From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 2 18:05:48 2000 Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:05:48 -0500 (EST) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0941183004 0000000919 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Oct 28 10:24:37 1999 -0400 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28922 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:24:39 -0600 From: Skye Reply-To: "permaculture" Organization: Instituto de Permacultura de Mexico AC, http://www.tortuga.com/permacultura MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: New Web Pages Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 Hola tod@s Just a quick note to let everyone know that there is now a Permaculture WEB Page covering what is happening in Mexico - some of it is in spanish and some in English - maybe you'd like to check it out http://www.tortuga.com/permacultura And I have also put up the start of a page for those interested in Participatory Processes - ie for those who feel to work with people, rather than play the know-it-all-PC-expert. To me this is the People Care part of our ethics - but I won't get into that rave here - it is not quite complete - and if anyone wants to add further articles, links etc let me know - if could build into the Permaculture People (Zone 0) page!!!! http://www.tortuga.com/participation Thats enough for now Keep growing Skye -- Skye - Sevilla #312, Col. Portales, CP 03300, DF México. 5539 0716 http//www.tortuga.com/permacultura Profesor y diseñador en Permacultura Director del Instituto de Permacultura de México A.C. Talleres de desarrollo humano, planeación participativa y economía comunitaria. --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 04:53:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15599 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24834 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:11:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24634 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA31973 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:10:37 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07422 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:11:24 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 29 Oct 99 10:03:50 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 29 Oct 99 10:03:50 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:03:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: BSE update Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <14F8061F83@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 just for info: PARIS, Oct 25, (AFP) - A new case of madcow disease, probably due to cross contamination between animal feed, has been detected in a herd of cattle in western French region of Mayenne, the Agriculture Ministry announces Monday. The ministry said in a communique that the animal infected in Mayenne was born in 1994, four years after the ban imposed on animal feed using meat and bones which were considered the main reason for madcow disease or bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). Officials said France has shown a rise in the number of madcow cases since 1991 -- a total of 71 cases -- probably due to cross contamination between feed for cattle, pigs and fowl. They said that as late as August of 1996, animal feed for pigs and fowl still included such ingredients as remains of a cow's central nervous system, considered a high risk for madcow disease. Although such matter is now destroyed, it has an incubation period of five years and scientists say they expect new cases of madcow disease in France until the end of 2001. The latest case detected in Mayenne brings to 22 the number of cows infected since the start of the year in France. As in each case, the entire herd was destroyed to prevent the disease spreading. klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 05:30:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15824 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03564 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:08:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03477 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.43 (mx3-29.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.43]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA24087; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:05:24 -0500 Message-ID: <381966FB.362B@smallfarms.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:21:00 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Subsidies and Priorities Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 Yesterday Steve Suppan of IATP sent me a short piece by a Montana wheat farmer, Jerry Sikorski entitled "Oversupply or Monopoly?". It includes this passage: "Tiger Woods gets paid ten cents for having his picture on each box of Wheaties, and the farmer gets five cents for raising the wheat." Can this really be true? I hope someone will pursue this further. chuck Dear Chuck: With apologies to my fellow farmer Mr. Sikorski and the excellent people at IATP (http://www.iatp.org). Tiger Woods had a better year than we did.... Further apologies to Mr. Woods, the fine Asian American golfer. What if we did find that the figures are accurate? In my opinion, it will only confirm that General Mills and other major food labels are doing a better job of marketing our food than we are. I'm concerned that we would, to use a golf analogy, suffer paralysis by analysis. And apologies to Babe Ruth, too. Chuck, they out marketed, out promoted and out smiled us again, as they've done for the last thirty years. (Please don't research this one.) If anyone knows Mr. Sikorski, please tell him I owe him a free farm registration at smallfarms.com. If any farmer out there has a smile like Tiger Woods', you have a free registration for life! For regular small farmers who think they have little to smile about these days, the free registrations are still available. Register your farm today! glenn Buy from the Farmer http://www.smallfarms.com Tiger Woods simply had a better year than we did.... To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 08:36:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17268 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA13503 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:09:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13452 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25965 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d70.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.198]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA71516 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:07:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008501bf2209$00b9f460$c67a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: chlorpyrifos Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:27:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 Hi all, Just what is chloropyrifos? Thanks Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 09:11:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17651 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14370 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:51:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14284 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26850 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26882>; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:00:29 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Paul Schmitmeyer" cc: "Sanet" Message-Id: <99Oct29.080029cdt.26882@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:49:16 -0500 Subject: Re: chlorpyrifos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 Paul asked: Just what is chloropyrifos? Pat replies: Chlorpyorphos is a broad spectrum, non-systemic insecticide sold by Dow-Elanco as Lorsban or Dursban. It works by contact, ingestion & vapour action (inhalant). It is used for control; of mites; aphids; cutworms; army worms; corn maggots; tarnish bugs; 'hoppers; diamondback moths & others in cereals, oilseeds, corn, sugar beets, sunflowers & potatoes. From Saskatchewan dept of Agriculture guide to chemical control. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 09:42:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18268 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01047 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:22:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01034 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA27702 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA23607; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:20:56 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma021959; Fri, 29 Oct 99 08:19:49 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:19:49 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFC2@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" Cc: Sanet Subject: RE: chlorpyrifos Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:19:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Paul, > Just what is chloropyrifos? Chlorpyrifos (Lorsban, Dursban) is a moderately toxic, moderately persistent (in the environment, not in the body) organophosphate insecticide that is very widely used for many things like termite control, flea collars, foliar application, lawn insect control, in-furrow application (eg for rootworms), and indoors for ant and roach control. http://ace.orst.edu/cgi-bin/mfs/01/pips/chlorpyr.htm http://www.dowagro.com/main/product_results.asp Chlorpyrifos has been around for a long time, and has a good safety record, although a few people claim to be highly sensitive to it. The fact that traces of this can be found in human urine is not, in itself, indication of a problem. In fact, this is so widely used, it would be a surprise if you couldn't find it in your urine. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 10:00:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18687 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12126 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:40:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12047 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA02677; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:06:19 GMT Message-ID: <38199B7D.ACB41EC0@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:05:02 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Free range chickens Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 To: Mike Miller Yes, predation will be a factor in raising free range chickens. However, all is not hopeless. Big chickens w/broods and dutiful roosters can be pretty fiesty when it comes to the cat. If not, then try the .22 solution. A good dog (or 2) will help against ground varmits such as 'coons and 'possums. Plenty of cover in the form of evergreens, holly type bushes, etc. will help the chickens hide from owls and hawks (not to mention hiding from you). The 12 ga. solution, or a good dog (or 3) is often used to control the problems with coyotes and dump dogs. And yes, I speak from experience. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 10:13:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18935 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19974 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:49:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19963 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA28442 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA09261; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:48:01 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma008185; Fri, 29 Oct 99 08:47:33 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:47:33 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFC3@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" Cc: Sanet Subject: RE: chlorpyrifos Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:47:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 One of the URL's I posted doesn't work. Try this instead. Look under "U.S. label & MSDS System" for information about Lorsban and Dursban. http://www.dowelanco.com/ Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 10:47:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19572 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29026 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:06:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28884 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:06:25 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:02:45 -0500 X-ROUTED: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:02:44 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.250] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 091e283c ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:02:40 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991029085015.008f4560@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:50:15 -0500 To: Subject: Hybrid to OP Corn? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 >From: dmhinds@acnet.net >Date: 29 Oct 99 01:44:50 -0600 >Subject: Re[2]: Time and the "Benefit" of BT Corn You are saying then that with some work/?luck? I can take my hybrid and turn it into a stable Open-Pollinated variety with the same characteristics. Then why are we spending all this money on hybrid seeds? The farmers have no margin left to spend on unnecessary expenses. If true, it seems this would be a money saving way to go. After all farmers have the equipment, the land and the know-how to grow and harvest the crop, so why not develop our own open pollinated types that works best in our own area? What if every farmer devoted, say 2 acres to his own research? You would not lose the odd 20-70 dollars an acre from growing a regular crop and with a little of your own work, you would have the potential to save money in the long run. Another benefit would be mental. At least you would be doing something so save your farm from the inevitable fate that awaits you if you just go along with the current system. I would not hold my breath waiting for the congress et al to break up the grain/packing house monoplies so the expense reduction is going to have to come on the input side. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Mike Miller major snip >AMcG> This led us to hybrids > >Hybrids are simply the results of natural breeding methods (cross >pollination) that happen to NOT reproduce true to seed, due the >instability of the particular genetic cross. > >Further cross breeding (continued seed selection) can sometimes revert >this reversion to type. In other words, if the cross proves stable and >reproduces true to type, you've got a new OP variety on your hands, >which is harder to make proprietary. It has also been found that the >tension involved in a genetic cross that is inherently unstable can >sometimes introduce a kind of temporary (since it doesn't reproduce) >vigor in the progeny. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 10:51:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19620 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02292 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:11:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp1.a2000.nl (farida.a2000.nl [62.108.1.19]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02197 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node11e64.a2000.nl ([24.132.30.100] helo=zap.a2000.nl) by smtp1.a2000.nl with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #4) id 11hCiO-00062B-00 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:09:12 +0200 Message-ID: <3819AF32.540BCC1A@zap.a2000.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:29:06 +0200 From: wytze X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: rediscovery of old way of plant breeding Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 Hi, This is my first posting on this list. It is a summary of an article I found in today's Dutch Agrarian Journal. Wytze de Lange Heading: Old method of Plantbreeding rediscovered. By: Joost van Winsen Introduction: Can a plant adapt to its environment? If that appeared to be true, than it offers (huge) breedingpossibilities for organic agriculture and agriculture in poor areas. Trials at the Russian Timirasov-University show that winterwheat adapts itself to growthcircumstances and can be selected on this. Wageningen:- Sonja Temirbikova is a Russian doctor in plantbreeding and cropprotection. Since ten years she is testing winterwheat on their capacity to adapt to circumstances of growth. The research started after meeting with Jan Diek van Mansvelt from the Agricultural University Wageningen in the Netherlands. Van Mansvelt visited Russia ten years ago to see what the possibilities are for organic agriculture in Russia. In the first year of the research Temirbikova planted Dutch wheat between Russian wheat of the same variety.Ten percent of the Dutch wheat appeared to be suitable for the extreme cold circumstances in Russia. Also the second year the Dutch wheat proved resistent to the Russian frost. "A quality of which we knew nothing in the Netherlands" says van Mansvelt. This finding is in itself not new. Temirbikova: "plantbreeding in former times was based on this principle. In grainshippings there were several sisterlines which were used for selection. Nowadays, this principle is being judged as a negative phenomena. It disturbs the homogenicity. According to van Mansvelt, breeding on the basis of sisterlines was in Scandinavian countries common practice till the end of the last century. Also farmers in 'developing' countries use this principle in breeding. Knwoledge about it is not very much present. It was lost with breeders who selected this way. Breeding is for some length of time a matter of crosses and since recent times of genetic engineering. The lack of knowledge is one of the reasons why Temirbikova went on with the research. She used three varieties: the Russian Mironowskaja 808, Okapi and Rector. After ten years of research she concludes that without crossing in five to six years a new biotype can be selected from a population. "With crossing this would take twelve years". she says. Points taken into consideration were yields and tolerances, but the wheats also could be selected for diseaseresistance. Russian Ministery of Science saw enough reason to continue subsidizing the research. The research opens possibilities for organic agriculture."Farmers can take up breeding themselves and do not need to be dependant on big breeding companies. This can work cost reducing". The research is still young but promising. "The principle can also be used with potatos and vegetables" concludes Temirbikova. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 10:55:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19668 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:55:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03574 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:14:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from torrex1.theitgroup.com (itcrp.com [207.247.16.114]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03538 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by torrex1.theitgroup.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:12:22 -0700 Message-ID: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE4943A2@KNOXEX1> From: "Cole, Ralph" To: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: free range eggs Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:12:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 Mike- Here's what we did: bought an old school bus ($150+towing), cut the floor out and replaced it with 2"x2" wire, installed roosts, nesting boxes, and a feed hopper. Screened out the cab area for feed/utility storage. Hung a bell waterer off the side. I open up the emergency exit every morning for the girls to come down a ramp. I collect eggs and close the bus every evening. Move the bus every week or so with the tractor to a new spot on the pasture. All the hens are protected at night when the varmints are out. During the day, they can dive for cover under the bus if they see a hawk. We had trouble with a coyote last year, but he didn't get too many, and haven't seen him this year though there are plenty of coyotes around. Domestic animals, well, we cull our barn cats if they show too much favor for chasing chickens. Some do, some don't. This setup has worked real well for us and was cheap to build. You could adapt the concept to your flock size by using whatever vehicle fits your plans. Could be a van, minibus, or greyhound. Our unit houses 75 heavy breed layers easily. Could go higher. Roosting space is the limiting factor. Visit the PasturePoultry list for all your poultry Q's and A's. Grace to you, Ralph > -----Original Message----- > > Alright, you all have me convinced. I have wanted to start with a few > chickens here on the farm but how do free range birds hold up with the > red-tailed hawks, raccoons, possums, owls and my major worry, my barn cat To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 10:56:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19694 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01889 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:09:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01868 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from REXD.uark.edu ([130.184.56.55]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.7/UW7.1.0) with SMTP id JAA11873; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:06:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910291406.JAA11873@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Rex Dufour" To: jaweaver@epix.net Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:03:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Check this out Reply-to: rexd@ncatark.uark.edu CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: <3818F316.18B99D9C@epix.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 Jim, Well, at least Ed Shonsey, President of Novartis Seeds, got this part right--, "Ignorance on the part of a group of people, who... have imperiled the near-term future of agricultural biotechnology" Yup, there was an ignorant group of people that chose to ignore input from an important group of stakeholders. The stakeholders had legitimate concerns about the risks of a new biotechnology (some of which (the concerns) have since been born out) being widely dispersed in the environment. The heads of the companies in question chose to ignore (root of ignorant) these legitimate concerns, tactically focusing instead on the gleam of large short-term profits. This turned out to be a large strategic blunder. Now, an interesting and possibly useful technology has been tainted in the public mind due to the haste and greed of company leaders too willing to externalize environmental/social costs upon the rest of society. I'm not sure the idea of "terminator technology" improved biotech companies' corporate images, either... The analogies of adoption of biotech with the widespread use of pesticide technology (and the resulting environmental side effects) should've been obvious to even company CEO's--after all, the companies pushing biotech are many of the same companies that manufactured and sold synthetic pesticides--at least the parallels were obvious to the European public... The biotech companies have only themselves to blame for the present cloud of distrust and suspicion which hovers over them and their products. Rex Dufour > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:06:30 -0400 > From: Jim Weaver > Reply-to: jaweaver@epix.net > Organization: GCES > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Check this out > Ignorance imperils future of agriculture > > Farmers are in fight or flee mode; they are confused, > scared and angry, observed Ed Shonsey, the president and > CEO of Novartis Seeds, Thursday in an Iowa speech. "And > you know what bothers them the most?" he asked. "It's not > the government. Or the weather. Or even the seed > companies. What has farmers upset -- so upset their > eternal optimism is in serious danger of becoming > permanent pessimism -- is ignorance. Ignorance. Ignorance > on the part of a group of people, who, in the name of > protecting the environment, have imperiled the near-term > future of agricultural biotechnology." He makes an > impassioned case for the science behind, and the > potentially great benefits of biotechnology. Read the > full text of his speech here: > > > http://www.agriculture.com/scgi/notebook/nb.cgi?FNC=Corres > pondents__Anb_list_html___780 > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the > command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest > format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To > Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the > command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 11:18:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20262 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:18:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04354 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:17:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04206 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA02717; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:42:24 GMT Message-ID: <3819A43F.76778695@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:42:24 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: no-till chemical use Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 To London et al: On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Lynne Carpenter-Boggs wrote: > No-till is a wonderful thing, and even with the increased herbicide > input it is a much more productive and environment-friendly system > than currently practiced in many places. London replied: "How is increased herbicide use/acre more environment-friendly?" My reply: No-till is not the be all - end all of environmentally sound farming. However, it certainly can have tremendous environmental benefits, compared to conventional farming (deep plowing, disking, cultivating, etc.) Yes, generally more chemical amounts are used. However, since the killed vegetation reduces soil erosion to near zero (major benefit), absorbs chemicals, slows surface water movement, reduces fertilizer loss, enhances water movement into the soil profile, etc. then there is less chemical running off into surface waters. As for chemical leaching into the ground water, that can be a problem with some chemicals used in no-till and conventional tillage (atrizine types for instance). However, many chemicals do break down while in the soil, so as they are moving through the soil they tend to degrade. No-till also enhances soil tilth, reduces fossile fuel use (thereby reducing air pollution and global warming), lowers labor and equipment costs to the farmer, and has been proven to maintain or even increase yields. No-till farming: Environmental panacea? Nope. Environmentally friendly? Yep. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 11:20:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20341 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03791 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03783 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from the-ufos-asy-35.rutgers.edu (the-ufos-asy-35.rutgers.edu [128.6.249.35]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA28799; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:10:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: the-ufos-asy-35.rutgers.edu [128.6.249.35] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <3819D4B8.42@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:09:12 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: sanet Subject: Re: chlorpyrifos References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFC2@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 Wilson, Dale wrote: > Chlorpyrifos has been around for a long time, and has a good safety record, > although a few people claim to be highly sensitive to it. The fact that > traces of this can be found in human urine is not, in itself, indication of > a problem. Apparently, the clear evidence of chemical trespass itself is disregarded as being in the category of things we call "a problem." By this reasoning, if a person breaks into my home by picking the lock, but does not actually break the lock in doing so, and proceeds to alarm my family, tells bad jokes, has vile body odor, and sit on the furniture, but does not immediately kill anyone or steal or break anything, then the presence of this trespassor "is not, in itself, indication of a problem." I shall poll everyone I run across for the next 7 days, and shall submit this situation to their scrutiny. I shall ask "Would you consider it a problem to have a tresspassor hanging out in your home? Please answer yes or no." I'll report the results when they are compiled. I hypothesize that it would be considered indication of a problem. Or is there some error in the analogy? > In fact, this is so widely used, it would be a surprise if you > couldn't find it in your urine. No argument here. LM To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 11:29:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20529 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12924 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:39:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.1starnet.com (1starnet.com [207.243.104.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12854 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from joepaloff [207.243.107.57] by mail.1starnet.com (SMTPD32-5.04) id A144182016C; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:37:56 CDT Message-ID: <05cb01bf221b$861a5fc0$396bf3cf@joepaloff> From: "Minelle & Joe Paloff" To: Subject: Free range chickens.....comment Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:40:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 I raised free range chickens both in northern Arkansas and now down here in Texas. In AR, I must have had about 100 chickens running around in the yard and nearby woods. I had a good chicken house with a light, which I kept on all the time. At night, most of the chickens would go into the house, and then we would go out and close the door. In the morning, we would open the door and let them out again. I had quite a few dogs which kept predators away. One time, I had a black snake which sneaked in at the top of the house near the roof through a tiny hole. We soon took care of that prob. LOL Down here in Texas, I do not have a nice chicken house like I did in Arkansas; however, I raised a few chickens out in my goat pen ( after they were old enough to leave the brooder), and most did quite well. I still have dogs which I trained from tiny puppies to leave the chicks alone. I have four dogs outside. A Great Pyranees ( who has never attempted to kill anything), a tri-colored collie, and two mixed collie-chows. They are great dogs and really work at night. In my way of thinking, to be really successful , one needs a good chicken house for the chickens to go in at night and in foul weather, a light in the chicken house, fresh water, good food, and some good dogs. As for diet, I fed corn chops, leftover cornbread, veggies, leftover popcorn, etc. I also saved the egg shells, baked them in the oven until crisp, then put them in a plastic bag and crushed them with my rolling pin, then put them in with the corn chops for added strength to the eggs. Minelle Paloff To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 11:34:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20681 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16824 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:44:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16812 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA19585; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:42:37 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma019423; Fri, 29 Oct 99 09:42:30 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:42:30 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFC4@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Dave Lewington'" Cc: Sanet Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:42:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Dave, > As far as I'm concerned, all seed companies should be required to > make available the non GMO base hybrid that is in every GMO > hybrid. I tend to agree, but I don't like the idea of the government dictating what varieties we must offer. If I were the head of product planning, I would offer all the elite material as non-GMO hybrids to give customers the choice. Keep in mind that often, the non-GMO version IS marketed, but just not identified as the non-GMO equivalent of the more trendy GMO hybrid. > Either that or you are going to drive all of us that don't wish to > grow GMO to the small local companies or to open pollinated corn. I think the big companies are beginning to realize this. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 11:34:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20689 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21819 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:59:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from spdmgaae.compuserve.com (ds-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21789 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id KAA03163 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:56:39 -0400 From: Tom Green Subject: Environmental Marketing Conference To: Sanet posting Message-ID: <199910291056_MC2-8AEC-7E22@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA21795 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 Please feel free to circulate to listservs, friends and neighbors. Conventional producers who are interested in learning more about opportunities in environmentally identified production and marketing are especially encouraged to attend. To: News Editor October 29, 1999 From: Thomas A. Green, Ph.D., President, IPM Institute of North America, Inc. (608) 232-1528, fax (608) 232-1530 E-mail: ipminstitute@cs.com FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE #### Conference Set on Adding Value to Food Products through Environmental Marketing, December 6-7, 1999 in Madison, WI How concerned are consumers about the environmental impacts of agricultural production practices? How can producers effectively communicate their efforts to reduce these impacts? What market advantages are available to food and fiber producers, processors and retailers who can document and deliver environmental benefits? More than 50% of consumers indicate a preference for goods produced in an environmentally sound manner. The organic market is currently $5 billion dollars, growing 20% annually, and now includes marketing giants such as Quaker Oats and General Mills. Products identified with other eco-labels and environmental standards, including ISO 14001, are also experiencing double digit sales growth in domestic and international markets. How can you turn this challenge into an opportunity for your organization? At this conference, you will discuss these issues with national experts and industry leaders, including Harvey Hartman, a consultant advising senior management of Fortune 500 companies on environmental and marketing strategies; Katherine DiMatteo, Executive Director of the Organic Trade Association, representing over 1000 members; Mark Retzloff, Senior Vice President of Horizon Organic Dairy, the largest organic brand with over $57 million in annual sales; Daniel Burke, President of Pacific Soybean and Grain, an international supplier of identity-preserved grains; Jeff Wilson, owner, Birkbank Farms, producer of fruit and vegetables and participant in the Ontario Farm Plan; Tom O'Neill, Manager, Norfolk Fruit Growers Association, completing ISO 14001 environmental certification; Ron Lautrup, National Commodities Manager, United Natural Foods, the largest natural foods distributor in the U.S., with $729 million in sales and 73% growth in 1998, Harold Coble, former USDA National IPM Coordinator and others working in well-established and newly developed environmentally based production and marketing systems. "Adding Value through Environmental Marketing: Opportunities for Food Producers, Processors and Retailers" with special focus on production, marketing and distribution of field crops, meat and dairy products will be held December 6-7, 1999, at the Edgewater Hotel in Madison, Wisconsin. Attendance is limited to the first 160 registrants. For more information, contact the IPM Institute of North America, 1914 Rowley Ave., Madison, WI 53705, (608) 232-1528, Fax (608) 232-1530, E-mail , or visit the web site at ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13141 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:39:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13067 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 129.2.68.82 (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20890 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3819791A.2015@wam.umd.edu> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:38:31 +0000 From: Valerie Berton Organization: SARE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: New on-farm research bulletin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 A new, 12-page bulletin for farmers, ranchers and the extension educators who work with them outlines how to conduct research at the farm level. Published by the Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program’s Sustainable Agriculture Network, the bulletin offers practical tips for both crop and livestock producers, as well as a comprehensive list of more in depth resources. Real-life examples -- from a Pennsylvania vegetable farmer testing new rotations to a Montana producer experimenting with a legume called black medic to build soil and prolong pasture -- may stimulate research ideas. Co-written by a team of research scientists, the bulletin features many SARE grant recipients. The free publication is available at www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/ or call (301) 504-6422 and request a copy of "Put Your Ideas to the Test: How to Conduct Research on Your Farm or Ranch." Valerie Berton SARE Communications Specialist (301) 405-3186 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 11:42:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20917 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29777 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:11:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.30]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29751 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21063 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3819C685.337C4AFE@uoguelph.ca> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:08:37 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: no-till chemical use (long) References: <3819A43F.76778695@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Folks: mike (son of richard) richardson wrote regarding no-till: > However, it certainly can have tremendous environmental > benefits, compared to conventional farming (deep plowing, disking, > cultivating, etc.) Yes, generally more chemical amounts are used. > However, since the killed vegetation reduces soil erosion to near zero > (major benefit), absorbs chemicals, slows surface water movement, > reduces fertilizer loss, enhances water movement into the soil profile, > etc. then there is less chemical running off into surface waters. As > for chemical leaching into the ground water, that can be a problem with > some chemicals used in no-till and conventional tillage (atrizine types > for instance). However, many chemicals do break down while in the soil, > so as they are moving through the soil they tend to degrade. No-till > also enhances soil tilth, reduces fossile fuel use (thereby reducing air > pollution and global warming), lowers labor and equipment costs to the > farmer, and has been proven to maintain or even increase yields. Pasture - which is an "alternate" form of the livestock nutrition (grains) produced with no-till - does all of the above, and better - without need for chemicals in the first place. Let's not frame the discussion so narrowly as to create a strawman-type argument. If we really stand back and analyze land use practices objectively (whatever that is), starting with - what do we grow these crops for in the first place - this opens up a much wider array of options than just no-till or till. Might also add that even well managed no-till inherently and inescapably creates a whole suite of problems (which well managed pasture doesn't), including weed shifts to favor hard-to-control perennials like dandelion and quack. The obligatory dependence on herbicides (to the exclusion of all other approaches) also accelerates herbicide resistance (note Benbrook's authoritative commentary earlier on the increase in mean glyphosate use in the US in just the last few years, owing largely to no-till and RR crops (probably in that order too). In Ontario, long-time no-till farmers (experienced and commited people; leaders in the field) have begun to plow up their land, following several dry years in a row. For reasons that I still do not understand (given all the presumed increase in soil OM and water conservation under no-till (which is disputed, see below)), no-till land apparently has performed worse than tilled land under dry conditions. I'd have thought the reverse. It may have something to do with the accumulation of macropore space opening directly to the surface, conveying water too readily down to tiles before it can be absorbed. These same uninterrupted macropores, by the way, also convey liquid manure, herbicides, and anything else that has been surface applied directly down to tiles and out into surface water systems - completely bypassing buffer strips and other vehicles recommended to protect the integrity of watercourses. Colleagues in Land Resource Science tell me that no-till slows down the rate of loss of OM under annual arable cropping, but does NOT increase full-profile soil OM. Distribution is affected, with more concentrating in the surface layers, but less in the lower layers, with a net effect that total OM does NOT increase. The only way to materially increase soil OM is to withhold the land from cultivation under a perennial sod - like a pasture or hay field. And then there is the issue of N-use efficiency. I recall a paper co-authored by Rennie (former dean of ag at Sask and major proponent of conservation tillage) showing the potential for anaerobic microsites and anaerobiosis under surface vegetation on no-tilled land in the spring promoted denitrification and N-loss on wheat land. The amounts were fairly hefty if memory serves - say, 20-50 kg N/ha. Surface residues also keep soil colder longer, which effectively shortens the growing season in a short season climate, such as we have in Canada. Surface residues, particularly in combination with cold, can also retard plant establishment and seedling vigor, promoting susceptibility to a range of soil damping-off and other pathogens. Only certain crops *can* be grown no-till, which reduces rotation complexity and hampers the ability to constructively design rotations to deal with weed, pest, and nutrient management issues. Another unintended effect of no-till is leaving allelochemically active residues on the soil surface, where they can impact weed and subsequent crop growth. As it happens, one of the major no-till crops in Canada is no-till wheat. Research by Purvis et al., in Australia, has shown that the allelochemics released by decomposing wheat straw stimulate wild oat germination and growth. Thus, failure to incorporate the residues created a mega-problem with wild oats. And wild oats are a major problem in the prairies, which have adopted no-till wheat with a vengence. So, from a different (pro-pasture, admittedly) vantage point, no-till is a proprietary band-aid to patch up a arable crop technology (annual tillage to produce annual grain crops) that is fundamentally at odds with the ecological integrity of farm land. The problem(s) with tillage is soil erosion and degradation, with consequent effects on related processes, as water use efficiency. So, no-till addresses those issues, but in so doing, creates a suite of other issues. Pasture - which is what ruminants are actually evolved to eat in the first place - avoids most of these issues entirely (granted, you have to manage it to avoid overgrazing, erosion, etc.). Admittedly, pasture also creates some potential problems, relating to soil compaction (and water infiltration etc.) and N leaching/volatilization - although these are at least partly managable through such practices as restricting labile N (less chemical N; lower % legume). Management intensive grazing is a largely non-proprietary technology which can be mastered by men, women, and children, can be a useful (if not sole) source of nutrition year-around (even in Canada), and can retain a much larger share of farm gate receipts in the hands of farmers than no-till, conventional till, or any kind of annual arable cropping. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why commodity-specific subsidy/entitlement programs always favor annual crops and completely omit pasture (and often hay) crops. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 12:32:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21953 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22095 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:45:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22058 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00898 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.88] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:42:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:40:19 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <11444.991029@acnet.net> To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Subsidies and Priorities In-reply-To: <199910281529.IAA02084@enaila.nidlink.com> References: <199910281529.IAA02084@enaila.nidlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 Thursday, October 28, 1999, 9:42:51 AM, you wrote: ... CB> Amount spent to produce food consumed in the US in 1996 (farm CB> cost): $126 billion. Amount spent on marketing it: $421 billion" ... CB> "Tiger Woods gets paid ten cents for having his picture on each CB> box of Wheaties, and the farmer gets five cents for raising the CB> wheat." CB> Can this really be true? I hope someone will pursue this further. CB> chuck Probably true and not surprising. Farmers do not control the food industry, where more weight is held by the distribution end of it. (Incidentally, an organic farmer in California and Mexico who also distributes his own and other peoples organic food products world wide, told me once that his distribution costs were higher than his production costs). In any case, there is nothing that prevents farmers from forming organizations that take charge of the whole food chain - except their own capacity to organize, finance, administrate, collaborate etc. I suggest: Do it! Provide an alternative. Easier said than done? Of course. Got anything better to do? Is this something that is necessary, or not? Douglas Hinds, CeDeCoR, A.C. Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, Asociacion Civil (Center for Rural and Community Development, a non-profit organization) Cordoba, Veracruz; Cd. Guzman, Jalisco & Reynosa, Tamaulipas Mexico dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 12:34:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22021 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24239 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:52:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24208 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx (customer-23-246-140.uninet.net.mx [200.23.246.140] (may be forged)) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12282 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:50:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991029103155.00728ea8@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:31:55 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: rediscovery of old way of plant breeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA24217 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 Dear SANET and Wytze de Lange Thank you for this interesting post, Wytse. Indeed, the subject is so important that I think it would be helpful if you could clarify some of the points that I don't quite understand. What exactly does "crossing sister lines" involve in practical terms? With corn crossing is fairly easy, but how does it work with wheat? What exactly is the nature of Temirbikova's research? There is precious little research on this issue. I just saw a presentation of fascinating results by Hugo Perales, Mexican agronomist, who found that traditional farmers in Central Mexico are able to maintain adapted races of corn that perform as well or outperform available hybrids. Farmers freely use the hybrids when they work, but for the most part, the traditionally maintained varieties do just as well (including by responding to chemical fertilizer and irrigations etc.) and in some conditions consistently outperfom hybrids. Two factors maintain these varieties: the incredibile reserve of genetic variety farmers possess and conserve (with know help from anybody) and the continual experimentation and selections by farmers from that variety (one again, with no support). Mexican government ag policy has, for decades, actively discouraged this activity among farmers. There is a lot of hype about 'modern plant breeding' and now 'biotechnology' as being what has 'fed the world' over the past decades as we grew to 6 billion. But it seems to me this activity by farmers that has maintained the viability of our crops all over the world is far more important to our food security, past and future, than any systematic breeding or genetic engineering ever has or will be. In fact, the concern now is that GE, seed patents and such might threaten this traditional source of crop productitivity. How much of our basic crop production do we really owe to modern plant breeders and how much do we owe to farmers? I think giving the plant breeders credit for 10 per cent of it would be generous. Would it be possible to come up with quantitative estimate? Not that we don't appreciate them! I hope modern plant breeders will continue to ply their trade. But the coroporate hype has blown their contribution way out of proportion and detoured our attention from the truly vital process we should be concerned about: in situ conservation and selection by farmers. This is the heart of agricultural sustainability. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 12:36:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22062 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:51:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA23540 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id KAA05413; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:47:03 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma004596; Fri, 29 Oct 99 10:46:28 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:46:27 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFC5@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Do-it-yourself corn breeding Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:46:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 Alex and Mike, Alex wrote: > Of course, GMOs are the same mentality. This mentality has > been operating since the beginning of agriculture. (Keep > in mind that any type of cultivation is unnatural.) > > We started out just selecting individual plants for their > properties, but that wasn't good enough. Then we had to > start cross pollinating for characteristics. (grafting is > just a mutation of this.) This led us to hybrids and then > to GMOs. All of this is a manipulation of nature, so there > are no sacred cows, such as heirloom varieties or standard > fruit trees. This kind of fundamental, human-mediated evolution lies at the root of agriculture and is interlocked with the evolution of human culture. Just about all our fruit species came from Asia, for example. Our most serious pests are fairly recent introductions too. Such manipulation is only "unnatural" if you believe that humans (or the human mind) is not part of nature. I am not saying that everything we do is desirable or good, just that appeal to natural law is a weak foundation in these matters. > The goal initially, with selection, cross pollination and > grafting was to bend the plants to our needs- production, > flavor and nutrition. The goal of hybrids was to do all > this AND own a variety which didn't breed true- to make > growers dependent on seed companies. The same is true of GMOs. Okay, Okay! lets deal with this head on. If I am smart and organized enough to come up with superior varieties, what is wrong with my protecting them from people who would steal them? Don't I have a right to earn a living? Mike wrote (in response to Douglas I think): > You are saying then that with some work/?luck? I can take my > hybrid and turn it into a stable Open-Pollinated variety with > the same characteristics. Then why are we spending all this > money on hybrid seeds? > so why not develop our own open pollinated types that works > best in our own area? Because selection pressures experienced by OP corn tend to select against certain important traits. But I would encourage you to try (if you do, I think you will decide that Pioneer Seed is a pretty good deal). You might want to emulate the successful 19th century farmer-seedsmen from whom we have received our most productive germplasm, people like James Reid (Reid Yellow Dent) and Issac Hershey (Lancaster Sure-Crop). Forrest Troyer wrote an excellent review article on these OP breeders "Background of U.S. Hybrid Corn" (Crop Science 39:601-626) In summary he wrote "Adaptation is everything - the sole driving force of evolutionary biology. Better adaptation to the environment means higher yielding corn. U.S. corn breeding is accelerated evolution to adapt a tropical crop to a temperate environment." Dale PS: If anyone is interested in development of OP supersweets with good seed vigor, I would be happy to share my germplasm with you and cooperate in breeding. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 12:42:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22152 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04313 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:06:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04302 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:06:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Twittman@aol.com Received: from Twittman@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 7XGOa29634 (3998) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.ac0cac93.254b1f89@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:04:25 EDT Subject: Fwd: Temperature Resistant E.coli To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.ac0cac93.254b1f89_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 --part1_0.ac0cac93.254b1f89_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks, Any help on this would be appreciated. Thank you, Thomas Wittman --part1_0.ac0cac93.254b1f89_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za05.mail.aol.com (v62.10) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:55:23 2000 Received: from mail.cruzio.com (mail.cruzio.com [208.226.92.37]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (v62.10) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:55:09 2000 Received: from [165.227.129.94] (sa-165-227-129-94.cruzio.com [165.227.129.94]) by mail.cruzio.com with ESMTP id FAA14256 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:55:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: sambo@mail.cruzio.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:54:12 -0700 To: twittman@aol.com From: Sam Earnshaw Subject: Temperature Resistant E.coli Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From: "Porter, Christy" >To: compost@compostingcouncil.org >Cc: "Sam Earnshaw (E-mail)" >Subject: Temperature Resistant E.coli >Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:47:45 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Have any of you heard of a new strain of E.coli that is not killed by >131 >degree composting? There's a farmer in the Santa Cruz, California, area who >is being sued by a neighbor who claims that the spreading of compost is >causing E. coli contamination of the wells. The neighbor is quoting an >article by the infamous Dennis Avery. Any help would be greatly >appreciated. Has anyone seen this article? > > >Christy Porter >Organic Materials Outreach Coordinator >California Integrated Waste Management Board >8800 Cal Center Drive, MS 22 >Sacramento, CA 95826 >(916) 255-2410 > --part1_0.ac0cac93.254b1f89_boundary-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 12:46:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22208 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03101 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:05:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03015 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01291 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EP4ZHBCE; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:59:20 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:41:59 -0700 Subject: range chickens (was RE: free range eggs) Message-ID: <19991029.084307.3502.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,12,20,25,33-35 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Mike asked about wildlife and dogs and cats as danger to chickens: One of my books says chicks are of interest to cats only after they fledge until they are a few months old. My hunting cat (who can take a cotton tail nearly her size) is leery of the chickens (but she is timid of anything she doesn't understand.) On the other hand, our three dogs got into the chicken yard and eliminated 6 or the 12 birds in the few minutes it took me to feed our neighbor's cats (5 of the 6 survivors managed to get through or over the fence into garden, drive, or wild area). I have the chicken yard fenced in a dog/coyote proof fence (the gate the dogs got through is now securely bolted). When we moved here, my neighbor insisted hawks and owls and coyotes would get our cats within a few weeks. Same for any chickens. So far this hasn't been a problem except for our own dogs. However, unless you have secure sleeping quarters for the chickens and close them up over night, you might have a lot more problems. Depending on the wildlife in your area, your defenses might have to be adjusted; back on the farm in Kansas, our defenses were constantly challenged by opossums, raccoons, weasels (they can get through a very small opening), skunks, and probably a few other things I've forgotten. Here in southeast AZ, I have a friend who lost lots of chickens to a bob cat. We have a small pen attached to the chicken house with a chicken-sized door into it for times when we won't be around at dark to close them up. The chickens hate the confinement and I try to avoid having to use it, but it also worked as a nursery for young chicks this spring. About hawks, my chickens crouch under trees when they spot a hawk (their color camouflages them nicely), but once a hot air balloon drifted over. The dogs were going berserk barking at it but the chickens ignored it until its shadow passed over them. There was an enormous commotion of panicky skwaks, cackles, flapping of wings, etc as they ran for cover. >From the balloon, I heard one distinct question: "Are those flamingos?" They are Rhode Island Red's, which are reddish brown, hardly the pink associated with race-track flamingos! Good luck if you try chickens. Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Oct 29 13:30:24 1999 -0400 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23066 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mindspring.com (user-2ivf01f.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.128.47]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04421 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3819DA55.D1C875AF@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:33:09 -0400 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Reply-To: lflondon@mindspring.com Organization: InterGarden X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: Sustainable Apple Growing in Illinois Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 From: "S. K. Kurtural" Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture Subject: Re: Landcare in Australia Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:25:23 -0500 Organization: Souhtern Illinois University Lines: 11 Message-ID: <7hnj0u$vuo$1@saluki-news.it.siu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: port6.aixdialin.siu.edu X-Trace: saluki-news.it.siu.edu 926895966 32728 131.230.253.6 (16 May 1999 23:06:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: netnews@siu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 May 1999 23:06:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Xref: wnb1 alt.sustainable.agriculture:14812 I am involved ina research project which is titled 'Sustainable Apple Growing in Illinois'. I don't know how much of pomology is important to your project but we have some good ideas on revive communities that lost their livelihood due to the closure of coal mines down here (or up here I should say) with the help of planting of high management apple orchards. We would like to exchange some ideas with you all. S.K. -- Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm http://metalab.unc.edu /intergarden/orgfarm /intergarden /permaculture /ecolandtech lflondon@mindspring.com london@metalab.unc.edu From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 13:59:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23587 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13412 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:12:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp1.a2000.nl (farida.a2000.nl [62.108.1.19]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13312 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node11e64.a2000.nl ([24.132.30.100] helo=zap.a2000.nl) by smtp1.a2000.nl with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #4) id 11hFWf-0001qf-00; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:09:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3819D967.CD770FDF@zap.a2000.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:29:12 +0200 From: wytze X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Nigh CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: rediscovery of old way of plant breeding References: <3.0.1.32.19991029103155.00728ea8@mail.internet.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Dear Ronald Nigh, I will try to connect mr. van Mansvelt and than come back to it. As far as I understand there is not such use of crossing but rather growing of sister lines and selecting them further. I will let you know when I talked to someone involved in the research. Wytze Ronald Nigh wrote: > Dear SANET and Wytze de Lange > > Thank you for this interesting post, Wytse. Indeed, the subject is so > important that I think it would be helpful if you could clarify some of the > points that I don't quite understand. > > What exactly does "crossing sister lines" involve in practical terms? > > With corn crossing is fairly easy, but how does it work with wheat? > > What exactly is the nature of Temirbikova's research? > > There is precious little research on this issue. I just saw a presentation > of fascinating results by Hugo Perales, Mexican agronomist, who found that > traditional farmers in Central Mexico are able to maintain adapted races of > corn that perform as well or outperform available hybrids. Farmers freely > use the hybrids when they work, but for the most part, the traditionally > maintained varieties do just as well (including by responding to chemical > fertilizer and irrigations etc.) and in some conditions consistently > outperfom hybrids. Two factors maintain these varieties: the incredibile > reserve of genetic variety farmers possess and conserve (with know help > from anybody) and the continual experimentation and selections by farmers > from that variety (one again, with no support). Mexican government ag > policy has, for decades, actively discouraged this activity among farmers. > > There is a lot of hype about 'modern plant breeding' and now > 'biotechnology' as being what has 'fed the world' over the past decades as > we grew to 6 billion. But it seems to me this activity by farmers that has > maintained the viability of our crops all over the world is far more > important to our food security, past and future, than any systematic > breeding or genetic engineering ever has or will be. In fact, the concern > now is that GE, seed patents and such might threaten this traditional > source of crop productitivity. How much of our basic crop production do we > really owe to modern plant breeders and how much do we owe to farmers? I > think giving the plant breeders credit for 10 per cent of it would be > generous. Would it be possible to come up with quantitative estimate? > > Not that we don't appreciate them! I hope modern plant breeders will > continue to ply their trade. But the coroporate hype has blown their > contribution way out of proportion and detoured our attention from the > truly vital process we should be concerned about: in situ conservation and > selection by farmers. This is the heart of agricultural sustainability. > > Ronald Nigh > Dana, A.C. > Mexico, D.F. & San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas > Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) > 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) > danamex@mail.internet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 14:26:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24017 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03131 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:41:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03086 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FKD00BXVL1FKD@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:36:26 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Communicating about biotech In-reply-to: <3818F316.18B99D9C@epix.net> To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" References: <3818F316.18B99D9C@epix.net> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 Howdy, all-- Jim found and shared this: >Ignorance imperils future of agriculture > >Farmers are in fight or flee mode; they are confused, scared and angry, >observed Ed Shonsey, the president and CEO of Novartis Seeds, Thursday >in an Iowa speech. "And you know what bothers them the most?" he asked. >"It's not the government. Or the weather. Or even the seed companies. >What has farmers upset -- so upset their eternal optimism is in serious >danger of becoming permanent pessimism -- is ignorance. Ignorance. >Ignorance on the part of a group of people, who, in the name of >protecting the environment, have imperiled the near-term future of >agricultural >biotechnology." He makes an impassioned case for the science behind, >and the potentially great benefits of biotechnology. Read the full text of >his speech here: The Biotech CEO Who Speaks for Farmers. Wow, scary; sounds like a Halloween movie release. In my view, CEO Ed's speech is a highly predictable response, not only content-wise (this kind of speech goes back to at least the 19th century technical press around innovations like electricity), but rhetorically. I see him using two common rhetorical methods whereby the powerful try to discredit those who disagree with them. In brief they try to recast the communication into something they control, when they feel threatened on that front. Here's how it works: Novartis and other biotech companies are trying to argue that biotech is good good good good simply all-American scientific good goodie goodness. Some are getting sucked into the Cold War of Words and responding by saying, no no no, it's bad baddy baddness. From where I'm sitting, though, it appears many people are taking a more complex approach: "Wait, it's not as simple as good versus bad...there are many shades of grey and colors as well between those two poles...many things we don't know...we don't even know what questions to ask, never mind what the answers are." And interestingly enough, to me, many of the most vocal opponents of GMOs are *right there.* Yeah, they think it's bad, but they're raising incredibly complex and perceptive challenges to corporate PR about GE--challenges on the fronts of biology, ecology, economics, morality, ethics, democratic government, and more. So one would expect that the corporations would try to re-impose their binary, black-white, good-evil, for-agin thought structures on the discourse. Get things simple and controllable again. PR and advertising are about encapsulating idiotically simple messages in sugared niblets that wedge themselves in your brain like prions. Once people start thinking, they start paying less attention to PR and advertising. I.e., the communications lifeblood of the corporate structure. Or they view those messages from a stance that doesn't enhance the corporations' marketing efforts. (Have you all seen the fabulous Canadian magazine, /AdBusters/?) What is one of the most tried-and-true rhetorical ways to reinforce a binary discourse, when things threaten to get complicated by multi-hued, multi-textured reality? Projection. For instance, CEO Ed says *farmers*--who in my experience are asking some of the most complex, deep, and probing questions about this technology--are having "fight or flee" (binary) responses. Optimism vs. pessimism. Ignorance vs. knowledge. Not CEO Ed's corporation. Oh no...not them. Farmers. Not only that, *the farmers* are confused, scared, and angry (obviously emotional, and we all know what THAT means). Whereas CEO Ed is "impassioned" in favor of science. He has no confusion, fear, or anger about the fact that his expensive pin-striped butt is on the line to sell investors and the public on a technology that's getting more suspect by the hour, that his company exists to sell. Oh, no; he's rational, and when he gets emotional, it's in favor of rationality. Farmers get used a lot this way, in this society. Silver screens onto which people and organizations project their own fears, goals, desires, hopes, hatreds, biases, etc. What's sad is that guys like CEO Ed and his Marketing Mavens generally have no incentive to stretch themselves to think and communicate in any other way. This is part of their privilege. The world must come around to their way of thinking--impoverishing higher-order thinking and analysis because THEY SAY SO. This is a variation on the Engineer Mentality issue that got brought up here recently, complete with a joke involving a sexually deviant naked woman. I bit my tongue on that, in part because I believe "Engineer Mentality" is code for "UberMale thinking," and this joke seemed to demonstrate that without requiring comment. By the way....it was Darth Cheezer--a corporate engineer and a boy--who observed this connection between gender and technocratic thinking/communication. Quite some years ago now. In observing his and my communications these past 10 years, and more recently, and in watching him as he has worked to grow into a more complex, skilled communicator...I've concluded he's absolutely right. And who better than a boy to observe how boys are taught to communicate???? But I've been told repeatedly that looking at gender and communication has nothing to do with sustainable ag. Just ask Wendell Berry. :^) peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If there was a law they was workin' with, maybe we could take it, but it ain't the law. They're workin' away our spirits, tryin' to make us cringe and crawl, takin' away our decency. --Tom Joad To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 14:27:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24086 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03165 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:42:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03136 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FKD00BXVL1FKD@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:37:12 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Beef wars/England, France To: SANET-mg Cc: iffs@nal.usda.gov Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1270903800==_ma============" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 --============_-1270903800==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Howdy, all-- Darth Cheezer passed this item along. From today's SF Gate/SF Chronicle, an AP story highlighting some cultural aspects of key food safety issues. As Glenn repeatedly reminds us, bless his persistent boots, it's in the market that these issues ultimately get played out. When I read stuff like this, it helps me understand why so many people fled to the New World as soon as they could--to escape the weight of centuries-long cultural sniping like the following. Only to translate it into things like the (now defunct) Mets-Cubs rivalry, or the hatred of drivers who come from adjoining states. :^) Again, it's interesting that there's this strong focus on some French farmers' use of sewage as fodder...while ignoring the Dutch, Belgian, and German examples. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ French and British at war again: Whose beef is dirtier? MAUREEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer Friday, October 29, 1999 Breaking News Sections (10-29) 01:16 EDT LONDON (AP) -- It may not rank with the battles of Agincourt or Waterloo, but it's war. At least that's what the tabloids say. Britain and France, those centuries-old enemies and allies, are at it again -- this time not over dynasties and domain, but over who produces the dirtiest, most unhygienic and dangerous-to-eat beef. The dispute promises to be the most serious since, well, since the issue was cheap British lamb in the '80s. Or perhaps since the historic 1994 opening of the undersea Channel Tunnel that physically linked Britain with France for the first time -- ushering in a new era of Anglo-French misunderstandings. This latest skirmish, while it began over beef, has spread to other products as tempers flare higher and higher. French farmers have lit burning barricades in front of British trucks at the tunnel entrance. ``England is an island. It is easier to blockade than the continent,'' declared farmers' leader Luc Guyau. A British aristocrat with an ancient title, Lord Cranborne, has banned French goods from the tourist shop on his family estate, and the agriculture minister is denying himself French delicacies. The Daily Star tabloid is running a ``Just Say Non'' campaign, urging Britons to drink Californian, Bulgarian, Australian or anyone, but anyone, else's wine. ``The Frogs may have started it, but it's hard to know which side of the Channel is behaving worse,'' Polly Toynbee wrote in London's upmarket, pro-European Guardian newspaper. And that's about as liberal and even-handed as it gets. The beef war began in August -- or rather entered a new, more emotional phase -- when France refused to join the rest of Britain's partners in the 15-nation European Union in lifting a ban on British beef. The ban was imposed in 1996 because of an outbreak of bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or mad cow disease, which researchers linked to a new strain of the fatal human brain ailment Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease. France claims to have its own scientific evidence that British beef is still unsafe. Having spent millions cleaning up its act, Britain has made strong objections, laced with suspicions that the French are protecting their own farmers. An EU scientific committee began meeting Thursday in Brussels, Belgium, to examine the French claim. Officials said they expected a ruling Friday. Last week, in the sweetest of revenge for the British, an EU report accused French rendering plants of using sewage in livestock feed. London-based tabloids went wild. ``Why oui hate 'em,'' cried the Daily Star, listing 20 reasons to dislike the French. The top-selling Sun double-printed its front page Thursday, once in English, once in French with the headline over a burning barricade: ``We don't want war but France is wrong.'' Britain's opposition Conservative Party wants an immediate ban on imports of French meat. But for Labor Prime Minister Tony Blair, seeking to smooth over traditional British edginess with the Continentals, it's proving a lot more difficult. Braving accusations of being spineless, Blair said that, despite the sewage report, the EU had ruled French meat is not a danger to health and that any ban would therefore be illegal. His position sounded a shade tame this week in the tumult of shouting Tory legislators in the House of Commons. As ever, this dispute is tinged both with historic overtones and the near-certainty that after it's over, something else will crop up. And though it's deadly serious, with livelihoods, free trade and the British liking for French cuisine at stake, some tongues are firmly in cheeks. The Daily Star offered this among its reasons for hating the French: ``Speak to them in fluent, faultless French which you've painstakingly studied for three years at night school, and they will stare at you blankly as if you are a mound of smoldering donkey dung.'' --============_-1270903800==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Howdy, all-- Darth Cheezer passed this item along. From today's SF Gate/SF Chronicle, an AP story highlighting some cultural aspects of key food safety issues. As Glenn repeatedly reminds us, bless his persistent boots, it's in the market that these issues ultimately get played out. When I read stuff like this, it helps me understand why so many people fled to the New World as soon as they could--to escape the weight of centuries-long cultural sniping like the following. Only to translate it into things like the (now defunct) Mets-Cubs rivalry, or the hatred of drivers who come from adjoining states. :^) Again, it's interesting that there's this strong focus on some French farmers' use of sewage as fodder...while ignoring the Dutch, Belgian, and German examples. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Times_New_RomanFrench and British at war again: Whose beef is dirtier? MAUREEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer Friday, October 29, 1999 Breaking News Sections (10-29) 01:16 EDT LONDON (AP) -- It may not rank with the battles of Agincourt or Waterloo, but it's war. At least that's what the tabloids say. Britain and France, those centuries-old enemies and allies, are at it again -- this time not over dynasties and domain, but over who produces the dirtiest, most unhygienic and dangerous-to-eat beef. The dispute promises to be the most serious since, well, since the issue was cheap British lamb in the '80s. Or perhaps since the historic 1994 opening of the undersea Channel Tunnel that physically linked Britain with France for the first time -- ushering in a new era of Anglo-French misunderstandings. This latest skirmish, while it began over beef, has spread to other products as tempers flare higher and higher. French farmers have lit burning barricades in front of British trucks at the tunnel entrance. ``England is an island. It is easier to blockade than the continent,'' declared farmers' leader Luc Guyau. A British aristocrat with an ancient title, Lord Cranborne, has banned French goods from the tourist shop on his family estate, and the agriculture minister is denying himself French delicacies. The Daily Star tabloid is running a ``Just Say Non'' campaign, urging Britons to drink Californian, Bulgarian, Australian or anyone, but anyone, else's wine. ``The Frogs may have started it, but it's hard to know which side of the Channel is behaving worse,'' Polly Toynbee wrote in London's upmarket, pro-European Guardian newspaper. And that's about as liberal and even-handed as it gets. The beef war began in August -- or rather entered a new, more emotional phase -- when France refused to join the rest of Britain's partners in the 15-nation European Union in lifting a ban on British beef. The ban was imposed in 1996 because of an outbreak of bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or mad cow disease, which researchers linked to a new strain of the fatal human brain ailment Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease. France claims to have its own scientific evidence that British beef is still unsafe. Having spent millions cleaning up its act, Britain has made strong objections, laced with suspicions that the French are protecting their own farmers. An EU scientific committee began meeting Thursday in Brussels, Belgium, to examine the French claim. Officials said they expected a ruling Friday. Last week, in the sweetest of revenge for the British, an EU report accused French rendering plants of using sewage in livestock feed. London-based tabloids went wild. ``Why oui hate 'em,'' cried the Daily Star, listing 20 reasons to dislike the French. The top-selling Sun double-printed its front page Thursday, once in English, once in French with the headline over a burning barricade: ``We don't want war but France is wrong.'' Britain's opposition Conservative Party wants an immediate ban on imports of French meat. But for Labor Prime Minister Tony Blair, seeking to smooth over traditional British edginess with the Continentals, it's proving a lot more difficult. Braving accusations of being spineless, Blair said that, despite the sewage report, the EU had ruled French meat is not a danger to health and that any ban would therefore be illegal. His position sounded a shade tame this week in the tumult of shouting Tory legislators in the House of Commons. As ever, this dispute is tinged both with historic overtones and the near-certainty that after it's over, something else will crop up. And though it's deadly serious, with livelihoods, free trade and the British liking for French cuisine at stake, some tongues are firmly in cheeks. The Daily Star offered this among its reasons for hating the French: ``Speak to them in fluent, faultless French which you've painstakingly studied for three years at night school, and they will stare at you blankly as if you are a mound of smoldering donkey dung.'' --============_-1270903800==_ma============-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 15:14:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24879 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07057 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07035 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24210; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22516; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:35:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:34:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: mike richardson cc: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: no-till chemical use In-Reply-To: <3819A43F.76778695@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, mike richardson wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Lynne Carpenter-Boggs wrote: > > > No-till is a wonderful thing, and even with the increased herbicide > > input it is a much more productive and environment-friendly system > > than currently practiced in many places. > > London replied: "How is increased herbicide use/acre more > environment-friendly?" > > My reply: No-till is not the be all - end all of environmentally sound > farming. However, it certainly can have tremendous environmental > benefits, compared to conventional farming (deep plowing, disking, > cultivating, etc.) Yes, generally more chemical amounts are used. The conventional farming methods you described are, for the most part, and in only certain specific situations environmentally unfriendly and are at worst temporary in nature. Chemical use, worse yet, increased chemical use is long lasting, semi-permanent and in some cases close to being permanent when you consider the loss of plant/animal/microorganism diversity that invariably results. The risk to human health, farmers, FARM WORKERS, and consumers alike is undeniable and potentially long-term. > However, since the killed vegetation reduces soil erosion to near zero > (major benefit), absorbs chemicals, slows surface water movement, > reduces fertilizer loss, enhances water movement into the soil profile, > etc. then there is less chemical running off into surface waters. As > for chemical leaching into the ground water, that can be a problem with > some chemicals used in no-till and conventional tillage (atrizine types > for instance). However, many chemicals do break down while in the soil, > so as they are moving through the soil they tend to degrade. No-till > also enhances soil tilth, reduces fossile fuel use (thereby reducing air > pollution and global warming), lowers labor and equipment costs to the > farmer, and has been proven to maintain or even increase yields. > > No-till farming: Environmental panacea? Nope. Environmentally > friendly? Yep. Thanks for the interesting description of (chem no-till but you haven't convinced me. There are conventional farms in my immediate neighborhood, one of the best is a dairy farm where the owner spreads ALL his manure on his land, sheet composts it and tills it (and weeds) under with a Soil Saver (a chisel plow and a Yeomans (Keyline System) plow will work as well but both are smaller implements). He uses this tillage tool exclusively and has very little weed problem, with very little herbiocide use, and has rich friable loamy soil to be proud of. Of course if a farmer is trying to get rich farming marginal land he may, unless he has been enlightened about natural methods (read a little Alan Chadwick about improving poor land - http://metalab.unc.edu/london/pc/Alan.Chadwick/), may in desperation resort to chemical use - but why farm marginal land? The key to weed control is effective tillage and cover cropping in a system of rotating fallow land with land in production with grazed land. Initial tillage with a soil saver could be followed with light weed-removal tillage followed by 1) cover-crop/till-under-covercrop/plant-cash-crop or 2) cover-crop/let-land-lay-fallow/use-soil-saver/plant-cash-crop. A system using either of the above methods can be followed by successive, incremental, plantings of crops that are increasingly intolerant of competition with other plants, i.e. "weeds". IOW following 1) or 2) plant lespedeza, rye grain, vetch or any number of other cover crops; follow these with sudex or milo, canola or hemp, more rye, tall sweet clover; follow these with soybean and/or millet, corn, wheat or sesame or barley; followed with a legume soil builder/ hay crop, followed by more grain, beans or vegetables. Some root crops like mangel, beets or carrots, daikon could be integrated effectively into this system, possibly heavy seed-bearers and other persistent crops like tall sweet clover and comfrey could be integrated effectively without adding to the weedseed bank. I'll continue to resist sanet-mg being turned into a handy podium for those inclined to rationalize the use of agrichemicals, even though the term sustainable agriculture was long ago co-opted by that crowd. Roundup use=sustainable farming, indeed! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 15:58:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25813 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29367 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:12:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA29300 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.171.125.93] ([128.171.125.93]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373606(8)>; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:10:07 -1000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991029091646.007e2a90@pop-server.hawaii.edu> X-Sender: mikerobo@pop-server.hawaii.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:16:46 -1000 To: SANET From: Michael Robotham Subject: Courses/trainings on FSR at US/Canadian universities Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 Hello SANET subscribers, In order to improve a paper we are revising on the future of farming systems research and extension (FSR/E) in the US and Canada, Hal McArthur and I am looking for information on courses taught or training programs regularly conducted at US and Canadian universities that include FSR theories and methodologies. If you are (or have been) involved in such a course or training program, could you send me some basic information including: Title of the course/training Instructor(s) When did it start (year) How often is it taught/conducted Typical mix of students (Graduate/undergraduate/combination) Typical number of students What is the role of FSR in the course (primary focus, one of several components, mentioned but not covered in any depth, etc.) Any other information you could provide that would help us better understand the goals, structure and expected outcomes of your course/training. For courses/trainings that are no longer offered, could you provide the last year of the course/training and a brief comment on why it was discontinued. Please reply directly to me, Michael Robotham, at mikerobo@hawaii.edu. I will gladly post a summary of the results to the list or send them directly to others who are interested. Please contact me if you would like additional information on the goals and structure of our analysis or would like a copy of the final paper. Thank you for your help. If you know of others who are involved in courses and/or trainings that include FSR, please pass along this message. Sincerely, Michael Robotham PS My apologies for cross-postings --------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Robotham, Ph. D. Phone: (808) 956-6835 (office) Education Specialist (808) 956-2617 (workroom) Agronomy and Soil Science Fax: (808) 956-6539 University of Hawaii at Manoa Email: mikerobo@hawaii.edu 1910 East-West Road Home Page: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~mikerobo Honolulu, HI 96822 USA ...none but ourselves can free our minds (Bob Marley--Redemption Song) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 16:21:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26317 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:49:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22900 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FKD00B41QXSR2@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:44:47 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Cryptosporidiosis/petting zoos To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest those of you who have petting zoos. p m ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CRYPTOSPORIDIOSIS, HUMAN - NEW ZEALAND (03) ******************************************* A ProMED post Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 05:22:10 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: New Zealand News from The Press, 26 Oct 1999 [An outbreak of cryptosporidiosis] in Hawke's Bay is alarming health officials. Sixty-seven cases have been reported this year compared with eight at the same time last year. Healthcare Hawke's Bay medical officer of health, Caroline McElnay, said 12 cases had been reported for October compared with three in August and nine in September. Health officials blamed the time of year and children feeding animals for the outbreak. The disease, which caused "bloody diarrhoea" and terrible stomach pain, left people feeling generally unwell, Dr McElnay said. Most of the cases since September were young people under 15, but people of all ages could be affected. "At this time of year, children could become infected after handling pet lambs and calves, as animals often carried cryptosporidium cysts in their faeces," Dr McElnay said. The disease was easily spread, so it was essential that people preparing food washed their hands thoroughly, she said. "People who have diarrhoea must stay out of the kitchen." In past outbreaks, public swimming pools had been targeted as potential carriers of the cryptosporidium cysts. There was no evidence that this had happened this time, as most of the cases appeared to be unrelated, Dr McElnay said. People who have had diarrhoea should not swim in a public pool until two weeks after having diarrhoea. Dr McElnay urged people with symptoms to see a doctor so the public health unit could isolate the cause to stop it spreading. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 16:25:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26405 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27377 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:55:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27317 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06377 for ; Fri,