From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Jan 25 02:42:49 1999 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:42:49 -0500 (EST) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0917249135 0000005938 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 2 15:19:24 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA25089 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA04389 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA07644; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA00838 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:08:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from MAILSERV.CIWMB.CA.GOV ([156.41.30.32]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00834 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ciwmb.ca.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:07:36 -0700 Message-ID: <23994649BBB4CF11A9670000000000016DD5AE@ciwmb.ca.gov> From: "Robb, Casey" To: "'greenbuilding@crest.org'" Subject: GBlist: California Waste Board - Web Site Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:07:32 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 Web site info, for anyone interested: The California Integrated Waste Management Board has a web site at http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov. The page on construction & demolition (C&D) recycling can be located by selecting "Waste Management Programs" and "Construction & Demolition Debris Recycling." You will find there 2 searchable databases: (1) ~500 C&D recyclers in California, searchable by material category and county, and (2) ~450 recycled construction product manufacturers whose products are available in California, searchable by product category, and county or state. The fact sheets are either viewable or downloadable, and include topics such as recycled aggregate, asphalt pavement, drywall, construction product testing and approval, wood waste, job site separation, carpets, Caltrans (State Dept. of Transp.) and recycled products, asphalt roofing shingles recycling, and recycled latex paint. We have other publications in progress, so you might want to visit the site from time to time, to see what's been added. Feel free to contact me if you have questions, suggestions, or additional information. (FYI - I will be out of the office from Sept 17 to Oct 20.) Thank you, Casey Robb, P.E. California Integrated Waste Management Board Sacramento, California (916) 255-2930 crobb@ciwmb.ca.gov ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 2 15:24:38 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA25153 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA05470 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA07766; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA01099 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:16:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from freenet.calgary.ab.ca (srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca [198.161.243.11]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01094 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca(198.161.243.11) by srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca via smap (V1.3) id ZZ64440; Tue Sep 2 13:12:17 1997 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:12:16 -0600 (MDT) From: Jorg Ostrowski To: Charles Barnard Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: paper mache/clay POND liner In-Reply-To: <199708261230.IAA06843@solstice.crest.org> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 Has anyone got experience or a reference to the use of either of the techniquess above, which were referred to in a book on ponds? If anyone is so kind to forward this to another more appropriate listerve (or can suggest one to me), I would be grateful. _________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm _______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 2 22:51:30 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA00118 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA14081 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA18166; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA13505 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:41:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA13500 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA14772; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 19:41:39 -0700 Message-ID: <340CCDAB.371467C9@cow-net.com> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 19:38:35 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MAry Sayer CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: list nanny, back off X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 I have to agree. I appreciate the moderators role and comments in this last episode. I regret my own comments. Its too easy to be reactive in this kind of forum and with this degree of anonymity. I know (or should occasionally be reminded) that the kinds of comments I made are the kind that should be made face to face, if at all. After a few months on this forum I realized that I valued it primarily as a technical resource, not just for the information but also for the encouragement that results from hearing from people engaged practically in green building activities. Its generally easy to tell from the focus or intent of questions that there are theoretical and political differences but the generosity and integrity of correspondence and responses has precluded such concerns and instead has, for me anyway, generated a sense of common purpose and respect. Thanks for the moderation and thanks for the forum. John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. terrain@cow-net.com > > Please don't back from a facilitating role here. I don't think it is > a > matter of stiffling speech... just suggesting that it take place in > another > forum. Any discussion needs a good faciltator to stay focused. > Thankfully, > we have one here. Let's not throw it away... it's the difference > between an > interesting forum and a bar room (Bar rooms are interesting places > ... > good for observing human behavior; not that conducive to technical > discourse). > > Bruce Coldham > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Please don't back from a facilitating role here. I don't think it is > a > matter of stiffling speech... just suggesting that it take place in > another > forum. Any discussion needs a good faciltator to stay focused. > Thankfully, > we have one here. Let's not throw it away... it's the difference > between an > interesting forum and a bar room (Bar rooms are interesting places > ... > good for observing human behavior; not that conducive to technical > discourse). > > Bruce Coldham > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 3 12:49:30 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA09596 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA09509 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA29966; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA27794 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:37:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from rmc1.crocker.com (rmc1.crocker.com [204.97.12.50]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA27790 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.246.4.11] (iplink005.crocker.com [205.246.4.5]) by rmc1.crocker.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA14692 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:39:20 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:45:21 -0500 To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: brucecol@crocker.com (Bruce Coldham) Subject: GBlist: General Conditions Spec Language Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id MAA09596 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 Kurt, Re: „I am seeking a concise paragraph or two for the Summary of Work section „that instructs contractors and bidders to comply with environmentally „responsible building practices. Write down you best effort (you seem to know what you want) and post it for review and comment. Don't let the stilted style of project specification corrupt you. Al that you learned about good clear writing should be aplied to these documents ... including wit .. so long as it doesn't obfuscate. You might require contract bidders to submit a "waste management plan" (or what ever you want to call it) for review and adoption at the preconstruction confernece, or at some paticular time at the begging of the project. You might also require an inventory of waste and where it went. So far as requiring "green" materials in the building. The architect has to do the homework and specify ... precisely. There's no short cut here. I presume that Brown is not constrained by the public bidding laws so you are in a better position to get what is specified. Bruce Coldham ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 3 16:27:43 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA12638 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA03328 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06521; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04913 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:12:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.40]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04909 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:12:39 -0400 (EDT) From: SAMALEK@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA10432 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970903161028_1144894826@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Retaining wall waterproofing Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 Can anyone recommend a "green" waterproofing system for subterranean retaining walls ? Thanks, Safwat Malek Enviro International Architects / Builders samalek@aol.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 3 16:27:43 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA12638 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA03328 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06521; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04913 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:12:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.40]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04909 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:12:39 -0400 (EDT) From: SAMALEK@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA10432 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970903161028_1144894826@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Retaining wall waterproofing Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Can anyone recommend a "green" waterproofing system for subterranean retaining walls ? Thanks, Safwat Malek Enviro International Architects / Builders samalek@aol.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 3 17:34:03 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA15061 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:34:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA19815 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA08306; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA06929 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:22:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA06921 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epsform.cdsnet.net (med-1130.dip.cdsnet.net [206.107.17.130]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA07196 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:24:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:24:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709032124.OAA07196@mail.cdsnet.net> X-Sender: epsform@mail.cdsnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: DARRIN THORNTON Subject: Re: GBlist: Retaining wall waterproofing Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 We have tried the "RUB_R_WALL" system and have been pleased. It has no petroleum product in it. No leaching of the product into the soils actually one can "EAT" the product it is so inert. Anyway, they are at 1-888-673-6055 BRAD or Duane. or locals can call 1-541-673-6055 fax at 541-673-5525. It is Asphalt free, too. Darrin At 04:14 PM 9/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >Can anyone recommend a "green" waterproofing system for subterranean >retaining walls ? > >Thanks, > >Safwat Malek >Enviro International Architects / Builders >samalek@aol.com >______________________________________________________________________ >This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST >Environmental Building News and Oikos >For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. >______________________________________________________________________ > > Thanks again, Darrin Thornton @ Polysteel Alternative Building Systems, Inc. 664 Hillandale Circle Eagle Point, Oregon 97524 Office 541-830-FORM (3676) Fax 541-830-3611 cell phone email text only 5419443626@mobile.att.net EMAIL: epsform@cdsnet.net www.cdsnet.net/Business/Polysteel That's about all the electronic leashes I want!! ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 3 17:56:38 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA15245 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA25239 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA08714; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA07591 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:47:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pike.sover.net (pike.sover.net [204.71.16.17]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA07586 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.136.199.91] (usr0a26.bratt.sover.net [207.136.199.91]) by pike.sover.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08232 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:49:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709032149.RAA08232@pike.sover.net> Subject: GBlist: New Director needed for Habitat's environmental programs Date: Wed, 3 Sep 97 17:51:04 -0400 x-sender: ebn@sover.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Nadav Malin To: "Greenbuilding List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 Hi folks, This seems like an opportunity for someone with the right know-how, commitment to really affect a lot of construction! Habitat for Humanity International is seeking a new director for their Construction and Environmental Resources Department, formerly the Department of Environment. The previous director didn't much background in environmental issues--it seems there is a wide open opportunity here to bring some new ideas and practices into play. But it means working with a very large and decentralized organization. Anyhow, if you're interested, contact the personnel office at HBHI in Americus, Georgia at 912/924-6935. Nadav EEEEE BBBB NN N ENVIRONMENTAL BUILDING NEWS RR 1, Box 161 E B B N N N The Newsletter Brattleboro, VT 05301 EEE BBBB N N N on Environmentally tel. 802/257-7300 E B B N NN Responsible Design fax 802/257-7304 EEEEE BBBB N N and Construction http://www.ebuild.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 3 19:15:00 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA17118 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA11455 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA10205; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA09977 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:06:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA09971 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA20896; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:06:28 -0700 Message-ID: <340DECBE.FF180538@cow-net.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 16:03:26 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SAMALEK@aol.com CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Retaining wall waterproofing X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970903161028_1144894826@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 For containing the waterproofing in the structure itself Zypek is a waterproofing agent that is non-toxic. Available either as an admixture for batch processing (requires a higher cement ratio) and adds approx. 20 per yard concrete cost. It is also available as an external or internal surface coating. Works by crystallization. Is used for potable water containment (dams, etc.) I used it for an interior wall (hillside) that was fronting a major drainage flow. The key for waterproofing is only partly the resistance of the wall - the major concern is dealing with groundwater flows and any potential for hydrostatic pressure and remember that any water flows will conduct heat from both soil and building. Problem areas in concrete work are effectively waterproofing either expansion joints or cold joints between pours or the expense of monolithic design and pours. Another option is using epdm as a complete subterranean wrap (can come in very large sheet dimensions or be glue jointed). There are a number of greener options for membrane materials. Hope this helps John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. SAMALEK@aol.com wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a "green" waterproofing system for subterranean > retaining walls ? > > Thanks, > > Safwat Malek > Enviro International Architects / Builders > samalek@aol.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 3 21:47:24 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA18739 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA13951 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA13043; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA14365 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:39:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from neptune.olympus (neptune.imagen.net [204.244.138.12]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA14361 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709040138.VAA14361@solstice.crest.org> Received: from ss16.imagen.net by neptune.olympus with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id RWANYZ13; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:44:14 -0700 Subject: Re: GBlist: Retaining wall waterproofing Date: Wed, 3 Sep 97 18:40:46 -0000 x-sender: elizwhite@mail.imagen.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Elizabeth White To: "John Salmen" cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 >Another option is using epdm as a complete subterranean wrap (can come >in very large sheet dimensions or be glue jointed). There are a number >of greener options for membrane materials. How "green" is EPDM? I've used it quite a bit and find it useful, but the offgassing is offensive and does not diminish with time, so I try to use alternatives. Am I wrong? -- Elizabeth White, Sustainable Housing Solutions 171 Vesuvius Bay Road, Salt Spring Island, BC V8K 1K3 (250) 537-2616, fax:(250) 537-2681, e-mail: elizwhite@saltspring.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 01:24:04 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id BAA21495 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id BAA00846 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA17701; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA19458 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:16:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA19453 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA24965; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:16:01 -0700 Message-ID: <340E435B.9AAC06F0@cow-net.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:13:00 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elizabeth White CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Retaining wall waterproofing X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709040138.SAA22561@bossie.cow-net.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 Hi Elizabeth Zypec is 'green' in terms of product definition and current standards but it would be worth a further look (I was quite surprised when I started looking closely at floor finishes marketed as environmentally friendly and looked at background data sheets on the current mediums, defoaming agents and levelers used). Zypec, I think, is a form of sodium silicate (trad. called waterglass), and is the most acceptable form of concrete waterproofing (as an additive) and damproofing (as a surface coating) that I have found - to date, a lot better than tar. I mentioned epdm as an option (among which there are 'greener' versions) because it is (in most forms) a stabler product than a bituminous product. I have used it as a waterproofing roofing membrane under concrete and earth decks - as an alternative to bituminous (torch-on) products. There are low voc latex membranes, there are even pure rubber membrane products still available. I do not know the full chemical breakdown of the various epdm's on the market - it is not my first choice of product primarily because of the bonding agents used and secondarily because of the polymers used but there are not a lot of options. When I was looking at earth roofs and concrete roof decks - I was initially attracted to using a pure earth system (alternating sod layers) and for other applications a pure concrete deck, however it was one of those situations where I could not provide any guarantees of performance and could not put the client at excessive risk. Ericksons early flat roofs on Hornby leaked for quite some time (I'm told) and I think those were on a bituminous base. Poly might be an acceptable option as it is a non-chlorine product and could be heat sealed - but it would be a risk. Anyway I think I've conveyed the drift that it is a balancing act in which the solutions are to some degree always a little wrong and a little right. I would like to hear of some of the alternatives that your working with. John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. Elizabeth White wrote: > > >Another option is using epdm as a complete subterranean wrap (can > come > >in very large sheet dimensions or be glue jointed). There are a > number > >of greener options for membrane materials. > > How "green" is EPDM? I've used it quite a bit and find it useful, but > the > offgassing is offensive and does not diminish with time, so I try to > use > alternatives. Am I wrong? > > -- > Elizabeth White, Sustainable Housing Solutions > 171 Vesuvius Bay Road, Salt Spring Island, BC V8K 1K3 > (250) 537-2616, fax:(250) 537-2681, e-mail: elizwhite@saltspring.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 08:47:35 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA24990 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA05756 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA22068; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA24113 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:39:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA24109 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:39:57 -0400 (EDT) From: NMBlues@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id IAA08842 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970904084149_-367158013@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: vinyl window frames & heat Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 Dear list, I have a client with a vintage 70's passive solar house that has NO overhang or other shade on the lower floor of the south side. They have the window quilt system which they swear by as the best thing since the wheel. The ORIGINAL problem: a storm and (i am guessing) many years of heat build up between the 6'X6' aluminum framed sliding glass doors (not thermally broken) and the window quilt has left 2-36 sf openings without working glazing seals. What I have read (briefly): March/April '96 EBN article on windows. I gather that if the owner is unwilling to pay for thremal breaks (i did explain that whatever the owner did to this house-even though they are moving-ultimately affects them through the world down the line---maybe the extra money will appear for the thermal breaks) the best energy-wise (from a end-user standpoint, not embodied energy) product may be the vinyl frame, as wood is even more expensive than thermal breaks in this type of opening, specifically. The NEW problem: Vinyl seems to start degrading (per same article) at high temperatures. The window quilt system certainly causes high temps. The QUESTIONs: Would the owner be serving the world better putting in aluminum frame windows and adding shade from exterior or putting in thermally broken windows? Can the owner put vinyl insulated frames in this location without new exterior shading to relieve the heat buildup behind the window quilt system? Can the owner reasonably install vinyl frames at all in this location (I am voting no based on the possibility of frame degradation coupled with the PVC content of the frame and the relatively [compared to wood and metal] new mass use [therefore little history of longterm viability] of vinyl windows)? The owner is being encouraged to install vinyl by a window installer for only $50 more each! Any help (point me to a resource that i can get on the net or at libraries or if you know similar situations, or people who do) I could receive would be appreciated. Sincerely, Dona Stankus, AIA Dona Stankus, Architect Raleigh, NC ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 10:20:40 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA26426 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA25328 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23297; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25997 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:13:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from iac6.navix.net (iac6.navix.net [207.91.5.4]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25993 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.96.104.23 (xyp29p13.navix.net [204.96.104.23]) by iac6.navix.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA17646; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:14:57 -0500 Message-ID: <340E6F67.1DCF@navix.net> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:20:57 +0100 From: Joyce Coppinger X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-Navix (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Stucco and Polymers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 What polymers are used or can be used in stucco products used for strawbale construction? Concern is for breathable wall which won't crack over time because of climatic conditions (freeze and thaw cycles, moisture, hot to cold climatic changes). What types of stucco products are available using "natural" ingredients which would have the same or similar properties as stucco or coatings with polymers? ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 14:03:34 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA00214 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA17164 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA29435; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA02499 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:53:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from x11.boston.juno.com (x11.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.26]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA02494 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:53:46 -0400 (EDT) From: woodeneagle@juno.com Received: (from woodeneagle@juno.com) by x11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id LLI27761; Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:53:06 EDT To: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:55:26 -0800 Subject: GBlist: Re: greenbuilding-digest V1 #373 Message-ID: <19970904.075544.12310.1.woodeneagle@juno.com> References: <199708282058.QAA16843@solstice.crest.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-21 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 Charlie: Charlie What happens to your individual property rights when your immediate neighbor does something that dramatically affects your property? For example: You have never had any flooding problems, because your neighbor has a wetland. One day, that wetland is filled. During the next cycle of heavy rains, your property is flooded, your house is substantially damaged. Does your neighbor still have the right to fill that wetland, that was on his private property? Do you get to sue your neighbor? Or should there be some regulation of how you use your property? What if your neighbor wants to run a pig farm or a dog kennel....do you have any rights to keep his smell, noise or runoff away from you? He is just doing what he wants to do with his own private property....and according to you...no one should infringe on his rights to do so. Should there be no regulation for the public good? What of all the privately owned wetlands that were filled on the Red River north of Grand Forks last spring....when heavy runoff came, there was no sponge to soak it up, and Grand Forks flooded.... Scott Waterman ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 14:03:34 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA00214 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA17164 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA29435; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA02499 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:53:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from x11.boston.juno.com (x11.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.26]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA02494 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:53:46 -0400 (EDT) From: woodeneagle@juno.com Received: (from woodeneagle@juno.com) by x11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id LLI27761; Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:53:06 EDT To: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:55:26 -0800 Subject: GBlist: Re: greenbuilding-digest V1 #373 Message-ID: <19970904.075544.12310.1.woodeneagle@juno.com> References: <199708282058.QAA16843@solstice.crest.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-21 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 Charlie: Charlie What happens to your individual property rights when your immediate neighbor does something that dramatically affects your property? For example: You have never had any flooding problems, because your neighbor has a wetland. One day, that wetland is filled. During the next cycle of heavy rains, your property is flooded, your house is substantially damaged. Does your neighbor still have the right to fill that wetland, that was on his private property? Do you get to sue your neighbor? Or should there be some regulation of how you use your property? What if your neighbor wants to run a pig farm or a dog kennel....do you have any rights to keep his smell, noise or runoff away from you? He is just doing what he wants to do with his own private property....and according to you...no one should infringe on his rights to do so. Should there be no regulation for the public good? What of all the privately owned wetlands that were filled on the Red River north of Grand Forks last spring....when heavy runoff came, there was no sponge to soak it up, and Grand Forks flooded.... Scott Waterman ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 14:39:33 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA00843 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA26364 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00528; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:35:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA03541 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:31:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA03533 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:31:41 -0400 (EDT) From: CeramiChas@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id OAA15455; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970904143313_385436271@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: woodeneagle@juno.com cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: greenbuilding-digest V1 #373 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Dear Scott, You are among the minority that missed the whole point of the thread. Property rights aside....if you or anyone else, disturbs or distroys any part of a wetland, then federal law has been violated and can result in fine or jail. The point I was trying to make is, those on the list that were giving advice to someone having too many cat tails was WRONG in basic concept that one could do as they please on their land...using common sense. My other point being that common sense has been left out of the laws leaving US paying individually and collectively for this short fall in environmental law. You see those cat tails do not belong to them only the illusion of ownership. We the american people have taken claim to those resources. Just because someone has well intentions does not matter to the law, and ignorance is no excuse. What amounts to stepping on a bug in your back yard or pulling weeds around the pond your kids swim in could result in losing everything you own and have worked for is tatamount to govenment insanity. I am all for protecting the environment. And believe our common good must be protected. But I do not believe that every standing body of water in the whole country has to be ursurped by a draconian and insane law. And to make another point, where do we draw the line on a neighbor damaging another by developing their personal resources? Sun light, water, view? What to one is garbage to another is art. Just where would you join the fray over YOUR personal property rights and use. YOU do own property I assume. I would also in keeping with some on the list prefer you email me with your responses. Best, Charlie ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 15:45:10 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA01715 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA14100 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA02005; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA05519 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:34:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from brickbat9.mindspring.com (brickbat9.mindspring.com [207.69.200.12]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05515 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newgreen2 (ip123.islip4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.250.123]) by brickbat9.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA23657; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970904193523.006d7bb0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: doughf@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 15:35:23 -0400 To: NMBlues@aol.com, greenbuilding@crest.org From: Frazer Dougherty Subject: Re: GBlist: vinyl window frames & heat Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 At 08:41 AM 9/4/97 -0400, NMBlues@aol.com wrote: >Dear list, > >I have a client with a vintage 70's passive solar house that has NO overhang >or other shade on the lower floor of the south side. They have the window >quilt system which they swear by as the best thing since the wheel. Try Accurate Dorwin (204/982-4640) for pultruded fiberglass farmes and highly selective coatings & lowe windows. Run Windows 4.1 (Lawrence Berkley Labs 510/486-5606) for glazing, thermal break, shading issues. or try http://www.eren.doe.gov/buildings/tools_directory/ Look at selective window films instead of Window Quilt. best, -------------------------------------------------- Frazer Dougherty doughf@mindspring.com North Fork Retrofit doughf@aol.com (fallback) website: http://www.home-performance.org ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 15:51:23 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA01779 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA15716 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA03165; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA05791 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:43:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from serv1.rof.net (serv1.rof.net [209.38.34.254]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05781 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.38.34.210] (ptp193.rof.net [209.38.34.193]) by serv1.rof.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA22887 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: lisamc@rof.net (Lisa McManigal) Subject: GBlist: Green shopping malls? Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 Is anybody aware of any shopping malls (regional, community and/or strip) that have addressed green concerns? I'm looking for case studies where energy or water efficiency, lighting, materials, smart land use plans or waste management and other operational issues have been addressed, even on a superficial level. I'm working with Global Green USA, who has received a small grant from the US EPA to do some background research on current best practices in environmental management within the retail industry. Any leads would be greatly appreciated! Lisa McManigal Project Manager Retail Center Resource Efficiency Project Global Green USA ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 19:20:03 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA04127 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA09481 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA15400; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA11191 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:08:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from dns1.mcn.org (dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11187 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.189.13.43] (pm25-1-gua-a11.mcn.org [204.189.13.43]) by dns1.mcn.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA00570; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709042310.QAA00570@dns1.mcn.org> Subject: Re: GBlist: Green shopping malls? Date: Thu, 4 Sep 97 16:13:28 +0100 x-sender: comet@mail.mcn.org x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: To: "Lisa McManigal" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id TAA04127 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 On Sept 4 Lisa McManigal asked about: >any shopping malls (regional, community and/or strip) >that have addressed green concerns? We suggest you look at Real Goods located in Northern California. They have built their ³shopping center² off the grid and have plans for lodging & a restaurant. They have a very impressive Internet presence at http://wwww.realgoods.com where you can learn more about their building process and environmentally conscious / sustainable issues. Dianne McKenzie & John Halley C O M E T S T U D I O S : a Consortium of Studios € Environmentally Conscious Architectural Planning and Design € € Digital Imaging & Rendering € Web Design & Development € Telephone: 707-785-2567 & 707-785-2107 E-Mail: comet@cometstudios.com Web Site: http://www.cometstudios.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 21:59:58 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA07791 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA12689 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:55:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA18622; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA15491 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:52:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com (emout09.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.24]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA15486 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:52:39 -0400 (EDT) From: G40michael@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA28410 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970904215148_-534315843@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: ureathane foam Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 I am currently building a home in mid-Michigan. One of the local insulating contractors offers spray ureathane foam. This product is ported to be non- toxic and having a R-8.14/in. This seems wonderful, and I am considering its use. The only drawback I can figur' is that it will be impossible to run any addition wiring in these wall at a later time. I would be using the foam only on exterior(2x4) walls( Foundation to top plate) Does anybody have any experience with this product? It seems like a wonderful product. G. Michael Molnar ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 4 23:34:52 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA09716 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:34:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA07166 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20382; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA17365 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:27:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from server1.mich.com (server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA17361 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pm156-04.dialip.mich.net (pm156-04.dialip.mich.net [198.111.2.79]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA31511; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:26:52 -0400 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:26:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199709050326.XAA31511@server1.mich.com> X-Sender: dwarren@mail.mich.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: Dave Warren Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: wetlands Cc: Rabson/Newman Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 >.................You said: >>if you or anyone else, disturbs or distroys any part >>>of a wetland,then federal law has been violated > >It would have been more accurate to say that if anyone disturbs or destroys >any part of a wetland WITHOUT THE REQUIRED PERMITS, then federal law has been >violated (and possibly state and local laws as well). > >Projects that destroy wetlands are permitted every day, but only after >thorough review by a number of agencies, coordinated by the U.S. Army Corps >of Engineers................... > The information about wetlands permits is correct. But having read the statistics enough to know the ratio of approvals to applications is almost 1:1 in some regions, I'd suggest striking the word "thorough." Being Green requires more than just going through the motions. Dave Warren Rochester, MI ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 01:39:43 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id BAA10917 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id BAA00154 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA22191; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA19253 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:32:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA19249 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA15332; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:32:30 -0700 Message-ID: <340F98BB.90466A7E@cow-net.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:29:31 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: G40michael@aol.com CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: ureathane foam X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970904215148_-534315843@emout09.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 I'm not sure exactly the form of spray foam your are referring to, traditionally concerns with polyurethane foams have been with expanding or blowing agents and their contributions to ozone deplition. I think Icynene (sp.?) is a non cfc or hcfc foam but as far as I know they all contain isocyanates, among other things, for which their is some info. below. John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. HAZARD SUMMARY BACKGROUND: Polyurethane foam is being used more and more as an insulation material in residential construction. Recent experience indicates that some contractors may not be providing workers who handle it with adequate respiratory protection or training in proper work and hygiene practices. Polyurethane foam is usually prepared on site in a closed system. The following materials are mixed in a 1:1 ratio: - base resin, comprising polyols, amines (often tertiary amines) to act as catalyst and plasticizers; and - isocyanate (both monomeric and polymeric), usually methylene bisphenyl isocyanate (MDI). Normally, two workers are involved in spraying the foam: a sprayer and a helper who cuts off excess foam and cleans it up. To clean the spray gun, the workers use an organic solvent such as glycol ether (ethylene glycol monoethyl ether). HEALTH HAZARDS: When sprayed, materials that contain isocyanates can cause primary irritation, sensitization and allergic reactions. The main organs affected are the respiratory system, the eyes and the skin. Long-term effects include chronic bronchitis and asthma. Exposure to the vapour of the tertiary amine, which is normally a component of the catalyst in producing the foam, may cause eye irritation. This may result in temporary blurred vision or the appearance of a blue haze or halo around lights. There is a safety hazard if a worker's vision is severely affected. Tertiary amines may also cause allergic asthmatic reactions. Repeated or prolonged skin contact with the organic solvents used in cleaning may result in skin irritation or rashes. Glycol ether may be absorbed in significant amounts through intact skin. LOCATIONS AND SECTORS Residential and commercial construction. APPLICABLE LEGISLATION The construction sector is exempt from the Isocyanates Regulation (RRO 842/90), but the requirements of the WHMIS Regulation (RRO 860/90) do not apply to construction. A draft regulation on isocyanates on construction projects is being developed. The Occupational Health and Safety Act states: "An employer shall take every precaution reasonable in the circumstances for the protection of the worker" (s. 25(2)(h)). PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES FOR SPRAYING POLYURETHANE FOAM - Both the sprayer and the helper must use the appropriate class of air-supplying respirator operated in pressure- demand or other positive-pressure mode while polyurethane is being sprayed. If compressed air is used for respirators, it must meet applicable CSA Standards. - The Construction Safety Association of Ontario recommends that a roped-off safety area should be established around the spraying operation for the protection of other workers. The boundary should be three metres (10 ft.) from the operation for outdoor spraying and eight metres (25 ft.) for indoor spraying. - Anyone working within three metres (10 ft.) of the operation must wear full protective clothing and respiratory protective equipment (see the ministry's Guide to Isocyanate Regulation, page 26). - Ensure that: - polyurethane components are properly labelled. - the proper Material Safety Data Sheets are available on site, and - workers have been trained as required by the WHMIS Regulation. - In particular, workers must be trained by a competent person in: - the hazards of exposure to isocyanates, organic solvents, and tertiary amines, - proper work and hygiene practices, and - proper use, maintenance and cleaning of respiratory protective equipment. - Work and hygiene practices should include the following: - Provide adequate ventilation to the outdoors from the work area. If mechanical ventilation is used, fans must be non-sparking. - Prohibit any potential source of ignition in the work area. - Clean and decontaminate equipment used in handling isocyanates promptly after using it. - Prohibit eating, drinking and smoking in the work area. - Avoid skin contact with isocyanates and organic solvents: for example, wear polyvinyl alcohol gloves for protection against isocyanates, or chlorinated polyethylene gloves for isocyanates and ethers. Chemical resistance may vary among different products made of the same material, so the resistance of protective clothing should be evaluated under conditions of use. - Wash hands and face before eating, drinking, smoking and going to the washroom and upon completion of work involving isocyanates. - Clean up and dispose of spilled components promptly. Each mobile spraying unit should carry a spill kit. This should contain decontaminants for the isocyanate components (these decontaminants form more stable compounds that can be disposed of safely) and absorbent materials for the polyol/amine catalyst mixture. G40michael@aol.com wrote: > > I am currently building a home in mid-Michigan. One of the local > insulating > contractors offers spray ureathane foam. This product is ported to be > non- > toxic and having a R-8.14/in. This seems wonderful, and I am > considering its > use. The only drawback I can figur' is that it will be impossible to > run any > addition wiring in these wall at a later time. I would be using the > foam > only on exterior(2x4) walls( Foundation to top plate) Does anybody > have any > experience with this product? It seems like a wonderful product. > G. Michael Molnar > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 08:51:59 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA13726 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA11601 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA26607; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA23870 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:43:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pike.sover.net (pike.sover.net [204.71.16.17]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA23866 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.71.18.134] (pm1a4.bratt.sover.net [204.71.18.134]) by pike.sover.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09774; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:45:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: atwilson@sover.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <340F98BB.90466A7E@cow-net.com> References: <970904215148_-534315843@emout09.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Salmen From: Alex Wilson Subject: Re: GBlist: ureathane foam Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 >I'm not sure exactly the form of spray foam your are referring to, >traditionally concerns with polyurethane foams have been with expanding >or blowing agents and their contributions to ozone deplition. I think >Icynene (sp.?) is a non cfc or hcfc foam but as far as I know they all >contain isocyanates, among other things, for which their is some info. >below. > >John Salmen >TERRAIN E.D.S. > A few more comments on polyurethane: Most closed-cell polyurethane today (typically 2 pound per cubic foot) is blown with HCFC-141b. This is much better environmentally than the CFC-11 that was used until a few years ago. But HCFC-141b is the worst of the HCFCs from an ozone-depletion standpoint and is currently scheduled to be phased out by the year 2003. Only one manufacturer that I know of, Foam Tech in North Thetford, Vermont (802/333-4333), uses a totally non-ozone-depleting blowing agent (an HFC) for closed-cell polyurethane. They call this foam "Super Green" and it costs somewhat more than their standard product. Open-cell polyurethane foam for building applications is currently produced by two or three manufacturers, including the Canadian companies Icynene and Demilec. These have zero ozone-depletion effect, because they are blown using water (which produces carbon dioxide as the foaming gas). Because the CO2 leaks out of the open cells and it replaced with air, this type of insulation doesn't insulate as well as closed-cell polyurethane with a low-conductivity HCFC gas in the cells. The R-value of open-cell polyurethane is R-3.6 to R-4 per inch. With any polyurethane foam, however, pay careful attention to safety during installation (see the information John provided with his posting). Both Icynene and Demilec require installers to use full SUPPLIED-AIR breathing equipment during installation. Isocyanates are very toxic, as readers of this discussion group may recall in the thread on MDI resins used in "formaldehyde-free" particleboard (the chemistry is very similar). -Alex Wilson Editor and publisher Environmental Building News (complete back issues through April of this year are now available on our E Build Library CD-ROM--for information, check out our Web site: www.ebuild.com.) ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 11:55:35 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA17033 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA27162 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29691; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA28724 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:46:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.2.92]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA28718; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.174.175.199] (dd43-199.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.175.199]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA20297; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:48:20 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:48:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199709051548.IAA20297@m5.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: bhoward2@sprynet.com (Bion Howard) Subject: GBlist: Stock Home Plans / Energy Efficient - Green To: greenbuilding@crest.org, ee-building@crest.org, AESP-net@aesp.org X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.10.06.22 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Subject: Stock Home Plans / Energy Efficient - Green Bldgs. From: Bion Howard, Building Environmental Science & Tech To: EEBA list, Green Building List, Energy Services Professionals ------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to all the people submitting leads or interest statements about home plans. So far there has been a fairly good response to our previous request for information on available home plans that have energy efficient or "green" building characteristics. We are analyzing the submissions for the listing now. We will gladly accept any further submissions of information on home plans through September 20, 1997. --------------- Contact Information------------------ Mr. Bion D. Howard, Principal Building Environmental Science & Technology P. O. Box 1007, Upper Marlboro, Maryland 20773 USA bdhoward@ix.netcom.com <--> http://www.nrg-builder.com Voice# 410-867-8000 fax# 301-889-0889 ------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 12:33:17 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA17398 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA06018 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA00616; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA00059 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:25:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from cleanair.arb.ca.gov ([146.114.28.200]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00052 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [146.114.11.17] by cleanair.arb.ca.gov with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA16016; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:35:03 -0700 Message-Id: <341032F2.31B7@arb.ca.gov> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:27:30 -0700 From: Tom Phillips Reply-To: tphillip@arb.ca.gov Organization: California Air Resources Board/Resarch Division/Indoor Exposure Assessment X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: GREENBLDGLIST Cc: "LEVIN, HAL" , Lisa McManigal Subject: GBlist: GBLIST: GREEN SHOPPING CENTERS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 LISA: The City of Davis, CA had a General Plan in the 70's and 80's that limited the size of shopping centers. The intent was to make the grocery stores & others services within easy walking or biking distance in this "City of Bikes." It seemed to work very well until the City Council changed, the city faced major budget short-falls, neighboring cities put in super shopping malls, and the only major source of revenue for Davis was new develoment and new shopping centers. Davis has a web site at: http://www.city.davis.ca.us/ It includes the new draft General Plan, which has had a lot of citizen input over the last few years but now appears to be ignored by the City Council. Also, the California Air Resources Board has funded research on transportation issues around shopping centers: http://www.arb.ca.gov (contact Research Division, Economics section). And the Institute of Transportation Studies, both at UC Davis and UC Berkeley, have probably looked at this issue...Hal Levin has worked on green bldg. design for Walmart, I believe (hleven@cruzio.com)...we get a lot of complaints about nail salons polluting their neighbors in strip malls, but I don't know of similar problems in the big malls. BTW, a green shopping center seems to be somewhat of an oxymoron, given the huge amount of auto & truck traffic that they generate. I think some locales are now requiring better bus/transit access; light-rail systems such as Portland's actually create a corridor of high-density development with easier access to shopping services. Good luck on your project, Tom -- Thomas J. Phillips AIR {) FOOD Air Pollution Research Specialist /|\ CARB/RD, Box 2815, Sacramento, CA 95812 WATER | SKIN 916.322.7145/4357 FAX _/ \_ http://www.arb.ca.gov/indoor/indoor.htm ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 14:09:40 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA18544 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA27974 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA02590; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA02758 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:01:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from smtp.gte.net (smtp.gte.net [207.115.153.29]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA02754 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TAMPA.tpatiii.com (clw233133.gte.net [207.115.233.133]) by smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with SMTP id NAA20000; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:03:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <340F7290.251@gte.net> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 22:46:40 -0400 From: Cindy/Mike Shea Organization: Promoting Sustainable Development X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-GTE (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lisa McManigal CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Green shopping malls? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Lisa, While relatively insignificant compared to Real Goods, I'd take a look at the Mall of America in Minneapolis for waste management and the Walmart Ecomarts in Lawrence, KS, and a new one in CA for energy and water efficiency, materials selection, and lighting. Please share your findings with the list. Cindy Pollock Shea Promoting Sustainable Development ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 15:50:24 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA20133 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA21875 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA04956; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA05995 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:39:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com (emout20.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.46]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05989 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:39:23 -0400 (EDT) From: TBren46501@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA28167 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970905154007_1023289459@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: CeramiChas@aol.com, greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: Re: GBlist: Kadulski comments on housing costs Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 In a message dated 8/26/97 12:59:37 AM, you wrote: << Most people that buy a home have no idea what goes into it. They only know if they like what they see, just like buying a car.>> Hi folks, Been busy. Trying to catch up with stuff now. I have frequently been frustrated by this phenomena. Two things come to mind. The first is Albert Einstein using one soap to wash his clothes, face, dishes and hair because he couldn't choose between the many soaps at the market. Voting with your dollars only works well when the buyer has craft knowledge of the product. Einstein did not have craft knowledge of surfactant chemistry. The second thing is something I heard Dave Van Ronk say to a coffee house owner when the sound equipment kept fritzing - I work decades to become a professional so I can work for amateur club owners. Two facets of the same diamond, eh? - Terry ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 16:10:49 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA20457 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA26881 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA05556; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:05:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA06592 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:01:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com (emout02.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.93]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06583 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:01:44 -0400 (EDT) From: TBren46501@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA00467 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970905160115_-633522309@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: CeramiChas@aol.com, greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: (Some) affordable house design strategies Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 In a message dated 8/28/97 8:42:07 AM, you wrote: <> Hi Charlie, I like the idea of using ceramics. I recall seeing some ceramic panels used in Japanese manufactured housing that were structural, finished on two sides and provided a combination of thermal insulation and mass that looked to me like it would be good in climates with primarily cooling loads. Know anything about them? Or similar products? Give me an update. - Terry ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 19:09:08 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA25175 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA04536 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:04:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA03070; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA01516 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:58:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from vixa.voyager.net (vixa.voyager.net [198.109.136.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA01512 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (lnngdial77.voyager.net [207.74.103.77]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.5/CICNet) with SMTP id SAA10397 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34105822.26C9@voyager.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:06:10 +0000 From: Pat Ballentine Reply-To: Ballentine@voyager.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Planet Neighborhood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 Greenbuilder Educators: Some of this list's members are organizations which conduct educational activities. Those members and others will want to check out "Planet Neighborhood" at http://www.weta.org/planet/materials.shtml This site describes a 3 part PBS series which asks for community partners and provides a chance for active participation. "Planet Neighborhood" is about the ways creative people across the nation have used innovative technologies to preserve the envrionment. Hosted by architect Wm. McDonough, dean at Univ. of Virginia, the show broadcasts on SEPTEMBER 8. Check local PBS stations for time. When you get into the information, you'll see there are FREE materials available, including videos, "The Home","The Car", and "Wetlands Technology". What a deal! Pat Ballentine ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 19:10:17 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA25185 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA04717 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA03133; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA01635 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:03:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from dns.img.net (dns.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01629 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709052303.TAA01629@solstice.crest.org> Received: from sympatico.bc.sympatico.ca ([207.34.144.106]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA219 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:10:45 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "pvisser" To: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:09:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: GBlist: concrete waterproofing Reply-to: pvisser@img.net In-reply-to: <199709040600.CAA20049@solstice.crest.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------ > > > Subject: GBlist: Retaining wall waterproofing > > Can anyone recommend a "green" waterproofing system for subterranean > retaining walls ? > >In canada there is a product called "XYPEX" that uses a crystalline sealer that forms inside the concrete. They have been around a long time, surely you can find their name in some expensive spec guide. > prayan visser, Turnaround Supply ph. 250-490-7351 refining simple home comforts to work with nature. fax and home ph. 250-497-5146, ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 5 20:11:49 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA26295 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA15700 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA04140; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA03088 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:03:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03082 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 20:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epsform.cdsnet.net (d01a8138.dip.cdsnet.net [208.26.129.56]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA00449 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 17:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 17:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709060005.RAA00449@mail.cdsnet.net> X-Sender: epsform@mail.cdsnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: DARRIN THORNTON Subject: GBlist: waterproofer Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Xypex Chemical Corporation 13731 Mayfield Place Richmond, B.C., Canada V6V 2G9 1-604-273-5265 FAX 1-604-270-0451 Thanks again, Darrin Thornton @ Polysteel Alternative Building Systems, Inc. 664 Hillandale Circle Eagle Point, Oregon 97524 Office 541-830-FORM (3676) Fax 541-830-3611 cell phone email text only 5419443626@mobile.att.net EMAIL: epsform@cdsnet.net www.cdsnet.net/Business/Polysteel That's about all the electronic leashes I want!! ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 6 02:17:02 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA01027 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA19246 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08447; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA08503 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:10:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from november.diac.com (diac.com [209.64.40.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08470 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.64.42.67] (p67.ts1.diac.com [209.64.42.67]) by november.diac.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA04059 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 06:18:04 GMT Message-Id: <199709060618.GAA04059@november.diac.com> Subject: GBlist: Re: Stucco Date: Sat, 6 Sep 97 00:14:03 -0600 x-sender: buzz@mail.diac.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Buzz Burrell To: "GreenBuilding List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 On 9/5/97 12:00 AM Joyce Coppinger wrote: >What polymers are used or can be used in stucco products used for >strawbale construction? Concern is for breathable wall which won't >crack over time because of climatic conditions (freeze and thaw cycles, >moisture, hot to cold climatic changes). What types of stucco products >are available using "natural" ingredients which would have the same or >similar properties as stucco or coatings with polymers? I've spent a bit of time researching stucco, and I still know amazingly little about this important material. I would like to hear other's replies. First some terms, all of which apply to the Southwest only, and are totally casual and unofficial. "Stucco" tends to mean whatever is applied to the exterior, and "plaster" means its on the interior. Whats called "traditional" stucco is cementitious; its usually applied in 3 coats ("scratch", "brown", and "color"). Of course, this isn't traditional at all; that would be mud. The word is used to differentiate from the acrylics, such as Dry-Vit, etc, which are essentially heavy duty paints. I have no idea what you might mean by a "polymer", unless it was mistaken for acrylic, or is one of the roof coating products more common in commercial and industrial construction. So there are three general residential classes of stucco: 1. mud; 2. cement; 3. synthetic (acrylic). These are often mixed together. For example, it is rare for someone today to use a pure mud; it is usually "stabilized" with a percentage of cement. Thus, there is a huge range of possibilities, plus all the additives to the above (cactus juice, horse hair, sheep blood, etc). A fun treatment is to use a cementitious stucco, but utilizing sand from your site for the mix; thus you get a truly harmonious color scheme. In practice however, I think the choices narrow to something much more manageable. Straw bale requires 3 coats, due to the gaps to fill, which mandates either a mud/cement or cement base. Then the color coat can be either acrylic or cementitous. Frankly, I think this is simply personal choice; they both work fine. Which brings us back to your question regarding "a breathable wall which won't crack over time". I find this "breathable" question somewhat annoying, in part because I don't know enough myself, in part because I think its a false alarm, and in part because I suspect it doesn't matter. 1. If its cementitious or mud, it will crack, and often not over very much time. Guaranteed. If a stucco doesn't crack, then its not a "natural" product. Sorry about that. The mud stucco's were usually refinished on a regular basis. The hairline cracks in the cementitous products are considered to be a cosmetic issue only. The acrylics stretch and cover the hairline cracks in the underlying basecoats. 2. Personally, I wonder how much the two differ in breathability anyway. Imagine being inside a sealed room with no openings, with one encased in 3/4" of concrete, and the other encased in the same with an 1/8" of paint on top. I think you would suffocate in either one. Maybe not though; I would love to hear the air transmission ratings for these different stucco products from a more technically proficient list subscriber. 3. At any rate, "breathability" in walls seems easily achieved by opening a window. The house is what needs to breath. (How much air diffusion is optimal for a wall is a very complicated and controversial separate issue. Its much easier to install an HRV than it is to waste valuable brain time by studying the problem). Probably the most common treatment in the SW, is to use a cementitious basecoat (2 for strawbale or adobe, 1 coat for anything else), that has fiberglass mixed in for cracking resistance (required by code if doing a single base coat). Then an acrylic is used for the color coat. Good luck on this one. Buzz Burrell "Time flies like an arrow, Boulder, CO Fruit flies like a banana". ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 6 02:17:15 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA01037 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA19314 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08502; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA08504 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:10:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from november.diac.com (diac.com [209.64.40.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08499 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.64.42.67] (p67.ts1.diac.com [209.64.42.67]) by november.diac.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA04066 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 06:18:08 GMT Message-Id: <199709060618.GAA04066@november.diac.com> Subject: GBlist: Re: Foam Date: Sat, 6 Sep 97 00:14:07 -0600 x-sender: buzz@mail.diac.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Buzz Burrell To: "GreenBuilding List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 On 9/5/97 12:00 AM Michael Molnar wrote: >I am currently building a home in mid-Michigan. One of the local insulating >contractors offers spray ureathane foam. This product is ported to be non- >toxic and having a R-8.14/in. This seems wonderful, and I am considering its >use. The only drawback I can figur' is that it will be impossible to run any >addition wiring in these wall at a later time. I would be using the foam >only on exterior(2x4) walls( Foundation to top plate) Does anybody have any >experience with this product? It seems like a wonderful product. If you like "natural", stay away from this. It's pretty wierd stuff. But it works well. I sprayed it on the outside of a compressed earth block home. The blocks were dry stacked (no motar); this foam served not only to insulate the whole house (I think its more like R6-7/inch), but also was the waterproofing material, AND it even served a structural role by sticking the blocks together. An inexpensive and blazingly fast way to build a house. Finally, the rounded corners contributed to the "adobe" look we wanted to achieve. However, I would never use it on the inside of a house, unless it was to mitigate problems or other issues. It's overkill for one; Icynene or other products would seem to be more suitable. I question its environmental impact, although I don't fully understand this issue. And lastly, once you've touched it, most people would not want it near their living space. Regarding wiring, I think that is not a consideration; it will be problem regardless of what material you use, so run whatever you can imagine now, and note there are ways to surface wire that aren't bad. Buzz Burrell Bolder Building ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 7 13:45:03 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA28198 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA21688 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA29354; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA00808 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:35:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA00804 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:35:06 -0400 (EDT) From: TBren46501@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA03758 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970907133707_-1632738940@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: G40michael@aol.com, greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Re: EEBA-L: ureathane foam Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 In a message dated 9/7/97 1:12:02 AM, you wrote: <> Hi, Terry here. I've used foamed in place polyurethane in many applications over the years. The things that most struck me about it are: 1) it's foamed with a refrigerant (which is how gets a high R-value - like R-10 per inch or so the day it's foamed. The refrigerant begins outgassing immediately according to Ficke's law of diffusion, eventually stablizing at around R-5 per inch) 2) refrigerants contribute to global atmospheric changes that are bad news for humans and a large number of other species (probably good news for a whole different set of species) 3) they contain isocyanurates, which are a) potent chemical sensitizers and b) highly toxic. The burden of these two things is born by workers who manufacture the resins or use the resins to manufacture other products and people who live near the manufacturing sites (according to the polyurethane assoication the reason most workers leave industries where urethane resins are used is because they have developed disabling sensitivites to the isocynurates) 4) although widely reported as a fire hazard because of the toxicity and smoke developed numbers, they have the same smoke developed and toxicity values as white pine - very, very bad if you breathe it. I beleive that means that it should not be exposed in interior spaces or return plenums to meet any of the national codes. I beleive this qualm is a fifth order effect with regard to fire safety. It is far more important to air seal a building to prevent the quick spread of fire and smoke. 5) don't spray it around electrical wires. Electrical wires are rated for current flow with air surrounding them so they can cool convectively. Sealing them in a high R value foam is probably ok for the loads most circuits see, but it is a step towards the edge of a cliff - overheated wiring causing fire. In combination with a couple of other steps towards the edge, like a nearby source of heat and a couple of overloaded circuits - why risk it? The insulators I used always sprayed around the wiring so it was left exposed. 6) it sticks to everything except polyethylene (damp dirty rocks, wood, wet concrete, metal). There is nothing that works so effectively at insulating and air sealing nooks, crannies and odd shapes (rim joists, cantilevered overhangs, bay and bow windows, skylight vaults, crawlspace walls). Oh, yeah, it especially sticks to skin, clothes, boots and is like a colossal darg to breathe 'cause it sticks to lung tissue too. Installers need full, fitted respiratory protection for particles and gases. There are some solvents available that will clean it up while it is still tacky (seconds), after that it wears off. 7) sprayed into stud cavities, the entire wall becomes a structural panel. Good when using exterior foam board to cut down the stud losses with let in T bracing. It also generally expanded out past the stud surface and needed to be ground or knocked off. Figure a day of clean-up. 8) it's relatively expensive, and many of the benefits can be achieved with high density blown or glue sprayed cellulose. The foam is far more impermeable to moisture migration than the cellulose. I think that's all my experience with the stuff. - Terry ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 8 09:24:12 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA11031 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA18964 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA22264; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18634 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:15:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from webserve.kvinc.com ([207.100.217.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA18629 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by webserve.kvinc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BCBC38.97C4D160@webserve.kvinc.com>; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:21:30 -0400 Message-ID: From: Susan Szalla To: "'greenbuilding@crest.org'" Subject: GBlist: commerical constr. market Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:21:29 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 I have noticed that most of the information that I find on "green building" is for the home building market. At this moment I am particularly interested in learning about sustainable building methods and materials that can be effectively utilized by contractors working in the institutional and commercial markets. If anyone has information about books, products, web sites, contacts, etc., that can help me in my pursuit please let me know. Thanks, Susan Szalla SAS@KVINC.COM ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 8 11:11:01 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA12419 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA10502 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA24756; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA21008 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:02:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mhc.ab.ca (ns.mhc.ab.ca [192.139.34.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21004 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:02:01 -0400 (EDT) From: LREBBECK@acd.mhc.ab.ca Received: from ns.mhc.ab.ca ([192.168.1.1]) by gate.mhc.ab.ca with ESMTP id <42628>; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:16:07 -0600 Received: from ACD.MHC.AB.CA by ACD.MHC.AB.CA (PMDF V5.0-3 #5923) id <01INE7LIQA1E00127Q@ACD.MHC.AB.CA> for greenbuilding@crest.org; Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:05:07 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:05:07 -0600 Subject: GBlist: cold solvent weld To: greenbuilding@crest.org Message-id: <01INE7LIQJOK00127Q@ACD.MHC.AB.CA> X-VMS-To: IN%"greenbuilding@crest.org" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Note: Mail transport via Digital Equipment of Canada Ltd. Calgary gateway. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 A new ballet floor is being installed in the building where I work - thankfully being taped down rather than glued - but the joints are to be joined together with a cold solvent weld. The technical name on the can is *tetraphydrofuranne*. It is highly inflamable - explossive - and the material with it says it is considered safe because of the small amounts used. The contractor says he will use about 1/2 to 2/3 of a quart container. I obviously won't be around when this is being applied - but will have to be in the same building w/in 48 hours. The building is quite large - single story - but all connected by air circulation system. -Any idea how long this will outgas, and to what extent? The purpose of the weld is to provide a supple joint that will expand and contract with heat - so it is not a hard drying agent. - Any idea what alternatives might be available that would be less toxic, but would still provide the necessary join. Any common compounds to carpet glue? I have not been able to go back into our church that re-carpeted 2 years ago - and I suspect the glue. I appreciate any help you can give. Thanks Lyle Rebbeck LRebbeck@acd.mhc.ab.ca ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 8 18:46:56 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA20588 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA26798 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA06055; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04062 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:38:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04058 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:38:27 -0400 (EDT) From: gaudi@juno.com Received: (from gaudi@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SjQ28992; Mon, 08 Sep 1997 18:39:02 EDT To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: GBlist General Conditions Spec Language Message-ID: <19970908.153924.8518.5.gaudi@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-30 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 18:39:02 EDT Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 Kurt, regarding your question on spec language. The general conditions and specifications are included in the project manual which is a subset of the bidding documents. A section on waste management comes under Division 1, section 01500; Construction Facilities and Temporary controls, Periodic Cleaning. Include your construction waste management plan there and reference it to section 01700 Contract Closeout and section 00700 General Requirements. This may require you to write a standard spec that includes: General 1.01 Requirements Included 1.02 Related Requirements 1.03 Waste Management Goals 1.04 Waste Management Plan 1.05 Recycling 1.06 Reuse 1.07 Materials Sorting 1.08 Recycling Economics Worksheet [ if applicable] 1.09 List of Recycling centers and haulers Products not applicable Execution not applicable Daniel J. Goudy Architect enviro dzine ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 8 23:16:37 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA25529 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA28040 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA12565; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA10531 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:04:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA10526 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA13520; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:04:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3414BBFD.6A2B481C@cow-net.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 20:01:17 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Buzz Burrell CC: GreenBuilding List Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: Stucco X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709060618.GAA04059@november.diac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 A quick note on breathability and latex/acrylic mediums. I came upon a reference for a european iaq research project that focused on mold growth between layers of latex paint (bathroom area focus) and between drywall and latex. Anyone familiar with this study or similar ones. John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. Buzz Burrell wrote: > > On 9/5/97 12:00 AM Joyce Coppinger wrote: > > >What polymers are used or can be used in stucco products used for > >strawbale construction? Concern is for breathable wall which won't > >crack over time because of climatic conditions (freeze and thaw > cycles, > >moisture, hot to cold climatic changes). What types of stucco > products > >are available using "natural" ingredients which would have the same > or > >similar properties as stucco or coatings with polymers? > > I've spent a bit of time researching stucco, and I still know > amazingly > little about this important material. I would like to hear other's > replies. > > First some terms, all of which apply to the Southwest only, and are > totally casual and unofficial. "Stucco" tends to mean whatever is > applied to the exterior, and "plaster" means its on the interior. > Whats > called "traditional" stucco is cementitious; its usually applied in > 3 > coats ("scratch", "brown", and "color"). Of course, this isn't > traditional at all; that would be mud. The word is used to > differentiate from the acrylics, such as Dry-Vit, etc, which are > essentially heavy duty paints. I have no idea what you might mean by > a > "polymer", unless it was mistaken for acrylic, or is one of the roof > coating products more common in commercial and industrial > construction. > So there are three general residential classes of stucco: 1. mud; 2. > cement; 3. synthetic (acrylic). > > These are often mixed together. For example, it is rare for someone > today to use a pure mud; it is usually "stabilized" with a percentage > of > cement. Thus, there is a huge range of possibilities, plus all the > additives to the above (cactus juice, horse hair, sheep blood, etc). > A > fun treatment is to use a cementitious stucco, but utilizing sand from > your site for the mix; thus you get a truly harmonious color scheme. > > In practice however, I think the choices narrow to something much more > manageable. Straw bale requires 3 coats, due to the gaps to fill, > which > mandates either a mud/cement or cement base. Then the color coat can > be > either acrylic or cementitous. Frankly, I think this is simply > personal > choice; they both work fine. > > Which brings us back to your question regarding "a breathable wall > which > won't > crack over time". > > I find this "breathable" question somewhat annoying, in part because I > don't know enough myself, in part because I think its a false alarm, > and > in part because I suspect it doesn't matter. > > 1. If its cementitious or mud, it will crack, and often not over very > much time. Guaranteed. If a stucco doesn't crack, then its not a > "natural" product. Sorry about that. The mud stucco's were usually > refinished on a regular basis. The hairline cracks in the cementitous > products are considered to be a cosmetic issue only. The acrylics > stretch and cover the hairline cracks in the underlying basecoats. > > 2. Personally, I wonder how much the two differ in breathability > anyway. > Imagine being inside a sealed room with no openings, with one encased > in > 3/4" of concrete, and the other encased in the same with an 1/8" of > paint > on top. I think you would suffocate in either one. Maybe not though; > I > would love to hear the air transmission ratings for these different > stucco products from a more technically proficient list subscriber. > > 3. At any rate, "breathability" in walls seems easily achieved by > opening > a window. > The house is what needs to breath. (How much air diffusion is optimal > for a wall is a very complicated and controversial separate issue. > Its > much easier to install an HRV than it is to waste valuable brain time > by > studying the problem). > > Probably the most common treatment in the SW, is to use a cementitious > basecoat (2 for strawbale or adobe, 1 coat for anything else), that > has > fiberglass mixed in for cracking resistance (required by code if doing > a > single base coat). Then an acrylic is used for the color coat. > > Good luck on this one. > > Buzz Burrell "Time flies like an arrow, > Boulder, CO Fruit flies like a banana". > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 9 08:47:24 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA01510 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA25123 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA21019; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA18241 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:39:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.43]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18237 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:39:26 -0400 (EDT) From: TBren46501@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id IAA00242; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970909084128_1853247782@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: terrain@cow-net.com, greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: Stucco Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 In a message dated 9/8/97 11:38:18 PM, you wrote: <> Hi, I got mountains of studies on fungal growth in my files, but not this one. I'd sure be interested in the study you recall. I'm not familiar with that study, but I have a fair amount of direct experience growing and dealing with mold and a fair amount of training in indoor biology. Mold, like any living creature is looking for food, water, shelter and a way to make babies (mold is a bit more broad minded about reproductive methods than mammals). For food it needs carbon, but has evolved to get rid of cellulose and lignin - old plant stuff. For water it needs a material to grow on that contains 65% or more the amount of water it takes to saturate the material. Latex paint an d the paper covering on wallboard are good sources of carbon. I find viable mold spores everywhere I sample, unless the surface has been sanitized. All it takes for fungal growth in latex paint or wallboard covering is enough water to get to the needed water activity in the material. So bathroom walls are good locations. In cooling mode, particularly if the house is running negative, the inner paper layer sheetrock beneath the paint is a good location for moisture accumulation by condensation, doubly so if there is vinyl wallpaper. In heating mode the same dynamic makes a good habitat for fungi in the outer stucco layer of the exterior walls, especially if the house is running positive. These problems are more likely in areas where there is a lot of moisture in the outdoor air, like the coastal states, or in sampwy microclimates. The biggest, most difficult to deal with fungal problems I've encoutered always seem to be in places with names like - Beaver River, Nine-Mile Swamp, and Buzzards Bay. In these places the mold grows on everything inside and out. In places where they get 7 inches of rain a year, it takes a special coincidence of events to make a habitat for mold. Jeeze, I kinda rambled on being professorial. Well, take what you like and leave the rest. Warm regards, Terry ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 9 09:58:35 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA02422 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA09534 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23165; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA19953 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:44:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from freenet.calgary.ab.ca (srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca [198.161.243.11]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19948; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca(198.161.243.11) by srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca via smap (V1.3) id ZZ37034; Tue Sep 9 07:44:19 1997 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:44:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Jorg Ostrowski To: "Shannon C. Dealy" Cc: Gregg Pulley , owly@mcn.net, strawbale@crest.org, greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Re: heat pumps In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 Which manufacturer makes the most efficient ground/water coupled HP that can be operated from photovoltaics.I expect a COP of at least 4.5 (heating) for a liquid-to-liquid system, but am really interested in small units (design heat loss = 30,000 Btu/hr @ -24 dF) with COP of 12 (like Dennis Lee's HP) and environmentally-sound phase change mediums. _________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm e-mail: , _____________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 9 11:06:44 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA03925 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA25283 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26103; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA21817 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:58:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA21813 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA18009; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:58:33 -0700 Message-ID: <34156364.A2A1BF51@cow-net.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 07:55:32 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Buzz Burrell CC: GreenBuilding List Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: HRV X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709060618.GAA04059@november.diac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 Buzz Burrell wrote: > > The house is what needs to breath. (How much air diffusion is optimal > for a wall is a very complicated and controversial separate issue. > Its > much easier to install an HRV than it is to waste valuable brain time > by > studying the problem). > I have to disagree in part or at least rephrase - I think an HRV is an ad hoc or bumper solution (and one that I think will breed a whole host of problems in the future). Fungal and bacterial growth in ductwork is a leading cause of SBS and difficult to control as ductwork can provide a good breeding ground for fungal activity. Fungal spores from 1 micron in size enter from supply air. A HEPA filter if tightly fitted can prevent entry but if not maintained can actually exacerbate the problem. Microbial activity inside the ductwork is difficult to control as the conditions that cause the activity are unseen and can be unpredictable. HRV may be a necessary solution at this point but I think brain time should be always reserved for a more fundamental understanding of basic materials. Cementious and masonry materials have an interesting ability to recover heat, retain moisture and transfer air. Moisture retained in and traveling through porous rock has been shown at a biological level an ability to host activity that can remove toxins from the air that are not normally water soluble. In other words there is a potential for indoor air purification as a function of materials used (another 'living machine' concept.) I am looking for some specifications for duct preparation, installation and maintenance schedules that are designed to minimize potential for contamination. The installation is for air supply, exhaust and heat recovery as a retrofit in an old house (4500sq.ft) for a MCS person. I originally wanted to manage supply and exhaust passively and manage heat recovery with an air to water exchange (heating is hydronic) which I still think is feasible but am having trouble with the general design, anyone have any suggestions or worked on something similar. Thanks, John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 9 11:11:03 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA03986 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA26350 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26246; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA21968 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:03:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from m3.boston.juno.com (m3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.198]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21964 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from goldeneagle1@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id L_Q00242; Tue, 09 Sep 1997 11:05:22 EDT To: greenbuilding@crest.org Cc: whawthorne@enermodal.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:43:51 -0600 Subject: GBlist: Re: low energy houses Message-ID: <19970909.084410.10478.2.goldeneagle1@juno.com> References: <970909084128_1853247782@emout17.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5 From: goldeneagle1@juno.com (Wendy L McDonald) Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 Question: Do you have some info on prototype low energy residences that have been built in the US? thanks Samantha ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 9 11:18:35 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA04776 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA28252 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26548; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA22169 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:09:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pike.sover.net (pike.sover.net [204.71.16.17]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA22165 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.71.18.128] (pm0a28.bratt.sover.net [204.71.18.128]) by pike.sover.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA06089; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:11:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709091511.LAA06089@pike.sover.net> Subject: Re: GBlist: commerical constr. market Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 11:13:51 -0400 x-sender: ebn@sover.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Nadav Malin To: "Susan Szalla" , "'greenbuilding@crest.org'" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 >I have noticed that most of the information that I find on "green >building" is for the home building market. At this moment I am >particularly interested in learning about sustainable building methods >and materials that can be effectively utilized by contractors working >in the institutional and commercial markets. If anyone has >information about books, products, web sites, contacts, etc., > that can help me in my pursuit please let me know. > >Thanks, >Susan Szalla >SAS@KVINC.COM > The content of Environmental Building News is pretty evenly split between topics of interest to commercial and residential designers and builders--at least that's been our intent--we'd love to hear how others find it! Also, we have just released our new E Build Library CD-ROM containing all back issues of the newsletter in text-searchable format, which should contain much of what you're looking for. In terms of other resources, there are many. All subscribers get a free copy of our annotated bibliography of green building information resources, which will next be update for December 1997 publication. Yours, Nadav EEEEE BBBB NN N ENVIRONMENTAL BUILDING NEWS RR 1, Box 161 E B B N N N The Newsletter Brattleboro, VT 05301 EEE BBBB N N N on Environmentally tel. 802/257-7300 E B B N NN Responsible Design fax 802/257-7304 EEEEE BBBB N N and Construction http://www.ebuild.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 9 11:22:01 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA04838 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA29091 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26736; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA22343 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:14:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pike.sover.net (pike.sover.net [204.71.16.17]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA22339 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.71.18.128] (pm0a28.bratt.sover.net [204.71.18.128]) by pike.sover.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07204; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709091516.LAA07204@pike.sover.net> Subject: Re: GBlist: Planet Neighborhood Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 11:18:39 -0400 x-sender: ebn@sover.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Nadav Malin To: , "Greenbuilding List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 >Greenbuilder Educators: >Some of this list's members are organizations which conduct educational >activities. Those members and others will want to check out "Planet >Neighborhood" at >http://www.weta.org/planet/materials.shtml > >This site describes a 3 part PBS series which asks for community >partners and provides a chance for active participation. >"Planet Neighborhood" is about the ways creative people across the >nation have used innovative technologies to preserve the envrionment. >Hosted by architect Wm. McDonough, dean at Univ. of Virginia, the show >broadcasts on SEPTEMBER 8. Check local PBS stations for time. > >When you get into the information, you'll see there are FREE materials >available, including videos, "The Home","The Car", and "Wetlands >Technology". > >What a deal! >Pat Ballentine > I thought I'd mention that several of the sponsors of this list have been hard at work for the last few months on the Greenhome CD-ROM that is part of this list of resources. CREST produced the CD for WETA, and Alex Wilson wrote most of the content. It consists of a virtual walk-through of a house that is modelled on one that John Abrams and his South Mountain Company built recently on Marthas Vineyard. We have yet to see the final version, but it should be a lot of fun. Nadav EEEEE BBBB NN N ENVIRONMENTAL BUILDING NEWS RR 1, Box 161 E B B N N N The Newsletter Brattleboro, VT 05301 EEE BBBB N N N on Environmentally tel. 802/257-7300 E B B N NN Responsible Design fax 802/257-7304 EEEEE BBBB N N and Construction http://www.ebuild.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 9 16:02:19 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA11754 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:02:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA08461 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05024; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA01920 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:52:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from iris.pti.nw.dc.us (iris.pti.nw.dc.us [199.75.60.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01916 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from station6.pti.nw.dc.us ([199.75.60.86]) by iris.pti.nw.dc.us (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA19869; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:56:33 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970909195508.00a16e64@pti.nw.dc.us> X-Sender: wood-lewis@pti.nw.dc.us X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 15:55:08 -0400 To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: "Michael Wood-Lewis" Subject: GBlist: Sustainable Building NW Conference Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 Attn: Greenbuilders: Sustainable Building Northwest Conference and Trade Show offers a great opportunity to learn how to move greenbuilding theory into practice and to network with professionals in the field. The conference will be held October 27-29, 1997, in Seattle. For more info: http://pti.nw.dc.us/sus.htm O'Brien & Company P.O. Box 10705 Bainbridge Island, WA 98110 (206) 842-8995 (206) 842-8717 fax obrien@halcyon.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 9 17:10:14 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA12637 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA28044 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA06592; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA04071 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:02:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA04066 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA06450; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:01:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3415B89C.A3E741C2@cow-net.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 13:59:08 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TBren46501@aol.com CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: Stucco X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970909084128_1853247782@emout17.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 Hi Terry, I came upon the reference in a search at Elselvier about a year ago - the thing that caught my attention was that the bacterial and fungal growth that was being investigated was between layers of latex paint. I'll see if I can find the publication reference again, or maybe somebody else might know of the study. Take care John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. TBren46501@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/8/97 11:38:18 PM, you wrote: > > < a > reference for a european iaq research project that focused on mold > growth between layers of latex paint (bathroom area focus) and between > drywall and latex. Anyone familiar with this study or similar ones.>> > > Hi, > > I got mountains of studies on fungal growth in my files, but not this > one. > I'd sure be interested in the study you recall. I'm not familiar > with that > study, but I have a fair amount of direct experience growing and > dealing with > mold and a fair amount of training in indoor biology. Mold, like any > living > creature is looking for food, water, shelter and a way to make babies > (mold > is a bit more broad minded about reproductive methods than mammals). > For > food it needs carbon, but has evolved to get rid of cellulose and > lignin - > old plant stuff. For water it needs a material to grow on that > contains 65% > or more the amount of water it takes to saturate the material. Latex > paint an > d the paper covering on wallboard are good sources of carbon. I find > viable > mold spores everywhere I sample, unless the surface has been > sanitized. All > it takes for fungal growth in latex paint or wallboard covering is > enough > water to get to the needed water activity in the material. So > bathroom walls > are good locations. In cooling mode, particularly if the house is > running > negative, the inner paper layer sheetrock beneath the paint is a good > location for moisture accumulation by condensation, doubly so if there > is > vinyl wallpaper. In heating mode the same dynamic makes a good > habitat for > fungi in the outer stucco layer of the exterior walls, especially if > the > house is running positive. These problems are more likely in areas > where > there is a lot of moisture in the outdoor air, like the coastal > states, or in > sampwy microclimates. The biggest, most difficult to deal with fungal > problems I've encoutered always seem to be in places with names like - > Beaver > River, Nine-Mile Swamp, and Buzzards Bay. In these places the mold > grows on > everything inside and out. In places where they get 7 inches of rain > a year, > it takes a special coincidence of events to make a habitat for mold. > > Jeeze, I kinda rambled on being professorial. Well, take what you > like and > leave the rest. > > Warm regards, > Terry ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 9 20:59:31 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA17410 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA23075 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA11671; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA10774 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:50:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.38]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA10770 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:50:12 -0400 (EDT) From: RCMathis1@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA27876; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970909205040_1661015128@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: mcshea1@gte.net, greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Green shopping malls? Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 Cindy, Thanks for the reminder when you wrote about: << the Walmart Ecomarts in Lawrence, KS, and a new one in CA for energy and water efficiency, materials selection, and lighting. >> Are you (or others on the list) aware of any analysis on sales impact of the Walmart daylighting experiment? {For the list Walmart built some prototye daylighting "towers" instead of the old skylight scheme with, I think, the goals of looking at how it impacted both energy consumption and product sales in areas of natural light.} Looking for data.... Chris Mathis MCSquared ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 10 09:52:02 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA25307 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA22676 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23754; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA23312 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:44:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from x6.boston.juno.com ([207.205.100.26]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23308 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:44:07 -0400 (EDT) From: sbtauto@juno.com Received: (from sbtauto@juno.com) by x6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id J}V04280; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:44:42 EDT To: RCMathis1@aol.com Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:43:49 -0500 Subject: Re: GBlist: Green shopping malls? Message-ID: <19970910.085041.3630.1.sbtauto@juno.com> References: <970909205040_1661015128@emout12.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,7-38 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 No hard data to offer but I know from experience that most Wal Mart stores have automated their lighting and other electrical systems. Master control is in Little Rock, Ark. We often use Wal Mart's success story in automation as an example when introducing this technology to the less (shall we say) educated. There are a lot of people who continue to believe that green building only means sod roofs and grass walls. We think it can be that and more. On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:52:16 -0400 (EDT) RCMathis1@aol.com writes: >Cindy, > >Thanks for the reminder when you wrote about: ><< the Walmart Ecomarts in Lawrence, KS, and a new one in CA for >energy and > water efficiency, materials selection, and lighting. >> > > >Are you (or others on the list) aware of any analysis on sales impact >of the >Walmart daylighting experiment? {For the list Walmart built some >prototye >daylighting "towers" instead of the old skylight scheme with, I think, >the >goals of looking at how it impacted both energy consumption and >product sales >in areas of natural light.} > >Looking for data.... > >Chris Mathis >MCSquared >______________________________________________________________________ >This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST >Environmental Building News and Oikos >For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. >______________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 10 10:46:50 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA26751 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:46:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA06473 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24995; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24796 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:39:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from smtp.gte.net (smtp.gte.net [207.115.153.29]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24790 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TAMPA.tpatiii.com (clw231132.gte.net [207.115.231.132]) by smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with SMTP id JAA26756; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:41:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3416B17F.755A@gte.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:41:03 -0400 From: Cindy/Mike Shea Organization: Promoting Sustainable Development X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-GTE (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RCMathis1@aol.com CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Green shopping malls? References: <970909205040_1661015128@emout12.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 Chris, I don't have any follow up info on Walmart sales as a result of daylighting. I suggest you try Jan Mauldin, Director, Sales Promotions. 501-273-8228 V or 501-273-1931 F. Good luck, Cindy Promoting Sustainable Development ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 10 10:47:02 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA26800 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA06527 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25084; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24817 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:39:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from dns.img.net (dns.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24812 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709101439.KAA24812@solstice.crest.org> Received: from sympatico.bc.sympatico.ca ([207.34.144.124]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA43 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:47:32 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "pvisser" To: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:46:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: GBlist: Re: greenbuilding-digest V1 #385 Reply-to: pvisser@img.net In-reply-to: <199709090600.CAA14024@solstice.crest.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 I follow the strawbale list and there has been a most interesting exchange on thermal flywheel, mass and natural comfort systems, including an appearance from nick pine himself, the author of many creative solutions for low energy low cost climate control strategies, and i posted some of these from my files. I am sure the readers of this list would enjoy a sampling of this. BTW where is the sept. 10 issue? prayan visser, Turnaround Supply ph. 250-490-7351 refining simple home comforts to work with nature. fax and home ph. 250-497-5146, ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 10 12:17:21 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA29874 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA28668 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA27173; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA27459 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:06:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from hevanet.com (hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA27455 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.103] (pa-ppp18.hevanet.com [204.119.60.103]) by hevanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05533 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:08:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: obrien@pop.hevanet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709101439.KAA24812@solstice.crest.org> References: <199709090600.CAA14024@solstice.crest.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:07:45 -0700 To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: "Michael O'Brien" Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: greenbuilding-digest V1 #385 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 ****CURMUDGEON ALERT 9/10/97 9:06 AM PST**** ****CRANKY MESSAGE FOLLOWS**** ****YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED**** About Nick Pine and his ideas, I would just like to say, they are long on creativity but I would check those fussy little details, like, how they fit with known laws of physics. Mike >I follow the strawbale list and there has been a most interesting >exchange on thermal flywheel, mass and natural comfort systems, >including an appearance from nick pine himself, the author of many >creative solutions for low energy low cost climate control >strategies, and i posted some of these from my files. >I am sure the readers of this list would enjoy a sampling of this. >BTW where is the sept. 10 issue? > >prayan visser, Turnaround Supply ph. 250-490-7351 >refining simple home comforts to work with nature. >fax and home ph. 250-497-5146, >______________________________________________________________________ >This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST >Environmental Building News and Oikos >For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. >______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 10 21:16:23 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA09063 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA11718 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA08752; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA14010 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:07:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from rmc1.crocker.com (rmc1.crocker.com [204.97.12.50]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA14001 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.246.4.7] (iplink007.crocker.com [205.246.4.7]) by rmc1.crocker.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA14952 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:10:10 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:15:44 -0500 To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: brucecol@crocker.com (Bruce Coldham) Subject: GBlist: Green shopping malls? Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 Lisa >Is anybody aware of any shopping malls (regional, community and/or strip) >that have addressed green concerns? I'm looking for case studies where >energy or water efficiency, lighting, materials, smart land use plans or >waste management and other operational issues have been addressed, even on >a superficial level. Try Randy Croxton's office in New York City He and I were interviewed (separately) by a Boston-based shopping center developer who had good positive aspirations for turning their development product in this ("green") direction. I initially challenged their intention saying that I thought that shopping centers were (in concept) as "brown" as it comes. They countered.. we had a good, frank discussion. Croxton got the job though, and is now, presumably well advanced in design. Bruce Coldham ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 10 23:59:59 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA11407 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA21359 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA11272; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA17350 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:50:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.2.92]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA17346 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.174.181.187] (dd49-187.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.181.187]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA06776 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:52:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:52:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199709110352.UAA06776@m5.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: bhoward2@sprynet.com (Bion Howard) Subject: GBlist: Air-Core Passive / Hybrid Heat Storage Info To: greenbuilding@crest.org X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.10.06.22 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 Air-Core Passive / Hybrid Heat Storage Info In response to the posting by Ms. Howard (no relation) I have attached a listing of my publications in this area. We still periodically perform computer studies for designers intending to use concrete block underfloor or in-wall heat storage systems. Since 1984, I have conducted about twenty-five such design reviews, including homes, restaurants, and even a funeral home. The system is low in cost and works well if properly sized fans are installed. One thing I would like to try is sizing a PV array / DC motor pair to optimize underfloor heat storage and seasonal ventilation in a sunspace. This would make sense for an off-grid building. Another idea would be to create a hybrid destratification system teamed with low temperature hydronic radiant floor heating. With proper control logic the HRF would only need aux heat some of the time, which could be supplied from a water heater or tankless unit. Might be pretty efficient approach in a micro-load home. Finally, most of the systems I worked on used "cull" blocks that were locally produced and would not otherwise have been good enough for wall construction (recycled block would work too). Have also seen metal forms used for this purpose, but they are fragile to work with and have potentially higher embodied energy. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Air Core System / Building Related Publications // Bion Howard ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "The Air Core System for Thermal Storage." (peer-reviewed) The Passive Solar Journal. ASES/SERI Vol. 3 No. 3. 1986. ASES, Boulder Co. "Air Core Systems for Passive and Hybrid Energy - Conserving Buildings." ASHRAE Transactions, V. 92. Pt. 2. 1986. (peer-reviewed) Atlanta, GA. "Residential Design Examples -- Hollow Core Masonry Under Floor and In-wall Remote Heat Storage." 1986 - 11th National Passive Solar Conference. ASES, Boulder Co. NCMA "TEK-Note – The Air Core System" National Concrete Masonry Association, Herndon, VA (in. Manual of Facts on Concrete Masonry, NCMA.) "Achieving a Balanced Approach." 10th Passive Solar Conference. 1985 ASES, Boulder Co. (Co author: John Spears, President -- Sustainable Design Group) "Measured Performance of a (Solar) Home Using Concrete Masonry." 8th National Passive Solar Conference. 1983. ASES, Boulder Co. "Determination of Passive Solar Collector Energy Balances Using Two Different Methods." (with W.F. Roberts, AIA) 7th National Passive Solar Conference. 1982. ASES, Boulder Co. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- These publications also contain references to other literature on embedded structural heat storage options. PS: if this dialogue is too "energy related" we could move it to the EEBA "ee-building@crest.org" list, sister to the venerable greenbuilding list. Comments and discussion is most welcome. --------------- Contact Information------------------ Mr. Bion D. Howard, Principal Building Environmental Science & Technology P. O. Box 1007, Upper Marlboro, Maryland 20773 USA bdhoward@ix.netcom.com <--> http://www.nrg-builder.com Voice# 410-867-8000 fax# 301-889-0889 ------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 11 00:17:39 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA11552 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA25326 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA11692; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA17694 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:10:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from dns.img.net (dns.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA17690; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709110410.AAA17690@solstice.crest.org> Received: from sympatico.bc.sympatico.ca ([207.34.144.224]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA247; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:18:05 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "pvisser" To: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:16:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: GBlist: Re: no mail today Reply-to: pvisser@img.net CC: stawbale@crest.org In-reply-to: <199709090600.CAA14024@solstice.crest.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 no news today, how come? i got reactions back from other people, other mail, but nothing from crest, no duplicate postings, no SB either.... prayan visser, Turnaround Supply ph. 250-490-7351 refining simple home comforts to work with nature. fax and home ph. 250-497-5146, ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 11 20:23:01 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA01201 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA26834 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08299; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA12766 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:14:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net (italy-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.18]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12761 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.37.245.166] (1Cust38.max5.portland2.or.ms.uu.net [153.37.245.166]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08837 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709120016.RAA08837@italy.it.earthlink.net> Subject: GBlist: Remember correct address for GB List Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 17:15:20 -0000 x-sender: oikos@earthlink.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Bruce Sullivan To: "Green Building" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 This is a quick "list-keeping" note. In the last couple of weeks there have been several messages--intended for the list--that were addressed to "owner-greenbuilding@crest.org" Using this address sends messages to the list _moderators_ (Nadav Malin, Zach Nobel and Bruce Sullivan). If you post a message, but don't see it come back into your own mailbox, the message may have been addressed improperly. The proper address is, of course, "greenbuilding@crest.org" Please check the address before sending and before _replying_ to a message. We try to inform individuals each time this occurs, but there has been an increase in this occurence. I thought a general warning was in order. Take Care, Bruce S ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Sullivan Tel: 541-484-9353 Iris Communications, Inc. Fax: 541-484-1645 Web: http://www.oikos.com/ E-mail: iris@oikos.com ---------- 1,800 green building product listings online ----------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 11 20:23:01 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA01201 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA26834 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08299; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA12766 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:14:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net (italy-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.18]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12761 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.37.245.166] (1Cust38.max5.portland2.or.ms.uu.net [153.37.245.166]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08837 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709120016.RAA08837@italy.it.earthlink.net> Subject: GBlist: Remember correct address for GB List Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 17:15:20 -0000 x-sender: oikos@earthlink.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Bruce Sullivan To: "Green Building" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 This is a quick "list-keeping" note. In the last couple of weeks there have been several messages--intended for the list--that were addressed to "owner-greenbuilding@crest.org" Using this address sends messages to the list _moderators_ (Nadav Malin, Zach Nobel and Bruce Sullivan). If you post a message, but don't see it come back into your own mailbox, the message may have been addressed improperly. The proper address is, of course, "greenbuilding@crest.org" Please check the address before sending and before _replying_ to a message. We try to inform individuals each time this occurs, but there has been an increase in this occurence. I thought a general warning was in order. Take Care, Bruce S ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Sullivan Tel: 541-484-9353 Iris Communications, Inc. Fax: 541-484-1645 Web: http://www.oikos.com/ E-mail: iris@oikos.com ---------- 1,800 green building product listings online ----------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 11 00:17:39 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA11552 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA25326 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA11692; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA17694 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:10:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from dns.img.net (dns.img.net [207.34.144.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA17690; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709110410.AAA17690@solstice.crest.org> Received: from sympatico.bc.sympatico.ca ([207.34.144.224]) by dns.img.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA247; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:18:05 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "pvisser" To: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:16:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: GBlist: Re: no mail today Reply-to: pvisser@img.net CC: stawbale@crest.org In-reply-to: <199709090600.CAA14024@solstice.crest.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 no news today, how come? i got reactions back from other people, other mail, but nothing from crest, no duplicate postings, no SB either.... prayan visser, Turnaround Supply ph. 250-490-7351 refining simple home comforts to work with nature. fax and home ph. 250-497-5146, ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 11 20:23:01 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA01201 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA26834 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08299; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA12766 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:14:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net (italy-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.18]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12761 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.37.245.166] (1Cust38.max5.portland2.or.ms.uu.net [153.37.245.166]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08837 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709120016.RAA08837@italy.it.earthlink.net> Subject: GBlist: Remember correct address for GB List Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 17:15:20 -0000 x-sender: oikos@earthlink.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Bruce Sullivan To: "Green Building" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 This is a quick "list-keeping" note. In the last couple of weeks there have been several messages--intended for the list--that were addressed to "owner-greenbuilding@crest.org" Using this address sends messages to the list _moderators_ (Nadav Malin, Zach Nobel and Bruce Sullivan). If you post a message, but don't see it come back into your own mailbox, the message may have been addressed improperly. The proper address is, of course, "greenbuilding@crest.org" Please check the address before sending and before _replying_ to a message. We try to inform individuals each time this occurs, but there has been an increase in this occurence. I thought a general warning was in order. Take Care, Bruce S ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Sullivan Tel: 541-484-9353 Iris Communications, Inc. Fax: 541-484-1645 Web: http://www.oikos.com/ E-mail: iris@oikos.com ---------- 1,800 green building product listings online ----------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 12 03:26:17 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id DAA06096 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id DAA11208 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:21:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA26749; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA27972 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:17:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from r1.boston.juno.com (r1.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.241]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA27967 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m3.boston.juno.com (m3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.198]) by r1.boston.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.6.Beta0/2.0.kim) with ESMTP id XAAAA08112 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from goldeneagle1@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XNK29164; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:31:46 EDT To: RCMathis1@aol.com Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:25:16 -0600 Subject: Re: GBlist: Walmart Message-ID: <19970911.212914.6678.2.goldeneagle1@juno.com> References: <970909205040_1661015128@emout12.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-41 From: goldeneagle1@juno.com (Wendy L McDonald) Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 I dont know many of the specifics about the results- however i lived in Lawrence for 5 years, and shopped there all the time- also know what areas of the project were "jokes of the town". May be able to find a phone number and contact name (for the environmental education person there) if there is an interest in talking with the store directly. I almost took a job as an intern as they were starting to build the one in CA, didnt- but also talked with the people in AK that knew more about it- could also get their info if wanted. Samantha On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:52:16 -0400 (EDT) RCMathis1@aol.com writes: >Cindy, > >Thanks for the reminder when you wrote about: ><< the Walmart Ecomarts in Lawrence, KS, and a new one in CA for >energy and > water efficiency, materials selection, and lighting. >> > > >Are you (or others on the list) aware of any analysis on sales impact >of the >Walmart daylighting experiment? {For the list Walmart built some >prototye >daylighting "towers" instead of the old skylight scheme with, I think, >the >goals of looking at how it impacted both energy consumption and >product sales >in areas of natural light.} > >Looking for data.... > >Chris Mathis >MCSquared >______________________________________________________________________ >This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST >Environmental Building News and Oikos >For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. >______________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 13 10:38:59 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA01658 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA13251 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09293; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA08415 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:25:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from cow.chelmsford.com (cow.chelmsford.com [199.103.186.3]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08407; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (cos-port32.chelmsford.com [199.103.186.132]) by cow.chelmsford.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA12662; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <341ABC59.57FB@chelmsford.com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:16:25 -0700 From: Jim Rogers Reply-To: jrogers@chelmsford.com Organization: James K. Rogers, PE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jorg Ostrowski CC: "Shannon C. Dealy" , Gregg Pulley , owly@mcn.net, strawbale@crest.org, greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: heat pumps References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 The efficiency depends on where it will be operated and whether its peak will be for heating or cooling. For geothermal heat pump applications in northern climates, the units from ECONAR in Anoka MN would be ideal. They are designed specifically for northern climates where heating loads predominate. For southern climates, where the opposite is true, units from either ClimateMaster or WaterFurnace may be better. If you need contacts at these companies let me know. Good luck. - Jim Rogers - ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 15 10:01:18 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA05552 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA20957 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01660; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA23892 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:47:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pike.sover.net (pike.sover.net [204.71.16.17]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23888 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.71.18.146] (pm1a16.bratt.sover.net [204.71.18.146]) by pike.sover.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25416 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:49:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: ebn@sover.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:51:50 -0400 To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: Nadav Malin Subject: GBlist: Bamboo flooring info/experiences? Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 For an upcoming article, I'm seeking any first-hand information or experiences using strip flooring made from bamboo. I'm aware of two companies selling it in the U.S.: Smith & Fong in San Francisco Bamboo Hardwoods in Seattle I also used to have contact with a Canadian company, Floorworks, but haven't seen anything from them for a long time. Any additional leads or comments will be most appreciated. Thanks, Nadav Malin Environmental Building News ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 15 10:30:01 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA06083 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA28180 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02222; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24669 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:19:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from smtp.gte.net (smtp.gte.net [207.115.153.29]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24665 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TAMPA.tpatiii.com (clw002045.gte.net [207.175.2.45]) by smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with SMTP id JAA01027 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:21:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <341D4465.29A3@gte.net> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:21:25 -0400 From: Cindy/Mike Shea Organization: Promoting Sustainable Development X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-GTE (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: [Fwd: NEW SUBCRIBER] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B6235487760" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B6235487760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the members of this list serve are more likely to have the answers Oliver seeks. Cindy Pollock Shea Promoting Sustainable Development --------------B6235487760 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay.gte.net ([207.115.153.25]) by sm2.gte.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release "2" ID# 0-32582L10S150000) with ESMTP id AAA18979 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:22:21 -0500 Received: from naps.uwindsor.ca (dns.uwindsor.ca [137.207.232.1]) by relay.gte.net with SMTP id HAA23441 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:23:09 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: naps: Host pdomain.campus.uwindsor.ca claimed to be pdomain.uwindsor.ca Received: from pdomain.uwindsor.ca by pdomain.uwindsor.ca via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.TT) id HAA06088; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:35:17 -0400 Received: from PDOMAIN.UWINDSOR.CA by PDOMAIN.UWINDSOR.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 387794 for ECDM@PDOMAIN.UWINDSOR.CA; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:33:55 -0400 Received: from naps.uwindsor.ca by pdomain.uwindsor.ca via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.TT) for id HAA05962; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:33:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: naps: Host rajah-old.pworld.net.ph claimed to be rajah.pworld.net.ph Received: from oliver (ip115.pworld.net.ph [203.176.24.115]) by rajah.pworld.net.ph (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA06404 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:42:00 +0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Approved-By: Oliver Rempillo Message-ID: <341D1F9B.B90E91AB@cryogen.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:44:27 +0800 Reply-To: Oliver Rempillo Sender: Environmentally Conscious Design & Mfg List From: Oliver Rempillo Subject: NEW SUBCRIBER To: Multiple recipients of list ECDM X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 I'm Oliver Rempillo a student and currently undertaking a design project. The project is to make a environmentally freindly computer workstation that is designed for schools (computer classrooms) and not for individual use. As you can see one of the major concern of this project is not only ergonomics but also how to make it environmetally friendly. It is the reason why I join this discussion group. Does any body out there know where I could get environmental freindly materials, such as plywood that doesn't use phenol formaldehyde or any harmful substances and any environmetally freindly materials that I could use. And where can I get some research materials for the design. Thanks. --------------B6235487760-- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 15 11:12:11 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA06620 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA10712 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03832; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA25805 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:02:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from x12.boston.juno.com (x12.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.26]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA25800 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from environs.com@juno.com) by x12.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id L^D27564; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:02:04 EDT To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: environmentally friendly workstation Message-ID: <19970915.094858.4503.0.ENVIRONS.COM@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,13-20 From: environs.com@juno.com (Beverly A. Weiter) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:02:04 EDT Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 Hi, Oliver wrote requesting info on environmentally friendly workstations. Here are some suggestions. For recycled content & IAQ consider either a wheatboard or exterior grade plywood substrate with a laminate of Environ or wood laminate from M. Bohlke. Also look at some of the products from Yemm & Hart using recycled plastic. An alternative substrate, but one that would have to be sealed, would be Gridcore. Be sure to include provisions for low energy task lighting. Also, Designtex makes a recycled content fabric for panels called "Play it Again Sam." Sincerely, Beverly A. Weiter Environs Interiors Inc. 561-852-4262 ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 15 12:28:52 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA07536 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA02506 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA06666; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA28149 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:15:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from iceland.it.earthlink.net (iceland-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.28]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA28142 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.37.246.39] (1Cust39.max6.portland2.or.ms.uu.net [153.37.246.39]) by iceland.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA24880; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709151617.JAA24880@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: GBlist: Bamboo flooring info/experiences? Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 09:16:39 -0000 x-sender: oikos@earthlink.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Bruce Sullivan To: "Nadav Malin" , "Green Building" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 Nadav The REDI database (www.oikos.com/redi/) lists three more companies. Plyboo America, Inc Bamboo Flooring International Corp Amati Bambu Ltd. I've contacted all three companies in the last three months, so chances are good that they're still around. Bruce >For an upcoming article, I'm seeking any first-hand information or >experiences using strip flooring made from bamboo. I'm aware of two >companies selling it in the U.S.: > >Smith & Fong in San Francisco > >Bamboo Hardwoods in Seattle > >I also used to have contact with a Canadian company, Floorworks, but >haven't seen anything from them for a long time. > >Any additional leads or comments will be most appreciated. > >Thanks, Nadav Malin >Environmental Building News ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Sullivan Tel: 541-484-9353 Iris Communications, Inc. Fax: 541-484-1645 Web: http://www.oikos.com/ E-mail: iris@oikos.com ---------- 1,800 green building product listings online ----------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 15 14:36:05 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA09952 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA14275 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA04085; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA02732 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:23:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from freenet1.carleton.ca (freenet1.carleton.ca [134.117.136.20]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA02728 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freenet5.carleton.ca.carleton.ca (be417@freenet5.carleton.ca [134.117.136.25]) by freenet1.carleton.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA15446; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (be417@localhost) by freenet5.carleton.ca.carleton.ca (8.8.5/NCF-Sun-Client) id OAA17030; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709151826.OAA17030@freenet5.carleton.ca.carleton.ca> From: be417@freenet.carleton.ca (Robert W. Tom) To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Living Wall Reply-To: be417@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 Hello GB-Heads; An amigo from Arizona asked me if I knew anything about the "Living Wall" (designed by Wolf Amelung ?) biological air filter/ conditioner that was installed in the Canada Life building in Toronto. All I had to offer was third-hand (and hand-waving at that ) cursory knowledge about it. ...ie A wall of volcanic rock with water flowing over it, with various flora and fauna here and there ...through and around which, air is passed in order to to remove/neutralise contaminants/pollutants. Can anyone else on this List enlighten my desert friend with more/better information ? (I'm betting "Yes"). -- Rob Tom ---------- * ------------ be417@FreeNet.Carleton.ca Kanata, Ontario, Canada ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 15 18:06:57 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA14099 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA01249 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:02:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA11655; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA09888 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:50:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09884 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01373; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:49:55 -0700 Message-ID: <341DACDD.AFE8AF76@cow-net.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:47:09 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: be417@freenet.carleton.ca CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Living Wall X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709151826.OAA17030@freenet5.carleton.ca.carleton.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 Hi Robert How much did you bet? There is a web site on the breathing wall at http://www.ists.ca/canlif.htm which is a site of one of the sponsors. The project is just as you described it "...i.e. A wall of volcanic rock with > water flowing over it, with various flora and fauna here and > there ...through and around which, air is passed in order to to > remove/neutralise contaminants/pollutants. Here is a quote from Michael Dixon in a press release on the project > We have proved that a biological filter can actively remove significant > amounts of contaminants directly out of the air'', said Dr. Michael Dixon, who > heads the project for the University of Guelph. ``We are confident that > further experiments will corroborate these results and build on our knowledge > as we further challenge the plant system.'' > This development addresses the issues associated with sick building > syndrome or building related illness, which results as modern buildings, > designed to be air tight to facilitate heating and cooling, accumulate noxious > compounds. > The experiment forced low levels of the pollutants, formaldehyde, toluene > and trichloroethylene (TCE), commonly found in poor quality indoor air through > the water and plant biomass on the Breathing Wall of the Canada Life > Environmental Room. I spoke to Wolf Amelung about a year ago. He described a certain amount of skepticism on the part of some of the researchers involved. They felt that a certain number of water soluble contaminants would be affected by the process but (they) were surprised to find that substances such as toluene which are not water soluble were being removed by the process. The 'process' like all the best things in life is a mystery or to use a more acceptable term it is 'biological'. It is Wolf's opinion that the active elements are sub ecosystems of the overall semi aquatic life systems that were 'constructed' - in other words 'biological' - not unlike the wonderful 'schmutzdecke'. I was researching it for possible use in recirculating air in an indoor pool enclosure. I became interested in it again for possible use in purifying air for a MCS person but am concerned about biological contaminants. As far as I know no results have been published but I was planning to contact Dr. Dixon to see what information is available. One of Wolf's anecdotes was that the water system had to be shut down when the room was used as a boardroom as it caused everyone's bladder to overreact John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. Robert W. Tom wrote: > > Hello GB-Heads; > > An amigo from Arizona asked me if I knew anything about the > "Living Wall" (designed by Wolf Amelung ?) biological air filter/ > conditioner that was installed in the Canada Life building in > Toronto. > > All I had to offer was third-hand (and hand-waving at that ) > cursory knowledge about it. ...ie A wall of volcanic rock with > water flowing over it, with various flora and fauna here and > there ...through and around which, air is passed in order to to > remove/neutralise contaminants/pollutants. > > Can anyone else on this List enlighten my desert friend with > more/better information ? (I'm betting "Yes"). > > -- > Rob Tom > ---------- * ------------ > be417@FreeNet.Carleton.ca > Kanata, Ontario, Canada > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 15 18:09:31 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA14155 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA01868 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:05:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA11799; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA10028 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:53:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pathway1.pathcom.com (pathway1.pathcom.com [204.191.122.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA10024 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:53:32 -0400 (EDT) From: timex@pathcom.com Received: from ts5l11.pathcom.com (ts5l11.pathcom.com [209.112.16.95]) by pathway1.pathcom.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA19020; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709152155.RAA19020@pathway1.pathcom.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: be417@freenet.carleton.ca Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:52:02 +0000 Subject: Re: GBlist: Living Wall Reply-to: timex@pathcom.com CC: greenbuilding@crest.org In-reply-to: <199709151826.OAA17030@freenet5.carleton.ca.carleton.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 Tom: There is a web-site for this wall. See: http://www.ists.ca/canlif.htm Hope this is helpful. Marilyn http://www.pathcom.com/~timex/ Keep on keepin' on. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 15 20:19:22 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA16452 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA03387 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA14582; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA13208 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:04:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from Bob.cstone.net (bob.cstone.net [205.197.102.11]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA13198 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bstander.cstone.net (Dialin20.cstone.net [205.197.102.88]) by Bob.cstone.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-40984U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA1550 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:07:07 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970915150003.0069133c@cstone.net> X-Sender: bstander@cstone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:03:56 -0400 To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: bstander@cstone.net (Bella Stander) Subject: GBlist: Sources for decorative ceramic cabinet knobs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 ArialI'm looking for Delft-style ceramic cabinet knobs. Bought some beautiful ones by mail about 10 years ago from a company called Dutch Tile, somewhere in PA (near Philly?), but I lost the catalog during a divorce and 4 moves in 3 states in 5 years. Does anyone have any info or recommendations? Thanks! --Bella Stander (central Va.) ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 16 02:27:45 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA21959 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA01498 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA21814; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA20652 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:20:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from x11.boston.juno.com (x11.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.26]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA20648 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:20:05 -0400 (EDT) From: woodeneagle@juno.com Received: (from woodeneagle@juno.com) by x11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id CKX11029; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:21:38 EDT To: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:22:00 -0800 Subject: GBlist: Re: greenbuilding-digest V1 #387: Walmart Message-ID: <19970915.222404.12462.6.woodeneagle@juno.com> References: <199709130600.CAA04569@solstice.crest.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 Wendy The Walmart stores in Alaska are mostly like those everywhere else in the US,,,,On the edge of town, with a large parking lot, stoked with RV campers every night, which are taking business away from the campground accross the streeet.....I don't see anything benificial coming from them that is good for the community ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 16 10:36:52 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA00156 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA23537 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA26733; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:28:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA27169 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:23:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from smtp.gte.net (smtp.gte.net [207.115.153.29]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27165 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TAMPA.tpatiii.com (clw233180.gte.net [207.115.233.180]) by smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with SMTP id JAA21446; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:26:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <341E96EA.4257@gte.net> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:25:46 -0400 From: Cindy/Mike Shea Organization: Promoting Sustainable Development X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-GTE (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bella Stander CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Sources for decorative ceramic cabinet knobs References: <3.0.32.19970915150003.0069133c@cstone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 Bella, You might want to go right to the source. There are two geniune delftware manufacturers in the Netherlands. The Delftse Pauw Delftweg 133 Delft, NL and The Porcelain Fles Rotterdamseweg 196 Delft, NL I don't know if they fill mail orders or send catalogs, but it's a start. They may have US distributors. And don't worry about writing in English. Everybody in the Netherlands speaks at least three languages, including great English. Cindy Pollock Shea Promoting Sustainable Development ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 16 19:12:08 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA10403 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA29480 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA07561; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA14403 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:03:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pathway1.pathcom.com (pathway1.pathcom.com [204.191.122.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA14397 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:03:21 -0400 (EDT) From: timex@pathcom.com Received: from ts17l1.pathcom.com (ts17l1.pathcom.com [209.112.17.84]) by pathway1.pathcom.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA19540 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709162305.TAA19540@pathway1.pathcom.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:01:57 +0000 Subject: GBlist: (Fwd) [webgrrls-toronto] Not web-oriented, but might be of int Reply-to: timex@pathcom.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 Thought this might be of interest to some of the Canadians on this list. I hope it is not considered inappropriate to post it. Marilyn > > Please send this message to other appropriate addresses on your email >lists... > Let's Rally for Clean Solutions to Climate Protection > > > The Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment is meeting in Toronto, > preparing for the Framework Convention on Climate Change Meeting. > > > FRIDAY 19, SEPTEMBER 1997 > 1 P.M. TO 2:00 P.M. > > BARBARA SCOTT PARK > (across from the Delta Chelsea Hotel) > North side of Gerrard, just west of Yonge Street > > > Bring your signs, petitions, literature, banners and advice to the ministers > > * Demand that Canada sign a legally binding treaty at the Kyoto summit, > committing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20% by year 2005. > > * Demand that Canada support national, provincial and local projects to end > fossil fuel dependance and implement the conversion to renewable energy. > >Sponsored by Greenest City, Greenpeace, Toronto Environmental Alliance. __________________________________________________________________________ http://www.pathcom.com/~timex/ Keep on keepin' on. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 16 20:34:11 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA11909 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA17580 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA09267; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA16441 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:22:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.2.92]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16437 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.175.107.175] (hdn107-175.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.107.175]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA19212 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:25:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:25:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199709170025.RAA19212@m5.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: bhoward2@sprynet.com (Bion Howard) Subject: GBlist: Attn.: bandwidth vampires To: greenbuilding@crest.org In-Reply-To: <199709160600.CAA20327@solstice.crest.org> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.10.06.22 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 RE: many postings since about mid-August 1997 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Please do not post unnecessary garbage like message headers and routing listings with your information. It is virtual polution. Also, only re-post the excerpted meat of a question you are trying to answer. Many participants are good at this, others are annoyingly bad. OK? End of rant. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Bion Howard, Building Environmental Science & Technology ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 17 18:38:48 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA29409 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA02029 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05591; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA16262 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:30:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from november.diac.com (diac.com [209.64.40.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA16256 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.64.42.164] (p164.ts1.diac.com [209.64.42.164]) by november.diac.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA14586 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:38:24 GMT Message-Id: <199709172238.WAA14586@november.diac.com> Subject: GBlist: The Dog Days Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 16:34:51 -0600 x-sender: buzz@mail.diac.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Buzz Burrell To: "GreenBuilding List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 GreenBuilding List activity seems a little slow recently (either that or my 'net connection isn't working right again). I've been missing my bedtime reading. It almost makes me think the people on this List are actually working for a living and don't have time to aimlessly discuss what they spend 40+ hours a week thinking about already. In that spirit, I have a few questions that maybe someone could help me with: 1. I've been perplexed by some of the issues in this business. I need to know how to build a house that is totally energy efficient, is made only from ecological materials, provides excellent indoor air quality, will be readily code-approved, and is inexpensive. Please send detailed specifications on such a structure. (Post directly to me, not the List; I don't want anyone else to know). 2. A client of mine wants a house with all arch top windows, hardwood floors, tile roof, hydronic heat, photovoltaic panels, water provided by a deep well, and a 500 SF master suite, for a total Hard Cost of $72,000. Please send me complete blueprints for this house. 3. My plumbers and my electricians almost got in a fist-fight yesterday. Seems the problem is they are equal in the pecking order, and so they keep trying to push each other around (the drywallers and insulators aren't on site yet). Which one gets to pick on the other? I've searched all my building manuals, but haven't found the correct graph or table to clear up this confusion. Please advise. 4. I just got a demo disk in the mail for a software program that will save me tons of time scheduling and estimating projects. However, that was three weeks ago; I haven't had time to look at the disk yet. Please provide the reference number for the spec sheet on how to deal with this particular situation. I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks in advance for your advice. Buzz Burrell "Time flies like an arrow; Bolder Building Fruit flies like a banana". ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Wed Sep 17 21:47:30 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA06310 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA15337 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09165; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA21058 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:38:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from acs7.acs.ucalgary.ca (acs7.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.34.207]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21042; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA97258; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:37:44 -0600 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:37:44 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: John Cruickshank Cc: "'INTERNET:strawbale@crest.org'" , greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: RE: Cold Storage In-Reply-To: <199709172023_MC2-20D8-FA22@compuserve.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 Further to the below message, some may be interested in our latest modifications to our 1st generation cold closet. This 44 CF is a root cellar on the main floor of our sustainable home. Two motorized dampers with a small reused fan on the lower one. Two reused refrigerator thermostats open the motorized dampers and turn on the fan in either of the following 2 situations: 1) too warm inside the cool closet 2) too hot outside (ie. sun is warming up the east side) It has operated in a manual mode for the past 3 winters with temperatures 3-8 dC for 95% of the time. Last year the fridge was off for 7 months 3 weeks bringing our yearly cost for keeping food cold to $4.50 (cool closet + Vestfrost fridge/freezer).We have not finalized the control of this automatic system yet since we just completed it. _____________________________________________________ PLEASE NOTE NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS (below) _________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), environmental/architectural design, ecological planning, consulting on sustainable buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, workshops. 3 demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671 Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm e-mail: ______________________________________________________ On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, John Cruickshank wrote: > The source of the coldness would be a modified refrigeration system, ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 12:39:21 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA14245 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA19409 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA27357; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA06737 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:31:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emin24.mail.aol.com (emout36.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.28]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA06696; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:30:32 -0400 (EDT) From: RCMathis1@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emin24.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA14314; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970918122959_-900819296@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org, ee-building@crest.org Subject: GBlist: UPDATE: the search for window horror stories... Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 Greetings green and energy-efficient folk! Thought you might like a brief update on the status of the "window horror stories" search. First, THANKS to EVERYONE that sent materials in. Fortunately for ME but unfortunately for many, there are TOO MANY such real world horror stories about windows and doors and skylights..... and it is obviously an area where some serious education is needed. Here are a few received so far.... ALL worthy of potential list discussion... 1. Label between the glass in an IG unit. (installed, believe it or not....) 2. Patio doors installed upside down (many times) 3. Patio doors installed backward (too many times) 4. "Flying" tilt-in sash during typical wind storms. 5. Shimming nightmares. 6. Expansive foam nightmares..... ALL product types. 7. Duct Tape as flashing material "thousands of uses" 8. Pepsi cans as the "rest of the flashing"... 9. What are these sash reinforced with? Keep those "horror story" cards and letter and e-mails coming!!!! We are trying to make the EEBA conference session on windows as interesting and informative as possible. Please send any more "horror stories" you may have, OR, BETTER YET, COME TO THE EEBA conference and share your experience personally!!!! (We already have some people bringing videos of real world exampes!) November 5-9, 1997 in Denver. Thanks again for all your help to date! Keep sending those pictures and slides and stories (even though they keep me up at night....) ;^) Chris Mathis MCSquared 5249 Columbia Road Columbia, MD 21044 301-596-1931 ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 14:09:23 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA15422 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA16651 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29044; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09698 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:00:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from afceeb1.brooks.af.mil (afceeb1.brooks.af.mil [140.140.32.13]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09693 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:00:57 -0400 (EDT) From: kkivela@afceeb1.brooks.af.mil Received: by afceeb1.brooks.af.mil with VINES-ISMTP; Thu, 18 Sep 97 13:06:23 CDT Date: Thu, 18 Sep 97 13:05:58 CDT Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: Reply-To: Subject: GBlist: fwd: C&D recycling info request X-Incognito-SN: 490 X-Incognito-Version: 4.10.108 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 ------------- Original Text From: KAREN KIVELA@EQ@Broo-AFCEE, on 9/17/97 2:18 PM: To: smtp[owner-greenbuilding@crest.org] >>I'm writing a paper and I need to know what the percentage of construction >>wastes goes into landfills nationally. I have searched the web and have >>tried the EPA web-site, but haven't found the numbers I need. Does anyone >>know either the percentages (with references) or where I could go to get this >>information? Any help would be greatly appriciated. >Ah..."I've searched the Web", thus I must have absolutely exhausted the >readily available reference materials on this subject in ANY decent sized >library...whoops, I've spent more than five minutes on this project, time to >start asking around. Frankly, I resent these "please do my research for me" >posts ... Ma'am, weren't you just a little harsh here ? How much trouble would it be for anyone who knows of a reliable information source on C&D recycling, to simply pass it on to this student and to the rest of the list? I also need information about this and would appreciate any knowledgeable responses. There are many estimates floating around, with various degrees of credibility, and frankly I am not sure who to believe. I value the expertise of the readers of this list and hope someone can respond... if it wouldn't be too much trouble. Thank you, Karen Kivela Air Force Center for Environmental Excellence (yes, the AF is trying to be "green" too!) ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 14:43:42 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA15803 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA27527 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29701; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA10640 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:34:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA10633 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Snyder.Robin@epamail.epa.gov Received: from RTNTEMAIL.RTRT2144.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-8 #22480) with SMTP id <0EGPVIK3U001G2@epamail.epa.gov> for greenbuilding@crest.org; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by RTNTEMAIL.RTRT2144.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 85256516.00662BDA ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:35:58 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:29:31 -0400 Subject: GBlist: C&D recycling info request To: greenbuilding@crest.org Message-id: <85256516.00657BF3.00@RTNTEMAIL.RTRT2144.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 Original question: I'm writing a paper and I need to know what the percentage of construction wastes goes into landfills nationally. I have searched the web and have tried the EPA web-site, but haven't found the numbers I need. Does anyone know either the percentages (with references) or where I could go to get this information? Any help would be greatly appriciated. My response: Actually, quite a good question. It turns out that only very spotty records are kept on the fate of C&D wastes. I have tried to find the data, too, and it's just not out there. Or, perhaps I should say that what's out there is not robust enough to withstand analytical scrutiny. EPA's Office of Solid Waste has a study underway to estimate the quantities of C&D wastes generated, we expect the report to be available this Fall. Hope that helps. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 15:27:36 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA16261 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA13579 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00701; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA11897 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:19:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from CLEMSON.EDU (mail.clemson.edu [130.127.28.14]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA11893 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:19:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clemson.edu ([206.240.183.38] (may be forged)) by CLEMSON.EDU (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA20281 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970918152116.290f0f2e@mail.clemson.edu> X-Sender: cdewitt@mail.clemson.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: Craig DeWitt Subject: RE: GBlist: C&D recycling info request Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 I have a copy of a report titled "Characterization of Waste Streams in the Three Rivers Solid Waste Authority Study Area [7 counties near] Aiken, South Carolina" that contains some C&D numbers...such as 745,467 tons of waste were generated within the study area in 1996, of which 97,381 tons were C&D waste, of which 30 tons were recycled. If anyone is REAL interested, I can try to get copies made. Contact me off the list. Craig DeWitt SC Energy R&D Center Clemson University ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 16:36:12 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA17245 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA06637 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA03039; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA02072 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:28:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from hevanet.com (hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA02066 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:28:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.101] (pa-ppp36.hevanet.com [204.119.60.48]) by hevanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12559 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970918152116.290f0f2e@mail.clemson.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: "Mike O'Brien" Subject: GBlist: Re: C&D recycling info request Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 Debbi Allen, magnificent and most exalted queen of C&D waste recovery and recycling, says that only a few solid waste agencies have documented their waste flows. She did the field studies here in Portland. Pepper her with questions at 503-248-4550. For C&D recycling rates for Portland Oregon metropolitan area, contact Metro Solid Waste, Bruce Jacobson, 503-797-1663. Metro's general recycling info line is 503-234-3000. Mike O'Brien & Associates Environmental Building Consultants Portland General Electric Earth Smart program obrien@hevanet.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 16:36:43 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA17265 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA06800 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA02893; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01922 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:23:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout22.mail.aol.com (emout22.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.127]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01917 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:23:18 -0400 (EDT) From: LOCASKY@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout22.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA01633 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970918160953_1528530340@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: roofing materials Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 I am looking for a source for a roofing shingle, that is made out of some kind of ruber/vinyl/recycled product. I have heard that it is manufactured in Canada, that it lasts forever and has the appearance of slate. Thanks to all for the information. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 18:58:13 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA18804 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA15421 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA06054; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA06356 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:49:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from acs7.acs.ucalgary.ca (acs7.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.34.207]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06352 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA136444; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:49:08 -0600 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:49:08 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: LOCASKY@aol.com Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: polyslate In-Reply-To: <970918160953_1528530340@emout18.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 Dear?: the above is (was) available from Rubin Marketing: Allan Rubin phone: (416) 474-1933. Environmentally-sound composite.Perhaps you can update the rest of us once you have investigated this potential lead. _________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm e-mail: _____________________________________________________ On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 LOCASKY@aol.com wrote: > > I am looking for a source for a roofing shingle, that is made out of some > kind of ruber/vinyl/recycled product. I have heard that it is manufactured > in Canada, that it lasts forever and has the appearance of slate. Thanks to > all for the information. > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 19:19:52 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA19094 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA20562 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA06536; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:15:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA07051 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:10:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net (norway-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.49]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA07047 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.37.244.199] (1Cust71.max3.portland2.or.ms.uu.net [153.37.244.199]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA22426 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709182312.QAA22426@norway.it.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: GBlist: roofing materials Date: Thu, 18 Sep 97 16:11:34 -0000 x-sender: oikos@earthlink.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Bruce Sullivan To: "Green Building" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 >I am looking for a source for a roofing shingle, that is made out of some >kind of ruber/vinyl/recycled product. I have heard that it is manufactured >in Canada, that it lasts forever and has the appearance of slate. Thanks to >all for the information. REDI (www.oikos.com/redi) lists quite a few different kinds of roofing. Here are a couple of those that might fit your question: Manner Value Plastic 1150 Applewood Dr Papillion, NE 68046-5786 tel: 402-596-9955 fax: 402-596-9973 Re-New Wood, Inc. PO Box 1093 Wagoner, OK 74467 tel: 918-485-5803 tel: 800-420-7576 fax: 918-485-1097 A link to more info appears with this company. I suggest you start your search under "Thermal and Moisture Protection." That will show you several promising product categories and should lead you to several more companies that may be appropriate. Bruce ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Sullivan Tel: 541-484-9353 Iris Communications, Inc. Fax: 541-484-1645 Web: http://www.oikos.com/ E-mail: iris@oikos.com ---------- 1,800 green building product listings online ----------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 20:16:53 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA19566 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA03273 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA07960; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA08344 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:08:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pathway1.pathcom.com (pathway1.pathcom.com [204.191.122.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08340 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:08:25 -0400 (EDT) From: timex@pathcom.com Received: from ts18l15.pathcom.com (ts18l15.pathcom.com [209.112.17.114]) by pathway1.pathcom.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA09228 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709190010.UAA09228@pathway1.pathcom.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: greenbuilding@crest.org Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:06:58 +0000 Subject: RE: GBlist: C&D recycling info request Reply-to: timex@pathcom.com In-reply-to: <2.2.16.19970918152116.290f0f2e@mail.clemson.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 I had contacted Priestly, one of the biggest 'deconstruction' outfits in the Toronto area a while ago because they were doing a huge building across the street from where I work, and they swear they recycle or resell 98% of everything they take out. Marilyn http://www.pathcom.com/~timex/ Keep on keepin' on. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Thu Sep 18 23:21:57 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA22660 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA26808 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA11200; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA12570 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:10:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com (emout02.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.93]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA12565 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:10:40 -0400 (EDT) From: IAQKibbey@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA28417 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970918231154_1763520916@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: roofing materials Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 In a message dated 9/18/97 2:24:16 PM, you wrote: >I am looking for a source for a roofing shingle, that is made out of some >kind of rubber/vinyl/recycled product. I have heard that it is manufactured >in Canada, that it lasts forever and has the appearance of slate. Thanks to >all for the information. >____________________ Try Majestic Skyline, Inc., P.O. Box 11, Station B, Ottawa, ON K1P 6C3, Canada, phone: 613-722-4548, Fax: 613-722-5548. They make rubber roofing cast to look like slate, made from recycled post industrial rubber. Product has a 50 year life and weighs approximately the same as asphalt roofing. The thickness is approx. 3/16 in. at the exposed end. Colors range from black to all shades of gray. The price ranges from $240 - $270/ square depending on the slope. For a slope less than 6:12, it needs 6 in. exposure and 200 tiles a square. For a greater slope, it needs 7 in. exposure at 174 tiles per square. David Kibbey, Environmental Building Consultant IAQKibbey@aol.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 19 07:11:08 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA25495 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA17069 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19438; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA18026 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:01:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mail.vineyard.net (ns2.vineyard.net [204.17.195.100]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18022 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by mail.vineyard.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) id HAA26324 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csy2.vineyard.net(199.232.92.62) by mail.vineyard.net via smap/slg (V1.3) id sma026314; Fri Sep 19 07:03:24 1997 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:06:46 +0100 To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: "John R. Abrams" Subject: GBlist: Roofing Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 In response to the following query: >I am looking for a source for a roofing shingle, that is made out of some >kind of ruber/vinyl/recycled product. I have heard that it is manufactured >in Canada, that it lasts forever and has the appearance of slate. Thanks to >all for the information Crowe Industries, Hamilton, Ontario, (905) 529 - 6818, makes a product called "Authentic Roof" which is a non-authentic slate-like shingle. It is made from waste polymers and rubber, primarily from tires and debris from diaper manufacturing. We've used it successfully. It comes with a 50 year warranty and a list price of $350. per square. Not cheap, but it installs easily. Nice product. It looks uncannily like slate, except that at present there is only one pattern, so if you look at a single tile you're amazed at the resemblance, but if you look at a whole roof the lack of variegation makes it look like something else. They say that soon they'll have eight moulds instead of one - this will be a big improvement. They're also working to increase flame retardancy. Good luck - John ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 19 08:07:57 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA25891 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA29985 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19859; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA18528 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:53:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pike.sover.net (pike.sover.net [204.71.16.17]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18519 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.71.17.128] (pm0a28.bf.sover.net [204.71.17.128]) by pike.sover.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11426; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:55:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: ebn@sover.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970918160953_1528530340@emout18.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: LOCASKY@aol.com, greenbuilding@crest.org From: Nadav Malin Subject: Re: GBlist: roofing materials Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 Last year Environmental Building News reviewed a product along these lines called the Eco-shake from Renew Wood, Inc. of Wagoner, OK. It's made of wood fiber and recycled PVC from garden-hose manufacturer--both post-industrial. It is heavily textured to look like a wood shake. PHone numbers: 800/485-5803, 918/485-5803 Nadav Malin At 4:25 PM -0400 9/18/97, LOCASKY@aol.com wrote: >I am looking for a source for a roofing shingle, that is made out of some >kind of ruber/vinyl/recycled product. I have heard that it is manufactured >in Canada, that it lasts forever and has the appearance of slate. Thanks to >all for the information. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 19 10:20:06 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA27667 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA27872 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA21622; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA21147 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:10:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from acs7.acs.ucalgary.ca (acs7.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.34.207]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA21142 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA95666; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:09:32 -0600 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:09:32 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: recycled Roofing In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 Can any of these splendid roofing materials be used for rainwater collection for household use? This may be a serious limiting factor, since all our roofs must be able to do this in an uncontaminated manner. _________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm e-mail: _____________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 19 13:24:16 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA01118 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA18907 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25732; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA25389 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:14:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from glacier.binc.net (glacier.binc.net [205.173.176.10]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25385 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.142.229.23] (mke-1-7.binc.net [208.142.229.23]) by glacier.binc.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA102976 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:16:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199709191716.MAA102976@glacier.binc.net> Subject: GBlist: reidential water usage Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 11:24:58 -0000 From: Chris & Ruth Koehn To: "GB List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 Anyone know the average per household water usage per day in the U.S.? Chris Koehn Top Ridge ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 19 14:55:58 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA02437 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA20031 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27489; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA28277 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:42:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [205.252.116.101]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28273 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PreinstalledCom (bsd-as2s28.erols.com [207.172.240.91]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA09143 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709191845.OAA09143@smtp1.erols.com> X-Sender: usbt@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: Joseph Charlson Subject: GBlist: Questions on concrete sealant & vapor barriers for a below grade living space Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 Questions on concrete sealant & vapor barriers for a below grade living space: I have an unfinished basement that I'm finishing in the Boston area. The structure is all uninsulated cast concrete. Its approximately 5 feet below grade and 2.5 feet above grade. There doesn't appear to be any foundation drainage. The dehumidifier removes approx. 7 gallons of water a day right now. I expect the humidity to increase once we start occupying the space. My current plan is to tape and seal 6 mil polyethylene across all walls and the floor slab. On the walls I was going to use R13 un-faced batts except for the above grade portion where I can fit R19. This will be air sealed from the interior with drywall. I know the general rule is to put the vapor barrier (poly of Kraft) on the warm side in heating climates but I think I should put it on the concrete foundation b/c of all the water that's currently diffusing through the walls and floor. Does anyone think this is especially bad b/c of the 6-7 month heating situation in Boston? Also can anyone comment on the benefits or any potential health risks of applying a concrete water sealant (like Olympic or other commercial products) to the interior surfaces of the concrete? If this stuff really works and isn't going to off gass nasty chemicals into the living space, then I would either move the polyethylene layer to the interior behind the drywall OR use Kraft faced batts on the interior and no polyethylene at all. I guess the poly or Kraft might help keep out the sealant emissions if it should actually be an issue. Can anyone offer me some good advice? Thanks in advance, Joe Charlson ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 19 16:46:45 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA03650 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:46:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA21552 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00444; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01613 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:36:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mail.topher.net (mail.topher.net [206.136.138.6]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01607 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns1.topher.net (ppp05.topher.net [206.136.138.164]) by mail.topher.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA02140; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:28:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:28:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199709192028.PAA02140@mail.topher.net> X-Sender: ewestbrook@mail.topher.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Chris & Ruth Koehn , greenbuilding@crest.org From: ewestbrook Subject: Re: GBlist: residential water usage Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 Chris Koehn asked: >Anyone know the average per household water usage per day in the U.S.? > The following data comes from a water and wastewater engineering course I took back in 1992; I don't know if the numbers have changed much since then, and I don't know what the professor's published source was. USA average: 60-100 gpcd for residential use, total of 166 gpcd (gallons per capita per day) including commercial, industrial, public use, and system losses (i.e., leaks) Other municipal averages, total consumption: Dallas 161 gpcd Houston 250 gpcd LA 181 Tulsa 157 Other countries: U.K. 71 gpcd Japan (Tokyo) 77 W. Germany 46 Switzerland 107 Egypt 26 Pakistan 19 India 14 Spain 44 Makes you think we could be using a *lot* less, doesn't it? The minimum required to support life is 1-1.5 gpcd. In the U.S., residential use breaks down like this: toilets 41% washing 37% kitchen 11% laundry 4% cleaning 3% lawns 3% car washing 1% Those figures are national averages. I promise, in the fancy suburb nearest us (Plano, Texas), summertime water use is much more than 3% -- probably a lot more%. The average water use there is 15,000 gallons per month per household (annualized). That's about 125 gpcd, assuming a four-person family and a 30-day month. At our house, with low-flow fixtures (but 1.6 gpf toilets) and 1600-gallon cistern for landscape water, we use an average of 33.3 gpcd. And we don't even have a very efficient washing machine, sorry to say! Hope this helps! ---Elena Westbrook, ELS WordWright Communications EWestbrook@topher.net ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 19 19:57:30 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA07283 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA09656 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:53:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA04240; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA05829 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:48:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA05825 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA15014; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 18:50:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sba-ca1-25.ix.netcom.com(204.32.201.57) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014297; Fri Sep 19 18:46:55 1997 Message-ID: <3422ADC9.2F11@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:52:34 +0000 From: Richard Dean Reply-To: e2wt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-NC320 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris & Ruth Koehn CC: GB List Subject: Re: GBlist: reidential water usage References: <199709191716.MAA102976@glacier.binc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 > Anyone know the average per household water usage per day in the U.S.? > > Chris Koehn > Top Ridge > ______ I found a number close to your question. 90 gallons/day/person in an urban environment. Source: Local newspaper. I don't know what an average household is though, 2.4 ? -- Richard Dean E2WT Services Energy, Environmental, & Water Treatment Specialists 6440 W Camino Cielo Santa Barbara, CA 93105 (805) 967-2141 ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Fri Sep 19 21:01:01 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA07806 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA23107 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:56:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA05119; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA06785 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:52:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mx02.together.net (mx02.together.net [204.97.120.62]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA06779 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (dial-27-TNT-BTVT-01.ramp.together.net [208.13.202.27]) by mx02.together.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA06858; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:54:51 -0400 Message-ID: <34231EBC.511@together.net> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:54:20 -0400 From: Tom Anderson Reply-To: hvac@together.net Organization: Mechanical Systems Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris & Ruth Koehn , greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: residential water usage Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 Chris & Ruth Koehn: Some notes on my houshold water consumption, for your information. Recently, I looked at my water bills. My average daily consumption is a tad more than 80 gallons per day. I live in a 1.5 story 45 year old cape in Northern Vermont. I live alone, no kids, in suburbia. Most of the plumbing fixtures are circa 1950, and use water accordingly. Only my 2.0 gpm shower head approaches modern efficiency. When my x lived here, the average was 90 to 100 gallons per day. The poor overall water efficiency of my home also extends to the thermal envelope with 1.5 inches of fiberglass wall batts, old monster cast iron coal furnace uograded to nat gas with retrofit blower, operates at 50% efficiency, on good days. I work as a self employed HVAC design/commissioning consultant with a strong record in design of high performance HVAC systems. That explains the dismal person efficiency standards, conforming to the old rule about plumbers having leaky faucets. Tom Anderson ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 20 00:06:17 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA09160 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA05346 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA07385; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA09415 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:57:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mail.paltech.com (ns.paltech.com [198.69.130.3]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA09411 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (ip16.dialup.paltech.com [198.69.130.35]) by mail.paltech.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36796U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA152; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:06:10 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970919235955.00718f54@paltech.com> X-Sender: herector@paltech.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:59:55 -0400 To: Chris & Ruth Koehn , "GB List" From: Harry Rector Subject: Re: GBlist: reidential water usage In-Reply-To: <199709191716.MAA102976@glacier.binc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 Chris: One reference worth examining is EPA's Exposure Factors Handbook. Check their website (http://www.epa.gov/ORD/WebPubs/exposure/) for a PDF edition. I'm one of the authors of that section covering residential parameters (either 16 or 17, if memory serves), and water usage is covered in fair detail (Charlie Wilkes did a pretty intensive summary of the literature up to 1996). There's even a breakdown by water use appliance. My copy isn't handy (natch), so I can't confirm the chapter number. The document, by the way, is still in draft status (pending response to Science Advisory Board comments), but these numbers are unlikely to change. ... Harry ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 20 05:16:54 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id FAA11805 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id FAA24988 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA09808; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA12445 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:08:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mail1-gui.server.which.net (mail1-gui.server.which.net [194.168.97.3]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA12441 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default ([194.168.100.102]) by mail1-gui.server.which.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 549-35819U10000L100S0) with ESMTP id AAA17378 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:19:51 +0100 Message-ID: <342393F0.D8A46F8E@which.net> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:14:26 +0100 From: malcolm.scott@which.net (malcolm.scott@which.net) Reply-To: malcolm.scott@which.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: reidential water usage X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709191716.MAA102976@glacier.binc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 Here's a link to try: http://www.ae.iastate.edu/HTMDOCS/pm1089.htm Malcolm Scott Chris & Ruth Koehn wrote: > Anyone know the average per household water usage per day in the U.S.? > > Chris Koehn > Top Ridge > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 20 09:49:42 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA14882 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA06834 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA11082; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA14204 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:38:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from pike.sover.net (pike.sover.net [204.71.16.17]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA14200 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.71.18.105] (pm0a5.bratt.sover.net [204.71.18.105]) by pike.sover.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27180; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: atwilson@sover.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709191716.MAA102976@glacier.binc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Chris & Ruth Koehn From: Alex Wilson Subject: Re: GBlist: reidential water usage Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 Chris Koen inquired about the average water use per day in the U.S. The U.S. Geological Survey is the primary U.S. agency that tracks water consumption, and their most recent data is from 1990. During that year, the average water consumption by people with their own wells was 79 gallons per capita per day (gpcd). Average consumption by people on public water supplies was 105 gpcd. However, there are significant differences in different parts of the country. For details, check out USGS statistics on-line: http://h2o.usgs.gov. Roughly half of the domestic water in the U.S. comes from aquifers; half from surface waters. BTW, our current issue of Environmental Building News has a feature article on water conservation. Give our office a call or e-mail us if you would like us to send you a copy as a free sample issue. Alex Wilson, Editor & Publisher Environmental Building News 802/257-7300 or ebn@ebuild.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 20 10:14:59 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA15737 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA11135 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA11347; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA14471 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:03:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.2.92]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14466 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.174.138.74] (ad11-074.compuserve.com [199.174.138.74]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA15019 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 07:05:37 -0700 Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 07:05:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199709201405.HAA15019@m5.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: bhoward2@sprynet.com (Bion Howard) Subject: GBlist: C&D waste issues (R. Snyder post) To: greenbuilding@crest.org X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.10.06.22 Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 -----------C&D waste issues-------------------- >Snip from post GB (digest #392 -- 19 Sept. 1997) ------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:29:31 -0400 From: Snyder.Robin@epamail.epa.gov Subject: GBlist: C&D recycling info request Original question: I'm writing a paper and I need to know what the percentage of construction wastes goes into landfills nationally. I have searched the web and have tried the EPA web-site, but haven't found the numbers I need. Does anyone know either the percentages (with references) or where I could go to get this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bion Howard response: RS- check with Peter Yost at the NAHB Research Center, (301) 249-4000 (local call from Judiciary Square or Waterside Mall...) who has done considerable study in this area. C&D waste resource reduction is an area every builder can and should take steps to implement now. Every green building conference has some sessions on this, and papers exist on the topic as well. ......................................................................... BTW, RC is funded to do a green building manual (yes another green building manual, thank goodness...) by EPA !! The program is funded in support of national green-home marketing program sponsored by NAHB -- the same group that brought U.S. a nationwide effort to repeal local adoption and enforcement of the Model Energy Code !! NAHB going green is more about the color of money (personal rant here) and helping put down "needless regulation that hurts the industry..." as opposed to real reform in the environmental impacts of development. It stands to __ builders themselves__ to learn about and implement their own green building "standards," since powerful political forces including NAHB, the lumber industry, and others are delaying promulgation of new voluntary standards in order to buy time for existing products to complete market cycles, and since many consultant studies predictably show that competing and quite dissimilar products are "greener than driven pine- needles..." While developing this program, the Research Center is also participating (well, sort of) in the development of ASTM standard guidelines for residential green buildings. To their credit the C&D resource analysis work they have done is of a unique and high-quality nature. There are several published reports on this topic too, but P. Yost will have to help here since there has been a glut of green building "information" that is quite a lot like solar in the mid-to-late 1970's. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --Legal Notice to be attached to all re-postings of this writing -- Note: comments contained here are the personal opinion of Bion Howard and do not reflect the opinions of any entity hosted on or linked to the "Howard Associates" web-site, and are not to be quoted outside the "Green Building" list, managed by Oikos and EBN. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------------< Contact Information >----------------- Mr. Bion D. Howard, Principal Building Environmental Science & Technology P. O. Box 1007, Upper Marlboro, Maryland 20773 USA bdhoward@ix.netcom.com <--> http://www.nrg-builder.com Voice# 410-867-8000 fax# 301-889-0889 ------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 20 11:45:43 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA17444 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA27767 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA12030; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15576 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:37:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout21.mail.aol.com (emout21.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.126]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15572 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:37:11 -0400 (EDT) From: ANovelli@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout21.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA19317 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970920111655_-263415696@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: reidential water usage Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 Not sure if htis is helpful, though I learened recently the GPCD for Tucson is 110..... and this is supposedly reflecting a more miserly usage than national averages. I will speak with the folks at the Environmental Research Laboratory here when I see them today. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 20 12:05:52 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA17709 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA01464 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12238; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15797 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:56:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15792 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA06304; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:56:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3423F18D.A136ECFF@cow-net.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:53:49 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph Charlson CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Questions on concrete sealant & vapor barriers for a below grade living space X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709191845.OAA09143@smtp1.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 Joseph Charlson wrote: > > Questions on concrete sealant & vapor barriers for a below grade > living space: > > I have an unfinished basement that I'm finishing in the Boston area. > The > structure is all uninsulated cast concrete. Its approximately 5 feet > below > grade and 2.5 feet above grade. There doesn't appear to be any > foundation > drainage. Hi Joseph You should check a few things before finishing a basement i.e. height of water table and exterior drainage meaning not just if there is perimeter drainage but also where the gutters drain, if the land slopes toward the basement, etc. Look for signs of flooding or areas of excessive dampness in the basement itself. Insurance companies don't always cover damage from flooding. Exterior damp or waterproofing and drainage is really the best option (but not that useful if there is hydrostatic pressure from high water table). If it is not possible to do the exterior work interior waterproofing can be done with cementious products such as Zypec (discussed earlier check archives for address). Other concrete waterproofers (such as the Olympia you mentioned) use percentages of silicone for waterproofing. Most use a solvent base but there are friendly alternatives - one is called Enviroseal by Thoro which is a water based silicone top sealer and is quite effective. These products are generally used to provide a clear coating on cement or stucco where you want to preserve the appearance of the concrete. Use the cementious product if you can as it has more integrity for its purpose. I would not use fiberglass insulation as its effectiveness is compromised by any moisture (in other words useless). Foam (EPS) in higher densities would both insulate more effectively and provide the moisture barrier. You could use a foamed adhesive such as enerbond to attach the panels to the concrete and the drywall to the foam (no wood involved - fewer materials for mold growth etc. Finished basements such as you describe are not the healthiest places and do not work well with conventional finishing materials (potential for mold growth etc.) If I was to create specifications for finishing that area I would: - excavate perimeter to footing - slope the footing (applying mortar or cement) - apply zypec to 8" above grade - drain rock and perimeter drainage at footing (do not tie gutter drains into perimeter drainage) - apply foam insulation boards against exterior foundation walls from 2' below grade to top of foundation wall (you can use stucco or zypec over the foam) - use drainage board or backfill with gravel/sand - create a free draining path area around the house rather than plantings INTERIOR SPECIFICATIONS: the interior should now be dry and insulated - drywall can be directly laminated to the conc. walls but it would be preferable to avoid paper faced and gypsum products - cleaning and smoothing the exist conc. or going to a smooth stucco finish might be preferable. - flooring (if you need to install an additional heat source you might want to think of running radiant floor tubing to take advantage of the existing mass and pour a 1.5" slab over and either colouring the conc. or installing tile, etc. Sorry if this is more info than you wanted but it struck me that the system you were describing was not taking advantage of or working to improve what you already have. Its generally been my opinion that a healthy house is not just a question of using the least dangerous materials but more of balancing the inherent properties of materials - so that they work together, e.g.. taking advantage of the fact that the area is already ground insulated so insulating only the exterior portion above grade, using the mass as a heat sink, improving the existing mold resistant walls rather than adding a new, potentially contaminating layer, etc. Better stop now. Good luck John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sat Sep 20 13:16:36 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA18172 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA16939 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA13100; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA16912 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:03:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from m20.boston.juno.com (m20.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.190]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16908 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bandjf@juno.com) by m20.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id NhN11000; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:04:32 EDT To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: RE: Insulation/ attic- crawlspace Message-ID: <19970920.125737.7503.0.BANDJF@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-7,9,11-13,15-16,19-22,25-27 From: bandjf@juno.com (J FESCO) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:04:32 EDT Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 Hi- I'm new to this list, but due to the nature of my problems, have been referred here by others belonging to MCS lists I have Chemical Sensitivity, and would greatly appreciate some suggestions on making our attic/ crawlspace less unhealthy for me. In this crawlspace is the old insulation- a ground up paper type of blown in insulation. I have been advised to have it removed, and replaced with something that is a "safer" alternative for myself- with my condition. Does anyone know of any fairly "safe" way of getting the old insulation out of there and are their companies that do this kind of work? Also, any suggestions on what type of insulation that has had some success with people with chemical sensitivities, that we can use in that attic.. Just to note, we are living in a warm moist climate. Being so chemically sensitive, makes this situation imperative to deal with. I am limited to the things that can be done while I'm living in the home. Any help in this area would be greatly appreciated. Thanks- Beth ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 10:17:46 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA04249 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA19210 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02679; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA03735 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:05:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from kirkwood.hoosier.net (kirkwood.hoosier.net [206.106.64.12]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03693 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 206.106.67.59 (pm1-27.hoosier.net [206.106.67.59]) by kirkwood.hoosier.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA14196; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:06:48 -0500 Message-ID: <34252985.4E5C@bloomington.in.us> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:04:54 -0500 From: John Bower Organization: The Healthy House Institute X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: J FESCO CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: RE: Insulation/ attic- crawlspace References: <19970920.125737.7503.0.BANDJF@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 Insulation is only a problem if it migrates from where it is located (inside building cavities such as walls and attics, and crawl spaces) to where people are located (the living space). There are a variety of ways that such migration takes place. A low-tox insulation (such as AirKrete) can be quite costly, so I usually recommend preventing the insulation from getting into the living space. The thinking is this: if the insulation stays out of the living space, you aren't exposed, so it can't affect you. In new construction, you can build a very tight house (don't forget mechanical ventilation), and the insulation, no matter what kind it is, can't get into the living space. I've done this several times with sensitive people with great success, even using insulation that would be bothersome if a sensitive person is exposed directly. In existing houses, you are limited as to how tight you can make a house simply because you can't get to all the leakage points. Yes, you can often tighten a great deal, but you just can't get an existing house as tight as one you are building from scratch and tightening as you put it together. My suggestion in your situation is this: use a fan to blow air from the outdoors into the living space to pressurize the house. That way, air will enter the living space via the fan, then it will leak out through the structure, through building cavities, and toward the outdoors. Thus there will be no air (or pollutants) traveling from the insulation-filled cavities into the living space, the air will be moving in the opposite direction. Please be advised that I would not make this same recommendation in a cold climate. You said you lived in a warm, moist climate. Pressurization in a cold climate can lead to hidden moisture problems. For more information see my book Understanding Ventilation. Having said all that, in the majority of cases, sensitive people are bothered by materials that are actually within the living space. Things such as carpet, cabinets, wall paneling, furnishings, cleaning products, etc., are more often the problem than someting going on in a building cavity. -- John Bower, The Healthy House Institute http://www.hhinst.com/ email: healthy@bloomington.in.us 430 N. Sewell Road, Bloomington, IN 47408 Phone/fax 812-332-5073 ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 10:22:33 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA04265 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA20316 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03574; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA05248 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:11:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from usr04.primenet.com (usr04.primenet.com [206.165.6.204]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05237 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from primenet.com (root@mailhost02.primenet.com [206.165.5.53]) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29144 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 07:13:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from preinstalledcom (ip202.prc.primenet.com [207.218.17.202]) by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA02426 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 07:14:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <34252B88.3046@primenet.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 07:13:28 -0700 From: John Reply-To: jonwil@primenet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Re: ifo Cascade toilet References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 101 Does anyone use this type of 1.6 gal flush toilet-what do you think? And where can one get one (a few)? Thanks in advance, John Wilson Prescott, AZ. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 10:39:16 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA04323 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA23924 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA06527; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA08203 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:24:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from ns.waymark.net (ns.waymark.net [207.18.144.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08173 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:24:19 -0400 (EDT) From: kahless@ns.waymark.net Received: from [207.18.145.80] (dalmax1-80.waymark.net [207.18.145.80]) by ns.waymark.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA02584 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:24:03 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: kahless@mail.waymark.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:10:45 -0600 To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Roof ventilation - soffit vents Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 I've got a bit of a problem - maybe someone on this list can help. I have a new roof with composition shingles and properly installed ridge vents. Long story short, roofer claimed experience with the venting system. 5 months later, he has finally got them installed correctly. He's gone and I'm trying to get additional soffit ventng. Looks like I'll either be doing the sofit vents myself or having someone work from detailed instructions. I understand the concept and know I need much more soffit venting than I have now. Problem is finding a suitable product to install. I'd like to have continuous venting, but can only find a product that is about 2" wide. This doesn't seem wide enough and involves cutting into the soffit. I'd like to replace the entire soffit with a continuous vent. Has anyone done this or even heard of it? I'm being told this can't be done/is a bad idea. Samantha kahless@waymark.net P.S. I'm in a rural area north of Dallas, Texas. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 11:16:00 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA04571 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA01350 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA16795; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA18542 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:04:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca (ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.244.11]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18493 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA121482; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:03:52 -0600 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:03:52 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: John Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: low flush toilets In-Reply-To: <34252B88.3046@primenet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 John: Most US suppliers make 1.5 gal. toilets. But why bother? I would investigate the use of the Sealand .6 Litres (1 pint) ultra-low flush toilet instead, available directly from Sealand or any RV dealer? This may be appropriate for your application. All toilets have pros and cons. _________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm e-mail: _____________________________________________________ On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, John wrote: > > Does anyone use this type of 1.6 gal flush toilet-what do you think? And > where can one get one (a few)? > > Thanks in advance, > John Wilson > Prescott, AZ. > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 12:03:31 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA04813 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA12913 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA19766; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA21399 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:38:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from sweden.it.earthlink.net (sweden-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.50]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21394 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.37.244.160] (1Cust32.max3.portland2.or.ms.uu.net [153.37.244.160]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA01248 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709211540.IAA01248@sweden.it.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: ifo Cascade toilet Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 08:39:35 -0000 x-sender: oikos@earthlink.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Bruce Sullivan To: "Green Building" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 John We installed three Kohler low flush models rated at 1.6 gallons when we built our house 5 years ago. In that time I've used the plunger _once_. We have two young girls who tend to use more paper than necessary. But that doesn't seem to be a problem. Despite the whining of some members of Congress on this issue, my experience shows the 1.6 gallon flushers to be quite effective. BTW, REDI (www.oikos.com/redi) lists companies that make low flush toilets rated at 1.6 gallons or under. Bruce S. >Does anyone use this type of 1.6 gal flush toilet-what do you think? And >where can one get one (a few)? > >Thanks in advance, >John Wilson >Prescott, AZ. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Sullivan Tel: 541-484-9353 Iris Communications, Inc. Fax: 541-484-1645 Web: http://www.oikos.com/ E-mail: iris@oikos.com ---------- 1,800 green building product listings online ----------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 13:29:07 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA05338 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA05215 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10554; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA08325 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:13:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.34]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA08282 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from itjfvkli ([207.146.44.67]) by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAB19577 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:16:01 +0000 From: "Mary McDaniel" To: Subject: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:47:11 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970921171557.AAB19577@itjfvkli> Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 Does anyone have references or information on how to outgas a new 10 story office building by heating it up to outgas or any other methods? I remember reading something about heat to outgas, but I can't find the reference. My husband is moving into this building next year and we were talking about ways to minimize sick building problems since the builder did not do any greenbuilding techniques to our knowledge. Hopefully, greenbuilding practices will be the "norm" in the future instead of the exception! ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 13:34:16 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA05366 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA06479 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11158; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:28:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09640 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:23:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.11]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09624 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frazer (ip128.islip4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.250.128]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01765; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970921172348.006e451c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: doughf@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:23:48 -0400 To: kahless@ns.waymark.net, greenbuilding@crest.org From: Frazer Dougherty Subject: Re: GBlist: Roof ventilation - soffit vents Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 While the general rule for roof venting is equal areas in & out, air is pretty dumb and goes where it wants. You might what to have some pressure measurements done to assure that the ridge vent is not pulling conditioned from the house itself. You might find a local building performance contractor from the web site listed below or email me if you have no luck. Round vents are available from most insulation supply houses (J&R 800/343-4446, EFI 876-0660). best, -------------------------------------------------------- Frazer Dougherty doughf@mindspring.com North Fork Retrofit doughf@aol.com (fallback) website: http://www.home-performance.org -------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 13:36:19 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA05377 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA07057 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11239; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09639 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:23:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.11]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09621 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frazer (ip128.islip4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.250.128]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01756; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970921172347.006efcd8@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: doughf@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:23:47 -0400 To: jonwil@primenet.com, greenbuilding@crest.org From: Frazer Dougherty Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: ifo Cascade toilet Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 I have had two IFO Casades in my house for over a decade, they were bought from Resource Technology in Baltimore. I haven't heard from them in while, so I'm not sure they are still around. Let me know if you find a viable source. best, -------------------------------------------------------- Frazer Dougherty doughf@mindspring.com North Fork Retrofit doughf@aol.com (fallback) website: http://www.home-performance.org -------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 20:32:26 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA09223 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA12717 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA11029; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA08771 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:22:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mail.paltech.com (ns.paltech.com [198.69.130.3]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08767 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (ip20.dialup.paltech.com [198.69.130.39]) by mail.paltech.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36796U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA145 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:31:46 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970921202546.0071b40c@paltech.com> X-Sender: herector@paltech.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:25:46 -0400 To: From: Harry Rector Subject: Re: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? In-Reply-To: <19970921171557.AAB19577@itjfvkli> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 At 12:47 PM 9/21/97 -0500, Mary McDaniel wrote: >Does anyone have references or information on how to outgas a new 10 story >office building by heating it up to outgas or any other methods? Mary: One publication that comes to mind is a paper by John Girman that was published in Environment International (vol. 15, pages 449-453, 1989). There have been other things published since then. EPA may have something in the form of general guidance by now, and you should take a look at the proceedings of the big indoor air conference that's held every three years. ... Harry ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 21:42:20 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA09725 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA26364 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA02260; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA29133 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:29:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from glacier.binc.net (glacier.binc.net [205.173.176.10]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA29108 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.142.229.23] (mke-1-7.binc.net [208.142.229.23]) by glacier.binc.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA94928 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:31:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199709220131.UAA94928@glacier.binc.net> Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: ifo Cascade toilet Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 19:39:54 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Chris & Ruth Koehn To: "GB List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 We've had two Ifo Cascades in our home for 7 years. They work fine, but do require slightly more cleaning. More, ahem, how shall we say... skid marks? My plumber tells me the Ifo patent was purchased a few years ago by Mansfield, which is now owned by Kohler. I'm not so sure, as I have seen ads for Ifo since. Good 1.6 gal toilets are available from any plumbing supply co, since they are pretty much the law now. Chris Koehn Top Ridge ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 22:38:24 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA14064 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA09109 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21414; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA18257 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:25:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18144 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:25:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA23285; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:25:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3425D65E.A7213A4@cow-net.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:22:22 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary McDaniel CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19970921171557.AAB19577@itjfvkli> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 Mary McDaniel wrote: > > Does anyone have references or information on how to outgas a new 10 > story > office building by heating it up to outgas or any other methods? If your concerns are personal then I would suggest that your approach concentrate on that aspect i.e. boosting immunology, developing a work strategy that limits exposure (fresh air breaks, come in late monday mornings after the air system has been labouring for a while, etc.) You can also refine exposure in a personal work space by identifying air sources and creating additional filtration and conditioning. Pressurizing the space, etc. Building intensive efforts such as high heat could exacerbate the problem by destabilizing certain materials. Sounds risky. If your concern is with everyone working in the building (10 stories is a lot of occupants) then start now by working with the buildings designers to identify pollutant sources, potentials for exposure and exposure levels, air system design, etc., and start working to improve those conditions. Air system design is probably the most crucial aspect. Remember that simple things like initial exposure to a new computer system on a desk will probably far exceed any additional contaminants from the building and unless there is some air system that can be accelerated, very little can be done. Remember also that because a practice is labeled green it does not mean that it is acceptable. We recently had delivery of a european manuf. couch that is a labeled green and far exceeded any american standards - it instantly produced the full range of allergic reactions in two kids, two adults, one dog and one cat and only the cat is comfortable on it 3 weeks later and only out of desperation. Best John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Sun Sep 21 23:59:35 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA14802 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA25591 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20112; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA16321 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:48:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout21.mail.aol.com (emout21.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.126]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16276 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:48:39 -0400 (EDT) From: IAQKibbey@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout21.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA06976 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970921234934_576324327@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 In a message dated 9/21/97 10:20:01 AM, marmac1@worldnet.att.net wrote: >Does anyone have references or information on how to outgas a new 10 story >office building by heating it up to outgas or any other methods? Snip............................ I agree with John Salmen that there are dangers associated with heating up all the materials in a new building for the purposes of accelerating offgassing. You are unable to control synergistic chemical reactions, structural and other damage. John Girman's studies and others have shown that the type of "baking out" you are talking about is fraught with complications and problems. To accelerate offgassing, the building materials must be heated to a temperature (85 to 103 degrees F.) beyond their designed capacity and maintained at that temperature for a minimum of 72 hours (longer is more effective). Fresh air ventilation must be maintained simultaneous to the heating in order to exhaust the noxious offgassing. The balance between temperature, fresh air intake and stale air exhaust must be continuously monitored and the entire space must be professionally inspected 24 hours a day during the bakeout period. Windows can crack, drywall nails can pop out, doors can warp, adhesives can break down, laminates can separate, electronic or other equipment can be damaged, and warranties can be voided. Worst of all, the released destabilized chemicals and odors may be absorbed in fabrics, acoustic ceilings, or other absorbent surfaces--only to continue offgassing into the rooms for a long time into the future. Far better approach for indoor air quality is: 1- Source reduction. Eliminate as many toxic surfaces and furnishings as possible. 2 - Isolate compromise materials from the indoor space (air barriers, sealers, separate locations). 3 - Provide spot exhaust ventilation for problem equipment, such as computers, copiers, etc. and provide well-designed, controlled ventilation for the building. Utilize high quality filtration to neutralize foul air. As John Salmen said, the ventilation design is a most critical element. 4 - Flush the space with total fresh air, exhausting stale air, for as long as possible before occupancy. 5 - Run the HVAC system (with fresh air component and high quality filtration) for a period of time each day before occupying space. Maintain positive pressure in rooms. Monitor conditions and occupant health. 6 - If possible, provide operable windows for individual occupants. By the way, this is not an analysis or a prescription--it is just what comes to mind as a quick response to the query above. I think it is important to think very carefully before jumping to conclusions about the best "fix" for such a building. There is plenty of literature for further information. David Kibbey, Environmental Building Consultant 1618 Parker Street Berkeley, CA 94703 phone/fax: 510-841-1039 email: IAQKibbey@aol.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 00:25:42 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA15006 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA01100 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA12767; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA09245 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:24:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from usr05.primenet.com (usr05.primenet.com [206.165.6.205]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA09158 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from primenet.com (root@mailhost02.primenet.com [206.165.5.53]) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11608; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:26:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from preinstalledcom (ip225.prc.primenet.com [207.218.17.225]) by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA15079; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:26:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3425E56F.1DE5@primenet.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:26:39 -0700 From: John Reply-To: jonwil@primenet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris & Ruth Koehn CC: GB List Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: ifo Cascade toilet References: <199709220131.UAA94928@glacier.binc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 Dear Chris, Thanks for the Ifo review. I am aware that there are many makers of 1.6 gal low flush toilets, but the pull from the top system seems to have more flush power then I have seen on other low flush toilets. Do the Kohler low flush have this same mechanism? John Chris & Ruth Koehn wrote: > > We've had two Ifo Cascades in our home for 7 years. They work fine, but > do require slightly more cleaning. More, ahem, how shall we say... skid > marks? > > My plumber tells me the Ifo patent was purchased a few years ago by > Mansfield, which is now owned by Kohler. I'm not so sure, as I have seen > ads for Ifo since. Good 1.6 gal toilets are available from any plumbing > supply co, since they are pretty much the law now. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 02:38:17 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA16935 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA22028 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA04851; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA29828 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:27:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com (emout08.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.23]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA29821 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:27:27 -0400 (EDT) From: CrawfordPS@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id CAA05191 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970922022950_419944601@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Graduate schools offering Sustainable Design studies Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 Dear sirs, Could you please let me know how I can find out which architecture schools offer graduate programs in architecture, with an emphasis on Sustainable Design. I have spend hours on the internet, searching all kinds of sites, and have not been able to find any Universities that do serious research in this field. Surely, they have to be out there, I just can't find them. Sincerely, Paul -- email: CrawfordPS@aol.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 09:48:15 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA20756 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA29988 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12014; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA02631 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:29:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from kirkwood.hoosier.net (kirkwood.hoosier.net [206.106.64.12]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02568 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 206.106.67.46 (pm1-14.hoosier.net [206.106.67.46]) by kirkwood.hoosier.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA31138; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:31:10 -0500 Message-ID: <342672AC.52AF@bloomington.in.us> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:29:16 -0500 From: John Bower Organization: The Healthy House Institute X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary McDaniel CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? References: <19970921171557.AAB19577@itjfvkli> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 I've read a number of papers on building bake-outs and feel that it's one of those "too good to be true" approaches. At best, it seems to have a minimal effect, at worst, it causes damage and new IAQ problems. See an article in Science News, Vol. 136 #13 (Sept. 23, 1989), pg. 206. -- John Bower, The Healthy House Institute http://www.hhinst.com/ email: healthy@bloomington.in.us 430 N. Sewell Road, Bloomington, IN 47408 Phone/fax 812-332-5073 ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 11:11:50 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA21979 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA21941 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA12564; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA01082 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:53:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:53:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709221453.KAA01082@solstice.crest.org> X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f To: CrawfordPS@aol.com, greenbuilding@crest.org From: Mark DeKay Subject: GBlist: Graduate schools offering Sustainable Design Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 Paul: At Washington University in St. Louis, we offer several courses explicitly focusing on sustainable issues. Several studio faculty are also engaging the topic also. Our website is new this year and growing weekly. Check it out at: http://arch.wustl.edu . Click on "studios and courses" in the navigation bar. You will see a list of courses on the left, including, "Environment and Buildings," "Ecological Building Design Strategies," and "Urban and Landscape Ecology." Wash. U. is a private school, and although our tuitionis high, we offer great financial aid (as US news recently noted), making us "expensive but worth it," and " a great value." If you are looking for a public university, youcan not do better in the field than the University of Oregon. http://www-architecture.uoregon.edu/foyer You also may want to check out the Ecological Design Education Network: http://www.ecodesign.org/edi/eden/index.html regards, Mark DeKay ------------------------------------------ >Dear sirs, > >Could you please let me know how I can find out which architecture schools >offer graduate programs in architecture, with an emphasis on Sustainable >Design. Mark DeKay Assistant Professor of Architecture School of Architecture Washington University One Brookings Drive campus box 1079 St. Louis, MO 63130 USA dekay@arch.wustl.edu Office: 201 Givens Hall 314.935.6282, 314.935.8520 (fax) ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 11:25:00 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA22178 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA25612 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA16570; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA06414 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:11:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA06382 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:11:08 -0400 (EDT) From: healthyp@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA02897 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:13:32 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:13:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nyc-ny45-21.ix.netcom.com(199.183.41.149) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002866; Mon Sep 22 10:13:02 1997 To: greenbuilding@crest.org Message-Id: <1997922111915211478@ix.netcom.com> Subject: GBlist: GB list X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 I just received a phone call from a hospital asking if I knew of any companies that made environmentally safe window treatments. I would really appreciate any information, so that the hospital can finish remodeling in an environmentally safe manner. Thanks in advance. --Robyn Heller EcoSmart Healthy Properties, LLC ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 11:32:02 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA22280 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA27407 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA12424; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA01066 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:53:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from glacier.binc.net (glacier.binc.net [205.173.176.10]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00961 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.142.229.24] (mke-1-8.binc.net [208.142.229.24]) by glacier.binc.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA84352 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:55:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199709221455.JAA84352@glacier.binc.net> Subject: GBlist: water usage Date: Mon, 22 Sep 97 09:04:11 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Chris & Ruth Koehn To: "GB List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 Thanks to: Mark DeKay, James.Olivia, Richard Dean, Rob Watson, Elena Westbrook, Tom Anderson, Harry Rector, Jim Rogers, Alex Wilson, A Novelli, & Malcom Scott for their input on the residential water usage question. The General consensus seems to be that- it depends. Where you live seems to matter. Arid regions use more (up to 270 gal/person/day) while those living in Boston, where they have to pay more for their water, use substantially less. The average seems to be somewhere between 80 and 110 gallons per person per day. That's alot of water! Our household averages 100 gallons per day, for two adults and one young child (33 gal ea). Ithought maybe my meter was broke... until I read the Nat'l averages. We use 1.6 gal toilets, low flow shower heads (average 6 showers total per week), and an Asko washer. We don't water our yard at all. We collect rain water for our gardens. Sure seems tough to bring that number down! Chris Koehn ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 14:07:18 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA26113 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA08844 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA06373; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03315 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:53:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emin16.mail.aol.com (emout31.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.14]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA03307 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:53:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirbservc@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emin16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA22975 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970922135345_-1699541212@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Speaking of toilets Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 Speaking of toilets, has anyone had any experience with the Sloan Flushmate? Mike Kirby P.S. I am mainly a lurker but have been here for months and very much enjoy the conversations here! ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 14:41:10 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA26549 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA16879 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08925; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA05806 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:27:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from m20.boston.juno.com (m20.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.190]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA05802 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:27:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bandjf@juno.com) by m20.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id O^O02321; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:29:20 EDT To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Re: Insulation/ attic- crawlspace Message-ID: <19970922.142245.4567.5.BANDJF@juno.com> References: <19970920.125737.7503.0.BANDJF@juno.com> <34249C29.1E@chelmsford.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-10 From: bandjf@juno.com (J FESCO) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:29:20 EDT Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 119 On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:01:46 -0700 Jim Rogers writes: >The same companies that install the cellulose insulation (blow it in) >will probably also remove it. If their equipment can vacuum it out it >would be easiest. Let them keep it and maybe they will do it on the >cheap. > Hi Jim- Thanks for the suggestion- Beth ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 14:44:18 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA26596 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA17867 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09143; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA05990 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:30:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com (emout08.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.23]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA05951; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:30:03 -0400 (EDT) From: RCMathis1@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id OAA06184; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970922143058_1889579401@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org, ee-building@crest.org Subject: GBlist: the other side of scary window stories Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 Friends, In my search for window horror stories I have recently been reminded of "downstream" horrors/opportunities that may also arise when window performance decisions are not coupled with appropriate "whole house" perspective. I will share this abbreviated story with the list (the long version will be discussed at the EEBA conference) with the HOPES OF: 1) enlightenment coupled with humor 2) disgust at such "bad moves" 3) eliciting more stories along this line of thinking Regards, Chris Mathis MCSquared My buddy Steve buys a new house in Orlando. Typical single-glazed aluminum windows. Big air conditioner. Calls me up. "Chris, I can't USE half my house! South and west sides are just too hot!" What do I propose? (and remember the value of free advice....) "Hey Steve, do what everyone ELSE in Florida does.... call up the sun control film installer." Steve does. Calls back and says "THANKS. Works great. Windows are a little blue, but now I can use my whole house. And he only charged me $100 a window!" and now for "the rest of the story...." (and some perspective on such decisions) Steve's situation is not unusual. His builder installed $89 windows and about 7 tons of air conditioning (oversized anyway). Steve is happy because (ignorance is bliss) and he can now use his whole home. So, where is the horror story? 1. Steve got to MORTGAGE the $89 window at 7.25 % for 30 years. Complete with all the deductions implied. 2. Steve got to put an additional $100 each on his VISA at between 15% and 24%. Without deductions. 3. Steve's builder could have probably installed a $200 window for the same basic COST to Steve but with potentially dramatic BENEFITS (energy, comfort, UV protection, peak load reduction, glare, reduced temp swings, etc.) 4. Steve's builder installed an air conditioner that is now about 30% to 50% MORE oversized than it was! Which will now (a) short cycle MORE (b) not dehumidify properly (c) have shorter life (d) cost more to operate and (e) be noisier than necessary because of the similarly oversized fans.... 5. Steve gets to do it all again in 5 to 10 years.... (or whatever the life of the sun control film is....) or until his compressor blows up or until he has to replace IT with one more appropriately sized in the first place. Without a "whole house perspective" (by the builder when FIRST constructing and by Steve/me when "fixing") problems like these can arise. As you consider other "window horror stories" I would appreciate any other "whole house-related" ones that you might have. (door and skylight stories are also welcome:) Lesson # 2. All of you out there installing energy efficient windows, upgraded insulation, weatherization and improved HVAC packages, PLEASE look at the big picture. First costs aren't everything.... Chris ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 14:44:25 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA26610 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA18080 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09015; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:32:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA05840 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:28:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from m20.boston.juno.com (m20.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.190]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA05833 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bandjf@juno.com) by m20.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id O^N02321; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:29:20 EDT To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Re: Insulation/ attic- crawlspace Message-ID: <19970922.142244.4567.4.BANDJF@juno.com> References: <19970920.125737.7503.0.BANDJF@juno.com> <34252985.4E5C@bloomington.in.us> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5-20,36-37,47-67,73-91,96-97,105-106,112-113, 116-125,131-132,139,147-149 From: bandjf@juno.com (J FESCO) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:29:20 EDT Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 Hi John- I thank you very much for responding to my post. My husband and I spent Sunday afternoon- learning from your book-"The Healthy House', and certainly it answers a lot of questions for us. I do however want to respond to your note to me, as well as go into a bit more detail on why I asked the question in the first place. You wrote: Insulation is only a problem if it migrates from where it is located >(inside building cavities such as walls and attics, and crawl spaces) >to >where people are located (the living space). There are a variety of >ways >that such migration takes place. > >A low-tox insulation (such as AirKrete) can be quite costly, so I >usually recommend preventing the insulation from getting into the >living >space. The thinking is this: if the insulation stays out of the living >space, you aren't exposed, so it can't affect you. This is one of the things that concerns me. I had started noticing a problem when it started getting hot and humid here. The air coming through the ducts (central air- electric)- smelled like a cardboard/ wet paper/ sheetrock, type of smell. At first I thought somehow this "toxic" odor was coming from the garage- because with the garage doors closed, that is how it smells out there. It is an attached garage, Anything like cardboard boxes, or extra clutter has been removed and stored in a shed. There was a fairly new sheetrock wall ( I know) put up in there in the spring to divide the laundry room and air handler room form the rest of the garage. There is a door from the garage to the house where that laundry room is. No work has been done in that room- due to my sensitivities, except for my husband covering over the sheetrock wall with stainless steel- to help rid the area of some of that odor. The door to the house seems well sealed- we worked on that. At first we thought this smell was coming from the garage- but that was just too obvious. We have by the way, a stucco ranch, on a slab. We had a popcorn ceiling in the house that had been scraped off professionally, for other reasons, that I don't want to bother you with. So the ceilings in the house to the touch have a powdery residue, then just the sheetrock. Since I can't paint and live here, that situation remains. I am still trying to figure out alternatives to "sealing in" or protecting myself from that ceiling. We vacuumed the ceiling again, and my symptoms were better. So, many area of concern here. I'm trying to say, I don't know if I am really protected from the attic space, due to the ceiling situation for one, and I wanted to give you a better picture of the situation. In new construction, you can build a very tight house (don't forget >mechanical ventilation), and the insulation, no matter what kind it >is, >can't get into the living space. I've done this several times with >sensitive people with great success, even using insulation that would >be >bothersome if a sensitive person is exposed directly. > >In existing houses, you are limited as to how tight you can make a >house >simply because you can't get to all the leakage points. Yes, you can >often tighten a great deal, but you just can't get an existing house >as >tight as one you are building from scratch and tightening as you put >it >together. We covered around ceiling fans with foil tape, and any openings we could detect in any way. The air handler in the garage seems really tight, and the ductwork is all new metal, that was scrubbed clean of residue, that was done well, and wrapped at the seams with the foil tape. The is no insulation in the system - it's on the outside. I might not be explaining this well, hope it makes sense. >My suggestion in your situation is this: use a fan to blow air from >the >outdoors into the living space to pressurize the house. That way, air >will enter the living space via the fan, then it will leak out through >the structure, through building cavities, and toward the outdoors. >Thus >there will be no air (or pollutants) traveling from the >insulation-filled cavities into the living space, the air will be >moving >in the opposite direction. Please be advised that I would not make >this >same recommendation in a cold climate. You said you lived in a warm, >moist climate. Pressurization in a cold climate can lead to hidden >moisture problems. For more information see my book Understanding >Ventilation. Thank you so much. We did read that and more. We have gotten other advise as well about that fact that an "air-exchanger' would benefit me. You listed in your book 'Heat Recovery Ventilator"- I'm not sure if they are the same thing, but if I am understanding this correctly, they are the same principle. Since we live in a warm moist climate, we need an air exchange that will filter the air and dehumidify it before bringing it into the house. It would also have to be set up to have a manual on/off switch because at times the air is not desirable to bring in- for example- pesticides, or any chemical odors, My understanding is that these units exist, one type that is a separate unit that can be installed in any room, and the other type that can be installed in relation to working in conjunction with the air handler. I really need info on these air exchangers. I don't know anything more on them except one was mentioned to me called a 'Sahara"? . No one seems to know anything more. Is there a web site for locating, getting info on them and investigating them, or some places i could call? I'd really like to get going on this aspect at least- so I can hopefully start feeling better, and get some better quality air in here. In your book I saw the names of companies for the 'Heat Recovery Ventilator', but I don't know if I'm really dealing with the same thing as just an air exchanger. >Having said all that, in the majority of cases, sensitive people are >bothered by materials that are actually within the living space. >Things >such as carpet, cabinets, wall paneling, furnishings, cleaning >products, >etc., are more often the problem than someting going on in a building >cavity. Well, by now you know the ceiling is a problem.- It didn't "seem" to be such an immediate problem until it got hot and humid, and the air coming through the system got that smell. Could be I suppose, that I'm just recirculation this "bad air, and " with a ceiling like this It still doesn't change the fact that we feel the air exchange is necessary for me. I just want to mention, that a 'Pure Air' whole house filtration system was installed to the air handler- and all did seem well until the heat and humidity came. Whatever is happening it over rides the filtration system of the house. I'm sure I am being very inaccurate explaining this situation, but I'm doing the best I can with this. I also believe strongly that this positive' negative air flow is a very important factor as well. My husband and I are very appreciate of being "steered in the right direction" that can be provided for me, so I can feel better, and hopefully have some recovery. I'm supposing also that I need to hire an engineer about measuring this positive/negative air flow. I've taken up too much of your time already, but certainly wanted to respond, hopefully with more accuracy,, and give you a better picture of the situation, and why I asked the question in the first place. Any steering me in the right direction is much appreciate, I'm sure you know. Thanks Again, Beth ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 14:45:43 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA26629 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA18382 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09289; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA06109 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:34:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca (ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.244.11]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA06100 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA141590; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:22:16 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:22:16 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: healthyp@ix.netcom.com Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: environmental windows In-Reply-To: <1997922111915211478@ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 Robyn: In our applied research on environmental windows we chose wood windows. >From an indoor air quality perspective, we investigated the numerous treatments that such a window undergoes. Using our criteria,one of the most progressive manufacturer is Willmar Windows out of Winnipeg Manitoba in Canada.If interested, please let me know and I can get you contact information. _________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), environmental/architectural design, ecological planning, consulting on sustainable buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, workshops. 3 demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671 Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm e-mail: ______________________________________________________ On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 healthyp@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > I just received a phone call from a hospital asking if I knew of any companies > that made environmentally safe window treatments. I would really appreciate > any information, so that the hospital can finish remodeling in an > environmentally safe manner. Thanks in advance. > > --Robyn Heller > EcoSmart Healthy Properties, LLC > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 16:07:31 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA28608 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA08833 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:02:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA11678; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA08831 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:55:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from falcon.cc.ukans.edu (falcon.cc.ukans.edu [129.237.34.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08824 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kuts7p04.cc.ukans.edu by falcon.cc.ukans.edu (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/12Jan95-0207PM) id AA32370; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:57:03 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970922195916.006cfa34@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> X-Sender: dlambert@falcon.cc.ukans.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:59:16 -0500 To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" From: "David F. Lambertson" Subject: Re: GBlist: environmental windows Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 Jorg, Who do you think makes the best windows, from the double perspective of energy efficiency and getting your moneys worth? We are working on plans for a small 24'x30' cabin built on a shallow insulated slab with SIPs for walls and roof. The small second floor space is under the roof. I am wrestling with the windows and making a decision about the more expensive Anderson/Pella/Marvin brands versus less expensive Caradco which offer clad frames, low e glass and argon-filled space. The cabin will be heated quite efficiently with wood from our land and will be used only intermittently until we build our 'real' house which will be a super energy efficient passive solar structure. I want to install a large ratio of windows on the west side of the cabin where the forest view is spectacular but feel a bit dumb about doing it since I am also putting up tight SIPs. I read with interest all the window discussions including the information about much better European windows are than are ours or yours (I think). I would be grateful for opinions from you and from others on this list as well. thanks, Sacie Lambertson >Robyn: In our applied research on environmental windows we chose wood windows. >>From an indoor air quality perspective, we investigated the numerous treatments >that such a window undergoes. Using our criteria,one of the most progressive >manufacturer is Willmar Windows out of Winnipeg Manitoba in Canada.If interested, >please let me know and I can get you contact information. >_________________________________________________________ >Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect >- in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), > environmental/architectural design, ecological planning, consulting > on sustainable buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, workshops. > 3 demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors > - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office >ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671 >Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm >e-mail: >______________________________________________________ >On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 >healthyp@ix.netcom.com wrote: >> >> I just received a phone call from a hospital asking if I knew of any companies >> that made environmentally safe window treatments. I would really appreciate >> any information, so that the hospital can finish remodeling in an >> environmentally safe manner. Thanks in advance. >> >> --Robyn Heller >> EcoSmart Healthy Properties, LLC >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST >> Environmental Building News and Oikos >> For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> > >______________________________________________________________________ >This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST >Environmental Building News and Oikos >For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. >______________________________________________________________________ > > ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 16:54:24 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA29267 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA21168 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA12986; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA10386 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:44:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from ns.waonline.com (ns.waonline.com [208.192.52.129]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA10378 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from waonline.com (1Cust29.max3.new-york.ny.ms.uu.net [153.35.1.29]) by ns.waonline.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12232; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3426D7E4.1D2F818E@waonline.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:41:08 -0400 From: "Warren C. Liebold" Reply-To: wliebold@waonline.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris & Ruth Koehn CC: GB List Subject: Re: GBlist: water usage References: <199709221455.JAA84352@glacier.binc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 The American Water Works Association Research Foundation has been conducting an end use metering study of residential water use. Initial results can be found on the WaterWiser web page: http://www.waterwiser.org in the "Books" section. Warren Liebold wliebold@waonline.com -- Warren C. Liebold wliebold@waonline.com wliebold@pppmail.nyser.net Director of Conservation New York City Department of Environmental Protection ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 16:56:31 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA29291 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:56:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA21648 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:51:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA12800; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA10269 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:41:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from ns.waonline.com (ns.waonline.com [208.192.52.129]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA10263 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from waonline.com (1Cust29.max3.new-york.ny.ms.uu.net [153.35.1.29]) by ns.waonline.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12107; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3426D734.E47380D7@waonline.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:38:12 -0400 From: "Warren C. Liebold" Reply-To: wliebold@waonline.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kirbservc@aol.com CC: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: Speaking of toilets References: <970922135345_-1699541212@emout04.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 "Sloan Flushmate" is Sloan Valve's trade name for the internal parts of "pressurized-tank" toilets. Almost all toilet manufacturers have a pressurized-tank model in their line and Sloan manufactures most of the internals. Pressurized-tank toilets are more expensive than gravity-tank models ($200+), have a slightly noisier, but very short flush cycle, and will almost never clog. Their mass clearance performance is better than 3.5 gallon (13 litre) toilets since they maintain a large trapway. IMHO, preferred for light commercial installations and for large familities who have members who either tend to use large amounts of paper, or who are very young and enjoy playing "Power Ranger Action Toys Explore the Undersea World" in the family toilet. Warren Liebold wliebold@waonline.com -- Warren C. Liebold wliebold@waonline.com wliebold@pppmail.nyser.net Director of Conservation New York City Department of Environmental Protection ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 17:14:23 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA29556 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA25640 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:09:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA13310; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA11020 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:04:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from aec.ncsu.edu (pc513.aec.ncsu.edu [152.1.210.138]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA11014 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from IEL#u#MAIL-Message_Server by aec.ncsu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:08:40 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:08:24 -0400 From: Arnie Katz To: greenbuilding@crest.org, bandjf@juno.com Subject: GBlist: Re: Insulation/ attic- crawlspace -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 Given what you've described about your house, I highly recommend finding a competent diagnostician to figure out what's going on. Are the ducts really sealed? Since tape was used, the answer is probably not. Is duct leakage causing negative pressures in the house, causing air (along with contaminants) to be sucked in from the attic and/or garage? How tight is the house? How well sealed is the house from the attic? The Garage? An experienced person with a blower door, a duct blaster, a manometer, and some sense can probably figure out what's actually going on in a few hours, and possibly save you a bunch of money in terms of going down non-productive paths. Occasionally, this person might be an engineer, but experience, training, and having the right tools are much more important. I don't know any house docs in Dallas. Maybe someone else on this list does. Try your local utilities and weatherization program for leads. Arnie Katz Advanced Energy Raleigh, NC ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 18:02:47 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA00016 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA11927 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA14218; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA12373 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:46:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emin16.mail.aol.com (emout31.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.14]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12369 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:46:58 -0400 (EDT) From: CGrover77@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emin16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id RAA28751 for greenbuilding@crest.org; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970922171747_-1263974935@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Where to find bio-degradable silt fencing? Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 Does anyone have a source for a bio-degradable silt fence, preferably with wooden stakes attached? Recycled material would be a plus. We need to dredge the sediment pond, to restore it's capability to filter out sediment before the sediment reaches the lake. Need to contain the excavated sediment behind a retaining wall. Seeking wall material that consumes little space and will eventually biodegrade, after plants take over and stabilize the retaining wall into a pond bank. The material should be capable of holding back a two foot depth of excavated sediment. It should also enable us to insert plants through it, into the sediment, so they can take root. Ideally, the material would rot away after 2 years, and not hurt wildlife. I made a test wall using galvanized hog wire (2"X4" openings), and separately .. orange plastic 'tree protection area' fencing, both covered by burlap. Both work, but I'm concerned they won't age well. Any references on how to successfully build a biodegradeable retaining wall would also be appreciated. Thanks, Greg N. Smith ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 18:59:37 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA00635 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:59:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA24837 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA15499; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA13990 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:45:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13983 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from van-as-07b13.direct.ca [204.174.249.125] by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xDHGi-0007e3-00; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:47:53 -0700 From: "Richard Kadulski" To: Subject: GBlist: Questions on concrete sealant & vapor barriers for a below grade living space Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:20:10 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 128 > Joseph Charlson wrote: > > > > Questions on concrete sealant & vapor barriers for a below grade > > living space: > > I agree with John Salmen's comments in reply, but I would offer a couple of alternates, and another point to keep in mind, relating to insulation of the basement. > > If I was to create specifications for finishing that area I would: > - - excavate perimeter to footing > - - slope the footing (applying mortar or cement) > - - apply zypec to 8" above grade Unless there is a major hydrostatic water pressure from gourbnd water, if you opt to excavate on the exterior, then using a drainage material against the foundation wall would probably be easire to use and more efffective than a waterproofing compound such as Xypex. By waterproofing product I mean such as Drainclad (a rigid fibeglass board), PLaton damproofing membrane, or other similar mechanical systems. Check with local suppliers of insulated concrete forming systems for products they use. > - - drain rock and perimeter drainage at footing (do not tie gutter drains > into perimeter drainage) > - - apply foam insulation boards against exterior foundation walls from 2' > below I would strongly suggest that insulation should be applied full depth - wether inside or outside (depending on which is easier related to the specific construction issues). > grade to top of foundation wall (you can use stucco or zypec over the > foam) > - - use drainage board or backfill with gravel/sand > - - create a free draining path area around the house rather than > plantings > INTERIOR SPECIFICATIONS: the interior should now be dry and insulated > - - drywall can be directly laminated to the conc. walls but it would be > preferable to avoid paper faced and gypsum products - cleaning and > smoothing the exist conc. or going to a smooth stucco finish might be > preferable. Again, if fully insulated, the finish can be applied over foam insulation. > - - flooring (if you need to install an additional heat source you might > want to think of running radiant floor tubing to take advantage of the > existing mass and pour a 1.5" slab over and either colouring the conc. > or installing tile, etc. Again, as you are planning to make this a lving space, insulating the floor as well as installing a vapour/moisture barrier is important. Especially if you would consider putting in a radiant heating system, putting insulation under the floor should be considered a must. If headroom permits, you could put 2" rigid styrofoam over the existing floor, then a 2 1/2 to 3" slab that wouyld include radiant heating. > You should keep in mind that a major source of moisture in your basement, especially in the summer, may not necessarily be ground water working it's way inside, but rather outdoor air brought inside. Boston has a very humid summer environment, so the outdoor air brought inside into the cooler environment, such as a basement (especially an uninsulated one) will start to condense, especialy on the cold surfaces (i.e. thiose uninsulated ones in contact weith the ground). By sealing and insulating all the surfaces, you raise the surface temperature, thus reducing one problem element. You'll still have to deal with dehumidification in the summer (due to outdoor air coming inside) but it should be a smaller problem. And of course, you get a chance to have more useable living space year round. **************************************************************************** ********************* Richard Kadulski Architect 208 - 1280 Seynmour St. Vancouver BC V6B 3N9 Tel/fax: 604-689-1841 "Climate adapted, energy sensitive, sustainable and healthy design." Editor: Solplan Review: independent journal of energy conservation, building science & construction practice **************************************************************************** ******************** ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 19:23:03 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA01613 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA00125 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16015; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA14563 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:06:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14559 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA22320; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:06:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3426F944.2E04E76F@cow-net.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:03:32 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Kadulski , Joseph Charlson CC: "greenbuilding@crest.org" Subject: Re: GBlist: Questions on concrete sealant & vapor barriers for a below grade living space X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 129 I have to agree with Richard Kadulski in that it would be better to fully insulate the wall and using a drainage material is a good idea. Rockwool drainboard is readily available on the east coast and the rigid board fibres are coarser and less irritating that the glass (they use less formaldehyde as well). I still think (depending on the porosity of the exist. conc. and the moisture conditions that using a crystallization agent like zypec would be useful. I'm not sure about the necessity of insulating the slab (it depends on groundwater height - if 4-6' below slab then I can't see the requirement for the additional expense but then I tend to get kind of cheap sometimes as all my other details can get kind of expensive. It is a good point about the summer humidity and that should add to the considerations about choices of materials - its been a while since I lived on the east coast and I do seem to remember an especially moldy basement apartment. John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 19:25:46 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA01643 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA00796 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16213; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA14829 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:13:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from falcon.cc.ukans.edu (falcon.cc.ukans.edu [129.237.34.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14825 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kuts17p12.cc.ukans.edu by falcon.cc.ukans.edu (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/12Jan95-0207PM) id AA19610; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:15:14 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970922231726.006b8718@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> X-Sender: dlambert@falcon.cc.ukans.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:17:26 -0500 To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" From: "David F. Lambertson" Subject: Re: GBlist: environmental windows Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 Jorg, Re my question on the best windows for our situation I forgot to mention that the west facing windows will be shaded by trees during the summer, so a shading coefficient is not a big factor. Thanks, Sacie Lambertson ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 20:46:40 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA04635 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA17949 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA17794; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA17073 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:34:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.44]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA17067 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:34:06 -0400 (EDT) From: RCMathis1@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA19704; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970922203513_1822791719@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: dlambert@falcon.cc.ukans.edu, greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: the "best windows" and other mysteries.... Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 Sacie asked: << Jorg, Who do you think makes the best windows, from the double perspective of energy efficiency and getting your money's worth?... >> and in a later post mentioned: <> Ah, the problems and challenges of a beautiful west-facing view. Sacie, where are you and is summer cooling/dehumidifcation a big concern? (sorry for the previous partial send) "Tree shading" can be a successful compliment to protecting a western view from unwanted heat gain in the summer. BUT, a few provisos. Latitude still plays a role on the amount of solar gain hitting the windows in the afternoon. Tree selection and effective shading (%) should be carefully considered. Take heart! There are many new glazing systems out there that have fairly LOW solar heat gain coefficients while still maintaining HIGH visible transmittance. I highly recommend looking at them if you have a great western view and alot of unwanted incident solar radiation. (by the way, this is even more critical when hoping to USE that western solar gain in the winters without overheating.) and regarding those "superior" European windows. In general, European windows are "built to last" in part because housing is often being paid for over three generations! Many US (and Canadian) windows are also "built to last" but with a different perspective on longevity. I DO NOT recommend "throw away" windows. They are NOT commodity products and should last as long as the building! (OR, am I mistaken, are we now building throw away buildings?.... subject for another time....) Windows should last for 20, 50 or 100 years, depending on YOUR needs and expectations for performance and reliability. The three companies you mentioned (Andersen/Pella/ Marvin) have been around for nearly 100 years. An accident? Whether you buy a "name brand" or not, remember to look closely at the warranty and whether the company will be around if and when you need them. Good luck in your search. Keep us posted on the passive solar project! Chris Mathis MCSquared ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 22:55:48 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA08882 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA16810 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21906; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA20464 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:45:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from hevanet.com (hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA20458 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.77] (li-ppp12.hevanet.com [204.119.60.177]) by hevanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26593 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970922203513_1822791719@emout18.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: "Mike O'Brien" Subject: GBlist: the "best windows" and other mysteries.... Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 Hi, all-- Second Chris' point about warranties on windows. The first time I ever saw one of the window brands mentioned in a previous post installed here in Oregon, the general contractor reported that they leaked wind-blown rain. He was planning to take them out of the house and return them to the factory. I'm not picking on anyone, just reinforcing the need for good warranties--surprises happen, even with good brands. Best, Mike O'Brien & Associates Environmental Building Consultants Portland General Electric Earth Smart program obrien@hevanet.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 22:56:22 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA08892 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA17006 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21851; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA20482 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:45:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from hevanet.com (hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA20477 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.77] (li-ppp12.hevanet.com [204.119.60.177]) by hevanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26615 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970922.142244.4567.4.BANDJF@juno.com> References: <19970920.125737.7503.0.BANDJF@juno.com> <34252985.4E5C@bloomington.in.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: "Mike O'Brien" Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: Insulation/ attic- crawlspace Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 Hello, Beth-- For once I'm going to beat Bruce Sullivan to the punch and tell you that the Sahara is made by DEC International, Inc. Therma-Stor Products Group in Madison Wisconsin. Their phone number is 1-800-533-7533. While we have not seen a Sahara installed here in Portland, our experience with other DEC products and their product engineers has been excellent. John Bower will probably have some insights into the smell you described, but I wondered if you had mentioned whether you have air conditioning? If so, what happens to the water that condenses on the air conditioning coil? Is it possible there is a back-up in the drip pan or drain hose that would allow algae or mold to grow, or to wet the drywall or insulation? Best, Mike >Hi John- > I thank you very much for responding to my post. My husband and I >spent Sunday afternoon- learning from your book-"The Healthy House', and >certainly it answers a lot of questions for us. I do however want to >respond to your note to me, as well as go into a bit more detail on why I >asked the question in the first place. > >You wrote: >Insulation is only a problem if it migrates from where it is located >>(inside building cavities such as walls and attics, and crawl spaces) >>to >>where people are located (the living space). There are a variety of >>ways >>that such migration takes place. >> >>A low-tox insulation (such as AirKrete) can be quite costly, so I >>usually recommend preventing the insulation from getting into the >>living >>space. The thinking is this: if the insulation stays out of the living >>space, you aren't exposed, so it can't affect you. > >This is one of the things that concerns me. I had started noticing a >problem when it started getting hot and humid here. The air coming >through the ducts (central air- electric)- smelled like a cardboard/ wet >paper/ sheetrock, type of smell. At first I thought somehow this "toxic" >odor was coming from the garage- because with the garage doors closed, >that is how it smells out there. It is an attached garage, Anything like >cardboard boxes, or extra clutter has been removed and stored in a shed. >There was a fairly new sheetrock wall ( I know) put up in there in the >spring to divide the laundry room and air handler room form the rest of >the garage. There is a door from the garage to the house where that >laundry room is. No work has been done in that room- due to my >sensitivities, except for my husband covering over the sheetrock wall >with stainless steel- to help rid the area of some of that odor. The >door to the house seems well sealed- we worked on that. At first we >thought this smell was coming from the garage- but that was just too >obvious. We have by the way, a stucco ranch, on a slab. > >We had a popcorn ceiling in the house that had been scraped off >professionally, for other reasons, that I don't want to bother you with. >So the ceilings in the house to the touch have a powdery residue, then >just the sheetrock. Since I can't paint and live here, that situation >remains. I am still trying to figure out alternatives to "sealing in" or >protecting myself from that ceiling. We vacuumed the ceiling again, and >my symptoms were better. So, many area of concern here. I'm trying to >say, I don't know if I am really protected from the attic space, due to >the ceiling situation for one, and I wanted to give you a better picture >of the situation. > > >In new construction, you can build a very tight house (don't forget >>mechanical ventilation), and the insulation, no matter what kind it >>is, >>can't get into the living space. I've done this several times with >>sensitive people with great success, even using insulation that would >>be >>bothersome if a sensitive person is exposed directly. >> >>In existing houses, you are limited as to how tight you can make a >>house >>simply because you can't get to all the leakage points. Yes, you can >>often tighten a great deal, but you just can't get an existing house >>as >>tight as one you are building from scratch and tightening as you put >>it >>together. > > >We covered around ceiling fans with foil tape, and any openings we could >detect in any way. The air handler in the garage seems really tight, >and the ductwork is all new metal, that was scrubbed clean of residue, >that was done well, and wrapped at the seams with the foil tape. The is >no insulation in the system - it's on the outside. I might not be >explaining this well, hope it makes sense. > >>My suggestion in your situation is this: use a fan to blow air from >>the >>outdoors into the living space to pressurize the house. That way, air >>will enter the living space via the fan, then it will leak out through >>the structure, through building cavities, and toward the outdoors. >>Thus >>there will be no air (or pollutants) traveling from the >>insulation-filled cavities into the living space, the air will be >>moving >>in the opposite direction. Please be advised that I would not make >>this >>same recommendation in a cold climate. You said you lived in a warm, >>moist climate. Pressurization in a cold climate can lead to hidden >>moisture problems. For more information see my book Understanding >>Ventilation. > > >Thank you so much. We did read that and more. We have gotten other >advise as well about that fact that an "air-exchanger' would benefit me. >You listed in your book 'Heat Recovery Ventilator"- I'm not sure if they >are the same thing, but if I am understanding this correctly, they are >the same principle. > >Since we live in a warm moist climate, we need an air exchange that will >filter the air and dehumidify it before bringing it into the house. It >would also have to be set up to have a manual on/off switch because at >times the air is not desirable to bring in- for example- pesticides, or >any chemical odors, My understanding is that these units exist, one >type that is a separate unit that can be installed in any room, and the >other type that can be installed in relation to working in conjunction >with the air handler. > >I really need info on these air exchangers. I don't know anything more on >them except one was mentioned to me called a 'Sahara"? . No one seems to >know anything more. Is there a web site for locating, getting info on >them and investigating them, or some places i could call? I'd really >like to get going on this aspect at least- so I can hopefully start >feeling better, and get some better quality air in here. > >In your book I saw the names of companies for the 'Heat Recovery >Ventilator', but I don't know if I'm really dealing with the same thing >as just an air exchanger. > >>Having said all that, in the majority of cases, sensitive people are >>bothered by materials that are actually within the living space. >>Things >>such as carpet, cabinets, wall paneling, furnishings, cleaning >>products, >>etc., are more often the problem than someting going on in a building >>cavity. > >Well, by now you know the ceiling is a problem.- It didn't "seem" to be >such an immediate problem until it got hot and humid, and the air coming >through the system got that smell. Could be I suppose, that I'm just >recirculation this "bad air, and " with a ceiling like this It still >doesn't change the fact that we feel the air exchange is necessary for >me. > > I just want to mention, that a 'Pure Air' whole house filtration system >was installed to the air handler- and all did seem well until the heat >and humidity came. Whatever is happening it over rides the filtration >system of the house. I'm sure I am being very inaccurate explaining this >situation, but I'm doing the best I can with this. I also believe >strongly that this positive' negative air flow is a very important factor >as well. >My husband and I are very appreciate of being "steered in the right >direction" that can be provided for me, so I can feel better, and >hopefully have some recovery. I'm supposing also that I need to hire an >engineer about measuring this positive/negative air flow. I've taken up >too much of your time already, but certainly wanted to respond, >hopefully with more accuracy,, and give you a better picture of the >situation, and why I asked the question in the first place. Any steering >me in the right direction is much appreciate, I'm sure you know. > >Thanks Again, Beth >______________________________________________________________________ >This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST >Environmental Building News and Oikos >For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. >______________________________________________________________________ O'Brien & Associates Environmental Building Consultants Portland General Electric Earth Smart program obrien@hevanet.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 22:57:52 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA08920 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA17382 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21978; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA20472 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:45:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from hevanet.com (hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA20467 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.77] (li-ppp12.hevanet.com [204.119.60.177]) by hevanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26605 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970922171747_-1263974935@emout05.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: "Mike O'Brien" Subject: Re: GBlist: Where to find bio-degradable silt fencing? Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 Hi, Greg-- Would one of the "geo-fabrics" work for you? These are meshes made of biodegradable materials that lay over the soil and prevent it from being eroded by heavy rains. Plants can be seeded or installed through the fabric. They are widely used by highway departments, developers, commercial landscape contractors, city agencies, etc. here in Portland. We can also get "bio-bags, which are mesh bags filled with wood chips. The bags hold the soil and eventually the mesh decomposes and the wood "mulch" remains. These seem to work better than the poly fences. Best, Mike >Does anyone have a source for a bio-degradable silt fence, preferably with >wooden >stakes attached? Recycled material would be a plus. > >We need to dredge the sediment pond, to restore it's capability to filter >out sediment >before the sediment reaches the lake. Need to contain the excavated sediment >behind >a retaining wall. Seeking wall material that consumes little space and will >eventually >biodegrade, after plants take over and stabilize the retaining wall into >a pond bank. > > >The material should be capable of holding back a two foot depth of excavated >sediment. > It should also enable us to insert plants through it, into the sediment, >so they >can take root. Ideally, the material >would rot away after 2 years, and not hurt wildlife. > >I made a test wall using galvanized hog wire (2"X4" openings), and separately >.. >orange plastic 'tree protection area' fencing, both covered by burlap. Both >work, >but I'm concerned they won't age well. > >Any references on how to successfully build a biodegradeable retaining wall >would >also be appreciated. > >Thanks, >Greg N. Smith >______________________________________________________________________ >This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST >Environmental Building News and Oikos >For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. >______________________________________________________________________ O'Brien & Associates Environmental Building Consultants Portland General Electric Earth Smart program obrien@hevanet.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 22:58:13 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA08941 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA17446 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21996; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA20489 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:45:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from hevanet.com (hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA20484 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.77] (li-ppp12.hevanet.com [204.119.60.177]) by hevanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26637 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970922143058_1889579401@emout08.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: "Mike O'Brien" Subject: Re: GBlist: the other side of scary window stories Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 Hi, Chris-- Well...Florida...isn't that where all those roofs blew off in the hurricane because they were never actually nailed on? AND they passed field inspection? Smug in Oregon >Friends, >In my search for window horror stories I have recently been reminded of >"downstream" horrors/opportunities that may also arise when window >performance decisions are not coupled with appropriate "whole house" > perspective. I will share this abbreviated story with the list (the long >version will be discussed at the EEBA conference) with the HOPES OF: >1) enlightenment coupled with humor >2) disgust at such "bad moves" >3) eliciting more stories along this line of thinking >Regards, >Chris Mathis >MCSquared > >My buddy Steve buys a new house in Orlando. Typical single-glazed aluminum >windows. Big air conditioner. Calls me up. "Chris, I can't USE half my >house! South and west sides are just too hot!" What do I propose? (and >remember the value of free advice....) "Hey Steve, do what everyone ELSE in >Florida does.... call up the sun control film installer." Steve does. Calls >back and says "THANKS. Works great. Windows are a little blue, but now I >can use my whole house. And he only charged me $100 a window!" > >and now for "the rest of the story...." (and some perspective on such >decisions) > >Steve's situation is not unusual. His builder installed $89 windows and >about 7 tons of air conditioning (oversized anyway). Steve is happy because >(ignorance is bliss) and he can now use his whole home. So, where is the >horror story? >1. Steve got to MORTGAGE the $89 window at 7.25 % for 30 years. Complete >with all the deductions implied. >2. Steve got to put an additional $100 each on his VISA at between 15% and >24%. Without deductions. >3. Steve's builder could have probably installed a $200 window for the same >basic COST to Steve but with potentially dramatic BENEFITS (energy, comfort, >UV protection, peak load reduction, glare, reduced temp swings, etc.) >4. Steve's builder installed an air conditioner that is now about 30% to 50% >MORE oversized than it was! Which will now (a) short cycle MORE (b) not >dehumidify properly (c) have shorter life (d) cost more to operate and (e) be >noisier than necessary because of the similarly oversized fans.... >5. Steve gets to do it all again in 5 to 10 years.... (or whatever the life >of the sun control film is....) or until his compressor blows up or until he >has to replace IT with one more appropriately sized in the first place. > >Without a "whole house perspective" (by the builder when FIRST constructing >and by Steve/me when "fixing") problems like these can arise. > >As you consider other "window horror stories" I would appreciate any other >"whole house-related" ones that you might have. (door and skylight stories >are also welcome:) > >Lesson # 2. All of you out there installing energy efficient windows, >upgraded insulation, weatherization and improved HVAC packages, PLEASE look >at the big picture. First costs aren't everything.... >Chris > > >______________________________________________________________________ >This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST >Environmental Building News and Oikos >For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. >______________________________________________________________________ O'Brien & Associates Environmental Building Consultants Portland General Electric Earth Smart program obrien@hevanet.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Mon Sep 22 23:35:42 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA09358 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA25161 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA22577; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA21334 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:26:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca (ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.244.11]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA21327 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA28100; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:26:11 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:26:10 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: "David F. Lambertson" Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: environmental windows In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970922195916.006cfa34@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 Sacie: Anderson is a very progressive company in the US, Willmar in Canada. The most progressive technology, the most superior windows and the best education/promotional literature are all from Willmar.They are also very cost-effective in our experience over many years. We have used Pella but do not want a Cadillac when a Honda (mine has 444,4000 Km. with no major repair) is superior. Marvin is good and less expensive than Anderson. Anderson windows are often very difficult to justify re: cost, but the quality is there. DECIDE ON WINDOW SIZES, LIST THEM DOWN, FAX THEM TO 3-5 LOCAL SUPPLIERS AND ASK FOR PRICE QUOTE. Then set appointments with the 3 best quotes that balance price and performance.Then work things out with your cooperative salesperson. My main criteria for windows include (in no particular order): 1) local availability/manufacture, 2) renewable not petroleum-based materials, 3) least embodied energy content/pollution before, during and after manufacture 4) low maintainance, 5) comfort (u or R-value, low E surfaces, type of gas), 6) enlightened/educational company literature 7) progressive environmental action by the company, 8) replacement costs (esp. being a cottage), 9) warantee, 10) service record (do they promptly replace windows under warantee, 11) shading coeficient (daylight) 12) solar heat gain coefficient (passive solar input) 13) white sash 14) UV protection 15) weight (for upper windows, no large triple windows) 16) attitude of salespeople (cooperative vs armtwisting) 17) energy rating 18) etc. Windows for different rooms have different purposes. Use air between the panes in the airlock. For a primary residence I would investigate R-5.2-6.3 for the south windows (1 low E + krypton), higher insulation value for the bathroom (comfort-naked people, moisture-condensation). Don't forget about 60% of total window heat loss is radiant, so make sure you address this issue.That is all the free consulting for today.I hope this helps. _________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), environmental/architectural design, ecological planning, consulting on sustainable buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, workshops. 3 demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671 Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm e-mail: ______________________________________________________ On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, David F. Lambertson wrote: > > Jorg, > Who do you think makes the best windows, from the double perspective > of energy efficiency and getting your moneys worth? We are working on plans > for a small 24'x30' cabin built on a shallow insulated slab with SIPs for > walls and roof. The small second floor space is under the roof. I am > wrestling with the windows and making a decision about the more expensive > Anderson/Pella/Marvin brands versus less expensive Caradco which offer clad > frames, low e glass and argon-filled space. The cabin will be heated quite > efficiently with wood from our land and will be used only intermittently > until we build our 'real' house which will be a super energy efficient > passive solar structure. I want to install a large ratio of windows on the > west side of the cabin where the forest view is spectacular but feel a bit > dumb about doing it since I am also putting up tight SIPs. I read with > interest all the window discussions including the information about much > better European windows are than are ours or yours (I think). > I would be grateful for opinions from you and from others on this > list as well. > thanks, Sacie Lambertson > > > > > > >Robyn: In our applied research on environmental windows we chose wood windows. > >>From an indoor air quality perspective, we investigated the numerous > treatments > >that such a window undergoes. Using our criteria,one of the most progressive > >manufacturer is Willmar Windows out of Winnipeg Manitoba in Canada.If > interested, > >please let me know and I can get you contact information. > >_________________________________________________________ > >Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect > >- in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), > > environmental/architectural design, ecological planning, consulting > > on sustainable buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, workshops. > > 3 demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors > > - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office > >ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671 > >Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm > >e-mail: > >______________________________________________________ > >On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 > >healthyp@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >> > >> I just received a phone call from a hospital asking if I knew of any > companies > >> that made environmentally safe window treatments. I would really appreciate > >> any information, so that the hospital can finish remodeling in an > >> environmentally safe manner. Thanks in advance. > >> > >> --Robyn Heller > >> EcoSmart Healthy Properties, LLC > >> > >> ______________________________________________________________________ > >> This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > >> Environmental Building News and Oikos > >> For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > >> ______________________________________________________________________ > >> > > > >______________________________________________________________________ > >This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > >Environmental Building News and Oikos > >For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > >______________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 00:52:06 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.iupac.org [152.2.254.86]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA11679 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA09445 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA23769; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA22693 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:43:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from november.diac.com (diac.com [209.64.40.2]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA22689 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p163.ts1.diac.com (p163.ts1.diac.com [209.64.42.163]) by november.diac.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA11655 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 04:51:32 GMT Received: by p163.ts1.diac.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCC7A9.EBACC4A0@p163.ts1.diac.com>; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:50:27 -0600 Message-ID: <01BCC7A9.EBACC4A0@p163.ts1.diac.com> From: Gary Dean Gray To: "'greenbuilding@crest.org'" Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:50:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id AAA11679 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 .... I want to install a large ratio of windows on the west side of the cabin where the forest view is spectacular but feel a bit dumb about doing it since I am also putting up tight SIPs. ... thanks, Sacie Lambertson :Just in case BUDGET and SOLAR GEOMETRY need a little bolstering, lets not forget Chris Alexander... ##################### Zen View ################## "... how should we make the most of a view? It turns out that the pattern which anwsers this question helps to govern not the rooms and windows in a building, but the places of transition. " *** "The archetypal zen view occurs in a famous Japanese house, which gives the pattern its name. A Buddist monk lived high in the mountains, in a small stone house. Far, far in the distance was the ocean, visible and beautiful in the mountains. But it was not visible from the monk's house itself, nor from the approach road to the house. However, in front of the house there stood a courtyard surrounded by a thick stone wall. As one came to the house, one passed through a gate into this court, and then diagonally across the court to the front door of the house. On the far side of the courtyard there was a slit in the wall, narrow and diagonal, cut throught the thickness of the wall. As a person walked accross the court, at one spot, where his position lined up with the slit in the wall, for an instant, he could see the ocean. And then he was past it once again, and went into the house. What happens in this courtyard? The view of the distant sea is so restrained that it stays alive forever. Who, that has ever seen that view, can ever forget it? Its power will never fade. Even for the man who lives there, coming past that view day after day for fifty years, it will still be alive. This is the essence of the problem with any view. It is a beautiful thing. One wants to enjoy it and drink it in every day. But the more open it is, the more obvious, the more it shouts, the sooner it will ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 01:04:59 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id BAA11818 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:04:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id BAA12097 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA24003; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA22923 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:56:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from bossie.cow-net.com (bossie.cow-net.com [207.107.185.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA22919 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:56:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jacob by bossie.cow-net.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA01523; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:56:18 -0700 Message-ID: <34274B4C.5BD80E7F@cow-net.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:53:32 -0700 From: John Salmen Organization: TERRAIN E.D.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" CC: healthyp@ix.netcom.com, greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: environmental windows X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 138 Willmar makes a wood (hemlock) window with an aluminum exterior cladding. I'm not sure about their choice of base material as it would be primarily old growth from west coast forest and does not perform well with excessive moisture and does not have the same insulative cell structure as pine which most other manuf. use - however like other manuf. of alum. clad windows their wood stock is soaked in both a fungicide and insecticide (essentially dursban). Unlike other manuf. they are willing to eliminate this treatment on an order - however they will void warranties. The question remains as to the function of the treatment and what happens to the wood under the aluminum that necessitates such treatment. In other words a fungicide/pesticide treatment will maintain the existence of the wood under aluminum for the period of the warranty. In other words the wood rots under the aluminum. I think it is a poor design concept the life of which is marginally extended through the use of chemicals - not a bad analogy for contemporary medicine (couldn't resist). I'm not sure about the use of wood windows for a commercial/instituational purpose primarily because of the maintenance issues involved and the fact that there is so little control over the usage maintenance materials (finishes, cleaners, etc.) A commercial steel window with an appropriate finish might be the least environmentally destructive and most healthy finish for patients to live with in the long term. John Salmen TERRAIN E.D.S. Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote: > > Robyn: In our applied research on environmental windows we chose wood > windows. > >From an indoor air quality perspective, we investigated the numerous > treatments > that such a window undergoes. Using our criteria,one of the most > progressive > manufacturer is Willmar Windows out of Winnipeg Manitoba in Canada.If > interested, > please let me know and I can get you contact information. > _________________________________________________________ > Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect > - in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since > 1978), > environmental/architectural design, ecological planning, > consulting > on sustainable buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, > workshops. > 3 demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors > - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and > office > ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671 > Web Site [under construction]: > http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm > e-mail: > ______________________________________________________ > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 > healthyp@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > > I just received a phone call from a hospital asking if I knew of any > companies > > that made environmentally safe window treatments. I would really > appreciate > > any information, so that the hospital can finish remodeling in an > > environmentally safe manner. Thanks in advance. > > > > --Robyn Heller > > EcoSmart Healthy Properties, LLC > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > > Environmental Building News and Oikos > > > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 09:48:08 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.exploris.org [152.2.254.85]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA16491 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA28735 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01418; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA29074 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:31:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca (ds11.acs.ucalgary.ca [136.159.244.11]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29070 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:31:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA126254; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:30:24 -0600 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:30:23 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: John Salmen Cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: Re: GBlist: environmental windows In-Reply-To: <34274B4C.5BD80E7F@cow-net.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 139 John: Sorry, we avoid the use of aluminum at ALL POSSIBLE cost due to its caustic effect on the environment during manufacturing.Instead we use Willguard prepainted finish that gives a 10-12 year waranty against maintenance. We have investigated the specific fungicides used to preserve the wood, amounts used, outgassing characteristics and their effect on health and have determined this is NOT to be a serious issue. If we were to wait for the perfect world, no project would be built or nothing would get done. This applies to every concept, feature, idea, product, specification and person. ___________________________________________________________________________ On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, John Salmen wrote: > > Willmar makes a wood (hemlock) window with an aluminum exterior > cladding. I'm not sure about their choice of base material as it would > be primarily old growth from west coast forest and does not perform well > with excessive moisture and does not have the same insulative cell > structure as pine which most other manuf. use - however like other > manuf. of alum. clad windows their wood stock is soaked in both a > fungicide and insecticide (essentially dursban). Unlike other manuf. > they are willing to eliminate this treatment on an order - however they > will void warranties. The question remains as to the function of the > treatment and what happens to the wood under the aluminum that > necessitates such treatment. In other words a fungicide/pesticide > treatment will maintain the existence of the wood under aluminum for the > period of the warranty. In other words the wood rots under the aluminum. > I think it is a poor design concept the life of which is marginally > extended through the use of chemicals - not a bad analogy for > contemporary medicine (couldn't resist). > I'm not sure about the use of wood windows for a > commercial/instituational purpose primarily because of the maintenance > issues involved and the fact that there is so little control over the > usage maintenance materials (finishes, cleaners, etc.) A commercial > steel window with an appropriate finish might be the least > environmentally destructive and most healthy finish for patients to live > with in the long term. > > John Salmen > TERRAIN E.D.S. > > Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote: > > > > Robyn: In our applied research on environmental windows we chose wood > > windows. > > >From an indoor air quality perspective, we investigated the numerous > > treatments > > that such a window undergoes. Using our criteria,one of the most > > progressive > > manufacturer is Willmar Windows out of Winnipeg Manitoba in Canada.If > > interested, > > please let me know and I can get you contact information. > > _________________________________________________________ > > Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect > > - in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since > > 1978), > > environmental/architectural design, ecological planning, > > consulting > > on sustainable buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, > > workshops. > > 3 demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors > > - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and > > office > > ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671 > > Web Site [under construction]: > > http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm > > e-mail: > > ______________________________________________________ > > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 > > healthyp@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > > > > I just received a phone call from a hospital asking if I knew of any > > companies > > > that made environmentally safe window treatments. I would really > > appreciate > > > any information, so that the hospital can finish remodeling in an > > > environmentally safe manner. Thanks in advance. > > > > > > --Robyn Heller > > > EcoSmart Healthy Properties, LLC > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > > > Environmental Building News and Oikos > > > > > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > > Environmental Building News and Oikos > > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________________ > This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST > Environmental Building News and Oikos > For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 12:07:07 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA19563 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA04651 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03639; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA02798 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:53:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from glacier.binc.net (glacier.binc.net [205.173.176.10]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA02794 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.142.229.18] (mke-1-2.binc.net [208.142.229.18]) by glacier.binc.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA88786 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:56:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199709231556.KAA88786@glacier.binc.net> Subject: Re: GBlist: environmental windows Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 10:04:43 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Chris & Ruth Koehn To: "GB List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 140 Jorg, et al, Having worked on Pella clad windows since their inception (25+ years old) , I can tell you that I have never seen evidence of rot developing behind the cladding. Having worked on Pella wood (Pella uses Ponderosa Pine) windows as old as 50 years, I can tell you that if the paint is allowed to fail, the window will rot. I can totally appreciate your sentiments about aluminum. Just be sure to pass on to the clients the realities of paint maintenance. Chris Koehn Top Ridge ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 12:28:56 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA20638 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA10410 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:24:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04240; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:21:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03709 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:16:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com (emout09.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.24]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03705 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:16:50 -0400 (EDT) From: MHillLEDA@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA21387; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970923121644_-1866739992@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: crkoehn@mailbag.com cc: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: Re: water usage Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 141 In a message dated 22/09/97 14:59:19, Chris wrote: << The average seems to be somewhere between 80 and 110 gallons per person per day. That's alot of water! >> By way of comparison, the average use in England is around 150lts/person/day, which is 39.6 US gallons (conversion factor 3.785lts a gallon). There are obviously a lot of eco-friendly people using a lot less than that - one house I'm aware of that's running off rainwater is down to about 10 galls / person / day. What are you doing with the stuff ?? I don't think we're inherently smellier people walking around in dirtier clothes over here ( no replies on this please!). The maximum w.c. flush in England is now 7.5lts (2galls), and there's pressure to allow use of cisterns with less than 1gall flush ( used sucessfully in Scandinavia). The latest washing machines (good ones) use about 55lts (14.5galls) for a full wash cycle. Matthew Hill Leeds Environmental Design Associates ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 12:51:04 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (www.gigabit-ethernet.org [152.2.254.82]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA20892 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA15884 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04826; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA04449 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:39:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mail.topher.net (mail.topher.net [206.136.138.6]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04437 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns1.topher.net (ppp15.topher.net [206.136.138.174]) by mail.topher.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA05505; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:31:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:31:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199709231631.LAA05505@mail.topher.net> X-Sender: ewestbrook@mail.topher.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: MHillLEDA@aol.com, greenbuilding@crest.org From: ewestbrook Subject: Re: GBlist: Re: water usage Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 142 At 12:19 PM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 22/09/97 14:59:19, Chris wrote: > ><< The average seems to be somewhere between 80 and 110 gallons per person > per day. That's alot of water! > >> and Matthew Hill replied: >By way of comparison, the average use in England is around 150lts/person/day, >which is 39.6 US gallons (conversion factor 3.785lts a gallon). >What are you doing with the stuff ?? >The latest washing machines (good ones) use about 55lts (14.5galls) for a >full wash cycle. > A few factors we should remember: 1. Municipal average gpcd figures include nonresidential uses -- commercial, industrial, system losses, etc. If I'm remembering correctly, most of those ~100 gpcd figures were based on these total uses. If UK figures are based on actual household use, let's compare apples to apples: the two households who gave actual numbers to this list were both using about 33 US gallons per day per person. (Granted, we're all relatively "green" here, but still.) 2. I could be way off-base here, but I would bet that a lot of the remaining difference goes to landscape watering. Do Americans have bigger yards, on average? Are they more addicted to lawns that look like golf courses? (yuck) They are in my suburb. The rest of the difference probably goes to larger, less efficient appliances. I can't find the exact figure, but I seem to remember than an average US washer uses 40-50 gallons per complete wash cycle. If the average family does 4-5 loads per week, that's a lot of water! Horizontal-axis washers have been very difficult to find over here; I was delighted to see that a new top-load, horizontal-axis washer is being introduced. ---Elena Westbrook, ELS WordWright Communications EWestbrook@topher.net ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 13:33:16 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA21309 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA28780 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA05790; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06010 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:24:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from cleanair.arb.ca.gov ([146.114.28.200]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06006 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [146.114.11.17] by cleanair.arb.ca.gov with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA20773; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:34:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3427FBEB.1535@arb.ca.gov> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:27:07 -0700 From: Tom Phillips Reply-To: tphillip@arb.ca.gov Organization: California Air Resources Board/Resarch Division/Indoor Exposure Assessment X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: GREENBLDGLIST Cc: lalevantis@hw1.cahwnet.gov Subject: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 143 MARY: Clearly, reducing the sources of pollutants (indoors and outdoors) is the most effective, direct strategy. In addition, "building flush-out" (hi air exchange rate and hi air mixing/surface velocity), even at normal temperatures, can avoid unnecssary pollutant exposures during initial occupancy. California's bldg. stds. now require a daily pre-occupancy flush-out of non-residential bldgs. (contact Calif. Energy Commission, 916.654.4064 re: Title 24 bldg. design stds.). Swedish researchers recommend running the HVAC at high outdoor air flows for up to 6 months after initial occupancy (see articles by Birgitta Berglund, Indoor Air proceedings, ASHRAE proceedings, etc.). Annual inspection and mintenance of HVAC systems in workplaces is also required in Calif. Building commissioning, i.e., performance testing of all systems in a completed building, should help avoid many problems typically found in new office building ventilation systems. Based on energy savings alone, building commissioning appears to be very worthwhile. See previous Bldg. Commissioning conferences at http://www.teleport.com/~peci/index.htm, and Sustainable Bldg. conference at http://fcn.state.fl.us/fdi/e-design/online/9704/cx-dade.htm. The State of Florida has also begun using bldg. commissioning in its new bldgs., I gather. Canada has an R2000 Office Building project in progress that may be of interest too. The Calif. Dept. of Health Services IAQ Program has recently produced VOC Guidelines which address these issues. Contact Leon Alevantis, 510.540.2132, lalevantis@hw1.cahwnet.gov. Cheers, Tom Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:47:11 -0500 From: "Mary McDaniel" Subject: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? Does anyone have references or information on how to outgas a new 10 story office building by heating it up to outgas or any other methods? I remember reading something about heat to outgas, but I can't find the reference. My husband is moving into this building next year and we were talking about ways to minimize sick building problems since the builder did not do any greenbuilding techniques to our knowledge. Hopefully, greenbuilding practices will be the "norm" in the future instead of the exception! -- Thomas J. Phillips AIR {) FOOD Air Pollution Research Specialist /|\ CARB/RD, Box 2815, Sacramento, CA 95812 WATER | SKIN 916.322.7145/4357 FAX _/ \_ http://www.arb.ca.gov/indoor/indoor.htm ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 14:11:59 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA22894 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA10710 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08625; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA07366 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:01:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from cleanair.arb.ca.gov ([146.114.28.200]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07360 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [146.114.11.17] by cleanair.arb.ca.gov with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA21815; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:11:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3428049D.79EF@arb.ca.gov> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:04:14 -0700 From: Tom Phillips Reply-To: tphillip@arb.ca.gov Organization: California Air Resources Board/Resarch Division/Indoor Exposure Assessment X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: GREENBLDGLIST Cc: lalevant@hw1.cahwnet.gov Subject: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 144 MARY: Clearly, reducing the sources of pollutants (indoors and outdoors) is the most effective, direct strategy. In addition, "building flush-out" (hi air exchange rate and hi air mixing/surface velocity), even at normal temperatures, can avoid unnecssary pollutant exposures during initial occupancy. California's bldg. stds. now require a daily pre-occupancy flush-out of non-residential bldgs. (contact Calif. Energy Commission, 916.654.4064 re: Title 24 bldg. design stds.). Swedish researchers recommend running the HVAC at high outdoor air flows for up to 6 months after initial occupancy (see articles by Birgitta Berglund, Indoor Air proceedings, ASHRAE proceedings, etc.). Annual inspection and mintenance of HVAC systems in workplaces is also required in Calif. Building commissioning, i.e., performance testing of all systems in a completed building, should help avoid many problems typically found in new office building ventilation systems. Based on energy savings alone, building commissioning appears to be very worthwhile. See previous Bldg. Commissioning conferences at http://www.teleport.com/~peci/index.htm, and Sustainable Bldg. conference at http://fcn.state.fl.us/fdi/e-design/online/9704/cx-dade.htm. The State of Florida has also begun using bldg. commissioning in its new bldgs., I gather. Canada has an R2000 Office Building project in progress that may be of interest too. The Calif. Dept. of Health Services IAQ Program has recently produced VOC Guidelines which address these issues. Contact Leon Alevantis, 510.540.2132, lalevant@hw1.cahwnet.gov. Cheers, Tom Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:47:11 -0500 From: "Mary McDaniel" Subject: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? Does anyone have references or information on how to outgas a new 10 story office building by heating it up to outgas or any other methods? I remember reading something about heat to outgas, but I can't find the reference. My husband is moving into this building next year and we were talking about ways to minimize sick building problems since the builder did not do any greenbuilding techniques to our knowledge. Hopefully, greenbuilding practices will be the "norm" in the future instead of the exception! -- Thomas J. Phillips AIR {) FOOD Air Pollution Research Specialist /|\ CARB/RD, Box 2815, Sacramento, CA 95812 WATER | SKIN 916.322.7145/4357 FAX _/ \_ http://www.arb.ca.gov/indoor/indoor.htm ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 15:40:49 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA24197 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA09319 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:36:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12422; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA10189 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:31:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from hevanet.com (hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10185 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.112] (pa-ppp27.hevanet.com [204.119.60.112]) by hevanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28549 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3427FBEB.1535@arb.ca.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: greenbuilding@crest.org From: "Mike O'Brien" Subject: Re: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 145 Hello, Building Bakers-- Say, one question that has perplexed me about the building bakeout concept--where does all that pollution go after it leaves the building? Is that acceptable? Best, Mike O'Brien & Associates Environmental Building Consultants Portland General Electric Earth Smart program obrien@hevanet.com ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 15:58:13 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA24366 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA15173 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13244; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA10786 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:49:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mx01.together.net (mx01.together.net [204.97.120.61]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10782 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (dial-23-TNT-BTVT-01.ramp.together.net [208.13.202.23]) by mx01.together.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA31790 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:52:11 -0400 Message-ID: <34281DE0.753@together.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:52:00 -0400 From: Tom Anderson Reply-To: hvac@together.net Organization: Mechanical Systems Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greenbuilding@crest.org Subject: GBlist: High Testosterone in Violent Women Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 146 Militant Feminists, eh? Tuesday September 23 2:09 PM EDT High Testosterone in Violent Women NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Women who commit violent crimes and show "aggressive dominance" in prison are more likely to have high levels of testosterone than other female inmates, a study shows. The report in the September-October issue of the journal Psychosomatic Medicine notes that older female prison inmates whose testosterone levels decreased with age also showed decreased aggressive behavior -- but not those whose hormone levels remained high. "The study shows that testosterone in females has much the same effect as it has in males. In the context of prison, women are more dominant and tended to have committed violent crimes," says Dr. James Dabbs, professor of psychology at Georgia State University in Atlanta. Dabbs points out that levels of testosterone in women "are much lower than in men, maybe a tenth of the levels in men. But among (women) themselves, they are equally varied in that in some women, the levels may be twice as high as in others, as in some men they are twice as high as others." The study included 87 female inmates, ages 17 to 60, at a maximum security prison. The women's testosterone levels were measured via a test of saliva, which Dabbs says correlates with blood levels of the hormone. The Georgia researchers examined the women's court records and made assessments of their prison behavior based on prison records and interviews with staff. According to Dabbs, the new findings are similar to those in recent studies of male prison inmates in which testosterone levels were highest among men convicted of violent crimes such as rape, homicide, assault. As inmates they also violated more prison rules. According to Dabbs, additional but "tentative" findings in his study pertain to five women whose testosterone levels were lowest. Three staff members (without knowledge of the inmates' hormone levels) "used the phrases 'very manipulative,' 'denies her part in problems,' 'sneaky,' a 'snake in the grass,"' to describe the five, Dabbs notes. And when asked for a single adjective that best described these inmates, all agreed "treacherous" was the word. According to Dabbs, this subjective assessment of the five "makes sense." "If you're going to be straightforward in your behavior, you need a lot of gumption behind it." Thus, lacking the "gumption" conferred by higher hormone levels, these women find ways to be "equally bad -- bad-tempered or bad-natured -- but are afraid to show it directly," he explains. Still, Dabbs acknowledges the possibility of a chicken versus egg question; that is, which comes first -- the hormone level or the violent behavior? "It's both. Testosterone comes at a certain level, and some people are higher than others and always have been and will be, and that's going to make them a little bit different," he says. "On the other hand, behavior is going to change it (testosterone level). In studies of athletes, winning a contest increases testosterone and in studies of animals, winning a fight increases testosterone," he points out. "In my view, the most important part is how the testosterone affects the behavior, because some people are just chronically higher in testosterone," Dabbs adds. But the researcher says the new study "does not imply testosterone is the only variable or the most important one. Social factors, physical condition, and other hormones undoubtedly contribute to criminal behavior and behavior in prison." SOURCE: Psychosomatic Medicine (1997;59) ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 16:01:44 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA24410 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA16166 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13336; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA10887 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:52:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from mx01.together.net (mx01.together.net [204.97.120.61]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10882 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:52:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (dial-23-TNT-BTVT-01.ramp.together.net [208.13.202.23]) by mx01.together.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA31873 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:55:08 -0400 Message-ID: <34281E91.116@together.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:54:57 -0400 From: Tom Anderson Reply-To: hvac@together.net Organization: Mechanical Systems Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: GREENBLDGLIST Subject: GBlist: Message sent by Mistake Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 147 Oops.! I sent a message to you about female hormones/female violence. :-) It was sent to you by mistake. My regrets. Tom Anderson ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 16:29:11 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (npc.press.org [152.2.254.83]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA24769 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA23780 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA14246; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA11639 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:19:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net (italy-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.18]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA11635 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.37.244.229] (1Cust101.max3.portland2.or.ms.uu.net [153.37.244.229]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA21705 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709232022.NAA21705@italy.it.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: GBlist: How to outgas a new building? Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 13:21:04 -0000 x-sender: oikos@earthlink.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Bruce Sullivan To: "Green Building" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 148 Mike Didn't you know "dilution is the solution to pollution?" ;-) Bruce >Hello, Building Bakers-- > >Say, one question that has perplexed me about the building bakeout >concept--where does all that pollution go after it leaves the building? > >Is that acceptable? > >Best, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Sullivan Tel: 541-484-9353 Iris Communications, Inc. Fax: 541-484-1645 Web: http://www.oikos.com/ E-mail: iris@oikos.com ---------- 1,800 green building product listings online ----------- ______________________________________________________________________ This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST Environmental Building News and Oikos For instructions send e-mail to greenbuilding-request@crest.org. ______________________________________________________________________ From owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Tue Sep 23 18:45:03 1997 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (fddisunsite.oit.unc.edu [152.2.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA27053 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.digimark.net (athena.digimark.net [208.202.26.20]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA29606 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from solstice.crest.org (solstice.crest.org [208.202.27.10]) by athena.digimark.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA17936; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA15583 for greenbuilding-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:36:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to owner-greenbuilding@crest.org using -f Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by solstice.crest.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA15579 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from van-as-14b03.direct.ca [204.174.251.67] by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0xDdav-0006pQ-00; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:38:14 -0700 From: "Richard Kadulski" To: Subject: Re: GBlist: environmental windows (digest V1 #397) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:36:51 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-greenbuilding@crest.org Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 149 >From: John Salmen > : > > Willmar makes a wood (hemlock) window with an aluminum exterior > cladding. I'm not sure about their choice of base material as it would > be primarily old growth from west coast forest and does not perform well > with excessive moisture and does not have t