856@excite.com> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 13:07:12 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.181 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 487 For those who do not have web access the phone and address of the Monte Co. is 1800-653 2807. 3752 Riverside Rd, P.O. Box 126. Riverside, MI 49084. They take most credit cards according to the site as well. .Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 2 09:41:19 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA09556 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16675; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:24:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16560 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:23:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA05910; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:22:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-75.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.75) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005881; Mon Aug 2 08:22:45 1999 Message-ID: <003c01bedc20$d7d24b20$4bfa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" , Subject: Re: Packaging source Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:21:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 488 Lucy, Thank-you for posting this. I have requested a catalogue. I was just saying I'd really like one of those rolls of thin plastic bags. I have been using recycled grocery store bags, which I read is a no no. But we are not certified our customers know that. And they bring me their bags. Frankly I don't think in the scheme of things using these bags are a big woop, especially since the customers bought the stuff in the first place. Oh well I need the others 'cause I've been running out of bags. I was at a heath food store this week and purchased some bulk stuff. Their bags felt different, cellulose? Wondering where to get those. Also where to get old fashioned waxed paper bags. I haven't worn out shoe leather looking (and I forgot to look in heath food store I should have made a list) but in the reg. grocery store none. Well can't wait to look through the catalogue. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Lucy Goodman-Owsley To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 4:16 PM Subject: Packaging source >hello from the swealtering Midwest.... >I found a great web site devoted to fresh produce packaging. Check it out@ >http://www.montepkg.com it has all sorts of boxes, bags bulk containers and >is in Michigan. Prices seem good too. > >Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 2 09:44:01 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA09601 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA17115; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:29:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16915 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:27:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA06385 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:27:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-75.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.75) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006303; Mon Aug 2 08:26:31 1999 Message-ID: <004101bedc21$5e796c80$4bfa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Organic cotton Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:25:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 489 I have surfed the web. I have found many places to buy organic cotton, hemp, and soda bottle fabric clothes. Does anyone know a source for the fabric. Retail not wholesale. I can sew, I can from some of the prices save myself $100 on an ensemble(say that with a french accent). Thanks Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 2 10:16:38 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10103 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA20345; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:02:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20285; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:01:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Paorganic@aol.com Received: from Paorganic@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id uONUa14808 (4467); Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c90c5f1.24d6fe90@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:00:48 EDT Subject: Re: Packaging source To: guldann@ix.netcom.com, owner-csa-l@prairienet.org, goodows@excite.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 490 One of the problems with using recycled plastic grocery bags for food is that you don't know WHAT was in it before. It's not just an organic thing. I worry about nasty things like household chemicals, detergents, bleach, even automotive oil, paint thinners, all of which are sold in grocery stores and placed in the same kinds of bags as your head of broccoli. We have purchased boxes of new bags like the ones you are talking about at stores like Price Club, Sam's Club, the warehouse type stores that supply restaurants. You get zillions of them for a very reasonable price. Leslie PCO From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 2 10:20:34 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10207 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA20851; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:06:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20793 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:06:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA11349 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:05:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-75.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.75) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011322; Mon Aug 2 09:05:43 1999 Message-ID: <004e01bedc26$d8293600$4bfa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Nofa and other ramblings Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 10:04:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 491 Hi list is anyone going to the NOFA conference in Aug. at Hampshire College in Massachusetts? We are going Saturday. I thought is would be fun to meet cyber friends. I've already got one e-mail guy to find ,a professor looking for a farm to tour. I wrote back that I wasn't sure we were what he was looking for in that we don't sit around discussing our farm as one would in a classroom. We get up, we work in this darn heat, we get a great product to (pleased?!) customers. He wrote back, well actually the biggest criteria was that we'd be willing to host a group of college students, we that criteria we met. Pleased Customers, you folks with CSA's I hope you are now getting some positive feedback from your customers. I keep a weekly attendance sheet, I started it just as a way to keep me organized. Its Wed. who should be here etc. Then I'd check them off when they pick-up as a way to keep me organized. Don't want to pack more baskets than needed. Well I realized its a good record keeper in its own crude way. Its very easy to see who is consistently absent, I even write late on the sheet if they're late. I write comments they say, I write what new veggies I've given them(so I can look back as to when something was ready) The absent or late people I expect to loose next year. Also when these people (absents or lates) are on the list I tend not to pick their lettuce or highly wiltable veggie until they show up. My dependable which are the majority are beginning to give me good feedback. "Those are the best beans I've ever (ever) eaten", "That iceberg lettuce was really good", "We haven't bought iceberg in years" They went on to explain cause iceberg is boring, tasteless etc. Well not ours! Veggies that have gotten most comments: Beets "those beets are really good" One of my little members said yeh when I put the beets in their basket. The beans and now the potatoes. We've had Red Norland ready for two weeks. One customer said that a friend told her that fresh potatoes are really much better than store potatoes. She said she was skeptical. Well after she'd eaten ours she said her friend was right our potatoes were way better. Gotten good comments on my lettuce mix. It's not really mesculn (spelling?) in that I let the lettuce grow a bit larger. I needed the volume. But the seeds were from a mix. From Johnny's seeds. All lettuce mix I think. I forget which lettuce, but something like green romaine, red leaf romain, oak leaf types red and green. I pick three "heads" and put in bag. I had an extra one on day so I made a salad out of it, yummy. I see why the people comment on how good it is. When I am pleased or you might say surprised at how good something is, that makes me happy. I am probably the biggest critic. I was very disappointed in the Chiggoga (spelling?) beets. They are listed as stripped(two p's or one? Ah spell check is not going to fix these words now you'll know that spelling along with housework is not my forte). When you cut one raw, its pretty. If you cook it it turns whitish pink. It tastes however great. But I still get annoyed by the color. I was pretty much decided I would not grow it next year. But I have gotten lots of comments on "those white beets" people like them. They are going buy taste not the catalogue description gesh. Most comments my newsletter "oh good a newsletter" "I like the newsletter as much as the veggies, well not really ha ha" I have read in info about CSA's must have been in "Farm of the Future Revisited" and in the book I am now ready "Sharing the Harvest" that communication is very important and it lists other members saying how they loved the newsletter. The pressure is on. I try to write humorously, with farm fun stuff thrown in. Stuff about the animals, other farms I visit (we like to visit other farms), the veggies. I included recipes, one newsletter was just on instructions on how to freeze. A fellow told me yesterday when he left his house his wife was just finishing up freezing summer squash per my instructions. I was so pleased. Storing for winter I think the members will really enjoy. Well as you can see by my posts, I have no members coming for pick-ups today. I get to play on the computer, I should be watering my flowers however, is it ever going to rain! Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 2 10:45:30 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10613 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22925; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:30:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22840 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:30:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:30:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908021430.JAA22840@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 24511 invoked from network); 2 Aug 1999 14:30:18 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as004-59.iquest.net (209.43.54.59) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 2 Aug 1999 14:30:18 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Dan Hook" From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Organic cotton Cc: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 492 TX has an organic cotton growers co-op--all of whom are certified by TDA. La Rhea Pepper of Cotton Plus would be a good contact, but I don't have her email address. Leslie McKinnon of TDA could help you find sources or possibly have La Rhea's number: LMckinno@agr.state.tx.us (Leslie Mckinnon) At 09:25 AM 8/1/99 -0400, Dan Hook wrote: >I have surfed the web. I have found many places to buy organic cotton, >hemp, and soda bottle fabric clothes. Does anyone know a source for the >fabric. Retail not wholesale. I can sew, I can from some of the prices >save myself $100 on an ensemble(say that with a french accent). Thanks Beth > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 2 10:56:51 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10802 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23839; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:41:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23778 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:41:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hippie.excite.com ([198.3.99.13]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990802144103.LYWE7470.gigi@hippie.excite.com> for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:41:03 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Western Ohio Farm Tour Message-Id: <933604862.23630.570@excite.com> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 07:41:02 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.32 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 493 Hello fellow CSA farmers and others, This is an open invite to anyone reading this from Ohio/Indiana who wants to see our farm (other areas of the globe can come as well but it is quite a drive for dinner and a tour. We are having a farm tour on september 12th at 2pm edt. If you want to stay for dinner afterwards bring a dish to share and plates/flatware. We will be touring the gardens, showing off the meat flock and the laying hens if they don't all run and hide in the coop (their usual reaction to strangers) as well as our tillage equipment and hand made tools my husband forges. Should be a fun time. Contact me for directions. i hope many of you all can make it -I'd love to meet all of you. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 3 01:59:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA28905 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA10686; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:43:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10462; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:39:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA21841; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:39:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:39:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Paorganic@aol.com cc: guldann@ix.netcom.com, owner-csa-l@prairienet.org, goodows@excite.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Packaging source In-Reply-To: <6c90c5f1.24d6fe90@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 494 Our local grocery store will sell anyone a roll of produce bags, the "organic" labeled ones or not, for 15 dollars a roll. There are hundreds of bags...just ask in your produce dept. Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Mon, 2 Aug 1999 Paorganic@aol.com wrote: > One of the problems with using recycled plastic grocery bags for food is that > you don't know WHAT was in it before. It's not just an organic thing. I worry > about nasty things like household chemicals, detergents, bleach, even > automotive oil, paint thinners, all of which are sold in grocery stores and > placed in the same kinds of bags as your head of broccoli. We have purchased > boxes of new bags like the ones you are talking about at stores like Price > Club, Sam's Club, the warehouse type stores that supply restaurants. You get > zillions of them for a very reasonable price. > > Leslie > PCO > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 3 07:30:04 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA02391 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA26147; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:15:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25574 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:03:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA05782 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:03:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-45.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.45) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005747; Tue Aug 3 06:02:51 1999 Message-ID: <002201bedcd6$720e3b80$2df96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Re: Packaging source Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:01:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 495 Thanks Michelle -----Original Message----- From: Michelle Y. Crawford To: Paorganic@aol.com Cc: guldann@ix.netcom.com ; owner-csa-l@prairienet.org ; goodows@excite.com ; CSA-L@prairienet.org Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 1:38 AM Subject: Re: Packaging source > >Our local grocery store will sell anyone a roll of produce bags, the >"organic" labeled ones or not, for 15 dollars a roll. There are hundreds >of bags...just ask in your produce dept. Michelle > >Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, >27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > > > > > >On Mon, 2 Aug 1999 Paorganic@aol.com wrote: > >> One of the problems with using recycled plastic grocery bags for food is that >> you don't know WHAT was in it before. It's not just an organic thing. I worry >> about nasty things like household chemicals, detergents, bleach, even >> automotive oil, paint thinners, all of which are sold in grocery stores and >> placed in the same kinds of bags as your head of broccoli. We have purchased >> boxes of new bags like the ones you are talking about at stores like Price >> Club, Sam's Club, the warehouse type stores that supply restaurants. You get >> zillions of them for a very reasonable price. >> >> Leslie >> PCO >> > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 3 08:03:40 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA02647 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA27960; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:51:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from thor.westserv.net.au (thor.westserv.net.au [203.34.200.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27348 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:39:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from oemcomputer (tig01-ppp1.cowra.lisp.com.au [206.18.110.11]) by thor.westserv.net.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16125 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:38:02 +1000 Message-ID: <037601bedda5$ceac6720$0100007f@oemcomputer> Reply-To: "Rosnay" From: "Rosnay" To: Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:46:11 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_036E_01BEDDF9.9A629620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 496 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_036E_01BEDDF9.9A629620 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_036F_01BEDDF9.9A629620" ------=_NextPart_001_036F_01BEDDF9.9A629620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please unsubscribe us from the list,=20 thanks ROSNAY ORGANIC FARMS=20 Rivers Road, Canowindra, NSW 2804 Australia Tel (0263) 443215 Fax (0263) = 443229 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_036F_01BEDDF9.9A629620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rosnay stationery
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    Rivers Road, = Canowindra, NSW 2804=20 Australia Tel (0263) 443215 Fax (0263) 443229

     

     

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firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA05887 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA06139; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:38:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp13.bellglobal.com (smtp13.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.52]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05740 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:34:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Sympatico.sympatico.ca ([206.172.93.41]) by smtp13.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA28066 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990803065658.007417e4@pop1.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1qbem96@pop1.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 06:56:58 -0400 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Hilary Chop Subject: Ottawa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 497 Is anyone out there around the Ottawa (Ont.) area? I'm scouting for a winter share. But, the trick is I don't have a car. Thanks, Hilary From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 4 00:13:37 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21950 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25647; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:00:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ivory.lm.com (ivory.telerama.com [205.201.1.20]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25521 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:59:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [205.201.42.1] (d14-01.dyn.telerama.com [205.201.42.1]) by ivory.lm.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA08552 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908040359.XAA08552@ivory.lm.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:51:53 -0400 Subject: CSAs in Pittsburgh area? From: "Brad Fisher" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 498 Greetings CSA farmers, hope your harvest is going well. For an article in a local newsletter, I'm looking for a list of CSA farms that deliver to the Pittsburgh area--specifically the South Hills. I'd appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction. I will be calling the Biodynamics hotline as soon as I get off the computer. Is that the best place to go? Thanks... Brad Fisher Pittsburgh From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 4 00:33:30 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22128 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA27184; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:20:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from saturn.ausaid.gov.au (saturn.ausaid.gov.au [202.6.56.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27107 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:20:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: by saturn.ausaid.gov.au; id OAA26301; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:19:40 +1000 (EST) Received: from degas.ausaid.gov.au(202.6.37.150) by saturn.ausaid.gov.au via smap (V4.2) id xma026288; Wed, 4 Aug 99 14:19:37 +1000 Received: from ccMail by degas.ausaid.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 0010D05A; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:17:47 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:16:33 +1100 Message-ID: <0010D05A.005013@ausaid.gov.au> From: Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au (Anton Vikstrom) Subject: an urban CSA To: CSA-L@prairienet.org, "Brad Fisher" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 499 Gday y'all Well ive decided to take the plunge and start up an urban based CSA in canberra, australia. Starting pretty small/part time, hopefully about 6 shares Im escaping the land trap by borrowing varios peoples yards/vege patches and planting low maitenance crops- spuds/pumkin/corn etc. My own yards gonna grow most the other stuff (its good dirt now) Question? Anyone got experience with sweet potato. Im thinking about putting in a big patch and am trying to work out which varieties are the earliest. anyway, i hope you get some rain over there. cheer anton *--------------------------------------------------------------------* This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the AusAID Help Desk on +61 (0)2 6206 4666. Or email AusAID_Help!!@ausaid.gov.au This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for the presence of computer viruses before transmission. *--------------------------------------------------------------------* From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 4 06:22:15 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA25267 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA17809; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:09:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17736 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:08:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.172.173.47] (207-172-173-47.s47.as1.kgp.pa.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.173.47]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id GAA18223; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: patters@pop.erols.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908040359.XAA08552@ivory.lm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:11:49 -0400 To: "Brad Fisher" , CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Ted Patterson Subject: Re: CSAs in Pittsburgh area? Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 500 At 11:51 PM -0400 8/3/99, Brad Fisher wrote: >For an article in a local newsletter, I'm looking for a list of CSA farms >that deliver to the Pittsburgh area--specifically the South Hills. I'd >appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction. You might contact the Pennsylvania Association for Sustainable Agriculture (PASA). They did a pretty extensive survey of local growers in that region for a directory for chefs, and would likely know CSA's. You can call them at 814-349-9856. Ted Patterson Wayne, PA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 9 22:13:12 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29433 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA14259; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:02:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mario.discoverynet.com (mario.discoverynet.com [206.99.171.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13369 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:49:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from compaq (pm6-24.discoverynet.com [216.88.172.40]) by mario.discoverynet.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA05141; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:48:50 -0500 Message-ID: <002401bdc400$eb229c40$28ac58d8@compaq> From: "Joe Thornburg" To: "Rosnay" , Subject: Re: Sweet cantelope Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:48:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BDC3D7.012615A0"; type="multipart/alternative" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 501 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BDC3D7.012615A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001F_01BDC3D7.012615A0" ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01BDC3D7.012615A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was curious if anyone could tell me how to grow sweet cantelope. = The melons that I grow are juicy and of nice size but not as sweet as I = would like. They are falling off of the vine but still not very sweet =20 =20 =20 Thanks much =20 Joe Thornburg Jolo Farms Wellington Missouri ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01BDC3D7.012615A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rosnay stationery

    I was curious if = anyone could tell=20 me how to grow sweet cantelope.  The melons that I grow are = juicy and=20 of nice size but not as sweet as I would like.  They are = falling off of=20 the vine but still not very sweet

     

     

     

    Thanks = much

     

    Joe = Thornburg

    Jolo Farms

    Wellington=20 Missouri

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firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA09716 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA26187; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:06:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.rivnet.net (mail.rivnet.net [205.130.32.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA25781 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:00:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rivnet.net (unverified [205.130.32.203]) by mail.rivnet.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:00:03 -0400 Message-ID: <37B0220B.FD349E9F@rivnet.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:58:52 -0400 From: Ann Cooper X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Thornburg CC: Rosnay , CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Sweet cantelope References: <002401bdc400$eb229c40$28ac58d8@compaq> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------EB47A7FD304BF05C39F93B7C" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 502 --------------EB47A7FD304BF05C39F93B7C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would also like the answer to this question. Maybe I am giving them too much water. My cantaloupes are beautiful, big and juicy (not muskmelons) -- but they have very little taste. Thanks -- Mormor@rivnet.net Joe Thornburg wrote: > > > I was curious if anyone could tell me how to grow sweet > cantelope. The melons that I grow are juicy and of nice > size but not as sweet as I would like. They are falling off > of the vine but still not very sweet > > > > > > > > Thanks much > > > > Joe Thornburg > > Jolo Farms > > Wellington Missouri > --------------EB47A7FD304BF05C39F93B7C Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------17FE06C0CFB2E281621CB9D2" --------------17FE06C0CFB2E281621CB9D2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would also like the answer to this question.  Maybe I am giving them too much water.  My cantaloupes are beautiful, big and juicy (not muskmelons) -- but they have very little taste.  Thanks -- Mormor@rivnet.net

    Joe Thornburg wrote:

     
    I was curious if anyone could tell me how to grow sweet cantelope.  The melons that I grow are juicy and of nice size but not as sweet as I would like.  They are falling off of the vine but still not very sweet

     

     

     

    Thanks much

     

    Joe Thornburg

    Jolo Farms

    Wellington Missouri

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-0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2a-213.ix.netcom.com(209.110.252.213) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma004701; Tue Aug 10 09:40:44 1999 Message-ID: <013201bee275$146a14a0$26fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: sweet muskmelon Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:40:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 503 The only suggestion I have is next year when ordering seeds pay close attention to the description of the fruit. Look for one thats sweet. I know thats not much help. I suggest because last year we grew a cantalope. It was fine in my opinion. But my husband said its not as sweet as Burpee's Ambrosia. So we have some of that planted this year as well as a different variety name unknown. I'll let you know if the "experiment" worked. Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 10 11:41:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12718 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09398; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:30:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08909; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:24:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Paorganic@aol.com Received: from Paorganic@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id uJOWa28698 (4247); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:23:33 EDT Subject: Re: an urban CSA To: guldann@ix.netcom.com, owner-csa-l@prairienet.org, Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au, CSA-L@prairienet.org, brad@lm.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 504 I haven't read it, but here's the info on a book about sweet potatoes: "Sweet Potatoes for the Home Garden" It supposedly contains "special techniques for Nortthern growers" By Ken Allan Green Spade Books Kingston, Ontario 200 pages Available from Ken Allan, 61 South Bartlett Street, Kingston, Ont, K7K 1X3. $20 (US or Canadian) cash, check or money order. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 10 11:18:13 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12325 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07278; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:07:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06703 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:01:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA08056; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:00:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2a-213.ix.netcom.com(209.110.252.213) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007992; Tue Aug 10 10:00:01 1999 Message-ID: <013501bee277$c5f97c40$26fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Anton Vikstrom" , , "Brad Fisher" Subject: Re: an urban CSA Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:59:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 505 Hi Anton, Good luck to you. 6 shares is a good way to start although plant enough for 12-15 shares. For two reasons so you will have enough for your 6 and so you can see how it is to grow that much food. We had 10 members last year 37 this year. Last year we planted enough for about 20. So planting for and increase in yield 20-37 was not that much different. Although we got our 37 as a result of an add in the paper and did NOT expect this kind of response so the early crops were a little light, but we are making up for it now in tomatoes! Dealing with 37 pick-ups per week as opposed to 10 is a big difference. Think I am finally getting in the groove after 2 months :). A huge word of advice it is very easy to deal with these 6 members in a very casual way ie pick up when ever, throw a little extra this or that in their basket etc. Be careful. If those same 6 join next year when you have expanded and have to have a tighter schedule they are the hardest to "tame" I say this from experience two of last years people are not fitting into my pick-up schedule 3 times a week(each member picks one of those days) during certain hours. Well these two of whom I like very much are not fitting into the time brackets, and I am "unable" to make them. A third one wasn't fitting but now they are when they realized I have set hours unlike last year. Quantiy in basket, I did make an attempt at fair distribution last year. But I must be fair this year or in some things I won't have enough. So with your 6 people either limit quantiy (ie make it what you think the quantity would be for a larger membership) and sell the surplus elsewhere. Or if you think they can deal say "as a thank-you for joining in our first year you get a bit extra of squash whatever" but explain that next year there will be a more tight distribution. As for your actually question of sweet potatoes I know nothing. But I'd love to hear other responses. I have people request them. I have read that you can grow them in the northeast US where I live. You must get certain varieties give them a little head start. Grab yourself a book on growing written by someone from you area. It may explain how to grow them. Good Good luck Beth -----Original Message----- From: Anton Vikstrom To: CSA-L@prairienet.org ; Brad Fisher Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:20 AM Subject: an urban CSA > Gday y'all > > Well ive decided to take the plunge and start up an urban based CSA in > canberra, australia. Starting pretty small/part time, hopefully about > 6 shares > > Im escaping the land trap by borrowing varios peoples yards/vege > patches and planting low maitenance crops- spuds/pumkin/corn etc. My > own yards gonna grow most the other stuff (its good dirt now) > > Question? > > Anyone got experience with sweet potato. Im thinking about putting in > a big patch and am trying to work out which varieties are the > earliest. > > anyway, i hope you get some rain over there. > > cheer > > anton >*--------------------------------------------------------------------* >This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for >the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If >you have received this email in error please notify the AusAID >Help Desk on +61 (0)2 6206 4666. Or email AusAID_Help!!@ausaid.gov.au > >This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked >for the presence of computer viruses before transmission. >*--------------------------------------------------------------------* > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 10 12:30:23 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12718 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09398; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:30:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08909; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:24:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Paorganic@aol.com Received: from Paorganic@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id uJOWa28698 (4247); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:23:33 EDT Subject: Re: an urban CSA To: guldann@ix.netcom.com, owner-csa-l@prairienet.org, Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au, CSA-L@prairienet.org, brad@lm.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 506 I haven't read it, but here's the info on a book about sweet potatoes: "Sweet Potatoes for the Home Garden" It supposedly contains "special techniques for Nortthern growers" By Ken Allan Green Spade Books Kingston, Ontario 200 pages Available from Ken Allan, 61 South Bartlett Street, Kingston, Ont, K7K 1X3. $20 (US or Canadian) cash, check or money order. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 10 12:31:10 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12325 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07278; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:07:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06703 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:01:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA08056; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:00:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2a-213.ix.netcom.com(209.110.252.213) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007992; Tue Aug 10 10:00:01 1999 Message-ID: <013501bee277$c5f97c40$26fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Anton Vikstrom" , , "Brad Fisher" Subject: Re: an urban CSA Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:59:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 507 Hi Anton, Good luck to you. 6 shares is a good way to start although plant enough for 12-15 shares. For two reasons so you will have enough for your 6 and so you can see how it is to grow that much food. We had 10 members last year 37 this year. Last year we planted enough for about 20. So planting for and increase in yield 20-37 was not that much different. Although we got our 37 as a result of an add in the paper and did NOT expect this kind of response so the early crops were a little light, but we are making up for it now in tomatoes! Dealing with 37 pick-ups per week as opposed to 10 is a big difference. Think I am finally getting in the groove after 2 months :). A huge word of advice it is very easy to deal with these 6 members in a very casual way ie pick up when ever, throw a little extra this or that in their basket etc. Be careful. If those same 6 join next year when you have expanded and have to have a tighter schedule they are the hardest to "tame" I say this from experience two of last years people are not fitting into my pick-up schedule 3 times a week(each member picks one of those days) during certain hours. Well these two of whom I like very much are not fitting into the time brackets, and I am "unable" to make them. A third one wasn't fitting but now they are when they realized I have set hours unlike last year. Quantiy in basket, I did make an attempt at fair distribution last year. But I must be fair this year or in some things I won't have enough. So with your 6 people either limit quantiy (ie make it what you think the quantity would be for a larger membership) and sell the surplus elsewhere. Or if you think they can deal say "as a thank-you for joining in our first year you get a bit extra of squash whatever" but explain that next year there will be a more tight distribution. As for your actually question of sweet potatoes I know nothing. But I'd love to hear other responses. I have people request them. I have read that you can grow them in the northeast US where I live. You must get certain varieties give them a little head start. Grab yourself a book on growing written by someone from you area. It may explain how to grow them. Good Good luck Beth -----Original Message----- From: Anton Vikstrom To: CSA-L@prairienet.org ; Brad Fisher Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:20 AM Subject: an urban CSA > Gday y'all > > Well ive decided to take the plunge and start up an urban based CSA in > canberra, australia. Starting pretty small/part time, hopefully about > 6 shares > > Im escaping the land trap by borrowing varios peoples yards/vege > patches and planting low maitenance crops- spuds/pumkin/corn etc. My > own yards gonna grow most the other stuff (its good dirt now) > > Question? > > Anyone got experience with sweet potato. Im thinking about putting in > a big patch and am trying to work out which varieties are the > earliest. > > anyway, i hope you get some rain over there. > > cheer > > anton >*--------------------------------------------------------------------* >This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for >the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If >you have received this email in error please notify the AusAID >Help Desk on +61 (0)2 6206 4666. Or email AusAID_Help!!@ausaid.gov.au > >This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked >for the presence of computer viruses before transmission. >*--------------------------------------------------------------------* > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 10 15:53:50 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21900 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA02656; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:42:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02024 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:36:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from digger.excite.com ([199.172.152.82]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990810193555.FHHW530.fortune@digger.excite.com> for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:35:55 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Sweet Melons Message-Id: <934313756.22919.801@excite.com> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:35:56 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.172 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 508 Melons need lots of water early on and when they reach 3/2 size reduce water and after you harvest the first one stop watering all together. They also seem to groove on heat a lot. Most of our canteloups got eaten by deer when they were two weeks old so we are late on harvest but have many fine looking cantloups and some funky looking water melons from lack of rain. we are growing 3 types of each- Watermelons are sangria (sweet even before fully ripe), yellow doll (pretty package but haven't eaten one yet)and moon and stars (the coolest looking water melon in the patch and they taste good too) Canteloups-chantrais (actually a french melon, first time for it) hearts of golds (the deer ate all but two plants and of course this was the seed we had no extra, supposed to be a great tasting heirloom from MI) and amish (deer took only a few because we have about 4lbs of seed for this type, nice tasting to incredible tasting-depending on growing conditions). We found that the melons love IRT mulch and row covers on hoops for the cool nights. We had not put the row covers on the night the plants were taken we were too busy it seems doing other things like weeding, seeding harvesting, marketing, so it didn't get done. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 10 17:58:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA25335 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA13465; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:47:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12899 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:41:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (akron-216-196-24-32.raex.com [216.196.24.32]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA02087 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005901bee378$b20671a0$2018c4d8@default> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: certification inspection Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:38:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 509 Hello, Just a quick anxious note. Today is the day that our organic certification inspection takes place. I laughed when I realized what I am anxious about and I thought of this list. Not the farm, not our sustainablity, or ecological correctness, but. . . my housekeeping. I just know I will have to end up letting these folks into my house! And since we are on week#11of our CSA we have had weeks to get to the state (of housekeeping chaos) we are in today. I just know they will be compassionate and focus on all that brush-hogging we did this morning rather than the kitchen floor. Carol Busson Dragonfly Farm Northeast Ohio From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 10 21:02:12 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29154 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA27006; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:51:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26559 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:44:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA08924; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:43:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-25.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.25) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008879; Tue Aug 10 19:43:18 1999 Message-ID: <003601bee2c9$32e00a80$19fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "carol busson" , "CSA list" Subject: Re: certification inspection Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:42:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 510 Laugh out loud Carol. Sun. my members don't come until 2. So I did a little this and that. Picked a few things. Got dishes in dishwasher. Looked around kitchen was going to straighten up, got sidetracked into something (must have been important) and never got back. Yup some guy had to bring his daughter in. I didn't think till it was too late I should have brought her in. Oh well he went into total chaos. The bathroom it self was ok. Last wed a Mom and her two kids came in they come in about every wed. so I've gotten used to them (I don't think housework is her top priority either). But last Wed my son heard her son (about 6) say that my house was messier than their apartment! I hope they come in tomorrow while not perfect, it never is, its much better! Good luck in your certification. Beth -----Original Message----- From: carol busson To: CSA list Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 5:41 PM Subject: certification inspection >Hello, > >Just a quick anxious note. Today is the day that our organic certification >inspection takes place. I laughed when I realized what I am anxious about >and I thought of this list. Not the farm, not our sustainablity, or >ecological correctness, but. . . my housekeeping. I just know I will have >to end up letting these folks into my house! And since we are on week#11of >our CSA we have had weeks to get to the state (of housekeeping chaos) we >are in today. I just know they will be compassionate and focus on all that >brush-hogging we did this morning rather than the kitchen floor. > >Carol Busson >Dragonfly Farm >Northeast Ohio > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 10 21:14:46 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29300 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28109; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:03:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27699; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:58:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Paorganic@aol.com Received: from Paorganic@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 5JJPa22755 (14442); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <799230b1.24e2244c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:56:44 EDT Subject: Re: certification inspection To: busson@raex.com, owner-csa-l@prairienet.org, CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 511 Have a nice place under an apple tree with a picnic table? Bring all your relevant paperwork out there, some paperweights and a pitcher of iced tea. Your inspector will not complain and probably will not ask to come in unless there is some reason to suspect you are keeping your malathion under your bed. LZ PaOrganic From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 10 21:37:31 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29692 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00243; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:26:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29831 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:20:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from junkpile - 63.15.2.170 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:20:24 -0700 From: "Mary Manson" To: Subject: Re: certification inspection Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:57:06 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <0c9962420010b89CPIMSSMTPU01@email.msn.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 512 >Have a nice place under an apple tree with a picnic table? Bring all your >relevant paperwork out there, some paperweights and a pitcher of iced tea. >Your inspector will not complain and probably will not ask to come in unless >there is some reason to suspect you are keeping your malathion under your bed. >LZ There is absolutely no relief like having somebody come up with an alternative solution to an unsolvable problem ..... Toni From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 11 11:46:22 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20850 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29130; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:34:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28839 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:31:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hippie.excite.com ([198.3.99.13]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990811153057.WOQ7470.gigi@hippie.excite.com> for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:30:57 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: certification inspection Message-Id: <934385455.13810.915@excite.com> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:30:55 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.214 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 513 Wow, and to think I actually shoveled the kitchen table and floor off a few weeks ago for the inspector. I like the table under the apple tree though ours were dropping quite a few that day (and now most are picked except the late ones). Could of addled either of us if we got hit on the noggin. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 11 12:16:09 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA21569 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA03947; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:05:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03757 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:03:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pounce.excite.com ([199.172.152.99]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990811160256.SIN300.ewey@pounce.excite.com>; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:02:56 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: "Scott D. Epter" , CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: certification inspection Message-Id: <934387376.21365.569@excite.com> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:02:56 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.214 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 514 On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:58:22 -0400, Scott D. Epter wrote: > > = late ones). Could of addled either of us if we got hit on the noggin. > > addle vb ad-dled; ad-dling \'ad-li{nj}, -)el-i{nj}\ vt > (1712) > :to throw into confusion: CONFOUND > > [ME adel filth, fr. OE adela; akin to MLG adele liquid manure] > > How appropriate a word to post to a CSA list considering its origin! :) > shoot, I made a pun and didn't even know it! Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Aug 13 14:01:20 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20331 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10021; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:47:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.whidbey.com (mail.whidbey.com [204.94.52.241]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08384 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:36:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [204.94.53.180] (b3-53-180.whidbey.com [204.94.53.180]) by mail1.whidbey.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22543 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Petersons Family Subject: advantages to ag zoning Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 515 We have recently been appointed to a committee that will advise our county commissioners on the type of zoning that would protect farmland in Island county. Our county submitted a comprehensive plan that was rejected by the state's growth management board, and part of that rejection was because the plan did too little to protect agricultural land. The committee is made up of people from various factions - "property rights alliance', environmental action groups, conservationists, a planning board member and a few farmers. The farmers seem to be folks who inherited family farms and are now some of the largest land holders in our county. They are a mixed lot as to the success and type of their farming operations. I was the only 'small'farmer( approx. 20 acres) appointed although I've found one more to join me. A side issue is that the "property rights" people seem to feel that if, at 20 acres, I have the zoning protections that the 40+ acre holdings have I'm somehow getting away with something. I think they fear that buffers will be a part of the zoning code, and that if we allow ag zoning on parcels of 1 acre on up, that too many surrounding property owners will be affected. Just making the point that agricultural endeavors on a small plot are possible is difficult in this room. We have almost 20 acres, but only 2-3 of those are cultivated. Several of the larger farm owners are interested only in protecting the development value of their land - others say that unless their land has development potential, it is useless as collateral in the farming debt game. Some want to be able to divide their land among their family members, creating smaller plots with development potential. Some are interested in the idea of being able to sell housing lots in a clustered area of poor soil within their holdings. There is discussion of purchased development rights and transferred development rights. This committee meets for only one more week, and zoning of "agricultural lands of long term commercial significance" seems to be the only type of "protection" being offered farmers. They see the commercial agriculture zoning as restrictive rather than protective. Do any of you have experience with resolving these issues - it seems to me there must be some way to value agriculture land as the increasingly rare resource that it is, rather than for its development potential. There must be a way to protect small farmers and large ones alike (dubbed intensive and extensive ag) Most of these guys (yes the big farmers are all male) like farming, and would prefer to keep on doing it if the political and financial climate allows them to. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Aug 13 15:08:31 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA22361 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15524; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:55:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15444 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:54:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA29876; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:54:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-80.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.80) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029850; Fri Aug 13 13:53:58 1999 Message-ID: <000601bee5bd$14882940$50fa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Petersons Family" Subject: Re: advantages to ag zoning Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:53:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 516 >I live in Massachusetts and they have had a "tax break" program in place for quite some time 20+ years. Farms can be placed in Chapter61A (wooded areas 61 B I believe). You are then taxed significantly less than at developement rates. If you choose to sell you have to pay back taxes for a set number of years I think but am not sure that its about 10. You also must inform your town officials that you are going to sell and the town has first right of refusal. Meaning some guy with a big wade of money comes forward you tell the town you have x offer and they much match. Of course it must be a real offer no shinanigans. I assume the wooded land is the same. This tax break is probably a huge reason we still have the farm. The tax bill may have forced my father in law to sell off years ago. I don't know what sort of aceage is necessary to qualify. The "farm" regulations are loose (I mean that in a good way) includes stuff like mink farms etc. If you want the details I think I can find them on the web. Our town has NO interest at this point in buying our development rights. They TALK about open space and do nothing but issue building permits. Even the land they have purchased with a $5 million blessing of the towns people has the fine print that it can be used for anything the town (officials) want. Good luck states nation wide are going to have to get creative if they want any open spaces left. Beth snip Do any of you have experience with resolving these issues - it seems to me >there must be some way to value agriculture land as the increasingly rare >resource that it is, rather than for its development potential. There must >be a way to protect small farmers and large ones alike (dubbed intensive >and extensive ag) Most of these guys (yes the big farmers are all male) >like farming, and would prefer to keep on doing it if the political and >financial climate allows them to. > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 17 03:22:08 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA10803 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 03:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA25762; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:10:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25605 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:08:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [12.73.96.77] by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990817070753.WVEA15884@[12.73.96.77]> for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:07:53 +0000 Message-ID: <023a01bee880$ea343320$c178490c@ELN/cyberbamm> From: "Garth Bammer" To: "CSA List" Subject: ComposTumbler Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:08:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E0_01BEE844.9A6CE300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 517 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E0_01BEE844.9A6CE300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been receiving marketing material from the ComposTumbler company = about their product, a composter which rotates on gears and has = (allegedly) optimal vents and structural materials to heat the raw = compost up and decompose it rapidly. I'm interested in the product but = wanted (my intention here is not to ADVERTISE the thing!) to see if = anyone on the List has experience with it. Certainly, a "hot" compost = pile vs. a "cool" compost pile would kill the fungi and other pests on = squash vines etc. that have been recently discussed, leaving that = detritis available for composting and NOT just burning. And the rapid = turnaround is advantageous for homemade organic compost year-round. But = perhaps there are other methods or even products available which = accomplish these same goals? Thanks for your replies -- Laura Bammer "CSA wanna-be" Renton, Washington ------=_NextPart_000_01E0_01BEE844.9A6CE300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I have been receiving marketing = material from=20 the ComposTumbler company about their product, a composter which rotates = on=20 gears and has (allegedly) optimal vents and structural materials to heat = the raw=20 compost up and decompose it rapidly. I'm interested in the product but = wanted=20 (my intention here is not to ADVERTISE the thing!) to see if anyone on = the List=20 has experience with it. Certainly, a "hot" compost pile vs. a=20 "cool" compost pile would kill the fungi and other pests on = squash=20 vines etc. that have been recently discussed, leaving that detritis = available=20 for composting and NOT just burning. And the rapid turnaround is = advantageous=20 for homemade organic compost year-round. But perhaps there are other = methods or=20 even products available which accomplish these same goals?
     
    Thanks for your replies --
    Laura Bammer
    "CSA=20 wanna-be"
    Renton, Washington
     
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_01E0_01BEE844.9A6CE300-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 17 03:39:51 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA10982 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 03:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA26709; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:28:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26650 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:28:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.207.69.66] (dialup001.serv.net [207.207.69.66]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA27631 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908170728.AAA27631@mx.serv.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:41:42 -0700 Subject: Re: ComposTumbler From: "Adam Gottschalk" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3017695302_2846976_MIME_Part" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 518 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3017695302_2846976_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Laurie, Don't know how big this tumbler is, but to a great degree it depends on the volume of compost you're needing to deal with. If for example you're a biointensive type who is literally growing crops just to compost them, you probably want to create simple, huge piles and just let them sit. The thing about a constant supply then just becomes an issue of always having at least one huge pile ready and others in the works (i.e., it takes a while to really get going). If you build the piles big enough (say five by twenty, and at least four feet high) the heat thing will take care of itself. Another common plot is to create several bins out of, for example, old wooden shipping pallettes. These can be three sided bins with no tops, surrounding earth which you've churned up a bit. The bins should be side by side. You then proceed every so often to move each pile, with shovel, fork, etc., into the next bin in the series, until coming out of the final stage is the black stuff ready for beds. To see if things are hot enough, just use a long compost-pile thermometer. If not hot enough, then move/turn the stuff, or pile it up higher, or add some hot material. If you're sure to add proper amounts of N-heavy material with Carbon-heavy material and enough soil, heat won't be trouble. My experience is compost "products" are entirely unnecessary. What's needed is compost "wisdom." Good luck, Adam ---------- From: "Garth Bammer" To: "CSA List" Subject: ComposTumbler Date: Tue, Aug 17, 1999, 00:08 I have been receiving marketing material from the ComposTumbler company about their product, a composter which rotates on gears and has (allegedly) optimal vents and structural materials to heat the raw compost up and decompose it rapidly. I'm interested in the product but wanted (my intention here is not to ADVERTISE the thing!) to see if anyone on the List has experience with it. Certainly, a "hot" compost pile vs. a "cool" compost pile would kill the fungi and other pests on squash vines etc. that have been recently discussed, leaving that detritis available for composting and NOT just burning. And the rapid turnaround is advantageous for homemade organic compost year-round. But perhaps there are other methods or even products available which accomplish these same goals? Thanks for your replies -- Laura Bammer "CSA wanna-be" Renton, Washington --MS_Mac_OE_3017695302_2846976_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: ComposTumbler Laurie,

    Don't know how big this tumbler is, but to a great degree it depends on the= volume of compost you're needing to deal with. If for example you're a bioi= ntensive type who is literally growing crops just to compost them, you proba= bly want to create simple, huge piles and just let them sit. The thing about= a constant supply then just becomes an issue of always having at least one = huge pile ready and others in the works (i.e., it takes a while to really ge= t going). If you build the piles big enough (say five by twenty, and at leas= t four feet high) the heat thing will take care of itself.

    Another common plot is to create several bins out of, for example, old wood= en shipping pallettes. These can be three sided bins with no tops, surroundi= ng earth which you've churned up a bit. The bins should be side by side. You= then proceed every so often to move each pile, with shovel, fork, etc., int= o the next bin in the series, until coming out of the final stage is the bla= ck stuff ready for beds.

    To see if things are hot enough, just use a long compost-pile thermometer. = If not hot enough, then move/turn the stuff, or pile it up higher, or add so= me hot material. If you're sure to add proper amounts of N-heavy material wi= th Carbon-heavy material and enough soil, heat won't be trouble.

    My experience is compost "products" are entirely unnecessary. Wha= t's needed is compost "wisdom."

    Good luck,
    Adam
    ----------
    From: "Garth Bammer" <cyberbamm@worldnet.att.net>
    To: "CSA List" <csa-l@prairienet.org>
    Subject: ComposTumbler
    Date: Tue, Aug 17, 1999, 00:08


    I have been receiving marketing material from th= e ComposTumbler company about their product, a composter which rotates on ge= ars and has (allegedly) optimal vents and structural materials to heat the r= aw compost up and decompose it rapidly. I'm interested in the product but wa= nted (my intention here is not to ADVERTISE the thing!) to see if anyone on = the List has experience with it. Certainly, a "hot" compost pile v= s. a "cool" compost pile would kill the fungi and other pests on s= quash vines etc. that have been recently discussed, leaving that detritis av= ailable for composting and NOT just burning. And the rapid turnaround is adv= antageous for homemade organic compost year-round. But perhaps there are oth= er methods or even products available which accomplish these same goals?
     
    Thanks for your replies --
    Laura Bammer
    "CSA wanna-be"
    Renton, Washington
     
     

    --MS_Mac_OE_3017695302_2846976_MIME_Part-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 17 09:43:15 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA15533 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16513; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:32:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16402 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:31:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:31:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908171331.IAA16402@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 17682 invoked from network); 17 Aug 1999 13:30:29 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as000-127.iquest.net (209.43.47.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 1999 13:30:29 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Garth Bammer" From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: ComposTumbler Cc: "CSA List" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 519 A farmer friend of mine bought one. She hates it and would sell it if someone offered her anything for it. The problem is that the material youput in must be shredded pretty finely or it takes a long time to break down. If you'd like to talk to her about its good and bad points I can send you her email address. Too bad you're not closer--she'd probably give it to you free just to haul it away... At 12:08 AM 8/17/99 -0700, Garth Bammer wrote: >I have been receiving marketing material from the ComposTumbler company about their product, a composter which rotates on gears and has (allegedly) optimal vents and structural materials to heat the raw compost up and decompose it rapidly. I'm interested in the product but wanted (my intention here is not to ADVERTISE the thing!) to see if anyone on the List has experience with it. Certainly, a "hot" compost pile vs. a "cool" compost pile would kill the fungi and other pests on squash vines etc. that have been recently discussed, leaving that detritis available for composting and NOT just burning. And the rapid turnaround is advantageous for homemade organic compost year-round. But perhaps there are other methods or even products available which accomplish these same goals? > >Thanks for your replies -- >Laura Bammer >"CSA wanna-be" >Renton, Washington > > > > > > > > > > >
    I have been receiving marketing material from >the ComposTumbler company about their product, a composter which rotates on >gears and has (allegedly) optimal vents and structural materials to heat the raw >compost up and decompose it rapidly. I'm interested in the product but wanted >(my intention here is not to ADVERTISE the thing!) to see if anyone on the List >has experience with it. Certainly, a "hot" compost pile vs. a >"cool" compost pile would kill the fungi and other pests on squash >vines etc. that have been recently discussed, leaving that detritis available >for composting and NOT just burning. And the rapid turnaround is advantageous >for homemade organic compost year-round. But perhaps there are other methods or >even products available which accomplish these same goals?
    >
     
    >
    Thanks for your replies --
    >
    Laura Bammer
    >
    "CSA >wanna-be"
    >
    Renton, Washington
    >
     
    >
     
    > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 17 11:32:29 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18014 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA26955; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:21:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f77.hotmail.com [209.185.131.140]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA26835 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:20:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 3089 invoked by uid 0); 17 Aug 1999 15:19:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990817151946.3088.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.121.26.5 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:19:44 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.121.26.5] From: "Kenneth Barnes" To: cyberbamm@worldnet.att.net, csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: ComposTumbler Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:19:44 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 520 The ComposTumbler as I see it is too expensive. I made my own out of a plastic barrel which I vented and put a large door in the side for loading and unloading the material. It is true that you can get finished compost quicker this way; however, I have found that if you don't run your material through a shredder first, then it takes longer than the two weeks they are touting. I have been able to have a turn around of about 18 - 21 days. But remember, you have to turn it everyday. Also, the amount of finished product for these tumblers doesn't go very far due to their limited size. I am in the designing stage now for a tumbler that will use a 500 gallon drum. If you are interested in making your own tumbler, I'd be glad to share info about my smaller tumbler. >From: "Garth Bammer" >To: "CSA List" >Subject: ComposTumbler >Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:08:15 -0700 > >I have been receiving marketing material from the ComposTumbler company >about their product, a composter which rotates on gears and has (allegedly) >optimal vents and structural materials to heat the raw compost up and >decompose it rapidly. I'm interested in the product but wanted (my >intention here is not to ADVERTISE the thing!) to see if anyone on the List >has experience with it. Certainly, a "hot" compost pile vs. a "cool" >compost pile would kill the fungi and other pests on squash vines etc. that >have been recently discussed, leaving that detritis available for >composting and NOT just burning. And the rapid turnaround is advantageous >for homemade organic compost year-round. But perhaps there are other >methods or even products available which accomplish these same goals? > >Thanks for your replies -- >Laura Bammer >"CSA wanna-be" >Renton, Washington > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 23 02:24:30 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24957 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 02:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA23282; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 01:13:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from saturn.ausaid.gov.au (saturn.ausaid.gov.au [202.6.56.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23123 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 01:10:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: by saturn.ausaid.gov.au; id QAA00167; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:09:55 +1000 (EST) Received: from degas.ausaid.gov.au(202.6.37.150) by saturn.ausaid.gov.au via smap (V4.2) id xma029987; Mon, 23 Aug 99 16:09:34 +1000 Received: from ccMail by degas.ausaid.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 0011919E; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:07:42 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:07:17 +1100 Message-ID: <0011919E.005013@ausaid.gov.au> From: Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au (Anton Vikstrom) Subject: Tasmania CSA To: "Garth Bammer" , "CSA List" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 521 Does anyone know of a CSA serving Hobart in Tasmania? Cheers Anton *--------------------------------------------------------------------* This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the AusAID Help Desk on +61 (0)2 6206 4666. Or email AusAID_Help!!@ausaid.gov.au This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for the presence of computer viruses before transmission. *--------------------------------------------------------------------* From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 23 22:09:48 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18245 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:09:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA21729; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:58:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from server.norex.com.au (server.norex.com.au [203.34.220.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21608 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:57:12 -0500 (CDT) From: isis@norex.com.au Received: from athena (ts-2-p2.norex.com.au [203.34.220.50]) by server.norex.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA07295 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:57:11 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990824112600.009162e0@norex.com.au> X-Sender: isis@norex.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:26:00 +1000 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: CSA in Hobart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 522 Anton, Yes there is CSA operating in Hobart. Mark Patton has been running one for a couple of years, he is based next to a Steiner school in Kingston(I think). I have not been there, but he gave talk at our annual BD group about his CSA. Hope this helps. Jenny From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 07:13:22 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24104 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA23230; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 06:01:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23062 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 05:59:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.166.84] (pm3mbr1-166-32.intrepid.net [209.190.166.32]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA05853 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 06:59:31 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:04:36 -0400 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 523 Hi! For the first year CSA, would you share with me how your price tomatoes by the bushel for your memebers? (I guess I should make it clear that we did not sell all of our shares this year.) Pricing for picked and u-pick w.b. most appreciated. (Our varities are essentially the Seeds of Change herilooms.) Thanks -Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA Charles Town, WV csa@claymont.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 08:49:05 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24745 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA29597; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:37:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29465 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:36:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from erin.excite.com ([198.3.99.254]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990824123618.FBNP296.kuku@erin.excite.com> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 05:36:18 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel Message-Id: <935498177.201.539@excite.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 05:36:17 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.66 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 524 On Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:04:36 -0400, Allan Balliett wrote: > Hi! > > For the first year CSA, would you share with me how your price tomatoes by > the bushel for your memebers? (I guess I should make it clear that we did > not sell all of our shares this year.) Pricing for picked and u-pick w.b. > most appreciated. (Our varities are essentially the Seeds of Change > herilooms.) > > Thanks > Right now wholesale price for certified tomatoes in Ohio is $1.00lb. A case/bushel weighs 25lbs. I don't know what U-pick would be. We have been getting about $1.10lb at the local farmers markets for certified tomatoes-all heirlooms, brandywines (pink and yellow), persimmon, opalka, Mr Stripy, yellow taxi, etc. we get about $2lb for sungold & yellow pear cherry tomatoes. > Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 09:20:15 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25059 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA02063; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:08:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.thestreet.com (smtp.thestreet.com [208.241.190.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01972 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:08:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jherr ([209.122.227.179]) by smtp.thestreet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58593U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id com; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:47:03 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990824090845.00f0cac4@mail.thestreet.com> X-Sender: Jherr@mail.thestreet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:08:59 +0000 To: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" , CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Jeff Herr Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 525 Here in the Pacific Northwest--where growing tomatoes is a struggle and a leap of faith (blight man cometh)--we've found that retail prices are higher. At the farmer's market we sell heirlooms and hybrids alike for $3/pound. And small tomatoes like sungold for $3 per pint. We sell out (+/- 100 pounds) in a few hours. We all are desperate for fresh tomatoes around here and as a result, demand is high. Our guys are priced a little higher than some of the neighboring stands. Others sell heirlooms for $3/pound and hybrids/paste tomatoes for half that. On the wholesale front, we have a standing offer to sell to the local coop at $3 a pound. Good luck. -- Jeff The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA At 05:36 AM 8/24/99 PDT, Lucy Goodman-Owsley wrote: >On Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:04:36 -0400, Allan Balliett wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> For the first year CSA, would you share with me how your price tomatoes >by >> the bushel for your memebers? (I guess I should make it clear that we did >> not sell all of our shares this year.) Pricing for picked and u-pick w.b. >> most appreciated. (Our varities are essentially the Seeds of Change >> herilooms.) >> >> Thanks >> >Right now wholesale price for certified tomatoes in Ohio is $1.00lb. A >case/bushel weighs 25lbs. I don't know what U-pick would be. We have been >getting about $1.10lb at the local farmers markets for certified >tomatoes-all heirlooms, brandywines (pink and yellow), persimmon, opalka, Mr >Stripy, yellow taxi, etc. we get about $2lb for sungold & yellow pear cherry >tomatoes. >> > >Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 10:57:06 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26739 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10955; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:45:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10790 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:44:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dotty.excite.com ([199.172.152.205]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990824144419.FQJO296.kuku@dotty.excite.com> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:44:19 -0700 From: "Teresa%2B Kohut" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: chickens.... Message-Id: <935505858.13611.718@excite.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:44:18 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.115.48.67 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 526 We have 15 chickens here on our farm and 2 have died. I don't know what made them sick, but their symptoms were a poopy butt and gradual loss of energy to even roost. If anyone has an idea on what it could be, please let me know, so if it's contagious I could control it. Thanks. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 11:53:44 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27683 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA15939; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:42:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root@mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15850 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:41:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 165.227.130.30 (sa-165-227-130-30.cruzio.com [165.227.130.30]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id IAA02026; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C25C87.1C41@mariquita.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:49:11 +0000 From: Julia Wiley Reply-To: csa@mariquita.com Organization: Mariquita Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allan Balliett CC: CSA list Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 527 In our 3 years of a 100+ member CSA, we have found that to give too much of something only hurt us in the end. Example: If in our $14/week share, we give out an extra free "$5 - $10" of tomatoes, the FOLLOWING week everyone wants to know why the share is so small. (We base our prices on the low end of farmers market prices) We do sometimes offer these kinds bounties, with a clear explanation in our newsletter. You could also offer a special picked bushel rate for would-be canners. Julia -- ______________________________________ Mariquita Farm Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 (831)761-3226 http://www.mariquita.com e-mail: csa@mariquita.com _______________________________________ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 12:00:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27823 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16657; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:49:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16567 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:48:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 11338 invoked from network); 24 Aug 1999 15:48:27 -0000 Received: from i48-46-10.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.9.74) (216.26.9.74) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 24 Aug 1999 15:48:27 -0000 Message-ID: <37C2BF4B.6933@teleport.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:50:39 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allan Balliett CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 528 Here's the delimma: If you are a CSA (that is, members put up the money to run the farm, what grows is distributed evenly among the members - you share the risk of bad harvests and the bounty of good harvests) how do you have any tomatoes to sell to anyone? Don't they already belong to the members? If you have a "split" operation, i.e. some CSA, some market garden, how do you allocate resources during a bad year? E.g. if disease wipes out halpo of your tomatoes who doesn't get tomatoes? If market prices for tomatoes are really high do more tomatoes go to market at teh expense of members? In a good year do you split the market sales profits with members? In bad years do you ask them to make up for shortfalls? Hopw do you "share the risk/share the bounty" with a split operation? Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust www.osalt.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 12:44:01 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28480 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA23398; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:32:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23275 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:31:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA22647 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:31:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-245.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.245) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma015282; Tue Aug 24 10:53:15 1999 Message-ID: <00c801beee48$a3c05720$98fe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Re: chickens.... Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:52:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 529 Is the poop liquid. If so one disease is coccidiosis. I assume there are others that cause loose poop. I believe this is what I lost one chicken to. I have been medicating the rest with sulfur so far they are ok. This is self diagnosis so take with grain of salt. Also these chicks are primarily pets for our own use so there lose of "organic" status was unimportant. But I do have a question I read there needs to be a weaning of meat chickens that have been give sulfur and that it is not recommended for egg layers. Is there a weaning time for the eggs? We have two roster which we don't plan to eat (pets) unless they turn into attack chickens. The chickens are not yet laying. Is the sulfur not good to eat or is it taste? Another question are rhubarb leaves poison for chickens like humans and cows. I let the chickens out lots of grass etc. right into the rhubarb pecking away, gesh. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Teresa%2B Kohut To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 10:45 AM Subject: chickens.... >We have 15 chickens here on our farm and 2 have died. I don't know what made >them sick, but their symptoms were a poopy butt and gradual loss of energy >to even roost. If anyone has an idea on what it could be, please let me >know, so if it's contagious I could control it. Thanks. > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 12:59:08 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28721 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA24967; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:47:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24864 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:46:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA25892; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:44:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-245.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.245) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018801; Tue Aug 24 11:07:34 1999 Message-ID: <00d301beee4a$a3be4960$98fe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Allan Balliett" Cc: Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:06:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 530 We have been struggling with this as well. But I have read that members do not like being overwhelmed, food goes to waste they feel bad and this has led to not signing up again (info in a book of end of year surveys). We include a chart in our flyer of expected yields. We have been remiss in some high in others. We have been sharing the bounty and will not charge for baskets of extras for freezing etc. We feel that the extra tomatoes make up for a a bit less cucumbers. However we have not given our members every extra tomato. We sold a few wholesale and donated a few to a soup kitchen. So risk/bounty while there is some it is you might say managed. We also never advertised the sharing the risk aspect of CSA. I think this was discussed a while back. We had decided we would refund money if we ever got whipped out crop wise. Many flyers I have seen advertise "baskets" of veggies extra. Frankly I see nothing wrong with it. Our $350 membership is more than fair. Remember sustainable means the farmer can stay in business, keep land open, keep a local crop. Its hard work it does deserve respect . In modern society that usually means being paid a fair wage etc.and without a doubt in these our struggling early years we are not getting a fair wage, we think of course this will improve as we improve Beth -----Original Message----- From: Will Newman II To: Allan Balliett Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel >Here's the delimma: > >If you are a CSA (that is, members put up the money to run the farm, >what grows is distributed evenly among the members - you share the risk >of bad harvests and the bounty of good harvests) how do you have any >tomatoes to sell to anyone? Don't they already belong to the members? > >If you have a "split" operation, i.e. some CSA, some market garden, how >do you allocate resources during a bad year? E.g. if disease wipes out >halpo of your tomatoes who doesn't get tomatoes? If market prices for >tomatoes are really high do more tomatoes go to market at teh expense of >members? > >In a good year do you split the market sales profits with members? In >bad years do you ask them to make up for shortfalls? > >Hopw do you "share the risk/share the bounty" with a split operation? > >Will Newman II >CSA at Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust >www.osalt.org > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 13:13:02 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28922 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26360; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:01:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root@mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26229 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:00:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 165.227.138.61 (sa-165-227-138-61.cruzio.com [165.227.138.61]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id KAA26064; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C26F16.4DD9@mariquita.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:08:23 +0000 From: Julia Wiley Reply-To: csa@mariquita.com Organization: Mariquita Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: osalt@teleport.com CC: CSA list Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel References: <37C2BF4B.6933@teleport.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 531 This is an intersting topic: one we have discussed over our dinner table many times. The members are paying in to support the farm, but how much risk are they willing to take? This may be a geographical difference. In our area we 'compete' with great health food stores, many large and professional year-round farmers markets, as well as several CSA's right here in our own county. Here on the central California coast the public is spoiled with the possibility of year-round gardens, and even conventional supermarkets doing a great job on produce. (Nearly all of our local supermarkets have organic sections.) We've found people are not willing to take the risk with us, and what we offer is a service, including lots of education via the newsletter. I'm curious how other CSAs on this list share their bounty, Will asks some good questions. Julia -- ______________________________________ Mariquita Farm Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 (831)761-3226 http://www.mariquita.com e-mail: csa@mariquita.com _______________________________________ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 24 13:13:27 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28930 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26455; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:02:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (mail.pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26298 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:01:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.224] [209.8.149.167] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A11A3EBC0150; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:06:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00d301beee4a$a3be4960$98fe6ed1@dan> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:00:30 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 532 What we do when the tomato deluge hits is we let our 200+ shares have 'all you can eat' After the first week of this. their eyes tend not to be larger than their stomachs. This only works because we do not prebag but let the shares pick their own veggies from the baskets. We also have 'pick for canning days' where the shareholders can come out and pick a bushel. It's hard to plant enough tomato plants to give you enough tomatoes in the beginning and end of the season and not too many in the middle. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 25 04:12:32 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA18169 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA11911; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:01:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from svr-sun.ktg.gau.hu (svr-sun.ktg.gau.hu [193.225.204.92]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11114 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:59:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nt.ktg.gau.hu (nt.ktg.gau.hu [193.225.204.93]) by svr-sun.ktg.gau.hu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA23643 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:49:21 -0100 (GMT) Received: from cdr (193.225.204.78) by nt.ktg.gau.hu (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:01:36 +0200 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:01:36 +0200 Message-ID: X-Sender: matthew@nt.ktg.gau.hu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: osalt@teleport.com From: Matthew Hayes Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by/Risk sharing Cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 533 Dear Will and CSA list Thanks for this discussion. This issue seems to be at the very core of what the CSA "movement" is all about. The problem of risk sharing I think can only be resolved when we take a long-term perspective, and realise that what CSA is about is partly supplying organic vegetables direct to consumers, but partly educating the public away from the boom/bust economics of agriculture. The aim of the CSA movement is, I beleive, to bring more ecological and economic stability to agriculture, with sustainability as an aim (I dislike using the term sustainable as it is so used up, but it's an important concept, nonetheless). Of course I'm preaching here to the converted here, and this is nothing new to people on the list, but I think we have to somewhere keep the long-term goal embedded somewhere at the back of our minds, to guide our daily actions. Having said this, we are also a "split" (compromised???) CSA - i.e. both supplying a consumer group and a farmers' market. I have to agree with Julia, that it tends to work against our interests next week or next year if we become too generous in one week, as the following weeks produce will inevitably be less abundant. Our solution (so far, but I'm interested in the other solutions people are offering), is to pack a good, solid, full box each week, offer some surplus produce for people to take away ad lib, and take the rest to market. In principle the CSA group always get priority of the harvest, but economics dictate that if we can sell produce at a good price at market, then some of the harvest is diverted that way. I do beleive good value is important for the CSA group members, as few of are members are committed enough to accept a low or zero harvest, and go on paying the share price (although we do have a few who probably would under exceptional conditions). The "educational" side of our work can only take place very slowly - as essentially by most people's standards, CSA marketing is very radical. I should add, that we are in a perhaps even more transitionary position than most groups in the US, as here in Hungary CSA is entirely new. This is our second year, and this year for the first time we've offered whole season shares to be paid in advance of the harvest. We've had about a 20% uptake of this, which given the novelty of the system, and the tight home economics prevalent in Hungary, I think this is a promising start. The rest of our members for this season will purchase their boxes weekly (with an advanced payment of one week), at a set rate which runs until the end of the season, irrespective of the contents of the box. This intermediate CSA system, is about as radical as the current local circumstances will allow, in my opinion. But for us, the CSA flag is being carried by you guys out there, who can develop ever more imaginative and innovative solutions. Greetings Matthew Hayes ============================================================================= Matthew Hayes Institute of Environmental and Landscape Management Godollo Agricultural University H-2103 Godollo Pater K.u.1. Hungary Tel: ++36 28-415 383,or 310 131 ext.1058 Fax: ++36 28-415 383 E-mail: Matthew@nt.ktg.gau.hu From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 25 05:18:15 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18535 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 05:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA09932; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:06:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09633 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.207.69.65] (dialup000.serv.net [207.207.69.65]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA14503 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908250906.CAA14503@mx.serv.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:19:44 -0700 Subject: Re: Risk sharing and Grain raising From: "Adam Gottschalk" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 534 Matthew I know it's kind of off topic, but the following issue is very significant in my eyes. You said: > what >CSA is about is partly supplying organic vegetables direct to consumers My assessments of history, economics, agriculture and ecology all lead me to believe strongly that when CSAs limit themselves to only vegetables, they necessarily limit themselves a great deal in their total potential impact. People don't live on vegetables. In fact, 70% of our calories and nutrition come either directly or indirectly from GRAINS. (I won't here get into controversial questions of the inefficiencies associated with feeding those grains to animals but...) Meat-eater and vegetarian alike--70% from grains. If CSAs want to really impact people's lives, beyond just supplying some salad vegetables in summer, they need to incorporate grains as a major part of their offerings (especially in the majority of the world outside of America and Europe where grain is directly still the foundation of the human diet as it should be.) On top of everything, grain residues are the premier source of carbonaceous material to be reincorporated into the soil to prevent soil erosion. In America we've lost more than 70% of the topsoil we had when European marauders first arrived; contrast this fact with the fact that all over the country today, corporate, agribusiness grain farmers BURN their residues and pour mass loads of petroleum-based nitrogen back into their ground, with no concern for carbon whatsoever (even the hydrocarbon pollution all their machinery, pesticides and fertilizers wash into the air and water). Now before anyone writes to tell me how impossible small-scale grain raising is...I just don't have time for that view. The histories of the world (and the experiences of many today, including myself) say small-scale grain raising is not only entirely possible *but abosolutely necessary* to counteract the continuing forces of concentration, capitalization, mechanization, chemicalization, biotechnology, etc. For my purposes it is not a question of whether or not it can be done, but how the CSA movement needs to be transformed to address this overwhelmingly important issue. Peace Adam ---------- >From: Matthew Hayes >To: osalt@teleport.com >Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by/Risk sharing >Date: Wed, Aug 25, 1999, 01:01 > >what >CSA is about is partly supplying organic vegetables direct to consumers From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 25 06:56:38 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19323 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:56:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA22735; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 05:45:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22504 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 05:44:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ringo.excite.com ([199.172.152.145]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990825104407.TASR530.fortune@ringo.excite.com> for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:44:07 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Risk sharing and Grain raising Message-Id: <935577848.21674.26@excite.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:44:08 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.60 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 535 > > >I think what the CSA is about is much more than supplying food-it is about supplying community which at least in the US where almost no one knows their neighbors, is as important as food. But Adam, I agree with you that grains should be grown on small holdings. We grow rye and sweet corn and want to start growing wheat, soy and feed corn for us and our poultry but have yet to figure out how to fit all of that onto under 5 acres along with the fruits and vegetables. Last year we had a few members very interested in our rye and dried sweet corn for milling but I don't know if the majority of CSAers would be thrilled about getting 10lb of wheat seed or whole corn and having to procees the grains themselves (how many folks own or can borrow a home grain mill?) and it would be a problem for most CSA's to buy the equipment to do the processing for the members. I am finding with members it is strange enough for them to have to deal with raw veggies and fruits much less a grain that isn't already made into bread or something. Remember we live in a society where about 90% of the food dollar goes to processed foods-either thru eating out or home heated food (referred to as home made by the FDA, but I cannot called anything precooked that comes out of a bag "homemade"). I guess the grain thing will work with a few years of education both grower and consumer. There is little better than using freshly milled grains in baking-Yum! Another great crop, along grain, lines is dried beans-we normally grow about 3/4acre of various heirloom beans such as black turtle, anasazi, calypso and tiger's eye. These are easy to harvest and fairly easy to hand clean Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 25 07:35:32 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19493 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA09803; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:24:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09235 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:22:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA26633; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:22:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-203.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.203) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026590; Wed Aug 25 06:21:33 1999 Message-ID: <015801beeeeb$de65eea0$98fe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" , Subject: Grain raising/dried beans Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:20:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 536 Lucy you took the words out of my mouth. Grain Raising on a small scale I no doubt believe is possible, but most of my CSA are suburbanites. They want pesticides free food, many shop only at Health Food Stores. Yet most did not know what a "broccoli" looked like growing for example. As Lucy said a "huge" minority of my local population could I see dealing with whole or even milled grains. Farmer effort in consumer appreciation out would not be equal. At this time of year after working long hours that equation, when considering a new crop is important to us. Lucy you mention dry beans. I have kidney and azuki as we speak can you give me a quick "lesson" in picking a drying. Thank-you snip thrilled about getting 10lb of wheat seed or whole corn and having to >procees the grains themselves (how many folks own or can borrow a home grain >mill?) and it would be a problem for most CSA's to buy the equipment to do >the processing for the members. I am finding with members it is strange >enough for them to have to deal with raw veggies and fruits much less a >grain that isn't already made into bread or something. Remember we live in a >society where about 90% of the food dollar goes to processed foods-either >thru eating out or home heated food (referred to as home made by the FDA, >but I cannot called anything precooked that comes out of a bag "homemade"). >I guess the grain thing will work with a few years of education both grower >and consumer. There is little better than using freshly milled grains in >baking-Yum! > >Another great crop, along grain, lines is dried beans-we normally grow about >3/4acre of various heirloom beans such as black turtle, anasazi, calypso and >tiger's eye. These are easy to harvest and fairly easy to hand clean > >Lucy Goodman-Owsley >Boulder Belt CSA >New Paris, OH >http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 25 10:03:26 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21772 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA07578; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:51:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06791 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:50:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.166.243] (pm3mbr3-166-112.intrepid.net [209.190.166.112]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17109 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:41:51 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <015801beeeeb$de65eea0$98fe6ed1@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:46:23 -0400 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: Re: Grain raising/dried beans Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 537 Everybody is probably aware of this by now, but I will post it again because it is so appropriate. At the Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Food and Farming conference, OCT 1-3, in Charles Town, WV, one of the threads of lectures and workshops will be 'Small Scale Small Grain production.' Organized by appropriate agriculture technology guru, Eugen Canales (see his article on this topic in the September ACRES), this discussion at the conference will feature presentations by Greg Shultz, founder and director of NewFarms, an initiative in the Santa Fe area that in the past couple of years has organized local farmers into a small grain cooperative. They now jointly own their own bakery! The upshot is that small scale growers are making the same prices at their own gates that the wholesalers used to get in the cities. (Much of the equipment appropriate for grain work is also appropriate for working with dried beans, I understand.) Gene Logsdon has said 'If you can't grow grains, you're simply growing salad and you will never be truly independent.' I have to concur with that. I'll do what I can to see that the workshops and presentations at this year's confence get taped for those who can't attend. It would be wonderful, however, if as many as possible will attend and contribute to the discussion, which will also include Steve and Carol Moore of the NE Robyn Van En CSA Resource Center. (Steve will also do a workshop on commercial passive solar greenhouse design and production.) You can get more information on the many other speakers at the conference at http:www.igg.com/bdnow/bdconf or by emailing me directly. Thanks -Allan Balliett csa@claymont.org =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. Don't miss the 1999 Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference this October 1-3 at Claymont Court, near the Baltimore-Washington Megalopolis. For more information: http://www.igg.com/bdnow Archives to BD Now! are located at: http://csf.colorado.edu/biodynamics/ To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 25 10:10:05 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21873 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA10685; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:58:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from waddle.excite.com (waddle-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.222]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10388 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:58:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from canyon.excite.com ([199.172.152.178]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990825123048.KZQX7470.gigi@canyon.excite.com> for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 05:30:48 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: dried beans Message-Id: <935584247.19726.203@excite.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 05:30:47 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.81 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 538 Dried beans are super easy. Just let them dry in the field until the pods are just about to burst open, a few will have done this already spreading beans on the ground. At this point you can either pick the beans off of the plant or pull the whole plant and get the pods off of the plants at a later time. We put the pods in paper bags and put them up in the attic (which is a huge dehydrator during the spring/summer/fall) to dry more until we are ready to clean the beans (this could be up to 3 months). Cleaning the beans is easy but time consuming. Simply take a bag of beans in pods and start shelling, much like peas. I believe there are human powered devices to do this task and speed it up considerably but I don't know what they are or where you'd get it. To speed things up I will put on gloves and start crushing the pods in the bag and than using the wind (or a fan is the weather is still) I will winnow the pod chaff from the beans by putting crushed pods and beans in a shallow pan, like a pie plate and tossing the the beans and chaff it the air, letting the wind take the chaff away. Store the beans in air tight containers in a cool place. Unfortunately this year I won't be cleaning too many beans as the Ohio drought pretty much did in all the beans on our farm and at this point, while the plants are still alive they have few pods on them and I doubt the pods have much in them. > > > Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 25 14:00:03 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26579 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15654; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:48:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15534 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:47:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26918>; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:55:26 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Dan Hook" cc: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" , CSA-L@prairienet.org Message-Id: <99Aug25.125526cdt.26918@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:44:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Grain raising/dried beans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 539 Beth said: But even suburbanites buy bread machines! Out this way, due to the short growing season, many CSA's offer stuff that can be stored, dried or preserved easily & pulses and cereals fall into that category. You don't even have to raise grains on a small scale if you don't want to.- Dori & others on this list have spoken of regional alliances both formal & informal to swap produce for specialty grains & fruits. Just make sure you let your subscribers know where their stuff is coming from... Alan Said: I don't think I'd go that far. Most people are not looking for total self-sufficiency- just reduced amounts of pesticide in their food. The kinds of cross-farm alliances suggested above, would allow producers to specialise in what they want to grow & subscribers to get a tremendous variety of produce. BTW, my 13-year-old just came back from summer camp. He was the only one on his canoe trip who'd ever eaten kidney beans before (not to mention home-made flat bread baked on the fire) ! Most of his pals eat nothing at home but instant macaroni & cheese and take-out pizza. Your subscribers are already a LONG LONG way from the dismal norm.... From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 25 19:07:46 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03517 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15797; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:56:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from premier1.premier1.net (root@premier1.premier1.net [206.40.134.38]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15560 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:55:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from premier1 (red-1-146.premier1.net [207.149.54.146]) by premier1.premier1.net (8.8.6/8.7) with SMTP id PAA20569 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908252251.PAA20569@premier1.premier1.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: mjb@premier1.net To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:57:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: re-chickens X-Confirm-Reading-To: mjb@mail.premier1.net X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 540 There are so many diseases with the symptoms you describe that I am hesitant to even give you an opionion. However, if you have anymore sick chickens isolate them immediately. Most likely the infection will be transmitted through feces. Are your chickens confined or free-range, is there standing water anywhere where they can get to for instance around their waterer, do you feed on the ground? Let me know and I can help you figure out what to do to keep the infection from spreading. I've been raising organic chickens, meat and layer for many, many years and have figured out solutions to some, but not all problems. Michaele Blakely Growing Things Carnation WA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Aug 25 19:33:20 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04176 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA22785; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:21:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22662 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:21:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA24350 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:20:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2d-124.ix.netcom.com(209.110.255.124) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024323; Wed Aug 25 18:20:21 1999 Message-ID: <002801beef50$4ba0bcc0$7cff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" Cc: Subject: Re: Grain raising/dried beans Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:19:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 541 >Alan Said: >salad and you will never be truly independent.' I have to concur with that.> >I don't think I'd go that far. Most people are not looking for total >self-sufficiency- just reduced amounts of pesticide in their food. The kinds of >cross-farm alliances suggested above, would allow producers to specialise in >what they want to grow & subscribers to get a tremendous variety of produce. >Pat said: >BTW, my 13-year-old just came back from summer camp. He was the only one on his >canoe trip who'd ever eaten kidney beans before (not to mention home-made flat >bread baked on the fire) ! Most of his pals eat nothing at home but instant >macaroni & cheese and take-out pizza. Your subscribers are already a LONG LONG >way from the dismal norm.... > Pat you are right about the above. In the big picture I have a good group. I read in the book Sharing the Harvest (good book by the way) that one CSA owner could tell if a member was one that would sign up again but how they cooked. Basically if they liked to sort of experiment throw in what ever was available they and CSA were a good match. If they were not an imaginative cook then they and CSA were not likely to be a good match. I thought that was a good observation. I love the people who tell me "I threw a little of this in with a little of this and it was great". I had one lady tell me she like the "unknown" of her weekly basket, saved her from having to decide what to buy (she was raised on a small farm, so she not the best example :) ). And a few of my people are vegetarians. So as a group they are ahead of the pizza instant food group. Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Aug 26 02:29:55 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08836 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 02:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA04187; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 01:18:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from svr-sun.ktg.gau.hu (svr-sun.ktg.gau.hu [193.225.204.92]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03946 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 01:17:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nt.ktg.gau.hu (nt.ktg.gau.hu [193.225.204.93]) by svr-sun.ktg.gau.hu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA25649 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:07:57 -0100 (GMT) Received: from cdr (193.225.204.78) by nt.ktg.gau.hu (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:20:19 +0200 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:20:19 +0200 Message-ID: X-Sender: matthew@nt.ktg.gau.hu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Dan Hook" From: Matthew Hayes Subject: Re: Grain raising/dried beans Cc: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 542 Dear Beth Could you please let me know from where I can order a copy of the book you mention, "Sharing the Harvest"? Many thanks Matthew ============================================================================= Matthew Hayes Institute of Environmental and Landscape Management Godollo Agricultural University H-2103 Godollo Pater K.u.1. Hungary Tel: ++36 28-415 383,or 310 131 ext.1058 Fax: ++36 28-415 383 E-mail: Matthew@nt.ktg.gau.hu From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Aug 26 08:56:29 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11738 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA25786; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:44:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25103 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:43:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA05596; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:42:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2d-124.ix.netcom.com(209.110.255.124) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005500; Thu Aug 26 07:42:09 1999 Message-ID: <004001beefc0$52257b60$7cff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Matthew Hayes" Cc: Subject: Re: Grain raising/dried beans Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:41:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 543 Matthew, Amazingly enough I bought it at a Borders book store. I couldn't believe it was there. I buy few books, I have a thing for the library. However I like reference type books and I figured my library would never get this book. Although they have the Contrary Farmer by Gene Logsdon pretty good book as well. I paid 25is for the Sharing the Harvest book. Info that may help Sharing the Harvest by Elizabeth Henderson with Robyn Van En published by Chelsea Green Publishing Company PO Box 428 White River Junction Vt 05001 www.chelseagreen.com It got some funding from Sare www.uvm.edu/~nesare/ Beth -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Hayes To: Dan Hook Cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Date: Thursday, August 26, 1999 2:18 AM Subject: Re: Grain raising/dried beans >Dear Beth > >Could you please let me know from where I can order a copy of the book you >mention, "Sharing the Harvest"? > >Many thanks >Matthew >=========================================================================== == > >Matthew Hayes >Institute of Environmental and Landscape Management >Godollo Agricultural University >H-2103 Godollo >Pater K.u.1. >Hungary >Tel: ++36 28-415 383,or 310 131 ext.1058 >Fax: ++36 28-415 383 >E-mail: Matthew@nt.ktg.gau.hu > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Aug 26 09:44:55 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12452 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA15132; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:33:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14826 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:32:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.166.87] (pm3mbr2-166-106.intrepid.net [209.190.166.106]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27295; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:32:41 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37C47DD1.763E2EB7@home.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:37:52 -0400 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Allan Balliett Subject: Re: Grain raising/dried beans Cc: Jay Woods Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 544 >I sure need to know about the equipment for grain work. I'm working up to a >couple of acres of small grains, lentils, and beans. ---Jay Jay (and others!), I apologize, I didn't do the last post correctly. The article by Eugene Canales which will appear in the September ACRES USA (not out yet!) is available as a page that you can link to from the 4th Annual Mid-Atlantic Food and Farming Conference http://www.igg.com/bdnow/bdconf (let me know if you have difficulty finding this page. The pictures are available as links from the parts of the article which discuss them.) I hope this is more helpful! Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA, Charles Town, WV BIODYNAMICS Now! Voice Mail: (304) 724-6763 FAX Forwarding (815) 550-6067 =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. Don't miss the 1999 Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference this October 1-3 at Claymont Court, near the Baltimore-Washington Megalopolis. For more information: http://www.igg.com/bdnow Archives to BD Now! are located at: http://csf.colorado.edu/biodynamics/ To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Aug 26 11:08:36 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14219 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA15393; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:57:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from baldr.metro.net (smtp1.metro.net [205.217.52.128]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA15002 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:56:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ig136.5.dial.innovation.com (ig136.5.dial.innovation.com [209.249.5.136]) by baldr.metro.net (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.ac0i) with ESMTP id ga911982 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:14:50 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990826145344.03735578@mail.metro.net> X-Sender: ctbowland@mail.metro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:53:44 -0700 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Chris & Tanya Bowland Subject: Re: Grain raising/dried beans Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 545 That book is available online. Amazon.com carries it. I will be using it this Fall for a class I am teaching. BTW this leads me to announce that for any of you in Northern California, I will be teaching a course this fall on CSA's at the Santa Rosa Junior College. It is one of the new courses being offered in the Ecological Ag curriculum. It will be 8 weeks and start with history and structure, then go into crop planning and share pricing. Respond to me individually if interested. Chris At 08:20 AM 8/26/99 +0200, you wrote: >Dear Beth > >Could you please let me know from where I can order a copy of the book you >mention, "Sharing the Harvest"? > >Many thanks >Matthew >============================================================================= > >Matthew Hayes >Institute of Environmental and Landscape Management >Godollo Agricultural University >H-2103 Godollo >Pater K.u.1. >Hungary >Tel: ++36 28-415 383,or 310 131 ext.1058 >Fax: ++36 28-415 383 >E-mail: Matthew@nt.ktg.gau.hu > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Aug 26 18:25:52 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25510 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA00795; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:14:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA00660 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:13:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:13:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908262213.RAA00660@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 24730 invoked from network); 26 Aug 1999 22:12:49 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as005-100.iquest.net (209.43.55.100) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 1999 22:12:49 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: organic farms Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 546 >Return-Path: >Delivered-To: cvof@iquest.net >From: ediemay@webtv.net >X-WebTV-Signature: 1 > ETAsAhRiGxAotJspQpBdABArWfv0kD99twIUazKKtEb+DFLxiGmaMCleZ93wO80= >Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:03:12 -0400 (EDT) >To: cvof@iquest.net >Subject: organic farms >Content-Disposition: Inline > >Dear Sir, >Do you know of any organic farms located near New York City or Long >Island? If so, please send their addresses. Thanks. EM Greenwood > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Aug 26 18:45:43 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26036 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA02574; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:33:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA02503 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:33:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:33:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908262233.RAA02503@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 15053 invoked from network); 26 Aug 1999 22:33:31 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as005-100.iquest.net (209.43.55.100) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 1999 22:33:31 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: osalt@teleport.com From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel Cc: Allan Balliett , csa-l@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 547 I have a "split operation, BUT... The CSA members here do not "share" the entire expenses of operating this farm. I know in some cases the members might, or that they even hire the farmer, but here they pay for a share that is defined by bushels or fractions thereof. They are guaranteed 20 weeks of their size share, unless disaster hits. The items in the baskets are up to us, until we get bumper crops and then they can have more input into how much of what (though never more than their total share, in other words if they get 1/2 bushel and want all one thing if we have it we will give a 1/2 bushel of it--within reason. After all, a bushel of some things is worth a LOT more than a bushel of others.) We have "free" items in boxes that they can have all they want of--first come first served. They respect one another nicely on this one. And we have items for sale--individual quantities and bulk for the canners. In good years we extend (for free) the pickups (no guaratnees on items or quantities and they have to notify us about pickups) 2-4 weeks and we try, if notified in advance, to make up for missed pickups if there is a good reason (forgetting is not a good reason--a family illness is). We have never had too little food for baskets though they have been subjected to a lot of mustard greens some years and none the next. When we have too much it is not considered free unless we just can't get rid of it. To have members deserve an equal share they must share the risk equally with the farmer. There may be examples of this, but so far I know the CSAs here have farmers make the largest investment and members get a reasonable and fair return for their dollars. CSa members do get bulk items for wholesale or less prices. Other stuff goes to retail stores or the farmers market. In a bad year (or a good one) CSA members get food first. Then other markets do. Wholesale sales require cases of high quality so you usually plant those crops in addition to what you plant for CSA--you don't rely on bumper crops for wholesale or you won't have consistent quantity and quality. If we have a bad tomato year then each CSA member gets their share--even if it is one tomato. NEVER do we market prior to taking care of CSA--depsite prices. If there is not enough of an item to go around we just tell the earlybirds that quantities are limited so the first ones here get the whatever it. Great way to get them to come early rather than waiting late--a problem this time of year. At 08:50 AM 8/24/99 -0700, Will Newman II wrote: >Here's the delimma: > >If you are a CSA (that is, members put up the money to run the farm, >what grows is distributed evenly among the members - you share the risk >of bad harvests and the bounty of good harvests) how do you have any >tomatoes to sell to anyone? Don't they already belong to the members? > >If you have a "split" operation, i.e. some CSA, some market garden, how >do you allocate resources during a bad year? E.g. if disease wipes out >halpo of your tomatoes who doesn't get tomatoes? If market prices for >tomatoes are really high do more tomatoes go to market at teh expense of >members? > >In a good year do you split the market sales profits with members? In >bad years do you ask them to make up for shortfalls? > >Hopw do you "share the risk/share the bounty" with a split operation? > >Will Newman II >CSA at Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust >www.osalt.org > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Aug 26 21:37:14 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29326 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA18364; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:25:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18260 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:24:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA24327; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:24:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-66.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.66) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma024315; Thu Aug 26 20:24:06 1999 Message-ID: <00d101bef02a$c53f3860$42f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Cecilia Bowman" Cc: Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:23:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 548 Well put, I hadn't really thought of it that way. No way do our members fully support the farm. If we added up everything plus a wage for ourselves which is advocated in some books I've read, our share would be way more expensive. Our CSA is part of a diversity of crops, which we plan to diversify even more or quite frankly I don't think we could afford the CSA or at least not a small intimate CSA. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Cecilia Bowman To: osalt@teleport.com Cc: Allan Balliett ; csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Thursday, August 26, 1999 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel >I have a "split operation, BUT... > >The CSA members here do not "share" the entire expenses of operating this >farm. I know in some cases the members might, or that they even hire the >farmer, but here they pay for a share that is defined by bushels or >fractions thereof. They are guaranteed 20 weeks of their size share, unless >disaster hits. The items in the baskets are up to us, until we get bumper >crops and then they can have more input into how much of what (though never >more than their total share, in other words if they get 1/2 bushel and want >all one thing if we have it we will give a 1/2 bushel of it--within reason. >After all, a bushel of some things is worth a LOT more than a bushel of others.) > >We have "free" items in boxes that they can have all they want of--first >come first served. They respect one another nicely on this one. And we >have items for sale--individual quantities and bulk for the canners. In >good years we extend (for free) the pickups (no guaratnees on items or >quantities and they have to notify us about pickups) 2-4 weeks and we try, >if notified in advance, to make up for missed pickups if there is a good >reason (forgetting is not a good reason--a family illness is). > > >We have never had too little food for baskets though they have been >subjected to a lot of mustard greens some years and none the next. When we >have too much it is not considered free unless we just can't get rid of it. >To have members deserve an equal share they must share the risk equally with >the farmer. There may be examples of this, but so far I know the CSAs here >have farmers make the largest investment and members get a reasonable and >fair return for their dollars. CSa members do get bulk items for wholesale >or less prices. Other stuff goes to retail stores or the farmers market. > > >In a bad year (or a good one) CSA members get food first. Then other >markets do. Wholesale sales require cases of high quality so you usually >plant those crops in addition to what you plant for CSA--you don't rely on >bumper crops for wholesale or you won't have consistent quantity and quality. > >If we have a bad tomato year then each CSA member gets their share--even if >it is one tomato. NEVER do we market prior to taking care of CSA--depsite >prices. If there is not enough of an item to go around we just tell the >earlybirds that quantities are limited so the first ones here get the >whatever it. Great way to get them to come early rather than waiting >late--a problem this time of year. > >At 08:50 AM 8/24/99 -0700, Will Newman II wrote: >>Here's the delimma: >> >>If you are a CSA (that is, members put up the money to run the farm, >>what grows is distributed evenly among the members - you share the risk >>of bad harvests and the bounty of good harvests) how do you have any >>tomatoes to sell to anyone? Don't they already belong to the members? >> >>If you have a "split" operation, i.e. some CSA, some market garden, how >>do you allocate resources during a bad year? E.g. if disease wipes out >>halpo of your tomatoes who doesn't get tomatoes? If market prices for >>tomatoes are really high do more tomatoes go to market at teh expense of >>members? >> >>In a good year do you split the market sales profits with members? In >>bad years do you ask them to make up for shortfalls? >> >>Hopw do you "share the risk/share the bounty" with a split operation? >> >>Will Newman II >>CSA at Natural Harvest Farm >>Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust >>www.osalt.org >> >> >> >Cissy Bowman, >President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education >Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association >Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ >8364 S SR 39 >Clayton, IN 46118 >317-539-4317 >cvof@iquest.net > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Aug 27 00:09:55 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01454 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 00:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA00892; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:58:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00750 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:56:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from brike1@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EJZGYUQM; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:54:31 EDT To: guldann@ix.netcom.com Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:59:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel Message-ID: <19990826.205927.-259717.0.brike1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,27-28,40-41,63-64,71-72,77-83,85-233 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: michael j isensee Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 549 I too think you put it well Dan. I have worked with two very different farms that run a "CSA." One has a 300+ member CSA in several cities and towns around the Bay Area (California) and also markets its products at 3 farmers markets, through retail accounts to co-ops, stores, and restaurants, and to wholesale accounts. Their CSA is set up where members can join or leave at any time, can pay monthly, quarterly or annually (with discounts for longer commitments) and can opt out of receiving a share while on vacation, etc. Members pay $70 a month and receive food that would be valued at that price by the farm at the farmers market. They typically receive 8 items a week that include both fruits and vegetables (and nuts) every week of the year (with 2 weeks off at the end of the year). It is typically very diverse and broad ranging through the seasons. for instance, a spring box would include spinach, salad mix, broccoli, asparagus, green garlic, artichokes, carrots and strawberries. A summer box would consist of basil, sweet corn, potatoes, summer squash, cucumbers, onions, melon, tomatoes and peaches. A winter box: cauliflower, leeks, salad mix, carrots, butternut, cabbage, spinach, and satsuma mandarins. People don't specifically share in the bounty of the season beyond receiving amazing seasonal offerings. Many members do not want to receive more food--this is urban california and many people eat out often, have small households, etc. They like supporting a farm on the suburban/rural fringe, receiving organic food picked in the last 36 hours, and (often) having it delivered to a drop off close to home or at work. They are, however, a very important part of the farms sales and offer a constant flow of money throughout the year. The other farm, which I am currently working on, is a 3 acre urban farm in Portland, Oregon. Our 50+ members join for a year at a time, pay either up front or in 3 installments, and receive a weekly share May through November and every other week through the winter (when the weather cooperates). The members are the only official outlet for food from the farm. They share in the bounty or shortfalls of crops at the farm. The "official" contract that is signed promises 36 deliveries with a total of 300 pounds of food from the farm or an equivalent amount of organic food purchased from wholesalers in the case of total crop losses. We anticipate reaching the 300 pound point by week 28, the end of our weekly shares at the end of November. The farm has never had a problem meeting that contractual minimum. However, we do not always send out the full bounty of the farm. Today, for instance, we had 30 pounds of extra cucumbers, after giving all shares (25 delivered today) more than 2 pounds. The same with summer squash--we had an extra 60 pounds. Sometimes we will send boxes of extra to delivery sites (we have 3, two on Mondays and one on Thursdays), but often much of that food is not taken. People do not like being overwhelmed with food. They are not canning/preserving and have limited refridgerator space. If members (or friends of the farmers) come to help at the farm, we typically offer as much of anything they want. We also give some of our harvest to other outlets from time to time. Today we delivered 30 bunches each of carrots and beets, the extra cukes and squash and 60 pounds of potatoes, to a co-op group that held its groundbreaking in town. They have hopes of having a farmers market and our food was to be given away as a "taste of things to come." I don't feel we are shortchanging members be doing this. We also have some crops where we have very slim harvests--artichokes an strawberries, both in for their first season. These are farmers treats and we have not tried to send out 1/4 pints to all our members or offered one artichoke to each of them. We also do not take time (or have time) to pick the apples, prune plums, or blackberries that grace our farm for the members. So they are farmer treats, and we do dry and can and preserve (and give away) these foods. My coworker worked on a CSA farm back east where all the members met to review the farm budget and pledge money toward it. There was no set CSA price. If the members did not pledge enough, the farmers would explain what in their budget would have to be cut: less crops, no lime for the soil, etc with the money pledged. The members would either repledge or live with that decision. The ultimate in member "ownership." But not a model I see working for most farm situations at this time. So there are some drastically different ways that CSA's are operating. I think they are all valid and it is most important to be up front with members, ask them what they want, and determine your own financial needs and make sure they are being met. Otherwise it's not sustainable in any way, shape or form. shalom michael isensee portland oregon On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:23:27 -0400 "Dan Hook" writes: >Well put, I hadn't really thought of it that way. No way do our >members >fully support the farm. If we added up everything plus a wage for >ourselves >which is advocated in some books I've read, our share would be way >more >expensive. Our CSA is part of a diversity of crops, which we plan >to >diversify even more or quite frankly I don't think we could afford the >CSA >or at least not a small intimate CSA. Beth >-----Original Message----- >From: Cecilia Bowman >To: osalt@teleport.com >Cc: Allan Balliett ; csa-l@prairienet.org > >Date: Thursday, August 26, 1999 6:33 PM >Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel > > >>I have a "split operation, BUT... >> >>The CSA members here do not "share" the entire expenses of operating >this >>farm. I know in some cases the members might, or that they even hire >the >>farmer, but here they pay for a share that is defined by bushels or >>fractions thereof. They are guaranteed 20 weeks of their size >share, >unless >>disaster hits. The items in the baskets are up to us, until we get >bumper >>crops and then they can have more input into how much of what >(though >never >>more than their total share, in other words if they get 1/2 bushel >and want >>all one thing if we have it we will give a 1/2 bushel of it--within >reason. >>After all, a bushel of some things is worth a LOT more than a bushel >of >others.) >> >>We have "free" items in boxes that they can have all they want >of--first >>come first served. They respect one another nicely on this one. And >we >>have items for sale--individual quantities and bulk for the canners. >In >>good years we extend (for free) the pickups (no guaratnees on items >or >>quantities and they have to notify us about pickups) 2-4 weeks and we >try, >>if notified in advance, to make up for missed pickups if there is a >good >>reason (forgetting is not a good reason--a family illness is). >> >> >>We have never had too little food for baskets though they have been >>subjected to a lot of mustard greens some years and none the next. >When we >>have too much it is not considered free unless we just can't get rid >of it. >>To have members deserve an equal share they must share the risk >equally >with >>the farmer. There may be examples of this, but so far I know the >CSAs here >>have farmers make the largest investment and members get a reasonable >and >>fair return for their dollars. CSa members do get bulk items for >wholesale >>or less prices. Other stuff goes to retail stores or the farmers >market. >> >> >>In a bad year (or a good one) CSA members get food first. Then >other >>markets do. Wholesale sales require cases of high quality so you >usually >>plant those crops in addition to what you plant for CSA--you don't >rely on >>bumper crops for wholesale or you won't have consistent quantity and >quality. >> >>If we have a bad tomato year then each CSA member gets their >share--even if >>it is one tomato. NEVER do we market prior to taking care of >CSA--depsite >>prices. If there is not enough of an item to go around we just tell >the >>earlybirds that quantities are limited so the first ones here get >the >>whatever it. Great way to get them to come early rather than >waiting >>late--a problem this time of year. >> >>At 08:50 AM 8/24/99 -0700, Will Newman II wrote: >>>Here's the delimma: >>> >>>If you are a CSA (that is, members put up the money to run the >farm, >>>what grows is distributed evenly among the members - you share the >risk >>>of bad harvests and the bounty of good harvests) how do you have >any >>>tomatoes to sell to anyone? Don't they already belong to the >members? >>> >>>If you have a "split" operation, i.e. some CSA, some market garden, >how >>>do you allocate resources during a bad year? E.g. if disease wipes >out >>>halpo of your tomatoes who doesn't get tomatoes? If market prices >for >>>tomatoes are really high do more tomatoes go to market at teh >expense of >>>members? >>> >>>In a good year do you split the market sales profits with members? >In >>>bad years do you ask them to make up for shortfalls? >>> >>>Hopw do you "share the risk/share the bounty" with a split >operation? >>> >>>Will Newman II >>>CSA at Natural Harvest Farm >>>Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust >>>www.osalt.org >>> >>> >>> >>Cissy Bowman, >>President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education >>Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association >>Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ >>8364 S SR 39 >>Clayton, IN 46118 >>317-539-4317 >>cvof@iquest.net >> > Michael Isensee 900 NW Mawrcrest Dr #203 Gresham OR 97030 503-674-9107 ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Aug 27 02:26:40 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02623 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA10343; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:15:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10213 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:13:51 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dHPPa28691 (4567) for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:13:11 EDT Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 11 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 550 This certainly has been an interesting thread. The comments on diversity of outlets interests me the most. But I can't help but feel that we are stuck in a box when it comes to diversifying our small farm financial support. There are no clear definitions for sustainable agriculture or community. It's an abstract concept that we are guided to pursue. We will neither recognize nor know it, until we achieve it. But I've noticed that the closer I come toward sustainability the more symbiotic the relationship become between the parts and the whole. All of the markets noted so far in diversifying financial support for small farms are produce outlets and many are wholesale outlets. I must be paying too much property tax because I can't afford to sell anything for less than retail. We had to go into the processing "added value" market to make our farm financially independent. We started growing medicinal herbs because I complained to my partner that we couldn't give away the culinary herbs and that the herb garden was becoming wasted space. She took an herbalist correspondence course and soon started cranking out herbal skin care products (soaps and skin creams). The profit margin of the skin care products is five times that of produce (we tried a dry bean soup mix one year and the members overwhelmingly disapproved). So now we are scaling back our CSA membership in order to devote more time to the other farming income. We continue to hold workshops, farm tours and internships to encourage new growers to venture into starting CSAs. But we don't have to meet all of the growing demand for healthy food. We do have to stay in business. Since diversity works so well in my fields why not apply those same principles to my direct farm sales? Many of the people who buy our herbal products can't appreciate the value of our fresh organic produce. Yet they support our farm even more then the tried and true CSA subscribers. I believe as more small farmers begin to diversify the products they sell that more people will begin to value small farmers. In the place where I grew up the accepted prejudice of farmers was, "Those stupid people who can't get jobs doing anything else." Prejudices are always misinforming and so ingrained that we need as many avenues as possible to chip away at the walls they create. I guess the purpose of this response is to get growers to start thinking outside of the grocery box. Make our farms viable businesses and society will begin to value and seek out our presence. Maybe then the county will allow me an agricultural easement for my property. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Aug 27 08:26:41 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05489 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA26820; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:12:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26706 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:11:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA02563 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:11:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-50.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.50) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002491; Fri Aug 27 07:11:06 1999 Message-ID: <014d01bef085$2a90c580$42f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Value added Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:10:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 551 --->Great response Micheal and Art. Value added my husband and I were just talking about it last night. I think jams and relishes would be intriguing but I suspect you have to have a special licence etc. Which as the years go by can't say I won't look into it. But what we were discussing last night was firewood. My husband has been selling firewood for approx. 20 years. Now that he's close to the big 50 he was feeling 100 cords is all he can handle not the 200 he is contracted to this year. (MDC. state property, forest thinning). We saw at a farm stand a grid arrangement in different sizes for wood that costs $45, $15 , and $8. Sold that way its about $270 a cord, $350 a cord and 400* a cord. By husband sells it delivered for $125-150 depending on how far away the customer is. The advantage of the above is its u-pick up. The disadvantage is we are off the beaten track and it will take awhile for business to pick-up(pun!). Any of our CSA members who want are entiled as part of their membership a $15 unit. We hope they tell their friends to come on up. Oh and those units while good for us in a value added sort of way, they are also good for the customer. The customer who usually buys those little bundles in the grocery store we figured depending on size you save 4-16 dollars. Our other "value added" products is pumkins. Not really anything added its just that pumkins sell for so much more than real food. I am in Massachusetts and last year upscale farm stands where getting $0.39 a pound. I sold a few for about .30. For an normal biggish pumkin its $8-10. Each member family get 3 pumkins with their membership, actually they may get a couple extra in that I planted some "extra" pumkins, small ones for pies, white ones, and little ones none of these promised on flyer they will be bonus. We planted way.........extra and hope to sell retail. We are going to advertise in the same paper that got us our 37 members. 1/2 page to full page we haven't decided yet. But as I said we are off the beaten path if we don't advertse I might be forced to make 1000 pumkins pies.......at $8 a piece well....... Good Good luck to everyone, Beth becoming wasted space. She took an herbalist correspondence course and soon >started cranking out herbal skin care products (soaps and skin creams). The >profit margin of the skin care products is five times that of produce (we >tried a dry bean soup mix one year and the members overwhelmingly >disapproved). So now we are scaling back our CSA membership in order to >devote more time to the other farming income. > We continue to hold workshops, farm tours and internships to encourage >new growers to venture into starting CSAs. But we don't have to meet all of >the growing demand for healthy food. We do have to stay in business. Since >diversity works so well in my fields why not apply those same principles to >my direct farm sales? Many of the people who buy our herbal products can't >appreciate the value of our fresh organic produce. Yet they support our farm >even more then the tried and true CSA subscribers. > I believe as more small farmers begin to diversify the products they >sell that more people will begin to value small farmers. In the place where >I grew up the accepted prejudice of farmers was, "Those stupid people who >can't get jobs doing anything else." Prejudices are always misinforming and >so ingrained that we need as many avenues as possible to chip away at the >walls they create. > I guess the purpose of this response is to get growers to start >thinking outside of the grocery box. Make our farms viable businesses and >society will begin to value and seek out our presence. Maybe then the county >will allow me an agricultural easement for my property. > >Art Biggert >Ocean Sky Farm > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Aug 27 09:33:11 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06698 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA01420; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:14:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01258 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:13:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mystic.excite.com ([199.172.152.98]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990827131229.VKMI296.kuku@mystic.excite.com> for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:12:29 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Split operations and risk taking Message-Id: <935759549.4967.930@excite.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:12:29 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.217 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 552 We run a split operation which the CSA makes up about 1/10th of farm revenues this year. This means that the CSA is not even coming close to payiny our bills so we do farmer's markets, sell to a resturant and a couple of health food stores. The CSA this year has been there for community - we have a great group this year that likes to come out to the farm and help us weed and pick but they are a very small group of 3 active members and 2 "silent" members. So how do we share the bounty? we make up about 12 to 20lbs of food a week for the members plus anyone who works can take home additional food (rarely happens this time of year but lots of takers in the spring when the boxes are very light). Right now boxes weigh in at 20lbs due to tomatoes and melons but on average they are about 9lbs with 9 to 11 items each week. We try not to overwhelm the members with too much food and I don't think we have (I'll know more when the surveys sent out this week come back) but this was a problem last year. We have on farm pick-up each week but do deliver to a few members who have special circumstances (one is a doctor that is trading a surgery for food and my Husband neglected to explain anything about the CSA when he set this up, such as the requirement of coming to the farm for pick-up each week, so the guy just expects a box of food each week until who knows when) and we have one member who likes to pay us up front and than graze at the farmer's market until she runs out of credit, than she cuts us another check to continue (she hates the constraints of the CSA, having to pick-up at a certain time/place, coming to potlucks etc). As far as risk goes, we tell members up front that they are sharing our risk and if there is a massive failure, not due to our fault, they do not get a refund. I feel the risk sharing is a big part of the CSA philosophy. Folks need to know that food is not necessarily a given, in reality. They need to know there are things such as crop failures and not everything grows year round-that asparagus is not a mid summer food, for example. This risk taking is, in a way, part of consumer education on our part. I have been wondering how a farm could possibly refund its' members if there was a big crop failure-if the crops failed where is the money coming from to refund? As I see it the money up front is to be used for the upcoming season, not put into an escrow fund "just in case". If it goes to the escrow fund what is the point in obtaing the funds up front? The same thing with buying produce to supplement a box, which several people mention they do. From what I learned about this one never promises anything-a season lasts "about"...; The box "may" contain... etc.. So if the strawberries don't come in the members don't get them, period. Give them more of what ever is in big supply but don't go out and spend money supplementing, makes no financial sense to me. Especially if you are looking at massive crop failures. Farming is probably the riskiest occupation one can have (I think it is riskier than gambling) and I for one feel that the consumer should shoulder some of the risk along with the farmer in the CSA model. Especially since there are no gov't programs for us organic/small farm/CSA types-instead of tax money going for farms the member gets to directly help a farm. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Aug 27 11:59:18 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09835 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16027; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:44:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f97.hotmail.com [209.185.131.160]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA15892 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:43:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 61277 invoked by uid 0); 27 Aug 1999 15:42:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19990827154257.61276.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.121.26.5 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:42:56 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.121.26.5] From: "Kenneth Barnes" To: brike1@juno.com, guldann@ix.netcom.com Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Organic Tomatoes by the Bushel Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:42:56 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 553 I have enjoyed hearing the different ideas shared on this topic. My CSA is in its first season, and I have 8 families "subscribed" to receive vegetables, herbs and flowers. I offer the flowers on a PYO basis only. These 8 subscribers in no way support the entire operation. Each family made a 50 percent down payment before the season began, and have made two equal payments to pay off the balance. They all understood that there would be some risk involved in this type of commitment, and were willing to share in that risk for a weekly supply of fresh produce. I might add that I have been able to meet this obligation with success thus far, with only a few more weeks to go until our season is over. The vegetables are divided evenly among the families, unless there is an over abundance of something. I agree with others who stated that folks don't need huge quantities of say tomatoes or squash. Most of my customers are looking for fresh vegetables to eat, not preserve. However, I do inform them when we have quantities available for preserving. There again, this is on a PYO basis. I sometimes use the excess vegetables to give to prospective customers. I see this as a means of free advertising. Also, we have a vegetable sharing mission project at our church each Sunday where people can donate their extras. In turn, those that don't have a fresh source of vegetables can take what they want and leave a cash donation, which helps fund some of these projects. There are probably as many different definitions for CSA as there are farmers offering CSA's. I feel that what works best for the individual is what makes this type of operation a success. I believe that we all are working towards a common goal. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Aug 28 00:20:40 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18062 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA18915; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:05:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from premier1.premier1.net (root@premier1.premier1.net [206.40.134.38]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18821 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:04:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from premier1 (red-1-131.premier1.net [207.149.54.131]) by premier1.premier1.net (8.8.6/8.7) with SMTP id VAA27894 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908280401.VAA27894@premier1.premier1.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: mjb@premier1.net To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:06:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: re-chickens X-Confirm-Reading-To: mjb@mail.premier1.net X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 554 Teresa: Coccidiosis is generally in very young chickens, between 2-6weeks in age. It doesn't really matter what the disease is since most diseases are treated similiarly. If not worried about organic certification I would treat with an anti-biotic if the sulfur does not work. Don't use the eggs for a while. We are certified organic so can't use anything with our birds, but I am of the firm belief that anti-biotics can be a good thing ( as with humans if nothing else works) and if it means the choice between life and death, lifeis the better choice. They aren't a good thing to use on a regular basis for all the known reasons. Put your water dish on a frame that has a screen over it so that your water container is not sitting directly in spilled water that the chickens will contaminate. Another good thing to do is to place the frame on sand. Bacteria can not grow in sand. Diseases are usually transmitted in water that has been contaminated with bacteria laden feces. I would not feed on the ground until all signs of the disease are gone. Also isolate any birds that are showing symptoms. As for our roosting system: we have 300-400 layers at any given time and they have a roosting pit. I never do anything to that manure unless it is to scoop out some to go into the compost. This creates natural heat which is wonderful especially for the winter. Not putting any litter on it discourages the chickens from scratchin in it. It also becomes very hard and is not an attractive alternative especially when there are so many other options. I use what is called the deep litter method. That is I scatter litter (for me that's hay)_ over the rest of the coop every once in a while. Depennds on the season as to how frequent. I use my nose as a guide. A well maintained chicken coop should have no flies and no odor. Summer has come and gone (almost) and i am just beginning to think I should add a layer. The last layer was appplied in March. The chickens scratch and peck at seeds in the hay and naturally aereate. The composting creates a natural anti-biotic that helps keep the chickens healthy, and also many of the bacterias that are bad for the chickens can not grow in that environment. If you do not have a pit for the manure to fall into, I would clean it out once or twice a week and scatter hay over the reat of the coopfloor. Or you could stir it around and incorporate it into the litter. If you're not using a deep litter method I would strongly reccomend it. It's not only the best thing for the chickens but it is a time saver for me. Maybe once a year I will clean, but generally it's just a spot clean if an area gets wet for some reason. I'm sorry this is going to the whole group. I lost your reply with your address. I am not very computer literate. Good luck Michaele Blakely Growing Things Carnation WA bacterias From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Aug 28 12:29:40 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27506 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27544; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:14:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27412 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:13:22 -0500 (CDT) From: YAHMEEMA@aol.com Received: from YAHMEEMA@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dMVLa00254 (4313) for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <47edb62d.24f96467@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:12:23 EDT Subject: PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE MAILING LIST To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 555 I have been trying to be removed from this mailing list for months. I don't know how I got on it, but please, please remove me from it, okay? Thank You! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Aug 28 21:41:45 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04964 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:41:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA01013; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:28:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00936 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:27:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908290127.UAA00936@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 42356465; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 01:26:48 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "CSA List" Subject: survey your farm members Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:21:57 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 556 Here in Northern Michigan the leaves are starting to show some fall color and we are starting to think about fall projects (even as our tomato production is at its peak). One fall project is a survey of our members to see how things went from their point of view and what changes might be in order for next year. Many farms do a survey of the membership, whether every year or two or every month or two. It is a good way to learn how things are going. Most of us are not all that good at putting surveys together. That is why we had a two part series in "The Community Farm" last year on the subject. The articles are on the internet; view by clicking on the URL below our "signature" line, scroll to near the bottom of the page that opens and click on "Surveying Community." If you need more help, the author is available via email, linked at the end of the article. There is, of course, no obligation for inquires about his services (which would be billed at his "non-profit organization" rate). If you have not heard of our newsletter yet and would like a sample copy, send us your regular mailing address and we will get the most recent issue in the mail to you. Happy harvests! Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Aug 29 16:48:35 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18088 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA02641; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:34:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02506 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:32:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from brike1@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EJ8EQ6ZZ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:30:03 EDT To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:36:15 -0700 Subject: genetic engineered crops Message-ID: <19990829.133616.-259985.0.brike1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,18-19,24-25,28-35 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: michael j isensee Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 557 In case anyone out there is interested.... Today's (Sunday) Oregonian reprinted an article by Melody Petersen of the New York Times News Service under the headline "Overseas markets turn up noses at high-tech U.S. crops." The article states, in part, "U.S. farmers paid premium prices this spring to sow many of their fields with genetically engineered corn and soybeans, but as the fall harvest nears, more of the international buyers they depend on are saying they do not want those crops." Two of the largest breweries in Japan are refusing to buy GE corn, and Japan is requesting mandatory labeling of all GE products. The largest producer of corn tortillas in Mexico is also refusing to buy GE products (which begs the question of why a Mexican producer of corn tortillas would want to purchase U.S. corn). Grain elevator operators are asking farmers to keep GE crops separate, and our government is working hard to coerce other countries into accepting our GE products. 60 million acres of GE crops were planted in the US this year, nearly half of all the soybeans and a third of all the corn. I see this as beneficial news to the typical CSA as people's awareness of food issues around genetically engineered crops grows. It also might increase the demand for grains (and cornmeal?) within a CSA as people look for products they can be assured of are not genetically engineered. Hope all is well on your farms. We are having a strange humid summer day with rain and cool temperatures (very unusual for August here in Portland). shalom, michael Michael Isensee 900 NW Mawrcrest Dr #203 Gresham OR 97030 503-674-9107 ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Aug 29 23:13:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23658 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA29721; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:59:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29638 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:59:02 -0500 (CDT) From: MNdeadhead@aol.com Received: from MNdeadhead@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dYPVa01827 (4323); Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:58:25 EDT Subject: Re: PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE MAILING LIST To: YAHMEEMA@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 558 SAME HERE! PLEASE REMOVE US!!!! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 30 01:12:15 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24744 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA08862; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:58:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08778 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:57:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.33.104.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.33.104]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA18258; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990829215601.00823db0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:56:01 -0700 To: From: Fred Chambers Subject: SoCalif Farm Manager Position Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 559 Hi CSA friends, The following note refers to a job that is a lot like a CSA farmer on a 20-acre facility of the campus of California State Polytechnic University Pomona. The Center for Regenerative Studies is a high-tech ecovillage, home to a 20 member semi-intentional community, and they could use a farm manager who can provide a year-round harvest for the kitchen. The students living on-site are also the primary labor force. For anyone wanting to run a CSA without some of the hassles, this might be a great opportunity. Includes aquaculture, poultry, sheep, bees, greenhouse/coolhouse, solar driers, solar freezer, and much more. Passing the word, Fred --------------- For Info Write To: armsurf@earthlink.net Cal Poly's Center for Regenerative Studies http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~crs/ is seeking qualified candidates for the position of Land Technician. Candidates should have practical hands-on skills in operating a food system based on regenerative practices. CV's may be send to the Office of the Director (909) 869-5188. Paul Sommers Outreach Coordinator === Paul Sommers armsurf@earthlink.net 760-944-8551 __________________________________________________ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 31 14:18:56 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27482 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA23824; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:04:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from server1.accel.net (accel.net [207.164.195.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23422 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:01:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from server ([207.164.195.133]) by server1.accel.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-51461U3500L350S0) with SMTP id AAA418 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:01:38 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01bef3dd$10c1a240$85c3a4cf@server.accel.net> From: bhfarm@accel.net (Robert Ripley) To: Subject: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:16:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 560 thank you From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 31 16:14:45 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01767 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA09284; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:00:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from aw162.netaddress.usa.net (aw162.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.62]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09117 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:59:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 24442 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Aug 1999 19:59:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990831195934.24441.qmail@aw162.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.62 by aw162 via web-mailer(M3.2.0.53) on Tue Aug 31 19:59:34 GMT 1999 Date: 31 Aug 99 12:59:34 PDT From: SARNA SALZMAN To: Subject: please remove me from the list X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.53) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id OAA09118 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 561 thank you ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Aug 31 16:30:33 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02057 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA12133; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:16:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.oceangroup.com (prawn.oceangroup.com [208.242.218.50]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA12014 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:16:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 23727 invoked from network); 31 Aug 1999 20:18:23 -0000 Received: from shark.oceangroup.com (HELO shark) (208.242.218.10) by mail.oceangroup.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 1999 20:18:23 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990831131225.00a5fc10@mail.cruzio.com> X-Sender: erinb@mail.cruzio.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:14:45 -0700 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Erin Barnett Subject: new CSA website Cc: harlan@oceangroup.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 562 Hello all. I work with a small but growing internet company whose founders are very interested in using their skills to help spread the word about sustainable agriculture, particularly CSA. We have an idea for a website that would offer consumers a way to search for local sources of organic produce that is direct marketed through CSAs, farmers markets, or u-pick farms. We have already talked to a number of farmers on the central coast of California, and they are quite enthusiastic about the idea, but before we go further into developing the site we'd like to hear from other quarters about whether this seems like a useful thing in helping to get members. We are looking for outside sources of funding so that there would be no fees associated with being listed on the site or with using it. We plan to jumpstart the content end of the site by entering basic data for all the CSAs etc. we know about (gathered and consolidated from existing resources) and then give all the listed farms easy instructions on how to update their data themselves. The site will also give consumers looking for local organic food a way to post messages expressing their interest, which we think could be especially useful in areas of the country where organic produce is hard to come by, but where farmers might be convinced to diversify their operations or try their hand at organic production if they knew there was a market. Thoughts? Erin Barnett Ocean Group, Santa Cruz, CA (831) 466-0700 erinb@oceangroup.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 1 23:12:46 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16332 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA21173; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:06:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20948 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:04:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from flash.excite.com ([199.172.152.79]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990902030403.RVAC2517.gigi@flash.excite.com> for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:04:03 -0700 From: "Teresa%2B Kohut" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Staking Tomatoes Message-Id: <936241441.11094.466@excite.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 20:04:01 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.115.48.69 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 563 I was wondering, while picking boxes and boxes of tomatoes, if thee was a better way to support my tomatoes, and be easier to pick them. We now have a trellis support sysytem, that is barbless wire run between t-posts and twine that comes down off that wire to loop arond the tomato plants. This has worked o.k. the plants we were able to keep ahead of. But if anyone has a way that works for them, I'd love to hear about it. Right now, we have 3, 120'rows of tomatoes. Teresa Kohut Spirit Gardens CSA Jacksonville, OR ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 2 14:48:30 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00123 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01502; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:39:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f11.hotmail.com [209.185.131.74]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01105 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:37:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 79000 invoked by uid 0); 2 Sep 1999 18:17:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19990902181756.78999.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.121.26.5 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:17:55 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.121.26.5] From: "Kenneth Barnes" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: hairy vetch seed Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 14:17:55 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 564 I am looking for a nearby source for hairy vetch seeds to plant as a cover crop. I am located near Raleigh, NC. Thanks in advance for your help. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Sep 3 21:18:33 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14935 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA27918; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:16:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from post1.fast.net (post1.fast.net [198.69.204.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27414 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:10:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gregbowm (maxtnt09-abe-66.fast.net [209.92.14.66]) by post1.fast.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA19573; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37CF2C57.1278@fast.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:03:03 -0400 From: Greg Bowman Reply-To: gbowman@fast.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org CC: theshepherdsfarm@hotmail.com Subject: Re: hairy vetch seed References: <19990902181756.78999.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 565 Kenneth, Try checking the Sustianable Farming Connections cover crop page. GREAT list of seed sources at http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/links/ccfseeds.htm SARE's Managing Cover Crops Profitably, Second Edition (information at http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/resources/index.html#Profitably and http://www.sare.org/san/mccp2/) lists some eastern sources. Ask for Nebraska origin seed [cv. Madison] if hardiness if important. The West Coast seed tends to be less hardy. Sometimes you have no choice. --Budd Seed, 191 Budd Bld., Winston Salem NC 27103, 910.760.9060 --Ernset Conservation Seeds, RD 5 Box 806, Meadville PA 16335, 814.336.2404 --Tennessee Farmers Coop, P.O. Box 3003, LaVergne TN 37086 615.793.8506 --Southern States Cooperative, 2600 Durham St., Richmond VA 23220 800.868.6273 Check for nearest store, and if they handle HV this year. The more farmer requests that seed retailers/suppliers have, the more seed they will carry. If they don't have it this year, ask them to get it for next year--then follow-up and ask them again. Best wishes. Don't forget a pea/vetch strain of inoculant. Greg Kenneth Barnes wrote: > I am looking for a nearby source for hairy vetch seeds to plant as a cover > crop. I am located near Raleigh, NC. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Greg Bowman 504 Main St. , P.O. Box 490 Bally PA 19503 610.845.2436 Communicating for whole farms...for whole communities...for the whole world. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Sep 4 11:55:38 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09603 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA14188; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:53:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (mail.pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12948 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:34:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.182] [198.69.131.182] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id AD69D6D008E; Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:40:25 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:34:13 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: seed garlic Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 566 We're expanding our garlic crop next year. Do people have good sources for great garlic? From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 6 00:59:08 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05614 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA27083; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:53:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from islander.whidbey.net (root@islander.whidbey.net [204.57.140.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26782 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:47:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (asn196.whidbey.net [204.57.140.85]) by islander.whidbey.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA05292 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000001bef822$4844d680$558c39cc@default> Reply-To: "Michael & Jeannie Glass" From: "Michael & Jeannie Glass" To: "CSA List" Subject: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:41:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF7E7.713D4760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 567 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF7E7.713D4760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am working on a MA degree in Organizational Leadership/Development and = for my thesis, I am looking into how a CSA farm might serve as a model = building a sustainable community/family culture. I would greatly = appreciate any stories on how your farm(s) have served as such a model. = I am also looking for a farm or two to use as a case study; any = volunteers? Thank you, Michael Glass ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF7E7.713D4760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I am working on a MA degree in = Organizational=20 Leadership/Development and for my thesis, I am looking into how a CSA = farm might=20 serve as a model building a sustainable community/family culture.  = I would=20 greatly appreciate any stories on how your farm(s) have served as such a = model.  I am also looking for a farm or two to use as a case study; = any=20 volunteers?
     
    Thank you,
    Michael = Glass
    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF7E7.713D4760-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 6 15:12:35 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29988 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14977; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:05:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.59.113]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14737 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:02:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pavilion (MINNB210-36.splitrock.net [209.156.245.151]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA722274 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:02:00 -0400 Message-ID: <000901bef89b$153a1560$97f59cd1@pavilion> From: "Nicholas A Westcott" To: Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:07:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF871.1EAB7AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 568 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF871.1EAB7AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a college student working on an analysis of CSAs and would like to = ask several questions of you. I would welcome any demographic = information you are willing to supply about your members. Are they = mostly single, couples, or families (how many children)? What are there = income and educational levels? Any other information that would be = useful, is very much appreciated. =20 What is your return membership percentage? What are the reasons for = their leaving? Does your CSA do membership surveys, how regularly? If agreeable, I will be asking other questions in the future. I realize that your time is precious, and again want to thank you for = your input. Nick Westcott=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF871.1EAB7AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I am a college student working on an = analysis of=20 CSAs and would like to ask several questions of you.  I would = welcome any=20 demographic information you are willing to supply about your = members.  Are=20 they mostly single, couples, or families (how many children)?  What = are=20 there income and educational levels? Any other information that would be = useful,=20 is very much appreciated. 
    What is your return membership percentage?  = What are the=20 reasons for their leaving?
    Does your CSA do membership surveys, how=20 regularly?
     
    If agreeable, = I will be=20 asking other questions in the future.
    I realize that your time is precious, and again want = to thank=20 you for your input.
     
    Nick Westcott 
    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF871.1EAB7AA0-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 6 16:11:12 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00727 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA19082; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:08:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA18992 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:07:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 27941 invoked from network); 6 Sep 1999 20:07:40 -0000 Received: from i48-40-04.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.62.132) (216.26.62.132) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 1999 20:07:40 -0000 Message-ID: <37D41B0C.76E4@teleport.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 12:50:37 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Teresa%2B Kohut" CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Staking Tomatoes References: <936241441.11094.466@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 569 Teresa, We set a t-post every 8 feet and weave paired lines of bailing twine around the plants between the posts - one line from the post around the left of the first plant, right of the second, left of the third, etc., the other just the opposite. As the plants get taller we add 2 more lines of twine, and so on. One person can add a set of lines easily, two can do it in almost no time. With lusher bushes you might want to set the posts closer together. Using biodegradable bailing twine means that at the end of the season you can cut the twine off the posts, pull up the plants, and compost the whole thing. Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriclulture Land Trust North Willamette Valley, Oregon From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 6 21:35:01 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04780 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA10418; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:32:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10182 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:30:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.207.69.77] (dialup012.serv.net [207.207.69.77]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA20353 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909070130.SAA20353@mx.serv.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 18:44:06 -0700 Subject: Re: seed garlic From: "Adam Gottschalk" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 570 Filaree Farm specializes in garlic alone. Many varieties from all groups. Excellent "technical" information. Placed a largish order once and quality was excellent. Filaree Farm 182 Conconully Hwy, Okanogan, WA, 98440 (509) 422-6940 Good luck Adam ---------- >From: Leigh Hauter >To: CSA list >Subject: seed garlic >Date: Sat, Sep 4, 1999, 08:34 > >We're expanding our garlic crop next year. Do people have good sources for >great garlic? > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 8 02:13:46 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24060 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA19657; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 01:10:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from casco.net (IDENT:F0qwUH89KdW8M1SM6VcxI1f9e+gpx8nY@clark.pioneer.net [204.119.56.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16943 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:26:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ip55-cu1.philomath.pioneer.net([204.119.56.55]) (2210 bytes) by casco.net via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:25:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.105 1999-Mar-3 #1 built 1999-Mar-12) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Hartwig" To: Leigh Hauter Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:46:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Seed Garlic CC: Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 571 Dear Leigh, Sorry it took so long to get back to you regarding garlic costs. I have been buried in canning jars and pears all weekend. Thankfully I finished today. We have been selling through several local grocery stores as well as the farmer's markets, so for out of state sales, I needed to check with Oregon Department of Agriculture regarding regulations. They said there were none on this end, but should check with Virginia's Department of Agriculture. I didn't do that yet. The prics do not include shipping, but the price breakdown for seed cloves that have been sorted and sized into the following sizes is this: Small cloves only (16-18 cloves per pound) 50 lbs and up 1.90 per pound 10-49 lbs 2.35 per pound less than 10 lbs. 5.00 per pound Medium cloves only (10-12 cloves per pound) 50 lbs and up 2.25 per lb 10-49 lbs 3.00 per lb. less than 10 lbs 5.00 per lb. Large cloves only (6-7 cloves per pound) 50 lbs and up 2.50 per lb 10-49 lbs 3.00 per lb less than 10 lbs 5.50 per lb. Mixed cloves (equal amounts of all sizes) 50 lbs and up 2.15 per lb 10-49 lbs. 2.65 per lb less than 10 lbs. 5.00 per lb. The elephant garlic that we grow has taken the "Best of class" award at our county fair for the past several years. We didn't try the state fair because of distance, but many of our heads were over 1 lb. This seed is not organic seed, however. We added manure and lime to the soil, but at planting time we soak the seed in a fungicide solution to control the possibility of disease. If you are still interested, I will check with your Dept of Ag when I hear from you. Thank you, Linda Hartwig (and for Mike) Blodgett OR From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 8 11:51:02 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18140 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29282; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:46:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from svr-sun.ktg.gau.hu (svr-sun.ktg.gau.hu [193.225.204.92]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28874 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:42:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nt.ktg.gau.hu (nt.ktg.gau.hu [193.225.204.93]) by svr-sun.ktg.gau.hu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA22611 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:33:02 -0100 (GMT) Received: from cdr (193.225.204.78) by nt.ktg.gau.hu (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id ; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:44:51 +0200 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:44:51 +0200 Message-ID: X-Sender: matthew@nt.ktg.gau.hu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Matthew Hayes Subject: promoting CSA in South Central and Eastern Europe Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 572 Dear list members/CSA farmers We are a CSA group in our second season here in Hungary. We are also just embarking on a project to promote CSA methods in the South Central and Eastern European region, concentrating first on Hungary and Romania. This project (running from Sept 1999 to Aug 2000) will include a series of workshops on the CSA theme, and putting together a "Promoting CSA toolkit" for farmers and potentials consumer groups interested in starting up groups, as well as some activities to improve our own garden/scheme. The toolkit will include a farmers' manual and some sample material, with ideas for newsletters, posters, recipes, etc. It would be very useful for us to collect any sample copies of newsletters, introductory leaflets, posters or any other information which farmers/groups have put together for their own schemes. We would be very grateful to anybody who could send any information of this kind to us (Jim and Jo at the Community Farm have already sent us something - thanks to them!), as it would help us to get the right message across, and demonstrate the broad scope of CSA ideas. Please send any material you can to: Nyitott Kert Alapitvany (Open Garden Foundation) 2100 Godollo Iskola u.14. Hungary If you need reimbursement for postage please let us know! Thank you in advance for your help. Greetings Matthew ============================================================================= Matthew Hayes Institute of Environmental and Landscape Management Godollo Agricultural University H-2103 Godollo Pater K.u.1. Hungary Tel: ++36 28-415 383,or 310 131 ext.1058 Fax: ++36 28-415 383 E-mail: Matthew@nt.ktg.gau.hu From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 8 19:59:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27553 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA16791; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:55:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16693 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:55:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from amber.excite.com ([198.3.99.12]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990908235353.VWTK25391.ewey@amber.excite.com>; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:53:53 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org, wool@willard-oh.com, nancyg@rcs.k12.in.us, MikeMcG@RodalePress.com, oeffa@iwaynet.net, jpq@mail.csuchico.edu, abundant@olypen.com, michaelafarm@seidata.com Cc: sandehill@juno.com, amrmeb@ime.net, beierfarm@alltel.net, organut@attcanada.net Subject: GMO effects on organics Message-Id: <936834831.27861.345@excite.com> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:53:51 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.239 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 573 ================================ Date Posted: 09/07/1999 Posted by: craffensperger@compuserve.com ================================ I would like to describe the impact of genetic engineering on our 3400 acre organic farm. It would be helpful if these sorts of observations could be confirmed (or not) by research. There are three main changes that we have seen in North Dakota. 1) We can no longer plant crops that are insect or wind pollinated which are known to be genetically modified. Accordingly, we did not plant canola this year. Canola had been a good crop in our rotation. This limits the diversity of foodstuffs both on farm and in the market place. How many farmers are changing their rotations because we can't "fence in" GMOs and keep them off our land? 2) Different pesticides are being used with GMOs which cause alarming damage across the landscape. Because of weather changes, SE North Dakota is now part of the corn and soybean belt. Pesticides used with "Liberty" Corn cause root systems to grow up instead of down. This, apparently, makes plants grow topsy turvy - the crown ends up pointing down to the earth. Other pesticides, particularly herbicides, are rejuvenated in rain. Because we live in the windiest state in the Union, the damage is ubiquitous. Of course, GMOs are not the only "cause" of new herbicides. However, they are part of the industrialized approach to agriculture which promotes chemicals which are antithetical to life. 3) The timing of herbicide spraying has changed. Farmers now spray for the entire season instead of just in the spring. While GMOs are just one of several factors instigating season-long spraying, they are a significant factor. This means that both plants and humans are exposed to pesticides from April through September. I find it ironic that I am expected to feed the world but can't expect to feed my own family because of herbicide damage to orchards, vineyards, gardens and farms. An unscientific survey among organic farmers in the upper midwest indicates that herbicide damage has increased on our land over the past 3 years. Some of you may know that research has shown that babies conceived in the spring in rural Minnesota (just next door to North Dakota) have a higher rate of birth defects. Does this mean that we need to issue warnings that we should not conceive for the six months of April-Sept. because of the risk of birth defects? Damage resulting from GMOs is not hypothetical. One of the other longest standing organic farmers in North Dakota is now asking if he will be able to continue farming and gardening, not because of the economic crisis but because the chemical damage on his farm and garden is so serious. He raises all the food for the 3 generations of family on his farm. He raises seed for garden supply companies. And he raises small grains. Unfortunately, if we want organic farming to continue, we will need to intervene ... and soon. Carolyn Raffensperger Kirschenmann Family Farms. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 9 13:29:19 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06189 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03295; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:24:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03081 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:22:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990909172330.10988.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.202.222.234] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:23:30 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:23:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Fwd: Seed industry, who owns whom? To: CSAlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 574 FYI -- --- Misha wrote: > Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:42:20 -0700 > From: Misha > Subject: Seed industry, who owns whom? > To: SANET-mg > > Howdy, all-- > > Thought some of you might be interested in RAFI's updated chart on > who owns whom in the seed industry. > > http://www.rafi.org/pr/release36a.html > > > peace > misha > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michele Gale-Sinex > Communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison > http://www.wisc.edu > UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 > Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) > Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This is my corn. You people are guests in my corn. > --Ray Kinsella (in /Field of Dreams/) > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 9 14:36:50 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07745 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA10795; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:33:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10680 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:32:45 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dQQYWRhOP_ (3998) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <795dbe20.25095724@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:32:04 EDT Subject: seed giants To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id NAA10681 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 575 I was shocked to read in Sharing the Harvest that M&M Mars Candy, Inc. had purchased Seeds of Change. The RAFI list Seed GiantsWho Owns Whom? confirms the claim. What interest does a giant company like Mars have in a small organic seed company? Does anyone have any insight on this matter? perplexed, Heidi R. Lewis CSOFC From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 9 14:51:38 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08327 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA12285; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:48:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12234 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:48:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (akron-216-196-25-250.raex.com [216.196.25.250]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA15583 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000d01befaf3$71b77d00$fa19c4d8@default> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: Re: seed giants Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:45:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 576 Heidi, That is almost as disturbing as the recent news that Monsanto bought the Solgar vitamin company. What does a chemical giant want with a small organic supplement company? The answer in both cases I think is probably a sweet name to hide behind. A name that inspires trust and that has been trust-worthy in the past. That way, without changing their business practices at all to more healthy ones they can foist their products on an unsuspecting public and continue on in the greed mode with a portion of the demographic pie that would/does avoid their products if labled more honestly/realisticly. That is my opinion anyway, Carol Busson -----Original Message----- From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 2:35 PM Subject: seed giants >I was shocked to read in Sharing the Harvest that M&M Mars Candy, Inc. had >purchased Seeds of Change. The RAFI list Seed GiantsWho Owns Whom? confirms >the claim. What interest does a giant company like Mars have in a small >organic seed company? Does anyone have any insight on this matter? >perplexed, >Heidi R. Lewis >CSOFC > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 9 19:20:18 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13924 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA07409; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:12:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07311 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:12:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sammy.excite.com ([199.172.153.124]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990909231137.VKM2517.gigi@sammy.excite.com> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:11:37 -0700 From: "Teresa%2B Kohut" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: CSA book & soybeans Message-Id: <936918697.8729.962@excite.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:11:37 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.115.63.18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 577 It was posted not too long ago about a book put out by a California Extension Service about starting your own CSA, I lost my note on that and would like to order that book. If anyone can help me I'd appreciate it. Also our first crop of organic soybeans ae in. I was wondering if anyone else out there has or does grow soybeans. We will be selling them at the local farmers market and twice a week to a large natural foods store and hopefully some resturants. We are not certified organic, but we are registered with the state of Oregon. I would like to hear anyone's experience with marketing them. Teresa Kohut Spirit Gardens, Oregon e-mail: tree-bone@excite.com ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 9 19:32:45 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14943 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA09117; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:28:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from atom.ushmm.org (atom.ushmm.org [207.77.113.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09028 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:28:11 -0500 (CDT) From: arwen@kih.net Received: from inetmail.ushmm.org (inetmail.ushmm.org [207.77.113.161]) by atom.ushmm.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA09099; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from POP3 Client by inetmail.ushmm.org (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.10.00) id AA936919395; Thu, 09 Sep 99 19:23:25 -0500 Message-Id: <9909099369.AA936919395@inetmail.ushmm.org> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.10.00 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 99 02:11:27 -0500 To: Cc: Subject: Re: Seed Garlic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 578 Dear Leigh, Sorry it took so long to get back to you regarding garlic costs. I have been buried in canning jars and pears all weekend. Thankfully I finished today. We have been selling through several local grocery stores as well as the farmer's markets, so for out of state sales, I needed to check with Oregon Department of Agriculture regarding regulations. They said there were none on this end, but should check with Virginia's Department of Agriculture. I didn't do that yet. The prics do not include shipping, but the price breakdown for seed cloves that have been sorted and sized into the following sizes is this: Small cloves only (16-18 cloves per pound) 50 lbs and up 1.90 per pound 10-49 lbs 2.35 per pound less than 10 lbs. 5.00 per pound Medium cloves only (10-12 cloves per pound) 50 lbs and up 2.25 per lb 10-49 lbs 3.00 per lb. less than 10 lbs 5.00 per lb. Large cloves only (6-7 cloves per pound) 50 lbs and up 2.50 per lb 10-49 lbs 3.00 per lb less than 10 lbs 5.50 per lb. Mixed cloves (equal amounts of all sizes) 50 lbs and up 2.15 per lb 10-49 lbs. 2.65 per lb less than 10 lbs. 5.00 per lb. The elephant garlic that we grow has taken the "Best of class" award at our county fair for the past several years. We didn't try the state fair because of distance, but many of our heads were over 1 lb. This seed is not organic seed, however. We added manure and lime to the soil, but at planting time we soak the seed in a fungicide solution to control the possibility of disease. If you are still interested, I will check with your Dept of Ag when I hear from you. Thank you, Linda Hartwig (and for Mike) Blodgett OR From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Sep 10 02:03:03 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA20436 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA10319; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:58:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA10227 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:57:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 8056 invoked from network); 10 Sep 1999 05:57:06 -0000 Received: from i48-40-42.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.62.170) (216.26.62.170) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 1999 05:57:06 -0000 Message-ID: <37D89D70.774D@teleport.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:56:03 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA list Subject: Re: seed giants References: <795dbe20.25095724@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 579 Concerning the consolidation of seed company ownership, and corporate ownership in general: Please remember: legally, the overriding legal obligation of for-profit corporations is to maximize returns for their shareholders. Legally, this obligation overrides all other obligations, including the obligation to obey laws which are in conflict with this objective. Time after time corporations have, in court, been shown to willingly and intentionally break laws in order to maximize profits for stockholders. This has been an acceptable defense, even in cases of premeditated murder (e.g. the Dalkon Shield, the Pinto gas tank). Keep in mind that no corporation has ever suffered the equivelent of a jail term or capital punishment for any crime. I.e. no company has ever been forced to stop operating for a period of years equivalent to a jail sentence such as you or I would serve, nor has any corporation been dissolved as you or I might face capital punishment for murder. Occasionally a corporate officer may be charged with a crime, but usually that is a civil, not a criminal charge. And remember, that's not the corporation, that's a person. If you think, "but a corporation isn't a person!" you are in dissagreemnet with the supreme court, who declared corporations have the rights of a person (in deciding that corporations have the right to free speech and could make unlimited political contributions). The rights, but not the responsibilities. Expect corporations to do ANYTHING IT TAKES to make a profit. Is that enough reason for you not to own stocks or bonds? Enough reason to buy from small, locally owned businesses (preferably not incorporated), even if the price is higher? I hope so. Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriclulture Land Trust North Willamette Valley, Oregon (Take a guess - is this one of my hot buttons?) From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Sep 10 10:12:18 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24637 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA08262; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:08:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from baldr.metro.net (smtp1.metro.net [205.217.52.128]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA08112 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:06:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ig120.5.dial.innovation.com (ig120.5.dial.innovation.com [209.249.5.120]) by baldr.metro.net (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.ac0i) with ESMTP id la978495 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:25:32 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990910140424.0390acac@mail.metro.net> X-Sender: ctbowland@mail.metro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:04:24 -0700 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Chris & Tanya Bowland Subject: Re: CSA book & soybeans Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 580 Teresa, I have a borrowed copy of this folder. It is excellent, and even better than I imagined. Call the Placer County Coop Extension office at 916-889-7397 as they printed it. The area code may have changed since printing. Good Luck. At 04:11 PM 9/9/99 PDT, you wrote: > It was posted not too long ago about a book put out by a California >Extension Service about starting your own CSA, I lost my note on that and >would like to order that book. If anyone can help me I'd appreciate it. > >Also our first crop of organic soybeans ae in. I was wondering if anyone >else out there has or does grow soybeans. We will be selling them at the >local farmers market and twice a week to a large natural foods store and >hopefully some resturants. We are not certified organic, but we are >registered with the state of Oregon. I would like to hear anyone's >experience with marketing them. > >Teresa Kohut >Spirit Gardens, Oregon >e-mail: tree-bone@excite.com > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Sep 10 12:56:55 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28322 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA25346; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:53:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25186 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:52:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.142.46.52] (209-142-35-91.stk.jps.net [209.142.35.91]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA29870; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:52:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: fullcircle@mail.jps.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990910140424.0390acac@mail.metro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:57:39 -0800 To: Chris & Tanya Bowland , csa-l@prairienet.org From: Marcie Rosenzweig Subject: Re: CSA book & soybeans Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 581 Teresa, The book is called Making the Connection, Community Supported Agriculture - a Manual for Farmers. Yes, the area code has changed, it's now 530. Cost is $25.00 plus shipping. e-mail to ceplacer@ucdavis.edu for more info. Marcie Rosenzweig, contributing author Making the Connection author Market Farm Forms - Spreadsheet Templates for Planning and Organizing Data on Diversified Market Farms From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Sep 10 14:12:56 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29637 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA02653; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:05:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from frontiernet.net (node9.frontiernet.net [209.130.129.194]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02517 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:04:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from v1cy2-scd (as5300-6-84.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [209.130.139.189]) by frontiernet.net (8.8.8a/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA37556 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:04:17 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:11:01 -0400 Message-ID: <01BEFB96.4FB23DA0.scassdon@frontiernet.net> From: Sarah C Donaldson Reply-To: "scassdon@frontiernet.net" To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM LIST Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:59:36 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 582 Listmaster: I have tried to get off this list for over 2 months. I can't take all this email w/my other responsibilities and this list is eating up any space I have for other things. It would be nicer if you had a web page I could check periodically for discussion topics. Please confirm that you are indeed taking my email off of this list. Patiently, but frustrated, Sarah -----Original Message----- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 13 16:44:45 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28284 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA20506; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:35:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20265 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:33:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dotty.excite.com ([199.172.152.205]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19990913203251.LBF19424.ewey@dotty.excite.com> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:32:51 -0700 From: "Teresa%2B Kohut" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: CSA Trust Fund Message-Id: <937254768.5105.389@excite.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:32:48 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.115.63.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 583 I found this little tid bit on the internet about the Equity Trust Fund, in Voluntown, CT and how there was a fund setup in 1996 for Conservation and to help CSA farmers buy land and finance capital improvements. I called the phone number listed, but it was no longer in service. (203-376-6174). Has anyone heard this funding? I would like to hear more about it. Teresa Kohut Spirit Gardens ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 13 16:49:30 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28466 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21139; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:41:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20393 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:34:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ringo.excite.com ([199.172.152.145]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19990913203400.LFE19424.ewey@ringo.excite.com> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:34:00 -0700 From: "Teresa%2B Kohut" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: CSA Trust Fund Message-Id: <937254840.6398.552@excite.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:34:00 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.115.63.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 584 I found this little tid bit on the internet about the Equity Trust Fund, in Voluntown, CT and how there was a fund setup in 1996 for Conservation and to help CSA farmers buy land and finance capital improvements. I called the phone number listed, but it was no longer in service. (203-376-6174). Has anyone heard this about this funding? I would like to hear more about it. Teresa Kohut Spirit Gardens ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Sep 14 10:31:06 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13587 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10310; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:27:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp5.mindspring.com (smtp5.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10181 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:26:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ms121960 (user-2ive4sh.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.19.145]) by smtp5.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA28093 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001601befebd$493c1160$9113f7a5@ms121960> From: "Sarah Milstein" To: Subject: Re: CSA Trust Fund Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:27:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 585 >I found this little tid bit on the internet about the Equity Trust Fund, in >Voluntown, CT and how there was a fund setup in 1996 for Conservation and to >help CSA farmers buy land and finance capital improvements. I called the >phone number listed, but it was no longer in service. (203-376-6174). Has >anyone heard this funding? I would like to hear more about it. > >Teresa Kohut >Spirit Gardens The Equity Trust is a highly reputable and effective organization that has a program to help CSA farmers and communities resolve their land-tenure issues. They have helped my CSA farm in the past and are working with the farmers and community again as we search for a new piece of land this season. The area code of their phone number has changed; the number with new area code is 860/376.6174. Sarah Milstein Roxbury Farm Member From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Sep 14 21:25:30 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28013 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16059; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:20:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu (smtp@berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.63.17]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15912 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:18:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from seawolf.rs.itd.umich.edu (smtp@seawolf.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.63.88]) by berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.8/4.3-mailhub) with ESMTP id VAA01811 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (oneal@localhost) by seawolf.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.8/5.1-client) with ESMTP id VAA21078 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Precedence: first-class Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:18:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Gideon Porth X-Sender: oneal@seawolf.rs.itd.umich.edu To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: seeking ag. position Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 586 Hello, I'm writing in search of a farming position for the coming season. I am currently employed as an Assistant Grower with a non-profit called The Food Project, a youth development organization that operates a 21-acre mixed vegetable farm outside of Boston, working with both urban and sub-urban youth to grow food for homeless shelters, two farmers markets and a CSA. This is my third full season farming, having spent the last two apprenticing at a 160-member CSA in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I am well experienced with the CSA model and in all aspects of farm management and am seeking a position as a farm manager for the coming season. Please let me know if you have a position available or if you would like a copy of my resume. Thanks! Gideon Porth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Sep 14 21:49:27 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28427 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA18493; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:46:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18430 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:45:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [12.73.98.193] by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990915014514.HECH17922@[12.73.98.193]> for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:45:14 +0000 Message-ID: <002701beff1d$b217ef00$c162490c@ELN/cyberbamm> From: "Laura Bammer, M.A." To: "CSA List" Subject: OSALT Harvest Festival? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:56:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BEFEE2.E6C9C740" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 587 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BEFEE2.E6C9C740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there, this message is actually addressed to Will Newman of OSALT --=20 Are you still planning to have your fall open-farm day this Saturday, = September 18 at OSALT?? =20 I need a confirmation -- I'm planning on coming and inviting CSA friends = down. =20 Thanks in advance, Laura Bammer ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BEFEE2.E6C9C740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi there, this message is actually = addressed to=20 Will Newman of OSALT --

    Are you still planning to have your fall = open-farm day this Saturday, September 18 at OSALT??
     
    I need a confirmation -- I'm planning on coming and inviting CSA friends = down.
     
    Thanks in advance, Laura=20 Bammer
    ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BEFEE2.E6C9C740-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 15 07:03:23 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03797 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA25225; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:59:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25165 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:59:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ELJ6T92R; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:59:16 EDT To: oneal@umich.edu Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:54:16 -0400 Subject: Looking for farm help during October Message-ID: <19990915.065427.-3195495.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,7-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 588 We are looking for a helper for the month of October. Duties would include building raised beds, preparing logs for mushroom plugs, moving things into place, working with goats, etc. We also need a barn built. It is partially up already. Can provide room and board and small stipend per week. No drugs, alcohol or bad attitudes. We live near Knoxville, TN. Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 GOaT MILK? http://www.mazdak.com/goats/goatdex.htm Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 15 08:23:25 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04529 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA01037; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:19:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00951 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:19:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sammy.excite.com ([199.172.153.124]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19990915121829.DVTH5916.gigi@sammy.excite.com> for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:18:29 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: How Do You Promote Your CSA Message-Id: <937397908.8086.984@excite.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:18:28 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.112 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 589 It's time to start thinking about recruitment for next season and I was wondering How everyone promotes their CSA? We have been having problems getting members (had 6 this year and will lose 2 of those to moves). We had a farm tour but unfortunately got no prospective customers to come, just other market gardeners and CSA growers even though I did advertise thru woord of mouth, fliers at all places we sell produuce and eggs and even OEFFA sent a big mailing. Now I am working on a promotional flier for this next season (and finding it is impossible to explain this concept on one or even two pages). I would love to see other farms' fliers if possible. In the past I haven't done much with info meetings -had one the first season but only 4 folks showed and no one of that group joined. last year we had no info meeting. I am finding if we don't get at least 20 members (30 to 40 would be better) next year the CSA will not be finacially viable for us (it accounted for about 10% this year) and we may have to drop it. I don't want to do this as I feel CSA is important to heal our shattered culture. Agriculture is the soul of any culture and we are losing our ag soul fast Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 15 08:33:49 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04652 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA01892; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:30:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01839 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:30:03 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id oAZHERmdh_ (4002); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1b860a02.2510eb29@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:29:29 EDT Subject: Re: How Do You Promote Your CSA To: goodows@excite.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id HAA01840 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 590 Lucy, Our city newspaper has done articles on CSA from time to time (including info. and photos of our farm) which create local interest. We put out promotional material much too late, I'm afraid (usually February.) This year we'll start earlier! I try to display fliers along with a poster at the local community center, library, farm & garden center, downtown shops & "healthy" restaurants, and even at some doctors', massage therapists' or chiropractors' offices. I'd like to read more about other CSA's recruiting methods. Heidi R. Lewis CSOFC Fredericksburg, VA. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 15 10:11:38 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06302 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA12068; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:07:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.thestreet.com (smtp.thestreet.com [208.241.190.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12007 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:07:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jherr ([209.122.224.165]) by smtp.thestreet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58593U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:45:11 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990915100523.00f1311c@mail.thestreet.com> X-Sender: Jherr@mail.thestreet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:05:26 +0000 To: HowdiHeidi@aol.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Jeff Herr Subject: Re: How Do You Promote Your CSA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id JAA12008 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 591 Hello all, This was our first year with a CSA, so we were starting from scratch. In hindsight, it seems like our promotional efforts moved through very discreet phases. In March we contacted several local newspapers (including a press release . . . yikes!). In late April one of the larger weekly papers published a nice front-page feature story about our effort. At the same time, we ran a moderate-sized display ad (4 X 8 inches) in the same paper, starting the day the story ran and then for the next three weeks. The add costs $440 for the four weeks. When people would contact us as a result of the ad, we'd immediately (same day) mail them our brochure and then followed up a week later by phone. This phase accounted for maybe our first 30 shares. Not sure what else to attribute it to, but this initial groundswell lead to a significant word-of-mouth "second wave" of subscribers. We took this to the extreme in one case, offering one gentleman a free share if he actually delivered on his enthusiastic claim that he had at least six or eight neighbors who wanted to join in. He did it. Also, we drop off at a bakery in Seattle. We heavily canvased that neighborhood, dropping our flyers on just about every doorstep within a short walk of the bakery/cafe. This "networking" phase accounted for maybe 20 more. As well, we contacted several local medium-to-large high tech companies. A couple were willing to offer shares to their employees via a company-wide email. We now drop nearly 20 boxes at these offices. And finally, we got really flexible after hitting our goal of 60 shares. Once the 20-week CSA started, we allowed another batch of people--mostly those who saw the boxes at a friends's house--to sign up for a pro-rated 16-week subscription. This took us to our final tally of 90 subscribers. Some relevant details: -- We serve the Seattle metro area -- We really fill our boxes -- Our shares are $485 for 20 weeks -- We write up a detailed newsletter in each box.These get passed around, sowing the seeds for next season. -- We're even giving T-Shirts to our members ($5.40/shirt = good marketing on the backs of our best fans). -- We are aggressive users of contact management software (ACT!) that allows us to keep in close contact with prospects. Roughly half of our members came in after getting a second contact. Like everything else in life, it's follow through that makes the difference. Sorry to go so long. I was really anxious about all of this when we mapped things out last fall and winter. Due to a large dose of good luck, we exceeded our goal. But there were many long days spent worrying. I'm expecting to lose about half of our current members. But at least we now have a base to build on! Good luck everyone. Just a little more to go! Jeff Herr The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA At 08:29 AM 9/15/99 EDT, HowdiHeidi@aol.com wrote: >Lucy, >Our city newspaper has done articles on CSA from time to time (including >info. and photos of our farm) which create local interest. We put out >promotional material much too late, I'm afraid (usually February.) This year >we'll start earlier! I try to display fliers along with a poster at the local >community center, library, farm & garden center, downtown shops & "healthy" >restaurants, and even at some doctors', massage therapists' or chiropractors' >offices. >I'd like to read more about other CSA's recruiting methods. >Heidi R. Lewis >CSOFC >Fredericksburg, VA. > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 15 13:21:27 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10589 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00491; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:16:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.gilanet.com (gilanet.com [207.66.20.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00337 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:15:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.66.34.232] by mail.gilanet.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.ag4n) with ESMTP id xa273075 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:09:57 -0600 Message-ID: <37DFD4F8.C87C405B@gilanet.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:18:57 -0600 From: Stef Fuegi Reply-To: steffo@gilanet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: How Do You Promote Your CSA References: <937397908.8086.984@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 592 We started our CSA last year with about 30 members, and have gone to 60 this year. Most of our members come from word of mouth, and we actively encourage members to advertise for us. Some have taken a bunch of fliers and made announcements at their churches or businesses, and this has been quite effective. We did very limited advertising. We have been featured a couple times in a local monthly free paper. This year, a very effective strategy we used was to go to the first few farmers' markets of the Spring with no food. Our stand has had the most food of any local grower for several years, so when we showed up in the Spring with just starts and seeds, everybody wanted to know why we didn't have any food. We told them we had plenty of food, but it was all going to CSA members, and they were welcome to join. We got about ten members from this I think. Of course, these were last minute subscriptions and we'd already planted enough to provide the shares. When we did this, we set up big posters with photos of the farm and info about CSA for people to read, too. The photos in particular really drew people in, and we had fun with it. Good luck with your marketing efforts! Stef From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 15 16:51:20 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15228 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21510; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:47:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21366 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:46:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from khansen (awi0113.animalwelfare.com [207.96.27.29]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA08671 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:46:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kelly Hansen" To: Subject: New farmer and strawberry plants Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:53:08 -0400 Message-ID: <007201beffbc$50760940$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <37DFD4F8.C87C405B@gilanet.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 593 Hi everyone! I've lurked for the better part of this year, and I am thrilled to now actually have a farm and a CSA plan to post questions about. Thanks to everyone, especially Lucy and Dori, who has posted such useful information on the list. Next year we hope to put in strawberries. Do you think we should do a few long rows as a test plot, or put in a substantial amount of plants, say to supply a 30 member CSA? Also, can anyone recommend particular varieties or a nursery to buy plants from. I have information about Aarons Creek Farm (Virginia) which carries Chandler and Sweet Charlie varieties. Anyone do U-pick? Is this a giant pain in the rear? Our farm in is Northern Virginia--4 miles outside of Purcellville in Loudoun County. Great CSA marketing thread! Thanks again, Kelly Hansen Wishing Rock Vegetables & Flowers From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 16 13:55:16 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04911 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA05779; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:50:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root@mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05542 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:48:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 165.227.129.20 (sa-165-227-129-20.cruzio.com [165.227.129.20]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id KAA21148; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E0CCE1.A4E@mariquita.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:56:32 +0000 From: Julia Wiley Reply-To: csa@mariquita.com Organization: Mariquita Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lucy Goodman-Owsley CC: CSA list Subject: more CSA promotion ideas References: <937397908.8086.984@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 594 Another note on CSA promotion: We have had good success with mailing lists: We keep all addresses of interested people and former members and mail them a flyer (last year it included a letter from the farmer on what 'fresh' really is) once a year. My midwives also gave me their mailing list and that signed some people on too. Some businesses might be willing to trade their mailing list for produce. One other idea is from our neighbor who also has a CSA similar to ours: He does a slide show with a question and answer period in the EARLY spring for parents at preschools. That might be a good way to promote your farm for folks who are just starting out. I'm interested in other peoples ideas as well... Julia -- ______________________________________ Mariquita Farm Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables P. O. Box 2065 Watsonville, CA 95077 (831)761-3226 http://www.mariquita.com e-mail: csa@mariquita.com _______________________________________ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 16 16:21:50 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08368 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:21:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21032; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:13:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20913 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:12:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from claude.excite.com ([199.172.152.181]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19990916201208.CIJE17650.kuku@claude.excite.com>; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:12:08 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: pastpat@thepoint.net, amrmeb@ime.net, lcano000@email.msn.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org, cen32750@centuryinter.net, wool@willard-oh.com, nancyg@rcs.k12.in.us, Organic4um@aol.com Cc: MikeMcG@RodalePress.com, beierfarm@alltel.net, oeffa@iwaynet.net, organut@attcanada.net, jpq@mail.csuchico.edu, YSZX29E@prodigy.com, mranville@hotmail.com Subject: GMO song (LOL) Message-Id: <937512732.9964.115@excite.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:12:12 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.76 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 595 Gleaned this wonderful little 'un from a newsgroup: To the tune of Bob Seger's "Old Time Rock and Roll": Just leave those old hybrids in the bag I want the ones with letters on the tag BT and STS are how I should go I want the Brand New GMO Don't try to breed your beans the old way You need to add some bits of new DNA I want to spray my field and just let it grow Give me the Brand New GMO I want that Brand New GMO Biogenetics gonna soothe my soul 'Cause they weren't Roundup Ready long before I want that Brand New GMO Don't try to get me to cultivate My fields are cleaner than a Mormon date Who needs a plow when you've got Monsanto And all those Brand New GMO's Call me a monarch-killer if you may Say they won't buy in Paris or the UK I'll take a discount of a dime or so To plant the Brand New GMO I want that Brand New GMO, Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 16 19:53:31 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12473 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA11384; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:46:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11277 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:45:48 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dEDKa04664 (4188) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c079cbf.2512db06@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:45:10 EDT Subject: Where has Dori been? To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id SAA11279 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 596 I got this message form Dori which explains why we haven't heard from her much this summer.... Heidi Lewis Fredericksburg, VA Computer took a major lightning hit more than two months ago -- killed the modem that had replaced the previous lightning-damaged modem, and it turns out that warranty replacements have no warranty. Bummer! I have very, very limited time (1-hour blocks) to use the system at the public library, which will close on November 1. The special referendum on Tuesday's election failed. I can't believe it! Staples Office Superstore told me "sure, bring your account up to date with a $180 payment and you can use the account again." I paid the money, they lied. Closed my account. Embarrassing _and_ infuriating! Been out of work since January. Just finishing a one-month temp job at 1/3 of my previous salary (take-home is less than unemployment was paying me). Garden totally destroyed by drought. On Monday I start a new PERMANENT job where the benefits are worth almost as much as the salary, and it's important work -- teaching assistant in remedial writing for high school students whose communication skills are so poor that it's likely they'll fail to pass the state requirements for a simple diploma, much less advance their education. So it's Right Livelihood even though it doesn't pay enough to live on. I just interviewed for a second 35-hour-a-week job helping to start a business incubator for poor and otherwise disadvantaged people in the region who are now operating or want to start a "specialty foods" business. I'll be helping them to network for bulk buying and services, advertising, finding good (organic!) suppliers, etc. Who could be more perfect for the job? And it's mostly nights and weekends, busiest time of year is July-August. Guess what? The other job is 10 months a year and guess what months I'm free????? If they aren't smart enough to grab me on this one I think I'm going to go talk to their board of directors. I'm now up to 11 goats. One has been sick for a couple of days -- I think it was just too many little green apples. She's been constipated and tonight if she hasn't got things moving I'm going to be doing the Fleet enema routine with her. Fun! It's RAINING and I have 1/2 of a bale of hay left. 80 bales were supposed to be delivered on Sunday but the person who said they were going to take a lifetime membership in the community farm at $250 never showed up and the farmer understandably isn't going to part with his precious stuff without cash in hand. So after my 6 PM appointment here in Corning and a stop at the grocery store for the Fleet and Milk of Magnesia for Janice Rand, I'll be spending some time calling a few neighbors to beg for a couple of bales to take me through this Sunday. I got another paycheck and will have the cash. In other words, situation is absolutely normal here at the farm. I can read my dorigreen@exotrope.net mail but can't post to any of my lists from here. I do expect to buy a new modem within a couple of weeks and be back on-line from home. Feel free to post any or all of this info to the list. Still looking for the right partners/housemates, still not giving up on the CSA. In a way I feel vindicated by the library closure -- it ain't all me, this is a really tough area in which to get people to work together or to appreciate the resources they've got. Recognizing this doesn't mean I'm giving up on them -- yet. With the two jobs I might just put the whole 20 acres into cover crops next year -- won't hurt the land or me at all. Dori From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Sep 17 08:33:29 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20518 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA02446; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:30:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02350 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:29:24 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dISZa03913 (4440) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:28:48 EDT Subject: Re: Where has Dori been? To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id HAA02351 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 597 Thanks for the update, Heidi. [But I think you mis-labelled Dori's gender.] John Fletcher Whoops. My apologies to Dori. Heidi From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 20 08:12:05 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12886 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA18711; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:04:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mb05.swip.net (mb05.swip.net [193.12.122.209]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18582 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:03:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [212.151.229.150] (d212-151-229-150.swipnet.se [212.151.229.150]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA21802; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:03:31 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: mg25209@gaia.swip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:04:11 +0200 To: Terry Harris , CSA-List From: hans.von.essen@c.lrf.se (Hans von Essen) Subject: Re: Cyberdevelopment & CSA Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 598 Dear Terry Would be interesting to hear news from you. I work with rural development based on biologically self sufficient agriculture strategies and I work with several different villages in Sweden, including where I live. There are beginnings on several places. I can for example mention two villages in Sweden where all farms are ecological. And recently I heard that even though rural liquidation is going on and farmers are giving up - seven farmers every day - the rural population is growing. Small and middle size towns are very much in crisis and are loosing population that move to the Megalopolis areas, but the population in the rural areas in Sweden is actually growing. Probably the "small" towns are too big for the new development. In Sweden at least these are often dominated by one rather large company while the countryside is all one man companies that network together informally. I think the tide is beginning to turn, but you must look close to see it. However the networks are very different and very difficult to overview. There is work towards real "metod boxes" and samples of development descriptions, but this is all in the beginning. Where do you stand? Do you include agriculture and local food in your conciderations and how? Cyberdevelopment and tourism can be good for the countryside, but it can also be the opposite. How do you keep on the right path? Yours Hans von Essen At 19.28 98-12-15, Terry Harris wrote: >Hello all...I'm new to the list, but only because I just learned of its >existance. I'd like to offer this as an introduction to ICRA. > >FORWARDED RESPONSE TO A MESSAGE on the NE FOOD List titled: "How Long Can >You Dog-Paddle?" > >Many people in the western hemisphere are worried that this fall's warm >temperatures may be evidence of global warming. However, here's another >point of view and an invitation to act. > >Look at the world's weather and you will find that Russia is in a deep >freeze. So maybe the artic jet stream is tilted a little off axis >bringing cold weather to the opposite side of the globe. While I believe >that we need to seriously address the issue of greenhouse gasses, >predictions of a decade of doom, I feel, are alarmist strategies. > >I think I understand why this tactic is used, however, as politicians and >policy leaders think only in terms of their window of leadership (term of >office). Vision is often penalized because the path to that vision is not >an easy one. The results are not immediate but the hardships associated >with these policies are. Furthermore, with less than 15% of congressional >districts being comprised by a majority of rural residents, we in rural >regions are victim of the "politics of suburbia" (Chuck Fluharty - >Director of RuPRI, Rural Policy Research Institute http://www.rupri.org ). > > >What are rural regions going to do? Protest or strategize. Think clearly >and solve the riddle. > >Let's put forward-thinking people on a project to design a strategy for >development that accounts for issues that are critical to us all: >[1] safety of our food supply (alternative food systems and other CSA >strategies, see the work of Bill Heffernan Univ of Missouri) >[2] retained role for the family farmer (some predict that farmers will be >reduced to heavy machine operators on the payroll of - or under contract >to - one of several grain processors left or one of the big five R&D >agrichemical companies http://www.recap.com) >[3] sustainable development strategies (industrial product manufacturing >clusters, etc) >[4] systematic migration of people (rural population trends, see Daryl >Hobbs http://www.oseda.missouri.edu) >[5] penturbian rural development land use planning (websearch on "Jack >Lessinger" or "penturbia") >[6] location independent workers (telecommuting support centers -- rather >than move the people to the jobs, let's move the jobs to the people and >let them live closer to their work station http://www.denverpost.com [Dec >8 "Summit tackles tech worker gap"]) > >I am one of those forward thinking people, and I have been working on a >development stategy that will be used in the information age to complement >the existing industrial development model of planned industrial parks as >sites for recruited companies. I co-founded an organization called ICRA >(Initiative for a Competitive Rural America) which created and is >employing cyberdevelopment strategies. This model has drawn the attention >of rural development policy leaders and has led me to begin the formal >study of this strategy as a doctoral student in Rural Sociology at the >University of Missouri-Columbia. > >I would like to recruit like-minded people who believe that we can change: >[1] the way traditional land use planning is taught (subdivisions, strip >retail, shopping centers, rings around the city) >[2] the policies of development incentives that make the conversion of an >acre of farmland to an acre of industrial land so profitable to tax >supported entities (in Missouri this conversion results in a pre-tax >abatement revenue increase of 2400%) >[3] the mindset of companies in thinking that their knowledge workers have >to be in the office or that all of their employees have to be in the same >town >[4] the thinking of rural community leaders to understand that the >consolidation of the agribiochemical and grain processing industries is >already underway, and that without organized cooperative strategies, the >future may be already beyond their control > >Give me your thoughts. I have rural communities that have already >participated in testing the cyberdevelopment model. I would like to learn >about the efforts of others, and how I might become involved (if I can >help). My intent is to create an economic incentive to pursue the virtue >of organizations associated with NE FOOD, MESA, CSA-L, etc. Your >strategies can be part of a comprehensive and politically marketable >change in the way developers think about the future. > >Thanks for your time in reading this material. > >Terry Harris >Initiative for a Competitive Rural America >1608 SE Long Place >Lee's Summit, MO 64063 > >icra@qni.com >(816)525-8150 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 20 15:12:14 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20992 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA29294; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:07:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ns1.bridgernet.com (ns1.bridgernet.com [216.190.234.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA29204 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:06:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909201906.OAA29204@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 8899 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 19:05:58 -0000 Received: from lo-a-19.bridgernet.com (HELO pbiblogan) (216.190.234.83) by caucusi.bridgernet.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 19:05:58 -0000 X-Sender: jamison@mail.bridgernet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:54:14 -0700 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: jamison@bridgernet.com (Paul, Michelle, Johanna Jamison) Subject: carrot seeds Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 599 Greetings! Has anyone out there collected carrot seed and found a way to strip them of their natural velcro? I had no idea I would run into this, having never collected befor, but I must say I am in awe by this seed dispersal mech. My husky could distridute them, but probably not in the straight rows my operation requires, while my little earthway seeder will have a heck of a time. So.. any suggestions would be helpfull. Thankyou in advance. Michelle at Magpie Produce From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Sep 21 10:28:37 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04867 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:28:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA28234; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:10:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28065 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:09:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool0418.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.163]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA03725 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990921070252.00894610@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:02:52 -0700 To: CSA Networking List From: Fred Chambers Subject: Position Announcement - Job Coach - Casa Colina, So.Calif. In-Reply-To: <199909210700.CAA04140@firefly.prairienet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 600 JOB ANNOUNCEMENT-August 5, 1999 Job Coach Horticultural Therapy and Training Program Casa Colina / Career Development Center http://www.casacolina.org/ Exciting and dynamic position offered in the nations leading Horticultural Therapy and Training Program. Best of what horticulture has to offer in addition to the opportunity to serve a wide range of people with disabilities. Full time (and possible part-time position) available for Job Coach to support and train people with disabilities in diverse horticultural settings: Landscape Maintenance, Nursery Production, Public and Demonstration Gardens, and more. General Description: The position of Job Coach is responsible for directing and training individuals with disabilities at horticulture job sites; to provide intensive task related training on the job. Job Coach attitudes and actions also impact the way client, co-workers, supervisors and employers interact with one another. The Job Coach is utilized in maintaining a professional and supportive work environment for all persons involved. Summary of Duties and Responsibilities: Job Coach will be responsible for leading and training crews of people with a wide range of disabilities, performing evaluation and preparation of work environments, working with rehabilitation staff in assessing and addressing clients work performance and behaviors, communicating with case managers, writing weekly progress notes regarding each individuals goals and participation in program, developing and implementing instruction plans for clients at horticulture work sites, maintaining on-the-job records and other relevant data, following up with employers and customers on client as well as job performance, meeting with and informing Horticulture Program Coordinator and Case Manager on a weekly basis regarding client and program needs, transporting clients to worksites, operating and maintaining passenger vehicles and horticultural equipment, and further duties as assigned by Horticulture Program Coordinator. Summary of Skills, Knowledge and Abilities: Job Coach must possess a desire to work with people with disabilities, be able to communicate effectively with a variety of people, be able to develop and sustain employment opportunities, show tact, maturity, perseverance and organization, demonstrate knowledge of horticulture, nursery skills, and landscaping, acquire and demonstrate knowledge of client rights in the areas of confidentiality, informed consent, intervention procedures and regulations of Title 17 and Title 2, advocate for all workers in creating and maintaining relations in the best interests of the client. Summary of Minimum Qualifications: Job Coach must possess sufficient education, training, and work experience to accomplish the duties and responsibilities of the position; have a valid California Drivers License, with no more than one moving violation in the previous three years, and no convictions for Driving Under the Influence of intoxicants or Reckless Driving during the previous three years; be capable of safely performing functions indigenous to the position, including routine or repeated and extended periods of standing, walking, physical exertion, climbing ladders, reaching, operating in confined or uncomfortable environs, lifting and carrying loads; and using tools and equipment. It is the policy of Casa Colina to provide reasonable accommodation. (Refer to C2-200 Employment Policies and Procedures). Note: Employment is contingent on successfully completing a post offer physical and the ability to present documented evidence of the right to work and remain in the United States. This Description is a Summary Version Only. Please request a full Job Description as well as general information about the Casa Colina Horticultural Therapy and Training Program from Anne Lumsdun, Program Secretary by calling (909) 596-7733 x 2245 or writing to Casa Colina Horticultural Therapy and Training Program 2850 N. Garey Ave., Pomona, CA 91769-6001 FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Walnut Alliance is one of many campus and local groups encouraging Cal Poly to explore environmentally responsible uses of campus green spaces. Visit and post at: http://www.regen.org (BWA, SAFER, Regen site that kick's butt!) http://www.csupomona.edu/~vltenbrink/index.html (Victoria's Black Walnut Page) http://www.rokcircle.com (The Wilderness Forum) From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Sep 21 11:42:11 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06376 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07078; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:33:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06978 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:32:27 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dJLFa25313 (4246) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:31:51 EDT Subject: re: How do you promote your CSA To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 601 Please pass along to the list -- My major promotional work this year is going to be through churches -- especially between Hallowe'en and Thanksgiving. Face to face with small groups who understand the spiritual aspect of gardening has always been my most effective recruitment. If I don't have 30 "garden co-op" members by the end of this year, my CSA will also not be economically sustainable and I'll refund their money and put everything into cover crops next year. I've decided that this is my break-even number to make it remotely worth doing and not just being a time and money drain on me. This year I discovered for sure that operating a four-acre garden with just three members is just about as much work as operating it for 30. It isn't written anywhere that I have to die just because CSA is a good idea. I've split my operation into general memberships ($25/year, individual or family) and co-op memberships (garden, goat herd, poultry flock, nursery and gardening supplies, affordable housing). This way people who don't want goat milk aren't supporting the goat herd, people who don't have their own gardens aren't supporting our licensed nursery operation -- but the people who _do_ receive benefits from those operations are making a contribution toward their sustainability. This too is an experiment. Dori Green Heidi - would you forward this to the list for me, please? Thanks! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Sep 21 11:48:43 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06473 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08472; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:46:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail5.globalserve.net (mail5.globalserve.net [209.90.128.165]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08187 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:44:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from alivewater.net (dialin13.vancouver.globalserve.net [209.47.102.77]) by mail5.globalserve.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17464; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E7B724.522C27A7@alivewater.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:49:42 -0800 From: Mikael Lund Reply-To: info@alivewater.net Organization: Nordic Living Water Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: HowdiHeidi@aol.com CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Seeking new friends and supporters of our work with Water/ Nordic Living Water Systems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 602 I wish to introduce you to my work with revitalizing of Water and my work with neutralizing of geopathic stress. 1) The Original Water Revitalizer. 2) The CETs. One is a Water Revitalizer, which you install in your house or apartment. It transforms the tap Water into what you can call living Water, revitalized Water or simply alive Water. It will make our use of Water less of a burden to the environment. If a whole village was to use the Original Water Revitalizer, it would have a profound effect upon the surrounding eco-systems. See our research pages on the web site. http://www.alivewater.net/pages/Research.html See http://www.alivewater.net The other product is the CETs (Cosmic Energy Transformer) which neutralizes geopathic stress as well as the negative effects of EMF stress creating an atmosphere of harmony. See http://www.alivewater.net/pages/PET.html I am building a global organization, getting these two products out to as many people as possible. See if you are interested in possible including these products in your work. If you know of anyone, who you feel would be interested, please share the information. Thank you for you time and for the good work you have already been doing for the common good of all there is. You are also invited to subscribe to my upcoming newsletter, Subtle News. Just let me know if I may put you on my subscription list. To sum it up: I am looking for people who would be interested in: education, distributing of the products, researchers, people who wish to spread the information to their network of friends, people who have knowledge of similar products, which has proven to be of benefit to people and Nature. If you have a web site I invite you to link to my web site and/or copy some of my information so your readers can read about these issues. If you are a journalist, I invite you to write about these issues and you don't have to write a commercial about my products even though you of course are welcome to do so. It is my hope we will reach a level of understanding of Mother Nature, which will propel us into a new civilization, where our reverence for Nature, the Divine Realms and ourselves will result in a world where peace, love, prosperity and dynamic living will be our way of life. (We will get better and more nutritious food as well) kind regards Mikael Lund Nordic Living Water Systems 3430 West 3rd. Avenue Vancouver, BC, V6R 1L5 Canada Tel: +1(604) 733-2824 Fax: +1(604) 733-1824 Call toll free: 1 888 644 7754 http://www.alivewater.net info@alivewater.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Sep 26 12:18:24 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14034 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA29354; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:12:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bay.csuhayward.edu (bay.csuhayward.edu [134.154.3.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29257 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:11:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from haywire.csuhayward.edu ([134.154.5.50]) by bay.csuhayward.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3C27; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:11:27 -0700 Received: from localhost (jquinter@localhost) by haywire.csuhayward.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24487; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: JOHN QUINTERO To: Michael & Jeannie Glass cc: CSA List Subject: Re: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT In-Reply-To: <000001bef822$4844d680$558c39cc@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 603 I SUGGEST AN INVESTIGATION "FIRST" INTO THE ASSUMPTION UNDERLYING THE NOTION OF "SUSTAINABLE" AND "DEVELOPMENT." THERE IS AN INCREASING WARINESS AFFOOT FOR THESE AMBIGUOUS TERMS--THEY MAY BE SPECIOUS AND DUPLICITOUS AND DOWNRIGHT SINISTER. MY THESIS RAN ALONG THE LINES OF ALTERNATIVES TO THESE CONCEPTS--CONVIVIALISM AND SUBSISTENCE. LOOK FORWARD TO CONVERSE. JQ On Sun, 5 Sep 1999, Michael & Jeannie Glass wrote: > I am working on a MA degree in Organizational Leadership/Development and for my thesis, I am looking into how a CSA farm might serve as a model building a sustainable community/family culture. I would greatly appreciate any stories on how your farm(s) have served as such a model. I am also looking for a farm or two to use as a case study; any volunteers? > > Thank you, > Michael Glass > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Sep 26 12:50:52 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14240 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA01580; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:49:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01532 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:48:49 -0500 (CDT) From: LionKuntz@aol.com Received: from LionKuntz@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id oNZHa12734 (4236); Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5f200f9d.251fa82a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:47:38 EDT Subject: Re: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT To: jquinter@haywire.csuhayward.edu, rmglass@whidbey.net CC: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 604 In a message dated 99-09-26 12:12:07 EDT, jquinter@haywire.csuhayward.edu writes: > On Sun, 5 Sep 1999, Michael & Jeannie Glass wrote: > > > I am working on a MA degree in Organizational Leadership/Development and > for my thesis, I am looking into how a CSA farm might serve as a model > building a sustainable community/family culture. I would greatly appreciate > any stories on how your farm(s) have served as such a model. I am also > looking for a farm or two to use as a case study; any volunteers? > > > > Thank you, > > Michael Glass > > There is website called Intentional Communities, which publishes a book probably in your public library called "Communities Directory". Their website at HTTP://WWW.IC.ORG has several hundred communities you can reach through the internet. Yahoo search engine will pull up a dozen CSA farms, some of which are communities. There is a great resource called INTERGARDEN, whose web URL I have temporarily lost, but it includes Sunsite in the UK as part of their address. Intergarden has links to communities and CSA's. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Sep 26 13:29:37 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14467 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA04236; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:27:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04139 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:26:26 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dITUa10034 (4005) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6da1829b.251fb11e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:25:50 EDT Subject: Re: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 605 OK John, Skepticism without offering a positive alternative or reflection is rather common. I do not know Michael Glass. Yet I am encouraged that he is willing to research this concept that is poorly defined. I have read and reflected on this particular subject for a number of years and do not feel anywhere close to understanding it. Should we reject poorly defined concepts? Or should we look to dicover the universal truths associated with a poorly defined concept? I find great comfort in the fact that the truth remains the truth, regardless of what you or I choose to believe. With that said, I am willing to go out on a limb and share my ideas concerning sustainable agriculture and communities. I hope this will be a fruitfull thread for many. The Truth About Wellness Back in 1888, Florence Nightingale wrote, "In truth, wellness is a condition of choice. A choice as much under our control as any condition in which we have placed ourselves." My partner, Suzy Cook and I are registered nurses who genuinely trust the wisdom of the matriarch of our profession. The choices we make in earning our livelihood, where we live, what we eat and drink, the air we breathe, and the exercise in which we participate all contribute to our sense of wellness. Making a difference The mission statement of Ocean Sky Farm is, "To Observe, Apply, and Teach sustainable urban agriculture." We have chosen to teach by example. It has required a lot of trial and error. Then try again. But we have made slow and methodical progress. When we decided we wanted to provide our family with wholesome naturally grown foods we started gardening. As we learned the symbiotic relationships that abound on this planet, we began to feed our neighbors from the abundance. We supplemented our produce by starting a natural foods dry goods co-operative to nurture our community more completely. And now we offer herbal body care products and soaps grown and processed from our organic farm. Each step has required a shift in perception. We have both let go of our "secure" nursing jobs in order to embrace our healing work. We first had to learn to trust our faith in Spirit to provide the opportunities and support that we would require. Only then, did we discover that we had to release the status quo with both hands in order to be fully open to receiving Grace. Furthermore, we learned to ask for what is needed to carry on. Of course there are financial challenges. But the emotional rewards and satisfaction of bringing balance back into our lives and our community are priceless. We live with three well-adjusted school age children. Their ease and social awareness has earned them acceptance with both peers and teachers alike. What more could parents hope for? Observation The key words in our mission statement are sustainable agriculture. There are no clear definitions for sustainable agriculture or community. It is an abstract concept that we are guided to pursue. We won't know it until we achieve it. But the closer we come to sustainability the more symbiotic the relationships become between the parts and the whole. We try to observe the relationships between seasons, placement, and other living beings for every problem. An example of observation, is our chicken tractor. We noticed as the birds scratched through the litter and found slug eggs that they would chortle as they feasted which would bring other chickens to the area scratching for their own chicken caviar. Soon, we would have neither slugs nor slug eggs in the areas where we let the birds run. So we built portable coops to move around the gardens to organically control a common problem. Precepts of sustainability The three precepts of sustainability in agriculture and community are competition, predation and habitat. All life (and business) is balanced by these three precepts. Like it or not, competition is a fact of life where one life form must compete against another for scarce resources. An example of competition in the garden is planting corn close enough together so it can compete for sun light, water and soil nutrients better than the weeds that have viable seeds on the ground next to it. Mulching around the corn and using drip irrigation at the base of each corn stock gives the corn a great advantage over any weed. Predation refers to who consumes what. Even in the soil there is a hierarchy of life forms starting at the microscopic level, which we can not see, and increases in complexity to the earthworms and moles we can see. Each consumes the other in a dance that creates humus and soil tilth. Soils void of these life forms are compacted, airless and hydrophobic. An example of predation in our community is how development consumes farms. It's the nature of our expanding economy. So some of us must learn to farm on smaller lots and grow more food instead of grass and ornamental plants. As we move toward sustainability on our farm we find that we are consuming selected community wastes such as coffee grounds from espresso stands and grass clippings from landscapers to make compost for food production. Habitat is the third precept that completes the circle of life. Habitat is an object that houses and protects a population from the elements and predators. An example of habitat is when we drill holes in a block of cedar. A very beneficial bee called the Mason Bee fills the holes with eggs and pollen then caps the opening with mud. The bee helps us because she is an excellent early spring pollinator. We also grow flowers on the farm to provide habitat for carnivorous insects that eat our pests like flea beetles and aphids. Teaching sustainability In an effort to teach sustainable urban agriculture we offer subscriptions to our harvest through a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) program. Subscribers pay in advance for the next years produce. They then come by the farm once a week to pick up a bag of organic seasonal fruits and vegetables. Organic free-range eggs are also available. We encourage our subscribers to linger and visit with us, to ask gardening questions and to pick their own berries and culinary herbs at the farm. We also offer a limited number of apprenticeships and internships for people who are serious about becoming urban farmers and are willing to make a significant time commitment toward that goal. Compliance with the cause To awaken to the consequences of our actions we must be willing to change our perceptions, assumptions and behaviors. Drive a little less. Eat locally grown food. Buy local products. Stop exposing ourselves to the brainwashing effects of TV and the media. As a society we participate in the destruction of salmon habitat by purchasing wood products that are logged by clear cutting. Then we drive our motor vehicles over and near salmon streams where rain runoff from the roads choke the streams with petroleum products. We consent to act as guinea pigs by purchasing food containing genetically modified organisms (GMO). There is no public outcry for the labeling of such products in the United States because too many of us are willing to trade our future health status for cheap groceries today. The only label that assures there is no GMO in it is the Organic label. Act now Every action contributes to our level of wellness and our level of illness. Only by changing our perceptions, assumptions and behaviors can we create a sustainable agriculture and community. We are free to choose the life and landscape we want. We can no longer afford to externalize the costs of our consumption to the great mother earth. My partner and I believe that we can exercise our free will in order to bring about a necessary increase in personal awareness. This rise in awareness comes incrementally, in the choices we make during our activities of daily living. If you can't commit to a more sustainable livelihood for yourself, then commit to supporting a neighbor or business that has. Open your mind and heart to the workings of Spirit and surely your perceptions, assumptions and behaviors will evolve. Only one truth informs creation. Free will gives us the choice to participate or not. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm August 22, 1999 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Sep 26 21:08:32 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01375 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA04668; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:03:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.whidbey.com (mail.whidbey.com [204.94.52.241]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04581 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:02:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [204.94.53.28] (b0-53-28.whidbey.com [204.94.53.28]) by mail1.whidbey.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23582 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Petersons Family Subject: Farmer's Markets Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 606 I need information on how farmer's markets in your area are structured. Specifically what fee is charged- is it a flat rate or a percentage of sales? Are farmers charged the same fee as prepared food vendors? How does your management handle the ratio of farmers/brokers/ processed foods/ crafts? Are crafts juried? Is your market strictly organic? If not, how is produce labeled? How is the manager paid? Is there a committee to determine whether vendors are appropriate for your market? I've sold at a local farmer's market for the past 12 years, and watched it grow from 10-15 gardeners with extra stuff to a full-fledged farmer's market with 50 vendors including baked goods and crafts, with local musicians, actors & stilt-walkers providing entertainment too. This market has been sponsored and run by an organization dedicated to sustainable and socially equitable agriculture- Tilth. We've run into rocky times with the recent purchase, by a local benefactor, of the land we have leased for years. Her corporation, while intent on preserving the market, has put out a request for proposals to the entire community, to run the market. I'm a Tilth member and a vendor and have lots of feelings about the market being swept away from Tilth, but I also want to see it thrive - so I've accepted a position on her committee to select the best proposal. I know the community issues fairly well, but I don't have specific info on how other markets are managed. I know there is some friction among vendors over fees, management decisions, traffic flow, signage etc. If any of you can reply, it will help me back up my contribution to the discussion, and I hope result in a good structure for our future market. Currently we each pay 10% of gross sales, to a manager hired by Tilth, who makes almost all the decisions on how the market is run. Most of the fee goes into Tilth bank accounts. (Tilth has been researching purchasing a permanent spot for this market since a year to year lease in a developing area is always risky.) A market committee was disbanded this year, leaving the manager the main decision maker. Paying the correct fee and signage were always an issue with the one broker we had. ( he felt he should only have to pay 10% of his net) Farmers make more than 50% of the gross sales for the market as a whole. We used to insist that crafts be made only from products grown by the vendor(handspun wool, herbal tinctures etc), but that has fallen away in recent years and we have the usual assortment of trinkets now along with some good quality stuff. Two or three of us are certified organic growers, most use organic methods, but some do not. I hope to hear from some of you. The first committee meeting is next Saturday after market. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 27 03:07:02 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07945 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 03:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA28747; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:04:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from saturn.ausaid.gov.au (saturn.ausaid.gov.au [202.6.56.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28661 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:03:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: by saturn.ausaid.gov.au; id RAA07668; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:02:53 +1000 (EST) Received: from degas.ausaid.gov.au(202.6.37.150) by saturn.ausaid.gov.au via smap (V4.2) id xma007618; Mon, 27 Sep 99 17:02:33 +1000 Received: from ccMail by degas.ausaid.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 00131026; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:00:49 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:59:23 +1100 Message-ID: <00131026.005013@ausaid.gov.au> From: Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au (Anton Vikstrom) Subject: urban development To: SCook21809@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 607 Hi list just to let you know my urban agriculture has recieved a shot in the foot. Our household is beeing evicted and our garden having highrise appartments built upon it. all in the name of "development" and a greasy buck. Looks as though im going to spend the spring shovelling soil instead of planting(as i plan to take the yard with me) and will be struggling to feed myself let alone others. Luckily, my prospective CSAers hadnt payed up yet. anyway, its a lesson in land tenure and the transience of landscapes i spose this can be all linked back to the community development thread. However im feeling a bit too worked up and a bit too negative to do so at the moment. on the bright side, theres allways next year. anton *--------------------------------------------------------------------* This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the AusAID Help Desk on +61 (0)2 6206 4666. Or email AusAID_Help!!@ausaid.gov.au This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked for the presence of computer viruses before transmission. *--------------------------------------------------------------------* From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 27 08:00:08 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09963 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA12456; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:57:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12402 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:56:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from slippery.excite.com ([199.172.153.106]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19990927115610.HAAE26736.kuku@slippery.excite.com>; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:56:10 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: "Petersons Family" , CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Farmer's Markets Message-Id: <938433377.18120.924@excite.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:56:17 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.98 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 608 You should post this querie at www.gardenweb.com/forums/market-a good market grower's forum. This question was asked a few weeks ago and there were a few answers. I vend at 2 markets. one has been around 25 years and is fairly well organnized. it is organinized by One person who serves as the market master. he charges $3.00 per space per week. he does not have vendor meetings and i think the low price, no meetings and very little advertising has hurt this market a lot. Our sales were off about 70% this year and it looked like customer count was down at least 50%. This market has a nice mix of bakers, crafts, and both fresh homegrown stuff and resale stuff (even though the rules do state that everything must be grown by the seller) . We are the only certified organic farm at the market and there is one other person who is in transition to organic. During August there are usually 45 to 50 vendors. At the moment there are about 10 vendors on average. I believe this is due to the drought hurting a lot of farms and the fact that sales are way down for everyone. We do another market that has been in exisitence for 3 years and we have been there since it's inception. This market has no leadership other than the 2 to 5 vendors that show up weekly. we are supported by the Oxford Ohio visitor and tourism bureau in that they make sure all the licensing is taken care of (we set up in a public square in the center of town). this market has doine poorly since the beginning until the past month when it has taken off. As we are the sole produce vendors at the moment (we have had others but because of slow sales until recently the rarely come back) this market is 100% organic. We have in theory a 6 produce vendors to every craft vendor but reality is that there is usually one ot at best two produce vendors to 3 or more craft vendors. we do jury the crafts at this market and everything is to be homegrown/handmade and this rule so far has been kept. I will say because it is up to us vendors to jury the crafts we have only top notch stuff at this market unlike our other market where they let all sorts of shlock in Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 27 10:16:34 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11909 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA24444; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:14:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bluestem.prairienet.org (bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24343 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:13:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from webserv.dinonet.it ([194.21.93.83]) by bluestem.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09224 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:13:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lbetti ([194.21.93.91]) by webserv.dinonet.it (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 9-31337L) with ESMTP id AAA218 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:12:50 +0200 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990927155922.00ad2a40@mail.dinonet.it> X-Sender: lbetti@mail.dinonet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:00:50 +0200 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Gabriele Betti Subject: is there a future for on-line grocery sale(fresh aliments..)? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 609 Hi, I'd like to set up an on-line sale of fresh food, vegetarian recipes... Do you think it might work? Thanks, Gabriele From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 27 10:22:00 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11990 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA25017; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:19:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from webserv.dinonet.it ([194.21.93.83]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24354 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:13:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lbetti ([194.21.93.91]) by webserv.dinonet.it (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 9-31337L) with ESMTP id AAA100 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:13:28 +0200 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990927160701.00b1ca30@mail.dinonet.it> X-Sender: lbetti@mail.dinonet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:07:18 +0200 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Gabriele Betti Subject: is there a future for on-line grocery sale(fresh aliments..)? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 610 Hi, I'd like to set up an on-line sale of fresh food, vegetarian recipes... Do you think it might work? Thanks, Gabriele From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 27 15:34:33 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18917 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25514; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:31:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lexington.ioa.net (IDENT:root@lexington.ioa.net [208.131.128.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24995 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:25:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ioa.com (ppp482.arden.dialup.ioa.com [208.133.47.173]) by lexington.ioa.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30055; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:25:05 -0400 Message-ID: <37EFC661.28FC09D1@ioa.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:33:05 -0500 From: Chris Sawyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Petersons Family CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Farmer's Markets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 611 Petersons Family wrote: > I need information on how farmer's markets in your area are structured. > Specifically what fee is charged- is it a flat rate or a percentage of > sales? Are farmers charged the same fee as prepared food vendors? How does > your management handle the ratio of farmers/brokers/ processed foods/ > crafts? Are crafts juried? Is your market strictly organic? If not, how > is produce labeled? How is the manager paid? Is there a committee to > determine whether vendors are appropriate for your market? We here at Jake's Farm are starting a new farmers market in our town. The old one is booming and has no more space, and the town has grown, we feel there is room for another market on the other side of town.....hence we have been one of three vendors who stick it out no matter what. We need vendors to generate traffic, and traffic to get vendors, a real catch 22. We charge vendors $20.00/year....this money is all spent on advertising. The parking lot is donated by a local book distributor, who specializes in garden and natural history books. We have another farm, some potted plant dealers, and some flower people interspersed with the occasional baker or canner. For the most part we want only stuff that is made by the seller, no trinkets, there are plenty of flea markets around for that sort of JUNK.... There are some other markets around neighboring towns, that charge nothing....mainly produce growers selling at all our farmers markets....I think charging 10% is thieving...how could you/....you are not operating a mall....are you furnishing insurance. What is your advertising budget... we sell only on saturdays from 8 to 12....most of our advertising is free classified ads or calendar ads in weekly papers...Word of mouth is the best ad....and is slowly gaining us steady returning customers, but continuity is important, and keeping the same friendly faces...We do not have entertainment (yet) but that seems to work in some markets in Los Angeles I have attended...I am a certified organic farm with 5 acres in production, I price my veggies at the current wholesale price, thereby netting myself an extra 25%, since the co-op where I wholesale keeps 25% for operating expenses, but they are running refrigerated trucks from one end of the state to the other... The best place for a market is free space. I would think in any town, one could find a business with adequate parking that would let a market use their lot, in hopes of attracting more business for their own store, and not rob the farmers of what little profit they might manage to earn....Most famers market customers around here are penny pinchers, looking for the best deal, not necessarily the best food.....a shame I know, but that is how it is.... Chris Sawyer, Jake's Farm Asheville North Carolina, Western part of the state, in the Smoky Mountains.... From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 27 16:31:18 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20344 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA00846; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:25:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ra.raex.com (ns2.raex.com [216.196.16.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00750 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:24:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default (akron-216-196-25-122.raex.com [216.196.25.122]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA07802 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901bf0925$e0493fc0$7a19c4d8@default> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: farmers markets Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:20:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 612 Here in Northeastern Ohio there are a few markets near us. The one we go to costs $75 per season. Or a person can pay $7 for a single day. The money is spent on advertisment and insurance. The space is donated by a local restaurant. Starts the 1st of June and ends the last weekend in October, Saturdays 9a to 1pm. We try to get a local musical group, or some sort of entertainment each week as it draws more people. No crafts are allowed. Everything has to be a product of the farm, produce, flowers, maple syrup, seedlings, perennial plants. There is a local pub owner/baker who brings bread and cookies and biscotti. Even wool would be allowed, but no craft items. When we get together to talk about it most feel it is important that it be an outlet for farmers and not take on the atmosphere of a craft fair, or worse still, a flea market. Because in those venues fresh quality produce takes a back seat and people begin looking for bargins rather than good farm produce. Another near by market costs only $10 per season but is not independent and is run by the city it is in. There too there are no crafts or items other than farm produce. At another market near here they don't even allow flowers as farm products. Vegetables only. This predjudice against items not grown on the farm may be because there is a famous flea market/farmers market quite near by that operates on Mondays and it is a place where a lot of VERY low quality produce is unloaded from the local wholesale docks. It has hundreds of vendors and a name for cheap stuff. The market we vend at is still in the 10 - 20 vendor stage, the market manager is a volunteer and we have 2 - 4 meetings per year where all the vendors are invited and it is fairly democratic. The market manager is truly a prince of a fellow. He has been supporting the market by seeking out insurance, unbrellas, making signage, you name it, for 7 years almost singlehandedly. He really believes in the farm market idea and wants to see it take off in this area. The space is donated by a local restaurant. I am actually the only vendor who is certified organic. For the most part the customers are pretty disinterested in organics. Carol Busson Dragonfly Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Sep 27 19:16:11 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24148 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA16924; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:16:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16816 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:15:19 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id uWRHa21483 (4229); Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:14:38 EDT Subject: Re: urban development To: Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 613 Anton, I regret that the insatiable monster called development is devouring your farm and CSA. There is great honor in being evicted, rather than selling out. Your good works will bare fruit. I pray that you will find a stronger community that values your efforts enough to secure an open space for you to continue. Perhaps you are bring uprooted so you can have a greater impact on more people at a yet undisclosed venue. Look for those opportunities. Good luck, and keep the list informed of your progress. Best regards, Art From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Sep 28 11:56:35 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08310 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29679; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:56:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29569 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:55:21 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dEPO0zx7gD (4189) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:54:45 EDT Subject: grain To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id KAA29570 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 614 Dear CSA-list members, I spent most of yesterday trying to track down seed sources for spelt. After talking to my local Cooperative Extension agent, the folks at VA Seedsman Assoc. and, finally, the Ohio Crop Improvement center, I found a company called French's in Wakeman , Ohio. They carry 3 varieties of spelt that contain no wheat plasm and are available untreated for organic production. Their web address is: http://www.accnorwalk.com/~frenchs/ I hope this information can be useful to any of you (and save you a lot of time searching by phone/computer) who have been inspired, by recent discussions, to produce grain on a small scale for your CSA members.... Heidi R. Lewis Community Supported Organic Farm Coalition Fredericksburg, VA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Sep 28 16:24:50 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14518 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA24711; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:24:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24360 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:20:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14411 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA26493 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:20:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:20:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Good Earth CSA, Westboro, Mass. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 615 A friend told me he is a member of this CSA. Has anyone heard of it; does anyone know the URL for their website? Tnx, LL Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Sep 28 19:13:28 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18473 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA10716; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:10:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from server1.mich.com (IDENT:root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10626 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:10:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mich.com (pm346-02.dialip.mich.net [207.75.137.43]) by server1.mich.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03090 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:55:02 -0400 Message-ID: <37F14B0C.432863F4@mich.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:11:08 -0400 From: Mark X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Farm Labor Sources Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 616 General Mail, We have found that as we are in the process of obtaining our "non-profit" status, we requested to be added to the Community Services list that is maintained by our local court system. Now, the people who commit a little social boo-boo in our area and need to fulfill a court ordered Community Service sentence can find us on the list. We seem to have some appeal, as in the last few months we have helped four young men fulfill their sentences. And one of them continues to come and be with us- even though his commitment to the courts is satisfied! Great program and a real benefit to our community. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 29 07:14:11 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27264 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA26327; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:14:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26242 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:13:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from amber.excite.com ([198.3.99.12]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19990929111305.TLKA1457.fortune@amber.excite.com> for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:13:05 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: CSA delivering to Detroit Area Message-Id: <938603585.25662.906@excite.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:13:05 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 617 I am looking for info about any CSA deliveing to the Detroit/ Grosse Pointe Woods area. I am trying to get my sainted mother interested in eating fresh organic food and since she won't drive to a farm market mybe if the food came to her she might try it. At this point in our conversation she says there are no CSA in the area ,much less any that would deliver near her home. I she correct about this? Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 29 09:46:20 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29573 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA07417; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:46:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA07307 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:45:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:45:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909291345.IAA07307@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 14857 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 13:45:37 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as000-41.iquest.net (209.43.47.41) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 13:45:37 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Mark From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Farm Labor Sources Cc: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 618 I have tapped into this resource via the non-profit I am director of (Hoosier Organic Marketing Education aka HOME) as well. Usually these people end up picking up trash off roadways. Every one I have dealt with except one has been a blessing and really enjoyed the ability to learn a skill. But I wonder how your CSA is considered a non-profit. Would love to see your mission statement and bylaws if you would share them. Having obtained 501(c)3 status for HOME, perhaps I could also be of help to you. I am elated to see others doing this! Thanks! At 07:11 PM 9/28/99 -0400, Mark wrote: >General Mail, >We have found that as we are in the process of obtaining our >"non-profit" status, we requested to be added to the Community Services >list that is maintained by our local court system. >Now, the people who commit a little social boo-boo in our area and need >to fulfill a court ordered Community Service sentence can find us on the >list. We seem to have some appeal, as in the last few months we have >helped four young men fulfill their sentences. And one of them continues >to come and be with us- even though his commitment to the courts is >satisfied! >Great program and a real benefit to our community. > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 29 11:27:38 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01772 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17315; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:27:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.gilanet.com (gilanet.com [207.66.20.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17213 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:26:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [207.66.34.138] by mail.gilanet.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.ag4n) with ESMTP id fa321157 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:20:20 -0600 Message-ID: <37F23099.D2A184DE@gilanet.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:30:38 -0600 From: Stef Fuegi Reply-To: steffo@gilanet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: Farm Labor Sources References: <199909291345.IAA07307@firefly.prairienet.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 619 We are currently looking at taking our CSA non profit also, and would love to see info from others who've done it. As I understand it, CSA itself is NOT an activity that would qualify for 501(c)3 status. But when viewed as a whole, the farm with it's educational work could qualify, and then continue to operate the CSA and other agricultural businesses for the primary purpose of providing students and apprentices with a real life farm experience as a part of our educational programs. I'd love to hear others thoughts on this. And if any of you have actually put your farms into non-profit status, I'd love to see your by laws and such to give us some helpful role models as we seek to make this change. Thanks! Stef Fuegi Bear Creek Farms Gila, NM From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 29 13:16:13 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04646 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA28896; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:16:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA28777 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:15:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 14989 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 17:15:06 -0000 Received: from i48-15-15.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO 216.26.5.143) (216.26.5.143) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 17:15:06 -0000 Message-ID: <37F2436F.274F@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:50:56 -0700 From: Will Newman II Reply-To: osalt@teleport.com Organization: Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Petersons Family CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Farmer's Markets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 620 I have started a farmers' market and sold my own produce at a number of farmers' markets. Most people are drawn to farmers' markets to buy food directly from those who produce it. Indeed, we present the markets just that way - meet face to face with those who grow your food. I strongly object to non-agriculture items and items not produced by the vendors at "farmers' markets". It has to do with abusing language. I have no problem with markets that have vendors who sell what they grow mixed with vendors who buy what they sell and yet other vendorss who make their products. I simply object to calling such a markjet a farmers' market. They are not farmers! This may sound trivial to all of you, but how do organic growers feel about those who use just a little pesticide? Or processors who use mostly organic fruits in their artificailly sweetened jam? When does "organic" stop meaning organic and simply become another marketing term? When does "farmers' market" stop meaning farmers and simply become another marketing term? Will Newman II CSA at Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 29 14:31:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06508 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA06479; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:31:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA06365 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:30:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 15379 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 18:30:26 -0000 Received: from i48-15-26.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO john) (216.26.5.154) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 18:30:26 -0000 Message-ID: <005101bf0aa8$62309dc0$f72afea9@john> From: "John Madsen" To: Subject: any Ideas on getting a good used rototiller in western oregon? Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:28:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF0A6D.B4481880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 621 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF0A6D.B4481880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable looking for a 8+ hp used tiller and have no luck in finding one. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF0A6D.B4481880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    looking for a 8+ hp used tiller and have no = luck in=20 finding one.
    ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF0A6D.B4481880-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 29 15:05:50 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07520 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:05:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09693; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:05:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09627 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:05:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:05:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909291905.OAA09627@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 10811 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 19:05:25 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as001-215.iquest.net (209.43.48.215) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 19:05:25 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "John Madsen" From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: any Ideas on getting a good used rototiller in western oregon? Cc: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 622 WHere are you located? I know of a barely used (<100hours) Troybilt 8 hp that is for sale here in Indiana. At 11:28 AM 9/29/99 -0700, John Madsen wrote: >looking for a 8+ hp used tiller and have no luck in finding one. > > > > > > > >
    looking for a 8+ hp used tiller and have no luck in >finding one.
    > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 29 15:11:01 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07654 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA10151; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:10:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA10085 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:10:32 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:10:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909291910.OAA10085@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 16459 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 19:10:28 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as001-215.iquest.net (209.43.48.215) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 19:10:28 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "John Madsen" From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: any Ideas on getting a good used rototiller in western oregon? Cc: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 623 Oops--didn't see the OR part... SOrry. But maybe somebody else would be interested. The people that have the tiller also have 60 acres of certified land, a house, barn, garage, chicken house and WONDERFUL shed and root cellar (this root cellar is incredible) for sale as well. ~$170K. Includes the tractor and some other equipment. Location just outside of Greencastle IN, not far from DePauw Univ. Inquiries should go to vcarr@ccrtc.com At 11:28 AM 9/29/99 -0700, John Madsen wrote: >looking for a 8+ hp used tiller and have no luck in finding one. > > > > > > > >
    looking for a 8+ hp used tiller and have no luck in >finding one.
    > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 29 15:55:45 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08485 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14581; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:55:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14395 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:53:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:53:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909291953.OAA14395@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 4138 invoked from network); 29 Sep 1999 19:53:49 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as001-215.iquest.net (209.43.48.215) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 29 Sep 1999 19:53:49 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: steffo@gilanet.com From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Farm Labor Sources Cc: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 624 I see the problem in that the property of a nonprofit has to go to another nonprofit upon dissolution. SO the best that could happen is that the farm may have a MOU with a nonprofit entity as an educational activities site and acquire community service for purposes that actually meet the educational mission rather than just meeting labor needs. You have to be careful to make sure the activities of the nonprofit are met with however you use the community service or getting status will be impossible. I suggest that the farm NOT be the nonprofit but that a nonprofit corporation be created that uses the farm as such a site. BUT, a nonprofit cannot be kept in the same hands forever so keep in mind that a change in directors could alter the activities' location. There are 2 kinds of nonprofits--membership and non-membership. Think about how you want to go on that too. I can talk at length about this but I have limited time to type about it. HOME does consultation work to assist others in creating non-profits as well as contractual services for writing bylaws and applying for status. Having done this myself I can tell you it is a lot of work, but is worthwhile and having some experienced help can make a lot of difference. I can make our bylaws available upon request to individuals but I am not really interested in sending all of our stuff out onto public mailing lists--I'd have to ask my board before I could do that and we don't have a meeting coming up soon. There are state nonprofit laws too that you need to know. It is a complicated procedure with many benefits and many responsibilities. If you want to talk to me, pick my brain at 317-539-4317. Keep trying if I am not there. (I don't have funds to call people for this kind of thing and it can be a lengthy conversation) I'm probably just out in the barn or outside celebrating the first real rain we have had since May. At 09:30 AM 9/29/99 -0600, Stef Fuegi wrote: >We are currently looking at taking our CSA non profit also, and would >love to see info from others who've done it. As I understand it, CSA >itself is NOT an activity that would qualify for 501(c)3 status. But >when viewed as a whole, the farm with it's educational work could >qualify, and then continue to operate the CSA and other agricultural >businesses for the primary purpose of providing students and apprentices >with a real life farm experience as a part of our educational programs. > >I'd love to hear others thoughts on this. And if any of you have >actually put your farms into non-profit status, I'd love to see your by >laws and such to give us some helpful role models as we seek to make >this change. > >Thanks! > >Stef Fuegi >Bear Creek Farms >Gila, NM > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Sep 29 22:42:32 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18255 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA18744; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:42:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp2.supernet.com (IDENT:qmailr@smtp2.desupernet.net [204.249.184.45]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA18417 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:37:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 6208 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 02:38:23 -0000 Received: from 188-138.pm4-1.chambersburg.desupernet.net (HELO mail.cvn.net) (208.170.188.138) by smtp2.supernet.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 02:38:23 -0000 Message-ID: <37F2CDA9.47866D8A@mail.cvn.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:40:43 -0400 From: Larry Strite X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: HowdiHeidi@aol.com CC: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: grain References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 625 For those in Franklin County PA spelt can be bought through Franklin feed store in Chambersburg HowdiHeidi@aol.com wrote: > Dear CSA-list members, > I spent most of yesterday trying to track down seed sources for spelt. After > talking to my local Cooperative Extension agent, the folks at VA Seedsman > Assoc. and, finally, the Ohio Crop Improvement center, I found a company > called French's in Wakeman , Ohio. They carry 3 varieties of spelt that > contain no wheat plasm and are available untreated for organic production. > Their web address is: > http://www.accnorwalk.com/~frenchs/ > I hope this information can be useful to any of you (and save you a lot of > time searching by phone/computer) who have been inspired, by recent > discussions, to produce grain on a small scale for your CSA members.... > > Heidi R. Lewis > Community Supported Organic Farm Coalition > Fredericksburg, VA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 30 12:13:03 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01618 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13621; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:13:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13418 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:10:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.114.172.235] (dhcp-172-36.UCSC.EDU [128.114.172.235]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id JAA01477 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:10:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: csafarm@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:18:43 -0700 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: David Oretsky Subject: CSA Farmers Looking For Land Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 626 Dear World, We are experienced organic farmers looking for opportunity/land/community to start CSA project. Currently we run the CSA at the University of California Santa Cruz Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems, other wise known as the UCSC Farm and Garden. If you or anyone you know has information please let us know. Thank you. David Oretsky and Nancy Vail C/O CASFS, UCSC 1156 High St. Santa Cruz, CA 95064 tel: (831)459-3336 fax: (831)459-2799 Nancy Vail and David Oretsky CSA Coordinators Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems University of California at Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, CA 95064 (408)459-3336 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 30 18:17:56 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08418 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA17146; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:13:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16997 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:11:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Rdungan100@aol.com Received: from Rdungan100@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id dBHNLdNbC_ (3860) for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <22e351f3.252539f9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:11:05 EDT Subject: Are organic foods more healthy? To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 627 MSN had an interesting article titled "Are organic foods more healthy?" you can find it at the MSN health web site. Below is url for article http://www.msnbc.com/news/create_p1.asp?SET=www.msnbc.com/news/316999.asp&bt=w ebmd&btu=javascript:history.back() From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Sep 30 21:36:52 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10770 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA06173; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:34:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail1.whidbey.com (mail.whidbey.com [204.94.52.241]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05885 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:31:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [204.94.52.175] (b5-52-175.whidbey.com [204.94.52.175]) by mail1.whidbey.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28420 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Petersons Family Subject: Farmer's Markets Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 628 Thanks for all the responses ( and good references to other sites). I know how you'all feel about fees and trinkets now. I appreciate the input. I too have been feeling exploited by the 10% fee, and have yearly proposed a simple booth fee, or at least a cut back to 5% for those of us providing the farmer in the Farmer's Market. I've been voted down, but now I think I had more cohorts than was obvious, since a furor has erupted over the possibility of our market being managed by someone else. I'll be taking your input along on Saturday, and I hope we can make some good decisions for our community market. Our CSA season ended last week, but we'll keep on with the salad greens for as long as possible, and our market lasts until Halloween. We had an early killing frost on 9/27. I'm feeling proud of the basil patch in my tunnel greenhouse; most ofthe rest is blackened. Surprizing the cinnamon basil seems to have endured the frost with little damage. Has anyone else had experience with frost durability of basil varieties? I had large leaf Italian, two lemon basils, lime , red rueben, and genovese perfume basil in addition to the Cinnamon. They all capitulated to the frost, as did the cucumbers. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Oct 3 19:27:31 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21919 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA28255; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:27:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bay.csuhayward.edu (bay.csuhayward.edu [134.154.3.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28068 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:24:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from haywire.csuhayward.edu ([134.154.5.50]) by bay.csuhayward.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6E5C; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:24:49 -0700 Received: from localhost (jquinter@localhost) by haywire.csuhayward.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18086; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT) From: JOHN QUINTERO To: SCook21809@aol.com cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT In-Reply-To: <6da1829b.251fb11e@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 629 Please send me your snail mail address--I found this so provocative I wrote a "real" letter and wish to continue the conversation. Look forward to hearing from you. John On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 SCook21809@aol.com wrote: > OK John, > Skepticism without offering a positive alternative or reflection is > rather common. I do not know Michael Glass. Yet I am encouraged that he is > willing to research this concept that is poorly defined. I have read and > reflected on this particular subject for a number of years and do not feel > anywhere close to understanding it. Should we reject poorly defined > concepts? Or should we look to dicover the universal truths associated with > a poorly defined concept? I find great comfort in the fact that the truth > remains the truth, regardless of what you or I choose to believe. > With that said, I am willing to go out on a limb and share my ideas > concerning sustainable agriculture and communities. I hope this will be a > fruitfull thread for many. > The Truth About Wellness > Back in 1888, Florence Nightingale wrote, "In truth, wellness is a > condition of choice. A choice as much under our control as any condition in > which we have placed ourselves." My partner, Suzy Cook and I are registered > nurses who genuinely trust the wisdom of the matriarch of our profession. > The choices we make in earning our livelihood, where we live, what we eat and > drink, the air we breathe, and the exercise in which we participate all > contribute to our sense of wellness. > Making a difference > The mission statement of Ocean Sky Farm is, "To Observe, Apply, and > Teach sustainable urban agriculture." We have chosen to teach by example. > It has required a lot of trial and error. Then try again. But we have made > slow and methodical progress. When we decided we wanted to provide our > family with wholesome naturally grown foods we started gardening. As we > learned the symbiotic relationships that abound on this planet, we began to > feed our neighbors from the abundance. We supplemented our produce by > starting a natural foods dry goods co-operative to nurture our community more > completely. And now we offer herbal body care products and soaps grown and > processed from our organic farm. > Each step has required a shift in perception. We have both let go of our > "secure" nursing jobs in order to embrace our healing work. We first had to > learn to trust our faith in Spirit to provide the opportunities and support > that we would require. Only then, did we discover that we had to release the > status quo with both hands in order to be fully open to receiving Grace. > Furthermore, we learned to ask for what is needed to carry on. Of course > there are financial challenges. But the emotional rewards and satisfaction > of bringing balance back into our lives and our community are priceless. We > live with three well-adjusted school age children. Their ease and social > awareness has earned them acceptance with both peers and teachers alike. > What more could parents hope for? > Observation > The key words in our mission statement are sustainable agriculture. > There are no clear definitions for sustainable agriculture or community. It > is an abstract concept that we are guided to pursue. We won't know it until > we achieve it. But the closer we come to sustainability the more symbiotic > the relationships become between the parts and the whole. > We try to observe the relationships between seasons, placement, and other > living beings for every problem. An example of observation, is our chicken > tractor. We noticed as the birds scratched through the litter and found slug > eggs that they would chortle as they feasted which would bring other chickens > to the area scratching for their own chicken caviar. Soon, we would have > neither slugs nor slug eggs in the areas where we let the birds run. So we > built portable coops to move around the gardens to organically control a > common problem. > Precepts of sustainability > The three precepts of sustainability in agriculture and community are > competition, predation and habitat. All life (and business) is balanced by > these three precepts. Like it or not, competition is a fact of life where > one life form must compete against another for scarce resources. An example > of competition in the garden is planting corn close enough together so it can > compete for sun light, water and soil nutrients better than the weeds that > have viable seeds on the ground next to it. Mulching around the corn and > using drip irrigation at the base of each corn stock gives the corn a great > advantage over any weed. > Predation refers to who consumes what. Even in the soil there is a > hierarchy of life forms starting at the microscopic level, which we can not > see, and increases in complexity to the earthworms and moles we can see. > Each consumes the other in a dance that creates humus and soil tilth. Soils > void of these life forms are compacted, airless and hydrophobic. An example > of predation in our community is how development consumes farms. It's the > nature of our expanding economy. So some of us must learn to farm on smaller > lots and grow more food instead of grass and ornamental plants. As we move > toward sustainability on our farm we find that we are consuming selected > community wastes such as coffee grounds from espresso stands and grass > clippings from landscapers to make compost for food production. > Habitat is the third precept that completes the circle of life. > Habitat is an object that houses and protects a population from the elements > and predators. An example of habitat is when we drill holes in a block of > cedar. A very beneficial bee called the Mason Bee fills the holes with eggs > and pollen then caps the opening with mud. The bee helps us because she is > an excellent early spring pollinator. We also grow flowers on the farm to > provide habitat for carnivorous insects that eat our pests like flea beetles > and aphids. > Teaching sustainability > In an effort to teach sustainable urban agriculture we offer > subscriptions to our harvest through a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) > program. Subscribers pay in advance for the next years produce. They then > come by the farm once a week to pick up a bag of organic seasonal fruits and > vegetables. Organic free-range eggs are also available. We encourage our > subscribers to linger and visit with us, to ask gardening questions and to > pick their own berries and culinary herbs at the farm. We also offer a > limited number of apprenticeships and internships for people who are serious > about becoming urban farmers and are willing to make a significant time > commitment toward that goal. > Compliance with the cause > To awaken to the consequences of our actions we must be willing to > change our perceptions, assumptions and behaviors. Drive a little less. Eat > locally grown food. Buy local products. Stop exposing ourselves to the > brainwashing effects of TV and the media. As a society we participate in the > destruction of salmon habitat by purchasing wood products that are logged by > clear cutting. Then we drive our motor vehicles over and near salmon streams > where rain runoff from the roads choke the streams with petroleum products. > We consent to act as guinea pigs by purchasing food containing genetically > modified organisms (GMO). There is no public outcry for the labeling of such > products in the United States because too many of us are willing to trade our > future health status for cheap groceries today. The only label that assures > there is no GMO in it is the Organic label. > Act now > Every action contributes to our level of wellness and our level of > illness. Only by changing our perceptions, assumptions and behaviors can we > create a sustainable agriculture and community. We are free to choose the > life and landscape we want. We can no longer afford to externalize the costs > of our consumption to the great mother earth. > My partner and I believe that we can exercise our free will in order to > bring about a necessary increase in personal awareness. This rise in > awareness comes incrementally, in the choices we make during our activities > of daily living. If you can't commit to a more sustainable livelihood for > yourself, then commit to supporting a neighbor or business that has. Open > your mind and heart to the workings of Spirit and surely your perceptions, > assumptions and behaviors will evolve. Only one truth informs creation. > Free will gives us the choice to participate or not. > Art Biggert > Ocean Sky Farm > August 22, 1999 > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Oct 3 19:29:30 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21938 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA28488; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:29:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bay.csuhayward.edu (bay.csuhayward.edu [134.154.3.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28417 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:29:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from haywire.csuhayward.edu ([134.154.5.50]) by bay.csuhayward.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6ED4; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:29:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (jquinter@localhost) by haywire.csuhayward.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18255; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:28:50 -0700 (PDT) From: JOHN QUINTERO To: SCook21809@aol.com cc: Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au, csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: urban development In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 630 Art Biggert Please send me your snail mail address at big sky farms. I found your response very instructive and I wrote a real letter. Look forward to hearing from you. The monster development wishes to sustain itself-- John Quintero On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 SCook21809@aol.com wrote: > Anton, > I regret that the insatiable monster called development is devouring > your farm and CSA. There is great honor in being evicted, rather than > selling out. Your good works will bare fruit. I pray that you will find a > stronger community that values your efforts enough to secure an open space > for you to continue. Perhaps you are bring uprooted so you can have a > greater impact on more people at a yet undisclosed venue. Look for those > opportunities. Good luck, and keep the list informed of your progress. > Best regards, > Art > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Oct 3 19:36:54 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21974 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA28989; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:36:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bay.csuhayward.edu (bay.csuhayward.edu [134.154.3.13]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28917 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:36:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from haywire.csuhayward.edu ([134.154.5.50]) by bay.csuhayward.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6F8F; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:36:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (jquinter@localhost) by haywire.csuhayward.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18573; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:36:06 -0700 (PDT) From: JOHN QUINTERO To: David Oretsky cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: CSA Farmers Looking For Land In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 631 Hi, I'm in the process of compiling a land bank data base in the Bay area counties and would like to help you and join you. My phone is 510-727-9924 Mail to 2037 "E" Street Hayward CA 94541 On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, David Oretsky wrote: > Dear World, > > We are experienced organic farmers looking for opportunity/land/community > to start CSA project. Currently we run the CSA at the University of > California Santa Cruz Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems, > other wise known as the UCSC Farm and Garden. If you or anyone you know has > information please let us know. Thank you. > > David Oretsky and Nancy Vail > C/O CASFS, UCSC > 1156 High St. > Santa Cruz, CA 95064 > > tel: (831)459-3336 > fax: (831)459-2799 > > Nancy Vail and David Oretsky > CSA Coordinators > Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems > University of California at Santa Cruz > Santa Cruz, CA 95064 > (408)459-3336 > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Oct 5 13:31:07 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26420 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:31:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA11563; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:30:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA11401 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:29:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:29:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910051729.MAA11401@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 21083 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1999 17:29:02 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as001-139.iquest.net (209.43.48.139) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 1999 17:29:02 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Land wanted Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 632 >Return-Path: >Delivered-To: cvof@iquest.net >From: Russdoit@aol.com >Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:17:31 EDT >Subject: Land wanted >To: cvof@iquest.net > >Organic certified land south of Kansas City, within one hour, preferably in >Kansas. > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Oct 6 17:31:05 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25960 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA04282; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:30:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04043 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:28:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.114.172.187] (dhcp-172-52.UCSC.EDU [128.114.172.187]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id OAA09087 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:33:56 -0700 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Anne-Marie Napoli Subject: CSA Job Announcement Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 633 CSA Manager/Assistant Field Manager Position with Farm & Garden Apprenticeship University of California, Santa Cruz Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems Below is a job description for a CSA Manager/Assistant Field Manager at the 25-acre teaching farm and Apprenticeship Program which are part of the UCSC Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems (CASFS). Please pass this information on to eligible applicants you may know and/or post it where appropriate. The position will involve managing of organic field production, instructing apprentices in the CASFS Apprenticeship Program, and managing the Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) direct-marketing program, among other things. The closing date for applications is October 15, and we hope to fill the job by January 1. The starting salary for this full-time position is $28,152-$30,000/year with full benefits. Please see the job description for more details. To receive a University application form, contact (831) 459-2011 or www.ucsc.edu. For more information about the Apprenticeship and the Center for Agroecology, call (831) 459-3240, or look us up on the web at http://zzyx.ucsc.edu/casfs. If you would like to speak with Ann Lindsey directly about the position, please call (831) 459-2321 or email alindsey@cats.ucsc.edu. CSA COORDINATOR/ASSISTANT FIELD MANAGER COMMUNITY SUPPORTED AGRICULTURE (CSA) JOB #99-08-23 FULL-TIME/CAREER STARTING SALARY RANGE: $2346-$2500/month SUMMARY OF DUTIES: Under the general supervision of CASFS Farm Manager, the incumbent will coordinate the Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) project, assist with field production, and supervise and instruct apprentice crews in the CASFS Farm field and orchards. SPECIFIC RESPONSIBILITIES INCLUDE: Planning: assist with production plans for both CSA and Market Cart crops for each season; facilitate seed orders, contribute to crop planning and sowing list creation; work with Garden Managers to coordinate crop production from gardens; facilitate meetings to determine start/end dates, member numbers, share sizes, share prices, box value, etc.; attend staff meetings, planning meetings, and other committee meetings as requested. Administration and Outreach: coordinate member recruitment; coordinate the revision and production of member brochure and newsletter, pledge forms, and flyers; update and oversee payment administration and record-keeping; develop and conduct member surveys; coordinate logistics of distribution area, including parking, greeters, check-off list; recruit and organize core group members; assist with the organization of public events. Production: perform tractor work in fields and orchards; perform or oversee transplanting and direct-sowing; work with Propagation Manager to coordinate field sowings in the greenhouse; perform or oversee field irrigation, weeding, and fertilizing; assist with making field compost; prune orchards and assist with orchard management; oversee management member garden; assist with general site upkeep around buildings and landscaped areas. Crew Supervision and Instruction: coordinate apprentice work crews in all aspects of field production harvesting and direct-marketing; supervise harvest coordinators and facilitate coordination between sites; meet with work crews on a daily basis to give overview of work plan; provide orientation to new work tasks and instruction on more advanced skills; orient apprentices to appropriate and safe tool use; supervise interns, volunteers, and work study students; instruct apprentices in all aspects of management, including production, administration, and outreach; provide in-field training for apprentices in crop production including field irrigation, bed preparation, planting, fertility, pest and pathogen management, and cultivation techniques; instruct apprentices in methods of harvesting and post-harvest handling for field crops. QUALIFICATIONS INCLUDE (with or without accommodation): experience with organic row crop and fruit tree production, including harvesting and post-harvest handling of a wide variety of crops; experience with direct market sales and record-keeping; experience running a Community Supported Agriculture project including outreach, administration, and production; experience in tractor operation sufficient to perform basic operations with minimal supervision; organizational and time management skills sufficient to independently set priorities, coordinate and complete a number of competing assignments; propagation experience and skills sufficient to make soil mixes for various propagation needs, sow a wide variety of seed types and assess seedling fertilization needs; thorough understanding of organic practices necessary to maintain CCOF certification. The abilities to: set up, effectively operate, and maintain a variety of irrigation systems as well as skillfully irrigate a wide variety of crops; coordinate and teach others in a garden and/or field setting; deliver information and instruction in a clear and thorough manner, effectively and tactfully interact with diverse groups of people and work in a team situation; demonstrate strong interpersonal skills. Preferred Qualifications: training or educational background in basic agronomy or horticulture. FINAL FILING DATE 10/15/99 STARTING DATE: Current Opening This position is eligible for full benefits Application materials must reflect a job number (#99-08-23) and must be received in the Staff Human Resources Office by 5 PM on October 15, 1999. For applications, see www.ucsc.edu, call (831) 459-2011, or write Staff Human Resources, 102 Communications Building, Santa Cruz, CA 95064. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Oct 6 19:30:13 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27791 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA15447; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:30:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15275 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:29:08 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id dSEBa22485 (4190) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.4ee09c3e.252d3521@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:28:33 EDT Subject: CSA in Alexandria Virginia? To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id SAA15276 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 634 I've had an inquiry about CSAs located in or delivering to the Alexandria, Virginia area? There are none listed on the rfarm directory within less than about an hour's commute, as far as I can tell....Is anyone out there? Thanks! Heidi R. Lewis Community Supported Organic Farm Coalition of the greater Fredericksburg area From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 01:32:10 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03011 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA16273; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:32:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16198 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:31:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.18] (pm3shep4-163-165.intrepid.net [209.190.163.165]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18201; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:31:14 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.4ee09c3e.252d3521@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:54 -0400 To: HowdiHeidi@aol.com From: Allan Balliett Subject: Re: CSA in Alexandria Virginia? Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id AAA16199 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 635 >I've had an inquiry about CSAs located in or delivering to the Alexandria, >Virginia area? There are none listed on the rfarm directory within less than >about an hour's commute, as far as I can tell....Is anyone out there? >Thanks! >Heidi R. Lewis >Community Supported Organic Farm Coalition >of the greater Fredericksburg area The Claymont Farm CSA - - a biodynamic farm - - will be providing CSA to Alexandria in the coming season. Accoteek Foundation also makes CSA available to that area. Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA BIODYNAMICS Now! temp mailing address: 207 W. High Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 Voice Mail: (304) 724-6763 FAX Forwarding (815) 550-6067 =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. Don't miss the 1999 Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference this October 1-3 at Claymont Court, near the Baltimore-Washington Megalopolis. For more information: http://www.igg.com/bdnow Archives to BD Now! are located at: http://csf.colorado.edu/biodynamics/ To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 09:35:13 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06834 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12878; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:35:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12691 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:33:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19991007133846.15019.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.138.121] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 06:38:46 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:38:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Community Farm newsletter To: CSAlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 636 If it's been mentioned before, I apologize for bringing it up again. I heard that there's a newsletter for CSA farmers called (something like) "Community Farm: A Voice for CSA" Does anyone know anything about this newsletter? What's your opinion of it? Thanks! Kirsten Saylor Sustainable Agriculture Network Beltsville, MD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 09:46:01 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06973 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA14557; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:45:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (mail.pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14454 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:45:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.229] [209.8.149.217] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A5668EE60140; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 09:51:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0.4ee09c3e.252d3521@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:45:15 -0400 To: HowdiHeidi@aol.com From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: CSA in Alexandria Virginia? Cc: CSA list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id IAA14455 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 637 There is a list of DC area CSA's at Goodfood DC http://www.1earth.com/goodfooddc/growers/ >I've had an inquiry about CSAs located in or delivering to the Alexandria, >Virginia area? There are none listed on the rfarm directory within less than >about an hour's commute, as far as I can tell....Is anyone out there? >Thanks! >Heidi R. Lewis >Community Supported Organic Farm Coalition >of the greater Fredericksburg area From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 11:20:51 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08734 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA25174; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:20:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from msue.msue.msu.edu (msue.msue.msu.edu [35.8.2.18]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25061 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:19:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smalley (smalley3.user.msu.edu [35.10.78.136]) by msue.msue.msu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA66189; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:19:43 -0400 Message-Id: <199910071519.LAA66189@msue.msue.msu.edu> X-Sender: smalley@msue.msu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:18:28 -0400 To: Kirsten Saylor From: Susan Smalley Subject: Re: Community Farm newsletter Cc: CSAlist In-Reply-To: <19991007133846.15019.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 638 Hi Kirsten & CSA-L The Community Farm: A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture is a quarterly newsletter published by Jo Meller and Jim Sluyter, who operate Five Springs Farm, a CSA in northwestern Michigan. Subscriptions are $20. Send your requests to 3480 Potter Road, Bear Lake, MI 49614. You may also contact Jo and Jim at fsfarm@mufn.org. You can learn more about Five Springs Farm and about other lower midwest CSA's by getting a copy of The Many Faces of Community Supported Agriculture (CSA): A Guide to Community Supported Agriculture in Indiana, Michigan and Ohio. This 103 page book was edited and designed by Laura DeLind, published this year by the Michigan Organic Food and Farm Alliance, and supported by a North Central SARE Professional Development Program grant. Extension offices in the three target states have all received reference copies. Additional copies are avaliable for $10 each. Send your check to MOFFA, c/o Laura DeLind, 302 Baker Hall, East Lansing, MI 48824. I hope this information helps. At 06:38 AM 10/7/1999 -0700, Kirsten Saylor wrote: >If it's been mentioned before, I apologize for bringing it up again. > >I heard that there's a newsletter for CSA farmers called (something like) "Community >Farm: A Voice for CSA" > >Does anyone know anything about this newsletter? What's your opinion of it? > >Thanks! > >Kirsten Saylor >Sustainable Agriculture Network >Beltsville, MD Susan B. Smalley Extension Specialist Sustainable Food & Farming Systems smalley@msue.msu.edu A-270 Plant & Soil Sciences Building 517 432 0049 voice East Lansing, MI 48824-1325 517 353 3834 fax From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 12:06:32 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09766 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00122; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:06:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00005 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:05:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19991007161110.12511.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.138.121] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 09:11:10 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor To: CSAlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 639 Another question for everyone on the list. The USDA has been talking with Parade Magazine which is working on a feature article about CSAs (Nov issue will be about food trends). Parade is strongly asking for a "one-stop shop" source for people to connect with a CSA in their area. There really is no ONE place right now, although Steve Moore with Wilson College and the Robyn van En Center is working on one. With a readership of around 84 million people, the article could be a great way to highlight CSAs and many of the problems with conventional food system. Without the one-stop-shop, there's a strong feeling that the article wouldn't be published. SAN/SARE in conjunction with the CSA Center (Moore) could be the one-stop-shop for interim, and probably have the CSA center take it on long term. My questions/issues that I would like to hear from people (and quickly, there's a near deadline on this) are: What are your feelings on having a national database? Would you want to be on it? What information would you not want to have posted? Consider: privacy issues, "updatability", usefulness of a database to you in recruiting new members... Would this be of benefit to the CSA MOVEMENT? What of the organizations that already maintain regional directories? Would this be a project that could recognize their work and benefit them as well? I welcome any other thoughts you have on the matter. My personal thoughts have been that when ONE organization has a complete listing, then it takes away from the grassroots of the movement and colors it as mainstream. It also seems that a national "database" of CSA farms (if it is even feasible) be anti-thetical to the movement itself (people supporting an alternative food system, one that is not monolithic). I welcome your thoughts! Lastly, I am assuming that nearly everyone on this list knows of the SARE program. This is really unfair of me, and I hope that if you are not familiar with SARE and SAN (the information arm of SARE) that you will take a look at our webpage or please contact me directly for more information. I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have about SAN and SARE. Kirsten Saylor Sustainable Agriculture Network C/O AFSIC, National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave, room 304 Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 301/504-6173 ksaylor@nal.usda.gov www.sare.org ===== Kirsten Saylor 1708 N. Troy St. #805 Arlington, VA 22201 703/465-9647 God is in the details -- attributed to Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 12:30:41 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10323 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA02721; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:30:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root@mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02486 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:28:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 165.227.130.72 (sa-165-227-130-72.cruzio.com [165.227.130.72]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id JAA26801; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FC6996.3FAD@mariquita.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 09:36:22 +0000 From: Julia Wiley Reply-To: csa@mariquita.com Organization: Mariquita Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kirsten Saylor CC: CSA list Subject: another great newsletter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 640 Hello, We enjoy and USE this newsletter: Growing for Market: 1-800-307-8949. Their email address is: growing4market@earthlink.net Julia Mariquita Farm Organically grown herbs, berries & specialty vegetables From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 13:02:21 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11025 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06109; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:02:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06022 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:01:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:01:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910071701.MAA06022@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: (qmail 12154 invoked from network); 7 Oct 1999 17:01:16 -0000 Received: from iq-ind-as003-126.iquest.net (209.43.53.126) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 1999 17:01:16 -0000 X-Sender: cvof@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Kirsten Saylor From: Cecilia Bowman Subject: Re: Cc: CSAlist Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 641 I do not have a problem with a one-stop-shop idea. CSA's who choose not to be included could just stay out and do their own word-of-mouth thing. Having been in the organic and CSA community for a LONG time, I have seen and felt the problems arising from people not knowing Who and what is going on out there. I would be happy if USDA, states, SARE and for that matter, provided info on CSAs that want their names, etc to be made available. I'd hate to think that this is somehow "secret" information... Right now if you call an organic certifier with a question about local organic operations you usually run into a brick wall or an exhorbitant "research" fee...I just recently found out that the list of FSIS approved organic meat labels is not available unless you use the Freedom of Information Act. This, to me is absurd. CSA's, organic farmers, certified organic operations lists, etc... are BUSINESSES for Pete's sake. I thought businesses wanted to be promoted. I sure do. As far as info: the who, what when where and maybe even why should be up there. Certification status should be there. Where else the farmers sell (stores, pick up spots, farmers markets...) Range of items. How flexible the operation is (single units or only family ones--do they cater to special needs?--internship/job opportunities--farm tours...) A lot of us pay for ads to do this kind of thing--why wouldn't we want it to be available to people? I wonder if there really is a CSA "movement." I know I have not had a great deal of help or good contact from other local CSAs. It's more like competition--some here have even badmouthed each other to try to gain more business. It's time farmers, especially CSA farmers begin to really hang together. Farming is hard. We need each other's support and support from the gvmt as well. If we don't make ourselves visible and work with each other we will not last. I see no reason why all the groups cannot create a synergistic relationship. But then I have also seen the competition for grant money that organizations can get into. It's time to end this and be a COMMUNITY of CSAs. The more that work to educate and promote us, the better. And yes, I know about SARE and SAN. My North Central Region SARE Techincal Committee (Producer member) appointment ends this year and it has been a valuable and educational experience. I have treasured the people and the knowledge that came with it. If anyone else ever gets the opportunity to be a part of SARE--go for it! At 09:11 AM 10/7/99 -0700, Kirsten Saylor wrote: >Another question for everyone on the list. > >The USDA has been talking with Parade Magazine which is working on a feature article >about CSAs (Nov issue will be about food trends). Parade is strongly asking for a >"one-stop shop" source for people to connect with a CSA in their area. There really is >no ONE place right now, although Steve Moore with Wilson College and the Robyn van En >Center is working on one. > >With a readership of around 84 million people, the article could be a great way to >highlight CSAs and many of the problems with conventional food system. Without the >one-stop-shop, there's a strong feeling that the article wouldn't be published. SAN/SARE >in conjunction with the CSA Center (Moore) could be the one-stop-shop for interim, and >probably have the CSA center take it on long term. > >My questions/issues that I would like to hear from people (and quickly, there's a near >deadline on this) are: > >What are your feelings on having a national database? Would you want to be on it? What >information would you not want to have posted? >Consider: privacy issues, "updatability", usefulness of a database to you in recruiting >new members... > >Would this be of benefit to the CSA MOVEMENT? What of the organizations that already >maintain regional directories? Would this be a project that could recognize their work >and benefit them as well? > >I welcome any other thoughts you have on the matter. My personal thoughts have been that >when ONE organization has a complete listing, then it takes away from the grassroots of >the movement and colors it as mainstream. It also seems that a national "database" of >CSA farms (if it is even feasible) be anti-thetical to the movement itself (people >supporting an alternative food system, one that is not monolithic). > >I welcome your thoughts! > >Lastly, I am assuming that nearly everyone on this list knows of the SARE program. This >is really unfair of me, and I hope that if you are not familiar with SARE and SAN (the >information arm of SARE) that you will take a look at our webpage or please contact me >directly for more information. I would be more than happy to answer any questions you >have about SAN and SARE. > >Kirsten Saylor >Sustainable Agriculture Network >C/O AFSIC, National Agricultural Library >10301 Baltimore Ave, room 304 >Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 >301/504-6173 >ksaylor@nal.usda.gov >www.sare.org > > >===== >Kirsten Saylor >1708 N. Troy St. #805 >Arlington, VA 22201 >703/465-9647 > >God is in the details >-- attributed to Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > Cissy Bowman, President, Hoosier Organic Marketing Education Vice President of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Website: http://www.iquest.net/ofma/ 8364 S SR 39 Clayton, IN 46118 317-539-4317 cvof@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 14:56:52 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13429 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:56:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA25506; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:56:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.gilanet.com (gilanet.com [207.66.20.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA25344 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:55:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gilanet.com (gilanet.com [207.66.34.118]) by mail.gilanet.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.ag4n) with ESMTP id ya345408 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:48:46 -0600 Message-ID: <37FCED9F.F52ABC4D@gilanet.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 13:00:12 -0600 From: Stef Fuegi Reply-To: steffo@gilanet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: One stop shop Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4661A26997D0E3F32CACF93C" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 642 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4661A26997D0E3F32CACF93C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd be really happy about the "one stop shop idea". I think building recognition for all CSA farms as a way for consumers to get the highest quality produce at a great price and support local farms is a terrific idea. I know that many, many people now use the web to do extensive searches before they move to a new area to find the services that are available there. I think that CSA members who move, as well as people just looking for a CSA for the first time would benefit dramatically from a "one stop shop" for CSA info. It would also be possible to develop links with many types of organizations that would lead people to a CSA farm in their area. I'm thinking about how promotion of our CSA has spread through groups like an organization that supports nursing moms. With a growing number of people seeking organic food, and threats to the organic standard, CSA farms offer a safe and sustainable choice that I think many more consumers would choose if they knew about it! Just my opinion. Stef Fuegi Bear Creek Farms Gila, NM --------------4661A26997D0E3F32CACF93C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <37FCED10.15DE9115@gilanet.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:57:49 -0600 From: Stef Fuegi Reply-To: steffo@gilanet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Re: References: <19991007161110.12511.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd be really happy about the "one stop shop idea". I think building recognition for all CSA farms as a way for consumers to get the highest quality produce at a great price and support local farms is a terrific idea. I know that many, many people now use the web to do extensive searches before they move to a new area to find the services that are available there. I think that CSA members who move, as well as people just looking for a CSA for the first time would benefit dramatically from a "one stop shop" for CSA info. It would also be possible to develop links with many types of organizations that would lead people to a CSA farm in their area. I'm thinking about how promotion of our CSA has spread through groups like an organization that supports nursing moms. With a growing number of people seeking organic food, and threats to the organic standard, CSA farms offer a safe and sustainable choice that I think many more consumers would choose if they knew about it! Just my opinion. Stef Fuegi Bear Creek Farms Gila, NM --------------4661A26997D0E3F32CACF93C-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 16:04:49 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14630 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:04:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23432; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:04:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23313 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:03:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from wiser.excite.com ([199.172.152.234]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19991007200247.KTXL26736.kuku@wiser.excite.com> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:02:47 -0700 From: "Lucy Goodman-Owsley" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: One stop shop Message-Id: <939326567.7055.769@excite.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 13:02:47 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.125 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 643 I too am in agreement that a national database/"one stop shop" would be benificial. I have been having a tough time finding members for our CSA mostly because of ignorance-no one it seems on the Indiana/Ohio line even knows what the CSA concept is all about so right now we get few members and educate people. Most folks around here think that "CSA" is some sort of farm labor union and when i explain that it is not a labor union but a new form of farming they get lost. An articlke in a place like Parade would go a long way towards clearing this and other misconceptions about CSA. I agree with Cissy that there doesn't seem to be any kind of CSA movement around here. We are the only CSA in the area though 2 others are opening next season. We don't have competition from the other farmers around here because there aren't any but there is also no communication between us either-I know the YS/Dayton area has several CSA but I don't know who they all are (But I will list you on my web page as an ohio CSA if you email me). I do see one problem with a national database which is keeping it updated-CSA do come and go with great frequency. But I suppose that that can be up to each farm to relist every season. As was already said CSA is a Business and if we want to succeed we need as much publicity as we can get and free news articles are the best advertisements of all. Yes I would like to be included in the data base if it happens > > > > Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 19:47:20 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19612 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA19334; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:47:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sungod.ccs.yorku.ca (IDENT:G+Kp216/94bVVXv6DEPf8TijIxoxursQ@sungod.ccs.yorku.ca [130.63.236.104]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18732 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:40:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from marlaz (flynn11.slip.yorku.ca [130.63.184.117]) by sungod.ccs.yorku.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA18366 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007401bf111d$429a5e80$75b83f82@marlaz> From: "Ted Battiston" To: Subject: The one stop shop debate Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:39:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006C_01BF10FB.B1AE7760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 644 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01BF10FB.B1AE7760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,=20 I'm new to this list, not a farmer, nor am I American. However, as a masters student in environmental ethics I am administering = =3D a CSA in BC, Canada. I believe in the CSA model as an important =3D opportunity to engage my local community into a closer relationship and = =3D dialogue with local growers, local community and with the environment. I = =3D agree with food critic Brewster Kneen, CSAs are a direct and meaningful = =3D resistance to global food systems that separate and distance people =3D (physically, culturally and intellectually) from the sources of their = =3D food - both from the growers and from the land. I'm sure no one here =3D needs this reminder, but I think it bears on the dialogue at hand. =3D Kristen commented that when an organization has ONE listing it loses its = =3D 'grassrootedness'. I have two thoughts on this, first we could be so =3D lucky if the notion of the CSA became mainstream and wide-spread. I =3D would think all those involved would like to see a national food system = =3D based on the CSA model rather than current global agribusiness. Needless = =3D to say, community and the environment would also be well served in this = =3D way. Secondly, whatever a CSA monolith may be, I'm not convinced that a = =3D website that a national list of all CSAs would have the effect of =3D creating a monolith, reducing individuality, or reducing local =3D attachment of CSA farmers to their communities. I don't believe people = =3D believe in CSAs because there're rare, or trendy or cool. People support = =3D this 'alternative food system' because they believe in the alternative = =3D itself, not because its simply non-monolithical. A monolithic system =3D made of a myriad of small CSAs, family farms and local self-sufficiency = =3D is hardly a system to be feared. Perhaps, I've had too much coffee today, but these are my thoughts. Ted. _______________________________________________________ Ted Battiston Masters Candidate Environmental =3D Studies 17 Flamingo Cres. York University North York, Ontario. 4700 Keele Street, M6M 4E9 Toronto, Ontario. theodore@yorku.ca M3J 1P3 _______________________________________________________ ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01BF10FB.B1AE7760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi,
     
    I'm new to this list, not a farmer, nor am I = American.

    However, as a=20 masters student in environmental ethics I am administering =3D
    a CSA = in BC,=20 Canada. I believe in the CSA model as an important =3D
    opportunity to = engage my=20 local community into a closer relationship and =3D
    dialogue with = local growers,=20 local community and with the environment. I =3D
    agree with food = critic Brewster=20 Kneen, CSAs are a direct and meaningful =3D
    resistance to global food = systems=20 that separate and distance people =3D
    (physically, culturally and=20 intellectually) from the sources of their =3D
    food - both from the = growers and=20 from the land. I'm sure no one here =3D
    needs this reminder, but I = think it=20 bears on the dialogue at hand. =3D
    Kristen commented that when an = organization=20 has ONE listing it loses its =3D
    'grassrootedness'. I have two = thoughts on=20 this, first we could be so =3D
    lucky if the notion of the CSA became = mainstream=20 and wide-spread. I =3D
    would think all those involved would like to = see a=20 national food system =3D
    based on the CSA model rather than current = global=20 agribusiness. Needless =3D
    to say, community and the environment = would also be=20 well served in this =3D
    way. Secondly, whatever a CSA monolith may = be, I'm not=20 convinced that a =3D
    website that a national list of all CSAs would = have the=20 effect of =3D
    creating a monolith, reducing individuality, or = reducing local=20 =3D
    attachment of CSA farmers to their communities. I don't believe = people=20 =3D
    believe in CSAs because there're rare, or trendy or cool. People = support=20 =3D
    this 'alternative food system' because they believe in the = alternative=20 =3D
    itself, not because its simply non-monolithical. A monolithic = system=20 =3D
    made of a myriad of small CSAs, family farms and local = self-sufficiency=20 =3D
    is hardly a system to be feared.

    Perhaps, I've had too = much coffee=20 today, but these are my=20 thoughts.

    Ted.
    ________________________________________________= _______
    Ted=20 Battiston          &nbs= p;            = ;=20 Masters Candidate Environmental =3D
    Studies
    17 Flamingo=20 Cres.           &n= bsp; =20 York University
    North York,=20 Ontario.           = ; =20 4700 Keele Street,
    M6M=20 4E9           &nbs= p;            = ;    =20 Toronto, Ontario.
    theodore@yorku.ca   =          =20 M3J=20 1P3
    _______________________________________________________
    <= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01BF10FB.B1AE7760-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Oct 7 22:30:06 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21855 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03573; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:30:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp1.supernet.com (IDENT:qmailr@smtp1.desupernet.net [204.249.184.44]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03440 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:28:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 24398 invoked from network); 8 Oct 1999 02:27:51 -0000 Received: from 188-32.pm4-1.chambersburg.desupernet.net (HELO mail.cvn.net) (208.170.188.32) by smtp1.supernet.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 1999 02:27:51 -0000 Message-ID: <37FD579C.833B6FDA@mail.cvn.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:31:57 -0400 From: Larry Strite X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Quality Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 645 Hi I been reading the messages and would like to hear from the group, when you talk a