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Re: Bill Mollison copyright statement
- To: "permaculture" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
- Subject: Re: Bill Mollison copyright statement
- From: "Kent Jared" <email@example.com>
- Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:07:33 -0400
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- Organization: Kentel
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- Reply-to: "permaculture" <email@example.com>
Could you tell me if I could find present texts that cover
the extremes of this argument?
Would you know of any Permaculture books that talk closer to the side of
cities and how they suggest to integrate the process of Permaculture in the
large city areas.
Reason why? I have a real time situation at hand that is in
need of a book of this nature. I have shared the book of PERMACULTURE with a
native rain forest person and after teaching her English. She comes to me
with hours of debate about the differences in the book. Note she only has a
English education, no sciences what so ever! So I am married to this girl
now and brought her to several different places in the world. Only to find
that due to her ability to see nature as she does so easily, seems to give
her an advantage in the rural planing of the concept of Permaculture. So now
she has seen a huge city and her main desire is to show and tell me of what
she thinks is missing in the link between permaculture and the city! there
has been some good input here. Also when I took her to Bermuda the island so
sensitive to all around it. She offered endless suggestions to the locals
there which surprised many . Then continued to question about what the
people on such a little island have done to manage to control there
environment. Bermuda is very small and there is an average of sixty thousand
people living there. Not including the mad tourist season too! I see Bermuda
quite advanced in city permaculture have you ever been there to see there
balance. I must admit this is like seeing a micro EARTH on earth. Even their
housing is very complex for fresh water collection, to add!
Just a thought to share Bermuda with you. It has a lot of
examples of Permaculture and the city. The history of the islands records
are great and the plants and animals that were tested there are well
recorded too. Even the Queen and several others used this island for this
purpose. And to accent the history the Americans used the island as a war
vessel too and it survived that too. It is a virtual nutshell of
permaculture. I believe that I could offer more contacts if needed since I
have a extreme knowledge of the area and the events that have taken place
there. It was the source of my desire to see the study of Permaculture. But
I never new what the term ment prior to being in Bermuda. But then I
transfered to Brazil and found a text called PERMACULTURE. Then I saw a
path, Hence forth to Ahoy!
Reverend Dr. Kent Jared
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Grayson + Fiona Campbell <firstname.lastname@example.org>
To: permaculture <email@example.com>
Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 4:30 AM
Subject: Re: Bill Mollison copyright statement
Good to hear from you again Skye.
> Hola a todos
> Obviously the section of the standard sylabus on clasical landscapes,
> specifically the part on coral island atolls is not only irrelevant to
> these mountain people, but more so, is so totally outside their realm of
> experience that the very concept of an ocean island is incomprehensible.
> So, can I work with these people in the name of Permaculture or not?? I
> am certainly not about to waste their time with coral atoll
> If not, then the previous comments about Pc being elitist are starting
> to sound very real. Can we only teach Pc to those with sufficient
> education, access to information (and maybe internet) and a wide
> experience of concepts???
> I have heard and read many Pc people claim Pc takes many of its
> concepts/inspiration from nature - has anyone ever noticed that nature
> changes and evolves???? Are we prepared to also grow and evolve -
> Natural Succession is a basic premise of PC for me - lets try doing in
> our organisation as well as our gardens!!
I understand your concern regarding the classical landscape stuff Skye.
Sydney, in the city, we have an analogous situation.
First of all, there's a need in permaculture courses for an understanding of
environments and landscapes and their modifications by the process of
such as the heat island effect etc, as well as for an understanding of the
the city is situated in, it's climate and landforms.
Second, stuff about zones three and four, while still important to teach,
are of less
value in the city because all that people have in their homes is zones one
sometimes, zone two. In Sydney, there are a few remnant market gardens which
zone three systems.
Sydney is at present undergoing a building boom in apartment construction,
people are opting to live in medium density units, so this means that many
no zone one, or that their zone one will be a balcony garden, if their
What we say in our courses is that zone one may be some kilometres from zone
home, if it is an apartment or if, as is often the case, the person is
renting and is
not permitted to build a garden in their rented premises. In these
one becomes the nearest community garden. Now, I'm aware that some folk will
there is an energy cost in travelling to a community garden to obtain fresh
that's rather small compared to the energy, road congestion and pollution
railing or trucking the food in from the country.
I wonder how this modification to the permaculture zonal orthodoxy is
impacted by our
supposedly having to teach permaculture as per the syllabus provided by the
Permaculture Institute Australia and, as explained in his recent mailing,
which is the
intellectual property of Bill Mollison?
There is a valid argument, I believe, for developing an adapted permaculture
course for urban areas. The fact in Australia, as elsewhere, is that more
people are living in cities and, if the cities canot be made sustainable,
then it is
questionable that the rest of the country can be made sustainable.
An urban permaculture course content would retain all the ethics and
principles as, I
believe, they are universally applicable. However, there would be less focus
material and its replacement by material pertinent to the sustainable
cities and on how to adopt sustainable lifestyles in urban areas.
A number of PDC students have told me that the existing course is too rural
and content and, as they have no intention of moving to the country, more
urban living would make the course more relevant.
Skye, this gets to the final statement in your email, above, about 'growing
evolving'. Yes, I agree - permaculture has to take a clue from nature and
evolve in an analogous way. What we need, maybe, are bioregionally adapted
permaculture coursee (we already have some, I believe) - some for different
the country, some adapted to life in the cities.
What I'm talking about is not wholesale change of the design curse
adaption to local circumstances and needs.
PACIFIC EDGE PERMACULTURE
Russ Grayson and Fiona Campbell
PO Box 446, Kogarah NSW 2217 AUSTRALIA
Phone/ fax 02-9588 6931 (IDD-61+2+9588 6931)
PERMACULTURE/ COMMUNITY BASED ESD: permaculture education + Australian City
Community Gardens Network (NSW contact) + organic gardening training +
training (community waste minimisation training) + overseas development
project management services.
MEDIA: journalism/ photojournalism (global development; environment and
social change; sustainable community development) + publication design +
> Skye - Apdo # 391, Patzcuaro, Michoacan, CP. 61600 México.
> fax (52) 01 (434) 24743
> Profesor y diseñador en Permacultura
> Director del Instituto de Permacultura de México A.C.
> Talleres de desarrollo humano, planeación participativa y
> economía comunitaria.
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