From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 2 20:12:42 2000 Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 20:12:42 -0500 (EST) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0921369867 0000001154 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 11:51:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17834 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:51:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17970 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:45:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08903; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:45:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08820 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:44:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from [209.8.149.174] [209.8.149.174] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A6B821F014A; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:47:52 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:47:52 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: Aria & Tyria Cucs: Worth the price? Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 Dori, I'm going just the opposite direction with my shareholders. While they are slowly learning that tomatoes aren't available in June, I'm finding that they also like the unusual. "What I liked most about the program was getting vegetables I had never seen before." was a comment that I got from more than one shareholder. So, while I'm not going crazy with the ground cherries, etc. I'm growing a little of the less common veggies to give them a thrill (or atleast a new experience). This, though, shouldn't detract from growing plenty of the basics that everyne loves to eat. (by the way, I now have a bunch of shareholders that consider tatsoi a basic, everyday, veggie). Leigh >It all, entirely, absolutely, depends on the market. I don't have a market >here for fancy cucumbers -- people are looking for corn (in June), tomatoes >(in June), and you guessed it, watermelons (in June). Lettuce is a slow mover >and broccoli raab is going to be a hard-sell this summer (but I like it so I'm >growing it). I'm doing a limited trial of Holland cukes because they _can_ >sell for $1 each and I happen to have some trellis space. > >If you're in an area with some 4-star restaurants, expensive caterers, etc., >those folks will appreciate the fancy veggies and will probably appreciate a >local source for them. But unless requested specifically by members, I >wouldn't go heavily into the fancies. > >Good grief, it's hard enough to get them to try tatsoi. > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 13:05:48 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18918 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:05:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA04036 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:59:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12402; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:58:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12321 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:57:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903131757.LAA12321@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 9561628; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:57:38 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "CSA List" Subject: "Pick-up Pointers" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:39:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 Hello all, I am working on my farm's rules for the coming year. We have never had rules before but we now feel it is time to let the community know what to expect when they arrive at the farm, what is expected of them and what they can expect from us, the farmers. Do you have anything in writing? I'd like to hear what some of them are and if your life on pick-up days has improved since you sent it out. JO Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:25:57 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18396 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22751 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:20:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25390; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:18:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25312 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:17:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp233.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.233]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA30836 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:17:13 -0500 Message-ID: <36E8A43D.F187AA4D@greatbridge.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:21:04 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Johnny's/Fedco/Stokes:newbie question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 Hello again, I have spent the last few months pouring over catalogs and books in preperation for starting my csa/market garden. I plan to start the csa next year. This year I intend to do some trials (hopefully) and maybe market some excess produce through a farmers market. Most of my literature leads me to three main sources for seeds: Johnny's, Fedco, and Stokes. I just got my Johnny's commercial catalog and sat down and did some comparing. I also placed a large (for me) order with Fedco earlier and have received it with no problems. Johnny's has the nicest, easiest to read catalog with the best info in my opinion and they also have the best selections. Fedco has substantially lower prices than either Johnny's or Stokes. So what does Stokes have? I am curious because I know they have a good reputation but, at the quantities I am looking at, their prices are not really competative and their selection is not exceptional. They charge for shipping (only $3.75 admittedly) and you have to order $700.00 to get a five percent discount. Johnny's gives 5% discount (2% for charge card orders) and free shipping for orders over $125.00 but adds a surcharge for heavy seeds of $.40/lb. Fedco has, far and away, the very best prices and discounts offering 20% for orders over $300.00 and 15% for orders over $200 cash, check or charge. Plus they give a 2% early bird discount. Consider this sample order. All quantities are the same with the exception of Big Beef (I had to do some averaging here because Stokes sells it by the 1000 count, Fedco by the gram and Johnny's by fractions of an ounce. For Stokes I used 2.23 X $10.83 (assuming 9000 seeds/ounce) for Johnny's I used their 1/4 ounce listed price. For Fedco I doubled their 4 gram price and multiplied that by .25/.282--8 gms=.282 ounce)). All varities are the same with the exception of fortex pole beans. Stokes does not carry them so I used emerite which seems comparable. The sample order consists of: Provider beans 5 lbs Fortex beans 2 lbs Marketmore 76 Cucumbers 1 ounce Sugar Ann Peas 1 pound Big Beef tomato 1/4 ounce equivalent and assumes that the total order would exceed $300.00 for Fedco and $125.00 for Johnny's. The total prices are: Stokes: 80.75 Johnny's: 83.45 Fedco: 52.00 (this includes the 2% early bird discount) This is not a good sample order for Johnny's because it includes a lot of heavy seed with the 40 cent/lb surcharge. Add Almira and Suhyo long cucs, walla walla onions and Sugar Snap peas to the above orders and Johnny's comes in at $109.75 and Fedco at $71.58 (order over $300.00 but no 2% early bird). Stokes does not carry these varities. I did not consider really large orders because I can't see myself ordering them but even the larger quantities seem to follow the same pattern: Johnny's and Stokes being roughly the same price while Fedco comes in much cheaper (always assuming a total order of at least $200.00 and preferably $300.00) . For example, 50 lbs of Provider Beans: Stokes $1.70/lb (does not include shipping which is only 3.75) Johnny's $2.25 (includes .40 shipping charge and takes into account 5% discount) Fedco $1.40/lb ($300+ order, early bird discount). one pound of Black Seeded Simpson might give a better idea of most prices because Johnny's would not charge a surcharge for weight: Stokes 16.65 (no discount) Johnny's 14.34 (with 5% discount) Fedco 10.00 (no discount) Fedco 7.80 ($300+ order, EBD) Fedco 8.30 ($200+ order, EBD) Stokes best price for Provider (if you are willing to buy 1000 pounds) is 1.22 or 1.15 (if your total order is over $2000), Fedco's is $1.33 (total order $1000.00, 2% EB discount), $2.25 is Johnny's best price according to their catalog but maybe they might give an additional discount for a very large order. Johnny's does much better in comparison to Stokes if you are not buying heavy seed. That $.40/lb weight charge really adds up and it is charged for beans, peas and corn. My sample orders are not complete orders by any means but any you you look at it Fedco's prices are significantly better than Stokes or Johnny's (unless you happen to need 1000 pounds of beans or comparable quantities of other seeds). Like I said earlier I placed an order with Fedco and it came without problems. They are very up front in their catalog about their company. They offer fewer services (no telephone orders, no pictures in their catalog etc...) in exchange for a better price which is fine for me. To save 35% I am willing to slog through their catalog and put in an hour or more filling out their order form. But I wonder if that is the only difference. Has anyone had any problems with them or their seeds? Is anyone out there a devotee of Stokes or Johnny's? Do they provide such better service that it's worth the price? I love Johnny's catalog and I have ordered from them (tools) and plan to order again. They carry many items that Fedco doesn't but I honestly can't see any reason to order from them in large quantities or from Stokes at all. What say you? Sorry for the long post. I tend to run things into the ground. Sasha From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:25:57 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18397 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:25:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22752 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:20:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25478; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:19:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25348 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:17:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp233.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.233]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA30841 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:17:38 -0500 Message-ID: <36E8A45A.F7B3025B@greatbridge.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:21:30 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Aria & Tyria Cucs: Worth the price? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 Hi all I just got Johhny's commercial catalog and they have two varities of Cucumbers with knock your socks off prices. Aria: at roughly 50 cents per seed and Tyria at roughly 70 cents per seed. They also list Amira which is another "Beit Alpha" cucumber but much more reasonable; 1 ounce is $8.75 which comes to less than 1 cent per seed. Has anyone tried these? Are they really that wonderful? are Aria and Tyria noticeably better than Amira? I realize that one cucumber plant can produce a lot of cucumbers and even 50 or 70 cents probably won't add even a nickle to each cucubmer but you can't get 100% germination and any plant can die. It seems like an incredible price to me but I'm thinking of at least trying one. I would dearly like to hear from someone who has grown one of these varities thanks sasha From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 17:36:25 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21711 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09890 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24897; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:29:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24839 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:28:20 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dUILa18360 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:26:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9a6b9d0f.36eae606@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:26:14 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: "Pick-up Pointers" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 I've never gotten anywhere with rules but everybody has expressed appreciation for their "helpful hints". Go figure. ;-) Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 18:43:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22506 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:43:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24739 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:36:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA27418; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:34:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27327 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:33:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool013-max12.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.3.213]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA27205 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:33:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990313152553.00807520@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:25:53 -0800 To: From: Fred Chambers Subject: Seeking Boise, ID - BD/CSA/Market Garden In-Reply-To: <199903131757.LAA12321@firefly.prairienet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Hi y'all, I know I'm not supposed to do this, but can anyone recommend a petrochemical-free genetic-engineering-free farm in Idaho? More specifically, a farm near Boise? I need to find a supplier for a blind conference in mid-April. A lot of my friends who are blind are becoming much more health conscious, and they asked me to help hook them up with a local farmer. I requested a list by mail, but it hasn't arrived. We need to know how much to budget for the food, and what to plan on eating. Thanks, Fred FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 13 19:59:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA23163 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:59:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA13074 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:53:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01787; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:52:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01727 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:52:03 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dAFVa26924 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:51:19 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:51:19 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Baby Pictures Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 The list of today's scans is located at http://www.agrove.com/031399.html Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 22:51:34 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25331 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21030 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:45:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08758; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:44:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from whidbey.whidbey.com (ns.whidbey.com [204.94.52.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08672 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:43:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from [204.94.52.145] (b2-53-147.whidbey.com [204.94.53.147]) by whidbey.whidbey.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23171 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:40:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:40:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: To: From: Petersons family Subject: Rules, pick-up pointers Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 Below are the rules I send out with my letter and sign-up slips in February. These evolved over 5 years of CSA -subscription type. Since we both work other jobs, one on the mainland, we can't deal with people who don't show up for their veggies and want to come at odd times. So far only one person has been offended when I didn't offer to refund her $ or give her extra vegetables for a day she forgot to pick up. The baskets don't always come back each week, and I know several are sitting at one member's home this winter - but so far it's been better for me to not sweat the small stuff, and keep a few extra baskets around. If everyone flakes, I put the veggies in paper bags until I get my baskets back. They get the message. I'm interested in how other CSA's rules work. MOLLY'S ISLAND GARDEN Here's how it works: By reserving a share you are committed to, and assured of, a whole season of fresh vegetables. Your basket will include a selection of those vegetables maturing each week. We try to include a variety and will share bounty with you if something is producing especially well. At the beginning of the season you choose which day each week you will pick up your vegetables: Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday. Long season available only on Saturday. This allows us to plan our picking for a known number of shares on each harvest day. You appear during the scheduled time period to take away your basket of food. You bring the empty basket back the next week and pick up the new full basket. If you can't come at the scheduled time, arrange for someone else (a friend, relative, neighbor) to pick up your vegetables. If you go on vacation arrange for someone else to pick up your vegetables . On the rare occasion you need to change days, call at least 24 hours ahead. It's important to come at the scheduled time so that your vegetables are at their peak. They wilt quickly on hot summer days. If you don't pick up the produce you ordered, I take it (the next morning when I go to my other job) to the low-income senior housing building where I work, and put it on the "free table." The vegetables disappear rapidly and the seniors are very appreciative of your donation. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 14:14:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16125 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:14:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA11626 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA09427; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:07:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09337 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:06:23 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dXYCa13170 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:03:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:03:51 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: New Farm Map Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 I did it! In between scrubbing these winter-grunged floors and playing with the new kids on their first day outside, I've finished the 1999 farm map and posted it on the website: http://www.agrove.com/99map01.html The details for each planting block (14 4'x50' raised beds in each) are at the pages corresponding to the block code, for instance 99mapA1.html 99mapD3.html Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 16:19:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA19682 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09439 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:13:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15493; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:12:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15426 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:11:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp168.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.168]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22424 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:11:27 -0500 Message-ID: <36EC26CD.CC30151D@greatbridge.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:14:54 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: In search of a Mentor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 Hello The though occured to me, that it would be incredibly helpful to get some first hand info from people who are actually doing now what I hope to be doing soon which is to have a small, organic CSA/market garden. So, is there anyone within, say, a four hour drive from Hampton Roads, Virginia that would be willing to have me (and probably my two kids) over for a day? Sort of show us what your doing and how. I would even go as far as eight hours if I can't find someone closer. I live in Chesapeake which is in the extreme southeast corner of Virginia; go ten miles east and you hit the Atlantic Ocean, 7 miles south is the border of North Carolina. If you think you might be able to host us but want to know more about me, drop an email. If anyone is looking to start an organic farm but isn't sure where, I feel that this area has a lot to recommend itself and would be happy to give you more info. thanks sasha sasha From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 16:27:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA19912 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA10850 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:19:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15988; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:18:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15942 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:18:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp168.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.168]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22607 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:18:25 -0500 Message-ID: <36EC2873.7A3F97B3@greatbridge.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:21:55 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Bats? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 hello, I have noticedt that several catalogs offer bat houses for sale but no one offers bats. Why not? If bats are that great, why not sell them like bees along with the bat house. Will they not stay? Also, are bats subsceptible to rabies? One time a bat got stuck in between the screen and my kitchen window. I can't say I was very happy about this. I finally nagged my husband into prying off the screen enough so it could leave. It didn't. After about two days we called the SPCA and they came and got it. The guy who came said it was probably sick or something. If they will cut down the mosquito population I am willing to get over my squeamishness but if they carry rabies or other disease, I don't want them around. sasha From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 22:04:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29898 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28110 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:58:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA03763; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:57:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03689 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:56:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29839; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06545; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:56:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:56:24 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Ben and Sasha Goldberg cc: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: In search of a Mentor In-Reply-To: <36EC26CD.CC30151D@greatbridge.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Ben and Sasha Goldberg wrote: > The though occured to me, that it would be incredibly helpful to get > some first hand info from people who are actually doing now what I hope > to be doing soon which is to have a small, organic CSA/market garden. > So, is there anyone within, say, a four hour drive from Hampton Roads, > Virginia that would be willing to have me (and probably my two kids) > over for a day? Sort of show us what your doing and how. I would even > go as far as eight hours if I can't find someone closer. I live in > Chesapeake which is in the extreme southeast corner of Virginia; go ten > miles east and you hit the Atlantic Ocean, 7 miles south is the border > of North Carolina. Thought this farm might be out of range for you this is still a good CSA contact in this region of the US: Harvey Harmon Sustenance Farm Walk Softly CSA Bear Creek, NC (about 40 miles West of Raleigh NC) 1-919-837-5805 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 14 23:17:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA02049 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01145 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:11:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA07588; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07521 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:10:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21331; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:10:10 -0800 (PST) From: Eliza Lindsay To: Ben and Sasha Goldberg cc: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Subject: Re: Seed companies:ethics in buying In-Reply-To: <36E98746.BF478054@greatbridge.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 Actually, I like Fedco and I like their philosophy but I have sometimes gotten far fewer seed than I was told I'd get. This is sometimes true of other places as well, fwiw. They also don't carry many of the flower varieties I want. :-) eliza From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 09:22:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17175 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22038 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27179; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:13:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27081 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:12:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903151412.IAA27081@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 168845787; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:12:22 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , Subject: Re: Bats? Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:53:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 My understanding of bats (admittedly not technical) is that they are clean and not particularly prone to rabies or other diseases. They DO eat tons of mosquitoes and will come to your bat house, if properly sited and constructed, of their own accord (though it may take some months for them to find you). Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: Bats? > Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 4:21 PM > > hello, > > I have noticedt that several catalogs offer bat houses for sale but no > one offers bats. Why not? If bats are that great, why not sell them > like bees along with the bat house. Will they not stay? Also, are bats > subsceptible to rabies? One time a bat got stuck in between the screen > and my kitchen window. I can't say I was very happy about this. I > finally nagged my husband into prying off the screen enough so it could > leave. It didn't. After about two days we called the SPCA and they > came and got it. The guy who came said it was probably sick or > something. If they will cut down the mosquito population I am willing > to get over my squeamishness but if they carry rabies or other disease, > I don't want them around. > > sasha > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 09:25:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17274 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:25:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22696 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:19:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27485; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:18:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from waddle.excite.com (waddle-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.222]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27362 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:17:14 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from scorch.excite.com ([199.172.152.240]) by waddle.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990315141645.QPAV16648.waddle@scorch.excite.com> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:16:45 -0800 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Bats? Message-Id: <921507405.12549.361@excite.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:16:45 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.151 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 Bats are wonderful animals. North america's only flying mammal. They eat their weight in mosquitos every night (moths too). There are only 7 species of bats in the US. The eastern brown Bat is the most common east of the rockies. They do not sell bats with bathouses because most are endangered and besides they are delicate mammals that would probably die if they had to be shipped. Yes they can carry rabies but this is not common. If you see a bat flying during the day it is most likely a young male that just got kicked out of the nest and is dazed and confused and not a rabid aniamal. Leave him be so he can find a new home (maybe a bat box). Bat Boxes are good for attracting bats but bats will not move right in. It takes them about 2 years to get used to the idea of a bat box but once they do get used to it they will use it. Old barns and shag bark hickorys will also attract bats. One of my favorite passtimes is sitting out back after a long hot day in the gardens and watch the bats come out at dusk. They are wonderful fliers. Sasha, get some bat boxes but don't expect them the first couple of years. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 15 13:13:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26482 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:13:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24745 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:07:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13521; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:03:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13445 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:03:14 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dPXMa20330 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:02:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9c1f74d8.36ed4b38@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:02:32 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bats? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 If it makes you feel better, call them "Night Swallows". We encourage them here. My Ex used to catch them in Pyrex jars so we could look at them close-up before releasing them outside. At the time we were living in a 200-year-old former stagecoach stop at the head of a 50-acre beaver lake. Having bats in the crawlspace above our second story apartment only became a problem because the new owners didn't clean it out when the bats moved out for the winter, and the guano accumulation became a health hazard for us after a couple of years. I sweep out my hayloft twice a year and designed my barn for easy access for bats and swallows, plus I've mounted bat houses in the upper sections of the lean-to on the west and north sides of the barn. PS -- they're ugly little critters but fascinating. PPS -- young CSA visitors at our bonfire/stargazing parties seem to be much more comfortable with "night swallows" than they would be with "bats". Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 06:46:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27566 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA20922 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:40:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10325; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:39:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from stinger.excite.com (stinger-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10278 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:38:31 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from canyon.excite.com ([199.172.152.178]) by stinger.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990316113801.FWZF11158.stinger@canyon.excite.com>; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:38:01 -0800 To: BRateaver@aol.com, CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Message-Id: <921584280.14169.320@excite.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:38:00 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.212 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 The reason I don't want to do delivery is a CSA is supposed to get folks back in touch with the land and the farm. If you deliver to them they will not come to farm at all. Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? I make most of my money doing markets and selling to co-ops. I do the CSA to try and educate. Yes, I have probably made it sound like a hassle and it is and most likely will be for a few more years as we and our members get used to this idea. We do not depend on members for real work , though we actually have 2 folks that have a lot of proffessional garden exp. but the rest do not and I realize what we are working a bunch of folks that probably do not even realize that seeds will produce plants. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 07:37:23 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA28585 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:37:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA29664 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA11917; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:30:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11850 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:29:28 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dUPTa18651 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:28:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:28:55 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 In a message dated 3/16/99 6:40:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, goodows@excite.com writes: << If you deliver to them they will not come to farm at all. Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? >> I figure that any connection is better than no connection, so I deliver to drop sites and include "newsletter" sheets with pictures, offer extra perks to those members who do come to the farm ("picked fresh while you wait", for instance). But my days of door-to-door delivery are done, I just don't have time for that. Building the connection can take quite a while. Human beings are naturally resistant to change, and back in the days of the ice ages that was A Good Thing -- it's why our ancestors learned to master fire and sew animal skins together to survive and ultimately produce us. When I remember to remember this, I don't have as much impatience with this tendency as I otherwise might, though it's still amazing to me just how thick some people can be. Life has been much easier for me since I decided that nobody needs fixing; "The beauty of the flower is sufficient unto itself." Heck, for some people just eating vegetables is a new adventure. I haven't had the favorable response I expected from the local Vegetarian Society, for instance, whose members seem to strongly resent my suggestion last year that if they're doing vegetarianism for their health but they're still ingesting pesticides and other poisons they aren't doing themselves any big favors. Seemed like an obvious and innocent enough statement to me. Like I said, thick. So any baby step in the Informed direction is a step in the right direction and I'll count each one as a success. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 08:40:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA00585 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:40:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA11835 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:34:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14557; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:32:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14444 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:31:22 -0600 (CST) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D5T8SLUD; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:31:02 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:25:57 -0500 Subject: Monsanto on NPR All things Considered tonight (3/16) at 5pm Message-ID: <19990316.082611.-431763.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Be sure and catch this one folks....Monsanto is going to explain how they wanted to 'end world hunger' and wound up becoming 'public enemy #1'. (the quotes are from NPR's teaser.) Happy Growing, Betsy Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 09:43:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01703 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:43:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24441 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:37:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18658; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:35:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18575; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:34:35 -0600 (CST) From: ChilcoteR@aol.com Received: from ChilcoteR@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 2BCa029811; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:22:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:22:52 EST To: mesa@hooked.net, csa-l@prairienet.org, csa-1@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Lauren, the CSA bounces back--could you forward this message? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 Please post the following on your list serve immediately. We wish to fill this position immediatley. ________ Farmer-Manager Position Laganza Farm is seeking an experienced farmer familiar with organic and preferably biodynamic methods to farm and further develop an existing 20-acre organic orchard and farm. Work can begin immediately. The farmer would also be involved in working with and servicing a CSA through networking in the nearby Temecula and Laguna Beach communities. Laganza farm, established in l989 and located in Aguanga in southern Riverside County, is CCOF and Demeter organic-certified; and in process of full demeter biodynamic certification. Some ll00 trees (more than 20 varieties of apple plus peach, pear, almond and cherry) and several hundred grape vines comprise the farm; a small vegetable garden with plans for expansion; and a one-acre field for vegetables with possibilities of expansion as well, and the orchard could also be expanded. The farm is a demonstration site and field station for the EOS Institute and Permaculture Institute of Southern California which conduct workshops in accordance with the implementation of their comprehensive permaculture plan which envisages an expanded vegetable and herb farming, and other projects. Two to four interns or apprendices are expected to work during the season. Housing is available on site, funds for food and living and for some farm investment are available through outside grants, but the livelihood of the farmer will ultimately be dependent on his/ her production and marketing through a CSA and existing wholesale and farmers markets. An application letter, resume of experience, and at least two references should be mailed to , Laganza Farm, c/o Eos Institute, Laguna Beach CA 92652. For more information call 949-497-2218 or 949-497-4401. We desire to fill this position immediately. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 10:02:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02059 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA27977 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:56:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20221; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:54:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20151 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:54:15 -0600 (CST) From: sbonney@iquest.net Received: (qmail 11651 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 14:54:14 -0000 Received: from laf-0000-16.iquest.net (HELO default) (204.95.254.176) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 14:54:14 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316100321.00a1c700@iquest.net> X-Sender: sbonney@iquest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:03:21 -0500 To: "CSA List" Subject: Solviva Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 I have just returned from the Ohio Ecological Food and Farming Association's annual conference where Anna Edey was a keynote speaker and workshop presenter. Wow! Her book, Solviva: How to Grow $500,000 on One Acre and Peace on Earth is fabulous and covers many of the subjects we often discuss: permaculture, wastewater management, greenhouse design, sustainable food production, energy capture, etc. Surprisingly, she doesn't incorporate fish into her system. There is plenty of brain food here, however, and presents opportunities for a four season CSA ion cold climates. Steve Steve Bonney, President Sustainable Earth a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through sustainable agriculture 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 11:30:57 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04574 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:30:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19774 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:25:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA27094; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:22:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from ic4.ithaca.edu (ic4.ithaca.edu [147.129.1.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27003 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:21:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from ithaca.edu (ic069163.ithaca.edu [147.129.69.163]) by ic4.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #30132) with ESMTP id <01J8W9UJJ43E001LQL@ic4.ithaca.edu> for CSA-L@prairienet.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:20:43 EST Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:23:03 -0500 From: Debbie Teeter Subject: Re: Delivering to Shareholders vs. Farm Pick-up, working shareholders To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Message-id: <36EE8567.84DF30E3@ithaca.edu> Organization: Ithaca College MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <921584280.14169.320@excite.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 We're lucky in that many of our shareholders live close enough to the farm that they prefer to pick-up here. We deliver to a downtown pick-up point for those who would find required farm pick-up a hardship. As an added incentive, we give a minimal discount ($10 for the season) to those who pick-up on the farm (on farm pick-ups are much easier for us, plus we save gas/wear & tear on the vehicle, so well worth discount). We are available at both pick-ups, so we get the same interaction with all shareholders. >From talking to other farmers, I gather many are quite a distance from their shareholders, and they really need to be delivering to strategic drop off points. This year we're trying something new - we're offering home delivery within a 5 mile radius of the farm or downtown for an additional $25 for the season. We just sort of pulled this figure out of the air, not really having much to base it on. This is something we've resisted, as we think the weekly contact at deliveries is very important, BUT, over the years (this is our 7th season), we've seen that for some folks the pick-ups can a real hardship. So far we've only had two folks sign-up for delivery, both long term shareholders - one with a chronic debilitating illness (& she only wants it delivered when she doesn't show up) and the other an older single woman who frequently works late and therefore misses the delivery. So at this point, it looks like this is a service that is really helpful for shareholders - at least for us. Also, both these folks live only a few blocks from the downtown delivery location. Our shareholders are not required to work, but receive a discount if the do. About 90% of our shareholders work, some for the enjoyment of the experience, others to reduce their costs. Our experience has been very good. We work WITH shareholders, ususally in teams of 2 or 4, showing them exactly what to do and keeping an eye on them in the beginning to correct any errors. They very quickly become adept at the task at hand, and are proud of their new skills and seem genuinely pleased when we hook them up with a newcomer & sort of put them "in charge" of that 2 person team. Over the years we've tried numerous strategies for scheduling workers. We started out with the start-of-the-year-rigid-schedule thing and it was a complete failure. Work times would roll around, it'd be raining, people had forgotten, what was sheduled to be done neded to be done a couple of days earlier, OR something WE wanted to do instead came up. What we do now is this: For work before deliveries start, we get on the phone not more than a week ahead and call a few shareholders, and that's all it usually takes to get the help we need when we want it, tell them what we need help with and when. After the season starts we do it by the week On farm and downtown folks pick-up on different days, so we can be very accurate about when we need help and for what. We add a notaion on our "What's in the Bag this Week" board what we're doing and when (in case it's a little hectic), then we ask working shareholders if the can make it. We have no problem with no shows, people call if it turns out they can't make it, and since you pretty much know what the weather's going to be like there are few weather problems. This works for us. In contrast to Dori's "potato nightmare", last spring we planted 500 pounds of potatoes and weeded and mulched the blueberries in one four hour work session with the help of 5 shareholders. The first two arrived, I sat with them in the shade of some sapings lining the garden and we began cutting up potatoes as Alan ran the tiller down the field with the hiller attachment. When we had a 5 gallon bucket ready, he started planting. Shortly thereafter another shareholder arrived, we had another 5 gallon bucket ready, so one of the cutters moved to planting with Alan and the new arrival started cutting (these 3 were all new working shareholders). A little while later the last two arrived, I left my by-now competent cutters to finish the task at hand, took the new comers (both returning working shareholders from the year before) to the blueberrries, showed them the plants, put one on one end of the row, the other a third of the way down, and me 2/3's down, and we all worked in the same direction. When we finished weeding, we went and shoveled mulch into the lawn tractor's tow-behind trailer, I drove it to the berry bushes, and we all shoveled them out. We made quite a few trips like this. Then we put tomato cages around the plants and were done. In the meantime, the cutters got ahead of the planters, so Alan took another one into the field, got them planting (which was just dropping the chunks into the trench at the desired spacing), let the planters continue while he finished tilling the trenches needed. By the time he was down with that, the cutter was done and moved to planting, with able direction from the two other planters. Alan starting covering the planted tomatoes. When the planters were done, Alan showed them how to cover, and with four people doing it the job was completed in no time. And, believe it or not, that is our typical working shareholder experience. Other things we do is have a "shareholder area" in our garage (it's a big garage), with tools, 5 gallon buckets, gloves and a sign-in sheet. We tell shareholders to come dressed appropriately, wear a hat and bring gloves if they have them. When they arrive, we start in that area, give them a little orientation if they're new, talk about what we're doing that day and decide what tools we need. Typically everybody gets a 5 gallon bucket, puts their preferred hand tools in it, and whatever else we might need (baling twine, drinking cups, etc) and out we go. The buckets are handy for lots of things in the garden: weeding into, hauling mulch, and make moving around with all your stuff easier. We ALWAYS provide a big insulated cooler of ice water or herbal caffine-free iced tea (usually the latter) and encourage folks to take drink breaks - we take them too! Finally, we have an outdoor wash stand for folks to clean up when they're finished (they're welcome to use our bathroom, too) the area is an old sink mounted on a scrap lumber frame draining into a 5 gallon bucket with the hose attached to the facet - very low-tech. One last thing: we encourage children in and around the garden. If they want to work, fine, if they want to play, that's okay too. Our experience is they do very little damage. If we have a child who's a little overactive and/or really needs to be physically close to their parents, we find a task that needs to be done on or near the edge of the garden. Our garden plots are mowed lawn on most sides. Whew! Hope folks find some of this helpful! Debbie Teeter A.J. Teeter Farm Ithaca NY goodows@excite.com wrote: > The reason I don't want to do delivery is a CSA is supposed to get folks > back in touch with the land and the farm. If you deliver to them they will > not come to farm at all. Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? > I make most of my money doing markets and selling to co-ops. I do the CSA to > try and educate. Yes, I have probably made it sound like a hassle and it is > and most likely will be for a few more years as we and our members get used > to this idea. > We do not depend on members for real work , though we actually have 2 folks > that have a lot of proffessional garden exp. but the rest do not and I > realize what we are working a bunch of folks that probably do not even > realize that seeds will produce plants. > Lucy Goodman-Owsley > Boulder Belt CSA > New Paris, OH > http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 12:13:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05452 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00854 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:07:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00385; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:05:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00307 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:04:56 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dZOIa18651 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:49:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <943a7499.36ee8b98@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:49:28 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 << Why do a CSA if people won't come to "their" farm? I make most of my money doing markets and selling to co-ops. I do the CSA to try and educate. >> Nice thread, loaded with many truths. As a parent with three school-age kids (6,8,&10) I don't have much extra time and patience to reach out to reluctant adults. It is imperative that my children "get it." I must develop a different approach for each as they are strongly individualistic. So I am in training to diversify my approach and recognize when I am offending people by the simple truths I've come to know. I used to be defensive when people would challenge my pricing at the market or complain of a flea beetle hole in their salad mix. But I've learned that these are really opportunities for the complainer to learn if I can phrase a response that informs them without insulting their values. We only have on farm pick up. CSA members and their families are rewarded for coming to the farm with u-pick opportunities for straw berries, blue berries, raspberries, etc. You know, those labor intensive fruits and extras we can't pick for the whole CSA. The u-picks have to pick some for the CSA as trade because we do have a number of people who are physically unable to collect their own. Yet these are the ones who come by and just sit, breathe deep, listen to the songs of the wind and genuinely "connect." They greet the other members, distract the two-year-olds and give my partner and I advice. Our greatest tool to getting people to the farm is the local Farmer's Market. When customers ask, "How come you don't have much asparagus anymore? Or Why do you run out of salad mix by 11:00am?" We just shrug our shoulders and say that the CSA gets first pick and some extras. This is what is left over this week. Our membership has grown without any other marketing from 20 the first year to 75 this year. The pick ups start in five weeks and we are full. My most favorite organic chemistry professor taught from the perspective of, "I've got a secret, and I hope you are clever enough to discover it for yourself!" Adults love competition. As a farmer, teacher, parent and partner I always reward effort with positive outcomes. Lucy and Dori are both correct. Its just that Dori is a couple of light years ahead of most of us. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 13:09:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07126 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:09:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14126 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:03:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07810; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:00:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from mom.hooked.net (root@mom.hooked.net [206.80.6.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07522 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:59:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from [206.169.227.230] (libya-230.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.230]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA19471; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903161759.JAA19471@mom.hooked.net> Subject: Fabulous Farm Manager position! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 99 10:01:44 -0800 x-sender: mesa@mail.hooked.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: "Lauren E. Augusta" To: "CSA member list" , "BDA" , "Sustag" , "Northeast Food Systems" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 ________ Farmer-Manager Position in So. California--- Laganza Farm is seeking an experienced farmer familiar with organic and preferably biodynamic methods to farm and further develop an existing 20-acre organic orchard and farm. Work can begin immediately. The farmer would also be involved in working with and servicing a CSA through networking in the nearby Temecula and Laguna Beach communities. Laganza farm, established in l989 and located in Aguanga in southern Riverside County, is CCOF and Demeter organic-certified; and in process of full demeter biodynamic certification. Some ll00 trees (more than 20 varieties of apple plus peach, pear, almond and cherry) and several hundred grape vines comprise the farm; a small vegetable garden with plans for expansion; and a one-acre field for vegetables with possibilities of expansion as well, and the orchard could also be expanded. The farm is a demonstration site and field station for the EOS Institute and Permaculture Institute of Southern California which conduct workshops in accordance with the implementation of their comprehensive permaculture plan which envisages an expanded vegetable and herb farming, and other projects. Two to four interns or apprendices are expected to work during the season. Housing is available on site, funds for food and living and for some farm investment are available through outside grants, but the livelihood of the farmer will ultimately be dependent on his/ her production and marketing through a CSA and existing wholesale and farmers markets. An application letter, resume of experience, and at least two references should be mailed to: Laganza Farm, c/o Eos Institute, Laguna Beach CA 92652. For more information call 949-497-2218 or 949-497-4401. We desire to fill this position immediately. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 16:27:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12770 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03880 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:21:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA26275; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:19:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25312 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:12:56 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dHYa016736 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:55:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8744e375.36eec554@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:55:48 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 In a message dated 3/16/99 12:06:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCook21809@aol.com writes: << Lucy and Dori are both correct. Its just that Dori is a couple of light years ahead of most of us. >> Say WHAT???? I'm just grubbing in the dirt like everybody else. Dori From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 17:59:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16249 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA00222 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:53:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02435; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:41:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com ([209.5.212.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02316 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:40:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp45.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.45]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA02584 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:40:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316173918.00854bb0@vaxxine.com> X-Sender: laura_s@vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:39:18 -0500 To: "CSA List" From: Laura Sabourin Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990316100321.00a1c700@iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Did you buy the book ? Does it have substance ? How much was it ? and where can one purchase it ? >workshop presenter. Wow! Her book, Solviva: How to Grow $500,000 on One >Acre and Peace on Earth is fabulous and covers many of the subjects we >often discuss: permaculture, wastewater management, greenhouse design, >sustainable food production, energy capture, etc. Surprisingly, she >doesn't incorporate fish into her system. There is plenty of brain food >here, however, and presents opportunities for a four season CSA ion cold >climates. >Steve >Steve Bonney, President >Sustainable Earth >a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through >sustainable agriculture >100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 >tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > > > Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net/ragenesq.htm R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 21:52:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21538 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:52:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29484 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA19710; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:40:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19605 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:39:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04532; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:39:09 -0700 Received: from localhost (egbelsey@localhost) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA180376; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:39:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:39:05 -0700 (MST) From: Eric Belsey To: B H cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Monsanto on NPR All things Considered tonight (3/16) at 5pm In-Reply-To: <19990316.082611.-431763.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 I was very disappointed by this piece... It seems NPR is permanently in the corner of AgBIZ. Shapiro was represented as a hunger activist which is absurd. Again, the general gist to me was, why are silly activists oopposing this wonderful new thing? The NPR reporter said that the European opposition to biotech crops "came out of nowhere last year" This too is a misrepresentation of the depth and length of our struggle against biotech crops. They also blamed the destruction of the Indian BT cotton crops by activists as "fear of the terminator technology," with no discussion of other reasons informed people oppose biotech crops. There was maybe one sentence where they listed some of the silly ideas that people who oppose this, like a English barber (an uneducated rube to be certain) Why not have some of the numerous scientists on to explain why Monsanto is considered a corporate criminal? SHOW WHAT YOU THINK OF NPR ON THIS AND THEIR COMPLICITY IN THE SILENCING OF MUMIA-ABU JAMAL AT PLEDGE TIME!!!! GIVE MONEY TO YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY RADIO AND PIRATE RADIO INSTEAD! peace--- EGB On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, B H wrote: > Be sure and catch this one folks....Monsanto is going to explain how they > wanted to 'end world hunger' and wound up becoming 'public enemy #1'. > (the quotes are from NPR's teaser.) > > Happy Growing, Betsy > Betsy Hultin > Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee > http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 > Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 16 22:14:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21870 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:14:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA05504 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:08:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA20637; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:56:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA20576 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:56:16 -0600 (CST) From: sbonney@iquest.net Received: (qmail 12504 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1999 02:56:12 -0000 Received: from laf-0000-26.iquest.net (HELO default) (204.95.254.186) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 1999 02:56:12 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316220521.00a1a340@iquest.net> X-Sender: sbonney@iquest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:05:21 -0500 To: "CSA List" Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990316173918.00854bb0@vaxxine.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990316100321.00a1c700@iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller scales of the model could be adapted. I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net Best, Steve Steve Bonney, President Sustainable Earth a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through sustainable agriculture 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 00:22:55 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA24296 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:22:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA01970 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA28913; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:02:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28814 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:01:45 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dXNAa10819 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:55:34 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:55:34 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Solviva Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 I've been obsessing over Solviva since I read it this winter. I got my copy from amason.com. The only criticism I have for the book is that the well designed systems require significant capital outlay. Much more than the average organic farmer could scrape together. But if a farmer is going to accumulate debt, this is the only debt that makes environmental and economical sense. It is a must read book! We must look to the stars to find the light. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 03:19:53 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA26018 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 03:19:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA03814 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 03:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA06989; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:11:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06918 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:10:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA11231; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:10:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:10:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: sbonney@iquest.net cc: CSA List Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990316220521.00a1a340@iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't > want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a > 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, > wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also > includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. > She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed > $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the > potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller > scales of the model could be adapted. > I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered > directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net > Best, > Steve > Steve Bonney, President > Sustainable Earth > a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through > sustainable agriculture > 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 > tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 08:17:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29297 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:17:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA29510 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:11:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA13894; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:09:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13814 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:07:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp138.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.138]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11378 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:08:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990317080710.0084e100@vaxxine.com> X-Sender: laura_s@vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:07:10 -0500 To: From: Laura Sabourin Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990316220521.00a1a340@iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Dpes anyone know how much the book costs ? One good idea could make it worthwhile At 12:10 AM 3/17/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I >would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is >a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. >Michelle > >Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, >27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > > > > > >On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > >> I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't >> want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a >> 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, >> wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also >> includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. >> She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed >> $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the >> potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller >> scales of the model could be adapted. >> I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered >> directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net >> Best, >> Steve >> Steve Bonney, President >> Sustainable Earth >> a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through >> sustainable agriculture >> 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 >> tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net >> > > > Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net/ragenesq.htm R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:17:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00232 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:17:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13979 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:11:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA17024; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:08:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16967 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:08:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.217] [198.69.131.217] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A8371DE0098; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:12:07 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:12:09 -0500 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Leigh Hauter Subject: NPR and monsanto Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 I second Eric's comments about NPR and Monsanto. The nightly news vehicle, All Things Considered, should be looked at as the offical voice of state and corporate interests. We shouldn't expect anything else. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:34:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00534 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:34:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA19334 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:29:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18324; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:27:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail2.real.on.ca (mail2.real.on.ca [209.167.186.129]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18268 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:27:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from london.skyscape.net (pppD13.mco.net [209.167.186.33]) by mail2.real.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01520; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:26:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gelliott@london.skyscape.net) Message-ID: <36EFB9DA.600BD1EB@london.skyscape.net> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:19:06 -0500 From: Gary Elliott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michelle Y. Crawford" CC: sbonney@iquest.net, CSA List Subject: Re: Solviva References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 Michelle Might I gently suggest that what Anna Edey is doing is real life, her take on it. You say farming is a hard living, it is how you design it. I can use a spoon to weed my garden, or a hoe, or use a mulch. The amount of work I do, and the money I make, are determined, to a great extent, by my decisions. I see many workers, in farming and other businesses, who expand their work and their plan to the amount of time they allow for it. As for her book being misleading, please expand upon this. Regards Gary Elliott Sylvan Organic Farm Parkhill, Ontario "Michelle Y. Crawford" wrote: > I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I > would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is > a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. > Michelle > > Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, > 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > > > I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't > > want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a > > 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, > > wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also > > includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. > > She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed > > $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the > > potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller > > scales of the model could be adapted. > > I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered > > directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net > > Best, > > Steve > > Steve Bonney, President > > Sustainable Earth > > a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through > > sustainable agriculture > > 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 > > tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:49:08 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01043 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23171 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:43:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19309; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:41:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19251 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:41:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.217] [198.69.131.187] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AFEE7800DA; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:45:02 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:45:06 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: no deliveries Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 I was interested in the recent thread on not having deliveries and having only shares for people to come out to the farm, What are your thoughts on pollution and oil consumption? My shareholders live between 15 and 45 miles from the farm. Should each one of these people drive their cars out to the farm or should I drive my truck to them? The later is obviously more fuel effecient and environmentally friendly. The response that we should market our shares locally is a poor answer since there aren't enough people to support our program living within ten miles. Additionally, what of people living in the city? Should they only eat corporate vegetables? I know the solution is urban farming, but because of tax and zoning laws this isn't going to happen anytime soon. enough for this, I have to get out and put up fence. On another subject, does anyone have a good solution for keeping deer away from the vegetables? Last year, each method only worked for a couple weeks before the wilely wood rats figured it out and came after the greens again. Yesterday I saw 14 does in the woods on our drive. That's too many to shoot. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 09:49:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01056 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23311 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:43:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19408; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19364 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from [151.196.116.3] (client-151-196-116-3.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.3]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24366 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:41:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903171441.JAA24366@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:20:52 -0500 Subject: Request: CSA contacts in Switzerland From: "Steven McFadden" To: "CSA-L" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 Hi - A US reporter has contacted me seeking leads to CSA farms in Switzerland. She is planning a trip there in the Autumn, and wants to write something on the subject. If you have any contacts in Switzerland, or promising leads, please let me know by e-mail and I will forward the messages on to her. With thanks, Steven From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 11:47:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04345 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23069 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:41:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA02472; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:39:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from serval.noc.ucla.edu (serval.noc.ucla.edu [169.232.10.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02388 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:38:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from ucla.edu (davidk.biology.ucla.edu [128.97.133.15]) by serval.noc.ucla.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17876 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:38:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EFDB5C.F6CE5B2D@ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:42:05 -0800 From: David King X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA List Subject: How to Purchase the Solviva Book Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 Hi folks.... I wrote to the original poster and got the an email address regarding purchasing this book, here is the response for al who are interested: Dear David -- the Solviva book is available right from me. The fastest is to e-mail (solviva@vineyard.net) or phone in, (508) 693-3341, your Visa or Mastercard info and address, or you can send a check or money order to Anna Edey, RFD 1 Box 582, Vineyard Haven, MA 02568. I'll send it to you promptly upon payment by one method or another. The price is $35 plus $3.20 for mailing, total $38.20. Thanks and best wishes -- Anna Edey Sent as a help to the many who have written in requesting same... In other words, just trying to be helpful... peace & blessings, david From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 13:10:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07179 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:10:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13964 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:04:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09255; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:59:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from cronus.rockisland.com (root@cronus.rockisland.com [199.217.72.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09169 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:59:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from [199.217.72.89] (pm2-89.rockisland.com [199.217.72.89]) by cronus.rockisland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA25002 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:58:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903171758.JAA25002@cronus.rockisland.com> Subject: re NPR Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:52:45 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Lee Sturdivant To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id LAA09171 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 I think it might be a good idea to consider NPR as a medium that introduces a subject to certain segments of the country. Yes, they are becoming more establishment minded, but they also reach most people who are sick of the more commercial media. People we need to reach. Instead of just condemning them, I suggest we contact NPR and let them know how superficially they treated the Monsanto question. Perhaps contact special reporters played on NPR (Sci Fri, Ray Suarez, etc.) and supply them with better information. Their national web site is http://www.npr.org/ Mail Address is NPR 635 Mass. Ave NW Wash DC 200001 Tel 202-414-2000 Fax 202-414-3329 email to All Things considered is atc@npr.org I have found them fairly responsive - especially the local stations, which may be a better place to start. Lee Sturdivant San Juan Naturals Publishers of Bootstrap Guides From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 13:23:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07759 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA17000 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10976; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:15:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10892 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:15:03 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA20828; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:14:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-07.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.39) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020785; Wed Mar 17 12:13:57 1999 Message-ID: <017401be70a1$c0d0af60$55a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "CSA list" , "Leigh Hauter" Subject: Re: no deliveries Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:12:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Leigh wrote: >I was interested in the recent thread on not having deliveries and having >only shares for people to come out to the farm, What are your thoughts on >pollution and oil consumption? >My shareholders live between 15 and 45 miles from the farm. Should each one >of these people drive their cars out to the farm or should I drive my truck >to them? The later is obviously more fuel effecient and environmentally >friendly. The response that we should market our shares locally is a poor >answer since there aren't enough people to support our program living >within ten miles. > >Additionally, what of people living in the city? Should they only eat >corporate vegetables? I know the solution is urban farming, but because of >tax and zoning laws this isn't going to happen anytime soon. > Our farm is pick-up only (I have a but I'll get to in a minute) because thats what works for us. We also live in a town/area that is very suburban(we're a bit of an oasis) large population within 10 miles. There is a CSA in the next town that's biggest membership is closer to the "big" city Boston and they have some sort of delivery drop off sort of thing. Leigh you are right city people should be able to have a farmer connection, but it still would be nice if every one of them came to your farm at least once to actually see were there food comes from (thats just a personal opinion in that I think they'd enjoy it). My But I mentioned above, while I personally won't be delivering I see a potential for groups of members trading pick-up days so that each one only has to drive to the farm every few weeks. I haven't had anyone request this, but I did offer it to someone (a friend of one of my members) who lives about a 1/2 hour away. But a shared pick up still allows everyone to enjoy the farm. There just is not a wrong or right answer nor should their be, but its fun hearing everyones suggestions. Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 13:49:11 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08175 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23265 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13044; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:40:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12960 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:39:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU (holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.76]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA55916 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:39:37 -0700 Received: from holly.colostate.edu (grin-d.NSSL.ColoState.EDU [129.82.189.43]) by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA170246 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:39:36 -0700 Message-ID: <36EFF813.E5185692@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:44:35 -0700 From: Eric Belsey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: re NPR References: <199903171758.JAA25002@cronus.rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 Lee Sturdivant wrote: > > I think it might be a good idea to consider NPR as a medium that > introduces a subject to certain segments of the country. Yes, they are > becoming more establishment minded, but they also reach most people who > are sick of the more commercial media. People we need to reach. Instead > of just condemning them, I suggest we contact NPR and let them know how > superficially they treated the Monsanto question. I respect Lee's very valid viewpoint on being less confrontational regarding NPR, I am just a bit cynical and feel that this route won't change much. In some ways NPR is more insidious than the mainstream media, because at least the mainstream media bows all the time directly to commercial interests without pretending too much that they are doing otherwise. NPR on the other hand plays a tiny violin and wrings out their hankies at pledge time about what an amazing unbiased "public" service they are providing, which is an outright lie. "Public" televison has the same credibility problems. The only public broadcasting I support is local radio (KGNU in Boulder) who doesn't use underwriters to pay the bill, but instead goes the very hard route of listener support. If you want to understand the issues of media self-censorship in service of corporate goals, including a good expose on the "unbiased" McNeil/Lehrer News Hour, and the forgotten US-sponsored genocide in East Timor I can not recommend more highly a film called Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media. to buy a copy, try this website: http://www.aigis.com/wl/orders.html to find the rare rental store that carries it: http://talene.home.texas.net/vid.htm enough on the media, who's farming? peace--- Eric Belsey From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 14:35:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09012 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:35:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05040 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:29:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA17178; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:27:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from xprt.net (root@xprt.net [209.102.124.20]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17092 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:27:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from peter (pdx-ppp73.pop1.net [209.102.125.123]) by xprt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA27908 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:27:20 -0800 Message-ID: <008601be70ac$56e31100$7b7d66d1@peter> From: "xprt" To: Subject: buying books and new CSA Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:28:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some places to buy Solviva, with prices...... http://acses6.acses.com/acsesbin/nph-det8.cgi?isbn=3D3D0966234901&idcode=3D= 3D=3D 54244&c ountry=3D3DUSA The best price is here: http://www.bigwords.com Just trying to be helpful to all. I am a new subscriber to this list.=20 Here in Portland Oregon we are working on buying 80 acres to create a CSA with community links to a specific Portland neighborhood. The land=20 can be reached by bicycle and bus by 20,000 urbanites. We have capital, but not a whole lot of farm experience. If anyone around our area is interested, let me know. And thanks to all = who post here - it's helpful to hear everyone's thoughts. Peter Michaelson ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Some places to buy Solviva, with prices......

http://acses6.acses.com/acsesbin/nph-det8.cgi?isbn=3D3D0= 966234901&idcode=3D3D=3D
54244&c
ountry=3D3DUSA

= The=20 best price is here:
http://www.bigwords.com

Just = trying to=20 be helpful to all.  I am a new subscriber to this list.
Here = in =20 Portland Oregon we are working on buying 80 acres to create a
CSA = with=20 community links to a specific Portland neighborhood.  The land =
can be=20 reached by bicycle and bus by 20,000 urbanites.

We have capital, = but not=20 a whole lot of farm experience.

If anyone around our area is = interested,=20 let me know.  And thanks to all
who post here - it's helpful to = hear=20 everyone's thoughts.

Peter Michaelson
------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE7069.48027470-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 16:52:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12776 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:52:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09703 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:46:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA27253; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:44:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from peak.org (denisont@PEAK.ORG [198.68.22.17]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27188 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:43:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (denisont@localhost) by peak.org (8.8.5/8.6.7) with SMTP id NAA08500 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Denison X-Sender: denisont@kira To: csa Subject: Re: re NPR In-Reply-To: <199903171758.JAA25002@cronus.rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id PAA27190 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 Or better yet, contact NPR and suggest they do a story on the CSA movement in the USA? Elizabeth Kerle Denison Farms Corvallis, OR On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Lee Sturdivant wrote: > I think it might be a good idea to consider NPR as a medium that > introduces a subject to certain segments of the country. Yes, they are > becoming more establishment minded, but they also reach most people who > are sick of the more commercial media. People we need to reach. Instead > of just condemning them, I suggest we contact NPR and let them know how > superficially they treated the Monsanto question. Perhaps contact special > reporters played on NPR (Sci Fri, Ray Suarez, etc.) and supply them with > better information. > Their national web site is http://www.npr.org/ > Mail Address is NPR 635 Mass. Ave NW Wash DC 200001 > Tel 202-414-2000 > Fax 202-414-3329 > email to All Things considered is atc@npr.org > I have found them fairly responsive - especially the local stations, > which may be a better place to start. > Lee Sturdivant > > > > San Juan Naturals Publishers of Bootstrap Guides > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 17:09:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13166 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:09:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14053 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28602; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:02:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28523 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:01:48 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dZBEa04993 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:36 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: no deliveries Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 Wow Leigh, You really live in the country. It makes ecological sense to drive to drop of spots when you live away from your customer base. My comments are for an urban farm with all of the disadvantages of taxes, packs of dogs roaming at night and unsympathetic neighbors who sue us for farming activities. For example, 15% of our gross sales from the CSA go to property taxes alone. So it is happening, it just isn't easy. Different situations call for different solutions. My Grandmother always said, "Everyone goes crazy different." << I know the solution is urban farming, but because of tax and zoning laws this isn't going to happen anytime soon. >> But deer control is as easy as knowing what to feed them. We have a four ft high 5 stran (heavy gauge) electric fence on three sides of our double lot. I bait the fence with peanut butter hanging on hardware cloth from the fence. It has a very strong energizer that charges from 0 to 5,000 volts in 0.4 seconds and is off for a second. It has very low amperage so it cannot harm kids or livestock. But it sure gets everyone's attention when they hit it. The dear take the peanut butter in their mouth and receive an impressive jolt. The fence then becomes a psychological barrier. The deer must think that if the hors d' oeuvres are that bad the main course must be worse. I've seen them pacing along the fence drooling at my sugar snap peas just inside the fence. But they won't come in. Sometimes their fawns will hop through the fence and the parents go postal snorting and pawing their warnings to the little ones. But they don't come in after their offspring. Last summer they started jumping into our front yard where we only have a short cedar fence. That is when we started leaving our dog out at night to chase them and other dogs off the property. We do get a lot more sleep now. Plus the deer eat at our neighbors gardens which improves our business. Good luck, Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 18:05:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14452 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA29767 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:59:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02784; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02708 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:56:40 -0600 (CST) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dGSQa18832 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:51:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8540588c.36f031ea@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:51:22 EST To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Monsanto Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id QAA02709 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 I just read an EXCELLENT article that a friend had saved from the New York Times Magazine. It's a bit dated--October 25, 1998--but very illuminating and thoughtfully written, taking a look at different perspectives (conventional farmers, biotech/genetic engineers, organic farmers, consumers.) The writer's name is Michael Pollan and the title of the feature article is Playing God in the Garden "Monsanto trusts its genetically engineered potato to kill off the Colorado potato beetle. But whether humankind's enduring relationship to food crops is being imperiled by biotechnology is the big question." If anyone cares to search for this in the NYTimes archives, it's definitely worth the read. I'm sharing it with CSA members at our organizers meeting tonight.... —Heidi Lewis From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 20:28:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17681 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:28:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA16390 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:22:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA12633; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:21:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12573 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:20:18 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dGWKa04982 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:17:19 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:17:19 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Deer Control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 My Pyrenees/Maremma LGD (livestock guardian dog) is doing a great job of keeping the deer down on their own side of the hill. The goats have taught him just how to move a ruminant without chasing it -- and taught him at an early age not to chase (all it took was one ornery mom goat with no patience and not much liking for dogs to begin with). My neighbors have warned me that if they ever see him running deer they'll shoot him. Can't say much to that except "Well, if you have to do that please let me know what happened to him." So far everybody's been able to co-exist, and despite having a veritable deer highway in my little valley I've had no trouble. Note that I've left half of the farm as a wildlife refuge and deer highway -- they have their half, I have mine. I also drum in the orchard during the full moon and sing to the deer and remind them that one way or another I need to get a harvest off these fields -- beans and corn or venison, their choice. Didn't get either one of these ideas from Cornell, but for me they seem to be working. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 17 21:42:17 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18990 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:42:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06476 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:36:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16713; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:34:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16634 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:33:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.217] [209.8.149.180] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A6B913B013C; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:36:41 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:36:44 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: Deer Control Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 >My Pyrenees/Maremma LGD (livestock guardian dog) is doing a great job Actually, my Komondor does a fine job of keeping wild dogs, bobcats, foxes and other animals (humans included) away from the goats, chickens, cows, emus (why would anyone have an emu? Because it was given to them), peacocks and house. However keeping the deer out of all the land we're growing veggies on is probably too much to expect of him. Thanks for the idea of baiting the electric fence. I hadn't tried that and will. The fences of different heights or outward slanting fence are great ideas but the cost seems overly prohibitive for the area we're growing veggies on. The idea of meditating or whatever with the poor deer also seems a little too much. Which of the dozens of deer should I meditate with (Flossie, Mildred, Ruth Ann, or possibly Betty)? I am sure some of these deer don't even know each other. Did you know a deer covers about seven miles of country everyday (if that much land is available)? And with last year's drought, our farm must have looked like an oasis in the middle of a parched desert. I understand a deer wanting to eat our vegetables. We grow great vegetables. But, unfortunately, growing enough vegetables for us, our shareholders, and the deer would mean clearing more land, which would mean taking all of that forest food away from the animals that depend on it (you know -squirrels, raccoons, skunks, timber rattlers, etc.). It looks like a no-win situation to me. And from my point-of-view I hope it is the deer that lose. Last season I invited shareholders to come to our place and shoot deer - doe only. But, alas, most city people have lost the taste for venison. And personally, I would much rather eat a young kid (and I do) than a gamey deer. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 02:09:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA24111 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 02:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA05370 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 02:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA01336; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:01:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01261 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:00:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA02266; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:00:29 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:00:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Gary Elliott cc: sbonney@iquest.net, CSA List Subject: Re: Solviva In-Reply-To: <36EFB9DA.600BD1EB@london.skyscape.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 I take your point. Thank you. Always there are better ways to approach things. M Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Gary Elliott wrote: > Michelle > > Might I gently suggest that what Anna Edey is doing is real life, her take on it. > You say farming is a hard living, it is how you design it. I can use a spoon to > weed my garden, or a hoe, or use a mulch. The amount of work I do, and the money I > make, are determined, to a great extent, by my decisions. I see many workers, in > farming and other businesses, who expand their work and their plan to the amount of > time they allow for it. > > As for her book being misleading, please expand upon this. > > Regards > Gary Elliott > Sylvan Organic Farm > Parkhill, Ontario > > "Michelle Y. Crawford" wrote: > > > I have looked at this book and in real life it seems a stretch, but I > > would love to lacking imagination on this point. I enjoy farming but it is > > a hard living, worthwhile, but not easy. I think books like this mislead. > > Michelle > > > > Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, > > 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > > > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 sbonney@iquest.net wrote: > > > > > I didn't mean to leave people hanging about the book, but then I didn't > > > want anyone think I was spamming. The Solviva book features details of a > > > 3000 square foot greenhouse that features intense growing systems, > > > wastewater recycling, energy efficiency, and nutrient recycling. Edey also > > > includes many design plans for a variety of adaptation. > > > She gets year round production on Martha's Vineyard, Mass., Has grossed > > > $6000 per month in the winter, over $50,000 per year, and says the > > > potential production of salad mix from her system is 54,000 lbs. Smaller > > > scales of the model could be adapted. > > > I had my local bookstore order the book for me, but can be ordered > > > directly from the author at solviva@vineyard.net > > > Best, > > > Steve > > > Steve Bonney, President > > > Sustainable Earth > > > a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through > > > sustainable agriculture > > > 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 > > > tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 06:10:28 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA25943 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:10:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA23097 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:04:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA06289; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:58:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from ramses.lu.se (ramses.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06240 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:58:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (luetnfs.etn.lu.se [130.235.150.159]) by ramses.lu.se (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA24514 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:59:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from LUETNFS/SpoolDir by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.21); 18 Mar 99 12:10:01 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUETNFS (Mercury 1.30); 18 Mar 99 12:09:37 +0100 Received: from humecol.lu.se by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.30) with ESMTP; 18 Mar 99 12:09:34 +0100 Message-ID: <36F0DA0A.EEDFAB24@humecol.lu.se> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:48:42 +0100 From: Folke =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: add Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id EAA06241 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 I would like to be added to your mailing list. FG -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Folke Günther +46 (0)46/ 14 14 29 el. +46 (0)46/222 36 98. Kollegievägen 19, 224 73 Lund, Sweden URL: http://www.humecol.lu.se/~folke_g/folkegsv.htm --- Thou Shalt not Cultivate High Power - because Error and Destruction are Its Evil Companions From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 07:09:30 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26509 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:09:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA02382 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:03:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA07766; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:01:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07705 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:00:28 -0600 (CST) From: STannehill@aol.com Received: from STannehill@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dISOa17110 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:59:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3ef44930.36f0eabb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:59:55 EST To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Rebuilding a CSA after the first year-Changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 Sorry if someone else has posted this, but our farm is 40 miles outside of Buffalo and about 30 from Rochester. We set up distribution groups.... I plot people on a map, "hire" ($100.00 discount off your share) a distribution coordinator from the "neighborhoods" I've plotted, then get all those people together with the coordinator, who signs them up to come out to the farm once or twice during the season to pick up for their neighborhood. We use groups of 10-15 families. It works well, except when the family of four comes out in their CIVIC, forgetting that they need to have room for 15 people's groceries. Obviously, this saves on resources, because we don't have 185 families driving out to the farm every week! Cheers, Sue Tannehill computer geek for Porter Farms CSA Elba, NY From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 09:26:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28225 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:26:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29129 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA14046; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:18:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA13979 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:18:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903181418.IAA13979@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 428431712; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:18:48 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: Subject: Re: Deer Control Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:53:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 When our dog falls behind on deer patrol we pitch a tent in the area where the deer come in and camp out for a couple of nights. The dog gets re-oriented to the chase and the deer are very upset by human presence in "their" territory. This seems to help for at least several weeks. We have had some success with perfume: tie rags into tree branches or posts here and there around the perimeter and douse with the stickiest perfume you can find at the Salvation Army store (another use, perhaps for unwanted Xmas gifts?). Change the scent often and redouse every other day. Chanel #5 worked really well for quite a while... Jo's dad swears by hanging his sweaty overalls in the garden at the end of the day. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 10:07:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29067 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:07:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10628 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:01:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA16831; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:00:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16768 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:00:03 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dAPNa10110 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:56:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:56:05 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: More good news! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 Just got off the phone with Bill Draper from Draper's Super Bee Apiaries. Looks like they'll be setting up 24 hives here this year. They're very pleased to find an organic farm with a good source of clean open water nearby. They supply the hives, the colonies, the electric fencing, the workers to harvest the honey. I get one pound of honey for each hive stationed here, plus of course all of the pollinating action! I can also buy honey wholesale from them by the gallon for distribution to the CSA members -- really great prices since they're close enough for me to pick up at their warehouse. Visitors will have to be reminded and trained that the bees are valued workers and are not to be disturbed, and I might have to adjust tour schedules so that we aren't trying to walk civilians through at high-activity times of the day. And some of us will have to accept that we're probably going to get nailed once in a while. Boy, that's just what it feels like, too -- a hot nail! (Voice of experience, took me a while to learn how to work in the garden when the bees are busy and I do take an occasional hit to this day. The bumblebee who fell into the big clompy garden clog was the worst, though the yellowjacket who went down the loose back waistband of those jeans I should have taken in when I lost weight was a close second.) I figure it's a reasonable price to pay and I thank my lucky stars that this is one allergy I seem to have missed. Drapers also does bee-sting therapy workshops. I have to admit that my fibromyalgia and arthritis are almost gone, don't know if it's dumb luck or goat's milk or good old-fashioned weight-bearing exercise (otherwise known as honest sweaty work) or bee stings. They also sell beautiful furniture-quality observation hives -- maybe next year! Can anybody tell I'm more than a little jazzed about this development? Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com If you'd like to visit Draper's on-line, they're at http://www.draperbee.com -- if you end up doing business with them, let them know I recommended them! The more I run these ridges the more interesting wonderful places I find on the back roads within ten miles of home. What a hoot! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 10:42:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00085 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:42:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA22397 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:36:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18951; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:34:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from ic4.ithaca.edu (ic4.ithaca.edu [147.129.1.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18575 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:27:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from ithaca.edu (ic069163.ithaca.edu [147.129.69.163]) by ic4.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #30132) with ESMTP id <01J8Z0KRJUNW0000PF@ic4.ithaca.edu> for CSA-L@prairienet.org; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:27:08 EST Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:29:31 -0500 From: Debbie Teeter Subject: Re: Deer Control To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Message-id: <36F11BDB.506E0F61@ithaca.edu> Organization: Ithaca College MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <199903181418.IAA13979@firefly.prairienet.org> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 Along similar lines as Jim and Jo: we've have good luck hanging bars of deodorant soap (left in the box/wrapping) from our fruit and ornamental trees. We had constant winter and spring damage (branch tip nibbling, bark stripping) before trying this. Debbie Teeter A.J. Teeter Farm Ithaca, NY Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > When our dog falls behind on deer patrol we pitch a tent in the area where > the deer come in and camp out for a couple of nights. The dog gets > re-oriented to the chase and the deer are very upset by human presence in > "their" territory. This seems to help for at least several weeks. > > We have had some success with perfume: tie rags into tree branches or posts > here and there around the perimeter and douse with the stickiest perfume > you can find at the Salvation Army store (another use, perhaps for unwanted > Xmas gifts?). Change the scent often and redouse every other day. Chanel #5 > worked really well for quite a while... > > Jo's dad swears by hanging his sweaty overalls in the garden at the end of > the day. > > Jo and Jim > "The Community Farm" newsletter > A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture > http://www.gks.com/TCF/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 12:41:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03313 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:41:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24681 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28898; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:33:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28447 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:27:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990318172751.21258.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [199.217.10.2] by send102.yahoomail.com; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:27:51 PST Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:27:51 -0800 (PST) From: Loren Davidson Reply-To: loren@wombat.net Subject: Re: Deer Control To: CSA list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 ---Leigh Hauter wrote: > The idea of meditating or whatever with the poor deer also seems a little > too much. Which of the dozens of deer should I meditate with (Flossie, > Mildred, Ruth Ann, or possibly Betty)? I am sure some of these deer don't > even know each other. I believe that the concept is not necessarily to communicate with individual deer, but with the species consciousness of Deer. Many Native American (and Native European, several more centuries removed) cultures have, in their mythologies and beliefs, the concept of Bear, or Deer, or Raven, as the spirit of that species. Speaking to that spirit of Deer successfully means that the message will get to all the individual deer somehow. One practical application of this that I haven't nearly mastered yet involves speaking to the spirit of Mosquito, indicating that many of their species will die if they land on me for a snack. Once in a great while I get it right, and they leave me alone for a day or so. Most of the time though I make a great mosquito lure. :/ Loren == Loren Davidson Permaculturist, poet, philosopher Please reply to loren@wombat.net http://www.batnet.com/beauty/ "Warning: Listening to talk radio can make you stupid." -- M. Frymer _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 17:16:54 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12399 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:16:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14424 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:10:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA19433; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:08:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19310 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:07:57 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dHHTa23381 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:07:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <728852a5.36f17911@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:07:13 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Deer Control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 I hope we can agree to be friendly even if we don't agree on everything. No, standing out in the field with a drum isn't in Cornell's deer control pamphlet. Yes, I do feel pretty silly when I do it. But it doesn't hurt anything. And the deer don't eat my garden. There, now I've gone and "put mouth" on it, and because I bragged they'll come and eat everything this year. ;-( I also keep a really big noisy dog of a breed that's specialized in territoriality for about 4,000 years (Pyrenees/Maremma), cover the tenderest beds with hog panel and chicken wire cages, hang bars of soap, and one year got a nuisance permit and had a neighbor shoot the two does who were bringing a herd in every night. Maybe they understand the drumming and singing through some kind of psychic vibrations or maybe word got around that I mean business about this garden, who knows? I will continue to do whatever might help and won't hurt. Let's face it, in some cases a bullet _is_ organic. One of my "many skills" hobbies is gardening folklore. I also beat on my old apple trees and yell at them on Imbolc eve (Groundhog Day). I personally think that pruning and fertilizing has more to do with my apple success than this old practice of "scaring" the trees into production, but what the heck. Even the experts at Cornell have admitted "off the record" that peeing outside of the garden perimeter seems to deter deer -- seems to be more effective from a male gardener who thinks "stay out of my territory" while he marks the boundary. But they haven't published this finding. (Outside, not inside the garden, please, we organic gardeners already have a reputation to live down because of manure and compost) I've also had great success with putting piles of "zoo poo" around the garden perimeter. Most zoos sell it these days in expensive little one-pound composted bags but you might be able to get fresh pure stuff in exchange for a donation. If you can get fresh lion or tiger poo for free, more power to you. If I was a deer I'd sure notice that message and stay well on the other side of that 7-mile range, especially when the farmer was leaning out the back door calling "Here, kitty, kitty...." Dori Green http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 17:38:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13138 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:38:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21230 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:32:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21040; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:26:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20991 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:26:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from [209.8.149.176] [209.8.149.145] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AE6EB60088; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:30:06 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <728852a5.36f17911@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:30:08 -0500 To: DGreen47@aol.com From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: Deer Control Cc: CSA list Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 I'm sorry, Komondorak do the same thing, but better. >I also keep a really big noisy dog of a breed that's specialized in >territoriality for about 4,000 years (Pyrenees/Maremma), From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 18:09:23 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14104 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28973 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:03:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA23865; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:01:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23805 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:01:14 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dNBHa04982 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:48:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:48:39 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Deer Control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 The problem with almost all methods of deer control, seriously, is that deer become quickly acclimated to almost every form of control and soon ignore it. The only truly 100% effective control is a 14-foot-high woven wire fence. The monastery a few hills over has surrounded their orchard with just such a fence. Without it I doubt they'd get a single apple. And these guys have got Connections! Dori Green http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 19:38:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15444 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:38:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18762 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA29889; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:30:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29805 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:29:23 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dPBIa28778 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:28:39 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:28:39 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Bee Ware!: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 Bees are an exciting addition to any growing operation. I've found that by keeping four honey bee hives in the center of my fields that the hornets and yellow jackets choose less populated airspace to site their hives. I have planted bamboo screens around the honey well to protect both bees and visitors. But the tired girls sometimes get cranky around full moons and become less tolerant than usual. When they sting, we have first aid immediately available. The Homeopathic Apis mellifica 6X, and Adolph's meat tenderizer formed into a paste with water or saliva. They stop the burn, swelling and itching often accompanying stings. People's fears are often the most challenging obstacle to overcome. I hope your county doesn't use herbicides to "maintain roadsides." I can always tell when the roads are sprayed across Rich Passage from Bainbridge Island because all of my Queens die in the same week. The media would have us believe that mites are the problem. I plant mint around the hives to prevent mites. But I can't keep the field bees from crossing the passage to deathville. Good luck and step lightly. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 19:50:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15633 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:50:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21201 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00806; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:41:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00740 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:40:55 -0600 (CST) From: HMSTDFRMS@aol.com Received: from HMSTDFRMS@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dQPKa04877; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:40:14 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <5b8276f.36f19cee@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:40:14 EST To: SCook21809@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Bee Ware!: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 Congrats on getting the bee hives, Dori. Gotta tell ya, we have had an extremely active swarm in the side of our old barn for many years. Their fly- way is directly in front of the main door to the barn that is used countless times a day. The *only* time anyone has ever gotten stung was when the hay wagon, needing a quick repair, was parked so that it blocked their entry. They got down right ornry, and nailed my hot and tired hubby while he was fixing the wagon. We always warn folks that they are there, and usually visitors take a wide path around that area. Others are quite intrigued with the prospect of a barn full of honey!! Linda Homestead Farms From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 19:53:41 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15711 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21944 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:47:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01182; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:45:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from stinger.excite.com (stinger-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01132 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:45:41 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from ants.excite.com ([199.172.152.146]) by stinger.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990319004509.IVNK7586.stinger@ants.excite.com> for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:45:09 -0800 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re:Bee Ware!: Message-Id: <921804309.26056.302@excite.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:45:09 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.251 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 Art, Thanks for the practical bee advice. We have ordered two swarms that are due to arrive next month some time. We hadn't really thought about CSA members and bees. Will have to go out and get some apis mellifora 6x and meat tenderizer and learn a good calming speech to get the CSAers over their fears of bees and find that perfect out of the way spot for them. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 20:02:10 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15874 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:02:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA23905 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01779; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:54:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from saturn.ausaid.gov.au (saturn.ausaid.gov.au [202.6.56.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01705 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:54:00 -0600 (CST) Received: by saturn.ausaid.gov.au; id LAA25586; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:53:26 +1100 (EST) Received: from degas.ausaid.gov.au(202.6.37.150) by saturn.ausaid.gov.au via smap (4.1) id xma025577; Fri, 19 Mar 99 11:53:24 +1100 Received: from ccMail by degas.ausaid.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 000BD9E0; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:53:34 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:51:44 +1000 Message-ID: <000BD9E0.005013@ausaid.gov.au> From: Anton_Vikstrom@ausaid.gov.au (Anton Vikstrom) Subject: Fw: Virus Alert VERY IMPORTANT To: Robert_Ferraris@ausaid.gov.au (Robert Ferraris), Patricia_Ludowyk@ausaid.gov.au (Patricia Ludowyk), John_Murray@ausaid.gov.au (John Murray), Ed_Peek@ausaid.gov.au (Ed Peek), Brian_Scoullar@ausaid.gov.au (Brian Scoullar), Luca_Tacconi@ausaid.gov.au (Luca Tacconi), CSA-L@prairienet.org, sgraham@findhorn.org, salsify333@hotmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 what will those clever fellas down in hacker land think of next>? ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Fw: Virus Alert VERY IMPORTANT Author: steve@gungahlintech.com.au (Gungahlin Tech - Steve) at Inter-net Date: 3/18/99 10:32 PM >Subject: Fw: Virus Alert VERY IMPORTANT > >Please make a note of the message below... > >If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say 'Jesus'" >DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. >Forward this letter out to as many people as you can. > >This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. > >This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; please share it >with everyone that might access the Internet. Once again, pass this >along to EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped. > >AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is >NO remedy for it at this time. Please practice cautionary measures >and forward this to all your online friends ASAP. > > > > > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 18 22:00:06 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA17671 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:00:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21269 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:54:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA08384; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:52:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08320 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:51:55 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dMPCa18039 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:49:44 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:49:44 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bee Ware!: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 One of the great advantages of living in a less-populated area is that it seems to be easier to win the battle about road spraying. Maybe it was because I buy hay from the highway superintendent. It's all connected. Dori Green http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 20 06:53:42 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA14624 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:53:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA17691 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:47:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10827; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:46:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from www.mebbs.com (www.mebbs.com [207.177.12.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10696 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:40:46 -0600 (CST) Received: by www.mebbs.com from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:50:20 -0600 Received: from boblkbns.netins.net [207.177.12.36] by www.mebbs.com [207.177.12.3] (SLmail 3.2.3108) with SMTP id A796698CDD8411D28AC90020182AA861 for plus 1 more; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:50:19 -0600 Message-ID: <000501be72c6$06c94f60$240cb1cf@boblkbns.netins.net> From: "Ron Boyer" To: Cc: "Ron Boyer" Subject: haven't heard Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:37:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-SLUIDL: B09A9CB5-DD8A11D2-8AC90020-182AA861 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 I haven't heard from anyone in the last day or two so I was wondering if the list was down this is my first letter. I am Ron Boyer from Boyer Black Beans in Iowa.I don't have a CSA but I do raise dry beans and I think later on in the season we should be able to help each other out particularly in the midwest.I have a web page that is not completed yet but if you are interested it is www.blackbeans.com I hope you check it out and I am sure I will be talking to you. PS I farm about 500 acres but I have some of the same problems you have(deer and profits) it has been interesting see you approach to these problem among others Ron Boyer From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 20 09:40:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16454 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:40:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA08775 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16013; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:32:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15934 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:31:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.69.131.190] [198.69.131.190] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A1FE20C013C; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:34:38 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:34:38 -0500 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Fwd: What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now that the big marketing and distribution companies are moving in? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id IAA15935 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:50:51 -0800 >From: "Albert V. Krebs" >Reply-To: avkrebs@earthlink.net >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: one@earthlink.net >Subject: What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now that the big > marketing and distribution companies are moving in? >X-RCPT-TO: >Status: U > >http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/en/1999/03/16bio.html > >LE MONDE DIPLOMATIQUE - March 1999 > >ORGANIC FOOD: LIES AND PROFITS >Bio business is big business >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- >What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now that the big >marketing and distribution companies are moving in? Will they survive >the shock? As a result of the "mad cow disease" panic, organic farming is >enjoying an unprecedented boom. Consumer demand has never been so >strong. >The major retail stores are filling more and more of their shelves with >organic produce. Organic shops and supermarkets - or at least claiming >to be organic - are shooting up everywhere. However, now that organic >farming is coming into its own and is also receiving subsidies, it has >become a >juicy market niche ripe for exploitation. Faced with the encroachment of > >big business, the organic lobby seems uncertain which way to turn. >by CHANTAL LE NOALLEC * > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- >Buying organic food is a statement of principle. It means supporting a >model of agriculture that is on the side of life, and resisting the >destruction of our environment. It means rejecting the madness of >consumer society, respecting animals, and looking after our bodies. It >also means taking responsibility for our choices in one of the few areas >where it >can still be done. It is a form of freedom and of hope, and a way of >fighting for a better world. > >In the spring of 1998 various "biocoops" (1) in Brittany were selling >yoghurt under the brand name of Grandeur Nature. However this brand >label - distributed by Le Gall dairies, with only their own name featuring on >the packaging - conceals the real source of the product: a company called >Even, which is a major player in the agribusiness sector in Brittany, and a >supplier of pesticides. Somebody had something to hide. > >In another example, the Bio d'Armor yoghurts which sell in the Géant >hypermarkets are also sold under another label in organic food shops - >Grandeur Nature. The only difference is the packaging and the price. >Then there is the Triballat company, also from Brittany, which produces >organic milk products under the Vrai brand name for the large stores, and >as Les Fromagers de Tradition for the specialist market. But in the second >case >Triballat's name does not feature! The same thing happens with >Distriborg, which is distributing the same organic range under two brand >names, >Bjorg and Evernat. Where is consumer choice if the basic information is so >misleading? > >Selling these goods, sometimes produced or distributed by companies >whose primary interest is in making money, hardly fits with the ethos of the >organic movement. "Is this really the kind of development that we want >to encourage when we buy organic?" asks the editor of an organic gardening >magazine, Antoine Bosse-Platičre (2). > >The danger lying behind these smokescreen brands is that the organic >sector is about to become industrialised, because the agribusinesses are >beginning to take a big interest in it. Farmland is increasingly being >switched to organic, and an organic industry is developing based on >mono-cropping. >More seriously, a number of companies are pressing for the present >specifications to be relaxed, under the pretext of speeding up >conversion and making it possible to supply more products at ever-lower >prices. So is this what the future holds? A downmarket and standardised >organic sector >run at rock-bottom costs? > >Key figures in the organic movement say they have to make organic >produce available to people on lower incomes. This is an admirable sentiment, >but in attempting to combat charges of elitism, it is not being completely >straight. After all, even the Carrefour supermarket chain has committed >itself to "making organic food more accessible to ordinary people". What > >this will mean is price-cutting, following the same neo-liberal logic >that has reduced conventional agriculture to its present state of paralysis. >Cutting costs will means cutting jobs and wages, increasing output, >intensifying organic agriculture, and creating an organic industry - >with the inevitable consequence of the disappearance of smaller producers. > >The alternative approach is to guarantee a fair remuneration for both >producers and processors, geared to the quality of the product and the >work that goes into it. This is the only way that small and medium-size >organic producers will preserve their independence. And down the line it will >lead to the creation of jobs and more people buying organic. Failing this, we >will have to invent other guarantees, another label, and other places >where produce can be bought. And the charge that organic produce is too costly > >does not stand up to analysis if we look at the costs of conventional >products in terms of subsidies, damage to health and pollution. > >Economical with the truth >Another sign of the industrialisation of the organic sector relates to a > >concession which allows the introduction of non-organic and occasionally >dubious ingredients up to 5% of content. At present this generally >involves thickeners and gelling agents - such as carrageenan, guar flour, >carob >flour and xanthan gum - which are all moisture retainers used in the >food industry, with effects that some people think may be harmful to health >(3). > >In addition, for some months many shops in France have been selling >chocolates and cakes containing lecithin which is not always organic, >which means there is no guarantee as to the origins of the soya used. Is it >genetically modified or not? When you try to ask, you are told that >these articles carry the AB logo (4), that there are not sufficient supplies >of organic soya lecithin available, and that this non-organic lecithin is >permitted as part of the 5% allowable non-organic content. And anyway, >these products have been classified and even approved by Biocoop (5), so > >there is no reason to remove them from the shelves. Or they tell you >that in due course the supplier intends to become "100% organic". > >It is not enough to raise a public debate on genetically modified >organisms (GMOs), and in particular on Novartis's maize. The only coherent >position is a total boycott. Otherwise we abuse the good faith of the many >customers who buy without reading labels, who trust the AB logo and may >believe >that "organic" products are actually 100% organic and therefore carry no risk >of GMOs. > >If you look further, what do you find behind the soya-based organic >produce marketed under the Soy label (produced by Nutrition et Soja) and >sold in many organic food shops in France? You find Novartis, the giant >drugs >and agro-chemical multinational whose genetically modified anti-meal-moth >maize has been under cultivation in France since spring 1998. That means each >time you buy or sell a Soy product you are contributing to the expansion >of Novartis and encouraging their kind of agriculture, and the kind of >civilisation it conjures up. But Biocoop and some sections of the >eco-organic community suppress this information in order, as they put >it, "not to spread panic among consumers". > >Biocoop decided to grant its seal of approval to the Soy label back in >October 1996, even though it knew perfectly well that it was owned by >Sandoz, another seed and agro-chemical giant - known as the "polluter of > >the Rhine" (after the notorious incident at the Sandoz factories in >Basle on 31 October 1986 when tons of insecticides and mercury-based >fungicides were released into the river). Sandoz had also bought the >Céréal brand name. It was not until early 1998 that people heard of the >so-called >"issue of conscience" posed by this decision, as described in Comsom'action >magazine published by Biocoop. Subsequently there was no mention of the >Sandoz-Ciba-Geigy merger which gave birth to Novartis in April 1997, not >even in the acceptance documentation for Soy on 17 March 1998. > >Biocoop has gone to great lengths to justify taking Soy on board, as >shown by the reply to an inquiry from a consumer in June 1998: "We find >ourselves in a situation where a company that belongs to the major producer of >genetically modified foods in France is collaborating with the organic >sector in order to set up a traceability procedure so that the absence >of genetically modified elements can be properly guaranteed." Here you have >two propositions that are hard to reconcile: collaborating with Novartis >in order to "protect soya seeds" in the future! Even basic information is >manipulated: "Soy is currently the only producer in this sector >prioritising the use of French organic soya; all the other processors >work with soya imported from the Canada and the USA" (documentation of 17 >March 1998). > >This is quite untrue. Tofoulie, a cooperative set up in 1991 and >operating in the Drôme in Provence, has always worked solely with French >organic soya >- unlike Soy, which uses both non-organic soya (25% of its total output) >and foreign organic soya (7.5%) (6) and hence runs the risk of >contamination by genetically modified soya. And soya certainly does not >represent the totality of leguminous vegetable valuable for crop >rotation. >"Ethics" come a poor second to the harsh logic of business: if it >stopped selling Soy, how would it stock its shelves? > >What seems to be happening is that the acquisition of Soy has given >Novartis a key to entry into the organic market that will enable it to >pull soya producers more or less directly into its sphere of influence. This >means the soya producers of south-west France, who also grow cereals; >other organic suppliers of Soy (Markal, Celnat, Hervé, Lima, Petite, Viver >etc); >the distributors (Biocoop, Distriborg, etc); and consumers. As things >stand, Novartis is able to use the organic sector as an alibi, to create >a brand image for "ecological capitalism". > >Already people are talking about "bio-industry", a term they use to >refer both to the industrialisation of the organic sector and the massive >industrialisation of life forms themselves, which is likely to be the >future with the emerging revolution in biotechnology (7). This >conflation and ambiguity is uncomfortably open to exploitation. In this >situation, how >can we properly engage our responsibilities in the future of the organic >sector? And how are we going to find ways to fight multinationals whose >aims are a maximisation of profits and unlimited growth, and certainly >not respect for nature? The danger is that in putting in so much effort to >"save soya" people are forgetting the basic issue, which is the very >survival of organic agriculture in the world of genetic manipulation >which is opening before us. > >Is it really the case that in order to resist being taken over by >agribusiness, the organic sector has no choice but to adopt its models >(competition, emphasising productivity, chasing profits, etc) and accept > >ways of operating that it has for so long rejected? The danger is that >the organic sector is going to lose its identity. Too often in this debate >"ethics" is simply a publicity catch-all which bears no relation to >reality. "Transparency, quality, living together, ecology, organic food, > >consumer action" are all becoming mere slogans in the mouths of many >organic sector professionals - particularly in distribution - who are >fast >turning into marketing technicians. The tendency is towards mergers >between >firms, a proliferation of anonymous products and distributor >brand-names, >and bio-business. > >All this is now becoming the norm, to such an extent that the organic >and >ecological sectors are now tolerating compromises which would have been >unthinkable only a short while ago. There are fewer and fewer >independent >organic companies. In the longer term, the independence of organic >farming >is seriously at risk. One solution might be "autarchic organic farming" >(8) >that aims to return to its roots. Such farming would be local and >respectful of the environment; it would preserve small-scale operations >and >bring life back to deserted rural communities; and it would put >consumers >and producers onto a more equal footing. > >Present tendencies in some parts of the organic sector are putting all >this >at risk. As big multinational companies are eyeing the sector, it is >becoming urgent for organic consumers to stand up and make their >feelings >known. Do we want be witnesses, or rather accomplices, in what is being >prepared for us, or will we opt for real organic choices and quality of >life? This is going to involve questioning the currently fashionable >behaviour patterns of "consumer activists" and "eco-consumers" (9), and >also analysing the notion of sustainable development within which people > >are trying to confine organic agriculture. > >These are choices about the kind of society that we want to live in. >They >lie at the heart of a debate whose outcome will dictate our ways of >feeding >ourselves, our health, and our ways of thinking both about ourselves and > >about the universe. > >* President of the Union des Consommateurs de la Bio (UCBio) > >Translated by Ed Emery > >(1) The Biocoop federation was set up in 1987. It is a distribution >network >for organic produce, representing around 180 biocoops whose aim is to >establish a new kind of relationship between producers and consumers. > >(2) See the article by Antoine Bosse-Plantičre, "Oů acheter bio >demain?", >Les Quatre Saisons du Jardinage, no. 110, Editions Terre Vivante, >May-June >1998. > >(3) Fabien Perucca and Gérard Pouradier, Des Poubelles dans nos >Assiettes, >Michel Lafon, Paris, 1996. > >(4) Organic agriculture is a method of farming which uses no synthetic >chemicals and is controlled by certificating bodies recognised by the >French ministry of agriculture. Once an organic product has been >certified >as conforming to government standards, it has the right to the label "AB > >product" or "AB-based product" and, if required, can use the ministry's >green and white AB logo. > >Biocoop recognition is given to organic suppliers who request it, as >long >as they meet the following requirements: independence, support for >organic >production, reduction of middlemen and information on the source of >supplies. The Biocoop product service then draws up the recognition >documentation. This can then be consulted by consumers, and gives >information on the supplier in question: company structure, supplier >policies, distribution policy, etc. >See the acceptance documentation for Soy, 17 March 1998. > >(7) See Jeremy Rifkin, The Biotech Century: Harnessing the Gene and >Remaking the World, JP Tarcher, 1998 (hardback, paperback forthcoming). > >(8) See the editorial in Nature & Progrčs, May-June 1998. > >(9) See Raoul Vaneigem, Nous qui désirons sans fin, Le Cherche Midi, >Paris >1996. > >(10) See Bernard Charbonneau: une vie entičre ŕ dénoncer la grande >imposture, Erčs, Ramonville-Saint-Agne, 1997. This collected volume is >dedicated to Bernard Charbonneau (1910-96) who throughout his life >denounced "the dictatorship of economics", "the lie of technoscience" >and >"the mistakes of political ecology". >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- > >ALL RIGHTS RESERVED © 1999 Le Monde diplomatique > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 20 13:45:55 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18735 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:45:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04190 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:39:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27443; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:38:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27371 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:38:12 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dPIUa05038 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:37:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <35ea799b.36f3eaee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:37:34 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now thatthe big marke... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 Exactly why I promote CSA, not just Organic. I don't rely on a piece of paper or a label and don't think it's a good idea for anybody to do so. Whenever possible I buy locally-produced material from people with whom I've taken the time and trouble to build a relationship. It ain't always convenient. But it sure pays off. Tried to burn some trash today, ended up with a pretty big grass fire. The volunteers all know me, I've done business with half of the guys who rolled in. I've donated to the Auxilliary when I could, though with my asthma I can't fight fires myself. (Did a darn good job of it while waiting for them though, especially on the barn side, I can tell you!) They were here less than ten minutes after I flagged down a passing truck and asked him to go next door and have the neighbors call the volunteers. I might have gotten the same response if I didn't make it a point of supporting local business but I do believe that Community makes a difference. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 01:29:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA26394 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:29:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA00891 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:23:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA26050; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:21:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from mb05.swip.net (mb05.swip.net [193.12.122.209]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25496 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:15:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from [130.244.233.30] (dialup233-1-30.swipnet.se [130.244.233.30]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA29417; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:15:18 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: mg25209@gaia.swip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:08:07 +0200 To: Leigh Hauter , CSA list From: hans.von.essen@c.lrf.se (Hans von Essen) Subject: Re: Fwd: What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now that the big marketing and distribution companies are moving in? Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 Maybe the Nordic countries have the longest experience of this problem. Sweden had a kind of CSA movement when the organic movement succeded to enter into supermarkets. Today a little above 9% of all farm land is officially organic and some 3-4% of products sold. Prices for organic products where lowered and it was more comfortable for the consumers. The Swedish more or less CSA-like system which developed in the 1960:ies was too weak to withstand that pressure. I would not take this issue too light if I was in the USA CSA movement. Many organic vegetable producers in Sweden with a diversified production (those that build up the image) are now in serious economic difficulties at the same time as the organic movement is expanding. This problem is today realized within the organic leadership in Sweden. It is necessary to turn back to quality. I think, in consequence, it is necessary to strengthen the CSA work in the direction of rural development to be strong enough to survive, in the way Dori Green describes. Money must circulate within the village to keep the job opportunities there. When people realize that their living base is at stake, this will be a strong enough movive to keep buying local even if it is uncomfortable. Hans von Essen Sweden From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 17:11:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04002 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14120 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:05:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA24474; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:58:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from gold.wvnet.edu (gold.wvnet.edu [129.71.2.25]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24388 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:57:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from IP004091.DIALUP.WVNET.EDU by gold.wvnet.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.D8FD7E10@gold.wvnet.edu>; 21 Mar 1999 17:04:14 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990321165808.006963d8@wvu.edu> X-Sender: dsauter@wvu.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:58:51 -0500 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: "Don T. Sauter" Subject: farm liability insurance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 Hello friends, Where do you get your product liability insurance for products that you produce on your farms? I know the Farm Bureau has farm insurance, but I'm a bit resistant to giving them our business (for fear that our membership will be considered one more "vote" for Farm Bureau views which often are at extreme odds from ours). You have to become a member in order to "qualify" for their insurance. Any suggestions appreciated. Susan Truxell Sauter ssauter2@wvu.edu From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 17:39:35 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04293 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:39:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21223 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:33:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA25973; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:25:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25913 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:25:09 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dTCUa04995 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:24:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3c1a1a28.36f57183@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:24:03 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: farm liability insurance Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 Farm Bureau works for me, and no we don't always agree. Decided I didn't have to stand there looking at a pile of ashes where my house used to stand and no replacement check coming in the mail just to serve my principles. It's a cold world sometimes. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 17:47:28 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04354 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:47:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA22771 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:40:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26410; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:34:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26149 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:30:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903212230.QAA26149@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 236750879; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:30:26 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , "Don T. Sauter" Subject: Re: farm liability insurance Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:14:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 Regarding liability insurance, are you really interested in product liability insurance (which protects you from a suit brought, say, by someone made ill from your produce) or just straight farm liability (which protects you from someone tripping over a raised bed and breaking an ankle). The former is , as I understand it, hard to get and expensive. Especially for food-related items. The latter can be provided by most carriers who insure farms (we simply converted a household insurance policy to a farm insurance policy with the same company when we started Five Springs Farm). But we have not as yet considered product liability. It may be prudent, though. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Don T. Sauter > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: farm liability insurance > Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 4:58 PM > > Hello friends, > > Where do you get your product liability insurance for products that you > produce on your farms? I know the Farm Bureau has farm insurance, but I'm > a bit resistant to giving them our business (for fear that our membership > will be considered one more "vote" for Farm Bureau views which often are at > extreme odds from ours). You have to become a member in order to "qualify" > for their insurance. Any suggestions appreciated. > > > > Susan Truxell Sauter > ssauter2@wvu.edu > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 21:38:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06424 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08884 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:32:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA07419; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:23:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07342 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:23:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06325 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:29:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06647 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:22:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:22:59 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: farm liability insurance In-Reply-To: <199903212230.QAA26149@firefly.prairienet.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > Regarding liability insurance, are you really interested in product > liability insurance (which protects you from a suit brought, say, by > someone made ill from your produce) or just straight farm liability (which > protects you from someone tripping over a raised bed and breaking an > ankle). The former is , as I understand it, hard to get and expensive. > Especially for food-related items. The latter can be provided by most > carriers who insure farms (we simply converted a household insurance policy > to a farm insurance policy with the same company when we started Five > Springs Farm). But we have not as yet considered product liability. It may > be prudent, though. I'd suggest getting product liability for your own protection and for access to markets requiring such insurance (many do). Farm Bureau offers PLI and it provides farm liability coverage as well. Their rates are proportional to the gross annual operation of your farm operation. For example, a projected $5000 income will set your insurance rate at around $125 a year. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 22:52:31 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07476 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:52:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25063 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:46:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11252; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:39:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from gwgate.lib.iastate.edu (gwgate.lib.iastate.edu [129.186.11.21]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11204 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from Parks_Library-Message_Server by gwgate.lib.iastate.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:54 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:48 -0600 From: "Jeff Hall" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Cc: boblkbns@www.mebbs.com Subject: Re: haven't heard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id VAA11205 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 Hi Ron, you might want to plug into a group called the Iowa Network for Community Agriculture. Jan Libbey is the coordinator, her email is libland@kalnet.com. Its a group that came out of several CSA's starting up, with connections to other local food initiatives. Where are you farming/selling? Jeff Hall, Interesting Times Permaculture Garden Elkhart, IA, US >>> "Ron Boyer" 03/20 5:37 AM >>> I haven't heard from anyone in the last day or two so I was wondering if the list was down this is my first letter. I am Ron Boyer from Boyer Black Beans in Iowa.I don't have a CSA but I do raise dry beans and I think later on in the season we should be able to help each other out particularly in the midwest.I have a web page that is not completed yet but if you are interested it is www.blackbeans.com I hope you check it out and I am sure I will be talking to you. PS I farm about 500 acres but I have some of the same problems you have(deer and profits) it has been interesting see you approach to these problem among others Ron Boyer From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 21 23:12:07 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07766 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:12:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA28673 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:06:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA12256; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:59:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12197 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:59:33 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dUTGa28780 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:58:11 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:58:11 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: farm liability insurance Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 Susan, The West Coast is not served by The Farm Bureau. We have The Grange instead. Grange insurance is very comprehensive. Home liability, Farm liability, Product liability, Fire, earth quake, volcano eruptions, out buildings, equipment and employee coverage all covered up to $2 million on the basic policy. It cost about double what our home owners policy ran. But it covers everything to do about farming. To get the coverage, one must join the fraternal order of the Grange. Our local chapter has a woman Grange Master, woman Overseer, woman Secretary and woman Treasurer. So what makes it a fraternal organization? The charter. It is a politically and locally active group of concerned farmers who don't allow trivial semantics to get in the way of good works. As with many farmers, there are Spiritual overtones and rituals associated with the business of the organization making it rather secular. Who could ask for more than piece of mind and brotherhood? Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 03:45:50 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA10118 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:45:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA18472 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:39:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA22844; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:28:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22766 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:28:17 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dVLGa28780 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:27:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6a88e70c.36f5fefd@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:27:41 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Grange (was farm liability insurance) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 I can't say enough for the Grange. It's a really wonderful, wonderful organization and a great way to get to know nice people in your community who share your interest in farming. Potluck dinners are fabulous, almost as good as a Lutheran church supper. I'm reactivating my membership this year, part of my general "phoenix" program; I had let it lapse when I was working full time and didn't have enough spare time to spit. Ash Grove rises from the ashes! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 04:14:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA10255 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 04:14:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA23695 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 04:08:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA23658; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:01:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from ramses.lu.se (ramses.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23615 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:01:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (luetnfs.etn.lu.se [130.235.150.159]) by ramses.lu.se (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA21577 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:02:23 +0100 (MET) Received: from LUETNFS/SpoolDir by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.21); 22 Mar 99 10:13:18 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUETNFS (Mercury 1.30); 22 Mar 99 10:13:02 +0100 Received: from humecol.lu.se by LUETNFS.etn.lu.se (Mercury 1.30) with ESMTP; 22 Mar 99 10:13:00 +0100 Message-ID: <36F60476.3B393E51@humecol.lu.se> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:51:02 +0100 From: Folke =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Community supported, Agriculture" Subject: Ruralisation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id DAA23617 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 In the Global Futures Bulletin #79 and 80, a matter very close to my research field is discussed, city future, and I have added the following remark. Since I think that the issue is of interest also to the CSA-members, I take the liberty to post it also to you, in order to ecourage your work. FG THE FUTURE OF CITIES Folke Günther [1] A very interesting discussion on urban development has taken place in the GFB #79 and #80 by Peter Newman [2], Ted Trainer [3] and John McLaughlin [4], and in the editorial comments to their compositions. In the discussions, however, some important issues have been foreseen that must be pointed out: I. Energy dependence Urban structures are not only heavily energy using, but also can it be said that they are a result [5] of energy availability. This matter can naturally be discussed, but I think that almost everybody will agree with the statement that a conurbation is heavily energy dependent. Thus, the sustainability of a city is dependent on easily accessible energy. An increasing number of studies [6] doubt that energy will be easily accessible even in the close future. Even in a case where this is not agreed with, it should be taken up as a consideration in the sustainable development discussion. The energy dependence is not only a function of personal transportation/urban sprawl, but also an increasing amount of energy used in the food system. A low estimate is that the food system requires ten times the energy in the food, probably more. The US food system reached that (in)efficiency around 1980 [7]. Since the average food energy needed to sustain a person is about 1000 kWh per year, this means that the food related energy requirements of a person (10 000 kWh/yr) are larger than those of transportation (3 500 kWh/yr) or space heating/cooling (4 000 kWh/yr). Naturally, this correspondingly affects the vulnerability to energy availability of the different systems. Therefore, urban sprawl and urbanisation will only take place in a situation characterised by easily accessible energy. If a habitation system can be found that would diminish this energy dependency considerably, it would be much less vulnerable. II. Nutrient dependency When people live in a crowded area (a conurbation) the food can not be produced locally for its inhabitants (see point I) but must be imported from a wide area. Nutrients, of which phosphorus is the scarcest in the support area, follow the food. Hence fertilisers must be supplied to the food growing area, and they are accumulated in the urban area, or lost into seas or lakes. To my knowledge, there are no cities that maintain a circulation of nutrients to the supporting area, but all have a net import or throughput of nutrients. This situation has several complications. First, there is a support – pollution problem. The time-horizon for availability of phosphorus for nutrient production (at current energy prices!) is 100 – 150 years. In the other end, phosphorus (and nitrogen) compounds are serious water pollutants. To avoid the pollution problem, an increasing part of the cities have installed wastewater plants. If phosphorus is not let out of the area, it will accumulate there, mainly as sludge from the plants. The sludge is deposited in the vicinity, either on landfills or on local agriculture. By this, the accumulation in the area will go on. However, when an increasing amount of nutrients is accumulated in the area the non-point leakage will increase. After some time, the total leakage will amount to a substantial part of the import, and the phosphorus flow is redirected into the flow import — accumulation — leakage, instead of the earlier import — export mode. The end result is the same, however, with depletion in one end and pollution in the other. This is what I call a HEAP-trap (Hampered Effluent Accumulation Processes) [8]. It is clearly an unsustainable conduct. Therefore, urban sprawl and urbanisation will only take place in a situation characterised by easily accessible energy and easily accessible nutrients, especially phosphorus. The only way to avoid this problem is to develop a local food production system that also can re-use the nutrients. The lesser the access to cheap energy and nutrients are, the closer must the loop be. A conclusion: If long-time survival is the issue, local, mainly self-supporting communities must replace the large conurbations. Started soon, the process must not necessarily be very fast. I call this process a ‘ruralisation’. [1] Folke Günther, disserting at Department of Systems Ecology, NMR, Stockholm University, Sweden (Ecological Adaptation of Human Settlements). Lecturer in Division of Human Ecology, Lund University, Sweden. URL:http://www.etn.lu.se/~folke_g/folkegsv.htm (sorry, most of it is in Swedish) E-mail: Folke.Gunther@humecol.lu.se [2] Newman, Peter 'Cities and Smart Growth' Global Futures Bulletin #79 01 Mar, 1999 [3] Trainer, Ted 'Smart Growth' Global Futures Bulletin #80 15 Mar, 1999 [4] McLaughlin, John Impact of the Net on Urban Planning/Transport Global Futures Bulletin #80 15 Mar, 1999 [5] A diagram shoving the development if cities compared to the global energy use can be found (in an article in swedish) at http://www.etn.lu.se/~folke_g/RURSV2.HTM [6] http://hubbert.mines.edu/ ; http://dieoff.org/page1.htm ; Campbell, C. J., 1997. The Coming Oil Crisis. Multi-Science Publishing Company / Petroconsultants S.A.; Campbell, C. J. and J. H. Laherrčre, 1998. The End of Cheap Oil. Scientific American, 3: 78-83 [7] Hall, C.A.S., C.J.Cleveland and R.Kaufmann, 1986. Energy and Resource Quality. Wiley Interscience, New York. [8] Günther, F., 1997. Hampered Effluent Accumulation Processes: Phosphorus Management and Societal Structure. Ecological Economics, 21, 159-174. Elsevier -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Folke Günther +46 (0)46/ 14 14 29 el. +46 (0)46/222 36 98. Kollegievägen 19, 224 73 Lund, Sweden URL: http://www.humecol.lu.se/~folke_g/folkegsv.htm --- When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it. A.A. Milne From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 08:06:15 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA11941 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:06:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA00415 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:00:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA29064; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 06:52:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp.thestreet.com ([208.241.190.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28983 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 06:51:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from jherr ([207.38.252.9]) by smtp.thestreet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58593U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:40:39 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990322044736.00a0e22c@mail.thestreet.com> X-Sender: Jherr@mail.thestreet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 04:47:39 +0000 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Jeff Herr Subject: Re: Grange (still is farm liability insurance) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 We had USAA coverage on our home. As many know, USAA has just about the lowest rates in the land. But they don't cover ag operations of any kind. So we checked with Grange and for a modest 10% boost in premium we got the farming coverage we needed plus a HUGE increase in liability coverage and insurance for all buildings and equipment. Seems pretty good to us. Thankfully we've never filed a claim. But that will be the real test. Jeff Herr The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA At 03:27 AM 3/22/99 EST, DGreen47@aol.com wrote: >I can't say enough for the Grange. It's a really wonderful, wonderful >organization and a great way to get to know nice people in your community who >share your interest in farming. Potluck dinners are fabulous, almost as good >as a Lutheran church supper. I'm reactivating my membership this year, part >of my general "phoenix" program; I had let it lapse when I was working full >time and didn't have enough spare time to spit. > >Ash Grove rises from the ashes! > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com > > Jeff Herr TheStreet.com phone: (425) 333-6842 mobile: (425) 985-2913 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 08:58:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12664 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:58:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12907 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:52:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA01531; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:46:01 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01483 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:45:45 -0600 (CST) From: Adenalou@aol.com Received: from Adenalou@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id sYFLa03225 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:45:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:45:06 EST To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: research--is fresh food more nutritious? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 Does anyone know of the actual published studies that say fresh food is more nutritious than food that has been sitting around for awhile, or food that wasn't picked ripe? I'm writing my senior thesis on CSA at UT-Austin and haven't gotten my hands on this info. Also, does anyone know where, specifically, the quote about food travelling 1300 miles from field to fork comes from? I've heard the University of Massachusettes, but I'm not sure. Thanks. Please reply to this address: adena@mail.utexas.edu, don't just press reply. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 09:24:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13007 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:24:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17253 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:17:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA02940; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:11:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02546 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:03:38 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dWEQa26764 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:54:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <39452ec0.36f64bb1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:54:57 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 I've devised two ways to do this -- because let's face it, if people were into delayed gratification and risk the way we are, they'd be farmers too and we wouldn't have a social need for CSAs! 1) Half of every shareholder fee goes into an escrow account, no matter what the temptation might be to spend it on needful things or reimburse me for operating expenses already laid out. This way if I have to I can fill the weekly orders through wholesale purchases. I have shareholders specify if they require only 100% chemical-free produce and if so I make sure that's what they get, otherwise I use my network of other neighboring farmers and wholesale suppliers. I buy some from them every week, mostly to fill in the farm market stands and also to keep a relationship working. 2) If the absolutely worst case scenario happens and there's a total crop failure here at the farm and it's so bad that the escrow money can't replace the shares even at wholesale, shareholders receive a credit to be applied to the next year. Last year's drought coupled with a demanding full-time job and unreliable hired help (as in never showing up when they said they would) hit my garden pretty hard last season, and I ended up offering replacement or credits to my members. Out of 12 (I was running on minimum to start with), only two took credits. Five told me to forget about it, they felt like they had received their money's worth. Five accepted replacements, and the escrow account covered it easily. Needless to say, I ended up not making any money on the garden last year (except for the edible pansy bed, which was a huge success). But without losing any money either, I covered my credibility nicely and reducing the risk factor this way makes it a _lot_ easier to recruit new members for this our major expansion year (going from about two cultivated acres to about eight, yikes). I didn't get into this game with the idea of becoming a distributor. But y'know, it's sort of a public service and might actually pay some of the bills one of these days! I keep my markups very low and everybody seems to be happy with this system. I even make enough so that it covers my time and gas expenses. No, it doesn't match the full "philosophy" of CSA, in which risks are willingly shared with the farmer. When somebody discovers a really good way to sell that idea to civilians, please let me know! Looking at my statistics above, just about half of my shareholders accepted that idea and in fact proposed it. Notice that it was entirely their choice, not written into the agreement -- there's something about human nature that makes it easier to do the right thing sometimes when it isn't legislated. Anybody else have good ideas for minimizing shareholder risk or selling the idea of sharing the risks? Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 09:46:05 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13618 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:46:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21840 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:40:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04448; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:33:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03861 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:25:19 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dTRDa04840 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:24:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <42f3feee.36f652a0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:24:32 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Using Access for Farm Records (and some other stuff) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 Hokay, I've been a power-user and documentation specialist for Access for several years now. Completely self-taught. Just put together my first multi-table query, linking my list of 700 garden beds (50 blocks of 14 4'x50' beds each) with my list of more than 200 different plant varieties. Omigosh, it worked! What a tool this is going to be, especially when it's time next year to consider crop rotations! I use the Access templates for planning and scheduling workshops and events, keeping member lists, and organizing newsletter articles, recipes, and press releases. Some day my website will get organized in a relational database, too. Between the power of the new Access templates and being able to use Word to design and read web pages, it was worth it to me to shell out $600 of my limited personal funds for Office 97 a couple of months ago. And my computer is going in to the shop next week (aarrrghgh, a whole week) for some minor repair (bolt came off the printer port -- I found my 4-switch box and it's going to be installed so I'm not futzing with the back of the CPU any more) and professional cleanup and Y2K prep. So a big part of this week's work is 100% total backup onto the zip drive disks. Ugh, not my favorite way to spend a day. I'm a little irritated; I had this computer professionally built to my specs and it was supposed to have at least three printer ports. It's got one and two other useless connections. I'm picking up six bottle babies the day after Easter (three doelings, one wether, and two lambs), so this week I'm shoveling and scrubbing the chicken coop to put it into service as a nursery for their two or three-week introduction period (I never put new animals with the existing herd and sometimes keep traveling herd members separate for a couple of weeks when they return from an event -- and don't have disease problems and intend to keep it that way). All feed and weight gain and health observation and treatment records go into my trusty Access files, then summary information goes into QuickBooks Pro. If I wanted to spend more time at the computer and less starting seeds or playing with two-week-old baby goats and four yearling wethers who are b*tchy because I haven't opened that door into summer and the babies are getting so much attention, I could probably set up everything straight from Access. Soon I'll be feeding data straight into QuickBooks Pro, just downloaded the first quarter's banking data straight in but haven't started goofing with it yet. Just in case the computer goes oopsie, I also keep all financial data and important records such as innoculation and breeding and training records in a weekly bookkeeping hardcopy book. I can carry it with me and write down information as transactions happen, makes it very convenient for data entry once a day or at the end of the week. Yes I do too have time to pull weeds. But give me 48 hours notice before walking through the house. I'm saving the world, not working for a housekeeping award. PS -- on that note -- one of my best new products is a place mat that says "Martha Stewart Doesn't Live Here!" !! So I guess I'm not alone in the housekeeping thing. Don't tell anybody, but it's the real reason I'm installing a chemical toilet out in the field -- so visitors don't have an excuse to look inside the house. I keep soap and a stand with a pitcher of water and basin next to the little house under the pear trees. Note: chemical toilets can be rented for the summer or purchased used and pumped when needed. This is also A Good Thing when I have lots of visitors (we don't need an overloaded septic) and when lots of them are strangers, especially young ones, and I don't know how light their fingers might be. Just the realities of opening one's farm to the public. Prevention is better than prosecution. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 12:42:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17713 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:42:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07540 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA19077; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:29:08 -0600 (CST) Received: from dinonet1.dinonet.it ([194.21.93.40]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18933 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:27:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from lbetti ([194.21.93.112]) by dinonet1.dinonet.it (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11205) with SMTP id AAB234 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:27:34 +0100 Message-Id: X-Sender: lbetti@mail.dinonet.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:20:12 +0100 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Gabriele Betti Subject: how to find members for an EcoVillage community? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 Hi, I'm trying to set up an EcoVillage in Italy, Tuscany. I'd like to rent a big country house in one of the thousand wonderfull places around there(Tuscany, Chianti wine and so on..) with some land and make a bed & breakfast and a centre for social assistance ...in cooperation with local coop for example, and bio-agricolture... Do you know where I could start with this project from? Internet job sites? Local pages about job offers? Seasonal jobs..? Thanks, Gabriele Betti lbetti@dinonet.it From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 15:10:04 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14634 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:10:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA02591; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:06:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02441 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:04:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from [128.114.172.235] (dhcp-172-36.UCSC.EDU [128.114.172.235]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id MAA08656 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:04:28 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: csafarm@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:10:40 -0800 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: David Oretsky Subject: hello Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 2688 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 Hi there, I've finally joined the CSA listserv and would like to introduce myself. My name is Nancy Vail and my husband is David Oretsky. We are both currently running the CSA program here at the UC Santa Cruz Farm & Garden with the hopes of eventually locating land and beginning our own CSA farm. Each spring 35-40 people from around the world come to the Farm & Garden to take part in the six-month Apprenticeship in Ecological Horticulture, offered through the Center for Agroecology & Sustainable Food Systems. Under the direction of the training staff, apprentices manage the 25-acre Farm and 2-acre Alan Chadwick Garden, learning to grow and care for a variety of vegetables, fruits, herbs and flowers using organic methods. Now in our 5th year, the CSA program offers 40 full and 40 half shares. We mainly target the University community. All members pick up at the farm and there's a self serve herb and flower garden for CSA members to use to supplement their boxes. With a combination of classes, guest lectures, field trips and hands on practical training, apprentices gain the necessary skills to begin their careers in farming. Since the program began in 1967 over 700 graduates have gone on to start their own CSA farms, work in community gardens, participate in overseas development projects , school gardens, on-farm training programs, etc... The Apprenticehip is part of UCSC's Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems. Center staff and faculty work to research, develop and advance sustainable food and agricultural systems which are environmentally sound, economically viable, socially responsible, nonexploitative and which serve as a foundation for future generations. Center staff conduct research as well as offer an extensive public education program. At present, the Apprenticeship program generates most of its own funding through produce sales, apprentice tuition, and public events. To continue and to expand its work, the Apprenticeship is seeking support from foundations, businesses and individuals who share our commitment to working toward a more sustainable agriculture. For more information about the Apprenticeship, CSA, and the Center please write or call: The Center for Agroecology & Sustainable Food Systems (CASFS) 1156 High St. University of California Santa Cruz, CA 95064 Apprenticeship tel (831) 459-4140 CSA tel (831) 459-3336 fax (831) 459-2799 web page http://zzyx.ucsc.edu/casfs Looking forward to sharing information! Sincerely, Nancy Vail Nancy Vail and David Oretsky CSA Coordinators Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems University of California at Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, CA 95064 (408)459-3336 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 15:31:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21190 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:31:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA04672; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:30:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04468 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:28:57 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA05594; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:28:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-16.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.48) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005488; Mon Mar 22 14:27:21 1999 Message-ID: <012e01be74a2$31e27040$27a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:25:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1576 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 > Dori wrote: >No, it doesn't match the full "philosophy" of CSA, in which risks are >willingly shared with the farmer. When somebody discovers a really good way >to sell that idea to civilians, please let me know! Looking at my statistics >above, just about half of my shareholders accepted that idea and in fact >proposed it. Notice that it was entirely their choice, not written into the >agreement -- there's something about human nature that makes it easier to do >the right thing sometimes when it isn't legislated. > >Anybody else have good ideas for minimizing shareholder risk or selling the >idea of sharing the risks? > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com > > We felt uncomfortable with the sharing the risk aspect of CSA as well. It make "philosophical" sense but doesn't make good business sense especially when its your first year and you hope your members will return and bring more members. I have never mentioned this risk thing in my flyer. We decided if we bombed we would refund their money. Thank goodness the odds on bombing aren't high and our garden was beautiful. I think all people realize that one crop may not do well and won't have a fit if they get a few less of one thing. Our cucumbers were our only crop that wasn't great although I think I made quota. We forgot to plant the parsnips no one even asked. On my flyer this year under amount of garlic I wrote new crop see how it grows. Didn't want to promise. But we will all have a good year this year! Beth From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Mar 21 22:52:31 1999 -0500 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07476 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:52:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25063 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:46:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11252; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:39:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from gwgate.lib.iastate.edu (gwgate.lib.iastate.edu [129.186.11.21]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11204 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from Parks_Library-Message_Server by gwgate.lib.iastate.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:54 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:38:48 -0600 From: "Jeff Hall" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Cc: boblkbns@www.mebbs.com Subject: Re: haven't heard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id VAA11205 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 Hi Ron, you might want to plug into a group called the Iowa Network for Community Agriculture. Jan Libbey is the coordinator, her email is libland@kalnet.com. Its a group that came out of several CSA's starting up, with connections to other local food initiatives. Where are you farming/selling? Jeff Hall, Interesting Times Permaculture Garden Elkhart, IA, US >>> "Ron Boyer" 03/20 5:37 AM >>> I haven't heard from anyone in the last day or two so I was wondering if the list was down this is my first letter. I am Ron Boyer from Boyer Black Beans in Iowa.I don't have a CSA but I do raise dry beans and I think later on in the season we should be able to help each other out particularly in the midwest.I have a web page that is not completed yet but if you are interested it is www.blackbeans.com I hope you check it out and I am sure I will be talking to you. PS I farm about 500 acres but I have some of the same problems you have(deer and profits) it has been interesting see you approach to these problem among others Ron Boyer From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 22 23:11:11 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23539 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA07927; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:07:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07788 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:06:12 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dXMOa03692 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:59:13 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <5a508908.36f71191@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:59:13 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1512 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 >> It makes "philosophical" sense but doesn't make good business sense especially when its your first year and you hope your members will return and bring more members. I have never mentioned this risk thing in my flyer.>> Shame, shame, shame! As organic farmers my family's income has dropped to 20% of the income we enjoyed treating diseases rather than preventing them. The wise consumer understands the hard work and low pay farmers must commit to in order to support their community. Responsible planning, a strong work ethic and responsiveness to feedback are all we guarantee our share holders. We have every subscriber sign a one paragraph contract that reads; "As a member of Ocean Sky Farm CSA I understand that I am making a financial obligation for the 1999 season. I accept the inherent risks of farming and thereby receive no guarantee on the amounts of produce that I will receive. It is my responsibility to either pick up my subscription or make other arrangements for pick up on the designated pick up day." Although we have had a crop failure or two, our subscribers feel that they are getting a good deal. They keep coming back and referring their friends to the CSA. We don't understand why farmers feel they must promise good weather and harvests. Its a dance. Sometimes your toes get stepped on. Sometimes you step on other people's toes. But it is still enjoyable for every participant. Relax, do your best and be sincere. Your subscribers will understand. Art Biggert From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 06:14:28 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA16248 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:14:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA22720; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 05:12:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22654 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 05:11:35 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dCKVa28778 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:10:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:10:45 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 3094 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 Do note that almost half of last year's membership volunteered to share the drought losses with me and I didn't even ask. They're keepers! Mindset here in a very rural piece of Upstate New York is very different from the mindset in the Pacific Northwest, which is in general more progressive in its thinking and more understanding/accepting of the concept that "community" means more than "location". I tried for three years in a row to hang on to the formal "I'm sharing the risk with the farmer" clause in the shareholder agreement -- and had a devil of a time getting _anybody_ to sign up. Took it out and went to the escrow/wholesale-as-a-backup method and my business is exploding. Of course, maybe it's just Y2K fever. And maybe a few more people are understanding the truth of "Pay your organic farmer or pay your oncologist." But they still don't want to hear that message and as the _only_ organic farmer in this area I have to be a little bit careful not to get a reputation for being "strident". I Get It. You Get It. Not everybody is quite as brilliant and intuitive as we are. ;-D So I state the non-controversial truths. My produce tastes wonderful (it does). It's good for you (it is). Buying direct form the farmer helps the farmer and helps the consumer -- the farmer gets more of the dollar and the consumer spends fewer dollars. Around here it's a major victory to get people to consider eating vegetables and real whole food rather than pre-packaged instant microwaveable or fast- food restaurant crud. After I've got them up that first rung of the ladder, then we'll start adding the other messages. In many instances around here, putting up an "organically grown" sign or sticker is actually an _anti_ marketing device. Many people assume it's a) expensive, b) bug-ridden, c) exposed to animal wastes ("dirty") and won't even approach the stand. Yes, yes, I could sell out and move to an area that's more open to the message. And I almost did just that not too long ago. To Whidbey Island near Seattle, in fact. But I've decided that I've been drawn to this place for a reason. It's very obvious that this community needs what I'm doing. Maybe they'll come around, maybe they won't. Until I have enough CSA members to support the farm I'll continue to diversify to an extent that would make anybody crazy and work off- farm jobs where and when I can get them. And I'll continue to grow good dirt here. Harvests are just a bonus from that project. And isn't the statement above about as close as we're going to come to a definitive definition of sustainable agriculture -- even if it's a concept that's real hard to get across to civilians? I'm still taking baby steps here, Art. Give me another ten years and you'll be able to see my pillar of transformational fire all the way from Deception Pass Bridge! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Special membership benefits for long-distance members! http://www.agrove.com/members.html and still looking for a few good apprentices, interns, or partners! From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 07:15:47 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25836 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:15:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA24636; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:13:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24571 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:12:45 -0600 (CST) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D6D43N8H; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:12:24 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:07:27 -0500 Subject: More Monsanto stuff/Soy, allergies and such.... Message-ID: <19990323.070736.-376453.3.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6,8-9,11,13-34,36,38-40,42,44-45,47-54,56,58-63,65-66,68-72,74,76,78-79,81,83,85-87,89-90,92-96,98-99,101,103,105-106,108-120 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 4718 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 >From another list..... > > Hi! > > Since many of you (and me too!) pay attention to allergic, intolerance, or > toxic reactions to foods, I thought that this article from the UK may be > of interest. It discussions genetically-engineered soy and possible > adverse effect being seen in humans. Avoiding non-organic soy ingredients > (where possible) can eliminate the risks discussed in the article. Organic > foods are safer and healthier in general, in my opinion. Of course, > they're not always available. :-) > > --------------- > BEGIN ENCLOSURE > --------------- > > First official results of the global experiment are in - soya allergies > dramatically increased in the last year. Prime > suspect - GM soya! Stand up Monsanto - where is your insurance??? > We wait eagerly for the Health Ministers rebuttal. > York Nutritional Laboratory has had a busy day on the phone, but if the > media in your country want to follow this up they > are happy to be contacted. > Tel: +44 1904 690640 > > Daily Express 12 March 99 > Why soya is a hidden destroyer > > Exclusive by Mark Townsend > > Fresh fears over the safety of genetically modified foods surfaced faced > yesterday after new research revealed that food allergies relating to soya > Increased by 50 per cent last year > > A study by Europe's leading specialists on food sensitivity found health > complaints caused by soya - the ingredient most associated with GM foods - > have increased from 10 in 100 patients to 15 in 100 over the past year. > Researchers at the York Nutritional Laboratory said their findings provide > real evidence that GM food could have a tangible, harmful impact on the > human body > > The findings were sent to Health Secretary Frank Dobson last night as > scientists urged the Government to act on the information and impose an > instant ban on GM food, while further safety tests are carried out. Dr > Michael Antoniou, senior lecturer in molecular pathology at Guy's > Hospital, Central London,, said: "This is a very interesting if slightly > worrying, development. "It points to the fact that far more work is needed > to assess their safety. At the moment no allergy tests are carried out > before GM foods are marketed and that also needs to be looked at." > > John Graham, spokesman for the York laboratory, said: "We believe this > raises serious new questions about the safety of GM foods because it is > impossible to guarantee that the soya used in the tests was GM-free." It > is the first time in 17 years of testing that soya has crept into the > laboratory's top 10 foods to cause an allergic reaction in consumers. The > vegetable has moved up four places to ninth end now sits alongside > foodstuffs with a long history of causing allergies, such as yeast, > sunflower seeds and nuts > > Mr. Graham said researchers tested 4,500 people for allergic reactions to > vegetables including soya. Among the range of chronic illnesses it caused > were irritable bowel syndrome, digestiontion problems and skin complaints > including acne and eczema. "People also suffered neurological problems > with chronic fatigue syndrome, headaches and lethargy. It is worrying," Mr > Graham added. Researchers measured the levels of antibodies in a person's > blood. If increased levels were detected it showed the person suffered an > adverse reaction to a particular food. > > Soya, the wonder crop of the 20th century is found in 60 per cent of all > processed foods sold in the UK - from bread to baby food, ready-to-eat > curries to vegetarian lasagne. But because GM and natural soya are mixed > at source in America - the world's biggest supplier - it has become > increasingly difficult for retailers to guarantee the purity of any > products. > > Last month campaigners from Greenpeace dumped four tons of GM soya beans > from America at the gates of Downing Street in protest. The Consumers' > Association yesterday renewed its demand for the Government to investigate > the safety of GM foods. A spokesman said: "We just don't know what health > problems could arise in the future. Waitrose yesterday announced that it > would be stocking its own-label GM-free foods by the end of the month. > Managing director David Felwick said: "We believe customers should be able > to make an informed choice about the products they are buying." > > ------------ - -- Debbie McDonald mailto:lullwatr@flash.net ------------------------------ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 10:16:34 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06863 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:16:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05295; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:14:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05160 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:13:38 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id sIDIa03225 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:12:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e07fb09.36f7af58@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:12:24 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 695 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 << But I've decided that I've been drawn to this place for a reason. It's very obvious that this community needs what I'm doing. Maybe they'll come around, maybe they won't. Until I have enough CSA members to support the farm I'll continue to diversify to an extent that would make anybody crazy and work off- farm jobs where and when I can get them. >> Though she walks through the valley of death, she will have no fear. It's not hard to see Spirit working here. Spirit is wherever one finds love, co-creation and free will. Fortunately, Spirit challenges us only to the point that we can handle. Bless you and keep that transformational fire burning. Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 11:27:23 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24439 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:27:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11384; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:25:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11291 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:25:20 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA25714; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:24:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-21.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.53) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025560; Tue Mar 23 10:23:28 1999 Message-ID: <001601be7549$42478b80$35a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:21:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 2544 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 Dori wrote:(I have snipped some of the post) > >Mindset here in a very rural piece of Upstate New York is very different from >the mindset in the Pacific Northwest, which is in general more progressive in >its thinking and more understanding/accepting of the concept that "community" >means more than "location". > >I > >So I state the non-controversial truths. My produce tastes wonderful (it >does). It's good for you (it is). Buying direct form the farmer helps the >farmer and helps the consumer -- the farmer gets more of the dollar and the >consumer spends fewer dollars. > >Around here it's a major victory to get people to consider eating vegetables >and real whole food rather than pre-packaged instant microwaveable or fast- >food restaurant crud. After I've got them up that first rung of the ladder, >then we'll start adding the other messages. > >>But I've decided that I've been drawn to this place for a reason. It's very >obvious that this community needs what I'm doing. Maybe they'll come around, >maybe they won't. Until I have enough CSA members to support the farm I'll >continue to diversify to an extent that would make anybody crazy and work off- >farm jobs where and when I can get them. >And isn't the statement above about as close as we're going to come to a >definitive definition of sustainable agriculture -- even if it's a concept >that's real hard to get across to civilians? > >I'm still taking baby steps here, Art. Give me another ten years and you'll >be able to see my pillar of transformational fire all the way from Deception >Pass Bridge! > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > I agree with everything that Dori wrote. Although I live in the flip side of her local ie rural vs suburban. We are a bit of an oasis in suburbia, as Doris says they haven't got it yet. Things around her are to anonymous and convenient. Half dozen grocery stores, in summer various conventional farm stands, plus two income busy people hesitant to try any new concept. We like Dori are taking baby steps, off farm jobs have been kept. We are trying to develop a reputation for quality and I suppose quantity. I feel like we are standing on Jello we've got a few years of tenuous business struggle but I am optimistic that some day when people hear Green Hill Farm they say "Thats a great place" Now they say "There is a farm in Shrewsbury?" So Art count your blessings and as Dori said before we must be Sustainable to continue on to that bright "get it " future. Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 12:56:15 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18075 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA17993; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:53:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17919 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:53:11 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dNEJa20204 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:49:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <150010e5.36f7d430@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:49:36 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sharing Risk for CSAs: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1122 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 In a message dated 3/23/99 10:14:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCook21809@aol.com writes: << Though she walks through the valley of death, she will have no fear. >> ...because she is the Herd Boss and the meanest cast-iron B**ch in this here valley! My heroes are Xena, Judge Judy, Della Reese, and Emma Peel! Hey, let's not kid ourselves. The Environment sometimes needs us to be warriors even if we do choose to be peaceful ones. BTW, consider for just one moment that maybe there is no such thing as Death, that it's just a threat that those who choose to oppress us invented to hold over our heads. Once we expand our thinking to include that possibility there is absolutely _nothing_ that can frighten us or turn us aside from the path we know is right. Lots of people are into CSA because it's a great marketing tool. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. And some of us are out to change the world; it's a good tool for that, too. It ain't an easy path all the time, but it's sure a satisfying one! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 13:43:04 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01066 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:43:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22264; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:38:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from ic4.ithaca.edu (ic4.ithaca.edu [147.129.1.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22167 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:37:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from ithaca.edu (ic069163.ithaca.edu [147.129.69.163]) by ic4.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #30132) with ESMTP id <01J966O6A0DA00056W@ic4.ithaca.edu> for csa-l@prairienet.org; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:37:13 EST Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:39:43 -0500 From: Debbie Teeter Subject: Re: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders To: csa-l@prairienet.org Message-id: <36F7DFEE.9CAF3B4F@ithaca.edu> Organization: Ithaca College MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_qpLhSDIt2p6x/YljL8/BvA)" References: <39452ec0.36f64bb1@aol.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 12687 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 --Boundary_(ID_qpLhSDIt2p6x/YljL8/BvA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Interesting thread - I've enjoyed reading other folks' comments! Dori has definately hit upon something that works for her and her shareholders - you go, girl! When we first started, we talked about risk in terms of serious-to-total crop loss due to potentially "bad" weather. Experience has taught us that although there can be "bad" weather if you're monocropping, the crop variety with CSA has shown us that certain weather conditions can be "bad" for some crops and "good" for others. So now we talk about risk in terms of what we plan to give and how weather conditions might impact that plan. Our take is that the risk in CSA is that you might not get as much of your favorite veggies as you hoped, and may wind up with lots of something(s) you don't particularly care for. A question for Art: Do you sign something for your shareholders as well promising to do what is necessary to ensure a harvest (i.e. ordering your seeds in a timely manner, starting your seedlings on time, transplnating on time, weeding, watering, etc. - responsibly farming stuff)? > "As a member of Ocean Sky Farm CSA I understand that I am making a financial obligation for the 1999 season. I accept the inherent risks of farming and thereby receive no guarantee on the amounts of produce that I will receive. It is my responsibility to either pick up my subscription or make other arrangements for pick up on the designated pick up day." I'm not being critical, just wondering. We don't have our shareholders sign anything formal, but we do talk about risks (as outlined above) and responsibility, which is where we cover the "please pick up your stuff each week" issue. We also talk about our responsibilities as farmers to act as stewards of the land and also to plan, organize and do our job right so if there is a shortage it won't be because we never got around to planting something, or we went on vacation and the weeds got out of control, etc... We've heard some real horror stories about CSA's that failed because the farmer was inexperienced or negligient. An experience like that makes it real hard for a folks to "trust" again. We've got several shareholders this year with that exact background (their experience was not necessarily from around here), and they came to us because we've been at it a few years and could provide references. Hmm... that's a little off topic, but I guess my question for Art was to determine whether or not he sees responsibility as going both ways, and if so does he cover his responsiblities to shareholders in a similar way to what he requires from them (I'm asking this with a smile - sometimes things in print don't come across the way you mean them). Thanks for your time, Debbie Teeter A.J. Teeter Farm Ithaca NY DGreen47@aol.com wrote: > I've devised two ways to do this -- because let's face it, if people were into > delayed gratification and risk the way we are, they'd be farmers too and we > wouldn't have a social need for CSAs! > > 1) Half of every shareholder fee goes into an escrow account, no matter what > the temptation might be to spend it on needful things or reimburse me for > operating expenses already laid out. This way if I have to I can fill the > weekly orders through wholesale purchases. I have shareholders specify if > they require only 100% chemical-free produce and if so I make sure that's what > they get, otherwise I use my network of other neighboring farmers and > wholesale suppliers. I buy some from them every week, mostly to fill in the > farm market stands and also to keep a relationship working. > > 2) If the absolutely worst case scenario happens and there's a total crop > failure here at the farm and it's so bad that the escrow money can't replace > the shares even at wholesale, shareholders receive a credit to be applied to > the next year. Last year's drought coupled with a demanding full-time job and > unreliable hired help (as in never showing up when they said they would) hit > my garden pretty hard last season, and I ended up offering replacement or > credits to my members. Out of 12 (I was running on minimum to start with), > only two took credits. Five told me to forget about it, they felt like they > had received their money's worth. Five accepted replacements, and the escrow > account covered it easily. > > Needless to say, I ended up not making any money on the garden last year > (except for the edible pansy bed, which was a huge success). But without > losing any money either, I covered my credibility nicely and reducing the risk > factor this way makes it a _lot_ easier to recruit new members for this our > major expansion year (going from about two cultivated acres to about eight, > yikes). > > I didn't get into this game with the idea of becoming a distributor. But > y'know, it's sort of a public service and might actually pay some of the bills > one of these days! I keep my markups very low and everybody seems to be happy > with this system. I even make enough so that it covers my time and gas > expenses. > > No, it doesn't match the full "philosophy" of CSA, in which risks are > willingly shared with the farmer. When somebody discovers a really good way > to sell that idea to civilians, please let me know! Looking at my statistics > above, just about half of my shareholders accepted that idea and in fact > proposed it. Notice that it was entirely their choice, not written into the > agreement -- there's something about human nature that makes it easier to do > the right thing sometimes when it isn't legislated. > > Anybody else have good ideas for minimizing shareholder risk or selling the > idea of sharing the risks? > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com --Boundary_(ID_qpLhSDIt2p6x/YljL8/BvA) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Interesting thread - I've enjoyed reading other folks' comments!

Dori has definately hit upon something that works for her and her shareholders - you go, girl!

When we first started, we talked about risk in terms of serious-to-total crop loss due to potentially "bad" weather.  Experience has taught us that although there can be "bad" weather if you're monocropping, the crop variety with CSA has shown us that certain weather conditions can be "bad" for some crops and "good" for others.  So now we talk about risk in terms of what we plan to give and how weather conditions might impact that plan.  Our take is that the risk in CSA is that you might not get as much of your favorite veggies as you hoped, and may wind up with lots of something(s) you don't particularly care for.

A question for Art:  Do you sign something for your shareholders as well promising to do what is necessary to ensure a harvest (i.e. ordering your seeds in a timely manner, starting your seedlings on time, transplnating on time, weeding, watering, etc. - responsibly farming stuff)?

   > "As a member of Ocean Sky Farm CSA I understand that I am making a financial
obligation for the 1999 season.  I accept the inherent risks of farming and
thereby receive no guarantee on the amounts of produce that I will receive.
It is my responsibility to either pick up my subscription or make other
arrangements for pick up on the designated pick up day."

I'm not being critical, just wondering.  We don't have our shareholders sign anything formal, but we do talk about risks (as outlined above) and responsibility, which is where we cover the "please pick up your stuff each week" issue.  We also talk about our responsibilities as farmers to act as stewards of the land and also to plan, organize and do our job right so if there is a shortage it won't be because we never got around to planting something, or we went on vacation and the weeds got out of control, etc...  We've heard some real horror stories about CSA's that failed because the farmer was inexperienced or negligient.  An experience like that makes it real hard for a folks to "trust" again.  We've got several shareholders this year with that exact background (their experience was not necessarily from around here), and they came to us because we've been at it a few years and could provide references.

Hmm... that's a little off topic, but I guess my question for Art was to determine whether or not he sees responsibility as going both ways, and if so does he cover his responsiblities to shareholders in a similar way to what he requires from them (I'm asking this with a smile - sometimes things in print don't come across the way you mean them).

Thanks for your time,

Debbie Teeter
A.J. Teeter Farm
Ithaca NY
 
 
 
 

DGreen47@aol.com wrote:

I've devised two ways to do this -- because let's face it, if people were into
delayed gratification and risk the way we are, they'd be farmers too and we
wouldn't have a social need for CSAs!  <G>

1)  Half of every shareholder fee goes into an escrow account, no matter what
the temptation might be to spend it on needful things or reimburse me for
operating expenses already laid out.  This way if I have to I can fill the
weekly orders through wholesale purchases.  I have shareholders specify if
they require only 100% chemical-free produce and if so I make sure that's what
they get, otherwise I use my network of other neighboring farmers and
wholesale suppliers.  I buy some from them every week, mostly to fill in the
farm market stands and also to keep a relationship working.

2)  If the absolutely worst case scenario happens and there's a total crop
failure here at the farm and it's so bad that the escrow money can't replace
the shares even at wholesale, shareholders receive a credit to be applied to
the next year.  Last year's drought coupled with a demanding full-time job and
unreliable hired help (as in never showing up when they said they would) hit
my garden pretty hard last season, and I ended up offering replacement or
credits to my members.  Out of 12 (I was running on minimum to start with),
only two took credits.  Five told me to forget about it, they felt like they
had received their money's worth.  Five accepted replacements, and the escrow
account covered it easily.

Needless to say, I ended up not making any money on the garden last year
(except for the edible pansy bed, which was a huge success).  But without
losing any money either, I covered my credibility nicely and reducing the risk
factor this way makes it a _lot_ easier to recruit new members for this our
major expansion year (going from about two cultivated acres to about eight,
yikes).

I didn't get into this game with the idea of becoming a distributor.  But
y'know, it's sort of a public service and might actually pay some of the bills
one of these days!  I keep my markups very low and everybody seems to be happy
with this system.  I even make enough so that it covers my time and gas
expenses.

No, it doesn't match the full "philosophy" of CSA, in which risks are
willingly shared with the farmer.  When somebody discovers a really good way
to sell that idea to civilians, please let me know!  Looking at my statistics
above, just about half of my shareholders accepted that idea and in fact
proposed it.  Notice that it was entirely their choice, not written into the
agreement -- there's something about human nature that makes it easier to do
the right thing sometimes when it isn't legislated.

Anybody else have good ideas for minimizing shareholder risk or selling the
idea of sharing the risks?

Dori Green
Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living
Corning, NY

http://www.agrove.com

  --Boundary_(ID_qpLhSDIt2p6x/YljL8/BvA)-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Mar 23 17:00:40 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20543 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:00:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA12976; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:58:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12867 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:57:37 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dKMDa00355 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:52:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:52:23 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 748 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 Deb Teeter pointed out quite rightly that "bad" weather for some crops is "good" for others, so diversification rather than monocropping tends by its very nature to minimize risk to shareholders (and farmers). Hee hee, I've got a few members who've been in on this with me from my meager start in 1991. Anybody else here old enough to remember the Big Muddy of 1992 when the temps even in moderate parts of the Northeast never got higher than 70? I'm under threat of slow and agonizing death by a few of those folks if I ever again give them Swiss Chard in quantities even close to those of that season. Success can be dangerous, too! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 11:18:59 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05557 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08369; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:16:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08265 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:15:06 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dOKAa13701 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:07:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:07:23 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: CSA & Homesteading Workshop Weekend Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 2172 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 WHEN: June 18-20, 1999 WHERE: Ash Grove Community Farm, Corning NY WHAT: Buncha workshops. Want to teach one? I've got professionals coming in, too. I'll teach some, but not all! Possible workshops include the following. Vote now! Fencing Field Shelters Goats Poultry Grants CSA Creation & Maintenance Organic gardening Certification Marketing Wildcrafting Garden structures Old house repair Making herbal products Alliances and Private-label sales Farm markets Market gardening (not always the same as organic gardening) Instant garden with permanent raised beds Agro-forestry Animal rescue Field trips to a meat goat farm, Draper Super Bee Apiary, a goat dairy, a monastery sheep operation, a cement statue manufacturer, a u-pick strawberry farm (ice cream, anyone?) and a very successful diversified farm/greenhouse/ice cream parlor business. If it's worth an extra $10 to enough folks, I can hire my friend Ed and his team to take y'all on the one-hour "around the block" tour. He requires $300 for an afternoon (includes all of the exhorbitant insurances). Anybody who takes the accommodations option and wishes to do so may add a day or two to the beginning or end of the weekend for $50 per day (including meals), in order to enjoy the many attractions of this area. We need to know right away if folks want to do this. If we get at least ten (and they have room), accommodations will be at Watson Homestead Conference and Retreat Center near Corning. If they're full by the time we get their minimum number assembled, we'll find someplace else -- we're blessed with quite a few options! HOW MUCH: $200 with meals and hotel-type accommodations Fri. & Sat. nights $150 with meals and hotel-type accommodations Sat. night only $100 with meals if you find your own accommodations $50 if you find your own accommodations and provide own meals $100 deposit required ASAP to reserve accommodations. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 11:50:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13876 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10778; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:49:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10723 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:48:58 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dMWTa13700 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:44:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:44:01 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Minimizing Risk for Shareholders Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 2008 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 << Do you sign something for your shareholders as well promising to do what is necessary to ensure a harvest (i.e. ordering your seeds in a timely manner, starting your seedlings on time, transplanting on time, weeding, watering, etc. - responsibly farming stuff)? >> Right on Debbie! In my attempts to be brief I over look important details in these threads. Your attention to them is greatly appreciated. ;-) Yes we make a similar one paragraph commitment to our subscribers. "Your CSA Subscription supports open green space, recycling, local organic agriculture and real health care reform. Our goal is to provide a $20.00 bag of groceries a week to subscribers. There are some inherent risks associated with farming that may temper these benefits. However, the diversity of Ocean Sky Farm produce makes occasional crop losses more of a disappointment than a food value loss." We are able to start the season in April because we have things like honey and dried tomatoes from last fall. We also distribute fresh prepared horse radish, herbal soaps and skin cream samples when spring is late. We start sending out monthly newsletters to all subscribers in January that describe what is growing, when the green houses went up, how the seedlings are doing in the seed room and how current weather is affecting the farm. The newsletter becomes a weekly item during the CSA season. Beth's comments on reputation cannot be taken seriously enough. We give tours to all of the schools in the City of Bainbridge Island and others. We give classes at local nurseries, Granges, the county solid waste department and the Cooperative Extension Service. The best way to build a reputation is to nurture one in public. We have a huge swing set, massive sand box and a couple of jungle gyms for kids to play on as visitors take self guided tours. Adults and their kids need to be entertained before you can inform them in this culture. Now I gotta go farm....... Art From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Mar 24 07:49:54 1999 -0500 Received: from toucan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (toucan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA00700 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:49:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [38.27.198.209] (ip209.minneapolis6.mn.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.198.209]) by toucan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA20214 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:43:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903241243.EAA20214@toucan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:45:19 -0600 Subject: Re: farm liability insurance From: "David Washburn" To: Larry London Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 Everett, We do have product liability, as well as, regular liability through Farm Bureau. I'll check to make sure it covers our food. I know we are covered for the equipment. You are a named insured. --- Regards, David Washburn RED CARDINAL FARM, Inc. dba BCS Metro phone (651) 653-8038; fax (651)653-3556; cell (612)366-1458 ---------- >From: Larry London >To: CSA-L@prairienet.org >Subject: Re: farm liability insurance >Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999, 8:22 PM > > >http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden >london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net > >On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > >> Regarding liability insurance, are you really interested in product >> liability insurance (which protects you from a suit brought, say, by >> someone made ill from your produce) or just straight farm liability (which >> protects you from someone tripping over a raised bed and breaking an >> ankle). The former is , as I understand it, hard to get and expensive. >> Especially for food-related items. The latter can be provided by most >> carriers who insure farms (we simply converted a household insurance policy >> to a farm insurance policy with the same company when we started Five >> Springs Farm). But we have not as yet considered product liability. It may >> be prudent, though. > > >I'd suggest getting product liability for your own protection and >for access to markets requiring such insurance (many do). > >Farm Bureau offers PLI and it provides farm liability coverage >as well. Their rates are proportional to the gross annual operation of >your farm operation. For example, a projected $5000 income will set your >insurance rate at around $125 a year. > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 14:48:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26936 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:48:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA25837; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:45:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from killian.chelsea.net ([207.25.36.14]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25628 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:43:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from oemcomputer (amelia-a47.pins.ny.us.chelsea.net [207.25.44.47]) by killian.chelsea.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA11942 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:42:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501be762e$824844a0$2f2c19cf@oemcomputer> From: "Shana Berger" To: Subject: looking for farm apprentices in NY Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:37:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE75FB.65F8D540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 964 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE75FB.65F8D540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Threshold Farm is looking for two apprentices from April- Nov and June through August. Please do not write back to me! Write to: Hugh Williams and Hanna Bail Threshold Farm P.O. Box 701 Claverack, NY 12513 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE75FB.65F8D540 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Just Food.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Just Food.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Food;Just FN:Just Food ORG:Just Food TITLE:CSA Coordinator in NYC TEL;WORK;VOICE:(212) 677-1602 TEL;WORK;FAX:(212) 677-1603 ADR;WORK:;;625 Broadway, Suite 9C;New York;NY;10012-6211 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:625 Broadway, Suite = 9C=3D0D=3D0ANew York, NY 10012-6211 REV:19990324T183702Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE75FB.65F8D540-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 16:04:39 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18039 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA01665; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:02:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp3.jps.net (smtp3.jps.net [209.63.224.129]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01538 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:01:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from jps.net (209-142-38-86.stk.jps.net [209.142.38.86]) by smtp3.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17955 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:06:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F8DF1D.7C1525EC@jps.net> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:48:30 +0000 From: Richard Roth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Contract, program, and survey examples References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 723 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 I really appreciate the posts including excerpts from your contracts. I have never used a contract, but it seems that subscribers would prefer to have some kind of formal process for joining the CSA, so I have started a text file of examples I like. A while back someone posted how they get apprentices, working 4 hours/wk for 24 weeks to earn a SHARE with no SHARE until completing at least 18 weeks. I used it and now have my first apprentice, a long time friend. I'd appreciate more examples of contracts, newsletters, and end of season surveys. I am amazed at how much you guys DO! How do you DO it Dory and Art? Richard Roth rfarm 1318 Bruce Street Chico, CA 95928 Ph:(530) 895-1672 . From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 19:04:12 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03376 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:04:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA15685; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:02:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15589 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:01:24 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dYTTa26763 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:00:06 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:00:06 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Contract, program, and survey examples Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 363 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 In a message dated 3/24/99 4:04:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, rfarm@jps.net writes: << How do you DO it Dory and Art? >> Mostly I let my housework slide into a deep dark pit. I set up a chemical toilet outside so there's no excuse for anybody to see the inside of the house. Of course, the barn is spotless. So nobody guesses. What's your secret, Art? Dori From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 20:08:16 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17307 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:08:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA20386; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:06:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20322 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:05:26 -0600 (CST) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dMOWa03976 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:00:30 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:00:30 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Contract, program, and survey examples Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 523 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 << What's your secret, Art? >> A beautiful wife, passion for co-creation and a type A personality. Our house looks like crap too. Clutter, fading exterior paint, dated interior design and a leaky roof keep us happy to be outside. I've never been with a dying person who said, "Damn, I wish I kept a cleaner house." But I've heard so much other remorseful advice I'd be a fool to ignore it. Besides, the dust of my ancestors resides in the corners of my house and my compost piles. Blessed are the ancestors....Art From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 21:58:21 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11036 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:58:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA26839; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:56:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from web611.mail.yahoo.com (web611.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.178]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA26750 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:55:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990325025540.4095.rocketmail@web611.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.11.68.179] by web611.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:55:40 PST Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:55:40 -0800 (PST) From: jared volpe To: CSA list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 3189 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 I find myself in an interesting predicament. I am much more than an apprentice, but less than an independent farm manager. More like a CSA manager / Apprentice Coordinator / Co-Manager that works with a team of managers. It is not that I can’t run a farm by my lonesome, but I won’t do it. I don’t want to. I want community. More importantly, it is getting late to join the 1999 growing season. I am deeply committed to sustainability and sustainable agriculture in particular. It is for this reason that I have directed my energy to observing the environment and how we exist in it. As Sandra Faber, a scientist at UC Santa Cruz, puts it, “all our telescopes looking billions of light years into space have not found one thing to compare in beauty, complexity or wonder to our own planet Earth.” My goal is to help guide our “moral compass”, providing us with a long term strategy for successfully and sustainably existing here. I have excellent research and organizational skills and am longing for a stage to use them along with my commitment to sustainable agriculture and my agricultural skills. I am very personable and I want to take my experiences ever further, into a realm where I am part of a team of growers, activists, and organizers that run a CSA and education group. I don’t feel that I am currently using my skills to the best of my ability in terms of education and the distribution of information sustainable, etc. Last year I frequented the Catskill Mountains of New York, where I worked as the Production Grower and Assistant Horticulture Therapist at Green Chimneys Children’s Services, a residential treatment facility for emotionally disturbed youth. I was hired as grower at Boni-Bel Farm after one quarter of the season passed me by. The management was in a bind because the previous grower left on short notice, with most of her volunteers. I happened to be in the right place. There were four acres under transitional organic production, whose “mission” was to supply produce and vocational experience for 120 students and any of the 200 staff at the facility. I feel that Green Chimneys started the program to boast an organic farm. I was the fifth grower in the farm’s young five year life, an unsustainable pattern. Unfortunately I wasn’t given a chance or much support and was working alone for most of the season, except for occasional volunteers and classes. Previously I attended graduate school in NYC as a non-matriculated student studying the environmental problems of urban and metropolitan coasts and I did two apprenticeships and worked on local farms. I am very flexible and therefore open to all opportunities that may arise. If you are looking for such an individual or know someone who is please pass on my info or contact me directly. I am glad to furnish a resume and references. Also, I am looking for other sites where I may post this on the net. Thanks for letting me ramble. Jared William Volpe nuarez@yahoo.com e-mail happens to be the best way to reach me 516-756-0037 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 24 22:02:06 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12121 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:02:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA27469; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:00:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27109 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:59:43 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dEOCa13701 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:48:05 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <4482f8c9.36f9a3e5@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:48:05 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The housekeeping of world-savers (was Contract, program, and survey examples Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1765 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 I _do_ sweep, mop, and vacuum often enough to keep my house pets clear of fleas and my asthmatic cat (and self) breathing reasonably well without resorting to rescue inhalers too terribly often. But today I had to pay $8 for a duplicate driver's license because my original ended up in one of those sudden "CLUTTER - PUT ME AWAY" boxes from those days when the @(^@^( real estate agent wouldn't give me the 48 hours' notice I'd contracted for, and called me that day with "a really hot prospect". Swearing all the way, there's nothing I can do but swoosh the clutter into boxes and stack them in a spare room. In six months that man never got the message. The problem with a big 1878 13-room farmhouse lacking housemates is that there are too darn many spare rooms, too much room for those boxes. Someplace there's a box or two full of dirty dishes still unwashed. Better find that one before the hot weather arrives! And I really have to find my buck's registration papers before this year's daughters have babies and the new owners want to register them. I saw them not too long ago, but Cthulhu only knows where they've gotten off to. I thought they were in the file. Oopsie. Like the deed and title, that's a piece of paper that probably ought to live in a bank deposit box. There are now about a dozen CPMA boxes left -- I've unpacked more than 20 of the little stinkers in the past four weeks. And I didn't renew with that agent. If the place goes back on the market, my 48-hour request will be honored or they'll be sorry. And now y'all know why I offer a good chunk off the rent to anybody who's willing to help me keep the house clean. I'd rather be playing in the garden! Dori "She Who Must Be Obeyed" Green by real estate agents, anyway From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 25 08:25:01 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12089 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:25:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20112; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:21:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from ic4.ithaca.edu (ic4.ithaca.edu [147.129.1.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20048 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:20:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from ithaca.edu (ic069163.ithaca.edu [147.129.69.163]) by ic4.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #30132) with ESMTP id <01J98O6WAW10000A7L@ic4.ithaca.edu> for csa-L@prairienet.org; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:20:16 EST Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:22:47 -0500 From: Debbie Teeter Subject: Thanks for the laugh To: csa-L@prairienet.org Message-id: <36FA38A7.A5574B46@ithaca.edu> Organization: Ithaca College MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 979 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 Dori & Art - I'll be laughing the rest of the day about your responses - someone once told me "all farm houses look this way" in response to a mortified "sorry the house is such a wreck" when someone surprised me inside. Great idea about the toilet, Dori - that's one I can never quite get around - "uh, the bathroom? uh, sure... through the kitchen and past the laundry room (use your imagination)". Debbie SCook21809@aol.com wrote: > << What's your secret, Art? >> > > A beautiful wife, passion for co-creation and a type A personality. Our house > looks like crap too. Clutter, fading exterior paint, dated interior design > and a leaky roof keep us happy to be outside. I've never been with a dying > person who said, "Damn, I wish I kept a cleaner house." But I've heard so > much other remorseful advice I'd be a fool to ignore it. Besides, the dust of > my ancestors resides in the corners of my house and my compost piles. Blessed > are the ancestors....Art From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 25 11:36:26 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27101 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:36:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA04328; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:31:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04258 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:31:16 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA01163; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:30:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-194.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.194) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001133; Thu Mar 25 10:30:28 1999 Message-ID: <004701be76dc$8da78000$c2fa6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Debbie Teeter" , Subject: Re: Thanks for the laugh Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:28:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1324 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 Debbie wrote: Dori & Art - I'll be laughing the rest of the day about your responses - someone once told me "all farm houses look this way" in response to a mortified "sorry the house is such a wreck" when someone surprised me inside. Great idea about the toilet, Dori - that's one I can never quite get around - "uh, the bathroom? uh, sure... through the kitchen and past the laundry room (use your imagination)". Debbie I join you in laughing. I have never been neat, I genuinely don't understand how anyone "naturally" keeps their house neat. I live in a continous cycle of trashed binge clean trashed binge clean.........LOL about "uh, the bathroom" you have to walk through the kitchen to get to it ah! Our farm was put in a Massachusetts directory and listed a bit wrong. I told her the only thing we offer is tours by appointment (time to clean). I didn't notice but it listed us a farm stand, public bathroom etc. Two ladies showed up from the Boston area they wanted to paint, which I thought was cool and said ok, but they both had to go to the bathroom. Well the bathroom was recently remodeled so it looks ok, but the kitchen. I was cleaning it so it wasn't as bad a usual in fact I thought the vacum cleaner spralled out across the floor was a nice touch. Don't even mention springtime mud! Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Mar 25 12:55:09 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16641 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:55:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA11255; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:53:08 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11159 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:52:20 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dFPPa18039 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:36:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <685fee1b.36fa7430@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:36:48 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Thanks for the laugh Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1980 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 In a message dated 3/25/99 11:32:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, guldann@ix.netcom.com writes: << Don't even mention springtime mud! >> What mud? My barn and farm and gardens are spotless all of the time, mud isn't allowed, all of those city folk who show up to dance through the fields in their high heels and sandals are perfectly enthralled with the pristeen and sanitary conditions here. There, I can lie just like a politician. Reality: BIG sign next to the parking area: This is an organic farm. Watch where you step. Hint for what it's worth: A few fork-fulls of hay and other stuff from the barn does a good job of slip- proofing a slick clay path. Spread about 6" thick on the front lawn for a couple of weeks right at spring thaw time it also does a great job of killing grass so you can plant more edible flowers. (Hey, if you can find a restaurant nearby and can deliver daily, $1 an ounce is a price they'll often jump at. Really a good item if you've got children looking for something to do -- four-year-olds have this penchant for picking flowers without the stems, so many visitors toddle up to me with big handfuls and big smiles of stem-less tulips every year. Catch 'em being good, steer them toward the pansy bed.) Dori's freebie marketing tip for the day. Not just talking through my hat here -- a 10x10' bed of pansies cost me about $100 to set up from transplants, about another $100 for paid helpers to help dig the bed and plant the flowers when my knee threw a fit. Sales to just one restaurant netted (not grossed) more than $600 after subtracting those expenses. Believe me, those babies were carefully mulched for the winter. Speaking of which, it's time to rake off the mulch tomorrow. I bought a lot of pansy seed this year, and will be growing a goodly number of them in raised trays so I can harvest more easily. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 07:57:31 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09276 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA13326; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:56:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13241 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:55:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from busson (akr-romp-56-46.raex.com [204.42.56.46]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20674 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:56:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be7787$a6c57000$2e382acc@busson> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: Dragonfly Farm Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:53:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1056 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 Hello all, I have been lurking for a little while and wanted to introduce myself. My name is Carol and we are certified organic for the 5th year now. This is our first year to try a CSA. We have wholesaled most stuff to a couple of local health food stores, and last year successfully tried a near by farmers market. I have a lot of reservations about CSAs but hope it may work out for us. I was encouraged that there was even one other person who is uncomfortable directing folks through the chaos to the bathroom. And I was shocked to learn that maybe we are in competition for "Mud Capital of the World", I was certain we were the only ones! Wondering how all of you found your original customers for your first CSA year. It is unlikely to be the folks in our own neighborhood as they are mostly gardening themselves. I have a letter printed up but I am hung up on distribution of it. Has anyone had success with small weekly newpapers? I know it is getting late in the season. Glad to have connected with this group, Carol Northeast Ohio From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 08:24:38 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15087 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:24:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14733; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:23:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail.bwn.net (bwnmail.bwn.net [209.54.96.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14678 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:23:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from bwn.net [209.141.216.138] by mail.bwn.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.07) id AA784180202; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:24:08 MST Message-ID: <36FB8828.7F14D709@bwn.net> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 06:14:17 -0700 From: Susan Oberle Organization: Oberle Botanical X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA list Subject: New, too Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1495 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 Hi, Thought I'd introduce myself. I found this list awhile back & have also been lurking until I saw the mud & messy house posts! Here I thought I was the only one. The seasonal mess has begun! We're in N. Colorado & have about 2 acres. Our operation is kind of a hybrid CSA/ Delivery service. The land we are on is rented & the owner lives in an adjacent house so it's not appropriate for us to have lots of people on the property. We sell punch cards at 3 levels (individual, couple, family) & keep a weekly telephone message as to what's available that week. If a member is interested, they leave a message & get a delivery. Members subscribe in Feb/March (they get a discount for subscribing in Feb - the season of almost no cash flow) & can also use their punches for plants & Christmas wreaths. This seems to be working pretty well. I made up a brochure & posted them around town; we reached our limit w/in a month. We're not certified organic but follow organic practice for the most part. Our two big no no's are not always buying organic seed & using a slow release fertilizer in the GH. To date, I'm doing this more than full time & my husband still has a regular job & this one as well. Glad to be here & able to learn & share Sue -- ==================================================== Sue Oberle Oberle Botanical 832 Timber Lane Fort Collins, CO 80521 voice:(970) 493-5672 fax: (970) 493-3358 mailto:soberle@bwn.net ==================================================== From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 10:28:41 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17219 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:28:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23872; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:26:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23648 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:24:55 -0600 (CST) From: STannehill@aol.com Received: from STannehill@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dAINa17110 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:22:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <73f6b372.36fba623@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:22:11 EST To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Dragonfly Farm Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1225 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 Dear Carol, As the "computer geek" for a 185 member CSA that is going into it's 4th year, perhaps I can help. We advertised in local weekly papers. Some co-ops were amenable to us leaving our brochures. We started with a mailing base of people who had belonged to a CSA that stopped due to exhaustion on the part of the people running it..... I would also suggest places using "cheap shot" demographics. Seventh Day Adventists are vegetarian and may be interested Unitarian Universalists are often interested in social issues..... You get the picture, and yes for any of you who feel slighted or offended, I apologize. I'm offering suggestions to get you started. Our finding after doing all kinds of things to advertise is that word of mouth is best. In the newsletter advertising our two festivals ( one mid summer and one in the fall) I include a "coupon" good for a free sample share.We encourage members to bring guests and let the guests use the coupon to take home a bag of fresh veggies. We can only do that because the farmer has a 400 acre organic farm and the CSA is only 10-15% of his business. He DOES grow some stuff for us, but there's always extra. Hope that helps Sue Tannehill for Porter Farms CSA Elba, NY From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 10:56:48 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24946 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26315; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:54:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from tracker.excite.com (tracker-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.217]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26258 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:54:41 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from digger.excite.com ([199.172.152.82]) by tracker.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990326155407.TVWM18393.tracker@digger.excite.com> for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:54:07 -0800 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Dragonfly Farm Message-Id: <922463650.7051.4@excite.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:54:10 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 216.28.55.180 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1773 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 Carol, We are in our second season and have gotten the word out thru a few avenues. We have a letter that explains who, what and where we are and how much that I either send out to people (more on that) or post at the local health food stores/co-op. Actually the letter is only sent out now and a shorter flyer with rip off tabs with phone #/email on is posted at the above mentioned places. Word of mouth is good. You could try writing up a news realease and sending it out to all media. I have not doen this yet but have heard from others that it works well. Have a festival open to the public to promote your farm and the CSA (invite media to this). Develop a mailing list. At your market put out a legal pad with a header that says something about the CSA and how to get more info, folks will write down names and address all day for you. If you belong to OEFFA (I notice you too are from Ohio) get a hold of the member directory and sent a flier to everyone in your area. If you pay bills thru the mail with local companies enclose a flier with payment. Leave fiers at the bank and post office and anyplace else with a public bulletin board. find any cooking schools/classes and leave fliers with those people to pass out to students (cooks will actually know what to do with this food too!). And of course word of mouth works wonders. Hey a website doesn't hurt either (if you have the time. Yeah right.....) ; ) Our members are either word of mouth or from a Co-op we belong too so far. I have had inqueries from the web site but they were out of our range. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Mar 26 11:39:44 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06239 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:39:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29701; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:38:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29607 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:38:03 -0600 (CST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id dKVa014279 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:36:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <62889158.36fbb788@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:36:24 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Recruiting Members Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Content-Length: 1417 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 In a message dated 3/26/99 7:56:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, busson@raex.com writes: << Wondering how all of you found your original customers for your first CSA year. >> To this day, my very best recruitment methods are presentations at local churches, synagogues, and mosques. These folks know something about cooperating, working in committees, and things having a value and purpose beyond the almighty dollar. Sometimes I'm invited to speak to an adult sunday school class, sometimes I get to be the speaker at a church supper. I take lots of photos and a baby goat if I have one available, a chicken if goats are too big to fit in the portable wire cage. One local church has an annual farm appreciation day, and I do the children's moment. Nobody will ever forget the chicken who gave a huge announcement that drowned out the organ, and laid an egg while she was waiting for her moment of glory! I presented it with great ceremony to the mother of the youngest child there that day. And of course, there's that Genesis connection to the whole CSA idea -- why are any of here in the first place? "To till God's garden and keep it." No wonder so many of us feel disconnected and unfulfilled these days. CSA offers a convenient and enjoyable way to us to meet our most basic spiritual destiny! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Mar 27 07:24:08 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA25125 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:24:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA02279 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:17:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28309; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 06:16:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28248 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 06:15:11 -0600 (CST) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D6QETGQL; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:15:06 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:08:13 -0500 Subject: Ad- Goats for Sale Message-ID: <19990327.071026.-387521.1.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-6,8-13,15-16,18-26,30 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 I have several does for sale- 1) 2nd freshener Saanen- CAE Neg. 0n 9/2/98, from heavy milk lines, $150 1) 3rd freshener Saanen- CAE neg. on 9/2/98, dam of above doe, gives in the neighborhood of 16lbs. $250 1) 6th freshening Fr. Alpine, CAE neg. on 9/2/98, gives in the neighborhood of 14-16 lbs. $175 2) ObieXAlpine dry yearlings, kids of above doe, $85- very pretty 1) ObieXAlpine kid, this year's kid from above doe, $85-dramatic markings 1) 1st freshener Sannen, due in May, doe kid retained. Dam is the 3rd freshener above. $150 I will give a 10% discount if you get three or more of them together. Write for pedigrees. Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 GOaT MILK? http://www.mazdak.com/goats/goatdex.htm Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 02:16:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA07636 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 02:16:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA00046 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 02:10:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA09608; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 01:09:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (bnet1.nwnetwork.net [207.138.224.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09521 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 01:06:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from [207.138.224.143] (unverified [207.138.224.143]) by bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:57:06 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Salad greens Date: Sat, 27 Mar 99 23:06:57 -0800 x-sender: sampsons@pop.bainbridgeisland.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Devon To: "csa-l@prairienet.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 I represent the seemingly non-existent agriculturally bound youth, in tenth grade and taking a self guided Organic Farming class working towards an eventual career in CSA based agriculture and/or research in this field. I am growing produce on a very small scale ( < 5000 sq feet) near Seattle for the local farmers market. I have planted an array of salad greens and am planning to sell onions, basil, garlic, and squash so far. Are there any suggestions as to what types of lettuce or other greens (and eatable flowers, etc) to grow for this market? What other crops and varieties have been successful and high value? Thanks for the input, Devon Sampson From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 07:20:21 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA09618 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:20:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA00155 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:14:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA14237; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:12:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14191 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:12:09 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA20488; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:11:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-13.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.13) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020478; Sun Mar 28 06:10:48 1999 Message-ID: <006101be7913$bf7c81a0$0df86ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "carol busson" , "CSA list" Subject: Re: Dragonfly Farm Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:08:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 >Hi Carol, Welcome. I have to laugh we pull two lurkers out because of poor housekeeping! Ah but you should see the garden. I'll answer your question as best I can and I have one for you. We had 9 members last year. 1 was someone our business partner knows, 4 were people I know, 2 were friends of one of my people, and 2 just "drove" by: we have cattle and 3 horses (2 at the time), she noticed the horses and stopped one day to ask well she got the long explaination and the next day she and her friend each bought a membership her friend has been my best member. This year I don't know, I only have two deposit checks so far (from new people) of the above I would not be surprised if 3 dropped out due to their "difficulty" getting here to pick up bear in mind I am not out in the boonies per say not really much farther than their grocery store. I paid for one ad last year not one call. I put flyers in a friends store not one call. Direct contact is were our members came from. Our goal is 15-20 members this year finger crossed. My question for you: We think a bit of wholesale is some thing we might be interested in how did you go about finding stores. And if I may be so bold to ask what do you charge wholesale? I haven't a clue what is a fair price for wholesale organic veggies (I know some store or restaraunts won't care that they are organic). Beth >I have been lurking for a little while and wanted to introduce myself. My >name is Carol and we are certified organic for the 5th year now. This is >our first year to try a CSA. We have wholesaled most stuff to a couple of >local health food stores, and last year successfully tried a near by farmers >market. I have a lot of reservations about CSAs but hope it may work out >for us. > >I was encouraged that there was even one other person who is uncomfortable >directing folks through the chaos to the bathroom. And I was shocked to >learn that maybe we are in competition for "Mud Capital of the World", I was >certain we were the only ones! > >Wondering how all of you found your original customers for your first CSA >year. It is unlikely to be the folks in our own neighborhood as they are >mostly gardening themselves. I have a letter printed up but I am hung up on >distribution of it. Has anyone had success with small weekly newpapers? I >know it is getting late in the season. > >Glad to have connected with this group, > >Carol >Northeast Ohio > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 08:10:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09885 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:10:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA10929 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:04:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA15609; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:03:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15568 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:02:41 -0600 (CST) Received: (from goatgoddess@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D6S3W9X4; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:02:39 EST To: csa-l@prairienet.org Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:56:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Ad- Goats for Sale Message-ID: <19990328.075804.-348741.0.goatgoddess@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: B H Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 Marv H., I cannot answer your question because juno won't recognize the email address set up on your end. Transportation may be the sticking place and I can recommend breeders up where you are. Let me know....Betsy Betsy Hultin Glastonbury Farm, East Tennessee http://www.agdomain.com/sites/home.jsp?site=13724 GOaT MILK? http://www.mazdak.com/goats/goatdex.htm Goat Related Stuff,Farm Electronics,Community Sustained Agriculture(CSA) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 09:17:20 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA10415 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:17:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA25242 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:11:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16937; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:09:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from ra.raex.com (ra.raex.com [216.196.16.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16881 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:09:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from busson (akr-romp-56-57.raex.com [204.42.56.57]) by ra.raex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05166 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:10:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be7924$54a47480$39382acc@busson> From: "carol busson" To: "CSA list" Subject: Dan - - wholesaleing Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:07:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Hello; We are lucky to have a large natural foods store about 37 miles away with a good produce department and a produce manager who is committed to buying local produce. You are right that most folks in "straight" grocery stores are not even a little bit interested in organic produce. Some even believe it is dangerous, having more likelyhood of e-coli, ect. We work out a price loosely based on what the big wholesalers on the west coast are charging, or the big places in Chicago. The produce manager we work with is very generous in his pricing. We get roughly one half what the retail is on most stuff. From my experience the whole thing depends on personalities and finding folks you can have a good working relationship with. Some big chain stores don't have the luxury of buying for their own store, a head buyer at a main store does it all and then just sends them a shippment. A lot of farmers around here who have access to a fax machine fax the produce managers a list of what they will have that week on Monday morning really early. I don't know if it is just a local custom but most of the produce gets ordered Monday -Tuesday. Call up all the produce managers and introduce yourself and ask if you can stop by and meet them now while the season isn't underway quite for them, ask what they most likely want to buy local. Produce managers are really nice folks almost always. Still, the reason we want to turn to CSA is the fact that the more stuff you can retail the better off you are, produce managers have been the first to tell us they think we would be better off not selling to them but selling direct to the consumer. so we are trying to work out some mix that allows us to keep doing vegetables . From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 11:52:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11942 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26336 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:46:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22191; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:45:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22125 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:44:43 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903281644.KAA22125@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 91873707; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:44:31 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "Devon" , Subject: Re: Salad greens Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:32:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 My favorite lettuces are include the Batavian types (some catalogues call them summercrisp). Sierra Batavian is a nice, pretty (red tinge over green, thick romaine-like leaves and great flavor. Grows in the cool of spring or heat of summer. New Red Fire is a beautiful red fast growing lettuce that can also take the heat. Cracoviensis is a little known but great early lettuce with nice red/green color combos. I have seen the others in Johnny's and elsewhere, but this one only in FEDCO. Grow some "mesclun" mix for the market...we grow, among others, mizuna, tatsoi, various mustards and arugula on about a two week rotation: cut two to four times over 1 1/2 to two weeks) and dig under, start cutting the next bed. Our edible flower beds are fairly ordinary, but we like the "gem" type marigolds for nice color (though the foliage is tastier than the flower) and most herbs. Especially oregano and sage. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Devon > To: csa-l@prairienet.org > Subject: Salad greens > Date: Sunday, March 28, 1999 2:06 AM > > I represent the seemingly non-existent agriculturally bound youth, in > tenth grade and taking a self guided Organic Farming class working > towards an eventual career in CSA based agriculture and/or research in > this field. I am growing produce on a very small scale ( < 5000 sq feet) > near Seattle for the local farmers market. I have planted an array of > salad greens and am planning to sell onions, basil, garlic, and squash so > far. Are there any suggestions as to what types of lettuce or other > greens (and eatable flowers, etc) to grow for this market? What other > crops and varieties have been successful and high value? > > Thanks for the input, > > Devon Sampson > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 12:52:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12712 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:52:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09572 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:45:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA24357; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:44:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from whidbey.whidbey.com (ns.whidbey.com [204.94.52.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24310 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:44:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from [204.94.53.61] (b1-53-61.whidbey.com [204.94.53.61]) by whidbey.whidbey.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA26005; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:41:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:41:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Devon , From: Petersons Family Subject: Re: Young Farmers Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 Cool! I'd been hoping there were some other young'uns out there. I'm 16 and I'll be running most of my family's CSA this summer on Whidbey Island. Considering that the average age of a farmer in America is around 60, I often feel very isolated. The next-youngest serious organic farmer I know of on the Island is 30-something. I'm attending Western Washington University right now and student-teaching Applied Human Ecology: Sustainable Systems, a class which works in Western's organic Outback Farm. It's great to be in contact with other young people who are interested in sustainable food production; however, Western's garden is still pretty small (it's probably not even as large as your plot), underfunded, and disorganized. This spring I'm hoping to get down to Evergreen State College's organic garden as a field trip for my class and see how they're doing. When I was in tenth grade I did an independent study/vocational credit at my parent's farm on organic gardening; some time I'm hoping to get a summer internship program set up with my old high school so that other kids can have this opportunity. I'd like to stay in contact with you -- my school email address is n9842334@cc.wwu.edu I'll be there until mid-June, then I'm back on the farm on Whidbey. As far as edible flowers go, we've put borage, calendula, violas, nasturtiums, and shungiku flowers in our salad mix at some point or another, but right now our favorites are nasturtiums and violas (little violets). These both grow vigorously and self-seed. The others take more time-- borage flowers are small and their stems are fuzzy/prickly, and the centers of calendulas and shungiku flowers aren't as tasty as the petals. Radicchio was supposed to be the big fad last year, but ours wasn't widely popular at our farmer's market. We often have a lot of success with growing weird varieties of fairly traditional crops like carrots, beets and beans-- we grow golden beets, chioggia beets (these have red and white concentric rings on the inside), purple bush and yellow romano beans, and daikon radishes. Some of our favorite salad greens are Red Russian kale, tat soi, lolla rosa lettuce, and bull's blood beet greens. --Anna Petersons Molly's Island Garden >I represent the seemingly non-existent agriculturally bound youth, in >tenth grade and taking a self guided Organic Farming class working >towards an eventual career in CSA based agriculture and/or research in >this field. I am growing produce on a very small scale ( < 5000 sq feet) >near Seattle for the local farmers market. I have planted an array of >salad greens and am planning to sell onions, basil, garlic, and squash so >far. Are there any suggestions as to what types of lettuce or other >greens (and eatable flowers, etc) to grow for this market? What other >crops and varieties have been successful and high value? > >Thanks for the input, > >Devon Sampson From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 14:26:47 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA14250 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:26:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27235 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:20:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA29696; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:19:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (bnet1.nwnetwork.net [207.138.224.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29634 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:19:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from [207.138.224.105] (unverified [207.138.224.105]) by bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:09:42 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: re: salad greens Date: Sun, 28 Mar 99 11:19:35 -0800 x-sender: sampsons@pop.bainbridgeisland.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Devon To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 A lot of people replied directly to me, not on the list, so this is a digest of what I recieved: from W. Bart Hunter: >Hi Devon, > >I'm sure you will get all sorts of advice from your post. However, I feel >the most important step you can take is research in your own local market. >See what sells well in your local super market and farmers market. These >"salad greens" should be your base line of what to grow--your cash crop >which supports your operation. Once established you can try additional >different varieties to see if they sell--if they don't, you haven't lost >that much. If you can find a niche market or crop you will be way ahead of >the game. For example around here spring lamb for the Greeks at Easter was >a big market. On the other hand when I managed a vineyard for seven years we >could never find a good market for table grapes--people were to use to the >large California grapes. Perhaps if I'd continued I would have succeeded, >but it was time to leave. from Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm: >My favorite lettuces are include the Batavian types (some catalogues call >them summercrisp). Sierra Batavian is a nice, pretty (red tinge over green, >thick romaine-like leaves and great flavor. Grows in the cool of spring or >heat of summer. New Red Fire is a beautiful red fast growing lettuce that >can also take the heat. Cracoviensis is a little known but great early >lettuce with nice red/green color combos. I have seen the others in >Johnny's and elsewhere, but this one only in FEDCO. Grow some "mesclun" mix >for the market...we grow, among others, mizuna, tatsoi, various mustards >and arugula on about a two week rotation: cut two to four times over 1 1/2 >to two weeks) and dig under, start cutting the next bed. > >Our edible flower beds are fairly ordinary, but we like the "gem" type >marigolds for nice color (though the foliage is tastier than the flower) >and most herbs. Especially oregano and sage. from Anna Petersons: > As far as edible flowers go, we've put borage, calendula, violas, >nasturtiums, and shungiku flowers in our salad mix at some point or >another, but right now our favorites are nasturtiums and violas (little >violets). These both grow vigorously and self-seed. The others take more >time-- borage flowers are small and their stems are fuzzy/prickly, and the >centers of calendulas and shungiku flowers aren't as tasty as the petals. > Radicchio was supposed to be the big fad last year, but ours wasn't >widely popular at our farmer's market. We often have a lot of success with >growing weird varieties of fairly traditional crops like carrots, beets and >beans-- we grow golden beets, chioggia beets (these have red and white >concentric rings on the inside), purple bush and yellow romano beans, and >daikon radishes. Some of our favorite salad greens are Red Russian kale, >tat soi, lolla rosa lettuce, and bull's blood beet greens. > > --Anna Petersons > Molly's Island Garden thanks for the advice Devon Sampson From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Mar 28 16:13:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA15266 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:13:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA17183 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:07:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04879; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:05:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from jake.excite.com (jake-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.221]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04791 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:05:10 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from pounce.excite.com ([199.172.152.99]) by jake.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990328210436.DBPA17086.jake@pounce.excite.com> for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:04:36 -0800 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Work Days Message-Id: <922655076.24618.89@excite.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:04:36 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.197 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 We are having our first work day next Saturday. We Plan to put in a couple hundred strawberry plants and maybe potatoes (this depends on both getting to the farm before the workers do-both ordered and due the first) and some lettuce transplants. The real reason for the day is to get the folks who have promised to work out here to get familiar with the farm and begin to learn where things are. If we get some work done too that will be great. So far all the members I have asked seem really into working long hours in the fields (Wait til the reality pushes those romantic notions outta their heads). At this point we are setting our oporation up so if folks want to help we will assist them but we are schedualling nothing that is absolutely essential. At this point we are right on schedual according to the very ambitious calander I laid out in january (wow, that seems so far away now). We have the tilling begun, First peas and radish are in the ground, the first head lettuce should be transplanted tomorrow (Mon) same with the cabbages. We have laid down the first of the IRT mulch (a first for us using this stuff) and the week before all this activity took place we were busy getting compost screened and onto the beds that need it this year (and we will continue this for several more weeks) I anm excited about the coming season, I think it'll be a good one. It's the year of the Rabbit after all. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 07:25:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA27025 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:25:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA10763 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:19:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA13754; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:17:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13707 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:17:18 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA27963 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:16:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-155.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.155) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma027941; Mon Mar 29 06:16:11 1999 Message-ID: <00cd01be79dd$b0ae5160$0df86ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" Cc: "CSA list" Subject: Wholesale prices Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:14:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 Thanks people this is a good ball park. The Massachusetts Dept of Ag. has a web page, I actually rather like it. I genuinely believe this dept is serious about ag. (just get the rest of the branches of gov. to notice). Anyway they list wholesales prices by the week I guess. Does anyone understand how to read it. Its just a bunch of numbers. I assume it lists a quantity than a price. But it not the same quantity for each veg. I think it would be helpful to understand it in that this is where buyers are getting their conventional veg. Thank you list Beth -----Original Message----- From: Michelle Y. Crawford To: Dan Hook Cc: carol busson ; CSA list Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 1:23 AM Subject: Re: Dragonfly Farm > >About wholesale pricing...here in the NW on this particular island, you >get half of what the store will sell it for... > >Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, >27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 > > > > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 10:11:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29668 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA21097 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:05:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23173; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:03:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from whidbey.whidbey.com (ns.whidbey.com [204.94.52.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23032 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:02:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from [204.94.52.188] (b5-52-188.whidbey.com [204.94.52.188]) by whidbey.whidbey.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15570 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:00:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:00:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Petersons Family Subject: wholesale prices Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 On this island in the Pacific Northwest (Whidbey), I get two-thirds of the retail price for most of my produce. I have worked with the same produce manager for many years. He has been successful in expanding his organic selections, even though the store is a small grocery in a small town. This kind manager is also always willing to work with local growers, and has helped me a lot with presentation and pricing. I started with salad greens in an unmarked bag. He pointed out that my new competitor, with a label, was selling more even though the retail price was identical. I got labels. He also let slip that she had negotiated a higher wholesale price. I raised mine to match. I give him free samples to try out sometimes - like a new lettuce or bunch green. He is able to feature my produce in advertisements at least once each summer. It does help to know the produce people. In the larger stores here, I have less success in marketing anything other than high priced (wholesale at $7/#), cellophane bagged, labeled salad greens. The invasion of mass produced bagged greens has made it harder to market mine, but they are still the mainstay of my wholesaleing. I try to be prepared for the demise of this fad. Years ago, I made a good seasonal income with quality grapevine wreaths sold directly to wholesale florists who were even happy to send a truck out to pick them up. That market is gone - imports and wreaths held together with wires pushed me out. I've enjoyed the housekeeping threads. Here we keep the floor in a condition that you could eat off of (literally - there's lots of dropped chopped food down there). The last time we swept the main part of the house, John was startled by the amount of good soil collected in corners. We were tempted to throw in a handful of seeds and stand back. --Molly Petersons Molly's Island Garden From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 10:36:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00134 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27610 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:29:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA25488; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:28:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25433 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:28:21 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA19190; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:27:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-155.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.155) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019070; Mon Mar 29 09:26:56 1999 Message-ID: <014b01be79f8$579b5300$0df86ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Petersons Family" Subject: Re: wholesale prices Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:25:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 Dear Molly, Thank-you for the advice. LOL just let so much dirt (I am on my way) accumulate on the kitchen floor and plant seeds! I'll just install florencent lights I've already got water...........I'll get tour groups this could be good! Beth >advertisements at least once each summer. It does help to know the produce >people. In the larger stores here, I have less success in marketing >anything other than high priced (wholesale at $7/#), cellophane bagged, >labeled salad greens. The invasion of mass produced bagged greens has made >it harder to market mine, but they are still the mainstay of my >wholesaleing. I try to be prepared for the demise of this fad. Years ago, >I made a good seasonal income with quality grapevine wreaths sold directly >to wholesale florists who were even happy to send a truck out to pick them >up. That market is gone - imports and wreaths held together with wires >pushed me out. >I've enjoyed the housekeeping threads. Here we keep the floor in a >condition that you could eat off of (literally - there's lots of dropped >chopped food down there). The last time we swept the main part of the >house, John was startled by the amount of good soil collected in corners. >We were tempted to throw in a handful of seeds and stand back. > --Molly Petersons > Molly's Island Garden > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 15:00:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08073 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02506 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA20549; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:51:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (bnet1.nwnetwork.net [207.138.224.11]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20433 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:50:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from [207.138.224.135] (unverified [207.138.224.135]) by bnet1.bainbridgenet.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.6) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:41:14 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Fwd: Re: Salad greens Date: Mon, 29 Mar 99 11:51:12 -0800 x-sender: sampsons@pop.bainbridgeisland.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Devon To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 03/29 5:21 AM Received: 03/29 7:07 AM From: Pat Elazar, Pat_Elazar@cwb.ca To: Devon, dsampson@bigfoot.com Hi Devon. I like your enterprise & spirit & want to offer my moral support. I can't add alot to what Bart, Jim/Jo, Ann have said other than to maybe tweak your product line a bit: I like your commitment to leafy greens- those are generally acceptable, not 'weird' & keep their value even in harvest glut times. Any herbs or flowers (edible or other) are great. The onions are lo-profit items you might limit or try to incorporate as part of salad mixes? You mentioned squashes but not what kind. Those usually take up enormous amounts of room & are generally lo-profit items. Otoh, if you have the space, specialty squashes or pumpkins could be part of your marketing plan. Squash flowers are edible btw and look spectacular in a mesclun mix (special father's day mix, 4th of July mix etc...) You didn't mention beans? They are also widely acceptable, perform well during the hotter months & keep their value during harvest glut. While I'm ranting: People like convenience so package basil, flat-leaf-parsley & garlic together with a recipe for pesto (just add olive oil, pine-nuts, salt & parmesan to taste). That way you are selling knowledge as well as food. Good luck, Pat Devon on 03/28/99 01:06:57 AM To: "csa-l@prairienet.org" cc: Subject: Salad greens I represent the seemingly non-existent agriculturally bound youth, in tenth grade and taking a self guided Organic Farming class working towards an eventual career in CSA based agriculture and/or research in this field. I am growing produce on a very small scale ( < 5000 sq feet) near Seattle for the local farmers market. I have planted an array of salad greens and am planning to sell onions, basil, garlic, and squash so far. Are there any suggestions as to what types of lettuce or other greens (and eatable flowers, etc) to grow for this market? What other crops and varieties have been successful and high value? Thanks for the input, Devon Sampson ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Mar 29 17:11:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA11584 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01519 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:04:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA01770; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:02:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com (smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01477 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:00:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from Sympatico.sympatico.ca (ppp13925.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.163.164]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA28691 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:03:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990329171048.0072d430@pop1.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1qbem96@pop1.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:10:48 -0800 To: csa-l@prairienet.org From: Hilary Chop Subject: Companion Planting Guide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 Barbara Scott - Are you out there? Barbara had given me a copy of "The Companion Planting Guide for Vegetable Gardens" chart by Gregory H. Willis. I am looking for where I might be able to find more copies. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Hilary From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 01:49:40 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA18334 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:49:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA08031 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:43:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA26086; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:37:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25979 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:36:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA10932; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:36:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:36:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Petersons Family cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: wholesale prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 I too am enjoying the housekeeping thread. There is a lot of soil wasted on the kitchen floor. I have also just had a time trying to share farm interns with another farm close by...they would provide the housing in the form of a 2 bedroom trailer, and I would find the interns and do the other farms starts, starting everything down to beets. I have had to terminate that share because the interns have been living with me and my children in our tiny house for a month, and the trailer is still not ready (though it has been on the property since last summer), no water, no toilet (even a composting one outdoors). It has been a real learning curve for me (again) to try and work things out like this. It is not only very messy here but we are not getting a lot of work done (except on the trailer), and on and on. Now the interns are NOT going to live in the trailer, and finally realizing that you can back out of a difficult situation, we worked here today. I think I have found another farm to share them with that has housing available and ready, they may be out of here in 3 days. As if there is not enough to do! I may never have interns again. Hoping some of you have made less mistakes (or different ones to pass on), Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 02:19:25 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA18564 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 02:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA13388 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 02:13:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA27390; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:12:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27332 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:11:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA14091; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:11:37 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:11:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Devon cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Salad greens and Devon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 How does one package basil so that it does not rot or bruise and then rot? I would add to the generous advice given to you Devon, that stir fry mixes, with lots of bolting florets of Asian greens are very successful for me, and I add gai lohn brocolli, broc. raab, and scallions to it also. I am on Vashon Island in the PNW, and our growers assoc. is working with all the branches of the local schools, homeschoolers, and with the district (trying to get the horticulture program up and running after a 5 year absence, but as an organic farming program)... I would be interested in knowing what has been helpful to you in terms of education. I personally think internships are the way to learn though I wrote last expressing great frustration with that situation at this time for me and so far this year. I'd be interested in what has worked for you. Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 06:30:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA20409 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:30:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA06000 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA02959; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 05:17:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from hissy.excite.com (hissy-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.229]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02904 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 05:16:40 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from flash.excite.com ([199.172.152.79]) by hissy.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990331111605.DQGB19621.hissy@flash.excite.com> for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 03:16:05 -0800 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Interns (was wholesale prices) Message-Id: <922878965.22613.102@excite.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 03:16:05 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.208 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 Michelle, Wow, what a time of year to be having this kind of problem. I'm glad the proiblem seems to be working itself out for you. Our farm does not do interns (yet) but I have some ideas about your situation. Number one, unless you live in the middle of no where and it would be very difficult to get to your farm, the intern does not have to live on the farm. Number two, You do not have to supply housing for these folks. From what I have been reading on the net-intern want ads-many of the potential interns do not expect housing, they also don't want to work more than 30 hours either (and they want a real farm exp too...). From a workshop I went to They said it is really up to the grower and intern to come up with a plan and each is different, much like the CSA's themselves. In other words don't give up on the intern idea-hey they will be a big help when you get all this BS cleared up and can concentrate on growing and you are doing an invaluable service in taking the time to teach these people to farm in a sustainable way so that they can carry on the skills and teach others. You just need to do more thinking on what you can provide the interns etc.. off season. I guess I'd also say do this on your own next time and not with another farm. Speaking of workers, we had a friend, who is now a new CSA member, show up at the farm asking to work in the fields with us, we said "sure" and he worked as hard as us for 4 hours straight (okay one 20 min break) and wants to come back. He did an excellent job too-followed our instructions to the letter. Maybe I'll find, for this year at least, members can be good workers (we lucked into a lot of exp folks). This is a huge change from last year - It was like pulling teeth to get a member out for any reason much less work, and the few that did work did a poor job and needed far too much supervision (we had one member who need constant supervision no matter how simple the job-he couldn't even pick up rocks out the field with out lots of instruction). This year all members want to work. I think I was correct in getting rid of almost the entire membership last year. I'm very excited about this season. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 12:50:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27511 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:50:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14287 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA25753; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:42:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from cubbie.excite.com (cubbie-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.216]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25653 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:41:52 -0600 (CST) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from doby.excite.com ([199.172.152.182]) by cubbie.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990331174117.LMGW19608.cubbie@doby.excite.com> for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:41:17 -0800 To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Interns Message-Id: <922902076.1589.302@excite.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:41:16 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.140 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 Okay, Here is a short list of URL's that often post intern ads OFMA http://web.iquest.net/ofma/ Organic trade Org. http://www.organicfood.com They have a good message board that has intern ads occasionally http://www.agrisurf.com is an excellent agricultural search engine. They have scads of organic links I hope this helps some. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris Ohio http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 21:25:49 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08344 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:25:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21347 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA05335; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:17:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp1.jps.net (smtp1.jps.net [209.63.224.236]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05246 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:16:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from jps.net (209-142-58-125.stk.jps.net [209.142.58.125]) by smtp1.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12988 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:16:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <37026B10.421D2EC8@jps.net> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:36:05 +0000 From: Richard Roth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: How does one package basil References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 My experience says you can successfully handle basil four ways * dry it and package it (longterm) * cut it and let it wilt in the fridge without plastic bag (a week or two tops) * freeze it (long term) * cut it and treat it like fresh flowers in a vase - in or out of the fridge (a week or three tops) The fact that it is wilted doesn't affect the flavor when added to pesto or salads and is the easiest of the three ways, so this is what I do - but I have customers who are not as lazy as me and chose one of the other methods. -- Richard Roth rfarm 1318 Bruce Street Chico, CA 95928 Ph:(530) 895-1672 . From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Mar 31 23:44:24 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA10880 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23560 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:37:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA12967; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:36:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12870 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:35:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from junkpile - 208.253.68.174 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:34:17 -0800 From: "Mary Manson" To: "Michelle Y. Crawford" , "Petersons Family" Cc: Subject: Re: wholesale prices Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:46:07 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <040011734040149CPIMSSMTPU01@email.msn.com> Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 >there is not enough to do! I may never have interns again. Hoping some of >you have made less mistakes (or different ones to pass on), >Michelle Crawford That's a typical learning curve - they throw you a curve, and you learn. Now you're smarter than they are, because hopefully you won't get caught this way again .... but they will continue shirking until they run out of people, meanwhile building one hell of a reputation. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 3 10:09:01 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28672 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:09:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15115 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:02:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA13045; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:01:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12995 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:00:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool038-max13.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.4.38]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA13979 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:00:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990403070043.0082c850@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 07:00:43 -0800 To: CSA-L From: Fred Chambers Subject: OFF: Wheat... Hemp Re-birth In-Reply-To: <37050279.43BDFA5@digisys.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 Here's more on the options for wheat farmers facing low prices. Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:50:58 -0800 Subject: Some farmers lobby for legal hemp Published Friday, April 2, 1999, in the Charlotte Observer ------------------------------------------------------------ Some farmers lobby for legal hemp Falling prices make option more attractive By CHRISTOPHER S. WREN New York Times BISMARCK, N.D. -- Dennis Carlson sold his first wheat, grown on a field borrowed from his parents, in 1975, when he was 14. He earned $4.51 a bushel and resolved to follow his father, grandfather and great-grandfather into farming. Nearly 24 years later, spring wheat is selling for $2.91 a bushel, and Carlson worries whether he can afford to plant next month. "We're going to get a low price," he said. "And if we get a bumper crop, it's going to get lower." Battered by sinking commodity prices and rising costs, Carlson and other wheat farmers are looking across the Canadian border at a crop they say could help save them -- if only it were legal. That crop is hemp, a non-intoxicating look-alike cousin of marijuana grown around the world for its fiber, seed and oil. But long identified with marijuana both by law enforcement and the counterculture, it is banned in the United States as part of the war on drugs. As farmers from Hawaii to North Dakota to Vermont lobby state legislatures to study hemp's potential and make it legal, they are opposed by federal officials unwilling to relax drug laws even symbolically, whether by endorsing marijuana's medical use, or approving a once-common crop, hemp. Until recently, the White House's Office of National Drug Control Policy asserted that making hemp legal would send the wrong message, "especially to our youth at a time when adolescent drug use is rising." But in March its director, McCaffrey, indicated in an interview that his opposition was softening. "If people believe that hemp fiber can be sold in the marketplace for a profit, and aren't actually trying to normalize the growing of marijuana around America, to the extent you want to grow hemp fiber, we'd be glad to work with you," McCaffrey said. But as a profitable crop, he said, "I think it's going nowhere." But in North Dakota, where the Republican-controlled Legislature appears likely to enact laws promoting hemp, Carlson said: "We're all desperate. We're trying to find something that will change our outlook, and hemp is one of many crops." It does not help that hemp remains identified with the counterculture, its products -- from oils to clothing -- often sold in shops that sell rolling papers, pipes and other drug paraphernalia, its cause cheered on by marijuana advocates. "They are our worst enemies," said Gale Glenn, a tobacco grower in Winchester, Ky. "If marijuana didn't exist, hemp would be growing here on hundreds of thousands of acres." Legislation to revive hemp passed in Hawaii this month and has been introduced in legislatures in North Dakota, Montana, Minnesota, Virginia, Vermont and Hawaii. The federal Controlled Substances Act says the government does not intend to prevent states from legislating in this area. But even with state approval, hemp growers would need permits from the Drug Enforcement Administration, which so far has resisted. "There's widespread bipartisan support for this becoming a crop in North Dakota," state Sen. Joel Heitkamp said. "The problem is at the federal level." State Rep. David Monson, a farmer, school superintendent and sponsor of the North Dakota legislation, said, "I think 99 percent of the people in my district, when you show them the bottom line, they're ready to go." After Canada made hemp legal a year ago, about 5,000 acres were planted with hemp, said Geof Kime, president of Hempline, a hemp growing and processing company in Delaware, Ontario. Monson recalled watching his neighbor across the border in Manitoba grow 23 acres of hemp that netted about $250 an acre. "When he came out with all those profits, we were really upset," Monson said. ----------------------------------------------------end FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Walnut Alliance is one of many campus and local groups encouraging Cal Poly to explore environmentally responsible uses of campus green spaces. Visit and post at: http://www.csupomona.edu/~jmikeda/la401/cap/ (Clean Air Park Proposal) http://www.regen.org/bwecc.html (BWA's Energy Center Proposal) http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~muse/ (Multi-Use Development Strategy) http://www.rokcircle.com/bbs/ (The Wilderness Forum) http://www.thelyp.com/ewala (The Earth Water Air for Los Angeles site) http://www.ballona.org (Ballona Preservation Land Trust) From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 5 13:41:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07110 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA00095 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06789; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:32:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06596 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:30:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA06891 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:30:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2-45.ix.netcom.com(209.110.254.45) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006615; Mon Apr 5 12:28:48 1999 Message-ID: <005301be7f89$8c384e60$2dfe6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Ma. dept of food and ag URL Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:27:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 People have requested this address love to here what you think. http://www.massgrown.org/Default.htm From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 6 18:18:56 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14727 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA08276 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA23990; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:10:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23869 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:08:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA22041; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:05:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-80.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.80) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022016; Tue Apr 6 17:05:19 1999 Message-ID: <009e01be8079$5ea01460$50fa6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Dan Hook" , Subject: Alec Baldwin Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:03:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 That was a very interesting post. Did Oprah win? I always wondered how she even got into trouble in that "mad cow" and e-coli was talked about on every show. That sort of power in the food industry doesn't seem "healthy". Beth From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 7 06:06:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA23242 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA12617 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA00736; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:58:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from www.mebbs.com (www.mebbs.com [207.177.12.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00693 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:57:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: by www.mebbs.com from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 07 Apr 1999 05:09:15 -0500 Received: from boblkbns.netins.net [207.177.12.34] by www.mebbs.com [207.177.12.3] (SLmail 3.2.3108) with SMTP id 70DC476CEC9711D28AC90020182AA861 for plus 1 more; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 05:08:41 -0500 Message-ID: <001401be80dc$89b8c260$220cb1cf@boblkbns.netins.net> From: "Ron Boyer" To: Cc: "Ron Boyer" Subject: media Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:48:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-SLUIDL: 61667C97-EC7F11D2-8AC90020-182AA861 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 This may not fit in with the thought process of this page but I think that the power of the media isn't healthy.I don't know exactly what Mr. Baldwin has said but I can guess and I would like to know if he is educated enough in what ever he is complaining about to know for a fact that it is true or is he just listening to certain peoples opinion for his information. Oprah did not loose in her lawsuit because it could not be proven that she destroyed the market of cattle that were in no way sick from what she was discussing (mad Cow). However she did not know what she was talking about and her guest had a quest to destroy the cattle industry even though he used faulty facts and logic. When media people us their name recognition to promote a cause that they really know nothing about I think it is more detrimental then any one (food industry if you will ) standing up to protect their product Ron Boyer www.blackbeans.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 7 07:47:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA24066 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA28938 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA04057; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:39:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.thestreet.com ([208.241.190.4]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03992 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:38:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jherr ([207.38.252.24]) by smtp.thestreet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58593U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id com; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:27:10 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990407043207.00a7d314@mail.thestreet.com> X-Sender: Jherr@mail.thestreet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000 To: "Ron Boyer" , From: Jeff Herr Subject: Re: media Cc: "Ron Boyer" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 Sorry about being off topic, but I couldn't help myself. Ron's comments about the media drew me from my cave. Alec Baldwin and Oprah are not members of the media. They are celebrities promoting their favorite causes. But the lines have been blurred and, sadly, people assume these celebrities are crusading like journalists in search of a fair and broad understanding of an issue. They have lost their bearings and are a million miles away from the standards of accuracy and fairness that define true journalism. Again, I'm sorry about being off topic. Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with plastic mulch? -- Jeff The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA At 04:48 AM 4/7/99 -0500, Ron Boyer wrote: >This may not fit in with the thought process of this page but I think that >the power of the media isn't healthy.I don't know exactly what Mr. Baldwin >has said but I can guess and I would like to know if he is educated enough >in what ever he is complaining about to know for a fact that it is true or >is he just listening to certain peoples opinion for his information. >Oprah did not loose in her lawsuit because it could not be proven that she >destroyed the market of cattle that were in no way sick from what she was >discussing (mad Cow). However she did not know what she was talking about >and her guest had a quest to destroy the cattle industry even though he used >faulty facts and logic. >When media people us their name recognition to promote a cause that they >really know nothing about I think it is more detrimental then any one (food >industry if you will ) standing up to protect their product >Ron Boyer >www.blackbeans.com > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 7 09:31:56 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA25820 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA18361 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09197; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:22:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09135 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:22:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.8.149.46] [209.8.149.45] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id ACE41CD03DC; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:25:56 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:22:03 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: nation article Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 I think people should read the nation issue before commenting. It was an interesting issue. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 7 10:06:55 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26395 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26632 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12189; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:58:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12116 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:57:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19990407135807.3157.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.211.18.129] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:58:07 PDT Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:58:07 -0700 (PDT) From: jared volpe Subject: Fwd: Re: nation article To: CSA list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 Oops, sorry Leigh. I am on a few newsgroups and on the others I can hit the reply button and my mail will go to the group, but for some reason with this one it goes to the sender. Anyway... --- jared volpe wrote: > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:58:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: jared volpe > Subject: Re: nation article > To: Leigh Hauter > > > What Nation issue? Did anyone read the article > entitled, "The Green Machine", in April's Harper's? > Is Monsanto sowing the seeds of change, or > destruction? > > --- Leigh Hauter wrote: > > I think people should read the nation issue before > > commenting. It was an > > interesting issue. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 8 02:09:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA18325 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA21290 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA26097; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:01:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25740 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:00:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA08293; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:59:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:59:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: Jeff Herr cc: Ron Boyer , CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: media In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990407043207.00a7d314@mail.thestreet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 On the quack grass topic...hot compost or hot manure with black plastic over it works well against quack grass on Vashon Island, WA...it takes 2 months in warm weather, and around 4 in cool... I would like to say that we in Western WA are having the coldest wettest spring in 40 years (give or take) and we may all move south soon. Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Jeff Herr wrote: > Sorry about being off topic, but I couldn't help myself. Ron's comments about the media drew me from my cave. > > Alec Baldwin and Oprah are not members of the media. They are celebrities promoting their favorite causes. But the lines have been blurred and, sadly, people assume these celebrities are crusading like journalists in search of a fair and broad understanding of an issue. They have lost their bearings and are a million miles away from the standards of accuracy and fairness that define true journalism. > > Again, I'm sorry about being off topic. > > Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with plastic mulch? > > -- Jeff > > The Cabbage Ranch > Carnation, WA > > > > > At 04:48 AM 4/7/99 -0500, Ron Boyer wrote: > >This may not fit in with the thought process of this page but I think that > >the power of the media isn't healthy.I don't know exactly what Mr. Baldwin > >has said but I can guess and I would like to know if he is educated enough > >in what ever he is complaining about to know for a fact that it is true or > >is he just listening to certain peoples opinion for his information. > >Oprah did not loose in her lawsuit because it could not be proven that she > >destroyed the market of cattle that were in no way sick from what she was > >discussing (mad Cow). However she did not know what she was talking about > >and her guest had a quest to destroy the cattle industry even though he used > >faulty facts and logic. > >When media people us their name recognition to promote a cause that they > >really know nothing about I think it is more detrimental then any one (food > >industry if you will ) standing up to protect their product > >Ron Boyer > >www.blackbeans.com > > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 8 07:18:03 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA21491 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA18912 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA03597; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:10:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03500 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:09:31 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.7) id dPEUa26562 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e47aefe.243de82a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:08:26 EDT Subject: Re: media To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 138 In a message dated 4/8/99 2:01:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, michelle@animal.blarg.net writes: << I would like to say that we in Western WA are having the coldest wettest spring in 40 years (give or take) and we may all move south soon. Michelle >> Hey, eh! (recently back home to spittin' distance of the Canadian border from a visit to South Carolina) -- Michelle, does that mean that San Juan Island property prices will be dropping so the hordes from the East who are starved for more progressive thinking can descend upon you guys? Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 9 02:12:19 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA15647 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA14054 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA01323; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:03:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01091 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:56:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA30793; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:56:10 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:56:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: DGreen47@aol.com cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: media In-Reply-To: <3e47aefe.243de82a@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 139 Dori, No the prices are not going down...but a lot of people are getting light boxes! Sunshine in a box, what an idea... We do value the generous thinking though. I have a farming friend, single, very amazing woman who just moved back to Wisconsin. She is happy to be home, but in shock after being in the NW where singleness is a non issue. She feels like a fish out of water, and misses the forward thinking as well. That progressive thinking can get kind of goofy of course:) Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 DGreen47@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/8/99 2:01:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > michelle@animal.blarg.net writes: > > << I would like to say that we in Western WA are having the coldest wettest > spring in 40 years (give or take) and we may all move south soon. > > Michelle >> > > Hey, eh! (recently back home to spittin' distance of the Canadian border > from a visit to South Carolina) -- Michelle, does that mean that San Juan > Island property prices will be dropping so the hordes from the East who are > starved for more progressive thinking can descend upon you guys? > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 9 11:20:46 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22350 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12014 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22184; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:12:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22080 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:11:29 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dADKa21908 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:08:20 EDT Subject: Re: Adjusting to Locations (was media) To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 140 I used to suffer terribly from Seasonal Affective Disorder ("SAD") which culminated every March with depression so severe that I could barely function. The cheap light boxes are worthless, but the good ones are worth their weight in gold. I convinced our local county mental health clinic to invest in one (it was more than $700) and install it at the public library. That's where I catch up on my reading once or twice a week during the bleary days. To give a hint of the "thinking" disorder in my neck of the woods -- the Corning public library is on the verge of closing due to lack of local financial support. This library serves an area of about 20,000 people. "Nobody reads any more" is the excuse voiced most often, then "But the Elmira library is only 20 miles away". I grew up three blocks from the University of Rochester. Believe me, there were some adjustments to go through when I relocated to this area in 1985! My mother's next-door neighbor in Rochester was murdered by a 19-year-old intruder out on parole. Suicide is the most common form of violent death out here in the country -- if we don't get run off the road by one of those crazy gotta-make-the-quote Schwann Frozen Food truck drivers. This adjustment was easier to make. I'm surprised that more people out here aren't making use of the new solar barn technologies, and I'm looking at having a demo barn put up here and becoming a dealer for them. Got an idea for a livestock/greenhouse/crop rotation a' la' Chicken Tractors. Incidentally, my little 20 acres of heaven here in lower Upstate New York actually gets fewer days of sunlight per year than does Seattle. I don't mind rain but unrelenting wind can drive me totally crazy. I have a pretty unrelenting wind here on my hilltop farm even though there's one more hill between me and the flatlands leading to Lake Erie more than 100 miles away. The wind gets a pretty good "oomph" going by the time it gets here. So I use a LOT of windbreaks, screens, and cold frames constructed out of recycled materials. And recognize that CCE might say I'm Zone 5 but reality is more like 3/4. Things also grow well here, and it's a place sorely in need of some new ideas about the definitions of Community so I stick around. At least for now. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com Sponsor: Summer Solstice CSA & Homesteading Workshop Weekend June 18-20 From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 9 13:01:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24058 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09582 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28807; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:50:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gwgate.lib.iastate.edu (gwgate.lib.iastate.edu [129.186.11.21]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28719 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:49:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Parks_Library-Message_Server by gwgate.lib.iastate.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 11:49:43 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 11:49:39 -0500 From: "Jeff Hall" To: HPANDERS@aol.com, robertftf@isunet.net, smithfam@netins.net, csa-l@prairienet.org, pernell_74@yahoo.com Subject: Iowa State Daily, 4/9/99 (including name corrections) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id LAA28722 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 141 Student farm, CSA provide Ames with organic goods by Olivia Ogren Daily Staff Writer "By the people, for the people" is the philosophy of the Magic Beanstalk's Community Supported Agriculture program. In its fifth year in Ames, the Magic Beanstalk CSA project is a partnership between local organic growers and community members who want fresh, chemical-free produce. The program took off in 1995 with a grant from the Kellogg Foundation. What started as one producer supplying organic produce to a few participants has grown to five weekly suppliers filling 125 shares of food this year. One share is able feed two or three people. Marilyn Andersen, co-founder of the program, said one reason sustainable agriculture has gained popularity is because "people are becoming aware of the dangers of pesticides." She said Magic Beanstalk CSA gives people a better understanding and appreciation of the work that goes into producing their food. "People learn their food comes from the ground, not the grocery store," Andersen said. One of the participating farms is Heenah Mayah [Mahyah], an organic farm run by ISU students. Last season, the farm supplied peas, pumpkins and carrots to the program. The farm raises produce to supply shares to the Magic Beanstalk CSA for the farmer's market and donates the leftovers to the Bethesda Lutheran Church's food pantry. Ricardo Salvador, associate professor of agronomy, instructs student volunteers who work at the farm. Salvador said the farm provides students with more information than could possibly fit into one of his classes. "What they learn in a season is more than I can teach them in one semester," Salvador said. Contrary to popular belief, Salvador said organic farming isn't "a step back in time," though it is more labor intensive than common farming methods, and there's generally more planning involved. Pernell Plast [Plath], ISU alumna, volunteered on ISU's farm as an undergraduate and continues to do so, splitting her time between Heenah Mayah and Magic Beanstalk CSA. "One of the biggest things I learned is there is more than one way to do everything," Plast said. "There are a lot of time-saving things you can do." Plast also works for the Field to Family Project, a project linked to Magic Beanstalk CSA helping low-income families purchase produce shares from the CSA. Robert Carp [Karp], co-director of Field to Family, said the organization provides many services designed to help strengthen the local community and support local agriculture. "Magic Beanstalk demonstrated a new approach to food and agriculture," Carp said. "[This] shows we can support local agriculture." Members of the two groups help distribute the food among various food pantries including Bethesda Lutheran Church, 1517 Northwestern Ave., Assault Care Center Extending Shelter and Support and a local homeless shelter, Carp said. Carp said Magic Beanstalk CSA helps meet the demand for chemical-free produce. "People want their money to go to environmentally safe food and agriculture," Carp said. "It shows there's a real longing and demand for a farm connection and fresh produce," Carp said. Bruce Smith, owner of the Iowa Fresh Produce farm in Jewell, has been producing for the Magic Beanstalk CSA for the last three seasons. "It's not a business but a way of life," Smith said. Prev | Home | Next This article was published on Friday, April 9, 1999. Copyright 1999 by the Iowa State Daily Publications Board. All rights reserved. No redistribution without the express written consent of the Iowa State Daily Editor in Chief. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 10 00:29:14 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04452 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11898 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA12238; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:14:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12176 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:13:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA04610; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:13:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:13:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: DGreen47@aol.com cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Adjusting to Locations (was media) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 142 I CAN NOT imagine living with such a library. New farmers should look into such things...I do love the idea of having a good light box at the library. I'm going to bring it up to ours here and will let you know when it gets installed. Living on an island we don't have a lot of community centers and our library is a very busy place. I hope to meet you some day, rain or shine, Michelle Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 DGreen47@aol.com wrote: > I used to suffer terribly from Seasonal Affective Disorder ("SAD") which > culminated every March with depression so severe that I could barely > function. The cheap light boxes are worthless, but the good ones are worth > their weight in gold. I convinced our local county mental health clinic to > invest in one (it was more than $700) and install it at the public library. > That's where I catch up on my reading once or twice a week during the bleary > days. > > To give a hint of the "thinking" disorder in my neck of the woods -- the > Corning public library is on the verge of closing due to lack of local > financial support. This library serves an area of about 20,000 people. > > "Nobody reads any more" is the excuse voiced most often, then "But the Elmira > library is only 20 miles away". > > I grew up three blocks from the University of Rochester. Believe me, there > were some adjustments to go through when I relocated to this area in 1985! > > My mother's next-door neighbor in Rochester was murdered by a 19-year-old > intruder out on parole. Suicide is the most common form of violent death out > here in the country -- if we don't get run off the road by one of those crazy > gotta-make-the-quote Schwann Frozen Food truck drivers. This adjustment was > easier to make. > > I'm surprised that more people out here aren't making use of the new solar > barn technologies, and I'm looking at having a demo barn put up here and > becoming a dealer for them. Got an idea for a livestock/greenhouse/crop > rotation a' la' Chicken Tractors. > > Incidentally, my little 20 acres of heaven here in lower Upstate New York > actually gets fewer days of sunlight per year than does Seattle. I don't > mind rain but unrelenting wind can drive me totally crazy. I have a pretty > unrelenting wind here on my hilltop farm even though there's one more hill > between me and the flatlands leading to Lake Erie more than 100 miles away. > The wind gets a pretty good "oomph" going by the time it gets here. > > So I use a LOT of windbreaks, screens, and cold frames constructed out of > recycled materials. And recognize that CCE might say I'm Zone 5 but reality > is more like 3/4. Things also grow well here, and it's a place sorely in > need of some new ideas about the definitions of Community so I stick around. > > At least for now. > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com > > Sponsor: Summer Solstice CSA & Homesteading Workshop Weekend June 18-20 > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 10 04:55:52 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA06436 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA00982 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA21444; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:46:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from styx.host4u.net (styx.host4u.net [209.150.128.165]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21398 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:46:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from tonasketuser027.televar.com (tonasketuser027.televar.com [208.8.144.36]) by styx.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA12560 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:46:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199904100846.DAA12560@styx.host4u.net> From: "Terry King" To: "CSA-L@prairienet.org" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 09:20:16 -0600 Reply-To: "Terry King" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 143 On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000, Jeff Herr wrote: >Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with plastic mulch? > >-- Jeff > >The Cabbage Ranch >Carnation, WA Hello All, I just joined this list as I research how to start a CSA type project servicing my church community. I'm in the usually sunny Okanogan of E. WA. where we have 2 inches of new snow this morning! As for using plastic mulch to suppress quackgrass I've had mixed results. It seems to work best if the area can be tilled and many of the stolons removed first then use a thick mil plastic, at *least* 4 mil, that thin 1 or 1.5 mil will not work. The quackgrass here will put roots down and grow up through thin plastics and cheaper weed block fabric even when mulched with several inches. I've also had it grow up through 2' of aging manure. I'm currently battling quackgrass myself in the area I want to put my tomato house. I will probably use a heavy commercial weed block fabric on top of the soil after I till enough to dry out and/or remove enough stolons from the soil. I'm interested to know if there are any CSA's in E. WA? All the listings I've found in WA are on the westside. Terry in the Okanogan of E. WA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 10 17:38:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15513 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14278 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA17021; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:29:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16936 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:29:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904102129.QAA16936@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 27671379; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:28:41 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "Terry King" , Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:17:35 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 144 we. too have had mixed results with plastic (but tending to be effective). Another option we have had some success with is a smother crop of buckwheat. By planting as soon as weather permits (it is tender) then tilling it in just before it goes to seed, immediately planting another crop of buckwheat, tilling in as before...as many times as your climate permits (3 crops in northern MI). Good dirt and few weeds are the result. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Terry King > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:20 AM > > On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000, Jeff Herr wrote: > > >Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with plastic > mulch? > > > >-- Jeff > > > >The Cabbage Ranch > >Carnation, WA > > Hello All, > > I just joined this list as I research how to start a CSA type project servicing my > church community. I'm in the usually sunny Okanogan of E. WA. where we have 2 > inches of new snow this morning! > > As for using plastic mulch to suppress quackgrass I've had mixed results. It seems > to work best if the area can be tilled and many of the stolons removed first then use > a thick mil plastic, at *least* 4 mil, that thin 1 or 1.5 mil will not work. The quackgrass > here will put roots down and grow up through thin plastics and cheaper weed block > fabric even when mulched with several inches. I've also had it grow up through 2' of > aging manure. > > I'm currently battling quackgrass myself in the area I want to put my tomato house. I > will probably use a heavy commercial weed block fabric on top of the soil after I till > enough to dry out and/or remove enough stolons from the soil. > > I'm interested to know if there are any CSA's in E. WA? All the listings I've found in > WA are on the westside. > > Terry > in the Okanogan of E. WA > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sat Apr 10 19:03:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16244 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA08456 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA20056; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:55:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sparky.hampshire.ma.us ([198.3.35.25]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19983 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:54:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.usa.com (farmer [192.168.0.3]) by sparky.hampshire.ma.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23808 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:20:06 -0400 Message-ID: <370FD73E.EC80BA2F@mail.usa.com> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:57:02 -0400 From: Scott Reed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch References: <199904102129.QAA16936@firefly.prairienet.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 145 I've often wondered why we don't let the buckwheat reseed itself instead of tilling it in before it goes to seed. Why not let it go to seed and then lightly disc it? - scott Riverland Farm, Sunderland, MA Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > we. too have had mixed results with plastic (but tending to be effective). > Another option we have had some success with is a smother crop of > buckwheat. By planting as soon as weather permits (it is tender) then > tilling it in just before it goes to seed, immediately planting another > crop of buckwheat, tilling in as before...as many times as your climate > permits (3 crops in northern MI). Good dirt and few weeds are the result. > Jo and Jim > "The Community Farm" newsletter > A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture > http://www.gks.com/TCF/ > > ---------- > > From: Terry King > > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > > Subject: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > > Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:20 AM > > > > On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000, Jeff Herr wrote: > > > > >Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with > plastic > > mulch? > > > > > >-- Jeff > > > > > >The Cabbage Ranch > > >Carnation, WA > > > > Hello All, > > > > I just joined this list as I research how to start a CSA type project > servicing my > > church community. I'm in the usually sunny Okanogan of E. WA. where we > have 2 > > inches of new snow this morning! > > > > As for using plastic mulch to suppress quackgrass I've had mixed results. > It seems > > to work best if the area can be tilled and many of the stolons removed > first then use > > a thick mil plastic, at *least* 4 mil, that thin 1 or 1.5 mil will not > work. The quackgrass > > here will put roots down and grow up through thin plastics and cheaper > weed block > > fabric even when mulched with several inches. I've also had it grow up > through 2' of > > aging manure. > > > > I'm currently battling quackgrass myself in the area I want to put my > tomato house. I > > will probably use a heavy commercial weed block fabric on top of the soil > after I till > > enough to dry out and/or remove enough stolons from the soil. > > > > I'm interested to know if there are any CSA's in E. WA? All the listings > I've found in > > WA are on the westside. > > > > Terry > > in the Okanogan of E. WA > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 11 04:57:22 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA04227 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA06490 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA09879; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:49:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09821 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:47:04 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dLIPa07515 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <849d0ddc.2441bb49@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:46:01 EDT Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 146 Another hearty vote for buckwheat here, where my problem was Terminal Knotgrass. Millet is also terrific for weed suppression. I put it in for that purpose, and again to grow a crop for my chickens. Of course it was just a cover crop and in one of my earlier years so I didn't record the exact variety etc. -- but I just sold the last wrist-thick bunched ornamental spray of the stuff for $4.50 -- it was a GREAT crop and a ready market. I'd love to plant the same thing again. As an organic farmer I resist the use of nonrenewable resources, especially ones that pose a disposal problem. I worked for several years for Mobil Chemical's Plastic Films Division -- everything bad that's said about plastic is just the iceberg tip. Certainly plasic is allowed by most certification programs. But let's pull back once in a while and think about what we're doing and why we're doing it. I do admit that I'm still experimenting with alternatives to plastic for my melons. Tomatoes and peppers and epplants are doing great in my zone 4/5 with green mulches. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 11 10:24:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05831 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26277 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17366; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:16:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.58.198]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17264 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:15:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 708661617 (DYTNB103-42.splitrock.net [209.156.66.88]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA76262; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:15:31 -0400 Message-Id: <199904111415.KAA76262@pimout4-int.prodigy.net> Reply-To: From: "Vincent J McKelvey" To: , Subject: csa vs. other farm sales Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:14:24 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 147 hello everyone. we're a start-up csa in southwest ohio, just west of dayton, ohio (hello you folks who are doing the same in yellow springs). we have a great group of folks as our initial core and are very excited about working together with them. we're very committed to the csa concept but our question is this: for those of you who operate both csa and either farmstands, farmers' markets or other kinds of sales, how do you determine what goes to the csa and what goes to your other kinds of sales? obviously, the csa must have priority but it cannot be our whole farm income this year at least. i'm sure that a whole lot of it has to do with planning, but we could really use some specifics in how you actually do it. thanks for your help. reading your posts has helped move us forward, thinking that we really could do this. noreen willhelm & vince mckelvey spring run farm new lebanon, ohio From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 11 16:20:44 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09814 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11002 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA02380; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:12:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02330 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:11:41 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dKAOa01910 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:10:23 EDT Subject: Re: csa vs. other farm sales To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 148 My CSA is a relatively small part of my total farm sales. Garden co-op members (what most folks think of when they say "CSA") are entitled to a $10 weekly credit for the 22 weeks of the growing season. I've posted order sheets for the months of June through October at my website, complete with prices. If anybody wants to order more than their $10 credit's worth, they just enclose a check for the balance along with their order sheet. Profits from all sales -- CSA, farm stand, auction, grocery store, restaurant, farm market, and other activities -- events, workshops, tours -- are shared at the end of the season by all of the people who worked to make them happen. "Profit" is defined as the money left over after bills are paid and I'm reimbursed for the money I put out up front to get things started at the beginning of the season (so far about $1500 this year) and the insurance and taxes for the next year are paid. If somebody ended up putting in 10% of the total time, whether they designed websites or pulled weeds, they receive 10% of the net profit. This way we are a cooperative association with no employees. I usually plan and plant about six times what I figure I'm going to need to fulfill that $10 weekly promise. God must love drunks and fools, because it almost always works out well. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com monthly order sheets for 1999 at ord06.html, ord07.html....ord10.html From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 11 18:01:39 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11013 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09002 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA06667; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:53:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jake.excite.com (jake-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.221]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06604 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:53:00 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from ringo.excite.com ([199.172.152.145]) by jake.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990411215215.WFHB22643.jake@ringo.excite.com>; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:52:15 -0700 To: VINCEMCKELVEY@prodigy.net Cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: csa vs. other farm sales Message-Id: <923867533.348.770@excite.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:52:13 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.165 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 149 Hello Vince, Wow another CSA in SW Ohio. No I am not from YS but from New Paris just north west of you. We are in our second season with the CSA but have been doing farm markets for about 5 years now. We get the majority of our income from farm market sales than sales to two health food stores and a co-op we belong too and than finally the CSA. So far we have 4 paid shares and and a 5th family that will be paying soon. We have been into heavy planting mode the past few weeks so we haven't attempted much in the way of member recruitment for the CSA so 5 may be all the membership we have this year. At any rate, at this point we do not depend on the CSA aspect of the farm to pay the bills, yet. As the concept grows in the area we will get more members and the plan is to eventually depend on the CSA for the majority of our sales. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 00:49:34 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA15785 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA17094 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA27751; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:38:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27702 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:37:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool035-max7.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.2.235]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA14630 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990411213248.0083c190@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:32:48 -0700 To: From: Fred Chambers Subject: Any School Ag Programs Selling Subscriptions? In-Reply-To: <040011734040149CPIMSSMTPU01@email.msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 150 Hi y'all, Organic food can be cheaper to buy. You gotta cooperate! I'm doing a little project on campus at Cal Poly Pomona (California State Polytechnic University Pomona). The college of agriculture farms about 200-acres of our 1,477-acre campus, selling some produce at local farmers markets, in the campus Farm Store, and most of the crops get fed to campus livestock. My project is looking into market demand for a CSA-style weekly drop at the student apartments on campus. About 800 students live there, and according to my survey figures: over 95% would subscribe if a service were started. Question 1: What other schools are doing this? Most of my food needs are currently met through a small buying coop. We all pitch-in, and our selected shoppers do their thing. For the $24-$29 each of us pays per week, we receive an abundance of bioregional, organic, fresh produce, baked goods, dairy, condiments,pasta, beans, grains, etc. (Beer brewing is another coop, so doesn't show up in this study.) I'm finding that the money spent by the apartment students is about $10 more than I spend per week, and they are almost all unsatisfied with their inadequate consumption of fruits and vegetables. It looks like high time to expand our little coop to include the apartments, but scaling up may be tough. Question 2: What books and/or software packages can you reccommend for buyers coops? Question 3: Where can I find a list of (local) buyers coops? Thanks, Fred FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 10:17:58 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20768 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04590 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18474; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:09:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18358 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:08:12 -0500 (CDT) From: SCook21809@aol.com Received: from SCook21809@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dXHUa07510 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5959348f.244355a5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:56:53 EDT Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: SCook21809@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 151 Greetings Vince, Most small farms that are around today are surviving because they have diversified enough. Don't ever plan on supporting the whole farm with one marketing strategy. You'll loose everything over time. A farm is a dynamic and integrated biosphere which requires diversity to thrive and succeed. A good rule of thumb is to develop a CSA that accounts for 1/3 to no more than 1/2 of your income. Its great to get that financial boost in the spring to cover all of the costs for your growing operation. But you better be producing and selling much more than the CSA requires. Look at Dori's diverse enterprise. She may not be rich. But she will always be there as trends and fashions change. Look to developing added value products you can sell to increase your farm's public recognition. We sell herbal soaps and skin creams, present workshops, sell at the Farmer's Market and have a natural foods dry goods coop in addition to our CSA. Good luck, Art Biggert Ocean Sky Farm Bainbridge Island, WA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 11:08:19 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21769 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18485 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22135; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:57:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22026 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:57:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.200] [209.8.149.132] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AABC692008C; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:01:16 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5959348f.244355a5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:57:27 -0400 To: SCook21809@aol.com From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Cc: CSA list Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 152 Seeing that this is the busiest time of the year I haven't had much time to read this list lately, but it has been raining this morning and Art's message surprised me greatly. I'm sorry to differ with Art, but I know he's wrong. The 1/3,, 1/2 figures must be pulled out of the sky and not experience. Atleast not our experience. Our vegetable share program is well run and much less trendy than herbal soaps and workshops. And it works. We find it a very stable market, much more stable than farmers markets, selling to coops or restaurants. Each year we develop a stronger and more committed customer base consisting of individuals and families who want to directly support family farms and eat vegetables that they can see grow and not interested in buying produce from a faceless inhuman corporate food system. Additionally, it is mixing apples and tomatoes to think that the way you market is the same as a dynamic and integrated biosphere. Our integrated farm management has very little to do with whether we sell our crops directly through a share program or to a middleman. A well managed share program can be more profitable and predicable than other sorts of vegetable operations. It can also bring the consumer of vegetables more in touch with their food than other food distribution models. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 12:57:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24028 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20121 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00817; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:48:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00725 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:47:51 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dXRZa23591 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:32:57 EDT Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 153 In a message dated 4/12/99 10:10:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCook21809@aol.com writes: << Look at Dori's diverse enterprise. >> Just don't look at my housekeeping or that twitch. What twitch? You really have to have a strong dose of obsessive-compulsivism and attention deficit disorder to succeed at the multiple-diversity stuff, I think. If you like leaping from one thing to another, then it's perfect! Dori Did I mention that my only milking doe (Heidi, the website's poster girl) upped and died on me three days after I brought home three bottle babies -- leaving her 30-day-old twins as orphans? I bought a new doe yesterday, the mom of one of the babies, and named her "NOT The Momma" since it's true for most of them. Of course, her nickname is "Momma". Except when she tries to kick me in the face while I'm trimming a foot, then it's "KNOT-head". Thanks to the previous owner, who's agreed to wait for her money for Momma until I get Heidi's vet and backhoe bills paid. In return, I'm taking one more doe who's bred for an August delivery, a red LaMancha who thinks she's a Golden Retriever (even has her own Woobie she carries around). She's a perfect, perfect goat for a petting farm. I'll be rigging a maternity/nursery ward in the basement so she and her babies have a cool place during the heat of the day. Momma had a bull calf put directly on her as soon as I took Buffy away and her feet are so overgrown that her legs are out of kilter and she's got a suspicious lump under her jaw (which I didn't find until I got her home or I would probably have left her there). Of course she's in two-week quarantine with the babies and I don't even pet my guys until after I've gone back to the house to wash with hot water and soap. I'm having the vet come out toward the end of the week and if the jaw thing is an abscess we might have a little bit of surgery going on to get it opened and drained and cleared up before I put her in with the rest of the herd. And I'll have it biopsied to make sure it isn't CL disease. Oy, and somebody told me once "get goats, they're simple". They lied. I tell you, this diversification stuff -- especially livestock as well as produce and especially goats as well as gardens -- is not for the squeamish or those of low energy. Milk replacer would probably have worked, but the babies will grow so much better with real goat milk added to it. And of course the distraction of the new animals is very good for me, Heidi was my very first goat and we were deeply bonded. Of my herd of 11, five are her babies. Emotionally I'm still a hurtin' puppy today, that midnight decision to have the vet release her was a hard one -- but the alternative to this pain is not to love them, and I'll pay the pain price instead of the distance price that too many livestock people choose to protect themselves. I had her buried just above the paddock where new babies enjoy their first days outside, and I'm planting a pansy bed over the grave. Edible flowers, anyone? (oh, stop that, she's five feet below the topsoil). D. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 14:56:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26897 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28064 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11306; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:47:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from worldgroup.kingcon.com (worldgroup.kingcon.com [207.136.229.20]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11185 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:46:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:46:26 -0500 (CDT) X-ROUTED: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:46:32 -0400 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Sjo Received: from sjo [207.136.229.64] by worldgroup.kingcon.com with smtp id AOCOBFAA ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:46:22 -0400 X-Sender: sjol@KingCon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: From: Curtis Sjolander Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Message-ID: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 154 Hello, I'm sorry to differ with Art & Leigh, but they are both wrong. It depends on where you are marketing your produce. Not every person is a good candidate for CSA. Not every person buys at farmers' markets. I know of a farm (in another area) which is 100% CSA which is a stable sustainable operation. I know of another farm (in yet another area) which has 100% of sales to farmers' markets which is a stable sustainable operation. I can imagine an area where herbal soap sales would be more viable and stable than a vegetable CSA... If your area has a sufficient number of people who "fit" the CSA model, then a 100% CSA IS a stable market. If your area has sufficient number of people who "fit" farmers' markets, then 100% of sales to farmers' markets IS a stable market. If your area does NOT have a sufficient number of people who "fit" either model, then a stable market MAY be some combination. In an ideal world, everyone should be a good "fit" for CSA, but I have noticed that the world is not ideal yet! CSA accounts for much less than 1% (I would guess) of food distribution. ALL organic food marketing methods are still a small percentage of the total food produced. ALL small scale direct produce sales are even a smaller percentage of the total food produced. The potential is HUGE, the actuality is still very humble. In my area, from my experience (10 year farmers' markets, 5 years CSA, 7 years farmstand), I have concluded that 100% of any one marketing method or any one or small number of products is not viable. Is ANY combination of farm marketting and products viable and sustainable over the long term in my local area? Ask me in 10 years - I MIGHT have an answer. - Curt in Wheelock, VT still watching the snow melt... -- Curtis Sjolander sjol@KingCon.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 15:22:00 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA27440 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05350 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13189; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:11:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pressroom.com (pressroom.com [198.69.131.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13126 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:11:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.69.131.200] [198.69.131.211] by pressroom.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A64E69700AA; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:15:26 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:11:37 -0400 To: CSA list From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 155 Curt, you're right. I can't imagine living in West Texas or Western Nebraska, or Eastern Colorado and making a living from a vegetable share program. With the city growing closer to our farm (on an hourly basis) a share program works just ducky for us. The reason why we like a share program is its predicability. We know how much to grow, how much I'm going to sell and how much we're going to make. And the best part is, we get the money at about the time we start planting. It takes a lot of the financial worry out of the business of farming. And finally, shares aren't for everyone. There is a great deal of salespersonship in the business. Not just selling the shares but all during the season, working the shareholders so they understand the program and are made happy. It's not good enough to grow great veggies, you have to educate the customers about the program, process and vegetables. If they are happy they renew and they sell the idea to their friends who sign up too. Leigh From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 15:39:38 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28301 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10780 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14332; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:30:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14270 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:29:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA16880; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:29:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-202.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.202) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma016832; Mon Apr 12 14:28:28 1999 Message-ID: <005701be851a$6aa51440$cafb6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Curtis Sjolander" Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:26:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 156 >Hello, >Or we could say everyone is right :). Curt's right its not one size fits all. We are farming "part time" (its alot of hours for part time). Basically only CSA last year want to branch out a bit this year, farmer's market and or some wholesale(sort of retail wholesale in that we would market and deliver not a middleman). We are going to attend a agricultural convention in mid June. I don't know what to expect I don't know what I want to expect. Its put on by the Dept of Food and Ag. and its a two day thing. First day is for Big wigs including the governor, chefs, specialty stores etc. Second day its open to the public. They come into get a dose of "farm" we are hoping of course to get some members and some wholesale accounts. Its $150 for both days. And there will be press there etc. Any suggestions to make us look greeeeeeeeat! Unfortunetly it will be mid June which isn't when we'll have a bunch of stuff to show off. But I will have some stuff. I think I am going to steal an idea I saw a another convention. A vcr playing a continous tape of the farm, no sound just beautifull pictures. Just to save rewinding your make the tape so it show the same few minutes over and over. Of course I know what catches eyes its the animals so they will get star billing. The garden oh yea we'll throw that in. But we get a pretty good size booth what should I include? Beth >I'm sorry to differ with Art & Leigh, but they are both wrong. > >It depends on where you are marketing your produce. Not every person is a >good candidate for CSA. Not every person buys at farmers' markets. I know >of a farm (in another area) which is 100% CSA which is a stable sustainable >operation. I know of another farm (in yet another area) which has 100% of >sales to farmers' markets which is a stable sustainable operation. I can >imagine an area where herbal soap sales would be more viable and stable than >a vegetable CSA... From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 15:42:04 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28378 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11472 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14571; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:33:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14515 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:32:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA17416 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:32:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-202.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.202) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017270; Mon Apr 12 14:31:50 1999 Message-ID: <005c01be851a$e38c01c0$cafb6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "CSA list" Subject: Re: csa & other farm sales: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:30:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 157 ->Leigh, ya said a mouthful there! Sometimes I love it sometimes I want to pull the shade! I would like to get more into cooking, preserving instructions think that would be useful/fun. Beth > There is a great deal of >salespersonship in the business. Not just selling the shares but all during >the season, working the shareholders so they understand the program and are >made happy. It's not good enough to grow great veggies, you have to >educate the customers about the program, process and vegetables. If they >are happy they renew and they sell the idea to their friends who sign up >too. >Leigh > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 19:01:26 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA03944 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17224 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29795; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:53:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29698 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:52:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904122252.RAA29698@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 205486644; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:52:16 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: "Scott Reed" , Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:46:45 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 158 I think that letting the buckwheat reseed will work (though we have never tried it that way). Our goal is fast re-cropping when we are trying to smother, so we till it in before it goes to seed, at least the first time. Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: Scott Reed > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 6:57 PM > > I've often wondered why we don't let the buckwheat reseed itself instead of > tilling it in before it goes to seed. Why not let it go to seed and then > lightly disc it? > - scott > Riverland Farm, Sunderland, MA > > Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm wrote: > > > we. too have had mixed results with plastic (but tending to be effective). > > Another option we have had some success with is a smother crop of > > buckwheat. By planting as soon as weather permits (it is tender) then > > tilling it in just before it goes to seed, immediately planting another > > crop of buckwheat, tilling in as before...as many times as your climate > > permits (3 crops in northern MI). Good dirt and few weeds are the result. > > Jo and Jim > > "The Community Farm" newsletter > > A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture > > http://www.gks.com/TCF/ > > > > ---------- > > > From: Terry King > > > To: CSA-L@prairienet.org > > > Subject: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > > > Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:20 AM > > > > > > On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 04:32:10 +0000, Jeff Herr wrote: > > > > > > >Back on track: Has anyone had any success taking on quack grass with > > plastic > > > mulch? > > > > > > > >-- Jeff > > > > > > > >The Cabbage Ranch > > > >Carnation, WA > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > I just joined this list as I research how to start a CSA type project > > servicing my > > > church community. I'm in the usually sunny Okanogan of E. WA. where we > > have 2 > > > inches of new snow this morning! > > > > > > As for using plastic mulch to suppress quackgrass I've had mixed results. > > It seems > > > to work best if the area can be tilled and many of the stolons removed > > first then use > > > a thick mil plastic, at *least* 4 mil, that thin 1 or 1.5 mil will not > > work. The quackgrass > > > here will put roots down and grow up through thin plastics and cheaper > > weed block > > > fabric even when mulched with several inches. I've also had it grow up > > through 2' of > > > aging manure. > > > > > > I'm currently battling quackgrass myself in the area I want to put my > > tomato house. I > > > will probably use a heavy commercial weed block fabric on top of the soil > > after I till > > > enough to dry out and/or remove enough stolons from the soil. > > > > > > I'm interested to know if there are any CSA's in E. WA? All the listings > > I've found in > > > WA are on the westside. > > > > > > Terry > > > in the Okanogan of E. WA > > > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 21:02:41 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06263 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18180 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA08586; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:53:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from stinger.excite.com (stinger-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.220]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08458 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:52:14 -0500 (CDT) From: goodows@excite.com Received: from spike.excite.com ([199.172.152.97]) by stinger.excite.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with ESMTP id <19990413005120.MDTC15757.stinger@spike.excite.com> for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:51:20 -0700 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Off Topic Funny! Message-Id: <923964679.29942.359@excite.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:51:19 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 209.57.149.89 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 159 A bit off topic but during this busy time of year we all need some levity..... > > > >>> Technology for Country Folk... > >>> > >>> 1. LOG ON: Makin a wood stove hotter. > >>> > >>> 2. LOG OFF: Don't add no more wood. > >>> > >>> 3. MONITOR: Keepin an eye on the wood stove. > >>> > >>> 4. DOWNLOAD: Gettin the farwood off the truk. > >>> > >>> 5. MEGA HERTZ: When yer not kerful gettin the farwood. > >>> > >>> 6. FLOPPY DISC: Whatcha git from tryin to carry too much > >>> farwood. > >>> > >>> 7. RAM: That thar thing whut splits the farwood. > >>> > >>> 8. HARD DRIVE: Gettin home in the winter time. > >>> > >>> 9. PROMPT: Whut the mail ain't in the winter time. > >>> > >>> 10. WINDOWS: Whut to shut wen it's cold outside. > >>> > >>> 11. SCREEN: Whut to shut wen it's blak fly season. > >>> > >>> 12. BYTE: Whut them dang flys do. > >>> > >>> 13. CHIP: Munchies fer the TV. > >>> > >>> 14. MICRO CHIP: Whut's in the bottom of the munchie bag. > >>> > >>> 15. MODEM: Whut cha did to the hay fields. > >>> > >>> 16. DOT MATRIX: Old Dan Matrix's wife. > >>> > >>> 17. LAP TOP: Whar the kitty sleeps. > >>> > >>> 18. KEYBOARD: Whar ya hang the dang keys. > >>> > >>> 19. SOFTWARE: Them dang plastic forks and knifs. > >>> > >>> 20. MOUSE: Whut eats the grain in the barn. > >>> > >>> 21. MAINFRAME: Holds up the barn roof. > >>> > >>> 22. PORT: Fancy Flatlander wine > >>> > >>> 23. ENTER: Northerner talk fer "C'mon in y'all" > >>> > >>> 24. RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY: Wen ya cain't 'member whut ya > >>> paid fer the rifle when yore wife asks. > >>> > >>> 25. MOUSE PAD: That hippie talk fer the rat hole. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder belt CSA New Paris, OH http://members.delphi.com/organicgirl _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 12 21:21:36 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06446 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA22073 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA10079; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:13:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09860 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:10:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.244.182.210] (dialup-209.244.182.210.NewYork2.Level3.net [209.244.182.210]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04348 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904130110.SAA04348@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:09:19 -0500 Subject: From: "Jaclyn Oddi" To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 160 am still tryng hard to unsubscribe but dont understand this alias/list/etc stuff cld someone pls put into common language the protocol someone must follow to be unsubscribed pls o pls? From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 13 04:45:51 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA12483 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA20513 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA01511; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:38:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from animal.blarg.net (michelle@animal.blarg.net [206.124.128.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01470 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:37:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (michelle@localhost) by animal.blarg.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA24458; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:37:15 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:37:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michelle Y. Crawford" To: DGreen47@aol.com cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch In-Reply-To: <849d0ddc.2441bb49@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 161 I would agree that plastic is BAD, but in the world of sustainable organic agriculture, with my personal single parent, homeschooling, activist, adopting, teaching, and grant writing, being available to my community who are more vulnerable than me, farming self...it gives me a way to have my beds ready when I am. The plastic lasts 3 years if you roll it up at the end of spring, and even longer if you are in a patching mode. This is a wonderful and hard living (farming...a lifestyle choice, as I often hear), and the sustainability issue in my mind involves more than how long it takes plastic to decompose at the dump... Michelle Crawford, Pacific Potager, organic farm and nursery, 27918 Vashon Hwy SW Vashon, WA 98070 On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 DGreen47@aol.com wrote: > Another hearty vote for buckwheat here, where my problem was Terminal > Knotgrass. > > Millet is also terrific for weed suppression. I put it in for that purpose, > and again to grow a crop for my chickens. Of course it was just a cover crop > and in one of my earlier years so I didn't record the exact variety etc. -- > but I just sold the last wrist-thick bunched ornamental spray of the stuff > for $4.50 -- it was a GREAT crop and a ready market. I'd love to plant the > same thing again. > > As an organic farmer I resist the use of nonrenewable resources, especially > ones that pose a disposal problem. I worked for several years for Mobil > Chemical's Plastic Films Division -- everything bad that's said about plastic > is just the iceberg tip. Certainly plasic is allowed by most certification > programs. But let's pull back once in a while and think about what we're > doing and why we're doing it. > > I do admit that I'm still experimenting with alternatives to plastic for my > melons. Tomatoes and peppers and epplants are doing great in my zone 4/5 > with green mulches. > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 13 07:00:53 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA13124 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA12667 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA04043; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:51:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03919 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:48:06 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dALSa22984 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:46:57 EDT Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 162 Use of plastic is a personal choice and I didn't mean to imply any criticism of organic farmers who choose to use it -- especially since most of them do the extra work mentioned by Michelle of re-use and patching and using again. And I'm looking very seriously at one of those new plastic solar barns, and my experiments re: alternatives to plastic are continuing. Some folks might not be lucky enough to have as many rocks as I do -- I can pile them in towers three feet high in my heat-loving plants' rows, plus lay them as a mulch to suppress weeds. Channery silt loam, heavy on the channery. My cooperative extension guys continue to marvel that I "make" anything grow here. Hey, seeds want to grow. All I do is encourage them a little bit. And if we're going to continue to pave over the accessible river bottom land and turn it into WalMart parking lots, somebody had better figure out how to grow food on the hills. Everybody's conditions and choices are different. Viva diversity! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 13 14:01:12 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00836 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25775 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA01221; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:51:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-oe4.hotmail.com [207.82.253.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA01013 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:49:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 39753 invoked by uid 0); 13 Apr 1999 17:49:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19990413174932.39751.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 192.138.149.4 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:49:32 PDT X-Originating-IP: [192.138.149.4] From: "Laura Trent" To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Q.A.I. Organic Certification Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:49:32 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 163 I am wondering if anyone out there knows about Quality Assurance International? They offer organic certification in 6-8 weeks instead of the 6-8 months required by the CCOF (California Certified Organic Farmers) process. Are they crooks, scoundrels or perfectly legitimate? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 14 09:02:30 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17679 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA24854 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA04104; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:53:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mufn.org (mufn.org [198.108.218.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA04024 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:52:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904141252.HAA04024@firefly.prairienet.org> Received: from mufn.org ([198.108.218.2]) by mufn.org (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 75800535; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:52:07 GMT From: "Jim and Jo at Five Springs Farm" To: , Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:36:13 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 164 One source of plastic that might make you feel better about using it is the scrap from lumber yards. Every load of lumber that comes in is covered with a heavy plastic that is almost all pitched into the dumpster. It is usually black on one side, white on the other. Though often in rough shape, many pieces of various lengths and widths can be found that are almost undamaged. Ask the folks at the yard and they will likely save the better ones back for you. We have used this material as a mulch, but more often as a substitute for those blue tarps that do not last nearly as long as the free stuff from the lumber yard. REUSE! Jo and Jim "The Community Farm" newsletter A Voice for Community Supported Agriculture http://www.gks.com/TCF/ ---------- > From: DGreen47@aol.com > To: csa-l@prairienet.org > Subject: Re: Intro and Quackgrass and plastic mulch > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 6:46 AM > > Use of plastic is a personal choice and I didn't mean to imply any criticism > of organic farmers who choose to use it -- especially since most of them do > the extra work mentioned by Michelle of re-use and patching and using again. > > And I'm looking very seriously at one of those new plastic solar barns, and > my experiments re: alternatives to plastic are continuing. Some folks might > not be lucky enough to have as many rocks as I do -- I can pile them in > towers three feet high in my heat-loving plants' rows, plus lay them as a > mulch to suppress weeds. > > Channery silt loam, heavy on the channery. My cooperative extension guys > continue to marvel that I "make" anything grow here. Hey, seeds want to > grow. All I do is encourage them a little bit. And if we're going to > continue to pave over the accessible river bottom land and turn it into > WalMart parking lots, somebody had better figure out how to grow food on the > hills. > > Everybody's conditions and choices are different. Viva diversity! > > Dori Green > Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living > Corning, NY > > http://www.agrove.com > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 14 11:49:09 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21326 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02268 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA06637; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:40:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06426 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:37:33 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dYYIa01910 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:36:43 EDT Subject: plastic To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Reply-To: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id KAA06427 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 165 Some members in our CSA are concerned about harmful chemicals and off-gassing in plastic mulch, so we don't use it. We use living mulch (Dutch clover) and straw instead. I have not been able to find much specific information on the topic of the harmful effects of platic mulch, but I'd rather play it safe. —Heidi Lewis Fredericksburg, VA From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Apr 14 22:36:18 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04818 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA12573 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08509; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:28:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08395 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:25:40 -0500 (CDT) From: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Received: from HowdiHeidi@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dYEWa23591 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a5382cc.2446a5fb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:16:27 EDT Subject: RE: plastic and living mulch To: CSA-L@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Reply-To: HowdiHeidi@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by firefly.prairienet.org id VAA08396 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 166 Hi Heidi, Could you tell me how you use living mulch, and which crops you use it with? I am a very small, very new, market gardener in DC and will be growing all kinds of leaf lettuce, heirloom tomatoes, tomatillios and a few herbs. Could I underseed the tomatoes with a live mulch? Thanks, Kelly Kelly, We use living mulch (usually Dutch clover) primarily in paths. I think you have to be careful not to let your living mulch use up too much of the precious moisture in the soil in the heat of the summer, especially with a crop like tomatoes. I have read about Virginia Cooperative Extension tests done using a cover crop of hairy vetch prior to planting certain crops (melons specifically, but vetch is great green manure for a tomato bed)— the vetch is mowed down and serves as a mulch (as straw would.) Since it's also nitrogen-fixing, it could be dug into the soil along the tomato rows to add organic matter—leaving the mowed vetch on the sides of the row for mulch. Anyway, I'm going to try it this year. From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 15 20:01:32 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA13739 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA20109 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23658; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:52:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23564 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:51:53 -0500 (CDT) From: XOAXON@aol.com Received: from XOAXON@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dGZBa00659; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:50:03 EDT Subject: Re: csa vs. other farm sales To: DGreen47@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: XOAXON@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 167 Dear Mr. Green and all others who make up this list. My name is David Durick. For some time now I have had a website featuring articles from people on the land. The website has grown into much I had not anticipated. Now I have accumulated a little information and several requests from members of my list to put in a room on sustainable agriculture. I use information from those who are doing it mostly, and really could use the help of a few folks on this list. Maybe you could gain a few things too since a part of the site has to do with marketing. Right now I am transferring it to a new site, but everything works, I think. I don't want to spam anybody, but I would appreciate as many of you visiting as possible. I really do need the help. Thanx David Joseph Durick Fresno, Ca agrispec@aol.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 15 20:12:59 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA13977 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA22877 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA24779; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:03:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24735 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:03:42 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dHXTa25133 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5aa89a5a.2447d814@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:02:28 EDT Subject: So THAT'S the Problem! To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 168 When I approached somebody today about the CSA idea I got told in no uncertain terms that I shouldn't be expecting or asking people to finance _my_ gardening hobby. I didn't think to ask how it's okay for the supermarket to be paid for the food people buy, but for some reason it's not okay for me to be paid for delivering food. It's enough to make a farmer hope the comet falls and the supermarkets disappear and you can rock on your front porch surrounded by your burgeoning crop fields of open-pollinated food while these idiots crawl up begging for scraps. I didn't say all of my fantasies were pleasant ones. ;-( It's been a rough day. I've also got a neighbor who's decided to go after me via my livestock guardian dog, filing complaints with the dog warden because he barks at her kids when they walk by the farm throwing rocks at him. I've given them bags of dog biscuits to throw. I think they ate them. And a woman descended on me in a fury at the drug store today with "it's 60 degrees out and that poor dog is sitting in that car with all of the windows shut" (not true, the back window was open and my errand took a total of five minutes -- plus two more to listen to the tirade). The more I see of people, the better I like goats. Or maybe I should just decline to do any more Thursdays. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 15 21:11:56 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14716 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06610 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA27771; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:57:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27710 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:57:18 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dVOFa07981 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <29948ff0.2447e432@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:54:10 EDT Subject: Re: csa vs. other farm sales To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 169 Not to be nit-picky, but if anybody wants me to visit their website I find it helpful to be supplied with the URL. Dori Green Hey, I stuck it out with Himself for 19 years -- I EARNED that title, durn it! If I'm being mistaken for a "Mr." maybe I'd better clean up and put the earrings back on (they came off for the baby goat season -- once in my life running at top speed bent over double alongside a buckling with a dangly pierced earring firmly in his toothy little grip is plenty for me). They don't mention that stuff in the "Have Fun With Backyard Goats" books, do they? From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Thu Apr 15 22:25:33 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA16605 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25151 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA02647; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:16:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02593 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:16:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA09803; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:15:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-68.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.68) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009745; Thu Apr 15 21:14:55 1999 Message-ID: <002001be87ae$ae934960$57fe6ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: So THAT'S the Problem! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:13:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 170 Yikes Dori pretty backbreaking hobby. Its easy for me to say since she didn't say that to me but guess you'll have to ingnore her, its her kind that has allowed industrialized farming to expand. And if you think about it the person who was so concerned about your dog suppose they'd like the conditions in say a confinement hog farm? Little tiny improvements in attitude thats what we are looking for. Remember its spring you have baby goats, and planting has begun...............my back aches and I am still looking forward to some more planting this week-end (the day jobs of the guys means we are a bit of week-end warriors). Beth >When I approached somebody today about the CSA idea I got told in no >uncertain terms that I shouldn't be expecting or asking people to finance >_my_ gardening hobby. I didn't think to ask how it's okay for the >supermarket to be paid for the food people buy, but for some reason it's not >okay for me to be paid for delivering food. > >It's enough to make a farmer hope the comet falls and the supermarkets >disappear and you can rock on your front porch surrounded by your burgeoning >crop fields of open-pollinated food while these idiots crawl up begging for >scraps. > >I didn't say all of my fantasies were pleasant ones. ;-( It's been a rough >day. I've also got a neighbor who's decided to go after me via my livestock >guardian dog, filing complaints with the dog warden because he barks at her >kids when they walk by the farm throwing rocks at him. I've given them bags >of dog biscuits to throw. I think they ate them. > >And a woman descended on me in a fury at the drug store today with "it's 60 >degrees out and that poor dog is sitting in that car with all of the windows >shut" (not true, the back window was open and my errand took a total of five >minutes -- plus two more to listen to the tirade). > >The more I see of people, the better I like goats. > >Or maybe I should just decline to do any more Thursdays. > >Dori Green >Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living >Corning, NY > >http://www.agrove.com > > From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 11:07:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25154 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28936 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05404; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:59:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from m-5.i-link-2.net (root@m-5.i-link-2.net [206.129.152.6]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05265 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:58:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [206.129.152.144] (wormhole-a75.myhome.net [206.129.152.144]) by m-5.i-link-2.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA09714 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:58:46 -0700 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: "J. Eric & Karen A. Rains" Subject: irrigation Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 171 Hi, we are setting up for irrigation this year and plan to put a field pump in our pond and use rain tape/soaker hoses. We are starting small this year (only using about 1/8 acre for the garden) And, like many farmers, our funds are limited. I am just curious as to what others are doing. Karen Rains J. Eric & Karen A. Rains Lacamas Lakes Ranch jnkrains@myhome.net From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 11:30:49 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25604 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05419 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07232; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:22:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07172 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:21:54 -0500 (CDT) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id dKPYa21075 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2ba60e9d.2448af27@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:20:07 EDT Subject: Trees! To: csa-l@prairienet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: DGreen47@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 172 << Remember its spring you have baby goats, and planting has begun.............. >> Last week the ground was still frozen here so plowing hasn't started yet. Just as I got home from my "Thursday from Hell" and started thinking what else might go wrong and deciding no, I didn't want to know, I found a UPS sticker on my front door. Oh goodie, those late herbs arrived! Uh uh. The Fedco trees for the SARE project are here, a full month early! Bare-root stock all, about 200 of them. I'm going to call the backhoe guy and see if he can dig out at couple of trenches so I can heel them in right away -- complicated by the fact that it's raining and he's a little leery about my field when it's wet (we almost lost a John Deere out there last year). If I can't convince him I guess I'll haul out my walking tractor, a shallow trench will be better than nothing. Engine start-up prayers to the deity of your choice are welcome. Anybody within driving distance want to celebrate Arbor Day with me this weekend??? I'll put on chicken soup and homemade bread and we'll have a party! Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY Maps at http://www.agrove.com/location.html From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 16 15:20:40 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ES